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| dolphm | thingee: yes, i do believe so | 00:24 |
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| yamamoto_ | hi | 07:03 |
| yamamoto_ | #startmeeting networking_midonet | 07:03 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 2 07:03:46 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is yamamoto_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 07:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 07:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking_midonet' | 07:03 |
| yamamoto_ | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NetworkingMidoNet agenda | 07:05 |
| yamamoto_ | #topic Announcements | 07:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:05 | |
| yamamoto_ | icehouse and juno will be EOL | 07:05 |
| yamamoto_ | #topic Bugs | 07:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:06 | |
| yamamoto_ | there are a few critical bugs but they seem to be backend issues. | 07:06 |
| yamamoto_ | as it seems i'm alone, i guess i'll continue to be bug deputy | 07:07 |
| yamamoto_ | #topic Removal of old non-standard branches | 07:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Removal of old non-standard branches (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:07 | |
| yamamoto_ | we have a list of non-standard branches. see the meeting wiki for the list. | 07:08 |
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| yamamoto_ | most (all?) of them seem to be no longer necessary | 07:08 |
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| yamamoto_ | i'm going to request removal of these branches. | 07:08 |
| yamamoto_ | #topic Open Discussion | 07:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:09 | |
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| yamamoto_ | i don't think we have anything else to discuss. | 07:09 |
| yamamoto_ | bye! | 07:09 |
| yamamoto_ | #endmeeting | 07:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 07:09 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 2 07:09:42 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 07:09 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-02-02-07.03.html | 07:09 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-02-02-07.03.txt | 07:09 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-02-02-07.03.log.html | 07:09 |
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| anteaya | #startmeeting third-party | 08:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 2 08:00:44 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 08:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 08:00 |
| anteaya | hello | 08:00 |
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| lennyb | anteaya: hi | 08:02 |
| anteaya | hey lennyb | 08:02 |
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| anteaya | how are you? | 08:02 |
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| lennyb | fine, thanks. how was your trip to the Britain? | 08:04 |
| anteaya | very good, I learned a lot about British culture, things I couldn't have read in a book | 08:05 |
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| anteaya | I really like Bristol, it is a nice city | 08:05 |
| lennyb | Crossing roads was a challenge for me, there :) | 08:05 |
| anteaya | ah, do you mean driving on the left side or when walking getting to the other side of the road? | 08:06 |
| lennyb | getting to the other side. my driving instincts did not let me take 'a risk' to drive there :), | 08:07 |
| anteaya | yeah I didn't drive there either for the same reason | 08:08 |
| anteaya | and yes understanding how their footpaths are organized to get where I needed to go was an adventure | 08:09 |
| lennyb | btw, I dont have anything to discuss and I know it's a very late for you, so feel free ... | 08:09 |
| anteaya | ha ha ha | 08:09 |
| anteaya | thanks | 08:09 |
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| anteaya | yeah I don't have anything to discuss today either | 08:09 |
| anteaya | but that is okay, at least I'm not on a bus today | 08:09 |
| anteaya | :) | 08:09 |
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| lennyb | :) . Was this a business or pleasure visit? | 08:10 |
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| anteaya | business | 08:10 |
| anteaya | the nova mid-cycle | 08:10 |
| lennyb | it's nice too :) | 08:11 |
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| anteaya | it was a productive meeting | 08:12 |
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| anteaya | many things were discussed and explained | 08:13 |
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| anteaya | to good effect | 08:13 |
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| anteaya | I'm back in the UK in 2 weeks | 08:15 |
| anteaya | for the operators mid-cycle in Manchester | 08:15 |
| anteaya | will you be there, lennyb? | 08:15 |
| lennyb | No | 08:16 |
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| anteaya | :( | 08:19 |
| anteaya | will anyone from your company be there? | 08:19 |
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| lennyb | nope | 08:19 |
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| lennyb | on the other hand, might be. Is there anything you need/want to discuss? I can check if someone goes | 08:20 |
| anteaya | that is a shame | 08:20 |
| anteaya | well just to be at the event and included in the discussion | 08:21 |
| anteaya | you never know what comes up in discussion | 08:21 |
| anteaya | and I figured since it is in Europe, European folks would be more likely to attend | 08:21 |
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| anteaya | I didn't have anything specific | 08:22 |
| anteaya | if I did, I would just ask you :) | 08:23 |
| lennyb | :) | 08:23 |
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| anteaya | okay well thanks for your time today lennyb | 08:24 |
| anteaya | I guess I will close the meeting | 08:24 |
| anteaya | enjoy the rest of your day | 08:24 |
| anteaya | and see you next week | 08:25 |
| anteaya | #endmeeting | 08:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 08:25 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 2 08:25:05 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 08:25 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-02-02-08.00.html | 08:25 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-02-02-08.00.txt | 08:25 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-02-02-08.00.log.html | 08:25 |
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| alex_xu | #startmeeting nova api | 12:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 2 12:00:02 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is alex_xu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 12:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 12:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_api' | 12:00 |
| alex_xu | who is here today? | 12:00 |
| cdent | o/ | 12:00 |
| gmann_ | hi | 12:00 |
| oomichi | hi | 12:00 |
| eliqiao | o/ | 12:00 |
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| johnthetubaguy | o/ | 12:00 |
| * alex_xu found he have slow network | 12:00 | |
| alex_xu | welcome back everyone! | 12:01 |
| *** haomaiwang has quit IRC | 12:01 | |
| alex_xu | let's run the meeting | 12:01 |
| alex_xu | #topic content patches up for review | 12:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "content patches up for review (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:01 | |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:master+topic:bp/complete-todo-in-api-concept-doc,n,z | 12:01 |
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| alex_xu | thanks for the review about microversion! | 12:01 |
| alex_xu | the last few concept about server we left | 12:01 |
| alex_xu | I think we can finish them in Mitaka | 12:02 |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/api-site+branch:master+topic:fix-compute-api-ref,n,z | 12:02 |
| jichen | o/ | 12:02 |
| sdague | o/ | 12:02 |
| alex_xu | jichen: still thanks for all your work on the api ref :) | 12:02 |
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| jichen | alex_xu: :) | 12:03 |
| Kevin_Zheng | o/ | 12:03 |
| alex_xu | And as we have a lot of feature merged, so I think we should keep eye on some feature may need update api concept doc, we should ask people help us keep the doc update to date. | 12:03 |
| alex_xu | So happy when I saw this patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/273376/3 | 12:03 |
| oomichi | alex_xu: all TODOs can be removed with current patches from api-ref? or need more new patches? | 12:03 |
| alex_xu | oomichi: need more patches, there are few in servers concept | 12:04 |
| oomichi | alex_xu: ok, I see | 12:04 |
| alex_xu | wait, I remember there are some about network and volume api, but I think servers concept is more important | 12:04 |
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| * sdague stars all these reviews to come back to later | 12:04 | |
| johnthetubaguy | there was a discussion about network APIs this morning | 12:04 |
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| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: discuss at where? | 12:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | it would be good to describe our preference for configuring ports outside of Nova | 12:05 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: +1 | 12:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | just in the nova channel, a few hours back | 12:05 |
| alex_xu | cool, I will scrollback later | 12:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | also the get me a network, that is on its way, makes the "do the default networking" think work for more use cases | 12:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | but anyways, just an aside, it would be nice to get that into the docs | 12:06 |
| alex_xu | and a little describe about image api also, about user should use glance api instead of image api in nova | 12:06 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: I can't wait for that, I have some weird code in grenade to smooth over the nova-net / neutron differences | 12:06 |
| gmann_ | johnthetubaguy: +1 for documenting those | 12:06 |
| sdague | alex_xu: right, I think a piece of that is we're going to need to start returning imageRef links directly back to glance, which we only do on the image proxy today | 12:07 |
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| johnthetubaguy | sdague: ack seems like loads of folks are feeling that pain | 12:07 |
| alex_xu | cool, let us finish the concept doc in Mitaka, and we should begin to ask people update doc when there patch merged | 12:08 |
| sdague | I think we're probably at the point in the cycle where we should get up a wish list for things we think should change in the API in the next cycle, and start prioritizing | 12:08 |
| sdague | so we can hit the ground running | 12:08 |
| alex_xu | sdague: +1 | 12:08 |
| jichen | +1 | 12:08 |
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| sdague | I think structured errors in json would be one of the best adds, but it going to take a lot of people working together on it. | 12:08 |
| alex_xu | sdague: how can we start that? create an etherpad first, then people begin put the idea in? | 12:09 |
| sdague | alex_xu: yeh, I think etherpad | 12:09 |
| sdague | you want to start one? and we can discuss during open discussion at the end of meetings over the next month | 12:09 |
| alex_xu | sdague: yes | 12:09 |
| alex_xu | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newtown-nova-api-idea | 12:09 |
| alex_xu | create one is fast :) | 12:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | I think its newton? | 12:09 |
| gmann_ | sdague: alex_xu structured errors in json ? | 12:10 |
| alex_xu | oops, sorry... | 12:10 |
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| johnthetubaguy | but top idea to collect those now | 12:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | I think that should include the policy discovery work | 12:10 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: ++ | 12:10 |
| alex_xu | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-nova-api-ideas | 12:10 |
| alex_xu | ^ the new one... | 12:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | more documentation around the "find my external IP" workflows, and other interop like things | 12:10 |
| sdague | yep, sounds great | 12:10 |
| alex_xu | and swagger one | 12:11 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: thanks, you already begin to edit it :) | 12:11 |
| * oomichi knows the next version is newton now | 12:12 | |
| alex_xu | do we want to discuss idea now, or leave it to next few weeks, just put the idea into the etherpad now? | 12:12 |
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| johnthetubaguy | lets just revisit at the next meeting? | 12:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | while folks type ideas over the week? | 12:13 |
| gmann_ | +1 | 12:13 |
| * johnthetubaguy needs to remember to talk about the ML thread about policy | 12:13 | |
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| sdague | johnthetubaguy: ++ | 12:13 |
| alex_xu | cool | 12:13 |
| alex_xu | bad news is Chineses new year in next week... | 12:14 |
| alex_xu | but I may try to attend the meeting | 12:14 |
| alex_xu | anyway let's move on | 12:14 |
| alex_xu | #topic remove project id | 12:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "remove project id (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:14 | |
| sdague | that code has landed | 12:14 |
| sdague | it's microversion 2.18 | 12:15 |
| alex_xu | sdague: all of them? | 12:15 |
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| sdague | it was only one change at the end of the day | 12:15 |
| alex_xu | oh, I remember that, I +w... | 12:15 |
| sdague | there are some test cleanups that would be nice | 12:15 |
| jichen | sdague: do we need changes in python-novaclinet? | 12:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | alex_xu: lets say the week after for the deeper discussion, that seems OK | 12:15 |
| sdague | jichen: those are already in | 12:15 |
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| jichen | sdague: ok, | 12:15 |
| sdague | this devstack change would use this in normal runs - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/233079/ | 12:15 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: ok | 12:16 |
| sdague | however, there is a tempest negative test class that fails under that scenario, I've suggested we remove it | 12:16 |
| sdague | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/271467/ | 12:16 |
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| alex_xu | ok, sounds good | 12:18 |
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| johnthetubaguy | sdague: good point, they are testing odd things really | 12:18 |
| sdague | yeh, we just need to realize that sometimes the tests are no longer appropriate | 12:18 |
| sdague | honestly, I'd like to drop all the negative testing out of tempest and only do it in our functional stack. Especially as it's all supposed to be caught by jsonschema now for the most part | 12:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, agreed with that general direction | 12:20 |
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| oomichi | sdague: yeah, agree. but refstack is using some negative tests, so we need to take care for tempest consumers | 12:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | its tempting to make defcore test certain error cases, but I am not quite sure how to deal with that | 12:20 |
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| sdague | oomichi: I didn't think refstack was supposed to be using negative tests | 12:21 |
| oomichi | to be honest, I cannot find any merit why refstack is using them | 12:21 |
| gmann_ | sdague: oomichi i agree refstack should not tests so much negative testing at low level | 12:21 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I think its where a client needs to know how to recover from particular errors, but that probably isn't want most of those tests are doing anyways | 12:21 |
| gmann_ | its all component can make sure those. | 12:21 |
| sdague | this test was a bad choice for compatibility for sure | 12:21 |
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| oomichi | sdague: yes | 12:22 |
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| alex_xu | ok, so sounds goods for now | 12:23 |
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| alex_xu | let's move on? | 12:23 |
| * edleafe_ yawns | 12:23 | |
| sdague | alex_xu: ++ | 12:24 |
| alex_xu | #topic API futures - patches for approved specs | 12:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "API futures - patches for approved specs (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:24 | |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:master+topic:bp/api-sample-tests-with-all-extensions | 12:24 |
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| alex_xu | we merged part of those patches | 12:24 |
| alex_xu | looks like we track the work have effect | 12:24 |
| alex_xu | sdague: I saw you -1 one of them | 12:24 |
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| gmann_ | alex_xu: yea, server things are making more clean | 12:24 |
| gmann_ | sdague: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/243396/ | 12:24 |
| alex_xu | but I think it is ok, as we deprecated extension for legacy v2 api also | 12:24 |
| gmann_ | sdague: actually for v2 also extensions are deprecated | 12:25 |
| sdague | alex_xu: we deprecated it, we didn't drop it | 12:25 |
| sdague | if we drop these tests, we're going to break it | 12:25 |
| sdague | deprecated still means it needs to work | 12:25 |
| gmann_ | sdague: but same thing for v2.1 also | 12:25 |
| sdague | I'm fine if we don't test this on v2.1 | 12:25 |
| sdague | but on the legacy v2 stack, I think we still need this | 12:25 |
| alex_xu | sdague: emm...good point, deprecated != drop | 12:25 |
| alex_xu | actually we already merge some sample tests for merge legacy v2 and v2.1 tests | 12:26 |
| alex_xu | ok | 12:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | its good for the v2.1 tests to always test with all extensions on, but yeah, v2.0 probably should keep the existing stuff | 12:26 |
| sdague | my feeling is that extensions go away for real once we actually delete v2 legacy | 12:26 |
| gmann_ | yes, tests are shared among them and some are merged | 12:26 |
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| sdague | right, that's a bit problematic for what we want here | 12:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: I think thats the truth | 12:26 |
| alex_xu | ok, if we really feel uncomfortable for now, let wait for drop legacy v2 | 12:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: about the extensions being tied to legacy v2 that is | 12:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | for v2.1 tests, I really would like them only to work with all extensions on | 12:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | that might confuse things | 12:27 |
| sdague | alex_xu: yeh. Also auggy is working through adding some test cases to the api samples testing engine, which might let us go both ways | 12:27 |
| gmann_ | johnthetubaguy: sdague so in that case we should keep doc too? | 12:27 |
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| sdague | honestly, I think we need to write down what we expect here | 12:28 |
| alex_xu | sdague: that sounds cool, hope to see auggy's patch | 12:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, it feels like we are confused | 12:28 |
| sdague | maybe a spec or etherpad or something, just so we figure out where we are trying to get to | 12:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | +1 for a quick etherpad | 12:28 |
| johnthetubaguy | maybe use that newton one we just created? | 12:28 |
| alex_xu | sdague: +1 | 12:29 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: sure, though I think a bunch of this can still happen in mitaka, as it's test / doc fixes | 12:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: yeah, totally, thats a bit confusing I guess | 12:29 |
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| sdague | gmann_: can you start an etherpad for this? and we can make sure we're all on the same page before we move forward | 12:29 |
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| gmann_ | sdague: sure, will create separate one and link that to newton one | 12:30 |
| sdague | gmann_: great, thanks | 12:30 |
| gmann_ | sdague: ll be creating tomorrow morning | 12:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | cools | 12:30 |
| gmann_ | i will hold current patches till then | 12:30 |
| sdague | gmann_: works for me, just send a ping or an ML thread with the link and I'll put comments in it | 12:31 |
| gmann_ | sdague: sure. | 12:31 |
| alex_xu | gmann_: thanks for all test merge works :) | 12:31 |
| gmann_ | alex_xu: np :) | 12:31 |
| alex_xu | ok, cool, I think we can move on | 12:31 |
| alex_xu | #topic open | 12:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:31 | |
| alex_xu | there is one open in the agenda | 12:32 |
| alex_xu | NOTE about support "OS-SCH-HNT:scheduler_hints" as a subset of server dict in scheduler_hints.py:https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/api/openstack/compute/scheduler_hints.py#L34-L37Â "OS-DCF:diskConfig" is now a subset of server dict, quite strange to have scheduler_hints at top level. Question: should we do it in Newton? If do it, should we do it with microversion or not? | 12:32 |
| alex_xu | Kevin_Zheng: ^ are you here | 12:32 |
| Kevin_Zheng | yes | 12:32 |
| Kevin_Zheng | I'm heare | 12:32 |
| Kevin_Zheng | here | 12:32 |
| alex_xu | Kevin_Zheng: cool, your turn | 12:32 |
| Kevin_Zheng | Hi, a;; | 12:32 |
| sdague | I think that probably needs a spec, because the fallout of who we might break is unclear to me | 12:32 |
| Kevin_Zheng | sorry | 12:32 |
| gmann_ | I think we definitely need microversion | 12:33 |
| sdague | but it seems pretty sane | 12:33 |
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| sdague | yeh, definitely a microversion, which means it needs a spec | 12:33 |
| gmann_ | sdague: +1 for spec first | 12:33 |
| oomichi | alex_xu: nice point. From the client viewpoint, that makes difficult to implement client code. | 12:33 |
| alex_xu | +1 for microversion | 12:33 |
| Kevin_Zheng | OK then | 12:33 |
| Kevin_Zheng | I will prepare a spec first | 12:33 |
| oomichi | alex_xu: I faced the problem on tempest side also before | 12:33 |
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| Kevin_Zheng | And I have another question | 12:33 |
| gmann_ | yea even while v2.1 also | 12:34 |
| Kevin_Zheng | or idea | 12:34 |
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| Kevin_Zheng | I saw this tag-instance bp was in the list | 12:34 |
| alex_xu | oomichi: ok, I just say +1, then I got a nice point :) | 12:34 |
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| Kevin_Zheng | can we talk about it ? | 12:34 |
| alex_xu | Kevin_Zheng: yes | 12:34 |
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| Kevin_Zheng | We want to use this feature in or productr | 12:35 |
| Kevin_Zheng | product | 12:35 |
| Kevin_Zheng | and we have a usecase like this | 12:35 |
| alex_xu | actually I found a problem in tag instance bp, I don't think '/' works in our wsgi framework, we may return that is back to api-wg, to define a better tag-name schema. | 12:35 |
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| Kevin_Zheng | we want some tags only available for the admin | 12:35 |
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| Kevin_Zheng | but we don't want to change the policy file, because then the normal user couldn't use this feature | 12:36 |
| Kevin_Zheng | how about add a column, admin_only to the table | 12:36 |
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| Kevin_Zheng | and only admin can change this field | 12:37 |
| Kevin_Zheng | if it is admin only, then non-admin cant see it | 12:37 |
| sdague | hmmmm | 12:37 |
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| johnthetubaguy | it feels like the protected properties that glance has | 12:37 |
| sdague | it almost feels like tags should namespace to roles | 12:37 |
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| johnthetubaguy | hmm, maybe | 12:37 |
| sdague | role:tag | 12:38 |
| alex_xu | or just record the owner of tag | 12:38 |
| sdague | and you can only see the tags for the roles | 12:38 |
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| sdague | that you are in | 12:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | so we haven't yet merged the current tags blueprint, it needs more review | 12:38 |
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| johnthetubaguy | sdague: hmm, but when you add them, which role gets them? you always need the prefix? | 12:38 |
| sdague | yeh, I do get the idea of different views on that though. Maybe we should debate that one in the spec | 12:38 |
| Kevin_Zheng | yes it will be very useful to do ops | 12:38 |
| sdague | do we have default role construct? | 12:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | feels like a good spec debate | 12:38 |
| sdague | yeh, this should also get a slot at summit I think | 12:39 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: not AFAIK | 12:39 |
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| Kevin_Zheng | Hm, just want to raise this up | 12:39 |
| sdague | because this is one of those things that 40 minutes face to face would help resolve | 12:39 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: +1 | 12:39 |
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| Kevin_Zheng | Hm, thanks alot | 12:39 |
| alex_xu | cool | 12:39 |
| sdague | Kevin_Zheng: in the mean time, please put your thoughts into the existing spec | 12:39 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: actually, it might be member, or just being in the tenant, that is the default | 12:39 |
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| sdague | johnthetubaguy: sure, but there is a visibility thing which is interesting | 12:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: +1 | 12:40 |
| Kevin_Zheng | sdague: sure I will do that | 12:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | so I think we have merged the current spec, so its probably a new newton spec | 12:40 |
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| alex_xu | I also will check '\' case, then feedback to author, hope he can fix the schema early if there is a problem. | 12:41 |
| johnthetubaguy | http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/nova-specs/specs/mitaka/approved/tag-instances.html | 12:41 |
| sdague | alex_xu: ++ | 12:41 |
| alex_xu | ok, cool, the last thing | 12:42 |
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| alex_xu | appreciate who can chair this meeting in next week, I may not there for Chineses new year | 12:42 |
| edleafe_ | Too early for me, sorry | 12:43 |
| sdague | alex_xu: I can do it | 12:43 |
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| alex_xu | sdague: thanks :) | 12:44 |
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| alex_xu | anymore open today? | 12:44 |
| * alex_xu pokes edleafe_ multiple times, help him get wakeup | 12:44 | |
| sdague | nothing from me | 12:44 |
| alex_xu | 3... | 12:44 |
| alex_xu | 2.. | 12:45 |
| alex_xu | 1. | 12:45 |
| alex_xu | thanks all! | 12:45 |
| alex_xu | #endmeeting | 12:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 12:45 | |
| edleafe_ | Thanks! | 12:45 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 2 12:45:20 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 12:45 |
| gmann_ | Thanks all | 12:45 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2016/nova_api.2016-02-02-12.00.html | 12:45 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2016/nova_api.2016-02-02-12.00.txt | 12:45 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2016/nova_api.2016-02-02-12.00.log.html | 12:45 |
| oomichi | thanks :) | 12:45 |
| Kevin_Zheng | bye | 12:45 |
| jichen | thanks~ | 12:45 |
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| johnthetubaguy | oops, I forgot my topic | 12:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | next time | 12:46 |
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| * eliqiao testing... | 12:52 | |
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| ihrachys | hi everyone, we'll start in 1 min | 14:00 |
| yamamoto | hi | 14:00 |
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| vikram_ | hi | 14:00 |
| hichihara | hi | 14:00 |
| mlavalle | o/ | 14:00 |
| Sam-I-Am | hello | 14:00 |
| hoangcx | hi | 14:00 |
| haleyb | hi | 14:00 |
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| rtheis | hi | 14:00 |
| gongysh | helo | 14:00 |
| scheuran | hi | 14:00 |
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| regXboi | o/ | 14:00 |
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| ihrachys | ok, I assume everyone grabbed a cup of coffee, so let's do it :) | 14:01 |
| ihrachys | #startmeeting networking | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 2 14:01:11 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ihrachys. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking' | 14:01 |
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| HenryG | o/ | 14:01 |
| xgerman | o/ | 14:01 |
| ihrachys | hi all, thanks for joining in this early hour (for some of you) | 14:01 |
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| ihrachys | as you now probably know, we are back to doing bi-weekly alternating meetings | 14:01 |
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| ihrachys | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/272494/ | 14:01 |
| ihrachys | and today is the first Tue meeting in the new year, yay! | 14:01 |
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| salv-orlando | aloha | 14:02 |
| ihrachys | (thanks everyone to make it revived) | 14:02 |
| amotoki | hi | 14:02 |
| ihrachys | Armando leans toward delegation [or maybe just some more sleep] :), so today I will run this meeting for you. | 14:02 |
| mhickey_ | Hello | 14:02 |
| ihrachys | and probably some more in the future. We’ll see. | 14:02 |
| ihrachys | ok... so... | 14:02 |
| ihrachys | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings Agenda | 14:02 |
| mhickey_ | ihrachys: thanks for reviving!:) | 14:02 |
| xgerman | +1 | 14:03 |
| ihrachys | today we’ll try to keep the meeting focused, as usual | 14:03 |
| ihrachys | the main goal for today is to follow up on milestone3 deliverables that we have not managed to cover the previous week | 14:03 |
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| ihrachys | I hope other sections won’t take much time. But they always say that. ;) | 14:03 |
| ihrachys | but first, some announcements | 14:03 |
| ihrachys | #topic Announcements | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:03 | |
| ihrachys | I remind everyone that we have a neutron mid-cycle in the cold and unforgiving Minnesota end of Feb | 14:04 |
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| ihrachys | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-January/084672.html | 14:04 |
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| Sam-I-Am | brrrr | 14:04 |
| ihrachys | right. I won't go. :P | 14:04 |
| ihrachys | so get some warm clothes and get ready ;) | 14:04 |
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| rossella_s | :) | 14:04 |
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| ihrachys | also, we have a code sprint for rolling upgrades, specifically for getting versioned objects for neutron core resources, in Brno mid March | 14:05 |
| ihrachys | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-January/085328.html | 14:05 |
| ihrachys | I will update the sprint etherpad with some travel tips later today | 14:05 |
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| mhickey_ | how warmer is Brno?! :) | 14:05 |
| rossella_s | thanks ihrachys | 14:05 |
| ihrachys | that one: | 14:05 |
| ihrachys | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/code-sprint-neutron-objects-brno | 14:05 |
| salv-orlando | compared to Minnesota is like hot | 14:05 |
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| ihrachys | mhickey_: it's 12 degrees Celsius right now here, pretty fine for start of Feb :) | 14:05 |
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| ihrachys | note: it's PLUS ;) | 14:06 |
| mhickey_ | ihrachys: sure is! :) | 14:06 |
| amotoki | :) | 14:06 |
| rossella_s | it's pretty warm everywhere in Europe this year | 14:06 |
| amotoki | warmer than tokyo | 14:06 |
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| akamyshnikova | hi, sorry for being late :( | 14:06 |
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| ihrachys | in March, sometimes you can walk in shorts. but no guarantees attached ;) | 14:06 |
| ihrachys | akamyshnikova: hi! :) | 14:06 |
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| ihrachys | final announcement is: call for papers for Austin is now closed as of yesterday | 14:07 |
| ihrachys | next stop: voting for talks and actually delivering them for those who will get through the filter. :) | 14:07 |
| mhickey_ | ihrachys: closing today | 14:07 |
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| amotoki | it was extended 1day | 14:07 |
| reedip | ihrachys its open till today | 14:07 |
| ihrachys | mhickey_: oh? I missed the extension. | 14:07 |
| mhickey_ | amotoki: yes, thanks | 14:07 |
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| mhickey_ | ihrachys: there was an issue yesterday | 14:07 |
| salv-orlando | ihrachys: some issues with the submission website apparently | 14:07 |
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| ajo | late o/ (sorry) | 14:08 |
| ihrachys | ok, then we are still good to do final update. | 14:08 |
| ihrachys | ok. it's all from me. no more announcements anyone? | 14:08 |
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| mhickey_ | FYI: The new deadline to submit a talk is February 2 at 11:59pm PST (February 3 at 7:59 UTC) | 14:09 |
| ihrachys | ok, let’s move on | 14:09 |
| ihrachys | mhickey_: thanks | 14:09 |
| ihrachys | #topic Bugs | 14:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:09 | |
| mlavalle | hi | 14:09 |
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| ihrachys | mlaville, the stage is yours. anything worth team attention from the previous week? | 14:09 |
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| ihrachys | sorry, mlavalle | 14:10 |
| mlavalle | it was a relatively quiet week.... Many bugs as usual, but not very many of importance | 14:10 |
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| mlavalle | worth highlighting: https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1540411 | 14:10 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1540411 in neutron "kilo: ValueError: git history requires a target version of pbr.version.SemanticVersion(2015.1.4), but target version is pbr.version.SemanticVersion(2015.1.3)" [Critical,In progress] - Assigned to Dave Walker (davewalker) | 14:10 |
| mlavalle | we have this critical one. It affects many projects, it is well known an a solution is being worked on | 14:10 |
| ihrachys | I think we struggle to merge https://review.openstack.org/271396 now | 14:10 |
| ihrachys | because there are some issues with linuxbridge job in both stable branches lately | 14:11 |
| ihrachys | I need to look at specific causes | 14:11 |
| ihrachys | njohnston_: I see you are the bug deputy for this week. thanks! | 14:11 |
| ihrachys | we need more volunteers for the upcoming weeks. anyone willing to cover for the week starting Feb 8? Feb 15? | 14:11 |
| njohnston_ | ihrachys: my pleasure! | 14:11 |
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| mhickey_ | ihrachys: I can do the week after njohnston_ | 14:11 |
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| ajo | mhickey_++ | 14:12 |
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| ihrachys | mhickey_: ok, please put your name in the Agenda page | 14:12 |
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| ihrachys | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings | 14:12 |
| ajo | njohnston++ | 14:12 |
| ajo | :) | 14:12 |
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| ihrachys | specifically, https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings#Bug_deputy | 14:12 |
| mhickey_ | ihrachys: sure. I am green so may need some help? | 14:12 |
| njohnston | mhickey: I'm green too, I'll share what notes I have | 14:12 |
| ihrachys | mhickey_: that's fine, let's talk during the week on the way forward. :) | 14:12 |
| rossella_s | mhickey_, we can help, no worries. Thanks for stepping up | 14:12 |
| ajo | mhickey_, I recommend you syncing with the exiting bug deputy by the end of the week :D | 14:12 |
| amotoki | njohnston covers the week of Feb 1. mhickey_ will cover Feb 8. | 14:12 |
| ihrachys | anyone for the week starting Feb 15? | 14:13 |
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| rossella_s | I can take it ihrachys | 14:13 |
| ihrachys | rossella_s++ | 14:13 |
| ihrachys | thanks folks, now we are packed for some more weeks! | 14:13 |
| mhickey_ | njohnston, ihrachys, rossella_s, ajo: thanks | 14:13 |
| mlavalle | mhickey_: There is a nice document in devref that works you through the process. Ping me | 14:13 |
| ihrachys | thanks to all volunteers. let’s move on to the juicy bits. | 14:13 |
| ihrachys | #topic Docs | 14:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:13 | |
| mhickey_ | mlavelle: ok, sure, thanks | 14:14 |
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| ihrachys | Sam-I-Am: anything we should be aware of? | 14:14 |
| Sam-I-Am | hey | 14:14 |
| ihrachys | hey | 14:14 |
| Sam-I-Am | the ongoing mtu stuff | 14:14 |
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| Sam-I-Am | not necessarily a docs thing, but its what i was working on for a while | 14:14 |
| Sam-I-Am | something we should probably solve for mitaka | 14:15 |
| ihrachys | Sam-I-Am: ok, I guess we proceed in mailing thread for now and then we'll see what's the way out of the maze, right? | 14:15 |
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| ihrachys | Sam-I-Am: depending on the scope of the changes. if it's just enforcing same mtu for the whole data path in compute hosts, it may be fine for Mitaka. | 14:15 |
| Sam-I-Am | i think we know how to fix it for the built-in drivers, it just a matter of... do we need a spec? who does the work? etc | 14:15 |
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| ihrachys | for the reference, it's around | 14:16 |
| Sam-I-Am | there was a spec from a couple releases ago that wasnt fully implemented | 14:16 |
| ihrachys | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-January/084241.html | 14:16 |
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| ihrachys | Sam-I-Am: ok cool, anything else? | 14:16 |
| Sam-I-Am | yeah | 14:16 |
| Sam-I-Am | for the folks that werent at last weeks meeting, the networking guide is now versioned | 14:17 |
| Sam-I-Am | meaning people can go back to versions for prior releases of openstack | 14:17 |
| ajo | Sam-I-Am, : very nice | 14:17 |
| ihrachys | piece of cake | 14:17 |
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| amotoki | mitaka version of networking guide is found at http://docs.openstack.org/draft/draft-index.html | 14:18 |
| Sam-I-Am | other than that, currently working on updates for mitaka, which includes debating the best way to add provider network support to the existing scenarios | 14:18 |
| amotoki | The draft index is not linked from the top page of docs.o.o | 14:18 |
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| Sam-I-Am | seems like a lot of people want "hybrid" options - boot VMs on provider networks and self-service/private networks | 14:18 |
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| Sam-I-Am | right now the classic scenarios only support booting VMs on private networks | 14:19 |
| ajo | Sam-I-Am, yes, I've listened to that kind of feedback too | 14:19 |
| Sam-I-Am | the hybrid scenario gets a bit more complex for first-timers... just another set of diagrams for attaching VMs to provider nets | 14:19 |
| ihrachys | Sam-I-Am: some people don't take on the new tenant-y thing real quick | 14:19 |
| Sam-I-Am | the other option is making another set of scenarios, but then they just proliferate :/ | 14:20 |
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| mlavalle | Sam-I-Am: I am also working on a chapter for the new external DNS integration functionality. I will push first version for review later this week | 14:21 |
| Sam-I-Am | my thinking now is just add on to the existing scenarios, sort of like we do with the install guide... one option built on another or somesuch | 14:21 |
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| ihrachys | mlavalle: cool | 14:21 |
| ihrachys | ok, I guess we need to move. thanks Sam-I-Am. and now for the most juicy part... | 14:22 |
| ihrachys | #topic Blueprints | 14:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:22 | |
| ihrachys | prev week, we started walking thru the BPs targeted for M3. we have not completed the list though. | 14:22 |
| ihrachys | so let’s do it. :) | 14:22 |
| ihrachys | #link https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/mitaka-3 | 14:22 |
| ihrachys | and the first one is | 14:22 |
| ihrachys | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/vm-without-l3-address | 14:22 |
| ihrachys | ajo: can you update us on ^? | 14:23 |
| ihrachys | I see some pieces are merged | 14:23 |
| ajo | ihrachys, give me a sec, you got me off guard :) | 14:23 |
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| ajo | can we move on, and get back to this one in a minute? :) | 14:23 |
| ihrachys | ok, let's move. we'll get back to it. | 14:24 |
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| ihrachys | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/ml2-lb-ratelimit-support | 14:24 |
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| ihrachys | it's on me (and slawek) | 14:24 |
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| ihrachys | I think we are still waiting for fullstack resources for linuxbridge, but apart from it, the qos patch itself is good to go. so hopefully we get it in M. | 14:24 |
| ihrachys | the next is... | 14:25 |
| ihrachys | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/add-tags-to-core-resources | 14:25 |
| ihrachys | amotoki: ^ any update? | 14:25 |
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| amotoki | hichihara volunteered for implementations. | 14:25 |
| hichihara | Yes. I guess that the spec will be merged soon. | 14:25 |
| amotoki | I need to do the final review on -spec. | 14:25 |
| hichihara | I have posted PoC patch | 14:25 |
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| ihrachys | do we think we get it in M? | 14:26 |
| hichihara | ihrachys: Of cource. | 14:26 |
| amotoki | I think we can. | 14:26 |
| ihrachys | that's cool. | 14:26 |
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| ihrachys | note everyone M3 is sometime start of March, so we have a month to get clear on all deliverables for M. | 14:27 |
| ihrachys | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/add-timestamp-attr | 14:27 |
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| amotoki | we can revisit the status two weeks later | 14:27 |
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| ihrachys | I suspect kevinbenton is not here. | 14:27 |
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| ihrachys | anyone has the status for the bp? | 14:27 |
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| ihrachys | I see some 3 patches in review at https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bp/add-port-timestamp,n,z | 14:28 |
| anteaya | week of feb 29 is m3: http://docs.openstack.org/releases/mitaka/schedule.html | 14:28 |
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| ajo | anteaya, thanks for the reminder | 14:28 |
| ihrachys | anteaya: thanks for the correction! so yeah, even less time to push code in. | 14:28 |
| anteaya | or review patches, depending on how you look at it | 14:29 |
| * ajo tightens his seatbelt | 14:29 | |
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| ihrachys | ok, I guess we don't have anyone here to update on the add-port-timestamp spec. let's move on. | 14:29 |
| ihrachys | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/network-ip-usage-api | 14:29 |
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| ihrachys | that's also on kevinbenton | 14:29 |
| ihrachys | the patch is under active review | 14:30 |
| ihrachys | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/212955/ | 14:30 |
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| ihrachys | and I see the right folks shaving it :) | 14:30 |
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| ihrachys | ok, next | 14:30 |
| ajo | yaks gotta be shaved | 14:30 |
| ihrachys | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/improve-dvr-l3-agent-binding | 14:31 |
| ihrachys | carl_baldwin: obondarev: what's on that one? ^ | 14:31 |
| obondarev | implemented | 14:31 |
| obondarev | last patch was merged yesterday | 14:31 |
| obondarev | thanks to reviewers | 14:31 |
| mestery | o/ | 14:31 |
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| amotoki | good to hear that :) | 14:31 |
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| ajo | :) | 14:32 |
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| ihrachys | obondarev: what's the https://review.openstack.org/#/c/143169/ then? | 14:32 |
| mestery | yay! | 14:32 |
| mestery | :) | 14:32 |
| ihrachys | it has the topic referring to the bp | 14:32 |
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| obondarev | ihrachys: it's by mistake I guess | 14:32 |
| obondarev | it was based on dvr refactiring | 14:32 |
| ihrachys | that's great news actually. thanks to reviewers and obondarev for driving it. | 14:33 |
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| haleyb | obondarev: that was re-based on top of yours, so maybe picked up the tag | 14:33 |
| amotoki | obondarev: could you update the topic of 143169? | 14:33 |
| ihrachys | yeah, probably. better clear the topic not to confuse. | 14:33 |
| obondarev | amotoki: sure | 14:33 |
| ihrachys | ok cool. we have stuff delivered woot. | 14:33 |
| ihrachys | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/address-scopes | 14:34 |
| ihrachys | I guess carl_baldwin is not here, but salv-orlando is ;) | 14:34 |
| ihrachys | salv-orlando: are we far for ^ ? | 14:34 |
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| amotoki | the whiteboard is too long.... | 14:35 |
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| salv-orlando | We are at the stage where the patches are good to go in | 14:35 |
| salv-orlando | and I thought they were already in honestly as they fell off my review dashboard | 14:35 |
| ihrachys | salv-orlando: do we have a single topic for all of them? as amotoki noted, the whiteboard is a graveyard | 14:35 |
| haleyb | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bp/address-scopes,n,z shows 3 left, we're pretty close | 14:36 |
| salv-orlando | ihrachys: yes, there is ^ | 14:36 |
| ihrachys | that's an impressive list of patches already merged. I bet you get it in M. :) | 14:36 |
| ihrachys | thanks for everyone driving it | 14:36 |
| salv-orlando | haleyb: that's 4 actually but besides th3 l3 agent support they're all little things | 14:37 |
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| salv-orlando | and on the other hand without the l3 agent support the feature is quite... non-existent ;) | 14:37 |
| ajo | :) | 14:37 |
| haleyb | ah yes, one in merge conflict, the first one is the last big one really | 14:37 |
| haleyb | gerrit seems to not be cooperating to look further | 14:38 |
| ajo | gerrit-- | 14:38 |
| haleyb | it's back | 14:38 |
| ihrachys | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/lbaas-l7-rules | 14:39 |
| ihrachys | I am surprised it's not on dougwig! :) mestery, ^ | 14:39 |
| xgerman | proceeding nicely | 14:39 |
| mestery | :) | 14:39 |
| mestery | ihrachys: For that one, I know that sbalukoff was telling me lovely stories abouti t last week | 14:39 |
| mestery | xgerman likely also knows the tale I speak of | 14:40 |
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| ihrachys | that's a huge list of things to merge though: | 14:40 |
| xgerman | yeah, we have the code - need to review | 14:40 |
| ihrachys | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bp/lbaas-l7-rules,n,z | 14:40 |
| amotoki | I have to comment one thing on l7-rules. it should be implemented as a separate extension | 14:40 |
| xgerman | it is | 14:40 |
| xgerman | as an extension of LBaaS | 14:41 |
| ihrachys | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/148232/42/neutron_lbaas/extensions/l7.py | 14:41 |
| xgerman | you mean top-level? | 14:41 |
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| amotoki | xgerman: let me check later. | 14:41 |
| xgerman | ok | 14:41 |
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| ihrachys | ok, next | 14:41 |
| ihrachys | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/rbac-qos | 14:42 |
| ihrachys | hdaniel posted a new lovely metaclass-y patch for db models and objects for RBAC QoS Policy | 14:42 |
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| ajo | code looks lovely IMHO :) | 14:42 |
| ihrachys | but I suspect it's not enough to land it? is it ajo? | 14:42 |
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| ihrachys | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/250081/ | 14:43 |
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| ajo | ihrachys, I need to do a final pass of review, my initial pass was good | 14:43 |
| ihrachys | ok, but do we have client and API covered? | 14:43 |
| ajo | ihrachys, I'm unsure if API or clients needed changes, let me check, | 14:44 |
| amotoki | note that the client release deadline is earlier than server projects | 14:44 |
| ihrachys | I think so. otherwise how would it know which objects support RBAC? | 14:44 |
| ihrachys | amotoki: oh. any specific date? | 14:44 |
| amotoki | please make sure to land patches before requirement deadline | 14:44 |
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| amotoki | no specific date | 14:45 |
| amotoki | but from past experience it is a bit earilier than X-3 cut. | 14:45 |
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| ihrachys | ajo: I think that may actually postpone the thing to N. we need to get everything in place in time or we slip forward. | 14:45 |
| ihrachys | amotoki: thanks for the heads-up | 14:45 |
| ihrachys | ajo: can you work with hdaniel to get it all set? | 14:46 |
| ajo | ihrachys, , yes, but we even have API tests | 14:46 |
| ajo | so I guess that's all good | 14:46 |
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| ajo | and I think the neutron client is independent, it will just check the object type through the api request | 14:47 |
| ajo | I will double check all that with hdaniel btw | 14:47 |
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| ihrachys | ajo: ok we need to check, especially the client. | 14:47 |
| ihrachys | thanks ajo and hdaniel | 14:47 |
| ihrachys | next is... | 14:47 |
| ajo | I'm quite sure that's right, but will double check | 14:47 |
| amotoki | client support for qos-rbac would be simple, and I have no concern. | 14:47 |
| ihrachys | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/vlan-aware-vms | 14:47 |
| ihrachys | rossella_s: I bet you can update on vlan awareness | 14:48 |
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| ajo | who's aware of vlan awareness? O:) | 14:48 |
| rossella_s | ihrachys, spec was approved | 14:48 |
| rossella_s | ihrachys, it took quite some time | 14:49 |
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| ihrachys | I suspect it's not M deliverable since only the spec is merged and it sounds like it will require a lot of code changes. | 14:49 |
| ihrachys | rossella_s: amirite? | 14:49 |
| rossella_s | ihrachys, I think so too | 14:49 |
| ihrachys | I wonder whether we should start pushing things like that to N without waiting for M3 | 14:49 |
| ihrachys | need to check with armax | 14:50 |
| ihrachys | ok, back to ajo's bp | 14:50 |
| ihrachys | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/vm-without-l3-address | 14:50 |
| ihrachys | ajo: give us some hope :) | 14:50 |
| ajo | yeah :) | 14:51 |
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| ajo | ok, the neutron side looks much better after a rearrangement of the limit-portsec field | 14:51 |
| ajo | It's in merge conflict state, but yalie addressed all my comments so far, I need to check the latest patch | 14:52 |
| ajo | so, the neutron side of things probably will go in M | 14:52 |
| ihrachys | do we have client? | 14:52 |
| ajo | but, the nova side wasn't accepted for this cycle | 14:52 |
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| ajo | yes: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/218388/ | 14:52 |
| ajo | being worked out | 14:53 |
| ihrachys | I guess that -2 from armax is obsolete? | 14:53 |
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| amotoki | if server side patch is good enough from secrutiy point of view, I believe he can drop his -2 | 14:54 |
| ajo | correct, I agree with amotoki | 14:54 |
| ajo | but we need to consider his point of view | 14:54 |
| ihrachys | ok, I will leave you to push for M3 then :) good luck. | 14:55 |
| ihrachys | and... that's about it for bps | 14:55 |
| ihrachys | #topic Open Discussion | 14:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:55 | |
| ihrachys | we have 5 mins only, but if someone has anything to bring up, you are welcome | 14:55 |
| anilvenkata | can someone set milestone for prefix delegation bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1505316 | 14:55 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1505316 in neutron "compute port lose fixed_ips on restart l3-agent if subnet is prefix delegated" [Medium,In progress] - Assigned to venkata anil (anil-venkata) | 14:55 |
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| amotoki | we have now keystone v3 devstack http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-February/085497.html | 14:56 |
| ihrachys | amotoki: v3 only? | 14:56 |
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| ihrachys | anilvenkata: why do we need a specific milestone? it's not a High prio bug, right? | 14:56 |
| ihrachys | (at least not in LP) | 14:56 |
| amotoki | it is ongoing. i see problems in some other projects (not neutron) | 14:56 |
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| amotoki | i don't know the full status on this... | 14:57 |
| anilvenkata | ihrachys: prefix delegation is broken, that patch will fix it | 14:57 |
| jckasper | FYI: As far as the mid-cycle meetup in Rochester, MN. I live there. Any questions on the location ... can contact me offline. | 14:57 |
| ihrachys | anilvenkata: ok, let's raise its Importance then to High I guess | 14:57 |
| anteaya | jckasper: thank you | 14:57 |
| njohnston | ihrachys: Because this now has the 2 dependencies explicitly listed as dependencies, is the DSCP work eligible for lifting the -2? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/251738 | 14:58 |
| amotoki | IIRC now we have keystone v3 by default | 14:58 |
| anilvenkata | ihrachys: thanks Ihar | 14:58 |
| mhickey_ | jckasper: is it as cold as they say?! :) | 14:58 |
| ihrachys | jckasper: you can post your name in the etherpad for the event suggesting help there. | 14:58 |
| anteaya | I have something I would like to share | 14:58 |
| ihrachys | njohnston: it is. I will remove it. | 14:58 |
| njohnston | ihrachys: Thanks! | 14:58 |
| ihrachys | anteaya: shoot | 14:58 |
| anteaya | thank you | 14:58 |
| anteaya | I'm concerned with what I percieve to be the splintering of communication | 14:59 |
| reedip | amotoki : Yes, v3 is by default enabled. | 14:59 |
| anteaya | both within this project and with this project's relationships with other projects | 14:59 |
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| anteaya | I was surprised to see this meeting take place in this time slot | 14:59 |
| anteaya | as well as no mention of items covered in last week's nova mid-cycle | 14:59 |
| amotoki | anteaya: why? | 14:59 |
| ihrachys | anteaya: why? we had it before at that same time right? | 14:59 |
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| anteaya | as well as a new mid-cycle announced for march | 15:00 |
| anteaya | you are welcome to disagree with me | 15:00 |
| amotoki | and we had a good announcement on -dev list | 15:00 |
| ihrachys | anteaya: which March midcycle? | 15:00 |
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| anteaya | but I think neutron is drifting farther and farther away from other projects | 15:00 |
| anteaya | ihrachys: how many march mid-cycles were mentioned at this meeting? | 15:00 |
| ihrachys | anteaya: ok let me bring it up to armax | 15:00 |
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| anteaya | I have voiced my concerns | 15:01 |
| anteaya | thanks for listening | 15:01 |
| ihrachys | anteaya: that's code sprint, it's a bit different in its scope. | 15:01 |
| amotoki | it is not mnid-cycle. it is just code sprint for a specific topic | 15:01 |
| ihrachys | thanks folks! time to end the meeting | 15:01 |
| ihrachys | #endmeeting | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:01 | |
| salv-orlando | aideuuuu | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 2 15:01:21 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2016/networking.2016-02-02-14.01.html | 15:01 |
| xgerman | o/ | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2016/networking.2016-02-02-14.01.txt | 15:01 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2016/networking.2016-02-02-14.01.log.html | 15:01 |
| njohnston | o/ | 15:01 |
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| rossella_s | thanks ihrachys, bye all | 15:01 |
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| diltram | bye all | 15:01 |
| amotoki | thanks ihrachys | 15:01 |
| hichihara | ihrachys: thank you for your leading | 15:01 |
| hichihara | bye | 15:01 |
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| jwarendt | bye | 15:01 |
| hoangcx | thanks! bye | 15:02 |
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| mhickey_ | bye, thanks | 15:02 |
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| ajo | thanks ihrachys !! | 15:02 |
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| phil_h | adam_g: does anyone have any notes about setting up ha, load balancers or pez? | 15:59 |
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| jasondotstar | #startmeeting #openstack-salt | 16:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 2 16:01:24 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jasondotstar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: #openstack-salt)" | 16:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to '_openstack_salt' | 16:01 |
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| jasondotstar | #topic Roll Call | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: #openstack-salt)" | 16:01 | |
| jasondotstar | o/ | 16:01 |
| cznewt | o/ | 16:01 |
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| jasondotstar | hi cznewt :-) | 16:02 |
| jasondotstar | GM | 16:02 |
| jasondotstar | another 60secs | 16:02 |
| cznewt | hello salters | 16:02 |
| jasondotstar | to see who else joins us :-) | 16:02 |
| jasondotstar | salters unite! | 16:03 |
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| jasondotstar | ok.... | 16:03 |
| jasondotstar | #topic Introduction | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Introduction (Meeting topic: #openstack-salt)" | 16:03 | |
| jasondotstar | this is the second irc meeting for the openstack-salt team | 16:03 |
| jasondotstar | If you're interested in contributing to the discussion, please join #openstack-salt | 16:04 |
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| jasondotstar | Meetings are Weekly on Tuesdays at 1600UTC <-now | 16:04 |
| jasondotstar | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/#OpenStack_Salt_Team_Meeting | 16:04 |
| jasondotstar | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/openstack-salt | 16:04 |
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| jasondotstar | #topic Review past action items | 16:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review past action items (Meeting topic: #openstack-salt)" | 16:05 | |
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| jasondotstar | first order of business: | 16:05 |
| jasondotstar | cznewt to finish out the chapter on local dev environment (i.e vagrant) | 16:05 |
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| cznewt | yes, the documentation is now up-to-date, how to provision vagrant | 16:05 |
| jasondotstar | so I think this is completed | 16:05 |
| jasondotstar | thanks cznewt - I'll try this out | 16:06 |
| cznewt | single node deployment, meaning 1 config, 1 control 1 compute node | 16:06 |
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| jasondotstar | do you have that link handy to post here? | 16:06 |
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| * jasondotstar looks | 16:07 | |
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| jasondotstar | #link http://openstack-salt.tcpcloud.eu/develop/quickstart-vagrant.html | 16:07 |
| jasondotstar | any other comments on this? | 16:07 |
| cznewt | Until the official documentation is built use the preceding link | 16:07 |
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| cznewt | thanks, jasondotstar | 16:07 |
| jasondotstar | +1 | 16:07 |
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| cznewt | this is ok, well discuss heat in next topic | 16:08 |
| jasondotstar | cool.. | 16:08 |
| jasondotstar | next: cznewt to report on the completion of the core set of salt formulas | 16:08 |
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| cznewt | the core formulas have been reviewed and all required parts are there | 16:09 |
| jasondotstar | any news here? | 16:09 |
| cznewt | we've added tests | 16:09 |
| jasondotstar | nice | 16:09 |
| cznewt | for the code style and metadata validity | 16:09 |
| jasondotstar | +1 | 16:10 |
| cznewt | we've cought several errors by this mechanism already | 16:10 |
| jasondotstar | one question about the last topic | 16:10 |
| jasondotstar | i just thought about | 16:10 |
| jasondotstar | for the AIO deployment | 16:10 |
| jasondotstar | would it be beneficial to have a aio script to run all the tasks required? | 16:10 |
| jasondotstar | the puppet guys do something similar | 16:11 |
| jasondotstar | ah... | 16:11 |
| cznewt | the question is the other needed formulas are to be included in the openstack as well | 16:11 |
| jasondotstar | i see you have something there already for booting up the salt formulas... | 16:11 |
| genunix | You mean something like Salt orchestrate? Or Fabric in eg. opencontrail case? | 16:11 |
| jasondotstar | salt master i mean | 16:11 |
| cznewt | yes there's a script to bootstrap salt-master from packages or git | 16:11 |
| cznewt | and for AIO deploy it's just matter of highstating the nodes | 16:12 |
| jasondotstar | gotcha. | 16:12 |
| genunix | jasondotstar: basically this - https://github.com/tcpcloud/heat-templates/blob/master/templates/salt_single_public.hot#L120 | 16:12 |
| cznewt | yes | 16:13 |
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| jasondotstar | i haven't looked at the details of this script but | 16:13 |
| cznewt | I've cleaned that up a little but basically that's it | 16:13 |
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| jasondotstar | there's a modular way that the puppet guys do it | 16:13 |
| jasondotstar | you can add remove modules at will. | 16:13 |
| jasondotstar | im wondering if that's implemented here for the salt states... | 16:14 |
| jasondotstar | forgive me if it's there, and i just haven't seen it yet. | 16:14 |
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| cznewt | you mean librarian? | 16:14 |
| jasondotstar | well | 16:14 |
| cznewt | dependencies among modules? | 16:14 |
| cznewt | versions and so on | 16:14 |
| jasondotstar | yes | 16:14 |
| jasondotstar | they've got the Puppetfile | 16:15 |
| jasondotstar | with the list of modules in it | 16:15 |
| cznewt | we had to do this for the testing purpose | 16:15 |
| jasondotstar | tagged with version numbers and such. | 16:15 |
| jasondotstar | ok | 16:15 |
| genunix | jasondotstar: there are nothing like puppetfiles in salt, but we have done this for testing dependencies - https://github.com/openstack/salt-formula-heat/blob/master/metadata.yml | 16:15 |
| jasondotstar | ok | 16:15 |
| jasondotstar | gotcha. | 16:15 |
| cznewt | define the dependencies, but it is not official | 16:15 |
| genunix | jasondotstar: anyway we prefer deployment using debian packages which can handle these things | 16:15 |
| jasondotstar | i see. | 16:15 |
| jasondotstar | makes sense | 16:16 |
| jasondotstar | ok | 16:16 |
| cznewt | but we could propose something like that to the salt community | 16:16 |
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| cznewt | if there's demand | 16:16 |
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| jasondotstar | #agreed Perhaps proposing a dependency tool to the salt community is a good idea based on demand | 16:17 |
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| cznewt | also that's another topic to adress: how to contribute to salt community as well | 16:17 |
| jasondotstar | cznewt: go for it | 16:17 |
| jasondotstar | #topic Contributing to the Salt communit | 16:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Contributing to the Salt communit (Meeting topic: #openstack-salt)" | 16:17 | |
| jasondotstar | #topic Contributing to the Salt community | 16:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Contributing to the Salt community (Meeting topic: #openstack-salt)" | 16:17 | |
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| jasondotstar | i've yet to do that.... thoughts? | 16:18 |
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| cznewt | the testing mechanisms for salt formulas | 16:18 |
| cznewt | the formula dependencies | 16:18 |
| cznewt | these are the things that might be valuable to salt community as well | 16:19 |
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| genunix | we should discuss with salt community some standarized way to do this and possibly help with implementation | 16:19 |
| genunix | maybe the same for debian packaging of formulas which we have already done | 16:19 |
| jasondotstar | +1 | 16:19 |
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| cznewt | the salt-linters out in the wild are outdated and need to be cleaned. | 16:20 |
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| jasondotstar | so upstream from us might be work in the salt project itself | 16:21 |
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| jasondotstar | and where it makes sense we should push those items up there. | 16:21 |
| cznewt | yes i think so | 16:21 |
| genunix | #agreed work with salt community - agree on standard for versioning and satisfying formula dependencies (aka Puppetfile) and for packaging | 16:21 |
| jasondotstar | very well. | 16:22 |
| jasondotstar | any other thoughts on this? | 16:22 |
| cznewt | i think this is aggreed | 16:22 |
| jasondotstar | if not, we'll move on. | 16:22 |
| jasondotstar | cznewt: sounds good. | 16:23 |
| jasondotstar | #topic Today's Agenda | 16:23 |
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| jasondotstar | ok, first: setup core/release teams: | 16:23 |
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| jasondotstar | cznewt, genuing, pupapaik, Jay_Clark, majklkcz anyone else? | 16:24 |
| cznewt | genunix | 16:24 |
| jasondotstar | +1 | 16:24 |
| genunix | +1 | 16:24 |
| cznewt | now nothing block the team creation? | 16:24 |
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| jasondotstar | that was my next question | 16:25 |
| jasondotstar | we need to go back to -infra and make sure you are added, cznewt | 16:25 |
| jasondotstar | if we haven't already | 16:25 |
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| cznewt | yes, I'll after the meeting | 16:25 |
| jasondotstar | good deal. | 16:26 |
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| jasondotstar | next: development guideline | 16:26 |
| jasondotstar | proposal - repositories imported under github.com/openstack | 16:26 |
| cznewt | the repositories are under the openstack nameespace now | 16:26 |
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| jasondotstar | cznewt: ok. how do we keep the github project(s) and the openstack project(s) in sync? | 16:27 |
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| cznewt | and in the openstack git, is the infromation here correct? | 16:27 |
| cznewt | #link http://openstack-salt.tcpcloud.eu/develop/extending-contribute.html | 16:27 |
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| cznewt | github - the tcpcloud namespace - the repos will be removed | 16:28 |
| genunix | jasondotstar: our repos in tcpcloud namespace will be removed so there's no need for sync | 16:28 |
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| jasondotstar | +1 | 16:28 |
| genunix | the question is about building packages | 16:28 |
| cznewt | as they are being added to the openstack | 16:28 |
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| genunix | it's currently done in our Jenkins and uploaded to our PPA | 16:29 |
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| genunix | but I would like to do this in openstack way | 16:29 |
| jasondotstar | that has to be moved over | 16:29 |
| jasondotstar | right | 16:29 |
| genunix | so these packages may reach ubuntu cloud and debian once | 16:29 |
| genunix | but I don't know how it works for openstack packages so this is probably action item to me | 16:29 |
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| genunix | also maybe do some cleanup on packaging, specify dependencies for some formulas, etc. | 16:30 |
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| jasondotstar | #action genunix to research how to openstack packaging works | 16:30 |
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| cznewt | The integration setup of the launchpad needs to be checkedd | 16:31 |
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| jasondotstar | agreed | 16:32 |
| cznewt | I think the openstack access is not well configured there | 16:32 |
| jasondotstar | I can take a look at that one | 16:33 |
| jasondotstar | #action jasondotstar to look at the integration of launchpad with our repos | 16:33 |
| cznewt | jasondotstar: can we go over the complete process of contributing together? I'd like to evangelise further, but i want to certain that i do it right | 16:33 |
| jasondotstar | of course | 16:34 |
| jasondotstar | the contributor guidelines | 16:34 |
| jasondotstar | let's take a quick at that | 16:34 |
| jasondotstar | see if there is any feedback | 16:35 |
| jasondotstar | #link http://openstack-salt.tcpcloud.eu/develop/extending-contribute.html | 16:35 |
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| jasondotstar | (again) | 16:35 |
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| cznewt | yes, I'll do it after the meeting to see how it works from both sides | 16:36 |
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| cznewt | I'd like to | 16:37 |
| jasondotstar | +1 | 16:37 |
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| cznewt | get the heat stack for development of salt stack tested | 16:38 |
| cznewt | and ready | 16:38 |
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| jasondotstar | +1 | 16:38 |
| cznewt | we provide labs for openstack-salt creating to the customers so we can do it to the community as well | 16:38 |
| cznewt | jasondotstar: there'a account for you ready already and it will be open for openstack-salt team members | 16:39 |
| jasondotstar | nice | 16:39 |
| cznewt | yes, the full scale HA deployment lab takes about 20 cores and 60gb of ram | 16:40 |
| cznewt | it's out of scope of vagrant testing :) | 16:40 |
| jasondotstar | hehehe | 16:40 |
| jasondotstar | i think so | 16:40 |
| jasondotstar | unless you've got an entire LAB | 16:40 |
| jasondotstar | however, that might be a point to discuss | 16:40 |
| jasondotstar | perhaps we can get talk to -infra about a dev environment | 16:41 |
| jasondotstar | or have someone sponsor some resources | 16:41 |
| jasondotstar | so that we can fully test HA | 16:41 |
| cznewt | yes, this is for further discussion | 16:41 |
| cznewt | it would be nice to get more sponsors | 16:42 |
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| cznewt | +1 | 16:42 |
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| jasondotstar | #agreed Further research is needed on how we acquire resources for HA testing | 16:42 |
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| jasondotstar | I can ask around | 16:42 |
| jasondotstar | my company *might* have something we can leverage, but don't quote me on that :-) | 16:43 |
| jasondotstar | I've known rackspace to sponsor some lab space IIRC | 16:43 |
| cznewt | Super, the openstack environments are preferrable | 16:43 |
| jasondotstar | +1 | 16:43 |
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| jasondotstar | #action jasondotstar to look into dev environment sponsorship | 16:44 |
| jasondotstar | other items on collaborative efforts.....? | 16:45 |
| cznewt | #action newt test the aio/ha openstack-salt heat setup | 16:45 |
| cznewt | just the salt community involvement | 16:45 |
| jasondotstar | +1 | 16:45 |
| cznewt | it has been already put into action, I think | 16:45 |
| jasondotstar | good deal | 16:45 |
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| jasondotstar | we touched on this, but are we good on building formula packages under openstack? | 16:46 |
| jasondotstar | RHEL needs love | 16:46 |
| jasondotstar | yes? | 16:46 |
| cznewt | we are good for debian, and the packages are not very complicated, just copying around | 16:47 |
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| cznewt | so i think we can provide rhel packages as well in short time | 16:47 |
| jasondotstar | cool. | 16:48 |
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| jasondotstar | oh.... the contributor license | 16:48 |
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| jasondotstar | Apache License, Version 2.0 | 16:49 |
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| jasondotstar | is that the license we're using? | 16:49 |
| jasondotstar | are there comments about that? | 16:50 |
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| cznewt | the formulas use the apache2 all of them | 16:50 |
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| cznewt | and what about the contributor's license, which one applies | 16:50 |
| jasondotstar | #link https://review.openstack.org/static/cla.html | 16:51 |
| cznewt | yes, thank you | 16:52 |
| jasondotstar | i think mainly this means that the code you contribute is originated by you | 16:52 |
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| jasondotstar | once you offer it | 16:52 |
| jasondotstar | it goes under the apache license at that point | 16:52 |
| jasondotstar | IIUC | 16:52 |
| jasondotstar | i can't take closed-source code from IBM, and offer it as a patch | 16:53 |
| jasondotstar | for example. | 16:53 |
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| cznewt | yes i get it even better now :) | 16:53 |
| jasondotstar | so both kinda come into play | 16:53 |
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| jasondotstar | "I offer MY (and I mean MY code - as stated in the Contributor license) code to this project, which is then protected by the Apache License" | 16:55 |
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| jasondotstar | something to that affect | 16:55 |
| jasondotstar | ok we've got 5 mins left | 16:56 |
| jasondotstar | #topic Open Discussion | 16:56 |
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| jasondotstar | no additional comments from me. we've got a few things to look int. | 16:57 |
| cznewt | well i'm out of topics, I'll be here to help you with the install | 16:57 |
| jasondotstar | s/int./into. | 16:57 |
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| cznewt | which ones? | 16:57 |
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| jasondotstar | just the action items | 16:57 |
| jasondotstar | im saying nothing else besides what we've already talked about :-) | 16:57 |
| jasondotstar | oh... summit | 16:58 |
| jasondotstar | you guys going? | 16:58 |
| cznewt | yes, most probably | 16:58 |
| jasondotstar | yep, I'll be there | 16:58 |
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| jasondotstar | we can talk more about that later | 16:58 |
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| cznewt | yes, looking forward to summit :) | 16:59 |
| jasondotstar | cool. if nothing else, i think we can close | 16:59 |
| cznewt | let's continue on #openstack-salt | 16:59 |
| jasondotstar | thx guys | 16:59 |
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| cznewt | thx all | 16:59 |
| jasondotstar | until next week | 16:59 |
| jasondotstar | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 2 17:00:00 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/_openstack_salt/2016/_openstack_salt.2016-02-02-16.01.html | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/_openstack_salt/2016/_openstack_salt.2016-02-02-16.01.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/_openstack_salt/2016/_openstack_salt.2016-02-02-16.01.log.html | 17:00 |
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| gibi | #startmeeting nova notification | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 2 17:00:48 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is gibi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova notification)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_notification' | 17:00 |
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| gibi | hi everyone! | 17:01 |
| rlrossit_ | hi gibi! | 17:01 |
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| gibi | rlrossit_: hi! I'm happy that you found the new place and time as I screwed up the mail on the ML twice. :) | 17:01 |
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| gibi | it seems just two of us today | 17:03 |
| gibi | #topic open reviews | 17:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open reviews (Meeting topic: nova notification)" | 17:03 | |
| gibi | actually we have merged everything that was open! | 17:03 |
| rlrossit_ | woo | 17:03 |
| gibi | :) | 17:03 |
| speller | hi there :) | 17:03 |
| gibi | speller: hi! | 17:03 |
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| gibi | #topic midcycle summary | 17:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "midcycle summary (Meeting topic: nova notification)" | 17:04 | |
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| gibi | so last week we had a fruitfull midcycle in the sunny Bristol | 17:04 |
| gibi | most of the info are collected on https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-nova-midcycle | 17:04 |
| gibi | the notification part is starts at L43 | 17:05 |
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| gibi | I did updated the our todo list etherpad with the outcome https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-versioned-notifications | 17:05 |
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| gibi | I think the biggest result was that we agreed that no new legacy notification is allowed in nova any more | 17:06 |
| rlrossit_ | +1 | 17:06 |
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| gibi | which is now documented in the code-review.rst | 17:07 |
| gibi | one of our task for Mitaka-3 is related to this | 17:07 |
| gibi | we have to find a way to automatically detect if somebody proposing a patch with a new legacy notification | 17:07 |
| rlrossit_ | hacking maybe? | 17:08 |
| rlrossit_ | but that seems hard | 17:08 |
| gibi | hacking and grep is hard as the notifier coming from rpc.get_notifier is passed along in multiple calls and also somethime the get_notifier is wrapped in a partial | 17:09 |
| gibi | another possibility is monkey patching get_notifier in the base test case | 17:09 |
| gibi | but some test mocks get_notifier itself | 17:09 |
| gibi | and it could only catch new notifications if there is a test for it as well | 17:10 |
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| gibi | another way is configure tempest to use the Log driver for notifications and post process logs after tempest | 17:10 |
| gibi | but that is also problematic | 17:10 |
| gibi | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nova-versioned-notifications L51 contains my understanding | 17:11 |
| rlrossit_ | I would like this to get caught in UT, not tempest | 17:11 |
| gibi | rlrossit_: agree | 17:11 |
| gibi | if we mix the mockey patch and the hecking rule solution then we might catch most of the new notifications | 17:12 |
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| gibi | some would be catched by the hacking rule some by the mockey patc | 17:12 |
| gibi | h | 17:12 |
| gibi | and I think we cannot aim for catching everything | 17:13 |
| rlrossit_ | yeah like if they patch get_notifier, use hacking, otherwise trust monkey patch? | 17:13 |
| rlrossit_ | +1. we can't catch everything, or else we would put cores out of their job :) | 17:13 |
| gibi | rlrossit_: something like that, yes | 17:13 |
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| gibi | ahh we need cores for +2 :) | 17:13 |
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| gibi | I think I will looking into this hacking rule + mockey patch tomorrow and put up a patch for it | 17:15 |
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| rlrossit_ | you may want to separate them as 2 patches, though not sure how dependent they'll be | 17:15 |
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| rlrossit_ | wait... won't you need to blacklist existing legacy notifications until we get them changed over? | 17:16 |
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| gibi | rlrossit_: I can split it to two patches sure. I think they are not dependent on each other | 17:17 |
| gibi | rlrossit_: if you have free time we can even split the work :) | 17:17 |
| rlrossit_ | I probably am too busy for the next week or so :( | 17:17 |
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| rlrossit_ | IBM internal whatnot | 17:17 |
| gibi | rlrossit_: no worries I will dig in :) | 17:17 |
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| gibi | rlrossit_: regarding the blacklist, yes we need one until we transform the existing legacy notifications. This list will serve us as a guide what we need to do | 17:19 |
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| gibi | rlrossit_: I might be generate that list into the notification devref as a 'list of legacy notifications' | 17:19 |
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| gibi | anyhow I see the way forward with this which is good :) | 17:22 |
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| gibi | another task possible for Mitaka-3 is moving the notification_format config option from nova.rpc into the config subtree | 17:23 |
| gibi | but that is an easy piece | 17:23 |
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| gibi | for Newton I will put up a new spec to transform instance.update and api_ | 17:24 |
| gibi | ... and api_fault | 17:25 |
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| gibi | we agreed that no spec is needed for the transformation of the other legacy notifications so that will be an ongoing work after these two | 17:25 |
| rlrossit_ | So it will be like mitaka-objects, where it's just a big umbrella of changing? | 17:26 |
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| gibi | rlrossit_: yes, I imagine so | 17:26 |
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| gibi | we also agreed that we will provide a jsonschema for the notification payload, that will be a separate spec for Newton | 17:28 |
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| gibi | I mean schema per payload type | 17:28 |
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| gibi | I think that was all from the midcycle | 17:30 |
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| gibi | #topic open discussion | 17:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: nova notification)" | 17:31 | |
| gibi | anything else to discuss? | 17:32 |
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| rlrossit_ | nope | 17:32 |
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| gibi | thank thanks for joining. next meeting will be held two weeks from now according to the new schedule | 17:33 |
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| gibi | #endmeeting | 17:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:34 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 2 17:34:31 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:34 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_notification/2016/nova_notification.2016-02-02-17.00.html | 17:34 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_notification/2016/nova_notification.2016-02-02-17.00.txt | 17:34 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_notification/2016/nova_notification.2016-02-02-17.00.log.html | 17:34 |
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| stevemar | courtesy ping: ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, ericksonsantos, geoffarnold, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, joesavak, lbragstad, lhcheng, marekd, morganfainberg, nkinder, raildo, rodrigods, roxanaghe, samueldmq, shaleh, stevemar, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong, claudiub, rderose, samleon, xek, MaxPC, tjcocozz | 17:59 |
| lbragstad | stevemar o/ | 17:59 |
| dolphm | \o/ | 17:59 |
| htruta | \o | 17:59 |
| raildo | o/ | 17:59 |
| tjcocozz | o/ | 17:59 |
| samueldmq | \o/ | 18:00 |
| amakarov | o/ | 18:00 |
| ayoung | stevemar, ping pong ping pong | 18:00 |
| * notmorgan doesn't claim to be here | 18:00 | |
| stevemar | o/ | 18:00 |
| tsymanczyk | \o | 18:00 |
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| dstanek | hi | 18:00 |
| ayoung | notmorgan claims to be not here | 18:00 |
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| rderose | yo | 18:00 |
| keedya | hello | 18:00 |
| rodrigods | o/ | 18:00 |
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| bknudson | hi | 18:00 |
| keedya | \o/ | 18:00 |
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| MaxPC | o/ | 18:01 |
| stevemar | #startmeeting keystone | 18:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 2 18:01:20 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is stevemar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:01 |
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| stevemar | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting#Main_Agenda | 18:01 |
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| stevemar | light-ish agenda today | 18:01 |
| stevemar | #topic DocImpact | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "DocImpact (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:01 | |
| marekd | o/ | 18:02 |
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| stevemar | there's going to be a change in the way docImpact works now | 18:02 |
| notmorgan | oh good i wont ever use it now >.> | 18:02 |
| notmorgan | oh wait... | 18:02 |
| stevemar | we'll be opening bugs against the keystone project, not the docs team | 18:02 |
| notmorgan | j/k | 18:02 |
| lbragstad | \o/ | 18:02 |
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| ayoung | will we be responsible for the docs repo? | 18:02 |
| notmorgan | stevemar: does it auto tag the bug as "Doc"? | 18:03 |
| bknudson | are we supposed to clean it up and reassign it to docs? | 18:03 |
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| notmorgan | stevemar: because if it just randomly create doc bugs, i think they'll get lost-ish | 18:03 |
| henrynash | (hi) | 18:03 |
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| stevemar | i figured there were going to be a bunch of questions, i dont have the answers, but i can forward to lana | 18:03 |
| notmorgan | bknudson: no we're supposed to do the documentation i think or verify... it | 18:03 |
| notmorgan | but to be fair, i don't see a benefit for a docimpact bug. | 18:03 |
| notmorgan | never did see the benefit | 18:03 |
| bknudson | yes, who needs accurate docs. | 18:04 |
| stevemar | notmorgan: bknudson i think the plan is have them auto tagged with 'docs' | 18:04 |
| stevemar | or doc | 18:04 |
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| ayoung | bknudson, just buy the O'Reilly book | 18:04 |
| notmorgan | bknudson: opening a random bug that says "hey this is a docimpact" vs before merging require the docs to be written | 18:04 |
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| stevemar | notmorgan: which is what we've been doing | 18:04 |
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| bknudson | I could write my own orieilly book to cash in on the lack of community involvement in docs. | 18:04 |
| notmorgan | bknudson: if the bug was in a team not keystone, it made sense, but this seems like it's pointless. | 18:05 |
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| notmorgan | anyway, just my $0.02, if we already enforce docs written, the DocImpact flag is fine... but i wouldn't wnat it to open a bug | 18:05 |
| stevemar | notmorgan: plus, we've been enforcing reno now, which is nice | 18:05 |
| notmorgan | i can see the flag as useful to look at the log and see what was doc impacting. but anyway... i've voiced my opinion | 18:06 |
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| ayoung | notmorgan, so, I could see there being a benefit if the workflow was something like this: | 18:06 |
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| ayoung | 1. Docimpact, assign bug to origianly developer | 18:06 |
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| ayoung | 2. Dev fills in the necessary info into the bug and assignes to the doc team to integrate in the right place | 18:07 |
| stevemar | i think the only question is the identity upgrade and install bits that are owned by the docs team | 18:07 |
| notmorgan | ayoung: i don't think anything goes to the doc team here. | 18:07 |
| ayoung | lets try it for a while and see what happens. I've never built the docs myself. | 18:07 |
| topol | o/ | 18:07 |
| ayoung | maybe we'll like it. We seem to enjoy writing anyway | 18:07 |
| bknudson | I think at the last summit (or maybe last 2 summits) the docs team was saying they'd like to move the docs to the dev teams. | 18:07 |
| notmorgan | bknudson: right. | 18:07 |
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| bknudson | But I haven't heard that that's happened | 18:08 |
| notmorgan | bknudson: hence the reason i don't see a benefit for a bug to be opened. but *shrug* | 18:08 |
| notmorgan | bknudson: and if the bug is opened and the docs team still owns it all, i don't see a win for us to have bugs against keystone. | 18:08 |
| stevemar | notmorgan: i think it's just a way to migrate for folks that were using the tag in the first place | 18:08 |
| samueldmq | bknudson: what docs ? api-ref ? | 18:08 |
| notmorgan | stevemar: anyway my $0.02 of input | 18:09 |
| bknudson | samueldmq: all the docs -- admin guide, user guide, config guide, install guide, ... whatever else we have | 18:09 |
| stevemar | yep | 18:09 |
| notmorgan | once it's all over to us i'd like to revisit disabling the "auto open a bug against keystone". | 18:09 |
| samueldmq | bknudson: got it | 18:09 |
| notmorgan | and just make sure we have docs when we merge the stuff. | 18:09 |
| henrynash | (has always thought we should be writing our docs anyway, but hey….) | 18:09 |
| ayoung | Where are our docs anyway? | 18:09 |
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| notmorgan | ayoung: almost 100% in our repo atm | 18:10 |
| stevemar | henrynash: your wish is now coming true | 18:10 |
| notmorgan | just not the admin/upgrade guides | 18:10 |
| ayoung | notmorgan, openstack/keystone/docs | 18:10 |
| lbragstad | fwiw the thing i like about have docs owned by a separate team is that it ends up being more consistent across projects | 18:10 |
| notmorgan | ayoung: yeah. | 18:10 |
| bknudson | http://docs.openstack.org/ | 18:10 |
| henrynash | (oh yes, I remember the saying now: be careful for what you wish for….) | 18:10 |
| ayoung | repo? | 18:10 |
| notmorgan | ayoung: in the main keystone repo. | 18:10 |
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| notmorgan | and specs repo for the cannonical specification [as you know] | 18:10 |
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| henrynash | lbragstad: I think that’s a good point…I’ve also though that sperate team should craete the style, order etc….but not the content | 18:11 |
| stevemar | ayoung: tox -e docs! | 18:11 |
| notmorgan | lbragstad: i think we'll see a drastic reduction in doc consistency and quality, but i know the doc team doesn't scale | 18:11 |
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| ayoung | http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/openstack-manuals/ | 18:11 |
| notmorgan | ayoung: that is all being shuffled around afaik | 18:11 |
| ayoung | http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/openstack-manuals/tree/doc/install-guide/source/keystone.rst | 18:11 |
| notmorgan | ayoung: so, let steve ask lana | 18:11 |
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| ayoung | ++ | 18:11 |
| lbragstad | notmorgan agreed - but from an u-x perspective, it's nice to see the consistency when referencing docs from different projects | 18:11 |
| ayoung | put a follow up item for next weeks meeting...next topic? | 18:12 |
| stevemar | yep | 18:12 |
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| stevemar | #topic ISO27001 Compliance | 18:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ISO27001 Compliance (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:12 | |
| stevemar | ayoung: g'head | 18:12 |
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| bknudson | I can't afford access to ISO standards | 18:12 |
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| ayoung | OK...so, do we need to comply ? | 18:13 |
| notmorgan | bknudson: lol | 18:13 |
| notmorgan | ayoung: long term, yes | 18:13 |
| ayoung | And is there any way to avoid it | 18:13 |
| dstanek | bknudson: me either | 18:13 |
| ayoung | I think I agree | 18:13 |
| notmorgan | ayoung: but this will follow into the HIPPA/PCI-DSS type convos | 18:13 |
| ayoung | I think we need to have a set of requirements for the SQL backend, because you cannot deploy without them | 18:13 |
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| notmorgan | which i'm headed to Seattle to start collecting info on thursday. | 18:13 |
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| ayoung | there will always be service users in the SQL backend, and I think a best p[ractice there is to try and not do password for those users | 18:14 |
| notmorgan | it's all similar vein and requires concerted effort to move that way/document/etc | 18:14 |
| bknudson | why can't service users go in the LDAP backend? | 18:14 |
| dstanek | notmorgan: PCI stuff Thursday? | 18:14 |
| ayoung | the use case, though, that I think clinches it is Public Cloud Customers | 18:14 |
| ayoung | bknudson, for some cases, you don't have write access | 18:14 |
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| notmorgan | dstanek: going to talk w/ bluebox on what they're doing | 18:14 |
| ayoung | bknudson, but they could go in a deployment specific LDAP | 18:14 |
| notmorgan | dstanek: and what they've had to change / are changing to meet the requirements | 18:14 |
| dstanek | notmorgan: nice, i can't wait to hear | 18:15 |
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| ayoung | so, could we do a deployment with all users in LDAP, only if we don't care about adding new customers, I think | 18:15 |
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| ayoung | so, let me throw this in the Lap of the RAX folks: how do you need this to look? | 18:15 |
| dolphm | bknudson: many enterprises are not willing / able to let you touch their LDAP server just to deploy openstack | 18:15 |
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| ayoung | My assumption has been that provisioning on new customers is done through a systemn outside OPenStack. | 18:16 |
| ayoung | dolphm, so, two distinct things. You are right about Corporate LDAP, but if a place need compliance today, they could run a separate LDAP server (with compliance guaranteees) just for service users | 18:16 |
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| ayoung | YOu could, in theory, run OpenStack with no users in SQL at all. | 18:17 |
| bknudson | lazy customers are king, I guess. | 18:17 |
| ayoung | but that avoids a real use case: how do I add customers to my cloud? | 18:17 |
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| bknudson | if somebody signs up to do the work then let's go ahead. | 18:17 |
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| ayoung | bknudson, well, I am more asking from a "it was proposed and Adam kneecapped it. Was Adam right?" | 18:17 |
| ayoung | perspective | 18:18 |
| bknudson | I think you are right, doesn't mean we can't support it now. | 18:18 |
| ayoung | what I am saying is, I think I am not longer opposing compliance in the SQL backend, provided we can show it is required.... | 18:18 |
| bknudson | just for fun | 18:18 |
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| ayoung | gyee is not here, this was his issue. Lets move on. | 18:19 |
| bknudson | I also agree. We tried pushing onto ldap / saml but that didn't work. | 18:19 |
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| henrynash | ayoung: ++ agreed, I think we look at the requirements…if it is needed to hel to continue accelerating momentum of OpenStack, we shoudl do it…..it is perspiration, not inspiration to do this | 18:19 |
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| bknudson | who's signing up to do the work? | 18:19 |
| stevemar | adding users to a sql backend, in the same of a public cloud, doesn't seem outrageous | 18:19 |
| dstanek | what has to be done to support it? | 18:19 |
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| ayoung | stevemar, the thing is, the user abstraction in Keystone does not seem to be sufficient for an actual user database | 18:20 |
| bknudson | since nobody can afford the standard it's tough to tell. | 18:20 |
| ayoung | There is no contact info ,etc | 18:20 |
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| dolphm | dstanek: ++ is there a spec that outlines the impact on / proposed changes to keystone? | 18:20 |
| ayoung | bknudson, forget the actual standard, I'm also referring to the request for passwrod rotation etc | 18:20 |
| marekd | dolphm: true, at cern our ldap is a single source of truth about users, shared accross many services. our cloud is just one of many. | 18:21 |
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| dstanek | i like the SQL backend and don't want it to become a forgotten step child | 18:21 |
| ayoung | marekd, and you do not add new users via Horizon | 18:21 |
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| marekd | ayoung: not really | 18:22 |
| stevemar | dstanek: a lot of people like the sql backend, and i think would just like to see more capability in it | 18:22 |
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| dstanek | ayoung: most of the password "features" are trivial to implement and maintain | 18:22 |
| ayoung | dstanek, So I think that it has the potnetial to be "used because it is there" which is not a great option | 18:22 |
| notmorgan | so i have a real case I was asked about | 18:22 |
| notmorgan | domain admin in SSO / IDP | 18:22 |
| dstanek | i wrote many of them in 2014 :( | 18:22 |
| notmorgan | each user for the domain after that is SQL based | 18:22 |
| marekd | ayoung: users will have projects created given they are in a specific e-group but it requires manual interaction (somebody validating request and running the script) | 18:22 |
| ayoung | dstanek, do you guys need that? | 18:23 |
| * lbragstad thanks dstanek | 18:23 | |
| stevemar | dstanek: restore patch | 18:23 |
| bknudson | is this for M? We could probably get it done. | 18:23 |
| bknudson | if dstanek has the code all ready | 18:23 |
| dstanek | stevemar: sure. was planning on doing that on to of rderose's work | 18:23 |
| notmorgan | dstanek: how does this play witht he shadowusers | 18:23 |
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| stevemar | notmorgan: looks like dstanek has already thought about that :) | 18:24 |
| dstanek | bknudson: lots of rut, but should not be terrible to revive | 18:24 |
| notmorgan | hehe | 18:24 |
| ayoung | I'm less worried about the complexity of the Password code than giving the wrong impression. I think a lot of people use SQL because they think they are supposed to, and then have this silo of identity. My real question is whether there is a must have use case for SQL Identity, and, if so, what are the requiremetns | 18:24 |
| lbragstad | dstanek https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:abandoned+project:openstack/keystone+branch:master+topic:bp/password-rotation | 18:24 |
| henrynash | ayoung: I’m not so sure they use it because they think they are supposed to…. | 18:25 |
| stevemar | ayoung: if we run a public cloud, and have customers that aren't huge enterprises, how do they sign up? | 18:25 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: there are a few other patches too that i showed Ron at the Midcycle | 18:25 |
| bknudson | Identities as a Service | 18:25 |
| ayoung | stevemar, and that is the $1000000 question | 18:25 |
| henrynash | ayoung: if they have a corpaorate directory already, they’ll use that | 18:25 |
| ayoung | because you can't bill from Horizon | 18:25 |
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| lbragstad | dstanek gotcha - those seemed to be the ones with a common topic | 18:25 |
| henrynash | ayoung: if they don’t, then they’ll use SQL | 18:25 |
| ayoung | henrynash, and yes to that, too | 18:25 |
| dstanek | public cloud seems to be the use case | 18:26 |
| henrynash | ayoung: setting up LDAP is hard compared to our SQL backend | 18:26 |
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| stevemar | ayoung: they don't want to federate, and they dont have an ldap handy... sql is the only option | 18:26 |
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| henrynash | ayoung: there are a lot more sql admins than there are LDAP admins in enterproses | 18:27 |
| bknudson | there will be bugs and they'll probably be security vulnerabilities, but whatever. | 18:27 |
| ayoung | stevemar, we show how to do LDAP with devstack. THat is not a real barrier to acceptance | 18:27 |
| notmorgan | and SQL is already needed for most of openstack | 18:27 |
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| notmorgan | and keystone | 18:27 |
| notmorgan | so, it's a tech they have the resources to maintain internally | 18:27 |
| notmorgan | and consume | 18:27 |
| ayoung | henrynash, but the SQL admins know nothing about passwords or compliance ,either\ | 18:27 |
| notmorgan | adding LDAP or SSO is often harder. | 18:27 |
| bknudson | seems like any org already has a way to do identities | 18:27 |
| bknudson | can I just create users with POST /v3/users on rackspace? | 18:27 |
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| notmorgan | but public cloud tends to be the main driving use-case | 18:27 |
| dolphm | bknudson: yes | 18:28 |
| henrynash | ayoung: no….but they are comforatble running and maintaining an SQL server…and backing it up, restoring it when disaster strikes etc. | 18:28 |
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| ayoung | My position thus far has been SQL for Proof of concept, LDAP for enterprise deployments | 18:28 |
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| stevemar | keystone now has three difficulty levels, easy:sql, medium:ldap and hard:sso | 18:28 |
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| ayoung | now, with Writable LDAP gone, we have no story for secure creation of new identities | 18:28 |
| notmorgan | stevemar: med-hard, multi-ldap with SQL | 18:28 |
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| stevemar | hehe | 18:28 |
| henrynash | notmorgan: :-) | 18:28 |
| stevemar | ayoung: i think public cloud has a use case here | 18:29 |
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| ayoung | stevemar, I suspect that it is the case, but I also suspect that, if you push at it, they are really using a more complex customer management system | 18:29 |
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| notmorgan | this is mostly a public cloud use case... or an org that uses cloud-local users except for domain admin | 18:29 |
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| notmorgan | where domain-admin is locked down to things like LDAP or SSO | 18:29 |
| dolphm | and isolated private clouds | 18:29 |
| stevemar | ayoung: like a different ldap? | 18:29 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: this is basically what domain-specific backends support in a context of public cloud | 18:30 |
| ayoung | stevemar, there are CRM apps out there, Some LDAP, some SQL | 18:30 |
| ayoung | some opensource, and many, I suspect, custom | 18:30 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: you can attach an LDAP server if you have one, or just share SQL if you don't have anything | 18:30 |
| henrynash | samueldmq: yep | 18:30 |
| ayoung | CRM= Customer Relationship Management | 18:30 |
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| bknudson | ok... does anyone think we must not improve the identity SQL backend to support stronger passwords/etc.? | 18:31 |
| ayoung | My unstated assumption thus far is CRM is another WebSSO integration | 18:31 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: maybe we should allow mapping SQL backends (vc only LDAP backends ) ? | 18:31 |
| bknudson | It would be nice if there was a spec saying all that was being added. | 18:31 |
| ayoung | bknudson, I'm still not sold | 18:31 |
| notmorgan | bknudson: there was a spec | 18:31 |
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| stevemar | bknudson: dolph has a spec up | 18:31 |
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| notmorgan | bknudson: "make SQL a full Identity manager" or some such | 18:31 |
| lbragstad | bknudson wouldn't that fall under the pci-dss spec? | 18:31 |
| ayoung | so, in that spec, please justify Why the SQL backend needs to be improved | 18:31 |
| notmorgan | was abanded a while ago...or something | 18:31 |
| dolphm | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/272396/2/specs/newton/pci-dss.rst | 18:31 |
| samueldmq | why not allowing mapping SQL backends (for domain-specific backends) as we do for LDAP ? | 18:31 |
| ayoung | because I need to that to turn around and explain it to my org, which is very Enterprise Focused | 18:31 |
| samueldmq | ayoung: ^ | 18:32 |
| henrynash | samueldmq: I’d love to support mapping multiple SQL backends, but our current sqlamlchemy support doesn’t support it (last time I checked) | 18:32 |
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| samueldmq | henrynash: I think that should be doable | 18:32 |
| ayoung | henrynash, I bet we can make that happen | 18:32 |
| notmorgan | henrynash: i have some improvements around that i plan on working on shortly | 18:32 |
| dolphm | henrynash: true | 18:32 |
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| henrynash | ayoung, samueldmq: me too….and I think we should try and do that | 18:32 |
| ayoung | OK...lets move on to policy | 18:32 |
| stevemar | ayoung: send your org this link: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/272396/2/specs/newton/pci-dss.rst | 18:32 |
| notmorgan | henrynash: it's all based around moving to the new-sql-[non-old-style] facades | 18:32 |
| stevemar | #topic Policy and RBAC | 18:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Policy and RBAC (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:32 | |
| stevemar | ayoung is on a tear today! | 18:33 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: ayoung: yes and if we get it, no need to make our sql schema more powerful right ? | 18:33 |
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| stevemar | typing up a storm | 18:33 |
| samueldmq | we provide the basics and if you want more power, make your own and map it to keystone | 18:33 |
| ayoung | OK...so, jamielennox and dolphm have been moving the discussion along on a standard set of roles | 18:33 |
| stevemar | i need to make a tally for all the times we've talked about policy in keystone meetings :) | 18:33 |
| ayoung | please read the X proj spec, | 18:33 |
| notmorgan | stevemar: every meeting always | 18:34 |
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| samueldmq | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/245629 | 18:34 |
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| samueldmq | the spec in X proj ^ | 18:34 |
| ayoung | Thanks | 18:34 |
| ayoung | so...I want to talk about the ramifications of this and the is_admin_project change | 18:34 |
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| dolphm | and then i threw together an example to show the impact on keystone's policy, which needs some work: | 18:35 |
| dolphm | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/274168/ | 18:35 |
| ayoung | I tried adding an is_admin_project check to cloudsample, no problem | 18:35 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, thanks. | 18:35 |
| henrynash | ayoung: yep, and it works…I added tests to show that it does (test_v3_protection) | 18:35 |
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| ayoung | and you can see that our unit tests will need tsome massaging to accept dolph's changes | 18:36 |
| ayoung | henrynash, so the question is, what do we do about default policy | 18:36 |
| ayoung | and samueldmq had an ideaa..... | 18:36 |
| henrynash | (drum roll) | 18:36 |
| samueldmq | move scope checks to the code | 18:36 |
| samueldmq | and only leave role checks in the policy, i.e true RBAC there | 18:36 |
| stevemar | (readies the gong for the big finale) | 18:36 |
| henrynash | samueldmq: ok, so can you be more explicit…. | 18:37 |
| samueldmq | hehe | 18:37 |
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| ayoung | So, this will work for Keystone, because in the code we can read the keystone config | 18:37 |
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| ayoung | so we could check in code to see if admin_porjecr_id is even set | 18:37 |
| ayoung | but this won't work for, say, Nova or Glance | 18:37 |
| ayoung | and for that... | 18:37 |
| henrynash | samuedlmq, ayoung: I still want some more clarity on this…even for keystone | 18:37 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: project_id:%(project_id)s is removed from policies, they will live in the code, when a request arrives, always check scope | 18:37 |
| ayoung | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/242852/ | 18:37 |
| ayoung | henrynash, agreed, but I think the short is that is clarification, but all the options are technically feasable | 18:38 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: if you need global, use project_admin option ayoung implemented | 18:38 |
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| ayoung | so thingee just pinggedmee with a request to be at the X proj meeting abouit that | 18:38 |
| henrynash | samuedlmq, ayoung: so how does a policy line like: rule:cloud_adomin or (role:xyz and project_id:%(project_id)s) work in this new arrangemnt? | 18:38 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, so, lets define cloud_admin first | 18:39 |
| ayoung | I think that is | 18:39 |
| ayoung | role:admin and proejct_id=admin_project_id right? | 18:39 |
| henrynash | ayong: ok | 18:39 |
| ayoung | so we would be checking a separate role based on the scope of the token? | 18:39 |
| bknudson | the last comment on the spec from dhellmann indicated he expected to have a global administrator | 18:39 |
| samueldmq | if we want global admin, use admin_project | 18:40 |
| ayoung | henrynash, yeah, global admin is kindof a firm requirement | 18:40 |
| ayoung | I've been told that a few times | 18:40 |
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| henrynash | ayoung: but the scope might be different in the different clauses of the poliy line….matched to a different role | 18:40 |
| ayoung | right.. | 18:40 |
| dolphm | i wish we had named it root | 18:40 |
| henrynash | ayoung: I don’t understand how we do that in code and not lose flexibility | 18:40 |
| ayoung | henrynash, How about this | 18:40 |
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| stevemar | dolphm: then you've have people asking for a sudo command | 18:40 |
| ayoung | we perform the role check only on the proejct specific | 18:40 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: define something like global_roles=[], those ignore scope checks ? | 18:40 |
| dolphm | stevemar: fine by me | 18:41 |
| notmorgan | dolphm: hehe | 18:41 |
| ayoung | when we get to the scope check, we can say "don't care if the role check failed" and then make that check both is_admin+_proejct and role | 18:41 |
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| ayoung | role:admin | 18:41 |
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| ayoung | actually, the scope check could also accept and "is_cloud_admin" param set earlier, and we could do the whole cloud_admin check in the role layer | 18:42 |
| ayoung | that probably makes more sense | 18:42 |
| henrynash | samuedlmq, ayoung: and this makes it all easier? | 18:42 |
| ayoung | henrynash, it makes it easier to customiZE AND TO SCALE | 18:42 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: I think this makes our policy more consistent with what others do (eg nova) | 18:42 |
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| henrynash | (remains unconvinced until sees examples of v3cloudsample, not our niddy policy.json) | 18:43 |
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| samueldmq | henrynash: and is a necessary step towards policy | 18:43 |
| ayoung | henrynash, we 've coded what "cloud_admin" means in the policy file, but that has to be run after the database call to fetch objects. I'd like the role check to preceed that, and be customizable by end deployers | 18:43 |
| ayoung | so cloud_admin could be soemthing that we check in the role, still, and we then just need to let the scope check have enough information to process either with or without cloud admin | 18:44 |
| bknudson | if you could put names in the policy file you wouldn't need to update cloud_admin. | 18:44 |
| ayoung | bknudson, what kind of names? | 18:44 |
| ayoung | usenames? | 18:44 |
| ayoung | user | 18:45 |
| henrynash | ayoung, samueldmq: you guys probably have this all thought out, but I’m not sure we even agree on the nomenclature in the things you are describing | 18:45 |
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| stevemar | henrynash: ++ | 18:45 |
| bknudson | cloud_admin uses admin_domain_id -- so domain name | 18:45 |
| ayoung | henrynash, so...I think we can duplicate the cloud_admin check in the role check and scope check and it will work. | 18:45 |
| ayoung | bknudson, yeah, that was henrynash ' | 18:45 |
| henrynash | what’s a role check? what’s a scope check? | 18:45 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: btw I thought we didn't want cloud_admins to be able to touch a given project without rescoping right ? | 18:45 |
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| ayoung | s origianl approach | 18:45 |
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| ayoung | and that still works | 18:45 |
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| ayoung | but people have asked us not to force them to edit upon deployment | 18:46 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: only the global admin which is available using the admin_project should be enough, shouldn't it ? | 18:46 |
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| ayoung | so we need 1) backwards compatible, 2)non editing 3)secure | 18:46 |
| bknudson | if you're doing more than 1 deployment then automate it. | 18:46 |
| ayoung | henrynash, I think for startes we duplicate the check | 18:46 |
| ayoung | so, for, say, compute:create_server | 18:46 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: role check is 'role:service', scope check is 'project_id:%(project_id)s' | 18:47 |
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| ayoung | the role check would be role:compute_server_write or rule:cloud_admin | 18:47 |
| ayoung | and the scope check would be | 18:47 |
| ayoung | project_id:server.project_id or rule:cloud_admin | 18:47 |
| samueldmq | yes, and in nova the check is in the code | 18:47 |
| ayoung | if we can find a way to make that clean.... | 18:47 |
| lbragstad | 12 minute warning | 18:48 |
| samueldmq | deployers can only change the role part of the check, which is in the policy | 18:48 |
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| ayoung | the scope checks are likely to move into the code, as samueldmq suggested,. The Nova team is already moving this way | 18:48 |
| stevemar | thanks lbragstad | 18:48 |
| samueldmq | ayoung: I think they've been always this way | 18:48 |
| stevemar | gotta cut this one off in 2 | 18:48 |
| henrynash | ayoung: still don’t see how this works for complex ploicy rules where more than one role check is involved and needs to be matched top a specific scope check | 18:48 |
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| henrynash | ayoung: we need a real spec, with real reasons of why to do this, and explaining how we are not losing the flexibility we give deployers today | 18:49 |
| samueldmq | perhaps ayoung and I should work more with henrynashon this and come back next week | 18:49 |
| samueldmq | as we're running out of time | 18:49 |
| stevemar | probably | 18:49 |
| samueldmq | and we still have another topic to cover | 18:49 |
| stevemar | lets switch gears to devstack | 18:49 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: ++ | 18:49 |
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| stevemar | #topic Devstack, identity v3, and breaking the world | 18:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Devstack, identity v3, and breaking the world (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:50 | |
| henrynash | samueldmq, ayoung: happy to | 18:50 |
| samueldmq | ++ | 18:50 |
| stevemar | so, we broke a lot of things on friday | 18:50 |
| ayoung | henrynash, I can write that up. I only know realized the solution was to duplicate the admin override check at both layers, and I need to think through the ramifications | 18:50 |
| stevemar | sdague covered it here: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-February/085497.html | 18:50 |
| bknudson | I like the responses in the email that said "tough" | 18:50 |
| henrynash | ayoung: ok | 18:50 |
| stevemar | bknudson: yeah, gordc was representing :] | 18:50 |
| ayoung | one last thing: please approve the Implied Role Spec | 18:51 |
| ayoung | OK, I'm done | 18:51 |
| stevemar | ayoung: thanks | 18:51 |
| bknudson | I guess it's difficult to write scripts that work with v2 and v3. | 18:51 |
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| bknudson | since apparently things broke when the v3 change was reverted. | 18:51 |
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| notmorgan | bknudson: almost all was clients [aka novaclient] and things that use tempestlib | 18:51 |
| stevemar | bknudson: yeah - i was wondering / hoping, folks had any bright ideas on how we could make sure this doesn't happen again | 18:51 |
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| stevemar | i created an etherpad to jot down ideas: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/v3-only-devstack | 18:52 |
| bknudson | if we never change anything it'll never happen again. | 18:52 |
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| htruta | doesn't a try v3, fail and fallback to v2 make sense? | 18:52 |
| dolphm | so, let's require v3 every friday in the gate until people adapt? | 18:52 |
| notmorgan | basically we need to make changes (use http://codesearch.openstack.org/ ) to fix the issues | 18:52 |
| raildo | the first problem is that the tempest tests doesn't covered that behavior | 18:52 |
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| notmorgan | and set a date where we flip over, knowing we'll have fallout/cleanup | 18:52 |
| stevemar | bknudson: oh we'll keep that as a backup idea | 18:52 |
| ayoung | before that change (and after the revert) do we even produce a V3 rc file? | 18:52 |
| stevemar | ayoung: yep | 18:52 |
| stevemar | we do so now | 18:52 |
| htruta | ayoung: we did | 18:53 |
| htruta | in the reverted change | 18:53 |
| bknudson | devstack creates a cloud.yaml file | 18:53 |
| bknudson | with different clouds -- one of them is v3 | 18:53 |
| notmorgan | almost everything that broke is stuff not on KSA or things that encode bad habits directly | 18:53 |
| notmorgan | if we set a date for change over [early N?] | 18:53 |
| bknudson | should be --os-cloud devstack-admin-v3 | 18:53 |
| notmorgan | knowing we will break things, and will do clenaup | 18:53 |
| notmorgan | i think that is correct | 18:53 |
| notmorgan | and we do our best to cleanup the last things between now and then | 18:54 |
| notmorgan | coordinate with sdague and mtreinish on that front. | 18:54 |
| stevemar | we should try and fix all the projects now so the switch over in early N is less kablamo | 18:54 |
| ayoung | So, what was the actual change made? | 18:54 |
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| ayoung | cloud.yaml is like, newish | 18:54 |
| notmorgan | ayoung: devstack defaulting to v3. | 18:54 |
| notmorgan | there are a number of things not using OCC/KSA | 18:54 |
| stevemar | ayoung: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/271508/ | 18:54 |
| notmorgan | getting everyone off ksc.session will be a big win | 18:55 |
| stevemar | notmorgan: how is the migration to ksa going for all the projects? | 18:55 |
| htruta | notmorgan: ++ | 18:55 |
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| notmorgan | getting the clients to use OCC/KSA for constructing is the other hurdle | 18:55 |
| stevemar | i think some folks were interested in helping out? | 18:55 |
| notmorgan | so. nova is on KSA, neutron is on ksa, | 18:55 |
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| htruta | stevemar: I've senn magnum, for example, and it has a bug saying that it should use ksa | 18:55 |
| htruta | seen* | 18:55 |
| notmorgan | htruta: assume the projects can't/wont do that change | 18:56 |
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| notmorgan | because largely they don't have the bandwidth or time to ramp up on the internals to know how to make the change over non-painful | 18:56 |
| stevemar | htruta: yeah, the other projects may not have the knowledge to do the change, we may have to do it for them | 18:56 |
| notmorgan | http://codesearch.openstack.org/?q=from%20keystoneclient%20import%20session&i=nope&files=&repos= | 18:56 |
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| notmorgan | that is everything using keystoneclient.session | 18:56 |
| notmorgan | #link http://codesearch.openstack.org/?q=from%20keystoneclient%20import%20session&i=nope&files=&repos= | 18:56 |
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| bknudson | this is all pretty ridiculous -- why do you need to specify the version. | 18:57 |
| htruta | stevemar, can't we teach them too? Some blog post or stuff like that | 18:57 |
| raildo | ironic are doing this now.... https://review.openstack.org/#/c/236982/ | 18:57 |
| notmorgan | htruta: we've tried. if we want this, we need to do this | 18:57 |
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| notmorgan | ourselves. | 18:57 |
| stevemar | htruta: what he said ^ | 18:57 |
| notmorgan | some projects are going to beat us to the punch | 18:57 |
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| htruta | notmorgan: heh. makes sense | 18:58 |
| stevemar | bknudson: we can look into that | 18:58 |
| notmorgan | so, getting us to KSA everywhere and using OCC for client construction will mean version specification will become less of an issue | 18:58 |
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| stevemar | we're at time | 18:59 |
| stevemar | thanks for attending everyone | 18:59 |
| notmorgan | and that will help aleviate problems excpet in cases like heat where the project needs v3 keystone APIs | 18:59 |
| notmorgan | but heat isn't a problem | 18:59 |
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| notmorgan | (vs. just auth) | 18:59 |
| stevemar | #endmeeting | 18:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:59 | |
| lbragstad | o/ | 18:59 |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 2 18:59:31 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-02-02-18.01.html | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-02-02-18.01.txt | 18:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-02-02-18.01.log.html | 18:59 |
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| fungi | everybody know what time it is? | 19:00 |
| AJaeger | yeah... | 19:00 |
| Zara | \o/ | 19:00 |
| Clint | peanut butter jelly? | 19:00 |
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| crinkle | o/ | 19:00 |
| fungi | i was going for a howdy doody feel, but sure | 19:00 |
| SotK | o/ | 19:01 |
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| prometheanfire | luks | 19:01 |
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| Clint | IT'S HOWDY DOODY TIME | 19:01 |
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| clarkb | ohai | 19:01 |
| yolanda | o/ | 19:02 |
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| Clint | persia: you have 58 minutes | 19:02 |
| fungi | pleia2: jeblair: jhesketh: mordred: SergeyLukjanov: nibalizer: thomasem: dimtruck: krotscheck: annegentle: infra meeting starting now | 19:02 |
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| jeblair | o/ | 19:03 |
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| dimtruck | o/ | 19:03 |
| fungi | #startmeeting infra | 19:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 2 19:03:20 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:03 |
| cody-somerville | \o | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:03 |
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| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:03 |
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| fungi | #topic Announcements | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| ianw | o/ | 19:03 |
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| olaph | o/ | 19:04 |
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| fungi | hrm, i thought i'd saved a link for this, just a sec | 19:04 |
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| fungi | okay, here we go. sorry about that | 19:05 |
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| fungi | #info Mentors needed for GSOC | 19:05 |
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| fungi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-February/085508.html | 19:05 |
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| fungi | we've had some great infra interns/mentees in the past, and it's a great way to get in touch with potential new additions to the team, to openstack, and to free software in general | 19:06 |
| fungi | i encourage people to give it a try, especially if they've never mentored. it's a rewarding experience | 19:06 |
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| fungi | anyway, no other announcements lined up. anything important i should mention before we move on to action items? | 19:06 |
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| fungi | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:07 | |
| fungi | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-01-26-19.02.html | 19:07 |
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| fungi | cody-somerville to draft and send HPE Cloud shutdown notice+impact to openstack-infra and openstack-dev | 19:07 |
| fungi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-January/085141.html | 19:07 |
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| fungi | thanks cody-sommerville for sending that! | 19:07 |
| cody-somerville | No problem. | 19:08 |
| fungi | thanks everyone who worked on maintaining the former hewlett-packard cloud for our use and abuse! | 19:08 |
| anteaya | thanks cody-somerville | 19:08 |
| fungi | and thanks to the rest of the infra team for making the removal well-planned, quick and painless! | 19:08 |
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| anteaya | yes thank you | 19:08 |
| cody-somerville | We've gotten some folks who are interested in donating resources. Is someone following up with them? | 19:08 |
| anteaya | who did you contact about that? | 19:08 |
| fungi | there was one which emerged form the infra ml moderation queue yesterday, and i was planning to reply but haven't had time yet | 19:08 |
| fungi | s/form/from/ | 19:08 |
| anteaya | obviously I have backscroll to read | 19:09 |
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| clarkb | I am currently working with osic for credentials | 19:09 |
| anteaya | yay | 19:09 |
| clarkb | harlowja says they will have internal disucssion and may have something for us | 19:09 |
| anteaya | wonderful | 19:09 |
| harlowja | clarkb yup | 19:09 |
| harlowja | gonna go poke the SE guy here who said he wanted to chat with me about this | 19:09 |
| fungi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2016-January/003707.html | 19:09 |
| fungi | "safebrands" | 19:09 |
| fungi | though odd that the offer came from their head of marketing | 19:10 |
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| anteaya | yay safebrands | 19:10 |
| jeblair | we have logos on a marketing page now :) | 19:10 |
| anteaya | yay | 19:10 |
| fungi | yes we do! | 19:10 |
| fungi | anyway, no need to eat up meeting time with this one | 19:10 |
| anteaya | so much progress | 19:10 |
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| fungi | nibalizer release gerritlib 0.5.0 | 19:11 |
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| fungi | #link https://pypi.python.org/pypi/gerritlib | 19:11 |
| zaro | o/ | 19:11 |
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| fungi | thanks nibalizer for picking that up after i promised to do it and then dropped it on the floor! | 19:11 |
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| yolanda | yay gerritlib! | 19:11 |
| fungi | i didn't see any fallout from the gerritlib release, so smooth sailing there i guess | 19:11 |
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| fungi | #topic Specs approval | 19:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:11 | |
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| fungi | PROPOSED: Unified Mirrors (krotscheck, jeblair) | 19:12 |
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| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/252678 | 19:12 |
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| fungi | looks like this was discussed as i'd hoped last week, though council voting was deferred for an additional week | 19:12 |
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| fungi | #info Voting is open on the "Unified Mirrors" spec until 19:00 UTC Thursday, February 4. | 19:12 |
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| krotscheck1 | \o/ | 19:12 |
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| fungi | we've got a status update on the agenda for this already, so i'll avoid spending much time on the spec announcement | 19:12 |
| jeblair | i have also pushed up the afs modification of that https://review.openstack.org/273673 | 19:12 |
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| fungi | cool. everyone let's vote on that too by thursday if possible | 19:13 |
| jeblair | (which is what's actually in production now) | 19:13 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/273673 | 19:13 |
| fungi | #topic Adding a new node to nodepool to support libvirt-lxc testing in Nova (thomasem, dimtruck) | 19:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Adding a new node to nodepool to support libvirt-lxc testing in Nova (thomasem, dimtruck) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:13 | |
| fungi | any chance thomasem or dimtruck are around this week to discuss what they wanted here? | 19:14 |
| thomasem | fungi: So, this turned out to be a bug that was filed here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libvirt/+bug/1536280 | 19:14 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1536280 in linux (Ubuntu) "domain shutdown fails for libvirt/lxc" [Medium,Confirmed] | 19:14 |
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| fungi | #link https://launchpad.net/bugs/1536280 | 19:14 |
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| thomasem | We're disabling the tests affected right now to just get some testing for LXC working, and I'm iterating tests here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/274792/1 and investigating the other failures. | 19:14 |
| thomasem | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/274792/1 | 19:15 |
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| clarkb | I wouldn't make a special new node just for this. If newer kernel fixes it we can use that across the board for example | 19:15 |
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| clarkb | or use centos/fedora until ubuntu can fix | 19:15 |
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| anteaya | thomasem: so from the nova mid-cycle last week I got that you want to use a specific kernel for your test | 19:15 |
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| fungi | yeah, trying on centos 7 was one of my earlier suggestions as well | 19:15 |
| fungi | or fedora 23 | 19:16 |
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| fungi | the latter should have a pretty bleeding-edge kernel i think | 19:16 |
| thomasem | clarkb: fungi: Good call, I wasn't sure what our options are regarding that, but if we can just specify a different kernel, I would be amenable to that. I haven't tried on other OSes | 19:16 |
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| thomasem | I'm using 3.18.x in my environments and that works great | 19:16 |
| clarkb | thomasem: ubuntu LTSs have the hardware support kernels which we havne't had to use previously but are available to us | 19:16 |
| fungi | i'm a little iffy on having our test environment for ubuntu 14.04 lts use a nonstandard kernel, and having jobs rely on that | 19:17 |
| clarkb | fungi: its "standard" | 19:17 |
| clarkb | fungi: it just isn't default | 19:17 |
| fungi | but if it's a packaged kernel in updates that's fine | 19:17 |
| fungi | yep, no disagreement from me on that | 19:17 |
| thomasem | So, you would prefer a different OS entirely? I think that's why we were considering a different node at the time. That's not the biggest problem right away, though. The biggest problem is the other intermittent failures that I don't have a root cause for yet. | 19:17 |
| cody-somerville | Is there a specific kernel patch that is needed? Maybe we can get them to include it in the LTS kernel. | 19:18 |
| fungi | as long as it doesn't also come with new and improved blow up all our other jobs support | 19:18 |
| thomasem | Hahaha, yeah | 19:18 |
| clarkb | fungi: right that is the risk and why centos7/fedora23 would be preferable to start probably | 19:18 |
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| thomasem | To avoid Ubuntu node kernel changes affecting everything else? | 19:18 |
| ianw | thomasem: centos is 3.10 ... but probably heavily modified ... f23 is 4.3.3 | 19:18 |
| clarkb | thomasem: yes | 19:18 |
| thomasem | Gotcha | 19:18 |
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| ianw | thomasem: i can help you with setup of either | 19:18 |
| clarkb | thomasem: ovs, qemu, etc | 19:19 |
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| thomasem | ianw: Gotcha. At the moment I'm trying to just get this thing passing consistently for the tests that aren't affected by the kernel problem, if that makes sense. But, once we get that part solved, I would be happy to explore other node types that can open up the breadth of tests we can run on LXC reliably. | 19:20 |
| thomasem | clarkb: fungi ^^ | 19:20 |
| thomasem | does that all seem reasonable? | 19:20 |
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| fungi | okay, so sounds like there are at least a couple of good paths forward without adding a special "ubuntu with seasoning" node type | 19:20 |
| fungi | makes sense | 19:20 |
| clarkb | thomasem: yup makes sense | 19:20 |
| thomasem | Okay, awesome. ianw, I will hit you up if I run into snags, does that sound good? I really appreciate the aid. | 19:21 |
| fungi | thomasem: need anything else debated in the meeting, or does this transition to the infra channel/ml and code review next? | 19:21 |
| thomasem | fungi: Nope. I think we have a path forward, and if anything starts going wrong, I'll start screaming again. | 19:21 |
| thomasem | :D | 19:22 |
| fungi | excellent! we can finally get this off our meeting agenda backlog ;) | 19:22 |
| thomasem | woot woot | 19:22 |
| fungi | #topic Scheduling a Gerrit project rename batch maintenance (SergeyLukjanov) | 19:22 |
| anteaya | I don't think this constitues as screaming | 19:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Scheduling a Gerrit project rename batch maintenance (SergeyLukjanov) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:22 | |
| fungi | i do enough screaming for all of us | 19:22 |
| anteaya | I've never seen that happen | 19:22 |
| fungi | okay, last week it was decided to kick the ball down the road because lots of people were travelling | 19:22 |
| anteaya | anyway sorry to derail | 19:22 |
| anteaya | is SergeyLukjanov here? | 19:23 |
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| anteaya | I'm not excited about this, I'll play along but can't drive | 19:23 |
| fungi | there are a couple of pending renames for official repos. SergeyLukjanov was offering to run the maintenance as long as there are at least some of us around in case something goes awry | 19:23 |
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| clarkb | this weekend is an unofficial holiday in this country | 19:24 |
| fungi | foosball tournaments | 19:24 |
| anteaya | I can be around this weekend but again not in a hurry | 19:24 |
| clarkb | so I am mostly not around | 19:24 |
| fungi | i will not be partaking in said tournament mania so can be available... | 19:24 |
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| fungi | but also these renames don't seem terribly urgent and there aren't many of them | 19:25 |
| anteaya | I'm here if you need me | 19:25 |
| fungi | also this would be our first renames since the gerrit upgrade, right? | 19:25 |
| anteaya | yes | 19:25 |
| jeblair | oh, so probably worth a bit more attention than usual | 19:25 |
| fungi | so might be best to defer yet another week and have more people available | 19:25 |
| anteaya | good point | 19:25 |
| fungi | yeah | 19:25 |
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| yolanda | i can be around on mornings in my timezone, that will be the same as Sergey. But cannot be around in the afternoons | 19:26 |
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| fungi | yolanda: thanks, good to know | 19:26 |
| anteaya | I'm off again the weekend of the 12th | 19:26 |
| anteaya | until the end of Feb | 19:26 |
| anteaya | so not available for rename things | 19:26 |
| fungi | i guess i'll try to circle back around with SergeyLukjanov about a possible window for next week, and we can pick a time when we meet again | 19:27 |
| anteaya | yup | 19:27 |
| fungi | #topic Mirror update (jeblair, krotscheck) | 19:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Mirror update (jeblair, krotscheck) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:27 | |
| jeblair | you're all afs admins now | 19:27 |
| anteaya | ha ha ha | 19:27 |
| krotscheck1 | WOOO | 19:27 |
| krotscheck1 | Wait | 19:27 |
| krotscheck1 | sadpanda | 19:27 |
| anteaya | all == infra-root, yes? | 19:27 |
| fungi | afs administration as code! old meets new! | 19:28 |
| jeblair | the pypi mirrors are in production and on afs | 19:28 |
| jeblair | we're still keeping the old ones around for just a bit in case something goes terribly wrong | 19:28 |
| fungi | anteaya: all == anyone contributing patches and looking at whatever we can expose on dashboards and graphs | 19:28 |
| krotscheck1 | Wheel mirror work is still in progress. | 19:28 |
| anteaya | fungi: ah okay thanks | 19:28 |
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| jeblair | in general, the theory about it being fast by serving from local cache seems to be holding | 19:29 |
| AJaeger | anything special we need to know when reviewing? | 19:29 |
| jeblair | it does turn out that trans-atlantic udp is quite slow | 19:29 |
| clarkb | jeblair: are we going to set up a replica in europe? | 19:29 |
| jeblair | so when the ovh mirrors fetch something from the fileserver, it takes a bit longer | 19:29 |
| jeblair | clarkb: if we did, it may improve that ^ | 19:30 |
| fungi | AJaeger: probably for now, being aware that pip is installing from a cached backend for the pypi mirrors in our jobs is a good place to start | 19:30 |
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| jeblair | but also, even within the us, when we transfer hundreds of gb between data centers to make the read-only replicas, that turns out to be quite slow too | 19:30 |
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| fungi | in theory there should be no impact, but be on the lookout for oddities in jobs which could be explained by stale caches, cold caches, cache misses | 19:31 |
| Clint | we need faster-than-light packets | 19:31 |
| anteaya | thanks, good question AJaeger | 19:31 |
| AJaeger | fungi, ok, we learn as we go ;) | 19:31 |
| jeblair | our initial sync of the pypi mirror to a new read-only site took much longer than i guessed, and ended up getting aborted | 19:31 |
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| jeblair | i started another initial sync last night in a safer manner, and expect it to finish wed night | 19:31 |
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| jeblair | i'm going to manually release it after that a few times until i'm happy that the deltas are reasonably small and fast | 19:32 |
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| jeblair | then we can switch back to automated releases | 19:32 |
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| jeblair | and then, some time in the future, maybe we can look into whether there's anything we can tune to make this faster | 19:32 |
| jeblair | (cern measures their afs throughput in gbps) | 19:32 |
| clarkb | jeblair: the expectation is that only the initial sync is slow right? | 19:32 |
| jeblair | clarkb: yeah, it's an incremental system so should speed up considerably | 19:33 |
| fungi | doesn't seem terrible as a startup cost, really | 19:33 |
| fungi | consider that bootstrapping a pypi mirror from scratch with bandersnatch takes a similarly long amount of time | 19:33 |
| jeblair | [end of my report] | 19:33 |
| jeblair | indeed :) | 19:33 |
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| fungi | except in this case we (in theory) incur that cost once now instead of for every new mirror server we create | 19:34 |
| cody-somerville | If we start doing replication clones, I assume we'll cluster a couple together to avoid having to repay that setup cost in event of failure of one of the nodes? | 19:34 |
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| jeblair | right now we have 2 fileservers, in rax dfw and ord | 19:34 |
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| jeblair | i don't think that needs to change in the immediate future | 19:35 |
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| jeblair | as it's actually the mirror servers (which are afs clients) that are doing the real local caching | 19:35 |
| jeblair | and they are in each region we have nodepool slaves | 19:35 |
| * krotscheck1 is more or less done with the wheel_mirror patches, excepting some typos and cleanup. | 19:35 | |
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| * krotscheck1 is waiting for local tests to pass before uploading a (hopefully final) patchset | 19:36 | |
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| jeblair | yeah, i think those are ready once we get the incantation right :) | 19:36 |
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| fungi | awesome | 19:36 |
| jeblair | i created the first wheel volume in afs and mounted it | 19:36 |
| * krotscheck1 is fresh out of goats, will be switching to tofu sacrifices. | 19:36 | |
| jeblair | so all the externalities have been satisfied | 19:37 |
| anteaya | krotscheck1: its squishy | 19:37 |
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| krotscheck1 | Most of the system-config patches should be ready though. | 19:37 |
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| krotscheck1 | It's only the job defenitions that are pending. | 19:37 |
| krotscheck1 | jeblair: Do we already have a wheel slave? | 19:37 |
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| jeblair | krotscheck1: no | 19:37 |
| jeblair | fungi: right? | 19:37 |
| clarkb | and we will need one for each platform | 19:38 |
| clarkb | or otherwise chroot/container | 19:38 |
| jeblair | clarkb: right, though we're starting with only ubuntu for simplicity | 19:38 |
| fungi | no wheel slave built yet afaik | 19:38 |
| fungi | so yes, that's an upcoming step | 19:38 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: that makes sense | 19:39 |
| fungi | so thrilling progress with afs in production! this also makes for a great segue into our next topic | 19:39 |
| fungi | unless there are more afs/wheel mirror questions | 19:39 |
| anteaya | none here | 19:40 |
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| fungi | #topic Swift for docs publishing (annegentle, fungi) | 19:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Swift for docs publishing (annegentle, fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:40 | |
| fungi | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/doc-publishing.html | 19:40 |
| fungi | there was some renewed interest from the docs team in recent weeks/months on this spec | 19:41 |
| jeblair | i have prepared thoughts on this, sorry for the bomb. | 19:41 |
| jeblair | note that the spec also has an afs alternative section: | 19:41 |
| jeblair | http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/doc-publishing.html#afs | 19:41 |
| jeblair | it says to do this, we'd have to set up an afs cell which is a lot of work | 19:41 |
| jeblair | but we have an afs cell now | 19:41 |
| jeblair | so it's probably worth revisiting | 19:41 |
| jeblair | originally, i imagined that to have it work securely on throwaway nodes, we would need zuul to do some complicated stuff with creating principals, pts entries, etc | 19:41 |
| jeblair | that's still more work than i'd like to do in zuulv2, but it's possible, and may be less work than the rube-goldberg approach in the spec | 19:41 |
| jeblair | however, if we are willing to be a little less paranoid, and trust doc build jobs with afs creds on long lunning slaves (like we chose to do with mirror wheel builds), we could get docs into afs with rsync _really quickly_ | 19:41 |
| fungi | really what it's mostly lacking now is some available hands to work through implementation | 19:41 |
| fungi | oh, heh. reading | 19:41 |
| fungi | and yes, basically what i was about to say | 19:41 |
| fungi | thanks for saving me the typing! | 19:42 |
| jeblair | :) | 19:42 |
| fungi | so the takeaway there is... if there are people who are really amped about afs, this is a great spec to jump on | 19:42 |
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| cody-somerville | Would it really need AFS credentials? Or just normal prived ssh key to do the build+publish workflow? | 19:43 |
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| SpamapS | wow, nobody wanted to just teach sphinx how to upload things to swift? | 19:43 |
| fungi | i would expect to see a revision of the current approved spec which takes the afs details into account of course, but aside from that i agree the work is much simplified if we go down that path now | 19:43 |
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| SpamapS | and proxy docs.openstack.org to swift? | 19:44 |
| jeblair | cody-somerville: logs are simpler, so i proposed doing that for that spec. docs are _much harder_ because of the layout | 19:44 |
| jeblair | SpamapS: see above | 19:44 |
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| fungi | SpamapS: i was equally shocked ;) | 19:44 |
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| cody-somerville | Also, wondering if there is benefit to dogfooding OpenStack service instead of relying on custom infrastructure here (though the point about layout is definitely fair) | 19:45 |
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| jeblair | we have different branches writing into basically the same tree (in a predictable/structured manner), so it can not simple be copied, or even blindly rsynced | 19:45 |
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| * annegentle waves | 19:46 | |
| jeblair | basically, the only way i know to get what we need is a careful rsync (copy is right out because you can't be smart about deletions) | 19:46 |
| fungi | our dogfooding of said storage solution for log publication has run into some snags, mostly around the browsing experience and need for real filesystem-like metadata too. while i agree we should avoid reinventing the wheel, this wheel was invented decades ago and is still nice and round | 19:46 |
| annegentle | yeah it's the "blindly rsynched" that's tough here | 19:46 |
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| cody-somerville | What if each build is published in unique location/namespace/whatever and then there is an atomic "update to point at latest"? | 19:47 |
| * annegentle catches up on afs cell stuff... | 19:47 | |
| SpamapS | Yeah, for an immediate solution, seems like just "better things behind the current solution" is going to have to win out over "making swift better" | 19:47 |
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| jeblair | cody-somerville: that's vaguely what the spec accomplishes -- it's sort of "build this as a unit, and try to drop the unit in place (with rsync)" | 19:48 |
| annegentle | cody-somerville: I'd have to think about that... we only "release" the install guides and config refs to a known /relname/ URL right now, and then the contrib dev docs also have "releases" | 19:48 |
| SpamapS | One should be able to build a site entirely hosted in swift. But if there's time pressure, sounds like can't dogfood it. | 19:48 |
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| annegentle | cody-somerville: then guides like Ops Guide, Security Guide, those are namespaced to cover multiple releases... | 19:49 |
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| fungi | well, the docs and logs use cases turned out to differ in a couple of key areas. logs: huge volume, need to track and possibly prune by age, need to generate indexes on the fly; docs: (comparatively) small quantity of data, comes with own indexing pregenerated | 19:49 |
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| annegentle | cody-somerville: so yeah it's vaguely like that :) | 19:49 |
| jeblair | SpamapS: that's where we started with this, but the actual requirements are almost completely opposite of what swift provides | 19:49 |
| SpamapS | jeblair: how disappointing. :( | 19:49 |
| annegentle | SpamapS: ha. Yeah I wondered how much the reality had moved on with a 1.5 year old spec jeblair | 19:49 |
| SpamapS | That may explain why I am always puzzled as to why somebody didn't use swift. Maybe it just isn't for what I think it's for. | 19:49 |
| annegentle | so that's also a point to discuss, is that spec reflecting reality? | 19:50 |
| annegentle | Honestly, it comes up mostly when Google finds an outdated doc that's still on the server because we don't delete. | 19:50 |
| jeblair | annegentle: i think the spec could still be implement as written; my personal feeling is that we'd get it done faster if we pivoted to afs (which is the big thing that has moved on since the spec was written) | 19:50 |
| annegentle | the other big win is HTTPS on docs. and developer. | 19:50 |
| SpamapS | Like, I also think anything that is "a mirror" should be hostable in a thing like swift. But nobody seems to do that, so there must be something about it that just makes that really hard. | 19:50 |
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| annegentle | jeblair: ok, that's good to know and exactly why I'm asking :) | 19:50 |
| SpamapS | ++ on https for docs | 19:51 |
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| annegentle | SpamapS: IKNOW :) | 19:51 |
| annegentle | kidding on the shout :) | 19:51 |
| AJaeger | SpamapS: noone disagrees ;) | 19:51 |
| fungi | SpamapS: well, the docs "site" is built in bits and pieces with different processes modifying overlapping parts of the tree at different times | 19:51 |
| cody-somerville | I'm just concerned with AFS becoming a hard dependency of the CI system. | 19:51 |
| jeblair | and i think either way, we can add https | 19:51 |
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| annegentle | jeblair: true | 19:51 |
| fungi | so persistence and malleability are needed for the current state of docs.o.o | 19:51 |
| clarkb | SpamapS: no public access except via cdn and rudimentary indexing ability are the two killers for us | 19:52 |
| fungi | also swift doesn't seem to be designed as a filesystem, rather as a filestore, and you still need to maintain external indexing (which is where we're still struggling with the log storage effort) | 19:52 |
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| fungi | lack of hierarchical indexing, specifically (or any built-in hierarchy at all really) | 19:53 |
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| jeblair | if folks aren't sick of hearing about afs, i can propose a spec update and describe what that would look like | 19:54 |
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| fungi | and here i was just about to ask who wanted to take that as a next step | 19:54 |
| anteaya | jeblair: I'd like to see your spec update proposal | 19:54 |
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| jeblair | i'd like to know whether we're comfortable with semi-trusted doc build jobs | 19:54 |
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| anteaya | I'd like to read about what makes them semi-trusted | 19:54 |
| SpamapS | yeah we can discuss swift's flaws another time. +1 on afs from me, but with the caveat that I'm just a curious party, not a working party, in this context. | 19:54 |
| jeblair | i can also write it up both ways i guess | 19:54 |
| fungi | it's no worse, trust-wise, than the status quo so no objection from me for now | 19:54 |
| annegentle | spec update is progress to me, and ensures we're still moving towards https and decent synch | 19:55 |
| annegentle | "good enough synch" | 19:55 |
| jeblair | ok, i'll do that, and we can accept or reject that approach | 19:56 |
| annegentle | jeblair: thanks | 19:56 |
| jeblair | np | 19:56 |
| fungi | excellent! and also a timely topic in conjunction with afs usage recently going into production for our mirroring | 19:56 |
| fungi | #topic Open discussion | 19:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:56 | |
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| cody-somerville | jeblair: will doc publishing have access to the vos command? | 19:56 |
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| fungi | pabelanger: any last-minute updates on the upstream development presentations ideas for the summit? did you get anything submitted? cfp deadline is in a few hours | 19:57 |
| jeblair | cody-somerville: not directly, too high priv. possibly as a follow-up job like we're doing for wheels | 19:58 |
| AJaeger | FYI: The new Translation is nearly finished, the unified approach works fine. Now amotoki and myself are cleaning up and reenabling all repos again. Then it's figuring out horizon. | 19:58 |
| AJaeger | Current set of changes: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open%20%20branch:master%20topic:translation_setup | 19:58 |
| AJaeger | Only project-config ones are mandatory - reviews are welcome | 19:58 |
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| AJaeger | fungi, pabelanger sumitted the lightning talks for sure | 19:59 |
| dougwig | AJaeger: yay. :) | 19:59 |
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| fungi | thanks pabelanger! | 19:59 |
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| fungi | okay, we're out of time | 20:00 |
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| fungi | thanks all | 20:00 |
| fungi | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 2 20:00:10 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-02-02-19.03.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-02-02-19.03.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-02-02-19.03.log.html | 20:00 |
| fungi | take it away, ttx | 20:00 |
| crinkle | o/ | 20:00 |
| ttx | russellb, mestery, annegentle, lifeless, mordred, flaper87, dtroyer, markmcclain, jeblair, jaypipes, sdague, dhellmann: around ? | 20:00 |
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| flaper87 | o/ | 20:00 |
| russellb | hi | 20:00 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:00 |
| mestery | o/ | 20:00 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:00 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 20:00 |
| keedya | Hi All | 20:00 |
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| ttx | Alright that makes 7 of us | 20:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 2 20:01:21 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:01 |
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| ttx | Hi everyone! | 20:01 |
| annegentle | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | Here is our agenda for today: | 20:01 |
| devananda | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:01 |
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| ttx | #topic Adds the Poppy CDN project to the Governance Repository | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Adds the Poppy CDN project to the Governance Repository (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/273756 | 20:02 |
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| ttx | Poppy has been around for some time, including some presence in past summits | 20:02 |
| ttx | They hold regular meetings on IRC and sometimes used the ML for discussion | 20:02 |
| ttx | flaper87: you raise two points | 20:02 |
| dhellmann | the only part of this that worried me was not finding anything about a ptl election, did they have one? | 20:03 |
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| jaypipes | o/ | 20:03 |
| mestery | dhellmann: ++, and flaper87 raised that in the review | 20:03 |
| ttx | We don't mandate that they had an election for the initial ptl tbh | 20:03 |
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| dhellmann | ok, that's fair, I just wasn't sure how the current ptl was selected at all | 20:03 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: I seem to remember they did but I could be wrong. FWIW, I think they know the "openstack way" | 20:03 |
| ttx | once in they are included in the election runs, but they can announce a ptl for the initial cycle | 20:03 |
| dtroyer | o/ | 20:03 |
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| anteaya | for new projects it mostly is by aclaimation even if they do go through the motions | 20:03 |
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| flaper87 | Most (all) of them used to be part of Zaqar in the past and I'm confident they won't have issues adopting elections and other tools they perhaps haven't used enough | 20:04 |
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| ttx | as far as the tag goes, it should really be applied by us | 20:04 |
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| flaper87 | ttx: happy to do it myself | 20:04 |
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| ttx | would be the occasion to refresh all of them | 20:04 |
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| ttx | so in summary i wouldn't block on those issues | 20:05 |
| * dims_ lurks | 20:05 | |
| dhellmann | agreed | 20:05 |
| flaper87 | ++ | 20:05 |
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| flaper87 | happy to remove my -1 | 20:05 |
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| ttx | any other objection / remark ? | 20:06 |
| mestery | Also agreed, and commented as such in the review | 20:06 |
| ttx | It certainly is a small project | 20:06 |
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| ttx | but it feels integrated enough, using Designate for stuff | 20:06 |
| jeblair | are there any open source cdns poppy could interface with? | 20:07 |
| annegentle | jeblair: hm, none I can think of | 20:07 |
| ttx | jeblair: good question, I don't think there is such a thing ? | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | yeah, their presentation to our meetup group a while back was quite impressive in terms of the amount of upstream integration they had and were planning | 20:07 |
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| * ttx looks at deps | 20:07 | |
| jeblair | i'm wondering if this is a case of a project that we can not fully test because it exists solely to interface with proprietary services | 20:07 |
| jeblair | dhellmann: can you elaborate? | 20:08 |
| dhellmann | oh, just that they were using oslo, relying on designate, etc. | 20:08 |
| jeblair | ah gotcha | 20:08 |
| dhellmann | they were trying to focus their layer and work with the other existing projects | 20:08 |
| dhellmann | not reinvent things | 20:08 |
| flaper87 | ++ | 20:08 |
| ttx | hmm, they seem to have a pretty weird directory layout | 20:08 |
| ttx | see the requirements directory | 20:09 |
| annegentle | let's have them not make a separate client and plug into osc :) | 20:09 |
| dtroyer | they would still need a lib for that | 20:09 |
| dhellmann | annegentle : ++ | 20:09 |
| jaypipes | jeblair: that is my concern as well. | 20:09 |
| ttx | I wonder how they can gate with such a setup | 20:09 |
| flaper87 | annegentle: that's their plan already | 20:09 |
| lifeless | hi, @lca so can't really pay attention here | 20:09 |
| annegentle | dtroyer: flaper87: cool | 20:09 |
| flaper87 | we can have them make that explicit in the review | 20:09 |
| flaper87 | I believe they've talked w/ dtroyer already | 20:09 |
| ttx | oh, just a very specific tox.ini | 20:09 |
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| dhellmann | yeah, I wonder if their dist has good metadata | 20:10 |
| dhellmann | we might need to work with them on that | 20:10 |
| flaper87 | yup | 20:10 |
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| * edleafe wanders in late | 20:10 | |
| flaper87 | mmh, not sure if they're syncing with upstream g-requirements given their requirements structure | 20:11 |
| ttx | hmm, I wonder about the licenses of those deps | 20:11 |
| dhellmann | flaper87 : no, they aren't | 20:11 |
| flaper87 | amitgandhinz: around ? | 20:11 |
| amitgandhinz | flaper87: hi | 20:11 |
| flaper87 | It'd be cool if you could help us clarify some things | 20:11 |
| flaper87 | amitgandhinz: ^ | 20:11 |
| flaper87 | backlog :D | 20:11 |
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| flaper87 | amitgandhinz: basically, we noticed you folks are not syncing with global requirements | 20:12 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: we should be able to clear a lot of that up by converting the separate files to extras | 20:12 |
| flaper87 | and there might be some dependencies that don't have a license that works well with OpenStack | 20:12 |
| amitgandhinz | not currently. we in general have tried to follow the general requirements but have not enforced it. i think there are a few that arent | 20:12 |
| flaper87 | amitgandhinz: are you folks working on getting there? | 20:12 |
| ttx | Abstaining until I can check the licenses on deps | 20:12 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: sure, but maybe we should wait until that's clarified before approving ? | 20:13 |
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| amitgandhinz | we can. it hasnt been a priority right now to remove the stuff that is not part of general reqs but we can prioritize that if needed | 20:13 |
| jeblair | amitgandhinz: is there an open source cdn system that poppy could integrate with? | 20:13 |
| dhellmann | ttx: maybe | 20:13 |
| amitgandhinz | jeblair: nothing that is active. there have been a few that fizzled like OpenCDN etc, but nothing that has stayed and matured | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | amitgandhinz : we need it to be clear that you're meeting the requirement "Project must have no library dependencies which effectively restrict how the project may be distributed or deployed" | 20:14 |
| * flaper87 abstains as well... | 20:14 | |
| flaper87 | looking forward to clarify the requirements bit, otherwise it looks good | 20:14 |
| amitgandhinz | im pretty sure everything is apache licensed but would need to confirm it | 20:14 |
| flaper87 | amitgandhinz: happy to help with guidance on that front if necessary | 20:14 |
| flaper87 | amitgandhinz: requirements, tox, etc. | 20:14 |
| thingee | amitgandhinz: without an open source solution there's not really a reference implementation to verify things work from a testing perspective. | 20:15 |
| ttx | I couldn't spot any blatant issue with the licensing in the deps | 20:15 |
| * jroll notices the tests use mimic to mock CDN provider APIs | 20:15 | |
| thingee | amitgandhinz: recommend reading the discussion on where mimic has been going in the openstack community http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-January/083510.html | 20:16 |
| ttx | certifi is ISC, but we might need to add that to the mix anyway | 20:16 |
| malini | FYI - mimic is just used in the docker support, but the tests are independent of mimic | 20:17 |
| flaper87 | malini: oh, that's good input. | 20:17 |
| jroll | ah, neat | 20:17 |
| ttx | OK, we have enough votes to pass this | 20:17 |
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| jeblair | jroll: yeah, it's probably as good as can practically be in this case. i'm struggling with it because when i talk about our stance on open core, i say we leave the door open for plugins for proprietary systems but our open-source implementations are first-class. | 20:17 |
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| sdague | I guess it's just whether an orchestrator for commercial services that has no open implementation is really openstack. Seems a little odd to me personally. Especially given that no open core issue. | 20:17 |
| thingee | jeblair: +1000 | 20:18 |
| jeblair | sdague: i think we just said very similar things | 20:18 |
| jroll | jeblair: yeah, agree | 20:18 |
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| jroll | just wanted to note that, for better or worse | 20:18 |
| ttx | sdague, jeblair: yes, that's a good point. | 20:18 |
| sdague | jeblair: yes | 20:18 |
| thingee | jeblair: however like I spoke to you about open core and openstack, I don't think it's exactly accurate stance we currently have. | 20:19 |
| sdague | i'm -1 for that reason honestly, I just don't think we want that to be our pattern | 20:19 |
| jeblair | i recognize the complexity introduced by not having a viable open source implementation of a thing though. thus the struggle. | 20:19 |
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| dhellmann | yeah, this isn't a case of a project ignoring an open source option | 20:19 |
| sdague | openstack doesn't have to be the home for all software | 20:19 |
| ttx | I propose we think a bit more about it over the week and make a final call next week | 20:19 |
| annegentle | jeblair: yeah... it's such a physical thing too, these networks and geographies | 20:19 |
| ttx | would be interesting to have a discussion about the "no open core" principle and where that leads us wrt: Poppy | 20:20 |
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| mestery | ttx: Seems reasonable | 20:20 |
| thingee | ttx: +1 | 20:20 |
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| flaper87 | ttx: ++ | 20:20 |
| thingee | to both points of waiting and open core discussion | 20:20 |
| ttx | The brokering-to-commercial-serviuces aspect was also hitting some nerves on my side | 20:20 |
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| annegentle | the struggle is that it provides a better user story | 20:21 |
| ttx | Alright, let's put it back on agenda next week, and have interesting discussion in the mean time | 20:21 |
| annegentle | but yeah, I get it. it's a struggle | 20:21 |
| jeblair | annegentle: agreed | 20:21 |
| ttx | #topic Rescheduling bug-smash event | 20:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Rescheduling bug-smash event (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:21 | |
| jeblair | annegentle: if i had to use a cdn, i'd like to do so with an openstack api :) | 20:21 |
| ttx | annegentle: it's not an easy call, otherwise we'd had made it already | 20:21 |
| annegentle | jeblair: ++ | 20:21 |
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| ttx | it's neither completely wrong nor completely fine. | 20:22 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-January/085196.html | 20:22 |
| ttx | dhellmann: care to introduce this topic ? | 20:22 |
| dhellmann | sure | 20:22 |
| dhellmann | some folks from intel, ibm, and a bunch of other companies are trying to organize an even to encourage working on bugs | 20:22 |
| dhellmann | in the past these have resulted in some new contributors, and obviously new contributions | 20:23 |
| dhellmann | in principle I like the idea, but they have picked dates that correspond exactly with our feature freeze deadline this cycle | 20:23 |
| dhellmann | so, I have asked them to reschedule it | 20:23 |
| ttx | which is basically the worst possible date | 20:23 |
| ttx | it was a pretty bad date already last cycle iirc | 20:23 |
| sdague | this has also happened the last two cycles in similar ways | 20:24 |
| dhellmann | no one has said "no", but shane wang, who seems to be the main organizer, has asked the TC to weigh in | 20:24 |
| dhellmann | after we get this one moved, as sdague says, we keep having this problem so I would like to brainstorm ideas for addressing that separately | 20:24 |
| annegentle | what's the offset? | 20:24 |
| ttx | Well, my view on it is that if they want some attendance to that event they should definitely avoid that week | 20:24 |
| annegentle | a week? | 20:24 |
| dhellmann | apparently the "marketing folks" picked these days, and I'm not sure how to communicate with them | 20:24 |
| russellb | yes, i think it should be rescheduled. | 20:24 |
| dhellmann | annegentle : yes, one week later | 20:24 |
| mestery | Definitely needs to be rescheduled | 20:24 |
| anteaya | do folks know we have a release schedule? http://docs.openstack.org/releases/mitaka/schedule.html | 20:24 |
| russellb | i can't imagine why anyone would disagree with that | 20:24 |
| dhellmann | that's still not ideal for finding a bunch of mentors, but it's better than FF date | 20:25 |
| flaper87 | I'd probably recommend rescheduling it the week after or even 2 weeks after | 20:25 |
| jeblair | #link http://docs.openstack.org/releases/mitaka/schedule.html | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | flaper87 : 2 weeks puts us close to RC1 | 20:25 |
| ttx | and in general move that in the first tier of the cycle if they want more attendance, like sdague suggested on thread | 20:25 |
| mestery | anteaya: The folks scheduling these types of things apparently don't, we need to advertise that better I think | 20:25 |
| flaper87 | right but 1 week is still a bit hard for other folks to attend | 20:25 |
| anteaya | mestery: I can support that | 20:25 |
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| flaper87 | mmh | 20:25 |
| sdague | well, my understanding is feedback was given during the early discussions, but it was not taken | 20:25 |
| anteaya | sdague: :( | 20:26 |
| dhellmann | flaper87 : my argument for moving it from the FF date is that it jeopardizes landing features in the release. doing it on the RC1 date would have the same effect. | 20:26 |
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| flaper87 | sdague: any reference for that? | 20:26 |
| ttx | dhellmann: +1 | 20:26 |
| annegentle | last week of feb. would be better? | 20:26 |
| dhellmann | flaper87 : shane's email to me indicated they were aware fo the issue | 20:26 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: ++ | 20:26 |
| ttx | i think the date you suggested is the less worse | 20:26 |
| ttx | annegentle: not really | 20:26 |
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| flaper87 | dhellmann: oh, ok. | 20:26 |
| dhellmann | annegentle : after the next summit is the best time, frankly | 20:26 |
| sdague | dhellmann: ++ | 20:26 |
| anteaya | can the tc schedule global bug smash days? and the companies can then market it? | 20:27 |
| ttx | http://docs.openstack.org/releases/mitaka/schedule.html | 20:27 |
| jroll | I'm curious why getting a bunch of folks together to work on bugs would be bad during RC time | 20:27 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: ++ to that as well. I wonder if it'd be better, as bad as it sounds given the time some folks have put into this, to just do it in N-1 | 20:27 |
| ttx | R-7 is an option, otherwise R-4 | 20:27 |
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| jroll | isn't that when we should be really focused on hammering out bug fixes? | 20:27 |
| annegentle | but these bug fixes, are they more for stable releases? | 20:27 |
| sdague | jroll: because it is being advertised as a great way to onboard new folks during that window | 20:27 |
| ttx | jroll: it's not optimal. But better than hitting FF week | 20:27 |
| annegentle | I mean, honestly, onboarding more stable fixers would be a nice goal. | 20:27 |
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| dhellmann | jroll : doing it on the day we're trying to spin the release means a fix you want might not get in because of the extra load on the gate | 20:28 |
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| sdague | when teams are getting to a very narrow view of what needs to be solved | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | jroll : also what sdague said | 20:28 |
| jeblair | and the extra load on people :) | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | jeblair : yes | 20:28 |
| sdague | jeblair: ++ | 20:28 |
| jroll | fair enough | 20:28 |
| flaper87 | it's not necessarily bad for OpenStack but for ppl getting onboard | 20:28 |
| jroll | b 57 | 20:28 |
| jroll | oops | 20:28 |
| amrith | as a general matter, what time in the release schedule does the TC feel would be good for such a bug smash day? | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | basically, we're all focused on things other than the goal of this, which will either distract us or fail because of lack of support from the rest of the community | 20:28 |
| thingee | doesn't help with the sunsetting of public cloud infra was using | 20:29 |
| anteaya | amrith: m1 | 20:29 |
| amrith | anteaya, thx | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | amrith : between summit and M1 | 20:29 |
| thingee | resources are in an all time low | 20:29 |
| barrett1 | amrith: excellent question!! | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | amrith : never *on* a deadline week | 20:29 |
| jroll | I do find it odd that we're opposed to new contributors joining or people fixing bugs at any point in the cycle, but I do understand the points here | 20:29 |
| amrith | dhellmann, amen to that ;) | 20:29 |
| flaper87 | and as early in the cycle as possible | 20:29 |
| flaper87 | I'd add | 20:29 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I would just go with your suggestion that R-4 (the week after the one originally planned) is at this stage the less worse place to make it happen, otherwise next cycle | 20:29 |
| thingee | jroll: maybe discouraged if you don't really have something merged for first timers? | 20:29 |
| amrith | I was looking to direct the conversation towards anteaya's point of the TC proposing a date and then companies marketing that for the coming cycle. | 20:29 |
| amrith | So, N1 or before ... | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | jroll : to be clear, I'd love to have a bunch of bugs fixed. My issue is the expectations of the organizers with respect to new contributors does not mesh with that week, and that week is not a good time to introduce a *lot* of changes all at once. | 20:30 |
| mestery | jroll: I think it's more of a timing thing, and the results of crushing the system from new contributors during a critical release week. | 20:30 |
| sdague | jroll: well, it's more about setting expectations. If you are coming in as an expert you can land whenever | 20:30 |
| ttx | Also first part of the cycle is a great time to push backports to the recent release | 20:30 |
| jeblair | jroll: for me, i'm not opposed, it's just that i think it will not be nearly as good an experience for all involved compared to the alternative times | 20:30 |
| barrett1 | amrith: Agree - suggest that we reframe the "future" discussion to be more about identifying optimal times for these activities and then recruiting people/companies/geos/verticals to run them and work with TC to define focus areas. | 20:30 |
| annegentle | I do have empathy for procuring physical space. It's a scramble sometimes. | 20:30 |
| david-lyle | just throwing this out, but why does/should the TC have a say in when people in the community want to fix bugs at all? | 20:30 |
| jeblair | david-lyle: because we were asked :) | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | ttx: ok. I'm not sure how to make that clear to Shane. Maybe we can vote? or use #agreed to put it in the minutes at least? | 20:30 |
| flaper87 | david-lyle: because they asked for | 20:30 |
| sdague | however, bootstrapping new folks, that's just not a great time | 20:30 |
| annegentle | I'd still like bug fixes and doc fixes :) | 20:30 |
| ttx | david-lyle: we don't, they asked | 20:30 |
| annegentle | any week | 20:30 |
| david-lyle | ok, missed the asking, thanks | 20:30 |
| anteaya | david-lyle: gate load | 20:31 |
| dhellmann | actually, as release managment PTL, I raised the issue | 20:31 |
| amrith | I would also like it if there were some support to actively dissuade this event (at the time proposed). it will be bad for two reasons. one as indicated is the load on the infrastructure and 2 the bad impression that a newbie may get ... | 20:31 |
| ttx | All in agreement with suggesting R-4 or next cycle ? | 20:31 |
| dhellmann | yes | 20:31 |
| flaper87 | ++ | 20:31 |
| dtroyer | ++ | 20:31 |
| jeblair | ttx: ++ | 20:31 |
| sdague | yeh, next cycle even better | 20:31 |
| mestery | ++ | 20:32 |
| ttx | #agreed Suggest that they use R-4 week, or just defer to early next cycle | 20:32 |
| jokke_ | In pricipal I like the idea of bugsmashing event between FF and RC1 or right after RC1 | 20:32 |
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| ttx | ok, next topic | 20:32 |
| ttx | #topic Follow-up on last weeks applications | 20:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Follow-up on last weeks applications (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:32 | |
| dhellmann | ok, thanks everyone, I'll email shane back and we can move on | 20:32 |
| ttx | I wanted to get next actions on the projects that were considered last week | 20:32 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: thanks for raising this | 20:32 |
| ttx | * EC2API (https://review.openstack.org/268774) | 20:33 |
| ttx | Alexandre did post a small wording update, hoping that matches what you expected | 20:33 |
| ttx | We now have 4 +1 | 20:33 |
| sdague | I just added my +1 | 20:33 |
| sdague | that team has been doing a pretty solid job | 20:33 |
| ttx | so if you would consider reposting yours we can probably pass that one today | 20:33 |
| * flaper87 does that | 20:33 | |
| ttx | * Add new Repo(shovel) to the Governance Repository (https://review.openstack.org/269417) | 20:33 |
| ttx | Unless there is an objection I will abandon this one as "needs to start existing first" | 20:34 |
| flaper87 | oh, mine is there already | 20:34 |
| ttx | * Adding SaltStack to OpenStack (https://review.openstack.org/269556) | 20:34 |
| ttx | Same here, I propose to abandon this one until the project team gets some mileage | 20:34 |
| flaper87 | ++ | 20:34 |
| dhellmann | ++ | 20:34 |
| flaper87 | We've done that before and we've agreed abandoning is the way to go | 20:34 |
| ttx | ok, we have 8 now on ec2api | 20:34 |
| ttx | I'll proceed with approving | 20:34 |
| ttx | it's in! | 20:34 |
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| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:35 | |
| ttx | There were a few topics I wanted to discuss... | 20:35 |
| ttx | * Service type vs. project name for use in headers, and about the role of the API WG | 20:35 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-January/085145.html | 20:35 |
| ttx | This thread has a few interesting insights and questions | 20:35 |
| ttx | One of them being how directive we should be wrt. API guidelines | 20:35 |
| ttx | Traditionally we have considered that the API WG guidelines were mostly informative | 20:36 |
| * cdent is here for that | 20:36 | |
| * devananda lurks with increased interest for this topic | 20:36 | |
| ttx | But with our increased focus on end user experience I think it might make sense to push for more API consistency | 20:36 |
| ttx | and therefore give the guidelines a bit more teeth | 20:36 |
| ttx | (or at least some of them= | 20:36 |
| ttx | ) | 20:36 |
| ttx | what is your take on that ? | 20:36 |
| sdague | well, the API WG was also forward looking, as to the way things should become | 20:36 |
| thingee | sdague: yeah, but what about new projects forming? | 20:37 |
| ttx | yeah, maybe there is a split between the desired end state and a few low-hanging-fruit UX targets | 20:37 |
| sdague | in this specific case, nova is one of the offenders, mostly because we did a thing before anyone else here, and just been trying to sort the right moment to bring things back to compliance without ruining the world | 20:38 |
| edleafe | For new work, going against the WG standards should be a negative factor. We can't do much about existing APIs | 20:38 |
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| annegentle | part of the user experience consideration is of course what's already in the field. but yes, the API WG should have enough authority to say "this is how it's done" | 20:38 |
| annegentle | so if teeth=consideration and authority I'm good with it | 20:39 |
| thingee | edleafe: so that's the point I made in the thread. We look at this impossible for existing because we don't have a grasp of who are the offenders and what are they. | 20:39 |
| jeblair | this looks like the sort of thing where there is very little value in project differentiation aside from making it hard and confusing for developer-users. it seems like the tc putting some teeth behind the recomendation may prevent bikeshedding and make things just a little less terrible for folks that use multiple openstack services. | 20:39 |
| thingee | I think it would be productive to collect that information. | 20:39 |
| annegentle | lots of the work to date has been "what do we have here" | 20:39 |
| edleafe | thingee: it | 20:39 |
| dhellmann | do we need an assert:complies-with-api-guidelines tag? | 20:39 |
| ttx | or "this is how you should do it if you start a new one" ? | 20:39 |
| edleafe | thingee: it's also because the APIs are already in use | 20:39 |
| annegentle | jeblair: ++ | 20:39 |
| sdague | dhellmann: probably | 20:39 |
| thingee | edleafe: people like to wave hands about micro versioning nowadays | 20:39 |
| jeblair | it's also seemingly non-critical enough that if we say "this is the way" and nova takes 3 years to get there, we'll survive. | 20:40 |
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| annegentle | I've worked with this group and they are super considerate and user-thinkers. | 20:40 |
| anteaya | annegentle: how nice | 20:40 |
| edleafe | thingee: well, they are doing a *little* more than just hand-waving :) | 20:40 |
| jbryce | dhellmann: i like that idea | 20:40 |
| dhellmann | I'm sure all of the guidelines are fine, I just wonder how we "enforce" it | 20:40 |
| jroll | thingee: well, this thread has a good example of where microversioning doesn't help, because it aims to change the headers used for those versions | 20:40 |
| edleafe | jeblair: ++ | 20:40 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: yeah, and that tag could cover "beyond defcore" that we run into all the time | 20:40 |
| thingee | edleafe: I say that to avoid people attacking me on that being the end all solution for us to evolve in having consistent apis | 20:40 |
| ttx | yeah, I don't mind slow progress as long as it's going in the right direction. Creating a new API from scratch that deliberately ignores guidelines would be the opposite of progress. | 20:40 |
| jroll | thingee: which breaks *everything* :) | 20:40 |
| sdague | well, I actually don't like the experimental guideline at all. :) | 20:40 |
| dtroyer | nova being different because it was first is really a non-issue. things were learned and that knowledge being formed for further use is the important part | 20:40 |
| jeblair | dtroyer: ++ | 20:41 |
| markmcclain | rights seems like we should formally grant exceptions to existing code, but push a requirement and expectation that new APIs be compliant | 20:41 |
| devananda | nova isn't the only one - some other services followed nova's lead already | 20:41 |
| jroll | devananda: yep | 20:41 |
| edleafe | thingee: there are no magic pills that will cure all ills. But adding microversions will at least allow for sane growth | 20:42 |
| devananda | and as jroll said, changing the header name for an existing service breaks things badly. {micro}versions don't help | 20:42 |
| thingee | ttx: if the TC was to police this, we're going back to involving the TC having to dig deep into api design, which I think was part of the benefits of big tent | 20:42 |
| jeblair | it will take a long time to get horses back into the barn, but in the mean time, maybe close the door so any more don't get out. | 20:42 |
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| flaper87 | jeblair: ++ | 20:42 |
| edleafe | devananda: true - that's where parallel headers will be needed if we want to change | 20:42 |
| markmcclain | jeblair: ++ | 20:42 |
| jbryce | jeblair: i like horse and barn analogies | 20:42 |
| thingee | or perhaps the api wg wouldn't mind informing the tc of the state new applications' current apis | 20:42 |
| annegentle | thingee: I saw the API WG formation as helping the TC with API design -- offloading and spreading the detailed work. | 20:42 |
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| thingee | annegentle: +1 :D | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | annegentle : ++ | 20:42 |
| ttx | thingee: Ideally we would not police, if we go the assertion route, it would be the project opting in, into compliance | 20:43 |
| edleafe | annegentle: yes! | 20:43 |
| cdent | that's pretty much exactly how we think of it (within the group) | 20:43 |
| annegentle | cdent: yep | 20:43 |
| ttx | and likely the API WG telling us about projects not living up to their tags | 20:43 |
| annegentle | cdent: heh do we imagine becoming a tagging force tho? | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | ttx: it seems like the API WG should manage the tag application | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | ttx: teams that want the tag can ask them to add it? | 20:44 |
| ttx | dhellmann: then it would be some tag maintained by the WG, not a project assertion about themselves | 20:44 |
| cdent | annegentle: elmiko and I discussed at summit about being able to come up with a compliance test, and had some ideas, but didn't make a lot of progress | 20:44 |
| dhellmann | which triggers a review of the api | 20:44 |
| dhellmann | ttx: exactly | 20:44 |
| elmiko | o/ | 20:44 |
| thingee | Ok, so as I said in the thread, it would be great if TC could take a stance on this with new applications. And yes, use the api wg for being informed on new projects. | 20:44 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I'm fine with that | 20:44 |
| dhellmann | ttx: so a different name? | 20:44 |
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| thingee | existing projects, it would be great if we can understand the problem space. | 20:44 |
| dhellmann | api-wg:complies-with-guidelines | 20:44 |
| devananda | edleafe, thingee: any service that would be asked to change the header name will need to carry both headers until such time as they are willing to completely drop support for today's client libraries. | 20:44 |
| thingee | otherwise it's just looked at as an impossible problem | 20:44 |
| ttx | dhellmann: yeah, same as vulnerability:managed or release:managed | 20:45 |
| devananda | as far as guidelines for new projects, I think what's being discussed here is great | 20:45 |
| dhellmann | ttx: right | 20:45 |
| ttx | dhellmann: +1 | 20:45 |
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| dtroyer | dhellmann: some guidelines? all guidelines? which? that gets messy | 20:45 |
| thingee | devananda: so support both headers, deprecate. | 20:45 |
| sdague | devananda: right, and I think that's going to be nova's plan, just add the additional headers | 20:45 |
| thingee | sdague: +1 | 20:45 |
| dhellmann | dtroyer : I don't think we want one tag per guideline, but I see your point. | 20:45 |
| elmiko | cdent: (assuming you are referring to the example project stuff) i have setup a github repo for the example project and started creating an impl locally | 20:45 |
| dtroyer | me either | 20:45 |
| edleafe | devananda: a service might *want* to change its header. The old one may be dropped in the future, or it may hang around forever | 20:45 |
| sdague | thingee: the deprecate is weird, you kind of have to keep them all forever | 20:45 |
| ttx | dtroyer: they should probably have a pack of minimal requirements that they would tie to the tag | 20:45 |
| thingee | sdague: sure, just don't document it anymore then | 20:46 |
| thingee | people will forget, but yeah that seems fair | 20:46 |
| sdague | thingee: you have to | 20:46 |
| sdague | there are liberty clouds | 20:46 |
| sdague | that only work with it | 20:46 |
| thingee | fair | 20:46 |
| dhellmann | ttx: right, or if they can be categorized in some useful ways maybe a small number of more descriptive tags | 20:46 |
| edleafe | thingee: people may forget, but exiting tools won't | 20:46 |
| thingee | edleafe: how active are these tools then? | 20:46 |
| ttx | ok so we should recommen | 20:46 |
| sdague | but not only that, there are deployed public clouds. We need the API to work with any cloud, that was kind of the point :) | 20:47 |
| ttx | d the API wg comes up with their own tag or set of tags to describe levels of compliance | 20:47 |
| edleafe | thingee: no one really knows. | 20:47 |
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| edleafe | They don't all self-identify | 20:47 |
| annegentle | tag:has-awful-mulitple-POST-request-bodies | 20:47 |
| devananda | sdague: exactly. keep both headers indefinitely is the only path that makes sense to me here | 20:47 |
| sdague | deciding to break that for the sake of consistency isn't a valid trade off, just when we are making gains on interop | 20:47 |
| dhellmann | annegentle : +2 | 20:47 |
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| edleafe | thingee: when I was at Rackspace I had a hell of a time getting usage metrics for the SDKs | 20:47 |
| jeblair | generous in what you accept and strict in what you send | 20:48 |
| sdague | anyway, is there a particular ask here? | 20:48 |
| dhellmann | devananda, edleafe, thingee, sdague : I don't think we need or want to solve the specific issue in this meeting | 20:48 |
| ttx | thingee: to answer your question ideally we would look at this before approving new service projects | 20:48 |
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| sdague | dhellmann: yeh, I was trying to regroup about what the ask or concern is for us to address | 20:48 |
| edleafe | dhellmann: sure, but it is helpful to air the concerns of the different approaches | 20:48 |
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| annegentle | dhellmann: yeah. I think the ask is of the API WG if they see tags as a decent way to measure/apply standards adherence | 20:48 |
| dhellmann | sdague : you hit enter before I did :-) | 20:48 |
| annegentle | was that even a sentence? | 20:48 |
| thingee | dhellmann: you're right. I only cared about this being something the TC takes a stance on going from recommending to enforcing. If it's just new projects, sure that's a great step | 20:48 |
| dhellmann | edleafe : the API WG can deal with the details | 20:49 |
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| ttx | but it's really easier for the API WG to keep track of their set of rules and judge how far a project is | 20:49 |
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| ttx | thingee: it's also about not regressing in existing projects | 20:49 |
| dhellmann | right, we have people looking at this already, and we have a system for tracking the results in the governance repo. let's use them. | 20:49 |
| cdent | the issue, from the standpoint of the group is how to have some teeth | 20:50 |
| cdent | an "official tag" is probably the hammer we have at the moment | 20:50 |
| ttx | OK, let's continue on that thread, I had a few other points to touch on | 20:50 |
| ttx | * Competition vs. user experience | 20:50 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-January/085041.html | 20:50 |
| ttx | Jay raises a number of interesting points about how allowing competition without any restriction resulted in a crappy user experience | 20:50 |
| ttx | I'd like us to think about ways to fix that | 20:51 |
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| dhellmann | now? | 20:51 |
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| ttx | oh no :) | 20:52 |
| sdague | cdent: honestly, I expect teeth are less likely to drive consistency than helping hands | 20:52 |
| dhellmann | :-) | 20:52 |
| ttx | I think it's a great topic though | 20:52 |
| anteaya | sdague: I think a combination is useful | 20:52 |
| cdent | sdague: I think it depends a great deal on where in a project's lifecycle any project is | 20:52 |
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| ttx | and wouldn't mind a temperature read from the room on it | 20:52 |
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| thingee | sdague: would you agree the guidelines the api wg have created are helping hands? Is it working? | 20:52 |
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| * flaper87 replied to that thread | 20:52 | |
| anteaya | ttx: user experience is important | 20:52 |
| flaper87 | I think it's a good one | 20:52 |
| ttx | I'm fine with competition as long as it doesn't result in unnecessary duplication of effort, and crappy user experience | 20:53 |
| flaper87 | we should add it for next week's meeting. Hopefully Jay will be around | 20:53 |
| * annegentle ponders | 20:53 | |
| annegentle | yeah I'd like some think time on that | 20:53 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I've been struggling to find a way to say that projects have to have completely unique APIs that don't include their project name in them. As soon as we drop to generic terms, we get back into the "who owns $feature_space" question | 20:53 |
| sdague | thingee: helping hands as in hands helping get the code in line | 20:53 |
| jaypipes | flaper87: sorry, I am around now... | 20:53 |
| cdent | I spoke with jay about this topic some over the weekend | 20:53 |
| jaypipes | in London at hotel... | 20:53 |
| cdent | ah there he is now | 20:53 |
| sdague | ttx: right, so the backups service type issue is a real issue | 20:53 |
| ttx | dhellmann: no I agree it's a tricky balance | 20:53 |
| ttx | sdague: the /alarms example is pretty appalling too | 20:54 |
| thingee | sdague: sure. I don't think know if the api wg liaisons help organize that for their respected projects. | 20:54 |
| sdague | we kind of need a registered namespace | 20:54 |
| dtroyer | we have this problem in other areas too, and we have to… sdague, yes, that | 20:54 |
| dhellmann | is this something for a new group to manage? or the api-wg? | 20:54 |
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| sdague | this, honestly, starts really getting into the service catalog space | 20:55 |
| jaypipes | dhellmann: I think the API-WG is the correct group for this | 20:55 |
| ttx | I don't think we need competition that much. I think we need ways to replace projects with better alternatives over the long run | 20:55 |
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| devananda | ttx: ++ | 20:55 |
| sdague | which could be api-wg, or not. But our own ianal is going to be important | 20:55 |
| cdent | sdague: I think it is definitely a service catalog issue | 20:55 |
| sdague | that being said... | 20:55 |
| barrett1 | ttx: +1 | 20:55 |
| annegentle | cdent: so we're already working on reserved names in the service catalog | 20:55 |
| flaper87 | ttx: fwiw, that's exactly what I've been pushing for since we started talking about the big tent. +1 | 20:55 |
| sdague | we don't freak out about .../action | 20:55 |
| ttx | the easy way to do that is to allow competition, but that opens a whole can of UX worms | 20:55 |
| thingee | dhellmann: +1 very similar to the cross-project spec liaisons. They may not be the person to do the work, but they work with their respected group to prioritize things | 20:55 |
| cdent | annegentle++ | 20:55 |
| annegentle | cdent: with extra data if you really need it as a provider | 20:56 |
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| annegentle | but the actual resources, I have to think on that. Endpoint+resource. | 20:56 |
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| thingee | dhellmann: I don't know if this works though. cp-spec liaison is so new, and getting volunteers for cross-project efforts is , well.. | 20:56 |
| jaypipes | sdague: /action is under a sub-resource, not a top-level resource endpoints overlap. | 20:56 |
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| dhellmann | jaypipes , sdague : who owns the service catalog registry? | 20:56 |
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| flaper87 | ttx: or mmh, probably I misread you :P | 20:56 |
| sdague | dhellmann: that's a very good question | 20:56 |
| dhellmann | thingee : I suspect we'll also end up adding a new project requirement that they have their endpoint registered | 20:57 |
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| sdague | it could be either the api-wg or the tc directly | 20:57 |
| jeblair | we do? or we delegate a group? | 20:57 |
| annegentle | how do we enable an ecosystem if the experience sucks, I get it. but who gets to "keep" generic resources like alarms, meters, backups, archives, and so on | 20:57 |
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| dhellmann | jeblair : ultimately we own it, but who's going to actually do the work? | 20:57 |
| jeblair | we can put a yaml file in governance | 20:57 |
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| sdague | so, something to consider, we have service types | 20:58 |
| sdague | which is already a namespace | 20:58 |
| annegentle | jeblair: that's what we have for service catalog | 20:58 |
| ttx | I think it's a hard problem, and we definitely won't solve it in the next 2 min. | 20:58 |
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| annegentle | right:) | 20:58 |
| sdague | and that I think we can have a real register for (we don't quite yet) | 20:58 |
| jaypipes | heh, tru nuf | 20:58 |
| dhellmann | sdague: good point. so all URLs need to start with the servide type? | 20:58 |
| ttx | But we should definitely think and talk about it more over the coming weeks | 20:58 |
| sdague | dhellmann: they would if they were on the same web server | 20:58 |
| ttx | Last topic I wanted to quickly mention, the mission statement situation | 20:59 |
| dhellmann | sdague : might as well always do it | 20:59 |
| ttx | russellb started a thread on the foundation ML, which turned a bit into bikeshedding as expected | 20:59 |
| russellb | indeed | 20:59 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/foundation/2016-February/002263.html | 20:59 |
| sdague | dhellmann: that breaks 100% of our ecosystem ... | 20:59 |
| ttx | Please chime in if you care. | 20:59 |
| russellb | we did say in the board meeting that if we can't decide on anything, we'll just approve what the TC already proposed | 20:59 |
| * russellb shrugs | 20:59 | |
| devananda | ttx: if endpoint registration becomes the new blessing of officialdom, then the TC ends up where we were pre-big-tent | 20:59 |
| flaper87 | russellb: ++ | 20:59 |
| dhellmann | sdague : all in? :-) | 20:59 |
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| annegentle | russellb: heh nice | 20:59 |
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| ttx | devananda: yeah, I'm not sold on that solution either | 20:59 |
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| sdague | devananda: to get a service type? I don't see how that's incompatible with the big tent | 21:00 |
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| ttx | sdague: at the very least you would get some first mover advantage | 21:00 |
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| ttx | anyway, we are past time | 21:01 |
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| ttx | Thanks everyone! | 21:01 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 2 21:01:20 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-02-02-20.01.html | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-02-02-20.01.txt | 21:01 |
| barrett1 | ttx: On the mission topic, I don't see bikeshedding. Rather discussion to insure the mission can be understood by someone without a long OpenStack History | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-02-02-20.01.log.html | 21:01 |
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| ttx | barrett1: Let me correct myself, I mean "a large number of slightly different suggestions with none of them gathering enough support" | 21:03 |
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| ttx | yet | 21:03 |
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| dims_ | Since a lot of movers and shakers are here on this channel :) - Here' vkmc's call for ideas and mentors for GSoC if you missed the email - http://markmail.org/message/vzvwwbct2pa6fjst | 21:04 |
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