Thursday, 2015-09-24

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thinrichsHi all00:00
thinrichsTime for the Congress meeting00:00
thinrichs#startmeeting CongressTeamMeeting00:01
openstackMeeting started Thu Sep 24 00:01:02 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is thinrichs. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.00:01
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'congressteammeeting'00:01
thinrichsWho is here today?00:01
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thinrichsI've got 7 agenda items today.00:02
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thinrichsDoes anyone have anything they want to discuss?00:02
alexsyipI’m redoing the handson, but I’ll send an email with that.00:03
thinrichsThat's on my list.00:03
thinrichsOkay, well if something comes up, let me know.00:03
thinrichs#topic Liberty00:04
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thinrichsI did some more manual testing today and found some bugs.00:04
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thinrichsRemember these are on the stable/liberty branch00:04
thinrichsOne of them is especially bad.  Seems the data doesn't get sent properly to the policy engine.00:05
thinrichsI marked it critical.00:05
thinrichsI tried to isolate the bugs at least.00:06
thinrichsBut didn't get around to solving any of them.00:06
thinrichsSee the comments.00:06
thinrichsI assigned a couple of people to them as they seemed a good fit.00:06
thinrichsBut if anyone else can pick one up, assign the bug to yourself.00:06
thinrichsHmmm… but then how do you know if someone has already volunteered.00:07
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thinrichsI'll remove the assignees right now.00:07
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thinrichsOnly sign up if no one else has.00:07
su_zhanghas congress discussion already started?00:07
thinrichssu_zhang: yep.00:08
thinrichsWe're discuss the new bugs I found:00:08
thinrichsQuestions about the bugs?00:08
su_zhanglooking it now00:08
ramineniThinrichs: when is the final freeze ??00:09
thinrichsramineni: let me look00:09
ramineniBy when we can file or resolve bugs for liberty00:10
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thinrichsWe definitely want the bugs fixed ASAP so we can continue testing.00:10
ramineniSure ..ok00:10
thinrichsFinal release is October 15.00:10
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thinrichsWe jumped the gun a little this cycle so that we could continue doing development on the new architecture.00:11
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thinrichsSo the stable/liberty branch will have more commits than we'd like.00:11
ramineniOk :)00:11
thinrichsAnything else?00:11
thinrichs#topic kilo00:12
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thinrichsApparently there was a bug in kilo (the last release) in another project that forced everyone to change their requirements files.00:12
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thinrichsHere's ours.  It's failing tests.00:12
thinrichsI tried some simple fixes but still no luck.00:12
ekaoI can take this one.
openstackLaunchpad bug 1499025 in congress "Datasource action listings for cinder, glance, etc." [Medium,Triaged]00:13
ekaoi’ll assign myself00:13
thinrichsekao: great!00:13
thinrichsCan someone look into the kilo issues?00:13
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thinrichsramineni: I just looked at your comment.  Are you saying we should perhaps bundle those 2 changes together?00:15
ramineniSorry , I couldn't open the bug , is it about Oslo. Lib00:16
thinrichsI don't think we want to open a bug against oslo.00:17
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thinrichsWe just want to figure out how to upgrade our code to work with the new requirements.00:17
ramineniThinrichs : ok..I can have a look at kilo issues00:17
ramineniBut not sure ..  About resolution .. Will give it a try00:18
thinrichsramineni: Thanks!  It may be enough to combine those 2 changes into 1 so the code and requirements are in sync.00:18
thinrichsLet me know what you find and if you want help.00:18
ramineniOk , sure .. Thanks00:19
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thinrichs#topic HOL for Tokyo00:19
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thinrichsalexsyip: have you gotten feedback?00:19
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alexsyipyeah, david from att tried it out.00:19
alexsyipbut he ran into some problems.00:20
alexsyipSo I’m creating a new VM that uses a desktop env.00:20
alexsyipHe tried to run the demo without internet, which didn’t work.00:20
alexsyipAnd he couldn’t talk to horizon from his browser.00:20
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alexsyipAnyway, I’m created desktop env vm that does not require the network between browser and horizon.00:21
alexsyipBut for some reason, devstack doesn’t run right without the Internet.00:21
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alexsyipI haven’t figured out why yet.00:22
thinrichsEven once it's downloaded all the project repos?00:22
ramineniAlexsyip ..did u try with Offline true option00:22
alexsyipYes I did.00:22
alexsyipAfter I set OFFLINE=True, and I ran ./ again, congress still couldn’t talk to some services.00:23
thinrichsCould the other services talk to each other?00:24
thinrichsI'm wondering if its something in how we built the Congress drivers.00:24
alexsyipWhen I tried to use horizon, there were some error messages popping up also.00:24
thinrichsBut congress could talk to at least 1 of the services?00:25
alexsyipI’m not sure.00:26
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thinrichsHere are the core devstack developers.00:28
thinrichsI see gary kotton on there.  He might be good to reach out to.00:28
thinrichsalexsyip: let us know if you need help debugging or testing or both.00:29
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thinrichsWe all want that lab to go well!00:29
alexsyipI think it’s also ok to expect an Internet connection when running the lab.00:29
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thinrichsNext up is some new work from su_zhang on Nova00:30
thinrichs#topic Nova integration00:30
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su_zhangcould we also include our implementation for the demo?00:30
su_zhanghere is the review00:31
thinrichssu_zhang: first explain to everyone what your code does00:31
su_zhangI've already addressed all of the comments00:31
su_zhangBasically, it is a proactive enforcement of resource usage quota at domain level00:32
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su_zhangcurrently nova does not have a quota policy at domain level00:32
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thinrichsThe new functionality that you've added is: before Nova does something it asks Congress if it's okay.00:33
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su_zhangwhile booting up a new VM, we intercept the API call and verify if the remaining quota is sufficient for this boot attempt. If so we let it go, otherwise we will return it.00:35
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thinrichsYou integrated Congress into the pipeline, using paste?00:35
thinrichsHow general-purpose is that?00:35
thinrichsDoes it only work for quota?00:35
su_zhangcongress sits among the execution flow00:35
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su_zhangthis flow can work more than just quota00:36
su_zhangwe currently only checks quota00:36
zhenzansu: one question. If it's a normal user to execute the boot, I read from the code that you will use his token to query congress and nova, I'm not sure if it could all the required info00:36
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su_zhangwe can easily broaden our scope for policy checking00:36
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thinrichssu_zhang: did you see zhenzan's question?00:38
su_zhangyes, it will use the token for authentication00:38
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su_zhangbut it does not need to be an admin token00:39
thinrichszhenzan: good question here.00:39
thinrichsIf Nova uses the requester's token, it may be have sufficient rights within Congress.00:39
thinrichsIf Nova uses an admin token, it will have the correct Congress rights, but then it needs to get the token from somewhere.00:40
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thinrichsI think there are service accounts that one service (like Heat) can use to talk to other services.00:40
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thinrichsThe other thing to think about is how we can generalize the code that is there.00:41
thinrichsIn particular, we probably don't want to write different code for every one of Nova's API calls.00:41
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su_zhangmakes sense00:42
su_zhangI can try to generalize the code00:42
thinrichssu_zhang: if you look into the simulate documentation you'll see something about actions.00:42
zhenzanMy concern is that Congress is normally configured as admin account in datasource drivers. If Nova uses the requester's token which is not admin, and he can still call Congress execution APIs. Is it a security hole?00:42
thinrichsand how you can define the update-sequence as a single action, yet have Congress compute the changes in tables that the action will produce.00:43
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zhenzanor Congress can block it?00:43
thinrichszhenzan: Heat has had to address this problem.00:43
zhenzanok, thanks. I'll take a look00:43
thinrichsWhether it's a security hole or not is unclear.00:43
thinrichsBut I think we want to have end-users have their APIs gated on Congress policies, one way or the other.00:44
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thinrichszhenzan: if you look into Heat and service accounts, could you let us all know what you find?00:44
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zhenzanno problem00:44
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thinrichsNext topic.  15 min left.00:44
alexsyipIn general simluation calls dont need to run actions right?00:44
thinrichsalexsyip: right; but they can if we want them to.00:45
thinrichs#topic Python300:45
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thinrichsWe're supposed to be Python3 compliant in the near term00:45
thinrichsProbably was supposed to happen by Liberty.00:46
thinrichsBut we're not there yet.00:46
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thinrichsThe rationale is that Python2 is officially not supported anymore by the Python community (or that happens soon).00:46
thinrichsveena put some time into that, and Victor Stinner has been helping out recently.00:46
ramineniI suppose only anrlr3 is pending , otherwise congress code is compliant right00:46
thinrichsramineni: I'm unsure.  That would be great if it were the case.00:47
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thinrichsIt would be nice to know how close we are.00:47
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thinrichsAnd to figure out if antlr3 is a problem, and if so what to do about it.00:47
ramineniYes , I looked at the logs , only antlr3 is throwing errors afaik00:47
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thinrichsramineni: great!  I see the latest patches are only concerned with antlr.00:48
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thinrichsI don't remember if we need antlr3 for its runtime, or just for compilation.00:49
alexsyipI think we only need it for compilation.00:49
thinrichsIf it's only necessary for compilation (of the grammar to the Python code that parses datalog) then we could remove it.00:49
thinrichsAnd have some way of automatically fixing the code it generates to make it Python3 compat00:49
thinrichsalexsyip: that'd be nice.00:50
thinrichsSo if anyone wants to work that out, we could make the Python3 tests voting.00:51
thinrichs#topic New architecture00:51
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thinrichspballand: how's the new DSE coming?00:51
pballandI’m made some progres, but have been a bit distracted00:52
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pballandcurrently trying to determine the best way to set up automated tests00:53
thinrichsalexsyip put some together for the high availability work.00:53
pballandI’d love for the tests to work without a message bus, but seems like we’ll need to rely heavily on tempest00:53
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thinrichsI was about to say that it seemed awkward to do it within tempest.00:54
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thinrichsThe Murano team just runs their own tests in the gate.00:54
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thinrichsSo that would be something else to consider.00:54
thinrichsIf tempest makes things difficult.00:54
thinrichs#topic Use cases00:55
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thinrichsshivharis made some good progress on building a VM that includes our use cases.00:55
thinrichsI got him a round of feedback.00:55
thinrichsWhen he asks again, let's help him out.00:56
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thinrichsRunning short on time.00:56
thinrichs#topic Open discussion00:56
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thinrichsekao: you're new to the meeting.00:56
thinrichsMind introducing yourself and saying why you're interested in Congress?00:56
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ekaoCool. Yea my name is Eric Kao. New to Congress. Excited to contribute and help build it out. Looking forward to pushing the vision of declarative management.00:57
ekaoLooking forward to learning a lot from all you guys.00:58
thinrichsekao: Glad to have you.00:58
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thinrichsekao attended the mid-cycle meet-up, so some of you may know him already.00:58
thinrichsThat's all the time for this week.00:59
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thinrichsSorry the agenda was jam-packed.00:59
su_zhangI am sure we talked during the mid-cycle meeting.00:59
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thinrichsI'll hang out in #congress for a few minutes, in case anyone has anything new.01:00
ekaoyup, su_zhang01:00
thinrichsFinal thought: remember to be testing and helping out with the bugs and docs!01:00
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openstackMeeting ended Thu Sep 24 01:00:22 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)01:00
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fifieldtlet me see if I can find the right startmeeting code14:02
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fifieldt#startmeeting ops_tags14:03
openstackMeeting started Thu Sep 24 14:03:13 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is fifieldt. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ops_tags)"14:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ops_tags'14:03
fifieldtok, with luck, the minutes will be sent to the right place, unlike last time14:03
fifieldtroll call14:03
fifieldtanyone here for the ops tags meeting?14:03
jproulxdistracted but nearby...14:03
shamailThe one who said I can't make it, lol.14:03
fifieldtthanks jproulx14:04
fifieldtlooks like we don't have a maish today, oh well14:04
fifieldtOn the agenda is:14:04
fifieldt1. Planning our summit session14:04
fifieldt2. Review of open reviews (,n,z )14:04
fifieldt3. Tag Brainstorming14:04
fifieldtdoes anyone want to manipulate the agenda before we begin?14:04
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fifieldtgoing once ...14:05
fifieldtgoing twice ...14:05
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fifieldtgoing three times ...14:05
fifieldtand, it looks like we're sold on the agenda!14:05
fifieldt#topic Planning out summit session14:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Planning out summit session (Meeting topic: ops_tags)"14:05
fifieldtIf we look at
fifieldtwe have a 40 minute slot on Tuesday at 3:40 - 4:2014:06
fifieldtwhat, do you think we should be doing there?14:06
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shamailIs the intention to be a working session or update session?14:06
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fifieldtworking session, however, given the relative low profile of our group, it might be good to start it with an update14:07
shamailI assume working but wanted to confirm14:07
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fifieldtI guess one of the aims I hope for is that we drag some passers by into doing things with the group on an ongoing basis14:07
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shamailStarting with an update and how this group is building tags that are different from TC would be good14:08
shamailFollowed by tags proposed so far14:08
shamailWhich tags are left open?  I think rally tag is moving to TC right?14:09
fifieldtoh eys, the rally tag is progressing well thanks to the rally team14:09
shamailI'd like to discuss the scale tag (or an alternative form) at the summit14:10
fifieldthere's our list:,n,z14:10
fifieldtsounds nice to me14:10
fifieldtwe could kick start that here, too14:10
shamailOk, I'll throw out an idea when we get to agenda item #314:11
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fifieldtI would like to talk in general about 'maturity', and the various ways we can proxy it14:11
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fifieldtok, thanks14:11
fifieldtso yes, it seems at the summit14:11
shamailfifieldt: +114:11
fifieldt1. intro 2. tags proposed 3. tag work/brainstorming14:11
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fifieldtthat good for our summit session?14:11
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fifieldtwith an aim on increasing participation?14:11
jproulxsoounds like that would well fill 40min14:11
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shamailI think that's good too14:12
fifieldtshamail, you're moderating, is that OK with you?14:12
fifieldtthen I think we can move on to our second agenda topic14:12
fifieldt#topic Review of open reviews (,n,z )14:13
*** openstack changes topic to "Review of open reviews (,n,z ) (Meeting topic: ops_tags)"14:13
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fifieldtso, an easy one first14:13
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fifieldtI went back and did the production-use data for juno14:13
fifieldtthat one's probably good to go, since it's just data14:13
fifieldtno new tag14:13
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shamailI'll go through and review this weekend too14:14
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fifieldtwell, how about a new tag then:14:15
fifieldtit's pretty basic, just go through the list of SDKs that aren't dead, work out which projects they support, and count it up14:15
* shamail is reading14:15
shamailSo just a count of SDKs versus languages etc?14:16
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fifieldtSDKs vs projects, ya14:16
fifieldtpotential uses - approximating maturity - more SDKs supporting a project means it gets more use developing apps, or something14:17
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shamailGot it.  What would be the benefit to the user?14:17
shamailHah, you read my mind14:17
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shamailMakes sense, do you think we could expand to show API version covered too?14:18
shamailOr would that be troublesome?14:18
fifieldtcertainly possible to extend it in a number of ways :) I was just starting simple14:18
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fifieldtactually working out the API support is a bit more complex than the project support, in my experience :)14:19
fifieldtI guess this is only useful in aggregate for now14:19
shamailIt would be a lot more complex.14:20
shamailGood starting point though, as you said, can be expanded later.14:20
jproulxsince we're doing structured data would a list of which SDK these were be usefull?14:20
jproulxfor example so you could filter on projects that were supported by your SDK or choice, or is that too much fo rnow?14:20
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fifieldtthat might be a good extension14:21
jproulxmaybe for round 214:21
fifieldtdo you think we should merge the simple version first, then extend?14:21
fifieldtin followup patches, that is14:21
shamailjproulx: +114:21
jproulxI guess question to fifieldt would it be trivial to add now or would it be significant work? if we have the list why not expose it14:21
fifieldtnot so trivial - some typing and checking for me :)14:22
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jproulxlets leave it for future work tehn.14:22
fifieldtok, well, swiftly looking at another one14:22
fifieldtmedberry did containerizable14:22
fifieldtdescription is done and ready for review14:23
fifieldtthe data doesn't exist yet14:23
fifieldtbut we don't necessarily need it to to get the tag in ...14:23
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fifieldtany thoughts>?14:24
shamailI like this one14:25
jproulxis there any reason a service wouldn't be containerizable though?14:25
shamailThe Kolla team has built 90 images for 5 distributions14:25
fifieldtactually, yes jproulx - some folks found some14:25
shamailBeing able to capture which services has images available would be good14:25
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fifieldtcan you say more shamail? I'm not familiar with that :D14:26
jproulxOK then.14:26
shamailSure.  I don't have much more but I can certainly get more info.14:26
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fifieldtthat might be interesting :)14:26
coolsvapKolla has containerized most core services for centos and ububtu14:27
fifieldtwell, don't want to put you on the spot14:27
shamailWhen asking the PTLs for a liberty update, the Kolla team said they have built about 400 containerized services for OpenStack14:27
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coolsvapwith source and binary both14:27
shamailI assume this is meaning a service is decomposed into multiple containers14:27
fifieldtdid they find any issues do you know coolsvap?14:27
shamailFurthermore they have done wit with Ubuntu, CentOS and 3 more distributions14:27
shamailSo 90 * 5 images14:27
jproulxso does this basicly mean Kolla-ised? else how do we know if some randome site is using it ocntainerized in production14:28
coolsvapshamail, yes14:28
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fifieldtI found this bug:
openstackLaunchpad bug 1226855 in lxc (Ubuntu) "Cannot use open-iscsi inside LXC container" [Wishlist,Confirmed]14:28
coolsvapcurrently most services can be build14:28
fifieldtno iscsi inside containers14:28
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coolsvapwe are working on getting all services functional by liberty14:28
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coolsvapmost services are already functional14:28
fifieldtif everything works flawlessly, then maybe this tag isn't needed14:28
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coolsvapand we can actually create openstack14:29
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fifieldtwere there any major issues coolsvap?14:29
coolsvapdeployment using containers14:29
coolsvapusing kolla14:29
fifieldtlike that iscsi one?14:29
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coolsvapneutron, cinder occassionally fail14:29
fifieldtbut it seems fixable?14:29
coolsvapsometimes due to dependency updates and some issue are still sorted out14:29
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fifieldtok, cool14:29
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shamailcoolsvap: Is it implied that the conatiners are running in privileged mode?  Are we going to test in unpriv too (that might nake the # of services that can run containerized a bit less.14:29
fifieldtah, that might be it, yeah14:30
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fifieldtmedberry's patch has that as a flag14:30
coolsvapshamail, some containers need priv mode14:30
fifieldtapprox 50%, 75% 25%?14:30
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jproulx'privileged' is an optional attribute in the proposed tag BTW14:31
coolsvapfifieldt, i can give you exact update in a while14:31
shamailIs that identified or would that be good data to add to tag? (Requires priv)14:31
fifieldtthat would be great coolsvap14:31
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jproulxprivileged   - optional flag indicating that the service only works within a privileged container14:31
fifieldtcoolsvap,  would you be able to just dump it either on or the ops mailing list - whatever works best for you?14:31
fifieldtthat would be great information to have if you;'ve got it14:32
fifieldtsince we can tell ops of the good work you'14:32
shamailI got some reading to do14:32
coolsvapsure will do14:32
fifieldtbeing doing14:32
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fifieldtok, we;'ve had a good discussion on this one14:32
fifieldtwhat else is on the list?14:32
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fifieldtIt looks like maish just needs to update that one based on the feedback14:32
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fifieldtbut please do add your own feedback if you have not seen it yet14:32
shamailFifeldt: so i was thinking starting with Kolla images makes sense.  Can discuss further at summit.14:33
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fifieldtops:packaged ( ) still has one dissenting view, but no achievable proposal to fix it14:33
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fifieldtI'm just about ready to add the basics for liberty for ops:packaged14:34
fifieldtwould be nice to get the tag description signed off before that :)14:34
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shamailHow does this fit with the packaging discussion at the last ops summit?  Is this alluding to packages created by community or ones that are available already?14:35
fifieldtbasically just for available ones14:35
shamailI apologize again, I got reading to do.  :)14:35
fifieldtjust giving a general state for each project14:35
shamailThat's a good starting point.  I'll review it soon.14:35
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fifieldtok, cheers14:36
fifieldtthat rounds out our list14:36
fifieldtwould anyone like to add anything on any of the open reviews before we move on?14:36
fifieldtgoing once ...14:37
fifieldtgoing twice ...14:37
fifieldtgoing three times ...14:37
fifieldtand ..14:37
fifieldt#topic Tag brainstorming14:37
*** openstack changes topic to "Tag brainstorming (Meeting topic: ops_tags)"14:38
fifieldtshamail, you mentioned ideas!14:38
fifieldtideas are excellent :)14:38
shamailSo I was thinking about the discussion on scale14:38
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shamailI think on the ML (or review maybe) it was deemed hard to capture14:38
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shamailSo I wanted to propose an alternate: top50deployed, top20deloyrd14:38
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shamailUsing data from the user survey, tag services that over 50% of the respondents are using14:39
shamailOr 89%14:39
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shamailThis would give three tiers of adoption data and adds a dimension to giving hints about maturity14:39
fifieldtare we talking about scale here?14:40
shamailThat's was the idea14:40
j_kingdefinition of scale?14:40
shamailNot really scale, more about deployment adoption14:40
j_kingbetter, ty.14:40
fifieldtok, so it's the user survey adoption data, unioned with like # of nodes or something14:40
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shamailStarting point being adoption data14:40
fifieldtwe have the adoption data as a tag already14:40
shamailWe could then discuss enhancements to add scale dimension with nodes etx14:40
fifieldtlet me link14:40
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fifieldtif you look at
jproulxperhaps is we define 'big site' we could get % of big sites using a project?14:41
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shamailMakes sense.14:41
fifieldtbut what is big site :)14:41
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jproulxexactly, talk to large doploymnets wg?14:41
shamailWe could use large deployment teams definitions14:41
fifieldtis it # of nodes, # of TB, # of datacentres, # of users?14:41
shamailThey use # nodes14:42
j_kingamount of network traffic, latency, etc14:42
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j_kingstorage volume, throughput14:42
fifieldtso, two ways we can do this, I guess14:42
fifieldtwe can either come up with some thresholds based on the metrics we just listed14:43
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fifieldtor we can choose some deployments by name that "everyone" agrees are large scale14:43
jproulxI think nodes is a reasonable proxy for most of this in the interest of simplification14:43
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fifieldtjproulx, but I have 256 core nodes :(14:43
shamailI think Large Deploy starts at 1000 nodes today14:44
j_king"nodes" is too abstract. :)14:44
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fifieldt(joking - just pointing out the challenge)14:44
shamailj_king: agree14:44
fifieldtok, so what I'm seeing is we ask LDT for help with this ?14:44
shamailfifieldt: +114:44
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fifieldtseems like a way forward on that one?14:45
jproulxwell I do think we should refer to 'large deployment team' for consistency if at all possible14:45
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shamailOn the adoption topic, I skimmed the existing tag... I guess what I was proposing would be an enhancement14:45
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shamailInstead of just capturing adoption %, we should build tiers 50, 80% so it is simpler to see a collection of services that meet a threshold.14:45
fifieldtenhancements also good :)14:45
fifieldtI think that we can do that in the presentation layer14:46
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shamailIt's possible to build grouping with actual values but I don't know if exact values provide any additional value14:46
fifieldtbut keep the data as a continuum14:46
shamailfifieldt: +114:46
shamailWanted to keep it simple at presentation late yet14:46
fifieldtit kinda leads to my pet topic for today14:46
fifieldtwhich is if we want to make something at a higher layer, collating a bunch of things, to invent a term "maturity"14:47
fifieldtwhat would we collate?14:47
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fifieldtwe have *production usage, * # SDKs, * packaged, * install guide14:47
fifieldtwhat else goes in that bucket of bits we can sum to some magic maturity level?14:47
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shamailHas diverse affiliation tag14:47
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shamailI assume maturity could use both ops and TC tags14:48
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fifieldtopen floor here to include anything :) but we're the guys making the ops tags, so that's where I put more of my focus :)14:48
shamailAre there metrics on bug triage or close average times?14:49
fifieldtthey exist14:49
shamailHow long issues are outstanding14:49
fifieldtI am not sure how useful they are to be honest :(14:49
fifieldtsome projects leave bugs open for a looonnnggg time :)14:49
jproulxto me 'mature' also implies a lower change velocity and something about live upgradability...not sure we capture either (upgrades especially important not so sure about change rate)14:49
fifieldtworth investigating though14:49
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fifieldtupgradabilkity is an interesting one14:50
fifieldtI put a call on the ML to see about that recently14:51
shamailjproulx: rolling upgrade support could be tracked by whether projects have adopted things like versioned objects and RPC messaging14:51
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fifieldtmedberry signed up, but I think he might need prodding14:51
jproulxshamail +114:51
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fifieldtthis is true14:51
fifieldtbut what about "my database took 30 hours to run the migrations"14:51
j_king'mature' also means, to me, that if you put "scalable" on the tin then there are numbers to go along with it.14:52
j_kingdo any operators share their telemetry or metrics?14:52
fifieldtso like rax has 100-600 hosts per cell in nova14:52
jproulxfifieldt is my database usable for the 30hr it's migrating?  if it's because it's doing lazy updates I don't care if it's off line I care very much14:52
j_kingwe've been finding interesting behaviours of certain services we can only find "at scale"14:53
shamailj_king: none that I am aware of.. It would be interesting to have a data set to build a predictive model.14:53
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j_kingrace conditions and such14:53
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shamailjproulx: +1 and this is where being able to leverage an older scheme comes handy for services.14:53
fifieldtI agree it would be nice to have but, we spend about an hour talking about a scalability tag last ops meetup and came to the conclusion to have a tag that sums it up14:54
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fifieldt"The end conclusion was that whether a service scales or not is extremely complex information and has an associated decision making process that means it isn't possible to condense into a tag or even a few tags. The only real way to do this is to provide information about example deployments (eg rax, cern) "14:54
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fifieldtso we can't talk about scalability directly as a single tag14:54
fifieldtwe can only infer it from some other things14:54
fifieldtupgradability on the other hand is simpler to do14:54
shamailyep and factors into the maturity umbrella14:55
j_kingfifieldt: agreed. it'd be nice to have some ballpark figures for various services.14:55
j_kinggiven their wide range of configurations it's impossible of course. :)14:55
fifieldtaye :)14:55
shamailI think building as much information into maturity is a good starting point.  If/when we solve the scalability tag challenge, it would be a nice addition to maturity.14:55
jproulxI think large deployment utilization is best proxy we can get for scales at this time14:55
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fifieldtanyway, aside from scale and upgradability14:56
shamailSounds like an action item before the summit. :)14:56
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fifieldtanything else you can think of that is maturity?14:56
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shamailSomeone needs to talk to LDT14:56
fifieldtanyone want to sign up for that?14:57
j_kinganyone notice that the maintenance ML almost always reports build failures for stable packages?14:57
* fifieldt does :|14:57
fifieldtwe have 3 minutes left in this meeting14:57
fifieldtclosing ideas? takeaway actions?14:57
shamaildiverse-affiliation, branching14:57
j_kingNo build failures in X days!14:57
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shamailI'll think about additional ops tags for maturity14:58
shamailI'll take the action item14:58
fifieldt#action shamail to think14:58
shamailTalk to LDT14:58
fifieldt#action shamail to talk to LDT14:58
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fifieldtwell, thank you all very much14:59
fifieldtI guess we'll see you on the mailing list14:59
j_kingthank you. :)14:59
fifieldtpost lots before the summit14:59
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fifieldttell your friends about us :)14:59
shamail😬 Fifeldt. Thanks for the reminder, sometimes I forget to think and go into streaming mode.14:59
fifieldtand keep cool!14:59
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"14:59
openstackMeeting ended Thu Sep 24 14:59:39 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)14:59
openstackMinutes (text):
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shamailTake care all!15:00
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gordc#startmeeting ceilometer15:01
openstackMeeting started Thu Sep 24 15:01:07 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is gordc. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer'15:01
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gordclet's start15:02
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gordc#topic liberty rc1 final countdown15:03
*** openstack changes topic to "liberty rc1 final countdown (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:03
gordclast few minutes of rc1.15:03
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gordchere's what we've commited for rc1
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gordcif anyone has any issues they've noticed in last few hours, please let me know now.15:03
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gordcif not, a huge thanks to everyone for testing.15:04
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gordci'll tag rc1 after meeting15:04
ildikov\o/ :)15:04
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gordcllu-laptop: the only real item i've tracked is that the integration tests are spewing notimplemetederrors because of gnocchi15:05
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gordci don't know if you have a fix for this... i'm worried notimplementederrors are hiding real errors...15:06
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silehtgordc, I proposed to just hide it, this is the only driver that doesn't use events15:07
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llu-laptopgordc: do you mean the separate sample/event in the dipatcher?15:07
gordcsileht: yeah. i think that might be the easier fix.15:07
gordcllu-laptop: right15:07
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llu-laptopcurrently I don't have one. But i can try to cook one tommorrow if needed15:08
gordcsileht: maybe let's do a quick patch to just pass events for now... and we can develop a proper solutoin in Mitaka15:08
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silehtI have restored my fix:
gordcllu-laptop: no rush. we can think about it bit more... we really don't have a complete story on how to work gnocchi with events right now15:08
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gordcsileht: cool cool. last item in.15:09
gordcthanks folks.15:10
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gordc#topic recurring: ceilometerclient release?15:10
*** openstack changes topic to "recurring: ceilometerclient release? (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:10
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gordcanything important? we just had a single bug fix... i assume it's not super important15:11
gordci take silence as i'm right.15:11
gordc#topic recurring: Gnocchi status15:11
*** openstack changes topic to "recurring: Gnocchi status (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:11
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gordcsileht: jd__? anything interesting?15:12
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silehtI think gnocchiclient is ready for a first release15:12
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jd__will probably do that tomorrow15:12
gordcsileht: nice. can't wait to remove temp code from ceilometer :)15:13
jd__other than that, nothing exciting I'm still waiting for someone to review my async metric deletion patch15:13
gordcjd__: ack15:13
gordcthe next topic is slightly related.15:13
gordc#topic ceilometer mentoring15:14
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gordcso we have a person who's interested in contributing to Ceilometer via OPW.15:14
gordcthey're interest appears to be in Gnocchi.15:14
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jd__I talked with vkmc yesterday and I had the impression it was not the case yet :)15:14
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jd__but good news if that's the case15:15
gordcjd__: i didn't ask exactly what part but someone (i assume as OPW candidate) asked about gnocchi specifically.15:15
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gordcif anyone has interest in volunteering please step up.15:15
jd__if it's about Gnocchi I'll be15:16
vkmchi all, we are carrying a list of applicants/mentors here
gordcjd__: cool! i'll be happy to help out as well if it requires too much of your time15:16
gordcvkmc: thanks! we'll probably aim to fill it out next week?15:17
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nadyajd__: ask her about Influx :) maybe we may apply new blood there15:17
jd__nadya: :)15:17
vkmcgordc, thanks, sounds good15:17
ildikovhmm, we have quite a few names with Ceilometer :)15:17
gordcildikov: nice.15:18
gordci guess we can brainstorm about potential work items and add it to etherpad when ready15:18
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gordcnadya: want to create an etherpad to brainstorm on?15:18
ildikovvkmc: is it one person per project?15:19
nadyagordc: yep! now? :)15:19
gordcnadya: as you like15:19
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nadyawe will put some ideas here
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gordcnadya: thanks!15:21
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gordclet's move on i guess.15:22
gordc#topic ceilometer operators survey15:22
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nijaba_people can test out the survey there15:23
gordcnijaba_: beat me to it15:23
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nijaba_comments are very welcome15:23
nijaba_but other than future comment, I think we are ready15:23
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gordcnijaba_: i'm ok with how it is15:24
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gordcnijaba_: will you be passing it on to anyone(group) in particular?15:24
ildikovnice one!15:24
gordcright now i'm intending to pass it to product wg and jasonamyers15:25
nijaba_gordc: I think the operator group is our first target15:25
nadyanijaba_: is there any limit about configuration?15:25
gordcnijaba_: sure. would you like me to send the email?15:25
nijaba_but I will make sure this is relayed as widely as possible15:25
gordcto operators ML15:25
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nadyanijaba_: I mean, may we add more questions15:25
nijaba_gordc: I'll prepare an email for you if you want15:26
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nijaba_nadya: sure, we can add more quetions15:26
nijaba_but we need to not make the survey too long15:26
gordcnijaba_: as you like. just wondering how we'd divide so we dont' send to same places.15:26
nadyanijaba_: I would add something about events15:26
nijaba_gordc: you are more legitimate than me for cross group disucssion, so I can prep an email that you will shoot15:27
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gordcnijaba_: will do.15:27
nijaba_nadya: sounds great.  Feel like adding your proposed question to the etherpad?15:27
nadyanijaba_: and alarms... Maybe "what additional features do you use: 1. events 2. alarms"15:27
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nadyaawesome, thank you, folks!15:28
gordcdid you need time to think about it more? we can target next week to announce if you need time.15:28
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nijaba_ok, so once nadya as added her question, I'll send an email that gordon can spread within openstack15:28
nijaba_and we all can tweet and whatever from this15:28
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gordcnijaba_: sounds like a plan. thanks for the help.15:29
nijaba_my pleasure15:29
gordcnadya: just let us know when you're ready with questions.15:29
nadyagordc: yep, start doing now...15:30
gordcnadya: kk15:30
gordc#topic open discussion15:30
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gordcfinal countdown.15:32
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gordccool. short meeting. thanks again everyone for the testing/fixing.15:32
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openstackMeeting ended Thu Sep 24 15:33:05 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:33
openstackMinutes (text):
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janonymousclarissa_ : are you using some type of api like amazon..15:57
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sridhar_ramgood morning tackers!16:01
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sridhar_ramlets start...16:02
sridhar_ram#startmeeting tacker16:02
openstackMeeting started Thu Sep 24 16:02:21 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is sridhar_ram. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:02
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tacker'16:02
sridhar_ram#chair bobh16:02
openstackCurrent chairs: bobh sridhar_ram16:02
sridhar_ram#topic Roll Call16:02
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sridhar_ramplease enter your name16:03
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* sridhar_ram trying something new like other meeting :)16:03
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sridhar_ram#topic Announcement16:04
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sridhar_ramMitaka OpenStack Summit - just a month away16:05
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sridhar_ramStarted this etherpad to plan for our summit events ...16:05
sridhar_ramPlease enter your name if you are planning to be there in Tokyo16:06
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sridhar_ramWe can work on topics of interest to discuss in next few weeks to prepare for a productive tacker design summit16:06
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sripriyasridhar_ram: did we get a slot in design summit?16:08
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sridhar_ramsripriya: no, only governance projects gets official slots16:08
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sripriyasridhar_ram: ok16:08
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sridhar_ramwe got plan something adhoc among ourselves .. I'll start a doodle poll to pick a timeslot to chose and meet16:09
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sripriyasridhar_ram: sounds good16:09
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sridhar_rammeanwhile, as mentioned in the etherpad, we *might* also get a BoF session on Tuesday 12:0516:10
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sridhar_ramany other general news / heads up related to tacker ?16:10
sridhar_rambtw, here is the Agenda :) #link
sridhar_ram.. for today's meeting16:11
sridhar_ram#topic Liberty Release Status16:11
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sridhar_rambobh: tbh: do you want to give a quick update on health-monitoring ?16:12
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bobhsridhar_ram: I pushed the framework last night - it works as a complete replacement of the existing ping mechanism and also will translate existing templates that use ping into the new driver format16:13
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* sridhar_ram likes the rhyming irc handles for this tacker health-monitor subteam :)16:13
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bobhalso fixed the problem with monitoring hanging after a respawn - the thread was waiting on a lock it already had16:13
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bobhPlease review and provide feedback - I'm sure there are optimizations that need to be made16:14
sridhar_rambobh: cool, I was suspecting a run-away lock as well16:14
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bobhsridhar_ram: and deploying a new VNF while the monitor was locked would lock up the whole server16:14
sridhar_rambobh: I see, that's nasty16:15
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bobhlooking forward to all comments - I'm sure I have a lot to learn :-)16:15
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sridhar_rambobh: I'm sure we will have a productive review cycle...!16:16
sridhar_ramteam - please help out16:16
tbhI am updating docs16:16
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tbhAnd will modify http ping driver to test16:16
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sridhar_ramtbh: http-ping is important - as it will validate the new loadable health-mon framework16:17
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sridhar_ramin fact I was thinking if we need to leave a sample_health_mon driver that would .. say send event back to main tacker server and have it react to it16:18
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tbhsridhar_ram: yeah I am syncing with ping driver16:18
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sridhar_rambtw, I realized currently the only valid action we have is "respawn"16:19
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bobhsridhar_ram: There is also a "log_and_kill"16:19
sridhar_ramhow easy it is to add a "log" action ?16:19
bobhsridhar_ram: Though if it's already dead not sure why we need to kill it...16:20
sridhar_rambobh: that's cool, why kill ?16:20
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bobhsridhar_ram: It was there already - I just left it in place :-)16:20
sridhar_rambobh: I see :)16:20
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bobhsridhar_ram: Would be nice to add a heat stack action-check / stack-update16:21
bobhsridhar_ram: that adds some additional complexity and relies on Kilo heat16:21
sridhar_ramI'm thinking bit generic where a health-mon driver captures a non-catastrophic event16:21
bobhsridhar_ram: That's easy to add16:21
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bobhsridhar_ram: I'll consider that the first comment16:22
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s3wongfor some reason, my xchat client on mac couldn't connect to freenode16:22
s3wongso I am now on webclient...16:22
sridhar_rambobh: there you go.. you got the first comment already .. without looking at the code :)16:22
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sridhar_rams3wong: hi there16:22
bobhsridhar_ram: pretty impressive16:23
* sridhar_ram in the clouds ..16:23
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sridhar_ramtbh: bobh: are you planning some unit testcase as well ?16:24
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s3wongseems like freenode is having some problem (just dropped a bunch of people apparently)16:24
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sridhar_rams3wong: yep16:25
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bobhsridhar_ram: I'd like to add at least a few - I'll take a look at the test unit framework16:25
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sridhar_rambobh: sure, look at the MANO api for guidance..16:25
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bobhsridhar_ram: will do16:25
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sripriyabobh: o/ i can help16:26
bobhsridhar_ram: Thanks!16:26
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bobhsripriya: sorry - thanks!16:26
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sridhar_ramlets move on...16:26
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sridhar_ram#topic Liberty Deadlines16:27
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sridhar_ramjust a quick assessment of the where we are ...16:28
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sridhar_ramwe were shooting for 9/25 as the date to shoot for as the target..16:28
sridhar_ramI think we have most of things in .. atleast in the review queue. so I'm happy16:29
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sridhar_ramobviously we need some more time to finish the reviews before we can merge16:29
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sridhar_ramLets shoot for next Friday to land most of the items ...16:30
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sripriya+1 again16:31
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sridhar_ramwe also need a solid bug fix cycle / spring before we can pull a stable/liberty branch16:32
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sridhar_ramwe can plan a 2-week Oct 4 - 16 bug sprint and pull the stable/liberty at the end of it...16:33
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sridhar_ramtoo late ? just enough ?16:34
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bobhsounds good to me16:34
vishwanathjagree with bobh16:35
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sridhar_ramack back .. lets go w/ that then16:35
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sridhar_ramI don't see prashantD here16:35
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sridhar_ramhe is still working thru' the auto-scaling spec and related investigations..16:36
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sridhar_ramit is unlikely that would land in Liberty .. we need to move to mitaka16:36
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sridhar_ramI'll work w/ prashantD to re-propose the auto-scaling spec for Mitaka and continue the efforts in the master post stable/liberty16:37
sridhar_rammeanwhile I'm looking for s3wong to finish the MANO api review ...16:38
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s3wongsridhar_ram: yes, should happen around tomorrow16:38
sridhar_ramwe need to land that first / early so that bobh can absorb the changes early enough16:38
sridhar_rams3wong: thanks!16:38
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sridhar_ramany other questions on general upcoming deadlines / milestones ?16:39
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sridhar_ram#topic Bug Sprint16:39
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sridhar_ramI would request an all-hands on deck bug sprint over next 2 - 3 weeks...16:40
sridhar_ramhere is the list of unassigned bugs..16:40
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* sridhar_ram quickly creating a bitly as the url is huge16:40
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sridhar_ramI'm planning to join the bug sprint as well and squash as many of them as possible :)16:41
shrinathsureshHello Sridhar16:42
bobhsripriya: there might be some overlap in the "create fails" bugs16:42
shrinathsuresham working on #148918916:42
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shrinathsureshalmost in completion stage..16:42
sripriyasridhar_ram: does this include RFE bugs?16:42
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sridhar_ramshrinathsuresh: hi, sounds good... keep the fixed coming!16:43
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sridhar_rambobh: agree, the root cause might be the same16:43
sripriyabobh: let me take a look at them16:43
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sridhar_ramsripriya: no, we should focus mostly on real functional bugs instance of enhancements16:44
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sripriyasridhar_ram: ok16:44
sridhar_rambtw - should we announce a Bug Squasher MVP award  .. to be given in the summit ? :)16:44
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sridhar_ramlets move on.. while the team thinks abt it16:45
sridhar_ram#topic Documentation16:45
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sridhar_ramI think we will have some decent devrefs at the end of this release ...16:46
vishwanathjI will add some devrefs16:46
sridhar_rama bit more official level docs is something we can shoot for the next release16:46
sridhar_ramvishwanathj: sounds good..16:46
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sridhar_rammeanwhile any ideas how can we bring the features like health-mon and parameterization .. to our user community16:47
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sridhar_ramshould we have some stop gap wiki pages - based on devrefs ?16:47
sripriyasridhar_ram: agree, i had already thought about that16:48
bobhsripriya: Probably some example templates that show different options and configurations would help16:48
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bobhsridhar_ram: Now I've made the same mistake both ways16:48
sridhar_ramsripriya: perhaps there is a .rst to html converter ?16:48
vishwanathjper sripriya and santosh suggestion, I plan to add some example vnfd templates and param value files to devstack/samples directory for the parametirazation feature16:49
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sridhar_ramvishwanathj: cool, that would help16:49
sripriyasridhar_ram: i need to dig in a bit on that, i can get back to you16:49
sridhar_rambobh: agree, we haven't focused on documenting the tacker.conf much16:50
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sridhar_ramsripriya: thanks!16:50
bobhvishwanathj: exactly what I was thinking16:50
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sridhar_ramI can take up documenting tacker.conf16:50
sridhar_ram#action sridhar_ram to document tacker.conf in tacker wiki16:51
bobhsridhar_ram: Should we look at removing servicevm references from tacker.conf?16:51
sridhar_ram#action vishwanathj to add example vnfd templates and param value files to devstack/samples directory for the parametirazation feature16:51
sripriyasridhar_ram: as part of bug squashing sprint, we can take up some more cleaning up of tacker ?16:51
sridhar_ramsripriya: sure, that's fair to take it up..16:52
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sridhar_ramtbh_: btw, if your health-mon tasks are done .. please join the bug sprint!16:52
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* sridhar_ram notes 8 mins left16:53
* sridhar_ram .. 7 mins16:53
sridhar_ramalso anyone joining tacker .. this is a nice away to start!16:53
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sripriyasridhar_ram: i will take up some tacker housekeeping tasks16:53
sridhar_ramsripriya: thanks!16:54
sridhar_ram#topic Gate Testing16:54
*** openstack changes topic to "Gate Testing (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:54
bobhsridhar_ram: I have a backlog of bugs that I'll clean up16:54
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sridhar_rambobh: much appreciate your efforts!16:54
* sripriya looking at bobh for the bug squash award :-)16:55
sridhar_ramon gate testing .. we now have a experimental gate job for Tacker16:55
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bobhsridhar_ram: sripriya: Award is a trip to Tokya Disneyland :-)16:55
sridhar_ramsripriya: :)16:55
tbh_sridhar_ram: sure16:55
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sridhar_rambobh: let me think abt sponsoring it !16:56
sridhar_ramback to gate-testing .. the tests run 'tox -e functional'16:56
sridhar_ramdo don't be surprised if you see me adding 'check experimental' in your patchsets..16:57
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sridhar_ramthere are still some kinks .. I'm working w/ the infra team..16:57
sridhar_ramthey are quite helpful16:57
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sridhar_ramany questions on that ?16:57
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sridhar_ram#topic Open Discussion16:58
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:58
sridhar_ramanything else ?16:58
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sridhar_ramalright .. lets wrap!16:58
sridhar_ramthanks all!16:58
bobhbye all16:59
sripriyathanks everyone, bye!16:59
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"16:59
openstackMeeting ended Thu Sep 24 16:59:17 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)16:59
openstackMinutes (text):
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mtreinish#startmeeting qa17:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Sep 24 17:00:35 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is mtreinish. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)"17:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'qa'17:00
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mtreinishhi, who's here today?17:00
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mtreinish^^^ today's agenda17:01
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mtreinishandreaf, sdague, dtroyer, mkoderer, dkranz: around?17:02
mtreinishok, lets get started17:02
mtreinish#topic Summit Prep17:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Summit Prep (Meeting topic: qa)"17:03
mtreinishso with the tokyo summit coming up pretty soon I created the etherpad to brainstorm ideas:17:03
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mtreinishif you've got an idea for a session topic just add it onto the etherpad17:03
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mtreinishwe'll probably take a meeting in a couple of weeks to discuss which sessions we'll have17:04
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mtreinishthat was all I really had on this one :)17:05
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mtreinishdoes anyone have anything to discuss on this topic?17:05
andreafmtreinish: I see I already have a session :D17:05
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mtreinishyes, you do :)17:05
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mtreinishandreaf: it could be worse, oomichi_ already has 2...17:05
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mtreinishok, if there isn't anything else lets move on17:07
mtreinish#topic Specs Reviews17:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs Reviews (Meeting topic: qa)"17:07
mtreinishdoes anyone have an open spec review to discuss?17:07
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mtreinishthere haven't been any changes there in a couple weeks so I doubt there are any17:08
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mtreinish#topic Tempest17:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Tempest (Meeting topic: qa)"17:09
mtreinishok does anyone have anything to discuss on tempest this week?17:09
jordanP :)17:09
jordanPPy 2.617:09
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mtreinishjordanP: sigh...17:09
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jordanPmy point is, we should have been more conservative when dropping 2.617:10
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jordanPJuno is compatible with 2.6, Juno is still supported, so Tempest should be 2.6 compatible17:10
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mtreinishjordanP: we dropped it over a cycle ago17:11
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mtreinishand juno is eol in like a month17:11
jordanPthis is the cost of being branchless, we must be conservative even in master branch17:11
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jordanPsure, but so far the only 2.7 feature we leverage is dict comprehension...17:11
dkranzjordanP: branchless tempest means we run against older clouds I thought17:11
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mtreinishdkranz: right, it's only compat for running against older clouds, no co-installable with older clouds17:12
jordanPyes. I agree this argument was a bit invalid17:12
dkranzjordanP: So why can't you run tempest on a 2.7 node even if cloud is 2.6?17:12
mtreinishyou cant install tempest master on an all in one juno box the python reqs are incompatible17:12
jordanPno. It works17:13
SamD+1 dkranz17:13
jordanPdkranz, because I want to install everything on the same box17:13
jordanPusing devstack17:13
jordanPfor my 3rd party ci17:14
dkranzjordanP: run tempest in a container :)17:14
dwalleckI've started running Tempest in docker just to avoid Python version and similar issues17:14
dkranzI was only half joking17:14
jordanPbut all it takes is a 8 line change to not use dict comprehension17:14
mtreinishdkranz: well my suggestion was leverage the openstack cloud under test to spin up a vm and run tempest from that17:14
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jordanPI don"t want to learn kubernetes and what no :)17:15
mtreinishjordanP: I thought there were more issues on py26 back when we dropped the support17:15
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jordanPwell, with this small patch, testr --list-tests works (I didn"t run a full tempest run)17:16
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jordanPok, this is taking too much time on this meeting. let's move on17:16
mtreinishjordanP: that's part of it too we don't run any tests on py26 anywhere so we can never really know if it really works17:17
mtreinishjordanP: ok :)17:17
mtreinishis there anything else to discuss on tempest this week?17:17
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mtreinishok, then lets move on17:18
mtreinish#topic Devstack17:18
*** openstack changes topic to "Devstack (Meeting topic: qa)"17:18
mtreinishdtroyer, sdague: anything new from the land of devstack this week?17:18
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mtreinishdoes anyone else have anything to discuss on devstack this week?17:20
andreafmtreinish: I've got a devstack review :) it's not critical but it would be nice to have - it's for devstack with the v3 policy file:
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mtreinishok cool, that's probably a good thing to start doing17:21
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mtreinishandreaf: do we have a patch up that uses the v3 policy file anywhere?17:22
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andreafmtreinish: good question17:23
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mtreinishbecause I've seen a bunch of fixes lately for that, but it would be good to test with it somewhere17:24
andreafmtreinish: probably yes but I need to look for it17:24
mtreinishok cool17:24
mtreinishwe can dig into that after the meeting17:24
mtreinishok is there anything else on devstack?17:24
andreafmtreinish: I know the keystone folks are also working on it, but I'll make sure we have one17:24
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mtreinishok, lets move on17:25
mtreinish#topic Grenade17:25
*** openstack changes topic to "Grenade (Meeting topic: qa)"17:25
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mtreinishdoes anyone have anything to discuss about grenade?17:26
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mtreinishheh, I guess not :)17:27
mtreinishthen let's move on17:27
mtreinish#topic OpenStack Health17:28
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Health (Meeting topic: qa)"17:28
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mtreinishandreaf: you put this on the agenda, so I'll let you run with it :)17:28
* andreaf welcomes the new entry :)17:28
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jtrovocool topic :)17:28
andreafmtreinish: heh I thought we could use this space to discuss about current status and important reviews17:28
mtreinishandreaf: ok17:29
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andreafthere is wip on the puppet module to deploy openstack-health17:29
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jtrovowe've been working on getting openstack-health deployed this week and also on some parts of the rest api17:29
andreafthat's to get the repo in17:29
mtreinishalso, for people who haven't seen the new repo openstack-health is the project to try and get an overview dashboard of the state of test runs in the gate (and periodic too)17:29
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jordanPmtreinish, is there a demo somewhere ?17:30
jordanPit's new to me17:30
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andreafjordanP: not yet a running demo I believe17:30
ccarrara_we've also had some progress on puppet-openstack-health, just waiting the repo creation to commit it.17:30
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mtreinishjordanP: not yet, the most right now is some mock pages up in the docs dir:
andreafjordanP: it started during the QA sprint17:31
jordanPis it linked to stackviz ?17:31
jordanPor is it the same thing ?17:31
mtreinishjordanP: there are some wip patches up that let you do things locally, but it needs doc updates to explain how to do that17:31
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mtreinishjordanP: right now they're 2 separate things17:32
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dwalleckSounds interesting17:32
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mtreinishjordanP: although at some point we might integrate stackviz as a view for a single run17:32
andreafjordanP, dwalleck: ^^^ that's a good starting point17:33
jordanPindeed. interesting17:33
andreafjordanP, dwalleck: and #link
andreafjordanP, dwalleck: you're very welcome to contribute!17:33
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mtreinishso just to come back to the status17:34
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mtreinishI've got subunit2sql patches up for review to add db apis needed for the rest side17:34
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mtreinishand wip patches up to openstack-health to use those17:34
dwalleckthanks, I'll have a look17:35
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mtreinishit sounds like timothyb89 and others (I can't remember all the other irc nicks) are working on getting the js frontend to properly talk to the rest api17:35
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mtreinishand the puppet repo to deploy is still waiting on project-config approval17:35
mtreinishoh and jhesketh has patches to work on getting a zuul mysql reporter added so we can leverage that as an additional data source17:36
mtreinishdid I miss anything?17:36
andreafmtreinish: one thing I wanted to ask - but perhaps it's more an openstack-infra question - is where are we going to run it17:36
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mtreinishandreaf: so when I discussed it with jhesketh before we'll likely have to get another server added to infra for the rest api piece17:37
andreafmtreinish: do we need an extra VM somewhere and what's the process to provision it17:37
mtreinishwhich will come with the system-config patch17:37
andreafmtreinish: ok - I'll add that as a todo on the etherpad17:37
mtreinishandreaf: it's pretty simple, but you need someone with infra-root to do the server deploy17:38
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mtreinishthat'll happen right before the system-config patch is merged because they'll need to add the server info into hiera17:38
andreafmtreinish: ok17:38
mtreinishok, is there anything else on this topic?17:39
ccarrara_mtreinish: are you thinking to deploy openstack-health api and frontend separately?17:39
mtreinishccarrara_: I hadn't really thought about it too much, but probably not17:39
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ccarrara_ok, thanks.17:39
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andreafmtreinish: will it be running within the name?17:40
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mtreinishI was just saying because of the expected amount of traffic for the rest api that'll need it's own server17:40
jtrovomtreinish probably it would be great to have the patches of subunit2sql that openstack-health depends on listed somewhere so we can keep a tracking of it17:40
SamDI would think that you would want logical seperation of the API and the UI code base/logic but where deployed shouldn't matter aside from load right??17:40
mtreinishwhether we host the frontend from there or not doesn't really matter17:40
mtreinishandreaf: yes probably17:40
mtreinishjtrovo: all of them are in:17:41
mtreinishI had to make it a giant branch for rebase concerns17:41
mtreinishSamD: right17:41
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andreafmtreinish: one last thing on this topic, is about extending the scope to the periodic tests17:42
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andreafmtreinish: is this a good conversation to have in the openstack-infra meeting? I wanted to move forward on that and not wait for the summit17:42
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mtreinishandreaf: sure I think we can bring it up during the infra meeting17:43
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mtreinishthere is a larger discussion there because there is a seperation of concerns on the DB17:44
mtreinishright now it has value not just for a dashboard but also from a test analysis side17:44
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mtreinishand if we start adding things from outside the gate that potentially gets diluted17:44
mtreinishok, anywat I think we should move on17:45
andreafmtreinish: ok17:45
mtreinish#topic Critical Reviews17:45
andreafmtreinish: that's all I had I think17:45
*** openstack changes topic to "Critical Reviews (Meeting topic: qa)"17:45
mtreinishok, does anyone have any reviews that they'd like to get extra eyes on?17:46
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dwalleck - I want my tests to run on Irix! :D17:46
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mtreinishdwalleck: heh, I can't blame you for that. I miss my indigo cube sometimes17:47
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SamDand my TRS-8017:47
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jordanPdwalleck, thanks for this patch. i remember when you opened this bug in launchpad17:48
jordanPit's good you made it17:48
mtreinishok, are there any other patches this week?17:48
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mtreinishthat's a migration from tempest -> tempest-lib of the idempotent_id decorator stuff17:49
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mtreinishok, if there aren't any other reviews to bring up today lets open the floor17:50
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mtreinish#topic Open Discussion17:51
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: qa)"17:51
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mtreinishdoes anyone have any topics they'd like to discuss which weren't on the agenda?17:51
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mtreinishok, if there isn't anything else I guess we'll end here today17:52
mtreinishthanks everyone17:52
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"17:52
openstackMeeting ended Thu Sep 24 17:52:35 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:52
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daneyon#startmeeting container-networking18:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Sep 24 18:00:07 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is daneyon. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: container-networking)"18:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'container_networking'18:00
daneyonI'll give everyone a minute to review the agenda.18:00
daneyon#topic roll call18:00
*** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: container-networking)"18:00
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daneyonThank you hongbin s3wong gangil1 Tango for attending.18:02
daneyon#topic Discuss discovery changes required for implementing Flannel in Swarm18:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Discuss discovery changes required for implementing Flannel in Swarm (Meeting topic: container-networking)"18:02
daneyonThis topic was discussed over irc yesterday and over the ML last week.18:02
daneyonI just want to make sure everyone understands the issue with discovery for swarm.18:03
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daneyonWould you like me to provide a quick overview of the issue or does everyone understand it?18:03
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gangil1daneyon: I haven't read about it, so would go through it first and then ping you if I have any doubts.18:04
daneyonadrian_otto thanks for joining.18:04
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daneyonadrian_otto we are at topic: Discuss discovery changes required for implementing Flannel in Swarm18:05
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daneyonI wanted to take this time to make sure everyone understands the discovery issue and agree on the solution.18:05
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daneyonas part of this patch, swarm public discovery is removed.18:06
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daneyoninstead swarm will use etcd for bootstrapping a swarm cluster.18:07
TangoIf later we find that we need other method of discovery for something else, would we run into the same situation?18:08
daneyonkeep in mind that flannel required etcd. flannel uses etcd for shared config amount flannel daemon's that run across nodes18:08
daneyonTango that is a good point18:08
daneyonIt seems like consul and etcd are the discovery kings18:09
daneyonI filed a bp to address discovery from a bigger picture18:09
daneyonmake discovery more pluggable, configurable, etc..18:09
Tangothat would be good.18:09
daneyonthat is outside of my current focus of implementing the container network model across all bay types18:10
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TangoI think it's reasonable for now18:10
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daneyonhongbin_ eghobo or adrian_otto do you have any questions or concerns regarding discovery?18:11
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daneyonadrian_otto thx18:12
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daneyoni'll wait 1 minute before moving to our next topic.18:12
daneyonhongbin_ thanks for the feedback.18:12
eghoboI will comment at review, I am still thinking18:12
daneyoneghobo that makes sense. thanks.18:13
daneyon#topic Review Swarm patch18:13
*** openstack changes topic to "Review Swarm patch (Meeting topic: container-networking)"18:13
daneyonI'll take a few minutes to cover the main points of the patch.18:13
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daneyon1. Implements flannel for swarm bay types. We can now have containers run across multiple nodes and they can communicate with one another using flannel's overlay (UDP or VXLAN) network.18:14
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daneyonI have tested this multiple times using native tools18:14
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daneyonDoes anyone have time to test the patch?18:15
daneyonBack to the patch review18:15
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hongbin_I will if I find some time18:16
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eghobodaneyon: but user still can run without flanel?18:16
daneyonI removed swarm public discovery. Instead swarm uses etcd to bootstrap the swarm cluster.18:16
TangoCan you post the link?18:16
daneyonI implemented etcd for swarm.18:16
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daneyoneghobo no, flannel is the default network-driver if one is not specified at the baymodel creation.18:17
eghobohmm, not sure I am agree with it18:17
daneyonw/o flannel docker does not have the ability to communicate across hosts until libnetwork is implemented and you use the native overlay driver or a libnetwork remote driver18:18
eghobomany people run Swarm and Mesos without special network18:18
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daneyonWe will eventually add libnetwork as a magnum network-driver, but libnetwork is only supported in docker experimental.18:18
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eghoboonly Kub is very strict at network side18:18
daneyonswarm patch18:18
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eghobodaneyon: if my nodes can communicate docker/swarm will communicate18:20
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eghoboof course without any isolation18:20
daneyoneghobo before this patch, container within a swarm bay type could not communicate across nodes unless you expose the container port to the host. this is because the swarm bay type was using docker legacy networking (docker bridge).18:21
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TangoSo we are really enhancing current docker networking?18:22
eghoboaha, got what you mean now, thx18:22
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daneyoneghobo swarm containers can not directly communicate with one another unless you do either 1. expose the container port to the host or 2. Use libnetwork overlay or remote driver that supports multi-host.18:22
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adrian_ottodaneyon, I had inline comments with questions. None were answered.18:23
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adrian_ottoI was particularly interested ina ll the repeated code18:23
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daneyonsupporting native (i.e. not exposing ports to hosts) container-to-container communication is part of the Magnum Container Network Model. This is also where Docker Swarm is heading.18:24
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daneyonadrian_otto I submitted my latest patch just before this meeting. I plan to go back and address everyone's review comments.18:25
adrian_ottoalso why did you take out ExecStartPost?18:25
eghobodaneyon: flannel is value add no question, my concerns that Docker folks show Swarm without networking everywhere and user will get different experience with Magnum18:25
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hongbin_We could set different default network_driver per bay type18:25
hongbin_k8s default to flannel, swarm default to something else18:26
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eghobohongbin_: =118:26
TangoIf user develops something on Magnum Swarm cluster and uses the networking capability here, when they bring their containers elsewhere, they may not work18:27
daneyoneghobo libnetwork will be the preferred networking method for Docker Swarm. When it gets out of experimental, we will go through the process of adding the driver. Swarm will be the first bay type. UNless their is issue with the community, libnetwork will be the default net driver for swarm bay types18:27
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adrian_ottoyou should be able to specify —network-driver=none18:27
daneyonhongbin_ beat me to the punch ;-)18:27
adrian_ottoand get the current setup with no networking for swarm if that's what you want18:27
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TangoFair enough. We should write this up in a user guide so it's clear.18:28
hongbin_yes, --network-driver=none make sense I think18:29
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eghobodaneyon: I agree about libnetwork but it's experimental too long from my point of view ;)18:29
eghobowe have user who want service now ;)18:29
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daneyonTango after the cnm gets delivered to all 3 bay types, I will work on the docs18:29
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daneyoneghobo then it comes down to what do we do with magnum? DO we want magnum to be stable or on the bleeding edge? It's my understanding that production ready was a top goal set by adrian_otto18:30
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adrian_ottoI repeated my questions on patch set 4 and voted on the patch again.18:30
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adrian_ottoproduction ready is key18:30
daneyonIf that's not the case, then let's use docker experimental instead and we can add libnetwork.18:30
daneyonadrian_otto thx. I'll def address your comments.18:31
adrian_ottowe can offer optional features that use newer things, but we need to have the basics covered first.18:31
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daneyonadrian_otto each bay type requires a network driver. each bay type has a default network driver of flannel. This can and will change over time.18:32
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daneyonI am +1 for using stable relases of docker and other tools instead of experimental.18:33
eghobodaneyon: does it mean you against --network-driver=none idea?18:33
daneyonusers want to start deploying containerized apps in OS18:33
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daneyonif we provide a low quality service, then users will write off the magnum project.18:33
daneyoneghobo what does network-driver none do?18:34
daneyonif we provide network-driver none to a k8s bay type, the result is a broken bay.18:35
eghoboand Mesos/Swarm users confortable with this model18:35
daneyonk8s will not work using legacy docker bridging.18:35
eghoboit's just for Mesos and Swarm, we must have driver for Kub18:35
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daneyoneghobo if we default to flannel as the net-driver, users can still expose host ports, etc..18:36
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eghobocorrect and I think it's good option for advance user18:37
daneyonswarm is headed in the direction of multi-host networking, so I think we are getting in front of this. I foresee all coe's using multi-host networking.18:38
adrian_ottodaneyon, why do you think that swarm bays are broken without flannel?18:38
daneyonIf the community prefers to have an option for none, then it can be implemented.18:38
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hongbin_adrian_otto: I guess daneyon means k8s bay are broken without flannel18:39
daneyonadrian_otto swarm bays work w/o flannel. Container-to-container communication with our current swarm requires either 1. Expose the container port to the host. or 2. Support a seperate network provider such as flannel, libnetwork, etc..18:40
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adrian_ottoright. you can use docker with -v to expose the container port to the host18:41
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daneyonhongbin_ yes. k8s requires flannel. Future does not currently require a multi-host network provider, but signs indicate that one will be required in the future18:41
adrian_ottothe DEFAULT network driver per bay should be one that does not violate the principle of least surprise18:41
daneyoni can;t comment on mesos b/c i don;t know enough about that bay type yet.18:41
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daneyonadrian_otto correct18:42
adrian_ottoso for now the default for swarm could actually be "none", and the user could enable networking by changing it to "flannel"18:42
adrian_ottothe default on k8s bays, should be "flannel"18:42
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daneyonadrian_otto ok18:42
adrian_ottoand if you think you know what you are doing you could set it to "none" and do something more exotic perhaps18:42
hongbin_I guess the default for mesos is none as well18:42
adrian_ottoit mightbe away to simplify using k8s built-in features18:43
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adrian_ottohongbin_: yes18:43
adrian_ottomy apologies, but I have to depart here in a minute so I can not stay for the end.18:43
daneyonI'll refactor the patch so flannel is not the swarm default18:44
eghoboadrian_otto: kub doesn't have built-in features, we need flannel18:44
adrian_ottoeghobo: that is true today, but that's likely to change18:44
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adrian_ottoI'm not arguing for disabling flannel for k8s bays. that's not the important point18:45
eghobook, it looks like you know than us ;)18:45
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adrian_ottoI'm more interested in providing a close-to-native experience for each COE18:45
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daneyonadrian_otto that makes sense18:45
daneyonI'll update the patch18:45
adrian_ottoand as each COE evolves, we can follow the prevailing direction each heads18:46
daneyonadrian_otto agreed18:46
* adrian_otto waves18:46
adrian_ottocatch you next time18:46
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daneyonso then do we even need to implement flannel for swarm and mesos. I thought the original charter was to provide a native multi-host container networking solution for all bay types.18:47
TangoI think it's a good option to have18:48
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hongbin_I think it is good to have, just not set it as default18:48
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eghobo+1, it's value add18:48
Tangoespecially if libnetwork is heading that way18:48
daneyon#action danehans to look into changing the default network-driver for swarm to none.18:49
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daneyonok, then I think we agree on supporting flannel in swarm, but not using it for the default net driver18:49
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daneyonunless their are questions, lets move on.18:50
daneyonand thanks for the good discussion.18:50
daneyon#topic Review Action Items18:50
*** openstack changes topic to "Review Action Items (Meeting topic: container-networking)"18:50
daneyonACTION: everyone who votes on the kuryr design spec to continue tracking the spec to completion by voting.18:50
daneyonI see everyone voted.18:50
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daneyonthanks again for taking the time to review the kuryr spec and cast your vote.18:50
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daneyonACTION: danehans to continue coordinating with gsagie on a combined kuryr/magnum design summit session.18:51
daneyonI have not discussed this with gsagie18:51
daneyonI will move this one forward.18:51
daneyon#action danehans to continue coordinating with gsagie on a combined kuryr/magnum design summit session.18:51
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daneyon#topic Open Discussion18:51
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: container-networking)"18:51
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daneyonanyone have a topic to discuss?18:51
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daneyonthen I will close out our meeting.18:52
daneyonthanks again for the great discussion18:52
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"18:52
openstackMeeting ended Thu Sep 24 18:52:56 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:52
openstackMinutes (text):
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terrylhowecli meeting today?19:01
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dtroyermeeting overlap19:02
dtroyer#startmeeting OpenStackClient19:02
openstackMeeting started Thu Sep 24 19:02:49 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is dtroyer. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStackClient)"19:02
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstackclient'19:02
dtroyerping: dhellmann, stevemar, briancurtin, terrylhowe, lhcheng, sigmavirus2419:03
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dtroyerI did put together an agenda this morning...19:03
stevemari'm on a call, so i apologize in advance if i don't pay 100% attention19:03
stevemardstanek: ^ maybe you wanted to join this time?19:04
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dtroyerso lets get started19:04
dtroyer#topic Image v219:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Image v2 (Meeting topic: OpenStackClient)"19:04
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dtroyerWe got a chunk of Image v2 work in 1.7.0, there's more in the pipeline now,19:05
stevemarpopular topic these days19:05
dtroyerdo we have an idea of what is still missing?19:05
stevemarmordred: ^19:05
dhellmannyeah, I recommend not doing much with image create until after the summit when we can see what the glance team is going to do there19:05
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dtroyerok, thats actually mostly done for direct upload, the alternate methods are not there yet.19:06
mordredyah. it has PUT19:06
dtroyerso that makes sense to wait19:06
mordreddoes not have tasks19:06
mordredbut I agree on waiting on that19:06
dtroyermordred: do you know if that list of v2 deployments also supports v1 at all?19:06
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mordreddtroyer: I don't have a full catalog of v1 support - but I believe many of them did19:07
dtroyerI'm thinking we might want to make falling back simpler for that specific case19:07
mordreddtroyer: would it be helpful to know that?19:07
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mordredthat's what glanceclient is doing in general these days19:08
mordredso I agree19:08
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dtroyerthis is one reason I never finished v2 create in the first place… we might just use v1 create for now19:08
dtroyerok, yes19:08
dtroyerotherwise, we have a bunch of changes to set in review19:08
dtroyerI think bunting is going to add unset to
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dtroyerI know find_resource() is broken for v2 also, what else?19:10
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dtroyerok, so that's a shorter list than I thought.19:12
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dtroyerI had a question about the 'extra' options in v2 set (—architecture, —os-distro, etc) and think I may have been the one to put those there19:13
dtroyerbut disagree with my former self if so and want to remove them.  objections?19:13
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dhellmannI'm not sure what that means?19:14
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dtroyerthere are options new in v2 set (and my version of create) that weren't in v1, I'd like to remove them as they are really just wrappers around --property19:15
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dtroyeractually, there were in v1, and were added for compat19:16
dtroyerduh, I need to read more before I speak19:16
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dhellmannso we would just want folks to use --property instead of the more specific options?19:17
dtroyerlong-term, yes.  These were for CLI compatibility19:18
dhellmannmakes sense19:18
dtroyerand I think I re-convinced myself to keep them19:18
dtroyerI wish I could blame pain killers for that...19:18
dtroyeranything else about Image to talk about?19:18
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dtroyer#topic SDK integration19:20
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dtroyerterrylhowe has been working with this on and off for a while now, and has a chain of reviews starting at to add Netowrk support using the SDK19:20
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dtroyerThe recent image fun has re-motivated me to look at getting off glanceclient so I've been looking at that too19:21
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terrylhoweit is kind of big.  I’d like to get the keystoneauth stuff merged to the sdk before doing a real sdk integration.  I think that work is very close in the sdk19:21
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dtroyeragreed, but we can start laying the foundation for it and exploring the command-level changes required19:22
terrylhoweI’ve just been stuck on the special project team and had no extra time in the last 2 weeks19:22
dtroyerI generalize the basic include-sdk-as-dependency bits from terrylhowe's work in
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terrylhoweI think if the sdk supported ksa, we could treat the ksc session just as if itwas a ksa one19:23
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dtroyergood to hear19:23
dtroyerbut, here's what I really want to talk about…19:23
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dtroyerwe've said for a while that adding SDK would be 2.019:24
dtroyerand that we don't want to do a 'big switch' to do that19:24
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dtroyerbut I'm a little concerned about needing to make changes that would also require a major version bump and that we'd land at 5.0 sooner than later19:25
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dtroyer(maybe this is misplaced concern?)19:25
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dtroyerand the recent ML thread about semver and dependencies made me think about it more.19:25
dtroyerthanks dhellmann ;)19:25
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dhellmannI wouldn't worry too much about that19:25
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dhellmannI'm not actually certain that adding the sdk or replacing the client libs with the sdk represents an API change in OSC that requires a major bump19:26
dtroyerok.  user expectations for a 2.0 release that has no user-visible changes (other than installing openstacksdk) seems odd19:26
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dtroyerthat's one of what I was thinking about since the thread19:27
dhellmannright, as long as the supported API of OSC is not changing it should be fine19:27
dhellmannthe only time I expect to be able to install something without updating dependencies is for a patch release19:27
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dtroyerand I think from an OSC user perspective that is also the case19:28
dtroyerI think earlier we were concerned about possible behavioural changes with the changing of the API client implementation19:28
dtroyergood testing should handle that19:29
* stevemar lurks back in and reads scroll up19:29
dtroyerbut our testing is spotty19:29
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dtroyerstevemar: I know you have opinions here, speak up when you've caught up19:31
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stevemardtroyer: i know i said recently that including the sdk should be a bump to 2.0, but i guess i don't see an issue with releasing 1.8.0 with sdk included19:33
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dtroyerok, I think we're on the same page now19:33
dtroyerthe next question though, is the SDK team ready to have us include it as a production dependency?19:34
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dtroyerI've told them before that we wanted to wait until they release 1.0 to do that19:34
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stevemarthey 1.0.0'ed right?19:34
dtroyerbut I think we can do this incrementally and work in the ksa bits as they release them19:34
dtroyerI'm getting 0.6.2 from pypi right now19:35
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stevemar0.5.2 ?19:35
dtroyerbut the stuff terrylhowe did works fine with where it is now19:35
stevemarnot released since july 30th19:35
dtroyerlook for openstacksdk19:35
stevemarthats a lot of missing19:35
dtroyerthey appear to have dropped python-19:35
stevemarah okay19:36
stevemarsmart move ;)19:36
stevemarunlike these other chumps we know19:36
dtroyerwhich we're still going to do at 2.0, whenever that happens19:36
terrylhowethere won’t be a 1.0 until ksa is done19:36
terrylhoweit changes the way the user uses the sdk and makes it a lot easier to integrate19:37
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dtroyerare you guys OK with OSC starting to require sdk before then?19:37
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dtroyerI'm not worried about our internal change required there19:37
terrylhowethe python-openstacksdk project depends on openstacksdk, but it shouldn’t be used19:37
dtroyerand maybe that's our trigger to go to 2.019:37
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stevemardtroyer: i'm okay with that19:38
stevemardtroyer: how many commands do you expect will leverage the sdk?19:38
terrylhoweyeh, I think that is fine dtroyer as long as it isn’t used in something key19:38
dtroyereventually all of them?19:38
stevemardtroyer: obvssss19:38
dtroyerok, thanks terrylhowe19:38
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dtroyerI think though our start will be with Network, Image and Object-Store goven their general state overall now19:39
stevemardtroyer: so i;m looking at this gap, how much exposure will we have between now and when sdk is 1.0?19:39
dtroyerexposure to what?19:39
stevemarfrom a requirements POV it's easy, sdk only requires stuff we already use19:40
stevemardtroyer: if we release 1.8.0 with sdk, what commands will use it, only object store? only image? both?19:40
dtroyerright.  and I don't expect for the functionality to change with 1.0, just the SDK API19:41
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stevemarwhich could be churn for us19:41
dtroyerwhatever is ready when we get there?  terrylhowe has started Network, I've started Image19:41
stevemarbut won't break anyone19:41
stevemari say lets do it19:41
terrylhoweI don’t think anyone uses network much, so that is pretty safe19:41
dtroyermy hidden agenda is to remove the glanceclient and neutronclient dependencies19:41
dtroyerand their deps19:41
stevemaroh my yes19:42
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stevemardtroyer: does the sdk have support for all the image commands we do now?19:42
stevemarwe dont do any network commands :(19:42
dtroyerI don't know, was learning as I went.19:42
dtroyerwe do network * commands now, terrylhowe already has re-implemented them in SDK19:43
dtroyerwokring forward from there gets easier19:43
terrylhoweI’m not sure on coverage in the sdk image world stevemar Evertt Toews did most of the recent work there19:44
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dtroyerdoes it do both v1 and v2?19:44
dtroyerthat's what I need to figure out next, how to switch it...19:45
stevemarlooks like its missing stuff
terrylhoweyes dtroyer  and image create and basic stuff I know work, just don’t know all the details on properties etc.19:45
terrylhowebut it has v1 and v219:45
stevemarfairly limited functionality there19:46
dtroyerso we should be able to do a v2 image show with a name ;)19:46
stevemarbut we can do object and network first19:46
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dtroyerand fwiw, I'm planning to jump in and fill in holes as needed19:46
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dtroyerok, 15 min left…movie on?19:47
terrylhowesdk network and object store will do everything the osc needs19:47
dtroyer#topic reviews and bugs19:47
*** openstack changes topic to "reviews and bugs (Meeting topic: OpenStackClient)"19:47
dtroyerI've mentioned a couple of reviews already, are there any others that need attention?19:47
dtroyer looks simple and ready19:48
stevemardtroyer: oh coolness here: saharaclient is creating an osc plugin19:48
dtroyerah, that reminds me of another topic for open discussion19:48
stevemarthat was unexpected and nice to see19:49
stevemarlooks like designate and ironic are lined up too:
dtroyerzaqar is working on one, was talking about command formats with them19:51
stevemarbarbican was +2'ed but it was bit-rotted:
stevemaroh, i spoke with thingee and hemnalunch today over at -cinder19:51
dtroyerand so since stevemar took us down this road, do we list the known plugins anywhere in the docs?19:51
stevemardtroyer: duh
stevemarthough it needs an update19:52
terrylhowenice stevemar on sahara19:52
dtroyeri a word there19:52
dtroyerknown plugins objects19:52
terrylhowedesignate merged for v219:52
dtroyerfor collision avoidance purposes…19:52
stevemarahhh, the command objects?19:52
stevemarno we do not19:52
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stevemarthat could be done...19:52
dtroyerI'm thinking we might want to do that, or link to the objects in the plugin docs to make it easier to see what is in general use19:53
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stevemari'll think of a way to try and represent that19:53
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stevemarinstead of Command List we can have Plugin Command List ?19:54
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stevemarand list the known ones there... hopefully autogenerate them19:54
dtroyerthat may be a lot?  if generated, sure19:54
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dtroyerthe issue was in knowing what object names are already in use in other plugins19:55
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stevemarlet me think about it19:55
dtroyerok, thanks19:55
dtroyerany other reviews to mention?19:55
stevemardtroyer: back to cinder talk - spoke with thingee and hemnalunch - you can read the -cinder scroll back19:55
stevemarthey are entertaining the idea of deprecating the CLI for cinder19:55
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dtroyercool…  I don't have -cinder in znc, was that today?19:56
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stevemardtroyer: yes, today19:57
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stevemara few hours ago19:57
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dtroyerok, I'll find it19:58
stevemarwe can chat with them at the summit, but i think they are ready to take the plunge :)19:58
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stevemartheir only concern is microversions19:58
dtroyerif they did it similar to nove (i think they did) that's about 2/3 worked out19:58
stevemardtroyer: they haven't even done it yet, i think19:59
stevemarjust something on the horizon19:59
stevemarwe are at le end19:59
dtroyerok, even better then, we might be able to streamline them a bit.  once we implement a geneeralized discovery/negotiation we'll know what nova and ironic did wrong ;)20:00
dtroyeryup.  thanks everyone!20:00
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openstackMeeting ended Thu Sep 24 20:00:32 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)20:00
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mriedemwho's running this?21:00
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* bauzas rolls eyes to mriedem21:00
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mriedem#startmeeting nova21:01
openstackMeeting started Thu Sep 24 21:01:02 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is mriedem. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)"21:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova'21:01
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mriedemi'm not pinging lazy people that don't have calendar reminders21:01
tonybman you're alte by 2mins and mriedem is runnign the thing ;P21:01
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* mriedem brings up agenda21:01
dansmithtonyb: two minutes times the number of people waiting is a lot of minutes21:01
bauzastonyb: sssht, you could unfortunately become a chair21:02
mriedem#topic release status21:02
*** openstack changes topic to "release status (Meeting topic: nova)"21:02
mriedemrc1 is out21:02
tonybdansmith: I know I was having technical difficulties21:02
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mriedemthere will be an rc2 for translations and anything critical that missed rc121:02
jaypipesafternoon all21:02
dansmithtonyb: :)21:02
mriedemfor anything that should be considered for rc2, add the liberty-rc-potential tag21:02
mriedemand scrub these
mriedemoh snap. 2/3 are fix committed21:03
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mriedemso let's remove the potential tag someone plesae on those21:03
tonybmriedem: what's the process for remving that tag?21:03
mriedemtonyb: if it's fixed, remove the potential tag21:03
mriedemthat's what i've been doing anyway21:03
tonybmriedem: what if it's just not rc2 material?21:03
bauzasmriedem: bug 1493680 is merged in Mitaka, we need to backport it to RC221:03
openstackbug 1493680 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "HostState.metrics is no longer a dict" [High,Fix committed] - Assigned to Sylvain Bauza (sylvain-bauza)21:03
mriedemtonyb: then liberty-backport-potential21:03
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bauzasmriedem: hence the fix committed stuff21:04
tonybmriedem: okay thanks.21:04
mriedembauzas: we can't backport to a tag21:04
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mriedemand i don't see a stable/liberty branch yet21:04
tonybmriedem: just don't want to irritate people that thought it was rc'ish :/21:04
tonybmriedem: it was there last night21:04
mriedemwell, i thought we'd have a stable/liberty branch for backports21:04
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rlrossitmriedem: there is a stable/libery21:05
mriedemnot seeing it in github21:05
bauzasmriedem: well I think it was done by the release team21:05
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bauzasmriedem: given ttx's email21:05
mriedemyeah, ok21:05
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bauzasmriedem: so yeah, I was about to propose 1493680 for stable/liberty (to be clear)21:05
mriedemso liberty-rc-potential for rc2 should be backported to stable/liberty, i believe21:05
mriedemdo it21:05
Johnthetubaguy-wYeah release team created it based after that open Mitaka commit21:06
mriedemoh well look who it is21:06
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Johnthetubaguy-wHow'd you21:06
mriedem#action liberty-rc-potential tagged bugs fixed on master should be backported to stable/liberty21:06
Johnthetubaguy-wDoh autocorrect21:06
bauzasmriedem: okay, the question is still there, how can we tag bugs for being backported to stable/liberty as RC2 candidates ?21:06
mriedembauzas: i think liberty-rc-potential21:07
bauzasmriedem: okay thanks, you answered that question :)21:07
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tonybbauzas: set the milestone?21:07
mriedemuntil merged in stable/liberty21:07
mriedemi don't see an rc2 milestone21:07
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bauzastonyb: there are no lib milestones21:07
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bauzasheh, jinxed again by mriedem21:07
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Johnthetubaguy-wWe could target to rc2 milestone I guess, yeah I can get that created21:08
bauzasthat would be awesome21:08
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Johnthetubaguy-wGive me an action for the morning21:08
mriedem#action Johnthetubaguy to create an rc2 milestone21:09
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mriedemmoving on?21:09
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mriedemusual reminder for sub-teams to put their bugs on the etherpad
mriedemalso, we need to start updating the liberty release notes
Johnthetubaguy-wOops, I should create a new etherpad now21:10
mriedemwhich includes anything tagged as UpgradeImpact during liberty21:10
mriedemthere are also quite a few things probably tagged with DocImpact that are really meant for release note updates21:10
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mriedemwe can query gerrit for that stuff though, i could do that tomorrow21:10
mriedem#action mriedem to get the list of docimpact/upgradeimpact commits for release notes21:10
Johnthetubaguy-wThat would be awesome, thank you21:11
mriedemwe should get better about just doing those once the changes land21:11
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mriedemso we don't have to remind ourselves of the last 6 months21:11
mriedem# mitaka release process and specs21:11
mriedem#topic mitaka release process and specs21:11
*** openstack changes topic to "mitaka release process and specs (Meeting topic: nova)"21:11
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mriedemi guess there is an etherpad started here
Johnthetubaguy-wOh, quick thing, need Liberty blueprint summary, I may so that21:12
Johnthetubaguy-wYeah, idea is to spot important stuff21:12
Johnthetubaguy-wAnd get that soon21:12
mriedemyou mean for this mitaka etherpad?21:13
Johnthetubaguy-wAnd stop stuff that needs summit, etc21:13
Johnthetubaguy-wOops, find stuff21:13
Johnthetubaguy-wYeah, sorry, for that etherpad21:13
mriedemso i haven't really started reviewing specs21:13
mriedembut yeah people can get started on those21:13
mriedemand remember to do the previously-approved thing21:14
Johnthetubaguy-wBasically submit specs now, let's try merge before the summit where we can21:14
dansmithI've done a bunch today21:14
mriedemi thought i noticed a bunch of -1...21:14
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Johnthetubaguy-wCool, I hit a few yesterday21:15
mriedemalso, ping cores to remove -2 once the bits are place for mitaka, e.g. bp's and specs are approved21:15
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mriedemmoving on?21:15
mriedem#topic bugs21:15
*** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: nova)"21:15
Johnthetubaguy-wWe need spec less bp process, but yeah, later for that21:15
mriedemi think the gate status is okish?21:15
mriedemi haven't really paid attention in the last couple of days, but no news is good news21:15
tonybmriedem: do you want to talk about:
openstackLaunchpad bug 1415087 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "[OSSA 2015-011] Format-guessing and file disclosure in image convert (CVE-2015-1850, CVE-2015-1851)" [High,Triaged] - Assigned to Tony Breeds (o-tony)21:16
Johnthetubaguy-wWe broke ironic earlera did we merge that?21:16
bauzasJohnthetubaguy-w: yup21:16
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mriedemok, so tonyb has this security bug21:16
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bauzasJohnthetubaguy-w: bug 1499271 is fix committed21:16
openstackbug 1499271 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "MetricsWeigher can return a NoneType exception" [Critical,Fix committed] - Assigned to Sylvain Bauza (sylvain-bauza)21:16
mriedemsounds like tonyb and kashyap have identified the problems in nova for the bug21:16
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mriedemtonyb: you're working a patch?21:17
tonybmriedem: Yeah verifying that it fixes anythign other than a theoretical issues is the hard part21:17
tonybmriedem: Yeah, I'll punt on the Juno stuff until I have something out21:17
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mriedemoh you mean your stable juno crusade?21:17
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mriedemyeah i'd consider that low priority :)21:18
tonybmriedem: Yeah that thing. the tangled-web-of-onions21:18
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mriedemas for stable branches, kilo is going into a freeze for the next stable kilo release21:18
mriedemstable/juno is, ...probably doesn't matter21:19
mriedemmaybe busted, maybe not21:19
Johnthetubaguy-wfreeze, is that for strings?21:19
mriedemJohnthetubaguy-w: no21:19
tonybJohnthetubaguy-w: all commits I think21:19
mriedemstable isn't translated21:19
mriedemthe stable release lead just -2s everything21:19
Johnthetubaguy-wYeah, I think they were talking about starting, but gotcha21:19
mriedemuntil there is the tagged release and then drops the -221:20
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Johnthetubaguy-wAh, ok21:20
mriedemok, anything else on bugs?21:20
mriedem#topic design summit sessions21:20
tonybcan I add new strings?21:20
*** openstack changes topic to "design summit sessions (Meeting topic: nova)"21:20
mriedemtonyb: on master you can b/c it's mitaka21:20
tonybmriedem: okay.21:21
mriedempeople frequently backport changes to stable that have i18n changes21:21
mriedemwhich is why string freeze is kind of funny imo21:21
mriedembut let's not get into it21:21
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mriedemdesign summit sessions should be proposed here
mriedemor by emailing tonyb if your govt blocks google21:21
Johnthetubaguy-wYeah, techincally hard freeze right now21:21
mriedemtonyb's home address is in the ML i think21:22
tonybmriedem: Yeah and there's an etherpad21:22
* Johnthetubaguy-w giggles21:22
mriedemtonyb: link to the etherpad?21:22
tonybmriedem: so at least the process is clear :)21:22
mriedemit's in the ML i guess21:22
tonybmriedem: tryign to find it21:22
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Johnthetubaguy-wYeah, it's on that thread21:22
mriedemok, moving on21:23
mriedem#topic stuck reviews21:23
*** openstack changes topic to "stuck reviews (Meeting topic: nova)"21:23
mriedemi have one in here
mriedem proposes to not set the 'default' security group for neutron by default21:23
mriedembecause it breaks certain configs of neutron21:23
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mriedemif port_security_enabled=False on the network provider21:23
mriedemi put it on the stuck list since it's technically a nova api kind of change21:24
mriedembut i feel like there are reasons to justify it, inline in that reivew21:24
mriedemanyway, could use other opinions on that one21:24
Johnthetubaguy-wYeah, it's a tricky one, but it feels correct21:24
mriedemi have'nt looked in a week but i think we basically were making the wrong assumptions from the beginning,21:24
mriedemwhich is why we could justify we shouldn't do it21:24
mriedemand because neutron adds the default secgroup if port_security_enabled=True21:25
mriedemso nova doesn't/shouldn't need to21:25
Johnthetubaguy-wyeah, sounds like they have done that for a few years21:25
mriedemand ops people just hack around it21:25
Johnthetubaguy-wWhich is handy21:25
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mriedemother stuck reviews?21:26
jaypipesmriedem: ooh, kudos for digging up a bug that refers to Quantum.21:26
mriedemyou're welcome21:26
mriedemnot hearing more stuck reviews21:26
mriedem#topic open discussion21:26
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mrkzI have 2 questions regarding blueprints + specs for mitaka, to my understanding this blueprint needs a spec  so I would like to push a draft so subscribers /devs can early comment in that one21:26
mrkzso 1st question: template says to stop in "proposed change" section ( , but do I need to wipe-out all missing text below that or just leave it like that? (my current answ is just edit needed bit and leave everything as is)21:27
mrkzand 2nd question: would the review be pushed under the same folder all other mitaka specs are (specs/mitaka/approved)?21:27
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mriedemyes to 2nd21:27
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mriedemon 1st question i'd probably wipe out the rest below that, but it doesn't really matter probably21:28
mriedemas long as it's clear that the rest is template stuff21:28
mriedemother open discussion?21:28
mrkzmriedem: gotcha, thanks a lot! :)21:28
mriedemcinder people have anything?21:28
vilobhmm11I have open spec which needs some diccussion21:28
mriedemi saw some sneek in21:28
vilobhmm11sent an email on ML
bauzasmriedem: sssshhhht21:29
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* bauzas jk21:29
vilobhmm11spec : detailed options : ML
vilobhmm11please not this spec was accepted for Liberty and there are few concerns raised on the same when proposed again for Mitaka21:30
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vilobhmm11jaypipes, Johnthetubaguy-w : ^^21:30
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mriedemvilobhmm11: for someone that doesn't have the background on all of that in his head, what can we do in the nova meeting, or are you just raising awareness?21:30
mriedemi'm pretty sure dansmith wanted to keep talking about it... :P21:30
Johnthetubaguy-wYeah, I think it's an easier starting point, the new direction sounds good21:30
Johnthetubaguy-wLet's just review the updated spec I guess21:31
bauzaswell, we can discuss that on the spec21:31
dansmithvilobhmm11: you didn't update the spec did you?21:31
dansmithI thought you wanted agreement before updating the spec21:31
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Johnthetubaguy-wAh, good question21:31
dansmithmy feeling is: update the spec and lets discuss21:31
vilobhmm11dansmith : as we dicsussed the other day on IRC haev created an etherpad  with all possible options21:31
vilobhmm11thought its easier to colaborate on etherpad with multiple people involved21:32
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dansmithvilobhmm11: right, but everyone in that discussion was in favor of a change21:32
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dansmithand like I said,21:32
dansmiththe spec is where we need to document consensus21:32
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bauzas+1 to dansmith21:32
vilobhmm11ok will submit one21:32
jaypipesvilobhmm11: will try to review those tomorrow on my flight back home.21:33
mriedemmore open discussion?21:33
mriedemor leave early so i can piss off more ops poeple?21:33
mriedem*people even21:33
mriedemok, that's it21:34
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openstackMeeting ended Thu Sep 24 21:34:23 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)21:34
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openstackMinutes (text):
Johnthetubaguy-wThanks all21:34
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