Tuesday, 2015-04-14

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anteaya#startmeeting third-party08:05
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr 14 08:05:46 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.08:05
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.08:05
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)"08:05
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'third_party'08:05
anteayahands up if you are here for the third party meeting08:06
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eantyshevHi, everyone!08:09
anteayahello eantyshev08:09
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anteayahow are you?08:09
eantyshevThanks, great! got a question08:10
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anteayaask away08:10
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eantyshevmy gearman server looses jobs info after zuul is restarted08:11
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anteayado you have a stack trace?08:11
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eantyshevjobs are reported as 'not registered', no trace08:12
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anteayaah yes 'not registered' a favourite08:12
anteayaso this occurs after zuul is restarted08:13
eantyshevevenually brought back08:13
anteayaso yes not registered is usually due to a communication disconnect between zuul and gearman08:13
anteayahave you tried restarting gearman when you restart zuul?08:13
anteayaI'm not sure that will work, I'm just wondering if you have tried that08:14
eantyshevisn't gearman client opened from zuul itself?08:16
anteayait might be installed with zuul due to how puppet is configured08:16
anteayabut restarting zuul doesn't restart gearman as far as I know08:17
anteayathey are separate services08:17
eantyshevhave to tell you I'm using 'development' version of puppet. Gearman server has its section in zuul config08:19
anteayaokay I'm not great at puppet08:19
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anteayacan you restart gearman from zuul?08:20
anteayaI will admit that I myself do not run these services08:20
anteayait turns out that talking to folks to co-ordinate third party efforts takes more time that I had expected over the last 2 years08:21
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anteayaand my residual energy has not been sufficient for me to stand up these services myself08:21
anteayawhile I wish that I had been able to08:21
anteayaI have to be honest with my abilities in this area08:21
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anteayaso I know that not registered means that in the zuul > gearman > jenkins communication chain someone is not talking to the others08:22
anteayabut after that I am guessing08:23
anteayaand trying to recall what others have done08:23
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eantyshevOkay, this isn't a big deal, I can investigate it further08:25
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eantyshevJust wondered if anyone faced it08:26
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anteayaand yes, I think almost everyone has hit it at some point08:28
anteayasee if you can find a way to restart gearman08:28
eantyshevAs far as I understand, gearman server hosts as a child of the main zuul-server process08:28
anteayaalso can you list processes, and see if gearman is there08:28
anteayasee I have a different understanding08:28
anteayamy understanding is that gearman is its own service08:29
anteayabut I only have hearsay for my understanding08:29
anteayaso you may be correct08:29
eantyshevlooking at zuul/cmd/server.py: Server.start_gear_server()08:29
anteayais there a restart?08:29
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eantyshevservice zuul stop/start should do that?08:31
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anteayahmmmm, looking at the server.py file you may be correct08:32
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anteayado you have a zuul merger set up?08:32
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eantyshevit's in another process, zuul-merger. Has it anything with gearman?08:33
anteayawell the jobs need it08:34
eantyshevdoes its job allright08:34
anteayaso I am going with gearman must have to interface with it at some point08:34
eantyshevI restart them both, anyway08:34
anteayacan't hurt08:35
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anteayaeantyshev: any further thoughts?08:44
anteayaor are you trying it now?08:44
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eantyshevanteaya: have to investigate how to trigger gearman server jobs update08:46
anteayaah okay, fair enough08:46
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anteayadid you have anything else you wanted to discuss today?08:47
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eantyshevno, just that08:47
anteayaokay great08:47
anteayaso are you willing to come back to the meeting next week and share your findings?08:48
eantyshevanteaya: I'll do my best08:49
anteayathank you08:49
anteayaany objection to me ending this meeting?08:50
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anteayasee you next week09:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"09:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr 14 09:00:18 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)09:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-04-14-08.05.html09:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-04-14-08.05.txt09:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-04-14-08.05.log.html09:00
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n0ano#startmeeting gantt15:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr 14 15:00:36 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gantt)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'gantt'15:00
n0anoanyone here to talk about the scheduler?15:00
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n0anonot much to talk about today, mostly reviews for the release, but...15:02
n0ano#topic Vancouver sessions15:02
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n0anoI know we're on the list for a scheduler session, do we have any more details we want to put up?15:03
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bauzasn0ano: I updated the etherpad15:03
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n0anoI saw that, it looks good for getting a discussion going15:04
bauzasoops L6015:04
n0anobauzas, yeah, others updated the pad15:04
bauzasn0ano: yeah johnthetubaguy added a very good question about the opportunity to split out the sched15:05
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n0anothe one about external API?15:05
bauzasn0ano: technically, everything can be done within Nova without splitting the sched15:05
bauzasn0ano: even the cross-project stats15:06
bauzasn0ano: but we should raise the point about it not being only a tech thing15:06
n0anobauzas, +115:06
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bauzasn0ano: but also a scaling out development team15:06
n0anobauzas, all good ideas that are appropriate for the summit session15:06
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bauzasn0ano: that said, that's still an excellent question - ie. I don't care if we don't split the scheduler, I'm just concerned about making sure we can fix our problems quickly15:07
n0anofrom a session perspective, I think what's on the pad is good enough so I think we're set15:07
bauzasso we can focus on a cross-project thing soon15:07
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bauzasn0ano: I'm also in the cells V2 effort and those guys desesperatly need a scalable scheduler15:08
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alaskibauzas: +115:08
n0anocells, nova, cinder, ironic - there are lots of people that need a scheduler15:09
bauzasn0ano: so I'm beginning to draft a few things in my mind to see how we can achieve a shared-state scheduler15:09
alaskin0ano: cells primarily needs the current scheduler to scale, not for it to split15:09
bauzasn0ano: technically cells is just a nova thing15:09
n0anobauzas, beyond what we were supposed to get with the resource tracker?15:09
bauzasn0ano: it doesn't it to be split15:10
bauzasergh alaski burned me15:10
bauzasn0ano: the resource tracker is just an ugly thing for providing food for thoughts to the scheduler15:10
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bauzasn0ano: I raised an old BP led by jay about allocation ratios which need to move on to the RT15:11
bauzasn0ano: we also need to consider how we can put claims to the scheduler15:11
jaypipeshi guys.15:11
bauzasbut I don't think those two tasks are necessary for scaling out the sched15:11
bauzasjaypipes: \o/15:11
jaypipessorry, been on vacation until about 2 hours ago.15:12
bauzasjaypipes: you were under radar :)15:12
bauzasjaypipes: np15:12
jaypipesyes, deliberately :)15:12
n0anoI'm a little worried that the scheduler was ugly so we create the RT and now the RT is ugly so we create something else, a lot of spinning going on15:12
bauzasn0ano: we reduced the tech debt by a good level in Kilo15:12
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bauzasjaypipes: so, we could discuss further on but I was basically saying that I provided a list of things to do for Liberrty15:13
n0anobauzas, for the priority tasks, there's still a lot of other tech debt to deal with15:13
bauzasjaypipes: do you think you will have time to look at bp/resource-usage ?15:14
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bauzasjaypipes: I also hijacked bp/allocation-ratios-to-RT because we need it soon :)15:14
bauzasn0ano: which are ?15:15
jaypipesbauzas: I will tackle resource-usage this week.15:15
bauzasjaypipes: \o/15:15
n0anobauzas, just in general, a lot of overload on the core team15:15
jaypipesbauzas: cool on allocation-ratio one.15:15
bauzasn0ano: so we need to get a priority for Liberty15:15
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bauzasn0ano: because it damned worked good15:15
bauzasworked *well15:16
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bauzasfat fingers and a f* English15:16
n0anobauzas, well, it'll be interesting to see what other items want to be a priority15:16
bauzasn0ano: sure15:16
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bauzasn0ano: but wrt cells, scheduling is just a necessary for them too15:16
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n0anothe process works great if you're a priority, not so much if not15:16
bauzasn0ano: so let's us become a priority thing15:17
* PaulMurray o/ - sorry I'm late15:17
n0anoPaulMurray, NP15:17
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bauzasn0ano: honestly, we're one of the priorities which kinda succeeded on the last cycle15:17
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bauzasn0ano: but sure, we can't bet on that - at least I wouldn't15:18
n0anobauzas, +115:18
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n0anowell, I think we're actually ready for Vancouver, what a surprise15:19
bauzassoooo, I would just say that we need to continue focusing on improving the scheduler while considering why a split would be important at the same time15:19
bauzasn0ano: well, we need some housekeeping stuff15:19
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bauzasjaypipes: would you mind resubmit bp/resource-objects for Liberty as a Previously-approved spec ?15:20
n0anowhat housekeeping are you thinking of, other than re-submitting specs for liberty15:20
bauzasn0ano: exactly that one :D15:20
n0anogood seque...15:20
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n0ano#topic Specs for Liberty15:20
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs for Liberty (Meeting topic: gantt)"15:20
bauzasso I made a few uploads15:20
n0anonow that L is open we shoul re-submit all our open specs again, this is mainly to bauzas and PaulMurray15:21
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jaypipesbauzas: yes, I will do that.15:21
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bauzasn0ano: and jaypipes's bp/resource-objects15:21
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bauzasjaypipes: excellent, ty15:21
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bauzasand PaulMurray's make-rt-use-objects15:21
bauzasthen, I'll sort it out with johnthetubaguy for the ones who are consensual15:22
PaulMurrayn0ano, johnthetubaguy approved the rt-objects as a trivial-not-needing spec15:22
johnthetubaguydo ping me if you need help getting stuff approved15:22
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n0anoPaulMurray, reall?  cool, that makes your life simpler15:22
PaulMurrayjohnthetubaguy, will I need to bother with the spec ^^^15:22
bauzasPaulMurray: cool, then let's resume your work on that bp15:22
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bauzasjohnthetubaguy: I made a few updates for the L specs15:22
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johnthetubaguyPaulMurray: treating it as an objects tidy up / bug fix, given we discussed that spec enough before now15:23
johnthetubaguyPaulMurray: lets see if everyone agrees, but I would ignore the spec thing for now15:23
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: I wouldn't bet it could be fast-approved as I needed to make some adjustements15:23
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n0anobauzas, adjustments to the spec or the patches?15:23
bauzasn0ano: on the specs15:23
johnthetubaguybauzas: good heads up15:23
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bauzasn0ano: some content was outdated because we merged a few things and some content was wrong because the implementation draft showed it was an error15:24
n0anounless the bauzas adjustments are major we should still be able to fast track the spec15:24
bauzasn0ano: I leave that to the nova-drivers15:24
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bauzasn0ano: that doesn't block me to work on the implementation15:25
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n0anoso, bottom line, PaulMurray doesn't need to re-submit, hopefully we can fast track bauzas & jaypipes specs15:26
bauzasthat leaves others think about other things they want to shape for L15:26
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n0anobauzas, that15:26
* n0ano fat fingers also15:26
bauzasn0ano: on my side, I'm pretty staffed for Liberty15:26
n0anobauzas, that's always the case of other developtment15:27
n0anoOK, moving on...15:27
n0ano#topic opens15:27
*** openstack changes topic to "opens (Meeting topic: gantt)"15:27
n0anoanything new for today?15:27
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n0anohearing crickets15:28
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* n0ano is afraid he will have to go back to re-wiring his house (long story)15:28
bauzasre-wiring ?15:29
bauzasis it what I understand ?15:29
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n0ano100Mbit needs 4 wires from a Cat-5 cable, 1G needs all 8 leaving nothing for the phone line15:29
bauzasn0ano: invest on IoT15:29
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n0anogetting 1G ethernet & phone is `challenging`15:30
bauzasanyway, that's off-topic but I can help you, I have a personal home wired network that can do both15:31
n0anobauzas, my house only sent 1 single Cat5 cable to each room, I want 1G15:31
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bauzasn0ano: got it, move to Cat6 but that shouldn't impact your phone line15:31
n0anoI have the solution, just requires re-wiring15:31
n0anowe can compare notes at Vancouver15:32
bauzasor buy a SIP hone15:32
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n0anoOK, I think we're done on the scheduler15:32
n0anotnx everyone15:32
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:32
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr 14 15:32:28 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:32
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openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-04-14-15.00.html15:32
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-04-14-15.00.txt15:32
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-04-14-15.00.log.html15:32
n0anobauzas, when I said re-wiring I meant the distribution panel & the room jacks, I can't run new cable15:33
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msdubov_#startmeeting Rally17:07
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr 14 17:07:53 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is msdubov_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:07
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:07
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:07
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'rally'17:07
msdubov_rvasilets, yfried, andreykurilin1 Hi17:08
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yfriedmsdubov_: hi. I'm partially here...17:09
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msdubov_yfried, Ok :)17:09
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msdubov_pradeep Hi!17:11
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msdubov_Okay seems like the today's meeting is going to be not very long since many people are missing17:12
msdubov_But let's start17:12
msdubov_#topic Rally accepted to Openstack17:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Rally accepted to Openstack (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:12
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yfriedmsdubov_: yey17:12
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msdubov_After 1.5 years of development Rally has got accepted to OpenStack as an official OpenStack project!17:12
msdubov_#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/169357/17:13
msdubov_Nice job, guys, and congratulations17:13
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msdubov_#topic Release 0.0.317:13
*** openstack changes topic to "Release 0.0.3 (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:13
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meteorfoxmsdubov_: what are the next steps? does Rally moves to github OpenStack17:14
meteorfoxoops to late17:14
pradeepmsdubov_: Hi17:14
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msdubov_meteorfox, nevermind :) Yep, as far as I know we will move to OpenStack17:14
pradeepmsdubov_: kool  :)17:14
* yfried gonna have to change all automation scripts...17:15
msdubov_meteorfox, and the next steps are to deal somehow with the increasing interest from the community :)17:15
msdubov_meteorfox, there will be more and more developers involved17:15
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meteorfoxmsdubov_: I think having a very clear roadmap should help focus that interest17:15
pradeepmsdubov_:  yfried: Good news. Any major code changes expected  due to this?17:15
msdubov_meteorfox, yep, that's true17:15
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msdubov_pradeep, don't think so, we're just following our Roadmap as before17:16
msdubov_So another important news is that we are about to have the 0.0.3 release17:16
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msdubov_Oh we actually already have it :)17:16
msdubov_#link https://review.openstack.org/17313417:16
msdubov_This release cycle took us 33 days, but we're striving towards a 2-weeks release cycle17:17
msdubov_The 0.0.3 release brings 53 commits17:17
msdubov_Among them - 11 new plugins (benchmark scenarios/runners/sla stuff) and 14 bugfixes17:17
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msdubov_0.0.3 also includes some changes in the docs and the spec on the new input task format17:18
msdubov_Any questions on this?17:18
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yfriedmsdubov_: re spec - have we started working on it?17:19
pradeepmsdubov_:   2 week cycle would be bit challenging?17:19
pradeepmsdubov_: how do other projects follow?17:19
yfriedpradeep: milestones (~3 for each version, AFAIK)17:20
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msdubov_yfried: Seems like not yet, there are some blockers that have to be implemented first17:21
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msdubov_pradeep, Yep, this is going to be challenging, the next topic is going to be about that17:22
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msdubov_So let's move to it17:23
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msdubov_#topic Release management17:23
*** openstack changes topic to "Release management (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:23
msdubov_So, indeed, to have a successful 2-weeks release cycle, we have to be a bit more organized17:23
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msdubov_And there should be a mechanism of notifying the reviewers of what should be reviewed first to get to the next release17:24
msdubov_The idea is to use a special blueprint for that17:24
msdubov_#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/rally/+spec/important-for-next-release17:24
msdubov_This blueprint has to be mentioned in the corresponding patches on Gerrit, which will make it simpler for the reviewers to find out the patches that are of the highest importance17:24
yfriedmsdubov_: openstack projects can create special gerrit dashboards with priorities and such17:25
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msdubov_yfried, interesting, I personally didn't take a llok at them17:25
msdubov_yfried, but anyway, we're always trying to make everything as simple as possible17:26
msdubov_yfried, A blueprint makes it simple to make just a list of patches that have to be merged in 0.0.x17:26
msdubov_yfried, thanks17:26
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msdubov_yfried, Thank you one more time17:27
msdubov_#action to look at the gerrit dashboards17:27
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yfriedmsdubov_: that's unrelated to tracking patches with bp17:27
msdubov_yfried, I see17:28
yfriedmsdubov_: which should be done regardlessly17:28
msdubov_yfried, ok17:28
msdubov_So along with that...17:28
msdubov_We will also presumably have a special IRC meeting at #openstack-meeting for release discussions17:28
msdubov_every week17:28
yfriedmsdubov_: could we do it in more reasonable times?17:28
pradeepmsdubov_: was about to ask that17:29
msdubov_yfried, aren't you ok with the time of this meeting?17:29
pradeepyfried:  ^17:29
yfriedit's 20:30 for me17:29
msdubov_yfried, for me too :)17:29
aswadrfolks- which timezone is it?17:30
pradeepmsdubov_:  23:00  in india now. :)17:30
yfriedmsdubov_: my daughter here is wating for her bath ... :(17:30
aswadris is*17:30
msdubov_yfried, ah17:30
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yfried~5hrs earlier?17:30
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msdubov_aswadr, UTC+3 for me17:31
msdubov_yfried, Will talk to boris-42!17:31
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yfriedmsdubov_: maybe alternating weeks?17:31
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aswadr@msdubov_ thanks! and is the day decidec too?17:31
msdubov_yfried, I think we have the meeting in the evening to make it possible for people overseas to participate17:31
msdubov_aswadr, Not yet17:31
msdubov_yfried, alternating weeks? what do you mean?17:32
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yfriedmsdubov_: 1 week this time, 1week earlier17:32
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msdubov_yfried, Not sure this is the best solution...17:33
msdubov_yfried, Ok, will discuss that with Boris17:33
msdubov_So, as for the release management17:33
msdubov_I will be responsible for this process17:33
msdubov_(chairing meetings, writing release notes etc.)17:33
msdubov_Are there any questions left on this?17:34
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msdubov_yfried, Do you have a couple of minutes?17:36
yfriedmsdubov_: yes17:36
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msdubov_#topic Refactoring scenario utils17:37
*** openstack changes topic to "Refactoring scenario utils (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:37
msdubov_#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/172831/17:37
msdubov_yfried, Could you please tell us a bit about this?17:37
yfriedmsdubov_: great17:37
yfriedso this was asked for by boris-4217:37
* yfried looking for links17:38
yfriedwe worked on https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:stackforge/rally+branch:master+topic:IPv6_Tests,n,z17:38
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yfriedand it intorduces complicated changes that are required in ctx as well as wrapper and would be handy in Neutron utils and other scenario down the road17:39
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yfriedso the idea is to have all service utils in one place that is accesible for all plugins17:41
yfriedand while at it, move away from the inheritance relationship between utils and scenarios, towards compositions17:42
yfriedmeaning: scenarios will have utils as attributes17:42
yfriedclear enough?17:42
msdubov_yfried, yep, thanks!17:43
msdubov_yfried, Will review17:43
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yfriedmsdubov_: also17:44
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yfriedhaving all utils in a single place will make the wrapper (net, keystone) part of that tree and simpler to handle17:44
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msdubov_yfried, Won't it be a kind of too much for a single place?17:45
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yfriedmsdubov_: having the wrapper there as well?17:46
yfriedmsdubov_: IMO no17:46
msdubov_yfried, ok17:46
yfriedmsdubov_: becuase they would be integrated in this tree and would hold only the necessary code (less code in wrapper)17:47
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msdubov_yfried, ok17:48
msdubov_#topic Free discussion17:48
*** openstack changes topic to "Free discussion (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:48
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yfriedmsdubov_: what about meeting agenda?17:48
pradeepmsdubov_: i see some patches posted long long before.17:48
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msdubov_yfried, ?17:49
msdubov_pradeep, Which ones?17:49
pradeepmsdubov_:  some one working on those?17:49
pradeepmsdubov_: for ex: ironic.17:50
pradeepmsdubov_:  https://review.openstack.org/#/c/117705/17:50
msdubov_pradeep, As for that patch, it seems like it should have been abandoned17:50
msdubov_pradeep, There is a similar work in another chain of patches https://review.openstack.org/#/c/141671/17:51
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msdubov_pradeep, But some patches are just low priority17:51
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msdubov_pradeep, or people get tired of working on them :)17:51
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yfriedpradeep: I guess you could post a comment asking about them, and if no response in ~1wk, just take over17:52
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pradeepmsdubov_:  :) ok17:52
pradeepyfried: sure17:52
yfriedpradeep: if that's what you are asking17:52
yfriedmsdubov_: re agenda17:52
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yfriedmsdubov_: boris suggested we publish an editable agenda prior to the meetings, so ppl can add stuff, and prepare in advance, or maybe cancle a meeting if nothing is on the agenda?17:53
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msdubov_yfried, hm, that makes sense17:54
msdubov_yfried, he didn't tell me that today :)17:54
yfriedmsdubov_: if we had an agenda...17:54
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yfriedmsdubov_: also, do we have some automatic logging of meetings?17:54
msdubov_msdubov_, It just turned out a couple of hours back that I'll chair it17:55
msdubov_yfried, yes17:55
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msdubov_When I'll finish the meeting there will be links17:55
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msdubov_yfried, Can I do that? :)17:55
toskyyfried: you can use the wiki, as other projects do: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Rally17:56
* yfried going to wash my kid17:56
yfriedmsdubov_: sure17:56
msdubov_yfried, You can also always find the link to the meeting logs here http://rally.readthedocs.org/en/latest/project_info.html17:57
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:57
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr 14 17:57:18 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:57
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-04-14-17.07.html17:57
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-04-14-17.07.txt17:57
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-04-14-17.07.log.html17:57
msdubov_yfried, ^17:57
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morganfainbergdolphm, ayoung, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, nkinder, lloydm, shrekuma, ksavich, hrybacki, rharwood, grantbow, vdreamarkitex, raildo, rodrigods, amakarov, ajayaa, hogepodge, breton, lhcheng, nonameentername, samueldmq, htruta, amolock, wanghong, fmarco76, davechen, dims,17:59
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lbragstadmorganfainberg: hey17:59
stevemarmorganfainberg, you are here!17:59
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dolphmwonder if there's anyone one that ping list that should be pruned?17:59
morganfainbergstevemar: yeah was going to be here in either case. Just wasn't sure when I'd need to leave.17:59
stevemarcool cool18:00
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morganfainbergdolphm: probably. But not sure who.18:00
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dolphmmorganfainberg: maybe start by building a list of those who are never online to receive a ping18:00
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morganfainbergI think I'll do roll call next 2-3 meetings18:01
henrynashgood evening18:01
morganfainbergAnyone not there will be pruned18:01
ayoungRobot Roll Call!18:02
stevemarthe list is getting a bit long18:02
morganfainbergWaiting for scroll back on my main connection.18:02
morganfainberg#startmeeting keystone18:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr 14 18:02:44 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is morganfainberg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:02
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morganfainbergOk going to do a rollcall vote, please respond if you're here for the keystone meeting. after 2-3 meetings will prune the ping list18:03
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ayoungmorganfainberg, I hear they have much faster wireless in the Cafes in NYC18:03
morganfainberg#startvote Rollcall? here18:03
openstackBegin voting on: Rollcall? Valid vote options are here.18:03
openstackVote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.18:03
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bknudson#vote here18:03
ayoung#vote here18:03
dstanek#vote here18:03
morganfainberg#vote here18:03
lbragstad#vote here18:03
raildo#vote here18:03
gyee#vote here18:03
rodrigods#vote here18:03
bknudsonthis is like the PTL vote where there was only one option18:03
stevemar#vote not_here18:03
openstackstevemar: not_here is not a valid option. Valid options are here.18:03
ajayaa#vote here18:04
davechen#vote here18:04
stevemar#vote here18:04
morganfainbergbknudson, nothing stopped you from running for PTL ;)18:04
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ayoung#vote no lo contendere18:04
openstackayoung: no lo contendere is not a valid option. Valid options are here.18:04
henrynash#vote here18:04
dolphm#vote here18:04
gyee#vote for Hilary18:04
openstackgyee: for Hilary is not a valid option. Valid options are here.18:04
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topol#vote here18:04
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amakarov#vote here18:04
morganfainberg20 more seconds.18:04
ayoung#vote for Pedro18:04
openstackayoung: for Pedro is not a valid option. Valid options are here.18:04
ayoung#vote here18:04
henrynashvote monster-raving-looney-party18:04
lhcheng#vote here18:04
joesavak#vote here18:05
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ayounghenrynash, this is Keystone.  That would just be redundant.18:05
openstackVoted on "Rollcall?" Results are18:05
openstackhere (17): rodrigods, davechen, gyee, lbragstad, ayoung, morganfainberg, lhcheng, bknudson, ajayaa, dstanek, dolphm, topol, joesavak, amakarov, henrynash, raildo, stevemar18:05
henrynash(see: http://www.omrlp.com)18:05
lbragstadboom, new list!18:05
morganfainbergwe'll do that the next couple meetings and then prune the list down.18:05
morganfainberg#topic RC2 opens for patches tomorrow18:06
*** openstack changes topic to "RC2 opens for patches tomorrow (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:06
ayoungmorganfainberg, is the new list going to be the union or intersection?18:06
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stevemarhenrynash, theyd get my vote18:06
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morganfainbergayoung, new list will be union of all around for all 3 rollcalls18:06
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bknudsonfirst patches will have to be ones to get it working.18:06
morganfainberganyway, RC2 opens tomorrow18:06
dolphmayoung: must be present to win18:06
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morganfainbergwe have ~5-6 bugs18:07
morganfainbergi don't think we have a lot more to add.18:07
morganfainberglooking good18:07
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ayoungmorganfainberg, is all the web sso stuff in?18:07
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ayoungLet me check the blacklist one...I thought that made it18:07
morganfainbergayoung, if it isn't we can't backport it.18:07
morganfainbergayoung, i'm 99% sure that landed.18:07
ayoungmorganfainberg, yeah, I think the issue is other projects, not Keystone server18:07
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lhchengayoung: yeah, that is in master and tagged for rc18:08
rodrigodsblacklist in mapping rules?18:08
morganfainbergrodrigods, yeah18:08
ayoungrodrigods, I'll link18:08
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morganfainbergit should be in rc18:08
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lhchengayoung: oops nvm, thought it was the remote_id mapping.18:08
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morganfainbergwe can evaluate it if it isn't in rc118:08
ayounglhcheng, ah, I knew there was one...18:09
morganfainbergbut i think it had dependency issues18:09
morganfainbergor one of them did and needed to push to L18:09
ayoungmorganfainberg, yeah, remote_id mapping needs backport18:09
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morganfainbergayoung, that one was icky iirc18:09
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rodrigodsremote_id mapping hasn't support in OSC18:09
rodrigodssaw someone complaining about it18:09
morganfainbergplease tag bugs w/ the kilo-rc-potential flag18:09
morganfainbergif it should be in RC [and is a legitimate blocker]18:09
ayoungthere was also the bug nkinder fixed ...18:10
morganfainbergif it is questionable if it should block RC ask me, ask dolphm,18:10
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morganfainbergdolphm, hah you don't get off the hook! >.>18:10
ayoungbug: #144018518:10
openstackbug 1440185 in Keystone "Identity provider create fails if remote_id is not set" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1440185 - Assigned to Nathan Kinder (nkinder)18:10
dolphm /hugs18:10
morganfainbergayoung, fixed released = in rc18:11
ayoungyep...just doing the due dilligence18:11
morganfainbergayoung, would be fix commited otherwise :)18:11
ayoungwe put too much effort into websso to have it be broken due to an unmerged patch now18:11
morganfainbergok moving on18:11
morganfainberg#topic Keystone middleware to "named" release model18:11
*** openstack changes topic to "Keystone middleware to "named" release model (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:11
morganfainbergas much as I like Semver18:11
morganfainbergwe are locked to the requirements of the process ksm runs in18:11
morganfainbergamong other things18:12
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morganfainbergwe should move ksm to the named release model18:12
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morganfainbergi'll put this to a vote though.18:12
lhchengayoung: doa 1.2.0 released yesterday - that includes the websso patch18:12
morganfainbergand/or open for discussion18:12
bknudsonwe could try to expand the supported requirements.18:12
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ayounglhcheng, and Horizon had all the fixes in rc 1 as well, right?18:13
bknudsonalthough that will be difficult if it depends on keystoneclient features.18:13
morganfainbergbknudson, the issue is semver + global-requirements = really really odd mixes of can/does/doesn't work18:13
lhchengayoung: yes18:13
ayoungmorganfainberg, so:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1441827  can't be backported?18:13
openstackLaunchpad bug 1441827 in Keystone "Cannot set per protocol remote_id_attribute" [High,Fix committed] - Assigned to Lin Hua Cheng (lin-hua-cheng)18:13
morganfainbergthe named release is fine with ksc since it still locks to the version.18:13
ayoungIt means our docs are wrong18:13
morganfainbergayoung, we will evaluate any bug.18:13
jamielennoxmorganfainberg: switching to named versions would mean we could start deprecating in release + 2 at least18:14
morganfainbergayoung, is it legitimately a release blocker? or is it a "would be nice to have"18:14
ayoungmorganfainberg, its currently targetted at L118:14
morganfainbergjamielennox, correct.18:14
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dstanekjamielennox: i like that18:14
morganfainbergayoung, lets look at it tomorrow with the other bugs.18:14
bknudsonI think we can already deprecate things since we've got stable branches now.18:14
ayoungmorganfainberg, so I shouldtag ita s rc2 if I think it should be backported?18:15
bknudsonfor keystonemiddleware and keystoneclient18:15
morganfainbergayoung, yes.18:15
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morganfainbergbknudson, client is a bit different since the CLI and interfaces are used outside of openstack18:15
morganfainbergbknudson, but ksm is all private interfaces18:15
ayoungOK...it has that18:15
morganfainbergbknudson, lets start with KSM since it's easier and attack client separately18:15
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morganfainbergbknudson, before we deprecate in client i want to do the keystoneauth split anyway18:16
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gyeesplit keystoneauth?18:16
jamielennoxgyee: session and auth plugins into there own library18:16
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morganfainberggyee, session, discovery, plugins into their own repo. auth != interfacing with keystone's API18:16
morganfainbergand really trim requirements down for it18:17
gyeek, make sense18:17
morganfainbergso, for KSM, anyone feel strongly against moving it to the named release cycle?18:17
bknudsonis openstack sdk going to use keystoneauth?18:17
gyeeI think they would be oslo common right?18:17
morganfainbergthis would be for Liberty and beyond.18:17
gyeesince auth is shared18:17
bknudsonnamed release cycle makes sense for ksm.18:17
morganfainbergkilo will stick with semver cause we're already here.18:17
morganfainbergand we have lots of test rekejiggering to do if we do named/milestone releases18:18
morganfainbergs/test/gate job/18:18
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morganfainbergok quick vote18:18
morganfainberg#startvote Move keystonemiddleware to "named" release cycle? yes,no,i-dislike-polls18:19
openstackBegin voting on: Move keystonemiddleware to "named" release cycle? Valid vote options are yes, no, i-dislike-polls.18:19
openstackVote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.18:19
morganfainbergfair warning, that last option is a yes.18:19
dstanek#vote i-dislike-polls18:19
morganfainberg#vote yes18:19
amakarov#vote yes18:19
jamielennox#vote yes18:19
dolphm#vote no-strong-opinion18:20
davechen#vote yes18:20
openstackdolphm: no-strong-opinion is not a valid option. Valid options are yes, no, i-dislike-polls.18:20
bknudson#vote yes18:20
lbragstad#vote i-dislike-polls18:20
gyee#vote yes18:20
dstanektbh, i would be fine either way18:20
dolphm#vote i-dislike-polls18:20
rodrigods#vote i-dislike-polls18:20
ayoung#vote yes18:20
lbragstaddstanek: ++18:20
lbragstadsame here18:20
lhcheng#vote yes18:20
morganfainbergdolphm, dstanek, no strong opinion = lets go with the easier/less confusing path18:20
morganfainbergwhich i think is named releases18:20
joesavak#vote yes18:20
morganfainberg15 more s18:21
topoldoes dolphm mean he is a strong no or no opinion?18:21
topol#vote yes18:21
morganfainbergtopol, eats shoots and leaves or eats, shoots, and leaves?18:21
openstackVoted on "Move keystonemiddleware to "named" release cycle?" Results are18:21
openstacki-dislike-polls (4): lbragstad, rodrigods, dstanek, dolphm18:21
dolphmtopol: strong no opinion18:21
openstackyes (10): joesavak, gyee, ayoung, morganfainberg, lhcheng, davechen, jamielennox, amakarov, bknudson, topol18:21
topollet's eat grandma18:21
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morganfainberg#action in liberty keystone middleware moves to "named" release18:22
dolphmi kinda wish everything was semver, but <reality>18:22
morganfainbergdolphm, yah18:22
bknudsonyah, what happened to keystone semver?18:22
rodrigodssem ver in portuguese: without seeing18:22
morganfainbergbknudson, i am worried about a bag of worms that scares the hell out of me at the moment18:22
morganfainbergbknudson, waiting for some fallout from big tent to make any proposals18:23
bknudsonnow I'm scared.18:23
morganfainbergbknudson, it's more how much bikeshedding do i want to deal with over something that has minimal impact at the moment18:23
morganfainbergbknudson, shouldn't affect anyone measurably otherwise18:23
htrutatoo late for voting "here" ? :(18:23
morganfainbergand right now, my tolerance for that kind of bike shedding is pretty low (after release i'll be more open to dealing with that)18:24
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morganfainberghtruta, which way would you have voted?18:24
ayounghtruta, just make sure you make the poll at the meeting for being on the ping list18:24
dolphmmorganfainberg: was there more than one choice?18:24
morganfainbergdolphm, for rollcall? oh no18:24
morganfainberghtruta, we'll do a few more rollcall votes18:25
* dolphm votes htruta is here18:25
morganfainbergbefore we trim any lists18:25
htrutamorganfainberg, ayoung: cool18:25
morganfainbergand i see you're here18:25
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htrutathanks, dolphm lol18:25
joesavakdelegated single-factor authentication.18:25
morganfainbergthe next few topics are related18:25
morganfainberg#topic Spec proposal freeze L1, feature freeze L218:26
*** openstack changes topic to "Spec proposal freeze L1, feature freeze L2 (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:26
morganfainbergthis is in line with making the summit what our midcycle has been18:26
morganfainbergpush specs through18:26
morganfainbergaddress design decisions18:26
morganfainbergand give ourselves a lot more runway for code to land in Liberty18:26
ayoungOur batle cry is "check my spec or I'll wring your neck!"18:26
morganfainbergespecially being a slightly shorter cycle18:26
lbragstadmorganfainberg: we don't have hard dates for L1 and L2 yet do we?18:26
henrynashayoung: ha!18:26
dolphmlbragstad: not yet18:27
dolphmlbragstad: there's some proposed dates on the ML18:27
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morganfainberglbragstad, i think we have firm but not confirmed dates18:27
morganfainbergmost are around the last milestone with question marks iirc18:27
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dolphmlbragstad: unless someone has a reason to object to the proposed dates18:27
lbragstaddolphm: morganfainberg makes sense18:27
joesavakproposed sched: ( i looked it up so think  y'all may be too):18:28
joesavakliberty-1: June 25th18:28
joesavakliberty-2: July 30th18:28
joesavakliberty-3: September 3rd18:28
joesavakfinal release: October 15th18:28
morganfainbergThe goal here is to keep the  "new" API impacting features to a short ~5 item list.18:28
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morganfainbergso things like Reseller, Policy refactor, tokenless auth18:28
morganfainbergall on the proposed list.18:28
morganfainbergbut i want to keep this list small so we can focus on stability, performance, and testing18:29
henrynashand can we lay on this an approximate mid-cyle date (want to make sure I’m not moving house again)?18:29
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henrynashmyabe around 2nd week of July?18:29
morganfainberghenrynash, i am hopeing we can avoid a midcycle18:29
morganfainberghenrynash, to be honest18:29
morganfainbergan in-person one that is18:29
topolwill we be doing a midcycle meetup (as I make reservations to travel to Austin next week..)18:29
bknudsonI'll just have to hang out on the riverwalk for no reason.18:29
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gyeeI heard Vegas have better conference rooms18:30
morganfainbergi'd rather people travel to other midcycles and focus on getting initiatives like "openstack working with V2 disabled"18:30
henrynashI vote for a midcycle18:30
lbragstadthere's pretty good saxophone music down there...18:30
morganfainbergthan travel.18:30
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raildogyee, or in Rio, in Brazil :D18:30
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gyee++ for Rio18:30
morganfainbergbut if everyone wants a mid cycle, i'll start doing the legwork to get space18:31
morganfainbergbecause i'd like to start that now18:31
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ayoungMidcycle at henrynash 's new house!18:31
joesavakperhaps midcycle topic for next meeting? We can combine with horizon/oslo groups?18:31
henrynashok,,,,,sure….by the coast…yep, lay it on18:31
topolIm scared not to do one in person. Those are quite productive18:31
ayoungjoesavak, that would be cool18:31
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morganfainbergjoesavak, sure. lets do PDX, SEA, or California though :P18:31
morganfainbergjoesavak, to be fair i am aiming to *not* do it in SAT if we do it.18:32
joesavakgood w/me18:32
ayoungmorganfainberg, let's get you to NYC18:32
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morganfainbergBoston could also be on the list.18:32
morganfainbergso sounds like people like midcycles.18:32
ayoungWe could certainly host18:32
morganfainbergok i'll start finding a venue18:32
morganfainbergi'll put a ML topic out18:32
mtreinishmorganfainberg: ftr, the hp chelsea office worked out well for us :)18:32
stevemarthey are very useful18:32
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jamielennoxhawaii is still US18:32
morganfainbergwe will talk more next week on it18:33
ayoungI know that other teams have had midcycyles here18:33
morganfainbergbut we'll confirm it all before the summit if at all possible18:33
lbragstadjamielennox: ++18:33
amolock+ Austin18:33
morganfainbergamolock, sorry i veto texas for this one for keystone18:33
rodrigodsanywhere that I can get sponsored to go :)18:33
morganfainbergamolock, we've done texas the last few times.18:33
amolockbecause it's the best18:33
morganfainbergrodrigods, and i'll make sure to get the right letters in place for you guys to come up.18:33
morganfainbergrodrigods, remind me on that though ok?18:33
ayoungmorganfainberg, as strange as it sounds to say it, I bet we could get space at the Microsoft NERD center in Cambridge18:33
topolBoston or Westford? There *is* a difference18:34
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rodrigodsmorganfainberg, ++ thanks!18:34
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morganfainbergtopol, next meeting we will go more in detail18:34
morganfainbergand line up options.18:34
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morganfainbergi'll send out some emails this week.18:34
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morganfainbergso i have some options.18:34
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morganfainberg#action morganfainberg schedule midcycle arrangements18:35
morganfainberg#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-liberty-priority-specs18:35
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morganfainbergplease fill out this etherpad so we can confirm our ~5ish features for next cycle18:36
morganfainbergsow e can get to work on specs18:36
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morganfainbergthis is for "new" API impacting features18:36
bknudsonREST API?18:36
morganfainbergtests, ABI definitions, tech debt paydown, performance, etc18:36
geoffarnolddrop dead date for this?18:36
morganfainbergthose are separate18:36
lbragstadmorganfainberg: what about specs that focus on refactoring and cleanup?18:36
morganfainbergbknudson, yes REST API.18:36
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rodrigodsmorganfainberg, sometimes there are features that need to be split into more than one spec18:37
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rodrigodsHMT, for example: hmt, improvements and recursive deletion18:37
morganfainbergrodrigods, reseller is "new"18:38
morganfainbergrodrigods, recursive deletion would be minor or part of reseller18:38
morganfainbergfor example18:38
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raildomorganfainberg, and we intend to create a spec for dual scoped token18:39
morganfainbergjust keep in mind i really want to keep the feature count low this cycle18:39
raildomorganfainberg, so we keep this part of reseller?18:39
morganfainbergso we can really really make the rest of the stuff we have solid18:39
morganfainbergraildo, i think it's fair to say it's part of the reseller spec or subordinate to reseller18:39
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raildomorganfainberg, ok18:40
morganfainbergraildo, it's primary use would be in a reseller context, right?18:40
morganfainbergwe will circle up on this next meeting and get some direction18:40
morganfainbergplease tag "new" features that are small as (minor)18:41
raildomorganfainberg, yes, but we need to create a new spec to discuss this (or discuss at the summt and we can create just a BP)18:41
morganfainbergas the person with the pink text has done18:41
geoffarnoldI'm assuming that all the Service Federation will be off in its own Stackforge project, so the focus should be on Keystone features (if any) absolutely needed to enable it.18:41
morganfainberggeoffarnold, yeah18:41
morganfainberggeoffarnold, it may live under keystone long term, but i'd like that to be outside of the main tree18:42
ayoungtempted to move token constraints under dynamic policy18:42
gyeegeoffarnold, you have a wiki/link for service federation?18:42
geoffarnoldMe too. For asynchrony18:42
morganfainberggeoffarnold, focus on doing that "well" vs in the context of "within keystone's process space"18:42
ayoungthey are aseparate, but it would be on policy to enforce....that make sense?18:42
rodrigodsamakarov, add your spec there!18:42
geoffarnoldComing in a day or two18:42
rodrigodsamakarov, maybe in the second session18:42
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amakarovrodrigods, ok18:43
geoffarnoldRemind me... is IdP per domain currently in?18:43
morganfainberggeoffarnold, uhm..18:43
morganfainberggeoffarnold, i think so18:43
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morganfainbergthis will be circled up on next meeting.18:43
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morganfainberggeoffarnold, we can look to be sure between now and then.18:43
geoffarnoldIf it's not API-settable, I'll be pushing that. Thanks18:43
ayounggeoffarnold, what do you mean?  We can do it in the mapping file18:43
morganfainberg2 more topics18:44
morganfainberggot to keep it moving :)18:44
geoffarnoldoffline then18:44
morganfainberg#topic Summit sessions18:44
*** openstack changes topic to "Summit sessions (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:44
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morganfainbergKeystone       (fishbowl) 4      (hacksessions) 8      (½-day friday meetups) 218:45
morganfainbergthis is our current allocation18:45
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dolphmso, full day friday?18:45
morganfainbergi'm asking for 1 more fishbowl...but there is 1 left.. so we probably wont get it18:45
morganfainbergdolphm, yes18:45
morganfainbergthis is why i wanted to push so hard for keystone's summit to be more like our midcycle18:46
morganfainbergwe have a lot of time for this stuff this time around :)18:46
ayoungmorganfainberg, we are going to need both18:46
morganfainbergi also tried to keep our pre-set allocations light so we can get to other sessions with other projects18:46
ayoungespecially with the feature freeze, we need the midcycyle to approave essential features18:46
morganfainbergmaking sure other projects don't go off into the weeds with identity/auth/etc is an important part of what we do.18:47
morganfainbergayoung, the other reason to move FF to L-2 is that if something slips, we have all of L3 to catchup18:47
morganfainbergayoung, but we wont be piling every feature in on L-3 like we did with kilo18:47
morganfainbergwith no extra runway18:47
topolwhich projects moved to using Keystone V3 this cycle?18:47
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morganfainbergtopol, the goal is all projects work with v2 disabled18:48
morganfainbergwe can worry about other V3 support things after that is achieved18:48
ayoungmorganfainberg, we need to beat up the puppet and ansible guys on that, too18:49
joesavakremove the requirement for auth in all the projects, and you can run with v2 disabled. ; )18:49
morganfainbergayoung, 1st step: devstack works that way.18:49
geoffarnoldI'm proposing a Federation session as part of the Cross-project area. We can use some of that to discuss reseller, which may take pressure off our Keystone sessions. If you'd like this, please add to https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vCTZBJKCMZ2xBhglnuK3ciKo3E8UMFo5S5lmIAYMCSE/edit#gid=82750341818:49
raildogeoffarnold, ++18:49
morganfainbergjoesavak, i want to move auth endpoints to /auth not /<version>/auth18:50
morganfainbergjoesavak, there is a lot of detial i disucssed with jamielennox on this already18:50
morganfainbergjoesavak, and just wire up the auth endpoints in the backend for compat18:50
morganfainbergjoesavak, anyway18:50
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morganfainbergjoesavak, for later design discussions18:50
joesavakah, interesting - yeah - want to dig in more there18:50
morganfainberglast topic18:50
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morganfainberg#topic NoSql backend18:51
raildogeoffarnold, and if you want, we can discuss later the reseller part for this design session18:51
*** openstack changes topic to "NoSql backend (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:51
morganfainbergajayaa, o/18:51
morganfainbergoh not here18:51
openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x95f9dd0>18:51
ayoungDidn't we just remove all the nosql backends?18:51
bknudsonI'm -1 on any new backends.18:51
bknudsonI assume this is an identity backend.18:51
amakarovmorganfainberg, what about Redis? :)18:51
morganfainbergbknudson, yah was going to ask for more info18:51
gyeeno swift backend then? :)18:51
morganfainbergbknudson, anyway18:51
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morganfainbergamakarov, i'd like all backend to eventually move out of the main tree18:52
morganfainbergso we have clear dependency graphs18:52
morganfainbergbut different discussion18:52
ayoungamakarov, identity-no.  Token-no.  Others---show me the money18:52
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morganfainberg#topic Open Discussion18:52
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:52
morganfainberg8mins left18:52
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ayoungidentity should be frozen as is...primarily sql,  LDAP goes awayover time18:52
ayoungtokens become ephemeral thanks to fernet18:53
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ayoungrevocations....welll, maybe there...18:53
morganfainbergayoung, i actually see identity CRUD moving to it's own process with a conductor like interface to direct access.18:53
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ayoungmorganfainberg, and I don't disagree18:53
morganfainbergayoung, that way if someone wants to really double down on the CRUD interfaces for identity we let them.18:53
* topol you'll have to pry LDAP from my cold dead Keystone hands :-)18:53
morganfainbergtopol, conductor-like interface would provide that18:53
ayoungtopol, SSSD is the sournce man!18:53
joesavakscim the identity crud interfaces and version with scim over time18:53
morganfainbergor sssd18:54
gyeeayoung, SSSD can be per domain right?18:54
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* topol Im just kidding. I know federation will usurp18:54
ayounggyee, sssd handles multiple domains18:54
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morganfainbergjoesavak, something like thart18:54
joesavakfart or that? can't tell..18:54
morganfainbergjoesavak, we have people who want a CRUD interface, i'm happy to oblige, but it doesn't need to be keystone's "openstack" endpoint18:55
morganfainbergjoesavak, long term18:55
morganfainbergjoesavak, that*18:55
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morganfainbergjoesavak, also we can eliminate PII leaking into Openstack services that way18:55
morganfainberg[another real win]18:55
bknudsonhttp://www.simplecloud.info/ ?18:56
ayoungPentium 2?18:56
joesavakyup - scim is ietf now https://tools.ietf.org/wg/scim/18:56
morganfainbergjoesavak, good to know18:56
topolwow, I have heard SCIM mentioned for a while18:56
bknudsonit's a like a rest interface to ldap18:56
morganfainbergbknudson, OMG.18:56
morganfainbergbknudson, it's like keystone is a rest interface for a key-value-store...that doesnt do it very well.18:56
bknudsonit's even got babs jansen.18:57
* morganfainberg looks around for mordred and jeblair... "can we use toml for everything instead too?"18:57
* morganfainberg runs and hides.18:57
ayoung#end meeting18:57
morganfainbergok i think we're done.18:57
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"18:58
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr 14 18:57:59 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:58
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-04-14-18.02.html18:58
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-04-14-18.02.txt18:58
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-04-14-18.02.log.html18:58
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jeblairmorganfainberg: nicely done -- my auto kickban policy for toml only applies to the #openstack-infra channel :)18:58
morganfainbergjeblair, ^_^18:58
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fungion time and everything!19:00
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jeblair#startmeeting infra19:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr 14 19:00:47 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:00
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:00
jeblair#link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting19:01
jeblair#link previous meeting http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-04-07-19.03.html19:01
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jeblair#topic Actions from last meeting19:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:01
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jeblairfungi: thanks for chairing the previous meeting19:01
fungiany time19:01
fbohello !19:01
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jeblairclarkb migrate more jobs to swift log hosting19:02
clarkbI have not done that yet, worked with jhesketh on a plan for non log data in swift first19:03
anteayaclarkb: does the plan have an etherpad?19:03
clarkbthere is a stack of os-loganalyze changes to make that work much better that he pushed today19:03
jeblairthat sounds important19:03
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clarkbanteaya: no, it was mostly in review19:03
clarkbI can get links19:03
anteayak thanks19:03
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clarkb#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/107267/ starts there19:03
fungido they use a common change topic? oh just that series19:04
anteayaif they have the enable_swift topic they should be discoverable19:04
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clarkbya I can update the topics on them now19:04
jeblairzaro test gerrit 2.1019:05
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zarolooks good.19:05
fungiit's running on review-dev now, yeah?19:05
zaroan issue we need to deal with: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/172534/19:05
zaroyes, it's running on review-dev.19:06
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/17253419:06
jeblairaw bummer (re https://review.openstack.org/#/c/172534/)19:06
clarkbright ^ concerns me because we intentionally installed from system packages to get security updates19:06
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clarkband bouncy castle is the one that is most likely to haev important security updates19:06
zaroI was testing replication and it seems like i'm gtetting the following error: org.eclipse.jgit.errors.TransportException: git@github.com:testproj1.git: reject HostKey: github.com19:06
anteayazaro: does bouncy castle from packages work with gerrit 2.9?19:07
zaroyes, it does19:07
* anteaya leans toward 2.919:07
jeblairzaro: does 2.10 really not work with 1.49, or does 2.10 just say that it requires it?19:07
fungiare there specific features in 2.10 that use new functionality in later bc?19:08
zarojeblair: no it doesn't.19:08
zarojeblair: 2.10 does not work with 1.4919:09
fungii wonder what the best way would be to keep on top of bc security updates if we take this path19:09
zaroi've tested 2.10 and it seems like it will only work with 1.51 libs19:09
* anteaya notes we are 3.5 weeks out from the gerrit upgrade19:09
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anteayawas there anything specific we wanted in 2.10 that 2.9 doesn't give us?19:10
jeblairanteaya: yes, but we're likely to want to install 2.10 on trusty, so it's worth seeing what would be involved in solving this problem.19:10
zarofungi: i don't know the answer to your question.19:10
anteayaI want close connection which works with both19:10
anteayajeblair: ah right19:10
fungithe next ubuntu lts won't be until next spring19:11
anteayabut might there be a new ubuntu boucy castle package before the next lts release?19:11
zaroi tried looking for newer libs on backports but didn't find it.19:11
tchaypoNext northern spring?19:11
anteayatchaypo: good point19:12
anteaya12 months from now19:12
fungithe ubuntu maintainer for bc might be amenable to adding newer packages on trusty-backports19:12
fungitchaypo: yes, my bad19:12
funginext april19:12
anteayado we have contact wtih the bouncy castle maintainer?19:12
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zarothis might be a possibilty: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/repo-discuss/2F6eeXZwABE19:13
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fungilooks like ubuntu vivid still only has 1.49 anyway19:13
tchaypoI'm assuming that doing our own back port is not something we want to consider19:13
zaropretty new, so i don't think anybody has tried19:13
fungidebian experimental has 1.5119:14
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fungibut jessie is releasing with 1.4919:14
fungimy guess is the debian maintainer for it plans to put 1.51 in unstable once jessie releases, so it might appear in jessie-backports thereafter19:14
fungiubuntu seems to just be importing from debian on this one19:14
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jeblairso our options are: (a) stick with 2.9 for now, (b) ask ubuntu for newer bc backport, (c) install from maven and keep an eye on it ourselves, (d) switch to debian, (e) hold 2.10 until next ubuntu lts19:15
fungianyway, seems like it might be possible but would likely require some help19:15
anteaya#vote (a) and (b)19:15
fungi(d) implies also running packages from unstable or waiting for a backport there anyway19:15
zaromaybe c and wait until a is available?19:16
jeblairfungi: yeah, i'm assuming that the next lts would get the newer debian packport, but timing could slip19:16
fungii'd be okay with c transitioning to b19:16
clarkbfungi: ya I am happy with that too19:16
fungilike do it from maven and keep an eye on it while trying to get it into trusty-backports in a couple months from now19:16
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zaroi agree with fungi & clarkb19:17
fungie.g. once it ends up in debian/testing19:17
jeblairzaro, tchaypo: we don't have a packaging build infrastructure, so we can't build one ourselves (still has the same update problem anyway), and we can't use the gerritforge packages directly if we want to be able to apply local patches (we'd still need our build infra to do that)19:17
mordredI'm more in line with c transitioning to b19:17
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mrmartin+1 for setup a packaging team19:18
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SpamapSis it in vivid?19:18
tchaypoaren’t we working on that already?19:18
tchaypoSpamapS: no19:18
zarowhat's the process to get b?19:18
fungiSpamapS: nope, they're importing from debian and it looks like the maintainer is holding it in experimental until jessie releases19:18
SpamapSso have ot wait for 'w' to open19:18
mordredtchaypo: it's on the list - no work has been done towards it yet- largely due to needing to clear the current priority efforts first19:18
SpamapSyeah debian and ubuntu frozen at the same time always sucks. ;)19:18
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anteayalet's clarify that 2.9 is still an upgrade, since we are currently running 2.819:19
jeblair#agreed install bouncy castle for gerrit 2.10 from maven, and see about adding it to trusty-backports after it appears in debian unstable19:19
mordredjeblair: ++19:19
jeblairanyone disagree with that ^ ?19:19
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fungilooks like it's group-maintained by the debian-java team so it probably will end up in testing within the next couple months19:19
* fungi #agrees19:19
anteayait is more work, but it isn't me who will be doing it, so if that is what folks want19:19
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jeblairanteaya: zaro wrote the patch already, and it's less work than upgrading twice19:20
fungiinstalling gerrit 2.9 when 2.10 is tested working is more tech debt than keeping up with bc for a little while, in my opinion19:20
fungiso technically not less work19:20
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anteayaI thought we already had a 2.9 branch that was working19:21
anteayaand was just experimenting with 2.1019:21
tchaypothank you for the work, zaro and fungi19:21
jeblairzaro: any other gerrit 2.10 things we need to look into/prepare for?19:21
fungiwe do, but we're going to need to keep upgrading gerrit indefinitely, so installing 2.9 now is falling further behind the curve than we should probably aim for19:21
anteayafungi: fair enough19:21
fungigiven that we seem to get windows to upgrade gerrit only about every 6 months19:21
zarojeblair: i wanted to make sure replicsation still works, so maybe someone can help with the error i mentioned above.19:22
jeblairzaro: oh right19:22
zarohostkey error19:22
clarkbjeblair: I think you just need to have that host accept github's hostkey(s)19:22
clarkbzaro: ^19:22
zaroother than that, i think just need to fix LP integration.19:22
mordredyou know - we could probably put github's hostkey into puppet19:22
clarkbso start an ssh connection or use ssh-keyscan19:22
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mordredit's a known quantity - and we should probably know about it via puppet when it changes19:23
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jeblairzaro: can you accepting the host key and grab an infra-root if that still doesn't work?19:23
jeblairmordred: agreed, but i think we can make puppeting that be something outside the critical path for the gerrit upgrade19:23
mordredjeblair: ++19:23
jeblairzaro: what's broken with lp integration?19:24
zarojeblair: not sure what that means, but can follow up with an infra-root to flush out19:24
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zarojeblair: jeepyb says it doesn't know about change-owner19:24
fungizaro: yeah, i can help you after the meeting19:24
hashara bit late but o/   Hello19:24
zaroi thought that was fixed a while ago, but i see the error in the gerrit log19:24
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fungijeepyb's gerrit hook processing will just need a patch to accept that parameter if it exists but not depend on it existing19:25
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fungithere are a few others already in there, i can show you if necessary19:25
zaroanyways that LP issue is probably not a big deal.19:25
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zaronp, i've done that before (i think)19:25
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jeblaircool, thanks!19:26
jeblair#topic Schedule next project renames19:26
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*** openstack changes topic to "Schedule next project renames (Meeting topic: infra)"19:26
mordredjhesketh: I think you're joining EARLY19:26
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jheskethHeh (yay 5am)19:27
anteayagotta love it19:27
jeblairso there are 11 projects that want to rename, 10 non-attic ones19:27
jeblairall 10 are going from stackforge to openstack19:27
AJaeger_jeblair: don't approve more projects into the big tent in the tc ;)19:27
jeblairAJaeger_: i want to move all of them and then stop adding things to stackforge, but we'll talk about that some other time :)19:28
AJaeger_or shall we wait for more to come before changing?19:28
AJaeger_jeblair: that works as well...19:28
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jeblairAJaeger_: yeah, i think it's reasonable to try to batch them since we expect a lot19:29
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clarkbmy only two time contraints are I will be in seattle thursday not in front of a computer if doctor gives ok and I will be busy on the 25th and 26th19:29
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clarkbotherwise I can likely be around to help19:29
fungithis weekend is pretty bad for me. races on both saturday and sunday19:29
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* mordred has a todo list item to write an ansible playbook we can try to use for one of these renames ... has not done it yet19:30
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jeblairalso, we are in the RC phase... we should probably either do it this friday, or wait for the release.19:30
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mordredjeblair: I'm fine with this friday19:30
fungiyeah, i can do friday19:31
anteayaI'm around this friday19:31
zarowould it be appropriate to schedule the gerrit db migration with this?19:31
anteayabut not much help with renames19:31
jeblairso proposal: renames friday april 17 us afternoons, next renames (if needed) during the migration19:32
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jeblair"afternoon"; not plural19:32
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fungithe utf-8 table update? we'll need to time the database export/transform/import for this dataset since it's largeish. just so we know how much extra outage we'll need19:32
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anteayajeblair: I'm fine with your proposal19:33
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jeblairhas utf8 process been tested with production data?19:33
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clarkbjeblair: wfm19:33
zaroi believe it takes 1 hr for the process.19:33
zarothat's what i remember but can make sure if you like.19:33
fungizaro tested it on a copy of our production database and spot-checked the results, i think he said?19:33
zarofungi is correct19:34
fungii know i provided him with access to a copy of the db anyway and he made success noises a little while later19:34
jeblairdo we want to do that on friday, or wait for the upgrade for that?19:34
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jeblair(that would make friday a 1.5 hour outage)19:35
* jhesketh wonders what a success noise is... 19:35
* anteaya too19:35
anteayawait for upgrade19:35
zaroi prefer 2 seperate steps in case we need to debug errors19:35
fungii might be nice to have that done this week and baking for a few weeks prior to the upgrade, just so we can tell if one introduces a subtle problem and not have to untangle which it was19:35
zaroyeah, baking is the word19:36
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fungiraw bugs are so much less palatable than baked bugs19:37
* zaro is available fri19:37
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jeblair#agreed schedule a 2-hour outage for friday april 17 for project renames and utf8 conversion19:37
mordredif trove supports replication now - there is a cleverer way to do the operation without resorting to 1.5 hour downtime19:38
anteayafungi: I hear eating crickets are quite the thing19:38
fungimordred: i'm more of a fan of an announced and planned outage than a clever but untested alternative19:38
fungiwhich itself could turn into a lengthy unplanned outage ;)19:39
cineramasome of us ate bugs during the seattle meetup :)19:39
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mordredwhich involves turning on replication, doing a dump, loading the dump into a slave, stopping replication on the slave, performing the data transformation, turning replication back on so that it's caught up, and then the actual migration involves stopping incoming data to the master, letting teh slave lag become zero, and swap the two19:39
jeblairhow about 2200 utc for friday?19:39
* anteaya notes to avoid seattle meetups19:39
fungicinerama: i eat bugs constantly. the ocean here is full of them19:39
mordredI'm not saying we should do it right now19:39
fungi2200 sounds great19:39
anteayajeblair: I'm up19:39
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mordredbut we should, for future things, test such a process19:39
mordredso taht we can use it19:39
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mordredbecause it's the standard way to do long mysql transformations19:39
jeblair#action jeblair send announcement for april 17 2200 utc 2-hour outage for renames and utf8 conversion19:40
jeblairmordred: or we can try to never do a transform again :)19:40
fungii like the second plan19:40
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jeblairhave we scheduled a time for the 2.10 upgrade?19:40
mordredjeblair: sure. avoiding maintanence is always the best way to make sure the plan for maintanence is solid ;019:40
hashargood luck with utf-8 conversion :/19:40
anteayajeblair: just a date so far I think19:40
mordredhashar: thanks!19:40
clarkbjeblair: may 9th?19:41
hasharWikimedia Gerrit has been utf-8 since day 1 iirc19:41
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anteayajeblair: and I don't recall there has been an post to the ml yet19:41
anteayaclarkb: that is the date I am planning for19:41
jeblairmordred: okay, you have convinced me it is worthwhile for you to write up and test your alternative.  thank you.19:41
jeblairclarkb: yeah, i think we did decide on that date... did we pick a time?19:42
anteayaI don't recall a time19:42
clarkbneither do I19:42
clarkbI vote for >=9am PDT19:42
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fungiroughly how long do we think we need for the upgrade?19:42
anteayathat is 1600 utc or later, I believe19:43
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mordredjeblair: I shall add it to my list19:43
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* anteaya has no answer to fungi's question19:43
jeblairzaro: what do you think?19:44
zaro30 mins19:44
jeblairjust install the new stuff, and, what, run a reindex?19:44
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zaroopps reindex takes about 30mins19:45
fungiwell, keep in mind we need time for all the steps to be performed, and then to test it out to make sure it's sane, and then to _undo_ the upgrade and double-check it on the off-chance that something goes horribly wrong19:45
jeblairzaro: where are the steps?19:45
jeblairthere was an etherpad, right?19:45
zarolet me look19:45
zaroyikes it looks horrible: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/gerrit-2.9-upgrade19:46
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zaroopps refresh fixed it19:46
fungiso my guess, if the upgrade steps are 30 minutes and the reindex is 30 minutes that we need a bare minimum of 2 hours planned outage, and we should probably inflate that so we have breathing room19:46
jeblairi'm just guessing we need a reindex19:46
anteayafungi: +19:47
jeblairyep it's in the steps19:47
zaro2 hrs will be plenty.19:47
jeblairokay, so 4 hours in the announcement then :)19:47
zaroi have a script ready anways, #link https://github.com/zaro0508/gerrit-upgrade19:48
fungialways add the scotty factor19:48
jeblair#action jeblair send announcement for may 9 1600 utc 4-hour outage for 2.10 upgrade19:48
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fungiif you tell people 4 hours and have it done in 1, they'll be impressed. if you tell them 1 hour and take 2, they'll be annoyed19:48
tchaypono-one ever gets upset when you don’t use the scotty time19:48
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jeblair#topic Spec proposal - Integration tests for System-config Openstack_project using containers (fbo)19:49
*** openstack changes topic to "Spec proposal - Integration tests for System-config Openstack_project using containers (fbo) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:49
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fboHello, yes I submitted this spec do you already read it ?19:49
nibalizeri have not reivewed this spec19:50
* anteaya has not read the spec in question19:50
tristanCThe purpose of this specs/work is to be able to apply puppet modules in a test environment in order to check if services are properly configured19:50
fboThe idea is too improve integration test for openstack_project puppet module19:50
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nibalizer+1 on the idea19:50
nibalizeri need to review the implementation19:50
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jeblairyeah, it sounds pretty cool19:50
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yolanda+1 for the concept, yes19:50
clarkbI think we should do functional testing of the puppet modules first19:50
jeblairthe other thing we should keep in mind is the module splits we're doing19:50
clarkbit will be easier to get started and fix many bugs that will be easier t odebug in that env19:50
clarkbthen once we have that rolling work on integration testing19:50
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jeblairand that quite a bit of the openstack_project module will probably end up in the puppet-openstackci module19:51
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jeblairbut i don't think we settled on how to test puppet-openstackci yet19:51
anteayaI'm a fan of testing, how critical is the 'using containers' bit in the meeting agenda topic?19:51
tristanCclarkb: though the end goal is to have integration test like: does a gerrit change trigger a test and does zuul report properly for example19:51
asselin_fbo, http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/openstackci.html19:51
fboYes you are right ! that's the idea and after we can add more smoke tests to validate a deployment19:51
nibalizerso i banged on envassert, doesn't really seem like its for us19:51
nibalizersince its very tied to fabric19:51
anteayalike if we want to test with another non-container method, will that be considered?19:51
jeblairso maybe the same thing applies, but possibly just with a different module19:51
clarkbtristanC: yes I just think getting there now is harder than the other thing19:52
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clarkbtristanC: and it will be far more benefiicial in the near term and long term to do the functional testing soon19:52
nibalizerand we'd probably prefer to build that kind of testing out of ansible than fabric19:52
jeblairanteaya: i think it's a reasonable way to get a number of services installed on one host; i don't necessarily think we need to have 6 nodes spun up for one test19:52
mordredyah - expecially since the plan is to use ansible to deploy our servers with puppet19:52
mordredhaving the integration tests not do that seems like the wrong direction19:52
anteayajeblair: that is fair, just wondering how integral that point is to the spec19:53
anteayasounds like it is a large part19:53
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fboOne other main benefit of that spec is it will force us to remove more hardcoded values in manifests19:53
jeblairfbo: okay, it sounds like we generally think it's a good idea, we need to get into detials on spec review, and we also need to look at how it fits in with other methods of puppet testing19:54
fungiyep, no immediate objections19:54
fboSo making openstack_project module more reusable by allowing other wanting to build a CI19:54
yolanda+1 on that19:54
clarkbI really want to see functional testing with envassert first19:54
fungiif it comes with someone willing to work on implementation, all the better ;)19:54
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anteayafbo: well the openstack_project module is designed to be not reusable19:55
clarkbwe should learn from openstack and do this correctly19:55
jeblairfbo: make sure you've read http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/openstackci.html19:55
nibalizeranteaya: ++19:55
AJaeger_jeblair: regarding infra-manual: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/138595/ is waiting for a final approval for some time - others wanted you to have a chance to review it.19:55
jeblairfbo: because that's where we're going, so we'll want to incorporate your ideas with that19:55
anteayafbo: that was the effort of splitting all the modules out of it in january19:55
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AJaeger_jeblair: oops, wrong channel. Sorry!19:55
nibalizerevaluating success of the puppet run is harder than picking a virt tech to run puppet on19:55
fungiclarkb: you disagree with nibalizer's analysis of envassert, or you just mean functional testing of individual modules in general?19:56
jeblairclarkb: yeah, though it sounds like we need a followup conversation to figure out how to do that19:56
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anteayafbo: please spend some time with asselin_ and nibalizer19:56
clarkbfungi: in general19:56
clarkbwe don't have to use envassert19:56
fboOk so let's discuss more about the details via gerrit comments ?19:56
clarkbbut asselin_ bsically has functional testing already19:56
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anteayafbo: would be great to have your efforts with theirs19:56
fbook I'll do that !19:56
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clarkband I would hate to see that owrk die while we spin our wheels doing integration testing that would be easier if we just had functioanl tests first19:56
fbonice glad you appreciate the idea19:56
anteayafbo: testing is good19:57
fungisounds like we should do both, and just need to work out prioritization then19:57
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mordredclarkb: I do not understand why envassert is important19:57
anteayafbo: just sync up with ongoing puppet efforts19:57
clarkbmordred: its not19:57
mordredbut we can take that out of meeting19:57
mordredclarkb: awesome19:57
clarkbmordred: functioanl testing is important19:57
jeblairclarkb, fbo: yeah, let's look at both.  we may end up needing to do similar things to determine success anyway19:57
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jeblairfbo: okay, thanks!19:57
jeblair#topic Antoine "hashar" Musso (can not attend)19:58
*** openstack changes topic to "Antoine "hashar" Musso (can not attend) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:58
jeblairhashar has his own topic! :)19:58
hasharactually around :)19:58
hasharwill be short19:58
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mordredI approve of hashar19:58
tchaypohashar lies in the topic! ;)19:58
hasharwe are going to deploy Nodepool on Debian/Jessie19:58
hasharand at wikimedia we use debian packages so I am packaging nodepool \o/19:58
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jeblairthat's wonderful!  and terrifying! : )19:58
hasharwe have a bunch of debian developers internally so that helps19:58
hasharthat said I noticed a change in nodepool that change one of the requirement ( https://review.openstack.org/#/c/170289/ )19:59
jeblairi can tag nodepool19:59
hasharcould use a new tag19:59
hasharand I am not sure what is the usual policy when people change requirements.txt files19:59
jeblairhashar: do you need zuul tagged too?19:59
jeblairhashar: i'm not sure i've tagged it in a very, very, very, long time19:59
hashara zuul minor tag would be nice as well19:59
mordredhashar: you are aware of the upcoming shade patches for nodepool, yeah?19:59
fungiyeah, the nodepool 0.0.1 tag is pretty ancient19:59
hasharmordred: what is it ?20:00
fungiwe should also tag a few other things, bit no need to take up meeting time on those20:00
hasharyeah we can follow on list20:00
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hasharI am going to package zuul for debian/jessie as well :)20:00
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jeblairhashar: thanks, as always!20:00
jeblairand thanks everyone else20:00
jeblairmaybe next meeting, we'll talk about our priority efforts :)20:00
hasharso if you guys could tag zuul/nodepool before huge changes land in. That would be nice :)20:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr 14 20:01:01 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-04-14-19.00.html20:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-04-14-19.00.txt20:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-04-14-19.00.log.html20:01
hasharjust in time thanks!20:01
jeblairttx: o/20:01
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* annegentle waves20:01
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thingeejgriffith: it's a wiki. you're welcome to improve.20:01
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ttxannegentle, mordred, vishy, jaypipes : around ?20:02
ttx#startmeeting tc20:03
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr 14 20:03:05 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"20:03
annegentle\o/ on tippie toes20:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'20:03
ttxOur agenda for today:20:03
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee20:03
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ttx#topic Asking permission to dedicate the Kilo release to the memory of Chris Yeoh20:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Asking permission to dedicate the Kilo release to the memory of Chris Yeoh (Meeting topic: tc)"20:03
ttxSo... In the release announcement I was personally planning to dedicate the Kilo release to the memory of Chris (something like "I'd like to dedicate...")20:03
ttxBut if the Technical Committee agrees, we can formally dedicate this release (and therefore use "the Kilo release is dedicated to..." in announcement *and* release notes)20:03
mikalI would like to see this happen20:04
ttxHow does that sound ?20:04
sdaguettx: +120:04
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annegentlesounds great20:04
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* jhesketh likes this as an onlooker 20:04
* dansmith does too20:04
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sdaguettx: probably worth a roll call vote just to make it official and in the minutes20:04
ttxThat will probably let the Foundation staff prepare somethign on the website too20:04
ttxok, startvoting20:05
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* rockyg likes it though I can't vote20:05
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jeblairttx: ++20:05
ttx#startvote Should the Kilo release be dedicated to the memory of Chris Yeoh? Yes, No, Abstain20:05
openstackBegin voting on: Should the Kilo release be dedicated to the memory of Chris Yeoh? Valid vote options are Yes, No, Abstain.20:05
openstackVote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.20:05
russellb#vote yes20:05
mordred#vote yes20:05
mikal#vote yes20:05
dhellmann#vote yes20:05
markmcclain#vote yes20:05
sdague#vote Yes20:05
jeblair#vote yes20:05
annegentle#vote Yes20:05
jgriffith#vote yes20:05
ttx#vote Yes20:05
* ttx hopes the vote system is case-sensitive20:05
ttxinsensitive I mean20:06
mordred#vote Yes20:06
sdaguewe'll find out in an minute20:06
devananda#vote yes20:06
ttxok 30 more seconds20:06
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openstackVoted on "Should the Kilo release be dedicated to the memory of Chris Yeoh?" Results are20:07
openstackYes (11): ttx, devananda, annegentle, jeblair, russellb, sdague, jgriffith, mikal, mordred, dhellmann, markmcclain20:07
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ttxawesome, the vote bot is with us20:07
jgriffithyay vote-bot20:07
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ttxAwesome, thanks everyone20:07
ttx#topic Adding Mistral Workflow Service to OpenStack20:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Adding Mistral Workflow Service to OpenStack (Meeting topic: tc)"20:07
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/17022520:07
ttxI think... it fits the requirements.20:08
ttxMy only gripe was about the fragility due to a low bus factor, but that is certainly better described as a team tag (team:bus-factor ?)20:08
ttxThoughts ?20:08
sdagueI like bus-factor as a tag :)20:08
* jgriffith is sitting this one out as he doesn't quite get the project20:08
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russellbyeah, i had been meaning to define something around team size ... haven't gotten to it yet20:08
sdagueso, wasn't there also some recent ML thread about the fact that this and murano can't coexist on the same box20:08
sdagueeven though they are supposed to use each other?20:09
mikalCan we avoid the term bus-factor?20:09
rakhmerovhi everyone. I'm a PTL of Mistral and you can ask me questions if you have20:09
* anteaya wonders why we need a yaml based language when we have yaml20:09
ttxjgriffith: I'd describe it as a basic openstack client programming language20:09
ttxcombined with a cron20:09
jgriffithttx: so I should clarify... I'm struggling to see the point :)20:09
jgriffithttx: errr... value20:10
mordredso - I'm +120:10
mordredbecause there are people who like it20:10
mordredand it doesn't hurt anything20:10
ttxmordred: right20:10
mordredand I don't see any reason to deny it entry20:10
devanandais this (just) a service to run taskflow-as-a-service ?20:10
sdaguejgriffith: so, same, but I'd still be +1, because apparently someone wants it20:10
jgriffithmordred: haha... yeah, I forget the low bar :)20:10
russellbi just posted the team diversity info to the review if anyone is interested20:10
mordredjgriffith: I'm just trying to remind everyone :)20:10
devanandarussellb: thanks, looking20:10
dhellmannhow is this different from heat's similar template thing?20:10
* jgriffith refrains from smart a$$ comments20:10
rakhmerovdevananda, no, it's not taskflow-as-a-service20:10
mordreddhellmann: does it matter? we want to encourage competition I hear20:11
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zanebanteaya: because YAML doesn't describe how to run workflow, therefore you'll always need some way of interpreting the YAML20:11
dhellmannmordred: no, I'm just curious20:11
ttxI think the Amazonomorphy for it would be Amazon SWF20:11
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ttxBut then they have so many services :)20:11
russellbit's complementary to Heat IMO20:11
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russellbHeat might trigger a workflow defined in Mistral in response to some condition it's watching20:12
dhellmannah, cool20:12
ttxYes, I spent some time looking into it and it feels complementary20:12
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mordredI have heard people say the thing russellb said20:12
zaneband also vice-versa20:12
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mikalSo, what's a sample use case?20:13
ttxThey also are unquestionably an OpenStack project20:13
zanebso, e.g. Ceilometer alarm triggers a workflow, part of which may be hitting the autoscaling trigger in Heat20:13
mikalThat might make this clearer for people\20:13
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ttxmikal: they have plenty of use cases described on their wiki page20:13
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jeblairsdague: it seems like they plan on fixing that during liberty cycle20:14
zanebmikal: one I've heard a lot is: define a workflow that creates a Heat stack, uses the server in it to build an image, upload the image to Glance, then delete the stack again to free resources20:14
sdaguejeblair: yeh, I'm +1, but I thought it was worth recording20:14
jeblairsdague: hopefully they'll adopt g-r...?20:15
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annegentlemikal: running payroll change jobs quarterly or at bonus time in your OpenStack cloud20:15
mikalannegentle: so, that's what I thought it was, but the wiki page doesn't seem to include those soprts of examples?20:15
dhellmannjeblair: do we actually have adopting g-r as a requirement now?20:15
mikalannegentle: I was actually thiking video transcode for example20:15
ttxI see some value in it, and more importantly I don't see any drawback to having it20:15
jgriffithOk... fair enough I suppose20:15
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zanebthe way I always put it is: Heat models nouns, Mistral models verbs. Both are important, and complementary :)20:16
jeblairdhellmann: i don't think we do, but it seems like maybe they might want to20:16
dhellmannmikal: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Mistral#Tasks_Scheduling_-_Cloud_Cron20:16
ttxGetting some network lag, so please proceed if I suddenly disappear20:16
dhellmannjeblair: yeah20:16
devanandadhellmann: I don't think it's a requirement to be in the tent, but it probably is from a release perspective20:16
* dhellmann waits for someone to propose a tag...20:16
jeblairdhellmann: "Project must have no library dependencies which effectively restrict how the project may be distributed or deployed"  that's the only thing mentioned as a requirement20:17
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ttxWe have 8 YES at this point20:17
dhellmannjeblair: yeah, and I think that's really about the GPL, not g-r20:17
jeblairdhellmann: i think reading that to mean g-r would be an... expansive... reading of it... :)20:17
devanandattx: 920:17
ttxI'll let the discussion continue for a bit but it already has enough for acceptance20:17
sdaguedhellmann: honestly, it was mostly just a coordination issue between mistral and murano20:17
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dhellmannsdague: yeah20:17
sdaguedhellmann: yes, it's about (A)GPL20:18
sdaguebecause we ran into that rstlib issue20:18
sdaguereally late in grizzly20:18
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mordredthat was so much fun20:19
ttxreally really late20:19
annegentleI think we need to acknowledge that increased integration actually hurts.20:19
rakhmerovas far as Murano and Mistral compatibility, it's being solved now and will be solved in 1-2 days20:20
ttxOK, time to close it, unless someone has a definitive argument that (s)he thinks can sway voters completely20:20
markmcclainrakhmerov: cool20:20
dhellmannrakhmerov: ++20:20
sdaguettx: moar rubber stamp!20:20
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ttxjgriffith: more than "doesn't hurt" the philosophy is "it's already an openstack project"20:20
jgriffithttx: point taken20:21
ttxrakhmerov: welcome20:21
ttx#topic More Defcore process discussion20:21
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zehicle_#link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/defcore/tree/process/2015A.rst20:22
* rockyg waves from behind zehicle20:22
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zehicle_mainly here to collect feedback and answer questions20:23
ttx#link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/defcore/tree/process/2015A.rst20:23
ttxLast week we postponed the discussion until everyone had a chance to look into the proposed process20:23
russellb"A3. PTLs Recommend Changes to Designated Sections"20:23
ttxPersonally I thought it was disconnected from the bylaws requirements (to build on top of the "tc-approved release")20:23
ttxAnd therefore I proposed the addition of wording to cover that, and it got merged:20:23
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/17241720:23
ttxI don't have objections left20:23
ttxBut you may have20:23
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ttxzehicle: you around?20:23
hogepodgettx I'm here, and can try to answer any questions.20:23
ttxwow, we seem to have weird lag with the bot too20:23
hogepodgeI'm secretary to the committee, but obvs not on the board (and it's a board committee)20:23
russellbI don't think the tech community should have to be responsible for defining that20:24
zehicle_ttx, yes20:24
russellbthat's what we spent lots of time going through last cycle20:24
russellband declined to define20:24
dhellmannzehicle_: looking at the timing, I wonder if we'll have tests for all of the capabilities 3 months before the summit (in time to start the preliminary draft) -- I honestly don't know if we're stable enough at that point. How did that work out this cycle?20:24
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ttxzehicle: don't we essentially rather recommend changes to Capabilities than Designated Sections ?20:25
ttx(we as PTLs)20:25
zehicle_the goal for DefCore is to be trailing.  not having tests would be a reason to exclude it from consideration20:25
russellbbasically, I think the TC and/or PTLs should be outside of this as much as possible20:25
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zehicle_the point is to pick up things that are stable and adopted20:25
russellbwith the only exception being defining the TC approved release20:25
jgriffithCrazy idea... runs the tempest tests same as in gate... done20:25
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ttxrussellb: the way I understand it was inside a project, designated sections can be updated with PTLs opinion20:25
zehicle_russellb, that's fine and we've tried to make it like that.  still would like to have you either approve or agree to wave from sidelines20:26
dhellmannzehicle_: so no new features of kilo would be included until a later release?20:26
sdaguedhellmann: the tests today are a pretty small subset of what's in tempest, so I think it's fine. Honestly if something's not getting tested 3 months before release, it's probably not a feature you want to stamp for trademark20:26
ttxdifferent from TC listing projects from above20:26
zehicle_dhellmann, yes, by definition20:26
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dhellmannzehicle_: ok, thanks20:26
russellbi don't think we should have to agree or approve to using a subset of the code20:26
russellbwould it be better to submit a patch with my justification in commit message?20:26
zehicle_dhellmann, in fact, we intentionally took out the release timing from the process.  it's date specs now20:26
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rockygsdague: ++20:27
dhellmannrussellb: that's the PTLs, right? not the TC?20:27
zehicle_russellb, patches strongly encouraged.20:27
zehicle_but want to be available to answer questions interactively too20:27
russellbdhellmann: "we" as the technical community / technical leadership more generally20:27
zehicle_since we want to conclude discussions before we meet f2f in vancouver20:27
dhellmannzehicle_: makes sense, I was thinking we were trying to handle features for release X on this schedule, but it's really at most X-120:27
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zehicle_dhellmann, yes.20:28
rockygdhellmann: yes20:28
mordredsdague: ++20:28
annegentlezehicle_: there was a dependency question I had, let me see if I can articulate20:28
dhellmannzehicle_: that might be clarified elsewhere, but if not maybe add a note?20:28
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zehicle_the basic idea is to collect changes & new stuff 3 mos leading up to summits and then have user/vendor review for 3 months after20:28
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dhellmannzehicle_: I guess I was thrown off by the schedule being based on the summit, but I'll admit to reading this for the first time about an hour ago20:29
sdagueremember the trigger point here isn't the leading edge either, it's not like having more features in newer openstack takes away your trademark20:29
annegentlezehicle_: (mikal too probably knows)20:29
rockygnew stuff = stuff that isn't currently in Defcore that lots of folks are using20:29
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zehicle_annegentle, we found places where we had to choose an order of presentation - either way left you having to read ahead to get an asnwer20:29
annegentlezehicle_: if nova tests don't use image v2 api but it's a requirement of defcore, where do I find those tests to test that?20:29
anteayazehicle_: might sound silly, but I'd like a defintion of the terms used in the Lead By table at the top, particularly Community20:29
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zehicle_anteaya, we do have a lexicon in the repo20:30
devanandazehicle_: so in ~August, you would start looking at what was released in Kilo and, if certain features already had wide adoption, possibly propose those changes to the community in November20:31
anteayazehicle_: I don't see an entry for Community: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/defcore/tree/lexicon.rst though perhaps that is where it should go20:31
zehicle_devananda, we'd look at the project as a whole.  new features would be included in that20:31
devanandazehicle_: sorry, that should have ended with a ?20:31
devanandazehicle_: ok, gotcha20:31
zehicle_anteaya, please add!20:31
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mikalannegentle: I think there is an assumption that defcore will provide tempest tests where they are missing20:31
rockygannegentle: the tests are all listed in a json file, and categorized, so you look for the image v2 category20:31
anteayazehicle_: I don't know what should go there20:31
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mikalannegentle: that's certainly what they've said to me in the past20:32
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annegentlemikal: ok20:32
* ttx can testify the process to get changes in is rather straightforward :)20:32
vishysorry i’m late20:32
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zehicle_mikal, no - defcore does not provide tests.  we're limited to what;s there20:32
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zehicle_we are currently discussion how to take tempests that are outside of tempest too20:32
russellbyeah, i'll just post my feedback as a patch, i think that'll be easier20:32
zehicle_that's likely a hot topic post Vancouver20:32
mikalzehicle_: you have told me in the past that defcore would increase the level of tempest coverage. How can this be true if no tests are added?20:32
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zehicle_russellb, +120:32
zanebzehicle_: yeah, that's going to be important20:33
rockygmikal: so if there are no image v2 tests, then that feature would be excluded from the current defcore definition20:33
hogepodgemikal add tests to tempest or elsewhere20:33
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zehicle_mikal, we are creating _incentives_ to increase tests20:33
devanandazehicle_: this may be somewhat off topic, so feel free to table it if that's the case: how does moving tempest coverage into each projects' repo affect all this?20:33
zehicle_we are not a technical group that can create tests - that's the community20:33
mikalSo, what happens when nova removes a tempest test because the devs no longer care for it?20:33
mikalBut its used in defcore?20:33
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devanandamikal: right. that's what I was about to ask20:33
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annegentlerockyg: I think it's that the compute test can't know what glance api it's using20:33
hogepodgemikal: I've done that with keystone so we can add identity to the defcore capablities.20:33
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zehicle_devananda, we've been watching that and it's part of our discussion.  the process is worded so that TEMPEST is not required20:33
devanandamikal, zehicle_: with the move to putting the test in each project's tree, we're delegating the responsibility to keep track of what tests defcore relies on to more people20:34
zehicle_in fact, the board approves at the capability level.20:34
zehicle_devananda, perhaps.20:34
mikalSo this happened the other day right?20:34
devanandawhich also means more people who may not be tracking exactly what tests they shouldn't change / delete20:34
mikalThe EC2 people wanted to remove a test as being silly, and we just had a quick chat on the dev list about it20:34
dhellmannmikal, devananda : if the tests are uniquely identified, we could possibly have a test that compares those ids with the defcore set and complains if the test is removed20:35
mikalWe'd now have to check with the board before we did anything like that?20:35
mikalJust in case its used by defcore?20:35
zehicle_devananda, true but there are more people consuming the tests against the guideline, so we're likely to find conflicts quickly20:35
zehicle_mikal, no - that's covered in the process.20:35
dhellmannzehicle_: I'll bet you a beer we can delete them faster than you'll spot them20:35
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anteayazehicle_: #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/173510/1 best I have right now20:35
* devananda thinks dhellmann will win that20:35
zehicle_dhellmann, I'll buy you a beer if you can add them fater20:35
rockygannegentle: if there is a problem with the defined tests, the vendors/community can contest them with their reasons why20:35
dhellmannzehicle_: :-)20:36
dhellmannrockyg: the problem is that after the test is removed, it's too late to say "no, no, put that back!"20:36
dhellmannwhatever code that test was checking might have changed in a way that the test would no longer pass20:36
zehicle_dhellmann, if you remove it, then it's for a reason.  we'll code20:36
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zehicle_grrr.  we'll cope20:36
annegentlehogepodge: is this the test list? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/167620/1/2015.03/2015.03.required.txt20:37
sdaguehonestly, the tests that were added to the defcore list were limitted for a reason, as they really are the least likely to hit this as well20:37
rockygdhellmann: not if the test was already identified.  Since Defcore is trailing, and the test has been identified, it has at a minimum, a SHA that will always find it20:37
dhellmannzehicle_: sure. I think the real question is, how can we minimize friction on both sides of the question, though20:37
sdagueI think this is an edge condition that 1 test per cycle might hit20:37
sdagueat the most20:37
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sdagueand, even that's kind of doubtful20:37
devanandazehicle_: is it reasonable to ask defcore team to provide a patch to the tests themselves that indicates they are used for defcore?20:37
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hogepodgeannegentle: that's a filtered list of required tests based on the defcore list. It's meant to be fed directly to tempest to help run the tests.20:37
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dhellmannsdague: it sounds like we've already had a case though, with the ec2 stuff mikal mentioned20:37
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sdaguedhellmann: ec2 wasn't in the defcore list20:38
zehicle_these are issues that will get resolved over time - anything that uses REAL TEST will have age issue.  I'd rather have real tests20:38
dhellmannsdague: ok, then I'm confused by mikal's comment20:38
ttxok, we need to timebox this20:38
sdagueit in no way triggered anything anyone is worried about20:38
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rockygdevananda: defcore is attaching labels to tests identified by defcore20:38
annegentlehogepodge: ok thanks20:38
devanandarockyg: perfect. then I think it's fine20:38
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sdaguealso, hogepodge is hanging out in #openstack-qa all the time and chatting with mtreinish a lot20:38
ttxIf you have concerns with the wording, propose patches. If you have concerns about the process, maybe raise a thread on the defcore list20:38
zehicle_devananda, we're putting them into a json file.  I'm sure there's a way to automate the xref.20:38
mikaldhellmann: it was just an example20:38
mtreinishuh oh, my name popped up in a tc meeting20:38
dhellmannmikal: ok, I read too much into it20:39
sdaguethere is lots of communication there now, so I am pretty confident it will be figured out reasonably20:39
mikalSo, I'm actually not fussed20:39
ttxsdague: yes, they seem to make a lot of progress lately20:39
mikalIf the agreement is that defcore will work out what to do when we change a tempest test to not meet their needs any more, then I am happy20:39
zehicle_the process is more broad than the tests - happy to keep going on tests specifically; however, I wanted to make sure that the doc as a whole is considered20:39
devanandazehicle_: it sounds like rockyg is already on that. a test label (decorator) in the projects is the best way, IMO, to communicate to developers that "this test is relied upon by defcore"20:39
mikalBecause when / if they complain in the future, I can point back here20:39
ttxmikal: heh20:40
zehicle_devananda, not objecting.  not owning at this point either20:40
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hogepodgemikal: we have a procedure for flagging tests in the current list, so we have a process for handling problems in flight.20:40
devanandazehicle_: as for the rest of that process doc, I haven't sat with it enough to digest the whole thing, but nothing else has jumped out at me yet20:40
ttxPSA: 5 more minutes and we'll move on20:40
zehicle_mikal, if tempest met our needs today then I'd be a peace.  it's not so your changes will hopefully improve things20:41
hogepodgemikal: like a test changes name, or breaks, for example.20:41
zehicle_either way, we are already tracking moving tests out of tempest and discussing20:41
mtreinishmikal: also, that's part of the removal procedure for tempest, if it's important to defcore or someone else we don't remove it20:41
rockygdevananda: what hogpodge says.  He's got the reviews for this stuff.  I'll try and find the label one for you...20:41
sdagueyeh, I honestly think the nuts and bolts have actually been pretty well sorted by hogepodge and mtreinish. And if there is a big explody somewhere, which I highly doubt, we can deal with it as an exception.20:42
zehicle_we're talking on one point (tests) - please make sure that you read the doc as a larger whole too.20:42
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ttxsdague: ++20:42
annegentlezehicle_: I'll be honest. I feel like it's another case of "commons" work that no one wants to own but everyone wants "the community" to do. There's also hand-waving after A6 -- how do missing get added?20:43
dhellmannsdague, mtreinish : sounds good -- I didn't realize you'd already been working on this.20:43
devanandazehicle_: any thoughts on the process when defcore + TC does not include any representative of a project to which the trademark is applied?20:43
devanandaI dont think that's happened yet20:43
devanandabut wondering if folks have thought about it20:43
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devananda*direct representative20:43
ttxdevananda: the TC is not part of the process beyong the tc-approved release20:43
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ttxeverythign else mentions PTL, no ?20:43
zehicle_annegentle, I think the "communitiy" has a pretty strong, "we write and demand tests" mantra.20:44
annegentlezehicle_: I've read, re-read, gave input on the PTL portion and appreciate you adding. Just have to give that additional bit of process input.20:44
zehicle_annegentle, but I'm inclined to agree we need to watch out for commons will do it20:44
annegentlezehicle_: we do have to try and see.20:44
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zehicle_annegentle, my hope is that DefCore gives vendors incentive to add tests.20:44
ttxOK, we need to move on...20:44
ttxThanks zehicle!20:44
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zehicle_thanks everyone.  happy to answer questions on the DefCore list or 1x1 too20:45
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ttx#topic Avoid "policy" in Congress description20:45
*** openstack changes topic to "Avoid "policy" in Congress description (Meeting topic: tc)"20:45
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/16948020:45
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ttxLooks like we need to bikeshed a bit to make progress there20:45
ttxBut we don't have that much time left in meeting to play20:45
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ttxjeblair, annegentle: could you discuss offline and come up with something that pleases you both ?20:45
ttxAs long as it doesn't use policy I'm fine with it.20:46
ttxor "project"20:46
ttxor "core"20:46
sdagueor middleware20:46
jeblairttx: sure20:46
jeblairi don't actually care, just wanted to have something to bikeshed on20:46
jeblairi'll roll the dice again and see what comes up :)20:47
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* rockyg thinks they should avoid community as well;)20:47
annegentlesure - jeblair I just want a shorter service name so it can be written in a doc20:47
ttx#topic Cross-project track at the Design Summit20:47
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ttxWe have a number of proposals at:20:47
ttx#link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vCTZBJKCMZ2xBhglnuK3ciKo3E8UMFo5S5lmIAYMCSE/edit?usp=sharing20:47
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ttxI'll include dhellmann and annegentle who volunteered from the TC as editors on that doc. Everyone else can add comments20:48
devanandattx: is this spreadsheet the appropriate place to make such proposals?20:48
ttxno, that' sthe result sheet.20:48
jeblairttx: i can't seem to edit that20:48
ttxThe way to add is through the foirm20:48
dhellmann#link submit a session proposal http://goo.gl/forms/S69HM6XEeb20:48
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russellbha @ nova and neutron "hug it out"20:48
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ttxAll links were posted to ML and https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Design_Summit/Planning20:48
mikalrussellb: heh, that's not going to take 50 minutes20:49
ttxthe link dhellmann posted is to add an entry, and anyone can20:49
* mestery is ready to hug20:49
sdagueyeh, I need to add a couple here20:49
annegentleheh extended hugs session20:49
ttxThe question at this point is more.. what is missing20:49
russellbmikal: unless it was also used as the place to have the "next steps" conversation20:49
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sdagueWe really need to have a Service Catalog Standards conversation20:49
annegentledocs are in, that's all I care about (kidding)20:49
ttxThere will be a discussion at the meeting next about it20:49
* mikal will hug mestery, but it wont help20:49
annegentlesdague: yes20:49
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mordredmikal: I will throw chickens at you two while you hug20:50
mordredsdague: ++20:50
sdaguethe js one I'm not sure fits for cross project20:50
russellbmestery: mikal planning to have a session in nova or neutron track on next steps?20:50
ttxAt this point the goal is to collect as many ideas as possible, we'll merge and select them later (probably end of month)20:50
mikalrussellb: so I feel that the L Nova PTL does need to sit down with mestery and come up with a plan for what to do about this at the summit20:50
mikalrussellb: but I think that can't be done until next week20:50
mesterymikal: ++20:50
russellbi like what we did a couple cycles ago, the gap analysis action plan20:51
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ttxmikal/russellb/mestery: there is one time slot where neutron doesn't have anything and nova has a slot, ftr20:51
russellbsounds like it's time to have another detailed action plan like that20:51
devanandamikal: we should also talk about nova + ironic (and other clustered hypervisors). do you feel that's better in the nova track, though?20:51
mikalWell, I think we need to include actual operators more this time, I think that's where we missed last time20:51
russellbthe last one got us much closer20:51
mesteryttx; I'm hoping to use taht one as the track :)20:51
mesterymikal: ++20:51
mikaldevananda: I think that's a nova track thing20:51
devanandamikal: ack20:52
sdaguettx: can you get the Cloud Service Federation people to explain more? That is terribly vague to me20:52
mordredmikal, devananda: I'd like to lurk/heckle that one20:52
dhellmanndevananda, mikal : yeah, in the past we've said that cross-project needs to mean more than 2 projects20:52
ttxsdague: I stopped readin at "supply chain"20:52
mikalmordred: you're welcome to20:52
mordredsdague: its about Federating your Cloud Service20:52
mordredmikal: awesome!20:52
sdaguemordred: so... stackforge/os-policy-core-middleware is it?20:52
dougwigsdague:  /core/maintainer/20:53
devanandadhellmann: so physical network support will involve ironic + nova + neutron. I'll toss that one on the form20:53
dhellmannsdague: stackforge/python-os-policy-core-middleware20:53
mordredsdague: stackforge/python-os-policy-core-middleware-tenant20:53
dhellmanndevananda: ok. That might still just fall under team-specific integration, vs. "how should openstack approach problems generally"20:53
ttxsdague: could you add a comment on that cell saying it's vague ? I'll reach out to them20:53
sdaguettx: I don't have edit perms20:54
ttxYou have comment perms trough20:54
dhellmannsdague: added as a comment20:54
sdagueah, ok20:54
ttxor at least you should have20:54
dhellmannoops, s/added/add it/20:54
devanandasdague: I'd love to see a session on "how all the projects should be testing in the big tent" - though honestly, that probably should be a presentation, not a discussion :)20:54
anteayadoes anyone want to have a session on how hard it is to deploy openstack for small deployments?20:54
ttxsdague: I'm fine with adding you as editor if you pledge your firstborn and some of your time at the end of the month to the cause20:54
dhellmannanteaya: that sounds like an ops summit session?20:54
russellbor fuel, or tripleo, or ...20:55
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sdaguettx: well, I won't give up my first born, but you can have some time20:55
ttxsdague: wait until you have to and you'll beg me to take them20:55
ttxOK, we need to move on20:56
jogowhat are the criteria for a session being picked?20:56
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ttxjogo: needs to be cross-project, and needs to be a problem the TC thinks is worth the time20:56
sdaguejogo: they look like they will be helpful to solving real problems in OpenStack, and involve > 2 projects20:56
ttxmuch like how PTLs select sessions for their own track20:57
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ttxok, moving on quickly20:57
jogoshouldn't these also be things that we have not been able to resolve on the ML already as well?20:57
russellbfwiw i think 2 project sessions should be considered fair game20:57
russellbjust lower priority20:57
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ttxjogo: right, worth the F2F time20:57
devanandajogo: it sounds like some folks are pushing those towards individual project tracks20:57
ttx#topic Projects list housekeeping20:57
*** openstack changes topic to "Projects list housekeeping (Meeting topic: tc)"20:57
sdaguerussellb: yeh, honestly, I'd make an exception for the nova/neutron path forward thing because it's one of the top ops blockers20:57
russellblast time i think some 2 project sessions would have been better uses of time20:57
stevebakeris it too early to be having sessions about defining and assigning tags to projects?20:57
russellbsdague: that's the main one i had in mind :)20:57
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ttxstevebaker: you can propose it. Not too early20:58
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ttxTwo repository additions that have their PTL's +1 already. Will approve tomorrow unless someone -1s by then:20:58
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ttx* Add devstack-vagrant to QA (https://review.openstack.org/171677)20:58
ttx* Add openstack-dev/specs-cookiecutter (https://review.openstack.org/170946)20:58
ttx#topic Open discussion20:58
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)"20:58
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ttxWe can continue brainstorming topics in the remaining 2 min20:58
ttxAny other topic / question ?20:59
markmcclainI'll be off the grid Apr 17-28th20:59
ttxEarly questions on the Puppet/OpenStack and MagnetoDB applications ?20:59
jogoI took a look at http://governance.openstack.org/reference/tags/index.html recently20:59
jogoand tags are hard to use for downstream folks20:59
anteayattx are we also going to allow in salt/chef/ansible because where puppet goes they all follow20:59
jogohow do I find a set of projects that have the following tags etc.20:59
ttxjogo: openstack.org/software is supposed to be overhauled21:00
jeblairttx: looks like the name is the biggest hurdle is what to name the openstack puppet "project"21:00
ttxjogo: and provide search/navigation21:00
jogottx: that will include tags?21:00
ttxjogo: yes21:00
russellbwe should have someone design badges for each tag21:00
russellbthat would make the web site fun, heh21:00
sdaguejeblair: borkbork is alway an option21:00
ttxjogo: you're free to come up with your own viz though if you don't like that idea21:01
devanandarussellb: i read that as "have someone design badgers"21:01
mikalI would wear a "single point of failure" badge to the summit21:01
jogottx: ahh, will that page end up linking back to governance/tags etc?21:01
devanandawhich I like more than badges21:01
jeblairrusselb: and keep a graphic designer in business21:01
russellbdevananda: sure, that too!21:01
annegentleSPOF tshirts21:01
jeblairsdague: ++!21:01
russellbjeblair: right, and that's always a nice thing21:01
ttxjogo: should do yes21:01
ttxand.. we are out of time21:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr 14 21:01:34 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:01
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openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-04-14-20.03.html21:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-04-14-20.03.txt21:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-04-14-20.03.log.html21:01
mordredsdague: ++21:01
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dhellmannttx: do you have your courtesy ping list handy for the cross-project meeting?21:01
dhellmann#startmeeting crossproject21:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr 14 21:02:04 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is dhellmann. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'crossproject'21:02
ttxcourtesy PTL ping: devananda, dhellmann, morganfainberg, notmyname, eglynn, nikhil_k, thingee, asalkeld, david-lyle, mestery, SlickNik, SergeyLukjanov, mikal: around ?21:02
mesteryo/ even21:02
dhellmannttx: thanks21:02
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ttxI'll be around, watching swift patches in gate21:02
dhellmanncool, let's get started21:03
dhellmann#topic Any Kilo release red flags ?21:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Any Kilo release red flags ? (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:03
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dhellmannare there any issues that would delay release candidates, require new candidates, delay branching, etc.?21:03
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mikalI think we'll need a RC2 in nova21:03
dhellmanngordc/eglynn are looking at some things with the ceilometer client21:03
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notmynameswift is waiting on the last patches to make it through the gate right now21:03
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notmyname#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/172573/21:04
notmynamewhen that lands, we'll have an RC21:04
dhellmannnotmyname: cool21:04
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dhellmannttx and I are going to be working on the requirements repo branch tomorrow21:04
ttxwe'll need RC2s for everyone21:05
mikaldhellmann: nova has two critica bugs marked as kilo-rc-potential at the moment21:05
ttx(maybe not swift)21:05
bknudsonyou cappin' 'em cap'n?21:05
ttxmikal: we plan to open a RC2 window for nova at end of week21:05
dhellmannmikal: ok21:05
ttxas discussed with john21:05
dhellmannbknudson: yeah21:05
mikalttx: can we announce that on the list so people know the timeline for the yet-to-be-fixed bugs?21:05
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ttxmikal: the trick is.. as soon as you mention a RC2 publicly people stop testing RC1. Go wonder21:06
fungiaccording to https://status.rackspace.com/ the gate weather could be a little unfavorable, so just a heads up21:06
dhellmannfungi: thanks21:06
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fungisince i know many of you are waiting for final patches to land before tagging things21:06
ttxmikal: you can say that it would be better to fix known issues by EOW so that they can be backported back to any RC2 that might be coming though21:06
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thingeettx: that would help with the potential rc bug we talked about in 1on1 for cinder.21:07
mikalttx: ok21:07
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gordcdhellmann:  regarding ceilometerclient, i'll sync with eglynn but we'll probably looking at cutting ceilometerclient 1.0.14 unless we find any breaking changes since last release.21:07
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dhellmanngordc: sounds good21:07
dhellmannok, are there any other issues we need to raise before we move on?21:08
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thingeeclarification, are we still bumping cinder to 1.1.2?21:08
ttxthingee: why do you need that bump for ?21:08
thingeeI've been a bit confused in the ML and playing catch up after pycon21:08
dhellmannthingee: we don't usually bump the minimum for patch releases21:09
thingeek thanks21:09
thingeettx: I don't have anything pressing. just people angry for the sake of a new release.21:09
dhellmannthingee: the current requirement is >=1.1.0 and we'd cap that as >=1.1.0,<1.2.0 so 1.1.2 could be used if there21:09
ttxthingee; you would rather do a 1.2.0 after we cut the stable/kilo branch21:09
thingeettx: got it21:10
ttxif it's a featureful release21:10
thingeeyup it is21:10
dhellmannah, yeah, that should definitely wait21:10
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ttxFWIW next cycle we'll more aggressively adopt the Oslo model everywhere21:10
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ttxi.e. branch earlier21:11
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ttxeverywhere = for every openstack lib21:11
dhellmannright, in general we want to release clients early and often, just like the other libs21:11
thingeedhellmann: I plan to imrpove this in my process. and sorry to people who were angry with me this morning.21:11
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dhellmannone of my early tasks for liberty will be to document the release tools we have put in place to make lib releases easier, so we can be consistent with things like release notes21:12
fungieverywhere should = everything in global-requirements.txt21:12
fungiwhich we also host in our gerrit, that is21:12
dhellmannfungi: right21:12
mesterydhellmann: ++21:12
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dhellmannso let's talk about some specs now21:12
dhellmann#topic cross-project spec: Return request ID to caller21:13
*** openstack changes topic to "cross-project spec: Return request ID to caller (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:13
dhellmann#link https://review.openstack.org/15650821:13
tpatilWe have submitted a new patch set  to log request ID mappings across service boundaries21:13
tpatilWe have worked as per Doug’s suggestion to store x-openstack-request-id in the thread local storage of the client. Then exposed get_openstack_request_id method to retrieve this request id to the caller21:13
* rockyg Thanks dhellmann!21:13
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tpatilAdvantages of this proposed design21:13
tpatil1) Doesn’t break compatibility (if the service doesn’t require logging request id mapping then also it can use the newer version of the client)21:13
* dhellmann needs to read the latest draft of the spec21:13
tpatil2) Minimal changes to the python-*client code.21:13
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tpatilRequest everyone to please review the specs21:14
tpatilWe have already implemented this proposed design in python-cinderclient21:14
tpatilAdd support to return request_id to the calling service21:14
dhellmanntpatil: it sounds like my concerns were addressed21:14
tpatil#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/173199/21:14
bknudsonseems like this could be handled in the keystoneclient session code.21:14
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tpatildhellman: Yes21:14
dhellmanntpatil: have you identified any issues implementing this outside of cinder, where the tools (particularly on the server side) might be different?21:14
tpatillog request-id mapping of nova and cinder21:14
tpatil#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/17323421:14
mtreinishoh, wasn't this an old nova spec/bp from like a year ago?21:15
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morganfainbergbknudson, agreed this looks like something that could be in session21:15
mtreinishI thought there was some work done on getting this with glanceclient before21:15
tpatilyes, we have done testing with nova. Also tested in multi thread environment.21:15
bknudsona single python API call could result in multiple requests... e.g., if your session got a fresh token.21:15
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dhellmannlots of good points, please post comments on the review21:16
tpatildhellman: We haven't found any issues there21:16
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rockyga cross project session for this would be great -- especially to get ops folks to give their log needs21:16
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thingeetpatil: I'm happy to see this this is now returning from the explicit get_request_openstack_id()21:16
thingeetpatil: instead of just from calls like list()21:16
tpatilShould I propose a session to address these changes?21:16
dhellmannrockyg: we'll be talking about how to propose sessions in a bit21:17
dhellmanntpatil: you're welcome to propose it, yes (I can't promise whether we'll have time for it)21:17
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mtreinishalso we've had this session at least once in the past (I think in HK) and it just never has been pushed to completion21:17
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tpatilok, I will submit a session21:18
mtreinishthat's why this is about mapping ids instead of letting clients set the id21:18
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bknudsontrick is we can't trust the client.21:18
bknudsonand maybe that just means not accepting a really long request ID.21:18
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mtreinishbknudson: no I think mapping is the right solution here, just get the services to log request ids between rest calls to other things21:19
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mtreinishI was just giving historical background21:19
bknudsonright, the danger is if it's a really long request ID then that's a DoS on your logs.21:19
dhellmannit sounds like there are several people here with insight into the problem and its history, so please do post comments on the review to help nudge it in the right direction21:19
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mtreinishbknudson: is that a real concern, everything should be using the same oslo lib for getting the req-id21:20
mtreinishdhellmann: sure will do21:20
dhellmannmtreinish: thanks21:21
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dhellmannso let's move on to the next spec...21:21
dhellmann#topic cross-project spec: OpenStack wide Error Codes for Log Messages21:21
*** openstack changes topic to "cross-project spec: OpenStack wide Error Codes for Log Messages (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:21
tpatilbknudson: we can make this configurable if you don't need to log request id mapping.21:21
dhellmann#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/172552/21:21
rockygLots of great comments I need to incorporate in.21:22
dhellmannThis is the one from rockyg and jokke_ about creating standard message identifiers21:22
rockygTomorrow's log_wg meeting will get clarity on some of that21:22
dhellmannyes, there's a good bit of feedback in the comments right now21:23
dhellmannrockyg: I think the thing to keep in mind here is to keep the solution simple, to avoid needing to do a lot of coordination or making lots of application-level changes21:24
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rockygagreed.  And being specific.21:24
dhellmannwe should also think about whether there are ways to use data we already have, like the logger module name and exception class name, to avoid requiring us to produce the results we want with less work21:25
rockygA definitions section should help.21:25
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dhellmannalso, we need some volunteers to sign up to do some of the work -- my name is there only for related work in oslo.log :-)21:25
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rockygI think once we have a solid spec and some example code, we can get more volunteers.21:26
rockygI'm also hoping this can be done as a "while you're in there21:26
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rockygkind of thing.  So old doesn't break new.21:27
rockygOr vice versa?21:27
dhellmannrockyg: ok. I'd be reluctant to approve a spec without someone signed up to implement it, but we can address that when the other issues are handled21:27
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rockygdhellmann: right, but we might want to get per project sign-ups21:28
dhellmannrockyg: I'd also like to see if we can figure out a way to meet the requirements without having to touch lots of messages, so think about (and describe) the ultimate goal, as well as the proposed implementation21:28
dhellmannrockyg: yep, you should be starting to get some support from projects now -- that's the whole point of this cross-project spec process21:29
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rockygI'll be recruiting heavily at the summit, too21:29
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rockygAlso, great idea, dhellmann. if we can sprignboard on what oslo.log already knows, so much the better.21:29
bknudsonis there going to be a library for it?21:29
dhellmannbknudson: once we figure out what "it" is, I would expect most common pieces to go into oslo.log. It's not yet clear that there needs to be any coding, though.21:30
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dhellmannit's also not clear that oslo.log is the best place, if we're talking about errors returned through the REST API21:30
dhellmannshall we move on to summit planning?21:31
dhellmann#topic Design Summit Cross-project sessions brainstorming21:31
*** openstack changes topic to "Design Summit Cross-project sessions brainstorming (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:31
dhellmannttx has set up a google doc to hold session topics, since the etherpad we used last time got pretty messy and hard to work with21:31
dhellmann#link submit a session proposal http://goo.gl/forms/S69HM6XEeb21:31
dhellmannthat form feeds data into a spreadsheet:21:32
dhellmann#link review submission proposals https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vCTZBJKCMZ2xBhglnuK3ciKo3E8UMFo5S5lmIAYMCSE/edit?usp=sharing21:32
dhellmannthe spreadsheet is locked, but anyone should be able to leave comments21:32
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dhellmannplease keep in mind that we want these sessions to be about more than one project, usually more than 221:32
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geoffarnoldI'm concerned that we may be treating two different types of issues as "cross-project": initiatives involving work in a couple of projects, and housekeeping stuff affecting all the projects (like version IDs and RC coordination21:33
ttxSo if you have a cross-project issue that could use some F2F time to see a quick resolution, pleéase consider adding it21:33
dhellmannwe have finite space and time, so we'll probably end up giving priority to broader topics, but they still need to have very clear and focused proposals21:33
etoewsis there a deadline for submissions?21:33
dhellmanngeoffarnold: yes, we'll sort that out when we review the proposals21:33
dhellmanngeoffarnold: asking for a session does not guarantee that it is given :-)21:33
geoffarnoldof course!21:33
geoffarnoldI've been around long enough.................21:34
ttxetoews: let me see what I put on that ML post21:34
dhellmann#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-April/061070.html21:34
ttx"We expect to process those starting the week of April 27, so it would be21:34
dhellmannetoews: deadline is 26 Apr21:34
ttxgreat to submit your suggestions before EOD April 26."21:34
etoewsttx: you might want to add that deadline to the google form too21:34
ttxThat doesn't mean we won't take anythgin after that, but anything submitted after that might just be ignored.21:34
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dhellmanngeoffarnold: k, we share a concern on this point21:35
stevebakerttx: are there sessions where operators and developers intermingle?21:35
dhellmannstevebaker: there's an entire operators track this time around21:35
ttxstevebaker: all sessions ?21:35
ttxAlso we have the possibility to add sessions to multiple tracks this time around21:35
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stevebakeri mean about specific topics that concern operators *and* developers21:35
dhellmannstevebaker: there's a draft agenda for the operator sessions at http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-operators/2015-April/006730.html21:36
rockygttx, stevebaker: well, when there isn't a more pressing session in an ops or dev track....21:36
ttxso if you have a specific session you'd like lots of ops to come, you have the possibility to make it appear on the ops list21:36
rockygttx: which is great!21:36
stevebakerttx: ah, ok21:36
rockygadn vice versa.21:36
dhellmannttx: nice21:37
ttxOps have sessions all Tuesday all Wednesday though, so don't expect miracles.21:37
ttxI didn't make a lot of progress in the mastering of Timespace bending21:37
dhellmannhmm, yeah, what happened to monday?21:37
ttxMonday, no design summit21:37
ttxand now Ops is in Design Summit, same days21:37
dhellmannisn't that when we had the ops sessions last time?21:37
anteayait used to be ops day21:37
ttxThat was a separate event21:38
geoffarnoldIs Friday going to be working sessions, like Paris, or what?21:38
ttxyes, Friday is workign sessions only21:38
dhellmannare there any other summit questions?21:39
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dhellmann#topic Open discussion & announcements21:40
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion & announcements (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:40
dhellmanndoes anyone have anything else to share?21:40
rockygquestion for doug: which chat rooms can you usually be found?21:41
dhellmannrockyg: I'm usually in most of them, I think. #openstack-dev and #openstack-oslo are always easy21:41
fungii've also caught him skulking around #openstack-infra21:42
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fungiand #openstack-qa21:42
fungiyou know, all the important channels ;_21:42
dhellmannfungi: you're telling all my secrets21:42
dhellmannif there's nothing else to discuss other than my irc habits, I think we can say we're done21:42
rockygfungi: you're making dhellmann blush...21:43
dhellmannthank you all, and please look at the cross-project specs mentioned here and the others proposed that we might need to hash out at the summit21:43
dhellmannenjoy your extra 15 minutes :-)21:43
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:43
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openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr 14 21:43:57 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:44
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-04-14-21.02.html21:44
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-04-14-21.02.txt21:44
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ttxyou rocked it21:44
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-04-14-21.02.log.html21:44
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ttxdhellmann: thx!21:44
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loquacitieshello docs lovelies!23:59
loquacitiesanyone here?23:59

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