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| anteaya | #startmeeting third-party | 08:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 12 08:00:15 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 08:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 08:00 |
| anteaya | raise your nand if you are here for the third party meeting | 08:00 |
| anteaya | reminder this meeting is cancelled next week due to summit | 08:00 |
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| anteaya | the next meeting in this time slot is May 26 | 08:01 |
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| kakuma | hi anteaya | 08:03 |
| anteaya | kakuma: hello | 08:04 |
| anteaya | welcome | 08:04 |
| kakuma | Thank you. | 08:04 |
| anteaya | I don't know as I have met you before | 08:04 |
| anteaya | what system is yours? | 08:04 |
| kakuma | No. I am first. | 08:04 |
| anteaya | glad you are here | 08:05 |
| kakuma | I operate ryu-ci in neutron. | 08:05 |
| anteaya | oh yes | 08:05 |
| anteaya | I know that system | 08:05 |
| kakuma | I have some question to infra-team. | 08:05 |
| anteaya | ask away | 08:05 |
| kakuma | I have the problem for cross-repo on zuul. | 08:06 |
| anteaya | what problem do you have? | 08:06 |
| anteaya | have you a stacktrace? | 08:06 |
| kakuma | I reported about the problem in StoryBoard(https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2000198). | 08:06 |
| kakuma | I hope that it is checked to infra-team. | 08:07 |
| kakuma | StoryBoard seems not to be checked. | 08:08 |
| anteaya | well the thing is that we would need someone to offer a fix for the problem | 08:08 |
| anteaya | and everyone on infra who knows enough about zuul to do so is busy doing other things | 08:09 |
| anteaya | for instance we upgraded to gerrit on saturday and then had to downgrade last night | 08:09 |
| kakuma | Yes i see. | 08:09 |
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| anteaya | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-May/063877.html | 08:10 |
| anteaya | so it is a matter of someone coming forward and offering a fix | 08:10 |
| anteaya | have you time to do so? | 08:11 |
| kakuma | Sorry, my pc is sometime freeze. | 08:13 |
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| anteaya | it happens | 08:15 |
| kakuma | currently, I have my many work. | 08:16 |
| anteaya | yes | 08:16 |
| anteaya | I understand that | 08:16 |
| anteaya | but I didn't want you to think we don't appreciate you filing the bug | 08:16 |
| anteaya | we do | 08:16 |
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| anteaya | but the reason you haven't seen it fixed is that so far we haven't had anyone decide they want to fix it | 08:17 |
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| kakuma | Sorry, ｃould you be a little more easily expressed your sentence. | 08:24 |
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| anteaya | sure | 08:26 |
| anteaya | thank you for filing the bug | 08:26 |
| anteaya | we appreciate that you filed the bug | 08:26 |
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| anteaya | the reason you don't see a fix for the bug you filed | 08:26 |
| anteaya | is taht we have noone with time to fix it | 08:27 |
| anteaya | is *that we have noone with time to fix it | 08:27 |
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| kakuma | Thank you. | 08:27 |
| anteaya | :) | 08:28 |
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| kakuma | By the way, do you know latest version of zuul? | 08:29 |
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| anteaya | it came up in this morning's meeting | 08:30 |
| anteaya | I don't know, no | 08:30 |
| kakuma | I got the information that there is CI using zuul of 2.0.1.dev374. | 08:30 |
| anteaya | but the latest tag it 2.0.0 http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/zuul/refs/ | 08:31 |
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| anteaya | kakuma: do you mind telling me which CI | 08:31 |
| anteaya | we havn't released a 2.0.1 of zuul | 08:31 |
| kakuma | really. | 08:31 |
| anteaya | if we did the tag ref would be listed on that page | 08:32 |
| anteaya | also we don't seem to ever have created a x.x.1 version of zuul | 08:32 |
| anteaya | looking at the past tags | 08:33 |
| anteaya | so someone might be confused | 08:33 |
| kakuma | I got it at krtaylor's meeting. | 08:33 |
| anteaya | did you | 08:33 |
| anteaya | do you recall when? | 08:33 |
| kakuma | that is log of http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-05-06-04.00.log.html | 08:35 |
| kakuma | It maybe cinder CI. | 08:36 |
| anteaya | patrickeast is pretty reliable | 08:37 |
| anteaya | but I have no idea where he is getting his zuul version from | 08:37 |
| anteaya | since I see no such tag coming from us | 08:37 |
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| anteaya | and he doesn't seem to say where his version comes from in the log | 08:38 |
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| kakuma | yes i see. thank you for your chec. | 08:38 |
| kakuma | s/chec/check/ | 08:39 |
| anteaya | sure | 08:39 |
| anteaya | I too am interested to find out where patrickeast's version is coming from | 08:40 |
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| anteaya | thanks for showing me the log so I can see for myself | 08:40 |
| kakuma | I have another one question. | 08:41 |
| anteaya | please ask | 08:41 |
| kakuma | There is our repository on stackforge. | 08:42 |
| anteaya | what is the name of the stackforge repository? | 08:42 |
| kakuma | it is networking-ofagent. | 08:42 |
| kakuma | How can I push stable branch on our repository. | 08:43 |
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| kakuma | Is there some documents for that? | 08:44 |
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| yamamoto | kakuma: my understanding is that we can create a branch after https://review.openstack.org/#/c/182144/ is merged | 08:44 |
| anteaya | this file controls the permissions you have on your repository: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/project-config/tree/gerrit/acls/stackforge/networking-ofagent.config | 08:44 |
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| anteaya | yamamoto: you are correct | 08:45 |
| anteaya | why do you have permissions for third party ci to vote on your repo? | 08:45 |
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| anteaya | is that your ci system? | 08:45 |
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| yamamoto | networking-ofagent-ci is our ci. it covers ryu and ofagent. | 08:46 |
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| anteaya | yes | 08:47 |
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| anteaya | but why have you given verification permissions on your stackforge repo to ofagent-ci? | 08:47 |
| kakuma | Thank you yamamoto. | 08:47 |
| anteaya | is ryu ci voting on your networking-ofagent repo? | 08:48 |
| yamamoto | anteaya: yes | 08:48 |
| anteaya | okay | 08:48 |
| anteaya | thanks for letting me know | 08:48 |
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| yamamoto | is branch creation procedure documented somewhere? i only found a procedure for release tags. | 08:50 |
| anteaya | this section is probably the best section: http://docs.openstack.org/infra/manual/drivers.html#release-management | 08:51 |
| anteaya | but I think it needs to be re-written | 08:51 |
| anteaya | ttx ^ | 08:52 |
| yamamoto | thank you. i'll take a look. | 08:52 |
| anteaya | as we have gone to a workflow of moving straight to stable branches | 08:52 |
| anteaya | and not using proposed branches at all anymore | 08:52 |
| anteaya | there is another section in that manual on feature branches, but it isn't exactly what you need | 08:53 |
| anteaya | as feature branches are for development and suggest you add pushing merge commit permissions to your repo | 08:53 |
| anteaya | which you don't need if you are working with a branch for release purposes model | 08:53 |
| yamamoto | then, after getting permission, just creating stable/foo in web ui is ok? | 08:53 |
| ttx | anteaya: noted | 08:53 |
| anteaya | thanks | 08:54 |
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| anteaya | yamamoto: yes after the patch that adds the create rule merges then just create the stable/foo branch | 08:54 |
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| yamamoto | anteaya: ok i'll try after the patch merged. thank you! | 08:55 |
| anteaya | are you creating a branch for release purposes? | 08:55 |
| anteaya | thank you for pointing out the patch | 08:55 |
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| yamamoto | anteaya: yes. we are considering to align our repo with neutron for easier releases | 08:56 |
| anteaya | wonderful | 08:56 |
| anteaya | then that patch that adds the create rule should be all you need | 08:56 |
| yamamoto | as neutron plugin api is still a moving target... | 08:56 |
| anteaya | yes | 08:56 |
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| anteaya | anything else we can discuss today? | 08:58 |
| anteaya | 2 minutes left in this meeting | 08:58 |
| yamamoto | nothing from me | 08:58 |
| anteaya | yamamoto: thanks | 08:58 |
| anteaya | kakuma: anything else from you today? | 08:58 |
| kakuma | nothing from me too | 08:59 |
| anteaya | it has been a pleasure to talk to you both today | 08:59 |
| anteaya | next week's meeting in this time slot is cancelled | 08:59 |
| anteaya | the next meeting in this time slot will be May 26th | 08:59 |
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| anteaya | thanks so much for your participation | 09:00 |
| anteaya | see you in 2 weeks | 09:00 |
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| anteaya | #endmeeting | 09:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 09:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 12 09:00:10 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 09:00 |
| yamamoto | bye | 09:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-05-12-08.00.html | 09:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-05-12-08.00.txt | 09:00 |
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| kakuma | thank you anteaya | 09:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-05-12-08.00.log.html | 09:00 |
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| anteaya | :) | 09:00 |
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| lxsli | o/ | 14:59 |
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| n0ano | #startmeeting gantt | 14:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 12 14:59:46 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 14:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'gantt' | 14:59 |
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| n0ano | anyone here to talk about the scheduler? | 14:59 |
| lxsli | o/ | 15:00 |
| xek | o/ | 15:00 |
| lxsli | A new challenger appears! | 15:00 |
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| n0ano | more the merrier, welcome | 15:00 |
| xek | hi :) | 15:00 |
| edleafe | o/ | 15:00 |
| lxsli | yes indeed, welcome | 15:00 |
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| xek | I'm interested in accelerating gantt's progress and then help with the magnum implementation | 15:01 |
| bauzas | \o | 15:01 |
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| n0ano | let's get started, hope to keep it short today in prep for the summit | 15:01 |
| n0ano | #topic Vancouver summit | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Vancouver summit (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:02 | |
| n0ano | bad news is I sumitted a proposal for a cross-project session on scheduler and it didn't make it into the program | 15:02 |
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| bauzas | yup, saw thayt | 15:02 |
| bauzas | that | 15:02 |
| n0ano | not sure how we're going to get input from the other projects on what they need from a common scheduler | 15:03 |
| lxsli | cinder were interested, right? | 15:03 |
| bauzas | n0ano: I have a neutron session about QoS that I should attend | 15:03 |
| edleafe | maybe we can ping them for a BoF session | 15:03 |
| bauzas | ajo: around ? | 15:03 |
| n0ano | edleafe, +1 | 15:03 |
| bauzas | edleafe: +1 | 15:03 |
| ajo | hi bauzas | 15:03 |
| n0ano | edleafe, even thought BoFs normally don't draw that much attention we should still try that | 15:03 |
| ajo | hi, gantt people :) | 15:03 |
| bauzas | ajo: could you please remind me when is your QoS session in the Neutron room ? | 15:03 |
| ajo | bauzas, sure, let me re-check | 15:04 |
| bauzas | ajo: sshhhhht, s/gantt/nova-scheduler/ :) | 15:04 |
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| ajo | O:) | 15:04 |
| n0ano | bauzas, you say poe-tato, i say pah-tato :-) | 15:04 |
| ajo | bauzas: session is 11:00 - 11:40, Thu | 15:04 |
| bauzas | ajo: thanks, adding it to my sched | 15:05 |
| bauzas | ajo: link ? | 15:05 |
| * bauzas is lazy | 15:05 | |
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| n0ano | xek, will magnum have a session remoted related to scheduling? | 15:05 |
| n0ano | s/remoted/remotely | 15:05 |
| ajo | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Summit/Liberty/Etherpads#Neutron there you also have the link to etherpad, empty yet, | 15:05 |
| bauzas | n0ano: what we should find is some CPL people for that | 15:05 |
| ajo | we will decide on the points during Tomorrow's QoS meeting (14:00 UTC #openstack-meeting-3) | 15:06 |
| bauzas | ajo: I was referring to the sched.org link, but nevermind, will do it | 15:06 |
| n0ano | I'm slow today, CPL? | 15:06 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: cross-project liaisons | 15:06 |
| ajo | bauzas, ah sorry | 15:06 |
| xek | n0ano, probably not, I don't know | 15:06 |
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| n0ano | we'll have to read the schedule carefully and see if there are any sessions that would be appropriate to make noise from the back of the room | 15:07 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: agreed | 15:07 |
| lxsli | +1 | 15:07 |
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| lxsli | Do we have a recommended reading list yet? | 15:08 |
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| n0ano | that's kind of the big summit things, anything else about the summit anyone wants to raise | 15:08 |
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| bauzas | ajo: n0ano: http://libertydesignsummit.sched.org/event/90cf83ac6ae678ab2e636d5060c587c4#.VVIXhMvDhiU is something we can lurk and shout | 15:09 |
| ajo | bauzas, thanks ;) | 15:09 |
| bauzas | ajo: I still need to see the conflicts with the Nova room | 15:09 |
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| ajo | bauzas: 11:00 - 11:40: Flavors and Image Properties | 15:10 |
| ajo | bauzas, that's for nova on tuesday, same time | 15:10 |
| ajo | sorry | 15:10 |
| bauzas | ajo: that's doable then | 15:10 |
| ajo | Thursday | 15:10 |
| ajo | s/tue/thu/g for ajo | 15:11 |
| ajo | ;) | 15:11 |
| n0ano | lxsli, what reading list were you looking for (haven't forgotten you :-) | 15:11 |
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| lxsli | iirc John said a reading list would go out pre-summit: session etherpads at least, maybe hot specs? | 15:12 |
| n0ano | aah, that would be good but I don't know anything about it | 15:12 |
| bauzas | lxsli: there is a list of etherpads now | 15:13 |
| bauzas | oops n0ano too | 15:13 |
| bauzas | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Summit/Liberty/Etherpads#Nova | 15:13 |
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| bauzas | I began to draw a few things in the sched etherpads | 15:13 |
| lxsli | bauzas: Ah right you are, thanks | 15:14 |
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| bauzas | ajo: *sigh* https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/YVR-nova-flavors-and-image-properties is actually something I need to participate | 15:15 |
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| ajo | bauzas :/, may be we can arrange some cross-team informal meeting | 15:15 |
| n0ano | ajo, we'd be delighted to do that | 15:16 |
| ajo | :-) | 15:16 |
| ajo | ok, we'll be in contact during summit then :) | 15:16 |
| bauzas | ajo: someone else from the scheduler team can join your talk, tho | 15:16 |
| ajo | bauzas, that'd be nice too | 15:16 |
| bauzas | n0ano: interested ? | 15:17 |
| n0ano | unfortunately, I need to be at the flavors/image properties session also | 15:17 |
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| edleafe | me too | 15:17 |
| ajo | bauzas, I'd like to join your scheduler meeting, but it's colliding with the main development one for neutron 09:00 - 09:40: Neutron Liberty Development | 15:17 |
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| n0ano | I know other people from my team will be at the QoS session if that helps | 15:17 |
| bauzas | ajo: okay, sounds like I will ask ttx to serialize the sessions | 15:18 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, +1 | 15:18 |
| ajo | bauzas +1 | 15:18 |
| ajo | that'd be awesome | 15:18 |
| bauzas | so, good news, the Tokyo summit will last 15 days | 15:18 |
| bauzas | working days of course | 15:18 |
| ajo | 15 days? :o | 15:18 |
| lxsli | :o | 15:18 |
| * bauzas kidding | 15:18 | |
| ajo | lol | 15:18 |
| bauzas | anyway, I'm diverting | 15:18 |
| ajo | bauzas-- | 15:18 |
| ajo | ;) | 15:18 |
| n0ano | bauzas, you had me going there for a second :-) | 15:19 |
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| bauzas | okay, I think we're pretty close to a thing ? | 15:19 |
| n0ano | I'm good, anyone else have anything? | 15:19 |
| bauzas | saying that we need to socialize and take beers with other teams ? | 15:19 |
| edleafe | bauzas: +1 | 15:19 |
| n0ano | bauzas, socialize, beers and BoF | 15:20 |
| bauzas | edleafe: I still remind I owe you one :) | 15:20 |
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| edleafe | just one? | 15:20 |
| edleafe | :) | 15:20 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: isn't that what BoF is ? | 15:20 |
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| bauzas | Beers of Feather ? | 15:20 |
| edleafe | Beer of a Feather | 15:20 |
| edleafe | jink | 15:20 |
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| edleafe | jinx, even | 15:20 |
| n0ano | OK, I appreciate the humor, but unless we have anything else serious | 15:20 |
| bauzas | about the BoF, how can we set it up ? | 15:21 |
| bauzas | just raise an email ? | 15:21 |
| n0ano | bauzas, you do it at the session, there will be a board | 15:21 |
| bauzas | to the world, ie. -dev ? | 15:21 |
| bauzas | n0ano: oh cool | 15:21 |
| edleafe | like n0ano said, there will be a board, but an email in advance wouldn't hurt | 15:21 |
| n0ano | posting an email to -dev saying we intend to setup a BoF would be good | 15:22 |
| n0ano | edleafe, jink | 15:22 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: I guess an email to -dev@ is also valuable since even if the room is packed, not all the interested people will attend our session | 15:22 |
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| bauzas | okay, let's trigger for on Monday | 15:22 |
| bauzas | we need a room first | 15:22 |
| n0ano | I proposed the initial x-project, I'll post the message to -dev | 15:22 |
| bauzas | n0ano: cool, you got my blessing | 15:22 |
| edleafe | n0ano: thanks | 15:23 |
| n0ano | #action n0ano to post email about x-project scheduling BoF | 15:23 |
| bauzas | so, open discussion or we can call it wrap ? | 15:23 |
| n0ano | bauzas, let's see | 15:23 |
| n0ano | #topic opens | 15:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "opens (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:23 | |
| n0ano | anything new? | 15:23 |
| n0ano | hearing crickets, speak now or... | 15:24 |
| n0ano | OK, tnx everyone and we'll see you next week | 15:24 |
| n0ano | #endmeeting | 15:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:24 | |
| bauzas | tkx | 15:24 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 12 15:24:57 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:25 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-05-12-14.59.html | 15:25 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-05-12-14.59.txt | 15:25 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-05-12-14.59.log.html | 15:25 |
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| ayoung | KEYSTONE! ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, bknudson, breton, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, ericksonsantos, geoffarnold, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, joesavak, lbragstad, lhcheng, marekd, morganfainberg, nkinder, raildo, rharwood, rodrigods, roxanaghe, samueldmq, stevemar, topol, wanghong | 18:00 |
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| lbragstad | yo | 18:00 |
| marekd | present! | 18:00 |
| rodrigods | o/ | 18:00 |
| ayoung | #startmeeting Keystone | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 12 18:00:12 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ayoung. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| raildo | yay \o/ | 18:00 |
| amakarov | hi! | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:00 |
| morganfainberg | o/ here somewhat | 18:00 |
| breton | o/ | 18:00 |
| lhcheng | o/ | 18:00 |
| bknudson | you can just tweet me | 18:00 |
| geoffarnold | o/ | 18:00 |
| gyee | \o | 18:00 |
| dstanek | bknudson: now you've opened a can of worms | 18:00 |
| ayoung | Agenda is https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 18:00 |
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| ayoung | My topic on testing from last week should have been removed. | 18:01 |
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| ayoung | So..... | 18:01 |
| gyee | bknudson, whatever you tweet can be held against you in the court of law | 18:01 |
| ericksonsantos | \o | 18:01 |
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| ayoung | Reminder: No IRC meeting next week | 18:01 |
| topol | o/ | 18:01 |
| ayoung | See you at summit, or catch up the following week | 18:02 |
| ayoung | Week afterwards is summit recap | 18:02 |
| breton | any cool talks to listen at the summit? | 18:02 |
| breton | *keystone-related talks | 18:02 |
| ayoung | Give you a few seconds if you want to post anything on the last two itesm of the agenda, but at this point, anything important should be slated for summit | 18:02 |
| ayoung | breton, Mine! | 18:03 |
| topol | some federated identity talks might be of itnerest :-) | 18:03 |
| morganfainberg | No meeting the week post summit either | 18:03 |
| ayoung | Dynamic Policy! | 18:03 |
| rodrigods | topol, ++ | 18:03 |
| ayoung | 6/2 Post Summit rundown | 18:03 |
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| rodrigods | there is also a keynote | 18:03 |
| bknudson | are there any conflicts that people see in the schedule? | 18:03 |
| marekd | topol: is going to be broadcasted so i can watch it? | 18:03 |
| jsavak | \o | 18:03 |
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| ayoung | Anything on Specs? | 18:03 |
| dstanek | bknudson: there are 2 policy sessions in the same time slot on one of the days | 18:04 |
| topol | marekd? you are going to be there, correct | 18:04 |
| amakarov | HMT improvement | 18:04 |
| ayoung | OK...weekly bug reports: | 18:04 |
| ayoung | http://keystone-weekly-bug-report.tempusfrangit.org/weekly-bug-reports/keystone-weekly-bug-report.html | 18:04 |
| marekd | topol: i hope so! | 18:04 |
| marekd | ;-) | 18:04 |
| jsavak | lol | 18:04 |
| ayoung | Got one unassigned in audit. gordon is no longer Audit point man...anyone want to take it? | 18:05 |
| bknudson | dstanek: which ones are those? | 18:05 |
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| ayoung | topol, any idea who is working on audit these days? | 18:06 |
| dstanek | bknudson: Tues @ 440 | 18:06 |
| topol | ayoung, me and stevemar | 18:07 |
| topol | ayoung what happened to gordon? | 18:07 |
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| ayoung | topol, care to triage https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystonemiddleware/+bug/1452055 | 18:07 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1452055 in keystonemiddleware "Improvement for notification support detection in audit middleware" [Undecided,New] | 18:07 |
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| bknudson | dstanek: there's a cross-project and then one for group based policy | 18:07 |
| dstanek | bknudson: and even Wed at 11 | 18:07 |
| ayoung | topol, he's PTL for something else, I think\ | 18:07 |
| topol | ayoung, sure will take a look | 18:07 |
| bknudson | I don't know what group based policy is | 18:07 |
| ayoung | bknudson, not us | 18:07 |
| ayoung | that is neutron | 18:07 |
| morganfainberg | Some Keystone folks are working on it there's a whole core team. But it moves pretty slow | 18:08 |
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| bknudson | what is it? | 18:08 |
| bknudson | they have a lot of sessions | 18:08 |
| morganfainberg | Audit that is | 18:08 |
| morganfainberg | Not gbp | 18:08 |
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| ayoung | bknudson, Group Policy has something to do with placement of VMs and Firewalls and things not Keystone | 18:08 |
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| ayoung | topol , Gordon is PTL for Metering/Monitoring (Ceilometer) | 18:09 |
| dstanek | ayoung: so not really policy related? | 18:09 |
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| ayoung | dstanek, that is why I named my presentation Policy for Access Control | 18:09 |
| bknudson | there's some security sessions I'll likely go to that conflict with keystone sessions | 18:09 |
| ayoung | the term policy has been co-opted...as well it should be | 18:09 |
| topol | ayoung, did officially bug out? Thats fine. I just missed it on the mailing list if he did | 18:09 |
| geoffarnold | GBP is for declarative network provisioning | 18:09 |
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| ayoung | topol, nah, I just don't treat him as my personal Audit expert anymore. Gordon doesn't scale | 18:10 |
| geoffarnold | crudely, GBP is to Neutron as Heat is to Nova | 18:10 |
| topol | bknudson, I can get ou connected on the group base dpolicy stuff | 18:10 |
| topol | bknudson just understand its not policy like we think policy in Keystone | 18:11 |
| ayoung | geoffarnold, doesn't Heat cause a star to go Nova? So GBP is what causes Neutron to explode? | 18:11 |
| geoffarnold | Neutron is already at critical state.... | 18:11 |
| ayoung | anyway..I'll alloce 5 more minutes for gneral convo and then call the meeting. | 18:11 |
| topol | ayoung, I think it depends who is holding the detontator | 18:11 |
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| ayoung | Anyone else headed from Seattle to Vancouver on Sunday? | 18:12 |
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| lbragstad | no, but I'll be there Saturday | 18:12 |
| lbragstad | I assume most are getting in on Sunday? | 18:12 |
| * breton will be there saturday evening | 18:12 | |
| topol | ayoung, I arrive on Sunday | 18:12 |
| geoffarnold | GBP is on interest to Keystone only in the same way that Heat is: lots of delegated "on behalf on" authorization | 18:12 |
| * marekd sunday | 18:12 | |
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| geoffarnold | of interest | 18:12 |
| morganfainberg | Train from PDX to Vancouver on sat | 18:12 |
| geoffarnold | flying up Friday; playing tourist Sat/Sun | 18:13 |
| jsavak | i'll be there sunday | 18:13 |
| ayoung | lbragstad, yeah. I had been told you could take a ferry, but it turns out there is no Ferry from Seattle to Vancouver. You have to go to Victoria frist..would take 8+ hours | 18:13 |
| gyee | what's the url to the wiki on getting around vancouver | 18:13 |
| gyee | I missed that email | 18:13 |
| breton | who's going to have a big print of a keystone specie? | 18:14 |
| ayoung | was told train is the best option, but the train either leaves too early or too late | 18:14 |
| * topol you all get time to play tourist. Im very jealous | 18:14 | |
| ayoung | breton, you asking us to counterfit? | 18:14 |
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| raildo | gyee, there is some good informations here: https://www.openstack.org/summit/vancouver-2015/about-vancouver/#getting-around | 18:15 |
| ayoung | OK...one more minute, and then moving back to #openstack-keystone | 18:15 |
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| ayoung | #endmeeting | 18:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:16 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 12 18:16:03 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:16 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-05-12-18.00.html | 18:16 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-05-12-18.00.txt | 18:16 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-05-12-18.00.log.html | 18:16 |
| gyee | raildo, I thought there was another one, similar to the one for paris | 18:16 |
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| tchaypo | I love an awkward silence | 18:59 |
| Clint | shhh | 18:59 |
| anteaya | like the start of a theatre production | 18:59 |
| Rockyg | ++ | 18:59 |
| jeblair | house to half... and... go. | 19:00 |
| anteaya | o/ | 19:00 |
| crinkle | o/ | 19:00 |
| zaro | o/ | 19:00 |
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| mordred | o/ | 19:00 |
| Clint | o/ | 19:00 |
| clarkb | hello | 19:00 |
| pleia2 | o/ | 19:00 |
| mrmartin | \o/ | 19:00 |
| mordred | look at all these lovely fine people | 19:00 |
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| jeblair | and bots | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 12 19:01:02 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:01 |
| ianw | o/ | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #link previous meeting http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-05-05-19.03.html | 19:01 |
| nibalizer | o/ | 19:01 |
| krtaylor | o/ | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #topic Announcements | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:01 | |
| jeblair | #link design summit schedule http://libertydesignsummit.sched.org/type/design+summit/infrastructure#.VVJOMuSVtpg | 19:01 |
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| jeblair | that's what i pulled together out of the etherpad we were working on | 19:01 |
| peristeri | o/ | 19:02 |
| jeblair | it is, as always, subject to change, especially this week | 19:02 |
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| krotscheck | o/ | 19:02 |
| jeblair | you'll note that the "work sessions" have boring titles but actual descriptions of what they entail | 19:02 |
| pabelanger | o/ | 19:02 |
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| anteaya | yay for boring titles | 19:03 |
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| jeblair | the intent (this is an openstack-wide thing, not an infra decision) is to keep people from just showing up because the title looks interesting | 19:03 |
| jeblair | so while we might expect a little bit of an audience (though it's still not encouraged) for the fishbowl sessions | 19:03 |
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| jeblair | the work sessions should be much less of a 'show' | 19:03 |
| jesusaurus | o/ | 19:04 |
| jeblair | and then the meetup has no fixed agenda or even a description attached | 19:04 |
| jeblair | so while we still have things that we think we're going to hack on going in, but we can decide on our agenda on that day | 19:04 |
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| jeblair | any questions or comments? | 19:05 |
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| pleia2 | there's also a translations session on *monday* that some of us should try to attend (I'm running it with Daisy), details coming together here https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Vancouver-I18n-WG-session I expect we'll want use some time on Friday for this work too since all the right people will be together in person (and time zone!), like we did in Paris | 19:05 |
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| jeblair | pleia2: what's the time slot for that? | 19:05 |
| pleia2 | jeblair: tentatively 2:50pm - 3:30pm | 19:06 |
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| pleia2 | the etherpad will be updated if that changes, and I'll try to let people know | 19:06 |
| mordred | fyi - I will be in an ansible session monday afternoon- anyone who wants to talk about the new ansible modules is welcome to come | 19:06 |
| mordred | this is part of the "associated projects get space near the summit" program | 19:07 |
| anteaya | presentation or discussion? | 19:07 |
| mordred | discussion | 19:07 |
| anteaya | cool, I would like to attend | 19:07 |
| jeblair | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:08 | |
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| jeblair | fungi check our cinder quota in rax-dfw | 19:08 |
| jeblair | not sure if fungi is back yet | 19:08 |
| jeblair | #action fungi check our cinder quota in rax-dfw | 19:08 |
| jeblair | #action jeblair make the priority effort gerrit topics more visible to reduce the need to shout for reviews in this meeting | 19:08 |
| jeblair | i am almost there ^ | 19:08 |
| jeblair | i think i'll be able to get to that this week | 19:09 |
| tchaypo | mordred: is there a link to a schedule thing for that? | 19:09 |
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| mordred | tchaypo: nope - I'll try to get people info | 19:09 |
| fungi | i am back now | 19:09 |
| fungi | sorry about that | 19:09 |
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| pleia2 | wb fungi | 19:10 |
| fungi | and no, i did not get around to checking our quota ;) | 19:10 |
| jeblair | excellent, action item already action itemed! | 19:10 |
| fungi | your precognitive skills are beyond compare | 19:10 |
| pabelanger | mordred, Ya, plan to attend the ansible stuff too. See that the vibe is like | 19:10 |
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| jeblair | #topic Schedule next project renames | 19:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Schedule next project renames (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:10 | |
| jeblair | i don't want to do this now, does anyone else? :) | 19:11 |
| anteaya | ha ha ha | 19:11 |
| fungi | post summit | 19:11 |
| mordred | nope | 19:11 |
| jeblair | yep, let's do this next post summit | 19:11 |
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| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Downstream Puppet) | 19:11 |
| fungi | i have to catch a flight very early saturday, so er, friday afternoon would even be a bit of a stretch for me | 19:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Downstream Puppet) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:11 | |
| clarkb | ya and everyone is busy enough with summit prep | 19:12 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: you pinged? | 19:12 |
| nibalizer | yes so https://review.openstack.org/#/c/178887/ is part of a plan cooked up in -infra | 19:12 |
| nibalizer | as a way to accoplish the linked spec | 19:12 |
| nibalizer | so sorry for anyone who is administratively -2'd for that | 19:12 |
| nibalizer | the dependent change (causing the admin -2s) has merged I think at this point though | 19:12 |
| nibalizer | erp | 19:13 |
| nibalizer | erp this is the review i meant https://review.openstack.org/#/c/180783/ | 19:13 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/180783 | 19:13 |
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| nibalizer | jeblair: point is, I think the only refactors I needed to do touching o_p::template and o_p::server are done | 19:13 |
| jeblair | oh this is the template reorg? | 19:13 |
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| nibalizer | so those admin -2's are no longer needed | 19:14 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: yes | 19:14 |
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| jeblair | nibalizer: excellent, i will remove them asap, thanks | 19:14 |
| clarkb | and for those following along the -2s were on other changes to avoid conflicts | 19:14 |
| nibalizer | this spec http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/infra-specs/tree/specs/server_base_template_refactor.rst | 19:14 |
| anteaya | clarkb: thanks | 19:14 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: well thats what I think... do you concur that we dont' need the -2's any more? | 19:14 |
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| nibalizer | better link: http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/server_base_template_refactor.html | 19:15 |
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| jeblair | nibalizer: they were mostly to make your life easier and avoid lots of rebases, so i'm good if you're good :) | 19:15 |
| nibalizer | okay, good :) | 19:16 |
| nibalizer | then they can be removed, thanks for helping with that | 19:16 |
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| jeblair | np | 19:16 |
| nibalizer | and thats all I had from a 'downstream-puppet' place | 19:16 |
| jeblair | any other priority effort topics? | 19:16 |
| clarkb | oh I have one | 19:17 |
| fungi | no blockers to report for the stuff i'm working on anyway | 19:17 |
| clarkb | jhesketh has written a devstack plugin for os-loganalyze, which will allow us to test that with real swift | 19:17 |
| clarkb | just pointing it out because its a thing and not something we have done before | 19:17 |
| jeblair | that's kinda cool :) | 19:17 |
| fungi | great idea | 19:18 |
| clarkb | but its possible nodepool may want to do something similar | 19:18 |
| mordred | well, almost - we are doing functional testing with shade against devstack too | 19:18 |
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| mrmartin | askbot at my side | 19:18 |
| mordred | however, I do agree it's super cool | 19:18 |
| clarkb | as the next step beyond the "thsi is how you nodepool + devstack" | 19:18 |
| clarkb | mordred: you aren't using a plugin are you? | 19:18 |
| mordred | clarkb: no need to | 19:18 |
| clarkb | oh right since shade isn't a service | 19:18 |
| fungi | make cloud, point shade at cloud' | 19:18 |
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| mordred | I fully support the use of devstack nodes to test infra uses of openstacks | 19:19 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Swift logs) | 19:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Swift logs) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:19 | |
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| jeblair | sorry, late on the topic switch there :) | 19:19 |
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| * mordred hands jeblair a sad looking bowl of alfalfa | 19:19 | |
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| * jeblair ruminates | 19:20 | |
| jeblair | mrmartin: did you want to talk about askbot? | 19:20 |
| mrmartin | yeap | 19:20 |
| mrmartin | just a short comment here | 19:20 |
| jeblair | 19:20 < jeblair> mrmartin: did you want to talk about askbot? | 19:20 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Askbot migration) | 19:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Askbot migration) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:20 | |
| zaro | is swift log something we can setup for review-dev as well? | 19:20 |
| mrmartin | ok, I'll be quick | 19:21 |
| clarkb | zaro: it should be completely independent of review-dev | 19:21 |
| clarkb | zaro: it is for zuul jobs | 19:21 |
| mrmartin | so we have an issue with actual ask.o.o google auth, because it is deprecated, and need to change to g+ | 19:21 |
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| clarkb | mrmartin: specifically openid right? | 19:21 |
| zaro | clarkb: we can talk about it later since topic has turned. | 19:22 |
| mrmartin | clarkb: yeap | 19:22 |
| mrmartin | so we the askbot-devel (which is a remote github repo independent from us) contains all of the patches now | 19:22 |
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| mrmartin | but as we discussed previously, we need to consume askbot-devel from this github repo directly, which requires a lot of changes in puppet-askbot module | 19:23 |
| clarkb | mrmartin: the big difference being pypi release vs source install? | 19:23 |
| mrmartin | and to make the story nice, I was running into different issues that was related to askbot release management and the missing Q/A | 19:23 |
| mrmartin | clarkb: yes | 19:24 |
| jeblair | mrmartin: would they be so kind as to make a release? | 19:25 |
| fungi | sounds like our askbot dev/sandbox server is going to turn into upstream askbot qa | 19:25 |
| mordred | fungi: it won't be the first project that's the case for | 19:25 |
| jeblair | fungi: it won't be a first for openstack :/ | 19:25 |
| mordred | wow | 19:25 |
| fungi | hah | 19:25 |
| mrmartin | jeblair: last time we agreed to use master branch and feature / development branch to separate the testing and release branches | 19:26 |
| mrmartin | so the actual puppet-askbot covers that | 19:26 |
| jeblair | oh ok | 19:26 |
| fungi | mrmartin: well, that was for the askbot-theme repo, right? | 19:26 |
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| fungi | (or whatever it's called) | 19:26 |
| mrmartin | yeah, askbot-theme was the easy part | 19:26 |
| mrmartin | but we are doing the same for askbot-devel (the external one) | 19:26 |
| jeblair | http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/puppet-askbot/tree/manifests/init.pp#n59 | 19:27 |
| mrmartin | so we don't need to push the version numbers of pip packages for every release | 19:27 |
| jeblair | right now it only installs askbot via pip | 19:27 |
| mrmartin | until the package maintainer keeps that policy | 19:27 |
| mrmartin | yes | 19:27 |
| mrmartin | so it is a major change, and it was the reason the I commented out all the askbot related resource in the current ask.o.o manifests | 19:27 |
| mrmartin | and it is a great momemnt to change from precise to trusty | 19:28 |
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| jeblair | i'm starting to lose the narrative thread here... is there a proposal we should be discussing? | 19:29 |
| mrmartin | so first we can deploy the askbot-staging.o.o based on new manifests, and if it works well, it is easy to upgrade the ask.o.o site | 19:29 |
| fungi | i'm a little worried about trying to arrange another askbot production server migration in the next few days before so many of us pack up and ship out to vancouver | 19:29 |
| fungi | but staging seems doable | 19:29 |
| mrmartin | I'm sure we cannot to do the prod server migration before the summit | 19:29 |
| clarkb | its also worth pointing out that issues like this are why we gave up on askbot in the past | 19:29 |
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| clarkb | its great that we are motivated to help fix things so ++ on making stuff go | 19:30 |
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| mrmartin | so the question here, fungi, do you have an idea how to deliver the askbot patches with google-plus auth changes within a reasonable time? | 19:30 |
| mrmartin | I vote to keep the actual workflow, and deploy askbot-staging before the summit if we can, and do the prod migration after summit | 19:31 |
| fungi | i guess it depends on how we define reasonable | 19:31 |
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| mrmartin | :) | 19:31 |
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| fungi | that seems like a timeframe i can help with | 19:31 |
| jeblair | okay, so let me see if i can summarize: needed patches are in the upstream askbot repo. they refuse to make a release. you think the current state of the askbot upstream repo is not production ready. you want to deploy from git on the staging site. then you want to later deploy from git (what version? some tested hash?) on the production site. | 19:31 |
| fungi | i wanted to get back to reviewing your outstanding puppet patches for teh dev server today | 19:31 |
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| * nibalizer also has the askbot puppet patches next in the stack of things to review | 19:32 | |
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| mrmartin | jeblair: we deploy the master branch from askbot-devel repo, and they'll deliver dev patches into a separate branch | 19:32 |
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| mrmartin | so we can support rolling releases this way, and we don't need to handle the specific version numbers or tags for every new production grade release | 19:33 |
| fungi | so basically "master" is intended to be their stable branch upstream, sounds like | 19:33 |
| mrmartin | yes | 19:33 |
| jeblair | ok, fwiw, we can deploy the latest pip release too | 19:33 |
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| jeblair | so deploying from git is not required in order to have auto rolling upgrades | 19:34 |
| jeblair | deploying from git is fine if that's what we want to do, just wanted to make sure we weren't doing it solely because we didn't want to bump version numbers | 19:34 |
| mrmartin | ok, but with this suggesting we'll deploy from git for staging and pip for production? | 19:34 |
| mrmartin | I support to deploy from a single source | 19:34 |
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| mrmartin | ok. | 19:35 |
| fungi | jeblair: keep in mind they're not "our" version numbers or "our" repos or "our" packages on pypi | 19:35 |
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| jeblair | fungi: i understand | 19:35 |
| mrmartin | I know, but the same is true for pypi | 19:35 |
| jeblair | we should deploy from whatever is appropriate for the project | 19:35 |
| fungi | so it sounds like we want to deploy from git to get fixes which are not in the release packages | 19:35 |
| mrmartin | so it will work until the app maintainer keeps the policy of master / feature branch commit | 19:35 |
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| jeblair | i was specifically responding to the idea that we should use git because mrmartin did not want to bump version numbers | 19:36 |
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| jeblair | if "upstream git master" is actually "the maintained stable distribution of askbot", that's fine. i have no idea. :) | 19:36 |
| fungi | oh, got it. i interpreted that as we wanted to deploy from git because evgeny doesn't want to bump version numbers | 19:36 |
| mrmartin | to clarify I don't have any problem with version numbers, I have a problem with a different method of deployment of staging and prod servers | 19:36 |
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| jeblair | mrmartin: okay, so you want to deploy both sites from git. do you want both to track git master? | 19:37 |
| mrmartin | jeblair: yes, so it's not an openstack project, and we just have a little influence what happens there | 19:38 |
| fungi | got it. so if he's at least tagging versions in git and those are versions we want to use, it's easy to use one mechanism to deploy from a tag name or a branch or a specific sha | 19:38 |
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| mrmartin | no, the staging will track git / feature /development branch, and prod will track the master | 19:38 |
| mrmartin | but it is up to us, because the Vcsrepo gives us the freedom to select between tags or master branch | 19:39 |
| jeblair | okay. i am surprised that the outcome of a discussion around whether askbot upstream can be relied upon to make reliable stable releases is "production should continuously track upstream master", but i will take your word for it :) | 19:39 |
| fungi | that seems fine to me. it's not dissimilar to how we're consuming etherpad | 19:39 |
| mrmartin | I've spent the last two weeks to remove bugs from the new release and reverse engineer why some non-documented config setting was changed | 19:39 |
| jeblair | and yeah, if/when it breaks, we can always pin a tag or commit | 19:39 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:39 |
| mrmartin | yes | 19:40 |
| fungi | i mean, it's certainly not an ideal development model, but we're not the upstream devs | 19:40 |
| mrmartin | it is not an ideal development model, I agree, but that's we have actually | 19:40 |
| jeblair | #agreed switch puppet-askbot to deploy from git | 19:40 |
| jeblair | yeah? ^ | 19:40 |
| mrmartin | in an ideal world I like to move-in the entire project under our gating / code review system, or build-up a proper governance model for the project | 19:41 |
| mrmartin | yeap | 19:41 |
| fungi | also having it deployed from vcsrepo in puppet makes it marginally easier for us to switch to a fork of the project if we absolutely have to | 19:41 |
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| jeblair | #agreed switch askbot-staging to CD from upstream git development branch | 19:41 |
| jeblair | #agreed switch askbot production to CD from upstream git master branch (some time after openstack summit) | 19:41 |
| jeblair | i have all that right? | 19:41 |
| mrmartin | ok, great, thanks | 19:41 |
| fungi | that looks correct to me | 19:42 |
| jeblair | mrmartin: thanks, i think this discussion was really helpful | 19:42 |
| jeblair | anything else on askbot? | 19:42 |
| mrmartin | and deploy the askbot-staging if we can before the summit :) | 19:42 |
| jeblair | right; time permitting :) | 19:43 |
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| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Upgrading Gerrit) | 19:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Upgrading Gerrit) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:44 | |
| jeblair | so, i reckon we ought to chat about this | 19:44 |
| jeblair | as fungi said: "this did not work as planned" | 19:44 |
| * fungi sighs | 19:44 | |
| jeblair | from my pov, we're safely back on 2.8, and we are not under high pressure to upgrade immediately | 19:44 |
| zaro | no response from mailing list yet | 19:45 |
| mordred | sufferring is defined as reality not meeting pre-conceived expectations | 19:45 |
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| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 19:45 |
| clarkb | jeblair: yup, stevebaker ran into some trouble though, was hoping stevebaker would respond to the upgrade/downgrade thread with details but I didn't see that | 19:45 |
| jeblair | so i think the next steps are to reproduce the problem out of production, and when that happens, we can develop/confirm a fix, then talk about trying it again. | 19:45 |
| mordred | agree | 19:45 |
| zaro | any aftermath() from downgrade that i don't know of? | 19:45 |
| fungi | one of the nova devs mentioned to me last night that the impact was "barely noticed" so maybe we do a much better job of shielding our dev community from this sort of havoc than we think we do at least | 19:45 |
| jeblair | clarkb: er, do we have _any_ details on that trouble? | 19:46 |
| clarkb | zaro: stevebaker does not have a working web client | 19:46 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: from what I could gather late last night when logged in stevebaker's web client throws and exception and does nothing | 19:46 |
| mordred | I had some ideas on some ways in which we might want to structure review-dev to accomplish this - I will write them up in a spec | 19:46 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: he thought it may be because he had made settings changes to his account on the 2.10 side but looking at the accounts table where that appeared to be stored I didn't see anything off | 19:47 |
| jeblair | fungi: yeah, but i know that a significant number of old changes were causing complete failures, and that in turn was taking out dashboards, queries, etc; so i think our state on 2.10 was unsustainable in the long term | 19:47 |
| jeblair | mordred: thanks | 19:47 |
| jeblair | i'm glad that people were able to get some work done while we futzed with it though :) | 19:47 |
| zaro | mordred: clarkb and i discussed putting copying data from review to review-dev. | 19:48 |
| fungi | jeblair: no question there, just saying i feel a little bit better about the actual perceived impact | 19:48 |
| mordred | zaro: yup. I agree with that | 19:48 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: maybe someone else can look at that row in the accounts table and tell me if they notice anything off? | 19:49 |
| zaro | i should clarify, we planned to copy over all the data with passwords removed. | 19:49 |
| clarkb | I basically compared my account to stevebaker's | 19:49 |
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| fungi | oh, as far as dumping production data, i did successfully script stripping out the http passwords from a mysqldump at one point. i can dig that back up | 19:50 |
| fungi | if it's of potential help | 19:50 |
| clarkb | fungi: I think that would help yes | 19:51 |
| zaro | also might need to simulate activity on review-dev somehow. | 19:51 |
| jeblair | i think a quick spec for how to reconfigure review-dev would be good -- there are things we can do in the current setup that we may not be able to with a production copy, and vice versa | 19:51 |
| jeblair | so would be good to get all on the same page there | 19:51 |
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| zaro | ++ | 19:51 |
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| jeblair | and sounds like that's the next step for this effort | 19:52 |
| fungi | generating a lot of load is probably not hard. simulating the nature of our production load is probably not going to be feasible but hopefully also unnecessary to reproduce the error | 19:52 |
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| zaro | should we hold off putting review data on review-dev until spec is reviewed? | 19:52 |
| jeblair | anyway, thanks to everyone that worked on the upgrade, and sorry it didn't work out | 19:52 |
| clarkb | oh maybe we can diff stevebaker's account row between previous 2.8 state and current | 19:53 |
| clarkb | mordred: ^ maybe you can point me at where the old copy is | 19:53 |
| jeblair | zaro: if we can, or at least let's not permanently delete anything from review-dev yet | 19:53 |
| fungi | zaro: i think we probably should hold off, yes, we want to make sure we don't cause any information leakage or make a nuisance out of it | 19:53 |
| mordred | clarkb: it's in root's home dir | 19:53 |
| clarkb | mordred: thanks | 19:54 |
| zaro | roger that | 19:54 |
| jeblair | #topic Open discussion | 19:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:54 | |
| ttx | jeblair: do you plan to create skeletons for all etherpadds or shall moderators create each ? | 19:54 |
| ttx | (infra track session etherpads) | 19:54 |
| jeblair | probably goes without saying, but just in case, i don't think we'll have an infra meeting next week :) | 19:54 |
| pleia2 | :) | 19:54 |
| nibalizer | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/178887/ hasn't converged so everyone go weigh in on that | 19:55 |
| clarkb | it sounds like most of the momentum for puppet functional testing is behind beaker. Thats fine but one of the first things we will need to solve is how to configure module repos such that puppet tests the correct stuff in the gate and on a developers laptop | 19:55 |
| zaro | clarkb: so what i meant was that logs on review-dev aren't accessible from gerrit. would like to see that work. | 19:55 |
| jeblair | ttx: oh good question; moderators i think | 19:55 |
| pabelanger | quick note from me, grafyaml is shaping up nice. Have a review up for it to pull under -infra: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/182045/ | 19:55 |
| ttx | ok, will create mine tomorrow | 19:55 |
| jeblair | ttx: is there a summit etherpad page yet? | 19:55 |
| pabelanger | still need to do governance review | 19:55 |
| ttx | yes | 19:55 |
| clarkb | jeblair: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/181694/ is an update to zuul-cloner that I think facilitates zuul-cloners use for beaker setup. Other reviews would be great too | 19:55 |
| ttx | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Summit/Liberty/Etherpads | 19:56 |
| clarkb | zaro: I don't understand what you mean by that | 19:56 |
| clarkb | zaro: are we talking about job logs? or are we talking about logs for the gerrit service itself? | 19:56 |
| jeblair | ttx, mordred, clarkb: if you have a moment to create etherpads for the fishbowl sessions and add them to https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Summit/Liberty/Etherpads that would be great | 19:56 |
| clarkb | jeblair: can do | 19:56 |
| Rockyg | query on next steps to get refstack.org up and maintained(well, monitored) in infra. krotscheck helped get the webserver together and it's running on refstack.net (davidlenwell's vm) right now. | 19:56 |
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| fungi | Rockyg: a puppet module which deploys the service would be the next step | 19:57 |
| mordred | Rockyg: general steps are that we need to get the dns transferred to jbryce if it's not already, then we'll want to get the puppet modules for running the webserver info infra repos | 19:57 |
| krotscheck | fungi: Already done. | 19:57 |
| jeblair | Rockyg: if you could write a spec for infra-specs that would be great :) | 19:57 |
| mordred | woot | 19:57 |
| fungi | mordred: dns looks taken care of now (for refstack.org) | 19:57 |
| mordred | fungi: awesome | 19:58 |
| Rockyg | kewl. And the foundation has the dns | 19:58 |
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| fungi | krotscheck: oh! awesome. i somehow missed the puppet module | 19:58 |
| krotscheck | fungi: It's not a project yet. Let me go make that pull request. | 19:58 |
| krotscheck | (it's in github) | 19:58 |
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| jeblair | Rockyg: so the steps are: infra-spec, create puppet module, then we deploy it | 19:59 |
| Rockyg | Also something to think about. We need another dns (in one of the reviews, don't know which at the moment) and we might consider coming up with a process for foundation/infra server stuff | 19:59 |
| zaro | clarkb: job logs | 19:59 |
| Rockyg | And will create the infras spec shortly. Probably not ready before after summit. | 19:59 |
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| jeblair | Rockyg: well, we have a process for creating servers: http://ci.openstack.org/sysadmin.html#adding-a-new-server | 20:00 |
| jeblair | that's kind of our existential purpose :) | 20:00 |
| * fungi is a machine that makes more machines | 20:00 | |
| mordred | I like questioning my existential purpose | 20:00 |
| Rockyg | jeblair: cool. Just thinking about when the ownership is cross infra and foundation | 20:01 |
| jeblair | (it could probably use an update; i'm working on that) | 20:01 |
| jeblair | Rockyg: oh, we don't think in those terms | 20:01 |
| jeblair | Rockyg: the project owns its own destiny | 20:01 |
| jeblair | we enable the project to run itself :) | 20:01 |
| Rockyg | Oh, good. Perhaps we can discuss more at the summit. | 20:01 |
| fungi | Rockyg: the foundation doesn't have any sysadmins. they're just a foundation. they employ a couple sysadmins and donate them to the infra team | 20:01 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 20:01 |
| Rockyg | Uh, but we're only stackforge so far? | 20:01 |
| mordred | Rockyg: doesn't matter - we're all one big happy family | 20:02 |
| ttx | ... | 20:02 |
| Rockyg | and have a ways to go to get to big tent, but we are looking at what we need to get there :-) | 20:02 |
| lifeless | o/ | 20:02 |
| jaypipes | do we have a TC meeting now? | 20:02 |
| jeblair | and we should let the projcet run its governance now :) | 20:02 |
| lifeless | erm | 20:02 |
| mordred | jeblair: bah | 20:02 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 12 20:02:29 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-05-12-19.01.html | 20:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-05-12-19.01.txt | 20:02 |
| fungi | Rockyg: i believe the stackforge legacy of refstack to be an unfortunate footnote in its history, from an old regime which had different goals | 20:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-05-12-19.01.log.html | 20:02 |
| lifeless | yes, thats what I was expecting. | 20:02 |
| ttx | Anyone here for the TC meeting ? | 20:02 |
| russellb | o/ | 20:02 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:02 |
| lifeless | o/ | 20:02 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 20:02 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:02 |
| annegentle | here | 20:02 |
| jaypipes | o../ | 20:02 |
| Rockyg | Thanks fungi! and all | 20:02 |
| flaper87 | jaypipes: long arm? | 20:02 |
| annegentle | jaypipes: long arm | 20:02 |
| annegentle | hehe | 20:02 |
| dtroyer | o/ | 20:03 |
| flaper87 | LOL | 20:03 |
| * devananda lurks | 20:03 | |
| jaypipes | flaper87: of the LAW. | 20:03 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 12 20:03:06 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:03 |
| ttx | Today's meeting agenda: | 20:03 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:03 |
| ttx | #topic Update tags in projects.yaml based on validate_tags | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Update tags in projects.yaml based on validate_tags (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:03 | |
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| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/179269 | 20:03 |
| ttx | Let's start easy | 20:03 |
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| ttx | I think all of those make sense. | 20:03 |
| ttx | We should probably have some bot to propose those regularly, instead of relying on Joe | 20:03 |
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| jogo | ttx: ++ | 20:04 |
| mordred | o/ | 20:04 |
| jeblair | jogo isn't a bot? | 20:04 |
| ttx | We already have 7 +1s so I'll approve it soon, unless someone objects | 20:04 |
| jogo | jeblair: not yet | 20:04 |
| jaypipes | jeblair: :) | 20:04 |
| dims | o/ | 20:04 |
| annegentle | jogo: for the commit message, you have for openstack-manuals "Ignored since has stable/juno just not Kilo" meaning, not changing the tag since we intend to have stable/kilo? | 20:04 |
| krotscheck | o/ | 20:05 |
| ttx | So, waiting 30 more seconds and will approve | 20:05 |
| jogo | annegentle: correct, I said that under the assumption that you will soon have a stable/kilo branch. since my understanding is docs are released after | 20:05 |
| annegentle | jogo: yep, sounds good | 20:05 |
| ttx | ok approved | 20:06 |
| jaypipes | wait! | 20:06 |
| jaypipes | just kiddin. | 20:06 |
| ttx | #topic Add tc-approved-release tag for trademarkable projects | 20:06 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Add tc-approved-release tag for trademarkable projects (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:06 | |
| ttx | jaypipes: save you energy for the next topics :) | 20:06 |
| jaypipes | he | 20:06 |
| ttx | For this topic and the next, I don't expect final resolution this week, and I think we can discuss some of it in-person next week | 20:07 |
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| annegentle | and your long arm | 20:07 |
| ttx | So I'll aggressively timebox the discussion on those so that we have time to cover other topics | 20:07 |
| ttx | So... tc-approved-release | 20:07 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/179799 | 20:07 |
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| ttx | To summarize the discussion so far, I think the tension here is between two approaches | 20:07 |
| ttx | dhellmann defines a set of rules that may be used as a "TC stamp" filter on top of the natural deliverables of OpenStack project teams | 20:08 |
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| ttx | jaypipes fears we'll soon be back into judging projects value, something we've been trying to get out of | 20:08 |
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| ttx | Personally I would be fine with the 'tc-approved-release' just designating all the code repositories that are server API stuff produced by OpenStack Project Teams | 20:08 |
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| ttx | That said, I think nothing in Doug's text really prevents us from doing that "inclusive" approach | 20:08 |
| jaypipes | ttx: the upgradeability thing would. | 20:08 |
| ttx | In particular, "the TC considers the project suitable for consideration for trademark use" is definitely compatible with an inclusive approach. | 20:08 |
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| sdague | so, the point of this tag is from it the board can pick stuff for trademarking, right? | 20:09 |
| dhellmann | yes | 20:09 |
| jaypipes | yes | 20:09 |
| lifeless | tc-eligible-trademarks ? | 20:09 |
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| dhellmann | if we want to defer all of that decision to the board, then I'm ok with something like what ttx proposes | 20:09 |
| russellb | it's the superset of projects used when developing commercial trademark programs | 20:09 |
| ttx | sdague: the point of the tag is to replace the defcore use for "integrated release" | 20:09 |
| dhellmann | lifeless: I chose the name based on the way it is described in the bylaws | 20:09 |
| dhellmann | lifeless: I hate the name, but consistency | 20:09 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: yes, I saw that prose. | 20:09 |
| ttx | they used to pick within the integrated release, they will pick within the tc-approved-release tag instead | 20:10 |
| sdague | does it make sense to let the tail wag the dog a little here and say, "hey board, what do you actually want in this" and we then decide if we're cool with that answer and send it back as such? | 20:10 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: I value consistency less than clarity here, since none of the other tags are mapped to the bylaws. | 20:10 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: there's nothing to be consistent *with* | 20:10 |
| jaypipes | sdague: we did try that last year, like three times, remember? :) | 20:10 |
| zaneb | I'm wondering if the requirements could be tags rather having a separate set of requirements to judge | 20:10 |
| sdague | because, honestly, I feel like my opinion of "trade markable" seems pretty useless | 20:10 |
| jaypipes | zaneb: that is *precisely* what I was after. | 20:10 |
| russellb | sdague: indeed, wait for demand ... it'd be nova, glance, keystone, swift, cinder ... something like that | 20:11 |
| jgriffith | sdague: haven't we tried that already though? | 20:11 |
| ttx | Hmm, taking a step back for a moment | 20:11 |
| lifeless | jaypipes: zaneb: +1 from me | 20:11 |
| dhellmann | so we need to decide how much we care about the trademark decisions, and whether we want our recommendations for trademark use to reflect just community participation or also some level of quality -- I expect defcore to apply the latter filter whether we do or not | 20:11 |
| jgriffith | sdague: not saying I disagree, just saying historically that hasn't worked so well | 20:11 |
| sdague | jgriffith: no, I don't think we did, I thought we said "we're not culling the list for you" | 20:11 |
| ttx | We are in this situation because we ended up designating the full "integrated release" as trademarkable components rather than a subset of it, if mordred remembers | 20:11 |
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| ttx | the decision back then was... | 20:11 |
| mordred | I think we have a set right now - it's what has been the integrated release | 20:11 |
| dhellmann | lifeless: I am trying to be consistent with the way the board will talk about this list of projects | 20:11 |
| jgriffith | dhellmann: what if we just have trademarked tag and the board is responsible for assigning it :) | 20:11 |
| mordred | I'd suggest that we don't change it | 20:11 |
| ttx | that we should not pick out a subset | 20:11 |
| russellb | mordred: ++ | 20:12 |
| sdague | mordred: sure | 20:12 |
| ttx | since all of it is "openstack projects" | 20:12 |
| mordred | and that in the future we don't change it until someone makes a request | 20:12 |
| annegentle | zaneb: I wondered that too, but I think the tags inform the board's selections, and the point is having a wide base to select from, I believe. | 20:12 |
| flaper87 | mordred: ++ | 20:12 |
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| russellb | really don't think it's worth wasting too much time on this | 20:12 |
| mordred | and at that point, consider that request like people | 20:12 |
| sdague | mordred: right, that's where I was headed, but you got there more clearly | 20:12 |
| mordred | but for now | 20:12 |
| russellb | defcore isn't going to move beyond what was in integrated release *any* time soon | 20:12 |
| dhellmann | mordred: yes, that's fine. I'm trying to define some set of things we'd evaluate at that point | 20:12 |
| mordred | I doubt any human is going to request new projects be added to the set for a WHILE | 20:12 |
| mordred | dhellmann: totally | 20:12 |
| russellb | mordred: agree | 20:12 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: so, I *don't want* a tag that says 'approved' unless thats actually what it means. | 20:12 |
| jeblair | mordred: hrm. i would expect it almost immediately. :) | 20:12 |
| lifeless | IF we are going to be approving, not just passing-through, fine. | 20:12 |
| russellb | jeblair: what would you expect? | 20:13 |
| lifeless | doing otherwise sends entirely confusing messages everywhere. | 20:13 |
| sdague | jeblair: what would you expect the board wants to build a trademark on? | 20:13 |
| jeblair | russellb: someone to ask for an expansion of the tc-approved release. | 20:13 |
| russellb | adding to the set is pretty meaningless unless defcore is doing something with it | 20:13 |
| lifeless | and education 1000 contributors is harder than educating 20 board members | 20:13 |
| dhellmann | russellb: true, but if we're the first hurdle expect to be jumped | 20:13 |
| jaypipes | lifeless: you sure about that? ;) | 20:13 |
| flaper87 | lifeless: agreed, I cought up with the review earlier this week and if it weren't for dhellmann's note, I'd have been really confused | 20:13 |
| ttx | mordred: then how about a simplified tag definition that says "this tag describes the a superset of trademarkable projects as requested in the bylaws" ? | 20:13 |
| jeblair | i would expect the big-tent projects to ask for that, and then for us to be in the position that we were previously if we set ourselves up as gatekeepers. | 20:13 |
| lifeless | jaypipes: well, they did vote me in. So no. | 20:13 |
| jaypipes | heeh | 20:13 |
| flaper87 | ttx: like it | 20:14 |
| mordred | jeblair: sorry - by "people" | 20:14 |
| ttx | I want to remove any other cumulative meaning, otherwise we are back at square one | 20:14 |
| sdague | jeblair: so, being in that tag is only useful if there is a trademark program on the horizon. So I believe we limit requests to modify it from the board | 20:14 |
| mordred | I meant the Board or the User Committee | 20:14 |
| jaypipes | jeblair: that is precisely my worry, as I noted on the patch comments. | 20:14 |
| jeblair | mordred: OUCH. | 20:14 |
| mordred | unless the board or the user committee requests of us that we add a new project | 20:14 |
| mordred | I'd suggest taht we not | 20:14 |
| mordred | that way someone like Tim Bell can say to the user committee -"hey, we'd REALLY like it if magnum were considered a reuqired thing" | 20:15 |
| mordred | which is great input for us | 20:15 |
| russellb | yes, that's a good idea | 20:15 |
| russellb | we really don't want to be wasting our time on this | 20:15 |
| mordred | I think removing projects we have now is rife with peril and not worth it | 20:15 |
| jeblair | mordred: my lack of personhood aside, that's an interesting approach. so we act with discretion, but only accept input from certain channels. | 20:15 |
| flaper87 | mordred: ++ (again) | 20:15 |
| sdague | it's not even about being a required thing | 20:15 |
| ttx | Frankly, I don't think that matters that much. | 20:15 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 20:15 |
| lifeless | mordred: one caveat | 20:15 |
| mordred | so that we don't become uber gatekeepers again | 20:16 |
| mordred | which is very borin | 20:16 |
| lifeless | what if e.g. nova and neutron and cinder factor out their quota stuff to a new service | 20:16 |
| lifeless | we'd include that as its a transitive dep? | 20:16 |
| lifeless | or we'd consider it plumbing and just dep on it, not trademark it? | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | mordred: how about if we make that the defcore committee, since we're already discussing these issues with that group? | 20:16 |
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| mordred | lifeless: I'd say one of us should personally nudge the user committee to get them to ask us to add it | 20:16 |
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| mordred | dhellmann: sure | 20:16 |
| mordred | I'm fine with anywhere | 20:16 |
| mordred | just saying I think the world of projects asking for blessing is a fail | 20:16 |
| sdague | lifeless: I do not believe there will be an OpenStack Quota Service (tm) certification effort | 20:16 |
| lifeless | mordred: I just want to be sure we don't setup a blockade to such improvements | 20:16 |
| mordred | lifeless: totally | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | mordred: and would we just always agree? or are there conditions under which we would not? | 20:17 |
| lifeless | sdague: one hopes ;) | 20:17 |
| mordred | dhellmann: no, I think we can TOTALLY say no | 20:17 |
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| sdague | this tag means nothing about anything except trademarks | 20:17 |
| dtroyer | I think saying know is where we add value to the whole process… | 20:17 |
| sdague | it doesn't mean what's required in an installation | 20:17 |
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| mordred | dhellmann: I just think someone other than projects looking for validation needs to be the instigator | 20:17 |
| mordred | sdague: ++ | 20:17 |
| ttx | sdague: doesn't even mean trademarks, since it's a superset | 20:17 |
| lifeless | so if its a superset | 20:17 |
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| ttx | it's just a safety net | 20:17 |
| russellb | and it's also only commercial trademark programs, nothing to do with community use of the trademark | 20:17 |
| lifeless | where is the tag that is just trademarks? | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | mordred: do we want to list any details about those conditions, or just leave it up to the discretion of the tc at the time? | 20:17 |
| ttx | lifeless: not ours | 20:18 |
| russellb | ttx: safety net is a good summary | 20:18 |
| russellb | sanity net | 20:18 |
| zaneb | lifeless: that's the board's decision | 20:18 |
| dhellmann | lifeless: there's a whole repository for the defcore work | 20:18 |
| lifeless | I know | 20:18 |
| lifeless | jeez leading questions that get literal answers | 20:18 |
| ttx | the tc-approved-release is a safety net so that defcore doesn't require something we would not consider part of openstack | 20:18 |
| dhellmann | lifeless: we have a responsibility under the new bylaws to produce this list. The other lists are someone else's job, so I didn't tackle them. | 20:19 |
| mordred | dhellmann: I honestly think we should cross the bridge when we get there | 20:19 |
| ttx | the odds that that would happen at this point are pretty nil | 20:19 |
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| ttx | but the safety net is still described in the bylwas | 20:19 |
| mordred | dhellmann: we have SO MUCH WORK to do before we run out of defcore-able capabilities that aren't in the thing yet | 20:19 |
| sdague | mordred: yes, let's lazy evaluate here | 20:19 |
| dhellmann | mordred: I'm ok with some sort of vague "we'll think about it" statement, but I suppose jaypipes wouldn't be | 20:19 |
| mordred | that we can flesh them out for a while before we get to a burning need to accept somethign new | 20:19 |
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| mordred | dhellmann: jaypipes loves those statements | 20:19 |
| jogo | russellb: that isn't correct, the bylaws don't distinguish between commercial and non-commercial now | 20:19 |
| * mordred hands jaypipes a nice warm ham | 20:19 | |
| * jaypipes still struggling to read back... :*( | 20:20 | |
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| jogo | russellb: but it is implied | 20:20 |
| dhellmann | I could even phrase it as "We don't know the criteria we would use, yet, so we'll have to figure out what to do at the time." or some such | 20:20 |
| russellb | jogo: yes it is, there's a very nice summary from jonathan in a ML post | 20:20 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: just punt entirely. | 20:20 |
| dhellmann | lifeless: what form would that take? | 20:20 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: 'this is the set of projects the board may choose to trademark, as decided by the TC.' | 20:20 |
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| ttx | lifeless: that is decent punting | 20:20 |
| lifeless | how do things get added? ask the tc. | 20:21 |
| dhellmann | here's my understanding of the current proposal: Only DefCore can ask that this tag be applied to a project. We will figure out what to do when they do that. | 20:21 |
| lifeless | how do things get removed? ask the tc. | 20:21 |
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| * jaypipes believes this particular conversation would be best held in person on Sunday... | 20:21 | |
| dhellmann | we have to work out processes and policies for removal with defcore, so that's already punted | 20:21 |
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| lifeless | dhellmann: thats setting a policy we havent had previously (because previously we decided what was integrated) | 20:21 |
| zaneb | dhellmann: ++ | 20:21 |
| jaypipes | very difficult to follow the high speed interleaves. | 20:21 |
| dhellmann | lifeless: that is the policy in the bylaws | 20:21 |
| russellb | jaypipes: yeah. | 20:21 |
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| flaper87 | jaypipes: ++ | 20:21 |
| ttx | Yep, and I don't think we'll finalize that discussion in meeting | 20:21 |
| russellb | jaypipes: i've kinda given up | 20:22 |
| dhellmann | sorry, jaypipes, I'm trying to reply to everyone | 20:22 |
| ttx | I'd like us to move to next topic | 20:22 |
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| lifeless | dhellmann: last I read it the TC decides on the integrated release | 20:22 |
| * flaper87 will be a bit late on Sunday but there's dinner after, right? :D | 20:22 | |
| dhellmann | k | 20:22 |
| ttx | we can finalize next week | 20:22 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: unless you switched subject mid-stream. | 20:22 |
| jaypipes | dhellmann: no need to say sorry whatsoever :) I understand completely. | 20:22 |
| mordred | jaypipes: ++ | 20:22 |
| lifeless | or is that object ? :) | 20:22 |
| mordred | lifeless: preposition | 20:22 |
| dhellmann | lifeless: I haven't ever been talking about the integrated release | 20:22 |
| jaypipes | speaking of interleaving... let's ditch our threading model! ... discuss! | 20:22 |
| * mordred interleaves jaypipes | 20:22 | |
| lifeless | jaypipes: thats much more fun | 20:23 |
| jaypipes | hehe | 20:23 |
| * dhellmann deadlocks | 20:23 | |
| lifeless | dhellmann: ok, I think I need to review on the review. | 20:23 |
| ttx | OK, I suggest we keep the discussion open on that and move to next fun topic | 20:23 |
| lifeless | so we can move on | 20:23 |
| jaypipes | ++ | 20:23 |
| dhellmann | ++ | 20:23 |
| * flaper87 kills all the threads and asks the scheduler (ttx) to switch | 20:23 | |
| jeblair | this meeting is kind of a bloodbath | 20:23 |
| lifeless | trampoline time | 20:23 |
| ttx | also aggressively timeboxed so that we get a feel before we discuss more directly next week | 20:23 |
| ttx | #topic Add compute kernel tag | 20:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add compute kernel tag (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:23 | |
| zaneb | ttx: because the next topic is sure to go better ;) | 20:23 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/180112 | 20:23 |
| annegentle | it's like a ladder or hill :) | 20:24 |
| ttx | On this one there seems to be two areas of tension | 20:24 |
| sdague | yeh, so... vibrant discussion | 20:24 |
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| ttx | First one is more around which use case the "kernel" should serve | 20:24 |
| annegentle | level up! | 20:24 |
| ttx | ephemeral compute (keystone / nova / glance) | 20:24 |
| ttx | or non-ephemeral-compute (keystone / nova / glance / cinder / designate?) | 20:24 |
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| ttx | I don't have a strong opinion on it, but I think I'd prefer if we could have a single one | 20:24 |
| ttx | Also it feels a bit weird to me to include Designate in the strongly-required set, given how few people actually implement it | 20:24 |
| annegentle | is anyone really advocating/testing no auth compute still? | 20:24 |
| ttx | I also like sdague's idea that "enhancements" replace function that already exists in the kernel with a more feature rich version | 20:24 |
| jgriffith | ttx: +1 | 20:24 |
| sdague | annegentle: no, plus I broke it last cycle probably | 20:25 |
| annegentle | sdague: nice | 20:25 |
| zaneb | does no one think that if mordred and sdague can't even agree, then there's no way that one or two use cases can represent the whole community? | 20:25 |
| ttx | Second area of tension is about the usefulness of the tag, but maybe we can come to that in a few | 20:25 |
| jeblair | designate is absolutely required for non-ephemeral compute | 20:25 |
| ttx | zaneb: the goal is not to represent the communitgy | 20:25 |
| jgriffith | jeblair: why? | 20:25 |
| devananda | zaneb: "represent the whole community" is not the point | 20:25 |
| zaneb | then maybe it should be | 20:25 |
| sdague | jeblair: so... it's not in any way integrated to nova today from what I can tell | 20:26 |
| jeblair | jgriffith: because reverse dns is required to run production systems | 20:26 |
| ttx | the goal is to describe a base set of projects to implement basic compute stuff | 20:26 |
| devananda | zaneb: the community HAS a lot of different use cases. theyre ALL valid. a single tag will never represent them all. | 20:26 |
| sdague | I did go diving looking for code | 20:26 |
| zaneb | why does it take the TC to officially designate that? | 20:26 |
| russellb | sdague: i thought it used nova notifications to do its thing | 20:26 |
| russellb | sdague: but it has been ages since i looked honestly ... | 20:26 |
| sdague | russellb: don't know, haven't ever seen it working | 20:26 |
| jgriffith | jeblair: by who's "requirements", and it doesn't have to be designate as many providers/implementors will atest | 20:26 |
| zaneb | devananda: I couldn't agree more | 20:26 |
| ttx | zaneb: it doesn't, but nobody proposed the tag, so sdague did | 20:26 |
| russellb | sdague: same here | 20:26 |
| sdague | ok, so can we discuss background, before we just go full pitchfork? | 20:27 |
| devananda | zaneb: "it's not everything to everyone" does not invalidate taking one measured step in the right direction | 20:27 |
| zaneb | ttx: so... because we can? | 20:27 |
| * jgriffith puts his torch down | 20:27 | |
| jaypipes | sdague: please do proceed. | 20:27 |
| flaper87 | sdague: go, background | 20:27 |
| mordred | jgriffith: I do not care about what non-openstack services people might want to run | 20:27 |
| mordred | my job is to talk about what a complete openstack might look like | 20:27 |
| sdague | one of the things that is really freaking our user community in the big tent is "where do I start?" | 20:27 |
| mordred | people can also run vmware instead of nova | 20:27 |
| mordred | but that doesn't mean I'm not going to advocate taht we need nova | 20:27 |
| sdague | I think it's good to have inclusiveness | 20:27 |
| ttx | mordred: let sdague talk please | 20:28 |
| mordred | oh. sorry. | 20:28 |
| sdague | however, I do think we need a reasonable starting point that can be built upon, including adding enhancements of other projects over time | 20:28 |
| ttx | sdague: also it was about the only tag the Ops really wanted defined when we discussed tags at the Ops midcycle | 20:28 |
| annegentle | ttx: that's good input | 20:29 |
| sdague | that seed corn helps all of the community get a piece of openstack up, and expand and include more of our ecosystem | 20:29 |
| jaypipes | sdague: I entirely agree with you. I just happen to disagree that this particular tag definition adds that clarity of purpose. | 20:29 |
| jgriffith | sdague: so I completely agree with your statements thus far, and have had the same feedback from deployers | 20:29 |
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| jgriffith | sdague: but I agree with jaypipes on the naming of the tg | 20:29 |
| sdague | jaypipes ok, so how would you expect to approach this? | 20:29 |
| jgriffith | tag | 20:29 |
| zaneb | sdague: "where do I start problem" is real. long-form full-sentence documentation is a better answer, because not everyone should start at the same point | 20:30 |
| sdague | this was the best idea I had so far | 20:30 |
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| mordred | I love sdague's tag | 20:30 |
| mordred | I just think it needs to be either smaller or two tags | 20:30 |
| sdague | zaneb: I think as a community we do need to say "start here" | 20:30 |
| anteaya | sdague: thank you for getting through the background on this | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | does our installation guide not already do that? | 20:30 |
| sdague | and people can be different | 20:30 |
| lifeless | FWIW, I'm +1 on having such a tag. I think the name can be tweaked though (and I am happy to bikeshed that in the review) | 20:30 |
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| flaper87 | or at the very least say: "most people start here" | 20:30 |
| sdague | it's open source, you can always be different | 20:31 |
| ttx | dhellmann: apparently not clearly enough, since Ops asked for the base seed corn too. | 20:31 |
| sdague | but providing some base guidance gets more people rolling instead of staring at a blank wall | 20:31 |
| ttx | I was surprised to see such need coming from that experienced population, but it was there | 20:31 |
| jgriffith | I guess I'm trying to figure out how this is "different" than what we "used" to call core OpenStack | 20:31 |
| dhellmann | ttx: is that a bug against the installation guide? | 20:31 |
| zaneb | sdague: long-form full-sentence documentation is still a better answer, because it contains more than 1bit of information. people can use it to figure out where to go after the starting point | 20:31 |
| jaypipes | sdague: an excellent question :) I've been pondering it most of the afternoon. I think I'd prefer to go down the route of having super-fine-grained tags for things like production maturity, deployability options, relation to other components, and then maybe have a "deploy:simple-compute" tag that is a "calculated tag" that looks at the existence of other fine-grained tags and groups things together. | 20:31 |
| jgriffith | I fully agree it's needed, valuable, important etc | 20:31 |
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| russellb | jgriffith: the old thing meant far more than an informative starting point | 20:32 |
| sdague | jaypipes: ok, so they need to build a turning complete evaluation system? | 20:32 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I'd argue it's not a bug of the install guide, it's not meant to answer that question at all | 20:32 |
| annegentle | jaypipes: hm hadn't thought about calculated tags | 20:32 |
| dhellmann | jaypipes: I find it very interesting that you want to have subjective tags for things like "maturity" :-) | 20:32 |
| sdague | because... that's not going to be confusing at all :) | 20:32 |
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| jgriffith | russellb: understood, but that's kidna what people want | 20:32 |
| dhellmann | ttx: fair | 20:32 |
| jgriffith | russellb: and it doesn't mean we can 'redefine' it either | 20:32 |
| jaypipes | sdague: no more than what dhellmann and jogo have already put together for the tags like diverse-affiliation | 20:32 |
| zaneb | ttx: question to ops was what tags to have, not best way to communicate a starting point. of course a tag was the answer | 20:33 |
| annegentle | honestly this tag would help docs scope the install guides | 20:33 |
| lifeless | jaypipes: I was thinking minimal, not simple. | 20:33 |
| lifeless | jaypipes: because simple is a lie :) | 20:33 |
| devananda | I disagre that long-form full-sentence docs are better-andtherefore-we-dont-need-simple | 20:33 |
| jaypipes | dhellmann: I don't want *us* to be that subjective body. I would prefer operators be the arbiter of maturity. | 20:33 |
| sdague | lifeless: right, minimal | 20:33 |
| devananda | which is the implication folks seem to be presenting repeatedly | 20:33 |
| jaypipes | lifeless: ok, sure. :) | 20:33 |
| devananda | I agree full docs are great and necessary | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | jaypipes: me, too! We should ask them to start a guide with this information somewhere else. :-) | 20:33 |
| ttx | zaneb: not really. Question was "do you want a base set of projects around compute defined" | 20:33 |
| devananda | but folks are looking for a clear and simple signal of what they should go read the docs about | 20:33 |
| jaypipes | dhellmann: I think that is already underway :) | 20:33 |
| sdague | right, the feedback has been long form docs do not fix this for people, they really do want minimal starting point | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | jaypipes: wonderful! | 20:33 |
| annegentle | sdague: right it's why devstack is oft-used | 20:34 |
| lifeless | can we take a step up. We have a request from the operators and broader community to document a thing which is 'minimal starting point'. | 20:34 |
| sdague | which I realize is not your pov zaneb, but it's the community feedback | 20:34 |
| dtroyer | so part of what we are trying to describe here are the technical relationships, such as to do x (say, minimal compute) you need these things | 20:34 |
| lifeless | We should document this clearly, and there is no reason to document it just one way. E.g. docs + tags + $other? | 20:34 |
| annegentle | minimal compute projects I believe | 20:34 |
| jaypipes | dhellmann: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-operators/2015-May/006881.html | 20:34 |
| lifeless | does anyone *disagree* with those two lines ?^? | 20:34 |
| annegentle | maybe also minimal storage but I wasn't in the session | 20:34 |
| jaypipes | dhellmann: and http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-operators/2015-May/006933.html | 20:34 |
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| sdague | annegentle: honestly, the ops feedback is about a compute cloud | 20:35 |
| annegentle | sdague: yeah that was my hunch | 20:35 |
| dhellmann | jaypipes: cool, I saw reed's email but hadn't seen any follow up | 20:35 |
| sdague | because swift is just swift, that's pretty clear, the batteries are all included | 20:35 |
| zaneb | sdague: right, and I'm glad that people are looking out for the present. but I think we also need to really look out for the future | 20:35 |
| annegentle | sdague: I do think storage is a great entry point | 20:35 |
| ttx | ok, 5 more minutes | 20:35 |
| flaper87 | sdague: were there OPs not running a compute cloud present? (out of curiosity) | 20:35 |
| fungi | "to do x you need y" is not something you can effectively tag if there are z ways to do x where z>1 | 20:36 |
| flaper87 | (or did we get feedback from them?) | 20:36 |
| sdague | flaper87: in phili, I don't think so | 20:36 |
| flaper87 | sdague: thnx | 20:36 |
| ttx | I want to quickly come back to the "ephemeral or persistent" question | 20:36 |
| lifeless | fungi: but thats not the request. The request is 'whats the onramp' | 20:36 |
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| devananda | lifeless: more than just "more than one way" the impression I have is that the community explicitly wants a signal and they want comprehesive docs. these are complementary, not duplicative. | 20:36 |
| lifeless | fungi: we can objectively describe that: its the minimum set, and where there are N candidates, the candidates most commonly used by peers. | 20:36 |
| ttx | I plan to go back to the same ops group and ask them which makes the most sense. I bet they will pick the most minimal set | 20:36 |
| fungi | lifeless: i was responding to dtroyer's characterization of the problem | 20:37 |
| lifeless | devananda: yes. | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | how about if we rename this tag use-case:compute-something-something and not "kernel" or "base" or whatever? | 20:37 |
| devananda | ttx: I'd vote for minimal set right now, with something like sdague 's verbiage around "enhancements" for DNS, etc | 20:37 |
| jeblair | ttx: i think that sounds like a good way forward. make sure we understand the request clearly and then satisfy it. | 20:37 |
| lifeless | yeah, thats why I want to bikeshed on the name | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | because if we're really just talking about use cases, then we'll have lots of those in parallel | 20:37 |
| devananda | ttx: and then do the same for a storage cloud + enhancements, and so on | 20:37 |
| sdague | sure, the name isn't important to me | 20:37 |
| jeblair | ttx: because i think we're doing this for the ops. | 20:37 |
| devananda | dhellmann: indeed | 20:37 |
| ttx | dhellmann: to me a kernel:foo is a use-case:mininam-foo | 20:37 |
| sdague | I think the concept of "start here" | 20:37 |
| jeblair | ttx: (and indirectly for the users) | 20:37 |
| annegentle | for ops! | 20:37 |
| ttx | minimal* | 20:37 |
| sdague | and then clear paths to upgrade features as you go in that live env | 20:38 |
| jaypipes | instead of "kernel:compute", how about something like "use-case:ephemeral-compute" or "use-case:test-and-development" or "use-case:enterprise-it"? | 20:38 |
| lifeless | ttx: kernel to me implies always-present, and consider nova-network -> neutron, its not. | 20:38 |
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| lifeless | ttx: but thats perhaps just me | 20:38 |
| edleafe | it's like we're writing a thesaurus entry for 'core' | 20:38 |
| mordred | edleafe: ++ | 20:38 |
| devananda | jaypipes: what is "enterprise-it"? :) | 20:38 |
| flaper87 | can we have more than a starting point? "For a compute based cloud start here" | 20:38 |
| jaypipes | devananda: heh, touche. | 20:38 |
| russellb | devananda: pets | 20:38 |
| sdague | jaypipes: and what if you are an org that has 2 of those needs | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | devananda: "to enterprise" is "to make excessively complex" | 20:38 |
| jgriffith | edleafe: :) | 20:39 |
| zaneb | edleafe: bingo | 20:39 |
| ttx | minimal-compute | 20:39 |
| fungi | seems like much of the objection is that these tags will be opinionated and subjective. but that really sounds like the request: "tell us what you want us to install" | 20:39 |
| lifeless | ok, you broke me. kernel:pets has my +1. | 20:39 |
| jaypipes | sdague: then you use the projects that are the union of both tags. | 20:39 |
| ttx | OK, we need to move on. Let's continue that discussion next week and the next meeting too | 20:39 |
| Rockyg | how about a tutorial for a specific,, three node (ops talks a lot about that) compute cloud? | 20:39 |
| dtroyer | fungi: which is why I want to describe things that are technical requirements + options, and not try to solve use cases | 20:39 |
| annegentle | russellb: we do that | 20:39 |
| sdague | jaypipes: well, I don't think that solves the problem. If you want to run with that approach, so be it | 20:39 |
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| annegentle | er | 20:39 |
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| zaneb | how many tags are we up to now? | 20:39 |
| annegentle | Rockyg: the Install guides have three basic architectures | 20:40 |
| lifeless | 2^15 | 20:40 |
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| russellb | zaneb: http://governance.openstack.org/reference/tags/ | 20:40 |
| jaypipes | zaneb: http://governance.openstack.org/reference/tags/ | 20:40 |
| ttx | Feel free to engage on the review | 20:40 |
| jaypipes | gah, russellb | 20:40 |
| zaneb | why not have experienced operators tell us where new operators should start, instead of the TC telling them? | 20:40 |
| * jaypipes shakes fist | 20:40 | |
| Rockyg | annegentle: but a tutorial format? The ops guys want a useful "my first cloud" to test | 20:40 |
| sdague | zaneb: right, which would basically be this list | 20:40 |
| dhellmann | zaneb: see the 2 email threads jaypipes linked earlier | 20:40 |
| zaneb | russellb: I meant proposed in this meeting | 20:40 |
| anteaya | ops people perhaps? | 20:40 |
| sdague | it's consolidated down from that feedback | 20:40 |
| ttx | Please -- let's switch to next topic | 20:40 |
| dhellmann | ++ | 20:41 |
| ttx | We con't finish this one today | 20:41 |
| flaper87 | ++ | 20:41 |
| jaypipes | k | 20:41 |
| ttx | #topic Workgroup reports | 20:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Workgroup reports (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:41 | |
| ttx | * Communications workgroup | 20:41 |
| ttx | annegentle, flaper87: how is that going? | 20:41 |
| annegentle | ttx: I've put together a draft comm plan | 20:41 |
| annegentle | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/TC-communications-plan | 20:42 |
| annegentle | some points to discuss: | 20:42 |
| flaper87 | I think we got a fair feedback from the thread sent to os-dev, at least to help us get started | 20:42 |
| annegentle | I need to get with reed to see how to schedule this with the current Community newsletter that goes out Friday | 20:43 |
| annegentle | Also, I'm not wanting to maintain a separate twitter account for the tc | 20:43 |
| ttx | annegentle: ok, so still work in progress | 20:43 |
| annegentle | sounds like we agree on that | 20:43 |
| lifeless | annegentle: agreed, use own twitter handles | 20:43 |
| lifeless | folk can follow the new tc each cycle, if they care. | 20:43 |
| flaper87 | yeah, I think we can leave that one off | 20:43 |
| ttx | annegentle: anything you need urgent input on? | 20:43 |
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| annegentle | I think the judgement call will be on the cadence of messaging. | 20:44 |
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| annegentle | I think we've got this, next is implementation. I'd like to write a summary blog post this week and get the tags right. | 20:44 |
| annegentle | just wanted to vet the plan here | 20:44 |
| dhellmann | I thought we already said we would end each meeting with a discussion of what might need to be published? | 20:44 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: sounds good | 20:44 |
| ttx | dhellmann: ok, let's try that today | 20:45 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: I thought that was more a communication-team thing but it sounds good to me | 20:45 |
| flaper87 | :P | 20:45 |
| russellb | we had a previous attempt at the blog posts, what can we do differently to ensure it keeps up this time? | 20:45 |
| ttx | Let's speed through the remaining topics then | 20:45 |
| annegentle | (by get the tags right I mean Wordpress tags that go to planet.openstack) | 20:45 |
| annegentle | russellb: I think it's that flaper87 and I are accountable for a go-no go call on blog post this week? | 20:45 |
| flaper87 | annegentle: ++ | 20:45 |
| russellb | annegentle: OK, so more clear ownership, makes sense | 20:45 |
| annegentle | now that I don't have to write What's Up Doc weekly I feel I can keep up. | 20:45 |
| ttx | * Project Team Guide workgroup | 20:46 |
| ttx | We've started putting together an outline of what we should cover | 20:46 |
| ttx | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/project-team-guide | 20:46 |
| ttx | I think this is pretty solid and shall make an interesting read | 20:46 |
| ttx | Once the outline is ok we shall discuss how to make it happen | 20:46 |
| ttx | I'm tempted to try a two-day online sprint | 20:46 |
| flaper87 | ttx: can we try something at the summit? Friday? | 20:47 |
| jeblair | ttx: we wrote a big chunk of infra-manual that way with considerable success | 20:47 |
| flaper87 | not sure if it'll work with other folks schedules | 20:47 |
| ttx | flaper87: I already work on fixing the world Friday | 20:47 |
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| * flaper87 will try to fix the universe | 20:47 | |
| fungi | virtual sprint worked fine for infra-manual | 20:48 |
| * jeblair subscribes to both newsletters | 20:48 | |
| ttx | Anyway, the outline needs to mature a bit, no uregnt input needed at this point | 20:48 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I'm already over booked next week so let's try this online | 20:48 |
| ttx | #topic Other potential workgroups | 20:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Other potential workgroups (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:48 | |
| * flaper87 really wants it to be called: "Project's welcome package" | 20:48 | |
| ttx | I had a few extra areas to suggest we work on (or improve on) | 20:48 |
| lifeless | Architecture! | 20:48 |
| ttx | The first is how we handle cross-project specs and the cross-project meeting | 20:48 |
| lifeless | I know jaypipes and I are both interested in that :) | 20:48 |
| ttx | We introduced cross-project specs (and the new format for the cross-project meeting) last cycle | 20:48 |
| Rockyg | lifeless: ++1000 | 20:48 |
| ttx | I wouldn't describe the result as a clear success. The specs don't get a lot of attention, and the meeting is pretty desert | 20:49 |
| ttx | I'd welcome a workgroup to suggest improvements on that front | 20:49 |
| ttx | I'd also like to more aggressively rotate chairs on the cross-project meeting... | 20:49 |
| ttx | When we started we said we would rotate but I ended up doing 82% of them and dhellmann the remaining 18% | 20:49 |
| ttx | Anyone interested in working on that ? | 20:50 |
| dhellmann | I should have time to take on more of them, this cycle, if we decide we're going to keep having them. | 20:50 |
| ttx | I would put openstack/requirements in the same bag/workgroup, but since we might change what those mean pretty soon, probably better to wait for that | 20:50 |
| ttx | lifeless: Architecture... what would that workgroup do exactly ? | 20:51 |
| lifeless | I don't think the ownership will change | 20:51 |
| lifeless | ttx: rant and rave about the terrible things that cause us problems? | 20:51 |
| ttx | lifeless: sounds like fun! ++ | 20:51 |
| anteaya | I thought that group met regularly | 20:51 |
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| sdague | lifeless: you have to be on a committee to do that? | 20:51 |
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| lifeless | ttx: or more usefully, identify such things and work with projects to get fixing them prioritised, and help them get resources to do it | 20:51 |
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| lifeless | sdague: I don't know. | 20:52 |
| zaneb | lifeless: ++ | 20:52 |
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| lifeless | sdague: workgroup to me isn't a committe per se, its interested folk working together? | 20:52 |
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| lifeless | sdague: I'm pushing on this already myself, - it is in part why I'm down in the plumbing of pip atm | 20:52 |
| ttx | yes, by workgroup I mostly mean a defined group of interested people that can own a problem space | 20:52 |
| jaypipes | lifeless: agreed. the trick is to ensure that the group is productive... | 20:52 |
| lifeless | jaypipes: perhaps we should have alcohol in vancouver and come up with a plan. | 20:53 |
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| ttx | which brings me to the last point I wanted to make | 20:53 |
| jaypipes | lifeless: sounds good to me. | 20:53 |
| ttx | 3rd-party participation to TC workgroups | 20:53 |
| edleafe | lifeless: ++ | 20:53 |
| ttx | I don't think there is anything we will do in those workgroups that prevents non-TC-members from participating | 20:53 |
| russellb | i suppose we could have short term workgroups for key project issues ... like tracking/helping with the nova-network/neutron situation | 20:53 |
| ttx | Only TC members will ultimately vote, but non-members can still work in the workgroup to prepare the decisions | 20:53 |
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| jeblair | ttx: agreed | 20:53 |
| ttx | Thinking in terms of succession planning, that could be a nice stepping stone for future candidates | 20:53 |
| annegentle | we've seen good collab in the API working group | 20:53 |
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| jaypipes | ttx: I personally feel the API WG has been extremely successful in both gathering 3rd party feedback as well as being productive in putting out guidance documentation. | 20:53 |
| annegentle | jaypipes: yep | 20:54 |
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| russellb | ttx: i like that thinking | 20:54 |
| jaypipes | ttx: I don't necessarily see working groups as a TC-dominated or controlled thing. | 20:54 |
| jaypipes | ttx: more that we should ensure that TC members are active participants in working groups. | 20:54 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: more like TC-initiated | 20:54 |
| sdague | edleafe: ++ | 20:54 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: doesn't need to be, but sure :) | 20:55 |
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| jeblair | jaypipes: well, the thing under discussion is working groups of the TC | 20:55 |
| jeblair | so, i think by definition, yes | 20:55 |
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| jaypipes | ok | 20:55 |
| ttx | Right, so let's make it clear those are not TC subteams, just work groups that happen to be spawned by TC members | 20:55 |
| jaypipes | ok | 20:55 |
| flaper87 | ttx: ++ | 20:56 |
| sdague | jeblair: so, api-wg just grew up out of need, some TC members involved, but not a TC umbrella thing | 20:56 |
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| sdague | I kind of thing that's more successful model long term. We're only 13 people. | 20:56 |
| sdague | The community is large and lots of super smart people in it | 20:56 |
| lifeless | jaypipes: ttx: edleafe: +1 on all that | 20:56 |
| ttx | right, we seed those | 20:56 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:56 |
| lifeless | right, WG's, not SC'. | 20:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:56 | |
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| russellb | thoughts on making neutron/nova-network a workgroup? i think that's something important we should be checking in on regularly. | 20:56 |
| ttx | Two things to cover before we end | 20:56 |
| ttx | Did you think of topics we could discuss at the joint Board/TC meeting ? | 20:57 |
| lifeless | russellb: looks to me like nova and neutron have their stuff together on it | 20:57 |
| sdague | russellb: we should see if we still have livers left after vancouver :) | 20:57 |
| ttx | In particular, anything we struggle with on the upstream side that the Board could help us solve ? | 20:57 |
| jaypipes | ttx: none that I can say on a public IRC channel. | 20:57 |
| lifeless | jaypipes: !lol | 20:57 |
| devananda | ttx: tags? | 20:57 |
| ttx | devananda: you mean tags the board would find useful ? | 20:57 |
| ttx | or present the current status of tags ? | 20:57 |
| flaper87 | ttx: and the trademark thing too | 20:57 |
| annegentle | tags ++ | 20:57 |
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| devananda | ttx: yea. though I'm not sure we have any yet | 20:58 |
| jaypipes | ttx: here's one topic: "What is the board actually doing to enforce the contribution requirement of Platinum members?" | 20:58 |
| annegentle | where's last time's topics? | 20:58 |
| ttx | flaper87: both are already on my list | 20:58 |
| sdague | so, have we all just given up on dropping the CLA? | 20:58 |
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| russellb | jaypipes: nice one | 20:58 |
| flaper87 | ttx: awesome | 20:58 |
| russellb | sdague: ++ | 20:58 |
| dhellmann | sdague: ++ | 20:58 |
| ttx | #info TC+BoD topic: "What is the board actually doing to enforce the contribution requirement of Platinum members?" | 20:58 |
| annegentle | we should probably ask the Board what they need from our comm plan | 20:58 |
| sdague | jaypipes: I'm glad someone brought it up, I think that would be a good conversation | 20:58 |
| jeblair | sdague: ++ | 20:58 |
| ttx | #info TC+BoD topic "have we all just given up on dropping the CLA?" | 20:58 |
| fungi | i was just about to ask | 20:59 |
| jeblair | to make that a bit clearer, i assume that we have not. i assume that the board has been working in good faith on that. | 20:59 |
| ttx | And now we have 2 minutes to r aise points that should definitely appear in the TC comm | 20:59 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 20:59 |
| sdague | jeblair: ok, the last email thread on legal-discuss did not seem to indicate that | 20:59 |
| lifeless | is there a meet-the-TC thing in vancouver? | 20:59 |
| lifeless | we should advertise that in TC comms IMO | 21:00 |
| ttx | lifeless: no | 21:00 |
| russellb | thank goodness :) | 21:00 |
| mordred | people are bored with us | 21:00 |
| russellb | lunch with the TC/board was useless | 21:00 |
| ttx | lifeless: we opted out the "Lunch with Board" thing | 21:00 |
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| lifeless | not the lunch, I remember a session in hong kong | 21:00 |
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| mordred | yeah - no session such as that | 21:00 |
| lifeless | just mics at front of a room | 21:00 |
| lifeless | anyhoo, no is fine. | 21:00 |
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| jeblair | sdague: yeah, realize i may be disappointed. but my own inaction is not because i have given up, but rather am assuming good faith. | 21:01 |
| annegentle | My idea for this week's post would be to summarize the comm plan, point people to tag discussions, indicate the governance change that happened last week about agenda item timing... | 21:01 |
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| ttx | OK, last minute things-that-need-to-appear-in-anne's-post ? | 21:01 |
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| ttx | annegentle: you can mention the project guide in prep | 21:01 |
| annegentle | ttx: yes | 21:01 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: ++ | 21:01 |
| ttx | ok, time to wrap up | 21:01 |
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| ttx | I'll be seeing you all in a few days | 21:02 |
| dhellmann | see you all sunday! | 21:02 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 12 21:02:16 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-05-12-20.03.html | 21:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-05-12-20.03.txt | 21:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-05-12-20.03.log.html | 21:02 |
| jeblair | ttx: thanks for some deft chair work today :) | 21:02 |
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| lifeless | \o/ | 21:02 |
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| ttx | Alright, now is time for the awesome cross-project meeting | 21:02 |
| ttx | courtesy PTL ping: devananda, dims, morganfainberg, notmyname, gordc, nikhil_k, thingee, stevebaker, david-lyle, mestery, SlickNik, SergeyLukjanov, johnthetubaguy: around ? | 21:02 |
| dims | o/ | 21:02 |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 21:02 |
| jokke_ | o/ | 21:02 |
| devananda | ttx: \o | 21:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | o/ | 21:03 |
| david-lyle | o/ | 21:03 |
| annegentle | nice work timeboxing ttx :) | 21:03 |
| morganfainberg | O/ | 21:03 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 21:03 |
| lifeless | o-o | 21:03 |
| thingee | o/ | 21:03 |
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| * SergeyLukjanov now in PDT time zone and happy to have this meeting at a day time :) | 21:03 | |
| gordc | o/ | 21:03 |
| loquacities | o/ | 21:03 |
| mordred | SergeyLukjanov: ++ | 21:03 |
| ttx | annegentle: I counted 6 parallel discussions at some point | 21:03 |
| ttx | #startmeeting crossproject | 21:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 12 21:03:30 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:03 |
| edleafe | ttx: :) | 21:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:03 |
| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: WAT | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'crossproject' | 21:03 |
| edleafe | o/ | 21:03 |
| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: I hope that's temporary | 21:03 |
| ttx | Today's agenda: | 21:03 |
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| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting | 21:04 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, yeah, I'll back to UTC+3 in early June | 21:04 |
| * ttx likes to overlap with Sergey | 21:04 | |
| ttx | (nothing dirty) | 21:04 |
| ttx | #topic Design Summit last-minute checks (ttx) | 21:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Design Summit last-minute checks (ttx) (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:04 | |
| * ttx checks if we have Magnum track content up | 21:04 | |
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| dhellmann | dims, Rockyg: did we sort out the conflicts in the various logging sessions? | 21:05 |
| ttx | Right, so at this hour we are only missing the Magnum track contents | 21:05 |
| devananda | ironic content isn't up yet. was on my agenda to publish last night, but didn't get to it yet | 21:05 |
| ttx | sdake is working on it | 21:05 |
| Rockyg | not sure... | 21:05 |
| dims | dhellmann: y i believe so | 21:05 |
| dhellmann | dims: cool, thanks | 21:05 |
| Rockyg | Thanks, dims | 21:05 |
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| ttx | devananda: Ironic seems to have titles up and all | 21:05 |
| ttx | So... The production crew has been asking me to freeze the content soon, so that they can start preparing the digital signage | 21:05 |
| ttx | We can still push changes up to the same day, but we'll need to let them know | 21:06 |
| ttx | To this effect, I plan to disable Cheddar at the end of the day Wednesday | 21:06 |
| devananda | ttx: gimme 10 min and I'l lhave it updated | 21:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | ttx: how do we let them know? | 21:06 |
| ttx | johnthetubaguy: you don't, you go through me for the changes and I notify them | 21:06 |
| ttx | So we should work on the last-minute changes today or tomorrow | 21:06 |
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| johnthetubaguy | ttx: cool, sounds good | 21:07 |
| ttx | and after that you can send me email and I'll make manual changes and notify the production crew | 21:07 |
| ttx | Is there any last-minute conflict we should work on solving ? | 21:07 |
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| ttx | I think I heard someone mentioning one in some channel | 21:08 |
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| ttx | bauzas, ajo: ? | 21:08 |
| bauzas | aloha ? | 21:08 |
| bauzas | oh, related to the gantt meeting ? | 21:09 |
| ttx | bauzas: you mentioned a conflict earlier today on this channel | 21:09 |
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| ttx | is that unrelated to the design summit ? | 21:09 |
| bauzas | yeah, there is a neutron qos session happening at the same time than a nova session making me unable to attend both | 21:09 |
| ttx | bauzas: link ? maybe we can get some arrangement | 21:10 |
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| ttx | bauzas: FTR there are Nova sessions in every time slot, so... | 21:10 |
| bauzas | ttx: well, I was not hoping any solution :) | 21:10 |
| bauzas | ttx: yup, that's the point | 21:10 |
| ttx | bauzas: I'm fine with no solution | 21:10 |
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| johnthetubaguy | sadly those scheduler ones have a particular order | 21:11 |
| ttx | Also apparently we have a problem with the addition of extra tracks ("Also appears in...") | 21:11 |
| bauzas | ttx: I mean, I don't want to change anything since it could create a conflict too | 21:11 |
| ttx | We do the right Sched API call but sometimes it just doesn't stick | 21:11 |
| ttx | I blame the cloud | 21:11 |
| ttx | So if you have sessions you would like to make appear in other tracks, let me know and I'll add those directly in Sched | 21:11 |
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| jungleboyj | o/ | 21:11 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: well, the problem is on Thurs for the flavor and image session in Nova | 21:11 |
| bauzas | ttx: thanks for the proposal, but we can leave the sessions as they are | 21:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: that would cover qos, too I guess, but yeah, tricky | 21:12 |
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| ttx | johnthetubaguy: also moving things around at this point kind of breaks people that already selected sessions | 21:12 |
| bauzas | ttx: johnthetubaguy: we will probably provide a BoF for anyone wanting to discuss on x-project scheduling | 21:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | ttx: yeah, +1 | 21:13 |
| ttx | bauzas: ack | 21:13 |
| ttx | Last thing, you should bootstrap the etherpads for your sessions and list them at: | 21:13 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Summit/Liberty/Etherpads | 21:13 |
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| bauzas | ttx: that's my point, I don't want to break anything just for me | 21:13 |
| ttx | That lets people start putting things to discuss while their minds are still clear | 21:13 |
| ttx | And win precious time next week | 21:13 |
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| ttx | Questions on that ? | 21:13 |
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| ttx | #info Cheddar will be brought down and Design Summit schedule soft-frozen at EOD Wednesday, push your last changes in before then | 21:14 |
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| ttx | Alright, if there are no questions and no conflicts to solve, I guess we are good to go | 21:15 |
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| ttx | #topic Product Work Group Pre-Summit Roadmap Review (Shamail Tahir, Mike Cohen, Carl Barrett) | 21:15 |
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| ttx | Shamail: barrett: around? | 21:15 |
| Shamail | Good afternoon, thanks for giving us a moment of your time again this week. We greatly appreciate it. | 21:15 |
| barrett | Hi - Carol here | 21:15 |
| Shamail | hi ttx | 21:15 |
| geoffarnold | o/ | 21:15 |
| Shamail | hi geoffarnold | 21:15 |
| Shamail | and ofc barrett | 21:16 |
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| Shamail | The Product WG has two breakout sessions planned for the upcoming OpenStack conference in Vancouver and we plan to share the aggregated PTL feedback received so far in a session called "What's Next in OpenStack? A Glimpse at The Roadmap" (the team will definitely make it known that the active word in the title is glimpse). | 21:16 |
| Shamail | #link http://openstacksummitmay2015vancouver.sched.org/event/59009be478783e619d3f949b6e6e3b55 | 21:16 |
| Shamail | The reason we wanted some time on your agenda today is to show you a preview of the "roadmap" section of our presentation to ensure that the cross project team (including the PTLs) has a chance to provide us feedback prior to this content reaching a broader audience. | 21:16 |
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| Shamail | Here is a draft version of only the "roadmap" slides for our session on Monday, the actual deck will also set some context about the group. | 21:17 |
| Shamail | #link https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1ecgIygeGb5RJT4ASjyDTSV_TGKc2d-8YjFc3D2KhcSg | 21:17 |
| * ttx reads | 21:17 | |
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| Shamail | First and foremost, we kept the actual PTL feedback (verbatim) in our etherpad and the link is provided at the end. We do, however, believe that providing the session attendees with a summary of the actual feedback may be the most impactful of delivering the content. | 21:17 |
| Shamail | Our eventual goal is to serve both the user and developer communities (this may require maintaining two roadmaps) but we believe that our primary audience for this particular session will be users/operators and therefore we choose to prioritize the inclusion of changes that will be of more direct impact to people in these roles. We leveraged the PTL feedback and established "top 3" priorities for each projec | 21:17 |
| Shamail | t either based on the PTL stating that something was a priority or because it was a "big rock" that required a significant portion of the project team to achieve. | 21:17 |
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| Shamail | We also broke down the summary into three views with varying levels of details: 30K foot, 10K foot, and 30 foot. | 21:18 |
| Shamail | The 30K foot view focuses more on showing which themes are targeted by the various projects (again based on priority/summarized feedback) and this view can also be used to see which release has more focus on a desired theme for the user/operator. | 21:18 |
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| Shamail | The 10K foot view summarizes how each release/project aligns with the themes (e.g. allows a user to see all the changes across a release instead of theme or project). | 21:18 |
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| Shamail | The 30 foot view provides a per project summary of all changes in a project across releases (no theme-based view). | 21:18 |
| Shamail | The ASK: Can you please review the proposed roadmap slides and give us feedback. | 21:18 |
| Shamail | Carol (Barrett), do you want to add anything? | 21:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | Shamail: do you want feedback in comments in the doc? | 21:19 |
| Shamail | That would be ideal, can you also specify your project affliation? | 21:19 |
| Shamail | in the doc, when leaving the comment | 21:19 |
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| barrett | A couple of things, I'd like to add. 1st a comment on roadmaps: The roadmap that we are using in Vancouver session is a readout of PTL feedback. The Board has asked us to work towards a multi-release roadmap (along with work flow and process) before Tokyo. This glimpse roadmap is a starting point, but the final roadmap will be different. | 21:20 |
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| johnthetubaguy | barrett: we don't really agree the liberty priorities till the end of the summit | 21:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | not sure how that fits with the presentation | 21:21 |
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| * jogo notes PTL's do not decide what gets done | 21:21 | |
| etoews | Shamail: when you say "user and developer communities" what exactly to do mean? user==ops & developer==openstack contributor? | 21:21 |
| barrett | understand - we'll update the roadmap after the design summit is complete | 21:21 |
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| Shamail | etoews: yes, example would be that OpenStack contributors might want to know about the availability of a certain API or library... It may not be relevant to the user/ops. | 21:22 |
| Shamail | both might have their own desired value from the document | 21:22 |
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| bknudson | if we made a roadmap 6 months ago for keystone I don't think it would match what got done. | 21:22 |
| Shamail | johnthetubaguy: The concept is to present what are items on the teams mind (we chose the PTL since they are in touch with the core and community) | 21:22 |
| barrett | jogo: out goal is to work with the PTLs and developer community to gain alignment on priorities so we can all collectively have targets for each release. | 21:23 |
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| Shamail | we are not saying that this is a done deal since everything is driven by project agreement during the release cycle. It's giving users an idea of what might be the next area a team wants to address (not will address) | 21:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | so we are doing lots of alignment during the design summit | 21:23 |
| etoews | Shamail: there are more audiences for the product working group than that. 1 sec. lemme dig something up. | 21:23 |
| jogo | barrett: right, but doing that through the PTLs as the middle man for that doesn't really work IMHO | 21:23 |
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| barrett | bknudson: And that's OK. The roadmap shows directionally where we are heading, it will be dynamic and change. No problem | 21:24 |
| Shamail | etoews: agreed, I really like Tim Bell's message to the user committee. | 21:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | Now I do like the idea of this approach, but I need to collect thoughts from all the devs first | 21:24 |
| ttx | jogo: one other issue is that the data comes from the previous cycle PTL | 21:24 |
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| barrett | jogo: we're not trying to make the PTLs the middle man. We're trying to work with the PTLs, User Committee, other Community work groups to bring this about | 21:24 |
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| Shamail | johnthetubaguy: +1 and we also would like to collect feedback on the process and finding a balance between what's comfortable and needed. | 21:25 |
| jogo | barrett: I assume you are working with the companies that pay the vast majority o developers ? | 21:25 |
| barrett | Shamail +1 | 21:25 |
| barrett | Jogo +1 | 21:25 |
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| Rockyg | First round of this will likely be really off, but we will circle back and see what works and what doesn't each round. It should get better over time | 21:25 |
| jogo | Shamail: as a list of useful things to work on this sounds nice | 21:25 |
| Shamail | We wanted to share this content since we want to show it during the summit almost as a "preview" to the actual multi-release roadmap. As we embark on that journey, cross project and project teams will be front and center in helping us shape how we should build/deliver the information. | 21:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | I see stating we are doing this is the first thing, and thats great | 21:26 |
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| Shamail | We also need to figure out how to close the feedback loop and work on development help for use-cases, but that's a topic for another day. :) | 21:26 |
| barrett | Can we get your comments on the roadmap by end of Thursday? | 21:26 |
| dhellmann | Shamail: we have a bunch of tools in place for tracking blueprints already, are you looking at those? | 21:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | yep, I can try add mine by then | 21:27 |
| Rockyg | Yup. First round, collect the data and the thoughts on how the future will go, then start adjusting based on accumulated data and practice | 21:27 |
| etoews | Shamail: yep. and you might want to include a slide early on in your deck delineating the different audiences. "user and developer" mean different things depending on your perspective in openstack-land | 21:27 |
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| ttx | Also the same group will work on consolidating needs and wishlists from various SIGs, so that would be another data point | 21:27 |
| Shamail | We have a lot of work to do before Tokyo on how to obtain common feedback, workflow, alignment with cross project, feedback loop, how to help with developers to work on use-cases, etc. The roadmap presented today is just a glimpse and not our actual deliverable. | 21:27 |
| etoews | Shamail: i did this a couple of summit ago http://image.slidesharecdn.com/yousirsirvey-140519093410-phpapp01/95/you-sir-sir-vey-12-638.jpg?cb=1400492383 | 21:27 |
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| Shamail | etoews: +1, good feedback | 21:27 |
| barrett | johnthetubaguy: thanks | 21:27 |
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| ttx | and a good way to check that the two are not completely orthogonal | 21:27 |
| Shamail | etoews: I will "borrow" that | 21:27 |
| etoews | +1 | 21:28 |
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| Rockyg | dhellmann: do you have a pointer to those tools? | 21:28 |
| Shamail | We have two sessions at the summit | 21:28 |
| Shamail | the first session will focus on the content shown today | 21:28 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: I can't find my bookmark to the page that shows in progress blueprints, do you have that handy? | 21:28 |
| Shamail | the second session will focus on the group itself (charter, goal, workflow, next steps, etc) | 21:28 |
| barrett | For the Glimpse session, we think it would be very helpful if a couple of PTLs could be there to help field questions. It is on Monday at 11:15 in room 110. | 21:28 |
| ttx | dhellmann: that would be the release status page | 21:28 |
| ttx | dhellmann: still stuck on Kilo though | 21:28 |
| dhellmann | Rockyg: launchpad, for one: https://launchpad.net/oslo | 21:28 |
| ttx | http://status.openstack.org/release/ | 21:28 |
| dhellmann | ttx: right, that's the link I can never remember where it :-) | 21:28 |
| barrett | The Cross Project work session is scheduled for Monday from 3:40 – 4:40 in room 212. We’re going to focus on defining how we work together and process flow. Would be valuable to have some folks from this group join that session too. | 21:29 |
| loquacities | i can probably make it, for docs | 21:29 |
| ttx | dhellmann: one of the Liberty ideas is to stop predicting and just counting the points after the battle^Wmilestone is over | 21:29 |
| Shamail | dhellmann: yes, I did look at those... it would be great to figure out how to streamline parsing. The challenge is that we have the data (since everything is BP or spec) but parsing without project background makes it very hard. | 21:29 |
| barrett | loquacities: thanks | 21:29 |
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| Shamail | Whats user, whats internal, why was something done, etc | 21:29 |
| jogo | ttx: sounds like this group will do the predicting for now on | 21:29 |
| dhellmann | Shamail: yep, there's a lot going on | 21:29 |
| barrett | dhellmann ++ | 21:30 |
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| ttx | jogo: well, I'm happy to abandon it to them. People were expecting exact data from me and we just can't provide that, so better not provide it at all | 21:30 |
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| ttx | At least predictions will look like predictions | 21:30 |
| dhellmann | ttx: ++ | 21:31 |
| ttx | not as commitments | 21:31 |
| Rockyg | ttx: ++ | 21:31 |
| Shamail | ttx: ++ | 21:31 |
| fungi | "criswell predicts openstack" | 21:31 |
| barrett | ttx ++ | 21:31 |
| Shamail | We jokingly added a disclaimer but, in reality, it is needed to build a buffer. | 21:31 |
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| ttx | Also I see a lot of potential with comparing the priorty lists as expressed by the various SIGs | 21:31 |
| barrett | ttx ++ | 21:32 |
| ttx | with the 10Kfeet goals as expressed by the PTLs/Devs | 21:32 |
| ttx | and check that the two are not completely orthogonal | 21:32 |
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| ttx | and raise a flag if they are | 21:32 |
| Shamail | ttx: that would be great, it would help us by acting more as messengers than having to inject opinion through paraphrasing | 21:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | the SIG priorities are a great input to picking design summit sessions | 21:32 |
| Rockyg | it may also be useful to identify where specs are needed to achieve a priority | 21:32 |
| ttx | right | 21:33 |
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| barrett | Rockyg +1 | 21:33 |
| ttx | Shamail: i nthe future we may want to discuss timing | 21:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | Rockyg: do you mean this, in the Nova sense? http://docs.openstack.org/developer/nova/devref/kilo.blueprints.html#when-is-a-blueprint-needed | 21:33 |
| ttx | ideally we need as much priority input as possible pre-summit, to help with the selection of design summit sessions | 21:33 |
| Shamail | Shameless Plug: Please join the cross project meeting for the Product WG.. This conversation IRL would be great. | 21:33 |
| barrett | ttx: we're hoping to do that at the cross project session. | 21:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | we have "backlog" specs that no one has used yet, that could be useful to capture some ideas | 21:34 |
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| Shamail | link to any samples? | 21:34 |
| Shamail | sorry, that was for johnthetubaguy | 21:34 |
| barrett | jonthetubaguy: were do we find those? | 21:34 |
| Rockyg | johnthetubaguy: more like "it's a priority, but nobody has done anything to define it yet" | 21:34 |
| ttx | barrett: I'd argue it's too late to influence the design summit topic selection. May influence the discussions, but not really more | 21:34 |
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| barrett | ttx: Agree, we've done what we could ahead of the design summit to influence Liberty. | 21:35 |
| Rockyg | ttx: this time, yes. | 21:35 |
| ttx | barrett: for example the consolidated SIG priority list is useful input one month before summit, not one day before summit | 21:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | Shamail: we don't have any sample backlog ones yet, working with the ops folks to make add some this time | 21:35 |
| Shamail | We will definitely want to have further discussions in Vancouver and beyond.... We also appreciate any feedback on this specific content since it's for a breakout session that happens on Monday. :) | 21:35 |
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| johnthetubaguy | Shamail: other projects might have some | 21:35 |
| ttx | right, not blaiming the timing for this time, just food for thoughts next time | 21:35 |
| Shamail | thanks johnthetubaguy, i'll keep an eye out for them. I think they would be a useful tool. | 21:35 |
| ttx | blaming* | 21:35 |
| barrett | ttx: agree. I think we should try to publish is as soon after a release is made as possible | 21:35 |
| Shamail | ttx: thanks. | 21:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | ttx: +1 on the ideas for next time | 21:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | also, no we know this is a thing, we can talk about it | 21:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | so we have a better idea what will go in those slots next time | 21:36 |
| Rockyg | ttx: always hardest to get the ball moving. Static friction versus dynamic :-) | 21:36 |
| ttx | Alright, anything else on that topic ? | 21:36 |
| Shamail | ttx: point about PTL changes are valid, we even have to figure out when we should ask for feedback in a release cycle since the dust doesn't start settling until *-milestone 2 | 21:36 |
| ttx | We don't have another topic to discuss so we can continue a bit on this one | 21:36 |
| barrett | One thing we'll need help figuring out, is how we prioritize the inputs. This will be a topic at the cross project session. | 21:36 |
| Shamail | ttx: Please provide feedback by Thursday if at all possible. That's all from me. :] Thanks again for your time. | 21:36 |
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| Rockyg | Shamail: we can look at the specs and bps for milestone 1 and see if the priorities are targetted... | 21:37 |
| jogo | ttx: I am not sure having the list of SIG (I assume that means employers) priorities would help. As the good ones will have already introduced the ideas to the community as needed | 21:37 |
| ttx | barrett: the work group session on Monday is at the same time as my talk, so I'll have to skip, unfortunately | 21:37 |
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| barrett | Rockyg: Let's discuss in our work session earlier on Monday | 21:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | barrett: I would be fine with a big list of input, without priorities, rather than nothing like now | 21:37 |
| ttx | jogo: SIG = TelcoWG, Win the Enterprise and other special interest lobbying groups in openstack | 21:37 |
| jogo | I see more value in different SIGs alligning on efforts | 21:37 |
| Shamail | Rockyg: +1, we will need consistency in when we start aggregating (let's bring it up on WG session) | 21:37 |
| barrett | ttx: bummer...maybe catch-up sometime during the Summit or week after to discuss? | 21:38 |
| ttx | jogo: so not necessarily employers (unfortunately) | 21:38 |
| jogo | ttx: ohhhh, that is even worse .... requests for things without anyone to do it | 21:38 |
| ttx | jogo: right, that's why it's just an input. | 21:38 |
| * jogo notes how badly special interest groups impact the US Govt. | 21:38 | |
| barrett | johnthetubaguy: We can definitlely do a long list. But I think the priorities are going to be helpful, since many things will be cross project | 21:38 |
| ttx | jogo: and why I expect a bit of a lack in alignment with devs priorities | 21:39 |
| johnthetubaguy | barrett: totally | 21:39 |
| johnthetubaguy | barrett: but a flat list is a step forward already | 21:39 |
| Rockyg | johnthetubaguy: ++ | 21:39 |
| Shamail | See all of you in Vancouver hopefully | 21:40 |
| ttx | barrett: oh wait, when is the working group session ? | 21:40 |
| ttx | I may be confused | 21:40 |
| Shamail | Our Product WG cross project session is Monday 05/18 3:40 PM - 4:40 PM | 21:40 |
| barrett | ttx: there's a team working session on Monday from 2:00 - 3:30 | 21:40 |
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| ttx | ah no, not confused | 21:40 |
| jogo | ttx: yeah this should be interesting, esp. since dev priorities come from devs+ the people why pay them already | 21:41 |
| barrett | Followed by a cross project working session from 3:40 - 4:40 | 21:41 |
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| barrett | Shamail: Think your times are off | 21:41 |
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| barrett | Thanks folks - see you in BC! | 21:42 |
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| Shamail | barrett: I will defer to you. We talked about my amazing organization skills for summit chedule | 21:42 |
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| barrett | shamail: LOL | 21:42 |
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| etoews | if you're discussing a session, please just share a link to that session to avoid ambiguity. :) | 21:43 |
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| ttx | #topic Open discussion & announcements | 21:44 |
| barrett | #link: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Product_Work_Group_Vancouver_Work_Session | 21:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion & announcements (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:44 | |
| ttx | Anything else, anyone ? | 21:44 |
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| barrett | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ProductWG_xProjectSession | 21:44 |
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| bknudson | next tuesday is cross-project tuesday | 21:46 |
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| jokke_ | :) | 21:47 |
| ttx | yep, no meeting enxt week obviously | 21:48 |
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| ttx | Alright, if nothing else, let's close this | 21:48 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:48 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 12 21:48:25 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:48 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-05-12-21.03.html | 21:48 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-05-12-21.03.txt | 21:48 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-05-12-21.03.log.html | 21:48 |
| ttx | Thanks everyone! | 21:48 |
| jokke_ | thanks | 21:48 |
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| loquacities | thanks ttx :) | 21:49 |
| jungleboyj | Thanks! | 21:49 |
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