Tuesday, 2015-04-21

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anteaya#startmeeting third-party08:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr 21 08:00:46 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.08:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.08:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)"08:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'third_party'08:00
anteayaraise your hand if you are here for the third party meeting08:01
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anteayahello lennyb08:02
anteayahow are you?08:02
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lennybThanks, I am OK. Still waiting to start non-voting Nova CI, but I guess you all are too busy lately08:04
anteayait is a busy time yes08:04
anteayacan you grab the link to your email and post it in channel?08:05
anteayado you remember how to do that?08:05
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anteayathank you08:08
anteayaokay we like to link to posts from lists.openstack.org08:08
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anteayaif you go to that page you see a number of lists08:08
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anteayayou posted to openstack-dev08:08
lennybThanks, anteaya,08:08
anteayaso select that link08:08
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anteayayou see on the page a link to the archives08:08
anteayayou posted in march08:09
anteayaif you search the march archives you should find this link08:09
anteaya#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-March/058779.html08:09
anteayausually when we link to a conversation we link to the initial post08:09
anteayathen people trying to follow along can start there and read the whole thread08:09
anteayadoes that make sense?08:09
lennybyes, thanks08:10
anteayaand you're welcome08:10
anteayaso the thread has stalled08:10
anteayayou have two core approvals but there was a call for more input08:10
anteayathe way I am interpreting this situation is the nova folks feel you are asking to vote on nova not begin commenting08:10
anteayathey think you are asking for something that you are not asking for08:11
anteayanova doesn't have nearly as much driver activity as neutron or cinder08:11
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anteayaso they have less experience with random people asking things of them with regards to third party ci08:11
anteayaso here is what I would suggest08:11
anteayago into the nova channel08:12
anteayabring the link I posted with you08:12
anteayafind jogo, who commented on the thread, he is on pacific time08:12
lennybOK, thanks,08:13
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anteayatell him that you think people think you want to vote verified and all you want to do is have permission to comment08:13
anteayaask him if he can post to the thread giving you permission to comment08:13
anteayaand ask if he has any suggestions so you can comment08:13
lennybthanks a lot08:14
anteayaif you don't get a response, ask johnthetubaguy if you can add an item to the next nova meeting's agenda08:14
anteayathen show up at the meeting, let me know if you need any help reading the wikipage to ensure you have the right meeting time08:14
anteayaand show up08:14
anteayait is a really good idea if you are in the nova channel and available for people08:15
anteayaso they know who you are if they have questions08:15
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anteayaand attend the nova meetings08:15
anteayadoes that make sense?08:15
lennyb#join openstack-nova08:15
anteayayou need a / at the front of that08:15
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anteayathere you go, great08:18
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anteayalennyb: anything more on this issue?08:20
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lennybnot for now, thanks08:21
anteayaokay great08:22
anteayaanything else you want to discuss?08:22
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lennybno. thank you for all your help and assistance08:23
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anteayathank you lennyb08:27
anteayaI appreciate your diligence08:27
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anteayaand I'm going to wrap it up here08:48
anteayathanks lennyb08:48
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"08:48
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr 21 08:48:32 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)08:48
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-04-21-08.00.html08:48
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-04-21-08.00.txt08:48
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-04-21-08.00.log.html08:48
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mesteryNeutron meeting time!13:59
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Sukhdevmestery: Good Morning13:59
mesterySukhdev: Good morning to you too13:59
emagana_buenos Dias113:59
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mesteryWe've got a packed agenda today, full of excitement (serously)! Lets get started!14:00
mestery#startmeeting networking14:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr 21 14:00:53 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is mestery. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)"14:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'networking'14:00
mestery#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings Agenda14:01
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mestery#topic Announcements14:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking)"14:01
mestery#info The RC2 is open now and all backports are proposed and in process of merging14:01
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mestery#info Expect RC2 for Neutron to land tomorrow or Thursday at the latest14:01
mesteryThanks to all who worked tirelessly to make this happen!14:01
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mesteryI have one request14:01
mestery#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/174228/14:01
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mesteryIt would be great to land that patch in master today and get it cherry-picked back to stable/kilo today as well14:02
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mesteryHenryG salv-orlando amotoki: Can you guys review that one ASAP?14:02
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amotokimestery: sure14:02
mesteryIt's a security fix so landing it prior to release woudl be good14:02
* salv-orlando accepts bribes for reviews14:02
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mesteryarmax_: Also, your eyes here would be good https://review.openstack.org/#/c/174228/14:02
salv-orlandoI thought we already approved it last weekend...14:03
mesterySee discussion above14:03
armax_mestery: looking14:03
mesterysalv-orlando: I guess it didn't make it in14:03
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mesteryAnyways, lets not bike shed on this one right now, but if we coudl, lets try to get it in shape and merged today and proposed to stable/kilo (whew!)14:03
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salv-orlandoI'm not sure if we want to ask the author to address pc_m 's comments. anyway14:03
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mesterysalv-orlando: Me either, I looked and would be fine either way14:04
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armax_yeah I think so14:04
mesterypc_m: Would you be ok removing yoru -1 so we can merge https://review.openstack.org/#/c/174228/14:04
armax_that’s user input we’re talking about14:04
mesteryarmax_: Makes sense14:04
pc_mmestery: Checking, but should be able to.14:04
mesteryOK, lets keep moving14:04
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mesteryWe're still in announcements14:05
mesteryA reminder on the mid-cycle(s)14:05
mestery#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-April/060713.html14:05
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mesteryAnd one more announcement14:05
mestery#info sc68cal has volunteered to be our Nova liaison14:05
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mesteryHe'll be attending nova meetings and working as the go-to for nova/neutron things14:05
Sukhdevmestery: Is agenda for mid-cycle defined yet?14:05
mesteryThanks for volunteering sc68cal!14:05
mesterySukhdev: It's on the etherpad and forming now14:05
emagana_go for it sc68cal14:06
Sukhdevmestery: I want to suggest an item for agenda - will ping you off line14:06
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mesteryAny other announcements from anyone? If not, we'll move to bugs in 60 seconds.14:06
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mesterySukhdev: Sounds good!14:06
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salv-orlandothanks sc68cal it takes some masochism to volunteer for nova liaisoning ;)14:06
emagana_mestery: reminder on the Doc Day14:06
mesteryemagana_: Good call! Do you ahve a link we can #link?14:07
emagana_mestery: Networking Guide needs your love folks!14:07
emagana_hold on!14:07
* mestery waits14:07
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sc68calsalv-orlando: :)14:07
sc68calOh one more thing, I'm going to be using this etherpad to collect things - https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-neutron14:07
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mestery#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-neutron14:08
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amotokidoc sprint http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-April/061850.html and subsequent mails in the thread.14:08
mestery#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-April/061850.html14:08
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mesteryThanks amotoki14:08
emaganaThe etherpad is: #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/networking-guide14:09
mestery#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/networking-guide14:09
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mesteryThanks emagana!14:09
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mesteryOK, we'll move on to bugs next.14:09
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mestery#topic Bugs14:09
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mesteryenikanorov enikanorov__: Hi!14:09
mesteryarmax: Is that really you this time?14:09
mesteryOK, in lieu of enikanorov__ enikanorov being here14:10
mesteryI wanted to thank pc_m for taking the time to go through all 38 VPN bugs last week14:10
armaxmestery: I know you skipped the last summit14:10
mesteryHe triaged them, tagged them, and cleaned them up14:10
mesteryThanks pc_m!14:10
pc_msure np14:10
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mesteryarmax: Any gate issues we should be aware of today? OR bugs trackign those gate issues?14:11
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armaxI am keeping an eye on it14:11
mesteryarmax: I'll take that as "we're in good shape!"14:12
pc_marmax: Did you see Jenkins for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/171874/?14:12
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armaxthere are a few nuisances that cause the functional job to barf, but I don’t have enough data points yet14:12
mesteryarmax: Yes, I noticed that as well.14:12
armaxpc_m: of course I did, I +2 it14:12
pc_marmax: Keeps failing Jenkins...14:12
armaxpc_m: or you mean the functional job?14:12
pc_marmax: yes14:12
armaxno, that I haven’t14:13
armaxpc_m: wow, that’s bad14:13
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armaxsomething must’ve screwed up14:13
armaxI’ll look into it14:13
carl_baldwinI’m working on bug 144626114:13
openstackbug 1446261 in neutron "gate-neutron-dsvm-functional race fails HA/DVR tests with network namespace not found" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1446261 - Assigned to Carl Baldwin (carl-baldwin)14:13
pc_marmax: It had a timeout error and I did a recheck, with a bunch other errors now.14:14
salv-orlandoso is the gate actually in a terrible shape14:14
yamamotoarmax: pc_m: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/175713/14:14
armaxsalv-orlando: I have seen worse14:14
ihrachyshkahow did it sneak in14:14
mesteryyamamoto: thanks14:15
amotokiAll of the failure is due to AttributeError: 'ARPSpoofTestCase' object has no attribute '_create_namespace' and the review from yamamoto seems to fix it.14:15
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ihrachyshkathere should be a hole in our gate14:15
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amotokioh. it is already in the gate!14:15
mesteryamotoki: I was quick14:16
mesteryyamamoto: Thanks for that!14:16
yamamotomestery: you're welcome!14:16
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* mestery waits 30 seconds for any more bugs to pop up in the meeting before moving on14:16
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armaxguys it’s 7am here…slow down I can’t keep up!14:16
* mestery gets armax some coffee14:17
mesteryarmax: I'm on my third cup already, try to keep up! :)14:17
armaxso what is in the gate?14:17
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* dougwig upgrades armax to red bull14:17
* armax scratches his eyes and yawns still14:17
mesteryarmax: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/175713/14:17
anteayaarmax: I hear ya14:17
Sukhdevme too armax :-)14:18
armaxmestery: gotcha, I was also looking at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/175609/ and I got confused14:18
mesteryAs amotoki said, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/175713/ appears to fix the ARPSoofTestCase failures seen recently14:18
* mestery watches snow fall outside his window14:18
armaxoh I see what’s going on14:19
SridharGCan you pls review the following patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/175342/14:19
armaxuntil we plug the hole with https://review.openstack.org/#/c/171874/ I think we’re exposed14:19
pc_marmax: Yeah, I have a VPN commit that depends on that (the fix added in)14:20
mesteryarmax: Yes, but that one will fail until https://review.openstack.org/#/c/175713/ merges, right?14:20
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HenryGWe also need https://review.openstack.org/175462 but amuller need to update it14:20
* mestery hopes armax is writing all this down14:20
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mesteryOK, shall we move on?14:21
salv-orlandoI have not followed the history of these issues. But can you shed some light on what led us to a situation where we need 3 indepdent patches to get to gate stability?14:21
salv-orlando(if you want, otherwise do not mind)14:21
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marunIs that really unprecedented?14:22
salv-orlandowell, let's conclude that it has been an unlucky coincidence of events and move on14:22
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HenryGsalv-orlando: it's all in the functional tests job14:23
mesteryYes, lets keep rolling14:23
HenryGthe bugs are in the tests14:23
mesteryLots more to cover14:23
salv-orlandoHenryG: do you mean that if I look at the functional test job I'll have my answers? Anyway, it does not matter - I was just curious14:23
mestery#topic Docs14:24
*** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: networking)"14:24
* mestery waves at emagana 14:24
armaxsalv-orlando: there was a problem with discoverability of tests whereby failures made the tests be silently dropped14:24
mesteryemagana: Looks like the sprint is coming up quickly!14:24
emaganamestery: nothing more!14:24
mesteryemagana: :)14:24
mesteryI'll juist link it here14:24
emaganamestery: already mentioned the sprint...14:24
mestery#info Networking Guide Doc Day: April 23rd 201514:24
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armaxsalv-orlando: therefore rather than having a failed run, we were only running only the tests that worked14:24
armaxsalv-orlando: pretty nasty stuff14:24
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mestery#topic Liberty Design Summit14:25
*** openstack changes topic to "Liberty Design Summit (Meeting topic: networking)"14:25
mestery#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-neutron-summit-topics14:25
salv-orlandoarmax: so multiple failures sneaked it unknowingly14:25
armaxsalv-orlando: that led us to the situation were errors were sneaking in undetected14:25
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mesteryThere are ... lots of ideas on that etherpad.14:25
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armaxsalv-orlando: once marun  restored order in the kingdom the errors started to pop up14:25
mesteryHowever, I thought it would be obvious that people should put their names next to ideas14:25
mesteryBut it wasn't14:25
mesterySo, please put your names next to your ideas14:25
mesteryOtherwise, it will be hard for me to set the schedule up if I have no idea who proposed an idea14:25
* mestery waits for etherpad.openstack.org to go down as people rush to fill in their names14:26
mesteryOnce RC2 is out this week, I'll work in earnest to get the schedule setup14:26
salv-orlandoarmax: thanks, but we moved on now. Just let's make sure that fixes are backported if they need to.14:26
mestery#link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VsFdRYGbX5eCde81XDV7TrPBfEC7cgtOFikruYmqbPY/edit#gid=56996312814:26
armaxsalv-orlando: they will14:26
anteayaif folks are seeing etherpad issues now, let us know14:26
mesteryThat's the master blaster spreadsheet for the summit14:26
mesteryWe have a split schedule14:26
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mesteryFishbowls in the morning, working groups in the afternoon14:26
mesteryAnd I'm working with nova folks (including anteaya) on a nova/neutron session around nova-network14:27
mesteryAny questions on the Summit?14:27
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marunNova neutron interaction?14:27
salv-orlandoI think he mean joint session14:27
marunIs there interest from nova this cycle?14:27
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mesterymarun: Yes14:28
salv-orlandoI know beagles started some work, but I lost track of it back in february14:28
mesterymarun: I'm working with jonthetubaguy on this right now in fact14:28
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mesterymarun: I expect you in attendance at that session now you realize ;)14:28
salv-orlandomestery: if johnthetubaguy does not comply...14:29
dougwigthat's the session where the first half is nova telling us what they want, and the second half is us telling them they really don't, and why they want something else instead. it's super fun, and not at all dysfunctional.14:29
salv-orlandoI know where he lives ;)))14:29
anteayalet's have a postive outlook please14:29
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mesterydougwig: I expect you and kevinbenton to just keep saying "provider networks" over and over.14:29
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mesteryAnd I agree with anteaya14:29
anteayamany people wnat to find a solution to this for many reasons14:29
mesteryanteaya: ++14:29
anteayalet's be open to finding a solution14:29
dougwigindeed, my positivity sounds negative before noon.  sorry. :)14:29
anteayaokay thanks14:30
salv-orlandomestery, anteaya, dougwig: so we definetely need a fishbowl session ;)14:30
mesterysalv-orlando: It's already penciled in ;)14:30
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mesteryOK folks, if there are no more summit things, lets keep rolling14:30
salv-orlandomestery: thanks a lot for sorting this out.14:30
anteayaI'd prefer 12 folks in a locked room but I don't get what I want14:30
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mestery#topic Neutron as the default in devstack14:30
*** openstack changes topic to "Neutron as the default in devstack (Meeting topic: networking)"14:30
dougwiganteaya: +114:30
mesterysc68cal: HEre?14:30
mesterysc68cal: This is your section14:31
sc68calmestery: thanks14:31
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sc68calSo, we *do* have linux bridge almost passing at the gate. There is just some things we need to sort out for the ironic job14:31
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johnthetubaguysalv-orlando: yeah, he does know where I live. would love to catch up before the summit so the summit is more productive14:31
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mestery#info linux bridge agent passing at the gate, a few issues with the ironic job to sort out14:32
johnthetubaguys/he does/you do/14:32
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mesteryjohnthetubaguy: I've been in meetings all morning, replying to yoru email in a bit to sort that out14:32
salv-orlandojohnthetubaguy: anyplace but the pub in cambourne works for me14:32
sc68calI've tried to say a couple times on the ML thread that yes, there is controversy about switching to LB as default, but we get nova-network deprecated / not the default anymore14:32
sc68calthat puts us ahead in my book14:33
johnthetubaguysalv-orlando: lol, I am good with greens sometime, ping me14:33
salv-orlandoanyway sc68cal what's going to be the test matrix for ovs/linux bridge in the gate14:33
mesterysalv-orlando: That's really the crux of it I think14:33
sc68calsalv-orlando: we'd add jobs to test both ovs and lb14:33
dougwigsc68cal: i'm not sure I heard disagreement so much as the usual sdn versus flat arguments.14:33
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sc68cali've spoken with sdague and he thinks that having jobs for ovs and jobs for lb is a good step14:33
dougwigsc68cal: the answer to which is 'both', imo, so it's not an issue.14:33
mesterysc68cal: ++14:33
mesterydougwig: Exactly14:34
mesteryAnd I agree that getting to default to neutron with LB is a good first step14:34
mesteryThanks for driving this sc68cal!14:34
sc68calcan field further questions, otherwise I yield my time14:34
mesteryIn the interest of keeping moving, lets take questions to you in #openstack-neutron post meeting14:34
mesteryThanks sc68cal!14:35
sc68calgood idea14:35
mestery#topic Moving stackforge/networking-* repos into openstack/ and under the Neutron team.14:35
*** openstack changes topic to "Moving stackforge/networking-* repos into openstack/ and under the Neutron team. (Meeting topic: networking)"14:35
mesteryrussellb: Hi!14:35
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russellbso ... i'm working on OVN and the stackforge/networking-ovn thing to hook Neutron up to it.14:35
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russellbIt seems to me that it makes perfect sense for networking-ovn to be considered an OpenStack project14:35
russellball OpenStack projects are owned by an official team14:35
russellbso, my request is to see what you all think of adopting this under Neutron14:36
russellband then, if yes to that, what else that implies for the rest of the networking-foo projects14:36
mesteryThe obvious initial answer is: "All open source networking-foo things under stackforge"14:36
salv-orlandorussellb: while I agree that ovn is open source, and it is more suitable to be openstack than some commercial integration thing14:36
russellbas in, networking-foo where foo is an open source thing?14:36
salv-orlandorussellb: yeah14:36
mesteryrussellb: Yeah14:37
marunI think it needs to mature before we want to take ownership.14:37
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mesteryFor instance, networking-odl14:37
salv-orlandorussellb: for instance, why should ovn be openstack and not, for instance, midonet?14:37
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russellbwhy not midonet?14:37
marunWe've been pushing stuff off our plate so we can focus on stabilizing common elements.14:37
mesterysalv-orlando: Yes, networking-midonet14:37
russellbi'd argue that they should all be under neutron, personally14:37
russellball of them that want to be14:37
marunrussellb: someday14:37
mesteryRight, we won't just unilaterally acquire them all :)14:37
marunBut not yet14:37
armaxmy take would be to defer this type of decision once we can definitely claim that the decomp effort is complete14:38
russellbi'm also not arguing that you should have to pay attention to them14:38
russellblet them be run like they are14:38
armaxI don’t think we’re at that point yet14:38
mesteryThey have their own core review teams already14:38
egonMaybe gate move them only at some level of maturity/usability?14:38
russellbbut recognize that they're efforts under Neutron14:38
marunThen why do they need to be under our umbrella?14:38
salv-orlandorussellb, mestery: my only argument are that are either all openstack or none. Notwithstanding that being openstack or stackforge is pretty much just a badge for me14:38
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russellbsalv-orlando: +1 fwiw14:38
marunIf the intent isn't to gain attention away from other more important stuffz14:38
russellbno attention needed14:38
mesteryI'm in favor of this proposal to be honest14:38
armaxto me a namespace change makes very little difference, so either openstack or stackforge I am not really swayed one way or another14:39
mesteryThese projects already have their own core teams14:39
marunsalv-orlando: +114:39
russellbjust think it makes sense to consider it openstack, get ATC status, etc14:39
mesteryWe just want them in our (bigger) tent14:39
mesteryBig Tent!14:39
mesteryIt's a networking big tent!14:39
dougwigcan i suggest a spec in gerrit where the discussion can continue?14:39
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armaxbut I’d rather have less churn for the time being14:39
mesteryOr a patch to project-config?14:39
salv-orlandoit used to be a tent. Now it's a stadium14:39
russellbwhat would a spec say14:39
mesteryI'd say a patch in gerrit14:39
mesteryrussellb: What agbout that?14:39
russellbit's a 1 line governance repo patch14:39
mesteryWe coudl discuss there?14:40
russellbi can do that ..14:40
dougwigrussellb: under devref, a new process for networking- stackforge projects to be considered under the neutron project in openstack/14:40
mesteryI sense we won't get to conclusion in this meeting on this issue, thus the patch for discussion?14:40
salv-orlandomestery: yes the discussion should be move there. It's one of those things where people outside of neutron would probably like to chime in14:40
mesterydougwig: So, in neutron not neutron-specs? Interesting.14:40
armaxit’s not about the complexity of the change per se14:40
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armaxI just don’t like the idea of changing something like a namespace whilst things in flight14:41
mesteryI think it's simply a matter of moving open source thigns from stackforge to neutron14:41
mesteryNo change to core teams14:41
mesterythey already have their own14:41
mesteryThey just fall into our stadium14:41
mesteryWhat issues do people have with that?14:41
russellbi think they should have all been openstack/* in the first place, personally :)14:41
dougwigas defined today, it does add load to these specs team.14:41
russellbanyway, will propose some stuff in gerrit.14:41
dougwig /these/the/14:42
ihrachyshkarussellb, arista? midonet? bigswitch? cisco? all of them?14:42
ijwYou called?14:42
russellball of them that want to be, yes14:42
dougwigsalv-orlando: of course hdn.14:42
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mestery#action russellb to propose patch to governance to move stackforge networking-foo projects under neutron14:42
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salv-orlandodougwig: I have also a blueprint for "mmaas" - middle man as a service.14:42
russellband meet base openstack project criteria, passes the "one of us" test14:42
russellbmestery: i'd prefer to only propose ovn, because others should make a positive action to indicate they want to14:43
mesteryrussellb: Makes sense14:43
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russellbbut i can also write some neutron docs around it14:43
mesteryIn the spirit of the giant stadium14:43
mesteryI think we'll open the floodgates14:43
mesteryMaybe that's ok14:44
salv-orlandoalso because I frankly do not think "benefits" like ATC status should be given to contributors whose only goal is integrating a specific technology with neutron14:44
mesteryI don't know14:44
salv-orlandoyou have to bring some benefits to the project - either to its user, to it developers, or operators.14:44
emaganasalv-orlando: +114:44
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salv-orlandobut if you do integration only with your technology, and that's commercial, you're likely to be benefiting only your employer and/or your customers14:44
marunI think the onus is on these projects to justify being in the namespace.14:44
mesterymarun: ++14:45
salv-orlandofor instance, would you every take stackforge/vmware-nsx to be an openstack project?14:45
marunThe default, frankly, should be 'no'.14:45
amotokione point I would like to say from another view is what is a difference between dirvers for opensource one and vendor one. For cinder, driver maintainers will get ATC status and for neutron NOT. It is inconsistent.14:45
mesteryamotoki: Not true, we still have shims in-tree14:45
marunWhy does consistency matter, exactly?14:45
mesteryamotoki: Also, we're a year ahead of cinder14:45
mesteryThey are lagging us by a year14:45
amotokimestery: right.14:45
salv-orlandoamotoki: that is a fair point, but I'm not entirely sure that cinder is doing the right thing. Still we should be consistent.14:46
mesterythey will get to decomp once they realize what a mess it is to have everything in-tree14:46
mesterysalv-orlando: ++14:46
amotokii just want to raise a question we will have.14:46
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mesterysalv-orlando: -- to consistent14:46
mesteryWhy do we need to be consistent?14:46
marunI'd rather we do right by our project than be consistent for its own sake.14:46
mesteryWe can't force cinder to adopt our policies much as they can't force us to adopt theirs.14:46
mesterymarun: ++14:46
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salv-orlandomestery: by "we" I meant us and cinder... cinder should be consistent with us, I think ;)14:46
anteayaamotoki: I am working to try to bring projects with third party interactions to more consistency but there is work to do14:46
mesterysalv-orlando: Fair enough14:46
emaganamestery: because neutron by itself is nothing.. we all together are openstack!14:46
marunsalv-orlando: if it makes sense for them, sure.14:46
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mesteryemagana: That's great in theory, but each project is also a microcasm14:47
salv-orlandomarun, mestery: right. Ultimately it's their call.14:47
marunBut different community, different vendors, maybe the same rules don't make sense?14:47
mesteryLets not get into forcing poilicy and culture from the top down14:47
emaganamestery: well, we need to find the way to influence properly the other teams14:47
mesteryThat's a shed I have no interest in painting today14:47
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mesteryLets move on14:47
salv-orlandoas russellb pointed out being "openstack" is just a badge from a technical perspective, but brings some benefits such as ATC status14:47
mesteryWe're done here with this for now.14:47
mestery#topic LBaaS14:47
*** openstack changes topic to "LBaaS (Meeting topic: networking)"14:47
salv-orlandook done14:47
mesteryxgerman: You're up!14:47
emaganamestery: in every operators meetup... neutron is the weak link.. and we are doing the best compare with other projects.. mmhh something is wrong!14:47
xgermanI am14:47
mesteryxgerman: What did you want to discuss today?14:48
xgermanSo we ran into the problem that you can specify a random (non existant) tenant-id when you are crerating an lb as an admin14:48
dougwigfrom his agenda item: "We ran into the problem that if an admin user adds a loadbalancer he can specify any, even a wrong id. We have been referred to https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1200585 and we don't agree with the consensus that because an admin knows what they are doing there shouldn't be any validation/verification of that parameter."14:48
openstackLaunchpad bug 1200585 in neutron "floatingip-create doesn't check if tenant_id exists or enabled" [Undecided,Invalid] - Assigned to Jian Wen (wenjianhn)14:48
xgermanwe feel that this tenant-id should be validated14:48
xgermanand when we file that bug we always get told that bug already covers it14:49
salv-orlandoxgerman: the same applies to every operation14:49
xgermanand I disagree that an admin can't make mistakes and we should balidate14:49
dougwigsalv-orlando: i think he's disagreeing with the general answer, not that it relates.14:49
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mesteryxgerman: Seems like as salv-orlando indicates, this is the same for every operation14:49
salv-orlandoxgerman: that's fine by me. Doing a validation requires an extra round trip to keystone or some sort of cache14:49
salv-orlandoif you can make that in a way that it does not affect scalability I'm fine to have it14:50
salv-orlandoso that we can go and implement that validation also in nova for instance14:50
egonIs there any value to an admin being able to create an LB for an ID that is *going* to exist?14:50
mestery#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/120058514:50
openstackLaunchpad bug 1200585 in neutron "floatingip-create doesn't check if tenant_id exists or enabled" [Undecided,Invalid] - Assigned to Jian Wen (wenjianhn)14:50
* mestery links the bug for meeting logs14:50
xgermanok, so we all agree it should be done but we don't know how14:50
marunAdmin use isn't likely to cause a scale issue14:51
xgermanegon, yes: If you get a support call14:51
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xgermanmarun +114:51
marunHow does nova handle this?14:51
marunAll openstack projects must have this problem14:51
salv-orlandomarun: yeah they have14:52
salv-orlandoSome might have added a keystone check in the pipeline in the meanwhile but I'm not aware of that14:52
marunsalv-orlando: they have the problem or already address it?14:52
salv-orlandoI think the tenant-id is not validated.14:52
salv-orlandowhich btw is project-id in most projects now14:52
egonxgerman: I agree with the support call case, but doesn't that argue for not validating?14:53
xgermanpeople mistype stuff all the time14:53
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xgermanso I am advocating for validating14:53
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marun_this sounds like something keystone middleware should take care of14:53
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marun_rather then every project doing it independently14:54
mesterymarun_: ++14:54
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mesteryWhat is the action item here then>14:54
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mesteryxgerman: Are you going to talk to the keystone folks to see what can be done there?14:54
xgermanyes, will do14:54
marunkeystone middleware -> keystone client api14:54
xgerman#action xgerman talk to keystone about project id validation14:55
marunSince we won't know whether validation is required until after the initial auth check14:55
mesteryThanks xgerman !14:55
mesteryOK, < 5 minutes left lets move on14:55
mestery#topic neutron-lib14:55
*** openstack changes topic to "neutron-lib (Meeting topic: networking)"14:55
mesterydougwig: 4 minutes sir :)14:55
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mestery#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/154736/14:56
dougwigthis agenda item is to get some eyeballs on the neutron-lib spec.  we'd like to get some of the groundwork laid *before* the summit, so we can do some work during one of the friday sprints.  if the summit decides against it, we can always abandon, but i can't speed up the repo creation/skeleton process.14:56
mesterydougwig: Note we only have a single firday sprint in the morning14:57
mestery#info Please review neutron-lib sprint so we can work to consensus and use sprint time at the summit to make progress14:57
mesteryThanks dougwig!14:57
anteayadougwig: I suggested to mestery and I'll suggest to you it wouldn't hurt to have an item on the infra agenda to ensure the steps for splitting are supported14:57
mestery#topic Open Discussion14:57
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking)"14:57
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dougwiganteaya: it's already there for today.  :)14:57
xekI'd like to mention that I submitted a spec for versioned-objects https://review.openstack.org/16895514:57
anteayadougwig: awesome thanks14:57
salv-orlandomestery: if neutron-lib is approved.... why don't we agree to put on hold all the other "refactorings"14:57
xekthere will also be two meetings (hopefuly) related to versioned-objects at the summit https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-oslo-summit-planning14:57
salv-orlandowe know we can hardly deal with one.14:57
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mesterysalv-orlando: Even the splitting out of the reference implementation?14:58
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mestery#link https://review.openstack.org/16895514:58
mesterythanks xek!14:58
marunif we split out the reference impl, that will change the game for neutron lib I think14:58
xek(I'll be at the summit)14:58
salv-orlandomestery: possibly, but I do not know how many things pertaining to agents neutron-lib refactoring will touch14:58
mesteryI think we have to split out the reference implementation14:59
dougwigmarun: i've heard that, and i'd like to hear more.  i'm not sure i agree, since neutron will still be about agents and rest and whatnot.  it'll get skinnier, yes.14:59
mesteryI'll work with dougwig on the order there14:59
salv-orlandoknowing how entangled things are in neutron, I would be cautious14:59
mesterysalv-orlando: ++14:59
marundougwig: agents get shunted out14:59
mesteryWise words14:59
mesteryOK 30 seconds left14:59
marundougwig: they are part of ref impl14:59
mesteryThanks for attending!14:59
mesteryBe on the lookout for an RC2 in the next two days!14:59
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"14:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr 21 14:59:38 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)14:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-04-21-14.00.html14:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-04-21-14.00.txt14:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-04-21-14.00.log.html14:59
HoangCXThanks! Bye14:59
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amotokiSukhdev: you wnat to type "all"15:00
dougwigsalv-orlando: aye, the neutron-lib work doesn't aim to be a big bang, or even to finish in one cycle.  the entangling is daunting.15:00
bauzas#startmeeting nova_scheduler15:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr 21 15:00:32 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is bauzas. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova_scheduler'15:00
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bauzasfolks, who's here to talk about the sched efforts ?15:00
bauzasn0ano can't make the call today, so I'm chairing it15:01
Sukhdevamotoki: don't know what happened - was typing bye - still sleepy I guess :-):-)15:01
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bauzasSukhdev: FYI, we started a new meeting15:01
amotokiSukhdev: :-)  I think you just typed "tab" or something too first..15:01
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amotokisorry for botherig.15:02
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Sukhdevbauzas: sorry15:02
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bauzasedleafe: sounds like I will have to offer beers at Vancouver again15:03
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bauzasso, the next one raising hand is giving a free beer for Vancouver15:04
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egonI'll raise my hand, but I was just here to watch.15:05
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bauzasedleafe: eh :)15:06
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bauzasedleafe: burned by IRC15:06
bauzas(17:05:18) edleafe est désormais connu sous le nom de not_edleafe15:06
edleafeoh, that was definitely not me!15:07
bauzasah ah15:07
bauzasok, let's start, it should be quick15:07
bauzas#topic open discussion15:07
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)"15:07
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bauzasso, no precise agenda today as I was afk for 2 days because I ran a meetup15:08
bauzasthat said, FYI, I just presented our efforts at the meetup and I gave good feedback :)15:08
edleafebauzas: good to hear!15:08
bauzasmost of our work is being silently supported, so thanks guys15:08
bauzasanything you want to discuss ? Vancouver maybe ?15:09
egonI was looking at scheduler options in the tree. It looks like we're down to a filter scheduler, and an ironic scheduler?15:09
bauzasegon: nah, Ironic still uses the FilterScheduler15:09
bauzasegon: Ironic just has a different HostManager for counting resources, that's it15:10
egonbauzas: got it. thanks!15:10
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bauzasso, guys, maybe a few pointers15:10
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egonSo, the trick if you want some new rule/behavior is to add someting in a filter.15:10
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bauzasegon: yup15:10
bauzasso, L83 and follows are the BPs I'm targeting for L15:11
edleafeegon: also the caching scheduler15:11
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bauzasedleafe: and the ChanceScheduler too :)15:11
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bauzasegon: http://sbauza.github.io/2015/04/20/#/15:12
bauzasegon: you'll find some materials about how works the scheduler15:12
egonbauzas: perfect15:13
* bauzas didn't want to tease, but that's it15:13
bauzasegon: you'll be missing the presenter's comments, but I guess it's self-explanatory15:13
bauzasso, back to our Liberty planning15:13
bauzasalex_xu: edleafe: feel free to amend some points in the etherpad if you want15:14
alex_xubauzas: ok15:14
bauzasnothing really new but https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/shared-state-scheduler15:14
bauzasI'm working on a POC before writing the spec15:15
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alex_xucool, will read it15:16
bauzasokay, I assume there is no real other question nor point15:16
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bauzasedleafe: ?15:16
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edleafebauzas: in general, will this be a scheduler-owmed db backing the shared state?15:16
bauzasedleafe: I would prefer call it a datastore15:16
bauzasedleafe: but that would be driver-driven15:17
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bauzasedleafe: so yeah basically the POC would be using the regular SQLA wiring15:17
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edleafebauzas: so that removes the need to constantly query the nova db?15:17
bauzasedleafe: no, that's orthogonal15:18
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egonReducing race conditions would be great.15:18
egonWe see double-scheduling of compute nodes when certain requests are made close together.15:18
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bauzasedleafe: I mean, populating the datastore would still be needed, but yeah it would just make sure that updating HostState would be something transactional15:19
edleafebauzas: ok, I'll wait for the spec then15:19
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bauzasedleafe: wait for the POC rather15:19
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bauzasokay, anything else ?15:21
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edleafenot from me15:21
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bauzasok, crickets15:22
bauzasI guess we can safely go back to our various concerns15:23
bauzasty all15:23
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:23
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr 21 15:23:07 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:23
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2015/nova_scheduler.2015-04-21-15.00.html15:23
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2015/nova_scheduler.2015-04-21-15.00.txt15:23
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openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2015/nova_scheduler.2015-04-21-15.00.log.html15:23
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serg_melikyan#startmeeting murano17:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr 21 17:00:08 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is serg_melikyan. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: murano)"17:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'murano'17:00
serg_melikyanWelcome to the weekly meeting :)17:00
boris-42serg_melikyan: it's rally meeting time17:00
serg_melikyanboris-42: nope17:00
boris-42serg_melikyan: yes17:01
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boris-42serg_melikyan: every week on this time17:01
boris-42serg_melikyan: we had meeting17:01
serg_melikyanboris-42: nope :) We had meeting here for years :)17:01
boris-42serg_melikyan: and we as well17:01
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr 21 17:01:54 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/murano/2015/murano.2015-04-21-17.00.html17:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/murano/2015/murano.2015-04-21-17.00.txt17:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/murano/2015/murano.2015-04-21-17.00.log.html17:01
serg_melikyanboris-42: my bad, wrong channel :'(17:02
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boris-42#startmeeting Rally17:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr 21 17:02:33 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is boris-42. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'rally'17:02
boris-42andreykurilin: ping17:02
boris-42msdubov_: ping17:02
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serg_melikyanboris-42: sorry :)17:03
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serg_melikyanIt was funny - I was deadly sure that it is our meeting :)17:03
boris-42serg_melikyan: =))17:03
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oanufrievhi, guys17:05
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boris-42rook: hi there17:06
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rookhey hey!17:07
boris-42So should we start?)17:07
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andreykurilin__hi all)17:08
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boris-42okay great=)17:10
boris-42#topic Meeting changes17:10
*** openstack changes topic to "Meeting changes (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:10
boris-42so we were asked not to move to our room *17:10
boris-42and be in one of openstack-meeting rooms17:10
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boris-42so seems like it will be quite hard to chose some time for it17:11
boris-42meteorfox: btw is it too early for you17:11
boris-42if we move our meeting to 1-2 hours earlier?17:11
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meteorfoxboris-42: well, so when there's daylight saving, it's at 12 pm, and without daylight saving is at 11 am17:12
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boris-42meteorfox: ah so it's quite ok17:12
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meteorfoxboris-42: it's ok with me17:13
dmelladoI guess it'd be great for most Europe-based folks ;)17:13
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boris-42dmellado: yep17:15
boris-42okay I will try to find proper time to do the things17:15
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boris-42#topic 2 meetings / week17:16
*** openstack changes topic to "2 meetings / week (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:16
boris-42So we are going to have 2 meetings / week17:16
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boris-42One is related to release management and I would like to have it in #openstack-rally chat17:17
boris-42another common (for discussion of everything)17:17
boris-42we should keep in #openstack-meetings room17:17
msdubov_boris-42 Let's do as you suggest17:17
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boris-42#topic meeting Agenda17:18
*** openstack changes topic to "meeting Agenda (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:18
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boris-42msdubov_: are you ready to manage this?17:18
boris-42msdubov_: ??17:19
boris-42so basically I think that we should do next things:17:20
boris-42* create template for weekly agenda17:20
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boris-42* put all required info each week17:20
boris-42* make rally meeting announce weekly17:20
boris-42so not so much work17:20
msdubov_boris-42: Do you mean 'common' meetings? Not release meetings?17:20
msdubov_boris-42: Anyway I'm ready to take over this stuff17:21
boris-42msdubov_: both17:21
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msdubov_boris-42: Ok17:21
redixinis there an ird bot command like "add to meeting agenda"17:21
msdubov_boris-42: So weekly announce in openstack-dev?17:21
redixinwe need simple way for adding items to agenda17:21
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boris-42redixin: wiki page17:21
boris-42msdubov_: yep like other project does17:22
redixinwiki page is not simple way =)17:22
boris-42msdubov_: day before the meeting they put in mailing list Rally meeting reminder17:22
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boris-42msdubov_: with agenda17:22
boris-42redixin: why?17:22
redixinyou want me to answer lol?17:23
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boris-42redixin: yep17:23
boris-42redixin: I do not understand17:23
boris-42redixin: why it's hard to change wiki page to add new points17:23
boris-42redixin: it's takes just few seconds17:23
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redixinas you say17:24
msdubov_boris-42: Why not a google doc?17:24
msdubov_boris-42: We use google docs for everything17:24
boris-42msdubov_: lol17:24
msdubov_releases, roadmap, ...17:24
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boris-42msdubov_: so usually projects are using wiki pages17:25
boris-42msdubov_: but we can use google docs17:25
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boris-42any ideas?17:26
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boris-42anybody read this thread?)17:26
dmelladolol, yep ;)17:26
redixinplease dont17:27
dmelladoI wouldn't mind, just use the tool you're more comfortable with :)17:27
boris-42redixin: so wiki or google docs?17:27
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dmelladofor the meetings we could even use an etherpad :D17:27
boris-42okay wiki=)17:27
boris-42i will creat inital version & template17:27
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boris-42#topic rally-coverage-job17:28
*** openstack changes topic to "rally-coverage-job (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:28
boris-42Okay recently we made rally unit test coverage job voting17:28
boris-42so now you can't merge patches without almot 100% unit test coverage17:28
boris-42#topic stackforge/rally -> openstack/rally17:29
*** openstack changes topic to "stackforge/rally -> openstack/rally (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:29
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boris-42Okay we moved from stackforge to openstack finally!-)17:29
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boris-42#topic Introducing rally-ci project17:29
*** openstack changes topic to "Introducing rally-ci project (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:29
boris-42redixin: could you please say about it17:29
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boris-42because I believe people does not what it is17:29
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redixinrally-ci is daemon who listening gerrit stream and launching jobs17:30
redixinit very handy if you limited in resources17:31
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boris-42here is the link: https://github.com/redixin/rally-ci17:31
redixinrally-ci can run on localhost and start jobs in docker. it takes a few second from uploading patch to unittests results17:31
redixinit is not on review.openstack.org yet17:32
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boris-42redixin: I hope it should be soon https://review.openstack.org/#/c/166962/17:32
redixinso thats it17:33
boris-42redixin: you forgot the main part17:33
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boris-42redixin: that it simplifes running rally against every patch17:33
boris-42redixin: on own hardware17:34
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redixinit simplifies running anything17:34
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boris-42Any questions??17:34
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boris-42seems like no questions =)17:35
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clarkbI have a qusetion17:35
clarkbdoes it run anything other than rally/tempest tests?17:35
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redixinclarkb, rally-ci?17:36
redixincurrently it run rally vs devstack and MOS clouds, and also unit tests17:36
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redixinbut it can run anything17:36
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clarkbalso, was there a specific reason to not just use zuul which is also a daemon that listens to the gerrit even stream to launch jobs17:37
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redixinrally-ci is more flexible and less resources usage17:37
clarkbcan you expand on that? how is it more flexible? and zuul resource usage should be pretty low17:38
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redixinis it possible to not use openstack for test vm's?17:39
clarkbyou can use any gearman worker17:39
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boris-42clarkb: so basically what we would like is to call rally for creating env and then run rally to test it17:39
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redixinso i should use complex setup with jenkins zuul gearman17:40
redixinall this java stuff17:40
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clarkbhttp://cacti.openstack.org/cacti/graph_view.php?action=tree&tree_id=1&leaf_id=23&page=3 is resource usage. The node has a lot of RAM due to a tmpfs that is no longer in use, we should probably trim that node down17:40
clarkbredixin: you don't need any java stuff17:40
redixinor use one simple daemon on python with plugins and one simple config file17:40
clarkbredixin: thats exactly what zuul is17:41
clarkbits a simpel daemon written in python with one config file (well two if you count the ini to point at a gerrit)17:41
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redixinzuul is not simple17:42
clarkbboris-42: I am not sure what that means, but zuul runs rally many times per day for you already17:42
clarkbboris-42: so I think zuul can run rally...17:42
boris-42clarkb: okay I think we should investigate17:43
boris-42clarkb: this during next week17:43
boris-42clarkb: and continue discussion on next week17:44
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boris-42#topic Free discussion17:45
*** openstack changes topic to "Free discussion (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:45
boris-42anything to discuss?17:45
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clarkbboris-42: redixin the feedback would be good. I think we see zuul as fitting this mold and if there are problems with it that can be addressed filing bugs and other feedback is valuable17:45
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boris-42clarkb: thank you for taking part in meeting17:46
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boris-42clarkb: we deff need to ensure that rally-ci is not the clone of zuul17:46
boris-42clarkb: and if it is we need to migrate to zuul17:47
boris-42if it is possible17:47
redixinthe only problem with zuul is too complex for configuration17:47
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boris-42okay if nothing to discuss let's finish meeting17:49
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:49
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr 21 17:49:51 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:49
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-04-21-17.02.html17:49
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-04-21-17.02.txt17:49
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-04-21-17.02.log.html17:49
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stevemarping dolphm, ayoung, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, nkinder, lloydm, shrekuma, ksavich, hrybacki, rharwood, grantbow, vdreamarkitex, raildo, rodrigods, amakarov, ajayaa, hogepodge, breton, lhcheng, nonameentername, samueldmq, htruta, amolock, wanghong, fmarco76, davechen, dims, ericksonsantos, erictchiu18:00
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stevemarits that epic fun time of the week!18:00
ayoungstevemar, you running this one?18:00
morganfainbergHe is.18:00
stevemarayoung, yep, our fearless leader is on a mobile devide18:00
ayoungmorganfainberg, he still doesn't realize you are grroming him as a  replacement PTL.18:01
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ayoungMake sure he doesn't find out.18:01
stevemarayoung, who? what? where?18:01
stevemari think we have enough18:01
stevemarfolks can trickle in18:01
stevemar#startmeeting keystone18:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr 21 18:02:03 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is stevemar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:02
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stevemarlinky link: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting18:02
bknudson#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting18:02
stevemarthanks bknudson :P18:02
bknudsonmeetbot doesn't get linky link yet, I don't think.18:02
stevemar#topic Meeting schedule18:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Meeting schedule (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:02
ayoungstevemar, you going to do the vote to see which irc nicks we can cull?18:02
openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0xa7a0a50>18:03
stevemar#topic Rollcall18:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Rollcall (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:03
bknudsondon't put me on the roll call list. I've got a meeting invite anyways.18:03
gyee#vote yes!18:03
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gyeeoops jump the gun there18:03
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stevemar#startvote Rollcall? here18:03
openstackBegin voting on: Rollcall? Valid vote options are here.18:03
openstackVote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.18:03
samueldmq#vote here18:03
rharwood#vote here18:03
bknudson#vote abstain18:03
openstackbknudson: abstain is not a valid option. Valid options are here.18:03
rodrigods#vote here18:03
ayoung#vote here18:04
raildo#vote here18:04
marekd#vote here18:04
davechen#vote here18:04
gyee#vote here18:04
david8hu#vote here18:04
lhcheng#vote here18:04
stevemar#vote here18:04
morganfainberg#vote here18:04
amakarov_#vote here18:04
ericksonsantos#vote here18:04
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stevemar10 more seconds....18:04
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dstanek#vote here18:04
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htruta#vote here18:04
stevemarquickly jamielennox !18:04
dolphm#vote here18:04
jamielennox#vote here18:04
morganfainberg#vote hiding-from-stevemar18:04
openstackmorganfainberg: hiding-from-stevemar is not a valid option. Valid options are here.18:05
openstackVoted on "Rollcall?" Results are18:05
openstackhere (18): rodrigods, gyee, dstanek, ayoung, morganfainberg, lhcheng, dolphm, davechen, marekd, david8hu, samueldmq, ericksonsantos, amakarov_, htruta, jamielennox, rharwood, raildo, stevemar18:05
lbragstadahhh. damn18:05
lbragstadI missed it18:05
stevemaralright, we should have a new rollcall list18:05
stevemardon't worry lbragstad i got your back18:05
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lbragstadthanks stevemar!18:05
stevemar#topic Meeting schedule.18:05
morganfainbergit's a union of the first three meeitngs of the cycle fwiw18:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Meeting schedule. (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:05
stevemaris everyone still good with this time?18:06
morganfainbergthis is the time to change it if we aren't good with this time.18:06
bknudsonworks for me.18:06
marekdstevemar: whos is not essentially us-based now?18:06
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bknudsonI only have to put up with it until dst ends.18:06
morganfainbergbknudson, lol18:06
marekdme, henry, jamielennox18:06
morganfainbergrodrigods is not US.18:07
htrutaneither are me and raildo18:07
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marekdmorganfainberg: he is 'close to US-time zone' i think :-)18:07
htrutabut it's close18:07
jamielennoxyea, later is always good - but it can't be any earlier for me18:07
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stevemarmarekd, yep18:07
bknudsonlater works for me.18:07
davechenmareked: I am not in the US, but I am fine with it.18:07
dstaneklater would be fine for me too18:07
bknudsonI guess henrynash would not like later.18:07
jamielennoxi think later not so good for the EU though18:07
morganfainbergwe could push this later but it might be bad for marekd  and Henrynash18:07
bknudsonand marekd18:07
amakarov_meeting starts at 9pm for me and breton18:07
marekddavechen: what time is it now?18:08
davechenmarekd: 2 AM here.18:08
stevemar2am for davechen ?18:08
gyeeI am fine so as long as it is between 9am - 5pm PST18:08
dolphman hour or two later works for me, but i like to have time left in the day after the meeting18:08
morganfainbergdavechen, wow, serious trooper! :)18:08
bknudsonseveral teams have 2 meeting times and switch off.18:08
jamielennoxdavechen: :O - damn18:08
rodrigodshere is 3 PM, earlier and later is good18:08
morganfainbergbknudson, i'd like to avoid that unless we really really benefit from it.18:08
morganfainbergbknudson, but if we have a diverse enough group we could do that18:08
ayoungGonna be painful for someone no matter when we hold it18:08
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stevemarayoung, yep18:08
marekdstevemar: ok, so i think it's impossible to make it 'not to early (jamielennox would suffer)' and 'not too late (davechen will be angry)'18:09
ayoungkeep it steady if no drive to change18:09
bknudsonI don't think we know what we're missing since people don't show up if they're asleep.18:09
morganfainberglets keep it where it is for now, and discuss if we want to alternate at the summit18:09
jamielennoxi'm ok with where it is now18:09
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morganfainbergand if we want to, we'll find a slot and do alternating times or similar.18:09
stevemaronto next topic...18:10
stevemar#topic Liberty Priorities18:10
*** openstack changes topic to "Liberty Priorities (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:10
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stevemarmorganfainberg, i think you have the floor, if you can type on phone fast enough18:10
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morganfainberg#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-liberty-priority-specs18:10
morganfainbergwe have this etherpad18:11
bknudsonmorganfainberg is fast on the phone.18:11
marekdApple (R)18:11
morganfainbergbknudson, i got back home.18:11
morganfainbergbknudson, i was walking back from breakfast. but just sat down.18:11
morganfainberganyway. etherpad, that is the general gist of what we're looking at18:11
stevemari think we want to keep the amount of "new" features fairly small for liberty?18:11
morganfainbergour target is 5 "new" (read: api impacting) features18:12
gyeequality instead of quantity!18:12
stevemargyee, that's the goal anyway18:12
morganfainbergthings like "refactor for stable ABIs" while feature-like, is not something i classify as a "new" feature18:12
samueldmqmorganfainberg, can anyone add ideas in there?18:12
morganfainbergsamueldmq, yes18:12
gyeeif your paycheck is depending on statanalytics that might be sad though :)18:12
marekdstevemar: morganfainberg: don't worry, i will come up with something federation-related sooner or later :-)18:12
samueldmqmorganfainberg, nice, thx18:13
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morganfainbergso, this week please check the list. please put your name with +/- vote for the various things18:13
ayoungFederation should be core18:13
morganfainbergfeel free to use18:13
morganfainberg'++' for high priority18:13
dstanekgyee: if your paycheck depends on that you may want to find a new place to work :-)18:13
stevemarsatanalytics hehe18:13
morganfainbergnext week we will cull this down and look to see what features have Specs proposed/pending for backlog18:13
morganfainbergand determine what we're going to focus on18:14
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stevemardid we want to discuss any of the items here now?18:14
morganfainbergstevemar, lets circle up at the end and discuss specifics then18:14
morganfainbergstevemar, so we can get through the rest of the schedule18:14
morganfainbergalso table the summit bits18:14
stevemarmorgabra, skip to Midcycle update ?18:15
morganfainbergstevemar, yep18:15
stevemar#topic Midcycle update18:15
*** openstack changes topic to "Midcycle update (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:15
stevemarthat's a while away, but alright18:15
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morganfainbergSince we had an overwhelming majorty wanting a midcycle18:15
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morganfainbergwe are going to do one. I will send an email to the list this week or next.18:15
morganfainbergconfirming some details.18:15
bknudsonlet's have it someplace boring then nobody will want a midcycle.18:15
morganfainbergayoung, has some info for us.18:15
ayoungOK...so here is my working assumptions18:16
dstanekbknudson: you can come to Cleveland then :-)18:16
bknudsoncleveland rocks!18:16
morganfainbergdstanek, i was thinking needles CA18:16
ayoungpeople want to have it in Boston...but not in Westford.18:16
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ayoungThis sound about right?18:16
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morganfainbergWestford wouldn't be awful either if Boston isn't doable.18:16
dstaneki liked the cambridge idea someone had18:16
ayoungIf we do Westford,  RH can easily host etc.18:16
bknudsonnova is having midcycle here in rochester.18:16
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morganfainbergif we have space, anywhere in that area would be good.18:17
ayoungCambridge and Boston are pretty interchagnnable.  i was looking in to Boston University...the MOC folks are willing to help out18:17
david8huLevi's Standium in Santa Clara smells like a brand new car18:17
dstaneki would love someplace drivable!18:17
morganfainbergayoung, BU would be awesome.18:17
lbragstadbknudson: about time :)18:17
ayoungits a good location, and neutral company wise.18:17
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ayoungThere are hotels along the river ,adn with Summer time, the schools should be out, and prices a little lower18:17
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ayoungI chatted quickly with the HP rep at the Boston OpenStack meetup, as well as Dell, and both are willing to helpout somewhat18:18
morganfainbergi will also work to find out if we can do a hotel block.18:18
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ayoungI'll drive forward with this if I get a thumbs up from the team?18:18
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* morganfainberg likes the BU idea.18:19
ayoungroughly the location18:19
bknudsonI'm not picky.18:19
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david8huayoung, you sure you dont want it in the Bahamas?18:19
ayoungdavid8hu, this way I don't have to travel18:19
dstanekBU sounds great18:19
ayoungI live two towns over18:19
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morganfainberganyone against BU as a target?18:20
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morganfainbergayoung, we don't have a release schedule yet...18:20
bknudsonlooks like there's some hotels in the vacinity.18:20
ayoungright and yes18:20
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ayoungbknudson, I'd probably target the one right across the river:18:21
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ayoungHyatt Regency Cambridge18:21
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bknudsonI need to swim?18:21
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ayoungbut we'll do the due18:21
ayoungbknudson, in the Charles?18:21
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bknudsonI'll join the rowing team18:21
ayoungIts very walkable.  BU bridge is right there18:21
stevemardavid8hu, maybe one day: http://www.bahamaslocal.com/showlisting/5965/IBM_Bahamas_Limited.html18:21
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bknudsonit's right near fenway.18:22
david8hustevemar, thinking about taking the disney cruise there ;)18:22
stevemarboston is a good call for the summer midcycle18:22
morganfainberganyone have the proposed release schedule yet?18:22
morganfainbergerm. thread link18:22
* morganfainberg can't find it.18:22
stevemarnot so much for the january one18:22
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ayoungOK...I'll follow up.18:23
stevemardidn't even know it was a thread yet18:23
morganfainbergiberty-1: June 25th18:23
morganfainbergliberty-2: July 30th18:23
morganfainbergliberty-3: September 3rd18:23
morganfainbergfinal release: October 15th18:23
morganfainbergok so, ayoung, assume that is our schedule [tenative]18:23
morganfainbergno one has complained yet about it18:23
ayoungIf it is the week of 7/20 unfortunatley those are all way games for the Red Sox18:23
ayoungprev/next are home games18:23
gyeeyou guys stole the Panda!18:24
morganfainbergayoung, historically we'd do July 10th week18:24
morganfainbergayoung, 2 wks till milestone-218:24
david8huPoor SF Giant Panda18:24
morganfainberg2wks after midcycle.18:24
dstaneki just don't want it to be aug 1-3 (PyOhio and all)18:24
ayoungmorganfainberg, so look into July 8-10?18:24
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morganfainbergsomewhere in there18:25
ayoungits the 4th of July weekedn...people might be taking vacation18:25
morganfainbergyeah lets not do jul4-timeframe18:25
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morganfainbergthe week of 13-1718:25
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morganfainbergif we're aiming for pre-m218:25
ayoungso either 13-15  or 15-17?18:25
marekdthe sooner the better i think.18:25
morganfainbergor we could push to post m218:25
dstanekare we thinking the same deal Mon-Wed of a given week?18:25
morganfainbergand use it as a hack-fest to test features and hack-a-way at bugs.18:26
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ayoungSunday is the Yankees Game...ticks are already sold out18:26
morganfainbergand non-API impacting "new things"18:26
gyeepost m2 sounds good as we'll be discussing spec for the M release anyway18:26
morganfainbergif we go beyond m2, we need to commit to being able to land features w/o the midcycle18:26
morganfainbergi think we can do it18:26
stevemara few weeks before m2 cuts is ideal in my mind18:27
stevemarlike a week or two18:27
morganfainbergayoung, so lets aim for wk of july 17, alternate wk of jul 30 [milestone 2 cut week]18:27
ayoungGot it18:27
morganfainbergwk of 17th is preferable, but if we can't make it work, due to Jul 4, etc, we need to go later18:28
dstanekit the week of July 30 try to make it early in the week18:28
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morganfainbergdstanek, ++18:28
ayoungdstanek, 27-29 Jul?18:28
dstaneki may be speaking at PyOhio so I'll have to be there on the 31st18:28
ayoungI turn 44 on the 18th18:28
ayoungBut that is a Saturday, so I'm safe18:29
dstanek27-29 would probably be fine is the prior week doesn't work out18:29
morganfainberg#action ayoung to look into midcycle at BU: week of july 17th (preferable) or week of july 30th (alternate)18:29
stevemarthis is like the meeting times all over again :P18:29
david8huFree meal at Denny's18:29
morganfainbergok i think we're good18:29
dstanekwhen do you think we'll know for sure? i have until May 15 to submit a proposal; so i could just wait18:29
ayoungMy brother is a Bartender.  I'll put him on restaurant recommendation duty18:29
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morganfainbergdstanek, before may if we're doing this.18:30
morganfainbergi want this to be confirmed before the summit18:30
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stevemari think we're all good for now18:30
stevemar#topic "Official Publications for Identity"18:30
*** openstack changes topic to ""Official Publications for Identity" (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:30
morganfainbergSo infra does something awesome.18:30
marekdyeah, what's that actually?18:31
bknudsonthey do everything awesome.18:31
stevemarthats not news18:31
lbragstadbknudson: ++18:31
morganfainberg#link http://docs.openstack.org/infra/publications/18:31
lbragstadinfra is awesome at being infra, duh!18:31
morganfainbergwell i mean it is infra! (cc jeblair, clarkb, mordred) They are awesome!18:31
morganfainbergso anyway18:31
morganfainbergi like that they have clear official publications18:31
stevemarlooks like a bunch of ppts18:32
morganfainbergso is all of infra ^ (not meaning to exclude people from that list).18:32
morganfainbergstevemar, they are not ppts18:32
morganfainbergthey are html18:32
morganfainbergso. we should consider making official publications part of keystone18:32
bknudsonis the source in git?18:32
morganfainbergbknudson, in a git tree18:32
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gyeeisn't ayoung's younglogic the official publication for identity? :)18:33
ayounggyee, yes18:33
dstanekthat would be a great idea18:33
bknudsonI wish we'd spend more time on the admin guide.18:33
morganfainbergbknudson, all docs need love18:33
lbragstadmorganfainberg: so what kind of stuff can we put in there?18:33
clarkbmy only feedback was to be careful to avoid putting things there that should arguably go in keystone's documentation18:33
marekdmorganfainberg: would it include some whitepaper-like  or publications like ayoung blog or the one we have at cern?18:33
ayounggyee, mine is a programmers notebook...with all that implies18:33
bknudsonhttp://docs.openstack.org/admin-guide-cloud/content/ch-identity-mgmt-config.html is really pathetic.18:33
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gyeelets publish them18:33
ayoungI'd think it should be cleaned up post blog...my blog is a decent format, but the info is from "I did it once and it worked" type stuff18:34
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ayoungor "here is what I think we should do"18:34
stevemarmarekd, it looks most like... how-tos18:34
morganfainberglbragstad, the point is if you give a talk especially if it's relevant to how keystone is deployed/interesting beyond the basic docs18:34
morganfainbergit should go there18:34
ayoungso, we could take all of our blog posts as input, but then polish them...for example18:34
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morganfainbergayoung, that is the idea, take the focus off "well this one time i did thing x"18:34
morganfainberganother good example would be rodrigods' blog on k2k18:34
morganfainbergor presentations at conferences18:34
gyeeI really like ayoung's use-case specific blogs, like if you want to do this, here are the steps18:34
morganfainbergmull on this.18:35
ayoungOr pretty much anything on dolph's blog, to include the food.18:35
bknudsonI'd rather read a blog than a ppt.18:35
marekdstevemar: #link http://openstack-in-production.blogspot.ch/ -it is more like 'sharing our experience', something you don't necesarilly find on official docs18:35
bknudsonunless the ppt has some really nice slide transitions.18:35
morganfainbergbknudson, the idea is they'd be published at HTML, either slide-style or blog-style18:35
morganfainbergthey are publications18:35
morganfainbergit should work in a browser18:35
morganfainbergbut they would be *our* official publications18:35
morganfainberganother good example would be using session auth w/ middleware18:35
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marekdjamielennox also publishes some nice posts18:36
ayoungmarekd, we really all should18:36
morganfainbergor more in-depth session examples that don't belong in the sphix generated docs.18:36
ayoungI've seen goosd things out of most of the team members18:36
morganfainbergmull it over.18:36
morganfainbergthink on how it should look18:36
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lbragstadmarekd: ++ there are a couple nice client-side posts from jamielennox that would be good examples of a publication18:36
morganfainbergi'd like to make this a reality in liberty18:36
gyeemorganfainberg, so this is going to be a repo18:37
morganfainbergwe can publish it to an official openstack.org location (keystone docs, or work to do like infra does), however it's approached.18:37
stevemari think we need to figure out what to do about the admin guide18:37
gyee just like the specs repo?18:37
morganfainberggyee, it would be and reviewed18:37
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marekdmorganfainberg: ok, so is there any plan for that? Somebody voluteers to gather publications-proposals and later filter the inappripriate ones?18:37
samueldmqbtw, I have written one on 'domain specific backends on sql'18:37
ayoungHey, one last thing on the Midcycle,  is the preferred range July 15-17  (Wed-Friday)18:37
morganfainbergmarekd, you'd propose the publication to the repo where it lives.18:37
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morganfainbergayoung, yes.18:37
morganfainbergayoung, that works.18:37
morganfainbergmarekd, it would be reviewed. require 2x+2 / +A18:38
morganfainbergmarekd, just like a spec or code review18:38
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morganfainbergmarekd, then it becomes an official publication18:38
david8huayoung, I hope we all invited to your bday party :)18:38
marekdmorganfainberg: makes sense!18:38
marekdmorganfainberg: repo link ?18:38
david8huon the 18th18:38
morganfainbergmarekd, no repo exists yet18:38
marekdmorganfainberg: ok.18:38
lbragstadmorganfainberg: so what about maintaining them?18:38
stevemarmorganfainberg, how is infra doing it?18:38
morganfainbergmarekd, we can either do what infra does: per-branch publication in a seperate repo18:38
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morganfainbergor we can place them in our tree under sometihng /docs like but handled specifically for publications18:39
lbragstadmorganfainberg: I imagine they will get out of date, so are we going to maintain them like standard keystone docs too?18:39
morganfainberglbragstad, it is on us to maintain them but look at the infra link18:39
morganfainbergthey have previous versions18:39
morganfainbergwe can cycle things to older versions if they are tagged.18:39
morganfainbergto a specific release etc18:39
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morganfainberganyway just wanted to seed the idea18:40
morganfainbergplease think about it18:40
morganfainberglets move on.18:40
morganfainberglots to do18:40
marekdmorganfainberg: imho, it's a good idea.18:40
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dstaneki have to bail to pick up my kid; i'll be watching on mobile though18:40
marekdthere are some 'epic' publications here, floating around and used many times (like rodrigods blogspost about k2k)18:40
gyeethat one's awesome18:41
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morganfainbergstevemar, next topic plz.18:41
marekdor jamielennox post about sessions.18:41
stevemar#topic keystoneclient / keystonemiddleware stable releases18:41
*** openstack changes topic to "keystoneclient / keystonemiddleware stable releases (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:41
stevemar#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bug/1411063,n,z18:41
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bknudsonnot much to it... we've got some security fixes in stable releases of clients / middleware18:41
bknudsonso was wondering about a release.18:42
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gyeedidn't we just released 1.6.018:42
morganfainbergbknudson, we're waiting for a fix from dhellmann18:42
morganfainbergbknudson, so we don't break the world18:42
bknudsonthis would be stable releases (e.g., 1.5.118:42
morganfainbergbknudson, when we release18:42
jamielennoxmorganfainberg: fix for what18:42
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morganfainbergjamielennox, uncapped libs.18:42
morganfainbergjamielennox, or capped.. or something related to stable branches18:42
bknudsonthat's in master, not stable.18:43
morganfainbergbknudson, was talking to ttx about it today18:43
gyeemorganfainberg, I just saw an email about middleware 1.6.0 release18:43
jamielennoxok, that saga is ongoing18:43
gyeethat's the latest right?18:43
morganfainbergbknudson, we are waiting until dhellmann for stable releases later this week.18:43
bknudsonwe've got stable branches for clients and keystonemiddleware now18:43
bknudsonso we can release a fix for 1.5.018:43
morganfainbergbknudson, this was specifically for the stable branches.18:43
gyeeoh, nevermind, we're talking about stable18:43
stevemargyee, yep18:44
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morganfainbergbknudson, but we will be doing stable releases this week.18:44
stevemardhellmann is currently spamming everyone :)18:44
bknudsonkeystonemiddleware stable/juno is *almost* working.18:44
bknudsonI think the rest are working.18:44
morganfainbergbknudson, thanks for chasing down all the ick on fixing those18:44
morganfainbergbknudson, really appreciate it18:44
bknudsonhaving these stable branches should help out my team.18:45
morganfainbergok lets move to the next topic.18:45
ayoungWe should be producing Stable Branch RDO based RPMS for people than need to test them18:45
morganfainbergas a note: we will review no-spec BPs in -keystone after this meeting18:45
stevemar#topic Any needs to enfore unique constraint18:46
*** openstack changes topic to "Any needs to enfore unique constraint (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:46
stevemardavechen, dstanek ^18:46
davechenI saw some comment from David about this bug (https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1439928)18:46
openstackLaunchpad bug 1439928 in Keystone "can create the same type and name of a service with v3 API" [Medium,Won't fix] - Assigned to huanghao (huang1hao)18:46
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davechenand dolphm, so that may not b valid bug.18:46
morganfainbergdavechen, we can't make service.name unique18:46
ayoungcan't break it18:46
morganfainbergit would break lots of deployments18:46
ayoungwe don't know how people are using it18:46
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morganfainbergwe *could* make service.name + service.type unique18:46
morganfainbergbut it still leaves doors open to break people18:47
davechenyes, I want to know what you think about this bug18:47
openstackLaunchpad bug 1403408 in Keystone "Redundant endpoints found in the table "endpoint"" [Medium,Confirmed] - Assigned to Dave Chen (wei-d-chen)18:47
bknudsonI think this would be against the API stability guideline: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/APIChangeGuidelines18:47
stevemarmorganfainberg, i would think that still breaks people18:47
morganfainbergstevemar, less likely, but possible.18:47
davechenlooks like they are similar18:47
morganfainbergthis is a case of: sucks but we're stuck with it.18:47
ayoungconfig option, maybe?18:47
bknudsonso we could change it but that would require opt-in.18:47
morganfainbergayoung, with a config option and enforced at the manager and/or driver layer?18:48
morganfainbergsounds icky to me.18:48
stevemar++ on the ickyness18:48
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bknudsonwouldn't be thread-safe.18:48
jamielennoxyour config option would need to detect if it was an upgrade or a new install18:48
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morganfainbergbknudson, at the driver layer we could do it.18:48
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morganfainbergbknudson, with optimistic locking style... but still ick18:48
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morganfainbergwe just need to document this limitation i think18:48
morganfainbergand say "sorry wont fix" across the board18:49
morganfainbergwith microversions and/or V4 API we can fix.18:49
ayoungis it really a problem?18:49
morganfainbergbut not until then.18:49
stevemarayoung, not really18:49
morganfainbergayoung, the non-unique name+type is a ux complaint18:49
bknudsonI keep doing this and it hurts.18:49
jamielennoxyea, it creates weird catalogs too18:49
gyeein the real word, adding a new service is a workflow18:50
stevemarwe can definitely fix it for v4 or microversions18:50
davechendocument it is good idea. Shall we also document it about the "endponts"?18:50
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morganfainbergdavechen, yeah lets add clear warnings/documentation18:50
davechenlooks like endpoint_group also miss unique contraint.18:50
stevemarten minutes left, next topic18:51
morganfainbergdavechen, endpoint_group is a slightly different deal18:51
morganfainberganyway next topic.18:51
morganfainbergstevemar, back to liberty priorities18:51
morganfainbergif any are meant to be discussed18:51
stevemar#topic Liberty Priorities part duex18:51
*** openstack changes topic to "Liberty Priorities part duex (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:51
stevemar#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-liberty-priority-specs18:51
morganfainberg#info please review https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Keystone-liberty-summit-brainstorm and +/- with name for support of discussion at the summit (fishbowl sessions)18:51
gyeeI need to catch ayoung about a generic way to do tokenless18:52
gyeemaybe after lunch18:52
ayounggyee, sure18:52
ayounggyee, I think it is really close18:52
stevemaranyone have any strong feelings towards the proposed specs?18:52
gyeeayoung, I do want to think about other mechanisms like kerberos18:52
gyeekerberos is on a lot of folks mind18:52
morganfainbergplease propose specs to the backlog for things you'd like to see in liberty.18:52
stevemari don't think domain config improvements counts as a spec?18:53
marekdgyee: some bits in the mapping engine were missing to make it happen, remember which ones?18:53
morganfainbergstevemar, it's a spec, API impacting, but not one of the 5 features18:53
morganfainbergstevemar, it's a need to make domain-sql "stable"18:53
gyeemarekd, I think we're all good18:53
bknudsonwhat are the expectations for approving for backlog? is it the same for approving for L?18:53
gyeethe mapping has all we needed18:53
stevemarmorganfainberg, ah okay18:53
morganfainbergbknudson, approved to backlog is "good idea and we want it"18:53
bknudsonor do we not need all the details for a backlog spec?18:53
morganfainbergbknudson, approved to L is "full spec, all details hashed out"18:53
morganfainbergbknudson, backlog means anyone can pick it up and run with it18:54
stevemarmorganfainberg, we should sub-divide that list to 'new features' vs 'minor features' ... maybe18:54
morganfainbergbknudson, we know we like the idea.18:54
morganfainbergstevemar, sounds good, most "minor" things are tagged in the etherpad with (minor)18:54
stevemarso they are...18:54
morganfainbergbknudson, but it might need more fleshing out before we approve for a specific release.18:54
stevemardual scoped tokens?18:54
stevemarwhats that about?18:54
morganfainbergbknudson, example is the one i just proposed, it has a TBD for the API spec.18:54
bknudsonok, I'll use those criteria.18:55
morganfainbergstevemar, domain+project = same thing18:55
gyeestevemar, dual scope?18:55
stevemarhmph, okay...18:55
jamielennoxcan we not call that dual-scoped18:55
morganfainbergbknudson, my goal with the backlog is to flush out bad ideas, and have a store of good ideas for when people say "hey i want to contribute what can i work on"18:55
stevemarsounds like it was going to be scoped to two projects or some nonsense18:55
morganfainbergjamielennox, yeah dual-scope is bad name18:56
bknudsonCan I scope one token to 2 keystones?18:56
stevemarbknudson, you're welcome to try18:56
gyeebknudson, yes, its called federation18:56
stevemarreseller, tokenless auth, dynamic policy, already at 3/5 major new features18:57
morganfainbergbknudson, with fernet, possible18:57
marekdwhat's about tokenless auth?18:57
marekdsounds kickass'y18:57
morganfainbergbknudson, but the assignment data would need to be synchronised18:57
gyeemarekd, kickassess'y18:57
ayoungmarekd, its for servcie users, so they don't need to go, get a token, and then perform the operation.  Its dumb to get a token to validate a token.18:57
morganfainbergayoung, also for getting a token i would support18:58
gyeeayoung, we can do that for horizon too, in theory18:58
morganfainbergayoung, generally supporting client-certs or alternatives for any keystone action.18:58
ayoungHorizon shouldn't need it.  But no reason to limit who can use it18:58
morganfainbergayoung, but i don't want to make middleware have to figure all that out for a user.18:58
stevemarmarekd, it was bumped from L the spec is avail in backlog18:58
stevemarMFA / trusted devices would be cool18:58
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stevemarany last remarks?18:59
bknudsontrusted devices for what?18:59
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stevemarbknudson, things to provide you pin numbers for MFA18:59
bknudsonshould be using barbican.18:59
morganfainbergbknudson, "trusted browser" don't ask me for MFA token again for 30mins18:59
stevemari assume18:59
morganfainbergstevemar, time19:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr 21 19:00:08 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-04-21-18.02.html19:00
stevemarthanks y'all!19:00
morganfainbergreviewing no-spec BPs in -keystone now.19:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-04-21-18.02.txt19:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-04-21-18.02.log.html19:00
stevemarinfra team, it's all yours19:00
fungithanks stevemar!19:00
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bknudsoninfra team is going to do something awesome again.19:00
stevemarbknudson, obvs19:00
fungijeblair: are you chairing, lurking or missing?|19:01
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jeblairfungi: why don't you chair?19:01
fungion it19:01
jeblairi can particpate though19:01
fungi#startmeeting infra19:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr 21 19:01:39 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:01
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fungi#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting19:02
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fungi#topic Actions from last meeting19:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:02
fungijeblair send announcement for april 17 2200 utc 2-hour outage for renames and utf8 conversion19:02
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fungi#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-April/061489.html19:03
fungithat's done and done19:03
fungijeblair send announcement for may 9 1600 utc 4-hour outage for 2.10 upgrade19:03
fungi#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-April/061490.html19:03
fungialso announced19:03
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fungithat's it for previous action items19:03
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fungi#topic Priority Efforts19:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
fungiwe skipped these last time, but we also have a few new topics after so let's keep these brief if we can19:04
jeblairi think there were a few questions but no substantial issues raised as a result of the upgrade announcment19:04
fungi#topic Priority Efforts (Swift logs)19:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Swift logs) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:04
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fungido we have any next steps on this that need attention/highlighting?19:04
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clarkbyes, the stack from jhesketh on os-loganalyze to allow configurable file passthrough from swift is up for review19:05
clarkbshould have topic set to enable_swift too19:05
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clarkbI am happy to babysit those if people want to +2 iwthout approving19:05
anteayaclarkb: thanks19:05
clarkbbut do ping me if you do that so I know they are ready for me19:05
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:enable_swift,n,z19:05
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fungianything else there?19:06
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fungi#topic Priority Efforts (Nodepool DIB)19:06
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Nodepool DIB) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:06
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clarkbfungi: I approved the bindep fallback update yesterday19:06
clarkbso hopefully today's images have the latest fallback19:07
clarkbonce thats in we can start moving forward on using bindep right? the changes you wanted in bindep itself have merged?19:07
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fungiahh, yep saw that. i'm doing some final testing with that now before i put the jobs and venv for it in19:07
greghaynesthe dib patches are starting to merge for nodepool dib to consolodate our images19:07
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fungii've seen more stacks of shade changes flying by. are those all nodepool/dib-related?19:07
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clarkbfungi: no I think the majority of them are not dib related19:07
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clarkbfungi: they add features like volume support and stuff which is useful for shade but not specific to nodepool's need for dib images19:08
greghayneswell we need shafe to do rax, so kind of related?19:08
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fungialso the change to add a "centos-6" worker to nodepool merged, and we added a 0.5tb cinder volume to the nodepool server to accomodate a larger dib cache and image set19:08
clarkbfungi: thank you for doing that19:08
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SpamapSclarkb: errrm.. many of them are test coverage19:08
fungiwell, it needed doing19:08
jeblairfungi: are we okay on cinder quota?19:08
fungijeblair: probably? i honestly didn't check our quota but i didn't get an error19:09
fungii should have a peek at it later19:09
SpamapSclarkb: test coverage that will necessarily precede the migration to no-more-clientlib objects.19:09
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fungi#action fungi check our cinder quota in rax-dfw19:09
clarkbI seem to recall there was a volume cleanup around when afs went in19:09
fungianything else on the nodepool/dib front?19:10
fungi#topic Priority Efforts (Migration to Zanata)19:10
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Migration to Zanata) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:10
fungipleia2: cinerama: what's the good news?19:10
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pleia2I was able to log in as an admin and make a project, so yay openstackid working + my admin username19:11
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cineramahi there. so we have a working translate-dev server and the next step is to get the client-side jenkins stuff ported over19:11
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cineramai think that is about it19:12
pleia2I need to spend some time going through the spec and reprioritizing some of our tasks19:12
clarkbyou can make projects without admin rights too19:12
pleia2s/and/and spend some time19:12
clarkbwhich may or may not be a problem19:12
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cineramayep. we need to work that out19:12
jeblairyeah, i think at some point we need to sync up on how we want project creation to work there19:12
pleia2I also have an admin section, but that is a something we should look at19:12
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jeblairprobably should just follow up in channel on that for starters19:13
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pleia2it's a bit tedious doing it via transifex (we need to work directly with their help staff), but I don't think we want everyone to be able to create things19:13
pleia2yeah, out of meeting is fine for this discussion19:13
fungisounds like great progress!19:13
pleia2things are moving along though, huge thanks for cinerama for picking this up while I've been traveling (but I'm home now for a while!)19:14
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* anteaya applauds cinerama19:14
cineramaanteaya: thanks *blush*19:14
fungiyes, thank you!19:15
pleia2that's all for now :)19:15
fungi#topic Priority Efforts (Downstream Puppet)19:15
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Downstream Puppet) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:15
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anteayaasselin_ has been recruiting help19:15
fungii think all of the metadata changes asselin_ put in yesterday have merged now19:15
anteayaI don't know if he is here right now19:15
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pleia2fungi: yep, last I checked they were at least all approved, aiming for merging19:16
fungiand yes, there was a call for participants on the ml19:16
fungithe thread seems to be picking up steam19:16
jeblairi'm meeting with gozer folks from hp that are interested in particpating too19:16
asselin_yes, recruiting, and a few people are interested. I got some private e-mails too19:16
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fungi#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-April/061929.html19:16
asselin_fbo submitted a patch to refactor zuul....nice to see ;)19:16
anteaya#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/175970/19:17
anteayaif we could get some core reviews on that to ensure asselin_ and I have been giving fbo the correct direction that would be great19:17
fungipleia2 seems to have just approved the last awaiting metadata change as we discussed this19:17
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fungiso we should be very close to being able to start uploading modules to the forge now?19:18
pleia2fungi: hah, yeah, I was waiting for jenkins19:18
anteayaI have a request into ttx to get asselin_ a table at summit to work on it there19:18
anteayalooking like Tuesday afternoon19:18
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asselin_It would be good to get the log server one merged (on the openstackci side) https://review.openstack.org/#/c/167425/19:18
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jeblairanteaya: what does a teable at summit mean?19:19
anteayajeblair: a room with a table for work to happen19:19
asselin_(just rebased on metadata change)19:19
jeblairanteaya: are those not allocated to projects?19:19
anteayattx has a few available19:19
anteayabut at poor times, tuesday end of day for example19:19
fungioh, a session slot in a workroom vs a fishbowl19:20
anteayamore work less talk19:20
jeblairyeah, i just thought infra had some of those19:20
anteayajeblair: we do, I'm not sure what you have planned though19:20
anteayaso I didn't offer one of ours19:20
fungiwhich should probably have been a separate meeting topic--we need to put together a list of what we want to use our allotted rooms/times to discuss or work on19:21
fungimore of a psa i guess19:21
anteayasorry to derail19:21
jeblairright, well, i think it would be rather near the top of the list19:21
fungiprobably shouldn't spend the meeting putting it together19:21
jeblairof things infra would want to work on19:21
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asselin_jeblair, +119:22
fungii can start an infra ml thread or an etherpad or something to start collecting ideas for our summit sessions, if that will help19:22
anteayajeblair: whatever you want to have happen is fine with me, just didn't know what that was19:22
anteayaand wanted asselin_ a chance to get some new help on it19:22
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jeblairfungi: i'll take care of it19:23
fungiokay, great!19:23
krtaylorI have offered the cross-project third party session for this discussion, but if we want to do it in an infra session even better19:23
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fungianything else downstream puppet wise we need to cover today?19:24
asselin_not from me19:24
jeblairkrtaylor: thanks -- it feels less like a cross-project thing to me.  i'll see what we have available though and chat with you and asselin_ about it19:24
krtaylorjeblair, I agree and that works for me19:25
fungi#topic Priority Efforts (Askbot migration)19:25
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Askbot migration) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:25
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fungimrmartin has been working on the staging/dev server deployment solution, we talked through it some earlier today19:25
pleia2thanks to jeblair for catching the backups issue, I just confirmed now that it's working19:26
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mrmartinI'm here19:26
clarkbwe still have that problem with the caching of the solr stuff in /opt but mrmartin wrote an upstream puppet patch to address that19:26
clarkbso hopefully that gets in then we can fix that remaining issue19:26
fungioh, and we had redis running out of memory19:26
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mrmartinfungi: again?19:27
fungithat's solved thanks to mrmartin spotting something we needed to add to the config19:27
fungimrmartin: no, it's been fine since that last config update19:27
mrmartinoh ok.19:27
mrmartinI need an approval on theme pinning patch, because Evgeny cannot publish changes19:27
fungi#link http://cacti.openstack.org/cacti/graph.php?action=view&local_graph_id=2544&rra_id=all19:27
mrmartinwithout braking production ask.o.o19:28
clarkbmrmartin: have a link for that?19:28
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/17106619:28
fungijhesketh: ^ there are replies to you in that review19:29
mrmartinanyway, nibalizer have an approval right on vamsee/puppet-solr repository, so the good news that he can help us to accept the required upstream pull request19:29
mrmartinso we can close the /tmp solr warning issue19:30
fungiare things still complicated or in need of coordinating at this point that it needs to remain a priority effort meeting topic? we can leave it on the agenda for one more week if anyone wants and revisit19:30
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fungiotherwise i'll clear it off after the meeting wraps up today19:30
mrmartineverything is ok, I guess we can go on with the staging19:31
mrmartinbut it'll take a time19:31
mrmartinI'll write a spec for that19:31
mrmartinif required19:31
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jeblairmrmartin: is it substantially different than prod?19:31
clarkbI don't think we need a spec for that19:31
Rockygquestion on ask.o.o graph 5min avg:  How can Current be 2.03g and maximum 1.90G?19:31
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fungiokay, if you think it's complex enough to warrant a spec feel free, but i wouldn't worry about it unless it's going to need a lot of help (beyond just spinning up a server and testing)19:31
mrmartinjeblair, yes because, we need to rewrite the update mechanism19:32
Rockygthat used mem19:32
clarkbit should be pretty similar to what we have done for prod but deploy latest all the things19:32
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jeblairmrmartin: if it's what clarkb says, i think we can probably just cover that in review19:32
mrmartinthe environment is the same, the deployment model is a bit different, because we need to deploy the askbot-devel from a remote upstream github repo19:32
mrmartinwe had a discussion about this today morning19:32
clarkbmrmartin: right but isn't that as simple as changing version => x.y.z to version => latest19:33
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clarkbmrmartin: we should be able to do that in a straightforward manner19:33
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jeblairmrmartin: yeah, skip the spec then and just start with a change to add the server19:33
fungiRockyg: good eye... i'm going to guess we've got something setting maximum to the average value there for some reason19:33
mrmartinI hope the patch will land this week, but it requires some careful review19:33
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mrmartinso that's all related to askbot19:34
mrmartinbasically the prod is working well19:34
fungithanks mrmartin!19:34
clarkbmrmartin: awesome great work there19:34
fungi#topic Priority Efforts (Upgrading Gerrit Saturday May 9, 2015)19:35
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Upgrading Gerrit Saturday May 9, 2015) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:35
fungiany new developments we need to be mindful of here?19:35
zaronothing much to say here.19:35
clarkbI have a question related to this19:35
anteayaI'll just note the agenda says 2.9 and I think we agreed last week to 2.1019:35
clarkbjeblair: do we want to put your connection debugging change atop 2.10.3 just in case we end up needing it?19:35
fungianteaya: right, i simply dropped the version number in the meeting topic for that reason19:35
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jeblairclarkb: i don't think it would hurt, but i do not know the status of the bouncy castle war problem19:36
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anteayafungi: okay19:36
jeblairclarkb: (however, i don't think that's related to my change, so i'm not sure that matters)19:36
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zarofungi syas he was going to try to manually reploy?19:36
zaroat slow time19:36
fungizaro was looking at it yesterday but couldn't reproduce with a similar config and that warfile19:36
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jeblairclarkb: it _does_ suggest that we should make very sure we have a working 2.10 deployed on -dev and that's what we use for the upgrade :)19:36
clarkbjeblair: ++19:37
fungiso, yeah, i need to try again and see if i can collect some additional state details19:37
jeblaircause right now the status of that seems like "voodoo build bug"19:37
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fungiit may be a problem with the earfile library unpacking done by the gerrit manifet19:37
fungier, puppet manifest19:38
zaroi thought about trying to repro on review-dev but didn't want to go thru trouble of reverting to 2.8 to validate19:38
zarounless yous guys think it's worth it19:38
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jeblairzaro: could probably repro on a throwaway personal server, right?19:38
zarojeblair: requires contact store to be enabled to hit that lib.19:39
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fungizaro: but you said you tested again with that turned on, right?19:39
zarojeblair: i tried that on my VM but gerrit got stuck on startup. didn't even make it to the point where it would fail19:39
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jeblairhrm.  we should probably offline this and move on :/19:40
fungiahh, yep. veering well off-topic19:40
fungibut we'll continue later in the infra channel19:40
fungidoing the next topics slightly out of order because this one's sort of time-sensitive...19:41
fungi#topic Outreachy: we have a prospective intern candidate but need a volunteer mentor (vkmc)19:41
*** openstack changes topic to "Outreachy: we have a prospective intern candidate but need a volunteer mentor (vkmc) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:41
pleia2someone who wants to work on infra?19:41
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fungi#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Mentors19:41
fungiyes, there's someone who wants to do infra work!19:41
fungivkmc was going to try to make the meeting i thought, but perhaps she was not able19:42
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fungii have some info from reed that confirms we do though19:42
clarkbI would be happ to help but ETWINS19:42
mordredclarkb: that'll teach you19:42
anteayashe isn't in this channel I just pinged her in #openstack-opw19:42
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pleia2I can help this time around, but I can't be a primary mentor19:42
vkmchi o/19:42
fungiand that vkmc contacted the people listed on the mentors sign-up sheet (including jhesketh and nibalizer) but that they were not able to assist after all so we need some other volunteers19:42
pleia2welcome vkmc19:42
anteayathere she is19:42
vkmcthanks :)19:43
vkmcthanks for bringing this topic up in the weekly meeting, I appreciate this19:43
fungivkmc: oops! sorry, started without you19:43
anteayavkmc: so far we are looking at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Mentors19:43
vkmcfungi, no worries!19:43
vkmcanteaya, cool19:43
fungithe candidate is in american pacific standard timezone, right? so volunteers in that tz would probably be the best fit19:44
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vkmcwell, my main concern here is that whereas I got really good comments from this applicant, I'd really like that the willing to be mentor know them as well19:44
vkmcand make a project plan for the internship19:44
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vkmcthe selected applicants announcement is this Friday19:45
fungirighth, we'd need to pick a couple of moderate-complexity tasks which don't require a lot of ramp-up learning curve19:45
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fungiand what's the start and stop date for interns and rough number of hours per week?19:45
vkmcinterested mentors please contact me and I'll give further details about the applicant background and the program19:46
pleia2as a team, could we brainstorm some projects? I don't mind being a go-to for helping, but I'm winding down another mentorship projects (no outreachy) where I had to do way too much ground work19:46
vkmcsure, the internships starts on May 25 and ends on August 2519:46
anteaya40 hours a week when I did it, the candidate is not required to have any kind of programing ops experience (unless that has changed)19:46
pleia2^^ that's what I fear19:47
vkmcand yeah, as anteaya mentioned, 40 hours per week19:47
fungiin this case it seems like the candidate probably has a fair amount of programming experience though19:47
vkmcfor the intern19:47
anteayaI'm all for bringing in new people, but I personally don't have time to be the primary mentor though I can offer support as a tertery mentor19:47
jeblairpleia2: i like your suggestion about brainstorming topics19:48
pleia2clarkb, anteaya - care to mentor as a trio? (and vkmc is that ok?)19:48
vkmcit is yes :)19:48
anteayaoh I wouldn't go that far19:49
clarkbso why don't we brainstorm topics in -infra post meeting then we can go from there?19:49
anteayasorry but I still am trying to find the work burnout balance19:49
anteayaand things don't go well for me if I can't find it19:49
pleia2clarkb: wfm19:49
fungisounds great19:49
anteayatrying to be supportive here19:49
pleia2anteaya: totally understand19:49
fungithanks vkmc we'll try to get up with you in a couple days19:49
fungiif that works19:49
anteayavkmc: thanks for joining the meeting19:49
vkmcsure, it sounds good to me19:50
vkmcfeel free to reach me in any time19:50
fungi#topic Spec proposal - Integration tests for System-config Openstack_project using containers (fbo)19:50
*** openstack changes topic to "Spec proposal - Integration tests for System-config Openstack_project using containers (fbo) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:50
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/17283319:50
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fungidiscussion of this can probably happen in that review19:50
fungifor the sake of time19:50
fungi#topic Neutron-lib proposal (dougwig, mestery)19:50
*** openstack changes topic to "Neutron-lib proposal (dougwig, mestery) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:50
dougwighi there19:51
dougwigit was mentioned that we should bring up an upcoming split of some library stuff out of neutron here.  proposal:19:51
dougwigit's not final or certain yet, and I also wanted to point out that it's not a "split" with history. there is so much refactor involved, it'll almost certainly be just a repo create and move forward with regular gerrit reviews.19:51
dougwigactual repo creation WIP is here:19:51
dougwigbringing it up here to see if there are any concerns or things that we need to do to make life easier all around.19:51
fungido either of you have a quick summary?19:51
mesterydougwig does I think :)19:51
jeblairi consider clarkb and nibalizer key particpants in the testing spec review19:51
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/17495219:51
fungijeblair: i would agree19:51
clarkbya I can review it today19:51
anteayamostly I thought this should have infra eyes to ensure the steps to split are ones we support19:51
mordredmestery, dougwig: this is making a lib out of the guts of neutron I'm guessing?19:52
anteayatrying to avoid the scenario last time with the *-aas splits19:52
dougwigdid i run afoul of the rate limiter?19:52
mesterymordred: ++19:52
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/17183619:52
dougwigit was mentioned that we should bring up an upcoming split of some library stuff out of neutron here.  proposal:19:52
jeblairdougwig: no we're just digesting :)19:52
mesteryYes, what dougwig said19:52
dougwigoh, ok.  :)19:52
mordreddougwig, mestery: seems fine to me19:52
mesterymordred: Cool, we just wanted to bring this up so infra was aware.19:52
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clarkbI'm confused ut I Think I opened the wrong change19:53
clarkbfungi: you want to undo that and link the other change19:53
openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0xa926710>19:53
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fungidougwig: have a link to the right change for your proposal?19:53
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dougwigspec and wip for project-config19:54
mesterynice work dougwig :)19:54
anteayadougwig: you aren't linking to the spec19:54
fungi171836 is "Non-json body on POST 500's"19:54
fungiis that the right one?19:54
clarkbif it is then I am really confused19:54
anteayano it isn't19:54
dougwigsigh, sorry.  did i mentioned that i ran out of red bull yesterday?19:54
dougwiglet's try:19:54
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/15473619:55
fungithanks, that makes more sense ;_19:55
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fungicool, so probably not something we have time to get too deep into discussing in the meeting, but those reviews look like a good place to go deeper19:55
mesteryfungi: Yes, comments very welcome there! Thanks!19:55
fungithanks for bringing it to our attention!19:55
dougwigplease do.  thanks.19:55
anteayamostly to ensure if they follow these steps we don't have to dig them out of a hole19:56
fungi#topic Renaming stackforge/mistral to openstack/mistral (rakhmerov)19:56
anteayadougwig mestery thank you19:56
*** openstack changes topic to "Renaming stackforge/mistral to openstack/mistral (rakhmerov) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:56
mesterythanks fungi anteaya ! :)19:56
dougwiganteaya: it is designed to avoid the previous holes.  we hope.19:56
fungirakhmerov: get up with us in the infra channel on the details for how to do this19:56
fungiit doesn't really need meeting time devoted to it though19:56
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fungi#topic Tag all the things! (fungi)19:56
jeblairand i think we decided to schedule further renames post-summit19:56
*** openstack changes topic to "Tag all the things! (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:56
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jeblairor at least post-release19:56
anteayajeblair: ++19:57
fungijust a reminder we wanted a nodepool tag for hashar's packaging19:57
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clarkband a zuul tag for zuul cloner19:57
fungii'm planning to tag bindep in the next day or so19:57
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fungiahh, yes, zuul19:57
fungiand we're overdue to do another git-review release19:57
fungianything else we should be planning to tag rsn?19:58
anteayazuul was all I had19:58
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fungiokay, in that case...19:58
fungi#topic Open discussion19:58
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)"19:58
fungii give you one minute of open discussion!19:59
jeblairfungi: nicely done! :)19:59
clarkbI would like to suggest turning hpcloud back off, looking at status graphs we have better long term throughput on rax alone19:59
tchaypoGosh, the weather has been good lately19:59
pleia2do we have an etherpad for summit brainstorming?19:59
clarkbbasically hpcloud starts ok but seems to get worse over time19:59
ttxI need to finalize the connection to give you those extra VMs19:59
fungiclarkb: eek, yeah it looks sort of unhappy19:59
jeblairclarkb: yeah, i think the cleanup process may not be far enough along?19:59
ttx(with OVH)19:59
anteayapleia2: not yet, jeblair wants to take care of that19:59
clarkbjeblair: ya, and we are probably just piling more onto it as we go19:59
pleia2anteaya: thanks19:59
jeblairttx: yeah, mordred was looking at going a day early for that (so meet on tuesday)20:00
ttxjeblair: who should serve as a contact on your side ? you ?20:00
fungiclarkb: and yeah, our workers line dropped with hpcloud under load, compared to without hpcloud at all20:00
jeblairttx: if that fails, i can stay a day later and meet (so following monday)20:00
ttxjeblair: ideally we'd move before, while the topic is hot20:00
fungiworkers/running anyway20:00
hasharfungi: with some new tags to follow for Zuul.  There is a few patches for Zuul I am dieing to see merged in before the grand refactoring of v3 :D20:00
jeblairttx: agreed -- plan A is mordred on tuesday20:00
anteayado we still need the meeting open?20:00
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fungihashar: thanks for the reminder. yes we normally check outstanding reviews before releasing20:00
fungiokay, we're over time20:01
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fungithanks everybody!20:01
jeblairttx: probably best to cc both of us20:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr 21 20:01:12 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-04-21-19.01.html20:01
ttxjeblair: +120:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-04-21-19.01.txt20:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-04-21-19.01.log.html20:01
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ttxAnyone here for the TC meeting ?20:01
fungisorry ttx: i owe you one minute20:01
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jeblairttx: o/20:01
sdaguefungi: he'll convert that into drinks at the summit :)20:01
ttxat the current EU/USD exchange rate20:02
jeblairunited states drink?20:02
ttxrussellb, jgriffith, annegentle, mikal, mordred, devananda, vishy, markmcclain, jaypipes, dhellmann : around ?20:02
fungii'll have to pay him in molson20:02
jeblairfungi: good point20:02
ttxalright quorum20:03
ttx#startmeeting tc20:03
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr 21 20:03:20 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"20:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'20:03
ttxOur agenda for today:20:03
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee20:03
ttx#topic Adding MagnetoDB to OpenStack20:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Adding MagnetoDB to OpenStack (Meeting topic: tc)"20:03
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/17199520:03
ttxAs far as the project scope goes, I think it is consistent with the OpenStack Mission20:04
ttxMy only gripe would be about the very low [MagnetoDB] activity on the -dev ML, and what that actually meant20:04
* isviridov is here iif any questions o smth20:04
ttxIs it that there is nothing to discuss ? that the project is dead ? or that the discussions happen elsewhere ?20:04
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ttxI hope it is the former :)20:05
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devanandaas much as I dont understand the purpose of this yet, and would like to dig into the use cases this is trying to solve, that's not really what inclusion is about20:06
jgriffithttx: not a TON of activity in github, or number of contributors20:06
dhellmannthe diversity of affiliations for contributors looks pretty low20:06
isviridovttx, we are using IRC chat mostly, and right now and development is slowed down at thing moment20:06
ttxbecause I'd rather not have a dead or secret project in the tent20:06
dougwigttx: http://stackalytics.com/?project_type=all&module=magnetodb-group20:06
dougwigeh, jinx.20:06
ttxdoug wins20:06
dhellmannttx: what did we decide about trademark usage?20:06
dhellmannI mean, "magneto" might be an issue, but do we care about that before bringing it into the tent?20:07
sdague+1, I guess my only question is where this sits relative to swift, and glance as artifact repo. Which is probably a question others would have, so would be nice for the team to answer that in a README20:07
ttxwe can fix it after the fact, I think20:07
sdaguebut I'm +1 regardless20:07
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mordredI'm +1 - I can see no reason to say no20:08
mikalsdague: artifacts in those other two are immuatable, but not in magneto (I believe)20:08
mordredI don't need a key-value-as-a-service myself, but someone else might20:08
ttxisviridov: "development slowed down -- because you solved the hard problems ? Or beacsue there is lack of interest ?20:08
ttxmordred: I know of some people who do20:08
dhellmannI wonder if they're also optimizing for smaller artifacts?20:08
mordredttx: neat - I'd like to help facilitate them caring20:09
russellbo/  sorry20:09
jgriffithSo 3 reviews in 30 days?20:09
jeblairshould the info about scope vis-a-vis glance/swift make it into projects.yaml so that it can help with project navigation when that's all done?20:09
mikalmordred: depending on their approach to atomic writes, such a thing could be a useful distributed locking mechanism20:09
mordredmikal: sure - but I don't want one of those either20:09
jgriffithsuppose 60 looks *better*20:09
ttxRight, my only fear is that it's a bit inactive, and we'll see soon enough what we need to do with dead projects20:09
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mordredttx: I would like to avoid moving them to openstack/ and then moving them to openstack-attic the next week20:10
isviridovttx pne of major player - Symantec - decreased the priority, but planned to continue work actively starting May20:10
sdaguemikal: lets not try to make things into other things though, distributed locking is a hard problem, and deserves it's own solution if someone is going down that space20:10
dhellmannjgriffith: most of the activity seems to have slowed down near the end of february20:10
mordredisviridov: ah - good. that's good to hear20:10
jgriffithso I'm +1, because it's not our charter to really judge... but the lack of diversity and activity is kinda troubling for me20:10
jgriffithdhellmann: yeah, noticing the curve20:11
anteayahttps://github.com/stackforge/magnetodb/graphs/commit-activity 5 commiters in 201520:11
jgriffithLooks like Dimitry had other things to work on20:11
ttxsdague, mikal, it's mostly Cassandra under the hood20:11
dhellmannso my only hesitation is the relative lack of activity, but it sounds like that's likely to improve20:11
ttxbut yeah, they have been around at past design summits alright, which is pretty much a definition of "one of us"20:12
dhellmannok, that's a good data point20:12
sdagueI suspect that we're going to have a long tail of projects with low activity20:12
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jgriffithwelcome to big tent20:12
ttxI guess we can address the question of dead or too-inactive-to-be-good projects *after* having given them a chance to shine.20:13
ttxso I'm +120:13
mordred++ well said20:13
dhellmannsdague: sure, but I'd be happier with a steady or periodic rate than random spurts20:13
sdagueyeh, we're going to have to handle "we think it's ddea"20:13
sdaguesome where down the road20:13
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ttxsdague: I think we should at least give them one or two cycles in tent before saying they won't ever evolve into something good20:14
jeblairi require a video of sdague as max headroom20:14
sdaguejeblair: :)20:14
sdaguettx: yeh, I'm fine with that20:14
ttxok, it has enough votes to pass now20:14
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sdaguerealistically a lot of the various git repos under bigger efforts like infra, oslo, qa are very fit / spurt20:14
ttxGiving 30 more seconds to record votes for posterity20:14
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annegentlejust joined, sorry I'm late20:15
ttxquick quick20:15
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jgriffithJust for clarity during recording: +120:15
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* mestery lurks20:16
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ttxand approved even20:16
ttxisviridov: welcome to openstack20:16
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isviridovThank you20:16
ttx#topic Adding the Puppet modules to OpenStack20:17
*** openstack changes topic to "Adding the Puppet modules to OpenStack (Meeting topic: tc)"20:17
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ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/17211220:17
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EmilienMttx: o/20:17
ttxThe main issue here seems to be about project naming20:17
ttxOtherwise it sounds like creating that project will lead to further collaboration around the same set of repos20:17
EmilienMSo the naming story is: Puppetlabs lawyers think that using "Puppet Modules" is okay but they'll want to set up some kind of license agreement. So we are waiting until next week to see how this issue will be solved otherwise, if we can't use "Puppet", we will use "Marioneta" (we voted, see link).20:17
EmilienM#link http://civs.cs.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/results.pl?id=E_783794d78bcd45ad20:17
ttxwhich is basically as good as it gets in my book20:17
jeblairi'm so strongly +1 on this.  this is the example i use when i talk about why the big tent is a good thing.  :)20:17
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mordredvery much +120:18
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ttxI'd porefer the "community" not to sign a license agreement for name usage20:18
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mordredclarifying question ...20:18
jbrycettx: i sign things20:19
mordredis the issue with the names of the repos?20:19
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mordredor with the human name of the project?20:19
crinklethe issue is with the human name20:19
ttxbut then "marioneta" is a bit less likely to attract all puppeters ever20:19
devanandaalso very much +1 on including puppet in the big tent!20:19
mordredyeah. I think this is a very dangerous area, tbh20:19
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mordredbut this is probably not the right place to discuss taht20:20
claytonChef is going to have the same issue20:20
jeblairi feel like we may have opened a can of worms with the trademark thing.  there are so many 'puppet-foo' things in the community and i don't think anyone thinks they infringe.  but we asked... so we got an answer.  :/20:20
ttxjbryce: you feel good signing a name usage agreement with Puppet Labs ?20:20
anteayaare we discussing all deployment tools, as chef has a patch up20:20
mordredjeblair: ++20:20
anteayaas clayton says20:20
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jbrycettx: if that’s what it takes to have a clear name for the project, yes20:20
sdagueanteaya: that's scheduled for a later meeting20:20
ttxI think we can approve / reject the application without making the final call on name20:20
anteayasdague: so deployment tools one at a time?20:20
jbrycettx: i don’t know if i’d say “feel good” but i’d say “willing to” = )20:20
mordredI would argue that not being able to call modules written for puppet "puppet modules" because of trademark issues is a pretty big issue that the fine folks are puppetlabs should figure out20:21
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sdagueanteaya: this is a very specific application20:21
jbryceand i wouldn’t argue with you20:21
ttxthe question is more, should we shoot for "Puppet OpenStack" and fall back on Marioneta, or just pick Marioneta20:21
jeblairanteaya: tc meeting topics one at a time according to the rules for the agenda20:21
agentle_I'm a fan of calling it what it is20:21
mordredttx: how about "OpenStack  Modules for Puppet"20:21
jgriffithmordred: +120:21
EmilienMttx: can we wait a bit to choose a name? Puppetlabs asked me to wait some days20:21
mordredttx: which is a completely descriptive statement20:21
mordredand does not imply that it is branded20:21
sdagueEmilienM: yeh, I think it's fine if we patch in the name later20:21
agentle_even though I asked the tm question, it's the writer in me for both needs20:22
dhellmannlet's just take the name as it is, and change it later20:22
crinklethe name puppet labs is considering is "Puppet Modules" with the implied Openstack before it20:22
devanandaI'd prefer having "puppet" somewhere in our name, because that's what it is20:22
devanandamordred: ++20:22
mordredcrinkle: that also works for me20:22
jbrycemordred: is that accurate or is it the other way around?20:22
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mordredjbryce: yes - Puppet Modules for OpenStack is more accurate20:22
sdagueso... how about we taking the naming conversation offline :)20:22
jeblairjbryce, mordred: you're both right? :)20:22
agentle_jbryce: I think mordred is playing with the words :)20:22
sdagueand focus on the content20:22
mordredjbryce: but both could be accurate20:22
jeblairright you both are20:22
ttxOK, naming can be solved in parallel20:22
EmilienMsdague: +1, thx20:22
mordredsdague: I am +10000000 on the application20:22
agentle_I think we want these contributors to make OpenStack better20:23
jbrycebefore we go, is there someone over there that we at the foundation should talk to?20:23
mordredthe naming is the only thing worth discussing :)20:23
ttxquestions on the application itself ?20:23
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sdaguemordred: good, so I'd say we approve the content, and patch the name in after EmilienM and possibly jbryce figure out what's viable20:23
crinklejbryce: I can put you in contact with out lawyer20:23
mordredsdague: ++20:23
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ttxwe are at 8 yes, so enough to pass20:23
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sdagueI trust them to come up with something reasonable20:23
ttxjbryce likes talking to lawyers20:23
devanandattx: actually, one question20:23
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jbrycecrinkle: thanks - jonathan@openstack.org20:23
mordredjeblair, fungi: we're going to want to use that playbook for that rename I think :)20:24
jeblairmordred: yep20:24
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jbrycettx: i just got off the phone with one!20:24
ttxdevananda: ask and you shall get answers20:24
devanandattx: a while back I had the idea that we put allthe deployment things (puppet, chef, etc) into a separate hyphenated namespace20:24
devanandalike openstack-dev, openstack-infra20:24
agentle_jbryce: me too!20:24
jeblairfyi, infra is planning on deferring git repo renames until after the release20:24
fungiyeah, that's going to be a lot of repos20:24
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russellbpatch is in merge conflict now20:24
ttxdevananda: I think that's a bit orthogonal to the issue20:24
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ttxjeblair: ^ opinion on that ?20:25
mordreddevananda: what woudl be the problem to solve with doing that?20:25
SpamapSHas "Marioneta" cleared Trademarks as well? Didn't mcollective come from a company PuppetLabs acquired called Marrionette labs?20:25
jeblairdevananda: i'd really like to move everything into openstack/20:25
russellbbut i guess that's something that can be fixed and approved based on previous votes20:25
devanandamordred: not sure. this idea was before the big tent. there may be no problem now20:25
devanandajust bringing it up to be sure20:25
mordreddevananda: nod20:25
russellbjeblair: i'm getting to that point20:25
anteayafuel has 32 repos20:25
devanandaif we want openstack/puppet-* and openstack/chef-* and ...20:25
sdaguettx: I just rebased20:25
devanandathen that's great20:25
ttxsdague: yay20:25
sdagueso, there was a merge conflict on - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/172112/20:25
jeblairdevananda: i believe that correctly signals what we're doing20:26
ttxplease all revote20:26
sdaguewith the last one landing20:26
sdagueplease revote20:26
mordreddevananda: I think it's not a problem ... we COULD have openstack/puppet/nova if we wanted - but our reliance on non-free software like github means we're stuck with their limitations20:26
ttxdamn, owned by russell20:26
* russellb flexes20:26
mordredthere is literally nothing in git, gerrit or any of the rest of our tools which makes a single-directory-deep namespacing structure special - other than our outbound read-only replication stream20:27
mordredjust while we're on the topic :)20:27
sdaguemordred: go revote :)20:27
mordredsdague: going20:27
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sdaguethough we're at 7 already20:27
ttxok, 30 more seconds20:27
jeblairyeah, a lot of the awkwardness around this comes from that limitation20:27
devanandaok. if there's no benefit to infra for creating a separate pool for config management tools (eg, openstack-config/puppet-* or something) then I'm fine with the current namespace proposal20:27
mordreddevananda: nope. no help to us!20:28
devanandamordred: my +1 stands then :)20:28
mordreddevananda: but thanks for thinking of us - /me feels loved20:28
ttxalright, win20:28
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agentle_devananda: mordred: jeblair: when will it be easier to search for reviews in gerrit though?20:28
ttxcrinkle, EmilienM: wec20:28
EmilienMthanks, we will come-up with a name very soon :-)20:28
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agentle_thanks EmilienM! Great due diligence shown.20:29
ttx#topic Let projects add repos without prior-approval20:29
*** openstack changes topic to "Let projects add repos without prior-approval (Meeting topic: tc)"20:29
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/17346520:29
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jeblairagentle_: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:%255Estackforge/puppet-.*,n,z20:29
ttxI think this one is a welcome clarification20:29
ttxPosted a nit on "PTL" expansion since we are phasing out usage of "Technical" there20:29
agentle_jeblair: yay regex :)20:29
jeblairagentle_: you can regex search project names, so there's an easy search for all puppet-* projects.... anyway, can followup later20:29
agentle_got it20:29
ttxBut could fix in a subsequent change if needed20:29
jeblairttx: oh drat :)20:30
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ttxIf you change it now I promise to revote immediately20:30
agentle_change it!20:30
jeblairttx: my fingers have not kept up with the changing times20:30
* agentle_ didn't realize it either20:30
* ttx likes immutable acronyms that keep on describving different things.20:30
ttxProject Technical Lead -> Program Technical Lead -> Project Team Lead20:31
jeblairttx: it has 7, can i followup patch?20:31
ttxjeblair: granted20:31
ttxand I reserve the right to approve it as typo20:31
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* david-lyle glad to know what PTL means this week20:32
med_Powerful Toad Lord20:32
ttxyou never know what you sign up for! that's the beauty of the game20:32
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sdaguePretty Tough Lemming20:32
mordredttx: so - we're spending a lot of time in meetings discussing our votes in a gerrit review - perhaps we should only discuss things that haven't had enough votes for 2 weeks - or that have a -1 on them? motivate people to vote on the reviews not in the meeting?20:32
jeblairttx: https://review.openstack.org/17606220:33
sdaguemordred: ++20:33
mordredI mean, as much as I love narrating while people operate gerrit20:33
ttxmordred: sounds like a topic for the next generation TC20:33
mordredttx: neat20:33
mordredttx: I'll raise it when we have one of those20:33
mikalmordred: I agree, this seems like not a great use of time20:33
jeblairmordred: generally +1 but it's also worth discussing things where non-trival comments have been left in gerrit20:33
mordredjeblair: yah20:33
ttxfast approving https://review.openstack.org/#/c/176062/ as typo change20:34
mordredjeblair: so - "the chair should look through the reviews and see if any actually need discussion"20:34
ttx#topic Projects list housekeeping20:34
*** openstack changes topic to "Projects list housekeeping (Meeting topic: tc)"20:34
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ttx* Add glean to infra (https://review.openstack.org/172748)20:34
mordredthat way we have time to discuss things that need discussion without feeling like we'd be falling behind20:34
ttx* Rename keystoneclient-federation to saml2 (https://review.openstack.org/173619)20:34
ttx* Add django-openstack-auth-kerberos project (https://review.openstack.org/172802)20:34
ttx* Changes Rally to Benchmark service to better match other names (https://review.openstack.org/173308)20:34
ttxI think those can all be approved20:34
ttxand I'll therefore proceed20:35
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ttxHmm https://review.openstack.org/#/c/172802/20:35
ttxquestion on suse of - vs. _20:35
ttxAll the others were approved20:36
jeblairlet's bring it to jamie's attention20:36
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ttxI tend to agree that it looks a bit weird to not be consistent there20:36
jeblairit's not worth arguing over, but is worth getting right the first time if it's a mistake20:36
fungiAJaeger pointed it out in his comment too20:36
fungia week ago20:36
fungisurprised there's no reply from the author20:37
ttxI'll leave that one for the moment.20:37
ttx#topic Governance repo housekeeping20:37
*** openstack changes topic to "Governance repo housekeeping (Meeting topic: tc)"20:37
ttxjogo posted a series of code fixes for the tooling in the repo:20:37
ttx* Update sphinx docs to support team based tags (https://review.openstack.org/172591)20:37
ttx* Remove unused code from teams.py (https://review.openstack.org/172592)20:37
ttx* Update formatting of teams page (https://review.openstack.org/172593)20:37
ttx* Update diversity.py to use projects.yaml (https://review.openstack.org/174023)20:38
ttx* Add tool/framework to automatically validate the tag applications. (https://review.openstack.org/174024)20:38
ttx* Add check for 'release:has-stable-branches' (https://review.openstack.org/174169)20:38
ttxIt's more like code reviews... I propose to approve them if they pile up 2 +1s and no -1s after the meeting20:38
ttxwhich shouldn't be hard20:38
jeblairif this is getting serious, we may want to move the tooling out of this repo20:38
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ttxjeblair: half the tooling is to produce docs20:38
david-lylere: - vs _ , I believe Jamie was shooting for consistency with the rest of openstack over consistency with django_openstack_auth20:38
dhellmannI think ttx's proposal on code reviews is reasonable20:39
agentle_dhellmann: agree20:39
dhellmannttx: we should probably start writing these exceptions down somewhere :-)20:39
ttxbasically, it's not governance, it's doc or python code20:39
ttxdhellmann: kilo motto, you need a new one20:40
jeblairttx: yeah, i'm just saying that if we develop a substantial amount of code reviews, we can move it to another repo with no change in functionality, but we can give it its own core group20:40
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dhellmannttx: yep20:40
ttxjeblair: hmm, yeah20:40
ttxanyway, I'll pick them up and approve them tomorrow if they are clear20:40
jeblairthat's probably only worth doing once it gets to a certain point though20:40
ttx#topic Open discussion20:40
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)"20:40
jeblairand yeah ++ on that for now20:40
ttxRemember the TC [re]election season is open:20:40
ttx#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-April/061823.html20:41
mikalYeah, it seems like we have very few candidates so far20:41
ttxSo this asks the usual question of whether we should hold the meeting next week20:41
mikalAre people procrastinating, or is no one running?20:41
dhellmannttx: in the past we have continued to meet20:41
ttxI think people are procrastinating20:41
edleafeI'm procrastinating :)20:41
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ttxmikal: you are on te reelection list, btw ;)20:41
ttxdhellmann: agreed20:41
mikalttx: I know20:42
ttxWe are likely to have a few things to discuss next week20:42
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ttxso I propose we hold one20:42
mordredttx: can I run for a second seat? do our rules specify I can't?20:42
russellb++ to keep meeting20:42
anteayamordred: you can't run it is in the wiki20:42
ttxmordred: the rules actually say you can't20:42
devanandaI'm procrastinating sending something, but also because i'm debating not running20:42
jeblairmordred: haha!20:42
ttxmordred: Also we'll have to start organizing the TC dinner, if you're bored20:42
mordredyeah. I should start doing that20:43
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russellbThursday night?20:43
mikaldevananda: yeah, I am in a similar boat. I haven't 100% decided yet.20:43
ttxsince you are already on the next TC you can organize20:43
mordredthursday works for me - anybody have any objections to that?20:43
russellbhistorically we've invited outgoing TC members too anyway20:43
sdagueyeh, I think that's a good tradition to keep up20:43
jeblairrussellb: yes, i recall that too20:43
devanandamikal: want to gri^D^D^Dshare thoughts after the project meeting?20:43
ttxthat may make for a large dinner this time, if people keep procrastinating :)20:43
devanandarussellb: ++20:44
mordredttx: I was thinking Tim Horton's20:44
mikaldevananda: sure20:44
mesterymordred: lol :)20:44
russellbmordred: WFM20:44
mesterymordred: But seriously, Tim Horton's is #ftw ;)20:44
agentle_devananda: mikal: would love to keep you20:44
sdaguecookies and coffee :)20:44
ttxIn other news we now have 17 suggestions up for the cross-project track:20:44
ttx#link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vCTZBJKCMZ2xBhglnuK3ciKo3E8UMFo5S5lmIAYMCSE/edit?usp=sharing20:44
ttxI feel like we are still missing stuff. If you think of something, please file at:20:44
devanandawhether or not i'm on the TC next cycle, I appreciated having the outgoing folks at the previous dinners20:44
ttx#link http://goo.gl/forms/S69HM6XEeb20:44
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agentle_sdague: I can work on the Service Catalog Standardization leading the discussion20:45
ttxmordred: HP pays Hp decides20:45
sdagueagentle_: great20:45
agentle_sdague: thanks for putting it on there20:45
sdagueI just wanted to make sure we didn't miss it20:45
sdagueagentle_: no prob20:46
agentle_ttx: do you have a way to edit the sheet to add me as leading the session for Service Catalog Standardization?20:46
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ttxI can add you as editor, even20:46
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ttxagentle_: PM me your Google address20:46
agentle_ttx: Fancy20:46
sdaguettx: how many tracks / slots are we shooting for here?20:46
devanandattx: I have not proposed anything to the cross project yet20:47
ttxsdague: let me check20:47
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ttxWe have 14 sessions20:47
ttxtwo in parallel all Tuesday20:48
sdagueis that 2 tracks x 7 slots?20:48
ttxsame as in Paris, I think20:48
vishyfyi I will not be running for the next tc cycle20:48
sdaguewe did 3 somewhere20:48
vishywhich will be the first time since the ppb started i will not be there20:48
dhellmannsdague: the first time, I think. Atlanta?20:48
vishyttx you’re going to have to hold down the fort for me20:48
mordredvishy: that's very strange to me20:49
sdaguevishy: thank you so much for your leadership all these years20:49
ttxPPB oldies20:49
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jgriffithAgreed... feels weird20:49
ttxvishy: you can stay if you really want to20:50
agentle_vishy: thanks for all your input and leadership20:50
* jeblair salutes vishy 20:50
agentle_vishy: you'll come to dinner still I hope!20:50
ttxNow I know the theme of the TC dinner20:50
vishyyes still in for dinner20:50
* jgriffith propos a special dinner just for Vish20:50
agentle_not PPB oldies ttx :)20:50
agentle_that's not a foodie theme :)20:50
dhellmannvishy: thanks for leading by example, and for training me when I started contributing to openstack20:51
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vishythx for the sentiments all20:51
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vishyit has been a blast20:51
russellbvishy: thanks indeed, huge thanks for being so welcoming to me in nova20:51
fungiyou will live on in vishfacts20:51
vishyomg is that still up?20:51
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funginah, i think it went dead long ago20:52
ttxno but that should be fixed20:52
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vishythank god20:52
ttxStill on the GitHub : https://github.com/bcwaldon/vishfacts.com20:52
* jeblair would +2 an infra patch to run it. just sayin.20:52
* med_ waybacks vishfacts20:52
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ttxOK... Anything else, anyone ?20:54
zehicle#link git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/defcore/20:54
zehiclejust a reminder that we're still looking for reviews and feedback20:54
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zehiclerussellb, thanks for yours20:54
ttxack, still plan to review that last changeset from Russell, but release is a bit crazy this time20:55
ttxWe almost had a boring one20:55
zehicleI think we are not planning much on it for the joint meeting Board/TC meeting.20:55
ttxThansk a LOT to dhellmann for helping keeping kilo in one piece btw20:55
jeblairdhellmann: ++20:55
ttxdefinitelt a two-person job this time20:55
mestery++, thanks dhellmann!20:55
anteayayay dhellmann and his email script :)20:55
* zehicle completed PSA on DefCore20:56
ttxyeah, that was .. a bit too much :)20:56
jeblairopenstack: definitely a two-person job20:56
ttxI could use a tshirt with that20:56
dhellmannttx: as much fun as the last week has been, I hope next time around we'll have the lib dependency thing worked out so we can avoid repeating this.20:56
dhellmannjeblair: ++20:56
fungiit does seem like a lesson best learned once20:57
sdaguedhellmann: also... it's not done yet, we're effectively wedged20:57
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sdaguefungi: agreed, this was a bigger dragon than expected20:57
dhellmannsdague: yeah, I'm seeing stuff about cliff/stevedore/neutronclient20:57
* ttx looks in another direction20:57
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ttxAlright, if nothing else, let's close with 3 minutes break20:58
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:58
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr 21 20:58:11 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:58
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-04-21-20.03.html20:58
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-04-21-20.03.txt20:58
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openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-04-21-20.03.log.html20:58
ttxThanks everyone!20:58
dhellmannthat has to be a first20:58
jeblairfungi: i think your minute debt is canceled20:58
dhellmannttx: brb20:58
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fungihe wouldn't have spent it if he'd had it!20:58
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ttxalright, next meeting21:01
ttxcourtesy PTL ping: devananda, dhellmann, morganfainberg, notmyname, eglynn, nikhil_k, thingee, asalkeld, david-lyle, mestery, SlickNik, SergeyLukjanov, mikal: around ?21:01
devananda\o though i'll be afk for 5 min21:01
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ttxguess I should update that list21:01
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ttx#startmeeting crossproject21:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr 21 21:02:07 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:02
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'crossproject'21:02
mikalttx: I actually have to run away today...21:02
ttxmikal: run21:02
ttxOur agenda for today:21:02
ttx#link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting21:02
ttx#topic api-wg discussion21:02
*** openstack changes topic to "api-wg discussion (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:02
ttxetoews: hi!21:02
ttxI'll let you drive that one21:02
etoewssure thing21:02
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etoewsthis is something i want to do on a semi-regular baiss21:03
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etoewsonce we've discussed and reached consensus on api guidelines in the api wg, we bring them up here for more viz before merging them.21:03
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etoews#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/155620/21:04
etoewswe'd like to get some API CPLs to look at that one.21:04
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nikhil_ketoews: nice21:04
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etoewslikewise #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/159892/21:05
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agentle_really nice writing, clear21:05
etoewsone thought is that if we get no response from API CPLs by the eow then we can assume lazy consensus the merge by the following week.21:06
etoewsfeedback on that plan?21:06
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nikhil_kumm, I would suggest giving a few more days21:06
nikhil_kwith rc2 lined up for most prj21:06
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etoewsah yes. i should give some consideration to the time of cycle. :)21:07
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ttxetoews: same for weeks that cover Design Summits :)21:07
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asalkeldetoews: both +1 from me21:07
ttxbut yes, generally speaking, raise them at meeting and do lazy consensus at week+121:07
devanandaetoews: less than one week for lazy concensus, especially with RC periods or holidays, is generally not enough IMO.21:08
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etoewsunderstood. maybe we should sync the lazy consensus time to the cross-project meeting21:09
Rockygetoews: did you advertise these to the operators list? They might want to at least have a look21:09
etoewstues to tues21:09
etoewsRockyg: will do21:09
devanandaetoews: also, the commit message is super short. I'd suggest copying the first few para from the spec to the commit message, or including a summary, or something like that21:09
etoewsfair enough21:10
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devanandaetoews: also, this spec describes what a tag is and how to address it, but gives no guidance on when to use tags21:11
etoewsit's not my guideline. can you comment directly on the review? :)21:12
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agentle_tues to tues works well for synch21:12
ttxetoews: looks like we have general agreement21:12
ttxAnything else you wanted to cover ?21:12
etoewsand i think i'll send out an email to -dev and -operators advertising guidelines up for final review.21:13
etoewsttx: nope. that covers it. thx.21:13
ttxyou can send those in advance of the Cross-project meeting21:13
ttxso that people interested know they can join and discuss them21:13
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ttx#topic openstack-specs discussion21:13
*** openstack changes topic to "openstack-specs discussion (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:13
ttxWe have two openstack-specs up for discussion21:13
jokke_and have time to read it before if new thing ;)21:14
ttxSpamapS: around?21:14
SpamapSttx: I am21:14
ttx* Supported messaging drivers policy (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/174105/)21:14
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ttxI'll let you introduce yours21:14
SpamapSRight, so the intention is to ensure that oslo.messaging only ships drivers which the community is able to fully support.21:14
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SpamapSIn surveys, we have seen almost no respondents with anything other than RabbitMQ. Recently we've seen increased interest in the zmq driver, but not much investment of time and resources.21:15
bknudsonwhat's tested in the gate?21:15
SpamapSSo this policy is intended to define some clear policy for messaging drivers to meet to stay in oslo.messaging.21:15
SpamapSbknudson: only rabbitmq21:15
SpamapSAnd that is one of the requirements in the proposed spec. :)21:16
asalkeldSpamapS: do we need some kind of deprecation window?21:16
asalkeldrather than just remove21:17
SpamapSasalkeld: Yes definitely.21:17
ttxit is in the spec21:17
SpamapSasalkeld: that is also in the proposed spec.21:17
asalkeldo, missed that21:17
SpamapSIncluding provisional time for new drivers to meet all requirements.21:17
SpamapSSo that progress can be made from within the tree in good faith.21:17
ttxok, I think it makes sense. We may have to recruit people21:17
ttxI think it all makes sense21:18
johnthetubaguysomething similar worked quite well for Nova virt drivers, in many ways, it seems like a good path21:18
jokke_SpamapS: this looks to be oslo messaging policy, is there a reason why it's on openstack-specs rather than oslo-specs? ;)21:19
gordcif we mark a driver deprecated... what happens if it becomes compliant later?21:19
SpamapSPlease do provide feedback on the spec. I intend to get any out of policy drivers deprecated mid-liberty if nobody shows up to maintain and test them.21:19
gordcwe just take back the deprecated status?21:19
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asalkeldSpamapS: is it worth having some kind of support_status like we have in heat resources, so the operator knows the state of it21:19
SpamapSjokke_: because nearly everything requires oslo.messaging.21:19
ttxjokke_: that's a good point21:19
* gordc will comment on spec21:19
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SpamapSI don't think it is a decision the oslo core team should be making alone.21:20
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jokke_SpamapS: tru, but the change is still just oslo change ... oslo.messaging consumers should not need to take actions on the provider, right?21:20
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jokke_SpamapS: I think it's fair point to bring it up, here, appreciated. Just technicality out of my curiosity21:21
jokke_s/, here/ here/21:21
SpamapSSo, this may be totally off base, but ot me, oslo-specs are about implementation of common code. Because oslo is always cross-project, any policy is an openstack-wide policy and should be more broadly considered.21:21
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ttxdoesn't shock me either way21:22
SpamapSAnyway, your comments are appreciated very much, thank you!21:22
ttxOK, last coments/questions before we move on ?21:22
ttx* Return request ID to caller (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/156508/)21:22
asalkeldseems sensible21:22
tpatilJamie has suggested a new approach to pass request id using keystone client.session instead of making changes to the individual clients21:22
ttxtpatil: hi!21:22
jokke_SpamapS: I might be wrong, but I have been looking those two spec repos in a light that oslo-specs contains proposals implemented within oslo projects and openstack-specs common guidelines followed withing individual OS projects21:23
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tpatilI would like to know whether it's ok to pass request id between services or each service should generate it's own request id.21:23
johnthetubaguytpatil: I think we actually need both21:24
asalkeldjohnthetubaguy: so parent child request_ids?21:24
johnthetubaguytpatil: think about a single nova command makes many glance requests21:25
notmynameas long as the request ID passed in isn't trusted21:25
johnthetubaguyasalkeld: I was thinking simpler21:25
asalkelddo we really need to pass it in tho'21:25
tpatilIf request id can be shared between OpenStack services, then I think Jamie solution is worth21:25
johnthetubaguyso think about doing both, and the trusted issues seems to go away21:25
johnthetubaguyevery request has its own id21:25
johnthetubaguybut a caller can give their own id too (up to a certain size limit)21:26
johnthetubaguyI think that works21:26
johnthetubaguyso thinking of a single nova request id21:26
tpatilwe have started understanding keystonemiddleware, will work on spec and upload new before the next meeting.21:26
johnthetubaguythat creates several neutron requests and glance requests21:26
johnthetubaguyeach need their own id21:26
johnthetubaguybut its handy to give them the caller, Nova in this case, request uuid21:26
notmynamehmm...looks like I need to figure out how this works with the existing fuctionality in swift21:26
devanandajohnthetubaguy: and nova logs could contain both the nova and $other_service request-id's on certain log lines21:27
johnthetubaguydevananda: agreed, but I think we are better having both, glance logs with nova, and nova with glance21:27
notmynamex-trans-id header (with an optional user-settable suffix)21:27
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devanandai've had concerns in the past with allowing the python clients to pass a request id *to* a service. basically allows end users to specify arbitrary strings that show up in logs in place of meaningful data21:27
devanandajohnthetubaguy: and passing it from nova to glance means that a user could also pass their own garbage directly to glance, unless something else i'm not aware of would prevent that?21:28
jokke_I really don't like that idea ... for us to keep them unique, they need to be really long even in short period of investigation. That means that soon enough we have few first lines of log message different IDs if we chain them21:28
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johnthetubaguydevananda: right, but if each request also has its own generated id, you don't leave the logs in a bad state (assuming there is a limit on that values passed in), I think21:28
asalkeldjohnthetubaguy: surely you just need one log that maps the parent to child21:28
tpatildevananda: we can encrypt request id and the service in question should decrypt and use it instead of creating it's own.21:28
johnthetubaguyjokke_: I see only two for now, the caller and the local id, but maybe thats just me21:29
notmynameisn't this solving the same problem that "user-agent" is solving?21:29
devananda+1 for parent logging both its request-id and any request-id returned from services it called21:29
johnthetubaguytpatil: I don't see why we want to add encryption when its not required here21:29
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devanandatpatil: yea... encryption just for passing a request-id is going to add a lot more complexity that isn't necessary21:29
* jogo is amazed this same conversation has been going on for what seems to be years now21:30
bknudsonkeystone tokens have an audit_id now that could be used for tracking.21:30
devanandabknudson: what if the same token is used to issue multiple requests in parallel?21:30
johnthetubaguybknudson: thats shared between request though, I guess, which breaks the concept, I think21:30
bknudsonyou'd still need a request ID.21:30
tpatiljohnthetubaguy: nova talking with cinder, if we don't encrypt it then malicious user can send random request id, which we don't want21:31
bknudsonit could just be much shorter21:31
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asalkeldi really think the main thing here is to make the request_id accessible from the client21:31
devanandatpatil: we shouldn't be sending a request-id in a request.21:31
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johnthetubaguytpatil: but whats the halm, if you already have your local request_id there too?21:31
devanandaasalkeld: ++21:31
notmynamejogo: log your own request id. log the first 32 (or whatever) bytes of the passed-in request id. done. :-)21:31
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johnthetubaguynotmyname: +121:31
notmynameasalkeld: is it? I thought it was to correlate logs? end-users better not see those21:32
mtreinishnotmyname: all the request ids should be the same format21:32
jogonotmyname: but why do that when we can make this so much more complex?21:32
mtreinishwell except for swift I guess21:32
devanandanotmyname: if by "passed in" you mean "returned from the service you just called" -- then +121:32
mtreinishbut everything else uses the oslo lib to generate them21:32
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asalkeldnotmyname: sure, you can do that once you can get the request_id21:32
notmynamemtreinish: absolutely. the format is "a string less than XYZ bytes long"21:32
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johnthetubaguynotmyname: +121:33
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notmynamedevananda: I mean given on a request header21:33
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notmynamedevananda: thinking from the server side. yes a client sdk could plumb those together21:33
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Rockygtpatil: when will the spec rewrite be available for these folks to comment?21:34
tpatilRocky: If each service is suppose to use it's own request id, then I would request you to please provide feedback on the current spec21:34
ttxSounds like a good topic for a cross-project track session21:34
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ttx(and there is one posted)21:35
RockygAlready on the llist!21:35
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tpatiltxt: we have already added a session for this21:35
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notmynametpatil: it seems that this spec is designed more for client SDKs?21:35
ttxI'm just unsure we can make a lot more progress in a 30-min IRC discussion21:35
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asalkeldttx: do you have the link to cross project sessions?21:36
Rockygttx: that's why I was wondering when this alternative might turn up in the spec.  So we can do this offline in prep for the summit21:36
tpatilnotmyname: but it can be used by the OpenStack services as well for logging mapping of request ids21:37
ttxasalkeld: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-April/061070.html21:37
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ttxtpatil: planning to rewrite the spec to include the alternative ?21:38
ttxIn time for the Design Summit ?21:38
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tpatilttx: Sure, will do that21:38
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ttxok, I think that would be the next step21:38
Rockygtpatil: thanks!21:38
tpatilttx: yes, before the design summit21:38
ttxAny other remark/question on that topic ?21:39
ttx#topic Design Summit scheduling21:40
*** openstack changes topic to "Design Summit scheduling (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:40
ttxI sent an email last week with the proposed Design Summit slot layout21:40
bknudsonkeystoneclient session is moving to keystoneauth21:40
ttx#link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VsFdRYGbX5eCde81XDV7TrPBfEC7cgtOFikruYmqbPY/edit?usp=sharing21:40
ttxI got a complaint from Manila which would like to be more separated from Cinder21:40
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morganfainbergttx, i will need to have a keysotne session traded as we have a conflict with a presentation being given by a number of keystone cores21:41
morganfainbergttx, if possible21:41
ttxit's tricky since Cinder has 13 sessions, Manila 7, and there are only 18 available time slots21:41
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ttxmorganfainberg: when?21:42
ttxI tried to anticipate those21:42
ttxguess I missed one21:42
morganfainbergthe worksession at wed 1:5021:42
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david-lylesame for horizon session21:42
* devananda is apparently behind on emails and did not see it yet21:42
morganfainbergconflicts with http://sched.co/2qch21:42
david-lyleThurs 4:10- 5:00, multiple cores giving talk21:43
ttxOK, I'll try to move things around a propose a new one tomorrow21:43
david-lyleis the conflict21:43
ttxOh right I detected this one.21:44
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ttxit's with a work session. I'll trto move it out21:44
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david-lylettx: thanks21:44
ttxAny change on that grid is cascading new failures though21:45
morganfainbergthen i'd be willing to surrender the worksession actually.21:45
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morganfainbergfor keystone at least.21:45
ttxanyway, if you have other remarks, post them now on that thread (or here) so I can include them in the final layout21:45
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ttxI'll push placeholder sessions to the Design Summit sched before end of week21:46
david-lylettx: is that the middle of a work session?21:46
ttxThen you'll be able to use a new tool called Cheddar to update the contents of each slot in your track21:46
david-lylefor horizon21:46
ttxdavid-lyle: yes21:46
morganfainbergttx: which thread?21:46
david-lyleif so, we can let it stand21:46
david-lylewe can come and go21:46
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ttxmorganfainberg: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-April/061770.html21:47
morganfainbergttx, thnx21:47
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ttxCheddar is a sched proxy that lets you edit some (but not all) of the details of sessions21:47
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ttxLike you can't change the time or the room.21:47
ttxI'll send an email about it soon21:47
ttxNote that you can have several people registered to admin your track. By default, will be the PTL, but let me know if you want to delegate that to others21:47
ttx#topic Open discussion & announcements21:48
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion & announcements (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:48
ttxI posted the proposed Liberty release date and milestone schedule last week:21:48
ttx#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-April/061331.html21:49
ttxLet me know if you have problems with it, would be good to make official soon21:49
ttxOn the release side, we started to roll out RC2s, but the requirements clusterf*ck hit us again21:49
ttxhopefully will be solved soon21:50
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ttxAnything else, anyone ?21:50
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devanandattx: any guidance on room sizes on the spreadsheet?21:51
devanandaif so, I dont see it21:51
devanandattx: I only requested 2 fishbowl sessions for ironic this cycle, but i expect them to be very crowded. in paris our room was overflowing ...21:52
ttxdevananda: not really. We can switch those if needed. The column width gives you an idea.21:52
bknudsonfishbowls actually sound smaller than work rooms.21:52
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devanandaI think of fishbowls as the place everyone comes to look at and poke the fish :)21:52
devanandawhere fish == core devs21:52
ttxfishbowl 4 is....21:52
* ttx checks21:52
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bknudsondon't bang on the glass... scares us.21:52
ttx182 seats21:53
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ttxhmm, actually might be a 212 seat one21:53
thingeeI'm experiencing the issue where most people are assigning stuff to working sessions rather than fishbowl for cinder https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/cinder-liberty-proposed-sessions21:53
thingeeI think some of these can be moved around, but maybe cinder won't need as many fish bowl21:54
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ttxthingee: you can disguise a fishbowl into a meeting room in the agenda21:54
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ttxby using the right title21:54
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ttxAll work sessions have the same (boring) title21:54
ttxsince they are like 30-seat rooms, better not attract random people21:55
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ttxbut that doesn't prevent you from using the same boring title for your fishbowls. A sort of anti-honeypot.21:55
jokke_thingee: if you are really struggling, we (Logging WG) might be able to utilize your fishbowl :P21:55
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thingeejokke_: We're going to be discussing these in the next cinder meeting. I'll reply to the list and let ttx if we don't need so many21:56
thingeenext cinder meeting being tomorrow21:56
ttxok, let's close this21:57
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:57
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr 21 21:57:13 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:57
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-04-21-21.02.html21:57
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-04-21-21.02.txt21:57
jokke_thanks again!21:57
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-04-21-21.02.log.html21:57
ttxThanks everyone!21:57
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