Tuesday, 2015-08-25

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skraynevramishra: hi. could you take a look my comment for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/216223/06:37
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ramishraskraynev: yes I've another followup patch for them06:38
skraynevramishra: ok. cool. please post answer in comments, and then I approve it. thx06:39
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anteaya#startmeeting third-party08:04
openstackMeeting started Tue Aug 25 08:04:34 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.08:04
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.08:04
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'third_party'08:04
anteayahi eantyshev08:04
anteayahow are you today?08:04
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eantyshevfine, but having problems getting my changes reviewed08:06
anteayayes I can understand that08:06
anteayawhat patches have you up?08:06
anteayacan you link them here?08:06
eantyshevhttps://review.openstack.org/211124 and https://review.openstack.org/21502908:07
anteaya#link https://review.openstack.org/21112408:07
anteaya#link https://review.openstack.org/21502908:07
anteayait works if you use the link syntax as well08:07
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* anteaya looks at the patches08:07
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eantyshevthank you, anteaya!08:07
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anteayathe -1 isn't helping, is abel lopez on irc that you have seen?08:09
anteayacan you and ianw talk to this person at all?08:09
anteayaderek higgins gave a second +2 on the patch, I am wondering why he didn't approve it08:10
anteayathe cloudlinx patch08:11
anteayawe don't tend to just add os.s to the gate08:11
anteayaso perhaps an item added to the infra meeting agenda might be in order08:12
eantyshevwe have already 2 forks of devstack-gate, and that's odd08:12
anteayato tell folks why you think this is a good addition and helps openstack08:12
anteayaI don't understand your last comment08:12
anteayawhat is odd?08:13
eantyshevit's very inconvenient to maintain the forks of devstack-gate, as it changes frequently...08:14
anteayawhy are you forking devstack-gate?08:14
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eantyshevwe use it in our CI, to run devstack on slaves08:15
anteayawhy not just run devstack-gate?08:15
eantyshevand we have CloudLinux slaves08:15
anteayaokay that won't be a compeling reason for infra to add an os08:15
eantyshevobviously we need CloudLinux support in devstack-gate08:15
anteayathat is not the conclusion infra will draw08:16
anteayaadding an os to infra means infra has to support the os08:16
anteayamaintenance, security08:16
anteayadaily builds08:16
anteayaodd packaging differences08:16
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anteayayou being frustrated, while important, and I care about your happiness08:17
anteayais not a compeling reason for infra to add another os to the gate08:17
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anteayajhesketh: if you are about, can you take a look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/211124/4 and possibly offer a review?08:18
eantyshevokay, how do you like another way for us: apply this change to devstack-gate in a job?08:18
anteayawell that is an interesting question08:18
jheskethanteaya: will do08:18
anteayajhesketh: thank you08:19
anteayajhesketh: and eantyshev is wondering how to address needing to use an unsupported os08:19
anteayajhesketh: if you have any thoughts on that, I would be interested to hear them08:19
anteayaeantyshev: well creating a job is individual to a certain repo, so is much more likely to be accepted08:20
anteayaeantyshev: however jobs use supported os.s08:20
anteayaso I am at a loss as to how a job could be created to use an unsupported os08:20
jheskethanteaya, eantyshev: as in you need dib to support another os?08:20
eantyshevthat's not a problem, I'm talking about our private CI08:21
anteayajhesketh: context https://review.openstack.org/#/c/215029/108:21
* jhesketh is trying to get up to speed sorry08:21
anteayano no, thanks for being here08:21
anteayaeantyshev: right if this change is for your private ci, it doesn't belong in upstream08:22
* jhesketh is often lurking08:22
anteayajhesketh: :) thanks08:22
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anteayaeantyshev: but we certainly can discuss how you might approach it in your own ci08:22
anteayaI've just never thought about it08:22
anteayaeantyshev: so your fork of devstack-gate08:23
eantyshevI have 2 choices: either I fork devstack-gate or I apply needed change to upstream devstack-gate in my private job08:23
anteayawhat would happen if you applied your patch 215029 to your clone of devstack-gate?08:23
patchbotanteaya: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/215029/08:23
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anteayahello patchbot pleasure to meet you08:24
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anteayaeantyshev: yeah I get that, I'm not feeling that upstream adding an os to accomodate your private ci is a compeling reason for infra08:24
eantyshevanteaya: no, idea is to apply it to upstream devstack-gate, so I don't have to rebase08:25
anteayaI'm saying chances are not good that will happen08:25
anteayaand am asking if you are able to apply it to your clone of devstack-gate08:25
eantyshevI understand, but the change will stay, won't it?08:25
anteayaif you apply it to your clone you will need to check it every time you reclone08:26
anteayabut unless that section of the file is changed if you pull down from master and fast forward your changes the change should stay in your clone08:26
eantyshevif I choose to clone devstack-gate, I commit there what I want, and don't need the change08:27
anteayathat probably is your best way forward unfortunately08:27
jheskethanteaya: so I'm not familiar enough with grub to comfortably merge 211124. I'd like to see Ian's last question answered first at the very least08:27
anteayajhesketh: thank you for your review08:27
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anteayajhesketh: and yes having an answer to ianw's question would be good to have08:28
eantyshevbut If the change will be available at review.o.o, I will apply it privately to upstream devstack-gate, and that will work for me08:28
anteayaeantyshev: sure that works too08:28
anteayaand probably a better way forward for you08:29
eantyshevanteaya: this way I don't have to maintain a fork08:29
anteayanot having a fork is a good thing08:29
anteayaI agree08:29
eantyshevokay, that will comfort me :)08:30
anteayaoh good08:30
anteayathank you08:30
anteayaI'm glad we are in a happy place08:30
anteayawhat else shall we discuss today?08:30
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eantyshevI have no questions at the moment08:33
anteayaany reason I should not close the meeting?08:33
anteayaeantyshev jhesketh thanks for your participation today08:33
anteayaalways a pleasure to spend time with you08:33
anteayathank you08:33
jheskethno trouble, sorry I wasn't more helpful08:33
eantyshevthank you!08:34
jheskethanteaya: I assume it's some ridiculous time for you. Go sleep!08:34
anteayajhesketh: I think that often myself, wish I was more helpful08:34
anteayajhesketh: ha ha ha on my way back to bed08:34
jheskethyou're always very helpful anteaya08:34
anteayajhesketh: aw thanks Josh08:34
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"08:34
openstackMeeting ended Tue Aug 25 08:34:52 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)08:34
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-08-25-08.04.html08:34
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-08-25-08.04.txt08:34
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-08-25-08.04.log.html08:34
* anteaya goes back to bed08:35
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alex_xu#startmeeting nova api12:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Aug 25 12:00:17 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is alex_xu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.12:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.12:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova api)"12:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova_api'12:00
alex_xuhello, who is here today?12:00
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alex_xuoomichi: hey, long time no see :)12:01
oomichiyeah :)12:01
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alex_xunot sure johnthetubaguy and sdague will join the meeting12:02
alex_xuok, let's run the meeting12:02
alex_xu#topic Actions from last meeting12:03
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*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: nova api)"12:03
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alex_xuone for sdague: check sdague his action in next week meeting12:03
johnthetubaguyyeah, I remember he was out for two meetings, I guess this is the second one he is out for12:03
alex_xubut sdague sent email12:04
alex_xu#link https://github.com/stackforge/gerrit-dash-creator/blob/master/dashboards/nova-api.dash12:04
alex_xuhe add create dashboard for api patches12:04
alex_xuI generated one12:04
edleafemax line length FTL12:05
johnthetubaguyOK, whats the dashboard trying to include?12:05
alex_xuanyway I tried, it's great12:05
johnthetubaguyah, I see now, the link tells me12:05
* bauzas waves late12:05
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: yea, let say everything include12:06
alex_xubauzas: welcome12:06
bauzas(lurking mostly)12:06
alex_xuanother action is for me and gmann_12:06
alex_xugmann_ and alex_xu take a look at tempest failure of https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214085/312:06
sdaguemorning folks.12:06
gmann_sdague: morning12:06
sdaguestupid jetlag from west coast, sorry I'm late12:06
alex_xuthis is related to next topic12:06
alex_xusdague: morning!12:07
bauzassdague: eh I'm not alone \o/12:07
alex_xulet's jump to next topic directly12:07
alex_xu#topic v2.0 on v2.112:07
*** openstack changes topic to "v2.0 on v2.1 (Meeting topic: nova api)"12:07
johnthetubaguy#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214085/12:08
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alex_xujohnthetubaguy: thanks12:08
johnthetubaguyso I guess the api-paste.ini changes are the big one here12:08
sdaguejohnthetubaguy: yeh, I was wondering where those all stood12:08
johnthetubaguywell, actually not really, just the test failures they highlight12:08
alex_xu#link https://review.openstack.org/21543612:09
alex_xuwe try to fix that failure in above patch12:09
sdagueit looks like 1 tempest test failed that flip12:09
johnthetubaguysdague: so we have a bug in v2.1's legacy mode , this deals with some of that: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/21543612:09
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alex_xuwe plan to strip the extra parameter out12:09
alex_xuthat is different with our original spec saying12:09
johnthetubaguyso relax broke patternProperties, but alex_xu has fixed that now :)12:09
gmann_sdague: need for extra param strip out, then tempest is fine12:10
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johnthetubaguyyeah, the next bit is do we strip out the bad properties12:10
alex_xugmann_: we still need skip the host update testcase for compatible mode I guess?12:10
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johnthetubaguygmann_: well we still have a tempest test failure, but its unexpected 2xx rather than 5xx, when 4xx was expected12:10
edleafeI thought that if they are requesting v2 that we leave in the extra props?12:10
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johnthetubaguyedleafe: they were, but it creates big problems for the API12:10
gmann_johnthetubaguy: ahhh right.12:10
edleafeBecause some might be relying on them12:10
sdagueok, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/215436 seems mostly good, though I agree with johnthetubaguy's -1 comments there. If we can get that respun that would be great12:11
alex_xuone point I want to metion, the host update with extra parameter return 400 before, with strip out extra params, the api will return 2xx, hope this ok for everyone12:11
johnthetubaguyedleafe: I am voting we strip them, and add back in the ones folks need (I think scheduler hints)12:11
sdaguethere is still a hosts API failure on johnthetubaguy's patch12:11
sdagueI can look into that one today12:11
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johnthetubaguysdague: so that the issue we are discussing right now12:11
edleafejohnthetubaguy: how do we know which ones are needed?12:12
johnthetubaguysdague: to strip or not to strip the extra properties, although either way we get a tempest failure right now12:12
gmann_johnthetubaguy: sdague that will be difficult to handle on tempest side. different expected code for v2.1 and v2onv2.112:12
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: agreed with you (re: hints)12:12
johnthetubaguyedleafe: using master, we are OK, its was out of tree stuff that got broke, I believe, which makes me less sympathetic12:13
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: but I would like to see alaski yelling or accepting12:13
sdaguegmann_: so is that just a bug?12:13
sdaguesomething screwed up on the initial v2.1 ?12:13
johnthetubaguysdague: its an issue with how we are doing the compatiblity12:13
johnthetubaguyv2 actually had some validation, tempest tests some of it12:13
johnthetubaguynow v2.1 compat mode, drops that validation12:13
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alex_xuyea, few api have some validation12:14
gmann_sdague: not actually, fir v2 on v21 we skip the additional property validation so we need to do something for extra param which can cause 5xx error as v21 do not have python code valisdation as v2 has12:14
johnthetubaguywe either let the prams through (causes 5xx errors, in this case), or we drop possible bad params (cases 2xx success by ignoring stuff), or we try add the odd validation from v2 back into v2.112:14
sdagueok, I'll probably need to walk through the code once I'm more awake to fully understand. I trust you folks.12:15
gmann_johnthetubaguy: yea, those are all cases :)12:15
oomichithat means too relax validation for extra parameters on v2 comp api?12:15
johnthetubaguywell, the thing is, we want bad requests to do no halm to the system12:16
johnthetubaguywe want all requests that were accepted before to be accepted now12:16
johnthetubaguyif we strip the params, we get the above two cases sorted12:16
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: yea, that's the goal12:16
sdagueit feels like keeping the v2 validation around for this case12:16
gmann_yea, because some extra param might having success cases on v212:16
sdagueeven though it will be a little gross12:16
johnthetubaguysdague: so that would make us pass the tempest test, I just worry about the other stuff we missed12:16
alex_xusdague: if we choice that way, we need check all the api12:17
gmann_johnthetubaguy: sdague : poython code one might be little dificult as we do nto have tests for all extra param for other API12:17
johnthetubaguyso there is another way, I guess, which is add a validation decorator that re-instates full validation for v2.1 compat mode, for certain APIs?12:18
gmann_yea we need to walk all v2 code and put validation..12:18
edleafesdague: v2 on v21 is probably gonna be a little gross :)12:18
sdagueso... this is for all the APIs?12:19
sdaguesorry, I only noticed a single failure here12:19
johnthetubaguyso I was leaning towards, strip the params, and let some things that fail succeed, because we get the saftey of avoiding some bad 5xx12:19
johnthetubaguysdague: its more that we assume a lack of tempest coverage for the other APIs12:19
gmann_sdague: yea, v2 might have lot of extra param validation in python code12:19
gmann_sdague: johnthetubaguy yea that was test with extra param in tempest12:20
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sdagueok, right.12:20
sdagueok, so I think I'm with you johnthetubaguy then, stripping seems the next best option12:20
gmann_we do not have other extra param cases cover under tempest12:20
alex_xuok, cool12:20
alex_xulooks like we like this12:20
johnthetubaguysdague: I am tempted to also add extra validation for that call, to make tempest happy, but yeah, that seems the safer general appraoch12:20
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gmann_sdague: how to handle Tempest for v2onv21 where this test will pass12:21
alex_xuok, let's move on, afraid we run out of time12:21
johnthetubaguy(notes what he said is actually quite complicated to implement)12:21
sdagueok, before we move on, who's doing what?12:21
gmann_and sorry test will fail in v2onv21 and pass on v2 and v2112:21
sdaguewho is going to rev - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/215436 to fix the comments. And who is going to do this additional patch?12:22
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johnthetubaguyprobably need to skip the tempest test, or delete it12:22
alex_xuI will12:22
sdaguealex_xu: great12:22
johnthetubaguywho is taking the tempest test bit?12:22
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sdagueI can take the tempest bit12:22
gmann_alex_xu:  extra param stripout can be done on same patch12:22
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sdague#action alex_xu to create updated validation patch which strips out extra params12:23
johnthetubaguydid we agree the paste-api.ini changes?12:23
johnthetubaguyits worth a review12:23
alex_xusdague: thanks, I'm typing slow...12:23
johnthetubaguyI drop /v312:23
sdague#action sdague to address any additional tempest issues12:23
alex_xu#topic Test collapse of v2.0 and v2.112:23
*** openstack changes topic to "Test collapse of v2.0 and v2.1 (Meeting topic: nova api)"12:23
oomichijohnthetubaguy: I much prefer the direction12:23
sdaguejohnthetubaguy: looks right12:24
alex_xugmann_: you turn12:24
sdaguejohnthetubaguy: I thought we were going to drop v1.1 at the same time12:24
gmann_alex_xu: thanks12:24
johnthetubaguysdague: oomichi: cool thanks, there is this bit too: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214592/12:24
johnthetubaguysdague: seemed easier to leave it there till we drop /v212:24
gmann_before that -  v2.1 default on gate12:24
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gmann_sdague: regarding v21 deafult on gate12:24
gmann_#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/163718/ , https://review.openstack.org/#/c/207183/12:25
johnthetubaguygmann_: my paste-api.ini changes mess up the tempest stuff I guess? we need the v21 job testing v2 instead, or something12:25
gmann_sdague: can i merge these two patches to move forward?12:25
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gmann_sdague:  i like your approach which makes catalog in much better shape12:25
sdaguegmann_: so johnthetubaguy's changes will make it v2.1 on the gate12:25
sdagueoh, not quite actually12:26
alex_xuand we still need job for legacy v2?12:26
johnthetubaguysdague: actually, thinking about it, it makes it the v2.1 v2 legacy mode by default12:26
gmann_johnthetubaguy: yea not actually12:26
sdaguealex_xu: yes, how about I take an action to sort out our eventual test matrix here12:26
johnthetubaguyso we need three tests: v2_legacy, v2.1_compat and v2.1 I guess?12:26
oomichialex_xu: I feel we need to test legacy v2 now12:26
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alex_xusdague: that will cool12:26
gmann_sdague: it will have v2onv21 as deafult12:27
alex_xu#action sdague will sort out our eventual test matrix here12:27
sdagueI'm not really thrilled with the idea of putting computev2.1 into tempest's service catalog for us, because I feel like we want to not do things that way12:27
sdagueI'll have a proposal by end of day12:27
gmann_sdague: cool. Thanks12:28
johnthetubaguysdague: cool, I guess we need that test the edges plan in there too12:28
edleafesdague: what is the main concern?12:28
johnthetubaguy(well, top bottom and interesting)12:28
gmann_johnthetubaguy: may be all for v21 and one job for each v2 and v2onv2112:28
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johnthetubaguygmann_: I am +2 on all those unit test tidy ups now12:28
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johnthetubaguygmann_: I think it should be, probably12:28
gmann_sdague: #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/163718/ , https://review.openstack.org/#/c/207183/ , https://review.openstack.org/#/c/163731/12:29
gmann_adiantum_: those are all patches for gate v21 thing12:29
sdaguegmann_: ok yeh, once I'm more awake here I'll dive through them all12:29
gmann_sdague: Thanks12:29
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gmann_NExt Topic - Test collapse of v2.0 and v2.112:29
gmann_#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:master+topic:bp/test-collapse-v2-and-v21,n,z12:30
alex_xu#topic Test collapse of v2.0 and v2.112:30
*** openstack changes topic to "Test collapse of v2.0 and v2.1 (Meeting topic: nova api)"12:30
gmann_all patches are up for review. most of them merged. oomichi helped there :)12:30
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oomichigmann_: yeah, I will check them later :)12:31
alex_xucool, thanks gmann_ oomichi12:31
sdagueok, will take a quick run through those post meeting12:31
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sdaguelooks like johnthetubaguy is +2 on them all, so hopefully we can land them today12:31
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johnthetubaguyyeah, sounds promising12:31
oomichisdague: yeah, agree12:31
gmann_johnthetubaguy: Thanks i did not see12:31
gmann_I will rebase https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214985/ too12:31
gmann_after meeting12:32
alex_xucool, looks everything good at here.12:32
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alex_xulet's move on?12:32
gmann_alex_xu: yea12:32
alex_xu#topic Removal of v3 naming from source tree12:32
*** openstack changes topic to "Removal of v3 naming from source tree (Meeting topic: nova api)"12:32
alex_xuAll the file moving is done12:32
alex_xujust left some class renaming12:33
johnthetubaguywe did the tests above12:33
johnthetubaguyanything left?12:33
alex_xuedleafe: do you still have any trouble?12:33
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edleafealex_xu: no, I have to clean up some things oomichi noted12:33
alex_xuI saw there still have a lot of comments in the code metion 'v3', those should be cleanup, but not hurry I think12:33
johnthetubaguyoh, so I have a bit, in the config12:33
edleafebut otherwise it's ok12:33
sdaguegmann_: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214985/ seems in merge conflict12:33
gmann_sdague: yea, i will rebase soon12:34
johnthetubaguyso, just to be clear, we have about 4 working days left before the -2 procedural hammer falls, so we might want to pick our fights here12:34
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: yea, that is important step for remove extension in M12:34
edleafealex_xu: about the v3 comments: should they be all changed to 'v21', or something else (like 'microversions')?12:34
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alex_xuedleafe: not sure, I few there may have some todo become useless12:35
gmann_johnthetubaguy: for bug fix too?12:35
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johnthetubaguyI think we just do v3 -> v21 for now12:35
sdaguejohnthetubaguy: so, I don't think we should say that the extensions configs are removed in M12:35
edleafealex_xu: ok, I'll check on the TODOs12:35
johnthetubaguygmann_: bug fixes are OK, assuming there are no string changes, or dock impact12:35
sdagueI think we need to give a full cycle there12:36
gmann_johnthetubaguy: ok12:36
alex_xuedleafe: if we think those are not hurry, let me take care of them, I guess those need some history background12:36
johnthetubaguysdague: I was being a bit aggressive there, true12:36
sdaguebecause people don't know it's coming unless they were paying attention12:36
sdagueI'd just say they are deprecated, and will be removed in the future12:36
sdaguebut don't say when12:36
johnthetubaguysdague: yeah, that makes more sense12:36
edleafealex_xu: sounds good. I wasn't around for that history12:36
sdagueothewise, I'm +212:37
johnthetubaguysdague: it was really just a cut and paste from another comment nearby12:37
sdagueyep, no worris12:37
gmann_sdague: and when we will plan for removal in N?12:37
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sdaguegmann_: probably12:37
sdaguebut it's a big move, and we need to give people time to absorb it12:38
johnthetubaguysdague: +112:38
alex_xusdague: +112:38
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alex_xuanymore question on this?12:38
sdaguejohnthetubaguy: so, I'd also suggest that we actually add a v2.1 config group, even though all it's opts are deprecated, and deprecate the v3 group as a whole as well12:38
sdaguejust for cleanliness12:38
sdaguethe v3 group gets deleted in M12:39
sdaguethe v2.1 has all deprecated options which will go away ~N12:39
sdaguebecause configuring v2.1 via a v3 group is going to be confusing12:39
johnthetubaguysdague: oh, good idea, I assume I can just set a deprecated group name12:39
sdagueyeh, I think so12:39
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sdaguejohnthetubaguy: if you don't have time for the config thing, I can run with it today12:39
alex_xusdague: good idea, resolve the confuse12:40
johnthetubaguysdague: I can tidy that after this meeting, keep you clear for the test stuff12:40
edleafeWill labeling this stuff 'v21' be confusing? We all know that that means 'microversions', but will most people understand that shorthand?12:40
johnthetubaguyedleafe: you access it via the /v2.1 URL, so I am OK with that12:41
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alex_xuor just under the api group12:41
gmann_but do we want to run v21 based on CONF.osapi_v3(21).enabled?12:41
johnthetubaguyedleafe: we can rename it once we drop v2 code12:41
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sdaguegmann_: right, so that option should not get moved12:41
sdagueand just be removed in M12:41
edleafejohnthetubaguy: ok, that sounds good. Maybe we'll get some feedback from ops12:41
sdaguethat was just a massive oversight12:42
johnthetubaguyedleafe: ops? which bit do you want feedback on?12:42
gmann_sdague: or we just keep that in config and run v21 as deafult12:42
sdaguegmann_: right12:42
edleafejohnthetubaguy: if they're setting config options, etc.12:42
sdaguefor L it's the switch for v2.112:42
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sdagueenabled by default12:42
edleafeit's the external-facing stuff that I wonder about12:42
sdaguein M we delete the option so you can't turn off v2.112:43
alex_xusdague: +112:43
gmann_sdague: ok, cool12:43
alex_xuany more question then move on?12:43
alex_xuI added on more topic12:44
alex_xu#topic microversions client12:44
*** openstack changes topic to "microversions client (Meeting topic: nova api)"12:44
johnthetubaguyedleafe: I am not sure what they will say will stop us removing the options ASAP12:44
alex_xu#link https://github.com/openstack/python-novaclient/commit/39739158b0cf10a775fd3899e35df7f53b4c933612:44
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edleafejohnthetubaguy: not about removing; more about naming12:44
alex_xuI saw we just bump to the newest version, I guess there are a lot of middleversion not implement yet, how can we push that?12:44
alex_xuask each bp owner?12:44
sdaguealex_xu: novaclient doesn't implement every bit of the nova api12:45
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: when we freeze python-novaclient?12:45
alex_xusdague: why?12:45
sdaguealex_xu: history12:45
alex_xusdague: ok...12:45
sdaguemostly, I mean, novaclient has never been 100% api coverage12:45
johnthetubaguyalex_xu: unsure, honestly12:46
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sdagueso it's kind of ok if exposure of the API features ends up happening when people need them.12:46
johnthetubaguyso given python-novaclient is kinda dying off now, I am OK with us not worrying too much about that either12:46
sdaguelibraries should freeze with the rest of the code12:46
johnthetubaguyimportant thing, folks have a pattern to follow now, if they want to add things, which is great12:47
sdaguejust so we don't disrupt heat / trove / etc releases12:47
sdaguejohnthetubaguy: ++12:47
johnthetubaguysdague: true, dependency freeze hits, and stable branches now, I think12:47
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alex_xuok, cool12:47
alex_xuso we needn't worry about that, can save some time for us12:47
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alex_xulet's move on12:48
alex_xu#topic API Documentation Improvement12:48
*** openstack changes topic to "API Documentation Improvement (Meeting topic: nova api)"12:48
alex_xu#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-v2.1-api-doc12:48
alex_xuI check the v2.1 api doc, to ensure the status12:48
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alex_xulooks like we have a lot of problem12:48
johnthetubaguyalex_xu: how did the discussions go with annegentle on those?12:49
sdagueyeh, honestly, until we get some of these pre freeze bits wrapped up, I haven't spent the mental time on this issue.12:49
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: annegentle mention whether we have time to implement the generate swagger from code now12:49
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johnthetubaguyoh, based on the API sample generation code?12:50
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alex_xuI take look into that today, the generate may not hard, but after we generate the swagger, we still missing the parameter explain text. those doc string not in our code12:50
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: based on wsgi stack I guess12:50
sdaguealex_xu: right, we should figure out where to put those docstrings in our code12:50
sdagueif we have the pattern for one, we can start adding more in that model12:51
* johnthetubaguy wonders about extending the json validation...12:51
alex_xuso I think we jump to generate swagger from code for this time looks like impossible12:51
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sdaguealex_xu: yeh, it seems like not a lot of time12:51
sdagueI'd say make that an M goal12:51
alex_xusdague: yea12:51
oomichijohnthetubaguy: yeah, I have the same thinking..12:52
sdagueI think realistic goal for L is an updated concept guide12:52
sdagueand any prototyping for swagger that will help us have a plan for M12:52
gmann_yea, that need lot of manual effort12:52
oomichiwe can create sample json files from json-schema.12:52
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sdagueI'd like to see enough of a proto type that we can have a summit session in Tokyo on the swagger parts and develop the plan for the cycle.12:52
johnthetubaguyI do wonder about also adding stubs in for the missing API docs, in the existing docs?12:52
alex_xu#link https://github.com/elmiko/pecan-swagger somebody work on generate swagger from pecan12:53
johnthetubaguysdague: +1 for prototype at tokyo12:53
alex_xubut very initial status of those code12:53
sdaguealex_xu / oomichi / gmann_ is a prototype for tokyo realistic?12:53
oomichisdague: yeah, I can :)12:53
alex_xusdague: I'm cool12:53
gmann_sdague: sure we can try12:54
johnthetubaguysounds good12:54
oomichisdague: that was my first goal when I started validation works 2.5 years ago12:54
sdagueoomichi: :)12:54
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alex_xuoomichi: :)12:54
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sdagueyeh, it's been a long road here, but things seem to be coming together now12:54
johnthetubaguyoomichi: I remember liking the direction, its great to see us getting close!12:54
gmann_oomichi: i remember your spec :)12:54
alex_xuso do we still need fix the wadl for now?12:55
sdaguealex_xu: honestly, I wouldn't bother12:55
alex_xuthe descision is just focus on concept doc?12:55
johnthetubaguyit does seem like a distraction12:55
gmann_yea, that need lot of work12:55
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alex_xuyea, and will become useless soon12:56
sdagueso, how about the following: we aim to have a doc plan discussion in 2 week's time at this meeting12:56
johnthetubaguywhat can we do, quick wins to the existing docs for L?12:56
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sdaguethings should have calmed down on the freeze and bug fix by then12:56
johnthetubaguyyeah, lets table that for then12:56
sdagueand we figure out what we can get through pre release at that point.12:56
oomichiyeah, and we need to discuss it across projects12:56
sdagueI'll commit to having a base plan at the start of the meeting12:56
sdagueand we can sort it out together12:56
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: remove v2.1 doc, ask people reference to v2. because v2.1 compatible with v212:56
johnthetubaguysdague: we have ideas here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-v2.1-api-doc12:57
sdagueoh, well that's what I get for being out for a week :)12:57
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alex_xusdague: do you want an action?12:57
sdaguesorry for not being caught up on that12:57
johnthetubaguyalex_xu: we need to stop the confusion, thats for sure12:57
sdaguealex_xu: lets wait until next week to set the action12:57
alex_xusdague: ok12:58
sdague#info detailed API doc plan discussion in 2 weeks time12:58
sdaguethat's probably enough for the agenda12:58
alex_xulet's move on, left 2 mins for open?12:58
alex_xu#topic open12:58
*** openstack changes topic to "open (Meeting topic: nova api)"12:58
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alex_xuone review requestion in the agenda12:59
alex_xu#link  https://review.openstack.org/#/c/209917/12:59
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alex_xuzhengyu, are you here?12:59
alex_xuKevin_Zheng_: cool13:00
alex_xuit is bug fix13:00
alex_xudo we have time for this in L?13:00
Kevin_Zheng_added also user_id this afternoon according to gmann's segestion13:00
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Kevin_Zheng_I think the code are quite ready13:00
johnthetubaguyit feels a bit like a feature that should wait for M?13:00
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sdaguealex_xu: it feels very close to the wire13:00
gmann_Kevin_Zheng_: yea IMO user_id would be good also13:00
sdagueif it was two weeks ago, maybe13:00
johnthetubaguyKevin_Zheng_: its really a question of review bandwidth13:00
alex_xuyea, a little late13:01
sdagueI'm happy to get that in as soon as we reopen master13:01
johnthetubaguyI like the change, but it feels too late13:01
johnthetubaguysdague: +113:01
alex_xulet's end the meeting, and we move the discussion to openstack-nova13:01
johnthetubaguyoops, yes13:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"13:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Aug 25 13:01:28 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)13:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-08-25-12.00.html13:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-08-25-12.00.txt13:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-08-25-12.00.log.html13:01
gmann_Thanks all13:01
Qiming#startmeeting senlin13:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Aug 25 13:01:49 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.13:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.13:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'senlin'13:01
alex_xuQiming: sorry for end meeting late one minute :)13:02
Qimingalex_xu, fine, :013:02
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Qimingmeeting agenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda13:03
Qimingfeel free to add items13:03
Qiming#topic liberty-3 workitems13:03
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*** openstack changes topic to "liberty-3 workitems (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:03
Qiming#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-liberty-workitems13:03
Qimingseems we still have quite a lot work left to do13:04
Qimingthe etherpad is not up-to-date, ...13:04
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Qiminglet's do a quick update on this13:05
haiweiyes, the exception handling is almost done13:05
Qiminggreat. pls update the page if so13:05
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QimingTriggers implementation is done (server side), not yet committed, waiting for another patch to merge13:06
jruanoi am behind, i was out last week. i have time to catch up on my items this week13:06
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Qimingthanks, jruano13:06
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QimingI was out in trip last week as well, will catch up this week13:06
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Qimingfunctional test framework is up, that is great!13:06
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Qimingand some fake drivers are already in place13:07
yanyanhuI think I don't have backlog item now since the cleansing of some importand workflows will be done through functional test13:07
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Qimingbasically, we made all interactions with other openstack services a plugin now13:07
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yanyanhuof course there are several big functional test cases need to be added to cover this work13:08
Qimingit is a configuration option that can be quickly reloaded (switched), so we can use fake drivers for functional testing13:08
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Qimingyanyanhu, we need to sync on the functional test design, would be a quick one I believe13:09
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Qimingclient unit test has just started, haiwei and I will jump on to that13:09
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Qimingunit test coverage is 82%, pretty good a number now13:10
haiweiI found the client unit tests are already assigned to some guys13:10
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jruanoi opened some bugs in the client unit tests13:10
jruanowas having some students i was training work on them13:10
Qimingthanks, jruano, will confirm and work on them13:10
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jruanoyep, some did partial fixes. check with them and reassign as needed13:11
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QimingI need to check the container cluster work from Tongji Univ13:11
Qimingsee where are we now13:11
Qimingthe mentor of that work is on trip these days, will catch him13:11
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jruanoplease keep me in the loop on that Qiming. i can catch up with that work this week13:12
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Qimingsure, jruano13:12
Qimingthose students have been playing with the lb policies and autoscalling policies13:12
Qimingthey have found quite some bugs, yanyanhu has been helping them fix them13:13
Qimingan intern from Germany has helped compiled a test report, covering almost all functionalities13:13
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Qimingyanyanhu, please share with the team once you have an updated version13:14
yanyanhuoh, sorry I think I forget to send out the updated document13:14
Qimingit is an encouraging result13:14
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Qiming#topic functional testing updates13:14
*** openstack changes topic to "functional testing updates (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:15
Qiminganything else to share, yanyanhu?13:15
yanyanhuI just merged the test case for cluster creating and deleting today https://review.openstack.org/21409013:15
yanyanhuI plan to add more tests for webhook with scaling policy and lb policy in the coming one or two weeks13:16
yanyanhuthen we can use them to verfiy the correctness of some important changes13:16
yanyanhuand also will propose a patch to use Senlin generic driver to manage keystone driver13:17
Qimingsince functional testing may take some time (though not really interacting with Nova or Heat yet), we need a design that will cover most functions with smallest number of test cases13:17
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Qimingwaiting 2 hours for gate result is not fun13:17
Qiminglet's move on13:18
Qiming#topic exception handling13:18
*** openstack changes topic to "exception handling (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:18
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Qimingany outstanding issues in this area?13:18
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haiweithe exception handling of the drivers are almost done13:18
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haiweinot that outstanding :)13:19
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Qimingokay, we need to make sure the exceptions are captured and handled in the right place (abstraction layer)13:19
haiweijust like we have designed, we translated all the exception from SDK to internal error and catch them in upper layer13:20
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Qimingthere are still some exception types to be killed from senlin/common/exception.py13:20
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haiweiyes, will kill them if they are not used13:20
Qimingwe may need a quick sync on that offline13:20
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QimingDon't know if xinhui is online13:21
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yanyanhuguess not13:21
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haiweisend a message on wechat13:22
Qiming#topic placement policy13:22
*** openstack changes topic to "placement policy (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:22
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Qiminghi, admin__, :)13:22
Qimingcool name13:22
admin__hi, Qiming...13:22
Qiminganything to share with team about placement policy?13:23
admin__I am adding the across AZ functions into base placement policy13:23
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admin__Have read the ticket of heat and think implements in senlin should be more easier13:24
admin__I will send out review for your comments13:24
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Qimingjust an update for you13:24
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admin__another thing is about vspherepolicy plugin13:24
admin__we may need to envolve it with new vio feature on affintiy/anti-affinty13:25
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Qimingdo you want to check it in as well?13:25
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Qimingany help needed from Senlin side?13:26
admin__not just load balancing aware placemet provided and also host level palcement13:26
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admin__do you think it is proper for us to check in the vsphere related policy?13:26
Qimingem, sounds interesting13:26
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Qimingthough host level placement is mostly transparent on public clouds13:27
Qimingthere are definitely use cases for private clouds13:27
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Qimingjust personal view on this13:27
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Qimingwould be interested in seeing the details13:27
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admin__okay, will send out review13:28
Qimingthanks. it will be at least helpful to trigger ideas when people develop their own policy plugins13:28
Qimingone thing to update with you is a call I just had with TOSCA people13:28
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Qimingwe may need to study the standard and do some work uniforming the terms13:29
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admin__what are the first priority?13:29
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admin__I mean the cooperation13:30
Qimingwhen looking from a standard's perspective, our sample policies today are still a little bit adhoc13:30
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Qimingwe will go in parallel13:30
Qimingthe standard is under-development, so is our code13:30
admin__could you give more introduction on TOSCA13:31
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admin__its mission and imapct13:31
Qimingwe will sync with the team regularly, to make sure we are walking closer to each other13:31
admin__by this opportuntiy13:31
jruanotosca is gaining a lot of visibility with vendors and cloud customers as well13:31
jruanoredhat i believe has adoped it for their platform13:32
Qimingadmin__, it will take too much time to go through all the details, I can share with you some docs and links offline13:32
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admin__jruano, I searched some cooperation between TOSCA AND cloudstack13:32
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Qimingin OpenStack, at least Heat has a sub-project called heat-translator translating TOSCA files to HOT13:33
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admin__Qiming, seems so complex and can not summerize with several words13:33
jruanoyes, for now openstack is the main platform13:33
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jruanoi have some overview decks i can share as well. ping me to remind me to send them out13:34
Qimingadmin__, if you go through the TOSCA standard quickly, you will find it is not that complicated13:34
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admin__Okay, thanks, Qiming, thanks, jruano13:35
Qimingit is really targeting real-world problems, not just some docs for you to archive, :)13:35
admin__I will read it13:35
Qiming#topic senlin-dashboard project13:35
*** openstack changes topic to "senlin-dashboard project (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:35
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Qimingplease check the meeting agenda wiki, I have attached two links13:36
Qiming#link https://launchpad.net/senlin-dashboard13:36
Qiming#link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/stackforge/senlin-dashboard/tree/13:36
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QimingZhenguo from Huawei has kindly offered to build a Horizon plugin in a sub-project senlin-dashboard13:36
Qimingwe had a discussion on this when I was in Xi'an last week13:37
yanyanhuthis is great13:37
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Qiminghe is also "recruiting" some developers from 99cloud to work on this13:37
Qimingit will help people get familiarized with Senlin quickly13:38
yanyanhuyep, definitely13:38
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QimingI'm not a web-UI person, but I believe Zhenguo can help lead that effort well13:38
haiweiis there any milestone for senlin-dashboard13:38
yanyanhuit can also help us to understand how horizon works with backend service13:39
Qimingwe may need to help them understand Senlin's concepts and APIs13:39
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Qiminghaiwei, not yet13:39
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yanyanhuwe are ready for question anytime13:39
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Qimingaccording to Zhenguo, developing horizon plugin is pretty a straightforward work13:39
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jruanodjango web app13:40
Qimingwe just need the right persons to do this13:40
haiweiit's senlin's sub-project, does it matter if senlin wants to become a openstack project13:40
Qiminghaiwei, it doesn't matter, afaict13:40
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haiweithat's good13:41
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Qimingas liberty-3 milestone is drawing near, we will need to work hard to do a release this time13:41
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Qimingsounds ambitious?13:42
jruanoit does, but i think it needs to happen this time13:42
yanyanhuwe should try our best I think13:42
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yanyanhu0.1 IMO :)13:43
Qimingyep, maybe senlin 0.1, ;)13:43
Qiminghoho, like that13:43
admin__why 213:43
Qimingthe project wasn't started yesterday, :)13:44
admin__2 is special in China13:44
yanyanhuadmin__, LoL13:44
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Qimingit means dumb13:44
haiweiyes, very special13:44
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jruanoah... 0.1 sounds like really early beta code13:45
yanyanhuI think jruano is right13:45
jruanosomething other than that i think better describes the current state of senlin13:45
yanyanhu0.2 is good13:45
Qiming0.2 is not 213:45
admin__stay foolish, stay hungry13:46
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Qimingno problem13:46
Qiming#topic open discussion13:46
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yanyanhuoh, the voting result will be published tomorrow13:47
QimingI don't have more to share13:47
admin__bless your guys13:47
yanyanhuvoting for topic13:47
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Qiminglet's pray tonight13:47
yanyanhuthanks ;p13:47
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Qiminganything else?13:48
yanyanhunope from me13:48
Qimingor time to pray?13:48
haiweinothing for me13:49
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Qimingokay, let's end this13:49
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"13:49
openstackMeeting ended Tue Aug 25 13:49:31 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)13:49
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-08-25-13.01.html13:49
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-08-25-13.01.txt13:49
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-08-25-13.01.log.html13:49
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haiweiyanyanhu, are you in senlin?13:49
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haiweiyanyanhu, still on line?13:50
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mesteryWho's here for a Neutron meeting? :)13:59
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yushiroyes :)13:59
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mesteryOK, we have a fairly packed agenda as we near the end of Liberty, so lets get rolling!14:00
emaganabuenos dias!14:00
mestery#startmeeting networking14:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Aug 25 14:00:27 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is mestery. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)"14:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'networking'14:00
mestery#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings Agenda14:00
mesterysalv-orlando-mob: -mob?14:01
mestery#topic Announcements14:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking)"14:01
mestery#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Liberty_Release_Schedule14:01
mestery#info Liberty-3 is next week! The end is near!14:01
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mestery#info mestery is on vacation next week and won't be on IRC Sun-Thur14:01
mestery#info armax carl_baldwin and dougwig will handle release duties for Neutron for Liberty-314:01
mesteryPlease, be gentle with armax carl_baldwin and dougwig folks ;)14:02
mesteryWe have a massive backlog of stuff in Liberty-3, we'll get to that later in the meeting.14:02
mestery#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReleaseNotes/Liberty#OpenStack_Liberty_Release_Notes14:02
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mestery#info Continue adding release notes for Liberty as features merge or critically customer visible bugs are found14:03
mesteryAny other announcements or shall we continue along?14:03
ajolate o/ :)14:03
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mesteryLets move along to bugs!14:03
mestery#topic Bugs14:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking)"14:03
mesteryUp first14:04
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mestery#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/148414814:04
openstackLaunchpad bug 1484148 in neutron "neutronclient gate broken following VPNaaS infra changes" [Critical,Confirmed] - Assigned to Paul Michali (pcm)14:04
mesterypc_m: What is the curretn status of this one?14:04
mesteryIt's our only Critical bug at the moment14:04
mesterypc_m: It looks like https://review.openstack.org/#/c/209887/ needs to merge yet? But it's workflow -1 at the moment.14:05
pc_mmestery: There is currently a workaround that disables VPN test cases.14:05
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mesterypc_m: So, is this bug no longer critical then?14:05
pc_mmestery: I have a commit in, but there is an open question posted to ML.14:05
mesterypc_m: Can you dig that lnk out so we can add it in the logs here?14:06
mesteryI'll wait for am inute ;)14:06
pc_mmestery: For a final solution, namely to add the plugin14:06
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neiljerramhttp://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-August/072763.html ?14:07
pc_m#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-August/072772.html14:07
regXboino, that's something different14:07
mesteryThanks pc_m and neiljerram14:08
mesteryOK, lets move to the next bug14:08
mestery#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/148828214:08
openstackLaunchpad bug 1488282 in neutron "Gate failures with 'the resource could not be found'" [High,New]14:08
pc_mmestery: Need decision on how to handle jobs.14:08
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openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0xa2ffa50>14:08
mesterypc_m: Reading that email again14:08
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mestery#action mestery to followup with pc_m on a way forward for the client with regards to VPN plugin14:09
pc_mSo, bug is not critial, but to do final solution we need to know if want one job for all tests, one for core and adv svcs, or one for each (core, VPN, LB, FW).14:09
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mesterypc_m: Lets do that post-meeting, I'll need to noodle on that email a bit14:09
pc_mmestery: ok14:09
mesterypc_m: I hear you14:09
salv-orlando mestery: cool, I'll have some noodles too ;)14:10
mesterypc_m: I know dougwig is still stuck in Utah (true story) as well, so we may want to wait until tomorrow to circle with him14:10
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mesteryOK, lets move on to armax's bug even though he's chosen not to join us this morning14:10
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mestery#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/148828214:10
openstackLaunchpad bug 1488282 in neutron "Gate failures with 'the resource could not be found'" [High,New]14:10
mesteryOr evening14:10
mesteryDEpending on where you are14:10
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mesterySo, armax reported this one last night14:10
mesteryIt's a gate failure ....14:11
* mestery runs the logstash query14:11
regXboithere is a similar signature appearing in the check pipeline as well14:11
mesteryregXboi: Oh really?14:11
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regXboiyes, I just had a tempest patch fail on show_tenant_networks returning 40414:12
mesteryLooks like 27 hits according to the query armax posted in the bug14:12
mesteryregXboi: Was that the FWaaS thing you were telling me about?14:12
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regXboimestery: nak14:12
mestery38 hits14:12
regXboimestery: the FWaaS thing is something different14:12
mesteryregXboi: ack14:13
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ajowhat's tempest.api.compute.admin.test_servers.ServersAdminTestJSON.test_list_servers_by_admin_with_all_tenants failing to look for?14:13
* regXboi is wondering if there isn't some crosstalk in nodepool again14:13
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mesteryregXboi: Feel free to mark that bug as confirmed since you've seen it as well14:13
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regXboimestery: done14:13
salv-orlandomestery: wait a sec14:13
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* mestery waits a sec14:14
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salv-orlandoI found a concurrency issue in tempest: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/195345/14:14
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salv-orlandoI never went around to complete the fix as it was not showing up again, I wonder if this trace has the same origin14:14
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regXboisalv-orlando: *that* is the signature that I saw in the check pipeline14:15
mesterysalv-orlando: It's worth looking into, can you add that into the bug by chance?14:15
salv-orlandoI can take over the bug for triaging if you like, my master14:15
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mesterysalv-orlando: Thank you ;)14:16
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ajobut isn't that test function targeting nova?14:16
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* ajo misses something :)14:16
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salv-orlandoajo: I know but every tempest test, when run with neutron creates some resources14:17
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regXboiajo: it targets nova APIs, but the underlying resources are neutrons14:17
salv-orlandoin this case I expect that if it creates a server a network and a post must be created somewhere14:17
salv-orlandoajo: I mean... not "somewhere" - I know *exactly* where they are created14:18
salv-orlandoor at least I should14:18
mesteryThanks for traiging further salv-orlando14:18
mesteryThose were the new bugs I wanted to highlight this week, does anyone have any other bugs they'd like to share with the broader team this week?14:19
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pc_mmestery: FYI, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214131/ has broken VPN (changed module path and name). I had put a fix in with https://review.openstack.org/#/c/213253/, but do it as a separate commit.14:19
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pc_mbut will14:19
ajoack :)14:19
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haleybmestery: i've also seen jenkins trip over this bug a lot recently, https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1488284 - review sent out this morning14:19
openstackLaunchpad bug 1488284 in neutron "_clean_updated_sg_member_conntrack_entries() is throwing an AttributeError occasionally" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Brian Haley (brian-haley)14:19
mesterypc_m: armax and I merged a fix for that last night14:19
haleyblogstash found 23K entries :(14:19
mesterypc_m: I don't have the commit handy, search for merges from armax14:19
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pc_mmestery: cool14:19
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mesteryhaleyb: Yikes, thanks for jumping on that14:20
ajohaleyb: looking at the patch, thanks :)14:20
mesteryhaleyb: I made that high14:20
haleybmestery: it was causing another patch of mine to fail jenkins14:20
mesteryhaleyb: I also added it to our bug-tracker in the meeting14:21
mesteryOK, lets move along now!14:21
mesteryI see we have emagana this week, so I wanted to see if he would like to give us an update from the Ops Meetup last week? regXboi was tehre too and could chime in as well14:21
mestery#topic Ops Meetup Summary14:21
*** openstack changes topic to "Ops Meetup Summary (Meeting topic: networking)"14:21
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mesteryemagana regXboi: Sound ok?14:21
emaganaI am around!14:21
* regXboi defers to emagana to start14:22
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* regXboi also notes dougwig was there, but appears to still be stuck in Utah (and I want to hear that story)14:22
emaganaThere were two important sessions for this team. The first one was called "burning issues" and the second "networking model"14:22
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mesteryregXboi: It involves a broken axle on his trailer and a blown tire as well. It's not pretty ;)14:22
regXboi#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PAO-ops-burning-issues14:23
mesteryemagana: Also, the large deployer session that carl_baldwin and I dialed in for.14:23
regXboi#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PAO-ops-network-model14:23
emagana#link: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PAO-ops-burning-issues14:23
emaganaok... I am slow today.. on the links..14:23
* mestery notes that session makes it sound like burning man for networking14:23
* salv-orlando wonders if AAA does not operate in Utah14:23
* mestery hands emagana some coffee14:23
regXboi#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PAO-ops-large-deployments14:23
regXboithat should be the links14:23
mesterysalv-orlando: Not in the middle of the desert14:23
emaganaon the networking model you will find that only 1 operators is still using nova-network14:23
mesteryemagana: YAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYY!!!!14:24
mesteryMOAR NEUTRON!14:24
* mestery quiets down now14:24
emaganaeverybody else uses neutron between ovs and lb will say is 50% - 50%14:24
emaganaso, it makes sense to provide the same support to both14:24
regXboiI would correct that14:24
regXboiI would have said 33/33/3314:24
emaganaregXboi: Yes, please, I did not review the latest changes14:24
mesteryemagana: Ack, that's what sc68cal is leading for us14:24
mestery33/33/33 regXboi?14:25
regXboiequal between ovs/lb/something else14:25
mesteryOVS - LB - nova-network?14:25
mesterysomething else14:25
salv-orlandofrom what emagana just said, I'd stop even thinking about migration then14:25
regXboisomething else = use Neutron as API only14:25
mesterysomething else being "human defined networking" /cc salv-orlando14:25
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regXboimestery: rotfl - Nice14:25
emaganaregXboi: that is right but the other 33 could be for SDN vendor specific14:25
mesterysalv-orlando: I stopped thinking about it a while ago ;)14:25
mesteryThose pesky vendors ;)14:25
emaganawhich means this team should keep supporting that model somehow14:25
emaganaha ha ha14:26
mesteryAnd this time, no one wanted to burn us all at the stake either, right?14:26
* ajo looks for the LB/QoS volunteers that vanished... will do himself if on time after bugkilling14:26
emaganaanyway.. the topic nova-network - neutron migration was not even mention14:26
regXboiI'd agree - the LB "vs" OVS discussion was much more interesting14:26
emaganaThere was a request for a patch to be merge regarding greceful restart of OVS and it is not merged and reported back to the Ops14:27
* mestery loves OVS AND Linuxbridge14:27
ajoemagana: it merged14:27
mesteryemagana: We should be able to land that before Liberty ships I expect14:27
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mesterynice ajo!14:27
regXboiemagana: actually, I think that patch merged14:27
* regXboi was watching it 14:27
emaganaYeap! All the details on the etherpads. I dont want to take all the time...14:27
mesteryemagana regXboi: Thanks for the update here!14:28
mesteryAny other questions from anyone before we move on?14:28
emaganabut regXboi  mention anything that I am missing14:28
regXboiI actually have one that isn't neutron but dear to my heart14:28
salv-orlandomestery: yeah14:28
regXboipretty much none of the operators are using ceilometer14:28
salv-orlandono complain about scale this time?14:28
emaganaregXboi: That is correct!14:28
mesterysalv-orlando: Not a single one14:28
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regXboisalv-orlando: well....14:28
mesterysalv-orlando: They've run out of things to complain about on neutron, they moved on to somethiong else :)14:28
regXboiI wouldn't say there were no complaints about scale14:29
salv-orlandono complain about complexity of managing components of the reference impl for a conf perspective?14:29
regXboibut it wasn't *neutron* scale14:29
regXboiit was *openstack* scale14:29
mesteryregXboi: Maybe less complaints?14:29
emaganasalv-orlando: the scalability issues were discussed previously and everybody pointed to rabbitmq  :-)14:29
regXboisalv-orlando: that was part of the gist of the LB "vs" OVS discussion14:29
regXboibut I think that covers it14:30
salv-orlandoregXboi: so in 21st century IT lingo "it does not scale" means I really have no idea whether it works or not but some folks I know had an issue with it so it does not scale"14:30
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ajorabbitmq is not scaling? :)14:30
salv-orlandoemagana: ok, what about managing configuration complexity?14:30
mesteryOK, lets move along, we've got more excitement to come in this meeting!14:30
regXboisalv-orlando: yes, most of the issues reported were anecdotal at best14:30
ajomay be we need a rabbit per openstack component in some deployments ;)14:30
salv-orlandothat was the other think that concerned operators14:30
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* regXboi watches mestery herd the cats14:31
emaganaoperators meet-up was weird. The level of participation was not as good as in Philadelphia14:31
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mesteryemagana: Maybe the ops were too busy using OpenStack happily to attend? :)14:31
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sc68calthat's because philadelphia is better than every other city14:31
* sc68cal ducs14:31
ajomestery: +1 :D14:31
* sc68cal ducks14:31
emaganasc68cal: +114:31
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* regXboi remembers batteries in the snowballs in Philadelphia14:32
xgermanmaybe there are less distractions in Philly14:32
emaganamestery: yeah.. too much noise before the session14:32
mesteryOK, now lets move along folks14:32
mestery#topic Docs14:32
*** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: networking)"14:32
emaganaok.. I keep going!14:32
mesteryemagana: Back to you sir for a quick update!14:32
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emaganaTo make it short I have updated the wiki yesterday night withpatches needed14:32
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emaganareminder - Please help documenting but no verbatim copies from internet!14:33
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mesteryemagana: Good idea14:33
ajoemagana, link?14:33
ajoneiljerram :)14:33
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emagana#link: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/196541/14:33
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emaganaOne review has a dependency in neytron code:14:34
emagana#link: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/185977/14:34
neiljerramI meant the link to the wiki that you mentioned.14:34
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emagananeiljerram: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings14:35
HenryGCan we just deprecate the wiki for documentation?14:35
john-davidgeemagana: That neutron patch was supposed to merge last night but it got caught in the gate by a merge conflict14:35
john-davidgeemagana: Ready to go now, just needs another +2 and a workflow14:35
emaganajohn-davidge: Thanks, will keep an eye on it..14:35
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emaganaWhen I said wiki, I mean the Neutron Wiki page14:35
mesteryHenryG: +1000.514:35
salv-orlandoHenryG: We can deprecate but in order for people to know we should write it on the wiki ;)14:35
* mestery wants to deprecate all wikis14:35
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salv-orlandounless you find a way to tell google to give wikis a lower page rank14:36
fawadkhaliqsalv-orlando: lol14:36
emaganaHenryG: We can move the remaining tasks for docs into a etherpad (already did) if the team prefers that14:36
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mesteryemagana HenryG: Ack on that14:36
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HenryGEvery wiki page could just be a single link to the real docs?14:36
neiljerramI'm happy to spend some time helping with docs, but it's not clear to me, from https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings, what still needs doing.14:36
emagananeiljerram: I can point you to the right direction after the meeting  ;-)14:37
emaganajust ping me14:37
neiljerramCool, we'll do that.14:37
mesteryThanks for the update emagana!14:37
emagananeiljerram: or you can take this one: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/196541   needs to be re-edited14:38
mesteryLets keep the train moving, we're almost out of gas14:38
mesteryOr coal14:38
mestery#topic Pecan Branch14:38
*** openstack changes topic to "Pecan Branch (Meeting topic: networking)"14:38
mesterysalv-orlando kevinbenton blogan: Go or no go for merging this back during Liberty yet?14:38
mesteryI still see some patches outstanding when I last looked yesterday14:38
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kevinbentonI think we need to rename the folder14:38
kevinbentonAnd merge it in14:38
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mesterykevinbenton: Ack14:39
mesterykevinbenton: Want to work with me on that so we can plan to merge it back later this week?14:39
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salv-orlandokevinbenton: so you've got the remaining todos ready to push? like bulk support?14:39
neiljerramemagana: OK, I'll do that.14:40
salv-orlandomestery, kevinbenton: it does not have to be perfect before merging back, but it must be imho 1) working, and 2) "quasi functionally equivalente"14:40
mesterysalv-orlando: Agreed14:40
salv-orlandoanyway feel free to keep me involved in the decision for merging it back14:40
mesteryIt will obviously be disabled by default for Liberty14:41
mesterysalv-orlando: Absolutely, and thank you!14:41
salv-orlandonow we can move on, my gracious majesty14:41
ajomakes sense14:41
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kevinbentonRight, bulk support will be questionable14:41
mestery#topic Liberty-3 BPs hanging over our heads14:41
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*** openstack changes topic to "Liberty-3 BPs hanging over our heads (Meeting topic: networking)"14:41
mesteryWe have a lot14:41
mesteryA LOT14:42
mestery#link https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/liberty-314:42
* ajo looks14:42
* mestery weeps14:42
mesteryI'm going to spend time cleaning this up, but we've reached the part of the cycle where everyone will dislike me as I move things out of Liberty that realistically won't make it14:42
salv-orlandomestery: there's nothing to weep - it's a LOT LESS than the previous cycles14:42
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ajoQoS API extension could almost be cleared out, cleaning out some bugs, and done14:42
mesterysalv-orlando: I think armax said that since the vendor decomposition, work has moved to other repos. He may be right.14:43
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xgermanmystery the Octavia one is misclassified: We are almost done14:43
mesteryajo: I'd be good with that, especially if you file the bugs14:43
mesteryxgerman: You mean it will make Liberty yet? Or no?14:43
ajomestery: bugs are filed, /me looks for link14:43
mesterydougwig owed me an answero n that14:43
salv-orlandomestery: I think service decomp was even more effective. But we can bikeshed on this another day14:43
xgermanwill make Liberty -14:43
john-davidgemestery: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/196541 Is good to go for a seconf merge attempt once it gets another +2. That will close out the IPv6 PD blueprint14:43
mesteryajo: Cool! Please mark the BP complete then14:43
mesterysalv-orlando: ack ack ack14:43
john-davidgemestery: wrong link!14:43
mesteryjohn-davidge: Cool! I bet haleyb or carl_baldwin will take you up on that once you get the correct link14:44
john-davidgemestery: correct link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/185977/ :)14:44
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mesteryxgerman: So, I'll mark Octavia as "NEeds Review" then14:44
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john-davidgehaleyb: carl_baldwin: I am beholden to your reviews : ) https://review.openstack.org/#/c/185977/14:45
mesteryhaleyb carl_baldwin: Could use your eyes and gracious approval on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/185977/14:45
ajomestery: ack14:45
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mesterykevinbenton: Have you had much of a chance to look at this one: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/vlan-aware-vms14:45
mesteryOr anyone else?14:45
mesteryI see a bunch of patches14:45
haleybjohn-davidge: ack, i see it was just rebased14:46
mesteryBut I'm worried they showed up late in the cycle14:46
carl_baldwinjohn-davidge: I had it up this morning.14:46
kevinbentonmestery: only briefly14:46
kevinbentonNot looking like it will make it14:46
mesterykevinbenton: Looks like you're the only one to briefly review it so far14:46
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mesteryajo: Waht is the status of this one? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/ml2-ovs-qos-with-dscp14:46
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kevinbentonI think they need a Nova change anyway14:47
ajomestery: that one is proposed as RFE now,14:47
john-davidgecarl_baldwin: haleyb: Thanks guys!14:47
ajomestery: I told them "show me the code", and we will propose, otherwise: M14:47
mesteryajo: It's out14:47
ajomestery: I guess the realistic thing is M,14:47
mesteryajo: In agreement with you14:48
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* mestery thinks carl_baldwin is busy working on unit tests for address scopes right now14:48
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john-davidgecarl_baldwin: haleyb: Would appreciate some eyes on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/212688/ as well. There’s a bug fix that depends on it14:48
carl_baldwinmestery: Not looking good unless I can find a chunk of time this week.14:48
mesterysalv-orlando: This one looks like Mitaka, ack if you agree: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/consolidate-extensions14:48
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ajomestery: also LB/QoS, if volunteers don't reappear I can try for L soon, and we can decide based on how invasive does it look, and otherwise postpone to M14:48
mesterycarl_baldwin: We could do an FFE for that one too14:48
salv-orlandomestery: yes, because I am stashing the work on top of the pecan switch14:49
salv-orlandowe cannot really make both for L14:49
mesterysalv-orlando: ack ack ack14:49
salv-orlandonot a slight grim minimal chance14:49
vikram__ajo: LB/QoS I will be taking it up in M14:49
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carl_baldwinmestery: It is so close.14:50
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ajovikram__, ideally we should have had it by L :)14:50
mesterycarl_baldwin: I know, we'll figure it out14:50
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tidwellrmestery: I've got some doubts about finishing https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/bgp-dynamic-routing, code and reviews just coming in too late. Not sure if FFE is feasible14:50
vikram__ajo: I think initial QoS got it there so late :)14:50
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ajomestery: I tried to mark https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/quantum-qos-api as complete, no permissions14:50
mesterytidwellr: I'd be up for an FFE for that, but let me work with carl_baldwin and haleyb to understand what that would look like14:50
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rossella_shttps://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/restructure-l2-agent needs reviews. I'd appreciate anybody having a look.14:51
carl_baldwintidwellr: mestery:  Let’s sync up on Thursday.  See what you can do with it.14:51
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vikram__carl_baldwin: thanks14:51
kevinbentonrossella_s: ack14:51
tidwellrcarl_baldwin: ack14:52
mesteryrossella_s: Yes! That will get an FFE for sure, you only need reviews there14:52
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mesterykevinbenton: Get your team on those! ;)14:52
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kevinbentonTeam, look at those14:52
ajorossella_s: ack14:52
HenryGmestery: I assume the reference implementation split is going to M?14:52
mesterykevinbenton: Nice work14:52
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mesteryHenryG: Yes, I'm not keen to be burned this late in the cycle14:52
rossella_smestery, kevinbenton ajo thanks!14:52
mesteryI like my skin in an unburned state14:52
* kevinbenton has upper management skills :) 14:52
yongshenggong_kevinbenton: ack14:52
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* mestery promotes kevinbenton 14:52
mesteryYou're a Major now kevinbenton!14:53
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emaganagod save the Major!14:53
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mestery#topic Open Discussion14:53
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking)"14:53
ajotalking of this, does it make sense that I merge QoS stuff now, like this now: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/216717/  ?14:53
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shihanzhangfor resource timestamp https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/add-port-timestamp, code is reviewing, Not sure if FFE is feasible14:53
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kevinbentonajo: isn't that merged?14:54
ajoI'm supposed to do that for reference control plane, but I guess I have good knowledge of the QoS-api / qos-DB / objects / rpc callbacks to do such thing now14:54
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ajowrong link14:54
mestery#info Happy birthday kevinbenton!14:54
mestery#link https://youtu.be/1fnhgzV1HhA14:54
xgerman#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214776/14:54
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xgermanmore flavor fun14:54
ajoI was meaning stuff like that ^ :)14:55
ajokevinbenton, happy birthday!!! ;)14:55
vikram__Happy B'DAY Kekvinbenton!14:55
* mestery hopes armax and marun take kevinbenton out for a birthday celebration14:55
salv-orlandohappy birthday kevinbenton14:55
shihanzhangkevinbenton, happy birthday!!!14:55
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fawadkhaliqHappy Birthday kevinbenton14:55
mesterykevinbenton: You're 17 today, right? ;)14:55
xgermanHappy Birthday!!14:55
hichiharakevinbenton Happy Birthday14:55
ajomestery: lol14:55
yongshenggong_kevinbenton, have a beer today14:55
xgermanboy genius?14:55
liudongkevinbenton, happy birthday:)14:56
rossella_shappy birthday Kevin!!14:56
emaganaHappy one!  Felicidades!14:56
kevinbentonyongshenggong_: we had enough beer last week :)14:56
yushirokevinbenton: Happy birthday :)14:56
amotokihappy birthday kevin!14:56
mesterykevinbenton: And thanks for making OpenStack China hackathon succesful! Next week I'll leave time for you to update the team on what went on there :)14:56
emaganakevinbenton: we want to know everything that happened in China!14:56
mlavallekevinbenton: feliz cumpleanios!14:56
kevinbentonmestery: I'm on my phone, not enough time to type lots of details14:56
kevinbentonIt went well14:57
russellbugh, had the meeting time wrong on my calendar :(14:57
mesterykevinbenton: Next week14:57
emaganakevinbenton: everything!14:57
kevinbentonLots of good scalability bugs14:57
* john-davidge pours kevinbenton a birthday beer14:57
ajo++!! :)14:57
mesteryrussellb: It's ok, next week you can lead the meeting! :D14:57
mesterybeers for everyone!14:57
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* russellb buys the beers14:57
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* regXboi asks for two half beers14:57
mesteryOK, thanks folks!14:57
russellbregXboi: granted14:57
mesteryKeep the reviews chugging14:57
mesteryWe've got a lot of code to merge in the next 1.5 weeks14:57
* regXboi notes specifically - black and tan14:58
kevinbentonajo: I say merge that QoS!14:58
mesteryLets see what we can accomplish14:58
mesteryAnd thanks for making Neutron and OpenStack awesome!14:58
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"14:58
ajokevinbenton: that's what common sense tells me14:58
openstackMeeting ended Tue Aug 25 14:58:14 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)14:58
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-08-25-14.00.html14:58
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-08-25-14.00.txt14:58
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-08-25-14.00.log.html14:58
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ajobut I didn't want to abuse my +2 or +A ;)14:58
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emaganaciao pescau!14:59
yongshenggong_ajo: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/216603/14:59
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ajoyongshenggong_ +++15:01
ajothanks  :)15:01
ajoyongshenggong_: can you check the tests failures? :)15:01
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mesteryFolks: I'm going to cancel the drivers meeting today, or least move it a bit. I don't see carl_baldwin, dougwig is trapped in Utah, amotoki may be here, but kevinbenton is on his phone15:03
shihanzhangI think we can move it a bit :)15:03
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kevinbentonmestery: move 15 minutes into the future?15:04
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kevinbentoni'm on my computer now15:04
mesterykevinbenton: WFM! Ping me when you're ready15:04
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* russellb lurks15:04
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russellb(i'm bad at lurking, i may say stuff :-p)15:04
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* neiljerram sits quietly in a corner15:05
neiljerramemagana: Are you still here?15:06
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mesteryneiljerram russellb: Drivers meeting moved out 15 minutes or so15:06
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evgenyfHi guys, will neutron advanced services meeting take place today?15:07
kevinbentonmestery: i'm ready now. just wanted to catch up on the responses to the tags thread15:07
mesterykevinbenton: Lets rock and roll baby!15:07
mestery#startmeeting neutron-drivers15:08
openstackMeeting started Tue Aug 25 15:08:03 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is mestery. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:08
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:08
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron-drivers)"15:08
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_drivers'15:08
mestery#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NeutronDrivers Agenda15:08
kevinbenton#topic vim or emacs15:08
mestery#info kevinbenton amotoki and mestery are here, though I hope armax and russellb lurk as well15:08
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sc68calkevinbenton: someone's feeling fiesty15:08
mestery#topic Bug Review15:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Bug Review (Meeting topic: neutron-drivers)"15:08
mestery#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/148664915:09
openstackLaunchpad bug 1486649 in neutron "Enhance DHCP agent and IP library for networking-calico interface driver" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Neil Jerram (neil-jerram)15:09
russellbthat was a very short 15 minutes15:09
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mesteryneiljerram: This one is yours I believe15:09
neiljerramYes, just hoping for support for this to be approved for L-3.15:09
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mesteryLooks like haleyb and carl_baldwin are both good with this. As L3 Lieutenants, I trust their judgement here.15:09
kevinbentonneiljerram: you think this is non-invasive enough for l3?15:09
mesteryneiljerram: You have haleyb and carl_baldwin onboard, so you're good15:09
mesterykevinbenton: See ^^^15:09
neiljerramCode is all already there and has been through many cycles.15:09
kevinbentonif they are good, i'm fine with it15:09
mesterykevinbenton: But, please review and if you think otherwise, say so15:10
neiljerramkevinbenton: Yes, I believe so, I've tried to be super-careful about that.15:10
amotokineiljerram: how many works do we need to complete the rfe?15:10
kevinbentonneiljerram: do you have a link to the code reviews handy?15:10
neiljerramCedric and Oleg have been v helpful, too15:10
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neiljerramNote that I have some comments from Carl and Salvatore currently still pending.15:11
* haleyb wonders if he got a promotion from 'core'15:11
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mesteryhaleyb: Would "private" be acceptable? ;)15:12
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haleybpfc is fine15:12
mesteryI think we can move on from this. neiljerram, you're in good hands here I think15:12
neiljerramBut I will address those today, so they will hopefully be mer15:12
neiljerramoops, didn't mean that one.  But thanks, mestery15:13
kevinbentonyeah, these don't look too invasive15:13
mesteryNExt up15:13
mestery#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/146836615:13
openstackLaunchpad bug 1468366 in neutron "RFE - Logging API for security group and firewall rules" [Undecided,Confirmed] - Assigned to Yushiro FURUKAWA (y-furukawa-2)15:13
kevinbentonlooks like a little agreement on abstraction is needed15:13
mesteryLogging API for SG and FWaaS rules15:13
mesterysc68cal: This one you've been involved in15:13
mesteryAnd I believe sc68cal may have indicated this is likely a Mitaka thing15:13
mesterysc68cal: Commented as such in the review itself15:14
sc68calMostly because the spec continued to have only one implementation - that file logging - the api itself did not have flexibility about how the storage part of the API should be pluggable15:15
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russellbsc68cal: sounds like a critical piece to me15:15
sc68callogging packets on the compute node/network node is not cloudy15:15
kevinbentonso we can marked it as shipped in Liberty but we only support logging to /dev/null15:15
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russellbif there's no info about how to make it seriously useful, no need to rush it15:15
sc68calplus there was a lot of churn in the specs repo - at one point there were 3 specs filed for the same RFE15:15
sc68calso they didn't make it easy to review.15:16
mestery#info Logging API is a Mitaka item15:16
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HenryGMy issue with it is that a logging API should be one spec, and logging for SG/FW should be a separate one15:17
mestery#topic Open Discussion15:17
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: neutron-drivers)"15:17
mesteryThose were the only specific ones on the agenda15:17
kevinbentonskipped my bug15:17
openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x9ebe3d0>15:17
openstackLaunchpad bug 1486882 in neutron "ml2 port cross backends extension" [Undecided,Confirmed] - Assigned to Dong Liu (liudong78)15:18
mesterykevinbenton: Please, post it here115:18
amotokisc68cal: I hope to keep the rfe bug description to catch up with the ongoing discussion.15:18
mestery#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/148688215:18
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kevinbentoni think this will be mitaka15:18
sc68calamotoki: thanks - although now they're baking rsyslog into the API for logging. :-\15:18
kevinbentonand am going to discuss it in the ML2 illuminati meetup in september15:18
kevinbentonbut the general idea is that we should make the tunnel endpoint a port binding property15:19
mesterykevinbenton: Please don't tell me that ML2 is having a mid-cycle of their own15:19
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kevinbentonmestery: i wouldn't call it a mid-cycle. it's much more like a 3/4ths cycle :)15:19
yongshenggong_ajo: sure15:19
mesterykevinbenton: I'd argue 99/100 given when it is15:19
mesteryBut ok15:19
russellbML2 as a separate group / meetup / whatever seems odd15:20
russellbwhen it's a fundamental part of core neutron15:20
mesteryrussellb: Very odd15:20
kevinbentonit's not really a meetup15:20
kevinbentoner midcycle15:20
russellbpeople in a room?15:20
mesteryI wish the ML2 team actually communicated with the neutron team more15:20
mesteryI suspect we'll need to deal with that at some point15:20
russellbi don't understand why it's a team exactly15:20
russellbbut ok :)15:21
amotokiaccording to ml2 meeting logs, it seems a sprint for some specific topics.15:21
mesteryMe either15:21
mestery#action mestery to encourage ML2 to use main Neutron meeting and communicate more with their overlords15:21
mesterykevinbenton: You can be my trojan horse into ML2 for now15:22
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HenryGI think it's a carry-over from when it used to be all the driver maintainers in a meeting15:22
mesteryHenryG: It appears to now be a vacuum, which is never good15:23
mesteryEverytime this has happened, nothing good has come out of it15:23
* mestery grumbles15:23
mesteryLets move along15:23
mesteryvikram__ has one for us here today too15:23
* mestery #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/147652715:23
openstackLaunchpad bug 1476527 in neutron "RFE - Add common classifier resource" [Undecided,New] - Assigned to YujiAzama (azama-yuji)15:23
mesteryThis one seems like a Mitaka item to me15:24
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amotokitotally agree15:24
mesteryamotoki: Feel free to comment in the bug please15:24
mesterysc68cal as well15:24
amotokii have another one bug 1472076.15:24
openstackbug 1472076 in neutron "Add enable_new_agents to neutron server" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1472076 - Assigned to Hirofumi Ichihara (ichihara-hirofumi)15:24
vikram__mestery: thanks for discussing this up:-)15:24
mesteryvikram__: yw :)15:25
amotokithe spec review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/170774/ looks good and it would be small.15:25
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amotokiI was just asked from the author.15:25
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mesteryamotoki: I agree with you here!15:26
russellbseems reasonable15:26
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amotokimoved to Triaged15:27
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mesteryamotoki: I just merged the spec15:27
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mesteryLets get this into Liberty!15:27
amotokihichihara: it's yours. now accepted. ^^15:27
mestery#topic Open Discussion15:28
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: neutron-drivers)"15:28
hichiharaamotoki mestery russellb: thank you!! :)15:28
shihanzhangI have anothor one bug 1468236, https://launchpad.net/bugs/146823615:28
openstackLaunchpad bug 1468236 in neutron "enable neutron support distributed DHCP agents" [Undecided,Confirmed]15:28
russellbi didn't do anything :)  but you're welcome!15:28
shihanzhangit is about distributed dhcp agent15:28
russellb22 comments on the spec and a couple of -1s15:29
mesteryshihanzhang: Looking15:29
amotokishihanzhang: there seems many comments and more discusssion looks needed.15:30
mesteryshihanzhang: I think this is Mitaka at this point15:30
amotokiEarly mitaka sounds good.15:30
mesteryAnything else?15:30
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neiljerramIs there some kind of knob I should twiddle, on https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1486649, to indicate approved for L15:30
openstackLaunchpad bug 1486649 in neutron "Enhance DHCP agent and IP library for networking-calico interface driver" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Neil Jerram (neil-jerram)15:30
* mestery tags kevinbenton 15:30
kevinbentonshall we do them?15:31
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neiljerram(sorry to bring that up _again_....)15:31
mesterykevinbenton: As long as they are opaque to the backend, I'm +1.515:31
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russellbif it tries to be consistent with existing similar things (what nova did is as good as any), and is explicitly opaque to backends (at least in documented intent), then +1 from me15:31
kevinbentonmestery: there is no realistic way to stop a backend from using them15:32
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amotokicorrect, but we can document for major tags.15:32
russellbany backend officially a part of neutron should be due a wrist slap if they do15:32
kevinbentonsomething i noticed is that nova tags don't look like key/value pairs15:32
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russellbkevinbenton: true, but the API consumer could just set the tag as "key=value"15:33
russellbif that's what they wanted15:33
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mesteryneiljerram: Targeted it to Liberty-315:33
amotokiglance and cinder have similar cencept called "metadata".15:33
russellbit's just string blobs stored int he db and reflected back in the API15:33
neiljerrammestery: thx!15:33
kevinbentonrussellb: yeah, only thing that sucks about that is you can't ask the API for a specific key15:33
russellbyeah, but it'd be odd if someone had enough tags where asking for a specific one was important15:34
kevinbentonso it will always be up to the client to parse all of the tags to find the one it's looking for15:34
* russellb nods15:35
russellbhave to weigh that against cross-API consistency15:35
kevinbentonamotoki: how to glance and cinder do it?15:36
kevinbentonamotoki: are they key/value pairs?15:36
kevinbentonamotoki: or just a list of strings?15:36
russellbslightly different concepts though15:36
amotokikevinbenton: I haven't investigated them yet, but it seems key/valye from horizon impl.15:36
russellbimage metadata are defined things15:36
russellbbits of info needed for nova to know how to interpret and consume the image15:37
russellbnot opaque user-only things15:37
russellbyou can use it for custom stuff too, but that's not the primary purpose15:37
* mestery is in two meetings and 3 conversations right now so is having trouble15:37
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amotokiiirc glance image metadata has hypervisor-specific information15:37
russellbnot sure about the cinder one, i don't remember that15:38
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amotokione important point is that it is visible for admin15:38
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mesteryamotoki: That's a good point indeed15:39
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mesteryrussellb: these being visible to admin15:40
-amotoki- should reply the mailing thread rather than discuss here15:40
russellbright, isn't everything?  :)15:41
kevinbentonrussellb: i think admin-only is what amotoki meant15:41
mesteryyeah, true, like I said, in 2 meetings and 3 conversations, and failing at all of them15:41
russellbkevinbenton: oh, for cinder and glance?15:42
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kevinbentonamotoki: was that for cinder or glance?15:42
kevinbentonregardless, i guess the outcome is that we are okay with tags15:43
amotokikevinbenton: yes, but i need to check15:43
salv-orlandore tags: the temptation of using them as a way for stashing everything you want in it will be too much for many devs15:44
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kevinbentonperhaps we can add a feature that randomly deletes them15:44
kevinbentonto show how unreliable they are for devs :)15:44
salv-orlandowe can support them and they're a good thing to have, but we just can't stop plugins from using them to push info down to backends15:44
mesteryThe issue for me here is that once that happens it's game over for the neutron API as an abstraction I guess15:44
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russellbit's something ot watch out for for things in the neutron stadium15:45
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russellbif someone is a bad actor, they should be asked to remove that15:45
russellb(or be removed from neutron)15:45
russellbif they're removed, they do what they want15:45
kevinbentonbut couldn't they do the same thing with the name field right now?15:45
russellband whatever, no sense worrying about that case15:45
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salv-orlandomy opinion now is that you can't just stop that from happening15:46
russellbsure, or port binding profile for ports at least15:46
amotokiport binding is a chaos field :-(15:46
salv-orlandoand on the other hand tagging are a good thing to have15:46
mesterysalv-orlando: But we can force them out of the stadium15:46
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russellbthere are standards, man!15:46
salv-orlandomestery: I think we've there long enough to know that doing police work is just a waste of time15:46
mesterysalv-orlando: Yes, and haters gonna hate, and marketers gonna market15:47
mesterySo, do we just allow this in?15:47
russellbwith caveats in the spec and code?  wfm15:47
salv-orlandofwiw I am ok with it15:47
russellbhappy to review the impl :)15:47
salv-orlandowho knows this perhaps will stop several teams from pushing weird attribute extensions15:47
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mesteryConsensus on a good hearted and useful feature that will be used by evil people everywhere for nefarious purposes!15:48
mesteryShall we close this meeting now or is there other things to discuss?15:48
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mesteryI'll take that as a +1 from everyone then.15:49
mesteryThanks for the discussion today!15:49
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:49
openstackMeeting ended Tue Aug 25 15:49:41 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:49
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2015/neutron_drivers.2015-08-25-15.08.html15:49
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2015/neutron_drivers.2015-08-25-15.08.txt15:49
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2015/neutron_drivers.2015-08-25-15.08.log.html15:49
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amotokithanks, bye!15:50
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* morgan sets up camp.17:51
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morganajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, ericksonsantos, geoffarnold, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, joesavak, lbragstad, lhcheng, marekd, morganfainberg, nkinder, raildo, rharwood, rodrigods, roxanaghe, samueldmq, stevemar, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong17:57
morganCourtesy ping for Keystone Irc meeting17:58
morganShould be a short meeting today i hope17:59
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morgan#startmeeting keystone17:59
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openstackMeeting started Tue Aug 25 17:59:33 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is morgan. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:59
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:59
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"17:59
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'17:59
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morganHi everybody! feature freeze is around the corner17:59
henrynashwow….meeting started on the nose18:00
morganPlease take some18:00
morganTime and check out keystoneauth. We would like to cut 1.0 this week18:00
morganBut if it isnt ready, it isnt ready18:00
morganThis request is for a full review of the library not specific patches.18:00
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morganOk moving on to the topics today.18:00
bknudsonwe can't test keystoneauth with the feature branch18:01
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morganNo you cant at the moment.18:01
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bknudsonat least the ksc branch with master merged18:01
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bknudson(master from a few weeks ago, don't know about today's)18:02
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bknudsonso i don't think we should release ksa if we can't test it.18:02
morganWe are in a chicken and egg18:02
morganWe are going to need to release it to really test it18:02
bknudsonwe need a release of ksa.18:02
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bknudsonthen we can test it18:02
bknudsonhere's the change to release ksa 0.4.0: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/213573/18:03
morganThe integration branch isnt going to really work until we do. And real testing cant happen until we are set. Anyway we need to declare the interfaces stable18:03
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bknudsonthen the ksc branch can run with that18:03
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morganThat is the major concern with 1.018:03
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morganI cant add ksa to g-r until we are saying the interfaces are stable18:04
morganAnd testing is very limited until then18:04
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bknudsonthe feature branch doesn't use g-r18:04
morganThe feature branch also not a good representation18:04
morganAnyway to discuss offline18:05
morgan#topic improper handling in osc of certain entities18:05
*** openstack changes topic to "improper handling in osc of certain entities (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:05
morganhenrynash: o/18:05
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henrynashok, so I think davechen raise this…you on?18:05
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henrynashok, I’ll handle18:06
henrynashso the issue is that osc assumes that all entitis have a name attribute18:06
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henrynash(that’s how osc show works)18:06
henrynashand we used to adhere to that rule18:06
morganWe need a "name" attribute?18:06
henrynash..but more recently created entities don’t (e.g. IDP)18:07
morganThis is kind of a silly requirement. But meh. I dont care which way we go18:07
henrynashso we either need to make osc more flexibe (my choice too) or have to give all our entities a name attrib18:07
bknudsonI don't think we should change keystone to meet osc.18:07
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gyeemake osc support extras18:08
bknudsonwe need to be able to build the rest interface the way that works best for us.18:08
gyeejust kidding18:08
henrynashthat’s my view too, but wanted to get other’s views18:08
dolphmregions don't have names, either, i don't think18:08
henrynashyeah, there a few that don't18:08
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dolphmbknudson: ++18:08
gyeedolphm, region used to have name18:09
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morganDont have a strong opinion on this. But the argument is going to be consistency in the openstack apis18:09
dstanekour models should be ours and not based on outside forces18:09
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dolphmgyee: now, it was just region="abcxyz" and then when we made it a first class entity, we moved that arbitrary string value into the id field, so {"region": {"id": "abcxyz"}18:09
morganSame basic argument as the pagination thing: resources should look like a certain thing18:09
morganSo assumptions can be made18:09
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henrynashmorgan: so that’s a good question…is that a cross-OS statement - that first class entities should have a name attribute?18:10
morganI would ask the api-wg18:10
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dolphmmorgan: there are surely other things that exist without names...18:10
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morganIf they say yes, then the direction becomes easier18:10
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gyeedolphm, k, I thought "region" itself is a name, maybe not18:10
henrynashmorgan: ok, I’ll take that action18:10
dolphmgyee: sort of, yes18:10
morganIf they say "no" or "undefined" we should change osc18:10
haneefwe don't have name for certain entities,  but in id we actually store names instead of uuid18:11
henrynashhaneef: agreed18:11
gyeelike IdP, protocol, etc18:11
dolphmhaneef: the difference between an ID and a name is whether it's the URI reference or not18:11
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morganIf we need to represent an attribute as both name and something else we can do that too18:11
dolphmhaneef: and mutability. IDs are not mutable, names generally are18:12
morganFor the sake of "consistency".18:12
henrynashok, et me take this to the api-wg18:12
morganBut lets see what the api-wg sayd18:12
henrynashok, so we have a sublimental question18:12
lhchenghenrynash: do you have more context what's the issue on osc show command? is it error-ing out? not sure if it is really an issue on osc.18:12
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morganIf they don't say name should be there, we work with osc to better support the varying data models18:12
henrynashso that is part of the 2nd question18:13
henrynashthe way osc show works is it does a list filtered on the name18:13
morganBut sure18:13
henrynashin keystone, are rule for filtering is if you provide a filter we don’t understand, then we ignore it18:13
morganLike i said we might need to be smarter internally if the client cant be18:13
morganWe should return no results with a bogus filter imo18:14
henrynashsome folks feel that maybe if you supplya filter we don’t understand you should get nothing from a list request18:14
henrynashand that is the question18:14
morganYou asked for something we cant answer, no results match18:14
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dstanekwhat is an example of a filter we don't understand? something like: ?bugus=true ?18:15
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henrynashso  think when we last had this discussion we decided the opposite :-), but Im fine with changing it….but suscpetd we would have to have a deprecation cycle18:15
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gyeehenrynash, aren't some of the filters directly tied to authorization as well18:15
* morgan doesnt remeber this alternate decision18:15
gyeelike filter_protected?18:16
henrynashdstanek: yes …and in this case list IDP?name=xyz (!)18:16
henrynashmorgan: twas a long time ago!18:16
morganI would push towards bogus filters = no results18:16
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haneefgyee: yes. domain_id filter is tied to authrorization18:16
morganThat seems... More "normal"18:16
gyeeso bogus filter would yield a 401 sometime18:16
dstanekmorgan: ++18:16
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henrynashso I’m cool woth that….but suggest we must depreacte the old functionality18:17
gyeewill have to double check that code18:17
morgangyee: we'll have to work on some of that. The protected decorators are going to go away18:17
dstanekthat basically means pulling out the query params we know about and assuming the rest are filters18:17
morgandstanek: yah. A bit more work18:17
samueldmqmorgan, ++ it's like having a sieve where the grains do not pass, which makes sense18:17
lhcheng_henrynash:  thought that is controlled in the osc code, filtering by name/id is only done if the entity supports it.18:17
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dstanekthis can break the world since right now things would just work18:17
samueldmqdstanek, yeah, that's how we need to deprecate18:18
henrynashlhcheng_: but you can fire any http command you like at keystone with radome filtes18:18
samueldmqdstanek, why*18:18
morganhenrynash: so lets propose the changes to filters and talk to api-wg18:18
dstaneksamueldmq: users?what=huh will give me all of the users in the future it won't18:18
morganI think that is all we have to discuss at this point.18:19
samueldmqdstanek, yes, is there a way to deprecate bad usage of a call ?18:19
morganI think that is all we have to discuss at this point.18:19
henrynashmorgan: agreed - i’ll take both to the api-wg18:19
samueldmqdstanek, like, warning in the logs ? that's all ?18:19
morganSounds good18:19
morganOk lets move on18:19
dstaneksamueldmq: not that easy since this isn't necessarily a server thing18:20
morganhenrynash: maybe we make an explicit filter= param18:20
morganhenrynash: and leave the old behavior as is for now18:20
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morganAnyway moving on - we can see what the api-wg comes back with18:21
samueldmqdstanek, I think so, it's basically the server behavior that is changing, isn't it ?18:21
morgan#topic Call For Reviews18:21
*** openstack changes topic to "Call For Reviews (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:21
morgan#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/213820/ assignment testing chain please review18:21
morgan#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214766/18:21
morganThat is the websso chain, please review18:21
morgan#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/212045/18:22
morganPlease review18:22
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morgan#topic policies18:22
*** openstack changes topic to "policies (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:22
morgangyee: O/18:22
gyeeI had a chat with samueldmq over this18:23
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gyeeso there are some security issues we may need to address18:23
gyee1) policy validation, like maintaining the hash for validation at the endpoint18:24
morganWhat validation?18:24
morganPlease be more specific18:24
gyeemaking sure the policy the endpoints received has not been altered18:24
dstanekare we talking endpoint policy stuff, dynamic policy stuff, other?18:25
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gyeeendpoint policy18:25
samueldmqdstanek, policy distribution18:25
david8hugyee, like man in the middle attack?18:25
samueldmqmorgan, that's kind of what lhcheng_ asked in the spec, a mechanism to check the policy has not been altered by a mitm attack18:25
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samueldmqdavid8hu, ++18:26
gyeedavid8hu, right, or just making sure the file on disk is consistent18:26
samueldmqdstanek and marekd suggested that TLS solves that already, but gyee wanted another level of checking (optionally)18:26
* morgan falls back to "we should use cms and not distribute policy via keystone" but has lost that argument18:26
dstanekmorgan: ++18:27
morganand where do you get this checksum? Keystone?18:27
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dstanekso where does the hash come from?18:27
morganAlso subject to mitm18:27
gyeenot if they are signed18:27
dstanekthe only safe way to do it would be to hard code it in the config or some other non-Keystone process18:27
morganTLS is sufficient in these regards unless we are doing pki signatures and im going to -2 that for now18:27
morganDont over think this to start18:28
morganThis is scope creep18:28
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morganBuild signing afterwards on top of it once it works. TLS is good enough for now18:28
dstanekyeah, no reason to build TLS over TLS18:28
gyeenot TLS over TLS18:29
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morgangyee: no need to add this in until it works18:29
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morganSo focus on working before layering added security above and beyond what we rely on today18:29
gyeewell, "works" is a funny definition18:29
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gyeeit would be hard to make it "work" without passing the security review18:30
morganWorks: is usable beyond a proof of concept18:30
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morgangyee: if TLS doesnt pass security review, keystone doesnt pass security review18:30
dstanekgyee: has this been run by the openstack security team?18:31
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gyeedstanek, I think the spec have a security tag on them18:31
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gyeewill need to double check18:31
dstanekgyee: are there attack vectors you know of that go against a TLS only version of this?18:31
morganSo functionally complete. Then we can layer signing over it later. In openstack we rely on TLS for most mitm prevention18:31
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bknudsonif they can subvert the policy file then they can also subvert the signing cert.18:32
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lhcheng_we'd like to have signing as well. But I agree that can be added later.18:32
bknudsonand if you can distribute the signing cert securely then use the same method to distribute the policy file18:32
gyeeyeah, if they can subvert signing cert, then game over18:32
morgangyee: and we're back to relying on TLS18:33
gyeesigning cert is provisioned via CMS at bootstrap18:33
morganSo lets stick with TLS for now18:33
lhcheng_we kinda have a similar system like that, so I assume our security team will ask for a way to verify that the policy file is not tampered.18:33
morganCircle back on this convo during security review and after this is functionally complete18:34
morganThis is still scope creep18:34
gyeesure, that's fine, just want to raise the issue so we are aware of it18:34
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samueldmqgyee, another thing is that you guys would like to have a sort of 'auditing' mechanism ,to know hwat endpoints were updated, right?18:35
morganlhcheng_: cms and Samhain18:35
gyee2) we need an auditing/reporting mechanism to make sure all the nodes are updated and when18:35
morganlhcheng_: that is my recommendation18:35
morgangyee: back to my view: use cms. But on topic - propose something :)18:36
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morganThis sounds like a spec or ML topic18:36
gyeemorgan, sure, probably in M18:36
gyeebasically, dynamically is non-starter without policy distribution18:37
gyeedynamic policy I mean18:37
* dstanek thinks Keystone is becoming much more than a identity service18:37
bknudsonsplit out policy service18:37
bknudsondoesn't need to be in keystone18:37
gyeedstanek, keystone is not even an identity service :)18:37
morganI largely remain unconvinced dynamic policy is worth it.18:37
lhcheng_morgan: sure, but if can keystone can provide it less integration work for me :P18:37
dstanekis policy distribute the policy over HTTP?18:38
gyeebknudson, sure, I have not issue with that :)18:38
morganWe have so many other things to fix that would inprove qol before we try and solve making policy change on demand18:38
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morganSeriously i see dynamic policy worth more once we split service-to-service and used-to-service authz18:39
gyeedstanek, no, HTTPS18:39
henrynashI also think that if we are solving dynamic policy by slurping the files around, then we shouldn’t be in that business.  That is indeed cms.18:39
morganIt also makes dynamic policy a much smaller scope18:39
samueldmqmorgan, so a separate service for policy management/distribution18:39
morgansamueldmq: that is not waht i said at all18:39
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gyeesamueldmq, no, they are talking about a authz service I think18:39
morganAnyway all of this is offtopic here18:40
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dstanekwas that the last topic?18:41
morganlhcheng_: there are ideas i have but just keep in mind that if you can subvert the policy file you can likley subvert the certs.18:41
morganSo back to standard how to manage an IDS.18:41
morgandstanek: yep18:41
morganAnd we're going to call the meeting early18:41
morganGive everyone 20m back today. Yay!18:41
morganThanks everyone.18:41
gyeemore coffee time!18:41
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"18:42
openstackMeeting ended Tue Aug 25 18:42:01 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:42
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openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-08-25-17.59.html18:42
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-08-25-17.59.txt18:42
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-08-25-17.59.log.html18:42
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morgandstanek: can i ask a favor?18:42
david8huThe difference between deploying policy file through CMS vs centralized policy in keystone is that CMS knows about all of nodes.  The challenge is making sure all the nodes picked the updated policy.  If not, why not.18:42
dstanekmorgan: sure18:42
morgandstanek: mind cleaning up the meeting agenda page and putting the bullet in for the next date?18:42
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dstanekmorgan: sure18:43
morgandstanek: thanks!18:43
morganIm going to go get coffee and lunch. :)18:43
dstanekmorgan: my pleasure18:43
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jeblairwow!  keystone finished early?!18:57
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jeblairi think that's happened... twice now.18:58
samueldmqjeblair, yes, we're done :)18:59
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Clintit's the magic of morgan's new nick18:59
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jeblairClint: everything is shorter!18:59
* Clint nods.18:59
jeblairhowdy infra folkses19:00
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morganClint: my nic has always been "entertaining" in that regard.19:00
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jeblair#startmeeting infra19:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Aug 25 19:00:39 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:00
jeblair#link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting19:00
jeblair#link previous meeting http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-08-18-19.01.html19:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:00
jeblair#topic Specs approval: Host Stackalytics Service19:00
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval: Host Stackalytics Service (Meeting topic: infra)"19:00
jeblair#link Host Stackalytics Service spec https://review.openstack.org/#/c/187715/19:00
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jeblairpabelanger: put this on the agenda i believe19:01
anteayahe did19:01
jeblairi'm not entirely clear on where we are with mirantis and stackalytics.org19:01
anteayajeblair: they are all behind it last I heard19:02
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anteayathe patchset prior to the last has jaypipes +119:02
anteayathen it got removed for grammar fixes19:02
jeblaircool, and the spec certainly says they are behind the idea of running it in infra generally at lesat19:02
anteayatime to merge19:02
jeblairanteaya: i think we can mentally carry that over19:02
anteayaI'm for that19:02
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jeblairso yeah, it does seem like this has been discussed and revised appropriately and is ready for voting19:02
jeblairany objections?19:02
fungii'm not convinced default_data.json should move into openstack-infra/project-config but we can fine-tune when it gets to that point19:03
jeblairfungi: oh good point.  that may want to be its own repo (we're collecting repos that are for data files)19:03
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jeblairbut agree, it won't kill us if it is, and we can amend the spec with that improvement19:04
fungion the whole the plan looks sound19:04
jeblair#info Host Stackalytics Service spec voting open until 2015-08-27 19:00 UTC19:05
jeblairpabelanger: w00t!  thanks!19:05
jeblair#topic Schedule Project Renames19:05
pabelangerjeblair: np19:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Schedule Project Renames (Meeting topic: infra)"19:05
jeblairi last wee sept 11 or 12 was tentatively suggested for the pre-summit renames of stuff already in the queue19:06
clarkbthose dates still work fo rme so +119:06
pleia2still works for me19:06
jeblairer, you get the idea ^19:06
clarkbslight preference for friday so I can weekend on the weekend19:06
fungii'm still good with that, so if there are more people behind the idea now that everyone's back from the ops mid-cycle, let's nail it firmly19:07
anteayathat is the ironic mid-cycle which I won't be attending19:07
anteayathose dates are fine with me19:07
jeblairlooks clear from a release mgmt pov19:07
jeblairthose dates are good for me, also slight pref for 11th19:07
clarkbya it should be after the milestone and before freeze crazyness19:07
mordredI can do those days19:08
anteayaoops Im wrong that ironic was in august19:08
mordredno preference19:08
anteayano mid-cycle on those dates19:08
jeblairlets do 11 then, objections?19:08
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jeblairand time -- 2300?19:09
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anteayaare we freezing the list to what is currently there?19:09
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jeblair#agreed next project renames on fri, sept 11 at 2300 utc19:09
anteayaor can folks stuff more in, and if they can can we have a cut off date?19:09
pleia2anteaya: it's still a couple weeks out, I think we can give some time19:09
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anteayacan we have a cut off date?19:10
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jeblairlets do just limit it to big tent projects though19:10
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anteayaI can agree to that19:10
jeblairsince this is still manual, it will take some work19:10
anteayathings in goverance/projects.yaml then?19:10
jeblairi don't want to deal with the stackforge flood without automation19:10
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jeblairanteaya: yeah19:10
fungiyep. moving non-official projects from stackforge to openstack namespace should simply happen all at once. there's no urgency for those19:11
anteayaworks for me as a definition19:11
jeblair#agreed moving official projects only; stackforge move will happen later (with automation)19:11
fungi(with science!)19:11
jeblairwe also need to nail down the stackforge date...19:11
jeblairwhat did we propose?19:12
anteayawas going to ask you19:12
* jeblair digs19:12
clarkbI don't think we proposed oe for stackforge19:12
jeblairoct 17 or nov 719:12
anteayait was a date in october and one in nov19:12
fungiwe proposed two rough timeframes19:12
jeblairis what i put in the email19:12
clarkboh right form the email19:12
jeblairno one expressed a pref19:12
clarkbI was thinking last meeting19:12
anteayanov 7 I will be at pycon.ca19:12
anteayapreference for oct 1719:12
fungii'm better with sooner rather than later, since there were no real objections expressed19:13
anteayathough I may be chrismasing19:13
clarkbya earlier is probably better19:13
clarkbget it done in the quiet before the summit19:13
clarkbthen dont hae to worry about it when recovering from summitting19:13
pleia2I'm traveling pretty much from oct 13th onward (for what feels like forever, since summit)19:13
jeblairsounds good to me19:13
jeblairpleia2: wave to mordred as you fly past each other19:14
fungithat's <2 months though, so we need to create that wiki sign-up page pretty much immediately so that projects can't claim they didn't have enough time to find out and add themselves19:14
* mordred plans waving at pleia219:14
pleia2jeblair: heh, right19:14
jeblairfungi: agreed19:14
anteayafungi: very much so19:14
jeblairso how about i set up the wiki page and send an announcement about oct 17th?19:14
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pleia2sounds good19:14
anteayasounds good to me19:14
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fungiyou typed that faster than i could, so all yours! ;)19:15
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jeblair#agreed move stackforge projects to openstack oct 17th19:15
anteayahow much down time will we need for that one do you think?19:15
jeblair#action jeblair send announcement about project renames sept 1119:15
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anteayathe github changes will take for ever19:15
jeblair#action jeblair send announcement about wiki page and stackforge move19:15
jeblairanteaya: we could probably let the github changes lag behind on that one19:15
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anteayaoh okay19:16
jeblairthey will become eventually consistent19:16
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anteayamight want to include that bit in the announcement19:16
anteayato get infront of the tide hitting the channel19:16
fungiwell, if we want the renames/transfers in github to dtrt, then we likely need to make sure we disable replication to there until we finish that part19:16
jeblairanteaya: yes, though perhaps in a later announcement when we know more about the actual mechanics?19:16
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anteayajeblair: yep, as long as I have something to point to19:17
jeblairfungi: i don't think it'll hurt19:17
anteayadon't care when19:17
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jeblairfungi: some replications will just get rejected if the repos have the wrong names19:17
clarkbfungi: it will just error19:17
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jeblairfungi: but then catch up later, and we can trigger a full run on completion19:17
fungioh, for some reason i thought manage-projects was going to create the "new" repos there19:17
clarkbfungi: oh hrm it will do that19:18
clarkbso it just dependso nwhether or not we need the github redirects19:18
fungiso just trying to remember to account for that19:18
fungibut not a plan we need to hash out in this meeting19:18
anteayaperhaps a meeting agenda item for automated rename planning?19:18
jeblairyeah, i bet we can work out a way :)19:18
mordredfungi: ++19:18
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jeblaircool, moving on then19:19
jeblair#topic Priority Efforts (Migration to Zanata)19:19
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Migration to Zanata) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:19
pleia2so, we're in a great spot, the translators are planning on using Zanata for Liberty translations :)19:19
mordredpleia2: w00t!19:19
fungii've seen much recent traffic on the i18n ml about this19:19
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pleia2I have one last review up to fix our installation process: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/192901/19:20
pleia2then we should be ready to launch our production server at translate.openstack.org19:20
pleia2if we can do that by the end of the week, next week can be spent making sure all our scripts are still working as expected, and do a hand off to the translations folks after labor day19:20
clarkbStevenK also has a handful of changes related to automagically configuring zanata fo rprojects that get translated19:20
clarkbI hvae reviewed the stack would be good if some other cores could get through those19:20
* jeblair does happy dance19:20
fungipleia2: not being familiar with the db schema complexity in zanata, i was somewhat dubious of the "copy all the tables from the dev server" approach19:20
pleia2we also need some details from Carlos about importing the user directory out from the -dev instance so they don't need to set all that up again19:21
fungiis that going to be as simple as it was made to sound?19:21
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pleia2fungi: me too, I kept resisting, they all insist, so I'm leaning on Carlos for a solid plan19:21
pleia2adding coordinators and users is actually a pain for the users, so I sympathize19:21
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pleia2unfortunately I have some unexpected travel next week, so I'm going to put all this into an email to openstack-infra so we can make sure we have a plan19:22
clarkband I am happy to cover for pleia2 again19:22
clarkbas I mostly have a picture of what is going on now19:22
pleia2and I can check in next week if needed19:22
pleia2thanks clarkb!19:22
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SpamapSgreghaynes: ah, the problem is that dnsmasq is binding to eth2.25 and not eth2 for some reason19:23
SpamapSoh doh19:23
SpamapShah.. misconfigured, thats why19:23
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jeblairSpamapS: also mis-channeled :)19:23
pleia2so we've got a little work to do, and only a little bit of time, but I think it's all doable19:23
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jeblairpleia2: cool, zanata reviews to the top of the list then19:23
anteayapleia2: nice work carrying this all through19:23
SpamapSdohhh soo sory19:23
pleia2jeblair: thanks19:23
jeblairanteaya: pleia2 ++19:23
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jeblair#topic Priority Efforts (Downstream Puppet)19:24
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jeblair     httpd module proved to have some races, difficult to fix. We propose to move to puppetlabs-apache instead (pabelanger, yolanda)19:25
yolanda_so that raised these days19:25
yolanda_when moving to httpd, some races are shown19:26
yolanda_there have been some efforts to fix it, either on the httpd module or in the manifests using it19:26
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clarkba couple things here, the races are simple to fix and moving to puppetlabs apache is not simple. I still have a strong preference for sticking with httpd module at least until it is possible to change modules then we can worry aboutswitching19:26
yolanda_and this also raised the topic about why are we using a pretty old fork, and putting efforts on fixing that19:26
nibalizerwe didn't change anything in the module though, so I think these issues existed in the old apache module we were using19:26
clarkbbut it really isn't possible to switch yet19:26
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clarkbnibalizer: they did, I think we just tickled a puppet "bug" by changing the name hwich appears to have changed execution order19:27
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yolanda_clarkb, i agree that we cannot move in short, but have a plan to migrate19:27
crinkleor this was happening before and we didn't notice becaues it's eventually consistent19:27
clarkbcrinkle: or that19:27
jeblairhrm... one second19:27
nibalizerso my thinking is we've upped our tetsing game and that has exposed the issue, not the fork19:28
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jeblairclarkb: can you quickly summarize the recent past and current issues here?  i'm slightly confused and am losing track of which modules are which and what we're doing :)19:28
yolanda_yes, i agree it has always failed19:28
clarkbjeblair: yup19:28
yolanda_it works at second pass19:28
jeblair(i'm hoping this will be beneficial for some other folks here too)19:28
funginibalizer: i didn't find it through testing at all. i found it because i needed to deploy a new servert19:28
yolanda_fungi, i have hit that several times downstream, but just fixed by re-executing puppet19:28
anteayajeblair: yes thank you19:29
clarkbso the issue is that puppetlabs-apache completely removed the ability to ship in a complete working vhost template file. Instead you have to use a bunch of puppet dsl primitives to construct the vhost. This makes certain things like mod_rewrite extremely difficult to use and we use a lot of mod_rewrite19:29
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glauco_I noticed this issue while writing acceptance tests for puppet-gerrit19:29
clarkbour solution to this was keep using the old version of the module that lets us use it the way we want to under a new name so we don't conflict with third party modules that do use upstream apache19:29
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pabelangermy preference would be to fix race issue, so not to block people. In parallel start migration to puppet-apache again, while keeping everybody happy.19:29
yolanda_clarkb, pabelanger had several changes that proved this could be easily solved, either writing a wrapper19:29
clarkbnow that we have renamed the module we find that mod installation doesn't happen before starting the apache service by default which leads to puppet apply races19:29
yolanda_or sending the patch upstream19:29
fungithe basic races we've exposed: if you try to install configuration files into directories created by the apache package, you have to make sure the package is installed before you do that. if you want to activate vhosts which depend on certain default-disabled apache modules, you have to make sure those modules get enabled before the vhost configuration is applied19:30
clarkbyou can easily fix this with require/before in your code that uses the apache module19:30
clarkbfungi: right19:30
yolanda_clarkb, it means fixing all of our manifests19:30
jeblairwe used to call our fork puppet-apache, now we call it puppt-httpd, and both of those have that problem (inheritied from the old thing we forked from), yeah?19:30
yolanda_+ adding some documentation about this usage19:30
yolanda_while we have alternatives that work from scratch19:30
clarkbjeblair: the old puppet-apache wasn't really a fork just an older checkout and yes according ot crinkle and nibalizer the bug likely existed in both places19:30
yolanda_jeblair, yes19:30
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clarkbwe are noticing it more now with testing19:31
jeblairawesome, i think i am caught up, thanks!19:31
nibalizerclarkb: thanks for explaining19:31
fungihowever i wasn't seeing this issue prior to the module rename, so suspect that puppet happened to be getting lucky and arbitrarily picking the working order before and is now picking a non-working order19:31
jeblairfungi: oooh19:31
yolanda_fungi, i saw that downstream when spinning new modules19:32
* anteaya is also actually able to follow along19:32
jeblairwe can't fix this in the module19:32
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jeblairlike, have httpd::module have the correct requirements?19:32
nibalizerjeblair: there are a few ways forward19:32
jeblaircool, let's enumerate19:32
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nibalizerbut no clearly best option19:32
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yolanda_jeblair,httpd_mod is a custom puppet type, so it will need some extra work19:32
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nibalizer1) fix it in the module itself by hacking the type19:33
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nibalizer2) put require => Service['httpd'] around our puppet code where necessary19:33
fungii think the various proposals are: 1. fix it in each module which uses openstackinfra/httpd; 2. fix it in openstackinfra/httpd; 3. get puppetlabs/apache working (perhaps by submitting the support we need for our workflow or perhaps by making a shim/wrapper module)19:33
nibalizeryes sorry19:33
nibalizer3) Create a httpd::mod defined type that wraps httpd_mod and adds the before19:33
yolanda_there was a proposal already written by glauco here https://review.openstack.org/21643619:33
nibalizer4) Pivot to later puppetlabs-apache module19:34
nibalizerI have some opinions on which ones I like the most, I think others do as well19:35
fungii guess nibalizer's 1, 2 and 3 are sub-options of my #219:35
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pabelangerCan we take working code from puppet-apache, back port into puppet-httpd?19:36
nibalizerfungi: no my #2 is your #1,  and my 2 and 3 are sub-options of your #219:36
jeblairregarding nib.4 and fungi.3, wasn't there some resistance upstream to the 'dump a vhost' model?19:36
yolanda_option 1 means hiding a problem on the module, you need to fix all the manifests, and make new manifest using that to work in the same way. I'd expect , when i use a module, that i can rely on the features, without having to know the internals of it19:36
pabelangerthis leave simple migration path to puppet-apache, vs us creating our own custom path19:36
crinklejeblair: I am pretty sure they would accept that patch if it's not already in there19:37
jeblairso does that mean that to use puppetlabs apache, we either try to convince them, or start using the module the way they intend (which may be a great amount of work for us)?19:37
jeblaircrinkle: oh ok19:37
fungianyway, since the numbers are now confusing... the objections to fixing it in each calling module is obviously code duplication. the objections to fixing it in openstackinfra/httpd are mostly that it's throwing good money after bad/reinventing the wheel. the objections to switching to puppetlabs/apache are that we suspect it still doesn't do the things we need19:37
crinklepabelanger mentioned using custom_fragment which might be what we need19:37
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crinklefungi: also that switching to puppetlabs/apache will take a while and we want a fix soon19:38
nibalizerI think this is being brought up as a critical flaw, which I disagree with19:38
jeblairi feel like fixing it in openstackinfra/httpd is throwing a small amount of good money after bad, and outweighs the other two.19:38
clarkbcrinkle: I looked into that back when I was told "just use custom fragment" and I wasn't happy with it19:38
nibalizerthe nature of puppet is needing to establish your before/after19:38
yolanda_jeblair, fungi, even if we use puppetlabs-apahce the way they like, it shouldn't be complex, creating  a wrapper and using some features it offers, pabelanger had a decent sample19:38
clarkbI like treating files as files in puppet19:38
clarkbnibalizer: agreed19:38
crinklewhat about custom_fragment => template('my template')19:38
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clarkbcrinkle: you can't because then you lose all the header stuff19:38
jeblairclarkb, nibalizer: is that an argument for doing before in our leaf puppet modules?19:39
crinkleclarkb: okay19:39
clarkbcrinkle: its very opinionated or was when I looked at it19:39
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clarkbjeblair: yes19:39
nibalizerjeblair: yes19:39
fungiright, we want it to be able to replace the entire vhost config with a template and not make decisions for us19:39
nibalizermost puppet resources don't automagically position themselves in the graph, I'm not sure why we're so suprised this doesn't19:39
yolanda_here, that's pabelanger sample https://review.openstack.org/#/c/216747/19:39
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pabelangerHonestly, I still don't fully understand what puppet-httpd provides that puppet-apache doesn't do.  I _think_ the custom_fragment is what people are looking for but it would be good to list some place what people actually want.  I think some people want a blank vhost.conf file that apache will load out side of puppet control?19:39
yolanda_uses custom_fragment + template19:39
jesusaurusi think that being explicit and adding befores where they are needed is the puppet way of doing things19:39
clarkbthe red in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/216747/2/modules/openstack_project/templates/grafana.vhost.erb is the problem19:40
clarkbyolanda_: ^19:40
crinklepabelanger: i think clarkb just explained why custom_fragment is insufficient19:40
jeblairclarkb, nibalizer: in general i agree... i guess it boils down to specifics; if we use mod_rewrite in our vhost, we need to specify that, but i think that if we say we use mod rewrite in puppet, then the httpd puppet module should know to install httpd first.19:40
yolanda_jeblair ++19:40
mordredjeblair: ++19:40
clarkbthats fair19:40
fungijeblair: well, the problem that arises is that it currently tries to apply the vhost configuration before it has enabled mod_rewrite19:41
fungiso not specifically a race around the httpd service19:41
jeblairfungi: that sounds like a module bug to me; i think all mod enablement should happen before writing vhost config19:41
yolanda_fungi, jeblair, that is fixed in the puppelabs-apache , adding a notify apache::service, that restarts on each vhost or mod change19:41
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jeblairyolanda_: yeah, it just sounds like a simple fix to our module to clear these errors, so why not do that first?19:42
fungibut we have other unrelated ordering issues too, such as we were previously relying on the apache2 package to create /etc/apache2 and its subdirectories, but didn't require that package or the module before trying to stick files into them19:42
nibalizerjeblair: that doesn't really jive with most of puppet19:42
nibalizerconsider that if you would like a user and an ssh key you do have to explicitly set the ordering there19:42
yolanda_jeblair, that's what glauco tried on his patch, but it's a fix on ruby19:42
jeblairnibalizer: that's unfortunate, because that's how you admin apache19:42
yolanda_our httpd_mod is a custom puppet type, not a defined type19:43
yolanda_so people were not trusting it19:43
clarkbyolanda_: right so my suggestion ws use a defined type19:43
nibalizerjeblair: puppet allows you to do this of course, but the idea is to put the ordering in control of the operator, and not auto-figure-it-out19:43
fungiso some of my concern is that we have multiple bugs exposed here, and people are focusing on one or another and each may need to be solved in different ways or even different places19:43
yolanda_clarkb yes, and that's when conversation raised about putting efforts there, or moving to apache19:43
clarkbI explained why the other implementation is likely buggy but not one seems to understand the puppet internals enough to confirm (which is a good reason not to do it on its own)19:43
nibalizereverywhere in infra, we tend to want puppet to do less, and we'll tell it what to do, so I'm somewhat suprised we want puppet to be clever here19:43
pabelangerfungi: !19:43
crinkleI'm also pretty sure glauco_'s patch doesn't work, based on the result of the beaker test19:43
yolanda_we are also hitting some problems on our fork, so we should consider if the effort is needed19:44
jeblairnibalizer: there's never a reason to enable a module _after_ restarting a configuration with a new vhost19:44
glauco_crinkle: it worked fine with ubuntu trusty. Not sure why it failed for centos.19:44
jeblairnibalizer: that's something that the module should handle for you, because it is a very well understond ordering of operations that has only one correct answer19:44
nibalizerjeblair: sure19:45
jeblairnibalizer: i agree, anytime it is unclear, users should be allowed to express options19:45
jeblairi think we may need to go to the ml on this19:45
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nibalizerthere are currently two patches proposed to httpd to enable that functionality19:45
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jeblairnibalizer: can you send a summary email to the list with options, and we can try to further refine?19:45
fungiwell, more to the point, configuration (vhosts or otherwise) and enabling modules should be done and any service restarts deferred until that has all completed19:45
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jeblair#action nibalizer send summary email of puppet apache issues to infra list19:46
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jeblair(i picked nibalizer since he enumerated the options so well earlier :)19:46
anteayanibalizer: nice enumeration19:46
jeblairthanks all, hopefully this was a useful start19:47
jeblair#topic Summit space (jeblair)19:47
*** openstack changes topic to "Summit space (jeblair) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:47
anteayagoodness that time again?19:47
jeblairttx would like to know like right now what we need in terms of summit space19:47
fungiall of it19:47
anteayaa table on a deck19:47
anteayawith umbrellas19:47
jeblairi know dhellmann has at least one session he wants to propose19:47
anteayaand baby geese19:48
jeblairand devananda suggested maybe we could share a meetup space and do some cross-pollination with ironic/bifrost since we're infra-cloudy19:48
pleia2I think our working group times were valuable (particularly for me working with newcomers), so space for that again would be nice19:48
jeblairanyone else have a feeling for what we should request?19:48
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jeblairpleia2: ack19:48
fungican you summarize the format/options this time around? is it fishbowls and boardrooms again, or something new this time?19:48
anteayaasselin_: do you need a space for openstackci this time?19:48
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pleia2I'll likely work with translator sessions again, no no needs on the infra side19:49
jeblair* Fishbowl slots (Wed-Thu)19:49
jeblair* Workroom slots (Tue-Thu)19:49
jeblair* Contributors meetup (Fri)19:49
nibalizera puppety workroom slot would be great19:49
jeblair- We have about twice as many workrooms than we have fishbowls19:49
jeblair- We have less rooms compared to Vancouver19:49
jeblair- Rooms (especially workrooms) are generally smaller19:49
jeblair- We have a lot more teams asking for space, thanks to the Big Tent19:49
asselin_anteaya, I was hoping to talk about common-ci. Not sure if my official presentation got accepted or not. If not, then yes it would be nice to do that still.19:49
jeblairso that's nice: it sounds like we like workrooms and we're workroom heavy19:50
anteayacan we pencil in a time for asselin_ and friends?19:50
jeblairanteaya: let's just throw out ideas here, and i'll collect them and try to summarize space needs generally19:50
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fungiokay, so workrooms will probably need their topics better scoped this time. we had a lot of random people glom onto our workgroup sessions in vancouver which tended to make them less productive19:50
anteayavery good19:50
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jeblairi think we need to estimate first, then maybe get detailed later19:50
clarkbspace to hack on zuulv3 details may be useful19:51
anteayaother than supporting asselin_'s efforts there isn't anything I personally am working on that needs a space19:51
pabelangerlikely remote this time, so fat pipe to asterisk server works for me :)19:51
jeblairfungi: yah, and related to what pleia2 said, we may want to try to focus something on newcomers19:51
ttxI liked the "get something done in 40 min" concept19:51
ttxalthough unsuccessful19:51
fungiooh, right. infra 101 tarpit/honeypot ;)19:51
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jeblairttx: we got it done the next week and it is now awesome :)19:51
anteayaha ha ha19:52
anteayainfra 101 would be great to get reps from each project to make sure they understand how to set up tests19:52
anteayaadn read logs19:52
anteayaat least someone from each project19:52
fungiyeah, irc meeting management in code review was a success, so a great example we can try to match for scoping the next round of ideas19:53
jeblairanteaya: in that case, should probably be a x-project session19:53
anteayaI can get behind that19:53
jeblairokay, let me know if you have other ideas19:53
jeblair#topic Request to use cloud server for developer.rackspace.com rather than Cloud Sites (annegentle)19:53
*** openstack changes topic to "Request to use cloud server for developer.rackspace.com rather than Cloud Sites (annegentle) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:53
anteayaas long as people leave with something useful19:53
jeblairannegentle: around?19:53
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fungii assume the idea here is moving the developer.openstack.org site to a vhost on static.openstack.org (or to a separate server completely)19:54
fungibut having the reasons explained would be great19:54
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clarkbI know we wanted to swift host these things and we probably can with with we know about swift now19:55
jeblairclarkb: actually we did not want that19:55
clarkbsince we can generate indexes for the entire paths of docs (but we don't for logs and that is the remaining work item there)19:55
clarkbjeblair: oh?19:55
fungialso, there are challenges around the scp publisher plugin... its support for layout is not identical to what you can do with the ftp publisher19:55
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jeblairclarkb: http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/doc-publishing.html is pending completion of swift logs19:55
jeblairclarkb: but we actually can't use swift for serving things.19:56
jeblairfungi: yeah19:56
clarkbjeblair: right apache would proxy like with the logs19:56
jeblairso we _can_ move them, but it's not clear to me that it would be better than ftp at this point19:56
clarkbjeblair: I am saying that we can do that now the work required for docs should be complete19:56
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jeblairclarkb: ok, but that's still not the plan we wrote :)19:56
jeblairclarkb: feel free to amend :)19:56
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clarkbI must be misremembering then will reread19:56
fungiyeah, the current spec is filesystems (maybe afs)19:57
jeblairclarkb: it's complicated, fortunately, at least the spec captures all the reqs19:57
fungiand rsync if memory serves19:57
jeblairfungi: could pivot to afs, but afs isn't in the current plan either; basically rsync.19:57
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clarkbdid we change it? I swear it was swift based when it started19:57
jeblairclarkb: it hasn't changed in a while :(19:58
fungiswift is a middle-man19:58
fungiso while the spec is "docs publishing via swift" it's not serving them from the copies in swift19:58
jeblairannegentle: maybe post to the infra list?  we'd love to help but don't know the problem.  :)19:58
jeblair#topic Open discussion19:58
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)"19:58
pabelangerHaha, 1 min19:59
pabelangergoing to point my stuff into -infra19:59
jeblairuse wisely19:59
pleia2elections are coming up and I can't commit to help tristanC running them this time around, don't need to have special powers (fungi pulls data for us), just need to pay attention and be responsive about election things, happy to answer questions abut it but it's coming up soon19:59
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pleia2election schedule is on the release schedule: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Liberty_Release_Schedule19:59
SpamapSo/ just saying infra-cloud is ho-humming along, still fighting hardware issues but getting closer at least. :)19:59
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jeblairSpamapS: woot!20:00
jeblairthanks all!20:00
fungipleia2: maybe a cfh out to the -dev ml is warranted20:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Aug 25 20:00:11 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-08-25-19.00.html20:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-08-25-19.00.txt20:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-08-25-19.00.log.html20:00
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ttxAlright... Anyone here for the TC meeting ?20:00
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* edleafe lurks as usual20:00
dhellmanndevananda: o/20:00
dhellmanner, just o/20:00
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ttxrussellb, jgriffith, annegentle, lifeless, mordred, flaper87, jeblair, jaypipes: around ?20:00
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* geoffarnold lurking20:01
ttx#startmeeting tc20:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Aug 25 20:01:16 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"20:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'20:01
* Rockyg lurking, too20:01
russellbjaypipes swimming again20:01
jaypipesrussellb: :)20:01
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ttxA pretty busy agenda for today:20:01
edleaferussellb: I see it more as a ball and chain20:01
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee20:01
ttx#topic Adding Monasca to OpenStack20:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Adding Monasca to OpenStack (Meeting topic: tc)"20:02
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/21318320:02
ttxI was initially put off by the fact the commit message doesn't mention Java at all, but apparently they are in the middle of a full transition to Python (which I didn't know about)20:02
ttxI'm still a bit uncomfortable with the fact that both codebases (the legacy Java one and the Python one) coexist under the same repository20:02
ttxIt feels like they could use separate repositories or branches so that everything in the repository master branch is properly gated20:02
ttxbut I can certainly live with that20:02
lifelessttx: hi, here-ish, we have electricians and all sorts happpening right this second20:02
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ttxMy other concern was with terse commit messages referencing a private JIRA (inside HP I suspect)20:03
ttxDeklan answered that "from now on, we will be strictly adhering to the OpenStack Commit message standards"20:03
ttxSo I think this is, at the very minimum, going in the right direction20:03
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ttxdhellmann recently raised videoconferencing being used20:03
dhellmannttx: I had a concern about where the weekly meetings are being held, which I noticed today when re-reading the proposal and looking at their launchpad page20:03
ttxwhich kind of prevents logging20:03
mordreddhellmann: can you summarize?20:04
sdagueoh, I guess I missed that one20:04
mordredme too20:04
dhellmannmordred: they're using webex now (vidyo before)20:04
rhochmuthwe can switch to IRC, I responded to Doug's questions20:04
mordredrhochmuth: oh neat! thanks20:04
dhellmannwe gave the trove team a hard time over that before20:04
annegentlettx: I think the Java concerns are a great discussion to have and I tend to agree with sdague's commentary20:04
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dhellmannrhochmuth: yes, I think that would be a requirement for my +120:04
mordredwe've given several teams a hard time about that - so I do think we need to be fair20:04
rhochmuthok, consider it done!!!20:04
annegentleAnd then it's interesting, apparently the video-based chat is preferred over IRC by the team itself20:05
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rhochmuthwill switch to IRC immediately20:05
ttxannegentle: I don't. But then Monasca isn't really a problem if they move to Python anyway20:05
* mordred does not have a problem with the java20:05
mordredjust for the record20:05
annegentlefor the docs team, we have some specialty teams that prefer video and real-time over IRC20:05
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annegentlemordred: me neither honestly20:05
clarkbannegentle: IRC is real time20:05
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jeblairyeah, i think irc is a requirement, and python is not, actually.  :)20:06
ttxI'm against fragmentation, for the reason I indicated on the review. That includes gratuitously adding a language or a conference media20:06
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mordredjeblair: ++20:06
sdagueso, I think we should make the java conversation a separate one20:06
ttxI think we should20:06
markmcclainsdague: ++20:06
jeblairsdague: it at least sounds like it's moot20:06
sdaguejeblair: sure20:06
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annegentleclarkb: yes, but I'd like to continue to request a voice/video meeting capability that is acceptable20:06
jeblairthis is a real transition, right?  moving from java to python and discontinuing java?20:06
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annegentlejeblair: how would we know? :)20:07
ttxjeblair: yes20:07
jeblairi ask because the whole "two languages one repo" thing makes it seem like a grey area?20:07
* maishsk is lurking in the background20:07
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russellbannegentle: we've had a voice one for a long time.  video is more difficult.20:07
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annegentlerussellb: ok, cool20:08
mordredrhochmuth: can you speak to jeblair's question above?20:08
ttxJust as a sidenote, I'm extremely concerned about common culture and the fact that openstack doesn't mean anything anymore. I think that's the biggest risk our community faces over the coming two years. So I'll oppose convenience choices that fragment our community even further.20:08
rhochmuthyes, the transition is real!20:08
anteayattx: ++20:08
* jaypipes primarily concerned about the huge overlap between Monasca's REST API and the OpenStack Telemetry API (as currently implemented by Ceilometer)20:09
annegentlettx: thanks for stating that. I have real concerns about "can it be debugged, documented, and quality tested in similar ways"20:09
jeblairrhochmuth: oh, yes i see your comment from 08-1820:09
rhochmuthnot sure what else to say, everyone in the community wants to do this20:09
rhochmuthin the monasca community that is20:09
dhellmannjaypipes: that's what we get when we invite competition, no?20:09
jaypipesdhellmann: no.20:09
ttxbut Monasca seems to at least aim at not creating problems20:09
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jeblairrhochmuth: have a timeline for full java deprecation?20:09
mordredjaypipes: doesn't monasca also integrate with ceilometer?20:09
jeblair(mostly just out of curiosity)20:09
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sdaguejaypipes: well, I thought that was one of the areas we specifically were requesting competition, correct?20:09
mordred(at least as I understand it?)20:09
mordredor at least optionally integrate20:09
rhochmuthi don't have an exact date. We talked about doing this.20:10
ttxMy main concern is that we have to take a number of promises at face value (no more JIRA references, no more videoconferencing, no more Java). So the question ebcomes, is it ready to be approved now, or should we wait for more progress20:10
jaypipesdhellmann: I have always consistently said we should not have a competition for APIs. We should have competition for differing implementations of a single OpenStack API for XXXX20:10
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anteayawe don't have great follow up for promises not kept20:10
dhellmannjaypipes: that would require the competing teams to agree on the api, though20:10
sdaguejaypipes: so, that seems very overly idealistic. The API isn't devoid of the implementation. And the API drives the implementation20:10
jaypipesdhellmann: yes, precisely.20:10
dhellmannttx: I would be comfortable waiting a bit, I'm not sure there's a hurry20:10
mordredjaypipes: I do not believe we have a mechanism for specifying an API outside of an implementation20:11
jaypipessdague: hugely disagree on that.20:11
ttxdhellmann: there is a hurry if Monasca wants design summit space.20:11
mordredjaypipes: and I believe we've always avoided being an API standards body20:11
annegentlesdague: I think you're getting at the "docs, tests, builds, debugging" layer with the "A working OpenStack is not just the python glue layer, it's the whole thing."20:11
mordredjaypipes: and the only way that two different projects can implement the same API is if we had an API definition that lived apart from the implementation20:11
mordredwhich we have literally nowhere20:11
jaypipesmordred: we should not have 2 OpenStack Telemetry APIs.20:11
ttxthere is no way unofficial projects will get space in Tokyo. We are strugfgling with what we have already20:11
SpamapSIf you don't push toward agreeing API's, you end up with the Neutron effect: "This is the BEST way" without a path from the other way and users forked.20:11
sdaguealso, who decides that20:11
jgriffithjaypipes: I have to say I agree with others that while awesome that doesn't seem very realistic.20:11
markmcclainttx: can we wait and grant design summit space?20:11
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dhellmannttx: I'm not inclined to hurry for that reason.20:11
annegentlettx: is there no "related projects" spaces this time around?20:11
mordredjaypipes: I do not think that monasca is a telemetry api20:11
mordredjaypipes: I believe it is a monitoring API20:12
ddieterlyi think we can take the JIRA references problem off the table. i was responsible for that mistake and was severely castigated for it by Roland.20:12
ttxannegentle: it's Japan. There is no space20:12
ttxonly people20:12
jaypipesmordred: https://github.com/stackforge/monasca-api/blob/master/docs/monasca-api-spec.md would say otherwise.20:12
annegentlettx: with white gloves on to push you into train cars though! :)20:12
mordredttx: :)20:12
maishskttx: :)20:12
anteayattx: ha ha ha20:12
jeblairannegentle: omg are they going to be at the summit rooms?!20:12
ttxin every workroom, yes20:12
sdaguebecause I think one of the issues we had in the whole telemetry space is we tried to make a bunch of different teams work together that weren't really aligned, and that didn't work out so well20:12
gordcmordred: as ceilometer dev, we're actually not sure about what level of integration exists... we're sort of in the dark on how ceilo/monasca integrates... there has been mentions about it for a while but we've never been asked.20:13
dhellmannsdague: ++20:13
gordcwe did speak about joint summit sessions at last meeting though.20:13
sdagueso I feel like saying "no, you all have to agree on API" puts us right back into a non working place20:13
mordredjaypipes: k. but is the api short-name/id in keystone "telemetry" ?20:13
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jaypipesmordred: not sure :)20:13
mordredif it is - I will be much more inclined to agree with you :)20:14
annegentlegordc: great input, thanks20:14
dhellmannsdague: right, I would expect part of a different implementation to include API changes20:14
sdaguedhellmann: yeh, exactly20:14
edleafejaypipes: agree that a single API is ideal, but there is no body capable of declaring one20:14
edleafejaypipes: you'll then need everyone to agree on their own20:14
sdagueespecially because this an area where it's not a solved space, and there is still a bunch of exploration going on20:14
jaypipesedleafe: if we don't push competing implementations to agree on an API, we will end up with mass confusion and not serve our users, IMHO.20:15
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edleafejaypipes: if a product differs from existing APIs without providing at least as much new benefit, it will die on its own20:15
sdaguesee the various internal rewrites of key things in ceilometer to explore more efficient ways of handling this, which is all good, but I can't even imagine the drag placed on that if they also needed to coordinate with other metrics teams on shared API20:15
ttxyeah, not sure we can require convergent APIs for differ ent projects addressing kind of the same space20:16
jgriffithedleafe: that may be wishful thinking, different folks will have their reasons for aligning with one over another20:16
sdaguejaypipes: we did that before in this space, and we ended up with deadlock and a software stack that didn't serve our users well. I think all the software stacks in this space, ceilometer included, got much better once the TC let them all try their own things.20:16
dhellmannrhochmuth: what's the story with backend databases these days? there is an open source database available, right?20:16
ttxso the options are approve it now or delay it to give them a chance to further align to openstack way first20:17
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sdaguettx: what's the deadline for space at the summit?20:17
rhochmuthcorrect. influxdb is supported and we are in the process of adding cassandra20:17
dhellmannrhochmuth: ok, great, thanks20:17
jaypipeson another unrelated note, I do have some concern that Monasca is a monolithic things trying to do too much (monitoring, metric storage, alarming, events), which is the same problem domain that Ceilometer finds itself in, no?20:17
* dhellmann can never remember the name of influxdb20:17
annegentleI'd still like to understand if we believe a Java or Go or Erlang project can be documented and tested with self-service adequately?20:17
ttxsdague: a couple more weeks20:17
edleafeif there ever is a definition of a telemetry API that we can point to, then sure, let's enforce it.20:17
jeblairi think i'm generally comfortable with the promises made and could +1 now.20:18
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sdaguettx: personally, I'd like to revisit as late as we can. I'm happy to delay a couple of weeks and have the team prove they are implementing the new changes.20:18
jeblairannegentle: i think we want to kick that can down the road since we don't have to deal with it for this one.  :)20:18
dhellmannsdague: ++20:18
sdagueI'm ok going now as well20:18
annegentleFor example, I believe the REST API docs can be standardized without concern for language. However RST/Sphinx docs are pretty Python-specific, do we then also enable Java-based doc tools?20:18
ttxsdague: we can certainly wait two weeks20:18
annegentlejeblair: waahh :)20:18
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ttxsdague: I can poll them on their needs should they be accepted and factor it20:19
sdaguettx: ok, so how about we do that. Table for two weeks20:19
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gordcjaypipes: specifically re: ceilometer, yes, a lot (too much) is covered. we started branching out projects this cycle (see: alarming split) also to make collaboration easier.20:19
ttxsdague: works for me20:19
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ttxwe don't have the required votes in anyway20:19
dhellmannrhochmuth: you should go ahead and add the team meeting to eavesdrop.openstack.org20:19
sdaguerhochmuth: and you have specific feedback of what process changes are expected during that time20:20
rhochmuthok, will do20:20
ttx#agreed Table Monasca for two weeks so that they can further align with the OpenStack way20:20
jaypipesgordc: yeah, precisely my point that ceilometer reached some self-awareness that it was tackling too much. has monasca reached a similar awareness is my question :)20:20
ttxAlso if you have different objections (liek jaypipes has) it's more than time to file them on the review20:20
jaypipesttx: yes, I will do so.20:21
annegentlegot it20:21
ttx#topic Moving the RefStack project from openstack-infra to Big Tent.20:21
*** openstack changes topic to "Moving the RefStack project from openstack-infra to Big Tent. (Meeting topic: tc)"20:21
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/21393020:21
ttxSo... refstack was recently added to the infra project (with https://review.openstack.org/#/c/205609/)20:21
ttxOn that review I questioned why that would not be an Interoperability project team instead, but people were apparently happy with it being under Infra20:21
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ttxNow they changed their minds and prefer a project team instead, the rationale for the change of mind is not perfectly clear to me20:22
ttxkind of a good thing that the repo wasn't renamed to openstack-infra/refstack yet :)20:22
RockygUh, I think someone told them they should move?20:22
ttxI'm generally fine with it -- My only concern with a "RefStack" project team is that it's very narrow (I would prefer an "Interoperability" team with the wider scope of providing tooling for interoperability efforts)20:22
ttxRockyg: "someone" ?20:22
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mordredso ... I have two competing thoughts in my brain on this one20:22
dhellmanndoes this group of people want to take on the broader mission?20:22
jeblairyep, and in fact, i think i also suggested that while i'd be happy either way, i also thought that ideally, it should be its own official openstack project.  :)20:22
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jeblairbut they weren't ready for that.20:22
ttx(But then if this team is solely focused on the Interoperability Test Report I guess that works)20:23
RockygYeah.  Didn't get the name.  Might have been ttx's comment that triggered the whole thing?20:23
ttxlate-action trigger20:23
mordredwhich is that I'm ultimately fine either way - but I think there is both the tool and a long-lived service to collect the data20:23
jeblairi also am not entirely clear on where the change of heart originated20:23
RockygSo, I think there is desire for the interop, but they are focused first on just getting the defcore stuff solid20:23
ttxOK anyway... the question is now whether the team is specific to refstack-the-tool or to interoperability-tools in general20:24
mordredand if infra is going to run the long-lived tool, I'd love for the engineering of that data collection tool to at least be somewhat done in collaboration with infra20:24
russellbcan always rename, update scope, or whatever if it makes sense later20:24
RockygI suggested that they can do POC on defcore and sit with that until they are ready to expand to more interop20:24
mordredthat does not mean it needs to be in the infra project20:24
jeblairand also, for the record, if the foundation staff comes to consensus on something like this, maybe we could start talking to related ptls earlier rather than later?20:24
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jeblaircause i mean, i learned about this yesterday20:24
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jeblairat any rate, i talked to catherine yesterday20:25
hogepodgettx there was desire for better tooling for testing at ops mid-cycle20:25
hogepodgettx there are plans to move it beyond defore. Allowing non-defcore schema for interop for example.20:25
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RockygI think the thing confusing placement is the  data storage requirement20:25
RockygThe data is foundation data for defcore, but the rest.....20:25
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ttxhogepodge: so you think it majkes more sense as "Refstack" team or as "Interop" team ?20:26
jeblairthe operation of refstack.o.o falls squarely within infra's mission statement, and we will be happy to continue to manage the operation of the service and the deployment tools.  even the data management policies.20:26
jeblairand catherine agrees with that.20:26
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RockygSo, as other projects, Refstack is the project name, interop is the function/area20:26
sdagueright, so shouldn't it then be an interop project, with an interop PTL20:27
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jeblaircatherine's concern with 'interop' is that she doesn't want to barge in on defcore's area20:27
hogepodgettx: right now it's just the refstack tool. I could see it expanding, especially if there's buy in from other contributors20:27
sdagueand refstack is just a piece of that20:27
ttxRockyg: ok, I guess we can always expand it20:27
ttxif needed20:27
jeblairshe sees defcore as owning "interop" and refstack as interpreting and executing on that.20:27
sdaguejeblair: ok, I guess I'm confused, I thought refstack was tooling to prove defcore20:27
jeblairi agree with here there.20:27
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jeblairsdague: ^ that help?20:27
hogepodgedefcore is a board committee with a narrow focus: the guideline for what an interop openstack deployment is, as defined by tests and code20:27
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sdaguejeblair: sure, I don't understand how that makes it different than QA and Tempest20:28
ttxlooks like it's refstack only for the time being, so I +1ed it20:28
sdaguefor a while we only had one tool, now we have more than one, but the mission was still the abstract one20:28
hogepodgesdague: it's been adopted as the tool to collect defcore results, but we would be doing ourself a disservice if it was only for that.20:28
jeblairsdague: lack of bod involvement? :)20:28
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ttxStill missing quite a few votes20:28
sdaguehogepodge: so is it a QA tool then?20:29
RockygI'd like to get Catherine's take on this whole thing.  Can we table until next week and get Catherine here?20:29
hogepodgepart of this came up to as a delayed reponse to -1 infra votes on making it an infra project, so we're exploring the possibilities here20:29
mordredsdague: no, I thnk it isn't20:29
mordredsdague: I think refstack has a different audience - tempest is a tool for developers20:29
jeblairi think refstack is part of openstack20:29
hogepodgesdague: it's built on QA, and we've worked closely with them20:29
mordredrefstack is a tool to vet deployments against an interop definition20:30
sdaguemordred: sure20:30
jeblairwhich is why i think it being its own openstack project/program is a good thing20:30
mordredjeblair: ++20:30
sdagueI guess I see 3 things: Infra, Interop, QA20:30
sdagueand the current conversation is that refstack is a 4th thing20:30
sdaguewhich, I guess if we need it to be so, that's fine20:30
ttxrefstack is a specific tool and the refstack team has a narrow mission. I'm fine with that20:30
mordredI think refstack is the technical arm of interop20:30
jeblairmordred: ya20:31
sdagueso, then it would be the Interop program20:31
hogepodgerefstack is looking at adding support for out of tree tests, and reporting on them20:31
mordredI think that's what they're saying20:31
mordredwith a code name of "refstack"20:31
RockygSo, interop program, but refstack project20:31
Rockygmordred, ++20:31
jeblairinterop is more than tech20:31
jeblairin a way unlike qa20:31
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ttx(sidenote: we don't have programs anymore)20:32
dhellmannsdague: I agree, but I'm also ok with not pushing the point on team scope right now if this set of people isn't looking beyond refstack itself at other interop tools20:32
jeblairthere's policy/trademarks/political things involved20:32
ttx(we have project teams and deliverables)20:32
hogepodgeit would be nice to pull in efforts from the tailgage team to be part of interop effort, since they have similar interests20:32
ttxI'm fine with it starting as Refstack and expanding if need be to "Interop tools"20:32
dhellmannhogepodge: if those teams want to work together, it would be good to set that up early20:32
jeblairdhellmann: i can definitely speak for catherine that she wants to focus purely on driving refstack to implement the technical goals of interoperability set by defocer20:32
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ttxI prefer defocer20:33
annegentleis that French?:)20:33
mordredttx: ++20:33
sdagueok, I guess lets just do the narrow thing and move on then :)20:33
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* Rockyg kinda likes defocer20:33
dhellmannjeblair: it seems wise to limit scope for the team mission, then, if that's what they're actually focused on20:33
jeblairhogepodge: tailgge didn't come up in my convo with catherine20:33
ttxsdague: yes20:33
jeblairbut like i said, i'm late to this :)20:33
ttxdhellmann: yes20:33
hogepodgejeblair: I've been working more with them. Catherine is very much focused on Refstack server/client as a toolchain.20:34
ttxThey signed up to do refstack at this point. Not all interop tools or other interop tools20:34
sdaguetailgate is a whole other can of worms...20:34
dhellmannnone of this is set in stone20:34
ttxso the team should be refstack.20:34
ttxfor the time being20:34
annegentleseems like it20:34
ttxso please pile up approvals :)20:34
ttxone more20:34
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ttxok, let's get back to this later and see20:35
ttx#topic Temporarily add I18n ATCs20:35
*** openstack changes topic to "Temporarily add I18n ATCs (Meeting topic: tc)"20:35
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/21398920:35
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ttxWe still require the TC to vote on extra-ATCs, and this one was short of a couple votes20:35
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ttxI like that the translations team came up with a reasonable way to measure "contribution" there20:36
ttxThat will be useful when we run elections for the I18N PTL20:36
ttxok, enough votes now, approvinug unless someone screams now20:36
ttx#topic Add constraints details to project testing interface20:37
*** openstack changes topic to "Add constraints details to project testing interface (Meeting topic: tc)"20:37
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/21539920:37
ttxThis is a change to the project testing interface, introducing constrained unit tests20:37
ttxSounds like a good incremental change to me. Comments ? Objections ?20:37
dhellmannit's not entirely clear to me why we wouldn't want this to be the default, but i guess that's ok20:37
sdagueseems fine, I guess I wonder if there is a reason this isn't the default behavior20:37
ttx(has enough votes to pass, so I'll approve unless someone screams now20:37
jeblairi was wondering whether this should eventually be required?20:38
ttxdhellmann: that's why I said "good incremental change", was thinking the same20:38
jeblairit looks like it's all optional now20:38
jeblairi may be saying similar things20:38
jeblairas dhellmann, sdague,  and ttx :)20:38
ttxoh, had a question. maybe it shouold be made mandatory ?20:38
dhellmannjeblair: if it's optional, and a team doesn't do it, the only jobs broken will be theirs, afact20:38
fungilifeless: ^? (if electricians are leaving you alone for a moment)20:38
fungii get the impression we would want this to become the default in time20:38
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jeblairfungi: that wfm20:39
dhellmannI suppose technically if we make it the required default now, no projects would be in compliance.20:39
ttxanyway, that doesn't make the change less valid. Can always switch to mandatory in a subsequent patch20:39
ttxso I'll approve now20:39
jeblairyup, just would like to know the future20:39
Rockygmake it mandatory for Mitaka20:39
ttxI think the future is in "mandatory"20:39
ttxok approved20:40
ttx#topic Add election repository to tc-repos20:40
*** openstack changes topic to "Add election repository to tc-repos (Meeting topic: tc)"20:40
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/21380620:40
ttxThat's a TC-owned repo so we need to vote on its addition, but that should be afst20:40
ttxor fast20:40
ttxIt will be used to contain election data. Not sure if anyone has questions20:40
ttxA couple more +2s wouldn't hurt there20:40
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* dhellmann votes again20:40
lifelessfungi: long term maybe, bu tneed to ramp up adoption first. -> back to electricians20:41
ttxok, we ahve enough, will approve now unless someone screams20:41
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fungilifeless: thanks, that's what it seems like we all ended up assuming anyway20:41
ttx#topic Introduce assert:follows-standard-deprecation tag20:41
*** openstack changes topic to "Introduce assert:follows-standard-deprecation tag (Meeting topic: tc)"20:41
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ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/20746720:41
ttxLike we decided last week, I removed the "never deprecate anything" assertion from the proposal20:42
ttxand merged Zane's config option deprecation assertion into this 'I follow standard deprecation rules' single tag20:42
annegentlettx: good good20:42
ttxI'm happy answering questions you may have, otherwise please add approvals to the review so we can move on20:42
ttxI'll approve if it ever passes 7 yes20:42
ttxcpallares: around?20:42
ttx#topic Present CoC rework (cpallares)20:43
*** openstack changes topic to "Present CoC rework (cpallares) (Meeting topic: tc)"20:43
cpallareshello all o/20:43
cpallaresI'm here to ask for direction and help in expanding OpenStack's community code of conduct. We are hoping to expand it as part of the diversity work group, as we are trying to make the OpenStack community more welcoming towards people of all races, genders, cultures, religions, ages, etc.20:43
ttxflaper87 added you on the agenda last week so that you can present the CoC work20:43
annegentlewelcome cpallares20:43
cpallaresttx: thanks!20:43
cpallaresOur current code of conduct https://www.openstack.org/legal/community-code-of-conduct/20:43
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cpallaresSo our current code of conduct is missing a couple of things. Ideally a code of conduct should have a place to easily report violations, because that's the only way to enforce it, otherwise it's like it doesn't exist. It should have either an email or a form to report violations.20:44
cpallaresWe need to create some sort of committee who is dedicated to handling incidents, because our current code of conduct states that violators will be accountable to the board of directors. I'm not sure if there's ever been reported violations to the code of conduct, but I doubt the board of directors spend a lot of time discussing or reprimanding small violations within the OpenStack community.20:44
jeblaircpallares: good point; i think we have previously reported violations to the foundation community folks20:44
cpallaresjeblair: Oh awesome, that's good to hear.20:44
annegentleSo my original feedback to an earlier CoC is that I would rather report to a person than a form.20:44
mordredcpallares: good. I was just about to say "a method of ajudication" is also important20:44
cpallaresannegentle: That would be better.20:45
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annegentleI would want to know who exactly knows what I am telling them.20:45
sdagueannegentle: I think that's a very good point20:45
cpallaresannegentle: That's the other thing20:45
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cpallaresIt should have a defined and documented complaint handling process, so each violation case is handled the same way and there is transparency on how reporting a violation works. Of course, all reports would be kept confidential.20:45
fungiyes, being able to report issues in confidence is important20:45
cpallaresThe code of conduct should also include how reprimands will work and who will decide them (this is where the code of conduct committee would come in). And reprimands be things like warnings, a request for a public or private apology, a public statement about an incident, etc.20:45
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ttxjeblair: worth noting that we don't have a single "community manager" anymore so clarifying wouldn't hurt20:45
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annegentleThe Summit code of conduct has procedures20:45
jeblairttx: yep.20:45
annegentle#link https://www.openstack.org/summit/tokyo-2015/code-of-conduct20:45
mordredcpallares: ++20:45
edleafecpallares: yes20:46
mordredcpallares: I like all of the things you are saying - they addreess my concerns with most of the CoCs out there20:46
ttxcpallares: it's not completely crazy to have a small committee with folks from foundation staff, nominees from the TC and from the board to act as a first line20:46
annegentlecpallares: so you're asking about the generic one?20:46
cpallaresannegentle: The thing is that that one only applies to the summit.20:46
annegentlecpallares: got it20:46
annegentlecpallares: I completely agree we need one for all contexts.20:46
cpallaresannegentle: I think there's another one for the openstack blog.20:46
cpallaresI think it should have it's own dedicated space or page within OpenStack. Someplace where it can be updated, easily found, and available for people to easily link for reference.20:47
ttxcpallares: would there be a single CoC for events & general community conduct ?20:47
anteayaI reported a CoC concern to jbryce20:47
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ttxyeah, the Foundatiojn secretary is the person ultimately named in the bylaws20:47
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cpallaresttx: I'd like to examine and expand all of them, but right now I'm focusing on our online community.20:47
fungibeing able to combine/replace those would be great, though it may not be feasible if the users of different services/sites/events are accountable to different groups20:47
cpallaresThings that would apply to IRC, mailing list, meetings, etc.20:48
ttxso at the very least the secretary should be part of whatever first-line committee you would suggest20:48
cpallaresfungi: ++20:48
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cpallaresI've been looking at different Code of Conducts from different communities and I've found Django's code of conduct ( https://www.djangoproject.com/conduct/ ) to be the most documented and well thought-out and it's licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution license so we could fork it and modify it. It includes a clear reporting guide, a clear and documented process for dealing with violators, an20:48
cpallaresenforcement manual, it has frequently asked questions and a change log.20:48
cpallaresAll those things would be a good place to start.20:48
cpallaresWe are having trouble finding a way to make this happen, since we are not sure where the code of conduct operates within OpenStack and we're not sure who would review the violations or how to create this committee.20:48
* mordred adds to reading list20:49
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ttx(asynchronously approved the refstack project team)20:49
annegentlecpallares: and the "ombudsman" group from the board didn't pan out? mordred or markmcclain do you know?20:49
jeblairwould it be a bylaws change?20:49
mordredannegentle: that's a different group/purpose20:49
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mordredannegentle: although I'm not sure it did pan out - but that was a group to ensure that the board was operating in a manner consistent with how the board had declared it would operate20:50
ttxappendix 6, probably yes20:50
ttxheh, we have a code of conduct and a community code of conduct20:50
mordredoh good20:50
annegentlemordred: ok20:50
mordredit's good when we keep things clear20:50
ttxhttps://www.openstack.org/legal/code-of-conduct/ and https://www.openstack.org/legal/community-code-of-conduct/20:50
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ttxmordred: one is for board members, you should have read it20:51
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cpallaresI think one is specific for people within the foundation?20:51
ttxcpallares: clarity and convergence are definitely needed in that dark area, and you seem to have the issue under control. Anything you need from this group ?20:51
cpallaresAnd says things like "don't take bribes"20:51
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jeblairyeah i think the community coc is what we're primarily concerned with20:51
cpallaresttx: I'm looking for guidance.20:52
annegentleand ensuring it's applied beyond just events20:52
mordredcpallares: I like the Django CoC - it's clear and communicative20:52
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mordredcpallares: I think we/you need to make a recommendation to the board to form the ajudication body you are talking about20:52
ttxcpallares: we can take the homework of reading the Django CoC and get back to you with comments ?20:53
mordredcpallares: since it's a power that lays with the foundatoin and therefore with teh BoD20:53
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annegentlecpallares: because the events one has guidance that's difficult to enact online?20:53
jeblairi do think there are aspects of our current coc not covered by the django coc20:53
cpallaresttx: Sounds good.20:53
jeblairi would hate to lose those20:53
mordredcpallares: however, I think we'd all love to be actively involved20:53
mordredjeblair: ++20:53
cpallaresttx: So what could be the next steps to make this happen?20:53
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ttxhow about you come back next week and we'll all have read the CoC and communicate comments20:54
cpallaresttx: Sounds good.20:54
ttx#action TC members to read the Django CoC https://www.djangoproject.com/conduct/ and prepare comments for next meeting20:54
annegentlethanks cpallares for giving us good reading material and an action20:54
ttxcpallares: yes, many thanks !20:55
ttx#topic Workgroup reports20:55
*** openstack changes topic to "Workgroup reports (Meeting topic: tc)"20:55
ttxSmall update from the project team guide, lost in the zuul post queue is the first run of the projectteam guide publication job20:55
jeblairoh neat20:56
jeblairi can kick that manually if needed20:56
ttxI submitted a dumb change to test it20:56
jeblairor that20:56
annegentleha no way20:56
ttxit's just llst in the gigantic post queue20:56
ttxannegentle: it was not totally dumb20:56
jeblairneed moar clouds20:56
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ttxjeblair: working on it20:57
annegentlezuul gated us20:57
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ttxAny other workgroup with an update ?20:57
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ttxnext-tags WG: Please vote on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/207467/ or ask questions if you still have some20:58
annegentlenone from comms other than "do we need a blog post this week?"20:58
annegentleonce we get the new project team guide posted we can add to the highlights blog20:58
ttxNot much to report on, apart from refstack move20:58
annegentleother topics?20:59
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annegentlerefstack move is good20:59
sdaguettx: I left some concerns on that about what counts as "feature". I was not here for last weeks meeting due to LinuxCOn20:59
ttxsdague: wording suggestions welcome :)20:59
ttx#topic Open discussion20:59
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)"20:59
fungiannegentle: we have recognized atcs for translation/i18n now. that may be relevant20:59
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annegentlefungi: perfect, 3 topics makes a post21:00
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ttxLast words ?21:00
ttxThanks everyone21:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Aug 25 21:00:46 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-08-25-20.01.html21:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-08-25-20.01.txt21:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-08-25-20.01.log.html21:00
EmilienM#startmeeting crossproject21:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Aug 25 21:00:54 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is EmilienM. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'crossproject'21:00
EmilienM#link Agenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting21:01
EmilienMcourtesy ping for david-lyle flaper87 dims dtroyer johnthetubaguy rakhmerov21:01
EmilienMcourtesy ping for smelikyan morganfainberg adrian_otto bswartz slagle21:01
EmilienMcourtesy ping for adrian_otto mestery kiall jeblair thinrichs j^2 stevebaker21:01
EmilienMcourtesy ping for mtreinish Daisy Piet notmyname ttx isviridov gordc SlickNik21:01
EmilienMcourtesy ping for cloudnull loquacities thingee hyakuhei redrobot dirk TravT21:01
ttxEmilienM is so good at this I propose he permanently chairs this21:01
notmynamehere (in the back of the room at a conference)21:01
EmilienMcourtesy ping for vipul lifeless annegentle SergeyLukjanov devananda boris-42 nikhil_k21:01
EmilienMttx: :)21:01
EmilienMhello everyone21:01
ttxshort agenda, shall be quick21:02
ttxannegentle: if you want to discuss meeting time move we could add it to the agenda21:02
annegentlettx: oh yes, please, sorry I didn't do that myself21:02
EmilienM#topic review past actions21:02
*** openstack changes topic to "review past actions (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:02
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* edleafe is still lurking21:02
ttxAlso we'll need volunteers for next week21:02
EmilienMttx to followup .Z version increments on stable/liberty commits on the ML21:02
EmilienMttx: o/21:03
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ttxI did that in a follow-up post21:03
EmilienMDaviey to explain why "tag now and then" is the 4th knight of the apocalypse on the ML21:03
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ttxhe did that21:03
EmilienMDaviey: o/21:03
EmilienMand lifeless to document an in-tree solution without merge conflicts21:03
ttxquick note on that21:03
ttxGiven how much time is left it's very likely that we'll do tag-now-and-then and in-tree release notes for stable/liberty since it doesn't require any specific development21:04
ttxand discuss evolutions of that at the summit21:04
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ttxdamn, 6 months is so short21:04
morganttx: seriously21:04
dhellmannttx: I'm experimenting a bit with some scripts based on lifeless' approach, but it's probably wise to go ahead with a single file for now21:04
fungiit's also a nice transition for stable branches, since we'll be starting in liberty with divergent version numbers anyway21:04
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morganfungi: ++21:05
ttxIf we have somethgin ready by then, I'm totally open to going faster21:05
fungiso lock-step stable point releases will be less of an expectation from the community on those anyway21:05
ttxone change at a time21:05
loquacitiesi'm late to the party, but here :)21:05
ttxfor the recotd, lifeless did document his in-tree-without-merge-conflicts solution.21:05
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EmilienM#info Meeting Chairs still needed for September 1, September 29, and October 1321:05
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fungiand also, yes, 6 months is far too short21:05
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EmilienMgordc: if you accept to be chair next week, I'll come in Toronto and give you cookies21:06
ttxI won't take Sept 1 because that's liberty-3 week and I'll be very busy gettign Launchpad aligned with reality together with PTLs21:06
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ttxI advise dhellmann not to volunteer either21:06
gordcEmilienM: what sort of cookies? chocolate chip?21:06
ttxbut anyone else is welcome to21:07
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EmilienMwhatever you like21:07
dimsEmilienM: i can volunteer21:07
dhellmannttx: ack21:07
EmilienMdims: feel free to update https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting21:07
dimsfor Sept 121:07
EmilienMthx guys!21:07
ttxdims: Sold! add you to the page21:07
EmilienM#topic Team announcements (horizontal, vertical, diagonal)21:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Team announcements (horizontal, vertical, diagonal) (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:07
ttxrelease management:21:08
ttxAs a reminder, we have liberty-3 next week, and a number of project will tag a b3 there21:08
jokke_I can take the 29th if no-one else is bidding for it :P21:08
ttxFor those, please join us on #openstack-relmgr-office during Tuesday (September 1st) so that we can help you clean up your Launchpad pages to match what was done since b221:08
ttxjokke_: sold too!21:08
ttxjokke_: add yourself to the wikipage21:08
lifelessok, electrician gone21:08
lifelessI'm actually here now21:08
* dims pays more attention if he is running the meeting :)21:08
ttxlifeless: i defneded your honor and confirmed you completed your assigned action21:09
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annegentleAPI docs21:09
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annegentleSent a status update to the ML21:09
annegentle#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-August/072557.html21:09
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EmilienMttx: should I remind PTLs to reply to your email about summit rooms?21:10
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annegentleand then also asked if any project other than nova generates their request and response samples21:10
annegentle#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-August/072743.html21:10
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elmikoi responded to that too annegentle21:10
ttxEmilienM: can't hurt. If they don't, defaults to one workroom and a half-day meetup on Friday afternoon.21:10
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Daviey(sorry, in a real life meeting)21:11
EmilienMdo we have any other announcements?21:11
EmilienMI guess no21:12
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EmilienM#topic Open discussion21:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:12
morganI like short meetings21:13
EmilienManything you want to discuss that was not in agenda, please go ahead21:13
rbradforI added an item to the agenda. sorry was few mins late21:13
EmilienMoh we actually have two things21:13
EmilienMI should have refreshed my Firefox21:13
EmilienM#topic Having a centralized and web visible place for code coverage of projects21:13
*** openstack changes topic to "Having a centralized and web visible place for code coverage of projects (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:13
EmilienMrbak: go ahead21:13
rbradforhas anybody proposed to have say a cover.o.o centralized home for coverage tests of projects21:13
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rbradforThere are several justifications to consider.21:14
EmilienMnot afik21:14
morganthat would be relatively interesting to have21:14
Rockyghaven't seen a proposal lately, but I'm +10021:14
rbradfor1. It helps new contributors to look for low hanging fruit to consider unit tests of code.21:14
clarkbrbradfor: maybe we can describe what the problems are with the existing implementation (there are many I am sure)21:14
annegentleEmilienM: oh I did add to the agenda21:14
clarkband go from there?21:14
EmilienMannegentle: don't worry, it will be next topic21:14
annegentleEmilienM: ok thanks21:14
fungii think this may dovetail into earlier discussions for a job dashboard (which could provide access to results of post-merge, tag-related and periodic job runs)21:15
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rbradfor2. We can see overall coverage % across projects, and ideally we want to track % (specifically a decreasing % over time for new code)21:15
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clarkb2. is possible today, its just not cleraly exposed21:15
rbradfora few projects have non-voting gates that publish code coverage, but it's just logs.21:15
morganrbradfor: so this has come up before, you can easily get a reduction in % of coverage without a negative impact to the code.21:16
fungirbradfor: not at all21:16
fungiwe upload the html coverage reports along with them21:16
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rbradformorgan, agreed, but overtime would it not be a good practice to see code coverage increase21:16
jokke_I'd really love to see initiative to improve the quality of the tests rather than quantity :P21:16
clarkbfungi: yup, so maybe whatwe need is just an index into the latest coverage report html21:16
morganrbradfor: sure.21:16
clarkbfungi: and possibly generate that index with some scraped summary data21:17
mtreinishrbradfor: also some projects have post queue jobs that generate those reports, but they're kinda hard to discover21:17
fungiclarkb: yeah, i think that was one of the features desired for a job dashboard21:17
morganjokke_: subjective vs objective. thats a hard comparison21:17
rbradforclarkb, a central place for an index, even a wiki page is a start21:17
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morganjokke_: not that i disagree21:17
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morganrbradfor: just wanted to highlight a concern last time this came up (with blocking patches that reduced % of coverage)21:17
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fungi#link http://logs.openstack.org/82/165682/8/check/nodepool-coverage/08c6340/cover/21:18
fungian example21:18
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rbradforhere is an example of published reports from a jenkins job http://logs.openstack.org/38/212738/12/check/designate-coverage/bc2e329/21:18
jokke_morgan: it is, but rubbish unit tests to increase the coverage benefits no-one but the one who looks the coverage figures ;)21:18
* jokke_ is not huge fan of unit tests 21:18
morganrbradfor: as long as we're careful with what we use this for.21:18
rbradforthe HTML is available for viewing.21:18
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morganjokke_: the move to functional tests is good as well fwiw, but that requires a different metric. unit tests have their place21:18
rbradformorgan, I agree, blocking patches with reduce coverage is not a solution.21:18
EmilienMit's the same21:18
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fungiin fact, any time we set an arbitrary limit for rejecting changes, we find that most projects very quickly approach that limit. and if we move the milit, they very quickly reconverge at the new one21:19
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fungimaximum job run time and maximum test run time are good examples, as are memory utilization and disk utilization21:20
rbradformy initial objective is to expose worthwhile information.21:20
EmilienMjokke_: being fan is not an option but is required to write good code I guess21:20
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RockygI think just having the coverage for all projects that do it locatable, no gates/triggers/etc, would provide food for test minded developers21:20
rbradforthe code coverage you can run on your own projects, but it's not published (consistently)21:21
ttxrbradfor: sounds like something you could raise on a ML thread to flesh out the goals, start the design and find volunteers21:21
fungiwell, it's published consistently, it's just not easy to find21:21
rbradforttx, good point. I'll start there.21:21
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clarkbfungi: right I think all it needs as a starting point is an index21:21
ttxbut I agree with fungi that it would be good to not limit to code coverage21:21
rbradforfungi, can you explain what you mean by "not easy to find"21:22
EmilienMsounds like we need to solve the "easy to find" potential issue21:22
fungialso i think at the last summit there was pretty broad support for a test results dashboard for this sort of thing21:22
jokke_EmilienM: I've seen lots of good code without single unit test, I've seen lots of rubbish code with even worse unit tests. Proves otherwise I think :P21:22
morganfungi: ++21:22
fungirbradfor: there's no simple index to them. you need to generate log urls based on commit ids21:22
morganfungi: I think that is going to be more and more relevant as we move towards funcitonal testing for projects21:22
ttxit's been on a the wanted list forever, just not enough people (or days in the week)21:22
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Rockygso, plan to get a spec started is to go out to infra and get what they know about coverage, location of outputs, etc.  Then write a strawman and start the discussion on the ML21:23
rbradformy first objective is to expose the information to identify areas people *can* write unit tests for21:23
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Rockygrbradfor, or functional tests...21:23
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/19225321:23
rbradforRockyg, yes functional also21:23
fungithat i think is the current tangible output from the summit discussions21:24
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fungiso might be a good idea to pick that up and run with it21:24
rbradforfungi, thanks for the spec21:24
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Rockygor run with a section of it...subspec kinda21:24
clarkband yes the coverage html report things that are shiny for humans to look at are published to deterministic locations. The current miss there is we don't index them so that deterministic location isn't clear to everyone21:25
fungiyeah, at any rate discuss the coverage publishing interest in terms of that proposed spec21:25
clarkbso a dashboard can simply find the HEAD commit and link to the report21:25
fungiand trending wouldn't be too hard, though would probably involve parsing some output (and would have similar test name mutability issues that refstack is dealing with)21:26
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rbradforif we keep the text version of the coverage report, even say weekly, it is very easy to publish trending data.21:27
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fungii suppose that depends on the granularity/specificity of what you hope to trend though21:27
fungitrending overall coverage on a per-repo basis wouldn't be too hard. trending per-file runs into issues with files getting renamed, split, combined, et ecetera21:28
morganfungi: i'd go for overall coverage to start21:28
morganper file is something people can drill down into if they *really* care21:28
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morganeventually we might go that way at the index level21:29
morganbut probably not worth it from an initial pass21:29
RockygYeah.  Getting *something* to start with lets us explore how to get more.21:29
fungioh, also one other challenge is retention. currently we only retain a few months of these reports, so long-term trending would need a separate mechanism21:29
rbradforI'll take this input and structure a ML email for wider discussion. Thanks for the feedback.21:29
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mtreinishfungi: also normally you don't care about the coverage of the test itself it's more the other code21:30
mtreinishthat's being tested21:30
EmilienMrbradfor: thx21:30
mtreinishso I'm not sure the name thing applies21:30
morganfungi: I smell a use for graphite or a similar thing. ;)21:30
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Rockygmtreinish, ++21:30
rbradforfungi, technically you can always regenerate the code coverage for a commit.21:30
Rockygmorgan, ++21:30
clarkbmtreinish: Rockyg the name thing applies to files changing names or functions moving21:30
morganmtreinish: I run coverage reports on my coverage reports /s21:30
EmilienMcan we go ahead in the agenda?21:31
lifelessrbradfor: well, you can regenerate /a/ code coverage21:31
mtreinishclarkb: sure, but that's not easily solved like we did it in tempest21:31
lifelessrbradfor: but there's sufficient nondeterminism that I'd not be willing to sign up for /the/ :)21:31
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Rockygclarkb, Yeah.  I'm deep in refstack.  But the coverage doesn't have to report which *test* covered the code.  Just that specific code was covered.21:31
mtreinishmorgan: heh, you joke but at one time there was a coverage tempest run which showed how much of tempest was executed :)21:31
mtreinishI never did understand what that was for21:31
morgani.. ok annnyway21:32
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lifelessmtreinish: didn't it measure the apis under test?21:32
lifelessI swear we did have something21:32
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mtreinishlifeless: no, that was a different thing21:32
lifelessI meant to dive on it and make it better but ETIME21:32
mtreinishlifeless: that was: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Nova/CoverageExtension21:32
mtreinishwe pulled that out because coverage under eventlet was wonky. It's fixed in the 4.0 release21:33
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fungirbradfor: well, i'd be surprised if you could conveniently rerun a coverage report (or even successfully run the unit tests you'd need) for a commit from 2 years ago21:33
lifelessfungi: constraints will make that reasonably straight forward21:34
fungiwe have enough trouble just keeping year-old branches running tests reliably21:34
lifelessfungi: but still some non-determinism21:34
fungilifeless: true21:34
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rbradforwell, I'm happy to work forward for now, getting historical coverage data is a wishlist.21:36
Rockygrbradfor, ++21:36
EmilienMI suggest to continue on ML that too21:36
EmilienMrbradfor, lifeless, fungi, mtreinish: sounds good?21:36
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EmilienMlet's continue the meeting21:37
EmilienM#topic Proposed change to time of cross-project meeting21:37
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EmilienMannegentle: o/21:37
EmilienM#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214605/21:37
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annegentleso ttx just suggested the odd/even trade off which might serve this meeting well21:38
annegentlewhat do you all think?21:38
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morgani was going to say even/odd trade would be better, because at 1300 UTC, I wont ever be there (as an example)21:38
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annegentleI can propose 1300 and what additional time then works well? 0100?21:39
clarkb1300utc is something like 6am PDT and earlier when on PST21:39
morganI would keep this time as the alternate.21:39
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annegentlemorgan: ah, ok21:40
fungii wonder whether alternating meeting times will eventually result in two different groups of people meeting once every two weeks, but i'm not opposed since i can attend whatever time it's scheduled and have no idea how many others are similarly flexible/crazy21:40
morgan1300 UTC alternating I would definitely make an effort and probablly make it to ~3/4+ of the meetings but always at 1300 I'd make less than half.21:40
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annegentleso, 1300 and 2100 alternating21:41
jokke_I personally love the time, but yeah sounds bit harsh for the far West (and that's lots from me as I normally don't care some odd harsh most of these being bit nasty for us here in Europe and equally ridiculous for people East from us)21:41
annegentleI can definitely propose it21:41
morganAn alternative that wouldn't be *awful* is likely 1700UTC [not sure who that conflicts with]21:41
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ttxannegentle: you should update the thread as well, not everybody follows irc-meetings changes21:41
Rockygthe 0100 is better for APAC21:41
morganor even 160021:41
morganbut that is all personal bias.21:42
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jokke_1600/1700 UTC is pretty much never gonna make it21:42
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jokke_Either those slots are already booked for all kind of cross continent meetings, or then I'm trying to migrate from office to home21:43
annegentlemorgan: started with 1700, Euro eats then apparently21:43
EmilienMI think we can debate a lot of time, we will never make everyone happy - meeting slots are always the same discussion21:43
morganannegentle: ah.21:43
morgananyway i'd be fine with 1300/210021:43
annegentleright, so really just wanted to start the convo, see if alternating is needed, see if this meeting could be more finely tuned21:43
fungipart of me wonders whether the americas-centric meeting times are the reason why we have so many fewer emea/apac contributors and makes me want to avoid the appearance that we're picking meeting times out of sheer convenience for the current contributors. then there's another part of me which wonders if we'll simply be alienating the majority of our contributors by picking non-americas-convenient21:44
fungitimes, and will manage to achieve cultural balance through sheer attrition21:44
jokke_I think the 1300 would give us few odd APJ folks coming in as well21:44
morganfungi: i think a little of column a and a little of column b