Thursday, 2015-08-20

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thinrichsHi all.00:00
thinrichs#startmeeting CongressTeamMeeting00:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Aug 20 00:00:44 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is thinrichs. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.00:00
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'congressteammeeting'00:00
RuiChenhi thinrichs00:00
thinrichsHi RuiChen00:01
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thinrichsI have just a couple of technical things on the agenda:00:02
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thinrichs1. Discuss tables with differing numbers of columns00:02
thinrichs2. Gating on tempest tests00:02
thinrichs3. Progress on distributed architecture00:02
thinrichsIs there anything else?00:02
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thinrichsIf anything comes to mind, pipe up.00:04
RuiChenif you have anything need my help, please feel free to assign to me :000:04
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thinrichsRuiChen: thanks!  Some of the blueprints for the distributed architecture are unclaimed.00:05
RuiChenyeah, I see it00:05
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thinrichsNot as many as I had thought though.00:06
thinrichsLet's start with discussing this code change:00:06
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thinrichsYingxin1: want to describe the problem it's solving?00:07
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Yingxin1A table is used to generate other tables, report errors, and execute actions.00:08
Yingxin1But I found that a table with multiple columns fail to do either of them.00:09
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Yingxin1And currently there are many bugs supporting tables with multiple columns00:10
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Yingxin1So I pushed this patch.00:10
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thinrichsRight.  The only main reason we've been hesitant to eliminate multiple columns for a single table is error.00:11
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thinrichsThe error table, that is.00:11
thinrichsIt's always been useful for us to write the rule..00:11
thinrichserror(vm) :- blah00:11
thinrichsand also write the rule...00:11
thinrichserror(vm, net) :- blah00:12
thinrichsI asked Murano if they were using multi-arity tables, and they said no.00:12
thinrichsSo there's no customer we know of that this would break.00:12
Yingxin1Yes, but an error table collecting many errors, it should also tell where these errors come from.00:13
thinrichsIn the long run, we want to enable people to write different kinds of error statements.00:13
thinrichsYingxin1: could you explain what you mean by "where these errors come from"?00:14
thinrichsMaybe with an example.00:14
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Yingxin1When there are many rules generating errors to an 'error()' table.00:15
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Yingxin1So there will be many kinds of error in a single error table.00:16
Yingxin1But a single error table cannot tell what kind of error it is.00:16
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Yingxin1So it confuses users.00:17
thinrichsI don't think that having multiple error tables will be enough to explain where the error came from, but it might help classify the type of error.00:18
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thinrichsIt sounds like you want multiple error tables.00:18
thinrichsWhen someone asks for all the policy violations, we still need a way of displaying all those error tables.00:19
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thinrichsThat is, having multiple tables doesn't change the work we need to do at the CLI/Horizon layer.00:19
thinrichsIt just enables us to add a syntax check.00:19
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thinrichsI think in the long run, I'd lean toward turning 'error' into a modal operator.00:20
thinrichsSo we'd write something like…00:20
thinrichserror[table1(vm)] :- blah00:20
thinrichserror[table2(vm, net)] :- blah00:20
thinrichsThen someone can ask for all the errors with a query like:00:20
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thinrichsgive me all x such that error[x] is true.00:21
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thinrichsWhat do we all think?00:22
Yingxin1Yes, error table can be a special one.00:22
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RuiChenhow we can get the different error tables row ?00:22
RuiChencongress policy row list chenrui_p error ?00:22
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thinrichsWith Yingxin1's change, you'd ask multiple queries:00:23
thinrichscongress policy row list chenrui_p error100:23
thinrichscongress policy row list chenrui_p error200:23
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thinrichsAnother change would have a special CLI command, e.g.00:24
Yingxin1Or the error tables can have a naming convention00:24
thinrichscongress policy row list modal chenrui_p error00:24
Yingxin1Congress can search for them automatically.00:24
thinrichsYingxin1: you still need the special API call to do that.00:25
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thinrichsI'm proposing a clean way to implement that API call and to write the policy rules.00:25
Yingxin1I think so.00:26
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thinrichsRuiChen: any objection to eliminating differing column-numbers for a single table?00:27
thinrichsIt's time to move on.00:27
RuiChenno, but I think maybe we need a specs to clarify it?00:27
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thinrichsI don't think we need a spec.  The code is already written.00:28
thinrichsIt's more a usability question than a technical question.00:29
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thinrichsLet's follow up on comments on the code itself.00:29
thinrichs#topic Gating on Tempest tests00:30
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thinrichsI've been trying to get the tempest tests working so we can add them to our gate.00:30
thinrichsEnsuring no code gets merged unless it passes the tempest tests.00:30
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thinrichsThis came up again this week when Congress wouldn't start in devstack, which the Murano team noticed.00:30
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thinrichsThe problem seems to be that the tempest tests fail > 50% of the time.00:31
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thinrichsBut it's a different test that fails each time.00:31
thinrichsHere's the latest.00:31
thinrichsSearch for: Failed 2 tests00:32
thinrichsI've tried upping the timeouts and disabling tests, just so we can get basic devstack integration tested on each checkin.00:32
thinrichsBut that hasn't worked out so well.00:32
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thinrichsAt this point, I'm thinking about just disabling all but a couple of tests that work reliably00:33
thinrichsand gating on those.00:34
thinrichsThen we can fix the flaky tests later.00:34
pballand+1 for that, even if the tests are trivial00:34
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thinrichspballand: I saw your comment; do you know SKIPtest() works?00:36
pballandI don’t - I just figured if you were renaming methods, using “SKIP” instead of XXX would be better00:37
alexsyipI second thinrichs ’s plan.00:37
thinrichsOh—got it.  Thought you were saying I was using the wrong method name.00:37
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thinrichsWill do.  Seems tempest doesn't like us to skip tests.00:37
thinrichsRelated question for the group: anyone know how to stop tempest from running entire files of tests?00:38
thinrichsB/c we have nova, neutron, cinder, swift, etc. running in devstack, tempest is running all of the tests it has for all of those services too.00:39
thinrichsInstead of just the Congress tests.00:39
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Sayajithinrichs: We can provide a file with the list of tests to run to tempest00:40
RuiChenmaybe we can remove the file name prefix 'test***'00:40
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thinrichsSayaji: any docs on that?  Can we do it in the gate pipeline?00:41
thinrichsBTW: found the proper way to skip tests in tempest:00:41
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Sayajithinrichs: I have to look it up00:42
thinrichsTLDR: Use the @skip_because decorator00:42
thinrichsSayaji: could you look it up and send us a link (email or whatever)?00:42
Sayajithinrichs: Sure, will do that00:42
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thinrichsSayaji: thanks!00:43
Sayajithinrichs: np00:43
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thinrichsNext topic: status reports.00:43
thinrichs#topic status00:43
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thinrichsMainly on the distributed architecture, but anything the group needs to discuss is fine too.00:43
thinrichsSince we're short on time, just volunteer if you have something.00:44
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alexsyipI checked in some changes required for rule synchronization.00:44
pballandI pushed a draft of the dist-cross-process-dse spec.  Design is still in progress, but it would be helpful if people could check the requirements00:45
alexsyipI started addressing some comments for the startup script.00:45
pballands/requirements/Problem description/00:45
alexsyipThat’s all.00:45
thinrichsalexsyip: was that the change the eliminated duplicates from the DB?00:45
zhenzanzTim: I take your bug Neutron and HA tempest tests broken00:45
openstackLaunchpad bug 1486246 in congress "Neutron and HA tempest tests broken" [High,New] - Assigned to Zhenzan Zhou (zhenzan-zhou)00:45
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thinrichsalexsyip: I had to revert it because it wouldn't work with MySql00:45
zhenzanzdo you have detail logs?00:46
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alexsyipmysql doesn’t support unique?00:46
thinrichsalexsyip: mysql requires the field to have a fixed width for it to be unique00:46
thinrichsAnd I think it could be at most 255 chars long.00:46
thinrichs(I could be wrong about that one though.)00:46
alexsyipThat’s unfortunate.00:46
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thinrichsalexsyip: yep.  Also, we need to write a DB migration script every time we change the schema.00:47
thinrichsTurns out to be just a matter of running a script.00:47
thinrichsI had forgotten about it entirely.00:47
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thinrichszhenzanz: turns out it's not just the neutron tests.00:48
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thinrichszhenzanz: there are a bunch that nondeterministically fail00:48
thinrichszhenzanz: see above discussion about tempest tests and gate.00:48
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thinrichspballand: cool!00:49
zhenzanzok, thanks. Sorry I'm late00:49
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thinrichsLet's all make a point of getting pballand comments on the spec over the next few days.00:50
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thinrichs#action all review dist-cross-process-dse spec00:51
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thinrichszhenzanz: no worries.  Figured you had missed that bit of the meeting.00:51
pballandthinrichs: thanks - unfortunately there is no full design there, but I wanted feedback sooner than later to make sure we are in agreement on the problem we are solving00:51
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thinrichspballand: sounds like a good idea to me.00:52
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thinrichspballand: remember that we already have broad consensus for the approach00:52
thinrichspballand: so I wouldn't be timid about getting it out there.00:52
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pballandI am working on improving my DseNode skeleton, and updating the design incrementally00:53
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thinrichspballand: nice!  I think a lot will become clearer once we have a first cut of that.00:53
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thinrichsThat brings to mind…00:53
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thinrichsI was wondering if it's worth debugging the RPC functionality that we're adding *before* moving to the fully distributed architecture.00:54
thinrichsThat is, we could get everything working over RPC using the existing DSE00:54
pballandwhat do you mean by debugging?00:54
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thinrichsand then once we move to the RPC of oslo.messaging, at least we've eliminated some basic problems.00:55
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thinrichsSo we'd be sending messages over the deepsix messaging functionality.00:56
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thinrichsInstead of reaching into the policy engines and datasources directly when implementing the API.00:56
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thinrichsOr would that be too much work?00:57
thinrichsWe already have an implementation of RPC using deepsix (though we abandoned it).00:57
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thinrichsWe could resurrect it.00:57
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pballandnot sure…00:58
thinrichs2 minutes left.00:58
thinrichsAnything else?00:58
pballandif we use the same rpc method name, though, it may make the transition easier00:59
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thinrichspballand: agreed.00:59
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thinrichsIt'll help us make sure we've removed all references to external services and singletons.01:00
thinrichsTimes up.01:00
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thinrichsLet's keep making good progress!01:00
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openstackMeeting ended Thu Aug 20 01:00:38 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)01:00
openstackMinutes (text):
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RuiChenbye, everybody01:01
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jamielennox#startmeeting openstack-qa09:03
openstackMeeting started Thu Aug 20 09:03:39 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jamielennox. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.09:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack-qa)"09:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstack_qa'09:03
jamielennoxI have no idea how to lead a meeting - particularly one for qa09:03
jamielennoxhowever as i'm the only one with stuff on the agenda i may as well09:04
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jamielennoxplease let there me other people here09:04
jordanPjamielennox, o/09:04
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ylobankovhi guys09:04
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dmelladohi all09:04
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jamielennoxso i'm not sure what to do here - does anyone know if there was a plan to skip this week?09:05
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jordanPjamielennox, I haven"t heard such a thing09:06
jamielennoxi have no powers on qa, i feel we don't exactly have a quorum09:06
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jordanPafazekas, gmann me from the tempest core team are here, at least.09:07
jordanPmkoderer, ping ?09:07
dmelladohow about just going over the agenda?09:07
gmannmay be oomichi forgot to send mail.09:07
jamielennox#topic V3 identity in devstack09:07
*** openstack changes topic to "V3 identity in devstack (Meeting topic: openstack-qa)"09:07
jamielennoxi sent an email to the mailing list last week saying that we are trying to remove the v2 identity default in devstack09:08
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jamielennoxthis has the possible side effect of breaking anyone doing openstackclient identity commands directly (not using things in functions)09:08
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jamielennoxlast time i made a breaking change like this there was the general idea that it should be advertised better before hand09:09
jordanPjamielennox, no way to be safe and not to break too much ?09:09
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jamielennoxhowever no-one has responded with any particular concerns to the email - which leads me to believe no one saw it09:09
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jamielennoxjordanP: so if you are using the get_or_create functions that devstack ships then it's fine09:09
jamielennoxand there are a bunch of commands that are the same in v2/v309:10
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jamielennoxhowever things like create a project or create users can be different and i expect there are at least some third party CIs out there09:10
jamielennoxthat use it that way09:10
jamielennoxOne way or another this needs to happen. keysotne has been trying to deprecate v2 auth for ~4 cycles now09:11
dmelladoso then this change would only break 'theroically' 3rd party CIs?09:11
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jordanPI guess you could send a gentle reminder on the ML, just to be safe. In the end sdague and dtroyer or ianw would have to approve the change09:11
jamielennoxi have no specific knowledge of anyone that is broken by this09:11
jamielennoxjordanP: that's the first link :)09:11
jamielennoxi kind of feel like i'm going to have to wait on that until we can get at least those 3 together09:13
jamielennox#topic TLS Support09:13
*** openstack changes topic to "TLS Support (Meeting topic: openstack-qa)"09:13
jamielennox(i should have picked a better week :)09:13
jamielennoxso currently there is supposed to be support for TLS in devstack via a stud proxy09:14
jordanP#link btw, the agenda is here09:14
jamielennoxthis is broken by various services who forget about this case09:14
jamielennoxThere are two patches that do pretty much the same job of fixing this09:15
jamielennoxthe goal here is to at least get devstack gating with TLS support to stop it from getting worse09:15
jamielennoxsdague has come out against the patch saying we need to fix it in services09:15
jamielennoxi completely agree - however in the mean time devstack is broken and i would like to get these passed09:15
jordanPwhat do you mean "in services" ?09:15
jamielennoxso the main issue i'm aware of is that when you do version discovery you need to know your current URL09:16
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jamielennoxif your request has gone through a load balancer this is no longer what the service expects09:16
jamielennoxand the service will respond with fully qualified URLs that are based on a non-public host09:17
jamielennoxi feel the long term solution to this is just make all discovery services use relative URLS and ignore determining the host09:17
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jamielennoxto pull this off though is a massive cross project effort with multi cycle deprecations09:18
jamielennoxand lets face it, they are often not effective09:18
jamielennoxi don't want to wait to fix devstack on implementing that plan09:19
jamielennoxianw has already +2ed09:19
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jamielennoxagain, i'm interested in peoples opinions but i think it'll require getting some devstack-core together09:20
jordanPI don't like having to hardcode public endpoint in the conf09:20
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jordanPbut I understand that we need an intermediate step09:20
jamielennoxjordanP: agreed, i'll be honest i thought there was better support from load balancers on this one09:21
jamielennoxthat the original request URL was passed through (i might be wrong and it is)09:21
jordanPjamielennox, I remeber when I was an operator we had issue with heat behind a LB09:21
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jamielennoxrcrit: any idea if the original request url is available behind a load balancer?09:21
jordanPwe had to fordward the HTTP_FORAWRD-PROTOCOL header09:22
jamielennoxbecause i know that for example in keystone if public_endpoint is not set in CONF then we take it from the request URL09:22
jamielennoxjordanP: yep, i've seen that as well, but that handles specifically TLS termination09:22
rcritjamielennox, I don't know.09:22
jamielennoxrcrit: when you get a chance can you have a look09:23
rcritbut keystone is one of the services in the patch09:23
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jamielennoxat the env vars and see if there is some indication of the original request URL09:23
jamielennoxit's hard to tell on devstack because the TLS terminator is on the same host as the servic09:24
jamielennoxif available that's a fairly easy path forward09:24
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rcrityou'd be able to tell by the protocol09:24
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jordanPthat would be LB specific, some LB could forward or give a hint about the original URL, some other LB won't...09:25
jamielennoxalright, taking this meeting leadership thing by the horns09:25
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rcritit could also differ service to service09:25
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jamielennox#action rcrit to determine if there is a standard way to get original request URL from behind a load balancer09:25
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rcritroger that09:26
jamielennoxi htink long term we want to go relative URLs but if we can at least deprecate the public_endpoint thing that'd be a good start09:26
jamielennoxi'll figure out who i need to chase on that one09:27
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jordanPjamielennox, do you know where exaclty this public_endpoint config is used ?09:27
jamielennox#topic Open Discussion09:27
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: openstack-qa)"09:27
openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0xa4c2b10>09:27
jordanP(just for my info)09:28
jamielennoxjordanP: so when you do GET / on most services you get the versions back and a link to them09:28
jamielennoxfor most services that's a fully qualified link09:28
jamielennoxoriginally you always had to set public_endpoint and that would become the base of those version links09:29
jamielennoxin keystone at least we deprecated that and we would take the current request URL as the base path09:29
rcritit defaults to the current host using http as the protocol09:29
jamielennoxbecause that had obviously gotten you to the service09:29
jamielennoxthen we did the X-Forwarded-Proto thing for TLS09:30
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jamielennoxbut i would have thought there must be a way to determine the original URL09:30
jordanPjamielennox, you can always have your LB add extra HTTP header09:31
jordanPbut it's not standard practise09:31
jamielennoxjordanP: yea, but then we need to figure out every load balancer, we could set a config to receive what that variable name was but i'd prefer just to get rid of the practice09:32
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jamielennoxhonestly i don't think many people are actually relying on the version and links in the response anyway09:32
jamielennoxi would be surprised if people noticed let alone were broken09:32
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jamielennoxanyway - i guess that's a cross project spec so i'll look at that09:33
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jamielennox#action jamielennox figure out a cross project spec for removing absolute links in projects09:34
jamielennox#topic Anything Else09:34
*** openstack changes topic to "Anything Else (Meeting topic: openstack-qa)"09:34
jamielennoxtheres a few tempest people - is there anything you are looking to discuss?09:34
jordanPgmann, I am a bit overwhelm by your "Return complete response" work :)09:35
gmannjordanP: sorry, stuck in nove thing09:35
jamielennoxjordanP: i'll happily topic it if you let me know what it is09:35
jordanPjamielennox, that would be open discussion :)09:36
gmannjordanP: so now we going for those first than UT09:36
jordanPgmann, UT is done no ?09:36
jamielennoxjordanP: roger that09:36
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jordanPgmann, not really in fact, I've checked09:36
gmannjordanP: no, actually progress was slow there and even that can be done on lib too09:36
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jordanPlet's see how far Kenji Yasui can go09:37
gmannjordanP: added one more guy today from my team lets see if that goes well :)09:37
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gmannjordanP: yea09:37
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jordanPgmann, Kenji Yasui is getting better and better. His patchsets 1 are mostly good now09:38
jordanPwe good expect good progress in the next week09:38
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jordanPgranted we review his work09:38
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gmannjordanP: ok .09:39
dmelladoI also wanted to know if there's anyone around that knows what the current state for dhcpv6 in tempest (really in cirros)09:39
dmelladoI wanted to add dhcpv6 stateful scenario tests but as I discussed in last meeting it's still not fully supported09:40
dmelladoLast bug I found was this
openstackLaunchpad bug 1366326 in CirrOS "ipv6 support" [Medium,Confirmed]09:40
jordanPdmellado, so is there a bug with tempest ? I mean did you run Tempest with let's say ubuntu instead of cirros ?09:41
dmelladojordanP: suggested to try manila approach but and use another image but I'm not really sure how that would pass the gate09:41
dmelladojordanP: it's a cirros issue09:41
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dmelladousing another image, if it supports dhcpv6 (not in cirros) it just works09:41
jordanPdmellado, that's a good start09:42
jordanPthen I guess you should brought this topic to Cirros ML09:42
jordanPmake some noise... as usual :)09:42
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dmelladoI'll do, let's see if we can get to have that implemented09:43
jordanPyep, that's the only way I can think of09:43
dmelladobecause tempest gate checks are limited to cirros image, usually, isn't it?09:43
jordanPdmellado, yep. And this is not going to change as far as I can see09:43
jordanPcirros image are very very convenient09:43
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dmelladoroger that jordanP, I agree on that09:44
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jordanPswitching to something else would really increase the requirements to run the gate jobs09:44
dmelladoI'll try to bring some noise to have ipv6 tools inside cirros, wish me luck XD09:45
dmelladothanks jordanP09:45
jordanPdmellado, did you read comment ?09:45
openstackLaunchpad bug 1366326 in CirrOS "ipv6 support" [Medium,Confirmed]09:45
jordanPmaybe you can work with this person to see if we made some progress09:45
dmelladoyes, just read it, that's why I wanted to know about the status09:45
dmelladoI can check with him09:45
jordanPthat won"t be an easy task but full ipv6 in cirros would benefit to a lot of people09:46
jordanPsomeone has something else to say ?09:47
jamielennox#action jamielennox to copy all his topics to next week09:47
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jamielennoxanyone else?09:48
jamielennoxalright - thanks for coming09:48
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"09:48
openstackMeeting ended Thu Aug 20 09:48:48 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)09:48
openstackMinutes (text):
dmelladothanks all ;)09:48
jordanPjamielennox, yeah, usually we have more people on the alternative time09:48
jordanP(but it's late for people in europe)09:49
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jamielennoxjordanP: yea, i figured it'd be the quieter, but it just so happened this was when i had things09:49
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dmelladojordanP: then I guess thank you for making the effort of showing up here at a non-good time ;)09:50
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jordanPdmellado, I am in Paris, so it's noon here, perfect time :)09:50
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ylobankovIn Saratov (Russia) it is noon as well :)09:52
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DaisyHello, we are going to start i18n meeting here13:02
FdotFrHello Daisy :)13:02
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Daisy#startmeeting OpenStack I18n13:03
openstackMeeting started Thu Aug 20 13:03:34 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Daisy. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.13:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n)"13:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstack_i18n'13:03
DaisyHi, sorry I was a few minutes late.13:03
DaisyWho is there for I18n meeting ?13:03
FdotFr\o_ :)13:04
ianychoiHello :)13:04
DaisyHi, nice to see you FdotFr and ianychoi13:04
doug-fishHi - I am!13:04
DaisyHi, Doug13:04
DaisyGreat. Let's start while people will join in.13:04
DaisyI have several things to discuss tonight.13:04
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Daisy#topic Toyko summit sessions13:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Toyko summit sessions (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n)"13:05
DaisyIt's time to plan I18n sessions in Toyko summit.13:05
DaisyI have the right to book meeting rooms for the team.13:05
DaisyPlease think about which topics do we want to go through or interlock with other people .13:06
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DaisyOf course, I will book sessions for translators only.13:06
ianychoiokay :)13:07
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DaisyThere are only 3 days in Tokyo summit , Tuesday, wed and Thursday.13:07
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DaisyI booked Thursday morning, from 9:00-11:00 for translatiors' workshop only.13:08
DaisyI also booked two time slots on Tuesday.13:08
doug-fishisn't it Friday too?13:08
doug-fishfor the developers?13:08
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DaisyMaybe yes, doug-fish.13:08
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DaisyFrom the speadsheet I'm reading, it's only 3 days. Maybe Friday is for developers, but not included in this table.13:09
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DaisyI also booked two time slots on Tuesday, just after the keynote. We could discuss I18n related things with other teams and people.13:09
doug-fishI think its 3 days for the expo but the developers have Friday also13:10
DaisyIf you have any proposals, please let me know.13:10
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jftaltahi all13:10
jftaltaSorry to be late13:10
DaisyI will write an email to ML about that.13:10
DaisyHi, jftalta13:10
DaisyNO worries.13:10
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DaisyWe were talking about I18n sessions in Tokyo summit just now. I will write to our ML about this.13:11
ianychoiHow about Zanata tutorial or discussion session? I am suggesting it because Zanata is new..13:11
Daisyianychoi: do you need Zanata tutorial ?13:12
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ianychoiNot so far. I have not been using Zanata too much.13:12
Daisyianychoi: I think we need a interlock session with infrastructure team to discuss the improvement of our translation tools and platform.13:12
doug-fishDaisy: is there a Zanata tutorial available?13:12
DaisyI think there was a Zanata demo before.13:13
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ianychoiOkay, I got it.13:13
Daisyianychoi: I will check if I could still find the demo link and I will share with you.13:13
jftaltaInterlock session ??13:13
ianychoiThanks, Daisy :)13:13
Daisyjftalta: interlock session means discussion... jftalta, I don't know if I used the wrong word.13:14
doug-fishI know many of the other project hold "operator feedback" sessions where they hear from people using their code how it is working ... perhaps a related session could be held for i18n to get feedback from distros or other groups using the translations?13:14
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Daisydoug-fish: It's a good idea. Do you think how many people might attend such session ?13:14
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doug-fishnot sure - i18n has only recently gotten more visibility so maybe people are thinking about it much yet13:15
DaisyI like your words, doug-fish. :)13:15
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doug-fishIt would be nice to find out if the distros are using translations, if any are causing trouble, do they change any of the translations outside of the community, etc13:16
DaisyMaybe a specific session for translation tool/platform and a general session for all i18n things. And a morning workshop booked for only translators.13:16
Daisydoug-fish: good idea.13:17
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Daisydoug-fish: let's talk more details about it off line.13:18
doug-fishjust one last thought on what I was suggesting - if you call it a "feedback session" people may see it as a vehicle to come in and complain - that's a good thing because you'll get feedback from people who care13:18
doug-fishokay.  I'll settle down.  :-)13:18
Daisydoug-fish: it's all right. Thank you for the inputs.13:18
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DaisyI will have to move to next topic.13:19
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Daisy#topic Moving to Zanata13:19
*** openstack changes topic to "Moving to Zanata (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n)"13:19
DaisyLiberty is nearly the end.13:19
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DaisyAccording to the release schedule, the feature freeze is Sep. 1-3, and the final release date is Oct. 15.13:19
DaisySo, teams, we will start our busy translation after Sep when feature is freezed.13:20
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DaisyThere is no exactly string freeze date for Liberty, according to the release schedule.13:20
ujuchi... late.;13:20
DaisyBut since we only work with Horizon, I will check Horizon team closely to see when they will "string freeze"13:20
adiantumhi, we'll start translation of Horizon after freeze13:21
DaisyAccording to my experience, it might be the late half of Sep.13:21
doug-fishDaisy: slightly related - are you aware of Horizon's push to have more UI developed as plugins instead of directly in Horion?13:22
DaisyI don't know, doug-fish13:22
DaisyDo you mean, a lot of new strings, or a lot of un-translatable strings appear ?13:22
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doug-fishHorizon has encourage some other teams like Manilla, Designate, and Magnum (off the top of my head) to implement their new UIs as plugins to Horizon, with code is a separate repository13:23
DaisyOK. Got your idea.13:23
DaisyThat's a new situation.13:23
doug-fishwhich means (I assume) they will be additional Horizon-related projects that might need translation13:23
doug-fishI don't know if any of them are really ready for translation13:23
DaisyAgree , doug-fish.13:24
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doug-fishHow should those projects make you aware when they feel their code is ready for translation?13:24
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jftaltaDoes this mean a more heavy workload for the translation teams ?13:25
DaisyRedhat dev team connected with me last week, they want to translate Tuskar UI, which has not set up localized mechanis yet.13:25
doug-fishonly to the extent that Horizon is bigger - but it does allow the workload to be more modulr13:25
jftaltaOk, I understand.13:26
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doug-fishDaisy: you should have them use Horizon's pseudo tool to make sure their strings can be translated13:26
DaisyI will check with Horizon team to understand the situations, and will update with team when I got it.13:26
jftaltaOk Daisy.13:27
DaisyHorizon's pseudo tool is to check whether there are strings not marked as "translatable string", right ?13:27
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doug-fishyep - it does this by creating fake translations for some language - if fake translations are shown then the code should be ready to handle real translations13:28
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DaisyIt's a good test tool. I will let them know after I set up the connection with them.13:29
Daisyok. Thanks, doug-fish13:29
DaisyAbout Liberty translation, it's highly possible that we will use Zanata13:30
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Daisyso team, help me to encourage your team to sign the CLA, register ID in Zanata, and get familiar with Zanata,13:31
DaisyAny suggestions about how to let our world wide translators know that we are going to Zanata ?13:31
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adiantumi have one13:31
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Daisyadiantum: 1 for what ?13:32
adiantumfor statistics we need to name iterations like releases13:32
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Daisyadiantum: could we get releases from Zanata API ?13:32
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FdotFrDaisy we should block subscriptions on transifex first and block all the projects in it ;)13:32
jftaltaSorry but I have to leave you, unfortunately.13:33
adiantumactually we can get it in iteration names13:33
DaisyFdotFr: I don't k now if there are still communication ways to send messages to all organiztion translators in Transfiex.13:33
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jftaltaDaisy, just a question before I leave : have you got some news about ATC Tokyo code ?...13:33
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Daisyjftalta: the namling list is sent to TC. They are voting. When it is passed, I will send the name list to support team.13:34
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FdotFrDaisy I don't know but you should to be able to disallow the access to the project on transifex13:34
DaisyThen we will get the ATC codes.13:34
jftaltaDaisy : ok, thanks.13:35
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DaisyFdotFr: I remembered I could broadcast message before, but now I cannot find the user interface.13:35
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FdotFrDaisy lol :D The interface in transifex is changing all the time !13:36
jftaltaBye everybody. See you soon.13:36
DaisyFdotFr: agree.13:36
Daisyjftalta: bye.13:36
adiantumFdorFr: +1 !13:36
ianychoibye :)13:36
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DaisyNext topic.13:36
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Daisy#topic IBM wants to contribute translations13:37
*** openstack changes topic to "IBM wants to contribute translations (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n)"13:37
Daisydoug-fish: are you still here ?13:37
doug-fishI am13:37
Daisywill you explain your plan to the team ?13:37
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doug-fishIBM has a set of translations that we'd like to share with the community13:38
doug-fishbased on our Kilo translation of OpenStack13:38
doug-fishIt's about 6 or 7 projects and 9 or 10 languages ... it doesn't include Horizon ....13:38
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Daisyceilometer glance heat nova ironic neutron cinder keystone swift13:39
Daisyfor languages:13:39
doug-fishWe'd like to use this to bring some of the other projects translations more up to date13:39
Daisyde es  fr  it  ja  ko_KR  pt_BR  ru  zh_CN  zh_TW13:39
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doug-fishI'm working on a tool to do this merge intelligently, so if a translation for a segment exists is doesn't get overwritten13:40
adiantumwhat is translated in this projects? logs?13:40
FdotFris the translators used the works done into horizon ?13:40
FdotFrdo they try to use the same terminlogy ?13:40
doug-fishI'm not 100% sure if the logs are translated13:40
FdotFrdoug-fish that's not a pb for the logs because we were agreed for not translating them ,à13:41
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doug-fishI'll actually have to make sure we don't translate them because I believe the capability is still there, right?13:42
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ianychoiBefore it merges to different languages, can we review IBM translations and compare it?13:42
DaisyFdotFr: I think, we could have them to use the same terminlogy in the future. But for now, IBM's contribution will help us to increase a big number of the completion rate.13:42
adiantumdoug-fish: that's good - because translations of logs could be bad thing... for operators who searching answer in search engines easy to find untranslated messages13:42
doug-fishadiantum: yes, understood13:42
FdotFradiantum +1 :)13:42
doug-fish* wishes for message IDs13:42
doug-fishianychoi: I'm not sure there is a way to conduct a review13:43
doug-fishDaisy: do you have any suggestion for that?13:43
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FdotFrdoug-fish if there is not the same terminoly into the product and into Horizon you can have a lot of misunderstand13:43
Daisyianychoi: As doug-fish said, he will merge IBM translations with existing translations, and make sure the existing translations won't be overwrited.13:43
doug-fishI'd expect the translations to be similar to what what donated in the past for some of these projects13:44
doug-fishthey aren't nearly as active as Horizon!13:44
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FdotFrhorizon is using error message from this project so i you have an error message which is reported with a different word it can difficult to understand13:44
ianychoiI am a little bit worried that IBM translation results would include unnecessary log translations..13:44
adiantumand i think additionally we need to be sure that we have same terminology in translations, it's important i think13:45
doug-fishFdotFr: The "good" news here is that Horizon and service messages aren't coordinated in english either.  :-)13:45
FdotFrdoug-fish that's a good news :)13:45
FdotFrdoug-fish we are probably going to have understandable messages :D13:45
doug-fishDaisy: would the tooling allow these translations to be uploaded, and then rollled back to a previous state if they were found to be unacceptable in some way?13:46
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Daisyno, doug-fish13:46
DaisyWe need to figure out a way to review IBM's translations.13:46
Daisyof course, we could review from the UI.13:46
doug-fishoverall I'm certain the IBM translations are of good quality - but I can't say for sure how consistent they may be with existing terminology13:46
Daisywe could review from zanata UI.13:46
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DaisyBut I think, the team may want to review the contributions in a whole, which might be much easier for the reviewers.13:47
doug-fishsure, I can understand that ....13:47
Daisydoug-fish: agree, I have confidence to the quality too.13:47
doug-fishcan you offer any suggestion on the best mechanism to conduct the review?13:47
Daisywhat I could think, is to use a shared repo, or google docs.13:48
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ianychoiYes I really hope that IBM terminologies would be consistent with our translations.13:48
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Daisyianychoi: I hope all of us could work together to improve the terminologies, and then make it as a consistency, whether who want to translate.13:49
ianychoiDaisy, I totally agree with you.13:49
Daisyianychoi: I mean, both our team, and IBM translators, and maybe other professional translators from other companies.13:50
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Daisyianychoi: but for now, you know, even in some existing translations, we didn't use a unique terminologies.13:51
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ianychoiOne possible review I think is that it would be better if we see the diff: our PO files and IBM translation's PO files.13:51
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ianychoiDaisy, I also agree that some existing translations have not unique terminologies.13:52
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Daisyianychoi: As doug-fish's original plan, he will only contribute the translations of strings which are not translated in community.13:52
doug-fishianychoi: just to be clear - I have PO files available to me that have complete translations, but I am working on a tool to only update translations where the segment is missing13:52
doug-fishso a compare might be interesting, but please remember that none of those strings would actually get updated13:53
doug-fishunless I write a bug.13:53
doug-fishbut that doesn't happen.13:53
ianychoiDaisy, I see. Thank you for your clarification.13:53
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Daisydoug-fish: I think we could use a repo. When you have done, create a repo in github, and share with the team.13:53
DaisyPackage all the po files together, and share with the team.13:54
doug-fishDaisy: okay that sounds good. Thanks all!13:54
Daisy#topic open discussions13:54
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussions (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n)"13:54
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DaisyAs to the naming list to get ATC codes for the summit, the naming list might be a little different from what I have proposed to TC.13:56
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DaisyAcoording to Therriy's comments, the people who could get ATC codes are active contributors in 6 month.13:56
DaisyThe naming list I proposed are people who are active contributors since 2014.1113:57
DaisySo I will create a new naming list according to the data in Transifex.13:58
DaisyAny other things to discuss here ?13:58
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adiantumFor stats purposes as i said before we need to have naming conventions13:59
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Daisyadiantum: let's discuss in openstack-i18n.13:59
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DaisyOK. I will write an email to ML about the topics we discussed today.13:59
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DaisyThank you for attending.13:59
adiantumthank you14:00
DaisyI will close the meeting.14:00
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doug-fishthanks all!14:00
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ianychoithanks all:)14:00
openstackMeeting ended Thu Aug 20 14:00:16 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)14:00
openstackMinutes (text):
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johnthetubaguy#startmeeting nova14:00
ujucsorry late.14:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Aug 20 14:00:29 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is johnthetubaguy. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)"14:00
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FdotFrDaisy thank you Daisy  :)14:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova'14:00
johnthetubaguyhello all14:00
johnthetubaguy#topic Release Status14:01
dansmitho/ (for five minutes)14:01
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johnthetubaguy#info liberty-3 is expected on September 1st14:01
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johnthetubaguythats the next big date14:02
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johnthetubaguywhere we get string freeze, etc14:02
johnthetubaguyand its the final full feature freeze14:02
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mriedemo/ even14:02
johnthetubaguyI decided to skip the priority feature proposal freeze as such, letting the individual groups deal with that in there own way14:02
johnthetubaguy#topic Bugs14:03
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johnthetubaguyso lets talk bugs14:03
johnthetubaguymarkus_z: any updates?14:03
markus_zone solved critical, high prio bugs seem to get more14:03
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johnthetubaguyclearly its a great time to start reviewing lots of bug fixes14:03
markus_zMany of the high prio things are pretty old, I will go through the list14:03
johnthetubaguymriedem: anything on gate stats?14:04
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johnthetubaguy(and/or stable)14:04
mriedemthe logstash job queue has been wonky for about a week,14:04
mriedemso we don't have great numbers on the current state of the gate - there is some new neutron thing blowing up stuff with a race updating quotas on the neutron side14:04
openstackLaunchpad bug 1485969 in neutron "test_dualnet_multi_prefix_dhcpv6_stateless failed due to "RuntimeError: Set changed size during iteration" in quota code" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Ihar Hrachyshka (ihar-hrachyshka)14:04
mriedembut since we don't have logstash indexes i don't know how prevalant that is14:04
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johnthetubaguyah... so blind right now14:05
mriedemclarkb said there is a fix working it's way through and then we should be back to knowing the state of the world14:05
mriedemsort of yeah14:05
johnthetubaguyOK, thats good news I guess14:05
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mriedemfor stable, kilo is ok i think, there are a few changes out for review14:05
mriedemjuno has some issues with devstack and capped/uncapped dep conflicts which tonyb was pursuing a fix for14:06
mriedemi'm not sure if that's wedging all of juno though, i haven't dug in that far14:06
johnthetubaguymriedem: is it worth us talking about stable releases at all?14:06
mriedemprobably not14:06
mriedemthere isn't concensus there yet14:06
johnthetubaguyyeah, I guess, join in the fun on the ML if you are interested14:06
johnthetubaguycools, any more on that stuff?14:06
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johnthetubaguythanks mriedem and markus_z14:06
johnthetubaguy#topic Reminders14:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Reminders (Meeting topic: nova)"14:07
johnthetubaguylets keep revieweing the above list14:07
johnthetubaguyand doing post summit actions14:07
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johnthetubaguy#topic Open Discussion14:07
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mriedemwe need more trivial bugs in the priorities etherpad :)14:07
johnthetubaguyso I don't see any tuck reviews, to straight to opne14:07
dimsmriedem: ack will do one today14:08
johnthetubaguymriedem: thats true, dims did you find people to help you with that?14:08
bauzaswell, we had some discussion on a review14:08
bauzasbut it's no longer stuck I guess14:08
johnthetubaguy#help need people to help dims add trival bugs into
mriedemthere are 2 trivial bugs in the list atm14:08
bauzasmriedem: I guess some of us will have more time to chase bugs post-FF :)14:08
mriedemsubteam change lists are also pretty short14:08
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dimsjohnthetubaguy: thanks14:08
mriedembauzas: we were post FF a couple of weeks ago14:08
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johnthetubaguyyeah, they are all starting to run try, although thats good really14:09
dimsjohnthetubaguy: when do we yank ec2 stuff?14:09
johnthetubaguymriedem: well that was non-priority feature freeze, but yeah14:09
bauzasmriedem: post-FF for non-prio stuff but14:09
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johnthetubaguydims: I think we were still waiting for ops feedback, I think cern promised to supply some after there upgrade14:09
dimsk thanks14:10
mriedemi have 2 things on open discussion14:10
johnthetubaguydims: appreciate people checking though, don't want to forget that14:10
johnthetubaguymriedem: yup14:10
johnthetubaguymriedem: so 500 response stuff?14:10
mriedemfirst is about when a microversoin is needed,
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johnthetubaguyits a good point14:11
mriedemthere are 2 changes, both handle turning a 500 into a 400+ error14:11
mriedemwhich used to be totally fine as a bug fix in v2 land14:11
johnthetubaguyI replied this morning, on a middle ground14:11
mriedemi haven't caught up on the ML yet14:11
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mriedembut my questions are in the meeting agenda14:11
johnthetubaguymriedem: what about a version bump without a spec, just to advertise the change?14:11
mriedembut how is the bug fixed in v2 api?14:11
mriedemor is it not?14:11
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johnthetubaguybut we backport the change to all previous versions too14:11
johnthetubaguyI missed that bit14:11
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mriedemi guess v2 gets the same error code that v2.1 gets14:12
johnthetubaguyso the original thinking was, new error code, best let people know via an API bump14:12
mriedembut why is that?14:12
mriedemi believe tempest handles anything over 400 as an error14:12
johnthetubaguymriedem: just so they know its something they can now expect14:12
mriedemi'd expect most clients to do similar14:12
johnthetubaguymriedem: but not all clients do that, I think thats the thinking14:12
mriedemif a client is handling each 400+ one by one, they are nuts14:13
johnthetubaguyits more because we can, rather than anything else14:13
mriedemjust because we can't doesn't mean we should14:13
jichenmriedem: Alex added some comments on
johnthetubaguymriedem: some can be retried in a different way though14:13
johnthetubaguynot that we get that right14:13
mriedemsure, but14:13
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alaskiI would think that a 500 error to something else wouldn't require a bump14:13
mriedemi'd think that most clients, like our actual client libs, would have some central error handling for all API responses14:13
mriedemnot just some specific one about creating volumes14:14
mriedemit would be madness to try and sync those up14:14
johnthetubaguyalaski: I think we originally we said, yes, as long as its an existing error code for that API call14:14
johnthetubaguyso I think you are right14:14
mriedemidk, i'm definitely not sold on that - and if that's the reasoning i think it needs to be documented in the devref about when to add a microversion in those cases14:14
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johnthetubaguymy preference is, advertise the fix in an API bump, but fix the return code in all API versions14:15
mriedemin one of these patches jichen could have used an existing 400 but it's overquote and the api-wg docs say to treat those as 403, which would be new in that extension14:15
mriedemand according ot our docs that's yet another microversion14:15
johnthetubaguyyeah, I am saying lets go for a middle ground, fix the error code for all API versions, do a bump just to advertise the fix14:15
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johnthetubaguy(advertise the fix, incase someone wants to rely on that error code to do something fancy)14:16
mriedemso the other question is, how are microversion bug fixes like this in v2.1 in liberty backported to kilo?14:16
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alaskijohnthetubaguy: I'm not sure I see the value in the bump if the error changes on previous versions14:16
mriedemsince we can't just go from 2.3 in kilo to 2.1314:16
johnthetubaguymriedem: honestly, thats a good question, don't think we have an answer for backports14:16
mriedemi suggested 2.3.114:17
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mriedemin kilo14:17
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johnthetubaguymriedem: hmm, I quite like that actually14:17
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mriedemi do'nt think jichen actually plans on backporting these, but it is something we used to do for 500->400 fixes14:17
jaypipeshey guys, sorry I'm late :(14:17
mriedemjust in time14:17
johnthetubaguyalaski: its minimal value, its just signalling to users because we can, really14:17
mriedemsince i'd also like jaypipes' input14:17
jichenmriedem: I can do14:17
alaskimriedem: we would need to forward port that as well right?14:18
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jaypipesmriedem: so I've been thinking on that exact thing since reading alex_xu's response this morning.14:18
johnthetubaguy+1 to jaypipes input on this14:18
mriedemsdague said he wouldn't make the meeting today but he should also have input here14:18
alaskimriedem: so 2.3.1 doesn't stop working14:18
mriedemalaski: forward port the 2.3.1 to liberty?14:18
mriedemso 3 changes for one bug fix?14:18
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mriedemi guess you'd have 2.13 for liberty, 2.3.1 in liberty for backport to kilo14:19
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mriedembut basically the same code14:19
alaskiwas this really not discussed on the original specs?14:19
johnthetubaguyouch, that fails doesn't it14:19
* alex_xu forget the meeting14:19
rlrossitwould it be possible to just make a 2.3.1 in liberty, or do we actually need the 2.13 bump?14:19
mriedemaparently we haven't thought through backports14:20
johnthetubaguyalaski: we kinda skipped the "when to bump" thing, and I guess we accidentally skipped backports in the process :(14:20
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alex_xuif we treat 500 as contract, we needn't backport14:20
bauzasI thought the .z stuff was -1'd nope ?14:20
mriedemwe could table the backport discussion so we don't bikeshed here14:20
alaskiis there any reason we can't just backport the same version?14:20
mriedemi'm mostly interested in not overprocessing a stupid simple fix to handle a 50014:20
jaypipesalex_xu: the 500 stuff is *never* contractual, though. it's always considered a bug (that does not need a microversion bump) when something returns a 500.14:20
johnthetubaguyalaski: we assume we have all versions in between right now14:20
alaskijohnthetubaguy: can we relax that assumption?14:21
johnthetubaguyjaypipes: +1 on the 500 error never being a contract14:21
mriedemjaypipes: "it's always considered a bug (that does not need a microversion bump) when something returns a 500." is not what our devref says14:21
jaypipesalex_xu: what *does* need a microvesion is when we change something from 4XX to some other 4XX14:21
johnthetubaguyalaski: not sure we can given how we report the min/max versions of the API14:21
jaypipesmriedem: the API WG devref or the Nova one?14:21
mriedem also applies here14:22
alex_xujaypipes: but user may, when user saw the 500, user may based on the response to detech what kind of error14:22
johnthetubaguymriedem: so for backports, maybe all microversion bumps are "features", so there should never by any backports, but that means relaxing some of the rules, I guess14:22
mriedemjohnthetubaguy: but that basically means you can't ever fix api bugs on stable14:23
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johnthetubaguymriedem: well can't fix any bugs that change the API version, we can backport the others14:23
jaypipesalex_xu: client code should *never* be *expecting* a 500 error.14:23
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johnthetubaguyjaypipes: +114:23
alex_xujaypipes: yea, I agree, but when you access an bug openstack deployement, he may want to bypass that14:24
johnthetubaguyso if we never do a microversion bump for 500->4xx do we get closer to what we need? thats the stuff thats worth backporting (often)14:24
jaypipesmriedem: that is correct. you cannot backport API-changing bug fixes. period. but a 500 -> 403 is not an API-changing bug fix (it's considered correcting wrong behaviour)14:24
mriedemjaypipes: then our docs need to be updated14:24
mriedemi can push that change14:24
jaypipesyes, they do.14:24
jaypipesmriedem: I will review accordingly14:24
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mriedemat least needs to say * except for 500+ -> 400+14:25
mriedemnow the other question is
alex_xueven we backport...we still can't ensure all the deployement update to that fix...14:25
mriedembecause in this one overquota case, the api is expecting 400 and 404 today, but we need to add 403 to that list14:25
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mriedemalex_xu: johnthetubaguy: i think we should table the backport thing for now,14:26
mriedemit's not something someone wants to do *today*14:26
johnthetubaguymriedem: yeah, sorry, I got carried away there14:26
edleafemriedem: what about 500+ -> anything else?14:26
* dansmith agrees with jaypipes' statement on backports14:26
jaypipesmriedem: you may want to add some text to the effect of "under no circumstances should the API microversion ever 'fork' to use a tertiary ".Z" number. this means under no circumstances should a patch that cotnains a microversion bump be backported to a stable branch."14:26
edleafemriedem: i.e., it should have worked, but the bug threw a 50014:26
johnthetubaguyedleafe: true, success is also a valid outome14:26
dansmithjaypipes: +114:26
edleafejaypipes: +114:27
mriedemedleafe: i'm not following,14:27
mriedemthere are like 5 use cases going here right now14:27
mriedemand then dansmith showed up :)14:27
jaypipesmriedem: but worded in Mortimer's phrasing, if you wish...14:27
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edleafewell, there's the problem14:27
mriedemthat asshole pissed all over the wood floors last night, so f him14:27
mriedemjaypipes: so the .Z note would be a separate patch14:28
mriedemwhen we cover backport rules14:28
mriedemanyway, let's start small with the 500->existing 400 case14:28
mriedemi still don't like
mriedemif you have 400,404 but need to add 40314:29
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edleafemriedem: my point is that a 500 is always a bug. Fixing the bug may result in a 200 being returned, and that's OK14:29
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mriedemedleafe: yes14:29
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johnthetubaguyedleafe: +1 on that14:29
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mriedemwe shoudln't require a new versoin of nova just to make shit not suck14:29
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edleafemriedem: +114:29
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edleafemriedem: put that in devref, please14:29
mriedemi'm glad we all agree on sanity14:30
mriedemto some degree14:30
johnthetubaguyso I think we just created a whole heap of stuff that can be backported14:30
mriedemanyway, we can move on , i can harass jaypipes in -nova later14:30
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mriedemi still have gripe #214:30
alaskimriedem: on new error codes my opinion is that adding a new one shouldn't need a bump, but changing one should.  so 404->403 would, but not just adding 403 for a new thing14:30
johnthetubaguymriedem: the extra error codes requiring a bump?14:30
mriedemalaski: +1 from me on that14:31
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mriedemjohnthetubaguy: no, lxc ci14:31
johnthetubaguymriedem: ah, right, good point14:31
mriedemlxc ci, wtf14:31
johnthetubaguyyeah, I replied to that, mostly with oops we didn't follow through with that14:31
dansmithno gd?14:31
mriedemgd lxc ci wtf14:32
mriedemso the good news is we should be able to run it on community infra, no third party ci14:32
* johnthetubaguy applies babel fish14:32
mriedemi don't know if devstack is setup for lxc right now though14:32
mriedembut if it does, it seems pretty straight-forward to start a job that runs a devstack in lxc config mode14:32
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mriedemand then we can wittle down the tests that won't work14:33
johnthetubaguymriedem: +1 it totally seems worth adding, and well, needed14:33
mriedemhaving said that,14:33
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mriedemi've never used lxc14:33
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johnthetubaguyso I have reached out to the folks who claimed they wanted to help with this14:33
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mriedemdo we have names? s1rp, apmelton ?14:33
johnthetubaguyin the hope they could help with the heavy lifting on that14:33
johnthetubaguyyeah, apmelton14:33
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alaskiI just forwarded the thread to apmelton14:33
mriedemif someone could just say, this is what yo uneed in localrc for devstack,14:34
mriedemthen i think i can help with the project-config job stuff14:34
dimsmriedem: needs some additional stuff installed i think (on the base image)14:34
mriedemdims: yeah maybe14:34
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johnthetubaguy#help can folks help mriedem with getting devstack and LXC working nicely14:34
mriedemthat's why i'm wondering if devstack is up to snuff already14:34
edleafenot to confuse things more, but there's also LXD:
mriedemwe don't support lxd do we?14:35
johnthetubaguyedleafe: not sure we support that yet though14:35
mriedemyeah, f it14:35
johnthetubaguyits out of tree, possibly14:35
mriedemoh yeah i think it is14:35
johnthetubaguybut yeah, ignore that for now14:35
edleafeok, just thought it might handle some of the lifting for ci14:35
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mriedemi remember finding that at YVR14:35
johnthetubaguyapmelton: so wondering if you can help with LCX ci?14:36
mriedemapmelton: do you know if devstack works with lxc today, or needs work?14:36
apmeltonmriedem: it has issues14:36
mriedemapmelton: fixable issues?14:36
apmeltonmriedem: the biggest issue is the driver is leaking ndb devices all over the place14:36
mriedemor like, you need to build packages from source that aren't in 14.04 issues?14:37
mriedemapmelton: but that's a bug in the driver right?14:37
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mriedemnot getting devstack setup to just run it14:37
apmeltonmriedem: it seems so14:37
mriedemi just want a job that runs the damn thing, then we iterate on fixing bugs14:37
apmeltonlibvirt-lxc itself in 14.04 appeared to work just fine14:37
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mriedemright now we're blind14:37
apmeltonI totally agree14:37
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mriedemapmelton: can you get me the localrc for devstack + lxc later?14:38
mriedemok, i'm done with items14:38
johnthetubaguythey were good items14:38
johnthetubaguythanks for those14:38
johnthetubaguyany more for any more?14:38
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johnthetubaguycool, so lets get 20 mins back, for some extra reviewing time :)14:39
johnthetubaguythanks all14:39
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gordc#startmeeting ceilometer15:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Aug 20 15:00:46 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is gordc. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer'15:00
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gordclet's get started.15:02
gordc#topic recurring: roadmap items (new/old/blockers)
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gordcunder 2 weeks left before we cap liberty off15:03
gordcany blockers out there?15:03
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silehtmy integration test is still blocked by the keystonemiddleware/oslo.config issue15:03
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gordcsileht: :( is it just because of slow reviews or because keystone team has issues with it?15:04
silehtI hope keystonemiddleware merged my fixes otherwise we have to merge the cdent workaround15:04
cdentI thought we did merge that?15:04
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idegtiarov_didn't we?15:05
silehtgordc, because keystone guys don't really care, 'it works for most projects and a workaround exists'15:05
silehtcdent, the global CONF stuffs crap ?15:05
gordcsileht: kk. can you send me patches.15:05
cdentyeah my fix is merged: aodh devstack puts the config in the paste file15:05
cdentoh not _that_ workaround15:05
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cdentI just made it work the way the keystone guys want it to15:06
gordcsileht: maybe it's best to start with workaround and play with proper fix after?15:06
silehtoh god configuration in paste file, sniff ....15:06
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ildikovsileht: is that fix a big change in keystonemiddleware?15:06
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silehtildikov, not really15:06
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gordccdent: your workaround is in aodh correct?15:08
silehtcdent, thx, I guess I can retry to test the integration job with that15:08
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gordci'm leaning more to just working with workaround for now, just so we aren't completely blocked.15:09
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ildikovsileht: hmm, if there isn't anything else there besides the docco stuff, we still should keep some pressure on keystone folks to get this merged15:09
gordcsileht: i can follow up with keystone team15:09
ildikovsileht: not a big one indeed15:09
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silehtildikov, they are a thread on the ML15:09
ildikovsileht: cool, I'll check, I'm always behind with the list15:10
silehtall middlewares was impacted by the same issues, all have been fixed except the keystonemiddleware one15:10
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gordc#action gordc will follow up with keystone team regarding middleware.15:10
ildikovno comment15:10
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gordcsileht: can the workaround and keystonemiddleware patch coexist?15:11
silehtgordc, yes15:11
silehtgordc, the workaround is just a deprecated way to configure the middleware15:12
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gordcsileht: cool. yeah maybe just try with workaroudn first? we won't get keystonemiddlware release until next week earliest.15:12
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ildikovgordc: wdo we have an aodh release date target?15:12
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gordcildikov: sorry i was googling 'wdo' no i realise it was just 'do'15:13
gordcildikov: i think we can release once we get the integration tests working.15:13
ildikovgordc: sorry typing fast is not my skill :)15:14
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gordcildikov: i think the previous conditions were we need equivalent functionality and testing before release.15:14
ildikovgordc: agreed on that one15:15
ildikovgordc: can this middleware fix and the remaining event-alarm patches fit into that timeframe also?15:15
silehtgordc, sure I was not aware of the merge workaround15:15
gordcsileht: cool cool.15:15
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gordcildikov: i'd rather get a release first... but if the middleware fix and event-alarm patches get in before testing is complete, that's cool.15:16
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ildikovgordc: ok, I will switch into review mode then15:17
ildikovgordc: thanks15:17
gordccool, so hopefully we can get first aodh release sometime soon.15:18
gordcanyone else with liberty items?15:18
gordcnadya: do you think we can start gating on postgres functional tests?15:18
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pradkgordc,  we have the last few patches for declarative notification.. if we can get it approved soon so we can get it in before gate craps out15:19
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gordcpradk: cool. will look.15:19
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nadyagordc: yep, experimental job is ok15:19
nadyagordc: should I make it voting?15:20
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gordcnadya: i think so, assuming there hasn't been any random errors with the check.15:20
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gordcnadya: don't want to block our gate but i'd still like to make sure we test everything15:21
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nadyagordc: ok, I will run it several times and will make it voting today-tomorrow15:21
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gordcnadya: cool cool.15:22
ildikovnadya: cool, just in time before Liberty15:22
ildikovnadya: thanks for taking care of this15:22
gordcnadya: yep, thanks very much.15:22
gordcany other items?15:23
gordcr-mibu: everything ok with event-alarms?15:23
nadyait's my job (c) :D15:23
cdentI'm still trying to get the grenade-related stuff moving, but with linuxcon on this week it's stalled15:23
r-mibugordc, one questionregarding cache15:23
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gordccdent: np. i assume the grenade plugin path is still not fully fleshed out yet?15:25
gordcr-mibu: sure.15:25
r-mibugordc, I'm trying to create the last patch for event alarm which is for caching event alarm definitions15:26
cdentseems so, yeah; it's evolving15:26
r-mibugordc, which is the best libraly for python caching?15:26
r-mibugordc, oslo_cache or dogpile directly?15:26
gordcr-mibu: i'm not exactly sure what is in oslo_cache. dogpile.cache appeared useful last i looked?15:27
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gordcr-mibu: is there a way to do in-memory cache?15:27
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r-mibugordc, there is a dict backend, i think it can cache data in-memory...15:29
gordcr-mibu: oh, it's a wrapper. i guess we should try oslo.cache to see if it helps.15:29
gordcr-mibu: i don't have a suggestion right now. not sure if anyone else has opinion? but i'll comment on your patch.15:30
gordcr-mibu: also, the monasca team was interested in the event-alarms so they may email you about what your plans.15:31
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ildikovr-mibu: I talked about Doctor to them on Tuesday15:31
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r-mibugordc, ok15:32
ildikovr-mibu: I will send some material to them about the project, I will cc you15:32
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r-mibugordc, ildikov, nice!15:32
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gordccool anything else regarding Liberty features/bugs?15:33
gordc#topic recurring: ceilometerclient release?15:34
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gordcnothing happened here, so next!15:34
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gordc#topic recurring: Gnocchi status15:34
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gordcanything of importance?15:34
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cdentjd__ and I fought with some bugs on friday but he was finally able to find them15:35
cdentissues with orphaned metrics15:35
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cdentthis has led to a lot of race condition related fixes15:35
cdentinfluxdb is ready to merge15:35
gordccdent: that's great news15:36
cdent(still no devstack integration though)15:36
gordci wasn't really expecting that.15:36
gordcis there a reason we haven't +A influx driver?15:37
cdentI think it's just a case of minor changes killing prior +2s15:37
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cdentI was gonna just approve it based on the prior history but then felt guilty15:38
gordccdent: i don't have powers so i'll let someone else do that.15:38
nadyawhat we are waiting for to merge it?15:38
cdentnothing now15:39
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idegtiarov_we are waiting for brave gnocchi core15:39
cdentit's done15:39
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nadyacdent: Chris, now we have time for taking care about influx driver15:40
gordccool stuff15:40
gordcthanks for the effort folks15:40
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gordc#topic plan for performance testing (nadya/idegtiarov)
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idegtiarov_folks please take a look at the etherpad now we have some  thoughts  from Chris15:42
nadyawe have decided to do some benchmarking on a big lab and it would be awesome if you share with us your ideas15:43
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* gordc will read and comment.15:44
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nadyawhat we want to get is smth like this but for Liberty15:45
idegtiarov_gordc, thanks15:45
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gordci take it it's only related to storage?15:47
gordcre: performacne testing15:47
gordci'll ask questions in etherpad. :)15:48
gordc#topic openstack user survey question15:48
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gordcwe have the opportunity to ask users one multiple choice question.15:49
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idegtiarov_gordc, sure let move discussion there15:49
gordcthis is just to get an idea if anyone has a question they've always been wondering about.15:49
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gordcmaybe a question regarding users' impression of gnocchi.15:50
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gordcor what roadmap features they feel is most important15:50
gordcit's a single question, but if anyone has any suggstion feel free to chat about it now (or send me an email)15:51
gordci need to submit a question by next the 25th.15:51
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cdenthow about something radical like: would you prefer to see ceilometer fixed or replaced?15:52
gordcthat's really all i had.15:52
gordccdent: lol15:53
gordccdent: do you need a survey to know what the answer is?15:53
nadyawhat is your case? for what do you use Ceilo15:53
cdentgordc: no but I need supporting data15:53
gordcnadya: good question regarding use case15:53
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cdentwith a multiple choice answer, yes? what would the choices be?15:54
gordc... sorry, distracted. there's a guy driving wrong way down street.15:54
ildikovgordc: nadya: or what you use/would use Ceilometer for?15:54
nadyaabout use-cases: it's interesting how customers see it, no options :)15:54
idegtiarov_nadya good question I would finish it like: what is your case? for what do you use or would like to Ceilo15:55
idegtiarov_*to use Ceilo15:55
gordcbilling data, service healthcheck, resource monitoring,?15:55
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ildikovthere was a concernc from gordc and cdent that people are not willing to write a lot15:55
cdentit's not a free form answer, only multiple choice15:56
gordcnadya: idegtiarov_: it's better to give them options to choose from (and maybe an 'other' field)15:56
ildikovwhich is something that worth to consider also regarding how to form the question15:56
nadyaaha, I see...15:56
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gordcnadya: it can be free form. but no one answers free form. (citation: experience)15:56
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nadyanow I have a task to describe all possible monitoring-related use cases, so I can prepere some options15:57
idegtiarov_ildikov,  agreed people do not like to write  :D15:57
gordcnadya: that'd be good.15:57
ildikovif we want use cases then we can add high level options like 'monitoring', 'resource usage trends', 'billing support', 'other: please describe' and they can check what's inetersting15:57
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nadyagordc: will do15:57
ildikovis the use-case finally that we would like to go with then?15:58
nadyaildikov: yep, we need options with descriptions (as detailed as possible)15:58
gordcildikov: i think it's a good question. but i'm open to any.15:58
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idegtiarov_it is a good question as for me15:58
gordc25th is submission date so please let me know any other ideas.15:59
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ildikovdo we know what we are waiting from the answers?15:59
idegtiarov_with options of course15:59
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gordcwe'll get results by summit15:59
gordcso it's something we can talk about then.15:59
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ildikovI mean what would be our take away if people vote on use cases15:59
gordcwe direct resources as appropriately.16:00
gordctimes up16:00
ildikovwould that mean new features, fix issues, help in focusing on Gnocchi, etc.?16:00
gordclet's continue at ceilometer channel.16:00
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daneyon_#startmeeting container-networking18:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Aug 20 18:00:39 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is daneyon_. Information about MeetBot at
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: container-networking)"18:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'container_networking'18:00
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daneyon_#topic roll call18:00
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adrian_ottoAdrian Otto18:01
*** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: container-networking)"18:01
TangoTon Ngo18:01
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s3wongStephen Wong18:02
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suro-patzSurojit Pathak o/18:02
daneyon_I would like to wait a minute for others to join18:02
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apuimedovery well18:03
daneyon_Thank you eghobo adrian_otto Tango tfukushima s3wong apuimedo suro-patz hongbin irenab for attending the meeting18:03
daneyon_#topic Networking Spec Update18:04
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daneyon_Looks like the spec is in a good state18:04
daneyon_adrian_otto is going to review. If all goes well, he will merge the spec.18:05
daneyon_Unless their are any questions about the spec, I would like to move to the next topic.18:05
adrian_ottoI'm ready to merge this. Should I +A the spec now?18:05
daneyon_adrian_otto sounds good18:05
daneyon_I have organized the spec work items into the following blueprints:18:06
eghoboadrian_otto: +118:06
daneyon_The magnum client blueprint:18:06
daneyon_The magnum conductor blueprint:18:06
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daneyon_The api blueprint:18:06
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daneyon_The heat templates blueprint:18:06
adrian_ottospec is now approved for merge18:06
daneyon_The baymodel objects blueprint:18:06
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daneyon_thank you adrian_otto18:07
daneyon_I have posted a few WIP patches. They are far from complete, but I’m making progress.18:07
daneyon_Feel free to review and provide feedback, with the understanding the patches are a WIP.18:07
daneyon_heat templates:18:07
daneyon_other combined blueprints:18:07
daneyon_i just wanted to share this info with the team. feel free to add any feedback in the bp/review18:08
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daneyon_unless their are any questions, I would like to proceed to the Kuryr Integration Brainstorming topic.18:09
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daneyon_i'll pause for a minute18:09
TangoIf others would like to help with the patches, how do they proceed?18:09
daneyon_Tango I have yet to touch the label/labels aspect of the spec18:10
daneyon_remember, label/labels will be used for passing driver-specific params to the network-driver18:11
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daneyon_and we would like to implement label/labels in way that the larger magnum system can take advantage of labels for other areas.18:11
TangoI mean just general help not specific to label18:12
hongbindaneyon_: It looks there is no BPs for tracking neutron/libnetwork/flannel integration. Do you have any plan for that?18:12
daneyon_hongbin kuryr integration will be a follow-on bp18:12
daneyon_Tago I would cherry pick the patches, create a new topic branch that depends on the WIP patches18:14
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daneyon_Tango is that acceptable to you?18:14
Tangodaneyon_: sure, I will follow up offline18:14
daneyon_Tango OK18:15
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daneyon_one moment please18:15
daneyon_i'm back18:15
daneyon_next topic18:16
daneyon_#topic Kuryr Integration Brainstorming18:16
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daneyon_can everyone please open the etherpad18:16
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daneyon_i would like to take 10 minutes for everyone to review and add to the etherpad18:16
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daneyon_any questions/comments/concerns please include in the etherpad instead of irc18:17
apuimedovery well18:17
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daneyon_if you have added anything to the etherpad, please make sure to include your irc handle in the Contributors section18:17
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apuimedowho is the dark blue?18:18
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daneyon_apuimedo that's me.. it should show in the contributors section.18:25
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apuimedoah, cool18:25
apuimedoI picked orange :-)18:26
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daneyon_eghobo adrian_otto Tango tfukushima s3wong apuimedo suro-patz hongbin irenab et al lets close out the etherpad brainstorming at UTC 18:3518:32
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irenabdaneyon_, apuimedo : is it going to be converted into working items for kuryr/magnum?18:33
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daneyon_irenab eventually. right now i simply want our team's to have free form discussion, brainstorming, etc..18:35
daneyon_irenab I could see the work items develop in the near future though18:36
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daneyon_irenab do you find that acceptable?18:36
daneyon_eghobo adrian_otto Tango tfukushima s3wong apuimedo suro-patz hongbin irenab let's bring the discussion back to irc18:36
irenabdaneyon_: yes. I am just new to such kind of discussion :-)18:37
apuimedook, sorry about that :P18:37
apuimedoI was continueing :P18:37
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banixI think the main discussion has to happen (and has partially happened) in Neutron. The main work items are to be executed there.18:37
daneyon_I would like everyone to keep an eye on the etherpad over the next week and add to it as you see fit18:37
apuimedoyamamoto: welcome takashi18:37
apuimedodaneyon_: very good idea. I'll try to review it twice a day18:38
daneyon_#action everyone to continue contributing to the kuryr/magnum networking integration etherpad18:38
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daneyon_does anyone have questions about magnum/kuryr integration that are not being covered in the ep?18:38
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daneyon_apuimedo I know kuryr is focused on bare metal for initial support.18:39
irenabI think its quite important if there is potentially missing functionality in docker, it should be mentioned18:39
apuimedodaneyon_: that's indeed the case. The first release targets bare-metal18:40
daneyon_is their a kuryr bp that we can track for kuryr inside vm's?18:40
apuimedowhile we work on the first release, we work on designing for VM containers for the Magnum integration18:40
apuimedodaneyon_: not yet, since the main purpose of VM containers for us is the integration with Magnum18:41
apuimedowe want to condense the output of the current etherpad into a blueprint18:41
banixapuimedo: are you suggesting kuryr will work on core neutron features? I don’t see without Neutron additional features, kuryr being to move forward on this.18:41
daneyon_apuimedo irenab banix it would be helpful to have a list of bp's, patches, etc.. that kuryr requires from neutron to support your initial relase, i.e.
apuimedobanix: we'll work with and in Neutron where necessary18:42
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apuimedoas soon as we are done with this brainstorming we have to bring the topics in the neutron meetings. Those that have some bp/spec we should collaborate with, Those that don't we have to push18:43
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irenabapuimedo: +118:44
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daneyon_irenab agreed everyone should follow the contributing guidelines of the upstream project (i.e. libnetwork). Reviews, bp's etc should reference the upstream commit, issue, etc..18:44
hongbinI would suggest to list all the BPs/working items in the etherpad (both Magnum and Kuryr)18:44
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Tangohongbin: +118:45
apuimedohongbin: and neutron ;-)18:45
daneyon_Is contributing upstream part of the kuryr mission?18:45
banixkuryr is upstream :)18:45
apuimedowe are part of the Neutron project, so doing in core neutron what belongs there is essential18:46
irenabdaneyon_: upstream == docker?18:46
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apuimedoas for Docker and COEs18:46
apuimedoI don't like maintaining repos18:46
apuimedoso as much as I can put on their repos18:46
apuimedowe will18:47
daneyon_irenab yes docker, libnetwork, kubernetes, etc..18:47
apuimedoI initially wanted kuryr to be in-tree in libnetwork18:47
apuimedoI was quite disappointed when they closed libnetwork to other drivers18:47
apuimedoand it worries me for swarm18:47
apuimedofor Kubernetes I'm sure that if we need a plugin they will be welcoming18:48
apuimedoMesos also looks good in that aspect18:48
irenabdaneyon_: I think at minimum we should open issues, hopefully resolve them as well :-)18:48
daneyon_apuimedo just something to keep in mind for the kuryr project... defining the scope. If you don't contribute to the upstream projects such as libnetwork, then you may run into issues adding support you need.18:48
apuimedoadrian_otto: how is the mesos bay type coming along?18:48
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apuimedodaneyon_: we are opening issues in libnetwork18:48
apuimedoand we'll contribute for the things we need if they let us18:49
daneyon_irenab that's definitly needed.18:49
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apuimedowe are already operating in this way ;-)18:49
hongbinapuimedo: A basic support of Mesos bay type is landed18:49
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apuimedotfukushima can show ;-)18:49
daneyon_apuimedo That's good to hear.18:49
apuimedohongbin: which containerizer does it use? The docker one made in C++ ?18:50
daneyon_We are down to our last 10 minutes, so I would like to go to our next topic18:50
banixhockeynut: where?18:50
banixhongbin: where?18:50
apuimedodaneyon_: very well. Thanks for having us!18:50
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daneyon_#topic Review Action Items18:50
*** openstack changes topic to "Review Action Items (Meeting topic: container-networking)"18:50
hongbinapuimedo: It used the build-in docker containerizer18:50
daneyon_apuimedo yw18:50
apuimedook, that's the C++ nowadays :-)18:51
daneyon_apuimedo I will keep kuryr integration brainstorming on the agenda for next week. It would be helpful if someone from the kuryr team could join again.18:51
daneyon_ACTION: danehans to contact tcammann to ask for an updated vote on the net spec18:51
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daneyon_tcammann gave a +2 to the spec18:51
daneyon_ACTION: danehans to send a formal request to the kuryr team for participation in our next meeting on 8/2018:51
daneyon_and thanks to everyone from the kuryr team for joining and for the continued collaboration.18:52
daneyon_ACTION: adrian_otto formally request the Neutron/Kuryr PTL submit a Kuryr design spec.18:52
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daneyon_I saw that adrian_otto sent the message to the ML18:52
daneyon_thanks adrian_otto18:52
daneyon_and here is the kuryr design spec:18:53
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daneyon_it's a wip18:53
eghoboadrian_otto: who is Kuryr PTL?18:53
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daneyon_it would be great if everyone could review18:53
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daneyon_#action everyone review the kuryr design spec
daneyon_eghobo I don't believe their community has performed a ptl vote yet18:54
daneyon_#topic Open Discussion18:55
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daneyon_I thought the clear containers thing from Intel/Rkt is interesting18:55
daneyon_adrian_otto i hope all is well with your family thing18:56
apuimedodaneyon_: indeed. Would you say it is like hyper but for rkt?18:56
adrian_ottothanks daneyon_18:57
daneyon_adrian_otto pls let me know if you need any networking related updates for your silicon valley openstack meeting18:57
daneyon_apuimedo that's kind of how i see it18:57
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adrian_ottodaneyon_: Thanks, will do.18:57
apuimedodaneyon_: in fact, sometimes I think that it would be much, much easier to network clearcontainers and hyper18:57
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apuimedoand make K8s and swarm use them18:58
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daneyon_adrian_otto any news from GOOG regarding magnum participation?18:58
apuimedoit's soo much easier :P18:58
adrian_ottonot yet18:58
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daneyon_adrian_otto OK, thx18:58
daneyon_Our time is up18:59
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daneyon_Thanks to everyone for joining and have a great rest of your week!18:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"18:59
openstackMeeting ended Thu Aug 20 18:59:35 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:59
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tfukushimadaneyon_: Thanks for being our host.18:59
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