Wednesday, 2015-03-04

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Loquacities#startmeeting docteam01:03
openstackMeeting started Wed Mar  4 01:03:06 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Loquacities. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.01:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: docteam)"01:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'docteam'01:03
Loquacitieshi everyone!01:03
Loquacitieswho do we have here?01:03
suyoghi there!01:03
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Loquacitieshey suyog01:03
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Loquacitiesheya bmoss01:04
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Loquacitieshi adahms01:04
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Loquacitieshi dnavale01:05
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Loquacitiesok, i think we can call that a quorum :)01:05
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Loquacities#topic Action items from the last meeting01:05
annegentlelurking for a few :)01:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Action items from the last meeting (Meeting topic: docteam)"01:05
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Loquacitiesasettle to investigate arch guide as a project for a docs swarm01:05
Loquacitiesoh, hi annegentle :)01:05
asettleLoquacities, investigated01:05
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katcoannegentle: o/01:06
Loquacitiesok, we have the swarm as a separate agenda item, so let's address it in detail there01:06
Loquacitiesasettle to find a location for an informal meetup01:06
Loquacitiesasettle: ^^ you again ;)01:06
asettleLoquacities, annegentle has given her approval. I'm in the stage of planning a two day swarm for us. We need more structure than last time. I'll be there with a timetable ;)01:06
asettleInformal meetup can be arranged, do we have a date we'd like to look at?01:06
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Loquacitiesi don't think we had a firm date01:07
Loquacitiessometime in the next couple of weeks?01:07
asettleLet's agree on a date then01:07
asettleDo the RH'ers have meeting days that are out of the question? bmoss adahms ?01:07
Loquacitiesok, let's circle back around to that discussion01:07
adahmsWednesday is a big meeting day for us01:07
adahmsMost other days should be a bit more flexible01:08
asettleOkay, Wednesday is out. Let's look at doing a Tuesday/Thursday then.01:08
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asettleRackspace kids are away from the 16th to the 27th, how does the... 31st sound?01:08
asettleLoquacities, adahms ?01:08
Loquacitiesright before easter01:09
Loquacitiesthat could work01:09
asettleThat's the one :)01:09
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JRobinson__march 31 and April 201:09
Loquacitiesand final action item:01:09
Loquacitiesbmoss to book RH for docs sprint 13-14 august01:09
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asettle13-14th... am I back then?01:10
* asettle looks in calendar01:10
Loquacitiesok, let's get into the meat of it ...01:10
Loquacities#topic Review guidelines01:10
*** openstack changes topic to "Review guidelines (Meeting topic: docteam)"01:10
Loquacitiesoh, anne left01:10
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Loquacitiesi was going to ask her to talk about this ;)01:11
Loquacitiesso, there's been some convo on the mailing list about review guidelines01:11
Loquacitiesbasically, we need to make sure we're applying the "is it better than what we have now" rule more often01:11
asettleAs in, be less critical?01:11
Loquacitiesand not -1ing patches for minor errors, especially when it's useful content that doesn't exist yet01:11
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Loquacitiessort of01:11
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bmossand no drive-bys.  :(01:12
Loquacitiesthe proposal from nick was that we raise a low-hanging-fruit bug to address minor issues instead of -1ing the patch01:12
Loquacitiesyeah, raise bugs for drivebys01:12
bmossIt is disheartening to get knocked back for something you didn't even touch01:12
asettleDamn, I won't lie, I do love a good driveby01:12
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asettleIt's like 'oh, while you're there!'01:12
Loquacitiesalso: we wanted to talk a bit about checking out other people's patches to fix stuff01:12
Loquacitiesi've done this a bit recently with patches that have useful content, but poor writing01:13
bmossLoquacities, how do people respond to that?01:13
Loquacitiesso you need to do it nicely, of course01:13
Loquacitiesbut if the person is ESL, it's usually received well01:13
asettle"Hallo may I steals?"01:13
Loquacitiesif you're uncertain, maybe a good choice is to ask first01:13
Loquacitiesasettle: +101:13
asettle*nods* I've got this in the bag01:14
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JRobinson__adding a no score instead of -1 for the first or second patch sets takes away the sense that +1's or +2's from other reviewers are thrown out.01:14
Loquacitiesrecently, if i've noticed that i'm making more than a couple of comments on writing/grammar, it can be well received to make the edit rather than leaving 47 comments01:14
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LoquacitiesJRobinson__: good point01:14
Loquacitiesif it's non-critical comments, maybe go ahead and +1 but leave the comments in there anyway, too01:15
Loquacitiesthat way, it can still merge01:15
Loquacitiesespecially if they're only a +1 or +2 away from merging01:15
JRobinson__that's right - then there is a record for guiding future changes.01:15
Loquacitiesok, shall we move on?01:15
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asettleSounds good01:15
Loquacities#topic APAC docs meeting F2F/informal meetup01:15
*** openstack changes topic to "APAC docs meeting F2F/informal meetup (Meeting topic: docteam)"01:15
Loquacitiesso, i think we've decided on 31 march?01:16
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asettleYep,31st of March (Tuesday)01:16
asettleI'll find a place for... 10 of us?01:16
Loquacitieslunchtime thing?01:16
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adahmsSure, sounds good - I'll run the date past the RH folk here01:16
asettleYep, that should be fine. We need a cafe environment that has workable tables. At the moment I'm thinking Three MOnkeys because you can book those group tables inside.01:16
Loquacitiesoh, yeah, that could work01:17
asettleAlso easy bus ride from all directions.01:17
suyogsounds good.01:17
asettleRH'ers can even walk.01:17
Loquacitiesif it's informal, we don't need to be working01:17
Loquacitieswe can just catch up :)01:17
asettleWell, it's nice to have tables where we can all face each other and discuss :)01:17
asettle(Where I can exert my supreme powah)01:17
Loquacitiesyeah, i agree01:17
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Loquacitiesbut no need to have laptops out, i think01:17
asettleYeah, let's make it a no laptop party01:17
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Loquacitiesok, i'm going to add another action item here for you asettle, so it doesn't get lost01:17
asettleI'll send out an invite as soon as I make the booking01:18
Loquacities#action asettle to book informal Brisbane meetup for 31 March, and send out invites01:18
Loquacitiesthanks asettle01:18
adahmsasettle, I'll talk to the RH writers and let you know if we have any issues01:18
asettleTHank you :)01:18
Loquacities#topic OpenStack Docs Swarm01:18
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Docs Swarm (Meeting topic: docteam)"01:18
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asettle'ola, me again.01:19
Loquacitiesbmoss: we're booked for 13/14 august?01:19
bmossLoquacities, yep01:19
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Loquacitiesi think asettle has been working on a plan01:19
bmossI've got us Opera house from 9am to 5pm both days01:19
asettleSo far, yeah. There needs to be a greater movement in the passive voice bug before I'm certain, but I'm working on clearing that out the way so we can fully work on it01:20
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Loquacitiesbmoss: thanks!01:20
Loquacitiesasettle: sounds good :)01:20
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Loquacitiesasettle: can we possibly work on helping you out with the passive voice bug?01:20
Loquacitieswould that be helpful?01:20
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asettleYes please, any volunteers please contact me asap.01:20
bmossThe swarm website is still kicking, btw:
Loquacitiesasettle: link to the bug?01:21
Loquacitiesfor the minutes01:21
bmossWork on the passive voice can be done by me.01:21
asettleLoquacities, bugs have to be created as I go01:21
asettleOtherwise Andreas closes them on me :P01:21
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asettleBut so far I need someone to take over this one:
openstackLaunchpad bug 1402462 in openstack-manuals "Remove passive voice from chap 3, arch guide" [Medium,Confirmed] - Assigned to Alexandra Settle (alexandra-settle)01:21
asettleAnd Loquacities how are you going on your chapter 2?01:21
Loquacitiesmine's done01:21
Loquacitiesbug's closed01:22
asettleUnfortunately it isn't:
openstackLaunchpad bug 1400552 in openstack-manuals "Remove passive voice from Chap 2 Arch guide" [Wishlist,In progress] - Assigned to Lana (loquacity)01:22
Loquacitiesoh, what the?01:22
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Loquacitiesok, i'll look into that01:22
asettlePlease, let me know when that one is cleared :)01:22
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asettleIs someone able to take over chapter 3?01:22
bmossasettle, I'll grab 140246201:22
suyogI can take that.01:22
asettlesuyog, I can assign you chap 5 ?01:23
asettlebmoss, you assign yourself chap 301:23
suyogok, sounds good.01:23
bmossmy precious01:23
asettleIf anyone else is interested, ping me :)01:23
Loquacities#topic User Guides new specialty team:
*** openstack changes topic to "User Guides new specialty team: (Meeting topic: docteam)"01:23
Loquacitiesthis is more informational than anything, i'll be sending something more about that hopefully today01:23
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Loquacities(i wanted to have that done before this meeting, but omg too many meetings this morning)01:24
Loquacitiesalso, related:01:24
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Loquacities#topic Installation Guide new speciaility team01:24
*** openstack changes topic to "Installation Guide new speciaility team (Meeting topic: docteam)"01:24
Loquacitiesdamn, typo01:24
Loquacitieskarin levenstein is handling that one, and should have more info on the list shortly01:24
Loquacitiesso keep an eye out for those two, if you're interested in helping out01:24
bmossrecorded indelibly in the minutes...  tsk tsk01:24
asettlesuyog, - assign yourself :)01:24
openstackLaunchpad bug 1427935 in openstack-manuals "Remove passive voice from chap 5, arch guide" [Undecided,New]01:24
Loquacitiesi know, right?!01:24
suyogasettle, ok.01:25
Loquacities#topic Installation guide split for Kilo01:25
*** openstack changes topic to "Installation guide split for Kilo (Meeting topic: docteam)"01:25
Loquacitiesso, karin will probably go into more detail here01:25
Loquacitiesbut it looks as though we'll need to split the install guide for kilo01:25
Loquacitiesthis is mostly because RST can't handle our conditionals01:25
Loquacitiesso, consider that a heads up01:25
Loquacities#topic Doc tools update01:26
*** openstack changes topic to "Doc tools update (Meeting topic: docteam)"01:26
Loquacitieshow's everyone going with RST conversion?01:26
Loquacitiesi know darrenc has done a bunch of work01:26
Loquacitiesand matt k and i have been working on the networking guide01:26
darrencAnne has sorted out some indenting issues with numbered lists01:27
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Loquacitiesyeah, that's great01:27
Loquacitieswe're getting closer to workable semantic markup01:27
Loquacitiesand the toolchain is now more or less working properly01:27
Loquacitieswith the expection of translations01:28
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Loquacitiesok, we have two minutes left ...01:28
Loquacities#topic open discussion01:28
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: docteam)"01:28
Loquacitiesanything else you guys want to go through?01:28
dnavaleasettle, i can take one of the passive voice bugs.. let me know the bug#01:28
asettlednavale, great! I'll create a chap 6  bug for you, assign yoself01:28
asettleAfter that, we have 3 more chapters to get through01:29
dnavalesounds good01:29
asettleIf we get this passive voice issue out of the way, we don't have it as a concern for the swarm01:29
asettleOne second dnavale01:29
darrencasettle I01:29
JRobinson__There's been an update on the infra jobs processes.01:29
darrencI'll help out once I get through the end user guide migration01:29
LoquacitiesJRobinson__: oh?01:29
JRobinson__Translation checks, link checks, and syntax check conditions are now more conditional:01:30
asettleNo rush, darrenc :) thank you. These bugs are easy enough and can be done within a week (well, actually, some pages are huge, I take that back...)01:30
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JRobinson__They only run if changes happen in PO/POU files or xml files change. The mailing list has specifics01:30
asettlednavale, - go right ahead and assign ytourself please :)01:30
openstackLaunchpad bug 1427938 in openstack-manuals "Remove passive voice from chap 6, arch guide" [Undecided,New]01:30
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Loquacitiesi did notice that jenkins is passing the networking guide patch now01:30
Loquacitiesso we're getting somewhere :)01:31
dnavaleasettle: done01:31
asettleGreat! All yours :)01:31
JRobinson__that's PO/POT files^01:31
Loquacitiesok, we're at half past, so i'm calling it01:31
Loquacitiesthanks for coming, everyone :)01:31
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openstackMeeting ended Wed Mar  4 01:32:01 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)01:32
bmosscheers y'all01:32
openstackMinutes (text):
asettlebmoss, dnavale and Sukhdev - I guarantee you are going to find more issues than just the passive voice. IF you do see unnecessary content, take it upon yourself to delete it, rearrange it, etc. We will however be planning to go over the tone, audience and content with the swarm01:32
asettledamnit suyog * sorry Sukhdev01:32
bmosscool.  Thanks asettle01:32
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dnavaleasettle: ack01:32
asettleCool! Thanks for your help guys :) this'll really get us moving and shaking01:33
suyogok, asettle.01:33
suyogNo worries.01:33
* Sukhdev lol:-)01:33
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-openstackstatus- NOTICE: Zuul check queue stuck due to reboot maintenance window at one of our cloud providers - no need to recheck changes at the moment, they won't move forward.08:30
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*** ChanServ changes topic to "Zuul check queue stuck due to reboot maintenance window at one of our cloud providers - no need to recheck changes at the moment, they won't move forward."08:30
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DuncanTAre we here yet?15:59
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thingee#startmeeting cinder16:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Mar  4 16:00:00 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is thingee. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:00
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'cinder'16:00
thingeeDuncanT: yes, it's now time16:00
thingeehi everyone16:00
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thingeeThird party ci reminder16:00
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thingeeMarch 19th16:00
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thingeeyou should have a third party running way earlier than that. Expecting to have one done on March 19th is just not logical.16:01
thingeePlease see me if you're driver maintainer and have no idea what I'm talking about16:01
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thingeeCinder deadlines...16:01
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thingeemarch 10th, all blueprint code must be merged.16:02
thingeeif it's not merged by then, it's not going in.16:02
thingeeno exceptions.16:02
thingeebug fixes from there on out for Kilo16:02
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thingeeI'll be hitting the reviews hard this week, and I hope others will join me16:02
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thingeegreat job to all cinder contributors for this16:03
thingeewe're getting close!16:03
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hemnathingee, +116:03
thingeesee the priorities here
thingeeof what to review16:03
thingeeeven if you're not core, your review matters!16:03
DuncanTthingee: Did you see the discussion about the oslo logging namespace change? Ivan is going to update it on the 10th, we want to merge it last so it doesn't cause rebase conflicts for everybody else16:03
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thingeeDuncanT: there's an agenda item about this. we can talk about it then16:04
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thingeelets get started!16:04
DuncanTthingee: Actually, it's later on the agenda, ignore me for now16:04
thingee#topic Vendor driver documentation changes16:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Vendor driver documentation changes (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:04
thingeesmcginnis: hi16:04
smcginnisthingee: Hey!16:04
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smcginnisI just wanted a moment to point out some vendor driver documentation changes.16:05
smcginnisSee links above for the review and a new wiki page to be aware of.16:05
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smcginnisBasically the plan is to make vendor driver documentation smaller.16:05
smcginnisMostly config info hosted by OpenStack,16:05
smcginnisSo some vendors probably will need to work on hosting their own documentation.16:06
smcginnisIt can then be linked to from the official manuals.16:06
annegentlethanks for bringing it up smcginnis!16:06
smcginnisPlease take a moment to go to the wiki page and update your info.16:06
smcginnisannegentle: No problem!16:06
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smcginnisThat's really it. Just wanted to make sure everyone was aware of that.16:06
smcginnisannegentle: Please correct me if I've mis-stated anything.16:07
thingeeThis is excellent16:07
annegentlesmcginnis: looks good to me16:07
annegentlesmcginnis: and yes, really want to raise awareness16:07
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thingeesmcginnis: consider updating
smcginnisthingee: Good point, I'll take care of that.16:07
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kmartinannegentle, would you prefer we have one line per driver or company on the vendor driver wiki?16:08
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thingee#action smcginnis to update how to contribute cinder driver doc with info on driver doc in openstack docs16:08
thingeeso much doc16:08
annegentlekmartin: looking16:08
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smcginnisannegentle: If you could also review this section at some point that would be great:
rhe00what's the deadline for documentation changes?16:08
annegentlekmartin: I like it as one line per "configurable" driver (even if the vendor's the same)16:09
annegentlerhe00: for the Configuration Reference, the deadline is same as code,
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rhe00ok, thanks16:11
thingeethanks smcginnis and annegentle!16:11
annegentlethankee thingee!16:11
thingee#topic Following up modifying volume image metadata16:11
*** openstack changes topic to "Following up modifying volume image metadata (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:11
thingeedavechen: hi!16:11
davechenHere is some quick update for volume image metadata modification to follow up some comments from previous meeting.16:11
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davechenFirstly, remove the snapshot related changes both in the SPEC (
davechenand CLI patch (
davechenSo, only CRUD on the image metadata is proposed in the patches.16:12
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davechenSecondly, import both role based props protection ( and policies based props protection(  from Glance, and have a thorough testing recently.16:12
davechenProps protection is based on the RBAC, basically, role based props protection judge user's permission by his role and compare his roles with predefined rule configuration files;16:13
davechenpolices based props protection parse the rules defined in configuration files and appended the rules to the basic RBAC rules and then determine the user access permission.16:13
DuncanTdavechen: Any plan at some point to make this a common library with glance?16:13
davechenthese is the most important comment I get from previous meeting.16:13
davechenDuncanT: common library?16:14
davechenDuncanT: not yet16:14
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DuncanTdavechen: Ok, thanks. Just wondered16:14
thingeedavechen: I appreciate the work on this.16:14
davechenDuncanT: just did these separately, but it is good idea to do in that way.16:15
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davechenso, anything else I need address?16:15
thingeedavechen: at this time we'll have to revisit things in Liberty. We're already pretty late in the Kilo cycle with the 20 targeted things in review.16:15
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davechenthingee: yeah, so is it still possible to merge the basic CRUD APIs?16:16
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thingeedavechen: The problem is review resources. If I can keep focused on what's already on our plate, that would be great.16:16
thingeedavechen: plus the number of people that would be pissed that aren't getting in because of the feb 15 feature freeze deadline16:16
davechenthingee: just check the review list, the feature is not planed in the review list even if the low priority.16:17
thingeedavechen: and march 1st code pre feature freeze deadline16:17
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davechenthingee: okay, hope some volunteer could help to review it.16:18
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thingeedavechen: thanks16:18
thingee#topic OpenStack Infra: add non-voting Sheepdog test job to cinder check pipeline16:18
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Infra: add non-voting Sheepdog test job to cinder check pipeline (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:18
thingeekazum: hi16:18
thingeeI'm not sure why we're discussing this here. Not much we can do.16:19
eharneyi didn't understand hemna's objection on this one16:19
hemnamy objection was related to the fact that this was added w/o talking to the Cinder team16:19
hemnathey want to make it voting16:19
e0neif it is stable and non-voting, why not?16:19
DuncanTNo way is it going to be voting16:20
hemnaTheir entire intention was to make it voting16:20
thingeethe commit message says never voting16:20
eharneyi thought it was aiming for voting, which would put it in line with what we are already doing for ceph/gluster16:20
hemnaand they didn't even talk to us about it.16:20
kazumyes, we have no plan to make it voting.16:20
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eharneyso this isn't really a new scheme16:20
thingeeSo I know there was some discussion about this on the ML. I really don't care if people want to add checks in the pipe queue if infra wants to work with them.16:21
DuncanTBringing it up at the meeting is probably polite, just so there's an opportunity to shout.16:21
smcginnisOriginal commit mentioned planning to eventually vote. That was my only concern.16:21
thingeenon-voting for sure.16:21
hemnasmcginnis, +116:21
DuncanTI'd rather it didn't vote as jenkins, but it isn't the end of the world16:21
hemnayup, their original messaging was to make it voting16:21
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smcginnisAny concern with this increasing gate time?16:21
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thingeehemna: it might've just been a mistake16:21
kazumhemna: yes, sorry for confusion.16:21
hemnaso I just thought it wasn't very cool to do something like this without at least talking to the Cinder team first.16:21
thingeeand misunderstanding16:22
hemnathat's all.16:22
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DuncanTVoting as jenkins makes it look more official than the other 3rd party CIs, which I don't really like16:22
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eharneyfortunately infra is waiting for Cinder folks to give feedback on the review16:22
jordanPDuncanT, I agree with you16:22
hemnaeharney, we only found out about it because anteaya brought it up to me16:22
smcginnisWould be great if there was a separete open source third party CI.16:22
thingeewell I think the interested parties should follow up on the review. Nothing should be voting.16:22
thingeeWe've discussed this here:16:23
hemnathankfully she gave us a heads up16:23
asselin_infra is working on creating new accounts to comment as not-jenkins16:23
thingeehemna: can you follow up so infra feels comfortable again?16:23
hemnathingee, sure16:23
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thingeekazum: anything else?16:24
anteayaall I needed to see was that you knew16:24
hemnajust to be clear16:24
anteayaso now I see16:24
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anteayaand thanks16:24
DuncanTasselin_: Cool stuff16:24
hemnawe are ok with it non-voting ?16:24
kazumno, thanks a lot :)16:24
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thingeehemna: right non-voting16:24
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hemnaok cool.16:24
thingeecurrent decision still stands at
thingeeuntil rediscussion16:24
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thingeehemna, kazum: thanks16:25
thingee#topic Porting volume drivers to use ABCmeta16:25
*** openstack changes topic to "Porting volume drivers to use ABCmeta (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:25
thingeemkoderer: hi16:25
mkodererhi there :)16:25
thingeeDuncanT: hi16:25
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DuncanTmkoderer has the mike16:26
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mkodererthe driver change already got merged16:26
mkodererand I just realized that the BP was in state implemented16:26
mkodererbut in fact there is still much to do16:26
mkodererIMHO we should try to port all drivers to use the model16:26
hemnamkoderer, in K ?16:27
mkodererso I started with: rbd, gluster, nfs and block_device16:27
e0nemkoderer: +116:27
DuncanTmkoderer ++16:27
patrickeastin liberty right?16:27
thingeemkoderer: would consider breaking up the blueprint then. Have the base driver class bp marked as implemented.16:27
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mkodererI personally don't care... it's up to you guys :)16:27
DuncanTMight as well start ASAP, it is a mostly a mechanical change16:27
hemnapatrickeast, +116:27
thingeemkoderer: just in interest of time left in kilo with testing16:27
hemnaI'm a bit worried making this change this late in the game16:27
thingeehemna: +116:27
hemnaI'd vote for doing it early in L16:28
mkodererso the changes as mostly simple:,n,z16:28
tbarronhemna: +116:28
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e0nemkoderer: we can't verify it without CI16:28
mkodererok let's to it in L16:28
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tbarronchanges may be simple but soak time is needed16:28
mkoderere0ne: I see16:28
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hemnatbarron, yup16:28
e0nemkoderer: i mean 3rd party ci :(16:28
jungleboyjAgree this shoudl wait for L.16:28
kmartinmkoderer, yes but all the additional reviews for each driver change needs to be taken into account16:29
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winston-d+1 for L16:29
mkodererthingee: should I create an additional spec for that?16:29
cebrunstbarron: +116:29
thingee#agreed we wait for the rest abc driver changes in L16:29
thingeemkoderer: please16:29
mkodererthingee: k16:29
thingee#action mkoderer to break up abc driver blueprint16:29
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jungleboyjmkoderer: Is this something you are planning to do or do driver owners need to plan to make the changes?16:29
hemnamkoderer, I'd like to ping you about a driver.FibreChannelVD in #cinder and see if it makes sense to you16:30
thingee#action to adjust kilo release page accordingly with blueprints16:30
mkodererand I added a script that extracts the driver support matrix out of ABC16:30
mkodererjungleboyj: I would really like to have the help of the driver owners .. yes :)16:30
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thingeejungleboyj, mkoderer: I have plans to send a mass email to driver maintainers on some other changes in Cinder, so it would be great to send it out then as well.16:30
mkodererhemna: ok do that16:30
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jungleboyjmkoderer: Ok.  Thanks for the heads up.16:31
jungleboyjthingee: Good idea.16:31
mkodererthingee: +116:31
hemnamkoderer, we can convert our drivers, so no problem there.16:31
hemnajust in L :)16:31
DuncanTthingee: Can you cc me on any such mass emails. please? I invariably get asked on IRC about them the day after (since I'm in a GMT+X timezone) and I have to go digging16:31
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thingeeemails about new things in Kilo that drivers can do in L will be going out soon. Want to make sure folks are informed.16:31
mkodererhemna: :) ook16:31
jungleboyjmkoderer: Same here, just need to example to work from.16:31
thingeeDuncanT: sure16:32
thingeeI also send a copy to the mailing list though16:32
mkodererjungleboyj: yep I guess there are enough examples already in.. and it should be simple16:32
thingeeDuncanT: ^16:32
thingeedid te same thing with the CI email16:32
mkodererjungleboyj: like
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DuncanTthingee: That's where I go digging for it. Anything with my address CCd bypasses filters, that's all16:32
thingeeDuncanT: k16:32
jungleboyjmkoderer: Cool.  Thanks!16:32
mkodererk folks thx16:32
thingeemkoderer: thank you16:33
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thingeemkoderer: we all appreciate your work in this release with getting things going :)16:33
thingee#topic Move to oslo_log is coming!16:33
*** openstack changes topic to "Move to oslo_log is coming! (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:33
mkodererthingee: I do my very best :D16:33
thingeejungleboyj: hi16:33
e0nethingee: tha main question is: do you want to land it in Kilo?16:33
e0newhen is the best time for it? before or after FF. it requires a lot of rebases16:34
jungleboyjthangp: Hi.16:34
jungleboyjthingee: Hi.16:34
thangpjungleboyj: hi16:34
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jungleboyjthangp: Sorry, wrong th*16:34
thingeee0ne, jungleboyj: what does it buy us to rush things?16:34
jungleboyjthingee: So, I think we want to get this landed in K.  DuncanT and hemna Were feeling that way.16:35
e0nethingee: personally, i've got a lot requests from our operators for it16:35
jungleboyjthingee: Less that we need to worry about oslo.log in incubator.16:35
DuncanTthingee: It is a good time to do it, straight after code freeze - otherwise we get lots of merge conflicts in future16:35
jungleboyjjgriffith: Had requested it.16:35
thingeeDuncanT: +116:35
hemnaavoiding rebase churn would be nice.16:35
hemnaI'm trying to avoid that as well with the shadow tables review16:36
e0nehemna: +116:36
winston-de0ne: requests about what?16:36
jungleboyjSo, we would like to do it 3/10 or 3/11 to avoid disrupting the new function and get it in before we start doing a lot of fixes.16:36
tbarronDuncanT: that's compelling16:36
thingeewell technically this is bug in Kilo
jungleboyjStill get plenty of runt ime on it.16:36
e0newinston-d: moving to oslo.log to make logs of different components similar16:36
thingeeso I don't think anyone needs to convince me ;)16:36
* DuncanT is happy to +2 it very early on the 11th16:36
e0nethingee: i filled a BP for it16:36
DuncanTJust so that it doesn't stop any last minute merges on the 10th16:37
thingeee0ne: not sure why we need one16:37
jungleboyjthingee: +216:37
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thingeeanyways, I'm fine if we can get it early after the freeze to help avoid rebase hell16:37
jungleboyjthingee: +216:37
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e0nethingee: thanks! +1 for each rebase16:37
jungleboyjGreat.  Mainly I just wanted to bring it up here so people knew it was coming and there would be a brief period of rebase hell.16:37
jungleboyjIn a week.16:38
thingeejungleboyj: makes sense16:38
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thingeejungleboyj, e0ne: thanks for keeping up with the oslo changes.16:38
jungleboyjthingee: Cool!  Thank you to e0ne for is work on that!16:38
thingeejungleboyj: are we done with oslo_ changes after this?16:38
jungleboyje0ne: Thanks for keeping me honest wiht the changes.16:38
e0nejungleboy: :)16:39
* thingee thinks he asks jungleboyj this once a week16:39
jungleboyjWe are mostly done with name space changes.  I have the removal of config patch I am working on to get that out of incubator.16:39
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jungleboyjI have to get the scheduler workingt.16:39
thingeedoh ok16:39
e0nejungleboyj: cool16:39
hemnaso how much more do we want to get in then for K?16:40
jungleboyjOnce the logging change is in and the other two I will have a couple more clean-up patches.16:40
hemnathose seem like big changes16:40
jungleboyjthingee: As far as oslo_ goes.  I think we are done.  Looked a bit yesterday.16:40
hemnathe oslo updates have bit us in the rear end a few times before late in the release cycles16:40
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thingeeso maybe early L16:40
jungleboyjhemna: Right, that is why I want to get these wrapped up in the next week.16:41
jungleboyjI should be able to do so.16:41
hemnathingee, +116:41
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jungleboyjhemna: The only big change is the scheduler part.16:41
hemnayah, that one, should wait IMHO16:41
DuncanThemna might have a point... big changes at this point are high risk16:41
thingeehemna: I agree. I'm mostly not excited about oslo_log changes personally because I don't know what it's buying us to have it so late.16:41
thingeehemna: but if majority of the community is really wanting this and we can have it early after freeze, fine16:41
thingeehemna: re oslo_log16:41
jungleboyjthingee: winston-d, what do you think?16:41
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DuncanTlogging is a small change, just hits an annoying number of files16:42
hemnathingee, +116:42
jungleboyjDuncanT: +116:42
e0neDuncanT: +116:42
thingeejungleboyj: again I'm not sure why we want oslo_log right away. So I'm unlikely to agree with anything else being updated at this point.16:42
DuncanTscheduler makes me more nervous16:42
winston-djungleboyj: the normalize support in scheduler filter?16:42
hemnayah the log patch is fairly limited.  as long as oslo_log isn't broken itself, it should be ok.16:42
jungleboyjwinston-d: Yes.16:42
thingee8 days + whatever RC time for gate testing. I think we need to be careful at this point16:42
hemnathingee, +2!!16:42
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winston-djungleboyj: don't we have a dependenecy in olso-incubator?16:43
jungleboyjwinston-d: There is a fix I would need to get in there.16:43
winston-djungleboyj: to add support for 'infinite' in normalize()16:43
jungleboyjwinston-d: Right.  I am ok with waiting on that if that is ok with you.16:43
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thingeedoes anyone disagree on waiting for things besides oslo_log?16:43
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thingeein Kilo16:44
jungleboyjthingee:  Let me make the following proposal:16:44
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jungleboyj1) Get oslo_log change in for Kilo.16:44
winston-djungleboyj: please wait for a proper fix to accommadate 'infinite'16:44
jungleboyj2) Hold off on scheduler change for Liberty.16:44
e0nejust fyi, oslo feature freaze is on March, 12th16:45
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jungleboyj3) I move to the new config engine this week as it lets us get other cleanup in incubator done.16:45
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jungleboyjRemove files that we don't need to be carrying along.16:45
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jungleboyjThose will just be removing files we already have stopped using.16:45
jungleboyjThen I will be done with Oslo.16:46
thingee1 and 2 seem fine. Need to see what 3 looks like16:46
DuncanTConfig engine change makes me a little nervous, but gate should test it fairly well16:46
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jungleboyjDuncanT: +1  It shouldn't be a huge deal.16:46
jungleboyjI will get it coded up and see what you guys think.16:46
DuncanTNeed to follow up on any 3rd party failures though, since they are testing more of the config code than jenkins16:46
e0nejungleboyj: will it impact any package mainteiners?16:46
jungleboyje0ne:  Not if I write it properly.  :-)16:47
e0nejungleboyj: fair enough :)16:47
thingeejungleboyj: anything else? we have a couple more things on the agenda16:47
jungleboyje0ne: DuncanT thingee I will stop work on the scheduler and move to the config work so you have something to see yet this wek.16:47
jungleboyjWe can revisit next week.16:47
thingeejungleboyj: ok16:47
thingee#topic Replication follow up from last meeting16:48
*** openstack changes topic to "Replication follow up from last meeting (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:48
jungleboyjthingee: Thanks for the discussion and input!16:48
thingeejungleboyj: hi16:48
jungleboyjthingee: He.16:48
jungleboyj:-)  *sigh*16:48
jungleboyjI can't type today.16:48
thingeejungleboyj: I'm going to do a hard cut on this in 6 mins. need to leave time for jbernard16:48
jungleboyjAnyway, so I just wanted to follow up.16:48
jungleboyjWe took the discussion last week about GPFS and Storwize to heart.16:48
jungleboyjSo, this is a quick discusion.16:49
jungleboyjWe are not going to try to get any more replication changes in for this release and we are going to focus efforts on helping get V2 on track for Liberty.16:49
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thingeejungleboyj: +116:49
jungleboyjYou all are right that that makes more sense than trying to get more changes in now.16:49
jungleboyjHope that we can be of better benefit to everyone by focusing our efforts that way.16:50
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jungleboyjThat was all I had on that.16:50
thingeeI'll be providing more input on the replication stuff soon. Just in constant review mode :)16:50
thingeefor kilo16:50
jungleboyjthingee: Same here.16:50
thingeejungleboyj: thanks16:51
jungleboyjWe are continuing to look at the bugs out there.16:51
DuncanT9 minute warning16:51
thingeejungleboyj: I've been watching, thanks :)16:51
thingee#topic Generic volume migration consensus16:51
*** openstack changes topic to "Generic volume migration consensus (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:51
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thingeejbernard: hi16:51
jbernardhey guys16:51
thingeejgriffith: here?16:51
jungleboyjthingee: Welcome.16:51
jbernardmy volume migraiton patch is availalbe for review
thingeeI've pinged jgriffith number of times to relook at this16:51
jbernardwinston has provided some great feedback16:52
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jbernardand we've iterated a few times16:52
jbernardim left with two questions:16:52
jbernard 1. Do we agree that the patch in it's current form is not good enough to merge16:52
jbernard2. If winston's suggested approach is implemented, is that what we want16:52
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jbernardand i guess also16:53
jbernard 3. we need CI for this, where does that fit in16:53
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jbernardthe patch as it is, adds support for rbd migration wihtout introducing regressions for previous drivers16:54
jbernardbut the encapsulation is not awesome16:54
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jbernardand in general, im looking for some agreement so i don't go off in a wrong direction16:54
* DuncanT would like to look at LVM + 3rd party driver for 3rd party CI in L. Probably not required initially, but it would allow at least some migration testing16:54
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jbernardalso, we can revisit next week, i dont need an answer right now16:55
jbernardit may take time to digest it all16:55
jbernardbut i wanted to bring it up16:55
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* DuncanT didn't like the overloaded attach that doesn't attach, for the record16:55
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jbernardDuncanT: in the alternative? or as it is currently?16:56
DuncanTBut I couldn't come up with anything better... am trying to make sense of winston's proposal now16:56
jbernardme too, this morning has been busy16:56
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winston-dI hope avishay can sponse the review this generic vol migration patch.16:57
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thingeeok, I don't have much input on this. Honestly haven't been following, so looking to others to chime in16:57
winston-dhe's the original author of migration.16:57
thingee3 mins16:57
winston-dtime for opens?16:58
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winston-dI have one16:58
thingeejbernard: thanks and sorry for the lack of discussion16:58
thingee#topic open discussion16:58
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:58
bswartzNext week cinder meeting is Noon Eastern/9AM Pacific thanks to DST in the USA16:58
jbernardno worries, if anyone does have time to look, i would be grateful16:58
thingeebswartz: +116:59
thingeethanks for the reminder16:59
DuncanTStill the same time UTC, right?16:59
thingeemake sure to send your summit session proposals here!
bswartzyeah UTC time never changes16:59
jungleboyjbswartz: +1  Thank you!16:59
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hemna1 minute16:59
openstackLaunchpad bug 1406703 in Cinder "Deleting VM with an attached volume during copy-volume-to-image causes the volume remains in-use state" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Abhijeet Malawade (abhijeet-malawade)17:00
*** openstack changes topic to "Zuul check queue stuck due to reboot maintenance window at one of our cloud providers - no need to recheck changes at the moment, they won't move forward."17:00
openstackMeeting ended Wed Mar  4 17:00:10 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:00
openstackMinutes (text):
tjones1#startmeeting vmwareapi17:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Mar  4 17:00:21 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is tjones1. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)"17:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'vmwareapi'17:00
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tjones1hi folks17:00
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* thangp waves17:00
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tjones1*waves back* :-)17:01
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NarenNarendraHi Cinder team! I am working with the OpenStack Product WorkGroup. We had a Kilo midcycle meetup back in January. One of the immediate tasks that we have picked is to speak with each of the project teams/PTLs on data gathering17:01
tjones1hi - sorry you missed the cinder meeting.  It is at 8amPST.  this is the vmwreapi meeting17:01
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NarenNarendraDo any of the Cinder folks have a few mins to chat here or 1-1 regarding these questions:17:01
bswartzNarenNarendra: you're in the wrong meeting, go to #openstack-cinder for help17:01
thangpNarenNarendra: go to #openstack-cinder17:01
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tjones1ok anyone besides thangp here for vmwareapi?17:02
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tjones1oh well - it's going to be a quick one :-)17:02
NarenNarendra    1. What are you delivering for Kilo?17:02
NarenNarendra    2. What do you plan on delivering for Liberty cycle? (we understand confidence is lower with time).17:02
NarenNarendra    3. What do you plan on delivering for M cycle? (we understand confidence is lower with time).17:03
NarenNarendra    4. How can the product WG help?17:03
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tjones1NarenNarendra: you are in the wrong meeting17:03
thangptjones1: i guess it would be quick :)17:03
garyki am here (i think)17:03
thangptjones1: just had a question on when standard vswitch will be supported in neutron17:03
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tjones1garyk: do you know?17:04
thangptjones1: not sure I see anything proposed for it17:04
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tjones1thangp: i have not heard anything around that17:04
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tjones1i can ask17:04
thangptjones1: np, just worried some of the basic stuff we have will no longer work once nova-network is deprecated17:05
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tjones1yeah good point17:05
tjones1i'll get back to you (maybe during this meeting)17:05
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thangptjones1: ok thx17:05
tjones1#topic bugs for kilo17:05
*** openstack changes topic to "bugs for kilo (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)"17:05
garykthangp: for neutron in the vmware_nsx repo we have a patch for simple dvs support with neutron17:05
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garykthis has limitations17:05
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openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x9480b90>17:06
thangpgaryk: ok, do you have a link for the repo?17:06
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thangpgaryk: thx17:07
tjones1ok lets quickly go over the kilo bugs17:07
tjones1#topic bugs for kilo17:07
*** openstack changes topic to "bugs for kilo (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)"17:08
thangptjones1: so garyk wanted a bp for it17:08
tjones1yes i see that17:08
thangpdoes the bp require a nova-spec?17:09
thangpthe spec would be quite small17:09
thangpis just a bp ok?17:09
thangpswap disk is by itself a small patch17:09
thangpminus the tests17:09
tjones1im looking at the change now17:10
tjones1a bp would miss kilo for sure17:10
thangpif it requires a nova-spec, it's not going to make it until liberty17:10
tjones1im even confused when a bp needs a spec and when it just can be a bp…..17:11
thangp:) too much paperwork17:11
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tjones1i think it needs a spec if it is a large change - this is adding a feature (feature parity really).  so perhaps just a bp17:11
tjones1agreed on the paperwork :-(17:12
thangptjones1: ok...we'll find out once a core reviews it17:12
thangpi just don't think a nova-spec is required until necessary17:12
tjones1we need a minesweeper run for sure17:12
tjones1can you recheck minwseeper?17:12
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thangpsure, will do it now17:12
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tjones1next one is your too #link
tjones1looks like this is ready for core17:13
thangptjones1: yeah...i'll try to ping someone on #openstack-nova after this mtg about it17:13
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tjones1yeah it has plently of +1 and minesweeper too17:14
tjones1next is #link
tjones1mdbooth: you here?17:14
mdboothtjones1: Sorta17:14
tjones1want to update us on your patch ^^?17:14
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mdboothtjones1: I have little confidence of it landing. It has irritated dansmith, which is something of a poison pill for any patch.17:15
-openstackstatus- NOTICE: Issue solved, gate slowly digesting accumulated changes17:15
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thangpmdbooth: lol17:16
thangpmdbooth: that is unfortunate17:16
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mdboothThere is no substantive objection to the contents of the patch that I'm aware of17:16
mdboothHowever, that doesn't seem to be terribly important17:17
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tjones1not sure what to say17:18
tjones1ok well lets move on17:18
tjones1#topic meeting times17:18
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tjones1so next week the US has daylight savings time.  so this meeting will move up 1 hour for those of you in the US.17:18
tjones1garyk: what time is your meeting going to be?  can't recall17:19
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garyktjones1: tbd. i will send a mail to the list17:20
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tjones1next week gary is going to chair the meeting starting at ?? and then the next week i will chair at 1700 UTC etc.  so we will cycle times like other meetings do17:20
tjones1also we are going to open it up to glance, neutron, cinder, etc.  anyone who has an interest in the vmware driver.  not just nova17:21
tjones1make sense?17:21
thangpsounds good to me17:21
tjones1ok so that is all i had.17:21
tjones1anything else?17:21
garyknot on my side17:22
thangpme either17:22
tjones1ok short meeting17:22
tjones1thanks guys!17:22
tjones1see you later17:22
thangphave a good week17:22
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*** openstack changes topic to "Zuul check queue stuck due to reboot maintenance window at one of our cloud providers - no need to recheck changes at the moment, they won't move forward."17:22
openstackMeeting ended Wed Mar  4 17:22:30 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:22
openstackMinutes (text):
tjones1you too thangp17:22
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notmynameswift meeting time19:00
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notmyname#startmeeting swift19:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Mar  4 19:00:42 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)"19:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'swift'19:00
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notmynamehello, who's here for the swift meeting?19:01
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* notmyname gives people a moment to join19:02
notmynameagenda is there19:02
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notmynamethe goal of this meeting to to review the EC status and make a call on our commitment to an EC beta in kilo19:03
notmynamealso, I've got a hard stop in 27 minutes :-)19:03
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zaitcevI cannot answer the final question, sorry. Ask Paul/Sam/Clay, decide yes/no, done! Should be free way before the hard stop.19:05
notmynameit's for all of us :-)19:05
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zaitcevI should look how intrusive EC is and perhaps it's not bad wrt regressions19:05
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notmynameacoles: hello19:05
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zaitcevIf it is, the sooner we pull it, the better19:06
notmynameI have been talking to them, nearly every day. /me is trying to to be annoyed that they aren't here19:06
notmyname*not to be19:06
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tdasilvapeluse mentioned something last night about traveling to Boston today19:06
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notmynameah, right19:07
tdasilvanot sure if that was after the meeting19:07
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notmynameand peluse just sent me a text message. wifi not working at the airport19:07
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notmynameok, let's get started19:07
notmyname#topic ec status19:07
*** openstack changes topic to "ec status (Meeting topic: swift)"19:07
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notmynamehere's where we are, as I know it19:08
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notmynamethe swift part of the code is going well19:08
peluse_ok, I'm here19:08
notmynamebasice GET and PUT functionality has landed19:08
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mattoliveraupeluse_: found some internets19:08
notmynamepeluse_: yay19:08
peluse_found curt's PC :)19:08
notmynamethere will need to be some refactoring work on the read/write path, but that may not make it into a beta19:09
peluse_so yeah the big review is the multiple fragment index one, thats important and needs to be next focus19:09
notmynamethere is some additional functionality that is being worked on19:09
notmynameeg torgomatic is working on ranged gets and cleaning up some of the put path19:09
peluse_agree on read/writre refactoring.  we may want some tweaks before beta but beyond that and bug fix should be OK19:09
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acolespeluse_: you mean ?19:09
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peluse_not on my laptop so don't want to click away and get lost but the one you are working on with me, yes :)19:10
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acolespeluse_: sure, thats the one then :)19:10
notmynameclayg is looking at some of the bckground daemon processes. eg container-sync and the account-reaper have to be refactored to account for using internal proxy instead of direct calls19:10
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peluse_and the reconstructor will be back up and running this weekend.  unfortunately I'm out of office til Sun19:11
notmynamethere will likely be somewhat of a mad dash at the end to get the background daemon jobs working19:11
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notmynameok. so the reconstructor is what peluse_ is working on19:11
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notmynamepeluse_: that's been split apart, right?19:11
peluse_notmyname: great news on the rework of the daemons, glad clayg is on it19:11
notmynamethe multipl fragment index one (that acoles linked)19:11
notmynameacoles: you're working with peluse_ on that?19:12
acolesyes and i can spend more time on it19:12
acoleshad some comments from mattoliverau and clayg to follow up on19:12
notmynametdasilva: I know you've been jumping in too. where are you looking right now?19:12
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notmynameah, good. thanks19:13
tdasilvanotmyname: container update of etag and size19:13
acolesbut clayg let a comment in #openstack-swift about wanting to refactor into per-policy diskfiles, so i'm not sure whether to proceed or if he is going to do a big re-write19:13
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* notmyname stars that patch19:13
notmynameacoles: ok19:13
peluse_so we should talk more about policy diskfiles... make sure implications are clear to everyone19:13
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peluse_including me :)19:14
notmynameI think clayg is looking at the b/g stuff first. but yes. I definitely want to understand that part19:14
peluse_cool, maybe Mon we can talk19:14
notmynameok, what else is ongoing in ec-landia? mattoliverau? kota_? you've both been reviewing and writing code in there19:15
notmynamezaitcev: are you looking at any ec stuff right now?19:15
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zaitcevnotmyname: not this moment, no19:15
mattoliverauI've been reviewing and testing19:15
acolespeluse_: notmyname : so should i hold off on multi frag patch until you've discussed per-policy diskfile?19:16
peluse_zaitcev: if you have time to look at the multi FI patch (if someone can paste link) that would be rgeat.  its diskfile guts changes19:16
kota_on Swift part, I'm not working, right now, but will start to review19:16
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* acoles doesnt wantto waste effort 19:16
notmynamekota_: thanks19:16
kota_on PyECLib part, almost done my work to add NTT plugin.19:16
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notmynamekota_: right. you've been working on pyeclib. good (/me will come back to that is just a moment)19:16
acolesmulti FI ==
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notmynamepeluse_: what do you think of acoles's question? per-policy diskfile discussion first or after?19:17
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peluse_sorry before or afer what?19:18
acolesbefore or after i do any more work on it :D19:18
peluse_OK, I see it now.  I think we press forward19:18
peluse_until we change our minds :)19:18
notmynamepeluse_: thanks for splitting up some of the reconciler stuff19:19
mattoliveraulol, just what acoles wants to hear19:19
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notmynameit's a big piece, and the longer it stays there, the more worried I am about it19:19
peluse_so seriously though, yeah I think we should keep with the current direction until we have good reaons to change and all agree19:19
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acolesmattoliverau: right!19:19
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acolesfwiw i was finding ways to hide policy specific stuff in the policy classes19:19
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acolesand i think there is more scope19:19
notmynameok, last question about the swift code: has anyone been looking specifically at tests for ec?19:19
acolesits whether that is sufficient or we flip to multiple diskfile classes19:20
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peluse_acoles: yup, agree.  little things like that can make full per policy diskfile less interesting19:20
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acolespeluse_: ok i will press on with a philosophical attitude to the lifespan of anything i type :)19:21
notmynametdasilva: I moved your task on trello into "doing"19:21
tdasilvanotmyname: cool, thanks!19:21
notmynameok, last moving piece is pyeclib19:21
acoleszaitcev: mattoliverau : ^^ i will spin another version of tomorrow fyi19:21
* tdasilva needs to check trello more often19:21
* notmyname assumes nobody is yet looking specifically at test updates19:22
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notmynameI talked to tsg about pyeclib this morning19:22
notmynamehe's tracking down some dependency issues in ubuntu to get 1.0 available19:22
mattoliverauacoles: cool19:22
notmyname1.0 removes the "remote calls during install" issue19:22
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notmynameand basically will be needed for any packaging and a lot of testing19:22
notmynamefeature freeze for openstack kilo is in 2 weeks, so that's the deadline for getting that sorted out19:23
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notmynameso, all that being said....19:23
notmynamelooking at dates19:23
notmynamemar 27 is 4.5 weeks from today19:23
notmynamethat gives us 2 weeks for a merge-to-master19:24
notmynamefor an RC on april 1019:24
peluse_cool... i think19:24
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notmynamecan we commit to an ec beta (most features, but not "certified prod ready") in that timeframe?19:24
peluse_thanks acoles for the huge help on the fi patch!19:25
tdasilvanotmyname: sorry, little confused. you said "feature freeze for openstack kilo is in 2 weeks"19:25
notmynametdasilva: sorry, dependency freeze19:25
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tdasilvanotmyname: got it, thx19:25
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notmyname#startvote Do we commit to an EC beta in Kilo? yes, no, delay19:27
openstackBegin voting on: Do we commit to an EC beta in Kilo? Valid vote options are yes, no, delay.19:27
openstackVote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.19:27
notmynamefor delay, I mean, make that choice later19:27
acolesnotmyname: you asked for commitment and it all went quiet ;)19:27
notmynameyes to commit to kilo19:27
notmynameno to have ec after kilo19:27
peluse_#vote yes19:27
notmynameacoles: I see that19:27
mattoliveraunotmyname: now that is the question :) so long as its "beta" i say yes. i've been impressed in testingbasic put/pull. nice work everyone19:27
mattoliverau#vote yes19:27
notmynameit will definitely only be a beta19:27
notmynamebut if we commit to it, then we will cut scope to have something in kilo before we drop ec from kilo19:28
clayg#vote yes19:28
peluse_and i think thats good   we need real feedback on perf and usage even if were 100%done19:28
notmynameI've been impressed with the momentum over the last two weeks and so I19:28
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notmyname#vote yes19:28
claygto having the current best ec implementation we can muster up for a review to merge to master two weeks before the first RC get's cut19:28
zaitcev#vote yes19:28
notmynameclayg: yes, that19:28
kota_#vote yes19:28
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lpabon#vote yes19:29
* lpabon if my vote counts for anything :-)19:29
notmynameacoles: cschwede: tdasilva ?19:29
acolesi'm trusting clayg peluse_ and other opinions, haven;t looked at state of tests19:29
acoles#vote yes19:29
notmynamelpabon: you just volunteered to do reviews! ;-)19:29
tdasilva#vote yes19:29
tdasilvai think we can do it19:29
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claygacoles: we desperately need to start working on tests - but there's still functionality we know is missing :'(19:29
openstackVoted on "Do we commit to an EC beta in Kilo?" Results are19:30
openstackyes (9): notmyname, acoles, tdasilva, kota_, mattoliverau, lpabon, peluse_, clayg, zaitcev19:30
notmynameno one opposed. that's great!19:30
tdasilvawhat was the diff between no and delay anyway?19:30
notmynamedelay = choose later19:30
tdasilvaoh, delay the vote19:30
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acolestdasilva: delay always appeal to me when faced with a decision ;)19:31
notmynameok, I've got to run now. I'll be back in #openstack-swift in a while19:31
tdasilvaacoles: understand you completely19:31
notmynamenow the scary part starts with poepl outside of the devs start to get involved and plan around our commitment19:31
notmynamethank you for coming and discussing. thanks for working on swift19:32
*** openstack changes topic to "Zuul check queue stuck due to reboot maintenance window at one of our cloud providers - no need to recheck changes at the moment, they won't move forward."19:32
openstackMeeting ended Wed Mar  4 19:32:15 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)19:32
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claygacoles: ++19:32
tdasilvanotmyname: thanks!19:32
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tdasilvapeluse: peluse_ have a good trip19:32
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Arkady_KanevskyProduct WG meeting today?21:41
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sarobhello product team22:58
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sarob#startmeeting product-team23:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Mar  4 23:00:05 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is sarob. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.23:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: product-team)"23:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'product_team'23:00
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sarobroll call23:00
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rolandchanRoland Chan, Aptira23:00
NarenNarendraNaren Narendra23:01
sarobmorning rolandchan23:01
NarenNarendrahey guys23:01
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sarobello ello23:02
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sarobcarol, shamail?23:02
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sarobimad, russellb, anyone else23:02
barrettCarol's here23:02
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sarobfirst up23:03
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sarobwe held a f2f openstack board meeting yesterday23:04
sarobour work was much discussed23:04
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sarobour group will be folded in as a working group under the user committee23:05
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sarobeveryone was very postivie23:05
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barrettwhat does that mean? folded under the user committee?23:05
saroband the tc members present very supportive23:05
sarobhey barrett23:05
sarobthe board wants to show support23:05
sarobwithout setting the direction23:06
NarenNarendragreat sign..23:06
mscohenare there other WG under the user committee?23:06
sarobi answered a lot of questions about what and why23:06
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sarobtelco, WTE, application ecosystem, api, log rationalization, etc23:07
mscohenok, so then i guess is good :)23:08
sarobthese are the horizontial teams23:08
sarobmscohen: very good feedback23:08
saroband this will give us a more visability23:08
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saroba ran a breakout group on this23:10
sarobwith imad, eileen evans, robert esker, and  Mark McLoughlin23:10
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barrettWhat was the proposal from the breakout?23:11
sarobthey want us to target the tokyo summit23:11
sarobto go public23:11
sarobwith a multi-release roadmap23:11
ShamailHi all, that's good news23:12
sarobi told the breakout group in detail about what we are working on23:12
sarobthey liked it all23:12
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sarobMark McLoughlin, monty taylor, and russel brant were positive23:12
NarenNarendrain the meanwhile, the f/b that we are getting from PTLs is how to co-ordinate cross project comm and secondly, they want help to identify what customers are using and interested to use (features) in each of the project.... how do we tackle that23:12
sarobgood sign for us working with the TC23:13
sarobi may lose you all in about 10-15 minutes23:13
saroblanding soon23:13
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sarobso lets run through the first part of the agenda23:14
sarobthen you guys can do updates when i drop off23:14
ShamailI don't think we are ready for cross project comm... It is definitely a need for us to be successful.23:14
ShamailSounds good sarob23:14
sarob#topic operators midcycle23:15
*** openstack changes topic to "operators midcycle (Meeting topic: product-team)"23:15
sarobid like to only present what data we have gathered23:15
saroband make a request for the missing data23:15
sarobi dont want to jump the gun23:16
barrettGathered from whom? PTLs?23:16
sarobbarrett right23:16
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sarobwe should present our plans to the TC next23:16
dttocsFor the data from the PTLs, I'm not convinced we should present that - I'd rather share back with PTLs first.23:16
barrettOK - I've taken the info in the etherpad and created a draft roadmap23:16
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NarenNarendraprovides a way for us to nudge the other PTLs to spend some time with us23:16
sarobi dont want the TC to think we doing an end run with the operators23:16
mscohenwe actually got feedback from most PTLs I think23:17
barrettAgree we need to share with TC - can we do that via email?23:17
sarobgathering data and socializing is working23:17
saroblets play that out23:17
barrettWe're still missing several projects23:17
sarobbarrett right23:17
dttocsGiven we're missing Nova, Cinder, Horizon23:17
NarenNarendraFYI - i am getting from cinder hopefully by end of next week23:18
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dttocsas key projects23:18
barrettI took the info from the etherpad and worked with Kenny and Shamail to create a draft roadmap and sent the link to the mail list23:18
NarenNarendra*getting data23:18
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dttocspresenting to Operators early next week feels like an end-run to me.23:18
RockygThierry will be at midcycle ops meetup.  We can pitch to him....23:18
sarob#action barrett, sarob present data gathered highlights, request missing data at operator midcycle23:18
sarobrockyg good idea23:18
ShamailWho is attending from this team?23:18
NarenNarendraWith Kilo deadline of March 5th, we should expect more responsiveness from the PTLs next week23:18
RockygI am.  Or at least trying to.23:18
barrettI am...also wondering if the weather will be an issue23:19
NarenNarendrai am attending23:19
sarobthe agenda is very full, so we may need to do the thing one on one23:19
sarobor in breakout group23:19
sarobnevertheless, its an opportunity23:20
barrettsarob agree23:20
sarobmoving on23:20
sarobcause im going downnnn23:20
sarob#topic integration timeline23:20
*** openstack changes topic to "integration timeline (Meeting topic: product-team)"23:20
ShamailWe should pitch to ttx but line up to be on agenda for a future TC meeting23:20
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sarobshamail agreed23:20
ShamailI'm sure the dialog will be interactive23:20
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sarobso i started to rough out an implementation plan for this group23:21
sarobwith tokyo nov2015 as our target23:21
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sarobTC present before vancouver23:21
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sarobthen we can add in more milestones23:22
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sarobsound like a plan to come up with the plan?23:22
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barrettsarob agree23:23
ShamailNeed to agree on process/workflow as well23:23
ShamailYou have my feedback and I agree with your responses.  Some of my comment are still open in doc23:23
mscohenworks for me.  just need owners...23:23
ShamailWe can make plans on mailing list23:23
saroblets keep our subteams plugging away23:23
sarobshamail: def socialize our plan of plan on the product ML23:24
ShamailSo meta23:24
* sarob hearty laugh23:24
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sarobif i can jump to roadmap since i will be offline soon23:25
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sarob#topic roadmap process update23:25
*** openstack changes topic to "roadmap process update (Meeting topic: product-team)"23:25
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sarobi threw this together last week23:26
sarobrough start23:26
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dttocsLooks like a good start23:27
sarobreuses some ideas from defcore23:27
ShamailOops, I remarked too soon.  My comment about the doc was related to this.23:27
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sarobthe basic idea is we use gerrit for technical community review each step of the process23:28
sarobwe tie our milestones to the release milestones23:28
ShamailDefCore needs to be acknowledged but probably out of band to our work for now.  I also want to make sure we get use-cases from other groups (beyond WTE) as well23:28
sarobwe only use the same tools as the PTLs23:28
sarobshamail def23:29
ShamailSarob: +123:29
* Shamail apologizes for timing being off... I'm on a phone client.23:29
sarobi want our companies to start feeding our product user stories into WTE23:29
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ShamailBut what about Telco, API, etc?23:29
sarobi am working this team process into vmware23:29
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barrettTelco WG is good place for Telco User Stories23:30
ShamailI know OPNFV is trying to enable their liason to OpenStack23:30
sarobof course23:30
RockygTelco is already gathering user stories23:30
barrettSeems like we might want to foster the start of other WGs: HPC, CSP..?23:30
Shamailbarrett: I agree, I just want to make sure they know we exist as well23:30
sarobi meant to say other user committee working groups will feed product team23:30
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sarob user stories through patching to gerrit23:30
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Shamailbarrett: +1 on asking others to build too23:31
sarobvoting will be public23:31
barrettvoting on what?23:31
ShamailWould announce ML make sense or the community newsletter?23:31
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sarobbarrett on each step in the roadmap process23:31
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sarobjust like any other openstack project23:31
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Shamailsarob: +1 but where would they land?  Cross project repo?23:32
barrettsarob: not quite seeing how that will work, but am sure it will become clear as we move forward23:32
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ShamailI wonder if his wifi got shut down23:34
ShamailHe said he was about to land23:34
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barrettThink so23:34
RockygDo we need more on this topic?23:35
rolandchanI think we have enough for now. There's a doc to provide feedback if needed.23:35
RockygIf not, we should go to the updates23:35
barrettAs part of the overall plan, we need to address gathering user stories and identifying gaps23:35
ShamailI agree with the concept though (let's see how it works) because working on our process, information collection, etc.  needs to be done using the same methods as other projects and needs to be accessible to all.23:35
RockygAnd queue the topic change23:35
Rockyg#topic update socialize and gather data group23:36
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ShamailThanks Rockyg23:36
mscohenso it looks like we want to present something at the operator summit?23:36
mscohenon socialization23:36
RockygYeah.  it won't turn out as a topic, but it will let readers know.23:36
mscoheni won’t be there but anyone from the group can do it.23:36
RockygWe should at least let the Ops know that we exist and what we are working on and towards23:37
mscoheni agree23:37
mscohenwe could show what we have as WIP.23:37
barrettAlso think we should ask them for use cases and give them a place and format23:37
Rockyg++ on use cases23:37
RockygWe should have a place they can propose them.23:38
ShamailI think the plan would be to show what've we've collected so far and ask for others to respond to help us finish collection.23:38
barretthere's some slides that could be a starting point for what we'd share...
mscoheni also made a spreadsheet of it about a week back
ShamailRockyg: +1 goes hand in hand w/ other topic23:38
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barrettmscohen - nice!23:39
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RockygSpreadsheet might be the right way to present at the moment.23:39
mscohenlet me update it again.  i think some new data came in23:39
ShamailOps summit is show current feedback from PTLs, ask others to help, and show where use cases can be submitted?23:39
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RockygIt shows data collected but makes no judgements/presents no opinions yet23:39
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mscohenthere are a few things you can show…like data for M is very thin23:40
RockygSo, we need to determine how to collect use cases by Monday, then.23:40
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ShamailI think that's probably a stretch goal Rockyg23:40
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ShamailSharing current feedback would be P023:40
Rockygshamail: agree;-)23:40
barrettIs the call to action for the Operators: Provide Use cases to shape M?23:40
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mscohenwe could do something else simple like create a google form for operators to input use cases.  Get someone to pop it up in front of everyone in one of the sessions23:41
RockygAnd maybe adjust priorities on L?23:41
Shamail+ use-cases for "verticals" to respective group (WTE, Telco, etc)23:41
rolandchan+1 for semi-structured data.23:41
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rolandchanand the google form.23:41
barrett+1 on structure and form23:42
ShamailI think we shouldn't ask ops for that yet Rockyg.  It might be seen as going to end run again.23:42
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RockygAnd a good example use case or two?23:42
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ShamailWe should just ask for submissions, prioritization can't be done until we have spoke with TC.23:42
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barrettShamail: If we ask for Use cases and their view on gaps, I think we're OK. We have this dialog periodically with Operators (like San Antonio in August)23:43
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ShamailMy guess would be they (and PTLs) will own prioritization initially (IMHO only)23:43
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RockygWell, we could report back what the ops think are fires....23:43
RockygAs part of the preso to them.23:43
ShamailAgreed Barrett.  I was referring to prioritization23:43
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ShamailWe just have to be careful to make sure people understand we are collecting feedback (including importance) but not actually taking action on that data yet23:44
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barrettShamail: Agree23:44
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RockygSo, socialize and gather data active at meetup.  Provide info on what we are doing and gather hot topics from Ops23:44
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ShamailRockyg: +1 AND CORNER TTX23:45
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RockygAye, aye!23:45
barrettFrom reading the PTL answers to "what can Product WG do to help" seems like providing feedback and helping to prioritize is what some want23:45
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ShamailAgreed, but we want TC to weigh in first before we help with that23:45
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barrettSo can we use the info from the Operators next week, along with the form that we come up with to capture it, in the conversation with the TC?23:46
RockygJust an FYI, I think TC would *love* if we could provide some data on gap analysis23:46
ShamailWe can help, for now, by collecting importance from ops, our companies, and customers23:46
Rockygnot immediately, but work with them to see what they need.23:47
ShamailI would think so and agree rockyg23:47
RockygShamail:  ++23:47
ShamailBy the way, NarenNarendra mentioned cinder by end of week23:48
RockygEnough on S&G?  Next up wourd be roadmap process update23:48
barrettDo we have a volunteer to draft the feedback form?23:48
ShamailAny updates on other missing ones?  Can anyone from the team help?23:48
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dttocsI'm still working on Ironic - hopefully soon.23:48
mscohenif naren has trouble with cinder, i can def help there23:48
ShamailSorry again, phone is delayed :(23:49
RockygIf we don't get the form before, those of us at the meetup can throw something together there....23:49
barrettWhat about Nova input?23:49
mscohennova is a big gap.  Steve had said he’d do that it looks like23:49
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RockygThat's Mikal Still, John Garbutt, Joe Gordon.  We'll need to clear what we get from last two with Mikal23:50
dttocsAlso for Infra and Release cycle, I don't think Stefano asked the "what are your current priorities" questions.  If no one else has done so I'll follow up with him.23:50
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ShamailWe shouls put some milestone around collection so we know when to start asking for help.23:50
ShamailI'm sorry everyone.  I have to drop off as well.  I have to start driving.23:51
Rockyg#topic update product roadmap process23:52
RockygDo we have anything on that?23:52
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ShamailGood luck at the ops summit!!!  I will see you next time.23:52
RockygWe've got spreadsheet:23:52
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RockygWe've got spreadsheet:#link
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rolandchansarob put up a doc earlier for comment.23:53
Rockygand first draft preso:23:53
Rockygand the process doc from sarob:23:54
RockygSo, got that rolandchan....23:55
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RockygIf we just want to note those docs, that could be enough for the update and we could move to open discussion for 4 minutes23:56
barrettSounds good23:56
Rockyg#topic open discussion23:56
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barrettI think it would be valuable to create a timeline for deliverables to guide our actions23:57
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barrettdon't see that in the doc that sarob started23:57
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rolandchanThere's a small timeline on the wiki page.23:58
rolandchanI think we have a plan to flesh out the plan.23:58
Rockygrolandchan:  ++23:59
barrettDo you think we should try to setup a F2F session on some of this to move it forward?23:59
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