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| yamamoto_ | hi | 07:00 |
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| yamamoto_ | anyone here for networking-midonet meeting? | 07:03 |
| * yamamoto_ wait for a while | 07:03 | |
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| ryu25 | yamamoto: i'm here | 07:10 |
| yamamoto_ | hi | 07:11 |
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| yamamoto_ | let's start | 07:12 |
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| yamamoto_ | #startmeeting networking_midonet | 07:12 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 12 07:12:43 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is yamamoto_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 07:12 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 07:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:12 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking_midonet' | 07:12 |
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| yamamoto_ | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NetworkingMidoNet agenda | 07:13 |
| yamamoto_ | #topic Announcements | 07:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:13 | |
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| yamamoto_ | no announcements from me. anyone has anything? | 07:13 |
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| ryu25 | nothing from me | 07:13 |
| kitsuneninetails | I'm good | 07:14 |
| yamamoto_ | #topic Bugs | 07:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:14 | |
| yamamoto_ | https://bugs.launchpad.net/networking-midonet/+bug/1533047 | 07:15 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1533047 in networking-midonet "Format chack is failing with N330 Use assertEqual(*empty*, observed) in test_extension_gateway_device.py" [Critical,Confirmed] - Assigned to YAMAMOTO Takashi (yamamoto) | 07:15 |
| yamamoto_ | this one is urgent as it's blocking gate | 07:15 |
| ryu25 | will review asap | 07:15 |
| yamamoto_ | ryu25: thank you | 07:16 |
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| yamamoto_ | any volunteer for bug deputy of this week? | 07:17 |
| ryu25 | i did it last week but since it was very quiet and did not do much, I can do it again | 07:18 |
| yamamoto_ | ryu25: thank you! | 07:18 |
| joe__ | I can also do it this week or next week | 07:18 |
| kitsuneninetails | We should try to spread it around | 07:18 |
| kitsuneninetails | There are some ppl who haven't done yet | 07:18 |
| ryu25 | sure :-) | 07:18 |
| ryu25 | well, looks like joe__ has volunteered! | 07:19 |
| kitsuneninetails | Nice! Thanks joe__! | 07:19 |
| kitsuneninetails | :) | 07:20 |
| joe__ | np :) | 07:20 |
| yamamoto_ | #info joe__ is a bug deputy of this week | 07:20 |
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| yamamoto_ | joe__: can you update the chart in the wiki? | 07:21 |
| joe__ | yamamoto: will do | 07:21 |
| yamamoto_ | joe__: thank you! | 07:21 |
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| ryu25 | btw, I have noticed that there are bugs for packaging | 07:22 |
| ryu25 | i think we can close these. I have verified that downstream packages have these issues resolved, and the upstream packaging (RDO/UCA) should be tracked in their respective project | 07:23 |
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| yamamoto_ | you mean this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/networking-midonet/+bug/1506720 | 07:24 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1506720 in networking-midonet "neutron-lbaas/fwaas dependency missing in packages" [High,Confirmed] - Assigned to Ryu Ishimoto (ryu-midokura) | 07:24 |
| ryu25 | i've also noticed that i added these bugs :) Anyone against marking them as invalid? | 07:24 |
| ryu25 | yeah that one | 07:24 |
| ryu25 | i thought there was one more... but maybe i'm wrong | 07:24 |
| yamamoto_ | i'm fine with closing them | 07:24 |
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| ryu25 | thanks, will do so now | 07:25 |
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| yamamoto_ | anyone has anything more about bugs? | 07:27 |
| ryu25 | nothing more from me | 07:27 |
| yamamoto_ | #topic Open Discussion | 07:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:28 | |
| yamamoto_ | i have a question | 07:30 |
| yamamoto_ | https://bugs.launchpad.net/networking-midonet/+bug/1527451 | 07:30 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1527451 in networking-midonet "oom killer in gate jobs" [Medium,New] | 07:30 |
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| yamamoto_ | is there any easy way to reduce memory consumption of midolman? | 07:31 |
| yamamoto_ | occasionally it triggers oom killer on gate | 07:31 |
| kitsuneninetails | there are some settings in midolman-env.sh to set the size of the VM, I think | 07:32 |
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| yamamoto_ | kitsuneninetails: i'll take a look. thank you | 07:33 |
| kitsuneninetails | I think the line: MAX_HEAP_SIZE="2048M" might get the best bang for the buck | 07:34 |
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| yamamoto_ | kitsuneninetails: thank you | 07:36 |
| yamamoto_ | anything else to discuss? | 07:37 |
| ryu25 | i'm good | 07:37 |
| kitsuneninetails | nothing from me | 07:37 |
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| yamamoto_ | thank you for attending | 07:39 |
| yamamoto_ | #endmeeting | 07:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 07:39 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 12 07:39:23 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 07:39 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-01-12-07.12.html | 07:39 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-01-12-07.12.txt | 07:39 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-01-12-07.12.log.html | 07:39 |
| kitsuneninetails | thanks! | 07:39 |
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| ryu25 | thanks!! | 07:41 |
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| anteaya_ | #startmeeting third-party | 08:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 12 08:01:29 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is anteaya_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 08:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 08:01 |
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| anteaya_ | hello | 08:01 |
| lennyb_ | hi | 08:01 |
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| anteaya_ | hey lennyb_ | 08:02 |
| anteaya_ | how are you today? | 08:02 |
| lennyb_ | thanks. how are you? | 08:03 |
| anteaya_ | good thanks | 08:04 |
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| anteaya_ | my weechat client apparently is still connected but I couldn't ssh into it, hopefully it will work for me later | 08:04 |
| anteaya_ | yay xchat | 08:04 |
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| lennyb_ | :( | 08:05 |
| anteaya_ | lennyb_: is there anything you would like to discuss today? | 08:05 |
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| anteaya_ | lennyb_: it is a small inconvenience | 08:05 |
| lennyb_ | not really. have a good noght | 08:05 |
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| anteaya_ | thanks you too | 08:06 |
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| anteaya_ | I'll wait around a bit to see if anyone else shows up | 08:06 |
| lennyb_ | sure | 08:06 |
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| anteaya_ | lennyb_: I don't see anyone else today, I'm going to close the meeting | 08:12 |
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| anteaya_ | lennyb_: thanks for being here today, see you next week | 08:12 |
| anteaya_ | #endmeeting | 08:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 08:12 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 12 08:12:57 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 08:12 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-01-12-08.01.html | 08:12 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-01-12-08.01.txt | 08:13 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-01-12-08.01.log.html | 08:13 |
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| ryu25 | hello midonet meeting about to start | 09:02 |
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| ryu25 | #startmeeting midonet | 09:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 12 09:03:30 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ryu25. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 09:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 09:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: midonet)" | 09:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'midonet' | 09:03 |
| ryu25 | #topic announcements | 09:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: midonet)" | 09:04 | |
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| ryu25 | hi joeme | 09:04 |
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| joemi | its "joemi" | 09:05 |
| ryu25 | oops sorry, joemi | 09:05 |
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| ryu25 | no major announcement. I've started adding some bugs in Launchpad for midonet instead of JIRA but I just got started so there are only a few. | 09:06 |
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| ryu25 | i don't really know how/when/if this transition will occur yet. | 09:06 |
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| ryu25 | another announcement: v5.1 release candidate is scheduled for the 19th. It will depend on whether the release blocker bugs exist or not | 09:07 |
| ryu25 | if we can provide v5.1 RC on the 19th, we are looking at the end of the month for the official v5.1 release | 09:08 |
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| ryu25 | that's about all the annoucment I have. Anyone else? | 09:09 |
| yamamoto_ | new bugs should go to lp? | 09:10 |
| ryu25 | I have not made any official announcement, but I would like to this week, which is yes, we should migrate over to LP for new bugs | 09:11 |
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| ryu25 | I'm still hearing conflicting voices regarding the fate of the midonet project in openstack currently | 09:11 |
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| ryu25 | which I'm trying to get to the bottom of | 09:12 |
| ryu25 | I will get the details and share with everyone in ML tomorrow | 09:12 |
| ryu25 | i would like to get some feedback from sandro who is not around today | 09:12 |
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| ryu25 | #action ryu25 summarize the current state of the midonet project joining the big tent, and decide on where the bugs should be reported | 09:14 |
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| ryu25 | #topic Bugs | 09:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: midonet)" | 09:15 | |
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| ryu25 | thanks jfjoly and joemi for serving as the bug deputies the last two weeks | 09:17 |
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| ryu25 | does anyone want to volunteer for this week? | 09:17 |
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| ryu25 | I'll add myself for now since I need to figure out the LP/JIRA situation anyway. But if anyoen wants to volunteer later, let me know | 09:18 |
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| ryu25 | https://bugs.launchpad.net/midonet | 09:19 |
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| ryu25 | as you can see only a small set of bugs have been reported in LP, mostly related to router peering. And only one issue in progress: https://bugs.launchpad.net/midonet/+bug/1527480 | 09:20 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1527480 in midonet "Translation spec for Device Manager and L2GW missing" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Ryu Ishimoto (ryu-midokura) | 09:20 |
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| ryu25 | this one is simply updating the C3PO translation spec | 09:20 |
| ryu25 | hi jfjoly | 09:20 |
| jfjoly | hi everyone, sorry for joining late! | 09:20 |
| joemi | I opened one today under networking-midonet, but maybe this should have been opened under midonet: https://bugs.launchpad.net/networking-midonet/+bug/1533098 | 09:20 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1533098 in networking-midonet "private to FIP traffic is dropped" [Undecided,New] | 09:20 |
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| ryu25 | joemi: Yes, I think this one should go to midonet | 09:21 |
| joemi | ok, ill move it | 09:22 |
| ryu25 | thanks | 09:22 |
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| ryu25 | jfjoly would you like to go over the bugs that are blocking the release for v5.1? | 09:22 |
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| jfjoly | actually, I'm more tracking the blocking bugs for 5.0.1 | 09:23 |
| joemi | ryu25: updated https://bugs.launchpad.net/midonet/+bug/1533098 | 09:23 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1533098 in midonet "private to FIP traffic is dropped" [Undecided,New] | 09:23 |
| ryu25 | I know that they are not tracked publicly just yet but we can still refer to them by titles | 09:23 |
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| ryu25 | ah sorry 5.0.1 | 09:24 |
| ryu25 | joemi: thanks | 09:24 |
| jfjoly | I have a list of 5 known issues, should I create them in LP? | 09:24 |
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| ryu25 | jfjoly: yes, let's do that, and I can comment on them there | 09:25 |
| jfjoly | ok great, will do | 09:25 |
| ryu25 | thanks | 09:25 |
| jfjoly | I will create in LP and send a mail to the list | 09:25 |
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| jfjoly | how do you create an action in the meeting log? | 09:26 |
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| ryu25 | #action jfjoly create LP bugs for the 5.0.1 blockers | 09:27 |
| jfjoly | thanks ! | 09:27 |
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| ryu25 | ok nothing else from me wrt bugs. anyone else? | 09:29 |
| joemi | actually, i have a question | 09:29 |
| jfjoly | nothing from my side | 09:30 |
| joemi | regarding the bug I linked just above | 09:30 |
| jfjoly | no bugs reported in LP last week | 09:30 |
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| joemi | I am looking for opinions on how bad that is | 09:30 |
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| joemi | im not sure if this is the time/place to discuss specific bugs though... | 09:31 |
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| ryu25 | joemi: that's done during the triage process, but let me take a stab at it. I personally think it's not a high priority, but medium | 09:32 |
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| ryu25 | but perhaps someone more in touch with users can weigh in. Basically the question is whether a VM with no FIP accessing a VM with FIP where both VMs are on the subnets connected to the same tenant router, via FIP | 09:34 |
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| ryu25 | whether that is a highly important use case | 09:35 |
| jfjoly | it's private IP to public IP traffic? | 09:35 |
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| joemi | jfjoly: right | 09:35 |
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| jfjoly | should be public to public | 09:36 |
| jfjoly | I haven't looked into that bug in details but doesn't look critical | 09:36 |
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| joemi | OK, fair enough | 09:36 |
| yamamoto_ | there can be users. https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1428887 | 09:36 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1428887 in neutron "Unable to communicate to floatingip on a same network" [Medium,Fix released] - Assigned to Itsuro Oda (oda-g) | 09:36 |
| ryu25 | yamamoto_: nice find! | 09:37 |
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| ryu25 | joemi: I think medium priority is still applicable, but you may want to look at how it was resolved here and see if the same thing can be applied to midonet | 09:38 |
| joemi | ok, sounds good. I'll look at the solution | 09:39 |
| joemi | thanks ryu25 and yamamoto_ | 09:39 |
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| ryu25 | ok moving onto the next topic | 09:41 |
| ryu25 | #topic Open Discussion | 09:41 |
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| ryu25 | there is nothing in particular that I need to bring up today | 09:42 |
| jfjoly | did we designate who is the next bug deputy? | 09:43 |
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| ryu25 | I have volunteered since the whole JIRA->LP migration is still in limbo | 09:43 |
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| jfjoly | ok thanks ryu25! | 09:43 |
| ryu25 | and wanted to have some discussion with stakeholders about it asap | 09:44 |
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| ryu25 | and make a decision on it, which will impact whether we do JIRA/LP | 09:44 |
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| ryu25 | if no one has anymore topic to discuss, I will end the meeting | 09:46 |
| ryu25 | #endmeeting | 09:47 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 09:47 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 12 09:47:13 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 09:47 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/midonet/2016/midonet.2016-01-12-09.03.html | 09:47 |
| ryu25 | thanks everyone! | 09:47 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/midonet/2016/midonet.2016-01-12-09.03.txt | 09:47 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/midonet/2016/midonet.2016-01-12-09.03.log.html | 09:47 |
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| alex_xu | #startmeeting nova api | 12:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 12 12:00:05 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is alex_xu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 12:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 12:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_api' | 12:00 |
| alex_xu | who is here today? | 12:00 |
| oomichi | o/ | 12:00 |
| alex_xu | oomichi: hey :) | 12:01 |
| alex_xu | oomichi: are you already move to US? | 12:01 |
| oomichi | alex_xu: hi :) | 12:01 |
| jichen | o/ | 12:01 |
| oomichi | alex_xu: not yet. it is 11th/Feb :) | 12:01 |
| alex_xu | oomichi: cool! but sad, we lost one core in asia timezone :( | 12:02 |
| *** amotoki has quit IRC | 12:02 | |
| oomichi | alex_xu: ah, nice point | 12:02 |
| cdent | o/ | 12:02 |
| alex_xu | emm...super quiet in community in the recently | 12:02 |
| alex_xu | but let start the meeting | 12:02 |
| alex_xu | #topic content patches up for review | 12:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "content patches up for review (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:02 | |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:master+topic:bp/complete-todo-in-api-concept-doc,n,z | 12:02 |
| cdent | alex_xu: I think that's just the nature of january | 12:03 |
| alex_xu | we have some patch about server query, user, microversion for api concept doc | 12:03 |
| alex_xu | cdent: people didn't get work status yet? | 12:03 |
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| alex_xu | just need more review for those api concept doc | 12:03 |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/api-site+branch:master+topic:fix-compute-api-ref,n,z | 12:04 |
| oomichi | alex_xu: yeah, +1 | 12:04 |
| sdague | o/ | 12:04 |
| alex_xu | there are some nice fix from jichen | 12:04 |
| alex_xu | jichen: appreciate that, when I clear up the etherpad, also found a lot of review comment for the api ref :) | 12:04 |
| alex_xu | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-v2.1-api-doc | 12:05 |
| jichen | alex_xu: yeah, still need some patches for the comments :) | 12:05 |
| alex_xu | I did some cleanup for these etherpad, hope it's more clear | 12:05 |
| alex_xu | jichen: :) | 12:05 |
| alex_xu | #topic most needed next content patches | 12:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "most needed next content patches (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:05 | |
| jichen | ok, thanks ~ | 12:05 |
| alex_xu | not sure, but I will begin to write something for extension in api concept | 12:06 |
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| alex_xu | free to sign up, still have few todo, then api concept is very close | 12:06 |
| alex_xu | #topic remove project id | 12:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "remove project id (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:07 | |
| sdague | given that extensions are now deprecated, I wouldn't write about them much | 12:07 |
| sdague | we don't want people doing that | 12:07 |
| alex_xu | sdague: yea, I want to clear that, to tell people extension are deprecated | 12:07 |
| sdague | ok, on the remove project_id from urls effort, there is a wrinkle which has to do with overlapping routes | 12:08 |
| alex_xu | that sounds like that part will more easy to write :) | 12:08 |
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| sdague | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/256089 I was trying to figure out why randomly we'd fail 1 functional test that was doing a get of 'extensions/os-agents' | 12:09 |
| alex_xu | sdague: for legacy v2 mode? | 12:09 |
| sdague | no, for v2.1 | 12:09 |
| sdague | and because of the way we parse out '{project_id}' | 12:09 |
| sdague | which can be anything | 12:09 |
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| sdague | The following request: /v2.1/extensions/os-agents can either match to project_id == extensions, controller = os-agents | 12:10 |
| sdague | or project_id = None, controller = extensions | 12:10 |
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| alex_xu | emm...ok | 12:11 |
| sdague | there are about 5 extensions that produce this overlap | 12:11 |
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| sdague | this is because of how python routes module works | 12:12 |
| * alex_xu add that patch to review list | 12:12 | |
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| sdague | where it builds a giant routing regex - http://paste.openstack.org/show/483489/ | 12:12 |
| sdague | and we just get match answers at the end | 12:12 |
| cdent | sdague: were you able to roust anybody on that pull req? | 12:12 |
| sdague | cdent: dhellmann is following up on it, he knows the maintainer | 12:13 |
| cdent | dhellmann++ | 12:13 |
| alex_xu | cool | 12:13 |
| sdague | to be clear, the routes pull request don't solve this issue for us, it just gives us some new options | 12:13 |
| sdague | the problem is, project_id actually has no schema definition in openstack except string < 64 chars (keystone db constraint) | 12:14 |
| sdague | so even though uuid is expected from keystone, you can wedge other things in there | 12:14 |
| sdague | rax has ints | 12:14 |
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| cdent | Your suggestion of making it a configuration character class or something along those lines, makes sense. And make the default the most common (or better: most correct) thing? | 12:15 |
| oomichi | sdague: project-id of rax is integer? | 12:15 |
| sdague | oomichi: yes | 12:15 |
| oomichi | sdague: oh, surprised.. | 12:15 |
| sdague | cdent: yes. Given this is only an issue during overlap, I'm thinking about the smallest possible fix now, instead of the right one | 12:16 |
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| sdague | so even just requring project_id to be [0-9a-f]+ (i.e. hex of any sort) would kill the overlap | 12:17 |
| sdague | and would work fine for ints | 12:17 |
| sdague | that regex doesn't work without the routes fix though | 12:17 |
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| sdague | anyway, this remains an unsolved problem right now | 12:18 |
| alex_xu | sdague: ok, thanks for the update | 12:18 |
| alex_xu | so lets move on | 12:18 |
| alex_xu | #topic API futures - patches for approved specs | 12:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "API futures - patches for approved specs (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:19 | |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/257261 | 12:19 |
| alex_xu | I want to discuss this patch. I feel we are missing something. This patch adds the macs and ip type back to the API, due to we missing those fields when we port v2.1 API | 12:20 |
| jichen | yeah, you said : We should have a patch remove those extension name from extension API https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/api/openstack/compute/extension_info.py#L45-L46 | 12:20 |
| alex_xu | But the extension entry ExtendIPs and ExtendIPsMac still in the extension API | 12:20 |
| alex_xu | jichen: yea, I think we should those extension entries from extension API, and backport that patch. | 12:21 |
| alex_xu | because that will break the v2 legacy user. We assume legacy v2 user still use extension to detect whether the macs address and type in the API response | 12:22 |
| jichen | um... so they won't need extention anymore, just use the API microversion from then on? | 12:23 |
| oomichi | alex_xu: you are meaning we need to remove those extensions from "list extensions" API in this patch? | 12:23 |
| alex_xu | oomichi: yes | 12:23 |
| alex_xu | oomichi: no, a separated patch | 12:23 |
| oomichi | alex_xu: ok, in long term, it is nice to remove extensions. | 12:24 |
| alex_xu | jichen: yes, your patch just add two new fields in the api | 12:24 |
| oomichi | alex_xu: but I agree with that should be done with separated patch. | 12:24 |
| alex_xu | and we should backport it | 12:24 |
| oomichi | alex_xu: difficult to do that. that is not a bug. | 12:25 |
| sdague | honestly, I'm not thrilled with the changing of the ips sub resource | 12:25 |
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| sdague | it does what is expected today, lists ips | 12:25 |
| alex_xu | mac address looks like close to ip address is fine | 12:26 |
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| sdague | I disagree. | 12:26 |
| oomichi | I am fine on current implementation with bumping a microversion without removing those extensions. | 12:27 |
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| alex_xu | sdague: ok, you expected user get that from neutron? | 12:28 |
| sdague | alex_xu: or a new resource entirely | 12:29 |
| sdague | in the neutron case are we going to be making a call to neutron under the covers? | 12:29 |
| alex_xu | sdague: that sounds like extend more network API in nova | 12:30 |
| alex_xu | sdague: I guess that in the network cache | 12:30 |
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| sdague | yeh, I feel like we should be really careful about becoming the primary interface for more network info, and if we do, be really explicit about it. | 12:30 |
| sdague | it's also not hugely clear to me what the mac address does for the end user | 12:31 |
| cdent | I was going to ask that | 12:31 |
| cdent | ip, sure. mac addr, huh? | 12:31 |
| sdague | jichen: what was the use case you had here where you needed this data? | 12:31 |
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| jichen | I see this code used to be there with some comment and with an extension, so I think it would be helpful to add it | 12:32 |
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| sdague | jichen: because it was there once upon a time, isn't really a good reason | 12:33 |
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| sdague | what use case do you have for using this data | 12:33 |
| cdent | sorry, I have to go, will catch up with the logs later | 12:34 |
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| jichen | sdague: yeah, you are right, it's not a reason ; I just think ,someone might want to check mac address for some analysis purpose | 12:34 |
| sdague | jichen: I think we should put this on hold without a use case for it | 12:34 |
| sdague | because every interface we add we have to support forever | 12:35 |
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| sdague | so lets only do that if we really really need it | 12:35 |
| oomichi | this patch doesn't get approval of the corresponding nova-spec? | 12:35 |
| jichen | it's approved | 12:36 |
| alex_xu | no, we have a spec... | 12:36 |
| oomichi | can we see the url? | 12:36 |
| sdague | maybe, but I think it's ok for us to realize that we made a mistake | 12:36 |
| oomichi | as alex_xu said, the bp is not written on the commit message and we cannot see it easily now | 12:36 |
| jichen | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/247496/1/specs/mitaka/approved/ips-add-max-and-type.rst | 12:36 |
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| sdague | the spec is not approved | 12:37 |
| sdague | oh, old link | 12:37 |
| oomichi | oh, the spec doesn't contain the use case. | 12:37 |
| oomichi | even if I +1d.. | 12:38 |
| sdague | yeh, it just says this was in the v3 code | 12:38 |
| alex_xu | ok, learn that... | 12:38 |
| sdague | yeh, I want to reopen this conversation and have a use case for this | 12:38 |
| alex_xu | ok | 12:38 |
| oomichi | sdague: +1 for concrete use case | 12:38 |
| jichen | ok, I agree I am going to search for more info on original code on the user case | 12:39 |
| alex_xu | jichen: thanks | 12:39 |
| jichen | thanks a ll | 12:39 |
| jichen | all | 12:39 |
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| alex_xu | ok, any more want to bring up? | 12:39 |
| oomichi | sdague: related to project-id change, it is great to approve https://review.openstack.org/#/c/181393/ faster. | 12:40 |
| oomichi | sdague: how to get approve on the openstack-spec? | 12:40 |
| sdague | oomichi: it's on the TC agenda today | 12:40 |
| oomichi | it spec gets a lot of +2s already | 12:40 |
| oomichi | sdague: cool :) | 12:40 |
| sdague | yeh, we'll try to get that sorted | 12:41 |
| alex_xu | cool:) | 12:41 |
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| alex_xu | #topic open | 12:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:41 | |
| sdague | jichen: so, honestly, I would say unless there is a really compelling reason, don't bother. We shouldn't just add code because it was there before. | 12:41 |
| sdague | I -2ed the patch until we have a use case in the spec | 12:41 |
| jichen | sdague: yeah, I will try to find more info on that then update the spec if I have, thanks for the help~ | 12:42 |
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| alex_xu | cool | 12:42 |
| alex_xu | we are close to mid-cycle, so anything we want to talk about that? | 12:42 |
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| sdague | who all is going to be there? | 12:43 |
| sdague | o/ | 12:43 |
| alex_xu | o/ | 12:43 |
| * alex_xu go to mid-cycle first time~ | 12:43 | |
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| oomichi | sdague: alex_xu: cool :) I cannot make it at this time | 12:43 |
| alex_xu | oomichi: :( | 12:44 |
| oomichi | for preparing my live-migration to US | 12:44 |
| oomichi | anyways, enjoy the mid-cycle :) | 12:44 |
| alex_xu | oomichi: cool, good luck for live-migration, I guess that is block migration... | 12:45 |
| jichen | not far away but not able to :( enjoy ~ | 12:45 |
| eliqiao | cool oomichi , when will you do `live-migration`? | 12:45 |
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| oomichi | eliqiao: 11th/Feb | 12:45 |
| alex_xu | jichen: I thought you can, as you are more close to UK... | 12:45 |
| eliqiao | and city? | 12:45 |
| oomichi | San Jose, CA | 12:45 |
| alex_xu | anything we want to discuss at mid-cyle about api? | 12:46 |
| oomichi | alex_xu: how about fairy-slipper thing? | 12:46 |
| oomichi | I cannot understand it yet | 12:47 |
| sdague | yeh, that would be nice to know more about | 12:47 |
| alex_xu | oomichi: yea | 12:47 |
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| alex_xu | looks like it's on very early stage yet | 12:49 |
| jichen | any more info about fairy-slipper ? thanks | 12:49 |
| alex_xu | sdague: does mid-cycle meetup is same as summit design session? | 12:49 |
| jichen | just googled but not https://github.com/russell/fairy-slipper ? | 12:49 |
| sdague | alex_xu: we typically have a rolling agenda of an etherpad | 12:50 |
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| alex_xu | jichen: yea, that one | 12:50 |
| oomichi | jichen: https://github.com/openstack/fairy-slipper | 12:50 |
| alex_xu | yea, it move to openstack project, cool | 12:50 |
| jichen | oomichi: got it ,thanks~ | 12:50 |
| oomichi | jichen: and http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-January/083670.html | 12:51 |
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| alex_xu | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-nova-midcycle | 12:52 |
| alex_xu | ah, I found the link | 12:52 |
| alex_xu | There is API discussion at first day | 12:52 |
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| alex_xu | ok, i guess people just free to put the idea | 12:53 |
| alex_xu | if no more question, let us close the meeting early today | 12:53 |
| oomichi | thanks all | 12:53 |
| alex_xu | thanks all! | 12:53 |
| sdague | ok, thanks folks | 12:53 |
| jichen | thank you | 12:53 |
| alex_xu | #endmeeting | 12:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 12:53 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 12 12:53:53 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 12:53 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2016/nova_api.2016-01-12-12.00.html | 12:53 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2016/nova_api.2016-01-12-12.00.txt | 12:53 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2016/nova_api.2016-01-12-12.00.log.html | 12:53 |
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| saggi | #startmeeting | 13:59 |
| openstack | saggi: Error: A meeting name is required, e.g., '#startmeeting Marketing Committee' | 13:59 |
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| saggi | #startmeeting Smaug Biweekly | 13:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 12 13:59:28 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is saggi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Smaug Biweekly)" | 13:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'smaug_biweekly' | 13:59 |
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| saggi | #topic roll call | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: Smaug Biweekly)" | 14:00 | |
| chenying_ | Hi | 14:00 |
| saggi | Hi everyone | 14:00 |
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| zhonghua-lee | hi | 14:00 |
| zengyingzhe | o | 14:00 |
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| saggi | gampel is mid-flight so he will be missing this meeting | 14:00 |
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| saggi | are we waiting for anyone? | 14:01 |
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| saggi | Yinwei? | 14:01 |
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| zengyingzhe | Let's begin? | 14:01 |
| zhonghua-lee | is there any topic related yinwei? | 14:01 |
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| saggi | Protection Service tasks | 14:01 |
| zengyingzhe | Talk other topics first | 14:02 |
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| smcginnis | o/ | 14:02 |
| saggi | sure | 14:02 |
| zhonghua-lee | the first one? | 14:02 |
| saggi | #topic API, Last call for comments | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "API, Last call for comments (Meeting topic: Smaug Biweekly)" | 14:02 | |
| saggi | So I want to finalize the API soon | 14:02 |
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| zengyingzhe | There are some put methods to add. | 14:03 |
| zhonghua-lee | is it the last version now? | 14:03 |
| zengyingzhe | Please see Eran's comment. | 14:03 |
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| saggi | No, I have some minor comments from gampel. | 14:03 |
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| saggi | But I hope it's the last iteration | 14:04 |
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| saggi | smcginnis, I don't know if you are here but I would appreciate you giving it a second look. | 14:05 |
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| smcginnis | saggi: I will try to do that later today. | 14:05 |
| saggi | thanks | 14:05 |
| smcginnis | saggi: No problem. I'm travelling, so I might not get to it right away. | 14:05 |
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| smcginnis | But it's on my list now. :) | 14:05 |
| chenying_ | smcginnis: Thanks. | 14:05 |
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| saggi | So if people have any questions or comments please post them. Even if you don't understand something. It's very important as changing APIs is hard. | 14:06 |
| zengyingzhe | sure | 14:06 |
| smcginnis | saggi: Very true! | 14:06 |
| chenying_ | I see | 14:07 |
| zengyingzhe | Next topic? | 14:07 |
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| chenying_ | API service | 14:07 |
| chenying_ | Api resource controller design is in progress. | 14:07 |
| saggi | #topic API Service | 14:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "API Service (Meeting topic: Smaug Biweekly)" | 14:08 | |
| chenying_ | I plan to do api service design and resource controller development. | 14:08 |
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| zhonghua-lee | chenying_: wo can work together | 14:08 |
| saggi | chenying_: please coordinate with yinwei about serializers and other integration between the API and the protection service. | 14:08 |
| chenying_ | Ok | 14:09 |
| saggi | I see some stuff that appear to be duplicate effort between you two | 14:09 |
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| zhonghua-lee | saggi: you mean chenying_ and yinwei? | 14:10 |
| saggi | yes | 14:10 |
| saggi | Stuff that could be moved to common code between the services | 14:10 |
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| saggi | chenying_: All in all you are doing a good job | 14:11 |
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| saggi | chenying_: Is there anything you need from anyone else? | 14:11 |
| chenying_ | She has explained that serializers in manager is for bankplugin. | 14:11 |
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| saggi | I understand. Than we might need something that will also work for the plugins. I will think about it. | 14:12 |
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| chenying_ | I will coordinate with yinwei about it. | 14:13 |
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| saggi | Good, you will need to coordinate the schema transfer and other information from the checkpoint. | 14:13 |
| saggi | Should we move to Pluggable Proection Provider Q/A | 14:14 |
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| zengyingzhe | yes | 14:14 |
| saggi | #topic Pluggable Proection Provider Questions and Answers | 14:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Pluggable Proection Provider Questions and Answers (Meeting topic: Smaug Biweekly)" | 14:14 | |
| saggi | I posted the design doc about the pluggable protection provider. | 14:15 |
| saggi | This will be the reference implementation and recommended way to extend Smaug. | 14:15 |
| saggi | For cases where you need small modifications to the existing backup. | 14:15 |
| saggi | Are there any questions about the design? | 14:15 |
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| zengyingzhe | Continue the discussion this afternoon. create_checkpoint needs to add a checkpoint info parameter? | 14:16 |
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| zengyingzhe | right? | 14:16 |
| saggi | create_checkpoints get's a checkpoint info | 14:16 |
| saggi | In the post request | 14:17 |
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| zengyingzhe | But there gotta be a way to pass this info. | 14:17 |
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| saggi | zengyingzhe: I don't understand the question. | 14:17 |
| zengyingzhe | to create_checkpoint() | 14:17 |
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| zengyingzhe | Let | 14:18 |
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| saggi | zengyingzhe: Oh | 14:18 |
| zengyingzhe | Let's talk this latter | 14:18 |
| saggi | Now I understand what you are talking about | 14:18 |
| zengyingzhe | saggi, yes? | 14:19 |
| saggi | zengyingzhe: You are correct I need to change this in the diagram. | 14:19 |
| saggi | zengyingzhe: I kept thinking you are talking about the API diagram. | 14:19 |
| saggi | Completely my mistake. | 14:19 |
| saggi | I'm very sorry | 14:19 |
| saggi | I will fix it | 14:19 |
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| zengyingzhe | :) Don't be sorry. I explained it unclearly | 14:20 |
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| saggi | So please everyone, make sure you understand it. It's going to be the heart of Smaug so your comments are very important. | 14:21 |
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| saggi | Yinwei, and zengyingzhe are already doing a good job finding my mistakes :) | 14:21 |
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| zengyingzhe | And another one. I see create_checkpoint() is for protect operation, does there need other interfaces for restore or enable? | 14:22 |
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| saggi | zengyingzhe: Yes, it's missing. I thought I already did that but I guess I didn't. | 14:22 |
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| zengyingzhe | saggi, thanks. | 14:23 |
| saggi | Should we move to protection Service tasks | 14:23 |
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| saggi | ? | 14:23 |
| zengyingzhe | yinwei | 14:23 |
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| saggi | We'll start without her | 14:25 |
| saggi | #topic Protection Service tasks | 14:25 |
| zhonghua-lee | it seems she is not here | 14:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Protection Service tasks (Meeting topic: Smaug Biweekly)" | 14:25 | |
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| saggi | I've added tasks to the etherpad https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/smaug-bootsrap | 14:25 |
| zengyingzhe | what's this topic about? | 14:26 |
| saggi | This are things that we are more or less closed on how we want to do them | 14:26 |
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| saggi | So if you have time to do some coding. You should pick something from the list. | 14:26 |
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| chenzeng | can we move to operationengine? | 14:27 |
| saggi | The Protectables are low handing fruit as you can make a small tool and just make sure you can query openstack etc | 14:27 |
| saggi | #topic Operation Engine design status\ | 14:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Operation Engine design status\ (Meeting topic: Smaug Biweekly)" | 14:28 | |
| saggi | #topic Operation Engine design status | 14:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Operation Engine design status (Meeting topic: Smaug Biweekly)" | 14:28 | |
| chenzeng | today, I have finished the coding and simple tests of TimeTrigger. I will submit it this week. next, I will modify the design of OperationEngine, and finish the remaining coding. | 14:28 |
| chenzeng | one question. according to the discussing with saggi, OperationEngine need to track the operation. does it mean some operations like delete operation need finish its logic when executing it. | 14:28 |
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| saggi | Delete is simple as it just means to mark the checkpoint as deleted. Another pass will actually free all the resources asynchronously. | 14:29 |
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| saggi | This is because we want to assume atomic deletes. | 14:29 |
| saggi | s/assume/assure | 14:30 |
| chenzeng | yes, i aggree. | 14:30 |
| chenzeng | so, we need to encapsulate the logic into the operation class, right? | 14:31 |
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| saggi | What logic? | 14:31 |
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| saggi | The actual deletion pass, or GC (Garbage Collection) pass is done in Smaug independently from the operation. | 14:32 |
| chenzeng | the operation | 14:32 |
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| saggi | So the operation just needs to make sure it maked all the required checkpoints as deleted. This should be in the operation. For example if we need to mark 10 checkpoints and we crashed after the 5th we need to continue once we restart. | 14:33 |
| chenzeng | ok, understand. | 14:33 |
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| saggi | When creating multiple checkpoints. We also need to track those. | 14:34 |
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| zengyingzhe | So OperationEngine needs to record the progress of one operation to DB? | 14:34 |
| saggi | Yes. It needs to make sure it handles crashes in the middle of operations or cases where the trigger was missed. | 14:35 |
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| chenzeng | what is the meaning of " trigger was missed" | 14:36 |
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| saggi | You have a trigger at 00:00 and the host was down between 23:59 and 00:01. | 14:36 |
| saggi | In that case you will miss that daily backup | 14:36 |
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| chenzeng | i think operation class need to make sure the logic be finished correctly. | 14:37 |
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| saggi | Yes, and make sure it actually started | 14:37 |
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| saggi | And if you were down until 14:00 than you might not want to backup since it will stress the system during high load. So timed triggers should have a window of operation. | 14:38 |
| saggi | user defined window of operation | 14:38 |
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| chenying_ | saggi I have a question about Operation action. | 14:39 |
| chenying_ | In pluggable_protection_provider.pu this file. I note that enum Operation ony have protect, enable,disable,restore these action , but do not have 'delete'. Why? | 14:39 |
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| chenying_ | As a user he have a requirement deleting the backup data of a volume resource. | 14:40 |
| saggi | chenying_: I think I missed it | 14:40 |
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| chenying_ | OK I see | 14:40 |
| saggi | chenying_: Good catch! | 14:41 |
| saggi | #topic open discussion | 14:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: Smaug Biweekly)" | 14:41 | |
| chenzeng | saggi: can we use the crontab format for the timetrigger ? | 14:41 |
| chenying_ | I will do some review about the protection_provider later. | 14:41 |
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| chenzeng | i don't understand the rfc2445 | 14:42 |
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| saggi | http://www.kanzaki.com/docs/ical/rrule.html | 14:43 |
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| chenzeng | saggi:thanks | 14:44 |
| saggi | chenzeng: But you are right, crontab is simpler. | 14:44 |
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| saggi | I say we will start with crontab and see if users ask for the more complex features of ical\rrule | 14:45 |
| chenzeng | saggi:will we use crontab, or support both | 14:45 |
| zengyingzhe | rfc2445 is complex indeed. | 14:45 |
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| saggi | chenzeng: OK, I agree with you. crontab for now. | 14:46 |
| smcginnis | saggi: Speaking from experience from working on a data protection product in the past, user protection rules usually end up being more complex than cron can represent. | 14:46 |
| chenzeng | saggi:ok | 14:46 |
| saggi | smcginnis: hmmm | 14:46 |
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| smcginnis | But that said, I think it's probably simpler to start with cron and make it more complex later if that's what's needed. | 14:46 |
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| smcginnis | Probably better not to go for the more complex scheme right away. ;) | 14:46 |
| saggi | chenzeng, smcginnis: We'll add a format specifier in the trigger. crontab only for v1 | 14:47 |
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| smcginnis | saggi: +1 | 14:47 |
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| chenzeng | saggi:ok | 14:47 |
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| saggi | #action add format specifier for timed triggers | 14:48 |
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| saggi | Anything else? We have 10 more minutes! | 14:48 |
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| chenzeng | saggi:in order to make sure the consistance of operation, do you have any good ideas? | 14:49 |
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| saggi | Always persist before doing anything. Make sub operations that are either idempotent or sub operations you can always verify if they occurred or not. | 14:50 |
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| saggi | chenzeng: We could talk in #openstack-smaug about specific operations if you like | 14:50 |
| saggi | OK, that I think we are done. | 14:51 |
| chenzeng | saggi:ok | 14:51 |
| saggi | Thanks everyone | 14:51 |
| smcginnis | Thanks! | 14:51 |
| chenying_ | Thanks | 14:51 |
| chenzeng | thanks | 14:51 |
| zengyingzhe | Bye | 14:51 |
| saggi | I hope that next time yinwei will join us. | 14:51 |
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| saggi | #endmeeting | 14:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:52 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 12 14:52:07 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:52 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/smaug_biweekly/2016/smaug_biweekly.2016-01-12-13.59.html | 14:52 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/smaug_biweekly/2016/smaug_biweekly.2016-01-12-13.59.txt | 14:52 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/smaug_biweekly/2016/smaug_biweekly.2016-01-12-13.59.log.html | 14:52 |
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| armax | hello there | 14:59 |
| ihrachys | o/ | 14:59 |
| neiljerram | hi | 14:59 |
| ihrachys | at least that meeting will actually occur! yay | 14:59 |
| HenryG | 'allo 'allo | 15:00 |
| armax | amotoki, mestery, carl_baldwin, HenryG, dougwig, kevinbenton: you there? | 15:00 |
| vhoward | o/ | 15:00 |
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| armax | ihrachys: this is the drivers meeting | 15:00 |
| kevinbenton | hi | 15:00 |
| dougwig | here, but i have to divide between this meeting and getting the midcycle rolling | 15:00 |
| ihrachys | I know | 15:00 |
| ihrachys | armax: should I leave? :D | 15:00 |
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| * mestery waves | 15:00 | |
| armax | #startmeeting neutron_drivers | 15:00 |
| armax | ihrachys: no | 15:00 |
| kevinbenton | o\ \o o/ \o | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 12 15:00:29 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is armax. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_drivers)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_drivers' | 15:00 |
| kevinbenton | #agreed | 15:00 |
| * regXboi finds a seat in the back and starts snoring quietly | 15:00 | |
| dougwig | we should spend 58 minutes on meeting times. | 15:00 |
| mestery | \m/ ( -_- ) \m/ | 15:01 |
| mestery | dougwig: One can dream | 15:01 |
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| armax | mestery: I was dreaming only a few minutes ago | 15:01 |
| regXboi | mestery: I want to see the ascii art for "rock concert movement #1" | 15:01 |
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| mestery | lol | 15:01 |
| njohnston | o/ | 15:01 |
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| armax | let’s go over the list of triaged bugs | 15:02 |
| armax | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bugs?field.status%3Alist=Triaged&field.tag=rfe&orderby=datecreated&start=0 | 15:02 |
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| armax | in order they have been submitted | 15:02 |
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| carl_baldwin | Hi | 15:02 |
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| armax | bug #1370033 | 15:02 |
| openstack | bug 1370033 in neutron "Admin should be able to manually select the active instance of a HA router" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1370033 - Assigned to Hong Hui Xiao (xiaohhui) | 15:02 |
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| armax | this was approved and then shot down | 15:03 |
| armax | carl_baldwin reinstated it | 15:03 |
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| armax | but amuller is not in the room | 15:03 |
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| carl_baldwin | armax: I almost marked as won't fix but I thought I'd bring it up today. | 15:03 |
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| kevinbenton | why did it get shot down? | 15:04 |
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| armax | any strong reason why we’d keep looking at this one? | 15:04 |
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| carl_baldwin | I don't think a strong use case for manually intervening has been made yet. | 15:05 |
| armax | kevinbenton: amuller (reporter) realized that wasn’t a strong use case | 15:05 |
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| armax | and the admin pain could be dealt with differently | 15:05 |
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| kevinbenton | ok, i'll defer to carl_baldwin on this then | 15:05 |
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| armax | as to what was proposed in the spec | 15:05 |
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| carl_baldwin | But, I've heard the request from customers. I've asked to push back on that request to see if there is really a strong use case. | 15:06 |
| amuller | I need a calendar reminder for this meeting | 15:06 |
| ajo | amuller : http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/calendars/neutron-drivers-meeting.ics | 15:07 |
| ajo | :-) | 15:07 |
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| carl_baldwin | So, I'm thinking of marking won't fix for the time being. What do you think? | 15:07 |
| armax | carl_baldwin: as far as I understand this is a typical example of something that could be scripted | 15:07 |
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| armax | on top of existing API’s? | 15:08 |
| carl_baldwin | armax: I don't think there is an API to set it. Isn't that what it asks for? | 15:08 |
| ajo | I think it's not scriptable, but I also agree there's probably no strong use case | 15:08 |
| ajo | (hi btw) :) | 15:08 |
| amuller | you can kinda use the admin-level add/remove routers to do this | 15:08 |
| carl_baldwin | amuller: good point | 15:09 |
| amuller | also from reading the spec I think we'll need to enable preempt in keepalived.conf in order for the priority field to be used | 15:09 |
| amuller | which is something I don't want to do | 15:09 |
| dougwig | manually picking is something that is abnormal in HA, but kind of an expected primitive. | 15:09 |
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| ajo | I guess it can be used to balance traffic across network nodes | 15:10 |
| mestery | dougwig: ++ | 15:10 |
| mestery | dougwig: But don't let common sense get in the way :) | 15:10 |
| amuller | it it's current iteration the spec doesn't mention an API change btw | 15:11 |
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| amuller | it's just a scheduler change, but the way to enforce it on the keepalived level is problematic | 15:11 |
| armax | amuller, carl_baldwin: I think the use case is reasonable but how it’s tackled doesn’t let us see the end in sight | 15:11 |
| armax | anyhow we should continue the discussion offline | 15:11 |
| armax | it looks like we still have no consensus on this one | 15:12 |
| kevinbenton | tag it as low-hanging-fruit for new contributors :) | 15:12 |
| armax | kevinbenton: bad idea | 15:12 |
| armax | this is not a trivial fix | 15:12 |
| kevinbenton | mid-hanging-fruit? | 15:12 |
| armax | #bug 1505631 | 15:12 |
| openstack | bug 1505631 in neutron "QoS VLAN 802.1p Support" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1505631 | 15:12 |
| armax | bug #1505631 | 15:12 |
| ihrachys | armax: not sure what you meant by saying qos is limited to hypervisor | 15:13 |
| armax | ihrachys: if I understand the proposal of the submitter correctly | 15:13 |
| armax | ihrachys: he’s suggesting to control QoS at the switch | 15:13 |
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| armax | not the vswitch on the hypervisor | 15:13 |
| ihrachys | really?.. | 15:14 |
| ihrachys | where is that? Is that what 'ECN' abbreviation means? | 15:14 |
| armax | but I might be wrong | 15:14 |
| * ihrachys sees it the first time | 15:14 | |
| ajo | he's suggesting to mark packets with an specific vlan 802.1p priority | 15:14 |
| ihrachys | my understanding is proposal is about tagging frames; then tags may be used by external switches | 15:15 |
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| ajo | it's the same thing as dscp, just different technology. | 15:15 |
| neiljerram | ECN is Explicit Congestion Notification, I believe | 15:15 |
| armax | ajo: where do we stand on the dscp implementation? | 15:15 |
| amuller | super similar to dscp no? just at the ethernet level instead of ip | 15:15 |
| ihrachys | it's just another mechanism for the same thing | 15:15 |
| dougwig | when are vlans created that you'd want to specify priority, inside neutron? differing priorities for tenant vlans? provider vlans are created outside neutron. | 15:15 |
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| neiljerram | #link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explicit_Congestion_Notification | 15:16 |
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| ajo | armax , njohnston can probably update better about DSCP, I need to sync with them, but I believe it was on good fit | 15:16 |
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| ihrachys | armax: it has chances for M, but it has several missing pieces | 15:16 |
| ihrachys | armax: like upgrade for rpc callbacks or l2 agent extension thing | 15:16 |
| ihrachys | but I think we track it all | 15:17 |
| ajo | about dependencies, correct | 15:17 |
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| ajo | dougwig , I think he means tagging the traffic that goes to the switches | 15:17 |
| armax | I suppose that this proposal could complements DSCP | 15:18 |
| njohnston | Yes, the dscp code is coming along well I think, but those prerequisites are concerns for getting it into M. The DSCP change is concerned with bits 2-7 of the DiffServ field in the IP header; this change proposes to maange bits 0 and 1 as well. | 15:18 |
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| armax | at the l2 level | 15:18 |
| ajo | armax : right | 15:18 |
| dougwig | ajo: for tenant networks? can't the switch auto-tag all of that? for providers? wouldn't you set that up in ovs manually at network creation time? where is the use case? | 15:18 |
| armax | but from an API perspective it’s too tightly coupled to the underlying l2 isolation technology | 15:18 |
| armax | of choice | 15:18 |
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| armax | so I am not sure it’s a good fit | 15:19 |
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| dougwig | kevinbenton told me to say "timebox". | 15:19 |
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| ajo | armax : correct, we may analyze that, probably it's better to postpone VLAN 802.1p to be evaluated for N | 15:19 |
| njohnston | I think it's reasonable to ask for a solid use case for why this is important to do. | 15:19 |
| armax | well, I wonder if we should shoot it down entirely…but I’ll continue the discussion on the bug report | 15:19 |
| ajo | because it introduces a dependency from the policy to the type of tenant isolation (or extenral network type) | 15:20 |
| ajo | armax : ack | 15:20 |
| armax | bug #1507499 | 15:20 |
| openstack | bug 1507499 in neutron "Centralized Management System for testing the environment" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1507499 | 15:20 |
| ihrachys | valid concern | 15:20 |
| ajo | njohnston ++ | 15:20 |
| armax | which duplicates somewhat bug 1519537 | 15:20 |
| openstack | bug 1507499 in neutron "duplicate for #1519537 Centralized Management System for testing the environment" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1507499 | 15:20 |
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| regXboi | wait | 15:21 |
| ihrachys | for that one, I know a new guy in Red Hat team works on something similar and should come up with exact plan for neutron-debug in next days. | 15:21 |
| regXboi | did I just read a request for a use case for why its a good idea to support an IEEE standard?!?!?! | 15:21 |
| kevinbenton | regXboi: 802.11 is an IEEE standard, but we aren't defined SSID APIs yet :) | 15:22 |
| dougwig | regXboi: yes, because in the neutron api context, i'm not sure it makes sense just to tick a checkbox. | 15:22 |
| * regXboi remains stunned into near insensibility | 15:22 | |
| armax | ihrachys: are you saying that a new RFE is going to be submitted? | 15:22 |
| kevinbenton | i'm not sure why something that logs into VMs to run pings should live in Neutron | 15:22 |
| dougwig | regXboi: if it's so obvious, it should be dead easy to do, right? | 15:22 |
| ihrachys | armax: I guess you suggest not to ;) | 15:22 |
| ihrachys | armax: I will communicate the bug number to the guy :) | 15:23 |
| kevinbenton | couldn't troubleshooting live in a separate project or at least a completely separate service plugin? | 15:23 |
| regXboi | kevinbenton: ++ on the VMs running pings living in Neutron comment | 15:23 |
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| armax | ihrachys: no I think here we should discuss whether creating a set of tools to troubleshoot connectivity issues belong to NEutron first | 15:23 |
| ihrachys | kevinbenton: should be decoupled, yes. | 15:23 |
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| armax | and then how we go about it :) | 15:23 |
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| kevinbenton | makes sense, i can see making some internal APIs to help inspect state that a troubleshooting service plugin could call | 15:24 |
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| ihrachys | armax: well, there is a lot of knowledge here internalized by neutron, and there is an established orchestration bus | 15:24 |
| amuller | There's an argument to be made to having a neutron-maintained troubleshooting tool | 15:24 |
| amuller | shows we're serious as a community to make Neutron more usable | 15:24 |
| amuller | I don't know about going in to VMs, but that's another manner :) | 15:25 |
| kevinbenton | that's fine, but it doesn't need to be in neutron | 15:25 |
| dougwig | 1 minute remaining on the timebox for this one. | 15:25 |
| ihrachys | kevinbenton: neither neutron-debug | 15:25 |
| armax | I think we need to scope this one better to judge whether it can be part of neutron or not | 15:26 |
| mestery | We're going to put things into tenant VMs? Are we nuts? | 15:26 |
| mestery | Who in their right mind would allow that? | 15:26 |
| mestery | What tenant I mean? | 15:26 |
| ihrachys | personally, I would be ok having it a separate but blessed subproject | 15:26 |
| regXboi | mestery: we shouldn't do that | 15:26 |
| armax | ihrachys: where it lives is not so much important if we don’t agree where we draw the line | 15:26 |
| regXboi | but, we should be able to do the equiv of telecom fault isolation | 15:26 |
| ihrachys | mestery: not VMs. we will tinker with switch | 15:26 |
| amuller | Can we present specifics before we decide where it should live? | 15:26 |
| amuller | otherwise how can you decide if it's in the scope of neutron or not? | 15:27 |
| kevinbenton | this blueprint mentions running ping in VMs | 15:27 |
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| ihrachys | bad, bad blueprint | 15:27 |
| mestery | amuller: ++, not sure why this needs to be in neutron at all | 15:27 |
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| ihrachys | let's postpone that one, there are no details and no agreement here | 15:27 |
| amuller | kevinbenton: we had something very different in mind | 15:27 |
| armax | ok it’s clear that the existing proposal may not be ideal but we’re still interested in augumenting our ability to troubleshoot connectivity issues | 15:27 |
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| kevinbenton | amuller: file a blueprint describing your plan | 15:28 |
| armax | ihrachys: we might even shoot it down in the existing form, asking the submitter or whomever interested to come up with a different proposal | 15:28 |
| kevinbenton | amuller: because it sounds different from this one | 15:28 |
| amuller | kevinbenton: we're still working out the details but we will | 15:28 |
| kevinbenton | amuller: s/blueprint/rfe | 15:28 |
| ihrachys | armax: as you wish, I don't mind killing old artifacts | 15:28 |
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| ihrachys | not that the idea would be lost if it's killed | 15:29 |
| armax | ihrachys: it keeps things tidy | 15:29 |
| regXboi | armax: I will point out that bug 1519537 is a bit more specific about the troubleshooting items it is looking for, so it may not be a dup | 15:29 |
| openstack | bug 1507499 in neutron "duplicate for #1519537 Centralized Management System for testing the environment" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1507499 | 15:29 |
| armax | next bug | 15:29 |
| armax | bug #1507846 | 15:29 |
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| openstack | bug 1507846 in neutron "Filtering ICMP packet based on ICMP code" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1507846 | 15:29 |
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| armax | is sc68cal around? | 15:29 |
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| ihrachys | security group API extension? I am sure sc68cal will love it | 15:29 |
| kevinbenton | i thought the port field with icmp already allows exactly this? | 15:30 |
| armax | ihrachys: not quite a security group api extension | 15:30 |
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| ihrachys | oh fwaas? ok. | 15:30 |
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| armax | sounds like no-one feels strongly about this one | 15:31 |
| regXboi | armax: I thought the last message put it back in the camp of the filer? | 15:31 |
| kevinbenton | i think it needs more triage | 15:31 |
| armax | ok | 15:32 |
| kevinbenton | our iptables firewall internal API can certainly do this if i understand it | 15:32 |
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| kevinbenton | and i think it's exposed via security groups as ports on ICMP rules | 15:32 |
| armax | kevinbenton: ok, that’s good feedback | 15:32 |
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| armax | kevinbenton: not 100% sure that’s what the user is asking but we can provide this back on the bug report | 15:33 |
| armax | bug #1508155 | 15:33 |
| openstack | bug 1508155 in neutron "NFTables Firewall Driver" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1508155 | 15:33 |
| * sc68cal looks | 15:34 | |
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| armax | anyone feels strongly against an NFTable based firewall driver for linuxbridge? | 15:35 |
| ihrachys | let them do it | 15:35 |
| ajo | no feel against it (for linuxbridge) | 15:35 |
| armax | I assume we’ll keep the strategy for ovs firewalling unchanged | 15:36 |
| sc68cal | hang on, why are they trying to sell nftables as a way to do floating IPs for ipv6 | 15:36 |
| ihrachys | yeah, for ovs it's a different story (there are already two new drivers proposed in gerrit) | 15:36 |
| kevinbenton | sc68cal: they said it's possible, not the reason for the switch though | 15:36 |
| armax | sc68cal: the guy was just making conversation ;) | 15:37 |
| armax | sc68cal: don’t read too much into it | 15:37 |
| armax | at least that’s how I interpreted it | 15:37 |
| kevinbenton | ihrachys, ajo: if it's a firewall driver, there wouldn't be anything stopping people from using it with OVS i don't think | 15:37 |
| sc68cal | I mean if someone wants to write it - my concern is just having CI to test it | 15:37 |
| regXboi | so we are talking (in theory) about conntrack for ovs and nftables for LB? | 15:37 |
| armax | regXboi: that’s the idea, yes | 15:37 |
| * regXboi thinks about that | 15:38 | |
| ajo | kevinbenton : I think supporting the whole matrix could be a mess | 15:38 |
| kevinbenton | also, the OVS support for conntrack is still dependent on specific OVS versions and kernel drivers | 15:38 |
| ihrachys | kevinbenton: I mean, yeah. just that there is some OTHER use case for that driver (if that would be just ovs, we could probably say it's better to have e.g. just flows based) | 15:38 |
| armax | the question is: do we want a more performant firwall driver for linuxbridge? | 15:38 |
| armax | the answer is yes | 15:38 |
| armax | and that can’t be the ovsfirewall | 15:38 |
| armax | so it’s gotta be something else | 15:38 |
| kevinbenton | ajo: so nftables is worse than iptables in the hybrid ovs bridge? | 15:39 |
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| kevinbenton | (not kernel drivers, kernel code) | 15:39 |
| ajo | kevinbenton : we could try when they implement it, I haven't tried it | 15:39 |
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| regXboi | I think ihrachys may have nailed it then: let them do it | 15:39 |
| armax | ajo: you’re assuming we have already candidates willing to implement this? | 15:39 |
| kevinbenton | if we went this way, i would advocate for this to replace our iptables stuff completely | 15:39 |
| armax | how optmistic! | 15:39 |
| ajo | kevinbenton : but I'd assume, new drivers = new bugs => more things to support. | 15:40 |
| sc68cal | ^ +1 | 15:40 |
| kevinbenton | so no new OVS firewall driver then! | 15:40 |
| kevinbenton | :) | 15:40 |
| ajo | kevinbenton : fair point | 15:40 |
| ajo | iptables forever | 15:40 |
| armax | kevinbenton: eventually iptables stuff will be superseded by nftable on linuxbridge and ovsfirewall on ovs | 15:40 |
| ajo | :-) | 15:40 |
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| armax | if they both prove to be more performance and simpler to deploy | 15:41 |
| ajo | yes, once they prove stable, that seems like a reasonable thing to do | 15:41 |
| armax | but | 15:41 |
| ajo | (there's always a but.) | 15:41 |
| armax | there might be a chance we would end up keeping the iptables drivers for a very long time | 15:41 |
| armax | anyhoo | 15:41 |
| armax | that’s beyond this discussion | 15:41 |
| kevinbenton | i'd say let them start doing it | 15:41 |
| kevinbenton | i will review their code | 15:42 |
| armax | ok, it seems we now would need to find a volunteer | 15:42 |
| regXboi | does this make sense as a feature branch then so that we can do performance comparisons at the end? | 15:42 |
| armax | bug #1508243 | 15:42 |
| openstack | bug 1508243 in neutron "Store Private Key Passphrase in Neutron-LBaaS for TLS Terminations" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1508243 | 15:42 |
| kevinbenton | regXboi: no need, it would just be separate driver not replacing anything | 15:42 |
| ajo | I agree with kevinbenton, I don't mind reviewing it a bit too (curious about how nftables works) | 15:42 |
| armax | dougwig: a reminder for you | 15:42 |
| regXboi | kevinbenton: thx | 15:42 |
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| ihrachys | feature branches are heavy, let's not | 15:42 |
| dougwig | we're going to argue this one here at the midcycle shortly. most people think its not worth it. | 15:43 |
| armax | dougwig: you told us you were going to figure out what to do with this one at the mid-cycle | 15:43 |
| armax | ok | 15:43 |
| ajo | this is probably a single patch and pluggable (firewall driver interface) regXboi , so let's avoid feature branches, that's heavy | 15:43 |
| dougwig | we literally got started 5 minutes ago. gimme a few. :) | 15:43 |
| armax | dougwig: I won’t shoot it down right now | 15:43 |
| armax | :) | 15:43 |
| armax | bug #1509046 | 15:43 |
| openstack | bug 1509046 in neutron "Refactoring of L3 Scheduler" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1509046 - Assigned to Aman Kumar (amank) | 15:43 |
| kevinbenton | i don't see a reason not to try to unify the schedulers a bit | 15:44 |
| armax | personally I am not sure if code refactoring fall in the RFE category | 15:44 |
| armax | I guess this is a matter of: can we support the submitter in the code review that would clean this stuff up? | 15:45 |
| kevinbenton | yeah, i could see wanting load based scheduling being an RFE | 15:45 |
| armax | I’d say the answer should be yes | 15:45 |
| carl_baldwin | I can review | 15:45 |
| armax | kevinbenton: we have that already | 15:45 |
| armax | kevinbenton: this bug doesn’t affect that | 15:45 |
| kevinbenton | ok, then i agree this doesn't really need to be tracked as an RFE | 15:46 |
| armax | ok, based on amotoki’s feedback, let’s see what the code looks like | 15:46 |
| armax | bug #1516156 | 15:46 |
| openstack | bug 1516156 in neutron "IPAM migration from non-pluggable to pluggable" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1516156 | 15:46 |
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| ihrachys | no-brainer? | 15:47 |
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| armax | ihrachys: yeah, but I suppose this would need a spec? | 15:47 |
| ihrachys | would it be a copy of comment #6? | 15:47 |
| armax | I’d hope it’d be a little more elaborated than that | 15:48 |
| armax | but sure | 15:48 |
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| armax | we can get on with this | 15:48 |
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| carl_baldwin | ++ | 15:48 |
| armax | bug #1521194 | 15:48 |
| openstack | bug 1521194 in neutron "Qos Aggregated Bandwidth Rate Limiting" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1521194 | 15:49 |
| armax | this one is still unclear to me | 15:49 |
| ihrachys | that one, I am really confused. There was a spec with a proposal that seems to me too naive; and there is no explanation how to implement anything other than naive approach. | 15:49 |
| armax | it sounds to me that this wouldn’t have been submitted if we had stuff documented properly | 15:50 |
| ajo | The current behaviour was documented clearly and discussed in the community | 15:50 |
| ajo | it could be missleading, but it's documented | 15:50 |
| ajo | not sure why we want to change it now. | 15:50 |
| ihrachys | armax: I still wait for someone to show where it's documented badly | 15:50 |
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| armax | ajo: can you provide me with a pointer? | 15:51 |
| ajo | I agree with ihrachys , such a thing could be implemented as a separate rule, when we're ready to do that | 15:51 |
| armax | ajo: we can then put in the bug report | 15:51 |
| ajo | armax , sure, sec | 15:51 |
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| armax | and perhaps be done with this | 15:51 |
| ajo | I think it's both in the devref and networking guide | 15:51 |
| ihrachys | ajo: ... and for a separate rule, that would require huge (!) pile of code | 15:51 |
| armax | ajo: perhaps is not super cler | 15:51 |
| armax | clear | 15:51 |
| ajo | http://docs.openstack.org/liberty/networking-guide/adv_config_qos.html | 15:52 |
| ajo | "You can attach networks to a QoS policy. The meaning of this is that any compute port connected to the network will use the network policy by default unless the port has a specific policy attached to it. Network owned ports like dhcp and router ports are excluded from network policy application." | 15:52 |
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| ihrachys | ajo: should we add an explicit note that it's NOT the aggregated limit? | 15:52 |
| armax | ajo: this doesn’t mention anything on how the problem the author states though | 15:53 |
| ajo | may be ihrachys is right, and we should add a note about that specific | 15:53 |
| ihrachys | armax: it's a separate feature, there is nothing wrong about how current one is implemented or documented | 15:53 |
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| armax | ihrachys: I am not saying it’s wrong | 15:53 |
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| armax | ihrachys: but the existing documentation is ambiguous | 15:53 |
| ihrachys | armax: now, the general idea of the RFE is great. I just don't see how we implement it in any meaningful way. | 15:53 |
| ajo | ihrachys : it could be implemented, but I'm not sure the use cases will pay for the development time of something like that. | 15:54 |
| ihrachys | armax: I can't see it. Do you have a better wording? | 15:54 |
| armax | ihrachys: not on the top of my head | 15:54 |
| ihrachys | armax: ok, how about posting the link and asking the reporter to provide a better wording? | 15:55 |
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| armax | for this one, let’s figure out if the author still wants to pursue the per-port bw limit after we better specified how QoS policies are applied | 15:55 |
| armax | fair? | 15:55 |
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| ajo | sounds reasonable. | 15:56 |
| ihrachys | armax: there is per port limit | 15:56 |
| ihrachys | armax: just not aggregated from network | 15:56 |
| ajo | I assumed armax meaned per-network (aggregated) | 15:56 |
| ihrachys | but yeah, generally let's give the reporter a chance to show it's really useful to spin on it further | 15:57 |
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| armax | ihrachys: yeah..I am still sleepy | 15:57 |
| armax | ok last one | 15:57 |
| armax | for today | 15:57 |
| armax | bug #1521783 | 15:57 |
| openstack | bug 1521783 in neutron "RfE: Cascading delete for LBaaS Objects" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1521783 | 15:57 |
| armax | dougwig: ^ | 15:58 |
| armax | I am personally starting to loathe these orchestration calls | 15:58 |
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| armax | when we have native api’s that can be used in order to achieve the same task | 15:58 |
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| dougwig | not high priority. the use case is simpler UIs. | 15:59 |
| ihrachys | I am with armax here | 15:59 |
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| armax | ok | 15:59 |
| armax | killed | 15:59 |
| armax | I’ll capture the outcome of this meeting on the discussed bug reports | 15:59 |
| armax | thanks for joining | 15:59 |
| armax | have a good day/evening! | 15:59 |
| armax | #endmeeting | 15:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 12 15:59:59 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
| ihrachys | \o | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2016/neutron_drivers.2016-01-12-15.00.html | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2016/neutron_drivers.2016-01-12-15.00.txt | 16:00 |
| *** _amrith_ is now known as amrith | 16:00 | |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2016/neutron_drivers.2016-01-12-15.00.log.html | 16:00 |
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| ajo | have a good day too! | 16:04 |
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| asselin | #startmeeting third-party | 17:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 12 17:03:04 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is asselin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 17:03 |
| ja3 | moin moin asselin | 17:03 |
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| asselin | hi, anyone here for 3rd party working group meeting? | 17:03 |
| asselin | hi ja3 | 17:03 |
| ja3 | 3rd party, aye | 17:03 |
| mmedvede | o/ | 17:03 |
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| asselin | happy new year everyone | 17:03 |
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| mmedvede | +1 | 17:03 |
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| asselin | #link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ThirdParty#Agenda_for_next_Working_Group_meeting | 17:04 |
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| asselin | #topic announcements | 17:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:04 | |
| asselin | anyone have any announcements? | 17:04 |
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| asselin | I would like to share that the 3rd party ci docs are now officially published | 17:05 |
| asselin | #link published 3rd party ci docs: http://docs.openstack.org/infra/openstackci/third_party_ci.html | 17:05 |
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| asselin | #topic ci-watch | 17:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ci-watch (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:06 | |
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| mmedvede | yay for ci docs! | 17:07 |
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| mmedvede | I did update puppet-ciwatch, | 17:07 |
| asselin | yeah, I think it's a much nicer read :) | 17:07 |
| mmedvede | #link initial puppet-ciwatch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/238606/ | 17:08 |
| ja3 | sounds like the review gauntlet being thrown down again there, asselin | 17:09 |
| asselin | yeah, looking forward! | 17:09 |
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| asselin | mmedvede, +1 | 17:10 |
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| asselin | mmedvede, any other open reviews? | 17:10 |
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| mmedvede | asselin: not yet. Back from a long vaca :) | 17:11 |
| mmedvede | but I am working on adding unit testing. it is proving to be hard | 17:12 |
| asselin | mmedvede, do you want to share a wip patch? what are the challenges? | 17:12 |
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| mmedvede | asselin: I have started refactoring config implementation first. Could push wip, definitely | 17:14 |
| mmedvede | I mentioned before, as is, the code is not testable | 17:14 |
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| mmedvede | maybe config testing is too low level, and we should add more useful tests, e.g. to the event parsing | 17:15 |
| asselin | yeah, I'd like to help out without duplicating effort | 17:15 |
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| mmedvede | it is circular - hard to refactor without tests, and hard to write tests for existing code. Could start with failing test cases probably | 17:19 |
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| asselin | I think that's fine. | 17:20 |
| asselin | we could create a feature branch if you prefer to develop it there | 17:21 |
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| mmedvede | are we able to create it ourselves? | 17:23 |
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| asselin | probably not, but we can ask in infra | 17:23 |
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| mmedvede | asselin: also on ciwatch, I do not mind this to merge: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/258125/ | 17:26 |
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| asselin | mmedvede, ok, then I think we should merge it. | 17:28 |
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| asselin | #action asselin to request a feature branch for ci-watch to refactor for testability | 17:28 |
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| asselin | mmedvede, anything else? | 17:29 |
| mmedvede | no | 17:29 |
| asselin | ok I did create some blueprints for ci-watch | 17:29 |
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| asselin | #link ci-watch blueprints: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ciwatch | 17:30 |
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| asselin | i kept these minimal so we can track and develop them further using launchpad instead of the wiki page. | 17:30 |
| asselin | but first priority is testability imo | 17:31 |
| apoorvad | hi | 17:31 |
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| asselin | hi apoorvad | 17:31 |
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| apoorvad | Usually I miss the first half due to conflict. I would be able to chip in to testing as mmedvede mentioned | 17:32 |
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| mmedvede | asselin: thank you for the blueprints | 17:33 |
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| asselin | apoorvad, ok we're going to create a feature branch so facilitate testability. | 17:34 |
| asselin | any preferences on branch name? | 17:34 |
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| apoorvad | asselin: cool. ciwatch-dev ? | 17:34 |
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| mmedvede | asselin: would it be temp branch just to implement initial tests? | 17:35 |
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| asselin | mmedvede, I can see it two ways | 17:36 |
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| asselin | we create the branch, and commit to it as usual. When we're happy, we merge it to master, or squash it, and proposed that as a patch to master. | 17:36 |
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| asselin | if we squash it, it would be temporary. If we don't....actually not sure if git keeps the branch name | 17:37 |
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| asselin | I guess it doesn't...so the name wouldn't stick. we can delete the branch after we merge it. | 17:38 |
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| mmedvede | asselin: I thought merges were a bit hard with gerrit | 17:39 |
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| asselin | I would prefer to have 'test' in the branch name, or something that hints at testability | 17:39 |
| mmedvede | e.g. you can not review a merge commit | 17:39 |
| mmedvede | unless it changed | 17:39 |
| clarkb | mmedvede: can you expand on that? you definitely can review emrge commits | 17:39 |
| mmedvede | asselin: +1 for more specific branch name | 17:39 |
| asselin | clarkb, can we simply merge a feature branch to master in gerrit? | 17:40 |
| clarkb | asselin: ya, you push it like any other change, it gets reviewed, and merges just like anything else | 17:40 |
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| asselin | clarkb, so you push the n commits of it? or something else? | 17:41 |
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| clarkb | there are two major considerations, the first is we don't allow pushing merge commits by default but can delegate that to individuals and the diff shows in the change for a merge commits shows you the conflicts iirc | 17:41 |
| clarkb | asselin: well you push the n commits of it to branch testfoo, they merge there | 17:41 |
| clarkb | asselin: then you merge testfoo into master and push that commit as a change against master | 17:41 |
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| mmedvede | clarkb: That is great I am wrong. Not sure where I got it from | 17:41 |
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| asselin | clarkb, and we need special permissions to do that? | 17:42 |
| clarkb | asselin: you need special permissions to push merge commits yes | 17:42 |
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| clarkb | but we give those out when projects use feature branches | 17:42 |
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| mmedvede | clarkb: but do you need special permissions to submit merge commits for review? | 17:43 |
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| clarkb | mmedvede: yes | 17:43 |
| clarkb | but thats not a big deal, we give them out regularly | 17:43 |
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| clarkb | that permission is not on by default because it helps avoid problems with people pushing up trees that have had implicit merges locally from eg git pull | 17:44 |
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| asselin | clarkb, and to create a feature branch, we just ask for on in -infra? | 17:45 |
| asselin | one* | 17:45 |
| clarkb | yes | 17:45 |
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| asselin | clarkb, thanks for the clarification | 17:46 |
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| asselin | ok, so back to branch names | 17:49 |
| mmedvede | asselin: I suggests to name the branch "tests" | 17:49 |
| asselin | or unit-tests | 17:50 |
| mmedvede | and then merge/delete it once initial testing is implemented | 17:50 |
| mmedvede | asselin: or unit-tests | 17:50 |
| asselin | +1 | 17:50 |
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| apoorvad | +1 | 17:50 |
| clarkb | the name should have a feature/ prefix to follow convention | 17:50 |
| asselin | feature/unit-tests | 17:50 |
| clarkb | probably less important here, but nice to follow anyways | 17:50 |
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| asselin | #action asselin to request -infra for feature/unit-tests branch created after merging any outstanding reviews we'd like to start with | 17:52 |
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| asselin | anything else on this topic? | 17:53 |
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| asselin | #topic Common-CI Solution | 17:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Common-CI Solution (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:54 | |
| asselin | #link Cannot run jobs on jenkins master: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/252768/ | 17:54 |
| asselin | #link Zuul cannot connect to openstack gerrit: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/266041/ | 17:54 |
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| asselin | just needs some reviews ^^ | 17:55 |
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| asselin | #topic open discussion | 17:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:56 | |
| ja3 | nothing on my end | 17:56 |
| asselin | anything else to discuss? | 17:56 |
| mmedvede | asselin: was the zuul patch tested? (266041) | 17:56 |
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| mmedvede | I guess you are not the author :) | 17:57 |
| asselin | I did not test it, but patrick-east did. I can test it quickly today | 17:57 |
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| asselin | ok, if nothing else we can end the meeting. | 17:58 |
| mmedvede | thank you, asselin | 17:58 |
| asselin | #endmeeting | 17:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 12 17:59:10 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-01-12-17.03.html | 17:59 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-01-12-17.03.txt | 17:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-01-12-17.03.log.html | 17:59 |
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| lbragstad | stevemar o/ | 18:00 |
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| tsymanczyk | \o | 18:00 |
| tjcocozz | o/ | 18:00 |
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| henrynash | happy new tuesday | 18:00 |
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| gyee | henrynash, nice one :-) | 18:01 |
| raildo | \o/ | 18:01 |
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| henrynash | gyee: gotta be happy new <something> | 18:01 |
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| gyee | ++ | 18:02 |
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| dstanek | \o/ | 18:02 |
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| lbragstad | do we not have a fearless leader today? | 18:03 |
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| marekd | hi | 18:03 |
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| gyee | must be the *new* DST | 18:04 |
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| henrynash | there’s new DST? | 18:04 |
| gyee | daylight saving time | 18:05 |
| henrynash | #startmeeting keystone | 18:05 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 12 18:05:03 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is henrynash. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:05 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:05 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:05 |
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| bknudson_ | hi | 18:05 |
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| shaleh | o/ | 18:05 |
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| lbragstad | courtesy ping | 18:05 |
| lbragstad | ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, ericksonsantos, geoffarnold, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, joesavak, lbragstad, lhcheng, marekd, morganfainberg, nkinder, raildo, rodrigods, roxanaghe, samueldmq, shaleh, stevemar, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong, claudiub, rderose, samleon, xek, MaxPC, tjcocozz | 18:05 |
| htruta | \o | 18:05 |
| MaxPC | \o | 18:06 |
| henrynash | Ok, let’s get started anyway….Steve can take over when he gets here | 18:06 |
| rodrigods | hello | 18:06 |
| henrynash | I’m sure he will have some comments on the midcyle, will let him raise those | 18:06 |
| henrynash | #topic Bug 1490804: PKI Token Bypass | 18:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bug 1490804: PKI Token Bypass (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:07 | |
| openstack | bug 1490804 in OpenStack Security Advisory "PKI Token Revocation Bypass (CVE-2015-7546)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1490804 | 18:07 |
| tjcocozz | Hello with this patch: https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1490804 we were wondering if it was possible to backport the debate came to a draw and we were wondering if bknudson_ could be the tie breaker. | 18:07 |
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| henrynash | tjcocozz: maybejust summarize teh issue? | 18:07 |
| tjcocozz | tbh i don't know the exact issue | 18:08 |
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| dolphm | tjcocozz: there are no -1's on the backports? have a link to the issue? | 18:08 |
| bknudson_ | we usually do allow backports for security fixes. | 18:09 |
| tjcocozz | what is happening is that there is an extra key added to a dict. I can get the log | 18:09 |
| notmorgan | i am worried about the middleware change causing issues with people who have not gotten audit id responses in the rev list | 18:09 |
| bknudson_ | Some deployments might not like that listing revoked tokens is going to be slower (perhaps much slower) | 18:09 |
| notmorgan | aka, an upgrade of middleware w/o the similar upgrade to keystone | 18:09 |
| notmorgan | i didn't want to -1 but wanted to raise that as a real concern since it requires fixes on both sides. | 18:10 |
| dstanek | i think line 247 here is the issue https://review.openstack.org/#/c/266022/2/keystone/token/persistence/backends/sql.py - adding new data to the response | 18:10 |
| bknudson_ | the code was written such that auth_token works with the old and new reponses | 18:10 |
| notmorgan | ok. i was seeing failures. | 18:10 |
| notmorgan | that was why i wanted to raise the concern | 18:10 |
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| bknudson_ | oh, well that's broken then. I didn't see failures in my own testing... maybe I didn't do it right | 18:10 |
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| notmorgan | it might have been something else | 18:10 |
| henrynash | notmoran, bknudson_: ok so the goal was for it to cope with both formats? | 18:11 |
| notmorgan | also i expect folks to complain that we're breaking them because they will be doing something weird with the data in the revocation list | 18:11 |
| bknudson_ | yes, auth_token middleware should work with and without audit_id | 18:11 |
| bknudson_ | let me see if I can find the code. | 18:11 |
| notmorgan | but i can't use that as a reason to block this. | 18:11 |
| notmorgan | nor would it | 18:11 |
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| notmorgan | i just know touching token and revocation list data has historically netted us "OMG YOU BROKE US" because they expect specific datasets even in dicts | 18:12 |
| notmorgan | non-python code consuming | 18:12 |
| notmorgan | with master, i am less worried as it is an upgrade cost, stable push can sneak up on people depending on how they deploy | 18:12 |
| bknudson_ | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/265988/3/keystonemiddleware/auth_token/_revocations.py -- x['audit_id'] for x in revoked_tokens if 'audit_id' in x | 18:12 |
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| notmorgan | so, bknudson_ if you think it's a non-issue i'm fine with it | 18:13 |
| henrynash | i’m kind of surprised for revocation lists that peopel process it that way, but hey, I’m ofetn surprised | 18:13 |
| bknudson_ | so if there's no audit_id in the revocation list entry you just get an empty list and it doesn't validate by audit id | 18:13 |
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| notmorgan | henrynash: people do silly things =/ | 18:13 |
| henrynash | Ok, so sounds to me like we are (tentively) ok to do this….I’ll run it by Steve since may have a view (I know he wante dit discussed here) | 18:14 |
| gyee | adding fields in the token shouldn't cause trouble right? | 18:14 |
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| notmorgan | gyee: shouldn't but has in the past | 18:14 |
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| henrynash | #action Tentative Go for making Bug 1490804: PKI Token Bypass fix, stevemar to confirm | 18:15 |
| openstack | bug 1490804 in OpenStack Security Advisory "PKI Token Revocation Bypass (CVE-2015-7546)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1490804 | 18:15 |
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| henrynash | #topic Bug 1527759: Revert domain ownership check | 18:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bug 1527759: Revert domain ownership check (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:15 | |
| openstack | bug 1527759 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "Default domain no longer lets keystone tenant-list work" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1527759 - Assigned to Morgan Fainberg (mdrnstm) | 18:15 |
| henrynash | this is actually steve’s…anyone want to pick up on it, or I will defer | 18:16 |
| henrynash | (well Steve put his name against it on the agenda) | 18:16 |
| henrynash | notmorgan: comment? | 18:16 |
| notmorgan | henrynash: hmm? | 18:16 |
| henrynash | good comment | 18:16 |
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| notmorgan | the master fix landed | 18:16 |
| notmorgan | the stable/* are pending | 18:17 |
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| notmorgan | from what steve told me the revert of non-default domain user/projects in v2 tokens was the root | 18:17 |
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| stevemar | thanks notmorgan | 18:18 |
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| henrynash | notmorgan, stevemar: so not sure what the question in here…is it whether we should backport? | 18:19 |
| stevemar | henrynash: yep | 18:19 |
| stevemar | henrynash: notmorgan proposed the backport | 18:19 |
| notmorgan | henrynash: we should backport it imo. | 18:19 |
| stevemar | but gyee mentioned some sort of swift concern | 18:20 |
| notmorgan | this broke real deployments. | 18:20 |
| notmorgan | swift worked with the previous behavior | 18:20 |
| stevemar | yeah, it broke at least 2 people | 18:20 |
| henrynash | can’t really think why we would not….gyee? | 18:20 |
| stevemar | i think it goes all the way to kilo | 18:20 |
| gyee | swift ACLs allows names only | 18:20 |
| notmorgan | and the fix for wift was "don't use v2 specific middleware with the ACLs" | 18:20 |
| notmorgan | we can't keep this in tree | 18:20 |
| notmorgan | the non-reverted setup that is | 18:20 |
| notmorgan | because of the real world deployment breakage | 18:21 |
| henrynash | ok, any objections to backport? | 18:21 |
| gyee | no objection, so as long as people understand the implications | 18:21 |
| stevemar | i think we need to reverse it | 18:21 |
| stevemar | gyee: you propose we send an email out to the list? | 18:22 |
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| gyee | stevemar, yes, we should | 18:22 |
| stevemar | gyee: you volunteering? :) | 18:22 |
| gyee | stevemar, sure, OK | 18:22 |
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| stevemar | yay | 18:22 |
| notmorgan | fwiw, this was a behavior swift coped with back before we "fixed" it | 18:22 |
| notmorgan | the changes gyee is pointing to were documented in 2014 | 18:23 |
| notmorgan | just as a data point. | 18:23 |
| gyee | hey, two wrongs make it right :-) | 18:23 |
| henrynash | #action gyee to send email to list with implications of reversal detailed in https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1527759 | 18:23 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1527759 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "Default domain no longer lets keystone tenant-list work" [Undecided,Fix released] - Assigned to Morgan Fainberg (mdrnstm) | 18:23 |
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| henrynash | and we are backporting to L and K ? | 18:24 |
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| notmorgan | yes | 18:24 |
| notmorgan | fixes are proposed | 18:24 |
| stevemar | yeah, it was reported with kilo.2 | 18:24 |
| stevemar | we need someone to propose it to kilo https://review.openstack.org/#/q/I4a303a5fcc8c2dacef5960e9e26ad9402f34a790,n,z | 18:24 |
| notmorgan | the other deployment broke with upgrade to liberty | 18:24 |
| notmorgan | stevemar: there is a kilo fix proposed | 18:24 |
| notmorgan | just gerrit ui is wonky | 18:24 |
| henrynash | #action go ahead with Liberty and Kilo backports of https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1527759 | 18:25 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1527759 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "Default domain no longer lets keystone tenant-list work" [Undecided,Fix released] - Assigned to Morgan Fainberg (mdrnstm) | 18:25 |
| notmorgan | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/265019/ | 18:25 |
| notmorgan | kilo fix ^ | 18:25 |
| notmorgan | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/265019/ | 18:25 |
| henrynash | excellent | 18:25 |
| henrynash | ok moving on | 18:25 |
| henrynash | #topic v2 deprecation/v3 support | 18:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "v2 deprecation/v3 support (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:25 | |
| notmorgan | the search for the changeid doesn't work for some reasons... | 18:25 |
| stevemar | notmorgan: link me? | 18:26 |
| stevemar | oh i found it | 18:26 |
| stevemar | yeah, same change id | 18:26 |
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| stevemar | thats weird | 18:26 |
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| henrynash | htruta, raldo: you’re up | 18:26 |
| stevemar | stable maint folks, review: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/265019/ and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/265023/ :) | 18:26 |
| htruta | so, raildo and I have been investigating what's left to do in Mitaka to maximize the amount of things that we can deprecate of improve v3 support | 18:27 |
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| htruta | and as talked yesterday with notmorgan and jamielennox, looks like the main services in general have good support | 18:27 |
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| samueldmq | yes, core services already support it | 18:28 |
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| bknudson_ | do we have a gate where there's no v2? | 18:28 |
| htruta | I wonder what else we can do at short-term, besides putting the patch stevemar mentioned in the agenda forward | 18:28 |
| samueldmq | bknudson_: yes, in devstack as nonvoting | 18:28 |
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| htruta | samueldmq: ++ | 18:28 |
| stevemar | make it voting :) | 18:28 |
| htruta | In liberty jamielennox said it was too soon to make v3 default in devstack | 18:29 |
| stevemar | deprecate v2 calls, like the patch | 18:29 |
| notmorgan | it should be doable in mitaka | 18:29 |
| samueldmq | bknudson_: the idea is to propose it in tempest as well, and make it voting (cc mtreinish) | 18:29 |
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| notmorgan | default in devstack that is | 18:29 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: yes taht's the idea, I can work on that with qa | 18:29 |
| stevemar | start moving clients and other projects to v3 setups by default | 18:29 |
| stevemar | and clients to keystoneauth | 18:29 |
| htruta | notmorgan: I mean, using v3 in devstack when doing . openrc | 18:29 |
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| htruta | which is not what we currently have | 18:29 |
| notmorgan | and we should have a gate (voting) job that ensures no v2 stuff is enabled/everything still works | 18:30 |
| notmorgan | htruta: right, statement stands :) | 18:30 |
| samueldmq | notmorgan: agreed, isn't v3 default in devstack already ? for roles and other entities, I remember jamie had a couple of patches which merged isn't v3 default in devstack already ? for roles and other entities, I remember jamie had a couple of patches which merged | 18:30 |
| htruta | notmorgan: how so? I still had to export some env variables when created a v3 only devstack | 18:30 |
| samueldmq | sorry for duplicate | 18:30 |
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| notmorgan | htruta: things that need to be fixed. | 18:31 |
| notmorgan | but we should be able to do it | 18:31 |
| notmorgan | most everything should "work". | 18:31 |
| htruta | samueldmq, notmorgan: in that case, what do you mean by v3 by default? | 18:31 |
| stevemar | htruta: samueldmq: you could start re-writing the the v2 keystone methods to call v3 functions | 18:31 |
| henrynash | I really think we have to nail this for Mitaka….we can’t go another cycle with anything other than v3 being the defacto standard | 18:31 |
| htruta | everything work, but in default, they use v2... that's my point | 18:32 |
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| notmorgan | htruta: sorry ensure that .openrc is only v3, that v2 can be disabled with no impact on stacking up/tempest [except v2 specific checks] | 18:32 |
| stevemar | htruta: samueldmq make sure the clients are using keystoneauth | 18:32 |
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| notmorgan | clients using keystoneauth is a work in progress, but using ksc.session should be fine for this | 18:32 |
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| samueldmq | notmorgan: exactly | 18:32 |
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| htruta | stevemar: we're doing that | 18:33 |
| gyee | off topic, where does devstack ppl usually hang out? #openstack-devstack? | 18:33 |
| samueldmq | notmorgan: I think this is how devstack works with v2 completely disabled, usign sessions | 18:33 |
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| samueldmq | gyee: -qa | 18:33 |
| henrynash | ok, so plan of action……1) make v3 teh default - htruta, are you on that one | 18:33 |
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| gyee | samueldmq, thanks | 18:33 |
| htruta | henrynash: sure | 18:33 |
| samueldmq | gyee: devstack, tempest and grenade are under qa | 18:33 |
| henrynash | 2) maek it gating I assume? | 18:34 |
| gyee | looks like cinder is broker when USE_SSL is set to true | 18:34 |
| gyee | I need to chase people down | 18:34 |
| gyee | broken | 18:34 |
| henrynash | do we need to disable v2 in that gating test? | 18:34 |
| dolphm | htruta: get in touch with me before you "rewrite the v2 keystone methods to call v3 functions" - that's not quite how it should be done! | 18:34 |
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| raildo | gyee: I found similar error on trove | 18:35 |
| notmorgan | samueldmq: i need to ask you a question post meeting re paste things | 18:35 |
| htruta | henrynash: I don't think we need to disable v2 | 18:35 |
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| notmorgan | stevemar: ^ uou too | 18:35 |
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| raildo | gyee: https://bugs.launchpad.net/trove/+bug/1293826 | 18:35 |
| samueldmq | notmorgan: sure sir | 18:35 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1293826 in Trove "Trove doesn't work with Keystone that accepts HTTPS connections" [Low,In progress] - Assigned to Amrith (amrith) | 18:35 |
| htruta | maybe making the v3 gate voting is enough for now | 18:35 |
| htruta | dolphm: sure | 18:35 |
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| samueldmq | htruta: yes | 18:36 |
| henrynash | htruta: OK, | 18:36 |
| samueldmq | disabling v2 is the way we found to make sure everything is working with v3 | 18:36 |
| stevemar | and reviewing the patch to deprecate v2 API calls :) | 18:36 |
| htruta | I also think that we can create extra tests in tempest, like using domain scoped tokens and projects in different domain than default tokens | 18:37 |
| samueldmq | and not making mixed calls with v2 and v3 later | 18:37 |
| stevemar | dolphm: thanks for knowing what i meant :) | 18:37 |
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| bknudson_ | we could get a gate that uses ldap! | 18:37 |
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| stevemar | bknudson_: :O | 18:38 |
| htruta | henrynash, samueldmq: I mean... we don't need to disable all v2 tests in devstack... but the v3 only gate totally disables v2, if that's what you mean | 18:38 |
| stevemar | that would be good too! | 18:38 |
| henrynash | bknudson_: oh, boy | 18:38 |
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| samueldmq | dolphm: should we make an adpter for v2->v3 controllers (as we have for versioned drivers) ? | 18:38 |
| htruta | stevemar: btw, are you working on removing the resource ldap backend? :( | 18:38 |
| henrynash | htruta: ok, that’s what i meant… our v3 gating test ensures v2 is off | 18:38 |
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| amrith | hello, did I miss something? | 18:39 |
| samueldmq | :) | 18:39 |
| henrynash | amrith: the answer to that question is always going to be yes | 18:40 |
| stevemar | htruta: i keep getting sidetracked and it's a PITA to remove | 18:40 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: ++ | 18:40 |
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| samueldmq | henrynash: action point for this topic ? | 18:40 |
| stevemar | henrynash: also, ayoung added something to the meeting agenda | 18:40 |
| notmorgan | samueldmq: the v2 auth miht need to be maintained va an adapter | 18:40 |
| amrith | sorry, I just saw irc blink and my name seems to be referenced with some bug. how can I help. | 18:40 |
| henrynash | #action htruta to ensure v3 default is proposed along with gating v3 only tests | 18:41 |
| notmorgan | bknudson_: heh i tried at one point ldap was so poorly supported.... | 18:41 |
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| notmorgan | bknudson_: now thjat we don't have writable or assignment it would prob. be more doable | 18:42 |
| henrynash | stevemar: ah , got ti | 18:42 |
| htruta | an action to review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/251530/ too? | 18:42 |
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| henrynash | #action: cores to review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/251530/ as well, we’ve been working up t this for w ahile :-) | 18:43 |
| henrynash | ok new topic | 18:43 |
| htruta | henrynash: thanks | 18:43 |
| henrynash | #topic Enforce token Bind based on Catalog | 18:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Enforce token Bind based on Catalog (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:43 | |
| henrynash | ayoung, gyee: you’re up | 18:43 |
| gyee | do it! | 18:43 |
| henrynash | gyee: succinct, as ever | 18:44 |
| shaleh | :-) | 18:44 |
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| shaleh | henrynash: only on a terminal. In person he can really go for a while :-) | 18:44 |
| henrynash | is this just a request for reviews…or are there some concerns we need to discuss here | 18:44 |
| gyee | where's Craig Lee and others, they are using it to implement VOs, afaik | 18:45 |
| gyee | and we are using it to control service activation and visibility | 18:45 |
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| bknudson_ | we never implemented checking endpoint in service catalog in auth_token? | 18:45 |
| gyee | so there are production use cases on endpoint filtering already | 18:45 |
| notmorgan | -1 | 18:46 |
| notmorgan | we should never muck with the catalog | 18:46 |
| gyee | bknudson_, there's a patch | 18:46 |
| notmorgan | catalog should be as static as possible | 18:46 |
| notmorgan | don't change the catalog based on user/project/etc | 18:46 |
| gyee | normorgan, we had a session at Mitaka summit about it | 18:46 |
| shaleh | are we really going to have this conversation again | 18:46 |
| notmorgan | and i'm still -1 on it | 18:46 |
| notmorgan | shaleh: yes. | 18:46 |
| gyee | what's the point of advertising endpoints user have no access to? | 18:46 |
| notmorgan | gyee: the catalog is about discovery of services. either use roles or a separate field. | 18:47 |
| gyee | there are UX benefits as well | 18:47 |
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| notmorgan | don't actually change the catalog itself | 18:47 |
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| notmorgan | endpoint filtering should never have landed - i am sorry i let that through in hindsight | 18:47 |
| dstanek | gyee: what's the point of Google indexing a page that you don't have access to? | 18:47 |
| gyee | what are you going to do with endpoints you have no access to? | 18:47 |
| dstanek | gyee: ask for access if you feel you need them | 18:48 |
| shaleh | dstanek: how often do you find a google search result you cannot access? | 18:48 |
| henrynash | notmorgan: I’d say that the catalog still as static as it’s every been, just that you don’t necessarily haev the rights to see it all | 18:48 |
| notmorgan | henrynash: and i disagree with the need to mutate it | 18:48 |
| dstanek | shaleh: all the time. lot's of news sites have pay walls | 18:48 |
| notmorgan | based upon user/etc | 18:48 |
| notmorgan | dstanek: ++ | 18:48 |
| henrynash | (ignore that we always had things like project_id substitutions in it!) | 18:48 |
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| notmorgan | henrynash: those are going away :) so i treat them as if they don't exist | 18:48 |
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| shaleh | I am not going through this again. You guys can argue the same points all over | 18:49 |
| notmorgan | henrynash: [active work to solve that is landing in mitaka] | 18:49 |
| gyee | we are doing the same thing with federation, filter service providers | 18:49 |
| samueldmq | and we're also extending endpoint filter (for me in the wrong place) to serve as sp filtering | 18:49 |
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| notmorgan | samueldmq: i want to deprecate endpoint filtering | 18:50 |
| notmorgan | samueldmq: to be honest | 18:50 |
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| henrynash | appreacite that others will have differning views, but I don;t send there is sufficent weight for blocking this, we are already down this path of a “filterable catalog”…this patch is just hardening an existing filter | 18:50 |
| notmorgan | SP filtering != filtering catalog | 18:50 |
| gyee | we are having double standards here | 18:50 |
| notmorgan | erm endpoints | 18:50 |
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| marekd | notmorgan: ++ | 18:50 |
| gyee | endpoint filter have production use cases | 18:50 |
| notmorgan | henrynash: i didn't -2 the change [yues i feel that strong] because i wanted to talk about it in the meeting | 18:51 |
| henrynash | whcih we are! | 18:51 |
| gyee | SP are identified by endpoints | 18:51 |
| samueldmq | notmorgan: endpoints filtering != filtering catalog ? | 18:51 |
| notmorgan | henrynash: but i still feel strong enough that this is something we should back away from | 18:51 |
| marekd | gyee: what? | 18:51 |
| notmorgan | samueldmq: endpoint/services shouldn't be filtered | 18:51 |
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| gyee | marekd, how do you access an SP? | 18:52 |
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| henrynash | comments from others…. | 18:52 |
| henrynash | ? | 18:52 |
| notmorgan | the fact the SPs are in the catalog was conviencne and probably an incorrect choicce but we have to live with it. | 18:52 |
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| samueldmq | notmorgan: cool and in the case endpoint is too big ? should we make it globally available (catlog, as it won't change ?) | 18:52 |
| notmorgan | samueldmq: "endpoint too big"? | 18:52 |
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| marekd | i have to reauth | 18:52 |
| marekd | gyee: ^^ | 18:52 |
| samueldmq | notmorgan: catalog I meant | 18:52 |
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| gyee | service provider need to be able to control how they advertise their services | 18:52 |
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| gyee | they don't have to discuss all the services globally | 18:53 |
| notmorgan | gyee: then add a different field. | 18:53 |
| gyee | disclose | 18:53 |
| notmorgan | gyee: the discovery part of the catalog should not change. | 18:53 |
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| notmorgan | at all | 18:53 |
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| notmorgan | i am not saying don't have enforcement i'm saying don't "change the catalog itself" the catalog shouldn't change based upon user/project/etc | 18:54 |
| gyee | not sure what you mean by add another field | 18:54 |
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| gyee | how can I control what NOT to discover? | 18:54 |
| bknudson_ | we still have the templated catalog? | 18:54 |
| notmorgan | bknudson_: sadly | 18:54 |
| notmorgan | gyee: you don't get to. | 18:54 |
| notmorgan | gyee: in my view that is a new keystone | 18:54 |
| notmorgan | gyee: why are you "preventing" disclosure of endpoints? | 18:55 |
| gyee | that's the whole point, we need to be able to control the services we are not advertising to the end users | 18:55 |
| notmorgan | gyee: i don't buy it | 18:55 |
| ayoung | so...that is not the same as binding the endpoint. | 18:55 |
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| notmorgan | give me a real usecase | 18:55 |
| gyee | notmorgan, service activation | 18:55 |
| ayoung | binding is saying the token can only be used on that endpoint...that is the part I want to nail down | 18:55 |
| notmorgan | not a "we want x cause we have some thing we think we need" which is what i've gotten from this. | 18:55 |
| gyee | region access | 18:55 |
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| notmorgan | gyee: don't see that as a real use | 18:56 |
| gyee | don't tell me I have to create a role for each endpoints | 18:56 |
| notmorgan | sorry | 18:56 |
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| notmorgan | endpoint bindging would be a good solution | 18:56 |
| gyee | what is endpoint binding? | 18:56 |
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| henrynash | ok, coming up on teh end of our slot here | 18:57 |
| ayoung | gyee, token must have endpoint in its catalog to be used on endpoint | 18:57 |
| notmorgan | it's hooking into the work ayoung did to say you need KRB5 or such to work with an endpoint | 18:57 |
| notmorgan | but i don't want us to do filtering on the catalog | 18:57 |
| gyee | ayoung, that's endpoint filter | 18:57 |
| ayoung | notmorgan, ah, binding to auth... | 18:57 |
| notmorgan | make it explicit list not filtering | 18:57 |
| ayoung | notmorgan, nah, that is dead | 18:57 |
| ayoung | that was a PKI thing. | 18:57 |
| gyee | that patch was the enforcement part of it | 18:57 |
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| notmorgan | well i stand by my -1. i am >< close to a -2 but obviously i'm in the minority here | 18:57 |
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| henrynash | notmorgan: does this proposed change make teh catalog any less static…are we not just enforcing something we already do? | 18:58 |
| notmorgan | i very much think we're doing this wrong. | 18:58 |
| notmorgan | henrynash: it is driving us down the "use endpoint filtering" path | 18:58 |
| notmorgan | and we should remove that functionality | 18:58 |
| ayoung | notmorgan, I think it is very right to say "I want a token with roles 1,2,3 for endpoint e1 | 18:58 |
| notmorgan | it is terrible. | 18:58 |
| ayoung | filtering is related, but this is doable even without filtering | 18:58 |
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| ayoung | this is more "this token should only be used for Neutron" | 18:59 |
| henrynash | I’m not disputing taht you have concerns over whether we should be doing filtering at all, just seems taht this change is completing work we arleady approved, releasd….which we can schose to retire in teh fiture if we havea better aternaitive | 18:59 |
| gyee | ayoung, you ended up with a much compact catalog either way | 18:59 |
| notmorgan | ayoung: if we are going down that path we should just make it a specific field added saying it | 18:59 |
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| ayoung | gyee, true, but side effect | 18:59 |
| notmorgan | not change the catalog that is my complaint. | 18:59 |
| gyee | we are not changing the format of it | 18:59 |
| notmorgan | i don't want to see the catalog change between auths | 18:59 |
| notmorgan | it's not the format it's the contant that shouldn't change | 18:59 |
| gyee | we are controlling what to advertise | 18:59 |
| ayoung | notmorgan, no change to the format. It is only a change to the request | 18:59 |
| henrynash | ok, sounds like we need to contoinue this discussion….probably set some tiem ot teh midcylce, stevmar? | 19:00 |
| ayoung | what I request a token, I say "and only endpoint E" | 19:00 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: time's over, infra time ? | 19:00 |
| notmorgan | the catalog should not be different depending on scope | 19:00 |
| henrynash | #endmeeting | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 12 19:00:09 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:00 |
| notmorgan | or user or auth. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-01-12-18.05.html | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-01-12-18.05.txt | 19:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-01-12-18.05.log.html | 19:00 |
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| clarkb | hello | 19:00 |
| mordred | look it's a clarkb | 19:00 |
| * Clint looks. | 19:00 | |
| crinkle | o/ | 19:00 |
| fungi | activate interlock! dynotherms connected! infracells up! mega thrusters are go! | 19:00 |
| Zara | \o/ | 19:00 |
| taron | warp drive active | 19:00 |
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| dhellmann | o/ | 19:00 |
| pabelanger | o/ | 19:01 |
| pleia2 | o/ | 19:01 |
| AJaeger | o/ | 19:01 |
| * craige opens his bleary eyes. | 19:01 | |
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| jhesketh | o/ | 19:01 |
| ianw | o/ | 19:01 |
| fungi | jeblair: SergeyLukjanov: yolanda: around for a weekly meeting? | 19:02 |
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| fungi | nibalizer: ^ | 19:02 |
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| jeblair | a/ | 19:02 |
| anteaya | that's the hat | 19:03 |
| yolanda | hi | 19:03 |
| fungi | that makes at least 7 of 9 | 19:03 |
| asselin_ | o/ | 19:03 |
| fungi | 8. let's go! | 19:03 |
| fungi | #startmeeting infra | 19:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 12 19:03:22 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:03 |
| nibalizer | o/ | 19:03 |
| craige | o/ | 19:03 |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:03 |
| yolanda | o/ | 19:03 |
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| fungi | #topic Announcements | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:04 | |
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| zaro | o/ | 19:04 |
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| fungi | i didn't have any specific announcements at this point, anything i need to mention for posterity which we won't cover as part of the agenda? | 19:04 |
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| SotK | o/ | 19:04 |
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| fungi | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:05 | |
| fungi | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-01-05-19.05.html | 19:05 |
| fungi | there were none, completed successfully | 19:05 |
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| fungi | #topic Specs approval | 19:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:05 | |
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| krotscheck | o/ | 19:05 |
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| fungi | #info "Consolidation of docs jobs" specification voting is deferred and placed back into an in-progress state due to requested revisions | 19:06 |
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| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/246550 | 19:06 |
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| AJaeger | fungi, yep. I want to enhance a bit more but currently concentrate on the translation work since that's more urgent. | 19:06 |
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| fungi | there were no approvals or new proposed specs for voting this week | 19:06 |
| fungi | #topic Priority Efforts: Zuul v3 | 19:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts: Zuul v3 (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:06 | |
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| jeblair | jhesketh timrc pabelanger anteaya Clint mordred GheRivero zaro yolanda rcarrillocruz SpamapS fungi fbo cschwede greghaynes nibalizer fdegir: ping! | 19:07 |
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| * Clint twitches. | 19:07 | |
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| jeblair | you all put your name on an etherpad in vancouver to help with zuulv3 | 19:07 |
| jhesketh | pong! | 19:07 |
| anteaya | I did | 19:07 |
| yolanda | yes | 19:07 |
| Clint | yup | 19:07 |
| fungi | yep | 19:07 |
| nibalizer | yep | 19:07 |
| anteaya | I have reviewed some patches | 19:07 |
| jeblair | and, as we all know, you can't edit an etherpad after the fact. | 19:07 |
| Clint | true | 19:07 |
| fungi | totally impossible | 19:07 |
| anteaya | that is the law | 19:07 |
| jeblair | so you're stuck with it. | 19:07 |
| fungi | is there a list of next steps we can get more specific about volunteering to tackle now? | 19:08 |
| jeblair | anyway... i have some really bad code that very roughly sketches out the bulk of the major changes in zuulv3 | 19:08 |
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| jeblair | and in the spec, there are a few major work items that i think can proceed in parallel: http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/zuulv3.html#work-items | 19:08 |
| fbo | pong - yes | 19:08 |
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| jeblair | i think we can take my very bad code and land it on the v3 branch | 19:09 |
| jeblair | and then start to make it better with some parallel efforts | 19:09 |
| jeblair | probably not too many yet | 19:09 |
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| anteaya | jeblair: the gerrit topic you are using is feature/zuulv3 (v3) yes? | 19:09 |
| fungi | it's actually a branch | 19:10 |
| jeblair | but i think that a) nodepool, b) job definition and playbook loading/organization, c) ansible launching are all major areas that can happen without too much toe stepping | 19:10 |
| pabelanger | jeblair: indeed! | 19:10 |
| anteaya | sorry that is the branch yes: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+branch:feature/zuulv3+topic:v3 | 19:10 |
| jhesketh | yes, I've been landing some of jeblair's code.. There are some very large patchsets so I haven't finished reviewing them all, but the strategy was to land them and then create followups where necessary | 19:10 |
| clarkb | re nodepool, current plan is to get image builder changes in tomorrow and have it running for thursday image builds | 19:10 |
| greghaynes | ohai | 19:10 |
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| clarkb | which is sort of an ancillary to zuulv3 related work | 19:11 |
| pabelanger | clarkb: nice, already to start using them | 19:11 |
| jeblair | cool, so we can probably branch nodepool next week for work on (a) | 19:11 |
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| greghaynes | Ya, hopefully | 19:11 |
| fungi | the udea was to branch nodepool after the image worker stuff is in then? | 19:11 |
| greghaynes | third time is the charm | 19:11 |
| fungi | er, idea | 19:11 |
| clarkb | fungi: yes | 19:11 |
| fungi | righteous | 19:11 |
| jeblair | does anyone want to start hacking on any of those things? i'm thinking i'd like to take (b).. anyone want (a) or (c) ? | 19:11 |
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| jhesketh | I'm happy to take a look at c) | 19:12 |
| jeblair | or did someone have their heart set on (b)? :) | 19:12 |
| jhesketh | (also happy for (b) if there are no other takers) | 19:12 |
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| anteaya | I will continue to open patches and stare at them saying i did so and asking questions if I can | 19:13 |
| mordred | we want to branch nodepool before we land the shade patches? | 19:13 |
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| jeblair | maybe we should land shade? | 19:13 |
| jhesketh | (err, (a) I meant) | 19:13 |
| jeblair | mordred: how ready is shade? | 19:14 |
| fungi | so we're mostly in need of a volunteer for a so that jhesketh doesn't need to work on both a and c | 19:14 |
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| mordred | jeblair: shade patch I've been ignoring until the image worker patches land | 19:14 |
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| jeblair | yeah, the nodepool work is fairly self-contained | 19:14 |
| fungi | specifically "Modify nodepool to support new allocation and distribution" | 19:14 |
| mordred | jeblair: largely just needs to be rebased once the codebase is not churn | 19:14 |
| yolanda | sorry, i cannot compromise for that in the next weeks, but i'll be happy to review, and help on the future | 19:15 |
| clarkb | mordred: don't we also need to get to the bottom of the larger api call counts? | 19:15 |
| clarkb | mordred: or was that figured out? | 19:15 |
| mordred | jeblair: how about I take a quick stab at the rebase after the image builders land, and if it's big, we can shelve it until v3 timeframe | 19:15 |
| mordred | clarkb: figured out | 19:15 |
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| clarkb | yay | 19:15 |
| jeblair | mordred: sounds like a plan. | 19:15 |
| mordred | \o/ | 19:15 |
| jeblair | so, no volunteers yet to actually do the nodepool v3 work? | 19:16 |
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| mordred | on, I'll definitely work on it | 19:16 |
| fungi | my pipeline has backed up a lot since the summit, so while i'm willing to take a stab at item (a) i'm hoping someone else steps up | 19:16 |
| * mordred actively wants to work on it | 19:16 | |
| fungi | all yours, mordred! | 19:16 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: i want to work on a) but I'm worried about overcommiting | 19:16 |
| jeblair | cool, i'll propose a change to the spec to add these | 19:17 |
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| fungi | nibalizer: overcommitting is a time-honored infra tradition | 19:17 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: i'm hoping that as these larger things take shape we can start having more people chip in on less all-encompasing tasks | 19:17 |
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| fungi | i expect some somewhat tightly scoped subtasks to fall out of these larger tasks as well | 19:18 |
| jeblair | jhesketh: i've learned some things this very day about ansible, so we'll chat later | 19:18 |
| jhesketh | jeblair: sounds good | 19:19 |
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| jeblair | fungi: i think that's good for now | 19:19 |
| jhesketh | (I'd also like to chat a few zuul things after this) | 19:19 |
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| fungi | thanks jeblair, mordred, jhesketh! | 19:19 |
| fungi | #topic Turning off HPCloud node provider(s) gracefully (clarkb) | 19:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Turning off HPCloud node provider(s) gracefully (clarkb) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:19 | |
| fungi | this was held over from last week's agenda | 19:20 |
| fungi | we chatted a little after the meeting about plans, but would help to echo the nuggets of that in the meeting | 19:20 |
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| clarkb | sure, basic plan was to not ease off of it and instead just turn it off off at some point before the 31st | 19:20 |
| fungi | i believe we decided some time shortly before the 31st we should gracefully shift from current quotas to 0 in nodepool | 19:20 |
| clarkb | that way we can control when it happens and don't run into funnyness with nodepool operations (say 500 tests all turning off at the same time like aderaan | 19:21 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: a great disturbance indeed | 19:21 |
| pleia2 | (alderaan) | 19:21 |
| fungi | jeblair beat me to the quote | 19:21 |
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| clarkb | the changes to do this have been written, there are two portions, first is to set our max-servers to -1 so that we stop running jobs, then the second removes the configuration from nodepool.yaml | 19:21 |
| mordred | pleia2: did your IRC client just show you a picture of alderaan? | 19:21 |
| pleia2 | makes sense, and I spoke with some HPE folks last week and they were asking about our plans | 19:21 |
| craige | +1 pleia2 | 19:21 |
| clarkb | let me get change links | 19:22 |
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| clarkb | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/264371/ | 19:22 |
| clarkb | that one and its child | 19:22 |
| jeblair | it might be good to push this back as far as we feel comfortable though... | 19:22 |
| fungi | it would help to get confirmation from hpe that they don't intend to pull that rug out from under us before the 31st | 19:22 |
| pleia2 | fungi: no, the 31st it is | 19:22 |
| yolanda | we will be fine until 31 | 19:22 |
| fungi | okay, awesome | 19:22 |
| jeblair | so that a) we have more opportunity for other quota to magically show up, and b) do we have some image types that are hpcloud only? | 19:23 |
| anteaya | the 31st is a Sunday | 19:23 |
| fungi | so given that's a sunday we likely want to do it on a day people are more likely around to pull the trigger | 19:23 |
| pleia2 | jeblair: ++ | 19:23 |
| clarkb | jeblair: there is one that is only in hpcloud | 19:23 |
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| clarkb | and I actually need to finish detangling that (or someone does) | 19:23 |
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| clarkb | it is devstack-centos7 iirc | 19:23 |
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| clarkb | yup | 19:23 |
| fungi | ianw: were there issues getting that booting in other providers? | 19:23 |
| anteaya | I'm at nova mid-cycle the last week of Jan, so won't be around to answer the phone | 19:24 |
| clarkb | so I may need to split the 3 changes into 2 changes with devstack-centos7 handled first, then max-servers = -1, then remove hpcloud from config | 19:24 |
| clarkb | er 2 into 3 | 19:24 |
| jeblair | clarkb: ++ | 19:24 |
| clarkb | I can maths | 19:24 |
| ianw | fungi: i haven't tried it on the other providers yet. it's on my new-year todo list | 19:24 |
| fungi | clarkb and i aren't really around that week leading up to the 31st either | 19:24 |
| clarkb | right, traveling sunday through thurs | 19:24 |
| anteaya | fewer phone answers | 19:24 |
| fungi | ianw: are there any voting jobs depending on it? i assume no? | 19:25 |
| ianw | given past experience, my inclination is that it will not work | 19:25 |
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| ianw | should not be voting jobs | 19:25 |
| pleia2 | yeah, I'm leaving for LCA on the 27th | 19:25 |
| clarkb | ianw: rax is the only provider with funny lack of dhcp, we may be able to get it workin on the other providers with dib | 19:25 |
| ianw | clarkb: yep, that's the plan | 19:25 |
| fungi | i won't be home until mid-day on friday the 29th but could approve changes that afternoon | 19:25 |
| clarkb | ianw: kk | 19:25 |
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| clarkb | there is also a non zero possibility that I may be buying a house which makes everyting extra crazy | 19:26 |
| anteaya | so who _is_ avalilable the 28th/29th to answer the channel and calm and disgruntled masses? | 19:26 |
| anteaya | s/and/any | 19:26 |
| jhesketh | I should be around until the 31st then off to LCA (but still available) | 19:26 |
| anteaya | thanks | 19:26 |
| fungi | i mean, i _could_ do it from the plane or a hotel before the afternoon of the 29th but would rather not commit to that | 19:26 |
| anteaya | one | 19:26 |
| anteaya | fungi: yup | 19:26 |
| * krotscheck is probably not available | 19:26 | |
| jhesketh | clearly a different timezone to the masses though | 19:26 |
| AJaeger | I might be around but can't commit yet either ;( | 19:26 |
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| anteaya | jhesketh: we'll take what we can get | 19:27 |
| jhesketh | or alternatively we move it to a few days earlier | 19:27 |
| anteaya | jhesketh: ++ | 19:27 |
| * yolanda will not be available, on travel | 19:27 | |
| jeblair | i expect to be around then | 19:27 |
| * craige will be already at LCA but you can ping me to help, jhesketh | 19:27 | |
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| anteaya | craige: you'd need to be here to help | 19:27 |
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| anteaya | jeblair: yay two | 19:27 |
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| fungi | so as for what to expect, we're going to roughly halve our current capacity. if that coincides with some major problems in another provider (particularly rackspace) then that could be pretty terrible. otherwise it's likely we'll just be backed up a bit more than usual at peak times | 19:28 |
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| clarkb | right we also need to work on getting unittests on the new providers | 19:29 |
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| clarkb | which is the bindep and pre test setup related work | 19:30 |
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| fungi | yeah, those macros should in theory be ready to get added to jobs/job-templates now, but more testing would help | 19:31 |
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| fungi | the trick is that we need to reorder builders a little bit because bindep's ability to read a project-supplied list of package names means that repo cloning needs to happen prior to revoking sudo | 19:31 |
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| clarkb | though we could flip to bindep with the global list to start | 19:32 |
| fungi | right now our jobs which revoke sudo do so before cloning the repo | 19:32 |
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| clarkb | then reorder, either way we have options and much of the work is done we just need to get it in place | 19:32 |
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| fungi | yeah, it should just work and ignore repo-supplied package lists in that case | 19:32 |
| fungi | rather, ignore the fact that it can't find any | 19:33 |
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| clarkb | I am not sure I have time to take that on this week, but can attempt next week | 19:33 |
| jeblair | i don't think the reorder should be problematic | 19:33 |
| fungi | the database setup and bindep macros should just be a no-op on bare-.* workers so could be added now | 19:33 |
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| fungi | does anybody have time to hack on that a little between now and the end of the month? | 19:34 |
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| fungi | i can help but am wary of promising to have available time to do it all before then | 19:34 |
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| ianw | i think i can get involved with that | 19:35 |
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| fungi | ianw: awesome--it would actually help to have more rh-oriented insight on it too | 19:36 |
| ianw | as mentioned, i'll be keeping on the general rpm distro side of things throughout | 19:36 |
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| fungi | i'll get up with you after the meeting on that | 19:37 |
| fungi | so did we decide to merge the hpcloud turn-down changes on friday the 29th? | 19:37 |
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| * craige thought we did. | 19:38 | |
| fungi | that's the soonest i could do it that week, but i didn't see anybody else volunteer | 19:38 |
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| anteaya | I won't be here to respond to questions so I don't have an opinion | 19:39 |
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| clarkb | 29th sounds good | 19:39 |
| fungi | #agreed HPCloud nodepool quotas will be set to 0 on some time on Friday, January 29th in preparation for their public cloud sunset on the 31st | 19:39 |
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| clarkb | gives us a couple of additional days to work through anything funny that may come up | 19:39 |
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| fungi | meh, my grammar was terrible on that but not so terrible that i'm going to fix it | 19:40 |
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| fungi | okay, so 3 more topics in the next 20 minutes | 19:40 |
| fungi | er, 4 | 19:40 |
| fungi | #topic puppetlabs-apache migration (pabelanger) | 19:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "puppetlabs-apache migration (pabelanger) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:40 | |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/205596 | 19:41 |
| fungi | pabelanger: how's this going? | 19:41 |
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| fungi | or anybody else know why he wanted to discuss it in the meeting? | 19:42 |
| Clint | *crickets* | 19:43 |
| fungi | i guess we can come back to it after the other topics if he returns and there's still time | 19:43 |
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| anteaya | I do not know | 19:43 |
| fungi | #topic clarifying requirements for moving release tools into project-config repository (dhellmann) | 19:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "clarifying requirements for moving release tools into project-config repository (dhellmann) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:43 | |
| dhellmann | hi! | 19:43 |
| anteaya | dhellmann: hi | 19:43 |
| fungi | howdy | 19:43 |
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| dhellmann | so last week during the discussion of release automation it was mentioned that the scripts would need to move as part of that work | 19:44 |
| dhellmann | I interpreted that as them needing to move into project-config, though that may not be a valid interpretation | 19:44 |
| dhellmann | so I'm looking for clarification on why and where, to make sure I can line up that work | 19:44 |
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| dhellmann | in fact, now that I think harder, I think fungi said the jenkins slave scripts directory? | 19:44 |
| anteaya | dhellmann: sorry if this is obvious, which release tools? | 19:44 |
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| fungi | dhellmann: basically any scripts that run on the release.slave or signing.slave hosts will need to be in project-config's jenkins/scripts directory | 19:45 |
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| anteaya | fungi: ah thanks now I understand | 19:45 |
| dhellmann | anteaya : good question. There are a bunch of tools in openstack-infra/release-tools. Some shell, some python. They are all needed as part of the release tagging and publishing process. | 19:45 |
| pabelanger | sorry | 19:45 |
| jeblair | 19:50:16 <fungi> dhellmann: i think we discussed a while back that it might need to move to project-config jenkins/scripts directory instead | 19:45 |
| jeblair | http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-01-05-19.05.log.html | 19:45 |
| dhellmann | fungi : ok, so that's where. I want to understand why, because that's going to make maintaining them much more inconvenient for us. | 19:45 |
| anteaya | dhellmann: sounds like scripts that run on release or signing slaves are the ones that need to be moved, yes? | 19:45 |
| pabelanger | fungi: go distracted, will loop back in open topic | 19:45 |
| dhellmann | not that I'm objecting, just making sure I fully understand | 19:46 |
| dhellmann | anteaya : that will be enough of them that we might as well move them all. | 19:46 |
| anteaya | oh okay | 19:46 |
| fungi | dhellmann: mostly so that the infra-core and project-config-core reviewers have a chance to audit them to make sure they hopefully don't expose the private key material or other credentials we have secured on those hosts | 19:46 |
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| anteaya | so scripts that don't run on release and signing slaves, in jenkins/scripts as well (this is for the rest of infra)? | 19:47 |
| dhellmann | fungi : ok. Since they are a mix of python and bash, how do we manage the installation on the nodes? is it ok for them to pip install things, for example? | 19:47 |
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| AJaeger | dhellmann: in a virtual environment that they setup | 19:47 |
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| fungi | dhellmann: we do pip install some things from pypi if that's what you're asking | 19:47 |
| dhellmann | AJaeger : sure, they use a virtualenv now | 19:47 |
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| fungi | though actually now that i think about it, no we don't any longer (twine was an exception) | 19:48 |
| fungi | we now install distro packages of twine on release.slave | 19:48 |
| dhellmann | fungi : yeah, the scripts look for a virtualenv and create it if they need to, but it's not clear if that goes against security policies to do that at runtime vs. image build time or something | 19:48 |
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| pabelanger | fungi: will have to get back to it next week, need to step away from computer | 19:48 |
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| dhellmann | in particular, the script that figures out which releases were requested is python and need pyyaml and the script that updates launchpad with comments after a release needs some launchpad libraries | 19:48 |
| fungi | dhellmann: we try to make sure any dependencies are installed on the machine in its system context rather than using a virtualenv | 19:49 |
| dhellmann | there are likely to be others, those are the big ones I can think of off the top of my head | 19:49 |
| fungi | ideally from distro packages of those python libraries | 19:49 |
| jeblair | both of those are in ubuntu | 19:49 |
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| dhellmann | ok, so I'll get the rest of the list of requirements | 19:49 |
| dhellmann | and I guess we can change the script to not use a virtualenv and require that those things be installed | 19:49 |
| dhellmann | however, some of the scripts themselves are installed as console scripts, too | 19:49 |
| dhellmann | I guess that will need to change | 19:50 |
| jeblair | the desire for packages is more about a desire for stability of jobs that run in the post or release pipelines than security, per se | 19:50 |
| dhellmann | ok, that makes sense, too | 19:50 |
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| fungi | yeah, avoids shifting dependencies | 19:50 |
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| dhellmann | and how do I express the dependencies on system packages for those scripts? | 19:50 |
| fungi | dhellmann: puppet | 19:51 |
| fungi | #link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/system-config/tree/modules/openstack_project/manifests/release_slave.pp | 19:51 |
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| dhellmann | ok | 19:51 |
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| fungi | you can see there where it's installing the "twine" package | 19:51 |
| fungi | for example | 19:51 |
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| fungi | also python-wheel | 19:52 |
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| fungi | other questions about this? | 19:52 |
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| dhellmann | fungi : yes, can ttx and I get +2 approval on that part of the project-config tree? | 19:52 |
| AJaeger | dhellmann: I promise to give your changes priority in reviewing... | 19:53 |
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| fungi | dhellmann: not really without agreeing to review project-config changes in general. are the scripts that complex? | 19:53 |
| fungi | and going to experience frequent changes? | 19:53 |
| ttx | they tend to change often | 19:54 |
| dhellmann | fungi : it's hard to say. if I have to move the code, I would like to move the review team with it, though. | 19:54 |
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| ttx | but maybe that's just a transition phase | 19:54 |
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| AJaeger | I suggest to let's see how this turns out and then discuss again if needed | 19:54 |
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| dhellmann | fungi : some of the python is a little twisty, but the tagging stuff is pretty simple | 19:54 |
| anteaya | dhellmann ttx if one of you proposes something as long as the other +1's AJaeger and I will give it priority | 19:55 |
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| jeblair | the jenkins slave scripts directory isn't a great place for things that need to be updated frequently -- since they are installed on images, they can take weeks to actually be updated. | 19:55 |
| dhellmann | yeah, that's not optimal in this case | 19:55 |
| fungi | it seems like it's probably similar to some of the other scripts we have for, e.g., proposing requirements changes or translations updates from a complexity perspective | 19:55 |
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| ttx | jeblair: I fear "urgent" release tools updates as we discover problems in a release and need to fix something in the next one coming in 10 min | 19:56 |
| dhellmann | fungi : there's a lot of launchpad and release notes stuff in here, too | 19:56 |
| fungi | true, not the case at the moment for the release and signing slaves, but in zuul/nodepool v3 those become dynamically-generated workers | 19:56 |
| dhellmann | in fact, reno is needed and that's probably not available in a system package yet | 19:56 |
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| fungi | i'm worried that this topic is going to overrun the remainder of the meeting (and is probably not something we're going to be able to decide in the next 3 minutes) | 19:57 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I agree | 19:57 |
| ttx | yeah we should move that off meeting | 19:57 |
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| fungi | yolanda: zaro: are your topics urgent that they get covered in the next minute? | 19:58 |
| dhellmann | fungi: have the tc meeting next, so I'll come back to -infra tomorrow and ping you to continue? | 19:58 |
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| yolanda | fungi, not from my side, i'm progressing on several areas on infra cloud | 19:58 |
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| fungi | dhellmann: yeah, it's likely a large-ish change both to the complexity of what we expect to run in release jobs and to the teams expected to review the tooling, so tomorrow would be good to continue | 19:58 |
| zaro | fungi: no | 19:58 |
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| fungi | dhellmann: and we should try to get input from more project-config-core and infra-root people | 19:59 |
| dhellmann | fungi : sounds good | 19:59 |
| fungi | okay, i'm going to defer pabelanger, yolanda and zaro's topics to next week and skip open discussion | 19:59 |
| fungi | thanks everyone! | 19:59 |
| fungi | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 12 19:59:59 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-01-12-19.03.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-01-12-19.03.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-01-12-19.03.log.html | 20:00 |
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| ttx | o/ | 20:00 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:00 |
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| annegentle | holla | 20:01 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 20:01 |
| mestery | o/ | 20:01 |
| thingee | o/ | 20:01 |
| jaypipes | ..............o/ ... o+-< | 20:01 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:01 |
| mordred | o/ | 20:01 |
| * jaypipes ran in, slipped and fell. | 20:01 | |
| lifeless | o/ | 20:01 |
| annegentle | ice jaypipes! | 20:01 |
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| ttx | russellb, flaper87, dtroyer, markmcclain, jeblair: around ? | 20:02 |
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| russellb | o/ | 20:02 |
| ttx | mark is here alright | 20:02 |
| markmcclain | ttx: still here :) | 20:02 |
| jeblair | ayep | 20:02 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 12 20:02:24 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| ttx | Hi everyone! | 20:02 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:02 |
| russellb | i was talking to mestery, i blame him | 20:02 |
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| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 20:02 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:02 |
| * edleafe lurks suspiciously in the corner... | 20:02 | |
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| thingee | would like to potentially add some more rubber stamp business | 20:02 |
| thingee | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/243348/ | 20:03 |
| ttx | thingee: which ones ? | 20:03 |
| * mestery watches edleafe from the corner of his eyes | 20:03 | |
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| thingee | and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/236712/ | 20:03 |
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| ttx | thingee: fine by me.. objections ? | 20:03 |
| lifeless | well | 20:03 |
| lifeless | isn't there a one week thing for all items? | 20:03 |
| thingee | things have had a lifespan more than a week | 20:04 |
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| ttx | cross project ruberstamps are not really TC resolutions | 20:04 |
| * rockyg peeks out from under a stone | 20:04 | |
| lifeless | ttx: I am obviously confused :) | 20:04 |
| ttx | it's more finally rubberstamping consensus | 20:04 |
| jeblair | well, i thought they were | 20:04 |
| ttx | lifeless: we don't really vote on them -- we acknowledge existing consensus | 20:04 |
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| thingee | Everyone, these items have existed more than a week. | 20:05 |
| dhellmann | thingee : the second one appears to be in conflict with the first :-) | 20:05 |
| ttx | hence the name, rubberstamps | 20:05 |
| ttx | thingee: not as a TC meeting agenda item though, so I see what they mean | 20:05 |
| thingee | ah true | 20:05 |
| lifeless | thingee: the TC meeting protocol specifies a date when things have to be on the agenda | 20:05 |
| ttx | I'm fine delaying them until properly added to agenda. | 20:05 |
| lifeless | thingee: to let participants have time to read them | 20:05 |
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| annegentle | lifeless: oh I see | 20:05 |
| * thingee thinks it would be good if people in the tc are watching the repo regardless of agenda item | 20:06 | |
| ttx | (or rather, I'm only fine adding them to agenda now if nobody objects, and I would count this as objection) | 20:06 |
| mestery | thingee: Good idea | 20:06 |
| annegentle | lifeless: ok, that's a fair point | 20:06 |
| ttx | yeah it's a bit late to look into those | 20:06 |
| annegentle | ttx: I'd say add to the agenda | 20:06 |
| lifeless | separately, I want to drill into this 'not a resolution' thing | 20:06 |
| lifeless | because at least jeblair and I thought differently | 20:07 |
| lifeless | but we can do that late | 20:07 |
| lifeless | later | 20:07 |
| ttx | cross project specs are things that PTLs need to agree to | 20:07 |
| lifeless | ttx: lets defer to open discussion ? | 20:07 |
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| ttx | since it's difficult to have voting rules on that, we use the TC to check that consensus is there | 20:07 |
| ttx | but we just ack consensus, otherwise our vote is just like someone else's vote. At least that's how we have done it until now | 20:08 |
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| ttx | ok | 20:08 |
| thingee | fine with me. There's an agenda item in the cross-project meeting to talk about getting team consensus. | 20:08 |
| dhellmann | I don't see a lot of votes on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/236712/ either, fwiw | 20:08 |
| ttx | #topic Rubberstamp cross-project spec: Adds spec for Service Catalog standardization | 20:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Rubberstamp cross-project spec: Adds spec for Service Catalog standardization (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:08 | |
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| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/181393/ | 20:08 |
| ttx | we have 7 | 20:08 |
| ttx | so I'll consider it ready for merging unless someone objects | 20:09 |
| thingee | dhellmann: I don't see objections currently since it existed oct 18 ;) | 20:09 |
| lifeless | I had one concern | 20:09 |
| sdague | we've been grinding at this for a long time, hopefully what's there is good for folks | 20:09 |
| lifeless | which for some reason was stuck in draft | 20:09 |
| lifeless | there's a paragraph that claims to contain a list | 20:09 |
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| lifeless | but there is no list | 20:09 |
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| sdague | lifeless: which bit? | 20:10 |
| lifeless | so its a little confusing at best | 20:10 |
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| annegentle | for the service catalog, we've whittled for a while, and I think merging now is the right thing to do, with edits as we go | 20:10 |
| lifeless | sdague: line 117 | 20:10 |
| annegentle | since I dislike sentence frags as much as anyone :) | 20:10 |
| lifeless | sdague: the para above which also says 'list of' has an actual list with it | 20:10 |
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| lifeless | sdague: I don't want to hold it up | 20:11 |
| lifeless | sdague: but I'm only +1 while confused, for what thats worth | 20:11 |
| sdague | lifeless: so the list in the paragraph above is not the list of things after it | 20:11 |
| sdague | It's saying "we'd like to get to having a list of things we need to change" and "here are some guiding principles" | 20:11 |
| ttx | ok, lets approve, but maybe queue a clarification | 20:12 |
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| lifeless | sdague: ok, so yeah - that didn't come through clearly. perhaps a post merge tweak? | 20:12 |
| annegentle | lifeless: right, it's saying we'll make a list as a task. but I can see the confusion point, sure | 20:12 |
| sdague | because at this point, this document is mostly a statement of priciples and direction. The details have to come out as they come out | 20:12 |
| ttx | ok approved | 20:12 |
| sdague | lifeless: yeh, I'm so english blind on this spec at this point, if you have better words, please propose | 20:12 |
| ttx | post merge tweaks welcome | 20:12 |
| sdague | ttx: thanks! | 20:13 |
| annegentle | heh me too on english-blind | 20:13 |
| lifeless | sdague: I can do that | 20:13 |
| ttx | #topic Refactor 4 opens as in Project team guide | 20:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Refactor 4 opens as in Project team guide (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:13 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/264127 | 20:13 |
| ttx | This change is about bringing the version of the 4 opens in the governance up to date with the one in the project team guide | 20:13 |
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| ttx | we have 7 now, will approve unless someone objects | 20:13 |
| ttx | (tl;dr being it is mostly placing "principles" bits in the "open" they actually belong in) | 20:14 |
| jeblair | do we have our stance on open core written anywhere else? | 20:14 |
| ttx | I don't think so | 20:14 |
| annegentle | not that I can think of | 20:14 |
| ttx | I mean, we need to retire the wiki version obviously | 20:15 |
| ttx | and there is the subsequent change to remove it from PTG | 20:15 |
| lifeless | So I'm fine with this tweak | 20:15 |
| lifeless | I still want to do something about the open core discussion | 20:15 |
| mordred | uhm | 20:15 |
| mordred | so - yeah | 20:15 |
| ttx | jeblair: but otherwise not that I know of | 20:15 |
| mordred | sorry, just read this | 20:15 |
| jeblair | i'm worried about approving this now because that effectively means we have repealed our open core stance | 20:15 |
| mordred | and the open core thing is vexxing | 20:15 |
| mordred | yea | 20:15 |
| mordred | that's the main reason I wanted to add this to the governance repo in the first place | 20:15 |
| ttx | jeblair: why ? | 20:16 |
| lifeless | jeblair: wait, what ? | 20:16 |
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| ttx | read the first line | 20:16 |
| ttx | the end lines that I removed are a duplicate stance | 20:16 |
| mordred | OH | 20:16 |
| ttx | which do not bring additional info | 20:16 |
| lifeless | Am I reading the right diff ? | 20:16 |
| sdague | yeh, expand the code | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | expand the view so you can see the whole file | 20:16 |
| ttx | lifeless: no *they* are reading it wrong. | 20:16 |
| sdague | lifeless: it's outside the diff | 20:16 |
| mordred | sorry - I was reading out of context - those lines at the bottom are lines that describe "Open Community" | 20:16 |
| jeblair | ah that's different; let me put a comment there | 20:16 |
| mordred | yeah. thanks | 20:16 |
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| * mordred is bad at reading | 20:17 | |
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| jeblair | me too | 20:17 |
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| dhellmann | mordred , jeblair : don't feel bad. I commented about an addition that was actually a removal yesterday. Diffs are hard. | 20:17 |
| mordred | dhellmann: maybe we could replace them with something more trendy and hipster | 20:17 |
| mordred | dhellmann: like emoji or something | 20:17 |
| ttx | which is why I want to remove the duplication in the first place :) | 20:17 |
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| sdague | blockchain emoji | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | mordred: needs more social | 20:18 |
| mordred | sdague: YES! | 20:18 |
| ttx | alright approving now | 20:18 |
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| annegentle | heh | 20:18 |
| mordred | sdague: we should definitely replace diffs with something based on blockchain | 20:18 |
| lifeless | is the mission in the foundation docs? | 20:18 |
| ttx | #topic Add interop and endusers to OpenStack Mission | 20:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add interop and endusers to OpenStack Mission (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:18 | |
| mordred | blockchain is the new docker | 20:18 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/264135 | 20:18 |
| ttx | So... this resolution is the first step in the likely long road to updating our mission statement | 20:18 |
| ttx | This was introduced by mordred in Tokyo during the joint meeting with the board | 20:18 |
| mestery | mordred: lol | 20:18 |
| ttx | The goal being to mention "interoperability" and "end users" in the stated goals | 20:18 |
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| ttx | During that meeting we concluded that the mission statement was sufficiently central to OpenStack that it would be preferable that both the board and the TC agree to the change | 20:19 |
| ttx | The first step is to propose a wording, and this is what some of us came up with | 20:19 |
| ttx | We tried to be additive, and to minimize the change | 20:19 |
| sdague | yeh, seems good to me | 20:19 |
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| annegentle | especially end users | 20:19 |
| ttx | alright, ready to approve unless there are questions | 20:20 |
| jeblair | lgtm | 20:20 |
| jeblair | annegentle, mordred, ttx: thank you for that! :) | 20:20 |
| ttx | good to have lots of votes on this one | 20:20 |
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| ttx | approved | 20:20 |
| ttx | russellb, mordred: could you bring that to the board, or should I ? | 20:21 |
| annegentle | now we all should look for 1-2 tasks we can do to advocate for users :) | 20:21 |
| russellb | ttx: i can ask for it to be on the next board meeting agenda | 20:21 |
| ttx | annegentle: now we can't pretend we didn't know :) | 20:21 |
| mordred | ttx: yes, russelb is good at doing things | 20:21 |
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| ttx | I votes for him. | 20:21 |
| annegentle | ttx: heh | 20:21 |
| mordred | s/russelb/russellb/ | 20:21 |
| ttx | and voted too | 20:21 |
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| ttx | #topic Brainstorming about what the TC would like to see on the "upstream dev" track in Austin | 20:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Brainstorming about what the TC would like to see on the "upstream dev" track in Austin (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:22 | |
| annegentle | thanks russellb | 20:22 |
| russellb | thanks :) | 20:22 |
| ttx | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/austin-upstream-dev-track-ideas | 20:22 |
| annegentle | so weird to see "in Austin" (just have to say) | 20:22 |
| ttx | So.. I hope we'll just have good submissions through the normal CFP process | 20:22 |
| ttx | But there may still be things we really want to see covered there | 20:22 |
| jeblair | annegentle: they keep it weird there | 20:22 |
| ttx | and for which nudging some people to make a proposal could help in getting the right content there | 20:22 |
| ttx | let's see what we have | 20:22 |
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| annegentle | jeblair: so I hear | 20:23 |
| annegentle | jeblair: not as weird as portland I also hear | 20:23 |
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| annegentle | ttx: I added "How do you even doc?" | 20:23 |
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| mordred | annegentle: I think portland favors strange rather than weird, since they don't like bandwagoning | 20:25 |
| annegentle | ha! | 20:25 |
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| ttx | frankly it all feels like things people would naturally submit... is there any must-have in there for which having a volunteer is absolutely necessary ? | 20:25 |
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| * dhellmann hopes coming up with suggestions wasn't the same as volunteering | 20:25 | |
| dansmith | mordred: thank you for noticing the difference | 20:26 |
| sdague | dhellmann: ++ | 20:26 |
| annegentle | we do usually find session leaders | 20:26 |
| ttx | it is not | 20:26 |
| sdague | yeh, I was hoping this was more of a pull than a push honestly at this stage | 20:26 |
| ttx | dhellmann: though some suggestions clearly point to someone ;) | 20:26 |
| dhellmann | annegentle : these are presentation ideas, though, right? so we need speakers to write talks. | 20:26 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I'll work on obfuscating those | 20:27 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: yea and they're being recorded so nearly workshoppy if we make the most of videos | 20:27 |
| dhellmann | annegentle : ++ | 20:27 |
| sdague | like we should probably rope dansmith into doing a developing for upgradability talk (like the cp session from last time) | 20:27 |
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| ttx | sdague: yes we should | 20:27 |
| dhellmann | sdague : added as 4.6 | 20:27 |
| ttx | nudge nudge | 20:28 |
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| annegentle | I made up workshoppy of course but yes, these need to be polished and re-usable | 20:28 |
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| ttx | any large development process change that we really need to communicate ? | 20:29 |
| ttx | I think the last one was reno | 20:30 |
| annegentle | explain release tags? | 20:30 |
| annegentle | (I even stumbled on it myself) | 20:30 |
| ttx | the CFP-closes-two-months-before-event is going to bite us | 20:30 |
| lifeless | I've put it on the etherpad | 20:30 |
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| lifeless | but I think socialising how to work with DLM's is a thing to do | 20:30 |
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| dhellmann | annegentle : let's talk offline about what you mean by that, it may be covered by our presentation in tokyo | 20:30 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: ok cool | 20:31 |
| ttx | dhellmann: which no dev attended | 20:31 |
| dhellmann | if I'm wrong, we can add it to the list | 20:31 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: true, but we can share the link to the video | 20:31 |
| ttx | also, cats | 20:31 |
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| annegentle | lolcats? | 20:31 |
| dhellmann | we're not expecting all of them to come to these, are we? | 20:31 |
| ttx | just cats | 20:31 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: no but we are expecting all the attendees to be | 20:32 |
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| dhellmann | k | 20:32 |
| ttx | sdague: what would be the next step with this brainstorming ? keep it live and have it trigger volunteers ? | 20:33 |
| ttx | maybe start a -dev thread on it | 20:33 |
| sdague | yeh, it's probably worth sharing as a -dev thread | 20:33 |
| ttx | I should do that | 20:33 |
| fungi | just to clarify, the anticipated audience are mostly not the sort of people who will be in design sessions 100% of the time (currenty active contributors), but rather people with some development background who are attending general conference talks (maybe also new or less active contributors)? | 20:33 |
| ttx | explaining what the track is about and all | 20:33 |
| annegentle | ttx: I did this one weird trick with grep through months of IRC logs, to see what questions newcomers had, do we have any similar analysis of what devs are asking? | 20:33 |
| ttx | fungi: no | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | fungi : no, these will not run concurrently with design sessions | 20:34 |
| fungi | ohhhh | 20:34 |
| fungi | that helps a bunch | 20:34 |
| ttx | fungi: it's running on the Monday, when the design summit is not started yet, and is meant for openstack upstream devs | 20:34 |
| annegentle | ttx: looking for a data set that's not us, since we're not the intended audience, ya know? | 20:34 |
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| * thingee can volunteer to fill speaker slots | 20:34 | |
| lifeless | if only I'd pushed through that dev survey | 20:34 |
| lifeless | I keep stalling on it :/ | 20:34 |
| sdague | annegentle: actually, I think the target audience is us | 20:34 |
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| ttx | yes, all of us | 20:34 |
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| annegentle | sdague: ok, for leveling up your dev skillz? that sort of thing? | 20:34 |
| ttx | annegentle: and learn what you need to learn | 20:35 |
| sdague | I feel like this is going to be way more useful if each of us came up with 1 "you know, I really wish I understood X more" | 20:35 |
| annegentle | sdague: yeah | 20:35 |
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| lifeless | sdague: ++ | 20:35 |
| annegentle | do we have any data on which contributor pages or videos get the most views already? | 20:35 |
| ttx | #action ttx to explain on -dev what the track is about and point people to the etherpad | 20:36 |
| edleafe | submitted anonymously, since we all know all that stuff already, of course | 20:36 |
| sdague | honestly, an overview of the neutron resource model, and what you need to put a thing on the network would be great. | 20:36 |
| sdague | edleafe: or we are big enough to admit that we don't know everything | 20:36 |
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| edleafe | sdague: :) | 20:37 |
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| anteaya | annegentle: I think that would have to come from jimmy wouldn't it? | 20:37 |
| annegentle | ttx: I'll chase the data angle | 20:37 |
| ttx | talk about new features in some lib that all projects should probably take advantage of | 20:37 |
| annegentle | anteaya: I'll start with a request at the foundation | 20:38 |
| ttx | etc | 20:38 |
| annegentle | anteaya: who's jimmy? | 20:38 |
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| fungi | i'm assuming a vulnerability management process presentation would fit best in the cross-project themes section? or is there a better section for horizontal effort presentations? | 20:38 |
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| anteaya | annegentle: jimmy macarthur | 20:38 |
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| dhellmann | fungi : that seems like a good place for it | 20:38 |
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| ttx | fungi: sounds good | 20:39 |
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| ttx | alright, I'll push that fun page to the rest of the world | 20:40 |
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| ttx | sdague: you can reply to that and suggest people reply with "one thing that as an upstream dev I would really like to learn more about" | 20:40 |
| ttx | since that's a brilliant idea | 20:40 |
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| sdague | sure | 20:40 |
| ttx | should be a mine of presentations ideas | 20:41 |
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| ttx | alright, lets move on but you can continue on the etherpad | 20:41 |
| fungi | hrm... bindep integration in the new developer-facing features that need adoption category or the developer-oriented infra category? | 20:41 |
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| fungi | meh, i'll just pick one | 20:41 |
| ttx | skipping next topic since that was not updated | 20:41 |
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| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:42 | |
| ttx | gothicmindfood had something to mention | 20:42 |
| gothicmindfood | hey everyone! | 20:42 |
| lifeless | fungi: either | 20:42 |
| * mestery waves at gothicmindfood | 20:42 | |
| ttx | otherwise we can reconsider (again) how we approve cross-project specs | 20:42 |
| gothicmindfood | I have a #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Leadershiptraining with some info/thoughts gathered on leadership training | 20:43 |
| * mordred for one supports his new zingtrain overlords | 20:43 | |
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| mordred | (would be interested in participating) | 20:44 |
| gothicmindfood | after asking around for some opinions/thoughts I put together a few ideas, and I'll be sending an email to Mark Collier soon to talk foundation funding | 20:44 |
| * thingee has a couple of things for opend discussion | 20:44 | |
| gothicmindfood | I purposely gathered intel/data from folks who had *ahem* diverse opinions on this the last time it was brought up in a meeting | 20:44 |
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| ttx | I'm fine attending, if I can be available | 20:45 |
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| gothicmindfood | and that was awesome. So I welcome more thoughts or volunteers who'd be interested in participating | 20:45 |
| ttx | sounds like they have an interesting approach | 20:45 |
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| gothicmindfood | ttx: that, and good food. which is the only reason mordred is interested :) | 20:45 |
| mordred | also in favor of sending a team of potentially skeptical scouts to come and report back | 20:46 |
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| jeblair | mordred: i was thinking you were in the generally skeptical camp last time we talked | 20:46 |
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| gothicmindfood | yeah - I put that in the etherpad write up, but I want to reiterate: I think the more skeptics that go, the better | 20:46 |
| jeblair | mordred: food is sufficient motivation? :) | 20:46 |
| mordred | I am - but also the sandwiches are AMAZING | 20:46 |
| ttx | jeblair: of course it is | 20:46 |
| mordred | and honestly, if I have any amount of skepticism, I'd be a good candidate to give it a try | 20:46 |
| ttx | gothicmindfood: ok, keep us posted on where that goes | 20:47 |
| gothicmindfood | ttx: will do. | 20:47 |
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| ttx | back on crossproject stuff... | 20:47 |
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| ttx | Last time we discussed cross-project spec approval, we said that it required community consensus, and that the most convenient way to acknowledge consensus was to ask the TC members to validate that there was consensus | 20:47 |
| lifeless | I'm fine with a or B | 20:47 |
| lifeless | I'd like to go | 20:47 |
| ttx | Hence the current system - everyone reviews the spec and when there is consensus, we push for a rubberstamping by the tc | 20:47 |
| annegentle | gothicmindfood: are there dates yet? | 20:47 |
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| lifeless | I've seen bad things in the space, but also good stuff, and good can be amazing | 20:47 |
| ttx | But I think we have an issue if TC members only look at cross-project specs only once they have reached community consensus | 20:47 |
| annegentle | (sorry, had to read then type) | 20:47 |
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| jeblair | gothicmindfood: as a self-identified skeptic, i appreciate the creative solution you are proposing and the work that must have gone into developing it. :) | 20:48 |
| ttx | because then the current system is broken | 20:48 |
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| ttx | jeblair: +1 | 20:48 |
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| ttx | jeblair, lifeless: so if you consider your cross-project specs vote is similar to your resolution votes, then we have a problem | 20:50 |
| ttx | since you are supposed to have already voted +1 on the spec and use your +2 to say "yes, I see consensus" | 20:50 |
| gothicmindfood | annegentle: no dates, unless you look at prescheduled options (option A) - the link I just added shows those. Option B would be on OpenStack's timetable | 20:50 |
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| lifeless | ttx: is this documented ? | 20:50 |
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| jeblair | ttx: the thing that caught my eye earlier was the idea that we're not actually voting. i think we are voting on them to give them the weight of a tc vote. | 20:50 |
| lifeless | ttx: like, is there a manual I missed reading? | 20:50 |
| thingee | so I'm fine with getting more consensus from ptls or cross-project spec liaisons (https://review.openstack.org/266072) before approaching tc. At some point though, we need to move on though regardless of everyone being attentive. | 20:50 |
| annegentle | thanks gothicmindfood | 20:50 |
| ttx | lifeless: it was discussed in this meeting | 20:51 |
| gothicmindfood | jeblair: thanks! Coming from my favorite skeptic, I appreciate that :) | 20:51 |
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| ttx | might be documented, let me check | 20:51 |
| lifeless | ttx: the TC rotates | 20:51 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I agree with jeblair. I thought that once we approved these specs, we backed them up. | 20:51 |
| lifeless | yah | 20:51 |
| ttx | jeblair: oh, we ARE voting. But before it comes to rubberstamp | 20:51 |
| lifeless | so there are multiple layers here | 20:51 |
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| dhellmann | which is not the same as vote +1 at first and +2 later, which is a confusing process but I guess OK. | 20:52 |
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| ttx | basically our vote is not a +2, it's the same level as a PTL +1 | 20:52 |
| lifeless | README.rst in openstack-specs does *not* describe special voting mechanisms or anything | 20:52 |
| ttx | PTLs are at least as important than us in getting the spec approved | 20:52 |
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| jeblair | ttx: how they get on the agenda, and how we go about actually achieving the consensus we desire are not things i have strong opinions on -- only that our vote means it is a real tc vote. | 20:52 |
| dhellmann | ttx: probably more, since they have to implement them | 20:52 |
| ttx | dhellmann: right | 20:52 |
| dhellmann | jeblair : ++ | 20:52 |
| lifeless | nor does its CONTRIBUTING.rst | 20:52 |
| ttx | lifeless: yeah, we may have relied on oral tradition there :/ | 20:53 |
| dhellmann | ttx: it sounds like we need a TC section in the PTG | 20:53 |
| ttx | mostly because the crossproject meeting was just after this one and that's where those were discussed | 20:53 |
| dhellmann | or an expanded one, if there is already one | 20:53 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: that would be nice as well | 20:53 |
| lifeless | but also, repos with different rules should have them locally documented IMO | 20:53 |
| ttx | oh well | 20:53 |
| ttx | that doesn't solve the issue | 20:53 |
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| dhellmann | lifeless : true | 20:53 |
| ttx | which is TC members should look at those specs earlier | 20:54 |
| dhellmann | lifeless : but a "here are your duties" list would be helpful. maybe that should go into the governance repo, though | 20:54 |
| ttx | the same way we ask PTLs to look at them | 20:54 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: yes | 20:54 |
| ttx | if you wait for it to be pushed to the TC agenda, we have an issue | 20:54 |
| ttx | since it's not a TC item, it's a crossproject item | 20:54 |
| ttx | the only reason it's pushed as a TC item is a technicality | 20:55 |
| ttx | to get final rubberstamp on it | 20:55 |
| ttx | since we have no other way to "approve" a cross project thing | 20:55 |
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| lifeless | so | 20:55 |
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| lifeless | there are two disconnected issues | 20:56 |
| lifeless | one is the weird voting setup on the repo | 20:56 |
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| lifeless | by weird I mean non-standard | 20:56 |
| jeblair | whew | 20:56 |
| ttx | right | 20:56 |
| * jeblair sits back down | 20:56 | |
| lifeless | separately there is 'are tc members not reading cross project specs enough' | 20:56 |
| lifeless | I don't know that we have evidence/concerns on that | 20:57 |
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| lifeless | since jeblair, me and dhellmann seem to be more on the 'if we're voting, we're voting' angle | 20:57 |
| lifeless | but ttx seems worried about the 'are folk reading' angle | 20:57 |
| dhellmann | lifeless : I'm also worried that folks aren't reading | 20:57 |
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| lifeless | dhellmann: ack | 20:57 |
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| dhellmann | not just the TC, though | 20:58 |
| ttx | basically we raise those at the TC meeting to give it the final approval push, but lately it felt like that's when TC members start to register objections on them | 20:58 |
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| ttx | (or others for that matter) | 20:58 |
| dhellmann | see https://review.openstack.org/#/c/236712/ for example, which thingee wanted us to consider for approval today but that has a very small number of contributors | 20:59 |
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| ttx | meaning the "consensus" we are supposedly rubberstamping is not really there yet, and we are having a technical discussion about the spec rather than a social discussion about the presence of consensus | 20:59 |
| dhellmann | we're basically in a state where if someone wants to do cross-project work, they already have to be well known and very noisy about it to get anywhere | 20:59 |
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| dhellmann | which means we're not doing enough to grow leaders within the community | 21:00 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: yeah | 21:00 |
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| ttx | excluding non-TC members from the technical discussion | 21:00 |
| ttx | and we are out of time | 21:00 |
| ttx | and the cross-project meeting starts :) | 21:00 |
| *** amrith is now known as _amrith_ | 21:00 | |
| cdent | I think you're getting at some of the fundamental economics of openstack there | 21:00 |
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| cdent | we're paid | 21:00 |
| thingee | I would like to say quickly while I have the tc's attention | 21:00 |
| cdent | it make it weird | 21:00 |
| thingee | please attend the cross-project meeting to discuss the cross-project spec liaison which aims on getting consensus from each team for spec for approval | 21:01 |
| thingee | at least improving it | 21:01 |
| annegentle | yes | 21:01 |
| annegentle | please | 21:01 |
| ttx | I'll be there in a minute | 21:01 |
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| ttx | closing here first | 21:01 |
| ttx | Thanks everyone | 21:01 |
| * harlowja joined twitter recently to be more noisy | 21:01 | |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:01 | |
| harlowja | lol | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 12 21:01:40 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-01-12-20.02.html | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-01-12-20.02.txt | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-01-12-20.02.log.html | 21:01 |
| thingee | courtesy ping for Qiming TravT gordc dirk mriedem SergeyLukjanov | 21:01 |
| thingee | courtesy ping for daemontool jroll boris-42 redrobot flaper87 rhochmuth | 21:01 |
| thingee | courtesy ping for fungi flwang dims vipul johnthetubaguy rakhmerov | 21:01 |
| *** macsz has quit IRC | 21:01 | |
| thingee | courtesy ping for docaedo stevemar mtreinish bswartz adam_g adrian_otto | 21:01 |
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| thingee | courtesy ping for zigo Piet sdake mugsie sheeprine thinrichs | 21:01 |
| thingee | courtesy ping for jklare loquacities smelikyan Daisy skraynev odyssey4me | 21:01 |
| thingee | courtesy ping for catherineD dhellmann dprince hyakuhei notmyname devkulkarni | 21:01 |
| fungi | hey-o | 21:01 |
| dims | o/ | 21:01 |
| thingee | courtesy ping for emilienm cp16net claudiub armax david-lyle angdraug | 21:02 |
| thingee | courtesy ping for smcginnis dtroyer | 21:02 |
| thingee | please meet in #openstack-meeting-cp | 21:02 |
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| annegentle | can't wait to see how long this list is | 21:02 |
| EmilienM | hello | 21:02 |
| harlowja | thingee why am i not in thee courtesy ping list, lol | 21:02 |
| ttx | is thaoh that's right we are still on this channel | 21:02 |
| adam_g | hiya | 21:02 |
| docaedo | o/ | 21:02 |
| ttx | harlowja: it's opt in | 21:02 |
| harlowja | oh | 21:02 |
| claudiub | o/ | 21:02 |
| annegentle | oh yeah #openstack-meeting-cp | 21:02 |
| * harlowja needs to request a courtesy call | 21:02 | |
| lifeless | I was in it, I keep getting dropped :) | 21:02 |
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| docaedo | I made the courtesy ping list! wheee! | 21:02 |
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| harlowja | someday i'll be that cool | 21:03 |
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| thingee | ttx, harlowja I actually just grabbed ptls from the big tent list. I think this will change depending on how the cross-project spec liaison discussion goes | 21:11 |
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| harlowja | thingee its ok, i'm just whining | 21:12 |
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| harlowja | lol | 21:12 |
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| ttx | we should have a bot feature | 21:12 |
| ttx | optin pinglists | 21:12 |
| ttx | !pinglist-add cp-meeting +ttx | 21:13 |
| openstack | ttx: Error: "pinglist-add" is not a valid command. | 21:13 |
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| mtreinish | ttx: why not bake it into the ical yaml thing? | 21:13 |
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| ttx | we need the bot to parrot it though | 21:13 |
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| mtreinish | so the meetbot just parses the yaml (or the ical) | 21:14 |
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| ttx | I don't think it does | 21:14 |
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| mtreinish | ttx: right, I was proposing that's what we add :) | 21:14 |
| ttx | ah, got you | 21:14 |
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| ttx | misinterpreted your "so" | 21:14 |
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| ttx | mtreinish: YAFWP (yet another fun weekend project) | 21:15 |
| mtreinish | ah sorry, I have a bad habit of prepending 'so' for no reason | 21:15 |
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| mtreinish | ttx: heh, yeah it shouldn't be too hard :) | 21:16 |
| ttx | so, yeah. Me too | 21:16 |
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| fungi | meetbot does take plugins at least | 21:26 |
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| fungi | granted, it's supybot which runs on twisted, so there's lots of fun to be had there, for possibly masochistic definitions of "fun" | 21:27 |
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