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| yamamoto | hi | 07:03 |
|---|---|---|
| yamamoto | #startmeeting networking_midonet | 07:04 |
| yamamoto | #startmeeting networking_midonet | 07:05 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 9 07:05:46 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is yamamoto. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 07:05 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 07:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:05 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking_midonet' | 07:05 |
| yamamoto | #topic Agena | 07:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Agena (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:06 | |
| yamamoto | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NetworkingMidoNet agenda | 07:06 |
| yamamoto | #topic Announcements | 07:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:06 | |
| yamamoto | icehouse and juno branches are now marked EOL and removed | 07:06 |
| yamamoto | #topic Bugs | 07:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:07 | |
| yamamoto | we don't have any new high prio bugs | 07:07 |
| yamamoto | i wonder if it makes much sense to have bug deputy "rotation" while there's only single volunteer (me) | 07:08 |
| yamamoto | anyway i'll continue it this week | 07:09 |
| yamamoto | #topic Open Discussion | 07:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:09 | |
| * yamamoto waiting for a few mins before ending meeting | 07:10 | |
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| yamamoto | bye | 07:21 |
| yamamoto | #endmeeting | 07:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 07:21 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 9 07:21:31 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 07:21 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-02-09-07.05.html | 07:21 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-02-09-07.05.txt | 07:21 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-02-09-07.05.log.html | 07:21 |
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| anteaya | #startmeeting third-party | 08:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 9 08:01:31 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 08:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 08:01 |
| anteaya | hello | 08:01 |
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| lennyb_ | hey | 08:01 |
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| anteaya | hey lennyb_ | 08:01 |
| lennyb_ | how are you today? | 08:02 |
| anteaya | wanted to put in the logs that you offered to do both third-party meetings next week, Monday at 15:00 and Tuesday at 8:00 utc | 08:02 |
| anteaya | so thank you for that | 08:02 |
| lennyb_ | np | 08:02 |
| anteaya | I'm good thanks | 08:02 |
| anteaya | how about yourself? | 08:02 |
| lennyb_ | I am fine, thanks | 08:02 |
| anteaya | wonderful | 08:03 |
| anteaya | anything you want to disucuss in this meeting? | 08:03 |
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| lennyb_ | not really | 08:04 |
| anteaya | okay thank you | 08:04 |
| anteaya | I don't have anything either right now | 08:04 |
| lennyb_ | ok, 'see' you in two weeks. | 08:05 |
| anteaya | thanks | 08:05 |
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| anteaya | any objection to me closing the meeting? | 08:10 |
| lennyb_ | nope | 08:10 |
| anteaya | thanks | 08:10 |
| anteaya | #endmeeting | 08:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 08:10 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 9 08:10:43 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 08:10 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-02-09-08.01.html | 08:10 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-02-09-08.01.txt | 08:10 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-02-09-08.01.log.html | 08:10 |
| anteaya | thanks lennyb_ | 08:10 |
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| sdague | who is around for the nova-api meeting? | 12:07 |
| gmann_ | o/ | 12:07 |
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| sdague | #startmeeting nova-api | 12:08 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 9 12:08:07 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sdague. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 12:08 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 12:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova-api)" | 12:08 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_api' | 12:08 |
| jichen | o/ | 12:08 |
| sdague | so it's a holiday in china so probably a short meeting today | 12:09 |
| sdague | agenda - https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NovaAPI | 12:09 |
| gmann_ | sdague: yea | 12:09 |
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| jichen | ok | 12:10 |
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| sdague | there are no open actions I can see from last meeting | 12:10 |
| sdague | I'm going to just jump us to open discussion | 12:10 |
| sdague | #topic Open Discussion | 12:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: nova-api)" | 12:10 | |
| sdague | what are the burning issues that people have at the moment | 12:10 |
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| gmann_ | sdague: yea. | 12:11 |
| sdague | https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/api/openstack/compute/scheduler_hints.py#L34-L37 is on the list | 12:11 |
| gmann_ | sdague: yea | 12:11 |
| sdague | gmann_: which I think is your question | 12:11 |
| gmann_ | sdague: not this actually. this bug - https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1539351 | 12:12 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1539351 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "Authorization by user_id does not work in V2.1 API" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to jichenjc (jichenjc) | 12:12 |
| gmann_ | sdague: oh yea for sch hint a spec we expected. | 12:12 |
| gmann_ | as per jichen that bug might be in all actions? | 12:12 |
| jichen | yes, most actions , I think , at least from my test result | 12:13 |
| sdague | ok on the auth by user_id bug - https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1539351 - I wonder what the keystone folks feel about that | 12:13 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1539351 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "Authorization by user_id does not work in V2.1 API" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to jichenjc (jichenjc) | 12:13 |
| sdague | because as mtreinish said during a tempest thread on this, blocking by user_id is pretty unexpected | 12:13 |
| gmann_ | sdague: yea just read that mail. | 12:14 |
| sdague | perhaps we should have the bigger conversation around that | 12:14 |
| jichen | in the mail list? | 12:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | so the only thing this triggered for me was key_pair were we do restrict by user_id | 12:14 |
| gmann_ | sdague: yea i also feel so, tenant isolation was ok but with user id still needs to think more | 12:15 |
| sdague | jichen: yeh | 12:15 |
| gmann_ | johnthetubaguy: yea with 2.10, we manage with user-id | 12:15 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: keypair makes some sense there | 12:15 |
| sdague | yeh, I don't know | 12:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, I think keypair defaults to per_user, as I understand it | 12:16 |
| sdague | right | 12:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | its the one odd bit | 12:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | I don't like the idea of us supporting the other things | 12:16 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: ok, perhaps then respond on the nova bug ML thread with that | 12:16 |
| sdague | I'm kind of fine saying that's not supported | 12:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | although if we had hierarchical tenancy working better, I would feel better about blocking that | 12:16 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, I should give that some thought and respond | 12:17 |
| sdague | ok, so lets assume we aren't going to support it | 12:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, its a spec, etc, if thats wanted anyways | 12:18 |
| sdague | #info we do not intend to support arbitrary user_id permission in the API any more | 12:18 |
| gmann_ | sdague: johnthetubaguy +1 | 12:18 |
| sdague | #action johnthetubaguy to respond on mailing list | 12:18 |
| sdague | ok, other open discussion topics? | 12:19 |
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| jichen | ok | 12:19 |
| sdague | I have one about tempest / microverion testing for Nova as there is some overlap here | 12:19 |
| gmann_ | sdague: ok | 12:20 |
| sdague | ok, lets talk about Tempest testing for Nova microversions | 12:20 |
| sdague | when we landed 2.20 we really wanted some testing of it for real, it impacts volumes & shelved instances | 12:20 |
| sdague | I thought the tempest infrastructure was there, but it's really not | 12:21 |
| sdague | gmann_: are you working on that infrastructure? or do you know who is? | 12:21 |
| gmann_ | sdague: yea, i am done with infrastructure. | 12:21 |
| sdague | because I had an idea of a simpler way to deal with it instead of all the passing through layers | 12:21 |
| sdague | gmann_: ok, it doesn't work | 12:21 |
| gmann_ | sdague: all patches are merged and v2.2 are on gate | 12:22 |
| sdague | it really doesn't work | 12:22 |
| gmann_ | sdague: oh, i did not get | 12:22 |
| sdague | I don't know how v2.2 is working | 12:22 |
| sdague | because I definitely could never get a header sent in 2.20 | 12:22 |
| sdague | anyway | 12:22 |
| gmann_ | sdague: you mean for v2.20? | 12:22 |
| sdague | yes | 12:23 |
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| gmann_ | sdague: yea that is not yet supported | 12:23 |
| sdague | gmann_: I don't know what that means | 12:23 |
| gmann_ | sdague: sorry, i missed. all compute service clients are not in suport yet | 12:23 |
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| gmann_ | sdague: due to tempest-lib | 12:23 |
| gmann_ | sdague: only keypair client is supprted for microversion | 12:23 |
| sdague | ok, so it seems like this is more complicated than it should be | 12:23 |
| sdague | because the assumption is that software will be written so that nova microversion is a hard coded constant in it | 12:24 |
| gmann_ | sdague: but for making all compute service client working for microversion, i just need to migrate framework in lib | 12:24 |
| gmann_ | sdague: and change the base class for all service cleints | 12:24 |
| sdague | so, tempest_lib should just have COMPUTE_MICROVERSION | 12:24 |
| gmann_ | sdague: just 3 patch | 12:24 |
| sdague | and have a fixture in tempest that sets it | 12:24 |
| sdague | instead of instrumenting every single tempest-lib client | 12:25 |
| gmann_ | sdague: ok, that i can change, currently its is had coded in base compute client | 12:25 |
| sdague | gmann_: right, and there is all that work to pass things through | 12:25 |
| sdague | that just seems like a lot of effort | 12:25 |
| sdague | and will have to be set everywhere | 12:25 |
| gmann_ | sdague: yea but still we need to add microversion in header on lib side | 12:26 |
| sdague | because if we need a tempest_lib release to test a new microverion, that's a failure of the system | 12:26 |
| sdague | gmann_: right, but we'll do that at the def request level | 12:26 |
| gmann_ | sdague: like https://github.com/openstack/tempest/blob/master/tempest/services/base_microversion_client.py#L47 | 12:26 |
| gmann_ | sdague: yea | 12:27 |
| gmann_ | at request level not in al client | 12:27 |
| sdague | right, but api_microversion should not be an instance variable | 12:27 |
| sdague | it should be a global | 12:27 |
| sdague | and change it with a fixture if you want to | 12:27 |
| gmann_ | sdague: but as long as service client are in lib we still need to change them due to new API param etc | 12:27 |
| sdague | if it's a new parameter | 12:28 |
| sdague | it's not always | 12:28 |
| gmann_ | sdague: yea not always | 12:28 |
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| gmann_ | sdague: as we are thinking to move lib interfaces to tempest, that would be fine | 12:28 |
| sdague | sure | 12:28 |
| sdague | anyway, the amount of work to support new microversions in tempest right now is far too high, we need to figure out how to do this better otherwise no one is going to test these | 12:29 |
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| gmann_ | sdague: that microversion variable only changed by tempest from tests case selection | 12:29 |
| gmann_ | sdague: humm | 12:29 |
| sdague | ok, let's take this over to #qa after this meeting | 12:30 |
| gmann_ | sdague: adding for v2.10 too - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/277763/ | 12:30 |
| gmann_ | sdague: sure. | 12:30 |
| sdague | ok, any other topics? | 12:30 |
| sdague | ok, we'll call it a meeting. Thanks folks | 12:31 |
| sdague | #endmeeting | 12:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 12:31 | |
| gmann_ | sdague: Thanks. | 12:31 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 9 12:31:11 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 12:31 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2016/nova_api.2016-02-09-12.08.html | 12:31 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2016/nova_api.2016-02-09-12.08.txt | 12:31 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2016/nova_api.2016-02-09-12.08.log.html | 12:31 |
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| jichen | thanks | 12:34 |
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| jasondotstar | #startmeeting openstack_salt | 16:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 9 16:02:12 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jasondotstar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:02 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack_salt)" | 16:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_salt' | 16:02 |
| jasondotstar | #topic roll call | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: openstack_salt)" | 16:02 | |
| jasondotstar | o/ | 16:02 |
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| cznewt | o/ | 16:02 |
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| jasondotstar | hi cznewt | 16:03 |
| cznewt | hello jasondotstar | 16:03 |
| jasondotstar | #topic Introduction | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Introduction (Meeting topic: openstack_salt)" | 16:03 | |
| jasondotstar | this is the meeting for the openstack-salt team | 16:03 |
| jasondotstar | If you're interested in contributing to the discussion, please join #openstack-salt | 16:03 |
| jasondotstar | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/#OpenStack_Salt_Team_Meeting | 16:04 |
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| genunix | o/ | 16:04 |
| jasondotstar | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/openstack-salt | 16:04 |
| cznewt | hello geneneric unix unit | 16:04 |
| jasondotstar | hi genunix | 16:04 |
| genunix | :-) Hello | 16:04 |
| jasondotstar | #topic Review past action items | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review past action items (Meeting topic: openstack_salt)" | 16:04 | |
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| jasondotstar | genunix to research how to openstack packaging works | 16:05 |
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| jasondotstar | any status? | 16:05 |
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| genunix | jasondotstar: not much. I have read some docs but didn't find much useful things, it's not much unified. | 16:07 |
| jasondotstar | very well, we're carry it over | 16:07 |
| genunix | So current conclusion is - try to contact some openstack package maintainer | 16:07 |
| genunix | and ask about how to get our formulas to Debian | 16:07 |
| jasondotstar | #action genunix to continue openstack packaging research | 16:07 |
| jasondotstar | next: jasondotstar to look at the integration of launchpad with our repos | 16:08 |
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| jasondotstar | not much movement here either. I'll need to move this one fwd :-( | 16:08 |
| cznewt | yes integration with launchpad bugs is iportant to set | 16:08 |
| cznewt | so we can keep track of upcoming development | 16:08 |
| jasondotstar | #action jasondotstar to look at the integration of launchpad with our repos (bug triage, tracking, etc.) *important* | 16:09 |
| cznewt | as there are already some areas to tackle [vanilla neutron] | 16:09 |
| cznewt | +1 | 16:09 |
| jasondotstar | +1 | 16:09 |
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| jasondotstar | ok next one: | 16:09 |
| jasondotstar | jasondotstar to look into dev environment sponsorship | 16:09 |
| jasondotstar | so we were just talking about this | 16:09 |
| jasondotstar | from my understanding | 16:09 |
| jasondotstar | this request is to have a cloud-based dev environment | 16:10 |
| jasondotstar | for functionally testing the services that our salt formulas will deploy | 16:10 |
| cznewt | yes, the heat-based both single / cluster deployments | 16:10 |
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| jasondotstar | +1 | 16:10 |
| cznewt | of openstack control clusters + few computes to test | 16:10 |
| jasondotstar | this is beyond the local dev environment | 16:10 |
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| jasondotstar | i posed a question to the -infra team | 16:11 |
| jasondotstar | and they made a couple suggestions | 16:11 |
| jasondotstar | 1- use trystack | 16:11 |
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| jasondotstar | the only problem with trystack is the resources terminate after 24 hours | 16:11 |
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| cznewt | We can setup more permament labs at tcpcloud | 16:12 |
| jasondotstar | i don't know if we can rely on an environment like that in sustenance | 16:12 |
| jasondotstar | +1 | 16:12 |
| cznewt | it's possible to run up to 10 labs at once | 16:12 |
| jasondotstar | the other option is to use an employer based environment | 16:12 |
| jasondotstar | so yes, we may have to rely on tcpcloud | 16:13 |
| jasondotstar | the other thing we need to eventually thing about is gating | 16:13 |
| cznewt | there can be more lab environments to test | 16:13 |
| jasondotstar | beyond linting | 16:13 |
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| jasondotstar | example: puppet uses the beaker gate, to functionally test the service deployed with puppet by launching a couple VMs (one debian based, one rpm based) | 16:14 |
| cznewt | yes I'd like that as well | 16:14 |
| jasondotstar | to ensure the service works | 16:14 |
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| cznewt | yes exactly system testing is missing in out setup now | 16:14 |
| cznewt | to automate this is +2 for me | 16:14 |
| jasondotstar | right | 16:14 |
| jasondotstar | #agreed functional testing like beaker is required to achieve gating beyond linting | 16:15 |
| cznewt | I can look at beaker gates and how to get it into salt world | 16:15 |
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| jasondotstar | #action cznewt to look at beaker gates and how to fold into the salt workflow | 16:16 |
| jasondotstar | #action cznewt to look at beaker gates and how to fold a similar process into the salt workflow | 16:16 |
| jasondotstar | any other thoughts on this | 16:17 |
| jasondotstar | ? | 16:17 |
| cznewt | not to this topis | 16:17 |
| jasondotstar | ok | 16:17 |
| cznewt | *topic | 16:17 |
| cznewt | another issue is the documentation, it is not | 16:17 |
| cznewt | building for some time, but we are working on fixing it | 16:17 |
| cznewt | as it moved to the openstack namespace | 16:18 |
| cznewt | question off topic: if you abandon change in gerrit, can you revert this? | 16:18 |
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| clarkb | yes | 16:19 |
| jasondotstar | yes | 16:19 |
| cznewt | I have much to learn :) | 16:19 |
| jasondotstar | newt test the aio/ha openstack-salt heat setup | 16:20 |
| cznewt | the other issue is to try access to development environemnts from various platforms [ie mac] | 16:20 |
| jasondotstar | 'access to dev environments' <- what do you mean? | 16:20 |
| cznewt | the heat clients, the vagrant installs | 16:21 |
| cznewt | it is working on linux | 16:21 |
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| cznewt | but we need to test it works on win/mac as well | 16:21 |
| jasondotstar | ah | 16:21 |
| cznewt | it should :) | 16:22 |
| jasondotstar | windows I can see us working on - mac i'm not sure | 16:22 |
| cznewt | you have mac, right? | 16:22 |
| jasondotstar | are we talking local dev | 16:22 |
| jasondotstar | or a managed cloud enviroment (i.e. lab) | 16:22 |
| jasondotstar | ? | 16:22 |
| cznewt | local for vagrant, remote for heat, but you still have your laptop as heat client | 16:22 |
| jasondotstar | oh i c. | 16:23 |
| cznewt | i'd prefer we can support both cases, but i'd primarily focus on cloud based deploys | 16:23 |
| cznewt | jasondotstar: what do you think? | 16:23 |
| cznewt | as the vagrant is limited by local resources | 16:24 |
| jasondotstar | perhaps we can take a look at having mac-based heat clients, but i think it's more important to concentrate on fully standing up the services on linux #1, windows #2 | 16:24 |
| cznewt | +1 | 16:25 |
| cznewt | I can test the linux client side, do you have anyone around with M$ win who is willing to test? | 16:26 |
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| jasondotstar | not right off | 16:27 |
| jasondotstar | something to think about | 16:27 |
| cznewt | well we need some viretual windows then :) | 16:27 |
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| cznewt | and that's somethin we have in saltstack-training lab :) | 16:27 |
| jasondotstar | #action consider testing deployments to windows-based clients | 16:27 |
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| jasondotstar | ok | 16:29 |
| cznewt | #action cznewt get the first cloud based labs for openstack-salt testing fully operational | 16:29 |
| jasondotstar | i think we can move on, we can chat more about this in chan. | 16:29 |
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| jasondotstar | #topic Today's Agenda | 16:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Today's Agenda (Meeting topic: openstack_salt)" | 16:30 | |
| cznewt | yes, the salt community | 16:30 |
| jasondotstar | Salt community involve, no response: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/salt-users/v3PQDfRgtmk | 16:30 |
| jasondotstar | cznewt: yes, thanks for engaging the salt community on this topic | 16:30 |
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| jasondotstar | do we anticipate a response soon? | 16:31 |
| cznewt | I have contant to Nitin Madhok who is saltstack merger | 16:31 |
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| cznewt | we met in Tokio and discussed for a while, I'll let him know of our endeavour and ask him for participation as well | 16:32 |
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| cznewt | he can probably help us to the right path | 16:33 |
| jasondotstar | cznewt: interesting. i did the same :-) | 16:33 |
| jasondotstar | cznewt: a few weeks ago | 16:33 |
| jasondotstar | but that was before we combined our efforts | 16:33 |
| jasondotstar | cool. we'll see if he can help | 16:33 |
| cznewt | well I typed him in December and did not get any reply | 16:33 |
| jasondotstar | cznewt: same here. I've yet to hear back from him | 16:34 |
| cznewt | but it is different topics now | 16:34 |
| jasondotstar | right | 16:34 |
| jasondotstar | #action continue to engage the salt community regarding our standardizing dependencies, packaging, versioning, and testing | 16:35 |
| jasondotstar | i've yet to finish my dev environment setup :-( | 16:35 |
| jasondotstar | I'm going to clear my plate today | 16:36 |
| jasondotstar | and work on this. | 16:36 |
| cznewt | yes, I'd love that and to assist | 16:36 |
| jasondotstar | #action jasondotstar to complete local dev testing setup | 16:36 |
| jasondotstar | cznewt: +1 | 16:36 |
| cznewt | whatever issues comes, exept weird ruby/vagrant errors | 16:37 |
| cznewt | that were tricky :) | 16:37 |
| jasondotstar | hehehe | 16:37 |
| jasondotstar | yeah | 16:37 |
| jasondotstar | i got a couple weird ones | 16:37 |
| jasondotstar | but I'll keep pushing on it. | 16:37 |
| jasondotstar | ok, any other pressing topics? | 16:37 |
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| jasondotstar | if not, i wanted to bring up the question that's being asked right now in -infra | 16:38 |
| cznewt | I think we went over all pressing topics for now | 16:38 |
| jasondotstar | cool. | 16:38 |
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| jasondotstar | so did you see the qn in -infra | 16:38 |
| jasondotstar | regarding the stackforge/salt projects? | 16:38 |
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| jasondotstar | basically the issue is we have the new projects | 16:40 |
| jasondotstar | that are under the openstack/ namespace | 16:40 |
| jasondotstar | and there are existing salt projects | 16:40 |
| jasondotstar | under the stackforge/ namespace | 16:41 |
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| cznewt | I looked these | 16:41 |
| jasondotstar | i.e, we have stackforge/nova-salt-formula and openstack/salt-formula-nova | 16:41 |
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| jasondotstar | cznewt: what did you make if these? I've not looked at them | 16:41 |
| jasondotstar | *of | 16:41 |
| cznewt | and they don't look good at all | 16:41 |
| cznewt | more like empty shells | 16:41 |
| jasondotstar | ok | 16:41 |
| jasondotstar | so the stackforge/ ones are outated | 16:42 |
| cznewt | for example look at this https://github.com/stackforge/neutron-salt-formula/commits/master | 16:42 |
| jasondotstar | right nothing there. | 16:42 |
| jasondotstar | so we need to prune these | 16:42 |
| cznewt | and they have 'We are retired' in the README | 16:42 |
| jasondotstar | +1 | 16:42 |
| cznewt | yes, obsolete stugg | 16:42 |
| jasondotstar | i see that | 16:42 |
| cznewt | yes, obsolete stuff | 16:42 |
| jasondotstar | ok so, I can work on pruning these | 16:42 |
| jasondotstar | #action jasondotstar to work on pruning the salt formula projects underneath the stackforge/ namespace | 16:43 |
| jasondotstar | i told them that the ones we're migrating from the tcpcloud github repo(s) are house the updated code. | 16:43 |
| jasondotstar | s/are// | 16:44 |
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| cznewt | yes, thanks, the more interesting will be merging with official salt formulas, as the metadata approach varies a little | 16:45 |
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| jasondotstar | +1 | 16:47 |
| jasondotstar | ok any other items | 16:48 |
| jasondotstar | ? | 16:48 |
| jasondotstar | we'll topic switch | 16:48 |
| jasondotstar | #topic Open Discussion | 16:48 |
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| cznewt | I needed some time to reply to the infra guys | 16:50 |
| jasondotstar | cznewt: yeah | 16:50 |
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| jasondotstar | i think we'll end up getting rid of those repos, but we'll see. | 16:51 |
| jasondotstar | ok if nothing else we can give the chan 10 mins back | 16:52 |
| jasondotstar | anything else? | 16:52 |
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| jasondotstar | if not, thanks again team. we'll talk in channel. | 16:52 |
| jasondotstar | cznewt: thx | 16:52 |
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| jasondotstar | genunix: thx | 16:52 |
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| jasondotstar | clarkb: thx | 16:52 |
| jasondotstar | #endmeeting | 16:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:53 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 9 16:53:03 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:53 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_salt/2016/openstack_salt.2016-02-09-16.02.html | 16:53 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_salt/2016/openstack_salt.2016-02-09-16.02.txt | 16:53 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_salt/2016/openstack_salt.2016-02-09-16.02.log.html | 16:53 |
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| asselin_ | #startmeeting third-party | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 9 17:01:38 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is asselin_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 17:01 |
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| asselin_ | who's here for 3rd party ci working group meeting? | 17:01 |
| mmedvede | o/ | 17:02 |
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| asselin_ | hi mmedvede | 17:02 |
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| mmedvede | hi | 17:02 |
| ja3 | [mrs gorilla voice] morning | 17:02 |
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| ja3 | lively crowd here today | 17:03 |
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| mmedvede | hehe, yes we are | 17:03 |
| asselin_ | first, I apologize for not updating the agenda. i've been away on travel for the past week. | 17:03 |
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| asselin_ | so how are things going? | 17:04 |
| ja3 | well if the topics haven't changed much, seems like an efficient tack | 17:04 |
| asselin_ | ok then | 17:04 |
| asselin_ | #topic Announcements | 17:04 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:04 | |
| asselin_ | any announcements? | 17:05 |
| asselin_ | #topic CI Watch | 17:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "CI Watch (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:05 | |
| asselin_ | how's ci watch going? | 17:06 |
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| Swanson | hi | 17:06 |
| mmedvede | eantyshev proposed a good change that got merged and deployed - row selection/filtering | 17:06 |
| asselin_ | hi Swanson | 17:06 |
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| mmedvede | other than that, past couple of weeks I did not have time to spend on ciwatch unit tests | 17:07 |
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| asselin_ | select is very nice! | 17:08 |
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| mmedvede | yes it is. I am also noticing that http://ci-watch.tintri.com gets a little more use, as people refer to it | 17:09 |
| mmedvede | e.g. yesterday during gate failures it was useful | 17:09 |
| asselin_ | I'm noticing that too in irc and mailing list | 17:09 |
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| apoorvad | hi | 17:11 |
| asselin_ | mmedvede, are you waiting on more reviews of the feature/unit tests? | 17:11 |
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| asselin_ | hi apoorvad | 17:11 |
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| mmedvede | asselin_: no, I just did not have time to make more progress on that | 17:12 |
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| mmedvede | maybe my approach is wrong at the moment, I did try to refactor a little to add tests | 17:13 |
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| asselin_ | ok. would it be helpful to carve out some time and work on it as a group? | 17:13 |
| mmedvede | other way would be to add integration test first | 17:13 |
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| asselin_ | can you explain the issue a bit more? | 17:14 |
| mmedvede | asselin_: yes, I would appreciate help. Mostly on how to go about to add the tests | 17:14 |
| mmedvede | sure | 17:15 |
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| mmedvede | if you want to add a unit test, the thing you want to test needs to be reasonably isolated | 17:15 |
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| mmedvede | and the codebase we have is a little intertwined | 17:15 |
| mmedvede | so no adding unit tests without refactoring first | 17:16 |
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| mmedvede | but, adding a high level functional test could be easier | 17:16 |
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| asselin_ | ok I see | 17:16 |
| asselin_ | functional seems more useful initially | 17:16 |
| asselin_ | and would help reduce regressions as we refactor | 17:17 |
| mmedvede | right | 17:17 |
| mmedvede | one case is to test gerrit event getting added to the database | 17:18 |
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| asselin_ | mmedvede, let's setup some time and discuss it offline. Perhaps later today? | 17:21 |
| asselin_ | apoorvad ja3 Swanson, what's your level of interest to join? | 17:21 |
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| apoorvad | asselin_ I will join | 17:21 |
| mmedvede | +1 | 17:21 |
| asselin_ | apoorvad, what time zone are you in? | 17:22 |
| Swanson | Sorry, coworker in the office, join what? | 17:22 |
| apoorvad | asselin_ Pacific | 17:22 |
| asselin_ | Swanson, working meeting to figure out testing of ciwatch | 17:23 |
| mmedvede | Swanson: I would like to discuss how to go about adding some testing to ciwatch | 17:23 |
| ja3 | I'm still flogging my (newly arrived) CI hardware | 17:23 |
| asselin_ | i'm thinking 4:00 pacific? | 17:23 |
| ja3 | so interested but restrained by the laws of spacetime | 17:23 |
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| apoorvad | asselin_ +1 | 17:24 |
| -openstackstatus- NOTICE: Gerrit is restarting now, to alleviate current performance impact and WebUI errors. | 17:24 | |
| mmedvede | 4:00 pacific works | 17:24 |
| Swanson | I'm out this afternoon so I don't think I can. | 17:24 |
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| asselin_ | ok let's do that and meet in #openstack-third-party-ci | 17:25 |
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| asselin_ | #agree meet in #openstack-third-party-ci today 4pm PST to discuss how to go about adding some testing to ciwatch | 17:26 |
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| mmedvede | 4pm PST = 00:00 utc, just in case | 17:26 |
| asselin_ | ack | 17:27 |
| asselin_ | #topic Common-CI Solution | 17:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Common-CI Solution (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:28 | |
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| asselin_ | I don't have any updates on this, although I've been seeing quite a few nodepool patches | 17:28 |
| mmedvede | asselin_: I finally migrated our nodepool to openstackci :) | 17:29 |
| asselin_ | mmedvede, awesome! | 17:29 |
| mmedvede | feels good to reduce LOC one have to maintain | 17:29 |
| asselin_ | yes, I'm looking forward to do the same on my new team. | 17:30 |
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| mmedvede | I did submit one patch that could in theory break some of deployments, looking for link | 17:30 |
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| mmedvede | # link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/276964/ | 17:30 |
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| mmedvede | It removes yaml_path from nodepool class in favor of using standard project_config params | 17:31 |
| Swanson | I've been trying to get a bare ubuntu node running that can talk to jenkins. What should I be loading other than 'ubuntu'? | 17:31 |
| asselin_ | looks good. will review it more carefully after the meeting | 17:31 |
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| Swanson | That's probably a monday meeting questino. | 17:32 |
| asselin_ | Swanson, you should probably be following what upstream does | 17:32 |
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| mmedvede | Swanson: it needs jenkins user setup that can be accessed by your jenkins | 17:33 |
| Swanson | mmedvede, I'll look for that. | 17:33 |
| Swanson | mmedvede, thanks! | 17:33 |
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| asselin_ | Swanson, actually, getting the bare images would make sense to add here: https://github.com/openstack-infra/project-config-example | 17:33 |
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| Swanson | asselin_, biggest issue with using the nodepool-base and node-devstack stuff is that I can't get the networking right. | 17:35 |
| asselin_ | Swanson, what is nodepool-base and node-devstack? oh..the elements? | 17:35 |
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| Swanson | asselin_, yah. | 17:36 |
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| Swanson | asselin_, working on a base one that sets up for my environment. | 17:37 |
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| asselin_ | I can tell you that we skip a lot of those and use the default networking provided | 17:37 |
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| Swanson | asselin_, Is it just a case of whacking most of the default scripts that go with those elements? | 17:37 |
| asselin_ | yes, and a few places commenting out and disabling e.g. unbound | 17:38 |
| asselin_ | those were needed by upstream to work across multiple clouds, afiak | 17:38 |
| asselin_ | since each cloud was doing something different | 17:39 |
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| Swanson | Then I have a plan. I was trying to set everything to make sure my env looked the same but in the end it doesn't. | 17:39 |
| Swanson | Thanks! | 17:39 |
| Swanson | Otherwise everything else works. Just the nodes are funky and the actual test runs fail. | 17:40 |
| asselin_ | Swanson, this class has an option to disable unbound: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/project-config/tree/nodepool/elements/puppet/bin/prepare-node#n40 | 17:41 |
| asselin_ | so that files needs some customization | 17:41 |
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| asselin_ | Swanson, here's another that might be needed: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/217914/ | 17:42 |
| asselin_ | will have to fix those merge conflicts | 17:43 |
| asselin_ | anything else on common ci? | 17:43 |
| Swanson | asselin_, Nice. Thanks! | 17:43 |
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| asselin_ | #topic open discussion | 17:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:45 | |
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| asselin_ | anything else to discuss? | 17:46 |
| asselin_ | ok, cool. well see some of you later today! | 17:47 |
| asselin_ | thanks everyone! | 17:47 |
| asselin_ | #endmeeting | 17:47 |
| mmedvede | thank you asselin_ | 17:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:47 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 9 17:47:38 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:47 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-02-09-17.01.html | 17:47 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-02-09-17.01.txt | 17:47 |
| Swanson | later. thanks again | 17:47 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-02-09-17.01.log.html | 17:47 |
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| breton | peanut butter jelly time? | 17:59 |
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| stevemar | ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, ericksonsantos, geoffarnold, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, joesavak, lbragstad, lhcheng, marekd, morganfainberg, nkinder, raildo, rodrigods, roxanaghe, samueldmq, shaleh, stevemar, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong, claudiub, rderose, samleon, xek, MaxPC, tjcocozz, jorge_munoz | 18:00 |
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| tjcocozz | o/ | 18:00 |
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| stevemar | ping for keystone meeting | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | o/ | 18:00 |
| topol | o/ | 18:00 |
| jamielennox | o/ | 18:00 |
| lhcheng_ | o/ | 18:00 |
| jorge_munoz | o/ | 18:00 |
| notmorgan | stevemar: you should link the meeting in your ping :P | 18:00 |
| marekd | bonjour! | 18:00 |
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| raildo | o/ | 18:00 |
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| bknudson_ | hola | 18:00 |
| dolphm | o/ | 18:00 |
| stevemar | notmorgan: i was replying to a ping! | 18:00 |
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| stevemar | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting#Main_Agenda | 18:00 |
| stevemar | notmorgan: no patience! | 18:01 |
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| dstanek | o/ | 18:01 |
| gyee | \o | 18:01 |
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| stevemar | lets get started | 18:01 |
| tsymanczyk | \o | 18:01 |
| samueldmq | hey | 18:01 |
| stevemar | #startmeeting | 18:01 |
| openstack | stevemar: Error: A meeting name is required, e.g., '#startmeeting Marketing Committee' | 18:01 |
| stevemar | #startmeeting keystone | 18:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 9 18:01:53 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is stevemar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:01 |
| stevemar | #topic mitaka-3 release countdown | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "mitaka-3 release countdown (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
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| * notmorgan hides under a rock. | 18:02 | |
| topol | nowhere to hide notmorgan :-) | 18:02 |
| stevemar | so we are about 3 weeks away from feature freeze | 18:02 |
| notmorgan | topol: i'm so not talking to you for pointing out i can't hide here. :P | 18:02 |
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| stevemar | #link https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/mitaka-3 | 18:03 |
| topol | notmorgan :-) | 18:03 |
| stevemar | there are lots of bugs and blueprints to fix still | 18:03 |
| stevemar | so please prioritize reviews that address blueprints and bugs | 18:03 |
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| stevemar | the following BPs need code reviews: domain-roles, totp, service providers and catalog, shadow users | 18:04 |
| notmorgan | ftr: i'm hoping to have posted conversions for ~4-5 client libs this week to ksa/occ. so i wont be looking at those things. | 18:04 |
| notmorgan | just a heads up. [for this week] | 18:04 |
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| dstanek | we still have a few high priority bugs that don't yet have fixes | 18:04 |
| stevemar | notmorgan: boo | 18:04 |
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| stevemar | dstanek: that is also true | 18:04 |
| notmorgan | stevemar: do you want KSA/OCC in client libs or not? | 18:04 |
| samueldmq | notmorgan: good thing | 18:04 |
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| * notmorgan already reviewed totp though. | 18:05 | |
| samueldmq | dstanek: yes true | 18:05 |
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| stevemar | there are a few bugs related to implied roles that ayoung needs to land | 18:05 |
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| dstanek | stevemar: the bugs have landed, but are there fixes? | 18:05 |
| gyee | is domain-roles a go or no-go? | 18:05 |
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| notmorgan | i discussed the ocnfig file vs API "security" with him. he's going to fix the bug i opened by moving to a multistropt fwiw | 18:06 |
| stevemar | dstanek: no fixes yet... | 18:06 |
| notmorgan | stevemar: ^ | 18:06 |
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| stevemar | gyee: was hoping henrynash would be online for that! | 18:06 |
| lbragstad | notmorgan do you have a patch for that? | 18:06 |
| samueldmq | notmorgan: this https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1517037 ? | 18:07 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1517037 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "API-based Domain specific config does not check for type of option" [Medium,New] | 18:07 |
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| stevemar | samueldmq: no, https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1541540 | 18:07 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1541540 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "Implied role "root_role" config needs to be expanded" [High,Triaged] - Assigned to Adam Young (ayoung) | 18:07 |
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| ayoung_ | That one is not too hard. I should have it shortly | 18:08 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: thx | 18:08 |
| stevemar | ayoung_: cool | 18:08 |
| ayoung_ | going to change to MultiStrOpt | 18:08 |
| notmorgan | super easy change. | 18:08 |
| lbragstad | why not ListOpt? | 18:08 |
| gyee | hah, looks like totp is not encrypting/decrypting the credentials | 18:08 |
| notmorgan | lbragstad: roles can have ',' in the names | 18:08 |
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| lbragstad | the openstack-ansible project has been running into issues with multistropts | 18:09 |
| ayoung_ | lbragstad, also I can do it backwards compat | 18:09 |
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| notmorgan | ayoung_: this doesn't need to be backwards compat | 18:09 |
| notmorgan | it just landed :P | 18:09 |
| stevemar | notmorgan: we haven't released anything with implied roles yet | 18:09 |
| notmorgan | stevemar: i just said that :) | 18:09 |
| ayoung_ | notmorgan, yeah, but this way I don't have to change and docs or tests, either | 18:09 |
| ayoung_ | smaller change | 18:10 |
| notmorgan | ayoung_: you're going to have to change tests in either case really | 18:10 |
| stevemar | so... please please please review blueprints! | 18:10 |
| notmorgan | and docs. | 18:10 |
| ayoung_ | if I have problem with multistropt I'lll bail | 18:10 |
| ayoung_ | nah, should just be added test, but the exisitng ones should pass unchnged | 18:10 |
| lbragstad | ayoung_ config generators will have problems with multistropts versus listopts | 18:10 |
| lbragstad | ayoung_ you should swing by #openstack-ansible | 18:10 |
| notmorgan | anyway. the ',' issue is bigger | 18:10 |
| notmorgan | reason to do multistropt | 18:11 |
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| ayoung_ | ++ | 18:11 |
| notmorgan | ayoung_: your tests should pass in both cases fwiw. | 18:11 |
| ayoung_ | I'll post it, and we can argue there. | 18:11 |
| stevemar | getting off topic at this point :P | 18:11 |
| stevemar | yes | 18:11 |
| notmorgan | both end up [] in the conf | 18:11 |
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| notmorgan | anyway | 18:11 |
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| stevemar | #topic fixing the pipeline | 18:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "fixing the pipeline (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:11 | |
| stevemar | notmorgan: ^ | 18:11 |
| notmorgan | so. lots of changes posted | 18:12 |
| stevemar | maybe just debrief the team on what you've cooked up? | 18:12 |
| stevemar | #link: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bp/extensions-to-core | 18:12 |
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| notmorgan | basically cleanup the entire paste pipline to be size_limit request_id [api_public|api_admin|service_v3] | 18:12 |
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| notmorgan | for each entry | 18:12 |
| notmorgan | it finishes the work of making all extensions core | 18:12 |
| notmorgan | and baking in our "required" middleware | 18:13 |
| bknudson_ | these weren't extensions | 18:13 |
| notmorgan | this means we now are working in code for all the APIs and middleware required by keystone instead of fighting with paste + code | 18:13 |
| notmorgan | basically it means keystoine is one app [like it should have been] instead of many things that could/might work as long as you don't touch it | 18:14 |
| ayoung_ | Docs and such can still go in post M3, right? | 18:14 |
| dstanek | this makes me happy. anything we don't want the deployer to change should be in our code | 18:14 |
| stevemar | ayoung_: yes, docs and tests | 18:14 |
| notmorgan | there is one caveate, the AWS compat code has some added logic since there are orgs that need to remove it for legal reasons | 18:14 |
| dstanek | we can still architect the system in terms of middleware, but it's not longer optional | 18:14 |
| notmorgan | this is documented so it isn't going to be rolled in and break them | 18:15 |
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| dolphm | notmorgan: why not keep ec2 as a proper extension then? | 18:15 |
| notmorgan | dolphm: because it wont be under authcontext | 18:15 |
| dolphm | notmorgan: explain? | 18:15 |
| notmorgan | authcontext is moved into the main app | 18:15 |
| notmorgan | which handles all the token parsing validation, etc, as is url normalizer, and jsonbody | 18:16 |
| dolphm | so, custom extensions can no longer take advantage of it? | 18:16 |
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| notmorgan | i'll work up a way to lead extensions in with authcontext more easily. | 18:16 |
| notmorgan | but basically we shouldn't be using the paste pipeline for this | 18:16 |
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| notmorgan | true middleware can continue to work/filter | 18:17 |
| dolphm | of those, auth context sounds like the only one that should have stayed in the pipeline | 18:17 |
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| bknudson_ | sounds like we're reimplementing paste | 18:17 |
| notmorgan | except if someone breaks it/moves it puts things under it | 18:17 |
| notmorgan | we are horked | 18:17 |
| notmorgan | so it can't really be in the pipeline. | 18:17 |
| topol | the original pipeline reminded me of Garanimals (reference link for all you youngin's out there http://www.garanimals.com/how.htm) | 18:17 |
| dolphm | notmorgan: we or they? | 18:17 |
| notmorgan | dolphm: they. | 18:17 |
| notmorgan | dolphm: "we" the devs here i trust | 18:18 |
| dstanek | bknudson_: no, paste is just a way in config to do something like middleware(middleware(app())) | 18:18 |
| ayoung_ | topol, the issue iwth past is that it did not allow you to make reusaable chains of filters. | 18:18 |
| ayoung_ | I tried to make that work at one point, but it was too invasive | 18:18 |
| ayoung_ | So if you wanted to say "all theses sub pipelines need these five compnenets in this order" you couldn't...you have to duplicate | 18:19 |
| notmorgan | it would be just as easy to wrap your extension in RequestHandler (i'll make it public) and benefit from it as well. | 18:19 |
| dolphm | invasive? | 18:19 |
| notmorgan | and pass the info down/handle the case the info has been pased down already | 18:19 |
| ayoung_ | dolphm, yeah...not sure if I still have the POC code, but it involved really changing how the pipelines were built | 18:19 |
| bknudson_ | we weren't even using the paste pipeline consistently -- https://review.openstack.org/#/c/198931/ | 18:19 |
| ayoung_ | I still feel bad for not finishing it | 18:19 |
| bknudson_ | so we might as well get rid of it since it never really worked anyways | 18:19 |
| ayoung_ | it would have made paste much more usable...maybe I'll look again when I get time | 18:20 |
| dolphm | ayoung_: i thought you were talking about just implementing a single filter | 18:20 |
| ayoung_ | dolphm, that was my fallback | 18:20 |
| notmorgan | but basically this makes keystone an app not "a mix of randomly used things that some are required some aren't and might break if you change them" | 18:20 |
| dolphm | it's pretty usable as is, imo | 18:20 |
| ayoung_ | dolphm, I like paste, I just wanted it to do more.... | 18:20 |
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| dolphm | notmorgan: i agree with most of your changes, especially jsonbody (we don't have to worry about xml anymore!), etc | 18:20 |
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| bknudson_ | does getting rid of paste make it easier to use falcon? | 18:20 |
| topol | notmorgan is trying to bring us sanity to our world | 18:20 |
| ayoung_ | dolphm, yeah, which is why I felt this would have been a good next step. Its so close | 18:21 |
| ayoung_ | you can do what I wanted to do manually, it just involved a lot of copy paste | 18:21 |
| stevemar | notmorgan: what about folks that had custom middleware that relied on auth context? | 18:21 |
| topol | stevemar good question! | 18:21 |
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| dolphm | but the auth context one will punt a big burden back on anyone writing custom filters that could otherwise use it, and directly rejects same architecture we offer to other projects with keystonemiddleware.auth_token | 18:21 |
| notmorgan | dolphm: so, my argument will be to make them wrap their app in the request handler [and doc it] | 18:22 |
| notmorgan | and then make sure we handle the case the handler was already called | 18:22 |
| ayoung_ | I wanted FILTER_PIPELINE=sizelimit url_normalize request_id build_auth_context json_body ec2_extension_v3 s3_extension | 18:22 |
| ayoung_ | and then | 18:22 |
| notmorgan | dolphm: it'll be a 2 line change | 18:22 |
| dolphm | but we already support paste, and have forever... | 18:22 |
| notmorgan | ayoung_: no. please no :( | 18:22 |
| ayoung_ | pipelinet = FILETER-PIPELINE service_v3 | 18:23 |
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| ayoung_ | notmorgan, I never got it to work | 18:23 |
| notmorgan | ayoung_: because paste doesn't work like that :P | 18:23 |
| dolphm | ayoung_: you're describing a contribution to paste itself, not keystone | 18:23 |
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| ayoung_ | dolphm, rihgt, that is what I never got to work | 18:23 |
| ayoung_ | anyway... | 18:23 |
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| stevemar | notmorgan: what about folks that had custom middleware that relied on auth context? | 18:23 |
| notmorgan | dolphm: anyway, if we as keytone rely on this code, we shouldn't have it in the paste-pipeline | 18:23 |
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| notmorgan | stevemar: ^ see above | 18:24 |
| dolphm | notmorgan: counter proposal -- what if we rolled things up slightly differently than how you have | 18:24 |
| ayoung_ | The issue was that we could not make better use of paste, like having one pipeline for auth mechacnism without duplicating all of the middleware pieces that have to be on each one | 18:24 |
| notmorgan | stevemar: i'll add another patch + doc that they wrap thier middleware with. | 18:24 |
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| notmorgan | dolphm: as long as authcontext isn't removable/baked in. this was the #1 reason for the work. | 18:24 |
| bknudson_ | maybe we need a spec for this? | 18:25 |
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| ayoung_ | dolphm, if you dig in the IRC logs, I think you will find yo uand I had this exact conversation about 3 years ago or so | 18:25 |
| dolphm | understatement ^ | 18:25 |
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| notmorgan | i'm also happy to just drop the code if this direction isn't interested | 18:25 |
| notmorgan | interesting. | 18:25 |
| ayoung_ | spec it, and we can consider for Newton? | 18:25 |
| stevemar | notmorgan: it's something i want to see happen, but i think we need to double check we aren't screwing people over | 18:25 |
| stevemar | newton is definitely a good candidate | 18:26 |
| dolphm | notmorgan: actually, a lot of the things you put into core could have been rolled into a single, mandatory filter | 18:26 |
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| notmorgan | dolphm: no such thing as "mandatory" filters in paste | 18:26 |
| dolphm | notmorgan: so the default pipeline would be something like mandatory_filter ec2_api_extension core_app | 18:26 |
| notmorgan | dolphm: i simply disagree that a "mandatory" filter is good architecture | 18:26 |
| dolphm | notmorgan: a nickname for components useful to not only the app, but also to api extensions and other middlewares | 18:27 |
| ayoung_ | Let me say the same thing I say at this point in each release cycle. The most valuable time is approaching: once Milestone 3 is out, we really need to start thining about what is going to get into the next release. We can't discuss something big for the first time at at the Summit and expect it to get in to the next release | 18:27 |
| notmorgan | anyway it's a 4 line change to spin request handler out into it's own filter | 18:27 |
| bknudson_ | are you saying that because mandatory is in the name deployers will be smart enough to not remove it? | 18:27 |
| dolphm | notmorgan: highly_reusable then | 18:27 |
| notmorgan | since it really is that, just auto-wrapping the factories | 18:28 |
| notmorgan | sorry 6 line | 18:28 |
| notmorgan | but seriously, this was just another cleanup change that we'd talked about in the past | 18:28 |
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| dolphm | notmorgan: but you're disregarding almost all the utility of paste in the process | 18:28 |
| samueldmq | was it possible to add a custom_middleware in the coded pipeline (extracted from paste to code) so custom extensions could still take advantage of current filters ? | 18:28 |
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| notmorgan | dolphm: i personally think paste needs to be removed. | 18:28 |
| samueldmq | like a hook for their custom things ? | 18:28 |
| dolphm | samueldmq: yes, definitely | 18:28 |
| stevemar | gonna switch topics in 2 minutes | 18:29 |
| dolphm | samueldmq: ec2 was an example of that, along with several others | 18:29 |
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| bknudson_ | we did actually agree to stop having extensions and move them to core | 18:29 |
| notmorgan | so i'm fine if someone wants to take this work and run with it if it's not that interesting. i really have committed the time to it i'm going to [was planning on letting it sit until steve put me on the spot for this meeting] | 18:29 |
| jamielennox | i don't like a lot of the way our middleware is doing things like reaching into the db, but in deployers defence no-one is actually removing critical things from the paste pipeline - otherwise keystone would just not work | 18:29 |
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| stevemar | bknudson_: but these aren't really extensions | 18:29 |
| notmorgan | s/not that interesting as it sits/ | 18:30 |
| samueldmq | dolphm: got it | 18:30 |
| notmorgan | jamielennox: ++ | 18:30 |
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| notmorgan | jamielennox: fair enough | 18:30 |
| stevemar | switching topics | 18:30 |
| notmorgan | jamielennox: but i agree the middleware should never reach into the db | 18:30 |
| stevemar | lbragstad: get ready | 18:30 |
| notmorgan | so. | 18:30 |
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| samueldmq | stevemar: looks like a small spec for holding discussions ? | 18:30 |
| notmorgan | authcontext is broken in that regard | 18:30 |
| ayoung_ | notmorgan, I'd probably have just pushed for "a single middleware that does everythiung" and elliding the paste pipeline" but not remove it altogether | 18:30 |
| topol | elliding? | 18:31 |
| notmorgan | anyway, so run with it, don't i've got things to work on besides this and i wasn't going to push this agenda further except i was put on the meeting today | 18:31 |
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| notmorgan | review the locla cache tihg | 18:31 |
| ayoung_ | topol, ya know like ellipses? | 18:31 |
| notmorgan | thing* | 18:31 |
| notmorgan | that is more important | 18:31 |
| ayoung_ | ++ | 18:31 |
| stevemar | notmorgan: no decision on this one yet, thanks for the patches, please keep them online | 18:31 |
| notmorgan | stevemar: i wont be rebasing them / folling them | 18:31 |
| stevemar | thats fine | 18:31 |
| notmorgan | stevemar: so i'll let others cover it. | 18:32 |
| stevemar | y | 18:32 |
| ayoung_ | next topic is trusts. | 18:32 |
| notmorgan | if they want the EC2/S3 ones should be reviewed | 18:32 |
| stevemar | #topic trusts and v2.0 | 18:32 |
| notmorgan | just cause that is no-extension things | 18:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "trusts and v2.0 (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:32 | |
| ayoung_ | My suggestion is that we leave them until we remove the V2 API | 18:32 |
| lbragstad | v2.0 and trusts - do we support it official or can we not... http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-February/086165.html | 18:32 |
| stevemar | #link: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/274850/ | 18:32 |
| * notmorgan doesn't care about v2 trusts. | 18:32 | |
| lbragstad | if we want to support is then isn't another thing we have to build into v2.0 fernet tokens | 18:32 |
| stevemar | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-February/086165.html | 18:32 |
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| ayoung_ | 1. they went in pre specs | 18:32 |
| notmorgan | and i remember they didn't work well for a while. | 18:32 |
| notmorgan | or at all | 18:32 |
| ayoung_ | there was no V3 only aspect to thenm | 18:32 |
| ayoung_ | and I think you will break Heat | 18:32 |
| notmorgan | then they did then they didnt.. then they did | 18:32 |
| stevemar | dolphm: do you remember what happened back then? | 18:33 |
| lbragstad | ayoung_ it will only break heat *iff* they are authenticating against v2.0 | 18:33 |
| ayoung_ | I never added them to the v2 api cus I nver figures out how to build the v2 docs. I know, I suck | 18:33 |
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| bknudson_ | wadl sucks | 18:33 |
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| stevemar | yep | 18:33 |
| ayoung_ | lbragstad, might not be Heat teams choice | 18:33 |
| gyee | hey now :) | 18:33 |
| samueldmq | trusts are a v3 concept right ? | 18:34 |
| lbragstad | at the time they were an extension | 18:34 |
| ayoung_ | a site might still be set up V2 only. We see a lot of tht, due to either malfeasance or incompetnace I wont say | 18:34 |
| stevemar | lbragstad: whats the amount of work to get fernet tokens to play nice with v2 auth and trusts? | 18:34 |
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| ayoung_ | no | 18:34 |
| ayoung_ | trusts are a token concept that came out areoun the same time as v3 | 18:34 |
| ayoung_ | but they were v2 as well | 18:34 |
| samueldmq | so nobody can say it's a v3 only thing | 18:34 |
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| dolphm | the /trusts api only exists in v3 | 18:35 |
| raildo | stevemar, it is breaking a couple of tests related to this.... and I didn't found a simple solution for it | 18:35 |
| lbragstad | it's under the v3 route | 18:35 |
| samueldmq | how was the route before moving to core ? | 18:35 |
| dolphm | there is no documented impact of trusts on v2.0 that i'm aware of | 18:35 |
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| raildo | it's under v3 route, but we have code related on v2 =/ | 18:35 |
| samueldmq | uner /v3 already? | 18:35 |
| dolphm | samueldmq: /v3/trusts | 18:35 |
| ayoung_ | dolphm, actually, that i recent. It used to be under extensions. So, no one has complained yet | 18:35 |
| ayoung_ | that either means that we are fine, or no one is running the new code | 18:36 |
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| samueldmq | ayoung_: ++ | 18:36 |
| dolphm | trust docs https://github.com/openstack/keystone-specs/blob/master/api/v3/identity-api-v3-os-trust-ext.rst | 18:36 |
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| ayoung_ | so, any feedback on the mailing list post? | 18:36 |
| topol | I dont recall any v2 trust docs | 18:37 |
| stevemar | ayoung_: so that's why i asked lbragstad to send the note to the list | 18:37 |
| samueldmq | in the worst case, we could deprecate trusts+uuid and document they aren't supported in fernet+v2? | 18:37 |
| ayoung_ | that just wnt out. Cool. Let's see, and I'll bug #Heat to respond | 18:37 |
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| lbragstad | also v3 routers were added on august 2 2014 - https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blame/master/keystone/trust/routers.py#L33 | 18:37 |
| stevemar | ayoung_: assuming there are no responses, are you okay with that patch that nixes support for v2 and trusts? | 18:37 |
| lbragstad | or that's the last time it was touched | 18:37 |
| lbragstad | it could have been done before that | 18:37 |
| topol | I htought trusts was yet another carrot to get folks to v3? | 18:38 |
| ayoung_ | stevemar, its not me. I really don't care. I want all of v2 to die, so dieing incremenatlly is fine | 18:38 |
| samueldmq | I think we should just deprecate, and document v2+trusts+fernet is a thing that doesn't exist | 18:38 |
| ayoung_ | I just think we are going to screw people, and won't find out for a while | 18:38 |
| topol | samueldmq ++ | 18:38 |
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| dolphm | lbragstad: gate tests pass if you remove support, right? | 18:38 |
| ayoung_ | but. if the anser is use V3...I can get behind that | 18:38 |
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| stevemar | *grumbles* | 18:39 |
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| ayoung_ | I suspect we will be OK | 18:39 |
| stevemar | let's bug heat after this | 18:39 |
| ayoung_ | if it is Fernet vs trusts , i side with Fernet | 18:39 |
| raildo | dolphm, tests related to v2+trusts+fernet will pass | 18:40 |
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| ayoung_ | you know what, yes...lets kill it. | 18:40 |
| stevemar | ayoung_: comment on the patch | 18:40 |
| ayoung_ | its a risk, but the answer is "move to v3" | 18:40 |
| ayoung_ | will do | 18:40 |
| ayoung_ | can we have a vote on it | 18:40 |
| stevemar | i think we all want it removed | 18:41 |
| samueldmq | deprecating is the right way to ensure no one will be using upon removal :( | 18:41 |
| ayoung_ | can be "+1 the patch if yo usupport" | 18:41 |
| samueldmq | at very least, I wanted to see a bug opened, and a release note | 18:41 |
| stevemar | it's just a bit of uncertainty around it | 18:41 |
| samueldmq | to let people say it was "supported" by mistaake | 18:41 |
| samueldmq | mistake* | 18:41 |
| ayoung_ | samueldmq, so...lets see if there is any feedback on the mailing list for now | 18:41 |
| stevemar | samueldmq: that's a good idea | 18:42 |
| topol | if we deprecate wil that help flush out if anyon was using it? | 18:42 |
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| ayoung_ | it wasn't a mistake. But As pointed out, you need V3 to do anything interesting with trusts. V2 Tokens alone don't buy much | 18:42 |
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| raildo | ayoung_, ++ | 18:42 |
| stevemar | topol: deprecations take 2 releases, we wanted to make fernet the default in M | 18:42 |
| ayoung_ | that was where we really changed things. | 18:42 |
| ayoung_ | yeah, Fernet is too important | 18:43 |
| ayoung_ | we can mea culpa this one | 18:43 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: we could simply deprecate uuid+fernet+v2 | 18:43 |
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| samueldmq | stevemar: sorry, I meant uuid+v2+trusts | 18:43 |
| topol | samueldmq thats what I meant | 18:43 |
| ayoung_ | samueldmq, Id rather not | 18:43 |
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| samueldmq | and simply say v2+fernet isn't supported | 18:43 |
| ayoung_ | I want uuid and fernet to yuse the same mechanism | 18:43 |
| samueldmq | ^ | 18:43 |
| lbragstad | samueldmq if we land fernet as the default then uuid is going to be deprecated anyway | 18:43 |
| ayoung_ | it cleans up the revoke story a huge amount | 18:43 |
| ayoung_ | keeping anything in the DB for uuid breaks that | 18:44 |
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| lbragstad | offline discussion? I know jorge_munoz has a ton of trust questions too | 18:44 |
| lbragstad | stevemar ^ | 18:44 |
| stevemar | lbragstad: yeah | 18:44 |
| lbragstad | i think we can carry this in the review | 18:44 |
| stevemar | let's get jorge_munoz some time | 18:44 |
| stevemar | #topic Trust workflow | 18:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Trust workflow (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:44 | |
| stevemar | jorge_munoz: you're up | 18:44 |
| jorge_munoz | So my question are regarding trust workflow. | 18:45 |
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| jorge_munoz | Are redelegation and impersonation multually exclusive? | 18:45 |
| jorge_munoz | Should it be allowed to create trust with both redelegation and impersonation set to true? | 18:45 |
| amakarov | jorge_munoz, no and yes ) | 18:45 |
| amakarov | yes - to the last question | 18:46 |
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| jorge_munoz | So, I was thinking that maybe we need a new attribute in trust called allow impersonation | 18:46 |
| lbragstad | jorge_munoz so make them mutually exclusive? | 18:46 |
| amakarov | impersonation allows to mimic the trustor | 18:46 |
| lbragstad | jorge_munoz is that what you're suggesting? | 18:46 |
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| amakarov | lbragstad, what for? | 18:47 |
| dolphm | fernet hasn't supported v2 trusts since kilo, right? | 18:47 |
| jorge_munoz | allow_impersonation would allow to impersonate at the end of a trusted chain | 18:47 |
| ayoung_ | jorge_munoz, nope | 18:47 |
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| ayoung_ | it is not an element of a trust | 18:47 |
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| jorge_munoz | Currently one can only delegate a trust using impersonation throu out the chain | 18:47 |
| ayoung_ | if you do impoeronsation, and allow redelgation, the redlegated trust should be impersonation only | 18:48 |
| samueldmq | dolphm: yes, so just keep doing that, make fernet default, and with the default v2+trust isn't supported anymore | 18:48 |
| ayoung_ | don't change the rules from layer to layer | 18:48 |
| ayoung_ | I would not do impoersonation one level and not have that carry on | 18:48 |
| topol | samueldmq that makes sense to me | 18:48 |
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| topol | solve it with a release note :-) | 18:48 |
| amakarov | ayoung_, btw I don't remember whether we have this validated somehow | 18:49 |
| samueldmq | topol: o/ | 18:49 |
| jorge_munoz | So redelegation does not work in impersonation | 18:49 |
| jorge_munoz | If impersonation is used a trust is just being created as the original trustor. | 18:49 |
| amakarov | jorge_munoz, it works | 18:49 |
| lbragstad | jorge_munoz right - you actually end up with a trust web, it's impossible to create a "chain" with redelegation and impersonation | 18:49 |
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| jorge_munoz | So trust can be created with impersonated tokens? | 18:51 |
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| jorge_munoz | Its currently allowed, but thats not really redelegated a trust. | 18:51 |
| notmorgan | dolphm: fernet never supported v2 trusts | 18:51 |
| jorge_munoz | redelegating* | 18:52 |
| stevemar | jorge_munoz: i think so... | 18:52 |
| amakarov | jorge_munoz, do you have a use case? I don't see how impersonation affects redelegation | 18:52 |
| notmorgan | dolphm: but making fernet default means it has to support the baseline stuff... right? | 18:52 |
| ayoung_ | lets write up how redelegation should work, and make it work right | 18:52 |
| dolphm | notmorgan: i vote to maintain status quo then, until we get an alarming bug report we have to act on | 18:52 |
| lbragstad | amakarov jorge_munoz is just working on cleaning up the code because it was a rabbit hole in the clean up revocation events thing he was working on | 18:52 |
| jorge_munoz | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/273279/7/keystone/tests/unit/test_v3_auth.py | 18:52 |
| notmorgan | dolphm: i generally agree | 18:52 |
| * dolphm is sorry for still being on the previous topic | 18:52 | |
| notmorgan | dolphm: /me too | 18:52 |
| dolphm | ayoung_: ++ | 18:52 |
| ayoung_ | the way it works now is not right, andnot something we should work to maintain. | 18:52 |
| jorge_munoz | line 3289 | 18:52 |
| lbragstad | ayoung_ ++ | 18:52 |
| stevemar | dolphm: you're given one warning | 18:53 |
| topol | notmorgan, cant we just have release note to explain what doesnt work with the new default. I dont recall us ever saying things worked with v2 | 18:53 |
| notmorgan | stevemar: ooh do i get kicked out if i go past the warning | 18:53 |
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| notmorgan | stevemar: /me looks to go home from school! | 18:53 |
| dolphm | jorge_munoz: do you think you could document the current state of redelegation behavior in our dev docs? | 18:53 |
| stevemar | topol: yeah, lbragstad is gonna whip up a release note | 18:53 |
| jorge_munoz | This are test written of how i believe trust worked | 18:53 |
| ayoung_ | redelegation should be a new trust, with the same or fewer roles as the previous trust | 18:53 |
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| dolphm | ayoung_: the tests illustrate the current behavior pretty well, too | 18:53 |
| topol | lbragstad writes the best release notes. We're good then | 18:54 |
| lbragstad | ayoung_ between the new trustor and the new trustee | 18:54 |
| ayoung_ | and a new trustee. The thing we don't track well now is intermediate trustees | 18:54 |
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| dolphm | ayoung_: the problem is when you redegelate with impersonation - impersonation is applied automatically and the second redelegated trust is created between the "wrong" two users ( jorge_munoz correct me if i'm explaining this wrong ) | 18:54 |
| ayoung_ | with impersonation, the userid should stay the same of the original trustor | 18:54 |
| dolphm | ayoung_: *should*? | 18:55 |
| notmorgan | i think simply don't allow impersionation redelegate | 18:55 |
| notmorgan | simple | 18:55 |
| dolphm | notmorgan: ++ :P unless there's a real use case there, it sounds scary | 18:55 |
| lbragstad | notmorgan so mutually exclusive - like what jorge_munoz says? | 18:55 |
| notmorgan | it doesn't make sense for user X to delegate to Y, and then Y be allowed to make Z user X | 18:55 |
| ayoung_ | with redelegatio and non translation, the trustor for the new trust is the trustee of the old | 18:55 |
| ayoung_ | notmorgan, if we could drop impoersaontion al toegether I'd be happy | 18:55 |
| ayoung_ | the issue is that we probably need the two together | 18:55 |
| notmorgan | you could redelegate non-impersonation roles | 18:55 |
| jorge_munoz | dolphm: its not the wrong user, its just a user that was delegated a trust. | 18:55 |
| stevemar | ayoung_: that won't happen for a while | 18:55 |
| ayoung_ | I'd love it if no access control was based on the userid | 18:56 |
| notmorgan | but i would not allow impersionation | 18:56 |
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| ayoung_ | notmorgan, neither would i,expcet that we had to | 18:56 |
| ayoung_ | swift and babican | 18:56 |
| ayoung_ | barbican | 18:56 |
| notmorgan | AND i would make sure redelegation with impersonation to non-impersonation works | 18:56 |
| notmorgan | between the right two users | 18:56 |
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| ayoung_ | both have object ownership based on userid | 18:56 |
| ayoung_ | notmorgan, that I would drop | 18:56 |
| ayoung_ | no redelegation with impersonation to non-impersonation | 18:56 |
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| ayoung_ | I can't see a use case for it | 18:57 |
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| samueldmq | 3 minutes left | 18:57 |
| lbragstad | so - i think we need to define the behavior want, right? | 18:57 |
| stevemar | lbragstad: ayoung_: notmorgan dolphm take it up in -keystone | 18:57 |
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| stevemar | we're out of time | 18:57 |
| samueldmq | lbragstad: ++ | 18:57 |
| lbragstad | continue in keysotne | 18:57 |
| stevemar | please please please review blueprints and bugs this week!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | 18:57 |
| jorge_munoz | another point is that redelegated_trust_id is not in its own column | 18:57 |
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| jorge_munoz | we need to move it out of extras | 18:58 |
| stevemar | jorge_munoz: meh, implementation detail | 18:58 |
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| topol | stevemar which BPs are priority? | 18:58 |
| dolphm | stevemar: link to things to review | 18:58 |
| samueldmq | topol: https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/mitaka-3 | 18:58 |
| samueldmq | #link https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/mitaka-3 | 18:58 |
| stevemar | dolphm: https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/mitaka-3 | 18:58 |
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| topol | thanks! | 18:58 |
| amakarov | jorge_munoz, -1 the test is buggy :) | 18:58 |
| stevemar | the ones that don't say "implemented" | 18:59 |
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| stevemar | shadow users: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/262045/56 | 18:59 |
| samueldmq | it's easy, make them appear in 'implemented' | 18:59 |
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| samueldmq | that's all :) | 18:59 |
| stevemar | service providers and catalog: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/269455/ | 18:59 |
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| stevemar | domain roles: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/261870/ | 18:59 |
| stevemar | #endmeeting | 18:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 9 18:59:43 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-02-09-18.01.html | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-02-09-18.01.txt | 18:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-02-09-18.01.log.html | 18:59 |
| fungi | hidey-ho, infrarinos! | 19:00 |
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| clarkb | morning | 19:00 |
| crinkle | o/ | 19:00 |
| Zara | o/ | 19:00 |
| Clint | o/ | 19:00 |
| pleia2 | o/ | 19:00 |
| nibalizer | o/ | 19:00 |
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| AJaeger | o/ | 19:00 |
| mordred | o/ | 19:00 |
| pabelanger | o/ | 19:00 |
| jhesketh | Morning | 19:00 |
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| ianw | o/ | 19:01 |
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| jeblair | o/ | 19:01 |
| bknudson_ | maybe I'll figure this out sometime -- http://logs.openstack.org/22/277022/5/check/gate-keystonemiddleware-requirements/5037aba/console.html#_2016-02-09_15_30_57_329 :( | 19:01 |
| eumel8 | o/ (guest) | 19:01 |
| bknudson_ | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/277550/ was inadequate | 19:01 |
| AJaeger | bknudson_: wrong channel? | 19:01 |
| anteaya | bknudson_: did you want to be posting to the infra meeting? | 19:01 |
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| SotK | o/ | 19:02 |
| asselin_ | o/ | 19:02 |
| fungi | #startmeeting infra | 19:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 9 19:02:17 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:02 |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:02 |
| olaph | o/ | 19:02 |
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| fungi | #topic Announcements | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| rcarrillocruz | o/ | 19:02 |
| fungi | i didn't have anything specific for today, and noting that we've got the upcoming infra-cloud sprint discussed later as a general meeting topic anyway, as well as afs/mirror stuff | 19:02 |
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| fungi | oh, actually, there is one thing | 19:02 |
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| fungi | #info Matthew Wagoner (olaph) has volunteered as the Infra Team's Cross-Project Specs Liaison | 19:03 |
| AJaeger | thanks, olaph ! | 19:03 |
| jeblair | olaph: thanks! | 19:03 |
| cody-somerville | \o | 19:03 |
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| mordred | woot | 19:03 |
| Zara | thanks! :) | 19:03 |
| fungi | thanks olaph! let us know if there are infra implications on any upcoming cross-project specs we need to keep a closer eye on | 19:03 |
| olaph | will do! | 19:04 |
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| fungi | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:04 | |
| olaph | so far, it's been quiet | 19:04 |
| fungi | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-02-02-19.03.html | 19:04 |
| fungi | there were none, all successful | 19:04 |
| fungi | #topic Specs approval | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:04 | |
| fungi | #info Approved "Unified Mirrors" specification | 19:04 |
| fungi | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/unified_mirrors.html | 19:05 |
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| fungi | (that link _should_ be correct once the post pipeline backlog clears) | 19:05 |
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| fungi | there are also some related spec updates proposed | 19:05 |
| fungi | PROPOSED: Update unified mirror spec to support AFS (jeblair) | 19:05 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/273673 | 19:05 |
| jeblair | this is also an in-production spec | 19:05 |
| mordred | it's a good proposal, given that it's what we implemented :) | 19:05 |
| fungi | jeblair: this one's ready for a council vote? | 19:05 |
| jeblair | so once we approve this, we will be caught up with reality :) | 19:05 |
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| fungi | yeah, let's rubber-stamp it this week | 19:06 |
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| fungi | #info Voting is open on "Update unified mirror spec to support AFS" until 19:00 UTC Thursday, February 11. | 19:06 |
| fungi | PROPOSED: Maintenance change to doc publishing spec (jeblair) | 19:06 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/276481 | 19:06 |
| jeblair | this is dusting off the docs publishing spec | 19:06 |
| fungi | looks like AJaeger is already on board | 19:06 |
| jeblair | no changes to the actual proposal, just updates to the requirements / current situation | 19:06 |
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| annegentle_ | yay AJaeger | 19:07 |
| annegentle_ | jeblair: thanks for addressing my qs | 19:07 |
| jeblair | it should be reviewed for correctness (which AJaeger has -- and i pulled in a comment from annegentle_ on another spec into there too) | 19:07 |
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| jeblair | annegentle_: thank you! :) | 19:07 |
| fungi | i guess no harm in putting it up for pending approval thursday in that case | 19:07 |
| AJaeger | thanks, jeblair for updating! | 19:07 |
| fungi | #info Voting is open on "Maintenance change to doc publishing spec" until 19:00 UTC Thursday, February 11. | 19:07 |
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| fungi | #topic Priority Efforts: Infra-cloud | 19:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts: Infra-cloud (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:08 | |
| crinkle | hello | 19:08 |
| fungi | hi crinkle! | 19:08 |
| eil397 | hello | 19:08 |
| crinkle | nibalizer and I started working on getting the us west region into production and in nodepool | 19:08 |
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| crinkle | i want to be clear that it is still in 'get a terrible cloud up' stage | 19:08 |
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| crinkle | it's still kilo and has no HA | 19:09 |
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| crinkle | but I haven't heard any objectioins so far to moving forward so that's what we're doing | 19:09 |
| mordred | sounds great | 19:09 |
| clarkb | looks like we got the compute host and controller host site.pp updates in and the ansible group change. From a run ansbile to deploy via puppet we are good right? | 19:09 |
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| rcarrillocruz | has the ssl certificates and puppet boostrapping been sorted out? | 19:09 |
| fungi | crinkle: that makes it not entirely dissimilar from the other clouds we use or have used in the past (no offense to our esteemed sponsors/donors) | 19:09 |
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| clarkb | now it is just a matter of making a deployment we are happy with ? | 19:09 |
| zaro | o/ | 19:10 |
| crinkle | rcarrillocruz: for now we're just using the certs I generated in testing | 19:10 |
| nibalizer | ya so the next step is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/234535/11 | 19:10 |
| fungi | openstack in general is likely always in 'get a terrible cloud up' stage | 19:10 |
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| nibalizer | I've manually tested the steps taht playbook will take | 19:10 |
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| nibalizer | so its a land and go patch | 19:10 |
| nibalizer | at which point infracloud (-west) at least will be managed by the infra team, formally | 19:11 |
| cody-somerville | Do we plan to (eventually) get to point where we can say we're a "best-in-class" reference deployment? | 19:11 |
| crinkle | cody-somerville: yes at some point we would like it to be better :) | 19:11 |
| fungi | as for concerns (or lack thereof) over putting it into production when we know there's a major multi-day/week outage coming up for it, it's not _that_ hard for us to disable it in nodepool and enable it again once it's done | 19:11 |
| nibalizer | fungi: my thoughts exactly | 19:11 |
| crinkle | okay great | 19:11 |
| cody-somerville | Shouldn't nodepool just deal? or is that just an optimization? | 19:11 |
| jeblair | also, i promised to make a way to easily perform the disable/enable in nodepool. it sounds like it's time for me to do that. | 19:12 |
| fungi | cody-somerville: i would love to see it eventually be a model/reference deployment we can point others at as an example of how this can work | 19:12 |
| anteaya | yeah it is just a patch to nodepool.yaml | 19:12 |
| rcarrillocruz | fungi: so it's an iterate thing, rather than getting shiny before prod? | 19:12 |
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| rcarrillocruz | just trying to get an understanding of expectations from users | 19:12 |
| fungi | cody-somerville: nodepool's scheduling/demand algorithm is optimized for providers actually being in a working state, and so we end up being a bit inefficient on allocations when a provider is completely broken | 19:12 |
| jeblair | cody-somerville: if all of the nodes disappear while running jobs, nodepool/zuul may deal (depending on exactly the mechanism), but it may be somewhat disruptive. | 19:12 |
| clarkb | but nodepool will continue to function | 19:13 |
| jeblair | fungi: if it's _completely_ broken, it'll be okay | 19:13 |
| fungi | fair point | 19:13 |
| rcarrillocruz | ok | 19:13 |
| jeblair | fungi: if it's partially broken, it's suboptimal | 19:13 |
| fungi | if nodepool doesn't _realize_ it's broken... badnez | 19:13 |
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| * cody-somerville nods. | 19:13 | |
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| jeblair | and if the nodes just disappear, zuul may restart the jobs | 19:13 |
| jeblair | depending on exactly what jenkins does | 19:13 |
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| jeblair | but what we really want to do is to be able to say "we're taking this region down for planned maintenance, quietly run it down to 0" | 19:14 |
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| jeblair | which is what i promised to add to nodepool as a command, rather than a config change, so that we could eventually automate it and tie it into actual infra-cloud deployment playbooks | 19:14 |
| fungi | ant to that point, it's a simple one-line patch to a config file to do that and undo it again later | 19:14 |
| fungi | but yeah, cli would be awesome | 19:15 |
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| jeblair | and the one-line-patch will work in the interim | 19:15 |
| cody-somerville | Do we have any other organizations willing to donate HW yet? | 19:15 |
| jeblair | cody-somerville: we decided not to ask until we got one up and running | 19:15 |
| cody-somerville | kk | 19:15 |
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| nibalizer | so next steps are to get the playbooks in, get the credentials and definitions in, build a mirror, ?? | 19:16 |
| jeblair | nonetheless, people do still try to offer us hardware from time to time | 19:16 |
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| pabelanger | so, are we sticking to ubuntu 12.04 for bare metal or are we thinking of other OS support (eg: centos7) | 19:16 |
| fungi | yeah, it seems like stretching the effort onto additional hardware beyond what we have before what we have is in a semblance of the state we're looking for will slow down our progress | 19:16 |
| cody-somerville | Are we keeping any notes that might be useful to help improve deploy and operations manuals? | 19:16 |
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| clarkb | my completely biased opinion after spending much time with the git farm is that we should not bother with centos7 | 19:17 |
| crinkle | pabelanger: we are using 14.04 for the baremetal servers | 19:17 |
| rcarrillocruz | cody-somerville: i believe yolanda has been improving some operations docs lately | 19:17 |
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| rcarrillocruz | and yeah, i agree we should put playbooks for maintenance/fix things along with docs | 19:17 |
| pabelanger | crinkle: thanks, typo. | 19:17 |
| cody-somerville | Sweet! :) | 19:17 |
| fungi | and also it's resulting in a lot of configuration management/orchestration that can be reused or pointed to as examples | 19:17 |
| clarkb | we will spend all our time fighting selinux and half the packages don't come from centos anyways | 19:17 |
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| cody-somerville | Is there any room for more help on this? Or do you folks have the right number of cooks in the kitchen for now? | 19:18 |
| eil397 | +1 | 19:18 |
| eil397 | to this question | 19:18 |
| crinkle | cody-somerville: we could use help reviewing topic:infra-cloud | 19:18 |
| pabelanger | clarkb: my only thought about centos7, was to dogfood OpenStack on it | 19:18 |
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| cody-somerville | crinkle: Sweet. Will do. | 19:18 |
| pabelanger | if people are willing to step up and do work on it | 19:18 |
| anteaya | speaking of which, I'm having difficulty finding a starting point for reviewing | 19:18 |
| jeblair | crinkle: ++ | 19:18 |
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| mordred | pabelanger: I think we should wait until we get tihs one up and happy | 19:19 |
| anteaya | I've tried several times and seem to spend a lot of time tracking patches to find the beginning | 19:19 |
| mordred | pabelanger: ten address that question at the same time as additional hardware donations | 19:19 |
| anteaya | is there a beginning patch that I can start with? | 19:19 |
| fungi | cody-somerville: yes, i think spreading the load out a bit so that there are more people implementing and reviewing would have benefit. right now it's mostly still people implementing and so leaves them little time for reviewing | 19:19 |
| jeblair | anteaya: i rather think we're in the middle of things right now | 19:19 |
| crinkle | anteaya: there isn't really a beginning anymore | 19:19 |
| jeblair | anteaya: does reading http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/infra-cloud.html help provide any context? | 19:19 |
| * anteaya exhales | 19:19 | |
| anteaya | well I am trying to review | 19:20 |
| clarkb | crinkle: nibalizer: do you think maybe we are at a point to have a concrete list of todo items nad goals for ft collins? | 19:20 |
| anteaya | and I am finding it difficult | 19:20 |
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| clarkb | eg implment ha db, then ha control plane etc? | 19:20 |
| anteaya | clarkb: that would help | 19:20 |
| pabelanger | mordred: Fair enough. Mostly checking to see if any discussions around that have happened already | 19:20 |
| nibalizer | my big push recently has to been to get us to a point where the -west region is managed just like any other infra service | 19:20 |
| nibalizer | even if its a bit janky | 19:20 |
| clarkb | anteaya: ya thinking it may help others find corners t ohack on | 19:20 |
| pleia2 | post all-the-conferences, I'm struggling to get caught up on other reviews but if there are specific things I should look at, I can work to pitch in | 19:20 |
| clarkb | nibalizer: ++ | 19:20 |
| mordred | pabelanger: a bit - it was mostly that we decided to focus on running things like we run the rest of infra | 19:20 |
| rcarrillocruz | clarkb: that'd be good, but i guess we will see in FC the working state on the infra-cloud | 19:20 |
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| mordred | pabelanger: and since we run the rest of infra on trusty except for the git farm where we can, we went that route | 19:21 |
| rcarrillocruz | i believe we should def. talk about HA | 19:21 |
| anteaya | clarkb: yes, thank you | 19:21 |
| crinkle | clarkb: I started https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-infra-midcycle and would love help refining that | 19:21 |
| nibalizer | right now (worse last week) there were patches that could land, then not do anything, because there wasn't sufficient plumbing | 19:21 |
| jeblair | also http://docs.openstack.org/infra/system-config/infra-cloud.html should be helpful | 19:21 |
| rcarrillocruz | thanks for the link crinkle | 19:21 |
| mordred | pabelanger: since "run service" for infra is the primary goal, with 'dogfood openstack' only a secondary goal | 19:21 |
| clarkb | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-infra-midcycle | 19:21 |
| nibalizer | clarkb: nice | 19:21 |
| clarkb | #link http://docs.openstack.org/infra/system-config/infra-cloud.html | 19:21 |
| nibalizer | er crinkle | 19:21 |
| pabelanger | mordred: understood | 19:22 |
| jeblair | i like that etherpad | 19:22 |
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| nibalizer | ooh i can cross things off on this list | 19:22 |
| nibalizer | woot | 19:22 |
| fungi | that looks like an excellent outline/worklist | 19:22 |
| jeblair | i'd like to become an effective infra-cloud reviewer by, say, lunch on monday. and then review/merge lots of changes the rest of the week. :) | 19:23 |
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| fungi | sounds like a pleasant way to spend a week | 19:23 |
| mordred | jeblair: that might require learning more about how openstack works - is that a thing you're ready for? :) | 19:23 |
| cody-somerville | Do we think we'll be ready to start tackling things like monitoring of the cloud by mid-cycle? | 19:24 |
| mordred | jeblair: as in, are you planning to pack a bucket of xanax? | 19:24 |
| fungi | i'm looking forward to having a good excuse to ignore everything else and focus on something specific for a change | 19:24 |
| jeblair | mordred: if you can do it, i can. ;) | 19:24 |
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| anteaya | fungi: mid-cycles are good for that | 19:24 |
| mordred | jeblair: you've met me, right? with all the crazy and the rage? where do you think that came from ... | 19:24 |
| pleia2 | haha | 19:24 |
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| fungi | mordred: was a quiet, sheepish lad... until the day he found openstack | 19:24 |
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| nibalizer | cody-somerville: i think step 1 is to get infracloud hosts into standard infra monitoring systems like cacti | 19:25 |
| clarkb | mordred: you warn us now. I already sort of learned how openstack works | 19:25 |
| nibalizer | cody-somerville: so if you wanted to write the patch for that, that would be great | 19:25 |
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| jeblair | nibalizer, cody-somerville: ++ it should be monitored from the start | 19:25 |
| fungi | ep, that at least gets us trending on system load, disk space, et ecetera | 19:25 |
| crinkle | nibalizer: cody-somerville ++ | 19:26 |
| cody-somerville | The monasca folks are in FTC if we plan to dogfood that. | 19:26 |
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| fungi | that's the thing that's like ceilometer but isn't ceilometer? | 19:26 |
| jeblair | i don't think that's in our spec | 19:26 |
| rcarrillocruz | yeah | 19:26 |
| clarkb | with the same API | 19:26 |
| rcarrillocruz | with grafana integration | 19:26 |
| rcarrillocruz | nrpe rules support | 19:26 |
| rcarrillocruz | etc | 19:26 |
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| mordred | yah - I don't think we need that for now | 19:27 |
| cody-somerville | monasca is more like nagios | 19:27 |
| fungi | probably best to start with simple system metrics trending and then find out which reinvented openstack wheels we want to dogfood later on | 19:27 |
| rcarrillocruz | i believe we should eventually look at options like that | 19:27 |
| rcarrillocruz | but not in the mid-term | 19:27 |
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| rcarrillocruz | we pretty have deploeyd things in the infra-cloud by doing a lot of hand-fixing | 19:27 |
| mordred | it might be worth a 15 minute chat about it at the mid-cycle just so we're all up to speed on what it is and isn't | 19:27 |
| rcarrillocruz | when we stabilize | 19:27 |
| yolanda | hi, sorry , i'm late | 19:27 |
| rcarrillocruz | and put real automation on everything | 19:27 |
| rcarrillocruz | then we can move on to more stuff | 19:27 |
| rcarrillocruz | my 2 cents | 19:27 |
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| crinkle | rcarrillocruz: ++ | 19:28 |
| cody-somerville | +1 to mordred'd idea | 19:28 |
| fungi | basically, we have puppet preexisting for basic system statistics collected via snmp and trended in cacti. it's a few lines in system-config to turn that on | 19:28 |
| rcarrillocruz | mordred: yeah, which is why i asked earlier the expectation of the users | 19:28 |
| fungi | so that's easy to get going at the start | 19:28 |
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| nibalizer | ssssaarrr | 19:28 |
| nibalizer | aaa | 19:28 |
| nibalizer | i type good | 19:28 |
| mordred | rcarrillocruz: ah - only user expectation is "can run nodepool" :) | 19:28 |
| bkero | sar? O_o | 19:28 |
| rcarrillocruz | lol | 19:29 |
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| jeblair | only one user | 19:29 |
| rcarrillocruz | s/nodepool/doom | 19:29 |
| fungi | bkero: everyone loves sar, right? | 19:29 |
| mordred | two if you count me personally | 19:29 |
| mordred | since I'll clearly use it to serve all my warez | 19:29 |
| bkero | fungi: Sure. When I think of multi-user long-term monitoring I think of sar. | 19:29 |
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| bkero | fungi: while we're at it we should establish that monitoring = dstat + netcat -l | 19:29 |
| fungi | heh | 19:29 |
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| crinkle | I think we can probably move on from this topic | 19:30 |
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| cody-somerville | What about centralizing logging? | 19:30 |
| fungi | thanks crinkle! excellent overview/catch-up on present state | 19:30 |
| cody-somerville | We'll want that from start? | 19:30 |
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| fungi | cody-somerville: probably worth adding to the sprint agenda as a discussion point | 19:30 |
| cody-somerville | Can we pipe that into the existing openstack-infra elk? | 19:30 |
| cody-somerville | kk | 19:30 |
| clarkb | no we cannot pipe it into existing infra elk | 19:31 |
| fungi | the existing elk is doing all it can to keep up with some test log load | 19:31 |
| clarkb | becaues of load and because its public | 19:31 |
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| clarkb | and clouds have too many secrets they divulge | 19:31 |
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| cody-somerville | I thought we had two instances? One for tests and one for infra services? | 19:31 |
| jeblair | cody-somerville: http://docs.openstack.org/infra/system-config/infra-cloud.html | 19:31 |
| fungi | so centralized logging would likely be something dedicated, and also non-public because openstack is still pretty bad at hiding secrets from its logs | 19:31 |
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| jeblair | cody-somerville: that covers some of the questions you are asking now | 19:32 |
| fungi | okay, moving on to the rest of the agenda. thanks again crinkle, nibalizer, yolanda, et al! | 19:32 |
| nibalizer | also all the logs are already centralized, on the one controller | 19:32 |
| rcarrillocruz | nibalizer: haha | 19:32 |
| rcarrillocruz | fair point :D | 19:32 |
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| fungi | #topic Scheduling a Gerrit project rename batch maintenance | 19:32 |
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| fungi | we can hopefully keep this brief | 19:33 |
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| fungi | we punted on it last week because the weekend was rumored to have a battle between the panthers of carolina and the broncos of denver. apparently there was much bloodshed | 19:33 |
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| pleia2 | poor kitties | 19:34 |
| jeblair | the battle raged mere miles from me, so i had to dig a hole in my backyard for safety. | 19:34 |
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| fungi | SergeyLukjanov has a meeting conflict right now but expressed an availability to drive this on a weekday during pacific american times if desired | 19:34 |
| pleia2 | jeblair: nods | 19:34 |
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| jeblair | i put a fruit tree in it when i was done though | 19:34 |
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| anteaya | jeblair: glad you had a backyard in which to dig a hole | 19:34 |
| fungi | however, as pointed out last week it's also our first rename since gerrit 2.11 | 19:34 |
| anteaya | nice use | 19:34 |
| bkero | jeblair: I told you that getting the place with the cold war bunker wasn't a crazy idea | 19:34 |
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| fungi | so we'll likely want a few extra people on hand if things go badly for unforeseen reasons | 19:35 |
| nibalizer | I'm... ishavailable | 19:35 |
| anteaya | I'm traveling on the 13th and gone the rest of the month, available this week though | 19:35 |
| fungi | should we shoot for something like 22:00 utc this friday, or are people busy with travel plans for colorado at that point? | 19:35 |
| pleia2 | I'm around now through sprint time | 19:35 |
| pleia2 | fungi: that wfm | 19:35 |
| anteaya | fungi: friday works for me too | 19:36 |
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| nibalizer | I could do this friday | 19:36 |
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| fungi | to repeat what's on the list, openstack/ceilometer-specs is becoming openstack/telemetry-specs, and openstack/sahara-scenario is becoming openstack/sahara-tests | 19:36 |
| clarkb | I can do friday | 19:36 |
| fungi | okay, that seems like we have a few people available | 19:36 |
| jeblair | friday++ | 19:36 |
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| anteaya | I can wrangle the patches | 19:37 |
| fungi | zaro: are you around too in case we find fun and exciting issues in gerrit this friday trying to rename a couple of projects? | 19:37 |
| fungi | thanks anteaya! | 19:37 |
| anteaya | welcome | 19:37 |
| zaro | unfortunately i will be traveling | 19:37 |
| zaro | or out of town as well | 19:37 |
| fungi | anyone want to volunteer to send a maintenance notification? | 19:37 |
| pleia2 | fungi: sure | 19:37 |
| pleia2 | I'll take care of that post meeting | 19:37 |
| nibalizer | pleia2: thanks | 19:38 |
| fungi | zaro: do you have time this week to look back over our rename process and see if you spot anything you're aware of which might be an issue now that we're on 2.11? | 19:38 |
| pleia2 | I'll also confirm that SergeyLukjanov is ok with 22UTC | 19:38 |
| zaro | fungi: can do | 19:38 |
| fungi | zaro: thanks! | 19:38 |
| pleia2 | it is "pacific american time" but it's pretty late :) | 19:38 |
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| fungi | i'm fine doing it earlier than that too, but there are more devs interacting with our systems the earlier on friday you go | 19:39 |
| * pleia2 nods | 19:39 | |
| anteaya | pleia2: he is in pacific time | 19:40 |
| pleia2 | oh :) | 19:40 |
| fungi | yeah, he's at mirantis's office in california i think? | 19:40 |
| anteaya | yeah I didn't know either | 19:40 |
| anteaya | sounds like it | 19:40 |
| anteaya | there for a few months then relocating there I think? | 19:40 |
| fungi | #info Gerrit will be offline 22:00-23:00 UTC for scheduled maintenance to perform project renames | 19:41 |
| pleia2 | neat, we should meet up | 19:41 |
| fungi | okay, thanks everyone who's helping with that | 19:41 |
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| fungi | if gerrit is no different, then this will be a quick one (just two repos) but a good way to find out i guess | 19:41 |
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| anteaya | yup, glad you are giving us the hour | 19:41 |
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| fungi | #topic Infra-cloud Sprint is under two weeks away, any final logistical details? (pleia2) | 19:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Infra-cloud Sprint is under two weeks away, any final logistical details? (pleia2) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:42 | |
| pleia2 | so, hopefully we can keep this short, but I have a few things for this topic | 19:42 |
| rcarrillocruz | hmm, yeah | 19:42 |
| rcarrillocruz | first time in FC | 19:42 |
| * rcarrillocruz reds | 19:42 | |
| * rcarrillocruz reads even | 19:42 | |
| fungi | my first time as well | 19:42 |
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| pleia2 | so jhesketh won't be able to attend, so I think I am the defacto point on organzing now since I've been working with the on site HPE people | 19:42 |
| nibalizer | everyone should make sure they bought a ticket to denver and not dallas | 19:42 |
| fungi | i didn't work at hp long enough to get the road tour of officies | 19:42 |
| * jhesketh sadly cannot make it :-( | 19:42 | |
| rcarrillocruz | lol | 19:42 |
| nibalizer | not saying i screwed that up, just make sure | 19:42 |
| anteaya | jhesketh: oh no | 19:43 |
| pleia2 | does anyone have any questions as far as logistics that I should ask the HPE folks about? | 19:43 |
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| nibalizer | jhesketh: TT | 19:43 |
| anteaya | jhesketh: I was looking forward to you being there | 19:43 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: always good advice | 19:43 |
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| fungi | hah | 19:43 |
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| jhesketh | anteaya: me too! | 19:43 |
| pleia2 | our wiki page was copied from another, and says "Hotels provide shuttle bus service to the HP office. See front desk to reserve." which no know knows about, so they're going to look into it for us | 19:43 |
| anteaya | nibalizer: glad you will be in the intended city | 19:43 |
| pleia2 | I'm not sure that's actually true :) | 19:43 |
| cody-somerville | I put that there. | 19:43 |
| cody-somerville | And it is true. | 19:44 |
| cody-somerville | I wrote all of that stuff. | 19:44 |
| pleia2 | cody-somerville: oh ok, the admin organizing said she'd call the hotels and check | 19:44 |
| fungi | pleia2: cody-somerville: thanks--i have not booked a rental car and figured i'd just hitch a ride on the hotel shuttle because of that comment on the wiki ;) | 19:44 |
| pleia2 | fungi: yeah, me too | 19:44 |
| cody-somerville | I think the Courtyard is a new hotel listed so unsure about that one. | 19:44 |
| cody-somerville | but I have to imagine they do shuttle as well | 19:44 |
| cody-somerville | Intel and a bunch of other companies are all there. | 19:45 |
| pleia2 | cody-somerville: like a "we'll take you within 3 miles" kind of shuttle? | 19:45 |
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| cody-somerville | pleia2: Yup. | 19:45 |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Sprints/InfraMitakaSprint | 19:45 |
| pleia2 | ok, good to know | 19:45 |
| fungi | just for the benefit of those reading the logs later | 19:45 |
| jeblair | oh, 3 miles from your origin, not 3 miles from your destination :) | 19:45 |
| pleia2 | lunches will be catered, we're organizing that now with the listed dietary restrictions in mind | 19:45 |
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| cody-somerville | Cambria hotel & Suites has nicer rooms and restaurant than the Hilton FYI. | 19:45 |
| anteaya | I do recommending getting a rental car | 19:46 |
| pleia2 | if anyone else has logistic questions for HPE, let me know and I'll ask :) | 19:46 |
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| olaph | and the train track run right by the hilton, which can suck at 4am... | 19:46 |
| anteaya | as we are way out on the edge by the campus and downtown is at least 20 minutes drive | 19:46 |
| fungi | thanks pleia2! i'll make sure to direct any your way | 19:46 |
| pleia2 | the other half of this agenda item: | 19:46 |
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| jeblair | olaph: also gtk | 19:46 |
| pleia2 | should we make some plans as to schedule for the week? | 19:46 |
| anteaya | olaph: that is the downtown hilton, not the hilton garden inn | 19:46 |
| anteaya | the hilton garden in by the hpe campus has no train | 19:46 |
| cody-somerville | olaph: You might be thinking of the hilton downtown. There is no train by the Hilton near the office. | 19:47 |
| olaph | anteaya: downtown, by campus | 19:47 |
| pleia2 | I'd really really appreciate an informal presentation to kick the week off about our hardware and topology+tooling of the deployment | 19:47 |
| anteaya | there are two hiltons | 19:47 |
| anteaya | one has a train, one does not | 19:47 |
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| pleia2 | I know it's all in the etherpad and reviews, etc etc, but it's a lot to get my head around (especially considering the rest of my workload) | 19:47 |
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| rcarrillocruz | pleia2: about the infra cloud to the FC folks? | 19:47 |
| jeblair | pleia2: looks like that's anticipated at the top of https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-infra-midcycle ? | 19:47 |
| pleia2 | rcarrillocruz: to me :) | 19:47 |
| rcarrillocruz | ah :D | 19:47 |
| clarkb | a blurb on the networking would probably be helpful | 19:47 |
| jeblair | pleia2: 'least, that's how i read that... crinkle ? | 19:47 |
| crinkle | pleia2: I can work on putting that together | 19:47 |
| pleia2 | jeblair: yeah, I'm hoping that's a proposed topic to discuss, not just "read this and you'll be all ready!" | 19:47 |
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| pleia2 | crinkle: you rock, thanks | 19:48 |
| fungi | network diagram scribbled on a whiteboard would be appreciated, yes | 19:48 |
| jeblair | <cloud> | 19:48 |
| mordred | pleia2: I expect to be able to ask uninformed questions when I arrive late and be chastised for not knowing | 19:48 |
| fungi | thanks crinkle! | 19:48 |
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| pleia2 | that's all from me on this topic | 19:48 |
| pabelanger | anteaya: a quick google shows uber in fort collins too | 19:48 |
| clarkb | mordred: are you ready for elton? | 19:48 |
| anteaya | pabelanger: I've never used it | 19:48 |
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| mordred | clarkb: I do not believe I will experience sir john | 19:48 |
| anteaya | I have no review to offer | 19:48 |
| anteaya | I drive in fort collins | 19:49 |
| fungi | pabelanger: did you get squared away as to whether we'll be able to add you to the list of attendees? | 19:49 |
| pleia2 | pabelanger is all set :) | 19:49 |
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| fungi | would love to have you participate | 19:49 |
| fungi | awesome | 19:49 |
| clarkb | do we want semi planned dinner plans? | 19:49 |
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| clarkb | or just free for all day of? | 19:49 |
| pabelanger | fungi: pleia2: indeed. will be making the trip | 19:49 |
| fungi | we can probably talk dinners off-meeting | 19:49 |
| jeblair | i plan on eating dinner | 19:49 |
| anteaya | clarkb: we can do that once we arrive | 19:49 |
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| fungi | #topic AFS for logs/docs (jeblair) | 19:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "AFS for logs/docs (jeblair) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:50 | |
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| anteaya | most places can accomodate a group with a few hours notice | 19:50 |
| fungi | you have 10 minutes | 19:50 |
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| jeblair | We are using AFS for real now and have learned some things. | 19:50 |
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| jeblair | Are we ready to seriously consider it for logs/docs? Any other prereqs? | 19:50 |
| jeblair | i have specs up for both of those topics... | 19:50 |
| jhesketh | What have we learned? | 19:50 |
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| fungi | well, that afs is awesome, for one | 19:50 |
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| jeblair | jhesketh: that serving data from caches is quite fast, as fast as local apache | 19:51 |
| mordred | yah. it's working quite pleasingly well | 19:51 |
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| pabelanger | \o/ | 19:51 |
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| fungi | also the cache size seems to be reasonable for the things we've done so far | 19:51 |
| clarkb | 50GB right? | 19:51 |
| mordred | initial publication of a large read-write volume to the read-only replicas is not fast - but subsequent publications run at reasonable rates | 19:52 |
| jeblair | jhesketh: that read-only replication cross-data centers is slower than we'd like, but as long as our read-only volumes aren't radically changing, it's okay | 19:52 |
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| mordred | heh | 19:52 |
| jeblair | mordred: :) | 19:52 |
| fungi | and simple to expand if we're using lvm for the cache locatioj | 19:52 |
| fungi | location | 19:52 |
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| jhesketh | How does afs save us from having huge volumes? | 19:52 |
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| fungi | we can shard afs and present it as one common file tree | 19:52 |
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| fungi | as one option | 19:52 |
| mordred | jhesketh: we can spread AFS volumes across multiple file servers ... ^^ that | 19:53 |
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| jhesketh | Ah cool, didn't know it sharded. Are we currently doing that? | 19:53 |
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| mordred | well - to be clear - it doesn't shard in the way that ceph shards | 19:54 |
| fungi | the current space limitation on static.o.o is mostly a function of maximum cinder volume size in rackspace multiplied by maximum number of vdb devices we can attach to a xen domu for the version rackspace is running | 19:54 |
| mordred | it shards in that you can create volumes across many fileservers | 19:54 |
| jeblair | it's like, if we lose a server or partition, we would lose a part of the directory tree, but not the whole thing | 19:54 |
| mordred | and then you can mount those volumes into contiguous locations in the AFS tree | 19:54 |
| fungi | right, i used the term shard loosely | 19:54 |
| mordred | so we currently have multiple volumes | 19:54 |
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| fungi | you could say that in a way we're already doing it, insofar as afs is a _global_ filesystem and we're just one part of the global afs file tree | 19:55 |
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| jeblair | (this applies to read-write volumes, which we would use for logs; for docs, we can put them on read-only volumes and then we would be faut-tolerant) | 19:55 |
| mordred | but they are all on the same fileservers - we have mirror.ubuntu mirror.pypi mirror.wheel.trustyx64 mirror.npm and mirror.git | 19:55 |
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| jhesketh | So is there any duplication? | 19:55 |
| mordred | jhesketh: there can be | 19:55 |
| mordred | jhesketh: we have read-only replicas of our mirror volumes currently | 19:56 |
| jhesketh | Perhaps we should turn that on first to see if there are any side effects or significant performance issues? | 19:56 |
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| mordred | jhesketh: each of our mirror volumes has a rw volume and 2 read only replicas | 19:56 |
| fungi | i'll #link the specs jeblair mentioned on the agenda for reference | 19:57 |
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| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/269928 | 19:57 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/276482 | 19:57 |
| mordred | the publication process is to write to the read/write volume and then run vos release which pushes new copies out to the read-only replicas | 19:57 |
| mordred | this works amazingly well for mirrors | 19:57 |
| jhesketh | Can we restore from read only replicas? | 19:57 |
| mordred | and is also a nice thing for docs | 19:57 |
| mordred | yes | 19:57 |
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| mordred | you can promote a read-only volume to take over as the read-write volume | 19:57 |
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| jeblair | so with only a few mins left -- how should we proceed? continue this conversation in channel/ml/spec reviews/...? | 19:58 |
| jhesketh | Okay sounds useful | 19:58 |
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| fungi | which gets to why we have more than one, and put them in different locations/networks | 19:58 |
| mordred | of course, one of my favorite things is that I can do "ls /afs/openstack.org/mirror/ubuntu" on my local machine :) | 19:58 |
| fungi | i am in favor of moving discussion to the specs and, if necessary, irc/ml | 19:58 |
| mordred | jeblair: I agree with fungi | 19:58 |
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| jhesketh | works for me | 19:59 |
| jeblair | cool | 19:59 |
| jeblair | thanks! | 19:59 |
| fungi | thanks jeblair! | 19:59 |
| fungi | #topic Open discussion | 19:59 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:59 | |
| fungi | you have 30 seconds ;) | 19:59 |
| eil397 | : - ) | 19:59 |
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| fungi | riveting | 19:59 |
| jhesketh | Should we do a post mortem of swift logs as part of the afs spec or discussion? | 20:00 |
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| fungi | would be useful, yes | 20:00 |
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| fungi | we're out of time--thanks everyone! | 20:00 |
| fungi | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| anteaya | fungi: I see you in an isma wig | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 9 20:00:21 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-02-09-19.02.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-02-09-19.02.txt | 20:00 |
| ttx | ... | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-02-09-19.02.log.html | 20:00 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 20:00 |
| devananda | o/ | 20:00 |
| mestery | o/ | 20:00 |
| jaypipes | ............o/ | 20:00 |
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| ttx | russellb, annegentle, lifeless, mordred, dtroyer, markmcclain, jeblair, sdague, dhellmann: around ? | 20:00 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:00 |
| jeblair | ttx: i am | 20:01 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:01 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 20:01 |
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| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 9 20:01:10 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| russellb | hi | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| thingee | o/ | 20:01 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:01 |
| ttx | Hi everyone! | 20:01 |
| mordred | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | Here is our agenda for today: | 20:01 |
| eil397 | o/ | 20:01 |
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| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:01 |
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| ttx | #topic Applying Tacker for Big Tent | 20:01 |
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| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/276417 | 20:01 |
| ttx | Quick background | 20:01 |
| ttx | As I understand it (russellb please correct me if I got it wrong) | 20:01 |
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| ttx | Tacker is a NFV component designed to fit in the ETSI architecture model | 20:02 |
| ttx | OpenStack is used as the Virtualized Infrastructure Manager in the model | 20:02 |
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| ttx | And Tacker provides the glue between NFV and OpenStack by implementing the "VNF Manager" and "Orchestrator" components of the ETSI framework | 20:02 |
| ttx | #link https://www.opnfv.org/software/technical-overview | 20:02 |
| ttx | So I suppose it's not meant to be enduser-facing APIs | 20:02 |
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| ttx | While it's not very advanced, they already have a variety of contributing organizations | 20:02 |
| dhellmann | is this a special case for what heat does? or is it using heat? | 20:02 |
| russellb | roughly ... I thought this was the VNF manager | 20:02 |
| russellb | it's using heat | 20:02 |
| mestery | russellb: I thought it was that plus something else? | 20:02 |
| russellb | well ... it's also got some custom SFC stuff ... | 20:03 |
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| mestery | It's the VNF manager AND the orchestrator | 20:03 |
| ttx | russellb: btw: https://imgflip.com/i/yvatt | 20:03 |
| mestery | russellb: OF course it does | 20:03 |
| dtroyer | o/ | 20:03 |
| russellb | it uses Heat to create VMs that are used to implement networking services | 20:03 |
| ttx | They have been around for a while now and have been using the ML and IRC meetings for open collaboration | 20:03 |
| thingee | ttx: ++ | 20:03 |
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| russellb | it *also* includes an API for doing SFC, but it calls directly into OpenDaylight to do so | 20:03 |
| russellb | it really needs to be reworked to integrate properly with Neutron | 20:04 |
| russellb | but I think they have good intent to do so | 20:04 |
| russellb | (yes this is an acronym overload space.....) | 20:04 |
| mestery | russellb: I'd think so. Do they work with ONOS too with that SFC API? | 20:04 |
| ttx | Looks like they still need to adjust some tags on the proposal | 20:04 |
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| russellb | not positive, i think it's been ODL focused so far | 20:04 |
| * dhellmann wonders what language mestery is speaking | 20:04 | |
| ttx | questions / comments ? | 20:04 |
| annegentle_ | heh I was still looking up esti | 20:04 |
| russellb | ETSI == standards body | 20:04 |
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| flaper87 | I don't have any major objection against this proposal. I dropped 2 nits on the patch and one of them I believe is being worked out as we speak | 20:05 |
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| ttx | flaper87: I wouldn't be surprised if they could not assert anything at this stage | 20:05 |
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| mestery | I posted my comments on the SFC API mess | 20:05 |
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| annegentle_ | is tacker already in the neutron stadium? | 20:05 |
| ttx | flaper87: unless you know something that I don't | 20:06 |
| * dhellmann given our recent open core discussion, and the general nature of the networking | 20:06 | |
| dhellmann | oops | 20:06 |
| mestery | annegentle_: It was never in the neutron stadium | 20:06 |
| * annegentle_ tries to keep up | 20:06 | |
| flaper87 | ttx: they are changing the release model based on the latest comment | 20:06 |
| dhellmann | given our recent open core discussion, and the general nature of the networking space, how much of this is actually open? | 20:06 |
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| ttx | flaper87: ah, nice | 20:06 |
| sdague | as this is mostly network oriented I'd be highly currious on russellb, mestery, and markmcclain's feelings here | 20:06 |
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| flaper87 | and the standard-deprecation one would be nice to have | 20:06 |
| mestery | sdague: My main concern is on yet another SFC API | 20:06 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: I think it's pretty neutral. It just exposes OpenStack resources in a wat NFV likes to have them | 20:06 |
| mestery | Otherwise, I have no concerns | 20:06 |
| russellb | tacker is not a part of neutron, in fact it bypasses neutron | 20:06 |
| ttx | way* | 20:06 |
| flaper87 | but it depends on how solid they think their API is | 20:07 |
| mestery | Well, I mean other htan it ties directly to ODL | 20:07 |
| lifeless | ttx: o/ | 20:07 |
| mestery | tacker has NEVER been a part of neutron | 20:07 |
| russellb | it overlaps with part of neutron in the API space | 20:07 |
| russellb | but they've said they want to integrate with neutron | 20:07 |
| mestery | Even when it was NOT an NFV orchestrator | 20:07 |
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| russellb | really, if folks want a more in depth analysis on this, i'm happy to do so, but would need more time to do a dive and write something up on the review | 20:07 |
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| jaypipes | my main concern (as just noted in my vote) is that Tacker is focused on NFV Orchestration, and so I believe belongs best in the OPNFV ecosystem, not OpenStack itself. | 20:07 |
| * edleafe wanders in late, once again | 20:07 | |
| markmcclain | my only observation is we've tried to discuss working with them in prior cycles | 20:07 |
| mestery | jaypipes: Seems reasonable to me at first glance | 20:08 |
| dhellmann | russellb : "bypasses neutron" in what way? | 20:08 |
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| russellb | jaypipes: but OPNFV doesn't produce code, in theory | 20:08 |
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| jaypipes | russellb: they do, apparently. :) | 20:08 |
| russellb | dhellmann: implementing SFC requires coordination with what Neutron does | 20:08 |
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| russellb | to do things in a way that is compatible with all Neutron backends | 20:08 |
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| markmcclain | and the functionality between astara and tacker do overlap is many places | 20:08 |
| russellb | this sort of ignores that and calls directly into an SDN controller | 20:08 |
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| mestery | Right | 20:08 |
| dhellmann | russellb : so is it incompatible with neutron? or supplemental? | 20:09 |
| russellb | depends on what backend you use | 20:09 |
| * ttx thought he understood it but now is confused | 20:09 | |
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| russellb | it's messy. | 20:09 |
| mestery | russellb: It is | 20:09 |
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| mestery | Because it talks directly to ODL | 20:09 |
| mestery | Which sets up networkign with neutron, right? | 20:09 |
| annegentle_ | so we're sort of supporting both reference architectures and changes to neutron by enabling tacker in the ecosystem? | 20:09 |
| mestery | annegentle_: There are no neutron changes proposed | 20:09 |
| dhellmann | so it uses heat to tell nova to make vms to run software to do network things, but then bypasses neutron to actually manage the networks connected to those vms? | 20:09 |
| mestery | dhellmann: Good summary | 20:10 |
| russellb | dhellmann: yes | 20:10 |
| russellb | though the networks are neutron networks | 20:10 |
| dtroyer | that doesn't sound too friendly to the overall could | 20:10 |
| flaper87 | holy moly | 20:10 |
| dtroyer | cloud | 20:10 |
| ttx | russellb: but that is what NFV is about, right | 20:10 |
| russellb | ttx: which part | 20:10 |
| mestery | ttx: NFV is about bypassing neutron? | 20:10 |
| ttx | using vms to do networking | 20:10 |
| mestery | I may quote you on that ttx | 20:10 |
| russellb | using vms to do networking, yes | 20:10 |
| flaper87 | mestery: lol | 20:10 |
| russellb | from a high level, this is all sane | 20:10 |
| dhellmann | ttx: that's not the part that concerns me, the bypassing bit is | 20:10 |
| sdague | service vms right? | 20:10 |
| russellb | it needs to be integrated better | 20:10 |
| russellb | (if we care to include that in criteria) | 20:11 |
| dtroyer | the 'depends on which backend' part concerns me | 20:11 |
| mestery | russellb: Yes, because right now it's bypassing neutron and using ODL directly | 20:11 |
| mestery | russellb: Isn't it? Or is it no longer doing that? | 20:11 |
| sdague | doing service vms was a huge part of nfv | 20:11 |
| russellb | it is yes | 20:11 |
| russellb | service vms *is* NFV :) | 20:11 |
| mestery | OK, I knew at one point it was | 20:11 |
| flaper87 | russellb: you mentioned you've seen the intent from the team to integrate better with neutron, right? | 20:11 |
| sdague | :) | 20:11 |
| mordred | SO ... I do not believe I need to understand the technical implementation of tacker nor whether it's a good idea or not that it does so | 20:11 |
| russellb | flaper87: yes | 20:11 |
| flaper87 | Should this be put on-hold and wait until that happens ? | 20:11 |
| dhellmann | how does this relate to any of our networking projects other than neutron? | 20:11 |
| jaypipes | do we not have a tacker representative here? | 20:11 |
| russellb | flaper87: we aren't really holding other projects to integration bars like that.... | 20:11 |
| mestery | flaper87: ++ | 20:11 |
| mordred | the only concern that seems relevant is the neutron bypass, but that seems to be roadmap - I do not think it's necessary to make them integrate with neutron | 20:12 |
| russellb | not that i disagree with the idea, just saying | 20:12 |
| markmcclain | dhellmann: it shares similar functionality as Astara | 20:12 |
| sridhar_ram | jaypipes: yes, listening in... | 20:12 |
| ttx | mordred: yeah, that's where I am too | 20:12 |
| russellb | i don't think overlap with astara is really relevant | 20:12 |
| dhellmann | markmcclain : does astara have an API now? | 20:12 |
| russellb | given that astara itself overlapped with existing stuff significantly, as well | 20:12 |
| markmcclain | plugin API yes | 20:12 |
| markmcclain | public facing REST API no | 20:12 |
| jaypipes | sridhar_ram: do you have any comments or answers to the above lines of questioning and commentary? | 20:12 |
| dhellmann | markmcclain : ok | 20:12 |
| mordred | as both astara and takcker are deployer-oriented things without end-user APIs - it does not bother me that they have overlap | 20:12 |
| ttx | mordred: I think they help with the "ubiquitous" part of the mission by making openstack consumable by NFV folks | 20:12 |
| mordred | ttx: I agree | 20:12 |
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| dhellmann | mordred : I thought tacker had a rest api? | 20:13 |
| ttx | even if the way they consumz it makes little sense to us | 20:13 |
| flaper87 | that's what they claim in the patch | 20:13 |
| sdague | russellb / mestery - how does it completely bypass neutron? How are actually compute VMs connected in this environment? | 20:13 |
| thingee | dhellmann: it does | 20:13 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: rest API ~= end user API I presume | 20:13 |
| mordred | dhellmann: I thought russel said that it wasn't supposed to be for end-users of the cloud | 20:13 |
| thingee | dhellmann: note in the comments when I asked about their rest api | 20:13 |
| sridhar_ram | jaypipes: our preference / plan is to always use neutron-sfc, we will cut-over to use that and deprecate direct calls to ODL once neutron-sfc is stable | 20:13 |
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| russellb | omg i can't keep up | 20:13 |
| mestery | sdague: It's talking to ODL to wire the networking up I believe, russellb correct me if I'm wrong here | 20:13 |
| thingee | mordred: that maybe true, but they still have a rest api | 20:13 |
| flaper87 | russellb: me neither | 20:13 |
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| dhellmann | russellb : it's all the acronyms | 20:13 |
| mestery | sridhar_ram: Does this use ODL directly to wire networking up for the VMs? | 20:13 |
| sdague | mestery: right, but you still need to coordinate with nova somehow | 20:14 |
| mordred | dhellmann: +100 | 20:14 |
| ttx | thingee: not really a enduser-oriented one though | 20:14 |
| mestery | sdague: Exactly, that's the part I'm not 100% sure on, sridhar_ram may know | 20:14 |
| * dhellmann is acronumb | 20:14 | |
| russellb | it's unrelated to actual VIF plugging | 20:14 |
| thingee | ttx: correct, still a rest api though | 20:14 |
| markmcclain | my issue is gratuitous duplication and that we've attempted in the past to reach out and work together where there's overlap and were basically rebuffed saying join us or else | 20:14 |
| flaper87 | Can we have 1 convo? Like focusing on something ? It feels like we have 4 discussions now and it's networking we're talking about | 20:14 |
| mordred | flaper87: ++ | 20:14 |
| mestery | flaper87: Just get more bandwidth | 20:14 |
| * mestery ducks | 20:14 | |
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| ttx | voice is to russellb so that he can empty his buffer | 20:14 |
| mordred | markmcclain: that is a statement that concerns me | 20:14 |
| russellb | my overflowed and emptied | 20:14 |
| flaper87 | mestery: LOOOOL | 20:14 |
| sridhar_ram | mestery: there are couple of tacker-sfc backend planned .. one is for ODL that is further along (it hasn't landed yet). Another backend is planned for neutron-sfc | 20:15 |
| flaper87 | Looks like we have sridhar_ram here and he can elaborate on some questions | 20:15 |
| sridhar_ram | mestery: in fact neutron-sfc team members like cathy, louisef are planning to contribute the tacker part of the integration | 20:15 |
| flaper87 | Can we start by asking 1 at a time? | 20:15 |
| flaper87 | pretty please? | 20:15 |
| mestery | sridhar_ram: cool | 20:15 |
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| sridhar_ram | mestery: the mess is only becoz.. these things evolved in parallel. initially we were not sure if / when neutron-sfc will flourish in the wild :) | 20:16 |
| russellb | i think i'd rather follow up on the review with some in depth comments at this point | 20:16 |
| * rockyg is grateful for a chance to catch up | 20:16 | |
| odyssey4me | heh, and now there's no conversation :p | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | sridhar_ram : where do the images managed by tacker come from? | 20:16 |
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| ttx | odyssey4me: I blame flaper87 | 20:16 |
| sridhar_ram | dhellmann: glance | 20:16 |
| flaper87 | russellb: ++ sounds fair to me | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | sridhar_ram : well, where does glance get them? are they defined as part of tacker? provided by the deployer? vendors? | 20:16 |
| * flaper87 puts the blame hat on | 20:17 | |
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| russellb | I *think* I have a decent idea of where the concerns/questions are, and hopefully I can try to address them | 20:17 |
| russellb | or at least express them on the review to give a chance for a clear answer | 20:17 |
| ttx | OK, maybe we could all post our concerns in one line really fast | 20:17 |
| ttx | if we have some | 20:17 |
| russellb | sure, and give me an action to follow up on the review | 20:17 |
| sridhar_ram | dhellmann: yes, there are two model.. operators first uploads to glance and tacker nfv templates references them .. and another feature (under works) to automatically upload images into glance as part of template onboard | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | I would like to understand how much of this is useful on its own, in light of our recent discussion about open core. | 20:18 |
| ttx | markmcclain: I hear you're concerned with lack of cooperation and gratuitous duplication | 20:18 |
| mestery | dhellmann: You're asking are their open source images to use, right? That's a good question! | 20:18 |
| ttx | and there is some concern around how it works around neutron, but I fear we enter implementation space | 20:18 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: arguably a gateway service is not useful on its own | 20:19 |
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| russellb | yep, some of that may be interesting to explore in comments, though it may not affect the actual vote | 20:19 |
| dhellmann | sridhar_ram : what I'm worried about is how someone wanting to use this gets a useful image to have tacker manage. Does it come with tacker? Do build instructions come with tacker? Do they have to make it up? Do they have to buy it separately? | 20:19 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: like EC2API | 20:19 |
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| russellb | it's worse than just images | 20:19 |
| annegentle_ | dhellmann: my question as well | 20:19 |
| thingee | dhellmann: +1 also from a testing perspective, please. | 20:19 |
| russellb | even the infrastructure that this depends on is WIP | 20:19 |
| russellb | OVS itself doesn't even have the functionality this depends on merged yet | 20:20 |
| dhellmann | ttx: EC2API can be used by pointing it at OpenStack | 20:20 |
| rockyg | thingee ++ | 20:20 |
| sridhar_ram | dhellmann: we use OpenWRT as a reference VNF... again the hope is tacker will be able to orchestrate any type of vnfs both opensource and 3rd party | 20:20 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I think this is closer to the way Poppy works, where you need something besides the tacker code to make it useful, and it's not clear that something is freely available or open source | 20:21 |
| mestery | sridhar_ram: Excellent, that's good to know (regarding OpenWRT). | 20:21 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: i see your point | 20:21 |
| russellb | dhellmann: not quite, it's all open source stuff | 20:21 |
| russellb | but there's a ton of WIP here | 20:21 |
| mestery | OpenWRT is open source last time I checked | 20:21 |
| fungi | openwrt is a pretty excellent network operating system in fact (now if only openbsd could be properly virtualized) | 20:22 |
| dhellmann | russellb : ok, I said "not clear" -- I'm not familiar with the space | 20:22 |
| jeblair | using openwrt for this is kind of a cool idea | 20:22 |
| dtroyer | mestery: it still is ;) | 20:22 |
| russellb | dhellmann: yep, just answering :) | 20:22 |
| clarkb | mestery: it depends on the imgae iirc | 20:22 |
| clarkb | some come with driver blobs | 20:22 |
| clarkb | but you can do it completely open source | 20:22 |
| fungi | which for a virtual appliance should hopefully be entirely unnecessary | 20:22 |
| clarkb | fungi: yup | 20:23 |
| mestery | clarkb: Isn't that the case for many Linux distros? (But we're taking a sideways ride ...) | 20:23 |
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| dtroyer | a project like this must build their own images to be useful… | 20:23 |
| sridhar_ram | clarkb: recent openwrt images works nicely with tacker.. we are auto uploading the image as part of tacker devstack install | 20:23 |
| clarkb | mestery: yup not trying to put a value assignment on it either way. Just pointing out that "openwrt" as a whole may not be foss | 20:23 |
| jaypipes | "physical interface that offers the network connections between instances of NS, VNF, VNFC (based on the VDU information element), PNF and a VL" god help us. | 20:23 |
| clarkb | depends on how you built it where you got it from | 20:23 |
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| mestery | sridhar_ram: Out of curiosity, what types of VNFs does OpenWRT provide? | 20:23 |
| ttx | OK, so in summary I think we can say that given its rather novel position wrt the openstack ecosystem, Tacker inclusion needs careful consideration, and we'll continue clarifying on the review and at next TC meeting | 20:24 |
| dhellmann | clarkb : I'm only concerned that there is at least one way that it is open source, not that we block closed source options | 20:24 |
| jaypipes | mestery: it doesn't. | 20:24 |
| jeblair | dhellmann: ++ | 20:24 |
| mestery | jaypipes: That's what I was figuring :) | 20:24 |
| jaypipes | mestery: it's just the base OS image to build VNFs from. | 20:24 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: ++ | 20:24 |
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| sridhar_ram | mestery: it is a general purpose virtual router with routing, firewall, etc.. it also has installable pkg mgmt some of which might be from 3rd party.. we don't rely on them | 20:24 |
| ttx | also ETOOMANYACRONYMS | 20:24 |
| anteaya | ttx ++ | 20:25 |
| jaypipes | ttx: welcome to telco :) | 20:25 |
| ttx | so digging in is not easy | 20:25 |
| mestery | jaypipes: Say what? So they use OpenWRT for only routing then by default? I'm confused. | 20:25 |
| thingee | IMO, if the open source alternative doesn't do what the API says it should, then it's not a working OSS alternative in the project. That's a blocker IMO if it's a bunch of work in progress. | 20:25 |
| dtroyer | OpenWRT makes a pretty decent micro-Linux base for a lot of things…not just routers | 20:25 |
| ttx | I could see it going both ways. in OpenStack as the NFV entry point, or outside OpenStack as something that consumes OpenStack | 20:26 |
| jaypipes | mestery: OpenWRT is simply a Linux distribution stripped down with a number of useful network control programs in it. A VNF would be a virtual machine launched from an openWRT image that wires together some of those network control programs and facilitates firewalling, load balancing, packet core transfer, etc | 20:26 |
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| russellb | but to make that useful, it has to actually instruct the underlying network implemenation to send packets through it | 20:27 |
| russellb | and it seems that's not actually merged at all | 20:27 |
| jaypipes | thingee: just don't use the acronym OSS. OSS means something different in telco-land :) | 20:27 |
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| jaypipes | thingee: Operational Support Systems | 20:27 |
| russellb | and the one that's furthest along is specific to one SDN controller, and bypasses neutron | 20:27 |
| ttx | jaypipes: what doesn't | 20:27 |
| jaypipes | heh, indeed | 20:27 |
| * flaper87 back... he hopes | 20:28 | |
| mestery | russellb: Then why are we adding this to openstack? | 20:28 |
| thingee | jaypipes: fair point! | 20:28 |
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| ttx | russellb: could you quickly expand on the "OPNFV doesn't do code" assertion ? | 20:28 |
| mestery | If that's the case, we should wait | 20:28 |
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| russellb | ttx: OPNFV is a test and integration project | 20:28 |
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| ttx | russellb: I thought they were producing something that used OpenStack and needed Tacker to interface | 20:28 |
| russellb | they may write code, but their intent is to do all coding in upstreams | 20:28 |
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| annegentle_ | so do they need tacker as their upstream? | 20:28 |
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| russellb | they would never own code within OPNFV | 20:28 |
| russellb | that's the idea. | 20:29 |
| jaypipes | russellb: it's a reference implementation of ETSI NFV architecture on top of ODL and OpenStack. I don't see why Tacker doesn't better belong in OPNFV. | 20:29 |
| ttx | Ah. So they would rather have the openstack-touching piece in OpenStack | 20:29 |
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| russellb | yes. | 20:29 |
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| annegentle_ | still, it's a ref arch | 20:29 |
| russellb | jaypipes: OPNFV doesn't see it that way. they'd like to add whatever is needed openstack itself. | 20:29 |
| annegentle_ | (right?) | 20:29 |
| lifeless | thats kinda weird | 20:29 |
| jaypipes | russellb: do we take direction from OPNFV now? :) | 20:29 |
| mestery | lol | 20:29 |
| russellb | no.... | 20:29 |
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| jaypipes | russellb: that came out wrong, sorry... | 20:30 |
| russellb | the point is, they want to do this "thing" in OpenStack, and look to the community on the best way to do it. | 20:30 |
| russellb | and if we see it as "not integrated well enough", that's good feedback | 20:30 |
| annegentle_ | ok | 20:30 |
| russellb | in fact, i have provided that feedback, and it seems to be taken | 20:30 |
| ttx | OK, I think we have primed the pump now. I suggest we move on to next topic | 20:30 |
| jaypipes | russellb: I'm trying to point out that NFV != OpenStack and Tacker is NFV more than OpenStack, IMNSHO. | 20:30 |
| lifeless | ok, thats cool. are they participating in design summit sessions? | 20:30 |
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| ttx | and use the review to talk between now and next meeting | 20:30 |
| russellb | sounds good | 20:30 |
| mestery | ++ | 20:31 |
| ttx | plenty of un in next topic too! | 20:31 |
| ttx | +f* | 20:31 |
| ttx | #topic Adds the Poppy CDN project to the Governance Repository | 20:31 |
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| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/273756 | 20:31 |
| ttx | So, round 2 of discussions around Poppy | 20:31 |
| ttx | The main objection raised so far is around the nature of the service vs. the OpenStack mission | 20:31 |
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| ttx | I would summarize as: should a service which is only proxying to non-OpenStack commercial services be considered part of our "Open Source Cloud Computing platform". | 20:31 |
| ttx | Poppy is definitely compatible with OpenStack and part of the OpenStack "ecosystem". It's even developed in the OpenStack Way. | 20:32 |
| ttx | It also makes sense as part of a public cloud offering, to channel partner services that you don't provide yourself. But... | 20:32 |
| ttx | OpenStack is precisely about open source infrastructure building blocks you can use to provide services yourself. | 20:32 |
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| mordred | the alternative is for each cloud ot hav etheir own non-openstack api that a user has to use to use CDN | 20:32 |
| dhellmann | it also helps support hybrid and federated cloud solutions, because of the API abstraction | 20:32 |
| ttx | Not so much about working around missing components by brokering to non-OpenStack commercial services. | 20:32 |
| mordred | which has specifically been a problem for Infra in the past as a consumer of OpenStack clouds | 20:32 |
| ttx | So I'm leaning towards a NO here. It's totally fine as an OpenStack-compatible project... It's just not what OpenStack is. | 20:32 |
| ttx | mordred: so CDN is special ? | 20:33 |
| lifeless | I don't understand the contention here TBH | 20:33 |
| mordred | yes, I think so | 20:33 |
| annegentle_ | I'm leaning towards a YES here, it abstracts out vendors and offers a standard REST API. This could be super useful in say, swift, or other APIs | 20:33 |
| mordred | ttx: I think given the nature of what CDNs are - I would rather have an OpenStack integrated way to integrate my openstack content with them | 20:33 |
| sdague | mordred: so you would also argue this is defcore? | 20:33 |
| ttx | mordred: as I posted on the review... if another project was proposed that only proxied requests to cloud services implemented at Amazon, Azure and GCE, we would certainly not consider that helping with our mission. CDN should not be judged differently ? | 20:34 |
| jeblair | mordred: why is it the cloud's responsibility to provide cdn? | 20:34 |
| sdague | because if it's not defcore, it doesn't solve your problem | 20:34 |
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| mordred | ttx: we are directly provising competitive software that builds a thing like amazon, gce or azure | 20:34 |
| lifeless | ttx: but you're setting up a strawman in your post | 20:34 |
| mordred | ttx: so I think it would be specifically weird in that specific case | 20:34 |
| mordred | ttx: but in this specific case | 20:34 |
| dhellmann | ttx: those are all things that compete with openstack. CDNs don't do that. | 20:34 |
| lifeless | ttx: the fact that there is no open backend *yet* is not the same as saying it will only accept proprietary backends | 20:35 |
| annegentle_ | I also think that people never thought that Certs would be "free" but now we have Let's Encrypt. It's super useful for devs. | 20:35 |
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| annegentle_ | So I think that CDN provides something end users will want. | 20:35 |
| jeblair | a cdn can be effective without being provided by your cloud vendor -- if one wanted to use a cdn, one could just use it. | 20:35 |
| mordred | I think that having a CDN interface is somethign that pretty much everyone who is deploying swift at public cloud scale has | 20:35 |
| mestery | jeblair: Well said, ++ | 20:35 |
| annegentle_ | mordred: agree, and standards make our offering seem more holistic and user-centered | 20:35 |
| thingee | annegentle_, lifeless since you are for this, how do you see the project being tested without a commercial entity? | 20:36 |
| thingee | mordred: ^ | 20:36 |
| mordred | it is my understanding that the project has functional tests already | 20:36 |
| thingee | opencdn is an idea at this point | 20:36 |
| dhellmann | we have lots of examples of third-party CI already, too | 20:36 |
| thingee | it's not a ref implementation | 20:36 |
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| thingee | dhellmann: there's nothing wrong with third party cis. that's not the concern I have | 20:36 |
| sdague | annegentle_: I think the cert thing is a bad example, certs were always free, and skilled people always ran their own CAs | 20:36 |
| annegentle_ | thingee: I'd like to encourage the team to think about an open implementation next, but not block | 20:36 |
| thingee | the fact that all you have is third party cis is the concern | 20:37 |
| annegentle_ | sdague: so skilled people won't run their own CDNs? | 20:37 |
| lifeless | thingee: I'd want to see an open backend for testing; e.g. global swift cluster | 20:37 |
| mordred | I guess to me this is not open core becuase a CDN is not a thing that someone installs locally | 20:37 |
| sdague | annegentle_: they won't with poppy, because it doesn't allow that | 20:37 |
| ttx | mordred, lifeless: if there was an OpenStack project you could deploy to build a CDN using OpenStack clouds at multiple points of presence... would you still consider Poppy desirable ? | 20:37 |
| thingee | annegentle_: I'd argue being accepted in is a good motivator to make sure that happens | 20:37 |
| sdague | because it only does commercial ones | 20:37 |
| annegentle_ | yeah thingee | 20:37 |
| thingee | there's no rush to get this in | 20:37 |
| lifeless | ttx: yes, I would | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | ttx: yes, I would want it to have a backend to talk to that hypothetical service | 20:37 |
| annegentle_ | sdague: we can reject until they have an open one, or accept with a trust level that "they are OpenStack" | 20:38 |
| mordred | a CDN is necessarily by definition a service someone consumes from someone - usually someone with a bunch of datacenters spread across the globe | 20:38 |
| annegentle_ | mordred: where do you lean? | 20:38 |
| anteaya | I don't think that allowing them to continue development but not be mentioned in governance is blocking them | 20:38 |
| lifeless | ttx: because - workload portability, consider swift in-house and rackspace's CDN externally. | 20:38 |
| jeblair | mordred: where you install it isn't the issue -- whether you can install it is | 20:38 |
| mordred | I have absolutely no problem with this joining the big tent | 20:38 |
| mordred | and I do not believe this is open core | 20:38 |
| mordred | I respect that other people disagree with me | 20:38 |
| annegentle_ | I don't see this as open core either | 20:38 |
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| ttx | lifeless: I hear you | 20:38 |
| annegentle_ | and also am fine with disagreement :) | 20:38 |
| flaper87 | mordred: I don't, tbh! | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | open core would be if you had to get the drivers separately from the service providers, but that's not the case here | 20:39 |
| mordred | I believe that I can install poppy and I do not have to also install proprietary software to make it work | 20:39 |
| flaper87 | mordred: I mean, I don't disagree :P | 20:39 |
| lifeless | ttx: not all openstack public clouds run swift; ceph is a thing | 20:39 |
| thingee | mordred: we have so many openstack projects today that have poor testing. This can't be tested continuously without the issues I raised dthat infra would have to depend on. Why are we adding to that? | 20:39 |
| dhellmann | thingee : then we'll highlight that in some way so potential users understand it | 20:39 |
| mordred | thingee: becuase I think that not having cdn integration available is worse | 20:39 |
| ttx | mordred: I agree that CDNs have certain properties that make them difficult to replicate, and that Poppy is certainly useful for our end users | 20:39 |
| lifeless | thingee: turn it around; what do we need the project to do to not be a testing burden. | 20:39 |
| lifeless | thingee: thats actionable advice we can give | 20:40 |
| mordred | I believe that as an end user I have been excluded from using services in the clouds I consume because there was no openstack cdn gateway that those vendors had the choice of using, thus there was no openstack api I could talk to | 20:40 |
| flaper87 | I feel like the conversation is leading towards forcing the project to have a way to run local tests even though those tests won't even be sufficient/good | 20:40 |
| ttx | mordred: I'm trying to reconcile this with a rule we can apply, and with our recent discussions on what "no Open core" means today | 20:40 |
| annegentle_ | thingee: why because of timing does one team get penalized? We're the ones that opened up the big tent. | 20:40 |
| jeblair | mordred: i guess whether this is open-core depends on some pretty precise semantics -- but regardless, this is an open source project that is simply a proxy to a proprietary service -- it doesn't feel very open source to me. | 20:40 |
| flaper87 | I understand the concern of testing and I think it's important | 20:40 |
| sdague | mordred / lifeless - I think what you are both saying though is not only is poppy openstack, but it's also got to immediately move to defcore, as that is required to give people guaruntees | 20:40 |
| annegentle_ | We also need to be good stewards of the end users who need better services. | 20:40 |
| sdague | jeblair: agreed | 20:40 |
| thingee | annegentle_: because, we've evolved and matured. | 20:41 |
| mordred | ttx: I believe that we have rules to guide us - and that we have human judgement we can apply when the rules themselves are insufficent | 20:41 |
| flaper87 | but I don't believe the answer is: "come back with an open source backend to run your tests on" | 20:41 |
| thingee | we expect quality | 20:41 |
| lifeless | sdague: uhm, I wasn't saying that. Let me thing. | 20:41 |
| lifeless | think | 20:41 |
| annegentle_ | sdague: not the point | 20:41 |
| anteaya | I disagree that continuing development and not being mentioned in governance equates to penalty | 20:41 |
| jeblair | mordred: you may have had an experience in infra that i did not have | 20:41 |
| mordred | jeblair: one of the reasons we could not use hpcloud's swift was that the only way to make a container public in hp was to use the hpcloud specific cdn service | 20:41 |
| dtroyer | mordred: that is a deployment choice, not a limitation of OpenStack itself | 20:42 |
| fungi | i believe the bad experience around this is that a particular openstack provider makes their swift implementation unusable without also using their non-openstack cdn | 20:42 |
| mordred | jeblair: the hp cloud team did, in fact, open source that code, but as it was not openstack there wasn't really a push for any of the other clouds to collaborate or adopt it | 20:42 |
| thingee | lifeless: not sure how anyone missed my repeating of an actionable item of a good reference implementation | 20:42 |
| sdague | mordred: because swift can not be exposed without a CDN? | 20:42 |
| lifeless | sdague: is trove defcore? | 20:42 |
| annegentle_ | anteaya: one Q on third-party testing, is it possible for poppy to be in governance but only have third-party ci for a time? | 20:42 |
| clarkb | mordred: that was rax, I think hpcloud did mostly work via public urls | 20:42 |
| clarkb | mordred: but its gone now so doesn't matter | 20:42 |
| mordred | clarkb: k | 20:42 |
| clarkb | sdague: no, it is just how people deploy it | 20:43 |
| mordred | so - honestly - I do not believe we're going ot argue each other into agreeing with each other | 20:43 |
| clarkb | which in itself should maybe be a defcore test | 20:43 |
| jeblair | mordred: sure, but we did not want to use a cdn. and if we did want to use a cdn (as a cdn), we are not limited to the one provided by the cloud | 20:43 |
| ttx | mordred: so you would equate CDNs to electricity or the global DNS system, something that exists beyond openstack and that our end users need access to in order to breathe | 20:43 |
| fungi | i understand swift _can_ be used without a cdn, so perhaps what needs to be defcore (if swift is also defcore) is a way to effectively use swift without also having to use a cdn | 20:43 |
| annegentle_ | right I think that a vote is what works here | 20:43 |
| anteaya | annegentle_: that is up to the tc, but if the only testing they have is third party I would wonder why they are in governance | 20:43 |
| annegentle_ | ok | 20:43 |
| mordred | it's ajudgement call as to whether or not an open source project that proxies to non-locally-installable local services is open core or not | 20:43 |
| clarkb | fungi: +1 | 20:43 |
| mordred | I break one way | 20:43 |
| jeblair | mordred: i feel like the swift example is flawed, because that's an implementation detail that should not have leaked into the public api | 20:43 |
| mordred | other break the other way | 20:43 |
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| lifeless | sdague: so, trove is not in defcore AFAICT, but people find it useful and valuable, or so I'm told | 20:44 |
| jeblair | mordred: (if cloud-provider wants a cdn in front of swift, just put one there and don't tell the customer) | 20:44 |
| mordred | jeblair: sure | 20:44 |
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| lifeless | sdague: I don't see why suggesting that this can have the same properties implies it must be in defcore | 20:44 |
| notmyname | for the record, the rax cloud is the exception, not the common case. they're the only swift deployer I know of who disables direct access to publicly readable data. | 20:44 |
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| mordred | ttx: yes | 20:44 |
| ttx | OK, I'd like to talk about the Cassandra dependency quickly, and the fact that it kind of depends on the Oracle JDK | 20:44 |
| mordred | ttx: what you said is more how I look at this | 20:44 |
| ttx | is that an issue or not ? | 20:45 |
| sdague | notmyname: ok, which means they are the only ones that need poppy, because of other decisions they made? | 20:45 |
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| annegentle_ | the Cassandra dependency appears to be for local dev testing | 20:45 |
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| amitgandhinz | fwiw, poppy plans to add the ability to pass authorization headers to allow for non public readable containers | 20:45 |
| dhellmann | ttx: can you elaborate? I think I missed the stuff about cassandra | 20:45 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: the only supported backend is Cassandra, AFAIU | 20:45 |
| lifeless | https://github.com/openstack/poppy/blob/master/setup.py makes me sad | 20:46 |
| lifeless | very very sad | 20:46 |
| annegentle_ | but I could be wrong, https://github.com/openstack/poppy#getting-started was what I was looking at | 20:46 |
| dhellmann | flaper87 : cassandra isn't a cdn? I don't understand. | 20:46 |
| amitgandhinz | we currently have the cassandra driver which is production ready. we can build another db driver if necessary since that is pluggable | 20:46 |
| ttx | dhellmann: Poppy has a dependency on Cassandra. Cassandra's authors ask you to install Oracle JDK and don't support OpenJDK | 20:46 |
| fungi | that makes it effectively non-free | 20:46 |
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| mordred | cassandra seems excessively heavy for local testing | 20:46 |
| ttx | fungi: right | 20:46 |
| amitgandhinz | the cassandra driver is just to store the cdn settings, so that they can then be provisioned to any other cdn provider with the master copy held in poppy | 20:46 |
| dhellmann | yeah, that's more of a concern than the open core aspect | 20:46 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: sorry, database backend to store metadata or whatever they save there | 20:46 |
| amitgandhinz | flaper87: +1 | 20:46 |
| flaper87 | and I believe that's more a concern than the previous topic | 20:46 |
| dhellmann | amitgandhinz : why aren't you using mysql? | 20:46 |
| lifeless | there are two drivers; mockdb and cassandra | 20:46 |
| lifeless | it doesn't look like cassandra is for local testing at all... | 20:47 |
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| fungi | and i'm guessing mockdb is only for testing, given its name | 20:47 |
| ttx | dhellmann: you mean "why aren't you using oslo.db" | 20:47 |
| flaper87 | amitgandhinz: ^ | 20:47 |
| dhellmann | ttx: yes, well | 20:47 |
| amitgandhinz | dhellmann: it was mostly for the distributed usecase we were going for which cassandra helped us meet | 20:47 |
| mordred | awesome. so - for that, I think we have two things where this does not behave much like an openstack project- the cassandra driver, and the very strange setup.py | 20:47 |
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| flaper87 | mordred: the setup.py is easy (TM) to refactor, I think | 20:47 |
| annegentle_ | flaper87: easy button (tm) :) | 20:48 |
| flaper87 | the casandra driver might require more work | 20:48 |
| mordred | flaper87: I do not htink it's easy to refactor | 20:48 |
| lifeless | The (tm) will certainly apply there | 20:48 |
| ttx | I for one would prefer if there were options beyond cassandra | 20:48 |
| lifeless | mordred: it is, its just cat $(find requirements) | grep -v -- - > requirements.txt | 20:48 |
| fungi | it is interesting that poppy has extended pbr to support requirements directories, without workign with pbr upstream to actually implement that | 20:48 |
| flaper87 | mordred: Did I mention I had no idea what I was talking about? | 20:48 |
| ttx | but I don't really want to ask them to work on that if we plan to reject them on the "no open source backend" reason | 20:49 |
| flaper87 | mordred: jokes apart, what I menat is that it might require less time than adding a new driver | 20:49 |
| dhellmann | fungi : at one point pbr did support multiple requirements files, didn't it? or did we just talk about that? | 20:49 |
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| mordred | it's more the thing fungi mentions | 20:49 |
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| mordred | this is a divergent view on pbr things - and the database backend is strange - especially for something the purpose of which is "store configuration settings" - neither of those 'feel' openstack-like to me | 20:49 |
| lifeless | fungi: dhellmann: it was proposed, and rejected | 20:50 |
| fungi | dhellmann: it supports/supported interpreter-specific requirements sets, but i don't recall a general requirements file aggregation feature | 20:50 |
| dhellmann | lifeless : ah | 20:50 |
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| dhellmann | yeah, so without getting into the specifics (use "extras"), the setup thing can be changed relatively easily but the db driver will take more work | 20:50 |
| annegentle_ | I think we can summarize for amitgandhinz | 20:50 |
| dhellmann | amitgandhinz: do you have plans for other db drivers? | 20:50 |
| ttx | mordred: I'm fine delaying them to get better alignment, but I would rather settle the "open core or not" question first | 20:50 |
| lifeless | we're converging on upstream's practices, and the use of directories was pretty much opposite - not to mention that the interactions between the existing, broken, -pyN stuff and directories would have been very hard to track | 20:51 |
| ttx | mordred: otherwise we ask them to change things only to reject them in the end | 20:51 |
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| mordred | ttx: I agree | 20:51 |
| flaper87 | ttx: how can we settle on the open core question and stil ldelay them? IRC vote ? | 20:51 |
| flaper87 | ttx: that said, I agree | 20:51 |
| lifeless | ttx: so you're saying this is open core because there is no openstack CDN implementation ? | 20:51 |
| amitgandhinz | dhellmann: we have it on the roadmap to do a mysql driver, but no one has asked for it yet so hasnt been a big priority | 20:51 |
| ttx | flaper87: yeah, something like that. There is clearly no consensus on that issue | 20:51 |
| fungi | or simply no viable and supported free/libre cdn software | 20:52 |
| dhellmann | amitgandhinz : think you're going to be told that will be a requirement, any minute now | 20:52 |
| lifeless | fungi: other than swift ;) | 20:52 |
| amitgandhinz | lol | 20:52 |
| fungi | wouldn't have to be "openstack" cdn software | 20:52 |
| flaper87 | ttx: I'd prefer delaying the vote until next week and give people more time to go through their ideas and what was discussed here. | 20:52 |
| ttx | lifeless: I'm not saying anything. I'm torn on this one | 20:52 |
| flaper87 | That said, I think IRC vote is fine for the open core question | 20:52 |
| lifeless | TBH the cassandra thing doesn't bother me. I know it bothers other folk :) | 20:52 |
| amitgandhinz | so im okay being given a list of action items, but want to make sure there is a well defined list and we settle the open core issue | 20:52 |
| fungi | lifeless: swift as a cdn? i'd be interested to see that model | 20:52 |
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| amitgandhinz | the rest is just code that the team can handle ;-) | 20:53 |
| lifeless | fungi: global swift clusters have been a thing for a couple years now | 20:53 |
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| ttx | amitgandhinz: yes, we need to come to a decision on the larger issue first | 20:53 |
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| mordred | lifeless: that's an excellent point | 20:53 |
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| lifeless | fungi: obviously notmyname can say much more than I | 20:53 |
| fungi | i suppose cdn doesn't have to mean "caching web proxy" | 20:54 |
| fungi | so point taken | 20:54 |
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| ttx | Maybe Poppy could interface with a set of Swift things | 20:54 |
| notmyname | lifeless: you speak truth (but IMO global swift != CDN) | 20:54 |
| lifeless | fungi: generally cdn's don't mean that anymore TBH - pre-loading of content is very common, as is edge processing | 20:54 |
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| lifeless | notmyname: ok, would like to deep dive another time | 20:54 |
| jeblair | notmyname: aren't folks doing processing in swift now? | 20:55 |
| flaper87 | so, what's the plan? Vote now or next week? The meeting is about to end and there still seem to be some points being made | 20:55 |
| flaper87 | I'd rather defer to next week and do a "vote only" topic | 20:55 |
| ttx | OK, I propose we continue that discussion and vote at the next meeting. | 20:55 |
| mordred | flaper87: it seems a week of flames I mean messages to a mailing list would be useful for folks | 20:55 |
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| flaper87 | mordred: wasn't that last week ? | 20:55 |
| * flaper87 stfu | 20:56 | |
| mordred | flaper87: isn't that every week? | 20:56 |
| ttx | #info we need to settle the open core issue first, and then come up with a list of things to change before acceptance | 20:56 |
| flaper87 | mordred: touche | 20:56 |
| ttx | which brings us to next topic | 20:56 |
| amitgandhinz | fwiw i appreciate the positive useful conversations that have happened on this topic (without it becoming too much of a flame war) ;-) | 20:56 |
| notmyname | jeblair: yes, with ecosystem integration things plugged into swift | 20:56 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:56 | |
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| annegentle_ | amitgandhinz: good, yes. | 20:56 |
| ttx | I'll be away snowboarding next week, so I won't be around to chair the meeting if we are holding it | 20:56 |
| ttx | There is the Ops midcycle in Europe too, which is likely to draw some attention away | 20:56 |
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| ttx | We can skip, or else I'll need a volunteer for chairing | 20:56 |
| * mordred will be at ops midcycle | 20:56 | |
| anteaya | ttx: happy snowboarding | 20:57 |
| flaper87 | I will be traveling next Tuesday (SURPRISE) | 20:57 |
| flaper87 | so, perhaps we skip? | 20:57 |
| ttx | Feels like the IRC vote next meeting will need most people to be around | 20:57 |
| mordred | actually, /me will be on train travelling away from ops midcycle | 20:57 |
| mordred | yah - this is an important vote I think | 20:57 |
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| lifeless | +1 on skippiung next week | 20:57 |
| jeblair | perhaps we should do the vote in gerrit? :) | 20:57 |
| rockyg | ++ | 20:57 |
| annegentle_ | yeah skip I guess. I can run it if needed though. | 20:57 |
| * russellb will be around | 20:57 | |
| * dhellmann expects to be around | 20:58 | |
| * edleafe will be around, not that that matters much :) | 20:58 | |
| ttx | jeblair: yeah, we just need some way to formulate it | 20:58 |
| anteaya | edleafe: it matters to me | 20:58 |
| mestery | I'll be here to FWIW | 20:58 |
| edleafe | anteaya: awwwwww | 20:58 |
| anteaya | :) | 20:58 |
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| flaper87 | jeblair: ttx if we can do it on gerrit in some way, then I'd me more than happy to use gerrit | 20:58 |
| markmcclain | I'll be around too | 20:58 |
| ttx | ok, I propose we skip next week, and find a way to vote in Gerrit (resolution or wat) | 20:59 |
| jaypipes | ++ | 20:59 |
| ttx | that way we don't stall the discussion for two weeks | 20:59 |
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| flaper87 | If someone can chair next week and there's quorum, we shouldn't skip it (just like the one I chaired). But the vote should happen in gerrit, though | 20:59 |
| annegentle_ | I always learn at these meetings, hence witholding my vote | 20:59 |
| ttx | I'll find a way to formulate that. Maybe a comment in the yaml file | 21:00 |
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| flaper87 | A place holder in the project's file? | 21:00 |
| ttx | #action ttx to propose some vote on the Poppy / opencore or not issue in Gerrit, separate from formal project team addition | 21:00 |
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| flaper87 | like: "They will come, sit and wait" | 21:00 |
| flaper87 | not sure if I'm making any sense | 21:00 |
| ttx | flaper87: yeah, something like that | 21:00 |
| jeblair | wfm | 21:00 |
| ttx | ok, time is up | 21:00 |
| thingee | fungi: I know, no break! | 21:01 |
| thingee | whoops | 21:01 |
| ttx | Sorry it takes time to process those applications, because those are edge cases and we need to think more about them | 21:01 |
| fungi | heh | 21:01 |
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| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:01 | |
| ttx | Thanks everyone | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 9 21:01:41 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-02-09-20.01.html | 21:01 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-02-09-20.01.txt | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-02-09-20.01.log.html | 21:01 |
| thingee | ping Qiming TravT gordc dirk mriedem daemontool | 21:01 |
| thingee | ping boris-42 flaper87 rhochmuth dims vipul rakhmerov | 21:01 |
| thingee | ping mtreinish adrian_otto zigo Piet sdake thinrichs | 21:01 |
| thingee | ping loquacities smelikyan Daisy skraynev catherineD dprince | 21:02 |
| thingee | ping hyakuhei devkulkarni cp16net claudiub armax dtroyer ayoung | 21:02 |
| thingee | Pinging here as a reminder to join us in the #openstack-meeting-cp channel | 21:02 |
| ttx | heh | 21:02 |
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| mtreinish | oh, there's another meeting channel, I guess I should pay more attention | 21:02 |
| mtreinish | I was wondering why I was getting pinged and there was no meeting :) | 21:02 |
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| loquacities | o/ | 21:03 |
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| bogdando_ | hi | 21:04 |
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