Tuesday, 2015-01-06

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anteaya#startmeeting third-party08:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jan  6 08:00:01 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.08:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.08:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)"08:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'third_party'08:00
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anteayaanyone else here for the third party meeting?08:00
anteayahow are you trinaths?08:00
trinathsDoing good. thank you .. :)08:01
trinathsmy first meeting in 201508:01
trinathsHappy New Year  all08:01
anteayawhat shall we talk about, trinaths?08:02
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jyusohi anteaya,hi everyone.sorry I'm late:)08:02
anteayajyuso: hello, not to worry08:02
anteayawe are just deciding what to talk about08:02
anteayajyuso: any thoughts?08:02
trinathsI'm Currently working on the CI - an upgrade process.08:03
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anteayatrinaths: great08:03
anteayahow is that going?08:03
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trinathsincorporating upgraded CRD (our service code) to the CI08:04
trinathswe have less attendance today ?? I guess08:05
anteayawe are just coming back from holidays for some08:05
anteayaand russia is on holidays from the 1 to the 1208:05
anteayathe first week back after a break is sometimes tough for people08:05
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anteayaso what do you want to accomplish this week, regarding third party08:06
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trinathsmy self, had a TODO here, [1] Upgrade CRD service to 2 nodes of CI and [2] Enabled two more nodes for neutron-fwaas with updated CRD service - requirement for my FWaaS Plugin.08:09
anteayaI'm taking my cue from you, so do speak up08:09
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trinathsit takes some time for me to type08:09
anteayaah I see08:09
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anteayahow is step 1 coming along?08:09
trinathsone server just now completed, so need to test with sandbox, and then divert to neutron.08:10
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trinathswill clone the server-1 to server-2 so both share the task08:10
anteayaI'm not sure you knew but we have a dedicated sandbox for ci08:10
jyusotrinaths: May I ask a question about your step 1?08:11
trinathsoh! I'm not aware of this. How is this different from normal sandbox08:11
trinathsplease go ahead.08:11
anteaya#link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-dev/ci-sandbox/08:11
trinathsoh okay. Will use this.08:11
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anteayathank you08:12
anteayait hopefully will be less shocking for new devs using sandbox to practice the contributor's workflow to have fewer ci systems report on all their patches08:12
anteayajyuso: do ask your question of trinaths08:13
jyusotrinaths: If we create a 2 node CI task.How did you create project and collect logst?I'm confused about how to collect logs in multi node environment.08:13
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trinathsjyuso: in my setup jenkins + gearman + zuul gives jobs to the registered nodes.08:15
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trinathsregarding posting of logs, I have written a custom script to upload the logs to the freescale hosted server in a specific location. The same is configured in Zuul and is posted as comment in gerrit.08:16
anteayajyuso: any reply?08:17
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trinathsjyuso: Okay with the reply ? do u need more clarification08:18
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jyusotrinaths:Yes.Thanks for your reply.I think it is very helpful.08:19
anteayawhat else shall we discuss?08:21
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trinathsno doubts from my end for now .. :)08:24
anteayaanything else you want to accomplish08:25
anteayaperhaps contributing back to infra?08:25
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jyusoanteaya:Yes.If I want to do some jobs of infra,what could I do then?08:31
anteayathanks jyuso08:31
anteayawell to start you could review patches08:31
anteayahave you ever reviewed any openstack patches before?08:31
jyusoanteaya: I'm planning to wirte some Tempest case of Ceilometer after our CI is online:)08:32
anteayaso reviewing some tempest patches would be a good place to start08:32
anteayaso you can learn what the tempest team likes to see in new tempest code08:32
anteayadoes that make sense?08:32
jyusoanteaya: OK,thanks for your advice:)08:33
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anteayajyuso: have you reviewed any openstack patches before?08:33
jyusoanteaya: not yet08:33
anteayaokay good to know08:33
jyusoanteaya: I just do deploy job08:33
jyusoanteaya: and write some Tempest cases08:34
anteayahere is a good place to start learning how to review patches08:34
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anteaya#link http://anteaya.info/blog/2013/03/21/reviewing-an-openstack-patch/08:34
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anteayasome people think they have to know everything about the code base before they review any patches08:35
anteayawhen in actual fact, learning how to give a good review helps you to learn the code08:35
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anteayaas well as how to spot well written code as opposed to poorly written code08:35
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anteayathese are all the open tempest patches08:37
anteaya#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/tempest,n,z08:37
anteayaso start anywhere and start to look at them08:37
anteayalook for patterns08:37
anteayaread what other reviewers have said08:37
anteayathese people are the tempest core reviewers08:38
anteaya#link https://review.openstack.org/#/admin/groups/42,members08:38
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anteayaread what they say about patches08:38
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anteayajust reading core reviewer comments on patches for 2 weeks will be a great use of your time08:39
anteayathough you will think it won't08:39
anteayaonce you feel you have something to offer, even if it is just a question, post it as a comment on a patch08:39
anteayayou start to get feedback on your reviewing style08:40
anteayaand everyone benefits08:40
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anteayajyuso: does that make sense?08:40
jyusoanteaya: thank you for your patience:)08:40
jyusoanteaya: yes08:40
anteayamy pleasure08:40
jyusoanteaya: I'm reading your blog.so reply is a bit slow.sorry:)08:41
anteayahappy to take the time to support someone contributing back08:41
anteayajyuso: ah08:41
anteayano problem, I understand08:41
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trinathsdo we have our own pypi ?08:51
anteayawe had a mirror of pypi but got rid of it08:52
anteaya#link http://pypi.openstack.org/08:52
anteayaso the server is still up but no content08:52
trinathsthen, in the requirements of the projects, there some version, >=1.1.0 like that, which are not atleast in pypi.python.org.08:53
anteayado you have an example?08:53
trinathsin keystone, its oslo.db>=1.1.0 but in pypi.python.org, its 1.0.3 https://pypi.python.org/pypi/oslo.db08:54
trinathswhere to get this >=1.1.0 version ?08:54
anteayafirst I have to confirm what you are seeing in keystone08:55
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anteaya#link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/keystone/tree/requirements.txt#n2408:56
anteayaI see it08:56
anteayajhesketh: you about?08:56
trinathspypi.openstack.org is empty.08:56
anteayayes it is08:56
trinathspypi.python.org has an lesser version. any idea on how to proceed on the same08:56
trinathsi mean where to find the applicable/required version08:57
anteayaolso.db has a 1.3.0 version, a 1.2.0 version, a 1.1.0 version: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/oslo.db/08:57
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anteayaand you are correct these versions are not on pypi.python.org08:58
anteayaso in short I don't know yet, but I will find out08:58
anteayathis is a good question, thanks trinaths08:59
trinathsokay, so there is no need at all for querying pip for installaing these packages08:59
anteayaI don't know08:59
anteayatime to wrap up08:59
trinathsevery time, in my CI, I see that the packages in requirements.txt are instaled with pip08:59
anteayathanks for your attendance08:59
anteayatrinaths: I will find out08:59
anteayasee you next week09:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"09:00
jheskethanteaya: yep?09:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jan  6 09:00:07 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)09:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-01-06-08.00.html09:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-01-06-08.00.txt09:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-01-06-08.00.log.html09:00
trinathsthanks anteaya09:00
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irenabI am here13:55
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n0ano#startmeeting gantt15:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jan  6 15:00:20 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gantt)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'gantt'15:00
n0anoanyone here to talk about the scheduler?15:00
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alex_xuwelcome back everyone :)15:01
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n0anolet's begin15:01
jaypipesthx, you too alex_xu15:01
n0ano#topic status of cleanup work15:01
*** openstack changes topic to "status of cleanup work (Meeting topic: gantt)"15:01
* bauzas still thinks about his vacations... :(15:01
* alex_xu is not leave15:01
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n0anoas we left things, we're in pretty good shape, that table at:15:02
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bauzasso we'll need 2 exceptions15:02
n0anoshows almost all the specs are approved expcet for the resoure object model & DB access for scheduler filters15:03
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n0anobauzas, indeed15:03
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n0anounfortunately, the exception process isn't defined yet, I assume we'll do that at the nova meeting this week15:03
bauzaswe need to wait formal clarification about the process then15:03
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edleafeNow that everyone's back, feedback on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/138444/ would help while we iron out the exception process15:04
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n0anowe'll certain push for our 2 exceptions, I don't think we'll have a problem15:04
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bauzasedleafe: I'm not forgetting you ;)15:04
bauzasedleafe: that said, I have lots of comments to do, starting by the commit msg15:04
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jaypipesedleafe: I already left my major comment about that...15:05
* bauzas readed too fast "I already lifted my major"...15:05
edleafejaypipes: but I re-wrote it after, remember?15:05
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jaypipesbtw, guys, I have most of the resource-objects coding done. just been waiting on a patch from ndipanov/sahid to land around numa limit topology objects.15:05
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jaypipesedleafe: ah, sorry ed15:06
edleafejaypipes: I didn15:06
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n0anojaypipes, coding before the spec is approved, a little gutsy isn't that?15:06
edleafejaypipes: I didn't ignore your comments. :)15:06
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jaypipesn0ano: nope. it was essential to show people the PoC code for the blueprint during the spec review process.15:07
bauzasn0ano: jaypipes likes to live in a dangerous way :)15:07
jaypipesn0ano: also ironed out a few things in the spec while coding.15:07
n0anoWFM, I just hope the spec review doesn't require a major rewrite15:07
bauzaswe all hope this15:07
PaulMurrayWhat's WFM - world food markets?15:08
jaypipesn0ano: hey, what's one more when there's been like 12 already? ;P15:08
n0anojaypipes, so the spec hasn't been updated since mid-Dec, do you plan an update this week?15:08
lxsliPaulMurray: works for me15:08
n0anoPaulMurray, WFM = works for me15:08
* PaulMurray is just not down with the kids15:09
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* n0ano refuses to act his age15:09
* bauzas gladly assuming his age15:09
bauzasprovided I'm not shaving my beard...15:10
n0anoanyway, jaypipes spec update?15:10
bauzasanyway, we're diverting, are we ?15:10
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n0anohmm, jaypipes must be away, so instead...15:11
n0anoedleafe, need any help on your spec other than reviews?15:11
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PaulMurrayedleafe, I will review later today15:11
bauzasedleafe: count me in too15:11
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n0anoedleafe, I should be able to add a voice15:12
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* n0ano is pulled in too many directions15:12
edleafen0ano: No, reviews would be a good start15:12
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n0anoall - if we can get a handfull of reviews before this Thurs that will probably help the exception request - no pressure here :-)15:13
bauzaseh :)15:13
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jaypipesn0ano: eh, sorry, three discussions going at once.15:14
n0anojaypipes, I figured, just curious about when the resource objest spec will be updated15:14
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jaypipesn0ano: it needs reviewed, not updated. :)15:15
jaypipesn0ano: it was the code that is waiting on sahid.15:15
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n0anojaypipes, that's even better, I was afraid it needed to change, reviews we can do15:16
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n0ano#action all to review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/127609/ & https://review.openstack.org/#/c/138444/15:17
* bauzas wonders if he can +1 himself15:18
n0anonot sure my action worked but we all know what I meant15:18
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edleafebauzas: sounds naughty15:18
n0anoI think that's enough on the specs for now15:18
n0ano#topic opens15:18
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n0anoanything else anyone wants to discuss15:19
PaulMurrayn0ano, two things15:19
n0anoPaulMurray, thing 1?15:19
PaulMurrayn0ano, first - I am doing the compute node object in RT15:19
bauzasPaulMurray: feel free to CC me on your patches15:19
bauzasPaulMurray: I may have missed some15:19
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PaulMurrayn0ano, started last day before xmas and picked back up yesterday - may come for ideas as I go15:20
PaulMurraybauzas, nothing pushed up yet15:20
bauzasoh ok15:20
PaulMurraybauzas, nearly15:20
PaulMurrayn0ano, thing 215:20
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n0anoPaulMurray, ping us at will, we'll be glad to help15:20
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PaulMurrayn0ano, is it too early to consider what we want to talk about at the mid-cycle15:20
PaulMurrayand who's going15:21
bauzaswell, at least do we know who's going ?15:21
PaulMurrayI am15:21
bauzasso, I'm in15:21
edleafeI'll be there15:21
jaypipesI'll be there as well.15:21
n0anoPaulMurray, good question, I think a little early on what to talk about, let's see what happens with our exceptions and then progress15:21
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n0anoI expect to be there15:21
bauzasn0ano: violent agreemen,t15:21
PaulMurrayn0ano, something to think about as we go though15:22
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n0anoPaulMurray, +115:22
n0anoI'll add it to the agenda, we can start talking about subject next week and finalize shortly before the mid-cycle15:22
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bauzaswell, we probably need to wait for the midcycle etherpad15:23
bauzasbecause it's not even discussed at the Nova level15:23
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bauzasso we need to see which topics will come up15:23
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bauzaswe just need to make sure we can have proper timing for discussing related topics15:23
bauzasbut I'm not that worried15:23
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n0anobauzas, we can think/discuss about scheduler issues before hand, nothing concrete until things like the etherpad are up15:24
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bauzashonestly, I think we'll reasonably discuss about our progress during midcycle15:24
bauzasmost of the specs have been approved15:24
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PaulMurrayI think we are pretty clear on what we are doing now, and the mid cycle is really for getting the end of the cycle lined up15:25
bauzasbut I don't think we'll discuss about the split itself15:25
bauzasPaulMurray: +115:25
PaulMurraybut I would welcome the chance for side discussions on forward looking things15:25
n0anoassuming we are making good progress on implementing the tasks we can start to think about the split in L and beyond15:25
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n0anoanything else for today?15:26
bauzasnot from my side15:26
PaulMurrayI'm done15:26
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edleafeme too15:26
* bauzas just saw that Ironic midcycle will be 5 min away from home, hurrah15:26
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alex_xunothing from me15:27
n0anothen, just to re-iterate, review everyone and we'll talk again next week15:27
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:27
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jan  6 15:27:45 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:27
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-01-06-15.00.html15:27
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-01-06-15.00.txt15:27
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-01-06-15.00.log.html15:27
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n0anobauzas, not sure about ironic timing, won't you be in the US then?15:28
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bauzasn0ano: nope, that's week after15:28
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n0anobauzas, perfect15:28
bauzasn0ano: so I should be able to attend both15:28
n0anoI don't think I can talk my management into another international trip so soon :-(15:29
bauzasI can proxy your voice thou15:29
n0anothat works15:29
bauzasI don't have so much interest in Ironic, but the opportunity is there15:30
n0anokeep an eye on them, I think they will have scheduler related issues that we will have to address15:30
bauzasand that's really 10 mins by car...15:30
bauzasat least the snow arrived, so they won't be disappointed :)15:31
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primeministerp#startmeeting hyper-v16:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Jan  6 16:01:47 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is primeministerp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.16:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: hyper-v)"16:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'hyper_v'16:01
primeministerpalexpilotti: hey there16:02
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alexpilottiprimeministerp: hey there16:02
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primeministerp#topic #blueprint status16:03
*** openstack changes topic to "#blueprint status (Meeting topic: hyper-v)"16:03
primeministerpalexpilotti: care to give a quick update of where things are16:04
alexpilottiso, we have a medium BP in pole position16:04
alexpilottiall the rest are on “low”:16:04
alexpilotti#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/hyper-v-generation-2-vms16:04
alexpilotti#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/hyper-v-ovs-vif16:04
alexpilotti#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/hyper-v-remotefx16:05
alexpilotti#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/hyper-v-test-refactoring16:05
alexpilotti#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/hyper-v-vnic-hot-plug16:05
alexpilotti#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/hyperv-serial-ports16:05
alexpilotti#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/keypair-x509-certificates16:05
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alexpilottiall have been implemented, with some simplifying changes to be done on hyper-v-generation-2-vms and hyper-v-remotefx16:06
alexpilottidiscussed today on the Nova channel16:06
primeministerpalexpilotti: good work16:06
alexpilottifor the rest we’re just waiting for reviews16:07
alexpilottimost of hyper-v-test-refactoring merged16:07
alexpilottibut there are still 5 patches that need reviews16:07
primeministerpalexpilotti: so we're again inthe usual pattern of holding until key pieces get reviewed16:08
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alexpilottiyes, usual code-wait-panic-postpone-to-next-cycle pattern :-D16:08
primeministerpalexpilotti: ok16:08
primeministerpalexpilotti: bugs it is16:09
primeministerp#topic bugs!16:09
*** openstack changes topic to "bugs! (Meeting topic: hyper-v)"16:09
primeministerpalexpilotti: openbugs?16:09
alexpilottiwe’re ranking definitely well on the bugs side16:09
alexpilottinothing new ATM, except an iSCSI issue on HP storage16:10
alexpilottisagar will send a patch16:10
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alexpilottiwhich is great, as we need access to teh HP storage to test it16:10
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primeministerpalexpilotti: do we need to reach out to the hp friends to get access?16:11
alexpilottinot necessarily16:11
primeministerpalexpilotti: are they going to test it for us?16:11
alexpilottithe issue is simply related to teh fact that their storage needs CHAP credentials during portal login16:12
alexpilottiunlike others that need them on target attach only16:12
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alexpilottiit’s a very simple patch16:12
alexpilottinot affecting other iSCSI targets16:12
primeministerpalexpilotti: gotcha16:13
alexpilottifor the rest as usual our bug fixes are just waiting reviews16:13
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alexpilottiall of them have been backported in the downstream repos16:13
primeministerpalexpilotti: ok16:13
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alexpilottiand backported to Juno as well16:13
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primeministerpgood to know16:14
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primeministerp#topic ci16:15
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primeministerpfew things to add16:15
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primeministerpeveryone is back after holiday16:15
primeministerpwe've got lots of infrastructure to stand up16:16
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primeministerphoping w/ that we'll get more testing upstream16:16
primeministerpalexpilotti: that's all i have for today16:17
primeministerpalexpilotti: anything else?16:17
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alexpilottithat’s all for me as well!16:17
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"16:17
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jan  6 16:17:57 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)16:17
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2015/hyper_v.2015-01-06-16.01.html16:18
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2015/hyper_v.2015-01-06-16.01.txt16:18
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gyeetopol, sorry about the Steelers18:01
stevemaris morganfainberg around?18:01
stevemarping for meeting dolphm, ayoung, bknudson, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, nkinder, lloydm, shrekuma, ksavich, hrybacki, rharwood, grantbow, vdreamarkitex, raildo, rodrigods, amakarov, ajayaa, hogepodge, breton, lhcheng, nonameentername, samuelms, htruta, amolock18:01
topolgyee... face palm :-)18:01
stevemarthere you are :)18:01
rodrigodshappy 2015 you all :)18:02
gyeetopol, as a suffering browns fan, I want to extend my warmest welcome to you to the "off season"18:02
morganfainbergstevemar, was looking at the meeting agenda18:02
* ayoung here18:02
morganfainberg#startmeeting Keystone18:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Jan  6 18:02:18 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is morganfainberg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:02
stevemarlink https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting18:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Keystone)"18:02
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:02
morganfainberg#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting18:02
topolgyee, LOL. enjoy rubbing it in!18:02
morganfainbergwe'll come back to henrynash's stuff at the end (since henry is on vacation)18:02
morganfainbergwelcome to 2015.18:03
morganfainberglets keep things moving in the right direction, and we'll be up on the milestone 2 in no-time18:03
morganfainberg#topic Migration path for R/W LDAP spec18:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Migration path for R/W LDAP spec (Meeting topic: Keystone)"18:03
morganfainbergjorge_munoz, o/18:04
morganfainberg#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/140175/18:04
ayoungWho needs R/W LDAP?  Can we kill it?18:04
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morganfainbergayoung, not likely18:04
bknudsonjust get rid of it18:04
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morganfainbergjoesavak, is jorge_munoz here?18:04
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dolphmlbragstad: ^18:05
joesavakI think so - let me ping him18:05
* topol Im worried ayoung has dimensia setting in18:05
lbragstadhe is18:05
lbragstadhe is typing18:05
morganfainberghehe ok18:05
ayoungtopol, multiple dimensions18:05
jorge_munozYes, I wanted to ask how much implementation detail needs to be in the spec for the new schema. Also, wanted to get some feed back on the downgrade path.18:05
ayoung"new schema"  meaning what?  We should not be specifying a schema18:05
gyeewe generally suck at downgrade18:05
ayoungLDAP is written to work with existing schemas.  I would say more like:18:06
ayoung"base level assumptions of schema..."18:06
morganfainbergthe current r/w ldap is bad and probably should be removed. however there is a desire to keep r/w ldap from a few sources.18:06
dolphmjorge_munoz: avoid implementation detail in the spec, in general, otherwise +1 for ayoung18:06
* ayoung reads spec18:07
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ayoungjorge_munoz, jorge_munoz  So...why LDAP?  Is it the replication story that you need?18:08
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dolphmmorganfainberg: are all those sources represented here right now?18:08
morganfainbergdolphm, should be.18:09
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morganfainbergdolphm, i have been chasing down who else uses it.18:09
ayoungNote that I am not categorically against LDAP as a backend, just that the number of Orgs  requesting support for it has dropped to 1.18:09
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jorge_munoz@ayoung We have an identity system that uses an LDAP backend for both read and writes.18:09
ayoungI kindof like LDAP for assignments, but can't personally justify the time it takes to support it.18:09
morganfainbergdolphm, there were more at one point, but i can't get anyone to respond now. so18:09
morganfainbergdolphm, it'd be what rackspace is asking for.18:09
bknudsonuse your ldap tools to update your ldap directory18:10
bknudsonwe shouldn't have to provide a new tool for doing ldap updates18:10
dolphmmorganfainberg: i'm not sure it's what rackspace needs at all, but i could be too far out of the loop18:10
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morganfainbergdolphm, at this point, that spec is what i have to go on.18:10
ayoungbknudson, replace LDAP with SQL in that statement and see how much it makes you shudder18:10
morganfainbergdolphm, so, i'm willing to let jorge_munoz and joesavak make the case18:11
joesavakayoung - LDAP due to service level agreement with vendor, replication rules that we have, and the current integrations we have with it.18:11
bknudsonit's common to have applications define their own sql schema.18:11
bknudsonit's also not very smart18:11
gyeejorge_munoz, in light of the proposed project reform (http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20141202-project-structure-reform-spec.html), its a good time to test the new water with this thing :)18:11
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morganfainberggyee, negative18:11
gyeehey, if we are going to separate out IdP from Keystone, why now?18:11
morganfainberggyee, that would be the equivalent of writing their own keystone afaik18:11
morganfainberggyee, which is not what is being proposed here18:12
gyeehell yeah18:12
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ayoungso Identity is for users, but I understood Rack to need Assignment support as well, right?18:12
morganfainberggyee, that is a different bit of work, first off we need the split - not "go write your own keystone to get a split"18:12
dolphmjoesavak: jorge_munoz: is there anyone else interested in using the same architecture as rackspace?18:12
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dolphmjoesavak: jorge_munoz: i'm wondering if rackspace's solution should be open source, but perhaps not upstream / maintained by keystone core18:13
morganfainberggyee, slightly different. don't force a complete re-write of keystone to get the split, the split should happen independently18:13
gyeebut this is a lot of rewrite as is18:13
gyeejust saying18:14
morganfainberggyee, the split should occur *anyway*. please take that off the table as part of this dicussion18:14
gyeeanyway, I don't have a problem either way18:14
morganfainbergkeep this focused on r/w ldap, support of it going forward.18:14
jorge_munoz@dolphm It could be but having a cleaner implementation give better option of deployers18:14
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joesavakdolphm - heard from a few large customers that they are interested in it for their private cloud deploys. Sit on top of exisitng LDAP and not use federation as they don't have ADFS or consider it too c omplex.18:14
ayoungjorge_munoz, and joesavak can you guys get some feedback from the operators and other users who else is interested in LDAP support for Assignments18:15
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bknudsonif they have existing ldap then that's not r/w ldap18:15
ayoungbknudson, the Rack rational is replication, which is what CERN was using it for as well18:15
ayoungLDAP has a better multi-site story than MySQL18:16
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bknudsonthen they should pick a database that supports it better18:16
morganfainbergayoung, to a very limited scale without insane topology that rivals sql in complexity and risk18:16
ayoungmorganfainberg, LDAP as a domain controller (jhosts, hierarchical) is very well trodden territory18:17
morganfainbergldap and sql have different scale concerns, but both are largely solved.18:17
ayoungjhost-> just hosts18:17
jorge_munoz@ayoung Sure, we can do some in inquiries on who would be a consumer of the LDAP drivers.18:17
morganfainbergayoung, it's bad when you get to 10-20 sites, your topoligy for replication is as complex/more risky per-addtion/change to the layout [not data] as SQL18:17
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morganfainbergit's all bad for unified replication.18:18
bknudsonso we're talking about replacing the current LDAP implementation with a new one? (that's going to be awesome)18:18
ayoungjorge_munoz, it sounds like the biggest thing you are looking for is upgrade/downgrade support, which is likely to be Directory Server specific.18:18
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ayoungwhat are you guys using?18:18
ayoungif you care to share...18:18
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jorge_munozWe want to target 38918:18
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ayoungmorganfainberg, I think perhaps out-of-tree makes sense for this effort18:19
ayoungwould a keystoneldap project make sense?18:19
bknudsonif this is out-of-tree do we keep the old ldap?18:19
ayoungbknudson, I think maybe we pare it down to RO Identity18:20
morganfainbergbknudson, i'm willing to do ML/survey etc work to find out if we can deprecate r/w ldap18:20
morganfainbergwell, deprecate ldap assignment, and separately r/w ldap identity18:20
jorge_munozThere might still be users who want to user their own schmea18:20
bknudsonthat sounds great18:20
morganfainbergtwo different concerns18:20
ayoungjorge_munoz, joesavak you guys need multiple domains with R/W LDAP Assignement?18:20
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lbragstadso it sounds like the best option here would be to build this out of the keystone tree18:21
lbragstadso possibly stackforge?18:21
joesavakagree with Jorge - the backend schema for LDAP should be implementor choice.18:21
morganfainbergayoung, bknudson, if we ask this to go out of tree, short of saying "go write your own keystone" we would need to agree to solidifying the manager-api for assignment and/or identity18:21
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bknudsonif the backend schema is up to the implementor you'll have all sorts of options... so what's different with the existing ldap implementation?18:22
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gyeeok, we'll all on the same page then :)18:22
morganfainbergayoung, bknudson, i would like to avoid saying "go write your own keystone" [that feels like the wrong stance to take right now to keep the community close]18:22
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lbragstadmorganfainberg: ++18:22
ayoungjoesavak, jorge_munoz if you are already targetting 389, lets get a discussion going between your team and the FreeIPA team.  Perhaps we can handle this as stackforge effort18:22
bknudsonmorganfainberg: and resources!18:23
morganfainbergbknudson, yes.18:23
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bknudson(noting that we can't solidify the api since we change it all the time)18:23
morganfainbergbut we should work to make that interface very stable/non-changing anyway18:23
morganfainbergbut that is something we've not committed to yet.18:24
morganfainbergthis comes to that whole "better pluggable architecture" conversation18:24
joesavakso are we saying any schema different than the one in place right now that needs driver development - that driver dev needs to be in stackforge? (lost)18:24
morganfainbergwhere things plugin shouldn't change massively - just like the REST api shouldn't.18:24
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morganfainbergjoesavak, that would sum up the general view - unless i'm miss reading things ( ayoung ?)18:25
bknudsonis that the problem that the LDAP rewrite is trying to solve? the schema is wrong?18:25
ayoungjoesavak, right now LDAP is very light on schema requirments, which works for Identity, but does not really work for Assignments.  I think that targetting something more rigid like a FreeIPA Hostgroup/project design would work better18:25
ayoungbknudson, plus no way to do migrations18:25
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morganfainbergbknudson, it's trying to solve the "we've tried to wedge keystone into current ldap schemas when keystone controls everything" - it's a poor representation of what we support because the LDAP schema (default) isn't designed to handle the assignment backend18:26
morganfainbergthe identity backend is much closer to what a normal LDAP schema would support.18:26
joesavaki like the other approach of surveying user of ldap schema in place, or perhaps versioning them to get to a schema that handles assignments too18:26
morganfainbergif assignment is meant ot be r/w it probably should have it's own schema18:26
ayoungAn IPA backend for Keystone would probably be easier, as it would let you do things like creating users  and hosts at the Python level as opposed to direct LDAP calls18:27
morganfainbergwhether that is in-tree or out.18:27
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morganfainbergayoung, ok we need to isolate the conversation, identity OR assignment?18:27
morganfainbergwhich are you talking about now.18:27
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morganfainbergbecause we're crossing them all over this conversation and they are different concerns18:28
ayoungmorganfainberg, I'm actually talking about the Write side of LDAP for both18:28
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marekdo/ sorry i am late18:28
ayoungIdentity LDAP is primariy R/O18:28
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ayoungthe R/W discussions is for both Id and assignement18:28
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morganfainbergayoung, and assignment in LDAP is a poor representation of what keystone supports18:28
ayoungbut is, I think, a niche case18:28
bknudsonI don't see that they're different concerns... we should either support LDAP or not support it... right now it's kind-of supported.18:28
morganfainbergregardless of r/w or r/o18:28
joesavakhaving 2 non-conflicting schemas for LDAP (assignment & ID) may work - needs more research18:28
gyeegreat topic for the upcoming meetup18:29
ayoungjoesavak, and you need multi-domain, too, right?18:29
nonameenternamebknudson ++18:29
jorge_munozayoung: yes18:29
morganfainbergbknudson, we can't remove ldap identity in the near term (read/only) that is for sure. but that isn't a hard sell or missing anything really from what we support18:29
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dolphmmorganfainberg: but we could deprecate it18:29
ayoungjorge_munoz, jorge_munoz nkinder OK,  lets table the rest of the discussion,and the 4 of us should set up a meeting instead18:29
dolphmi assume that's all we're discussing here18:29
morganfainbergdolphm, this is the issue we are discussing 3 things: identity r/o, identity r/w, assignment ldap18:30
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ayounger..the second jorge_munoz should have been joesavak18:30
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ayoungmorganfainberg, I think I would suggest the following:18:30
morganfainbergdolphm, some of that could be deprecated, some could be sooner vs later18:30
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ayoung1.  Remove R/W from Keystone as is.  2.  Work with Rackspace to come up with a solution specuific to their needs18:31
morganfainbergi think the answer is ML/survey on LDAP assignment (both) - ML/Survey on R/w identity (seprate), leave r/o identity for now as is18:31
jorge_munozayoung: we don’t want to modify the current implemetation just yet18:31
joesavak+1 morgan18:31
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ayoungjorge_munoz, I understand.  We can help on that18:31
morganfainbergif we're clear (less people/no one using) on the r/w front we can deprecate them, slate for removal in M18:32
morganfainbergi am near positive assignment will be able to go18:32
ayoungjorge_munoz, the R/W code as it exists is crap.  I should know, I wrote it.18:32
ayoungIt makes a lot of assumptions, but FreeIPA was in my mind when I made those assumptions18:32
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morganfainbergr/w identity *may* go, may need to wait till we split the identity part out and fully support something better (e.g. FreeIPA interface/separate API to manage things, etc)18:32
ayoungSo if you need W/R LDAP, it should be do-able18:32
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morganfainbergand r/o ldap identity can be evaluated once the r/w stories are dealt with18:33
joesavakayoung - sounds like a good collab opportunity. We'll discuss offline18:33
lbragstadmorganfainberg: jorge_munoz ++18:33
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morganfainberg#action joesavak and jorge_munoz to poll deployers on LDAP use-cases18:34
morganfainberg#action morganfainberg to sent ML topics and surveys to determine use of ldap assignment (possible deprecation)18:34
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morganfainberg#action morganfainberg to send ML topics and surveys to determine use of read/write identity with LDAP (possible deprecation)18:34
morganfainberg#action ayoung nkinder jorge_munoz joesavak to work offline to look at out-of-tree implementation to cover specific use-cases.18:35
morganfainbergdoes that cover everything?18:35
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morganfainberganything anynoe else wants to add before we move on?18:36
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morganfainberg#topic AEToken Specification18:36
*** openstack changes topic to "AEToken Specification (Meeting topic: Keystone)"18:36
morganfainberg#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/130050/18:36
morganfainberglbragstad o/18:36
lbragstadthere has been some discussion on the spec https://review.openstack.org/#/c/130050/23/specs/kilo/ae-tokens.rst18:36
lbragstadspecifically between nonameentername and gyee18:37
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lbragstadaround the token_version18:37
lbragstadvs. token_format18:37
lbragstadand what all needs to be known in order to determine how to unpack the token18:37
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gyeelbragstad, what's the problem? I don't have any issue with the spec18:38
ayoungOK, so I'm lukewarm about AE18:38
lbragstadnonameentername: could you elaborate on the point you were making?18:38
morganfainbergayoung, as long as we have a non-persistent provider in kilo and an easy way to get new providers in, i'm happy18:38
morganfainbergthe non-persistent provider could be AE, it could be PKI based, etc18:39
morganfainbergayoung, having 1 is important.18:39
ayoungmorganfainberg, AE as writtend doesn't meet that requirement18:39
nonameenternameduring deployments of keystone there is a period of time when there are two releases.  There should be a way to tell what version the token is.18:39
morganfainbergayoung, it does.18:39
ayoungAE does not record role assignements18:39
ayoungthey are recreated18:39
jamielennoxlbragstad: this seems like something that can be easily added later if we need it18:39
gyeeayoung, it doesn't need to be, just the scope is enough18:39
lbragstadnonameentername: and that assumes there is something different, data-wise, between the two tokens18:39
morganfainbergayoung, that doesn't mean it doesn't meet the non-persistent qualifier18:39
ayoungmorganfainberg, it means we've redefined what is meant by a token18:40
nonameenternamelbragstad: yes18:40
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morganfainbergayoung, like i said, as long as we have a non-persistent provider this cycle i'm happy.18:40
ayoungwe have that now with PKIZ18:40
lbragstadnonameentername: so, with that18:40
morganfainbergayoung, no we don't PKIZ is not-non-persistent as is there is work that is needed to get there on either front18:40
lbragstadnonameentername: we can add two extra bits and leave those for the driver to determine what they need it for18:40
ayoungwe just need to make PKIZ small enough18:40
morganfainbergayoung, PKIZ could be the basis, i'm not concerned with which one we end up with or if we have multiples - as long as we hit a non-persistent provider.18:41
ayoung1.  We need a registry of token formats.  Please review that spec18:41
ayoung2.  We need revocation events regardless18:41
nonameenternamelbragstad: that would work.18:41
morganfainbergayoung, invert those two in priority.18:41
ayoung3.  Revocation events was written in March18:41
morganfainbergbut yes18:41
lbragstadnonameentername: so, something like AE0001?18:41
ayoungmorganfainberg, they are orthogonal18:41
ayoungwe need both18:41
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ayoungAE spec needs special work for Trusts and OAuth as I recall18:42
nonameenternamelbragstad: yes18:42
ayounghas that been addressed?18:42
lbragstadayoung: I reviewed token registry18:42
ayounglbragstad, thank you18:42
morganfainberglbragstad, nonameentername, i think this is a topic that is into implem,entation details now18:43
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morganfainberglbragstad, nonameentername, and it does sound a lot like bikeshedding18:43
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ayoungI think we can work through the rest of my reservactions on AE, but you need to be dilligent18:44
bknudsonlet's just realize that specs aren't written in stone and it's not a justification in a review to say that this was agreed on in the spec.18:44
morganfainbergcan we continue this in -keystone channel, and work to resolve the issues before looking at AEToken as a viable in-tree provider?18:44
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ayoungthere are a lot of assumptions we need to make explicit18:44
lbragstadbknudson: ++18:44
morganfainbergbknudson, ++ that works.18:44
nonameenternamemorganfainberg: I agree, this can be done when impelmenting the code.18:44
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bknudsonI'd like to see what the code looks like and also get the other required changes in... e.g., revocation events18:45
morganfainbergok lets move on.18:45
morganfainberg#action *EVERYONE* review revocation events - help to get it in place as the default to replace the revocation list18:45
morganfainbergmoving on18:46
morganfainberg#topic Assignment split18:46
*** openstack changes topic to "Assignment split (Meeting topic: Keystone)"18:46
morganfainbergHenry isn't here, but he's split the review up18:46
stevemarmr nash is not present :(18:46
morganfainbergplease start reviewing it18:46
morganfainbergstarts here:18:46
morganfainberg#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/144239/18:46
topolrumor is he is in Hawaii?18:46
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bknudsonlet's spread that rumor18:47
gyeebusiness or pleasure18:47
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lbragstad#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/keystone+branch:master+topic:bp/pluggable-assignments,n,z18:47
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morganfainbergmoving on18:47
morganfainberg#topic Spec Review18:47
*** openstack changes topic to "Spec Review (Meeting topic: Keystone)"18:47
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stevemargyee, why not both18:47
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morganfainbergPlease review specs. Lets get the easy ones in prior to the meetup.18:47
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morganfainberg#topic BPs / reviews that do not need specs18:48
*** openstack changes topic to "BPs / reviews that do not need specs (Meeting topic: Keystone)"18:48
stevemarmarekd's got a nice spec for redefining the way we get a scoped token for federation18:48
morganfainbergbknudson, o/18:48
stevemarit's probably the smallest spec that's up there18:48
bknudsonrefactor keystone-all and http/keystone18:48
morganfainbergbknudson, you have these please lead us on it. but in short if we agree - we'll note it and those can be merged w/o a spec18:48
morganfainberglooking at these i think they can safely be done w/o a spec. (personally)18:49
marekdand the spec is indeed tiny18:49
bknudsonso this is about moving code out of keystone-all / http/keystone into keystone.* and then reuse code18:49
morganfainbergbknudson, ++18:49
bknudsonI don't know if we need a vote or what?18:49
marekdrequired for  https://review.openstack.org/#/c/13059318:49
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marekdstevemar: thanks for bringing it here :-)18:50
morganfainbergbknudson, can do a vote18:50
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bknudsonor, if someone doesn't like the explanation on the meeting, can complain about a specific one and then I'll write a spec18:51
morganfainberg#startvote Does the refactor of keystone-all and http/keystone need a spec? Yes, No, Abstain18:51
openstackBegin voting on: Does the refactor of keystone-all and http/keystone need a spec? Valid vote options are Yes, No, Abstain.18:51
openstackVote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.18:51
bknudson#vote No18:51
morganfainberg#vote no18:51
breton#vote No18:52
topol#vote No18:52
jamielennox#vote NO18:53
joesavak#vote Abstain18:53
* joesavak feels like a true politician now18:53
bretonI'm not sure why refactors would even need a spec18:53
morganfainbergjoesavak, I cannot confirm nor deny18:53
morganfainbergjoesavak or "I am not a crook"?18:53
* topol joesavak show some backbone spineless jello18:54
joesavakone of my aides typed that in. I was on the golf course.18:54
morganfainbergbreton, some refactors are large - and have a lot of moving parts18:54
dolphm#vote No18:54
morganfainbergbreton, this is the whole reason we added the "some bps don't need specs" concept.18:54
dolphmi don't think refactors ever need a spec, unless somehow that refactor impacts end users18:54
dolphmin which case, it's not a refactor18:54
morganfainbergdolphm, want to proxy for dstanek ? ;)18:54
topolI did not have relations with that code module keystone-all18:54
morganfainbergtopol, LOL18:55
openstackAbstain (1): joesavak18:55
openstackNo (6): morganfainberg, bknudson, dolphm, jamielennox, breton, topol18:55
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bknudsontopol: just wait for the stained dress.18:55
joesavakmy vote was bought.18:55
morganfainberganyone else? lbragstad, ayoung, stevemar nkinder18:55
bretonmorganfainberg: why a bug isn't enought? How do we differentiate no-spec-refactoring and bug-is-enough refactoring?18:55
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gyee#vote nO18:56
rodrigodsgyee, tester heh18:56
jamielennoxmorganfainberg: safe to say it's No i think18:56
openstackVoted on "Does the refactor of keystone-all and http/keystone need a spec?" Results are18:56
openstackAbstain (1): joesavak18:56
openstackNo (7): gyee, morganfainberg, bknudson, dolphm, jamielennox, breton, topol18:56
morganfainbergyeah bknudson , i'd say it's all good18:56
bknudsonok, I'll put a blueprint on it.18:56
stevemar#vote no18:56
morganfainbergbreton, it's because some refactors have a lot of moving parts.18:56
stevemarnooo i missed it18:56
morganfainbergstevemar, late to the game!18:56
bknudsonnext is "refactoring keystonemiddleware to extract classes"18:57
ayoung#vote no18:57
stevemardoes it even need a blueprint?18:57
lbragstad#note no18:57
lbragstad#vote no18:57
jamielennoxstevemar: if it all goes to hell you can at least say it wasnt your fault18:57
ayoung#note vo18:57
stevemar#note vo18:57
morganfainbergbreton, and *could* impact deployers and/or users18:57
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lbragstadstevemar: my dyslexia has set in18:57
ayoung#tone loc18:57
dolphmif we're using voting, you need to end the previous vote first18:57
morganfainbergi did!18:57
morganfainbergdolphm, ^^18:57
topol#vote no18:57
morganfainbergi just haven't started the next vote18:57
ayoung#phone home18:58
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morganfainberg#startvote refactor keystonemiddleware to extract classes need a spec? yes, no, idontlikepolls18:58
openstackBegin voting on: refactor keystonemiddleware to extract classes need a spec? Valid vote options are yes, no, idontlikepolls.18:58
openstackVote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.18:58
bknudson#vote no18:58
morganfainberg#vote no18:58
dolphm#vote no18:58
jamielennox#vote no18:58
stevemarcan we start up an etherpad for the hackathon?18:58
bretonwell, ok. IMO it wasn't even worth voting.18:58
stevemarget some goals outlined there18:58
marekd#vote no18:58
morganfainbergbknudson, and please do still use a BP (tag it to k2 and set a priority)18:58
marekd(this time i didnt miss)18:59
bknudsonmorganfainberg: I'll file bps for all these that we agree on.18:59
jamielennoxhave we ever done a full spec for middleware?18:59
topol#vote no18:59
gyee#vote no18:59
gyeejust do it18:59
stevemar#vote no18:59
morganfainbergbreton, the point of voting is to make sure we're clear on not needing a spec.18:59
openstackno (8): gyee, morganfainberg, bknudson, marekd, dolphm, jamielennox, stevemar, topol18:59
morganfainberggoing in 518:59
breton#vote no19:00
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openstackVoted on "refactor keystonemiddleware to extract classes need a spec?" Results are19:00
openstackno (9): gyee, morganfainberg, bknudson, marekd, dolphm, jamielennox, stevemar, breton, topol19:00
dolphm#vote bandwagon19:00
bknudsonout of time... can work on the rest next week19:00
morganfainbergbknudson, ++19:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jan  6 19:00:48 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-01-06-18.02.html19:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-01-06-18.02.txt19:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-01-06-18.02.log.html19:00
jeblairhowdy infra folks19:01
AJaegerHappy New Year!19:01
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jeblairasselin: ping19:01
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jeblair#startmeeting infra19:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Jan  6 19:02:00 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:02
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jeblair#link agenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting19:02
jeblair#link last real meeting: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-12-16-19.01.html19:02
jeblair#link last informal meeting: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-12-23-19.03.html19:02
jeblair#topic  Actions from last meeting19:02
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*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:02
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jeblairjeblair rmlist -a third-party-requests19:02
jeblairi did that19:02
jeblairseems to be gone.  :)19:03
anteayathank you19:03
jeblair#topic  Schedule next project renames19:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Schedule next project renames (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
jeblairso it looks like we have 8 projects ready to go to the attic19:03
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AJaegerannegentle_'s patch for the service-apis needs at least another iteration but that should be easy to do19:04
jeblairi will not be available this weekend (SFO->AKL)19:04
fungiwe've generally treated attic moves as low-priority to be batched with more important renames as they arise19:04
jeblairanyone around this weekend want to do it?  otherwise, i'm available again in +2 weeks19:04
fungiare these more urgent than normal19:05
jeblairfungi: that's true.  i don't think they are.19:05
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jeblairwant to defer for a few more weeks and see if anything else comes up?19:05
mordredjeblair, fungi: also may want to move shade into openstack-infra at some point based on dib-nodepool things - but also not urgent19:05
fungii vote we just let them simmer until another rename request comes up with some urgency, yeah19:05
mordredalso, that is pending us deciding to do that19:05
mordredoh - wait - that's not a rename19:05
* mordred shuts up19:05
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* AJaeger agrees with fungi19:06
* mordred agrees with fungi19:06
jeblairmordred: well, we should still talk about it... maybe we can put that on a future meeting agenda19:06
anteayaI have no objection to letting them simmer19:06
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jeblair#agreed defer attic moves for a few more weeks pending further rename accumulation19:07
jeblairand if nothing shows up after a while, we'll do them anyway19:07
clarkbI am out this weekend and next so they aren't great for renames if I am doing them19:07
jeblair#topic  Priority Efforts - Swift logs19:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts - Swift logs (Meeting topic: infra)"19:07
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jheskethso the next step is to get the uploading script running in a venv so that it can install dependencies19:08
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anteayajhesketh: is that patch working and just waiting on being merged?19:08
jeblair#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/142327/19:08
AJaegerjhesketh: is this needed for each and every job? Can't we update our base images so that they contain all dependencies?19:08
anteayaah sean has a concern19:09
jheskethwell sdague had some feedback but I'd like to get another opinion as the method I used was the same for how we set up zuul19:09
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jhesketh(long term we probably want to move the upload script to its own project as it has grown in features and it has even been suggested to use a templating engine)19:09
fungithe concern is that installing dependencies of a python tool in the global system context on all our workers increases chances for conflict with things jobs themselves need19:10
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mordredthat's my concern as well - I'm supportive of running it in a venv19:10
fungizuul-cloner is run from a virtualenv for the puppet integration job for similar reasons19:10
jheskethright I think we agree on that... sdague's input was to have the job set up the venv itself rather than as part of the setup process19:11
mordredI do also agree with sean's concern though - and that should be easy enough to fix19:11
jeblairi'm not sure i agree with it.  there's nothing wrong with using full paths when invoking programs19:11
jeblairbut at any rate, there's the change to review19:12
jeblairjhesketh: anything else blocking?19:12
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jheskeththere are some related changes but they are not blocking19:12
jheskethhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/143340/ after the venv is merged19:13
jeblair#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/143340/19:13
jheskethhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/141286/ and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/141277/ add in improvements to the index generation that were requested19:13
jeblair#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/141286/19:13
jeblair#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/141277/19:13
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jeblairjhesketh: anything else?19:14
jheskethnope :-)19:15
jeblair#topic Priority Efforts - Puppet module split19:15
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts - Puppet module split (Meeting topic: infra)"19:15
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jeblairasselin: so last time you were proposing some changes to stage a bunch of split work at once19:15
asselinSo after last meeting, I proposed a spec update to optimize the split work: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/143689/19:15
asselin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/143689/19:15
asselinIf we agree, then I'd like to do a mini sprint to get these done in batches.19:17
anteayawell we have a problem19:17
anteayathat needs to be addressed19:17
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anteayawith repo replication19:17
nibalizerim not familiar with that problem19:18
anteayawhich zaro jesusarus and I have been trying to get to the bottom of19:18
jeblairasselin: wait, so are you abandoning your idea of combining the prep work into one change?19:18
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anteayahappened yesterday with the lodgeit split19:18
asselinjeblair, no19:18
asselinjeblair, just one 2nd change b/c it introduces too many conflicts.19:18
anteayaafter the merge to project-config the repo didn't end up on 3 of 5 git servers19:18
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jeblairanteaya: let's talk about that leater19:18
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jeblairasselin: do you have a change prepared that does all of the prep work?19:19
asselinjeblair, yes19:19
asselin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/140523/19:19
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asselinreviewers prefered getting agreement via spec, and I agreed it would clarify the plan19:20
jeblairwell, i don't see how your large change was different than a simple optimization of what's in the spec19:20
jeblairwheras you have actually added quite a lot of stuff to the spec that's going to need to go through some significant review19:21
jeblairso i'm not sure that this is the most expeditious process19:21
asselinwell, I can go either way, honestly :)19:21
jeblairif anyone actually objects to the approach in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/140523/10  let's just hear it now19:21
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* nibalizer no objection19:22
anteayaas long as anyone can do a puppet module split out and find current instructions for doing so, that works for me19:22
jeblairjesusaurus: you had an objection in the review19:22
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jesusaurusim not sure what the benefit is of that approach19:22
jesusaurusand i think the current process keeps changes logically together19:22
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jeblairjesusaurus: fewer and smaller changes to review while going through the process?19:23
asselinthe benefit is we can do the splits with less effort, in e.g a mini sprint.19:23
krtayloryeah, less chance for typos IIRC19:23
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jesusaurusis it actually fewer changes? i think the current changes are fairly small and dont really need to be trimmed down19:24
asselinb/c there are a few little changes sprikled in a few files. seems easier to do all at once.19:24
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jesusaurusbut i dont have a very strong opinion on the matter19:24
fungimy only fundamental reservation was with earlier patchsets which added lots of commented-out sections to gerrit/projects.yaml but this version does not so i'm fine with it19:24
jeblair#vote use approach in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/140523 ? yes, no19:24
jeblairclarkb: help! :)19:24
nibalizerits #startvote i think19:25
jeblair#startvote use approach in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/140523 ? yes, no19:25
openstackBegin voting on: use approach in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/140523 ? Valid vote options are yes, no.19:25
openstackVote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.19:25
asselinfungi, yes that patch was abandoned b/c it would also create lots of merge conflicts which is counter productive19:25
clarkbso I have tried to avoid this because I don't feel super strongly either way19:25
AJaeger#vote yes19:25
anteaya#vote abstain19:25
openstackanteaya: abstain is not a valid option. Valid options are yes, no.19:25
clarkbmy biggest gripe which wasn't super important is reviewing an 800 line diff is annoying19:25
nibalizer#vote yes19:25
asselin#vote yes19:25
sweston#vote yes19:25
fungiit's a bit of a bikeshed, but i'm in favor by way of not being against ;)19:25
krtaylor#vote yes19:25
fungi#vote yes19:25
pleia2#vote yes19:25
jesusaurus#vote no19:25
mordred#vote yes19:26
fungiultimately, my feeling is that whoever's willing to do the work can choose how to go about it, as long as there are no serious problems with the plan19:26
clarkbhow concerned are we about breaking multiple things in a way that prevents us from fixing it with puppet because its all wedged19:26
anteayafungi: +119:26
openstackVoted on "use approach in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/140523 ?" Results are19:26
openstackyes (8): mordred, krtaylor, sweston, nibalizer, fungi, AJaeger, pleia2, asselin19:26
openstackno (1): jesusaurus19:26
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AJaegerasselin: looks like time to rebase the patch and then let's merge...19:26
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jeblairclarkb: i don't think this changes that19:26
jhesketh(I agree with fungi too but don't know enough about the proposed changes to vote)19:26
anteayaand follows up problems and fixes them19:26
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jeblairokay, so part 2 of this is, should we have a mini-sprint to try to get through a bunch of modules at once?19:27
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asselinthese changes are noops until the real change is merged (which pulls in the project into openstack-infra)19:27
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jeblairi'm not in a good position to help with that for the next 2.5 weeks19:28
fungiour infra-manual sprint was a huge success, and this seems like a good candidate for similar priority task knock-out19:28
jeblairfungi: i agree, i think it's desirable19:28
nibalizerjeblair: i love the idea of picking a day and getting it done19:28
nibalizeror 85%19:28
mordredI'm also not in much of a position to be substantively helpful until feb19:28
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clarkbbut january is hard ... ETOOMUCHGOINGON19:29
jesusaurusid be happy to help whenever it happens19:29
anteayaI'm useless until Fed too19:29
jeblairmaybe thursday.  :)19:29
* fungi has travel coming up in a couple weeks and is getting back up to speed as well19:29
pleia2sounds good to me, happy to help with testing/reviewing and logistics again (announcements, etherpad setup, summary)19:29
* nibalizer fine with waiting, epecrially if we pick a day in advance19:29
fungiyou know, that thursday which always happens in february19:29
anteayado we want to discuss the repo replication bug now or wait until open discussion?19:30
fungianteaya: it's not directly related to teh puppet module split19:30
jeblairlet's pick a date now19:30
fungianteaya: just a (probably gerrit) bug impacting new project creation19:30
anteayaoh I have been operating on the belief that it is19:30
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jeblairfriday jan 30?19:30
pleia2nibalizer and I won't be around then19:30
pleia2(fosdem travel)19:31
anteayanor will I19:31
jeblairpleia2: when do you leave?19:31
asselinI leave for vacation on the 31st, so 30 is good for me19:31
pleia2I fly out on the 29th19:31
clarkbevery day that week but monday is good for me19:31
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fungii'm around that week as well19:31
pleia2so, thursday19:31
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jeblairhow about wed 28?19:31
pleia2wfm, nibalizer when do you head to fosdem?19:31
nibalizeruh i have not planned fosdem19:32
pleia2nibalizer: ok, don't leave until thursday :D19:32
jeblairnibalizer: you leave after wednesday feb 28.  ;)19:32
anteaya<- cinder mid-cycle19:32
mordredI cannot do the 28th - but don' tlet that stop you19:32
nibalizerfeb28 doesn't conflict with fosdem at all19:32
nibalizerfosdem is feb 1 and 219:32
jeblairjhesketh: around wed 28th?19:32
nibalizeri can do feb28 no prob19:32
pleia2oh, jeblair said jan19:33
jheskethjeblair: yes, works for me19:33
fungifebruary 3019:33
nibalizerfungi: nice19:33
pleia2late february is fine for me19:33
jeblairmordred: seems like we have a few cores, so should be okay....19:33
jeblairsince there was confusion...19:33
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jhesketherr, both should be fine although feb is possibly a little hazy19:33
fungibut yeah, that seems like a reasonably soon but not inconveniently soon week19:34
jeblairlast call: wednesday, january 28th okay for everyone but mordred?19:34
jesusauruswait, jan 28 or feb 28?19:34
anteayamordred and anteaya19:34
anteayabut you dont' need me eitehr19:34
nibalizerjan 28 works for me19:34
* jesusaurus can do jan 2819:34
fungianteaya: that's when the cinder mid-cycle is scheduled you say?19:34
pleia2jan 28 is good19:34
asselinanteaya, you did a great job reviewing the patch. thanks!19:34
anteayafungi: yes19:34
jeblairanteaya: oh i thought you were okay that date19:34
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anteayajeblair: no mid-cycling after lca until first week of Feb19:35
anteayabut it works for everyone else so go ahead19:35
jeblairanteaya: yeah, but you're core on one of the projects19:35
anteayaso is andreas19:35
anteayaI can try to be around but I just can't commit19:36
jeblairyeah, i'm just trying to maximize people who can actually approve these changes :)19:36
anteayacan't do two sprints at once19:36
anteayaI don't want to block, works for everyone else19:36
anteayahard to pick a better time19:36
jeblair#agreed module split sprint wednesday, jan 2819:36
* nibalizer excited19:37
jeblairwe can continue to split them off incrementially till then of course19:37
asselinawesome. thank you! :)19:37
jeblair#action asselin update module split staging change and merge asap19:37
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jeblairasselin: when that's ready, do please pester people to approve it so we don't end up with lots of conflict rebases, etc19:37
jeblair#topic Priority Efforts - Nodepool DIB19:38
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts - Nodepool DIB (Meeting topic: infra)"19:38
asselinwill do19:38
jeblairmordred, clarkb: what's the status here?19:38
mordredso - I haven't done much since mid dec19:38
clarkbI haven't been able to do much around this since the switch to trusty19:38
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mordredbut I got time again today19:38
mordredwhich has been great19:38
jeblairhey everyone, mordred has free time!  ;)19:38
mordredI've got half of my crappy shell scripts properly translated over in to python19:38
clarkbbut there are a bunch of nodepool changes outstanding that I and others have written that fix bugs that allow us to do this better19:39
clarkblet me pick out some important onces19:39
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jeblairmordred: what is the character of the python changes you are writing?19:39
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mordredwell, the most complicated part of this is the "use glance v1 on one cloud and swift+glance v2 on the other cloud"19:40
clarkb#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/140106/19:40
clarkblooks like I can actually approve that one19:40
mordredwith completely different workflows19:40
clarkb#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/130878/19:40
jeblairmordred: so the existing nodepool glance stuff was only tested/written for one cloud?19:40
clarkb#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/139704/19:40
mordredjeblair: yes19:40
mordredjeblair: so I'm writing an interface that will work for both clouds19:40
mordredand will do all of the things we need19:41
jeblairi'm really sad that it's so different.  :(19:41
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mordredI'm currently doing that inside of shade for ease of testing, and because I'm pretty sure other folks might need this - but if we decide that we don't want to make nodepool depend on shade then I can copy and paste the relevant stuff into a local class for nodepool19:41
mordredjeblair: it's COMPLETELY different19:42
fungiif only there were some common service platform they could both use. maybe if it were free software they'd have no excuse19:42
mordredbut neither cloud is doing anything "wrong"19:42
clarkbwe tried explaining to glance devs why the client shoul dmake it not different for us19:42
clarkbnot really sure thta went anywhere19:42
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mordredwell, hopefully in a few more hours I'll have a client that makes it not different for us19:42
fungiyeah, the glance image type situation is pretty unfortunate19:43
clarkbfungi: its not even that though19:43
mordredand then I expect it to take another couple of days to get a nodepool patch for folks to look at19:43
clarkbfungi: on rackspace you have to upload to swift separate from glance, then tell glance there is an image over in swift19:43
fungioh, oww19:43
mordredfungi: yeah - it's completely different19:43
jeblairok cool, so we have changes clarkb linked to, and some forthcoming changes from mordred.  hopefully in a couple of weeks we can maybe try this for real?19:43
fungiyou can't upload directly to glance there?19:43
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mordredjeblair: ++19:43
mordredfungi: no - by choice/design19:44
mordredbut on HP it's the opposite, you _cannot_ upload to swift and import19:44
mordredyou must upload directly to glance19:44
jeblairclarkb: can we continue to increase dib in hpcloud after the current nodepool changes merge?19:44
fungiby design of course ;)19:44
clarkbjeblair: yes19:44
jeblairbecause actually, getting dib everywhere there and spreading across all 9 routers might help other things19:44
clarkbjeblair: the important one for that is teh second linked change. it allows rax to be snapshot and hp to be dib19:44
jeblairso maybe we should plan to continue to push dib in hpcloud to help work out issues there19:45
jeblairhopefully that will make the rax-dib work less painful when it's ready19:45
fungii'm in favor19:45
mordredI'd love to get outstanding nodepool patches taht are releated to openstack apis merged or at least agreed to in large part19:45
mordredbefore I start in with the next set19:45
mordredbecause I'm pretty sure they need to be additive19:45
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jeblairmordred: the existing ones clarkb linked to?19:45
clarkbmordred: yes and before we do that I think we should fix our bugs :)19:45
mordredclarkb: yup19:46
mordredjeblair: yes19:46
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mordredI'll work on reviewing those today after I eat a sandwich19:46
jeblairanything else dib related?19:46
jeblair#topic Priority Efforts - Jobs on trusty19:46
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts - Jobs on trusty (Meeting topic: infra)"19:46
jeblairfungi: is ubuntu still shipping a non-functioning python?19:47
fungijeblair: yes, i think they're all asleep at the wheel. pinged several bugs and no response on any of them19:47
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1367907 in python3.4 "Segfault in gc with cyclic trash" [High,Fix released]19:47
jeblairthat's been marked as 'invalid' in oslo.messaging...19:48
funginot sure how to increase visibility, though i guess i could start rattling mailing lists, irc channels, something19:48
clarkbjeblair: ya its a python bug not an oslo.messaging bug19:48
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fungithe bug "affects" oslo.messaging insofar as it can't be tested on ubuntu's python 3.4 in trusty, but i'm not going to argue the point with the oslo bug team19:49
jeblairso when do we drop py3k-precise testing?19:49
jeblairi think we've waited quite long enough19:49
fungii guess it depends on what we want to do when we drop it. go ahead and start testing everything which isn't breaking on 3.4?"19:50
fungiand just stop testing the stuff which is no longer testable on 3.4 (because of needing fixed 3.4 on utrusty)?19:51
jeblairyeah, i think that's one option19:51
fungii can do that fairly trivially19:51
jeblairanother option would be to switch our testing platform to an os that fixes bugs19:51
fungiat that point it's just oslo.messaging and oslo.rootwrap as far as i've been able to tell19:51
* mordred doesn't unlike that idea19:51
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clarkbthen we just have to decide on what that distro/OS is :)19:52
mordredjeblair: just for completeness - we could also start maintaining our own python package19:52
mordredI'm not voting for that one, just mentioning19:52
clarkbthe big problem with that is the problem that travis exposes19:52
clarkbyou don't actually end up testing a python platform that is useable to anyone19:53
mordredbecause $distro-crazy19:53
clarkbso nothing works when you install your code over there on ubunut/centos19:53
mordredremember when distros distro'd software and didn't much with it so much?19:53
* mordred shuts mouth19:53
jeblairso keeping precise going isn't a big deal19:53
jeblairthe big deal to me is that we've actually decided to test on py3419:53
jeblairbut we can't19:53
jeblairwhich is a hindrance to the move to py3419:53
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dhellmannfungi: I think I set that bug to invalid. That might not be the right state, but my impression was there wasn't really anything the Oslo team could do about it.19:54
clarkbI do think a move to say debian is not unreasonable19:54
mordredand I agree with clarkb that if we did something like slackware - we'd be "testing" python 3.4 but it still might not work on the platforms people are using19:54
fungidhellmann: nothing the oslo team can do about it, but it is still breaking oslo.messaging so... up to you19:54
dhellmannfungi: yeah :-/19:54
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fungidhellmann: well, nothing you can do about it short of asking the ubuntu python package maintainers to please fix it19:55
mordredclarkb: well, even with a move to debian - since the distro pythons are all patched and different - what _Are_ we actually testing?19:55
clarkbmordred: the ability to run on debian/ubuntu/centos19:55
anteayaour host clouds19:55
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dhellmannfungi: if only I had time -- maybe sileht can talk to zul, though19:55
jeblairokay, so i think within a few weeks we should come up with a plan19:56
fungidhellmann: zul's aware, but says barry warsaw needs to take care of it19:56
mordredjeblair: ++19:56
jeblairprobably not going to resolve now19:56
fungijeblair: i'll also see what py3k centos7 offers us19:56
dhellmannfungi: ok, I'll try poking barry by email19:56
jeblairbut let's be thinking about whether we want to do partial 34 testing, or switch platforms, or ...19:56
clarkbmordred: basically if we stick to a non boutique distro then we continue to have an answer for reasonably tested on X that you can be expected to use without eye rolls19:56
fungijeblair: sounds good19:56
jeblair#topic Priority Efforts - Zanata19:56
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts - Zanata (Meeting topic: infra)"19:56
jeblairi need to add this to the agenda19:57
mordredclarkb: I'm not sure I agree - but I do understand your pov19:57
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jeblairbut i mostly wanted to remind people to watch the puppet-zanata repo, and help review pleia2's patches as this starts up19:57
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mordredclarkb: I'm not sure I care that we have a 'reasonable' answer if that reasonable answer ends up with someone downloading something we say works and they discover that it does not19:57
mordredjeblair: woot19:57
jeblairpleia2: anything you want to mention?19:58
anteayapleia2: I've been seeing your patches fly by in scrollback are you using a consistent topic?19:58
pleia2nothing major I only have one review up so far to get wildfly itself installed19:58
pleia2struggling a bit with zanata itself, but nothing I can't get past19:58
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jeblairit has a +2! :)19:58
pleia2yes, thanks jeblair!19:59
pleia2oops, almost forgot about this one too: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/143512/19:59
jeblair#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/143512/19:59
pleia2that's in system-config to pull in the wildfly module19:59
pleia2I did a cursory overview of the module we're grabbing, but other eyes on it would be nice in case it does something crazy that I missed20:00
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jeblairpublic service announcement: the TC meeting is canceled this week. the next meeting in this channel is the cross-project meeting at 21:0020:00
jeblairi'm going to run 5 minutes over if people don't mind...20:01
jeblair#topic  Upgrading Gerrit (zaro)20:01
mordredjeblair: go for it20:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Upgrading Gerrit (zaro) (Meeting topic: infra)"20:01
zaronothing much to report atm20:01
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jeblairso we talked a bit about this, and zaro pointed out the hung sshd issues20:01
zarowill try to upgrade review-dev.o.o soon20:01
jeblairzaro: my understanding is that with this change: https://gerrit-review.googlesource.com/#/c/62070/20:01
jeblairzaro: 2.9.3 should no longer have those issues (they downgraded the sshd module to a version without the problems)20:02
jeblairzaro: does that sound right?20:02
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jeblair(also 2.9.4 has been released since then, and only contains a jgit upgrade)20:02
zaroyes, that is correct.20:03
zaroi believe that change brings it back to same state as 2.820:03
jeblairso it seems like 2.9.3 or 2.9.4 are reasonable upgrade targets20:04
zaroyes, i believe so.20:04
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zaroi will stop puppet agent on review-dev soon.20:05
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zaroalso i noticed that there was a fix to the replication retry in 2.9 as well.20:05
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zaro#link https://gerrit-review.googlesource.com/#/c/41320/20:06
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jeblairokay cool.  mostly just wanted to make sure we concluded the sshd discussion and agreed on a version20:06
fungianteaya: ^ that's possibly the solution to the issue you were asking about earlier20:06
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anteayafungi: oh I do hope so20:06
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fungithough the description doesn't sound entirely the same20:08
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jeblairlet's call that it for this week20:08
jeblairthanks everyone!20:08
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:08
pc_mI have some questions (anteaya suggested I ask here) - can people hang around for a bit on #openstack-infra?20:08
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jan  6 20:08:36 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:08
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-01-06-19.02.html20:08
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-01-06-19.02.txt20:08
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-01-06-19.02.log.html20:08
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jeblairpublic service announcement: the TC meeting is canceled this week. the next meeting in this channel is the cross-project meeting at 21:0020:08
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sarobjeblair: thanks20:14
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devanandasorta here21:01
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ttxcourtesy PTL ping: dhellmann, morganfainberg, notmyname, nikhil_k, thingee, david-lyle, mestery, SlickNik, SergeyLukjanov: around ?21:01
SergeyLukjanovttx, hey21:01
ttx#startmeeting crossproject21:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Jan  6 21:02:09 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:02
* mestery waves at ttx again21:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'crossproject'21:02
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ttxOur agenda for today:21:02
ttx#link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting21:02
ttxmestery: live line edit fail21:02
ttx#topic State of nova-network to neutron migration21:02
*** openstack changes topic to "State of nova-network to neutron migration (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:02
ttxanteaya: around?21:03
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ttxThis was raised in a ML thread before the holiday season21:03
ttx#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-December/053355.html21:03
boris-42Hey hey21:03
boris-42ttx: happy new year=)21:03
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anteayaI am21:03
ttxboris-42: thx, glad you could join21:03
ttxIn summary, while this is a stated priority for Nova and Neutron teams, the effort has stalled21:03
boris-42ttx: yep from vacation=)21:03
ttxI think we have already taken steps to address this issue with a specific meeting and a champion to make sure progress is made21:04
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anteayawe are working on collecting around a meeting time21:04
mesteryttx: Yes21:04
ttxI would just like to make sure there are no blockers at this point21:04
anteayaso far myself and oleg have stated preferences21:04
ttxIf there are, see if that meeting can help remove them21:04
anteayawell today russian holidays21:04
anteayabut that will come to an end21:04
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ttxanteaya: do we have all the team-specific liaisons we need to make progress here ?21:04
jogoanteaya: the timing for setting up a meeting wasn't great with the holidays. hope to respond today21:04
anteayajogo: thank you21:05
mikalI know gus is interested too -- I'll make sure he's aware21:05
anteayawe have jogo's and mikal's attention in nova21:05
anteayagreat and gus21:05
markmcclainttx: yes.. we should now21:05
anteayaand mestery and markmcclain and oleg in neutron21:05
ttxDo we need ops-side support ?21:05
anteayattx good question, whom might you recommend?21:05
ttxlike have a few of them in the workgroup21:05
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mesterySomeone from CERN I imagine21:06
* anteaya turns down no offer of support21:06
mikalanteaya: Tim Bell?21:06
anteayaoh yes, we have two cern devs21:06
mesterymikal: ++21:06
anteayaI have their email addresses21:06
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anteayathey attended the earlier impromtue meeting and have reviewd the current spec which is wip21:06
ttxanteaya: I can reach out to fifieldt_ in case he has someone else to suggest21:06
jogothe part I am still a bit unclear on is: what is required from nova21:07
anteayattx would be great to have his participation21:07
jogolast I read the spec it was not very complete21:07
anteayajogo: right, there were some passages in the spec that needed detail21:07
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anteayaand unfortunately the main author oleg is on holidays still21:07
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ttxanteaya: so we should know more next week ?21:08
asalkeldwhat's the link to the spec?21:08
anteayaI sure hope to21:08
* mestery thinks we really need to wait for Oleg here21:08
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asalkeldfound it: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/142456/21:08
ttxanteaya: OK, we'll just let the workgroup make progress. If you are blocked, don't hesistate to raise a new topic for this meeing. Otherwise, we'll do a status update in this meeting in about a month ? Would that work ?21:09
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/142456/21:09
anteayamestery: well we can identify concerned parties, which we are doing21:09
anteayathank you21:09
mesterythanks ttx21:09
anteayalets do two weeks from today21:09
anteayanot a month21:09
anteayaif we hit a wall I want folks to know21:09
ttxanteaya: if you hit a wall you can add the topic and we'll discuss it right away21:10
anteayaokay fair enough21:10
anteayathank you21:10
mikalMany of these peoplre are also at LCA21:10
mikalSo you can lock them in a room if needed21:10
anteayanot oleg though unfortunately21:10
ttxanteaya: if it just goes well we'll update in one month21:10
anteayavery good21:10
anteayaI won't stay quiet you do know that21:10
ttx#action ttx to schedule a status update on novanet2neutron one month from now, unless a more urgent status update is needed21:11
jogowill any neutron folks be at LCA?21:11
anteayamarkmcclain will21:11
anteayaand I am expecting gus21:11
jogomarkmcclain: can you be a proxy for Oleg ?21:12
ttxOK, anything else on that topic ?21:12
mtreinishjogo: http://lca2015.linux.org.au/media/news/11521:12
jogoso we can get some f2f stuff done21:12
mtreinishoh anteaya beat me to it... :)21:12
anteayattx I'm done21:12
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anteayamtreinish: :D21:12
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ttxmtreinish: that was the previous markmcclain21:12
markmcclainjogo: yes21:13
ttx#topic Discuss openstack-spec: log guidelines21:13
*** openstack changes topic to "Discuss openstack-spec: log guidelines (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:13
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/132552/21:13
sdagueI even did another run of it today, hopefully working out the last kinks21:13
ttxThis is a proposed cross-project spec. It basically needs to be reviewed by project teams to make sure those guidelines are as applicable to them as possible21:13
ttxThere weren't strong opposition to it so far, most comments are about details21:14
* ttx updates21:14
RockygReally need to get some Ops eyes on this.21:14
dhellmannsdague: I think at this point its safe to stop fiddling with wording, unless there's a major issue to be addressed :-)21:14
ttxBut that may mean most PTLs just didn't look into it yet21:14
bknudsongetting info from ops about if we're logging too much or not enough would be useful21:15
morganfainbergMinor wording changes can happen post merge if needed. Specs are not set in stone.21:15
asalkeldRockyg: +121:15
sdaguedhellmann: yeh, I hope so, I did try to explain the parts that I thought confused people a ton21:15
RockygBut, that said, Ops can always do a new/addition to this once this is out.21:15
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sdaguemorganfainberg: ++21:15
bknudsonI know that the keystone logs are useless from my dev perspective.21:15
dhellmannsdague: yeah, some of the new bits are helpful21:15
morganfainbergbknudson: we need to work on that in general. Keystone logs are far less useful from a ops perspective than they should be as well.21:15
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bknudsondoesn't need to be addressed in the spec... the spec looks fine to me.21:16
dhellmannthis spec is several months old at this point, and I don't see any point in continuing to wait for more reviews21:16
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Rockyg++ morganfainberg21:16
morganfainbergI'll score the spec post this meeting. It looks good to me.21:16
ttxRockyg: think you can gather ops feedback on it in a reasonable timeframe ? Don't want to stall those opsenstack-specss forever trying to get everyone's feedback before approving21:16
bknudsonthe only complaint I would be worried about is dropping audit log level if some group is using it21:16
thingeeyeah I'll be looking at it post meeting too21:17
sdaguebknudson: realistically, we've never had push back on that point21:17
morganfainbergbknudson: I think audit is a bad log level - cadf or info.21:17
sdaguethat was in there from the original draft back in May21:17
asalkeldbknudson: also you still get the log, just as info21:17
ttx#action PTLs make sure to review (or get reviewed) the log guidelines spec as it's considered pretty much ready by now21:17
Rockygttx:  There is a midcycle meetup in March for Ops.  I think if this gets out there as is, it will inspire the midcycle to improve it.  and that's not too much lag time21:17
morganfainbergIf it really is audit info, hiding it in the logs is bad.21:17
bknudsonsounds good. I don't think I've seen it anywhere21:17
jungleboyjbknudson: No one should be using that.  If they are it should be changed.21:18
jungleboyjbknudson: I thought there was effort to remove it a while back anyway.21:18
RockygAlso, I'll post the review to the devops list.21:18
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dhellmannRockyg: do you anticipate major changes being proposed?21:19
ttxRockyg: ok, maybe just relay that the window of opportunity to comment before approval is closing fast21:19
sdaguejungleboyj: it was all the same effort, people were just digging in early based on early versions of this21:19
RockygI expect tweaks to existing and additions and/or clarifications21:19
jungleboyjsdague: Ah, good to know.21:19
RockygKey here is that seandague has fought thes logs a lot in his position in QA, so what is there is goodness for anyone who has to use the logs21:20
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asalkeldsdague: are we going to move to a global log config format (at least a global config file for logging) to ensure consistent output?21:20
annegentle_I'll comment in the review patch too, but is there ever Fatal?21:20
sdagueasalkeld: that's beyond the scope of this21:21
sdagueat least for now21:21
asalkeldit is very high level21:21
sdaguethis is hopefully to get all the projects roughly doing the same things internally with logging information21:21
ttxyes, it's more a log philosophy than an implementation21:22
sdagueright, agreed21:22
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morganfainbergannegentle_: fatal? Higher than crit? I think crit meets that by spec definition.21:22
dhellmannasalkeld: there is work happening in oslo.log and oslo.context to standardize the format21:22
bknudsondo we then have blueprints for each project?21:22
clarkbwe basically have the same default format if you use oslo.log too21:22
annegentle_morganfainberg: sure, but the link referenced in the blueprint mentions fatal so I ask. Noting in a comment.21:22
sdagueclarkb: right agreed21:22
ttxsdague: so we could let that bake for one more week and then have the TC tally the votes and approve it21:23
morganfainbergannegentle_: ack21:23
sdaguettx: I'm fine with that21:23
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ttxsdague: unless a big objection comes out21:23
RockygSo, do you guys see this as the basis for a "principles in Logging" for OpenStack?21:23
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dhellmannRockyg: I wasn't anticipating anyone writing another document. Is that what you mean?21:24
ttx#info Expect the TC to tally the votes on this one at next week meeting, unless a big objection is posted21:24
ttx#action ttx to add log guidelines openstack-spec talkly to next week TC meeting agenda21:24
RockygI'm thinking at a minimum, the intro on the Wiki page for Logging Standards21:24
annegentle_Rockyg: dhellmann: I just commented on the review I'd like discussion on where this gets documented21:25
dhellmannI thought the spec *was* the documentation for this.21:25
dhellmannthat's the point of having something that goes through the review process, no?21:25
ttxthat sounds like the right place21:25
Rockyganngentle_ ++ if it only lives in the spec, it doesn't really live.21:25
annegentle_we have the Ops Guide http://docs.openstack.org/openstack-ops/content/logging_monitoring.html21:25
annegentle_so we do already discuss it -- and I htink the scope would be "how does OpenStack approach/think about logging"21:26
annegentle_so yes, I'd like that specifically addressed in the spec21:26
dhellmannthese are instructions for developers to follow when adding new logging calls and reviewing other patches with new logging calls. I don't think it needs to go into a manual anywhere21:26
dhellmannif we want to replicate the information in a format appropriate for other consumers, that's independent of this spec21:26
annegentle_dhellmann: those are for the specs, sure. I'd just like to see an operator doc in addition21:26
ttxdhellmann: ++21:26
sdaguedhellmann: agreed21:26
annegentle_dhellmann: okay, sure.21:26
Rockygannegentle_  Ooh, good!  but it also needs to link to developer docs so devs know how to write the log code chunks21:26
devanandadhellmann: ++21:26
ttxannegentle_: anyone can translate that into a "this is the spirit of openstack logs" doc21:26
annegentle_Rockyg: meh, it's a different audience21:26
ttxbut yes, different audience21:27
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annegentle_Rockyg: hence my thinking the Ops Guide (which is not read generally by contributor devs to my knowledge)21:27
RockygDifferent audience, but we need to make sure the stuff stays in sync between dev and users21:27
dhellmannjust to be clear: AIUI, this repository is a place for us to agree on policy, like the governance repo is for the TC. Once something is approved here, it can be referenced as official. Is that right?21:27
annegentle_dhellmann: Rockyg: I think the loop is closed if I log a doc bug for openstack-manuals to make sure the spec info goes into the Ops Guide21:28
ttxDefinition of log levels, in particular, would appear on both sides21:28
sdaguedhellmann: that's my understanding21:28
annegentle_good enough21:28
dhellmannannegentle_: ok, cool21:28
annegentle_dhellmann: yeah that sounds right to me21:28
devanandadhellmann: my understanding as well21:28
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ttxalright, last comments on that topic ?21:28
Rockygannegentle_ (I'll get your nick right eventuall;) yeah.  So, maybe links between the docs?  We can discuss offline?21:28
Rockygjust caught up again.  ++ Let's give it one more week, let ops folks know, then merge after comments addressed.21:29
ttxok, moving on21:30
dhellmannttx: is the output from this specs repo being published to specs.openstack.org yet?21:30
ttx#topic Discuss openstack-spec: OSProfiler21:30
*** openstack changes topic to "Discuss openstack-spec: OSProfiler (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:30
annegentle_Rockyg: sure, let's start a bug for discussion21:30
boris-42hey hey=)21:30
ttxdhellmann: hmm.. maaaaybe ?21:30
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boris-42ttx: I updated spec and reply on some comments21:30
ttxdhellmann: nothing was approved yet :)21:30
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/134839/21:30
ttxThis is the second cross-project spec that's been posted for a while21:31
ttxso I would like us to make progress on it one way or another21:31
ttxdhellmann and me filed a few questions, but otherwise I suspect most PTLs overlooked it21:31
asalkeldthis is mostly done - right21:31
boris-42ttx: so actually there was a request from dns team21:31
sdagueboris-42: I think there was some general concensus that we wouldn't put release in the paths in the repo21:31
boris-42sdague: oh21:32
* ttx checks rev221:32
boris-42sdague: didn't know, so I will update it21:32
ttxerr rev321:32
sdaguedhellmann: right?21:32
morganfainbergSo I'll review that spec but it looks like a lot of the concerns from the proposed keystone spec will still be relevant there.21:32
* boris-42 sdague: after meeting21:32
dhellmannsdague: yeah, I think we agreed to that after boris-42 submitted this one21:32
boris-42dhellmann: sdague sorry guys I am still on holidays=)21:32
eglynnthere were a lot of reviews of the previous version https://review.openstack.org/103825 ... is the new one pretty much a straight copy of that?21:32
boris-42but I will fix it21:32
morganfainbergAt a glance that is.21:32
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dhellmannboris-42: np, it's an easy change21:33
boris-42eglynn: yep with fixed issues21:33
boris-42eglynn: that was on previous one21:33
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boris-42So actually there is request from desingate team21:33
boris-42to remove agrugments from api-paste.ini21:33
boris-42as we are using CONF file of project we can do that21:33
boris-42I heard that operators hates confs in api-paste.ini ;)21:34
morganfainbergPleas do not add arguments to be consumed from the paste-ini. We have had issues with typing etc from keystonemiddleware and its better to have options all in one place21:34
bknudsonauth_token middleware can get options from api-paste.ini or .conf21:34
morganfainbergEasier to not need all sorts of magic to make it work right when the project conf already does.21:34
boris-42So I'll need to make 2 new releases and some amount of patches to remove them21:34
morganfainbergbknudson: we fixed the issues. But it was a lot of workaround code to do it right.21:35
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ttxMy main objection to it was if there was a performance penalty when turned off, but I guess evaluating "if None" takes negligible time21:36
boris-42morganfainberg: btw guys I can remove data from request that have tokens and credentials and so on21:36
boris-42ttx: actually even when it is turned ON21:36
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boris-42ttx: but not triggered the overhead is same to "If None"21:36
boris-42ttx: so it can be turned of by default imho=) but okay step by step21:37
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morganfainbergboris-42: I'll make sure to comment and we can figure out how to do that as needed. But I think most of the keystone concerns still apply to this spec. I will review in depth later today.21:37
boris-42morganfainberg: thanks21:37
boris-42morganfainberg: if you have any questions just ping me=)21:37
ttxboris-42: who would you say is the main audience for the profiling results ? Ops ? Devs ? Both ?21:38
boris-42ttx: both21:38
boris-42ttx: Ops - when it will be finished and work via Horizon=)21:38
ttxRockyg: so it would also make sense to get ops reviewing this one21:38
boris-42ttx: sure21:38
ttxwant to make sure they would use it21:38
boris-42ttx: so it really helps to debug why part of requests works slow on proudction env21:38
Rockygttx:  Yup.   so I should put this link into the email to the list, too.21:39
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bknudsonI hope it's not keystone that's the slow part.21:39
ttxIt soujnds like a great thing to have overall, I just fail to see the crowd cheering yet21:39
boris-42bknudson: it was=)21:39
boris-42bknudson: in some cases=)21:39
ttxso it doesn't seem to get anyone very excited21:39
boris-42bknudson: but not in all=)21:39
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ttxlast thing we want is to have it in and nobody using it :)21:40
annegentle_boris-42: I just commented inline, but have you considered using x-openstack-request-id for the header rather than another new trace header?21:40
ttxso I would very much like ops to say "THIS please"21:40
boris-42annegentle_: I will add paragraph aobut that21:40
Rockygttx: I don't think you have to worry about no one using it.  Many are, they just don't talk about it.21:40
boris-42annegentle_: why we need new one21:40
boris-42annegentle_: ok?21:40
jogoI am a little alarmed with the number of similar things we have for this: logging, osprofiler, notifcations (for ceilometer) etc21:40
asalkeldttx from a dev pov this is very nice, I have used it quiet a bit21:41
boris-42ttx: it will be usable via rally perf job21:41
annegentle_boris-42: I'd like to avoid more and more headers if possible, it's hard to document and difficult for users to know which is used when. Just wondered if it's usable.21:41
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boris-42annegentle_: yep but in this case it's impossbile (or I don't know)21:41
annegentle_boris-42: ok, just asking if you considered it, then would be nice to explain if it's not possible21:41
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boris-42annegentle_: yep so I agree that it should be noted in spec21:42
annegentle_boris-42: ok, thanks21:42
boris-42ttx: like load + profiling21:42
boris-42ttx: so I think many Devs will use it + I don't know about other companies but in Mirantis guys are wating for osprofiler21:42
boris-42ttx: as zhiyan is helping around integrating it in ohter project21:43
boris-42ttx: and jamespage was interested as well21:43
boris-42ttx: so there are consumers=)21:43
RockygI know some Huawei devs are using it21:43
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ttxboris-42: some teams (keystone?) have been rejecting their own profiler spec, do you remember what their objections were ?21:44
ttxand were steps taken to solve those ?21:44
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eglynnjogo: I don't think ceilometer is intended to scratch the same itch directly, though it does act as the default collector for osprofiler21:44
boris-42eglynn: this is another thing, there are already patches to make MongoDB collector21:45
eglynnboris-42: cool21:45
boris-42but for OpenStack gates and some installation21:45
boris-42it makes sense to have Ceilometer driver cause it simplifes life=)21:45
boris-42ttx: hm need more info=)21:46
devanandawhen I last looked at osprofiler, I raised some questions about its use at public cloud scale21:46
jogoeglynn: right, but we have a several similar itches and a very piecemeal solution to them21:46
devanandaare there any large operators evaluating / using it?21:46
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ttxboris-42: I hear sensitive information leaking was one of those concerns. We certainly don't want to filter that same sensitive information 3 times (in logs, in notifications, in profiling)21:46
boris-42dhellmann: I don't know, it's not well know thing yet21:46
boris-42ttx: Ah about sensitive info21:47
Rockyganither question for the ops list? devananda21:47
boris-42ttx: yep it can be easily removed21:47
bknudsonwe've got rally code in keystone already21:47
boris-42bknudson: so + profiler and ulitmate tool to figth for better perf and scale21:47
morganfainbergTxt boris-42 I'll look at the spec and the one that was proposed for keystone to make sure appropriate comments are echoed in the cross-project one.21:48
morganfainbergI am concerned about needing more custom filtering at each layer.21:48
boris-42morganfainberg: probably I should add more details21:48
boris-42morganfainberg: about how we can remove sensetive info in spec21:48
boris-42morganfainberg: so to make it clear21:48
morganfainbergSure. Like I said I'll comment.21:49
boris-42morganfainberg: like in DB requests don't send args21:49
devanandaboris-42: you said there's a mongodb backend. does that replace the use of ceilometer to store/retrieve profiling data, or augment it?21:49
boris-42devananda: yep we are wokring on that21:49
boris-42devananda: so you'll be able to use directly mongo if you setup your profiler in such way21:49
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boris-42devananda: and that scales very very well21:49
devanandaboris-42: is there support for apache or gpl licensed back ends in the works?21:49
boris-42devananda: cause it's one table with 1 index21:49
morganfainbergdevananda: good question.21:50
ttxboris-42: looks like this one needs a bit more iterations, and ops feedback too. Hopefully this discussion will trigger that21:50
boris-42devananda: nope not at this moment, but as far as we get first backend21:50
boris-42devananda: there will be way to add more of them21:50
devanandaboris-42: indeed. I'm pleased to see a pluggable back end there, like mongodb. but I also know that this limits its use21:50
ttxand make it fly above radar21:50
devanandattx: ++21:51
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ttxSounds like a good idea overall, just want to make sure everyone agrees it's also the right way to do it21:51
ttxalright, last comments on that topic ?21:51
ttxPlease review and comment on the spec to help it move forward21:52
boris-42ttx: thank you for making meeting=)21:52
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boris-42ttx: I will try to add more info to spec during next week21:53
ttxno problem. We'll regularly review proposed cross-project specs during this meeting21:53
annegentle_good topic for cross-project, thanks boris-4221:53
ttx#topic Open discussion & announcements21:53
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion & announcements (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:53
ttxOn release side we had 1:1 syncs today, mostly restarting the engine as we come back from the holiday period.21:53
ttxLogs at:21:53
ttx#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ptl_sync/2015/ptl_sync.2015-01-06-09.02.html21:54
devanandaquestion for other PTLs - how well have split timezone IRC meetings been working for folks?21:54
devanandahas anyone fallen back to a single time slot after trying to split?21:54
morganfainbergProject meetings? Like nova does?21:54
morganfainbergAh keystone still has a single meeting.21:54
asalkelddevananda: works ok for Heat21:55
dhellmanndevananda: ceilometer use to stagger meetings but I don't think they do any more, right eglynn ?21:55
morganfainbergWe haven't tried a split though.21:55
eglynndevananda: we had alternating slots for the ceilometer meeting for a long time, but settled back to a single slot about a year ago21:55
ttxit's a difficult balance. You want to be inclusive, but not split them to the point where they are not reaching critical mass either21:55
devanandabasically, Ironic split a couple months back, but I've seen less attendance overall, and am wondering if it just takes time for folks to adjust21:55
* ttx copypastes snippets of wisdom cross-channels21:55
devanandaor if, by trying to accomodate everyone, we ended up making it harder on everyone ...21:56
asalkeld(6am and 10pm for me tho') - the morning one is a bit quiet from the US21:56
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ttxdevananda: then I'd say come back to single meetings21:56
devanandaeglynn: was there a deciding reason for returning to a single slot?21:56
eglynndevananda: TBH I thought the split caused some loss of context21:56
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eglynndevananda: ... different line-up turning for each alternating meeting21:57
eglynndevananda: ...  but for a wide geo-spread of contributors, could be the only realistic option21:57
asalkeldeglynn: well that is the point21:57
RockygAre both meetings reflected in the calendar?  I only see one, but I have sync issues21:57
devanandaRockyg: both are in the cal, yes.21:57
dhellmannif the point is to sync the team up, it's hard to do that if there are 2 separate groups meeting21:57
dhellmannI thought splitting was meant to put a little of the timezone pain on everyone, not create 2 separate groups of attendees21:58
asalkelddhellmann: yeah, but just totally ignoring part of the team is not good either21:58
dhellmannasalkeld: sure21:58
dhellmannbut when you split, you still want most of the team to come at both times, not create 2 separate groups21:58
devanandadhellmann: right, exactly21:59
eglynndhellmann: true, but for some folks though one of the alternating slots just wasn't possible to attend21:59
dhellmanneglynn: that's ok as long as it's a minority -- you're never going to get everyone to all of the meetings anyway21:59
eglynndhellmann: true that21:59
ttxok, last minute21:59
ttxAnything else, anyone ?22:00
devanandathanks for the perspectives, all22:00
eglynnfor cielometer, we made it harder on ourselves by having the alternating slots on different days of the week also22:00
eglynnleading to a short-week, long-week pattern22:00
ttxok, time to close22:00
ttxthx everyone22:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"22:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jan  6 22:00:59 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)22:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-01-06-21.02.html22:01
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