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| loquacities | heya, anyone here for the docs meeting? | 03:00 |
|---|---|---|
| asettle | yo | 03:01 |
| loquacities | heya | 03:01 |
| loquacities | just you and me? ;) | 03:01 |
| asettle | Need second coffee for this meeting | 03:01 |
| asettle | Wait. Right. Here | 03:01 |
| loquacities | k | 03:01 |
| asettle | loquacities, it's a party | 03:01 |
| loquacities | i'm not starting unless we get a quorum | 03:01 |
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| JRobinson__ | There's a few things to talk about on the agenda, and from the mailing list | 03:02 |
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| Sam-I-Am | hi | 03:02 |
| darrenc | hi | 03:02 |
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| Sam-I-Am | did you guys start the bot? | 03:03 |
| JRobinson__ | we were waiting for quorum | 03:03 |
| loquacities | i was kinda waiting for someone *not* on my team ;) | 03:03 |
| Sam-I-Am | ahh right | 03:04 |
| loquacities | :P | 03:04 |
| loquacities | no red hatters around? | 03:04 |
| loquacities | deepti doesn't seem to be in the other chan | 03:05 |
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| asettle | Y oyo | 03:05 |
| asettle | Back | 03:05 |
| asettle | Umm | 03:05 |
| loquacities | asettle: no quorum | 03:05 |
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| asettle | I forget who's in OpenStack for RH now. MOst of them got moved with the 'big changes' | 03:06 |
| asettle | *cough* | 03:06 |
| loquacities | yeah | 03:06 |
| Sam-I-Am | these meetings have been kind of weak for several months now | 03:06 |
| Sam-I-Am | not sure what happened | 03:06 |
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| asettle | Well, it's an Au meeting, yeah? | 03:06 |
| loquacities | Sam-I-Am: red hat content services reshuffled, and now it's rackspace writers only in australia | 03:06 |
| asettle | loquacities, I was thinking about this, we need to get back in retouch with RH | 03:07 |
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| loquacities | yeah, i agree | 03:07 |
| asettle | I'll ping the guys in our social channel and ask who I'm meant to be talking to right now | 03:07 |
| loquacities | any idea if deepti is going to LCA? | 03:07 |
| asettle | BRB | 03:07 |
| Sam-I-Am | so .. people like summer long? | 03:07 |
| loquacities | i don't think summer is on openstack any more | 03:07 |
| Sam-I-Am | havent seen her in eons | 03:07 |
| asettle | Sam-I-Am, don't know if Summer is on OS anymore | 03:07 |
| loquacities | deepti is supposed to be the openstack community docs person | 03:07 |
| loquacities | at least, last i heard | 03:07 |
| Sam-I-Am | there were a few others | 03:07 |
| asettle | Asking now, ten seconds. I think we also need to be talking with Zac Dover | 03:08 |
| asettle | And Andrew Dahms | 03:08 |
| Sam-I-Am | anne pointed me in deepti's direction for something not too long ago | 03:08 |
| loquacities | zac's on openstack? | 03:08 |
| asettle | Zac is on *literally* evrything | 03:08 |
| loquacities | *blink* | 03:08 |
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| asettle | Dude, as if you didn't see that coming | 03:08 |
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| loquacities | *sigh* | 03:09 |
| loquacities | yeah, fair call | 03:09 |
| Sam-I-Am | kind of interesting that we dont see anyone from other companies with openstack products such as hp, mirantis, etc. | 03:09 |
| Sam-I-Am | i know hp contributes to docs. | 03:09 |
| loquacities | no australians on staff? | 03:09 |
| asettle | Well, how highly publicized is this channel? | 03:09 |
| loquacities | hp don't have australian docs people | 03:09 |
| Sam-I-Am | loquacities: any of the docs meetings | 03:09 |
| Sam-I-Am | the US one is empty too | 03:09 |
| loquacities | oh, really? | 03:09 |
| loquacities | maybe anne and i need to put our heads together, then | 03:10 |
| asettle | Waiting on a response from Zac and Martin | 03:10 |
| Sam-I-Am | not sure if people don't know, don't care, or if this has anything to do with the general fall-off of contributors. | 03:10 |
| asettle | Stay tuned | 03:10 |
| asettle | Deepti is on leave, confirmed | 03:13 |
| loquacities | ah | 03:13 |
| asettle | I'll keep you updated till I find out who else is around | 03:14 |
| loquacities | any idea if she'll be at LCA? | 03:15 |
| asettle | loquacities, we need to get in contact with Andrew Dahms, he's the new 'in charge' dude. | 03:15 |
| asettle | You met him | 03:15 |
| asettle | Great guy | 03:15 |
| loquacities | i don't recall | 03:15 |
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| asettle | loquacities, he's been in our meetings :) you'd recognise facially | 03:15 |
| loquacities | can you send me his email address? | 03:15 |
| asettle | I'll grab his email for you and we can start talking with him further | 03:15 |
| asettle | HA | 03:16 |
| asettle | I know you | 03:16 |
| loquacities | :) | 03:16 |
| loquacities | ok guys, that's 15 mins, it's a no go | 03:16 |
| Sam-I-Am | sigh | 03:16 |
| asettle | loquacities, I'll PM you his email address | 03:16 |
| loquacities | ta | 03:17 |
| asettle | Okay, thanks loquacities :0 | 03:17 |
| asettle | :) 8 | 03:17 |
| asettle | I got a coffee and e verything | 03:17 |
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| asalkeld | #startmeeting heat | 12:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jan 7 12:00:10 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is asalkeld. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 12:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 12:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)" | 12:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'heat' | 12:00 |
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| asalkeld | #topic rollcall | 12:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: heat)" | 12:00 | |
| tspatzier | hi all | 12:00 |
| ryansb | \o | 12:00 |
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| asalkeld | might be quiet | 12:01 |
| zaneb | hello peeps | 12:01 |
| ryansb | might make unanimous votes easy ;) | 12:01 |
| asalkeld | hi zane | 12:01 |
| asalkeld | har | 12:02 |
| * zaneb finally makes it to one of these 7am meetings | 12:02 | |
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| asalkeld | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/HeatAgenda | 12:02 |
| asalkeld | let's wait a little | 12:02 |
| asalkeld | see if any more folks pitch | 12:03 |
| asalkeld | mean time thing of agenda | 12:03 |
| asalkeld | #topic new agenda items | 12:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "new agenda items (Meeting topic: heat)" | 12:04 | |
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| asalkeld | hi ckmvishnu unmeshg | 12:05 |
| asalkeld | and ananta | 12:05 |
| ananta | Hi asalkeld | 12:05 |
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| ckmvishnu | Hi asalkeld | 12:05 |
| asalkeld | well lets progress | 12:05 |
| unmeshg | hi | 12:06 |
| zaneb | hey guys, happy new year :) | 12:06 |
| asalkeld | #topic kilo-2 | 12:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "kilo-2 (Meeting topic: heat)" | 12:06 | |
| asalkeld | #link https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/kilo-2 | 12:06 |
| asalkeld | so ttx says we should have our bp sorted by the end of the week | 12:06 |
| asalkeld | (for k2) | 12:07 |
| asalkeld | so let's review and approve what looks like it can make it | 12:07 |
| asalkeld | shardy suggested doing some priority setting :-O | 12:07 |
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| asalkeld | speak of the devil :) | 12:08 |
| shardy | sorry, got held up.. | 12:08 |
| asalkeld | shardy suggested doing some priority setting :-O | 12:08 |
| *** avozza is now known as zz_avozza | 12:08 | |
| shardy | Yea, seems like we have a lot of stuff in-flight and/or proposed for k2 | 12:08 |
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| asalkeld | well i set k2 to things with patches up | 12:09 |
| asalkeld | (bugs in progress) | 12:09 |
| asalkeld | can change them later | 12:09 |
| asalkeld | but the bp's are more important | 12:09 |
| asalkeld | to set priorites | 12:09 |
| asalkeld | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/barbican-as-secret-backend | 12:10 |
| asalkeld | not sure where that one is | 12:10 |
| asalkeld | therve ... | 12:10 |
| shardy | he's not here, I guess we can ping him in #heat after | 12:11 |
| asalkeld | ok | 12:11 |
| asalkeld | there is also the stack-tags bp (not approved) | 12:11 |
| asalkeld | and the external resource thing | 12:11 |
| asalkeld | but i can focus on the decouple-nested | 12:12 |
| shardy | asalkeld: can you clarify, do we have to fix the adopt code to safely enable the external resource (with multi-step adopt..) feature? | 12:12 |
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| shardy | Originally it was an immutable external reference, but I see now you can do a series of updates to, effectively, adopt things | 12:13 |
| asalkeld | shardy: how do you think it needs fixing? | 12:13 |
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| shardy | asalkeld: the various adopt bugs related to validation | 12:13 |
| asalkeld | shardy: we do a check() at the time we take the resource | 12:13 |
| shardy | Aha, and if that fails, we fail? | 12:14 |
| asalkeld | to me that will say that it exists and the user can access it | 12:14 |
| asalkeld | yeah | 12:14 |
| shardy | Ok, sounds good, thanks | 12:14 |
| asalkeld | tho' dependant on check() been implementde | 12:14 |
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| asalkeld | hi therve | 12:14 |
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| therve | Hi, sorry for being late | 12:15 |
| asalkeld | therve: where is your barbican bp? | 12:15 |
| asalkeld | good for k2 or k3 | 12:15 |
| asalkeld | i have set it to k2, but can change it | 12:15 |
| asalkeld | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/barbican-as-secret-backend | 12:15 |
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| therve | I have a spike somewhere, but not progressing much | 12:16 |
| therve | k3 sounds more reasonable | 12:16 |
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| asalkeld | ok | 12:16 |
| asalkeld | changed | 12:16 |
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| asalkeld | shardy: any other things you wanted to cover? | 12:17 |
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| asalkeld | it would be great to have some convergence bp there | 12:17 |
| shardy | asalkeld: No, looks good, from the review and spec backlog, I thought there would be more BPs to cover.. | 12:18 |
| shardy | it's going to be another giant M3 isn't it? | 12:18 |
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| asalkeld | zaneb: ananta ^ | 12:18 |
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| asalkeld | any thing we can do now to help out | 12:18 |
| ananta | hi zane | 12:18 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: not right now, but I hope soon | 12:18 |
| zaneb | actually there is one thing | 12:19 |
| ananta | we came after the vacation and I am looking for discussion | 12:19 |
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| asalkeld | ananta: sure | 12:20 |
| zaneb | add a field to the Stack table to specify ld-style vs. new style stacks and a config option for creating new ones in the new style | 12:20 |
| zaneb | (won't do anything yet, obvs) | 12:20 |
| zaneb | but that is step 0 | 12:20 |
| asalkeld | ld-style? | 12:20 |
| zaneb | old-style | 12:20 |
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| asalkeld | old? | 12:20 |
| zaneb | typo, sorry | 12:20 |
| shardy | zaneb: are we yet in a position to start raising BPs for the various specs and getting folks implementing them? | 12:20 |
| shardy | s/specs/steps | 12:21 |
| zaneb | not yet | 12:21 |
| shardy | but specs too, I guess ;) | 12:21 |
| zaneb | I think we have a separate agenda item to go over this? | 12:21 |
| asalkeld | ok, well the next 2 agenda items might help | 12:21 |
| shardy | zaneb: Ok, I guess I'm wondering how realistic landing this for Kilo is, if we're nearly at M2 and the tasks aren't specified yet | 12:22 |
| asalkeld | (yeah, lets move on) | 12:22 |
| asalkeld | #topic midcycle meetup | 12:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "midcycle meetup (Meeting topic: heat)" | 12:22 | |
| zaneb | shardy: yes, it's a worry | 12:22 |
| shardy | (no criticism, I know it's a hard problem) | 12:22 |
| asalkeld | Planing the midcycle meetup online (brought forward from last time) | 12:22 |
| asalkeld | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-heat-midcycle-meetup | 12:22 |
| asalkeld | maybe we can get this moved on in the meetup | 12:23 |
| asalkeld | any ideas on how to do an online meetup? | 12:23 |
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| asalkeld | come up with some topics, and choose times and software | 12:24 |
| asalkeld | tumble weeds .... | 12:24 |
| shardy | asalkeld: agree, get an agenda with topics, then figure out tz's so the key folks can attend | 12:24 |
| tspatzier | I guess agenda and some time slots for topic make sense, so people know when to dial in | 12:25 |
| asalkeld | anyone keen to plan this? | 12:25 |
| asalkeld | (or i can) | 12:25 |
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| tspatzier | ML for collecting topic? | 12:25 |
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| asalkeld | ok, lets start with topics | 12:25 |
| shardy | +1 | 12:25 |
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| asalkeld | convergence | 12:25 |
| asalkeld | <eof> | 12:26 |
| zaneb | lol | 12:26 |
| shardy | lol | 12:26 |
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| asalkeld | now on the really hard part getting people to choose video software | 12:26 |
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| ryansb | I don't recall there being gripes about Skype | 12:27 |
| ryansb | I do recall gripes about hangouts | 12:27 |
| asalkeld | +1 | 12:27 |
| ryansb | soooo Skype? | 12:27 |
| ananta | convergence has to be broken into many to have any effective discussion | 12:27 |
| ananta | Hangout | 12:27 |
| asalkeld | ananta: i was being a bit tounge in cheek there | 12:27 |
| * zaneb was the chief griper about hangouts | 12:28 | |
| ananta | i am fine with skype though i had last time with zane | 12:28 |
| asalkeld | sure we can come up with a better agenda | 12:28 |
| zaneb | Skype is fine when it works... which is not as often as you would hope | 12:28 |
| ananta | asalkeld: sure | 12:28 |
| tspatzier | hangout burns all of my cores on the Mac -> so I am in favour of skype | 12:28 |
| asalkeld | ananta: just edit that etherpad | 12:28 |
| shardy | Ultimately we can fall back to a conference call if needed | 12:28 |
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| zaneb | tbh I'm not sure that video is really required here | 12:28 |
| asalkeld | shardy: yeah just shut down the video | 12:29 |
| zaneb | audio + maybe screen sharing seems more helpful | 12:29 |
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| shardy | We don't *have* to look at each other to talk :) | 12:29 |
| tspatzier | zaneb: +1 | 12:29 |
| asalkeld | +1 | 12:29 |
| ananta | +1 | 12:29 |
| unmeshg | +1 | 12:29 |
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| asalkeld | ananta: / zaneb you want to break the convergence topics up a bit | 12:30 |
| asalkeld | and maybe max 1 hour a day? | 12:30 |
| asalkeld | or longer? | 12:30 |
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| ananta | asalkeld: sure we can break | 12:30 |
| ryansb | probably 2 1-hour or 45-min sessions is a sweet spot | 12:31 |
| ananta | 1 hour looks good after for smaller topics | 12:31 |
| asalkeld | ryansb: ok, we can trial differient things | 12:31 |
| asalkeld | ryansb: can you put some thoughts about format on the etherpad? | 12:31 |
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| ryansb | sure | 12:32 |
| asalkeld | cool | 12:32 |
| shardy | Ok, dumb question alert, can someone summarise the key advantage of the convergence model for scalability, vs just decoupling per-stack via RPC? | 12:33 |
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| asalkeld | shardy: big stacks | 12:33 |
| shardy | Given all the effort going into this, I just wanted a reminder/refocus of why | 12:33 |
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| shardy | asalkeld: the main use-case for that IIRC was TripleO, which is now moving to lots of small stacks.. | 12:33 |
| asalkeld | lol | 12:33 |
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| shardy | hence my question ;) | 12:33 |
| asalkeld | ok let's just ditch it :-O (joke) | 12:34 |
| asalkeld | but good question | 12:34 |
| asalkeld | lets focus on getting decouple-nested in | 12:34 |
| asalkeld | and test | 12:34 |
| asalkeld | while people work on convergence | 12:34 |
| asalkeld | ? | 12:34 |
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| shardy | I'm playing devils advocate a bit here, I just want to focus on the use-case, e.g who actually needs this | 12:34 |
| ananta | convergence is not just scalability | 12:35 |
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| asalkeld | well the continouse observer thing | 12:35 |
| shardy | asalkeld: Yeah, I guess I'm wondering if decouple-nested is a sufficient scalability stop-gap for Kilo, if we fail to get Convergence in | 12:35 |
| zaneb | I think it's recognised that phase 2 is the bigger win | 12:35 |
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| zaneb | but we need to do phase 1 to get to phase 2, and it does have some benefits of its own | 12:35 |
| asalkeld | shardy: it might be a stop gap | 12:36 |
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| ananta | in phase 1 atleast we fix the issues we hit with backup stack etc and form the basis for phase 2 | 12:36 |
| ananta | and heat engine restart? | 12:36 |
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| shardy | ananta: aha, yes that's a good one, resiliency to heat-engine dying | 12:37 |
| shardy | thanks | 12:37 |
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| zaneb | yeah, there are many potential latent issues with the backup stack that phase 1 fixes | 12:37 |
| asalkeld | ananta: yeah lots of semi related things that need fixing are getting fixed | 12:37 |
| zaneb | and this architecture will make the whole thing more robust and scalable | 12:37 |
| ananta | asalkeld: yeah and sometimes i worry because of that we keep forgetting why we need convergence :) | 12:38 |
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| ananta | zaneb: +1 | 12:38 |
| asalkeld | ananta: it's always good to ask basic questions | 12:38 |
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| ananta | asalkeld: i agree | 12:38 |
| shardy | zaneb: I don't doubt that, I'm just trying to clarify the user-visible benefits, given the massive effort involved | 12:38 |
| asalkeld | and remind ourselves why we are doing this | 12:38 |
| * shardy is good at asking basic questions ;) | 12:38 | |
| asalkeld | lol | 12:39 |
| asalkeld | so would it help bringing the meetup earlier? | 12:39 |
| zaneb | shardy: in many ways the benefits are to us in the future, more than to users | 12:39 |
| asalkeld | so we can get on with this? | 12:39 |
| zaneb | shardy: but the backup stack stuff is a real problem waiting to happen | 12:39 |
| asalkeld | (like next week) | 12:39 |
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| shardy | zaneb: Ok, cool, so it can, if needed, become a more gradual rework, given the time-pressure re kilo? | 12:40 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: this = meetup or convergence? | 12:40 |
| asalkeld | given that's it's online, we can do this anytime | 12:40 |
| asalkeld | (meetup about convergence) | 12:40 |
| asalkeld | both | 12:40 |
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| asalkeld | well lets come up with the topics | 12:41 |
| asalkeld | see what needs talking about | 12:41 |
| zaneb | shardy: I think phase 1 needs to land completely and be enable-able in a specified release | 12:41 |
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| zaneb | I still hope that's kilo, at least for the brave | 12:41 |
| shardy | zaneb: heh, Ok, thanks | 12:42 |
| zaneb | but I am with you on the schedule concerns | 12:42 |
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| zaneb | I started looking at it again yesterday, and hope to make progress this week | 12:43 |
| asalkeld | zaneb: we can all focus on review/testing | 12:43 |
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| asalkeld | to help out, who ever is driving the coding needs to ask for help | 12:43 |
| asalkeld | lots of willing hands | 12:43 |
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| zaneb | yeah, we had lots of people volunteering to implement bps as well | 12:44 |
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| zaneb | but we need a plan first before we can set everyone loose | 12:44 |
| asalkeld | #topic convergence | 12:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "convergence (Meeting topic: heat)" | 12:44 | |
| asalkeld | (belated) | 12:44 |
| asalkeld | zaneb: totally | 12:45 |
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| asalkeld | so zaneb ananta you want to tell where you guys are? | 12:45 |
| ananta | zaneb: we should co-author the change we want to bring in the kilo | 12:45 |
| asalkeld | is the basic design agreed on? | 12:45 |
| zaneb | not yet | 12:45 |
| ckmvishnu | nope | 12:45 |
| zaneb | so I'll give an update of where I am at | 12:46 |
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| ananta | I was also looking at zane's poc and will give my update | 12:46 |
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| ananta | i do have a feeling that we are close to a design we want to but with some minor differences | 12:47 |
| zaneb | before Xmas ckmvishnu and co raised some valid issues with my design and how it fails to address how to serialise operations on individual resources when multiple update passes are happening simultaneously | 12:47 |
| zaneb | so I am looking at that this week, trying to come up with modifications that resolve that | 12:47 |
| asalkeld | ok | 12:48 |
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| zaneb | unfortunately that's something that is explicitly out of scope for my framework to test | 12:48 |
| zaneb | since it is event-driven rather than parallel | 12:48 |
| asalkeld | is that going to be a problem to test? | 12:49 |
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| asalkeld | half re-write the framework | 12:49 |
| asalkeld | to use real threads? | 12:49 |
| zaneb | so I'll be flying a little bit blind, but hopefully I can write some code that gives the general idea and can be reviewed, even if it's not really tested in the simulator | 12:49 |
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| zaneb | asalkeld: don't think I will have time, but I am not against somebody contributing that | 12:51 |
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| zaneb | both sorts of tests are interesting | 12:51 |
| asalkeld | ok | 12:51 |
| asalkeld | i'll see if i get some time - maybe skype you about some ideas to save time | 12:52 |
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| zaneb | 'k | 12:52 |
| asalkeld | zaneb: is your evening better (than now0 | 12:52 |
| zaneb | yes, lots of meetings in the mornings :( | 12:53 |
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| asalkeld | ga, this is the problem we are going to have with the online meetup | 12:53 |
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| asalkeld | i hope it's not me always in the moring | 12:53 |
| zaneb | hmm, actually no, today is the opposite | 12:53 |
| zaneb | now might be better | 12:53 |
| * asalkeld is not a morning person | 12:53 | |
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| * zaneb neither | 12:54 | |
| asalkeld | zaneb: after meeting? | 12:54 |
| zaneb | sure | 12:54 |
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| asalkeld | k | 12:54 |
| asalkeld | 5mins | 12:54 |
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| asalkeld | anything anyone wants to chip in? | 12:54 |
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| ryansb | where do we want to work on the agenda? Same etherpad, or a new one? | 12:55 |
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| ryansb | (meetup agenda) | 12:55 |
| asalkeld | ryansb: i think so | 12:55 |
| asalkeld | all in one place | 12:55 |
| ryansb | Sounds good to me | 12:56 |
| asalkeld | zaneb: ananta ckmvishnu : do we need to tidy the convergence specs up and resubmit? | 12:56 |
| asalkeld | or is that too early | 12:56 |
| zaneb | probably a bit early | 12:56 |
| asalkeld | ok | 12:56 |
| ananta | not yet...only after the we have common understanding of design | 12:56 |
| ckmvishnu | yeah, but needs to broken down | 12:57 |
| zaneb | but yeah, we will likely need to at some point | 12:57 |
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| asalkeld | k, makes sense | 12:57 |
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| asalkeld | ending a bit early ... | 12:57 |
| asalkeld | #endmeeting | 12:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 12:58 | |
| ryansb | thanks all | 12:58 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jan 7 12:58:04 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 12:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2015/heat.2015-01-07-12.00.html | 12:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2015/heat.2015-01-07-12.00.txt | 12:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2015/heat.2015-01-07-12.00.log.html | 12:58 |
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| TaoBai | Hello | 14:32 |
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| TaoBai | Test | 14:32 |
| TaoBai | test | 14:32 |
| TaoBai | test | 14:32 |
| TaoBai | This is test message | 14:32 |
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| omrim | Hello | 15:01 |
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| BobBall | #startmeeting XenAPI | 15:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jan 7 15:02:36 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is BobBall. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'xenapi' | 15:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | BobBall: howdy | 15:02 |
| BobBall | Howdy john | 15:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | good holidays? | 15:02 |
| BobBall | Indeed! very relaxing | 15:02 |
| BobBall | and felt a lot longer than 2 weeks. | 15:03 |
| BobBall | Yourself? | 15:03 |
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| johnthetubaguy | good stuff, a bit of running around between various groups of family, but generally quite relaxing too | 15:03 |
| BobBall | Yeah - but that's the normal way with Christmas! | 15:03 |
| BobBall | Well, happy new year to you and welcome back. | 15:03 |
| BobBall | I have to say I do find the new year a bit of a struggle sometimes. | 15:04 |
| BobBall | Two weeks off then right back in it! | 15:04 |
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| BobBall | OK - anyway - first topic I guess | 15:04 |
| BobBall | #topic CI | 15:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "CI (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:04 | |
| BobBall | Nothing much to say except it's working great | 15:04 |
| BobBall | Set up a monitor with RAX to warn when the pass rate falls low | 15:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | I guess there are less patches over the holidays, but thats cool | 15:04 |
| BobBall | initially the trigger was for 4 hours | 15:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, cool, does it email you, or something like that? | 15:05 |
| BobBall | which was really low... there were quite a lot of 4-hour periods with no patches and therefore no passes | 15:05 |
| BobBall | Yup. Intelligence.rackspace.com | 15:05 |
| BobBall | This rackspace cloud is quite good really | 15:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | :) | 15:05 |
| BobBall | Anyway - I've upped the limit now to 24 hours. | 15:05 |
| BobBall | It means we won't get notified that things are pear shaped until later | 15:05 |
| BobBall | but it does stop all of the incorrect notifications | 15:06 |
| BobBall | Might think if a middle ground (e.g. 12 hours) is better | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | could you not just look at a failure percentage? | 15:06 |
| BobBall | Correction - I'm at 12 hours | 15:06 |
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| BobBall | I do | 15:06 |
| BobBall | 50% or above failure rate is bad | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | hmm, OK | 15:07 |
| BobBall | I could drop that I suppose and have a large time | 15:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | nah, you need to know sooner rather than later | 15:07 |
| BobBall | but it wasn't clear how to do maths in the monitoring side :) | 15:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | just wondering if there is something cleverer | 15:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | but not to worry | 15:07 |
| BobBall | I meant drop the percentage failure rate - if you halved it to 25% then doubled the time in theory it'd tell you at the same time | 15:07 |
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| BobBall | Probably | 15:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, possibly | 15:08 |
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| BobBall | But the first iteration is qorking well enough as a big red bell | 15:08 |
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| BobBall | It did highlight one failure (the gerrit watch failed) that I fixed | 15:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, not waiting a few days is way better, so thats nice | 15:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | cools | 15:08 |
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| BobBall | Yup - more useful than coming in after a weekend of things going bad | 15:08 |
| BobBall | CI pass rates are worrying in general though | 15:09 |
| BobBall | I think I mentioned last year | 15:09 |
| BobBall | tempest.scenario.test_shelve_instance.TestShelveInstance.test_shelve_instance | 15:09 |
| BobBall | and friends | 15:09 |
| BobBall | seem to be getting more failures than they should | 15:09 |
| BobBall | so I think there has been some regressions in the code | 15:09 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, that sounds nasty | 15:10 |
| BobBall | Oh - actually failure rate hasn't been too bad the last couple of weeks | 15:10 |
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| johnthetubaguy | its odd its xenapi specific | 15:10 |
| BobBall | It was a pre-christmas thing perhaps | 15:10 |
| BobBall | Well not so much | 15:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | I guess shelves are busy at christmas | 15:10 |
| BobBall | we have some very different characteristics to other drivers | 15:10 |
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| BobBall | in terms of where things like race conditions in generic code hit us | 15:10 |
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| BobBall | Anyway, I'm not worried ATM | 15:11 |
| BobBall | Will just keep a watch on it, so it's more of a heads up in case you hear or something else clicks | 15:11 |
| BobBall | or perhaps someone submits a patch you notice that fixes it I'd like to know :) | 15:11 |
| BobBall | How are your efforts in getting some help with CI for quark going? | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | no where right now I fear | 15:12 |
| BobBall | OK - tis a shame | 15:12 |
| BobBall | but means we'll have to focus on Neutron + OVS | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | not been able to hire anyone | 15:12 |
| BobBall | The status of that is in limbo for a few weeks... | 15:13 |
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| BobBall | News on that at the end (although you may know all the news John - just for logging purposes) | 15:13 |
| BobBall | Anything you want to say on CI? | 15:13 |
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| johnthetubaguy | nothing on CI really | 15:14 |
| BobBall | okies. | 15:14 |
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| BobBall | #topic Bugs | 15:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:14 | |
| BobBall | Guess we've talked about a few of them already, but I wanted to talk about the coalescing bug... | 15:14 |
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| BobBall | That's but #1362595 | 15:14 |
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| BobBall | That's bug #1362595 | 15:15 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1362595 in nova "move_vhds_into_sr - invalid cookie" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1362595 | 15:15 |
| BobBall | thanks uvirtbot | 15:15 |
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| johnthetubaguy | OK | 15:15 |
| BobBall | I want a backport to icehouse... :) | 15:15 |
| BobBall | I needed to make an icehouse XVA and it was failing due to the coalesce issues | 15:15 |
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| BobBall | which I think are all self-contained really | 15:15 |
| BobBall | I've got some changes up for review | 15:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah OK | 15:16 |
| BobBall | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/142543/ | 15:16 |
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| BobBall | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/142700/ | 15:16 |
| BobBall | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/143109/ | 15:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | I am not core on stable I am afraid | 15:16 |
| BobBall | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/143110/ | 15:16 |
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| BobBall | No, not a core on stable of course, but your comments and hopefully support of the backports would be really helpful | 15:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | they tend to go for very low risk changes, do we have the XenServer CI pointed at those branches? | 15:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | I can certainly try give them a look at some point soon | 15:16 |
| BobBall | Good point - it didn't trigger. | 15:16 |
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| BobBall | Not sure what needs to be done to trigger on a stable branch | 15:17 |
| BobBall | I'll look at that | 15:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | I duno if it would work without having another image, but its worth a whirl I guess | 15:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | cools | 15:17 |
| BobBall | another image? | 15:17 |
| BobBall | oh | 15:17 |
| BobBall | I see | 15:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | more thinking about the dependencies, but it should be OK with any luck | 15:17 |
| BobBall | Yes, you're right | 15:18 |
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| BobBall | I doubt very much it would work | 15:18 |
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| BobBall | I can try though but there are a whole bunch of dependencies installed | 15:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, needs a try | 15:18 |
| BobBall | and I thought the dependencies for the two states are quite different | 15:18 |
| BobBall | particularly because icehouse was so long ago... | 15:18 |
| BobBall | Anyway - the results of including those bug fixes in a Citrix build is at http://downloads.vmd.citrix.com/OpenStack/ | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | oh, there were some stuff deprecated here and there, thinking about it | 15:19 |
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| BobBall | it's a devstack-icehouse XVA | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | hmm, interesting | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | its something for devs at least, which is nice | 15:19 |
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| BobBall | Aiming for an interesting demo at Citrix Summit. Which I don't want to talk about quite yet because I'm blocked on a third party currently so can't commit that it will be there :) | 15:20 |
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| BobBall | Just a shame it has to be icehouse based rather than Juno, but that's the way things go. | 15:20 |
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| BobBall | You can see from the above link that the devstack XVAs are also being updated regularly again | 15:20 |
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| BobBall | After an internal CI rebuild there was a lot of pain getting that back working | 15:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | why not juno? | 15:21 |
| BobBall | Third party dependency I'm afraid :) | 15:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | doh | 15:21 |
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| BobBall | It's for code that should be upstreamed at some point in Kilo, as far as I'm aware, but currently is only available on icehouse | 15:22 |
| BobBall | Anyway, that's that for bugs from me - kind of strayed into other territories | 15:22 |
| BobBall | Anything from you johnthetubaguy? | 15:22 |
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| johnthetubaguy | we are past the nova spec freeze now, but yeah | 15:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | nothing more from me | 15:23 |
| BobBall | Ah - I wonder if the spec got in... heh :) | 15:23 |
| BobBall | Okay, done with bugs then | 15:23 |
| BobBall | #topic AOB | 15:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "AOB (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:23 | |
| BobBall | You go first for AOB :) | 15:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | not really got anything, I am afraid | 15:24 |
| BobBall | That's fine | 15:24 |
| BobBall | Oh drat | 15:24 |
| BobBall | I had another bug to talk about... | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | doh, no worries, you got the number | 15:25 |
| BobBall | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack/2015-January/011063.html | 15:25 |
| BobBall | Thought you might have some thoughts on that John? | 15:25 |
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| BobBall | Last time I saw this it was Ubuntu install not being able to access the internet, but John says it can | 15:25 |
| BobBall | (different John!) | 15:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | hmm, not sure, looking | 15:27 |
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| johnthetubaguy | hmm, might be a different version of XenServer not sure | 15:27 |
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| johnthetubaguy | the XenServer 6.0 -> 6.1 changed the need for kpartx or something like that | 15:27 |
| BobBall | Oh - it did? | 15:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, it wasn't needed before a certain version of xenserver | 15:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | or v.v. | 15:28 |
| BobBall | Hmmmz | 15:28 |
| BobBall | so is your suggestion that he might be running on a very old XS? | 15:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | its possible | 15:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | or very new | 15:28 |
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| johnthetubaguy | there was a way we detected which thing to do | 15:29 |
| BobBall | We regularly test on the latest version | 15:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | should be fine then | 15:29 |
| BobBall | OK - I'll look at that. | 15:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | on that front | 15:29 |
| BobBall | I did tell him how to use the XVA and the JEOS to avoid the Ubuntu installation | 15:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK | 15:29 |
| BobBall | waiting to hear back from him on whether he's willing to continue trying to find the issue while he's up and running with the XVA/JEOS | 15:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | worth checking the XenServer version | 15:30 |
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| johnthetubaguy | it might be an error before that causing the real issue though | 15:30 |
| BobBall | True but I didn't see one in the partial log he sent | 15:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | network settings are a nightmare to get right for that stuff, I get it wrong at least three or four times before its working | 15:30 |
| BobBall | Should be easier now with the UBUNTU_INST_BRIDGE_OR_NET_NAME | 15:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, true | 15:31 |
| BobBall | Anyway, that's enough of that. | 15:31 |
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| BobBall | If you have any other thoughts on that I'd appreciate it though | 15:31 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, no idea really, but it does ring a very quiet bell | 15:31 |
| BobBall | Ok - AOB from you? | 15:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | nothing from me | 15:31 |
| BobBall | Ok, final thing then... | 15:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | sure | 15:32 |
| BobBall | Mate Lakat unfortunately left Citrix at the end of last year so won't be returning to help out with XenAPI | 15:32 |
| BobBall | We're trying to recruit backfills but until that happens we're low on resources | 15:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | oh, yes, he did mention that :( | 15:33 |
| BobBall | I'm not expecting Citrix to be able to achieve a huge amount in Nova this quarter with the resources we have until those backfills are on board | 15:33 |
| BobBall | Bug fixes, CI, etc all will continue of course | 15:34 |
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| johnthetubaguy | OK, understood | 15:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | most of the upstream effort on our side is cells right now | 15:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | with a whole bunch of stability work as normal | 15:35 |
| BobBall | *nod* makes sense | 15:35 |
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| BobBall | fair enough | 15:36 |
| BobBall | Anyway - I think that's it from me. | 15:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | and from me | 15:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | thanks | 15:37 |
| BobBall | As a suggestion I think we should skip next weeks' meeting and move to a fortnightly cadence | 15:37 |
| BobBall | thoughts? | 15:37 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yes, makes sense I think | 15:38 |
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| BobBall | Ok good | 15:39 |
| BobBall | #nextmeeting 21st January | 15:39 |
| BobBall | Does it know a #nextmeeting? | 15:40 |
| BobBall | No | 15:40 |
| BobBall | That sucks. | 15:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | info is probably the best | 15:40 |
| BobBall | #info Next meeting will be 21st January | 15:40 |
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| BobBall | Alright. | 15:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | cools | 15:40 |
| BobBall | Thanks John - close there. | 15:40 |
| BobBall | #endmeeting | 15:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:40 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jan 7 15:40:38 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:40 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2015/xenapi.2015-01-07-15.02.html | 15:40 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2015/xenapi.2015-01-07-15.02.txt | 15:40 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2015/xenapi.2015-01-07-15.02.log.html | 15:40 |
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| thingee | #startmeeting Cinder | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jan 7 16:00:01 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is thingee. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Cinder)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:00 |
| thingee | hi all | 16:00 |
| cknight | Hi | 16:00 |
| jungleboyj | Hello! | 16:00 |
| thangp | hi | 16:00 |
| deepakcs | hi all | 16:00 |
| smcginnis | Hi! | 16:00 |
| scottda | hi | 16:00 |
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| eharney | hi | 16:00 |
| bswartz | hi | 16:00 |
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| thingee | agenda items for today | 16:00 |
| thingee | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CinderMeetings | 16:00 |
| thingee | first off I wanted to point people to the new cinder review dashboard | 16:01 |
| thingee | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder#Review_Links | 16:01 |
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| thingee | click the Cinder review inbox link | 16:01 |
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| thingee | make sure you're logged in and enjoy more managable review list | 16:01 |
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| thingee | give me feedback on it at #openstack-cinder | 16:01 |
| thingee | also keep in mind of kilo-2 deadline https://launchpad.net/cinder/+milestone/kilo-2 | 16:02 |
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| thingee | february 5th. A lot of bps are not started. I will be bugging you for an update and potentially punting | 16:02 |
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| thingee | #topic What makes a unit test valid? | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "What makes a unit test valid? (Meeting topic: Cinder)" | 16:03 | |
| thingee | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/cinder/+bug/1404339 | 16:03 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1404339 in cinder "Unit tests for zfssa driver don't actually check anything" [Undecided,In progress] | 16:03 |
| thingee | jgriffith: you're up | 16:03 |
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| jgriffith | thingee: thanks | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | So I just wanted to touch on something real quick | 16:03 |
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| kaisers1 | hi | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | our unit tests need serious love | 16:03 |
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| jgriffith | the definition of a unit test is something that tests the smallest possible unit of code | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | like a method | 16:04 |
| lpabon | o/ (late) | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | we've got a number of tests that actually excercise multiple modules | 16:04 |
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| avishay | jgriffith: +1000 | 16:04 |
| cknight | jgriffith: +1 | 16:04 |
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| avishay | also the easiest way to test error path logic / syntax errors | 16:04 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: are you talking about driver unit tests or core unit tests? | 16:05 |
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| jgriffith | bswartz: all of the above | 16:05 |
| winston-d | jgriffith: +1,000 | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | also keep in mind that you may be clever but if nobody else knows how the hell your unit test works you're not that clever | 16:05 |
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| jgriffith | you're just annoying :) | 16:05 |
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| jgriffith | I plan on spending some time doing some cleanup in the coming weeks | 16:06 |
| thingee | another thing jgriffith and I were talking about earlier this week than thangp's object work showed is that we inconsistent mocks of volumes, snapshots etc | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | Also expect me to be much more picky in reviews | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | thingee: :) | 16:06 |
| DuncanT | But are pure unit tests actually useful at all? | 16:06 |
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| DuncanT | Most of the things we screw up are interfaces | 16:06 |
| avishay | DuncanT: yes IMO | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: absolutely if done correctly | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: sadly what we have now I argue is not useful | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | it doesn't actually test much | 16:07 |
| DuncanT | I'd agree there | 16:07 |
| e0ne | jgriffith: +1 | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | except the test code and how well the writer understands mox or mock | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | Anyway.... | 16:07 |
| thingee | jgriffith: so if someone wanted to sign up to help you.... | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | the other thing was about fake resource objects | 16:07 |
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| DuncanT | I just think that a unit test can helpfully test up to two modules or functions, not just one | 16:07 |
| winston-d | Like I mentioned in eariler meeting, we need better UT coverage | 16:07 |
| DuncanT | I'll keep my eye on your work though | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: +1 | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | ok.... so places to help? | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | low hanging fruit would be common fake objects | 16:08 |
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| jgriffith | currently each test has it's own "fake volume" or whatever | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | and it has just one or two fields (those needed for the test) | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | I'd like to see a set of common fake objects that are fully populated | 16:09 |
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| jungleboyj | jgriffith: +1 | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | and see those used/shared | 16:09 |
| kmartin | should some code coverage % be required? | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | Also unit tests that call other unit tests are no good IMO | 16:09 |
| e0ne | jgriffith: good idea, i like it:) | 16:09 |
| thingee | kmartin: honestly way earlier when I started in this project, I was strict on that in reviews, but I received backlash on that. | 16:09 |
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| asselin_ | o/ | 16:09 |
| e0ne | jgriffith: do we got such tests? | 16:09 |
| winston-d | jgriffith,thingee: for test coverage, how about posting the lowest 5/10 modules regularly | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | e0ne: we do :( | 16:10 |
| e0ne | oh no.... :( | 16:10 |
| winston-d | kmartin: our internal line for UT is 80% | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | anyway, I don't want to take up a ton of time | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | wanted to raise awareness | 16:10 |
| winston-d | kmartin: Nova, Swift, Neutron are all above 80%, sadly cinder only has < 75% | 16:10 |
| avishay | winston-d: our internal unit tests is 100% :P | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | get people thinking about it going forward | 16:11 |
| xyang1 | winston-d: what's the command to check coverage %? | 16:11 |
| kmartin | winston-d, ok should we not hold drivers to that as well? | 16:11 |
| DuncanT | It is far too easy to game a minimum coverage level | 16:11 |
| winston-d | xyang1: ./run_tests.sh -c | 16:11 |
| thingee | jgriffith: sounds good. We should have a plan of some sort...unit tests being broken is a giant thing. I think it would help if others pitched in to you help you | 16:11 |
| e0ne | winston-d, kmartin: we need to be vary careful with covrage and separating tests as unit or functional, imo | 16:11 |
| xyang1 | winston-d: thanks | 16:11 |
| ameade_ | reviewers should just be paying strong attn to tests... there are plenty of papers about the downsides of enforced coverage | 16:11 |
| avishay | kmartin: i usually run coverage on driver reviews and -1 if they are too low, but we don't define what too low is | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | thingee: yeah.... lemme see if I can come up with a plan | 16:11 |
| DuncanT | It is better to have less coverage but have it quality, than 100% coverage of useless tests | 16:11 |
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| jgriffith | bring it back at next meeting, or maybe at mid-cycle meetup? | 16:12 |
| thingee | #agreed improve unit tests | 16:12 |
| thingee | :) | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: I sense you're in a contrary mood today :) | 16:12 |
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| thingee | #action jgriffith will come up with a plan to make improvements in bite size pieces | 16:12 |
| thingee | :) | 16:12 |
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| jgriffith | cool that's all for now I think | 16:12 |
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| thingee | thanks jgriffith | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | My next topic is a noop now I think | 16:13 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: I've always felt unit tests are the least useful form of testing, and always felt I'm probably missing something, but if I aam then so are most people writing the tests | 16:13 |
| e0ne | jgriffith: i hope, you'll do it up to next meeting:). not everybody could attempt mid-cycle meetup | 16:13 |
| thingee | #topic Game plan for seperation of target drivers | 16:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Game plan for seperation of target drivers (Meeting topic: Cinder)" | 16:13 | |
| winston-d | DuncanT: right, we can be tougher reviewing UT, hopefully that can help gating the UT quality. | 16:13 |
| thingee | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/135139/ | 16:13 |
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| thingee | jgriffith: around? :) | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | e0ne: understood | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | LOL | 16:13 |
| e0ne | :_ | 16:13 |
| e0ne | :) | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | So I added that before the Holiday | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | patch has merged so we're at phase 2 | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | big shout out to mtanino for finding some bugs already | 16:14 |
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| jgriffith | TBH I had a hell of a time trying to keep that thing up to date and merged | 16:14 |
| mtanino | hi. | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | so I'm unfortunately expecting some hidden gems | 16:14 |
| * thingee is behind on bugs from yesterday | 16:15 | |
| jgriffith | mtanino: I'll look at that latest patch again this morning | 16:15 |
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| jgriffith | mtanino: and sorry, I hadn't realized you assigned the bug to yourself | 16:15 |
| thingee | jgriffith: I assume these bugs are already posted on LP | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | thingee: indeed (2) | 16:15 |
| mtanino | jgriffith: no problem :) | 16:15 |
| thingee | jgriffith: so what's next phase? | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | anyway, I initially proposed that topi becuase I was getting overwhelmed with the merge conflicts | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | thingee: that depends :) | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | thingee: ideally connection releated calls in the manager would be setup to be able to go directly to the target driver | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | BUT.... | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | that requires a ton of thrash on all the drivers, so probably not worth it | 16:17 |
| thingee | jgriffith: I anticipate k-2 being dedicated to bug fixing for this. | 16:17 |
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| jgriffith | I think the next thing to do is let it bake and start some optimization | 16:17 |
| thingee | k-3 I think won't be good time for it | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | thingee: there shouldn't be *that* many bugs :) | 16:17 |
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| jgriffith | anyway... I think it's better now to tweak whats there for K | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | revisit at summit if we want to go a step further with it | 16:18 |
| thingee | sounds good | 16:18 |
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| thingee | #action mtanino and jgriffith to do bug fixing on target driver related code | 16:18 |
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| thingee | jgriffith: anything else? | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | thingee: nah, I'm good... thanks!!! | 16:19 |
| thingee | #topic Update on Oslo namespace changes | 16:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Update on Oslo namespace changes (Meeting topic: Cinder)" | 16:19 | |
| thingee | jungleboyj: hey | 16:19 |
| thingee | #link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/oslo-specs/plain/specs/kilo/drop-namespace-packages.rst | 16:19 |
| jungleboyj | Howdy! | 16:19 |
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| jungleboyj | So, I feel like I maybe need to be more proactive with communication from Oslo. So here I am. :-) | 16:19 |
| jungleboyj | I apologize for the issues that popped up unexpectedly yesterday. | 16:20 |
| jungleboyj | Wanted to make people aware of what is going on. | 16:20 |
| jungleboyj | So, the oslo packages are all changing their namespace. I.E. oslo.config -> oslo_config . | 16:20 |
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| jungleboyj | This is happening because of a number of issues that oslo has been having with the current approach. You can see the link above for details. | 16:21 |
| navneet | jungleboyj: namespace colisons? | 16:21 |
| jungleboyj | What this means is that they are going to be release new library versions that move to using the new namespace. They are releasing with shims that allow the old oslo.config format to work for now. | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | jungleboyj: not true... please don't confuse things here | 16:22 |
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| jgriffith | oops... wrong person/window | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | sorry :) | 16:22 |
| jungleboyj | ? | 16:22 |
| jungleboyj | jgriffith: Ok. Good. | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:23 |
| * jgriffith got busted not paying attention in classs | 16:23 | |
| thingee | jungleboyj: sounds like a plan | 16:23 |
| jungleboyj | navneet: It is due to issue with setuptools. | 16:23 |
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| jungleboyj | So, I am going to be pushing changes up as they release to new libraries to use the new namespace so we aren't dependent upon the shims. | 16:23 |
| thingee | #action jungleboyj to change oslo.concurrency -> oslo_concurrency and oslo.config -> oslo_config | 16:23 |
| thingee | jungleboyj: anything else? | 16:24 |
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| jungleboyj | Also, please be aware as the new libraries are released we may run into other breakages like the one we saw yesterday. | 16:24 |
| ameade_ | oslo_i18n :P | 16:24 |
| thingee | don't use private methods | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | thingee: thanks for saying it for me :) | 16:24 |
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| jungleboyj | Bad unit testing was uncovered by the new library being released. | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | thingee: I almost popped a gasket | 16:24 |
| jungleboyj | If such issues arise, please let me know. | 16:25 |
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| jungleboyj | So, I think that is all I needed to say there. Just wanted people aware. | 16:25 |
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| thingee | jungleboyj: thanks | 16:25 |
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| jungleboyj | Also, note that I am close to getting all the incubator pieces updated. | 16:25 |
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| jungleboyj | Have two more patches to work out and push up. Policy and Scheduler. | 16:26 |
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| thingee | I also want to mention with lazy translation changes, even though we did talk to the people behind the change, it was reviewed in and was not caught | 16:26 |
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| kmartin | jungleboyj, are you changing all driver code references to these is one patch? or should the driver owners fix them? | 16:26 |
| * jungleboyj looks sheepish. | 16:26 | |
| jungleboyj | kmartin: I will take care of all of it. | 16:26 |
| thingee | #topic Where to do "san replica array configuration" | 16:26 |
| jungleboyj | Best to just have one big patch for each library. | 16:26 |
| kmartin | ok. thanks | 16:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Where to do "san replica array configuration" (Meeting topic: Cinder)" | 16:26 | |
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| thingee | TaoBai: hi | 16:27 |
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| navneet | jungleboyj: same question...we approach you in case of oslo changes issues | 16:27 |
| TaoBai | Hi | 16:27 |
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| jungleboyj | navneet: Yes. | 16:27 |
| jungleboyj | Start with me. | 16:27 |
| DuncanT | Can we add hacking checks for the out-dated oslo imports please | 16:27 |
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| DuncanT | Once they are believed fixed | 16:27 |
| TaoBai | I would like to cancle this topic , because duncan just clarify his proposal | 16:28 |
| jungleboyj | DuncanT: Would be happy to do that if people support it. | 16:28 |
| thingee | TaoBai: ok | 16:28 |
| DuncanT | jungleboyj: I certainly do. | 16:28 |
| thingee | #topic Request to review logging standards documentation | 16:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Request to review logging standards documentation (Meeting topic: Cinder)" | 16:28 | |
| avishay | TaoBai: DuncanT: what is the proposal please? | 16:28 |
| jungleboyj | DuncanT: Ok, will work on that as well. | 16:28 |
| thingee | jungleboyj: hi | 16:28 |
| jungleboyj | I am here. ;-) | 16:28 |
| DuncanT | TaoBai: Ping me if you've any questions | 16:28 |
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| thingee | #link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/oslo-specs/plain/specs/kilo/drop-namespace-packages.rst | 16:29 |
| jungleboyj | Hold on. | 16:29 |
| DuncanT | avishay: see the review - just insert an extra layer in the class hierachy | 16:29 |
| TaoBai | Duncan Thomas12:00 AM I'd agree with Avishay that they should be somewhere common, I just don't think that should be here - a subclass of this called ReplicatingSan or similar that can be further subclassed by storwize and others makes perfect sense. | 16:29 |
| e0ne | not sure that it is a correct link | 16:29 |
| DuncanT | thingee: That is the wrong link | 16:29 |
| avishay | TaoBai: DuncanT: works for me | 16:29 |
| TaoBai | And the like https://review.openstack.org/#/c/145113/1/cinder/volume/drivers/san/san.py | 16:29 |
| thingee | DuncanT: I blame jungleboyj for putting the wrong link in the agenda :) | 16:30 |
| jungleboyj | Did I? | 16:30 |
| jungleboyj | Oh sigh, I did. Hold on. | 16:30 |
| DuncanT | thingee: Blaming jungleboyj seems like a good general policy to me | 16:30 |
| jungleboyj | DuncanT: :-p | 16:30 |
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| TaoBai | avishay thanks for your confirm | 16:30 |
| jungleboyj | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/132552/ | 16:30 |
| jungleboyj | So, this is real short and sweet. Follow up from yesterday's cross projects meeting. | 16:31 |
| jungleboyj | They want to get this document merged. Want everyone aware of it and to review it. So, please take a few minutes to do so. | 16:31 |
| jungleboyj | It will be the base definition of how we do logging going forward. | 16:32 |
| TaoBai | Hi DuncanT, sure I will if there is | 16:32 |
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| thingee | jungleboyj: thanks | 16:33 |
| jungleboyj | thingee: Thank you. | 16:33 |
| thingee | #topic Midcycle meet up in austin | 16:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Midcycle meet up in austin (Meeting topic: Cinder)" | 16:33 | |
| thingee | jungleboyj: here?? | 16:33 |
| thingee | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/cinder-kilo-midcycle-meetup | 16:33 |
| e0ne | :) | 16:33 |
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| jungleboyj | Oh, me again. | 16:34 |
| jungleboyj | No, I left. ;-) | 16:34 |
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| thingee | jungleboyj: we had someone yesterday asking about attending. What should we tell people? | 16:34 |
| e0ne | jungleboyj: you're popular today | 16:35 |
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| jungleboyj | So, last thing. We have two weeks until the mid-cycle meetup. Looks like about 22 people on the list as coming. | 16:35 |
| jungleboyj | e0ne: Good way to be. ;-) | 16:35 |
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| jungleboyj | So, if people have questions about coming that are answered in the etherpad, direct them to me. | 16:35 |
| smcginnis | jungleboyj: Are we over capacity? | 16:35 |
| timcl | we will be putting names in for the 2 NetApp slots this week, we already are approved | 16:36 |
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| jungleboyj | smcginnis: Good question. The room that we currently have reserved will hold 25 comfortably. So, we are ok. I have Jennifer holding on to the backup room just in case. | 16:36 |
| winston-d | I thought we have 'infinite' capacity in Cinder. | 16:36 |
| e0ne | :) | 16:36 |
| bswartz | winston-d: lol | 16:36 |
| smcginnis | winston-d: Hah! | 16:36 |
| kmartin | lol | 16:36 |
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| avishay | lol | 16:36 |
| jungleboyj | So, I think we will be fine either way. Security issues are just less if we stay under 25, but am not going to turn anyone away. | 16:36 |
| e0ne | will we have agenda for it this week? it's very hard to get approval w/o agenda | 16:36 |
| jungleboyj | timcl: Good, need names for security and wireless access. So, appreciate you getting those. | 16:37 |
| kmartin | a few pending approval, DuncanT are you going to make it? | 16:37 |
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| DuncanT | kmartin: Hopefully, but not had a definite yes, yet | 16:37 |
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| DuncanT | I'll chase tomorrow | 16:37 |
| timcl | agenda would be nice too so we can plan who to send accordingly | 16:37 |
| thingee | jungleboyj: thanks again | 16:37 |
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| jungleboyj | Anyway, if you are going to attend, please make sure your name is in the etherpad: | 16:38 |
| jungleboyj | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/cinder-kilo-midcycle-meetup | 16:38 |
| thingee | #topic Request quick resolution for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/133102 | 16:38 |
| kmartin | Only a few potential topics? please add to the list | 16:38 |
| jungleboyj | thingee: Ok, I think I am done blathering on. | 16:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Request quick resolution for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/133102 (Meeting topic: Cinder)" | 16:38 | |
| thingee | deepakcs, sdague: here? | 16:38 |
| deepakcs | thingee, yes, | 16:38 |
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| thingee | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/133102/ | 16:38 |
| deepakcs | I quickly wanted to check with sdague on whether we need to wait for his devstack plugin patch to get our CI patch thru ? | 16:38 |
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| deepakcs | given the strict CI deadlines, i would suggest to let the gluster patch thru, and once sdague 's plugin patch is in, we can send another one | 16:39 |
| deepakcs | sdague, ^ | 16:39 |
| sdague | so the thing is, installing and configuring glusterfs is really dubious scope creep for devstack, which is why there hasn't been much interest on the devstack side | 16:40 |
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| deepakcs | sdague, Hmm what u mean by dubious ? | 16:40 |
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| thingee | deepakcs: I think it took ceph a year to get merged in :) | 16:40 |
| deepakcs | thingee, so u mean we get relaxed deadline for gluster ?;) | 16:41 |
| sdague | yeh, and glustefs is less clear than that | 16:41 |
| deepakcs | sdague, I believe BharatK (author of patch) complied with every review of yours :) | 16:41 |
| sdague | the external plugins support should alleviate it | 16:41 |
| thingee | deepakcs: honestly I would start by asking, why are you waiting for the last month? Gluster has been in cinder for some time now. | 16:41 |
| deepakcs | sdague, I see that ur plugin patch has +2, +1, so is it close to getting merged ? | 16:42 |
| sdague | deepakcs: this isn't just a check list thing, we said multiple times during the review that it was really unclear wheter putting glusterfs in devstack core made sense. | 16:42 |
| deepakcs | thingee, resource issues, which are now fixed :) | 16:42 |
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| sdague | dtroyer is now +2 on the external plugins, so I expect it to merge soon | 16:43 |
| sdague | chmouel or ianw need to weigh in | 16:43 |
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| deepakcs | sdague, ok great | 16:43 |
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| sdague | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/142805/7 | 16:43 |
| deepakcs | sdague, we will wait for ur plugin to get in & refactor our patch over it then. thanks | 16:44 |
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| thingee | cinder meetings are about making dreams come true | 16:44 |
| avishay | thingee: :) | 16:44 |
| sdague | deepakcs: fwiw, the test case for 142805 is actually your plugin in a github tree of mine | 16:44 |
| sdague | to prove it would support the glusterfs case | 16:45 |
| sdague | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/142815/8 | 16:45 |
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| thingee | sdague: thanks for chiming in | 16:45 |
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| thingee | deepakcs: anything else? | 16:45 |
| jungleboyj | thingee: I like that motto | 16:45 |
| deepakcs | sdague, cool, thanks again. I will follow up with BharatK on that | 16:45 |
| deepakcs | thingee, no, I am done | 16:46 |
| thingee | #topic open discussion | 16:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: Cinder)" | 16:46 | |
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| jungleboyj | Do we want to use this extra time to put together an agenda for the meet-up? | 16:46 |
| thingee | so I've been working on some changes that would allow for version discovery from cinder client | 16:46 |
| thingee | get rid of volumev2 service type | 16:47 |
| jungleboyj | thingee: +1 | 16:47 |
| winston-d | thingee: that will be nice | 16:47 |
| thingee | service type volume and url just point to x.x.x.x:8776 is all that will be need in the keystone service catalog | 16:47 |
| thingee | big thanks to jamielennox|away | 16:48 |
| thingee | for helping me | 16:48 |
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| thingee | and the previous behavior will be supported | 16:48 |
| thingee | volume and volumev2 | 16:48 |
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| thingee | jungleboyj: sure agenda items | 16:49 |
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| thingee | I think patrickeast has his target auth information topic | 16:49 |
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| jungleboyj | thingee: Putting f-2-f time in to wrap up open specs would be useful. | 16:51 |
| patrickeast | thingee: yep | 16:51 |
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| thingee | jungleboyj: ? | 16:52 |
| jungleboyj | thingee: We still have some specs that need to be approved. Right? | 16:52 |
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| thingee | jungleboyj: yeah but they're not in a ready state | 16:53 |
| jungleboyj | thingee: Thinking of xyang1 's CG spec. | 16:53 |
| thingee | I responded to some over the weekend | 16:53 |
| xyang1 | jungleboyj: thanks:) | 16:53 |
| thingee | jungleboyj: that one has a comment that needs to be addressed | 16:53 |
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| thingee | xyang1 mention she would have to think about it | 16:54 |
| xyang1 | thingee: I think I've already addressed | 16:54 |
| thingee | I'll recheck | 16:54 |
| jungleboyj | I was going to look at some more today as well. Just thinking that making some time to talk thorugh issues f-2-f would be useful. | 16:54 |
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| xyang1 | thingee: and jason is ok with it | 16:54 |
| thingee | sorry what is f-2-f? :P | 16:54 |
| smcginnis | jungleboyj: I think we did that last time and it was useful. | 16:54 |
| thingee | xyang1: thanks | 16:54 |
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| smcginnis | thingee: Face to face. | 16:55 |
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| jungleboyj | smcginnis: +2 | 16:55 |
| thingee | heh | 16:55 |
| smcginnis | "Open discussion" | 16:55 |
| jungleboyj | Thankfully we don't have drivers to get merged. | 16:55 |
| thingee | I'm not sure how far along DuncanT will be getting with the rpc work for versioned objects. | 16:55 |
| thingee | but we should be in better shape with thangp's cinder object work to talk about it some more | 16:56 |
| xyang1 | jungleboyj: we have driver updates that need to be merged by k-2:) | 16:56 |
| jungleboyj | xyang1: True enough. | 16:56 |
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| asselin_ | For those setting up 3rd party ci: there are now "mentoring meetings" to help you out. | 16:58 |
| asselin_ | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ThirdParty#Agenda_for_next_Mentoring_meeting | 16:58 |
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| thingee | ok thanks everyone. if you want to propose an agenda item for the midcycle meetup, add it here https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/cinder-kilo-midcycle-meetup | 16:58 |
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| thingee | asselin_: thanks! | 16:58 |
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| thingee | #endmeeting | 16:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jan 7 16:59:10 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2015/cinder.2015-01-07-16.00.html | 16:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2015/cinder.2015-01-07-16.00.txt | 16:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2015/cinder.2015-01-07-16.00.log.html | 16:59 |
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| jungleboyj | Thanks everyone! | 16:59 |
| deepakcs | bye all | 16:59 |
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| garyk | hi, anyone around for the vmware meeting? | 17:01 |
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| rgerganov | y0 | 17:01 |
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| * markvoelker waves | 17:01 | |
| tjones1 | yo | 17:01 |
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| vbala | hi | 17:01 |
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| tjones1 | thanks gary for starting - i got here in time | 17:01 |
| tjones1 | #startmeeting vmwareapi | 17:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jan 7 17:02:01 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is tjones1. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)" | 17:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'vmwareapi' | 17:02 |
| tjones1 | hi folks and happy new year | 17:02 |
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| rgerganov | happy new year! | 17:02 |
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| tjones1 | i'd like this to be a short meeting today (as i have a conflict). so lets get going | 17:02 |
| tjones1 | #topic approved BP discussion | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "approved BP discussion (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)" | 17:02 | |
| garyk | i am here (or i think so) | 17:02 |
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| tjones1 | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack?searchtext=vmware | 17:02 |
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| tjones1 | we've got a bunch of approved BP (suddenly). some not on my radar even. the ones on my radar are https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/VMwareapi-kilo | 17:04 |
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| tjones1 | those are the ones i consider critical from our customer perspective | 17:04 |
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| tjones1 | anyone want to discuss ? | 17:04 |
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| garyk | ephemerals is still in flight - dealing with resing issues | 17:04 |
| garyk | resizing issues | 17:05 |
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| tjones1 | yeah - but moving at least. | 17:05 |
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| tjones1 | how about vsan and ova? | 17:05 |
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| rgerganov | the second vsan patch is approved | 17:05 |
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| rgerganov | but depends on the first one which is not approved | 17:05 |
| rgerganov | the OVA patch has +2 and I need to address some comments | 17:06 |
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| tjones1 | hurrah! do you guys think we can make k-2 with these? | 17:06 |
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| tjones1 | these 3? | 17:06 |
| rgerganov | we have our chances | 17:06 |
| tjones1 | :-) | 17:06 |
| rgerganov | unfortunately my spec for new console api didn't meet the deadline | 17:07 |
| rgerganov | only the consolidation spec was approved on time | 17:07 |
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| tjones1 | do you have a link? | 17:07 |
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| tjones1 | rado - i see this console log approved https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/vmware-console-log | 17:08 |
| rgerganov | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/141065 | 17:08 |
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| rgerganov | tjones1: this is for the serial log | 17:08 |
| tjones1 | sorry | 17:08 |
| rgerganov | and this is the html5 console: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/127283/ | 17:09 |
| tjones1 | is this a general BP (not vmware specific)? | 17:09 |
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| tjones1 | ah yes - this is the change to the api | 17:09 |
| tjones1 | a little slow this am | 17:09 |
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| tjones1 | ok lets go to BP in review then | 17:10 |
| tjones1 | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova-specs+message:vmware,n,z | 17:10 |
| tjones1 | rgerganov: now that the api spec is approved, you have 2 +1 on the html5 console. it looks like we are close in getting this one in? | 17:11 |
| rgerganov | tjones1: the deadline for specs was Dec 18th | 17:11 |
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| rgerganov | we need to ask for exception | 17:11 |
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| rgerganov | not sure what the process is | 17:11 |
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| tjones1 | ugh - sorry i was out and dropped the ball here. the process is to send an email out to the ML asking for exception | 17:12 |
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| garyk | sorry guys, i need to cut off. | 17:12 |
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| tjones1 | gary - anything you need to discuss real quick? | 17:12 |
| rgerganov | tjones1: ok, will try that | 17:12 |
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| tjones1 | thanks rgerganov i'd love to get this in (as you know) | 17:13 |
| tjones1 | :-) | 17:13 |
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| garyk | tjones1: not really. | 17:13 |
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| tjones1 | next one is dropped #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/128697/ | 17:13 |
| tjones1 | Using cinder volumes backed by VMware raw devices | 17:13 |
| tjones1 | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/128691/ | 17:14 |
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| tjones1 | next one is mutliple disks in an ova | 17:14 |
| tjones1 | dims__: are you guys still pushing this? | 17:14 |
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| dims__ | tjones1: will have to ping radu mateescu, not sure | 17:15 |
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| tjones1 | we would need to ask for an exception since it's past the deadline | 17:15 |
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| dims__ | tjones1: ack | 17:15 |
| tjones1 | dims__: i was talking about https://review.openstack.org/#/c/128691/ | 17:16 |
| tjones1 | the one tflower was driving | 17:16 |
| tjones1 | any other BP that we *should* have asked for an exception on?? | 17:17 |
| dims__ | tjones1: no | 17:17 |
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| tjones1 | ok lets move on | 17:17 |
| tjones1 | #topic bugs | 17:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)" | 17:17 | |
| tjones1 | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bugs?field.tag=vmware | 17:17 |
| tjones1 | anyone blocked by any of these bugs | 17:18 |
| tjones1 | silence means no ;-) | 17:18 |
| tjones1 | #topic open discussion | 17:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)" | 17:19 | |
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| rgerganov | Vipin has posted a patch which integrate oslo.vmware into Cinder | 17:19 |
| rgerganov | which is great | 17:19 |
| rgerganov | I still need to go over it | 17:19 |
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| tjones1 | before the hoilday we decided to have this meeting alternating between times good for PST and times good for china/india. gary is going to lead that meeting and i will continue with this TZ. I'll try to set that up this week and send email to the ML about it. | 17:20 |
| tjones1 | im hoping that will allow more folks to participate. | 17:21 |
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| rgerganov | sounds good | 17:21 |
| tjones1 | in addition we are going to open it to all projects which have an interest in the vmware driver - such as glance and cinder. I'll send that to the ML as well. | 17:21 |
| tjones1 | that's all i wanted to tell you guys. anyone have anything else? | 17:21 |
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| tjones1 | *listens* | 17:22 |
| tjones1 | rgerganov: great news about cinder too. thanks for mentioning it | 17:22 |
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| tjones1 | ok think we are done. thanks guys for joining today. | 17:23 |
| rgerganov | thanks, bye | 17:23 |
| tjones1 | #endmeeting | 17:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:23 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jan 7 17:23:38 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:23 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2015/vmwareapi.2015-01-07-17.02.html | 17:23 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2015/vmwareapi.2015-01-07-17.02.txt | 17:23 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2015/vmwareapi.2015-01-07-17.02.log.html | 17:23 |
| vbala | bye | 17:24 |
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| sarob | whos here for the trainer meeting? | 18:00 |
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| sarob | #startmeeting trainers | 18:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jan 7 18:02:28 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sarob. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: trainers)" | 18:02 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'trainers' | 18:02 |
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| sarob | i didnt remind the team that we would have a meeting today | 18:03 |
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| sarob | so this is to keep a record | 18:04 |
| sarob | the next training session using the training-guides associate guide will be 22 jan | 18:05 |
| sarob | #link http://www.meetup.com/openstack/events/219341335/ | 18:05 |
| sarob | the training-guides are moving towards using slides | 18:05 |
| sarob | i will be looping the ambassadors team into the work being done with community training | 18:06 |
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| sarob | upstream training as developer training within the user groups | 18:06 |
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| sarob | #action sarob remind trainers team of next week's meeting 14 jan 10am PST | 18:07 |
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| sarob | #action sarob give update on associate training progress | 18:08 |
| elo | am I late? | 18:08 |
| sarob | #action sarob loop in progress on upstream training | 18:08 |
| sarob | elo yup but no problem | 18:08 |
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| sarob | elo i forgot to remind the rest of the team | 18:09 |
| sarob | elo so just you and me | 18:09 |
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| sarob | elo how is it going | 18:09 |
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| sarob | elo still there? | 18:12 |
| elo | Ok. | 18:12 |
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| elo | In Austin helping out with VCDX training | 18:12 |
| sarob | elo cool | 18:13 |
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| elo | trying to get up to speed on what training and Congress is doing | 18:13 |
| sarob | sure | 18:13 |
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| sarob | its proceeding on a couple of fronts | 18:14 |
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| sarob | want to close this meeting on talk offline? | 18:14 |
| elo | sure. | 18:14 |
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| sarob | #endmeeting | 18:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:15 | |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jan 7 18:15:14 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:15 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/trainers/2015/trainers.2015-01-07-18.02.html | 18:15 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/trainers/2015/trainers.2015-01-07-18.02.txt | 18:15 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/trainers/2015/trainers.2015-01-07-18.02.log.html | 18:15 |
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| clayg | weeee! | 18:59 |
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| notmyname | weeeeeeeeee | 19:00 |
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| notmyname | swift meeting time | 19:00 |
| peluse | yahoooooo | 19:00 |
| cschwede | Happy New Year everyone :) | 19:00 |
| mattoliverau | lol, some people get too excited this early in the morning :P | 19:00 |
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| notmyname | heh | 19:00 |
| notmyname | #startmeeting swift | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jan 7 19:00:38 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:00 | |
| kota_ | yey:) | 19:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'swift' | 19:00 |
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| notmyname | hello everyone | 19:00 |
| mahatic | hello | 19:00 |
| mattoliverau | o/ | 19:01 |
| peluse | hola | 19:01 |
| notmyname | welcome back. I hope you had a good christmas/holiday/new year/solstice/etc | 19:01 |
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| notmyname | I've been catching up this week since I was out of town for a while | 19:01 |
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| acoles | hi | 19:01 |
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| notmyname | there's a few things to cover today, but nothing too big, I think | 19:02 |
| notmyname | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Swift | 19:02 |
| * torgomatic says words to indicate presence | 19:02 | |
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| notmyname | #topic general stuff | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "general stuff (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:02 | |
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| notmyname | first up, as an FYI there is an openstack ops meetup (sort of their mid-cycle things) in Philadelphia on March 9-10 | 19:03 |
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| notmyname | it's a good place to talk to other people running different openstack services | 19:03 |
| cutforth | hello - sorry late for role call | 19:03 |
| notmyname | it's normally kindof light on swift things (which is good), but it's IMO a good thing for ops to be aware of | 19:04 |
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| notmyname | I'll be there representing swift and listening | 19:04 |
| notmyname | so if you or others who are running swift (and/or other openstack things) want to attend, there's the info | 19:05 |
| notmyname | I think there'll be more info coming soon from fifieldt_ | 19:05 |
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| notmyname | other things... | 19:06 |
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| notmyname | I want to have a new release for swift as soon as a few outstanding patches land (I'll cover them later with priority reviews) | 19:06 |
| notmyname | but the point is, expect a 2.2.2 or 2.3 soon ish. I hope for around the end of January. just depends on reviews | 19:07 |
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| notmyname | That's the boilerplate stuff I have. anyone else have announcements? | 19:07 |
| zaitcev | I'm trying, I'm trying. | 19:07 |
| zaitcev | I mean, reviews. | 19:08 |
| notmyname | I'll be visiting mattoliverau next week at LCA in New Zealand | 19:08 |
| mattoliverau | woo | 19:08 |
| clayg | notmyname: nice! tell him "keep up the good work" | 19:08 |
| notmyname | today's task is to make progress on my talk.... | 19:08 |
| clayg | where "good work" ~= "pointing out all of sam and mine bugs" | 19:08 |
| notmyname | mattoliverau: clayg says "keep up the good work!" | 19:08 |
| mattoliverau | notmyname: tell clayg "thanks man" :) | 19:09 |
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| notmyname | if there's no other announcements, then let's move to some priority reviews | 19:09 |
| tdasilva | notmyname: I think the first review on "ring placement changes" was merged earlier today, so making progress there :) | 19:09 |
| notmyname | #topic priority reviews | 19:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "priority reviews (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:09 | |
| notmyname | tdasilva: great!! | 19:09 |
| notmyname | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Swift/PriorityReviews | 19:10 |
| notmyname | there's a category there for ring placement changes | 19:10 |
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| lpabon | o/ (i'm late) but here | 19:10 |
| notmyname | those are the things that fix issues that swiftstack and red hat found over the last month based on some data placement in small and unbalanceable clusters | 19:10 |
| zaitcev | I'd like Clay to re-publish 144432 if he's got a moment | 19:11 |
| cschwede | notmyname: as tdasilva mentioned - the first one for the ring placement has been merged. i remove it from the list | 19:11 |
| torgomatic | if people would just have enough failure domains, this would all be so much simpler | 19:11 |
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| clayg | zaitcev: which one is that? | 19:11 |
| notmyname | we used to place data solely on failure domain. which doesn't work for failure domains that don't have a similar size (thing adding a zone or region gradually) | 19:11 |
| notmyname | cschwede: thanks | 19:11 |
| zaitcev | clayg: "dispersion" command | 19:11 |
| clayg | i have some moments today, reviews and rebases is on the list | 19:11 |
| notmyname | now we take into account weight. which doesn't work if there are some unbalanceable rings with not enough failure domains | 19:12 |
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| notmyname | so these patches give a really nice midpoint. allowing a ring to have an "overload" parameter which means that partitions can be placed in a failure domain, even if it's "full" by weight | 19:13 |
| notmyname | read the full commit message | 19:13 |
| clayg | torgomatic: well if you have 6 failure domains in a tier but their sized 10000 10 10 10 10 10 - you're still sorta screwed | 19:13 |
| notmyname | clayg: not that we'd _ever_ see anything like that on a production cluster /s | 19:13 |
| clayg | notmyname: I like to think of it of trading balance for dispersion | 19:13 |
| notmyname | clayg: ya, that's a great way to put it | 19:13 |
| cschwede | clayg: well, just increase the overload factor? | 19:13 |
| torgomatic | clayg: if people would just not do that, this would all be much simpler ;) | 19:13 |
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| cschwede | torgomatic: people like complicated deployments ;) | 19:14 |
| clayg | cschwede: no in that case I think you needed to see your dispersion is fucked and manually reduce the weights in the 10000 tier | 19:14 |
| clayg | torgomatic: lol! | 19:14 |
| notmyname | and the final patch in the chain is clayg's really great visualization (reporting) of dispersion vs balance. that's really important to (1) understand torgomatic's patch and (2) tell people how to fix or set the overload factor | 19:14 |
| zaitcev | You know, guys, my head is really stupid and I'm having trouble thinking about what happens if we add that overload factor. Not sure how representative I'm of an operator. | 19:14 |
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| cschwede | zaitcev: if you don’t set it - nothing changes | 19:15 |
| cschwede | that said this is most likely not what you want | 19:15 |
| * peluse read that at first as "if you don't get it..." :) | 19:15 | |
| notmyname | zaitcev: basically, it let's you add eg 10% more partitions to a server so that eg if a server's drive fails the same server (failure domain) can pick up those parts without trying to move to a different server that already has another replica of the same partition | 19:16 |
| clayg | zaitcev: i honestly couldn't "see" what overload does without the dispersion report - and overload was sorta my idea (mostly I was just there when cschwede had the idea, which is like at least partial credit) | 19:16 |
| mattoliverau | lol, and that's true too :P | 19:16 |
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| zaitcev | okay, thanks... I copy-pasted it for future reference. | 19:16 |
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| notmyname | so if you have 3 servers (1 zone, 1 region), you don't want to put 2 replicas on different drives in the same server if there is still space on different drives in the server that had the drive failure | 19:17 |
| clayg | /* You are not expected to understand this */ | 19:17 |
| notmyname | lol | 19:17 |
| notmyname | so I really like the idea on paper (commit message), but ya it's tricky to get my mind wrapped around the actual placement algo | 19:18 |
| zaitcev | actually that original code wasn't hard to understand if you knew how PDP-11 worked | 19:18 |
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| clayg | zaitcev: lol you mean the original unix source where that comment/meme came from | 19:18 |
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| clayg | zaitcev: I was like... I've never even *heard* of PDP-11 | 19:19 |
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| notmyname | clayg: that's why it's hard for you to understand the ring. obviously. | 19:19 |
| clayg | ANYWAY - yeah trading balance for dispersion | 19:19 |
| notmyname | ;-) | 19:19 |
| torgomatic | Spinal Tap used those for audio processing, right? | 19:20 |
| clayg | it's like a slider to tell the ring how much you want swift < 2.0 or > 2.0 | 19:20 |
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| notmyname | ok, so the other patch I want in the next release is the one to fix large out of sync containers | 19:20 |
| clayg | do you want ubalanced rings that screw you with full disk, or un dispersed rings that screw you with failure | 19:20 |
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| notmyname | so once those 4 land (3 for ring balance-including the one that landed today) and the 1 for container replication, I'll look at cutting a release | 19:20 |
| clayg | OR do you want to stop and pull your head out of your cluster-frankenstien and acctually think about a reasonable deployment for minute | 19:20 |
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| cschwede | clayg: too easy. | 19:21 |
| notmyname | there's obviously some other stuff going on (other patches, other bugs), but those are the priority things so we can remove the foot-gun from users | 19:22 |
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| notmyname | I'll come back to other patches in a bit | 19:22 |
| notmyname | but moving on | 19:22 |
| notmyname | #topic EC status | 19:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "EC status (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:22 | |
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| notmyname | monday and tuesday peluse came out to SF to work with torgomatic clayg and me on some of the outstanding work (thanks peluse!) | 19:23 |
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| notmyname | so the current status is good (but there's still a lot to do) | 19:23 |
| peluse | yup, few big items to hit... | 19:23 |
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| notmyname | reconstruction is shaping up nicely | 19:24 |
| peluse | reconstructor: functional in basic use case, WIP to make it compelte but we all have good line of sight on next steps! | 19:24 |
| notmyname | yay | 19:24 |
| peluse | PUT: tsg and yuanz are wrapping up a proposal to finalize PUT (the durable stuff) | 19:24 |
| notmyname | tushar has a little work to finish up the PUT path | 19:24 |
| * notmyname let's peluse talk ;-) | 19:24 | |
| peluse | GET: clayg is the man! | 19:24 |
| notmyname | s/'/ | 19:24 |
| peluse | once those 3 big items are done we can focus on testing... | 19:24 |
| peluse | probetets need some groundwork that I think torgomatic will start tackling soon | 19:24 |
| peluse | and the functional tests also need to small overhaul but nothing super intrusive I hope | 19:25 |
| peluse | trello is fully up to date | 19:25 |
| peluse | https://trello.com/b/LlvIFIQs/swift-erasure-codes | 19:25 |
| notmyname | #link https://trello.com/b/LlvIFIQs/swift-erasure-codes | 19:25 |
| peluse | and priority reviews are also up to date.... | 19:25 |
| peluse | questions? | 19:25 |
| peluse | or additoinal comments from sam/clay/john? | 19:26 |
| notmyname | I'm hoping that in the next few weeks we'll have basic PUT/GET functionality and ready for the final testing and polishing | 19:26 |
| peluse | heack yeah! | 19:26 |
| mattoliverau | I know clayg is the man... but sounds like he will be handling every EC GET personally :P | 19:26 |
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| notmyname | as I told some others as to the status of EC, there's light at the end of the tunnel. and it's likely not an oncoming train. so we're good! | 19:26 |
| notmyname | mattoliverau: basically, ya. just send all your data to him ;-) | 19:27 |
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| peluse | also, reminder, there are doc and spec patches out there for anyone looking for latest/greatest tech info | 19:27 |
| peluse | links coming... | 19:27 |
| peluse | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/142146/ https://review.openstack.org/#/c/144895/ | 19:27 |
| * eren greets all the great people here and silently watches the meeting | 19:28 | |
| peluse | feedback welcome for sure!! (on both) | 19:28 |
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| notmyname | yes. now is a great time to start groking all the EC stuff. soon(ish) we'll be talking about the merge to master | 19:29 |
| mattoliverau | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/142146/ | 19:29 |
| mattoliverau | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/144895/ | 19:29 |
| notmyname | mattoliverau: thanks | 19:29 |
| clayg | notmyname: EC GET is one of my piorities over the next few weeks, I'd love to see it working and passing tests, and covering some first form failures (handoffs) - but there's a bunch of complexity down the road that won't be ready in the first version of EC GET that we merge | 19:29 |
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| clayg | notmyname: e.g. taking advantage of the .durables :P | 19:29 |
| peluse | clayg, good point. we are talking basic functinoality on all this stuff | 19:30 |
| peluse | bells and whistles will cost extra :) | 19:30 |
| clayg | nice | 19:30 |
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| notmyname | right. so eg the first version of EC shipped to customers might not have the ability to resume GETs from a different server if a drive fails in the middle of a read | 19:31 |
| notmyname | clayg: ^^ that's one you talked about right? | 19:31 |
| notmyname | (just wanted a practical example) | 19:31 |
| clayg | sure good practical example | 19:31 |
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| peluse | that's a good one - I think the .durable stuff/cleanup will come very quickly after basic functinliaty whereas resume might be further away | 19:31 |
| clayg | notmyname: or we might get it in, might not, i'm just saying the patch in my head for the ECObjController will basically barely work, and there's tons of other smarter things that we'll have to add like dealing with reads from partially complete PUTs | 19:32 |
| notmyname | right right | 19:33 |
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| notmyname | and that's a good thing | 19:33 |
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| notmyname | anything else on EC? questions? explanation? | 19:33 |
| notmyname | ok | 19:34 |
| peluse | sweet | 19:34 |
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| notmyname | #topic interest in undelete/delayed delete [cschwede] | 19:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "interest in undelete/delayed delete [cschwede] (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:34 | |
| notmyname | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/143799/ | 19:34 |
| notmyname | cschwede: you're up | 19:34 |
| cschwede | Swift currently has no protection from defective or incorrect usage. Think for example buggy external applications that delete a lot of objects within a short timeframe or misused credentials. | 19:34 |
| cschwede | I propose a delayed deletion of object file to add some protection for operators. The idea is quite simple: the actual .data/.meta deletion is replaced with a rename, and the "deleted" object is stored in a second subdirectory "deleted_objects" (instead of "objects"). Only the last version is kept, and there is no replication for these files. | 19:34 |
| cschwede | Either an external (running find by cron) or internal process (object-reaper?) removes these files periodically (for example after 24 hours). | 19:34 |
| notmyname | torgomatic: ping (you might be interested in this) | 19:34 |
| cschwede | My questions on this are: 1. Is there general interest for this inside Swift? 2. Does the approach sounds reasonable? In this case I would continue my work on the upstream patch | 19:34 |
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| peluse | cschwede, FYI we're doing something along those lines with EC for different reasons | 19:35 |
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| peluse | cschwede, would be a good topic for hackathon whiteboard sessions, are you coming? | 19:35 |
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| cschwede | peluse: 99.9% yes :) | 19:35 |
| peluse | fantastic! | 19:35 |
| notmyname | cschwede: we've seen interest from customers for similar functionality | 19:35 |
| zaitcev | cschwede: did anyone ask for it | 19:36 |
| clayg | cschwede: "only the latest version is kept" means - only one "last" copy - that can happen either on an overwrite (PUT) or delete? | 19:36 |
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| zaitcev | also, we have the object expirer, can that be re-used | 19:36 |
| cschwede | notmyname: yes, this is a customer request as well | 19:36 |
| cschwede | zaitcev: yes | 19:36 |
| notmyname | cschwede: what's you're use case? where are you seeing this need (to zaitcev's pitn) | 19:36 |
| clayg | zaitcev: yeah i've seen people ask | 19:36 |
| notmyname | ah, cool | 19:36 |
| cschwede | clayg: yes | 19:36 |
| peluse | clayg, FYI I'm thinkin about maybe leveraging some of the .durable type stuff hwoever using a different trigger other than the .durable file. Just brainstorming | 19:36 |
| cschwede | notmyname: use case: protection from external application bugs and credential abuse | 19:37 |
| clayg | cschwede: yeah the part i don't like about what you threw up so far was all the animosity I currently fell towards quarantines | 19:37 |
| clayg | cschwede: like we keep that shit around "just in case" but in reality I feel like I don't really have a good grok on what's there | 19:37 |
| torgomatic | as always, the question "does an object with this name currently exist" is a very hard question to answer in an eventually-consistent system, so let's not build anything that relies on answering that question | 19:38 |
| clayg | cschwede: if someone wanted something out of these deleted_objects dirs - it's like a swift-get-nodes call, and then hope you haven't rebalanced since the delete, and then manually pull it out :\ | 19:38 |
| zaitcev | quarantine is for postmortem I thought | 19:38 |
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| zaitcev | like the always-on diags, you want to see what happened. what if it's bug in pickling or elsewhere | 19:38 |
| cschwede | clayg: good point. hmm. | 19:38 |
| clayg | cschwede: no one is paying for for the storage, and some people really don't need that kind of protection | 19:39 |
| cschwede | clayg: right, but some people really need it - so it would be an option, disabled by default | 19:39 |
| zaitcev | so quarantine is not like what cschwede proposes, in my mind anyway. That is more like object versioning maybe. | 19:39 |
| notmyname | cschwede: the .durable idea for EC might have interesting applications here. or maybe not. it's not fully implemented/fleshed-out in EC land yet | 19:39 |
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| clayg | cschwede: well i'm just suggesting that maybe it's not a cluster-wide on or off switch | 19:40 |
| * tdasilva wonders if it would make sense to implement obj. versioning where deletes are supported | 19:40 | |
| peluse | yup, too many unknowns for make IRC discussion feasible but a great thing to talk about in person | 19:40 |
| notmyname | cschwede: one other idea I've seen is to move objects to a system-level account (eg .deleted) on a DELETE. then reap that maybe with expirer later) | 19:40 |
| clayg | cschwede: i feel like if could be like versioned objects 2.0 | 19:40 |
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| cschwede | notmyname: that’s too slow in this case - because it is basically a COPY with a lot of data shuffling | 19:40 |
| notmyname | ya, that's be cool to. (versioned objects with delete support) | 19:41 |
| notmyname | cschwede: ya | 19:41 |
| clayg | cschwede: but if it's something the user can either choose to do or not i guess it doesn't really protect against credential abuse :\ | 19:41 |
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| cschwede | clayg: exactly. it should be enabled by the operator | 19:41 |
| notmyname | cschwede: I think you've got the answer to the basic question: yes there's interest :-) | 19:41 |
| notmyname | and no shortage of ideas | 19:41 |
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| cschwede | notmyname: yep, thanks, so i continue work on this and propose something during the hackathon :) | 19:41 |
| notmyname | cool | 19:41 |
| cschwede | thx all for the feedback/ideas! | 19:42 |
| notmyname | thanks for bringing it up! | 19:42 |
| notmyname | #topic open discussion | 19:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:42 | |
| notmyname | what else do you have? | 19:42 |
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| clayg | zaitcev: my comment on quarantines was just that it's this other directory that's not really managed by swift daemons anymore - it is postmortem, but a deleted objects dir is also postmortem (hey I just accidently the whole thing - do you have a backup?) | 19:43 |
| cutforth | speaking of the hackathon, are there any details yet? | 19:43 |
| notmyname | cutforth: I'll be working on that at 1pm today | 19:43 |
| cutforth | notmyname: k, thx | 19:43 |
| notmyname | (ie in about an hour) | 19:43 |
| notmyname | if there's nothing else, let's be done | 19:44 |
| notmyname | thanks everyone for coming today. and thanks for working on swift | 19:44 |
| notmyname | lot's of people are using what you're making. at large scale, in prod, all over the world | 19:45 |
| peluse | rock n roll | 19:45 |
| notmyname | #endmeeting | 19:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:45 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jan 7 19:45:24 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:45 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2015/swift.2015-01-07-19.00.html | 19:45 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2015/swift.2015-01-07-19.00.txt | 19:45 |
| mattoliverau | thanks notmyname :) | 19:45 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2015/swift.2015-01-07-19.00.log.html | 19:45 |
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| sbalukoff | #startmeeting Octavia | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jan 7 20:01:51 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sbalukoff. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Octavia)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'octavia' | 20:01 |
| sbalukoff | #topic Roll CAll | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll CAll (Meeting topic: Octavia)" | 20:01 | |
| rm_work | is this our channel? | 20:01 |
| rm_work | I thought we were in alt or something | 20:02 |
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| rm_work | sbalukoff: endmeeting? :P | 20:02 |
| sbalukoff | #endmeeting | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:03 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jan 7 20:03:01 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:03 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/octavia/2015/octavia.2015-01-07-20.01.html | 20:03 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/octavia/2015/octavia.2015-01-07-20.01.txt | 20:03 |
| eren | lol, what's the correct channel? | 20:03 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/octavia/2015/octavia.2015-01-07-20.01.log.html | 20:03 |
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| dneary | Hi | 21:16 |
| dneary | Did I get the time wrong? Thought the Telco meeting was on now | 21:16 |
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| vkmc | dneary, maybe it is in #openstack-meeting-3 or #openstack-meeting-alt | 21:20 |
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| steveg | #startmeeting telcowg | 22:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jan 7 22:00:21 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is steveg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 22:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: telcowg)" | 22:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'telcowg' | 22:00 |
| steveg | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TelcoWorkingGroup | 22:00 |
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| steveg | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nfv-meeting-agenda | 22:00 |
| steveg | #topic roll call | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: telcowg)" | 22:00 | |
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| ijw | o/ | 22:00 |
| steveg | who's around for the telco working group meeting? | 22:00 |
| steveg | hi cloudon, ijw, amitry | 22:01 |
| cloudon | hi | 22:01 |
| amitry | hola | 22:01 |
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| steveg | ok | 22:02 |
| steveg | #topic action items from last meeting | 22:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "action items from last meeting (Meeting topic: telcowg)" | 22:02 | |
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| steveg | #info DaSchab was aiming to get an initial use case draft on wiki by end of next week | 22:02 |
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| steveg | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TelcoWorkingGroup/UseCases#Security_Segregation_.28Placement_Zones.29 | 22:02 |
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| steveg | the above use case regarding security segregation/placement zones was recently added to the wiki for review | 22:03 |
| steveg | #info rprakash was adding Mobile Network use case for GTP tunneling and will bring it next week | 22:03 |
| steveg | i got sent a draft of this via email in ODT format, im just confirming that it's ok to upload to the wiki | 22:04 |
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| ijw | It's not telco-specific, it's a fairly common requirement in enterprise cases too given that you might e..g have requirements to keep financial data separate | 22:04 |
| ijw | Well, more accurately, the idea of dedicated hosts is | 22:05 |
| steveg | right | 22:05 |
| steveg | i have not had a chance to review it specifically | 22:05 |
| ijw | The question of whether you would divide a cloud with a single control plane among multiple security levels of network - that's a matter of taste, but I wouldn't, I would consider it a violation of airgap security between your DNZ and the more secure bits of the network | 22:05 |
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| steveg | but are we saying this is more broadly in scope for say win the enterprise? | 22:05 |
| ijw | (I'm skimming here so please tell me if I've misunderstood) | 22:05 |
| steveg | as am i :) | 22:06 |
| ijw | I think (a) zones of differing workload security: yes, it's not telco-specific, but we may want to put our name to it | 22:06 |
| steveg | daschab is not here as i believe the other timeslot is when he is usually able to attend | 22:06 |
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| ijw | (b) zones in different security domains on the network - probably something we should consider making recommendations about (in my instance, against) | 22:06 |
| steveg | yeah, i think it still makes sense to record the telco use cases for such to ensure they are catered to | 22:06 |
| ijw | So if we do stuff that's best-practice related I wonder where we put it? | 22:07 |
| steveg | barrett1, ^^ ? | 22:07 |
| steveg | yeah | 22:07 |
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| steveg | i mean broadly the only current deliverable would arguably be the ops guide | 22:08 |
| ijw | DaSchab isn't around to discuss his side, I take it? | 22:08 |
| steveg | yeah | 22:08 |
| steveg | pretty sure he is EU based | 22:08 |
| cloudon | might be a dumb qn as just skimming it too, but can this not be achieved by using host aggregates to represent the placement zones? | 22:08 |
| steveg | could be wrong though | 22:08 |
| barrett1 | Best Practice info could get added into the OpenStack Ops Guide | 22:08 |
| ijw | cloudon kinda - more of a question is why you wouldn't just use multiple clouds | 22:09 |
| ijw | cloudon: I don't think AZs work because he's saying 'compute, network and storage are all divided' | 22:09 |
| ijw | ... and if they are then the only commonailty is actually keystone | 22:09 |
| ijw | Possibly glance | 22:09 |
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| cloudon | yup, fair points | 22:10 |
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| steveg | #info (a) zones of differing workload security: yes, it's not telco-specific, but worth tracking and recording telco use cases thereof | 22:11 |
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| steveg | #info (b) zones in different security domains on the network - probably something we should consider making recommendations about - best practices --> ops guide? | 22:12 |
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| steveg | ok | 22:12 |
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| barrett1 | There's also a security guide, so it might be that the AZ best practice belongs there | 22:12 |
| steveg | #topic use cases | 22:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "use cases (Meeting topic: telcowg)" | 22:12 | |
| steveg | #topic use cases - service chaining | 22:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "use cases - service chaining (Meeting topic: telcowg)" | 22:13 | |
| steveg | ybabenko took an action to provide a service chaining use case for us | 22:13 |
| steveg | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kKIqu2ipN6 | 22:13 |
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| steveg | this is currently recorded in the above etherpad | 22:13 |
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| ijw | sorry, connection issue | 22:14 |
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| steveg | let me circle back to use cases in a second though, i wanted to skip ahead to check up on current design/impl items while ijw is still available | 22:14 |
| steveg | #topic design and implementation | 22:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "design and implementation (Meeting topic: telcowg)" | 22:14 | |
| steveg | ijw, had a couple of specs approved of note just before the holiday season | 22:15 |
| steveg | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/nfv-vlan-trunks | 22:15 |
| steveg | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/mtu-selection-and-advertisement | 22:15 |
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| steveg | the question i wanted to pose is whether there is any implementation to review at this point in time | 22:15 |
| ijw | Not yet. | 22:16 |
| ijw | It'll get done in stages and it probably won't be me doing all of it, but our lot should take care of it | 22:16 |
| dneary | vkmc, I guess I as early... | 22:16 |
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| ijw | I'll try and get a first bit up in the next week or so (particularly if I can find someone who actually understands Neutron DB migrations, cos that's changed quite a bit since the last time I workd with it) | 22:16 |
| steveg | #info VLAN trunking and MTU advertisement/selection specs approved - implementation starting up atm | 22:16 |
| steveg | ijw, no problem - thanks for the update | 22:17 |
| steveg | the other item in the etherpad i wanted to highlight again was port mirroring... | 22:17 |
| ijw | Was thinking, in both cases, that I'd do DB, then API, then default behaviour (since they both have fallback behaviour for unsupported plugins) and then the hard bit in ML2 | 22:17 |
| steveg | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/port-mirroring | 22:17 |
| steveg | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/96149/ | 22:17 |
| steveg | it's unclear to me how much concern there is within the group about the above spec, it's been on our list for a fair while | 22:18 |
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| steveg | but there has been a lot of back and forth on the spec review about this | 22:18 |
| ijw | Architecturally I'm not a fan of the approach that the guys chose, but that aside, they basically put that spec up far too close to the review deadline and it unfortunately got canned. | 22:18 |
| steveg | ultimately trending towards debate over whether port mirroring belongs in core neutron or as an external service | 22:18 |
| steveg | yeah agree | 22:18 |
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| ijw | Now, the proposal is that it gets implemented in Stackforge - but. | 22:18 |
| steveg | i think the naming also set it up for this outcome | 22:18 |
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| steveg | (im referring to it as port mirroring but the proposal is actually tap-as-a-service) | 22:19 |
| SridharRamaswamy | ijw: question - "hard bit in ML2" == the ovs magic to setup the trunk ports ? | 22:19 |
| ijw | That's kind of fine from the perspective of the API it needs, but, even with an OVS implementation, you'd need to do *something* to the OVS driver to support port mirroring, and that's not easily done without changing the Neutron code to add a feature. Kyle seems to think that's OK, I'm not sure it would actually be accepted if we tried it | 22:19 |
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| steveg | #info port mirroring/tap-as-a-service spec not approved for kilo, questions about implementation outstanding and whether functionality belongs in neutron core or as an external advanced service project | 22:20 |
| ijw | SridharRamaswamy: VLANs? Read the spec, it doesn't affect behaviour, just reports it. You have to determine if all your drivers support VLAN trunking (OVS doesn't - use Linuxbridge instead) | 22:20 |
| steveg | right | 22:20 |
| SridharRamaswamy | ijw: yeah, for vlan-trunk. i'll check back on the trunk support in LB. thanks | 22:21 |
| ijw | The spec leaves the door open to modifying the OVS driver to support trunking but doesn't actually make that change - because it's hard and of questionable value when LB just works | 22:21 |
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| ijw | steveg: I'd say port mirroring is probably not on the cards for Kilo even as an extended service, but on the other hand it might be worth our time to investigate what we would actually need to change to make it possible | 22:22 |
| steveg | yeah | 22:22 |
| steveg | i think im more interested in that side of it | 22:22 |
| steveg | "ok it's an extended service, what does that actually mean practically" | 22:22 |
| steveg | as you point out GBP team are no doubt hitting some of these issues first | 22:22 |
| ijw | A different sort of vif-plug might be all we'd need (attach a second interface to the same port and get a mirrored versino of the traffic, e.g.) so that an self-contained service could be used with it | 22:22 |
| * ijw prefers the idea of services as independent processes with independent HTTP endpoints, which is not the current Neutron thinking with regards to the existing advanced services at the moment | 22:23 | |
| ijw | But in this instance it might be possible with some minimal changes to core | 22:23 |
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| steveg | let's pick this up when it comes around again | 22:25 |
| ijw | Can we also touch on cloud-edge stuff for a moment | 22:25 |
| ijw | ? | 22:25 |
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| steveg | sure | 22:25 |
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| steveg | then i want to loop back to use cases and the action item i didn't complete | 22:25 |
| steveg | ;) | 22:25 |
| ijw | Just a quick report on two fronts - firstly, the MPLS and edge networking proposals both stalled, so if they happen they'll be in stackforge and there's no sign of that for either right now | 22:26 |
| steveg | #info MPLS and edge networking proposals both stalled, so if they happen they'll be in stackforge and there's no sign of that for either right now | 22:26 |
| ijw | And secondly, there's now an L2Gateway team - their definition of L2 gateway is a programmable virtual-network-to-outside gateway, probably initially for VLANs only - and that's meeting on Mondays, there's another one next week | 22:26 |
| steveg | #info recently formed L2Gateway team - definition of L2 gateway is a programmable virtual-network-to-outside gateway, probably initially for VLANs only - and that's meeting on Mondays, there's another one next week | 22:27 |
| steveg | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/L2Gateway | 22:27 |
| steveg | including an API spec proposal by the looks | 22:27 |
| ijw | I would argue that the second is another sub-case of the first, personally, and we should take a co-ordinated approach. The L2GW guys just want something that works and have a moderate-to-large API tailored very specifically to their mental model of devices doing the gatewaying. It may be possible to resolve the two but they're sceptical of doing anything that gets in the path of a straightforward implementation, which is fair | 22:28 |
| ijw | in its way | 22:28 |
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| ijw | Plan is to put down the use cases on the wiki for L2 gateways of all types so that we can at least say what we are addressing and what we are not addressing with an initial release | 22:28 |
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| ijw | ... all done on that now, use case away ;) | 22:29 |
| SridharRamaswamy | ijw: fyi, hanif is the process of creating a stackforge project for mpls-vpn | 22:29 |
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| steveg | #info need to consolidate use cases for L2 gateways of all types so that at least which are/aren't being addressed can be stated | 22:30 |
| SridharRamaswamy | ^is in the process of^ | 22:30 |
| steveg | #info mpls-vpn stackforge project in the process of being created | 22:30 |
| ijw | SridharRamaswamy: cheers | 22:30 |
| steveg | ok | 22:31 |
| steveg | #topic use cases | 22:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "use cases (Meeting topic: telcowg)" | 22:31 | |
| ijw | SridharRamaswamy: as a service plugin or an independent process? | 22:31 |
| steveg | so the action item, which i did not complete, was to email out to kick off discussion about picking a use case to do a more in depth review of | 22:31 |
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| steveg | we have a couple to choose from at the moment | 22:31 |
| SridharRamaswamy | ijw: i believe they are leaning towards service plugin | 22:31 |
| SridharRamaswamy | again it is early in the discussion | 22:31 |
| SridharRamaswamy | some of these are discussed in the vpnaas weekly irc | 22:32 |
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| steveg | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TelcoWorkingGroup/UseCases#VPN_Instantiation | 22:32 |
| steveg | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TelcoWorkingGroup/UseCases#Session_Border_Controller | 22:32 |
| steveg | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TelcoWorkingGroup/UseCases#Session_Border_Controller | 22:32 |
| steveg | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TelcoWorkingGroup/UseCases#Virtual_IMS_Core | 22:32 |
| steveg | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TelcoWorkingGroup/UseCases#Access_to_physical_network_resources | 22:32 |
| steveg | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TelcoWorkingGroup/UseCases#Security_Segregation_.28Placement_Zones.29 | 22:32 |
| steveg | and the two drafts referred to earlier | 22:33 |
| steveg | i propose to send out a brief survey monkey to the list and we select one to review at next week's meeting in detail | 22:33 |
| steveg | and try and drag out some requirements based on it | 22:33 |
| steveg | i will take silence as yes steve take that action item | 22:34 |
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| steveg | #action steveg to send out a brief survey monkey to the list and we select one to review at next week's meeting in detail | 22:35 |
| steveg | #topic ops summit | 22:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ops summit (Meeting topic: telcowg)" | 22:35 | |
| steveg | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PHL-ops-meetup | 22:35 |
| steveg | #undo | 22:35 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0x3d6ab90> | 22:35 |
| steveg | #undo | 22:35 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x3d2ead0> | 22:35 |
| steveg | #topic ops midcycle meetup | 22:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ops midcycle meetup (Meeting topic: telcowg)" | 22:35 | |
| steveg | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PHL-ops-meetup | 22:35 |
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| amitry | +2 | 22:36 |
| steveg | i wanted to highlight that comcast are hosting the operators midcycle meetup in philadelphia | 22:36 |
| steveg | on march 9-10 | 22:36 |
| steveg | if there is interest from the group i would like to have a f2f session there | 22:36 |
| amitry | I think that would be great | 22:36 |
| steveg | for those not familiar this is an opportunity for openstack operators in general to get together and discuss their needs, use of openstack, share solutions etc | 22:36 |
| cloudon | +1 | 22:36 |
| amitry | I already know several telco/sp that ate attending | 22:37 |
| steveg | so as well as a potential telco session | 22:37 |
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| steveg | there are many others that would also likely be of interest | 22:37 |
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| steveg | i would suggest reviewing the etherpad i linked above to get a feel for potential topics | 22:37 |
| margaret__ | I think a F2F would be great | 22:37 |
| steveg | fifieldt_ from the foundation is currently setting things up, i would expect to see more details about it via the operators list in the near future | 22:37 |
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| amitry | I am coordinating with fifieldt_ , I will mention it as well | 22:38 |
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| steveg | for anyone not aware this is the signup for the mailing list i am referring to | 22:39 |
| steveg | #link http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators | 22:39 |
| steveg | yeah, i think it's a great opportunity | 22:39 |
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| steveg | we should also think about framing how we would like to make use of that time | 22:39 |
| steveg | to me it would seem beneficial to again pick some use cases to drill down on | 22:39 |
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| steveg | and also have some time split off to discuss what's working/what isn't and take a general checkpoint on how people feel about the group and the way it works | 22:40 |
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| steveg | any thoughts as to the above? | 22:42 |
| margaret__ | use cases and how this group is working are good F2F topics | 22:42 |
| margaret__ | But how many of the folks who participate in this are attending? - if only like 5%... | 22:43 |
| amitry | maybe add outreach? getting the right groups involved as well | 22:43 |
| steveg | #info Opportunity for F2F at operators mid-cycle meetup - potential topics are use cases, how the group is/isn't working, outreach | 22:44 |
| steveg | #info Need to determine how many Telco WG participants are attending | 22:44 |
| steveg | margaret__, agreed - and i dont have a clear picture on that | 22:44 |
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| steveg | any ideas as to how to ascertain other than a broad email asking how many are planning to attend, or would plan to attend if there was a telco session? | 22:46 |
| margaret__ | Is there a way to take a survey using survey monkey on attendance and send this to the mailing list? | 22:46 |
| cloudon | is attendance restricted to operators? | 22:46 |
| amitry | I can cross reference the signup lists and the telcowg | 22:47 |
| amitry | of course that will only show those who have signed up so far | 22:47 |
| amitry | cloudon: no | 22:47 |
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| steveg | amitry, is signup actually open atm? | 22:48 |
| amitry | I don't think tom sent it out yet, should go live this week | 22:48 |
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| amitry | we have a few details to sort out | 22:49 |
| steveg | yeah i think it was still pending | 22:49 |
| steveg | expect to see an eventbrite link or other instructions on the M/L | 22:50 |
| amitry | correct | 22:50 |
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| steveg | i think cross referencing them is as accurate a read of who is actually going to show up as we will get | 22:50 |
| amitry | ok, I will take that action item and can update here | 22:50 |
| steveg | can highlight to the group via email though | 22:50 |
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| amitry | definitely | 22:50 |
| steveg | #action amitry to cross reference ops mid-cycle signups with telco wg participants to determine crossover | 22:51 |
| steveg | thanks for that | 22:51 |
| steveg | #topic other discussion | 22:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "other discussion (Meeting topic: telcowg)" | 22:51 | |
| steveg | did anyone have anything else they wanted to bring up? | 22:51 |
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| steveg | barrett1, it isn't reflected in the wiki but i believe you are holding an ecosystem and collateral meeting tomorrow? | 22:52 |
| * steveg may have his wires crossed, checking calendar | 22:52 | |
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| steveg | indeed | 22:52 |
| steveg | #info Ecosystem and Collateral Meeting 12 PM US EST / 9 AM US PST January 8th - Access: (888) 875-9370, Bridge: 3; PC: 7053780 | 22:53 |
| steveg | did anyone have anything else they wish to raise today? | 22:53 |
| amitry | nothing else from, thanks steveg | 22:54 |
| amitry | I have to drop | 22:54 |
| margaret__ | silence mean no.. | 22:54 |
| steveg | i also have to run :) | 22:54 |
| margaret__ | by | 22:54 |
| margaret__ | bye | 22:54 |
| steveg | ok thanks all for your time and participation | 22:54 |
| steveg | #endmeeting | 22:54 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:54 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jan 7 22:54:26 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:54 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/telcowg/2015/telcowg.2015-01-07-22.00.html | 22:54 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/telcowg/2015/telcowg.2015-01-07-22.00.txt | 22:54 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/telcowg/2015/telcowg.2015-01-07-22.00.log.html | 22:54 |
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