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| matel | johnthetubaguy: meeting time? | 15:03 |
|---|---|---|
| johnthetubaguy | matel: yes, it is, one sec | 15:03 |
| matel | sure | 15:03 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #startmeeting XenAPI | 15:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 3 15:04:40 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is johnthetubaguy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'xenapi' | 15:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic XenServer CI | 15:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "XenServer CI (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:04 | |
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| johnthetubaguy | hows things going? | 15:05 |
| matel | Bob has another meeting, so it's only me | 15:05 |
| matel | We deployed a new CI, and made the changeover | 15:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool, is that the switch to more upstream branches? | 15:06 |
| matel | Seems to work nicely, the updated nodepool deals better with the cloud errors | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | all good | 15:06 |
| matel | Kind -of upstream - a bit closer. | 15:06 |
| matel | We have an ongoing discussion about our patches. | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | closer is better :) | 15:06 |
| matel | The main point is that nodepool does a better job. | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | oh yeah, we need config drive to configure networking better | 15:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyways | 15:07 |
| matel | We might look at DIB, but that's really a stretch. | 15:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah | 15:07 |
| matel | FOr now, we are able to deploy a CI in minutes with scripts. | 15:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | awesome | 15:07 |
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| matel | And that enables us to launch a dev CI, which will run neutron | 15:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, perfect | 15:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | hows the neutron push going? | 15:07 |
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| matel | This way we can play with that, and investigate in a more public way. | 15:08 |
| matel | Well, I'm not sure what I told you, it's ok in serial, but in parallel it dies. | 15:08 |
| matel | I guess we had a chat about that last week | 15:08 |
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| johnthetubaguy | oh yes | 15:09 |
| matel | And no progress on that area since then. Once we have a public (ish) CI, we can start to investigate further | 15:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool, sounds good | 15:09 |
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| johnthetubaguy | any more on CI? | 15:09 |
| matel | Okay, Bob also added monitoring to the CI | 15:09 |
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| matel | watching the status pages, and setting the statusbased onthe reports. | 15:10 |
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| johnthetubaguy | OK, do we have a link for that? | 15:10 |
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| matel | Well, it's the rackspace monitoring stuff | 15:10 |
| matel | I see some dots next to my instance. | 15:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, I see | 15:10 |
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| matel | So we'll need to find a way to somehow export those "Plugins" - which are doing the logic, in case we re-install the instance | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah | 15:11 |
| matel | So that's all really - news are mainly CI related, and the plan is to create a dev one with neutron. | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Other | 15:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Other (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:12 | |
| matel | Any news from the RAX side? | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | #info https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1398826 is the nasty one that cause our snapshot issues | 15:12 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1398826 in nova "xenapi: upload failures causing image to go active" [Medium,In progress] | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | I uploaded a the fix for that | 15:12 |
| * matel is looking at the link | 15:12 | |
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| matel | Jenkins doesn't like it, or is it some noise? | 15:13 |
| matel | Bad boy, pep8 | 15:13 |
| matel | Ah, yes the terminator. | 15:13 |
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| matel | That's nasty indeed. | 15:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, jenkins is a bit broken, at least I think thats why its doing -1 | 15:14 |
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| matel | Yes, it doesn't look like a real pep8 issue | 15:14 |
| matel | 404 | 15:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, I think the mirrors are struggling with the oslo releases at the moment | 15:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyways, made the bug and patch public | 15:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | I think thats the major news, not much right now | 15:16 |
| matel | cool | 15:16 |
| matel | I see. | 15:16 |
| matel | One question | 15:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | sure | 15:16 |
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| matel | are there any plans for testing the plugins? | 15:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | yes, I have a patch for that | 15:16 |
| matel | Could you send me the link? | 15:16 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #info https://review.openstack.org/#/c/128886/ | 15:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | we need to get XenAPI into the global dependencies file though | 15:17 |
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| matel | I'll look at that patch. | 15:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK, its a bit WIP right now, just not had time to finish it off | 15:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | its a little on the hack-ey side | 15:18 |
| matel | yes, would be better if we didn't need that dependency | 15:18 |
| matel | It's progress. | 15:19 |
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| matel | Are you sure you need that import? | 15:19 |
| matel | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/128886/1/plugins/xenserver/xenapi/etc/xapi.d/plugins/utils.py | 15:19 |
| matel | Ah, that's XenAPIPlugin | 15:20 |
| matel | my bad | 15:20 |
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| johnthetubaguy | its a bit funky | 15:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | but it does work, just | 15:20 |
| matel | You can mock imports as well | 15:20 |
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| johnthetubaguy | well, wanted to keep it as normal as possible, but lets see | 15:21 |
| matel | Quite a hard task tbh | 15:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | well, having something to start adding the tests when needed, thats better than where we are now | 15:21 |
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| matel | true | 15:22 |
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| matel | Anything else on your side sir? | 15:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | there is an internal plugin we have to upload directly to swift, I did almost full coverage of that, and it wasn't too painful | 15:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | but yeah, we are done I think | 15:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | thanks for all the hard work on the CI | 15:22 |
| matel | No problem | 15:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic next meeting | 15:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "next meeting (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:23 | |
| matel | Next week? | 15:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | so next week, I am in texas | 15:23 |
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| matel | Ah, I see | 15:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | so I *should* be able to make the meeting | 15:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | but I am not 100% sure | 15:23 |
| matel | Let's aim for that, if you see it's failing, just drop an email to us | 15:23 |
| matel | We'll skip it without you. | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | its 9am, so its likely to be traffic related, but if I am not logged into IRC by 5 past, its unlikely | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK | 15:24 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I will do my best to make it, will let you know if its called off | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | cools | 15:24 |
| matel | no problem, if you don't turn up, we'll know where you are. | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | hopefully catch you next week | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | #endmeeting | 15:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:25 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 3 15:25:03 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:25 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2014/xenapi.2014-12-03-15.04.html | 15:25 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2014/xenapi.2014-12-03-15.04.txt | 15:25 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2014/xenapi.2014-12-03-15.04.log.html | 15:25 |
| matel | Ok, have a nice flight. | 15:25 |
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| johnthetubaguy | matel: finger crossed | 15:25 |
| matel | :-) | 15:25 |
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| thingee | #startmeeting cinder | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 3 16:00:20 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is thingee. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:00 |
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| jungleboyj | o? | 16:00 |
| scottda | hi | 16:00 |
| jungleboyj | o/ | 16:00 |
| cknight | Hi | 16:00 |
| rushil | \o | 16:00 |
| lpabon | hi | 16:00 |
| thingee | hello all | 16:00 |
| kaisers | hi | 16:00 |
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| thingee | agenda today | 16:00 |
| hemna_ | mornin | 16:01 |
| thingee | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CinderMeetings | 16:01 |
| avishay | hello | 16:01 |
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| e0ne | hi | 16:01 |
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| thingee | I sent an email to new driver maintainers that have a bp for k-1. | 16:01 |
| Swanson | hello | 16:01 |
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| bswartz1 | .o/ | 16:01 |
| smcginnis | o/ | 16:01 |
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| dustins_ | \o | 16:02 |
| xyang1 | hi | 16:02 |
| thingee | If I don't see code by the end of this week, I'm afraid we won't have time to review it. | 16:02 |
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| thingee | so just fyi, I will start to untarget bps | 16:02 |
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| smcginnis | thingee: I thought the 15th was the deadline previously stated. | 16:02 |
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| thingee | smcginnis: reread the email | 16:02 |
| Swanson | And there it is in my junk folder.... | 16:02 |
| thingee | the 15th is for november | 16:03 |
| flip214 | thingee: even if eg. snapshots are not fully implemented yet? didn't get an email. | 16:03 |
| ameade_ | o/ | 16:03 |
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| thingee | ok lets start | 16:03 |
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| thingee | #topic should openstack-cinder room be archived? | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "should openstack-cinder room be archived? (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:03 | |
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| scottda | so, Cinder is not archived here: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/ | 16:03 |
| thingee | scottda: you're up | 16:03 |
| scottda | but it could be. | 16:03 |
| thingee | I have no problems with this | 16:03 |
| asselin_ | o/ | 16:03 |
| akerr | +1 | 16:03 |
| flip214 | +1 | 16:04 |
| kaisers | +1 | 16:04 |
| e0ne | scottda: +1 | 16:04 |
| scottda | I was told in the Infra channel to get a resolution at this meeting and they'd do it. | 16:04 |
| asselin_ | +1 | 16:04 |
| thingee | scottda: looks golden :) | 16:04 |
| thingee | anything else? | 16:04 |
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| avishay | fine by me | 16:04 |
| scottda | nope. | 16:04 |
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| jgriffith | +1 | 16:04 |
| hemna_ | yah it's ok. | 16:04 |
| DuncanT | +1 | 16:04 |
| hemna_ | no more pr0n links in the channel guys. | 16:04 |
| scottda | Is there some kind of magic you need to do thingee? | 16:04 |
| xyang1 | fine with me | 16:04 |
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| thingee | #topic Continue the discussion on over subscription | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Continue the discussion on over subscription (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:04 | |
| e0ne | hemha_ :( | 16:04 |
| thingee | xyang1: you're up | 16:04 |
| jungleboyj | I have no concerns. Have wished I had it in the past. +1 | 16:04 |
| xyang1 | ok | 16:04 |
| xyang1 | so we talked about it last week | 16:04 |
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| thingee | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/129342/ | 16:05 |
| bswartz1 | xyang and I have had a few conversations about this | 16:05 |
| xyang1 | I discussed with bswartz and sorted out some differences and updated the spec | 16:05 |
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| bswartz1 | I decided to drop most of my objections last week after we reached agreement on the thick/thin provisioning capbilities | 16:05 |
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| bswartz1 | I still thing we need to tweak the capabilities and extra specs (I think there should be 2, not 1) | 16:06 |
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| bswartz1 | but on the whole I'm pretty happy with the form xyang's spec takes now | 16:06 |
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| thingee | bswartz1: what does that mean 2, not one?is there explicit limit in the spec? | 16:06 |
| bswartz1 | should we discuss the capabilities/extra specs here, or in the spec review on gerrit? | 16:06 |
| xyang1 | so the capabilities is the provisioning_capabilities, right now it can be thin, thick, or both | 16:06 |
| bswartz1 | the spec suggests 1 capability with 3 values | 16:07 |
| bswartz1 | I think I'd prefer 2 boolean capabilities | 16:07 |
| thingee | xyang1: why is that? | 16:07 |
| DuncanT | What does 'both' mean? | 16:07 |
| xyang1 | thingee: I can go either way. I put it together quickly last night | 16:07 |
| bswartz1 | something like "supports_thick_volumes" and "supports_thin_volumes" | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: some devices let you "pick" | 16:07 |
| DuncanT | Ah, got you | 16:07 |
| xyang1 | both means it supports both thin and thick | 16:07 |
| DuncanT | Thanks | 16:07 |
| DuncanT | I was thinking extra specs, not capabilities | 16:08 |
| DuncanT | My bad | 16:08 |
| xyang1 | there's extra specs too | 16:08 |
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| jgriffith | xyang1: bswartz1 how about "supported_provision_types=x,y,z" | 16:08 |
| thingee | bswartz1: sounds like that can be accounted for | 16:08 |
| thingee | just the spec needs to be updated | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | where x=thick, y=thin, z=both | 16:08 |
| bswartz1 | jgriffith: it's impossible for the scheduler to filter on that | 16:08 |
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| thingee | jgriffith: sure | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | bswartz1: why? | 16:08 |
| bswartz1 | for filtering to work, it's better to have a list of booleans | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | bswartz1: disagree :) | 16:09 |
| xyang1 | jgriffith: I think that is the current proposal | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | xyang1: yes, but discussion started aroudn booleans, names etc | 16:09 |
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| avishay | the scheduler can filter on lots of things, you just have to set the extra specs correctly | 16:09 |
| xyang1 | ok | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | xyang1: just trying to inject some sanity and keep things readable and understandable | 16:09 |
| bswartz1 | well..... maybe I'm lacking a clue here | 16:09 |
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| xyang1 | I'm fine with whatever the team has decided on this one | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | bswartz1: really by what I just proposed you can treat it as 3 booleans to eval in a single stat | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | bswartz1: still does what you're proposing, just less verbose | 16:10 |
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| thingee | jgriffith: makes sense. I'm not sure what the problem is here. | 16:10 |
| avishay | bswartz1: look at the oslo scheduler code, it has lots of keywords to filter by | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | bswartz1: ans easier to deal with | 16:10 |
| avishay | jgriffith: +1 | 16:10 |
| bswartz1 | I just want to make sure that admins are able to specify that some volume_types MUST be thick, while others must be thin, and maybe some don't care | 16:10 |
| thingee | bswartz1: sure | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | bswartz1: noted :) | 16:11 |
| bswartz1 | and backends need to be able to advertise what they support | 16:11 |
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| jgriffith | bswartz1: provisioning_type=thin... | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | must have "thin" in the results | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | if you don't care, you omit the spec from the type altogether | 16:12 |
| bswartz1 | okay jgriffith I will try that out | 16:12 |
| * jgriffith is worried he's missing something | 16:12 | |
| thingee | bswartz1: are there any other issues besides that? if not, I'm sure xyang1 is going to treat herself to a milkshake with that spec being merged. | 16:12 |
| bswartz1 | perhaps I underestimated how smart the filtering is in the scheduler | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | mmmmmmm.... milkshakes | 16:12 |
| xyang1 | thingee :) | 16:12 |
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| * jungleboyj wants a milkshake | 16:13 | |
| hemna_ | we specify thin,thick in our volume types already. not sure how this affects that if at all | 16:13 |
| bswartz1 | >_< it's lunchtime here and you're talking about delicious food | 16:13 |
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| thingee | I'm going to take that as a no then. So I will look for a +1 from bswartz1 on that spec. | 16:13 |
| thingee | anything else xyang1? | 16:13 |
| xyang1 | all set | 16:14 |
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| bswartz1 | I'll +1 the spec after I convince myself that the capabilities/extra_specs are good enough | 16:14 |
| bswartz1 | I don't expect there will be any issues | 16:14 |
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| thingee | #topic Discussion on the current status of this spec "Support Modifying Volume Image Metadata" | 16:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discussion on the current status of this spec "Support Modifying Volume Image Metadata" (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:14 | |
| thingee | davechen: hi | 16:14 |
| davechen | hi | 16:14 |
| thingee | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/136253/ | 16:14 |
| davechen | thingee: hi | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | we're doing this again :) | 16:15 |
| thingee | DuncanT: present? | 16:15 |
| * jgriffith quickly reads spec | 16:15 | |
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| davechen | yes, I just update the spec some mins ago. | 16:15 |
| avishay | bswartz1: https://github.com/openstack/cinder/blob/master/cinder/openstack/common/scheduler/filters/extra_specs_ops.py | 16:15 |
| DuncanT | Yup | 16:15 |
| DuncanT | I think the delete confusion is now sorted? | 16:16 |
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| bswartz1 | avishay: ty | 16:16 |
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| jgriffith | davechen: can you describe a use case for me real quick? | 16:16 |
| davechen | sure | 16:16 |
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| davechen | This blueprint is actually a partial task of Graffiti project, | 16:17 |
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| jgriffith | davechen: and you lost me :) | 16:17 |
| davechen | no | 16:17 |
| thingee | I'm also not entirely sure I get graffiti myself | 16:17 |
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| thingee | that's another topic though | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | thingee: +1 | 16:17 |
| hemna_ | spray paint, wall, big letters. | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | let's focus on a cinder use case as related to this spec | 16:18 |
| davechen | on, the intention of this BP is support modifying image metadata in cinder | 16:18 |
| * jungleboyj is resisting the urge to make a Graffiti joke. | 16:18 | |
| jungleboyj | Thanks hemna_ | 16:18 |
| hemna_ | jungleboyj, :P | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | davechen: yes, but the question is "why" | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | or at least "my question" | 16:18 |
| thingee | jgriffith: mine too | 16:18 |
| davechen | there is one question in the BP. | 16:19 |
| avishay | davechen: i think the question is, you created an volume from an image, and the volume's image metadata reflects the source. why would you need to change it? | 16:19 |
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| jgriffith | davechen: your problem statement describes what you want to do, but I don't quite see the *problem* or the *why* | 16:19 |
| thingee | davechen: I've glanced through it myself. can you point me to which line? | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | avishay: correct... and more importantly should you be allowed to change it | 16:19 |
| davechen | we need change it as the part of task of graffiti. | 16:19 |
| DuncanT | avishay: Because a volume is mutable. I install a new kernel, maybe it needs different metadata (e.g. the attach method for BfV) | 16:19 |
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| hemna_ | davechen, what is the volume metadata missing at that point that prevents graffiti from working ? | 16:20 |
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| jgriffith | DuncanT: so your making the decision to just cut glance out of the picture then? | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: not saying that's bad :) | 16:20 |
| thingee | davechen: I understand graffiti needs to change it, but *why*. | 16:20 |
| davechen | LINE81 | 16:20 |
| avishay | DuncanT: I would expect the user to do volume->image with the updated metadata | 16:20 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: Once glance has created the bootable volume, it *is* out of the picture for that volume | 16:21 |
| thingee | davechen: rest api impact? | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | avishay: +1 | 16:21 |
| thingee | davechen: I'm not sure I'm following | 16:21 |
| davechen | yes, i am not sure whether we need a new API to handle image metadata | 16:21 |
| davechen | Delete API | 16:21 |
| DuncanT | avishay: Upload it to glance and suck it back down just to change one piece of metadata? | 16:21 |
| thingee | davechen: I'm not sure if use cases are thought out given how this discussion is going. I'm going to defer this topic until there are stated use cases listed on this spec. | 16:22 |
| thingee | and api is not a use case. | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: I don't see the necessity | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: dont' see why it needs to be in Glance necessarily either | 16:22 |
| davechen | nova scheduler need the metadata information for vm schedule | 16:22 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: Some of the glance metadata affects how nova sets up the volume attachment | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: and the only thing I see as a use case here is Graffiti | 16:22 |
| ameade_ | why the heck does nova care the volume came from an image "Cinder volume_image_metadata is used by nova for things like scheduling and | 16:22 |
| ameade_ | for setting device driver options" | 16:22 |
| avishay | DuncanT: i assume if you have your images in glance, and you make a change to an image that is noteworthy, you would store it in glance again. ideally uploading and sucking it back are just CoW operations :) | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: sure.... but not that much really | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: maybe you have a use case to share? | 16:23 |
| ameade_ | DuncanT: jgriffith: doesn't that seem like the real issue here? | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | ameade_: let's not side track :) | 16:23 |
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| DuncanT | jgriffith: The only usecase I have is a long running bootable volume I upgrade the kernel on such that a different attach method is prefered | 16:23 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: It's pretty niche but is a usecase | 16:24 |
| davechen | imo, the spec is basically ready for approval :) | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: meh... I'm not getting it | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | To me it's a solution without a real problem | 16:24 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: I'll get the exact key names and such and put a comment on the spec | 16:24 |
| avishay | i don't think it's that important, but if it is for some people, i don't think it's that big of a deal to implement and include | 16:25 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: You can do it by uploading to glance, editting the metadata there and re-downloading, but that is a faff | 16:25 |
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| davechen | I copy the problem desc here. | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: and IIRC KVM at least is not very picky about kernel version | 16:25 |
| hemna_ | sorrison, on the reverse, what is the downside to allowing updating the metadata ? | 16:25 |
| davechen | When creating a bootable volume from an image, the image metadata (properties)is copied into a volume property named volume_image_metadata. | 16:25 |
| hemna_ | gah | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | but I'm wasting everybody's time I fear | 16:25 |
| hemna_ | so | 16:25 |
| davechen | Cinder volume_image_metadata is used by nova for things like scheduling and | 16:25 |
| davechen | for setting device driver options. This information may need to change after | 16:25 |
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| jgriffith | hemna_: breaks things like cached copies of image | 16:25 |
| davechen | the volume has been created from an image, besides, the additional properties | 16:26 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: Why? I don't see how | 16:26 |
| hemna_ | jgriffith, but the image is untouched. I don't see how that breaks cached images ? | 16:26 |
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| DuncanT | jgriffith: The image in glance is still mutable | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: if I have a cached copy of image FOO on my backend device | 16:26 |
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| jgriffith | DuncanT: you update the metadata | 16:26 |
| ameade_ | davechen: wouldn't it be better if that information lived in volume metadata? | 16:26 |
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| ameade_ | DuncanT: glance images are immutable | 16:26 |
| ameade_ | it's a core tenant | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | Next person that comes along and want a Voluem with FOO image... I say "oh, got it... here ya go" | 16:27 |
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| DuncanT | jgriffith: The cached copy doesn't get touched at all | 16:27 |
| davechen | ameade_: nova just use image metadata | 16:27 |
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| hemna_ | DuncanT, yah I don't understant hat | 16:27 |
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| hemna_ | that | 16:27 |
| avishay | thingee gave up | 16:27 |
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| DuncanT | jgriffith: Only the db record associated with one specific live, mutable copy of that image gets changed | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: so then I really don't get the point :( | 16:28 |
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| jgriffith | DuncanT: anyway... maybe you and davechen can write up a real problem statement | 16:28 |
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| jgriffith | and I'll see the light | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:28 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: The metadata is associated with what is in the image. Once you change the contents of the volume, that data, for that specific volume, can be out of date | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | I'm just not getting it. As far as downside, maybe there's not one | 16:28 |
| DuncanT | I'll work on a concrete example | 16:29 |
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| jgriffith | DuncanT: yeah, that's my point | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | the cached copy never has the kernel update for example | 16:29 |
| davechen | i want to know if can get any review comments and fix them asap before spec freeze? | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | but the image still has the same ID | 16:29 |
| thingee | DuncanT: seems problematic. volumes are going to change. metadata will always be out of date | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | right? | 16:29 |
| ameade_ | i'll post some thoughts on the spec | 16:29 |
| DuncanT | The cached copy isn't having its metadata changed, only the live volume is | 16:29 |
| hemna_ | davechen, maybe give some concrete examples of what nova needs to change in the metadata that prevents things from working as needed. | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | It's anit-cloudy if nothing else | 16:29 |
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| jgriffith | DuncanT: yes, but you're missing what I'm saying | 16:30 |
| avishay | i'm not sure what "cached copy" means | 16:30 |
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| jgriffith | User loads an image on the vol.... updates the kernel | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | updates the metadata | 16:30 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: That metadata will get used next boot from that vol | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | Does that update go anywhere else? Does the metadata change go back up to glance? | 16:30 |
| davechen | hemna_: nova needn't do any changes | 16:30 |
| avishay | jgriffith: no, just on the volume, not in glance | 16:30 |
| * hemna_ is confused then. | 16:30 | |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: so that metadata change is *isolated* to that particular volume? | 16:31 |
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| jgriffith | DuncanT: ahhh... ok!!! | 16:31 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: It will only go back to glance if the user uploads that volume as a new image | 16:31 |
| thingee | I don't get the point of it. if you change the kernel, make a new image, set the metadata...but don't worry about chasing the contents of the volume and keeping the metadata accurate. | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | Now we're talking!! | 16:31 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: Yes | 16:31 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: Totally isolated | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: in that case I don't care :) | 16:31 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: Sorry, I thought that was clear | 16:31 |
| avishay | jgriffith: +1 | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: thank you very much for exaplaining the details | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: no, based on 5 of us asking about it I don't think it was clear at all | 16:31 |
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| avishay | thingee: yes, i guess the user needs to keep the volume contents and the metadata in sync for some cases, which seems odd | 16:32 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: NP, glad we could sort out which bits were unclear :-) | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | davechen: PLEASE put a note in the spec explicitly pointing out that this ONLY affects the individual volume | 16:32 |
| thingee | avishay: It will get outdated. just doesn't seem worth it | 16:32 |
| davechen | jgriffith: sure. | 16:32 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: yeah, I still don't see the point, but now I don't care because it won't break things I don't think | 16:32 |
| DuncanT | thingee: The glance metadata stored by cinder gets actively used to make decissions at boot time | 16:33 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: +1 - You shouldn't care for the most part | 16:33 |
| avishay | thingee: outdated is OK as long as it doesn't break things, but if nova is relying on it, that's a bit sketchy | 16:33 |
| davechen | jgriffith, DuncanT: any other gaps in the spec? | 16:33 |
| thingee | DuncanT: and it will do it wrong. humans are going to forget to update metadata. | 16:33 |
| thingee | DuncanT: images are more a point in time than volumes are ever changing | 16:33 |
| hemna_ | davechen, I still think having a use case in the spec is valuable. | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | davechen: If you could point out the "decisions" that Duncan is eluding to that would be great | 16:33 |
| DuncanT | thingee: This is not for an image though, it is for a volume | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | davechen: I'm a fan of requiring a real use case proposed and described in specs | 16:34 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: I'll find an example, no problem | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | thanks, sorry to take up so much time on that | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | thingee: humans forget.... whaaaat you say? | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:34 |
| jungleboyj | :-) | 16:34 |
| davechen | jgriffith: I define some use case in the spec. | 16:34 |
| thingee | DuncanT: I think you would have better luck have a new volume from an image if you want to rely on that metadata. | 16:35 |
| hemna_ | davechen, +1 | 16:35 |
| hemna_ | thingee, this is metadata on a volume, not an image | 16:35 |
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| DuncanT | thingee: So you have to create an image, edit the metadata in glance then suck the image back down just to get new metadata associated with the volume... that sucks | 16:35 |
| thingee | hemna_: create a volume from an image is my point | 16:35 |
| thingee | hemna_: is where you would have more luck of that metadata being accurate | 16:35 |
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| thingee | the contents of the volume hasn't changed as much, because it's a new volume from an image. | 16:36 |
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| jgriffith | thingee: I think you're on the same concept I was stuck on | 16:36 |
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| thingee | DuncanT: better than having false positives with a 6 month old volume saying it has kernel X | 16:36 |
| hemna_ | yah, this isn't metadata on the image | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | thingee: this is for the volume only | 16:36 |
| hemna_ | this is metadata about the image on a volume. | 16:36 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: +1 | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | thingee: NO change to image at all | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | thingee: just let's you do things like update the boot info for that particular volume that you might modify | 16:37 |
| avishay | i see what thingee is saying, and i don't think he's confused :) | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | thingee: so you can start with a base and build off of it | 16:37 |
| ameade_ | so why do we call it volume IMAGE metadata | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | avishay: thingee Oh, sorry | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | in that case I'll shut my mouth and read again | 16:37 |
| ameade_ | like i'm trying to say, just shove this info in volume metadata | 16:37 |
| hemna_ | ameade_, I think it's data about the image where the volume came from? | 16:37 |
| ameade_ | i posted on the spec | 16:37 |
| winston-d | ameade_: you made a good point | 16:37 |
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| ameade_ | hemna_: yeah, which doesnt make sense to change | 16:38 |
| DuncanT | ameade_: Historical reasons | 16:38 |
| thingee | I'll review the spec again once things are updated, but it sounds like this error prone. I understand this is metadata with the volume. *that's* the problem | 16:38 |
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| avishay | if you store "golden images" in glance, and you made a significant change in one (by way of a volume), i would expect the user to put it in glance for themselves/others to use | 16:38 |
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| winston-d | ameade_: to me, the only missing point is the abliity for nova to consume volume metadata. | 16:38 |
| ameade_ | winston-d: +1 | 16:38 |
| DuncanT | winston-d: nova does consume it | 16:38 |
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| winston-d | jgriffith: in the case like TRIM support | 16:38 |
| thingee | davechen: anything else? | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: hmmm... | 16:39 |
| DuncanT | TRIM is different IMO | 16:39 |
| thingee | #topic Posix backup driver replaces NFS backup driver | 16:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Posix backup driver replaces NFS backup driver (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:39 | |
| davechen | thingee: yes, i really cannot catch your idea. | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: but why would you do that instead of just letting file systems be file systems and do their thing? | 16:39 |
| thingee | nfs backup driver: | 16:39 |
| thingee | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/138234/1 | 16:39 |
| thingee | posix backup driver: | 16:39 |
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| thingee | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82996/ | 16:39 |
| thingee | davechen: likewise | 16:40 |
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| bswartz1 | is tbarron here? | 16:40 |
| thingee | kevin fox has proposed that the nfs backup driver is replaced with the posix backup driver | 16:40 |
| thingee | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/130858/ | 16:40 |
| winston-d | jgriffith: to let kernel/file system do their thing, you have to present a storage controller that appears to kernel that support TRIM. | 16:40 |
| thingee | is kevin fox here? | 16:41 |
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| rushil | bswartz: Nope | 16:41 |
| bswartz1 | I thought tbarron and kevin fox were talking between themselves about these 2 options | 16:41 |
| avishay | seems neither are here | 16:41 |
| winston-d | jgriffith: and nova relies on image metadata (only) to decide, which is sad for BFV. | 16:41 |
| DuncanT | winston-d: Nova uses the cinder copy though, it doesn't pull it from glance for BfV | 16:42 |
| thingee | I agree with DuncanT that the posix backup driver should be using some code that's already in swift. it's just duplicating code. | 16:42 |
| bswartz1 | we believe the NFS backup driver is better, and possibly could be generalized to support other (posix) use cases | 16:42 |
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| jgriffith | winston-d: answered in #cinder so not to interrupt here :) | 16:42 |
| DuncanT | winston-d: It used to, but we fixed it because you can delete an image from glance and that used to break the BfV | 16:42 |
| thingee | bswartz1: it's better if you support dedup, right? | 16:42 |
| thingee | bswartz1: I think that's what kevin was getting it at | 16:42 |
| bswartz1 | there were a few things we didn't like about the posix driver -- several options would need to be added for it to be acceptable for us | 16:43 |
| bswartz1 | I thought tbarron has worked all that out though | 16:43 |
| bswartz1 | had* | 16:43 |
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| bswartz1 | since neither are here to argue their case, I suggest we revisit it next week | 16:43 |
| thingee | sounds fine to me. I see this pushed to k-2 now anyways | 16:43 |
| DuncanT | I'd really like to see the de-dupe done before merging this driver | 16:43 |
| ameade_ | bswartz1: +1, and the conversation on the review isnt' complete | 16:43 |
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| avishay | is the posix driver supposed to be the choice for all filesystem drivers, like nfs, netapp, gluster, gpfs, etc? | 16:44 |
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| thingee | avishay: yes | 16:44 |
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| bswartz1 | avishay: that was the theory -- but he implementation has limitations we don't like | 16:44 |
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| ameade_ | not all filesystems are created equal | 16:44 |
| ameade_ | but lets shelve this | 16:44 |
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| thingee | bswartz1: I'm interested, because it doesn't make sense to me right now. :) | 16:44 |
| akerr | won't you end up with one driver with 1000 options in that case? | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | bswartz1: you keep saying "we didn't like" "didn't work for us" | 16:44 |
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| bswartz1 | jgriffith: I'm summarizing the discussion -- the details should be in the spec review | 16:45 |
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| thingee | bswartz1: I read the spec review, it didn | 16:45 |
| thingee | t make sense | 16:45 |
| bswartz1 | oy | 16:45 |
| avishay | akerr: i can't imagine 1000 options for "take this file, put it there" | 16:46 |
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| bswartz1 | one thing in particular that causes problem is that kevin's driver gzips everything | 16:46 |
| ameade_ | will the posix driver mount an nfs share for me? | 16:46 |
| bswartz1 | that makes it very hard to do incrementals | 16:46 |
| akerr | each filesystem type can have its own optimizations | 16:46 |
| avishay | conf.gzip_everything = False | 16:46 |
| thingee | Ok, I agree we can defer this, but this isn't very productive to keep discussions elsewhere if we're all going to make a decision on these drivers. | 16:46 |
| thingee | avishay: +1 | 16:46 |
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| bswartz1 | avishay: those are the kinds of changes we would want to see if kevin's driver is the one we use | 16:47 |
| thingee | #topic RemoteFS snapshots | 16:47 |
| thingee | kaisers: hello | 16:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "RemoteFS snapshots (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:47 | |
| kaisers | thingee: thanks | 16:47 |
| thingee | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/remotefs-snaps | 16:47 |
| kaisers | This is about refactoring the remotefs driver | 16:47 |
| kaisers | has been started some time ago (see blueprint) | 16:47 |
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| kaisers | and due to our work on the quobyte driver becomes current now as we have some code duplication with other remotefs derived drivers | 16:48 |
| avishay | yea i've been asking for this since havana :) | 16:48 |
| kaisers | i just wanted to announce that we want to start on this in the next weeks | 16:48 |
| kaisers | and see who is interested in this | 16:48 |
| avishay | kaisers: quobyte doesn't support snapshots i assume? | 16:48 |
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| kaisers | trying to bash tempest in accepting the code right now ;-) | 16:49 |
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| eharney | start on what exactly? | 16:49 |
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| kaisers | moving code from quobyte.py, glusterfs.py, etc. to remotefs.py | 16:49 |
| kaisers | e.g. online snapshots, lock wrappers, etc. | 16:49 |
| kaisers | i would start by creating a blueprint / spec on what to change | 16:50 |
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| avishay | locks are bad | 16:50 |
| kaisers | we already have a list of proposed changes from the duplications we saw in our code | 16:50 |
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| thingee | kaisers: is that list on an etherpad or something? | 16:50 |
| kaisers | i just didn't want to start this without having everybody know | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | avishay: Now you're talking!!!!! | 16:51 |
| eharney | i'll be working on snapshots for the NFS driver (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/133074/) and presumably looking at similar issues... maybe we should come up with a more specific list | 16:51 |
| kaisers | currently not, i intended to add this to the spec | 16:51 |
| kaisers | eharney: Yep | 16:51 |
| thingee | kaisers: a spec, even better :) | 16:51 |
| thingee | kaisers: sounds good to me, and thanks for starting this | 16:51 |
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| kaisers | as soon as if complete the online snapshots with the quobyte driver (one test fails) i wanted to start this | 16:52 |
| thingee | kaisers: makes sense. can people just ping you on #openstack-cinder if they want to help out? | 16:52 |
| kaisers | absolutely, yes | 16:52 |
| thingee | great | 16:52 |
| eharney | yes, i'd like to make sure we don't duplicate effort | 16:52 |
| thingee | kaisers: anything else? | 16:52 |
| eharney | sounds good though | 16:52 |
| kaisers | nope, that's it | 16:52 |
| thingee | #topic Open discussion | 16:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:53 | |
| thingee | 7 mins left | 16:53 |
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| DuncanT | There's the let-nova-put-volumes-in-error spec that I still don't understand | 16:54 |
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| thingee | DuncanT: link? | 16:54 |
| xyang1 | DuncanT: is that ours? | 16:54 |
| DuncanT | If anybody can explain why you'd ever want nova to do that, I'd appreciate it | 16:54 |
| DuncanT | xyang1: I think so, yeah | 16:54 |
| xyang1 | currently nova put volume status back to available | 16:55 |
| xyang1 | then but backend already attached the volume | 16:55 |
| xyang1 | they are out of sync | 16:55 |
| xyang1 | so that is not right either | 16:55 |
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| xyang1 | if volume is 'error' instead of 'available', it at least tells admin something is wrong | 16:55 |
| xyang1 | that is the purpose | 16:55 |
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| avishay | xyang1: doesn't nova call terminate_connection and allow the driver to reset? | 16:56 |
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| DuncanT | xyang1: error means the tenant can now do nothing with their volume | 16:56 |
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| xyang1 | avishay: not in this case | 16:56 |
| DuncanT | xyang1: It should just be terminate_connection | 16:56 |
| xyang1 | when initialize_connection times out, it didn't | 16:56 |
| xyang1 | but we will be adding that | 16:56 |
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| xyang1 | even so, it could still fail | 16:56 |
| DuncanT | xyang1: If there's a missing call to terminate then fixing that is sensible | 16:56 |
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| xyang1 | if it still fail, error is more consistent with the status in the backend | 16:57 |
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| DuncanT | But nova shouldn't get to make that decision | 16:57 |
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| xyang1 | DuncanT: yes, we are adding a terminate_connection call | 16:57 |
| xyang1 | but if that also fails, the status will still be 'available' in cinder while in the backend it is attached | 16:57 |
| DuncanT | So when cinder transitions from attaching back to available, it should tell the driver to terminate | 16:58 |
| avishay | xyang1: why doesn't the backend clean up on terminate_connection? | 16:58 |
| xyang1 | DuncanT: currently it will be changed from 'attaching' to 'available'. that is not right either | 16:58 |
| jgriffith | avishay: that would seem better... clean up, if you can't fail and put volume in error | 16:59 |
| xyang1 | avishay: if terminate_connection still times out, then we are still out of sync | 16:59 |
| DuncanT | xyang1: It should be made available on timeout. If we need to call the driver terminate at that point then we can | 16:59 |
| jungleboyj | jgriffith: +1 | 16:59 |
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| jgriffith | xyang1: ah... and round and round it goes | 16:59 |
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| jgriffith | xyang1: get a faster API :) | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | quit timing out on everything | 16:59 |
| avishay | you have the cinder DB mirroring your backend's metadata, obviously things will go out of sync | 17:00 |
| xyang1 | basically if terminate_connection still can't fix it, set it to error | 17:00 |
| xyang1 | jgriffith: :) | 17:00 |
| thingee | thanks everyone | 17:00 |
| thingee | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 3 17:00:14 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2014/cinder.2014-12-03-16.00.html | 17:00 |
| avishay | thingee: thanks! | 17:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2014/cinder.2014-12-03-16.00.txt | 17:00 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2014/cinder.2014-12-03-16.00.log.html | 17:00 |
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| bswartz1 | milkshake time! | 17:00 |
| kaisers | thanks! | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | xyang1: yeah, that's what I was getting at | 17:00 |
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| thingee | bswartz1: +1 | 17:00 |
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| tjones | #startmeeting vmwareapi | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | xyang1: you're out of sync, but it's not as dangerous at least | 17:00 |
| rushiagr | :) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 3 17:00:33 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is tjones. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)" | 17:00 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'vmwareapi' | 17:00 |
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| tjones | hi folks | 17:00 |
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| jgriffith | xyang1: and then we can try and add recovery via reset or whatever | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | oops.. sorry folks | 17:00 |
| tjones | no worries | 17:01 |
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| tjones | anyone here for vmwareapi? | 17:01 |
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| tjones | listening.... | 17:03 |
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| zz_zz_zz_zz_zz_z | I am here | 17:05 |
| zz_zz_zz_zz_zz_z | haha this is Sabari | 17:05 |
| tjones | nice | 17:05 |
| tjones | well so far it's just you and me | 17:05 |
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| zz_zz_zz_zz_zz_z | need to change my nick as elitebnc changes it when away | 17:06 |
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| tjones | arnaud was working with tflower on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/128691/14 will you take over that task too? | 17:08 |
| sabari | @tjones: gary is currently working on it | 17:08 |
| tjones | we need some more detail. I was hoping for this to be approved by k-1 which is 12/18 | 17:08 |
| tjones | ah ok | 17:09 |
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| tjones | no gary here today. there was confusion on when this meeting is - i guess it's not clear yet | 17:09 |
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| tjones | sabari: are there any nova tasks you have taken over? | 17:10 |
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| sabari | so far no | 17:10 |
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| tjones | ok so without rado, gary, dims we don't have a quorum | 17:11 |
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| sabari | @tjones I thought you were talking about fixing multiple disk support in nova. Which gary is working on. | 17:12 |
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| sabari | this one is new I think | 17:12 |
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| tjones | yes this is a new one | 17:13 |
| sabari | I haven't seen it before. | 17:13 |
| tjones | yes this is supporting multi-disk ova | 17:13 |
| sabari | okay let me ping tflower | 17:13 |
| tjones | ok thanks | 17:14 |
| tjones | dims: works with him | 17:14 |
| sabari | fine do you want to check again at UTC 18:00 ? | 17:14 |
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| tjones | no im going to end the meeting and send email out | 17:14 |
| sabari | ok | 17:14 |
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| tjones | see ya | 17:15 |
| tjones | #endmeeting | 17:15 |
| sabari | yup | 17:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:15 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 3 17:15:08 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:15 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2014/vmwareapi.2014-12-03-17.00.html | 17:15 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2014/vmwareapi.2014-12-03-17.00.txt | 17:15 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2014/vmwareapi.2014-12-03-17.00.log.html | 17:15 |
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| garyk | vmware ,eeting/ | 17:20 |
| tjones | hi | 17:20 |
| tjones | i ended it | 17:20 |
| tjones | only sabari was here | 17:20 |
| garyk | yikes. sorry for joining late - thought it was at the end of the hour? | 17:20 |
| tjones | no it is 17:00 UTC | 17:21 |
| garyk | ok, my bad | 17:21 |
| tjones | no worries rado is not here either | 17:21 |
| tjones | nor any of our other buddies | 17:21 |
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| tjones | so hurrah about spbm! | 17:22 |
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| nikesh_vedams_ | how can i register nova blueprint | 18:11 |
| nikesh_vedams_ | sorry | 18:12 |
| nikesh_vedams_ | wrong channel | 18:12 |
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| asalkeld | #startmeeting heat | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 3 20:00:22 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is asalkeld. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'heat' | 20:00 |
| asalkeld | #topic rollcall | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:00 | |
| zaneb | o/ | 20:00 |
| skraynev_ | o/ | 20:00 |
| shardy | o/ | 20:00 |
| stevebaker | \o | 20:00 |
| pas-ha | o/ | 20:00 |
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| tspatzier | hi | 20:00 |
| ryansb | hi folks | 20:00 |
| inc0 | o/ | 20:01 |
| jpeeler | hey | 20:01 |
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| asalkeld | whilst we are waiting for others, lets think of some topics | 20:02 |
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| inc0 | I have one:) Status of zero downtime upgrades | 20:02 |
| asalkeld | #topic Adding items to the agenda | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Adding items to the agenda (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:02 | |
| asalkeld | ok | 20:02 |
| shardy | asalkeld: I have one, Grenade testing | 20:02 |
| stevebaker | kilo-1 status | 20:02 |
| shardy | looking for a volunteer to push that forward | 20:02 |
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| ryansb | also kilo-1 exceptions | 20:03 |
| shardy | ryansb: exceptions? | 20:04 |
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| asalkeld | i thought that was for ff | 20:04 |
| skraynev_ | shardy: you mean grenade job or what? | 20:04 |
| stevebaker | ryansb: I don't think we do that for milestones, its just a snapshot | 20:04 |
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| asalkeld | what about a quick summary of convergence | 20:04 |
| shardy | skraynev_: Yeah, I started a patch adding Heat to grenade testing, EmilienM then did some work on it, but it's still not ready/merged | 20:04 |
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| ryansb | err, I got wires crossed. Was thinking of 2014.2.1 | 20:05 |
| shardy | need someone to take ownership of it, I never have time to look at it lately | 20:05 |
| pas-ha | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/86978/ | 20:05 |
| ryansb | scratch it | 20:05 |
| asalkeld | urm.... | 20:05 |
| skraynev_ | shardy: I may take a look ;) | 20:05 |
| asalkeld | #topic Review action items from last meeting | 20:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review action items from last meeting (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:05 | |
| pas-ha | skraynev, ^^^^^ | 20:05 |
| shardy | ryansb: Ah, yeah I think we landed all we needed for the stable freeze | 20:05 |
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| asalkeld | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2014/heat.2014-11-26-12.00.html | 20:05 |
| inc0 | I think last meeting ended early due to thanksgiving...is there anything to review? | 20:06 |
| asalkeld | did this happen "Convergence folks to organise call/hangout to define direction re various PoC efforts" | 20:06 |
| shardy | skraynev_: thanks, lets action you when we get to that item :) | 20:06 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: it's organised for tomorrow | 20:06 |
| inc0 | it did -> tomorrow at 9am east coast time | 20:06 |
| skraynev_ | shardy: ok | 20:06 |
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| asalkeld | cool | 20:06 |
| skraynev_ | pas-ha: thx | 20:06 |
| asalkeld | ok, moving on | 20:07 |
| asalkeld | #topic Status of zero downtime upgrades | 20:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status of zero downtime upgrades (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:07 | |
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| asalkeld | so this is waiting on the oslo versioned objects | 20:07 |
| inc0 | so, do we have issues listed out? blueprints to implement/draft? bugs to fix? | 20:07 |
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| asalkeld | inc0, we have a bp | 20:07 |
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| asalkeld | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/132157/ | 20:08 |
| pas-ha | and seems like nova versioned objects falls into that bucket too | 20:08 |
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| inc0 | is that only issue we have? if that lands we'll be able to do upgrades? | 20:08 |
| stevebaker | asalkeld: can't we have zero downtime upgrades now as long as db schema changes are backwards compatible? | 20:08 |
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| asalkeld | stevebaker, yeah | 20:09 |
| inc0 | is it always? | 20:09 |
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| asalkeld | tho' i doubt that is normally the case | 20:09 |
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| asalkeld | so can a heat-engine talk to an old db | 20:09 |
| asalkeld | inc0, i could start with just coping the versioned objects code in tree | 20:10 |
| asalkeld | there in not much code | 20:10 |
| asalkeld | and then swith over when we have it in oslo | 20:10 |
| asalkeld | so it's not holding us back | 20:11 |
| stevebaker | thats a bit risky | 20:11 |
| asalkeld | stevebaker, why? | 20:11 |
| asalkeld | i don't believe it's going to change | 20:11 |
| stevebaker | the api might change as it moves to oslo | 20:11 |
| skraynev_ | asalkeld: can we wjust wait this functional from oslo? | 20:11 |
| skraynev_ | s/wjust/just | 20:12 |
| asalkeld | we can wait, but i am not sure if it would make it in kilo | 20:12 |
| shardy | stevebaker: Sometimes the API changes when it moves out of incubator anyway, so I don't see that as a huge barrier | 20:12 |
| asalkeld | which would be disapointing to me | 20:12 |
| skraynev_ | asalkeld: got it. Agree, will be nice to have it in kilo | 20:13 |
| asalkeld | ok, moving on | 20:13 |
| shardy | asalkeld: what's holding it up landing in oslo? | 20:13 |
| asalkeld | #topic Grenade testing | 20:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Grenade testing (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:13 | |
| stevebaker | ok, I wouldn't block it in the short term | 20:13 |
| asalkeld | shardy, spec approval + code landing | 20:13 |
| shardy | Ok, so here's the patch I started a while back: | 20:13 |
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| shardy | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/86978/ | 20:13 |
| shardy | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/86978/ | 20:14 |
| stevebaker | shardy: vaguely related, do you have a working local instack? | 20:14 |
| shardy | EmilienM: helped get it working, now it's broken again, and I never seem to have time to look at it | 20:14 |
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| shardy | skraynev_: if you have time to help that would be great | 20:15 |
| EmilienM | shardy: I should have a look if you want | 20:15 |
| asalkeld | shardy, is the setup tricky? | 20:15 |
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| EmilienM | s/should/could/ | 20:15 |
| shardy | we need to land initial grenade support, then define javelin stuff so we can actually test persisting stacks over upgrade | 20:15 |
| shardy | Oh hey EmilienM, yeah if you have time to revisit it that would be great too | 20:15 |
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| asalkeld | shardy, does that test a rolling upgrade? | 20:16 |
| skraynev_ | shardy: sure, I'd interesting in it. | 20:16 |
| EmilienM | shardy: I can manage to have time. I don't want to abandon something I helped a bit | 20:16 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: aiui grenade tests a stop-start upgrade | 20:16 |
| shardy | EmilienM: could you work with skraynev_ and somehow divide the work of defining what's tested and implementing it? | 20:16 |
| stevebaker | asalkeld: looks like it kills heat, db upgrades, then starts heat again | 20:16 |
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| EmilienM | shardy: sure. | 20:16 |
| shardy | EmilienM: Ok, great, thanks | 20:16 |
| asalkeld | #action skraynev take over https://review.openstack.org/#/c/86978/ | 20:16 |
| asalkeld | ok | 20:16 |
| stevebaker | thanks skraynev_ | 20:17 |
| shardy | stevebaker: I don't have instack locally atm | 20:17 |
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| stevebaker | k | 20:17 |
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| asalkeld | ok, anything more on this? | 20:17 |
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| shardy | asalkeld: Last time I tried setup was very tricky, but that may have improved | 20:17 |
| shardy | asalkeld: not from me, thanks | 20:18 |
| asalkeld | ok | 20:18 |
| asalkeld | #topic kilo-1 status | 20:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "kilo-1 status (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:18 | |
| skraynev_ | EmilienM: I suggest connect via email ;) because near of midnight for me. So I start looking tomorrow. | 20:18 |
| asalkeld | #link https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/kilo-1 | 20:18 |
| EmilienM | skraynev_: emilien@redhat.com | 20:18 |
| asalkeld | there are a couple of bp i am not sure of the status there | 20:18 |
| skraynev_ | EmilienM: k | 20:19 |
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| asalkeld | any one know multi region status? | 20:19 |
| stevebaker | shouldn't that be assigned to Qiming? | 20:19 |
| asalkeld | and " Templates outputs need to be lazy loaded" | 20:19 |
| jpeeler | working on that ^ | 20:20 |
| tspatzier | asalkeld: I think Qiming is working in the multi region one | 20:20 |
| asalkeld | ok, i'll update the bp | 20:20 |
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| tspatzier | asalkeld: IIRC, stevebaker had some good comments so Qiming is working on an update | 20:20 |
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| asalkeld | ok as long as it is moving forward | 20:21 |
| asalkeld | i have taken shardy decouple stack bp | 20:21 |
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| asalkeld | we need to focus on reviewing bugs/bps on that list | 20:21 |
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| asalkeld | to make sure they land | 20:22 |
| shardy | asalkeld: I rebased decouple-nested, and fixed the first test failure today, help with the remaining tests would be great, thanks! | 20:22 |
| asalkeld | i might kick this back to k2:https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1319813 | 20:22 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1319813 in heat "no event recorded for INIT_* resources" [Medium,Triaged] | 20:22 |
| asalkeld | thx, shardy | 20:22 |
| asalkeld | zaneb, ^ | 20:23 |
| asalkeld | you set it to k1 | 20:23 |
| zaneb | that isn't even a bug | 20:23 |
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| zaneb | but it will probably happen as part of convergence anyway | 20:23 |
| asalkeld | to 'fix' it looks like a non-trivial amount of work to me | 20:23 |
| zaneb | not that it will change anything | 20:23 |
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| asalkeld | moved it to k2 | 20:24 |
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| asalkeld | anyone know if jpeeler is working on the lazy loading code? | 20:24 |
| jpeeler | asalkeld: yes i am | 20:24 |
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| asalkeld | ok, you think it can land in k1? | 20:25 |
| jpeeler | i do | 20:25 |
| asalkeld | cool | 20:25 |
| * zaneb should check the review again | 20:25 | |
| jpeeler | zaneb: nothing yet, will let you know | 20:25 |
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| zaneb | oh good :) | 20:25 |
| asalkeld | well i think we are in good shape then | 20:25 |
| zaneb | I hate when I'm holding everything up | 20:25 |
| asalkeld | are you? | 20:26 |
| zaneb | sometimes | 20:26 |
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| asalkeld | well half time bell | 20:26 |
| asalkeld | and we are out of topics | 20:26 |
| shardy | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/138800/ | 20:26 |
| shardy | heads-up we need to land that (or a sample conf sync) to unblock our gate | 20:27 |
| shardy | oslo.messaging released this afternoon | 20:27 |
| stevebaker | that needs devstack changes first, devstack starts with heat.conf.sample | 20:27 |
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| asalkeld | o - i quite like having a sample in tree to point people to | 20:28 |
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| shardy | stevebaker: Hmm, OK, I'll propose a sync and mark that WIP while we work that out | 20:28 |
| shardy | asalkeld: It's constantly breaking us | 20:28 |
| zaneb | other projects are ditching it though I think | 20:28 |
| stevebaker | I thought I made that comment in one of the other delete heat.conf.sample patches | 20:28 |
| asalkeld | not *that* often | 20:28 |
| * shardy shrugs | 20:29 | |
| asalkeld | shrug, seem we dont' have much of a choice | 20:29 |
| pas-ha | shardy - looks like some change must be made to devstack first | 20:29 |
| shardy | well I find it annoying anyway | 20:29 |
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| shardy | pas-ha: Yeah | 20:29 |
| pas-ha | it tries to stat the heat.conf.sample | 20:29 |
| shardy | stevebaker: evidently I missed those, apologies | 20:29 |
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| stevebaker | shardy: there is a tox env to generate a sample, devstack can call that instead | 20:30 |
| asalkeld | zaneb, you and inc0 want to fill us in on the convergence status | 20:30 |
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| inc0 | well, we've spoke with HP guys today, and agreed to meet up tomorrow | 20:30 |
| shardy | stevebaker: Yeah, I'm just thinking of the immediate step to un-break things | 20:30 |
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| * shardy waited 6 weeks to land his last devstack patch | 20:30 | |
| asalkeld | #topic open discussion | 20:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:30 | |
| stevebaker | shardy: maybe just this would be fine for now https://review.openstack.org/#/c/138800/2/tox.ini | 20:31 |
| inc0 | from my point of view: I hope I've answered questions from mailing list...now I think we just need to decide on approach | 20:31 |
| zaneb | I think we are close to settling on an approach | 20:31 |
| shardy | stevebaker: Ok, I'll break it into two patches, thanks | 20:31 |
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| zaneb | just figuring out the last differences in how to store the graph efficiently | 20:31 |
| asalkeld | ok | 20:32 |
| inc0 | zaneb, so you've already dropped out my approach? | 20:32 |
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| inc0 | :/ | 20:32 |
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| asalkeld | inc0, have you worked on it more? | 20:32 |
| zaneb | inc0: I... haven't changed my mind since my email last week | 20:32 |
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| asalkeld | does it fill the gaps that zaneb pointed out | 20:33 |
| zaneb | I haven't seen any new patches as of yesterday | 20:33 |
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| inc0 | I didn't really have time for coding unfortunately, but I hope I clarified that on email? | 20:33 |
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| zaneb | and I don't really want to wait another month to just come up with something equivalent to what we already have | 20:33 |
| inc0 | zaneb, it will never be equivalent because well..its different | 20:34 |
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| zaneb | what would change my mind at this point is a demonstration that phase 2 won't work with the other approaches | 20:34 |
| asalkeld | inc0, i think the problem we have with that approach is that there are some nagging questions that remain unanswered | 20:34 |
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| inc0 | asalkeld, ask then;) | 20:34 |
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| asalkeld | the rescheduling | 20:35 |
| inc0 | zaneb, have you guys solved things like concurrent update? | 20:35 |
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| inc0 | asalkeld, what do you mean by rescheduling? | 20:35 |
| zaneb | inc0: yeah. that is pretty much the entire point. | 20:35 |
| asalkeld | when to re-call converge() | 20:35 |
| asalkeld | and it's effect on the remaining actions | 20:35 |
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| inc0 | asalkeld, it doesn't matter, at first we can do call every few seconds | 20:36 |
| asalkeld | also the db load | 20:36 |
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| inc0 | I'm pretty sure db load can be dropped to n*logn and it can be heavily optimized by queries | 20:36 |
| inc0 | its hard to do optimization on dummy db... | 20:36 |
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| asalkeld | inc0, agree | 20:37 |
| shardy | stevebaker: https://review.openstack.org/138850 | 20:37 |
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| inc0 | for first version I was tinking of calling converge every few seconds | 20:37 |
| zaneb | well, it's easy to see what does lots of db calls and what doesn't | 20:37 |
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| inc0 | or when resource state change | 20:37 |
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| inc0 | zaneb, when you have things like joins, index lookups and so on you can optimize that | 20:38 |
| inc0 | also my initial mistake of using name as unique key took its toll | 20:38 |
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| stevebaker | shardy: +2, waiting for gate pass | 20:38 |
| asalkeld | i guess i am in favour of something at least somewhat logically proven - compared to an arguement | 20:38 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: +1 | 20:39 |
| shardy | stevebaker: thanks, I'll look at the devstack fix for the next patch now | 20:39 |
| inc0 | well, it does solve test cases;) | 20:39 |
| zaneb | we all agree that this stuff can _probably_ be solved given enough time | 20:39 |
| asalkeld | inc0, dont' get me wrong: i like what you have done | 20:39 |
| inc0 | I mean I'm not mentally bound to this one, but it does seem to solve biggest space of problems | 20:39 |
| zaneb | why would we take 90% chance of a solution in a month over 99% change of a solution right now? | 20:39 |
| stevebaker | speaking of which, porting the test cases to functional tests now would benefit all approaches, and would be hugely useful | 20:39 |
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| asalkeld | stevebaker, +1 | 20:40 |
| inc0 | zaneb, because it solves concurency problems | 20:40 |
| inc0 | in an elegant, non-hacky way | 20:40 |
| asalkeld | stevebaker, i might have to do that iwth shardy's decouple patches | 20:40 |
| inc0 | concurrent updates I mean | 20:40 |
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| inc0 | or this stuff https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/1260167 | 20:41 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1260167 in heat "heat autoscale scale up does not work if delete one instance manually " [Medium,Confirmed] | 20:41 |
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| asalkeld | so inc0 that is really phase 2 right? | 20:41 |
| inc0 | I mean it all can be solved by graph approach...but these problems simply won't happen | 20:41 |
| asalkeld | having a 'check' | 20:41 |
| inc0 | with my approach | 20:41 |
| asalkeld | and that should be solved | 20:42 |
| zaneb | inc0: it really doesn't. to the extent that the other approaches have a problem with concurrent updates (which is only when something is in mid-update and we don't know what to do), yours has exactly the same problem afaict | 20:42 |
| inc0 | well it doesn't have notion of mid-upgrade | 20:42 |
| inc0 | so I don't think that would be problem at all | 20:43 |
| zaneb | and yet the real world does, with existing plugins | 20:43 |
| asalkeld | yeah, there will be tasks working that you won't know what to do with | 20:43 |
| stevebaker | shardy: we have a regression in the functional tests http://logs.openstack.org/19/138819/1/check/check-heat-dsvm-functional-mysql/e9d51bc/console.html#_2014-12-03_19_10_38_802 | 20:43 |
| stevebaker | shardy: I think Qiming raised a bug, let me find it | 20:44 |
| inc0 | zaneb, we can simulate in_progress, but not build on it | 20:44 |
| inc0 | I mean in progress == actions left to perform | 20:44 |
| asalkeld | shardy, i can look at that | 20:44 |
| asalkeld | stevebaker, i mean | 20:44 |
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| stevebaker | asalkeld: ok, lets make that job voting as soon as its fixed | 20:45 |
| asalkeld | totally | 20:45 |
| inc0 | still, we can work on graph approach, no problem with me | 20:45 |
| shardy | stevebaker: interesting, great to see real issues getting caught :) | 20:45 |
| inc0 | it may give us something faster | 20:45 |
| inc0 | and we may learn more in the process | 20:46 |
| stevebaker | shardy: although I recall Qiming commenting that the test might need fixing, not the code | 20:46 |
| asalkeld | stevebaker, i'll raise a bug for it | 20:46 |
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| stevebaker | https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/1397945 | 20:47 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1397945 in heat "resource group fails validate a template resource type" [Undecided,New] | 20:47 |
| stevebaker | found it! | 20:47 |
| inc0 | I just hope we won't get ourselves into some hack-loop with concurrent stuff | 20:47 |
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| stevebaker | I'll mark it critical, since it breaks the gate job | 20:47 |
| asalkeld | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/1398973 | 20:48 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1398973 in heat "test_stack_update_provider_group integration test is failing" [Undecided,New] | 20:48 |
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| shardy | stevebaker: Possibly, I saw his bug but could not reproduce locally | 20:48 |
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| stevebaker | shardy: so running heat_integrationtests.functional.test_update didn't reproduce? maybe its a race | 20:49 |
| inc0 | anyway, whichever approach we take, I prefere to start implementing than arguing about PoC | 20:50 |
| inc0 | s | 20:50 |
| asalkeld | inc0, agree | 20:50 |
| asalkeld | we need to get cracking on this | 20:50 |
| asalkeld | we really don't want to land this to late (like right before release) | 20:51 |
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| inc0 | we can get back to this discussion at phase 2 | 20:51 |
| inc0 | when we won't have fire in our house | 20:52 |
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| asalkeld | stevebaker, we have bugs for templest | 20:52 |
| asalkeld | and we have a spec for functional tests | 20:53 |
| asalkeld | do we need both? | 20:53 |
| zaneb | inc0: what makes you think the pressure ever lets up? ;) | 20:53 |
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| inc0 | zaneb, I know it never is, thats why I'll be secretly preparing one big stateless fire extinguisher;) | 20:53 |
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| stevebaker | asalkeld: we need to rename all those tempest tags, maybe to 'functional'. They could stay as wishlist bugs though. | 20:54 |
| asalkeld | ok | 20:54 |
| asalkeld | i'd like to target some to k2 | 20:55 |
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| asalkeld | and get people commited to them | 20:55 |
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| asalkeld | 5mins | 20:55 |
| stevebaker | asalkeld: things have likely moved on a bit since then. I'd much rather see functional tests for native resources than the AWS ones | 20:55 |
| inc0 | asalkeld, any chances we could talk tomorrow about getting few actions drafted to start working on upgrades? | 20:55 |
| asalkeld | sure inc0 | 20:56 |
| asalkeld | i'd love to progress that | 20:56 |
| inc0 | I'll bug you about that tomorrow then (for you it will be later today;)) | 20:56 |
| asalkeld | k | 20:56 |
| inc0 | o/ | 20:57 |
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| asalkeld | i'll end this 2 early then | 20:57 |
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| asalkeld | #endmeeting | 20:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:57 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 3 20:57:47 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:57 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2014/heat.2014-12-03-20.00.html | 20:57 |
| skraynev_ | thx all, g'night | 20:57 |
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| asalkeld | thanks all | 20:57 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2014/heat.2014-12-03-20.00.txt | 20:57 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2014/heat.2014-12-03-20.00.log.html | 20:57 |
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