Tuesday, 2015-02-17

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anteaya#startmeeting third-party08:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Feb 17 08:00:23 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.08:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.08:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)"08:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'third_party'08:00
anteayaif you are here for the third party meeting do raise your hand08:00
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anteayahello lennyb_08:01
anteayaare you setting up a third party ci system?08:02
lennyb_Thanks, My name is Lenny and I joined OpenStack project at Mellanox just recently08:02
lennyb_Yeap, I am working on CI08:02
anteayanice to have you lenny08:02
anteayahow is your setup going?08:02
lennyb_Warse that expected, but better that it could be :). I am working on Nova CI, but it failes with some credential issues.08:03
anteayaswamireddy1: hello08:04
anteayalennyb_: what tools are you using in your system?08:04
swamireddy1I am lokking for 3rd party CI setup ...started with 3rd party CI requirement.08:04
swamireddy1anteaya: Thank you...08:04
anteayaswamireddy1: that is a good place to start08:04
anteaya#link http://ci.openstack.org/third_party.html08:05
anteayaswamireddy1: so you started here?08:05
swamireddy1anteaya: Does any one have the basic req. needed for the 3rd party CI08:05
lennybanteaya: Zuul, JJB, Jenkins. We have Cinder and Neutron CI, so I am trying to duplicate/replicate it08:05
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swamireddy1anteaya: Thanks...08:05
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anteayaswamireddy1: does the page I linked answer your question?08:05
swamireddy1anteaya: Basically I need add the Ceph to CI08:06
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anteayalennyb: nice, yes there are folks from mellanox who have quite a bit of experience, are you in contact with any of them?08:06
anteayaswamireddy1: oh I thought someone was already working on a ci for ceph08:07
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anteayaswamireddy1: how long have you been working on a ci for ceph?08:07
lennybanteaya: Yeap, we are working together, but there is nothing like personal experience :)08:07
anteayalennyb: oh good08:07
anteayalennyb: and yes that is true08:07
anteayalennyb: so you have a credential issue08:07
swamireddy1anteaya: Oh...can you please share the folks who are woking on the ceph CI...please note that ceph + openstack CI08:07
anteayalennyb: has anyone at mellanox seen that issue previously?08:08
lennyb_I will ask today.  All of us have a lot of work :)08:08
swamireddy1anteaya: As of now we have CI setup locally/internally used with ceph + OS...08:09
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lennyb_anteaya: : my issue :  'File "/opt/stack/tempest/tempest/common/credentials.py", line 39, in get_isolated_credentials'08:09
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swamireddy1anteaya: But recently I have added a patch to ceilometer to get the meters from CEPH object storage...so this needs 3rd party CI..08:09
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anteayaswamireddy1: with ceph + operating system? which operating system?08:11
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swamireddyanteaya: OS here is : Opens Stack...sorry08:12
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anteayaopenstack is openstack08:13
anteayaOS is operating system08:13
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anteayaI know there was talk of a ceph ci account some time ago08:13
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anteayabut with the new way of createing accounts I can't seem to find it08:14
anteayaI did however find a puppet-ceph account08:14
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anteaya#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/owner:loic-puppetceph%2540dachary.org+status:open,n,z08:14
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anteayaso it might be worthwhile for you to find that person08:14
anteayaI don't know what their irc nickname is08:14
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swamireddyanteaya: OK..Thanks...sure....will do more work on this area08:15
anteayaswamireddy: what else do you need?08:15
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swamireddyanteaya: Thank you...Qquick Q: In 3rd party CI - do we need to publish the results to public (after runnign the tests)?08:16
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anteaya#info Include a public link to all test artifacts to make debugging failed tests easier (using a dns name over a hardcoded ip is recommended).08:18
anteayathat is from08:18
anteaya#link http://ci.openstack.org/third_party.html#requirements08:19
swamireddyanteaya: Cool...one more Q: 3rd party CI setup in my local env. should I give access to run this setup to out sider or public?08:19
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swamireddyanteaya: sure, will go through these links. Thanks08:19
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anteayathe point of the third party ci setup is that it is self-contained and you are responsible for exactly how it is configured and running08:19
anteayayou can't do that if you give access away08:20
anteayaswamireddy: thanks for asking08:20
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anteayalennyb_: you back yet?08:20
lennyb_anteaya: I am here08:21
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anteayalennyb_: great, you disappered there for a bit08:22
anteayaso your credential issue08:22
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anteayalennyb_: have you shown the stacktrace to others at mellanox yet?08:22
lennyb_anteaya: no, I just logged out of duplicate irc client08:22
anteayaoh I see08:23
swamireddyanteaya:  Thank you. Will come back with my inital work...after a week or so...08:23
anteayaswamireddy: sounds good08:23
lennyb_anteaya: I wil show them the log later today.08:23
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anteayalennyb_: is mellanox aware that gerrit's ip is changing on march 21st?08:24
swamireddyanteaya:  Is this meeting happens on weekly basis??08:24
anteayaswamireddy: yes08:24
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anteayaswamireddy: did you also know gerrit's ip address will be changing on march 21st?08:25
anteayaswamireddy: are you behind a firewall?08:25
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lennyb_anteaya: I am not sure, I will let us know.08:25
anteayalennyb_: okay08:25
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swamireddyanteaya: cool...will join this meeting08:27
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anteayaswamireddy: great08:29
anteaya#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-February/056508.html08:29
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lennyb_anteaya: we are talking about IP change, not DNS name change, correct ?08:33
anteayalennyb_: correct, ip change08:33
anteayathe email I linked above has the ip addresses that will be used as of March 21st08:33
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anteayaany more items to discuss today?08:54
anteayaif not, I will wrap it up08:54
anteayaokay thanks everyone08:55
anteayasee you next week08:55
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"08:56
openstackMeeting ended Tue Feb 17 08:56:10 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)08:56
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-02-17-08.00.html08:56
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openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-02-17-08.00.txt08:56
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-02-17-08.00.log.html08:56
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anteaya#startmeeting nova-net-to-neutron-migration09:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Feb 17 09:00:58 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.09:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.09:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)"09:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova_net_to_neutron_migration'09:01
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anteayamikal gus ping09:01
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anteayajlibosva: I have forgotten her irc nick, is the yahoo developer available, do you know?09:02
jlibosvaanteaya: spandhe ?09:02
anteayathats the one09:02
anteayaspandhe ping09:02
anteayalet's get going09:03
anteaya#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova-nettoNeutronMigration#Agenda09:03
anteayaour agenda09:03
anteaya#topic the state of the Neutron spec (obondarev)09:03
*** openstack changes topic to "the state of the Neutron spec (obondarev) (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)"09:03
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obondarevnot really much to update on the specs side09:04
obondarevI added several comments to the second spec09:04
obondarev#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/14245609:04
obondarevone of them is that I think we won't need a special extension in neutron to get/save data that is special for nova-net09:04
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obondarevwe can continue to use nova db for such fields without any drawbacks09:05
anteayawhat data might that be/09:05
obondarevthe data like integer id field09:05
obondarevor bridge, bridge_interface09:05
anteayawill those ever be used in neutron?09:05
obondarevI believe no09:06
obondarevso that's the idea09:06
anteayawhat might be the point of retaining that data?09:06
obondarevso it will be needed for nova-net wjile we are in a mixed env09:07
obondarevit's about nova-proxy mode09:07
anteayaokay well let's think about that then since we seem to be at an impasse in the proxy department09:08
anteayaso you have some concerns about data09:08
anteayafair enough09:08
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anteayaanything else in the specs for now?09:08
obondarevI believe we should continue to work on the spec and prototyping in parallel09:08
anteayathat feels reasonable to me09:09
anteayaanything more on specs?09:09
obondarevnot from my side09:09
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anteayagreat let's move on09:10
anteaya#topic the state of implementation (obondarev)09:10
*** openstack changes topic to "the state of implementation (obondarev) (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)"09:10
obondarevso for db migration09:10
obondarevI looked through new revision briefly, I still have a concern that we should keep nova-net uuids of resources09:10
obondarevinstead of generating new in neutron09:10
obondarevthat's needed for transparent transition to nova-net proxy09:11
anteayajlibosva: any opinion on uuids?09:11
jlibosvaI just wanted to make it consistent with networks created in neutron.09:11
jlibosvabut if it's needed for proxy09:11
jlibosvai'll remake it09:11
anteayahang on09:11
jlibosvathe thing is nova-net uses integers while neutron uses uuids09:12
anteayaso retaining uuids from nova would make that inconsistent with neutron?09:12
obondarevnot really09:12
obondarevnova-net uses both09:12
obondarevcan see in networks at least09:12
obondarevit has id and uuid09:13
anteayabut is that the deployer's choice?09:13
obondarevso I mean to keep same uuid in neutron09:13
jlibosvabut id is PK, right?09:13
jlibosvalet me check09:13
obondarevanteaya: no, both id and uuid are used at the same time by nova-net09:13
anteayaoh okay09:14
obondarevjlibosva: same for vifs09:14
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anteayaif the choice results in consistency with the rest of neutron after the migration is complete, then I'm fine with the choice09:15
jlibosvaobondarev: but if we'll have neutron db as a source of truth09:15
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obondarevjlibosva: it should still be ok09:16
jlibosvaobondarev: and you want to re-construct e.g. fixed_ip model, you'll need to know network's id09:16
obondarevid can be fetched from nova db09:16
jlibosvaand still fixed ip will be reconstructed from neutron's db09:17
jlibosvaso after migration, I still don't see the point of needing to know the id :)09:17
jlibosvabasically data are migrated, are consistent and previous ids are not relevant anymore09:17
obondarevafter db migration we'll still have nova-net hypervisors09:18
obondarevconfigured for proxy mode09:18
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obondarevthose hypervisors will expect same uuid/id09:18
obondarevas well as users09:18
anteayalet's talk about the proxy actually09:19
anteayasince we seem to have different opinions on that09:19
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obondarevosimple example09:19
anteayaso if we move to look at the proxy patch09:19
obondarevanteaya: go ahead09:19
anteaya#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/150490/09:19
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anteayathis has not got a lot of agreement from nova at the moment09:20
anteayaI had been expecting mikal to attend to help us move forward here09:20
obondarevit's more regarding the approach09:20
anteayabut I'll proceed with my best understanding09:20
anteayaso let's see if we can understand what the concerns about the approach are09:20
anteayaI belive this has to do with interfaces09:21
anteayaand nova would prefer the use of an api09:21
obondarevas I see the concerns are in the level at which to implment the proxy09:21
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anteayaI believe there is actually an api available for interacting with neutron is there not?09:21
anteayaobondarev: yes09:21
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anteayaand nova would prefer using an api09:21
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obondarevthe problem is that we can't just switch to using neutron api in nova right after db migration09:22
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anteayaokay let's just take a minute09:23
anteayadansmith would like nova/network/neutronv2/api.py used09:23
anteayahave we looked at this api?09:23
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anteayawe have09:23
anteayaare we able to use any part of it?09:24
obondarevthat's the api that is used when cloud is configured to work with neutron09:24
obondarevand that api will be used when we switch a hypervisor to neutron09:24
anteayalet's take a minute and look at the logs from the last nova meeting09:24
anteaya#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2015/nova.2015-02-12-21.00.log.html09:24
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anteayatimestamp 21:08:4209:25
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anteayado you understand the points that are being made?09:26
anteayaat this point I don't see the use of having separate meetings09:27
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anteayasince if this meeting has one opinion and the other meeting has another opinion09:27
anteayaand I am the only one that attends both09:27
anteayathat falls down09:27
obondarevI think all opinions should be reflected in the review anywhay09:27
anteayado you think they are at this point?09:28
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obondarevI think yes09:28
obondarevDan's is there09:28
obondarevAndrew's as well09:28
obondarevmine and gus also09:28
anteayaso we have the opinions09:28
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anteayanow how do we get moving forward again09:29
anteayasince the patch is currently -2'd by johnthetubaguy09:29
obondarevI'd like folks to comment on my last comments09:29
anteayawhich folks?09:29
obondarev-2 is for the spec09:29
jlibosvabut that's just because of bp not merged09:29
anteayajlibosva: okay thanks09:29
obondarevjohnthetubaguy wants blueprint for this09:30
obondarevwhich is fair09:30
anteayacan we create a blueprint?09:30
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obondarevbut really the concep is in the patch09:31
anteayayes it is09:31
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obondarevand discussion may proceed09:31
anteayahow do we address the concerns?09:32
anteayadiscussion doesn't feel like it is proceeding to me09:32
anteayaso how do we get it moving again?09:32
obondarevI'd like to see comments on my last replies09:32
anteayacomments from whom?09:32
obondarevDan and Andrew09:32
anteayacan you tell them you would like to see their thoughts?09:33
obondarevas I don't think that proxying at a higher level will be any simpler09:33
anteayaor perhaps ask them what their thoughts are?09:33
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anteayaobondarev: fine09:33
anteayabut convincing me isn't useful09:33
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obondarevthat's what I did on the review09:33
anteayaare you willing to ask dan and andrew to share their thoughts09:33
anteayayes you did09:34
anteayabut we don't have agreement yet09:34
anteayaso we have to try something new09:34
obondarevso I'd like all thoughts be in the review09:34
anteayasomething different09:34
obondarevto have history09:34
anteayathat is fair09:34
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anteayaanything more on this topic then?09:35
anteayaokay thanks, let's move on09:35
anteaya#topic documentation (emagana)09:35
*** openstack changes topic to "documentation (emagana) (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)"09:35
anteayawe have a patch to review09:36
anteaya#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/15594709:36
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anteayathis is the documentation that is intended to accompany sdague, ttx, markmcclain and emagana_ at the ops summit09:36
anteayaso it would be great if you can review it and make sure it is sending the right message to operators09:37
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obondarevwill review09:37
anteayaI do have a concern that the documentation sends readers with questions to ask.o.o, which I don't participate in09:37
anteayaobondarev: thanks09:37
anteayamy preference is that readers with questions attend the meetings09:38
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anteayanot sure how to address that in the documentation though09:38
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anteayaanything more on documentation?09:38
anteayamoving on09:39
anteaya#topic      testing09:39
*** openstack changes topic to "testing (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)"09:39
anteayajlibosva: any movement on testing your db migration patch?09:39
* johnthetubaguy someone mentioned nova blueprints?09:39
jlibosvaI talked to spandhe09:39
anteayajlibosva: awesome09:39
jlibosvashe said she's gonna prepare environment with nova network09:40
obondarevjohnthetubaguy: we were talking about https://review.openstack.org/#/c/15049009:40
jlibosvacurrently they use icehouse, so they will probably need to build  a new one with kilo09:40
anteayajohnthetubaguy: hello yes, we were saying we need to create one for the neutron proxy patch in nova09:40
anteayajlibosva: testing with icehouse should be a good path too09:40
jlibosvaI have no other news since then on whether env is ready or not09:40
jlibosvano, the script is not compatible with icehouse I guess. at least not on neutron side09:41
anteayawe haven't discussed releases but we can't make assumptions about what release deployers are on09:41
anteayajlibosva: oh09:41
jlibosvaI think it will make sense to say "upgrade to kilo first"09:41
johnthetubaguyanteaya: OK, I can help get the paperwork sorted, just hit me up after the meeting09:41
jlibosvaas db schemas vary among releases09:41
anteayajlibosva: is that a reasonable request?09:41
anteayajohnthetubaguy: thank you09:41
johnthetubaguyanteaya: we do actually assume people upgrade only from the previous release, if that helps09:42
jlibosvaanteaya: obondarev what are your thoughts on releases?09:42
anteayajohnthetubaguy: it does, so making a path for kilo only is reasonable?09:42
johnthetubaguyanteaya: yes, that fits our usual upgrade model09:42
obondarevjlibosva: I think we will support Kilo only09:42
jlibosvathat makes sense to me09:42
obondarevjlibosva: at least nova net proxy will be available in kilo09:43
anteayahave we said anywhere that we support kilo only?09:43
johnthetubaguyanteaya: basically it means, people have to upgrade to kilo, then do the migration, which seems OK, in terms of what we normally do09:43
anteayajohnthetubaguy: okay thanks09:43
obondarevjohnthetubaguy: agree09:43
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anteayaso we should say somewhere kilo only09:43
anteayaso perhaps in the spec?09:43
anteayaor should we say prior release?09:44
johnthetubaguy+1 for that being in the spec, for the avoidance of doubt09:44
anteayathen if this drags on we don't have to keep with kilo09:44
anteayacan someone make a comment on the spec to that effect?09:44
anteayajohnthetubaguy: actually since you are here09:45
johnthetubaguyfire away09:45
anteayajohnthetubaguy: can we bother you on your opinion on the proxy patch?09:45
anteaya#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/150490/09:45
anteayait feels stuck to me09:45
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anteayaapart from needing a blueprint09:45
anteayaany thoughts on how we might get unstuck?09:46
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johnthetubaguyyeah, getting aggreement on the spec helps avoid some of these situations09:46
anteayawe are a bit chicken and egg though09:46
obondarevjohnthetubaguy: that's the prototype09:46
anteayasince we were asked to show code for folks to feel comfortable reviewing the spec09:46
obondarevsometimes it's better to have prototype prior to the spec)09:46
johnthetubaguyafter a quick read of dan and andrew's comments, they seem reasonable, I just need to think about more about what I was expecting to see09:46
anteayafair enough09:47
johnthetubaguyobondarev: very true, its often worth a prototype09:47
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johnthetubaguyobondarev: did you get dan's comment on that patch?09:48
johnthetubaguybasically, its cleaner to go up the stack and subclass the nova-net adapter, rather than try to plug in between the DB09:49
obondarevafter reading nova meeting logs I think dansmith may have feeling that the patch is going to be only for network object09:49
johnthetubaguyI think we are saying, its an odd use of objects thats likely to cause problems09:49
johnthetubaguyit would be better to create a whole new API, that subclasses the nova-net one, to share code09:50
johnthetubaguyor something a bit like that09:50
obondarevso from my comment on the patch09:50
obondarevBoth nova-net api and manager are using nova-objects all over the place. So I'm afraid subclassing would mean a significant rewriting of nova-net code (developing/review nightmare!)09:50
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johnthetubaguyI guess we are just not convinced that the alternative will be "enough"09:51
obondarevyou mean enough for all the cases?09:51
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obondarevcurrently it proxies just network object09:52
obondarevbut the plan is to proxy all objects that nova-net operates09:52
johnthetubaguyright, basically, it doesn't seem like it would work09:52
obondarevreplacing the persistence layer from nova to neutron db is all what we're trying to accomplish with the proxy09:53
johnthetubaguyits so low level, theres likely a miss match in the data that layer has for what you need to talk to neutron09:53
johnthetubaguyat least, thats the impression I get09:53
johnthetubaguybut anyways, lets not derail this meeting, I need to read more to give you better answers09:53
anteayado I understand correctly that the suggested way forward from nova is to write a new api?09:53
anteayajohnthetubaguy: actually your thoughts are really helpful, thank you09:54
anteayajohnthetubaguy: we had finished the agenda and are glad to have some light on how to unstick the proxy09:54
obondarevanteaya: my understanding is the same09:54
obondarevand I feel it's a lot harder09:55
anteayaif nova is suggesting this, then we just need to feel we have support for patch review and merging of the new api code from nova09:55
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anteayaobondarev: true, but if this is the only door open, I think we need to consider it09:55
obondarevI think we should continue discussion09:56
obondarevto be sure everybody understands everybody09:56
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anteayawhich is why I am curious to hear if my understanding is correct09:56
anteayaI'm discussing09:56
obondarevI'd really like to hear the case where folks think the approach will not work09:57
anteayaI thought we just did09:57
obondarevI mean particular case09:58
johnthetubaguynetwork['rxtx_base'] thats a really hard one, its implied by the compute flavor, and is a VM global qos setting, if I remember correctly, anyways, we except at the DB later you just can't hide enough details09:58
johnthetubaguylooking in there09:58
obondarevso for such fields09:59
obondarevthe idea is to still use nova db09:59
obondarevI put a comment there on this09:59
obondarevI'll upload new revision09:59
johnthetubaguyso, this isn't a good idea, but it just feels "messy" faking this stuff at that level10:00
johnthetubaguy… so here is the thing10:00
johnthetubaguyyou can go build it this way, and it might work, and we might find the code debt "OK" for now10:00
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obondarevfor such fields nothing will differ in proxy mode10:00
* anteaya listens to johnthetubaguy10:00
johnthetubaguybut the folks that know that code are saying you are likely to hit a snag that means it gets so horrible they would force it to be written the other way10:01
johnthetubaguyits kinda your call which way you want to go10:01
anteayawell it also is code destined for nova10:01
johnthetubaguyI guess those folks are trying to say its likely to be more low risk and neater to hook in at the API level, which a bit of subclassing10:01
anteayaso the solution needs to be acceptable to nova10:01
anteayajohnthetubaguy: I'm hearing you10:02
johnthetubaguyso the current approach may turn out to be acceptable, it just seems very unlikely when we look at the prototype10:02
anteayajohnthetubaguy: how do we get nova to say they will agree to those code changes if submitted?10:02
anteayajohnthetubaguy: or is your word sufficient?10:02
johnthetubaguywe will not, basically10:02
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anteayajohnthetubaguy: nova won't agree to api changes?10:03
johnthetubaguybasically if it works out, and looks good in the end, then all is well10:03
johnthetubaguybut its just that seems unlikely10:03
* anteaya is confused10:03
johnthetubaguyso we wouldn't recommend that approach up front10:03
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johnthetubaguy… let me step back10:03
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johnthetubaguywe are basically saying we don't like the approach, but its only a prototype10:03
johnthetubaguyif we looked at code thats fully features and working, and it looks OK, then we would merge it10:04
johnthetubaguybut we are saying, its looking a lot like it would be horrible looking once its finished, but its hard to tell at this point10:04
johnthetubaguyI guess I am sitting on the fence pointing in the direction we would like you to go10:04
anteayawhich direction are you pointing?10:05
johnthetubaguytowards subclassing the API, like Dan and Andrew recommend10:05
anteayaand if we do that direction10:05
anteayado we have support from nova to get patches reviewed and merged?10:05
anteayafor new api subclasses?10:05
johnthetubaguythats a harder question, we should get core reviews to sponsor you10:06
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anteayahow do we find core reviewers to sponsor?10:06
johnthetubaguythe problem is we are closed to blueprints and features and exception requests at this point in kilo10:06
anteayathis also is my concern10:06
johnthetubaguybut this is a priority thing, so we can look at adding that in, if we get some agreement10:06
anteayacan we work on this with the idea that it won't be merged until L10:06
johnthetubaguyits just, we really need the final code up for review already, if its got a hope of getting merged in kilo10:07
anteayabut we can continue to work on it10:07
johnthetubaguyyep, we totally can10:07
anteayajohnthetubaguy: right I agree10:07
johnthetubaguyah, I got the wrong end of the stick10:07
johnthetubaguybut yes, we can agree this for L10:07
anteayaso at this point, I am floating the idea that we pat ourselves on the back for having something to show ops in kilo10:07
anteayameaning the documentation10:07
johnthetubaguyI think you need to submit the spec for L, and that should help decide things the "normal" way10:07
anteaya#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/15594710:08
anteayaand move toward code for L10:08
anteayado you think that will work for nova?10:08
johnthetubaguymakes sense10:08
johnthetubaguyI don't see a problem with it, but its worth raising in the meeting10:08
anteayathat is the approach I will see if we can get agreement around10:08
anteayasince I think we are putting too much pressure on everyone to have this finished for kilo10:09
anteayawe need to keep working but we need to give ourselves more room to breath10:09
anteayaand we are way over time10:09
anteayathanks everyone for attending10:09
johnthetubaguyhonestly, the problem I have, is rackspace have already done the nova-network to neutron migration a year ago, so I have not really fully engaged in all the bits of the debate10:09
anteayafair enough10:10
johnthetubaguyanyways, we do appreciate seeing progress from the nova point of view, its great10:10
anteayawe are trying, thanks for the support10:10
anteayaany final thoughts?10:10
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johnthetubaguythe problem is when we can remove nova-network from nova, docs is probably not quite enough, but its better than zip, which is great10:10
anteayaokay see you next week, please review the docs patch10:10
jlibosvawill do, thanks10:11
anteayathank you10:11
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"10:11
openstackMeeting ended Tue Feb 17 10:11:11 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)10:11
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_net_to_neutron_migration/2015/nova_net_to_neutron_migration.2015-02-17-09.00.html10:11
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bauzas#startmeeting gantt14:59
openstackMeeting started Tue Feb 17 14:59:50 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is bauzas. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:59
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:59
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gantt)"14:59
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'gantt'14:59
bauzashi, stepping up this time as n0ano can't make it, who's there ?15:00
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bauzaswoah, please all don't speak at the same time :)15:01
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edleafealex_xu and I were way ahead of you15:02
bauzasso, let's start, so people could come15:03
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bauzas#topic Remove direct nova DB/API access by Scheduler Filters15:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Remove direct nova DB/API access by Scheduler Filters (Meeting topic: gantt)"15:03
edleafeSo any ideas on the best way to represent version of the compute node?15:04
bauzasso,  https://review.opernstack.org/138444/ is updated very often, thanks edleafe15:04
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edleafeSince RPC version doesn't seem to fit15:04
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edleafebauzas: I have another update waiting to go, after the results of this meeting15:04
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bauzasedleafe: here I was thinking a x.y.z version is good15:05
edleafeit would seem that rolling compute node updates would have already been a problem15:05
edleafeand that someone would have created a solution15:05
bauzasedleafe: actually, the problem is that the scheduler is still really tied to Nova15:05
edleafebauzas: true15:06
bauzasedleafe: but longer term, that would be an API15:06
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edleafebut in general, compute nodes are rolled out in bunches, not all at once15:06
bauzasedleafe: so considering that's a separate API, in general, clients provide a backwards compatibility by discovering versions15:06
edleafeso the issue of differing behavior should have been a problem at some time, no?15:06
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bauzasedleafe: here, on a longer term, we should imagine a Gantt client able to discover if the Gantt server is having the compute capabilitiy15:07
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bauzasedleafe: at the moment, as we don't have a discovery mechanism, that's just something we pass to the Scheduler15:07
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edleafethe reverse is also true15:07
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bauzasedleafe: reverse of what ?15:08
edleafeif the gantt server is relying on outside entities behaving a certain way, it needs to be able to have a way to verify that15:08
bauzasedleafe: that, I disagree :)15:08
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edleafei.e., gantt server discovering its clients15:08
bauzasedleafe: that's all about capabilities of a given API15:08
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bauzasedleafe: so, if Gantt wants to know Nova capabilities, it will run the Nova client which provides that backwards compatibiltiy15:09
edleafeso you're saying that the gantt server will never be dependent on anything outside of itself?15:09
bauzasedleafe: all the compatibility checks are usually done by the clients15:09
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bauzasedleafe: I'm not saying that :)15:09
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bauzasedleafe: I'm saying that if Gantt has to depend on something else, it will use the "something else" client library for knowing the "something else" capabilities15:10
edleafebauzas: we're not at a pure client/server relationship15:10
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edleafewe're relying on individual compute nodes as the source of truth15:10
bauzasedleafe: right, and that comes up to my point : that's just because the Scheduler is really tied15:11
edleafenot the compute api15:11
bauzasedleafe: right, and it won't change15:11
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bauzasedleafe: meaning that the compute nodes are running a scheduler clien t15:11
edleafethat's what I'm trying to figure out how to deal with. Not the ideal situation in the future15:11
bauzasedleafe: so, we can just consider that the scheduler client is having a version15:11
bauzasedleafe: as it's already the case for Juno, we know that all updates are going thru the client15:12
bauzasedleafe: so bumping a client version seems reasonable15:12
edleafebauzas: bumping the scheduler client version, yes15:12
edleafebut that doesn't help us here15:13
bauzasedleafe: ie. computes provide their stats thru the client, the client is adding a version number to those states15:13
bauzasedleafe: so we keep the release tagging by the scheduler15:13
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edleafeit's adding the same version number to every stats report15:13
bauzasedleafe: incorrect15:13
bauzasedleafe: computes have different scheduler client versions15:14
bauzasedleafe: because the code is run by the compute node15:14
alex_xuI'm confuse on what we expect on Gantt in the future, Gantt poll data and nova also push data to gantt15:14
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alex_xuwe want to poll data or push data?15:14
bauzasalex_xu: the direction is very clear : Gantt won't *poll* data unless exceptional circumstances15:14
edleafealex_xu: in the future, gantt will own the data15:15
bauzasalex_xu: Computes (or others) will push data to Gantt15:15
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lxsliSo we ask compute nodes to write their scheduler client version to DB on startup; then any node sans version which hasn't sent us a message we assume is old?15:15
bauzaslxsli: you got it15:15
edleafelxsli: no, we don't even need the db then15:15
bauzasedleafe: no, we still need DB15:15
bauzasedleafe: because compute updates are going thru the DB now15:16
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alex_xubauzas: but we define interface for sync instances info. We call gatt to tell which instance need updated, then we let gantt poll the updated instance15:16
edleafebauzas: can't the scheduler keep track when it gets stats reports?15:16
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edleafeHost A has client version 1.2.3, host B has 1.2.415:16
bauzasedleafe: that's an async process15:16
edleafebauzas: yes15:16
bauzasedleafe: sched client updates the conductor which updates DB15:16
lxsliedleafe: we need to know whether a node is old on startup, before it gets a chance to update us15:16
edleafeand until a host reports a minimal version, we assume it is old15:16
lxslithat's why we still need the DB afaik15:17
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edleafelxsli: why do we need to know that at startup?15:17
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edleafeif it's old, it won't be sending updates15:17
edleafe(for instances)15:17
lxslibecause a compute node doesn't message us until something changes on it and we need to be able to schedule to it immediately15:17
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edleafewhen the time comes to add instance info to HostState objects, unless we've seen a minimal version for that host, we'll grab the InstanceList ourselves15:18
bauzasedleafe: so you're just saying that we should just consider that if no RPC calls are going from an host, then the host is old - that's cautious :15:18
edleafebauzas: sort of15:18
lxsliwe get the initial InstanceList from the DB, we want that to include whether the node is new so we don't do DB queries for new nodes15:18
edleafebauzas: I'm saying that the compute nodes are sending stats regularly15:18
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bauzasedleafe: I was just seeing that computes periodically update stats to DB using the client, we can tag this client15:18
lxsliedleafe: not regularly - on change15:18
bauzaslxsli: +115:19
edleafebauzas: once we see a minimal version for the client, we know that we are getting instance changes15:19
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bauzasedleafe: that's even better if we tag those stats - just because we're adding a version15:19
bauzasedleafe: anyway, the idea is the scheduler version - maybe the sync method (which I still think it's a bad name, but anyway...) can just report that version15:20
edleafelxsli: if the compute node is new, it will also be sending syncs periodically15:20
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edleafelxsli: so we'll know if we missed something15:20
lxsliedleafe: ahhh the sync - OK, that can work15:21
bauzasgosh, I really dislike the 'sync' word :/15:21
lxslisanity check? :)15:21
edleafebauzas: it's better than 'check_for_same_uuids' :)15:21
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edleafebauzas: or 'are_we_in_sync'15:22
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lxsliOK to sum up - so we assume any node is old unless we've had a sanity check from it, and the scheduler client version contained in that is new enough15:22
bauzasedleafe: anyway, I don't want to nitpick15:22
edleafelxsli: gut_check15:22
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edleafelxsli: that's what I'm thinking15:22
lxsli(where 'new enough' is always true right now)15:22
lxsliThat works for me... we could do a few extra queries in the first minute, but ^^15:23
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bauzasedleafe: that could work - ie. the 'sync' method is just "pass context to the scheduler, incl. version"15:23
edleafelxsli: yes, the startup will always be a little crazy until things settle down and we know what we're dealing with15:23
edleafebauzas: yep15:23
bauzas+1 on it, I don't want to take too much time on that15:24
lxsli+1 woohoo progress!15:24
edleafebauzas: actually, any sync at all means it's new enough :)15:24
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bauzasedleafe: agreed15:24
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bauzasedleafe: adding a version seems reasonable anyway15:24
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edleafethis is great, because it solves the hairy DB problem I was seeing in tests15:24
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bauzaseh eh15:25
edleafesince the ComputeManager isn't going to be writing to the DB at startup15:25
bauzasedleafe: it does :)15:25
bauzasedleafe: because ComputeManager calls RT.update_resource_stats() at startup15:25
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edleafebauzas: but that's already taken care of15:26
bauzasedleafe: anyway, I leave you update the spec15:26
edleafeI don't have to mock out this new call all over the place15:26
lxsliI put a comment on the spec15:26
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lxsliWhat's the next topic?15:26
bauzasedleafe: about the spec, I had one comment about passing the user context as an argument15:26
edleafebauzas: yes15:26
bauzasbasically, I'm not seeing it as an added value15:27
bauzasif the scheduler wants to query its DB, it doesn't need the Nova user context15:27
edleafeso it's not needed for the RPC stuff to work?15:27
edleafeJust looking at the other calls, they all pass in context, 'method_name', **kwargs15:27
bauzasedleafe: nope at all, we are even trying to reduce the number of times we're passing out a context15:27
edleafeok, then I'll take it out15:28
bauzasedleafe: like in the object methods15:28
bauzasedleafe: we're just passing out a context once15:28
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bauzasedleafe: again, I don't want to nitpick, lxsli thoughts ?15:28
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edleafehey, if it's not needed, then I'll take it out15:29
bauzaslxsli raised an NotFoundException15:29
edleafeanything else on the spec?15:29
bauzasok, before we're definitely loosing lxsli, we can move on :)15:29
bauzas#topic Status on cleanup work15:30
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edleafebauzas: need any help on your patch series?15:30
bauzasedleafe: which one ? :D15:30
edleafeany of them!15:30
bauzasdetach-service ?15:30
* edleafe was thinking of detach server15:31
bauzasso, detach-service-from-computenode is in a quite good shape15:31
bauzasbecause I have core support15:31
lxslidan went +A wild :)15:31
bauzasand jaypipes kindly helped me on that one15:31
bauzasI have other BPs15:31
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bauzasisolate-sched-db-aggregates is in a good shape, ie. coding coding coding15:32
bauzasand RequestSpec objectification is currently blocked because of an Image objectification patch15:32
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bauzasso, I'm pretty late to the planning, but I can still handle my work :)15:32
edleafebauzas: how can the rest of us help out?15:32
bauzasedleafe: honestly, not a lot of things15:33
lxsliI have a bit of time too15:33
edleafeok, just checking15:33
bauzasedleafe: as I said, it's all about coding a BP which is quite straightforward :)15:33
edleafeI'm coding my spec as WIP, so when that finally gets approved, the code should be ready, too15:33
bauzaslxsli: you told me this morning about something on the RT objectification, right K15:33
bauzasedleafe: awesome15:33
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lxsliYeah Paul promised we'd help with that but we've been blocked / busy15:34
lxsliI think my migration object chain is pretty OK right now so I was looking for something more to do in that area15:34
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bauzaslxsli: I'm lost with your series, could you just give us the link ?15:35
lxsliSo mine is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/79324/ but I need Jay's https://review.openstack.org/#/c/152689/ before sahid's patch can merge before mine can15:36
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bauzaslxsli: ok thanks, I'm starring those changes15:36
lxsliSo that one will be some time... meanwhile looking for some more RT objectification to help with15:36
bauzaslxsli: there are some patches in review about that15:37
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bauzaslxsli: I saw them in the pipeline from someone named Hans Lindgren15:37
bauzaslxsli: here it is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/149224/15:38
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bauzaslxsli: you can probably help him15:38
lxsliOK I'll have a look, thanks15:38
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bauzasany further things to discuss about the priority BPs or can I open the opens ?15:39
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edleafeopen the opens!15:39
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bauzas#topic Open discussion15:40
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bauzasSo, wazztup ?15:40
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edleafebauzas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tauYnVE6ykU15:41
lxsliIt's just us 4 here right? Maybe not too much15:41
edleafeWe discussed my issues already, so I'm good15:41
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bauzasedleafe: I was exactly on the same video but was too shy to propose it here :)15:41
bauzasedleafe: I'm glad you did :)15:41
edleafebauzas: :)15:42
bauzasok, if crickets, then return15:42
lxsliEarly finish \o/15:42
bauzasthanks all15:42
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:42
openstackMeeting ended Tue Feb 17 15:42:24 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:42
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-02-17-14.59.html15:42
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-02-17-14.59.txt15:42
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-02-17-14.59.log.html15:42
alex_xu\o/ begin my vacation!15:42
bauzasalex_xu: awesome, how long ?15:42
alex_xuone week, China new year15:42
edleafealex_xu: Enjoy!15:42
bauzasalex_xu: Happy new year, btw. !15:42
lxsliHappy New Year :)15:43
alex_xuedleafe: bauzas thanks :)15:43
alex_xulxsli: thanks15:43
bauzasalex_xu: take a good rest :)15:43
bauzassee you all15:43
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boris-42I am here17:04
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boris-42#startmeeting rally17:04
openstackMeeting started Tue Feb 17 17:04:40 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is boris-42. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:04
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:04
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: rally)"17:04
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'rally'17:04
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boris-42to many meeting on one day lol17:04
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andreykurilin_boris-42, it's awful17:05
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msdubovboris-42 cheer up!17:05
boris-42Hi guys17:05
boris-42meteorfox: hey hey17:06
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boris-42so let's disucss the topic of persistance context17:06
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boris-42as far as meteorfox is interested in it17:06
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boris-42meteorfox: this is our roadmap https://docs.google.com/a/mirantis.com/spreadsheets/d/16DXpfbqvlzMFaqaXAcJsBzzpowb_XpymaK2aFY2gA2g/edit?usp=drive_web17:07
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meteorfoxboris-42: thanks17:07
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boris-42meteorfox: 24 point is related to persistance context17:08
boris-42meteorfox: so the idea is to do next17:08
boris-42meteorfox: have command rally context17:08
meteorfoxboris-42: awesome17:08
boris-42meteorfox: that will accept deployment uuid (and context section as now)17:09
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boris-42meteorfox: and just create context that you speicfy (so run only setup() part)17:09
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meteorfoxboris-42: sounds promising17:10
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boris-42meteorfox: and then there will be special context (use_persistance_context: uuid/name)17:10
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boris-42meteorfox: that you are specifinig for each test17:10
boris-42meteorfox: so the issue that we have are next17:11
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boris-421) improving cleanup (to make them separated)17:11
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boris-422) adding some validation stuff (to check that you can actually use persistance context and context that you specify together)17:11
boris-42first is in progress17:12
boris-42another will take some amount of time17:12
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boris-42meteorfox: btw as far as you are in meeting17:12
boris-42meteorfox: do you have something to share from operators side?17:13
boris-42like this stuff?17:13
meteorfoxboris-42: ok, quick questions, perhaps I'm missing some important part, but wouldn't the persistance context create a given context, and every time you run a new task, first validate that such conditions are met, then run the scenario?17:13
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meteorfoxthen have another rally context command that can 'unapply the perstiance context17:13
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boris-42meteorfox: yep it's all in rally context17:14
boris-42meteorfox: you will have rally context list / delete / create / show17:14
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meteorfoxok sounds reasonable17:14
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boris-42meteorfox: so any other thoughts?)17:15
meteorfoxwell, for the sake of the others, I work at Rackspace, currently looking at performance test our private cloud offering with Rally17:15
meteorfoxwe decided to go with the community with this one, and contribute to Rally, instead of re-inventing the wheel17:16
boris-42meteorfox: nice =)17:16
meteorfoxalso, we are very interested in the CI gating integration w SLA17:16
boris-42meteorfox: btw I would like to start work on cloud validation stuff17:17
boris-42meteorfox: like huge parametrized rally task that will check everything17:17
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boris-42meteorfox: I think it should be interesting for you as well. I will make blogpost related to this topic and send to mailing list17:18
meteorfoxboris-42: you mean everything that was specified in the persistence context, right?17:18
boris-42meteorfox: nope it's not related to persistance context17:18
boris-42meteorfox: checking that everything works in openstack17:18
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meteorfoxwouldn't that be outside of the responabilities of Rally?17:19
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boris-42meteorfox: so my thoughts are next17:19
boris-42meteorfox: keeping this task inside the rally will allow operators from various companies to collabarate together17:20
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meteorfoxboris-42: I see your point, but what would constitute a valid deployment?17:20
boris-42meteorfox: what we write in that task. We will specify the load and amount of iterations and SLA criterias based on various parameters17:21
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boris-42meteorfox: amount of controllers, computes, (swift or ceph) and so on17:21
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boris-42meteorfox: if you can run it and it pass => your cloud works well =)17:21
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meteorfoxboris-42: ok, I see what you mean. But this will be highly dependent on how it is deployed, and the hardware used. Maybe have a learning mechanism, that takes a baseline?17:22
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boris-42meteorfox: so this is not thing that can be done for 1 day17:24
boris-42meteorfox: it will require a lot of experiments and so on17:24
boris-42meteorfox: but the result is quite clear simple task that accepts few arguments17:24
boris-42meteorfox: and do all stuff=)17:24
meteorfoxI can envison something that will run several measurements on a reference architecture that you will initially have to run (and possible export the results as a json file), and use that as a baseline, when comparing new deployements17:25
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boris-42meteorfox: so let me write blogpost17:26
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boris-42meteorfox: that can make it simpler for understanding=)17:26
boris-42okay let's move on17:27
meteorfoxthat way I can go to a customer, where I just deployed, and say here's the baseline, you can run rally validation test with this argument, and it will compare your deployment to our baseline17:27
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boris-42meteorfox: so comparing results is differnet topic17:27
meteorfoxboris-42: thanks, let me know when the blog post goes out17:27
meteorfoxboris-42: alright17:27
boris-42meteorfox: so step by step=)17:28
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boris-42#topic cosntant runner refactoring17:28
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boris-42msdubov: hey how is it?)17:28
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msdubovboris-42 hey17:29
msdubovSo let me give a link to the patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/155225/17:30
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msdubovI have tested it a bit (with the abort() functionality implemented)17:30
msdubovand started to provide it with unit tests17:31
msdubovI'm also going to move some common code for constant and rps runners to rally.benchmark.runners.utils17:31
msdubovAnd what will be left is to implement timeouts17:32
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boris-42msdubov: please17:32
msdubovSo this is WIP now, but I believe I'll post an update of this patch tomorrow17:32
boris-42msdubov: don't work on timeouts17:32
msdubovboris-42:Okay, let's move step-by-step!17:32
boris-42msdubov: just unification with RPS17:32
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boris-42msdubov: unit tests17:33
msdubovboris-42: ok17:33
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boris-42msdubov: okay I would like to get this done (without timeouts) in 0.0.2 release17:35
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boris-42Okay let's move to next stuff17:36
boris-42#topic HTML reports17:36
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boris-42amaretskiy: any news related to your big refactoring when it will be ready?)17:36
amaretskiyI'm working on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/146814/17:36
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amaretskiythe job is done, but unit tests17:36
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amaretskiyi will submit patch set in our17:37
amaretskiybut unit tests are still incomplete17:37
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amaretskiyso WIP mark will be removed tomorrow17:37
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boris-42amaretskiy: okay great17:37
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boris-42amaretskiy: I like that amount of code is reduced17:38
boris-42andreykurilin_: I like such refactoring lol17:38
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amaretskiyeven with this nice feature the code is reduced17:38
amaretskiybut i do not know the final amount of code after unit tests are updated17:38
boris-42andreykurilin_: okay17:39
boris-42so let's move to next topic17:39
boris-42#topic Mirantis Rally CI is voting17:39
*** openstack changes topic to "Mirantis Rally CI is voting (Meeting topic: rally)"17:39
amaretskiyi believe we will still have large amount of code removed :)17:39
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boris-42So as you can see now Rally Mirantis CI put +1/-1 to verified17:39
boris-42which is really nice=)17:39
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boris-42meteorfox: btw if you are interested in making Rally third party testing CI17:40
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boris-42msdubov: for Rackspace17:40
boris-42meteorfox: for Rackspace17:40
meteorfoxboris-42: yes, we are17:40
boris-42meteorfox: I mean it will be run against every patch in rally17:40
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meteorfoxboris-42: that's awesome17:41
boris-42meteorfox: so we can ensure that we are not breaking anything related to your specific deployment17:41
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boris-42meteorfox: so the only thing is that it requires hardware=)17:41
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meteorfoxboris-42: I'm thinking in the long-run we can integrate something like that17:42
meteorfoxboris-42: right now, I just want to get numbers :)17:42
boris-42meteorfox: sure sure=)17:42
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boris-42meteorfox: I mean just want to make sure that there is such opportunity17:42
boris-42meteorfox: make sure that you know*17:43
boris-42okay let's move to next topic17:43
meteorfoxboris-42: I think is possible, but I don't have control of those things17:43
boris-42meteorfox: =) nobody has lol17:43
boris-42#topic murano benchmarks17:43
*** openstack changes topic to "murano benchmarks (Meeting topic: rally)"17:44
boris-42rvasilets__: hey hey17:44
boris-42rvasilets__: any news?17:44
rvasilets__It's ready and you can review it. I have tested it a lot of time on devstack17:45
rvasilets__I have nothing to add to it already=)17:45
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boris-42rvasilets__: ok17:47
boris-42msdubov: amaretskiy you should review it as well ^17:47
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boris-42I didn't see too much reviews from you guys on that patch?17:48
msdubovboris-42, Yes, I was mostly concerned with other patches recently17:48
amaretskiywill be done :)17:48
msdubovboris-42, rvasilets__ Will make a review!17:48
boris-42#topic Installing Rally in DevStack in venv17:49
*** openstack changes topic to "Installing Rally in DevStack in venv (Meeting topic: rally)"17:49
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boris-42maybe we should install rally in vevn in devstack?17:49
boris-42otherwise they may occur dependency issues17:49
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boris-42andreykurilin_: amaretskiy msdubov ^17:50
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amaretskiyi like venv17:51
andreykurilin_boris-42: imo, venv is better than some hacks with checking oslo.* versions17:51
msdubovboris-42, amaretskiy, andreykurilin_, Yes, and seems like this isn't going to be difficult17:51
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boris-42the only thing is that we will need to update read the docs17:53
boris-42to tell the users to activate venv17:53
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andreykurilin_also we should add ability to install rally in venv to install.sh script17:54
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boris-42andreykurilin_: there is already abbility17:54
boris-42andreykurilin_: just pass -v17:54
boris-42andreykurilin_: install_rally.sh -v17:55
boris-42andreykurilin_: lol17:55
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boris-42btw I would like to rename it to --virtual17:55
boris-42or --virutal-env17:55
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andreykurilin_because -v associated with --verbose17:56
andreykurilin_for me17:56
amaretskiyimho --virtual is confusing17:56
amaretskiy--venv or --virtualenv17:56
boris-42--venv I think17:56
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boris-42sounds the best17:56
andreykurilin_we can support both options --ven and --virtualenv17:56
boris-42andreykurilin_: ok17:57
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boris-42we should end meeting17:57
boris-42so thank you guys17:57
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boris-42andreykurilin_: mreeee meetings?17:57
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boris-42andreykurilin_: they took our time?)17:57
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boris-42So guys see you in rally chat17:57
boris-42meteorfox: thank you for attempting meeting17:58
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:58
openstackMeeting ended Tue Feb 17 17:58:16 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:58
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-02-17-17.04.html17:58
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-02-17-17.04.txt17:58
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-02-17-17.04.log.html17:58
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stevemarkeystone meeting starting -- pinging -- dolphm, ayoung, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, nkinder, lloydm, shrekuma, ksavich, hrybacki, rharwood, grantbow, vdreamarkitex, raildo, rodrigods, amakarov, ajayaa, hogepodge, breton, lhcheng, nonameentername, samueldmq, htruta, amolock, wanghong, dims, dims__,17:59
lbragstadstevemar: hey17:59
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stevemargive it a few more seconds, let folks trickle in17:59
ayoungstevemar, you keep runnning these meetings and we'll make you PTO when morganfainberg has had enough.  Beware.17:59
stevemarayoung, don't scare me like that18:00
marekdayoung: PTO == Project Team (?) ?18:00
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morganfainbergo/ somewhat here.18:00
lbragstad++ Overload18:00
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stevemaralright, i think we have enough18:00
stevemar#startmeeting keystone18:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Feb 17 18:00:54 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is stevemar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:00
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stevemar#topic kilo targeted specs18:01
*** openstack changes topic to "kilo targeted specs (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:01
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stevemarmorganfainberg brought this up, Specs Targeted for Kilo that have not been started / have significant progress by 2/24 are subject to being punted until Liberty18:01
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stevemarI tried to make a summary of the items here18:02
marekdstevemar: Specs or implementation ?18:02
stevemarmarekd, impl.18:02
morganfainbergmarekd, implementation18:02
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stevemarthere are some that are not started (tokenless auth, domain config in sql)18:02
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gyeeso who's working this weekend?18:03
stevemarand we have a lot of bps that have not yet landed, so the amount of reviewing will be compounded18:03
gyeestevemar, tokenless review will be posted today18:03
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gyeetoday = before midnight PST18:03
stevemarwhy does no one ever want to punt stuff :)18:03
henrynash(oops, sorry I’m late)18:03
morganfainbergthis is just a heads up18:04
morganfainbergif you want it to land in K, get it started18:04
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gyeemorganfainberg, you just need something that complies right :)18:04
morganfainbergwe have very little time left18:04
marekdstevemar: i think you skipped one, I will update etherpad, ok?18:04
stevemar++ if it's a new feature that's going into K, have something up by 2/2418:04
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morganfainbergreal implementation (not just POC/strawman) by 2/2418:05
morganfainbergwe're running out of time in k318:05
morganfainbergand k3 is Feature Freeze18:05
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stevemarmorganfainberg, did you want to talk about the next topic if we're done with this one?18:06
morganfainbergno slipping things in past k3 (without extremely good reasons, and most of these specs can wait)18:06
morganfainbergstevemar, sure18:06
ayoungcut abfab.  We've seen nothing from those folks18:06
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stevemar#topic liberty spec proposals18:06
*** openstack changes topic to "liberty spec proposals (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:06
ayounggyee, are you actively working on X509?18:06
* ayoung too slow...18:06
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morganfainbergayoung, we're not specify specs we're cutting today, just warning people to get moving18:06
stevemarayoung, yeah, it's just a matter of time time abfab is cut, and gyee said he'll have something up by tonight18:06
morganfainberganyway, Liberty specs will open once K3 is cut18:07
gyeeayoung, I am mentoring a fellow to get it implemented18:07
morganfainbergthe idea is I want to avoid what is happening right now next cycle (PTL or not)18:07
ayoungOK...Liberty specs:  just submit all specs to backlog first18:07
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morganfainbergayoung, the point i'm making is as of K3 you can start proposing them to be moved to the liberty target18:08
ayoungwe'll promote something to a "lizardbreath"  er "liberty" spec after it is approved for backlog18:08
morganfainbergthe goal is to avoid this "cram everything into milestone 3" effect we have going on now18:08
stevemaryeah, we'll make the necessary changes to specs, should be quick18:09
morganfainbergI'm frankly worried about the quantity and i think the road to RC is going to be rocky this cycle18:09
ayoungmorganfainberg, I think you guys are starting to see the perspecive I developed about a year and a half ago:  we really need to lead the summit come the close of M3 in order to be able to progress.18:09
stevemarayoung, yeah, we are slow out of the gate for some reason18:09
morganfainbergayoung, i think we're going to FF next cycle at milestone 2, spec freeze at milestone 1, so the summit really is almost ½ a cycle from when we start accepting specs being proposed against liberty target18:10
morganfainbergbut more on that once we hit milestone 3 this cycle.18:10
ayoungstevemar, well, I think we are getting more deliberate. Its frustrating, but also the sign of a mature-ish project18:10
dstanekthis cycle may have been timing because of the holidays shortly after the summit18:10
ayoungmorganfainberg, exactly18:10
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ayoungdstanek, its been that way every year, though18:10
stevemarayoung, ++18:11
ayoungDecember comes and suddenly....whooosh18:11
morganfainbergnothing here is set in stone, just some thoughts - the only thing i'm aiming for is specs can be targeted before we hit the end of this cycle.18:11
lbragstadwe also bumped the spec dates up this release18:11
morganfainbergok thats it.18:11
ayoungM2 is starting at us.18:11
lbragstadmaybe it will take a release to two to get used to it18:11
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stevemarwe will probably hash this out at the summit18:11
stevemar#topic Reminder: Review Code18:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Reminder: Review Code (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:12
morganfainbergstevemar, we will probably hash this out before we end this cycle ;)18:12
ayoungSo...I think we are acually on a really good trajectory.  We've had the specs out for a while...we can have  spec approve push at the summit, with an eye to hitting the ground running afterwards18:12
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ayounghaving a really dep backlog will help.  Pre-approved specs that are ready for impl come the end of the bug fix cycle18:12
stevemar#link https://gist.github.com/dolph/651c6a1748f69637abd018:12
morganfainbergIt's scary looking ^^18:12
stevemardolphm, and morganfainberg set up this gist, and it's getting to look scary18:13
morganfainbergthat is currently the reviews for "approved" specs.18:13
stevemarthis is without stuff that hasn't been started, or (potentially) the AE (whatever it's named now) token spec18:13
morganfainbergand osme of those haven't even been started or are missing large swaths of patches (50%+)18:13
stevemarso please please please rview18:13
ayoungmorganfainberg, I'm wondering if we can punt on domain-as-project as a requirement for reseller18:13
dolphmhow many of those should be marked WIP that aren't?18:13
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ayoungthe more I think about it, the more I am convinced that, while it would have been right from the get go,  it will be easier to just work around it18:14
morganfainbergdolphm, any of those i marked were not abandoned, maybe 1 was WIP, and a couple were merge conflicted18:14
morganfainbergdolphm, but doesn't diminish priority18:14
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stevemardolphm, not as many as you would hope18:14
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dolphmstevemar: well i want them all to be polished, ready-to-merge code18:15
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samueldmqayoung, we have a sort of backlog to organize code implementation around reseller (using domais as project ofc)18:15
samueldmqayoung, raildo can talk to ou later :)18:15
stevemardolphm, we all want that, but the only way there to get there is to review :)18:15
raildoayoung: sure18:15
morganfainbergdolphm, the point is i think we need to punt things so we can get that list more sane. i made the list look awful on purpose to show how far behind we are based upon what is approved18:16
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ayoungsamueldmq, raildo happy to talk after meeting on that.  Let's get that one moving, cuz it is otherwise close18:16
morganfainbergdolphm, and not as many as you'd think were simple rebase away from being ready for review18:16
samueldmqayoung, ++18:16
morganfainbergdolphm, most were/are reviewable :(18:16
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raildoayoung: yes, we have few days, but I think that we can do that.18:16
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stevemarand the more people we have working on new things this week, the less reviews we have18:17
morganfainbergwe're behind is the point18:17
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gyeepoint taken18:17
morganfainbergand we need to eliminate things from that list and from the approved spec list (most likely)18:17
samueldmqmorganfainberg, ++18:18
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stevemarand we're more than a little bit behind18:18
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stevemar#topic Reminder: Triage Bugs18:18
*** openstack changes topic to "Reminder: Triage Bugs (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:18
stevemar#link http://keystone-weekly-bug-report.tempusfrangit.org/weekly-bug-reports/keystone-weekly-bug-report.html18:19
ayoungshoul we set a mentor for each major feature to get the first +2 in?18:19
raildoayoung: ++ I like that idea.18:19
ayoungdangit I can't keep up18:19
henrynashstevemar: ok, so I recommend punting on the extra-disable bp idea….that can wait till L18:19
samueldmqayoung, ++ not bad idea18:19
lbragstadayoung: I don't know, that can deter other people from looking at it18:20
gyeeayoung, ++ for review czar18:20
ayounglbragstad, easier to get people to look when it has a +218:20
lbragstadbut not when other people still find issues with the code18:20
lbragstadwhat looks fine to one person might not look fine to everyone,18:20
ayounglbragstad, also, it will help to ensure *someone* is looking at the code18:20
samueldmqbut still better than having nobody looking at that code18:20
ayoungI'll take reseller18:21
samueldmqayoung, ++18:21
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ayoungI'll also take websso portal18:21
gyeeconflict of interest?18:21
jacorobayoung: guess means what exactly you mean by “mentor”18:21
ayoungand mapping enhancements...all those are of interest to out group18:21
lbragstadI think we've established we're behind and need to review anyway18:21
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ayoungjacorob, someone that stays on the review until they are comforatble giving it a +218:21
morganfainberglets not say mentoring is required here. simply review.18:22
bknudsonnova actually requires cores to sign up to review the changes for the bp.18:22
ayoungjacorob, prioritizion18:22
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lbragstadmorganfainberg: ++18:22
ayoungmorganfainberg, not required.18:22
amakarovlbragstad: what can we do motivate people to -1 +2'ed CR's?18:22
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morganfainbergbknudson, something we should probably consider once we're a bit less under water, right now limited mentoring is likely going to hurt us more imo.18:22
morganfainbergamakarov, it depends on the reason for the -1.18:23
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lbragstadamakarov: not sure I understand the question18:23
ayoungAnyway.. I'll commit to staying on those 3.  If you are an author on those...feel free to bug me18:23
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stevemarayoung, ++ you hit it there, let the author decide18:23
amakarovmorganfainberg: if it is a reason of course :)18:23
stevemarif you are authoring a patch and feel the need for a review buddy speak now18:23
morganfainbergamakarov, if its a real concern, -1. if it's a nit pick, please don't minus 1, at worst no-score with comments.18:23
stevemaror ping later on -keystone18:23
raildoayoung: I appreciate that!18:24
lbragstadmorganfainberg: amakarov or propose a follow on patch fixing that you think needs to be fixed18:24
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ayoungOK...we ready to move on to bugs?18:24
amakarovmorganfainberg: I'm about the idea that +2'ed CR's attract attention18:24
morganfainbergbug list is looking better.18:24
stevemar#link http://keystone-weekly-bug-report.tempusfrangit.org/weekly-bug-reports/keystone-weekly-bug-report.html18:24
morganfainbergit was really ugly last week18:25
stevemarjust a handful of new bugs18:25
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morganfainberga few more eyes will help keep it in check18:25
morganfainbergwe got behind around the holidays and didn't pick back up18:25
ayounglooking at 4. [Undecided:New] Bug #1421966 in Keystone: "Getting role for trust is double-protected"18:25
openstackbug 1421966 in Keystone "Getting role for trust is double-protected" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1421966 - Assigned to Lin Hua Cheng (lin-hua-cheng)18:25
morganfainbergso, keep eyes open, if there is a bug in "new state" [even if it's prioritized], please take a gander and get it triaged.18:25
morganfainbergthe goal is to have bugs not in "new" and with a priority18:26
gyeedouble-protected? that security or what18:26
stevemari'll need to look at the notification one18:26
samueldmqmorganfainberg, can everyone triage bugs?18:26
ayoungMy kneejerk reaction, though, is that none of those would be stop ship-bugs, so lets focus on features until freeze18:26
bknudsonI went through the policy.json to add comments, and found a few problems so opened bugs...18:26
lbragstadsamueldmq: yes18:26
bknudsonsince I didn't have time to work on all of them.18:26
morganfainbergayoung, triage the bugs, don't need to fix them18:26
gyeebknudson, double-protected is a special feature18:26
samueldmqlbragstad, ok thx18:26
morganfainbergayoung, but triaging them early means if we need things fixed because they are major we can make sure we land that ASAP18:27
morganfainberge.g. the unicode issue w/ the mapping of ids18:27
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morganfainbergthat was a major bug18:27
morganfainbergand needed a backport to juno18:27
stevemarayoung, yeah, i agree with you there, none appear to be stop ships, and we should focus on features, but as morganfainberg says, we should triage at least18:27
morganfainbergit also gives people things to do when they get stuck on features and want to look at something else18:27
stevemarbored of keystone? try more keystone!18:28
morganfainberg(after they've code reviewed)18:28
morganfainbergon to the really important topics for the meeting18:28
stevemaryes, the one everyone is here for18:28
stevemar#topic SPFE for Keystone Lightweight Tokens18:28
*** openstack changes topic to "SPFE for Keystone Lightweight Tokens (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:28
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stevemar#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/130050/18:29
stevemarIt's time to vote on Keystone lightweight tokens, and wether or not we allow an exception for the code to land in Kilo.18:29
lbragstadsaid code https://review.openstack.org/#/c/145317/18:29
gyeeAE got renamed to lightweight now?18:29
stevemargyee, yep18:29
lbragstadwe are signing or encryption18:29
morganfainberggyee, yes, it is a framework for tokens, and does not require encryption.18:29
lbragstadso people didn't want to have a specific name18:30
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gyeethat's fine18:30
stevemarSupermajority vote will decide the outcome, so 8 / 12 spec-cores must vote yes.18:30
lbragstadfunctionality doesn't change18:30
morganfainbergeven if you're not a spec-core please feel free to vote.18:30
stevemari think everyone is familiar with the spec - at least on a high level18:30
bknudsonno filibustering.18:30
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gyeedoes keyczar scale?18:30
stevemaryes, thanks morganfainberg18:30
dolphmlbragstad: if we go with cryptography.fernet instead of python-keyczar, there's only a recipe for encryption afaik18:30
stevemarbknudson, no, not for this item, maybe next time18:30
lbragstadgyee: dolphm has a commit based on mine that doesn't rely on keyczar18:31
topolI vote for allowing an exception.18:31
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morganfainbergyour votes will not be ignored, but if no one but cores votes it's a 8/12 spec core.18:31
morganfainbergstevemar, please use #vote18:31
dolphmso we'd have to implement our own signing if we go that way18:31
stevemartopol, wait for the actual vote to start!18:31
stevemar#startvote Allow Keystone lightweight tokens a SPFE? Yes or No.18:31
openstackBegin voting on: Allow Keystone lightweight tokens a SPFE? Valid vote options are Yes, or, No, .18:31
openstackVote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.18:31
lbragstadso that means we'd have to roll our own signing18:31
dolphm#vote Yes18:31
bknudson#vote Yes18:31
gyeelbragstad, I wonder if it can scale horizontally or across regions18:31
marekd#vote yes18:31
dstanek#vote Yes18:31
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henrynashare teh marked experimet nal?18:31
stevemar#vote Yes18:31
lbragstad#vote yes18:31
morganfainberg#vote yes18:31
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amakarov#vote Yes18:31
dolphmsomeone please vote "or"18:31
gyeewith a shared HMAC secet18:31
morganfainberg#vote or18:31
lbragstadgyee: that depends on how you use it18:31
jamielennox#bote yes18:31
ayoung#vote Yes18:31
anteaya#vote or18:32
jamielennox#vote yes18:32
morganfainberghenrynash, that can be a stipulation, i'm ok with that.18:32
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gyee#vote yes18:32
breton#vote yes18:32
morganfainberganteaya, ++ *hi5*18:32
lhcheng#vote Yes18:32
samueldmq#vote yes18:32
anteayaha ha ha18:32
topol#vote  Yes18:32
lbragstadgyee: if you're feeling ambitious you could write an interface to something that stores your keys and replicates them18:32
bretonsomeone can vote .18:32
breton#vote .18:32
openstackbreton: . is not a valid option. Valid options are Yes, or, No, .18:32
lbragstadgyee: to sql or whatever.18:32
henrynash(provided this fucntionality is marked as experimenatl): #vite yes18:32
breton#vote yes18:32
henrynash(provided this fucntionality is marked as experimenatl): #vote yes18:33
morganfainbergbreton, denied on the '.' vote18:33
gyeelbragstad, I was think barbican or some other KMS18:33
stevemarhenrynash, nice touch18:33
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morganfainberghenrynash, (you need to start the line with #vote)18:33
stevemarit should be started as experimental18:33
atiwaristevemar, what is this vote for?18:33
henrynash#vote yes18:33
atiwarisorry I missed it18:33
lbragstadgyee: I checked with the barbican folks and they don't have something in place yet, but they said that we should go talk to them once we have a solid use case,18:33
dolphmlbragstad: like, secrets as a service?18:33
lbragstaddolphm: right18:33
morganfainbergatiwari, allowinfg the exception for the AE token spec (renamed KLWT)18:33
stevemaratiwari, allowing keystone light weight tokens an exception to land in Kilo18:33
jamielennoxthere's something a bit recursive about relying on barbican from keystone18:34
morganfainbergatiwari, not the approval, just the allowed exception beyond the freeze18:34
ayoungatiwari, SPFE for the AE tokens18:34
dolphmlbragstad: import barbican as keystone_secrets18:34
morganfainbergmeaning i remove my -2.18:34
morganfainbergand lbragstad works to quickly solve all outstanding issues with the spec.18:34
morganfainbergand then code18:34
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ayoungmight I also suggest that we expedite approving the spec, with a caveat that we will allow corrections of a minor sort afterwards...18:34
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morganfainbergayoung, the goal is the spec should be approved within a couple days max18:35
stevemaratiwari, vote with #vote Yes or #vote No18:35
atiwariayoung, morganfainberg IMO it is not ready for kilo18:35
lbragstadI don't want to spend time fixing little things with the spec18:35
lbragstadI'd rather work on the code18:35
atiwari#vote NO18:35
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morganfainbergatiwari the whole concept or just some implementation details18:35
gyeelbragstad, ++, its conceptually sound18:35
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stevemari think that's everyone18:35
openstackVoted on "Allow Keystone lightweight tokens a SPFE?" Results are18:35
openstackYes (15): gyee, lbragstad, ayoung, lhcheng, bknudson, topol, marekd, dstanek, dolphm, jamielennox, henrynash, amakarov, samueldmq, breton, stevemar18:35
openstackor (2): anteaya, morganfainberg18:35
openstackNo (1): atiwari18:35
morganfainbergatiwari, this is a vote on concept / general direction.18:35
morganfainbergok so that shows a clear majority that the exception should be granted18:36
stevemar#agreed Keystone lightweight tokens will be granted an SPFE18:36
atiwariit is leaning toward HMAC signature18:36
morganfainberglbragstad, i'll remove my -2, please work to address the issues in the spec.18:36
morganfainbergatiwari, it is focused around that.18:36
lbragstadmorganfainberg: will do18:36
ayoungatiwari, I think we can build toward your concept for HMAC tokens based on this spec.  We can discuss later.18:36
morganfainbergatiwari, but not exclusively18:36
atiwariand IMO it is proposing the weak signature18:36
lbragstadatiwari: you can still HMAC sign18:36
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morganfainberglbragstad, you *will* HMAC sign in it's current form ;)18:37
lbragstadyeah, we discussed that18:37
morganfainberganyway, so please do not -1 for nit-picky stuff18:37
morganfainbergon that spec18:37
morganfainbergplease -1 for real concerns18:37
morganfainbergand work with lbragstad to address them, the -2 will be lifted at the end of the meeting18:37
gyeelets do double-hmac for double-protection18:37
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atiwarimorganfainberg, can we get more reviews on HMAC stuff?18:37
ayoungatiwari, so one thing this will give us, beyond the ephemeral tokens, is that we will start deploying a very succint token format.  That alone is necessary for the HMAC proposal18:38
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morganfainbergatiwari, your spec or lbragstad's. your spec is proposed to backlog meaning earliest liberty, lbragstad's is currently prioritised for kilo.18:38
morganfainbergatiwari, i think we can discuss how to make it work on both sides as we progress towards the next cycle. lbragstad's is a starting place and i expect to see enhancements next cycle to it / things built on top of it18:39
ayoungonce we have this one deployed, we could then make use of the internal format for distributed token validation, ie.  Your HMAC spec.    We had discussed Id-only-tokens in the past, with a fetch-and-cache  strategy for all the expanded data18:39
stevemarlbragstad and dolphm have a PoC (probably past PoC at time point) so that helps too18:39
ayoungso I see this as complementary, and even required, for the HMAC approach you wrote up.18:39
morganfainbergayoung,++ it compliments the HMAC spec, at worst is is the building blocks to get us there.18:40
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atiwariok, ok18:41
stevemarand now another SPFE...18:41
stevemar#topic SPFE for Recursive Delete / Disable18:41
*** openstack changes topic to "SPFE for Recursive Delete / Disable (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:41
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stevemar#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/148730/18:41
samueldmqraildo, ^18:41
raildoWe are proposing this spec, In there we detail how will work recursive deletion and disabling for projects (and domains), these changes would ease a lot the way operators handle deployments using projects/domains hierarchies, the implementation changes are not big and we believe it could easily land in Kilo if the spec was approved.18:41
stevemari'll admit i didn't know this was up18:41
bknudsonthis one depends on another spec18:42
stevemarbknudson, yes, it seems to depend on the reseller one18:42
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samueldmqraildo, does it depends on reseller?18:42
stevemarraildo, does this one depend on the reseller code changes?18:42
raildostevemar: yes18:42
ayoungif we grant it a SPFE, it just means that it *can* go into this release, not that it *must*  right?18:43
raildostevemar: no, this spec just depend the the reseller spec18:43
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morganfainbergayoung, correct18:43
raildobut not the code18:43
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ayoungI think this one is safe18:43
ayoungit will fall into place fairly easilky once reseller is set18:43
stevemarayoung, right18:43
morganfainbergayoung, it could be moved to liberty just like any other approved spec (or it may not get approved because it has issues)18:43
ayoungand we have significant portions of the code implemented, right raildo ?18:44
raildoayoung: yes, we are finishing the migration implementation and using the project API to create a is_domain project18:44
ayoungany reasons to deny the extension?18:45
raildoI intend to send the patches tomorrow and update the other patch18:45
stevemar#startvote Allow recursive deletion and disabling for projects? Yes No18:45
openstackBegin voting on: Allow recursive deletion and disabling for projects? Valid vote options are Yes, No.18:45
openstackVote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.18:45
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raildo#vote yes18:45
marekd#vote YES18:45
stevemar#vote Yes18:45
breton#vote yes18:45
samueldmq#vote yes18:45
ayoung#vote or18:46
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openstackayoung: or is not a valid option. Valid options are Yes, No.18:46
gyee#vote yes18:46
ayoung#vote yes18:46
jamielennox#vote yes18:46
stevemarayoung, i learned this time!18:46
morganfainbergayoung, stevemar learned18:46
topol#vote yes18:46
dstanek#vote Yes18:46
morganfainberg#vote yes18:46
* ayoung should have tried last vot18:46
amakarov#vote ,18:46
openstackamakarov: , is not a valid option. Valid options are Yes, No.18:46
henrynash#vote yes18:46
morganfainbergamakarov, hehe18:46
amakarov#vote yes18:46
stevemarokay, this one looks like a done deal18:46
openstackVoted on "Allow recursive deletion and disabling for projects?" Results are18:46
openstackYes (13): gyee, dstanek, ayoung, morganfainberg, topol, marekd, samueldmq, jamielennox, amakarov, henrynash, raildo, breton, stevemar18:46
gyeespit and shake on it18:47
stevemar#agreed recursive delete will be granted an SPFE18:47
stevemarmorganfainberg, please lift your -218:47
stevemaralright cool stuff coming up!18:47
stevemar#topic Vancouver Summit Session Breakdown18:47
*** openstack changes topic to "Vancouver Summit Session Breakdown (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:47
stevemar#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-January/054122.html18:47
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stevemarThere will once again be changes to the design summit, i think for the better.18:47
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stevemarfishbowl sessions, which are similar to the usual design session, these have projectors and plenty of room 100-300 people18:47
stevemarworking sessions, which are more board room style, meant to replace project pods, (20-40ppl sized) for hacking on stuff18:47
stevemarmorganfainberg is aiming for 4 fishbowl and ~8 working sessions, leaving us time to wander over to talk to other projects18:48
stevemari really like the idea of the working sessions, seems like a mini-meetup18:48
ayoungHotels have been posted...reserve your rooms18:48
morganfainbergwe could easily go as high as 5 fishbowl, and 10 working18:48
morganfainbergbut i'd like to keep the numbers lower18:48
morganfainbergunless people feel like there is a real reason to ask for more spaces18:48
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morganfainbergi felt like paris summit we were a little light on topics so some stuff filled in (it worked) but this is a bit more structure18:49
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morganfainbergi'm also asking for a full-day meetup on friday (vs. the ½ day we got in paris)18:49
morganfainbergin lieu of the more working sessions/fishbowls18:49
stevemarwe usually have a few major topics that people want to talk about, thats what fishbowl is for18:49
stevemar++ for full day18:49
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ayoungSchedule your flights out saturday morning so we actually get the whole day, please18:49
morganfainbergso if we get full day on friday, 4 fishbowl / 8 working would be good.18:50
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ayoungUnless you are on the West coast, or doing a red eye, but stay through the finish line18:50
morganfainbergand we will have plenty of "bug other projects / go to other fishbowls"18:50
atiwarimorganfainberg, ayoung is it ok to implement a solution with "HMAC token" by kilo as an exception?18:50
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marekdstevemar: what are fishbowls by summit definition?18:51
ayoungatiwari, let's talk after this meeting...it depends on a few things18:51
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morganfainbergatiwari, i would be worried about any other SPFEs at this point. it's really late in the cycle18:51
morganfainbergmarekd, the same as our summit sessions we had in paris18:51
marekdmorganfainberg: ok :=)18:51
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ayoungthe short of it is that HMAC by itself won't heal the ills of PKI tokens.18:51
morganfainbergok so i'm going to ask for 4/8 + full friday.18:51
gyeethey are going to pump more oxygen into the rooms this time right?18:51
morganfainbergand move that to 5/10 if we can't get the full day on friday18:51
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ayounggyee, that fresh Candian Air, pumped down from Bampf18:52
gyeewhere were hardly room to stand at Paris18:52
ayounggyee, we knew that Paris was going to be crowded.  Suspect Vancouver will not have the shortcoming.18:52
morganfainbergok lets give time for the last topic18:52
stevemar#topic Open Discussion18:53
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:53
stevemar#topic GSoC 201518:53
*** openstack changes topic to "GSoC 2015 (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:53
samueldmqdims__, ^18:53
dims__We are looking for Project ideas and mentors for Google Summer of Code - https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/GSoC201518:53
marekd#yay GSOC!18:53
* topol I hope I don't get stuck smuggling ketchup chip back in at the border18:53
ayoungDynamic Policy has many subspecs.  Would suggest starting there18:53
samueldmqayoung, ++18:54
stevemartopol, you must bring back all the goodies i mentioned on twitter18:54
marekdkicking ass auth plugins in keystoneclient18:54
dims__thanks ayoung18:54
ayoungalso,  there are parallel efforts for a GsoC project from http://adam.younglogic.com/2014/10/who-can-sign-for-what/18:54
stevemarmarekd, ++18:54
dstanekdims__: i've mentored before and i'd do it again if there was a need18:54
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marekdi mean, general framework for auth plugins.18:54
dims__dstanek: mind if i add your name on a wiki?18:54
samueldmqI am a candidate to mentor a project, I will look into those ayoung ideas and then submit a couple of ideas that fit the gsoc schedule18:54
stevemarmarekd, are you signing up for it? :)18:54
dims__thanks samueldmq18:54
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ayoungthat second one assumes PKI tokens, which is less of a viable option with AE.  Would probably recommend the dynamic policy one to start18:54
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jamielennoxmarekd: what's missing? :)18:55
marekdstevemar: i would like to, but i am fearing i might not have time for that. Was just giving some ideas :(18:55
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stevemarmarekd, fair enough!18:55
dstanekdims__: not at all18:55
dims__marekd: we need ideas too, anything you can throw in the wiki link is appreciated18:55
ayoungdims__, I'm willing to as well, but I might have an intern this summer which would probably eat up my mentoring budget18:55
dims__ayoung: ack, let's see how many people show up with security skills18:56
dims__thanks everyone!18:56
stevemardims__, thanks for reaching out18:56
marekdjamielennox: this very old idea where ou have complex auth plugin (say, SAML2 one), but would need to be able authN method between you and Identity PRovider (BasicAuth hardcoded today)18:56
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stevemar#topic open discussion18:56
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:56
jamielennoxmarekd: yea - we're getting there, missing some discovery on the server side yet18:57
stevemaranyone else have something they want to chat about, or we can end things a bit early?18:57
samueldmqstevemar, I have a bp for for no-spec require status18:57
marekdjamielennox: i think there is nothing to do with the server.18:57
samueldmq#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/assignment-manager-cleanup18:57
stevemarsamueldmq, liink?18:57
marekdyou, the client must know what to use.18:57
samueldmqit's quite simple, to re-use list_role_assignemtns wherever possible inside the assingment manager18:57
samueldmqavoiding to replicate the code for inherited roles and grouping expansion18:58
samueldmqthat leads to bugs sometimes18:58
stevemarsamueldmq, i don't think we need a spec for this18:58
samueldmqthe main goal is to reuse code18:58
jamielennoxmarekd: right, you need to know what's available - anyways18:58
henrynashI’ll make a quick pitch for some review of LDAP filtering (two patches, starting with https://review.openstack.org/#/c/147551/)…pretty easy, and we can get that in quickly18:58
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samueldmqstevemar, great! that's my goal (no spec), do we need to vote?18:58
stevemarhenrynash, i'll be glad to review it18:58
marekdI think I will also have the student this summer18:58
ayounghenrynash, when you write those, add nkinder and richm to the reviews.  They are the LDAP gurus18:58
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stevemarsamueldmq, i think just post the code and see if you can get someone to review it18:59
ayoungI'll look too, but I'd defer to them anyway18:59
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henrynashayoung: ok, will do , thx18:59
stevemarsamueldmq, but priority will go to the ones associated with specs18:59
bknudsonwhy is priority given to bps with specs?18:59
stevemarsamueldmq, since this is a cleanup, we may allow it to go in post feature freeze, but i don't see why it can't wait til L18:59
samueldmqstevemar, ok ack, henrynash will probably review it, it's related to the work that's going on the assignment backend18:59
jamielennoxcan someone kick this off: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/150627/ - copy federation plugins over to the new repo19:00
jamielennoxactually - marekd can do it now19:00
jamielennoxmarekd: this will make things quicker19:00
samueldmqstevemar, ok let's see how fast it goes (it's simple, nothing too complex)19:00
marekdjamielennox: looking19:00
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Feb 17 19:00:38 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-02-17-18.00.html19:00
stevemarthanks everyone19:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-02-17-18.00.txt19:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-02-17-18.00.log.html19:00
morganfainbergwe should vacate so -infra can do their thing ;)19:00
jeblairhowdy infra folks19:00
fungithanks morganfainberg!19:00
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clarkbhi there19:01
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jeblair#startmeeting infra19:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Feb 17 19:01:58 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:02
jeblair#link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting19:02
jeblair#link previous meeting http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-02-10-19.01.html19:02
jeblair#topic Announcements19:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)"19:02
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jeblairi have two things i'd like to start off with...19:02
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jeblairfirst, a recap of the meeting format we're currently using19:02
jeblairin general, what we're trying to do here is make sure that things that need discussion get time here19:03
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jeblairthe agenda is always open for people to add topics that they'd like to talk about, get agreement on, brainstorm on, just let people know about, etc...19:03
jeblairthe other thing we do is identify some priority efforts19:04
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jeblairusually things that affect a large group; things we've identified (perhaps at summits) which affect the openstack project as a whole...19:04
jeblairand we identify individual changes that might be blocking those efforts that need high-priority review19:05
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jeblairone thing that i don't want this meeting to become is a place where we list individual changes that need review19:05
jeblairby my reckoning, there are usually a few hundred infra changes outstanding19:06
fungifor large values of "a few"19:06
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clarkbya I have been trying to dig myself out of that hole recently. Its hard to make progress19:06
jeblairand part of the priority efforts is an attempt to deal with that by making sure that we don't sacrifice progress on efforts we feel are most important by getting swamped by the deluge19:07
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jeblairso anyway, please keep that in mind when you add things to the agenda19:07
jeblair#info meeting should be used for discussion and for identifying changes related to priority efforts19:07
jeblair#info please refrain from simply listing changes that you would like reviewed19:07
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jeblairthe other announcement is much more fun19:07
jeblair#info pleia2 has been nominated for red hat's women in open source award19:08
jeblair#link http://www.redhat.com/en/about/women-in-open-source19:08
nibalizerwoot woot19:08
jeblairpleia2: congratulations on your nomination! :)19:08
clarkbnice! congrats19:08
mordredcongrats pleia2 !19:08
fungii'll note that none of her competition lists as many years of open source experience either... she's a shoe-in!19:08
jeblair#topic Actions from last meeting19:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:09
jeblairfungi collapse image types19:09
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fungiit's in progress19:09
jeblairfungi: i think this is an ongoing thing...but you've definitely started!19:09
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fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/15669819:09
fungii'm manually testing that on a held worker right now19:09
fungiit's still missing at least a few packages19:09
fungibut yeah, it's not going to be a quick transition19:10
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jeblairfungi: cool... we'll come back to that in a minute then.  thanks.19:10
fungiwe'll need to pilot it a little and then migrate somewhat piecemeal i think19:10
jeblairjhesketh look into log copying times19:10
jeblairjhesketh move more jobs over19:10
jheskethSo more jobs over is here https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack-infra/project-config+branch:master+topic:enable_swift,n,z19:10
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jheskethBut unfortunately I haven't looked into the copying times yet19:11
clarkbjhesketh: I just got through those changes, -1 on the last one due to indexes not being right if you run the swift upload multiple times19:11
jeblair#action jhesketh look into log copying times19:11
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clarkbjhesketh: but the others I am +2 on, approved the first but wanted more consensus we are ready for the other jobs19:11
jheskethclarkb: thanks19:11
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jeblairsdague look at devstack swift logs for usability19:11
jeblairsdague: did you have a chance to look at those?19:12
jheskethThe copying times probably requires looking into what the requests library is doing19:12
fungiif it gets opaque, sigmavirus24 is the requests maintainer and always very helpful19:12
sdaguejeblair: yeh, they seemed to be roughly the same fetch times from what I saw19:12
jheskethsdague gave me some feedback I've done here19:12
sdagueat least within margin of error19:13
jeblairsdague: and the index listing format, etc, was okay?19:13
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clarkbsigmavirus24: will probably ping you post meeting if that works to talk about requests19:13
jheskethfungi: oh cool, thanks19:13
sdaguejeblair: oh, I provided jhesketh with feedback19:13
sigmavirus24clarkb: :thumbsup:19:13
sdagueI haven't looked at those patches yet, will put that on my queue19:13
jeblairsdague, jhesketh: oh cool19:13
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jeblairzaro to chat with trove folks about review-dev db problems19:14
jheskethStill need to decide how to do the help pages for logs19:14
jeblairzaro: i think we figured this out, right?19:14
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fungisince i upped the wait timeout on the review-dev instance, i haven't seen it recur19:14
zaroi believe its fixed as well, right fungi ?19:14
zaroi concur with fungi19:14
fungihowever we still need to apply similar updates to other trove instances for consistency19:14
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jeblairthe default timeout was set differently based on when our instances were created, and indeed, review-dev was set to a very low value19:15
fungiwe can get into details as to what that entails after the meeting19:15
jeblairso we'll want to be cognizant of that in the future19:15
jeblairzaro, fungi: thanks!19:15
jeblair#topic Priority Specs19:15
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jeblairi took a quick look at the specs, and i think there are at least two we should look at and get merged soon19:16
jeblair#link openstack_project refactor https://review.openstack.org/13747119:16
jeblair#link In tree third-party CI https://review.openstack.org/13974519:16
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jeblairi think both will help us continue on the path to downstream reusability... thereby putting us all in the same boat and in a better position for collaboration19:17
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* nibalizer agree19:17
clarkbwill take a look at those today19:17
fungion a related note, should the (formerly priority) puppet module split spec get moved to implemented? if so i'll whip up a quick change to take care of that19:17
anteayafungi: +119:17
mordred(I was ++-ing jeblair  - but also agree with fungi )19:17
nibalizerfungi: yes.... i think there is one last thing in the storyboard let me check19:17
funginibalizer: oh, cool. we can dig in after the meeting in that case19:18
jeblair#topic Priority Efforts (New efforts?)19:18
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (New efforts?) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:18
jeblairso our current priority efforts are: swift logs, nodepool dib, docs publishing (waiting on swift logs completion), and zanata19:18
jeblairi think we have room to add 2 or 3 more19:19
mrmartinjeblair: askbot?19:19
jeblairespecially since swift logs is hopefully winding down19:19
mrmartinwe are running without backup19:19
anteayawould the two new specs be candidates?19:19
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jeblairmrmartin: i think askbot is a good candidate due to the importance to the community, yeah19:19
jeblairanteaya: i think so; i'd probably lump them together19:19
mrmartinthe spec is in the review queue19:19
anteayajeblair: makes sense19:20
mrmartinand the patches also19:20
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clarkbaskbot and the puppet items make good candidates imo19:20
mrmartinbut requires some effort from infra side, launch instance, migrate db. etc.19:20
jeblairfungi's work on images maybe too...19:20
zaroisn't gerrit upgrade in PE somewhere?19:20
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jeblairzaro that's a good one19:20
fungijeblair: yeah, that's sort of taking on a life of its own outside of the dib work19:20
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clarkbfungi: jeblair though still very tightly coupled to the dib efforts19:20
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jeblairso, how about: add gerrit upgrade, askbot, and the puppet work; include image consolidation in the dib item?19:22
anteayaI can buy that19:22
clarkbsounds good to me19:22
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jeblair#agreed new priority efforts: gerrit upgrade; askbot, third-party and openstack_project puppet efforts19:23
jeblair#agreed image consolidation to be included in nodepool dib effort19:23
jeblair#topic Priority Efforts (Swift logs)19:24
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Swift logs) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:24
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jeblairso i think we probably covered most of this in the actions section19:24
jeblair#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack-infra/project-config+branch:master+topic:swift_log_index_improvements,n,z19:24
jeblair#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack-infra/project-config+branch:master+topic:enable_swift,n,z19:24
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jeblairi'll just throw those in here for reference19:24
jheskethYeah I've got nothing else this week sorry19:24
jeblair#topic #topic Priority Efforts (Nodepool DIB)19:25
*** openstack changes topic to "#topic Priority Efforts (Nodepool DIB) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:25
jeblair#topic Priority Efforts (Nodepool DIB)19:25
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Nodepool DIB) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:25
mordredI have verified image upload and launch to work on both clouds19:25
mordredat least on ubuntu19:26
jeblairmordred: is this with current or pending nodepool changes, or with shade?19:26
mordredwith shade - yolanda has started hacking on my pending nodepool changes to get them finished up19:26
clarkbThere are still a handful of nodepool bug fixes that have come out of the dib work up for review. I have added tests for nodepool commands too. Reviews would be great if only because less bugy nodepool makes the dibification less confusing19:26
yolandayes, i wanted to raise a pair of questions19:26
fungii'm hoping to finish banging out the package list later today and get an experimental job landed to run nova python27 unit tests on devstack-trusty nodes19:26
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yolandaso i was talking with mordred about some ensureKeypair method, jeblair, do you know more details about it?19:27
jeblairfungi: wow!19:27
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clarkbfungi: woot19:27
fungiwell, i think what i have in wip is already close, just need to finish confirming the missing bits19:27
clarkbyolanda: can you expand for the rest of us?19:27
mordredjeblair: I was telling yolanda about our discussion around keypair management and realied that I had not written down good notes -so I think it might be worth the three of us syncing up on that topic again19:27
mordredclarkb: basically right now the logic for handling keypairs is in nodepool.py not provider_manager.py19:28
jeblairsure, i think the general thing is that nodepool should not require a pre-existing keypair19:28
mordredso in figuring out how to put an api in front of it similar to the one we use for floatingip19:28
yolandaso i moved that logic to provider manager, but i don't feel that's what we will need19:28
mordredjeblair: ++19:28
fungiseems like a good improvement19:29
jeblaircurrently, it creates one per instance; i think it would be okay to create one and cache it, but then it would also need to keep track of it19:29
clarkbHow does this interact with dib?19:29
mordredyup. also - it's entirely feasible that nodepool might not need to create one at all - if one considers the dib case19:29
jeblair(that can be done, it's just a bit more work)19:29
fungiwould hopefully minimize future keypair leaks19:29
mordredwhere the keypair can quite happily be directly baked into the image19:30
mordredso the nodepool logic should almost certainly handle those deployment choices19:30
jeblairyeah, it may not be worth a lot of effort for us19:30
clarkbmordred: the only issue with that potentially is downstream ocnsumer of our images wouldn't have access to our private key(s)19:30
clarkbmordred: So, we do still need the otherthing19:30
yolandaright now, if we don't pass a key name, it generates one based on hostname, then adds it19:30
yolandaif image fails, it removes19:30
mordredclarkb: right. turns out dib already has an element which says "please inject the key from the user that built this image"19:30
clarkbmordred: yes but that doesn';t fix the issue for people taking our images that we prebuilt19:30
mordredclarkb: so there are ways we could chose to do that and still be friendly to downstreams19:31
fungimordred: but if we publish our images, other people can't reuse them easily19:31
mordredclarkb: this is correct19:31
jeblairmordred: so if we do that wile running as "the nodepool/jenkins/whateverwewantocallit user" then we and downstream users should be set19:31
mordredjeblair: yes - other than the direct-binary-reconsumption thing19:31
clarkbjeblair: not downstream users that consume the image directly19:31
clarkbI don't think we can have nodepool stop managing keys19:31
jeblairyeah, was responding to the earlier thing19:31
clarkbcould be toggleable but the key management is still important19:32
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jeblairclarkb: it's important for snapshot images, yes19:32
mordredI totally think nodepool needs teh ability to manage keys19:32
mordredI'm just saying taht we may not choose to use that feature in our config - although we _might_ choose to use it19:32
mordredso nodepool needs to grok that someone can make a choice about that19:32
jeblairany other dib related things to talk about?19:33
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yolandamm, related to the same work19:33
yolandathere is a missing feature for get capabilities19:33
yolandathis should be created in shade, right?19:33
clarkbget capabilities?19:33
mordredif shade is missing a thing that nodepool needs, it shoudl be added19:33
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jeblairclarkb: ask the cloud what its capabilities are19:33
clarkbI see, floating ips and so on for example?19:34
yolandain nodepool there is some code that checks if cloud has os-floating-ips capabilities19:34
mordrednodepool will stop doing that particular thing19:34
mordredsince shade does the right thing in that case already19:34
yolandai just removed that from nodepool directly19:35
clarkbalso how is this related to dib? (I am trying to make sure I understand if these things are requirements or nice to have or whatever)19:35
mordredyah. but it's an excellent example19:35
yolandabut i wanted to ensure if that was really fine, or need some extra work on shade19:35
mordredclarkb: it's related to dib because the logic to deal with glance across clouds is in shade - and it's VERY ugly19:35
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clarkbmordred: specifically get capabilities thoug19:35
clarkbmordred: we don't need to accmodate capabilities today for dib or do we?19:36
mordredno- but we do need to deal with it in the shade patch19:36
clarkbI see19:36
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mordredso the question winds up being "add get capabilities support to shade" OR "remove need for it by adding logic to shade"19:36
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mordredI prefer the second, but the first could also work/be better19:36
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yolandaare there more use cases that need capabilities?19:37
mordreddepending on scope/effort and how general the check is vs. specific to nodepool logic19:37
mordredyolanda: only other one I know of it keypair extension19:37
jeblairi think the end-state is that nodepool should not need it; it should all be in shade...19:37
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jeblairso if that's easy, go with that; if it makes something too big and complicated, then we can do it piecemeal19:37
mordredsee, jeblair says things clearly19:37
anteayamordred: he is a good translator for you, keep him close19:38
* mordred hands jeblair a fluffy emu19:38
jeblair#topic Priority Efforts (Migration to Zanata)19:38
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Migration to Zanata) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:38
mrmartinI guess pleia2 is not here today, she uploaded a new patch, requires review / testing19:39
jeblair#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/147947/19:39
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jeblair#topic Priority Efforts (Askbot migration)19:39
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Askbot migration) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:39
fungimrmartin: yeah, she's travelling for several speaking engagements at a couple of free software conferences19:39
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jeblair#link https://review.openstack.org/15406119:40
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jeblairthat's probably the first thing we ought to do -- review that spec :)19:40
mrmartinok for askbot, I guess the tasks are clear, if anything comes up, let's discuss that.19:40
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jeblair#link https://review.openstack.org/14004319:41
jeblair#link https://review.openstack.org/15191219:41
fungialso i did update the https cert for the current non-infra-managed server and stuck it in hiera using the key names from the proposed system-config change19:41
jeblairand it looks like there's a solr module we can use without needing our own, which is good (i hope)19:42
jeblairfungi: thanks19:42
jeblair#topic Priority Efforts (Upgrading Gerrit)19:42
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mrmartinjeblair, yes with some limitation the solr works, I've tested19:42
jeblairso we set a date last week and sent an announcement19:42
jeblairfor the trusty upgrade19:42
jeblairi believe we're planning on doing that first, and then upgrading gerrit to 2.9 later?19:43
anteaya3rd party folks paying attention seem to know about the ip change coming up19:43
clarkbya since 2.9 needs a package only available on trusty (or not available on precise)19:43
zaroso here are the changes for that : https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:+Gerrit-2.9-upgrade,n,z19:43
zarothat's for after moving to trusty19:43
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jeblairclarkb: right, but specifically i meant not doing both at once19:43
asselinI added it to tomorrow's cinder meeting19:43
anteayahow much time to do we need between the os upgrade and the gerrit upgrade?19:44
anteayaasselin: cool19:44
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anteayaif we don't have a reason to wait, why would we wait?19:45
asselinwill the server be up beforehand to test, and the swith made only on the date specified?19:45
anteayaasselin: yes19:45
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jeblairasselin: it will not be available to test19:46
fungiwell, also part of the question is, does only doing the distro upgrade by itself shrink the window we need for the outage (including time needed to roll back if necessary)19:46
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fungibut yes, more important is that changing too many things at once makes it harder to untangle where a bug came from19:46
jeblairfungi: i don't... i think rollback is probably faster when doing a server switch19:46
zaroi can't seem to find the announcement, could someone please provide a link?19:46
asselinjeblair, it would be good for 3rd party folks to test our firewall settings, if there's "something" on the other end19:46
asselin#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-February/056508.html19:47
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zaroi agree with fungi, maybe we should wait a week between going to trusty then gerrit 2.9 ?19:48
jeblairso if folks don't want to do both at once, then we probably need to let it sit for at least a week or two before we attempt the gerrit upgrade19:48
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jeblairzaro: can you look at the schedule and propose a time for the gerrit upgrade during our next meeting?19:48
zarowill do19:49
jeblair#action zaro propose dates for gerrit 2.9 upgrade19:49
fungizaro: also take the release schedule into account there19:49
clarkblast time we did this we separated OS from Gerrit upgrades. So that plan of action sounds good to me19:49
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jeblair#topic supporting project-config new-repo reviews with some clarity (anteaya)19:49
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anteaya#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/new-repo-reviewing-sanity-checks19:49
anteayaso I'm frustrated with my reviews on project-config19:50
* asselin notes that users won't have access to new gerrit https during time between new os and gerrit upgrade19:50
jeblairanteaya: agree that adding expectations to README in project is a good idea19:50
anteayaso I tried to capture some thoughts on this etherpad19:50
AJaegeranteaya: sofar I asked for a patch to governance - you want to have it merged first?19:50
anteayathat captures the essence of what I am feeling19:50
anteayawell the name is still in doubt as far as the tc is concerned19:51
clarkbalso note that new project creation has a race19:51
clarkbso I haven't really been reviewing any of them19:51
anteayayet is it a reality in git.o.o right now19:51
jeblairclarkb: oh, er, that should probably be the first thing we talk about in this meeting :(19:51
jeblairclarkb: let's defer that discussion though19:52
anteayadoes anyone have any other thoughts?19:52
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clarkbanteaya: my concern is if we make this so complicated reviewers and users won't want to touch it19:52
anteayaclarkb: fair enough19:52
anteayaI can' tbring myself to review project-config right now19:53
clarkbtraditionally we haven't been stackforge police19:53
fungiif we go with governance patch being a prereq, then using depends-on crd in the commit message could ensure that even if we approve the new project it won't get created until teh tc approves the governance change (for official projects)19:53
anteayasince my concerns don't seem to be incorporated19:53
AJaegerfungi, I would be fine with that one19:53
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clarkbbut using CRD for the governance change dep for openstack/ projects seems reasonable19:53
jeblairanteaya: your first point is regarding stackforge; i agree with clark, i'm not certain we should care19:54
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anteayawell actually it is the use of openstack names in stackforge19:54
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anteayasince once they are used there openstack losing the ability to say how they get used19:54
jeblairanteaya: the second point, yes, things that go into the openstack namespace should be part of an openstack project (for the moment at least)19:54
anteayasince as you say, we don't care19:54
fungiwhich as i pointed out in the earlier discussion, there are lots of existing cases of project names in stackforge repo names19:55
jeblairanteaya: i feel like in many cases those may be nominative... like "neutron-foo" is the foo for neutron; hard to describe it otherwise...19:55
fungiespecially for the config management projects in stackforge19:55
anteayanetworking-foo is what neutron has been using19:55
jeblairanteaya: at your suggestion?19:55
anteayawhen they have reviewed patches that condcern the name use19:55
anteayasince they agreed with my point19:56
anteayaabout losing the ability to use the name for themselves19:56
jeblairi'm not certain that i agree that all uses of the word neutron in a project name are incorrect19:56
anteayaand determine its value by their actions19:56
fungiwhen they go from stackforge to openstack as big-tent projects/teams should they also rename themselves from stackforge/networking-foo to openstack/neutron-foo?19:56
mordredyeah - but I tend to agree with jeblair - stackforge/puppet-neutron, for instance, I do not think needs any blessing from anyone - it is descriptive, it is puppet modules to deploy neutron19:56
mordredI don't think we need to police that19:56
anteayaconfig repos are different from driver repos19:56
anteayato me19:57
nibalizeralso the ammonut of work to change puppet-neutron to anything else is nontrivial19:57
fungithat's hard to write a policy around though19:57
anteayabut all I am aksing for is for someone from the project to weigh in19:57
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jeblairit seems even weirder that a neutron driver wouldn't use neutron in the name19:57
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mordredI can see that - but I don't think it's an area where we want to have an opinion, and should really only have one if we need to19:57
fungi"this is bad, except sometimes it's not" is a reviewing policy nightmare19:57
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fungii feel like policing stackforge project names is deep, deep bikeshed19:58
anteayabut all I am aksing for is for someone from the project to weigh in19:58
jeblairanteaya: you have been asking them to change names19:58
anteayayes I have been19:58
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mordredanteaya: I think that implies that someone from the project has the right to an opinion19:58
jeblairyou even suggest that in your point in the etherpad19:58
anteayaand at this point I am asking for someone from the project to weigh in on a patch that uses the project name19:59
mordredthat is some how more valid than someone else's19:59
anteayais that not the point?19:59
anteayawhat else is the point of the name19:59
mordredand I'm not sure I agree that is the case - as it puts people into a position to make a value judgement potentially unnecssarily19:59
nibalizerthe ptl of the projcet probably has plenty of things to worry about, and so when we say 'hey need input' they're gonna say 'link to policy doc plz?' and then the problem is right back on us19:59
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aplawsonHi folks, just watching the flow of thing, first time IRC to anything OpenStack. p )20:00
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mordredspecifically, it's a potential point for corruption and abuse - if someone doesn't like ewindisch, they might be more inclinded to say "I don't think nova-docker should get to use nova in its name"- when at the end of the day, it is a docker driver for nova20:00
anteayaI see it as abuse the other way20:00
mordredand that is merely a factual statement. now - if it was a request for openstack/nova-docker20:00
nibalizeranteaya: also once you publish software, I'm basically entitiled to write puppet-<sofwtarename> thats kindof not your call if i do it or not20:00
nibalizerdoes that make sense?20:01
mordredthen it implies a level of credibility related to openstack/nova and I would tehn think that the nova-ptl should be involved20:01
anteayahow do we do that after the fact20:01
anteayaas we have agreed stackforge can do whatever they want20:01
fungikeep in mind that stackforge is just one of many, many hosting options for a free software project. if projectname-foo wants to register its name on github, pypi, rtfd, et cetera we have no control there20:02
anteayayet there is a feeling of attachment to openstack via stackforge20:02
fungiso exercising that control over stackforge seems counter-productive20:02
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AJaegerIt would be nice to have some guidelines, e.g. on how to name drivers for nova like nova-docker or plugins for neutron like networking-midonet20:03
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AJaegerto have similiarities20:03
anteayaI think naming things only has value if the name means something20:03
anteayaand the value can easily degrade20:03
mordredyeah - I hear that - but stackforge is very explicitly not the place for that20:03
fungifor example, turbo-hipster?20:03
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mordredlike, it exists to be a place that does not have a governance opinion20:04
anteayawhich is why I feel the way I do20:04
mordredwe don't want to make a secondary policy board for stackforge that governs choices people make there20:04
nibalizerthere will always be exceptions to any naming pegegree, places where something doesn't fit or is covered by two rules20:04
AJaegerlet me take the action to add information about CRD on governance patch to the infra-manual. ok?20:04
anteayaif I am the only one, that is fine20:04
anteayamove ahead20:04
fungioh, we're way over time too. sdague wasn't going to do a tc meeting today, correct?20:04
anteayaI said what I feel20:04
sdaguefyi, for anyone looking for the TC meeting, it is cancelled today.20:04
sdaguefungi: correct, cancelled, just wanted to make sure no one was hanging out waiting for it20:04
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fungisdague: well, i was, but...20:05
sdagueyou guys can keep the channel20:05
clarkb#action AJaeger update infra manual with info on setting up depends on for CRD between new openstack/* project changes and the governance change accepting that project20:05
jeblairand yeah, i thought a few extra minutes would be helpful here20:05
clarkbsorry if I jumped the gun on the CRD thing but it seemed like we had consensus on that point20:05
jeblairi think so20:05
fungii think we're in a good place to continue this in a change review20:05
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fungithanks AJaeger20:06
jeblairsorry we didn't get to the other items on the agenda20:06
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jeblairthey'll be up first after priority efforts next time20:06
jeblairbut if you're curious, there are some links in today's agenda if you want to explore on your own20:06
jeblairthanks everyone!20:06
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:06
openstackMeeting ended Tue Feb 17 20:06:58 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:07
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-02-17-19.01.html20:07
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-02-17-19.01.txt20:07
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-02-17-19.01.log.html20:07
* jeblair edits agenda20:07
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jeblairand a reminder -- the TC meeting is canceled this week20:07
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dhellmann#startmeeting crossproject21:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Feb 17 21:00:05 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is dhellmann. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'crossproject'21:00
dhellmannttx wasn't sure he would have steady internet today, so he asked me to chair the meeting this week in his place21:00
dhellmanncourtesy ping for mikal notmyname nikhil_k morganfainberg david-lyle mestery thingee21:00
dhellmanncourtesy ping for eglynn asalkeld SlickNik devananda  jeblair annegentle mtreinish21:00
dhellmanncourtesy ping for SpamapS ttx flaper87 SergeyLukjanov redrobot kiall bswartz21:00
dhellmannwho's around for the crossproject meeting?21:00
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* redrobot is somewhat lurking... at mid-cycle right now.21:00
dhellmannnice turnout21:01
dhellmannOur agenda:21:01
dhellmann#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting21:01
* bknudson is also at mid-cycle21:01
dhellmannfirst a quick announcement21:01
dhellmann#topic stable/icehouse freeze21:01
dhellmann#info we will be freezing stable/icehouse on Thu Feb 19 for the 2014.1.4 release21:01
dhellmann#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StableBranchRelease#Planned_stable.2Ficehouse_releases21:01
dhellmannkeep that in mind as you are reviewing backports in your projects21:01
*** openstack changes topic to "stable/icehouse freeze (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:01
dhellmannis anyone from the stable team here? are you all blocked on anything for that release?21:01
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* dhellmann guesses not21:02
dhellmannwe have one main topic this week21:02
dhellmann#topic Testing Guidelines21:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Testing Guidelines (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:02
dhellmann#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/150653/21:02
eglynnbelated o/21:02
dhellmannThis is sdague's spec describing guidelines derived from our experience as a project with CI.21:02
dhellmannsdague: I'll yield the floor to you to give more detail21:02
jokke_dhellmann: I don't think glance has at least anything blocking21:02
sdaguedhellmann: sure, thanks21:02
sdagueso what's up there is an early draft, lots of good comments in there which need to be integrated21:03
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dhellmannit looks like jeblair's feedback will make it into the next draft?21:04
sdaguethe inspiration for this was what seemed like a lack of common framework to talk about testing in the project, as people have different levels of experience with it in general, and specifically in our project21:04
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sdagueyeh, jeblair provided a lot of good context material in the last review round21:04
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sdaguethat made me realize I think we need more of that, plus some pictures to visualize what "functional testing" means when we say it21:04
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* morganfainberg needs to sit down and re-read + the comments on the spec21:04
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sdaguewe seem to have taxonomy challenges at times21:05
dhellmannok, it seemed like the other comments were more focused on wording or suggestions within the text, and those were a big broader in scope21:05
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sdagueyeh, so I guess a couple of things for the cross project ask21:05
sdague1) do we believe this kind of spec doc will be helpful for the project going forward21:05
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sdague2) are there other big ideas in here that got missed?21:06
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sdague3) is my TODO list at the end seem good enough for what should change to get us to a landable state? (assuming point #1)21:06
ttx1) yes21:06
dhellmannon point 1, I am generally in favor of writing things down. I think doing that here in the specs repo is better than the wiki for "policy" items (versus how-tos) because it gives everyone a chance to provide the review feedback21:06
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dhellmannon point 2, I think you have the big items, though I am sure we will amend and revise this over time21:07
dhellmannon the todo list, does tempest already support running only a subset of tests as described?21:08
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bknudsonI thought all projects were expected to integrate functional testing (e.g., keystone, python-keystoneclient)21:08
jrollsdague: 1) yes, defining our goals is extremely valuable. I think people are unaware of where we want to be in the future with testing.21:08
sdaguedhellmann: yes, by TODO list I actually meant my final "review"21:08
eglynnbknudson: the so-called in-tree func tests, right?21:08
sdagueas in the changes to the doc I think are needed21:08
bknudsoneglynn: yes, we've been working on it.21:09
dhellmannsdague: ah, got it21:09
sdaguebut tempest does support the subset21:09
sdagueyeh, I think this is one of those places where we said some words at summits, lots of teams are heading in these directions, some feel more comfortable with it than others21:09
sdagueand hopefully this provides a baseline to reference21:09
eglynnbknudson: seems to be covered by the concept of "co-gating units" in the spec?21:09
jokke_sdague: regarding your todo, I totally agree with your fear for bikeshedding if we start picking up examples21:10
eglynnbknudson: i.e. the special case of a project "co-gating" just with itself ("keystone ... runs only keystone")21:10
bknudsoneglynn: yes, the testing spec here makes it clearer what we need to cover with our in-tree functional tests.21:11
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sdaguebknudson: that makes me very happy to hear :)21:11
sdagueas that was my goal21:11
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sdagueso... I'll plan to do the next draft later this week, please provide other comments in the meanwhile.21:12
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dhellmannsdague: I expect that some of the implementation of this will run into liberty. Is that your expectation as well?21:13
sdagueonce this is in some acceptable state, I'm going to propose a similar thing for "theory of upgrade" based on what we've heard from ops, as well as the grenade experiences. Hopefully, again to have a baseline for what projects need to think about for being upgrade friendly21:13
mtreinishdhellmann: yeah on the subset bit tempest supports it, we might miss a few tests depending on the service filter, but that's a bug which is simple to fix21:13
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jrolldhellmann: I would agree with that, this is a ton of work to do in a month21:13
sdaguedhellmann: I think a bunch of the test disagregation may be able to happen during kilo21:13
jrollwe can certainly make good progress in kilo21:14
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dhellmannadding the functional tests to projects is likely to take some time21:14
jrollbut projects are also slamming home features etc and that gets distracting21:14
sdaguedhellmann: agreed21:14
sdagueand will be an ongoing thing21:14
dhellmannok, just making sure my expectations matched yours21:14
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sdaguein reality we probably should have a show & tell session in vancouver on project functional testing and what people are doing and what's working out well21:15
sdaguelike the specs one we had in paris21:15
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jrolla small functional testing framework could be nice too21:16
jrollI expect one will come out of this at any rate21:16
dhellmanneglynn: what's the one you're using in ceilometer?21:16
sdaguedhellmann: you mean gabbi, that cdent is building?21:17
dhellmannsdague: that's the one21:17
sdagueyeh, that looks pretty neat21:17
eglynnsdague: gabbi is only for declarative API tests21:17
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eglynni.e. not a fully general-purpose func testing framework21:17
eglynnbut very nice at what it does :)21:17
dhellmanndoes it plug in to the existing test runner?21:18
jokke_glance has pretty well covered in-tree functional testing ... noting fancy just straight forward21:18
eglynndhellmann: yep, that's one of the options ... it's quiet flexible21:18
sdagueok, so we're probably starting to drift from the review a bit :)21:18
sdagueso I'd say, please provide more feedback over the next couple of days, I'll start my new draft on thur/fri21:19
dhellmanndoes anyone want to highlight any comments already made, or ask questions about the content?21:20
dhellmannok, if that's it then, let's move on21:21
dhellmann#topic GSoC 201521:21
*** openstack changes topic to "GSoC 2015 (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:21
dhellmannIt's that time again. We need Project Ideas and Mentors for Google Summer of Code participants for this year.21:21
dhellmann#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/GSoC201521:22
dhellmannTalk to dims or one of the other mentors about project ideas21:22
dhellmannkeep in mind the time-frame for when students are available might not match up exactly with the release cycle21:22
dhellmannalso, the project needs to be pretty well defined, but the mentors will be able to help turn ideas into project plans21:22
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ttxdhellmann: what are the deadlines ?21:23
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dhellmannttx: great question, and I don't see it there on the wiki page21:23
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dhellmanndims__: do you know the deadlines for gsoc?21:24
dhellmannI'll get him to update the wiki page21:24
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ttxyes, that would help to get how urgent this is.21:24
dims__dhellmann: yes, there's time - http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/events/google/gsoc201521:24
ttxI think this time around we are not too late21:25
dims__right ttx21:25
vkmchey :)21:25
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dims__hey vkmc21:25
jokke_dhellmann: what is the scope? (Like something one person can do in couple of months, something that team of five can do in couple of months, etc.)21:25
ttxFeb 20 Mentoring org application deadline21:25
vkmchopefully we are not... we have many students interested21:25
dims__we are on #openstack-gsoc if you want to continue conversations later21:25
dhellmanndims__, vkmc : do one of you want to answer jokke_ ?21:25
ttxthat leaves 3 days to make a decision ?21:25
dims__jokke_: anything that can be done in one summer21:26
dims__one person21:26
vkmcjokke_, its expected that the student can finish the task during the internship21:26
vkmcjokke_, but there are cases in where many students kept working afterwards anyway21:26
dims__ttx: that's just for the org21:26
jokke_so one person 2-3months ... check21:26
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ttxdims__: but you need mentors to sign up before so that you'e sure you have enough to run it, right ?21:27
dhellmannfor oslo we talked about the fact that graduating some of the incubated code might be too tricky for a newcomer to handle, but there will be some logging related features that we might be able to get them to work on21:27
dhellmannthe goal is to find a useful task that isn't just busy work and will improve the project21:28
dims__ttx: we don't know how many slots we'll get from google, am sure we can fill them based on what we saw last year21:28
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ttxdims__: ack21:28
vkmcdhellmann, that sounds really good21:28
dims__dhellmann: +121:28
dhellmannI'm not sure if the logging stuff by itself is "big" enough, so we'll have to see21:29
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ttxrandom idea -- Google recently opensourced a cloud benchmark suite, would be awesome if that supported openstack21:29
dims__ttx: awesome, i'll dig it up and add to wiki21:29
ttx(they currently support aws and GCE21:29
ttxand Azure i think)21:29
ttxdims__: it's arguably not an openstack thing though21:29
vkmcttx, +121:29
ttxit's more contribution to the whatveer-it-s-named Goggle project21:30
thingeedhellmann: I think we've done fine in the past with gathering project ideas for the gnome outreach. might be the same here https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/OutreachProgramForWomen/Ideas21:30
dims__ttx: good point21:30
ttxdims__: I guess we need to wait and see if google files that project for GSoC21:30
dhellmannthingee: good cross-over21:30
ttxthingee: you mean "outreachy" :)21:31
dims__thanks for the time everyone, feel free to hop onto #openstack-gsoc21:31
dhellmanndims__: thanks!21:32
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dhellmannthat's all we have on the formal agenda for today21:32
dhellmann#topic open discussion21:32
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:32
dhellmannis there anything else we need to raise this week?21:32
morganfainbergI'd just like continued feedback on the no db schema downgrades21:32
morganfainbergi've updated the spec to address comments21:33
morganfainberg#link https://review.openstack.org/#/21:33
morganfainberg#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/152337/21:33
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dhellmannthere are several other specs up for review: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack%2Fopenstack-specs+is:open,n,z21:34
ttxNB: The TC will rubberstamp the CLI sorting args one next Tuesday21:34
ttxso last days to disagree21:35
sdaguethe eventlet one seems weird for this repo - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/154642/21:35
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ttxsdague: it's a bit weird yes -- sounds like it could be a blog post :)21:35
ttxbut the, a specs is easie rto reference and update21:36
sdagueyeh, or dev docs somewhere21:36
jokke_I'd like to have quick poll around ... I threw an e-mail to the list last week regarding retiring commits from review similar way as Nova is doing that seemed to get quite mixed opinions. Any other project doing that?21:36
dhellmannsdague: we don't really have a good place for cross-project dev docs yet21:36
dhellmannjokke_: "retiring commits"?21:36
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sdaguedhellmann: should the todo then be working towards that instead of overloading this repo?21:36
sdaguedhellmann: abandoning them21:37
jokke_dhellmann: abandoning commits where nothing has happened for long time21:37
bswartzthe system used to auto-abandon after 2 weeks -- why did it stop doing that?21:37
sdaguejokke_: in fairness, the nova policy includes 2 stuck conditions for why we think the commit is likely dead, it's not just old commits21:37
eglynnbswartz: only if it had a negative vote already?21:38
jokke_sdague: care to enlighten?21:38
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bswartzoh, perhaps21:38
thingeeeglynn, bswartz: no I do clean up on patches, and it does not auto abandon even if there are negative votes.21:38
sdaguejokke_: so if it has a Code-Review<=-2 and is more than 4 weeks old21:38
sdaguewhich means a core reviewer has blocked it21:38
notmynamein swift we abandon old patches21:39
sdagueso that's not coming back without a conversation that's apparently not happening21:39
thingeenotmyname: yeah I just do them when I remember if they're older than a month with no activity.21:39
sdagueor if jenkins is -1, and again the commit is > 4 weeks without *any* activity21:39
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notmynamewe send an email after a 4 weeks of no activity after a negative review. then we add it to an "abandon" queue two weeks after the email is sent if there's still no activity21:39
dhellmannnotmyname: do you track that manually?21:40
sdaguesorry, in the first case it's 4 weeks no activity as well. And no activity, means nothing21:40
notmynamedhellmann: nope. one of our cores built the tool to do the emails and the list. (http://abandoner.oliver.net.au/abandoned_changes.html)21:40
notmynamedhellmann: so on that, right now, there's 2 that need to be abandoned21:40
notmynameand the abandoning is only done by hand. normally by me21:40
jokke_sdague: so what I proposed was quite similar as in >4 weeks old, - review (even from jenkins) and try to establish communication to get it moving21:41
sdaguejokke_: yeh, the nova one is an automatic sweep, but leaves a comment about why it was abandoned and what the person should do to get the patch rolling again21:41
jokke_and yes I do agree that it needs to happen by hand to be smart ... logic like that would be bad to automate fully21:41
jokke_sdague: ok21:42
sdaguehonestly, in looking at the restores, I think a lot of contributors don't realize that a jenkins -1 bit of code won't get reviewed21:42
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dhellmannjokke_: this thread? http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-February/056829.html21:42
jokke_because I think it would be beneficial to not have them in the review for a year ... the objections seemed to be on the line "But we might hurt someones feelings if we abandon their patch after weeks of no response"21:43
jokke_dhellmann: that's the one21:43
dhellmannok. as sdague and notmyname have pointed out, I think the thing to be sure of is that it's the submitter who hasn't responded -- and not abandon patches just because they haven't been reviewed21:43
jokke_dhellmann: definitely .... that was the intention21:44
dhellmannthe timelines mentioned, several weeks, seem reasonable as well21:44
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jokke_my proposal was 5-10 days after reaching out for response, but I'm more than happy to adobt that 2 weeks21:45
dhellmannjokke_: well, the other times mentioned for nova and swift were 4 weeks21:46
jokke_is this something we want to establish common guide across the projects (if it's wanted to be done) or keep doing it as feel suitable per project workflow?21:46
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notmyname4 weeks until we send an alert to the owner. then 2 more until we abandon it21:47
jokke_dhellmann: 4 weeks + 2 weeks after reaching out I think was swift21:47
dhellmannnotmyname: thanks for clarifying, I missed that extra 2 weeks21:47
dhellmannI think it's OK to let projects decide this on their own. If it becomes a real problem, we can revisit21:47
jokke_thanks for your input. I'll take it back to glance meeting at thu21:47
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dhellmannsounds good21:49
dhellmannis there anything else for this week?21:49
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dhellmannif no one objects, we can close the meeting a few minutes early, then21:50
* SpamapS just now got courtesy ping21:50
SpamapSdid anybody have questions for me?21:50
dhellmannSpamapS: it was very courteous, and waited until you weren't busy21:50
SpamapSvery courteous21:51
SpamapSotherwise I have nothing to add and I'm always +1 to shorter meetings21:51
dhellmannI don't think there was anything for you, so far21:51
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dhellmannthank you all for coming, enjoy your 8 minutes of freedom!21:52
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:52
openstackMeeting ended Tue Feb 17 21:52:08 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:52
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-02-17-21.00.html21:52
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-02-17-21.00.txt21:52
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-02-17-21.00.log.html21:52
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