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| JRobinson__ | loquacities, some rh writers just went into a meeting apparently. | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| loquacities | hrm | 00:01 |
| loquacities | it's vewy vewy qwiet | 00:02 |
| loquacities | and i have so much to talk to you all about today! | 00:02 |
| loquacities | the agenda is ... fairly long | 00:02 |
| JRobinson__ | loquacities, is the meeting at 11 or 10? I thought 11 | 00:02 |
| loquacities | 10 according to my cal | 00:02 |
| loquacities | i might start pinging ppl in the other chan | 00:03 |
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| loquacities | most of the RHers are absent | 00:05 |
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| loquacities | and it seems i can't math | 00:08 |
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| JRobinson__ | hello all, the APAC docs meeting is set to begin in about 5 minutes. Please stand by. | 00:55 |
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| JRobinson__ | We'll begin the APAC docs meeting in about 3 minutes. | 00:58 |
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| JRobinson__ | sorry, I'm incorrect, we'll begin a bit later than 11am - 11:15 or so. sorry for the confusion | 00:59 |
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| adahms | Roger that JRobinson__ | 01:03 |
| Sam-I-Am | can has docs meeting? | 01:03 |
| JRobinson__ | thanks adahms | 01:03 |
| adahms | We will only be available up until half past ourselves, but will be there from 11:15 | 01:03 |
| JRobinson__ | Sam-I-Am, we're starting a bit later | 01:03 |
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| Sam-I-Am | how much later? | 01:04 |
| JRobinson__ | 10 minutes from now | 01:05 |
| Sam-I-Am | ok, maybe enough time to attack the pile of dishes | 01:05 |
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| loquacities | hi everyone, sorry for the delay | 01:07 |
| loquacities | i got caught on a phone call | 01:07 |
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| loquacities | #startmeeting docteam | 01:08 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 15 01:08:27 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is loquacities. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 01:08 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 01:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 01:08 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'docteam' | 01:08 |
| loquacities | right, who's here? | 01:08 |
| dnavale | hi loquacities | 01:08 |
| loquacities | hi deepti! | 01:08 |
| furface | hey loquacities | 01:08 |
| bmoss | I'm in the house | 01:08 |
| adahms | Morning! | 01:08 |
| Sam-I-Am | moo | 01:08 |
| dmacpher | Here | 01:09 |
| loquacities | hi everyone :) | 01:09 |
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| loquacities | asettle? | 01:09 |
| asettle | Sorry! Here! Slow day today | 01:09 |
| asettle | I cannot brain | 01:09 |
| asettle | I haz the dumb | 01:09 |
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| JRobinson__ | np, disregard my other message :) | 01:09 |
| asettle | Thanks for hte ping JRobinson__ :) | 01:10 |
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| loquacities | asettle: know them feels | 01:10 |
| asettle | I don't know what it is, but I am out of my mind exhausted. | 01:10 |
| asettle | Annywya | 01:10 |
| loquacities | #topic Action items from the last meeting | 01:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action items from the last meeting (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 01:10 | |
| asettle | LET THE GAMES CONTINUE | 01:10 |
| loquacities | the only action i can find is "asettle to book informal Brisbane meetup for 31 March, and send out invites" | 01:10 |
| loquacities | which of course happened | 01:11 |
| loquacities | so, thanks for coming out everyone, it was fun :) | 01:11 |
| JRobinson__ | It had a great turnout :) | 01:11 |
| asettle | Glad you could all make it :) | 01:11 |
| loquacities | #topic PTL changes: Anne will complete Kilo, Lana is planning Liberty | 01:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PTL changes: Anne will complete Kilo, Lana is planning Liberty (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 01:11 | |
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| loquacities | that shouldn't be news to anyone, but does anyone have any questions? | 01:11 |
| JRobinson__ | Is there any further voting that needs to happen? sorry if obvious | 01:12 |
| loquacities | no, it was uncontested | 01:12 |
| Sam-I-Am | loquacities: it just means you're crazy | 01:12 |
| * JRobinson__ nods | 01:12 | |
| loquacities | so if you don't like me, you need to nominate yourself next time :P | 01:12 |
| Sam-I-Am | i thought about trying for ptl | 01:12 |
| loquacities | as it is, you're now stuck with me for the next six months | 01:13 |
| Sam-I-Am | then realized that i'm crazy, but not quite insane. | 01:13 |
| Sam-I-Am | (yet) | 01:13 |
| loquacities | Sam-I-Am: apparently, i am | 01:13 |
| Sam-I-Am | are you an alcoholic yet? | 01:13 |
| loquacities | already was | 01:13 |
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| loquacities | it was what qualified me to run | 01:13 |
| Sam-I-Am | relapse | 01:13 |
| loquacities | ok, moving on ... | 01:13 |
| loquacities | #topic Kilo tasks: | 01:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Kilo tasks: (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 01:13 | |
| loquacities | there's a few things here: | 01:13 |
| loquacities | first of all, RST publishing is working OK at this stage, with one exception | 01:14 |
| loquacities | there's been some issues with translation where a higher than expected number of strings have remained untranslated | 01:14 |
| loquacities | i'm going to be going into the translation meeting on thursday to try and understand that issue better | 01:14 |
| loquacities | (as anne's proxy, i might add) | 01:14 |
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| loquacities | the next topic on kilo is bug triaging | 01:15 |
| loquacities | basically, we need to do some | 01:15 |
| loquacities | i believe anne is setting up another bug triage day, but if you have spare time, that's a good task to do this week | 01:15 |
| asettle | So, um... what happens if RST doesn't work with translation? | 01:15 |
| asettle | Also, can I question why this wasn't discussed before the RST conversion began? Or was it, and a trial was successful? | 01:15 |
| Sam-I-Am | the triage issue is fun... because its a lot of things thrown over the fence from devs expecting us to rtfc | 01:16 |
| loquacities | asettle: we either delay publishing the translated copies, or publish translated copies with some english strings | 01:16 |
| loquacities | Sam-I-Am: +1 | 01:16 |
| asettle | Gothca | 01:16 |
| asettle | Gotcha* | 01:16 |
| loquacities | asettle: and so, yes, there was a trial done, but we didn't realise that some of the markup wasn't going to work so well | 01:16 |
| loquacities | there's an issue with backticks, apparently | 01:16 |
| asettle | That's a bit unfortunate | 01:16 |
| asettle | oh I see | 01:16 |
| asettle | So you couldn't see all the issues | 01:16 |
| asettle | Mer | 01:17 |
| loquacities | anyway, my understand is still a bit patchy, which is why i'm going to the meeting | 01:17 |
| asettle | Okay :) | 01:17 |
| asettle | Please let us know the outcome :) | 01:17 |
| loquacities | so hopefully i'll know more soon | 01:17 |
| loquacities | will do | 01:17 |
| Sam-I-Am | in bug triage, if we cant figure it out, maybe tag the developer of the patch on it? | 01:17 |
| loquacities | that is sensible, i think | 01:17 |
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| Sam-I-Am | the rst thing is kind of messy. and now its all loq's mess to clean up :) | 01:17 |
| loquacities | although a personal ping might be more successful, if possible | 01:17 |
| loquacities | Sam-I-Am: no it's not, kilo is still anne's problem :P | 01:18 |
| Sam-I-Am | well, either way... somehow get the dev involved. | 01:18 |
| Sam-I-Am | loquacities: riiiiiiiight | 01:18 |
| loquacities | +1 | 01:18 |
| * Sam-I-Am grabs popcorn | 01:18 | |
| loquacities | (that's what i keep telling myself, anyway) | 01:18 |
| Sam-I-Am | uh huhhh.... | 01:18 |
| loquacities | ok, the only other topic on kilo tasks is that the networking guide is having a doc day on 23 april | 01:18 |
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| loquacities | i might ask Sam-I-Am to elaborate on that when we get to the specialty teams bit, though | 01:19 |
| Sam-I-Am | which is also the day i have a dentist appointment :/ | 01:19 |
| loquacities | if that's ok with you Sam-I-Am? | 01:19 |
| Sam-I-Am | i... guess. it sort of happened while i was away. | 01:19 |
| loquacities | oh! coding on anaesthetic! | 01:19 |
| loquacities | \o/ | 01:19 |
| loquacities | heh, ok | 01:19 |
| loquacities | #topic Docs specs in review | 01:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Docs specs in review (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 01:19 | |
| loquacities | the only one i'm aware of is the first app one: | 01:20 |
| loquacities | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/170413/ | 01:20 |
| loquacities | #topic Next migration project | 01:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Next migration project (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 01:20 | |
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| loquacities | so anne and i have been trying to work out which book to convert to RST next | 01:20 |
| loquacities | there's been a good discussion on the ML about it over the past couple of weeks | 01:20 |
| loquacities | and anne has put together a spreadsheet with the factors we want to consider | 01:21 |
| asettle | Yeah, it looks painful | 01:21 |
| loquacities | #link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10HD6iW1CtfB1qT2wVODYiHdC0ysr4xw392VCqHB-aaY/edit?usp=sharing | 01:21 |
| loquacities | so the purpose of this is so we can reorder things how we want | 01:21 |
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| loquacities | there's no real decision yet, but it's an interesting exercise | 01:21 |
| loquacities | any questions on that? | 01:21 |
| loquacities | #topic Specialty teams | 01:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specialty teams (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 01:22 | |
| JRobinson__ | is there a lean toward the install guide and admin guide in particular? The large page views are attention grabbing. | 01:22 |
| loquacities | JRobinson__: yeah, definitely | 01:22 |
| Sam-I-Am | the install guide's holdup is mainly conditionals | 01:23 |
| loquacities | but the install guide is hard because of conditionals | 01:23 |
| Sam-I-Am | hopefully not duplicating a lot of stuff, only to have it diverge over time | 01:23 |
| loquacities | +1 | 01:23 |
| loquacities | ok, just gonna run through the speciality teams real quick | 01:23 |
| loquacities | HA Guide - Needs an updated spec | 01:23 |
| loquacities | Training Guides - i don't have an update | 01:24 |
| loquacities | Install Guides - RST conversion convo | 01:24 |
| loquacities | User Guides - IA of guides (meetings resume this friday) | 01:24 |
| loquacities | Security Guide - i don't have an update | 01:24 |
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| loquacities | API docs - i don't have an update | 01:24 |
| loquacities | Networking Guide - Needs testing & review | 01:25 |
| loquacities | and now would be a good time to mention that doc day again | 01:25 |
| loquacities | Sam-I-Am: ^^ ? | 01:25 |
| Sam-I-Am | yeah, apparently we need contributors... first, we need the existing scenarios converted to RST if they're not done yet | 01:25 |
| Sam-I-Am | second, we need people to contribute to the non-scenario parts of the guide | 01:25 |
| loquacities | can i sec an outreachy mentee on you? | 01:25 |
| loquacities | or is that cruel? | 01:26 |
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| loquacities | sic* | 01:26 |
| Sam-I-Am | a what? | 01:26 |
| loquacities | an applicant in the outreachy mentor program | 01:26 |
| bmoss | a manatee. Large, marine mammal found in Florida. | 01:26 |
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| loquacities | (previously the gnome OPW) | 01:26 |
| slong_ | :) | 01:26 |
| loquacities | bmoss: can they write? | 01:26 |
| nickchase | boy, when you come into the middle of a conversation.... | 01:26 |
| adahms | Assign a bug and find out ;) | 01:26 |
| loquacities | nickchase: hi! | 01:26 |
| Sam-I-Am | nickchase: pays to be on time | 01:26 |
| nickchase | hi. :) | 01:26 |
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| bmoss | loquacities, not sure, but they are technically excellent | 01:27 |
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| loquacities | bmoss: i'll consider hiring one | 01:27 |
| Sam-I-Am | nickchase: can you elaborate more on the networking docs day? | 01:27 |
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| nickchase | yes | 01:27 |
| nickchase | Edgar will rally the Neutron group troops to ... | 01:27 |
| nickchase | basically fill in the gaps in the networking guide on the 23rd (I think) | 01:28 |
| Sam-I-Am | i was sort of missing for that discussion | 01:28 |
| nickchase | he's in there now... | 01:28 |
| nickchase | cleaning up the index and making sure he understands how things work | 01:28 |
| nickchase | and I'm finishing the other conversions | 01:28 |
| nickchase | so it'll be obvious what's still missing | 01:28 |
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| loquacities | so is it worth asking the writers in this meeting to contribute during our 23rd? | 01:28 |
| loquacities | do you have a wiki page or something where they can self-select tasks? | 01:29 |
| Sam-I-Am | might need neutron knowledge | 01:29 |
| Sam-I-Am | however, if devs write stuff, there will be plenty of -1s to fix | 01:29 |
| nickchase | or general networking knowledge | 01:29 |
| loquacities | sounds like a job for furface_ | 01:29 |
| loquacities | :P | 01:29 |
| nickchase | :) | 01:29 |
| furface_ | :) | 01:29 |
| nickchase | I think that... | 01:29 |
| nickchase | it's worth showing up. | 01:29 |
| Sam-I-Am | i suspect docs folks will make it look pretty (anne's not here, right?) | 01:30 |
| nickchase | Edgar is making a etherpad | 01:30 |
| nickchase | but I don't think he has done it yet | 01:30 |
| asettle | Oh my jesus god I looked away for five minutes | 01:30 |
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| nickchase | Hey, Alex | 01:30 |
| nickchase | The TOC is here, though: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/NetworkingGuide/TOC | 01:30 |
| loquacities | ok, so for the minutes: please consider getting involved in the networking guide doc day on the 23rd, watch the ML for an etherpad and more details | 01:30 |
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| asettle | Hey nickchase :) | 01:30 |
| nickchase | correct. we should have something on Friday | 01:30 |
| adahms | Sorry, all - I'm going to have to steal away the RHEL-OSP Red Hatters now I'm afraid | 01:30 |
| slong_ | 23.april? | 01:30 |
| loquacities | awesome, thanks nickchase | 01:30 |
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| adahms | We'll keep track | 01:31 |
| loquacities | adahms: thanks man :) | 01:31 |
| loquacities | can we move on? | 01:31 |
| nickchase | loquacities: please check the date | 01:31 |
| slong_ | have to go to another mtg... | 01:31 |
| loquacities | i've got 23 april, is that wrong? | 01:31 |
| nickchase | I'm not sure it's the 23rd. whatever I said it is, it is. | 01:31 |
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| Sam-I-Am | $dayofweek | 01:31 |
| loquacities | that's what anne had in her update | 01:31 |
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| nickchase | then that's right | 01:31 |
| loquacities | ok | 01:31 |
| nickchase | slong_: so good to see you! | 01:31 |
| nickchase | hello and goodbye :) | 01:31 |
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| loquacities | #topic Doc tools update | 01:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Doc tools update (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 01:32 | |
| loquacities | anne has "releasing next Sphinx theme and clouddocs-maven-plugin for Kilo" | 01:32 |
| loquacities | but i don't actually have any further info on that | 01:32 |
| loquacities | so, moving on | 01:32 |
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| loquacities | #topic Vancouver | 01:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Vancouver (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 01:32 | |
| loquacities | Design summit sessions etherpad here: #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Docs_Liberty_Design_Sessions | 01:32 |
| loquacities | please add your suggestions there | 01:32 |
| loquacities | any other questions/comments on summit? | 01:33 |
| Sam-I-Am | looking forward to it | 01:33 |
| loquacities | me too! | 01:33 |
| loquacities | #topic APAC Meetup | 01:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "APAC Meetup (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 01:33 | |
| loquacities | Planning for an APAC OpenStack meet up in May, ping asettle | 01:33 |
| asettle | I love it when the thing I write comes back to me | 01:34 |
| asettle | Huzzah | 01:34 |
| loquacities | :P | 01:34 |
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| asettle | Basically, May, I was thinking mid to late may (closer to the swarm) for catch up | 01:34 |
| asettle | Thinking we might go closer to the RH office this time round so that furface_ doesn't exhaust himself | 01:34 |
| asettle | ;) | 01:34 |
| asettle | That wholeeeeee 2km each way | 01:34 |
| loquacities | lol | 01:34 |
| bmoss | remember that late May is summit | 01:34 |
| furface_ | lol | 01:35 |
| asettle | bmoss I do indeed | 01:35 |
| furface_ | I am delicate | 01:35 |
| nickchase | more like mid-may, though; 18-22 | 01:35 |
| loquacities | it would be nice to have a summit debrief | 01:35 |
| nickchase | i guess that's late (doh) | 01:35 |
| asettle | I think post summit is a good idea | 01:35 |
| asettle | nickchase lol you beautiful | 01:35 |
| loquacities | i'm back on 25 may | 01:35 |
| asettle | Cool well, let's aim for something closer to the 30th... enough time for sleeps | 01:35 |
| loquacities | that would work for me | 01:35 |
| Sam-I-Am | sleep is optional | 01:36 |
| JRobinson__ | So the wednesday of the 27th > 30th, good plan | 01:36 |
| asettle | Then we can chill, chat about summit, discuss OS plans, and talk about nickchase when he's not around ;) | 01:36 |
| bmoss | How about first week of June? | 01:36 |
| bmoss | for selfish reasons, since I'm not back until June 1 | 01:36 |
| asettle | bmoss ahuh, noted in my diary | 01:36 |
| loquacities | #action asettle to investigate first week of june for another APAC openstack docs f2f | 01:36 |
| JRobinson__ | June 3 > June 5 then | 01:36 |
| asettle | "Dear Diary, Brian away. Quickly, steal his wife, and home" | 01:36 |
| loquacities | oh, and from earlier, because i forgot to write it out: | 01:36 |
| loquacities | #action Lana to report back on i18n RST issues | 01:36 |
| bmoss | HA! She's with me in Canada. | 01:36 |
| asettle | And wher am I bmoss? | 01:37 |
| nickchase | that should make it easier to steal your home... :) | 01:37 |
| loquacities | ok, that's all i had | 01:37 |
| asettle | nickchase is with me! | 01:37 |
| loquacities | #topic Open discussion | 01:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 01:37 | |
| nickchase | yep. :) | 01:37 |
| * bmoss invests in a security system | 01:37 | |
| loquacities | have at it! | 01:37 |
| bmoss | Docs swarm... | 01:38 |
| asettle | What about it? | 01:38 |
| asettle | Oh yeah, actually, I need you for that nickchase | 01:38 |
| loquacities | yeah, that should have been in the agenda | 01:38 |
| asettle | While i've got his attention | 01:38 |
| bmoss | I've booked Opera House for Aug 13-14, 9am to 5pm. | 01:38 |
| loquacities | excellent | 01:38 |
| bmoss | But since I will not be at RH at that point, Suyog has agreed to take over the booking. | 01:39 |
| asettle | nickchase I'll be sending an email out shortly. We're going to be conducting a swarm to reboot the arch guide. I will be requiring some SME's. Are you able to help us? I will be providing plenty of warning. I just need you to be available to reply to questions in emails one particular evening/day | 01:39 |
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| loquacities | bmoss: ok, cool. thanks to suyog :) | 01:39 |
| bmoss | So in other words, as of Monday Suyog is the RH contact for the docs swarm. | 01:39 |
| loquacities | cool beans, thank you | 01:39 |
| nickchase | I don't know that I will be the right person but I know someone who will likely be able/willing to help. | 01:39 |
| nickchase | define "reboot"? | 01:40 |
| asettle | nickchase I would love that. Who do you have in mind? | 01:40 |
| nickchase | His name is Christopher Aedo. | 01:40 |
| asettle | nickchase revamp more like. There's some technical inaccuracies currently, and mostly just consistency within the writing. | 01:40 |
| nickchase | Send me an email and we'll coordinate | 01:40 |
| asettle | I've spent the last few months changing it from passive to active voice. Which has ben a task. | 01:40 |
| asettle | You're a gem, thanks nickchase :) | 01:40 |
| nickchase | np | 01:40 |
| asettle | been* | 01:40 |
| loquacities | asettle, bmoss: anything else that needs doing on the swarm at this stage? | 01:41 |
| bmoss | loquacities, I don't think so. We've got a location and dates. | 01:41 |
| asettle | Currently, no. SME emails will be send out later. I have a plan in motion. Nearly done with the passive stuff. I think we're rolling. | 01:41 |
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| loquacities | excellent, thanks :) | 01:42 |
| asettle | Other than I need to know exact numbers at some stage to be able to allocate chapters/sections | 01:42 |
| loquacities | ok, i think we're done here | 01:42 |
| asettle | But I think we can discuss that in June | 01:42 |
| loquacities | thanks for your patience | 01:42 |
| asettle | Please put a note for the June meeting? | 01:42 |
| loquacities | sure :) | 01:42 |
| loquacities | oh, actually | 01:42 |
| loquacities | one more thing | 01:42 |
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| asettle | Yus? | 01:42 |
| Sam-I-Am | loquacities: when did you become steve jobs? | 01:43 |
| loquacities | one of the RCBAU guys mentioned that our *official* docs meeting schedule is 1-3 and 2-4 wednesdays | 01:43 |
| loquacities | Sam-I-Am: i've had tendencies all my life | 01:43 |
| loquacities | when we really should be on alternating weeks | 01:43 |
| Sam-I-Am | yes | 01:43 |
| loquacities | does anyone have any issue with me changing that? | 01:43 |
| Sam-I-Am | no | 01:43 |
| bmoss | nope. | 01:43 |
| Sam-I-Am | do the things | 01:43 |
| loquacities | cool | 01:43 |
| loquacities | i can fix that | 01:43 |
| loquacities | #action Lana to change meeting schedule to alternating weeks | 01:43 |
| loquacities | ok, now i'm really done | 01:44 |
| JRobinson__ | no worries there. | 01:44 |
| loquacities | thanks everyone :) | 01:44 |
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| Sam-I-Am | this way i can actually make it a calendar thing | 01:44 |
| bmoss | thanks loquacities | 01:44 |
| Sam-I-Am | because calendars dont do "2 and 4" or "1 and 3" | 01:44 |
| loquacities | #endmeeting | 01:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 01:44 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Apr 15 01:44:26 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 01:44 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2015/docteam.2015-04-15-01.08.html | 01:44 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2015/docteam.2015-04-15-01.08.txt | 01:44 |
| asettle | Cool. | 01:44 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2015/docteam.2015-04-15-01.08.log.html | 01:44 |
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| asettle | loquacities just to note, also have support from Beth Cohen :) | 01:47 |
| loquacities | yay! | 01:47 |
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| shardy | #startmeeting heat | 12:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 15 12:00:17 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is shardy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 12:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 12:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)" | 12:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'heat' | 12:00 |
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| skraynev | Fuh. Bot works today :) | 12:00 |
| shardy | #topic rollcall | 12:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: heat)" | 12:00 | |
| shardy | \o/ | 12:00 |
| skraynev | o/ | 12:00 |
| shardy | whoe's around? | 12:00 |
| dgonzalez | o/ | 12:01 |
| ananta | o/ | 12:01 |
| shardy | who's even.. | 12:01 |
| ramishra | hi | 12:01 |
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| pas-ha | o/ | 12:02 |
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| ryansb | \o | 12:02 |
| Qiming | hi | 12:02 |
| shardy | Ok, hi all, let's get started | 12:02 |
| shardy | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/HeatAgenda | 12:02 |
| shardy | #topic Adding items to the agenda | 12:03 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Adding items to the agenda (Meeting topic: heat)" | 12:03 | |
| shardy | anyone have anything to add? | 12:03 |
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| shardy | Ok, I'll take that as a no ;) | 12:03 |
| shardy | #topic Any critical bugs (rc2 potential) | 12:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Any critical bugs (rc2 potential) (Meeting topic: heat)" | 12:04 | |
| pas-ha | just discovered after ML post - https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/1444429 | 12:04 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1444429 in heat "WaitConditionHandle creates stack user without a password" [Undecided,New] | 12:04 |
| shardy | So, I checked with ttx, and it's likely we'll have an rc2, but we're still waiting for the bugs we want to backport to be finalized | 12:04 |
| zaneb | o/ | 12:04 |
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| pas-ha | not sure how critical is that | 12:05 |
| shardy | pas-ha: It's not supposed to have a password, the AWS WaitCondition only has an ec2 keypair | 12:05 |
| shardy | I'll take a look after the meeting | 12:05 |
| pas-ha | no, thats native one | 12:05 |
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| shardy | pas-ha: Ok, well definitely one to investigate ;) | 12:05 |
| pas-ha | Create_Failed: Resource CREATE failed: BadRequest: Password is not strong | 12:05 |
| pas-ha | enough (HTTP 400) | 12:05 |
| shardy | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bugs?field.tag=kilo-rc-potential | 12:06 |
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| zaneb | wow, that's a long list | 12:06 |
| shardy | If folks can tag bugs with kilo-rc-potential, it will help track what needs to get backported to proposed/kilo | 12:06 |
| pas-ha | shardy, what's the difference between kilo-rc-potential and kilo-backport-potential? | 12:06 |
| zaneb | pas-ha: kilo-rc is pre-release | 12:07 |
| zaneb | kilo-backport is stable release | 12:07 |
| shardy | pas-ha: kilo-rc-potential means it's something we might consider a release blocker | 12:07 |
| zaneb | i.e. 2014.1.1 | 12:07 |
| pas-ha | we already have kilo-backport-potentia | 12:07 |
| pas-ha | :) | 12:07 |
| shardy | kilo-backport-potential is something we'd consider for a post-release async stable release | 12:07 |
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| shardy | if we're doing an RC2, we may as well get as many non-risky bugfixes in as we can IMO | 12:08 |
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| ryansb | +1 | 12:08 |
| shardy | as zaneb says, that is looking like rather a long list though :) | 12:08 |
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| skraynev | may be some authors don't know, that their patches are backport potential ? | 12:09 |
| shardy | skraynev: it's up to the heat-core folks to set the tag appropriately either when reviewing or when triaging the bug | 12:10 |
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| shardy | e.g before you +A something, you should think if its a release-worthy fix, and consider tagging the bug referenced from the commit | 12:10 |
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| skraynev | shardy: yeah, I know, but I told, about patches for review | 12:11 |
| skraynev | when it was marked as backport potential and the author of original commit does not know about it and do not do patch to another branch | 12:11 |
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| shardy | skraynev: Yeah, in that case, it's generally up to the PTL and any other kind folks who are prepared to propose the backports | 12:12 |
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| shardy | we can't really mandate that authors backport their patches, although it's obviously good if they do :) | 12:13 |
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| shardy | Ok, does anyone have anything else re rc2? | 12:13 |
| skraynev | shardy: :) need gerrit-bot for it | 12:13 |
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| zaneb | at the risk of making work for myself, I'd say it's the responsibility of the whole core team at a minimum, not just the PTL ;) | 12:13 |
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| shardy | zaneb: Yeah, I agree, but IME a lot of it falls to the PTL, hopefully that's improved now the role has been rotated quite a bit :) | 12:14 |
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| skraynev | zaneb: sure. we all can be on this place and nobody don't want to be alone with these responsibilities ;) | 12:15 |
| shardy | There are 4 High Triaged bugs on the rc-potential list, it'd be good if folks could either pick those up or deprioritize them | 12:15 |
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| zaneb | I have +A rights on the stable branches, feel free to add me to reviews :) | 12:15 |
| shardy | +1 | 12:15 |
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| shardy | #topic open discussion | 12:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)" | 12:16 | |
| shardy | Could be a quick meeting today ;) | 12:16 |
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| shardy | anyone have anything they'd like to discuss? | 12:16 |
| skraynev | yeah;) | 12:16 |
| skraynev | ooops. it was answer on the first message ;) | 12:17 |
| shardy | I wanted to point out that events are a terrible interface for user notifications, FWIW | 12:17 |
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| shardy | I think asalkeld started a thread about it, but I've been trying to consume hooks/breakpoints via events and it's nasty | 12:17 |
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| zaneb | lol | 12:17 |
| shardy | Just thought I'd share that with y'all ;) | 12:18 |
| ryansb | shardy: you mean heat events, not "the general term 'events'" right? | 12:18 |
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| skraynev | ryansb: I think shardy meant first one;) | 12:18 |
| shardy | ryansb: Yeah, heat events | 12:18 |
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| * zaneb warms up his zaqar rant | 12:18 | |
| ryansb | Because the conclusion to that notify-our-users thread was "we like sending events over zaqar as a solution" | 12:19 |
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| skraynev | zaneb: I'd prefer pluggable mechanism in this case | 12:19 |
| skraynev | zaneb: not only zaqar | 12:19 |
| shardy | ryansb: I'll take anything which doesn't require 37 API calls and a ton of list mangling on the client side | 12:19 |
| zaneb | skraynev: +1. there's no harm in sending it to multiple places | 12:19 |
| ryansb | zaneb: I think everyone here has heard the zaqar rant ;) | 12:20 |
| shardy | hopefully you'll all take pity on me when I post my heatclient hacks which do that later today and not immediately -2 them ;) | 12:20 |
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| zaneb | skraynev: although in my broader vision, the zaqar message can be used to trigger a mistral workflow, so it's pluggable by the user :) | 12:20 |
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| skraynev | zaneb: sounds interesting. | 12:21 |
| * shardy concludes his event rant | 12:21 | |
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| shardy | Anyone have anything else they'd like to discuss? | 12:22 |
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| ananta | would like to discuss 1312246 | 12:23 |
| ananta | bug 1312246 | 12:23 |
| ryansb | tagging along on the event rant: ceilometer has a spec up for alarming/event notification if folks want to have a peek https://review.openstack.org/#/c/172893/1 | 12:23 |
| ryansb | <end my topic> | 12:23 |
| ananta | wanted to know if it can be made public? https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat-cfntools/+bug/1312246 | 12:24 |
| zaneb | saw that in my email just now, but haven't read it yet | 12:25 |
| shardy | I'm puzzled by what an "attacker" would do in the context of a box they already have root via cloud-init on | 12:25 |
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| zaneb | wait, I have commented on this before | 12:26 |
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| ananta | I think its about not setting the setuid properly before running | 12:26 |
| ananta | running the command | 12:26 |
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| zaneb | ananta: no, it's not | 12:27 |
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| zaneb | but I agree this should be public | 12:27 |
| ananta | zaneb: ok | 12:28 |
| zaneb | it's up to the template author not to pass untrusted data as an argument there until this bug is fixed | 12:28 |
| shardy | Yeah I agree | 12:28 |
| zaneb | so they should probably know about it | 12:28 |
| shardy | I'd be happy to see it fixed, but it can't be super high priority given that it's not been fixed in a year ;) | 12:28 |
| zaneb | whereas I don't think knowing about it makes it significantly easier to exploit | 12:28 |
| ananta | zaneb: yes | 12:29 |
| ryansb | zaneb: +1 | 12:29 |
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| ananta | shardy: its definitely not high priority | 12:30 |
| shardy | ananta: Ok, I've triaged it an assigned medium priority | 12:31 |
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| ananta | shardy: thanks | 12:31 |
| shardy | if you're prepared to help fix it, that would be great | 12:31 |
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| ananta | shardy: I will investigate and see | 12:31 |
| ananta | I don't know right now | 12:32 |
| shardy | ananta: thanks | 12:32 |
| shardy | Anyone have anything else, or shall we wrap things up early? | 12:32 |
| zaneb | just changed it to "public security" | 12:33 |
| shardy | zaneb: thanks | 12:33 |
| shardy | Ok, if there's nothing else, I'll endmeeting, thanks everyone! | 12:33 |
| shardy | #endmeeting | 12:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 12:33 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Apr 15 12:33:53 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 12:33 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2015/heat.2015-04-15-12.00.html | 12:33 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2015/heat.2015-04-15-12.00.txt | 12:33 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2015/heat.2015-04-15-12.00.log.html | 12:33 |
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| * zaneb is still confused about how ananta even found it | 12:34 | |
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| ananta | zaneb: Jason added me | 12:34 |
| ananta | ;) | 12:34 |
| zaneb | ah :) | 12:34 |
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| BobBall | #startmeeting XenAPI | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 15 15:00:30 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is BobBall. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| BobBall | Howdy! | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'xenapi' | 15:00 |
| BobBall | johnthetubaguy - ping? | 15:00 |
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| johnthetubaguy | o/ | 15:01 |
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| johnthetubaguy | hello | 15:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | BobBall: hope you had a good holiday | 15:01 |
| BobBall | Howdy. Good, good. | 15:01 |
| BobBall | I did indeed, thanks! | 15:01 |
| BobBall | Forgot that I was on holiday last meeting :) | 15:01 |
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| BobBall | South Africa is a wonderful place. Definitely recommend it. As long as you lock up tight at night and don't walk around by yourself... | 15:01 |
| BobBall | Anyway | 15:02 |
| BobBall | #topic CI | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "CI (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:02 | |
| BobBall | Let's start with the fun one - the CI | 15:02 |
| BobBall | As you probably know the CI was disabled from voting late last week | 15:02 |
| BobBall | The initial suggestion was that the CI was broken | 15:02 |
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| BobBall | That was unfortunately not the case... | 15:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | BobBall: south africa, awesome | 15:02 |
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| johnthetubaguy | BobBall: ah, the code is broken? | 15:02 |
| BobBall | A new, major, race condition has been introduced somewhere which is hitting XenAPI very badl | 15:02 |
| BobBall | badly* | 15:02 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yes, you mentioned snapshot | 15:03 |
| BobBall | We went from a 10% failure rate to 60+% (not quite sure what the rate was) | 15:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | but its not affecting libvirt? | 15:03 |
| BobBall | Presumably not | 15:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | do you have the logs from the failure to look at? | 15:03 |
| BobBall | which isn't surprising | 15:03 |
| BobBall | since we have very different code paths | 15:03 |
| BobBall | http://dd6b71949550285df7dc-dda4e480e005aaa13ec303551d2d8155.r49.cf1.rackcdn.com/48/172448/1/15028/screen-n-cpu.txt.gz | 15:03 |
| BobBall | Uhhh | 15:03 |
| BobBall | I meant: http://dd6b71949550285df7dc-dda4e480e005aaa13ec303551d2d8155.r49.cf1.rackcdn.com/48/172448/1/15028/results.html | 15:03 |
| BobBall | Which includes that n-cpu log file | 15:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | have you found the offending log trace? | 15:04 |
| BobBall | Anyway - the interesting thing is that Tempest has recently changed to add a whole bunch of useful identifiers that should help track it down | 15:04 |
| BobBall | but I still didn't see anything helpfully obvious :( | 15:04 |
| BobBall | It's slightly worrying, perhaps, that most of the failures seem to happen when test snapshot pattern is the last test | 15:05 |
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| BobBall | but maybe that's due to the timeout we're hitting | 15:05 |
| BobBall | just pushing it to the last test executed | 15:05 |
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| BobBall | What I don't understand is how/why this is showing as a failure to connect to SSH | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | hmm | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | oh, thats odd, is that post boot from snapshot? | 15:06 |
| BobBall | It really _is_ some form of race since even though the pass rate is low, some jobs at the same time are still passing | 15:07 |
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| BobBall | http://paste.openstack.org/show/203994/ is a list of some passes/fails | 15:07 |
| BobBall | so you can see that even over a period of hours (so not just a temporary thing) we're getting a splattering of passes | 15:08 |
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| BobBall | http://dd6b71949550285df7dc-dda4e480e005aaa13ec303551d2d8155.r49.cf1.rackcdn.com/06/155006/11/15027/results.html is an example of a pass-in-amongst-the-fails | 15:09 |
| BobBall | Anyway - either of you have thoughts on where the issue might be from those logs? | 15:09 |
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| johnthetubaguy | sorry, distracted | 15:10 |
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| johnthetubaguy | agreed its a race | 15:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | just seeing if we found anything in the log | 15:10 |
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| BobBall | Any thoughts on how it might be a race, since it's actually SSH connection to the guest that is broken | 15:11 |
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| johnthetubaguy | waiting for it to be active? | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | unsure | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | what the test doing? | 15:12 |
| BobBall | It's writing a pattern of bits ot the guest then snapshotting I think | 15:13 |
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| BobBall | oh - no - it's not doing that any more | 15:14 |
| BobBall | I thought it used to | 15:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | hmm, odd | 15:14 |
| BobBall | now it's just writing the timestamp to the guest, snapshotting, booting that snapshot and testing it | 15:14 |
| BobBall | but it can't write the snapshot to the server initially | 15:14 |
| BobBall | that's what timesout | 15:14 |
| BobBall | so it's pre-snapshot | 15:14 |
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| BobBall | Just booted a newly created image which then can't be accessed | 15:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | hmm | 15:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | so maybe its not waiting long enough for it to boot? | 15:15 |
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| BobBall | Not unless we take a substantially longer amount of time than libvirt to download + boot a cirros image | 15:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | we do | 15:16 |
| BobBall | like minutes longer? | 15:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | from what I remember | 15:16 |
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| BobBall | I think SSH timeout is 120 seconds? | 15:16 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, that should be OK | 15:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | unless we hit some slow path I guess | 15:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | hmm | 15:17 |
| BobBall | console shows that the guest did boot | 15:17 |
| BobBall | however 2015-04-10 15:45:20.980 | wget: can't connect to remote host (169.254.169.254): Network is unreachable | 15:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah good point | 15:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | how long did it take | 15:18 |
| BobBall | Hmmmm... Was this not our fault? :/ | 15:18 |
| BobBall | Could this have been a RAX networking issue? | 15:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | I don't think so, its on box networking right? | 15:18 |
| BobBall | Infra tempest used to be just on HP cloud right? | 15:19 |
| BobBall | hmmm | 15:19 |
| BobBall | fair point | 15:19 |
| BobBall | 2015-04-10 15:45:20.911 | cloud-setup: failed to read iid from metadata. tried 30 | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | not sure | 15:19 |
| BobBall | 2015-04-10 15:45:20.919 | WARN: /etc/rc3.d/S45-cloud-setup failed | 15:19 |
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| johnthetubaguy | BobBall: we don't run the metadata service, where is that log from? | 15:19 |
| BobBall | http://dd6b71949550285df7dc-dda4e480e005aaa13ec303551d2d8155.r49.cf1.rackcdn.com/48/172448/1/15028/run_tests.log | 15:20 |
| BobBall | Search for the Cirros boot | 15:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | BobBall: the alternative is to try boot with config drive | 15:20 |
| BobBall | Looks like the guest doesn't get an IP address | 15:20 |
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| johnthetubaguy | BobBall: do force config drive | 15:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | see if that narrows it down | 15:20 |
| BobBall | I think we must be forcing it normally for it to work at all | 15:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | it could be a race in the ip tables writing | 15:20 |
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| BobBall | I wonder if there is an issue where the config drive might not be attached before we boot or something | 15:21 |
| BobBall | ? | 15:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | seems very unlikely | 15:21 |
| BobBall | 2015-04-10 15:45:20.396 | ### ifconfig -a | 15:21 |
| BobBall | 2015-04-10 15:45:20.402 | eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr FA:16:3E:FC:EC:8F | 15:21 |
| BobBall | 2015-04-10 15:45:20.408 | inet6 addr: fe80::f816:3eff:fefc:ec8f/64 Scope:Link | 15:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | BobBall: is it using the correct image? | 15:21 |
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| BobBall | I assume this means the guest definitely didn't get an IP address | 15:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | I guess we override the config option | 15:21 |
| * ijw spies on you | 15:21 | |
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| BobBall | We must | 15:22 |
| * BobBall hides behind a tree | 15:23 | |
| ijw | Seems you didn't get DHCP (which is only attempted when a config drive isn't mounted) | 15:23 |
| BobBall | OK - so config drive wasn't there, but it _must_ be for RAX. | 15:23 |
| BobBall | that's still right isn't it johnthetubaguy? | 15:23 |
| BobBall | So the real question is why wasn't there a config drive... | 15:23 |
| ijw | And config drive can be enabled with --config-drive=true but equally can be enabled if the global 'always give a config drive' option is set | 15:23 |
| BobBall | force_config_drive = always | 15:24 |
| BobBall | from n-cpu | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | BobBall: I think you are getting confused, the metadata service used in't the cloud one, its the one in your openstack setup right? | 15:24 |
| BobBall | Oh, yes, I am getting confused. | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | BobBall: are you sure its the right image we are launching in this test? | 15:24 |
| ijw | Usually I end up poking around in the /opt/stack/data/nova/instances for the config_drive file when I'm using libvirt, you can use a loopmount to see if it's good | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | maybe the new test used the wrong config | 15:24 |
| ijw | But assuming your cloud is not completely buggered I suspect John's right and your image hates you | 15:25 |
| BobBall | Bad image! | 15:25 |
| ijw | At this time of the morning it's probably just decided to down tools and get a coffee | 15:25 |
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| BobBall | Using CONF.compute.image_ref which is what lots of others use too | 15:26 |
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| BobBall | Late afternoon here ijw... Does that mean it's time to down tools and get a cup of tea and cake? | 15:26 |
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| johnthetubaguy | BobBall: hmm, that sounds reasonable enough | 15:26 |
| BobBall | johnthetubaguy: But we were 'agreed' that it looked like a race... | 15:27 |
| BobBall | because some runs definitely pass | 15:27 |
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| BobBall | oh hang on again sorry I'm getting fixated on config drive | 15:27 |
| BobBall | which is _not_ the issue, right? | 15:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | BobBall: it passes sometimes and not others, so it has to be right, it could be bad state shared between tests when they get reordered | 15:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | but thats not xenapi specific | 15:27 |
| BobBall | Agreed. | 15:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | BobBall: unsure, coming up and not getting a ip could be and issues, but that assumes it actually started | 15:28 |
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| ijw | BobBall: you're down the road from the pub, it's probably work just popping over there to see if that's where it's gone | 15:28 |
| ijw | And you might as well have a pint while you're at it | 15:28 |
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| BobBall | Might as well. | 15:29 |
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| BobBall | OK | 15:30 |
| BobBall | I'm going in circles here | 15:30 |
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| BobBall | Anyway.... | 15:31 |
| BobBall | Long story short | 15:31 |
| BobBall | I disabled the test | 15:31 |
| BobBall | so the CI is back commenting on changes | 15:31 |
| BobBall | not voting though | 15:31 |
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| BobBall | Gets us over this initial hurdle | 15:32 |
| BobBall | Tests can be re-run by removing it from the tempest_exclusion_list in stackforge/xenapi-os-testing and they get picked up so you can re-run multiple times | 15:33 |
| BobBall | changes to xenapi-os-testing get picked up by the CI I mean | 15:33 |
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| BobBall | Any more on CI johnthetubaguy? | 15:36 |
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| ijw | johnthetubaguy failed CI, sorry | 15:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | not really I am afraid | 15:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | we should find why it failed, and whats going on first | 15:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | I can try help, ping me tomorrow morning | 15:37 |
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| BobBall | OK, will do. | 15:37 |
| BobBall | I don't think I've got anything more to add | 15:38 |
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| BobBall | #topic AOB | 15:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "AOB (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:38 | |
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| BobBall | Just one from me - if you know anyone in Nanjing who wants to work on OpenStack, tell them to apply to Citrix. | 15:38 |
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| BobBall | And that's all :) | 15:39 |
| BobBall | johnthetubaguy - anything from you? | 15:39 |
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| johnthetubaguy | nothing big from me, except | 15:39 |
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| johnthetubaguy | lets look out for rc1 stuff | 15:40 |
| BobBall | What do you mean, look out for it? | 15:40 |
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| BobBall | Review it, CI it, find more stuff that we want in RC1? ;) | 15:41 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I mean RC2 really | 15:41 |
| johnthetubaguy | lets just keen an eye out for major issues | 15:41 |
| johnthetubaguy | like this one :) | 15:42 |
| BobBall | Yes | 15:42 |
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| BobBall | I am worried that this might go out in the release if we can't figure it out in time... | 15:42 |
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| BobBall | Unfortunately because it's just showing in our CI it's likely to just be us trying to fix it unless we can find a case that reproduces elsewhere | 15:42 |
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| BobBall | OK - anyway - I think we're done. | 15:44 |
| BobBall | So I'll call it there. | 15:44 |
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| BobBall | Next meeting in a fortnight, so Thursday 30th April | 15:44 |
| BobBall | no sorry | 15:44 |
| BobBall | Wednesday 29th April! | 15:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool, thanks | 15:44 |
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| BobBall | #endmeeting | 15:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:44 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Apr 15 15:44:49 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | sorry, I will try be more attentive next time! | 15:44 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2015/xenapi.2015-04-15-15.00.html | 15:44 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2015/xenapi.2015-04-15-15.00.txt | 15:44 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2015/xenapi.2015-04-15-15.00.log.html | 15:44 |
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| e0ne | hi! | 15:58 |
| geguileo | e0ne: hi | 15:58 |
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| kmartin | o/ | 15:59 |
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| thingee | #startmeeting cinder | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 15 16:00:01 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is thingee. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:00 |
| thingee | hi everyone! | 16:00 |
| deepakcs | o/ | 16:00 |
| eharney | hi | 16:00 |
| winston-d_ | o/ | 16:00 |
| smcginnis | o/ | 16:00 |
| jungleboyj | o/ | 16:00 |
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| rhe00 | hi | 16:00 |
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| cebruns | Hi | 16:00 |
| Swanson | hi | 16:00 |
| scottda | hi | 16:00 |
| geguileo | hi | 16:00 |
| DuncanT | hi | 16:00 |
| jgravel | hello | 16:00 |
| * bswartz thinks that thingee tries to time to meeting to start at EXACTLY 1600 | 16:00 | |
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| thingee | bswartz: I'm a little ocd yes | 16:00 |
| rushiagr | o/ | 16:00 |
| thingee | :) | 16:00 |
| jungleboyj | bswartz: Sounds like something thingee would do. | 16:00 |
| jungleboyj | :-) | 16:00 |
| thingee | annoucements! | 16:00 |
| thingee | liberty summit proposals! | 16:01 |
| thingee | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-February/057383.html | 16:01 |
| xyang2 | hi | 16:01 |
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| asselin | o/ | 16:01 |
| ameade | o/ | 16:01 |
| akerr | o/ | 16:01 |
| thingee | please submit them to the etherpad listed in the mailing list post. | 16:01 |
| patrickeast | o/ | 16:01 |
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| li_zhang | hi | 16:01 |
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| rushil | hi | 16:01 |
| thingee | also we have a bit less that require fish bowl. | 16:01 |
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| e0ne | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/cinder-liberty-proposed-sessions | 16:01 |
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| thingee | I will be reviewing them to make sure this is correct, but if you need user input, please consider using the fish bowl session type | 16:02 |
| bswartz | thingee: that mail gives a date of April 27 which is a Monday | 16:02 |
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| thingee | otherwise I will be releasing these back in the summit pool for other projects to use. | 16:02 |
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| thingee | bswartz: yeah we'll do the follow wednesday doh! | 16:02 |
| bswartz | is the real deadline april 29? | 16:02 |
| thingee | sure | 16:02 |
| thingee | I'll send a correcting email | 16:03 |
| bswartz | k | 16:03 |
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| thingee | also potential rc bugs | 16:03 |
| thingee | https://bugs.launchpad.net/cinder/+bugs?field.tag=kilo-rc-potential | 16:03 |
| vilobhmm11 | thingee : sorry just joined; we are talking about dealine for liberty specs you mean | 16:03 |
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| thingee | if you're looking for something to review, please look there. Also if you have something pressing, please tag it with 'kilo-rc-potential' | 16:03 |
| bswartz | vilobhmm11: deadline for design summit proposals | 16:03 |
| thingee | I review these so I'll remove something if it's not really blocking. | 16:03 |
| thingee | but I will talk to you first | 16:04 |
| thingee | vilobhmm11: yes | 16:04 |
| vilobhmm11 | bswartz : sure | 16:04 |
| thingee | err yeah liberty summit talks | 16:04 |
| thingee | I will be opening liberty specs https://review.openstack.org/#/c/173675/ | 16:04 |
| thingee | already audited and moved old specs around | 16:04 |
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| avishay | hi | 16:05 |
| thingee | ok any other announcements before we begin? | 16:05 |
| e0ne | thingee: may be merge https://review.openstack.org/#/c/149449/ first is a good idea | 16:05 |
| vilobhmm11 | thats cool | 16:05 |
| thingee | e0ne: sure | 16:05 |
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| vilobhmm11 | eone : +1 | 16:06 |
| thingee | I'll start pushing stuff later today | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | sigh.... more paper work | 16:06 |
| thingee | thanks everyone! | 16:06 |
| vilobhmm11 | nova already has that | 16:06 |
| thingee | jgriffith: I've spoke to you directly about the use case section and you said it was a good idea. | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | thingee: it is | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | thingee: but the whole spec thing in general is out of control | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | thingee: but no need to derail meeting on this | 16:07 |
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| jungleboyj | :-) | 16:07 |
| thingee | and technically it's not *more*, it's break the problem description up | 16:07 |
| thingee | breaking* | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | thingee: ok boss | 16:07 |
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| thingee | the problem description mentions use cases, but people seem to miss it and then we end up giving a -1 anyways at the beginning because people don't list. I figured this would help avoid that. | 16:08 |
| bswartz | I dislike specs repos, but if you're going to have and use one, at least do it right | 16:08 |
| thingee | #topic active-active-[active...] cinder volume services | 16:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "active-active-[active...] cinder volume services (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:09 | |
| thingee | DuncanT: hi | 16:09 |
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| DuncanT | Hi | 16:09 |
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| DuncanT | So I've been told my highest current priority is making active/active cinder-volume service work, bug free | 16:10 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | hello | 16:10 |
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| winston-d_ | DuncanT: by mgmt? | 16:10 |
| avishay | DuncanT: cinder-api too? | 16:10 |
| DuncanT | I know of a bunch of issues with doing this, but I'm sure people know more, and I'd like a complete list of known or suspected issues | 16:10 |
| DuncanT | winston-d_: Yeah | 16:10 |
| bswartz | DuncanT: have you talked with vishy on that topic? | 16:10 |
| thingee | I would say active/active and the rpc compat work for rolling upgrades in liberty. | 16:10 |
| bswartz | I think he has experience making it work | 16:10 |
| DuncanT | avishay: API already works? | 16:10 |
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| jbernard | i dont think so | 16:11 |
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| hemna | The API from nova -> cinder has to change to make active active work correctly | 16:11 |
| hemna | we've already seen that with just trying to remove the volume manager locks | 16:11 |
| hemna | nova craps out | 16:11 |
| avishay | DuncanT: need atomic volume state updates (currently it gets the volume from DB, checks things, then updates - not atomic) | 16:11 |
| e0ne | DuncanT: it dosn't work in Juno. i've got several raises few months ago | 16:11 |
| winston-d_ | FWIW, we have been using active-active-active since day 1 | 16:11 |
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| DuncanT | hemna: That's on the list | 16:11 |
| avishay | hemna: +1 | 16:11 |
| winston-d_ | no major issue related to that | 16:11 |
| DuncanT | hemna: If you have any specifics, please pass them on | 16:11 |
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| avishay | winston-d_: with all backends? | 16:12 |
| hemna | DuncanT, sure, we can take it off line in cinder channel if you like. | 16:12 |
| DuncanT | winston-d_: Kick off a tight loop of random creates, deletes, snaps, creates from snaps, it ends up in a mess | 16:12 |
| geguileo | DuncanT: I've looked into the atomic state changes and it's not ready | 16:12 |
| hemna | winston-d_, it will eventually fail if you don't remove the volume manager locks | 16:12 |
| DuncanT | hemna: Sure, no point taking up meeting time, just trying to get anybody who's found issues to contact me | 16:12 |
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| vilobhmm11 | geguileo : can you point us to those changes ? | 16:13 |
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| jbernard | DuncanT: email? or etherpad? what's preferred? | 16:13 |
| winston-d_ | DuncanT: in our use cases, we don't see much of issue with active-active | 16:13 |
| geguileo | vilobhmm11: No, no changes yet, just had a look into ways to solve the issue | 16:13 |
| DuncanT | geguileo: I might have a crude first pass at that that might help, need to talk to an oslo.db person to check if it is feasible | 16:13 |
| e0ne | DuncanT: i try to reproduce my past issues and will contact you | 16:13 |
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| smcginnis | Etherpad might be good so those interested can at least see what's going on. | 16:13 |
| DuncanT | e0ne: Thanks, that's exactly what I was hoping people would say :-) | 16:13 |
| winston-d_ | avishay: most of deployment has only limited backend(s) | 16:13 |
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| jgriffith | winston-d_: you're not alone | 16:14 |
| vilobhmm11 | DuncanT : I would also send you details of issues i have been seeing | 16:14 |
| geguileo | DuncanT: I have a working test code (out of Cinder) with multiple workers accessing same row in a Galera cluster | 16:14 |
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| DuncanT | vilobhmm11: Thanks | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | winston-d_: I know of at least one other customer doing A/A since H | 16:14 |
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| DuncanT | We have A/A test machines, if you're gentle (i.e. normal workloads) it is fine | 16:14 |
| e0ne | jgriffith: haproxy? | 16:14 |
| DuncanT | If you push it hard, it breaks | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: name something in OpenSTack that doesn't :) | 16:15 |
| smcginnis | Hah | 16:15 |
| jungleboyj | jgriffith: :-) | 16:15 |
| e0ne | DuncanT: any thoughts about test automation for it? | 16:15 |
| winston-d_ | e0ne: relies on rabbit actually | 16:15 |
| winston-d_ | e0ne: no LB is required | 16:15 |
| DuncanT | e0ne: Rally scenarios initially, can do something smarter once they pass | 16:15 |
| e0ne | we still allows cinder-volume to change DB:( | 16:16 |
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| winston-d_ | e0ne: why not? | 16:16 |
| bswartz | winston-d_: haproxy is necessary if you want to actually use more than one cinder-api instance | 16:16 |
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| winston-d_ | bswartz: ah, for cinder-api, we have LB. but c-vol, no | 16:16 |
| e0ne | winston-d_: w/o distributed locks it will generate raise conditions | 16:16 |
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| bswartz | yes | 16:17 |
| avishay | e0ne: as long as the changes are atomic (i.e., check and set), it should work, no? | 16:17 |
| hemna | e0ne, that's what I was saying earlier about the local locks in the volume manager. it will eventually break. | 16:17 |
| e0ne | winston-d_: i mean if we'll deploy more than one cinder-volume | 16:17 |
| e0ne | hemna: +1 | 16:17 |
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| jbernard | avishay: yes, but that isn't what we have at the moment | 16:17 |
| vilobhmm11 | avishay: agree …need atomic transaction….DuncanT : may be a good idea to drop email to openstack-dev and get some more corner cases other people might have seen and also some feedback from oslo people… | 16:17 |
| winston-d_ | e0ne: i know, we have 3, in every region | 16:17 |
| bswartz | if anyone has looked as the oslo concurrency code, it has support for distributed locking | 16:17 |
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| hemna | you can run 2 cinder volume services on 2 hosts as long as they aren't managing the same volumes. | 16:18 |
| thingee | ok DuncanT, so are you going to be working with folks like e0ne harlowja_away and dulek ? ... or | 16:18 |
| bswartz | not sure I'd trust it but it's there | 16:18 |
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| geguileo | bswartz: Do you mean the external synchronized option? | 16:18 |
| bswartz | geguileo: I think that's the one | 16:18 |
| e0ne | hemna: absolutely | 16:18 |
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| geguileo | bswartz: That uses a file for the lock | 16:18 |
| DuncanT | thingee: Once I've got a list of all the problems, I'll be working with anybody and everybody I think can help fix them | 16:18 |
| geguileo | bswartz: So you need to have the file shared among all instances | 16:19 |
| DuncanT | thingee: We need a parallel attach on this to make any progress | 16:19 |
| thingee | DuncanT: there are some patches already up that begin to work on this problem. | 16:19 |
| vilobhmm11 | thingee : the patch i propose for micro_states handles these atomic transations that avishay mentioned, jfyi… | 16:19 |
| hemna | so if that's what you mean by active-active, then yah that will probably work. but to me active-active means 2 different hosts running the same driver talking to the same backend, managing the same volumes. | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: I'd love to help eliminate the stupid frikin locks everywhere :) | 16:19 |
| geguileo | There are at least other 2 solutions I have tried that work without the need of using those locks | 16:19 |
| thingee | DuncanT: ^ | 16:19 |
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| DuncanT | thingee: Parts of this problem, yes | 16:19 |
| hemna | jgriffith, +1 | 16:19 |
| hemna | jgriffith, this all feathers into the nova -> cinder api changes needed. | 16:19 |
| DuncanT | thingee: One thing we don't have is a list of all of the known parts of the problem, I want to start there | 16:19 |
| thingee | DuncanT: it would be good for you to test those out and sign off. maybe help those that are doing summit session coming up | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | since nobody is going to work on fixing the problem of us NEVER cleaning them up maybe we can just quit using them | 16:20 |
| DuncanT | thingee: Most of them don't detail what problem they are fixing | 16:20 |
| hemna | jgriffith, well, we tried to do it in kilo. but failed because of breaking nova in the process. | 16:20 |
| thingee | DuncanT: so help those to detail what problems they fix. Since you can verify there is a problem, you can pull those patches in and try them out | 16:21 |
| geguileo | DuncanT: How do you suggest we go about creating the list of all parts of the problem? | 16:21 |
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| thingee | DuncanT: I just want to make sure that we don't duplicate effort and use what people have developed last release if we agree with the approach | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | hemna: I think we're talking about two different things :) | 16:21 |
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| DuncanT | geguileo: Initially, throw them all at me and I'll try to collate them and raise bugs | 16:21 |
| e0ne | geguileo, DuncanT: omo, ehterpad will be good for it | 16:21 |
| hemna | fixing the locks ? | 16:21 |
| DuncanT | thingee: Absolutely. I just want to start with the list | 16:21 |
| hemna | heh | 16:21 |
| e0ne | s/omo/imo | 16:21 |
| geguileo | e0ne: I agree, an Etherpad would be good, with brief explanation of each issue so we can see the whole picture | 16:22 |
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| DuncanT | etherpad is good, irc is good, email is good, I'll certainly be working via an etherpad | 16:22 |
| e0ne | :) | 16:22 |
| thingee | dulek, e0ne, vilobhmm11 any of the efforts you're doing, can you please work with DuncanT on which things on his compiled list are handled by which patch(es)? | 16:22 |
| winston-d_ | +1 for etherpad | 16:22 |
| geguileo | +1 for etherpad | 16:22 |
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| vilobhmm11 | thingee : sure will do... | 16:23 |
| e0ne | thingee: sure, i'll do | 16:23 |
| deepakcs | +1 for etherpad | 16:23 |
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| thingee | DuncanT: can you make a etherpad now so I can link it in the meeting notes? | 16:23 |
| thingee | #action DuncanT will be compiling a list of know active/active issues | 16:23 |
| vilobhmm11 | DuncanT : please include me in any conversation regarding this problem; would be happy to help | 16:23 |
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| DuncanT | vilobhmm11: Will do | 16:24 |
| thingee | #action dulek vilobhmm11 e0ne will match which patch(es) already posted will fix known issues from DuncanT's list | 16:24 |
| DuncanT | thingee: Doing it now | 16:24 |
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| e0ne | does sheduler work in A-A? | 16:24 |
| smcginnis | If/when we have something working, it would be good to also get some documentation together to make sure new code isn't introduced that breaks HA. | 16:24 |
| winston-d_ | e0ne: yes, in our case | 16:24 |
| avishay | e0ne: i believe so | 16:24 |
| hemna | smcginnis, +1, that's good for reviewers as well | 16:24 |
| DuncanT | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/cinder-active-active-vol-service-issues | 16:24 |
| e0ne | how does it receive capabilities reports? | 16:24 |
| DuncanT | e0ne: Yes, everything works except c-vol | 16:25 |
| thingee | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/cinder-active-active-vol-service-issues | 16:25 |
| winston-d_ | e0ne: vol-stats update is a fanout | 16:25 |
| DuncanT | e0ne: the broadcast for that just works | 16:25 |
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| e0ne | DuncanT: glad to know it:) | 16:25 |
| DuncanT | e0ne: The scheduling becomes slightly none-deterministic, but not in a bad way | 16:25 |
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| e0ne | winston-d_: it works in our case too, but i was asking about out-of-the-box | 16:26 |
| thingee | DuncanT: anything else? | 16:26 |
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| DuncanT | That's it for now, thanks | 16:26 |
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| vilobhmm11 | it would be nice to keep state management away from schedule | 16:26 |
| thingee | #topic open discussion | 16:26 |
| winston-d_ | e0ne: yes, we use it out-of-the-box | 16:26 |
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| vilobhmm11 | scheduler* | 16:26 |
| e0ne | winston-d_: great! | 16:26 |
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| e0ne | i'll check how it works in our case | 16:27 |
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| e0ne | what do you think about https://github.com/openstack/openstack-specs/blob/master/specs/no-downward-sql-migration.rst? | 16:27 |
| DuncanT | vilobhmm11: I don't think that is possible | 16:27 |
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| e0ne | downgrades is painful at least for sqlite | 16:27 |
| vilobhmm11 | DuncanT : agree | 16:27 |
| hemna | winston-d_, but do you use c-vol services on different hosts to manage the same volumes/arrays? | 16:27 |
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| DuncanT | e0ne: Testing object code is hard without downgrades | 16:28 |
| e0ne | DuncanT: good point | 16:28 |
| rushiagr | is c-vol not A-A-able coz it maintains some state? | 16:28 |
| winston-d_ | hemna: yes, of course | 16:28 |
| hemna | winston-d_, ok you are playing with fire then :) It will fail. | 16:28 |
| e0ne | :) | 16:28 |
| DuncanT | rushiagr: Correct | 16:28 |
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| winston-d_ | hemna: almost 2 years, things are fine | 16:29 |
| vilobhmm11 | rushiagr : right | 16:29 |
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| winston-d_ | hemna: maybe it is just our users behave | 16:29 |
| smcginnis | Just so it is also captured here - tentative schedule for Liberty release is: | 16:29 |
| smcginnis | L1: June 25, L2: July 30, L3: Spet 3, Release Oct 15 | 16:29 |
| thingee | ok seems like we have no topics for open discussion. we can continue this chat in #openstack-cinder | 16:29 |
| vilobhmm11 | if we are done with no-sql downgrade discussion | 16:29 |
| vilobhmm11 | i have one | 16:29 |
| vilobhmm11 | what is our plan for heirarchical projects | 16:30 |
| vilobhmm11 | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/cinder-nested-quota-driver | 16:30 |
| vilobhmm11 | thingee, DuncanT, other cores : ^^ | 16:30 |
| rushiagr | vilobhmm11: is hierarchical multitenancy part supported by keystone already? I thought it's still some way to complete.. | 16:30 |
| li_zhang | hemna: we did also, 3 volume hosts each has 8 volume services managing one array | 16:30 |
| vilobhmm11 | yes its part of keystone in kilo | 16:30 |
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| vilobhmm11 | as every other project is moving toward heriarchical support i guess we should also think in that direction | 16:31 |
| thingee | vilobhmm11: well for one thing, we need to remove the deprecated code in DBQuoteDriver | 16:31 |
| thingee | :) | 16:31 |
| vilobhmm11 | sure… | 16:31 |
| DuncanT | thingee ++ | 16:31 |
| hemna | winston-d_, it's just a matter of time, or timing, literally. | 16:31 |
| e0ne | thingee: +1 | 16:32 |
| vilobhmm11 | do you think this a s apriority for liberty ? | 16:32 |
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| winston-d_ | thingee: anyone working on that that you are aware of? | 16:32 |
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| thingee | winston-d_: nope | 16:32 |
| vilobhmm11 | winston-d_ : i have a spec out there for review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/173141/ if anyone wants to have a look in there free time | 16:33 |
| thingee | winston-d_: https://bugs.launchpad.net/cinder/+bug/1435807 | 16:33 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1435807 in Cinder "Volume type quotas trigger deprecation notification" [High,Triaged] - Assigned to Anton Arefiev (aarefiev) | 16:33 |
| thingee | winston-d_: I take that back | 16:34 |
| winston-d_ | vilobhmm11: thx | 16:34 |
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| thingee | vilobhmm11: ok seems like you're already on top of it :) | 16:35 |
| thingee | we will review after L specs opens | 16:35 |
| DuncanT | vilobhmm11: For a first pass, I suggest skipping the updating of quotas by anybody except admin, just do nested quota support | 16:35 |
| vilobhmm11 | thingee : :) sure…please do | 16:35 |
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| thingee | anything else? | 16:35 |
| DuncanT | vilobhmm11: Then add the editing by none-admin later | 16:35 |
| thingee | anybody? | 16:35 |
| vilobhmm11 | DuncanT : sure…appreciate your feedback | 16:35 |
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| thingee | ok thanks everyone! | 16:36 |
| thingee | #endmeeting | 16:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:36 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Apr 15 16:36:35 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:36 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2015/cinder.2015-04-15-16.00.html | 16:36 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2015/cinder.2015-04-15-16.00.txt | 16:36 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2015/cinder.2015-04-15-16.00.log.html | 16:36 |
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| geguileo | Cheers | 16:36 |
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| notmyname | swift team meeting time | 19:00 |
| notmyname | #startmeeting swift | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 15 19:00:56 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'swift' | 19:01 |
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| notmyname | who's here for the swift team meeting? | 19:01 |
| mattoliverau | o/ | 19:01 |
| cschwede | o/ | 19:01 |
| ho | o/ | 19:01 |
| kota_ | o/ | 19:01 |
| jrichli_ | Here | 19:01 |
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| acoles | hi | 19:01 |
| wbhuber | o/ | 19:01 |
| minwoob | o/ | 19:01 |
| gvernik | hello | 19:01 |
| notmyname | good group here | 19:02 |
| cutforth | hello | 19:02 |
| notmyname | clayg: hurricanerix: courtesy ping | 19:02 |
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| notmyname | peluse is out at a meeting. torgomatic has another commitment | 19:02 |
| notmyname | ok, let's get started | 19:02 |
| notmyname | agenda is at | 19:02 |
| notmyname | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Swift | 19:02 |
| clayg | o/ | 19:02 |
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| notmyname | #topic EC status | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "EC status (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:03 | |
| notmyname | had to get the ling | 19:03 |
| notmyname | *link | 19:03 |
| notmyname | #link https://github.com/openstack/swift/commit/e910f7e07d05dd2c6ada939d5704c3d4944c24b0 | 19:03 |
| notmyname | there it is! on master! | 19:03 |
| notmyname | thank you everyone | 19:03 |
| kota_ | great! | 19:04 |
| ho | cool! | 19:04 |
| tsg_ | awesome!! :) | 19:04 |
| notmyname | I've said this many times before, and I'll keep saying it: this is a huge feature that has been a whole-community effort. thank you | 19:04 |
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| notmyname | as a follow up to that, the feature/ec and feature/ec_review branches are gone | 19:05 |
| notmyname | feature/ec has been tagged for historic purposes | 19:05 |
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| notmyname | but you can no longer submit reviews to them | 19:05 |
| notmyname | and the rest of the pending changes have landed on master | 19:05 |
| notmyname | we have a 2.3.0rc1 tag | 19:05 |
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| notmyname | unless major issues are discovered, then this will be our 2.3.0 release and included in openstack kilo on april 30 | 19:06 |
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| notmyname | master is unfrozen | 19:06 |
| notmyname | any questions on ec, the RC, or the release? | 19:06 |
| wbhuber | just one minor q | 19:06 |
| kota_ | notmyname: one thing. | 19:06 |
| notmyname | wbhuber: first | 19:06 |
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| kota_ | notmyname: ok, waiting | 19:07 |
| wbhuber | in the doc link, development_saio.rst, that has yet to include python_pyeclib as a dependency | 19:07 |
| clayg | isn't that what requirements.txt is for? | 19:07 |
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| wbhuber | yes, but requirements.txt comes after installing swift | 19:08 |
| clayg | I thought the docs only listed out like system packages which need to be installed | 19:08 |
| clayg | wbhuber: i'm not sure I follow - can you do a patch or open a doc bug? | 19:08 |
| notmyname | hmm..looks like it doesn't actually have a step to install swift's requirements.txt | 19:08 |
| notmyname | it does for swiftclient | 19:08 |
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| wbhuber | i could open a doc bug | 19:09 |
| tsg_ | wbhuber: at the moment, we didn't have rpm format pkgs generally available for pyeclib and liberasurecode yet | 19:09 |
| tsg_ | only Debian packages | 19:09 |
| notmyname | wbhuber: looks like an oversight. a bug (in swift) or evena patch to the .rst file would be great! | 19:09 |
| wbhuber | i see | 19:09 |
| clayg | notmyname: well the setup.py will do it - it's all pbr'd and setup.cfg - probably won't work unless you pip install -e . | 19:09 |
| tsg_ | so we decided to stick with pypi | 19:09 |
| wbhuber | there's a patch but not implemented, i think - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/169990/6..20/doc/source/development_saio.rst | 19:09 |
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| clayg | so I have given up on setup.py develop - it just never works with any version of setuptools you're likely to have installed on any release that's reasonable to develop on | 19:10 |
| wbhuber | ok | 19:10 |
| notmyname | clayg: womm | 19:10 |
| clayg | cschwede and I recently fixed vagrant-swift-all-in-one by using pip install -e . | 19:10 |
| clayg | notmyname: you almost cirtainly would have pip installed pyeclib by hand then | 19:10 |
| notmyname | clayg: yup. totally did | 19:10 |
| cschwede | clayg: yeah, and i can confirm that a fresh vagrant-saio has pyeclib installed | 19:10 |
| clayg | or pip install -r requirements.txt - same different | 19:10 |
| notmyname | yeah | 19:10 |
| wbhuber | ok nifty | 19:11 |
| notmyname | wbhuber: ok, so there's a gap in the SAIO docs. can you open a bug or submit a patch? | 19:11 |
| clayg | cschwede: and it doesn't installed it *explicitly* - it just lets' setuptools/pbr/pip do it - but you cant spell it setup.py develop - you have to say pip install -e . | 19:11 |
| clayg | pbr hasn't trained you all to do this yet!? | 19:11 |
| wbhuber | i'll submit a patch | 19:11 |
| notmyname | wbhuber: thanks! | 19:11 |
| notmyname | kota_: you have a question? | 19:11 |
| kota_ | notmyname: ok | 19:12 |
| kota_ | notmyname: I know current reconstructor doing decode/encode because of the jerasure bug and we need to bump it later than Kiko. If you have a schedule for that, could I have it? | 19:12 |
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| * notmyname looks to tsg_ | 19:12 | |
| tsg_ | kota_: thanks I was about to bring up update to 1.0.7 | 19:12 |
| tsg_ | notmyname: that might be one requirements update that we'll need to take in | 19:12 |
| tsg_ | (pyeclib-1.0.7) | 19:12 |
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| clayg | also 1.0.7 will allow xor 3-3 yeah!? | 19:13 |
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| notmyname | tsg_: pre kilo? | 19:13 |
| tsg_ | clayg: correct! | 19:13 |
| hurricanerix | notmyname: sorry, i am here =) | 19:13 |
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| notmyname | hurricanerix: hi! | 19:13 |
| tsg_ | notmyname: 1.0.7 has a number of bugs ironed out, so I recommend pre-K, yes | 19:13 |
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| clayg | notmyname: not before kilo - once liberty opens | 19:13 |
| notmyname | tsg_: clayg: you just said 2 different things :-) | 19:13 |
| clayg | tsg_: how are we going to pull that off!? | 19:14 |
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| notmyname | I can investigate bumping a dependency pre-kilo, but I don't know much about it right now | 19:14 |
| clayg | notmyname: tsg_: kilo will *work* with 1.0.7 right? but it *requires* at least 1.0.6 - that's a done deal at this point? | 19:14 |
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| tsg_ | clayg: the pypi 1.0.7 release for pyeclib should be available by this afternoon - for requirements, I was hoping we could be explicit | 19:14 |
| tsg_ | clayg: correct .. at least 1.0.6 | 19:15 |
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| notmyname | ok. | 19:15 |
| notmyname | phrased a different way, will kilo break with 1.0.6? | 19:15 |
| notmyname | or, what will break? | 19:15 |
| clayg | notmyname: 1.0.7 isn't even out yet! we've *all* been using 1.0.6 | 19:15 |
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| notmyname | seems that way | 19:15 |
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| tsg_ | clayg: liberasurecode 1.0.7 was waiting on a couple of fixes .. that's released | 19:16 |
| clayg | it's as good as we need, and 1.0.7 will be even better! | 19:16 |
| tsg_ | Kevin and I working on 1.0.7 for this afternoon | 19:16 |
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| notmyname | tsg_: is there something in 1.0.6 that needs to hold the release? | 19:16 |
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| tsg_ | notmyname: some reconstructor related fixes in the jerasure backend | 19:16 |
| tsg_ | those are important | 19:16 |
| notmyname | ie so we can patch/backport/rc2 to get 1.0.7 | 19:16 |
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| notmyname | tsg_: jerasure bugs or liberasurecode bugs? | 19:17 |
| clayg | tsg_: you mean getting rid of the encode/decode hack? that's a liberty dev cycle fix. | 19:17 |
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| tsg_ | notmyname: bugs in the "jerasure" backend in liberasurecode, yes | 19:17 |
| kota_ | notmyname: if we could get 1.0.7 during rc timeline, it would be better to me. | 19:17 |
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| clayg | kota_: tsg_: why do you guys care? if you don't like what's in kilo repackage? | 19:18 |
| notmyname | kota_: what's preventing using 1.0.7 today? | 19:18 |
| clayg | notmyname: a) it's not released b) no one will have time to package it for the kilo release | 19:18 |
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| notmyname | clayg: it's important the the dependency is working at release. I'm not convinced at this point, but I want to get the info | 19:19 |
| kota_ | notmyname: I found decode/encode thing is affecting our backend. | 19:19 |
| clayg | notmyname: (except us - we'll probably re-package swift & pyeclib a few weeks into liberty - but we always do that) | 19:19 |
| cschwede | is there any real risk in using 1.0.6? | 19:19 |
| notmyname | right, that's what I've been trying to ask | 19:19 |
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| tsg_ | there is no risk | 19:20 |
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| notmyname | kota_: will you be able to use the newer version of the dependency? | 19:20 |
| tsg_ | the reconstructors bug has been already fixed in that rev | 19:20 |
| clayg | notmyname: cschwede: sounds like kota_ has some issue with the hack on his plugin? | 19:20 |
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| kota_ | notmyname, tsg_: because we use unique info at encoding to each fragment so when re-encoding the fragment it's not original fragment on our backend. | 19:20 |
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| clayg | notmyname: ok kota_ has a real issue - the hack is acctually casuing a problem | 19:20 |
| notmyname | kota_: will you be able to deploy liberasurecode 1.0.7 with swift 2.3.0 (with >=1.0.6 in the transitive dependency list) | 19:21 |
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| clayg | kota_: I would suggest if we can't bump the depencency (we probably can't) - we *could* roll a rc2 that includes a config option to do use encode/decode *or* rebuilt | 19:21 |
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| clayg | s/rebuilt/rebuild | 19:21 |
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| clayg | notmyname: kota_'s problem isn't 1.0.6 - it's the hack - the question is could he repackage and deploy swift kilo+ instead of swift kilo or do we need an rc2 | 19:22 |
| kota_ | clayg: sounds reasonable, thanks | 19:22 |
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| notmyname | so far, I'd like to leave it as-is, if kota_ can use the newer version with the swift code | 19:22 |
| clayg | notmyname: +10000000 | 19:22 |
| notmyname | oh, wait, is there code in *swift* that is breaking things? or just the dependency | 19:22 |
| clayg | notmyname: kilo is beta - it wasn't tested with all backends - there's been an issue discovered with a non-tested backend - requires a bug fix that we want to do anyway | 19:22 |
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| notmyname | clayg: you don't have to over-sell me ;-) | 19:23 |
| clayg | notmyname: the code would have to change - the 1.0.7 only helps kota_ because it allows us to remove the hack that's breaking him | 19:23 |
| notmyname | swift code or liberasurecode? | 19:23 |
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| clayg | swift code | 19:23 |
| acoles | sounds like kota needs a change in swift code | 19:23 |
| notmyname | ok | 19:23 |
| kota_ | calyg, acoles: exactly, thanks | 19:24 |
| clayg | well he *wants* a change - that we want to - the question is if he *needs* it in kilo and we have to spin an rc2 | 19:24 |
| notmyname | right. I understand now | 19:24 |
| notmyname | thanks | 19:24 |
| notmyname | so, kota_, do you absolutely require an rc2? ie if this isn't in kilo, are you stuck without EC for 6 months until the openstack liberty release? | 19:24 |
| clayg | kota_: what is the problem with kilo (ec beta) having the hack - do you not expect to release/test with swift during liberty anyway? what if we find a new issue 4 weeks from now? | 19:25 |
| notmyname | or can you deploy eg kilo(swift2.3.0)+ a few commits | 19:25 |
| notmyname | clayg: exactly my question | 19:25 |
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| kota_ | notmyname, clayg: ah...thinking... | 19:25 |
| clayg | kota_: :) | 19:25 |
| clayg | kota_: no rush, it's cool ;) | 19:26 |
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| * notmyname would be happy to work with kota_ to set up some 3rd party testing running the NTT EC library | 19:26 | |
| clayg | notmyname: what is the possiblity of an rc2 anyway? I'd love to know if I work hard and find a bug I can fix it - but only if I do it before XYZ | 19:26 |
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| notmyname | clayg: looks like most of the other openstack projects are doing an RC2 next monday I think | 19:26 |
| clayg | notmyname: oh - that's an awesome idea! | 19:27 |
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| clayg | notmyname: I mean the 3rd part testing - not doing an rc2 monday | 19:27 |
| notmyname | :-) | 19:27 |
| clayg | notmyname: but it's good to know we have a little bit of time | 19:27 |
| clayg | notmyname: I'd be just as happy getting it "right enough" on the first go | 19:27 |
| notmyname | kota_: what do you think? | 19:27 |
| clayg | notmyname: i'm also looking into acoles etag issue - trying to understand why the scenario he described which *should* break - is acctually not causing a problem for me in practice | 19:28 |
| acoles | clayg: if we make rebuild configurable but not bump to 1.0.7 then we'd have to make sure you can't select rebuild when using 1.0.6 right? | 19:28 |
| clayg | acoles: "have to" | 19:28 |
| acoles | clayg: wel that could just be because i am wrong | 19:28 |
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| notmyname | yes, me too. it's beta, and I'd really prefer not to do an RC for a non-open driver that the community doesn't have visibility in to | 19:28 |
| clayg | acoles: it's *beta* - you might loose some data | 19:28 |
| notmyname | clayg: also, as much as we put "beta" on it, someone will be using it for prod data somewhere | 19:29 |
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| notmyname | so fix stuff if we can | 19:29 |
| acoles | clayg: notmyname i agree with you both! | 19:29 |
| clayg | notmyname: you're going to give me an ulcer | 19:29 |
| notmyname | kota_: ok, can we come back to this? I want to move on in the meeting | 19:29 |
| kota_ | well, I undestood it's beta and we could do testing as 3rd party so maybe not urgent for the rc, but I'd like to fix it as possible | 19:30 |
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| kota_ | notmyname: thanks to consider that :) | 19:30 |
| notmyname | kota_: yes, I agree with that!!! | 19:30 |
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| notmyname | kota_: I'd totally love a patch to swift master this afternoon as soon as tsg_ has the new version available | 19:30 |
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| clayg | kota_: ok - so your best bet is to find a bug in swift that *requires* a rc2 - then we can slip in the reconstruct config option ;) | 19:31 |
| notmyname | but that wouldn't be in kilo | 19:31 |
| notmyname | yes | 19:31 |
| notmyname | clayg: yes | 19:31 |
| kota_ | clayg thanks! | 19:31 |
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| clayg | yeah that's the other thing - swift development will continue no matter what goes in kilo | 19:31 |
| notmyname | ok, so as things stand now, there is no plan for an RC2. if somethign is found, we'll have one | 19:31 |
| clayg | yay! | 19:31 |
| notmyname | tsg_: and when you get upstream done, please submit a requirements update. no terrible rush on that, but sooner is better than waiting eg until july | 19:32 |
| tsg_ | notmyname: just got a final nod on a patch for 1.0.7 from Kevin - we will have pyeclib uploaded by 2pm PDT | 19:32 |
| notmyname | thanks | 19:32 |
| tsg_ | notmyname: will do | 19:32 |
| notmyname | thanks | 19:32 |
| notmyname | mornign on | 19:32 |
| notmyname | #topic summit planning | 19:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "summit planning (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:32 | |
| clayg | notmyname: i'd like to make sure we do a good job testing swift with the new version of pyeclib | 19:32 |
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| notmyname | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-swift-summit-topics | 19:32 |
| notmyname | clayg: of course! | 19:32 |
| notmyname | that etherpad is our scratch pad for summit planning | 19:33 |
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| notmyname | we will have 6 fishbowl sessions and 10 working sessions | 19:33 |
| notmyname | and all day friday for "open" | 19:33 |
| notmyname | fishbowl == larger session like previous summits | 19:34 |
| notmyname | working == smaller session more similar to a room at a hackathon. focused discussion about code | 19:34 |
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| notmyname | friday will be like friday in paris. open ad-hoc discussions | 19:34 |
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| notmyname | any questions on logistics before we talk about some of the proposals? | 19:35 |
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| mattoliverau | no lets talk proposals :) | 19:36 |
| notmyname | ok, let's go though some of the proposals. I want to get a general sense of popularity of them | 19:36 |
| notmyname | encryption. acoles and jrichli | 19:36 |
| notmyname | current state of on-disk encryption in swift | 19:36 |
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| notmyname | we talked about this at the hackathon, and I'm happy to see work kick off again for it | 19:37 |
| mattoliverau | If you put the word encrytion in, every man and his dog will probably turn up like last summit | 19:37 |
| notmyname | yeah, that leads to my question about it: | 19:37 |
| notmyname | acoles: jrichli: do we need to have a second fishbowl one for it? | 19:37 |
| jrichli | i would be up for it | 19:37 |
| acoles | you mean in addition to a working | 19:37 |
| acoles | ? | 19:38 |
| clayg | notmyname: *two* fishbolw? | 19:38 |
| notmyname | working session schedule titles will be intentionally obfuscated to prevent so many looky-lous from attending and not helping | 19:38 |
| acoles | that makes a fishtank no? :) | 19:38 |
| jrichli | sure | 19:38 |
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| notmyname | yeah, that's what I meant. as second session that is a fishbowl in addition to the existng proposed working session | 19:38 |
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| clayg | notmyname: is that like *our* plan? or are other people doing this? | 19:38 |
| notmyname | clayg: doing what? | 19:38 |
| clayg | intentionally obfuscated | 19:39 |
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| notmyname | that's a global thing for the summit | 19:39 |
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| clayg | lol | 19:39 |
| acoles | lets call it 'various minor improvements' | 19:39 |
| mattoliverau | lol | 19:39 |
| notmyname | lol | 19:39 |
| clayg | acoles: no you title it "said every andriod app evar" | 19:39 |
| notmyname | eg they don't want 300 people in a "docker" session | 19:39 |
| clayg | THERE'S A DOCKER SESSION!? | 19:40 |
| acoles | seriously, we must have a session where we can talk details and work out issues | 19:40 |
| jrichli | acoles: "metadata of metadata" might scare people off :-) | 19:40 |
| notmyname | clayg: not for you! | 19:40 |
| acoles | ie smaller session | 19:40 |
| notmyname | well, except storelets. we'll get to that in a minute | 19:40 |
| acoles | jrichli: you're learning ;) | 19:40 |
| cschwede | we should setup a honeypot session with docker in the title… | 19:40 |
| notmyname | :-) | 19:40 |
| clayg | oh goodness - this is going to be a great summit - i can't wait to see all of ya'll! | 19:40 |
| kota_ | lol | 19:41 |
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| clayg | notmyname: encrytpion needs a working seession too | 19:41 |
| notmyname | ok, I added one | 19:41 |
| notmyname | yeah, it's there | 19:41 |
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| notmyname | cschwede: test framework session | 19:41 |
| clayg | notmyname: how much will the working sessions overlap - can I come to all of them (or the ones that don't lock the door "quick before clayg") | 19:41 |
| notmyname | is this a newbie thing or something with new ideas onw hat to do? | 19:41 |
| notmyname | clayg: no overlap | 19:42 |
| jrichli | I meant it as a newbie thing | 19:42 |
| notmyname | jrichli: ah ok. cschwede put hsi name on it | 19:42 |
| clayg | title looks like newbie thing - but cschwede's a nice guy - he'll probably let us coopt it a bit at the end | 19:42 |
| cschwede | notmyname: intro for newbies, howto add tests for your patches and tests to improve? | 19:42 |
| notmyname | jrichli: cool. we might want to add some other "intro to swift" things to it too | 19:42 |
| jrichli | yes, sorry i wasn't actually there when you called out my name earlier today | 19:42 |
| notmyname | jrichli: cschwede: what do you think of that? | 19:43 |
| acoles | so it could be (a) heres what we have for newbies and (b) what do we need to improve? | 19:43 |
| jrichli | sure, as long as we can get deep and dirty into functests! | 19:43 |
| notmyname | heh ok | 19:43 |
| cschwede | jrichli: i just volunteered, remove me if you like to lead the session! | 19:43 |
| clayg | notmyname: given "all newbie swift" and "how tests work today - how we'd like you to make them better" - i'd be interested in option 2 | 19:43 |
| jrichli | cschwede: that must be a joke | 19:43 |
| notmyname | clayg: kk | 19:43 |
| jrichli | cschwede: I suggested it because I need the info :-) | 19:44 |
| notmyname | ops feedback session | 19:44 |
| notmyname | mattoliverau: put it down | 19:44 |
| notmyname | mattoliverau: I'll work on getting that one also added to the ops track session | 19:44 |
| cschwede | jrichli: k :) | 19:44 |
| mattoliverau | I did, cause I think its useful | 19:44 |
| notmyname | a new feature of the schedule this summit will be that one session can be listed in 2 tracks | 19:44 |
| notmyname | eg swift+ops | 19:44 |
| clayg | killa | 19:44 |
| mattoliverau | I put me down to run it, which I'm happy to do, but also cause I didn't want to volenteer anyone else :) | 19:44 |
| notmyname | ok :-) | 19:44 |
| clayg | i love mattoliverau doing it | 19:45 |
| notmyname | Large Containers | 19:45 |
| mattoliverau | cool | 19:45 |
| clayg | i love mattoliverau doing that one too | 19:45 |
| acoles | do it | 19:45 |
| notmyname | I love this one, because I'd really love to see progress here in liberty!!! | 19:45 |
| clayg | all mattoliverau all the time really | 19:45 |
| gvernik | i like large containers... | 19:45 |
| mattoliverau | lol | 19:45 |
| notmyname | fishbowl or working, though? | 19:45 |
| clayg | umm... hrd to say - probably fishbowl | 19:45 |
| clayg | idk | 19:45 |
| notmyname | bigger group discussing desing and presenting ideas or smaller one talking about the code you've got and with a whiteboard? | 19:45 |
| * notmyname doesn't know if a whiteboard is available | 19:46 | |
| clayg | i want to talk about some with guys high bandwidth and pick some things we think are a) doable b) useful c) moving us to the ultimate goal | 19:46 |
| notmyname | mattoliverau: so far it's just your code, so what do you think? | 19:46 |
| mattoliverau | either really | 19:46 |
| notmyname | mattoliverau: then what's your preference? | 19:46 |
| notmyname | gotta make a choice! | 19:46 |
| clayg | jrichli: i'm really sorry - i used to always say "ya'll" but then in califiornia it's all "you guys" - which seems exclusionariy :\ | 19:46 |
| cschwede | i’d prefer smaller and in-depth talks for it | 19:46 |
| mattoliverau | how about working.. unless there is a fishbowl free and I see how much more of the POC i can get done now that EC it out :) | 19:46 |
| notmyname | ok | 19:47 |
| mattoliverau | ok working for now | 19:47 |
| notmyname | changing policies | 19:47 |
| mattoliverau | s/ok/so/ | 19:47 |
| clayg | whoot! | 19:47 |
| cschwede | yeah! | 19:47 |
| jrichli | clayg: no worries. I grew up in Delaware and said "you guys" | 19:47 |
| notmyname | daisuke isn't here. kota_ do you know of it? | 19:47 |
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| acoles | notmyname: are there any obvious candidates to fill the 6 fishbowls - then everyhting else is working? | 19:48 |
| kota_ | notmyname: oh... either seems fine to him, I think. | 19:48 |
| notmyname | acoles: next, one I think :-) | 19:48 |
| acoles | k | 19:48 |
| notmyname | kota_: thanks | 19:48 |
| notmyname | storelets | 19:48 |
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| acoles | FISHBOWL! | 19:48 |
| notmyname | I think this is a fishbowl session | 19:48 |
| cschwede | large please! | 19:48 |
| notmyname | yeah | 19:48 |
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| notmyname | increase part_power | 19:49 |
| notmyname | it has a variable name in the title. probably a smaller session ;-) | 19:49 |
| acoles | yup | 19:49 |
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| clayg | notmyname: yeah cschwede already has like the hard ring part written - so really it's just figuring out how to merge that and what the next patch would be | 19:49 |
| notmyname | acoles: I love that you submitted this one. also, good luck, sounds hard ;-) | 19:49 |
| clayg | (we might be able to do the first part before vancouver) | 19:49 |
| notmyname | well, ok then | 19:49 |
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| notmyname | ec follow on work for next steps directly related to ec | 19:50 |
| notmyname | I like this one and want it as a workign session | 19:50 |
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| mattoliverau | +1 | 19:50 |
| notmyname | ok | 19:51 |
| notmyname | I added a few at the bottom right before the meeting | 19:51 |
| notmyname | ec overview | 19:51 |
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| notmyname | a fishbowl session | 19:51 |
| acoles | +1 | 19:51 |
| notmyname | as a summary and ops guide and etc. different than the next steps | 19:51 |
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| notmyname | python-swiftclient working session | 19:52 |
| notmyname | to get some next steps there | 19:52 |
| clayg | notmyname: be great if we could sneak in some early performance charictizations | 19:52 |
| clayg | sigh poor swiftclient | 19:52 |
| notmyname | clayg: yeah. start running those tests!! | 19:52 |
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| notmyname | ya, that's why I want to have a working session on swiftclient. so that we do have a plan for the next few months with it | 19:52 |
| notmyname | any objections? | 19:53 |
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| * notmyname looks at clock and realizes this meeting has gone by quickly | 19:53 | |
| mattoliverau | nope sounds good | 19:53 |
| notmyname | acoles: how do you feel about a fast-post session? | 19:53 |
| acoles | +1 | 19:53 |
| notmyname | working session | 19:53 |
| notmyname | ok | 19:53 |
| acoles | happy to lead if you like | 19:54 |
| notmyname | global cluster improvements | 19:54 |
| notmyname | acoles: done :-) | 19:54 |
| notmyname | global cluster improvements is kinda nebulous, but there are a few things to look at | 19:54 |
| notmyname | mabe ;-) | 19:54 |
| kota_ | +1 | 19:54 |
| notmyname | kota_: yeah, I knew YOU'D like it | 19:54 |
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| notmyname | last one there is tape storage | 19:55 |
| cschwede | +2! | 19:55 |
| notmyname | there have been a few things talked about, but not yet in the dev community. I'd like to try to get someone to talk on it | 19:55 |
| notmyname | specifically, IBM and BDE | 19:56 |
| notmyname | anyway, just and idea | 19:56 |
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| notmyname | so, for all of those, this isn't a final list at all, and it's totally unordered | 19:56 |
| clayg | notmyname: isnt' there some specs up that folks wanted to talk about too? | 19:56 |
| clayg | notmyname: should they like... be here? | 19:56 |
| notmyname | please keep adding stuff, and if your name is there to lead, make and etherpad and make an outline | 19:56 |
| notmyname | clayg: yeah, good point | 19:56 |
| notmyname | probably could be one submission for every spec, really | 19:57 |
| acoles | symlinks? | 19:57 |
| notmyname | acoles: CRAZYTOWN | 19:57 |
| cschwede | symlinks+containeralias | 19:57 |
| notmyname | add it! | 19:57 |
| kota_ | ya, simlinks should be there! | 19:57 |
| notmyname | keep adding stuff this week | 19:57 |
| acoles | i'd like a session on that | 19:57 |
| clayg | cschwede: they may be different things - the PUT == full replace nature of object's makes symlinks at the object layer simpler | 19:57 |
| notmyname | I don't have a final date yet, but I'd expect that we'd have a really good idea of sessions by the end of next week | 19:58 |
| cschwede | clayg: yes, different in implementation, but user-api should be similar and aligned i think | 19:58 |
| clayg | cschwede: VERY good point | 19:58 |
| notmyname | later, we'll rank them and schedule them | 19:58 |
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| notmyname | anything else to bring up in the last 2 minutes? | 19:58 |
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| notmyname | keep adding your ideas for the summit to the etherpad | 19:59 |
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| notmyname | I'll add an entry for the specs that are there | 19:59 |
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| notmyname | again thank you, everyone, on your hard work getting EC and 2.3.0 done! | 20:00 |
| mattoliverau | I think we'll need a virtual tdasilva so he can join in.. unless the baby to be will keep him too busy ;) RE:summit | 20:00 |
| notmyname | see you next week (and on IRC) | 20:00 |
| notmyname | mattoliverau: :-) | 20:00 |
| notmyname | mattoliverau: ipads with video chat | 20:00 |
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| notmyname | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Apr 15 20:00:50 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2015/swift.2015-04-15-19.00.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2015/swift.2015-04-15-19.00.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2015/swift.2015-04-15-19.00.log.html | 20:00 |
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| sarob | #startmeeting product-team | 23:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 15 23:00:06 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sarob. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 23:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 23:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: product-team)" | 23:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'product_team' | 23:00 |
| sarob | roll call | 23:00 |
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| barrett | Carol's here | 23:00 |
| geoffarnold | geoff too | 23:00 |
| * sarob o/ | 23:00 | |
| mscohen | mikec as well | 23:00 |
| sarob | helo helo | 23:00 |
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| dttocs | Scott's here | 23:01 |
| sarob | agenda | 23:01 |
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| sarob | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/product-team | 23:01 |
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| sarob | im dragging myself back into the fold | 23:01 |
| Rockyg | o/ | 23:01 |
| sarob | #topic socialization status | 23:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "socialization status (Meeting topic: product-team)" | 23:02 | |
| sarob | whatca got mscohen? | 23:02 |
| mscohen | actually we are waiting to get the last few updates from PTLs | 23:02 |
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| barrett | Is Trove the only one left? | 23:02 |
| mscohen | i believe scott, carol were chasing them down | 23:02 |
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| dttocs | Ironic is done and in the etherpad | 23:03 |
| mscohen | it looks like trove only now | 23:03 |
| barrett | I talked with Eoghan for Ceilometer and am working on getting Nikhil | 23:03 |
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| mscohen | great - so pretty close on wrapping that up | 23:03 |
| Shamail | Hi. | 23:03 |
| * nikhil_k checks if he's the right Nikhil | 23:03 | |
| * sarob is the right sarob? | 23:04 | |
| barrett | here's the email I've used: 'slicknik@gmail.com' | 23:04 |
| barrett | is that right? | 23:04 |
| nikhil_k | nope, sorry guys | 23:04 |
| nikhil_k | he's the other one ;) | 23:04 |
| barrett | Can you give me his email? | 23:05 |
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| nikhil_k | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/172337/ has it | 23:06 |
| barrett | Thanks! | 23:06 |
| dttocs | Also nikhil@manchanda.me | 23:06 |
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| barrett | The review item shows the slicknik email address too | 23:07 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | arakdy here | 23:08 |
| sarob | mscohen so whats after | 23:08 |
| sarob | hey | 23:08 |
| barrett | I'll work on getting the Trove update this week and send a note out the ML when I have it | 23:08 |
| mscohen | ok, other than trove | 23:08 |
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| mscohen | we need to work on the presentation | 23:08 |
| mscohen | need to figure out what team wants to be involved and i think a voice call would be good | 23:08 |
| sarob | what team? | 23:09 |
| barrett | For the Summit or the Cross-project meeting ahead of the Summit? | 23:09 |
| sarob | like project? | 23:09 |
| mscohen | what set of people actually want to help build slides | 23:09 |
| sarob | oh, right | 23:09 |
| geoffarnold | +1 on voice call | 23:09 |
| barrett | +1 | 23:09 |
| Rockyg | +1 | 23:09 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | +1 | 23:10 |
| rosmaita | +1 | 23:10 |
| mscohen | would folks be open to doing it tomorrow at this time? | 23:10 |
| dttocs | +1 | 23:10 |
| rosmaita | maybe at 15 past the hour? | 23:10 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | -1 | 23:10 |
| Rockyg | +1 | 23:10 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | -1 for tomorrow this time. | 23:10 |
| barrett | +1 for tomorrow | 23:10 |
| geoffarnold | +1 | 23:10 |
| sarob | #info trove is the remaining project to gather info on | 23:11 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | Austin OpenSTack meetup tomorrow | 23:11 |
| Rockyg | kewl | 23:11 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | What about all pre-incubation projects? | 23:11 |
| mscohen | its prob worth noting they exist — but maybe not covering all of them? | 23:11 |
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| sarob | we dont use that word anymore :) | 23:12 |
| barrett | I think the incubation projects are a 2nd priority | 23:12 |
| geoffarnold | Stack rank, see which we can get to? | 23:12 |
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| barrett | One we get things going, then we can reachout to them | 23:12 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | As long we have a story as sarob points out we do not use that term anymore | 23:12 |
| sarob | id stick with the projects in hand | 23:12 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | we cannot use core either - but only hwat defcore defines | 23:12 |
| mscohen | i will send out to ML a webex link for tomorrow if thats ok | 23:12 |
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| barrett | sarob +1 | 23:13 |
| sarob | we can point out other non-openstack repo projects are interesting | 23:13 |
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| geoffarnold | Is there a cheat sheet with politically correct terminology? | 23:13 |
| sarob | but we limited our limited scope to just openstack repo projects | 23:13 |
| * rosmaita also needs terminology cheat sheet | 23:13 | |
| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | basic idea applies to them - upgrade, log formats, and a couple of others. | 23:13 |
| dttocs | I think we should stick with the information on the projects we identified, whatever they may be called now. | 23:13 |
| sarob | i was kinda joking about the incubation term | 23:14 |
| sarob | just call them openstack projects | 23:14 |
| sarob | that was always the bump to being incubated | 23:14 |
| Rockyg | Well, there are lots more in the openstack repo, now. but they weren't there for Paris, so how about the world as it was in Paris projects? | 23:14 |
| sarob | getting your code repo moved into the openstack repo org in github | 23:15 |
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| sarob | rockyg: that works for me | 23:15 |
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| sarob | like congress just got added | 23:15 |
| barrett | rockyg: works for me | 23:15 |
| sarob | scope creep | 23:15 |
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| Shamail | Are you discussing the new "official" projects inclusion? | 23:16 |
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| sarob | we can add a bit on we are going to refresh | 23:16 |
| sarob | once we hit pace | 23:16 |
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| sarob | shamail: yup | 23:16 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | I think what we are syaing these are the projects we are coordinating for now. Others will be added in the future | 23:16 |
| sarob | right | 23:16 |
| Shamail | +1 Arkady_Kanevsky_ | 23:16 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | but information we are driving across projects are applicable to all | 23:16 |
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| geoffarnold | right - new projects are likely to be enthusiastic consumers... | 23:17 |
| barrett | +1 Arkady | 23:17 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | +1 <geoffarnold> | 23:17 |
| Rockyg | +1 | 23:17 |
| sarob | Arkady_Kanevsky_: you mind changing your nick to Arkady? | 23:18 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | nope | 23:18 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | will repsond to it | 23:18 |
| sarob | "/nick arkady" | 23:18 |
| sarob | full name is sooo hard to type | 23:18 |
| sarob | and formal | 23:18 |
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| Shamail | Get a better IRC client sarob 😆 | 23:19 |
| geoffarnold | I feel so "white bread" using "geoffarnold", but I have done for years, so... | 23:19 |
| sarob | well i never | 23:19 |
| sarob | ill all good | 23:19 |
| sarob | its all good | 23:19 |
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| sarob | y'all post your meeting date and time to the ML | 23:19 |
| Shamail | I'm just playing. | 23:20 |
| sarob | so others can join in | 23:20 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | There are more and more work that starts in one project and then goes to all others. | 23:20 |
| * sarob no longer speaks to shamail | 23:20 | |
| mscohen | i will send out an email about it | 23:20 |
| mscohen | sounds like most can do this time tomorrow to get a start | 23:20 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | I am looking at nested project hierarchy now. | 23:20 |
| sarob | arkady: nested? | 23:20 |
| Shamail | Sounds good mscohen, although this time for EST is brutal. :( | 23:20 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | yes. nested | 23:21 |
| geoffarnold | NESTED??? | 23:21 |
| Rockyg | mscohen, could we make it earlier for central and east coast? | 23:21 |
| geoffarnold | Inspired by Hierarchical Multitenancy? | 23:21 |
| mscohen | ok, earlier is ok with me | 23:21 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | project, subproject, and so on. with user hierarchy to match | 23:21 |
| geoffarnold | Or H23Y as I call it.... | 23:21 |
| mscohen | what about 11am PT? | 23:21 |
| Shamail | I'll make it. Whatever works for majority | 23:21 |
| dttocs | either is fine for me tomorrow | 23:21 |
| sarob | arkady: we are de-nesting | 23:21 |
| geoffarnold | -1 for morning | 23:22 |
| rosmaita | -1 for morning too | 23:22 |
| barrett | Tomorrow I can meet between 3:00 - 5:00 pacific or 9:00-11:00 AM pacific | 23:22 |
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| sarob | arkady: as the programs are going away | 23:22 |
| Rockyg | Arkady_kanevesky_ is the guy who can't make late. | 23:22 |
| rosmaita | how about later? | 23:22 |
| sarob | so just openstack projects with tags | 23:22 |
| Shamail | Let's stick with this time, especially since you already have notice | 23:22 |
| geoffarnold | I can do 1-2, 3-5 PT | 23:22 |
| Shamail | sarob: +1 tags would be good start | 23:22 |
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| mscohen | ok, i will set it for 3pm PT. seems to work for most and earlier on east coast | 23:23 |
| sarob | im totally slammed tomorrow, so count me out | 23:23 |
| sarob | ill catch up on the ML | 23:23 |
| barrett | sarob/shamail: why not stick with the world as it was inParis? | 23:23 |
| * sarob as we were in paris | 23:23 | |
| Shamail | As a starting point for Vancouver? Sounds good. We do need a scalable plan by Tokyo | 23:23 |
| geoffarnold | K.I.S.S. | 23:23 |
| Rockyg | barrett ++ | 23:24 |
| Shamail | Yep ^ | 23:24 |
| sarob | agreeed | 23:24 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | I think barbican and filesystem as a Service passed incunbation criteraio for Kilo | 23:24 |
| Shamail | Vancouver = integrated-release tags only (which were the integrated projects before this release) | 23:24 |
| Shamail | Tokyo = plan to include all projects with tags | 23:24 |
| sarob | we need to present findings and make some assumptions | 23:24 |
| Rockyg | Barbican, congress, Rally, Mistral, Murano... | 23:24 |
| barrett | Is there really a need to include any add'l projects beyond what we've done so far? | 23:24 |
| Rockyg | Openstack Client | 23:24 |
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| barrett | Seems like a good starting point for the basic process, discussion with PTLs, etc. | 23:25 |
| Rockyg | Zaqzr | 23:25 |
| sarob | there will always be outliers | 23:25 |
| Shamail | They did Arkady... But for this one why don't we keep it to what used to be integrated (not incubated) | 23:25 |
| barrett | For Vancouver, we'll make a call to others in the community and can add more user groups (ex. Telco) as well as other projects. | 23:25 |
| Shamail | Integrated-release tag for now, official tag going forward | 23:25 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | I would include Tempest since it is foundation of CI and devstack | 23:25 |
| sarob | barrett +1 | 23:25 |
| Shamail | +1 to both barrett and Arkady_Kanevsky_ | 23:26 |
| barrett | I don't want us to get stuck in data gathering mode, we have alot of things to do with the data we have | 23:26 |
| sarob | member that we are not trying to be complete | 23:26 |
| barrett | Is tempest part of Infra project? | 23:26 |
| sarob | rather make progress with the concept of the multi-release | 23:26 |
| Rockyg | barrett: no. Its part of the QA Program | 23:26 |
| sarob | plans | 23:26 |
| Shamail | So what did we decide here for Vancouver scope? | 23:26 |
| barrett | sarob +1 | 23:26 |
| Shamail | I would like to limit but be impactful initially | 23:27 |
| geoffarnold | Projects are just one of the dimensions; another is which aspects of each project we attempt to coordinate | 23:27 |
| sarob | i vote we proceed with what we have plus trove | 23:27 |
| barrett | sarob +1 | 23:27 |
| Shamail | +1 sarob | 23:27 |
| mscohen | sarob: +1 | 23:27 |
| geoffarnold | +1 | 23:27 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | +1 | 23:27 |
| Rockyg | +1 | 23:27 |
| sarob | okey dokey | 23:27 |
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| sarob | we beat this topic into submission? | 23:28 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | tempest will be pulled automatically in to any coordination since it is openstrack CI. | 23:28 |
| mscohen | sarob - i think so | 23:28 |
| barrett | yes | 23:28 |
| sarob | we will cover slide tomorrow | 23:29 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | we do not need to include it per se but as part of required eco system for release | 23:29 |
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| sarob | so skipping the second agenda item | 23:29 |
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| barrett | do you want to touch on possible meeting day/time at the summit for this group? | 23:30 |
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| barrett | And session with others in the community? | 23:30 |
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| Shamail | EMC/VMware also have a room that we can use for another half-day face to face session if we want. I wanted to mention this again since the notes were lost from the last meeting. | 23:31 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | yes to f2f. ANy place will do | 23:31 |
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| geoffarnold | Are you thinking of Friday morning? (Given that Friday is working sessions.) | 23:31 |
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| Shamail | If we want to leverage the room I offered that it has to be Monday through Thursday | 23:32 |
| barrett | Seems like having the cross community session early in the week would be good, and then our working meeting later in the week could work | 23:32 |
| barrett | I'm in a book sprint on Friday | 23:32 |
| Shamail | same | 23:32 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | friday is last design day where each project agree what to work on for next release. | 23:32 |
| Rockyg | Monday might be good since there are no design or ops meetings scheduled | 23:32 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | We should attend these. | 23:33 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | Monday works better | 23:33 |
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| geoffarnold | +1 | 23:33 |
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| Shamail | We have our breakout session on Monday | 23:33 |
| Shamail | So it would have to be after that | 23:33 |
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| barrett | We could work over lunch on Monday (12:45 - 2:00) | 23:34 |
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| Shamail | It would be good to regroup with the feedback fresh on our mind. | 23:34 |
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| barrett | Or use that time to reach out to the community and then work after that | 23:34 |
| Shamail | I would have to miss most of it. I present right after our breakout too. | 23:34 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | Thursday dinner? | 23:34 |
| Shamail | Can we do after 2P? | 23:34 |
| barrett | How about using a doodle to find a time? | 23:35 |
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| Shamail | That's a good idea | 23:35 |
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| Shamail | This is for a breakout session, beyond the time provided to us by the foundation. | 23:35 |
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| Shamail | Welcome back sarob | 23:36 |
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| Shamail | Hopefully you still have chair? | 23:36 |
| sarob_ | that was wierd | 23:36 |
| geoffarnold | Hard to schedule Wed/Thur until the Design Summit shed is nailed down, to | 23:36 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | ready to move to our charter> | 23:36 |
| geoffarnold | shed->sched | 23:36 |
| Shamail | Agreed. | 23:36 |
| barrett | Shamail: We need to set the time for our meetings with the foundation - whether it's our group meeting or the other | 23:36 |
| sarob_ | shamail: it will timeout after 10 min | 23:36 |
| barrett | did we decide to use a doodle? | 23:37 |
| Shamail | Sarob, do you have any updates on timings for meeting during the summit? | 23:37 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | yes to doodel | 23:37 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | doodle | 23:37 |
| Shamail | +1 barrett | 23:37 |
| Rockyg | geoffarnold: I think shed might be the right word;-) | 23:37 |
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| barrett | OK - I'll send it out on the ML | 23:37 |
| geoffarnold | sigh. yes | 23:37 |
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| sarob_ | i grabbed two hours right after WTE | 23:38 |
| Shamail | barrett: my offer is in case we want more time for face to face discussions. Agreed that both need to be scheduled. So maybe doodle for official meeting and then we can also ask interest in an extended face to face? | 23:38 |
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| sarob_ | 18 monday, 2-3:30pm | 23:38 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | ok | 23:38 |
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| barrett | shamail +1 | 23:38 |
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| sarob_ | looks like freenode is having issues | 23:39 |
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| Shamail | Cool | 23:39 |
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| Shamail | Yep. | 23:39 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | what is next on agenda? charter? PTL? | 23:40 |
| sarob | do we want to set aside time for xproject as well? | 23:40 |
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| barrett | sarob +1 | 23:40 |
| Shamail | Yes +1 | 23:40 |
| geoffarnold | sarob +1 | 23:40 |
| sarob | arkady: right my topic change didnt take | 23:40 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | do we need time to TCs for it? | 23:40 |
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| Shamail | I will send out my room offer on the ML | 23:40 |
| barrett | I think we should have xproject before a working meeting | 23:40 |
| Shamail | barrett: +1 | 23:41 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | +1 carol | 23:41 |
| sarob | #link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15QBMiX3LKA3zRnDvhXzreRGkw5SuPNpbDwjDBBV3nMc/edit?usp=sharing | 23:41 |
| geoffarnold | +1 | 23:41 |
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| sarob | check it out | 23:41 |
| sarob | i dont want to be greedy, but it makes sense to me | 23:41 |
| Shamail | That schedule looks great | 23:41 |
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| sarob | sweeet | 23:42 |
| barrett | How about reversing the product and xproject times? | 23:42 |
| sarob | sounds good | 23:42 |
| sarob | go for it | 23:42 |
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| barrett | or even 1 wg meeting before the xproject and 1 after? | 23:43 |
| sarob | hmmm | 23:43 |
| barrett | thinking prep and wrapup | 23:43 |
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| Shamail | That will make it hard to dive deep in anything. | 23:43 |
| sarob | i was thinking a block of time | 23:43 |
| sarob | 90 minutes is pretty short | 23:43 |
| barrett | shamail - true | 23:43 |
| sarob | for 15-20+ people | 23:44 |
| barrett | sarob - true | 23:44 |
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| geoffarnold | opinionated people | 23:44 |
| geoffarnold | i'd prefer longer blocks | 23:44 |
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| Rockyg | mouthy, opinionated people ;-) | 23:44 |
| sarob | #topic workflow with xproject, ptls slash our charter | 23:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "workflow with xproject, ptls slash our charter (Meeting topic: product-team)" | 23:45 | |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | 1/2 days is about right with goo division between sessions. | 23:45 |
| sarob | did i capture the topic correctly? | 23:45 |
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| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | anything more and will we start loosing people to other activities | 23:45 |
| sarob | cool | 23:46 |
| Shamail | I think so | 23:46 |
| sarob | #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/13JPDDiBGGXf5dtP0u8C-1So2Mjb3yEmGhv_ijVqyEf0/edit?usp=sharing | 23:46 |
| barrett | sarob: I think it's ok - the focus is what we want to discuss at the cross-project meeting with the PTLs ahead of Vancouver | 23:46 |
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| sarob | barrett: and workflow is what they will want to hear | 23:47 |
| Rockyg | Youve lost me.... | 23:47 |
| sarob | how are we going to work with them and not add extra work | 23:47 |
| Shamail | Workflow + Scope | 23:47 |
| sarob | maybe take some away | 23:47 |
| Shamail | They would want to make sure we are not duplicating their efforts and what value we provide | 23:47 |
| barrett | shamail +1 | 23:47 |
| sarob | def | 23:48 |
| sarob | what we know should be tight | 23:48 |
| Shamail | Yep | 23:48 |
| sarob | what we dont know should be spelled out | 23:48 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | we applify their voices | 23:48 |
| Rockyg | One way is to make sure that what is being sold as priority work for each project is actually wanted be a good sized customer base | 23:48 |
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| sarob | rockyg: lost me | 23:49 |
| sarob | small words plz | 23:49 |
| geoffarnold_ | That Google Docs URL caused Safari to crash | 23:49 |
| sarob | geoffarnold_ my evil plan is complete | 23:49 |
| Rockyg | sorry. so, projects prioritize blueprints. but what if nobody wants what the blueprints are selling? | 23:49 |
| barrett | sarob: LOL | 23:49 |
| Rockyg | Help them weed out outliers on what they want to work on | 23:50 |
| sarob | rockyg: right im with you | 23:50 |
| geoffarnold_ | happens all the time... "abandoned" everywhere | 23:50 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | completes of the story across projects and positioning for markets | 23:50 |
| Rockyg | Yup. | 23:50 |
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| sarob | so we need the workflow to make it | 23:51 |
| geoffarnold_ | still here | 23:51 |
| sarob | for project people to | 23:51 |
| barrett | rockyg +1; what data would we use to demonstrate customer demand? | 23:51 |
| sarob | product i mean | 23:51 |
| Rockyg | Byebye geofarnold..Oops. Hi again. | 23:51 |
| Rockyg | Customer surveys> | 23:51 |
| sarob | to provide input and feedback to ptl | 23:51 |
| Shamail | Chicken and Egg... I think pre-summit we need to state what our charter, what are workflow for accomplishing it looks like, what are gaps currently, and why/how we would like their help | 23:51 |
| sarob | that they can trust isnt biased | 23:51 |
| sarob | on one commercial interest | 23:51 |
| Shamail | At summit and beyond: we can work on use cases population and then blueprints eventually | 23:52 |
| sarob | and has some facts behind it | 23:52 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | Can we start google doc and all comment on it. - too hard to do on IRC | 23:52 |
| barrett | I like the use case approach | 23:52 |
| Rockyg | Yeah. Use cases is real important and more product focused community members are creating them | 23:52 |
| sarob | barrett: so WTE and other wg use a structured use case | 23:53 |
| Rockyg | Telco | 23:53 |
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| sarob | as patches to xproject | 23:53 |
| Shamail | we also need to ensure that we are not just giving them more work and adding developers is a part of the process | 23:53 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | that is not going to sell to PTL. it is marketing telling engineering what to do. we will alienate them | 23:53 |
| sarob | then projects pick up the use cases | 23:53 |
| sarob | work with others to prioritize | 23:53 |
| Rockyg | If we can categorize what they are working on to what the use cases are, Devs can focus on getting the *right* functionality soonest | 23:54 |
| Shamail | Use cases -> project blueprints -> resources to help if you are interested in use case | 23:54 |
| geoffarnold_ | +1 | 23:54 |
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| barrett | shamail +1 | 23:54 |
| Rockyg | and blueprints --> use cases --> scenario tests | 23:55 |
| barrett | The resources is key - and remember there are ~10 companies that provide the majority of the development resources. we'll need to harness this to make it work. | 23:55 |
| Shamail | When do we feel we would be ready for this meeting? | 23:55 |
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| Shamail | Rockyg: +1 | 23:55 |
| geoffarnold_ | And further back, verticals (NFV, WTE, ...) generate requirements w/use cases | 23:55 |
| barrett | Also need a project tracker for each use case - break out requirements by OpenStack project and track progress | 23:55 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | +1 for verticals and requirements. | 23:56 |
| Shamail | barrett: everything we say and do has to end witj ... AND DEVS TO HELP 😄 | 23:56 |
| Rockyg | barrett: you just said a naughty word -- project tracker -- lots of devs think those are EVIL | 23:56 |
| barrett | Shamail - I think we need a phone call amongst this team to get our act together. | 23:56 |
| sarob | okay so lets debate some on the ML how to come up with verticals through a workflow | 23:57 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | +1 barrett | 23:57 |
| dttocs_ | This also goes back to the comments from Nova PTL | 23:57 |
| geoffarnold_ | Use cases explain/support features (epics, whatever - high level biz objectives) | 23:57 |
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| barrett | rockyg: when I've shown the one I created for rolling upgrades I've gotten positive response | 23:57 |
| Shamail | Agreed, we have differing approaches even amongst us. | 23:57 |
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| sarob | yup | 23:57 |
| sarob | part of the fun | 23:57 |
| barrett | Can we put a stake in the ground for when we need to have the PTL discussion? | 23:57 |
| Rockyg | barrett -- project tracker -- needs to be very visual for them to use. Graphs and icons and stuff, not spreadsheets | 23:57 |
| sarob | use cases = epics, blueprints = stories | 23:57 |
| geoffarnold_ | PERT charts FTW | 23:57 |
| Rockyg | sarob: ++ | 23:58 |
| Shamail | sarob: is ML best or should we schedule hangout or call? | 23:58 |
| sarob | that was always my thinking | 23:58 |
| sarob | ML some of the concepts and then schedule a hangout over the ML | 23:58 |
| sarob | is good approach | 23:58 |
| geoffarnold_ | +1 | 23:58 |
| barrett | +1 | 23:58 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | +1 | 23:58 |
| Rockyg | +1 | 23:59 |
| Shamail | Sounds good | 23:59 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky_ | done for today? | 23:59 |
| sarob | #action team debate high level workflow over ML over next few days | 23:59 |
| sarob | #action sarob will propose a hangout after debate, before next IRC meet | 23:59 |
| Shamail | We are at time limit but wanted to share Rockyg PTL noninations etherpd | 23:59 |
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