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| yamahata | hello | 05:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| s3wong | hello | 05:01 |
| natarajk | hi | 05:01 |
| yamahata | #startmeeting servicevm-device-manager | 05:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 28 05:02:10 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is yamahata. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 05:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 05:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: servicevm-device-manager)" | 05:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'servicevm_device_manager' | 05:02 |
| yamahata | bob doesn't seem here... | 05:02 |
| yamahata | anyway | 05:02 |
| yamahata | #topic Announcement | 05:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcement (Meeting topic: servicevm-device-manager)" | 05:03 | |
| yamahata | #info neutron session schedule is announce | 05:03 |
| yamahata | #link http://kilodesignsummit.sched.org/overview/type/neutron#.VE7A73WUd1y | 05:03 |
| yamahata | There is a session for LT. | 05:03 |
| yamahata | LT poll page is created | 05:03 |
| s3wong | tacker will be discussed (hopefully) here: http://kilodesignsummit.sched.org/event/8a0b7c1d64883c08286e4446e163f1a6#.VE8jjJPF9j4 | 05:03 |
| yamahata | #link https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/RLTPBY6 | 05:03 |
| s3wong | #link http://kilodesignsummit.sched.org/event/8a0b7c1d64883c08286e4446e163f1a6#.VE8jjJPF9j4 | 05:04 |
| yamahata | s3wong: thanks for link. | 05:04 |
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| s3wong | how does tacker affect Neutron advanced services? and how will advanced services' inevitable spinning out affect tacker? | 05:04 |
| yamahata | #link http://kilodesignsummit.sched.org/event/8a0b7c1d64883c08286e4446e163f1a6#.VE8jjJPF9j4 Advanced Services Spin Out servicevm project seems also subject to discuss | 05:04 |
| s3wong | I think those are some discussion points we need to prepare before that session | 05:05 |
| yamahata | s3wong: +1 | 05:05 |
| yamahata | Let's discuss at open discussion. | 05:05 |
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| s3wong | yamahata: sure | 05:06 |
| yamahata | any other to annouce? | 05:06 |
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| yamahata | okay, let's move on | 05:07 |
| yamahata | #topic Action Items from the last week | 05:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action Items from the last week (Meeting topic: servicevm-device-manager)" | 05:07 | |
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| yamahata | I created poll page for servicevm time slot poll. | 05:08 |
| yamahata | and announce it on ML | 05:08 |
| yamahata | The current best candidate seems Tue. | 05:08 |
| yamahata | Given Advanced service spin out session is Thursday, November 6 • 11:50 - 12:30, the lunch after the session is also good candidate. | 05:09 |
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| yamahata | Maybe we can have more than one meeting. | 05:09 |
| natarajk | thursday sounds better for me | 05:10 |
| s3wong | yamahata: Tuesday @12:05pm I need to attend the Group-based-policy design session (as does several people who care about services) | 05:10 |
| yamahata | Okay, I revised the page. Thursday Lunch time is best. | 05:11 |
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| yamahata | Let's schedule it on Thu 6 1:15 for now. | 05:12 |
| yamahata | If it conflicts with NFV or something, rethink at that time. | 05:12 |
| s3wong | yamahata: right after the advanced service spin-off session? | 05:12 |
| yamahata | #info servicevm BoF on Thursday 6 1:15pm- | 05:12 |
| s3wong | yamahata: trying to catch those that are interested in continuing the conversation? :-) | 05:13 |
| yamahata | s3wong: Yes. So that we can catch other candidate hopefully | 05:13 |
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| yamahata | Do we want to have another BoF before the session? | 05:14 |
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| s3wong | yamahata: perhaps we want to do some cross-project stuff with NFV (Tuesday has a lot of cross-project workshop) | 05:15 |
| s3wong | ? | 05:15 |
| s3wong | yamahata: though at this point I haven't found anything on NFV actually having work on project (other than proposing stuff) | 05:16 |
| s3wong | yamahata: another possibility is to work with Neutron advanced services folks on "cross-project" session to see how we can create a common framework | 05:16 |
| yamahata | s3wong: sounds good idea. | 05:17 |
| yamahata | At this point, I don't see which slot for cross project is NFV-related. | 05:17 |
| yamahata | Probably we will recognize it there. | 05:18 |
| yamahata | s3wong: I think at least VLAN trunking is driven as NFV requirement | 05:18 |
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| yamahata | we could arrange gathering ad-hoc way in Paris as usual. | 05:19 |
| s3wong | yamahata: definitely --- now closer into the summit, there was a lot of noise on the VLAN trunking piece | 05:19 |
| s3wong | mestery has made it one of Neutron Kilo priorities to gather requirements from NFV working grop | 05:20 |
| s3wong | group | 05:20 |
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| yamahata | we have 10min left. let's move on to discussion point | 05:21 |
| yamahata | #topic Open Discussion | 05:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: servicevm-device-manager)" | 05:21 | |
| Hareesh | yamahata: sorry a little late to this. have we agreed to a common time to meet in paris? what is the conclusion from the doodle? | 05:21 |
| yamahata | Hareesh: For now it's planned on Thu 6 1:15 | 05:21 |
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| s3wong | yamahata: for open discussion, I would advocate reading the Neutron meeting log from today: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2014/networking.2014-10-27-21.01.log.html | 05:22 |
| yamahata | After the session of Advanced Services Spin Out | 05:22 |
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| yamahata | http://kilodesignsummit.sched.org/event/8a0b7c1d64883c08286e4446e163f1a6#.VE8jxXWUd1x | 05:22 |
| s3wong | some discussion on advanced services spinoff | 05:22 |
| yamahata | servicevm stuff would be also discussed, so we can catch related people. | 05:22 |
| Hareesh | yamahata: thanks | 05:22 |
| yamahata | #action yamahata put meeting schedule at wiki and etherpad | 05:23 |
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| s3wong | Our good friend from LBaaS side, dougwig, also mentioned something about having common framework for service VM (which the LBaaS is working on their own VM mgmt framework in Octavia) | 05:23 |
| yamahata | s3wong: cool. | 05:23 |
| dougwig | my ears are burning. | 05:23 |
| * s3wong thinks dougwig is really in Hawaii instead of Central timezone | 05:24 | |
| yamahata | My current thinking is that to create new project and to have other project use it would be difficult. | 05:24 |
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| yamahata | As a first tiny step, small library based on the current CSR1kv will be created. and put it in Neutron. | 05:24 |
| yamahata | In fact CSR1kv routervm code is already there. | 05:25 |
| s3wong | yamahata: so the one item that everyone agrees on w.r.t. advanced service spinoff is that L3/routers is NOT service | 05:25 |
| yamahata | So just cleanup/refactor it and move it common place | 05:25 |
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| s3wong | Neutron will at least maintain the responsibility of L2/L3 plumbing | 05:25 |
| yamahata | s3wong: Does it mean l3 router will remain in Neutron? | 05:26 |
| s3wong | yamahata: current discussion seems to point that way | 05:26 |
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| dougwig | i believe it will, along with dhcp services. | 05:26 |
| yamahata | s3wong: I see. | 05:26 |
| s3wong | L2/3 in Neutron, L4+ may (likely will) get the spinoff | 05:27 |
| yamahata | I see. | 05:27 |
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| dougwig | i would bet that a few l4 exceptions will be made for nova-network like things, like dhcp. | 05:28 |
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| yamahata | Once common library in Neutron is proved useuful, the code further can be moved from Neutron to Oslo. | 05:28 |
| yamahata | (Or its own rep.) | 05:28 |
| s3wong | yamahata: I think it is good to reach out to various advanced service folks and see if tacker can help --- given how frustrating service insertion has been, perhaps we can roll them into tacker as well | 05:29 |
| s3wong | s/them/that | 05:29 |
| yamahata | s3wong: That's very great. | 05:29 |
| Hareesh | +1 | 05:30 |
| dougwig | it's probably worth having lbaas and tacker meet next week; we might be a good first use case. we have some members that don't want the risk of outside involvement getting in the way of delivery, but i think it's worth a conversation. | 05:30 |
| yamahata | I suppose those people would like to try just simple library which calls nova. then try to tacker or something. | 05:30 |
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| s3wong | yamahata: got to know the requirements though --- so far, insertion "into the router" is something that may require some additional Neutron APIs | 05:31 |
| s3wong | dougwig: +1 --- would like to see if there is common stuff we can do w.r.t. tacker now to aide Octavia delivery | 05:31 |
| yamahata | +1. good to know the requirement | 05:32 |
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| yamahata | Is LBaaS BOF or something planned? | 05:32 |
| yamahata | or Octavia BoF | 05:32 |
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| dougwig | BoF? | 05:33 |
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| yamahata | a sort of ad hoc meeting in addition to official design summit session. | 05:33 |
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| dougwig | we've talked about it, but nothing firm yet. there will be something. | 05:34 |
| s3wong | dougwig: we can find a cross-project session sometimes on Tuesday to have a cross-project session between Octavia and Tacker | 05:35 |
| dougwig | that sounds good. | 05:35 |
| dougwig | if anyone wants to look, start here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/octavia | 05:36 |
| yamahata | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/octavia | 05:36 |
| dougwig | the nova driver and network driver interfaces are the "service vm" stuff, and "amphora" is our term for the vm image (roman "container"). don't get me started on how long that name took the group to agree on. | 05:36 |
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| s3wong | dougwigL let me see how we can sign up the cross-project sessions on Tues | 05:37 |
| s3wong | s/dougwigL/dougwig | 05:38 |
| dougwig | or even a pod meeting on friday could also work. | 05:38 |
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| s3wong | since it is Octavia and Tacker, we can involve the service folks from Neutron also --- because it can be classified as "cross-project" :-) | 05:38 |
| dougwig | that might be easier to schedule. | 05:38 |
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| yamahata | ha ha | 05:38 |
| s3wong | dougwig: that is a good idea. since we would get some idea due to having been to the advanced service spinoff session | 05:39 |
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| s3wong | TBH, 40 minutes of adv. service spinoff discussion will likely lead to nowhere... | 05:39 |
| dougwig | yes, there is no way that is going to get resolved in 40 minutes. | 05:39 |
| s3wong | Oh well... | 05:40 |
| Hareesh | :) | 05:40 |
| s3wong | dougwig: anyway, let's connect on when/where to meet in Paris for advanced service folks | 05:40 |
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| dougwig | #action dougwig coordinate time for paris adv.services/tacker/lbaas meeting | 05:41 |
| dougwig | #action s3wong coordinate time for paris adv.services/tacker/lbaas meeting | 05:41 |
| s3wong | dougwig, yamahata: I will also try to work with SumitNaiksatam and SridarK to get them to join | 05:41 |
| yamahata | s3wong: sure. Firewall people. | 05:42 |
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| s3wong | dougwig, yamahata: let's hopefully get some concrete planning of work for Kilo (instead of stalling stuff for another cycle) | 05:42 |
| yamahata | s3wong: +1 definitively | 05:43 |
| s3wong | now that all our projects are on stackforge, we should be able to iterate quicker | 05:43 |
| yamahata | the discussion seems to conclude. any other topic? or can we close the meeting? | 05:45 |
| s3wong | yamahata: sounds good. See you next week! | 05:45 |
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| s3wong | dougwig: see you next week in Paris also! | 05:46 |
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| dougwig | looking forward to it! | 05:46 |
| yamahata | thank you. see you in Paris. | 05:46 |
| yamahata | #endmeeting | 05:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 05:46 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 28 05:46:42 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 05:46 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/servicevm_device_manager/2014/servicevm_device_manager.2014-10-28-05.02.html | 05:46 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/servicevm_device_manager/2014/servicevm_device_manager.2014-10-28-05.02.txt | 05:46 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/servicevm_device_manager/2014/servicevm_device_manager.2014-10-28-05.02.log.html | 05:46 |
| Hareesh | see you in paris | 05:46 |
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| edleafe | SO I'm guessing that there's no Gantt meeting today? | 15:05 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: oops, sorry... | 15:05 |
| jaypipes | #startmeeting gantt | 15:05 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 28 15:05:46 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jaypipes. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:05 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:05 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'gantt' | 15:05 |
| jaypipes | edleafe, PaulMurray, anybody else here for the scheduler meeting? | 15:06 |
| jgallard | hi! | 15:06 |
| jaypipes | jgallard: hi! :) | 15:06 |
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| edleafe | jgallard: o/ | 15:06 |
| jaypipes | #topic review of scheduler blueprints | 15:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "review of scheduler blueprints (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:06 | |
| jaypipes | so, one minute... | 15:08 |
| jaypipes | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/127609/ | 15:08 |
| jaypipes | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/127610/ | 15:09 |
| jaypipes | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/127612/ | 15:09 |
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| jaypipes | The above three need to have a second patch pushed that addresses some minor spec layout comments from johnthetubaguy | 15:09 |
| jaypipes | I will try to get to that today or tomorrow... been busy working on conference slide/session material :( | 15:10 |
| jaypipes | there are also blueprints that edleafe is involved in: | 15:10 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: mind linking your detach compute node frmo service BP? | 15:11 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: Busy? You?? | 15:11 |
| jaypipes | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/126895/ | 15:11 |
| jaypipes | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/126895/ <-- detach service from compute node | 15:11 |
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| jaypipes | and finally, there is the isolate scheduler DB blueprint: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/89893/ | 15:11 |
| jaypipes | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/89893/ | 15:11 |
| jaypipes | which really should be split up into aggregates and instance group handling blueprints. | 15:12 |
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| jaypipes | I've asked Sylvain to split that up, but I might just do that for him since he's on holiday and we're short on time. | 15:12 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: I can probably work on that | 15:13 |
| edleafe | s/probably// | 15:13 |
| jaypipes | I know that n0ano doesn't have confidence that we can get an etherpad together with a good amount of discussion topics *before* the summit, but I'd really like do that. | 15:13 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: split up the isolate db bp you mean? | 15:13 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: yes | 15:13 |
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| jaypipes | edleafe: that would be awesome if you could do that. ++ | 15:14 |
| edleafe | take a little off your plate | 15:14 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: really appreciate it. | 15:14 |
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| jaypipes | edleafe: I'm finishing up some slides for one of my talks this morning, and then I'll send an email out to the group cc'ing the ML with a link to the etherpad to start our discussion topics on. | 15:14 |
| edleafe | #action edleafe to handle BP split in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/89893/ | 15:15 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: other than that, I don't have much news other than to say I have been able to refactor a whole bunch of unit tests in the scheduler and RT in the last week or so, which should *hopefully* help with the blueprints involved in splitting out the scheduler. | 15:15 |
| jaypipes | thx edleafe | 15:15 |
| jaypipes | #topic open discussion | 15:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:16 | |
| jaypipes | anybody have anything to add? | 15:16 |
| jaypipes | #action jaypipes to send an update to ML including link to etherpad for summit discussion points. | 15:16 |
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| edleafe | <crickets> | 15:19 |
| jaypipes | heh | 15:19 |
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| jaypipes | OK, ending meeting. thx edleafe :) | 15:19 |
| jaypipes | #endmeeting | 15:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:19 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 28 15:19:49 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:19 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-10-28-15.05.html | 15:19 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-10-28-15.05.txt | 15:19 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-10-28-15.05.log.html | 15:19 |
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| VijayTripathi | Hello everyone | 16:11 |
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| boris-42 | #stratmeeting Rally | 17:03 |
| boris-42 | msdubov olkonami amaretskiy ping | 17:03 |
| amaretskiy | boris-42 hi | 17:04 |
| msdubov | boris-42, hi! | 17:04 |
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| olkonami | hi! | 17:05 |
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| tnurlygayanov | hi! | 17:06 |
| boris-42 | #startmeeting Rally | 17:07 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 28 17:07:02 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is boris-42. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:07 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:07 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'rally' | 17:07 |
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| boris-42 | #topic discuss DOCstring of benchmark scenarios + possible ways to auto generate doc samples | 17:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "discuss DOCstring of benchmark scenarios + possible ways to auto generate doc samples (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:07 | |
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| boris-42 | amaretskiy as you were interested in this | 17:07 |
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| rook | in | 17:07 |
| boris-42 | rook hi there | 17:07 |
| rook | hey | 17:07 |
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| boris-42 | amaretskiy so what was your idea? | 17:08 |
| amaretskiy | my idea is save samples in class properties or in method properties, not in docstrings | 17:08 |
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| amaretskiy | advantages: | 17:08 |
| amaretskiy | * no need to parse | 17:08 |
| amaretskiy | * easy to check | 17:08 |
| amaretskiy | * ready for using as templates | 17:08 |
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| boris-42 | msdubov ^ | 17:09 |
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| msdubov | amaretskiy, I definitely need some clarifications on this | 17:10 |
| msdubov | amaretskiy, How would you store it - as a whole string or split? | 17:10 |
| msdubov | amaretskiy, It would be great if you'd write up a small sample class | 17:10 |
| msdubov | amaretskiy, To illustrate your idea | 17:10 |
| tnurlygayanov | amaretskiy why we need this? you suggest to save 'help' messages and 'examples' in properties/methods instead of doc strings? | 17:10 |
| msdubov | amaretskiy, As of now, it's not obvious for me why this is going to be easier to parse | 17:10 |
| tnurlygayanov | doc string it is the property too. | 17:10 |
| msdubov | tnurlygayanov, +1 | 17:11 |
| amaretskiy | for example: | 17:11 |
| amaretskiy | class Foo(...): | 17:11 |
| amaretskiy | """ ... """ | 17:11 |
| amaretskiy | SAMPLE = """{ JSON }""" | 17:11 |
| amaretskiy | no need to parse | 17:12 |
| amaretskiy | easy to check/validate/etc... | 17:12 |
| msdubov | amaretskiy, Okay so we leave docstrings as is and just add these SAMPLE attributes? | 17:12 |
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| msdubov | amaretskiy, Okay, but SAMPLE is unique for the whole class | 17:12 |
| amaretskiy | yes | 17:12 |
| msdubov | amaretskiy, How would you store samples for each scenario? | 17:13 |
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| amaretskiy | if we need to add a sample for method, we can use 2 ways: | 17:13 |
| boris-42 | amaretskiy NO I dislike SAMPLE | 17:13 |
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| boris-42 | amaretskiy we were talking about decorator | 17:13 |
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| boris-42 | amaretskiy or adding to function field directly | 17:14 |
| boris-42 | amaretskiy as far as I remember | 17:14 |
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| amaretskiy | class FooScenario(...): | 17:14 |
| amaretskiy | def barScenario(...): ... | 17:14 |
| amaretskiy | barScenario_sample = """{JSON}""" # 1st way | 17:14 |
| amaretskiy | barScenario.SAMPLE = """{JSON}""" # 2nd way | 17:14 |
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| amaretskiy | yes, decorator is ok, but it seems to have extraordinary size | 17:15 |
| amaretskiy | so. 3rd way - decorator | 17:16 |
| amaretskiy | not docstring | 17:16 |
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| amaretskiy | as for me I would prefer 2nd way | 17:16 |
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| amaretskiy | same property name | 17:16 |
| amaretskiy | for all required objects | 17:16 |
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| msdubov | amaretskiy, I'm a bit worried about the code getting very huge... (SLOC) Although it will be of course easier for anyone to quickly understand how a particular scenario should be configured | 17:17 |
| msdubov | amaretskiy, boris-42 Maybe we could store only sample arguments, without the "runner"/"context" section? | 17:17 |
| msdubov | amaretskiy, To make it a bit shorter | 17:18 |
| msdubov | and then quickly compose a valid JSON sample out of that | 17:18 |
| boris-42 | msdubov but what about cases when it makes sense? | 17:18 |
| amaretskiy | not sure, everything should be explicit | 17:18 |
| msdubov | boris-42, You're right | 17:18 |
| msdubov | boris-42, amaretskiy I had an idea of storing the JSON samples in doc/sample/tasks, but adding a link to those files in the docstrings | 17:19 |
| amaretskiy | not sure - means - include complete data | 17:19 |
| boris-42 | msdubov wtf | 17:19 |
| msdubov | something like :sample: doc/sample/tasks | 17:19 |
| boris-42 | msdubov no idea was to generate task samples | 17:19 |
| msdubov | boris-42, Well we still can generate them1 | 17:19 |
| msdubov | ! | 17:19 |
| msdubov | in files | 17:19 |
| boris-42 | msdubov hm | 17:19 |
| msdubov | boris-42, I believe that JSON samples in files are easier to navigate | 17:20 |
| msdubov | than those in code | 17:20 |
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| msdubov | because they are stored in a neat compact way | 17:20 |
| boris-42 | msdubov there will be in files... | 17:20 |
| boris-42 | msdubov I am talking about removing them from files | 17:20 |
| msdubov | boris-42, ok | 17:20 |
| boris-42 | msdubov i am talking about generating them from code | 17:20 |
| amaretskiy | so, if we want to generate JSON, then: 1) parsing source is bad 2) templating is good - so docstrings are not good for that | 17:20 |
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| boris-42 | amaretskiy so basically having one @base.sampe() is good choose | 17:21 |
| boris-42 | choice* | 17:21 |
| boris-42 | for "rally info" and generation of doc/samples/tasks/ | 17:21 |
| amaretskiy | yes, decorator is good :) | 17:21 |
| msdubov | amaretskiy, boris-42 agree | 17:22 |
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| boris-42 | Okay so then I think | 17:23 |
| boris-42 | we will add @sample() | 17:23 |
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| boris-42 | btw it can be reused for Context/Runner/Scenarios | 17:23 |
| boris-42 | and SLA stuff | 17:24 |
| tnurlygayanov | we want to generate samples based on parameters of functions/methods? | 17:24 |
| boris-42 | so I think it should be in common place | 17:24 |
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| boris-42 | tnurlygayanov nope we don't want | 17:24 |
| boris-42 | tnurlygayanov it's impossible | 17:24 |
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| tnurlygayanov | ok, how we will generate samples? we need to stroe some information about each benchmark/scenario and generate samples based on this info | 17:25 |
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| boris-42 | tnurlygayanov ... | 17:26 |
| amaretskiy | property | 17:26 |
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| boris-42 | tnurlygayanov whole discussion above was about that | 17:26 |
| tnurlygayanov | ok | 17:26 |
| boris-42 | tnurlygayanov we will have @sample | 17:26 |
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| boris-42 | tnurlygayanov that adds property to class/method in different cases | 17:26 |
| boris-42 | tnurlygayanov and that can be reused by SLA/Context/Runners/Scenarios | 17:26 |
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| tnurlygayanov | boris-42 ok, now it is clear :) thank you. | 17:27 |
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| boris-42 | Okay let's move | 17:31 |
| boris-42 | #topic Rally info updates and future steps | 17:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Rally info updates and future steps (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:31 | |
| boris-42 | msdubov go on | 17:31 |
| rook | Future : way to disable cleanup =) | 17:32 |
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| rook | kambiz is not here to talk more to that :D | 17:32 |
| msdubov | So there are two major updates on this, both in one patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/126421/ | 17:32 |
| rook | however, i agree boris-42 it is a "nice to have" | 17:32 |
| boris-42 | rook I mean it will be | 17:32 |
| boris-42 | rook it's already in our road map | 17:32 |
| boris-42 | rook https://github.com/stackforge/rally/blob/master/doc/feature_request/persistence_benchmark_env.rst | 17:33 |
| msdubov | 1. Typing just "rally info" or "rally info list" results in printing out a list of scenarios/engines/... that can be queried by rally info | 17:33 |
| boris-42 | rook this is our roadmap | 17:33 |
| msdubov | 2. "rally info find <...>" now has more info about scenario groups | 17:33 |
| boris-42 | rook but it will take some amount of time to implement it | 17:33 |
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| msdubov | e.g. "rally info find NovaServers" -> you have info about what benchmark scenarios are there | 17:33 |
| msdubov | in a neat table-like output | 17:33 |
| msdubov | Also there is a test that checks that Rally is covered with docstrings: https://review.openstack.org/127192 | 17:34 |
| msdubov | As soon as we make it pass, we can be sure that "rally info" works well too :) | 17:34 |
| boris-42 | msdubov so | 17:35 |
| boris-42 | msdubov what about SLA plugins? | 17:35 |
| msdubov | boris-42, What do you mean? | 17:36 |
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| boris-42 | msdubov I mean SLA plugins | 17:37 |
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| boris-42 | msdubov can I find them using rally info | 17:37 |
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| boris-42 | msdubov this https://github.com/stackforge/rally/blob/master/rally/benchmark/sla/base.py#L85-L135 | 17:37 |
| msdubov | boris-42, So say you type "rally info find max_seconds_per_iteration" | 17:38 |
| msdubov | boris-42, What do you expect to get? | 17:38 |
| msdubov | boris-42, Config sample? | 17:38 |
| boris-42 | msdubov infromation about it | 17:38 |
| boris-42 | msdubov I would like to type rally info find sla | 17:38 |
| boris-42 | msdubov and find all sla's | 17:38 |
| msdubov | boris-42, Ah I see | 17:38 |
| boris-42 | then type rally info find max_seconds_per_iteration | 17:39 |
| boris-42 | and see information about it more detailed | 17:39 |
| boris-42 | and probably in future samples | 17:39 |
| boris-42 | when we finish @sample stuff | 17:39 |
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| msdubov | boris-42, that actually doesn't work for scenarios/engines as well "rally info find engines" will be an invalid input | 17:39 |
| msdubov | boris-42, I want fix that | 17:39 |
| msdubov | boris-42, But as for SLA | 17:39 |
| boris-42 | msdubov ya | 17:39 |
| boris-42 | msdubov as well as a end user if you type rally info NovaServers | 17:39 |
| boris-42 | msdubov output is quite misleading | 17:40 |
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| msdubov | boris-42, Why? | 17:40 |
| msdubov | it is just a list of scenarios with one-line description | 17:40 |
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| boris-42 | msdubov you are getting output of "rally info" | 17:40 |
| msdubov | quite compact | 17:40 |
| boris-42 | msdubov read one more time what I wrtoe | 17:40 |
| boris-42 | msdubov "rally info NovaServers" | 17:40 |
| msdubov | boris-42, Of course you are getting the output of rally info | 17:40 |
| boris-42 | msdubov that sux | 17:40 |
| msdubov | boris-42, We discussed that multiple times | 17:40 |
| msdubov | boris-42, I even made a patch that fixed this... | 17:41 |
| msdubov | boris-42, But it involved some dirty code | 17:41 |
| boris-42 | msdubov you should specify | 17:41 |
| boris-42 | msdubov Mike | 17:41 |
| boris-42 | msdubov when I type "rally info NovaServers" I would like to see ouptut | 17:41 |
| boris-42 | "Probably you thought to specify rally info find NovaServers" | 17:41 |
| msdubov | boris-42, You forgot what I told you about the command parsers... | 17:42 |
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| msdubov | boris-42, They don't support such stuff | 17:42 |
| boris-42 | msdubov you should find the way | 17:42 |
| msdubov | boris-42, I implemented that "default" method | 17:42 |
| boris-42 | msdubov =) | 17:42 |
| msdubov | boris-42, The only way is to remove common cliutils/argparse | 17:42 |
| boris-42 | msdubov you should make one more IF conditions in it | 17:42 |
| boris-42 | msdubov in default method | 17:42 |
| boris-42 | msdubov like if there is third argument | 17:43 |
| msdubov | boris-42, There is no default method as of now, I removed it | 17:43 |
| boris-42 | msdubov do helper | 17:43 |
| msdubov | boris-42, Take a look at the code | 17:43 |
| msdubov | boris-42, it just has a patched docstring | 17:43 |
| boris-42 | msdubov I don't care actually about code | 17:43 |
| boris-42 | msdubov I am talking about result | 17:43 |
| boris-42 | msdubov result is misleading for end users | 17:43 |
| boris-42 | msdubov it is not what we want | 17:43 |
| msdubov | boris-42, Well then I don't understand you | 17:44 |
| boris-42 | msdubov I just said | 17:44 |
| msdubov | boris-42, You suggested removing that default method and leaving this "rally info find ..." syntax as is | 17:44 |
| msdubov | boris-42, And now ou require the opposite | 17:44 |
| boris-42 | msdubov one more time | 17:45 |
| boris-42 | rally info | 17:45 |
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| boris-42 | <PRint pretty help> | 17:45 |
| boris-42 | rally info find NovaServers | 17:45 |
| boris-42 | <print info about NovaServers> | 17:45 |
| boris-42 | rally info NovaServers | 17:45 |
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| boris-42 | <say you probably think that run rally info find > | 17:45 |
| boris-42 | ^ msdubov what is unclear? | 17:46 |
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| boris-42 | msdubov okay just keep it in mind | 17:47 |
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| boris-42 | msdubov and let's move | 17:47 |
| boris-42 | #topic cleanup | 17:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "cleanup (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:47 | |
| boris-42 | rook =) | 17:47 |
| boris-42 | Okay I am working on pretty big patch that makes our cleanup system more production ready | 17:48 |
| boris-42 | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/129060/ | 17:48 |
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| boris-42 | I am going to finish it maybe today =) | 17:48 |
| rook | boris-42++ | 17:48 |
| boris-42 | So now cleanuping is quite simple, plugable, safe and parallel | 17:49 |
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| boris-42 | only thing that you need is to create sublass | 17:49 |
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| boris-42 | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/129060/16/rally/benchmark/context/cleanup/projects_resources.py | 17:49 |
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| boris-42 | for your resoruce | 17:49 |
| boris-42 | everything else will be covered by cleanup stuff | 17:49 |
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| boris-42 | without end user (dev) attention which is nice=) | 17:50 |
| boris-42 | rook about turning off cleanup | 17:50 |
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| boris-42 | rook actually making it as a separated command | 17:50 |
| rook | or a option in the yaml/json | 17:50 |
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| boris-42 | rook ya maybe) | 17:51 |
| boris-42 | rook in any case we will find some solution | 17:51 |
| boris-42 | rook after few more patches=) | 17:51 |
| boris-42 | rook and refactorings | 17:51 |
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| boris-42 | #topic Docker imags | 17:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Docker imags (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:52 | |
| boris-42 | So we will have job that will create docker image on every merged patch | 17:52 |
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| boris-42 | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/131389/ | 17:53 |
| boris-42 | which will simplify life of end users a lot | 17:53 |
| boris-42 | cause they won't need to install it=) | 17:53 |
| boris-42 | by hands | 17:53 |
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| boris-42 | so | 17:55 |
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| boris-42 | #topic Imprvoments in functional testing | 17:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Imprvoments in functional testing (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:56 | |
| boris-42 | Andrey Kurilin add patch that runs "rally verify" on every patch | 17:56 |
| boris-42 | And checks that at least half of tests passed | 17:56 |
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| boris-42 | So at least we have some basic function testing for rally verify commands, that won't allow us to break everything | 17:56 |
| boris-42 | #topic New Rally report | 17:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "New Rally report (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:57 | |
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| boris-42 | amaretskiy is continue work on this part | 17:58 |
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| boris-42 | so a lot of new improments https://review.openstack.org/#/c/128991/ that I hope we will merge soon | 17:58 |
| boris-42 | so we need to finish meeting | 17:58 |
| boris-42 | Glad to see you guys | 17:58 |
| boris-42 | #endmeeting | 17:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 28 17:58:39 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-10-28-17.07.html | 17:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-10-28-17.07.txt | 17:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-10-28-17.07.log.html | 17:58 |
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| morganfainberg | dolphm, ayoung, bknudson, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, nkinder, lloydm, shrekuma, ksavich, hrybacki, rharwood, grantbow, vdreamarkitex, raildo, rodrigods, amakarov, ajayaa, hogepodge, breton, lhcheng https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 18:00 |
| henrynash | hi | 18:00 |
| dolphm | \o/ | 18:00 |
| bknudson | hi | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | morganfainberg: o/ | 18:00 |
| dstanek | o/ | 18:00 |
| bknudson | bonjour | 18:00 |
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| ayoung | I'm here. | 18:01 |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: fyi, you should probably change the chair in:https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings#Keystone_team_meeting | 18:01 |
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| morganfainberg | lol | 18:01 |
| morganfainberg | ok | 18:01 |
| gyee | \o | 18:01 |
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| marekd | good evening! | 18:01 |
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| henrynash | salut | 18:01 |
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| rodrigods | o/ | 18:02 |
| raildo | \o | 18:02 |
| htruta | o/ | 18:02 |
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| hogepodge | o/ | 18:03 |
| morganfainberg | #startmeeting Keystone | 18:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 28 18:03:07 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is morganfainberg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:03 |
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| morganfainberg | So we're headed to Paris! | 18:03 |
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| morganfainberg | woot | 18:03 |
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| dolphm | wait what | 18:03 |
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| marekd | ppl arriving Sat or Sun? | 18:03 |
| lbragstad | I'll be there Saturday | 18:03 |
| marekd | (some Monday i heard) | 18:03 |
| bknudson | Sun | 18:03 |
| morganfainberg | I'll be there on saturday morning | 18:04 |
| dstanek | Sunday | 18:04 |
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| gyee | Sat morning | 18:04 |
| ayoung | Sun early...overnight Saturday night | 18:04 |
| dolphm | saturday morning | 18:04 |
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| raildo | Sunday | 18:04 |
| bknudson | flying through MSP? | 18:04 |
| lbragstad | I am! | 18:04 |
| * marekd Sunday | 18:04 | |
| lbragstad | bknudson: ^ | 18:04 |
| dstanek | i arrive at 7am give or take | 18:04 |
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| jamielennox | Sunday night | 18:04 |
| bknudson | lbragstad: you'll be on the flight the day before. | 18:04 |
| lbragstad | bknudson: yeah, friday night arriving Saturday morning | 18:05 |
| topol | o/ | 18:05 |
| topol | Ill be there Sunday | 18:05 |
| dstanek | for international fights is it better to carry-on or check baggage? | 18:05 |
| bknudson | lbragstad: smart! | 18:05 |
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| topol | Sunday morning | 18:05 |
| nonameentername | o/ | 18:05 |
| lbragstad | bknudson: we'll see | 18:05 |
| morganfainberg | topol, nice - first round of cognac on you? :P | 18:05 |
| topol | dstanek always best to carry on | 18:05 |
| marekd | dstanek: both? :-) | 18:05 |
| dolphm | dstanek: always carry on! but i'm doing both | 18:05 |
| nonameentername | Saturday | 18:05 |
| dolphm | critical stuff stays on my back :) | 18:06 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, depends on how long you'll be there | 18:06 |
| morganfainberg | since i'm staying for an extra week i'll be checking clothing mostly. | 18:06 |
| gyee | is there good place to get lub? | 18:06 |
| dstanek | morganfainberg: only a week | 18:06 |
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| morganfainberg | for 1wk i'd do carry on unless you need lots of stuff | 18:06 |
| dstanek | i almost always carry on, but i've never done international | 18:06 |
| topol | I carried on even for 7 days to Hong Kong. I wont go back to checking bags | 18:06 |
| bknudson | I'm also staying an extra week. | 18:06 |
| topol | Had them get ripped to shreds in the past | 18:06 |
| dolphm | topol: ++ | 18:06 |
| topol | dstanek if you can carry on definetly do that | 18:07 |
| dolphm | i only brought my backpack to atl | 18:07 |
| morganfainberg | topol, it's when you start hitting ~12-20 days it's hard to do as a single carryon internationally | 18:07 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: bring detergent | 18:07 |
| dolphm | problem solved | 18:07 |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: or hard to keep friends | 18:07 |
| topol | morganfainberg if I leave for 12 days my wife will kill me. wont be a problem | 18:07 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, *or* abuse my friends in Lyon when i'm visiting for their washing mashine | 18:07 |
| marekd | henrynash: unless they did the same. | 18:07 |
| morganfainberg | ;) | 18:07 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, haha | 18:08 |
| topol | dolphm, they sell it at the laundromats | 18:08 |
| topol | we do that when we goto Italy | 18:08 |
| ayoung | henrynash, you are sleeping at home each night, right? | 18:08 |
| ayoung | just commuting via train? | 18:08 |
| henrynash | ayoung: no..but nice idea! | 18:08 |
| dolphm | travel size laundry soap http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001TUZS98/ | 18:08 |
| bknudson | I wouldn't want to spend my time in paris washing clothes. | 18:09 |
| ayoung | Cuz crashing with you was my backup sleeping plan | 18:09 |
| henrynash | ayoung: ah! | 18:09 |
| bknudson | I can do that here. | 18:09 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, pay the hotel to do it for you. most will (even internationally) | 18:09 |
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| morganfainberg | ok so. | 18:09 |
| morganfainberg | #topic Review of Keystone Blueprints for "Trivial" Status | 18:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review of Keystone Blueprints for "Trivial" Status (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:09 | |
| topol | ayoung how come you can never afford a room? | 18:09 |
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| jamielennox | ayoung: if you're looking at backup plans i'm well and truly screwed | 18:10 |
| morganfainberg | We're going to try something new here. mostly this is just to cover the plan once we hit the swing of things. | 18:10 |
| marekd | jamielennox: ? | 18:10 |
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| jamielennox | marekd: he organized my accom | 18:10 |
| ayoung | topol, "Backup" meaning when jamielennox kicks me out. once again he is subjected to sharing a room with me | 18:10 |
| marekd | jamielennox: ayoung ? | 18:10 |
| ayoung | marekd, same company, trying to keep down costs | 18:10 |
| morganfainberg | #undo | 18:11 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x3577510> | 18:11 |
| marekd | ayoung: i was a studnent not so long time ago - i know what you are talking. | 18:11 |
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| morganfainberg | ok we can discuss accomodations in -keystone | 18:11 |
| morganfainberg | :) | 18:12 |
| marekd | yes | 18:12 |
| morganfainberg | #topic Review of Keystone Blueprints for "Trivial" Status | 18:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review of Keystone Blueprints for "Trivial" Status (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:12 | |
| bknudson | what are the blueprints to review? | 18:12 |
| ayoung | Actually, morganfainberg you want to explain what is going on with backlog etc? | 18:12 |
| morganfainberg | This is basically the way we're going to handle BPs that *dont* have a spec going forward, we will do a quick review each meeting and classify as "trivial" meaning no Spec needed | 18:12 |
| topol | cool | 18:13 |
| morganfainberg | if they are trivial they're approved and can be targeted for *this* milestone (or any) | 18:13 |
| bknudson | maybe I'd get more reviews if I wrote up a bp. | 18:13 |
| gyee | criteria for trivial status? | 18:13 |
| morganfainberg | an example of trivial: Fix documents | 18:13 |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: I have one: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/remove-role-metadata | 18:13 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, i'm working on full details, but basically stuff that doesn't change the REST API, is something "we should just do" | 18:14 |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: this might be a good test…it’s not as trivial as documentation | 18:14 |
| bknudson | henrynash: doesn't affect the API? | 18:14 |
| morganfainberg | and is self explanitory | 18:14 |
| morganfainberg | e.g. CADF everywhere | 18:14 |
| henrynash | bknduson: teh manager-driver api, yes, not the controller-manager api | 18:14 |
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| morganfainberg | yes we all agree we should make all notifications cadf, but do we need a big heavy formalized spec for it? probably not | 18:14 |
| gyee | sounds reasonable | 18:14 |
| henrynash | bknudson: which we may say, menas it’s not trivial? | 18:14 |
| morganfainberg | so lets take a look at keystone-client ( henrynash we'll use yours in a sec ) | 18:15 |
| morganfainberg | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/python-keystoneclient | 18:15 |
| bknudson | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/remove-role-metadata seems basic enough to me. | 18:15 |
| bknudson | I hate to call it trivial. | 18:15 |
| henrynash | bknudson: :-) | 18:15 |
| morganfainberg | if you look at the list ^ we're only interested in "undefined, new, and untargeted" BPs | 18:15 |
| bknudson | keystoneclient bp isn't going to affect the rest api | 18:15 |
| morganfainberg | for ksc there are 6. | 18:16 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, exactly and also because the list is short, i'm using it to explain things | 18:16 |
| bknudson | I've got code for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/python-keystoneclient/+spec/keystoneclient-i18n , just didn't know there was a bp. | 18:16 |
| jamielennox | keystoneclient has always been a little weird about blueprints - i don't think it's just me | 18:16 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, that is also why reviewing these helps :) | 18:16 |
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| morganfainberg | jamielennox, yeah. | 18:16 |
| dolphm | jamielennox: ++ | 18:17 |
| morganfainberg | so we're not oging to go through all of these this meeting. we'll pick just a couple ( like henry's ) and I'll finish cleaning everything up so the first meeting post summit we can start this process. | 18:17 |
| dolphm | story board should unify the approach between clients & server | 18:17 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, ++ | 18:17 |
| dolphm | *excited* | 18:18 |
| morganfainberg | and storyboard will help make this waaaaay better | 18:18 |
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| morganfainberg | ok so lets look at henry's bp now. | 18:18 |
| morganfainberg | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/remove-role-metadata | 18:18 |
| jamielennox | not to derail again but do we expect storyboard soon? | 18:18 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, not this cycle | 18:18 |
| krotscheck | jamielennox: nope. | 18:18 |
| morganfainberg | it's in beta for -infra to use | 18:18 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, help krotscheck get storyboard in shape for everyone else :) | 18:19 |
| krotscheck | jamielennox: Come to the lighting talk at the summit on monday to get an update. | 18:19 |
| bknudson | we need a storyboard demo at the summit | 18:19 |
| morganfainberg | ^^ lightning talk | 18:19 |
| marekd | bknudson: what's a storyboard? | 18:19 |
| krotscheck | The lightning talk is titled “Storyboard: Lightning Walkthrough" | 18:19 |
| jamielennox | i'd be keen to see it, i saw some of the beta but didn't really look at all the features | 18:19 |
| lbragstad | marekd: a new tracking tool to replace launchpad | 18:19 |
| marekd | lbragstad: thanks. | 18:19 |
| rodrigods | lbragstad, marekd, wow | 18:19 |
| morganfainberg | ok | 18:20 |
| morganfainberg | so Henry's BP | 18:20 |
| morganfainberg | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/remove-role-metadata | 18:20 |
| henrynash | so this is non-trivial in that it isn’t, say, just documentation.... | 18:21 |
| morganfainberg | this looks like something that doesn't affect the API contract | 18:21 |
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| gyee | but involves migration | 18:21 |
| gyee | data migration I mean | 18:21 |
| henrynash | it does affect the manager->driver API….but not the controller->manaager API | 18:21 |
| henrynash | gyee: no | 18:21 |
| gyee | so the meta are leftovers? | 18:22 |
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| morganfainberg | henrynash, this might be a case because it affects more things that we want a spec, but i'm open for anything to be classified as "no spec needed" (as long as it doesn't change API contract) | 18:22 |
| topol | henrynash you can just remove the role metadata and all is well? | 18:22 |
| ayoung | Is there any demand to PKI signe CADF messages? Or sign at log rotation? | 18:22 |
| ayoung | ah..sorry, I'm behind | 18:22 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, different topic | 18:22 |
| henrynash | gyee: yes…a few old manager APIs use it…and the drivers “fake up” the metadata from the underlying data | 18:22 |
| gyee | henrynash, k, I see | 18:23 |
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| dolphm | topol: it's about changing the "metadata" construction in the manager->driver API and replacing it with something more explicit | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | i could see this one go either way tbh. | 18:23 |
| ayoung | then lets go spec | 18:23 |
| ayoung | if there is a question...it probably means non-trivial | 18:24 |
| henrynash | so I’m open to doing a spec if people think it needs it….I think this one is a good test of the border line | 18:24 |
| ayoung | we can always downgrade if there isn't enough there | 18:24 |
| topol | feels like it needs a spec | 18:24 |
| henrynash | ok, done | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | i think this one would be better as a spec because there is a question of the more-explicit metadata -> other things | 18:24 |
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| topol | specs dont really help the dolphs and morgans of the world. but as a member of the unwashed masses they really help me to understand keystone arch and direction | 18:25 |
| henrynash | I think this one is probably the type that you people needs to see a spec before they could agree you didn;t need a spec :-) | 18:25 |
| ayoung | Let me make this explicit: if you are reviewing one of my specs, and you want to rewrite a section of it, please do so, and add yourself as a contributor/author | 18:25 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, i'll circle back on the backlog thing | 18:25 |
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| ayoung | until a spec is approved, lets treat them as collaborative documents | 18:26 |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: let’s try and find one that we can agree that’s trivial so we can hone in where the boundry is | 18:26 |
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| morganfainberg | henrynash, looking for one now | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | actually | 18:26 |
| ayoung | If it is a one line change already written | 18:26 |
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| henrynash | topol: unwashed? is that a continuation of the “do i packa carry on or not for paris"? | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/deprecate-ssl-functions | 18:27 |
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| ayoung | None of mine are Trivial | 18:27 |
| topol | henrynash I refused to answer on the basis that I may incriminate myself | 18:27 |
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| morganfainberg | this one is likely something that we "don't" care about a spec for. | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/deprecate-ssl-functions | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | it's mostly affecting testing | 18:28 |
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| morganfainberg | if we make the mechanism for handling the "self signed CA" better, everyone wins | 18:28 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, I have a solution to that! | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | but it wont have massive impact on too many things outside of devstack | 18:28 |
| gyee | dogtag? :) | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | and/or toy setups. | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | so. | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | thoughts on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/deprecate-ssl-functions ? | 18:29 |
| dolphm | any blueprint that only affects keystone developers should be second guessed for necessity | 18:29 |
| bknudson | not sure what the point is of making self signed CA more complicated. | 18:29 |
| ayoung | Use Certmonger | 18:29 |
| henrynash | ayoung: so on this one, we would explain how to set up certmonger (in the place of wherever we explain pki_setup)? | 18:29 |
| ayoung | yep | 18:29 |
| morganfainberg | basically. | 18:29 |
| henrynash | ayoung: ok | 18:29 |
| jamielennox | morganfainberg: so as much as i think yes trivial the advantage of a spec there is that later we can point someone to it and say why we did it | 18:29 |
| ayoung | and...for the selfsign, we would use certmaster. | 18:29 |
| ayoung | its a trivial CA | 18:29 |
| bknudson | openssl is a trivial ca | 18:29 |
| dolphm | or just get certs from anywhere not keystone | 18:30 |
| jamielennox | morganfainberg: because as much as i consider that obvious it's used by enough deployments that someone will notice it missing | 18:30 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, exactly | 18:30 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, i'm not saying we want this bp | 18:30 |
| dolphm | i don't see any reason at all why keystone should be advocating for certmonger | 18:30 |
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| morganfainberg | in fact i think it's not worth the effort | 18:30 |
| topol | so here is a question. what I liked about the specs is I can always go and do a review and see what needed to be reviewed. With trivial BPs now I have to look another place as well and do a merge/diff | 18:30 |
| dolphm | there's an argument to make for devstack, i suppose | 18:30 |
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| morganfainberg | but, this is a case where the BP if we wanted it doesn't need a spec | 18:30 |
| jamielennox | dolphm: ++ keystone doesn't care, just configure it with certs | 18:30 |
| bknudson | it would be interesting to see it in devstack | 18:30 |
| ayoung | https://fedorahosted.org/certmaster/ | 18:30 |
| morganfainberg | so in short, i'd say ditch this BP for keystone. | 18:31 |
| morganfainberg | but it's not worthy of a spec even if we wanted it. | 18:31 |
| ayoung | is XML RPC, in a stand alone server | 18:31 |
| dolphm | jamielennox: and actually half of keystone's ssl / pki config options are so that it can generate it's own certs... so all those can go away | 18:31 |
| morganfainberg | i'm actually a fan of repurposing this spec to "remove self-signed SSL options from keystone" | 18:31 |
| jamielennox | dolphm: yep, cause they are really confusing options when you come to it with a cert already | 18:31 |
| morganfainberg | and not care *how* we get there. | 18:31 |
| bknudson | they can be changed to cli options on keystone-manage | 18:32 |
| morganfainberg | e.g. "here is where you stick your certs"- how devstack works is not really keystone's scope. | 18:32 |
| jamielennox | bknudson: remove the whole command from -manage | 18:32 |
| topol | morganfainberg, because in real deployments the self-signed is never used correct? | 18:32 |
| bknudson | if we still want to make it somewhat easy | 18:32 |
| jamielennox | morganfainberg: ++ | 18:32 |
| morganfainberg | topol, , exactly | 18:32 |
| bknudson | I'm also fine with removing the function | 18:32 |
| jamielennox | morganfainberg: devstack already has a CA and cert generating component | 18:32 |
| ayoung | I'd leave the command in manage and make it call certmonger functions instead | 18:32 |
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| ayoung | but this discussion ios beyond the scope of this meeting | 18:32 |
| jamielennox | ayoung: nope - kill it | 18:32 |
| morganfainberg | ok, so proposal: make this BP "remove self-signed cert generation options" | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | and call it a "no-spec needed" BP | 18:33 |
| topol | jamielnnox ++ less code to learn/maintain :-) | 18:33 |
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| bknudson | I don't know if we need to deprecate the function | 18:33 |
| bknudson | or if we can just remove it | 18:33 |
| jamielennox | morganfainberg: +1 to change purpose, -1 to no spec - it doesn't need to be long but i think it's more about documenting why we removed it | 18:34 |
| dolphm | this could just be merged into the deprecated-for-kilo bp wherever that is | 18:34 |
| topol | bknudson may be right. how do we know some one didnt find a crazy use for it? | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, i like that | 18:34 |
| jamielennox | or merged into deprecated would be fine | 18:34 |
| bknudson | our products use it. | 18:34 |
| bknudson | but we can adapt to this one pretty easily | 18:34 |
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| morganfainberg | ok will kill this BP, with the comment that we should merge this topic into "removed-in-kilo" | 18:35 |
| henrynash | so I agree this doesn’t need a spec, but just becasue it is a no-spec BP, shoudl not mean it is any more likely to achieve agreement….we need to allow people to object just as a full spec BP | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, we can discuss in code review and on the BP. | 18:35 |
| jamielennox | i think pki_setup was my first keystone contribution - it seemed like a good idea at the time | 18:35 |
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| morganfainberg | henrynash, largely if there is a question it wont be "approved" | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, and we can say "no agreement that this is trivial" | 18:36 |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: yep | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | ah here is one | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/alembic | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | honestly, probably doesn't need a spec. | 18:37 |
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| bknudson | there are lots of questions around the conversion to alembic | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | it could help to have one but i think the spec will be "migrate data to alembic" | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | but i don't think a spec will answer them | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | in any meaningful way | 18:38 |
| ayoung | I think there are a lot of devils hiding in the weeds with the migrations | 18:38 |
| bknudson | is it only for new migrations,or is it existing ones, too? | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | this isn't a trivial bp, it is a "there isn't a lot of ways to do this, but lots of things to change? | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | " | 18:38 |
| ayoung | what if we accect a hybrid | 18:38 |
| dolphm | bknudson: i think ceilometer (?) did the transition successfully mid cycle using only new migrations | 18:38 |
| ayoung | sql-a up to now, alembic assumes that SQL has been run first | 18:39 |
| bknudson | seems like we do have to move away from sqlalchemy-migrate at some point since I think it's abandoned. | 18:39 |
| jamielennox | morganfainberg: agreed, i don't think the spec will tell anything about the code direction - so BP is good for tying it together but i'm ok with a BP only | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, that is the general direction we would like to go is possible | 18:39 |
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| ayoung | when we get to the point that we can collapse the migrations, and drop all of the sql-a ones, we drop sql-a | 18:39 |
| bknudson | ayoung: I like that plan. | 18:39 |
| dolphm | ayoung: ++ | 18:39 |
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| morganfainberg | i'll change the topic in the meeting from "Trivial" to "No-Spec-Required" | 18:40 |
| ayoung | should i #action that? | 18:40 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, sure! | 18:40 |
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| bknudson | we should make the decision that kilo is alembic or not before we get a migration | 18:41 |
| ayoung | #action Current SQl migrations will stay in SQL Alchemy. New migrations will be done in Alembic. We will have a Hybrid solution for a couple of releases until we can collapse all of the SQL-Alchemy ones into Alembic. | 18:41 |
| dolphm | bknudson: well we need the support in db_sync to run both | 18:41 |
| dolphm | bknudson: (first) | 18:41 |
| dolphm | bknudson: when we accept that, the rest of kilo becomes alembic | 18:41 |
| ayoung | ++ | 18:41 |
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| dstanek | all these great details should get pushed into the blueprint or spec | 18:42 |
| ayoung | dstanek, Agreed | 18:42 |
| lbragstad | ++ | 18:42 |
| morganfainberg | ok | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | so lets move on. we have other topics to cover | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, mind updating the spec? | 18:43 |
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| morganfainberg | erm bp | 18:43 |
| ayoung | "When in doubt, spec it out." | 18:43 |
| henrynash | maybe the spec-less BP is an urban myth? | 18:43 |
| ayoung | Will do | 18:43 |
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| topol | ayoung +++ | 18:43 |
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| morganfainberg | #topic QA Liason | 18:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "QA Liason (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:43 | |
| gyee | henrynash, nice! | 18:43 |
| henrynash | (or maybe just a lot rarer than we thought) | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CrossProjectLiaisons#QA | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | we need someone to take the role on. | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | (please) | 18:44 |
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| morganfainberg | this is the same as oslo and VMT liasons | 18:44 |
| dstanek | henrynash: there is always something to argue about | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | just for QA | 18:44 |
| dstanek | morganfainberg: as in tempest like stuff? | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, yep | 18:44 |
| lbragstad | so, same things as oslo liason? | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, and the gate etc. | 18:44 |
| dstanek | morganfainberg: i'll do that | 18:44 |
| bknudson | everyt time the gate breaks you know they're going to blame keystone! | 18:45 |
| lbragstad | I'll be backup | 18:45 |
| dstanek | unless someone else wants to | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek,awesome please add yourself tot he wiki | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | #action dstanek QA Liason, lbragstad backup | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | #topic Keystone IRC Meeting Cancelled November 3rd and November 10th | 18:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Keystone IRC Meeting Cancelled November 3rd and November 10th (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:45 | |
| morganfainberg | we'll be at the summit and the post-summit one we likely don't have a lot to talk about | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | so next keystone meeting will be the 17th | 18:46 |
| gyee | before thanksgiving | 18:46 |
| marekd | Nov 10th is a monday ? | 18:46 |
| morganfainberg | plus lots of people will either still be in France or jet lagged | 18:46 |
| morganfainberg | sorry 11th | 18:47 |
| morganfainberg | marekd, , good catch | 18:47 |
| morganfainberg | #topic Keystone IRC Meeting Cancelled November 3rd and November 11th | 18:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Keystone IRC Meeting Cancelled November 3rd and November 11th (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:47 | |
| morganfainberg | and the next meeting is actually tyhe 18th | 18:47 |
| bknudson | works for me. | 18:47 |
| henrynash | err…can’t be the 3rd then either | 18:47 |
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| morganfainberg | #undo | 18:47 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x366ff10> | 18:48 |
| henrynash | 4th & 11th cancelled | 18:48 |
| morganfainberg | #topic next keystone meeting is 18th. (yes i can't do date math--morganfainberg) | 18:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "next keystone meeting is 18th. (yes i can't do date math--morganfainberg) (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:48 | |
| morganfainberg | ok | 18:48 |
| morganfainberg | #topic Scoping federated tokens with 'token' identity method | 18:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Scoping federated tokens with 'token' identity method (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:48 | |
| morganfainberg | marekd, o/ | 18:48 |
| marekd | o/ | 18:48 |
| marekd | so that should be quick | 18:48 |
| bknudson | doesn't it work now? | 18:49 |
| marekd | we spoke with jamielennox last week about it, and it turns out that there is a relatively simple way to unify scoping federated classic tokens. No need to add extra method name 'saml2' or 'mapped'. | 18:49 |
| marekd | just wanted to hear your opinions | 18:49 |
| marekd | it's is now: https://github.com/openstack/identity-api/blob/master/v3/src/markdown/identity-api-v3-os-federation-ext.md#request-a-scoped-os-federation-token-post-authtokens | 18:49 |
| marekd | and looks like we could use 'token' which would simplyfy few things, let us remove some code from keystoneclient | 18:50 |
| bknudson | y, it's the same as getting a token from a token | 18:50 |
| bknudson | what has to change, though? | 18:50 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, keystoneclient code/ | 18:51 |
| morganfainberg | ? | 18:51 |
| marekd | no, keystonecode | 18:51 |
| gyee | if the payloads are the same, then yes | 18:51 |
| marekd | keystone code | 18:51 |
| gyee | auth payloads I mean | 18:51 |
| topol | do you change the info sent in on the restful APIs? | 18:51 |
| marekd | gyee: payload are not the same | 18:51 |
| ayoung | Um...that is not why we were doing that in the past | 18:51 |
| jamielennox | bknudson: ++ that's kind of the point, i don't know why it was ever a different auth method anyway, it should have always just been token | 18:51 |
| marekd | we need to differencitate if that a federated or 'classic' token | 18:51 |
| ayoung | the "method" is what the client sets...like "kerberos" | 18:51 |
| ayoung | as you recall, I didn't even want that... | 18:51 |
| gyee | if the auth payloads are not the same, then we need different identifications | 18:51 |
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| ayoung | can we just drop the methods all together? | 18:51 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: not really | 18:51 |
| marekd | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/130593/1/keystone/auth/plugins/token.py | 18:52 |
| ayoung | didn't think so, but worth asking | 18:52 |
| marekd | i made a super quick fix | 18:52 |
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| morganfainberg | oh that is kindof slick marekd | 18:52 |
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| morganfainberg | meta programing without metaprogramming. | 18:52 |
| marekd | morganfainberg: i don't say it's the best way - we could do some upper object TokenBase that would call either Mapped or Token classes | 18:53 |
| * morganfainberg wonders how that can break things | 18:53 | |
| gyee | that's kindda chaotic though, have to parse the payload in order to figure what it is | 18:53 |
| morganfainberg | probably should do that. | 18:53 |
| morganfainberg | if we're parsing payload | 18:53 |
| marekd | but this is somewhere where this 'switch' needs to be done, as we must enter Token.authenticate() method | 18:53 |
| morganfainberg | we're actually doubling the validate in this case | 18:53 |
| gyee | we need something unambiguous | 18:54 |
| ayoung | so method name should indicate what was used to request the token | 18:54 |
| jamielennox | it would make the client side a whole lot easier - there is no reason that an unscoped federation token should be any different from a regular unscoped token | 18:54 |
| ayoung | but, I'd be ok with the method being added to the token after the fact, and not be part of the token request | 18:54 |
| ayoung | IN fact, I'd prefer iot | 18:54 |
| ayoung | it | 18:54 |
| dolphm | jamielennox: ++ | 18:54 |
| morganfainberg | my only concern here is we're doubling the validate call (very expensive) | 18:54 |
| morganfainberg | (6 mins) | 18:54 |
| morganfainberg | we can talk about this a little further in -keystone, but i think tokens should be tokens | 18:55 |
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| morganfainberg | not "federated tokens are special" | 18:55 |
| gyee | unscoped token is unscoped token, there shouldn't be any differece | 18:55 |
| ayoung | The issue I have is that I need different AUTH_URLS for Kerberos etc | 18:55 |
| marekd | morganfainberg: it's a pure wip as i didn't know if its worth working on that | 18:55 |
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| marekd | morganfainberg: but looks like validation doesn't need to be done twice. | 18:55 |
| morganfainberg | ok | 18:55 |
| morganfainberg | need to move on | 18:56 |
| marekd | anyway, is it worth working on that? no -2 objections? | 18:56 |
| gyee | method and scope are two different thing | 18:56 |
| morganfainberg | no objections from me :) | 18:56 |
| ayoung | marekd, lets talk next week | 18:56 |
| morganfainberg | #topic Hierarchical Multitenancy API spec | 18:56 |
| marekd | ayoung: sure | 18:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Hierarchical Multitenancy API spec (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:56 | |
| morganfainberg | rodrigods, o/ | 18:56 |
| ayoung | we might be able to go even further | 18:56 |
| rodrigods | o/ | 18:56 |
| topol | does it break anything if someone was already using this? | 18:56 |
| morganfainberg | (sorry you only have a couple mins) | 18:56 |
| raildo | o/ | 18:56 |
| marekd | ayoung: yes yesyes! | 18:56 |
| rodrigods | ok | 18:56 |
| rodrigods | quick one: please please review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/130103/ , it's a dependency from https://review.openstack.org/#/c/117786/ (once we had a plan that everything would be merged by the summit or just after it) | 18:56 |
| rodrigods | that's it =) | 18:56 |
| raildo | ++ | 18:56 |
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| morganfainberg | please aim to get them reviewed merged as close to summit/post summit as possible | 18:57 |
| bknudson | seems strange that an extension is modifying the core API | 18:57 |
| gyee | k | 18:57 |
| rodrigods | will be here to do fix as soon we have -1s | 18:57 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, i want to talk about extensions at the summit | 18:57 |
| morganfainberg | hallwaytrack/pod | 18:57 |
| morganfainberg | #topic Splitting up Assignments | 18:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Splitting up Assignments (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:57 | |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, o/ | 18:57 |
| morganfainberg | real quick! | 18:57 |
| bknudson | y, another way to put it is why is HMT an extension | 18:58 |
| henrynash | ok , wanted to get a quick read on if people are gnerally supprotinve of this | 18:58 |
| rodrigods | bknudson, it isn't, just the inherited roles part is | 18:58 |
| dolphm | (2 min) | 18:58 |
| gyee | henrynash, yes | 18:58 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, it makes logical sense to me. | 18:58 |
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| henrynash | any violent objections? | 18:58 |
| ayoung | Lets make Domains into projects and nest projects and call them tenants | 18:59 |
| ayoung | damn...too slow again | 18:59 |
| henrynash | ayoung: we can do that nicely once we have split this up! | 18:59 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, do roles stay with domains? | 18:59 |
| henrynash | yes….domains, project and roles are the “base entities” | 18:59 |
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| dstanek | Trivial question that came up in a review. LOG.warn vs LOG.warning? Should we standardize? | 18:59 |
| morganfainberg | and thats time., take it to -keystone please | 19:00 |
| morganfainberg | #endmeeting | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:00 | |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 28 19:00:04 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-10-28-18.03.html | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-10-28-18.03.txt | 19:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-10-28-18.03.log.html | 19:00 |
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| clarkb | o/ | 19:00 |
| hogepodge | o/ | 19:00 |
| fungi | yo | 19:00 |
| nibalizer | o/ | 19:00 |
| mmedvede | o/ | 19:00 |
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| pleia2 | o/ | 19:00 |
| ianw | o/ | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 28 19:01:20 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #link previous meeting http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-10-21-19.00.html | 19:01 |
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| jeblair | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:01 | |
| zaro | o/ | 19:01 |
| jeblair | clarkb figure out gerrit per project third party voting ACLs and third party accounts via openid | 19:01 |
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| clarkb | I have not started that | 19:02 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: still want to do it? | 19:02 |
| clarkb | yup I can do it | 19:02 |
| jeblair | #action clarkb figure out gerrit per project third party voting ACLs and third party accounts via openid | 19:02 |
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| jeblair | clarkb write py26 deprecation email | 19:02 |
| clarkb | that was written and sent | 19:02 |
| jeblair | i think that one happened? | 19:02 |
| clarkb | and we deprecated py26 on th eserver projects already | 19:02 |
| cody-somerville | o/ | 19:03 |
| jeblair | clarkb: is there more deprecation that needs doing? | 19:03 |
| krtaylor | o/ sorry I'm late | 19:03 |
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| fungi | deprecation for other projects (e.g. infra) and also stackforge | 19:03 |
| clarkb | jeblair: ya, potentially some stuff to sort out around oslo projects (thought we may just leave them as is) | 19:03 |
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| clarkb | then infra and stackforge | 19:03 |
| jeblair | does infra need 2.6 for anything? | 19:03 |
| fungi | the other projects review was waiting for confirmation from impacted projects' ptls right? | 19:03 |
| jeblair | maybe jjb? | 19:03 |
| clarkb | jeblair: any code that runs on centos will need it so zuul should keep it probably | 19:04 |
| clarkb | (for the zuul-cloner) | 19:04 |
| clarkb | jjb is probably reasonable to keep as well | 19:04 |
| pleia2 | 19:04 | |
| clarkb | everything else probably doesn't need it | 19:04 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: oh, that's a really good point re zuul-cloner | 19:04 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack-infra/project-config+branch:master+topic:python26,n,z | 19:04 |
| fungi | for the reviews in question | 19:04 |
| clarkb | and we are going to give stackforge projects a lot of time (fungi was uncomfortable with quick switching them especially with all the summit goings on) | 19:05 |
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| fungi | scheduled for november 30th according to the announcement | 19:05 |
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| jeblair | ok | 19:06 |
| jeblair | fungi draft third-party testing liaisons section for wiki | 19:06 |
| fungi | that was a tentative item pending clarkb's testing | 19:06 |
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| fungi | need to know whether we actually need liasons for requests to disable/reenable accounts, or whether we can engineer that in per-project acls as well | 19:07 |
| fungi | e.g. preventing them from commenting at all | 19:07 |
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| jeblair | fungi: oh, i thought we wanted liasons anyway | 19:08 |
| fungi | so no action there yet | 19:08 |
| * AJaeger is sorry for beeing late | 19:08 | |
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| jeblair | at least, i asked that last meeting and thought i got an affirmative response | 19:08 |
| fungi | er, right, as rallying points for the third-party ci operators testing the respective projects | 19:08 |
| jeblair | 19:44:36 <fungi> but beyond that, the liaisons idea acts as a rallying point for the third-party testers on those projects in place of our infra team | 19:08 |
| jeblair | 19:44:42 <krtaylor> third-party liaisons would also be helpful for third-party systems, a point of contact for systems with questions | 19:08 |
| jeblair | 19:44:56 <jeblair> so it sounds like liasons may still be useful even if we go to self-service, both for us (disabling for abuse, and facilitating onboarding of new ci systems with the projects themselves) | 19:08 |
| krtaylor | yes, I think it was needed either way | 19:08 |
| fungi | so the question is whether they'll be needed for just that, or for additional tasks | 19:09 |
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| krtaylor | it is a starting point for additional tasks | 19:09 |
| jeblair | fungi: yep. so you want to wait until we know what we're asking of them before we starting asking it of them? | 19:09 |
| fungi | i'll get the initial writeup knocked out in that case and we can amend it with further needs as they become apparent | 19:09 |
| jeblair | fungi: that sounds like a reasonable plan | 19:09 |
| krtaylor | +1 | 19:09 |
| fungi | i'm indifferent there, but wouldn't be a bad idea before actually making it official | 19:09 |
| hogepodge | fungi I'd like to be involved and as helpful as I can be. | 19:10 |
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| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts: Swift logs | 19:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts: Swift logs (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:10 | |
| fungi | #action fungi draft initial third-party liaisons description, to later be amended as needed before publication | 19:10 |
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| fungi | hogepodge: thanks--i'll keep you in the loop | 19:10 |
| jeblair | jhesketh: are you around? | 19:11 |
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| krtaylor | fungi, I'll be glad to help as well | 19:11 |
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| fungi | krtaylor: appreciated | 19:11 |
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| fungi | i'm assuming either some of us are lagging badly or jhesketh is not present | 19:13 |
| jeblair | last week we discussed that we may need a jenkins plugin to do log uploads regardless of job status | 19:14 |
| clarkb | in order to capture logs when jobs fail | 19:14 |
| jeblair | separately, an internal hp discussion brought up this plugin: https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/PostBuildScript+Plugin | 19:14 |
| jeblair | which is a way less insane way of doing that than the last time i looked | 19:14 |
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| jeblair | (there was a plugin where you needed to regex match on .* in the console log to have it run -- weird) | 19:15 |
| fungi | probably makes more sense than hacking together yet-another-java-project | 19:15 |
| jeblair | so at some point, i expect we'll want to look into using that | 19:15 |
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| jeblair | and if hp uses it, hopefully we can get some feedback there too | 19:15 |
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| clarkb | that plugin looks reasonable | 19:16 |
| jeblair | yeah, it _seems_ like it shouldn't have any sync points or other jenkins things that make us unhappy | 19:16 |
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| jeblair | that's all i have on this one | 19:16 |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/PostBuildScript+Plugin | 19:16 |
| jeblair | oh thanks :) | 19:17 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts: Puppet module split | 19:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts: Puppet module split (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:17 | |
| jeblair | asselin: ping | 19:17 |
| jeblair | " asselin is working on Jenkins module split, when should we schedule the freeze and split?" is in the agenda | 19:17 |
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| krtaylor | here is the link to the topic | 19:17 |
| krtaylor | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/branch:master+topic:module-split,n,z | 19:17 |
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| fungi | i think this spun out of yesterday's discussions about the next ways to coordinate the switch-over step so as to minimize module-specific freeze periods | 19:18 |
| fungi | s/next/best/ | 19:18 |
| jeblair | okay, let's talk about that then :) | 19:18 |
| krtaylor | mmedvede, ^^^ | 19:18 |
| fungi | anteaya: this was something you asked to have on the agenda i think? | 19:18 |
| fungi | oh, right, she may be travelling today | 19:19 |
| clarkb | we accidentally merged half of a split's changes | 19:19 |
| fungi | so, i think it was the puppet-kibana module | 19:19 |
| clarkb | yup | 19:19 |
| fungi | the new project creation change got approved/merged | 19:19 |
| fungi | with minimal fanfare | 19:19 |
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| jeblair | then what did not get merged? | 19:20 |
| fungi | luckily someone (anteaya?) noticed and pointed out we should refrain from making changes to the copy of that module in system-config now | 19:20 |
| clarkb | jeblair: the system-config change I asked you guys to review really quickly yesterday | 19:20 |
| nibalizer | ya anteaya is out right now | 19:20 |
| clarkb | which did merge iirc | 19:20 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: and that change was to add it to testing, the modules env file, and remove the old code? | 19:21 |
| fungi | so i believe this meeting topic was in hopes of bringing some sane recommendations to the authors and approvers of those changes for better coordination | 19:21 |
| clarkb | jeblair: yup | 19:21 |
| nibalizer | fungi: exactly | 19:21 |
| clarkb | I suggseted that we try to communicate the coupling a bit better. changes should be proposed and WIP'd and very clearly specify the relationships between changes | 19:22 |
| fungi | options proposed were to schedule the approvals of those, or to seek out infra-core shepherds to work with the authors proposing them and handle the final coordination | 19:22 |
| jeblair | so perhaps we should: wait until both changes are staged; link the system-config change to the project-config change with "Depends-On:" | 19:22 |
| mmedvede | what we have left off at yesterday is that there should be a core who would coordinate each individual split, correct? | 19:22 |
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| fungi | in my opinion, i think making it clear in the commit messages that they depend on one another and core reviewers making sure to pay attention to commit messages should help most of this | 19:23 |
| clarkb | agreed. I don't think we need a specific core to coordinate around each of these changes | 19:23 |
| nibalizer | how does that deal with lag? | 19:23 |
| fungi | but -2 or wip is another potential safeguard (though it does mean the author needing to actively troll for reviews) | 19:24 |
| nibalizer | lag between the initial submodule spilt and the series of patching lags is the freeze period | 19:24 |
| jeblair | i think the thing getting a core on-board with it gives is is a commitment from someone to be around in a few hours to ensure #2 doesn't sit outstanding for too long | 19:24 |
| jeblair | or what nibalizer said :) | 19:24 |
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| nibalizer | ya | 19:24 |
| jeblair | however, i don't think it needs to be the same core... | 19:24 |
| nibalizer | we could even do the other thing anteaya said | 19:24 |
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| nibalizer | which is friday after project rename we do split outs for the week | 19:25 |
| fungi | right, so i don't know it has to be an assigned core reviewer the entire way through, just when it comes time to approve things together | 19:25 |
| clarkb | right whoever does approve one should approve the other | 19:25 |
| jeblair | so maybe it's a matter of whoever approves the first one, they at least make sure it's likely that they or someone else will be around for the second? | 19:25 |
| fungi | seems fair | 19:25 |
| jeblair | want to try that for a bit? and if we need more structure, maybe we do split-out friday? :) | 19:26 |
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| clarkb | wfm | 19:26 |
| nibalizer | wfm | 19:27 |
| fungi | proposed agreement: when dependent puppet-module splits are completely ready to merge, a core reviewer will commit to approving them in the appropriate order or coordinate with another reviewer to take over | 19:27 |
| jeblair | fungi: wfm; i'm going to add a second item | 19:27 |
| fungi | oh, i had a second one too, but go ahead | 19:27 |
| jeblair | proposed agreement: system-config module removals should include Depends-On: in commit message referencing corresponding project-config module adds | 19:28 |
| jeblair | anyone disagree with fungi's statement? | 19:28 |
| fungi | heh, that was essentially my second agreement item ;) | 19:28 |
| wenlock | seems like a good plan, its what we've been doing too btw | 19:29 |
| krtaylor | should commit message include the core working it? | 19:29 |
| jeblair | krtaylor: no, i don't think we want that kind of fixed structure | 19:29 |
| nibalizer | works! | 19:29 |
| wenlock | the commit message should include a link to the other commit thats dependent IMO | 19:29 |
| fungi | i think the point of these is to serve as a reminder that we should communicate, pay attention, and stick around if we approve part of something to do the rest | 19:29 |
| jeblair | fungi: yep | 19:29 |
| asselin | asselin's here now | 19:30 |
| jeblair | wenlock: should we add a third item: "project-config module add commit messages should link to system-config module removals with "Needed-By:" in commit message" ? | 19:30 |
| fungi | i hear a resounding tacit approval | 19:30 |
| jeblair | #agreed when dependent puppet-module splits are completely ready to merge, a core reviewer will commit to approving them in the appropriate order or coordinate with another reviewer to take over | 19:30 |
| jeblair | #agreed system-config module removals should include Depends-On: in commit message referencing corresponding project-config module adds | 19:31 |
| wenlock | jeblair +1 | 19:31 |
| mmedvede | So both related patches should have Depends-On, or the project-config one should have something else, e.g. reminder that merging it would imply a need to merge the second one | 19:31 |
| * fungi is good with all three | 19:31 | |
| jeblair | that's a little extra work on the commit side (it will require a git commit --amend in one of the repos) | 19:31 |
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| jeblair | or, i guess, clicking that little icon in gerrit :) | 19:31 |
| fungi | or ctrl-d in gertty | 19:32 |
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| jeblair | #agreed project-config module add commit messages should link to system-config module removals with "Needed-By:" in commit message | 19:32 |
| SergeyLukjanov | +1 | 19:33 |
| jeblair | #link review these module splits: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/branch:master+topic:module-split,n,z | 19:33 |
| fungi | and i think if those are in there, wip/-2 aren't really needed to keep sanity. core reviewers caught ignoring commit messages will be summarily flogged with a fish | 19:33 |
| jeblair | fungi: a wet fish? | 19:33 |
| fungi | i was thinking perhaps a smoked mackeral | 19:33 |
| krtaylor | better than a wet cat | 19:33 |
| fungi | mackerel | 19:33 |
| jeblair | mordred is always very specific about the moisture content of his felines | 19:34 |
| clarkb | krtaylor: mordred can get the wet cats | 19:34 |
| krtaylor | lol | 19:34 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts: Nodepool DIB | 19:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts: Nodepool DIB (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:34 | |
| jeblair | anything we should be doing on this? | 19:34 |
| jeblair | i'm starting to think this needs an owner | 19:35 |
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| fungi | where did we get to last with it? | 19:36 |
| jeblair | it seems like it's been round-robining amongst mordred, clarkb, and yolanda | 19:36 |
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| fungi | we reverted the centos7 dib change because we need newer tar right? | 19:36 |
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| jeblair | oh | 19:36 |
| jeblair | from last meeting: | 19:36 |
| clarkb | we need to upgrade nodepool.o.o to trusty, fix nodepool's label can only build one type of image issue, and then kill whatever new things we discover | 19:36 |
| ianw | yes, clarkb is looking at upgrading nodepool host | 19:36 |
| fungi | so next step was going to be rebuilding the nodepool server on trusty i think?> | 19:36 |
| jeblair | 19:17:16 <clarkb> the dib mutliple outputs change merged \o/ | 19:36 |
| jeblair | 19:17:23 <clarkb> shoudl release tomorrow if dib sticks to their schedule | 19:36 |
| clarkb | fungi: yup, and I think we have everything we need to do that now | 19:36 |
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| clarkb | dib released, I tested the TMPDIR override locally | 19:37 |
| jeblair | clarkb: i have a gap in my knowledge -- why upgrade to trusty? | 19:37 |
| fungi | 0.1.35 tagged 5 days ago | 19:37 |
| ianw | i also have an issue with image labels that i will look at (been saying that for a few days) | 19:37 |
| ianw | jeblair: newer tar that supports xattr for building centos images | 19:37 |
| clarkb | jeblair: centos7 images ship a qcow2 with extended fs attributes | 19:37 |
| clarkb | jeblair: for whatever reason dib converts that image to a tar | 19:37 |
| jeblair | ah ok | 19:38 |
| clarkb | then later untars that into the dir it will chroot into | 19:38 |
| clarkb | (I still think dib should just mount the image and chroot over that but I can't get anyone to tell me why that is a bad idea) | 19:38 |
| jeblair | we need to review this change too | 19:38 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/126747/ | 19:38 |
| fungi | and precise's tar is too old tu support extended attribs | 19:38 |
| clarkb | I can rebase that change today | 19:38 |
| clarkb | and I also wrote https://review.openstack.org/#/c/130878/ | 19:39 |
| clarkb | jeblair: if you look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/130878/ that might be helpful. I got the test passing but it isn't doing what I wanted so it is WIPed | 19:39 |
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| jeblair | #link wip nodepool test change https://review.openstack.org/#/c/130878/ | 19:40 |
| clarkb | oh I think I may see a problem there | 19:40 |
| clarkb | so maybe I just needed to do something else for a day or two :) | 19:40 |
| jeblair | clarkb: how do you want to handle the nodepool trusty upgrade? | 19:40 |
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| clarkb | its a bit tricky | 19:41 |
| clarkb | the lazy in my wants to just spin up a new node, swap DNS then cleanup old slaves and images via the alien listing | 19:41 |
| clarkb | but I think alien listing only works for slaves not images? | 19:41 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: there's an 'alien-image-list' | 19:42 |
| fungi | i think we had determined that they can run in parallel for a bit if demand is low (so that we don't overrun quotas, or we cut max-servers on them for the duration), then delete alien nodes after the old one is stopped | 19:42 |
| clarkb | oh perfect than ya I think we just sort of do it without a db migratin and clean up aliens | 19:42 |
| clarkb | fungi: ya | 19:42 |
| jeblair | clarkb: zuul gearman will firewall the new server | 19:43 |
| clarkb | ya so the dns update is important | 19:43 |
| jeblair | clarkb: you could ignore that and just let it supply min-ready for a while to make sure it's working | 19:43 |
| clarkb | it will basically be our cutover | 19:43 |
| fungi | that seems pretty safe then | 19:43 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: more or less, yeah. it should be that whichever has iptables access will do the bulk of the work | 19:43 |
| jeblair | the other should only do min-ready | 19:44 |
| jeblair | (and replacements thereof when nodes are used) | 19:44 |
| clarkb | should I possibly just go ahead and spin up the replacement this afternoon? | 19:44 |
| clarkb | and we can let it build images and make min-ready nodes? | 19:44 |
| jeblair | clarkb: oh no! we'll reset the node id counter :) | 19:44 |
| clarkb | actually that may not be entirely safe | 19:44 |
| clarkb | because those nodes will end up in jenkins but we won't get the node used events | 19:44 |
| clarkb | (maybe that is ok, the node will still be single use) | 19:45 |
| jeblair | clarkb: they come from zmq... does zmq have a firewall rule too? | 19:45 |
| clarkb | ya | 19:45 |
| clarkb | on the jenkins side | 19:45 |
| fungi | oh, hrm, yeah that might get messy | 19:45 |
| clarkb | I think in that case we will have "ready" nodes that have been used | 19:45 |
| jeblair | clarkb: then if you want to run both in parallel, we probably need to manually open the firewalls | 19:45 |
| clarkb | but jenkins will only use them once | 19:45 |
| clarkb | so it should still be safe | 19:45 |
| jeblair | clarkb: yeah, but they won't ever be deleted | 19:45 |
| clarkb | they will after 8 hours right? | 19:46 |
| jeblair | clarkb: nope, ready sticks around for a while | 19:46 |
| jeblair | forever, i think? | 19:46 |
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| clarkb | gotcha | 19:46 |
| clarkb | do we want to try doing this before the summit? I will also be afk week after summit | 19:47 |
| jeblair | clarkb: so i think either manually add iptables rules for the new server, or shut it all down and do it on a saturday. :) | 19:47 |
| clarkb | I like the idea of shutting it all down simply because there is so much other stuff going on | 19:47 |
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| jeblair | my last pre-summit day is tomorrow | 19:47 |
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| fungi | i'll actually be on my way to paris tomorrow and the day after | 19:48 |
| clarkb | fungi's too iirc | 19:48 |
| clarkb | ya so lets post summit this and do it right? | 19:48 |
| fungi | leaving for the airport tomorrow morning | 19:48 |
| jeblair | clarkb: sounds like a plan | 19:48 |
| fungi | i agree | 19:48 |
| jeblair | #agreed upgrade nodepool to trusty after summit | 19:48 |
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| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts: Jobs on trusty | 19:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts: Jobs on trusty (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:49 | |
| ianw | so can we organise a restart to at least get hp centos7 jobs going? | 19:49 |
| ianw | they're currently failing on login | 19:49 |
| jeblair | ianw: shouldn't be a problem | 19:49 |
| jeblair | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/py34-transition | 19:49 |
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| fungi | yeah, inching closer | 19:50 |
| fungi | heat-translator fixed their issues, python-heatclient has a working change series up | 19:50 |
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| fungi | python-glanceclient is still stagnant | 19:50 |
| jeblair | fungi: did you bring that up at the project meeting? | 19:51 |
| fungi | and no new word on the two outstanding ubuntu bugs we need an sru to fix. hopefully ubuntuites are over their release hangovers now | 19:51 |
| fungi | jeblair: i did not bring it up at the last project meeting, no, but now that it's been sitting for a week, probably a good idea | 19:51 |
| jeblair | fungi: cool (if anyone shows up for it this week ;) | 19:52 |
| fungi | #link https://launchpad.net/bugs/1382582 | 19:52 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1382582 in python-glanceclient "untestable in Python 3.4" [Medium,Confirmed] | 19:52 |
| fungi | i guess that's been 11 days | 19:52 |
| fungi | anyway, nothing else new on this front for now | 19:52 |
| jeblair | #topic puppet-apache | 19:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "puppet-apache (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:53 | |
| jeblair | ianw: i think this is yours? | 19:53 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/129496/ | 19:53 |
| ianw | yes, i'm happy to do this as an exercise in puppet | 19:53 |
| ianw | there has been disagreement over the name | 19:54 |
| ianw | possibly disagreement over forking puppet-apache, but AFAICS we're pretty stuck if we don't | 19:54 |
| fungi | i thought the primary proposal was to fork puppet-apache simply by renaming it, and then work to incrementally migrate | 19:55 |
| ianw | yes, that is it | 19:55 |
| clarkb | fungi: what does incrementally migrate mean? | 19:55 |
| clarkb | migrate to it or away from it? | 19:55 |
| ianw | although if we want to migrate remains an open question | 19:55 |
| nibalizer | i want to fork the apache mod | 19:56 |
| fungi | clarkb: switch modules from the fork to latest upstream bit by bit | 19:56 |
| jeblair | clarkb: one .erb at a time; migrate from 0.0.4 (or our fork of it) to upstream | 19:56 |
| clarkb | fungi: see I am almost a -2 on doing that :) | 19:56 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: you want to fork it and stay on the fork? | 19:56 |
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| hogepodge | puppet-apache is a pain point for PL from what I understand. | 19:56 |
| clarkb | it will make our apache vhosts much harder to reconsume by not puppet | 19:56 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: kindof | 19:56 |
| clarkb | as we will essentially model everything in more native puppet types | 19:56 |
| nibalizer | certainly i think that is a thing we can get consensus on | 19:56 |
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| nibalizer | since clarkb loves his 0.0.4 apache mod | 19:56 |
| clarkb | which apparently makes puppet happy but files are files and should be treated as such imo | 19:56 |
| nibalizer | and honestly the design there, which is to weakly model apache, isn't bad | 19:57 |
| nibalizer | so we could keep using apache 0.0.4 on our fork, then we and our downstreams have the option to bring in a newer apache if we want | 19:57 |
| nibalizer | but at least we have the option | 19:58 |
| nibalizer | and if we want to set up a service that already had a puppet module , we wouldn't be boxed out of it | 19:58 |
| jeblair | does upstream have the capability to do things that we do in our vhosts? eg, mod_rewrite certain urls, etc? | 19:58 |
| nibalizer | if you remember i had to remove the apache dependency in the puppetboard module | 19:58 |
| fungi | well, if it's proposed as a permanent fork and not a temporary stepping-stone, i take it there's no hope of getting templated vhost support readded to latest apache module? | 19:58 |
| jeblair | i think doing so would end up with essentially a second configuration language for apache :/ | 19:59 |
| nibalizer | im not sure what the extent of the capabilities of the new apache mod it | 19:59 |
| nibalizer | is* | 19:59 |
| jeblair | i expect we may talk about this over some beer | 19:59 |
| nibalizer | but yea, the problem with the upstream apache module is you have to learn two things | 19:59 |
| nibalizer | since the puppet mod exposes apache configs into the puppet language | 19:59 |
| nibalizer | forking is nice because it says loudly that we do not expect to upgrade to latest apache | 20:00 |
| nibalizer | and if latest apache ends up in -infra for some ancillary service, im ok with that | 20:00 |
| fungi | yeah, we're out of time now anyway | 20:00 |
| jeblair | in all cases, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/129496/ seems to support any of the choices before us while getting us out of the dead-end of 0.0.4. | 20:00 |
| jeblair | so is certainly worth our review | 20:00 |
| jeblair | ianw: thanks! | 20:00 |
| jeblair | and thanks everyone else; i hope to see you next week! | 20:00 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 28 20:00:49 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-10-28-19.01.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-10-28-19.01.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-10-28-19.01.log.html | 20:00 |
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| jeblair | ttx: i took my minute back from last week | 20:01 |
| mikal | Heh | 20:01 |
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| ttx | hah | 20:01 |
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| ttx | Anyone here for the TC meeting ? | 20:01 |
| mikal | Yep | 20:01 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:01 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:01 |
| russellb | o/ | 20:02 |
| jeblair | o/ | 20:02 |
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| ttx | one more, one more | 20:02 |
| ttx | jgriffith, annegentle, mordred, devananda, vishy, markmcclain, jaypipes : around ? | 20:02 |
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| jaypipes | o/ | 20:02 |
| ttx | here we go | 20:03 |
| mikal | Anne had a doctor's appointment | 20:03 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 28 20:03:06 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:03 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 20:03 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee | 20:03 |
| ttx | #topic Board/TC joint meeting agenda | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Board/TC joint meeting agenda (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:03 | |
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| ttx | Our first item is the agenda for the Board/TC joint meeting at 2:30pm on Sunday | 20:03 |
| vishy | o/ | 20:03 |
| ttx | The agenda proposed by the board is: | 20:03 |
| ttx | - Introductions | 20:04 |
| ttx | - Followup from last joint meeting (travel support program & code review backlog) | 20:04 |
| ttx | - The need for project structure reform (Ring 0 and the big tent approach) | 20:04 |
| ttx | - Tempest and it's use to drive interoperability and DefCore | 20:04 |
| ttx | - mid cycle meetups - is there a way to reduce travel strain? | 20:04 |
| ttx | I called for topics at http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-tc/2014-October/000847.html | 20:04 |
| ttx | dhellmann wondered if we should put the CLA question on the meeting agenda | 20:04 |
| ttx | jaypipes suggested we discuss how the process by which we check for name/copyright issues for new projects can be streamlined | 20:04 |
| mikal | I think its more important than some of the other things listed there | 20:04 |
| mikal | The CLA that is | 20:05 |
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| ttx | After a few checks I'm not sure the legal namechecks one is relevant to the board, since this is currently handled by Foundation staff, so it may be better to talk to them about it first | 20:05 |
| dhellmann | I'd like an update on the CLA, but that doesn't have to happen in person. | 20:05 |
| ttx | we can discuss it in a TC meeting directly with them | 20:05 |
| sdague | yeh, the CLA seems like a thing that we need the board to take an action on, and it's been 7 or 8 months since this conversation started | 20:05 |
| jaypipes | dhellmann: ++ | 20:05 |
| jeblair | since we passed a resolution about the cla, we should probably put it on the agenda to continue to indicate we are interested in it, even if we do so in a way structured to avoid having it take the whole meeting :) | 20:05 |
| sdague | yeh | 20:06 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: ++ | 20:06 |
| ttx | jeblair: we can place it as the last item | 20:06 |
| ttx | so that it's mentioned but doesn't take the whole time | 20:06 |
| sdague | mostly, I think bringing it up will demonstrate seriousness that the TC thinks it's important | 20:06 |
| jeblair | ttx: or timebox it | 20:06 |
| ttx | yes | 20:06 |
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| mikal | I am a bit confused by some of the other board items there to be honest | 20:06 |
| ttx | I proposed a discussion of how much OpenStack (in general) should embrace Containers/Docker, as well as an update on the proposed bylaws change | 20:06 |
| ttx | Thoughts on what we should push forward ? | 20:06 |
| jeblair | sdague: yeah, and i think that's a point worth making since the board explicitly wondered whether that was the case (thus prompting the resolution) | 20:06 |
| ttx | (The meeting is only 3 hours so we might need to prioritize) | 20:07 |
| mikal | Like, do we really think mid cycle meetups is one of the biggest problems we face at the moment? | 20:07 |
| russellb | only 3 | 20:07 |
| sdague | ttx: the containers thing seems odd to me for this forum. | 20:07 |
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| russellb | sdague: that's how i felt, too | 20:07 |
| sdague | it's good beer chat, but does it really need to be a TC / Board thing? | 20:07 |
| ttx | sdague: maybe not | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | mikal: who is complaining, the person doing the travel or the person paying? | 20:07 |
| ttx | I mean, I won't push it unless someone else at the TC wants it | 20:07 |
| jaypipes | I think it does, because it goes to the general direction that we wish OpenStack to drive towards. | 20:08 |
| mikal | dhellmann: I dunno, its just on the boards list up above | 20:08 |
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| jaypipes | and I'm not just talking about technical direction. | 20:08 |
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| dhellmann | mikal: yeah, this isn't the first time I've seen it come up | 20:08 |
| ttx | jaypipes: yes, that was my idea | 20:08 |
| ttx | jaypipes: checking for general alignment on where we should go | 20:08 |
| russellb | i don't mind the business side input on direction | 20:08 |
| jaypipes | containers bring with them a paradigm shift that matters more than technology. it shapes the way app developers visualize and work with the cloud. | 20:08 |
| russellb | yeah, that seems sensible | 20:08 |
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| jaypipes | everybody run.. markmcclain is here. | 20:09 |
| russellb | run ... up to markmcclain and say hi! | 20:09 |
| ttx | jaypipes: are you fine with tabling the legal namechecks discussion to a future TC meeting with Foundation staff ? The board is not really involved with those | 20:09 |
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| jaypipes | ttx: isn't Mark Radcliffe involved in those discussions? I remember Mark being at the last Board meeitng... | 20:10 |
| ttx | jaypipes: no, the lawyer doing those checks is not Radcliffe. I fear we won't get clarification, but more confusion | 20:10 |
| jaypipes | board/TC meeting that is. | 20:10 |
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| markmcclain1 | jaypipes: haha | 20:10 |
| jaypipes | ttx: ok, no problem. i don't want more confusion. | 20:10 |
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| ttx | so, I'll ask for CLA timeboxed | 20:11 |
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| ttx | Maybe a temperature check on the Docker world | 20:11 |
| ttx | anything else ? | 20:12 |
| russellb | may need to timebox docker too | 20:12 |
| dhellmann | ++ | 20:12 |
| ttx | ack | 20:12 |
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| mikal | ttx: I think we should drop the mid-cycle thing, or at least move it later in the list | 20:12 |
| mikal | It just doens't seem that important to me | 20:12 |
| ttx | mikal: I'll suggest that. It's not on my part of the agenda :) | 20:12 |
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| mikal | ttx: ok | 20:13 |
| ttx | Note that we can probably adjust the agenda in person when the meeting starts if we havbe a brand-new idea | 20:13 |
| sdague | ttx: was that board added? | 20:13 |
| mikal | Do we need daa for the code review backlog thing? | 20:13 |
| mikal | data even | 20:13 |
| ttx | sdague: yes | 20:13 |
| sdague | ttx: ok | 20:13 |
| ttx | mikal: it wouldn't hurt | 20:13 |
| mikal | Its just a silly item | 20:13 |
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| jeblair | i do see this summit as an experiment in how we can reduce the need for midcycles; i'm not sure we're ready to discuss it again until after this summit | 20:13 |
| russellb | sdague: rob h. brought it up at a recent board meeting | 20:13 |
| russellb | i'm not sure who raised it to him | 20:13 |
| ttx | at least from Nova / Neutron who had the largest backlog | 20:13 |
| russellb | jeblair: ++ | 20:13 |
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| mikal | Its also just penny pinching | 20:14 |
| mikal | Travel is a tiny fraction of salary spend | 20:14 |
| sdague | jeblair: yeh, agreed, so maybe just make sure the time box is small on it | 20:14 |
| mikal | Sure, we should be frugal | 20:14 |
| russellb | mikal: it's more than the $ | 20:14 |
| mikal | But if its efficient, we should do it | 20:14 |
| russellb | but let's not get into it here | 20:14 |
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| ttx | mikal: being all relocated in the same office would be efficient, but we don't do it either | 20:14 |
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| russellb | right | 20:15 |
| jeblair | i second us not getting into it here :) | 20:15 |
| jaypipes | ttx: one thing that might be interesting to get the BoD feedback on is the recent Neutron core team's proposal to do peer reviews for core committers. | 20:15 |
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| jaypipes | ttx: just to get their feedback, nothing more. I'm just curious what they think. | 20:15 |
| mikal | jaypipes: it would be interesting to get feedback on how that is working out before going too far with it | 20:15 |
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| dhellmann | mikal: +1 | 20:15 |
| ttx | yeah, I agree with mikal, let's let the experiment play out | 20:15 |
| mikal | jaypipes: as in, does Kyle feel is working? Was the feedback useful? | 20:16 |
| ttx | We can give feedback on various experiments like specs now | 20:16 |
| jaypipes | mikal: they haven't started it yet :) | 20:16 |
| russellb | definitely not something i see we should push more broadly until we see how it works for them | 20:16 |
| ttx | as part of the "review backlog" discussion I guess | 20:16 |
| jeblair | with a time constraint on the agenda, i don't think that's the kind of feedback we need from the board | 20:16 |
| jaypipes | mikal: I'm more interested in just the board members thoughts on it (same with the user committee's thoughts) | 20:16 |
| russellb | ttx: sure | 20:16 |
| sdague | yeh, I'm also a little concerned with just bringing up technical policy stuff to the board to get their view on if we don't have enough time to set context | 20:16 |
| jaypipes | mikal: but, fine, it's a beer topic :) | 20:16 |
| * devananda pops in while waiting for boarding to start | 20:16 | |
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| ttx | ok, let's move on | 20:17 |
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| ttx | If you sudenly have new ideas, push them to the thread. I'll compose an answer to Alan tomorrow morning | 20:17 |
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| ttx | #topic Cross-project workshop final agenda | 20:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Cross-project workshop final agenda (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:17 | |
| ttx | russellb, markmcclain: care to present the short list ? | 20:17 |
| russellb | sure, i'll cover this | 20:18 |
| russellb | so we have a couple of things to cover on this | 20:18 |
| russellb | first, review the list of sessions and the proposed schedule for them | 20:18 |
| russellb | and if that looks good, we need to collect session leads and have the leads write up a session description that can be used on sched.org | 20:18 |
| russellb | proposed schedule: | 20:18 |
| russellb | #link http://kilodesignsummit.sched.org/overview/type/cross-project+workshops#.VE_2XHVGjUY | 20:18 |
| dhellmann | russellb: I went through and did the math for the votes so far | 20:18 |
| russellb | and then for collecting leads and descriptions: | 20:18 |
| russellb | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-crossproject-summit-topics | 20:18 |
| russellb | dhellmann: yeah we did all that this morning | 20:19 |
| russellb | and by we, i mean myself, markmcclain, and ttx | 20:19 |
| dhellmann | oh, I didn't see it in the etherpad | 20:19 |
| russellb | based on action from last week | 20:19 |
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| russellb | nah, it was done in another spreadsheet | 20:19 |
| dhellmann | k | 20:19 |
| russellb | sorry | 20:19 |
| mikal | So, that cells one confuses me | 20:19 |
| dhellmann | meh, I was bored and curious | 20:19 |
| russellb | so first, does anyone see any obvious issues with the list of sessions or conflicts in schedule? | 20:19 |
| russellb | mikal: yeah, it made the cut *shrug* | 20:20 |
| mikal | russellb: so, that makes three cells sessions a tthe summit | 20:20 |
| russellb | i think the cells one was to talk about how it impacts other projects | 20:20 |
| mikal | Which seems like too many to me | 20:20 |
| russellb | not just the nova part | 20:20 |
| mikal | Especially for a feature nova might drop | 20:20 |
| ttx | mikal: the idea was to give some outlet for epople to discuss various ways to scale out in 40min. hopefully they will meet each other and stop inventing parallel ways ? | 20:20 |
| sdague | mikal: well not if it means people actually work on it :) | 20:20 |
| russellb | another part of that was merging in the huawei thing | 20:20 |
| mikal | Ok, so rename it then | 20:21 |
| russellb | there's a double session in the nova track too, i know | 20:21 |
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| ttx | all the similar topics were merged, so I don't expect it to be a cells thing. More of a Cells vs. Cascade vs. Z | 20:21 |
| mikal | I'd be ok with it if it was called "scaling openstack" or something | 20:21 |
| mikal | But its named "...with cells" | 20:21 |
| mikal | Which is the bit that confuses me | 20:21 |
| ttx | yes, name should change | 20:21 |
| russellb | k | 20:21 |
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| ttx | I'd say "Scaling out: Cells, Cascading, Alliance, etc" | 20:22 |
| mikal | Or name none | 20:22 |
| mikal | "Proposals for scaling out OpenStack" | 20:22 |
| russellb | Approaches for Scaling Out ? | 20:22 |
| ttx | russell++ | 20:22 |
| mikal | Yeah, that would do | 20:22 |
| markmcclain | Rather name none | 20:22 |
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| russellb | k, sched updated | 20:23 |
| ttx | well, sched caches, so ymmv | 20:23 |
| mikal | Ta | 20:23 |
| russellb | i had john g. listed as leading that, since he proposed the cells one in the etherpad | 20:23 |
| russellb | he's also listed on at least one other, though | 20:23 |
| ttx | who can lead the API WG one ? jaypipes ? | 20:23 |
| mikal | russellb: John would do a good job of it, depends if we think two is too many for one person | 20:23 |
| ttx | though you already have the technbical debt one I suspect | 20:24 |
| russellb | mikal: ok, I can ask him what he thinks, will CC you | 20:24 |
| jaypipes | yes, though I'd love it if the part 1 and part 2 were separated... I really wanted to attend the functional tesst in projects session. | 20:24 |
| mikal | russellb: works for me | 20:24 |
| jaypipes | heck i'd love to go to the common approach to ha one too :) | 20:25 |
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| russellb | jaypipes: yeah, scheduling this stuff is fun. | 20:25 |
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| jaypipes | russellb: yeah, i know :) | 20:25 |
| russellb | if anyone has proposed leads for any of the stuff on the etherpad, fill it in | 20:25 |
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| russellb | some may have it later in the etherpad and i just haven't gone back to find it yet | 20:25 |
| jaypipes | russellb: suggestion... perhaps we could swap the api wg part 2 with the growth challenges part 1? | 20:26 |
| jeblair | i don't think the intent there is to actually have two parts, but rather combine them into one long session | 20:26 |
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| jaypipes | russellb: and have a morning and afternoon session on those topics? | 20:26 |
| russellb | yeah, was thinking it was one long session | 20:26 |
| jaypipes | jeblair: yes, I know... but ... just offering an alternative. | 20:26 |
| ttx | yes, it's one long session | 20:26 |
| jeblair | i think breaking them up would disrupt the idea of being able to have longer-form sessions on some topics | 20:26 |
| sdague | jeblair: ++ | 20:26 |
| ttx | 90min instead of 2x40min | 20:27 |
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| ttx | I think it needs 90min in one block | 20:27 |
| russellb | we could maybe move "moving testing ot projects" elsewhere | 20:27 |
| russellb | it's a bad conflict no matter where it moved to | 20:28 |
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| devananda | I'm wondering who else feels that the necesity of attending the cross project sessions pretty nearly trumps all the sessions and panels on Tuesday | 20:28 |
| russellb | devananda: that's my general feeling, yes | 20:28 |
| ttx | russellb: maybe swap it with the reaquirements session ? | 20:28 |
| sdague | devananda: yep | 20:28 |
| jeblair | devananda: i feel that way for the whole summit, but yes :) | 20:28 |
| devananda | thankfully i don't have any speaking commits on tuesday | 20:28 |
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| devananda | but a bunch of panels that I really want to attend are on tuesday ... | 20:28 |
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| russellb | jaypipes: if we do the swap ttx suggests, it conflicts with the "scaling out" thing | 20:29 |
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| russellb | and docs | 20:29 |
| russellb | jaypipes: that better? | 20:29 |
| jaypipes | devananda: unfortunately, I have to give a presentation at the conf side on tues... | 20:29 |
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| jaypipes | and monday, and wednesday... | 20:29 |
| russellb | jaypipes: sucker | 20:29 |
| russellb | :-p | 20:29 |
| ttx | jaypipes: one would think you would know to avoid the CFP by now | 20:29 |
| jaypipes | russellb: lookign... | 20:30 |
| devananda | 16:40 gerrit third-party CI && growth challenges p1. | 20:30 |
| russellb | honestly, it's a shame more people from dev community don't present because of the pressure we have to attend design summit stuff | 20:30 |
| devananda | are there people who need to be in both of those? | 20:30 |
| sdague | russellb: well that was one of the reasons for the offset | 20:30 |
| russellb | sdague: true, speak on monday | 20:30 |
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| fungi | gerrit third-party ci does in fact seem related to growth challenges | 20:30 |
| jaypipes | russellb: yeah, unfortunately I'd love to be at the scaling out session :) it's ok, i'll just deal with it. I do every time anyway.. we all do. :) | 20:31 |
| jaypipes | try and catch a bit of each. | 20:31 |
| sdague | jaypipes: ++ | 20:31 |
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| russellb | depends on what the 3rd party meetup is about | 20:31 |
| jaypipes | ttx: I'm happy to lead the first part of the API WG, and maybe etoews will take up the latter part so I can catch some of the func testing session | 20:31 |
| russellb | but yeah, definite overlap | 20:31 |
| devananda | none of the other design things on tuesday stand out as single-person conflicts within the design track | 20:32 |
| ttx | fungi: unfortunately there is little ways to avoid that one. | 20:32 |
| devananda | *to me | 20:32 |
| ttx | fungi: We want that one at a moment where only one other workshop runs. That's either at the start or the end of the day | 20:32 |
| fungi | fair enough, just agreeing with devananda's point | 20:33 |
| russellb | who would lead "moving tests to projects" ? | 20:33 |
| ttx | I run that session and I also need to be at the Design Summit 101 | 20:33 |
| devananda | fungi: ttx: could we move gerrit 3rd party one slot earlier? | 20:33 |
| devananda | russellb: mtreinish or sdague? | 20:33 |
| * annegentle lurks after appointment and catches up | 20:33 | |
| devananda | that seems related to tempest-lib IIUC | 20:33 |
| ttx | devananda: then we have 3 parallel workshops at the same time as the beginning of the growth discussion | 20:34 |
| ttx | devananda: what would you swap it with ? | 20:34 |
| jaypipes | russellb, ttx: crap... no, that won't work. I'm giving my talk on tuesday at 11:15 :( so I would not be able to attend the API WG session. | 20:34 |
| russellb | jaypipes: :( | 20:34 |
| russellb | yeah, definitely hoped you could be at that one | 20:34 |
| jaypipes | russellb: sorry: https://openstacksummitnovember2014paris.sched.org/event/0a602a57f19a73c9995dfb88f22a1538#.VE_90R8aekA | 20:34 |
| ttx | jaypipes: you can still ask to move to another time on the conf side | 20:34 |
| fungi | devananda: i think the only critical timing concern on third-party testing cross-project discussion was that it come before project-specific third-party testing sessions, but that will be the case regardless | 20:34 |
| russellb | ttx: ++ :) | 20:34 |
| annegentle | jaypipes: I can help with API WG and ask Everett Toews if he's available. | 20:34 |
| mtreinish | devananda: the functional testing one, I think dkranz put it in the list | 20:34 |
| jaypipes | ttx: k, lemme see what I can do. | 20:34 |
| ttx | like on Monday or Wednesday | 20:34 |
| devananda | time for me to board a plane ... | 20:34 |
| russellb | devananda: o/ | 20:35 |
| jaypipes | annegentle: that would be swell. i can make the second half of the API WG session (or most of it at least) | 20:35 |
| sdague | yeh, do we have existing session leaders for most of these? (defaulting to proposer I'd assume) | 20:35 |
| ttx | fungi: I think anteaya wants the 3rd-party CI discussion as a feedback session | 20:35 |
| russellb | sdague: trying to sort that out | 20:35 |
| russellb | etherpad is kind of a mess | 20:35 |
| sdague | ok | 20:36 |
| annegentle | jaypipes: okay, sounds good, what's the time again? for API WG? | 20:36 |
| russellb | most of them don't have a proposer listed | 20:36 |
| sdague | russellb: oh, bummer | 20:36 |
| ttx | Anyway, I propose we push that schedule publicly and we see what conflicts people start to report | 20:36 |
| russellb | basically i added a new section at the top of the pad to try to clarify it | 20:36 |
| russellb | still missing a bunch | 20:36 |
| ttx | because I expect some PTLs to complain too | 20:36 |
| jaypipes | annegentle: 11:15am on Tues | 20:36 |
| sdague | I'm pleading ignorance as this is second day back, so still getting up to speed on the schedule :) | 20:36 |
| russellb | sdague: wb! | 20:37 |
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| jaypipes | indeed, wb sdague | 20:37 |
| russellb | so, should we sort out session leads async? i can post to -dev list asking for volunteers ... | 20:37 |
| russellb | or we can try to burn through it now | 20:37 |
| annegentle | shoot I'm in the Design Summit 101 also with ttx | 20:37 |
| jaypipes | russellb: I think that's the best bet. | 20:37 |
| annegentle | guess it's on Everett | 20:37 |
| ttx | annegentle: yay! | 20:37 |
| sdague | yeh, ML might be good to flush out the original proposers | 20:37 |
| russellb | sdague: ++ | 20:37 |
| russellb | ttx: can you raise this at the next meeting, too? | 20:38 |
| jaypipes | russellb: so did the scheduler/gantt proposed session get nixed? not enough interest? :( | 20:38 |
| sdague | and if there are still gaps tomorrow this time, play a game of who's it | 20:38 |
| ttx | russellb: sure | 20:38 |
| russellb | jaypipes: score of 0 | 20:38 |
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| russellb | jaypipes: lack of interest, and a few -1s ... mainly that for now, it's a nova concern | 20:38 |
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| ttx | I think Nova scheduled two sessions on that topic | 20:39 |
| russellb | get the split done ... too many people only want to talk about steps 12-18, and not the work that needs to get done first | 20:39 |
| russellb | IMO | 20:39 |
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| sdague | russellb: +1000 | 20:39 |
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| annegentle | only steps 1-7 may be discussed :) | 20:40 |
| ttx | OK, let's move on -- russellb: post the selection to the ML and ask for leads ? | 20:40 |
| jaypipes | russellb: k, understood (and I agree with you on that) | 20:40 |
| russellb | cool | 20:40 |
| russellb | ttx: wfm | 20:40 |
| jeblair | after that, any session without a lead gets mordred as the lead | 20:40 |
| jaypipes | russellb: course, that doesn't mean I won't be inundated with NFV people asking me about it... but whatevs :) | 20:40 |
| russellb | jaypipes: ha, i feel your pain. | 20:40 |
| ttx | #topic Governance for the openstack-specs repo | 20:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Governance for the openstack-specs repo (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:40 | |
| ttx | A few weeks ago we allowed the creation of an openstack-specs repo for truly cross-project specs, and it was created as a TC-owned repository | 20:41 |
| ttx | The question left is... how should we manage this repo ? who should get +1/+2... ? | 20:41 |
| jeblair | well, everyone should get +1 i think :) | 20:41 |
| russellb | jeblair: +1 | 20:41 |
| annegentle | great starting point jeblair | 20:41 |
| annegentle | :) | 20:41 |
| russellb | I think starting with TC as the group with +2 seems sane | 20:41 |
| russellb | and see how it goes | 20:41 |
| jeblair | maybe even -1? :) | 20:41 |
| sdague | yeh tc as -core group seems sane | 20:42 |
| russellb | not that we have *ALL* the expertise, but can work toward consensus, take all the inputs, etc, just like other cross project issues | 20:42 |
| sdague | and normal review criteria for everyone else | 20:42 |
| jeblair | should we put specs on the agenda before final approval? | 20:42 |
| jogo | there is also the question of what it means for a spec to be approved there. Do all projects have to implement it now? etc. | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | yeah, we may also want a different approval policy for that repo | 20:43 |
| ttx | jogo: I guess it depends on the content of the spec | 20:43 |
| mikal | I like the idea of an in-meeting check point before approving | 20:43 |
| jeblair | like "this spec is ready for approval, put it on the tc meeting agenda for a final call for tc review, and approve in more or less the normal tc way?" | 20:43 |
| russellb | a doc on expectations around this sounds like a ncie idea | 20:43 |
| russellb | perhaps even a spec on specs! | 20:43 |
| sdague | is that something we can have in the specs cross project session ? | 20:43 |
| russellb | sdague: ++ | 20:43 |
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| mtreinish | we try to do the meeting check in for qa specs, it's only moderately successful there... | 20:44 |
| jaypipes | why can't we handle it similarly to how we handle openstack/governance? | 20:44 |
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| dhellmann | jaypipes: yeah, that's more or less how we do oslo specs | 20:44 |
| annegentle | one final vote? | 20:44 |
| sdague | jaypipes: and have ttx approve it all? | 20:44 |
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| jaypipes | and have ttx (or someone else?) be the only +2/+W'er, and have a policy of quorum or consensus that is enforced by ttx. | 20:44 |
| dhellmann | sdague: right | 20:44 |
| ttx | jaypipes: depends on how "similar" it is | 20:44 |
| jaypipes | sdague: yeah. | 20:44 |
| ttx | someone else++ | 20:44 |
| jaypipes | doesn't have to be ttx of course. | 20:45 |
| * jaypipes nominates annegentle | 20:45 | |
| sdague | I kind of like the idea that cross project specs have the ability for any community member to +1/-1 feedback | 20:45 |
| jaypipes | sdague: of course, that wouldn't change... | 20:45 |
| annegentle | heh | 20:45 |
| sdague | well it's not the way governance works | 20:45 |
| jaypipes | sdague: ? sure it is. | 20:45 |
| russellb | nah | 20:45 |
| sdague | nope | 20:45 |
| dansmith | nope | 20:45 |
| ttx | jaypipes: only TC members can +1 | 20:45 |
| russellb | only TC can +1/-1 | 20:45 |
| annegentle | it has to get as least as many votes as the TC election :) | 20:46 |
| ttx | and I just tally the votes | 20:46 |
| dansmith | I was disappointed I couln't +1 things in governance | 20:46 |
| jaypipes | oh... | 20:46 |
| jaypipes | well I be darned. | 20:46 |
| dhellmann | sdague: it's more like oslo-specs, where anyone can vote, cores can vote 2, and by agreement only I approve things | 20:46 |
| jeblair | anyone can leave a message of course | 20:46 |
| russellb | we could revisit that idea i guess | 20:46 |
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| russellb | but anyway, i like everyone having +1/-1 on the specs | 20:46 |
| annegentle | I think for cross project you're gonna need to gather more consensus | 20:46 |
| jaypipes | well, sorry about that. I was misinformed. | 20:46 |
| ttx | jeblair: could we have TC members do +2 and I would tally +2 with Workflow+1 instead ? | 20:46 |
| russellb | in theory governance has the same cross project impact | 20:46 |
| annegentle | so everyone +1/-1 is a good thing | 20:46 |
| ttx | that would allow "normal people" to +1 | 20:46 |
| sdague | ttx: yeh, that might be fine | 20:46 |
| jeblair | ttx: -2 is a problem | 20:46 |
| sdague | jeblair: is it? | 20:47 |
| ttx | sdague: I think we suggested that back then | 20:47 |
| russellb | anyone remember why we did that for governance? | 20:47 |
| mikal | I think we could all just agree that only ttx +A's | 20:47 |
| jeblair | may i have the floor? :) | 20:47 |
| * ttx passes the mike to jeblair | 20:47 | |
| russellb | jeblair takes the meeting lock | 20:47 |
| * markmcclain1 wonders why that is not a feature of meetbot | 20:47 | |
| jeblair | part of why governance is structured the way it is is due to limitations in a previous version of gerrit, and partially to make sure that the voting (since we _actually_ vote) is clear | 20:47 |
| jeblair | since we have upgraded gerrit, we do have more options than before | 20:48 |
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| vishy | hot spec on spec action: http://cdn.vectorstock.com/i/composite/66,23/spectacles-vector-6623.jpg | 20:48 |
| jeblair | so if we would like to enable +/-1 for everyone while maintaining the ability to discern tc votes, i believe we can come up with a proposal for that | 20:48 |
| annegentle | vishy: SNORT | 20:48 |
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| jeblair | it will still be something different than the process used for other repos, but i think we can work it out | 20:48 |
| jeblair | is that something the tc would like us to do? | 20:49 |
| russellb | new column for TC votes or something? | 20:49 |
| sdague | jeblair: so I think it's also OK to use normal core rev rules. TC members -1 things for 'needs more work' and -2 for 'hell no' | 20:49 |
| ttx | being able to record random +1/-1 sounds like a good thing, yes | 20:49 |
| jeblair | russellb: that may be an option | 20:49 |
| jeblair | sdague: -2s block | 20:49 |
| sdague | jeblair: yes | 20:49 |
| jeblair | sdague: no tc member gets a veto | 20:49 |
| russellb | i think so yes, i'd love to see a proposal for it | 20:49 |
| sdague | for specs? | 20:49 |
| jeblair | sdague: i believe governance is the repo under discussion? | 20:49 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I think in this case blocking is a feature | 20:49 |
| ttx | sdague: we are discussing governance now | 20:49 |
| sdague | oh... sorry | 20:49 |
| sdague | I missed a context switch | 20:50 |
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| jaypipes | jeblair: I'm certainly interested in a proposal to do that. | 20:50 |
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| * dhellmann missed the context switch to | 20:50 | |
| fungi | -1..+1 for peanut gallery, -1..+2 for tc members, 0..+1 workflow for tc chair? | 20:50 |
| russellb | yeah, tangent | 20:50 |
| ttx | we can workl something out for governance, but that's pretty off-topic | 20:50 |
| ttx | fungi: something like that yes | 20:50 |
| jeblair | fungi: that still doesn't work | 20:50 |
| sdague | yeh, governance repo discussion to tc list? | 20:50 |
| jeblair | sdague: please no | 20:51 |
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| fungi | meh, right, tc -1 is different from peanut gallery -1 | 20:51 |
| russellb | because tc -1 is different than general -1 | 20:51 |
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| annegentle | it's pretty relevant though to cross project and api wg repos | 20:51 |
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| jeblair | what i would like to do is come back to the tc with a proposal that meets the requirements | 20:51 |
| jeblair | rather than designing something in this meeting | 20:51 |
| ttx | so.. back to openstack-specs | 20:51 |
| ttx | jeblair: can you propose something for that as well ? | 20:51 |
| russellb | what are the requirements for specs though | 20:51 |
| markmcclain1 | jeblair: +1 | 20:52 |
| dhellmann | I'm happy with the way the governance repo works now, and I think we can manage the openstack-specs repo by consensus that only the appointed person approves | 20:52 |
| russellb | liek any other repo? | 20:52 |
| russellb | and tc as -core ? | 20:52 |
| jeblair | yeah, i think i know the requirements for governance, but i don't know them for specs | 20:52 |
| russellb | i think ^^^ works for me for specs | 20:52 |
| ttx | works for me too | 20:52 |
| dhellmann | russellb: +1 | 20:52 |
| sdague | russellb: yeh, +1 | 20:52 |
| jeblair | that gives tc members veto | 20:52 |
| ttx | maybe with some rule that we want more than 2 approvers, but taht can be figured out as we go | 20:53 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: yes, that's what we want for specs | 20:53 |
| ttx | jeblair: sounds reasonable for specs | 20:53 |
| jeblair | sounds like a starting point i guess :) | 20:53 |
| ttx | so we don't really need a secretary to tally votes like for govrenance | 20:53 |
| russellb | yeah | 20:53 |
| sdague | yep | 20:53 |
| russellb | (re: starting point) | 20:53 |
| jeblair | i do still think that final approval should happen after it hits the meeting agenda | 20:54 |
| ttx | just do the usual core dance | 20:54 |
| russellb | jeblair: ++ | 20:54 |
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| dhellmann | jeblair: ++ | 20:54 |
| markmcclain1 | jeblair: ++ | 20:54 |
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| russellb | but only 2 +2s before +W? | 20:54 |
| russellb | or more? | 20:54 |
| annegentle | seems like you need +2 from affected PTLs? | 20:54 |
| russellb | or just let people use good sense? | 20:54 |
| dhellmann | russellb: I look for broad consensus on oslo-specs before I approve them | 20:54 |
| jeblair | annegentle: affected ptls may not have +2 | 20:54 |
| annegentle | but that's gaterhing consensus | 20:54 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: yeah, I'd look for a +1 | 20:54 |
| ttx | maybe +1s forom affected ptls | 20:54 |
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| jeblair | yeah | 20:54 |
| annegentle | okay that works too as long as they're aware, voting, we know there is consensus gathered | 20:55 |
| ttx | jeblair: you up for proposing a technical solution for both ? | 20:55 |
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| sdague | or you just talk to people and be reasonable | 20:55 |
| russellb | sdague: that. | 20:55 |
| sdague | which is typically what happens in the specs today | 20:55 |
| dhellmann | sdague: we could do with more of that | 20:55 |
| jaypipes | sdague: be reasonable? what's wrong with you! :P | 20:56 |
| jeblair | ttx: it sounds like we have what we need for specs; or do you want me to write the process doc? | 20:56 |
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| jeblair | ttx: and yes, i will make a proposal for governance | 20:56 |
| russellb | yeah, sounds like specs is just like everything else | 20:56 |
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| ttx | #action jeblair to propose some novel Gerrit rules solution for governance repo | 20:56 |
| ttx | jeblair: maybe write it up ? | 20:56 |
| jeblair | ttx: can do | 20:56 |
| russellb | but we could probably still use a general guidelines doc on cross project specs to clarify for people what kind of consensus we'll be looking for | 20:56 |
| ttx | (the openstack-specs rules) | 20:56 |
| jeblair | yep. should i propose that to openstack-specs or governance? | 20:57 |
| ttx | #action jeblair to write up proposed Gerrit rules for openstack-specs repo | 20:57 |
| ttx | jeblair: openstack-specs I'd say | 20:57 |
| russellb | cool. | 20:57 |
| annegentle | jeblair: ttx: okay to also consider the api wg repo as well in your proposal? Seems more efficient | 20:57 |
| ttx | self-documentation | 20:57 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: I thought we said the wg would have +2 in that repo | 20:57 |
| russellb | api wg repo deserves its own consideration | 20:57 |
| russellb | maybe we can just cover that next week? | 20:57 |
| ttx | annegentle: api wg is a bit of another beast, I'd like them to self-organize first | 20:57 |
| russellb | ttx: ++ | 20:58 |
| ttx | no need to impose process externally | 20:58 |
| ttx | let's see what they come up with | 20:58 |
| ttx | ok, let's run through the other items in agenda | 20:58 |
| ttx | #topic Other governance changes | 20:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Other governance changes (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:58 | |
| ttx | I have two changes from mordred that are blocked, couldn't really get hold of him, but I'll soon corner him physically | 20:59 |
| ttx | * Remove support for vendor extensions from our code (https://review.openstack.org/122968) | 20:59 |
| ttx | * Add a docs environment to the testing interface (https://review.openstack.org/119875) | 20:59 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:59 | |
| ttx | Anything urgent to discuss, anyone ? | 20:59 |
| russellb | looking forward to seeing you all in person soon! | 20:59 |
| ttx | Question about upcoming BoD/TC meeting, Design Summit etv ? | 20:59 |
| dhellmann | same! | 20:59 |
| ttx | etc | 20:59 |
| sdague | yep, definitely | 20:59 |
| markmcclain1 | yeah.. will be good to get in same room | 21:00 |
| russellb | esp for the big governance changes discussion ... | 21:00 |
| ttx | around the same dinner table too | 21:00 |
| russellb | really need some real-time chat time on that | 21:00 |
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| markmcclain1 | food for thought… but don't want to discuss now: should we be considering an in person TC meetup 2015 Q1? | 21:00 |
| ttx | ok then, safe travels | 21:00 |
| jeblair | see you in paris! | 21:00 |
| annegentle | where are the pods ttx? | 21:00 |
| dhellmann | russellb: maybe we should plan to have lunch together once or twice so we can cover that? | 21:00 |
| dhellmann | (everyone, not just the 2 of us :-) | 21:00 |
| ttx | annegentle: in the Design Summit space (Le Meridien) | 21:00 |
| mikal | markmcclain1: I like the idea | 21:00 |
| annegentle | okay thanks | 21:00 |
| * jaypipes will come to TC dinner dressed in a giant tent. | 21:00 | |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 28 21:01:00 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-10-28-20.03.html | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-10-28-20.03.txt | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-10-28-20.03.log.html | 21:01 |
| mestery | jaypipes: lol | 21:01 |
| dhellmann | ttx: is there a project meeting today? | 21:01 |
| russellb | i'm coming as a Tipi | 21:01 |
| * marun is disappointed that nova/neutron integration didn't make the cut for a cross-project summit session :( | 21:01 | |
| markmcclain1 | jaypipes: making halloween a full weekend? | 21:01 |
| ttx | dhellmann: quick one | 21:01 |
| jeblair | ttx: do you have a handy link to venue maps? | 21:01 |
| jaypipes | markmcclain1: you know it. | 21:01 |
| russellb | marun: it wasn't even on the list IIRC | 21:01 |
| russellb | nobody proposed it. | 21:01 |
| dhellmann | ttx: ok, I need to drop off soon | 21:01 |
| ttx | jeblair: no handy link | 21:01 |
| mikal | I need to drop off now | 21:01 |
| mikal | Laters | 21:01 |
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| ttx | dhellmann, morganfainberg, notmyname, eglynn, nikhil_k, thingee, asalkeld, david-lyle, mestery, SlickNik, SergeyLukjanov: around ? | 21:01 |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 21:01 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 21:01 |
| mestery | o/ | 21:01 |
| * marun looks pointedly at markmcclain1, who made noises about proposing such a session | 21:01 | |
| asalkeld | o/ | 21:01 |
| nikhil_k | o/ | 21:01 |
| notmyname | here | 21:01 |
| eglynn | hola | 21:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting project | 21:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 28 21:02:01 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'project' | 21:02 |
| dhellmann | marun: if it was only 2 projects, it wouldn't have made the list anyway | 21:02 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 21:02 |
| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ProjectMeeting | 21:02 |
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| ttx | #topic Final Design Summit scheduling | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Final Design Summit scheduling (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:02 | |
| russellb | dhellmann: likely, yes ... though those 2 projects usually have packed agendas and a hard time getting together | 21:02 |
| ttx | We seem to have everything on the agenda at this point, except... | 21:02 |
| russellb | so would have been worth considering ... | 21:02 |
| * ttx refreshes | 21:02 | |
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| dhellmann | russellb: we should call it "all projects" instead of "cross projects" | 21:02 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, I've pushed sahara sessions | 21:02 |
| russellb | dhellmann: heh | 21:02 |
| ttx | except TripleO | 21:03 |
| russellb | dhellmann: cross project, with preference for all project | 21:03 |
| russellb | doesn't have a good ring to it | 21:03 |
| * russellb gets out of ttx's meeting ... | 21:03 | |
| ttx | Note that I changed a few titles so that it's clearer which project each session belongs to | 21:03 |
| ttx | since they won't appear in cheerful colors in the mobile app | 21:03 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I have to drop off, but I'll look at the logs tonight in case there's something you need from me | 21:04 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: sure! | 21:04 |
| jeblair | ttx: thank you for that | 21:04 |
| ttx | One session is unassigned in QA | 21:04 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, yeah, it's a good idea, last time there were some very unclear titles (one of them were sahara session :) ) | 21:04 |
| ttx | we just published the tentative cross-project workshops | 21:04 |
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| jeblair | ttx: mtreinish and i have a plan for that | 21:04 |
| * asalkeld goes to look at cross projects | 21:04 | |
| ttx | mtreinish: do you plan to make use of that unassigned session ? | 21:05 |
| ttx | jeblair: oh | 21:05 |
| david-lyle | o/ | 21:05 |
| notmyname | ttx: thanks for fixing the titles | 21:05 |
| jeblair | ttx: iiuc, we have put a joint infra/qa topic on formalizing gating strategies in there | 21:05 |
| ttx | notmyname: feel free to refix them if they look bad | 21:05 |
| russellb | cross project stuff: http://kilodesignsummit.sched.org/overview/type/cross-project+workshops#.VFAFFXVGjUa | 21:05 |
| notmyname | ttx: looks fine from my perspective | 21:05 |
| eglynn | hmmm, the cross-project session on notifications made the cut | 21:05 |
| eglynn | http://kilodesignsummit.sched.org/event/0b6e7e23da3d4fdcdc5cec0777b92c6a#.VFAE-opziVo | 21:05 |
| jeblair | ttx: it was contingent on functional testing being approved as a cross project (which it was), so i believe it's spoken for and mtreinish should be able to push the updated schedule | 21:05 |
| ttx | everyone: note that if you want to edit scheduled sessions in my crappy UI, you'll have to unschedule slots before you can edit them | 21:06 |
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| ttx | then schedule them again and push to sched | 21:06 |
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| russellb | eglynn: and still need a session lead for that btw | 21:06 |
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| mtreinish | ttx: yeah I'm going to update the schedule nowish | 21:06 |
| * eglynn wonders if we need the ceilometer-specific session on notifications-as-a-contract also | 21:06 | |
| russellb | eglynn: would you be interested in leading it? | 21:06 |
| eglynn | russellb: jd__ is leading the ceilo session | 21:06 |
| russellb | ah OK | 21:06 |
| thingee | ttx: I have verified firefox works for me, but not the latest chrome. re: my email earlier about pushing the sched | 21:06 |
| asalkeld | russellb, who leads these? | 21:06 |
| russellb | asalkeld: still trying to figure that out | 21:07 |
| ttx | We need leads for all the cross-project sessions, to make sure they are going somewhere | 21:07 |
| russellb | most sessions didn't have obvious proposers listed | 21:07 |
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| asalkeld | I fleshed 2 out | 21:07 |
| russellb | asalkeld: i have you down for the upgrades one, as i think you proposed it? | 21:07 |
| ttx | russellb: etherpad link for that ? | 21:07 |
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| asalkeld | ha and upgrades | 21:07 |
| russellb | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-crossproject-summit-topics | 21:07 |
| eglynn | russellb: I'll chat with jd__ about it tmrw, we could decide to "repurpose" the ceilo session | 21:07 |
| asalkeld | but big topics | 21:07 |
| asalkeld | happy for others to get involved | 21:07 |
| russellb | asalkeld: i know dansmith is willing to help on the upgrades one, to give info on what nova has been doing, and some related things coming | 21:07 |
| asalkeld | great | 21:07 |
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| ttx | So, please check the proposed schedule for conflicts, maybe we can move things around to facilitate your life | 21:08 |
| asalkeld | it's a shame beekhof is not coming to summit | 21:08 |
| russellb | asalkeld: indeed, i've never met him in person | 21:08 |
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| jeblair | ttx: if mtreinish doesn't update the qa slot, here's text that could go into it: http://paste.openstack.org/show/126134/ | 21:08 |
| ttx | Although the cross-project workshops current schedule is alkready the result of a lot of tweaks and we have trouble changing it at this point without breaking someone | 21:09 |
| mtreinish | jeblair: I just pushed the update | 21:09 |
| ttx | jeblair: mtreinish said he would update nowish | 21:09 |
| eglynn | breaking someone == causing conflicts? | 21:09 |
| ttx | eglynn: yes | 21:09 |
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| eglynn | cool, got it | 21:09 |
| asalkeld | russellb / ttx, will there be some kind of ml thread to figure out who is leading the cross project sessions | 21:09 |
| jeblair | ttx, mtreinish: cool, thanks. sorry i missed that, it wasn't in yellow. :) | 21:09 |
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| ttx | asalkeld: we have an etherpad, and russellb will push a thread about it | 21:10 |
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| ttx | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-crossproject-summit-topics | 21:10 |
| asalkeld | cool, thx | 21:10 |
| russellb | asalkeld: yes, starting a thread now-ish | 21:10 |
| russellb | for the future, should really have some more formatting around idea proposals | 21:10 |
| russellb | including a lead for every proposal | 21:10 |
| russellb | this was a mess | 21:11 |
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| asalkeld | yip | 21:11 |
| russellb | downside of using an etherpad instead of the system from before | 21:11 |
| asalkeld | so I happy to help with both upgrades and ha | 21:11 |
| ttx | russellb: yes, the etherpad-driven thing works well until you reach critical mass of proposers | 21:11 |
| russellb | asalkeld: anyone else that should be listed for HA? | 21:11 |
| eglynn | also, how about including the PTL group in the session voting? | 21:11 |
| eglynn | (as opposed to just the TC) | 21:11 |
| asalkeld | russellb, you could ask for interested parties | 21:12 |
| russellb | OK | 21:12 |
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| asalkeld | lots of RHT and miratis folk are interested in HA | 21:12 |
| * russellb nods | 21:12 | |
| ttx | eglynn: yes, I agree | 21:12 |
| ttx | no need to limit voting | 21:12 |
| russellb | eglynn: +1 | 21:13 |
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| russellb | asalkeld: fabio will be there | 21:13 |
| asalkeld | nice | 21:13 |
| eglynn | yeah just gonna suggest fabio also | 21:13 |
| jeblair | i don't think there's a need to limit feedback. i do think there's a need to limit voting. we are asking the tc to exercise some judgement and discretion here. | 21:13 |
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| eglynn | jeblair: well, I think the PTLs have plenty of judgement and discretion | 21:14 |
| ttx | jeblair: the selection is not necessarily the highest votes, depends on what gets selected and what can be merged, too | 21:14 |
| ttx | so we exercise discretion when we make the final selection, not necessarily when we vote :) | 21:15 |
| jeblair | ttx: you said "no need to limit voting" i was responding to 'voting' :) | 21:15 |
| jeblair | ttx: that works :) | 21:15 |
| jeblair | and is in fact what we did in infra | 21:15 |
| jeblair | i also don't believe ptls or anyone was excluded this time | 21:16 |
| jeblair | i believe i saw quite a bit of feedback on the etherpad | 21:16 |
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| ttx | the preamble at the top discouraged non-TC-members from voting though | 21:16 |
| ttx | which is I think what eglynn is referring to | 21:16 |
| ttx | heck, we should use Gerrit for this | 21:17 |
| ttx | :) | 21:17 |
| eglynn | yeah I assumed it was a TC-only deal on the voting, apols if I misread that | 21:17 |
| ttx | anyway, that's a tangent again | 21:17 |
| jeblair | i have this natural inclination not to call something "voting" if the tally of results doesn't count. ttx, i think we're getting hung up on terminology :) | 21:18 |
| ttx | any other question/ urgent action to take wrt: Design Summit ? | 21:18 |
| ttx | jeblair: that's a thing we do indeed | 21:18 |
| mtreinish | ttx: is it a good time to bring up scheduling conflicts? | 21:18 |
| ttx | mtreinish: as good as any | 21:18 |
| eglynn | ttx: when does the schedule need to be absolute finalized? | 21:19 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, do we have a venue map? (what's the distance between design summit sessions and summit itself) | 21:19 |
| ttx | it's literally across the street | 21:19 |
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| ttx | I don't have a handy map | 21:19 |
| mtreinish | well I haven't seen mikal, but there is overlap with nova's functional testing and the qa track | 21:19 |
| jeblair | i could only find one for the conference | 21:19 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, ok, across the street is enough to know, thx | 21:19 |
| jeblair | mtreinish: mikal said he had to drop | 21:20 |
| ttx | eglynn: in theory, today, but if we push changes they should be picked up until the end of the week | 21:20 |
| mtreinish | jeblair: ah, ok | 21:20 |
| ttx | the mobile app does async updates with sched | 21:20 |
| ttx | so the sooner we are final the less confusion we generate | 21:20 |
| eglynn | cool | 21:20 |
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| * ttx looks for a venue map | 21:21 | |
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| jeblair | https://www.openstack.org/summit/openstack-paris-summit-2014/venue-maps/ seems to be conference only | 21:21 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, jeblair, I'll join infra/qa/release meetup only afternoon, so, I hope not to miss something important | 21:21 |
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| jeblair | SergeyLukjanov: good to know, thanks | 21:21 |
| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: ok | 21:22 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | (due to the sahara meetup before afternoon) | 21:22 |
| curtis_p | pwd | 21:24 |
| asalkeld | /tmp | 21:24 |
| asalkeld | :) | 21:24 |
| ttx | ok, any other question ? | 21:24 |
| jeblair | ttx: i guess that's still a no on the design summit map? | 21:25 |
| asalkeld | all good, looking forward to getting to paris | 21:25 |
| ttx | jeblair: asking | 21:25 |
| jeblair | ttx: also, is there an indoor passage between the two? | 21:26 |
| ttx | jeblair: no indoor passage for sure | 21:26 |
| ttx | it's two separate buildings. | 21:26 |
| jeblair | so bring our umbrellas to lunch :) | 21:26 |
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| ttx | you can survive crossing the street in open air, I think :) | 21:27 |
| ttx | ok, next topic | 21:27 |
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| ttx | #topic Explicitly state which projects can add requirements | 21:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Explicitly state which projects can add requirements (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:27 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/130245 | 21:27 |
| ttx | Not exactly sure what we need to discuss there | 21:27 |
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| jeblair | dhellmann, sdague: ? | 21:28 |
| asalkeld | so "including stackforge" is new? | 21:28 |
| jeblair | it's a major proposed policy change, yes | 21:28 |
| ttx | I think the idea was to check it with all PTLs | 21:28 |
| jeblair | it even has a cross-project summit session | 21:28 |
| ttx | before it gets accepted and it's a pain to rollback | 21:28 |
| thingee | :q | 21:28 |
| sdague | there is also some infrastructure being added to devstack to make it probably not needed, so that should postpone | 21:29 |
| SergeyLukjanov | IMO due to the crossproject session it should be postponed to summit / after summit | 21:29 |
| jeblair | i think it would have less impact on ptls than the requirements reviewers and distros, whare are actually the primary audience for the requirements repo | 21:29 |
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| ttx | maybe we should all do our homework and read that, and keep the discussion about that for the cross-project session ? | 21:29 |
| asalkeld | yeah | 21:29 |
| asalkeld | big impact to distros | 21:29 |
| SergeyLukjanov | +1 | 21:29 |
| asalkeld | also do we have a policy on what gets accepted | 21:30 |
| asalkeld | or is it open | 21:30 |
| jeblair | asalkeld: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Requirements | 21:30 |
| asalkeld | jeblair, so that part is staying the same then | 21:31 |
| SergeyLukjanov | one more issue - for now if we have some lib in global req. than we're trying to avoiding alt. lib too instead of using the first one | 21:31 |
| SergeyLukjanov | but in case if we'll open global reqs. it'll start looking like pypi.python.org eventually | 21:31 |
| SergeyLukjanov | I'm feeling myself disconnected from IRC | 21:32 |
| eglynn | don't we already accept requirements from stackforge projects? ... is this just making that policy explicit? | 21:32 |
| asalkeld | eglynn, not to my knowledge | 21:32 |
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| jeblair | eglynn: we do not accept requirements from stackforge, and for good reason | 21:33 |
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| asalkeld | jeblair, are you against this then? | 21:33 |
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| asalkeld | just seeing the "and for good reason" | 21:33 |
| jeblair | asalkeld: yes, i agree with sdague, both in the review, and in the alternate proposal to resolve the issue | 21:34 |
| asalkeld | ok | 21:34 |
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| * jeblair reviews that change :) | 21:34 | |
| eglynn | jeblair: I was thinking specifically of posix_ipc for stackforge/tooz | 21:34 |
| eglynn | jeblair: ... but I see now that was originally added for oslo lockutils | 21:34 |
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| asalkeld | i like the "soft updating" | 21:35 |
| jeblair | i reviewed the other ones (that implement soft update) | 21:35 |
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| jogo | I wonder how global-requirements would work in the big tent proposal | 21:35 |
| asalkeld | jogo, "big tent" still doesn't mean totally unfiltered surely | 21:36 |
| eglynn | jeblair: similarly for dependency version lower bounds that are motivated by stackforge usage? | 21:36 |
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| jeblair | jogo: yeah, definitely worth talking about. i believe the main thing we get from it is the ability for distros to sanely, well, distribute "openstack" | 21:36 |
| ttx | Part of the issue is that we use global-requirements for multiple things | 21:37 |
| asalkeld | hopefully it is sensible but more open acceptance | 21:37 |
| ttx | one of them is general dependency convergence | 21:37 |
| eglynn | (... where the same dependency is also used by another project under openstack/ ) | 21:37 |
| ttx | others are more integration/testing related | 21:37 |
| jeblair | so i think the answer to that is probably something like "it's small, for the stuff we think is really the core of openstack" or "it's big and anyone who wants to be part of the big tent uses it" | 21:37 |
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| jeblair | ttx: i think integration/testing is still part of the primary use -- dependency convergence + compatability | 21:38 |
| ttx | FYI Maps of Le Meridien shall be uploaded tonight, so that "venue maps" thing should hopefuly look better tomorrow | 21:38 |
| jeblair | it's not to select a version of something we test with, it's so that we're testing with the set of dependencies we have selected for the project as a whole | 21:38 |
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| jeblair | ttx: thanks! | 21:40 |
| asalkeld | unless everyone uses docker this is going to get messy | 21:40 |
| jeblair | asalkeld: what's going to get messy? | 21:40 |
| asalkeld | (big tent and global requirements) | 21:40 |
| dims__ | asalkeld: fyi, heat already uses docker-py, just not in requirements | 21:40 |
| asalkeld | dims__, i mean to distribute openstack services | 21:41 |
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| asalkeld | docker-py stuff is in contrib/ | 21:41 |
| dims__ | asalkeld: ack | 21:41 |
| ttx | OK, so I think the next step on that one is the cross-project workshop on requirements at the summit | 21:41 |
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| jeblair | asalkeld: maybe? or maybe part of the big tent is taking a hard line on requirements to prevent it from getting messy... enough non-openstack projects want requirements enforcement that it seems like a possibility to me. | 21:41 |
| ttx | I'll leave a note on the review | 21:42 |
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| asalkeld | jeblair, maybe | 21:42 |
| eglynn | jeblair: just to clarify on the version lower bounds ... not kosher to require redis>=2.10.0 if motivated by tooz usage of redis, but kosher if say motivated by zaqar? | 21:42 |
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| jeblair | eglynn: correct. (and that's why we're talking about tents) | 21:43 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 21:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:43 | |
| ttx | Anything else, anyone ? | 21:43 |
| asalkeld | nope | 21:44 |
| fungi | er, python 3.4! | 21:44 |
| ttx | We should almost all be together in a few days | 21:44 |
| fungi | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/py34-transition | 21:44 |
| fungi | we're waiting for a couple of bugs to clear through an ubuntu sru to trusty | 21:44 |
| fungi | but also i'm worried glanceclient won't get their tests working in time for us to cut them over from 3.3 to 3.4 | 21:45 |
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| asalkeld | seeing lots of client related patches | 21:45 |
| fungi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-October/048659.html | 21:45 |
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| fungi | #link https://launchpad.net/bugs/1382582 | 21:45 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1382582 in python-glanceclient "untestable in Python 3.4" [Medium,Confirmed] | 21:45 |
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| fungi | asalkeld: yes, the glanceclient patches are great. i've already tested them and they're working | 21:46 |
| ttx | nikhil_k: ^ | 21:46 |
| fungi | er, heatclient | 21:46 |
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| asalkeld | cool | 21:46 |
| ttx | Looks like Glance is on the critical path | 21:46 |
| fungi | so i think heatclient is on track | 21:46 |
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| fungi | but yeah, glanceclient may end up delaying our switch off the old py3k-precise nodes, or we might have to temporarily drop py3k testing for that project | 21:47 |
| ttx | fungi: not sure nikhil_k is around. Looks like you should pay a visit to the Glance crew next week | 21:47 |
| jeblair | or we enforce python3.4 testing for it :) | 21:47 |
| fungi | i'll lurk in their team pod menacingly | 21:47 |
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| asalkeld | :-) | 21:48 |
| ttx | ok, one more minute for questions before I close the shop | 21:48 |
| * nikhil_k jumping between channels | 21:48 | |
| ttx | fungi: grab nikhil_k while he is here! | 21:48 |
| fungi | nikhil_k: just asking for the glanceclient devs to bump priority on https://launchpad.net/bugs/1382582 if possible | 21:49 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1382582 in python-glanceclient "untestable in Python 3.4" [Medium,Confirmed] | 21:49 |
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| nikhil_k | fungi: noted | 21:49 |
| fungi | and planning for contingencies if needed | 21:49 |
| nikhil_k | fungi: would that be sufficient on master or need a version? | 21:49 |
| fungi | nikhil_k: master will be fine | 21:50 |
| fungi | just want to make sure we can get it passing 3.4 tests before we drop 3.3 tests in infra | 21:50 |
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| nikhil_k | fungi: I'm sure I'd your email on my to-do list | 21:50 |
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| fungi | nikhil_k: thanks! | 21:51 |
| nikhil_k | will bring this up in the meeting | 21:51 |
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| ttx | alrighty then. See you all in a few days! | 21:51 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:51 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 28 21:51:24 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:51 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-10-28-21.02.html | 21:51 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-10-28-21.02.txt | 21:51 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-10-28-21.02.log.html | 21:51 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, thx | 21:53 |
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| morganfainberg | hogepodge, ping | 22:01 |
| morganfainberg | hogepodge, you in-charge of "other project" sessions? | 22:01 |
| morganfainberg | or is that ttx ? | 22:01 |
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| hogepodge | morganfainberg I'm in charge of the dev, I think ttx is doing the other | 23:35 |
| morganfainberg | hogepodge: this is on the dev side. But I think there isn't enough room to get in everything anyway. So... Don't worry about it. | 23:35 |
| hogepodge | what were you thinking? | 23:36 |
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