Tuesday, 2015-10-20

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anteaya#startmeeting third-party08:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct 20 08:00:24 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.08:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.08:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)"08:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'third_party'08:00
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anteayaraise your hand if you are here for the third party meeting08:01
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anteayareminder to folks that this meeting is cancelled next week due to summit08:15
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anteayawe don't seem to have a large attendance for this meeting so I will close it now08:19
anteayasee you in two weeks from today08:19
anteayathank you08:19
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"08:19
openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct 20 08:19:43 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)08:19
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-10-20-08.00.html08:19
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-10-20-08.00.txt08:19
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openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-10-20-08.00.log.html08:19
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lennybbtw, http://stackalytics.com/ is down. Is it 'ours' ?10:08
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alex_xu#startmeeting nova api12:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct 20 12:00:09 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is alex_xu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.12:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.12:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova api)"12:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova_api'12:00
alex_xuwho is here today?12:00
alex_xuhello everyone!12:00
alex_xu#topic actions from last meeting12:01
*** openstack changes topic to "actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: nova api)"12:01
alex_xuAction: alex_xu file bug for wadl doc problem, and work with Kevin_Zheng on fix them12:01
alex_xualso gmann help on this12:01
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alex_xu#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-v2.1-api-doc12:01
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alex_xuall the problem which I found, already fixed12:01
alex_xualso part of them already merged12:01
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alex_xuKevin_Zheng, gmann thanks for fixing12:02
gmann_sorry for late12:02
Kevin_ZhengYour welcome12:02
johnthetubaguyah, great stuff12:02
alex_xuAction: alex_xu create bp and etherpad to track the concept doc work12:02
alex_xu#link Action: alex_xu create bp and etherpad to track the concept doc work12:02
alex_xu#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/complete-todo-in-api-concept-doc12:02
alex_xu^ I just created the bp12:03
alex_xuplease free feel to take any todo from api concept doc12:03
johnthetubaguyjust approved it12:03
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: thanks!12:03
alex_xuwe probably we dicussion how to get more people join those works, we have a lot of doc work in M12:04
johnthetubaguy+1 its a good thing to talk about that the summit12:04
alex_xuAction: gmann_ will creae BP and etherpad to track the work merge api sample test and run all the extensions12:04
johnthetubaguywe have a low hanging fruit doc, but this is not really that12:04
gmann_did today12:04
alex_xugmann_: how was that?12:04
gmann_#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/api-sample-tests-with-all-extensions12:04
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: yea12:04
alex_xugmann_: cool, thanks12:05
alex_xuI remember there already have a patch up12:05
gmann_johnthetubaguy, please aprove that too :)12:05
gmann_i also started base patch on that- https://review.openstack.org/#/c/237400/12:05
johnthetubaguy-1067 nice12:05
alex_xugmann_: cool12:06
johnthetubaguydid those removed tests just become redundant I guess?12:06
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johnthetubaguyoh, I see now, cools12:06
gmann_johnthetubaguy, yea redundant tests written for separate extensions will be removed12:06
johnthetubaguyapproved that blueprint12:07
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gmann_and best will be we will get rid of all extension list flag setting for v212:07
alex_xuI'm thinking how we test bdm or scheduler-hints thing12:07
gmann_johnthetubaguy, Thanks12:07
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alex_xuwill all bdm and scheduler-hints showing one single servers api sample test?12:08
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gmann_alex_xu, may be , i need to check those12:08
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alex_xugmann_: yea, we only have one sample test, but we need show all of those parameters12:08
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alex_xuok, cool, let's move on12:09
gmann_for each resource single tests will all param in request response12:09
alex_xuAction: johnthetubaguy to sort out etherpads for API session, and send link to alex_xu12:09
alex_xu#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-nova-api12:09
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: thanks for the etherpad12:09
sdaguehey folks (sorry, was working on etherpads) :)12:09
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alex_xualso thanks to sdague, he already list all the things in the etherpad12:10
gmann_alex_xu, johnthetubaguy cool12:10
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alex_xusdague: yea, cool etherpad :)12:10
gmann_Thanks guys, it will be great12:10
alex_xuI didn't found anymore I can add to etherpad12:10
sdaguejohnthetubaguy: you happy with that etherpad agenda?12:10
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alex_xu#topic Summit API Session12:11
*** openstack changes topic to "Summit API Session (Meeting topic: nova api)"12:11
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sdagueI'll probably delete the little agenda bit at the bottom12:11
* alex_xu jump the topic directly12:11
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johnthetubaguysdague: looks close, I keep meaning to loop back around all of those etherpads to see where we are add12:11
johnthetubaguysdague: that was more a consitency thing, I think we just move pre-reading to the top, and the rest is your agenda12:11
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sdaguejohnthetubaguy: ok, I think we're probably not going to get to the feature classification bits yet12:11
sdagueyeh, that's fine12:11
johnthetubaguysdague: yeah, I am thinking about adding a testing session to replace the final unconference session12:12
johnthetubaguywe need to push on testing, thinking about how to make it happen12:12
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sdagueI also think I found another person in our team that's interested in helping here, including on the docs side. I think trying to recruit more folks to help on docs this cycle will be an important part of this.12:12
alex_xusdague: +112:13
gmann_sdague, yea12:13
alex_xulooks like we still didn't have microversion test on tempest12:13
johnthetubaguyalex_xu: we should both talk to the OSIC people about making this a priority12:13
oomichiyeah, right12:13
johnthetubaguyalex_xu: that would be a good add, at least one of those12:13
gmann_alex_xu, yea, we have 1 session for that12:13
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oomichiand we have qa-session for microversion test12:13
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: yea12:13
alex_xugmann_: oomichi cool12:14
gmann_I have WIP patch for microversion top bottom and changed testing12:14
johnthetubaguyoomichi: ah, OK, can you report back to the nova meetup on the outcome of that maybe?12:14
oomichi#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-nova-api12:14
oomichioops, wrong12:14
johnthetubaguygmann: you mean in tempest or nova?12:14
oomichi#link http://mitakadesignsummit.sched.org/event/10827a8275cb824c9e2a0fd2ee9c4ae1#.ViYwIm48qaw12:14
oomichiin tempest12:14
gmann_johnthetubaguy, on nova12:14
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johnthetubaguygmann: do we have a blueprint for that?12:15
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gmann_as we discussed in Vancouver that nova functional test should tests top bottm an changed version12:15
gmann_not yet,12:15
johnthetubaguygmann: agreed with the direction, just thinking about a specless blueprint to track it12:15
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gmann_sure will do tomorow12:15
johnthetubaguygmann: send me a link, and I can get that approved for you12:15
gmann_johnthetubaguy, sure12:15
gmann_johnthetubaguy, Thanks12:16
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sdaguebrb, baby waking up.12:16
gmann_sdague, :)12:16
oomichisdague: cool :-)12:16
alex_xu#action gmann_ create bp for microversion top bottom and changed testing12:16
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gmann_alex_xu, Thansk.12:16
alex_xusdague: heh, baby is urgent thing12:16
alex_xugmann_: np12:16
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alex_xuany more question on summit api session?12:17
* edleafe doesn't miss having babies run my schedule12:17
johnthetubaguysounds like a good set of things, thanks for the prep on that12:17
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alex_xusomething like remove v3 cleanup looks like needn't list at there12:18
alex_xuyea, really thanks to sdague12:18
alex_xuso let's move on12:18
alex_xu#topic API Documentation12:18
*** openstack changes topic to "API Documentation (Meeting topic: nova api)"12:18
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alex_xufor generate swagger doc, current we have two poc12:19
alex_xuone is generated from nova code base, we already talk about that in last week12:19
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alex_xu#link  https://review.openstack.org/23344612:19
alex_xuanother one is generate from tempest log, which thanks to oomichi12:20
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alex_xu#link  https://review.openstack.org/23509212:20
alex_xuoomichi: ^ do you want to talk about that?12:20
oomichialex_xu: not so many.12:20
johnthetubaguyso my thoughts on this stuff are quite nova specific12:20
johnthetubaguylook at these two, I like this approach12:20
johnthetubaguy(1) generate docs from the code12:20
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* sdague is back12:21
oomichialex_xu: maybe it is nice to make the combination of both for covering all cases12:21
johnthetubaguy(2) have tests that run to check the docs12:21
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johnthetubaguy(3) have a way to check tempest coverage vs the docs12:21
johnthetubaguyor something like that12:21
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oomichijohnthetubaguy: nice idea12:21
johnthetubaguybasically, +1 to what oomichi said about the combo12:21
alex_xuoomichi: yea12:22
gmann_yea that will be cool thing12:22
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: sounds cool12:22
oomichijohnthetubaguy: and it is nice to improve test coverage also for tempset by using both:-)12:22
johnthetubaguyI like that you commit the code in nova, and we get some docs and testing automatically in that commit12:22
gmann_i like 3 part more12:22
sdaguealex_xu: instead of using a decorator, can we use a docstring?12:22
johnthetubaguysdague: +112:22
alex_xusdague: yea, we can12:22
sdagueeven if that docstring needs a marker in it like: ::api_doc::12:22
alex_xusdague: or your mean all the docs, like for input, output, error code?12:22
sdagueand the chunk after it is what we consider for swagger12:23
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sdagueI feel like instead of @wsgi.doc12:23
sdaguein looking at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/233446/6/nova/api/openstack/compute/keypairs.py,cm12:23
johnthetubaguysdague: I wonderd about removing the param, use first line as the short title, and the rest as the description12:23
sdaguejohnthetubaguy: yeh, maybe12:23
alex_xusdague: yea, that's one also want to docstr to instead12:23
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: +112:24
edleafesdague: decorators are easier to understand than some nested docstring. What is the concern with them?12:24
gmann_or how about adding description in request schema12:24
oomichi+1 for docstring12:24
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johnthetubaguyedleafe: its prose in a decorator, its super hard to read12:24
oomichion my PoC also, docstring is used12:24
gmann_if we have schema for all APIs12:24
oomichifor explaining overview of API12:24
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sdagueedleafe: yeh, being in a decorator means that it's going to push people towards brevity12:25
edleafejohnthetubaguy: ah, thanks. Didn't know you were aiming for verbosity12:25
sdaguebeing in a docstring is going to allow for people to expand and even add things like examples12:25
gmann_we have have each param description in schema along with general one12:25
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alex_xuactually we need doc for request schema, response schema, url params, query params, error status code, success code, currently implement looks mess, all of those thing spread in many place12:25
johnthetubaguyyeah, I like the params being described in the schmea12:26
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gmann_ye, so we have type and their description all in one place12:26
johnthetubaguyso I think it needs to be close to where things are modified12:26
oomichiyes, it is nice to write the explanation of each param at close place12:26
johnthetubaguywhen you change the param, you change the schema, so that feels OK12:26
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oomichijohnthetubaguy: +1, nice to maintain the code12:27
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: yea, that is good point, also think about that in the beginning12:27
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johnthetubaguybut honestly, I think we just need to pick one and try it, and evolve it as we go12:27
sdagueso, personally, I think we should focus on the docs close to the code. The schema should just be enforcement and not description.12:27
johnthetubaguyjust, yeah, my preference is close to where you normally make modifications, for the best hope of folks noticing the need for changing the doc12:27
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sdagueanyway - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/233446/6/nova/api/openstack/compute/keypairs.py,cm if it used docstrings instead of decorators would be super useful I think12:28
gmann_sdague, but param type and thir checking on schema side than code12:28
johnthetubaguysdague: I am thinking the schema is close enough, as we probably change the schema if the docs need to change, but yeah, if it could get in the code, then maybe thats better12:29
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oomichisdague: what "not description" mean?12:29
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oomichijohnthetubaguy: yeah, schema is nice place to write the description for each param12:29
sdagueoomichi: describing each parameter inside the schema seems like the wrong places to do that12:29
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oomichisdague: discussion point12:30
sdaguebecause the schema is really the test12:30
sdaguein some ways12:30
sdagueyou want to describe your intent elsewhere12:30
sdagueand then the schema enforces it12:30
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johnthetubaguywell the schema drives the param checking code, the response schema is much less clear12:30
sdagueif you only describe your intent in the enforcement layer, you tend to slip up and change enforcement an intent12:31
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johnthetubaguyhmm, true12:31
gmann_sdague, schema has all their type range etc defined12:31
oomichisdague: uhm, difficult12:31
sdaguegmann_: right, sure, and that's fine12:31
johnthetubaguyanyways, I think this is one we need to see in code first12:31
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oomichisdague: most info of each param is written in schema12:32
oomichigmann_: yeah12:32
johnthetubaguyneed it to look non-horrible, ideally12:32
sdagueyeh, anyway, lets look at how it all comes together12:32
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sdagueso more poc12:32
sdagueand see what each stage looks like12:32
alex_xuok, cool12:32
oomichinice step12:32
johnthetubaguylets layer on the param bits, see how it looks12:32
sdaguebecause it's important that the generated docs feel coherent12:32
johnthetubaguysdague: +112:32
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sdagueand it's important the improving the docs is straight forward12:32
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sdaguebecause if it's editing in a million places, no one will improve it12:33
oomichisdague: big +112:33
sdaguewe want to grow a class of contributors that can improve our docs without understanding our code12:33
oomichinice api doc will make us avoid wrong API usages12:33
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alex_xusdague: +112:33
johnthetubaguyagreed, certainly for clarity, etc12:33
gmann_sdague, yup12:33
alex_xuok, cool, so let's move on?12:34
gmann_and can implement tests with those doc without code reading which i always do :(12:34
johnthetubaguygmann_: +112:34
alex_xu#topic Remove project_id from URL12:34
*** openstack changes topic to "Remove project_id from URL (Meeting topic: nova api)"12:34
alex_xuthis is another important work12:34
alex_xusdague: do you want to talk about it?12:34
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alex_xuI added this into the agenda, thinking of this is something should tracked by api team12:35
sdaguealex_xu: sure12:35
sdagueso in support of the service catalog tng work, I spent last week trying to see what's required to remove project_id from nova12:36
sdagueit's not too bad12:36
sdague#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/removing-project-id-in-nova-urls12:36
* johnthetubaguy wonders if we should rename to making project_id optional in the URL12:36
sdaguethat was my working document12:36
sdaguejohnthetubaguy: yeh, that's fair, it's making it optional12:36
alex_xusdague: cool12:36
gmann_sdague, and we need to support url with project_id too by ignoring them ? or m missing something12:36
alex_xuwe aren't removing url with new microversion?12:37
sdaguethe only place we care about project_id, mostly, is during one enforcement check12:37
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johnthetubaguyalex_xu: so I think we need to backport this change to previous versions, but thats maybe a different discussion12:37
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alex_xujohnthetubaguy: ok12:38
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sdagueyeh, we have to figure out our version signaling on this12:38
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oomichieasy to implement it with ProjectMapper instead of PlainMapper12:38
gmann_because response contain those in namespace or links etc12:38
sdaguemy feeling right now is that we should add a microversion to indicate that project_id is optional from here on out12:38
johnthetubaguysdague: +1 my gut says the same thing12:39
sdaguethat's one of the reasons the patch is Do Not Merge12:39
gmann_sdague, +1 for version to publish12:39
oomichisdague: if specified microversion doesn't support it but client doesn't pass project-id, nova will return 400?12:39
johnthetubaguythe other thing, is we probably don't want to remove this in a microversion, because of all the folks using the old service catalog entries, as folks transition12:40
sdagueoomichi: no12:40
johnthetubaguyoomichi: its just optional, I think12:40
oomichisdague: the microversion is just for publishing12:40
sdagueoomichi: or at least that wasn't my intent12:40
sdaguebecause this involves changing the mapper12:40
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sdagueso it's kind of hard to do it runtime12:40
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oomichisdague: yeah, right12:40
oomichisdague: from implemenation side12:41
alex_xujust for publishing is good idea12:41
sdagueit's a compromise, but unless we want to massively redo Routes, I don't think we can get perfect microversion behavior12:41
johnthetubaguyso its something we though about doing in v3 right, but dropped it, making it optional/ignored seems like a better solution12:41
sdagueso just using the microversion as the signaling element seemed fine12:41
sdaguejohnthetubaguy: yeh, it was not going to be there in v312:42
oomichisdague: yeah, my small concern is that that doesn't seems perfect for microversion12:42
johnthetubaguyso thinking about signalling, I guess the big signal is actually in the service catalog?12:42
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sdaguejohnthetubaguy: yes12:42
sdagueexcept, so many applications hard code past the service catalog12:43
sdagueso we can't just depend on that12:43
johnthetubaguyyeah, +112:43
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johnthetubaguymany signals good12:43
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sdaguethe first session of the design summit is a double session on the service catalog tng work12:44
sdagueI'm mostly going to leave this patch in the DNM state until after summit12:44
johnthetubaguyyeah, +112:44
sdagueand just make sure we have broad agreement on the big plan12:44
sdagueproject_ids being optional is an early bit that projects will need to do12:44
edleafeyeah, I'd like to hear all the concerns12:44
sdagueso assuming no giant roadblocks, we should be able to clean this up and merge by M-112:45
sdaguehttps://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-service-catalog-session is the etherpad for service catalog session12:45
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johnthetubaguyso for context, we use Repose in front of our API, I think there will need to be changes to drop the project_id in the URL12:46
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sdaguejohnthetubaguy: right, probably12:46
gmann_yea, in links it is added12:46
oomichisdague: do we have a nova-spec for that now?12:47
johnthetubaguybut honestly, I consider that all a bit evil, but its a heads up12:47
johnthetubaguyrepose that is12:47
sdagueoomichi: no nova-spec, we're going to use the openstack spec + nova blueprint12:47
oomichisdague: ah, I see.12:47
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oomichisdague: nice combination12:47
johnthetubaguyyeah, cross project consistency FTW12:47
alex_xucool, if no more question, looks it's time to move on12:48
sdaguesounds good12:48
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alex_xu#topic API futures - specs12:48
*** openstack changes topic to "API futures - specs (Meeting topic: nova api)"12:48
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alex_xuanyone people want to bring up?12:48
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johnthetubaguydid you all see the spec etherpad?12:49
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johnthetubaguy#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-nova-spec-review-tracking12:49
johnthetubaguythere is an API section in there12:49
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: yea12:49
alex_xuok let me bring up one12:49
johnthetubaguyfeel free to use that in ways you all find useful12:49
gmann_johnthetubaguy, cool12:49
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: ok12:49
alex_xu#link #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/227274/112:49
alex_xuThis spec is going to correct a lot of status code. Like 200->204, 200->201 and 200->20212:50
oomichijohnthetubaguy: oh, thanks12:50
alex_xuThe question do we welcome this kind of change? I feel only 200->202 useful.12:50
alex_xuother fix is more about consistent12:50
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alex_xuif we think the fix is ok, And do we think it is ok fix them all in one microversion?12:50
oomichialex_xu: that is based on api-wg guideline?12:50
alex_xuoomichi: yea12:50
oomichialex_xu: cool :)12:50
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gmann_alex_xu, if changing all then this seems huge change so increase in x?12:51
gmann_for x.y12:51
sdagueI feel like we should bring all the API wg changes in in one microversion12:51
alex_xugmann_: yea, one microversion change a lot of apis12:51
sdagueand it should include the new header as well12:51
gmann_sdague, +1 that will be great12:51
johnthetubaguysdague: its tempting12:51
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johnthetubaguyso the thing that worries me, is making it harder for existing users to use new features12:52
sdaguebut, before we do that, we should make sure we've got reasonable way of showing documentation for microversions12:52
gmann_johnthetubaguy, it avoids having lot of microversion for same kinda fix12:52
johnthetubaguyany its very marginal benifit12:52
sdaguejohnthetubaguy: right, I don't think it's a huge rush12:52
johnthetubaguysdague: yeah, actually thats a very good way of look at it12:52
sdaguelets make sure we have a docs before / after story that looks good first12:52
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johnthetubaguyso I think its something we should push until next cycle12:53
sdaguejohnthetubaguy: yeh, I'm fine with that12:53
johnthetubaguywhat do you all think?12:53
sdagueor late this cycle if the doc display is all sorted12:53
alex_xusounds ok for me12:53
sdaguebut doing it before then is going to mostly create confusion12:53
gmann_sounds good after doc thing12:53
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gmann_sdague, johnthetubaguy anytime we gong to change x in microversion?12:54
sdaguegmann_: I don't think so12:54
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* alex_xu mis-reading gmann_ works in previous12:55
sdagueI never believed X was meant to be changed12:55
gmann_because we have not shorted out the y arting point of any x12:55
johnthetubaguyyeah, I don't think we defined what that would mean12:55
sdagueit will be 2.y forever12:55
gmann_arting -> starting12:55
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johnthetubaguysdague: +112:55
gmann_yea, my feeling too12:55
oomichisdague: yeah, that is12:55
sdaguepeople kept confusing this for semver :) it's not, it's negotiation.12:55
oomichisdague: that is common misunderstand on current microversion anyway12:56
alex_xuanother one12:56
johnthetubaguyright, its a different concept12:56
alex_xu#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/209917/12:56
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alex_xuit's add project_id and user_id to server-group response12:56
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gmann_alex_xu, ahh12:57
alex_xuthe only think I don't like is only show project_id and user_id when admin context is used12:57
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alex_xuI think we should just show those two attrs in all the times12:57
alex_xuand everything is simple12:57
alex_xuwhat would you think guys?12:57
gmann_will it be more useful in create response /12:57
Kevin_Zheng it will make no harm I guess12:57
johnthetubaguydo we show user_id for server, I can't remember now?12:58
oomichialex_xu: +112:58
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gmann_in create we do not show12:58
edleafealex_xu: +112:58
alex_xujohnthetubaguy, I remember yes, at least nothing just for admin user12:58
oomichialex_xu: nice to make consistent API and there is not demerit for doing that I guess12:58
sdaguealex_xu: yeh, showing it all the time seems the right call12:58
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alex_xuok, cool, thanks guys for having agreement12:58
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alex_xuso I have enough more today12:59
alex_xuoops, I have nothing more today12:59
annegentleI had a question12:59
ccarmackalex_xu:  there was some talk of getting more people involved in API doc work.   I'd like to get involved.12:59
johnthetubaguycool, almost out of time12:59
annegentlesorry I'm laste12:59
alex_xuannegentle: :)12:59
annegentleyeah ccarmack!12:59
alex_xu#topic open12:59
*** openstack changes topic to "open (Meeting topic: nova api)"12:59
sdagueccarmack: awesome12:59
sdagueannegentle: what's up?12:59
alex_xuccarmack: cool12:59
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ccarmackannegentle, sdague:  I could do PoC or spec implemenation13:00
annegentlealex_xu: any way to use the verbage from the existing api doc? I put that in my review and hadn't gone back to see your response yet13:00
alex_xusorry, annegentle ccarmack, it's time to close the meeting :(13:00
ccarmackcan we discuss on -nova?13:00
johnthetubaguylets jump into #openstack-nova quickly13:00
sdagueok, let's go to #openstack-nova for follow ups13:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"13:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct 20 13:00:44 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)13:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-10-20-12.00.html13:00
alex_xuthanks all!13:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-10-20-12.00.txt13:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-10-20-12.00.log.html13:00
edleafethanks alex_xu!13:00
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Qiming#startmeeting senlin13:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct 20 13:01:14 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.13:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.13:01
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*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'senlin'13:01
Qiminghello guys13:01
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Qiming#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda#Weekly_Senlin_.28Clustering.29_meeting13:01
yanyanhuI guess haiwei is on the way back hometown13:01
Qimingplease revise agenda if you have things to add13:01
Qimingyes, heard that13:02
Qimingfeel sorry about him13:02
Qimingdon't know if lixinhui will join today13:02
Qiminganyway, let's get started13:02
Qiming#topic health policy and its relationship to scaling policy13:03
*** openstack changes topic to "health policy and its relationship to scaling policy (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:03
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Qimingso lixinhui talked to me this afternoon, she is looking into that policy13:03
yanyanhuhi, elynn13:03
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Qimingit is a requirement from some production teams as well13:04
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QimingI have got quite some complaints that resourcegroup cannot handle resource failures13:04
yanyanhuyes, I think their thought about 'desired_capacity' and 'current size' is understandbale13:05
Qimingwe had a demo last year on Paris summit, showing how VM HA can be done13:05
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Qimingthe prototype was done using Heat, but the solution doesn't fall into Heat's scope13:06
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Qimingso we have had a sample policy here: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/senlin/tree/examples/policies/health_policy_poll.yaml13:06
Qimingand a WIP code here:  http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/senlin/tree/senlin/policies/health_policy.py13:07
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Qimingmy colleague helped write that code but didn't finish it before switching to other jobs13:08
Qimingglad lixinhui is picking this up13:08
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yanyanhuthis workitem has been there for about half year I think :)13:08
Qimingdefinitely, she will need help13:08
Qimingone thing is about how to trigger recovery actions13:09
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yanyanhuyes, I think how to perform the health check for each node is the key issue we need to figure out13:10
Qimingmaybe we need to define a do_recover() method for the base Profile class for an implementation to decide how to recover itself13:10
yanyanhuI found a decorator of 'periodic_task' is added13:10
Qimingwell, failure detection is not a great challenge13:10
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Qimingwe have three options at least: 1) poll the node status periodically for clusters attached with a health policy13:11
Qiming2) poll the LB health monitor if a cluster has a lb policy attached13:11
Qiming3) listen to lifecycle events on message queue13:11
Qimingthe first, very naive, very generic solution is to have the health_manager to call profile.do_check()13:12
Qimingso we can know if the object (stack, server) is still active13:12
Qimingthat could serve the base line13:12
QimingI am proposing it to be the "base line" because it introduces no dependencies to other services13:13
yanyanhuyes, these three choices should be available13:14
yanyanhubut I guess we may still need to rely on some APIs provided by other services to help decide the status of node13:15
Qimingwe can figure out better/advanced solutions/strategies when we gain some experiences from this naive version13:15
QimingI believe most objects exposed have a 'status' property13:15
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Qimingwe may need to figure out how to handle those objects who do not support status check13:17
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yanyanhuor sometimes, the status may not be able to reflect the real availability of node13:17
Qimingbut ... if they don't have a status for checking, we cannot be sure we can "recover" it, right?13:17
Qimingyanyanhu, that is very true13:18
yanyanhuyea, this is the problem...13:18
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Qimingso one of the key design is to have a profile to implement a do_recover() method13:18
Qimingand somehow make that a builtin action to support13:18
Qimingthen expose it with a webhook13:19
Qimingwe throw the question back to users13:19
jruanothat sounds doable as a first attempt13:19
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yanyanhuI think we can start from the simplest case13:20
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QimingI'll talk to lixinhui about this13:20
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Qimingyes, simple case can help us learn a lot13:20
Qiminganother question asked is13:20
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Qiminghow do we deal with CLUSTER_DEL_NODES/CLUSTER_SCALE_IN actions13:21
Qimingif the actions are not changing the desired_capability13:21
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yanyanhuI think that depends on our definition of cluster_del_nodes and cluster_scale_in13:22
Qimingmaybe a better question to ask is how do we deal with the "conflict" between health policy and scaling policy13:22
yanyanhumaybe we just define them as actions which will reduce the desired_capacity of cluster :)13:22
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Qimingpreviously, when I was studying the amazon design13:23
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Qimingsomewhere they have an option to temporarily disable the health policy13:23
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QimingI believe that is a feature proposed out of hard lessons learned13:24
yanyanhuthat means health policy is the most powerful one once it is enabled :)13:24
yanyanhuI think this is reasonable13:24
yanyanhusince availability should have higher priority than performance13:25
yanyanhuor cost13:25
Qimingtemporarily disable health policy was considered when we design cluster_policy table13:25
Qimingthe 'enabled' field in that table is for this very purpose13:25
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Qimingwe don't know what operators want to do13:26
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Qimingthey may have a good reason to do this, for a manual scaling or something13:26
Qimingso .. refer to this code: https://github.com/openstack/senlin/blob/master/senlin/engine/actions/cluster_action.py#L672-L69913:26
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Qimingit is the logic of CLUSTER_UPDATE_POLICY action13:27
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Qimingif we move this code to be a method of a cluster13:27
Qimingit can be shared13:27
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Qimingin policy checkings, we can always temporarily disable the health policy (if any) and reenable it in the pre_op and post_op calls13:29
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Qiminga byproduct of this is that the actions code are greatly simplified13:30
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yanyanhuhmm, that's true13:30
Qiminglet's think about it13:31
Qiming#topic heat resource type support13:31
*** openstack changes topic to "heat resource type support (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:31
Qimingoh, elynn dropped13:32
Qimingtwo links on the agenda13:32
yanyanhulets wait him for a while13:32
yanyanhuI think the current spec looks good13:32
Qimingfirst is the spec proposal in heat13:32
Qimingyes, already +2'ed13:33
yanyanhuonly possible question is about the spec property of profile13:33
Qiminghowever, we need to think beyond that13:33
yanyanhusince it is really different from current design about template13:33
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Qimingyes, I will try my best to convince heat team that we are doing the right thing13:33
yanyanhuit could take a while for other people to understand it13:33
QimingI think heat cores can grasp the idea quickly13:34
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yanyanhusure, what we need to do is decribing it clearly :)13:34
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Qimingit's lesson learned when the convergence proposal was discussed13:34
yanyanhuand correctly13:34
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Qimingbasically, you have 'template', 'environment', 'parameters' and 'files' together to determine the 'desired_state'13:35
Qimingall these four inputs should be consolidated into a single "spec" for defining a stack13:35
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yanyanhuyea, this is what spec is for13:36
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Qimingor else we cannot know what a stack should look like13:37
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yanyanhuAnother possible issue is about senlinclient plugin for heat13:37
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Qimingyes, senlinclient has some big issues13:38
yanyanhudo we need to further refactor the implmentation of python-senlinclient to make this work easier?13:38
Qimingone thing is about the interfacing with openstacksdk13:38
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Qimingyes, that is something we need to do13:38
Qimingespecially for profile create13:39
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Qiminghere are some preprocessing logic there13:39
Qimingfor parsing of the get_file function13:39
yanyanhuyes, I also think so13:39
Qimingwhen invoked from other services (including senlin-dashboard), those logics are skipped13:39
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elynnyes, and also needed by heat resource properties.13:40
elynnJust lost my connection on my way home...13:41
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Qimingwe will need to fix the problem from ourside first13:41
yanyanhuso it seems that these get_file operations need to be done in senlinclient13:41
yanyanhuon behalf of heatclient13:41
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Qimingright, we have dependencies to heatclient because of that extra parsing logic13:41
Qiming#action file a bug on profile_create skipping template parsing13:42
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yanyanhuI think we need fix this issue before elynn can start his work :)13:42
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Qimingyes, it is high priority13:43
Qimingregarding interaction with Heat, we have more questions to answer13:43
Qiming#link http://sched.co/4QbQ13:43
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Qimingit would be a good and difficult discussion13:44
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yanyanhuyes, really hope this session won't conflict with the demo on booth13:44
elynnyes, what are you going to talk about in summit?13:44
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Qimingelynn, question to whom?13:45
yanyanhuor maybe I can ask other guy to help me stay at the booth if so13:45
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elynnquestins about ASG in heat13:45
Qimingit is a design summit working session13:45
Qimingpeople sit around a table for discussion13:46
yanyanhuelynn, you really should join the design session :)13:46
elynnI did hope..13:46
yanyanhuI joined once in 2013 hongkong summit, very interestring13:46
Qimingelynn, don't worry, https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-heat-autoscaling13:46
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Qimingthis will be the etherpad13:47
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Qimingwe need to think beyond current spec13:47
Qiminghow autoscaling would be supported once cluster is in13:48
elynnI try to implement ResourceGroup and found that it's not very easy to do that, so many properties and situation need to be consider. like index_var, rolling_update, removal_policy.13:48
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elynnAll these questions might throw out at that session. Need to be careful...13:48
Qimingrolling_update and removal_policy can be modeled as senlin policies13:49
Qimingjust to make heat user's life easier13:49
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Qimingindex_var is difficult13:49
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Qimingit is completely a heat thing13:49
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Qimingso I think it can be still implemented in heat13:50
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yanyanhuwhat is index_var for?13:50
elynnWhy are you saying that index_var is difficult? Since senlin can set the names of nodes in cluster, is it possible to change that logic to support index_var?13:50
yanyanhuoh, I see13:51
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Qimingelynn, I mean the logic should live in heat, not passed to senlin for parsing13:51
yanyanhuI recalled we used before13:51
Qimingit is mainly used for naming things for easier reference later13:51
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Qimingthe key is to translate the 'resource_def' property into a profile13:52
yanyanhuQiming, I think I understand elynn's concern about index_var13:52
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Qimingand make the future update behave as what users expected13:53
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elynnIf that logic live in heat, if I delete a node from cluster manually, heat might not aware of that. And will cause NotFound error or something else...13:53
Qimingif the cluster is created from a heat stack13:53
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Qimingheat is responsible for that13:53
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Qimingjust like you will delete a nova server secretly, :)13:54
Qimingelynn, feel free to call a f2f discussion this week if you have questions13:54
Qiming#topic summit meetup planning13:55
*** openstack changes topic to "summit meetup planning (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:55
elynnyes, I will, after I investigate more deeper.13:55
QimingI haven't look at the logistics yet13:55
Qimingroom is very limited13:55
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Qimingneed to spend some time on this13:56
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Qimingso please watch mailinglist13:56
yanyanhuhi, elynn, I think a node should not be deleted manually using senlin interface in that case13:56
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Qimingwill annouce time/location to meet when we have a plan13:56
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Qiminganything else?13:57
jruanonothing from me13:57
elynnnot from me13:57
QimingI need to talk to sdk guys for code review13:57
Qimingit is stagnating13:58
Qimingneed to know what's the plan next13:58
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yanyanhuyes, we have dependency on it13:58
Qimingit is blocking a lot of things from us13:58
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Qimingbtw, next weekly meeting will be cancelled13:59
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Qimingtalk to you in two weeks, :)13:59
Qimingthanks for joining13:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"13:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct 20 13:59:27 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)13:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-10-20-13.01.html13:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-10-20-13.01.txt13:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-10-20-13.01.log.html13:59
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* mestery wanders in with coffee13:59
Sam-I-Ammestery: moo13:59
armaxajo, ihrachys, rossella_s, mestery, kevinbenton, emagana ping13:59
* regXboi already went for the ddp13:59
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* Sam-I-Am is pre-coffeeing14:00
ajohi armax14:00
mesteryregXboi: Diamond Dallas Page?14:00
armax#startmeeting networking14:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct 20 14:00:12 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is armax. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)"14:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'networking'14:00
regXboimestery: diet dr pepper14:00
armaxmorning/afternoon/evening folks14:00
emaganahello all!14:00
mesteryregXboi: Makes more sense ;)14:00
regXboiI second Sam-I-Am: moo14:00
ajothanks for the ping, I may need to run around 16:45, depending on how my "backup" for a task works..14:00
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ajoxx:45 :)14:00
emaganaalready had coffee... ready to go14:00
Sam-I-Amemagana: and you're an hour earlier than me14:01
armax#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings Agenda14:01
ajothanks for those early "wake-ups"14:01
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armax#topic Announcements14:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking)"14:01
emaganaSam-I-Am: yeah.. I can't believe that I am already at work14:01
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armaxwe all know this is the week before the summit14:01
* gongysh step in14:01
* jroll pokes dtantsur14:01
armaxas a reminder, we’ll cancel the next two meetings14:01
armaxhi all14:02
emaganayeah.. Tokyo!14:02
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* mestery expects some karaoke in Tokyo14:02
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ajoenjoy tokio, I'll miss hanging out with you guys&gals14:02
mesteryajo: You're not gonna be there? #sadpanda14:02
Sam-I-Amajo: i'm not going either14:02
* regXboi wonders if mestery can sing...14:02
mesteryI can't sing, so be warned regXboi14:03
* dtantsur bites jroll14:03
armaxtalking about the summit14:03
Sam-I-AmregXboi: depends on booze levels?14:03
* regXboi isn't worried - he won't be there either14:03
armaxthere’s a social event being organized14:03
armax#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-October/077108.html14:03
Sam-I-AmregXboi: we can have our own denver summit14:03
regXboiSam-I-Am: that's very likely :)14:03
ajomestery, sadly I can't this year, but you will have to bear with me next one ;D14:03
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armaxplease sign up if you intend to join14:03
emaganaSam-I-Am & ajo: What? We will miss you guys14:03
jrolldtantsur: well that escalated quickly14:03
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Sam-I-Amemagana: i'll be there in spirit14:03
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* rossella_s already signed uo14:04
* regXboi updates calendar to skip next two meetings14:04
* mestery registered too14:04
yamamotoit will be thursday 19:00-.  amotoki made a reservation.  further details will be announced on ML.14:04
emaganaSam-I-Am: spirits dont drink with us14:04
* ihrachys registered long time ago14:04
mesterythanks for organizing yamamoto and amotoki!14:04
Sam-I-Amemagana: but you drink spirits14:04
* armax reminds himself to register14:04
rossella_sthanks yamamoto and amotoki14:04
salv-orlandoemagana: technically we drink spirits14:04
armaxthe summit is also a week away14:04
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armax#link  http://mitakadesignsummit.sched.org/overview/type/neutron14:04
emaganasalv-orlando: good point..14:04
armaxwe have a nearly final draft of the schedule14:05
armaxI am working with the session chairs to polish it up14:05
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rossella_sgreat :)14:05
armaxthanks to mestery, dougwig, carl_baldwin, kevinbenton, ihrachys, sc68cal, xgerman, cathy, gsagie, et al14:05
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armaxoh and by the way...14:06
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armax#link  https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/7.0.014:06
armaxLiberty is OUT!14:06
emaganasc68cal: you are there already!14:06
Sam-I-Amso is the install guide, with linux bridge :)14:06
ihrachysall the fun is about master.14:06
emaganaarmax: great job! as well as the rest of the team14:06
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mesteryihrachys: lol :)14:07
armaxemagana: the job was mestery's14:07
mesteryIt was everyone's, I merely herded some cats ;)14:07
armaxor a team effort14:07
Sam-I-Amits all a mestery to me how it works14:07
mesteryarmax knows this well by now I suspect :)14:07
armaxlet’s put it that way14:07
* salv-orlando thinks ihrachys is a wise man14:07
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emagana#neutron: great team people!14:07
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armaxbefore we dive in to the next section14:07
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ajo\o/ :D14:07
* regXboi looks for the confetti14:08
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armaxI want to remind that we have revised some of our processes14:08
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armax#link http://docs.openstack.org/developer/neutron/policies/blueprints.html14:08
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armax#link http://docs.openstack.org/developer/neutron/policies/bugs.html14:08
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armaxplease familiarize yourself with them and evangelize the gospel to your proselytes14:09
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ihrachysaye My Lord14:10
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ajoack :)14:10
emaganaarmax: wise words!14:10
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* mestery kneels before the processes14:10
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mesterySeriously, nice work on cleaning all this up armax.14:11
armaxmestery: hopefully it’ll make a difference14:11
mesteryarmax: ++14:11
armaxin fact, this brings me to the next section14:11
armaxof the meeting14:11
* regXboi wakes up14:11
armax#topic Blueprints14:11
*** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: networking)"14:11
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armaxregXboi: not yet ;)14:11
armaxbut please do14:11
armax#link https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/mitaka-114:12
armaxwe have  some blueprints optmistically targeted for M114:12
armaxwhich is roughly a month and half away14:12
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Sam-I-Amnice to see linuxbridge in the list :)14:12
armaxone of the process changes we identified was to identify an approver per blueprint14:13
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Sam-I-AmregXboi: where's your dvr-fix-all-the-things? :)14:13
armaxthe approver will pair up with the assignee of the blueprint to work closely together to get the blueprint throught the motions14:13
regXboiSam-I-Am: you think I'm crazy enough to add a BP? :)14:13
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Sam-I-AmregXboi: you're crazy enough to dvr14:13
armaxSam-I-Am: that’ll happen14:13
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regXboiSam-I-Am: no, that's just lunacy :)14:13
armaxSam-I-Am: we only need to tackle regXboi into a corner14:14
Sam-I-Amchallenge accepted14:14
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ihrachysarmax: how do we assign ourselves?14:14
armaxnow…most of the M1 blueprints have no approver14:14
armaxand some may even need the assignee to be revised14:14
armaxihrachys: as an approver?14:14
ihrachysarmax: yes. I don't have the option to assign myself in LP14:15
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* regXboi has seen evidence of assignee revision already14:15
ihrachysI would take that one https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/ml2-lb-ratelimit-support14:15
armaxihrachys: done14:15
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armaxihrachys: only members of the neutron-drivers team can14:15
armax#link https://launchpad.net/~neutron-drivers14:15
Sam-I-Amihrachys: hey there :)14:16
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ihrachysarmax: aye. I believe I need to get into gerrit group for that. :)14:16
Sam-I-Amihrachys: these things will need some docs14:16
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rossella_sarmax https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/restructure-l2-agent should also be targeted for M1, right?14:16
ihrachysSam-I-Am: define 'these things'14:16
emaganaSam-I-Am: +214:16
armaxrossella_s: let me make a note for it14:16
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mesteryrossella_s: +1 to that14:16
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ihrachysSam-I-Am: ok, sure. let's touch bases later out of meeting context.14:17
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salv-orlandoarmax: only members of the neutron-drivers team can assign people to blueprints?14:17
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armaxrossella_s: who do you think could be a good approver for the work?14:17
armaxsalv-orlando: it’s my understanding, yes14:17
rossella_sarmax, I think yamamoto could be a good approver, he reviewed most of the patches already14:17
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armaxrossella_s: ok, yamamoto you around?14:18
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salv-orlandoarmax: it must be one of those policies that I have not read ;) Sounds a bit too restrictive to me, but I also understand why it's being doner14:18
yamamotoi'm not sure what's approver's job14:18
armaxyamamoto: can you pair up with rossella_s blueprint on restructure l2 agent ?14:18
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armaxyamamoto: please review the policy change above14:18
* ajo needs to review those too14:18
armaxyamamoto: if you are still in doubt come and talk to me14:18
armaxsalv-orlando: feedback is welcome14:19
armaxsalv-orlando: if you keep it to yourself it’s hardly useful14:19
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armaxsalv-orlando: besides if you haven’t read it, how can you claim that it is restrictive :)?14:19
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armaxthere are a few other blueprints that need a custiodian angel14:20
yamamotoarmax: i got it.  please assign me.14:20
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armaxanother word for approver :)14:20
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armaxtoday I feel very religious for no obvious reason14:21
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* Sam-I-Am backs away slowly14:21
armaxSam-I-Am: don’t be shy14:21
Sam-I-Amthis explains a lot of neutron things14:21
* regXboi wonders if armax is taking the crusade14:21
armaxI’ll go over the current backlog and preaching people to join the mass14:22
armaxhow about taht?14:22
* Sam-I-Am preaches docs14:22
rossella_sarmax, I can take https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/vlan-aware-vms14:22
armaxyou want to take over as approver, correct?14:22
rossella_sarmax, yes, you were looking for approvers right? :P14:23
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armaxI need to see whether the code submitters are still around14:23
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gongyshI can be code submitter. :)14:24
armaxthis BP: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/get-me-a-network14:24
armaxdoes not have an approver14:24
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salv-orlandoarmax: re your last message referencing me... you know I have a long history of talking about stuff I know nothing about14:24
armaxwe need to pair up with haleyb14:24
Sam-I-Aman important one imo14:24
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Sam-I-Amat least from a usability and docs perspective :)14:25
* haleyb is listening14:25
armaxand this work has already languished for too long14:25
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armaxhaleyb: pls, scroll back a little14:25
armaxany takers for helping haleyb move this along?14:26
ihrachysre get-me-a-network, do we have patches up? why is it Slow progress?14:26
armaxihrachys: yes we do14:26
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armaxihrachys: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/233306/14:26
haleybihrachys: yes, initial patch, but needs work14:26
ihrachysthat will be a single patch?14:26
armaxmost likely it won’t14:26
armaxanyone interested?14:27
armaxrussellb: ? hint hint14:27
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Sam-I-Amshould assign sc68cal :)14:27
HenryGarmax: I can assist, maybe with russellb?14:27
mesteryarmax: I can volunteer to help move those along as well.14:27
ihrachysnot sure I should opt-in while I already have one, but if everyone is so shy or busy, I can consider it.14:27
ihrachysok cool, I step back14:27
mesterylol :)14:27
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salv-orlandoarmax: what roles do you need for this blueprint? reviewers, developers, nit-pickers?14:27
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armaxI think we should be ok so long as we keep the number of bps assigned to a few14:28
russellbwhat did i agree to14:28
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Sam-I-Amrussellb: all the things14:28
russellbcool, that works14:28
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armaxsalv-orlando: all of the above?14:28
haleybbuying first round at summit14:28
russellbok!  beers on me14:28
armaxsalv-orlando: mostly code-review14:28
armaxsalv-orlando: and make sure that any road blocker is flagged promptly14:28
Sam-I-Amblueprint assignments sound like fantasty football drafts14:29
armaxrussellb: thanks russellb14:29
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armaxobviously anyone should feel free to help14:29
russellbyeah, i can help with that post-summit probably14:29
russellbthis week is kind of nuts already14:29
salv-orlandoarmax: make sense. I can assist with reviews - I hope I still remember how this stuff works14:29
armaxsalv-orlando: any other blueprint you fell like taking?14:29
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armaxsalv-orlando: there are a few which have no approver14:29
Sam-I-Amarmax: should edgar and/or i somehow tag ourselves to track these bps from a docs perspective?14:29
Sam-I-Amthey shouldnt get completed without docs, imo14:30
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* ihrachys notes that would help if LP would show assigned approvers on the milestone page14:30
armaxihrachys: I think there’s a way14:30
armaxit’s not great14:30
armaxihrachys: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+assignments14:30
armax#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+assignments14:30
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ajoI see this one has no approver: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/vm-without-l3-address14:31
ajoI could watch over it14:31
armaxSam-I-Am: definitely, I would expect the approver to work with you to see where the doc gaps are14:31
carl_baldwinAny way to search for blueprints by approver (e.g. myself)?14:31
armaxajo: nice14:31
Sam-I-Amarmax: cool14:31
salv-orlandoarmax: I think I can assist with https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/address-scopes14:31
* carl_baldwin seeing any advanced search option for Bps14:32
carl_baldwin*net seeing14:32
ihrachyscarl_baldwin: f.e. https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~brian-haley/+specs?role=approver14:32
emaganaarmax: I found hard to believe that the plan of working closely by magic will work14:32
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carl_baldwinihrachys: Thanks!14:32
armaxemagana: we don’t know if we don’t try14:32
emaganaarmax: we need to have a plan to really enforce it.. otherwise Sam-I-Am and I will be just chasing people14:32
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armaxwe can talk about that in more detail offline14:33
emaganaarmax: We have been under this model for several releases.. Do not know really what is different this time..14:33
emaganaarmax: sounds good.14:33
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kevinbentonemagana: did you read the new details in the blueprint process?14:33
Sam-I-Amkeep me in the loop on that one14:33
armaxcarl_baldwin: btw the link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+assignments14:33
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emaganaSam-I-Am: yes!14:33
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armaxshows a huge list of bp's14:33
kevinbentonemagana: oh, for docs. I see14:34
emaganakevinbenton: yes!14:34
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salv-orlandoarmax: I still have not read those revised blueprint policies, but were you asking if I could be approver for some blueprint? If non-cores can be trusted in that role, I am ok for  taking care of the address scopes bp14:34
emaganakevinbenton: and yes again!  ;-)14:34
mesteryThat link has all the BPs I believe, right armax?14:34
armaxwhen we manage to cut it down to the bps only for the most recent series we should be able to have a better view of the workload14:34
armaxsalv-orlando: surely, you’re a trusted resource14:34
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armaxcurrently the address-scope one is assigned to carl_baldwin14:35
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armaxas approver I mean14:35
carl_baldwinsalv-orlando: core emeritus14:35
emaganacarl_baldwin: indeed!14:35
salv-orlandoarmax: it seems to me there's no approver there14:35
salv-orlandocarl_baldwin is the assignee14:36
armaxsalv-orlando: I must have removed it14:36
armaxsalv-orlando: ok we’re good14:36
armaxI’ll go over the list after the meeting and see if it’s sane14:36
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armaxand reach out to people for help14:36
armaxreach read as plea14:36
ajoI see this one needs a nova spec too: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/vm-without-l3-address14:36
ajoI have pointed it out so the authors make sure it's submitted before nova deadlines14:36
ajoyamahata__ ^14:37
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armaxajo: good point14:37
armaxok, let’s move on for now14:37
armaxwe’ll come back to this14:37
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armax#topic Bugs14:37
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* regXboi now wakes up14:37
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armaxregXboi: how did it go?14:38
regXboiI handed over the swatter to markmcclain yesterday14:38
armaxregXboi: ok14:38
armaxbugs are piling up14:38
armaxand that’s no surprise14:38
regXboiarmax: pretty well - the bug process docs *seem* to work14:38
ihrachyswere we systematic about triaging this week?14:38
armaxwe have some stats on the meeting wiki14:38
armax#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings#Bugs14:38
regXboiihrachys: there were a couple I had issues with and so left incomplete14:39
ajoare we an effective team?14:39
regXboiajo: that remains to be seen14:39
ajoregXboi: beware of the drone trying to kill you otherwise (oblivion)14:39
armaxwe managed to see and acknowledge most of the bugs14:39
armaxbut we don’t fix fast enough14:40
ihrachysalternatively, we don't review fast enough14:40
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regXboiI believe we are acknowledging - I think the next step is for folks to be looking at tags14:40
armaxihrachys: or we’re simply not good enough :)14:40
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regXboiand trying to push their tags forward14:41
ihrachysit's also worth excluding rfe bugs from the stats since they are kinda special14:41
armaxihrachys: fixes need too many rounds to get in the right shape14:41
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armaxihrachys: agreed14:41
regXboiihrachys: +114:41
armaxespecially this time of year14:41
gsagiemaybe next sprint/virtual sprint can be about bug fixing14:41
ihrachysexactly. and they don't get fixes in a week.14:41
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armaxI have captureed a couple of interesting links on the wiki page14:41
armax#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bugs?field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.tag=gate-failure14:42
armaxi.e. gate failures14:42
armaxconfirmed gate failures14:42
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armax#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bugs?field.tag=needs-attention14:42
armaxbugs that would need a second look14:42
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armaxa sheet of data pulled out of Launchpad:14:43
armaxthe latter should help doing better filtering in lieu of Launchpad capabilities14:43
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armaxwe have deputies for the next couple of weeks14:44
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armaxthanks to markmclain and mestery for stepping up14:44
armaxanything else?14:45
ihrachysI want to raise a bug14:45
ihrachyswe broke flat networking in L14:45
ihrachysthe fix is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/237586/14:45
armaxihrachys: ouch14:45
ihrachysamong other things, it breaks default RDO installer undercloud that uses flat14:45
claudiubI'm also having trouble with VLAN networking in L.14:45
ihrachysbut anyway. there is one thing about it14:46
ajoarmax, add me after mestery :)14:46
ihrachyswe have two fixes on the bug14:46
mesteryihrachys: I'll target that bug to Liberty as well14:46
ajook, I can add myself, sorry, doing14:46
* carl_baldwin ready to step up and find a week, armax14:46
Sam-I-Amthe install guide uses flat, but its linuxbridge14:46
armaxI have seen this in the past14:46
Sam-I-Amthis is only ovs?14:46
armaxemagana looked into it too14:46
ihrachysthe one I posted is created today. I wonder whether it should have continued the original one.14:46
markmcclainarmax: sorry alert didn't fire this morning14:46
armaxbut we didn’t enough to go by14:46
ihrachysSam-I-Am: ovs only14:46
Sam-I-Amok, that explains why i didnt run into it14:47
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Sam-I-Amhappy to test if needed though14:47
armaxihrachys: I gather now we have a good understanding of the root cause?14:47
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armaxmarkmcclain: now worries14:47
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ihrachysarmax: yes. I have it in my brain I think. :)14:47
emaganalet me know if you need more testing as well14:47
armaxihrachys: ok cool14:47
ihrachysarmax: I also posted some comments on the original patch14:47
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Sam-I-Amihrachys: s/flat/vlan ?14:48
ihrachysso please review, and advice what we do with duplicates like that14:48
armaxihrachys: quick link?14:48
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ihrachysorgiinal patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/225001/14:48
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* ajo needs to run14:49
armaxihrachys: thanks!14:49
armaxanything else?14:49
carl_baldwinihrachys: fwiw, I thought your comments on the new patch were very appropriate.  +114:50
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Sam-I-Amthere's no gating of flat networks?14:51
armaxihrachys: but is it okay to place an unknown vlan tag with 0?14:51
armaxihrachys: that’s the part that puzzles me14:51
armaxpatch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/237586/ doesn’t seem to do that14:51
kevinbentonSam-I-Am: there's no gating of any networks14:51
ihrachysarmax: that's smth I need to think more. In theory, 0 is no vlan tag, but it may have differences in how it flows in ovs agent.14:51
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armaxso the last one seems the better fix?14:51
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kevinbentonSam-I-Am: without multinode at least14:51
Sam-I-Amtypically an untagged vlan has no vlan id14:52
ihrachysyes, 237586 seems more safe14:52
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ihrachysSam-I-Am: apparently no gating14:52
armaxihrachys: so we should supersed 22500114:52
* gongysh feel bad Liberty breaks the flat mode.14:52
Sam-I-Amkevinbenton ihrachys we should talk about these things14:52
ihrachysSam-I-Am: or maybe it's because it's done only on agent start, and we don't restart it in gate14:52
armaxihrachys: do we know the breaking commit?14:52
Sam-I-Amihrachys: oh, interesting14:53
ihrachysarmax: yes, it's ryu support one I think14:53
ihrachysit was mentioned in the bug14:53
armaxihrachys: ok, I haven’t gone through the comments yet14:53
armaxihrachys: let’s circle back on this quickly I guess14:53
ihrachysthe breaking one: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/153946/14:54
kevinbentonLiberty may have also messed up VLAN networks as per claudiub's bug14:54
ihrachysaye, out of meeting14:54
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ihrachyswow. nice work folks14:54
amullerkevinbenton: I don't think so, we have a fullstack connectivity test that uses VLANs14:54
ihrachyskevinbenton: link?14:54
armaxthat was bound to break something!14:54
amullerthat tends to pass14:54
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claudiubihrachys: https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/150777614:54
openstackLaunchpad bug 1507776 in neutron "Wrong OVS flows created for new networks" [Undecided,New]14:54
ihrachysamuller: afaik claudiub is interested in ovs on hyper-v, maybe that's what we don't gate ;)14:55
armaxthis must be it: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/153946/136/neutron/plugins/ml2/drivers/openvswitch/agent/ovs_neutron_agent.py14:55
claudiubihrachys: actually, this wasn't run with ovs on hyper-v14:55
Sam-I-Amarmax: heh, i think so14:55
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Sam-I-Amsuch a small change :)14:55
claudiubihrachys: classic ovs-agent + neutron-hyperv-agent14:55
armaxyamamoto: any input?14:56
ihrachysclaudiub: which platform under ovs?14:56
claudiububuntu 14.0414:56
amulleris this a bug in the OVS agent or not? Why would the nova hypervisor matter14:56
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armaxok, let’s continue bug conversation in channel14:56
claudiubthe hypervisor doesn't matter14:56
claudiubI've stated in the bug message that, if the neutron-ovs-agent is restarted, the flows are recreated properly14:57
armaxwe got 4 minutes left14:57
Sam-I-Amyep :/14:57
claudiuband the traffic is ok14:57
emaganaarmax: need to leave.. another meeting waiting in the schedule..14:57
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Sam-I-Amarmax: i have 1 docs request14:57
ihrachysarmax: I believe we'll need to handle open agenda in #neutron14:57
Sam-I-Amwell, many, but one for here :)14:57
armaxemagana: ok…let’s continue the conversation in channel for now and in person next week for the folks who are going to be in tokyo14:57
armaxSam-I-Am: shoot14:58
kevinbentonamuller: how does full stack simulate two connected agents via a physical interface?14:58
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Sam-I-Amright now, the networking guide scenarios with L3 only support attaching VMs to private networks14:58
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Sam-I-Ami've seen interest in hybrid implementations that allow connection to both public/provider and private networks14:58
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Sam-I-Ami'm wondering if i should add this capability to the existing scenarios, or make new hybrid scenarios14:59
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yamamotoarmax: i don't remember the specific change.  i'll take a look tomorrow.14:59
Sam-I-Amthe former is easier, but makes them a little more complex14:59
armaxyamamoto: thanks!14:59
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amullerkevinbenton: this diagram explains what it simulates: http://docs.openstack.org/developer/neutron/devref/fullstack_testing.html14:59
armaxSam-I-Am: sounds sensible14:59
Sam-I-Amthe latter is duplicating a lot of information, but generally reduces complexity14:59
armaxok folks14:59
Sam-I-Amlooking for opinions so i can get crankin14:59
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armaxI am afraid we gotta cut this abruptly14:59
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neiljerramSam-I-Am: sounds interesting, happy to help review14:59
Sam-I-Amover to -neutron :)14:59
emaganaSam-I-Am: let's move the discussion to the neutron channel14:59
armaxlet’s continue in #openstack-neutron, for those who can14:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:00
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openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct 20 15:00:00 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-10-20-14.00.html15:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-10-20-14.00.txt15:00
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openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2015/networking.2015-10-20-14.00.log.html15:00
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* mestery waits for the drivers meeting to start15:02
* carl_baldwin too15:03
davidshaThought I might have been in the wrong irc for a minute :)15:03
armaxhi folks15:03
* mestery waves at armax 15:03
armaxbit of a context switch15:03
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armax#startmeeting neutron_drivers15:04
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct 20 15:04:22 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is armax. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:04
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:04
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_drivers'15:04
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armaxso amotoki and dougwig are not with us15:05
* mestery mourns them both15:05
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armaxso I gather it’s just mestery, kevinbenton and carl_baldwin and me from the neutron drivers team15:05
armaxmestery: oh boy15:05
armaxthat’s not what I meant15:05
* regXboi wanders in to listen15:05
mesteryI know :)15:05
neiljerrami;m here too15:05
armaxneiljerram: hi15:05
neiljerramalthough obviously not driving :-)15:06
cloudonalso me, from the TelcoWG, as I have an RFE which may come up15:06
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armaxok, let’s see if we can wrap up the existing ones in flight15:06
* HenryG lurks too15:06
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armaxbug #146836615:07
openstackbug 1468366 in neutron "RFE - Logging API for security group and firewall rules" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1468366 - Assigned to Yushiro FURUKAWA (y-furukawa-2)15:07
kevinbentonI haven't had a chance to review that one15:08
regXboikevinbenton: the spec continues to have issues15:09
mesteryLAst time I looked at this one, it had serious issues15:09
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kevinbentonLast time I had looked it was around logging destinations. Is that still the case?15:10
mesterykevinbenton: Right, that's what I recall as well15:10
armaxcarl_baldwin: did you look into that one?15:10
carl_baldwinarmax: not in a while15:10
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* carl_baldwin noticing that the specs are both abandoned15:10
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armaxI guess that boils down to allowing proper auditing of security groups15:11
armaxand firewall rules15:11
regXboicarl_baldwin: ?15:11
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regXboiwhat about https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20350915:11
armaxif we break this down into two separate efforts15:11
armaxI wonder if that has higher chances of success15:11
mesteryarmax: Maybe that's how it can be succesfull is breaking it down15:11
mesteryBecause as it stands, it seems unlikely15:11
carl_baldwinregXboi: Oops, missed that one.  It must have been the extra stuff around it meant to call attention to it.15:11
armaxthe idea of logging for audit reasons seems sensible to me15:11
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armaxok let me provide some feedback on this one and see where we go15:12
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armaxbug 150138015:12
openstackbug 1501380 in neutron "Evolution of options and features in neutron-db-manage" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/150138015:12
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armaxHenryG: did you get a chance to elaborate more what you’re after?15:12
HenryGI removed the rfe tag from bug #1501380. I may create individual bugs for the issues identified.15:13
armaxHenryG: ok fair enough15:13
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armaxbug #149986415:13
openstackbug 1499864 in neutron "Fullstack infrastructure as a developer multi-node deployment tool" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/149986415:13
armaxthis one I looked15:13
armaxI am not sure if anyone is interested in doing the work, furthermore I see a lot of overlap with other tools15:14
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carl_baldwinSounds a little like devstack light.15:15
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armaxI don’t see anyone taking this on15:15
armaxamuller reported it but I don’t see he being the approver15:16
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armaxand I don’t see an assignee stepping up either15:16
armaxI would be tempted to reject this for now15:16
mesteryDoesn't that kind of replicate devstack?15:16
mesteryWouldn't it be better to look at utilizing something like Kolla instead?15:16
mesteryJust some thoughts15:16
armaxit’s slightly different15:16
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armaxas this is for modeling testing scenarios15:17
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armaxthrough a declarative model15:17
armaxdevstack…I don’t even know what is15:17
armaxa pile of bash15:17
kevinbentonIf amuller wanted to push it, I wouldn't be apposed15:17
armaxkevinbenton: me neither15:17
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armaxbut for lack of resources I can’t see this happen any time soon15:18
mestery++, me either15:18
carl_baldwinTo be honest, I don’t see myself using it.15:18
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armaxok, I’ll provide feedback15:18
armaxbug 145889015:18
openstackbug 1458890 in neutron "Add segment support to Neutron" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145889015:18
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armaxI suspect we want this to happen one way or another…we still need to figure out how15:19
mesteryarmax: That one is old!15:19
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mesteryThe operators want this one15:19
mesterycarl_baldwin: This is backed by your routed network work, correct?15:19
carl_baldwinWe have a good portion of a design session for this.15:19
carl_baldwinmestery: Yes.15:19
armaxso it’s full blown spec process etc.15:19
carl_baldwinarmax: yes15:19
kevinbentonChange the title of that!15:19
armaxmestery: you mean bug 1472704?15:19
openstackbug 1472704 in neutron "Support networks that work through routing instead of bridging" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1472704 - Assigned to Neil Jerram (neil-jerram)15:20
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mesteryarmax: Seems like a duplicate15:20
mesterycarl_baldwin: Agree?15:20
carl_baldwinI’m going to break my spec down.  Start with something more directly targetted at this rfe.15:20
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neiljerramNo, not - sadly I hadn't prepared a quick statement of why!15:20
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mesterylol, no worries neiljerram15:20
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mesteryneiljerram: You just want to break the core tenant that networks are L2-reachable, right? ;)15:21
mesteryNothing big there15:21
kevinbentonFirst spec is about limited l2 domains15:21
neiljerramBut carl_baldwin, would you say that your model change spec is trying to address 1472704 as well?15:21
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armaxif we can help it15:21
kevinbentonNeil wants no L2 domains15:21
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neiljerrammestery: Yes.15:21
armaxlet’s try to keep the two separate15:21
mesteryI think breaking that part of the model will prove difficult, but what do I know. :)15:22
carl_baldwinneiljerram: No.15:22
neiljerramI want something like a network, but that only provides IP reachability15:22
carl_baldwinneiljerram: But, we should talk about it soon.15:22
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neiljerramcarl_baldwin: Yes.  So possibly I should work on a separate spec for my use case.15:22
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armaxneiljerram: I am still unclear about what’s required here15:23
armaxneiljerram: some of the patches referenced in the devref merged etc15:23
armaxneiljerram: what changes are you after to enable your use case?15:23
neiljerramshall I try to explain now?15:23
armaxneiljerram: probably not15:23
armaxneiljerram: if you could give us an update based on the last events that happened in liberty15:24
neiljerramI commented today in the bug, in response to your query - did you get a chance to read that15:24
armaxthat would be good15:24
armaxneiljerram: I’ll go over it15:24
armaxby the end of today15:24
armaxnext bug15:24
armaxbug 147573615:24
openstackbug 1475736 in neutron "Add instrumentation to Neutron" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1475736 - Assigned to Ryan Moats (rmoats)15:24
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regXboiarmax: you wrapped this into a previous blueprint?15:25
vikram /quit15:25
armaxregXboi: I saw there was a blueprint registered15:25
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armaxregXboi: and I tied it to this one15:25
regXboiarmax: no worries - just wanted to understand the thinking15:25
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armaxregXboi: I think we all agree we may want to get an insight into a neutron system15:26
armaxat the moment we have nothing15:26
armaxI am not personally convinced we need to favor one protocol over another15:27
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armaxfor carrying out these stats from the platform to whoever is doing the monitoring15:27
regXboiI owe an update to the devref, which is trying to get to that point15:27
armaxregXboi: so perhaps revisit the bug report description first?15:28
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regXboiarmax: I can do that when I do the devref update15:28
armaxregXboi: ok15:29
armaxregXboi: ETA?15:29
regXboiby COB this week15:29
armaxregXboi: ok15:29
regXboiyou'll have it before the summit15:29
armaxmestery: we usually have this meeting wrapped in 30 mins?15:29
armaxor it’s the full blown hour?15:29
armaxI don’t recall15:29
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kevinbentonHour and a half to 315:29
mesteryLets close this thing down15:29
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mesteryI could use the extra 30 minutes myself ;)15:29
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armaxlet’s wrap up then15:31
armaxI have enough on my plate after these two past meetings to go by for a week :)15:31
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mesterythanks armax15:31
armaxif you guys can have a look at the NEW bugs15:31
neiljerramthanks all15:32
mesteryNew RFE bugs?15:32
* mestery loks now15:32
mesteryarmax: We think alike ;)15:32
armaxlet’s have a first pass offline15:32
armaxmestery: I suppose15:32
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cloudonif anyone wants to ask about https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1506076 I'm your man15:32
openstackLaunchpad bug 1506076 in neutron "Allow connection tracking to be disabled per-port" [Wishlist,Confirmed]15:32
armaxand we’ll come back to the list of CONFIRMED bugs next  week15:32
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armaxcloudon: either offline, or next week15:33
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armaxthanks folks15:33
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:33
openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct 20 15:33:34 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:33
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2015/neutron_drivers.2015-10-20-15.04.html15:33
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2015/neutron_drivers.2015-10-20-15.04.txt15:33
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2015/neutron_drivers.2015-10-20-15.04.log.html15:33
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stevemar_keystoners assemble!18:00
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shalehwhat were we just talking about?18:00
stevemar_shaleh: nothing yet!18:01
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stevemar_ping ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, ericksonsantos, geoffarnold, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, joesavak, lbragstad, lhcheng, marekd, morganfainberg, nkinder, raildo, rharwood, rodrigods, roxanaghe, samueldmq, stevemar, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong, claudiub18:01
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marekdstevemar_: o/18:01
shalehstevemar_: you said stoners assemble. That is the official stoner greeting.18:01
stevemar_if you want your name added to the ping list: update the wiki https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting18:01
stevemar_shaleh: hehe18:01
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gyeeo/      \       /         -----18:02
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lbragstadstevemar_ o/18:02
samueldmqhello all o/18:02
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stevemar_there we go18:02
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stevemar_dstanek is going to be late18:03
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stevemar_not much on the agenda today18:03
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stevemar_#startmeeting keystone18:03
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct 20 18:03:29 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is stevemar_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:03
henrynash(slinks in late)18:03
stevemar_agenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting18:03
stevemar_henrynash: hey! o/18:03
stevemar_#topic What's up with keystoneauth-integration feature branch in python-keystoneclient?18:04
*** openstack changes topic to "What's up with keystoneauth-integration feature branch in python-keystoneclient? (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:04
stevemar_bknudson: all you bud18:04
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bknudsonwhat's up with keystoneauth-integration?18:04
bknudsonthere's reviews posted to it.18:04
stevemar_morgan: jamielennox?18:04
jamielennoxit was supposed to be removed in favour of a ksc v2 branch18:05
jamielennoxthe powers that be said we shouldn't do a v2 branch and do it all on master18:05
bknudsonok, so we're dropping it?18:05
bknudsonI think we should have a 2.0 branch18:05
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jamielennoxi do too18:05
bknudsonotherwise we might wind up releasing half a 2.0 or not being able to release.18:05
stevemar_a 2.0.0 branch makes sense to me18:05
jamielennoxyea, dropping it. it was for when ksc 1 was going to have a dependency on ksa. we're not doing that anymore18:06
stevemar_we can remove a whole bunch of crap from there and iterate faster18:06
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dolphm#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/python-keystoneclient+branch:feature/keystoneauth_integration,n,z18:06
jamielennoxwell apparently the reason was that we should do it in master and that way the gate would enforce everything worked18:06
jamielennoxwhich just doesn't work because no-one else will pick it up until we put it on pypi18:07
bknudsonas far as I can tell there's no way to tell if we're breaking stuff when we remove things18:07
stevemar_so how can we, right ^18:07
bknudsonotherwise the gate wouldn't break all the time when releases are done18:08
dolphmbknudson: things = branches?18:08
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bknudsondolphm: in this case it's things = functionality in keystoneclient18:08
stevemar_there are surprisingly few open patches in KSC18:08
jamielennoxso i think this is going to be a really difficult transition however we do it18:08
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jamielennoxwe can't bump reqs project by project18:08
jamielennoxwe can't test against the git repo without adding new jobs to each project we're working on18:09
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bknudsonwe know keystone will break since it's using deprecated ksc function.18:09
bknudsonanyways, this has gotten a bit off topic. I was just wondering about keystoneauth-integration and I got my answer.18:10
jamielennoxlol - and even keystone is doing it wrong :)18:10
stevemar_bknudson: there isn't much on the agenda, we can discuss this if it's beneficial18:10
bknudsonI'm going to -2 everything in there.18:10
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jamielennoxthere's only i think one patch which was really proposed against the integration branch (off the top of my head) that i feel bad about because we told them to propose it there rather than master18:11
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jamielennoxi think it was doug-fish ?18:11
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bknudsonand then I guess work with infra to get rid of the branch18:12
stevemar_jamielennox: probably18:12
doug-fishyeah could be. I'll get over it for sure.18:12
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bknudsonare the changes proposed to get ksc using ksa?18:12
stevemar_bknudson: nope; https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/python-keystoneclient+status:open,n,z18:13
jamielennoxbknudson: there were a few of those merged, but if we're going down the 2.0 path it's going to be easier to rip and replace than try and do a compatible dependency18:13
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bknudsonI think we need to do a compatible dependency otherwise there's no way to upgrade.18:13
jamielennoxso the big change with 2.0 will obviously be removing everything from Client.__init__ in favour or session/adapter18:14
roxanaghe_what about this one: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/215261/ I was told to put it on that branch because it was too risky for master..?18:14
bknudsonroxanaghe_: that will go in the 2.0 branch if we make one18:15
roxanaghe_bknudson, ok..18:15
jamielennoxbeyond that there are a couple of changes, but they're to like AccessInfo.create and stuff that i doubt will affect most people and it's an easy swap to the new function18:15
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jamielennoxroxanaghe_: ah, that's the one i meant that we pushed to the integration branch18:16
morganbknudson: removing the branch is easy18:16
morganbknudson: just have stevemar_ ask the release team / infra.18:16
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stevemar_morgan: cool, i'll ask them after the meeting18:16
morganbknudson: and -2 isn't needed on anything in that branch, it should all go away when the branch is deleted18:17
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jamielennoxroxanaghe_: sorry about that, but it will happen in v218:17
bknudsonmorgan: it shouldn't be needed but I keep seeing people reviewing changes in there.18:17
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roxanaghe_jamielennox: no worries, I can submit that again when we have a new branch18:18
stevemar_bknudson: hopefully we can have it removed quickly18:18
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stevemar_looks like we still have some work to do in this area18:18
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jamielennoxstevemar_: so maybe we need a new decision on the v2 branch whilst you're dealing with that18:18
stevemar_jamielennox: a v2 branch sounds like the right move to me18:19
bknudsonmy vote is for a 2.0 branch18:19
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stevemar_i want to do a rip and replace, but i know it won't fly18:19
jamielennoxi mean either we get a v2 branch or we have to fork a 1.x branch for compatibility - either way is esentially the same thing18:19
morganwe could do a ksc2 project18:19
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morganin pypi / elsewhere18:19
bknudsonthen propose all the deprecated function removals you want to 2.0 branch18:19
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morganand do a "Freeze" on current ksc18:20
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bknudsonOther projects aren't going to have an easy time switching from ksc1 to ksc2 if we're breaking everything.18:20
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shalehwas a reasonable argument made against the 2.0 branch?18:21
morganbknudson: we're going to have a hard time removing anything from ksc118:21
stevemar_morgan: python-keystoneclient2 ?18:21
bknudsonthis is why semver says you only remove deprecated function18:21
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jamielennoxbknudson: the problem is going to be mainly all the people that are using exactly what we want to deprecate18:21
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jamielennoxand remove18:21
morganbknudson: and we know how well we've done with semver in openstack18:21
dolphmintroducing backwards incompatible changes will never foster adoption18:21
jamielennoxshaleh: i think the point was that if we did it in master then the gate would enforce we only did things that other projects could cope with18:21
morganstevemar_: i'd drop "python" from it18:21
bknudsonit's all marked as deprecated now. The openstack policy is 6 months to move off.18:21
jamielennoxshaleh: which is not something i buy18:22
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morganexcept the client libs are used outside of openstack and will likely break people and make the end users very cranky18:22
shalehjamielennox: the gate runs the project's unit tests and what else?18:22
jamielennoxright, assuming that we are going to catch every use of keystoneclient is ridiculous18:23
bknudsonwe can continue to support the 1.0 branch and do releases, just no new function.18:23
morganbknudson: the issue is the same thing we hit with upstream libs18:23
morganbknudson: they change something and release the "same" project and it breaks everything18:23
jamielennoxshaleh: it runs functional test as well, but for everything except the unit test it uses the library version released on pypi - so it's not going to test this stuff anyway18:23
bknudsonevery user will have to cap <2.018:23
morgani'm just playing devils advocate18:23
morgani don't really care how we get to 2.018:23
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morganbranch, new project, etc18:24
stevemar_if the choice is between a new project (keystoneclient2) or a branch, i think i'd prefer a new project18:24
morganthe only reason I think a new project *may* make sense is the split of middleware and session18:24
morganif it was strictly crud interfaces18:24
bknudsonthe branch is optional, it just makes it easier to do the reviews18:24
morgani'd say I don't care as much18:24
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morganand a new version of 2.0 would be a lot less impactful18:25
bknudsonwe could put all of the removals in 1 patch, too.18:25
stevemar_bknudson: jamie already did that18:25
jamielennoxideally i'd prefer not to do a new project. we're not the first project to try and remove stuff from client, but we are depended upon by a lot of people18:25
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stevemar_so we'll just have a bunch of folks using <2.0.018:26
morganjamielennox: and we're def. unwinding that issue (it's still all auth related)18:26
dolphmwhy do we need a v2 client, exactly?18:26
ayoungI think the only thi8ng critical to remove from client is the CLI functionality.  Programmatic changes are easier to shim18:26
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morganayoung: auth/session and CLi - the auth stuff is the reason things are so interdependant18:26
jamielennoxbknudson: i did some testing with this a while ago https://github.com/jamielennox/python-keystoneclient/tree/v2 is where i was pushing patches18:26
bknudsondolphm: there's a lot of function that's deprecated in ksc and it would be nice to get rid of it.18:27
bknudsonsince it's technical debt now18:27
dolphmso delete it all at once and version bump - why worry about a new branch / new repo to do that?18:27
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jamielennoxthere's like a couple of layers of maintaining compatibility because everyone would use ksc for auth then reach in and grab tokens and other info18:27
morgandolphm: because the ripple effect breaking everything that didn't properly cap <2.018:28
bknudsondolphm: it's just a lot of code so it would be easier to review in smaller patches.18:28
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ayoungmorgan, I think there is a distinction worth making.  With package dependencies, yeah, we would like them to move ahed, but the general workflow, what is avaialble, is the same (if duplicated) where as with CLI, we are talking different workflow and scripting.  It is, I think the CLI usage that is holding us back, far more than anything programmatic18:28
morgandolphm: and ^ what bknudson said18:28
dolphmbut we don't have those patches to review today anyone?18:28
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morganayoung: I'd argue that auth is as big a hold back as the CLI in this case18:28
jamielennoxdolphm:  i'll essentially drop https://github.com/jamielennox/python-keystoneclient/tree/v2 into review18:29
ayoungmorgan, with KSC we can still move them to the 3.0 AOPI.  CLI does not allow that18:29
ayoungbut we should p[lan it all, so I'm not really arguing against18:29
ayoungjust prioritizing18:29
dolphmjamielennox: i don't know what the diff there is18:29
stevemar_dolphm: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/221596/18:30
jamielennoxdolphm: the last 8 patches of history starting with "remove cli"18:30
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shalehif a new version of ksc is released it will break everyone who has not already put an explicit <2.0 in their requirements, right?18:30
bknudsonwe need to at least get keystone not using deprecated ksc stuff.18:30
morganshaleh: yes.18:30
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bknudsonI assume auth_token is using deprecated stuff, too.18:30
morganbknudson: likely.18:30
morganbknudson: but that can be fixed with moving to ksa18:30
morganbknudson: and should be much easier18:30
dolphmour we worried about breaking openstack projects with a 2.0 release, or third party projects?18:30
morgandolphm: both18:31
shaleh3rd party are a big deal here18:31
bknudsonsure, but somebody's got to do it.18:31
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ayoungwhat are we talking about removing exactly here?18:31
bknudsonshaleh: it won't break anyone unless they're using deprecated function.18:31
dolphmsolving openstack projects is easy. you're not going to avoid breaking third party projects any further if there's already proper deprecations and version bumps happening18:31
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jamielennoxayoung: the CLI, creating clients with username= etc, bunch of compatibility things like getting project_id from the ksc Client object18:32
morganbknudson: it should mostly be drop in on the auth_token front18:32
morganthat is about as easy as the other client libs that just do auth18:32
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morganmostly minimal a different import18:32
jamielennoxyea, auth_token is fine - and if not it's something we have control over18:32
jamielennoxhopefully i can finish this auth_token in front of keystone soon and we won't need like the cms options in ksc either18:33
morganjamielennox: we should just move cms to middleware anyway18:33
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morganjamielennox: keystone already depends on ksm18:33
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jamielennoxoh, then yes18:33
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ayoungKC never claimed to validate tokens.  If needs be, we can drop CMS.  Needs to stay available to middleware until PKI tokens are dropeed18:34
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shalehlooking at the changes, auth is a likely point of failure and it is a pretty straightforward change for the developer. This should be safe enough to release.18:35
shalehwe could make an announcement or two, get it out there so people know it is coming.18:36
ayoungSo have we at a minimum deprecated everything we want to remove long enough ago such that we are within the letter of the law in removing?18:36
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mordredI would recommend getting people off of ksc completely before removing anything - letter of law notwithstanding18:37
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jamielennoxmordred: how do we make that list18:37
mordredjamielennox: http://hound.openstack.org/?q=keystoneclient&i=nope&files=&repos= is a good start18:38
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mordredalthough that's out of date because we haven't restarted hound since doing the renames18:38
* dstanek is here now18:38
ayoungmordred, my question still stands18:39
stevemar_dstanek: o/18:39
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ayoungWe need to get people moving.  We can say 'We'lgrant a repreive if you ask' but we are not going and changing every single project out ther18:39
mordredayoung: I do not know. of course, I'm more in favor of openstack never deprecating anyting ever again because it just moves the complexity to the end user18:39
mordredso I might not be the right person to ask18:39
stevemar_mordred: why am i just learning about http://hound.openstack.org/ now?18:40
ayoungBut, we can't even remove it if we did not deprecate it.18:40
mordredstevemar_: it's not a live service yet18:40
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jamielennoxwow, i thought our problem would be session, there's still a lot of instances of keystoneclient.auth_token18:40
jamielennoxstevemar_: me too18:40
marekdand me18:40
* mordred is going to start changing all of the openstack porjects18:40
mordredhas started with neutronclient18:40
mordredis doing novaclient and glanceclient next18:40
shalehjamielennox: but this is all solvable with direct effort and quickly enough.18:41
mordredbecause someone needs to do the work, and because I want them all to support keystone v3 and clouds.yaml sooner rather than later18:41
mordredand I think getting them on to ksa is the quicketst way to do that18:41
shalehmordred: ++ for clouds.yaml18:41
jamielennoxshaleh: i mean the code will still work, it's a matter of finding it and getting people to fix it - and the deprecation warnings have necessarily done that18:41
mordredonce that's done, I'd argue that caring about the functionality in ksc is a thing that is less important18:42
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jamielennoxi think the realistic path for M is to deprecate all the Session stuff in ksc in favour of KSA18:42
jamielennoxand spend the cycle moving everyone across to ksa18:42
ayoungSo...when did we deprecate this functionality?18:42
ayoungWas it 1 year ago?18:42
mordredjamielennox: ++18:43
jamielennoxayoung: ksc.Session hasn't been because it's only been available since ksa release but it's just s/keystoneclient/keystoneauht there18:43
ayoungjamielennox, ++  If things are not yet deprecated, first thing is to deprecate.18:43
bknudsonthe keystone CLI was deprecated earlier than all the username, etc. parameters.18:43
ayoungWe can work on a punchlist of what needs to be fixed after we'18:43
ayoungve got the official path forward documented18:43
david8hua wiki page to keep track of things...18:44
shalehsounds like a reasonable plan of action18:44
jamielennoxright and we would need to document this and everything, i'd be impressed if we were even in a position where people would accept this this cycle18:44
mordredjamielennox: which bit? the move to ksa? or the deprecation?18:44
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stevemar_we need to cut this in about 5 minutes18:44
jamielennoxmordred: removing all deprecated stuff from ksc18:44
shalehthe changes are small, we could even propose the fixes if needed18:44
jamielennoxin favour of ksa18:45
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mordredjamielennox: I agree. I do not think that will fly this cycle18:45
mordredjamielennox: I think deprecating this cycle will18:45
mordredjamielennox: and getting projects moved to ksa this cycle will18:45
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bknudsonsounds like we're saying spend the effort on migrating other projects to ksa rather than removing function18:46
bknudsonexcept for the keystone CLI?18:46
mordreddoes osc support keystone v2 catalog?18:46
jamielennoxbknudson: it's hung around this long, we'd have to major version to drop it18:46
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stevemar_mordred: yeppers18:46
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mordredgreat. then I do not personally care if it goes away :)18:46
bknudsonmight be handy to have an etherpad to track the work on other projects.18:46
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mordredbknudson: ++18:47
bknudsonor a cross-project spec?18:47
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morganbknudson: maybe. might be useful, might also just be in the range of "file a bug"18:47
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bknudsony, cross-project spec seems like overkill especially since they don't seem to carry any weight.18:47
morgandon't know if this is really a "spec" but more a "bug" and fix code. ksa isn't a huge departure from ksc session18:47
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morganand everyone should be on ksc.session already18:48
ayoungok... anything else we need to discuss, or wait until next week?18:48
jamielennoxbut ok, i'll do a big bug and tag projects as i find it18:48
morganayoung: in Tokyo!18:48
samueldmqmorgan: ++ a bug worked well when we proposed everyone to use the graduated oslo.policy (https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1458945)18:48
openstackLaunchpad bug 1458945 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "Use graduated oslo.policy instead of oslo-incubator code" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Jeffrey Zhang (jeffrey4l)18:48
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samueldmqwhich included a ton of projects18:48
dstaneki just wanted to thank everyone for bugday - i think it went rather well18:49
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morganjamielennox: I'd say make sure to call it out as a relatively minor change in the bug18:49
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bknudsonwe should get some docs in ksc or ksa for how to make the change.18:49
morganjamielennox: so when the question of "why this isn't a spec" comes up we can point at the bug and say "we have already outlined the minimal impact"18:49
morganbknudson: I'd vote in ksa18:49
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dstanekfor those of you that don't follow me on twitter: bit.ly/1MMuAqC18:50
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stevemar_#topic Office Hours (bugday)18:50
*** openstack changes topic to "Office Hours (bugday) (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:50
stevemar_(sorry about the late topic change)18:50
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dstaneki jumped the gun :-)18:51
stevemar_it's all good18:51
dstanekyou can see that we had a rather large spike in overall activity18:51
stevemar_it was pretty successful18:51
stevemar_#link http://dstanek.com/keystone-bugday/2015-10-16/index.html18:51
dstanekat tokyo i want to talk with the people that participated and see what else we can do or what we can do differently18:51
stevemar_lots of invalid and inprogress marks!18:52
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stevemar_dstanek: doing another one this friday?18:52
mordredmorgan: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/236712/ btw - re: cross-project specs. it's about occ, but it implies ksa18:52
* morgan nods18:52
dstanekthe first graph shows 3 spikes. the first two are automation marking things as fix released18:52
dstanekstevemar_: yes18:52
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shalehas I mentioned on the list, a solid bug scrub/update is in oder18:52
dstaneki'll update the etherpad after this meeting18:52
shalehit is confusing what the state of the bugs are18:52
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shalehthere are half finished conversations, claims of things being implemented in one release or another, etc.18:53
dstanekshaleh: that is what we were doing on Friday and hope to do every Friday18:53
stevemar_shaleh: yeah, that's the point, getting the bug list to something sensible18:54
shalehdstanek: excellent. I have gone bug trolling once or twice and stopped because I was having problems identifying actual work to do18:54
jamielennoxdstanek: i really like that plan, i'm not sure timezones will work out for me though18:54
morganshaleh: a couple times over the cycles I've done a massive bug reconsiliation/cleanup/closeout. this is waaaaay better to have a consistent friday event18:54
shalehmorgan: ++18:54
morganjamielennox: just do it on your friday :)18:54
jamielennoxmorgan: what if there's then nothing left for the other people? :p18:54
marekdjamielennox: i think dstanek would like to cover all timezones and make ithat Friday last 24 or more hours :-)18:54
morganjamielennox: then you're clearly the winner!18:55
dstanekjamielennox: technically it's Friday UTC so feel free to work on bugs during that time!18:55
dstanekmarekd: ++18:55
stevemar_i can help with late evening thursday :)18:55
stevemar_and catch some early friday morning folks18:55
gyeeI only celebrate new year on all timezones18:55
marekdgyee: in your private jet18:55
shalehlooking forward to joining the bug party in two weeks after the Summit.18:55
gyeeone bottle per timezone18:55
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stevemar_friday contributor meetup can partly be a bug squash day in tokyo :)18:57
lbragstad++ that's a good idea18:57
shalehBTW, talking about bugs. The definition of "triaged" is not matching my expectation. I am accustomed to that term meaning the bug has been investigated, verified, and assigned a priority/release candidate.18:57
stevemar_shaleh: that's what it should be18:57
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shalehthe online doc says triaged has a patch on it18:58
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shalehwhich means ignore triaged bugs18:58
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bknudson#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/BugTriage18:58
stevemar_one last topic18:58
stevemar_#project liasons18:58
stevemar_#topic project liasons18:58
*** openstack changes topic to "project liasons (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:58
stevemar_if you don't know what they are: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CrossProjectLiaisons18:58
stevemar_#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CrossProjectLiaisons18:58
stevemar_let me know if you want to me one, poke me on -keystone18:58
stevemar_that's it!18:58
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stevemar_last few seconds18:59
shaleh"If the bug contains the solution, or a patch, set the bug status to Triaged"18:59
bknudsonand if someone else wants to be oslo liaison then pony up.18:59
stevemar_bknudson: it's a turf war now18:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"18:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct 20 18:59:39 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-10-20-18.03.html18:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-10-20-18.03.txt18:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-10-20-18.03.log.html18:59
stevemar_infra-vengers, assemble!18:59
* mordred assembles things18:59
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shalehstevemar_: ^^ doc says Triaged is for bugs with solutions19:00
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fungiinfra team: assemble!19:00
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stevemar_mordred: you've already assembled a team19:01
anteayastevemar_: yay!!!!!19:01
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anteayastevemar_: yay us, yay!!!!19:01
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stevemar_anteaya: *phew*19:02
fungistevemar_: touché19:02
fungi#startmeeting infra19:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct 20 19:02:08 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:02
anteayastevemar_: yeah, no kidding19:02
fungi#topic Announcements19:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)"19:02
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fungii think lots of people are travelling this week, so while i'm happy to hold a meeting, be aware we're short at least a few council members and there's unlikely to be much of importance decided19:03
fungi#topic Actions from last meeting19:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
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fungioh, our agenda! i almost forgot to link it19:03
fungi#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting19:04
fungino idea where my head is today, clearly not here though19:04
fungiand as for the last meeting's minutes...19:04
fungi#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-10-13-19.01.html19:04
fungithe only action item we had was:19:04
fungizaro send a discussion starter to the openstack-dev mailing list for feedback on Gerrit 2.1119:05
anteayathat happened19:05
fungi#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-October/076962.html19:05
zarohey, i think we can say that everybody looks forward to 2.1119:05
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fungiit's been a lively discussion too. some mix of excitement and armchair development of gerrit 2.12 ;)19:05
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anteayazaro: I got that feeling19:05
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fungianyway, let's not dwell on the action item other than to thank zaro: he's up momentarily with updates on it in the priority efforts portion of the meeting anyway19:06
fungibut thanks for starting that zaro!19:06
jasondotstarzaro: +119:06
fungi#topic Specs approval19:06
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)"19:06
fungi#info Approved: StoryBoard Worklists and Boards spec19:06
fungi#link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/storyboard_worklists_boards.html19:07
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fungilooking forward to talking about storyboard and its possible futures at the summit19:07
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fungiwe seem to have no proposed specs for today's agenda, which is just as well since we probably shouldn't vote on more until we summit next week19:07
fungi#topic Priority Efforts: Gerrit upgrade19:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts: Gerrit upgrade (Meeting topic: infra)"19:08
fungi#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/test-gerrit-2.1119:08
fungizaro's been a busy bee19:08
fungianything we need to know about this before we have our sessions next week, zaro?19:09
zaroahh yes,.19:09
zarogerrit upgrade is a thing again. #link https://review.openstack.org/23770119:09
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zarothese were the items i had slated for testing:  #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/test-gerrit-2.1119:09
anteayaI have a point here19:10
zaroit's mostly working as expected, just need to test these following things: gerritlib, zuul pipelines, manage projects and migration.19:10
anteayalast time we upgraded we needed to give some folks  4 weeks heads up to change ip things in firewalls19:10
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anteayado we need that again this time, if so can we give them the ip addresses now?19:10
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fungianteaya: that's been when replacing servers (like for an distro upgrade)19:10
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anteayafungi: ah okay thanks19:11
fungiwe don't necessarily need to do a side-by-side upgrade for this one19:11
zaroI'm a bit concerned with regards to fiasco last time so i'm wondering if we need to have a rollback script before trying again?19:11
anteayaso we don't need to distro upgrade again19:11
anteayaokay thanks19:11
fungithough that's certainly worth discussing as we get closer to a maintenance19:11
anteayasure I just didn't want to agree to a time and then have to wait another few weeks19:11
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zaroI also attempted a migration of prod data yesterday.  done on my local laptop but it was way too slow.19:11
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fungizaro: a start to a rollback script wouldn't hurt. most of it was really mordred unwinding the db migrations (including some implicit migrations)19:12
zarotook all nigth and only got thru ~600 projects out of ~78019:12
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zarofungi: i'll look at it but might need some help with that.19:12
zaronow i'm planning to try the migration again with a beefy 12cpu VM.19:13
anteayayay, I hope you have better results19:13
zaro16 GB ram19:13
anteayazaro: let's make notes there?19:13
fungizaro: as for a proper migration test, it's reasonable to backup the review-dev db/repos, and then place them with the redacted prod copies and see what sort of timeframe we're looking at on a more representative system19:13
fungihaving a timeframe estimate would be great before jumping into a maintenance19:13
anteayazaro: in an etherpad about what resouces you use for a successful migration19:13
zarofungi: yeah, i was planning to capture time as well19:14
anteayazaro: so if 12cpu and 16 GB ram work19:14
zaroi'm guessing that the VM flavor i picked is representivite of what we have for review.o.o19:14
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fungizaro: checking now19:15
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zaroalthough i plan to use local mysql19:15
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fungizaro: we're using 7 vcpus and 30gb ram19:15
fungier, 8 vcpus19:15
zarocool, close enough i guess.19:15
zarothough 7 was kina odd19:16
fungiit's next to the 8 ;)19:16
zaroanyways that's all for now.19:16
fungiokay, anything else urgent on this? we have a fairly full agenda19:16
fungithanks zaro!19:16
fungiwe'll get into more details in person next week too19:16
zaroahh yeah, priority effort topic is 'gerrit-upgrade'19:17
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fungi#topic Priority Efforts: Maniphest (craige / ruagair)19:17
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts: Maniphest (craige / ruagair) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:17
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/23580219:17
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ruagairNot much more to add beyond my update in the agenda.19:18
fungiwhat's blocking you on this ruagair? or just a quick status update?19:18
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fungiso you've got a test instance running, you've gotten the migration script working, snf you're futzing with auth now (cauth?)19:18
ruagairCurrently bnutting out a Phsbricator auto configuration issue19:18
fungigot it19:19
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ruagairyou can experience it at os01.mcwhirter.io19:19
ruagairany eyes or thoughts welcome.19:20
fungi#link http://os01.mcwhirter.io/19:20
fungiokay, well we've got a task tracking fishbowl slot in tokyo next week if you're going to be there, and if not we'll get some additional details19:20
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fungithanks for working on this!19:20
tchaypoWas the plan to use a plugin in front of phabricator to redirect to the opened provider and get auth info from it?19:20
fungi#topic Stackforge namespace retirement19:20
zaroruagair: not much to experience there19:21
*** openstack changes topic to "Stackforge namespace retirement (Meeting topic: infra)"19:21
ruagairI'm there for those sessions.19:21
zaroruagair: it says auth failure19:21
fungijust a reminder that we did complete the stackforge namespace retirement maintenance over the weekend19:21
fungithanks to everyone who was involved!19:21
ruagairyes zero :-)19:21
fungiAJaeger has a couple cleanup patches proposed but it's basically behind us now19:21
tchaypoExperience the failure (of phabricator, not stackforge)19:22
fungithere was one straggler repo which will need to get moved in a future rename maintenance19:22
fungiit's on the renames list in the agenda already but needs a project-config change proposed to do the actual renaming19:22
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anteayakevinbenton: ^^19:22
anteayaI'll work with kevinbenton to get it into shape19:23
anteayaand I'm sure AJaeger will too19:23
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fungithanks again for a smooth maintenance, everyone19:23
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* AJaeger doubts that thre's anything to do after anteaya helped ;)19:23
fungiit went surprisingly quickly given the hundreds of repositories involved19:23
zarowhy the straggler?19:23
anteayaAJaeger: ha ha ha19:23
fungizaro: the maintainers of the repo misread the announcements19:24
anteayazaro: I don't even, I"m so...19:24
anteayaI even asked in -neutron on the wednesday prior19:24
kevinbentonhere is the project-config change https://review.openstack.org/23775319:24
anteayakevinbenton: thank you19:24
kevinbentoni was copycatting so i'm not sure if it's correct19:25
fungianything else on the stackforge namespace retirement? anyone aware of anything that got missed or issues which have cropped up since?19:25
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zarowe planning to move openstack-infra projects too?19:25
anteayazaro: oh please no19:25
zaroor i mean do we have plan to19:25
anteayaI have a hard time finding what I want now19:25
AJaegerzaro, there's little move from openstack-infra to openstack, so no need IMHO19:25
fungii don't think so at this stage. it would likely be a lot more disruptive to all the other projects if we did19:25
anteayazaro: I have no plan to19:26
zarook, just wondering19:26
anteayazaro: yup, fair19:26
fungiand the stackforge namespace retirement work was driven by a specific technical committee resolution19:26
fungiokay, moving on19:26
fungi#topic Summit planning19:26
*** openstack changes topic to "Summit planning (Meeting topic: infra)"19:26
fungias i mentioned on the ml(s), the schedule is up19:27
fungi#link http://mitakadesignsummit.sched.org/type/Infrastructure19:27
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fungithis is down to the wire, but if you happen to spot any _serious_ schedule conflicts i didn't take into account, please speak up asap19:27
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fungii'm working on getting the etherpads for them fleshed out and will add them to the schedule and to the etherpads list on the wiki within the next day or two19:28
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fungianyone have any burning questions or issues related to our summit planning?19:29
zarolooks good19:30
funginote that the work session names are generic intentionally (for all tracks, not just infra's) to deter random walk-ins19:30
fungiso you need to hover or click them to see which ones are which19:30
anteayaif you can bother to click, chances are higher you will get something from the session19:30
anteayaand have something to contribute19:31
fungialso clarkb had some good tips about the print view working well for custom schedules19:31
anteayaoh I missed those19:32
fungino idea if he's around at the moment19:32
anteayawas it in channel?19:32
anteayaI'll find them19:32
fungii don't think he mentioned them in public, no19:32
fungii'm just putting him on the spot if he's around, or at least crediting him19:32
nibalizerim proxy for clarkb19:33
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anteayanibalizer: what are the tips?19:33
fungianyway, there's a little printer icon up in the top right there19:33
nibalizer"if you click print in sched.org, there is a persobal schedule pribtout"19:33
anteayanibalizer: cool, thank you19:33
anteayanibalizer: thanks clarkb19:34
fungii'm going to print mine and bring it with me, because we're not guaranteed there will be paper schedules available at the venue (i know, we ask for it every year, but paper is scarce or something)19:34
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fungi(in seriousness, the organizers already to an awesome job and i can understand how paper schedules might be a little tough to squeeze in on our short scheduling timeline)19:35
anteayafungi: yes, I can see that19:35
anteayaawesome work organizers19:35
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fungiso anyway, bringing a paper backup is good since we've had sched.org reachability/outage issues or even general conference network issues regularly in the past19:35
* zaro loves paper19:35
anteayazaro: ha ha ha19:36
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anteayaor if they think we are all ddosing the site19:36
fungiit might not be completely up to date if someone tweaks something at the last minute, so prefer the electronic version if you have access, but paper is still handy19:36
anteayaah memories of hong kong19:36
ruagairno ical exports?19:36
fungimemories of just about every venue until vancouver honestly. that was the first time our networks and schedule access have been really, really solid19:37
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fungiruagair: i think the smart phone app might do that? not sure19:37
anteayafungi: yay vancouver19:37
ruagairit did in Paris19:37
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fungiinteresting. i'll ask my more foundationy cohorts19:37
mordredhey all - back online - what did I miss?19:37
fungimordred: just the meeting ;)19:38
fungiyour requested topic is up next actually. i put it at the end19:38
anteayamordred: oh and zaro something something gerrit db migration rollback plan19:38
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mordredyes. we should hav eone of those19:39
anteayamordred: he'd like your help19:39
mordredbecause we had to come up with one suddenly last time19:39
mordredI would like to help19:39
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fungicool. okay, i think we're as prepped on the summit scheduling topic as can be, so i'll move on to the last item on the agenda19:39
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fungi#topic Release the Hound! (mordred, taron)19:39
*** openstack changes topic to "Release the Hound! (mordred, taron) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:39
taronoh hello19:39
zaromordred: yeah, was wondering how you cobbled that together so quickly last time.19:40
fungimordred: so what's all this then?19:40
anteayataron: hey!19:40
mordredso I dropped a hound link into the keystone meeting as an answer to a question19:40
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mordredand then people were like "zomg what's that??"19:40
anteayamordred: ha ha ha19:40
mordredwhich made me think "we should make it a thing"19:40
stevemar_mordred: can you blame us?19:40
taronit is quite shiny19:40
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mordredand I notiecd it still had a bunch of stackforges in it19:40
* AJaeger loves hound19:40
mordredso maybe we need to restart something post rename19:40
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anteayamordred: yes, it doesn't self update on renames19:40
taronI still haven't figured out why the config.json is still causing puppet to complain19:40
mordredwhich I htin we agreed would be ok from a process perspective19:40
mordredso - my questions are ... should we consider the current one "live"?19:41
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anteayawhich is the current one?19:41
mordredand shoudl we restart hound so that it picks up the renames?19:41
taroncurrent one is hound.o.o19:41
taronwhich does not run my puppet, but that can be changed once I've sorted the config issue19:41
anteayaif taht is waht it takes to pick up the renames, yes19:41
fungimordred: the current one is not puppeting according to puppetboard, so i don't consider it live19:41
mordredah. kk19:41
anteayayeah, I'm not a fan of what mordred is running19:41
anteayait isn't current with code in git.o.o19:42
mordredso we're still waiting to roll out taron's puppet19:42
anteayamordred: no offense19:42
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anteayaI am waiting19:42
mordredno  me neither19:42
fungialso, it would be nice to rebuild it from scratch at least once more to make sure the deployment config management is doing the right thing19:42
anteayathe issue was a failing test taron was debugging19:42
taronno idea what's going on with my puppet, so I'm going to spin up a test vm and see what happens19:42
anteayataron: do ask for help19:42
anteayataron: so that you don't stay blocked19:42
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anteayataron: I was looking for you to ask, but I never saw you in channel19:42
mordredI nominate nibalizer to help if it goes south ... I hear he understands puppet19:43
* mordred is excited19:43
taronha, I was just about to poke him19:43
anteayataron: keep coming back to channel, please19:43
taronI never leave :P19:43
anteayataron: good thank you19:43
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anteayataron: I'm looking forward to us running your code19:43
* mordred hands nibalizer and taron some parts of a very nice salmon19:43
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taronnibalizer: I shall have some questions about how resources work later19:44
nibalizersure thing19:44
fungii always have questions about how resources work19:44
taronprobably write them down and then poke you on thursday19:44
anteayataron: etherpad?19:44
anteayataron: then we can all look19:44
tarongood point19:44
fungior just a code review even19:44
fungisometimes code is the best means of communicating these things19:45
fungiwhatever works for you19:45
* taron nods19:45
fungianything else hound-related?19:45
anteayaeven psuedocode19:45
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anteayathen folks can comment in line19:45
taroncome to think of it I don't have anything to do at work at the moment, so I'll start drawing that up now19:45
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anteayataron: okay great19:46
fungiyour job sounds like mine! ;)19:46
anteayataron: thank you19:46
fungithey never give me anything to do, so i just hack on openstack instead19:46
mordredthat's all I had19:46
fungi#topic Open discussion19:46
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)"19:46
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fungiheads up, i'll be absent (in body, not just mind for a change!) for nearly two weeks in the middle of next month. call it november 12-2319:47
anteayafungi: nice19:47
anteayafungi: I hope you are schduling fun things19:47
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fungiyeah, messing around in boats19:48
nibalizerfungi: sweet19:48
fungiyucatan coast (southern mex and central-am)19:48
nibalizerhave fun19:48
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anteayaoh I like it down there19:48
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anteayathe mex part, never been to the central-am part19:48
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anteayathat does sound like fun19:49
fungii expect so19:49
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fungiinternet access is pricey on the ship, so i expect to hack offline on some personal projects and as such won't be around19:50
anteayafungi: good call19:50
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anteayafungi: are you deputizing anyone in case of needing to make a decison on anything while you are away?19:50
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ianwa request for any nodepoolers -> moving f22 nodes to fedora-minimal builds : https://review.openstack.org/23738919:51
anteayaor shall we do our best to devine your will?19:51
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ianwtihs will help me getting f22 up and f21 gone...19:51
fungii think my will is your will, so you can all get by without me19:51
anteayafungi: okey dokey19:51
zarowould be nice to get ball rolling with Gerrit 2.11 builds, just need this patch series https://review.openstack.org/#/c/23601019:52
fungii doubt things are going to be crazy a couple weeks after the summit anyway, so seemed like a good opportunity for some downtime19:52
anteayafungi: good call19:53
anteayafungi: if I can get enough folks together I might do the rename in your absence19:53
anteayafungi: I'm guessing you would be okay with that19:53
zaroahh, we had some discussion of planning a Gerrit cleanup which should happen before upgrade and happen seperate from the upgrade.19:53
fungimore than okay with it ;)19:53
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anteayafungi: heh19:53
zaroshould we leave that for another meeting?19:53
anteayazaro: we have a few minutes19:54
anteayazaro: what gerrit cleanup?19:54
fungizaro: yeah, we can talk about it now and/or in our channel, and/or in tokyo19:54
fungianteaya: some ancient cruft from older renames/deletions years back19:54
zaroanteaya: gerrit git folder and db are out of sync19:54
anteayaah okay cool19:54
nibalizeranteaya: before our project rename procedure was good we left cruft in the db19:54
fungibefore i think we had entirely nailed down what's involved19:55
anteayazaro: okey dokey19:55
anteayanibalizer: yup, getting the picture19:55
anteayado we need downtime for the cleanup?19:55
anteayahow about when the renames are scheduled?19:55
zaroanteaya: yes, but minimal19:55
anteayathere are only 319:55
anteayaso 3 renames and gerrit cleanup in a gerrit downtime window a few weeks after summit19:56
fungiit'll likely be quick: 1 stop gerrit, 2. backup database, 3. run cleanup query, 4. reindex lucene, 5. start gerrit and test to make sure it's okay19:56
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zarofungi: ugh! always forget the reindex.19:56
zarothat might be slowish19:56
fungiit might make sense to not mix the cleanup with the rename maintenance just in case something goes wrong and we need to roll back19:56
anteayafungi: ah okay, yeah that would make sense19:57
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zaroi'll have an good esitmate from my testing though19:57
fungithanks zaro!19:58
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fungiwell, if nobody's got anything else, i'll go ahead and close the meeting19:59
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anteayathank you19:59
fungiall -> #openstack-infra19:59
zaroyes sir19:59
fungithanks again everybody!20:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct 20 20:00:06 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-10-20-19.02.html20:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-10-20-19.02.txt20:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-10-20-19.02.log.html20:00
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fungifyi: if anyone's around expecting a tc meeting, i believe the tc is on hiatus until after the summit (next two weeks)20:00
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david-lylewhat is this congress?!?20:01
fungiEmilienM: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting looks empty. are you going to cancel?20:01
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EmilienMfungi: I was about to send an email20:01
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fungiEmilienM: excellent! i'll take this opportunity to go out to eat ;)20:02
EmilienMfungi: enjoy your meal20:02
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fungithanks EmilienM! enjoy your non-chairing20:05
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EmilienMfungi: lol.20:06
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nikhilEmilienM: meeting?21:01
EmilienMyup, see ML21:01
jungleboyjOkie Dokie.21:01
PietQuick ask before you leave?21:01
nikhiloops, i must have missed it21:02
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PietThe OpenStack UX team is having a meeting at the summit to plan research for the next six months.  Please plan to attend if you need help understanding your users or want to test something.  https://mitakadesignsummit.sched.org/event/acd92f2da4a41f940a4fc95131786908#.ViRRsRCrRTY21:03
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nikhilthanks Piet, I know some21:04
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nikhilfwding to the right channel21:04
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PietThanks nikhil!  I appreciate the help with this stuff!  BTW - the etherpad is https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/tokyo-ux-research21:08
nikhilawesome, noted21:08
nikhilduly :)21:08
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