Wednesday, 2014-12-03

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mateljohnthetubaguy: meeting time?15:03
johnthetubaguymatel: yes, it is, one sec15:03
matelsure15:03
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johnthetubaguy#startmeeting XenAPI15:04
openstackMeeting started Wed Dec  3 15:04:40 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is johnthetubaguy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:04
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:04
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:04
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'xenapi'15:04
johnthetubaguy#topic XenServer CI15:04
*** openstack changes topic to "XenServer CI (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:04
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johnthetubaguyhows things going?15:05
matelBob has another meeting, so it's only me15:05
matelWe deployed a new CI, and made the changeover15:05
johnthetubaguycool, is that the switch to more upstream branches?15:06
matelSeems to work nicely, the updated nodepool deals better with the cloud errors15:06
johnthetubaguyall good15:06
matelKind -of upstream - a bit closer.15:06
matelWe have an ongoing discussion about our patches.15:06
johnthetubaguycloser is better :)15:06
matelThe main point is that nodepool does a better job.15:06
johnthetubaguyoh yeah, we need config drive to configure networking better15:07
johnthetubaguyanyways15:07
matelWe might look at DIB, but that's really a stretch.15:07
johnthetubaguyyeah15:07
matelFOr now, we are able to deploy a CI in minutes with scripts.15:07
johnthetubaguyawesome15:07
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matelAnd that enables us to launch a dev CI, which will run neutron15:07
johnthetubaguyyeah, perfect15:07
johnthetubaguyhows the neutron push going?15:07
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matelThis way we can play with that, and investigate in a more public way.15:08
matelWell, I'm not sure what I told you, it's ok in serial, but in parallel it dies.15:08
matelI guess we had a chat about that last week15:08
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johnthetubaguyoh yes15:09
matelAnd no progress on that area since then. Once we have a public (ish) CI, we can start to investigate further15:09
johnthetubaguycool, sounds good15:09
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johnthetubaguyany more on CI?15:09
matelOkay, Bob also added monitoring to the CI15:09
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matelwatching the status pages, and setting the statusbased onthe reports.15:10
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johnthetubaguyOK, do we have a link for that?15:10
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matelWell, it's the rackspace monitoring stuff15:10
matelI see some dots next to my instance.15:10
johnthetubaguyah, I see15:10
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matelSo we'll need to find a way to somehow export those "Plugins" - which are doing the logic, in case we re-install the instance15:11
johnthetubaguyyeah15:11
matelSo that's all really - news are mainly CI related, and the plan is to create a dev one with neutron.15:12
johnthetubaguy#topic Other15:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Other (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:12
matelAny news from the RAX side?15:12
johnthetubaguy#info https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1398826 is the nasty one that cause our snapshot issues15:12
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1398826 in nova "xenapi: upload failures causing image to go active" [Medium,In progress]15:12
johnthetubaguyI uploaded a the fix for that15:12
* matel is looking at the link15:12
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matelJenkins doesn't like it, or is it some noise?15:13
matelBad boy, pep815:13
matelAh, yes the terminator.15:13
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matelThat's nasty indeed.15:14
johnthetubaguyyeah, jenkins is a bit broken, at least I think thats why its doing -115:14
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matelYes, it doesn't look like a real pep8 issue15:14
matel40415:14
johnthetubaguyyeah, I think the mirrors are struggling with the oslo releases at the moment15:15
johnthetubaguyanyways, made the bug and patch public15:15
johnthetubaguyI think thats the major news, not much right now15:16
matelcool15:16
matelI see.15:16
matelOne question15:16
johnthetubaguysure15:16
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matelare there any plans for testing the plugins?15:16
johnthetubaguyyes, I have a patch for that15:16
matelCould you send me the link?15:16
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johnthetubaguy#info https://review.openstack.org/#/c/128886/15:17
johnthetubaguywe need to get XenAPI into the global dependencies file though15:17
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matelI'll look at that patch.15:18
johnthetubaguyOK, its a bit WIP right now, just not had time to finish it off15:18
johnthetubaguyits a little on the hack-ey side15:18
matelyes, would be better if we didn't need that dependency15:18
matelIt's progress.15:19
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matelAre you sure you need that import?15:19
matelhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/128886/1/plugins/xenserver/xenapi/etc/xapi.d/plugins/utils.py15:19
matelAh, that's XenAPIPlugin15:20
matelmy bad15:20
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johnthetubaguyits a bit funky15:20
johnthetubaguybut it does work, just15:20
matelYou can mock imports as well15:20
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johnthetubaguywell, wanted to keep it as normal as possible, but lets see15:21
matelQuite a hard task tbh15:21
johnthetubaguywell, having something to start adding the tests when needed, thats better than where we are now15:21
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mateltrue15:22
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matelAnything else on your side sir?15:22
johnthetubaguythere is an internal plugin we have to upload directly to swift, I did almost full coverage of that, and it wasn't too painful15:22
johnthetubaguybut yeah, we are done I think15:22
johnthetubaguythanks for all the hard work on the CI15:22
matelNo problem15:23
johnthetubaguy#topic next meeting15:23
*** openstack changes topic to "next meeting (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:23
matelNext week?15:23
johnthetubaguyso next week, I am in texas15:23
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matelAh, I see15:23
johnthetubaguyso I *should* be able to make the meeting15:23
johnthetubaguybut I am not 100% sure15:23
matelLet's aim for that, if you see it's failing, just drop an email to us15:23
matelWe'll skip it without you.15:24
johnthetubaguyits 9am, so its likely to be traffic related, but if I am not logged into IRC by 5 past, its unlikely15:24
johnthetubaguyOK15:24
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johnthetubaguyI will do my best to make it, will let you know if its called off15:24
johnthetubaguycools15:24
matelno problem, if you don't turn up, we'll know where you are.15:24
johnthetubaguyhopefully catch you next week15:24
johnthetubaguy#endmeeting15:25
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:25
openstackMeeting ended Wed Dec  3 15:25:03 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:25
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2014/xenapi.2014-12-03-15.04.html15:25
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2014/xenapi.2014-12-03-15.04.txt15:25
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2014/xenapi.2014-12-03-15.04.log.html15:25
matelOk, have a nice flight.15:25
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johnthetubaguymatel: finger crossed15:25
matel:-)15:25
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thingee#startmeeting cinder16:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Dec  3 16:00:20 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is thingee. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.16:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'cinder'16:00
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jungleboyjo?16:00
scottdahi16:00
jungleboyjo/16:00
cknightHi16:00
rushil\o16:00
lpabonhi16:00
thingeehello all16:00
kaisershi16:00
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thingeeagenda today16:00
hemna_mornin16:01
thingee#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CinderMeetings16:01
avishayhello16:01
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e0nehi16:01
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thingeeI sent an email to new driver maintainers that have a bp for k-1.16:01
Swansonhello16:01
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bswartz1.o/16:01
smcginniso/16:01
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dustins_\o16:02
xyang1hi16:02
thingeeIf I don't see code by the end of this week, I'm afraid we won't have time to review it.16:02
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thingeeso just fyi, I will start to untarget bps16:02
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smcginnisthingee: I thought the 15th was the deadline previously stated.16:02
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thingeesmcginnis: reread the email16:02
SwansonAnd there it is in my junk folder....16:02
thingeethe 15th is for november16:03
flip214thingee: even if eg. snapshots are not fully implemented yet? didn't get an email.16:03
ameade_o/16:03
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thingeeok lets start16:03
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thingee#topic should openstack-cinder room be archived?16:03
*** openstack changes topic to "should openstack-cinder room be archived? (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:03
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scottdaso, Cinder is not archived here: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/16:03
thingeescottda: you're up16:03
scottdabut it could be.16:03
thingeeI have no problems with this16:03
asselin_o/16:03
akerr+116:03
flip214+116:04
kaisers+116:04
e0nescottda: +116:04
scottdaI was told in the Infra channel to get a resolution at this meeting and they'd do it.16:04
asselin_+116:04
thingeescottda: looks golden :)16:04
thingeeanything else?16:04
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avishayfine by me16:04
scottdanope.16:04
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jgriffith+116:04
hemna_yah it's ok.16:04
DuncanT+116:04
hemna_no more pr0n links in the channel guys.16:04
scottdaIs there some kind of magic you need to do thingee?16:04
xyang1fine with me16:04
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thingee#topic Continue the discussion on over subscription16:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Continue the discussion on over subscription (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:04
e0nehemha_ :(16:04
thingeexyang1: you're up16:04
jungleboyjI have no concerns.  Have wished I had it in the past. +116:04
xyang1ok16:04
xyang1so we talked about it last week16:04
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thingee#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/129342/16:05
bswartz1xyang and I have had a few conversations about this16:05
xyang1I discussed with bswartz and sorted out some differences and updated the spec16:05
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bswartz1I decided to drop most of my objections last week after we reached agreement on the thick/thin provisioning capbilities16:05
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bswartz1I still thing we need to tweak the capabilities and extra specs (I think there should be 2, not 1)16:06
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bswartz1but on the whole I'm pretty happy with the form xyang's spec takes now16:06
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thingeebswartz1: what does that mean 2, not one?is there explicit limit in the spec?16:06
bswartz1should we discuss the capabilities/extra specs here, or in the spec review on gerrit?16:06
xyang1so the capabilities is the provisioning_capabilities, right now it can be thin, thick, or both16:06
bswartz1the spec suggests 1 capability with 3 values16:07
bswartz1I think I'd prefer 2 boolean capabilities16:07
thingeexyang1: why is that?16:07
DuncanTWhat does 'both' mean?16:07
xyang1thingee: I can go either way. I put it together quickly last night16:07
bswartz1something like "supports_thick_volumes" and "supports_thin_volumes"16:07
jgriffithDuncanT: some devices let you "pick"16:07
DuncanTAh, got you16:07
xyang1both means it supports both thin and thick16:07
DuncanTThanks16:07
DuncanTI was thinking extra specs, not capabilities16:08
DuncanTMy bad16:08
xyang1there's extra specs too16:08
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jgriffithxyang1: bswartz1 how about "supported_provision_types=x,y,z"16:08
thingeebswartz1: sounds like that can be accounted for16:08
thingeejust the spec needs to be updated16:08
jgriffithwhere x=thick, y=thin, z=both16:08
bswartz1jgriffith: it's impossible for the scheduler to filter on that16:08
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thingeejgriffith: sure16:08
jgriffithbswartz1: why?16:08
bswartz1for filtering to work, it's better to have a list of booleans16:08
jgriffithbswartz1: disagree :)16:09
xyang1jgriffith: I think that is the current proposal16:09
jgriffithxyang1: yes, but discussion started aroudn booleans, names etc16:09
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avishaythe scheduler can filter on lots of things, you just have to set the extra specs correctly16:09
xyang1ok16:09
jgriffithxyang1: just trying to inject some sanity and keep things readable and understandable16:09
bswartz1well..... maybe I'm lacking a clue here16:09
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xyang1I'm fine with whatever the team has decided on this one16:10
jgriffithbswartz1: really by what I just proposed you can treat it as 3 booleans to eval in a single stat16:10
jgriffithbswartz1: still does what you're proposing, just less verbose16:10
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thingeejgriffith: makes sense. I'm not sure what the problem is here.16:10
avishaybswartz1: look at the oslo scheduler code, it has lots of keywords to filter by16:10
jgriffithbswartz1: ans easier to deal with16:10
avishayjgriffith: +116:10
bswartz1I just want to make sure that admins are able to specify that some volume_types MUST be thick, while others must be thin, and maybe some don't care16:10
thingeebswartz1: sure16:11
jgriffithbswartz1: noted :)16:11
bswartz1and backends need to be able to advertise what they support16:11
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jgriffithbswartz1: provisioning_type=thin...16:11
jgriffithmust have "thin" in the results16:11
jgriffithif you don't care, you omit the spec from the type altogether16:12
bswartz1okay jgriffith I will try that out16:12
* jgriffith is worried he's missing something16:12
thingeebswartz1: are there any other issues besides that? if not, I'm sure xyang1 is going to treat herself to a milkshake with that spec being merged.16:12
bswartz1perhaps I underestimated how smart the filtering is in the scheduler16:12
jgriffithmmmmmmm.... milkshakes16:12
xyang1thingee :)16:12
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* jungleboyj wants a milkshake16:13
hemna_we specify thin,thick in our volume types already.  not sure how this affects that if at all16:13
bswartz1>_< it's lunchtime here and you're talking about delicious food16:13
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thingeeI'm going to take that as a no then. So I will look for a +1 from bswartz1 on that spec.16:13
thingeeanything else xyang1?16:13
xyang1all set16:14
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bswartz1I'll +1 the spec after I convince myself that the capabilities/extra_specs are good enough16:14
bswartz1I don't expect there will be any issues16:14
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thingee#topic Discussion on the current status of this spec "Support Modifying Volume Image Metadata"16:14
*** openstack changes topic to "Discussion on the current status of this spec "Support Modifying Volume Image Metadata" (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:14
thingeedavechen: hi16:14
davechenhi16:14
thingee#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/136253/16:14
davechenthingee: hi16:14
jgriffithwe're doing this again :)16:15
thingeeDuncanT: present?16:15
* jgriffith quickly reads spec16:15
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davechenyes, I just update the spec some mins ago.16:15
avishaybswartz1: https://github.com/openstack/cinder/blob/master/cinder/openstack/common/scheduler/filters/extra_specs_ops.py16:15
DuncanTYup16:15
DuncanTI think the delete confusion is now sorted?16:16
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bswartz1avishay: ty16:16
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jgriffithdavechen: can you describe a use case for me real quick?16:16
davechensure16:16
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davechenThis blueprint is actually a partial task of Graffiti project,16:17
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jgriffithdavechen: and you lost me :)16:17
davechenno16:17
thingeeI'm also not entirely sure I get graffiti myself16:17
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thingeethat's another topic though16:17
jgriffiththingee: +116:17
hemna_spray paint, wall, big letters.16:17
jgriffithlet's focus on a cinder use case as related to this spec16:18
davechenon, the intention of this BP is support modifying image metadata in cinder16:18
* jungleboyj is resisting the urge to make a Graffiti joke.16:18
jungleboyjThanks hemna_16:18
hemna_jungleboyj, :P16:18
jgriffithdavechen: yes, but the question is "why"16:18
jgriffithor at least "my question"16:18
thingeejgriffith: mine too16:18
davechenthere is one question in the BP.16:19
avishaydavechen: i think the question is, you created an volume from an image, and the volume's image metadata reflects the source.  why would  you need to change it?16:19
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jgriffithdavechen: your problem statement describes what you want to do, but I don't quite see the *problem* or the *why*16:19
thingeedavechen: I've glanced through it myself. can you point me to which line?16:19
jgriffithavishay: correct... and more importantly should you be allowed to change it16:19
davechenwe need change it as the part of task of graffiti.16:19
DuncanTavishay: Because a volume is mutable. I install a new kernel, maybe it needs different metadata (e.g. the attach method for BfV)16:19
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hemna_davechen, what is the volume metadata missing at that point that prevents graffiti from working ?16:20
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jgriffithDuncanT: so your making the decision to just cut glance out of the picture then?16:20
jgriffithDuncanT: not saying that's bad :)16:20
thingeedavechen: I understand graffiti needs to change it, but *why*.16:20
davechenLINE8116:20
avishayDuncanT: I would expect the user to do volume->image with the updated metadata16:20
DuncanTjgriffith: Once glance has created the bootable volume, it *is* out of the picture for that volume16:21
thingeedavechen: rest api impact?16:21
jgriffithavishay: +116:21
thingeedavechen: I'm not sure I'm following16:21
davechenyes, i am not sure whether we need a new API to handle image metadata16:21
davechenDelete API16:21
DuncanTavishay: Upload it to glance and suck it back down just to change one piece of metadata?16:21
thingeedavechen: I'm not sure if use cases are thought out given how this discussion is going. I'm going to defer this topic until there are stated use cases listed on this spec.16:22
thingeeand api is not a use case.16:22
jgriffithDuncanT: I don't see the necessity16:22
jgriffithDuncanT: dont' see why it needs to be in Glance necessarily either16:22
davechennova scheduler need the metadata information for vm schedule16:22
DuncanTjgriffith: Some of the glance metadata affects how nova sets up the volume attachment16:22
jgriffithDuncanT: and the only thing I see as a use case here is Graffiti16:22
ameade_why the heck does nova care the volume came from an image "Cinder volume_image_metadata is used by nova for things like scheduling and16:22
ameade_for setting device driver options"16:22
avishayDuncanT: i assume if you have your images in glance, and you make a change to an image that is noteworthy, you would store it in glance again.  ideally uploading and sucking it back are just CoW operations :)16:23
jgriffithDuncanT: sure.... but not that much really16:23
jgriffithDuncanT: maybe you have a use case to share?16:23
ameade_DuncanT: jgriffith: doesn't that seem like the real issue here?16:23
jgriffithameade_: let's not side track :)16:23
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DuncanTjgriffith: The only usecase I have is a long running bootable volume I upgrade the kernel on such that a different attach method is prefered16:23
DuncanTjgriffith: It's pretty niche but is a usecase16:24
davechenimo, the spec is basically ready for approval :)16:24
jgriffithDuncanT: meh... I'm not getting it16:24
jgriffithTo me it's a solution without a real problem16:24
DuncanTjgriffith: I'll get the exact key names and such and put a comment on the spec16:24
avishayi don't think it's that important, but if it is for some people, i don't think it's that big of a deal to implement and include16:25
DuncanTjgriffith: You can do it by uploading to glance, editting the metadata there and re-downloading, but that is a faff16:25
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davechenI copy the problem desc here.16:25
jgriffithDuncanT: and IIRC KVM at least is not very picky about kernel version16:25
hemna_sorrison, on the reverse, what is the downside to allowing updating the metadata ?16:25
davechenWhen creating a bootable volume from an image, the image metadata (properties)is copied into a volume property named volume_image_metadata.16:25
hemna_gah16:25
jgriffithbut I'm wasting everybody's time I fear16:25
hemna_so16:25
davechenCinder volume_image_metadata is used by nova for things like scheduling and16:25
davechenfor setting device driver options. This information may need to change after16:25
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jgriffithhemna_: breaks things like cached copies of image16:25
davechenthe volume has been created from an image, besides, the additional properties16:26
DuncanTjgriffith: Why? I don't see how16:26
hemna_jgriffith, but the image is untouched.  I don't see how that breaks cached images ?16:26
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DuncanTjgriffith: The image in glance is still mutable16:26
jgriffithDuncanT: if I have a cached copy of image FOO on my backend device16:26
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jgriffithDuncanT: you update the metadata16:26
ameade_davechen: wouldn't it be better if that information lived in volume metadata?16:26
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ameade_DuncanT: glance images are immutable16:26
ameade_it's a core tenant16:26
jgriffithNext person that comes along and want a Voluem with FOO image... I say "oh, got it... here ya go"16:27
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DuncanTjgriffith: The cached copy doesn't get touched at all16:27
davechenameade_: nova just use image metadata16:27
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hemna_DuncanT, yah I don't understant hat16:27
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hemna_that16:27
avishaythingee gave up16:27
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DuncanTjgriffith: Only the db record associated with one specific live, mutable copy of that image gets changed16:27
jgriffithDuncanT: so then I really don't get the point :(16:28
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jgriffithDuncanT: anyway... maybe you and davechen can write up a real problem statement16:28
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jgriffithand I'll see the light16:28
jgriffith:)16:28
DuncanTjgriffith: The metadata is associated with what is in the image. Once you change the contents of the volume, that data, for that specific volume, can be out of date16:28
jgriffithI'm just not getting it.  As far as downside, maybe there's not one16:28
DuncanTI'll work on a concrete example16:29
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jgriffithDuncanT: yeah, that's my point16:29
jgriffiththe cached copy never has the kernel update for example16:29
davecheni want to know if can get any review comments and fix them asap before spec freeze?16:29
jgriffithbut the image still has the same ID16:29
thingeeDuncanT: seems problematic. volumes are going to change. metadata will always be out of date16:29
jgriffithright?16:29
ameade_i'll post some thoughts on the spec16:29
DuncanTThe cached copy isn't having its metadata changed, only the live volume is16:29
hemna_davechen, maybe give some concrete examples of what nova needs to change in the metadata that prevents things from working as needed.16:29
jgriffithIt's anit-cloudy if nothing else16:29
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jgriffithDuncanT: yes, but you're missing what I'm saying16:30
avishayi'm not sure what "cached copy" means16:30
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jgriffithUser loads an image on the vol.... updates the kernel16:30
jgriffithupdates the metadata16:30
DuncanTjgriffith: That metadata will get used next boot from that vol16:30
jgriffithDoes that update go anywhere else?  Does the metadata change go back up to glance?16:30
davechenhemna_: nova needn't do any changes16:30
avishayjgriffith: no, just on the volume, not in glance16:30
* hemna_ is confused then.16:30
jgriffithDuncanT: so that metadata change is *isolated* to that particular volume?16:31
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jgriffithDuncanT: ahhh... ok!!!16:31
DuncanTjgriffith: It will only go back to glance if the user uploads that volume as a new image16:31
thingeeI don't get the point of it. if you change the kernel, make a new image, set the metadata...but don't worry about chasing the contents of the volume and keeping the metadata accurate.16:31
jgriffithNow we're talking!!16:31
DuncanTjgriffith: Yes16:31
DuncanTjgriffith: Totally isolated16:31
jgriffithDuncanT: in that case I don't care :)16:31
DuncanTjgriffith: Sorry, I thought that was clear16:31
avishayjgriffith: +116:31
jgriffithDuncanT: thank you very much for exaplaining the details16:31
jgriffithDuncanT: no, based on 5 of us asking about it I don't think it was clear at all16:31
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avishaythingee: yes, i guess the user needs to keep the volume contents and the metadata in sync for some cases, which seems odd16:32
DuncanTjgriffith: NP, glad we could sort out which bits were unclear :-)16:32
jgriffithdavechen: PLEASE put a note in the spec explicitly pointing out that this ONLY affects the individual volume16:32
thingeeavishay: It will get outdated. just doesn't seem worth it16:32
davechenjgriffith: sure.16:32
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jgriffithavishay: yeah, I still don't see the point, but now I don't care because it won't break things I don't think16:32
DuncanTthingee: The glance metadata stored by cinder gets actively used to make decissions at boot time16:33
DuncanTjgriffith: +1 - You shouldn't care for the most part16:33
avishaythingee: outdated is OK as long as it doesn't break things, but if nova is relying on it, that's a bit sketchy16:33
davechenjgriffith, DuncanT: any other gaps in the spec?16:33
thingeeDuncanT: and it will do it wrong. humans are going to forget to update metadata.16:33
thingeeDuncanT: images are more a point in time than volumes are ever changing16:33
hemna_davechen, I still think having a use case in the spec is valuable.16:33
jgriffithdavechen: If you could point out the "decisions" that Duncan is eluding to that would be great16:33
DuncanTthingee: This is not for an image though, it is for a volume16:33
jgriffithdavechen: I'm a fan of requiring a real use case proposed and described in specs16:34
DuncanTjgriffith: I'll find an example, no problem16:34
jgriffiththanks, sorry to take up so much time on that16:34
jgriffiththingee: humans forget.... whaaaat you say?16:34
jgriffith:)16:34
jungleboyj:-)16:34
davechenjgriffith: I define some use case in the spec.16:34
thingeeDuncanT: I think you would have better luck have a new volume from an image if you want to rely on that metadata.16:35
hemna_davechen, +116:35
hemna_thingee, this is metadata on a volume, not an image16:35
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DuncanTthingee: So you have to create an image, edit the metadata in glance then suck the image back down just to get new metadata associated with the volume... that sucks16:35
thingeehemna_: create a volume from an image is my point16:35
thingeehemna_: is where you would have more luck of that metadata being accurate16:35
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thingeethe contents of the volume hasn't changed as much, because it's a new volume from an image.16:36
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jgriffiththingee: I think you're on the same concept I was stuck on16:36
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thingeeDuncanT: better than having false positives with a 6 month old volume saying it has kernel X16:36
hemna_yah, this isn't metadata on the image16:36
jgriffiththingee: this is for the volume only16:36
hemna_this is metadata about the image on a volume.16:36
DuncanTjgriffith: +116:36
jgriffiththingee: NO change to image at all16:36
jgriffiththingee: just let's you do things like update the boot info for that particular volume that you might modify16:37
avishayi see what thingee is saying, and i don't think he's confused :)16:37
jgriffiththingee: so you can start with a base and build off of it16:37
ameade_so why do we call it volume IMAGE metadata16:37
jgriffithavishay: thingee Oh, sorry16:37
jgriffithin that case I'll shut my mouth and read again16:37
ameade_like i'm trying to say, just shove this info in volume metadata16:37
hemna_ameade_, I think it's data about the image where the volume came from?16:37
ameade_i posted on the spec16:37
winston-dameade_: you made a good point16:37
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ameade_hemna_: yeah, which doesnt make sense to change16:38
DuncanTameade_: Historical reasons16:38
thingeeI'll review the spec again once things are updated, but it sounds like this error prone. I understand this is metadata with the volume. *that's* the problem16:38
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avishayif you store "golden images" in glance, and you made a significant change in one (by way of a volume), i would expect the user to put it in glance for themselves/others to use16:38
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winston-dameade_: to me, the only missing point is the abliity for nova to consume volume metadata.16:38
ameade_winston-d: +116:38
DuncanTwinston-d: nova does consume it16:38
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winston-djgriffith: in the case like TRIM support16:38
thingeedavechen: anything else?16:38
jgriffithwinston-d: hmmm...16:39
DuncanTTRIM is different IMO16:39
thingee#topic Posix backup driver replaces NFS backup driver16:39
*** openstack changes topic to "Posix backup driver replaces NFS backup driver (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:39
davechenthingee: yes, i really cannot catch your idea.16:39
jgriffithwinston-d: but why would you do that instead of just letting file systems be file systems and do their thing?16:39
thingeenfs backup driver:16:39
thingee#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/138234/116:39
thingeeposix backup driver:16:39
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thingee#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82996/16:39
thingeedavechen: likewise16:40
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bswartz1is tbarron here?16:40
thingeekevin fox has proposed that the nfs backup driver is replaced with the posix backup driver16:40
thingee#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/130858/16:40
winston-djgriffith: to let kernel/file system do their thing, you have to present a storage controller that appears to kernel that support TRIM.16:40
thingeeis kevin fox here?16:41
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rushilbswartz: Nope16:41
bswartz1I thought tbarron and kevin fox were talking between themselves about these 2 options16:41
avishayseems neither are here16:41
winston-djgriffith: and nova relies on image metadata (only) to decide, which is sad for BFV.16:41
DuncanTwinston-d: Nova uses the cinder copy though, it doesn't pull it from glance for BfV16:42
thingeeI agree with DuncanT that the posix backup driver should be using some code that's already in swift. it's just duplicating code.16:42
bswartz1we believe the NFS backup driver is better, and possibly could be generalized to support other (posix) use cases16:42
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jgriffithwinston-d: answered in #cinder so not to interrupt here :)16:42
DuncanTwinston-d: It used to, but we fixed it because you can delete an image from glance and that used to break the BfV16:42
thingeebswartz1: it's better if you support dedup, right?16:42
thingeebswartz1: I think that's what kevin was getting it at16:42
bswartz1there were a few things we didn't like about the posix driver -- several options would need to be added for it to be acceptable for us16:43
bswartz1I thought tbarron has worked all that out though16:43
bswartz1had*16:43
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bswartz1since neither are here to argue their case, I suggest we revisit it next week16:43
thingeesounds fine to me. I see this pushed to k-2 now anyways16:43
DuncanTI'd really like to see the de-dupe done before merging this driver16:43
ameade_bswartz1: +1, and the conversation on the review isnt' complete16:43
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avishayis the posix driver supposed to be the choice for all filesystem drivers, like nfs, netapp, gluster, gpfs, etc?16:44
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thingeeavishay: yes16:44
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bswartz1avishay: that was the theory -- but he implementation has limitations we don't like16:44
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ameade_not all filesystems are created equal16:44
ameade_but lets shelve this16:44
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thingeebswartz1: I'm interested, because it doesn't make sense to me right now. :)16:44
akerrwon't you end up with one driver with 1000 options in that case?16:44
jgriffithbswartz1: you keep saying "we didn't like" "didn't work for us"16:44
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bswartz1jgriffith: I'm summarizing the discussion -- the details should be in the spec review16:45
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thingeebswartz1: I read the spec review, it didn16:45
thingeet make sense16:45
bswartz1oy16:45
avishayakerr: i can't imagine 1000 options for "take this file, put it there"16:46
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bswartz1one thing in particular that causes problem is that kevin's driver gzips everything16:46
ameade_will the posix driver mount an nfs share for me?16:46
bswartz1that makes it very hard to do incrementals16:46
akerreach filesystem type can have its own optimizations16:46
avishayconf.gzip_everything = False16:46
thingeeOk, I agree we can defer this, but this isn't very productive to keep discussions elsewhere if we're all going to make a decision on these drivers.16:46
thingeeavishay: +116:46
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bswartz1avishay: those are the kinds of changes we would want to see if kevin's driver is the one we use16:47
thingee#topic RemoteFS snapshots16:47
thingeekaisers: hello16:47
*** openstack changes topic to "RemoteFS snapshots (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:47
kaisersthingee: thanks16:47
thingee#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/remotefs-snaps16:47
kaisersThis is about refactoring the remotefs driver16:47
kaisershas been started some time ago (see blueprint)16:47
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kaisersand due to our work on the quobyte driver becomes current now as we have some code duplication with other remotefs derived drivers16:48
avishayyea i've been asking for this since havana :)16:48
kaisersi just wanted to announce that we want to start on this in the next weeks16:48
kaisersand see who is interested in this16:48
avishaykaisers: quobyte doesn't support snapshots i assume?16:48
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kaiserstrying to bash tempest in accepting the code right now ;-)16:49
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eharneystart on what exactly?16:49
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kaisersmoving code from quobyte.py, glusterfs.py, etc. to remotefs.py16:49
kaiserse.g. online snapshots, lock wrappers, etc.16:49
kaisersi would start by creating a blueprint / spec on what to change16:50
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avishaylocks are bad16:50
kaiserswe already have a list of proposed changes from the duplications we saw in our code16:50
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thingeekaisers: is that list on an etherpad or something?16:50
kaisersi just didn't want to start this without having everybody know16:50
jgriffithavishay: Now you're talking!!!!!16:51
eharneyi'll be working on snapshots for the NFS driver (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/133074/) and presumably looking at similar issues... maybe we should come up with a more specific list16:51
kaiserscurrently not, i intended to add this to the spec16:51
kaiserseharney: Yep16:51
thingeekaisers: a spec, even better :)16:51
thingeekaisers: sounds good to me, and thanks for starting this16:51
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kaisersas soon as if complete the online snapshots with the quobyte driver (one test fails) i wanted to start this16:52
thingeekaisers: makes sense. can people just ping you on #openstack-cinder if they want to help out?16:52
kaisersabsolutely, yes16:52
thingeegreat16:52
eharneyyes, i'd like to make sure we don't duplicate effort16:52
thingeekaisers: anything else?16:52
eharneysounds good though16:52
kaisersnope, that's it16:52
thingee#topic Open discussion16:53
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:53
thingee7 mins left16:53
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DuncanTThere's the let-nova-put-volumes-in-error spec that I still don't understand16:54
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thingeeDuncanT: link?16:54
xyang1DuncanT: is that ours?16:54
DuncanTIf anybody can explain why you'd ever want nova to do that, I'd appreciate it16:54
DuncanTxyang1: I think so, yeah16:54
xyang1currently nova put volume status back to available16:55
xyang1then but backend already attached the volume16:55
xyang1they are out of sync16:55
xyang1so that is not right either16:55
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xyang1if volume is 'error' instead of 'available', it at least tells admin something is wrong16:55
xyang1that is the purpose16:55
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avishayxyang1: doesn't nova call terminate_connection and allow the driver to reset?16:56
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DuncanTxyang1: error means the tenant can now do nothing with their volume16:56
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xyang1avishay: not in this case16:56
DuncanTxyang1: It should just be terminate_connection16:56
xyang1when initialize_connection times out, it didn't16:56
xyang1but we will be adding that16:56
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xyang1even so, it could still fail16:56
DuncanTxyang1: If there's a missing call to terminate then fixing that is sensible16:56
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xyang1if it still fail, error is more consistent with the status in the backend16:57
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DuncanTBut nova shouldn't get to make that decision16:57
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xyang1DuncanT: yes, we are adding a terminate_connection call16:57
xyang1but if that also fails, the status will still be 'available' in cinder while in the backend it is attached16:57
DuncanTSo when cinder transitions from attaching back to available, it should tell the driver to terminate16:58
avishayxyang1: why doesn't the backend clean up on terminate_connection?16:58
xyang1DuncanT: currently it will be changed from 'attaching' to 'available'. that is not right either16:58
jgriffithavishay: that would seem better... clean up, if you can't fail and put volume in error16:59
xyang1avishay: if terminate_connection still times out, then we are still out of sync16:59
DuncanTxyang1: It should be made available on timeout. If we need to call the driver terminate at that point then we can16:59
jungleboyjjgriffith: +116:59
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jgriffithxyang1: ah... and round and round it goes16:59
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jgriffithxyang1: get a faster API :)16:59
jgriffithquit timing out on everything16:59
avishayyou have the cinder DB mirroring your backend's metadata, obviously things will go out of sync17:00
xyang1basically if terminate_connection still can't fix it, set it to error17:00
xyang1jgriffith: :)17:00
thingeethanks everyone17:00
thingee#endmeeting17:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:00
openstackMeeting ended Wed Dec  3 17:00:14 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2014/cinder.2014-12-03-16.00.html17:00
avishaythingee: thanks!17:00
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openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2014/cinder.2014-12-03-16.00.txt17:00
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openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2014/cinder.2014-12-03-16.00.log.html17:00
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bswartz1milkshake time!17:00
kaisersthanks!17:00
jgriffithxyang1: yeah, that's what I was getting at17:00
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thingeebswartz1: +117:00
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tjones#startmeeting vmwareapi17:00
jgriffithxyang1: you're out of sync, but it's not as dangerous at least17:00
rushiagr:)17:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Dec  3 17:00:33 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is tjones. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:00
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'vmwareapi'17:00
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tjoneshi folks17:00
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jgriffithxyang1: and then we can try and add recovery via reset or whatever17:00
jgriffithoops.. sorry folks17:00
tjonesno worries17:01
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tjonesanyone here for vmwareapi?17:01
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tjoneslistening....17:03
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zz_zz_zz_zz_zz_zI am here17:05
zz_zz_zz_zz_zz_zhaha this is Sabari17:05
tjonesnice17:05
tjoneswell so far it's just you and me17:05
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zz_zz_zz_zz_zz_zneed to change my nick as elitebnc changes it when away17:06
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tjonesarnaud was working with tflower on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/128691/14  will you take over that task too?17:08
sabari@tjones: gary is currently working on it17:08
tjoneswe need some more detail.  I was hoping for this to be approved by k-1 which is 12/1817:08
tjonesah ok17:09
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tjonesno gary here today.  there was confusion on when this meeting is - i guess it's not clear yet17:09
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tjonessabari: are there any nova tasks you have taken over?17:10
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sabariso far no17:10
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tjonesok so without rado, gary, dims we don't have a quorum17:11
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sabari@tjones I thought you were talking about fixing multiple disk support in nova. Which gary is working on.17:12
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sabarithis one is new I think17:12
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tjonesyes this is a new one17:13
sabariI haven't seen it before.17:13
tjonesyes this is supporting multi-disk ova17:13
sabariokay let me ping tflower17:13
tjonesok thanks17:14
tjonesdims: works with him17:14
sabarifine do you want to check again at UTC 18:00 ?17:14
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tjonesno im going to end the meeting and send email out17:14
sabariok17:14
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tjonessee ya17:15
tjones#endmeeting17:15
sabariyup17:15
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:15
openstackMeeting ended Wed Dec  3 17:15:08 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:15
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2014/vmwareapi.2014-12-03-17.00.html17:15
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2014/vmwareapi.2014-12-03-17.00.txt17:15
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garykvmware ,eeting/17:20
tjoneshi17:20
tjonesi ended it17:20
tjonesonly sabari was here17:20
garykyikes. sorry for joining late - thought it was at the end of the hour?17:20
tjonesno it is 17:00 UTC17:21
garykok, my bad17:21
tjonesno worries rado is not here either17:21
tjonesnor any of our other buddies17:21
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tjonesso hurrah about spbm!17:22
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nikesh_vedams_how can i register nova blueprint18:11
nikesh_vedams_sorry18:12
nikesh_vedams_wrong channel18:12
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asalkeld#startmeeting heat20:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Dec  3 20:00:22 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is asalkeld. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)"20:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'heat'20:00
asalkeld#topic rollcall20:00
*** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: heat)"20:00
zanebo/20:00
skraynev_o/20:00
shardyo/20:00
stevebaker\o20:00
pas-hao/20:00
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tspatzierhi20:00
ryansbhi folks20:00
inc0o/20:01
jpeelerhey20:01
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asalkeldwhilst we are waiting for others, lets think of some topics20:02
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inc0I have one:) Status of zero downtime upgrades20:02
asalkeld#topic Adding items to the agenda20:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Adding items to the agenda (Meeting topic: heat)"20:02
asalkeldok20:02
shardyasalkeld: I have one, Grenade testing20:02
stevebakerkilo-1 status20:02
shardylooking for a volunteer to push that forward20:02
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ryansbalso kilo-1 exceptions20:03
shardyryansb: exceptions?20:04
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asalkeldi thought that was for ff20:04
skraynev_shardy: you mean grenade job or what?20:04
stevebakerryansb: I don't think we do that for milestones, its just a snapshot20:04
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asalkeldwhat about a quick summary of convergence20:04
shardyskraynev_: Yeah, I started a patch adding Heat to grenade testing, EmilienM then did some work on it, but it's still not ready/merged20:04
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ryansberr, I got wires crossed. Was thinking of 2014.2.120:05
shardyneed someone to take ownership of it, I never have time to look at it lately20:05
pas-hahttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/86978/20:05
ryansbscratch it20:05
asalkeldurm....20:05
skraynev_shardy: I may take a look ;)20:05
asalkeld#topic Review action items from last meeting20:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Review action items from last meeting (Meeting topic: heat)"20:05
pas-haskraynev, ^^^^^20:05
shardyryansb: Ah, yeah I think we landed all we needed for the stable freeze20:05
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asalkeld#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2014/heat.2014-11-26-12.00.html20:05
inc0I think last meeting ended early due to thanksgiving...is there anything to review?20:06
asalkelddid this happen "Convergence folks to organise call/hangout to define direction re various PoC efforts"20:06
shardyskraynev_: thanks, lets action you when we get to that item :)20:06
zanebasalkeld: it's organised for tomorrow20:06
inc0it did -> tomorrow at 9am east coast time20:06
skraynev_shardy: ok20:06
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asalkeldcool20:06
skraynev_pas-ha: thx20:06
asalkeldok, moving on20:07
asalkeld#topic Status of zero downtime upgrades20:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Status of zero downtime upgrades (Meeting topic: heat)"20:07
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asalkeldso this is waiting on the oslo versioned objects20:07
inc0so, do we have issues listed out? blueprints to implement/draft? bugs to fix?20:07
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asalkeldinc0, we have a bp20:07
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asalkeld#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/132157/20:08
pas-haand seems like nova versioned objects falls into that bucket too20:08
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inc0is that only issue we have? if that lands we'll be able to do upgrades?20:08
stevebakerasalkeld: can't we have zero downtime upgrades now as long as db schema changes are backwards compatible?20:08
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asalkeldstevebaker, yeah20:09
inc0is it always?20:09
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asalkeldtho' i doubt that is normally the case20:09
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asalkeldso can a heat-engine talk to an old db20:09
asalkeldinc0, i could start with just coping the versioned objects code in tree20:10
asalkeldthere in not much code20:10
asalkeldand then swith over when we have it in oslo20:10
asalkeldso it's not holding us back20:11
stevebakerthats a bit risky20:11
asalkeldstevebaker, why?20:11
asalkeldi don't believe it's going to change20:11
stevebakerthe api might change as it moves to oslo20:11
skraynev_asalkeld: can we wjust wait this functional from oslo?20:11
skraynev_s/wjust/just20:12
asalkeldwe can wait, but i am not sure if it would make it in kilo20:12
shardystevebaker: Sometimes the API changes when it moves out of incubator anyway, so I don't see that as a huge barrier20:12
asalkeldwhich would be disapointing to me20:12
skraynev_asalkeld: got it. Agree, will be nice to have it in kilo20:13
asalkeldok, moving on20:13
shardyasalkeld: what's holding it up landing in oslo?20:13
asalkeld#topic Grenade testing20:13
*** openstack changes topic to "Grenade testing (Meeting topic: heat)"20:13
stevebakerok, I wouldn't block it in the short term20:13
asalkeldshardy, spec approval + code landing20:13
shardyOk, so here's the patch I started a while back:20:13
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shardyhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/86978/20:13
shardy#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/86978/20:14
stevebakershardy: vaguely related, do you have a working local instack?20:14
shardyEmilienM: helped get it working, now it's broken again, and I never seem to have time to look at it20:14
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shardyskraynev_: if you have time to help that would be great20:15
EmilienMshardy: I should have a look if you want20:15
asalkeldshardy, is the setup tricky?20:15
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EmilienMs/should/could/20:15
shardywe need to land initial grenade support, then define javelin stuff so we can actually test persisting stacks over upgrade20:15
shardyOh hey EmilienM, yeah if you have time to revisit it that would be great too20:15
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asalkeldshardy, does that test a rolling upgrade?20:16
skraynev_shardy: sure, I'd interesting in it.20:16
EmilienMshardy: I can manage to have time. I don't want to abandon something I helped a bit20:16
zanebasalkeld: aiui grenade tests a stop-start upgrade20:16
shardyEmilienM: could you work with skraynev_ and somehow divide the work of defining what's tested and implementing it?20:16
stevebakerasalkeld: looks like it kills heat, db upgrades, then starts heat again20:16
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EmilienMshardy: sure.20:16
shardyEmilienM: Ok, great, thanks20:16
asalkeld#action skraynev take over https://review.openstack.org/#/c/86978/20:16
asalkeldok20:16
stevebakerthanks skraynev_20:17
shardystevebaker: I don't have instack locally atm20:17
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stevebakerk20:17
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asalkeldok, anything more on this?20:17
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shardyasalkeld: Last time I tried setup was very tricky, but that may have improved20:17
shardyasalkeld: not from me, thanks20:18
asalkeldok20:18
asalkeld#topic kilo-1 status20:18
*** openstack changes topic to "kilo-1 status (Meeting topic: heat)"20:18
skraynev_EmilienM: I suggest connect via email ;) because near of midnight for me. So I start looking tomorrow.20:18
asalkeld#link https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/kilo-120:18
EmilienMskraynev_:  emilien@redhat.com20:18
asalkeldthere are a couple of bp i am not sure of the status there20:18
skraynev_EmilienM: k20:19
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asalkeldany one know multi region status?20:19
stevebakershouldn't that be assigned to Qiming?20:19
asalkeldand " Templates outputs need to be lazy loaded"20:19
jpeelerworking on that ^20:20
tspatzierasalkeld: I think Qiming is working in the multi region one20:20
asalkeldok, i'll update the bp20:20
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tspatzierasalkeld: IIRC, stevebaker had some good comments so Qiming is working on an update20:20
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asalkeldok as long as it is moving forward20:21
asalkeldi have taken shardy decouple stack bp20:21
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asalkeldwe need to focus on reviewing bugs/bps on that list20:21
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asalkeldto make sure they land20:22
shardyasalkeld: I rebased decouple-nested, and fixed the first test failure today, help with the remaining tests would be great, thanks!20:22
asalkeldi might kick this back to k2:https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/131981320:22
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1319813 in heat "no event recorded for INIT_* resources" [Medium,Triaged]20:22
asalkeldthx, shardy20:22
asalkeldzaneb, ^20:23
asalkeldyou set it to k120:23
zanebthat isn't even a bug20:23
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zanebbut it will probably happen as part of convergence anyway20:23
asalkeldto 'fix' it looks like a non-trivial amount of work to me20:23
zanebnot that it will change anything20:23
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asalkeldmoved it to k220:24
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asalkeldanyone know if jpeeler is working on the lazy loading code?20:24
jpeelerasalkeld: yes i am20:24
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asalkeldok, you think it can land in k1?20:25
jpeeleri do20:25
asalkeldcool20:25
* zaneb should check the review again20:25
jpeelerzaneb: nothing yet, will let you know20:25
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zaneboh good :)20:25
asalkeldwell i think we are in good shape then20:25
zanebI hate when I'm holding everything up20:25
asalkeldare you?20:26
zanebsometimes20:26
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asalkeldwell half time bell20:26
asalkeldand we are out of topics20:26
shardyhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/138800/20:26
shardyheads-up we need to land that (or a sample conf sync) to unblock our gate20:27
shardyoslo.messaging released this afternoon20:27
stevebakerthat needs devstack changes first, devstack starts with heat.conf.sample20:27
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asalkeldo - i quite like having  a sample in tree to point people to20:28
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shardystevebaker: Hmm, OK, I'll propose a sync and mark that WIP while we work that out20:28
shardyasalkeld: It's constantly breaking us20:28
zanebother projects are ditching it though I think20:28
stevebakerI thought I made that comment in one of the other delete heat.conf.sample patches20:28
asalkeldnot *that* often20:28
* shardy shrugs20:29
asalkeldshrug, seem we dont' have much of a choice20:29
pas-hashardy - looks like some change must be made to devstack first20:29
shardywell I find it annoying anyway20:29
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shardypas-ha: Yeah20:29
pas-hait tries to stat the heat.conf.sample20:29
shardystevebaker: evidently I missed those, apologies20:29
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stevebakershardy: there is a tox env to generate a sample, devstack can call that instead20:30
asalkeldzaneb, you and inc0 want to fill us in on the convergence status20:30
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inc0well, we've spoke with HP guys today, and agreed to meet up tomorrow20:30
shardystevebaker: Yeah, I'm just thinking of the immediate step to un-break things20:30
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* shardy waited 6 weeks to land his last devstack patch20:30
asalkeld#topic open discussion20:30
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)"20:30
stevebakershardy: maybe just this would be fine for now https://review.openstack.org/#/c/138800/2/tox.ini20:31
inc0from my point of view: I hope I've answered questions from mailing list...now I think we just need to decide on approach20:31
zanebI think we are close to settling on an approach20:31
shardystevebaker: Ok, I'll break it into two patches, thanks20:31
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zanebjust figuring out the last differences in how to store the graph efficiently20:31
asalkeldok20:32
inc0zaneb, so you've already dropped out my approach?20:32
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inc0:/20:32
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asalkeldinc0, have you worked on it more?20:32
zanebinc0: I... haven't changed my mind since my email last week20:32
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asalkelddoes it fill the gaps that zaneb pointed out20:33
zanebI haven't seen any new patches as of yesterday20:33
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inc0I didn't really have time for coding unfortunately, but I hope I clarified that on email?20:33
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zaneband I don't really want to wait another month to just come up with something equivalent to what we already have20:33
inc0zaneb, it will never be equivalent because well..its different20:34
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zanebwhat would change my mind at this point is a demonstration that phase 2 won't work with the other approaches20:34
asalkeldinc0, i think the problem we have with that approach is that there are some nagging questions that remain unanswered20:34
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inc0asalkeld, ask then;)20:34
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asalkeldthe rescheduling20:35
inc0zaneb, have you guys solved things like concurrent update?20:35
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inc0asalkeld, what do you mean by rescheduling?20:35
zanebinc0: yeah. that is pretty much the entire point.20:35
asalkeldwhen to re-call converge()20:35
asalkeldand it's effect on the remaining actions20:35
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inc0asalkeld, it doesn't matter, at first we can do call every few seconds20:36
asalkeldalso the db load20:36
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inc0I'm pretty sure db load can be dropped to n*logn and it can be heavily optimized by queries20:36
inc0its hard to do optimization on dummy db...20:36
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asalkeldinc0, agree20:37
shardystevebaker: https://review.openstack.org/13885020:37
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inc0for first version I was tinking of calling converge every few seconds20:37
zanebwell, it's easy to see what does lots of db calls and what doesn't20:37
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inc0or when resource state change20:37
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inc0zaneb, when you have things like joins, index lookups and so on you can optimize that20:38
inc0also my initial mistake of using name as unique key took its toll20:38
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stevebakershardy: +2, waiting for gate pass20:38
asalkeldi guess i am in favour of something at least somewhat logically proven - compared to an arguement20:38
zanebasalkeld: +120:39
shardystevebaker: thanks, I'll look at the devstack fix for the next patch now20:39
inc0well, it does solve test cases;)20:39
zanebwe all agree that this stuff can _probably_ be solved given enough time20:39
asalkeldinc0, dont' get me wrong: i like what you have done20:39
inc0I mean I'm not mentally bound to this one, but it does seem to solve biggest space of problems20:39
zanebwhy would we take 90% chance of a solution in a month over 99% change of a solution right now?20:39
stevebakerspeaking of which, porting the test cases to functional tests now would benefit all approaches, and would be hugely useful20:39
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asalkeldstevebaker, +120:40
inc0zaneb, because it solves concurency problems20:40
inc0in an elegant, non-hacky way20:40
asalkeldstevebaker, i might have to do that iwth shardy's decouple patches20:40
inc0concurrent updates I mean20:40
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inc0or this stuff https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/126016720:41
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1260167 in heat "heat autoscale scale up does not work if delete one instance manually " [Medium,Confirmed]20:41
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asalkeldso inc0 that is really phase 2 right?20:41
inc0I mean it all can be solved by graph approach...but these problems simply won't happen20:41
asalkeldhaving a 'check'20:41
inc0with my approach20:41
asalkeldand that should be solved20:42
zanebinc0: it really doesn't. to the extent that the other approaches have a problem with concurrent updates (which is only when something is in mid-update and we don't know what to do), yours has exactly the same problem afaict20:42
inc0well it doesn't have notion of mid-upgrade20:42
inc0so I don't think that would be problem at all20:43
zaneband yet the real world does, with existing plugins20:43
asalkeldyeah, there will be tasks working that you won't know what to do with20:43
stevebakershardy: we have a regression in the functional tests http://logs.openstack.org/19/138819/1/check/check-heat-dsvm-functional-mysql/e9d51bc/console.html#_2014-12-03_19_10_38_80220:43
stevebakershardy: I think Qiming raised a bug, let me find it20:44
inc0zaneb, we can simulate in_progress, but not build on it20:44
inc0I mean in progress == actions left to perform20:44
asalkeldshardy, i can look at that20:44
asalkeldstevebaker, i mean20:44
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stevebakerasalkeld: ok, lets make that job voting as soon as its fixed20:45
asalkeldtotally20:45
inc0still, we can work on graph approach, no problem with me20:45
shardystevebaker: interesting, great to see real issues getting caught :)20:45
inc0it may give us something faster20:45
inc0and we may learn more in the process20:46
stevebakershardy: although I recall Qiming commenting that the test might need fixing, not the code20:46
asalkeldstevebaker, i'll raise a bug for it20:46
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stevebakerhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/139794520:47
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1397945 in heat "resource group fails validate a template resource type" [Undecided,New]20:47
stevebakerfound it!20:47
inc0I just hope we won't get ourselves into some hack-loop with concurrent stuff20:47
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stevebakerI'll mark it critical, since it breaks the gate job20:47
asalkeld#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/139897320:48
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1398973 in heat "test_stack_update_provider_group integration test is failing" [Undecided,New]20:48
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shardystevebaker: Possibly, I saw his bug but could not reproduce locally20:48
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stevebakershardy: so running heat_integrationtests.functional.test_update didn't reproduce? maybe its a race20:49
inc0anyway, whichever approach we take, I prefere to start implementing than arguing about PoC20:50
inc0s20:50
asalkeldinc0, agree20:50
asalkeldwe need to get cracking on this20:50
asalkeldwe really don't want to land this to late (like right before release)20:51
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inc0we can get back to this discussion at phase 220:51
inc0when we won't have fire in our house20:52
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asalkeldstevebaker, we have bugs for templest20:52
asalkeldand we have a spec for functional tests20:53
asalkelddo we need both?20:53
zanebinc0: what makes you think the pressure ever lets up? ;)20:53
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inc0zaneb, I know it never is, thats why I'll be secretly preparing one big stateless fire extinguisher;)20:53
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stevebakerasalkeld: we need to rename all those tempest tags, maybe to 'functional'. They could stay as wishlist bugs though.20:54
asalkeldok20:54
asalkeldi'd like to target some to k220:55
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asalkeldand get people commited to them20:55
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asalkeld5mins20:55
stevebakerasalkeld: things have likely moved on a bit since then. I'd much rather see functional tests for native resources than the AWS ones20:55
inc0asalkeld, any chances we could talk tomorrow about getting few actions drafted to start working on upgrades?20:55
asalkeldsure inc020:56
asalkeldi'd love to progress that20:56
inc0I'll bug you about that tomorrow then (for you it will be later today;))20:56
asalkeldk20:56
inc0o/20:57
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asalkeldi'll end this 2 early then20:57
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asalkeld#endmeeting20:57
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:57
openstackMeeting ended Wed Dec  3 20:57:47 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:57
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2014/heat.2014-12-03-20.00.html20:57
skraynev_thx all, g'night20:57
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asalkeldthanks all20:57
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openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2014/heat.2014-12-03-20.00.txt20:57
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openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2014/heat.2014-12-03-20.00.log.html20:57
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