Monday, 2015-08-24

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ttxlifeless: it's on the agenda. Cheers07:42
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lifelessttx: thanks07:43
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ttxdhellmann: around?12:59
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dhellmannttx: o/13:01
ttxdims, lifeless: convenience ping in case you're around13:01
ttx#startmeeting releaseteam13:01
openstackMeeting started Mon Aug 24 13:01:33 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.13:01
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'releaseteam'13:01
ttxHad a number of topics ti discuss, with liberty-3 / feature freeze coming up next week13:01
ttxThe first one is the Oslo libraries stable branches13:02
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ttxfollowing the recent thread13:02
ttxI keep on getting more confused, maybe we changed too many things13:02
ttxWe had a plan out of that crazy session outside in YVR13:03
ttxI posted it on the thread13:03
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dhellmannyeah, I'm reading that now13:03
ttxSo I'm surprised that we don't need stable branches to achieve that plan now13:03
dhellmannI don't see dims on line right now13:03
dhellmannI don't think anyone said we didn't need them?13:04
dhellmannlifeless suggested we may not need requirements caps13:04
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ttxhe said "stable branches are orthogonal to constraints IMO. If the only reason for the stable branch is the capped requirements, then I would not make the branch."13:05
dhellmannbecause we'll have the constraints system to protect us at first, and we can add caps later for individual libs if we need to13:05
ttxpretty much "we don't need them"13:05
dhellmannyeah, but that's not the only reason13:05
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ttxright, which means we need to take them into account in the constraints checks13:05
dhellmannas I pointed out later in the thread, landing changes in master becomes a mess if we don't have stable branches, because we have to test against the stable branch as well as master and then remove that testing when we have an incompatible change to make13:06
dhellmannI think for the constraints what we do is leave requirements in libraries uncapped for good and leave requirements in servers uncapped *for now*13:06
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dhellmanncreate stable branches for everything (order to be determined)13:07
ttxagreed. I just worry about that "Enable master->stable cross-check"13:07
ttxwhich is very much to make contrsinats work in a stable-full world13:07
sdaguedhellmann: I think it's just a trade off between managing backports vs. ensuring there are stable jobs on libs13:07
dhellmannand then as we release new versions of the libraries, test them with constraint changes in the stable branches, and if they don't work introduce a cap instead13:07
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dhellmannsdague: the problem isn't making sure we have stable jobs, it's rushing to remove them when they start breaking our ability to land changes in master because we raise a minimum requirement somewhere13:08
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sdaguedhellmann: right, gotcha13:08
dhellmannsdague: which is sort of the reverse of what we have now, where master changes break stable13:08
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dhellmannI think with the constraints system fully in place, we're safe to not have caps until we actually discover an incompatibility somewhere, at which point it's relatively easy to do that13:09
dhellmannit's not clear we have enough of the constraints work in place, yet, though13:09
ttxdhellmann: regarding "as we release new versions of the libraries, test them with constraint changes in the stable branches, and if they don't work introduce a cap instead" ... does that mean we may end up with stable branches being tested with library versions that are on master ?13:09
dhellmannthe tox stuff, in particular13:09
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dhellmannttx: we could have that if we explicitly update the constraints to allow it, yes13:09
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sdaguedhellmann: right, I don't know exactly what lifeless has left13:10
ttxdhellmann: under the current rules, we are supposed to accept any constraint change that passes tests13:10
ttxstable branches would be frozen ?13:10
sdaguettx: fwiw, that's the way this always used to work. The idea of stable branches in libraries is relatively new.13:10
dhellmannsdague: yeah, he mentioned being blocked on some sort of governance change in his email to update the testing interface, but I think we can do that in parallel if not after the fact13:11
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ttxsdague: right, but that means we may release a .Z version on a stable branch and never test with it13:11
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dhellmannI would expect us to be making far fewer changes to the constraints on the stable branch than on master, but I wouldn't consider it frozen13:12
dhellmannand I would definitely expect us to update it if we need a stable release of a library13:12
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sdagueso, honestly, there are a lot of moving parts here. I'd suggest instead of everyone trying to keep it in their heads, get some bits written down with diagrams about the scenarios.13:12
dhellmanngiven the rate at which we update some of these libs, I don't think we want to tell a deployer the only place they can get a fix for 1.2.x is in 1.15.x13:13
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ttxdhellmann: trying to see how that would work with the automated constraints bump suggestions.13:13
ttxwe would disable that on stable ?13:13
sdagueso, constraints shouldn't be landed in libraries13:13
ttxor we would apply totally different rules on master vs. stable requirements ?13:13
dhellmannttx: maybe, that's a good question. We should get lifeless to chime in on this. I agree with sdague we need a good write-up13:13
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ttxsdague: we did diagrams and scenarios. It's just that we may not be were we were supposed to be13:14
sdaguettx: url ?13:14
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ttxwhiteboards in YVR that were posted on the ML at some point13:15
dhellmannsdague: I think
dhellmannthose are the notes from the summit, at least13:15
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dhellmannre-reading them, they're pretty raw13:16
sdagueright, those are the notes. My suggestion is to turn them into a more detailed doc13:16
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sdaguebecause I think those notes can be interpretted differently, and some of the tricky specifics need to be fleshed out13:17
sdaguemostly for clarity, it's just a lot to keep in mental ram13:17
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dhellmannttx: do you have time to start that, or should I put it on my list? Where do we want it to live?13:18
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ttxdhellmann: my gut feeling is that we built a system that is orthogonal to stable branches (like lifeless said), and putting stable branches back into it is likely to take more than the week we have to figure it out13:19
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dhellmannttx: ok, I always understood the changes we were making to be on top of stable branches, so I'm surprised to hear that.13:20
ttxdhellmann: in particular, my impression is that the system is designed to work with a single channel of releases13:20
dhellmannif we don't create stable branches, we need to have test jobs for changes to master versions of all of the libraries running against stable versions of the server code13:20
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dhellmannand if we have that, we need some sort of quick response plan for the day a team is blocked making changes because we've introduced an incompatible dependency in master so that the master version of the lib no longer works with the stable version of the app -- that will happen, it happens all the time13:21
ttxdhellmann: I think we need stable branches. Otherwise you need to branch whenever the library starts to implement changes that don't work with the previous release13:21
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ttxeither to mark that beforehand13:21
dhellmannok, I thought you were saying we didn't need them13:21
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sdagueso, it's not a terrible thing to make libraries have that level of compatibility13:22
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sdaguethat just means interfaces need a couple cycles to be dropped13:22
ttxdhellmann: no, I'm surprised to discover lifeless thinks we don't need them.13:22
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dhellmannsdague: the issue is not usually with our code (though that does certainly come up), it's with wanting to add a dependency on a new thing (or a new version of a thing) we don't control, and having *that* break the stable branches13:23
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ttxstablea branches are just about freezing the state every 6 months so that maintaining it working is easier13:23
sdaguedhellmann: ok, so, perhaps documenting some cases of when that happened will make it more clear13:23
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ttxdhellmann: ok, I'll start a thread on the stable/release/requirements process, beyond only Oslo13:25
ttxno point in discussing that without Robert13:25
sdagueanyway, probably worth figuring out lifeless's plan here13:25
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ttxSecond topic I had is about intermediary-released thingies and RCs13:25
ttxHistorically Swift was the only thing we did intermediary-releases for (beyond libs)13:26
ttxWe would just push a tag there13:26
ttxbut the "coordinated" swift end-of-cycle release still used RCs13:26
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ttxwe would create a release branch there and tag rc113:27
ttxTo be consistent I think we need to just tag there13:27
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ttxthe supposedly-final release13:27
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ttxand bump Z in case we need to have another "candidate"13:27
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ttxin summary...13:28
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ttxfor projects with intermediary releases, the fnal release candidates are just intermediary releases13:28
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ttxand you just do another one on the stable/liberty release branch if it's too broken.13:29
dhellmannyes, I think that's what I was expecting. release:cycle-with-intermediary projects don't tag betas or RCs, just actual releases.13:29
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ttxright. That means we need to communicate that to Swift13:29
ttxsince that's a change to them.13:29
ttxI'll talk with notmyname about it13:29
ttxI think they never wanted to have the final release being different than others anyway, but better doublecheck13:30
dhellmannif he objects, I wouldn't have a problem with making that process change next cycle13:30
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ttxdhellmann: it came up when I started updating the rc*.sh scripts13:30
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ttx#action ttx to reach out to notmyname about the need for RCs for the "final" swift release of the cycle13:31
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ttx#action ttx to start a wider thread about the stable/release/requirements process, beyond only Oslo13:31
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ttxdhellmann: my next topics were about stable branch releases and release notes. But there may be other "urgent" topics to discuss before ?13:32
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dhellmannI don't have anything urgent, so let's keep going with your agenda13:33
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ttx#topic Stable branch releases from liberty on13:33
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ttxCurrent state of that is well summarized as options in :13:34
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ttxTag-every-commit vs. Time to time tagging13:34
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ttxHave any preference ?13:35
ttxAt this stage I'm willing to opt for the less disruptive and less work13:35
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ttxi.e. "Time to time tagging"13:35
dhellmannyeah, I think time-to-time makes sense13:35
dhellmannthat can always devolve into every commit, if we need it to13:36
ttxI can see how it fails to reach the original objectives, so I sympathetize to Daviey13:36
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ttxbut yeah, easier to evolve from there13:36
dhellmannbut I'm also inclined to see how far we can stretch that time between tags13:36
ttxgood incremental step13:36
dhellmannmaybe with projects or distros asking for tags when they feel they are needed13:36
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ttxAlso a good thing to have release automation fully in place and see how much it changes things13:37
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ttx#agreed Release team leaning toward "Time to time tagging" for stable/liberty as a more realistic objective and good incremental step13:37
dhellmannoh, on stable branches we do post-versioning, right?13:38
ttxI think we currently do pre-versioning13:38
ttxbut I don't think that's hard to change there13:39
dhellmannyeah, we just need to remove the version string from setup.cfg13:39
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ttxanything else before we move to stable release notes ?13:39
ttxI'll take that as no13:40
ttx#topic Stable release notes13:40
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dhellmannno, sorry, phone rang13:40
ttxSo on this topic there might be more work involved13:40
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dhellmannI like the idea of having the release notes in tree. The scheme lifeless described seemed a bit more complex than necessary13:41
ttxI think the two solutions are: lifeless's YAML directory for semi-continuous release note generation, and a single file in the root of the directory13:41
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dhellmanncould we not just have a relnotes subdir under doc/source and let sphinx build the final document for us?13:41
ttxoh, you're suggesting something in between now13:42
dhellmannyeah, we get the merge protection of lifeless' yaml proposal without having to build any new software13:42
dhellmannwe could even have relnotes/$SERIES/*.rst and just keep the notes published forever13:42
ttxdhellmann: yeah, I was thinking that part (determining which release notes to build) was a bit over the top13:43
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ttxdhellmann: are docs generated as part of the tarball creation ?13:43
dhellmannI think so, but I'm not certain13:44
dhellmannfungi: do you know if docs are built as part of tarball creation? ^^13:44
ttxI can check really quick13:44
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dhellmannI don't get them in an sdist13:45
ttxyeah, can't find them in built tarballs on tarballs.o.o either13:45
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dhellmannok, so that may not be optimal13:47
ttxSo... we can still brainstorm solutions there. I guess plan B is to edit a single file (or let whoever triggers the time-to-time release update it before tagging)13:47
ttxso we have a backup plan if we can't come up with something good before stable/liberty is cut13:48
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dhellmannanother benefit of keeping them in tree is we could encourage reviewers to require them as patches are made13:49
ttxyeah, that's the main argument for it13:49
dhellmannof course it opens us up to having notes changed for clarity after the fact, and then those changes not being backported, but I think we can live with that13:49
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dhellmannoh, I thought we were doing this because without official stable releases we didn't have anyone doing the gathering13:50
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ttxHow would you reconcile building release notes continusouly and post-versioning ? We would generate a RELEASENOTES-NEXT.rst that would contain untagged notes ?13:50
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dhellmannif we go with the sphinx idea and group the notes by release series, we can have an N directory until N gets its name, and then that can be renamed. Or we could just use the letters to avoid having URLs change13:51
dhellmannthen release notes would be published live in the docs for the project as soon as the patch lands, and would be included in a discoverable directory afterwards13:52
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dhellmannif we want one big release notes file in the tarball, to complement the file published on, we could make pbr build that for us13:52
dhellmannit could do something with docutils to convert the rst to plain text and concatenate the results together or something13:53
ttxhmm, you need release notes per version, not per series13:53
ttxalthough you can group them in a single file per series I guess13:53
dhellmannoh, true13:53
ttxyou need to at least write them to a version13:53
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ttxhence my question on how to write to the "next" version in postver13:54
ttxwe'll likely need some placeholder13:54
dhellmannI guess this is why lifeless' proposal was more complex :-)13:54
ttxHe is often right, which makes it difficult to constantly disagree with him.13:54
* dhellmann can't believe he has been building release notes management systems for nearly 20 years now13:55
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ttxok, so I should have a side releaseteam-meeting with lifeless on APAC-friendly time (my tomorrow morning) to clarify both things13:56
dhellmannand I should re-read his proposal13:56
ttx#topic Open discussion13:56
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dhellmannyou saw that I submitted all of the release tag changes?13:57
ttxAnything else ? I'm a bit panicked because it feels like we changed the engine to the train, I don't know how it works anymore, the train is full speed ahead and the next train station is next week13:57
ttxyes I saw that. I'll have a deep look soon13:57
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dhellmannI'm a little worried, but I think the only thing we actually have to solve by next week is understanding the order to do the tagging/branching13:58
ttxalso, the mechanic of the train leaves on the opposite side of the world13:58
jokke_ttx: ? :)13:58
dhellmannthe release notes thing we can always do in the stable branches directly, we don't need that in master, yet13:58
ttxand I make funny english mistakes, too13:58
dhellmannttx: I read it with a french accent, so I understood what you meant ;-)13:58
dhellmannwhat else is inducing panic?13:59
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ttxstable branch / RC / cut order. I think we'll fumble it again this time13:59
ttxI'm missing too many pages of that book to be sure.14:00
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ttxCan't wait until I reach firefighting stage and not panic anymore14:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"14:00
openstackMeeting ended Mon Aug 24 14:00:52 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)14:00
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openstackMinutes (text):
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boris-42#startmeeting Rally14:04
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openstackMeeting started Mon Aug 24 14:04:40 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is boris-42. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:04
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Rally)"14:04
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'rally'14:04
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boris-42hi hi14:04
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boris-42hi hi14:07
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boris-42#topic Meeting agenda14:07
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boris-42if somebody would like to discuss something please add it to meeting agenda14:07
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boris-42#topic [andreykurilin] The critical number of outdated patches on review.14:08
*** openstack changes topic to "[andreykurilin] The critical number of outdated patches on review. (Meeting topic: Rally)"14:08
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andreykurilin__we have a lot of patches, which are almost ready, but authors are gone14:09
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andreykurilin__So I suggest to pay attention to these patches and finish them.14:09
boris-42andreykurilin__: so maybe we should create some list14:10
boris-42andreykurilin__: with priorities and reasons (why patch is not finished)14:10
andreykurilin__boris-42: yes, maybe it will help14:11
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boris-42andreykurilin__: so people will know that they can just take these patches (like bug) and just finish them14:11
rvasilets__Then we need to reassign outdated patches:-)14:11
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andreykurilin__rvasilets: just put "co-authored" to commit message14:11
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andreykurilin__Currently we have more than 150 patches on review14:12
kun_huangyep, I did something like this before14:12
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rvasilets__Reassign means to give someone task to finish patch for example14:12
rvasilets__For example, roma please finish patch 12345614:13
andreykurilin__Also, I found that several patches are already implemented by another changes, so we can abandon them14:13
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andreykurilin__rvasilets__: we can create a table at google docs with list of patches and reasons(something like "contains small nits"), so everyone will be able to find a patch to maintain and finish it14:15
boris-42+1 for table14:15
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rvasilets__Good idea14:16
andreykurilin__boris-42: Of course you're +1 for the table. it was your suggestion:)14:16
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boris-42andreykurilin__: okay I am +2 fot the table LOL14:17
kun_huanganyone prefer etherpad?14:17
kun_huang=, =14:18
andreykurilin__kun_huang: Does etherpad supports tables?14:18
kun_huangjust simple list14:18
kun_huanggoogle is hard blocked in china :(14:18
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andreykurilin__ok, we should think more about how to store such table14:19
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boris-42andreykurilin__: just excel14:19
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boris-42andreykurilin__: 1 column first line of commit message second url third reason why it's not done14:20
boris-42andreykurilin__: I can prepare initial version of itt14:20
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andreykurilin__another question: Should we abandon changes after they will be added to the table or leave them? From one point of view: if changes will be abandoned, cores will be able to restore them and list of open reviews will contain only uptodate patches.14:21
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boris-42andreykurilin__: I don't want to abandon them14:21
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andreykurilin__boris-42: because it will require involvement from core team each time?14:22
boris-42andreykurilin__: because we should see issues14:24
boris-42andreykurilin__: not hide them14:24
andreykurilin__btw, what about using wiki page for the table?14:24
andreykurilin__boris-42, kun_huang : ^14:24
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boris-42andreykurilin__: sound good14:25
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boris-42okay next topic14:26
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boris-42stannie: hi there14:26
boris-42stannie: how things are going?)14:27
stanniefine thx :)14:27
rvasilets__Wiki is good14:27
boris-42ok let it be wiki14:28
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boris-42now next topic14:28
boris-42#topic [boris-42] Updates about switching to Plugin base.14:28
*** openstack changes topic to "[boris-42] Updates about switching to Plugin base. (Meeting topic: Rally)"14:28
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boris-42okay guys with help of MetaClasses we can do switching to plugin base in case of scenarios smoother14:29
boris-42Like we don't need to introduce anything else from what we have now in our scenario.configure() and it will work with Plugin base14:30
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boris-42This patch finishes large amount of work that will allow us to cleanup a lot of code14:30
andreykurilin__yes, metaclasses are nice:)14:30
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boris-42like we will be able to have @types and @validators, deprecation mechanism & info unified and one code that works with all types of plugins14:31
boris-42less code less bugs=)14:31
boris-42any questions?14:33
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boris-42okay great14:33
boris-42#topic Open discussion14:33
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boris-42anything to discuss?)14:33
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andreykurilin__next release date:) it would be nice to have release at 14 September, so we will able to return to our 2-weeks cycle14:35
andreykurilin__boris-42: ^14:35
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rvasilets__Is it too much?)14:36
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boris-42andreykurilin__: heh sounds good=)14:36
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boris-42or we can cut it this week14:36
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boris-42because what we need is task.abort and basically this patch that switches to plugin base14:36
boris-42rest can wait14:37
andreykurilin__boris-42: what about new reports?14:37
boris-42andreykurilin__: they may wait14:37
boris-42andreykurilin__: in any case nothing is stoping us to review in merge them14:37
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andreykurilin__nothing else from my side.14:38
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boris-42let's finish this meeting14:40
boris-42see you next week14:40
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"14:40
openstackMeeting ended Mon Aug 24 14:40:41 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)14:40
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asselinanyone here for 3rd party meeting?15:04
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anteaya#startmeeting third-party15:04
openstackMeeting started Mon Aug 24 15:04:36 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:04
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)"15:04
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'third_party'15:04
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anteayaasselin: thanks for getting up early :)15:04
anteayahow is everyone today?15:04
asselinlast week we had nodepool issues15:05
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asselin#link nodepool issues
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asselinseems it's been hitting others as well, so read ^^ for solutions to get nodepool working again15:06
anteayaso we would like to begin by discussing nodepool?15:06
mmedvedewe actually pin nodepool to a certain version to avoid such surprises15:07
anteayathanks for introducing the topic asselin15:07
asselinmmedvede, how do you pin?15:07
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asselinbut either way, still not sure why it broke....15:08
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patrickeastone thing kind of related, i have been having issues with my ci system killing vm's part-way through, in an effort to fix that i manually went and set my nodepool to v0.1.1 and zuul to v2.1.1 (at least i think those are the latest versions)15:09
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patrickeasti see that the nodepool and zuul puppet classes have a revision parameter, but i don't think we put that in the openstackci one15:09
patrickeastwas that intentional?15:09
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patrickeasti'm having much better results running on the older 'release' version instead of tip of tree15:09
mmedvedeasselin: I specify nodepool branch to use in my puppet manifest15:10
asselinpatrickeast, yea, should work on adding that15:10
asselinwell, using that15:11
patrickeastasselin: ok cool, i can put up a patch to do it, just wanted to check and see if that was by design or not15:11
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asselinI wonder if nodepool/zuul have release tags that can be used15:11
anteayapatrickeast: v0.1.1 for nodepool is a released tag, the latest tag for zuul is v2.1.015:12
patrickeastahh yea 2.1.0 for zuul15:12
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anteayaso if you have v2.1.1 it is some commit after the latest tag15:12
patrickeastanteaya: those are what i'm using, to much better effect than master15:12
anteayapatrickeast: I'm glad you are having good results15:12
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asselinpatrickeast, if you have time, put up a patch & i'll review15:13
mmedvedeThere are a few useful commits after tagged commit, so I am using the commit sha as the revision15:13
anteayaasselin: both nodepool and zuul have release tags, yes15:13
asselinmmedvede, so which is a better default, latest release tag or master?15:13
patrickeastdoes infra use the tagged versions?15:13
asselinI beleive they use master15:14
anteayanot that I am aware15:14
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anteayayes I too believe we use master of all our tools15:14
patrickeastmaybe its worth figuring out kind of a stable recommended point for the 3rd party ci systems15:14
asselinpatrickeast, +115:15
anteayawell the problem with a recommendation is it gets old15:15
patrickeastyea definitely15:15
anteayaand many operators don't follow what we recommend anyway15:15
mmedvedeasselin: I normally use something that works, then manually review new commits, and switch to a new pin if it seems safe15:15
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anteayaI'm fine if by talking to each other your decide tag x and tag y are the flavour d'jour15:15
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anteayabut please don't communicate that further than the meeting logs15:16
anteayaor irc conversation15:16
anteayaas it just proves fodder for someone to drag their heels15:16
anteaya"your recommendation didn't work for me, so I don't have to do what you say"15:16
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patrickeasti can understand that, but right now we recommend master... which also doesn't always work15:17
asselinwell, the good news is that there's a nodepool ci job that caught the issue and showed the fix solve it15:17
anteayasorry but unfortunately we are limited by the more relucant operators when trying to mix up standards15:17
anteayawell master works for infra15:17
anteayaand part of the point is to help upstream15:17
anteayaso if it doesn't work, then it helps everyone to find out why and offer a patch15:18
anteayathat is the point of open source work15:18
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asselinanteaya, actually in this case it worked for infra b/c nodepool wasn't restarted.15:18
anteayafair enough15:18
asselinhence the urgency infra team had to help fix it15:18
anteayaand yay for the nodepool ci job15:18
anteayaand that is the nature of the workflow15:18
anteayafraught with hazards15:19
anteayabut we all have the same problems15:19
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anteayaand hopefully the same commitment to getting them working, for everyone15:19
anteayathird party ci systems are proving valuable in that regard15:20
anteayathey are sometimes finding issues before infra does15:20
anteayaand that is very very helpful15:20
asselinyeah, I guess our ci down saved the world. :)15:20
anteayafor instance jgriffith found the openstack-client-config issue 2 weeks ago before anyone else did15:20
anteayaasselin: it happens15:21
anteayaand thanks for taking your turn15:21
anteayawe really really appreciate it15:21
* asselin will start making tshirts15:21
anteayaso we were able to find a fix for the openstack-client-config issue and tag a new release prior to it hitting the gate and more third party ci systems15:21
anteayaasselin: :)15:22
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anteayaso it is painful, yes it is15:22
anteayaand frustrating, most certainly15:22
anteayabut in the long run it helps everyone15:22
asselinanteaya, what was the issue with openstack-client-config?15:22
anteayawhich for most folks in open source is the point of being in open source15:22
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* anteaya digs up the ml thread15:23
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anteayathank you15:25
patrickeasti'm a little bit confused, these are different issues the openstack-client-config thing was an issue with openstack ie the product we are supposed to be testing, not with nodepool/zuul/shade/etc, i can totally understand wanting to help test out and act as a canary for the infra team, but i have a dev-ci system for that... why should i allow my live system15:25
patrickeastbreak and block patches in cinder? why should we say that is ok for all third party ci systems?15:25
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patrickeastimo there should still be a 'stable' point to work off of15:25
anteayaI'm not stopping you from running any version of the tools you wish to run15:26
patrickeastbut i have to keep it a secret?15:26
anteayanor am I stopping you from discussing with others15:26
anteayaI will not stand behind any version combination as recommended15:26
BobBallI completely agree with patrickeast - I think as 3rd party CI operators we should run a common system in a known good configuration, including specific tags15:26
anteayayou want to make recommendations as patrickeast, I can't stop you15:27
anteayaBobBall: I am not stopping you15:27
anteayainfra is not going to be issuing recommendations in that regard15:27
anteayaother than running what we run15:27
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mmedvedeLiving on the tip normally means your CI system would be in almost constant state of fighting random fires15:27
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patrickeastmaybe then its a question for a different venue, but why isn't infra using tagged releases? wouldn't have help alieve issues with the gate too?15:28
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anteayaany the tests don't catch15:28
BobBallSo you're just saying  "Infra runs master, a group of 3rd party CI operators run according to doc over there -->"15:28
anteayaI am saying that I am not making any more recommendations15:28
anteayaas the ones we have now are not followed15:28
patrickeastanteaya: understood15:29
anteayaif you read the prohetstor ci and microsoft ci threads on the mailing list15:29
anteayapersonally I would have cut both loose long ago15:29
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anteayabut I support thingee's attempts to help them15:29
anteayaand will not widen the gap to make his job tougher15:29
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anteayaI hear what you are saying15:30
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anteayaand I totally get it15:30
anteayayou want your systems to work15:30
anteayaa very good goal15:30
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mmedvedewe want to help upstream too :)15:30
anteayaI just can't choose your goal over the ptl's goal15:30
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anteayawhich is to try to help those who wish to be included15:30
anteayammedvede: thanks :)15:30
mmedvedebut we have limited time resources15:30
anteayaI always hope for that as a goal15:30
* anteaya nods15:30
anteayayes I get that too15:30
anteayaloud and clear15:31
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anteayaso talking amoungst yourselves about best practices?15:31
anteayalovely I my heart applaudes every time I see it15:31
asselinpersonally for our 3rd party ci, I don't mind to use master. However we also have internal ci systems we use for non-openstack, and plan to change those to tags/commits.15:31
anteayaannouncing to the world the one truth path? that at best has a stale date on it15:32
anteayaand won't be in the group supporting that direction15:32
patrickeasthaha i still dont understand, thats the whole point of the converged openstack ci infrastructure isnt it?15:32
patrickeastif we didn't want a 'true path' why are we doing that?15:32
asselinI don't think recommending the latest tag is a bad recommendation15:32
anteayapatrickeast: we are using the same tools yes15:32
BobBallasselin: Can we get puppet to automatically determine the last tag, or do we have to provide a named tag?15:33
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asselinBobBall, good question. one way to do it would be to install for pypi15:34
anteayapatrickeast: if we have everyone following the same menu, then updating the menu with the soup d'jour is easy15:34
patrickeastanteaya: yea that makes perfect sense to me, what i don't get is the resistance to improve our current soups flavor in the mean-time just because not everyone is on the same menu15:35
anteayabecause not everyone is on the same menu15:35
patrickeastso? they will be as left behind and screwed as they were yesterday15:36
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patrickeastor if they figure it out, more power to them15:36
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anteayacan you recognize the difference between an agreement at a meeting and making a recommendation to the mailing list15:36
anteayathen that is the difference15:36
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jgriffithpatrickeast: just from my perspective... I *thought* the point was to make it "easier" for folks to deploy/run CI and have commonality so those that need help can get it15:36
patrickeastjgriffith: exactly!15:37
anteayafolks whose level of comprehension includes reading logs can handle the information in the context it is offered15:37
patrickeastjgriffith: and what i'm advocating for is to make it easier15:37
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jgriffithpatrickeast: yes, but NOT to say... this is the only way to do it and we shouldn't expect things to be able to be deployed real-time15:37
anteayaare we going to spend all meeting on this?15:37
jgriffithanteaya: hehe... sorry :)15:37
anteayajust checking in case anyone has anything else they want to talk about15:37
patrickeastanteaya: sorry, didn't mean to hijack the meeting15:37
anteayajgriffith: not at all, glad you are here15:37
* jgriffith is being quiet on that topic now15:37
anteayajgriffith: no no no, stay15:38
BobBallWhat I'd like to see is the 3rd party CI operators coming up with a set of scripts + (updating) set of tags for a known-good CI.  That doesn't need to be an Infra recommendation, as anteaya points out15:38
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anteayait is just that we just launced into this15:38
jgriffithanteaya: Oh, I'll stay for sure, just letting that topic go :)15:38
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anteayawithout me getting a clear sense of the room15:38
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anteayaso I still don't know if people had other things or want to use all the time for this15:38
anteayaBobBall: agreed and good summary15:38
anteayaoperators talking to operators is a great dynamic15:39
asselinfrom my point of view, first get everything on the same scripts on master, then add e.g. toggle switch to use latest released/tagged version.15:39
anteayabut my default is looking to where we point people for support15:39
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BobBallagreed asselin15:39
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anteayaso happy to point them to other operators for those who don't understand15:40
anteayaasselin: yup15:40
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anteayaasselin: that sounds good to me too15:40
anteayaposts to the mailing list usually just send folks to infra channel15:40
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anteayaso having a play to address that flood when it happens is good to have in place15:40
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anteayaso again, very supportive of the early direction of the conversation, which was y'all figuring out what versions work best for you15:41
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asselinok I started this topic....I'm done15:42
anteayathanks asselin, a good conversation15:42
anteayadoes anyone have anything more on this topic?15:42
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anteayadoes anyone have anything else they would like to discuss?15:43
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anteayapatrickeast: so you were going to submit a patch to puppet-openstackci to include a version parameter?15:44
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patrickeastanteaya: yes15:44
anteayagreat thank you15:44
anteayadoes anyone have any reason why I shouldn't close the meeting today?15:45
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anteayathank you everyone for your kind attendance and participation15:45
anteayasee you all next week15:45
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openstackMeeting ended Mon Aug 24 15:45:56 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:45
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NikolayM#startmeeting Mistral16:01
openstackMeeting started Mon Aug 24 16:01:06 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is NikolayM. Information about MeetBot at
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Mistral)"16:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'mistral'16:01
NikolayMhi everyone!16:01
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akuznetsovahi !16:01
gpazHi everyone16:01
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xylan_konghi, guys16:02
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NikolayMlet's start16:02
NikolayM#topic Review action items16:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Review action items (Meeting topic: Mistral)"16:02
NikolayM1. rakhmerov, nikolaym: provide recommendations on how to test
NikolayMit seems it wasn't done16:04
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NikolayMgpaz, could you comment on that?16:04
gpazprovided... I think ... Renat comment in the ticket..16:04
NikolayMthe patch is related to ctx in expiration policy16:04
NikolayMooh, ok, I didn't know16:04
gpazI didnt have a chance to work on that probably start doing that this week16:04
gpaz(in the last few day we had some demo - that include Mistral by the way)16:05
NikolayMcool :)16:05
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gpazthe buttom line renat wrote some comment I will take a look and try to use that16:06
NikolayMthanks for explanation16:06
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NikolayM2.  nikolaym break down into smaller BPs16:06
NikolayMthis one is done16:06
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NikolayMnow there are about 8 BPs about documentation16:07
^Gal^nice :)16:07
NikolayM3. rakhmerov start ML discussion about the best approach for
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NikolayMI don't exactly know status of this16:08
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NikolayMbut anyway, I didn't see a thread with that topic in ML16:08
xylan_kongneither do I16:09
NikolayMso, let's schedule it for the next meeting16:10
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NikolayM#action rakhmerov: start ML discussion about the best approach for
NikolayMnext topic - current status16:11
NikolayM#topic Current status16:11
*** openstack changes topic to "Current status (Meeting topic: Mistral)"16:11
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NikolayMguys, let's tell current status16:11
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^Gal^I'm on mistral dashboard execution screen - execution update, doing good16:12
xylan_kongI'm working on the pagination support in Mistral, have it supported on workflow and action, do some review and bug fix16:12
^Gal^ill start the pagination thing tomorrow16:12
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gpazAs I wrote in the pass days I was working on internal Alcatel stuff . I need to complete the fix for bug (add test)16:12
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xylan_kong^Gal^: if you need help, or you have question about execution pagination, please contact me16:12
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m4dcoderI've started working on the postgresql tests again. No resolution yet.16:13
rakhmerovhi all16:13
NikolayMmy status: working on the documentation, install guide and config guide are already on the review16:13
^Gal^xylan_kong: thanks appreciate16:13
NikolayMhi rakhmerov!16:13
rakhmerovsorry for being late16:13
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xylan_kongrakhmerov: hi16:13
rakhmerovNikolayM: please continue16:13
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rakhmerovbtw, I didn't start ML discussion yet about execution origin16:14
rakhmerovbut I have an email draft about that )16:14
rakhmerovmy status: made several patches to fix cycles in direct workflow16:14
rakhmerovand a couple of patches to openstack requirements and infra16:14
rakhmerovplanning to continue with refactoring and testing workflow cycles (there are still some issues in it)16:15
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NikolayMbtw, I fixed all patches related to with-items concurrency and they were merged last week16:16
xylan_kongNikolayM: good job16:16
NikolayMxylan_kong: thx :)16:16
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NikolayMnext topic16:17
m4dcoderNikolayM, I posted a bug on with-items concurrency last Friday. apparently if the concurrency is YAQL, it doesn't work.16:17
rakhmerovooh, interesting16:18
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NikolayMm4dcoder, yep, I saw that bug16:18
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NikolayMand it can really take place here16:18
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NikolayMok, I'll fix it this week16:19
NikolayM#topic Liberty-3 progress16:19
*** openstack changes topic to "Liberty-3 progress (Meeting topic: Mistral)"16:19
^Gal^Ui-wise, we have some schedule problems with task screen16:20
rakhmerovtask screen?16:21
^Gal^yeah Liat's blueprint16:21
rakhmerovyou mean you don't seem to have time for it?16:21
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rakhmerovtill the end of l-316:21
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^Gal^it the screen I talk to you about earlier, Liat's on vacatyion16:21
rakhmerovI see16:22
rakhmerovthanks for letting us know16:22
^Gal^sure np16:22
rakhmerovI'll reassign it to someone else then16:22
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^Gal^sure, she had the task overview page done16:22
^Gal^i would commit it tomorrow16:23
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rakhmerovso on that topic (L-3 progress) I exactly wanted to ask you all if you see any issues with getting your BPs/bugs done16:23
rakhmerovshould you have any concerns let us know16:24
rakhmerovNikolayM: I see that you assigned all documentation BPs to L-316:24
rakhmerovis it by mistake you're really planning to get them all done?16:24
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rakhmerov..or you're..16:25
NikolayMI'll try to do them all16:25
rakhmerovhm... you feel brave! :)16:25
rakhmerovit's good16:25
rakhmerovNikolayM: please update their statuses16:26
rakhmerovthey are now all marked as "Unknown"16:26
rakhmerovand assign all you're planning to work on to yourself16:27
NikolayMI reassign all on which I don't have much time16:27
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NikolayMyep, I mark only ones I am starting to work on16:27
rakhmerovok, great16:28
rakhmerovI just went over the BPs and it seems like we're mostly fine16:28
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rakhmerovwe have one and a half weeks16:29
rakhmerovit's ok16:29
xylan_kongrakhmerov: i found some of my bps were 'lost'...16:29
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rakhmerovwe need to try to push most of the patches this week16:29
^Gal^btw, post code freeze, we don't currently have any bugs on mistral-dashboard (correct me if I'm wrong) so what should we work on after?16:29
rakhmerovxylan_kong: which ones?16:29
xylan_kongrakhmerov: the service api on server side and client side16:29
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rakhmerovas far as server side I guess they were assigned to l-216:30
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xylan_kongi just can't find them among all the bps16:30
rakhmerov^Gal^: yeah, we can keep fixing bugs till the very end of Liberty16:30
rakhmerovxylan_kong: it's weird16:30
xylan_kongrakhmerov: yeah16:30
rakhmerovlet me check that later offline16:30
xylan_kongrakhmerov: ok16:31
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rakhmerov#action akhmerov, xylan_kong: figure out the destiny of Service API blueprints (server and client side)16:31
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rakhmerovI actually don't have anything else to discuss16:33
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rakhmerovdoes anyone have?16:33
openstackLaunchpad bug 1488157 in Mistral "Executions and action_executions remain unremoved after functional testing" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Lingxian Kong (kong)16:33
xylan_kongi found this bug16:33
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xylan_kongand i'm working on that16:33
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xylan_kongfor execution, i have already uploaded a patch16:34
xylan_kongbut for action execution i think i need a bp to have it done16:34
xylan_kongbp: support action execution deletion16:34
xylan_kongwant to have it discussed16:34
xylan_kongto see your opinion16:34
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rakhmerovplease do discuss it16:35
xylan_kongNikolayM: you here?16:35
rakhmerovisn't action execution deletion supported yet?16:35
xylan_kongrakhmerov: no16:35
NikolayMxylan_kong, yep16:35
rakhmerovbut we have an endpoint for action executions, right?16:36
xylan_kongrakhmerov: yes16:36
xylan_kongbut without deleting action16:36
rakhmerovwith no "delete" method?16:36
xylan_kongNikolayM: what do you think16:36
NikolayMI think they should be deleted within task execution which they belongs to16:36
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xylan_kongNikolayM: but for ad-hoc actions, you can't do that16:37
NikolayMand the same for the task executions and workflow executions16:37
xylan_kongad-hoc action_execution16:37
NikolayMooh, yes, correct16:37
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NikolayMneed to delete them separately16:37
xylan_kongwithout that feature, we can't purge them all during functional test16:37
rakhmerovI'm ok with adding "delete" method16:37
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xylan_kongok, i'll continue to do this16:38
rakhmerovit's weird that we don't have this method16:39
rakhmerovbut have it for workflow executions16:39
rakhmerovok, it's not a serious issue16:39
rakhmerovjust need to fix it16:39
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rakhmerovthanks for bringing this up16:39
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xylan_kongad-hoc action execution was added just a month ago16:39
rakhmerovxylan_kong: just small clarification, we usually use 'ad-hoc action' term for a little bit different thing16:40
xylan_kongrakhmerov: for testing?16:40
rakhmerovalthough it may be used for separate action executions as well I think :)16:40
xylan_kongrakhmerov: oh16:41
xylan_kongrakhmerov: i got you16:41
rakhmerovno, we call "ad-hoc actions" those actions that we created purely in Mistral DSL16:41
rakhmerovin YAML16:41
xylan_kongso, i change it to 'ad-hoc action exeuction' :0(16:41
rakhmerovit refers to action definition rather16:41
rakhmerovyes :)16:41
rakhmerovthat's ok, I'm just clarifying16:41
xylan_kongrakhmerov: ok16:41
rakhmerovit can really be used like you said16:42
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rakhmerovad-hoc action execution16:42
rakhmerovit really means that16:42
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NikolayMI'd like to name it 'single action execution'16:42
rakhmerovjust not to confuse16:42
rakhmerovanything else guys?16:43
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NikolayMnothing from my side16:43
^Gal^same as for me16:44
xylan_kongnothing from me16:44
NikolayMlet's end the meeting16:44
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m4dcodernothing from me.16:45
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rakhmerovok, let's end the meeting16:45
NikolayMthanks guys for attending!16:45
rakhmerovNikolayM: cay you do this pls?16:45
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"16:45
openstackMeeting ended Mon Aug 24 16:45:25 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)16:45
openstackMinutes (text):
^Gal^bye have a good week16:45
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matjazphi all17:00
matjazpshould we start?17:01
matjazp#startmeeting training-guides17:01
openstackMeeting started Mon Aug 24 17:01:10 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is matjazp. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: training-guides)"17:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'training_guides'17:01
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matjazp#link agenda
matjazproll call17:02
annegentlehey matjazp17:02
matjazphey annegentle17:02
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matjazphey Sayali_, rluethi17:03
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matjazp#topic status of the project17:03
*** openstack changes topic to "status of the project (Meeting topic: training-guides)"17:03
cloudtrainmeHere and new to the party!17:03
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matjazphey cloudtrainme17:03
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cloudtrainmeHello, hello.17:04
Sayali_Hello cloudtrainme and welcome :)17:04
matjazpcloudtrainme: maybe a short intro from your side?17:05
cloudtrainmeSure thing.  I work for Rackspace on the OpenStack training team.17:05
matjazpcloudtrainme: you're a trainer?17:05
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cloudtrainmeBeen doing OpenStack training since 201117:05
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rluethiso where were you in the past year or so when we needed you? :-)17:06
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matjazpcloudtrainme: nice, I'm really glad that you joined17:06
cloudtrainmelol...I know..I now, I've got some catching up to do17:06
cloudtrainmeready to jump in17:06
matjazpcloudtrainme: great to hear that..17:07
matjazpwe're just starting to discuss a status of the project17:07
matjazpso we need to define a new scope17:07
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matjazplabs are now a separate project, we need to update our scope17:07
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matjazpwe have to focus areas: upstream training and training slides17:08
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matjazpupstream training is actively maintained, training slides had stalled17:08
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matjazpwe need to restart the effort17:09
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matjazpany comments?17:09
rluethilabs is a separate project, but still needs feedback from users in training-guides.17:10
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cloudtrainmeare the slides in Github?17:11
matjazprluethi: sure17:11
matjazprluethi: I see no problems here17:11
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matjazpcloudtrainme: yes, slides are in openstacks git17:11
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matjazpsome useful, (but now a bit outdated) info about the project17:12
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rluethiisn't there a mirror on github, too, for those who prefer to work against github?17:12
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matjazprluethi: read only mirror?17:12
rluethimatjazp: something like that.17:13
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rluethimatjazp: I know there used to be mirrors of openstack projects on github, and we used to have github URLs all over the documentation.17:13
annegentlerluethi: yeah that was basically unmaintainable and a mess :)17:14
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annegentleplus I don't think the RST toolchain lets you do that17:14
matjazpmaybe we can discuss these statuary changes (scope of the project) on ML? We have bigger visibility there, and more community members can chip in17:14
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annegentlematjazp: other than slides, what do trainers need?17:14
annegentlematjazp: I've always wondered why re-write docs17:15
matjazpannegentle: slides are not really rewritten docs17:15
rluethiannegentle: that's pretty much why we dropped the docs from training-guides.17:15
rluethiannegentle: and what matjazp said.17:16
annegentlematjazp: right, slides are a good deliverable. Docs, not so much "good" from a maintenance / accuracy concern.17:16
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annegentlematjazp: wondering if a deliverable focus is the conversation we need to have17:16
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annegentlematjazp: or, is it a "framework for trainers to get to know each other" that's needed?17:17
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matjazpannegentle: sean had a separate group for trainers17:17
annegentlematjazp: I think your ML post is for slides only, just clarifying17:17
matjazpannegentle: it was at
annegentlematjazp: ah, even better -- I like your narrow scope then17:17
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matjazpannegentle: yes, this is a small community, so we need to focus on some things. When we have larger commmunity, we can expand17:18
annegentlematjazp: good on ya17:18
matjazpwe were spread to thin in the past17:19
annegentlematjazp: also I hadn't realized your email didn't go to the -docs mailing list, sorry17:19
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matjazpannegentle: well, you said to reply to that thrread, and I thought that was deliberate17:19
matjazpannegentle: i just hit reply all ;)17:20
annegentlematjazp: heh I thought the original thread was also to the -docs mailing list17:20
annegentleso just count me befuddled and confused about To: headers :)17:20
annegentlematjazp: great email, sounds like good next step17:20
matjazpannegentle: I intended to repost it to docs ML, but I wanted to solicit some feedback from the cores first17:21
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annegentlematjazp: sure, give it a turn of the sun to get the other side of the world I spose17:21
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matjazpannegentle: hehe, feeling a bit poetic today?17:21
annegentlematjazp: heh17:22
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matjazpok, so we agree, that we need to refocus and define a scope of the project again on Docs ML?17:22
annegentlematjazp: ayup17:23
matjazp#action matjazp sends an email about the scope of the project to the Docs ML17:23
matjazpcan we move on?17:23
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matjazp#topic bug queue17:24
*** openstack changes topic to "bug queue (Meeting topic: training-guides)"17:24
matjazpI cleaned up the project's bug queue (it went from 59 to 6)17:24
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matjazproger, sayali : there is still 4 labs bugs there, I don't know where to move them? manuals queue?17:25
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annegentlematjazp: link please?17:25
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matjazpsome spring.. uh.. summer cleaning :)17:26
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matjazpspeciality teams use openstack-manuals' queue, right?17:27
annegentlematjazp: not really, security has its own queue for example17:28
annegentlerluethi: where would you like to track bugs for the labs?17:28
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rluethiannegentle: I dunno (yet). What do you suggest?17:28
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annegentlematjazp: rluethi  since it's a separate repo I suggest<reponame>17:29
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rluethiannegentle: makes sense. do we need to do something to set this up?17:29
annegentlerluethi: yep, all can be done on launchpad17:29
matjazpwhats the labs new repo name?17:30
annegentlerluethi: match the repo name and the github org sorts for "where is this?" I believe17:30
rluethimatjazp: "openstack-labs" is the last I heard.17:30
matjazp#action rluethi sayali make new bugs queue and move labs bugs there17:30
rluethiannegentle: neat17:31
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matjazpis that ok?17:31
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annegentlerluethi: ah, I don't have it in an email thread17:32
rluethimatjazp: ok. I am a bit under water right now, so please ping me if it's not done soonish.17:32
annegentlerluethi: I'd suggest training-labs17:33
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matjazprluethi: sure, there's no hurry17:33
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annegentlerepo: openstack/training-labs, launchpad: openstack-training-labs17:33
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rluethiannegentle: I think we wanted to move away from the term "training" because the labs scripts are not only for training.17:33
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annegentlerluethi: hm. what about devstack's scripts then?17:35
annegentlerluethi: those are used in labs17:35
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annegentlerluethi: not bikeshedding really trying to avoid confusion17:35
rluethiannegentle: not really, only a devstack library. but I'm afraid we are hijacking the training-guides meeting here.17:36
annegentlerluethi: ok17:36
matjazpmove on?17:36
annegentlematjazp: sure17:36
matjazp#topic prepare Upstream material for the Tokyo summit17:36
*** openstack changes topic to "prepare Upstream material for the Tokyo summit (Meeting topic: training-guides)"17:36
annegentlerluethi: just "not openstack-manuals" is my message then :)17:36
matjazpannegentle: I am a bit in the dark here17:36
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rluethiannegentle: no worries17:37
matjazpTim will be doing this in Tokio, right?17:37
annegentlematjazp: the slides are used for upstream training currently17:37
annegentlematjazp: who's tim?17:37
matjazpTim Freund17:38
matjazpisn't he replacing reed there?17:38
annegentlematjazp: ah, didn't know the name17:38
matjazpfor Upstream training in Tokyo17:38
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matjazpor am I wrong?17:38
annegentlematjazp: so typically the Foundation staff work with the community, did Tim add it to the agenda?17:38
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matjazpI remember I read this somewhere17:39
* matjazp is looking where17:39
annegentlematjazp: openstack-dev mailing list17:39
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annegentlewas it this?17:40
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matjazpyes, I guess so17:40
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matjazpor some other PR regarding it17:40
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matjazpwe usually refreshed the material right before the upstream training17:41
matjazpI can ping Tim if we do the same this year17:41
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Sayali_Sorry lost connection17:41
matjazpor if you know anything else about it17:42
annegentlematjazp: not a thing :)17:42
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matjazp#action matjazp pings Tim about Upstream training update plan17:42
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matjazp#topic shorter versions of the upstream training17:43
*** openstack changes topic to "shorter versions of the upstream training (Meeting topic: training-guides)"17:43
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matjazpSean already has some material for 2 or 4 hour versions, more suitable for user groups17:43
matjazp to avoid duplication of the content between longer and shorter versions of the slides, I propose to build this shorter versions with an automated process of “cherrypicking” the right slides from the longer version (so we can just define the which slides from the longer version would appear in 2 and which in 4 hour versions). This way, it will be easier to maintain.17:43
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matjazplonger Upstream for the "classic" Upstream training at Summits, shorter for more focused at user groups trainings17:44
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matjazpI guess this means some new code for a special utility... any takers?17:46
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matjazpa granularity is a whole slide17:47
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matjazpcomments? is idea ok? or unnecessary?17:48
matjazpwe can also maintain two or three versions of the slides, but I'm afraid it means much more work17:49
matjazpand we already don't have a lot of contributors17:49
cloudtrainmeA single version sounds wise from my rookie perspective.17:49
annegentlematjazp: have to agree with Tony, you don't have resources yet to do versions17:50
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matjazpcloudtrainme: yes, I think so too.17:50
annegentlematjazp: plus it's more to explain to both consumers and maintainers17:50
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matjazpok, so the idea is ok, now we need someone that implements it :)17:51
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matjazpsean already has shorter versions tested in his user groups meetings, we also need to merge this with the original conetnt17:52
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matjazpok.. looks like we agree it's a good idea, but we need to find someone to implement it. I can file a bug17:54
matjazpin the mean time, we update/maintain just the longer version17:54
matjazp#topic any other business?17:54
*** openstack changes topic to "any other business? (Meeting topic: training-guides)"17:54
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matjazpcloudtrainme: if you need help with understanding anything here, please just ask17:55
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cloudtrainmeI appreciate the welcome...I'll be sure to reach out on things I'm not clear about.17:56
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annegentlethanks matjazp for picking up!17:56
matjazpcloudtrainme: no problem17:56
matjazpanything else?17:57
rluethiyeah, a big round of applause for matjazp!17:57
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annegentlehip, hip hooray matjazp!17:57
matjazphey, lets just revive this and I'm good :)17:58
matjazpwere out of time17:58
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rluethiand we are done, too.17:58
matjazpthanks for comming17:58
rluethibye, everyone17:58
cloudtrainmebye all17:59
matjazpbye all17:59
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openstackMeeting ended Mon Aug 24 17:59:09 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:59
openstackMinutes (text):
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sarob#startmeeting akanda18:00
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openstackMeeting started Mon Aug 24 18:00:23 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is sarob. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: akanda)"18:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'akanda'18:00
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sarobhello hello18:00
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sarobagenda can be found here18:01
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saroblets start18:02
sarob#topic outstanding actions18:03
*** openstack changes topic to "outstanding actions (Meeting topic: akanda)"18:03
sarob#info tag liberty milestone 2, remove liberty milestone 3, start liberty rc118:03
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sarobtags are done18:03
saroblm3 is out18:03
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sarobi need to merge the updated pbr version before i cut rc118:04
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sarobalmost there18:05
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sarobthx markmcclain18:06
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sarobill cut the tarballs and such right after the meeting18:06
markmcclainsorry.. I had the tabs open but had not scored them18:06
davidlenwellhey sarob.. if you add akanda-core to all the stuff you want eyes on it ads all of us to the review list and then they will show up in everyones review queue18:06
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sarobtrue, will do in future18:07
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sarob#info bug
openstackLaunchpad bug 1481463 in akanda "cant delete akanda ports" [High,Fix committed] - Assigned to Adam Gandelman (gandelman-a)18:08
sarobits merged as well, so action complete18:08
sarobi believe that is all actions from the last meeting18:08
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sarob#topic critical bugs18:09
*** openstack changes topic to "critical bugs (Meeting topic: akanda)"18:09
openstackLaunchpad bug 1470673 in akanda "pbr version numbering doesn't match semantic versioning" [Critical,In progress] - Assigned to Sean Roberts (sarob)18:09
openstackLaunchpad bug 1481877 in akanda "stable/juno branches are versioned incorrectly" [Critical,New] - Assigned to Sean Roberts (sarob)18:09
sarobfirst is solved from the semver patches18:10
sarobsecond is a bit of cleanup i will verify is complete18:11
sarobpart of it was overlapping from the semver bug18:11
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sarobadam_g: this was the bug you reported, sound right?18:12
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sarobwe will come back to this18:13
sarobmoving on18:13
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sarob#topic progress on liberty rc1 bp18:14
*** openstack changes topic to "progress on liberty rc1 bp (Meeting topic: akanda)"18:14
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sarob#info appliance provisioning driver18:15
sarobdavidlenwell: update on
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davidlenwellhave several patches in flight that address this blueprint.. anticipate landing most of them over the next 10 days or so depending on review feedback.18:16
adam_gsorry, my power went out. just got back online via tether18:16
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adam_gsarob, is separate from the semver stuff on master. stable/juno is versioned as kilo18:17
openstackLaunchpad bug 1481877 in akanda "stable/juno branches are versioned incorrectly" [Critical,New] - Assigned to Sean Roberts (sarob)18:17
sarobah, right of course18:18
sarobI will push those patches today18:18
sarobi was reading the last paragraph first18:18
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sarobdavidlenwell: sorry about that18:19
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sarobdavidlenwell: what work is remaining so you are ready to merge18:20
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davidlenwellstill have to add patches that integrate the driver into the worker and abstracts much of instance_manager18:21
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davidlenwelland tests tests tests18:21
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sarobdavidlenwell: is that broken out in the spec yet?18:23
davidlenwellyes18:23 section18:23
davidlenwellits part of making the rouer driver18:24
davidlenwellnot related to populte18:24
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sarobso creates workers and connects them18:27
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davidlenwellno.. not at all18:27
sarobexplain then please18:27
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davidlenwellI'm not sure this is the right time/place to explain the underlying architecture of our code.. but a router in this context could refer to the logicial resource in neutron.. or you could be reffering to the chunk of code that is to abstract all the router configuration and life cycle that is not shared behaviors with other types of services we want to manage the life cycle of.18:29
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markmcclainI think we can kick this around in #akanda when we're done with the meeting18:30
davidlenwellpopulate currently is built to restore state when the rug comes on18:30
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sarobgot it18:30
davidlenwellthe reason I have to touch it for drivers is that we'll want to populate workers with routers, lb's , etc18:31
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sarobgot it18:31
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saroblets dig your code more on the #akanda channell as markmcclain suggests after the meeting18:32
sarob#info lbaasv2 support18:33
davidlenwellblocked on the previous topic18:33
sarobits blocked on the appliance provisioning driver18:33
sarobright, for the log18:33
sarobdavidlenwell: anything else?18:33
sarob#info rug scaling18:33
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sarobadam_g: update on
adam_gstack of patches still up review for that18:34
sarobthose 4-5 patches should complete this bp18:34
sarobgiven no more work pops off the reviews18:35
sarob#info nodepool support18:36
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sarobupdate on
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adam_gi hope to get cracking on that one this week or next18:37
sarobadam_g: ^18:37
adam_gtheres a spec up that could use some eyes18:37
sarobany community feedback on using tooz?18:38
adam_gsarob, what do you mean?18:38
saroblike has anyone else noticed we are planning on using tooz18:40
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saroband given positive feedback on project reuse or anything like that18:40
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adam_gsarob, no, not that i know of18:41
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sarobokay no problem, not that we need to go fishing for it18:41
sarobjust wondering18:42
sarobadam_g: anything else?18:42
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adam_gnothin from me18:43
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adam_gsorry, im wicked lagged tethering through my phone atm18:43
sarobno prob18:43
sarob#info doc updates18:44
sarobupdate on
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sarobi have been doing random cleanup18:44
sarobrather following the spec18:44
sarobim going to start on the what is akanda section this week18:45
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sarobi should be able to get that completed pretty quickly18:45
puranamrsarob: i have started adding some docstrings, i could continue as cycles permit18:45
sarobthe other sections will come over sept18:46
sarobpuranamr: thanx!18:46
sarobthats all for rc1 bp updates18:46
sarob#topic any other business18:46
*** openstack changes topic to "any other business (Meeting topic: akanda)"18:46
sarobsmcginnis: are you around?18:47
sarobsmcginnis has started giving reviews and submitting patches18:48
sarobsmcginnis: i wanted to say thanks18:48
sarobanyone else for any other biz?18:49
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markmcclainnothing from me18:49
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puranamrnothing from me too18:51
sarobso lets break a bit early18:51
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openstackMeeting ended Mon Aug 24 18:51:52 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:51
openstackMinutes (text):
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barrett1#startmeeting Product Working Group19:02
openstackMeeting started Mon Aug 24 19:02:03 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is barrett1. Information about MeetBot at
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:02
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'product_working_group'19:02
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barrett1Roll Call19:02
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barrett1Hi All19:02
barrett1Agenda for today is available:
ShamailHi everyone19:03
kencjohnstonjohnthetubaguy can you join the bridge?19:03
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barrett1#topic Nova Specs & CPL Plans19:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Nova Specs & CPL Plans (Meeting topic: Product Working Group)"19:04
johnthetubaguykencjohnston: in now :)19:04
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barrett1Shamail will you lead this?19:04
barrett1This is a follow-up from the pre-mid-cycle email thread on how PWG collaborates with Nova19:05
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barrett1Product WG is looking to both create new user stories, defining new requirements, as well as collaborate on existing requirements and help close resource gaps19:08
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barrett1We looked through the exisiting Nova priorities in our mid-cycle19:10
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barrett1Thanks for adding add'l detail - to the project priorities and unresourced priorities19:16
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barrett1CPL for Nova is Hugh Blemming19:16
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kencjohnstonhughhalf if you are looking for him on irc19:18
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barrett1Nova is open for new specs now19:24
barrett1Would like to have all of the specs submitted well before the Design Summit, not after19:24
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ShamailHi barrett1, can you document any outcomes?  Unfortunately, I'm mobile today so talking and typing concurrently won't work. :(19:25
barrett1Trying to Shamail...19:26
barrett1Testable metrics - this was discussed as an element of a user story - both to communicate performance/scalability/reliability/etc requirements and tests to validate too19:27
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barrett1Current bar is does the gate stay green19:29
barrett1A number people can shoot for, would be v helpful19:29
Shamail#action Please review to find additional details on the additional items on the nova priorities list.  We should discuss on the ML whether any teams are willing to help with them. - ALL19:29
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barrett1#action User Story owners: Include a definition of performance target in each story19:35
barrett1#action Jesse Cook and Rocky Grober: Get in touch with Tailgaters to discuss performance targets and how we can collaborate with them19:37
johnthetubaguythanks all19:38
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barrett1#action Follow-up on Testing Non-Functional requirements at our working session in Tokyo19:39
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geoffarnoldNon-functional: performance (latency, request rate), scale (per project, per cloud), availability, upgrade outage19:40
barrett1Plan is to use the requirements section in the User Story template to capture the non-functional testing requirements19:41
barrett1#topic Mid-cycle Summary & Follow-up19:41
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barrett1Mid-cycle etherpad:
barrett1Mid-cycle Action Tracker:
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barrett1 User Story Repository:
barrett1User Story Tracker:
barrett1GitHub Repo:
barrett1Let's walk through the action tracker - this is a consolidation of action items from the 2 days19:44
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ShamailI missed the link :( (got disconnected)19:44
barrett1Shamail: Which do you need?19:45
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barrett1Updated Operator Tools Repo Action Item19:47
geoffarnoldOff-topic: on the subject of public clouds:
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ShamailThe action tracker19:49
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barrett1#action Kenny Johnston Propose an Ops Tools Repo walk thru session to Tom Fifeld for Design Summit in Tokyo19:49
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Shamailgeoffarnold: +1 on the need for a WG19:50
kencjohnstonOperator Tools Repo -
barrett1#Action Carol - Break line 32 in the Action Tracker into the 4 User Stories19:50
Shamail#link Operator Tools Repo -
barrett1The 4 User Stories and Owners are:19:52
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barrett1  Capacity/Quota: Geoff Arnold, Steve Gordon, Jesse Cook19:52
barrett1  This is a compilation of several related user stories – see tracker for details19:52
barrett1  Lifecycle Management: Arkady Kanesky, Sean Cohen19:52
barrett1  On-boarding: Jay Kruemcke, Deric Horn19:52
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barrett1  Upgrades: Kenny Johnston , Keith Basil19:52
geoffarnoldNot sure why all those user stories have a due date of 10/23, since during our conversation last week we were talking of "by Tuesday". I'm finishing mine tonight.19:53
geoffarnold(I'm listening to audio, but muted bc of ambient noise)19:53
jcookWhat's the link for the doc that is being actively gone through?19:54
jcookthis: ?19:54
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geoffarnoldRight - I was confused about the uniform Tokyo date19:54
Shamail#link Generated HTML pages -
barrett1#Action Carol add 4 top priority user story creation added to tracker19:55
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barrett1Work flow for User Stories: Initial version goes into Draft; Comments, enhancements, etc are worked via Draft19:57
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barrett1When someone indicates a resource commitment to a User Story in Draft, it transitions to Proposed19:58
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barrett1Reminder: User Stories should be in the Draft repo ahead 8/31 team meeting20:02
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openstackMeeting ended Mon Aug 24 20:02:44 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)20:02
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fitoduartehello alll21:02
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