Monday, 2015-11-16

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aspiersnext meeting in 3 minutes is regarding HA: automated recovery from hypervisor failure08:57
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openstackaspiers: Error: A meeting name is required, e.g., '#startmeeting Marketing Committee'08:59
aspiersah, the manual is wrong :)09:00
aspiers#startmeeting HA: automated recovery from hypervisor failure09:00
openstackMeeting started Mon Nov 16 09:00:26 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is aspiers. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.09:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: HA: automated recovery from hypervisor failure)"09:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ha__automated_recovery_from_hypervisor_failure'09:00
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aspiersHi all, and welcome to the (first ever?) official IRC meeting about OpenStack HA!09:01
masahitohi o/09:01
ddejahi \o09:01
aspiershere is the etherpad we will be referring to:
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aspiersthis meeting was arranged off the back of discussions in Tokyo on hypervisor HA09:02
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aspierswe have a few existing approaches within the community, and we were interested in trying to converge on one09:02
aspiersthe etherpad lists all known existing approaches, plus some ideas on new approaches09:03
bogdandoand probably put it in the HA guide as recommended :)09:03
aspiersexactly :)09:03
aspiersI think today we only have 30 mins or so, so I don't expect us to reach a complete plan for convergence :)09:03
aspiersalthough if that happens I will not complain ;)09:03
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aspiersbut it's more about setting a general direction for how work should continue09:04
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aspiersshould I give a very brief history for those who are new to this area?09:04
_gryfaspiers, pleas, do :)09:05
aspiersOK. The first approach on the etherpad (masakari) is from NTT and has some very nice features.09:05
aspiers The second was born out of conversations between Red Hat and Intel, and has a similar design.09:06
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aspiersThe third was originally by Red Hat, and also used by SUSE.  This one exposed some weaknesses in the design which the other two are trying to address.09:06
beekhofok, i'm here too09:06
aspiersMainly the unreliability of evacution09:07
beekhoftoo many channels :)09:07
beekhofwhat are we talking about?09:07
aspiershey beekhof :) you didn't miss much but I guess you can catch up via the logs on the web09:07
aspiersI'm just summarising status quo for benefit of newcomers09:07
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aspiersthen we have an entirely different approach from AWcloud and ChinaMobile which was presented in Tokyo09:08
aspiersit has some good ideas which a best of breed solution should probably incorporate09:08
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aspiersbut it is fundamentally different (Pacemaker not used)09:08
beekhofChinaMobile was tristack?09:08
bogdandocould we define the evacuation term more precise? in terms of fencing as well. Is it just STONITH the host hypervisor node and relaunch instances another place, which would be like a reboot from the instances pov?09:08
aspiersso I guess it is impossible to converge with that codebase09:09
bogdandoor is it live migration?09:09
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aspiersit is not live migration09:09
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aspiersso we have a problem with terminology unfortunately09:09
aspiersa long time ago the nova project chose the misnomer "evacuate"09:09
_gryfbogdando, evacuation is basically rebuilding vm on another host. it's post mortem process09:09
beekhofat the point a compute node is dead - there is nowhere to live migrate from09:09
aspiersexactly. it's really "resurrect" not "evacuate"09:09
bogdandookay, so it is like a reboot for its apps09:10
aspiersin Vancouver it was proposed to fix this naming by renaming to resurrect09:10
bogdandowell in the guide that would be just a notem so everything would be clear09:10
aspiersbut since then nothing has happened, and I spoke to Dan Smith about it who said he was -1.99 on the rename due to the impact09:10
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aspiersso it's unlikely to happen any time soon09:10
aspiersso yes, we'll just have to be clear what we mean, especially in docs09:11
bogdandonot a problem, just to be on the same page here09:11
aspiersbogdando: thanks for the clarification, I had forgotten to mention that :)09:11
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bogdandoit seems all methods are about pacemaker09:12
_gryfbogdando, not really09:12
bogdandoand I like it personally. But do we make a R&D around its fancy alternatives?09:12
bogdandodo we want to*?09:13
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aspiersthat's a good question09:13
aspierswhat alternatives are there?09:13
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aspiersBTW I suspect most people in this meeting want to stick with Pacemaker but we can put it to the vote for sure09:13
bogdandonote, we probably may want to sync with a DLM initiative09:13
beekhofkeepalived is about all (from a high level view, not the instance HA part)09:14
bogdandoif they decided to stick with zookeper or etcd or consul09:14
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aspiersthe AWcloud/ChinaMobile approach uses consul/raft/gossip09:14
bogdandoso to keep ops less frustrated it would be nice we to use the same solution09:14
oomichiandreaf: it was easy to rename BaseComputeTest to BaseV2ComputeTest due to number of lines09:14
aspiersfrankly, moving away from Pacemaker would be too much rework for SUSE09:14
beekhoffwiw, i spent most of the day starting to pull in a lot of the content from into the ha-guide09:15
aspiersso it's pretty unlikely we'd do that09:15
bogdandojust to not introduce yet another control plane09:15
* oomichi sorry for interuppting.09:15
beekhofredhat is staying with pacemaker too09:15
aspiersalso the upstream HA guide is already Pacemaker-based09:16
aspiersand so is Masakari09:16
masahitoNTT also pant to use pacemaker.09:16
bogdandoyes, pacemaker is a part of ref. arch already09:16
aspiersof course anyone is free to do R&D around other technologies at any time09:17
beekhofeveryone is entitled to their opinions, as long as they understand they are wrong :)09:17
aspierslol :)09:17
bogdandoand make sure it would be not diverge from the control plane /distributed consensus solution picked by the DLM initiative, I'd say09:18
aspiersgiven that 1) we already have a very good platform based on Pacemaker and 2) we are pretty confident we can implement solid hypervisor HA on top of it, I'm not sure it makes much sense for us to research other options09:18
aspiersunless it's to steal ideas :)09:18
bogdandoI mean ops would barely be happy to see pacemaker and consul and zookeper in one deploy09:18
aspiersbogdando: agreed09:19
aspiersone cluster manager is enough :)09:19
bogdandolet's push pacemaker to the DLM topic! :)09:19
bogdandosorry for offtopic09:19
aspiersso are we agreed to stick with Pacemaker for now?09:20
bogdandoIt seems so09:20
beekhofwell i'm not going to say no09:21
aspiers#agreed hypervisor HA solution will be based on Pacemaker09:21
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aspiersso, most obvious path to me is to converge masakari with evacuationd09:21
_gryfaspiers, how about mistral solution?09:21
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aspiersNova{Compute,Evacuate} RAs work fine with known limitations, but are kind of a dead end, right?09:21
aspiers_gryf: oh yes, sorry I forgot about that09:22
bogdandonote, there is kilometers of bash, would it be a maintainable well solution?09:22
bogdandoI mean masakari09:22
aspiersbogdando: IIRC both masakari and evacuationd are Python?09:22
bogdandowe may want the bats tests at least, may be09:22
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bogdandowell, as I understood from the repo, it is pure bash?09:23
aspiersI am strongly in favour of the solution being mainly in Python09:23
_gryfevacuationd is in pure python09:23
aspiersbogdando: ah, I didn't look at the code yet09:23
aspiersno, masakari has a bunch of Python09:23
aspiers73.5% according to github09:23
bogdandoI like bash, but we should care of unit tests as well09:23
bogdandohm, ok then09:23
masahitoOnly masakari's RAs are basing on bash. Masakari's controller is written Python.09:24
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aspiersI think both Masakari and evacuationD do a pretty good job of using standard OpenStack tech09:24
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beekhofbogdando: most pacemaker agents are written in bash.  they can be in python but miss out on the common library functions09:25
aspierstrue, although most RAs are very simple and quite short09:25
aspiersso bash is tolerable09:25
beekhofthats why you'd be seeing bash at all i imagine09:25
_gryfotoh openstack is mainly in python, so interacting with nova would have much more sense if we go into python09:26
bogdandoI'm not sure if it is restricted to the RA for mamsakari09:26
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beekhof_gryf: agreed09:26
bogdandobash for RA is acceptedd practice, agree09:27
bogdandobut for the rest?09:27
aspiersquestion for the Intel guys: how attached are you to evacuationd? e.g. would you be ok with the idea of switching to masakari and then porting over any features from evacuationd which it is missing?09:27
_gryfwe have no problem with deprecating evacuationd09:28
aspiersIIRC, masakari already persists to database which is nice. Does it use SQLalchemy? I can't remember09:29
beekhofis one clearly better than the other?09:29
aspiersthere are pros and cons to both09:29
masahitoMasakari use SQLalchemy to access DB.09:29
aspiersas listed in the etherpad09:29
aspiersI think the main thing which would need fixing with masakari is to port it to use pacemaker_remote09:29
aspiersso that it can scale09:30
aspierscurrently compute nodes are grouped into 16s09:30
bogdandoregarding masakari " corosync's scaling limits, compute nodes are grouped into  16-node clusters" why to not use pacemaker-remote?09:30
aspiersbut I doubt that would be hard09:30
beekhofi think that would be the first thing RH would want to change :)09:30
aspiersand SUSE :)09:30
beekhofmasahito: any problem there?09:30
bogdandoaspiers, oops, you was first09:31
masahitoI don't have any problem to change pacemaker remote.09:31
_gryfother than that, there would be a need for selecting certain vms for resurrecting - we already have that in evacuationd09:31
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beekhof_gryf: good point09:32
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aspiers_gryf: sounds nice, how would that work?09:32
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beekhofaspiers: atttribute on the instance in nova iirc09:32
_gryfwe had it implemented through the flavor extra specs and vm metadata09:32
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beekhof_gryf: did you get around to using a db for persistance in evacuationd?09:32
aspiersoh, you mean something a bit like availability zones?09:32
aspiers_gryf: e.g. selecting which VMs are pets vs. cattle?09:33
bogdandowhat about the MQ? Do masakari use it?09:33
_gryfbeekhof, we didn't made any changes due to discussion we had09:33
_gryfaspiers, right09:33
aspiersbogdando: I think they use HTTP requests09:33
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bogdandoshould we also keep in mind the Mistral alternative in the list? Looks like a high level coordintaion for masakari as well09:34
aspierswhat's the first action we could take regarding Mistral?09:34
bogdandohow wouldwe want to proceed with PoC?09:34
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aspiersI guess it's still in the R&D phase regarding hypervisor HA09:35
ddejaright now I'm working on POC using mistral that will auto evacuate VMs09:35
beekhof_gryf: how far off is that project from conceptually being able to support what we want?09:35
_gryfwe have this almost working :)09:35
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bogdandoddeja, would be nice to join your efforts09:35
bogdandoif possible09:35
aspiersddeja: perhaps you can give a quick summary of how that works and where you are with it?09:36
beekhofso do we park this thread until we hear how the mistral PoC went?09:36
bogdandoany action item then?09:36
ddejabogdando: no problem, I can share code on github09:36
aspiersbeekhof: I suggest we hear some details first before deciding09:36
aspiersyes please, github would be great09:36
aspiersddeja / _gryf: are you able to quickly summarise now?09:37
bogdandoaspiers, action item please?09:37
_gryfaspiers, yup09:37
_gryfso the idea is simple09:37
_gryfprepare small action class (in python)09:37
beekhofok, i need to head out guys (its my wedding anniversary and its getting late here)09:37
aspiers#action ddeja will share mistral PoC code on github09:38
_gryfplus the workflow (which is basically a yaml)09:38
beekhofi'll read up on the weblog though09:38
aspiersbeekhof: whoa, run before you get in trouble ;-) congrats and thanks for attending!09:38
_gryfand then proceed like with other solution - trigger it from pacemaker09:38
bogdandobeekhof, congrats!09:38
_gryfmistral would take care of the evacuation09:38
masahitobeekhof: congrats!09:38
ddeja_gryf: this action class is needed only for selecting which VM should be evacuated (so resolving pet vs cattle problem)09:38
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_gryfddeja, right, but it;s one of our assumption09:39
bogdandocould this also help us to build the solution with a solid logging for events?
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_gryfand the main point regarding mistral is, that it's a quite stable project now09:40
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aspiersthat sounds cool to me, looking forward to seeing more details09:40
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_gryfa soon we have the poc working, I'll make some more detailed description on the etherpad.09:41
aspiers#action _gryf will update the etherpad with more details of the mistral PoC09:42
aspiersso do we want to work in parallel on masakari / mistral, or hold off for a short while?09:43
bogdandoMy vote is for Mistral PoC as well09:43
aspiersmasakari has three levels of monitoring which is really nice - could mistral do that too?09:43
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aspiersand can mistral itself be made HA?09:44
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aspiersif not, how much work is that?09:44
aspiersobviously there's no point designing an HA system around a component which is a SPoF :)09:44
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aspiersjust trying to figure out what's likely in the short vs. long term09:44
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_gryfaspiers, we can make it to monitor - actually, we can make it through pacemaker09:45
_gryf*all 3 levels09:45
bogdandoI believe the HA based solution with pacemaker for Mistral would be the same as for the rest OpenStack projects09:45
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aspiersbogdando: so it's basically stateless?09:45
bogdandoA/P or A/A for multiple API instances, what else?09:45
aspiersall state in the DB I guess?09:46
bogdandodepends on if it is  stateless, yes09:46
_gryfregarding ha - there is a priority to make mistral HA in the mitaka cycle09:46
aspiersok cool09:46
bogdando_gryf, OCF_CHECK_LEVEL?09:47
bogdandoare we about those levels?09:47
bogdandowe could make as many of them as we want09:47
_gryfbogdando, look at the masakari project - there are 3 levels of failure check09:47
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_gryfvm, process (libvirt/compute) and host09:48
aspiersI'd like to know how much potential there is for convergence between Mistral PoC and Masakari, but maybe it's too early to discuss that and we should wait until more details of Mistral PoC first?09:48
aspierslike I said, I didn't expect us to solve everything in the first meeting ;-)09:48
_gryfaspiers, I would wait09:48
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bogdandoanyway we did not bad already :)09:49
aspiersright :)09:49
aspiersI think we can continue the architectural conversations on #openstack-ha and openstack-dev mailing list, right?09:49
_gryfaspiers, sure09:49
aspiers#openstack-ha is logged, so noone has to miss discussions09:50
aspiersalso, please make sure to include "[HA]" Subject: prefix for discussions on openstack-dev09:50
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aspiersttx configured mailman for this prefix so you can even do server-side filtering for that topic now09:50
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aspiersmasahito: once more details of Mistral PoC are released, would you be able to look at it and assess possibility of convergence?09:51
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masahitoaspiers: yes.09:52
aspiersgreat, thanks!09:52
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masahitoI think we would converge both as long term goal09:52
aspiersagreed :)09:52
masahitobtw, which do you all easy to push codes to Masakari using stackforge or github?09:52
aspiers#action masahito will investigate possibility of converging masakari with Mistral PoC, once details of the latter are published09:52
aspiersmasahito: I guess gerrit/stackforge is preferred09:53
_gryffor a poc level I think gh is alright09:53
aspierstrue, either works09:53
aspiersif we need to set anything up on gerrit, I can help with that09:54
_gryfthen, if we decide to go either way, gerrit/stackfroge will be a way :)09:54
aspiersI already went through that process for openstack-resource-agents so I know how to do it09:54
masahitoaspiers: great09:54
masahitoDo I start to move the repo to stackforge?09:55
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aspiersmasahito: also would you be able to investigate what work would be needed to switch masakari to pacemaker_remote?09:55
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masahitoaspiers: not yet. because we didn't try it.09:55
aspiersmasahito: I would guess no rush to move to stackforge yet, but of course you can if you want09:55
masahitoaspiers: meaning just think the idea, but not implementing.09:56
aspiersok, we are approaching the end of the 60 minutes09:56
masahitoaspiers: ok. I'll wait suitable time :)09:56
aspiersmasahito: right. if you have ideas on pacemaker_remote implementation then please share them on IRC or mailing list09:56
aspiersanybody want to raise anything else before we close?09:57
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aspiersotherwise let's continue on #openstack-ha and openstack-dev (with "[HA]" in Subject: line :)09:57
_gryfit was fruitfull meeting :) thx everyone :)09:57
aspiersyeah great first meeting, thanks a lot everyone!09:58
aspiers#agreed we'll continue discussion on #openstack-ha and openstack-dev (with "[HA]" in Subject: line :)09:58
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aspiersthanks everyone, see you same time/place next week!09:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"09:59
openstackMeeting ended Mon Nov 16 09:59:37 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)09:59
_gryfyup, bye!09:59
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boris-42#startmeeting Rally14:02
openstackMeeting started Mon Nov 16 14:02:03 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is boris-42. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Rally)"14:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'rally'14:02
boris-42ping andreykurilin ikhudoshyn  oanufriev rvasilets14:02
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boris-42#link meeting Agenda
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boris-42let's wait for a second for redixin14:04
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oanufriev__hi all14:04
boris-42#topic [redixin] Unsafe self.context usage by contexts. Any context may damage data of any other context.14:05
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*** openstack changes topic to "[redixin] Unsafe self.context usage by contexts. Any context may damage data of any other context. (Meeting topic: Rally)"14:05
boris-42it's not unsafe it's how it should be done and how rally works14:05
redixinnext topic14:05
boris-42redixin: ok14:05
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boris-42redixin: it's really nice because it allows you to connect data to specific object (in our case user or tenant)14:06
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boris-42redixin: otherwise all the stuff would look like a mess14:06
kun_huangis it unsafe because the same memory address of both?14:06
redixinthere a lot of code in context, like this" self.context["some_key"] = some_value14:06
boris-42kun_huang: redixin and what?14:06
redixinwhat if other context working with same key?14:07
kun_huangchange the value of that address14:07
amaretskiywe can make a class based on dict with freeze_key() method14:07
boris-42redixin: it will be wrong written borken context14:07
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boris-42we don't need that14:07
boris-42Most of OpenStack Context classes WON'T work14:08
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boris-42because they have specified for user resources14:08
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boris-42in other words we need to change what is inside ["users"] and ["tenants"] keys14:09
redixinso it is ok to do self.context["key"] = value? no setdefault or other checks?14:09
boris-42redixin: yep it is ok14:10
rvasiletsWe could check before and after context is it the same self.context14:10
rvasiletsif its needed14:10
boris-42rvasilets: it won't be the same whole GOAL of context class is to change self.context14:10
rvasiletsbefore setup() and after cleanup()14:10
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redixini just thought to propose some dict-like object for this purpose14:11
boris-42rvasilets: there is no requirements to change back self.conetxt14:11
rvasiletsofcause its bad in terms of persistence context14:11
rvasiletsWe could add such requirements)14:11
boris-42rvasilets: it's bad overall I don't know any of case where it will work14:12
boris-42rvasilets: why? just to make life harder?14:12
redixinlike self.context.push(key, value); self.context.pop(key)14:12
boris-42redixin: it's now always the key in first level14:12
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rvasiletsNo. I just try to support you discussion14:12
boris-42redixin: and it's not always such simple change14:12
boris-42rvasilets: like push(), pop() sometimes people want to "change"14:13
redixinokay. move on14:13
boris-42redixin: I really don't thing that we can do here anything...14:13
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boris-42Okay let's move to next topic14:15
boris-42#topic [amaretskiy] Proposal of improvements for scenario output format14:15
*** openstack changes topic to "[amaretskiy] Proposal of improvements for scenario output format (Meeting topic: Rally)"14:15
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amaretskiyThere is a feature wanted - we need task results format with improved output14:16
amaretskiyand spec is ready for review14:16
amaretskiyi will start implementing this immediately after spec is merged :)14:16
amaretskiyplease review14:16
amaretskiyeom :)14:16
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boris-42amaretskiy: okay we will take a look14:19
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boris-42amaretskiy: so I don't like the methods names14:20
boris-42amaretskiy: they are too long to remember14:20
boris-42amaretskiy: and it's interface14:20
boris-42so seems like it's bad interface14:20
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amaretskiyno problem, please give comments and we will go ahead14:21
boris-42add_complete_output and add_additive_output I would make 10 typos writing this14:21
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boris-42anybody else agree on this?14:21
boris-42redixin: kun_huang ^14:21
amaretskiyi thought that `add' and `output' should be in names14:21
kun_huangI'm not good at naming...14:22
amaretskiywe can have single method14:22
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amaretskiyor `set_output()' (set is better that add since we can call this only once)14:23
boris-42amaretskiy: set is bad14:23
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boris-42amaretskiy: because add allows you to call it many times14:24
boris-42amaretskiy: set is something that you would like to call once14:24
ikhudoshyn(additive=True) is definitely bad14:24
amaretskiyyes, current spec allows calling only once14:24
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boris-42amaretskiy: but why?14:25
ikhudoshynamaretskiy: i guess it allows calling only once per output14:25
amaretskiywhat is really important is how to make scenarios saving consistent output14:25
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boris-42amaretskiy: ikhudoshyn users should be able to call any amount of times each time adding one more graph14:25
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ikhudoshynboris-42: exactly14:26
boris-42amaretskiy: it is code if they don't have "if" or "e;lse" in code they will be equal14:26
amaretskiyfor example some scenario adds additive data for `foo_duration' twice14:26
amaretskiythis will draw 2 points on chart14:26
boris-42amaretskiy: rally can't gurantee that you won't shoot your head by gun14:26
boris-42amaretskiy: especially on level of plugins14:26
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amaretskiyin this case - yes, we can give full freedom to scenario14:27
ikhudoshynamaretskiy: that's exactly what I'd expect14:27
boris-42amaretskiy: it will be always possible to write wrong plugin because it is code14:27
amaretskiyactually it is hard (but possible) to check output of each scenario14:27
boris-42amaretskiy: and that is okay14:27
boris-42amaretskiy: it should add 2 graphs14:27
boris-42amaretskiy: he will run it and see that something is wrong and he will fix the code14:27
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boris-42amaretskiy: writing dummy protections in code on runtime doesn't seem like a good plan14:28
amaretskiyrunning add_* many times - agreed14:28
amaretskiybut what about naming?14:28
boris-42amaretskiy: naming is bad..14:28
amaretskiyno ideas14:28
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boris-42amaretskiy: I can't give a fast suggestion14:31
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amaretskiyi think we do not need fast decisions14:31
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boris-42so i believe we #ageed on maing it possilbe to call many times14:32
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boris-42Okay let's move to open disucssion14:32
boris-42#topic Open Disucssion14:32
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Disucssion (Meeting topic: Rally)"14:32
boris-42so anything to discuss?14:33
amaretskiynothing from mine14:33
oanufrievnothing for me14:33
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chenliI have a question, what scenario I can add to rally ,what I can't ?14:34
ikhudoshynI'd like to encourage everyone to take a look at distributed runner spec14:34
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boris-42chenli: basically you can add any of sceanrios14:35
boris-42chenli: currently rally is a bit hardcoded for OpenStack but I hope some days this will be fixed14:35
chenliboris-42, yes, that's true. then, what scenario would be accepted into rally branch ?14:36
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chenlifor example, recently I did a lot of test about ping.. we have many many instances in the cloud, we want to test the ping latency..14:36
chenliI might have a scenario by my own.14:36
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chenlican I also add this to rally master tree ?14:37
boris-42chenli: at least you can try14:37
boris-42chenli: we can add specialy context "existing_servers"14:37
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boris-42chenli: and have scenario that works only with this context14:37
boris-42chenli: like ping one14:37
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chenlithat sound's good.14:38
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boris-42so I think we covered all topics for today?14:40
boris-42anything else?14:40
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kun_huangboris-42: what about the plan of osprofiler? (is it okay to talk about it here?)14:42
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boris-42kun_huang: yep it is okay to talk here about it14:44
boris-42kun_huang: DinaBelova is doing well=)14:44
boris-42kun_huang: we cut recently new release
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boris-42kun_huang: that allows to use osprofiler without having parameters in api-paste.ini file14:45
boris-42kun_huang: as far as I know DinaBelova is fixing current integration with Ceilometer14:45
boris-42kun_huang: and fixing all projects14:45
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DinaBelovaboris-42, kun_huang - yep14:45
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kun_huangboris-42: good, I have a meeting with QA team of my company14:46
DinaBelovawill start owrking on the multi backend then14:46
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kun_huangit's time to introduce rally and osprofiler14:46
DinaBelovakun_huang - cool  :)14:46
boris-42kun_huang: great=)14:46
kun_huangI hope they could try to fix some basic issues themselves14:46
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kun_huangso I could do some easy review ;)14:46
boris-42kun_huang: so currently osprofiler seems like broken14:47
boris-42kun_huang: because of changes in ceilometer14:47
boris-42DinaBelova: btw did you fix it at the end?)14:47
DinaBelovaboris-42 - yep, right now it works14:47
DinaBelovaalthough in the minimal way14:47
DinaBelovadue to the fact ceilometer is not able to store all payload now14:47
kun_huangboris-42: I know google dapper, so I could introduce the similiar ideas14:47
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DinaBelovaboris-42 - it requires full declarative definition14:48
DinaBelovathat's not possible in osprofiler general use case, where user can place everything in the args/kwargs14:48
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kun_huangDinaBelova: do you need ceilometer guy to help?14:48
DinaBelovakun_huang - found already :)14:48
DinaBelovaityaptin will work on that14:49
kun_huangDinaBelova: nice14:49
boris-42DinaBelova: that overall sucks14:49
boris-42DinaBelova: is it possible to get some improvements in Ceilometer to keep such values?14:49
DinaBelova - here is the report I was able to generate for glance create image14:49
DinaBelovaboris-42 - yep, Ilya will work on that14:50
boris-42DinaBelova: oh great14:50
DinaBelovaityaptin I mean :)14:50
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boris-42DinaBelova: I don't see DB points14:51
DinaBelovaI did not turn them on14:51
boris-42DinaBelova: heh14:51
DinaBelovaboris-42 - I will do that14:51
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boris-42DinaBelova: and you won't see DB queires14:51
boris-42DinaBelova: which is important=)14:51
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boris-42DinaBelova: so do we need to merge your fix in osprofiler?14:51
boris-42DinaBelova: to get such traces?14:52
DinaBelovaboris-42 - I was trying to start with basics :D14:52
DinaBelovawell, yep14:52
DinaBelovaI'm fixing tests right now14:52
DinaBelovathen I was planning to go to DB requests tracing14:52
DinaBelovato ensure they work / do not work without specific event definition14:52
boris-42DinaBelova: =)14:53
DinaBelovaI think it will work with the needed definitions14:53
boris-42DinaBelova: in any case it's at least collecitng data and fethcing them14:53
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DinaBelovaalthough I'll ask you not to merge my change until I'll give you report with DB part14:54
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DinaBelovajust in case14:54
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boris-42DinaBelova: no worries I am expert in non merging patches14:54
DinaBelovaI never thought it'll be easy :D14:54
DinaBelovaso everything as expected14:54
boris-42DinaBelova: =)14:55
boris-42kun_huang: btw I will try to update maybe today Oslo Spec for OSProfiler14:55
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DinaBelovaboris-42 - that will be cool14:56
kun_huangyep, it is useful for to introduce it14:56
boris-42DinaBelova: kun_huang ok14:57
boris-42kun_huang: it's here just in case
boris-42okay let's end meeting14:58
boris-42see you next week14:58
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anteaya#startmeeting third-party15:00
openstackMeeting started Mon Nov 16 15:00:18 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'third_party'15:00
anteayahi lennyb_15:00
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lennyb_anteaya: how are you?15:00
anteayaI'm well thanks15:00
anteayabeautiful day outside15:00
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anteayaand yourself?15:01
lennyb_relatively good :)15:01
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anteayagood, glad to hear it15:01
anteayado you have anything you want to discuss today?15:01
anteayamorning asselin__15:02
lennyb_I think we've found the source of our failures with the glance.15:02
anteayahello rfolco and mmedvede15:02
anteayalennyb_: did you?15:02
asselin__good mornign15:02
anteayalennyb_: what did you learn?15:02
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anteayawhile I wait on lennyb_, did anyone have anything they wanted to discuss today?15:03
lennyb_we are using jenkins user to run CI, this user has NFS home folder, so recent commit with writing cloud.yaml in the home directory of jenkins that is shared among all the Slaves was casing an errors15:04
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anteayalennyb_: ah15:04
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anteayagood find15:04
lennyb_now we are using local stack user15:04
asselin__which commit?15:05
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anteayaso your change was causing your error15:07
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anteayais anyone else affected by this?15:07
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lennyb_anteaya: my change was a fix to another commit. 1 sec I will find it15:08
anteayalennyb_: but you said that it was also causing your error, which you fixed by using the local stack user15:08
anteayaunless I am mis-understanding what you are trying to tell me15:09
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anteayabefore we spend a lot more time on this, do other folks have things they want to discuss today?15:10
lennyb_I fixed the use of sudo when writing in the $HOME, since sudo does not have permissions to write in the $HOME of the $USER15:10
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anteayalennyb_: have you a patch url?15:10
* lennyb_ looking for15:10
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mmedvedeI did not see any permission-related problems on our side. lennyb_ , are you using standard infra-inspired pipeline for your CI?15:11
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lennyb_mmedvede: are you using global user of the network with home on NFS folder?15:12
lennyb_mmedvede: then you are not effected15:13
mmedvedeI guess this is why then15:13
anteayalennyb_: I'm concerned you might be digging yourself into a hole with your modifications15:13
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anteayayou seem to be encountering issues others aren't15:14
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anteayabut I don't want to take to much time on this if you feel the issue is fixed15:15
anteayadoes anyone have anything more they want to say on this topic?15:15
anteayadoes anyone have anything else they would like to discuss today?15:16
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lennyb_anteaya: the issue is fixed. thanks. I will keep in mind your suggestion15:17
anteayalennyb_: okay thanks15:17
anteayano other issue to discuss today?15:17
anteayaany objection to me closing the meeting?15:17
anteayathanks all for your attendance and participation today15:18
asselin__thanks anteaya15:18
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mmedvedethank you15:18
anteayaenjoy the rest of your day/evening15:18
anteayasee you next week15:18
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rakhmerov#startmeeting Mistral16:00
openstackMeeting started Mon Nov 16 16:00:41 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is rakhmerov. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Mistral)"16:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'mistral'16:00
nmakhotkin_hi everyone!16:00
rakhmerovhi, please name yourself! )16:00
akuznetsovahi there16:00
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akuznetsovaI am Nastya16:01
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LimorStotlandHi all16:01
akuznetsovaoops, you meant different16:01
rakhmerovakuznetsova: we know that! :)16:01
rakhmerovhi Limor16:01
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rakhmerov1 min...16:02
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rakhmerovok, I'm here16:03
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rakhmerov^Gal^: hi, I approved but please fix a couple minor style issues with your next patches16:04
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rakhmerovthere's no special agenda for today actually16:04
rakhmerov#topic Review Action items16:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Review Action items (Meeting topic: Mistral)"16:04
rakhmerov1. rakhmerov: create Mitaka series and milestone in python-mistralclient LP16:05
rakhmerov#action rakhmerov: create Mitaka series and milestone in python-mistralclient LP16:05
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rakhmerov2. melisha: Write docs about in M-116:05
rakhmerovthis should not be evaluated now, we'll be tracking it in LP16:05
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rakhmerov3. rakhmerov, melisha: design "Mistral HA" and "Multi-region sport" during M-116:05
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rakhmerovnot done, I'll keep it for records16:06
rakhmerov#action rakhmerov, melisha: design "Mistral HA" and "Multi-region support" during M-116:06
rakhmerov4. rakhmerov: ping melisha and look at the bugs together16:06
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rakhmerov#topic Current status (progress, issues, roadblocks, further plans)16:06
*** openstack changes topic to "Current status (progress, issues, roadblocks, further plans) (Meeting topic: Mistral)"16:06
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rakhmerovlet's share our statuses quickly16:06
xylan_kongone by one16:07
rakhmerovspecifically, I'm interested if you have any roadblocks preventing you fro moving forward16:07
rakhmerovxylan_kong: go ahead16:07
xylan_kong1. [ready for review] complete the implementation of 'mistral workflow sharing as a reference implementation of resource sharing feature',
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xylan_kong2. [ready for review] complete integration of mistral client and openstack client,
xylan_kong3. [merged] a good news! The mistral-spec repo has been merged in mistral namespace, please see
xylan_kong4. [in progress] add reno support in mistral, which I'm also trying to understand its mechanism16:07
xylan_kong5. [always] review work16:08
akuznetsovamy status: review, made a couple of minor patches, thinking about what do next16:08
rakhmerovxylan_kong: I'll review your patches tomorrow16:08
xylan_kongfor mistral-specs, I'll make some initial changes and write a detailed introduction about the new process later on.16:08
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rakhmerovxylan_kong: let's talk about this new process today later16:08
xylan_kongrakhmerov: oik16:08
LimorStotland  my status : working on internal alcatel issues  and we need to start testing mistral this week16:08
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_gryfToday was a first meeting for openstack-ha. Here is the link for the minutes:
nmakhotkin_my status: fixed work mistralclient with unverified keystone cert (SSL/TLS), fixing async actions to send callback url for sending result back to Mistral16:09
nmakhotkin_also a lot of review today16:09
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_gryfthe reason I'm rising it on mistral miting is the fact, that people are very interested in proposed mistral solution for evac task16:09
xylan_kong_gryf: glad to hear that16:09
rakhmerovmy status: mostly doing reviews and bug review16:09
akuznetsova_gryf, very interesting...16:10
xylan_kong_gryf: i'll take a look to see how we can help for that16:10
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rakhmerov_gryf: I know that, I talked to a bunch of people about that at the summit (5-6)16:10
rakhmerov#action rakhmerov: review
rakhmerovok, we'll see what they discussed16:11
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rakhmerovok, thanks16:11
rakhmerovany serious roadblocks?16:12
rakhmerovxylan_kong: can we already start using spec repo?16:12
rakhmerovfor our new big BPs16:12
xylan_kongrakhmerov: not for now, need to put a template file and some directories16:12
rakhmerovok, let us know when it's done16:13
xylan_kongbut i think it will not be very late16:13
rakhmerov#topic Open Discussion16:13
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Mistral)"16:13
rakhmerovxylan_kong: can you briefly tell us about this reno thing?16:13
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rakhmerovand changes to maintaining stable branches16:13
xylan_kongrakhmerov: hehe, i 'm also trying to understand well about reno16:14
rakhmerovthese are 2 things I'm interested in (since you are a liason now)16:14
rakhmerovwhat were you able to understand so far? :))16:14
rakhmerovnot much?16:14
xylan_kongfor now, i just copy something from the examples Doug have given16:14
xylan_kongto make sure we are far behind it16:14
rakhmerovany details?16:15
rakhmerovok, then let's talk about that offline once you get enough details16:15
LimorStotlandsorry for the dumb question but what is reno?16:15
rakhmerovI saw that there was a bunch of info on that but I didn't have a chance to get familiar with it16:16
xylan_kongin my undersdanding, reno will track the features or bugs made to mistral automatically16:16
rakhmerovLimorStotland: yes, that's what I'm asking too16:16
xylan_kongbut you need add patches for the feature and bug description16:16
dhellmannxylan_kong : right, reno will organize the notes you add, but you have to write them yourself16:16
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xylan_kongdhellmann: ooh, you're here16:17
LimorStotlandThanks xylan_kong16:17
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rakhmerovdhellmann: ok, we'll pick that up16:18
xylan_kongrakhmerov, nmakhotkin_ , you can ask dhellmann for your questions, i think nobody understand reno better than him16:18
xylan_kongdhellmann :-)16:18
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nmakhotkin_sure, thanks16:18
xylan_kongand i will understand it by myself16:18
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rakhmerovok, sure. I just don't want to ask dhellmann about that (knowing that he's extremely busy) until I read something (or ask you) that was sent out in ML16:19
dhellmannsure, if you have deep questions please post as a follow-up to that mailing list thread so everyone can benefit from the answers16:19
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xylan_kongrakhmerov: ok, no problem16:19
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rakhmerovdhellmann: we will16:19
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dhellmannrakhmerov : thanks!16:20
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xylan_kongrakhmerov: you can add an action for me16:22
rakhmerovso team, I don't have much else to discuss today. We're deeply in M-1 now16:22
xylan_kongabout reno16:22
rakhmerovxylan_kong: you can add yourself :)16:22
rakhmerovok, let me do that16:22
rakhmerov#action xylan_kong: learn about reno and share with the team16:22
xylan_kong#action xylan_kong: understand better about reno16:22
rakhmerovdouble action!16:22
xylan_kongthat's fine16:22
rakhmerovok, so, I thank all of you, I see a lot of patches on review. I'll try to do a better job on reviewing them16:23
rakhmerovand encourage everyone to do so16:23
rakhmerovlots of good bugfixes16:23
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xylan_kongyes, i have put more efforts on code works these days16:23
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rakhmerovMoshe's patch about CT is about to get merged, I'm really looking forward to see it done16:23
akuznetsovaI have a question16:24
rakhmerovgo ahead16:24
LimorStotlandMoshe is working on functional tests16:24
akuznetsovaI want to start work on doing our dsvm gates voting16:25
rakhmerovLimorStotland: IMO it should be a separate patch16:25
akuznetsovabefore it I want to make some refactoring in mistral devstack scripts and functional tests16:25
LimorStotlandOk i will let him know16:25
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rakhmerovakuznetsova: we can't technically do it before we figure out how to solve a cycle problem16:25
rakhmerovbetwee mistral and client16:25
rakhmerovakuznetsova: yep16:26
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akuznetsovaI don't like your suggestion16:26
nmakhotkin_agree with rakhmerov16:26
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nmakhotkin_how do we solve this cyclic dependency problem?16:26
akuznetsovaI think that it will be better to make all perfect and only after it make it voting :-)16:26
rakhmerovdon't know yet16:27
rakhmerovakuznetsova: the problem is deeper than that :)16:27
rakhmerovsuch situations will pop up anyway16:27
rakhmerovwhen we have to break the gate16:27
akuznetsovaI remember about cycle problem, I am going to think about it too16:27
xylan_kongrakhmerov, nmakhotkin_ what's the problem you mean? i am not sure i know that...16:28
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rakhmerovactually whenever we make incompatible API changes for example (e.g. if we're working on a new API and it's not ready yet)16:28
akuznetsovaneed to investigate how other project live with it16:28
rakhmerovakuznetsova: yes16:28
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rakhmerovxylan_kong: let me explain it tomorrow :)))16:28
xylan_kongrakhmerov: fine16:28
rakhmerovit's going to be a long conversation :))16:28
nmakhotkin_I guess other projects don't launch client tests in main repo16:28
akuznetsovaxylan_kong, we run CLI tests on every commit to mistral16:28
xylan_kongrakhmerov :-)16:28
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xylan_kongakuznetsova: yes16:29
xylan_kongakuznetsova: are you sure you want to tell the story now?16:29
akuznetsovaxylan_kong, let me explain it later, I will send an email with our current situation and possible descision16:29
xylan_kongakuznetsova: appreciate that16:30
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rakhmerovok, let's save some time and end the meeting now16:30
rakhmerovis that ok?16:30
rakhmerova lot of things to do :)16:30
xylan_kongsure, nothing from my side16:31
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rakhmerovthanks! bye!16:31
nmakhotkin_ok, sure16:31
xylan_kongkeep coding and reviewing16:31
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"16:31
openstackMeeting ended Mon Nov 16 16:31:20 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)16:31
openstackMinutes (text):
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matjazphi all17:02
matjazpanyone here for the meeting?17:02
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ianychoihello. i am first but want to see training-guide meeting.17:03
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matjazphi ianychoi17:03
matjazpsure, we can start with it17:03
ianychoihello, matjazp :)17:03
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matjazp#startmeeting training-guides17:04
openstackMeeting started Mon Nov 16 17:04:10 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is matjazp. Information about MeetBot at
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:04
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: training-guides)"17:04
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'training_guides'17:04
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matjazproll call17:04
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matjazpianychoi you're here for the training guides meeting?17:05
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ianychoiYes. I am interested in the meeting because I just attended last Tokyo upstream training ,17:06
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matjazpoh, nice17:06
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matjazpseems like a small attendance this week17:07
ianychoiand I want to translate training guides to Korean. Now I want to know first how training-guide stackers are doing before my translation :)17:07
ianychoiI think so.17:07
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ianychoiIs there some topics for today meeting?17:07
matjazpianychoi: let me just take care of some of the bookkeeping stuff17:07
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ianychoiOkay, I see!17:08
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matjazp#info two new core reviewers: Kato Tomoyuki and Tim Freund17:08
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matjazp#info  We added a new policy for cores: current lead of Upstream training session (held before each Summit) is now part of the core team by function.17:09
matjazpnothing on the agenda17:09
ianychoiAha.. I see. I met them on the last Tokyo upstream training. They helped and guided me a lot.17:09
ianychoiFor training-guide translation, Kato proposed translation tools on training-guides.17:10
matjazpwe can talk about what you need17:10
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matjazpianychoi:  yes, it is merged17:10
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matjazpwhat else do you need?17:10
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ianychoiBut I could not follow the next steps... so I want to ask Kato on Thursday: i18n meeting.17:11
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matjazpunfortunately I have no experience with translation tooling17:11
ianychoiThat's okay. To translate it, training-guide project needs to be listed on translate.openstack.org17:11
matjazpIf you guys tell me what you need, I can help17:11
ianychoiI think it is a little bit related to openstack-infra..17:12
matjazpaha, ok, I'll look into it17:13
ianychoiJust I am sharing my thoughts :)17:13
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matjazp#action matjazp looks into adding training guides into translation.openstack.org17:13
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ianychoiCorrection: -> translate.openstack.org17:13
openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Action object at 0xaf2d550>17:13
matjazp#action matjazp looks into adding training guides into translate.openstack.org17:14
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ianychoiThank you :) And can I ask one more thing?17:14
ianychoiActually, during the last upstream training, I have found this bug:
openstackLaunchpad bug 1490471 in OpenStack Training Guides "[Upstream training] StackForge namespace status changes" [High,Confirmed] - Assigned to Ian Y. Choi (ianychoi)17:15
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ianychoiI have found that Stackforge is not used anymore.. so can I change some slides mentioned Stackforge?17:15
ianychoiOr it would also beneficial to mention Stackforge?17:15
matjazpyes, that is what the bug says17:16
matjazpso slides should change accordingly: no more Stackforge17:16
matjazpwe have big tent now17:16
matjazpso you can just change slides and put them up to the review queue17:17
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ianychoiAha, I see! I wanted to to that, but I have found that you added one description: 'updated'.17:17
matjazpI have updated a URL link a week ago17:17
ianychoiI have been figuring out this meaning..17:17
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ianychoiAha, URL link! Thanks.17:18
matjazpyou can see what I updated if you click on the "original description" link17:18
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matjazplink was on draft17:18
matjazpwe're publishing on the web page now17:18
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ianychoiYes. That's exactly. I saw materials during upstream training. It was so nice!17:18
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matjazpWe're working on training slides for openstack too17:19
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matjazpso ppl can reuse them at meetups and other meetings17:19
ianychoiOkay. Then, I will add  more explanation on StackForge: no more Stackforge17:20
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ianychoiIn my opinion, keeping StackForge is also good.. although it is retired..17:20
ianychoiYes. This is why I want to translate it into Korean.17:20
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ianychoiI would like to open Korean upstream training.. :)17:20
ianychoiI want to mainly use training-guide materials.17:20
matjazpare you interested in making some material for teaching openstack?17:21
matjazpyou can contribute to that too17:21
matjazpand of course, I'll look into this translation registration issue17:22
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ianychoiThanks. I will think about my contribution on training-guides, and I think Kato is dealing with it, but I have not asked to him recently.17:23
matjazpok, anything you can do is much appreciated17:23
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ianychoiIt is my great pleasure. Thanks..!17:24
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matjazpif  you get stuck or need anything please don't hesitate to ask17:25
matjazpeither me directly or on the Docs ML17:25
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ianychoiOkay, got it.17:26
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matjazpaha, I see: a patch for project-config is needed and we need to add translate into options17:28
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matjazpI'll submit a patch, I hope that's all.17:31
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ianychoiThanks so much for dealing with it!17:32
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matjazpno problem, I'm just glad that you're prepared to translate this17:33
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ianychoiI was very impressed the last upstream training.17:34
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ianychoiTomorrow, I am supposed to present my upstream training experiences to some Koreans for about 30 minutes.17:34
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matjazpyou're doing a short version?17:38
matjazpfor developers?17:38
ianychoiTomorrow, just explaining what upstream training is, and how I chose and solved the bug thanks to mentors..17:39
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ianychoiI would like to open Korean upstream training, but I think translation needs to be preceded first for better understanding..17:40
* matjazp here, the patch is in:
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ianychoiAnd I am not sure whether I can allocate two entire days in Korea. If it is impossible, I will divide the entire session into several hours by regular week..17:41
ianychoiThis is just my current thoughts :)17:41
matjazpyes it can be a problem17:41
matjazpI usually just skip lego exercise :(17:41
ianychoiThat's too bad.. :(17:42
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matjazpyes, it's a nice simulation17:42
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matjazpbut if you have only a day or few hours, that's the only option17:42
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ianychoiThat's so pity, but I agree with you.17:44
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matjazpok, I hope that you can start wirking on the translations soon17:46
matjazpthanks for your time17:46
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matjazpshould we stop the meeting?17:46
ianychoiYes, you can.17:47
matjazpok, thanks again. Bye!17:47
ianychoiThank you so much for guiding today meeting :)17:47
matjazpnot a problem :)17:47
matjazp I hope to see you again17:47
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ianychoiYep. I will keep in mind for this meeting.17:47
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"17:47
openstackMeeting ended Mon Nov 16 17:47:50 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:47
openstackMinutes (text):
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adam_g#startmeeting astara18:01
openstackMeeting started Mon Nov 16 18:01:30 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is adam_g. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: astara)"18:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'astara'18:01
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adam_glast weeks notes @
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adam_gdavidlenwell, markmcclain ryanpetrello elo anyona round18:04
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davidlenwellelo.. this is on my calandar for an hour from now18:07
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davidlenwell(that was suppsed to be short for hello)18:07
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adam_gi guess we'll start18:07
eloUTC timezone…that was my issue from last week18:08
adam_gUTC stops for noone18:08
adam_g#topic Outstanding project rename tasks18:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Outstanding project rename tasks (Meeting topic: astara)"18:08
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adam_gour devstack job is working again pending a change in neutron, which is still yet to merge18:09
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adam_g#action adam_g to see gets merged to reopen our gate18:09
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adam_gother than that, the devstack plugin and all associated config has been renamed at
adam_g* markmcclain to start the process of renaming modules akanda->astara18:10
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adam_gi think markmcclain is at a conference ATM but i know this is something he's still working on18:10
davidlenwellso the reason that patch didn't merge is because it soft depends on that neutron patch ?18:10
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adam_gdavidlenwell, yeah, and the neutron patch is taking a while to get reviewed18:11
davidlenwellI see18:11
adam_g* adam_g update horizon rug->orchestrator18:11
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adam_gi made some progress on this frday, will carry over till next week (shoudl be pushing something today)18:11
adam_g#action adam_g update horizon rug->orchestrator18:11
adam_gbegin migrating docs, renaming references: akanda->astara, rug->orchestrator (davidlenwell18:11
davidlenwellI was holding back doc patches because I wasn't sure what was going on with that..18:12
adam_gdavidlenwell, i saw you migrated the old docs into the new repo18:12
davidlenwellI'll push them all up today18:12
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adam_gdavidlenwell, as in, the edits to rename the actual references akanda->astara ?18:12
adam_gill carry it over18:12
adam_g#action begin migrating docs, renaming references: akanda->astara, rug->orchestrator (davidlenwell18:12
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adam_gthose are the pending actions that require patches. other than that, #openstack-astara is now open and has bots there18:13
adam_gi'll be shutting down the #akanda channel today. that is, making it readonly and hopefully pointing people to the new #openstack-astara18:13
adam_g#action adam_g shuts down #akanda for good18:13
adam_g#topic Mitaka Development18:14
*** openstack changes topic to "Mitaka Development (Meeting topic: astara)"18:14
davidlenwelladam_g: you don't want to just leave it empty and chage the topic to point at the astara chanel?18:14
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adam_gdavidlenwell, yes, that. except making it readonly so people have no choice but to move to new channel if they actually want to chat18:14
davidlenwellahh.. okay18:14
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adam_gso ive went ahead and filed skeleton blueprints for all the work items we discussed in tokyo18:15
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adam_gwe should probably start getting these assigned to people, at least for things that are currently in progress18:15
davidlenwelloh cool18:16
adam_gfor the non-major things (ie, appliance API v2 API, Neutron flavors), i think we can skip the specs process18:16
adam_give been working on beefing up functional testing last week, so i'll go ahead and grab the ci-updates-mitaka18:17
davidlenwellI'd think a major api version up should have a spec18:17
adam_gdavidlenwell, doh, yeah, thats what i meant18:17
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davidlenwellahh.. I see . that was your list of major things18:17
adam_g... for things that are not major (ie, appliance API V2 API)...18:17
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adam_gdavidlenwell, would you want to take the docs blueprint? if you're going to be adding devstack support for the new features, documenting it while you go would probably make sense18:18
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davidlenwellyeah .. that was my plan..18:19
davidlenwellalready started on it..18:19
davidlenwellI guess I can't assign my self..18:19
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adam_gi might need to setup an astara drivers team instead of having everythign owned by me18:20
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davidlenwellgood thinking18:20
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adam_g... done18:21
adam_gmarkmcclain, i take it youre still stuck detangling all of our messy imports as part of the rename effort? ill hold off on your BPs till thats done18:22
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markmcclainyeah... the circular imports are fun18:22
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adam_gso, as soon as that neutron patch lands we should be good to start flushing through all pending stuff. ill ping reviewers when thats done, hopefully today18:23
adam_gmoving on..18:23
adam_g#topic open discussion18:23
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: astara)"18:23
adam_gi had one thing to bring up here, looking at horizon last week18:23
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adam_gwe currently configure horizon /w the prefix of the management network, and that is what the dashboard uses to determine where to contact the astara API18:24
davidlenwellI was thinking that we could do better in the dashboard18:24
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adam_gthis assumes 1) horizon has access to the management network 2) its going to be communicating to it via IPv6 3) the API is always going to be listening on the first address from that network18:25
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adam_gwould it make more sense to instead code the canonical address of the API server in config? or even put it into keystone?18:26
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adam_gi hit this when trying to hack on horizon locally and point it at a remote astara instance18:26
davidlenwelluse keystone18:26
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adam_gyea, that makes the most sense18:27
adam_gmarkmcclain, any objections?18:28
markmcclainyeah.. makes sense to horizon be able to discover the location of the server18:28
davidlenwellwill make it easier to update the setting globally if a node goes down in a multi-rug env18:28
adam_gthere'd be some associated work needed in astara-orchestrator, ATM it brings up the API server on the management network and doesnt let ops specify its listening address18:29
adam_gill file a bug about this18:29
adam_ganyone have anything else to discuss?18:29
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markmcclainadam_g: I think the admin API is service is something that we need to talk a longer look at18:29
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markmcclainthe original solution was a quick and dirty hack and bakes in many assumptions18:30
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adam_gmarkmcclain, yes, if we're advertising its endpoint in keystone we should probably start using keystone token auth on it as well18:30
davidlenwelladam_g: +118:30
adam_gi think this could all fall within
adam_gmarkmcclain, did you have other ideas for improvements on the API?18:31
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adam_gas in, expanding it to be more than just an avenue for outsiders to dip into RPC via rug-ctl18:32
markmcclainadam_g: yeah I think this is a start18:32
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markmcclainwe could also consider if we want to make to just make this an extension loaded into neutron18:32
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markmcclainif we did that we'd get a lot of things for free18:33
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davidlenwellI think that makes a lot of sense18:33
adam_gmarkmcclain, not a bad idea18:33
adam_gIIRC the API currently uses cliff to basically run the CLI. we'd need to break that up and have it issue its own messages on the notifications bus18:34
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adam_gbut its doable fo sure18:34
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adam_gokay unless anyone has anything else, i suppose we can call it18:35
davidlenwellnothing from me18:35
markmcclainnothing else from me18:36
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adam_gcool. cheers18:36
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openstackMeeting ended Mon Nov 16 18:36:46 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:36
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SubbuAHi all19:00
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jproulxHi all19:00
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j^2who's the chair? we should track it19:01
j^2the meeting that is19:01
maishsksomeone going to startmeeting?19:01
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j^2#startmeeting user-committee19:02
openstackMeeting started Mon Nov 16 19:02:18 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is j^2. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:02
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*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: user-committee)"19:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'user_committee'19:02
j^2#chair ShillaSaebi19:02
openstackCurrent chairs: ShillaSaebi j^219:02
j^2anyone else want chair?19:02
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ShillaSaebimaybe SubbuA and jproulx19:02
SubbuAThat sounds good. Thanks for starting.19:03
j^2agenda link? I don't have it infront of me19:03
SubbuAPlease go for it ShillaSaebi19:03
j^2#chair SubbuA19:03
openstackCurrent chairs: ShillaSaebi SubbuA j^219:03
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ShillaSaebiok so there is an agenda posted on the wiki19:04
ShillaSaebilets go ahead and get started19:04
ShillaSaebi#topic Administrivia19:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Administrivia (Meeting topic: user-committee)"19:04
SubbuAThis is the first ever UC meeting :) Thanks for ShillaSaebi for joining the UC. Welcome.19:04
ShillaSaebithanks :)19:04
SubbuATe agenda is at
jproulxI'd like to propose we add discussion on Ops Midcycle meetup to agenda (time permitting)19:05
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j^2#agreed jproulx19:05
ShillaSaebiyeah same here19:05
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SubbuA#agreed jproulx19:05
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amitry#agreed jproulx19:05
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SubbuANext item on the agenda is purpose, timing and advertising (?) of this meeting19:06
ShillaSaebidoes this timing work for everyone?19:06
barrettIt does for me19:06
med_probably for anyone here.19:06
rolandchanOnly just.19:07
maishskgood for me19:07
simon-AS5591+1 (but beware selection bias)19:07
noggin143ok from europe too19:07
jproulx+1 (+bias)19:07
ShillaSaebiok thats great19:07
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rolandchanwhen summer time comes to an end in a few months, it'll be a 5am kickoff.19:08
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j^2rolandchan: coffee is a good friend ;)19:08
jbrycetfifield might be one notable exception to the current attendees19:08
jbryceon the selection bias front19:08
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SubbuAok. We can revisit. Can we discuss the purpose?19:09
j^2"A larger cross section of the different usecases for OpenStack"19:09
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j^2SubbuA: ^^19:09
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lsellI think overall, we want the User Committee to be a stronger, more visible body that will make a strategic impact on the community - influencing development, helping operators be successful, and better serving the needs of end users19:09
med_Use Cases? Or actual usage?19:09
j^2med_: good point, actual usage19:10
maishsklsell - influencing development?19:10
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lsellyes, helping to get user feedback into the development process, or even contributing directly19:10
jproulxThe initial reason for UC was to bring user concerns back to developers19:11
barrettI'd add: Foster the collaboration of the UC Working Groups to achieve that end.19:11
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jproulxthat's how I believe we are (attempting to) implementing that goal19:11
SubbuAAgree with lsell. I would add that the goal is to improve the continuation of a closed loop in the OpenStack ecosystem.19:13
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barrettI like the "closed loop" element19:13
j^2The people on this committee should be represented of the people who actually run and consume openstack, our goal is to voice concerns and viable strategic changes that the consumers need or want. that's why we need to make it bigger than just 3 people19:14
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maishskj^2: agreed19:14
SubbuAAgree j^219:14
j^2the tl;dr: it's the USER committee19:14
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SubbuAThat can be next topic on the agenda, if we choose to spend on that instead of user survey results.19:15
jproulxShall we discuss expansion then.19:15
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lsellso as far as the meeting purpose / goals / timing... does monthly seem like the right frequency?19:16
jproulx+ monthly19:16
rolandchanit seems a little infrequent to me, but I'm new here.19:16
jproulx+1 that is19:16
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j^2lsell: i think so until we need more. this should be check in and anything tatical should be used via the ML19:16
barrettlsell: depends upon how we define our deliverables, I think19:16
ShillaSaebi@rolandchan I think the same thing but I am also new so I'm not quite sure19:16
maishsk+1 monthly19:16
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simon-AS5591+1 monthly19:17
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barrettrolandchan: +119:17
rolandchanI suppose we can see what happens. if we need more, we can increase tempo easily enough.19:17
jproulxexactly scheduling is changable19:17
j^2and the ML isn't used at all19:17
SubbuAsounds good. Let's stick to monthly for now.19:17
lselli also expect a lot of the work and more detailed discussions will get pushed into the user groups, where a lot of work is already happening :)19:17
j^2i can't stress that enough19:17
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jproulxso last piece of that lien item is advertising19:18
sgordonmany of the working groups are weekly...19:18
rolandchanwait what?19:18
rolandchansorry, misread19:19
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barrettdoes user group = working group?19:20
lsellyes, sorry, i meant working group19:20
lselllike product group, large deployments, etc.19:20
noggin143user group for me is geographical, working group is topical19:20
j^2noggin143: that's a great way to describe it19:21
SubbuACool. Are we good on the frequency? Can we move to the next topic?19:21
sgordonnoggin143, +119:21
j^2SubbuA: i think so yes19:21
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jproulxI thnk working groups meeting weekly (at their own decision) and User Committee coordiantion monthly seems to make sense to me, but if it 's no trequesnt enough we can be more frequent but let's start here at monthly for UC19:22
SubbuA#topic uc-expansion19:22
*** openstack changes topic to "uc-expansion (Meeting topic: user-committee)"19:22
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jproulxWe all agree (I think) that we need more people and bandwidth19:22
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jproulxquestion as I see it si shoudl we formally expand with ellected members or informally expand with volunters19:23
j^2totally, there needs to be more visiablity of this committee, as i said in tokyo, i didn't know existed till Tom mentioned it to me19:23
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noggin143+1 for volunteers... helps build a list of people who can contribute19:23
SubbuACan't agree more. There is quite a bit of valuable work is happening in various working groups, and IMO, it is important to make that visible under the UC umbrella.19:24
amitry+1 volunteers19:24
j^2what's the shortest path to success? There's nothing that we have to set in stone right?19:24
lsellnotes from the user committee "meta" session in tokyo if helpful:
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SubbuAthanks lsell - was just going to open that19:25
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ShillaSaebiok so we talked about possibly expanding the UC and adding more members19:25
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ShillaSaebioops sorry I didnt read above19:25
ShillaSaebido we want to specify how many volunteers we want to start with?19:26
jproulxas many as will volunteer :)19:26
ShillaSaebithat sounds great to me19:26
j^2ShillaSaebi: i think we just open it as a "Looking for Group" type thing see who joins, then who sticks around, then they are our group19:26
kencjohnstonone point for discussion, if we open it up to volunteers you are going to get folks like me, who are corporately-aligned, representing but not explicitly acting as "users" as some of your volunteer base. Is that a concern?19:27
j^2churn is the killer, always the killer19:27
rolandchankencjohnston: not if you're a user.19:27
kencjohnstonI'd love to volunteer but I'd want to make sure I'm a good/appropriate fit.19:27
jproulxSo I think this actually comes back to advertising our existence19:27
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kencjohnstonOK, so I guess that is a call for being clear on who we want as volunteers19:28
j^2should we take our first major action item is create a doc that explains what type of user we are looking for?19:28
jproulxThe only place we need to be very careful about who volunteers is with User Survey Working group, but I think that's it's own topic19:28
kencjohnstonI'm a core member of the PWG btw19:28
kencjohnstonj^2 +119:29
SubbuAjproulx: certainly. In addition would like to get clarity on the process.19:29
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SubbuAWe discussed the process at the summit, but I don't think we had a conclusive answer.19:30
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noggin143The user survey group should be VERY distinct. NDA requirements for getting good coverage.19:30
maishskSo number of members - shoud be an odd (not even) number19:30
j^2yeah that is the "elected" group to the user commitee19:30
noggin143My understanding of the bylaws is that there is no problem expanding the UC, but need to create a user survey WG with NDA.19:30
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maishskA number of questions regarding elections thoug - if we want to go down that route ?19:31
j^2noggin143: yep, that sounds fimilar from the meta meeting19:31
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j^2maishsk: i think we should think about that when we need to, right now we're just trying to reengage19:31
jbrycenoggin143: that’s correct. there are some constraints on the election piece though19:31
noggin143Typical example for me would be Matt Van W who would count as a vendor (Rackspace) but major contributor to ops (e.g. Large Deployments). He should be able to start for the UC but not the survey group.19:32
jproulxI thought we'd decided on volunteers rather than election to avoid that complication, but if we do expand by election then there are lots of issues19:32
egonan election would tend to be a sub-set of volunteers19:33
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egonthe volunteer pool would hopefully be more inclusive than an election would end up with.19:33
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noggin143Elections take a serious effort... let's find the volunteers first which also helps to build a manifesto.19:33
j^2noggin143: totally19:33
jproulxWe have an agenda item for "formation of the User Survey Working Group" are we on that now?  I feel we've wandered a bit from expantion but onto next topic on agenda...19:33
SubbuAjproulx: yes, that's the topic (uc-expansion)19:34
maishsknoggin143: agree19:34
SubbuAanyone feels that there needs to be elected body?19:34
j^2SubbuA: not for the time being19:34
maishskSubbuA: not yet - but could be necessary down the road19:35
barrettnope, think volunteers is the way to go19:35
maishskdepending on what ‘klout’ and influence the UC has / comes up with19:35
SubbuAso, volunteers it is19:35
jproulx+1 maishsk19:35
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SubbuAAny thoughts on the process we would use for adding volunteers?19:35
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noggin143+1 SubbuA for volunteers19:36
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j^2SubbuA: start out with the normal communication channels, or hell open an etherpad and ask people to put their email address on it, and start conversations there19:36
j^2then eventually get everyone on the user-committee ML and start the conversations we need to have there19:37
jproulxI think for general committee organizational work whoever shows up to these meeting or the mail list is good19:37
j^2but the uc-ml requires admin approval, so we don't want to initally have everyone join it, it'll be a flood of work for Tom19:37
jproulxwe'd discussed not moderating joins to uc-ml19:37
SubbuAI suggest (a) an email broadcast, followed by (b) a section on with the19:38
maishskjproulx: I agree related to the participants on the meetings19:38
sgordonso umm dumb question19:38
SubbuAlist of participants19:38
ShillaSaebiI like the idea of adding the volunteers to the wiki page instead of a separate etherpad19:38
ShillaSaebisign up section on the wiki19:38
j^2i hope yall see the underlying issue that i'm trying to solve here, there isnt communication between the teams and this committee has the oppertunity to be the cantolist to be that communication so i'm extremely excited to be apart of this19:38
sgordona lot of the WGs already either have their own list or use ops list19:38
sgordonand im wondering if more UC comms on the ops list19:38
sgordonmight solve the visibility issue...19:38
j^2ShillaSaebi: you don't want it on the wiki, the edits are blasted and tracked, it'll be a lot of noise19:39
sgordonexcluding of course those comms that are privileged (survey related)19:39
jproulxI don't see value of a list of volunteers.  what about when they leave?  I think mailing list is enough (though not strongly opposed ot other list)19:39
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j^2jproulx: agreed, but the mailing list requires admin approval19:39
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j^2that's a barrier to entry19:40
jproulxI think we shgould change mailing list so it doesn't require approval to subscribe19:40
lselladmin approval is pretty easy, or we could just remove it19:40
jproulx+1 remove it19:40
maishskj^2: why does it require admin approval?19:40
j^2maishsk: no clue, but it does when i signed up for it19:40
sgordonmaishsk, historical probably19:40
j^2lsell: yes, please lets just remove it then we can ask people to join the ML as a sign of them voluenteering to help19:41
maishskI don’t see any reason for keeping it then19:41
lsellto sgordon's earlier point, i do think the ops list is where we have critical mass19:41
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SubbuAso, the consensus is to let folks join the list to volunteer as a virtual expansion of the UC19:41
lsellthe only issue is that we also want to think about end users, so the intended audience is a bit broader19:41
noggin143historically we were worried that the list would be overloaded ... I think this is not such as concern today :-) +1 for auto subscription19:41
j^2SubbuA: that seems accurate yes19:41
jproulx+1 SubbuA19:42
j^2lsell: i think we should look at endusers after we get our feet under ourselves19:42
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SubbuAWe've 18 minutes more. Shall we move to the next topic?19:42
jproulxlsell: re ops list we shoudl promote a bit there as Operators are currently the biggest set of users we suppost, but I think we envision representing Users beyond that scope as well19:43
maishskSo who takes the action to remove the authorization for the mailing list?19:43
lsellj^2: there is already work with the app ecosystem group to start thinking about end users, and i just don't want to send a message that the user committee only serves ops by using the ops mailing list as the point of collaboration. that was my only point...19:43
lselli'll take that19:43
jproulxthx lsell19:43
med_did you talk about Ops Meetup in Manchester yet?19:43
j^2lsell: ah yeah, makes sense. yeah it's one of those things that could be a landmine if not worded correctly19:43
* med_ sees the old subject line still19:43
maishsk#action lsell - remove the authorization requirement for the UC mailing list19:43
SubbuAmed_: that can be the next topic. Do we want to discuss here or continue on ML?19:44
j^2SubbuA: ML19:44
SubbuA+1 for ML19:44
maishsk+1 for ML as well19:45
noggin143I'm fine with the ML but let's be open to significant meetups outside the US. Constraint being Product WG and PTL attendence which is beneficial.19:45
simon-AS5591noggin143 +119:46
jproulx15 min to go19:46
maishskOr perhaps allow for virtual participation19:46
SubbuAnoggin143 +119:47
sgordonyou can still get good dev engagement at least in other locales19:47
rolandchanmaishk: Any more virtual and we won't actually do anything :(19:47
sgordone.g. cores if not PTLs19:47
noggin143or non-PTL but significant member of the team19:47
noggin143sgordon _119:47
maishskrolandchan: :)19:47
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SubbuAI suggest we let that discussion continue on the ML. Any other topic for the remaining 12 minutes?19:48
jproulxDo we ahve any Working group reports for last 12 min?19:48
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rolandchanUm... survey results analysis?19:49
jproulxAh yes19:49
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rolandchanIs anyone currently assigned to do analysis?19:49
maishskrolandchan: what kind of analysis?19:49
rolandchanany kind would be a good start.19:50
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maishskabove and on top of what was published in the report?19:50
SubbuArolandchan: I don't believe there is any such track for additional analysis. lsell ?19:51
SubbuArolandchan: can you be more specific?19:51
jproulxwhat questions would you like to see answered that weren't19:51
rolandchanFundamentally: why?19:51
maishskAnd for that to happen someone would actually have to have access to the raw data - which I think is not very many at the current ime19:52
rolandchanwhy do the results look they way they do19:52
noggin143is this the NPS scores ?19:52
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SubbuArolandchan: still not parsing. Can you elaborate?19:52
rolandchanyes. what is behind that variance? What do we need to look at next survey?19:52
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jproulxWhat do we need to look at next survey? is a function of User Survey Working Group19:53
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rolandchanwhat is that working group? I couldn't find it.19:54
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lselli think pages 10-13 in the report attempt to dig deeper into the comments and "why" factor
rolandchanTom's note on the agenda implies it would require formation. ie: it doesn't exist.19:54
SubbuArolandchan: till now, that working group is the UC itself.19:54
lsellbut there's certainly room for additional analysis19:54
noggin143The worry is that there was a swing in NPS ratings.... statistical or trend ? Survey WG will only look once per 6 months19:54
SubbuAWith the expansion to volunteers, we will need to form a smaller group and have them sign NDAs19:54
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rolandchannoggin143: yes, but I'd rather not wait another 2 data points before doing analysis.19:55
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noggin143Propose initial WG those who have signed NDA or are foundation members ?19:55
j^25 mins19:56
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SubbuAnoggin143: +119:56
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rolandchannoggin143: +!19:56
rolandchannoggin143: +119:56
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noggin143Clarify ... Propose initial WG from those who have signed NDA or are foundation staff members ?19:57
egonyou guys just +1ed an or statement19:57
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lsellthe user experience working group also expressed interest in further comment analysis - the ops question, the what do you like / want improved, and the individual feedback provided to PTLs19:57
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lsellperhaps we pull them into the survey working group, have them sign the confidentiality agreement and assist with additional comment analysis19:57
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maishskCan I make a suggestion - since there are open issues - which we have note addressed - either we continue this on the mailing list or…19:58
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rolandchancan we at least resolve to do some analysis, and then work out the details on the ML?19:58
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lsellnps not ops19:58
maishskset up another meeting for two weeks from now.19:58
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j^2maishsk: i think we should do both19:58
maishskj^2: I concur19:58
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j^2there's a lot of information flying back and forth, and it's hard to see the threads19:59
jproulx<1min remianing s +1 to ML19:59
med_Opinion on the ML is consolidating around ONE ops midcycle meetup in Manchester to keep focus.19:59
SubbuAI suggest we continue the discussion, and have the proposal made on the ML for a new meeting in two weeks.19:59
j^2SubbuA: agreed19:59
SubbuAI mean continue the discussion on ML19:59
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jproulxops mailing list for Midcycle discussion uc list for survey?19:59
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SubbuAjproulx: +120:00
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simon-AS5591jproulx +120:00
j^2any objections to closing the meeting?20:00
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ShillaSaebinot from me20:01
j^2thanks everyone!20:01
SubbuAlet's close.20:01
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openstackMeeting ended Mon Nov 16 20:01:10 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)20:01
lsellthanks everyone!20:01
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cloudrancher#startmeeting productworkinggroup21:03
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cloudrancher#startmeeting product workinggroup21:03
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cloudrancher#topic rollcall21:04
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cloudrancher#end meeting21:06
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