Wednesday, 2015-02-25

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nagromltne1 on?00:37
nagromltboogers00:39
nagromltc'mon i count at least00:39
nagromlt~450 heads monitoring00:40
nagromlt...00:40
nagromlti gotta piss00:40
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sigmavirus24flip214: what if I joined it already? =P15:59
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flip214sigmavirus24: then join again.15:59
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sigmavirus24:D15:59
flip214won't hurt, after all15:59
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sigmavirus24oh $deity, it's full of irc channels15:59
thingee#startmeeting cinder16:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Feb 25 16:00:00 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is thingee. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.16:00
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'cinder'16:00
thingeehello everyone!16:00
hemnamorning16:00
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duleko/16:00
e0nehi!16:00
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thangpo/16:00
scottdahi16:00
bswartzhi16:00
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smcginniso/16:00
sigmavirus24'ello16:00
DuncanTlo16:00
thingeesome announcements before we get started...16:00
asselinhi16:00
jnraohi16:00
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yuriy_n17hi everyone16:00
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thingeeThird party CI http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-January/054614.html16:00
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rhe00hi16:00
mtaninohi16:00
thingeeit's required for Kilo for all volume drivers16:00
cebrunshi16:00
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jungleboyjo/16:01
xyang1Hi16:01
thingeeif your volume driver, and all protocols it supports are not covered by a CI by the end of Kilo, you risk the driver being removed.16:01
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thingeeplease don't wait and get help in the third party ci meetings16:01
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thingeehttps://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ThirdParty16:01
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smcginnisthingee: End of K3, right? Not end of Kilo.16:02
thingeesmcginnis: sure16:02
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thingeespeaking of deadlines, Cinder has deadlines for code.16:02
thingeehttp://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-February/056964.html16:02
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thingeeMarch 1st, code must be in for all BPs. Passing jenkins. Not WIP16:02
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thingeeI will untarget BPs otherwise. The reviewers need time to, well, review!16:03
thingeeMarch 10th, code must be merged for BPs. We will do a freeze. Bug patches are OK though!16:03
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thingeeKilo priorities...anyone doing reviews should be following https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/cinder-k3-priorities16:04
thingeeThese are things targeted.16:04
thingeefor k-316:04
thingeeOk lets gets started!16:04
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thingeeAgenda for today16:04
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thingee#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CinderMeetings#Next_meeting16:04
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thingee#topic Display dates with tz info with API change16:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Display dates with tz info with API change (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:04
thingeeyuriy_n17: hi16:04
thingee#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/156552/16:05
yuriy_n17hi everyone16:05
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thingeeyuriy_n17: have you spoke to the API WG? https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/API_Working_Group16:05
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yuriy_n17no16:05
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thingeeOk, general project consensus would be great.16:06
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thingeemembers of each project, including myself, are part of this16:06
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thingeealso to discuss the specifics of changing this in current API versions16:06
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thingeewhich I think is what the current convtroversy is16:06
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* jungleboyj breaks off the nob.16:08
yuriy_n17thingee: To have dates displayed in Cinder with tz info I offered that16:08
thingeeyuriy_n17: understood. I would appreciate project consensus on this though. Not just Cinder doing this16:09
thingeeI don't have a project with it though.16:09
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thingeeproblem*16:09
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DuncanTthingee: I do. It breaks client code16:10
DuncanTthingee: That needs to be managed somehow16:10
thingeeDuncanT: agreed. Let me be more clear...I don't have a problem with the idea.16:10
thingeeDuncanT: I want the API WG to decide on when this should be introduced to a project.16:10
DuncanTthingee: Ah, me neither, in fact it is an important thing to fix16:10
sigmavirus24thingee: as a member, I agree with the idea16:11
e0neDuncanT: it works for me but i'll recheck it once more after meeting16:11
sigmavirus24however, I'm more of the opinion that every timestamp should be stored in UTC+0 for simplicity16:11
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winston-dDuncanT: agree, everytime I look at the log, I need to convert the timezone, twice.16:11
thingeealright no disagreements... yuriy_n17 can I count on you to bring this to the API WG?16:11
DuncanTsigmavirus24: +1 That solves the current issue without any change to the API16:11
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yuriy_n17thingee: sure16:12
sigmavirus24DuncanT: at worst cinder could alter itself to accept any timestamp with tz info and convert it to UTC+0 before storing or just assume it's already UTC+016:12
kmartinyuriy_n17, https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/API-WG16:12
sigmavirus24yuriy_n17: I believe our next meeting is in a few hours16:12
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thingee#action yuriy_n17 to talk to API WG about TZ time in APIs and when they should be introduced.16:13
thingeesigmavirus24, yuriy_n17: thanks!16:13
DuncanTsigmavirus24: Tomorrow, according to that link16:13
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thingee#topic Notice only: 3rd Party CI - Important Action required16:13
*** openstack changes topic to "Notice only: 3rd Party CI - Important Action required (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:13
thingeeasselin: hi!16:13
asselinhi16:13
sigmavirus24DuncanT: correct. The alternating schedule messes me up =P16:13
thingee#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-February/056508.html16:13
asselinso last week I mentioned that -infra is changing the ip address of the gerrit server16:14
asselinthis impacts 3rd party ci. please read the e-mail16:14
asselin#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-February/056508.html16:14
asselinyesterday, in the infra meeting they agreed to setup a netcat hello world service to help test firewall rules16:14
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asselinthat completes my action item from last week. :)16:15
xyang2asselin: when will the hello world service be ready?16:15
anteayawhen pleia2 sets it up, we didn't set a time for it16:15
asselinxyang2, not sure. hopefully this week. pleia2 has the action to do it.16:15
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xyang2asselin, anteaya: ok, thanks16:16
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asselinif not other questions, that's it from me16:16
thingee#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-02-24-19.01.txt16:16
thingeeasselin: thank you! anything else?16:17
asselinnope16:17
thingee#topic Approach to bug 140901216:17
*** openstack changes topic to "Approach to bug 1409012 (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:17
openstackbug 1409012 in Cinder "Volume becomes in 'error' state after scheduler starts" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1409012 - Assigned to Michal Dulko (michal-dulko-f)16:17
thingeeDuncanT, dulek: hi!16:17
dulekhi, let me explain background quickly16:17
thingee#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/cinder/+bug/140901216:17
dulekProblem is scheduler doesn't have metrics at the start so it fails requests in 60-seconds-wide time window.16:17
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dulekwinston-d proposed a patch to shrink this window to a few seconds, but this doesn't solve the bug because still requests sent before metrics update will be received first and scheduler will fail16:18
dulek(but change is of course great)16:18
duleknow I can take two approaches in the patch that's delaying requests:16:18
dulek1. delay requests for 60 seconds or less (manager will count down the delay passed to further request flows)16:18
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dulekthis makes delays longer but scheduler will know whole situation when making a decision16:18
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dulek2. ask scheduler_driver every second till we have valid response or delay passes16:19
dulekthis will make delays shorter but scheduler may not have all the metrics when making a decision which may lead to a poor choice16:19
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dulekSo the question is - which one is better?16:19
hemnashouldn't the scheduler wait to d scheduling until it's collected stats from every c-vol instance ?16:19
DuncanTThe second approach IMO, otherwise you get unnecessary stalls16:20
dulekhemna: That's option 1 I guess.16:20
e0nehemna: we can't do it with currunt oslo.messaging16:20
winston-dhemna: scheduler doesn't know how many vol servies are up16:20
hemnawinston-d, the db table lists the c-vol services16:20
hemnaand their state16:20
thingeehemna: does that get propagated by the scheduler though? :)16:21
winston-dhemna: there's no guarantee active c-vol in DB will continute to be active16:21
dulekwinston-d: +116:21
DuncanTthingee: The scheduler can connect to the db just fine16:21
dulekwinston-d: but we should make it possible to send metrics for every volume to be fair16:21
dulekwinston-d: not use the one we're getting first - that's my opinion16:22
thingeeDuncanT: right, I'm saying if the scheduler uses the db to tell what c-vols are active, but it's setting that itself...not really useful :)16:22
winston-ddulek: i agree, that's why I think waiting for one periodic_interval is acceptable.16:22
DuncanTdulek: Does total 'fairness' make sense for a small time window though? They're already unfair enough on a busy system  due to update lag anyway16:23
hemnathingee, shouldn't the c-vol services be updating their status in the services table?16:23
hemnanot the scheduler16:23
thingeehemna: well that's why it was a question. I don't know what is.16:23
hemnaoh ok :)16:23
hemnathere is a report_count field as well16:23
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dulekhemna: this isn't done because of db performance issues16:23
dulekDuncanT has more info on that i think16:24
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DuncanTdulek: I forget, sorry, It vaguely rings bells, but I can't remember the details16:24
winston-dhemna: query DB for once, is fine, but the worst case of current fix is to wait one periodic interval.16:24
winston-dhemna: which doesn't need to query DB.16:25
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thingeedulek: can you explain #2 again?16:25
dulekIt's DuncanT's idea, maybe he'll explain it better?16:25
DuncanTOk16:25
dulekDuncanT: thanks :)16:25
winston-ddulek: my opinion for your change is, we can move the sleep waiting out of taskflow, into scheduler manager, then we have great change to make sure *every* request doesn't have to be block for 60 secs.16:26
DuncanTSo basically we just keep looping the scheduler call every second until we find a host that can take it, then send it. We don't care if there is a better host coming along later16:26
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DuncanTIt means the normal case scheduling resumes as soon as at least one host has reported in16:27
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thingeeDuncanT: so we're just leaving things in the queue?16:27
winston-dDuncanT: but it may still fail even scheduler already have one set of stats.16:27
dulekthingee: no, looping the scheduler means looping FilterScheduler calls16:27
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dulekthingee: not RPC calls16:28
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winston-dDuncanT: if the request unfortunately needs more than that backend can offer.16:28
DuncanTwinston-d: Keep trying it until you hit 60 seconds or it passes16:28
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jungleboyjDuncanT: That seems to make sense.16:28
DuncanTwinston-d: The worst case is the same as just waiting 60 seconds, but the average case is better16:28
thingeewinston-d: +1 yea that's what I was thinking16:28
dulekI agree with winston-d here16:29
winston-dDuncanT: when this change lands: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/158623/, I am pretty confident 95% cases, the scheduler will have all stats from c-vol(s) in a few seconds.16:29
jungleboyjDuncanT: So, worst case scenario is you have to wait 60 seconds to find out there isn't a backend that satisfies your needs?16:29
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hemnaso the c-vol service updates a report_count field every report interval16:29
DuncanTjungleboyj: Correct16:29
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thingeeI think I'm fine with this, but I need to know what looping means in the filter call. It seems to me if the scheduler has not valid hosts available, it shouldn't be taking anything from the MQ16:29
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hemnacan't the scheduler keep track of those at startup waiting for each of them to report16:30
hemnaand have some timeout for misbehaving/down c-vol services16:30
DuncanTwinston-d: the scheduler can look in the db and if it has received all the reports then it can terminate early, no problem16:30
hemnalike wait 2 reporting intervals16:30
thingeeDuncanT: is what I said earlier possible?16:30
hemnaand ignore the c-vol services that haven't updated in 2 intervals16:30
DuncanThemna: The timeout should be twice the interval, yup16:30
DuncanThemna: There's no way to stop the scheduler consuming incoming request at the moment though16:31
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DuncanThemna: So you have a create stalled for a full minute16:31
DuncanThemna: That doesn't need to be16:31
e0nethingee: we are limited in messaging impl to take or not to take something accroding to our needs16:31
jungleboyjhemna: +216:31
hemnawell I think it should be stalled until the scheduler recognizes that c-vol services have reported.16:31
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hemnaif they don't report, then it's hosed anyway16:31
thingeeseems like messaging impl should be updated to stall taking?16:31
DuncanTthingee: We can't make it not consume though, the olso messaging library won't let up16:31
thingeewere there push backs on that from the oslo team?16:32
thingeeor was it even proposed?16:32
e0nethingee: yep, if we or somebody fix it, cinder patch will be very small and clean16:32
DuncanTthingee: If we can get that into oslo, then sure, but I can't see how to do that given the way the rabbit connections are handled at the moment16:32
hemnadelay the start of listening to the API message queues16:32
hemnauntil the scheduler sees c-vol services reporting16:32
hemnathen register the listeners16:32
dulekhemna: Nope, then scheduler won't get metrics16:33
e0nehemna: +1. that is what we need16:33
hemnadulek, metrics?16:33
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hemnait has the connection to the DB16:33
dulekhemna: scheduler need to listen for metrics, but not listen to requests16:33
DuncanThemna: You need to get metrics on a different queue to the create RPC16:33
winston-dhemna: scheduler needs to broadcast a call to all c-vol when it starts 'hey, guys, send me your latest stats'.16:33
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dulekhemna: but scheduler gets volume metrics/stats from RPC instead of DB16:33
thingeeOk, so if I'm understanding things correctly, this only allows for X amount of time that things come in to resume them if the scheduler wasn't ready16:33
hemnawinston-d, isn't that on different message queues?16:34
thingeeand right not we're saying 60 seconds16:34
hemnathan API requests ?16:34
DuncanTthingee: Correct16:34
dulekhemna: no, it's the same16:34
winston-dhemna: current RPC handling code takes care of all xchange/queues in one call, IIRC.16:34
dulekwinston-d: true16:34
hemnadang :(16:35
winston-dhemna: so to be able to broadcast, you open the door for 'create', 'resize', all requests.16:35
dulekwe explored all these ideas you mention16:35
thingeeDuncanT, dulek: seems fine to me to wait X amount of time, when the first available host reports, start accepting16:35
dulekthat's why I presented just 2 alternatives - rest won't work16:35
thingeeeveryone in agreemnt?16:36
dulekthingee: hm, you're getting it wrong I think16:36
DuncanTthingee: You can't just wait for the first host, since it might not be able to take that volume16:36
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dulekthingee: so we're unable to stop accepting requests for X seconds16:36
e0nethingee: +1. and we need to raise this topic to oslo.messaging team16:36
DuncanTthingee: And waiting X time every time means a stalled create (or many) every time a scheduler comes up16:36
winston-dthingee: to be more accurate, we accepting once scheduler starts, dulek's change is to block those requests until schedule have, hopefully, all c-vol stats16:36
dulekwinston-d: that's true16:37
thingeewinston-d: that's what I was trying to convey.16:37
thingeedulek: ^16:37
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thingeebut how do you know when *all* have reported?16:37
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dulekthingee: We can hope that all of them should report in periodic_interval16:38
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dulekOr even faster with winston-d's patch16:38
winston-dthingee: sadly, we don't. scheuler has no idea what periodic_interval are set for each up&running c-vol.16:38
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thingeedulek: periodic interval to me seems like solution #1. which we were against because of unnecessary wait time16:38
winston-dthingee: scheduler crosses its fingers and hope c-vol shares the same value for 'periodic_interval' as itself and wait for one or two interval.16:39
DuncanTwinston-d: I think it is fair to require the periodic_interval in the cinder.conf on the scheduler to be right16:39
e0ne:)16:39
hemnahow about a new c-vol column called ready16:39
hemnathat signals to the scheduler that the c-vol service is ready to reprot16:39
hemnareport16:39
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DuncanThemna: no value, it can just send its stats RPC16:40
DuncanThemna: Remember you might have N shedulers16:40
dulekhemna: that column would have to mean - stats sent after scheduler startup16:40
hemnawell, meaning if the stop the scheduler from listening16:40
hemnathe scheduler can look for that column16:40
hemnaprior to listening16:40
jungleboyjHow big a deal is this really?  This is just at start time?  How often is the delay going to be an issue?16:40
hemnathe c-vol services can push the messages into the queue even if the scheduler isn't listening16:41
dulekhemna: yes, but there's no guarantee that it did before the request16:41
hemnadunno, I'm just trying to come up with ideas.16:41
winston-dDuncanT: unless we have ways to force cfg sync between c-sch and c-vol, the best case is to hope for the best.16:41
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thingeejungleboyj: +1 mostly I'm a little confused and we gain a little time to resume16:41
dulekhemna: request can still come before stats16:41
DuncanTwinston-d: We can start looking at putting config in the db... we've talked about that a few times16:42
hemnadulek, yah that's fine, the scheduler should be able to reject requests before it's ready16:42
jungleboyjthingee: I don't want to see a complicated solution for a small window.  Glad I am not the only one thinking it.16:42
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bswartzit sounds to me like the scheduler is just useless until 60 seconds after it comes up16:42
hemnabut the volume shouldn't be put in error state16:42
dulekhemna: But it will fetch it from the MQ and fail the volume creation16:42
winston-djungleboyj: exactly, this is not really a big deal, at least to me.16:42
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bswartzbut even in a HA config you should have multiple schedulers running, so if one needs to go down and come back up, it's just useless until 60 seconds later16:42
DuncanTbswartz: ++16:43
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thingeebswartz: +116:43
hemnawinston-d, jungleboyj well except in a busy deployment, you might get a bunch of volume create requests queued up as you bounce c-vol16:43
thingeeI would really like to see things fixed up in oslo message.16:43
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jungleboyjdulek: Can you answer why the delay is such a big concern?16:43
winston-dhemna: true16:43
DuncanThemna: If you bounce the scheduler right now then you get a bunch of volumes created in error16:43
jungleboyjhemna: I suppose.16:43
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dulekdulek: I'm all for the delay - my current implementation in the patch16:43
dulekjungleboyj: ^16:44
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DuncanTjungleboyj: The delay always being 60 seconds is my complaint... it should only be as long as it takes for the first suitable backend to report in16:44
DuncanTjungleboyj: i.e. approach (2) in the initial problem statement16:44
hemnaDuncanT, which should be 2 reporting cycles16:44
jungleboyjDuncanT: Ok, I can see that argument.16:44
winston-ddulek: +1, all my suggestions were about how to make the window smaller without too much trouble, if possible16:44
DuncanTjungleboyj: That can break fairness in the scheduler though, which some people don't like16:45
DuncanTjungleboyj: I'll take the unfairness over the stall, personally16:45
jungleboyjDuncanT: Again, it seems like a small window we are talking about.16:45
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winston-dDuncanT: problem is, that's a bit too ideal to me, 'first suitable backend' means scheduler will have to try many times.16:46
hemnaso the messaging approach is to leave the API requests on the queue until the scheduler is ready?16:46
DuncanTjungleboyj: A minute stall on volume creates will show up in our SLA for sure16:46
dulekSo can I just ask a question - fairness (scheduler making good decisions in that small time window) or stall16:46
dulek?16:46
DuncanThemna: Yes, but that requires bit messaging changes16:46
winston-dCory may be pissed given they have so many backends?16:46
hemnaDuncanT, seems like a good feature to have16:46
bswartzDuncanT: what if you have redundant schedulers though -- can't one that's working take the message while the other is waiting for stats?16:46
flip214DuncanT: if a minute stall is too long, you'll need active/active services.16:46
hemnalike a listening mask16:47
DuncanThemna: Definitely, but we need to fix this bug now.16:47
hemnayah :(16:47
DuncanTflip214: Active/active makes this worse16:47
dulekbswartz: It cannot, scheduler need to connect to get the stats16:47
dulekbswartz: once it connects - it gets everything, even requests16:47
DuncanTflip214: Active/active means when the second one comes up, it takes half the live requests but stalls them all for a minutes16:47
jungleboyjdulek: Sounds like having less stall is preferred.16:47
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DuncanTjungleboyj: ++16:47
bswartzso the scheduler needs a way to start accepting stats updates without accepting create requests16:48
dulekjungleboyj: thank you, I was getting more and more confused16:48
winston-ddulek: correctness and eventually/overall fairnes16:48
thingeeI think this needs to be more thought out honestly. I agree with jungleboyj that I don't really see what this is fixing. And it's as other people raised making other scheduler cases of active/active worse.16:48
dulekthingee: which solution?16:48
jungleboyjWheee!16:48
thingeethis delay thing. dulek, jungleboyj asked you what are we actually noticing being reported up as a problem here.16:49
winston-ddulek: i'm not too concerned about a few requests not being placing to the 'best' backend it can be.16:49
thingeeI didn't see an answer to that.16:49
DuncanTwinston-d: ++16:49
jungleboyjwinston-d: ++16:49
cebrunswinston-d: +1 Perfect is the enemy of good.16:49
jungleboyjThat is the feeling I am getting here.  I wouldn't want to wait 60 seconds every time we are restarted if it can be avoided.16:49
DuncanTthingee: Start a new scheduler (active/active for example). For 30 seconds, right now, half your volumes go into error16:49
dulekthingee: So the problem is - if there are requests in the queue and scheduler starts - it will fail all of them16:50
DuncanTthingee: That is the current bug16:50
hemnawinston-d, except it might fail via capabilities masking before the right backend reports16:50
thingeedulek: can you check if something is in the queue, if so, do we have a backend reported? no, ok delay16:51
thingeebut don't delay by default16:51
winston-dhemna: that's why DuncanT proposed scheudler only starts processing request when the first 'acceptable' backend is available.16:51
dulekthingee: No, oslo.messaging won't allow that now16:51
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thingeethe bug again seems in oslo.messaging.16:51
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dulekthingee: yes, we're talking about solution for kilo16:52
hemnathingee, or, we separate the queues for API -> scheduler and c-vol -> scheduler16:52
dulekthingee: as we agreed on the bug discussion that it's too late to request changes in oslo16:52
thingeedulek: you mean L right? think a release already went out16:52
hemnaand we don't listen to the API topic until the scheduler is ready.16:52
winston-dhemna: we have separate queues.16:52
thingeedulek: I wouldn't want this in K for cinder though. it's too late without seeing potential issues.16:52
hemnawinston-d, there is only 1 scheduler_topic16:52
hemnaI'm suggestion 2 scheduler topics16:53
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e0nehemna: the problem is we can't listen only on queue16:53
DuncanTthingee: This is a real bug in K right now16:53
dulekOkay, did we agreed that the patch should follow DuncanT's idea?16:53
hemna7 minutes left16:53
DuncanTthingee: We hit it in release testing, it is trivial to trigger16:53
hemnacan we continue to hack out ideas in cinder channel and move on ?16:53
thingeehemna: there is nothing else16:53
hemnaok16:54
dulekSo that would be - if we're in the 60-seconds-time-windows then we should ask scheduler_driver every second if it fails?16:54
* anteaya is hoping for open discussion16:54
thingeeok we'll continue to #openstack-cinder after the meeting16:54
thingee#topic open discussion16:54
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:54
anteayathanks16:54
anteayaso these are the jobs jenkins is running on cinder: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/project-config/tree/zuul/layout.yaml#n106616:55
anteayadoes everyone know what these mean or how to find out?16:55
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anteayabecause if not, I would like to help you so you can know16:55
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bswartzanteaya: I promise you not everyone knows16:55
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anteayasince when I asked about jobs running on cinder, or about to last week noone seemed to know about sheepdog16:56
anteayabswartz: I dont' take your word for it16:56
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anteayathey are here and can speak for themselves16:56
anteayabswartz: are you saying you know?16:56
anteayabswartz: because if so, that's great16:56
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cebrunsanteaya: I'll be honest and say I don't know.  :)16:56
bswartzI know where to find this stuff when I need to16:56
anteayacebruns: thanks16:56
anteayabswartz: great16:57
* jungleboyj doesn't16:57
anteayaI'm not pointing fingers, if anyting this is a failing from my end16:57
anteayawhich I want to fix16:57
anteayajungleboyj: great thank you16:57
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anteayaokay so I'd like to fix this so all folks in cinder who want to know know how to figure out what is running on jenkins against cinder repos16:57
anteayaI was thinking maybe a q and a tutorial?16:58
anteayawhat do folks think of that?16:58
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anteayanothing?16:58
anteayaam I invading your space?16:58
* flip214 turns up the volume to 1116:59
anteayaif this isn't helpful I can find the door16:59
smcginnisanteaya: Sounds good, but think we are out of time here.16:59
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flip214oh, it would be very interesting!16:59
duleksome of guys are already on openstack-cinder16:59
anteayafair enough16:59
winston-danteaya: tutorial would be nice16:59
cebrunsanteaya: I think it's good.16:59
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dulekanteaya: tutorial would be great16:59
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anteayaokay thanks let me work on that16:59
anteayaI'm done16:59
jungleboyjanteaya: I am fine with that.16:59
jungleboyjThanks.16:59
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thingeethanks everyone17:00
winston-danteaya: thx17:00
thingeethanks anteaya17:00
thingee#endmeeting17:00
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:00
openstackMeeting ended Wed Feb 25 17:00:14 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2015/cinder.2015-02-25-16.00.html17:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2015/cinder.2015-02-25-16.00.txt17:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2015/cinder.2015-02-25-16.00.log.html17:00
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tjones1#startmeeting vmwareapi17:01
openstackMeeting started Wed Feb 25 17:01:00 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is tjones1. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)"17:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'vmwareapi'17:01
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tjones1hi folks17:01
thangpo/17:01
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rgerganovhello17:01
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tjones1lets get started17:02
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tjones1thangp: did you get an traction on that bug you were asking about last week?17:02
thangpnope17:02
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thangpi think it's not a high priority bug or item right now17:03
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tjones1did you ask on the ML or on irc for cores to help look at it…  yeah it is probably not. hmmm..  after k-3 people will be looking at bug fixes more17:03
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thangpok...i asked a couple of cores for reviews17:04
thangpnothing yet17:04
tjones1did they respond at all - like "no time right now" or ignore?17:04
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thangpignore17:04
tjones1:-(17:05
thangpi guess we can wait until after k-317:05
thangpvmware doesnt get a lot of love from nova :P17:05
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tjones1yeah i guess so.  Lets update https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/VMwareapi-kilo with the links to the bugs we want to push after k-3.17:06
thangpit will eventually get through, i hope17:06
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thangpok, will do17:06
tjones1i added a link a the bottomw for but fixes17:06
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tjones1rgerganov:  w.r.t. the hypervisor name vs id - is that a DB change?17:07
rgerganovyes, it is17:07
tjones1:-(17:07
rgerganovI discussed that with mdbooth17:07
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rgerganovhe believes that we should enforce only the uniqueness for now17:07
* mdbooth waves17:08
rgerganovmdbooth: hey :)17:08
tjones1would be really good to get in - he mdbooth.  you guys think this is likely for k given a db change??17:08
mdboothrgerganov: Yes, I'm in favour of the change, but don't want to mix it in with another change.17:08
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rgerganovmdbooth: agree. let's try to make the field unique first17:09
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tjones1it's a step in the right direction.  do you have a link handy?17:09
rgerganovhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/158269/17:09
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mdboothtjones1: As for K, it's related to a critical bug, so the process *should* allow it.17:10
tjones1thanks17:10
tjones1added it to the list17:10
mdboothWhether it will is a different matter.17:10
tjones1yeah :-P17:11
rgerganovmdbooth: I didn't know that Ironic is also using non-hostnames for hypervisor_hostname17:11
mdboothYeah, uuids17:11
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mdboothAs I'm here, will there be an opportunity to discuss https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1329261?17:12
openstackLaunchpad bug 1329261 in VMwareAPI-Team "vmware: VCdriver creates same hypervisor_hostname for different vcenters with same Cluster name" [Critical,In progress]17:12
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mdboothapologies if it was covered earlier17:12
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tjones1it was not - and yes we can17:12
mdboothIs now good?17:13
tjones1yes - go for it17:13
mdboothSo, I picked this up because rgerganov mentioned it and it's kinda related to the other thing17:13
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mdboothI've rebased the change, but I've been thinking about the data migration issue17:14
mdboothInstances with the wrong node seems less severe than instances with the wrong host17:15
mdboothBut I can't help but feel that bad things will happen if we don't migrate them17:15
mdboothDoes anybody here have a good handle on that?17:15
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rgerganovso we need to migrate both compute nodes *and* instances?17:16
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mdboothCompute nodes should fix themselves17:17
mdboothi.e. a new one will be created automatically on startup17:17
mdboothAnd the old one will just go stale17:17
mdbooththere's some mechanism which will clean it up iirc17:17
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mdboothBut instance.node will now point to a non-existent compute node17:18
mdboothI scanned the code, and almost nothing outside the driver uses it17:18
mdboothBut almost > nothing17:18
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rgerganovI remember that some of the core reviewers wanted to remove the node property17:18
mdboothAnd I couldn't convince myself that it was definitely safe to leave alone17:18
mdboothWell that's not going to happen any time soon without kicking Ironic out of tree17:19
rgerganovwhat if we create a script which updates the node field of existing instances?17:19
rgerganovthere was a nova-manage or something like that ...17:20
rgerganovsec.17:20
mdboothI thought of that. It's going to need to be passed the vcenter's uuid as a parameter17:20
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rgerganovthat should be fine I guess17:21
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mdboothI had an idea to do it in init_host17:21
mdboothIt's already getting a list of all instances associated with a host17:21
mdboothIf it passed that list to the driver, we could update it at startup17:22
rgerganovbut that means putting VMware specific code in the compute manager?17:22
rgerganovmaybe I am missing something17:22
mdboothIt would mean adding an extra driver method17:22
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mdboothand having the vmware driver implement it17:23
rgerganovno one will approve that :)17:23
tjones1hahahaha17:23
mdboothMy thoughts precisely :/17:23
rgerganovlet's go with a migration plan which involves running a script17:23
rgerganovwe did the same when deprecated the ESX driver as far as I remember17:24
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mdboothSo the current patch does this:17:24
mdboothhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/99623/16/nova/virt/vmwareapi/driver.py,cm17:24
mdbooth_normalize_nodename17:24
mdboothHow about we leave that in there, and handle the data migration independently?17:25
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rgerganovin other words supporting the old node names for some period of time?17:26
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mdboothTo be precise, it would mean that the *driver* would support the old node names17:26
mdboothThere may be other Nova code that doesn't like the mix of node names17:27
mdboothThat's the bit I was concerned about17:27
mdboothI couldn't convince myself it doesn't exist17:27
rgerganovok, I get it now17:27
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rgerganovare you going to post the rebased patch?17:28
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mdboothrgerganov: Yes17:28
rgerganovok, thanks17:28
mdboothNot this evening, though17:28
rgerganovno hurry :)17:28
mdboothIt's mostly done.17:28
mdboothPassing all tests.17:28
tjones1i've added this one to the list BTW17:28
tjones1we'll want to get a minesweeper run on it of course17:29
mdbooth+117:29
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tjones1any other critical bugs we should be trying to get into k?17:29
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tjones1anything else anyone wants to bring up?17:33
tjones1if not we are done17:33
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rgerganovI don't have anything else17:34
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tjones1ok thanks guys.  have a good week17:34
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tjones1#endmeeting17:34
rgerganovthanks17:34
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:34
openstackMeeting ended Wed Feb 25 17:34:35 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:34
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2015/vmwareapi.2015-02-25-17.01.html17:34
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2015/vmwareapi.2015-02-25-17.01.txt17:34
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2015/vmwareapi.2015-02-25-17.01.log.html17:34
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sarob#startmeeting trainers18:03
openstackMeeting started Wed Feb 25 18:03:28 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is sarob. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: trainers)"18:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'trainers'18:03
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sarobthis will be informational as we have not officially started up this group yet18:04
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sarob#info openstack trainer cert test creation group is starting. public information very soon.18:04
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sarob#info training-guides has branched icehouse, almost finished with juno branch18:05
sarob#info juno branch will be cut early march18:05
sarob#info published html slides will be standard for the juno branch and going forward18:06
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sarobanyone else ?18:06
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sarobmorning salman_18:07
Salman_morning sarob18:07
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sarobjuno branch is almost ready18:07
Salman_great18:07
sarobwe have some of the slides merged18:07
sarobwe are working through the slide publishing automation18:08
Salman_That will be great if slides can be automatically published18:08
sarobagreed18:08
sarobwe should have it worked out by early next week18:09
sarobslightly different RST formats18:09
sarobwe are figuring out which is best18:09
sarobdguitarbite: you around?18:09
Salman_Is there a link available to peek into the site... before it become available to everyone.18:10
Salman_before it becomes GA18:10
sarobhtml is not published yet18:10
Salman_ok18:10
sarobafter we get it published to18:11
Salman_is there any beta-site link?18:11
sarob#link openstack.org/trunk/training-guides18:11
Salman_ok18:11
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sarobwill be where the new content18:11
saroblives18:11
sarobright now it is stale icehouse xml html18:12
Salman_ok18:12
sarob#link http://docs.openstack.org/icehouse/training-guides/content/18:12
sarobis current stable18:12
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sarob#link http://docs.openstack.org/trunk/training-guides/18:13
sarobwill always be 'beta'18:13
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sarobonce juno is cut18:13
sarob#link http://docs.openstack.org/juno/training-guides/content/18:13
sarobwill be stable release18:13
Salman_ok18:13
saroband so on18:13
sarobi am going to ask for the training-guides link be added to the training marketplace under openstack online help18:14
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sarob#link http://openstack.org/marketplace/training18:14
sarobonce that is done18:15
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sarobwe restart user group training sessions18:15
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saroband ill ask for our scheduled training sessions to be18:15
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sarobadded inline with the rest of the training18:15
sarobit should be awesome for turnout18:16
Salman_I think we should provide link from openstack help to land to the training site as well18:16
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sarobhelp?18:16
Salman_what kind if help?18:17
Salman_what kind of help?18:17
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sarobyou said "I think we should provide link from openstack help to land to the training site as well"18:17
sarobwhat is that?18:17
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Salman_I am thinking that when someone installs the openstack and click help, they should be able to land to the site of training-slides.18:18
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Salman_Right now I don't remember if the openstack online help has any link to the training site.18:19
sarobhmm, doesnt go to doc.openstack.org?18:19
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Salman_not sure..18:20
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sarobdocs.openstack.org has get training button up top18:20
sarobwe can add the training guides icehouse release in user guides18:21
sarobalso in the training marketplace where the docs.openstack.org button links to18:21
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Salman_under docs there should be link to the "training"18:22
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Salman_I mean docs should have drop-down and one link should be training18:22
sarobdropdown?18:22
sarobthats a different design than what docs is using right now18:23
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sarobid settle for a spot under user guides18:23
Salman_Agreed..18:25
sarobanything else?18:25
Salman_when is next meetup?18:25
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sarobwhen do you have time?18:27
sarobdo we want to wait for slide publishing first?18:28
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sarobwhats your preferred block of time?18:28
saroblike once a week for 6 weeks or twice a week for 3 weeks18:29
Salman_I can spare time on Thursday evenings..18:29
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Salman_once a week is what I can be available.18:29
sarobsounds good18:29
sarobwe should figure out a backup and or assistant18:30
sarobso its not all on you18:30
Salman_Yes, that will be great..18:30
saroblets get the publishing going18:30
Salman_indeed18:31
Salman_anything else?18:31
sarobnext trainers meeting we set a prelim time to restart sfo training?18:31
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Salman_ok18:31
sarob#action next meeting we set prelim schedule for sfo associate training18:31
sarob#action sarob find salman an assistant18:31
sarobim good18:31
sarobsee you next week18:32
Salman_signing off now18:32
sarob#endmeeting18:32
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"18:32
openstackMeeting ended Wed Feb 25 18:32:18 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:32
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/trainers/2015/trainers.2015-02-25-18.03.html18:32
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/trainers/2015/trainers.2015-02-25-18.03.txt18:32
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/trainers/2015/trainers.2015-02-25-18.03.log.html18:32
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notmynameswift meeting time18:59
notmyname#startmeeting swift18:59
openstackMeeting started Wed Feb 25 18:59:49 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:59
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:59
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)"18:59
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'swift'18:59
notmynamewho's here for the swift meeting?18:59
pelusehowdy19:00
jrichlihere19:00
kota_hi19:00
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gvernikhello19:00
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torgomaticπŸ‘‹19:00
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notmynametorgomatic: you always intro yourself with an emoji19:00
mattoliverauo/19:00
notmynamemattoliverau: good morning19:00
tdasilvahi19:00
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notmynamekota_: glad you're here. we were just looking at one of your patches19:01
cschwedehello19:01
torgomaticnotmyname: πŸ˜ƒ19:01
notmynamecschwede: dinner was good?19:01
notmyname#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Swift19:01
cschwedenotmyname: yes, thx :)19:01
notmynameok, just a few things to cover this week. mostly a status check19:02
notmynamefirst up, as promised last week, I'll be focusing on EC status19:02
notmyname#topic EC status19:02
*** openstack changes topic to "EC status (Meeting topic: swift)"19:02
notmynameGET patches have landed19:02
notmynameyay19:02
notmynametorgomatic: peluse: what's missing from them?19:02
pelusewrite *and* read, wow19:02
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peluseall the partial PUT failure stuff on the GET side is missing19:03
pelusebut there's a trello card for that19:03
notmynamegotcha19:03
pelusetsg is, any minute, going to push the updated multiphase patch that has all of PUT complete19:03
notmynamegreat19:03
peluseexcept the correct ETAG/content-length in the DB19:03
notmynameand peluse has the reconstructor patch19:03
pelusethat will be a new patch (item on trello) that thiago has agreed to knock out after alistair's override path clands19:04
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notmynamenice19:04
peluseyes, on the reconstructor19:04
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pelusemore progress on unit tests, etc. hwoever I think I'm going to take a day and break it up a bit19:04
notmynamemultiple patches?19:04
peluseat least try to spearate the non-reconstructor diskfile chagnes out19:04
peluseyes19:04
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notmynameok19:04
peluseessentially support for multiple fragment archive indexes19:05
notmynameit does seem kinda big19:05
* acoles apologises for late arrival19:05
notmynameacoles: no worries19:05
pelusebecause that will be needed by the remaining GET work which won't want to depend on my growing reconstructor patch19:05
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peluseso that will be the rest of my week... trying to carve that out and push an update to reconstructor as well19:05
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notmynamepeluse: and so you expect that to be split up tomorrow some time?19:05
peluseor Fri19:06
notmynameah. endof-week19:06
notmynameok19:06
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pelusemaybe tomorrow :)19:06
notmynameso looking at trello19:06
notmyname#link https://trello.com/b/LlvIFIQs/swift-erasure-codes19:06
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peluseI will be setting up some time to online code review on Fri as well19:06
notmynamewe've got the GET handling you mentioned. the PUT to land. and the multi part reconstructor piece19:06
notmynameand tests and docs19:06
peluseyup19:07
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notmynamebut looking at the functional pieces required to have a beta in kilo, that's what we've got19:07
notmynameso, for everyone, is there something missing?19:07
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peluseI *think* the red items on trello make a good beta19:07
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notmynamewe've talked a little about the docs parts. I think some docs are necessary (at least "how to set it up and use it"), but all those IMO aren't required19:08
notmynameeg perf considerations or best prectices19:08
pelusewhat's our target for landing the beta requirements on feature/ec?19:08
notmynameI don't think we have any idea19:08
notmyname(about the docs)19:08
peluse:)19:08
peluseI figured19:08
claygpeluse: right before we propose to master19:09
notmyname:-)19:09
peluseha!19:09
cschwedemaybe i missed that, but what if the reconciler has to move from 3-replicas to EC? is that/will that be supported?19:09
notmynamecschwede: good questions19:09
notmynameclayg: any ideas? just works? needs code?19:09
claygcschwede: we'll have to test it now that we have most of EC working - but internal client shouldn't really care about the source and destination policies19:09
peluseyup, agreed19:09
claygGET -> PUT if it works for the client it should work for the reconciler19:10
peluseback to the data question....19:10
pelusenotmyname?19:10
pelusedate, not data19:10
notmynameok, dates..19:10
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notmynameby next week we need to make a call. do we have enough velocity and small enough scope to finish what we'd be ok calling a beta by kilo19:11
claygpeluse: i don't understand - we want everything on feature ec as soon as possible, but having docs on feature/ec two weeks before the two week merge period to master doesn't seem useful19:11
notmynamewe have about 4 weeks from now to start the merge to master19:11
notmynameand then 2 weeks for the merge19:11
notmynamethen the RC19:11
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peluselooking at calendar, one sec19:11
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peluseso around Mar 25 start the merge to master you're thinking?19:12
claygnot very far away19:12
pelusenope, and I'll be drinking wine in Napa Mar 26/27 BTW19:12
* notmyname pulls out notes19:12
peluse20 yr anniversary and all...19:13
notmynamenice19:13
notmynamemar 2719:13
pelusebut if that's the case the timing for our Mar 18 mini-F2F is just about perfect for identifying/wrapping loose ends, planning merge stratgy19:13
notmynameestimating the RC on april 1019:13
mattoliveraunothing say anniversary like some EC work :P19:13
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peluseyeah, that's go over well!  Hold on honey, gottta check zuul....19:14
mattoliveraulol19:14
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notmynameso I think this last week (since last meeting), things have gone well. thank you to everyone for that19:15
peluseOK, so anyway.  yeah I think we can make it.  Big thing for me is breaking the recon up a bit and spending some quality review time especially in some of the test code19:15
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pelusecan we get another core set of eyes on acoles header patch?19:15
notmynamefor those looking to review something, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/158821/ by acoles is necessary for EC and crypto19:16
cschwedepeluse: yep me19:16
peluse#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/158821/19:16
pelusethanks19:16
notmynamepeluse: and tsg will be pushing new patch sets asap?19:16
notmynamethat's the blocker there, I think19:16
pelusehe was aiming to have it done before this meeting.  since he's not here I assume he is frantically working on it :)19:16
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notmyname:-)19:16
notmynameok19:16
torgomaticI looked at that patch some, but then I fell into the rabbit hole of failing probetests19:16
torgomatichope to get back to it today19:16
tdasilvasame here19:16
notmynameok, thanks for the status update19:17
acolespeluse: let me know if there is anything more that i can usefully do building on that patch19:17
peluselook for tsg's patch today, I'mm mention it in IRC when it comes out19:17
notmynamekota_: FYI you might be interested in some of those probetest failures. see the playback in #openstack-swift for details19:17
notmynamepeluse: thanks19:17
notmynameok, moving on19:17
notmyname#topic fsync on dirs19:17
*** openstack changes topic to "fsync on dirs (Meeting topic: swift)"19:17
notmynamethis is something we spent time on at the hackathon19:17
peluseacoles, I think its good.  tdasilva already did some quick testing w/the DLO failure on EC GET and it worked (he can comment more) and will be finishing the EC specific stuff in that area after it lands19:17
notmyname#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/126923/19:17
notmynametdasilva: I think you wanted a status update on it19:18
notmynamelooks like ppai has pushed a new patch set19:18
tdasilvaacoles: I can provide a paste so you can see the patch I have for EC and how i'm building on top of your patch19:18
notmynameand acoles has some updated benchmark numbers19:18
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pelusetdasilva, me too please19:18
tdasilvanotmyname: yeah...we left the hackathon trying to make a decision and waiting to hear from rackspace guys19:18
acolestdasilva: ok cool19:18
* peluse apoligizes for not switching gears fat enough :)19:19
kota_notmyname: ya, interesting (about probetests)19:19
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acolesre fsync on dirs i repeated my benchmark just fsyncing the leaf dir and it made no difference19:19
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notmynametdasilva: ah, yes. we didn't hear anything from rackers yet. I'll add them to the review. but otherwise, Ithink it's ready to go19:19
notmynametdasilva: the latest patch set has the comments we made in person? eg the always on, no config?19:20
tdasilvanotmyname: ok, just wanted to make sure19:20
notmynametdasilva: IMO it should be reviewed, and I'll add dfg and glange and hurricanerix_ to it19:20
tdasilvanotmyname: need to double check, but I believe so19:20
notmynameok19:20
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tdasilvanotmyname: yep, no option19:21
notmynameI'll also add it to priority reviews19:21
notmynameanythign else on that patch?19:21
notmynametdasilva: thanks for bringing it up?19:21
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notmynames/?//19:21
tdasilvanotmyname: nothing from me19:21
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notmynameok19:21
cutforthsorry, i'm late folks19:21
notmynamecutforth: welcome19:22
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notmyname#topic python-swiftclient19:22
*** openstack changes topic to "python-swiftclient (Meeting topic: swift)"19:22
notmynamethere's been a lot of stuff that's landed on swiftclient since the last release was tagged19:22
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zaitcevI think MD5 is the biggest, the rest is meh.19:22
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* cschwede agrees with zaitcev 19:22
notmynamefor those of you who have been looking at it, what are your thoughts on tagging a new release?19:22
notmynamezaitcev: you had the pseudo dirs crash fix. that's good19:23
acolesnotmyname: there's one of jeol's patches might be good to land19:23
notmynameacoles: ok. got a link?19:23
acolesmin19:23
zaitcevoh, that was a while ago. I also fixed Darrell's crash. But those were safe from regressions, relatively speaking.19:24
clayg#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/130339/19:24
acolessorry gerrit slow https://review.openstack.org/13033919:24
notmynameclayg: acoles: thanks19:24
zaitcevRight, the shuffle19:24
acolesclayg: beat me :)19:24
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acolesbeen a while since i looked at it so need to revisit19:25
zaitcevI think I have a question, if anyone understands. We used to shuffle everything. Now we shuffle inside a page (even if it's enabled). So... How big is the page?19:25
notmynameok. I'll track that one and look at a release after it lands19:25
notmynamethanks19:25
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claygzaitcev: ~10K19:25
zaitcevThat patch has surprisingly big benefit, if you run "time swift download blah" it shows hundreds of kilobytes less even for rather small downloads.19:26
notmynamecool19:26
cschwedewait a second, is the latest release from september 2014? ok, there are a lot of interesting commits then19:26
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notmyname:-)19:27
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zaitcevProbably might as well cut it before the shuffle patch, to be safe. I'll package it into Fedora right away.19:27
notmynamebefore? why?19:28
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zaitcevwell, to have a known-good release...19:28
notmynameif it's reviewed and tested and landed, I'd call it known-good19:29
notmynameunless there's a big gotcha in this one. anyone else have strong thoughts? acoles? clayg?19:30
notmynameI see19:30
notmyname;-)19:30
acolesiirc from when i last looked the only issue i had was how to verify the download sequencing19:30
acolesin unit tests19:30
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notmynamethis is the part of the meeting that you make fun of me about: "anything? anyone?" <wait 30 secs> "ok, moving on...."19:31
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acolesi'll look at it again tomorrow19:32
notmynamezaitcev: if you've got some strong concerns, i'm fine with cutting one before. but if it's reviewed and tested, I'm fine with including it in a release19:32
notmynameacoles: thanks19:32
acolesnotmyname: sorry, memory has faded a bit on that one19:32
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notmynameno worries19:32
zaitcevnotmyname: I don't have strong concerns.19:33
notmynameok19:33
notmyname#topic open discussion19:33
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: swift)"19:33
notmynameanything else?19:33
notmynamethat's all I've got for this week19:33
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notmyname<wait X seconds>19:33
acolestick - tock19:33
notmyname:-)19:34
notmynameok19:34
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notmynamethanks everyone for attending and working on swift!19:34
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notmyname#endmeeting19:34
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:34
openstackMeeting ended Wed Feb 25 19:34:20 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:34
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2015/swift.2015-02-25-18.59.html19:34
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2015/swift.2015-02-25-18.59.txt19:34
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2015/swift.2015-02-25-18.59.log.html19:34
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asalkeld#startmeeting heat20:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Feb 25 20:00:14 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is asalkeld. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)"20:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'heat'20:00
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prazumovskyhello20:00
asalkeld#topic rollcall20:00
stevebakerhi20:00
*** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: heat)"20:00
jpeelerhello20:00
dgonzalezhi20:00
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shardyo/20:00
miguelgrinberghello20:00
inc0\o20:00
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pas-hao/20:01
skraynevhi all20:01
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spzalahi20:01
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asalkeld#topic Adding items to the agenda20:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Adding items to the agenda (Meeting topic: heat)"20:01
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asalkeldany new topics?20:02
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asalkeldok, moving on20:03
asalkeldthere is alway open discussion20:03
asalkeld#topic Vancouver Design Summit space needs20:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Vancouver Design Summit space needs (Meeting topic: heat)"20:03
asalkeldttx needs to figure out what space we need at summit20:04
zanebo/20:04
asalkeld#link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14pryalH3rVVQGHdyE3QeeZ3eDrs_1KfqfykxSTvrfyI/edit?usp=sharing20:04
skraynevzaneb: morning20:04
asalkeldcan you guys view this20:04
stevebakerI can20:04
ryansbyup20:04
zanebasalkeld: yep20:04
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asalkeldok so there are some rules20:05
asalkeldYou shouldn't ask for more than 18 sessions total (fishbowl + work)20:05
zanebremind me what a work session is?20:05
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* zaneb knew this at one point20:05
stevebakerlike a fishbowl in a smaller bowl?20:05
asalkeldwork sesion is small semi closed door20:05
zanebok20:05
asalkeldless spectators20:06
asalkeldspectators good for usability stuff20:06
asalkeldassuming they use heat20:06
skraynevagree20:06
inc0uhh....when it comes to usability, everyone has different opinion20:06
stevebakerI guess topics that affect operators and users would be good for fishbowl20:06
shardyinc0: true, but operator/end-user feedback is good vs all developers :)20:07
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inc0stevebaker, +1 , something about HA of heat would be good20:07
asalkeldso I put down 5 fishbowl and 10 work + 1 friday20:07
asalkeldany tweaking ?20:07
asalkeldsuggestions ??20:07
shardysounds good to me20:08
stevebakerthat sounds fine20:08
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zanebsounds pretty good20:08
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asalkeldok cool20:08
shardywe had an etherpad with session suggestions didn't we?20:08
* shardy looks for it20:08
zanebhopefully the fishbowl will reduce the need for 2 sessions on Friday20:08
zanebas long as we get Friday AM20:08
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inc0shardy, https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-heat-summit-topics20:08
asalkeld+1 to that20:08
zanebbecause everyone always leaves at lunch time for some reason20:08
stevebakerthe gibbering wreck session20:08
inc0ahh wrong release20:08
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inc0https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-heat-sessions20:09
zanebsorry s/fishbowl/work sessions/20:09
shardy#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-heat-sessions20:09
shardyinc0: thanks20:09
asalkeldneed to start adding ideas to that20:10
inc0shardy, by the way, maybe you'd like to say word or two about decouple nested?20:10
asalkeldwe do have a heap of sessions to fill20:10
asalkeldinc0: in this topic?20:10
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skraynevasalkeld: also , I think we should re-read heat usability - improvements page and remove some completed staff20:11
inc0yeah, seems like nice leap in terms of heat HA20:11
shardyinc0: we can chat about that in open discussion, by all means20:11
asalkeldi'll move on20:11
asalkeld#topic Heat Mission statement:20:11
*** openstack changes topic to "Heat Mission statement: (Meeting topic: heat)"20:11
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asalkeldthis is just a heads up, that someone posted a new one20:11
shardyOh no, not this again! ;)20:11
asalkeldas ours is missing20:11
stevebakerdiediedie20:12
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asalkeld#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/154049/20:12
skraynevlol...20:12
asalkeldcan't we just get a simple something in there?20:12
asalkeld"heat makes stuff with templates" ;)20:12
stevebakerI thought we had one somewhere else20:13
inc0"heat makes stuff" is enough;)20:13
zanebwith programs going away, I'm not sure this is even needed any more20:13
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zanebit's definitely a lot less critical to get the wording right20:13
asalkeldyip20:13
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zanebsince in the big tent, competing projects are welcome20:13
stevebakeryeah, heat is a project, and that proposed mission seems to sum up what it does. +120:14
shardy#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/116703/1/reference/programs.yaml20:14
zanebso there's no danger of staking out too much space20:14
shardythat's the original review which some of us commented on20:14
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stevebakermaybe s/standardized/declarative/20:14
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zanebstevebaker: +120:15
shardystevebaker: +120:15
asalkeldtemplate based declarative resource orchestration?20:15
inc0I'd add a word that heat is really only project with full context of network, compute and so on...but someone with better english would have to rephrase that20:15
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stevebakerinc0: I think "composite cloud applications" implies that20:16
asalkeldactually what stevebaker said is fine20:16
asalkeldstevebaker: you adding that as a comment?20:17
pas-ha+1 for declarative, we keep fighting off imperative stuff :)20:17
ryansb+1 seriously.20:17
zaneb+220:17
asalkeldours was too wordy20:18
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asalkeldcool to move on?20:18
stevebakerplease20:18
asalkeld#topic update from cross project20:19
*** openstack changes topic to "update from cross project (Meeting topic: heat)"20:19
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asalkeld#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Release_Cycle_Management/Liberty_Tracking20:19
asalkeldplease all read that ^ sometime20:19
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asalkeldalso there is this use asyncio / threads spec20:19
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asalkeld(getting link)20:20
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asalkeld#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/openstack-specs,n,z20:20
asalkeldwe should all be adding feedback there I think20:21
asalkeldor at least if you are passionate about the $topic20:21
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stevebakerwhere did starting heat-engine with multiple workers end up?20:21
asalkeldstevebaker: afaik it works20:21
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asalkeldshardy: ^20:21
zanebI believe it works but is not on by default20:22
shardyYeah it works, or at least it did last time I tested it20:22
shardyGetting it tested in the gate would be cool, but there was disagreement about running multiple workers by default20:22
stevebakerso in theory heat-engine could just ditch eventlet entirely and we call workers our concurrency solution?20:22
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inc0uhh...having to move whole thing to pure async will cost a lot of work...20:22
asalkeldinc0: i agree with that20:23
asalkeldprefer stevebaker solution20:23
inc0async is cool, but its hell for debugging20:23
zanebstevebaker: arguably it's more complicated than that20:23
asalkeldprocesses + messaging20:23
* stevebaker waves dismissable and mumbles20:23
asalkeldok, moving on - this was just a heads up20:24
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asalkeldstuff is happening20:24
stevebakerthanks for the update20:24
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zanebstevebaker: workers are just engines that are not managed by systemd20:24
asalkeld#topic Short question about increasing nested depth default value for using it in Sahara.20:24
*** openstack changes topic to "Short question about increasing nested depth default value for using it in Sahara. (Meeting topic: heat)"20:25
skraynevit's mine20:25
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stevebakerwhat is the default depth currently?20:25
skraynevcould we increase this value to 4 or 5 https://github.com/openstack/heat/blob/master/heat/common/config.py#L80 ?20:25
asalkeld320:25
stevebakerthats really low20:25
shardyYeah it does seem pretty low now, given all the provider resources etc20:25
pas-harecent discussion with Sahara devs suggests that they need it at least 4 if they move to all-Heat internal orchestration20:26
skraynevpas-ha: it's for now ;) so may be we want to make it bigger then 4 ;)20:26
pas-hayep, that's for starters20:26
asalkeldpas-ha: the use resource group?20:27
pas-hayes20:27
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skraynevasalkeld: yes20:27
asalkeldwith a template as the resource20:27
skraynevnested resource groups20:27
stevebakerthe only reason we had a nested depth limit was because it was expensive to do a total resource count. Don't we store resource counts now? We could rely on a resource limit instead of nested limit20:27
asalkeldso that's 3 levels right there?20:27
asalkeldstevebaker: it's the same20:27
pas-haCluster->NodeGroup->NodeGroupElement->Instance+ResourceGroup->volumes20:27
asalkeldstevebaker: i really need to change tat20:27
skraynevstack -> resource_group1 -> resource_group220:28
asalkeldas we can't pass parent_resource object20:28
skraynevit is 420:28
asalkeldso each stack would need to reload every stack20:28
skraynevpas-ha: thinks in the same graphic way:)20:28
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asalkeldwhich is horrible20:28
shardyhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/133122720:28
openstackLaunchpad bug 1331227 in heat "nested stack depth too low" [Wishlist,Opinion]20:28
skraynevstevebaker: agree20:29
asalkeldstevebaker: it should be a db lookup20:29
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stevebakerasalkeld: it should. I thought it was already20:29
asalkeldstevebaker: the nested level is in the db, the total res count is not20:30
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asalkeldmore levels == more stacks to load and s.total_resources()20:30
asalkeldhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/156546/20:31
asalkeldi am working on that 620:31
asalkeld^20:31
inc0I think that should be solvable by some clever sql query tho20:31
asalkeldskraynev: so yeah lets  increase it, but we need to think about total_resources()20:32
asalkeldinc0: +120:32
stevebakerso in the short term we could raise the limit to ... 5? but we need to acknowelege that this makes us vulnerable to users launching DOS stacks with lots of resources20:32
skraynevI am ok with 520:32
asalkeldyeah, and make a bug for this20:32
pas-hamax resource count is 1000, counting the nested too?20:33
asalkeld#topic Mistral resources in Heat.20:33
*** openstack changes topic to "Mistral resources in Heat. (Meeting topic: heat)"20:33
stevebakerlonger term our resource limit needs to apply to all resources (including nested)20:33
asalkeldstevebaker: it does20:33
stevebakerasalkeld: oh, it does?20:33
asalkeldthat's why it's so horrible20:34
skraynevabout  topic: this is mine too ;)20:34
stevebakerasalkeld: its just expensive to calculate?20:34
shardystevebaker: yeah, it does, but the way we do it isn't nice20:34
stevebakeroh, oki20:34
prazumovskyhttps://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/heat+branch:master+topic:bp/mistral-resources-for-heat,n,z20:34
asalkeldstevebaker: yip as inc0 suggested we need a db query20:34
skraynevboth resources are ready for review20:34
asalkeld#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/heat+branch:master+topic:bp/mistral-resources-for-heat,n,z20:35
inc0asalkeld, I'll look into it in next few days20:35
asalkeldthanks inc020:35
stevebakerinc0: or an extra stack column with the resource count (including nested)20:35
skraynevalso we prepared this document with use-cases and examples: https://docs.google.com/a/mirantis.com/document/d/10iAe--I17c7iFoN0Ouk2DxdrxjsV-QTuzqqNdHzq2-Y/edit?usp=sharing20:35
skraynev#link https://docs.google.com/a/mirantis.com/document/d/10iAe--I17c7iFoN0Ouk2DxdrxjsV-QTuzqqNdHzq2-Y/edit?usp=sharing20:35
asalkeldprazumovsky: nice, sorry haven't come back to review20:35
inc0stevebaker, I'll start with query...I dislike redundancy like that - its prone to desynchronizations20:36
shardynice work, I've been meaning to try these20:36
inc0but we'll see how it goes20:36
skraynevshardy: welcome to play with it ;)20:36
stevebakerinc0: ok, sounds fine20:36
shardyI can't access the doc20:36
shardyskraynev: can you put the docs in-tree with the resources as rst, or short term put it in a wiki/etherpad?20:37
skraynevshardy: sure20:37
shardygreat, thanks20:37
skraynevwill do it tomorrow ;)20:37
skraynevand will send email with related information20:38
shardyIt will be good to see some simple examples to see how it works :)20:38
asalkeldyeah nice work, just need time to review20:38
asalkeldprazumovsky: skraynev need any other input?20:39
skraynevshardy: yes. they are. hope, that it will be interesting ;)20:39
asalkeldor just an update?20:39
skraynevasalkled: updatem that it's ready for review20:40
asalkeldthanks skraynev20:40
skraynevs/updatem/update,20:40
asalkeldi'll move to open discussion20:40
asalkeld#topic open discussion20:40
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)"20:40
prazumovskysorry, thank you, skraynev for answer20:40
skraynevprazumovsky: np20:40
jpeeleri have something20:41
jpeelerMy day to day role has shifted away from Heat and so I think it's best that I step down from core, rather than get voted out later due to inactivity20:41
jpeelerIs this meeting an official enough announcement or do I need to send out an email?20:41
asalkeldjpeeler: :-(20:41
inc0shardy, about talk about decouple-nested - I got questions all the time about lack of HA in heat - I think any improvement in this matter would be good to announce broadly20:41
inc0ops still distrust us:(20:42
shardyjpeeler: sorry to hear that, thanks for all the work until now :)20:42
skraynevjpeeler: bad news...20:42
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asalkeldjpeeler: not sure, normally an email to mailing list?20:42
stevebakerjpeeler: thanks for all your reviews20:42
ryansbjpeeler: you'll be missed20:42
shardyinc0: decouple nested isn't really about HA, it's about making deployment of large trees of stacks more scalable20:43
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asalkeldjpeeler: do you have any blueprints assigned?20:43
inc0shardy, but it breaks very long tasks into few smaller tasks - its good for both topics20:43
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skraynev20:44
shardyinc0: it was driven, initially, by the use-case of TripleO, where they want to e.g launch several ResourceGroups with hundreds of nodes in simultaneously20:44
asalkeldjpeeler: i'll take you off lazy-load-outputs - or do you want to finish that?20:44
shardyobviously it benefits anyone with that sort of scale requirement too though20:44
jpeelerasalkeld: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/lazy-load-outputs20:44
shardyinc0: the thing is, if an engine dies, decouple-nested doesn't enable any HAish recovery from that failure20:44
jpeelerasalkeld: it's possible one day i could finish it, but i'm not sure it's all that important is it?20:44
shardySo while it's clearly a step in the right direction (decouple all-the-things, moving towards fully decoupled convergence model)20:45
asalkeldi can change the milestone20:45
shardyI don't think it really warrants major announcement20:45
shardyWhat do others think?20:45
asalkeldshardy: not sure20:46
skraynevI think, that we can wait it for the next release.20:46
asalkeldnormal release notes?20:46
stevebakerits definitely release not worthy20:46
shardyMaybe we land it and document what it can and can't do in the release notes?20:46
stevebakerrelease note worthy20:46
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shardyYeah, and by then we'll know what pieces of convergence have landed so we can relate the topics if appropriate20:47
asalkeldyip20:47
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shardyinc0: thanks for bringing it up, it's definitely good to think about20:47
inc0well, my point is, it seems we have great deal of mistrust from ops side... it would be good to show people that we care about downtime20:47
asalkeldjpeeler: did you post any reviews related to that bp?20:47
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asalkeldif so can you post it into the blueprint20:48
jpeelerasalkeld: yeah, but it's pretty far from complete20:48
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jpeelerok will do20:48
asalkeldso the next person doesn't start from nothing20:48
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asalkeldjpeeler: also say something like "i started this, here is the patch. feel free to take this over"20:49
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pas-haasalkeld, this=heat :)20:51
shardyinc0: Ok, well that's useful feedback, we definitely need to keep that in mind when communicating features at release time20:51
asalkeldshardy: in decouple-nested did you get ActionInProgress in nested stack updates?20:51
asalkeldone of the last issues i have20:52
asalkeldthis is with update policy tests20:52
shardyasalkeld: Hmm, no, but I only tested fairly simple templates tbh20:52
asalkeldok20:52
asalkeldO, one notice20:53
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asalkeldApparently we have ~10 days to at least post code for reviews (for blueprints)20:54
asalkeldby then we need to have all blueprints in "needs code review"20:54
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asalkeld#link https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/kilo-320:55
skraynevwow20:55
skraynevok20:55
asalkeldi think we are doing quite well, but some convergence bp's need *some* code posted20:56
skraynevasalkeld: suppose, that the same for bugs related with convergence20:56
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asalkeldthey are bugs20:56
asalkeldbugs != blueprints20:57
skraynevoh, got it.20:57
asalkeldanything else folks?20:57
jpeelerthanks for all the nice responses earlier! (didn't want to interrupt the meeting earlier)20:57
asalkeldjpeeler: been great having you20:58
ryansbjpeeler: cheers!20:58
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asalkeldif you come back on heat we can fast track your core status20:58
skraynevjpeeler: come to us with beer ;)20:59
jpeelerah thanks for that20:59
asalkeld#endmeeting20:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:59
openstackMeeting ended Wed Feb 25 20:59:27 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2015/heat.2015-02-25-20.00.html20:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2015/heat.2015-02-25-20.00.txt20:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2015/heat.2015-02-25-20.00.log.html20:59
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