Wednesday, 2015-09-23

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ShillaSaebi#startmeeting docteam14:01
openstackMeeting started Wed Sep 23 14:01:04 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ShillaSaebi. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: docteam)"14:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'docteam'14:01
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ShillaSaebihello and roll call for the docs meeting14:01
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ShillaSaebiok well looks like it's just us14:03
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Sam-I-Amsurprised there's no one else here14:03
ShillaSaebiyeah same here14:03
Sam-I-Ami usually hit the apac meeting14:03
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ShillaSaebialright well we can go ahead and get started14:04
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ShillaSaebi#topic Action items from the last meeting14:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Action items from the last meeting (Meeting topic: docteam)"14:05
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ShillaSaebiannegentle was to remove the PDF of the Security Guide from and that's been completed14:05
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ShillaSaebi#topic Liberty specs in review14:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Liberty specs in review (Meeting topic: docteam)"14:05
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ShillaSaebi#link (Third Party driver docs - please read, will be approved shortly)14:06
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Sam-I-Amyeah, that one is still hanging around14:06
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ShillaSaebi#link (merged)14:07
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ShillaSaebiany questions on those?14:07
ShillaSaebi#topic Speciality teams: #link
*** openstack changes topic to "Speciality teams: #link (Meeting topic: docteam)"14:08
ShillaSaebi#info HA Guide - Reviewing content. Any help appreciated.14:08
ShillaSaebi#info Install Guides - Need help testing against Liberty as packages are released.14:08
Sam-I-Amso the Big Patch merged14:09
ShillaSaebithats great14:09
Sam-I-Amarchitecture now uses linuxbridge rather than ovs, and nova-net is gone14:09
Sam-I-Amearly packages are available for ubuntu and possibly fedora/rh14:09
Sam-I-Amnow that the big patch is merged, additional patches will probably involve incremental per-service config changes for liberty14:10
Sam-I-Amseems like we're on track14:10
ShillaSaebivery nice14:10
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Sam-I-Ami'm also writing some contributor guidelines14:10
Sam-I-Ambecause we're having lots of bug triage and patch approval issues14:10
ShillaSaebithat will be very helpful14:10
ShillaSaebiI think it's necessary14:11
Sam-I-Amyeah, its too easy to break the install guide14:11
ShillaSaebi#info Networking Guide - Test & review for Liberty updates.14:11
Sam-I-Amhey i do that one too14:12
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ShillaSaebiyeah you sure do14:12
ShillaSaebiany updates on that?14:12
Sam-I-Amedgar is working on a patch for QoS14:12
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Sam-I-Amotherwise, its sort of waiting until liberty to get liberty updates to the scenarios14:12
Sam-I-Amwe still need contributions to the 'intro' sections14:12
Sam-I-Amthe how-stuff-works material is sparse14:13
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ShillaSaebiok good to know, I will pass the word along to my team too14:13
ShillaSaebi#info Security Guide - RST conversion complete, and live.14:13
ShillaSaebi#info User Guides - Cloud Admin Guide reorganization is underway.14:14
ShillaSaebi#info Ops/Arch Guides - Prepping for RST conversion in Mitaka.14:14
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ShillaSaebiwe are looking for contributors for the ops guide, if you are interested please hit Darren Chan or I up14:15
ShillaSaebi#info API docs - See status update #link
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ShillaSaebi#info Config Ref - Contact Guavain #link
ShillaSaebi#info OpenStack Labs - Contact Pranav Salunke #link
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ShillaSaebiok thats all on the specialty teams, anything else to add before we move on?14:16
Sam-I-Amnot here14:16
ShillaSaebi#topic Countdown to Liberty!14:17
*** openstack changes topic to "Countdown to Liberty! (Meeting topic: docteam)"14:17
ShillaSaebi#info 21 Days! #link
ShillaSaebi#info Release notes: #link
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ShillaSaebi#topic Mitaka Design Summit14:18
*** openstack changes topic to "Mitaka Design Summit (Meeting topic: docteam)"14:18
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ShillaSaebi#info Mitaka PTL elections #link
ShillaSaebi#info We have session allocations for docs now. Lana will be asking for suggestions14:19
Sam-I-Ami wont be at the summit14:20
ShillaSaebiSam-I-Am was just going to ask you that14:20
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Sam-I-Amyeah, things just didnt work out14:20
ShillaSaebiWell I know you will be in Austin :)14:20
Sam-I-Ammost likely14:20
ShillaSaebiwe have a smaller group heading to Tokyo as well14:21
Sam-I-Amif there's anything i need to be involved in, feel free to let me know and i can be awake for irc or video conf14:21
ShillaSaebiabsolutely will do, thank you14:21
ShillaSaebi#topic Spotlight bugs:14:21
*** openstack changes topic to "Spotlight bugs: (Meeting topic: docteam)"14:21
ShillaSaebi#link Document Neutron SSL-VPN for cloudadmin14:21
openstackLaunchpad bug 1284301 in openstack-manuals "Document Neutron SSL-VPN for cloudadmin" [Medium,Confirmed]14:21
ShillaSaebi#link Add user defined extra capabilities14:22
openstackLaunchpad bug 1288044 in openstack-manuals " Add user defined extra capabilities" [Low,Triaged]14:22
ShillaSaebi#link Make cors work better14:22
openstackLaunchpad bug 1292327 in openstack-api-site " Make cors work better." [Medium,Confirmed]14:22
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ShillaSaebi#topic Open discussion14:22
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: docteam)"14:22
ShillaSaebialright anything else we should discuss?14:22
Sam-I-Amnothing from me14:23
ShillaSaebiI am thinking I will start sending reminders again a day before to see if that will increase attendance for this meeting14:23
Sam-I-Amyeah we need to do that14:23
Sam-I-Amplus the wiki wasnt updated14:23
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Sam-I-Amusually e-mail + mention in the docs channel helps14:23
ShillaSaebiok good, will do that next time and strive for better attendance14:24
ShillaSaebiwell thanks for joining and have a great day14:24
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"14:24
openstackMeeting ended Wed Sep 23 14:24:34 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)14:24
openstackMinutes (text):
Sam-I-Amaight, back to work14:24
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SotKAnyone here for the StoryBoard meeting?15:00
SotK#startmeeting storyboard15:01
openstackMeeting started Wed Sep 23 15:01:39 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is SotK. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storyboard)"15:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'storyboard'15:01
SotK#link Agenda15:01
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SotK#topic Announcements15:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: storyboard)"15:02
SotKWe merged a bunch of patches recently!15:02
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Zarafinally got some +1s15:02
SotKAmongst other things, StoryBoard now supports paginated lists in the webclient!15:02
Zarathanks, sam15:02
Zarayes, makes it easier for us to see the other webclient bugs to fix, haha15:04
SotKI don't think there are any other things to announce15:04
SotKI also don't know of any urgent items, so...15:04
SotK#topic In-Progress Work15:04
*** openstack changes topic to "In-Progress Work (Meeting topic: storyboard)"15:04
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SotK#info SotK is still looking at worklists and boards.15:04
SotK#link Spec15:04
SotKAPI patches need some more fixes I discovered when finishing the UI.15:04
SotKUI stuff is pretty much ready to send patches for too, just need to add validation when adding a card to a board.15:04
Zarahehe, I'm happy to try to break everything when ready15:05
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SotKOnce I think its ready to send patches for I'll update the old public test StoryBoard I have so that the whole world can try to break it :D15:05
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Zarayay! subscriptions patch has had unnecessary stuff removed. things still need to be separated out, and it doesn't work for details pages yet. I could get it working today but I'd end up moving that code anyway, so I plan to do that bit in the same step as moving the other stuff into a service.15:06
SotKmakes sense :)15:06
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Zaraso currently learning more about angular services and things but it's well on the way. :)15:07
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SotK#info Zara is still working on subscriptions speedups, well on the way to being done!15:07
Zaraother current work is just continuing to review things as they come, I guess.15:07
SotKpretty much, yeah15:08
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Zaranothing else springs to mind15:08
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Zarawell done on the worklists work so far :)15:09
Zara(and boardS)15:09
Zaraerm, boards15:09
SotKheh, thanks :)15:09
SotKThere are no discussion topics on the agenda, so on to open discussion15:09
SotK#topic Open Discussion15:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: storyboard)"15:09
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Zarawe always need contributors and reviewers, so feel free to have a look around!15:10
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Zaraand also feel free to review everything just saying15:11
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Zarasimilarly, if there are features you'd like to see in storyboard, or bugs you'd like fixed15:12
Zarawe can actually page through them now ;)15:12
Zara!/project/457 and!/project/45615:13
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ZaraSotK has a markdown patch in review, if anyone's interested in that15:13
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SotK#link Markdown support in descriptions/comments15:14
SotKAnything else to discuss?15:15
ZaraI don't think so; things are going smoothly again so thanks for your help the other week (and the patch comments were also useful).15:15
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SotKno problem, happy to be of assistance :)15:16
SotKin that case...15:17
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"15:17
openstackMeeting ended Wed Sep 23 15:17:15 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:17
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thingee#startmeeting cinder16:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Sep 23 16:00:05 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is thingee. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'cinder'16:00
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thingeehey all!16:00
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SwansonGood morning.16:00
diablo_rojoHello :)16:00
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thingeeToday is my last time in this cushy chair in the meeting!16:00
thingeeit has been a fun ride16:00
thingeemaybe I'll fell in for the next PTL sometimes, who knows!16:01
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thingeeall is good though :)16:01
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smcginnisThanks for the last year!16:01
jgriffiththingee: if you think you're going to ride off into the sunset you're mistaken :)16:01
thingeediversity is good in leaders16:02
hemnajgriffith, +116:02
hemna :)16:02
thingee#topic announcements16:02
*** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:02
thingeeSo I don't really have any...16:02
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thingeeRC1 should be cut today16:03
thingee#info Cinder RC1 should be cut today16:03
dulekIsn't master opened for Mitaka?16:03
thingeedulek: yes that would mean mitaka would be open after that patch lands and ttx does the cut16:03
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diablo_rojothingee: so there won't be an rc2 then correct?16:04
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hemnathingee, are we pushing os-brick 0.4.1 for L ?16:04
e0newe need to not forget remove -2 after master unfreeze16:04
thingeediablo_rojo: there could be, if users, ops, other tests notice issues with rc 116:04
smcginnishemna: 5.0 I believe now.16:04
smcginnisthingee: That would be off of stable/liberty though, right?16:04
thingeehemna: os-brick 0.5.0 will be available16:04
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e0nehemna: it should be os-brick 0.5.016:05
hemnathingee, ok coolio.  I didn't see the patch up for it16:05
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thingeesmcginnis: the upper constraints was set, but not requirements.txt for os-brick 0.5.016:05
e0nehemna: Doug Hellmann anounced it yesterday in openstack-dev ML16:05
smcginnisthingee: Ah16:05
thingeejust keep that in mind16:05
hemnae0ne, sweet.16:05
mriedemnova has an rc2 for translations, not sure if cinder is in that same boat16:05
thingeemriedem: not...yea :D16:06
ttxmriedem: probably16:06
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ttx(depends how much work the translators will actually put in the coming days :)16:06
thingeeany other announcements before we move on?16:06
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smcginnis< crickets >16:07
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thingeeI did want to give a quick plug while I have everyone's attention...16:07
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thingeeso I know you all look forward to the openstack newsletter weekly!16:07
thingeeand there is a new section to help with a common problem people give..16:08
thingee"What you need to know from the developer’s list"16:08
thingeesummary of the dev list... quick important points to keep you updated without having to read the entire thread16:08
xyangthingee: that's a great addition16:08
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geguileoSounds great!16:09
thingeegive me feedback please! :)16:09
thingeeok lets gets started!16:09
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thingeeagenda for today!16:09
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thingeemaybe with design summit topics16:10
thingeeoh and nova volume bug by mriedem16:10
thingeegot it16:10
thingee#topic Cinder API races bugs16:10
*** openstack changes topic to "Cinder API races bugs (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:10
thingeegeguileo: hi16:10
geguileoSorry, forgot to remote that16:10
thingeetoo late16:10
thingeegeguileo: :)16:10
geguileoWe agreed in cinder channel to not include it16:10
thingee#info first patch16:10
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geguileoSo nothing to discuss really16:11
thingee#info This follows dependency chain16:11
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thingee#info nothing to discuss16:11
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thingeeno prob16:11
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thingee#agreed in the cinder channel it was agreed this would not be in L16:12
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thingee#topic Nova volume bugs16:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Nova volume bugs (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:12
thingeemriedem: hi16:12
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mriedemhey, so just a quick note about nova volume bugs16:12
thingee#info there are lots of nova/cinder bugs16:12
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mriedemi was poking through those last friday16:12
mriedemit's at 10216:12
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mriedemi suspect some are closed now16:13
mriedemsome could be issues in os-brick16:13
thingeemriedem: I actually went through a bit of nova bugs to triage originally to that tag.16:13
hemnamriedem, thanks for raising this one.  I'm starting to go through that list.  I think some of them might already be fixed using os-brick16:13
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mriedemi was also noting how many multipath bugs there were16:13
mriedemwhich i'm assuming is in no way CI tested16:13
hemnamriedem, some of the cinder 3rd party CI tests use mpath16:14
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hemnasome don't16:14
patrickeastmy ci tests multipath FC and iSCSI... not sure if anyone else is though16:14
thingee#info some might actually already be fixed. Maybe also since os-brick.16:14
mriedemah, that's good to know16:14
hemnabut I don't think any of the multipath tests actually look at the state of the host after the detach is done16:14
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mriedemb/c there was a bug i think that actually said fc attach with multipath failed16:14
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mriedemthe problem i have with looking at some of these is i don't have an environment to recreate16:14
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mriedemso was hoping to lean more on the cinder people that had these environments16:14
hemnamriedem, I'm working on some os-brick patches that will allow us to test before detach and after detach to make sure the volumes are gone.
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thingee#info mriedem noticed many multi-path bugs. patrickeast has Pure CI testing multi-path with FC and iSCSI16:15
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hemnamriedem, I'd like some feedback on the spec if possible.  that would help cover one of the missing pieces.16:15
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hemnawe can test iSCSI and FC multipath here16:16
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xyangwe also test iSCSI and FC multipath16:16
mriedemi don't have anything else really16:16
mriedemwas just raising awareness16:16
hemnasince scottda is the nova liason, he and I can start looking through those bugs as well.16:17
* hemna volunteers scottda for more work :)16:17
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thingeescottda: might be good to start prioritizing what we want to focus on for Mitaka. I know some of these already come from your initial list of bugs.16:18
hemnascottda, no problem, I was pretty sure you were getting bored anyway :)16:18
jungleboyj_hemna: I also noted that we could get some of my team helping out on those as well.16:18
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thingeescottda: prioritize and a group...we might not be able to do all 100 bugs... but some managable goal for Mitaka I think would be good16:18
scottdaYes, We'll gather bugs , prioritize and publish . I'll get something going by next week's meeting.16:18
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thingee#action scottda to priortize and set some expectation for Mitaka16:19
thingeemriedem: anything else?16:19
markus_zscottda: Would you keep me in the loop? I'm the nova bug czar since 2 months or so.16:19
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thingee#info markus_z would like to stay in the loop, being the nova bug czar16:19
scottdasure markus_z16:19
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markus_zscottda: thanks16:20
mriedemthingee: nope16:20
thingee#topic Design summit topics16:20
*** openstack changes topic to "Design summit topics (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:20
markus_zRegarding bugs, I have this one in the pipeline:
markus_zwhops, too late :(16:20
thingeeso we got some agreements from last week16:21
thingeelet me just skim action items from last meeting in this area...16:21
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jgriffithmarkus_z: I like that proposal BTW16:22
thingeepatrickeast: you have an action for making an etherpad on experimental API research?16:22
markus_zjgriffith: thanks, I'm currently figuring out how to make that an project wide blueprint.16:22
thingeepatrickeast: didn't see a link for it though on the topic etherpad16:22
thingeeok, we'll circle back16:23
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thingeedulek: you have an action for an etherpad for nova AZ issues16:24
patrickeastthingee: ah, sry, stepped away for a minute.... I do still intend to do that, have been side tracked with some other bugs16:24
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thingeepatrickeast: ok, I'll make a note for the next meeting organizer16:24
thingee#action patrickeast to make etherpad on expermental API research16:24
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thingeewake up everyone :)16:25
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dulekthingee: Yeah, that haven't happened, I was waiting for DuncanT to post his findings and discussion.16:25
thingeeDuncanT: how's that coming along?16:25
dulekthingee: Added it to TODO for tomorrow morning, DuncanT will add there I think. Sorry about that!16:25
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thingeedulek: no problem, just making sure we're ready for the summit! :)16:26
bswartzpatrickeast: ping me when you do that16:26
scottdapatrickeast: me too16:26
thingee#action dulk to post an etherpad link under the topic proposal availability zone issues.16:26
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patrickeastbswartz: scottda: will do16:26
thingee#action DuncanT to post his findings and discuss with dulek16:27
* bswartz is already waist-deep in experimental APIs and their issues16:27
thingeerhedlind and eharney how is the driver api doc coming along?16:27
eharneythingee: not really moving yet, but i'll be getting things going more this week16:27
thingeeok, next meeting we'll circle back16:28
thingee#action rhedlind and eharney to collaborate on a driver api doc for cinder dev docs16:28
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thingeehemna: renewing spec return VolumeIsBusy for ing states16:28
hemnaI started updating that guy yesterday16:28
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thingeevery nice!16:28
hemnaworking on some feedback from dulek and will push up a new version today.16:29
thingee#info spec renewed for VolumeIsBusy with ing states16:29
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hemnamore reviewers would be good16:29
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thingeescottda: you're still set to present that spec to Nova in their next meeting :P16:29
scottdaWe need a Nova spec for that as well16:29
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dulekhemna: I'll be around, but may reply with delay. Anyway - ask what you need. :)16:30
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scottdaYes, but I'd like to have a Nova spec ready for Nova meeting.16:30
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hemnascottda, ok I can put that together.16:30
scottdacool, thx. Perhaps mriedem has input or can help with the NOva spec?16:30
thingee#action hemna to put together a nova spec for scottda to present VolumeIsBusy being returned for ing states at next nova meeting16:30
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hemnascottda, yah I was hoping to get some feedback/help from mriedem on that as well16:31
mriedemi remember -1ing a cinder spec at one point16:31
thingeejgriffith: POC's for ABC class proposals16:31
hemnamriedem, heh yah, that url ^^16:31
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scottdamriedem: We will have cinder-api-microversions for this. YOur -1 was because of API changes16:31
jgriffiththingee: nothing this week16:32
thingeejgriffith: I think we wanted this ready for your topic at the summit16:32
* jgriffith still has a month :)16:32
thingeejgriffith: just checking in16:32
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thingeeok, I won't circle back :D16:32
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thingeejgriffith: I'm assuming you had discussions with eharney on that and your other topic of should cinder be the next vipr?16:33
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jgriffiththingee: not really... will need to try and link up with him next week16:33
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jgriffiththingee: I think we're both a bit busy this week16:34
thingeejgriffith: ok just reminding :)16:34
eharneywill do16:34
thingeesummit will be here before you know it16:34
jgriffiththingee: good thing, because I will certainly forget again :)16:34
thingeeok lets look at new topics16:34
hemnathingee, so do we only have 2 fishbowls planned (according to the etherpad ?)16:34
thingeehemna: yes!16:34
thingeeso we have four fish bowl slots... we only have two proposed which I agree are fine..just need to have etherpads ready ;)16:35
smcginnisjgriffith: If I can find the time I would be interested in helping with the ABC/zope/etc POCs16:35
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thingeedulek: dulek patrickeast ^ ;)16:35
jgriffithsmcginnis: excellent16:35
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smcginnisWondering if "Future of Cinder, and getting back to our roots" should move to a fishbowl?16:35
thingeelets take a look at working sessions16:35
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e0nejgriffith: I will be glad to discuss next VIPR too16:35
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thingeeSo Milestone deadline ... not sure who put that up... could be a sprint16:36
jgriffithe0ne: noted16:36
e0nejgriffith: my bo cinder-without-nova could be related16:36
thingeeanyone have thoughts?16:36
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hemnae0ne, a session on attaching cinder volumes w/o nova could be good16:36
eharneyi think jgriffith had a different one about deadlines below16:36
e0nethingee: we could discuss it in a cinder weekly meeting, imo16:36
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thingee#info working session proposal: milestone deadlines16:37
jgriffitheharney: yes, I did16:37
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smcginnise0ne: I agree.16:37
e0nehemna: will you add a proposal?16:37
thingeeI have two agreements16:37
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jgriffithI don't know where that one came from either... but not sure it needs a working session slot16:37
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jungleboyj_thingee: I think that is a good place for that discussion.16:37
bswartzmilestone deadlines is not my proposal but do have a proposal related to milestone deadlines -- I'll make a ML post16:37
smcginnisjungleboyj_: That being weekly meeting?16:37
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thingeesmcginnis: I was also wondering what he was agreeing to :)16:38
jungleboyj_smcginnis: or sprint, don't need a whole session on it.16:38
jungleboyj_thingee: smcginnis Sorry, too many things going on at once.16:38
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thingee#agreed moving milestone deadlines to sprint16:38
jungleboyj_thingee: ++16:38
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hemnajungleboyj_, a sprint session would be good for it.  I'd like to see any/all deadlines decided upon asap and published.16:38
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jungleboyj_hemna: ++16:39
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smcginnishemna: The sooner that starts getting communicated, the better.16:39
thingee#info working session proposal cinder-api microversions16:39
hemnasmcginnis, +A16:39
e0nesmcginnis: agree16:39
xyangare we going to add any new minimum feature requirement16:39
thingeescottda: hi16:39
scottdaI've already put up spec and code16:39
smcginnisxyang: Any you think should become minimum?16:39
thingeeso we already have the fishbowl session which is experimental api and micro versions16:40
thingeepatrickeast: ^16:40
scottda   #spec16:40
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xyangsmcginnis: migration, retype, manage16:40
thingee#info spec for microversions16:40
scottda #code16:40
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scottdaI thought we might need a session to iron out details16:40
jungleboyj_xyang: What would we add to the minimum?16:40
thingee#info code for microversions16:40
xyangjungleboyj_: let me just add a note to the etherpad16:41
smcginnisxyang: Seems reasonable.16:41
thingeescottda: this is true. the fish bowl will be more user facing... working session can be more of a technical deep dive16:41
patrickeasti kind of like the idea of having another more deep dive in how the microversions will be implemented16:41
thingeepatrickeast: does that make sense? ^16:41
hemnaalso, FWIW, we seem to have a bunch of things that are looking like dependencies on the microversioning stuff landing early in M16:41
jungleboyj_xyang: Ok.16:41
thingeepatrickeast: yay!16:41
patrickeastthingee: yep :D16:41
thingee#agreed Cinder-api microversion working session deep dive seems good!16:42
thingeescottda: thanks16:42
hemnaso the more folks looking at scottda's spec and code the better.16:42
thingeescottda: and thank for already being ready with spec/code16:42
scottdasure. As hemna said, it's a dependency for a few things16:42
thingee#info working session proposal: Remove volume manager locks16:42
thingeehemna: hi16:42
hemnaso, I don't think we need a fishbowl for this one as it's more of a deep dive16:43
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thingeehemna: I agree.16:43
hemnathis one has some dependencies that need to happen prior to this.16:43
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hemnathe microversion stuff that scottda is working on16:43
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hemnaas well as gorka's compare/swap changes16:43
thingeehemna: users shouldn't really know or care about this... just that stuff works16:43
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hemnathingee, yah.16:43
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hemnaI'm still working on the review for the spec, so any eyes on it at this point would be good.16:44
hemnaI'd like to get started on the code soon, but want to iron it out first in spec if possible.16:44
thingeehemna: my question though is what are we going to do differently here? I think last summit we had this similar topic, but it didn't really go anywhere.16:44
hemnathingee, I think there are a few small differences16:44
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hemnamostly the above mentioned dependencies16:45
dulekMaybe a sprint session then?16:45
hemnaand the addition of the new 'reading' states that gorka has mentioned as well16:45
hemnathose might already be in place now thought, unsure.16:45
hemnathe other related topic16:45
jgriffiththingee: hemna IMO removal of locks shouldn't need a session at all, just some code16:45
hemnais how to deal with the microversioning stuffs.16:45
jgriffithno  spec either really16:45
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hemnawhat to do when the version doesn't match the new code.  how to deal with the existing volume manager locks, etc.16:46
* jgriffith is no completely confused16:46
hemnathat part I'm unclear on still.16:46
hemnaanyway, we can take it offline in #cinder channel16:47
scottdahemna: We can talk. I *think* I've got a picture about how it will work16:47
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jgriffiths/is no/is now/16:47
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thingeeok, just going to leave a note for the next meeting organizer to check back16:47
jgriffithseems to be multiple conversations taking place, none having anything to do with current topic?16:47
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hemnascottda, coolio.   microversioning API only changes seems straight forward, but stuff that bleeds into the volume manager is a bit more involved.16:47
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thingee#action scottda will talk to hemna on volume manager locks to see if we need a topic in working session16:48
hemnajgriffith, it's all related.16:48
thingeeok 11 mins for sprints16:49
thingeethere's a lot16:49
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thingeeone I want to focus on first are the potential to other session types16:49
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thingee#info sprint proposal: Future of Cinder and getting back to our roots16:49
thingeejgriffith: hi!16:49
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jgriffithThat might be a good fishbowl as you mentioned (or somebody mentioned)16:50
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thingeeso my initial question is the difference here with your working session cinder should/could be the next vipr16:50
smcginnisSeems like it might have wide interest. Or impact.16:50
jungleboyj_jgriffith: That makes sense to me.  Seems like we want that to be open to a wider audience.16:50
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thingeeI know one session is user wide, the other is cinder dev wide16:51
jgriffiththingee: ahh... yeah, so they're different in my mind16:51
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jgriffiththingee: one is stressing Cinder/OpenStack is NOT VMware and we are crazy with vendor features16:51
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jgriffiththingee: the other is, how to make Cinder something more consumable outside of OpenStack16:51
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jgriffiththingee: and what features to all these "new" abstractions have that we're missing and do they really matter?  Or is it just marketing16:52
jgriffithfeatures is not a good choice of words maybe...16:52
jgriffithbut more along design16:52
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jgriffithare there things we need to look at in our design to offer more flexibility for plugins that does not impact core API16:53
jgriffiththat sort of thing... does that clarify at all?16:53
thingeejgriffith: ok, so the future of cinder is more focused on reference implementation16:53
thingeebut a catchy title, as you would want... for a fish bowl :)16:53
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jgriffiththingee: and what do we do with these things like multi-attach, CG's, replication etc etc etc16:54
thingeegot it16:54
jgriffiththingee: as in... "don't do them"16:54
jgriffithor "do"16:54
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thingeewell, users might be like "I want all the features"16:54
jgriffiththingee: indeed!16:54
jungleboyj_Do all the things!  Now!16:54
thingeebut ... some of us will be like "lets give them what they want because it makes my company happy" :)16:54
hemnathis sounds like the extensions discussion16:54
jgriffithhemna: it's not16:55
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jgriffithit's about Cinder and what it should be16:55
thingeeand some of us will be like "this hurts cinder core, how do we ensure these features work without the reference..."16:55
jgriffithregardless of the other components like extensions, contribs experimental API's and all that craziness16:55
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thingeejgriffith: I agree, it's different from extensions.16:55
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jgriffithhemna: it's more about a robust stable service that's maintainable/supportable16:56
thingeeso I think the discussion will play out like that.16:56
smcginnisjgriffith: So - should we be adding new features that aren't core across all of not? Is that the point?16:56
jgriffithand actually "works" without being a mess of spaghetti code and weird hacks all over the place16:56
hemnajgriffith, I'm all for that :)  re: fixing nova <--> cinder interactions.16:56
jgriffithsmcginnis: yes, that's part of the point absolutely16:56
smcginniss/of not/or not/16:56
* thingee is standing because there is a spider somewhere on his desk16:57
jgriffiththingee: you don't like spiders?16:57
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* jgriffith doesn't like them either... can't tell what kind of mood they're in16:57
thingeejgriffith: not quick black spiders16:57
bswartzonly 2 minutes left16:57
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smcginnisMy wife would be screaming bloody murder.16:57
diablo_rojoit's the eyes...too many of them..16:57
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* hemna grabs the shotgun.....16:58
jgriffithdiablo_rojo: yeah, I don't trust anything with more than 3 eyes16:58
thingeeok... so fishbowl wise, I'm not sure the user can contribute to this.16:58
xyangcan we not talk about bugs here?:)16:58
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jgriffiththingee: yeah, may be a good point16:58
thingeeit might be good to get user/ops feedback though, because we're essentially saying we want to move away from providing all the features16:58
diablo_rojojgriffith: so people with glasses are untrustworthy?16:58
jgriffiththingee: and honestly we as a dev team may not be able to even agree on anything here anyway16:58
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jgriffithdiablo_rojo: those aren't eyes... just lenses :)16:59
thingeejgriffith: I think it's going to be the next interesting move for the cinder PTL16:59
scottdathingee: ++ I think user/ops will care about this16:59
thingee*hint hint*16:59
jgriffiththingee: indeed!!16:59
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jgriffithIMO it really could be a make or break for Cinder16:59
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thingeeyou want fame and glamour cinder ptl, this decision is it16:59
diablo_rojojgriffith:  okay good :)16:59
jgriffithNo pressure future PTL :)16:59
jungleboyj_When are the election results?16:59
smcginnisHah, fame and glamour.16:59
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thingeeok we're out of time..17:00
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thingeethanks all for letting me lead the team for two cycles17:00
thingeebeen a pleasure17:00
thingeeand I'm not disappearing17:00
thingeeso no rumors17:00
geguileothingee: thank you for leading!!17:00
smcginnisThanks thingee!17:00
jgriffithjungleboyj_: 13:00 UTC Sept 2417:00
hemnathingee, yah nice job man.17:00
tbarronthingee: thanks!17:00
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e0nethingee: thanks for leading!17:00
kmartinthanks thingee17:00
jgriffiththanks Mike!!!17:00
eharneydon't let that spider take you out :)  thanks for the leadership17:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"17:00
openstackMeeting ended Wed Sep 23 17:00:43 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:00
openstackMinutes (text):
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thingeethe final thing said in my final meeting chairing is eharney say don't let that spider take you out17:01
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stevebaker#startmeeting heat20:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Sep 23 20:00:16 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is stevebaker. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)"20:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'heat'20:00
stevebaker#topic rollcall20:00
prazumovskyhi all!20:00
*** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: heat)"20:00
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stevebakerthis will be my last meeting as PTL!20:01
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stevebakeroh, skraynev is here20:02
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stevebakerzaneb: ping20:02
stevebaker#topic adding items to the agenda
*** openstack changes topic to "adding items to the agenda (Meeting topic: heat)"20:02
zaneboh, it's that week20:02
* ryansb is late for attendance20:03
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stevebaker#topic rc1 is out, lets go through potential rc2 bugs20:04
*** openstack changes topic to "rc1 is out, lets go through potential rc2 bugs (Meeting topic: heat)"20:04
stevebakerrc1 is indeed out!20:04
zanebskraynev_: loved your PTL candidacy message btw20:04
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skraynev_do we have a list ?20:04
skraynev_of potential bugs ?20:04
pas-hathis one?20:04
skraynev_pas-ha: thx :)20:04
stevebakerwe have a regression on nova-network, so we'll need an rc220:05
openstackLaunchpad bug 1498079 in heat "Heat stack creation fails with 501: HttpNotImplemented Error" [Critical,In progress] - Assigned to Angus Salkeld (asalkeld)20:05
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pas-haalso I would vote this goes in rc2 too
zanebpeople can't stop using nova-network too soon20:06
pas-ha(volume error status on delete afterfix)20:06
skraynev_zaneb: your message and article mentioned in it inspired me :)20:06
stevebakerso this is a good chance to fix any other bugs that should get to liberty20:06
zanebskraynev_: actually I just cunningly timed it so I could take credit for what I knew was going to happen anyway ;)20:07
stevebakerespecially gate failures, since this will make getting backports in a real pain20:07
stevebakerzaneb: could you raise a dedicated bug for ?20:07
zanebstevebaker: I mean... I could20:08
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pas-hajust for housekeeping :)20:08
zanebcan't we just post a backport and approve it?20:08
zanebit's really part of the same bug20:08
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stevebakerwe should reopen that bug then20:08
skraynev_zaneb: good move :)20:09
zanebstevebaker: I don't mind, just seems like it would be easier to find later if it's all one bug20:10
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stevebakerzaneb: too late, I've reopened, and approved the change with Closes-Bug20:10
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stevebakerwhile we're on this topic, there are only a couple of test failures on the convergence test, it would be great if we could get fixes for those into rc220:11
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openstackLaunchpad bug 1498660 in heat "Convergence: test_stack_update_replace_with_ip_rollback failure" [High,Triaged] - Assigned to Rakesh H S (rh-s)20:11
openstackLaunchpad bug 1486281 in heat "convergence functional tests sometimes timeout" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Rakesh H S (rh-s)20:12
stevebakerskraynev_: some thought may need to be given to restore_after_rollback on convergence for
openstackLaunchpad bug 1498660 in heat "Convergence: test_stack_update_replace_with_ip_rollback failure" [High,Triaged] - Assigned to Rakesh H S (rh-s)20:13
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* skraynev_ is surprised..20:14
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skraynev_stevebaker: will take a look tomorrow20:14
stevebakerok, Rakesh may come up with something too20:15
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skraynev_sure, I don't mind20:15
stevebaker#topic state of the gate20:15
*** openstack changes topic to "state of the gate (Meeting topic: heat)"20:15
stevebaker... is pants20:15
skraynev_I will discuss it with him20:15
shardystevebaker: what's broken now?  I thought things were merging pretty quickly pre-rc120:16
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shardyOr at least, there were a few hours where things were going fairly smoothly ;)20:16
stevebakershardy: is happening a lot, I'll take a look at that today20:16
openstackLaunchpad bug 1496555 in heat "Software Deployment metadata timeout" [High,Triaged]20:16
shardystevebaker: Aha, that's actually possibly a good thing, as I believe it's manifesting via TripleO CI failures too20:17
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shardyat least we have a heat specific reproducer now20:17
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stevebakershardy: hmm, I sure hope not. my theory is that it is a test race rather than a real bug, but I could be wrong20:18
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stevebakerthere is this one too
openstackLaunchpad bug 1497157 in heat "heat_integrationtests.functional.test_resource_group.ResourceGroupTest.test_props_update fails " [Medium,Triaged]20:20
stevebakerwhich is unassigned currently20:20
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pas-hastevebaker, try to rename test/module, that should change the test balance between workers20:20
pas-hasee if it helps20:20
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stevebakerpas-ha: I don't even vaguely understand what you're talking about :)20:21
shardystevebaker: ramishra has been investigating a similar/same issue I believe20:21
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shardystevebaker: if nobody else takes it I'll chat to him tomorrow and see if he might pick it up20:22
pas-haif it is a race, it happens due some other particular test being run in parallel. you should try to make it spread test differently between workers, might help20:22
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stevebakerhmm, that sounds like a real bug then20:22
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pas-haor at least prove it is a race20:23
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stevebaker#topic Liberty release notes20:23
*** openstack changes topic to "Liberty release notes (Meeting topic: heat)"20:23
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stevebakerI made a start
stevebakerwe need a short paragraph for the state of convergence, I'll write one if nobody else does.20:24
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stevebakerany links to blueprints will become a single line summary of the change20:25
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stevebaker30 new resources, thats epic (sure, many were in contrib)20:26
pas-hathere's one thing wrong there - I've only marked nova flavor as admin-only resource for now
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pas-haline 7920:26
stevebakerpas-ha: sure, but default openstack policy will make those other admin resources fail even if they're visible20:26
pas-hayes, that's true20:26
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pas-habut idea was to fail early20:27
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stevebakerwe should probably add policy for the OS::Keystone::* too then20:27
pas-hai mean the part "only visible to" is not yet corerct20:28
pas-habut we could quickly patch policy.json for that, will do tomorrow20:28
stevebakerpas-ha: assuming they customise their policy, which they should. I wouldn't want to tie down the default policy too much20:28
shardyI'm confused, are we proposing per-resource policy defined in heat?20:29
pas-hashardy, it is already there20:29
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skraynev_stevebaker: could you please add also note about batching for create/update for RG?20:29
* zaneb can't wait to see the keystone devs reaction when they hear about this ;)20:29
pas-hahiding/denying create for admin-only resources20:29
stevebakerpas-ha: actually, lets leave the flavor on there as the example, but just encourage operators to write their own appropriate policy20:29
skraynev_looks like it was missed in etherpad20:29
pas-haok, sounds reasonable20:30
shardypas-ha: where, I only see per API path ones in policy.json?20:30
stevebakerskraynev_: like 26, it will become a bullet summary20:30
shardyIMO we really shouldn't be doing anything which enforces per resource policy, it's impossible to do correctly without a centralized policy service/repository20:30
stevebakershardy: yes, so lets document that it is up to the operators to write their policy20:31
skraynev_stevebaker: I see. missed links on bps. was shocked by huge list of new resources :)20:31
zanebshardy: that's true, but we'll be waiting forever for keystone to come up with that20:31
skraynev_stevebaker: thx ;)20:31
pas-haits not even keystone I believe, isn't it Congress?20:31
stevebakerlike 93, can you please comment on Upgrading from Kilo to Liberty?20:31
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zanebpas-ha: No!20:32
stevebakerdo we need more?20:32
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shardypas-ha: thanks, I missed that off the bottom of my screen ;)20:32
shardyzaneb: I guess, it still seems wrong to me, but at least it can be documented and easily bypassed20:33
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stevebakerno comments on line 93-94?20:35
zanebshardy: it's not wrong so much as just a filthy, error-prone hack. basically what got us where we are today ;)20:35
zanebstevebaker: do we have rpc version pinning yet?20:35
shardyzaneb: keystone v3 actually already has a policy interface, only nobody uses it20:35
skraynev_stevebaker: no from my side20:35
zanebstevebaker: I thought we did not, in which case we should mention that as a reason to take the service down20:36
stevebakerzaneb: I don't think so. however20:36
zanebstevebaker: unless we do, it which case we should mention how to pin it across an upgrade20:36
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stevebakerzaneb: as long as the first service instances to be upgraded includes engines wouldn't that allow any new RPC requests to be serviced?20:37
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zanebstevebaker: engines talk to engines now (for nested stacks), so no20:38
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stevebakerzaneb: multiple engines then20:38
zanebor at least, not necessarily20:38
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shardyzaneb: how is that different to API->engine if both use the rpc client API?20:39
stevebakerok, I'll finish of the release notes and put them on the wiki. We can continue to edit if necessary20:39
zanebshardy: a new engine can send a message to an old engine even if you update all the engines before the apis20:39
stevebaker#chair skraynev_ zaneb20:39
skraynev_stevebaker: +120:39
openstackCurrent chairs: skraynev_ stevebaker zaneb20:39
shardyzaneb: aha, thx20:40
stevebakerI need to do the school run20:40
stevebaker#topic Summit session topics20:40
*** openstack changes topic to "Summit session topics (Meeting topic: heat)"20:40
skraynev_stevebaker: ok.20:40
stevebakerskraynev_: its over to you :)20:40
skraynev_yeah. it's mine20:40
zanebskraynev_: this is your topic anyway :)20:40
skraynev_I have prepared this etherpad:20:40
skraynev_so welcome with ideas and comments about several already existing topics20:41
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skraynev_I just added the most important topics with description, as I see it.20:42
jdobthere's going to be at least one proposed about the resource capabilities stuff. i'll work with shardy about getting it written up20:42
shardyskraynev_: I'd like to propose a session on composition enhancements (the capabilities spec which is currently blocked)20:42
jdobright, that one :)20:42
shardyjdob: haha ;)20:42
shardyskraynev_: I'll add it to the etherpad for consideration20:43
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skraynev_shardy: sure. Could you add to etherpad ?20:43
skraynev_yeah :)20:43
pas-hashardy, jdob is that on checking/formalizing resource interfaces?20:43
jdobya, and also the introspection-y APIs to ask questions about them20:44
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jdob  <-- that one20:45
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shardypas-ha: it's about making advanced composition via the resource_registry easier20:45
pas-hayeah, remember it20:45
shardyI thought we were close to consensus in the spec review, then zaneb disagreed ;)20:46
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shardySo it'd be good to try to get a common understanding20:46
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shardyI may hack on some PoC code beforehand if I have time20:46
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zanebmy objections were somewhat lessened by face to face discussion20:46
zanebbut I do think a workroom session on this would be great20:46
jdobnote to self: physical intimidation works with zaneb20:47
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shardyzaneb: that's good to hear, but it'd be good to get folks agreement so we can get on with implementing it/something20:47
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shardyzaneb: you're welcome to remove your -1 if you now don't mind the idea ;)20:48
skraynev_zaneb: anyway we have a lot of slots... and small list of sessions :)20:48
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zanebshardy: that would require me to read it again and try to remember what I think ;)20:48
skraynev_so currently it's possible to nominate for session, I suppose ;)20:48
pas-hawe could try inviting Murano people to that session as well20:48
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shardypas-ha: Yup, that would be good, I was looking for feedback on how this fits with the murano composition concepts20:49
zanebpas-ha: so one of the things that reduced my objection was finding out that Murano doesn't attempt to do anything similar20:49
zanebunlike what I had assumed20:50
shardyAFAICT they are complimentary, in that murano composition is much higher level20:50
shardye.g wiring instances together doing different things, vs composing multiple fragments to build one instance20:50
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skraynev_zaneb, shardy: anything else about current topic ?20:51
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zanebnot from me20:52
skraynev_or may  move  to the last one ? ;)20:52
skraynev_#topic How we deal with new API versions20:52
*** openstack changes topic to "How we deal with new API versions (Meeting topic: heat)"20:52
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skraynev_I have added this one after reading mail thread related with lbaas v2 API resources20:53
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shardyskraynev_: I'd always assumed we'd aim to support the latest stable API for any services, in the corresponding Heat release20:54
pas-haafaik for now we've only had a cinder vs cinder v220:54
skraynev_last idea was to use another name space for lbaas v2 resources, like OS::lbaas20:54
shardyI know we've sometimes failed at that and had an older version in some cases20:54
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kfox1111ideally, the newest api for a service will be a superset of the previous versions, and so the resource doesn't have to change and is transparent to the user.20:54
pas-haand cinder v1 is to be removed in M20:55
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zanebshardy: that's easy when there are no backward compatibility issues20:55
kfox1111the odd thing about lbaasv2 is that it is basically a completely different service then lbaasv1.20:55
stevebakerwhat is neutron's migration story? will existing state from v1 be moved to v2 during cloud upgrade?20:55
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zanebbut generally new api versions exist because... there are20:55
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shardykfox1111: invariably for the rest API's thats never the case, because folks only bump major versions when they want to make major/breaking changes20:55
skraynev_shardy: agree with zaneb20:55
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kfox1111see cinder or glance api changes. listing images works through both api's.20:55
pas-hashardy, just like we are doing20:56
kfox1111but lbaasv1 vs v2 wont.20:56
zanebI think shardy and I are saying the same thing20:56
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skraynev_if we support only last one and don't have real huge differences it's not difficult20:56
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skraynev_but looks like we can do the same for lbaas20:56
kfox1111for services where v1 -> v2 keeps all your stuff, yeah.20:56
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shardykfox1111: This sounds like another example of a uniquely broken neutron API which we'll have to somehow paper over then :(20:57
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kfox1111but if v1 and v2 are seperate services, there's a migration period where users may need to support v1 and v2 at the same time while migration happens.20:57
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kfox1111shardy: yeah. :(20:57
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zanebshardy: surely not :P20:57
kfox1111I think they assumed wrongly that v1 was never used and they started fresh. :/20:57
shardykfox1111: I agree that the basic functionality should be maintained, even if the interfaces aren't identical20:57
* shardy sighs20:57
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kfox1111so since they are completely seperate, the cleanest thing would be to have a completely different set of resources. :/20:58
shardyLbaasV2 resource and deprecate the old one then?20:58
pas-haI am basically in favor of ::LBaaS:: naming20:58
shardyit's dumb that we have to even consider that tho :(20:58
skraynev_shardy: no. please without suffix V* :)20:58
kfox1111The other possibilty is that the resource names are different enough that the resources could figure out if it was a v1 or v2 api.20:58
stevebakerit would be good to get some lbaas folk in the room for that session20:58
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kfox1111I think v1 calls lb's pools, and v2 calls them lb's.20:59
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zanebkfox1111: well +1 for sanity there anyway20:59
skraynev_1 minute20:59
stevebakerkfox1111: we can always add properties which explicitly state what version to use20:59
pas-haAFAIR there is now a real LB resource (our current Neutron one is an artificial Heat-only thing)20:59
shardyskraynev_: heh, I just mean, if they actually do a different thing, we'll have to name them differently20:59
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zanebwill the v2 API support the pattern where we have a resource for the LB member that we put inside the scaled template of a scaling group?21:00
kfox1111a couple of things like poolmembers I think are the same, but heat could use the suplied lbid and ask neutron which version it belongs to, and then use the right api. but thats more work. but easier on the user.21:00
kfox1111I'm good either way.21:00
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skraynev_shardy: oops. got it. but please do not use version in names still ;)21:00
skraynev_out of time21:00
kfox1111zaneb: I sure hope so. Its very broken otherwise. :/21:00
shardytimes up!21:00
skraynev_let's continue in #heat21:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"21:00
openstackMeeting ended Wed Sep 23 21:00:49 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)21:00
openstackMinutes (text):
notmyname#startmeeting swift21:01
openstackMeeting started Wed Sep 23 21:01:03 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)"21:01
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'swift'21:01
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notmynameswift meeting time! who's here?21:01
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notmynametorgomatic: clayg: ?21:01
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notmynameacoles_: said he'd be a few minutes late21:02
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notmynametorgomatic: do you see clayg in the office? (assuming you're there)21:03
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torgomaticnotmyname: yeah, he's over there21:03
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notmynameok, let's get started then21:03
notmynameso, Liberty is upon us21:03
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notmynameall together now:21:03
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notmyname  /thatsoutoftheway21:04
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torgomatichooray, another time-based release21:04
notmynameso yeah, we've got to cut our liberty release at the end of next week21:04
torgomaticdeadline-driven development21:04
peluse3 cheers for technical debt21:04
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notmynameyeah, I wonder if the concept of shorter cycles would go over with the rest of the world21:05
notmynameoh well...21:05
torgomatichip hip... segmentation fault21:05
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mattoliveraulol, is there something in the water over in the US today, you all seem extra sarcastic :P21:05
notmynamelooking at what we've got left and what we want our collective name on for the release, I've put together a list of priorities for this week and next21:05
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notmynameI want to go through that list today21:06
notmyname#topic patch 22670721:06
*** openstack changes topic to "patch 226707 (Meeting topic: swift)"21:06
notmynamethis patch has a little history21:06
notmynameso it was filed as a security bug21:06
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notmynamebut a few hours ago donagh published the patch publicly to gerrit21:07
notmynameso we need to make sure we resolve it quickly and get it in the release21:07
notmynamecschwede has looked at it21:07
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notmynameand it looks like it needs another patch set21:07
cschwede… and will publish a new patchset in the morning, if there is no change inbetween21:07
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notmynamecschwede: thanks21:08
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notmynameI'd like to have another core on it too, so we can land it quickly21:08
notmynamepreferably not someone who is neck-deep in EC work21:08
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acolesi was about to offer21:08
mattoliverauI'll take a look21:08
notmynamethanks mattoliverau21:08
notmynameacoles: heh21:08
pelusehey mattoliverau you still have to look at patch 211338 also :)21:08
notmynameyeah, mattoliverau has several things :-)21:09
acolesi am a little familar with it21:09
notmynameso between mattoliverau and cschwede, get it reviewed and landed asap21:09
cschwedeacoles: mattoliverau: that would be great, because we’ll be online in a few hours again ;)21:09
mattoliverauyeah, I'll look at all the things!21:09
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pelusego mattoliverau!21:09
acolescschwede: is it really just a few hours ;)21:09
notmyname#topic patch 22279921:09
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*** openstack changes topic to "patch 222799 (Meeting topic: swift)"21:10
notmynamethis patch has to do with some ring stuff. which is hairy21:10
notmynameclayg: is looking at this. with (I think) torgomatic and maybe timburke21:10
notmynameclayg: what do you need on this? where do you need help? what's the high-level summary?21:10
notmynameand is it going to require another patch for the duplicate parts to land next week too?21:11
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claygnotmyname: so i'm not really looking at that patch anymore21:11
notmynameheh, ok21:12
notmynamenew plan!21:12
notmynamewhat is it?21:12
claygnotmyname: I *thought* that if we just validated against it we'd be fine since it probably only comes up if your ring topology is stupid21:12
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claygbut it turns out the stupidity of your topology is fairly wide and I'd rather just not do that anymore21:12
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claygso I'm pretty sure I'm going to add some specific fixes for that particular bad and then add the validate21:13
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claygI'm trying *not* to get caught in the ever elusive general solution which has tempted so many of our brave soldiers21:13
cschwedeclayg: so that means you’re still working on it? or is it ready for review?21:14
notmynamecschwede: I think it might mean we don't care about that particular patch21:14
claygbut it's really hard!  when you see the parts are just not *quite* right it's very tempting to add a sort or check a tier and look and a weight and tweak tweak tweak21:14
cschwedenotmyname: k21:14
pelusecschwede: I speak clayg, let me help.. "no, I'm not"21:14
claygcschwede: I'll *care* about it - in that it'll be the first in a series of a chain of 2 or 3 patches21:15
clayg1) blow if if we do something stupid21:15
clayg2) don't do something stupid21:15
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clayg3) do something smart21:15
MooingLemurI don't think it's as simple as "bad" topology.  At this very moment I can't seem to get a 4-device (two host) three replica ring of equal weights not to end up with duplicate replica assingments.21:15
clayg3 is optional21:15
claygMooingLemur: quite right sir!21:15
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clayghince 1) has been deamed not sufficient!21:15
claygbut maybe nessecary21:15
notmynamegot it21:16
notmynameso patch 222799 should still be reviewed, but there will be at least one more after it21:16
claygnotmyname: yeah - but i'm going to WIP it because i'm finding some more tests with stupid rings that I want to fix in the first batch21:16
claygbasically once we add this check I want every test to be solvalbe - i've found a few that don't call validate and hence weren't currently blowing up even after adding the check21:17
notmynameso regardless of it being WIP, we need some other cores (and non-cores) to keep up with it to be ready to review asap21:17
notmynameany volunteers?21:17
notmynamenormally for ring stuff I'd say torgomatic and cschwede21:17
claygcschwede: thanks!  torgomatic is probably on the hook too :P21:17
notmynamecschwede: thanks21:17
claygtorgomatic: don't try to back away now21:17
claygnotmyname: he said "I'm really curious to see what you come up with"21:18
claygnotmyname: but it sure sounded like he said "good fucking luck smartass"21:18
notmynameclayg: that pretty much means he has to co author it, right? ;-)21:18
claygnotmyname: only if he wants to keep me from doing something horribly stupid21:18
notmynameok, we've got that patch triaged21:18
notmynamenow the next hairy one21:18
notmyname#topic path 21527621:19
*** openstack changes topic to "path 215276 (Meeting topic: swift)"21:19
claygnotmyname: it's not so bad - I think we can get in a world of better way shortly21:19
notmynameacoles: this is yours21:19
notmynameit's WIP and you and clayg have been beating on it for a while21:19
acolesso this about being able to get an object that has missing durables21:19
notmynameoptimistic gets?21:19
acolesyes its WIP but its getting close21:19
claygnotmyname: acoles is a real champ - he's making tons of progress - peluse and I owe him much appreciation!21:19
acolesyes optimistic gets21:19
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peluseand beer21:19
acolesthe optimistic part is simple21:19
* peluse is optimistic21:20
claygpeluse: i'll take some beer!  or saki or w/e we can find21:20
acolesbut being smart about what to do when it doesn't work out is harder21:20
* acoles consumes anything in a glass21:20
peluseoh yeah... so acoles are you ready for more eyes on it or do you need a bit more time?21:20
claygacoles: i threw in one more random idea that seems like it might be good in the last comment21:20
claygacoles: it's something torgomatic and I have been kicking around21:20
mattoliverauthere is beer in vending machines in Japan, so finding beer should be easy ;)21:20
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acolespeluse: yes eyes would be good, as long as you're ok with things changing after you thought they were great already!21:21
acolesclayg: ok. thanks21:21
pelusestory of my life!21:21
acolespeluse: heh21:21
notmynameok, so peluse will be looking at this with acoles21:21
pelusefor sure21:21
notmynameclayg: you're doing ring stuff instead of this, right?21:21
peluseI heard "both" like bo Jackson type shit21:22
notmynamekota_: could you take some time to look at this patch and help out where possible?21:22
claygnotmyname: indeed I am - but I feel very guilty about it!  (and the 100 other things that I would love to do)21:22
* clayg is such a poser21:22
claygkota_: !!!21:22
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acolesturns out that i got the alt-frags thing that peluse started working on for free with 2152621:22
notmynameclayg: it's good you're looking at the ring stuff21:22
claygnotmyname: kota_ has his *own* awesome patches that need review - minwoo too21:22
notmynamekota_: thanks21:23
peluseFREE!  Wheeeeee!21:23
kota_patch 18673521:23
claygmattoliverau: acctually it may be more helpful to t... oh shit - you already +2'd those :\21:23
notmynamehang on that's next :-)21:23
pelusewhat was the middle thing?21:23
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claygwhich middle?21:23
notmyname#topic patch 18673521:23
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pelusenever saw fish called wanda huh?21:23
notmynamethis is kota's patch to fix the possible missing container updates21:24
notmynamemattoliverau has already been looking at this21:24
notmynameI had just started before the meeting, so I'll take it too21:24
kota_yeah, that's one I am working.21:24
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acolesohyeah thats important21:24
claygoh yeah that was it - mattoliverau saw some better to grab21:25
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notmynamekota_: is there anything you need on this one? I see that mattoliverau has some suggestions for the next patch set21:25
kota_I think, what I have to do is fixisng according matt's comment.21:25
kota_that's all for this one, maybe?21:25
notmynameok, great21:25
notmynamewe'll get it reviewed as soon as you get the new patch set up21:26
notmyname#topic patch 21133821:26
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kota_ok, I'll push it after this meeting..21:26
peluseso kota looked at this as did mattoliverau and clayg added some rockin updates.  I think its ready for review although there's a small grammar thingy in the commit message21:26
notmynamepeluse: this one is yours. same questions21:26
peluseanswers before you asked.... ^21:26
notmynamecommit message grammar is a nit21:26
peluseyeah that's why I left it21:26
notmynamewho cares unless there is another patch set21:26
notmynameso kota_ and mattoliverau are on this patch as reviewers?21:27
peluseif mattoliverauand kota can give it a possible final once over its done21:27
claygnotmyname: idk, i like commit message grammer to be correct :\21:27
notmynameclayg: you of all people?! ;-)21:27
claygis there a nit on that one - i'm sure me or paul could fix it21:27
peluseclayg: I think you messed up the commit message actually :)21:27
claygnotmyname: no I mean - i just get embarassed when I say something stupid in a commit message :\21:27
peluseI can fix for sure and need to add clayg as author as well21:27
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claygso when someone spots it for me I *prefer* to fix it on my patches - but I almost *never* spot it in others - i read to fast - go stright to intent21:28
peluseI'l do that real quick here, no cod echanges though21:28
notmynameok, fine. there's not a +2 on it already so no real harm21:28
notmynamekota_: are you ok to review this one too?21:28
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notmynamegood news! that's the end of the "Critical" list21:29
notmynamebad news! there's quite a few of them21:29
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notmyname#topic patch 22005921:29
*** openstack changes topic to "patch 220059 (Meeting topic: swift)"21:29
kota_quickly my turn!21:29
notmynamehigh priority, this is kota_'s patch so that bad status codes don't have a quorum of good21:29
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kota_oh, yeah simlar one with previous container update21:30
notmynamekota_: any updates here or is it ready for review?21:30
kota_but this is a part of successful commit.21:30
claygkota_: should this be critical?21:30
kota_might be21:30
claygkota_: I don't really understand the implications - it'd be easier on me if you just told me21:30
kota_and just waiting to be reviewed.21:31
kota_clayg: nice21:31
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kota_the patch cares of the handling of quorum before commits.21:32
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kota_currently the quorum check before commit put might think quorum 4xx as success and will put commit.21:32
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notmynameyeah, probably should be moved up to critical21:33
notmynameacoles: torgomatic: can you take a look at this one for review?21:33
claygnot acoles21:33
acolesyes i can21:33
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notmynametorgomatic: can you review this patch?21:34
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notmynameacoles: torgomatic: thanks21:34
notmyname#topic patch 21172621:34
*** openstack changes topic to "patch 211726 (Meeting topic: swift)"21:34
notmynamethis is a lower priority, difinitely21:34
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notmynamecool new feature21:34
notmynamealready has 1 +2, and I think mattoliverau is looking at it today21:35
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mattoliverauyeah I am21:35
notmynamehowever, if it doesn't land today or tomorrow, I think it probably drops the list21:35
mattoliverauI see a new patchset is up, so I'll probably do that first thing this morning while it's till in my brain21:35
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notmyname#topic patch 17719521:35
acolesmattoliverau: what are you *not* doing today? :)21:35
*** openstack changes topic to "patch 177195 (Meeting topic: swift)"21:35
notmynameanother kota_ patch21:36
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notmynamethis one has a merge conflict on it, and it's set as low priority21:36
kota_oh, yeah21:36
mattoliverauacoles: lol21:36
kota_I'm not working on this for now.21:36
wbhuberkota_: i looked at the patch - it needs a lot of rebasing and some change in the code to prevent decode when there's an invalid EC scheme21:36
wbhuberkota_: on top of the changes introduced by etag buckets, etc. etc.21:37
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notmynamethen at this point, I think we should drop it from the list of liberty patches21:37
notmynameany objections?21:37
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kota_It's ok to drop this, I have to reconsider the way to validate that.21:38
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notmyname#topic patch 19684821:38
*** openstack changes topic to "patch 196848 (Meeting topic: swift)"21:38
notmynameminwoob: this one is yours21:38
notmynameit's also set at low priority. is that correct?21:38
notmynameminwoob: what is it doing, what do you need for it?21:39
acoleskota_: we might be able to add that feature into the new get/etag bucket class in patch 2152621:39
acolespatch 21527621:39
notmynameminwoob: ?21:39
kota_acoles: thanks, I'll take a look at that!21:40
notmynameperhaps he stepped away21:40
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wbhubernotmyname: checking on minwoob....21:40
notmynamecschwede: can you look at minwoob's patch for review?21:40
wbhubernotmyname: IRC stopped working for minwoob21:40
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notmynamewbhuber: do you know the status of the patch?21:40
wbhubernotmyname: a second...21:40
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cschwedenotmyname: i’ll have a look21:41
wbhubernotmyname: minwoob said it's ready for rewview.21:41
claygnotmyname: last I looked it was in pretty good shape21:41
notmynamewbhuber: thanks for the relay :-)21:41
notmynamecschwede: thanks21:41
wbhubernotmyname: "it's an optimization moreso than a make-everything-ok fix21:41
notmynameok, makes sense as low priority then21:41
notmyname#topic etc21:42
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notmynameok, those are that patches that I'm tracking for liberty21:42
notmynamewe've got cores signed up for review on them. thank you21:42
notmynameso what else?21:42
peluseEC perf21:42
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wbhuberpeluse: well done on compiling the results (a living one tho)21:42
notmynamewbhuber: minwoob: ho: your help would be greatly appreciated on these patches too21:42
peluseso I need to update the report out and post and have some discussion.  FYI the 50/50 numbers were all half of reality (my error making the graphs)21:42
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pelusenot sure if everyone saw them but watch IRC later and I'll post the next ver on google doc21:43
notmynamepeluse: cool21:43
pelusethe one concerning thing is the amount of mem used at a storage node - need to dig into that.  it was was higher than I epxecte21:43
jrichliIt would be great to get some feedback on Conditional GETs latest proposal:
peluseother than that I think it suports "yes, Ec is usable and yeah it makes more sense for larger objects but still does pretty well with smaller (4MBish) as well"21:44
acolesjrichli: ack21:44
notmynamepeluse: that's good news :-)21:44
peluseplus I'll run once more test to prove the suggstion on segment size (proxy chunk * n_data is best)21:45
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pelusetorgomatic: if you have any thoughts on how the mime additions to obj setver PUT might dramatically increase mem usage let me know :)21:45
jrichliacole: thx21:45
notmynameas a reminder, any critical bugs on will block a release21:45
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torgomaticpeluse: I can't see it being that much, but what do I know?21:46
pelusetorgomatic: I have no evidence of that BTW, just thinking out loud.  Tomorrow I devise some tests to try and see where the hog is21:46
minwoob_peluse: With the new recommendation on segment size, are we still going with object size < segment size as the threshold for using replication within EC policies?21:46
pelusewhoa, huh?21:46
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claygwait - what's the new recommendation on segment size?21:46
pelusereplication within Ec policies?21:46
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notmynameminwoob_: none of that has been implemented yet21:46
tdasilvapeluse: I don't remember if it stated on the ppt, but is it safe to assume it is using the intel ec library? are there any comparisons between other alg?21:47
peluseclayg: thinking that its proxy chunk size * n_data21:47
claygi think if you sub within/instead that sentence parses better for me21:47
pelusetdasilva: not in this report but there are lots of micro reports on the librariies, they're all very similar21:47
notmynametdasilva! I didn't see you there :-)21:47
minwoobThe plan was to store objects less than a certain size, with replication, rather than EC, even if a client had specified a particular EC scheme.21:48
pelusetdasilva: but yes my testing was using isa-l21:48
notmynametdasilva: isa-l is better. unless you're using amd chips. then it's the same21:48
claygpeluse: wow that's a really specific suggestion - and makes it hard to tweak your proxy_chunk_size - but i guess most folks just eat the default neway21:48
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peluseminwoob: we're a ways from doing something like that automatically21:48
tdasilvapeluse, notmyname: got it21:48
minwoobSo that's what I mean by 'threshold'21:48
peluseminwoob: right now its one or the other21:48
peluseclayg: I think thinking you'd set your Ec segment size based on what proxy chunk is set to and what ratio you choose21:48
notmynametdasilva: I didn't sign you up for any of the patch reviews ;-)21:49
peluseclayg: so all defaults considered if using 10:14 you're better off using 640K segment isntead of 1MB segment (per data)21:49
tdasilvanotmyname: i was planning to look at Tim's SLO one21:49
acolestdasilva gets everything else ;)21:49
tdasilvaunless mattoliverau merges that first21:49
notmynametdasilva: I'm hoping that lands very very soon (as soon as mattoliverau looks at it again)21:50
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peluseclayg: wrt the comment on it beign very specific, keep in mind that 1MB was pulled out of our asses 18 months ago :)21:50
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notmynametdasilva: patch 186735 and patch 211338 are where I'd start. or helping acoles with patch 21527621:50
torgomaticpseudorectal number generation21:50
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acolestorgomatic: LOL21:51
mattoliveraumaybe tdasilva can also look at the cross-reseller COPY thing, he is copy middlewaer man. :P21:51
notmynameoh yeah!21:51
notmynameanything else from anyone this week? any questions on what to work on?21:51
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claygwell and I think we got pretty close to 640 guessing at 1000 - i'm just wondering how much better 640 is than 512 and if an 12:4 would really benifit from approaching backup twoards 1MB21:51
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peluseclayg: see the slides... I tested both.  not a HUGE gain but better21:51
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claygpeluse: great!21:52
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peluseclayg if 12:4 one would think 768 would be only slightly better than 1MB21:53
* tdasilva is sorry for not keeping up with copy middleware...been consumed by swift-on-everything recently21:53
notmynameplease don't hesitate to reach out to me (or anyone) this week if you have questions. ask earlier so we make best use of the time we have left21:53
mattoliverautdasilva: your punishment is reviews! :P21:53
notmynamethanks for coming, and thanks for working on swift21:53
peluserock and rolla!!!21:53
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openstackMeeting ended Wed Sep 23 21:53:47 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)21:53
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notmynameit's going to be a good release, It hink :-)21:53
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tdasilvamattoliverau: heh21:54
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