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| anteaya | #startmeeting third-party | 08:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 8 08:00:50 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 08:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 08:00 |
| anteaya | hello | 08:00 |
| lennyb | Hi | 08:01 |
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| anteaya | hey lennyb | 08:01 |
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| anteaya | how are you today? | 08:01 |
| lennyb | ok, thank you. how are you ? | 08:02 |
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| anteaya | good thank you | 08:03 |
| anteaya | anything to discuss in this meeting? | 08:03 |
| lennyb | i have nothing to ask today, so .... | 08:03 |
| anteaya | okay thanks | 08:03 |
| anteaya | we will see if anyone else shows up | 08:03 |
| anteaya | thanks for being here :) | 08:03 |
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| anteaya | anyone else here with anything to discuss? | 08:17 |
| anteaya | I think I will close the meeting | 08:17 |
| lennyb | have a good day... | 08:17 |
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| anteaya | thanks for being here lennyb | 08:18 |
| anteaya | thanks you too | 08:18 |
| anteaya | see you next week | 08:18 |
| anteaya | #endmeeting | 08:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 08:18 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 8 08:18:15 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 08:18 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-09-08-08.00.html | 08:18 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-09-08-08.00.txt | 08:18 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-09-08-08.00.log.html | 08:18 |
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| alex_xu | #startmeeting nova api | 12:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 8 12:00:04 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is alex_xu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 12:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 12:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_api' | 12:00 |
| alex_xu | who is here today? | 12:00 |
| edleafe | o/ | 12:00 |
| gmann_ | o/ | 12:00 |
| johnthetubaguy | o/ | 12:00 |
| alex_xu | hello everyone | 12:00 |
| alex_xu | let's start the meeting | 12:01 |
| alex_xu | #topic actions from last meeting | 12:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:01 | |
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| alex_xu | sdague to write up test plan for v2.x nova, alex_xu and gmann_ will work on patches | 12:01 |
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| alex_xu | actually sdague did all the things :) | 12:01 |
| gmann_ | yea | 12:01 |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/219370/ | 12:01 |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/219347/ | 12:01 |
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| alex_xu | all of that are merged | 12:02 |
| alex_xu | there is last one from gmann_ | 12:02 |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/219553/ | 12:02 |
| alex_xu | I think this is all for gate | 12:02 |
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| gmann_ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/219555/ | 12:03 |
| alex_xu | gmann_: thanks | 12:03 |
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| alex_xu | I guess this is all for v2 api on gate | 12:03 |
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| alex_xu | sdague: ^ are you around? is there anything more on gate for v2 api? | 12:04 |
| gmann_ | alex_xu: sdague : do we need v21 compatible job as experimental on tempest as discussed on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/219370/ | 12:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | v21 compatible is now the default run right? | 12:04 |
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| johnthetubaguy | given the paste-api.ini changes | 12:05 |
| gmann_ | johnthetubaguy: v21 is default | 12:05 |
| alex_xu | yea | 12:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | hmm, so whats on the v21 jobs? | 12:05 |
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| gmann_ | johnthetubaguy: /v21 service catalog | 12:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | check-tempest-dsvm-full vs check-tempest-dsvm-nova-v21-full | 12:05 |
| gmann_ | and each job for /v2 and v21 compatible | 12:05 |
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| sdague | o/ | 12:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | I thought the first would fire at /v2.0 and the second fires at /v2.1? | 12:06 |
| gmann_ | johnthetubaguy: check-tempest-dsvm-nova-v21-full will be removed in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/219553/ | 12:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | what we are missing now are tests for leagacy_v2 code I thought? | 12:06 |
| alex_xu | yea, I think so | 12:06 |
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| sdague | johnthetubaguy: so check-tempest-dsvm-full is now pointing at /v2.1 | 12:06 |
| gmann_ | johnthetubaguy: for legacy v2 code we have one new job | 12:06 |
| sdague | because devstack compute SC entry is now pointing at /v2.1 | 12:06 |
| sdague | there is a compute_legacy SC entry | 12:07 |
| gmann_ | gate-tempest-dsvm-nova-v20-api | 12:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: OK, gotcha | 12:07 |
| sdague | which is the /v2.0 endpoint | 12:07 |
| sdague | there are 2 jobs testing it | 12:07 |
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| alex_xu | what is for v2.1 legacy compat mode? | 12:08 |
| sdague | gate-tempest-dsvm-nova-v20-api | 12:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, they on the experimental queue I guess | 12:08 |
| sdague | which is v2.0 on v2.1 | 12:08 |
| sdague | gate-tempest-dsvm-nova-v20-api-legacy | 12:08 |
| sdague | v2.0 on old v2.0 | 12:08 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: no, they are in check queue, non-voting | 12:08 |
| alex_xu | ah, yea | 12:08 |
| gmann_ | johnthetubaguy: they are on check pipeline | 12:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, so thats nice and simple, cool | 12:08 |
| sdague | they only run the compute api tempest tests | 12:08 |
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| alex_xu | so we are good, right? | 12:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: ah, so I am looking at runs that are too old, thinking about it | 12:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | alex_xu: sounds perfect to me | 12:09 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: yeh, they landed late last week | 12:09 |
| sdague | my intent is to look at the stats on those today | 12:09 |
| sdague | and if the pass rate is high enough, make them voting | 12:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | sweet | 12:09 |
| alex_xu | cool | 12:09 |
| gmann_ | sdague: do we need v21 comap job as experimental on tempest? | 12:09 |
| gmann_ | sdague: +1 to make them voting | 12:10 |
| sdague | gmann_: yeh, we should probably put both those jobs in tempest experimental as well | 12:10 |
| gmann_ | sdague: yea | 12:10 |
| sdague | gmann_: you want to post the patch for that? | 12:10 |
| gmann_ | sdague: yea, i can post tomorrow early | 12:10 |
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| alex_xu | #action gmann_ post patch put v2.1 compat and v2 legacy jobs as experimental | 12:11 |
| gmann_ | alex_xu: thanks | 12:11 |
| alex_xu | gmann_: np | 12:11 |
| alex_xu | let's move on | 12:11 |
| alex_xu | edleafe will update https://review.openstack.org/#/c/217727/ | 12:12 |
| alex_xu | for this, let's jump to next topic directly | 12:12 |
| alex_xu | #topic v2.0 on v2.1 | 12:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "v2.0 on v2.1 (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:12 | |
| alex_xu | There are some patches we need discussion, and all of them are about whether fix it for v2.1. Let's talk about them one by one | 12:12 |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/217727/ | 12:12 |
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| alex_xu | I prefer fix it for v2.1 also. Otherwise when user switch to v2.1 the functionality of support out-of-tree filters is broken. | 12:12 |
| alex_xu | ken'ichi change his mind also, he removed -1 | 12:13 |
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| edleafe | I haven't caught up on the discussion on that patchset yet. | 12:13 |
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| edleafe | I'm recovering from a long US weekend. :) | 12:13 |
| sdague | right, I thought we were generally agreed to let through scheduler filters | 12:13 |
| alex_xu | edleafe: the argument is more about whether we fix it in the v2.1 API | 12:13 |
| gmann_ | alex_xu: oh, so we are not going with runtime discovery for hint? | 12:14 |
| gmann_ | sdague: for v2.1 also | 12:14 |
| sdague | gmann_: we still need to get to discovery, but if we don't let this through it means that rax won't use v2.1 | 12:14 |
| sdague | which I'd like to avoid | 12:14 |
| alex_xu | gmann_: we need think that more. | 12:14 |
| sdague | they need custom scheduler filters | 12:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | we certainly need some for the v2.0 compatibility mode | 12:15 |
| gmann_ | sdague: humm, yea that true | 12:15 |
| sdague | yeh, but I also think that it's fine to be pragmatic on this one | 12:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | we could just hack the validation logic, but thats pretty aweful | 12:15 |
| alex_xu | to discover which hints enabled in the deployement, shouldn't be done by the json-schema. I think that is capabilites discovery. json-schema is part of our api contract | 12:15 |
| sdague | laski brought it up a bunch of times as a real issue, and I'm fine with that | 12:16 |
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| gmann_ | ohk | 12:16 |
| sdague | so I'm conceptually +2 on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/217727/ - though I haven't reviewed the patch in detail | 12:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, so we need a "proper" way to do all this, but we don't have one right now, so it feels like 217727 is the best way forward | 12:16 |
| sdague | agreed, especially if it means we'll get v2.1 deployed at RAX | 12:16 |
| sdague | I'm happy with that trade off | 12:17 |
| alex_xu | cool, looks like we get agreement | 12:17 |
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| edleafe | +1 from me conceptually | 12:17 |
| alex_xu | let's move on | 12:17 |
| alex_xu | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1491511 | 12:17 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1491511 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "Behavior change with latest nova paste config" [Critical,In progress] - Assigned to Alex Xu (xuhj) | 12:17 |
| gmann_ | ok, for now looks good solution. | 12:17 |
| alex_xu | We have three patches for this bug. | 12:17 |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/220386/ | 12:17 |
| alex_xu | I think this is need fix for v2.1, otherwise the cell functionality is broken. | 12:17 |
| sdague | right, so this is the catch all of issues we are finding | 12:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | (I have a new one, but its a separate issue) | 12:18 |
| sdague | #info https://review.openstack.org/#/c/220386/ - fixes for cell names - merged | 12:18 |
| gmann_ | sdague: i was just wondering if server name can be used as hostname like for DNS entry etc? | 12:18 |
| alex_xu | so we are goodfor this? | 12:18 |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/220279 | 12:18 |
| sdague | gmann_: that's the next one | 12:18 |
| alex_xu | gmann_: you are talk about this ^ | 12:18 |
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| sdague | yeh, so it does get coerced into a hostname in dnsmasq some times | 12:19 |
| gmann_ | sdague: yea | 12:19 |
| sdague | however, in v2.0 there was no checking | 12:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, it does, but its primarily a display name | 12:19 |
| alex_xu | yea | 12:19 |
| alex_xu | so we are good for this in v2.1? | 12:19 |
| sdague | and the v2.1 schema doesn't guaruntee a working hostname | 12:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | (updating the name doesn't change the hostname, for example, at least not usually) | 12:20 |
| gmann_ | johnthetubaguy: yea agree it is for display name | 12:20 |
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| sdague | so I think there should be a follow on bug to make a function that tries to make a safe dns name out of it | 12:20 |
| sdague | for when it gets written to dnsmasq | 12:20 |
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| alex_xu | sdague: I remember there is code take care of it | 12:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: I think thats a good way to go (there is some stuff that trims the name somewhere, for windows) | 12:21 |
| sdague | alex_xu: not that I found | 12:21 |
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| sdague | the only thing I found was it lowercasing things | 12:21 |
| * alex_xu find the link | 12:21 | |
| johnthetubaguy | hmm, maybe its inside the xenapi driver, oh dear | 12:21 |
| sdague | but it wasn't handling spaces or special characters | 12:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | so seems like we need to just deal with spaces | 12:21 |
| alex_xu | #link https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/compute/api.py#L640 | 12:21 |
| gmann_ | sdague: so you mean we allow server name as display name with relaxing much restriction on that and later something should make that a dns name out of it? | 12:22 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: there are a lot of other invalid characters in hostnames as well | 12:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: +1 | 12:22 |
| alex_xu | #link https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/utils.py#L774 | 12:22 |
| sdague | The Internet standards (Requests for Comments) for protocols mandate that component hostname labels may contain only the ASCII letters 'a' through 'z' (in a case-insensitive manner), the digits '0' through '9', and the hyphen ('-'). The original specification of hostnames in RFC 952, mandated that labels could not start with a digit or with a hyphen, and must not end with a hyphen. However, a subsequent specification (RFC 1123) permitted hos | 12:22 |
| sdague | tname labels to start with digits. No other symbols, punctuation characters, or white space are permitted. | 12:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | so I guess the consensus is merge the relax, and follow up with the above fix | 12:23 |
| sdague | alex_xu: that regex looks wrong, but lets take that offline | 12:24 |
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| sdague | I'd like to see lots of unit tests for that | 12:24 |
| alex_xu | sdague: ok | 12:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | +1 for the unit tests | 12:24 |
| gmann_ | johnthetubaguy: +1 | 12:24 |
| alex_xu | #link #link https://review.openstack.org/220791 | 12:24 |
| alex_xu | Another part of relax validation for server name, actually I found some api allow leading/trailing spaces in the name. | 12:24 |
| alex_xu | not sure we want to fix this, as the leading/trailing spaces is useless use-case | 12:25 |
| sdague | alex_xu: also, sanitize hostname is getting called in a weird place | 12:25 |
| alex_xu | sdague: actually it convert from the name | 12:25 |
| sdague | right, but it's changing the db entry | 12:25 |
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| alex_xu | emm...yea, I didn't notice that | 12:26 |
| alex_xu | agree with you | 12:26 |
| sdague | so, how about we open a new bug for getting the hostname bit right | 12:26 |
| alex_xu | +1 | 12:26 |
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| sdague | alex_xu: can you open that bug? | 12:26 |
| alex_xu | sure | 12:26 |
| alex_xu | #action alex_xu open a bug for fix the hostname | 12:27 |
| sdague | thanks | 12:27 |
| alex_xu | np | 12:27 |
| alex_xu | so back to https://review.openstack.org/220791 | 12:27 |
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| alex_xu | whether we need fix ^ | 12:27 |
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| sdague | alex_xu: that one I'm less sure, johnthetubaguy ? | 12:28 |
| sdague | alex_xu: what was the v2.0 behavior here? | 12:28 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, we should match v2.0 I feel, although I haven't checked what that is | 12:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | seems like we should strip the whitespace though, if we allow it | 12:29 |
| gmann_ | sdague: it was mix in v2.0, some resource allow and strip and some does not strip only allow | 12:29 |
| alex_xu | sdague: a little mess if you see the commit message, server and flavor allow leading/trailing spaces and strip spaces and not allow all spaces string, other api with name didn't strip and allow all spaces string | 12:29 |
| gmann_ | alex_xu: yea | 12:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | so I would go for allow and strip for all of them, would that work? | 12:29 |
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| gmann_ | johnthetubaguy: sdague: alex_xu : but do we need to do that for v2.1 also or only for v21 compatible mode? | 12:30 |
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| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: that means we fix the server and flavor, but still strict for other apis | 12:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | alex_xu: how are the APIs restricted? you mean trailing whitespace is always ignored now? | 12:30 |
| alex_xu | gmann_: yea, that also a question | 12:30 |
| sdague | alex_xu: so if we allow and strip, do we need to go and clean up the data in the db for matching? | 12:30 |
| sdague | for the stuff that wasn't stripped before | 12:30 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: some of apis not, like aggregates | 12:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: I am tempted to say no for that | 12:31 |
| sdague | I think allow and strip is probably right | 12:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | alex_xu: I think I am OK with that | 12:31 |
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| alex_xu | so this is ok for v2.1? | 12:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | I am tempted to say yes, but it doesn't feel very clear cut | 12:31 |
| gmann_ | alex_xu: i feel we should have clean way for v2.1 means do not allow | 12:31 |
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| johnthetubaguy | so for the compat, we defiantly need strip and accept | 12:32 |
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| sdague | how bad would it be to allow in v2.0 compat mode and be strict in v2.1 | 12:32 |
| sdague | in terms of code? | 12:32 |
| alex_xu | this patch can answer you https://review.openstack.org/221129 | 12:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | so yeah, maintain our strictness for v2.1, I am happier with that approach | 12:33 |
| gmann_ | sdague: you might need 2 set of schema looks like but may be sone common place change for name format | 12:33 |
| sdague | alex_xu: so it's not just validation right, it's also a transform to do the strip | 12:33 |
| alex_xu | sdague: indeed, we still need python code to strip | 12:34 |
| sdague | we'll still need the transform right? | 12:34 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I guess we can always to the strip, and the schema stops that doing anything in some cases | 12:34 |
| sdague | can that be done as a decorator to transform | 12:34 |
| alex_xu | I think not | 12:34 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: oh, that's true | 12:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: yeah, it just came to me, and suddenly felt more palatable | 12:35 |
| sdague | alex_xu: yeh, so conceptual +2 on kenichi's patch, I'll review after meeting | 12:35 |
| alex_xu | sdague: cool | 12:35 |
| sdague | also, he needs to not put these things in WF-1 :) | 12:35 |
| alex_xu | emm...that only can catch him tomorrow | 12:35 |
| sdague | #action everyone review kenichi's json schema for 2.0 patch - https://review.openstack.org/221129 as a way to enforce differently for v2.0 | 12:36 |
| alex_xu | at line 76 there is terrible regexp also https://review.openstack.org/#/c/220791/1/nova/api/validation/parameter_types.py | 12:36 |
| sdague | yep | 12:36 |
| * alex_xu hate regexp | 12:37 | |
| sdague | honestly, these things are getting to the point where they should probably be enforced with a gramar and not regex | 12:37 |
| * edleafe loves good regexp | 12:37 | |
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| alex_xu | to be clear https://review.openstack.org/220279 fix for v2 and v2.1, https://review.openstack.org/220791 only for v2? | 12:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: its getting dam close | 12:37 |
| * bauzas waves very late | 12:37 | |
| alex_xu | sdague: yea | 12:37 |
| * bauzas scrolls back | 12:38 | |
| * alex_xu waves to bauzas | 12:38 | |
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| gmann_ | sdague: yea | 12:38 |
| sdague | anyway, that's for next cycle | 12:39 |
| sdague | ok, so we seem clear on all these patches in concept? | 12:39 |
| sdague | now it's just getting them into shape and landed, right | 12:39 |
| gmann_ | sdague: yea | 12:39 |
| alex_xu | cool | 12:39 |
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| alex_xu | let's move... | 12:40 |
| sdague | alex_xu: if you remove your -1 on this - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/220279 - I'll approve | 12:40 |
| alex_xu | sdague: done! | 12:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | did we have a previous patch that bauzas was -1 one on, about the scheduler hints? | 12:41 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: I left -1 just for a placeholder until we have a convo | 12:41 |
| sdague | yeh, as we went through that already, lets cycle on -nova after | 12:41 |
| alex_xu | we already have convo for that... | 12:41 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: but looking at the discussion above, is there a consensus yet ? | 12:41 |
| bauzas | okay, move on to -nova then | 12:41 |
| alex_xu | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-novaclient/+bug/1491325 | 12:42 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1491325 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "nova api v2.1 does not allow to use autodetection of volume device path" [Critical,Fix committed] - Assigned to Davanum Srinivas (DIMS) (dims-v) | 12:42 |
| bauzas | when the meeting is ended | 12:42 |
| alex_xu | this already fixed | 12:42 |
| alex_xu | so we are good for this? | 12:42 |
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| sdague | alex_xu: right, we fixed it in both nova and novaclient | 12:42 |
| alex_xu | sdague: cool | 12:42 |
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| sdague | I responded with a long email to gmann_ on the list this morning about why we did it they way we did | 12:42 |
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| sdague | hopefully that has enough detail | 12:42 |
| gmann_ | sdague: ohk, i will read your reply, i was on vacation today | 12:43 |
| gmann_ | sdague: Thanks :) | 12:43 |
| * alex_xu will read the email | 12:43 | |
| alex_xu | I think that is all for v2 on v2.1. | 12:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | so I have a python-novaclient bug | 12:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | its a bit related | 12:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | its described here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/221222/ | 12:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | https://launchpad.net/bugs/1493207 | 12:44 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1493205 in OpenStack Dashboard (Horizon) "duplicate for #1493207 Create Keypair failed on latest DevStack" [Undecided,New] - Assigned to Chung Chih, Hung (lyanchih) | 12:44 |
| sdague | right, the fact that the API isn't defaulting to v2.0 if not specified? | 12:44 |
| bauzas | did we discussed of https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1492925 ? | 12:44 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1492925 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "Lack of API schema definition for different cell filter" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Ken'ichi Ohmichi (oomichi) | 12:44 |
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| sdague | bauzas: yeh, we hit the cells bit already | 12:44 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: my bad, you're first | 12:44 |
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| alex_xu | we said the novaclient default to latest | 12:44 |
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| bauzas | sdague: coolness, thanks | 12:44 |
| sdague | alex_xu: the CLI | 12:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | so python-novaclient seems to default in a broken way | 12:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | the client defaults to find the max version, but not sending version headers | 12:45 |
| sdague | the API should default back to oldest | 12:45 |
| alex_xu | sdague: oops, that bug about api? | 12:45 |
| sdague | alex_xu: yeh | 12:45 |
| johnthetubaguy | it should really default to the min version | 12:45 |
| alex_xu | I remember I coding like that | 12:45 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: agree | 12:45 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: yeh, so it seems like it was just only 1/2 implemented | 12:45 |
| sdague | also, that should be easy enough to test with the functional tests once it's right | 12:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | so the unit tests would have found this | 12:46 |
| alex_xu | yea | 12:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | but they were written so it was avoided | 12:46 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: do you need me take care that patch? | 12:46 |
| sdague | heh | 12:46 |
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| johnthetubaguy | this reproduces the failure: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/221222/2/novaclient/tests/unit/v2/test_keypairs.py,cm | 12:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | been fighting to find a fix | 12:47 |
| alex_xu | cool | 12:48 |
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| alex_xu | so that's all? | 12:49 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyways, seems like we have consensus on the correct behaviour | 12:49 |
| alex_xu | yea | 12:49 |
| johnthetubaguy | I might need a hand with the patch if this next attempt doesn't work | 12:49 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: yea, I can help | 12:49 |
| edleafe | me too | 12:49 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK, cool, just know I need to get back to reviews again | 12:50 |
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| sdague | ok, so is there a way to target python-novaclient bugs? | 12:50 |
| johnthetubaguy | thats all, thanks for the offers | 12:50 |
| sdague | it was duped, so the new bug is - https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-novaclient/+bug/1493205 | 12:50 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1493205 in python-novaclient "Create Keypair failed on latest DevStack" [Undecided,New] | 12:50 |
| alex_xu | ok, so johnthetubaguy you can free to catch me or edleafe when you need a hand | 12:50 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: good point, I guess not | 12:50 |
| sdague | ok, well so be it | 12:51 |
| sdague | I marked it critical so hopefully it doesn't get lost | 12:51 |
| alex_xu | sdague: cool, thanks | 12:51 |
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| alex_xu | anything more for v2.1? | 12:52 |
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| alex_xu | ok, so let's move on | 12:52 |
| alex_xu | #topic Removal of v3 naming from source tree | 12:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Removal of v3 naming from source tree (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:52 | |
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| alex_xu | edleafe: sorry I didn't follow that, any patch you still have? | 12:53 |
| edleafe | yes - looks like https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214290/ needs a rebase | 12:53 |
| edleafe | I can take care of that after the meeting | 12:53 |
| johnthetubaguy | edleafe: if you could take a look at this for me, that would be cool: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/221222/ | 12:53 |
| edleafe | and a few small things for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214311 | 12:53 |
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| edleafe | johnthetubaguy: will do | 12:54 |
| * edleafe will need to make coffee first | 12:54 | |
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| johnthetubaguy | edleafe: agreed, I just -1ed my patch with why I don't like it, but it does seem to pass unit tests now | 12:55 |
| alex_xu | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214311 looks like more important, it correct some log message, they are user faced thing | 12:55 |
| alex_xu | so just for this we just need update patch and review, right? | 12:56 |
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| sdague | edleafe: yeh, I think the -1 on 214311 should be easy fix | 12:56 |
| johnthetubaguy | so the above patch is currently breaking horrizon | 12:56 |
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| johnthetubaguy | and probably lots of other users | 12:56 |
| gmann_ | johnthetubaguy: which one? | 12:56 |
| johnthetubaguy | I mean: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/221222 when I say above | 12:56 |
| gmann_ | ohk | 12:57 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: +1 this is the far most critical | 12:57 |
| alex_xu | yea | 12:57 |
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| sdague | johnthetubaguy: yeh I've got some paper work to do today, but I'll take a look at that patch | 12:57 |
| sdague | and see if I can sort out a working rev | 12:57 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool, just wanted to make sure we all understood the impact there | 12:57 |
| sdague | and make mriedem do more novaclient releases | 12:57 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I did give horizon folks I was talking to a hack, if needed | 12:58 |
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| sdague | right, we should fix it, it's going to break other people as well | 12:58 |
| johnthetubaguy | but we have to fix it either way | 12:58 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: yeah, +1 | 12:58 |
| alex_xu | agree | 12:58 |
| sdague | so... next cycle, can we release novaclient every monday? | 12:58 |
| sdague | because part of this issue is we had 4 months of changes all drop at once | 12:58 |
| alex_xu | 4 months... | 12:59 |
| gmann_ | sdague: nice point to catch those early | 12:59 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: yeah, or every other, that would totally make sense | 12:59 |
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| edleafe | +1 to more frequent releases | 12:59 |
| sdague | and I'd much rather flush out issues faster | 12:59 |
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| sdague | I think a weekly release for a library should be fine | 12:59 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: I mean we should have done every milestone at a minimum, but it just didn't happen | 12:59 |
| sdague | yep | 12:59 |
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| alex_xu | jump to open directly, avoid somebody need help | 12:59 |
| alex_xu | #topic open | 12:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:59 | |
| bauzas | I had a question | 13:00 |
| bauzas | but 20 secs left | 13:00 |
| bauzas | so moving on to -nova instead | 13:00 |
| alex_xu | yea... | 13:00 |
| johnthetubaguy | honestly, I was waiting for the microversion support to drop really, and that was recent, we should do time bound releases there | 13:00 |
| alex_xu | so...thanks all! | 13:00 |
| edleafe | thanks alex_xu! | 13:00 |
| sdague | thanks alex_xu | 13:00 |
| alex_xu | #endmeeting | 13:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:00 | |
| gmann_ | Thanks all | 13:00 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 8 13:00:35 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-09-08-12.00.html | 13:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-09-08-12.00.txt | 13:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-09-08-12.00.log.html | 13:00 |
| Qiming__ | #startmeeting senlin | 13:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 8 13:01:08 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Qiming__. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'senlin' | 13:01 |
| Qiming__ | hello | 13:01 |
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| haiwei | sorry be late | 13:07 |
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| Qiming__ | hi | 13:07 |
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| haiwei | hi | 13:07 |
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| Qiming__ | yanyan has got some network problem | 13:08 |
| Qiming__ | let's wait a few minutes | 13:08 |
| haiwei | ok | 13:08 |
| Qiming__ | anything new from your side? | 13:08 |
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| Qiming__ | not sure cindia is online or not | 13:08 |
| yanyanhu | hi, Qiming__ , sorry I'm late | 13:09 |
| haiwei | nothing special | 13:09 |
| yanyanhu | using web irc now | 13:09 |
| haiwei | but maybe another person of my team will join senlin | 13:09 |
| Qiming__ | okay, let's do a quick update first | 13:09 |
| Qiming__ | haiwei, great! | 13:09 |
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| Qiming__ | we have a looooooooot of things to do, really need more hands | 13:10 |
| haiwei | and also I have invited one to senlin-dushboard | 13:10 |
| yanyanhu | cool :) | 13:10 |
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| Qiming__ | cool, please help link the UI guy to zhenguo | 13:10 |
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| haiwei | in fact, recently i have done few jobs | 13:11 |
| Qiming__ | looking at the work items etherpad now | 13:11 |
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| Qiming__ | don't worry, you will catch up | 13:11 |
| Qiming__ | ;) | 13:11 |
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| haiwei | I am trying to understand as much as possible about senlin | 13:11 |
| Qiming__ | test cases for drivers ... em, we can remove them all today | 13:11 |
| haiwei | godd | 13:12 |
| haiwei | good | 13:12 |
| Qiming__ | haiwei, we are sorry for making things so complicated, :P | 13:12 |
| haiwei | no, that's where senlin is interesting | 13:12 |
| Qiming__ | finally, we are about to clean the l-3 backlog | 13:12 |
| Qiming__ | functional tests ... yanyanhu has done good job there, hopefully scaling test cases will pass soon, after some bug fixes | 13:13 |
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| yanyanhu | yep | 13:13 |
| haiwei | people are interested in when to make an namespace shift | 13:13 |
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| Qiming__ | haiwei, we are in queue | 13:14 |
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| yanyanhu | hopefully this can be done tomorrow | 13:14 |
| Qiming__ | we won't be there when we are not proving the project's usefulness | 13:14 |
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| haiwei | yes, is there any risk that the namespace shift will be rejected? | 13:15 |
| Qiming__ | shifting namespace tomorrow may and may not be a good thing, if we cannot get a few POCs up and running | 13:15 |
| haiwei | it seems kolla is still in stackforge | 13:15 |
| Qiming__ | haiwei, we keep work hard, things will happen | 13:16 |
| haiwei | ok | 13:16 |
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| Qiming__ | just had a conf call with SUR team this afternoon | 13:16 |
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| yanyanhu | shifting namespace is not the goal, making the project popular is :) | 13:17 |
| Qiming__ | they are stuck by some problems | 13:17 |
| haiwei | who is SUR team | 13:17 |
| Qiming__ | yanyanhu, right | 13:17 |
| Qiming__ | it's a shared university research program | 13:17 |
| haiwei | ok | 13:17 |
| haiwei | what are the problems | 13:18 |
| Qiming__ | they are helping us developing clusters of containers | 13:18 |
| Qiming__ | in the framework of magnum | 13:18 |
| Qiming__ | they have just shared with us the code they have developed, unfortunately, I cannot find the links at the moment | 13:19 |
| Qiming__ | will share those with you later | 13:19 |
| haiwei | ok | 13:20 |
| Qiming__ | they are not only working on operating container clusters, but also on auto-scale, load-balance them | 13:20 |
| yanyanhu | nice, then we can make some reviews about the code | 13:20 |
| Qiming__ | yes | 13:20 |
| haiwei | the problems are? | 13:20 |
| Qiming__ | I hope julio can play an important role there | 13:21 |
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| Qiming__ | how to make auto-scaling/load-balancing work between the two layers of entities: VMs, containers | 13:21 |
| Qiming__ | that is an interesting topic to explore | 13:22 |
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| Qiming__ | they already have a prototype using Docker, now they have started playing with kubernetes | 13:22 |
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| Qiming__ | #topic placement policy | 13:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "placement policy (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:23 | |
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| Qiming__ | Cindia has submitted a patch doing placement | 13:23 |
| Qiming__ | it is based on vSphere DRS | 13:23 |
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| Qiming__ | but the idea is pretty generic | 13:23 |
| Qiming__ | we can generalize that | 13:23 |
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| Qiming__ | basically, we have three layers to consider: hosts, availability-zones (aggregates) and regions | 13:24 |
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| Qiming__ | for hosts, nova has different kinds of scheduler filters | 13:24 |
| Qiming__ | we evaluated the server-group API extension, which has many problems | 13:25 |
| Qiming__ | we may avoid using that | 13:25 |
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| Qiming__ | the most significant problem is that you cannot add/remove members in a server-group | 13:26 |
| Qiming__ | as for availability zones and regions, a generic policy can be designed, Cindia and I will look into that | 13:26 |
| yanyanhu | so you can just create/delete server-group as a batch | 13:27 |
| haiwei | what are the scheduler filters in nova? | 13:27 |
| Qiming__ | haiwei, http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/nova/tree/nova/scheduler/filters | 13:27 |
| haiwei | thanks | 13:28 |
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| Qiming__ | if you are making good use of them, you can already do a good job managing the placement of your cluster nodes | 13:28 |
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| Qiming__ | yanyanhu, yes, there is no update operation to a server-group | 13:28 |
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| yanyanhu | understand | 13:29 |
| Qiming__ | I'm thinking maybe we need to get the PRS team involved in the design | 13:29 |
| haiwei | this is the host layer? | 13:29 |
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| Qiming__ | haiwei, mostly host layer and also some support to availability zones | 13:29 |
| Qiming__ | aggregates | 13:30 |
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| Qiming__ | maintaining the distribution of nodes is a challenge | 13:31 |
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| Qiming__ | any questions on placement policy? | 13:31 |
| haiwei | the first step of placement policy is in host layer? | 13:31 |
| haiwei | and also azs | 13:32 |
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| Qiming__ | yep, haiwei, we are targeting a POC on that | 13:32 |
| Qiming__ | some months ago, I saw a demo from PRS (platform computing) team doing various kinds of placement control | 13:33 |
| haiwei | I am not understand senlin generally well, does senlin can do autoscaling of vms in one host, don't consider the az | 13:33 |
| haiwei | now | 13:34 |
| Qiming__ | generally speaking, we leave that scheduling decision to nova | 13:34 |
| Qiming__ | when we are talking about VMs | 13:34 |
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| Qiming__ | however, we can provide some hints to Nova to gain a better control | 13:34 |
| Qiming__ | that is what the 'filters'/scheduler is about | 13:35 |
| haiwei | so using nova scheduler the answer is yes | 13:35 |
| Qiming__ | #topic summit planning | 13:36 |
| haiwei | ok | 13:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "summit planning (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:36 | |
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| Qiming__ | for the coming summit, we need to schedule some discussions | 13:36 |
| Qiming__ | it seems that the meeting rooms are pretty limited | 13:37 |
| haiwei | yes, tokyo is small | 13:37 |
| Qiming__ | hopefully we can still find some places to have a discussion, for planning | 13:37 |
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| yanyanhu | that will be the best | 13:37 |
| haiwei | you'd better reserve your hotel earlier | 13:38 |
| Qiming__ | need to check who will/won't come | 13:38 |
| yanyanhu | haiwei: we have booked the room :) | 13:38 |
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| haiwei | great | 13:38 |
| yanyanhu | although not the nearest hotel... | 13:38 |
| Qiming__ | sadly, our talk proposal wasn't accepted this time | 13:38 |
| yanyanhu | it's about 2.5 miles away from the conference hotel | 13:39 |
| haiwei | yes | 13:39 |
| Qiming__ | totally confused about the voting and selection process | 13:39 |
| Qiming__ | it is not transparent | 13:39 |
| haiwei | a little far | 13:39 |
| Qiming__ | last time in Vancouver, I know that an India company got 4 sessions accepted | 13:40 |
| haiwei | i know some secrets about the voting | 13:40 |
| Qiming__ | sigh ... | 13:40 |
| yanyanhu | anyway, we can plan a meetup I think | 13:40 |
| Qiming__ | there should be no secrets at all | 13:40 |
| haiwei | they make some groups, for compute or network and so on, | 13:40 |
| yanyanhu | to discuss the road map for the coming cycle | 13:41 |
| Qiming__ | surely we will schedule a meetup | 13:41 |
| Qiming__ | prioritize things we want to complete during M cycle | 13:41 |
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| yanyanhu | yes | 13:41 |
| Qiming__ | will check with julio and lisa and others | 13:42 |
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| haiwei_ | I dropped, maybe someone found I am talking secret | 13:42 |
| Qiming__ | :( | 13:43 |
| Qiming__ | #topic open discussions | 13:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussions (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:43 | |
| haiwei_ | besides you two and me, are there other guys will join the senlin discussion | 13:43 |
| yanyanhu | hope xinhui can also join us | 13:43 |
| Qiming__ | I think some guys from huawei, intel and vmware will join | 13:44 |
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| Qiming__ | anyway, with the last pieces of test cases merged | 13:45 |
| Qiming__ | we will focus on getting everything together and do some show case | 13:45 |
| yanyanhu | nice | 13:46 |
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| Qiming__ | anything else? | 13:46 |
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| yanyanhu | nope from me | 13:46 |
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| haiwei_ | 3:0 just now | 13:46 |
| yanyanhu | soccer? | 13:47 |
| haiwei_ | you know it | 13:47 |
| yanyanhu | :) | 13:47 |
| Qiming__ | okay, let's release the channel | 13:47 |
| Qiming__ | do your small talks somewhere, ;) | 13:47 |
| Qiming__ | thanks for joining | 13:47 |
| Qiming__ | #endmeeting | 13:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:48 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 8 13:48:04 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:48 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-09-08-13.01.html | 13:48 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-09-08-13.01.txt | 13:48 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-09-08-13.01.log.html | 13:48 |
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| mestery | Who's here for a Neutron meeting? | 13:59 |
| akamyshnikova | hi | 13:59 |
| HenryG | o/ | 13:59 |
| vikram | Hi | 13:59 |
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| yamamoto | hi | 13:59 |
| armax | I am? | 13:59 |
| john-davidge | hi | 13:59 |
| amuller | hiya | 13:59 |
| ihrachys | \o/ | 13:59 |
| jlibosva | \o | 13:59 |
| hichihara | hi | 13:59 |
| mestery | armax: You're omniscient | 13:59 |
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| mestery | Lets get this party started | 14:00 |
| mestery | #startmeeting networking | 14:00 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 8 14:00:15 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mestery. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking' | 14:00 |
| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings Agenda | 14:00 |
| haleyb | hi | 14:00 |
| russellb | o/ | 14:00 |
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| xgerman | o/ | 14:00 |
| rossella_s | hi | 14:00 |
| annp | hi | 14:00 |
| mestery | Basically, today is 1) Announcements 2) Bugs 3) RC1 (with some yelling about only merging stuff approved to go in) | 14:00 |
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| mestery | #topic Announcements | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:00 | |
| amotoki | hi | 14:00 |
| banix | hi | 14:00 |
| mestery | Liberty-3 is out! | 14:00 |
| mestery | #link https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/liberty-3 | 14:00 |
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| ZZelle | Hello | 14:01 |
| mestery | #info Thanks to armax for going above and beyond last week | 14:01 |
| emagana | Buenos Dias! (Good Morning) | 14:01 |
| mestery | We as a project are lucky to have armax around, and I wanted to thank him! | 14:01 |
| ajo | o/ :) | 14:01 |
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| amuller | armax++ | 14:01 |
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| emagana | mestery: sorry I am late.. | 14:01 |
| ajo | armax^2 | 14:01 |
| mestery | emagana: No worries | 14:01 |
| ajo | :-) | 14:01 |
| * armax blushes | 14:01 | |
| * mestery thinks most people wish he was on vacation all the time after how awesome armax was last week | 14:01 | |
| mestery | Seriously, nice work armax | 14:01 |
| gongysh | hi | 14:01 |
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| mestery | And nice work to the entire TEAM! | 14:02 |
| armax | mestery: ok, now you’re pushing it | 14:02 |
| mestery | :) | 14:02 |
| armax | :) | 14:02 |
| emagana | armax: absolutely! | 14:02 |
| mestery | Liberty-3 was a great team effort by all. | 14:02 |
| mestery | We should all be proud of that. | 14:02 |
| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReleaseNotes/Liberty#OpenStack_Liberty_Release_Notes | 14:02 |
| mestery | #info Please keep updating Liberty release notes | 14:02 |
| mestery | That's all the announcements I had | 14:02 |
| mestery | Anyone have anything else to share with the broader team this week? | 14:02 |
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| mestery | OK, lets slide along to bugs! | 14:03 |
| mestery | #topic Bugs | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:03 | |
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| mestery | Starting at the top ... | 14:03 |
| mestery | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1484148 | 14:03 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1484148 in neutron "neutronclient gate broken following VPNaaS infra changes" [Critical,Confirmed] - Assigned to Paul Michali (pcm) | 14:03 |
| mestery | This one belongs to pc_m, who doesn't appear to be here obviously :) | 14:04 |
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| mestery | I've posted some comments in the bug now, we'll move along unless someone else has an update here. | 14:04 |
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| mestery | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1488282 | 14:04 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1488282 in neutron "Gate failures with 'the resource could not be found'" [High,Confirmed] - Assigned to Salvatore Orlando (salvatore-orlando) | 14:04 |
| mestery | This one is assigned to salv-orlando :) | 14:05 |
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| mestery | I believe 2 weeks ago he volunteered to triage it a bit more | 14:05 |
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| mestery | Reported by armax | 14:05 |
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| HenryG | There was a tempest fix for that I believe? | 14:06 |
| * mestery looks at the logstash query | 14:06 | |
| salv-orlando | mestery but I declared it as "non neutron" | 14:06 |
| * pc_m sorry late | 14:06 | |
| ajo | mestery: comments by salvatore say it seems like a nova bug | 14:06 |
| armax | HenryG: that was a different NotFound | 14:06 |
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| armax | HenryG: actually we had a few that hit at the same time | 14:06 |
| ajo | hi salv-orlando :) | 14:06 |
| salv-orlando | I'm just waiting for a confirmation from the nova people to remove neutron from the affected list | 14:06 |
| armax | one fix went into tempest | 14:06 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: Awesome | 14:06 |
| armax | the other in neutron | 14:06 |
| mestery | Also, the logstash query shows no hits since 9-3 | 14:06 |
| mestery | So .... | 14:06 |
| armax | this one, as salv-orlando points out | 14:07 |
| armax | might be noa | 14:07 |
| armax | nova | 14:07 |
| ajo | salv-orlando: may be we should move neutron out from "confirmed" to something else? | 14:07 |
| armax | ajo: not so hasty | 14:07 |
| ajo | O:) | 14:07 |
| mestery | lol | 14:07 |
| salv-orlando | ajo: sure. will do. sir. | 14:07 |
| armax | typically when you do so, the bug reassert itself as neutron’s fault ;) | 14:07 |
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| pc_m | mestery: I'm here | 14:07 |
| armax | I proved with this one | 14:07 |
| salv-orlando | once armax says it's ok to do | 14:07 |
| ajo | lol | 14:07 |
| mestery | pc_m: Once second | 14:07 |
| ihrachys | yeah, we like to close unfixed bugs | 14:07 |
| armax | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1490051 | 14:07 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1490051 in neutron "test_assert_pings_during_br_int_setup_not_lost fails with oslo_rootwrap.wrapper.NoFilterMatched" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Ihar Hrachyshka (ihar-hrachyshka) | 14:07 |
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| armax | I closed it and it showed up | 14:08 |
| mestery | armax: Silly you ;) | 14:08 |
| armax | mestery: well that was part of the strategy to lure the bug out | 14:08 |
| armax | bugs have souls you know? | 14:08 |
| ajo | armax, we need another phantom state (not closed) ... not to disturb the bugs... | 14:08 |
| mestery | Oh for sure they do | 14:08 |
| ihrachys | he assumed no logstash hits during weekend and labour day == no bug | 14:08 |
| mestery | lol | 14:08 |
| mestery | ihrachys: Doesn't the entire world get Labor Day off? ;) | 14:08 |
| armax | ihrachys: no hits during the weekend no | 14:08 |
| mestery | OK | 14:08 |
| mestery | Lets leave it oipen | 14:08 |
| mestery | salv-orlando looks to ahve this under hand | 14:09 |
| ihrachys | mestery: well, if entire world == NA, then yes | 14:09 |
| mestery | pc_m: This one was your's https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1484148 | 14:09 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1484148 in neutron "neutronclient gate broken following VPNaaS infra changes" [Critical,Confirmed] - Assigned to Paul Michali (pcm) | 14:09 |
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| banix | mestery: yes but on may 1st | 14:09 |
| mestery | ihrachys: lol | 14:09 |
| mestery | pc_m: Any updates there? | 14:09 |
| pc_m | I changed the project-config job and the neutron-client code. Infra indicated they want Neutron cores to review the project config change, before they will review. | 14:09 |
| armax | ihrachys: we had an occurence today by the looks of it | 14:09 |
| pc_m | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/209887/ | 14:09 |
| ihrachys | armax: I debug it now, lots of weird stuff seen in logs | 14:09 |
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| pc_m | The other change, needs this upstreamed, so it can be tested. | 14:09 |
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| mestery | pc_m: Thanks! | 14:09 |
| mestery | armax: Can you review 209887 today yet? | 14:10 |
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| pc_m | Currently, VPN tests are skipped, so it works. | 14:10 |
| mestery | dougwig is out hunting this week with no access to cell or email (so we shoudl all fill up his inbox and voicemail) :) | 14:10 |
| pc_m | Works as in, doesn't fail, but is not really tested. | 14:10 |
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| mestery | OK, lets move to the next one I'd like to discuss | 14:11 |
| mestery | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1491131 | 14:11 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1491131 in neutron kilo "Ipset race condition" [High,New] | 14:11 |
| ajo | mestery, lol | 14:11 |
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| mestery | This one appears to affect Kilo as well as master | 14:11 |
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| ajo | ah, yes, the racy thing, I totally forgot | 14:11 |
| mestery | shihanzhang has a patch out which may be related (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/122368/) | 14:12 |
| ajo | I will follow that up during this week , seems assigned to cedric | 14:12 |
| mestery | It was abandoned | 14:12 |
| mestery | ajo: Awesome, thanks! | 14:12 |
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| salv-orlando | related in the sense that it acvoid triggering the bug | 14:12 |
| salv-orlando | *avoids triggering | 14:12 |
| ajo | mestery, there's some previous patch which already got in that fixes some of the issues they see in kilo | 14:13 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: Well, that's related isn't it? :) | 14:13 |
| ajo | but, there's something that triggers ipset delete when it's already gone (or may be never created...) | 14:13 |
| mestery | ajo: The patch got into master? | 14:13 |
| salv-orlando | ajo,: do you know if someone beyond the reporter managed to reproduce it? | 14:13 |
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| ajo | mestery, I will review the whole thread and link the right patches. | 14:13 |
| ajo | salv-orlando: not that I know | 14:13 |
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| mestery | ajo: Thanks! | 14:14 |
| ajo | salv-orlando: I guess it could make sense to make ipset.delete("aaa") not fail, if the ipset didn't exist | 14:14 |
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| ajo | it could hide some source of races, but at least, we wouldn't block the agent. A warning may work.. | 14:14 |
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| mestery | That's the last bug I wanted to discuss before we move along. Does anyone have any other bugs they want to highlight here? | 14:15 |
| ZZelle | salv-orlando, i am trying to reproduce it but at the moment i fail to reproduce it | 14:15 |
| salv-orlando | ajo: we could put in place measures to avoid triggering the bug, but we'd also be masking the underlying race condition. so we might not necessarily do something good | 14:15 |
| salv-orlando | as at some point the race will explode in our face | 14:16 |
| ajo | salv-orlando, yeah, but the failure mode is horrendous: broken agent until agent restart | 14:16 |
| salv-orlando | (well in the face of the ref impl lieutenant) | 14:16 |
| mestery | *cough cough* kevinbenton *cough cough* | 14:16 |
| ajo | salv-orlando: at least, we could reduce the impact | 14:16 |
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| armax | mestery: kevinbenton is surely still sleeping | 14:16 |
| ajo | and may be link the bug to a logstash query to look for ocurrences | 14:16 |
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| ajo | said that, salv-orlando , I couldn't find those ocurrences in logstash upstream | 14:17 |
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| mestery | armax: He's driving home from disneyland actually and told me he'd miss today's meeting | 14:17 |
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| ajo | (for ipset trying to delete something not existing..) | 14:17 |
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| armax | but he did so last night | 14:17 |
| armax | mestery: last time I checked LA is not that far | 14:17 |
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| armax | from SF | 14:17 |
| armax | :) | 14:17 |
| mestery | armax: Nope, he's on the road right now in fact :) | 14:18 |
| mestery | He must have not gotten enough Mickey Mouse | 14:18 |
| ajo | :-) | 14:18 |
| mestery | OK, lets move on before we lost the meeting completely :) | 14:18 |
| mestery | NExt up ... | 14:18 |
| armax | mestery: um…he’s probably eating corn somewhere on the road | 14:18 |
| mestery | lol | 14:18 |
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| mestery | #topic Docs | 14:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:18 | |
| * carl_baldwin sorry to be late | 14:18 | |
| mestery | emagana: What have you got for us today? | 14:18 |
| emagana | Hello! | 14:18 |
| * mestery sends carl_baldwin to the back of the room | 14:18 | |
| emagana | mestery: not much really | 14:18 |
| mestery | emagana: That's ok :) | 14:18 |
| emagana | I have not seen new review for us.. | 14:18 |
| * markmcclain gets in line behind carl_baldwin | 14:19 | |
| emagana | however, after release-3 is when we should invest even more in Documenting the new features | 14:19 |
| mestery | lol | 14:19 |
| mestery | emagana: That sounds good! | 14:19 |
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| mestery | emagana: Is there a plan, and does it involve Sam-I-Am as well? :) | 14:20 |
| ajo | emagana, me owes QoS stuff | 14:20 |
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| emagana | mestery: I should have more details next week, after our networking docs meeting on Friday | 14:20 |
| mestery | emagana: Thanks! | 14:20 |
| mestery | #info Plan for documentation changes for new Liberty-3 items will be unveiled next week after networking docs meeting on Friday | 14:20 |
| emagana | ajo: Yeah.. I will help there | 14:20 |
| emagana | mestery: Always involves Sam-I-Am | 14:20 |
| ajo | thanks emagana , may be a simple template or initial "empty" review on where to put things would help, then I can follow up adding the details | 14:20 |
| mestery | :) | 14:21 |
| emagana | ajo: sounds good.. You will have it | 14:21 |
| ajo | emagana++ | 14:21 |
| emagana | I will add you as reviewer | 14:21 |
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| emagana | mestery: all from me! | 14:21 |
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| mestery | emagana: Thanks! | 14:21 |
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| mestery | #topic Liberty-RC1 | 14:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Liberty-RC1 (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:22 | |
| mestery | #link https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/liberty-rc1 | 14:22 |
| mestery | Lets walk through what we have targeted and have a hard look at what realistically will make it | 14:22 |
| mestery | Because I still think what's there isn't realistic at this point | 14:22 |
| mestery | First up | 14:22 |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/get-me-a-network | 14:22 |
| mestery | haleyb: This seems like it's Mitaka at this point, does that sound right? | 14:22 |
| armax | mestery: yes, I simply let the stuff spill over RC1 | 14:23 |
| mestery | armax: I would have done the same :) | 14:23 |
| haleyb | mestery: yes | 14:23 |
| mestery | haleyb: That was easy :) | 14:23 |
| ajo | mestery: what's the deadline for the RC1 cut? | 14:23 |
| armax | haleyb: not even foundational work? | 14:23 |
| mestery | ajo: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Liberty_Release_Schedule | 14:23 |
| armax | haleyb: that prepares it for an early land in M? | 14:24 |
| mestery | We'll start cutting RC candidates the week of Sept. 21 | 14:24 |
| ajo | ah, ok, so it's not fixed for RC, just between 21sept to 9oct | 14:24 |
| haleyb | armax: yes, possibly foundation work | 14:24 |
| armax | haleyb: well...by now we’d need a little more than possibly | 14:24 |
| mestery | haleyb: If you land a patch or two for this, we'll let them in pending review then. | 14:24 |
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| armax | :) | 14:25 |
| mestery | OK | 14:25 |
| mestery | Next up | 14:25 |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/lbaas-ref-octavia | 14:25 |
| mestery | dougwig is gone, so perhaps blogan or xgerman can give us an update here | 14:25 |
| mestery | I believe this one is still targeted as being landable, though no code shows up there | 14:25 |
| xgerman | brogan worked all weekend so we should be good for the RC | 14:25 |
| blogan_ | mestery: yeah i believe it is still landable | 14:25 |
| xgerman | +! | 14:25 |
| armax | mestery: that must require landing code in more than one repo, though right? | 14:25 |
| xgerman | +1 | 14:25 |
| mestery | Yay! | 14:25 |
| armax | mestery: so stuff might be out of our control | 14:25 |
| mestery | armax: Right! | 14:25 |
| blogan_ | armax: correct | 14:26 |
| mestery | Where did hte code land xgerman blogan_ ? | 14:26 |
| mestery | armax: Well, it's in our control as it's in the Stadium | 14:26 |
| xgerman | octavia and lbaas repo | 14:26 |
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| mestery | Awesome | 14:26 |
| mestery | #info Octavia as the default LBaaS implementation will make Liberty | 14:26 |
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| mestery | blogan_: Feel free to mark Implemented once you're done | 14:26 |
| john-davidge | nice! | 14:26 |
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| armax | mestery: what about project-config changes, devstack changes etc | 14:26 |
| xgerman | we got them covered | 14:27 |
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| mestery | armax: See, xgerman has it covered? | 14:27 |
| armax | mestery: tight! | 14:27 |
| xgerman | yep, very tight | 14:27 |
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| mestery | Lets move on, we've got plenty of yak shaving to complete while painting the bike shed yet | 14:28 |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/wsgi-pecan-switch | 14:28 |
| mestery | I spoke to kevinbenton today | 14:28 |
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| mestery | And he says we still have a shat at this one | 14:28 |
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| mestery | Though blogan_ said service plugins don't load with the current branch, which is sad | 14:28 |
| mestery | kevinbenton remains vigilant he can get this landed this week yet | 14:28 |
| * mestery waits for armax | 14:28 | |
| armax | mestery: that’s doable | 14:28 |
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| blogan_ | mestery: well i would say most probably do work, but its not the same as the current wgi server | 14:28 |
| armax | mestery: we have targeted code | 14:28 |
| markmcclain | mestery: I've got some time to help kevinbenton with any reviews/work needed to land it | 14:29 |
| armax | mestery: so we have an idea of what to expect | 14:29 |
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| mestery | markmcclain: Awesome! Please have a look here: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/neutron+branch:feature/pecan+status:open,n,z | 14:29 |
| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/neutron+branch:feature/pecan+status:open,n,z | 14:29 |
| mestery | armax: We do | 14:29 |
| mestery | blogan_: OK | 14:29 |
| mestery | So, this one looks like it's covered | 14:29 |
| salv-orlando | mestery: blogan_ did a hack that forces the pecan app to load all plugins at startup | 14:29 |
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| mestery | salv-orlando: Nice | 14:29 |
| salv-orlando | let's say that from an end user perspective it works | 14:29 |
| mestery | rofl | 14:29 |
| blogan_ | mestery: this is just discussing whether it should roll back into master correct? it's not going to replace the current wgi is it? | 14:29 |
| mestery | blogan_: God no, not at this stage! :) | 14:30 |
| mestery | We're just rolling back to master | 14:30 |
| salv-orlando | mestery: but tell armax not to look at the code. He'll faint. | 14:30 |
| mestery | So we can release it as experimental | 14:30 |
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| armax | salv-orlando: thanks for the warning | 14:30 |
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| blogan_ | sorry got dc'ed | 14:31 |
| mestery | armax: Please, refrain from looking for a bit :) | 14:31 |
| armax | I’ll make sure I have a cpr kit next to me when I do | 14:31 |
| mestery | Awesome | 14:31 |
| mestery | OK, lets move along | 14:31 |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/vm-without-l3-address | 14:31 |
| mestery | armax reverted this one, luckily he had a CPR kit close by | 14:31 |
| mestery | The author has reached out | 14:31 |
| mestery | But the new direction this one goes in requires an API change (yuck) | 14:31 |
| mestery | I'm inclined to boot this one out | 14:31 |
| mestery | Thoughts? | 14:31 |
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| armax | mestery: unfortunately I hadn't | 14:31 |
| kevinbenton | Port security is a work around IMO | 14:32 |
| * mestery takes a note to get armax portable CPR kits to keep near his computer | 14:32 | |
| mestery | kevinbenton: Sounds fair | 14:32 |
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| armax | kevinbenton: is alive! | 14:32 |
| mestery | Shall we move this one out to Mitaka then? | 14:32 |
| mestery | kevinbenton armax: ^^^^ | 14:32 |
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| kevinbenton | I think so. We need a more fine grained port security API | 14:32 |
| kevinbenton | Which will take some time to develop | 14:33 |
| mestery | AGreed | 14:33 |
| mestery | #info vm-without-l3-address is a Mitaka feature now! | 14:33 |
| armax | kevinbenton: well, it depends on how fast we can get consensus on the approach | 14:33 |
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| armax | but yeah, probably it’s safer than shipping a hole in the ship | 14:33 |
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| armax | no-one wants neutron to sink | 14:33 |
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| armax | mestery: do you? | 14:33 |
| kevinbenton | The only difference is that they won't have Mac spoofing protection | 14:33 |
| mestery | armax: Of course not my friend | 14:34 |
| kevinbenton | They can still do the non L3 addressed VM | 14:34 |
| salv-orlando | armax: but almost everyone rocks the boat ;) | 14:34 |
| mestery | It's out of Liberty | 14:34 |
| mestery | Lets move along | 14:34 |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/external-dns-resolution | 14:34 |
| amotoki | agree. we may need to combine unaddress port/port security with rbac | 14:34 |
| mestery | This one looks close, mlavelle is working on it now | 14:34 |
| mestery | I expect it to land this week once he re-spins to address current issues | 14:34 |
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| carl_baldwin | mestery: +1 This one is not intrusive. | 14:34 |
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| mestery | carl_baldwin: Cool | 14:35 |
| mestery | Speaking of carl_baldwin .... | 14:35 |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/address-scopes | 14:35 |
| emagana | and some operators need this one | 14:35 |
| * mestery calls carl_baldwin up to the front of the classroom | 14:35 | |
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| emagana | I meant the dns resolution one | 14:35 |
| mestery | carl_baldwin: Thoughts on this one making Liberty at this point? | 14:35 |
| mestery | emagana: ++ | 14:35 |
| * carl_baldwin walks up… | 14:35 | |
| mestery | carl_baldwin: I know you've been pushing hard on this one for the past few weeks yet | 14:35 |
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| carl_baldwin | The optimistic in me wants to say yes. It is functional. But... | 14:35 |
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| carl_baldwin | It needs tests to be completed. I suspect some interaction with DVR and I need to look at what will happen with static routes. | 14:36 |
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| mestery | carl_baldwin: OK, I can leave it in there for now and we can re-evaluate next week? | 14:36 |
| mestery | Sound fair? | 14:36 |
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| * salv-orlando thinks carl_baldwin deserves a wildcard as he was already mothballed for liberty with pluggable-ipam | 14:37 | |
| gongysh | I can join the test team. | 14:37 |
| carl_baldwin | Though I really want it in I think it would be better to merge early in Mitaka. | 14:37 |
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| mestery | carl_baldwin: Well, if that's your thinking, lets just move it out now. Sound ok? | 14:37 |
| carl_baldwin | mestery: ok | 14:37 |
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| * carl_baldwin stashes away the wildcard for later. | 14:37 | |
| mestery | lol | 14:37 |
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| ajo | :D | 14:38 |
| mestery | Next up | 14:38 |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/better-quotas | 14:38 |
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| mestery | salv-orlando: I think we just need to review and merge 3 more patches right? | 14:38 |
| mestery | Or maybe it's 4 | 14:38 |
| salv-orlando | I think it's 3 | 14:38 |
| mestery | Awesome | 14:39 |
| salv-orlando | I can add some more testing coverage during RC phase, I reckon that would be ok, wouldn't it? | 14:39 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: ++ | 14:39 |
| mestery | Thanks salv-orlando | 14:39 |
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| mestery | Next up | 14:39 |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/restructure-l2-agent | 14:39 |
| mestery | rossella_s has been working on this one for quite a while now | 14:39 |
| ajo | carl_baldwin: take out that wildcard for salv-orlando :P :) | 14:39 |
| mestery | 9 outstanding patches still rossella_s? | 14:39 |
| * carl_baldwin hands it to salv-orlando | 14:39 | |
| rossella_s | mestery, 5 | 14:40 |
| mestery | rossella_s: Not bad! | 14:40 |
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| mestery | rossella_s: Are you getting enough reviews for these? | 14:40 |
| mestery | rossella_s: Or do you need more people to help focus on these? | 14:40 |
| rossella_s | in the last days I got more review. Reviewers are always very welcome anyway | 14:40 |
| * carl_baldwin can jump in | 14:40 | |
| mestery | carl_baldwin: Please do! | 14:40 |
| rossella_s | carl_baldwin thanks! | 14:40 |
| mestery | #info 5 patches left for agent refactoring, please jump in and help rossella_s land these this week! | 14:41 |
| mestery | Thanks rossella_s! | 14:41 |
| rossella_s | mestery, thank you | 14:41 |
| mestery | Next up | 14:41 |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/add-availability-zone | 14:41 |
| mestery | If I'm not mistaken, I think russellb was reviewing these and testing htem recently | 14:41 |
| mestery | armax also had a pass on these ones | 14:42 |
| armax | mestery: yes, I meant to continue | 14:42 |
| russellb | yeah i got the first patch to work | 14:42 |
| russellb | wanted to do another pass | 14:42 |
| hichihara | amotoki said API patch is OK | 14:42 |
| ajo | rossella_s: I will re-review them all, sorry for being a bit slow on that. | 14:42 |
| mestery | russellb: \o/ | 14:42 |
| hichihara | I'm waiting his review to Scheduler patch. | 14:42 |
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| mestery | So, looks like armax russellb and amotoki have this one covered | 14:42 |
| amotoki | perhaps we need to review them combined with the scheduler patch. | 14:42 |
| mestery | amotoki: ++ | 14:42 |
| russellb | ok if it's targeted, i'll be sure to do another pass ... i'm traveling this week again though | 14:42 |
| russellb | hopefully can find some time in the evening | 14:42 |
| rossella_s | ajo thanks a lot! | 14:42 |
| ajo | amotoki++ russellb++ armax++ | 14:43 |
| ajo | :) | 14:43 |
| mestery | russellb: Thanks! | 14:43 |
| amotoki | lets check it next week again | 14:43 |
| mestery | And thanks to amotoki and armax and ajo too :) | 14:43 |
| mestery | amotoki: ++ | 14:43 |
| hichihara | Thanks! | 14:43 |
| mestery | Next up | 14:43 |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/lbaas-l7-rules | 14:43 |
| mestery | blogan xgerman: Any update here? | 14:43 |
| mestery | dougwig made it sound like this one may be out of Liberty now | 14:43 |
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| xgerman | I think we deferred that to M | 14:43 |
| mestery | xgerman: Cool, thanks! | 14:44 |
| ajo | not to me, I did nothing related :D | 14:44 |
| mestery | Next up | 14:44 |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/vlan-aware-vms | 14:44 |
| mestery | I haven't reviewed this patches, has anyone been looking at these ones? | 14:44 |
| mestery | I know they landed only a few weeks ago | 14:45 |
| armax | mestery: looks like they have not had any beefy review | 14:45 |
| mestery | armax: I figured | 14:45 |
| armax | mestery: they were submitted too late in the cycle to get enough attention | 14:45 |
| mestery | I'm inclined to give it one more week, but I don't remain optimistic these land in Liberty | 14:45 |
| mestery | armax: ++ | 14:45 |
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| amuller | I think they can be delayed to M | 14:46 |
| amuller | at this point | 14:46 |
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| armax | too bad | 14:46 |
| mestery | Yup | 14:46 |
| mestery | Last one | 14:46 |
| mestery | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/neutron-flavor-framework-templates | 14:46 |
| mestery | Since dougwig isn't here, I'm inclined to just move this to Mitaka | 14:46 |
| armax | mestery: he’s not doing the work though | 14:47 |
| xgerman | well, we have the CLI and are working on a flavor -> service type thingy | 14:47 |
| armax | mestery: someone from xgerman is doing it | 14:47 |
| mestery | I just moved it out, should I move it back in? | 14:47 |
| mestery | xgerman: Are you saying htis has a shot now? | 14:47 |
| xgerman | there is still a chance | 14:47 |
| mestery | xgerman: Please move the assignee to the actual person doing the work :) | 14:47 |
| mestery | xgerman: Ok ,letaving it in | 14:47 |
| armax | mestery: so long as the server side is fairly complete yes | 14:47 |
| xgerman | ok, will do | 14:47 |
| armax | but CLI is clearly blocked on the server side getting in shape | 14:48 |
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| mestery | armax: WEll | 14:48 |
| mestery | Also | 14:48 |
| mestery | We're releasing the Liberty client today | 14:48 |
| mestery | Which means we won't release another one until after the Liberty release I guess | 14:48 |
| * ihrachys dances | 14:48 | |
| * mestery dances with ihrachys | 14:48 | |
| xgerman | mmh, maybe then we are out | 14:48 |
| * ajo dances too | 14:48 | |
| mestery | xgerman: Please add the reviews to the BP as well: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/neutron-flavor-framework-templates | 14:49 |
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| armax | xgerman: the cli was ready to merge | 14:49 |
| amotoki | it is a race condition between CLI dependency freeze and RC features :-( | 14:49 |
| mestery | Yes | 14:49 |
| xgerman | well, my powers don’t let me change much on the BP | 14:49 |
| armax | xgerman: I only stopped it because I looked at hte server side code | 14:49 |
| armax | …and fainted | 14:49 |
| mestery | xgerman: In the work area | 14:49 |
| * mestery rushes the CPR kit to armax | 14:49 | |
| mestery | OK | 14:49 |
| mestery | #topic Open Discussion | 14:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:50 | |
| armax | I am ok, I am ok | 14:50 |
| mestery | Review review review .... | 14:50 |
| armax | …and review what’s relevant | 14:50 |
| mestery | We're nearing the end of Liberty | 14:50 |
| mestery | Yes | 14:50 |
| mestery | PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't merge random stuff at this stage | 14:50 |
| armax | pushing random stuff in teh gate is not helping anyone | 14:50 |
| ihrachys | what's about gate for functional? amuller ? | 14:50 |
| mestery | If you have "workflow +1", you have to pay attentiong now | 14:50 |
| armax | especially if the failure rate is high | 14:50 |
| mestery | We can't afford to merge random things | 14:50 |
| emagana | I want to collect questions back to the Operators? | 14:50 |
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| HenryG | Can vendor decomps continue to go in? | 14:51 |
| emagana | we are preparing the agenda for the Tokyo operators meet-up and the topics are here: #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/TYO-ops-meetup | 14:51 |
| mestery | emagana: Are you looking for input from folks? | 14:51 |
| mestery | HenryG: Anything which removes code is a-ok | 14:51 |
| mestery | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/TYO-ops-meetup | 14:51 |
| armax | mestery: +1 | 14:51 |
| emagana | mestery: Yes, I want to know what this team wants to know from Operators :-) | 14:51 |
| armax | mestery: remove all the things | 14:51 |
| amuller | ihrachys: TBH I've been utterly disconnected since Friday, but I noticed that you and Armando and a few others continued to work on it quite a bit! Thanks for that! I'm pleased with the progress since the last weekly meeting. It's good to see action around that area. | 14:51 |
| mestery | emagana: Sounds fair. | 14:52 |
| mestery | #info Please add anything you want to understand or glean from operators to the etherpad here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/TYO-ops-meetup | 14:52 |
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| neiljerram | May I ask when we'll start brainstorming the Neutron agenda for Tokyo? | 14:52 |
| mestery | amuller: ++, ihrachys and armax thanks! | 14:52 |
| mestery | neiljerram: It's in progress as we speak, but I'll create an etherpad | 14:52 |
| armax | gate stability is top priority IMO | 14:52 |
| neiljerram | Cool, thanks. | 14:52 |
| ajo | git rm ** ; git commit -m "remove all the things"; git review # O:) | 14:52 |
| mestery | #action mestery create Mitaka summit etherpad idea page | 14:52 |
| mestery | neiljerram: Thanks for mentinoing it! With the end of Liberty, I almost forgot to mention that :) | 14:53 |
| armax | gate resets make people unhappy, apparently | 14:53 |
| mestery | armax: ++ | 14:53 |
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| gongysh | I found some patches on https://github.com/openstack/neutron-specs/blob/master/specs/liberty/bgp-dynamic-routing.rst | 14:53 |
| neiljerram | Not wanting to detract from the Liberty endgame focus, of course! | 14:53 |
| gongysh | do we have plan for it in liberty? | 14:53 |
| armax | the more stable we are the more stuff we’re gonna merge | 14:53 |
| mestery | gongysh: Taht is not targeted for Liberty | 14:53 |
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| gongysh | mestery: ok I will move my review to other spec related patches. | 14:54 |
| mestery | gongysh: Thanks! | 14:54 |
| mestery | Anything else from anyone before we close? | 14:54 |
| ZZelle | mestery, should we remove dead code associated to ebtables management? | 14:54 |
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| mestery | ZZelle: Code removal sounds ok, assuming it passes reviews, etc. | 14:55 |
| mestery | Sound ok? | 14:55 |
| ZZelle | mestery, ok | 14:55 |
| mestery | OK, lets keep the Liberty momentum going folks! | 14:56 |
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| mestery | Only a few weeks left! | 14:56 |
| mestery | See you all on the ML, IRC, and in the ether! | 14:56 |
| mestery | #endmeeting | 14:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:56 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 8 14:56:16 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-09-08-14.00.html | 14:56 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-09-08-14.00.txt | 14:56 |
| yushiro | bye | 14:56 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-09-08-14.00.log.html | 14:56 |
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| armax | bye | 14:56 |
| hoangcx | Bye | 14:56 |
| hichihara | bye | 14:56 |
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| neiljerram | bye | 14:56 |
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| yamamoto | bye | 14:56 |
| amotoki | bye | 14:56 |
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| gongysh | bye | 14:56 |
| akamyshnikova | bye | 14:56 |
| xgerman | bye | 14:56 |
| ajo | o/ | 14:56 |
| emagana | adios.. | 14:56 |
| vichoward | bye | 14:56 |
| ajo | adios ;) | 14:56 |
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| gongysh | ajo: our qos is ready? | 14:57 |
| rossella_s | bye | 14:57 |
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| ZZelle | Adieu | 14:57 |
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| ajo | gongysh: just a couple of bugs and doc | 14:59 |
| ajo | and we're done | 14:59 |
| ajo | I'm working on the last right now, look-> (1sec) | 14:59 |
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| ajo | oh, an this one owed by you: https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1486607 | 14:59 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1486607 in neutron "tenants are able to detach admin enforced QoS policies from ports or networks" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to yong sheng gong (gongysh) | 14:59 |
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| gongysh | that is almost done. I will update a new patch set. | 15:00 |
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| ajo | gongysh, me: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/220164/ and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214218/5 | 15:00 |
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| gongysh | ajo: I add myself into the reviewers for these two, I will do it later. | 15:02 |
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| dstanek | pinging ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, ericksonsantos, geoffarnold, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, joesavak, lbragstad, lhcheng, marekd, morganfainberg, nkinder, raildo, rharwood, rodrigods, roxanaghe, samueldmq, stevemar, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong, claudiub | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | dstanek: o/ | 18:00 |
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| tsymanczyk | o/ | 18:00 |
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| lhcheng | o/ | 18:00 |
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| stevemar | o/ | 18:00 |
| samueldmq | hi o/ | 18:00 |
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| henrynash | hello | 18:00 |
| ayoung_ | I'm here | 18:00 |
| raildo | o_ | 18:00 |
| htruta | o/ | 18:00 |
| samueldmq | ayoung_, hey | 18:00 |
| SheenaG | Hi all | 18:00 |
| ericksonsantos | o/ | 18:00 |
| stevemar | senor dstanek hosting again :) | 18:00 |
| dstanek | today will be busy - lots on the agenta! | 18:00 |
| gyee | \o | 18:00 |
| * geoffarnold lurking - pulled into another mtg | 18:01 | |
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| stevemar | lets do it up! | 18:01 |
| dstanek | #startmeeting keystone | 18:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 8 18:01:09 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dstanek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:01 |
| dstanek | woot! | 18:01 |
| dstanek | #topic Keystoneclient v2 branch | 18:01 |
| bknudson | hi | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Keystoneclient v2 branch (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:01 | |
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| dstanek | jamielennox you around? | 18:01 |
| stevemar | bknudson: hi | 18:01 |
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| claudiub | o/ | 18:02 |
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| dstanek | if not we can skip and defer until later... | 18:02 |
| stevemar | dstanek: defer? | 18:02 |
| dstanek | stevemar: whatever jamie wanted to discuss | 18:02 |
| bknudson | we can't make big breaks. | 18:02 |
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| ayoung_ | dstanek, he might still be waking up | 18:03 |
| dstanek | ayoung_: yeah, i figured | 18:03 |
| topol | o/ | 18:03 |
| stevemar | just bump it to the end of the agenda | 18:03 |
| ayoung_ | ++ | 18:03 |
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| bknudson | circle back | 18:03 |
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| dstanek | #topic Changing driver version numbers....looking for guidance on how this should work? | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Changing driver version numbers....looking for guidance on how this should work? (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:03 | |
| dstanek | henrynash! | 18:04 |
| henrynash | ok, so dstanek and I started to chat about this | 18:04 |
| henrynash | First…wasn’t celar to me if the driver versions are now released/frozen? | 18:04 |
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| henrynash | (I have this bug fix that wants to add three new driver methods) | 18:04 |
| bknudson | I think they're frozen. | 18:05 |
| bknudson | at feature freeze | 18:05 |
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| gyee | didn't he have FFE? | 18:05 |
| hogepodge | o/ | 18:05 |
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| henrynash | gyee: this is for a bug fix, not a new bp | 18:05 |
| dstanek | so does that mean that this particular bug needs to wait until M and can't be merged into L without a FFE? | 18:06 |
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| amakarov | henrynash, can you give a link please? | 18:06 |
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| henrynash | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/191976/ | 18:06 |
| gyee | henrynash, so these methods can't be implemented in the compatibility layer? | 18:07 |
| henrynash | gyee: so, no….but that raises a second question | 18:07 |
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| henrynash | gyee: in our developing_drivers.rst we say that we will add naive implementaions to the “old driver” | 18:08 |
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| henrynash | gyee: which actually wasn’t what I was expecting….but that’s what I followed in teh patch I have submitted | 18:08 |
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| dstanek | henrynash: so here's how i was picturing this | 18:08 |
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| dstanek | we release L on V8 versions of drivers and M on V9. if things are added to V9 then they have to be added to V8 (via a method in core.py so a driver implementer is not required to do anything) | 18:09 |
| dstanek | some people have differing ideas on when to version | 18:09 |
| gyee | so anything you need at the atomic level, should be provided by the old drivers by now, and any optimization that the old drivers doesn't have at the moment should be implementd at the naive layer. | 18:10 |
| dstanek | i like per release because it's really easy to know what the current and supported versions actually are | 18:10 |
| henrynash | dstanek: I also like per release or I think we’ll all get confused | 18:10 |
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| gyee | same argument apply to, say, adding a param to the public API in order to fix a bug | 18:11 |
| dstanek | henrynash: yes, v8 or identity, v10 of assignments, etc... yes, can get very confusing | 18:11 |
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| henrynash | gyee, dstanek: so since I need a new sql table, looks like I can’t fix this in M | 18:11 |
| henrynash | sorry, I mean L | 18:11 |
| dstanek | we should treat driver API changes like we to REST API changes now. so i'm assuming that means FFE at this point? | 18:11 |
| gyee | dstanek, ++ | 18:12 |
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| * morgan is lurking. | 18:12 | |
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| morgan | Yes i would say ffe or similar | 18:12 |
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| * gyee high fives stevemar | 18:13 | |
| lbragstad | so all interfaces are locked down after milestone 3? | 18:13 |
| henrynash | dtsanek: and when we do add a new version, as you said on IRC…we add this to the same driver file…but how do we use config to load the right driver? | 18:13 |
| stevemar | unless they have an FFE | 18:13 |
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| henrynash | stevemar: would we allow an FFE that chanegd the interfaces? | 18:14 |
| bknudson | if it's not changing interfaces is it a feature? | 18:14 |
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| dstanek | so i think FFE unless there are other thoughts here... | 18:15 |
| bknudson | I guess a new backend would be considered a feature. | 18:15 |
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| stevemar | henrynash: i would think so | 18:16 |
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| gyee | but a feature doesn't mean it must change the interface | 18:16 |
| dstanek | bknudson: yeah, and we could do other things that add features using config, etc. | 18:16 |
| morgan | dstanek: that would be my choice | 18:16 |
| dstanek | ok, i want to keep us moving | 18:16 |
| henrynash | bknudson, stevemar, dtsanek: I imagined teh need for an FFE is just since we are landing code late taht is dangerous…if we are serious about supporting driver writers, I think we have to lock the interface at L3 | 18:16 |
| gyee | henrynash, how about locking all interfaces by L2, both API and driver | 18:17 |
| dstanek | henrynash: i say yes for now. we have to start the process sometime and in the future i think this will matter more and more | 18:17 |
| stevemar | lock all *existing* interfaces | 18:17 |
| gyee | if we are treating driver interfaces like public APIs | 18:17 |
| stevemar | not new ones | 18:18 |
| henrynash | gyee: I think L2 is too restrictive (now that we are saying we’l support teh old version for a full release)... | 18:18 |
| dstanek | #agreed we have frozen the v8 driver APIs as of L3 and require a FFE to make changes to them | 18:18 |
| topol | can we document somewhere that driver interfaces are analogous to public APIs/ | 18:18 |
| topol | if thats the way we go | 18:18 |
| dstanek | #action dstanek to follow up in the l2 vs l3 debate and write it in the docs | 18:19 |
| gyee | sure, I agree | 18:19 |
| stevemar | topol: we started to doc this | 18:19 |
| henrynash | dstanek: ….and i think we need a very good reason to allow an FFE that changes them | 18:19 |
| bknudson | I missed V1-7. | 18:19 |
| stevemar | topol: http://docs.openstack.org/developer/keystone/developing_drivers.html | 18:19 |
| topol | stevemar awesome | 18:19 |
| stevemar | bknudson: we all did :( | 18:19 |
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| henrynash | bknduson: they were great! | 18:19 |
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| dstanek | bknudson: we let versioning slide! it was actually V* | 18:19 |
| stevemar | v1-v7 had no issues! | 18:20 |
| dstanek | #topic keystonemiddleware tests broken by keystoneclient release | 18:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "keystonemiddleware tests broken by keystoneclient release (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:20 | |
| henrynash | ok, I’ll change with dstanek after on my otehr quetsions on versions | 18:20 |
| dstanek | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-keystoneclient/+bug/1492600 (bug assigned to davechen) | 18:20 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1492600 in python-keystoneclient "Session._send_request(...) doesnt catch the exception properly" [Critical,In progress] - Assigned to Dave Chen (wei-d-chen) | 18:20 |
| henrynash | (I’ll chat wth) | 18:20 |
| bknudson | anybody have time to look at this? | 18:20 |
| topol | stevemar so it just needs to be updated with our stated direction then | 18:20 |
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| dstanek | #link http://logs.openstack.org/13/208213/2/check/gate-keystonemiddleware-python27/3e14ede/console.html.gz#_2015-09-04_17_56_39_631 | 18:20 |
| dstanek | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/220736/ Proposed change to ksc | 18:20 |
| bknudson | otherwise it'll be my top priority after I get some other work done. | 18:20 |
| stevemar | topol: yep, sounds like something for you to do :P | 18:20 |
| stevemar | *delegate up!* | 18:20 |
| bknudson | ksm is blocked currently | 18:20 |
| bknudson | might be something I broke. | 18:20 |
| topol | stevemar, cool | 18:20 |
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| dstanek | bknudson: is this the deprecation stuff? | 18:21 |
| ayoung_ | #action blk-u fix KC | 18:21 |
| bknudson | that was it. | 18:21 |
| * topol stevemar always throws me bones :-) | 18:21 | |
| gyee | bknudson, link? which review is broken? | 18:21 |
| bknudson | I don't know. I haven't looked at it. | 18:21 |
| gyee | nm | 18:21 |
| bknudson | all recent keystonemiddleware changes are failing | 18:22 |
| bknudson | since the keystoneclient release. | 18:22 |
| ayoung_ | raildo, don't -1 something that is a rollback...lets get it fixed, and investigate underlying cause second | 18:22 |
| gyee | ohhh! not exception mapping again | 18:22 |
| ayoung_ | dstanek, bknudson do we need https://review.openstack.org/#/c/220736/2 to unblock? | 18:22 |
| gyee | we went through that once | 18:23 |
| bknudson | ayoung_: I haven't looked at it enough to know if https://review.openstack.org/#/c/220736/2 is the fix. | 18:23 |
| ayoung_ | k | 18:23 |
| raildo | ayoung_: ok :) | 18:23 |
| gyee | I don't like that fix | 18:23 |
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| gyee | catching ConnectionError twice | 18:24 |
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| ayoung_ | since it makes it through check, does that mean it fixes the issue? | 18:24 |
| bknudson | if that change is necessary then we've made a backwards-incompatible change | 18:24 |
| dstanek | gyee: two different exceptions though | 18:24 |
| bknudson | so we should revert the change if we can figure out which one it is. | 18:24 |
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| stevemar | we will also need a ksc release | 18:24 |
| dstanek | bknudson: is this something that you have time for? or are you looking for someone to step up? | 18:25 |
| gyee | dstanek, I bet we mapped the ConnectionError somewhere | 18:25 |
| gyee | redefined | 18:25 |
| bknudson | dstanek: I'll have time, but it won't be until tomorrow at the earliest. | 18:25 |
| * stevemar didn't realize we releases a new ksc version yesterday.... | 18:25 | |
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| stevemar | where was the ML announcement on that one | 18:26 |
| dstanek | gyee: if it were the same class, just "redefined" through imports it would be fine. this would appear to be a while new exception | 18:26 |
| stevemar | err.. on friday | 18:26 |
| bknudson | who does releases on friday before labor day? | 18:26 |
| morgan | bknudson: sorry :( | 18:26 |
| stevemar | it was anti-morgan, the evil one | 18:27 |
| morgan | It was supposed to go out on ... Uh thursday | 18:27 |
| morgan | Or wednesday | 18:27 |
| ayoung_ | they anti-morgan is the good one | 18:27 |
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| ayoung_ | otherwise my minion-to-evil-overlord contract is null | 18:27 |
| lhcheng | agree with bknudson, we should rollback rather than just fixing the tests to pass. | 18:28 |
| lhcheng | bknudson: I have some time later in the afternoon, I can start looking at it. | 18:28 |
| bknudson | that would be great, thanks lhcheng! | 18:28 |
| dstanek | ok! | 18:28 |
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| dstanek | #action lhcheng to start looking into the ksm issue caused by the ksc release. | 18:29 |
| dstanek | #topic python-keystoneclient uses socket attributes that do not exist in Windows | 18:29 |
| dstanek | socket.TCP_KEEPCNT and socket.KEEPINTVL do not exist in windows. because of this, the nova-compute service running on Hyper-V is not able to create instances. | 18:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "python-keystoneclient uses socket attributes that do not exist in Windows (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:29 | |
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| claudiub | o/ | 18:29 |
| dstanek | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/211686/ proposed partial fix to make creating instances on Hyper-V possible | 18:29 |
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| stevemar | ugh, who the heck is using windows | 18:29 |
| dstanek | claudiub: all you | 18:29 |
| morgan | Ugh. Yah so we should fix that fast and release | 18:30 |
| stevemar | oh its claudiub i'll be nice :) | 18:30 |
| claudiub | ty. so, we really want this... | 18:30 |
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| bknudson | if windows is important let's get some ci for it. | 18:30 |
| claudiub | we've been hitting this more and more often | 18:30 |
| morgan | bknudson: ++ | 18:30 |
| claudiub | even in the hyper-v ci | 18:30 |
| dstanek | i thought the change was OK based on the docs, but i have not tried to actually use it on windows | 18:31 |
| claudiub | and johnthetubaguy had the same problem with os x | 18:31 |
| lbragstad | os x 10.10 i believe | 18:31 |
| dstanek | really? | 18:31 |
| claudiub | yeah, he commented on the patch and the bug report | 18:31 |
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| stevemar | this fix seems completely reasonable to me | 18:32 |
| ayoung_ | running the client from Windows seems reasonable. | 18:32 |
| bknudson | the bug is Medium importance. | 18:32 |
| claudiub | it won't break anything that already exists | 18:32 |
| morgan | Os x is not officially supported | 18:32 |
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| stevemar | morgan: not even for the clients? | 18:32 |
| claudiub | it just makes sure it won't die for windows and os x | 18:32 |
| bknudson | there's no ci for OS X either. | 18:32 |
| stevemar | and this doesn't change existing behaviour | 18:32 |
| morgan | Not unless someone ci's it | 18:32 |
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| morgan | Windows there is ci possible | 18:33 |
| dstanek | ok, so we just need people to go look at the review | 18:33 |
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| lbragstad | amakarov: had some questions on it, but I think they've been answered... | 18:34 |
| stevemar | even on L941 we have OS specific handling | 18:34 |
| stevemar | this seems like a no-brainer | 18:34 |
| ayoung_ | he was asking if the CR is incomplete. | 18:34 |
| dstanek | sounds like nobody has objections so i'd like to move on | 18:34 |
| stevemar | err, not OS-specific, but we have similar checks | 18:34 |
| ayoung_ | I thin the answer is no; they have a todo but it needs a requests change | 18:34 |
| dstanek | it would be nice to get sigmavirus24's opinion in there too if he hasn't already commented | 18:34 |
| ayoung_ | and it is a "should" not a "must" | 18:34 |
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| amakarov | lbragstad, ? | 18:35 |
| ayoung_ | amakarov, care to remove your -1? | 18:35 |
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| ayoung_ | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/211686/7/keystoneclient/session.py | 18:35 |
| lbragstad | amakarov: your comment here - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/211686/ | 18:35 |
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| amakarov | lbragstad, aha, I see it | 18:36 |
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| sigmavirus24 | dstanek: sorry waht's up? | 18:36 |
| amakarov | My question is answered indeed? thank you | 18:36 |
| amakarov | s/?/,/ | 18:36 |
| claudiub | ok, so I only have to change the TODO to a NOTE? | 18:36 |
| dstanek | sigmavirus24: we're talking about https://review.openstack.org/#/c/211686 | 18:36 |
| sigmavirus24 | Yeah that's a reasonable review | 18:37 |
| sigmavirus24 | I still need to find time to add ioctl support to urllib3 | 18:37 |
| dstanek | claudiub: i also agree with jamie's comment about the link | 18:37 |
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| sigmavirus24 | but that's something the author and I are in agreement about adding | 18:37 |
| sigmavirus24 | Just a matter of me finding time to do it how we discussed | 18:37 |
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| dstanek | sigmavirus24: do you have an issue already created for it or would you like us to do it? | 18:38 |
| sigmavirus24 | dstanek: we haven't created one yet, but I can create that | 18:38 |
| ayoung_ | leave as a TODO | 18:38 |
| claudiub | k | 18:39 |
| ayoung_ | it should be done, but can't be until the requests change is n | 18:39 |
| ayoung_ | is in | 18:39 |
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| dstanek | claudiub: we should link to the requests issue too | 18:39 |
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| lbragstad | ++ | 18:39 |
| dstanek | ok, so we just need some minor things here including some eyeballs on the review | 18:39 |
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| stevemar | todo -> note + link to requests | 18:40 |
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| bknudson | it's even got nice unit tests. | 18:40 |
| claudiub | cool, can you paste the link to requests? | 18:40 |
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| lbragstad | claudiub: that will probably have to wait until the issue it created. | 18:40 |
| lbragstad | s/it/is/ | 18:41 |
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| dstanek | lbragstad: ++ | 18:41 |
| dstanek | ok, moving on | 18:41 |
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| claudiub | also, seems to be mixed opinions on wheter it should be a todo or a note | 18:41 |
| claudiub | ok | 18:41 |
| claudiub | ty :) | 18:41 |
| dstanek | #topic Policies | 18:41 |
| dstanek | FFE has been requested? | 18:41 |
| bknudson | let's bikeshed it some more. | 18:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Policies (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:41 | |
| dstanek | samueldmq: you.... | 18:41 |
| samueldmq | hello everybody :) | 18:41 |
| dstanek | claudiub: they can debate in the review :-) | 18:41 |
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| samueldmq | I basically want to discuss with you the need for FFE vs Postpone on this subject | 18:41 |
| samueldmq | all the code in the implementation now is < 600 lines, and need some reviews | 18:42 |
| stevemar | lol @ bknudson | 18:42 |
| samueldmq | #link Server: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/216851/ | 18:42 |
| samueldmq | #link Middleware: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/205049/ | 18:42 |
| samueldmq | #link Oslo: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/200257/ | 18:42 |
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| samueldmq | only the oslo.policy one is needing an update to deal with some lock, etc | 18:43 |
| samueldmq | when dealing with files | 18:43 |
| samueldmq | + CacheControl support in ksclient, which is something dstanek was looking at | 18:43 |
| dstanek | samueldmq: so what is the need for a FFE? | 18:43 |
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| samueldmq | dstanek, to get it merged this cycle we need a FFE, right ? | 18:44 |
| samueldmq | I wanted to know if someone is already for/against it as FFE, and if we go for it, we need some cores to signup for review | 18:44 |
| dstanek | samueldmq: no, i mean what's the case for doing it? you have to persuade the voters | 18:45 |
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| samueldmq | dstanek, k, so .. the feature everyone knows, we have relaxed the implementation which is much more consisntent and simpler for now | 18:45 |
| samueldmq | gyee put us in contact with some guys of HP public cloud (stackholders) | 18:46 |
| samueldmq | and we checked they won't be able to use it in L even if it's merged, because it'll be experimental | 18:46 |
| bknudson | we should always use the term "stackholders" | 18:46 |
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| samueldmq | however to become stable, everything needs to be experimental previously (right morgan ?) | 18:47 |
| samueldmq | so that's my call for opening a FFE on it | 18:47 |
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| samueldmq | we have stackholders, we have the code, we need eyes on it | 18:47 |
| morgan | samueldmq: yes. Experimental first. | 18:47 |
| samueldmq | and would like to check whether the core team is for/against it | 18:47 |
| gyee | anybody besides me are going to review it? | 18:47 |
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| dstanek | samueldmq: so you are making the case to wait? since nobody will use it is there a reward? | 18:48 |
| samueldmq | dstanek, no.. HP public cloud won't use it before it is stable, but it won't be stable before being experimental | 18:48 |
| henrynash | samueldmq: so the argumetn taht we must put it in no simply becuase we think allowing a relase cycle to go by will make it stable is not a good arguemnt | 18:49 |
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| samueldmq | henrynash, makes sense, because people have to use it to make it stable, not just waiting | 18:49 |
| henrynash | if something is good, solid and we really need it, we have said that it is possible to go from experimental to stable in a cycle | 18:49 |
| bknudson | we at least give them the opportunity to use it | 18:49 |
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| dstanek | samueldmq: it also can't be stable until it's done. since we are building up to the real functionality will is be stable anytime soon? | 18:49 |
| samueldmq | however I do believe we have other stackholders as well, like good feedbacks we've received in the operators ML | 18:49 |
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| bknudson | if they don't take advantage and then have complaints later it's their own fault | 18:50 |
| * lbragstad 10 minutes left | 18:50 | |
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| bknudson | then again, they can cherry-pick the changes and try it that way. | 18:50 |
| samueldmq | dstanek, we'll have it all (the delivery) .. the implementation is simpler now | 18:50 |
| dstanek | samueldmq: do they want HTTP policy or dynamic policy? | 18:50 |
| gyee | dynamic policy, but isn't HTTP a requirement? | 18:51 |
| samueldmq | dstanek, fetching is part of all the dynamic stuff | 18:51 |
| samueldmq | gyee, ++ | 18:51 |
| stevemar | samueldmq: looks like you are changing the response of an API | 18:51 |
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| samueldmq | stevemar, we include a header: Cache-Control | 18:51 |
| samueldmq | stevemar, so yes, we're chaging it | 18:52 |
| dstanek | samueldmq: so HTTP policy is experimental now and will be stable in M, dynamic policy would be experimental in M and stable in N? | 18:52 |
| gyee | I can do dynamic and have them delivered by a bunch of mice | 18:52 |
| henrynash | I thought we agreed we would kill the phrase “dynamic policy”….it is centralised policy….peopl can be really dynamic today with their own cms | 18:52 |
| samueldmq | dstanek, the rest of the features in dynamc policies, possibly yes | 18:52 |
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| samueldmq | henrynash, ++ | 18:52 |
| stevemar | samueldmq: not just that, but you add 'freshness' to http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/keystone-specs/api/v3/identity-api-v3-os-endpoint-policy.html#get-effective-policy-associated-with-endpoint | 18:52 |
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| morgan | dstanek: not stable in M | 18:52 |
| morgan | Might be stable in M | 18:52 |
| lbragstad | henrynash: ++ | 18:52 |
| dstanek | ok, put it to a vote? | 18:52 |
| samueldmq | dstanek, that comes from controller, and is extracted in the wsgi level | 18:52 |
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| samueldmq | dstanek, yes please | 18:53 |
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| samueldmq | if that makes sense to everybody to make it a vote | 18:53 |
| bknudson | if nobody's going to sign up to review it there's no point to the vote. | 18:53 |
| ayoung_ | so... | 18:53 |
| ayoung_ | HTTP policy would be really nice... | 18:53 |
| dstanek | #vote FFE for the policy over HTTP changes. allow it? yes,no | 18:53 |
| dstanek | #startvote FFE for the policy over HTTP changes. allow it? yes,no | 18:54 |
| samueldmq | #vote yes | 18:54 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: FFE for the policy over HTTP changes. allow it? Valid vote options are yes, no. | 18:54 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 18:54 |
| henrynash | samueldmq: however, we should be under no illusion that getting it in now as experiemtal means it will be made stable in M….that’s down to whether we think it is ready | 18:54 |
| ayoung_ | #vote yes | 18:54 |
| dstanek | starting would have helped | 18:54 |
| samueldmq | #vote yes | 18:54 |
| bknudson | #vote no | 18:54 |
| morgan | henrynash: ++ | 18:54 |
| samueldmq | henrynash, yes I agree, it can get experimental now, and stable in N or so, with the rest of policy stuff | 18:54 |
| bknudson | I don't think it's worth the chance of instability. | 18:54 |
| dstanek | #vote no | 18:54 |
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| ayoung_ | you guys are being short sighted | 18:55 |
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| ayoung_ | this is what the operators want | 18:55 |
| gyee | #vote yes | 18:55 |
| ayoung_ | at least give it to them experimental | 18:55 |
| dstanek | i'm worried about the new cache table and the logic surrounding refreshing | 18:55 |
| morgan | ayoung_: i disagree this is what "operators want" it was a "oh sure that | 18:55 |
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| samueldmq | dstanek, I removed that, we are accepting inconsistencies when updates occur | 18:55 |
| amakarov | ayoung_, so we | 18:55 |
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| samueldmq | dstanek, as we discussed before | 18:55 |
| morgan | Might be nice" when asked at the ops midcycle | 18:55 |
| ayoung_ | morgan, horsepocky | 18:55 |
| morgan | But not "omg we need that" | 18:55 |
| stevemar | #vote no | 18:55 |
| amakarov | we'll have plenty bugs to solve and be respected for that )) | 18:55 |
| ayoung_ | the number ofthings that are limited by our RBAC implementation are growing | 18:56 |
| stevemar | there's still way too much disagreement about the direction here, and we would benefit from further discussion | 18:56 |
| ayoung_ | we need to start making some progress | 18:56 |
| morgan | #vote no | 18:56 |
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| * ayoung_ ragequite | 18:56 | |
| ayoung_ | note not quit | 18:56 |
| ayoung_ | just quite rageful | 18:56 |
| stevemar | ayoung_: FWIF you are slowly convincing me | 18:56 |
| samueldmq | henrynash, htruta sorry for the timing | 18:56 |
| stevemar | FWIW* | 18:56 |
| dstanek | ayoung_: i thought that was supposed to be ragequiet | 18:56 |
| henrynash | #vote no | 18:57 |
| stevemar | quietly rage | 18:57 |
| ayoung_ | FWTF | 18:57 |
| htruta | samueldmq: that's ok | 18:57 |
| topol | #vote no | 18:57 |
| ayoung_ | actually...I am starting to rethink deploying hierarchical roles in the token | 18:57 |
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| ayoung_ | that might actually be the better solution | 18:57 |
| lhcheng | #vote no | 18:57 |
| ayoung_ | implied roles | 18:57 |
| lbragstad | #vote no | 18:57 |
| ayoung_ | but...I'll save that for later | 18:58 |
| dstanek | last call for votes.... | 18:58 |
| samueldmq | dstanek, k ... should be enough for now | 18:58 |
| dstanek | #endvote | 18:58 |
| openstack | Voted on "FFE for the policy over HTTP changes. allow it?" Results are | 18:58 |
| openstack | yes (3): ayoung_, gyee, samueldmq | 18:58 |
| openstack | no (8): dstanek, lhcheng, bknudson, lbragstad, topol, morgan, henrynash, stevemar | 18:58 |
| samueldmq | dstanek, would appreciate if we have some minutes to reseller | 18:58 |
| samueldmq | ok guys, postpone was the decision | 18:58 |
| dstanek | we have slightly less than 2... | 18:58 |
| samueldmq | thanks :) | 18:58 |
| dstanek | #topic Reseller | 18:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reseller (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:58 | |
| dstanek | if we have the time...... | 18:58 |
| htruta | I'd just like to question if it is reasonable to have an FFE | 18:59 |
| dstanek | henrynash, htruta maybe we should move this to -keystone | 18:59 |
| henrynash | htruta: it just seems TOO much code | 18:59 |
| raildo | dstanek: ++ | 18:59 |
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| htruta | if it isn't I suggest we decide a cut point at the reseller chain that does not break people | 18:59 |
| htruta | dstanek: sure | 18:59 |
| dstanek | ok, we're out of time.... lets discuss in our own channel | 19:00 |
| dstanek | #endmeeting | 19:00 |
| lbragstad | thanks all | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 8 19:00:07 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-09-08-18.01.html | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-09-08-18.01.txt | 19:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-09-08-18.01.log.html | 19:00 |
| samueldmq | thanks | 19:00 |
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| Clint | o/ | 19:00 |
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| jeblair | howdy infras | 19:00 |
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| clarkb | hello | 19:00 |
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| fungi | w00t! | 19:00 |
| yolanda | o/ | 19:00 |
| jesusaurus | hullo | 19:00 |
| docaedo | o/ | 19:01 |
| mmedvede | o/ | 19:01 |
| pleia2 | o/ | 19:01 |
| rfolco | hi | 19:01 |
| pabelanger | o/ | 19:01 |
| ianw | o/ | 19:01 |
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| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 8 19:01:30 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #link previous meeting http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-09-01-19.01.html | 19:01 |
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| jeblair | #topic Specs approval: Artifact Signing Toolchain (fungi) | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval: Artifact Signing Toolchain (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| jeblair | #link Artifact Signing Toolchain https://review.openstack.org/213295 | 19:02 |
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| mordred | o/ | 19:02 |
| jhesketh | o/ | 19:02 |
| jeblair | fungi warned us this would be coming up this week :) | 19:02 |
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| fungi | i've addressed everyone's comments so far, so assumed it was time to punt it to a vote | 19:02 |
| mordred | I, for one, welcome our Artifact Signing overlords | 19:02 |
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| fungi | just a reminder, this is only securing one piece of the publication chain, but i'm trying to leave it open to flexible solutions for the other parts later | 19:03 |
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| jeblair | ++ | 19:03 |
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| fungi | primarily this should make post-publication tampering obvious | 19:03 |
| anteaya | you are so accomodating that way | 19:03 |
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| jasondotstar | o/ | 19:04 |
| * jhesketh has had it on his review radar but hasn't had a chance yet. I'll do that today (more than happy to see it go to vote) | 19:04 | |
| fungi | anyway, i have nothing really to say which isn't already said in that change | 19:04 |
| jeblair | no one is screaming, so let's put it to a vote! | 19:04 |
| mmmpork | o/ | 19:04 |
| jeblair | #info Artifact Signing Toolchain voting open until 2015-09-10 19:00 UTC | 19:04 |
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| fungi | thanks! | 19:05 |
| anteaya | thank you | 19:05 |
| jeblair | fungi: thank you! | 19:05 |
| jeblair | #topic Schedule Project Renames | 19:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Schedule Project Renames (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:05 | |
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| ociuhandu | o/ | 19:05 |
| jeblair | we have some renames scheduled for friday | 19:05 |
| anteaya | I've created an etherpad to organize the patches for friday | 19:05 |
| fungi | thanks anteaya!!! | 19:05 |
| pleia2 | thanks anteaya | 19:05 |
| fungi | link? | 19:05 |
| jasondotstar | nice | 19:05 |
| anteaya | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/project-renames-Septemeber-2015 | 19:05 |
| anteaya | who wants to drive the renames | 19:05 |
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| pleia2 | oh good, ansible is on there this time :) | 19:06 |
| anteaya | I'll co-ordinate with whoever drives | 19:06 |
| anteaya | I can do the legwork and get them into shape | 19:06 |
| anteaya | when are we no longer accepting additions to the list | 19:06 |
| anteaya | so I can start the rebases | 19:06 |
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| fungi | it went well the last time i wasn't involved, so i'm happy to see another infra root who isn't me take point, but can if there are no volunteers | 19:06 |
| anteaya | fungi: ha ha ha | 19:07 |
| anteaya | pleia2: I'm going with you are a bit frazzled with last week and zanata | 19:07 |
| mordred | I may be around - or I may be stupid jetlagged and asleep - or I may be stupid jetlagged and AWAKE | 19:07 |
| mordred | so consider me a wildcard bonus | 19:07 |
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| * fungi doesn't want to steal maintenance opportunities from new recroots | 19:07 | |
| mordred | fungi: ++ | 19:07 |
| anteaya | jhesketh: driven a rename yet? | 19:07 |
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| anteaya | jhesketh: it's lots of fun | 19:07 |
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| jasondotstar | does it have to be a root? | 19:07 |
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| anteaya | and you will get help | 19:08 |
| anteaya | jasondotstar: yes | 19:08 |
| jeblair | anteaya: we did schedule it for jhesketh's saturday morning | 19:08 |
| pleia2 | anteaya: yeah, I can help but I probably shouldn't be driver this time | 19:08 |
| jasondotstar | anteaya: ack. | 19:08 |
| anteaya | jhesketh: what a fun way to spend a saturday | 19:08 |
| anteaya | :) | 19:08 |
| pleia2 | lol | 19:08 |
| fungi | go ahead and put me down to coordinate | 19:08 |
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| pleia2 | thanks fungi | 19:08 |
| anteaya | fungi: thanks | 19:08 |
| anteaya | I'll get it in shape so you can push go | 19:08 |
| clarkb | sorry I am here and intend on being there | 19:08 |
| clarkb | if fungi wants a break I can drive | 19:08 |
| jeblair | i will also be around | 19:08 |
| jhesketh | No I haven't yet. But I'll be travelling to the QA sprint from Friday | 19:09 |
| anteaya | fungi: I'll will let you do your own etherpad with the db changes and steps and so on | 19:09 |
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| anteaya | jhesketh: ah that's right | 19:09 |
| jhesketh | (everything takes so long to get to from here!) | 19:09 |
| anteaya | or clarkb | 19:09 |
| anteaya | jhesketh: ha ha ha | 19:09 |
| jhesketh | Otherwise would love to help | 19:09 |
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| anteaya | so the expected renames, two are not in governance | 19:09 |
| anteaya | move them to the stackforge wikipage? | 19:10 |
| anteaya | other action? | 19:10 |
| jeblair | anteaya: sounds good to me | 19:10 |
| fungi | i think we decided we don't want to incorporate non-big-tent renames in this maintenance, so yeah | 19:10 |
| anteaya | okey dokey I will move them | 19:10 |
| anteaya | and try to track down the patch author if possible | 19:10 |
| anteaya | no promisies though | 19:11 |
| anteaya | that's all from me on this | 19:11 |
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| jeblair | regarding oct 17; what needs to be done? probably an analysis of how many projects are on the lists.... | 19:11 |
| jeblair | and then writing some scripts to automate the actual change.... | 19:11 |
| anteaya | I can start an etherpad on that to co-ordinate | 19:12 |
| jeblair | mordred: think we can ansible it? | 19:12 |
| fungi | which will become immediately out of date within hours, but is probably at least good for an estimate | 19:12 |
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| anteaya | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Stackforge-Namespace-Retirement | 19:13 |
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| mordred | jeblair: we can ansible it | 19:13 |
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| jhesketh | We can ansible anything? :-) | 19:13 |
| mordred | there is a WIP patch up if anyone want to help me test it | 19:13 |
| anteaya | mordred: link? | 19:13 |
| jeblair | mordred: should we try it friday? | 19:13 |
| mordred | one sec- link coming | 19:13 |
| anteaya | I'll add it to the etherpads | 19:13 |
| fungi | i would like to see it at least get a test drive before we use it on potentially hundreds of repos at once | 19:14 |
| * anteaya agrees with fungi | 19:14 | |
| jhesketh | I like the idea of the trying it | 19:14 |
| jasondotstar | fungi: +1 | 19:14 |
| mordred | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/105057/3/modules/openstack_project/files/ansible/rename.yaml | 19:14 |
| jhesketh | +1 | 19:14 |
| fungi | though that implies more mordred involvement in the maintenance window this week... were you planning to be around? | 19:14 |
| mordred | would be great to get other eyes/hands on that _before_ friday | 19:14 |
| anteaya | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/105057/3 | 19:14 |
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| anteaya | needs a bit of love | 19:15 |
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| mordred | fungi: _maybe_ - I will have just travelled to europe, so I'm not sure what my level of brain vs. jetlagbrain will be | 19:15 |
| mordred | so I'm not comfortable being counted on for important decision making | 19:15 |
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| fungi | mordred: sounds like your usual shrödinger's brain conundrum | 19:15 |
| anteaya | anyone able to spend time on this patch working with mordred before friday? | 19:16 |
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| mordred | but if someone else is interested in the topic - I'd be thrilled to connect this week before friday on looking at the playbook and stuff | 19:16 |
| jeblair | this is a good opportunity for a non-root to pitch in on the rename if they are familiar with ansible and/or can be around friday | 19:16 |
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| mordred | (also, I tink that playbook needs to be rewritten a little bit) | 19:16 |
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| mordred | as it should probably have several places where it iterates over a list of dicts - but whoever is interested we can chat about that | 19:17 |
| Clint | i'm intrigued by the juxtaposition of -rf and -fr | 19:17 |
| anteaya | I will if noone else will but not sure if I can finish it by friday | 19:17 |
| clarkb | mordred: its also easy enough to iterate in bash | 19:17 |
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| clarkb | mordred: in fact I find that is preferable to me based on the d-g work | 19:17 |
| fungi | really, the biggest benefit would be github automation | 19:17 |
| clarkb | ansible is bad at branching logic | 19:17 |
| anteaya | fungi: so focus on getting the github pieces to work first? | 19:18 |
| jasondotstar | jeblair: I can help w/ that (the non-root activities) | 19:18 |
| fungi | moving directories on the filesystem and updating database tables takes nearly 0 time and effort to custom-automate | 19:18 |
| clarkb | fungi: I don't think the current change talks to github | 19:18 |
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| clarkb | also doesn't talk to the db | 19:18 |
| mordred | clarkb: actually no | 19:18 |
| anteaya | but github still requires renaming via the gui, yes? | 19:18 |
| mordred | I tink you want to iterate in ansible very specifically | 19:18 |
| mordred | but we can have that argument later | 19:18 |
| jeblair | last i checked the github api didn't expose the transfer function | 19:18 |
| fungi | i've actually stopped generating database and filesystem update commands manually anyway | 19:19 |
| mordred | (there is no branching logic needed in this playbook) | 19:19 |
| clarkb | mordred: there is if its a transfer vs rename | 19:19 |
| clarkb | mordred: for github | 19:19 |
| mordred | there is no github api support for renames | 19:19 |
| clarkb | but I think thats the only place that cares | 19:19 |
| mordred | so it doesn't matter | 19:19 |
| jeblair | someone should double check that though | 19:19 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:19 |
| anteaya | great, the biggest piece we need automated | 19:19 |
| fungi | got it. and yeah that's going to be the time-consuming part for "the big rename" | 19:19 |
| clarkb | that really ruins the benefits of automating this imo | 19:19 |
| clarkb | right | 19:20 |
| clarkb | anyways | 19:20 |
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| mordred | I feel like I have a much better version of that somewhere too | 19:20 |
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| jeblair | i have no script to do any of this. i think it's great that fungi has a script to do part of it. but really it would be awesome if as much as possible were automated and checked into system-config. | 19:20 |
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| pabelanger | sorry, irc proxy died | 19:20 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 19:21 |
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| jeblair | and yeah, a lot of it could be done in bash, but we know that there are cross-host coordination issues, so at least orchestrating it should be in ansible (even if it ends up calling bash) | 19:21 |
| clarkb | jeblair: I am not suggesting it be done in bash | 19:21 |
| anteaya | if folks can add bits to https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Stackforge-Namespace-Retirement I will do my best to summarize | 19:21 |
| clarkb | jeblair: I was merely saying instead of passing in a giant hash of projects that ansible should do in one go we can exec ansible many times for each project | 19:21 |
| jeblair | clarkb: sure, as long as we only reindex once. | 19:22 |
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| mordred | and I'm saying that I believe that's missing the point of ansible and we might as well just use bash and some ssh commands | 19:22 |
| mordred | and that this is a bounded enough problem that learning how to actually use the tool would be great | 19:23 |
| clarkb | ya we don't need to argue this here, its just a thing I have observed when trying to condense d-g further | 19:23 |
| mordred | agree | 19:23 |
| clarkb | it becomes almost unreadable as soon as ansible is encoding logic | 19:23 |
| fungi | yeah, the cross-host orchestration part does make this tempting | 19:23 |
| jeblair | who wants to double check the github api? | 19:23 |
| clarkb | jeblair: I can look at that today | 19:24 |
| mordred | clarkb: I tnk the d-g mix gets worse as we do more complex playbook things for sure | 19:24 |
| jeblair | #action clarkb see if github api supports transfers yet | 19:24 |
| jeblair | #action mordred look into better version of https://review.openstack.org/105057 or improve it | 19:24 |
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| jeblair | #action jasondotstar help mordred with ansibly things | 19:24 |
| jeblair | anything else? | 19:25 |
| anteaya | just are we having a cut off for adding projects to friday's list | 19:25 |
| jeblair | anteaya: is friday morning enough time for you? | 19:26 |
| anteaya | it will be | 19:26 |
| anteaya | thank you | 19:26 |
| anteaya | what utc time is friday morning? | 19:26 |
| * mordred wishes he could find his better version he already wrote :( | 19:26 | |
| asselin_ | o/ | 19:26 |
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| fungi | anteaya: i would just pick a time before you expect to sit down at your computer | 19:27 |
| anteaya | before 1300 utc | 19:27 |
| jeblair | #info cutoff for friday renames friday 1300 utc | 19:27 |
| anteaya | thank you | 19:27 |
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| jeblair | #action anteaya prepare rename patches for friday renames | 19:27 |
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| jeblair | anteaya: thank you | 19:27 |
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| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Migration to Zanata) | 19:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Migration to Zanata) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:28 | |
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| jeblair | this is, like, imminent, yeah? | 19:28 |
| fungi | it's upon us | 19:28 |
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| anteaya | a few hours from now I think | 19:28 |
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| jeblair | is there an etherpad or something? | 19:28 |
| pleia2 | tonight! https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zanata-deploy | 19:28 |
| fungi | it's now imminent and will soon be eminent | 19:28 |
| jeblair | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zanata-deploy | 19:29 |
| anteaya | can standers by be of any use? | 19:29 |
| anteaya | or should I stand back in awe? | 19:29 |
| jeblair | heh, stand by or stand back. | 19:29 |
| pleia2 | we'll be doing some testing once we complete all the steps in the etherpad | 19:30 |
| pleia2 | may be useful to have a few folks around to log in and poke at things a little, but not required | 19:30 |
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| fungi | that's verging into drinkytime for me, so i'll pitch in on anything i am unlikely to be able to break | 19:30 |
| anteaya | heh | 19:30 |
| jeblair | i have a meatspace commitment so probably can't be around for most of it :( | 19:31 |
| pleia2 | always fun with time zones for translations things | 19:31 |
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| anteaya | I can do the poking at things | 19:31 |
| anteaya | wooo time zones | 19:31 |
| pleia2 | I think we're pretty much all set though | 19:31 |
| anteaya | yay | 19:31 |
| anteaya | good work all | 19:31 |
| clarkb | it would likely be good for infra roots to login sometime soon so we can bump their privs | 19:31 |
| jeblair | pleia2: cool, thanks! | 19:31 |
| clarkb | by soon I mean after it all heppns | 19:31 |
| jeblair | oh ok. | 19:31 |
| mordred | clarkb: so not soon like right now | 19:31 |
| * jeblair closes tab | 19:32 | |
| anteaya | ha ha ha | 19:32 |
| * mordred backs away from the zanata | 19:32 | |
| pleia2 | mordred: it's ok, you have one :) | 19:32 |
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| clarkb | well now would be fine too since we are moving the users | 19:32 |
| jhesketh | I'll be around if needed | 19:32 |
| clarkb | but I don't think it needs to happen yet if you want to do other things | 19:32 |
| pleia2 | thanks jhesketh | 19:32 |
| anteaya | jhesketh: yay | 19:32 |
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| fungi | huh... so its openid integration is... interesting | 19:33 |
| fungi | anyway, done | 19:33 |
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| jhesketh | I'm hoping I'm not needed though because I'm not that familiar with the work | 19:33 |
| jeblair | fungi: ? | 19:33 |
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| jeblair | fungi: what's interesting about it? | 19:33 |
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| fungi | it doesn't actually ask the openid server for name, e-mail address, et cetera | 19:34 |
| fungi | just re-prompts for them | 19:34 |
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| fungi | something which can probably be improved later | 19:34 |
| jeblair | oh, interesting. and indeed, you said it was interesting. | 19:34 |
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| pleia2 | we were just satisfied with "it actually works" for now | 19:34 |
| jeblair | i shoulda just believed you. | 19:34 |
| fungi | pleia2: totally | 19:35 |
| fungi | i would have been too | 19:35 |
| anteaya | pleia2: yay it works | 19:35 |
| pleia2 | (it did require an openstackid patch to get this far) | 19:35 |
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| fungi | anyway, i seem to be account 433 | 19:35 |
| anteaya | lucky you | 19:35 |
| fungi | it's prime | 19:36 |
| jeblair | sounds like we're set; pleia2: thanks again! | 19:36 |
| pleia2 | fungi: oh, translate or translate-dev? | 19:36 |
| anteaya | ha ha ha | 19:36 |
| fungi | and has digits which add up to 10 | 19:36 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Maniphest) | 19:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Maniphest) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:36 | |
| fungi | pleia2: oh, good point, i logged into production. i guess that won't do any good | 19:36 |
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| jeblair | mordred: what's the scoop here? | 19:36 |
| pleia2 | fungi: right, we're moving stuff from -dev (and dropping all else) | 19:36 |
| mordred | so ... | 19:37 |
| mordred | I need some help | 19:37 |
| * fungi just realized that when you asked | 19:37 | |
| mordred | next step on this is for $someone to stand up a maniphest $somewhere with cauth configured in apache in front of it | 19:37 |
| mordred | this will involve $someamount of figuring out exactly what's needed to get that to happen | 19:38 |
| Clint | what happened to mhu? | 19:38 |
| mordred | but is a pre-req for encoding that in puppet | 19:38 |
| jeblair | mordred: have the necessary changes to cauth itself to support openid happened? | 19:38 |
| mordred | Clint: mhu wrote the openid support into cauth for us - is he also planning on helping with the puppeting of the cauth interation? | 19:38 |
| mordred | jeblair: yes | 19:38 |
| Clint | mordred: http://docs-draft.openstack.org/72/219372/5/check/gate-infra-specs-docs/625a32a//doc/build/html/status/maniphest.html | 19:38 |
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| Clint | unless i halucinated that | 19:38 |
| mordred | oh! neat! | 19:38 |
| mordred | then maybe I do _not_ need help | 19:39 |
| Clint | l | 19:39 |
| jeblair | mordred: or more correctly, maybe you already have it! | 19:39 |
| mordred | in any case- that is the current thing this is waiting on | 19:39 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 19:39 |
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| fungi | you already have that which you seek! | 19:39 |
| anteaya | who has contact with mhu? | 19:39 |
| jeblair | Clint: what timezone is mhu in? and do they irc? | 19:39 |
| anteaya | does he know about infra meetings? | 19:39 |
| anteaya | he/she | 19:40 |
| Clint | i'm guessing he's in europe, and he's in #openstack-infra | 19:40 |
| jeblair | cool, we should ask him to lurk in -meeting | 19:40 |
| anteaya | I just pinged in -infra | 19:40 |
| jeblair | Clint, mordred: i feel like "hey we linked to a web page that shows someone is working on this" is an outcome second only to "oh this has already been done". | 19:41 |
| ttx | mordred: hah, the death of your Phab instance means my mockup for task tracking is no longer up :/ | 19:42 |
| ttx | The one in case (3) at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Phabricator | 19:42 |
| jeblair | Clint, mordred: so... cool. :) | 19:42 |
| * ruagair is fashionably late | 19:42 | |
| Clint | jeblair: to be fair, it shows that two other things aren't being worked on | 19:42 |
| mordred | ttx: oops | 19:42 |
| jeblair | Clint: yah.... #3 looks like it has #1 as a prereq, yeah? | 19:43 |
| Clint | presumably | 19:43 |
| jeblair | mordred: ^? | 19:43 |
| mordred | yes | 19:43 |
| mordred | #3 has #1 as a prereq | 19:43 |
| jeblair | #2 is ripe for someone to pitch in on though. | 19:43 |
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| mordred | or might wind up being part of #1 (unsure) | 19:43 |
| mordred | #2 is great - it may require rooter collaboration | 19:43 |
| jeblair | for what? | 19:44 |
| mordred | since it involves someone importing storyboard dbs into a db, then running the migration script | 19:44 |
| jeblair | mordred: ah, providing a sb dump? | 19:44 |
| mordred | yeah | 19:44 |
| jeblair | i would be happy to hand a sb db dump to someone wanting to work on that. | 19:44 |
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| jeblair | probably just need to omit the auth tokens table. | 19:45 |
| Clint | are there success criteria for migration accuracy? | 19:45 |
| fungi | yeah, that's the only remotely sensitive bit in there | 19:45 |
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| mordred | Clint: I'd _love 100% accuracy | 19:45 |
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| clarkb | and if we can preserve the old bug numbers like we did with lp to sb that would be double awesome | 19:46 |
| mordred | so - honestly, this will involve the actor in question setting up a phab instance that they can run on top of the db (not that hard, there is puppet) so that the data in the UI can be verified | 19:46 |
| mordred | clarkb: the script currently does that | 19:46 |
| clarkb | yay | 19:46 |
| fungi | just like ragu... it's in there | 19:46 |
| mordred | the script shoudl mostly work | 19:47 |
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| jeblair | i think it would be swell if one of the new infra folk wanted to jump in on this. | 19:47 |
| mordred | however, last time I spot checked the UI, there seemed to be things missing - which might have been because I picked poor data to spot check - or that ther eis a bug in the script | 19:47 |
| jeblair | if you do, let me know. | 19:47 |
| mordred | things to look at especially are things with mutliple tasks | 19:47 |
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| jeblair | anything else on this? | 19:49 |
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| jeblair | #topic Open discussion | 19:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:50 | |
| tchaypo | jeblair: If one of the new infra people wants to jump in on this, I’m guessing they should ask in -infra if they need help getting started? | 19:50 |
| yolanda | so, i need extra help with reviews of puppet changes | 19:50 |
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| fungi | tchaypo: yes | 19:50 |
| yolanda | several of them waiting with a +2 | 19:50 |
| yolanda | and the patches i submit, normally only have +1 | 19:50 |
| clarkb | the git backends are now all centos7 | 19:50 |
| anteaya | clarkb: yay! | 19:51 |
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| yolanda | i'd like if more infra cores can give help on it, please | 19:51 |
| clarkb | just a general FYI and do mention weirdness if yo usee an | 19:51 |
| clarkb | I should probably make a new git.o.o at some point so we can stop centos6ing there too | 19:51 |
| mordred | yolanda: sorry - I said i'd do that and then I didn't | 19:51 |
| anteaya | clarkb: just what eantshev (?) mentioned on monday after the third-party meeting | 19:51 |
| yolanda | mordred, i was thinking about you, yes :) | 19:51 |
| clarkb | anteaya: unfortunately there really wasn't any info there and I was weekending | 19:51 |
| anteaya | clarkb: but fungi couldn't confirm weirdness in logs | 19:51 |
| anteaya | clarkb: /nod | 19:52 |
| clarkb | anteaya: the connection failed, but I didn't see any source IPs | 19:52 |
| yolanda | so more eyes are needed, so we can move these patches faster | 19:52 |
| clarkb | so hard to track down | 19:52 |
| * ruagair is interested Jeblair, tchaypo, just not fully functional this early. | 19:52 | |
| anteaya | clarkb: fair enough, that was all I have heard about though | 19:52 |
| yolanda | i also normally cannot approve due to the timezones, so i'll need extra help for approval as well | 19:52 |
| mmedvede | re f21 job stability, would it be a good idea to ask for the f21 job to be made voting on devstack project? I want to make sure before bringing it up in qa. It has been relatively stable recently. | 19:52 |
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| jeblair | ruagair, tchaypo: cool, i think mordred or i can help you bootstrap; chat with one of us in -infra when you're ready | 19:53 |
| clarkb | mmedvede: I think thats purely a question for qa | 19:53 |
| fungi | also etherpad.openstack.org is running on ubuntu trusty with distro node.js packages, latest etherpad develop branch tip and websockets enabled. seems to be performing well now, but please report any strangeness there! | 19:53 |
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| clarkb | mmedvede: we run the jobs, whether or not qa wants it voting is up to them | 19:53 |
| anteaya | fungi jeblair thanks for fixing that this morning | 19:53 |
| ruagair | noted jeblair. | 19:53 |
| mordred | jeblair, ruagair, tchaypo: ++ | 19:53 |
| fungi | taron mentioned that there's a change in review which gets us closer to hound | 19:53 |
| mmedvede | clarkb: cool. I remember there was discussion in infra about f21 stability, that is why my question, thanks | 19:53 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/211640 | 19:53 |
| clarkb | mmedvede: also I think ianw and pabelanger are working to replace f21 with f22 whihc may or may not be a thing to consider | 19:53 |
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| pabelanger | also, centos7 firewalld is still failing. I think https://review.openstack.org/#/c/219031/ should fix that now | 19:54 |
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| clarkb | pabelanger: ianw ya I need to test that on hpcloud again | 19:54 |
| pabelanger | Ya, some dnf downloadonly issues still with fedora22 | 19:55 |
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| clarkb | pabelanger: ianw I will try that today, but it may take time as I haveto figure ut netowkring there each time I do it | 19:55 |
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| ianw | i think we can bring up f22 nodes, regardless of caching ATM, and work that out | 19:55 |
| pabelanger | Ya, was going to suggest that too | 19:55 |
| pabelanger | don't see many things using it right now | 19:56 |
| mmedvede | pabelanger: before f22 comes along, is it ok if I ask to make f21 voting (given it is stable)? | 19:56 |
| ianw | it would be better for us to be monitoring things like puppet4 compatability than waiting for perfection. | 19:56 |
| ianw | mmedvede: on what project? | 19:56 |
| mmedvede | ianw: on devstack | 19:56 |
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| pabelanger | mmedvede: I wasn't tracking devstack specifically. This was for some other reasons, -infra jobs maybe puppet | 19:57 |
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| mmedvede | ianw: pabelanger: my interest here is that we use f21 for our third-party CI, and making it vote at least on devstack would prevent some regressions | 19:57 |
| ianw | so i do not think we want it voting on devstack, because i don't think there are enough people to fix issues. if it breaks, and urgent devstack changes need to get through, we could be in a world of gate-pain | 19:58 |
| mmedvede | ianw: :( | 19:58 |
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| mmedvede | ianw: I might still ask in qa, just in case | 19:59 |
| sdague | mmedvede: also, f21 has been 100% fail on devstack for a while, so I'm not sure what your definition of stable is | 19:59 |
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| ianw | sdague: i believe afazekas has sorted that out | 20:00 |
| mmedvede | sdague: it has been good a couple of days #link http://ci-watch.tintri.com/project?project=devstack&time=7+days | 20:00 |
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| mmedvede | sdague: more time needs to pass though | 20:00 |
| jeblair | time is up | 20:00 |
| jeblair | thanks all! | 20:00 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 8 20:00:32 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-09-08-19.01.html | 20:00 |
| *** yolanda has left #openstack-meeting | 20:00 | |
| jhesketh | Cheers | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-09-08-19.01.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-09-08-19.01.log.html | 20:00 |
| mmedvede | thank you | 20:00 |
| sdague | mmedvede: http://tinyurl.com/nl6h752 - upstream | 20:00 |
| ttx | Anyone here for the TC meeting ? | 20:00 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 20:00 |
| lifeless | o/ | 20:00 |
| sdague | ttx: o/ | 20:00 |
| jaypipes | ...................o.../ | 20:01 |
| rhochmuth | o/ | 20:01 |
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| mordred | o/ | 20:01 |
| mordred | jaypipes: nice | 20:01 |
| annegentle | here | 20:01 |
| * edleafe admires jaypipes | 20:01 | |
| * jaypipes fell on floor and then raised hand. | 20:01 | |
| edleafe | all that running! | 20:01 |
| ttx | russellb, jgriffith, flaper87, dtroyer, jeblair, dhellmann: around ? | 20:01 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 20:01 |
| jeblair | ttx: o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 8 20:01:37 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:01 |
| * rockyg is shaking jaypipes' hand | 20:01 | |
| ttx | Agenda for this Technical committee meeting lives at: | 20:01 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:01 |
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| ttx | #topic Adding Monasca to OpenStack | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Adding Monasca to OpenStack (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/213183 | 20:02 |
| ttx | Two weeks ago we decided to table Monasca application for two weeks | 20:02 |
| ttx | In order for them to implement a few logistics change to further align with the OpenStack Way | 20:02 |
| ttx | But also to give some TC members more time to investigate how closely Monasca worked with Ceilometer and/or API overlap issues | 20:02 |
| jaypipes | "some TC members"? :) | 20:02 |
| ttx | >=1 | 20:02 |
| ttx | At this stage I'd say that while they were not exactly "one of us" in the past, they are now organized to be one of us in the future, and certainly feel responsive and motivated to do so | 20:02 |
| * mordred looks at jaypipes | 20:02 | |
| jaypipes | heh | 20:03 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:03 |
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| ttx | That leaves jaypipes's objections | 20:03 |
| edleafe | jaypipes: http://blog.leafe.com/establishing-apis/ | 20:03 |
| * dimsum__ sneaks in | 20:03 | |
| jaypipes | ttx: I agree that they are now organized to be one of us. | 20:03 |
| ttx | one is the question of compatible API between competing implementation of the same functionality, which arguably was never articulated before | 20:03 |
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| dtroyer | o/ | 20:03 |
| ttx | two is fairness in comparison of how Fuel / GBP were treated, asking for the same kind of delay to assess cooperation | 20:04 |
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| jaypipes | ttx: it was indeed brought up in the GBP big tent proposal, which I brought up in my latest comment. | 20:04 |
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| ttx | So I guess we should discuss both points | 20:04 |
| dhellmann | I tend to agree with jaypipes | 20:04 |
| ttx | do we want compatible APIs for competing implementation of the same functionality ? | 20:05 |
| mordred | for one - I think I do not care about the API overlap if the two are not claiming the same key in the new keystone catalog | 20:05 |
| dhellmann | I read the logs from the first irc meeting, and noticed early on a discussion of an in-person whiteboarding session being scheduled, which seemed ironic | 20:05 |
| edleafe | mordred: good point | 20:05 |
| dhellmann | but I also agree with mordred in that I don't think API overlap is an issue | 20:05 |
| mordred | if monasca has a pile of ceilometer's API but is also different in some ways BUT calls itself by a different catalog key - Im fine with it | 20:05 |
| flaper87 | mordred:++ | 20:05 |
| jaypipes | mordred: the key being claimed by monasca in the projects.yaml patch is "telemetry" | 20:06 |
| sdague | mordred: I agree with that, unless they are both trying to claim the same service catalog entry, same API seems weird | 20:06 |
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| dhellmann | the problem with GBP wasn't the API, it was that they had not been able to work with the other teams working on networking, and that's a much lower-level feature than monitoring | 20:06 |
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| mordred | jaypipes: is that the key they intend to have in the new world order of catalog with standards? | 20:06 |
| annegentle | do we have the Object Storage API implemented with ceph already? | 20:06 |
| ttx | dhellmann: so you would also ask for more time before reconsidering the application ? | 20:06 |
| dhellmann | ttx: yes, to see how the community thing works out | 20:06 |
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| ttx | Personally I'm on the fence. I think waiting for mitaka is fine | 20:07 |
| jaypipes | dhellmann: there was also a number of points raised by me and mestery around the GBP API essentially supplanting the OpenStack Network API. | 20:07 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann:++ | 20:07 |
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| mordred | because if that is the case, I would like to say "no" to similar but also different things claiming the same catalog id - that seems like road to insane | 20:07 |
| rhochmuth | i've left a lot of comments on why monasca isn't the same api as ceilometer | 20:07 |
| * flaper87 is catching up on the topic since he didn't attend the meeting where this was first discussed | 20:07 | |
| jaypipes | mordred: not sure. I suggested changing it to "monitoring" per rhochmuth's response to me about "what makes monasca different from ceilometer" | 20:07 |
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| annegentle | mordred: it would be crazy-making to have dupes in the catalog | 20:07 |
| flaper87 | so mostly speaking based on generic cases, tbh | 20:07 |
| rhochmuth | also, i've commented on the community and the number of organizations involved | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | jaypipes: right, if the rest of the community was not behind neutron, then I would support a competitor, but because there is support for neutron and it's a foundation piece I think the argument for duplication of feature set (not API, feature set) is a harder sell | 20:07 |
| sdague | jaypipes: I agree that the service catalog entry should be changed | 20:08 |
| ttx | jaypipes: in the GBP case there was the question of diluting a pretty fundamental project, which had questionable value for our users | 20:08 |
| rhochmuth | i already think we are part of the openstack community | 20:08 |
| mordred | rhochmuth: so, in short- you think monasca and ceilomter API are same or different? | 20:08 |
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| sdague | I also think that we should probably discuss monasca separate from GBP | 20:08 |
| rhochmuth | they are different | 20:08 |
| ttx | jaypipes: whereas in the monitoring game, multiple solutions are less likely to cause loss of value for our users | 20:08 |
| dhellmann | mordred, annegentle : yes, we can't allow dupes in the catalog, that would defeat the purpose of all of the consistency work being done there | 20:08 |
| rhochmuth | and the reasons have been documented | 20:08 |
| mordred | rhochmuth: great. are you planning on wanting the same keystone catalog id? | 20:08 |
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| jaypipes | ttx dhellmann: sure, fair points both. I just thought there was enough similarity here for a pause before fast-tracking. | 20:08 |
| dhellmann | jaypipes: ++ | 20:08 |
| rhochmuth | monasca is more than about monitoring of openstack resources | 20:08 |
| sdague | rhochmuth: the concern is L1194 here - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/213183/1/reference/projects.yaml,cm | 20:09 |
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| mordred | rhochmuth: so you would not register in the keystone catalog as "telemetry" - but as "monitoring"? | 20:09 |
| rhochmuth | it is also highly performance and in production today at scale | 20:09 |
| flaper87 | rhochmuth: I take that as a No to mordred's question | 20:09 |
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| ttx | jaypipes: I'm fine with a pause, I see no reason for fast-tracking. But we need to address the question of compatible APIs or not | 20:09 |
| rhochmuth | i would register as monitoring | 20:09 |
| * flaper87 phew | 20:09 | |
| mordred | rhochmuth: awesome. I'm sold | 20:09 |
| sdague | rhochmuth: ok, so you need to change L1194 then | 20:09 |
| jaypipes | rhochmuth: yes, that's what I figured, thus my comment on the projects.yaml file... | 20:09 |
| rhochmuth | originally when i wrote the submission i said monitoring | 20:09 |
| mordred | rhochmuth: I tink we need to ^^ that | 20:09 |
| flaper87 | mordred: ditto | 20:09 |
| rhochmuth | and changed to telemetry | 20:09 |
| rhochmuth | do be honest i don't know the difference | 20:09 |
| mordred | rhochmuth: sorry for the whiplash -let's change it back | 20:10 |
| rhochmuth | sure, i would chnage back | 20:10 |
| jaypipes | rhochmuth: thus my concern about overlapping APIs with the OpenStack Telemetry API ;) | 20:10 |
| mordred | rhochmuth: the thing is is related to a spec up by anne and sdague to get a consistent set of standards into the keystone catalog | 20:10 |
| dhellmann | rhochmuth: we don't want 2 projects using the same terminology there, because that's one of the key fields users have to tell projects apart | 20:10 |
| rhochmuth | i tend to use monitoring and telemetry interchangeably | 20:10 |
| mordred | rhochmuth: where we want to make sure we know what people are registering in the catalog as | 20:10 |
| ttx | ok, so it seems we have a clear answer on the compatible APIs question | 20:10 |
| annegentle | rhochmuth: yeah don't do that :) | 20:10 |
| jaypipes | ttx: :) | 20:10 |
| rhochmuth | ok, will switch to monitoring | 20:10 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: ++ | 20:10 |
| lifeless | rhochmuth: thank ou | 20:10 |
| ttx | the question of timing remains | 20:10 |
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| sdague | ok, so if this gets sorted, are there other pressing concerns? | 20:10 |
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| mordred | rhochmuth: in this case, it means that someone saying keystone.session.get_session_endpoint('telemetry') gets a ceilomter endpoint and ...('monitoring') gets monasca | 20:11 |
| jeblair | ttx: the answer is "we are okay with different apis for similar services as long as they have different names" ? | 20:11 |
| rhochmuth | sounds good to me | 20:11 |
| annegentle | I would like resolution on the multiple languages support and details of that scope before voting on monasca to be honest | 20:11 |
| flaper87 | I seem to remember from the logs that there were some concerns about some Java code... Am I mixing up things? | 20:11 |
| ttx | jeblair: seems to be | 20:11 |
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| rhochmuth | we actually want both ceilometer and monasca | 20:11 |
| dhellmann | sdague: well, I'd like to see the team actually be able to use the IRC meeting space, instead of immediately jumping to in-person and screen-sharing systems again (as was brought up in their first irc meeting) | 20:11 |
| annegentle | I'm not super comfortable with "we're Java now but we'll be Python on <timeline>" | 20:11 |
| jaypipes | sdague: my final comment was this, which AFAIK, remains unaddressed: "Finally, another condition we asked the Fuel project to meet was alignment of the continuous integration systems used in Fuel development with those of the upstream infra CI. Does the Monasca community have a plan/roadmap for aligning with the upstream CI systems, particularly for the remaining Java parts of the Monasca project? We asked Fuel to put t | 20:11 |
| jaypipes | his plan together. To not ask Monasca to do the same seems inconsistent to me." | 20:11 |
| dhellmann | rhochmuth: yes, I appreciate your comments clarifying that ceilometer is a source of input for monasca | 20:12 |
| flaper87 | annegentle: ah-ha, so I'm not crazy. I did read that on the logs | 20:12 |
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| flaper87 | :D | 20:12 |
| rhochmuth | in the first irc meeting, we held it completely in irc | 20:12 |
| rhochmuth | we had a performance issue that needed to follow-up | 20:12 |
| rhochmuth | we discussed with all in irc how to do that | 20:12 |
| mordred | jaypipes: totally. but I believe monasca has been doing 100% of its CI in upstream CI, so I think that bit is already done, no? | 20:12 |
| sdague | dhellmann: ok, I consider that a fair point | 20:12 |
| dhellmann | rhochmuth: yes, but one of the topics brought up was how to address an issue by having a separate meeting either in person or with screensharing, right? | 20:12 |
| rhochmuth | many of us or local to the denver region | 20:13 |
| mordred | jaypipes: (I agree it's inconsistent, I just don't think it's the case) | 20:13 |
| jaypipes | mordred: our upstream CI supports testing Java components? | 20:13 |
| mordred | jaypipes: yes | 20:13 |
| rhochmuth | so we did a face to face and had cisco tele conference in | 20:13 |
| jaypipes | ah, well awesome then. | 20:13 |
| jeblair | mordred, jaypipes, rhochmuth: it looks like there are both java and python unit tests, but i don't see integration tests, and of course the java tests hit the internet for deps. | 20:13 |
| dhellmann | "15:11:53 <rhochmuth> if it is just deklan and me, we could to a physical meeting, but if others want to be invovled, can do desktop sharing" from http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/monasca/2015/monasca.2015-09-02-15.00.log.html | 20:13 |
| jaypipes | jeblair: ty for that info, appreciated. | 20:13 |
| sdague | jeblair: right, but so does diskimage-builder, for instance | 20:13 |
| mordred | jeblair, jaypipes: yah - there are places we need to flesh out the awesome for sure | 20:13 |
| rhochmuth | so we are completely in irc, unless we need to use teleconferencing | 20:13 |
| annegentle | rhochmuth: and are docs sphinx/rst/wadl (tobeswaggersoon)? | 20:13 |
| mordred | sdague: we need to flesh out the awesome there too | 20:13 |
| flaper87 | does Monasca use rabbitmq ? | 20:13 |
| rhochmuth | which in this cases was required | 20:13 |
| sdague | so not hitting the internet is not just a sin of this project | 20:13 |
| rhochmuth | monasca doe not use rabbitmq | 20:14 |
| * flaper87 should dig into this | 20:14 | |
| mordred | sdague: we need tons more awesome :) | 20:14 |
| jeblair | so we've yet to have a java project volunteer to invest in fixing that | 20:14 |
| ttx | SO the remaining question is... do we consider that they are already "one of us" or could use more time to align, no need to hurry | 20:14 |
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| jeblair | sdague: yes, but dib folks are actively engaged in fixing that | 20:14 |
| flaper87 | rhochmuth: any messaging technology? | 20:14 |
| rhochmuth | we use kafka | 20:14 |
| jaypipes | jeblair: perhaps a member of the Monasca contributor team might provide that necessary help on the Java project front. | 20:14 |
| mordred | jaypipes: ++ | 20:14 |
| jeblair | jaypipes: i think that would be swell | 20:15 |
| rhochmuth | rabbitmq can not sustaing the perofmrance we need, it is not durable, it does not handle ha well | 20:15 |
| flaper87 | rhochmuth: gotcha | 20:15 |
| * mordred has heard that there are humans who would like to discuss making an oslo.messaging backend for kafka | 20:15 | |
| flaper87 | rhochmuth: not judging, just looking for some info :D | 20:15 |
| sdague | jaypipes: yeh, that would be the right place for that to come from, it sort of feeds into the lang support discussion | 20:15 |
| ttx | should we do a quick show of hands to solve that remaining question ? | 20:15 |
| dhellmann | ++ | 20:15 |
| flaper87 | mordred: yeah, there've been discussions since Atlanta | 20:15 |
| lifeless | ++ | 20:16 |
| sdague | right, I've heard tons of rumble about kafka, so having something regularly poking that in upstream CI would be really interesting | 20:16 |
| flaper87 | mordred: no one has step up for that yet | 20:16 |
| gordc | mordred: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/189006/ | 20:16 |
| mordred | gordc: well then! | 20:16 |
| jaypipes | ttx: you mean the question on CI alignment? | 20:16 |
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| jaypipes | ttx: or soemthing else? sorry, got lost here a bit. | 20:16 |
| flaper87 | ttx: go | 20:16 |
| sdague | ttx: yes, I'm not sure which question you are asking about | 20:16 |
| mordred | I'm not sure what I'm showing my hands on | 20:16 |
| * mordred waves hands just on general principle | 20:16 | |
| ttx | <ttx> SO the remaining question is... do we consider that they are already "one of us" or could use more time to align, no need to hurry | 20:16 |
| ttx | <ttx> should we do a quick show of hands to solve that remaining question ? | 20:17 |
| annegentle | more time seems helpfu | 20:17 |
| flaper87 | gordc: oh, I had missed that | 20:17 |
| annegentle | helpful even | 20:17 |
| sdague | ttx: well, I thought the hurry was whether or not they get any space in tokyo | 20:17 |
| mordred | ttx: I am comfortable with their level of one of us | 20:17 |
| annegentle | yeah let's not hurry due to a summit | 20:17 |
| rhochmuth | i don't need space tor tokyo | 20:17 |
| jaypipes | ttx: gotcha. well, I think it would be more consistent if we asked for a bit of a "prove yourselves" period, as we did with Fuel. | 20:17 |
| gordc | flaper87: it's been on and off. that said, i'm interested as well. | 20:17 |
| ttx | well, space was allocated last week, so it's too late to get "regular" space now | 20:17 |
| ddieterly | we are one of you | 20:17 |
| jaypipes | ttx: 2 months, maybe. | 20:17 |
| rhochmuth | will gladyl take spacei if available, but that isn't an issue to me | 20:17 |
| mordred | I'm not sure what I'd be asking them to do or how I'd judge it | 20:18 |
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| rhochmuth | what is the action that i'm supposed to work on for 2 months? | 20:18 |
| rhochmuth | would someone clarify this now? | 20:18 |
| mordred | rhochmuth: ++ | 20:18 |
| rhochmuth | 6 serious companies are working on this | 20:18 |
| dhellmann | rhochmuth: could you last 2 months with only video meetings? | 20:18 |
| rhochmuth | in is deployed in production | 20:18 |
| dhellmann | I mean only RIC | 20:18 |
| dhellmann | IRC | 20:18 |
| jaypipes | rhochmuth: I was looking for 8 unserious companies. | 20:18 |
| rhochmuth | there was no problems with last weeks irc | 20:18 |
| annegentle | rhochmuth: CI assignments, docs assignments? | 20:18 |
| rhochmuth | i actually enjoyed that | 20:19 |
| rhochmuth | has some advantages | 20:19 |
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| rhochmuth | like log files | 20:19 |
| mordred | logging ++ | 20:19 |
| rhochmuth | i think the meeting was productive | 20:19 |
| ttx | ok, let me start a quick show of hands poll for the TC members | 20:19 |
| ttx | #startvote Can Monasca be considered "one of us" now or should it be given a couple months, waiting for Mitaka to further align to OpenStack ways? now, mitaka, dunno | 20:19 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: Can Monasca be considered "one of us" now or should it be given a couple months, waiting for Mitaka to further align to OpenStack ways? Valid vote options are now, mitaka, dunno. | 20:19 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 20:19 |
| mordred | #vote now | 20:19 |
| jaypipes | #vote mitaka | 20:19 |
| ttx | #vote dunno | 20:19 |
| annegentle | #vote mitaka | 20:19 |
| sdague | #vote now | 20:19 |
| lifeless | #vote mitaka | 20:20 |
| dhellmann | rhochmuth: you haven't addressed my question about this part of the conversation: http://paste.openstack.org/show/450730/ | 20:20 |
| flaper87 | #vote mitaka | 20:20 |
| dhellmann | #vote mitaka | 20:20 |
| markmcclain | #vote mitaka | 20:20 |
| lifeless | #vote now | 20:20 |
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| ttx | #endvote | 20:21 |
| openstack | Voted on "Can Monasca be considered "one of us" now or should it be given a couple months, waiting for Mitaka to further align to OpenStack ways?" Results are | 20:21 |
| openstack | mitaka (5): annegentle, jaypipes, dhellmann, flaper87, markmcclain | 20:21 |
| openstack | now (3): mordred, lifeless, sdague | 20:21 |
| openstack | dunno (1): ttx | 20:21 |
| ttx | Looks like people are more comfortable tabling this for a couple months | 20:21 |
| jeblair | i think it would be good to see some engagement on the CI front -- both in supporting java infrastructure and some integration testing | 20:21 |
| rhochmuth | jeblair we are moving away from java | 20:21 |
| jeblair | then that part isn't so important :) | 20:21 |
| rhochmuth | and monasca is already in the ci/cd systems | 20:21 |
| jaypipes | perhaps we might invite rhochmuth and ddieterly to the TC meeting on Monday in Tokyo and hold an in-person vote for Monasca? | 20:21 |
| rhochmuth | we run unit tests | 20:21 |
| rhochmuth | ... | 20:22 |
| rhochmuth | what are we waiting for | 20:22 |
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| rhochmuth | not sure what is actionable on my part | 20:22 |
| dhellmann | unit tests are good, but I'm not seeing any integration test jobs | 20:22 |
| jeblair | rhochmuth: but there are no integration tests, right? | 20:22 |
| mordred | rhochmuth: I think getting some devstack integration tests owuld be nice - especeially if you've got kafka stuff - that would actually likely be helpful for the oslo.messaging kafka folks to build on | 20:22 |
| sdague | rhochmuth: right, integration tests seem kind of important | 20:22 |
| ttx | maybe those who voted "mitaka" in the poll could detail what they would like to see in the coming months | 20:22 |
| jaypipes | rhochmuth: time. trust. patience. | 20:22 |
| rhochmuth | we have an entire suite of tempest tests in a separate repo that we would merge | 20:22 |
| jeblair | probably something with a keystone service catalog entry ought to have an integration test | 20:22 |
| anteaya | jaypipes: well said | 20:23 |
| flaper87 | I'd personally like to see more interactions with the rest of the community, perhaps better CI (integration tests) | 20:23 |
| sdague | full stack testing in some regard at least | 20:23 |
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| ttx | Personally I'd like to see if the OpenStack ways work for you -- it's one thing to be forced to use IRC, it's another to come to appreciate what it brings you | 20:23 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: ++ | 20:23 |
| jeblair | rhochmuth: have a link to those tests or that repo? | 20:23 |
| anteaya | ttx agreed | 20:23 |
| ttx | it's perfectly fine to discover that it doesn't work for you | 20:24 |
| flaper87 | I think nothing bad will happen in the next couple of months, if anything it's just some extra time to migrate more of the code to python, integrate with other parts of the ocmmunity and CI | 20:24 |
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| flaper87 | so, I believe waiting is just for the better | 20:24 |
| flaper87 | other than that, I don't have anything against welcoming monasca in the big tent | 20:24 |
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| markmcclain | right and I since there's not an immediate pressing working a bit wider with CI, meetings makes sense before adding into tent | 20:25 |
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| ttx | so it looks like it won't gather the required votes today anyway | 20:25 |
| ttx | and this should be tabled until Mitaka starts, when we'll reconsider Fuel as well | 20:25 |
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| ttx | anyone else wanting to detail what they expect from Monasca between now and then ? | 20:26 |
| mordred | so - it might be good for one person to write up a $something that summarizes the above thoughts for rhochmuth ? | 20:26 |
| sdague | rhochmuth: do you feel like you have a handle on what's expected of your team? | 20:26 |
| rhochmuth | no, i do not know what you want | 20:26 |
| rhochmuth | more irc meetings??? | 20:27 |
| rhochmuth | more community | 20:27 |
| anteaya | rhochmuth: I think jaypipes made the point of patience | 20:27 |
| dhellmann | I think my concerns were included in those summaries: more meetings using tools the community can all use & integration test jobs | 20:27 |
| rhochmuth | do all the project that you've accepted have 6 companies working on it | 20:27 |
| markmcclain | ++ | 20:27 |
| jeblair | * an integration test (likely based on devstack and tempest, using plugins) | 20:27 |
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| jaypipes | rhochmuth: nope, that doesn't have anything to do with this vote result. | 20:27 |
| ttx | rhochmuth: I'd like to feel that you're one of us. Not that you're forced to adopt our ways to pass a bar | 20:28 |
| flaper87 | jeblair: ++ | 20:28 |
| lifeless | so | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | rhochmuth: the criteria we use to evaluate a project are listed at http://governance.openstack.org/reference/new-projects-requirements.html | 20:28 |
| lifeless | we don't have integration tests as a requirement in the governance | 20:28 |
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| rhochmuth | do all other projects have integration tests | 20:28 |
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| dhellmann | lifeless: The project has core reviewers and adopts a test-driven gate in the OpenStack infrastructure for changes | 20:28 |
| lifeless | have we uncovered another thing we should be requiring? | 20:28 |
| rhochmuth | anyway we have a suite of integration tests in a repo | 20:28 |
| jeblair | lifeless: it's true, however, this project, at the point it is in its development, should have one. | 20:28 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: yes, which it has | 20:28 |
| jeblair | lifeless: if it were a less mature project, i would not ask it to develop one first | 20:29 |
| lifeless | jeblair: so we wouldn't have asked for it if they'd become one-of-us earlier ?. I am confused. | 20:29 |
| sdague | rhochmuth: right, but most projects run those on every commit | 20:29 |
| rhochmuth | https://github.com/hpcloud-mon/monasca-tempest | 20:29 |
| sdague | definitely all the projects we consider mature | 20:29 |
| jaypipes | why is it so hard to ask for just time to pass so that we can see the new community processes/meetings/collaboration is not just all for show? | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | rhochmuth: are those in gerrit, too? | 20:30 |
| rhochmuth | no, we have not merged them with gerrit | 20:30 |
| sdague | jaypipes: well I think that letting time pass was agreed | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | jaypipes: yeah, that's my bigger concern | 20:30 |
| anteaya | jaypipes: I am really glad you have that position | 20:30 |
| sdague | I think the question is on other more concrete things | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | rhochmuth: are there other parts of monasca not in gerrit? | 20:30 |
| anteaya | jaypipes: you also mentioned trust earlier as well | 20:30 |
| jeblair | lifeless: i think for a project to get to this level of maturity and not have an uptream integration test shows that it was not developed as an openstack project. this is something specific to this project that needs to be remedied. | 20:30 |
| fungi | i have to concur, it seems odd for a "one of us" project to prefer to start developing their tests in a github repo | 20:30 |
| sdague | which did get brought up, the point of critical bits not in gerrit is good | 20:30 |
| flaper87 | jaypipes: dunno (?) | 20:30 |
| rhochmuth | all the source is in gerrit | 20:30 |
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| ttx | OK, we really need to write a more explicit response here | 20:31 |
| * flaper87 connection is lagging like crazy and he's not even on a plane | 20:31 | |
| rhochmuth | there are a bunch of repos for Ansible and side project not part of the core submission | 20:31 |
| ttx | any volunteer to draft that over the coming week ? | 20:31 |
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| dhellmann | rhochmuth: why aren't those part of the project? | 20:31 |
| flaper87 | I'm happy to collect it and report back to the review | 20:31 |
| dhellmann | I'll work with flaper87 | 20:31 |
| * flaper87 read ttx's mind | 20:31 | |
| jaypipes | flaper87: ty. | 20:31 |
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| flaper87 | dhellmann: danke! | 20:31 |
| flaper87 | jaypipes: np | 20:31 |
| rhochmuth | a tester developed the monasca tempest test and was unfamilier with next steps | 20:32 |
| dhellmann | and a late ++ to jeblair's comment | 20:32 |
| ttx | flaper87: awesome. Etherpad and -tc list should do | 20:32 |
| dhellmann | rhochmuth: ok. that does need to be addressed, though. | 20:32 |
| rhochmuth | the ansible is not part of gerrit, becuase it isn't really considered core | 20:32 |
| ttx | we need to move on | 20:32 |
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| ttx | #action flaper87 to draft a clearer response with TC expectations | 20:33 |
| ttx | #agreed Monasca application tabled until start of Mitaka cycle | 20:33 |
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| ttx | #topic Add team:danger-not-diverse tag | 20:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add team:danger-not-diverse tag (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:34 | |
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| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/218725 | 20:34 |
| annegentle | thanks flaper87 | 20:34 |
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| ttx | jogo proposed a tag to describe project teams that are "dangerously" not diverse. | 20:34 |
| flaper87 | annegentle: np :) | 20:34 |
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| ttx | I think that's a great data point to communicate out -- projects that rely on a single company or where only two companies are contributing are fragile | 20:34 |
| annegentle | I had a late "danger is judgemental" comment :) | 20:34 |
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| sdague | annegentle: I think judgemental is fine here | 20:35 |
| ttx | yeah, i think it's fine too | 20:35 |
| sdague | because this is really not a state we want any project to be in | 20:35 |
| ttx | consumers of the project should know that before they choose to invest in deliverables produced by that team | 20:35 |
| ttx | There are fragile (or already dead) projects in the big tent today | 20:35 |
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| dtroyer | a simple non-diverse would work too, but I agree the extra bit implied by danger is ok here | 20:35 |
| sdague | personally I probably would have dropped the 2 orgs at 95% bit | 20:35 |
| annegentle | sdague: danger to whom? Might be a sign that the project should break up anyway? fragile might be better | 20:35 |
| dhellmann | I think it's fine to say "danger" but I'm less comfortable assuming that lack of diversity is associated with a lack of desire for diversity, as is implied by line 14 | 20:35 |
| sdague | annegentle: dangerous to adopters | 20:35 |
| dhellmann | (of draft 4) | 20:35 |
| * jaypipes curious what benefit this explicit negative tag has versus just the absense of the diverse-affiliation tag | 20:36 | |
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| ttx | fragile-not-diverse ? | 20:36 |
| annegentle | sdague: ok | 20:36 |
| dhellmann | jaypipes: it identifies the other end of the spectrum | 20:36 |
| ttx | jaypipes: you may not have a divcerse affiliation, but still not be fragile | 20:36 |
| dtroyer | jaypipes: it's the red zone just before you run out of gas | 20:36 |
| annegentle | I think it's a valid measure | 20:36 |
| jeblair | dhellmann: i strongly endorse your objection. | 20:36 |
| jaypipes | dhellmann: by that token, should we add tags for "doesn't-assert-deprecation-policy"? | 20:36 |
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| ttx | jaypipes: well, that more binary | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | jaypipes: no, because that's a boolean. diversity is a float | 20:37 |
| ttx | dhellmann: ++ | 20:37 |
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| sdague | jaypipes: if you have a different set of labels to get 3 states here, those are welcomed | 20:37 |
| sdague | but this is a tristate, not a dual-state | 20:37 |
| jaypipes | dhellmann: I agree 100.0000028283 percent. | 20:37 |
| jeblair | jaypipes: and yes, i also wonder the same thing -- i thought when we added the 'diverse' tag that was sufficient. | 20:37 |
| angdraug | I thought tags were supposed to be boolean? | 20:38 |
| jeblair | sdague: what are the three states? | 20:38 |
| ttx | seriously, I think it's great that MagnetoDB gets the tag. It's pretty dead now that Mirantis seems to have pulled from it | 20:38 |
| jaypipes | angdraug: they were supposed to be, yes. | 20:38 |
| ttx | and if we had the tag before every consumer could have seen it coming | 20:38 |
| sdague | diverse-affiliation, none, diversity-danger | 20:38 |
| jaypipes | angdraug: either you have the tag, or you don't. | 20:38 |
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| sdague | it is not possible for 1 project to have both tags, it is possible for a project to have neither tag | 20:39 |
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| angdraug | why then should diversity be any special? either the project is diverse, or it's not, why add a third state of "kinda diverse but kinda not enough"? | 20:39 |
| sdague | so they are 2 binary tags, that together represent a tristate | 20:39 |
| jeblair | sdague: i'm not sure "low, medium, high" diversity helps me decide that something is well supported as much as "almost none, some" diversity. | 20:39 |
| jaypipes | this isn't quite like the ops "tags" stuff, where you have a value part like "packaged:76%" or something, but this is less than ideal, IMHO... more confusing than anything. | 20:39 |
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| ttx | those tags answer different questions. | 20:40 |
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| ttx | One says the project is produced by a diverse community | 20:40 |
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| ttx | $The other says the projecvt is at risk | 20:40 |
| sdague | honestly, I think this is hugely important to be explicit about the fact that we have a set of really healthy projects that clearly can handle one or more big players falling out | 20:40 |
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| angdraug | ttx: what's the value of the first one if not to mitigate the risk represented by the second one? | 20:40 |
| jeblair | sdague: me too, i consider that the diversity tag. | 20:40 |
| sdague | and on the other end a set of projects which are very clearly at the whim of a single orgs budge cycle | 20:40 |
| ttx | Every project that the tag is applied to is in danger of not being there tomorrow | 20:40 |
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| jaypipes | ttx: I disagree. One says the project is diverse or a project is not diverse. The other doesn't say something positive at all. | 20:41 |
| mordred | I think it's a trinary state which our tags don't show | 20:41 |
| jeblair | sdague: i guess i don't see the middle road as being not in danger. i think anything without the current diversity tag is in danger. | 20:41 |
| jaypipes | ttx: couldn't you say the same thing about any project without the diverse-affiliation tag? | 20:41 |
| mordred | the diversity tag has a much different threshold | 20:41 |
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| jeblair | i think any project without the diversity tag is unhealthy. i certainly thought that when infra lost it. | 20:42 |
| ttx | jaypipes: I think they are not indanger. They are not produced by a diverse community, but they shuold survive a given company pulling out | 20:42 |
| angdraug | jeblair: ++ | 20:42 |
| sdague | jeblair: infra is not going to collapse if a single org has a priority shift. cue will | 20:42 |
| sdague | as a for instance | 20:42 |
| sdague | that's a really concrete one | 20:42 |
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| jeblair | sdague: i'm worried about it. | 20:42 |
| ttx | jeblair: unhealthy doesn't mean in immediate danger of dying. | 20:42 |
| ttx | which is what I mean by answering two different questions | 20:42 |
| flaper87 | jeblair: ++ | 20:42 |
| mordred | perhaps if the tag was named non-negatively | 20:42 |
| ttx | sdague: ++ | 20:42 |
| annegentle | still points to "danger" and "fragile" as not really describing this | 20:43 |
| angdraug | Fuel is in no immediate danger of dying even though it's definitely a Mirantis monoculture | 20:43 |
| mordred | so that the meaning could be captured - but not with the negative voice? | 20:43 |
| sdague | jeblair: I agree that it's a concern, but it won't literally cease to exist if one of the orgs changes priorities in their annual budget review | 20:43 |
| jeblair | ttx: i think i'm starting to see where you and sdague are coming from. i think this may be a matter of audience. | 20:43 |
| ttx | angdraug: Fuel can die is a single person decides it. That is what I call "danger"; | 20:43 |
| flaper87 | mordred: ++ | 20:43 |
| jaypipes | angdraug: I think what folks are saying is that Fuel *is* in danger of dying if Mirantis goes belly up, simply because it is not a diverse affiliation. | 20:43 |
| sdague | we have a set of projects that will completely cease to exist if an exec at one org decides to move people around | 20:43 |
| jeblair | as a user, or even general observer of the project, i think my primary concern is whether a project is healthy (diverse) or not | 20:43 |
| mordred | jaypipes: yah. and we'd like for that not to be the case, beause fuel is pretty cool - as is cue | 20:44 |
| jeblair | sdague, ttx: i agree there is a further degree that you have articulated here, but what audience is that of use to? | 20:44 |
| flaper87 | while I understand the points behind flags being booleans, I also see how, in this specific case, it's useful to have it describing something else other than yes/no | 20:44 |
| mordred | jaypipes: so I tihnk what I'd like to communicate is "opportunity for other people to make a difference by getting involved" | 20:44 |
| sdague | jeblair: operators deciding to deploy a component | 20:44 |
| ttx | angdraug: MagnetoDB is in the bug tent, has the tag, was removed from Mirantis priorities apparently and is now a zombie project | 20:44 |
| jeblair | sdague, ttx: users should already have panicked based on not having diverse | 20:44 |
| sdague | and thus taking on support | 20:44 |
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| sdague | this is actually a question that gets asked | 20:44 |
| angdraug | given the amount of activity around Fuel and number of people using it, it's very likely that all that will be picked up by current users of Fuel even if Mirantis pulls out of it | 20:44 |
| jeblair | sdague: right, i guess i think that's the diverse tag. | 20:45 |
| jaypipes | mordred: well, branding a project with a negative "diverse-affiliation-danger" tag is unlikely to inventivize a project. negative incentives rarely work in the way that positive ones do, IME. | 20:45 |
| flaper87 | mordred: that's exactly what I "not so diverse but could be" state would mean to me | 20:45 |
| flaper87 | and I think we should have a way to express that | 20:45 |
| ttx | jeblair: I still think the projects the tag applies to are in more... immediate danger. | 20:45 |
| mordred | jaypipes: right. that's why I'm syaing we should hav ea better name | 20:45 |
| mordred | jaypipes: or whatnot | 20:45 |
| jeblair | sdague: are there really people willing to deploy something "somewhat non-diverse but not dangerously so"? | 20:45 |
| sdague | jeblair: yes, I think so | 20:45 |
| flaper87 | jeblair: I really hope there are | 20:45 |
| mordred | jaypipes: just I think the piece of information encoded is potentially useful in a positive way - I agree the name is incendiary | 20:45 |
| flaper87 | otherwise there's close to no chance for new projects to evolve and improve | 20:45 |
| flaper87 | i.e Zaqar | 20:45 |
| sdague | jeblair: because the option is "implement it yourself" | 20:45 |
| flaper87 | or Cue | 20:45 |
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| markmcclain | team:really-needs-contributors | 20:46 |
| jaypipes | heh | 20:46 |
| ttx | OK, looks like we can iterate a few times on the patch | 20:46 |
| ttx | We ahve a few other items to cover today | 20:46 |
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| dhellmann | looking at http://stackalytics.com/?project_type=all&module=monasca-group monasca would get this tag | 20:46 |
| sdague | dhellmann: yep | 20:46 |
| mordred | it took sometihng like 3 years before infra had humans working on it who weren't on my team ... and during that time we _constantly_ sounded the danger gong | 20:46 |
| jaypipes | yeah, I'm not 100% opposed to this tag or anything... just would like it to be positive rather than negative if possible. | 20:46 |
| dhellmann | so they have 6 companies, but HP is doing 90% of the review work | 20:46 |
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| sdague | in the old days we'd have rejected all these projects, in the new days I think it's fine to have them in, but just mark them as being really seriously in danger | 20:47 |
| jeblair | i'm okay with the negative but still wrapping my head around its utility. :) | 20:47 |
| ttx | sdague: ++ | 20:47 |
| sdague | and I think negative connotation is good here, as it makes people want to make it a priority to get out of that zone | 20:47 |
| jeblair | sdague: oh! | 20:47 |
| ttx | OK, let's move on, please comment on the review and talk to jogo directly | 20:47 |
| sdague | which hopefully leads them down a path to an actual diverse project | 20:47 |
| jaypipes | sdague: we'll agree to disagree on that motivator :) | 20:47 |
| markmcclain | jeblair: I look at as grading risk severity | 20:47 |
| jeblair | sdague: i think my biggest disconnect is that this makes "lack of diversity" seem less negative than i think it is. | 20:47 |
| mordred | jaypipes: I disagree about agreeing | 20:47 |
| jaypipes | lol | 20:48 |
| ttx | #topic OpenStack programming languages resolution | 20:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack programming languages resolution (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:48 | |
| jogo | ttx: just leave comments on the review, I am more async these days | 20:48 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/217710 | 20:48 |
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| ttx | We discussed this one last week. | 20:48 |
| ttx | I tweaked the initial proposal to remove language that sounded preemptively negative to language addition ("silo", "convenience"...) | 20:48 |
| mordred | jogo: are you more pinsync? | 20:48 |
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| jaypipes | jogo: don't you mean "pinsync"? | 20:48 |
| ttx | To cover annegentle's concerns I expanded on the "exception" clause, and to cover jeblair's concerns I removed the silly 2/3 vote clause | 20:48 |
| annegentle | heh you guys | 20:48 |
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| ttx | I think it's pretty neutral now: it opens the door and says "there are benefits and drawbacks, we'll consider it when it comes" | 20:48 |
| ttx | I see annegentle left a few comments earlier today | 20:49 |
| jogo | :) | 20:49 |
| jeblair | ttx: the requirement to use common sense seems daunting. | 20:49 |
| jeblair | ;) | 20:49 |
| flaper87 | I'm good with that resolution, I'm just waiting on the next version w/ fixes to annegentle's concerns | 20:49 |
| annegentle | ttx: what about the other side's benefits and drawbacks, each time I review this I keep thinking there's soo much overhead to being an OpenStack project, we should also document expectations for ci/docs/test/etc | 20:49 |
| mordred | annegentle: I think I want SDKs to submit if they want to submit - I'm not sure this resolution to me is about incentivizing or not incentivzing people to want to be here | 20:49 |
| sdague | ttx: so I guess lines 25-28 seem to beg "where is the list of current supported languages" | 20:49 |
| ttx | I'm fine with Anne's language suggestion for line 28 | 20:50 |
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| ttx | sdague: it's higher in the resolution | 20:50 |
| mordred | annegentle: but rather, for people who do want to be here, providing clarity on how we're going to think about that - and to let them know we welcome the theory but that there is work | 20:50 |
| sdague | ttx: so it should be probably called out directly | 20:50 |
| mordred | annegentle: (I agree, for a lot of them I bet they would not find it valuable and I do not expect to see them beating down our door) | 20:50 |
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| annegentle | it's completely insane to keep up seven languages for docs, ci, test, translation (believe me I know the SDK work_ | 20:50 |
| sdague | The currently supported languages in OpenStack are: bash, python, javascript | 20:50 |
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| ttx | OK, I can make a new patchset with that and Anne's new wording | 20:51 |
| ttx | sdague: could you please add it as a review comment so that I don't forget ? | 20:51 |
| sdague | yep | 20:51 |
| annegentle | mordred: right, so why would we encourage sdks to submit, only to unfurl a list of requirements a mile long? (I'm exaggerating, sure) | 20:51 |
| flaper87 | if we add a list of programming languages, we gotta make sure we keep it updated | 20:51 |
| ttx | annegentle: maybe cross that bridge when we get there ? | 20:51 |
| annegentle | and, how do we still encourage people to make SDKs for OpenStack | 20:51 |
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| flaper87 | I'm fined with either adding it or not, really. | 20:52 |
| ttx | flaper87: we'll probably have to have a reference document, this is a (dated) resolution | 20:52 |
| EmilienM | sdague: PuppetOpenStack + Infra modules are in Puppet+ruby | 20:52 |
| ttx | #action ttx to make another patchset | 20:52 |
| mordred | annegentle: I'm not sure we're doing that | 20:52 |
| ttx | EmilienM: they have an exception under the resolution | 20:52 |
| sdague | ttx: the exceptions should be called out explicitly as well then | 20:53 |
| mordred | annegentle: and we can't even get people to work on the existing python one inside of openstack - so I'm not even thinking about trying to get people to work on _other_ sdks in openstack | 20:53 |
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| annegentle | mordred: right | 20:53 |
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| flaper87 | EmilienM: the resolution is about services specifically | 20:53 |
| annegentle | flaper87: I think it should be, but is the language that way now? | 20:53 |
| flaper87 | mordred: true that | 20:53 |
| ttx | sdague: I don't think a resolution needs to call all the rules out. I added "let's use common sense", which means, we'll discuss it when it comes | 20:53 |
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| ttx | anyway, no time so let's move on | 20:54 |
| edleafe- | ttx: which also means that this document doesn't provide much information | 20:54 |
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| flaper87 | annegentle: that's how I read it or at least I think I did :P | 20:54 |
| flaper87 | annegentle: u messing with my weak brain? | 20:54 |
| flaper87 | :D | 20:54 |
| ttx | edleafe-: sure, it's just saying "bring it on, we'll discuss it", which is better than "meh, no idea if it's ok" | 20:54 |
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| ttx | #topic Applies naming guidelines to service object | 20:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Applies naming guidelines to service object (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:54 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/201670 | 20:54 |
| sdague | ttx: I guess, except I think we don't all agree on the costs vs. benefits here. common sense assumes we're all on the same page there | 20:54 |
| annegentle | flaper87: never :) | 20:54 |
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| ttx | This one seems ready | 20:55 |
| ttx | I'll approve it now | 20:55 |
| * flaper87 agrees | 20:55 | |
| flaper87 | ready, ship it. BAM! | 20:55 |
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| annegentle | woo! | 20:55 |
| ttx | #topic Creates labs project | 20:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Creates labs project (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:55 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/218346 | 20:55 |
| ttx | I added this one to the agenda because it raises an interesting question | 20:55 |
| ttx | We said repo additions are fine as long as the PTL wants it | 20:55 |
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| edleafe- | sdague: exactly | 20:55 |
| ttx | But usage of generic names in a single namespace (like "openstack/labs") stretches it | 20:55 |
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| ttx | I have two concerns: generic names can be a bit misleading: what if ceilometer wanted to get "openstack/documentation" for example ? | 20:55 |
| annegentle | yeah we have had multiple discussions :) | 20:55 |
| * flaper87 agrees w/ ttx's comment | 20:56 | |
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| ttx | the other is the potential consequence: the risk of a repo rename when we realize that was not such a good idea | 20:56 |
| annegentle | and I personally am not a fan of labs | 20:56 |
| annegentle | so he has brought it back to the -docs mailing list for more naming ideas | 20:56 |
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| dhellmann | these are labs for use during training exercises? | 20:56 |
| jeblair | ttx: i think bringing this for discussion was a good call, thank you. | 20:56 |
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| anteaya | I think jogo makes a good point | 20:57 |
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| annegentle | dhellmann: these are labs that follow the install guide so that trainers can use them for training classes at say user group meetings | 20:57 |
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| dhellmann | annegentle: ok. I suggest that the name include some form of "training" then, for enhanced clarity. :-) | 20:58 |
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| sdague | annegentle: so what's going to be in this repo? is it docs, or is it code like vagrant scripts? | 20:58 |
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| annegentle | dhellmann: also what I wanted :) | 20:58 |
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| anteaya | provide automated way of deploying a multi node OpenStack cluster | 20:58 |
| annegentle | sdague: it is scripts | 20:58 |
| ttx | annegentle: ok, so other names will be suggested ? | 20:58 |
| anteaya | automated | 20:58 |
| dhellmann | sdague: this seems to be related: http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/docs-specs/specs/liberty/openstacklabs.html | 20:58 |
| annegentle | ttx: already were :) | 20:58 |
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| flaper87 | annegentle: cool | 20:58 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: sdague: yes that's their blueprint | 20:58 |
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| ttx | ok, cool, I think we are good then. i'll freeze that one until we are ok it's less of a rename wanabee | 20:59 |
| sdague | annegentle: that doesn't have a lot of detail | 20:59 |
| jeblair | this seems really similar to devstack's reason for existing | 20:59 |
| sdague | yeh, or yet another installer. | 20:59 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:59 | |
| ttx | I skipped the workgroup reports, comms did a post last week | 20:59 |
| flaper87 | #link http://www.openstack.org/blog/2015/09/technical-committee-highlights-september-2-2015/ | 20:59 |
| ttx | and cross-project-track is still forming up | 21:00 |
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| ttx | and.. we are out of time | 21:00 |
| annegentle | sdague: agreed | 21:00 |
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| flaper87 | o/ | 21:00 |
| EmilienM | ttx: as usual :P | 21:00 |
| annegentle | tweet it! | 21:00 |
| annegentle | :) | 21:00 |
| ttx | Sorry that was a bit rushed, but those were all valuable and important discussions | 21:00 |
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| dhellmann | ++ | 21:00 |
| ttx | I should have seen they would overflow and schedule a little less | 21:00 |
| ttx | I guess I was fooled with how smooth difficult discussions have gone lately | 21:01 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 8 21:01:12 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-09-08-20.01.html | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-09-08-20.01.txt | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-09-08-20.01.log.html | 21:01 |
| dhellmann | thanks, everyone | 21:01 |
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| ttx | johnthetubaguy: floor is yours | 21:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | #startmeeting crossproject | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 8 21:01:38 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is johnthetubaguy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'crossproject' | 21:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | courtesy ping for david-lyle flaper87 dims dtroyer johnthetubaguy rakhmerov | 21:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | courtesy ping for smelikyan morganfainberg adrian_otto bswartz slagle | 21:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | courtesy ping for adrian_otto sdake kiall jeblair thinrichs stevebaker j^2 | 21:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | courtesy ping for docaedo mestery Daisy zigo Piet notmyname ttx mtreinish | 21:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | courtesy ping for isviridov gordc SlickNik cloudnull catherineD loquacities | 21:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | courtesy ping for thingee hyakuhei redrobot dirk TravT vipul emilienm | 21:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | courtesy ping for SergeyLukjanov devananda boris-42 nikhil_k | 21:01 |
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| *** _amrith_ is now known as amrith | 21:01 | |
| notmyname | here | 21:01 |
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| lifeless | ALL THE PINGS | 21:01 |
| gordc | o/ | 21:01 |
| EmilienM | o/ | 21:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting#Proposed_agenda | 21:01 |
| SheenaG | o/ | 21:01 |
| mestery | o/ | 21:01 |
| lifeless | johnthetubaguy: you missed me :) | 21:02 |
| elmiko | o/ | 21:02 |
| stevebaker | \o | 21:02 |
| edleafe- | o/ | 21:02 |
| Piet | here | 21:02 |
| bknudson | people don't have alarms? | 21:02 |
| dims__ | o/ | 21:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | lifeless: the tool missed you off, odd | 21:02 |
| * rockyg waves from the back | 21:02 | |
| EmilienM | lifeless: we always miss you, you must be absent from previous logs ;-) | 21:02 |
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| lifeless | EmilienM: nope, I've been here many times | 21:02 |
| bknudson | we need an infra job for this. | 21:02 |
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| docaedo | o/ | 21:02 |
| jungleboyj | o/ | 21:02 |
| sdake | o/ | 21:02 |
| bknudson | bot should handle it | 21:02 |
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| mordred | bknudson: could we write an infra job that can write the infra jobs we need? | 21:03 |
| jokke_ | o/ | 21:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | I use a script, so its almost there | 21:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | well use the script | 21:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyways | 21:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Review past action items | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review past action items (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:03 | |
| johnthetubaguy | dims to ping some nova cores about https://review.openstack.org/#/c/205931/ (change now approved) | 21:03 |
| philipw | o/o | 21:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | well merged actually | 21:04 |
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| johnthetubaguy | shamail barrett1 to share the link and people will let us know if they disagree with the current "prioritized" user story list. | 21:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | not sure if I saw that on the ML? | 21:04 |
| *** harshs has left #openstack-meeting | 21:04 | |
| johnthetubaguy | but I did see #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/openstack-user-stories/ | 21:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | the chair rotation list is full, so thats all good | 21:05 |
| * jroll a couple minutes late, oops | 21:05 | |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Team announcements (horizontal, vertical, diagonal) | 21:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Team announcements (horizontal, vertical, diagonal) (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:05 | |
| ttx | On the release management front | 21:05 |
| ttx | We tagged liberty-3 last week, we are now in: | 21:05 |
| ttx | * FeatureFreeze (features, new config options, database schema changes need exception to merge) | 21:05 |
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| bknudson | yeah! | 21:05 |
| ttx | * DepFreeze (addition of new dependencies or 3rd-party dependency bumps need exception to merge) | 21:05 |
| ttx | * StringFreeze (resist changing strings to facilitate the work of docs and I18N) | 21:05 |
| jungleboyj | Yay! | 21:05 |
| ttx | We also need to cut liberty release branches ("stable/liberty") for libraries asap | 21:06 |
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| ttx | That means you should make releases for recent client features if you haven't already... and we should cut the branches from there | 21:06 |
| bknudson | cap em! | 21:06 |
| jokke_ | \\o \o/ o// o/7 | 21:06 |
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| ttx | That doesn't mean it's the last liberty release for clients, you can still do bugfix releases if needed | 21:06 |
| ttx | But all features should be there | 21:06 |
| ttx | dhellmann sent a reminder: | 21:06 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-September/073686.html | 21:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | ttx: do you need the libs to help with the stable branch cutting, or are you just going to use the last tag? | 21:06 |
| stevebaker | I haven't seen a novaclient release for a while | 21:06 |
| ttx | johnthetubaguy: I'll be using the last tag | 21:06 |
| zigo | o/ | 21:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | ttx: cool | 21:07 |
| ttx | but that means you better do a tag if you want the current features in master to be used in the liberty line of the client | 21:07 |
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| ttx | otherwise that will make for a lot of backporting and exception fun | 21:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | ttx +1 | 21:07 |
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| jokke_ | ttx: when are you going to cut the branches? Tomorrow, by end of the week, something else? | 21:07 |
| ttx | see that thread I just linked to, dhellmann explained in much more eloquent wording than me | 21:08 |
| ttx | jokke_: end of week at this stage | 21:08 |
| jokke_ | thnx | 21:08 |
| ttx | we are a bit behind schedule | 21:08 |
| jokke_ | we try to get patch rel of glanceclient out before that then to avoid ton of backporting | 21:08 |
| zigo | If possible, it'd be nice to have oslo.FOO libs completely frozen a bit earlier than last cycle. | 21:08 |
| zigo | Otherwise, it's quite difficult to do enough testing of packages (ie: too much update work to be done...) | 21:09 |
| ttx | zigo: yeah, as I said we are a bit behind | 21:09 |
| dims__ | zigo: oslo.FOO with latest g-r is out this morning | 21:09 |
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| ttx | oslo should be done now | 21:09 |
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| ttx | anyway, that's all I had | 21:09 |
| ttx | questions? | 21:09 |
| mtreinish | I actually have something for this topic this week | 21:10 |
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| ttx | mtreinish: ooooh | 21:10 |
| fungi | the vmt coverage criteria are basically solidified after our -dev ml thread so i'll follow up with the governance addition in the next day or so | 21:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | mtreinish: sounds good | 21:10 |
| mtreinish | the tempest plugin interface is all ready to go now | 21:10 |
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| mestery | mtreinish: Coolio! | 21:10 |
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| mtreinish | manila started a gating job using tests via the plugin interface last week | 21:10 |
| mtreinish | and I pushed a tag to tempest to signify it's stability | 21:10 |
| bknudson | do you want all projects using plugins? | 21:11 |
| mtreinish | so project can go and add external test suites and have them act like part of tempest | 21:11 |
| bknudson | e.g., keystone | 21:11 |
| mtreinish | bknudson: keystone support is in the tempest tree | 21:11 |
| gordc | mtreinish: you have review handy just for reference? | 21:11 |
| mtreinish | I'd rather see tests contributed to tempest for that | 21:11 |
| mtreinish | gordc: for the manila plugin usage? | 21:11 |
| gordc | mtreinish: yep | 21:11 |
| mtreinish | gordc: sure one sec | 21:12 |
| mtreinish | gordc: https://review.openstack.org/201955 | 21:12 |
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| mtreinish | gordc: also: http://docs.openstack.org/developer/tempest/plugin.html | 21:12 |
| gordc | mtreinish: awesome. thanks very much! | 21:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | #link http://docs.openstack.org/developer/tempest/plugin.html | 21:12 |
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| johnthetubaguy | cool, any more for any more? | 21:13 |
| mtreinish | bknudson: fwiw, I have the list of what's supposed to be in the tempest tree here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/QA/Tempest-test-removal#Tempest_Scope | 21:13 |
| bknudson | so keystoneclient ? | 21:13 |
| mtreinish | bknudson: keystone client has it's own functional testing using tempest-lib already | 21:14 |
| mtreinish | tempest doesn't use the python-*clients | 21:14 |
| stevebaker | mtreinish: do you see out-of-tree defcore tests being a thing? | 21:14 |
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| mtreinish | stevebaker: the vision I had was things that were in defcore would be in the tempest tree, and we'd adjust the scope to match as things were added | 21:14 |
| stevebaker | ok | 21:15 |
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| mtreinish | but if we end up hitting the same scaling problems because defcore tries to tackle too many things (like we once did in tempest) then the plugin interface gives us a good crutch | 21:15 |
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| rockyg | thanks, mtreinish! Can I invite you to give your vision to a defcore meeting? | 21:16 |
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| johnthetubaguy | OK, lets move on | 21:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Base feature deprecation policy | 21:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Base feature deprecation policy (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:17 | |
| mtreinish | rockyg: sure you can invite me, but I'm not sure I'll be able to make it :) | 21:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-September/073576.html | 21:17 |
| ttx | I sent an email about our base feature deprecation policy last week | 21:17 |
| ttx | link above | 21:17 |
| ttx | The goal was to check if the proposed base policy was matching what was generally done in the field | 21:17 |
| ttx | I had a few answers, but far from the whole spectrum | 21:17 |
| ttx | The current proposal says: "a feature deprecated during the M development cycle should | 21:17 |
| ttx | still appear in the M and N releases and cannot be removed before the beginning of the O development cycle." | 21:17 |
| ttx | That is what we call "a minimum of n+2 deprecation" | 21:18 |
| ttx | Some said we should do a minimum of n+1 instead. | 21:18 |
| ttx | Some said features should be n+2, but config options should be n+1 (as long as they don't remove a feature) | 21:18 |
| ttx | What would be acceptable ? What do you think you are currently enforcing in your projects, if anything ? | 21:18 |
| bknudson | I could deprecate something today and remove it in a month. | 21:18 |
| bknudson | if we went with n+1 | 21:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | I liked the points sdague was making on that thread | 21:19 |
| jokke_ | . | 21:19 |
| jokke_ | 03 | 21:19 |
| jokke_ | .3 | 21:19 |
| jungleboyj | In Cinder we generally shoot for n+1. Doesn't always happen though. We do at least n+1 | 21:19 |
| jokke_ | sorry | 21:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | for continues deployers, you kinda want a minimum time frame to some extent | 21:19 |
| ttx | bknudson: yeah, which is why the minimum propsoed would be n+2 | 21:19 |
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| jokke_ | how about stating it full cycle, more like a calendar year? | 21:20 |
| bknudson | n+2 makes more sense. slow but steady wins the race. | 21:20 |
| ttx | johnthetubaguy: so n+1 with a minimum of 3 months, or something | 21:20 |
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| johnthetubaguy | ttx: yes, although the simplicity of n+2 is quite nice, it feels a bit long as a baseline | 21:20 |
| ttx | jokke_: so one aspect of it is that to know that a feature is deprecated you need to experience it through one "release" | 21:21 |
| ttx | at least | 21:21 |
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| johnthetubaguy | certainly Nova is generally doing n+1 as a minimum, but when we are unsure/worried, we wait much longer, but thats not really a good policy statement | 21:21 |
| ttx | we had unwritten common rules in the past, but they were so unwritten that everyone interpreted them differently :) | 21:21 |
| ttx | the policy would be a minimum guarantee | 21:22 |
| ttx | It's also fine is some projects are too young to follow it | 21:22 |
| jungleboyj | johnthetubaguy: That sounds like our's. :-) | 21:22 |
| notmyname | swift's policy is "don't break clients and operators must be able to upgrade with no cluster downtime)" | 21:22 |
| ttx | notmyname: but would you remove a feature or a config option without marking it deprecated for some time ? | 21:23 |
| fungi | though also a good rule of thumb is that when projects are too young to follow normal deprecation, they should stick with 0.x.x version numbers | 21:23 |
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| fungi | (same as for inability to make guarantees on backward compatibility) | 21:23 |
| ttx | fungi: we may be able to enforce that at some point (when all the >=1.0.0 projects happen to follow the minimum rule) | 21:24 |
| fungi | yep, here's hoping the current crop of projects are already mature! | 21:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | ttx: just for clarity, +1 your config statement, certainly Nova tried to ensure we don't force any config changes when doing an upgrade, assuming you dealt with all the deprecation messages in your logs from last time first, i.e. n+1 deprecation timeframe | 21:24 |
| ttx | notmyname: "don't break clients" is a bit vague. Is removing a feature they depend on "breaking" them ? | 21:24 |
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| fungi | also, all clients? only clients you know exist? only clients developed in cooperation with the swift dev team? | 21:25 |
| jokke_ | I'd say at least with config options, you should be able to upgrade to next version without breaking anything ... what I mean is that if config option changes you should be able to upgrade your running code first and after that if you don't need roll back you can go and upgrage your configs | 21:25 |
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| notmyname | ttx: matters most with operators. removing features breaks clients unless you bump the API version. for ops, removing a feature (normally one that's controlled by a config var) means that the new code must accept the old config file and still work. and document it extensively in release notes | 21:25 |
| notmyname | fungi: all clients. ie don't remove stuff from the api (or change existing functionality) without bumping the api version | 21:26 |
| fungi | mad props for api versioning and stability | 21:26 |
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| jokke_ | regarding that topic I'd like to hear wider opinion? How about defaults and how you deprecate them? | 21:27 |
| ttx | notmyname: I guess the question becomes.. when you bump the API version, do you still support the previous API version ? | 21:27 |
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| notmyname | ttx: yes | 21:27 |
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| bknudson | how long would we need to continue to support keystoneclient 1.x if we released a 2.x? | 21:27 |
| ttx | notmyname: and for how long ? | 21:27 |
| clarkb | so in theory grenade enforces that N -> N+1 work without config or api changes as long as we have coverage for those things | 21:27 |
| notmyname | ttx: but, it hasn't happened yet. ;-) | 21:27 |
| bknudson | and what support would the library get? | 21:27 |
| jokke_ | This as example we moved to default images api v2 in glanceclient shell when we moved to 1.0.0 | 21:27 |
| notmyname | ttx: we're still "supporting" clients written six years ago on the same API | 21:28 |
| clarkb | but it does not currently hve a way to enforce that in N -> N+2 | 21:28 |
| clarkb | maybe we can start with what grenade makes easy and work from there as its implementable? | 21:28 |
| ttx | notmyname: right, so this is about setting expectations. If you were to stop supporting them, would you be OK with a minimum of n+2 deprecation warning. | 21:28 |
| ttx | I bet you would, in that hypothetical case | 21:28 |
| fungi | in the spirit of "if it's not tested it's broken" don't claim we do things if we can't test that we really do them | 21:29 |
| notmyname | ttx: that presupposes that we would stop supporting them. there's no intention of that today | 21:29 |
| ttx | so you can assert that you would follow the minimum deprecation policy | 21:29 |
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| notmyname | ttx: sure. I guess | 21:29 |
| notmyname | ttx: or "at least" ;-) | 21:30 |
| ttx | notmyname: right. So the original version of this change had a "never-deprecate-anything" assertion | 21:30 |
| fungi | ∞>=2 | 21:30 |
| ttx | that was mostly meant for swift | 21:30 |
| ttx | but people told me that was a bit unrealistic and that we should only do a minimum assertion (but projects can obviously promise to do much better) | 21:30 |
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| ttx | i.e. the tag says "you can expect that if this project ever deprecates something, you would have some advance notice through a deprecation warning for n cycles" | 21:31 |
| notmyname | jokke_: to your point about config values, we've changed defaults before. always respect explicit values, and defaults should always work. | 21:31 |
| ttx | (at the very least) | 21:32 |
| notmyname | jokke_: and be explicit in docs + release notes about what they are | 21:32 |
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| johnthetubaguy | notmyname: same experience in Nova | 21:32 |
| jokke_ | notmyname: yes ... that far I do fully agree | 21:32 |
| notmyname | ttx: yup. that seems reasonable. | 21:32 |
| ttx | ok, anyway, no point in discussing that here, please answer to the thread and describe what you think you can assert you would at least follow | 21:33 |
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| fungi | though worth admitting that there are always going to be implicit defaults you don't realize exist until you find you want to change some behavior and add a configuration knob, so having some warning period before tweaking that is always helpful | 21:33 |
| ttx | I'll take the whole feedback and cook up something we can communicate to our users | 21:33 |
| notmyname | ttx: seems that it's more important that there *is* a deprecation policy. not as much what the N is. ie as a deployer know that config keys are good for a while. whatever the policy states | 21:33 |
| ttx | notmyname: agreed | 21:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | fungi: we did that for our periodic tasks, they were mixed up with 0 or -1 turning things off or using the default period, we gave that a cycle of warnings | 21:33 |
| jokke_ | notmyname: we bumped major version to try to make clear that this happened and documented it. The big cry that was raised was that someone who doesn't bother to read release notes might break their shellscripts if upgrading | 21:34 |
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| ttx | they need to know project X is past the crazy initial period wheer you can break users and deployers every other day. That's all this tag is meant to communicate | 21:34 |
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| ttx | which is why we want most mature projects to be able to assert it | 21:35 |
| notmyname | jokke_: yeah. that's tough. IMO that comes down to the client side again, not the ops side | 21:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | ttx: +1 thats very very valuable | 21:35 |
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| fungi | people who don't read might break things. this too is a universal constant | 21:35 |
| jokke_ | well this happened with tripleO gate where the new version was just pulled in and surprise v1 and v2 apis are not the same, but the big outcry did not come from there | 21:35 |
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| jungleboyj | fungi: ++ | 21:35 |
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| ttx | we don't have incubation or experimental mùarks anymore, this is a way to comunicate the same type of information | 21:35 |
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| notmyname | fungi: and through no fault of their own, especially when considering transitive dependencies | 21:35 |
| ttx | anywa, thanks for listening, and please contribute to that thread with your project data | 21:36 |
| notmyname | fungi: (sometimes) | 21:36 |
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| johnthetubaguy | cool, good topic | 21:36 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Open Discussion | 21:36 |
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| notmyname | ttx: this seems to be a great fit with the new release tags. (semver) | 21:36 |
| lifeless | hi | 21:36 |
| lifeless | I want to pimp two things | 21:36 |
| * fungi is unsure whether mùarks is a typo or new vocabulary to be assimilated | 21:36 | |
| lifeless | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/218070/ | 21:36 |
| lifeless | and | 21:36 |
| jokke_ | thanks for bringing that up ttx I think it's ever more important topic now with big tent and lots of variety | 21:36 |
| lifeless | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/204073/ | 21:36 |
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| lifeless | the first is moving testr to be run in a separate environment to the code-under-test | 21:37 |
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| * ttx stops correcting typos after a given time of the day | 21:37 | |
| lifeless | It should be straight forward; I think I've spoken to enough folk about it - plus the big thread - but please do comment | 21:37 |
| lifeless | the second is gus' privsep blueprint, strictly speaking its an oslo blueprint, but it will affect everyone as they adopt it | 21:38 |
| lifeless | its in very-very-very fine tuning mode now IMO | 21:38 |
| lifeless | I'd like to be able to get both approved before the summit, so that we don't need summit time on them | 21:38 |
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| fungi | or so that we can use summit time to get a headstart putting them into place | 21:39 |
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| ttx | lifeless: thx for pointing that one out, I definitely need to read that one (the rootwrap replacement) | 21:39 |
| lifeless | fungi: for folk that get time to do stuff at summit, sure :) | 21:39 |
| fungi | rather than arguing over the color | 21:39 |
| johnthetubaguy | or colour | 21:39 |
| * johnthetubaguy hides | 21:39 | |
| timrc | zaro, I've been thinking some about your last comment to https://review.openstack.org/#/c/205097/ -- I'm not sure we should do any special handling / inference based on the API documentation this is expected behavior... http://javadoc.jenkins-ci.org/hudson/model/Node.html | 21:39 |
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| timrc | zaro, So I think the client should interpret a "" node_name as being "master" but that should not be the responsibility of the gearman-worker plugin. | 21:40 |
| fungi | timrc: cross-project or wrong channel? | 21:40 |
| timrc | doh | 21:40 |
| timrc | Sorry lol | 21:40 |
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| johnthetubaguy | so I have been pondering Nova's current application of String Freeze | 21:41 |
| johnthetubaguy | to cut a long story short, I think we were being a bit too strict | 21:41 |
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| johnthetubaguy | forcing bug fixes to remove log messages, as not to violate freeze | 21:41 |
| johnthetubaguy | where really users would probably prefer an untranslated log instead of a hidden error | 21:42 |
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| mordred | johnthetubaguy: ++ | 21:42 |
| mordred | as a user, I would prefer that | 21:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | at least, thats what I have been wondering | 21:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyways, I attempted to write that up here: | 21:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Nova/Liberty_Release_Schedule#String_Freeze | 21:42 |
| mordred | to be fair - I am an english speaking user, so my feelings on untranslated strings are likely not to be trusted | 21:42 |
| lifeless | translated ops logs have never made sense to me | 21:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | Been talking to the folks over on #openstack-l18n and they seem quite receptive to the idea | 21:42 |
| lifeless | client logs, different thing | 21:42 |
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| johnthetubaguy | mordred: I went through exactly the same thought process | 21:43 |
| fungi | i would have interpreted the spirit of the freeze as "don't invalidate the work already completed by translators if you can help it" but adding to the pile seems fine | 21:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | fungi: yeah, thats basically what I put in that wiki page | 21:43 |
| ttx | johnthetubaguy: adding strings is much less evil to translators to modifying one. | 21:43 |
| ttx | than* | 21:43 |
| rockyg | Better a foreign symbol error/warning than silent fail. ++ johnthetubaguy | 21:43 |
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| clarkb | but if you do modify them do not change the interpolation stuff | 21:44 |
| ttx | modifying an existing one they may have already translated is evil because it throws away translation work | 21:44 |
| fungi | yeah, they're unlikely to hit 100.00000% translated so a few added strings during the freeze ought not be harmful | 21:44 |
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| johnthetubaguy | ttx: yes, I hadn't made the connection before talking with them today, for some reason, but I totally get that now | 21:44 |
| ttx | adding one is just adding another line to their work pile | 21:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | fungi: +1 | 21:44 |
| ttx | it's not evil unless you are one week before release | 21:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | ttx: yeah, totally get that *now* I sat down and thought about it | 21:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | so we have been interpreting things a bit too literally, just wanted to share that incase others were doing something similar | 21:45 |
| bknudson | the guidelines https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StringFreeze aren't correct? | 21:45 |
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| bknudson | "String freeze means that we cannot add new strings" | 21:46 |
| bknudson | the wiki seems to be the opposite of what we discussed here. | 21:46 |
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| fungi | yeah, i concur | 21:46 |
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| johnthetubaguy | bknudson: yeah, thats the old rules we were applying, and I noticed they seemed a bit crazy | 21:47 |
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| johnthetubaguy | so should I update https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StringFreeze to reflect what we said above | 21:47 |
| * ttx checks wiki | 21:47 | |
| fungi | an earlier version of that wiki said "proposed changes containing modifications in user-facing strings" | 21:48 |
| fungi | bisecting now to see when/why that changed | 21:48 |
| johnthetubaguy | would that update look a bit like this (ideally with many less words): https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Nova/Liberty_Release_Schedule#String_Freeze | 21:48 |
| ttx | oh, that was "improved" a lot since I last touched it | 21:48 |
| johnthetubaguy | fungi: I guess we called logs user facing at some point | 21:48 |
| ttx | johnthetubaguy: feel free to come to something more sensible with the I18n/Docs teams. All this is to facilitate their work, so they decide what matters to them and what doesn't | 21:49 |
| johnthetubaguy | which was a bit silly | 21:49 |
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| * mordred once again points out that "user" is a TERRIBLE word in our world | 21:49 | |
| johnthetubaguy | ttx: yeah, I have an action to send them the above wiki, didn't get to that | 21:49 |
| fungi | https://wiki.openstack.org/w/index.php?title=StringFreeze&diff=47151&oldid=46049 | 21:49 |
| ttx | like clarkb said, maybe modifying strings ar ok as long | 21:49 |
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| fungi | did not include any explanation of why that was changed, unfortunately | 21:49 |
| ttx | ...are ok as long as you keep the interpolation up | 21:49 |
| johnthetubaguy | mordred: +1 needs diss-abiguation, and I need a dictionary | 21:50 |
| bknudson | put that file in git/gerrit! | 21:50 |
| mordred | johnthetubaguy: yah. and a thesaurus | 21:50 |
| johnthetubaguy | mordred: yup | 21:50 |
| * rockyg overloads another friendly word so it becomes meaningless in OpenStack....hah, take that! | 21:50 | |
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| ttx | johnthetubaguy: if you manage to come up with something better that is OK with them, feel free to update the wiki page | 21:50 |
| fungi | bknudson: yeah, lack of code review is the primary reason we've been moving so much from the wiki to git in the past year | 21:50 |
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| * jokke_ takes user as ops running their cloud and end-user as that poor fella clicking horizon | 21:51 | |
| ttx | this could be described in the project team guide somewhere | 21:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | where do we want this to go, if I put it in gerrit? | 21:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, project team guide would work | 21:51 |
| fungi | when you have a project team guide hammer, problems like this certainly look like nails | 21:52 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK, is anyone jumping up and down to do that, or should I take that action? | 21:52 |
| ttx | johnthetubaguy: yeah, even if some projects wouldn't follow those, describing that common community practice there sounds like the right place | 21:52 |
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| fungi | johnthetubaguy: seems as good a home as any | 21:52 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 21:52 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #action johnthetubaguy to add string freeze description into project team guide | 21:53 |
| johnthetubaguy | that version fungi found from dolph seems quite good, back in 2014 | 21:53 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool, thats all for me | 21:53 |
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| johnthetubaguy | any more? | 21:53 |
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| rockyg | can you remove the text from the wiki and put a pointer to the project guide when you're done? | 21:54 |
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| johnthetubaguy | rockyg: totally will do, will update the wiki first | 21:54 |
| rockyg | thanks! | 21:54 |
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| johnthetubaguy | cool, thank you all | 21:55 |
| jokke_ | big hand to ttx and dhellmann for herding us towards one more release and ttx being all around the place for one summit as well :) | 21:55 |
| elmiko | hear hear | 21:55 |
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| ttx | thx! | 21:55 |
| johnthetubaguy | enjoy your morning/afternoon/lunch/sleep all! | 21:55 |
| jokke_ | thnx all | 21:55 |
| johnthetubaguy | jokke_ +1 | 21:55 |
| ttx | sleep! | 21:55 |
| rockyg | huzzah! | 21:55 |
| jroll | jokke_++ | 21:55 |
| johnthetubaguy | #endmeeting | 21:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:55 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 8 21:55:56 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:55 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-09-08-21.01.html | 21:55 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-09-08-21.01.txt | 21:56 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-09-08-21.01.log.html | 21:56 |
| elmiko | thanks johnthetubaguy | 21:56 |
| jroll | thanks all | 21:56 |
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| rockyg | good job, johnthetubaguy | 21:56 |
| EmilienM | thanks | 21:56 |
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| Piet | cheers! | 21:57 |
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