Wednesday, 2015-04-15

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JRobinson__loquacities, some rh writers just went into a meeting apparently.00:01
loquacitiesit's vewy vewy qwiet00:02
loquacitiesand i have so much to talk to you all about today!00:02
loquacitiesthe agenda is ... fairly long00:02
JRobinson__loquacities, is the meeting at 11 or 10? I thought 1100:02
loquacities10 according to my cal00:02
loquacitiesi might start pinging ppl in the other chan00:03
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loquacitiesmost of the RHers are absent00:05
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loquacitiesand it seems i can't math00:08
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JRobinson__hello all, the APAC docs meeting is set to begin in about 5 minutes. Please stand by.00:55
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JRobinson__We'll begin the APAC docs meeting in about 3 minutes.00:58
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JRobinson__sorry, I'm incorrect, we'll begin a bit later than 11am - 11:15 or so. sorry for the confusion00:59
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adahmsRoger that JRobinson__01:03
Sam-I-Amcan has docs meeting?01:03
JRobinson__thanks adahms01:03
adahmsWe will only be available up until half past ourselves, but will be there from 11:1501:03
JRobinson__Sam-I-Am, we're starting a bit later01:03
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Sam-I-Amhow much later?01:04
JRobinson__10 minutes from now01:05
Sam-I-Amok, maybe enough time to attack the pile of dishes01:05
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loquacitieshi everyone, sorry for the delay01:07
loquacitiesi got caught on a phone call01:07
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loquacities#startmeeting docteam01:08
openstackMeeting started Wed Apr 15 01:08:27 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is loquacities. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.01:08
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: docteam)"01:08
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'docteam'01:08
loquacitiesright, who's here?01:08
dnavalehi loquacities01:08
loquacitieshi deepti!01:08
furfacehey loquacities01:08
bmossI'm in the house01:08
loquacitieshi everyone :)01:09
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asettleSorry! Here! Slow day today01:09
asettleI cannot brain01:09
asettleI haz the dumb01:09
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JRobinson__np, disregard my other message :)01:09
asettleThanks for hte ping JRobinson__ :)01:10
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loquacitiesasettle: know them feels01:10
asettleI don't know what it is, but I am out of my mind exhausted.01:10
loquacities#topic Action items from the last meeting01:10
*** openstack changes topic to "Action items from the last meeting (Meeting topic: docteam)"01:10
loquacitiesthe only action i can find is "asettle to book informal Brisbane meetup for 31 March, and send out invites"01:10
loquacitieswhich of course happened01:11
loquacitiesso, thanks for coming out everyone, it was fun :)01:11
JRobinson__It had a great turnout :)01:11
asettleGlad you could all make it :)01:11
loquacities#topic PTL changes: Anne will complete Kilo, Lana is planning Liberty01:11
*** openstack changes topic to "PTL changes: Anne will complete Kilo, Lana is planning Liberty (Meeting topic: docteam)"01:11
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loquacitiesthat shouldn't be news to anyone, but does anyone have any questions?01:11
JRobinson__Is there any further voting that needs to happen? sorry if obvious01:12
loquacitiesno, it was uncontested01:12
Sam-I-Amloquacities: it just means you're crazy01:12
* JRobinson__ nods01:12
loquacitiesso if you don't like me, you need to nominate yourself next time :P01:12
Sam-I-Ami thought about trying for ptl01:12
loquacitiesas it is, you're now stuck with me for the next six months01:13
Sam-I-Amthen realized that i'm crazy, but not quite insane.01:13
loquacitiesSam-I-Am: apparently, i am01:13
Sam-I-Amare you an alcoholic yet?01:13
loquacitiesalready was01:13
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loquacitiesit was what qualified me to run01:13
loquacitiesok, moving on ...01:13
loquacities#topic Kilo tasks:01:13
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loquacitiesthere's a few things here:01:13
loquacitiesfirst of all, RST publishing is working OK at this stage, with one exception01:14
loquacitiesthere's been some issues with translation where a higher than expected number of strings have remained untranslated01:14
loquacitiesi'm going to be going into the translation meeting on thursday to try and understand that issue better01:14
loquacities(as anne's proxy, i might add)01:14
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loquacitiesthe next topic on kilo is bug triaging01:15
loquacitiesbasically, we need to do some01:15
loquacitiesi believe anne is setting up another bug triage day, but if you have spare time, that's a good task to do this week01:15
asettleSo, um... what happens if RST doesn't work with translation?01:15
asettleAlso, can I question why this wasn't discussed before the RST conversion began? Or was it, and a trial was successful?01:15
Sam-I-Amthe triage issue is fun... because its a lot of things thrown over the fence from devs expecting us to rtfc01:16
loquacitiesasettle: we either delay publishing the translated copies, or publish translated copies with some english strings01:16
loquacitiesSam-I-Am: +101:16
loquacitiesasettle: and so, yes, there was a trial done, but we didn't realise that some of the markup wasn't going to work so well01:16
loquacitiesthere's an issue with backticks, apparently01:16
asettleThat's a bit unfortunate01:16
asettleoh I see01:16
asettleSo you couldn't see all the issues01:16
loquacitiesanyway, my understand is still a bit patchy, which is why i'm going to the meeting01:17
asettleOkay :)01:17
asettlePlease let us know the outcome :)01:17
loquacitiesso hopefully i'll know more soon01:17
loquacitieswill do01:17
Sam-I-Amin bug triage, if we cant figure it out, maybe tag the developer of the patch on it?01:17
loquacitiesthat is sensible, i think01:17
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Sam-I-Amthe rst thing is kind of messy. and now its all loq's mess to clean up :)01:17
loquacitiesalthough a personal ping might be more successful, if possible01:17
loquacitiesSam-I-Am: no it's not, kilo is still anne's problem :P01:18
Sam-I-Amwell, either way... somehow get the dev involved.01:18
Sam-I-Amloquacities: riiiiiiiight01:18
* Sam-I-Am grabs popcorn01:18
loquacities(that's what i keep telling myself, anyway)01:18
Sam-I-Amuh huhhh....01:18
loquacitiesok, the only other topic on kilo tasks is that the networking guide is having a doc day on 23 april01:18
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loquacitiesi might ask Sam-I-Am to elaborate on that when we get to the specialty teams bit, though01:19
Sam-I-Amwhich is also the day i have a dentist appointment :/01:19
loquacitiesif that's ok with you Sam-I-Am?01:19
Sam-I-Ami... guess. it sort of happened while i was away.01:19
loquacitiesoh! coding on anaesthetic!01:19
loquacitiesheh, ok01:19
loquacities#topic Docs specs in review01:19
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loquacitiesthe only one i'm aware of is the first app one:01:20
loquacities#topic Next migration project01:20
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loquacitiesso anne and i have been trying to work out which book to convert to RST next01:20
loquacitiesthere's been a good discussion on the ML about it over the past couple of weeks01:20
loquacitiesand anne has put together a spreadsheet with the factors we want to consider01:21
asettleYeah, it looks painful01:21
loquacitiesso the purpose of this is so we can reorder things how we want01:21
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loquacitiesthere's no real decision yet, but it's an interesting exercise01:21
loquacitiesany questions on that?01:21
loquacities#topic Specialty teams01:22
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JRobinson__is there a lean toward the install guide and admin guide in particular? The large page views are attention grabbing.01:22
loquacitiesJRobinson__: yeah, definitely01:22
Sam-I-Amthe install guide's holdup is mainly conditionals01:23
loquacitiesbut the install guide is hard because of conditionals01:23
Sam-I-Amhopefully not duplicating a lot of stuff, only to have it diverge over time01:23
loquacitiesok, just gonna run through the speciality teams real quick01:23
loquacitiesHA Guide - Needs an updated spec01:23
loquacitiesTraining Guides - i don't have an update01:24
loquacitiesInstall Guides - RST conversion convo01:24
loquacitiesUser Guides - IA of guides (meetings resume this friday)01:24
loquacitiesSecurity Guide - i don't have an update01:24
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loquacitiesAPI docs - i don't have an update01:24
loquacitiesNetworking Guide - Needs testing & review01:25
loquacitiesand now would be a good time to mention that doc day again01:25
loquacitiesSam-I-Am: ^^ ?01:25
Sam-I-Amyeah, apparently we need contributors... first, we need the existing scenarios converted to RST if they're not done yet01:25
Sam-I-Amsecond, we need people to contribute to the non-scenario parts of the guide01:25
loquacitiescan i sec an outreachy mentee on you?01:25
loquacitiesor is that cruel?01:26
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Sam-I-Ama what?01:26
loquacitiesan applicant in the outreachy mentor program01:26
bmossa manatee.  Large, marine mammal found in Florida.01:26
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loquacities(previously the gnome OPW)01:26
loquacitiesbmoss: can they write?01:26
nickchaseboy, when you come into the middle of a conversation....01:26
adahmsAssign a bug and find out ;)01:26
loquacitiesnickchase: hi!01:26
Sam-I-Amnickchase: pays to be on time01:26
nickchasehi. :)01:26
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bmossloquacities, not sure, but they are technically excellent01:27
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loquacitiesbmoss: i'll consider hiring one01:27
Sam-I-Amnickchase: can you elaborate more on the networking docs day?01:27
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nickchaseEdgar will rally the Neutron group troops to ...01:27
nickchasebasically fill in the gaps in the networking guide on the 23rd (I think)01:28
Sam-I-Ami was sort of missing for that discussion01:28
nickchasehe's in there now...01:28
nickchasecleaning up the index and making sure he understands how things work01:28
nickchaseand I'm finishing the other conversions01:28
nickchaseso it'll be obvious what's still missing01:28
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loquacitiesso is it worth asking the writers in this meeting to contribute during our 23rd?01:28
loquacitiesdo you have a wiki page or something where they can self-select tasks?01:29
Sam-I-Ammight need neutron knowledge01:29
Sam-I-Amhowever, if devs write stuff, there will be plenty of -1s to fix01:29
nickchaseor general networking knowledge01:29
loquacitiessounds like a job for furface_01:29
nickchaseI think that...01:29
nickchaseit's worth showing up.01:29
Sam-I-Ami suspect docs folks will make it look pretty (anne's not here, right?)01:30
nickchaseEdgar is making a etherpad01:30
nickchasebut I don't think he has done it yet01:30
asettleOh my jesus god I looked away for five minutes01:30
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nickchaseHey, Alex01:30
nickchaseThe TOC is here, though:
loquacitiesok, so for the minutes: please consider getting involved in the networking guide doc day on the 23rd, watch the ML for an etherpad and more details01:30
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asettleHey nickchase :)01:30
nickchasecorrect.  we should have something on Friday01:30
adahmsSorry, all - I'm going to have to steal away the RHEL-OSP Red Hatters now I'm afraid01:30
loquacitiesawesome, thanks nickchase01:30
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adahmsWe'll keep track01:31
loquacitiesadahms: thanks man :)01:31
loquacitiescan we move on?01:31
nickchaseloquacities: please check the date01:31
slong_have to go to another mtg...01:31
loquacitiesi've got 23 april, is that wrong?01:31
nickchaseI'm not sure it's the 23rd.  whatever I said it is, it is.01:31
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loquacitiesthat's what  anne had in her update01:31
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nickchasethen that's right01:31
nickchaseslong_: so good to see you!01:31
nickchasehello and goodbye :)01:31
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loquacities#topic Doc tools update01:32
*** openstack changes topic to "Doc tools update (Meeting topic: docteam)"01:32
loquacitiesanne has "releasing next Sphinx theme and clouddocs-maven-plugin for Kilo"01:32
loquacitiesbut i don't actually have any further info on that01:32
loquacitiesso, moving on01:32
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loquacities#topic Vancouver01:32
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loquacitiesDesign summit sessions etherpad here: #link
loquacitiesplease add your suggestions there01:32
loquacitiesany other questions/comments on summit?01:33
Sam-I-Amlooking forward to it01:33
loquacitiesme too!01:33
loquacities#topic APAC Meetup01:33
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loquacitiesPlanning for an APAC OpenStack meet up in May, ping asettle01:33
asettleI love it when the thing I write comes back to me01:34
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asettleBasically, May, I was thinking mid to late may (closer to the swarm) for catch up01:34
asettleThinking we might go closer to the RH office this time round so that furface_ doesn't exhaust himself01:34
asettleThat wholeeeeee 2km each way01:34
bmossremember that late May is summit01:34
asettlebmoss I do indeed01:35
furface_I am delicate01:35
nickchasemore like mid-may, though; 18-2201:35
loquacitiesit would be nice to have a summit debrief01:35
nickchasei guess that's late (doh)01:35
asettleI think post summit is a good idea01:35
asettlenickchase lol you beautiful01:35
loquacitiesi'm back on 25 may01:35
asettleCool well, let's aim for something closer to the 30th... enough time for sleeps01:35
loquacitiesthat would work for me01:35
Sam-I-Amsleep is optional01:36
JRobinson__So the wednesday of the 27th > 30th, good plan01:36
asettleThen we can chill, chat about summit, discuss OS plans, and talk about nickchase when he's not around ;)01:36
bmossHow about first week of June?01:36
bmossfor selfish reasons, since I'm not back until June 101:36
asettlebmoss ahuh, noted in my diary01:36
loquacities#action asettle to investigate first week of june for another APAC openstack docs f2f01:36
JRobinson__June 3 > June 5 then01:36
asettle"Dear Diary, Brian away. Quickly, steal his wife, and home"01:36
loquacitiesoh, and from earlier, because i forgot to write it out:01:36
loquacities#action Lana to report back on i18n RST issues01:36
bmossHA!  She's with me in Canada.01:36
asettleAnd wher am I bmoss?01:37
nickchasethat should make it easier to steal your home... :)01:37
loquacitiesok, that's all i had01:37
asettlenickchase is with me!01:37
loquacities#topic Open discussion01:37
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nickchaseyep. :)01:37
* bmoss invests in a security system01:37
loquacitieshave at it!01:37
bmossDocs swarm...01:38
asettleWhat about it?01:38
asettleOh yeah, actually, I need you for that nickchase01:38
loquacitiesyeah, that should have been in the agenda01:38
asettleWhile i've got his attention01:38
bmossI've booked Opera House for Aug 13-14, 9am to 5pm.01:38
bmossBut since I will not be at RH at that point, Suyog has agreed to take over the booking.01:39
asettlenickchase I'll be sending an email out shortly. We're going to be conducting a swarm to reboot the arch guide. I will be requiring some SME's. Are you able to help us? I will be providing plenty of warning. I just need you to be available to reply to questions in emails one particular evening/day01:39
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loquacitiesbmoss: ok, cool. thanks to suyog :)01:39
bmossSo in other words, as of Monday Suyog is the RH contact for the docs swarm.01:39
loquacitiescool beans, thank you01:39
nickchaseI don't know that I will be the right person but I know someone who will likely be able/willing to help.01:39
nickchasedefine "reboot"?01:40
asettlenickchase I would love that. Who do you have in mind?01:40
nickchaseHis name is Christopher Aedo.01:40
asettlenickchase revamp more like. There's some technical inaccuracies currently, and mostly just consistency within the writing.01:40
nickchaseSend me an email and we'll coordinate01:40
asettleI've spent the last few months changing it from passive to active voice. Which has ben a task.01:40
asettleYou're a gem, thanks nickchase :)01:40
loquacitiesasettle, bmoss: anything else that needs doing on the swarm at this stage?01:41
bmossloquacities, I don't think so.  We've got a location and dates.01:41
asettleCurrently, no. SME emails will be send out later. I have a plan in motion. Nearly done with the passive stuff. I think we're rolling.01:41
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loquacitiesexcellent, thanks :)01:42
asettleOther than I need to know exact numbers at some stage to be able to allocate chapters/sections01:42
loquacitiesok, i think we're done here01:42
asettleBut I think we can discuss that in June01:42
loquacitiesthanks for your patience01:42
asettlePlease put a note for the June meeting?01:42
loquacitiessure :)01:42
loquacitiesoh, actually01:42
loquacitiesone more thing01:42
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Sam-I-Amloquacities: when did you become steve jobs?01:43
loquacitiesone of the RCBAU guys mentioned that our *official* docs meeting schedule is 1-3 and 2-4 wednesdays01:43
loquacitiesSam-I-Am: i've had tendencies all my life01:43
loquacitieswhen we really should be on alternating weeks01:43
loquacitiesdoes anyone have any issue with me changing that?01:43
Sam-I-Amdo the things01:43
loquacitiesi can fix that01:43
loquacities#action Lana to change meeting schedule to alternating weeks01:43
loquacitiesok, now i'm really done01:44
JRobinson__no worries there.01:44
loquacitiesthanks everyone :)01:44
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Sam-I-Amthis way i can actually make it a calendar thing01:44
bmossthanks loquacities01:44
Sam-I-Ambecause calendars dont do "2 and 4" or "1 and 3"01:44
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asettleloquacities just to note, also have support from Beth Cohen :)01:47
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shardy#startmeeting heat12:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Apr 15 12:00:17 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is shardy. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.12:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)"12:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'heat'12:00
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skraynevFuh. Bot works today :)12:00
shardy#topic rollcall12:00
*** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: heat)"12:00
shardywhoe's around?12:00
shardywho's even..12:01
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shardyOk, hi all, let's get started12:02
shardy#topic Adding items to the agenda12:03
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*** openstack changes topic to "Adding items to the agenda (Meeting topic: heat)"12:03
shardyanyone have anything to add?12:03
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shardyOk, I'll take that as a no ;)12:03
shardy#topic  Any critical bugs (rc2 potential)12:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Any critical bugs (rc2 potential) (Meeting topic: heat)"12:04
pas-hajust discovered after ML post -
openstackLaunchpad bug 1444429 in heat "WaitConditionHandle creates stack user without a password" [Undecided,New]12:04
shardySo, I checked with ttx, and it's likely we'll have an rc2, but we're still waiting for the bugs we want to backport to be finalized12:04
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pas-hanot sure how critical is that12:05
shardypas-ha: It's not supposed to have a password, the AWS WaitCondition only has an ec2 keypair12:05
shardyI'll take a look after the meeting12:05
pas-hano, thats native one12:05
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shardypas-ha: Ok, well definitely one to investigate ;)12:05
pas-haCreate_Failed: Resource CREATE failed: BadRequest: Password is not strong12:05
pas-haenough (HTTP 400)12:05
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zanebwow, that's a long list12:06
shardyIf folks can tag bugs with kilo-rc-potential, it will help track what needs to get backported to proposed/kilo12:06
pas-hashardy, what's the difference between kilo-rc-potential and kilo-backport-potential?12:06
zanebpas-ha: kilo-rc is pre-release12:07
zanebkilo-backport is stable release12:07
shardypas-ha: kilo-rc-potential means it's something we might consider a release blocker12:07
zanebi.e. 2014.1.112:07
pas-hawe already have kilo-backport-potentia12:07
shardykilo-backport-potential is something we'd consider for a post-release async stable release12:07
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shardyif we're doing an RC2, we may as well get as many non-risky bugfixes in as we can IMO12:08
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shardyas zaneb says, that is looking like rather a long list though :)12:08
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skraynevmay be some authors don't know, that their patches are backport potential ?12:09
shardyskraynev: it's up to the heat-core folks to set the tag appropriately either when reviewing or when triaging the bug12:10
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shardye.g before you +A something, you should think if its a release-worthy fix, and consider tagging the bug referenced from the commit12:10
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skraynevshardy: yeah, I know, but I told, about patches for review12:11
skraynevwhen it was marked as backport potential and the author of original commit does not know about it and do not do patch to another branch12:11
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shardyskraynev: Yeah, in that case, it's generally up to the PTL and any other kind folks who are prepared to propose the backports12:12
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shardywe can't really mandate that authors backport their patches, although it's obviously good if they do :)12:13
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shardyOk, does anyone have anything else re rc2?12:13
skraynevshardy: :) need gerrit-bot for it12:13
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zanebat the risk of making work for myself, I'd say it's the responsibility of the whole core team at a minimum, not just the PTL ;)12:13
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shardyzaneb: Yeah, I agree, but IME a lot of it falls to the PTL, hopefully that's improved now the role has been rotated quite a bit :)12:14
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skraynevzaneb: sure. we all can be on this place and nobody don't want to be alone with these responsibilities ;)12:15
shardyThere are 4 High Triaged bugs on the rc-potential list, it'd be good if folks could either pick those up or deprioritize them12:15
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zanebI have +A rights on the stable branches, feel free to add me to reviews :)12:15
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shardy#topic open discussion12:16
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)"12:16
shardyCould be a quick meeting today ;)12:16
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shardyanyone have anything they'd like to discuss?12:16
skraynevooops. it was answer on the first message ;)12:17
shardyI wanted to point out that events are a terrible interface for user notifications, FWIW12:17
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shardyI think asalkeld started a thread about it, but I've been trying to consume hooks/breakpoints via events and it's nasty12:17
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shardyJust thought I'd share that with y'all ;)12:18
ryansbshardy: you mean heat events, not "the general term 'events'" right?12:18
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skraynevryansb: I think shardy meant first one;)12:18
shardyryansb: Yeah, heat events12:18
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* zaneb warms up his zaqar rant12:18
ryansbBecause the conclusion to that notify-our-users thread was "we like sending events over zaqar as a solution"12:19
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skraynevzaneb: I'd prefer pluggable mechanism in this case12:19
skraynevzaneb: not only zaqar12:19
shardyryansb: I'll take anything which doesn't require 37 API calls and a ton of list mangling on the client side12:19
zanebskraynev: +1. there's no harm in sending it to multiple places12:19
ryansbzaneb: I think everyone here has heard the zaqar rant ;)12:20
shardyhopefully you'll all take pity on me when I post my heatclient hacks which do that later today and not immediately -2 them ;)12:20
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zanebskraynev: although in my broader vision, the zaqar message can be used to trigger a mistral workflow, so it's pluggable by the user :)12:20
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skraynevzaneb: sounds interesting.12:21
* shardy concludes his event rant12:21
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shardyAnyone have anything else they'd like to discuss?12:22
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anantawould like to discuss 131224612:23
anantabug 131224612:23
ryansbtagging along on the event rant: ceilometer has a spec up for alarming/event notification if folks want to have a peek
ryansb<end my topic>12:23
anantawanted to know if it can be made public?
zanebsaw that in my email just now, but haven't read it yet12:25
shardyI'm puzzled by what an "attacker" would do in the context of a box they already have root via cloud-init on12:25
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zanebwait, I have commented on this before12:26
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anantaI think its about not setting the setuid properly before running12:26
anantarunning the command12:26
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zanebananta: no, it's not12:27
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zanebbut I agree this should be public12:27
anantazaneb: ok12:28
zanebit's up to the template author not to pass untrusted data as an argument there until this bug is fixed12:28
shardyYeah I agree12:28
zanebso they should probably know about it12:28
shardyI'd be happy to see it fixed, but it can't be super high priority given that it's not been fixed in a year ;)12:28
zanebwhereas I don't think knowing about it makes it significantly easier to exploit12:28
anantazaneb: yes12:29
ryansbzaneb: +112:29
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anantashardy: its definitely not high priority12:30
shardyananta: Ok, I've triaged it an assigned medium priority12:31
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anantashardy: thanks12:31
shardyif you're prepared to help fix it, that would be great12:31
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anantashardy: I will investigate and see12:31
anantaI don't know right now12:32
shardyananta: thanks12:32
shardyAnyone have anything else, or shall we wrap things up early?12:32
zanebjust changed it to "public security"12:33
shardyzaneb: thanks12:33
shardyOk, if there's nothing else, I'll endmeeting, thanks everyone!12:33
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"12:33
openstackMeeting ended Wed Apr 15 12:33:53 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)12:33
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* zaneb is still confused about how ananta even found it12:34
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anantazaneb: Jason added me12:34
zanebah :)12:34
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BobBall#startmeeting XenAPI15:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Apr 15 15:00:30 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is BobBall. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'xenapi'15:00
BobBalljohnthetubaguy - ping?15:00
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johnthetubaguyBobBall: hope you had a good holiday15:01
BobBallHowdy.  Good, good.15:01
BobBallI did indeed, thanks!15:01
BobBallForgot that I was on holiday last meeting :)15:01
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BobBallSouth Africa is a wonderful place.  Definitely recommend it.  As long as you lock up tight at night and don't walk around by yourself...15:01
BobBall#topic CI15:02
*** openstack changes topic to "CI (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:02
BobBallLet's start with the fun one - the CI15:02
BobBallAs you probably know the CI was disabled from voting late last week15:02
BobBallThe initial suggestion was that the CI was broken15:02
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BobBallThat was unfortunately not the case...15:02
johnthetubaguyBobBall: south africa, awesome15:02
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johnthetubaguyBobBall: ah, the code is broken?15:02
BobBallA new, major, race condition has been introduced somewhere which is hitting XenAPI very badl15:02
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johnthetubaguyyes, you mentioned snapshot15:03
BobBallWe went from a 10% failure rate to 60+% (not quite sure what the rate was)15:03
johnthetubaguybut its not affecting libvirt?15:03
BobBallPresumably not15:03
johnthetubaguydo you have the logs from the failure to look at?15:03
BobBallwhich isn't surprising15:03
BobBallsince we have very different code paths15:03
BobBallI meant:
BobBallWhich includes that n-cpu log file15:03
johnthetubaguyhave you found the offending log trace?15:04
BobBallAnyway - the interesting thing is that Tempest has recently changed to add a whole bunch of useful identifiers that should help track it down15:04
BobBallbut I still didn't see anything helpfully obvious :(15:04
BobBallIt's slightly worrying, perhaps, that most of the failures seem to happen when test snapshot pattern is the last test15:05
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BobBallbut maybe that's due to the timeout we're hitting15:05
BobBalljust pushing it to the last test executed15:05
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BobBallWhat I don't understand is how/why this is showing as a failure to connect to SSH15:06
johnthetubaguyoh, thats odd, is that post boot from snapshot?15:06
BobBallIt really _is_ some form of race since even though the pass rate is low, some jobs at the same time are still passing15:07
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BobBall is a list of some passes/fails15:07
BobBallso you can see that even over a period of hours (so not just a temporary thing) we're getting a splattering of passes15:08
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BobBall is an example of a pass-in-amongst-the-fails15:09
BobBallAnyway - either of you have thoughts on where the issue might be from those logs?15:09
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johnthetubaguysorry, distracted15:10
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johnthetubaguyagreed its a race15:10
johnthetubaguyjust seeing if we found anything in the log15:10
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BobBallAny thoughts on how it might be a race, since it's actually SSH connection to the guest that is broken15:11
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johnthetubaguywaiting for it to be active?15:12
johnthetubaguywhat the test doing?15:12
BobBallIt's writing a pattern of bits ot the guest then snapshotting I think15:13
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BobBalloh - no - it's not doing that any more15:14
BobBallI thought it used to15:14
johnthetubaguyhmm, odd15:14
BobBallnow it's just writing the timestamp to the guest, snapshotting, booting that snapshot and testing it15:14
BobBallbut it can't write the snapshot to the server initially15:14
BobBallthat's what timesout15:14
BobBallso it's pre-snapshot15:14
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BobBallJust booted a newly created image which then can't be accessed15:15
johnthetubaguyso maybe its not waiting long enough for it to boot?15:15
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BobBallNot unless we take a substantially longer amount of time than libvirt to download + boot a cirros image15:16
johnthetubaguywe do15:16
BobBalllike minutes longer?15:16
johnthetubaguyfrom what I remember15:16
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BobBallI think SSH timeout is 120 seconds?15:16
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johnthetubaguyyeah, that should be OK15:17
johnthetubaguyunless we hit some slow path I guess15:17
BobBallconsole shows that the guest did boot15:17
BobBallhowever 2015-04-10 15:45:20.980 |     wget: can't connect to remote host ( Network is unreachable15:17
johnthetubaguyah good point15:18
johnthetubaguyhow long did it take15:18
BobBallHmmmm... Was this not our fault? :/15:18
BobBallCould this have been a RAX networking issue?15:18
johnthetubaguyI don't think so, its on box networking right?15:18
BobBallInfra tempest used to be just on HP cloud right?15:19
BobBallfair point15:19
BobBall2015-04-10 15:45:20.911 |     cloud-setup: failed to read iid from metadata. tried 3015:19
johnthetubaguynot sure15:19
BobBall2015-04-10 15:45:20.919 |     WARN: /etc/rc3.d/S45-cloud-setup failed15:19
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johnthetubaguyBobBall: we don't run the metadata service, where is that log from?15:19
BobBallSearch for the Cirros boot15:20
johnthetubaguyBobBall: the alternative is to try boot with config drive15:20
BobBallLooks like the guest doesn't get an IP address15:20
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johnthetubaguyBobBall: do force config drive15:20
johnthetubaguysee if that narrows it down15:20
BobBallI think we must be forcing it normally for it to work at all15:20
johnthetubaguyit could be a race in the ip tables writing15:20
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BobBallI wonder if there is an issue where the config drive might not be attached before we boot or something15:21
johnthetubaguyseems very unlikely15:21
BobBall2015-04-10 15:45:20.396 |     ### ifconfig -a15:21
BobBall2015-04-10 15:45:20.402 |     eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr FA:16:3E:FC:EC:8F15:21
BobBall2015-04-10 15:45:20.408 |               inet6 addr: fe80::f816:3eff:fefc:ec8f/64 Scope:Link15:21
johnthetubaguyBobBall: is it using the correct image?15:21
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BobBallI assume this means the guest definitely didn't get an IP address15:21
johnthetubaguyI guess we override the config option15:21
* ijw spies on you15:21
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BobBallWe must15:22
* BobBall hides behind a tree15:23
ijwSeems you didn't get DHCP (which is only attempted when a config drive isn't mounted)15:23
BobBallOK - so config drive wasn't there, but it _must_ be for RAX.15:23
BobBallthat's still right isn't it johnthetubaguy?15:23
BobBallSo the real question is why wasn't there a config drive...15:23
ijwAnd config drive can be enabled with --config-drive=true but equally can be enabled if the global 'always give a config drive' option is set15:23
BobBallforce_config_drive             = always15:24
BobBallfrom n-cpu15:24
johnthetubaguyBobBall: I think you are getting confused, the metadata service used in't the cloud one, its the one in your openstack setup right?15:24
BobBallOh, yes, I am getting confused.15:24
johnthetubaguyBobBall: are you sure its the right image we are launching in this test?15:24
ijwUsually I end up poking around in the /opt/stack/data/nova/instances for the config_drive file when I'm using libvirt, you can use a loopmount to see if it's good15:24
johnthetubaguymaybe the new test used the wrong config15:24
ijwBut assuming your cloud is not completely buggered I suspect John's right and your image hates you15:25
BobBallBad image!15:25
ijwAt this time of the morning it's probably just decided to down tools and get a coffee15:25
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BobBallUsing CONF.compute.image_ref which is what lots of others use too15:26
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BobBallLate afternoon here ijw... Does that mean it's time to down tools and get a cup of tea and cake?15:26
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johnthetubaguyBobBall: hmm, that sounds reasonable enough15:26
BobBalljohnthetubaguy: But we were 'agreed' that it looked like a race...15:27
BobBallbecause some runs definitely pass15:27
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BobBalloh hang on again sorry I'm getting fixated on config drive15:27
BobBallwhich is _not_ the issue, right?15:27
johnthetubaguyBobBall: it passes sometimes and not others, so it has to be right, it could be bad state shared between tests when they get reordered15:27
johnthetubaguybut thats not xenapi specific15:27
johnthetubaguyBobBall: unsure, coming up and not getting a ip could be and issues, but that assumes it actually started15:28
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ijwBobBall: you're down the road from the pub, it's probably work just popping over there to see if that's where it's gone15:28
ijwAnd you might as well have a pint while you're at it15:28
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BobBallMight as well.15:29
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BobBallI'm going in circles here15:30
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BobBallLong story short15:31
BobBallI disabled the test15:31
BobBallso the CI is back commenting on changes15:31
BobBallnot voting though15:31
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BobBallGets us over this initial hurdle15:32
BobBallTests can be re-run by removing it from the tempest_exclusion_list in stackforge/xenapi-os-testing and they get picked up so you can re-run multiple times15:33
BobBallchanges to xenapi-os-testing get picked up by the CI I mean15:33
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BobBallAny more on CI johnthetubaguy?15:36
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ijwjohnthetubaguy failed CI, sorry15:36
johnthetubaguynot really I am afraid15:37
johnthetubaguywe should find why it failed, and whats going on first15:37
johnthetubaguyI can try help, ping me tomorrow morning15:37
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BobBallOK, will do.15:37
BobBallI don't think I've got anything more to add15:38
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BobBall#topic AOB15:38
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BobBallJust one from me - if you know anyone in Nanjing who wants to work on OpenStack, tell them to apply to Citrix.15:38
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BobBallAnd that's all :)15:39
BobBalljohnthetubaguy - anything from you?15:39
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johnthetubaguynothing big from me, except15:39
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johnthetubaguylets look out for rc1 stuff15:40
BobBallWhat do you mean, look out for it?15:40
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BobBallReview it, CI it, find more stuff that we want in RC1? ;)15:41
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johnthetubaguyI mean RC2 really15:41
johnthetubaguylets just keen an eye out for major issues15:41
johnthetubaguylike this one :)15:42
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BobBallI am worried that this might go out in the release if we can't figure it out in time...15:42
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BobBallUnfortunately because it's just showing in our CI it's likely to just be us trying to fix it unless we can find a case that reproduces elsewhere15:42
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BobBallOK - anyway - I think we're done.15:44
BobBallSo I'll call it there.15:44
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BobBallNext meeting in a fortnight, so Thursday 30th April15:44
BobBallno sorry15:44
BobBallWednesday 29th April!15:44
johnthetubaguycool, thanks15:44
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"15:44
openstackMeeting ended Wed Apr 15 15:44:49 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:44
johnthetubaguysorry, I will try be more attentive next time!15:44
openstackMinutes (text):
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geguileoe0ne: hi15:58
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thingee#startmeeting cinder16:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Apr 15 16:00:01 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is thingee. Information about MeetBot at
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'cinder'16:00
thingeehi everyone!16:00
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* bswartz thinks that thingee tries to time to meeting to start at EXACTLY 160016:00
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thingeebswartz: I'm a little ocd yes16:00
jungleboyjbswartz: Sounds like something thingee would do.16:00
thingeeliberty summit proposals!16:01
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thingeeplease submit them to the etherpad listed in the mailing list post.16:01
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thingeealso we have a bit less that require fish bowl.16:01
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thingeeI will be reviewing them to make sure this is correct, but if you need user input, please consider using the fish bowl session type16:02
bswartzthingee: that mail gives a date of April 27 which is a Monday16:02
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thingeeotherwise I will be releasing these back in the summit pool for other projects to use.16:02
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thingeebswartz: yeah we'll do the follow wednesday doh!16:02
bswartzis the real deadline april 29?16:02
thingeeI'll send a correcting email16:03
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thingeealso potential rc bugs16:03
vilobhmm11thingee : sorry just joined; we are talking about dealine for liberty specs you mean16:03
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thingeeif you're looking for something to review, please look there. Also if you have something pressing, please tag it with 'kilo-rc-potential'16:03
bswartzvilobhmm11: deadline for design summit proposals16:03
thingeeI review these so I'll remove something if it's not really blocking.16:03
thingeebut I will talk to you first16:04
thingeevilobhmm11: yes16:04
vilobhmm11bswartz : sure16:04
thingeeerr yeah liberty summit talks16:04
thingeeI will be opening liberty specs
thingeealready audited and moved old specs around16:04
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thingeeok any other announcements before we begin?16:05
e0ne thingee: may be merge first is a good idea16:05
vilobhmm11thats cool16:05
thingeee0ne: sure16:05
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vilobhmm11eone : +116:06
thingeeI'll start pushing stuff later today16:06
jgriffithsigh.... more paper work16:06
thingeethanks everyone!16:06
vilobhmm11nova already has that16:06
thingeejgriffith: I've spoke to you directly about the use case section and you said it was a good idea.16:06
jgriffiththingee: it is16:06
jgriffiththingee: but the whole spec thing in general is out of control16:07
jgriffiththingee: but no need to derail meeting on this16:07
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thingeeand technically it's not *more*, it's break the problem description up16:07
jgriffiththingee: ok boss16:07
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thingeethe problem description mentions use cases, but people seem to miss it and then we end up giving a -1 anyways at the beginning because people don't list. I figured this would help avoid that.16:08
bswartzI dislike specs repos, but if you're going to have and use one, at least do it right16:08
thingee#topic active-active-[active...] cinder volume services16:09
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thingeeDuncanT: hi16:09
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DuncanTSo I've been told my highest current priority is making active/active cinder-volume service work, bug free16:10
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winston-d_DuncanT: by mgmt?16:10
avishayDuncanT: cinder-api too?16:10
DuncanTI know of a bunch of issues with doing this, but I'm sure people know more, and I'd like a complete list of known or suspected issues16:10
DuncanTwinston-d_: Yeah16:10
bswartzDuncanT: have you talked with vishy on that topic?16:10
thingeeI would say active/active and the rpc compat work for rolling upgrades in liberty.16:10
bswartzI think he has experience making it work16:10
DuncanTavishay: API already works?16:10
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jbernardi dont think so16:11
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hemnaThe API from nova -> cinder has to change to make active active work correctly16:11
hemnawe've already seen that with just trying to remove the volume manager locks16:11
hemnanova craps out16:11
avishayDuncanT: need atomic volume state updates (currently it gets the volume from DB, checks things, then updates - not atomic)16:11
e0neDuncanT: it dosn't work in Juno. i've got several raises few months ago16:11
winston-d_FWIW, we have been using active-active-active since day 116:11
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DuncanThemna: That's on the list16:11
avishayhemna: +116:11
winston-d_no major issue related to that16:11
DuncanThemna: If you have any specifics, please pass them on16:11
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avishaywinston-d_: with all backends?16:12
hemnaDuncanT, sure, we can take it off line in cinder channel if you like.16:12
DuncanTwinston-d_: Kick off a tight loop of random creates, deletes, snaps, creates from snaps, it ends up in a mess16:12
geguileoDuncanT: I've looked into the atomic state changes and it's not ready16:12
hemnawinston-d_, it will eventually fail if you don't remove the volume manager locks16:12
DuncanThemna: Sure, no point taking up meeting time, just trying to get anybody who's found issues to contact me16:12
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vilobhmm11geguileo : can you point us to those changes ?16:13
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jbernardDuncanT: email? or etherpad? what's preferred?16:13
winston-d_DuncanT: in our use cases, we don't see much of issue with active-active16:13
geguileovilobhmm11: No, no changes yet, just had a look into ways to solve the issue16:13
DuncanTgeguileo: I might have  a crude first pass at that that might help, need to talk to an oslo.db person to check if it is feasible16:13
e0neDuncanT: i try to reproduce my past issues and will contact you16:13
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smcginnisEtherpad might be good so those interested can at least see what's going on.16:13
DuncanTe0ne: Thanks, that's exactly what I was hoping people would say :-)16:13
winston-d_avishay: most of deployment has only limited backend(s)16:13
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jgriffithwinston-d_: you're not alone16:14
vilobhmm11DuncanT : I would also send you details of issues i have been seeing16:14
geguileoDuncanT: I have a working test code (out of Cinder) with multiple workers accessing same row in a Galera cluster16:14
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DuncanTvilobhmm11: Thanks16:14
jgriffithwinston-d_: I know of at least one other customer doing A/A since H16:14
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DuncanTWe have A/A test machines, if you're gentle (i.e. normal workloads) it is fine16:14
e0nejgriffith: haproxy?16:14
DuncanTIf you push it hard, it breaks16:14
jgriffithDuncanT: name something in OpenSTack that doesn't :)16:15
jungleboyjjgriffith: :-)16:15
e0neDuncanT: any thoughts about test automation for it?16:15
winston-d_e0ne: relies on rabbit actually16:15
winston-d_e0ne: no LB is required16:15
DuncanTe0ne: Rally scenarios initially, can do something smarter once they pass16:15
e0newe still allows cinder-volume to change DB:(16:16
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winston-d_e0ne: why not?16:16
bswartzwinston-d_: haproxy is necessary if you want to actually use more than one cinder-api instance16:16
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winston-d_bswartz: ah, for cinder-api, we have LB. but c-vol, no16:16
e0newinston-d_: w/o distributed locks it will generate raise conditions16:16
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avishaye0ne: as long as the changes are atomic (i.e., check and set), it should work, no?16:17
hemnae0ne, that's what I was saying earlier about the local locks in the volume manager.  it will eventually break.16:17
e0newinston-d_: i mean if we'll deploy more than one cinder-volume16:17
e0nehemna: +116:17
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jbernardavishay: yes, but that isn't what we have at the moment16:17
vilobhmm11avishay: agree …need atomic transaction….DuncanT : may be a good idea to drop email to openstack-dev and get some more corner cases other people might have seen and also some feedback from oslo people…16:17
winston-d_e0ne: i know, we have 3, in every region16:17
bswartzif anyone has looked as the oslo concurrency code, it has support for distributed locking16:17
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hemnayou can run 2 cinder volume services on 2 hosts as long as they aren't managing the same volumes.16:18
thingeeok DuncanT, so are you going to be working with folks like e0ne harlowja_away and dulek ? ... or16:18
bswartznot sure I'd trust it but it's there16:18
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geguileobswartz: Do you mean the external synchronized option?16:18
bswartzgeguileo: I think that's the one16:18
e0nehemna: absolutely16:18
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geguileobswartz: That uses a file for the lock16:18
DuncanTthingee: Once I've got a list of all the problems, I'll be working with anybody and everybody I think can help fix them16:18
geguileobswartz: So you need to have the file shared among all instances16:19
DuncanTthingee: We need a parallel attach on this to make any progress16:19
thingeeDuncanT: there are some patches already up that begin to work on this problem.16:19
vilobhmm11thingee : the patch i propose for micro_states handles these atomic transations that avishay mentioned, jfyi…16:19
hemnaso if that's what you mean by active-active, then yah that will probably work.   but to me active-active means 2 different hosts running the same driver talking to the same backend, managing the same volumes.16:19
jgriffithDuncanT: I'd love to help eliminate the stupid frikin locks everywhere :)16:19
geguileoThere are at least other 2 solutions I have tried that work without the need of using those locks16:19
thingeeDuncanT: ^16:19
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DuncanTthingee: Parts of this problem, yes16:19
hemnajgriffith, +116:19
hemnajgriffith, this all feathers into the nova -> cinder api changes needed.16:19
DuncanTthingee: One thing we don't have is a list of all of the known parts of the problem, I want to start there16:19
thingeeDuncanT: it would be good for you to test those out and sign off. maybe help those that are doing summit session coming up16:20
jgriffithsince nobody is going to work on fixing the problem of us NEVER cleaning them up maybe we can just quit using them16:20
DuncanTthingee: Most of them don't detail what problem they are fixing16:20
hemnajgriffith, well, we tried to do it in kilo.   but failed because of breaking nova in the process.16:20
thingeeDuncanT: so help those to detail what problems they fix. Since you can verify there is a problem, you can pull those patches in and try them out16:21
geguileoDuncanT: How do you suggest we go about creating the list of all parts of the problem?16:21
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thingeeDuncanT: I just want to make sure that we don't duplicate effort and use what people have developed last release if we agree with the approach16:21
jgriffithhemna: I think we're talking about two different things :)16:21
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DuncanTgeguileo: Initially, throw them all at me and I'll try to collate them and raise bugs16:21
e0negeguileo, DuncanT: omo, ehterpad will be good for it16:21
hemnafixing the locks ?16:21
DuncanTthingee: Absolutely. I just want to start with the list16:21
geguileoe0ne: I agree, an Etherpad would be good, with brief explanation of each issue so we can see the whole picture16:22
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DuncanTetherpad is good, irc is good, email is good, I'll certainly be working via an etherpad16:22
thingeedulek, e0ne, vilobhmm11  any of the efforts you're doing, can you please work with DuncanT on which things on his compiled list are handled by which patch(es)?16:22
winston-d_+1 for etherpad16:22
geguileo+1 for etherpad16:22
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vilobhmm11thingee : sure will do...16:23
e0nethingee: sure, i'll do16:23
deepakcs+1 for etherpad16:23
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thingeeDuncanT: can you make a etherpad now so I can link it in the meeting notes?16:23
thingee#action DuncanT will be compiling a list of know active/active issues16:23
vilobhmm11DuncanT : please include me in any conversation regarding this problem; would be happy to help16:23
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DuncanTvilobhmm11: Will do16:24
thingee#action dulek vilobhmm11 e0ne will match which patch(es) already posted will fix known issues from DuncanT's list16:24
DuncanTthingee: Doing it now16:24
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e0nedoes sheduler work in A-A?16:24
smcginnisIf/when we have something working, it would be good to also get some documentation together to make sure new code isn't introduced that breaks HA.16:24
winston-d_e0ne: yes, in our case16:24
avishaye0ne: i believe so16:24
hemnasmcginnis, +1, that's good for reviewers as well16:24
e0nehow does it receive capabilities reports?16:24
DuncanTe0ne: Yes, everything works except c-vol16:25
winston-d_e0ne: vol-stats update is a fanout16:25
DuncanTe0ne: the broadcast for that just works16:25
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e0neDuncanT: glad to know it:)16:25
DuncanTe0ne: The scheduling becomes slightly none-deterministic, but not in a bad way16:25
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e0newinston-d_: it works in our case too, but i was asking about out-of-the-box16:26
thingeeDuncanT: anything else?16:26
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DuncanTThat's it for now, thanks16:26
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vilobhmm11it would be nice to keep state management away from schedule16:26
thingee#topic open discussion16:26
winston-d_e0ne: yes, we use it out-of-the-box16:26
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e0newinston-d_: great!16:26
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e0nei'll check how it works in our case16:27
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e0newhat do you think about
DuncanTvilobhmm11: I don't think that is possible16:27
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e0nedowngrades is painful at least for sqlite16:27
vilobhmm11DuncanT : agree16:27
hemnawinston-d_, but do you use c-vol services on different hosts to manage the same volumes/arrays?16:27
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DuncanTe0ne: Testing object code is hard without downgrades16:28
e0neDuncanT: good point16:28
rushiagris c-vol not A-A-able coz it maintains some state?16:28
winston-d_hemna: yes, of course16:28
hemnawinston-d_, ok you are playing with fire then :)  It will fail.16:28
DuncanTrushiagr: Correct16:28
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winston-d_hemna: almost 2 years, things are fine16:29
vilobhmm11rushiagr : right16:29
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winston-d_hemna: maybe it is just our users behave16:29
smcginnisJust so it is also captured here - tentative schedule for Liberty release is:16:29
smcginnisL1: June 25, L2: July 30, L3: Spet 3, Release Oct 1516:29
thingeeok seems like we have no topics for open discussion. we can continue this chat in #openstack-cinder16:29
vilobhmm11if we are done with no-sql downgrade discussion16:29
vilobhmm11i have one16:29
vilobhmm11what is our plan for heirarchical projects16:30
vilobhmm11thingee, DuncanT, other cores : ^^16:30
rushiagrvilobhmm11: is hierarchical multitenancy part supported by keystone already? I thought it's still some way to complete..16:30
li_zhanghemna: we did also, 3 volume hosts each has 8 volume services managing one array16:30
vilobhmm11yes its part of keystone in kilo16:30
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vilobhmm11as every other project is moving toward heriarchical support i guess we should also think in that direction16:31
thingeevilobhmm11: well for one thing, we need to remove the deprecated code in DBQuoteDriver16:31
DuncanTthingee ++16:31
hemnawinston-d_, it's just a matter of time, or timing, literally.16:31
e0nethingee: +116:32
vilobhmm11do you think this a s apriority for liberty ?16:32
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winston-d_thingee: anyone working on that that you are aware of?16:32
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thingeewinston-d_: nope16:32
vilobhmm11winston-d_ : i have a spec out there for review if anyone wants to have a look in there free time16:33
openstackLaunchpad bug 1435807 in Cinder "Volume type quotas trigger deprecation notification" [High,Triaged] - Assigned to Anton Arefiev (aarefiev)16:33
thingeewinston-d_: I take that back16:34
winston-d_vilobhmm11: thx16:34
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thingeevilobhmm11: ok seems like you're already on top of it :)16:35
thingeewe will review after L specs opens16:35
DuncanTvilobhmm11: For a first pass, I suggest skipping the updating of quotas by anybody except admin, just do nested quota support16:35
vilobhmm11thingee : :) sure…please do16:35
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thingeeanything else?16:35
DuncanTvilobhmm11: Then add the editing by none-admin later16:35
vilobhmm11DuncanT : sure…appreciate your feedback16:35
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thingeeok thanks everyone!16:36
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"16:36
openstackMeeting ended Wed Apr 15 16:36:35 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)16:36
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notmynameswift team meeting time19:00
notmyname#startmeeting swift19:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Apr 15 19:00:56 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)"19:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'swift'19:01
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notmynamewho's here for the swift team meeting?19:01
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notmynamegood group here19:02
notmynameclayg: hurricanerix: courtesy ping19:02
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notmynamepeluse is out at a meeting. torgomatic has another commitment19:02
notmynameok, let's get started19:02
notmynameagenda is at19:02
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notmyname#topic EC status19:03
*** openstack changes topic to "EC status (Meeting topic: swift)"19:03
notmynamehad to get the ling19:03
notmynamethere it is! on master!19:03
notmynamethank you everyone19:03
tsg_awesome!!  :)19:04
notmynameI've said this many times before, and I'll keep saying it: this is a huge feature that has been a whole-community effort. thank you19:04
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notmynameas a follow up to that, the feature/ec and feature/ec_review branches are gone19:05
notmynamefeature/ec has been tagged for historic purposes19:05
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notmynamebut you can no longer submit reviews to them19:05
notmynameand the rest of the pending changes have landed on master19:05
notmynamewe have a 2.3.0rc1 tag19:05
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notmynameunless major issues are discovered, then this will be our 2.3.0 release and included in openstack kilo on april 3019:06
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notmynamemaster is unfrozen19:06
notmynameany questions on ec, the RC, or the release?19:06
wbhuberjust one minor q19:06
kota_notmyname: one thing.19:06
notmynamewbhuber: first19:06
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kota_notmyname: ok, waiting19:07
wbhuberin the doc link, development_saio.rst, that has yet to include python_pyeclib as a dependency19:07
claygisn't that what requirements.txt is for?19:07
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wbhuberyes, but requirements.txt comes after installing swift19:08
claygI thought the docs only listed out like system packages which need to be installed19:08
claygwbhuber: i'm not sure I follow - can you do a patch or open a doc bug?19:08
notmynamehmm..looks like it doesn't actually have a step to install swift's requirements.txt19:08
notmynameit does for swiftclient19:08
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wbhuberi could open a doc bug19:09
tsg_wbhuber: at the moment, we didn't have rpm format pkgs generally available for pyeclib and liberasurecode yet19:09
tsg_only Debian packages19:09
notmynamewbhuber: looks like an oversight. a bug (in swift) or evena  patch to the .rst file would be great!19:09
wbhuberi see19:09
claygnotmyname: well the will do it - it's all pbr'd and setup.cfg - probably won't work unless you pip install -e .19:09
tsg_so we decided to stick with pypi19:09
wbhuberthere's a patch but not implemented, i think -
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claygso I have given up on develop - it just never works with any version of setuptools you're likely to have installed on any release that's reasonable to develop on19:10
notmynameclayg: womm19:10
claygcschwede and I recently fixed vagrant-swift-all-in-one by using pip install -e .19:10
claygnotmyname: you almost cirtainly would have pip installed pyeclib by hand then19:10
notmynameclayg: yup. totally did19:10
cschwedeclayg: yeah, and i can confirm that a fresh vagrant-saio has pyeclib installed19:10
claygor pip install -r requirements.txt - same different19:10
wbhuberok nifty19:11
notmynamewbhuber: ok, so there's a gap in the SAIO docs. can you open a bug or submit a patch?19:11
claygcschwede: and it doesn't installed it *explicitly* - it just lets' setuptools/pbr/pip do it - but you cant spell it develop - you have to say pip install -e .19:11
claygpbr hasn't trained you all to do this yet!?19:11
wbhuberi'll submit a patch19:11
notmynamewbhuber: thanks!19:11
notmynamekota_: you have a question?19:11
kota_notmyname: ok19:12
kota_notmyname: I know current reconstructor doing decode/encode because of the jerasure bug and we need to bump it later than Kiko. If you have a schedule for that, could I have it?19:12
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* notmyname looks to tsg_19:12
tsg_kota_: thanks I was about to bring up update to 1.0.719:12
tsg_notmyname: that might be one requirements update that we'll need to take in19:12
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claygalso 1.0.7 will allow xor 3-3 yeah!?19:13
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notmynametsg_: pre kilo?19:13
tsg_clayg: correct!19:13
hurricanerixnotmyname: sorry, i am here =)19:13
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notmynamehurricanerix: hi!19:13
tsg_notmyname: 1.0.7 has a number of bugs ironed out, so I recommend pre-K, yes19:13
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claygnotmyname: not before kilo - once liberty opens19:13
notmynametsg_: clayg: you just said 2 different things :-)19:13
claygtsg_: how are we going to pull that off!?19:14
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notmynameI can investigate bumping a dependency pre-kilo, but I don't know much about it right now19:14
claygnotmyname: tsg_: kilo will *work* with 1.0.7 right?  but it *requires* at least 1.0.6 - that's a done deal at this point?19:14
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tsg_clayg: the pypi 1.0.7 release for pyeclib should be available by this afternoon - for requirements, I was hoping we could be explicit19:14
tsg_clayg: correct .. at least 1.0.619:15
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notmynamephrased a different way, will kilo break with 1.0.6?19:15
notmynameor, what will break?19:15
claygnotmyname: 1.0.7 isn't even out yet!  we've *all* been using 1.0.619:15
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notmynameseems that way19:15
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tsg_clayg: liberasurecode 1.0.7 was waiting on a couple of fixes .. that's released19:16
claygit's as good as we need, and 1.0.7 will be even better!19:16
tsg_Kevin and I working on 1.0.7 for this afternoon19:16
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notmynametsg_: is there something in 1.0.6 that needs to hold the release?19:16
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tsg_notmyname: some reconstructor related fixes in the jerasure backend19:16
tsg_those are important19:16
notmynameie so we can patch/backport/rc2 to get 1.0.719:16
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notmynametsg_: jerasure bugs or liberasurecode bugs?19:17
claygtsg_: you mean getting rid of the encode/decode hack?  that's a liberty dev cycle fix.19:17
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tsg_notmyname: bugs in the "jerasure" backend in liberasurecode, yes19:17
kota_notmyname: if we could get 1.0.7 during rc timeline, it would be better to me.19:17
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claygkota_: tsg_: why do you guys care?  if you don't like what's in kilo repackage?19:18
notmynamekota_: what's preventing using 1.0.7 today?19:18
claygnotmyname: a) it's not released b) no one will have time to package it for the kilo release19:18
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notmynameclayg: it's important the the dependency is working at release. I'm not convinced at this point, but I want to get the info19:19
kota_notmyname: I found decode/encode thing is affecting our backend.19:19
claygnotmyname: (except us - we'll probably re-package swift & pyeclib a few weeks into liberty - but we always do that)19:19
cschwedeis there any real risk in using 1.0.6?19:19
notmynameright, that's what I've been trying to ask19:19
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tsg_there is no risk19:20
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notmynamekota_: will you be able to use the newer version of the dependency?19:20
tsg_the reconstructors bug has been already fixed in that rev19:20
claygnotmyname: cschwede: sounds like kota_ has some issue with the hack on his plugin?19:20
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kota_notmyname, tsg_: because we use unique info at encoding to each fragment so when re-encoding the fragment it's not original fragment on our backend.19:20
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claygnotmyname: ok kota_ has a real issue - the hack is acctually casuing a problem19:20
notmynamekota_: will you be able to deploy liberasurecode 1.0.7 with swift 2.3.0 (with >=1.0.6 in the transitive dependency list)19:21
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claygkota_: I would suggest if we can't bump the depencency (we probably can't) - we *could* roll a rc2 that includes a config option to do use encode/decode *or* rebuilt19:21
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claygnotmyname: kota_'s problem isn't 1.0.6 - it's the hack - the question is could he repackage and deploy swift kilo+ instead of swift kilo or do we need an rc219:22
kota_clayg: sounds reasonable, thanks19:22
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notmynameso far, I'd like to leave it as-is, if kota_ can use the newer version with the swift code19:22
claygnotmyname: +1000000019:22
notmynameoh, wait, is there code in *swift* that is breaking things? or just the dependency19:22
claygnotmyname: kilo is beta - it wasn't tested with all backends - there's been an issue discovered with a non-tested backend - requires a bug fix that we want to do anyway19:22
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notmynameclayg: you don't have to over-sell me ;-)19:23
claygnotmyname: the code would have to change - the 1.0.7 only helps kota_ because it allows us to remove the hack that's breaking him19:23
notmynameswift code or liberasurecode?19:23
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claygswift code19:23
acolessounds like kota needs a change in swift code19:23
kota_calyg, acoles: exactly, thanks19:24
claygwell he *wants* a change - that we want to - the question is if he *needs* it in kilo and we have to spin an rc219:24
notmynameright. I understand now19:24
notmynameso, kota_, do you absolutely require an rc2? ie if this isn't in kilo, are you stuck without EC for 6 months until the openstack liberty release?19:24
claygkota_: what is the problem with kilo (ec beta) having the hack - do you not expect to release/test with swift during liberty anyway?  what if we find a new issue 4 weeks from now?19:25
notmynameor can you deploy eg kilo(swift2.3.0)+ a few commits19:25
notmynameclayg: exactly my question19:25
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kota_notmyname, clayg: ah...thinking...19:25
claygkota_: :)19:25
claygkota_: no rush, it's cool ;)19:26
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* notmyname would be happy to work with kota_ to set up some 3rd party testing running the NTT EC library19:26
claygnotmyname: what is the possiblity of an rc2 anyway?  I'd love to know if I work hard and find a bug I can fix it - but only if I do it before XYZ19:26
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notmynameclayg: looks like most of the other openstack projects are doing an RC2 next monday I think19:26
claygnotmyname: oh - that's an awesome idea!19:27
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claygnotmyname: I mean the 3rd part testing - not doing an rc2 monday19:27
claygnotmyname: but it's good to know we have a little bit of time19:27
claygnotmyname: I'd be just as happy getting it "right enough" on the first go19:27
notmynamekota_: what do you think?19:27
claygnotmyname: i'm also looking into acoles etag issue - trying to understand why the scenario he described which *should* break - is acctually not causing a problem for me in practice19:28
acolesclayg: if we make rebuild configurable but not bump to 1.0.7 then we'd have to make sure you can't select rebuild when using 1.0.6 right?19:28
claygacoles: "have to"19:28
acolesclayg: wel that could just be because i am wrong19:28
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notmynameyes, me too. it's beta, and I'd really prefer not to do an RC for a non-open driver that the community doesn't have visibility in to19:28
claygacoles: it's *beta* - you might loose some data19:28
notmynameclayg: also, as much as we put "beta" on it, someone will be using it for prod data somewhere19:29
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notmynameso fix stuff if we can19:29
acolesclayg: notmyname i agree with you both!19:29
claygnotmyname: you're going to give me an ulcer19:29
notmynamekota_: ok, can we come back to this? I want to move on in the meeting19:29
kota_well, I undestood it's beta and we could do testing as 3rd party so maybe not urgent for the rc, but I'd like to fix it as possible19:30
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kota_notmyname: thanks to consider that :)19:30
notmynamekota_: yes, I agree with that!!!19:30
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notmynamekota_: I'd totally love a patch to swift master this afternoon as soon as tsg_ has the new version available19:30
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claygkota_: ok - so your best bet is to find a bug in swift that *requires* a rc2 - then we can slip in the reconstruct config option ;)19:31
notmynamebut that wouldn't be in kilo19:31
notmynameclayg: yes19:31
kota_clayg thanks!19:31
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claygyeah that's the other thing - swift development will continue no matter what goes in kilo19:31
notmynameok, so as things stand now, there is no plan for an RC2. if somethign is found, we'll have one19:31
notmynametsg_: and when you get upstream done, please submit a requirements update. no terrible rush on that, but sooner is better than waiting eg until july19:32
tsg_notmyname: just got a final nod on a patch for 1.0.7 from Kevin - we will have pyeclib uploaded by 2pm PDT19:32
tsg_notmyname: will do19:32
notmynamemornign on19:32
notmyname#topic summit planning19:32
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claygnotmyname: i'd like to make sure we do a good job testing swift with the new version of pyeclib19:32
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notmynameclayg: of course!19:32
notmynamethat etherpad is our scratch pad for summit planning19:33
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notmynamewe will have 6 fishbowl sessions and 10 working sessions19:33
notmynameand all day friday for "open"19:33
notmynamefishbowl == larger session like previous summits19:34
notmynameworking == smaller session more similar to a room at a hackathon. focused discussion about code19:34
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notmynamefriday will be like friday in paris. open ad-hoc discussions19:34
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notmynameany questions on logistics before we talk about some of the proposals?19:35
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mattoliverauno lets talk proposals :)19:36
notmynameok, let's go though some of the proposals. I want to get a general sense of popularity of them19:36
notmynameencryption. acoles and jrichli19:36
notmynamecurrent state of on-disk encryption in swift19:36
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notmynamewe talked about this at the hackathon, and I'm happy to see work kick off again for it19:37
mattoliverauIf you put the word encrytion in, every man and his dog will probably turn up like last summit19:37
notmynameyeah, that leads to my question about it:19:37
notmynameacoles: jrichli: do we need to have a second fishbowl one for it?19:37
jrichlii would be up for it19:37
acolesyou mean in addition to a working19:37
claygnotmyname: *two* fishbolw?19:38
notmynameworking session schedule titles will be intentionally obfuscated to prevent so many looky-lous from attending and not helping19:38
acolesthat makes a fishtank no? :)19:38
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notmynameyeah, that's what I meant. as second session that is a fishbowl in addition to the existng proposed working session19:38
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claygnotmyname: is that like *our* plan?  or are other people doing this?19:38
notmynameclayg: doing what?19:38
claygintentionally obfuscated19:39
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notmynamethat's a global thing for the summit19:39
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acoleslets call it 'various minor improvements'19:39
claygacoles: no you title it "said every andriod app evar"19:39
notmynameeg they don't want 300 people in a "docker" session19:39
acolesseriously, we must have a session where we can talk details and work out issues19:40
jrichliacoles: "metadata of metadata" might scare people off :-)19:40
notmynameclayg: not for you!19:40
acolesie smaller session19:40
notmynamewell, except storelets. we'll get to that in a minute19:40
acolesjrichli: you're learning ;)19:40
cschwedewe should setup a honeypot session with docker in the title…19:40
claygoh goodness - this is going to be a great summit - i can't wait to see all of ya'll!19:40
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claygnotmyname: encrytpion needs a working seession too19:41
notmynameok, I added one19:41
notmynameyeah, it's there19:41
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notmynamecschwede: test framework session19:41
claygnotmyname: how much will the working sessions overlap - can I come to all of them (or the ones that don't lock the door "quick before clayg")19:41
notmynameis this a newbie thing or something with new ideas onw hat to do?19:41
notmynameclayg: no overlap19:42
jrichliI meant it as a newbie thing19:42
notmynamejrichli: ah ok. cschwede put hsi name on it19:42
claygtitle looks like newbie thing - but cschwede's a nice guy - he'll probably let us coopt it a bit at the end19:42
cschwedenotmyname: intro for newbies, howto add tests for your patches and tests to improve?19:42
notmynamejrichli: cool. we might want to add some other "intro to swift" things to it too19:42
jrichliyes, sorry i wasn't actually there when you called out my name earlier today19:42
notmynamejrichli: cschwede: what do you think of that?19:43
acolesso it could be (a) heres what we have for newbies and (b) what do we need to improve?19:43
jrichlisure, as long as we can get deep and dirty into functests!19:43
notmynameheh ok19:43
cschwedejrichli: i just volunteered, remove me if you like to lead the session!19:43
claygnotmyname: given "all newbie swift" and "how tests work today - how we'd like you to make them better" - i'd be interested in option 219:43
jrichlicschwede: that must be a joke19:43
notmynameclayg: kk19:43
jrichlicschwede: I suggested it because I need the info :-)19:44
notmynameops feedback session19:44
notmynamemattoliverau: put it down19:44
notmynamemattoliverau: I'll work on getting that one also added to the ops track session19:44
cschwedejrichli: k :)19:44
mattoliverauI did, cause I think its useful19:44
notmynamea new feature of the schedule this summit will be that one session can be listed in 2 tracks19:44
notmynameeg swift+ops19:44
mattoliverauI put me down to run it, which I'm happy to do, but also cause I didn't want to volenteer anyone else :)19:44
notmynameok :-)19:44
claygi love mattoliverau doing it19:45
notmynameLarge Containers19:45
claygi love mattoliverau doing that one too19:45
acolesdo it19:45
notmynameI love this one, because I'd really love to see progress here in liberty!!!19:45
claygall mattoliverau all the time really19:45
gverniki like large containers...19:45
notmynamefishbowl or working, though?19:45
claygumm... hrd to say - probably fishbowl19:45
notmynamebigger group discussing desing and presenting ideas or smaller one talking about the code you've got and with a whiteboard?19:45
* notmyname doesn't know if a whiteboard is available19:46
claygi want to talk about some with guys high bandwidth and pick some things we think are a) doable b) useful c) moving us to the ultimate goal19:46
notmynamemattoliverau: so far it's just your code, so what do you think?19:46
mattoliveraueither really19:46
notmynamemattoliverau: then what's your preference?19:46
notmynamegotta make a choice!19:46
claygjrichli: i'm really sorry - i used to always say "ya'll" but then in califiornia it's all "you guys" - which seems exclusionariy :\19:46
cschwedei’d prefer smaller and in-depth talks for it19:46
mattoliverauhow about working.. unless there is a fishbowl free and I see how much more of the POC i can get done now that EC it out :)19:46
mattoliverauok working for now19:47
notmynamechanging policies19:47
jrichliclayg: no worries.  I grew up in Delaware and said "you guys"19:47
notmynamedaisuke isn't here. kota_ do you know of it?19:47
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acolesnotmyname: are there any obvious candidates to fill the 6 fishbowls - then everyhting else is working?19:48
kota_notmyname: oh... either seems fine to him, I think.19:48
notmynameacoles: next, one I think :-)19:48
notmynamekota_: thanks19:48
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notmynameI think this is a fishbowl session19:48
cschwedelarge please!19:48
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notmynameincrease part_power19:49
notmynameit has a variable name in the title. probably a smaller session ;-)19:49
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claygnotmyname: yeah cschwede already has like the hard ring part written - so really it's just figuring out how to merge that and what the next patch would be19:49
notmynameacoles: I love that you submitted this one. also, good luck, sounds hard ;-)19:49
clayg(we might be able to do the first part before vancouver)19:49
notmynamewell, ok then19:49
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notmynameec follow on work for next steps directly related to ec19:50
notmynameI like this one and want it as a workign session19:50
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notmynameI added a few at the bottom right before the meeting19:51
notmynameec overview19:51
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notmynamea fishbowl session19:51
notmynameas a summary and ops guide and etc. different than the next steps19:51
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notmynamepython-swiftclient working session19:52
notmynameto get some next steps there19:52
claygnotmyname: be great if we could sneak in some early performance charictizations19:52
claygsigh poor swiftclient19:52
notmynameclayg: yeah. start running those tests!!19:52
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notmynameya, that's why I want to have a working session on swiftclient. so that we do have a plan for the next few months with it19:52
notmynameany objections?19:53
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* notmyname looks at clock and realizes this meeting has gone by quickly19:53
mattoliveraunope sounds good19:53
notmynameacoles: how do you feel about a fast-post session?19:53
notmynameworking session19:53
acoleshappy to lead if you like19:54
notmynameglobal cluster improvements19:54
notmynameacoles: done :-)19:54
notmynameglobal cluster improvements is kinda nebulous, but there are a few things to look at19:54
notmynamemabe ;-)19:54
notmynamekota_: yeah, I knew YOU'D like it19:54
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notmynamelast one there is tape storage19:55
notmynamethere have been a few things talked about, but not yet in the dev community. I'd like to try to get someone to talk on it19:55
notmynamespecifically, IBM and BDE19:56
notmynameanyway, just and idea19:56
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notmynameso, for all of those, this isn't a final list at all, and it's totally unordered19:56
claygnotmyname: isnt' there some specs up that folks wanted to talk about too?19:56
claygnotmyname: should they like... be here?19:56
notmynameplease keep adding stuff, and if your name is there to lead, make and etherpad and make an outline19:56
notmynameclayg: yeah, good point19:56
notmynameprobably could be one submission for every spec, really19:57
notmynameacoles: CRAZYTOWN19:57
notmynameadd it!19:57
kota_ya, simlinks should be there!19:57
notmynamekeep adding stuff this week19:57
acolesi'd like a session on that19:57
claygcschwede: they may be different things - the PUT == full replace nature of object's makes symlinks at the object layer simpler19:57
notmynameI don't have a final date yet, but I'd expect that we'd have a really good idea of sessions by the end of next week19:58
cschwedeclayg: yes, different in implementation, but user-api should be similar and aligned i think19:58
claygcschwede: VERY good point19:58
notmynamelater, we'll rank them and schedule them19:58
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notmynameanything else to bring up in the last 2 minutes?19:58
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notmynamekeep adding your ideas for the summit to the etherpad19:59
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notmynameI'll add an entry for the specs that are there19:59
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notmynameagain thank you, everyone, on your hard work getting EC and 2.3.0 done!20:00
mattoliverauI think we'll need a virtual tdasilva so he can join in.. unless the baby to be will keep him too busy ;) RE:summit20:00
notmynamesee you next week (and on IRC)20:00
notmynamemattoliverau: :-)20:00
notmynamemattoliverau: ipads with video chat20:00
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openstackMeeting ended Wed Apr 15 20:00:50 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)20:00
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sarob#startmeeting product-team23:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Apr 15 23:00:06 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is sarob. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.23:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: product-team)"23:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'product_team'23:00
sarobroll call23:00
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barrettCarol's here23:00
geoffarnoldgeoff too23:00
* sarob o/23:00
mscohenmikec as well23:00
sarobhelo helo23:00
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dttocsScott's here23:01
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sarobim dragging myself back into the fold23:01
sarob#topic socialization status23:02
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sarobwhatca got mscohen?23:02
mscohenactually we are waiting to get the last few updates from PTLs23:02
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barrettIs Trove the only one left?23:02
mscoheni believe scott, carol were chasing them down23:02
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dttocsIronic is done and in the etherpad23:03
mscohenit looks like trove only now23:03
barrettI talked with Eoghan for Ceilometer and am working on getting Nikhil23:03
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mscohengreat - so pretty close on wrapping that up23:03
* nikhil_k checks if he's the right Nikhil23:03
* sarob is the right sarob?23:04
barretthere's the email I've used: ''23:04
barrettis that right?23:04
nikhil_knope, sorry guys23:04
nikhil_khe's the other one ;)23:04
barrettCan you give me his email?23:05
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nikhil_k has it23:06
dttocsAlso nikhil@manchanda.me23:06
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barrettThe review item shows the slicknik email address too23:07
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Arkady_Kanevsky_arakdy here23:08
sarobmscohen so whats after23:08
barrettI'll work on getting the Trove update this week and send a note out the ML when I have it23:08
mscohenok, other than trove23:08
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mscohenwe need to work on the presentation23:08
mscohenneed to figure out what team wants to be involved and i think a voice call would be good23:08
sarobwhat team?23:09
barrettFor the Summit or the Cross-project meeting ahead of the Summit?23:09
saroblike project?23:09
mscohenwhat set of people actually want to help build slides23:09
saroboh, right23:09
geoffarnold+1 on voice call23:09
mscohenwould folks be open to doing it tomorrow at this time?23:10
rosmaitamaybe at 15 past the hour?23:10
Arkady_Kanevsky_-1 for tomorrow this time.23:10
barrett+1 for tomorrow23:10
sarob#info trove is the remaining project to gather info on23:11
Arkady_Kanevsky_Austin OpenSTack meetup tomorrow23:11
Arkady_Kanevsky_What about all pre-incubation projects?23:11
mscohenits prob worth noting they exist — but maybe not covering all of them?23:11
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sarobwe dont use that word anymore :)23:12
barrettI think the incubation projects are a 2nd priority23:12
geoffarnoldStack rank, see which we can get to?23:12
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barrettOne we get things going, then we can reachout to them23:12
Arkady_Kanevsky_As long we have a story as sarob points out we do not use that term anymore23:12
sarobid stick with the projects in hand23:12
Arkady_Kanevsky_we cannot use core either - but only hwat defcore defines23:12
mscoheni will send out to ML a webex link for tomorrow if thats ok23:12
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barrettsarob +123:13
sarobwe can point out other non-openstack repo projects are interesting23:13
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geoffarnoldIs there a cheat sheet with politically correct terminology?23:13
sarobbut we limited our limited scope to just openstack repo projects23:13
* rosmaita also needs terminology cheat sheet23:13
Arkady_Kanevsky_basic idea applies to them - upgrade, log formats, and a couple of others.23:13
dttocsI think we should stick with the information on the projects we identified, whatever they may be called now.23:13
sarobi was kinda joking about the incubation term23:14
sarobjust call them openstack projects23:14
sarobthat was always the bump to being incubated23:14
RockygWell, there are lots more in the openstack repo, now.  but they weren't there for Paris, so how about the world as it was in Paris projects?23:14
sarobgetting your code repo moved into the openstack repo org in github23:15
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sarobrockyg: that works for me23:15
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saroblike congress just got added23:15
barrettrockyg: works for me23:15
sarobscope creep23:15
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ShamailAre you discussing the new "official" projects inclusion?23:16
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sarobwe can add a bit on we are going to refresh23:16
sarobonce we hit pace23:16
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sarobshamail: yup23:16
Arkady_Kanevsky_I think what we are syaing these are the projects we are coordinating for now. Others will be added in the future23:16
Shamail+1 Arkady_Kanevsky_23:16
Arkady_Kanevsky_but information  we are driving across projects are applicable to all23:16
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geoffarnoldright - new projects are likely to be enthusiastic consumers...23:17
barrett+1 Arkady23:17
Arkady_Kanevsky_+1 <geoffarnold>23:17
sarobArkady_Kanevsky_: you mind changing your nick to Arkady?23:18
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Arkady_Kanevsky_will repsond to it23:18
sarob"/nick arkady"23:18
sarobfull name is sooo hard to type23:18
saroband formal23:18
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ShamailGet a better IRC client sarob 😆23:19
geoffarnoldI feel so "white bread" using "geoffarnold", but I have done for years, so...23:19
sarobwell i never23:19
sarobill all good23:19
sarobits all good23:19
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saroby'all post your meeting date and time to the ML23:19
ShamailI'm just playing.23:20
sarobso others can join in23:20
Arkady_Kanevsky_There are more and more work that starts in one project and then goes to all others.23:20
* sarob no longer speaks to shamail23:20
mscoheni will send out an email about it23:20
mscohensounds like most can do this time tomorrow to get a start23:20
Arkady_Kanevsky_I am looking at nested project hierarchy now.23:20
sarobarkady: nested?23:20
ShamailSounds good mscohen, although this time for EST is brutal. :(23:20
Arkady_Kanevsky_yes. nested23:21
Rockygmscohen, could we make it earlier for central and east coast?23:21
geoffarnoldInspired by Hierarchical Multitenancy?23:21
mscohenok, earlier is ok with me23:21
Arkady_Kanevsky_project, subproject, and so on. with user hierarchy to match23:21
geoffarnoldOr H23Y as I call it....23:21
mscohenwhat about 11am PT?23:21
ShamailI'll make it. Whatever works for majority23:21
dttocseither is fine for me tomorrow23:21
sarobarkady: we are de-nesting23:21
geoffarnold-1 for morning23:22
rosmaita-1 for morning too23:22
barrettTomorrow I can meet between 3:00 - 5:00 pacific or 9:00-11:00 AM pacific23:22
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sarobarkady: as the programs are going away23:22
RockygArkady_kanevesky_ is the guy who can't make late.23:22
rosmaitahow about later?23:22
sarobso just openstack projects with tags23:22
ShamailLet's stick with this time, especially since you already have notice23:22
geoffarnoldI can do 1-2, 3-5 PT23:22
Shamailsarob: +1 tags would be good start23:22
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mscohenok, i will set it for 3pm PT.  seems to work for most and earlier on east coast23:23
sarobim totally slammed tomorrow, so count me out23:23
sarobill catch up on the ML23:23
barrettsarob/shamail: why not stick with the world as it was inParis?23:23
* sarob as we were in paris23:23
ShamailAs a starting point for Vancouver?  Sounds good.  We do need a scalable plan by Tokyo23:23
Rockygbarrett ++23:24
ShamailYep ^23:24
Arkady_Kanevsky_I think barbican and filesystem as a Service passed incunbation criteraio for Kilo23:24
ShamailVancouver = integrated-release tags only (which were the integrated projects before this release)23:24
ShamailTokyo = plan to include all projects with tags23:24
sarobwe need to present findings and make some assumptions23:24
RockygBarbican, congress, Rally, Mistral, Murano...23:24
barrettIs there really a need to include any add'l projects beyond what we've done so far?23:24
RockygOpenstack Client23:24
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barrettSeems like a good starting point for the basic process, discussion with PTLs, etc.23:25
sarobthere will always be outliers23:25
ShamailThey did Arkady... But for this one why don't we keep it to what used to be integrated (not incubated)23:25
barrettFor Vancouver, we'll make a call to others in the community and can add more user groups (ex. Telco) as well as other projects.23:25
ShamailIntegrated-release tag for now, official tag going forward23:25
Arkady_Kanevsky_I would include Tempest since it is foundation of CI and devstack23:25
sarobbarrett +123:25
Shamail+1 to both barrett and Arkady_Kanevsky_23:26
barrettI don't want us to get stuck in data gathering mode, we have alot of things to do with the data we have23:26
sarobmember that we are not trying to be complete23:26
barrettIs tempest part of Infra project?23:26
sarobrather make progress with the concept of the multi-release23:26
Rockygbarrett: no.  Its part of the QA Program23:26
ShamailSo what did we decide here for Vancouver scope?23:26
barrettsarob +123:26
ShamailI would like to limit but be impactful initially23:27
geoffarnoldProjects are just one of the dimensions; another is which aspects of each project we attempt to coordinate23:27
sarobi vote we proceed with what we have plus trove23:27
barrettsarob +123:27
Shamail+1 sarob23:27
mscohensarob: +123:27
sarobokey dokey23:27
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sarobwe beat this topic into submission?23:28
Arkady_Kanevsky_tempest will be pulled automatically in to any coordination since it is openstrack CI.23:28
mscohensarob - i think so23:28
sarobwe will cover slide tomorrow23:29
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Arkady_Kanevsky_we do not need to include it per se but as part of required eco system for release23:29
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sarobso skipping the second agenda item23:29
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barrettdo you want to touch on possible meeting day/time at the summit for this group?23:30
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barrettAnd session with others in the community?23:30
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ShamailEMC/VMware also have a room that we can use for another half-day face to face session if we want.  I wanted to mention this again since the notes were lost from the last meeting.23:31
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Arkady_Kanevsky_yes to f2f. ANy place will do23:31
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geoffarnoldAre you thinking of Friday morning? (Given that Friday is working sessions.)23:31
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ShamailIf we want to leverage the room I offered that it has to be Monday through Thursday23:32
barrettSeems like having the cross community session early in the week would be good, and then our working meeting later in the week could work23:32
barrettI'm in a book sprint on Friday23:32
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Arkady_Kanevsky_friday is last design day where each project agree what to work on for next release.23:32
RockygMonday might be good since there are no design or ops meetings scheduled23:32
Arkady_Kanevsky_We should attend these.23:33
Arkady_Kanevsky_Monday works better23:33
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ShamailWe have our breakout session on Monday23:33
ShamailSo it would have to be after that23:33
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barrettWe could work over lunch on Monday (12:45 - 2:00)23:34
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ShamailIt would be good to regroup with the feedback fresh on our mind.23:34
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barrettOr use that time to reach out to the community and then work after that23:34
ShamailI would have to miss most of it.  I present right after our breakout too.23:34
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Arkady_Kanevsky_Thursday dinner?23:34
ShamailCan we do after 2P?23:34
barrettHow about using a doodle to find a time?23:35
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ShamailThat's a good idea23:35
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ShamailThis is for a breakout session, beyond the time provided to us by the foundation.23:35
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ShamailWelcome back sarob23:36
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ShamailHopefully you still have chair?23:36
sarob_that was wierd23:36
geoffarnoldHard to schedule Wed/Thur until the Design Summit shed is nailed down, to23:36
Arkady_Kanevsky_ready to move to our charter>23:36
barrettShamail: We need to set the time for our meetings with the foundation - whether it's our group meeting or the other23:36
sarob_shamail: it will timeout after 10 min23:36
barrettdid we decide to use a doodle?23:37
ShamailSarob, do you have any updates on timings for meeting during the summit?23:37
Arkady_Kanevsky_yes to doodel23:37
Shamail+1 barrett23:37
Rockyggeoffarnold: I think shed might be the right word;-)23:37
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barrettOK - I'll send it out on the ML23:37
geoffarnoldsigh. yes23:37
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sarob_i grabbed two hours right after WTE23:38
Shamailbarrett: my offer is in case we want more time for face to face discussions.  Agreed that both need to be scheduled.  So maybe doodle for official meeting and then we can also ask interest in an extended face to face?23:38
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sarob_18 monday, 2-3:30pm23:38
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barrettshamail +123:38
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sarob_looks like freenode is having issues23:39
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Arkady_Kanevsky_what is next on agenda? charter? PTL?23:40
sarobdo we want to set aside time for xproject as well?23:40
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barrettsarob +123:40
ShamailYes +123:40
geoffarnoldsarob +123:40
sarobarkady: right my topic change didnt take23:40
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Arkady_Kanevsky_do we need time to TCs for it?23:40
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ShamailI will send out my room offer on the ML23:40
barrettI think we should have xproject before a working meeting23:40
Shamailbarrett: +123:41
Arkady_Kanevsky_+1 carol23:41
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sarobcheck it out23:41
sarobi dont want to be greedy, but it makes sense to me23:41
ShamailThat schedule looks great23:41
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barrettHow about reversing the product and xproject times?23:42
sarobsounds good23:42
sarobgo for it23:42
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barrettor even 1 wg meeting before the xproject and 1 after?23:43
barrettthinking prep and wrapup23:43
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ShamailThat will make it hard to dive deep in anything.23:43
sarobi was thinking a block of time23:43
sarob90 minutes is pretty short23:43
barrettshamail - true23:43
sarobfor 15-20+ people23:44
barrettsarob - true23:44
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geoffarnoldopinionated people23:44
geoffarnoldi'd prefer longer blocks23:44
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Rockygmouthy, opinionated people ;-)23:44
sarob#topic workflow with xproject, ptls slash our charter23:45
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Arkady_Kanevsky_1/2 days is about right with goo division between sessions.23:45
sarobdid i capture the topic correctly?23:45
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Arkady_Kanevsky_anything more and will we start loosing people to other activities23:45
ShamailI think so23:46
barrettsarob: I think it's ok - the focus is what we want to discuss at the cross-project meeting with the PTLs ahead of Vancouver23:46
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sarobbarrett: and workflow is what they will want to hear23:47
RockygYouve lost me....23:47
sarobhow are we going to work with them and not add extra work23:47
ShamailWorkflow + Scope23:47
sarobmaybe take some away23:47
ShamailThey would want to make sure we are not duplicating their efforts and what value we provide23:47
barrettshamail +123:47
sarobwhat we know should be tight23:48
sarobwhat we dont know should be spelled out23:48
Arkady_Kanevsky_we applify their voices23:48
RockygOne way is to make sure that what is being sold as priority work for each project is actually wanted be a good sized customer base23:48
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sarobrockyg: lost me23:49
sarobsmall words plz23:49
geoffarnold_That Google Docs URL caused Safari to crash23:49
sarobgeoffarnold_ my evil plan is complete23:49
Rockygsorry.  so, projects prioritize blueprints.  but what if nobody wants what the blueprints are selling?23:49
barrettsarob: LOL23:49
RockygHelp them weed out outliers on what they want to work on23:50
sarobrockyg: right im with you23:50
geoffarnold_happens all the time... "abandoned" everywhere23:50
Arkady_Kanevsky_completes of the story across projects and positioning for markets23:50
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sarobso we need the workflow to make it23:51
geoffarnold_still here23:51
sarobfor project people to23:51
barrettrockyg +1; what data would we use to demonstrate customer demand?23:51
sarobproduct i mean23:51
RockygByebye geofarnold..Oops.  Hi again.23:51
RockygCustomer surveys>23:51
sarobto provide input and feedback to ptl23:51
ShamailChicken and Egg... I think pre-summit we need to state what our charter, what are workflow for accomplishing it looks like, what are gaps currently, and why/how we would like their help23:51
sarobthat they can trust isnt biased23:51
sarobon one commercial interest23:51
ShamailAt summit and beyond: we can work on use cases population and then blueprints eventually23:52
saroband has some facts behind it23:52
Arkady_Kanevsky_Can we start google doc and all comment on it. - too hard to do on IRC23:52
barrettI like the use case approach23:52
RockygYeah.  Use cases is real important and more product focused community members are creating them23:52
sarobbarrett: so WTE and other wg use a structured use case23:53
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sarobas patches to xproject23:53
Shamailwe also need to ensure that we are not just giving them more work and adding developers is a part of the process23:53
Arkady_Kanevsky_that is not going to sell to PTL. it is marketing telling engineering what to do. we will alienate them23:53
sarobthen projects pick up the use cases23:53
sarobwork with others to prioritize23:53
RockygIf we can categorize what they are working on to what the use cases are, Devs can focus on getting the *right* functionality soonest23:54
ShamailUse cases -> project blueprints -> resources to help if you are interested in use case23:54
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barrettshamail +123:54
Rockygand blueprints --> use cases --> scenario tests23:55
barrettThe resources is key - and remember there are ~10 companies that provide the majority of the development resources. we'll need to harness this to make it work.23:55
ShamailWhen do we feel we would be ready for this meeting?23:55
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ShamailRockyg: +123:55
geoffarnold_And further back, verticals (NFV, WTE, ...) generate requirements w/use cases23:55
barrettAlso need a project tracker for each use case - break out requirements by OpenStack project and track progress23:55
Arkady_Kanevsky_+1 for verticals and requirements.23:56
Shamailbarrett: everything we say and do has to end witj ... AND DEVS TO HELP 😄23:56
Rockygbarrett: you just said a naughty word -- project tracker -- lots of devs think those are EVIL23:56
barrettShamail - I think we need a phone call amongst this team to get our act together.23:56
sarobokay so lets debate some on the ML how to come up with verticals through a workflow23:57
Arkady_Kanevsky_+1 barrett23:57
dttocs_This also goes back to the comments from Nova PTL23:57
geoffarnold_Use cases explain/support features (epics, whatever - high level biz objectives)23:57
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barrettrockyg: when I've shown the one I created for rolling upgrades I've gotten positive response23:57
ShamailAgreed, we have differing approaches even amongst us.23:57
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sarobpart of the fun23:57
barrettCan we put a stake in the ground for when we need to have the PTL discussion?23:57
Rockygbarrett -- project tracker -- needs to be very visual for them to use.  Graphs and icons and stuff, not spreadsheets23:57
sarobuse cases = epics, blueprints = stories23:57
geoffarnold_PERT charts FTW23:57
Rockygsarob:  ++23:58
Shamailsarob: is ML best or should we schedule hangout or call?23:58
sarobthat was always my thinking23:58
sarobML some of the concepts and then schedule a hangout over the ML23:58
sarobis good approach23:58
ShamailSounds good23:59
Arkady_Kanevsky_done for today?23:59
sarob#action team debate high level workflow over ML over next few days23:59
sarob#action sarob will propose a hangout after debate, before next IRC meet23:59
ShamailWe are at time limit but wanted to  share Rockyg PTL noninations etherpd23:59

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