Tuesday, 2015-09-22

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anteaya#startmeeting third-party08:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Sep 22 08:00:56 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.08:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.08:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)"08:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'third_party'08:01
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anteayaraise your hand if you are here for the third-party meeting08:01
vhejralhere ;)08:02
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anteayaI don't know as we have met before08:02
anteayawhich third party ci system is yours?08:02
vhejrali am intel networking ci - working with wznoinsk08:03
anteayahow is your ci working?08:03
vhejralgood ;) thx08:03
anteayaglad to hear it08:03
anteayado you mean to wink at me with every statement you make?08:04
anteayais that on purpose?08:04
vhejralit was, the answer is no08:05
anteayado you have anything you would like to discuss today?08:05
vhejrali don't08:05
anteayaokay well thanks for being here08:05
anteayawe can wait a few minutes and see if anyone else shows up with anything to discuss08:06
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anteayaoh and this08:07
anteaya#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/186684/08:07
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anteayathis patch merged in the past and broke some things so it was reverted08:08
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anteayaand it will merge again soon08:08
anteayaso take a look at your ci system to ensure yours won't break once it merges08:08
anteayait was discussed at the 15:00 third party meeting yesterday08:09
anteaya#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-meeting/%23openstack-meeting.2015-09-21.log.html#t2015-09-21T15:05:3608:09
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anteayawell I don't see anyone else here today08:22
anteayaso I will close up the meeting08:22
anteayathanks for your attendance vhejral08:22
anteayahope to see you again sometime08:23
anteayaenjoy the rest of your day08:23
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"08:23
openstackMeeting ended Tue Sep 22 08:23:25 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)08:23
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-09-22-08.00.html08:23
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-09-22-08.00.txt08:23
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-09-22-08.00.log.html08:23
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vhejral   /msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER vhejral uqofjfaoriad08:36
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alex_xu#startmeeting nova api12:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Sep 22 12:00:09 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is alex_xu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.12:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.12:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova api)"12:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova_api'12:00
alex_xuHello, who is here today?12:00
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alex_xuedleafe: you are faster than my question12:00
edleafealways! :)12:00
* alex_xu will use copy/paste next time12:01
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alex_xuhello everyone, let's start the meeting12:01
alex_xu#topic actions from last meeting12:01
*** openstack changes topic to "actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: nova api)"12:01
alex_xualex_xu_ and oomichi take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1495388 more12:01
openstackLaunchpad bug 1495388 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "The instance hostname didn't match the RFC 952 and 1123's definition" [Medium,In progress] - Assigned to Eli Qiao (taget-9)12:01
alex_xu#link https://review.openstack.org/22443812:01
alex_xuThanks to eliqiao work on it12:02
alex_xuI think the patch is close. hope everybody review i12:02
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alex_xuthe empty hostname is the only bug we find for hostname12:03
sdagueso, I thought on linux the max hostname was 64 characters12:03
sdaguednsmasq doesn't work if you have things longer than that12:03
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alex_xusdague: oops, I didn't try that. just read rfc, there is relax for that12:03
johnthetubaguysdague: I think on windows its even smaller12:04
johnthetubaguybut yeah, its dnsmasq that is the issue here12:04
sdaguealex_xu: yeh, so the dnsmasq thing should be figured out12:04
alex_xuok, I will ask eliqiao help to recheck those cases12:04
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* bauzas waves late and lurks12:04
sdaguealso, just truncating the hostname might lead to weird results. If truncation happens there should be a WARN message about it12:04
sdaguethat has definitely tripped us up at times on the mulitnode job12:05
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alex_xu#action alex_xu eliqiao check max length of hostname on linux and windows again12:05
alex_xusdague: ok, that make sense12:06
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alex_xuanyway thanks sdague, will work on that continue12:07
alex_xulet's move on12:07
alex_xugmann_ backport the server name fix12:07
alex_xugmann: are you here?12:07
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alex_xuI didnt saw the patch, let me catch gmann or I help on work the patch if I have time12:07
alex_xu#action alex_xu catch gmann about backport patch or work on it if have enough time12:08
alex_xuoomichi will take a look at https://review.openstack.org/220791 more to find out more clean way12:08
alex_xuok, the hard one12:08
alex_xuoomichi -1 on this https://review.openstack.org/22079112:08
alex_xuoops, -212:08
alex_xuand oomichi not here :(12:09
johnthetubaguyso we have a -2 and not replacement patches, which is what I thought we agreed we would not do12:09
johnthetubaguyis there are better time to catch him, I should come on a few hours early tomorrow if he is around?12:09
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alex_xujohnthetubaguy: maybe, I also can try in the morning, but he isn't on the irc all the time, or we can catch gmann to catch oomichi12:10
alex_xuok, so all the people at here have agreement, let's move on12:11
alex_xu#topic API Bug12:11
*** openstack changes topic to "API Bug (Meeting topic: nova api)"12:11
alex_xuemm....we already talk all the bugs...so anyone I missed?12:11
alex_xuoops, there is one12:11
alex_xu#topic Removal of v3 naming from source tree12:11
*** openstack changes topic to "Removal of v3 naming from source tree (Meeting topic: nova api)"12:11
alex_xu#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:master+topic:bug/1462901,n,z12:12
alex_xuI think just need review, no more problem12:12
alex_xuso let's move on?12:12
sdaguealex_xu: sounds good, I'll look at those reviews shortly12:12
* alex_xu feel we will have short meeting today12:12
alex_xusdague: thanks12:12
alex_xu#topic Reviews12:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Reviews (Meeting topic: nova api)"12:12
sdaguewell, I'd like to figure out exactly what we are going to do about https://review.openstack.org/22079112:12
alex_xuService Catalog standardization12:12
sdaguejohnthetubaguy do you want to talk with oomichi before moving forward? or move forward and work with him later?12:13
alex_xusdague: I can find out the irc log link for you, then you can know the oomichi's point12:13
sdaguebecause when's the RC point12:13
johnthetubaguysdague: I think we should go for both in parallel12:13
johnthetubaguysdague: so I pushed out RC until thursday at this point12:13
sdaguejohnthetubaguy: ok, so alex_xu will colapse the 2 patches into 112:14
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sdagueand we'll use the base patch which doesn't have the -2 on it and move it forward?12:14
alex_xusdague: ok, no problem12:14
johnthetubaguysdague: was thinking the same thing12:14
johnthetubaguynow, alex_xu if you can reach out to oomichi, that would be good, and I can try catch him while he is around as well12:15
sdaguealex_xu: you good with that plan?12:15
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: yea, will do12:15
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alex_xusdague: ea, I'm good12:15
sdagueok, great12:15
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alex_xuso let's move on12:15
alex_xu#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/181393/12:15
alex_xu^ I guess this show up in previous meeting...it isn't me adding the link12:16
alex_xuif no more talk about hat, just please review it12:16
alex_xuthen let's ove on12:16
alex_xu#topic API Documentation Improvement12:17
*** openstack changes topic to "API Documentation Improvement (Meeting topic: nova api)"12:17
alex_xu#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/22625312:17
alex_xuthanks to johnthetubaguy !12:17
sdaguejohnthetubaguy: yeh, seriously, thanks for that12:17
alex_xudo we want to track the todo?12:17
johnthetubaguyso took a quick look at what we had and added some boiler place12:17
johnthetubaguynow I am think we merge the TODOs12:18
johnthetubaguythen have follow on patches to fix them12:18
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johnthetubaguytotally open to alternative ideas mind, that just seems a simple way forward12:18
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alex_xuso please review it!12:19
johnthetubaguynow there is a bit of repetition between that and the complete reference, but I think we should probably just get links into the complete reference to point back to the concept guide.12:19
sdaguejohnthetubaguy: the todo model seems good to me12:20
johnthetubaguyis anyone looking at adding the missing stuff into this doc: http://developer.openstack.org/api-ref-compute-v2.1.html12:20
johnthetubaguyalex_xu I think you made a good list in an etherpad as a starting point12:20
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alex_xu#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-api-site/+bug/148814412:21
openstackLaunchpad bug 1488144 in openstack-api-site "Collection of Compute v2.1 API doc bugs" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Atsushi SAKAI (sakaia)12:21
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: ^ doc team work on it12:21
alex_xu#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/api-site+branch:master+topic:bug/1488144,n,z12:21
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alex_xunot sure the progress, but as you said, we should help on review12:21
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alex_xujohnthetubaguy: is it ok?12:23
johnthetubaguyhmm, interesting, I guess we should reach out to those folks12:23
johnthetubaguydoes anyone have contact with them?12:23
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alex_xuemm...no, I think12:23
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alex_xuI can contact him12:24
johnthetubaguyOK, so I can try reach out to them, via other folks, and see what I can do12:24
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: thanks12:24
johnthetubaguythe topic is a great start at least12:24
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: do you want an action12:25
johnthetubaguyyes please12:25
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alex_xu#action johnthetubaguy contact the doc team to see what we can help on missing stuff in the doc http://developer.openstack.org/api-ref-compute-v2.1.html12:25
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alex_xuso let's move on12:26
alex_xu#topic open12:27
*** openstack changes topic to "open (Meeting topic: nova api)"12:27
alex_xu#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/cloudlet12:27
alex_xuwho own this item?12:27
sdaguethat seems like it needs a spec for sure12:27
johnthetubaguyoh, I forget their IRC handle now12:27
sdagueI'm not really sure what that is12:28
johnthetubaguyyeah, I have emailed them about creating a spec12:28
johnthetubaguyI have a feeling they got some conference talk approved in some track12:28
alex_xume too, not veryclear what is12:28
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johnthetubaguyso it turns out, I think its about having VMs follow you around a cell network12:28
johnthetubaguyusing something that sounds a bit like what you do with containers12:28
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: not sure, it about import vm snapshot, then resume vm...and create snapshot again from the doc...12:29
johnthetubaguyI am currently a -2 on the spec, if its what I thought it was12:29
sdagueyeh, so we should just push them back to writing a spec12:29
johnthetubaguyyes, please write a spec, is the key part12:29
alex_xuok, if I saw the irc, will tell them12:30
johnthetubaguyI thought I added that on the whiteboard already, adding another comment12:30
edleafeat least a link to the cloudlet project12:30
edleafeso that we have an idea what it is12:30
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alex_xuok, so let's move on12:31
alex_xu#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/79473012:31
openstackLaunchpad bug 794730 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "API doesn't specify what limit=0 means" [Wishlist,Confirmed] - Assigned to Zhenyu Zheng (zhengzhenyu)12:31
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alex_xuZheny, are you around?12:31
alex_xuoops, sorry, Zhenyu12:31
sdaguelimit=0 seems like it should be ignored like it is now, forcing it to be an empty container seems silly12:32
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alex_xusdague: maybe we should check other project behaviour first, and there better have api-wg guideline about pagination12:32
johnthetubaguyso there has been a lot of chatter about the images API12:32
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alex_xuand the image api is proxy api, so that should depend on glance's behaviour?12:33
johnthetubaguymy take is we proxy things from glance v1 right now, so glance v1 is owning the limiting of the results, mostly because it always has12:33
johnthetubaguyyeah, +1 I think12:33
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sdagueyeh, and honestly, I think their behavior is wrong12:33
sdaguebecause it's kind of pointless12:33
alex_xu#link https://review.openstack.org/19074312:34
sdagueI don't know of what value that would be12:34
sdaguelimit=0 should actually be a 400 BadRequest honestly12:34
johnthetubaguyyeah, thats another issue12:34
alex_xuthere is patch for paginiation guideline, but not finish yet12:34
johnthetubaguyyeah, it does seem invalid12:34
alex_xubetter to means no limit?12:34
johnthetubaguyif you want to return none, its a HEAD request not a GET12:34
edleafesome like to read "limit=0" as "no limit"12:34
edleafeagree that that's wrong12:34
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alex_xuso we like 400?12:35
sdagueit looks like everyone arguing for limit=0 to return an empty container want it to use list as count12:36
jokke_fwiw I do agree that the limit=0 should be unlimited like we treat such in any config option as well12:36
alex_xuhttps://review.openstack.org/190743 looks like already begin to fight on limits=012:36
alex_xujokke_: that sounds good point, consistent behaviour between configure file and api12:37
edleafeI can see the desire for a way of specifying "give me everything", but "limit=0" seems like it's not a good fit12:37
sdagueedleafe: "everything" is typically a ddos12:38
sdagueservices have max_limit set in code for a reason12:38
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edleafesdague: heh12:38
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alex_xusdague: limits=0 should be the max_limit12:38
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sdagueanyway, that seems like an API WG issue that needs to be pushed forward12:39
edleafe"give me the max"12:39
sdagueedleafe: don't specify limit then12:39
alex_xuso if you have opinion please continue the discussion on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/19074312:39
sdagueit's not a required parameter12:39
edleafesdague: good point12:39
edleafenot specifying limit means "up to the max allowed".12:40
johnthetubaguythat seems the most sensible approach to me12:40
edleafebut I guess others want "give me everything, even if it's more than max allowed."12:40
edleafeagree that that's a ddos scenario12:41
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johnthetubaguyyeah, that should not be an option12:41
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alex_xuanyway there is no result at here. so anything more want to talk about, or we close meeting early, back to coding?12:42
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alex_xuso thanks all!12:43
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"12:43
openstackMeeting ended Tue Sep 22 12:43:40 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)12:43
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-09-22-12.00.html12:43
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-09-22-12.00.txt12:43
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-09-22-12.00.log.html12:43
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AbhishekI have installation relatedd doubts12:44
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Qiming#startmeeting senlin13:03
openstackMeeting started Tue Sep 22 13:03:35 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.13:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.13:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'senlin'13:03
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Qimingmorning/evening ...13:04
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Qimingfeel free to add/modify meeting agenda13:04
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Qimingokay, let's get started13:06
Qiming#topic container clustering13:06
*** openstack changes topic to "container clustering (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:06
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Qimingjust got an update from the SUR team13:07
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Qimingoverall progress is good13:07
Qimingsome interns has built a client for senlin to talk to k8s, and they are testing it13:07
Qimingsome interns have tried creating k8s clusters by having magnum invoking senlin, using a heat profile13:08
Qimingthey are still working on improving the yaml files used in this context13:09
haiwei_this is what we want to show in the summit?13:09
haiwei_for the demo13:09
Qimingsome interns have tried collecting runtime metrics from docker using CAdvisor, triggering the scaling using alarms generated from these metrics13:09
Qimingyes, haiwei_, this is the work we want to show case13:10
haiwei_the second one or the third one?13:11
Qimingthe autoscaling work13:11
haiwei_or all of these?13:11
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Qimingwe are evaluating different options to glue the two layers of entities together, in the magnum context13:12
yanyanQiming, you mean the scaling of both VMs and containers?13:12
Qimingthere will be open questions, but I think that is okay13:12
Qimingcurrently, triggering VM scaling using container-layer metrics is working13:13
Qimingwe are discussing whether the other path is worth to do13:13
Qimingwe are also looking into load-balancing options13:13
yanyanabout the lb part, I think they met some issues13:13
Qimingyanyan, please help with the team and see if the version conflicts problem is solved13:14
yanyanI guess the neutron lb version in their env is still v113:14
Qimingthere seems to be some LB configuration problem13:14
yanyanso they mentioned that they have version problem13:14
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Qimingyes, need to engage at this stage13:14
yanyanwill re their mail and discuss with them13:14
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Qimingany questions/comments on this work?13:16
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haiwei_is there a deadline for this?13:16
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Qimingwe want to see the whole thing up and running by the end of this month13:17
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Qiminganyone interested in this can leave a comment here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/magnum-senlin13:17
Qiming#topic Trigger implementation13:18
*** openstack changes topic to "Trigger implementation (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:18
Qimingso ... we decided a few weeks ago to provide an abstraction called 'Trigger'13:18
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Qimingbasically, it would be a wrapper of ceilometer/aodh alarms, monasca alarms, zaqar queues ... things that can trigger an action on senlin entities: clusters, nodes ...13:19
QimingA user will decide what tools they want to use13:20
Qimingthe basic CRUD logic is already committed13:20
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Qiminghowever, this work is blocked somehow by two things13:20
Qiming1. ceilometer alarming service is offcially separated from ceilometer into aodh13:21
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Qimingsince senlin is not talking to any xyz service using xyzclient, we are using openstacksdk13:21
Qimingso we need to add aodh support into openstacksdk first, then we can experiment with "ceilometer/aodh" alarms first13:22
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Qimingthe problem is that openstacksdk is blocking any resource types at the moment13:22
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Qimingso ... we need a workaround, we will host these bits temporarily in senlin codebase and migrate them to openstacksdk later13:23
Qimingor else we will be blocked for a long time ..13:23
QimingI'm working on that13:24
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yanyanso the first step is support trigger based on aodh alarm13:25
haiwei_aodh is using ceilometer-client, so it is almost the same to support ceilometer-client?13:25
yanyanok, after the framework of trigger is done, we add more trigger tyep13:25
QimingI'm not sure about monasca's status, or the usability of zaqar so far13:25
Qiminghaiwei_, if you using ceilometerclient, everything remains the same13:26
Qimingthere will be an redirection from ceilometer to aodh concerning alarm operations13:26
yanyanzaqar is a little different I think, maybe we need a new handler type to support it13:26
Qimingyep, it is not longer a webhook13:27
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Qimingit will be totally about message queue13:27
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Qiming#topic heat resource type support13:27
*** openstack changes topic to "heat resource type support (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:27
haiwei_aodhclient== ceilometer-client?13:27
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Qiminghaiwei_, aodhclient?13:28
yanyanhi, haiwei_ , I think there is just ceilometer client13:28
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Qimingdon't know if there is such thing, we won't use it even there is a new client13:28
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haiwei_ok, I need to learn adoh first13:29
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Qimingso ethan has kindly offered to take senlin back to heat13:29
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elynnyea, I'm working on this13:30
elynnstill need to discuss how to implement it.13:30
Qimingwe have quite a few things to work out13:30
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elynnI don't quite get Kanagaraj Manickam's point.13:30
elynnHe said senlin is part of requirements.txt13:31
elynnBut I don't see it.13:31
Qimingabove all design considerations, we'd strive to maintain compatibility with heat ResourceGroup ...13:31
Qimingelynn, it is a typo13:31
Qimingsenlin is not listed there yet13:31
yanyanin big tent, will it be?13:32
Qimingamong the concepts (objects) senlin exposed, the top priority, in my view, is cluster and node13:32
Qimingit doesn't matter I think13:33
elynnYes we need to compatible with heat RG, question is when.13:33
Qimingwe need to put 'UNSUPPORTED' as support status once the code is in13:33
elynnyes, maybe cluster is enough for compatible with heat Rg13:33
Qimingelynn, from the very beginning13:33
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Qimingcluster is meant to be a superset in terms of features from RG13:34
Qimingif not, we need to improve cluster design/implementation13:34
Qiminghowever, we may don't need to model senlin profile in Heat13:35
Qimingfrom Heat's perspective, it is just an implementation detail13:35
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Qimingthe big issue as I see it is about the 'update' operation13:36
elynnSo the resources for senlin would be like OS::Senlin::Cluster OS::Senlin::Node OS::Senlin::ResourceGroup ?13:36
Qimingwhich is the only operation for you to change things in Heat13:36
Qimingno OS::Senlin::ResourceGroup13:36
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elynnso OS::Senlin::Cluster replace Heat RG resource?13:37
Qimingwe can add an entry in the default environment file to map OS::Heat::ResourceGroup to OS::Senlin::Cluster13:37
Qimingeven that mapping would be a mid-term work13:38
elynnok, I got it.13:38
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yanyanso both properties and attrs of OS::Senlin::Cluster should be completely compatible with RSG13:38
elynnso what's the problem for stack-update?13:38
Qimingthe near-term is to make OS::Senlin::Cluster work, cover all ResourceGroup features by invoking senlin APIs13:38
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yanyanor maybe superset of the one of RSG13:39
Qimingstack-update -> resource update13:39
Qimingresource update -> cluster ?13:39
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Qimingit could be cluster resize, cluster update13:39
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elynnand nested stack update13:39
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Qimingheat doesn't have to see the nested stacks13:40
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QimingRG <=> cluster of heat stacks13:40
Qimingheat stacks here is already the nested stack13:41
Qimingand we implement it using profile13:41
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Qimingwhen template used for the inner stack changes, we change the profile13:41
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Qimingwhen template is not changed, we may still need to do resize operations13:41
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Qimingwe got to be very careful at every step13:42
elynnI've see apis in senlin for cluster resize, is it enough ?13:42
Qimingwhen doing this, we should think in Heat's philosophy, not the other way13:42
Qimingyep, I'm pretty sure it is a superset of RG's capability13:43
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Qimingelynn, we need to sit down and work out the details13:43
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Qimingyet another blocker is that we need to release senlinclient first13:44
Qimingmake it into the global requirements so that other projects can invoke us13:45
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QimingI'll ask around how to do this13:45
yanyanand I think the way invoking senlinclient is a little different from the client of other services ?13:45
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Qimingsadly I won't be avail 9am-13pm tomorrow13:46
yanyannot 9:3013:46
Qimingbut we can discuss this via email if f2f discussion is not possible13:46
elynnsenlinclient now didn't provider api to call directly, isn't it? we can only use shell commands to call it .13:47
Qimingsigh, the meeting was rescheduled13:47
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Qiming9-11, meet, 11-12, all-hands, 12-13 lunch meet13:47
yanyanelynn, yes, I think so. But we can build sdk session first and use it to creation senlinclient instance I think13:47
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yanyanright, there is an allhands tomorrow...13:48
Qimingwe can work out some pseudo code first13:48
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Qiming#topic open discussions13:48
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussions (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:48
Qiming11 mins13:48
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Qimingthen I have another meeting, no meat13:49
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yanyandid you have dinner?13:49
Qimingso other than the topics we touched so far13:49
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QimingI'd encourage everyone to start signing up to mitaka work items13:50
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Qimingyanyan, I did, without being far from keyboard13:50
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Qiminganything else, before we release this channel?13:51
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yanyanno from me13:52
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elynnI've sign my name on some item ;)13:52
elynnDon't know if anyone are working on zaqar or not...13:52
Qimingokay, thanks for joining, and your hard work, :)13:53
Qiminguntil next time13:53
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"13:53
openstackMeeting ended Tue Sep 22 13:53:19 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)13:53
elynnI think we need to build some BP to track this.13:53
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-09-22-13.03.html13:53
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-09-22-13.03.txt13:53
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-09-22-13.03.log.html13:53
Qimingelynn, let's continue on senlin13:53
flaper87elynn: what you mean with "you don't know if anyone is working on Zaqar" ?13:53
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flaper87The project is quite active and the team would be happy to answer questions and provide feedback in #openstack-zaqar13:54
elynnflaper87:  never mind, my network is broken, I thought I was in senlin meeting...13:54
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Qimingflaper87, \o/13:54
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Qimingflaper87, the question is really about anyone is working on invoking zaqar from senlin, :)13:55
flaper87Qiming: :)13:55
flaper87Qiming: oh, ok!13:56
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flaper87Qiming: It'd be awesome to have feedback from you guys13:56
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Qimingwould that be you? flaper8713:56
flaper87What you're doing w/ Zaqar and how the team can help you :)13:56
flaper87Qiming: anyone in #openstack-zaqar or openstack-dev ML13:56
Qimingflaper87, senlin is about building clusters of homogeneous objects ... think of it as an array data type for programming your cloud13:57
Qimingwe want to trigger actions on the clusters through message queues13:57
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mesteryQiming flaper87: FYI, Neutron meeting starts in this channel in 2 minutes13:58
mesteryQiming flaper87: You folks may want to move to #openstack-zaqar :)13:58
flaper87mestery: ++13:58
Qimingmestery, thanks!13:58
mesterycool :)13:58
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mesteryAnd speaking of it ... Neutron meeting!13:59
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emaganayeah.... I am awake!!!13:59
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mesteryemagana: lol :)13:59
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emaganabarely to be honest... with coffee in hand13:59
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mesteryemagana: ;)13:59
* regXboi looks for the party hats for mestery13:59
* mestery can sense the excitement from everyone14:00
emaganamestery: last leading meeting from this season my friend!!  Have fun!14:00
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mesteryemagana: My tyrannical reign is finally coming to an end!14:00
mestery#startmeeting networking14:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Sep 22 14:00:30 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is mestery. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)"14:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'networking'14:00
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mestery#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings Agenda14:00
emaganamestery: A new one is coming.. ;-)14:00
* mestery waits a minute to let the stragglers wander in14:00
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ihrachysmestery: time to vote for another tyrant14:01
mesteryihrachys: But can anyone be as tyrranical as I was? ;)14:01
mesteryI feel like a dinosaur or something :)14:01
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ihrachysmestery: definitely! new ones are always worse then previous ones!14:01
mestery#topic Announcements14:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking)"14:01
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ajoo/ :(14:01
mestery#info We're going to cut liberty-rc1 tomorrow (likely)14:02
* ihrachys dances rumba14:02
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mestery#info We're tracking the final bugs (4 at last count), more later in the meeting14:02
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emaganalast minutes commits.... now!!14:02
mestery#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReleaseNotes/Liberty#OpenStack_Liberty_Release_Notes Liberty Release Notes14:02
mestery#info Please focus on making our release notes the best release notes out there! Thanks to those who have already jumped in there!14:02
mestery#info Please vote in the Neutron PTL election!14:02
mestery#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/PTL_Elections_September_201514:03
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mesteryWe have 3 great candidates, I for one am exçited to see who our new overlord will be later this week! :)14:03
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mesteryAnd a last announcement ...14:03
mesteryI had to go all caps14:03
mesteryBecause it's finally in! :)14:03
* regXboi is in shock14:03
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regXboiI'm shocked, SHOCKED to see all caps :)14:04
* russellb offers pecan pie in celebration14:04
mestery#info Thanks to kevinbenton salv-orlando blogan and a cast of thousands :)14:04
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mesteryrussellb: lol14:04
mesteryNow to make it stable in Mitaka! :)14:04
mesteryAny other announcements for the team?14:04
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ihrachysme as an example of an ignorant packager could use some docs help on how we expect to run them, whether they need to conflict with current neutron-server service etc. do we have such docs?14:04
PietLet me know when you want to talk about the survey14:05
ihrachysthose new servers I mean14:05
kevinbentonihrachys: no, not yet.14:05
mesteryihrachys: We do not yet14:05
mesterykevinbenton: We need a release note indicating it's experitmental14:05
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gongysh_kevinbenton: pecan version  is ready to create a network?14:05
kevinbentonihrachys: they don't work quite right with service plugins that have their own extension controllers14:06
kevinbentongongysh: Yeah, should work for that14:06
ihrachyskevinbenton: that's fine, ignorant packagers just want to package it and maybe set deps between services14:06
gongysh_kevinbenton: congrat.14:06
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emaganaihrachys and kevinbenton we could add a chapter into the networking guide indicating that its experimental14:06
mesteryWell, given it doesn't fully work yet, maybe we don't want to go that far in documenting it. What thinks you kevinbenton?14:06
emaganamestery: the sooner the better.. it will help to get more people testing it14:07
mesteryAnyways, lets keep the agenda moving.14:07
gongysh_where to find the doc, even devref to set it up?14:07
mesteryemagana: True dat :)14:07
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mesterySince Piet has joined us ...14:07
dougwigMaybe add +q-pecan to devstack.14:07
mestery#topic OpenStack UX team survey update14:08
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack UX team survey update (Meeting topic: networking)"14:08
mesteryPiet: Floor is yours for an update!14:08
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PietThe OpenStack UX project has created a survey to understand some of the challenges associated with moving from Nova Network to Neutron.14:08
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PietIt was based on a series of interviews conducted by a User Researcher with HP14:08
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PietPlease, please, please complete the survey and distribute to anyone with experience with Networks in OpenStack.14:08
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mesteryPiet: Did you send a mail to the ML yet?14:09
mesteryAh, even better14:09
mestery#link https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/osnetworking14:09
mestery#info Please spread the survey far and wide14:09
PietWe're trying to get the sample to about 100 respondents14:09
mesteryThanks Piet! Any questions from anyone for Piet and team?14:09
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mesteryThank you Piet and team for working on this. Looking forward to the results. :)14:10
mesteryOK, lets move along.14:10
PietFeel free to reach-out to me on IRC if you have any questions14:10
mesteryThanks Piet!14:10
PietI can also email you the formal invitiation14:10
mestery#topic liberty-rc114:10
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mestery#link https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/liberty-rc114:10
mesteryThe last BP, which I expect to defer, is this one: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/lbaas-ref-octavia14:10
mesterydougwig: What says the LBaaS team on this?14:10
mesteryDefered to Mitaka?14:10
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xgermandougwig rudely stopped us with a -214:11
mesteryxgerman: Well, if he hadn't, I was gonna :)14:11
xgermantyrant :-)14:11
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dougwigthe code is ready, the gate jobs are running into issues because it's VMs inside VMs.  johnsom has a patch up that might resolve tha.14:11
dougwigwe'll make the final call today, with you.14:11
sc68calgonna run mestery out on a rail14:11
mesterydougwig: Ack, sounds good14:11
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johnsomI think the patches we merged yesterday will have resolved the gate issues.14:11
mestery#info We'll make the final call on Octavia later today, 9-2214:12
mesteryjohnsom: Lets make sure to stay in sync on IRC today14:12
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mesteryAnd see what we come up with by end of day14:12
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johnsomSounds good14:12
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mesteryNow, on to the final four bugs on the dashboard14:12
mestery#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/145335014:12
openstackLaunchpad bug 1453350 in neutron "race between neutron port create and nova" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Kevin Benton (kevinbenton)14:12
mesterykevinbenton: What's happening with this one? How is it coming along? And even better, do you see this as an RC blocker?14:12
kevinbentonI will have the latest patch up for that today and we can determine if it's too risky for release14:13
mesterykevinbenton: Ack14:13
mestery#info for 1453350, we'll make a call later in the day.14:13
mesteryNext up14:14
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mestery#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/149745014:14
openstackLaunchpad bug 1497450 in neutron "DNS lookup code in get_ports needs to be optimized" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Miguel Lavalle (minsel)14:14
mesterymlavalle: Same thing here?14:14
mesteryLooks like we're expecting a patch later today14:14
mlavallemestery: we will have a patchset today14:14
mlavalleI think it is looking good14:14
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mesterymlavalle: Thanks! regXboi make sure you review that patch when mlavalle posts it.14:15
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kevinbentonmlavalle: can you ping me with the review when it's ready?14:15
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mesterykevinbenton: thanks for your review as well :)14:15
mesteryNext up14:15
mlavallekevinbenton: will do14:15
mestery#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/148899614:15
openstackLaunchpad bug 1488996 in neutron "QoS doesn't work when a mechanism driver which doesn't implement bind_port explicitly supports it" [Medium,In progress] - Assigned to Miguel Angel Ajo (mangelajo)14:15
regXboimestery: ack - probably run it through the test scenario for an hour14:15
ihrachysthat one is in gate14:15
mesteryihrachys ajo: This one looks good?14:15
* mestery ^5s ihrachys 14:15
mesteryEasy peasy ihrachys, just how I like it ;)14:15
mesteryAnd the last one14:15
mestery#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/149562814:15
ajomestery, it does, it's ihrachy's work, I just pushed a last patch14:15
openstackLaunchpad bug 1495628 in neutron "In DHCP agent's enable_dhcp_helper, its good to call safe_configure_dhcp_for_network" [Medium,In progress] - Assigned to Sudhakar Gariganti (sudhakar-gariganti)14:15
ajothanks mestery  :)14:15
mesteryajo: Ack sir14:16
mesteryThis one went from a 1 line patch to something much more14:16
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mesteryAnyways, we'll make the call on this one later today, doesn't seem to be a release blocker however14:17
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mesteryOK, does anyone want to make a plea for anything else in Liberty at this point?14:17
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ajolove and liberty ;D14:18
mesteryajo: Love and Liberty indeed :)14:18
regXboihow about egalite? fraternite?14:18
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regXboi(sorry, can't find the proper glyphs on this keyboard)14:18
mestery#topic Mitaka Design Summit14:18
mestery#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/neutron-mitaka-designsummit14:18
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pc_mmestery: Don't think endpoint groups will be reviewed in time,14:18
mesterypc_m: Ack :(14:18
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mesterySo, we have a lot of items proposed on the etherpad which is great!14:18
mesteryOur next PTL will be responsible for planning this thing out, but I encourage folks to keep submitting ideas14:19
mesteryKEep in mind we only have 12 slots14:19
mesterySo I expect the next PTL to focus on community items that really need face to face discussion14:19
ajoI suggested a cross neutron/nova one, but not sure if we have slots for cross-project stuff14:19
mesteryThat's about all I have for Mitaka14:19
* regXboi feels mestery weilding clue brick :)14:19
mesteryajo: There is a cross-project track, but we could use one of our slots.14:19
regXboier wielding14:19
mesteryajo: Anything specific for there?14:19
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mesteryajo: I would think perhaps a "brick" like library for nova to use for neutron interactions?14:20
ajomestery: the neutron/nova QoS integration14:20
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mesteryThat was discussed in Vancouver14:20
mesteryajo: Ah, that too :)14:20
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ajowe have scheduling bits to be accounted from the nova side14:20
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ihrachysajo: haven't we discussed it on one of the qos meetings with nova folks?14:20
ajo(more than accounted, taken care of..) we already are discussing in meetings, but slow progress14:20
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ihrachysah scheduler. ok.14:20
ajoihrachys: yes, but still no resolution on that part, it seemed to need a broader discussion14:21
ihrachysI would suggest not to wait for summit though and start on ML14:21
mesteryOK, so this seems like a good candidate ajo and ihrachys  :)14:21
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mestery#topic Open Discussion14:22
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking)"14:22
mesteryShortest. Meeting. Ever.14:22
mesteryI just jinxed myself :)14:22
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regXboi mestery: yes you did - I can hear murphy laughing all the way to the time clock14:22
ajomestery: (about the brick) yes we talked about a nova pluggable thing on the scheduler we could provide from neutron, but it seems that's far, and may be needing a short term solution until that's ready14:22
ajoregXboi :)14:22
mesteryajo: Ack sir, makes sense14:23
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sc68calanything that touches nova-scheduler enters a warp in space time, where percieved time is slower than real time14:23
ajosc68cal lol14:23
sc68cal^ this14:23
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* sc68cal got a huge physics refresher from regXboi at the QA sprint. his mind is blown still14:24
ajothey have low gravity14:24
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emaganamestery: ajo and myself are working on the QoS chapter. Thanks to ihrachys for the reviews but more eyes on it will not hurt!14:24
regXboisc68cal: that was only a few years of physics ...14:24
mesteryemagana: Excellent!14:24
ihrachysemagana: link!14:24
emagana#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/221990/14:24
ihrachysno links == no eyes14:25
emaganaihrachys: how many eyes per times the link is posted  :-)14:25
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mesteryOK, well, next week we'll have a new PTL running this meeting. Exciting!14:25
* ihrachys smiles14:25
emaganaGoos luck to the candidates!!!14:25
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jckaspermestery: I added Horizon topic to bottom of On Demand Agenda late yesterday14:26
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ajogood luck!! :)14:26
emaganaGoos = Good14:26
* regXboi mutters *almost got it that time*14:26
mesteryjckasper: Well, that ruins my huge exit, but pleae go ahead :)14:26
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jckasperHorizon updated the network topology diagram last week14:26
mestery#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/curvature-network-topology14:26
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jckasperNew diagram quite a bit diff than old design.   some items lacking (in my opinion)14:27
mesteryjckasper: You're looking for review, rights?14:27
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jckaspermestery: wanting to see if anyone else has concerns over new design14:28
emaganacurvature things sounds familiar to me14:28
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* mestery looks14:28
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fawadkhaliqemagana: +114:28
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dougwiggot a screenshot handy?14:28
robcresswellIt was demo'd in a summit about 2 years ago. It's actually been merged into Horizon at this point, but would be great to hear feedback.14:28
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amuller_screenshot: http://imgur.com/a/qddWB14:28
mesteryjckasper: So, we're moving to the curvature version instead of the normal one?14:29
neiljerramscreenshot looks nice!14:29
jckaspermestery: already moved14:29
amotokiit is a replacement of the legacy one14:29
mesteryjckasper: Yikes, so your concerns are somewhat valid.14:29
xgermanneiljerram +114:29
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mesteryOK, well, it will be interesting!14:30
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neiljerramSo what specificatlly is lacking?14:30
mesteryCurvature itself is pretty cool from what I remember back in Portland, glad to see it got merged into Horizon!14:30
jckaspermestery: new layout does not show IP address or CIDRs unless you drill down14:30
emaganamestery: +114:30
* regXboi will likely have comments later today - especially after testing the DNS patch :)14:30
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regXboisince I'll be spinning 100 tenants in a cloud for that DNS patch, I'll see what I think of the net topo under scale :)14:31
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robcresswellDrop into #openstack-horizon if oyu have any concerns and we'll try to address them.14:31
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neiljerramjckasper: if that's the only thing, sounds acceptable to me.14:31
jckasperflyover pop-ups seem to be missing from old layout. but that is minor14:31
emaganajckasper: is this enabled by default in horizon?14:31
mesteryI'd like to see regXboi's scale testing as well14:31
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xgermanjckasper does it show load balancers?14:31
jckasperyes.  it is enabled by default.14:31
regXboimestery: I'll try and do a screen shot when I'm done14:31
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jckasperxgerman: not sure how they are represented14:32
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jckasperxgerman: would be a good thing to try out.14:32
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xgermanyep - along with Firewall14:33
jckasperregXboi: I'm also wondering how DVR will be displayed too14:33
mesteryAnd VPN xgerman :)14:33
regXboijckasper: that's not something I'm looking at with respect to the DNS patch, so I won't be able to say today14:33
amotokijohnsom: even you use DVR, it is one logical router14:33
amotokijckasper: ^^14:33
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doug-fishwere these things (load balancer, vpn, firewall) represented in the previous network topology UI?14:33
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robcresswellHorizon core invasion :p14:34
xgermanI am always hoping for new features14:34
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doug-fishI don't think they were, but wanted to double check14:34
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dougwigdoug-fish:they were not14:34
amotokidoug-fish: no they were not.14:34
jckasperamotoki: but DVR typically can have multiple router interfaces.  not sure how that is represented14:34
doug-fishok cool14:34
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amotokijckasper: i got you point. need to check the detail, but IIRC there is no difference from legacy ones.14:35
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mesteryOK, thanks horizon folks for bringing this to our attention!14:36
mesteryAnd with that, lets shut this thing down. :)14:36
mesteryKeep focused on those remaining RC bugs14:36
* dougwig waves14:37
mesteryAnd if new ones are found14:37
mesteryPlease let me know ASAP14:37
mesteryI'll be on the hunt as well :)14:37
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"14:37
* regXboi watches mestery ride off into the sunset14:37
openstackMeeting ended Tue Sep 22 14:37:15 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)14:37
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-09-22-14.00.html14:37
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-09-22-14.00.txt14:37
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-09-22-14.00.log.html14:37
* mestery hops on his harley14:37
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regXboi"who was that masked stranger???"14:37
mlavallemestery: congrats on leading your last irc meeting as PTL :-)14:37
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mesterymlavalle: :D14:37
xgermanwe will  miss you14:38
gongysh_ajo: now the qos is just for egress traffic, right?14:38
emaganaciao ciao14:38
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ajogongysh_, yes sorry14:38
ajofor this release, only VM egress14:38
ajoalready looking at ingress too14:39
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ajoand more flexible ways of configuring bw limiter on ports14:39
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gongysh_ajo: how to guarantee the minimum bandwidth?14:39
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ajogongysh_, with the qos min: primitives for qos policies14:40
ajobut, those can only be used for switch egress (VM ingress)14:41
ajoI'm investigating how to do it the other way around too14:41
ajogongysh_: also, doing a non-best-effort guarantee needs nova-scheduler collaboration14:41
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ajoto avoid overcommiting a host/interface14:41
gongysh_ajo:  yes14:41
ajoand also HP shown a more elaborate way coordinating compute nodes14:41
ajofor non flow controlled protocols like UDP14:42
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morganajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, ericksonsantos, geoffarnold, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, joesavak, lbragstad, lhcheng, marekd, morganfainberg, nkinder, raildo, rharwood, rodrigods, roxanaghe, samueldmq, stevemar, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong, claudiub https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting17:59
morgancourtesy ping ^17:59
ayoungOyez Oyez17:59
lbragstadmorgan: o/17:59
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ayoungmorgan, this one, one more, and you can abdicate...17:59
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morganayoung: this is the last one.17:59
morgannew PTL will be minted on thursday17:59
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ayoungI thought elections ran through the 3rd of OCtober?18:00
morganPTL is just until this thursday18:00
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morgansooooo with that.18:00
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morgan#startmeeting keystone18:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Sep 22 18:00:38 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is morgan. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:00
* bknudson waves18:00
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* stevemar waves back at bknudson18:00
henrynashsinks below waves18:00
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morgan#topic RC118:01
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*** openstack changes topic to "RC1 (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:01
morganLets get this show going.18:01
morganSo... we are at RC1.18:01
morganthe patch that opens Mitaka development is in the gate18:01
ayoung1 minunte dance party18:01
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morganwe should be ready for the next cycle to begin in ~20-50minutes18:02
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morganPlease review open bugs and tag them with rc-potential if they really are RC blockers18:02
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stevemar\o\ /o/ \o\ /o/ --> dance party for ayoung18:02
morganI also added the liberty-backport-potential tag18:02
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morganso, feel free to use that as well18:02
ayoungHop hop hooray18:02
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stevemarcool, so anything that pops up we should file a bug, tag it, fix it for master and backport it18:03
morgan#topic yes18:03
*** openstack changes topic to "yes (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:03
openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x9cc2550>18:03
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morgankeep your eyes on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/226356/18:03
morganonce that is merged we are good to go on mitaka18:04
ayoungAnd with that, our focus shifts to the Mitaka release18:04
morgan#topic New PTL Next Week18:04
*** openstack changes topic to "New PTL Next Week (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:04
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ayoungIf you have not yet votes, go and do so RIGHT NOW!18:04
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morganI don't know who the next PTL will be, but I am confident that ayoung, dstanek, or stevemar will do a fantastic job18:04
dolphmjust a general reminder: anyone can and should propose backports for stable/* branches after fixes merge to master. just want to mention this because there seems to be a general aversion to backporting things that shouldn't exist.18:04
* stevemar thinks we should have a bug squash day or two - before the craziness of the summit sets in18:04
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morganGo vote if you have not voted18:04
ayoungstevemar, ++18:05
morgandolphm ++18:05
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morganDo Propose things to stable18:05
morganthere are a few of us who can merge stable fixes, but it's really hard if we are also the ones proposing18:05
lbragstadstevemar: ++18:05
dstanekstevemar: you must have read my PTL proposal!18:05
henrynashif only we had a Crosby and a Stills,….then I’d run with ayoung!18:05
stevemaryes, its super easy to do, theres a button for it in the master code review18:05
dolphmmorgan: ++18:05
ayoungThere is a Stills out there in Neutron land18:05
morganso as of next week I will not be PTL for keystone18:05
lbragstadbknudson: didn't you want to do a test hackathon day? (did that ever happen?)18:06
stevemardstanek: i did! i was thinking about it for a while now, we had a small one for osc a while back18:06
morganI will be around but taking a breather as the next PTL steps up18:06
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morganto whomever wins... enjoy the next 2 days before the deluge of PTL tasks cascades down on you18:06
bknudsonlbragstad: I did, but I got too busy to organize it, and I figured we were focusing on bug fixes.18:06
dolphmmorgan: lol ++18:06
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morgan#topic Open Discussion18:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:07
dstanekstevemar: PTL or not i'd like to help organize some events like that18:07
morganwe can talk about things here *or* call the meeting 53 minutes early18:07
ayoungGet your thoughts together on how we want to organize the Keystone time at the Summit18:07
dstanekstevemar: i've enjoyed hackathon at my previous employer18:07
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bknudsonwe should hackathon every day18:07
stevemarbknudson: if only that were possible18:08
ayoungbknudson, that is called "Death March"18:08
* morgan is all about giving 50+ minutes back to everyone as his last official meeting act while PTL18:08
morgangoing once.18:08
morgangoing twice18:08
stevemarmorgan: sure, dstanek and i can talk bug squash stuff in -keystone18:08
ayoungWe should to a post-mortem18:08
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morganlets go to -keystone and continue there.18:08
lbragstadbknudson: stevemar should we take some time to organize another hackathon?18:08
morganbug stuff and/or post-mortem18:08
stevemarwait wait18:08
morgananyone who wants to join can.18:09
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ayoungwhat keys is this in!18:09
morganstevemar ?18:09
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stevemarmorgan: THANKS for everything!!!!!!!!!!! :)18:09
gyeespeaking of backport, can somebody please give it a gentle pull? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/205595/18:09
henrynashstevemar: ++18:09
morganto -keystone we go18:09
lbragstadstevemar: i know bknudson had a bunch of stuff he wanted to knock out wrt testing...18:09
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"18:09
openstackMeeting ended Tue Sep 22 18:09:40 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:09
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-09-22-18.00.html18:09
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-09-22-18.00.txt18:09
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-09-22-18.00.log.html18:09
ayounggyee, will do18:09
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morgan this was #shortestmeetingever18:09
morganeveryone enjoy your 50 minutes extra18:10
ayounggyee, actually, I don't have permissions to do that.  morgan think it needs to be you, but it is correct18:10
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* morgan waves to infra folks ( jeblair, fungi, anteaya, and so so many more ) I wont be holding up your meeting slot anymore and today... definitely not! :)18:11
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jeblairmorgan: nice mic drop :)18:12
morganjeblair: ^_^18:13
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fungiwow. that's a really short keystone meeting18:14
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stevemartopol: you are so late18:21
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topolI saw that... Detention for me again18:22
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topolstevemar, I don't feel tardy18:22
stevemarfungi: the benefit of hosting your last meeting as ptl when your project is already rc ready18:22
stevemartopol: we just move fast18:22
fungistevemar: yep. gripping the edge of my seat for thursday's pronouncement18:23
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* Clint sneezes.19:00
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* fungi stands around trying to look like he belongs here19:01
* olaph throws a goat at Shrews, then lurks19:01
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anteayafungi: do you go for hands in pockets for that look?19:01
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jeblairhowdy infra folks19:01
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anteayahey SergeyLukjanov, nice to see you19:02
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fungihowdy doctor nick!19:02
SergeyLukjanovanteaya, hey :)19:02
jeblair#startmeeting infra19:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Sep 22 19:02:27 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:02
jeblair#link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting19:02
jeblair#link previous meeting http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-09-15-19.02.html19:02
jeblair#topic Announcements19:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)"19:02
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jeblair#info fungi is the new PTL19:03
jeblairyay fungi!19:03
pleia2all hail fungi!19:03
fungiyou're announcing it ahead of the election officials19:03
pleia2and thank you for all your work, jeblair :)19:03
fungibut close enough ;)19:03
anteayayes, thank you jeblair19:03
jheskethcongrats :-)19:03
AJaegerfungi: thanks for leading us - and thanks to jeblair as well!19:03
nibalizerfungi: congratulations19:03
fungiyes, thanks jeblair! we'll expect you to work on fun things now19:04
pabelangerfungi: congrats19:04
nibalizeryes thanks to jeblair as well19:04
jeblairfungi: right, assuming you don't find a way to late-disqualify yourself :)19:04
SotKfungi: congrats19:04
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clarkbnow you have to plan a summit, get on it :P19:04
Zarafungi is our new overlord! \o/19:04
fungii just planned the summit. you won't like it though19:04
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jasondotstarcongrats fungi!! \o/19:04
jeblairfungi: i bet it's on a beach19:04
anteayafungi: I'll like tokyo19:04
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fungiin seriousness, i'll take care of boring things like brainstorming our summit sessions soon19:05
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fungiso be on the lookout for e-mails asking for ideas19:05
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jeblairand a new meeting chair next week :)19:06
fungiyeah, that19:07
jeblairbut wait, there's more:19:07
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anteayajeblair: you are just having too much fun19:07
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jeblair#info adding nibalizer to infra-core/root19:08
jeblair#info adding yolanda to infra-core/root19:08
mmmporkcongrats to the new roots!!!!!!!!!!19:08
pleia2congrats nibalizer and yolanda19:08
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nibalizer:) thanks19:08
Zara:) congrats!19:08
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zarocool, new cores to bug!19:09
jheskethnibalizer, pleia2: congrats :-)19:09
jeblairthey know our sysadminy puppet stuff (is that the right term?) as well as anyone19:09
pleia2your experience downstream will continue to be a massive benefit to us :)19:09
AJaegerGreat.Welcome, nibalizer and yolanda! Will be good to have more European coverage.19:09
jeblairand have experience running a similar system19:09
nibalizerjeblair: as good a term as any19:09
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fungi(in related news, nibalizer moves to europe!)19:09
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anteayagood food there19:10
anteayaand trains19:10
pabelanger /me claps19:10
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fungibut yes, thanks nibalizer and yolanda for agreeing to take on additional responsibilities there19:10
jeblair#action nibalizer propose change adding nibalizer to infra-root19:10
jeblair#action yolanda propose change adding yolanda to infra-root19:10
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* nibalizer immediately breaks something19:11
anteayanibalizer: well done19:11
pleia2as it should be19:11
fungiif only that were also an action item19:11
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jheskethimplied action19:11
jheskethor rite of way19:11
anteayaha ha ha19:11
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fungiwhen you're root, you're expected to fix whatever you break. fair warning ;)19:11
jeblairfungi: ++19:11
nibalizerfungi: ++19:12
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jeblairi'm announced out19:12
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jeblair#topic Actions from last meeting19:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:12
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jeblairjeblair automate some sort of mass contact attempt for stackforge move19:12
jeblair#action jeblair automate some sort of mass contact attempt for stackforge move19:12
jeblair:( sorry19:12
pleia2it's ok, you have time19:13
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jheskethno need to apologise19:13
jeblair#topic Specs approval: Translation check site spec (pleia2)19:13
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval: Translation check site spec (pleia2) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:13
jeblair#link Translation check site spec https://review.openstack.org/#/c/184559/19:13
pleia2so this was discussed at the last summit during a translations session19:13
pleia2I've worked through several revisions with them on this spec, and I think it's finally in a place to get rolling19:14
fungiyep, seemed like a neat idea19:14
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fungistill does19:14
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jeblaircool, anyone think it needs more time?19:15
fungipleia2: is the idea to continuously deploy devstack? any ideas on how to deal with the times when devstack is broken?19:15
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clarkbI am curious why we need to run cirros instances19:15
pleia2fungi: likely some kind a daily refresh rather than CD, I think on broken nights during our periodic refresh that day it's just broken19:16
anteayapleia2: what is the assignee's irc nick?19:16
clarkbwould it be better to use the fake nova backend? I Thought that was the original plan19:16
fungipleia2: wfm19:16
pleia2clarkb: that's a good point, I think I missed that as a holdover from a previous spec version where they actually wanted to launch them19:16
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fungialso, seems like some of us (myself included) should have found time to review it and asked our questions there19:16
pleia2we only agreed to noop19:17
clarkbyes we probably should have19:17
pleia2well, we can review and revisit next week if we want19:17
clarkbbut better late than never I hope19:17
fungibut also those are probably minor details which could be worked out in implementation if nobody objects19:17
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anteayaI have no objection to not knowing the assignee's irc nick19:17
clarkbthe general plan is good to me19:17
anteayajust makes them easier to recognize19:17
clarkblooks like fake is used in some places so its just internal doc inconsistency that can be ironed out19:18
jeblairclarkb: where is cirros?19:18
jeblairclarkb: yeah, i think we're seeing the same thing19:18
pleia2anteaya: DeeJay1, but I usually interact with him in person (at summits) and via email because time zones19:18
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clarkbjeblair: under Servers19:18
clarkbits typoed to cirrus19:18
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jeblairclarkb: ah.19:19
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fungii totally don't expect the spec author to have enough of a crystal ball to figure out in advance how we're going to refresh devstack deployments reliably. it will likely take at least a couple tries to get right19:19
anteayapleia2: ah okay thanks19:19
clarkbfungi: agreed19:19
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jeblairyeah, i think 'fake' outnumbers cirros, so maybe it's just a holdover.  probably we can send it to vote and then clarify in a followup.19:19
clarkbjeblair: wfm19:20
* nibalizer nods19:20
jeblair(if it specifically said cirros everywhere, i'd think it was enough of a misunderstanding to make it worth clarifying in advance)19:20
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jeblair#info Translation check site spec voting open until 2015-09-24 19:00 UTC19:20
pleia2if you look at past revisions, we had a lot of discussion about the fake point19:20
pleia2mostly them saying "we need" and me saying "nope"19:20
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jeblairpleia2: ++19:21
anteayapleia2: nice work19:21
jeblairpleia2: and thanks!19:21
jeblair#topic Schedule Project Renames19:21
*** openstack changes topic to "Schedule Project Renames (Meeting topic: infra)"19:21
jeblairaside from my lack of progress, anything else we need to discuss re stackforge/oct 17?19:21
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fungiwe're still on track for "the big rename" afaik19:21
anteayajeblair: you are working on communication19:22
anteayais anyone working on automating the workflow?19:22
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jeblairanteaya: ah yes, thanks!19:22
jeblairanteaya: i threatened to ask for volunteers for that this week19:22
fungithere was one recent thread on the -dev ml about "incubating in stackforge" which i mostly just pointed back to the announcement19:22
anteayajeblair: oh good19:22
jasondotstaranteaya: I'm looking at the rename stuff19:22
anteayajasondotstar: any status?19:22
jasondotstarno progress on it in the last couple days :-(19:22
anteayawell see I've looked at mordred's code before too19:23
jasondotstarattempting to make progress on puppetizing zaqar19:23
fungijasondotstar: anything we should be doing to help? blocked on input?19:23
anteayait never gave me an end result19:23
mordredoh! timezone fail19:23
anteayajasondotstar: no idea how that relates to the conversation19:23
jasondotstarit doesn't. just mentioning my bandwidth issues19:23
jeblairspecifically, i think we need a script that will generate the gerrit change to modify all the necessary files in project config.  that's mostly a read/write yaml config files change, or possibly just 'string substitution in files' change.19:23
jeblairjasondotstar: is that on your radar, or are you looking at the ansible component?19:24
jasondotstarwe've captures some conversations about how go about it on an etherpad19:24
AJaegersome of the files we need to touch are sorted alphabetically, so we need to resort them.19:24
jasondotstarjeblair: yes, it is on my radar19:24
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jeblairjasondotstar: cool, have an etherpad link?19:24
funginow that we don't embed a separate github-org parameter in jenkins jobs, a straight up stream edit will likely suffice19:24
jeblairAJaeger: ah good point, not simple string substitution.19:24
jeblairfor some of them at least19:24
fungistream edit followed by normalization script19:25
jeblairfungi: ah right, we have that part scripted19:25
jasondotstaryep: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/project-renames-Septemeber-201519:25
jeblairokay, so this shouldn't be too hard19:25
fungifor most of those alpha order things we have the scripts already written to do the ordering since they get run in our check jobs at least19:25
jasondotstarjeblair: nope19:25
jasondotstarjeblair: it shouldn't.19:25
jeblairjasondotstar: that looks like the steps we used for the last rename19:26
jasondotstarthere's another link too, sry19:26
fungioh, also some git mv (acl files changing directories?)19:26
fungiso, yes, there are likely several steps to the transformation regardless19:26
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* jasondotstar digs in his notes...19:26
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jasondotstarhmmm... mordred and I had a brief discussion here: http://paste.openstack.org/show/sv12yQ7uwhitRVX0INkV/19:29
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fungi#link http://paste.openstack.org/show/sv12yQ7uwhitRVX0INkV/19:29
jasondotstarperhaps we need to gather the input from all sources and execute accordingly.19:30
jeblair(that paste is not immediately loading for me)19:30
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anteayait the bots file for paste active yet?19:30
fungiyeah, it finally loaded for me. looking at paste.o.o to see why it's struggling again19:30
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jasondotstarfungi: it loaded for me once. now it's bombing.19:31
anteayaah not yet: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/226091/19:31
jasondotstarand, it's back.19:31
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jeblairjasondotstar: got it; that seems to be mostly about the ansible stuff, which maps to steps 5-8, 12, and 16 on the september etherpad19:32
jeblairjasondotstar: the project-config script would generate the change needed in steps 1 and 1419:33
fungi#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/project-renames-Septemeber-201519:33
jasondotstarjeblair: correct. I failed to mention that we were talking just about the ansiblizing actions19:33
jeblairjasondotstar: (which should be similar to all those changes listed at the top of the etherpad)19:33
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jeblairjasondotstar: okay, but you're on the project-config change too, right?  that's great if you are, but i don't want to overload you and we can find another victim if you're too pressed for time.19:34
jasondotstarlet's get an extra set of hands for that part if we can19:34
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jasondotstarthat way the other non-related item *cough* zaqar *cough* I can still continue making headway on19:35
fungii'd say i'll do that part, but i also just recently volunteered for something else with a minimum 6-month commitment so would rather wait and see if there are any other takers19:36
jeblairmmmpork: ?19:36
jeblairClint: ?19:36
* jeblair looks for people who raised their hands at the beginning of the meeting :)19:36
Clintjeblair: just s/stackforge/openstack/ and sort?19:36
fungiClint: and some git mv19:36
mmmporkjeblair: i messaged jasondotstar privately19:36
Clintyeah, sure19:36
fungiand then others will review and poke holes in the methodology used. lather, rinse, repeat19:37
mmmporki don't have a lot of experience with ansible but if there are smaller tasks i can take on that would be helpful then i'm happy to19:37
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fungithe project config change will be, like zero ansible19:38
clarkbjust string manipulation (please don't write it in perl)19:38
clarkbor I suppose yaml data structures can be treated as such too19:38
mmmporkclarkb: why not :D19:39
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Clintbecause he wants haskell and only haskell19:39
mmmporkoh right, i can get on board with that19:39
fungithe trick is that we have a growing wikified list of repos some of which need renaming and some of which need retiring19:39
clarkbwell mostly because then next time we need to do this someone else will have to rewrite it19:39
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mmmporkclarkb: i know, i kid ;D19:39
clarkb(please no next time too)19:39
anteayaclarkb: ah utopia19:40
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fungithough i suppose we could also rename the ones we're retiring, i don't know if that matters as much since they're being retired anyway19:40
anteayawas that not covered in the resolution?19:40
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anteayaah it isn't19:41
jeblairokay, it's a close race, but i think Clint wins... we'll put him in charge of the script effort; mmmpork why don't you work with Clint and contribute or take over the effort, whatever works for the two of you :)19:41
jeblair#action Clint write script to prepare project-config change for migration19:41
mmmporkyes! i will happily serve as minion19:41
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* Clint chuckles.19:42
jeblairClint, mmmpork, jasondotstar: thanks!19:42
anteayafungi: just that the stackforge/ name shall henceforth not exist19:42
* mmmpork sharpens her regex knives19:42
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fungianteaya: emphasis on the "henceforth" because it's an awesome word19:42
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jeblairanteaya: yeah, my understanding is retired projects just become read-only in stackforge19:43
anteayafungi: I look for an opportunity to squeeze it in whereever I can19:43
* jasondotstar never gets to use the word henceforth in a sentence. Has a sad.19:43
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anteayajeblair: okay then, and you wrote the resolution, so wfm19:43
jeblair(otherwise it feels a bit revisionist)19:43
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jeblair#topic Priority Efforts (Swift Logs)19:44
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Swift Logs) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:44
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jeblairwe have completely failed to review this change19:44
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jeblair#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214207/19:44
jheskethyep, so nothing further from me19:44
jhesketheyes would be appreciated19:44
jeblair#action everyone review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214207/19:44
anteayaha ha ha19:45
jeblair#topic Priority Efforts (Migration to Zanata)19:45
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Migration to Zanata) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:45
jeblair#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/225945/19:45
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jeblairthis is an easy one :)19:45
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pleia2this depends on a doc change that needs to land, but that's the last piece!19:45
jheskethheh, excellent19:45
AJaegeryeah, we're in the cleanup and fix surprises phase ;)19:46
pleia2we're still doing fiddly bits with scripts to work on perfection, but no need to hold up the spec19:46
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pleia2AJaeger: hah, yeah19:46
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jeblaircool! ++19:46
anteayawell done everyone19:46
fungiwhat was the deal with the pot file uploads for the ibm branch in zanata ending up getting imported into gerrit changes? is there a bug we need to handle in our scripts there?19:46
anteayaa long time to the finish line19:46
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clarkbpleia2: ya I don't think the version support needs to go in the specas that was sort of last minute hey wewant this19:46
pleia2fungi: fix landed this morning19:46
AJaegerfungi: fixed already ;)19:47
fungioh, neat19:47
pleia2fungi: unfortunate zanata default for us :\19:47
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AJaegerfungi: See http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-i18n/2015-September/001437.html19:47
* fungi turns his etch-a-sketch over and shakes vigorously19:47
* AJaeger is still not sure what is the proper solution.19:47
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AJaegerCopying of translations sounds like a nice feature - but it broke the esoteric use case we whad with IBM imports19:47
* pleia2 nods19:47
clarkbits a semi fix though19:48
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clarkbanyone else can push docs to zanata and trigger it19:48
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clarkbDaisy said she would talk to Zanata about making it a bit more configurable so we can avoid it in these cases19:49
anteayaAJaeger: nicely organized email19:49
jeblair#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-i18n/2015-September/001437.html19:49
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jeblairi guess we're waiting on feedback then19:51
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pleia2yeah, it's night time for most of our translations friends19:51
jeblair#topic Third-party OSes support in devstack-gate (eantyshev)19:52
*** openstack changes topic to "Third-party OSes support in devstack-gate (eantyshev) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:52
pleia2I'm out of the office for a holiday tomorrow, but others can chime in19:52
anteayawas this from last week?19:52
ianwi had a look at this review, it's fine19:52
* anteaya can't remember19:52
clarkbya what review?19:52
clarkbeantyshev2: ^19:52
jeblair#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-September/073380.html19:52
ianwbut i also think we can make it a bit easier -> https://review.openstack.org/22498919:53
fungi(or just the review number even)19:53
jeblair#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/215029/19:53
eantyshev2Hi! here is the review: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/215029/19:53
anteayaeantyshev2: wants infra to support an os he uses for his third party ci19:53
anteayaeantyshev2: here you are19:53
jeblairianw: (you do have a -1 on 029)19:53
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eantyshev2anteaya, not exactly19:53
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anteayaeantyshev2: do share then, I didn't think you were here19:53
eantyshev2just want possibility for devstack-gate to run on OSes which it cannot recognize19:54
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tchaypoI’d phrase it as “we want the possibility to explicitly tell devstack-gate which OS it should believe it’s on"19:54
tchaypois that accurate?19:54
anteayaeantyshev2: can expand on your motivation for wanting this?19:54
fungiwe're generally not in favor of cross-platforming just for the sake of it, since if we won't test support for a particular platform regularly it will rapidly bitrot and break19:55
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ianwi don't think we need to argue over this too much19:55
anteayaianw: I don't think we are arguing19:55
fungiby we i mean i, and by extension the opinions i've seen from others19:55
anteayaI think most of infra don't know why eantyshev2 wants this19:55
ianwsee my comments, i think my version covers centos, fedora, and the extra distros19:55
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* jhesketh has to depart a couple of minutes early sorry. Bye!19:56
anteayajhesketh: thanks for being here!19:56
jeblairfungi: i agree, and devstack-gate is very complicated.  however, it sounds like maybe this can be accomplished without any real special casing or extra complexity....19:56
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fungiif it's a good generalization that seems fine, but i don't think we can honestly claim to have support for platforms we don't test19:56
ianwif we require more extensive branching in the future, we can cross that bridge, but we don't need to optimize for that19:56
eantyshev2ianw, you solution would be great for me if it is accepted here19:56
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ianwok, so please just some eyes on19:57
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ianw#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/224989/19:57
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ianwit will help out 3rd party users19:58
fungi224989 is, indeed a bunch of comment and replacing a couple lines19:58
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anteayaare one of you willing to clearly state the problem this is solving?19:58
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ianwanteaya: 3rd party testing on rhel-derived distros19:58
Clintanteaya: it's changing a whitelist of [fedora,centos] to "does this thing have working rpm"19:59
ianwcloudos, orcalelinux, etc19:59
anteayawhich affect whom?19:59
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mordredit's like moving from imake to autoconf, tbh19:59
ianw3rd parties who are trying to test on rhel derived distros :)19:59
anteayaso far the only third party operator affected by this is eantyshev219:59
mordredtest the capability, don't trust a declared list of things19:59
fungiwell, does this think have working rpm with a /etc/*-release file managed in an rpm19:59
fungiwhich helps weed out things like debian with the rpm package installed19:59
Clintunless you've done something crazy19:59
clarkb(like google did)20:00
* fungi will reserve judgement on what crazy is20:00
jeblairthat's time20:00
anteayathank you20:00
eantyshev2anteaya: there are many cases, when third-party CI maintainers cannot use devstack-gate as-is20:00
jeblairthanks everyone, sorry to the folks whose topics we didn't get to20:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:00
tchaypoI don’t think we need to claim to have support for other platforms; if we do something like 215029 but change the variable name to be something like “EXPERIMENTAL_…” or “UNSUPPORTED_…” that should make it clear that we’re not the platforms you can poke with this aren’t supported20:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Sep 22 20:00:27 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-09-22-19.02.html20:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-09-22-19.02.txt20:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-09-22-19.02.log.html20:00
Clint-> #-infra20:00
anteayaeantyshev2: you are the only one I have heard from20:00
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anteayaeantyshev2: will continue in the -infra channel20:00
* ttx multitasks with RC1 creation20:00
ttxAnyone here for the TC meeting ?20:00
jeblairttx: o/20:01
* edleafe lurks as usual20:01
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* Rockyg as usual, too20:01
ttxjgriffith, annegentle, lifeless, dtroyer, markmcclain, jaypipes, dhellmann: around ?20:01
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* mordred hands Rockyg and edleafe a bowl of popped-corn20:01
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ttx#startmeeting tc20:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Sep 22 20:01:44 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"20:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'20:01
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* edleafe munches on said popped-corn20:01
ttxAgenda for this Technical committee meeting lives at:20:01
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee20:01
* Rockyg munches quietly and licks my fingers20:02
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ttxLet's start easy20:02
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ttx#topic Cross-project spec final approval: Return request ID to caller20:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Cross-project spec final approval: Return request ID to caller (Meeting topic: tc)"20:02
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/156508/20:02
ttxThis was discussed at multiple cross-project meetings, lastly last week20:02
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ttxIt apparently has consensus now and needs our final approval on it20:02
ttxAny objection to final approval on this one ?20:02
* flaper87 is good with it20:03
* devananda noshes on raspberries and lurks in the back20:03
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lifelessI stopped tracking it once it got into fine tuning territory20:03
jgriffithI don't really have any objection... but one thing I'm not qutie sure on20:03
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jgriffithwell... never mind20:03
jgriffithI get it20:03
sdagueconceptually it's good, some of the details will probably fall out when trying to do the actual work, as the apiclient bits in oslo are kind of crufty20:03
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sdagueI left that as a comment in the review20:04
ttxsdague: yeah, I figured that much20:04
ttxok, approving then20:04
dimssdague: i want to nuke oslo-incubator in M :)20:04
sdaguedims: yeh, also that :)20:04
sdaguebut the concept is good20:04
Rockygdims, yay!20:04
sdaguethey should move ahead on it20:04
flaper87dims: +120:04
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ttxwork on that was started on February 17, so nice persistence from Abhishek20:04
* annegentle highfives Abhishek20:05
ttxnow for more fun20:05
ttx#topic Handling project teams with no candidate PTLs20:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Handling project teams with no candidate PTLs (Meeting topic: tc)"20:05
ttxSo... we have a number of teams with no PTL candidates in the official timeframe20:05
* sergmelikyan sighs 20:05
ttxThankfully we have a defined way to address that:20:05
annegentleit's okay sergmelikyan :)20:05
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ttx#link http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20141128-elections-process-for-leaderless-programs.html20:05
ttxLet's consider them one by one, starting with simpler ones20:05
ttx* Security20:06
ttxThe liberty PTL (Robert Clark) pushed his candidacy after the deadline, no other self-nomination20:06
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ttxAny other suggestion ?20:06
lifelesstake him20:06
dhellmannyeah, this seems like an easy one20:06
flaper87I think this sounds like an easy call20:06
ttx#agreed Robert Clark nominated PTL for the Security Team in Mitaka20:06
ttx* Murano20:06
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ttxThe liberty PTL (Serg Melikyan) pushed his candidacy after the deadline, no other self-nomination20:06
ttxAny other suggestion ?20:06
jgriffithNope... take sergmelikyan20:07
ttx#agreed Serg Melikyan nominated PTL for the Murano Team in Mitaka20:07
* markmcclain-mobi sneaks in late20:07
sergmelikyanthank you!20:07
ttx* Barbican20:07
ttxThe liberty PTL (Douglas Mendizabal) confirmed he missed the deadline. Couldn't find any other self-nomination20:07
ttxhe is redrobot on irc20:07
ttxAny other suggestion ?20:07
mordredredrobot: you wanna be PTL?20:07
lifelessmordred: self nomination implies that, no?20:07
redrobotmordred indeed.  my calendar skills were not up to par this election20:08
jgriffithredrobot: yeah, do you want to do it?20:08
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annegentlemordred: I think he does, is there a patch?20:08
flaper87if there's no other nomination, take him!20:08
mordredlifeless: oh, sorry. I mis-read ttx's statement20:08
annegentleredrobot: great!20:08
ttx#agreed Douglas Mendizabal nominated PTL for the Barbican Team in Mitaka20:08
ttx* Magnum20:08
ttxThe liberty PTL (Adrian Otto) pushed his candidacy after the deadline. A challenger (Hongbin Lu) also stepped up.20:08
jgriffithmordred: me too, interpretted as he "would if nobody else did"20:08
ttxSo for that one we have to choose. We can choose one of them, someone else, or run an election with those two20:08
annegentleI'd like an election20:08
russellbelection +120:09
dhellmannif they both still want to do it, we should have an election20:09
flaper87I'd vote election20:09
russellbdhellmann: +120:09
annegentleflaper87: nice20:09
dtroyerhas anyone talked to either of them?  do they both still want it?20:09
adrian_ottohave you asked Hongbin if he wants an election?20:09
annegentleare our election officials up for that?20:09
hongbinyes I want20:09
ttxwith those two candidates, right ? No new nomination period ?20:09
annegentledtroyer: I have talked to Adrian and he's up for it20:09
dhellmannttx: right20:09
annegentlettx: yes20:09
sdaguettx: yes20:09
dhellmannhongbin: ok, thanks for confirming20:09
ttx#agreed An election should be held for Magnum contributors to pick their PTL with the two late candidacies in20:09
annegentlesounds good hongbin20:09
dtroyerok, both are confirmed then ,thx20:09
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ttx* MagnetoDB20:10
annegentlethanks for your willingness hongbin!20:10
jgriffithttx: +1 to no new nomination period20:10
ttxNo candidacy for that one.20:10
ttxWe can confirm the current ptl, volunteer someone, or fast-track its removal from the Big Tent (next topic)20:10
tristanCannegentle: I guess we could also ran that election yes, can it wait after TC rounds ?20:10
russellbfast track removal20:10
sdaguefast track removal20:10
ttxI think I prefer the latter20:10
flaper87fast track removal20:10
annegentletristanC: I think it can wait and will avoid confusion20:10
ttxtristanC: would be better to start it asap if possible20:10
jgriffithfast track removal20:10
ttxtristanC: your call20:10
annegentletristanC: or run it this week if possible20:10
dhellmannwe should mothball magnetodb, but didn't we need to hold onto the repo names for ATC status calculations?20:10
ttxannegentle: We kinda need a Mitaka PTL to prepare the design summit asap20:11
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tristanCthat's is doable, I'll check that with tony in a few hours20:11
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annegentlettx: ah, true, hadn't considered that20:11
ttxIf we agree on fasttrack removal, we can move to the next topic20:11
sdagueso, I'd also like to say I consider all these projects in the dog house, and if they miss deadlines again next time I'm not convinced we should just wave it off20:11
annegentleno need for a PTL if there's no project right?20:11
sdaguebecause, it's 6 days20:11
jgriffithsdague: +120:11
jeblairttx: agree removal20:11
sdaguewaiting until the last minute is completely disrespectful of the openstack community20:11
ttx#agreed Fast-track removal for MagnetoDB rather than be awkward and nominate someone to kill it20:11
dhellmannsdague: double secret probation?20:11
flaper87sdague: ++20:12
jgriffithsdague: and I'm bighting my tongue for the "how can you be PTL if you can't submit a proposal"20:12
jeblairsdague: yes; i'm willing to give a little leeway because of the new election process, but honestly, that's a flimsy excuse.20:12
jgriffithbut don't want to get into it20:12
flaper87I think we should reconsider the whole candidacy proposal process20:12
flaper87and just have a deadline20:12
flaper87let it open and just have a single deadline20:12
annegentleflaper87: ++ why window it20:12
mordredwell ...20:12
jgriffithflaper87: there's nothing wrong with the process if you actually read the guidelines20:12
annegentlemordred: I mean I can think of all kinds of weird situations and bad behavior20:12
russellbi think it's just as simple as people not keeping up with openstack-dev20:12
flaper87that won't solve people waiting until the last minute BUT jeez, it's fixed deadline20:12
jgriffithrussellb: +100020:13
mordredI think that's also probelmatic because it's a great passive aggressive way to try to create a lame-duck cycle20:13
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sdaguerussellb: these dates are published way in advance20:13
annegentlemordred: heh20:13
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ttxsdague: it's not just disrepectful. It's very risky. Anyone can get in at the last second20:13
mordredannounce your candidacy for PTL at the start of the cycle - watch hijinx ensue20:13
sdagueif as the current PTL you can't keep track of when elections are, I'm dubious on your organization skills as a PTL20:13
adrian_ottosdague: this was a new process, and it was not well published in advance. I looked months ago, and could not find it.20:13
redrobotI don't think there's anything wrong with the current process.  If anything I would request that the deadline be 23:59 UTC instead of early in the morning UTC.  Makes date conversions a little easier.20:13
jgriffithsorry, I just think that if you're going to run for PTL you should be involved in the process/ ML etc20:13
flaper87jgriffith: sure but there's no need to have a start date20:13
sergmelikyanredrobot: +120:14
dhellmannadrian_otto: did you miss the email right before the election period?20:14
flaper87it's a step we don't need, especially now that there's an elections repo20:14
jeblairmordred: ah yeah.  thanks for articulating that.  i agree that keeping the window is good.20:14
mordreddhellmann: there are ... lots ... of emails20:14
dtroyerhaving been through this once now I think we all know what to expect come next spring20:14
jgriffithflaper87: Ok.. I'd like to propose my candidacy for the Q release today then20:14
lifeless6 days is less than a holiday20:14
lifelessif folk take leave to go to the beach, or skiing20:14
sdagueflaper87: I'm also fine openning it up a month early20:14
jgriffithdtroyer: +120:14
mordredif I'd been running, I probably would have missed it too - I think it's a fair mistake to make20:14
mordreddtroyer: ++20:14
flaper87jgriffith: you can't until there's no codename ;)20:14
markmcclain-mobiI like having a start date.. Otherwise we're perpetual election cycle20:14
sdagueso that people that know they will be on vacation can put it out there early20:14
annegentlemordred: it happens :)20:14
russellbmordred: ++20:14
flaper87as soon as there's a codename, it should be opened20:14
devanandaI would suggest the nomination window be declared at the start of the cycle and listed alongside the release schedule20:15
dtroyer6 days is short, it shoudl be longer, but the fact that the election was coming was not a surprise to anyone20:15
jgriffithflaper87: well then that should be our next topic.. we need to fix that :)20:15
edleafeflaper87: ++20:15
thingeeAugust 21st is when the proposal went out for workflow in the next PTL election http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-August/072600.html20:15
dougwigcould we maybe wait and see if this is a repeated problem, instead of kicking the folks that missed this time around?20:15
russellbanyway, we should move on20:15
mordreddevananda: ++20:15
jeblairflaper87: the codename can be something like a year in advance now.20:15
ttxAlso it's good to know who are the PTLs before you start nopminating for TC20:15
devanandaso that no one is left in the hypothetical state of being on vacation when the nomination window both starts and is announced20:15
annegentledougwig: yeah20:15
dhellmannflaper87: as someone sitting through election commercials for an election more than a year off, no, please, have a shorter cycle than that20:15
adrian_ottodhellman: yes, I did. My son was in the hospital.20:15
annegentledhellmann: ha srsly20:15
ttxSeriously, if you want to be a PTL, one week nomiunation is plenty enough20:15
devanandaand so that it is listed on the same wiki page that we all reference for timelines of releases and such20:15
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jgriffithdougwig: not kicking just to be clear, but saying I don' t think our process is broken and needs a revamp or big analysis at this time20:15
jgriffithttx: yeah, I have to agree with you on that for sure20:16
sdaguedevananda: yeh, listing the timelines with the release timelines seems like a good idea20:16
annegentlewe revamped the process, it caught a few people, but we had the checks in place, so I think we're fine.20:16
dhellmannadrian_otto: ok, sorry to hear that, and thanks for saying so. I'm trying to understand how we can communicate better, so it sounds like having > 1 week may have helped here.20:16
adrian_ottojust publish the requirements far in advance,a nd we will plan accordingly.20:16
flaper87FWIW, I'm not complaining about the mistakes, really. That happens ,that could happen to me because I can't calendar20:16
thingeeadrian_otto, dhellmann: the workflow proposal went out august 21st http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-August/072600.html20:16
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anteayathingee: that didnt' include dates20:17
flaper87I'm just saying that I've seen the trend to just wait until the last minute and I think that kinda suggests we don't need just a week20:17
anteayathingee: that proposed using a git repo20:17
thingeeanteaya: my point is discussions started.20:17
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flaper87dhellmann: I didn't suggest to have it opened for a year, though.20:17
thingeeanteaya: exactly, change in workflow20:17
dhellmannflaper87: speaking of calendar, maybe we can get a public ICS file with some of the big dates on it so folks can subscribe to it for updates20:17
anteayathingee: about the git repo instead of the mailing list20:17
ttxI propose we move on. I think if the same projects come next year the choice of the TC might be different, like pick new people by principle20:17
anteayathingee: and I started it last spring actually20:17
sdagueok, so I think we got our garumphs out on this one20:17
jgriffithflaper87: yeah, we should give people 3 weeks to procrastinate :)20:17
flaper87dhellmann: that also sounds good20:17
edleafehow about we open at a set date, but close it randomly. Encourage people to declare early! :)20:17
sdaguettx: yeh, lets move on20:17
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thingeeanteaya: that's what we're talking about, change in workflow mailing list -> git repo20:17
devanandadhellmann: we have public ICS for project meetings. ++ to putting election dates on it as well20:17
thingeeanteaya: and when that started20:17
ttxIf you have a proposal to change the election process, feel free to push it20:18
mordreddevananda: ++20:18
flaper87jgriffith: I'll take it :P20:18
mordreddhellmann: ++20:18
dhellmanndevananda: release milestones, too20:18
jgriffithand I do understand that some folks had circumstances.. so don't take that the wrong way20:18
mordreddhellmann: +20:18
mordredrelease milestones in ical would be WIN20:18
ttxWe have a lot to cover today, let's move on20:18
mordredI'm constantly looing for those20:18
ttxmordred: it did exist and nobody told me they were using it20:18
dhellmannmordred, devananda, flaper87 : maybe one of you can take that on?20:18
ttx#topic Remove MagnetoDB from OpenStack20:18
*** openstack changes topic to "Remove MagnetoDB from OpenStack (Meeting topic: tc)"20:18
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flaper87dhellmann: happy to help, yup20:18
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dhellmannflaper87: wonderful, let's brainstorm tomorrow20:19
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mordredso, it's a dead project, which is not a condemnation of the people or the project, merely a statement of fact20:19
dhellmannttx, fungi : what are the technical requirements for being able to know who contributed to magnetodb for atc status?20:19
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ttxmordred: oh look, an old ical feed nobody cared about: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/DiabloReleaseSchedule20:19
devanandaflaper87, ttx: fwiw -- http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/irc-meetings/tree/README.rst20:19
mordredttx: dude. that was diablo. almost nobody in this channel was here then20:19
mesterymordred: lol :)20:20
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ttxmordred: was still around for Folsom :)20:20
sdagueso... magnetodb....20:21
ttxSo, MagnetoDB...20:21
ttxWe can do a specific file to track retired things as a subsequent commit, but landing this commit now would solve the "no PTL" issue.20:21
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sdagueyeh, I'm happy with the retired bits as follow ons20:21
thingeettx: would like to note that based on magentodb's stats (which isn't probably accurate on stackalytics) in reassuring the tag diversity.20:21
ttxso I'm fine with it as-is and we can fix the "dead projects" bin later20:21
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dhellmannthat feels a bit sloppy20:21
* flaper87 agrees w/ ttx and sdague20:21
ttxthingee: I blame dhellmann for ensuring MagnetoDB diversity20:21
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dhellmannI mean, we could just as easily move this block of text into a new file, right?20:22
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ttxdhellmann: except that means a new patchset and new approvals20:22
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ttxdhellmann: otherwise yes20:22
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* dhellmann shrugs20:22
ttxdhellmann: also, nitpicking ton new file format20:22
flaper87we can agree that the new patch set can be fast tracked ?20:22
ttxsince it should also be able to contain dead repos20:23
flaper87that way we make everyone happy20:23
dhellmannttx: obviously it should be the same, we already have tools to read this format20:23
ttxdhellmann: makes it hard to use for dead repos (<cough> openstack/kite)20:23
* flaper87 had forgotten about kite20:23
ttxwhich is why I prefer to merge that one and not bikeshed on the file format now20:24
dhellmannI'm not sure I see that.20:24
dhellmannSimply deleting the project has voter roll implications, so I don't like doing that.20:24
ttxdhellmann: what kind of implication ? MagnetoDB contributors won't be able to vote on TC election ?20:25
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jgriffithcan we delete it as part of M only?20:25
ttxdhellmann: that sounds about fair, why would they ?20:25
jgriffithso that voter/ATC status counts for L?20:25
sdaguethere is only one contributor that would apply to - http://stackalytics.com/?metric=commits&user_id=tgehrke20:25
sdagueall other magnetodb contributors have another commit20:25
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lifelessI propose we add them as a manual excemption20:25
ttxsdague: and again, if they are out, why would they elect the next 6 months TC members ?20:25
mordredwe can add that person as an extra-atc20:25
lifelessand get on with it20:25
jgriffithlifeless: +120:25
ttxmordred, lifeless: why ? What's the point ?20:26
lifelessttx: the point of them getting a summit pass under the rules we've set?20:26
sdagueonly 4 contributors total this cycle20:26
dhellmannI guess I'm mixing up ATC and voting rights. It's ATC status that applies for more than one cycle.20:26
ttxlifeless: they already got it a long time ago20:26
jeblairi think i'm with ttx here -- i actually think the retroactive removal is okay20:26
lifelessttx: won't they be valid for N too ?20:27
ttxlifeless: summit is 6 months now, no relationship to ATC status at all20:27
lifelessttx: AIUI ATC lasts 2 cycles, not one20:27
ttxdespite what the badge says20:27
ttxlifeless: and it's not our rules20:27
ttxlifeless: it's the event organizer house rules20:27
RockygATC might last 2 cycles, but free pass to summit is one20:28
sdaguefor what it's worth, the only contributor that would be affected didn't get the one patch to a mergable state20:28
lifelessttx: ok, so nothing is being taken away from tgehrke if we do this20:28
sdagueit was initial proposal, but finished by someone else20:28
lifelessttx: in which case I'm fine20:28
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dhellmannyeah, I thought something was being taken away, but if that's not the case I'm ok with it20:28
ttxlifeless: he just won't be able to vote on upcoming TC election, and I'm not even sure that would kick in.20:28
jgriffithseems fine to me, and if Todd for some reason is interested enough he can always appeal no?20:28
ttxI have enough votes to approve it now20:29
notmynameplease don't get to the point of judging a contribution to see if it's worthy of granting voting status or not20:29
ttxnotmyname: I'm not sure what you mean here20:29
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sdaguenotmyname: it's not whether the contribution is worthy. It's that the contribution was never completed. Someone else actually took it over and did the work.20:29
jgriffithnotmyname: I don't think they were judging it, just stating he didn't actually contribute it... no?20:29
dhellmannjgriffith: I would rather we set a precedent that we're addressing that issue directly, than kicking it down the road. The next project might have 100 people affected by being removed.20:29
sdaguebut things are counted by gerrit owner20:30
jgriffithdhellmann: good point20:30
dhellmannso if we're saying that if your only contribution is to a project that we remove from the official list you're going to lose any rights you might have had, then that's ok as long as we state that up front20:30
ttxany objection to immediate approval ?20:30
dhellmannit's not ideal, I guess, but it is better than deciding that after the fact20:30
notmynamettx: from sdague's comment. I don't know all the details. if someone is counted for voting status under the current rules, they should be able to vote, IMO. retroactively removing that seems wrong20:30
lifelessI'm not happy about their inability to vote in the TC; its true someone else finished it, but they still contributed20:30
jgriffithdhellmann: I get it, yeah20:31
ttxnotmyname: there is no retroaction20:31
dhellmannright, they could have voted in this election, but not the next20:31
sdaguedhellmann: yeh, I think we should just state that up front20:31
ttxlifeless: what if we had removed them 4 months ago ?20:31
lifelessttx: but we didn't20:32
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ttxOK, let's kick it back to the review and move on20:32
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lifelesswhen it comes to voting, I think we have to be both transparent and fair20:32
flaper87I think it'd be fair to grant vote rights for that ATC and the state up front what we've just said in this meeting20:33
ttxdhellmann: post a -1 then and I'll wait, even if it has more approvals than needed already20:33
markmcclain-mobiI think if the team was part of any portion of the cycle we should honor it otherwise the tc could manipulate the electorate20:33
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sdagueyeh, I'd be fine with extra atc status to expire post this election20:33
lifelessright, thats all I've asked for - add them to extra-atc for one cycle, done.20:33
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sdaguelifeless: yeh, I'm fine with that20:33
ttxlifeless: two cycles20:33
lifelessttx: sure20:33
ttxsince their contribution grants them ATC for one year20:34
flaper87We can write the conclusions of this meeting down in case this happens again20:34
lifelessttx: 'a period of ATC validity'20:34
anteayaATC is for 365 days20:34
mesteryflaper87: ++, good idea20:34
ttxanyway, push it to the review20:34
anteayait is in the by-laws20:34
sdagueso, it's also weird that our ATC counting does count people that push a patch that fails all the tests, and never show up again20:34
ttxmoving on20:34
sdagueand someone else makes the code work and landable20:34
ttxsdague: it should only count landed patches20:35
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sdaguettx: yes, landed by someone else20:35
sdaguebecause gerrit owner never resets20:35
ttxsdague: yeah, orthogonal discussion20:35
dhellmannanteaya: can you add a link to the relevant section of the bylaws in a comment on the review so we can use that to work up the policy?20:35
jeblairsdague: if there was no contribution from the original author, i'm not sure why someone would pick up that patch vs starting a new one.20:35
anteayadhellmann: will do20:35
dhellmannanteaya: thanks20:35
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ttx#topic Introduce assert:follows-standard-deprecation tag20:36
*** openstack changes topic to "Introduce assert:follows-standard-deprecation tag (Meeting topic: tc)"20:36
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/20746720:36
ttxPatchset 4 incorporated all the changes requested at the last TC meeting, based on feedback collected on the email thread and the cross-project meeting20:36
lifelesssdague: that means the person that fixed it chose not to reset the author20:36
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ttxNow has all needed approvals, will approve20:36
jeblairlifeless: you can't change the owner in gerrit20:36
ttxlast-minute objection ?20:36
sdaguelifeless: actually, gerrit author never resets. Ever.20:36
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jeblairnot author20:36
sdagueright, owner20:36
sdaguewhich is the atc counter20:37
* ttx stays on topic20:37
ttx#topic Add new project Kosmos20:37
*** openstack changes topic to "Add new project Kosmos (Meeting topic: tc)"20:37
fungidhellmann: sorry, got sucked into other conversations. identifying contributors to a repo as official means we need some way of identifying that the repo was official at some particular point in time. ultimately we on'y really need to know that as far back as two cycles (one year) because of bylaws around tc elections20:37
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/22367420:37
* Rockyg orders a round of beers hoping the TC are happy drunks20:38
dhellmannfungi: ok, thanks20:38
ttxI propose we go back to owner vs. ATC in open discussion if we have time left20:38
russellbRockyg: huh?20:38
ttxKosmos reignited the debate on how early you can submit project teams for inclusion in the tent20:38
flaper87Jus to clarify my view, I'm not against Kosmos or the team but I'd like us to state this clearly too20:38
annegentleway to go Kosmos20:38
ttxI don't have a very strong position on that. My gut feeling is that I'd prefer the teams have something to show before they can be considered20:38
lifelessjeblair: sdague: I thought our tool looked at the git history ?20:39
ttxAnd since we removed the stackforge rename step, I feel like there is no hurry... But I could easily be convinced otherwise20:39
* dhellmann is considering applying for official status for a project to come up with project ideas20:39
flaper87It does feel weird to approve empty projects, tbh.20:39
Rockygtrying to lighten the discussion.  Getting a bit heated.  Rightfully so, but.....let's stay congenial20:39
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dtroyerwe have pushed off other teams to get some history20:39
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ttxanyone from Kosmos to tell us why they want/need it now ?20:39
sdagueI do think it's a little different if those folks are already doing existing projects though20:39
flaper87dtroyer: right20:39
ttxsdague: yes, agreed, but it feels a bit subjective20:39
ttxthey are already "one of us" I guess20:40
russellbttx: comments seem to be that they don't care much whether it's now or later, and were just trying to follow process20:40
* Rockyg volunteers to be on dhellmann's project20:40
annegentleprojects are people too20:40
flaper87sdague: while I agree with that, opening it to subjective judgement doesn't feel right20:40
russellbit's more of a "tell us when is the right time"20:40
mugsie_cellttx: I am on a mobile, but I gave an overview in my review20:40
lifelesssdague: mmm, the namespace was the big thing in the past, but with the new stackforge mechanism... shouldn't matter at all20:40
dougwigjust filing the paperwork, so to speak. i wasn't aware of a want/need requirement. we're open to whatever.20:40
mesteryrussellb: ++20:40
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russellbdougwig: thanks20:40
russellbso really just up to us to say if this is the right time or not, since it's not clear enough to them20:40
ttxmugsie_cell: thx, will read20:40
* russellb thinks it's fine20:41
russellbbut don't feel that strongly20:41
russellbthough they make a good point that we could probably help some in clarifying it in new project workflow so people know what to expect20:41
mesterySince it's top of mind and if folks don't mind, may make sense to approve now rather than punt this discussion down the road.20:41
flaper87I think that either way, we won't be getting in their way20:41
ttxright, I'm not -1ing, just raising the topic while it's here20:41
mesteryflaper87: ++20:41
russellbflaper87: agree20:41
lifelessI could go either way here20:41
dougwigflaper87: indeed, we will be following the openstack conventions from our respective projects either way.20:42
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lifelesson the on hand, being 'in' early means no remedial catchup on project testing interface etc20:42
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russellbthey'll be doing most of that either way, i suspect20:42
dtroyerI think the consistent move is to defer this for a time and come back when there is some history for the project.20:42
lifelesson the other hand, we've been prtty consistent about asking for visible evidence of 'doing stuff the openstack way'20:42
ttxbasically we are saying we are trusting that team to do the right thing20:42
flaper87I just don't feel like making subjective judgements. Hope that makes sense. I do trust these folks :)20:42
jeblairi'm still okay with new official empty projects20:42
ttxrather than seeing the right thing in action20:42
fungilifeless: (still catching up so previous topic) the tool in question is based on gerrit queries for owner accounts (because the author is not necessarily someone holding a foundation membership/agreeing to a cla, but the uploader is) http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/system-config/tree/tools/atc20:43
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ttxI'm fine with that very small leap of faith20:43
* mordred agrees with jeblair20:43
* mordred has no problem approving empty projets made up of humans who are clearly openstack humans20:43
flaper87if we're fine with new empty projects from folks that are already contributors of OpenStack, can we make that a thing in our governance repo?20:43
russellbmordred: jeblair especially when it's people we already know20:43
dhellmannyeah, esp. since the folks involved are already coming from existing official projects -- that hasn't always been the case for the other projects we've asked to wait20:43
mesterymordred: Well said20:43
mordredrussellb: yup20:43
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flaper87Just to avoid having this conversation again in the futre20:43
annegentlemordred: that's... weird. Just cuz I go to soylent green in my mind.20:43
ttxthe review has flaper87 -1 and is still missing a few approvals20:44
flaper87I'm all for changing my vote, I just wanted to make sure we had this conversation20:44
annegentlebut yeah on the sentiment20:44
* flaper87 changed his vote20:44
ttxalso I wanted to add -- this team has a worthwhile goal, I would hate to get in their way20:44
mordredannegentle: openstack humans are tasty?20:44
flaper87I'll try to word this and put it in our governance repo20:44
flaper87because we like openstack humans20:44
ttxOK, we have enough now20:44
sdaguethough, the reality is being in the gov repo shouldn't really change anything about them getting stuff done20:45
sdaguebecause they can still have the gerrit repo regardless20:45
dtroyerit shouldn't but it will affect resource allocation in spme companies20:45
sdaguedtroyer: sure20:45
ttxapproving in 30 sec tro give others a chance to record their vote20:45
anteayadhellmann: commented20:45
ttxor oppose20:45
dhellmannanteaya: ty20:45
ttxI'll push the button at the end of this meeting20:46
ttxin the mean time20:46
ttx#topic Cross-project track at Mitaka design summit: collecting topics20:46
*** openstack changes topic to "Cross-project track at Mitaka design summit: collecting topics (Meeting topic: tc)"20:46
lifelessthere, I'm the -1 ;)20:46
ttxjeblair and myself worked last week to resurrect odsreg20:46
ttxlifeless: ah!20:46
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ttxThe session suggestion website is opened at:20:47
ttx#link http://odsreg.openstack.org/20:47
ttx5 suggestions there so far20:47
ttxNote sure what relationship it should have with the etherpad. Since we posted the etherpad URL here people have been adding stuff to it directly20:47
ttxAlso, should we publish a deadline ?20:47
russellbi would think it makes sense to just input everything from the etherpad into odsreg so it's in one place20:47
* russellb shrugs20:48
flaper87ttx: +1 for deadline and I'd recommend sending out an email recommending people to move their topics to odsreg20:48
ttxflaper87: ok, who takes that action ?20:48
ttxAlso I propose to set up a specific meeting for the cross-project track workgroup to come up with a proposed plan, rather than take meeting time to work out the details20:48
ttxsince we have a bit of a backlog already20:48
sdagueseems reasonable20:48
anteayaannegentle: did you want to suggest a session on communication? as a follow up of your mailing list thread?20:49
flaper87ttx: I will20:49
flaper87I've some time in my hands now20:49
sdagueso, was there a particular reason to not just use the etherpad?20:49
annegentleanteaya: I did add to the etherpad iirc20:49
annegentlebut hadn't done the osdreg step20:49
anteayaokay so I guess it will be transfered20:49
ttx#action flaper87 to send a deadline and recommend  people to move their topics to odsreg20:49
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annegentleanteaya: do I need to do it?20:49
annegentleah ok20:50
anteayaah self serve looks like20:50
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lifelessisn't the etherpad better for us ?20:50
* annegentle grabs an ice cream cone20:50
anteayasdague: yes at last weeks meeting folks didn't want to use the etherpad20:50
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dhellmann*some folks20:50
lifelesswe can't use odsreg to schedule20:50
anteayamuch discussion about it, then odsreg is alive20:50
anteayadhellmann: thanks for the correction, some folks20:51
lifelessthe only point - AIUI from last week - was structured data gathering20:51
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ttxyeah, for workgroup discussion we'll likely put all things in an etherpad again20:51
dhellmannyeah, I think the main point was ensuring there was a name attached to everything20:51
lifelessso - lets /not/ mass copy stuff to odsreg, waste of valuable time20:51
ttxI'm fine aitehr way20:52
ttxor either20:52
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jeblairwe may get duplicate submissions that way20:52
lifelessif we're going to have to move it all to the etherpad anyway20:52
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ttxflaper87: so maybe just set a deadline20:53
ttxand find a date for a planning meeting20:53
flaper87ttx: yeah20:53
annegentleI have to duck out early, sorry. Feel free to sign me up for a blog post if needed.20:53
ttxmoving on ?20:54
jeblairi believe we also wanted to use odsreg to collect comments20:54
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jeblairso i think having all the topics in there would help facilitate that20:54
jeblair(actually, i think that was the main thing we wanted it for)20:54
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dhellmannah, I thought it was the names on the comments we cared about, since anyone can leave text in the etherpad, too, but I probably misunderstood20:55
anteayajeblair: I remember the ability to create comments20:55
ttxflaper87: you write the email you make the call :)20:55
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jeblairdhellmann: i bet we'd be happiest with both comments and names of people who left them! :)20:55
flaper87ttx: Yes sir! I'll read more into this20:56
ttxpeople with a string opinion can discuss with flaper87 about the right wording.20:56
anteayadhellmann: I thought it was the names on the topics, but you will capture names on comments too with odsreg20:56
ttxMoving on20:56
sdagueyeh, the real concern was last time we had topics without owners, that was a mess :)20:56
dhellmannjeblair: you got your chocolate in my peanut butter!20:56
ttx#topic Add team:non-diverse-affiliation tag20:56
*** openstack changes topic to "Add team:non-diverse-affiliation tag (Meeting topic: tc)"20:56
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/21872520:56
ttxThis is making slow but steady progress20:56
ttxMost of the opposition seems to focus on the wording of the first paragraph20:56
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ttxNo time to discuss it now -- If you have other objections it would be good to express those, so that jogo can include them in the next revision of this20:56
ttx#topic Communications workgroup report20:56
*** openstack changes topic to "Communications workgroup report (Meeting topic: tc)"20:56
ttxflaper87: we might have enough for a blogpost, and anne signed up for one20:57
flaper87We didn't have a blog post last week, but I think we have material for this week20:57
flaper87ttx: yup20:57
ttxflaper87: any other comment ?20:57
flaper87nope, I'm glad she raised her hand20:57
ttx#topic Open discussion20:57
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)"20:57
ttxSkipping "other workgroups" since we don't really have any20:57
ttxSo it looks like the final decision on Kosmos will be delayed to next week, so we have time to think a bit more about it20:58
ttxQuick note that we'll be having TC elections starting next week with self-nominations20:58
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ttxWe renew half the TC (russellb, sdague, annegentle, jgriffith, dhellmann and mordred's seats)20:58
ttxAnything else, anyone ?20:59
flaper87just a quick note20:59
ttxflaper87: one minute20:59
flaper87I'd like us to improve a bit the process of reviewing cross-project specs. I'll be digging into this and I'll come back with more info20:59
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flaper87hopefully a solution or at the very lesat an idea20:59
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ttxmordred: you will sync with dhellmann for a new patchset on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/224743/ ?21:00
flaper87It's my impression that those specs are moving forward very slow21:00
flaper87that's it21:00
ttxflaper87: you saw the recent thread about it right21:00
ttxanne started it21:00
flaper87ttx: yes21:00
ttxok, just checking21:01
ttxwe'll likely have a cross-project session on that, I proposed one21:01
ttxand... no time left21:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Sep 22 21:01:21 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:01
flaper87not planning to do this alone21:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-09-22-20.01.html21:01
ttxThanks everyone!21:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-09-22-20.01.txt21:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-09-22-20.01.log.html21:01
thingee#startmeeting crossproject21:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Sep 22 21:01:36 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is thingee. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'crossproject'21:01
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thingeecourtesy ping for david-lyle flaper87 dims dtroyer johnthetubaguy rakhmerov21:01
thingeecourtesy ping for smelikyan morganfainberg adrian_otto bswartz slagle21:01
thingeecourtesy ping for adrian_otto mestery kiall jeblair thinrichs j^2 stevebaker21:01
thingeecourtesy ping for mtreinish Daisy Piet notmyname ttx isviridov gordc SlickNik21:01
thingeecourtesy ping for cloudnull loquacities thingee hyakuhei redrobot dirk TravT21:01
thingeecourtesy ping for vipul lifeless annegentle SergeyLukjanov devananda boris-42 nikhil_k21:01
thingeehi everyone!21:02
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thingeeAgenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting21:02
thingee#topic review past action items21:02
*** openstack changes topic to "review past action items (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:02
thingee#info Add string freeze to common cycle with milestones merged thanks to johnthetubaguy and TC!21:02
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thingee#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/223011/21:03
thingee#info Base feature deprecation policy merged thanks to ttx and the rest of TC!21:03
thingee#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/207467/21:03
ttxYeah, I'll be in touch with PTLs to explain if and how they should assert it21:03
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thingee#info Return request ID to caller merged thanks to Abhishek and TC!21:03
ttx#action ttx to communicate about base deprecation policy21:04
thingee#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/156508/21:04
ttxwell, the tC just put the stamp on that one, no credits21:04
ttxAbhishek should get all the credit21:04
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mordredttx: yes will sync21:04
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thingeelifeless: lets talk about avoiding using testr in environment under test21:05
thingee#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/218070/21:05
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tpatilI would like to say thank you to everyone who helped in getting the spec "Return request Id to caller" approved21:05
thingeeI think we're still in the same place from last cross project meeting?21:05
lifelessthingee: we talked last week; its on me to get more refinement21:05
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lifelessthingee: I've been working the backwards-compat-and-branchless stuff this week21:06
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dhellmanntpatil: that was a long effort, thanks for sticking with it21:06
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thingeegot it, ok, we'll circle back next week?21:06
tpatildhellmann, Thanks. I have few questions about next steps which I would like to discuss in Open discussion21:07
thingeelifeless: ^21:07
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Rockygabhishek, tpatil Thank you.  It *will* be extremely helpful moving forward21:07
thingee#topic Team announcements (horizontal, vertical, diagonal)21:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Team announcements (horizontal, vertical, diagonal) (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:07
ttxOn the release management front, we are 3 weeks before the end of the liberty dev cycle21:07
ttxWe are chasing the last FFEs which should have been merged a long time ago21:07
ttxWe started issuing RC1s today21:08
ttxMost projects should issue those this week21:08
tpatilRockyg: Thanks21:08
ttxIntermediary-released projects (like swift and ironic) are expected to release a likely-final Liberty version before end of month as well21:08
stevebakerttx: do you want a releases review for the rc1 commit?21:08
thingee#info release management says 3 weeks before end of the liberty dev cycle21:08
ttxstevebaker: no. I do have an "open-mitaka" commit though21:08
dhellmannI believe we've finished all the library releases and stable branches for this cycle, but if you manage one that I missed please get in touch with me21:08
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lifelessthingee: yes, hopefully ;)21:09
thingee#info release management: RC1s have started today!21:09
ttxstevebaker: see https://review.openstack.org/#/q/branch:master+topic:open-mitaka,n,z21:09
ttxStarting now don't hesitate to flag things that may impact the final release(s), especially cross-project issues, in #openstack-relmgr-office21:09
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stevebakerdo these coverage 4.0 changes need to be in the rc1s? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/225736/121:09
stevebakermordred: ^?21:09
jrollso, would this be a good time to ask why a new development cycle needs a major semver bump? :)21:10
ttxI think that's more forward-looking... mordred ?21:10
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thingee#info release-management: don't hesitate to flag things that main impact final release, especially cross-project issues in #openstack-relmgr-office21:10
jrollI asked this earlier and the answer was "that's what most projects seem to want"21:10
ttxjroll: it doesn't, for intermediary-released projects21:10
jrollbut it's not really semver, so I just wanted to throw the question out there21:10
clarkbI would put coverage fixes in releases so coverage works but its not required to releease aince the joba run post merge21:10
jrollttx: I'm asking in general, not about ironic specifically21:10
ttxsee swift, they don't bump X on cycle boundaries21:11
jrollttx: asking because we say "now we're doing semver" but we aren't actually doing semver21:11
ttxjroll: it's a bit of an artifact from pre-versioning21:11
ttxjroll: which we may get rid of early next cycle21:11
mordredstevebaker: it's only urgent if you have gating on your coverage tests working21:11
devanandajroll: I think ttx is saying that projects may choose, and likely both swift and ironic will choose _not_ to bump major version number on release cycle boundaries21:11
mordredstevebaker: if you do not have gating on coverage, then you can land those whenever21:11
devanandawhereas other projects will choose to do that21:11
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stevebakermordred: ah. we don't and I wish we did21:12
mordredstevebaker: although, if you land them now, it gets them off of y gerrit screen, which make me happy21:12
jrolldevananda: rephrased, my question is "why are projects not doing semver right" :) "because that's their choice" is a fine answer21:12
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thingeeok, anything else for announcements?21:12
fungijroll: that also seems to be the actual answer21:12
ttxjroll: so to answer your initial question, no it's not a good time to ask *now*, as we are deep down in the middle of the process21:12
clarkbthingee translation reviews21:13
bknudsonfor keystone looks like we can remove eventlet support since it was deprecated21:13
clarkbthey should get into RCs21:13
ttxbut asking at the start of the next cycle is a good thing :)21:13
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jrollttx: sure, thanks21:13
fungiahh, yes, wet all your rubber stamps, there are translation reviews awaiting21:13
clarkbtopic is zanata/translationd21:13
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clarkber zanata/translations21:13
ttxclarkb: new rules for StringFreeze (from johnthetubaguy) are that we give them a week post RC1 to merge them into a RC221:14
thingeeclarkb: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/223011/21:14
ttxbasically translators finalize translations based on the RC1 drop21:14
ttxbut yeah, they are coming in21:15
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bknudsondo translations go into master?21:15
ttxbknudson: I was about to ask that21:15
jokke_afaik yes21:15
clarkbtoday its master only, yesterday we got asked to aupport the release branches too21:15
ttxif they go to master, most will be lost and require hackish scripts from AJaeger to backport21:15
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clarkbI am working on that21:15
ttxclarkb: check with AJaeger he had the magic script to sync only relevant things21:16
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devanandaclarkb: is there still a % threshhold below which the translation bot won't propose it?21:16
clarkbttx ya he has reviewed21:16
clarkbdevananda yes21:16
thingeeok great, going to move on...21:16
thingee#topic Making the cross-project meeting more useful21:17
*** openstack changes topic to "Making the cross-project meeting more useful (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:17
thingeeso this meeting...21:17
thingeeAnne Gentle brought up the thread of asking how we could make this meeting more useful http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-September/074521.html21:17
thingeeI think the basic breakdown is, in this meeting we ideas proposed that just aren't ready to be discussed here sometimes. Mainly because the right people haven't commented on a spec.21:19
thingeewe have ideas proposed*21:19
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bknudsonit's hard to get behind a x-project spec that you don't know if every project is going to accept it.21:19
bknudsonor that it's going to take so long to implement that it might never be done21:20
thingeeThat brought light to the purpose of the product working group, which likes to follow these cross project ideas, and ensure the right projects are aware of them and give thoughts on those ideas. This helps with the idea of a spec for example becoming stale, or not getting the right attention.21:20
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bknudsone.g., if you have a 50% chance to get into nova and 50% chance to get into keystone, etc., pretty soon there's a ~0% chance it's done.21:20
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ttxthingee: one aspect of it is that some of those specs aren't really glamorous, but sometimes just plumbing21:21
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ttxso hard to see as part of a key objective or a larger vision21:21
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anteayaensuring any discussion is prefaced with a larger vision is helpful21:22
notmynameis the question what we can do to be better, or that something is broken now that we need to fix?21:22
jokke_notmyname: you put my thoughts extremely well above21:23
ttxnotmyname: my feeling (which I expressed on the thread) is that it's broken -- it's really a painful experience to drive something through that process21:23
notmynamettx: the cross-project spec process? or are we talking about making this meeting betteR?21:23
jokke_ttx: but does that break x-project meeting or just x-project specs?21:24
fungia related note is http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-September/075129.html which indicates that our cross-project discussions really are a foreign language to at least some entrenched developers in our community21:24
thingeeyeah I think things got derailed a bit. Let me try again...21:24
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bknudsona lot of boring work is hard to get reviewers of it.21:24
ttxnotmyname: thought you were talking about the xproject specs process.21:24
dimsfungi: y i tried explaining :)21:24
bknudsonthe release / spec process is geared towards adding new features.21:24
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thingeeSo from what I was getting from this thread, how can we make this meeting better.21:25
notmynameno, sorry. I thought the topic was about this meeting21:25
thingeeI think sometimes we're not ready to have this meeting. The proposed specs still need attention or a good solution21:25
ttxnotmyname: as far as the meeting goes, I feel like it fails to be used as a way to have direct discussions on cross-project issues. Almost nobody adds topics to discuss21:25
annegentlethe thread is about all the channels and the outcomes we need from cross-project work.21:25
thingeeoh hi annegentle !21:25
annegentlethis meeting being "a channel"21:25
* annegentle waves21:25
jrollthingee: we aren't ready, or agenda items aren't ready? :)21:26
thingeeagenda items aren't ready21:26
jrollthingee: I think we need to encourage only adding things to agenda if they're ready for discussion, or someone wants confirmation it's a thing they should work on, or whatever21:26
thingeeso I've given thought on the process for ideas that become cross project can come to light in this meeting http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-September/074867.html21:26
thingeemy proposal^21:26
bknudsonfor cross-project you really need some backing that it's a good idea early since it's going to be a lot of work21:26
bknudsonso I think it's a good idea to bring half-baked ideas here21:26
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jokke_ttx: I'd like to disagree ... this hour is extremely valuable at least for me to keep up what's going on around as I genuinely don't have time to crawl through the mailing list or spec repos to figure that out21:27
fungiwell, and also that there are likely to be others who will help you convince all the various projects involved that whatever you need their help to get implemented is really worth the effort21:27
thingeejokke_: I'll be answering that bit of keeping up with the ML later :)21:27
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annegentleto me a meeting lets you get more real-time input and feedback21:27
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thingeeSo the main point of my proposal is cross project idea discussions should not be on IRC, ML, here and there.21:28
jrollyeah, I'm personally ok with topics in this meeting being "is this crazy?" but not "let's review this spec in real time"21:28
thingeeit makes conversations difficult if you have to know where some people's views are in different places.21:28
thingeeThe first proposal is encouraging discussion to stay in the spec21:28
thingeein gerrit21:29
ttxjokke_: that's good fedback thx21:29
EmilienMthingee: +121:29
elmikojroll: +121:29
jrollthingee: I think there's value in finding out if everyone hates the idea before writing the spec :)21:29
jrollthingee: if we *do* want to solve that case outside of the meeting, the initial spec could just be the first section or two, to see if it should proceed further. or we could just spend 5 minutes on it here21:29
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thingeejroll: right! so going back to my first thing on the proposal, the idea starts on the ML, or a single project patch21:30
thingeeassuming that's good, all discussions are encoruaged to stay in the gerrit review spec21:30
ttxjokke_: yeah, the key aspect being you have a predetermined agenda that lets you decide if it's worth attending / staying up21:30
RockygThis meeting is really good to see where we are and provide some direction, but I think that cross project specs might benefit from a "virtual sprint" of interested people to focus on getting it past initial phase and into ready for "meeting" discussion21:30
jrollthingee: sure, but like annegentle said, it's much quicker feedback here. I'm fine with either way but she does have a point :)21:31
anteayaare we saying the meeting is only about specs?21:31
jokke_ttx: that and I do have this slot booked in my calendar to catch up what's going on rather than trying to "justify" that time from something else through the week21:31
fungijroll: on the other hand, it may be pretty quick to push up a one-paragraph placeholder/wip spec and ask for input there21:31
thingeejroll: right, so my main point of wanting to do this, is so that these meetings become more interesting to people.21:31
thingeethe problem is not everyone attends this meeting.21:31
jrollfungi: yep, I mentioned that, I'm good with that21:31
thingeeI think that might have to do with the fact that progress is kind of slow here.21:31
thingeethings aren't ready21:31
thingeeso people get bored21:31
fungijroll: indeed. i should have read further before responding21:32
* Rockyg is starting to get bored...just kidding!21:32
thingeeinstead, if we had specs in more of a consensus point, these meetings would be fewer because of the number of topics that get to that point, and makes the meeting more interesting when there are stuff to look over.21:32
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devanandathingee: well, it often takes > 1 cycle just to get some concensus on a spec in this group. developers who are focused on landing a patch dont want to wait that long. PTL's often have more time-sensitive things to deal with21:33
fungii have already justified this chunk of my tuesday evenings to my wife, so there is some effort involved in rejustifying new timeslots ;)21:33
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jokke_sorry to jump bit off topic, just gotta get this out of my mind before I loose the point. x-project spec is really painful, how about moving it from single person effort to the stage where it's single person effort to convince TC that the _idea_ is worth of pursuing after which it would be driven by TC to wider community. Rather than that one person trying to convince all the big eevil oldtimers?21:33
annegentlejokke_: so, smaller first test group?21:34
fungijokke_: i don't think it's by necessity a single-person effort, but if you think the spec is a good idea then you may need to find other people to help. the tc can't unilaterally assign resources to help you implement it21:34
Rockygfungi, thingee not saying *another* meeting for everything, but that a good idea spec gets a mini sprint to flesh it out and get it into a real spec shape21:34
anteayagets a mini sprint? anyone can book a sprint for themselves21:35
fungijokke_: some tc members may sign on to help implement the spec, but that's not limited just to the tc21:35
jokke_annegentle: not really, but rather insight from the folks who are supposed to be representing the technical community and could most probably tell already at the idea level if it will never get through or not21:35
anteaya#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/VirtualSprints21:35
Rockyganteaya, yes, thanks!  If the mini sprint were decided timewise in the cross project meeting, then maybe more interested people would turn up and get the spec in shape in that one meeting instead of over months21:36
fungijokke_: "is this a good idea/is it likely to ever find enough backing to be implemented" strikes me as the reason why the tc votes on cross-project specs anyway21:36
annegentlejokke_:  so not really size as much as experience/instinct21:37
anteayamaybe, but noone is standing in the way of anyone booking their own sprint, just sign up for the space21:37
jokke_fungi: I'm not saying that TC has magical unlimited resources to pour, but one would have way easier path to bring stuff up to the wide audience if the TC is in general behind the idea and perhaps helping to form the first iteration of the spec to the form it has even chanse to get to the point in next weeks rather than months/cycles21:37
bknudsonfor the amount of work that x-proj specs take to implement, we'd want something stronger than "maybe this is going to be implemented"21:37
jokke_annegentle: exactly21:37
annegentlejokke_: fungi: What I experienced with service catalog is that I couldn't implement it all and have to find people who can.21:37
jrollanteaya: Rockyg: I don't see any need for an official sprint, nor deciding on a time in this meeting. could just send an email to the list "hey I'm hacking on this spec at x time in #openstack-channel, interested parties welcome"21:37
annegentlebknudson: yeah that makes sense21:37
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elmikobknudson: +121:37
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anteayajroll: sprints aren't official that is my point21:38
ttxjokke_: I'd rather have it be an open group. Could be a TC workgroup, with TC members but opened to anyone interested21:38
anteayajroll: and yes the workflow you propose is my expectation21:38
jrollanteaya: yep +121:38
fungii think helping you get your spec into sufficient shape that it's implementable is part of why the tc is acting as the approving body for those specs21:38
thingeeok, well I encourage folks to respond to the thread. I think having specs with solutions and ready for feedback would be great. There's ideas for the product working group to help with that and get the relevant projects involved with a proposed spec. http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-September/074867.html21:38
annegentlettx: I wondered about a TC workgroup stood up just for particular x-project efforts/specs21:38
bknudsonrequiring a team dedicated to getting a x-proj spec makes sense to me -- you don't want the effort to fail just because one person lost interest21:39
Rockygannegentle, ++  how do you recruit devs for a spec you need help designing/implementing to fit the openstack architecture?21:39
ttxannegentle: I tried to motivate TC members to form one for all the cycle. I can't drive them all21:39
jokke_ttx: that would work21:39
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fungii'm unconvinced that waving a royal sceptre at a "working group" and making it official accomplishes much of anything21:39
* thingee is not sure if he made his point21:39
annegentleRockyg: zactly21:39
* thingee or made things worse21:39
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annegentlettx: and yes, we'd have to pick and choose (strategically if you will) based on the availability21:40
anteayathingee: no not worse21:40
fungithingee: i think people have simply ignored your call to move on21:40
thingee#topic open discussion21:40
fungiperhaps time to just use your #topic powers to force the issue ;)21:40
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:40
annegentleoh shoot sorry thingee I didn't realize you closed it up21:40
ttxfungi: I wish the meeting chair would have a magic wand to suddenly call all cats attention. I would use that21:40
tpatilI would like to talk about next steps for spec : Return request id to caller21:40
tpatil#link: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/15650821:40
tpatilIt got merged today. Thanks everyone again21:41
lifelessttx: its called kitty-treats21:41
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tpatilShould I reach to individual python-*client PTLs and request them to approve the blueprints?21:41
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Rockyglifeless, I have a cat who doesn't consider treats to be a treat21:41
thingeetpatil: would really recommend you start looking for liaisons for each project to be the point of contact.21:42
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lifelessRockyg: more cowbell ?21:42
jokke_ttx: that should be easy ... op the chair ... IRC has really powerful tools and channel flags to suppress noise ;)21:42
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tpatilthingee: Ok, got it. I will follow up with them then.21:42
tpatilThank you21:42
lifelesstpatil: I don't think you should need per-project blueprints at this point21:42
lifelesstpatil: you have a cross-project blueprint21:42
fungiyeah, we could get more aggressive with mode +/-v21:42
jrolllifeless: meh, blueprints are nice for tracking at release time though21:43
lifelesstpatil: the whole point of this exercise has been building cross project consensus :)21:43
fungibut that seems a tad draconian at this scale of participation21:43
Rockyglifeless, tpatil: might want per project for tracking purposes21:43
ttxfungi: ++21:43
jrolllifeless: not to say it's the right thing to do, just sayin'21:43
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jrollperhaps the liasion can file the BPs21:43
jrollfor the respective project21:43
lifelessjroll: I'll leave that to the projects21:43
jrollbecause it's just paperwork, no need for tpatil to do it all21:43
lifelessjroll: its not a release notes thing in M though21:43
lifelessjroll: exactly21:43
RockygJust placeholder bps, but when the are closed, you know another project is aligned21:43
fungi"the chair recognizes the gentlewoman in the blue nick"21:43
jrolllifeless: why wouldn't this be a release notes thing?21:43
thingeebps that link to the cross project spec. It's good for tracking in the individual projects.21:43
lifelessjroll: because reno21:44
lifelessjroll: I mean, blueprints are now decoupled from release notes21:44
ttxalso playing with -v usually results in privmsg hell21:44
Rockygthingee, ++ xactly21:44
lifelessjroll: we put together an in-project-tree thing to do release notes21:44
thingeethe blueprint just needs the link, that's it. simple21:44
jrolllifeless: well, how do you think folks compile release notes? :)21:44
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lifelessjroll: with reno, by writing the section when they propose the code21:44
lifelessjroll: yeah, exactly21:45
jrollthat's a fantastic idea I never thought of21:45
jokke_are/can we finally mova away from launchpad? :P21:45
ttxjroll: will be enabled on stable/liberty for now21:45
thingeeI would like to bring something to people's attention and specifically on with what jokke_ mentioned and what I hear all the time from people involved in OpenStack in some way..21:45
thingeeBeing able to keep up with the Dev ML...21:45
thingeeso i know you all read the newsletter weekly and excited for it's distribution that you probably noticed the new section21:45
fungijokke_: we're getting closer, but the last 10% requires 90% of the effort, or something like that21:46
thingee"What you need to know from the developer’s list"21:46
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jrollfungi: I volunteer ironic to be a maniphest beta tester21:46
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jokke_#link http://www.openstack.org/blog/2015/09/openstack-community-weekly-newsletter-sept-12-18/21:46
thingeeI'm going to start writing bullet point only quick important info from the dev list21:46
tpatilthingee: I will add bps under each project and start submitting code patches, also update whiteboard with crossproject spec approval21:46
Rockygjroll, link from maniphest task/issue to crossproject spec would work instead of project bps21:47
thingeewould love feedback on that first attempt...but I think if you read that, you'll be pretty much caught up from last week.21:47
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ttxthingee: I like them a lot, but you already know that.21:47
fungijroll: well, there's maniphest (or some other defect/lifecycle tracker), openstackid (authentication use cases) and also release artifacts (i'm starting work on improving that bit in the upcoming cycle)21:47
lifelessjroll: this thread - http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-August/072385.html21:47
jokke_thingee: _this_ is why this hour is so valuable! ;)21:47
Rockygthingee, I used them to update the prod_wg21:47
jrollRockyg: indeed, reason number 3761429 I'd like to get on maniphest :D21:47
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jrollfungi: yeah, just throwing my name out for when it's ready21:48
thingeeyou would also know that mordred really hates floating ips21:48
lifelessthingee: so two topics for that21:48
thingeefrom reading it21:48
lifelessthingee: the constraints stuff seems to be not widely enough socialised21:48
fungijroll: noted, ironic seems to like to live by the seat of its pants21:48
ttxjroll, Rockyg: so... the trick with Phabricator is that the component that does change tracking is not written yet21:48
lifelessthingee: despite lots of emails trying to do Just THat21:48
lifelessthingee: secondly the release notes thing21:48
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ttxso we'd have to emulate that somehow21:48
lifelessthingee: will be worth socialising21:48
mordredthingee: do I need to rant about them more?21:49
jrolllifeless: yep, I'm aware of the reno stuff, just never occurred to me to update while proposing code :)21:49
thingeemordred: get me a network21:49
thingeelifeless: constraints was already on my list.21:49
jokke_mordred: I think you need to find new topic for persistent rant unless you were allowed to order HP work laptop :P21:49
fungimordred: we'll get you a spot on coffee talk and you can rant about floating ips there21:50
ttxjroll: you can track my adventures at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Phabricator21:50
mordredfungi: awesome21:50
Rockygthanks, ttx!21:50
mordredjokke_: but why would I stop ranting about these? people till seem to think they're a great default operational model21:50
mordredjokke_: :)21:50
jrollttx: yep, I've started watching that :)21:50
jokke_mordred: I was more thinking of that it would be as good topic as any21:51
thingeeok anything else?21:51
mordredjokke_: AH! then yes, I'm with you21:51
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:51
openstackMeeting ended Tue Sep 22 21:51:58 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:52
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-09-22-21.01.html21:52
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-09-22-21.01.txt21:52
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-09-22-21.01.log.html21:52
jrollthanks for hosting, thingee !21:52
jokke_thanks folks!21:52
elmikothanks thingee21:52
lifelessthanks thingee21:52
fungithingee: awesome work21:52
EmilienMthanks thingee :)21:52
Rockyggreat job!21:52
* jokke_ has big boots to step in next week ... 9min short!21:52
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