Wednesday, 2016-02-10

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loquacitieshi everyone!00:38
loquacitiesAPAC docs meeting here in a couple of mins :)00:38
loquacities#startmeeting docteam00:40
openstackMeeting started Wed Feb 10 00:40:24 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is loquacities. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.00:40
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: docteam)"00:40
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'docteam'00:40
loquacitiessorry for the late start everyone00:40
elmikono worries00:40
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loquacitiesthanks for reminding me Sam-I-Am :)00:41
Sam-I-Amnow i'm here00:41
loquacitiesi'd dug down to insane depths on my email ;)00:41
loquacitiesok, let's go straight to specs00:41
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loquacities#topic Specs in review00:41
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs in review (Meeting topic: docteam)"00:41
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loquacitiesInstallation guide changes for Mitaka00:42
loquacitiesi think i'm a little behind on this one00:42
loquacitiesi was hoping to chat more about removing the debian guide before we got too far on this00:43
Sam-I-Ami'm installing pre-mitaka now :)00:43
loquacitiesfor debian?00:43
Sam-I-Amno... this is rdo (because i could find packages)00:43
loquacitiesi was thinking it's probably about that time that i should be contacting release-type people for the distros, too00:43
Sam-I-Amdebian is a lost cause at this point00:43
loquacitieswell, at least we have RDO packages!00:43
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Sam-I-Amyeah, they built from trunk now which is good and bad00:44
Sam-I-Amubuntu is still milestone 1, so eeoooo00:44
Sam-I-Amthese are m300:44
Sam-I-Amso.. close.00:44
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Sam-I-Amenough for me to start figuring out what all changes00:44
loquacitiesalso: we have a red hat writer on board, too00:44
Sam-I-Amand there's quite a few changes00:44
loquacitieshis name is petr kovar, and he's based in the czech republic00:44
Sam-I-Amso far the rdo packages are less broken than usual, so thats a plus00:44
loquacitiesok, that's on my list of things to email people about then00:45
Sam-I-Amthe changes for rdo will likely impact ubuntu and suse too00:45
loquacitieswhen's the next install guide meeting in APAC?00:45
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Sam-I-Amchristian sort of bailed out of heading up the project00:45
Sam-I-Amdunno... the US one was today, and i chaired it again00:46
Sam-I-Amactually i've always chaired it00:46
loquacitiesah, next week ok00:46
loquacitiesyeah, i noticed christian hasn't been around much00:46
Sam-I-Amhe commented on the mitaka spec00:46
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Sam-I-Amsays hes working on some project00:46
loquacitieswe might need to call for volunteers to look after that team again in austin00:46
Sam-I-Amthe install guide meeting only had 1 other attendee today00:46
Sam-I-Amwell, regardless of who volunteers, i usually wind up doing it, so i might as well throw my name into that hat00:47
loquacitieshrm, ok00:47
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Sam-I-Amshould not happen at a summit imo. more e-maily-listy thing.00:47
loquacitieslet's see if we can't rustle up some install guide enthusiasm over the next few weeks, anyway00:47
loquacitiesyeah, we can do that too00:47
loquacitiesanyway, let's move on00:47
Sam-I-Amthe debian bits :)00:47
loquacitiesConvert warnings to errors for local builds00:48
loquacitiesdo we need to discuss that at all at this stage?00:48
Sam-I-Amits not actually a spec00:49
Sam-I-Amits fixing the specs repo00:49
loquacitiesyeah, i was just looking at that00:49
loquacitieslooks like it just needs a workflow00:49
Sam-I-Amsome bad rst got into our repos00:49
Sam-I-Amso i tracked it down00:49
loquacitiesright, got it00:50
loquacitiesManila Installation guide for Mitaka00:50
loquacitiesi thought i told manila ages ago they weren't going in the install guide?00:50
Sam-I-Amthey seem to have gotten their stuff together00:51
loquacitiesthey've been on my case for about six months00:51
Sam-I-Amthere's a patch waiting that almost meets all of the requirements00:51
Sam-I-Amso... if it works... it goes in00:51
loquacitiesis it going to screw things up?00:51
loquacitieshrm, ok00:51
Sam-I-Amso far looks and smells like cinder00:51
loquacitiesi'll trust your judgement on that00:51
Sam-I-Amso it can reuse our arch for cinder00:51
Sam-I-Amwhat i didnt want was having to re-arch things00:51
loquacitiesit does kind of undermine the 'defcore only' statement, though00:51
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loquacitiesi'm worried it'll open some kind of floodgate00:52
Sam-I-Amif all the distros are pushing packages for it, and they work... its good enough.00:52
loquacitiesyeah, that's a fair point00:52
Sam-I-Amdefcore kind of got murky with the big tent00:52
JRobinson__Manila must be closer to reaching maturity levels too.00:52
loquacitiesthat's been their main argument all along00:52
elmikoyea, pretty sure manila must be close00:52
loquacitiesthey wanted to be in the install guide to increase their official maturity00:53
elmikowe've integrated it with sahara and i know it's coming in future RDO releases00:53
Sam-I-Amso the requirements are a) do packages exist for all distros b) do they work c) can someone else contribute and maintain the content00:53
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Sam-I-Amits better when services are 'optional'00:53
loquacitiesok, so here's a q: is a manila person showing up at install guide meetings?00:53
Sam-I-Amthere was one today00:53
Sam-I-Amthe ptl, actually00:53
JRobinson__^good question00:53
Sam-I-Amwe had a nice long chat00:53
loquacitiesok, let's move on to speciality teams then00:54
loquacities#topic Speciality teams00:54
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loquacitiesso i've been collected the speciality team reports on this etherpad since the beginning of the year00:54
loquacitiesit's working better than the individual emails i was doing before00:55
JRobinson__loquacities, sorry for the delay last week.00:55
loquacitiesand it also gives us a better place to link to for this info00:55
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loquacitiesJRobinson__: no trouble, i know you were busy00:55
JRobinson__The non email overhead has been greatly appreciated though.00:55
loquacitiesyeah, it seems to be better00:55
loquacitiesso generally i ask for updates on my wednesday, to be completed by around noon on my friday00:55
elmikoi think the sec-guide has found someone to work on the neutron chapter00:56
loquacitiesthat way, i can get the newsletter out late on a friday afternoon00:56
loquacitieselmiko: oh, that's good!00:56
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JRobinson__#info Specialty Team Updates are due Friday. look out for a Wednesday reminder.00:56
elmikobut, afaik, we are still working on getting the pdf formatting together00:56
loquacitiesJRobinson__: thanks!00:56
loquacitieselmiko: yeah, i was wondering how that was going00:57
loquacitiesis there an update on that?00:57
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elmikoi know sicarie is investigating it, but he has been pretty loaded up recently00:58
loquacitiesright, ok00:59
loquacitiesi haven't heard anything about it recently00:59
elmikohe is getting back to it though00:59
loquacitiesany other comments on speciality teams?00:59
elmikoyea, the whole rst->pdf is proving troublesome00:59
Sam-I-Amwe more or less covered the install guide00:59
loquacitieselmiko: i'm not terribly surprised, honestly00:59
Sam-I-Amnetworking guide is moving along slowly as usual00:59
loquacitiesSam-I-Am: yep, install guide is in my sights this week00:59
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loquacitiesslowly but surely? ;)01:00
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elmikoloquacities: par for the course, i suppose ;)01:00
Sam-I-Amso much to do, so little time... and people.01:00
loquacitieselmiko: lol, yep01:00
Sam-I-Amplus i've been sucked into networking-ovn01:00
Sam-I-Amso thats getting some attention01:00
JRobinson__User Guide meeting is still set for tomorrow.01:00
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loquacitieslucky you :P01:00
loquacitiesJRobinson__: thanks01:00
JRobinson__No other updates other than that01:00
Sam-I-Amalso trying to fix neutron's mtu problems01:00
loquacities#topic Countdown to release01:00
*** openstack changes topic to "Countdown to release (Meeting topic: docteam)"01:00
Sam-I-Amthats been a fun one01:00
loquacities#info 56 days01:01
JRobinson__So about 9 weeks til N release.01:01
loquacities#info DocImpact merged; however01:01
Sam-I-Am60 days is usually my trigger for the install guide01:01
loquacitiesheh, bad paste01:01
loquacitiesSam-I-Am: yeah, i was working on about the same timeframe01:01
Sam-I-Amso i was glad a bunch of other stuff broke today and i could spend some time on it01:01
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loquacitiesso, docimpact is now merged, and *all* projects are opening docimpact bugs in their own queues01:02
loquacitiesso far, no one has yelled at me over that01:02
loquacitieswhich is a nice change01:02
Sam-I-Amthe neutron folks just find me01:02
loquacitiesthey're not stupid ;)01:02
loquacities#action loquacities will start contacting release/packaging people for Install Guide01:03
loquacitiesSam-I-Am: when do you want to start testing, officially?01:03
Sam-I-Amright now is the changes/updates period01:04
Sam-I-Amlike... what breaks in mitaka01:04
Sam-I-Ami took a crash course in fernet tokens earlier, for example01:04
loquacitiesyep, so now is the time to work on packages01:04
Sam-I-Amthats where the work is going01:04
loquacitiesdo you think we can start testing 30 days out?01:04
Sam-I-Ammore or less 'findings' and changes from them01:05
loquacitiesthanks for that01:05
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Sam-I-Amyeah in 30 days we should have packages for all distros and be able to test the draft guide, making corrections as necessary01:05
loquacitiesok, let's roll with that as a plan, then01:05
loquacities#info Plan to have testing on Install Guide begin at M-30 days01:05
loquacitiesok, i think that's all i have on release matters01:06
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loquacities#Open discussion01:07
loquacities#topic Open discussion01:07
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loquacitiesanything else to discuss?01:08
Sam-I-Amnothing here01:08
elmikonothing from me01:08
loquacitiesthanks everyone :)01:08
JRobinson__nothing major to go over.01:08
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"01:09
openstackMeeting ended Wed Feb 10 01:09:01 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)01:09
openstackMinutes (text):
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elmikothanks loquacities01:11
loquacitiesthanks elmiko :)01:11
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rolandchanHi All, I'm about to start the User Committee meeting. Is anyone here for that?03:00
jproulx1I'm here but at the end of a very long day...03:00
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rolandchanAnyone else?03:01
rolandchanPerhaps not. I'm going to wait for a couple of minutes. I don't think a 2 person meeting is a really viable.03:02
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jproulx1Hmmm, perhaps not enough APAC interest to support this slot, but yeah let's give it 5 or 10min and see if we pick up any more.03:03
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rolandchanNot looking positive. I did expect low conversion rate from the doodle to reality.03:06
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jproulx1Well it was worth a shot but I think it's about time to call it a loss03:10
rolandchanHmm OK. I'm going to call time on this meeting. It's a non-starter03:10
rolandchanthanks jproulx1, hopefully the rest of your night is relaxing.03:10
jproulx1agrees oh well, have a good day & thanks.03:10
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SotKanyone here for the storyboard meeting?15:00
ZaraI AM15:00
Zarait's the most exciting event in my calendar15:00
SotK#startmeeting storyboard15:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Feb 10 15:00:47 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is SotK. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storyboard)"15:00
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'storyboard'15:00
SotK#link Agenda15:00
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* SotK wonders if we announced tags search last week?15:01
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ZaraI don't think so; I think it was merged on Thurs?15:01
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SotKwe didn't!15:01
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SotK#topic Announcements15:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: storyboard)"15:02
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SotK#info The stories list can now be filtered by tags!15:02
SotKthanks for that work Zara :)15:02
Zaranp, it was pretty straightforward once I understood what was going on...15:02
Zarait's long-overdue, but it's up on, so enjoy it at last! :)15:03
SotKAre there any urgent items you know of?15:04
Zaranothing specific, I have a fair amount of stuff in review, including the fix for timeline events15:04
* SotK will try to get to reviewing things soon15:04
Zarahi betherly! :)15:04
SotKhi betherly15:05
betherlyhi! :)15:05
SotK#topic Urgent Items15:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Urgent Items (Meeting topic: storyboard)"15:05
SotK#info The review backlog is getting big again, reviews are very welcome15:05
SotK#topic In Progress Work15:06
*** openstack changes topic to "In Progress Work (Meeting topic: storyboard)"15:06
SotK#info SotK is still looking at due dates for cards in worklists and boards15:06
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SotKI've made decent progress on this, hopefully should be sending some patches to add groundwork for it soon15:07
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Zarathen what will I do in my free time?15:07
Zaraoh wait, I know, I'll be reviewing a million patches15:07
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SotKthere won't be that many yet :)15:08
Zaraphew! :)15:08
Zarabut seriously, yay!15:08
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Zarafor progress, glad it's going okay, any blockers?15:08
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SotKidk when patches for actually using them properly will be ready, I was hoping for Friday but that is looking less likely now15:09
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SotKI can't think of anything blocking me at the moment, its all going fairly well (albeit a bit slow after I got caught up making a calendar thing)15:09
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Zaradoes next Friday sound likely?15:10
Zaraor are there too many unknowns?15:10
SotKit certainly sounds more likely than this Friday15:10
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Zaraokay, keep us posted!15:13
SotKI will do :)15:13
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* SotK wonders what else is ongoing (or stuck waiting for me to review)15:13
Zaraokay, we already announced that tags as filters has been completed!15:13
ZaraI tagged the infra-cloud story since anteaya asked specifically about that one a while ago15:14
Zaraso that should be a bit easier to find now.15:14
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anteayathank you15:14
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Zarayw! :) you should see a little 'tag' icon if you type things into the main search (or stories search). it doesn't work in the header search (I've been overruled on that... FOR NOW)15:15
Zaraer, where main search = search button on the sidebar.15:15
Zaraother things...15:16
Zara#info patches for timeline events in review15:16
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Zarawell, patch15:16
Zaraso timeline events have been a bit broken since last March15:16
Zarajust saying 'x updated y' rather than 'x updated y from foo to bar'15:16
SotK#link timeline events fix15:17
Zarathat patch makes things work again! so storyboard history is more useful.15:17
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ZaraI'm hoping it also means we can neaten the email notification templates for tasks15:17
Zarabut I haven't looked at that yet.15:17
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SotKI'll try to get to reviewing it soon-ish15:18
ZaraI understand, you have a lot to do atm.15:18
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Zarait should be pretty quick to test that one, though there are other things waiting which need more thorough review...15:19
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Zara#info patches for task links to resources in review15:19
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* SotK will try his best to look at them soon too15:20
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Zarayeah, I'm not particularly experienced with python or databases, so would appreciate someone looking through those more closely for something dodgy15:20
Zaraso I'm okay with it taking longer if that's what's required for a thorough review15:20
Zarathose will let people link to resources next to a task in a story15:21
Zarainstead of having to put links in the story description or comments15:21
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Zarawhich is the way people are working around it atm15:21
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ZaraI'm excited about them because this really annoys me when gardening storyboard.openstack.org15:22
Zarabut a bit wary, so yeah15:22
ZaraI have a bunch of other things in review, but those are less interesting.15:23
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SotKAnything else in progress?15:23
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Zarahm, well, I've finished my immediate todos, so not sure what to prioritize next.15:23
ZaraIt means I have more time for review15:24
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SotKperhaps look back at again?15:24
SotKor try and make the task IDs visible in a nice way? :D15:24
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Zaraheh, sure, I can go back to those. if there's anything more important I'll be free to pick it up, too15:25
Zaraeg: if there's any of the worklists and boards work that can be split, though I understand that's kind of hard.15:25
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Zarawell, maybe the most useful thing I can do is get more feedback15:26
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SotK#topic Open Discussion15:28
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: storyboard)"15:28
SotKdo we have anything to discuss?15:28
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SotKoh, are we doing this meeting next week, given that we are having our mid-cycle meetup?15:31
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Zaragood question15:32
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ZaraI'd be inclined to say no, on the basis that most interested parties will be at our meetup or at clashing meetups (otherwise they'd be at our meetup :P).15:33
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ZaraI suppose it wouldn't be difficult for us to host the meeting anyway just in case.15:34
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SotKI guess we can decide on the day :)15:34
Zarafor me it depends on if people at other meetups are likely to check the storyboard meeting that day.15:34
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SotK"Hi, anyone want to meet?", if silence then don't bother15:34
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betherlysadly the storyboard one clashes with the ux one so i cant make it next week15:35
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Zarayeah, both the UX meetup and the product working group meetup clash (they're also interested in storyboard!). maybe all three should combine. xD15:36
betherlybut Zara and I were discussing potential for me to come up another time and go through things in person15:36
Zarayeah, (for context: part of the reason I kept the date the same as the UX meetup was because I figured we're near each other so it's easier to arrange something else)15:37
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SotKthat would make sense to me15:38
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Zararough dates are sometime in the week of 29th feb or 7th march15:39
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SotKwhat are we planning to do/discuss at the meetup?15:42
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Zaramainly cake.15:43
Zarain seriousness, wiki page here:
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betherlyhahaha ++ cake :'D15:44
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Zaraat the moment, it looks like some bits there will be irrelevant15:44
Zarabut we should be able to get feedback from infra about things that would help with the infra cloud sprint (and things that would be helpful in general)15:44
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Zarawhich will help with my timely questions of 'what do I prioritize at this point?'15:45
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SotKthat will be useful :)15:45
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Zarawe can also explain what's going on with the kanban stuff...15:46
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Zarasince that's been pretty low-key while we've made sure it works.15:48
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Zarano pressure SotK ;)15:49
* SotK will try to make everything wondrous by then then15:49
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Zaradoes anyone have any questions about the meetup? I worry I've kept things too vague.15:51
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Zara(please also feel free to ping me about transport questions or anything like that.)15:52
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Zarait's all been rather adhoc while I've been unsure of numbers etc, but I'd rather not leave anyone wandering around Manchester, lost.15:52
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SotKAnything else to discuss?15:55
Zarakencjohnston: ah, good timing, we were just talking about the storyboard meetup (next Weds); I believe the product working group meetup clashes; I think we should work out if we can do something but we're right at the end of this meeting15:55
Zaraso maybe #storyboard is the best place to continue that line of thought15:55
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* SotK thinks it probably is15:56
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kencjohnstonZara Ha, I actually just signed in to IRC for the day not knowing your meeting was ongoing15:57
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kencjohnstonZara take it off-line?15:57
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Zaraack, out of time, will continue in #storyboard15:59
SotKwe're out of time, so we can continue this in #storyboard :)15:59
SotKheh, snap16:00
betherlygreat ok :)16:00
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"16:00
openstackMeeting ended Wed Feb 10 16:00:09 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)16:00
openstackMinutes (text):
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smcginnis#startmeeting Cinder16:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Feb 10 16:00:18 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is smcginnis. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Cinder)"16:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'cinder'16:00
smcginnisCourtesy pings:16:00
smcginnisdulek duncant eharney geguileo winston-d e0ne jungleboyj jgriffith thingee smcginnis hemna xyang tbarron scottda erlon rhedlind jbernard vincent_hou kmartin patrickeast sheel dongwenjuan JaniceLee cFouts Thelo vivekd adrianofr mtanino yuriy_n1716:00
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sheelhello all16:00
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smcginnisLooks like a big agenda today, so let's get going...16:01
smcginnis#topic Announcements16:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: Cinder)"16:01
smcginnis#info Bug stats: Cinder - 513 open bugs, Python-cinderclient - 38 open bugs, OS-Brick - 14 open bugs16:01
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smcginnis#link Release schedule16:01
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diablo_rojoHello :)16:01
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SwansonEarly today.16:01
smcginnisReminder that we are starting to get to the end of some of the deadlines.16:02
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smcginnisNon-client library freeze coming up quick, so we'll need to cut a final os-brick in about a week16:02
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smcginnisA few things outstanding there that I think we want to get through, so please watch for those reviews.16:02
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jungleboyjsmcginnis: ++16:03
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smcginnisBig one to keep in mind, feature freeze at the end of the month.16:03
smcginnis#topic Transition to LIO16:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Transition to LIO (Meeting topic: Cinder)"16:03
DuncanTWill we consider replication support for drivers a bug?16:03
DuncanTI suspect we'll need to16:04
smcginnisDuncanT: Oh, good point.16:04
smcginnisSome leeway on those.16:04
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smcginnisI don't want anyone cut off due to our change of course if at all possible.16:04
jungleboyjDuncanT: Thanks for bringing that up!  What kind of leeway are we talking?16:04
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smcginnisI will treat those like bugs so they have more time.16:04
DuncanTsmcginnis: ++16:05
smcginnisUntil hard freeze I think.16:05
jungleboyjsmcginnis: Good.16:05
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smcginnisBut for those working on it - please don't wait!!16:05
e0nesmcginnis: we need to anounce it in the ML16:05
vincent_housmcginnis: nice.16:05
jungleboyjI have been opening bugs for the V2 changes that I have seen go in to move them to V2.116:05
jungleboyjCheesecake for all!16:05
smcginnisjungleboyj: Good.16:05
smcginnisI like that.16:05
* anteaya also likes cheesecake16:06
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smcginniseharney: jbernard doesn't seem to be here. Have you been working with him on any of the LIO stuff?16:06
vincent_houWe will get on that way from 2 => 2.1 for rep v2.16:06
smcginnis(getting back on topic)16:06
eharneyi think i can cover the main question here16:06
smcginniseharney: Thanks!16:06
eharneymy understanding is that nobody is against the general idea of moving from scsi-target-utils to LIO as the default for the LVM driver now that's widely supported16:07
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eharneythe primary technical reason we can't flip a switch for this is because there's a problem of changing that default and not breaking existing installs16:07
smcginniseharney: +1 - I think the issue is upgrade handling, right?16:07
mtaninoeharney: +116:07
eharneymy proposal is to do something like we did for nas_secure_file options where they only take effect if you have no volumes (also framed as "new install")16:08
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smcginniseharney: Seems reasonable.16:08
eharneyso unless anyone has any general disagreements with switching over to LIO in general i think we should just head that direction16:08
smcginnisAnyone know of any issues with that?16:08
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eharneythere has been an LIO CI for some time16:08
vincent_houeharney: Is there any special drawback that we use scsi-target? just interested.16:09
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e0neeharney: it that CI stable enough?16:09
eharneyvincent_hou: it's userspace and doesn't perform as well, doesn't support as many features, is not really the future (already dropped from EL7 where we did this migration long ago)16:09
* anteaya offers mriedem some cheesecake16:09
smcginnisanteaya: :)16:10
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eharneye0ne: as far as i know it is...16:10
* jungleboyj hands mriedem a tardy slip16:10
smcginnisYeah, I think from when I've watch LIO CI was pretty stable.16:10
e0neeharney: could you please compare it with tgtd job using
eharneye0ne: should pull stats, but afaik, it mirrors the LVM tgt CI just fine16:10
smcginnisFrom my understanding, the only reason we hadn't switch was the upgrade question.16:11
jbernardthat's my primary question16:11
jbernardwhat do we and users expect if we change the default16:11
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e0neit would be great to have real numbers how it is stable16:11
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eharneye0ne: we can get real numbers if you would like16:11
eharneyjbernard: the general expectation IMO is don't break upgrades and work the same as the current driver16:12
e0neeharney: AFAIR, we do it each time when we want to get job voting16:12
eharneye0ne: not a problem.16:12
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jbernardeharney: ok, that should be doable16:13
e0nenow, gate-tempest-dsvm-full-lio it not voting16:13
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jbernarde0ne: we'll need to change that16:13
smcginnisThat would need to change.16:13
thingeee0ne: LIO has existed the kernel for sometime. While that doesn't speak on stability, I am aware of it being used in real deployments.16:13
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eharneythe change would be that the regular main job switches to LIO16:13
eharneynot to make the LIO job voting16:13
eharneywhat we would do is create a different job for tgt16:13
smcginniseharney: Good point.16:13
jbernardeharney: ahh, nice16:13
smcginnisThe new tgt one then would need to be voting.16:14
jbernardeharney: swappa-dappa16:14
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eharneybut these are all auxiliary points for now IMO16:14
e0nesmcginnis: +116:14
jbernardim happy to drive the effort, as long as we're all okay with that direction16:14
DuncanTIt doesn't sound like anybody has a problem in principle - we just need to collect up to to-do list and work through it16:14
eharneyright, so let's get to all the other topics here16:15
smcginnisjbernard: Yep, as long as we don't break upgrades, that sounds like the right thing to do.16:15
smcginniseharney, jbernard: Thanks!16:15
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smcginnis#topic Outreachy projects16:15
*** openstack changes topic to "Outreachy projects (Meeting topic: Cinder)"16:15
smcginnisjbernard: Still you. :)16:15
jbernardright, i applied to be a mentor for cinder16:15
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jbernardive got a few project ideas16:15
smcginnisjbernard: Do you have an etherpad or anything like that going?16:16
jbernardbut wanted to raise it here, if anyone has smallish bit-sized projects for new contributers16:16
jbernardsmcginnis: not yet, but i can start one16:16
smcginnisjbernard: That might help. We can direct people there to capture ideas.16:16
xyang2jbernard: does it have to be a project?  can it be bug fixing?16:16
jbernardi think it can be anything that would help the project and allow a contributer to gain experience16:16
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vincent_houlike low hanging fruit?16:17
jbernardso somthing simple like 'convert this driver to use versioned objects'16:17
jbernardor remove taskflow from volume create16:17
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jbernardalthough that's a larger undertaking16:17
smcginnisvincent_hou: Low hanging fruit would be a good way to help people get involved.16:17
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scottdaHow about "add functional test for X"16:17
anteayajbernard: half the work with outreachy is being available everyday, so the mentee keeps showing up16:17
smcginnisvincent_hou: But I don't think we've been good tagging those.16:17
smcginnisscottda: That's a good idea.16:17
DuncanTRemoving taskflow is a fairly epic job to get right now16:17
scottdawe're scarce in functional tests,  and learning  how to test Cinder is a great place to start16:18
jbernardDuncanT: yeah, i take taht one back16:18
diablo_rojosmcginnis: Last time I looked there weren't more than a dozen low hanging fruit tags16:18
jbernardanteaya: no problems ther16:18
diablo_rojoscottda: +116:18
anteayajbernard: wonderful16:18
smcginnisdiablo_rojo: I'm sure there are more, we just need to identify them.16:18
diablo_rojosmcginnis: True.16:18
jbernardill start etherpads for both LIO and outreachy projects post links16:18
anteayafully a 1/3 of the internship is learning our workflow16:19
smcginnisjbernard: Thanks for doing this. We can link the etherpads here if you have them. Or next time.16:19
smcginnisanteaya: Very true!16:19
jbernardsmcginnis: ill have them for next time16:19
dulekjbernard: Any chance you'll post links to the ML?16:19
jbernarddulek: yep, very appropriate16:19
smcginnisjbernard: Perfect, thanks for doing this. I think it's great for the community.16:19
sheeljbernard: +116:19
smcginnis#topic Support for 4-byte unicode for naming volume, snapshot, CG, volume_type etc16:20
jbernardno problem, i hope there are some takers, it'd be great to have new folks16:20
*** openstack changes topic to "Support for 4-byte unicode for naming volume, snapshot, CG, volume_type etc (Meeting topic: Cinder)"16:20
smcginnissheel: You're up.16:20
sheelhello all16:20
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smcginnis#link Bug report16:20
openstackLaunchpad bug 1542413 in Cinder "Unable to use 4-bytes unicode when creating volume, volume_type, CG, etc" [Medium,Confirmed] - Assigned to Jacob Gregor (jgregor)16:20
sheelITs basically to discuss how we are going to handle unicode characters16:20
sheelMySQL's character set which is utf8 does not support 4 byte characters.16:20
sheelShould we prevent this issue(by prohibiting user for not using 4 byte characters) or fix it?16:20
eharneyso i think we already have solved this16:21
sheeleharney: yes we have solved this by prohibiting user16:21
eharneyno, we haven't16:21
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DuncanTeharney: The patch you linked makes our API dependant on the backing DB :-(16:21
eharneyi have a patch up already that solves it by letting it work if the backend db supports it, and responds with the correct error message if it doesn't16:21
eharneyDuncanT: how so?16:21
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sheelyes but that will not allow user to use 4 byte unicode characters16:22
eharneyDuncanT: by not throwing 500 for errors coming from the db...?16:22
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smcginnisDuncanT: You mean something will worlk on one cloud but not another depending on the backing DB?16:22
eharneysheel: why not?16:22
DuncanTeharney: The user has no way to know if they can use 4-byte unicode messages or not unless they try it16:22
mriedemsmcginnis: that would be my concern16:22
mriedemit's not discoverable16:22
eharneythat is true16:22
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smcginnisWell, "discoverable" but not in a good way. ;)16:23
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eharneyso the patch i linked still needs to land, but you are considering adding a more purposeful check at the API layer to prevent it intentionally16:23
DuncanTIMO it is something we really need to be consistent about16:23
jungleboyjeharney: Link?16:23
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sheeleharney: if user tries 4 byte will they wont get error message, though gentle message but still they prohibity user from using it16:23
flip214well, "discoverable" as in "have some trash table and try to insert there", right?16:23
smcginnisThis one?16:23
vincent_houI guess I can try to save Vhinese chars as names to test.16:23
bswartzwhy can't support for 4-byte utf-8 get added to mysql and then we can require that?16:23
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eharneybswartz: i've wondered what the perf implications are of changing to the utf8mb4 char set, does anyone know?16:24
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eharneymysql supports it but you have to create the database in a way that uses it16:24
mriedemjaypipes was talking about this same issue at the nova midcycle16:24
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mriedemso i'd ask jay about the 4-byte utf8 mysql thing16:24
smcginnisI would think maybe a little extra storage overhead, but maybe more?16:24
bswartz4-byte unicode is worth supporting IMO16:24
DuncanTeharney: Can you do a migrate?16:24
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jgregoreharney: Based on some initial investigation I have done, I do not see any major issues that would need to be tackled.16:24
jeblairmordred, SpamapS, or jaypipes may be able to help16:24
eharneyDuncanT: i don't know16:24
smcginnismriedem: Do you remember where that conversation ended up?16:24
mriedemsmcginnis: that it wasn't funh16:25
clarkbyou can migrate16:25
jgregoreharney: We would need to check the maximum length of columns and index keys.16:25
smcginnismriedem: Is there a plan to support in nova?16:25
mriedemsmcginnis: i don't think so16:25
smcginnismriedem: OK, thanks.16:25
clarkband the overhead is 4 bytes per character instead of 316:25
mordredwhat did I do?16:25
jeblairclarkb: probably not the end of the world for volume name fields16:25
jeblairmordred: perf/feasibility implications of 4 byte utf8 in mysql16:26
smcginnisI'm curious if the backends that use the volume name can actually support this too.16:26
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eharneysmcginnis: they probably shouldn't be doing that16:26
smcginniseharney: Yeah16:26
eharneyby which i mean, definitely shouldn't16:26
smcginnisAnd maybe there aren't now, but I thought we had some that were using volume name.16:27
sheelIn that case, I think its better to go with eharney's patch16:27
DuncanTsmcginnis: Once cinder can handle it, we can push some tests into tempest to see what explodes16:27
mc_nairseems useful to coordinate cross-project on this since everyone will be hitting a similar issue16:27
eharneysheel: they're orthogonal16:27
eharneywe need to land patches like mine to go from HTTP 500->400 now16:27
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jungleboyjsmcginnis: I haven't seen that?16:27
eharneyactual support is a different question16:27
smcginnismc_nair: Good point.16:27
eharneywhich can be done alongside or after that16:27
mordredso, last time I cared full 4-byte support was shallow, that might have improved - but the big difference is that size explosion16:27
sheeleharney: yes16:27
smcginnisIf nova is discussing this too, that's a good sign it's a cross project issue.16:27
mordredare we talking for volume names?16:27
jungleboyjmc_nair: Good point.  diablo_rojo ^^^16:27
sheeleharney: that is  true16:27
jeblairmordred: yes16:27
mordredyah. should be fine16:27
DuncanTmordred: Yes16:27
smcginnisSo I think eharney's patch is probably a good first step.16:28
smcginnisBut we need a larger plan.16:28
DuncanTmordred: Probably metadata k/v and similar as well16:28
sheelsmcginnis: yes, that s why i raise this for meeting16:28
mordredjust be aware that you're going to be increasing storage requirements by 4x in indexes at least - and I can't remember whether it's on-disk or in-memory where everything gets blown out to 4-bytes-per-char regardless of if the char is actually a 4-byte char16:28
diablo_rojojungleboyj: Is this something you would like me to bring up in the next cp meeting?16:28
mc_nairthink every project will hit this same discussion for anywhere they let user defined names16:28
mordredfor things like that it's likely a non-issue16:28
clarkbmordred: everything iirc16:28
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clarkb(I had to do this for etherpad)16:29
mordredclarkb: there's one place where it doesn't blow out - but I cannot remember where that is16:29
smcginnisdiablo_rojo: Can you work with sheel and raise this as a cross project issue?16:29
jungleboyjdiablo_rojo: Possibly if that is the concensus here.16:29
flip214that'll get funny on the REST connections (JSON), too16:29
mordredclarkb: safer to just assume it's everytihng16:29
diablo_rojosmcginnis: Definitely16:29
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mordredit's DEFINITELY indexes16:29
sheeldiablo_rojo: smcginnis : thanks16:29
jungleboyjmc_nair: Good call on the cross projectness.16:29
diablo_rojosheel: Maybe we involve jgregor too?16:29
smcginnisOK, let's raise this for CP. I don't think we can decide anything here right now.16:29
eharneyso we're ok with continuing to land patches to go from http 500->400 in the meantime?16:30
mordredwhich tends to be the biggest issue, because it can cause index buffers to get overblown more quickly leading to performance degredation if index buffer sizes are not increased16:30
sheeldiablo_rojo: yup16:30
smcginniseharney: Yes, I think so.16:30
jgregordiablo_rojo: sheel :)16:30
eharneysmcginnis: ok16:30
diablo_rojosheel:  jgregor Cool. We all can chat after the meeting16:30
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mc_nairsmcginnis: +116:30
sheeldiablo_rojo: jgregor :yes16:30
smcginnis#topic New behavior of DocImpact tag16:30
*** openstack changes topic to "New behavior of DocImpact tag (Meeting topic: Cinder)"16:30
sheelsmcginnis:  eharney  +116:30
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smcginnisSo some of you may have noticed this by now.16:31
smcginnisThere's been a change in what happens when you put a DocImpact tag in a commit.16:31
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jungleboyjsmcginnis: sheel Thanks for the attention to this.  It keeps coming up.  Would be good to resolve.16:31
xyang2smcginnis: this behavior doesn't make sense.  it should be a bug in openstack manuals16:31
sheelnew bugs16:31
smcginnisFrom what I understood, in the past it would open a bug against the doc team.16:31
smcginnisxyang2: I actually like it, though it's more work for us.16:31
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hemnawhat does it do now ?16:32
xyang2smcginnis: what do we need to do in cinder?16:32
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eharneyxyang2: don't some of them need to land in release notes that we handle?16:32
sheeljungleboyj: welcome16:32
xyang2eharney: in my case, it is already added to release notes16:32
smcginnisWith the old way manuals would then need to look at the patch and try out what changed and what the doc impact was.16:32
xyang2so I need to add that in openstack manuals16:32
smcginnisMost of the time there was no detail to explain what the doc impact was in the commit.16:32
xyang2not sure what else to change in cinder as it is a new feature in driver16:32
smcginnisSo folks that don't know the code and might not even be programmers were stuck doing investigation.16:32
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mriedemsmcginnis: reviewers can always -1 when there is no explanation in the commit message with the DocImpact tag16:33
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smcginnisSo the new approach is these bugs will not be opened against the project where they came from.16:33
mriedemit's actually in the docs that there should be an explanation16:33
smcginnismriedem: We kinda sorta did that once in awhile.16:33
mtaninomriedem: +116:33
smcginnisSo really there is just one extra step.16:33
jungleboyjsmcginnis: You mean "now be opened"16:33
sheelsmcginnis: I think this is right way, but  how we though about to move with it16:33
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xyang2now it opened a bug in cinder right after the feature was merged in cinder16:34
eharneydoes our use of reno now mean that if we only want release notes, just add them and don't add DocImpact?16:34
mriedemeharney: that's what nova has been doing16:34
xyang2so we need to fix it in openstack manuals and close it in cinder?16:34
smcginniseharney: Sometimes that can be the case.16:34
smcginnisI think we overused DocImpact to be honest.16:34
mriedemDocImpact is really usually only the manuals16:34
mriedemsmcginnis: +116:34
eharneyseems sensible16:34
mtaninoxyang2: Should we also add openstack-manual to the opened bug?16:34
smcginnisBut maybe I can finish explaining the process now. ;)16:34
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openstackLaunchpad bug 1543407 in Cinder " ScaleIO QoS Support" [Undecided,New] - Assigned to Xing Yang (xing-yang)16:35
xyang2here is the bug opened for me automatically16:35
sheelsmcginnis: yes, plz16:35
smcginnisSo the extra step is when a patch lands with DocImpact, we need to add info about the documeentation impact in the bug that is opened.16:35
xyang2but the patch just got merged in cinder16:35
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smcginnisOnce some information about what needs to be documented is added to the bug, it then can be switched over to the manuals project.16:36
xyang2we can add it in the bug but we can only fix it in manuals16:36
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xyang2so there's no more patch to submit in cinder16:36
smcginnisThey then have the information they need to update the manuals.16:36
hemnasmcginnis, is this change documented anywhere ?16:36
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mriedemdoes anything comment on the patch saying there was a bug opened? or you have to hunt for it?16:36
hemnaI'm sure to forget this shit16:36
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mriedemknowing how great LP search works16:37
jgriffith_awayhemna: +1, yeah... we've just made this really difficult IMO16:37
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smcginnisxyang2: Right, it's opened in Cinder so we triage it, then switched to manuals to be closed with a patch.16:37
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hemnajgriffith_away, +1 yah I don't get this change at all.  This is a mess IMHO16:37
mriedemi'd hope the bug is at least tagged with 'documentation'16:37
smcginnishemna: Somewhere, but unfortunately I'm unprepared and don't have that handy.16:37
xyang2smcginnis: ok, right weird16:37
Swansonjgriffith, you're not dead!16:37
hemnabasically it's just going to make people not use DocImpact at all now.16:37
xyang2hemna: tagged with cinder doc16:37
jgriffithSwanson: not quite yet... come back next Tuesday16:37
mriedemwell, honestly, this isn't really any worse than what happened before16:37
smcginnismriedem: The bug gets opened tagged with "cinder" and "doc", so easy to query.16:37
mriedembefore a docs bug would be opened and sit for years16:38
mriedemb/c no details16:38
diablo_rojohemna: +1 I can see that happening16:38
smcginnismriedem: +116:38
hemnayah I don't see a point in even using the tag now.16:38
smcginnisNow we need to think about whether something really is a DocImpact or not.16:38
mriedemnow a cinder bug is opened so there is a marginally better chance someone will ping a person to doc it and send it over to manuals16:38
anteayathe point of the change is to reduce the load on the docs folks as they have not been able to work productively16:38
jgriffithmriedem: don't get me wrong... I'm just saying it's not clear *yet*16:38
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smcginnisWhich we should have been doing in the first place.16:38
smcginnisAnd stop dumping on the manual team to go figure it out.16:38
jgriffithanteaya: and that seems completely fair/reasonable :)16:38
jgriffithsmcginnis: +116:39
anteayaand that's the point but I understand that the change in routine is upsetting16:39
smcginnisSO we definitely still want to use this for new config options and new features.16:39
jungleboyjdiablo_rojo: smcginnis Sounds like something that we will have to monitor.16:39
smcginnisThat requires updates to the docs.16:39
jgriffithanteaya: mriedem smcginnis I was just saying that following your discussion on the process here was kinda confusing.  We need to get it written up clearly and concisely16:39
smcginnisBut now we have the ownership to say what needs to be added.16:39
jgriffithanteaya: mriedem smcginnis and make sure it's easy to find etc16:39
geguileojgriffith: +116:39
mtaninojgriffith: +116:40
smcginnisInstead of assuming someone not part of cinder can figure it out on their own.16:40
anteayajgriffith: that is reasonable16:40
mriedemjgriffith: so write docs about the docs process? :)16:40
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mriedemit's a catch-2216:40
hemnamriedem, :)16:40
e0nejgriffith: +116:40
jgriffithmriedem: well.. no it's not16:40
smcginnisjgriffith: Confusing for sure.16:40
diablo_rojosmcginnis: is there a reason why this happened isnstead of just forcing people to explain the DocImpact tag in the commit?16:40
sheelsmcginnis: so, may be this can be monitored by cinder-bug team member and just assign this to member who worked on patch to add this infomation16:40
jgriffithmriedem: if you want process that's how it works :)16:40
smcginnisWoudl have been a lot less if I could have just explained it first. :)16:40
jgriffithmriedem: Oh... ok... :)16:40
jungleboyjSomething that everyone shoudl be responsible for.  And everyone can help out with.16:40
mriedemi <3 process16:40
jgriffithmriedem: sorry16:40
anteayadiablo_rojo: because people weren't16:40
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jgriffithmriedem: you do not!!!16:40
smcginnissheel: That's waht I've been doing.16:40
sheelsmcginnis: yup, i see this16:41
mriedemdiablo_rojo: b/c reviewers weren't enforcing that16:41
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smcginnismriedem: +116:41
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sheelI wil try to overload you for this16:41
diablo_rojoanteaya: I wasn't aware that was something we had to do otherwise I definitely would have :/16:41
* jgriffith is certainly guilty16:41
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anteaya#link this email to the -dev list may help
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diablo_rojoanteaya: Thanks :)16:41
smcginnisBringing it up here so folks understand now and know what it means to us.16:41
jungleboyjdiablo_rojo: ++16:41
* jgriffith catches maybe 1 in 10... or 1 in 10016:41
smcginnisanteaya: Thanks!!16:41
anteayadiablo_rojo: well now you have expanded your awareness16:41
anteayasmcginnis: welcome16:41
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diablo_rojoanteaya: True :)16:42
DuncanTdiablo_rojo: Many people weren't aware, including reviews, don't feel bad16:42
smcginnisAnd on that, I'm done talking doc bugs. Bleh.16:42
hemnajgriffith, +116:42
xyang2smcginnis: thingee used to hold off the release notes until a doc patch is added, but now we are adding release notes as part of the patch16:42
smcginnis#topic Deprecating cinder client16:42
*** openstack changes topic to "Deprecating cinder client (Meeting topic: Cinder)"16:42
diablo_rojoDuncanT: its an easy thing to look at and I totally would have had I know, but oh well. New process here we come16:42
smcginnisthingee: Hey16:42
jungleboyjWell, now we need to be aware of the doc bugs and get people responding.16:42
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jungleboyjdiablo_rojo: ++16:42
thingeeso deprecating cinder client in favor of the openstack client
DuncanTA wild Mike appears....16:42
smcginnisWe've talked about this some here and at the midcycle.16:43
thingeeyour wonderful cp-spec liaison has brought this up a few times16:43
DuncanTthingee: Did you see the notes from the midcycle about this?16:43
e0newe decided to not do it in Mitaka16:43
thingeeas I understand the author of the spec has already been in contact with smcginnis about this16:43
* diablo_rojo blushes16:43
smcginnisI agree we want to have osc be the one CLI to rule them all.16:43
smcginnisSome day16:43
thingeeDuncanT: no16:43
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* SpamapS perks up at the mention of utf8. Please to ping me when open discussion begins or we can loop back to that topic.16:43
smcginnisWe need to get to feature parity between cinderclient and osc.16:44
smcginnisThen we can start thinking about deprecating.16:44
hemnasmcginnis, +116:44
smcginnisUntil then, I'm not going to change anything.16:44
thingeeSo I started looking at osc and cinder client and noticed there is quite a bit missing16:44
thingeeyes exactly16:44
hemnaI don't think it makes any sense to deprecate right now.16:44
smcginnisthingee: Yeah. :/16:44
jgriffithsmcginnis: thingee ???16:44
smcginnisjbernard: Outreachy ^^16:44
smcginnisjbernard: Add cinderclient functionality to osc.16:44
scottdaWe hope to land microversions soon. I was told OSC does not yet support microversions16:44
thingeeso wanted to see what the group thought on this effort16:44
diablo_rojohemna: You had posted a pretty huge list in the reviews and that wasn't complete right?16:44
hemnasmcginnis, thingee I even pointed out some of those differences in the gerrit review for the client deprecation.16:44
thingeeit's not going to get better as people keep adding to cinder client16:45
hemnadiablo_rojo, correct.  I took a 5 minute pass and lined out many items that were missing.16:45
jgriffiththingee: let's be clear here... this is just cli16:45
smcginnisthingee: On the other hand, we can't stop improving things waiting for osc to get caught up.16:45
jgriffiththingee: osc uses cinderclient16:45
diablo_rojohemna: and there were some pretty important things missing there16:45
jgriffiththingee: correct?16:45
thingeejgriffith: yup, that's true. so we cinder client needs it still16:45
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thingeeforgot about that16:45
thingeebut anyways, the effort towards getting stuff moved over...16:46
jungleboyjSo, we need to be making sure that anything that is touching cinderclient also get as change to OSC as well.  Right?16:46
DuncanTthingee: We were wondering if there was a way to put the cinder bits in cinder-client and have OSC suck them out, rather than needing to go to the OSC repo for every new feature?16:46
thingeejungleboyj: yes16:46
jungleboyjReviewers!!!  :-)16:46
jgriffithjungleboyj: if you want a cli for it yes16:46
DuncanTthingee: i.e. make it discover stuff out of cinder-client16:46
smcginnisDuncanT: Oh yeah, forgot that. That would be ideal.16:46
jungleboyjjgriffith: Right.16:46
jgriffithjungleboyj: it's just cli impact16:46
thingeeDuncanT: not that I'm aware of, but it's really just setting the CLI to the cinder client method it should call16:46
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jgriffithjungleboyj: righty ho16:46
thingeein theory nothing too crazy16:46
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jungleboyjjgriffith: Right.  Understood.  Just wanted to make note here.16:47
hemnajungleboyj, OSC needs CLI commands to what cinderclient already provides.16:47
jgriffithDuncanT: ^^16:47
DuncanTthingee: Going through another review cycle unnecessarily is pretty crazy IMO16:47
hemnathere are lots of things missing that OSC needs to support.16:47
hemnaDuncanT, +116:47
e0nethingee: we're are going to try to implement OSC plugin inside cniderclient16:47
smcginnisI'm going to move on as I don't think we can do anything immediately on this and we have other stuff to cover.16:47
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jgriffithDuncanT: no magic there... just a lot of work16:47
jungleboyjhemna: Understood.  And we need to be aware taht any future CLI changes shouldn't be missed.16:47
smcginnis#topic Status of api-microversions patch set16:47
*** openstack changes topic to "Status of api-microversions patch set (Meeting topic: Cinder)"16:47
smcginnisscottda: Hey16:47
DuncanTjgriffith: Needs more magic16:47
jgriffithDuncanT: :)16:47
thingeesmcginnis: so my point of this was anybody care? anybody interested in working on this.16:48
smcginnisthingee: I think yes.16:48
scottdapatches pass Jenkins and are ready for review16:48
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diablo_rojoDuncanT: Theres always a need for more magic :)16:48
smcginnisthingee: I'm hoping to spend a little time on it as well.16:48
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smcginnisscottda: Anything missing yet?16:48
DuncanTthingee: I might try to prototype my idea, or convince somebody else to16:48
hemnascottda, we finally passing Jenkins?16:48
scottdaI'm hopeful I can get tests (functional, tempest) up as a separate patch16:48
scottdahemna: We were passing Jenkins, but /v3 enpoint had to be added. Passing now.16:49
diablo_rojoDuncanT: if you can prototype it you could get your ATC code16:49
scottdaAnd I've adressed any review comments that I know of16:49
smcginnisdiablo_rojo: Hah!16:49
smcginnisDuncanT: She got you.16:49
hemnascottda, excellent.16:49
diablo_rojoscottda: Good work.16:50
scottdaI hope review objections can be made soon, so fixes can be made, etc. ....We're getting close to feature freeze16:50
smcginnisscottda: Live demo?16:50
hemnascottda, I'll help review16:50
scottdaI can also do a demo,16:50
jungleboyjscottda: Good news.16:50
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jungleboyjscottda: Will try to look.16:50
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scottdaThurs or Fri at 16:00 UTC? (this meeting time)?16:50
smcginnisscottda: Thinking google hangout recorded to our Youtube channel?16:50
scottdasmcginnis: yes16:50
scottdaHow about Friday 16:00 UTC?16:51
smcginnisscottda: That would be great to have.16:51
smcginnisscottda: I think that time works for me.16:51
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scottdaOK, I'll set it up and post to ML16:51
hemnascottda, google hangout ?16:51
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smcginnisscottda: Thanks for working on this. A lot involved to get that through.16:51
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scottdahemna: yes, + Youtube (I'll need your help with that, I reckon)16:51
hemnascottda, I can setup a youtube live stream to host it16:51
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smcginnisA/V Club to the rescue. :)16:52
scottdaSoooo...can functional/tempest tests be added as a separate patch set?16:52
jungleboyjhemna: Is our hero!16:52
smcginnisscottda: I think so.16:52
smcginnisscottda: I wouldn't want to cram too much in one patchset.16:52
smcginnisscottda: Probably better to break it out.16:52
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scottdaOK, so please beat up on it ASAP16:52
hemnais that 8am PST ?16:53
jungleboyjsmcginnis: Do you think scottda is trustworthy?  ;-)16:53
hemnathis Friday ?16:53
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scottdahemna: Yes. Same time as this meeting, but on Friday16:53
smcginnisjungleboyj: We know where he lives.16:53
hemnacrap, I can't make that time.16:53
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smcginnisscottda: Oh, actually I have a conflict too.16:53
scottdaI can push out 1 hour? 17:00 UTC Friday? Too late for e0ne and DuncanT ?16:53
DuncanTOk for me16:54
e0ne17:00 UTC is good for me16:54
smcginnisscottda: I'm bust until 17:30 UTC.16:54
eharneyFYI we still have HA on the agenda and six minutes left16:54
smcginnisBut if we capture this in a video I think that's OK.16:54
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scottdaOK, we can debate the times in channel afterwards.16:54
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scottdaThat's it. Move on.16:54
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smcginnis#info Tentative demo time, 17:00 UTC Friday16:55
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smcginnis#topic Job distribution for HA A/A16:55
*** openstack changes topic to "Job distribution for HA A/A (Meeting topic: Cinder)"16:55
smcginnisgeguileo: Hi16:55
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geguileoFor job distribution, do we need/want to disable specific nodes?16:55
DuncanTgeguileo: yes16:55
geguileoShould this disabling have the same effect as disabling has now (only prevent scheduler RPC calls)? Or should it also prevent the node from processing RPC calls coming from the API nodes?16:55
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DuncanTgeguileo: The later if there are other nodes in the group IMO, though that is a nice-to-have rather than a hard requirement16:56
geguileoDuncanT: If I remember correctly you wanted to stop them completely, right?16:56
DuncanTgeguileo: It would be nice for disable to mean 'leave that node the hell alone'16:56
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geguileoOk, then the idea I propose is to stop the RPC server16:57
geguileoWhen the node is disabled and start it again when it is enabled again16:57
geguileoFor that we would be polling the DB to see the status of disabled16:57
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geguileoThe alternative is creating a new message queue for each backend-node pair16:57
smcginnis2 minute warning16:58
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geguileoAnd getting the enable/disable in that queue16:58
geguileoAny preference?16:58
DuncanTgeguileo: Or having more than one RPC channel to the manager16:58
DuncanTAh, yes, new message queue, same thing16:58
jgriffithgeguileo: DuncanT is there a possibility of doing something more simple first?16:58
DuncanTBetter than polling I think16:58
geguileojgriffith: Yep, not allowing disabling nodes16:58
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jgriffithgeguileo: DuncanT like a disable in the manager?  Or say like setting a check in rpc.api for service status?16:59
flip214DRBD has the same problem... a "normal" disconnect might take very long (draining buffers), forced does it NOW... with bad side effects.16:59
DuncanTjgriffith: disabling nodes I'd really like, but if that is only at the scheduler level I'm fine with that as a starter16:59
geguileoDuncanT: I think it's also better but it may be considerably more complicated and will duplicate our queues16:59
jgriffithfor both cast and call16:59
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smcginnisPick this up again next week?16:59
flip214don't know which would be more appropriate here, though... I guess waiting for all tasks currently in-progress might takes up to hours16:59
jgriffithDuncanT: I agree with you, just wonder if there's a way to do it without trying to be too clever and showing off :)17:00
smcginnisOr discuss in channel.17:00
smcginnisNo showing off??17:00
DuncanTflip214: Disable shouldn't normally kill running tasks... that's kind of the point IMO17:00
jgriffithsmcginnis: :)17:00
smcginnisAlright, we're out of time.17:00
smcginnisThanks everyone.17:00
geguileojgriffith: I'm really looking for the simplest solution17:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"17:00
openstackMeeting ended Wed Feb 10 17:00:48 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:00
openstackMinutes (text):
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jlvillal#startmeeting ironic_qa17:01
openstackMeeting started Wed Feb 10 17:01:18 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jlvillal. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ironic_qa)"17:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ironic_qa'17:01
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jlvillalSorry I'm late17:01
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jlvillal#topic Announcements17:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: ironic_qa)"17:02
jlvillalI don't have any announcements.17:02
jlvillalDoes anyone else have anything to announce?17:02
krtaylormjturek1, maurosr - want to plug your ironic session?17:03
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mjturek1sure, if it's not frowned upon17:03
mjturek1we have a ironic QA session for summit up for voting17:03
jlvillalSure. I guess :)17:03
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jlvillal#info mjturek1 maurosr Have an Ironic QA related session up for voting17:04
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mjturek1grabbing it now17:04
krtaylorwell I'd encourage everyone to vote for their favorite talks17:04
mjturek1thanks krtaylor17:04
jlvillalAny other announcements?17:04
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jlvillalOkay moving on....17:04
jlvillal#topic Grenade testing17:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Grenade testing (Meeting topic: ironic_qa)"17:05
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jlvillal#info jlvillal again got involved with other work and didn't have time this past week. Things are looking much better for this week.17:05
jlvillalSorry about that folks.17:05
jlvillalBut I think my work in bringing up a bunch of servers is ramping down. So I should have more cycles this week.17:06
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jlvillal#topic Announcements17:06
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*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: ironic_qa)"17:06
jlvillal#info No meeting next week, as we have the virtual mid-cycle17:06
sambettsTinyIPA merged17:07
devanandasambetts: o/^517:07
jlvillal#info TinyIPA merged!17:07
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jlvillal#topic Functional testing17:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Functional testing (Meeting topic: ironic_qa)"17:07
mjturek1hey jlvillal, maurosr and I have an quick update on functional testing17:07
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jlvillalmjturek1: Great!17:07
mjturek1We started some initial investigations on functional testing, and we're thinking the nova code base would be a better basis than glance.17:07
jlvillalFeel free to #info things17:07
mjturek1Specifically, the use of fixtures to create the services seems to be the right approach, though we are totally up for suggestions.17:08
jlvillalSounds reasonable to me. From when I was looking at the fixtures.17:08
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mjturek1very cool17:08
mjturek1We've started adding some code for creating fixtures for the ironic services. Though we haven't published it anywhere yet (it's not tested/functional yet)17:08
jlvillalThe Nova stuff sort of confused me as it was an onion of layers it seemed.17:08
mjturek1lol, yeah it took some time to understand what was going on there17:09
jlvillalOne class led to another class to another class.  Etc.. From what I remember.17:09
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mjturek1yep very true17:09
jlvillalMy head started hurting... :)17:09
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maurosrjlvillal: we're curious though about what ironic team decided to belong or not to functional testing17:09
jlvillalmaurosr: Not quite sure I understand that question.17:09
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jlvillalI think in general we would like to have functional testing to exercise the code more and hopefully improve the quality of the code.17:10
jlvillalNot sure if that answers the question maurosr17:10
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jlvillalOh, I think you are asking what should functional testing test?17:10
jlvillalIs that correct?17:11
maurosrjlvillal: it does, so I think that includes several areas, like api, db, conductor and such17:11
maurosryeah, exactly17:11
krtaylorhm, well initially functional moving out of tempest was a place to move tests that were to big or slow for gate, but we have morphed that a bit to be a more simple way for ironic devs to test functionality as well17:11
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jlvillalSo my thought for functional testing is to have it as isolated as we can. As few external dependencies as possible.17:11
jlvillalWe already have tempest testing for testing it as part of the bigger project.17:11
jlvillalSo functional testing would be ironic-api and ironic-conductor and any bare essentials to make those work.17:12
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maurosrjlvillal: so do you agree that most of tempest's api testing could be moved to functional?17:12
jlvillalMaybe that would be RabbitMQ or maybe there is a way to use oslo.messaging without RabbitMQ17:12
maurosrwe probably want to keep only the scenario tests on ironic side, correct?17:12
jlvillalmaurosr: Not sure about 'moved'.  But maybe we could 'copy' a lot of it. If it works.17:12
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jlvillalI don't want us to lessen what the tempest tests are doing.17:13
maurosrok, got it17:13
mjturek1is this something we should bring up at midcycle (what functional tests should excercise)?17:13
devanandawe can not remove the API testing from tempest17:13
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maurosrdevananda: I didn't meant to remove from tempest, but from ironic's tempest plugin17:14
devanandaand in fact, with the move to our tempest plugin, we need to start being very mindful of how we change those things17:14
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krtaylorfunctional testing was meant to be moved out of tempest testing for projects that had a huge slow gate, they were meant to be periodic, but we don't have that problem with gate being bloated17:14
jlvillal#info maurosr mjturek1 have started some initial investigations on functional testing, and are thinking the nova code base would be a better basis than glance.17:14
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krtayloryes, lets discuss at midcycle17:15
devanandatempest API tests are the basis of defcore. ironic is not part of the set of projects currently considered for defcore ... but if we ever hope to be, those API tests would be the basis17:15
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jlvillal#info Tempest API tests should remain in tempest.  Tempest API tests could be used to help in writing functional tests. But tests should not be "moved" from Tempest to functional.17:16
jlvillalAnything else on functional testing?17:17
mjturek1not at the moment17:17
mjturek1thanks for the info tagging jlvillal17:17
jlvillalAnd now onto my favorite part of the meeting17:17
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jlvillal#topic 3rd Party CI (krtarylor)17:17
*** openstack changes topic to "3rd Party CI (krtarylor) (Meeting topic: ironic_qa)"17:17
jlvillalkrtaylor: All yours. Please #info things of note :)17:18
krtaylorhehheh, favorite?17:18
* jlvillal doesn't have to do anything :)17:18
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krtaylornothing to report this week, I too have been swamped with downstream activity, but it lifted today17:18
krtaylorI am hoping to get help from mjturek1 and maurosr for some doc changes based on their summit talk proposal17:19
krtaylorbut thats about it17:19
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jlvillalkrtaylor: Anything on emails sent or anything else?17:19
jlvillalDeadlines?  etc...17:19
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krtaylorI have not seen any replies, but they may have gone directly to thingee17:20
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jlvillalkrtaylor: There was an email sent out last week.  Correct?17:20
krtayloryes, thingee sent a detailed message, excellent17:20
thingeeHave not receieved anything17:21
krtaylorok, good to know17:21
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jlvillalkrtaylor: Anything you want to #info before we move on?17:21
krtaylorI think we're good for now, back to you17:22
jlvillal#topic Opens / General QA17:22
*** openstack changes topic to "Opens / General QA (Meeting topic: ironic_qa)"17:22
jlvillalAnyone?  Anyone? ...17:22
devanandakrtaylor: how many vendor/drivers have not yet responded // put up a CI thing?17:23
jlvillalthingee: ^^^ maybe you know?17:24
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krtaylordevananda, I still need to crawl through that and identify those that have not done all the steps, han't had the time17:24
sambettsI'm still waiting for my lab team to put together my rack and then I'll be getting our (Cisco) CI up and running, I've created the wiki page with the accounts etc and just put down a status of In development17:24
thingeedevananda: it should be all in that etherpad we've been communicating from the previous meeting17:25
* thingee digs it up17:25
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jlvillalAnything else?17:26
devanandathingee: thanks17:26
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jlvillalOkay. Thanks a lot everyone for attending.17:27
jlvillalHave a good day/evening.17:27
jlvillalRemember no meeting next week due to the mid-cycle.17:27
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"17:27
openstackMeeting ended Wed Feb 10 17:27:39 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:27
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sheelSpamapS: hi regarding your ping for utf8 discussion18:50
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skraynev_#startmeeting heat20:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Feb 10 20:00:05 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is skraynev_. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:00
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skraynev_#topic rollcall20:00
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skraynev_anybody here?20:00
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skraynev_ramishra: ping20:01
skraynev_#topic Adding items to agenda20:02
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skraynev_does anybody want to add something else?20:02
skraynev_ok. let's start with existing items :)20:03
skraynev_#topic ec2-token migration to OS resources20:04
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skraynev_shardy: I have seen some mail thread about it. And it looks for me as a good candidate for summit session20:05
stevebakerskraynev_: agenda item, evaluating convergence as the default20:05
shardyskraynev_: why are you thinking a summit session is needed?20:05
skraynev_shardy: could you clarify a bit current status of it?20:05
skraynev_shardy: because I don't know where we are in  this area.20:06
skraynev_stevebaker: sure20:06
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shardyskraynev_: so there are two things - one is moving the default metadata/signal transport away from depending on the CFN API by default20:06
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skraynev_and it's in progress afaik20:06
shardyand the other is that keystone folks are planning to move the ec2tokens implementation to a different repo20:06
shardyI've only recently heard about the latter, we need to keep track of it and ensure it doesn't break us20:07
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shardyskraynev_: we've not changed any defaults yet have we?20:07
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skraynev_shardy: I thought, that I have seen some patch on review20:08
shardyI haven't proposed any patches, but I have started looking into how we may avoid breaking existing deployments such as TripleO20:08
skraynev_Drago: hi20:08
shardyskraynev_: I haven't yet, I'll be happy to send a followup mail to the list tho, where we can work out what needs to be done20:08
skraynev_shardy: another repo sounds like a new requirements in future20:08
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shardyskraynev_: yes, long term we may want to look at following the path of other projects and decouple the AWS compatibility APIs from the main repo20:10
shardythen we can decouple the requirements20:10
shardyI don't see how we can really discuss that until we no longer depend on the CFN API by default tho20:10
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skraynev_shardy: got it. do you know when keystone team plan to move ec2tokens to another repo?20:11
shardyskraynev_: No, the first I learned about it was on the ML this week20:11
skraynev_because if it is planned as part of Mitaka we have a really short time period20:11
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shardyskraynev_: Yeah, I hope it's only a deprecation for mitaka20:11
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skraynev_shardy: yes. I currently open first mail too.20:12
stevebakershardy: I think it is reasonable to request that whatever keystone does it should be possible for the current ec2token endpoint to continue working - even if it proxies to something else. Otherwise things may break20:12
skraynev_shardy: so we have enough time for doing it. just need to keep it in mind, as you said20:12
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shardythat's the thread btw20:12
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shardystevebaker: Yeah, I think we need the keystone team to clarify the migration plan20:13
shardyalso that v2.0 compatibility of tokens thing mentioned worries me20:13
shardyas it implies trust scoped tokens won't work with v2.0 auth anymore20:13
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shardywhich would be a problem for many deployments unless it's papered over by authtoken middlware20:13
shardyhopefully folks will reply to the thread soon and we can discuss further there20:14
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shardystevebaker: one advantage is we actually maintain our own ec2token middleware20:14
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shardyso if we have to, we can work around some sorts of breakages or moves in there20:15
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stevebakershardy: I suggested as much some time ago - if keystone are deprecating it then maybe we should just bring that logic into the heat tree20:16
shardystevebaker: Yeah, although other AWS compatibility APIs need it, so a common repo somewhere makes sense long term20:16
skraynev_stevebaker: I am not a big fan of maintaining some deprecated somewhere code20:17
skraynev_stevebaker:  but if we have not alternative I tend to agree with this suggestion20:17
stevebakersure, but consumable as a lib (and rest api for those that really need it)20:17
stevebakerlike tripleo-common20:18
shardyI think enough things depend on it that there will have to be a common repo somewhere20:18
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skraynev_stevebaker: yeah. I understand.20:18
shardyit's not that much logic, only the signature calculation code really20:18
shardythe credentials API in keystone isn't going anwywhere AIUI, which is what backs the ec2tokens extension in v320:19
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shardyanyway, lets move on, we can continue this on the ML20:20
skraynev_shardy: ok. thank you for the clarification. now I know what happens with this stuff20:20
skraynev_#topic OSC commands20:21
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skraynev_stevebaker: do we have any progress with it?20:21
prazumovsky_I have one little question about osc patches20:21
skraynev_I plan to enjoy review  of some patches tomorrow20:21
stevebakerprogress is good but we *really* need reviews for things to land
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skraynev_prazumovsky_ : what is the question?20:22
stevebakerclient lib freeze is in 2.5 weeks so we have a shot at having 1.0.0 ready for that20:22
skraynev_stevebaker: aha. so it's the same dates as for m-3, right?20:23
prazumovsky_Why one of them have methods on module level (like in and another are inner class methods (like in
shardystevebaker: is it worth having an etherpad with the full list of patches?20:23
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markvansuggestion, maybe we go top to bottom of etherpad cmd list to prevent unneeded rebasing churn unless your patch in next.  Most are ready, if one is not note that in the review and move on20:23
stevebakershardy: there is one, hang on20:23
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shardyjonesbr: thanks!20:23
prazumovsky_I mean, why some of them are out of the classes20:24
stevebakermarkvan, jonesbr: hi!20:24
prazumovsky_it's confusing me20:24
stevebakerprazumovsky_: developer preference20:24
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stevebakerthey are private functions, someone can always refactor to a consistent style later20:25
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prazumovsky_hm... how about incapsulation?20:25
prazumovsky_stevebaker: thanks20:26
markvanyeah, I was trying to follow the current style, but could be changed later20:26
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stevebakermarkvan, jonesbr: I might reorder that etherpad so reviewers can focus on the top items20:26
prazumovsky_IMO, if method using only in one class, it should be in it20:26
prazumovsky_(oh it's boring formatting...:-) )20:26
skraynev_prazumovsky_: looks like we can fix/refactor it later20:26
jonesbrstevebaker: That would help us rebase the patches in order as well20:27
skraynev_prazumovsky_: you may file a bug as a reminder for these changes20:27
prazumovsky_ok, thanks20:27
markvanprazumovsky_: yup I would not disagree with your point20:27
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stevebakermarkvan, jonesbr: do you know if Amey is still contributing?20:28
jonesbrstevebaker: we contacted him and he gave us control of his patches20:28
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ryansbprazumovsky_: I don't see why it has to be in the class - if the usage/ownership is clear in file structure that's ok too20:28
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stevebakerjonesbr: ok, it doesn't look like there are any orphaned changes at the moment, so good.20:29
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neelashah1stevebaker there is one that has seen no activity in almost a month, I just sent an email to them today to check if they plan to continue on it…otherwise jonesbr or markvan can pick that up - …for this patch -
stevebakerneelashah1: yeah, feel free to just take that over if there is no response20:31
skraynev_go to the next one.20:32
neelashah1ok, thanks stevebaker20:32
skraynev_#topic evaluating convergence as the default20:32
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stevemarstevebaker and shardy sorry this is off topic, but the plans to move the ec2 bits around (or out) in keystone is on hold until the summit20:32
stevemarthings are staying as-is for M, we're too late to start shaking things up20:33
skraynev_hm. I don't see any one from HP guys, who have patches on review for convergence20:33
stevebakerstevemar: oh cool, thanks for the update20:33
shardystevemar: thanks for the clarification, will be good to join your session & discuss the migration plan at summit then :)20:33
stevebakerstevemar: consider our request that nothing break duely lodged ;)20:33
skraynev_stevemar: great. could you please post link on session if you decide to schedule it on summit ?20:33
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stevemarskraynev_: will do. stevebaker request has been noted :)20:34
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skraynev_stevemar: thank you20:34
randallburtregarding convergence as the default, I am −2 on that at this point.20:34
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skraynev_randallburt: could you add more details : why?20:35
randallburttrying to rebase and fix and I'm running into one of the scenarios that looks broken from convergence standpoint20:35
shardyI'm also worried about it - I've tried testing a couple of times and ran into DB scalability/connection issues both times20:35
randallburtalso, scenario coverage is still a bit incomplete.20:35
stevebakerI periodically switch to convergence and try deploying tripleo - my issues at the moment are around stack deleting20:35
randallburtsabeen has run into a breaking case for cancel update as well and there's no unit test coverage for that as well20:36
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randallburtsabeen was seeing similar stevebaker20:36
openstackLaunchpad bug 1523748 in heat "Convergence: Nothing returned from resource-list after stack-delete is called" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Sirushti Murugesan (sirushtim)20:36
skraynev_stevebaker: shardy: we have one important fix here
openstackLaunchpad bug 1542123 in heat "Convergence: stack-delete stalls on stacks stuck with IN_PROGRESS resources" [Undecided,New]20:36
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shardystevebaker: interesting, I tried that a couple of months ago and ran into DB issues, similar to what I found when doing stress tests previously20:36
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randallburtthis fix is also important:
shardyI would suggest we defer switching anything until N, but document it in the release notes as ready for more serious testing20:37
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shardythen in N, we can consider switching some non-heat CI jobs to enable it, e.g one of the TripleO jobs20:38
randallburtshardy:  +120:38
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stevebakerand commit to backporting fixes to Mitaka until it turns out that backports are too big20:39
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randallburtstevebaker:  do we strictly *have* to do that?20:39
randallburtstevebaker:  for convergence that is20:39
shardystevebaker: +1 backporting bugfixes where reasonable sounds OK to me20:39
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randallburtoh, ok, as long as there's a "this is too disruptive, no backport" option20:40
stevebakerrandallburt: there may be users who want to switch, like tripleo20:40
skraynev_shardy: Then it make sense do during month after m-320:40
stevebakerrandallburt: yeah, thats what I meant by "too big"20:40
randallburtstevebaker:  IMO they should wait for N to do that though20:40
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skraynev_otherwise it may be more difficult for backporting, I suppose20:40
randallburtstevebaker:  its def not in a state for production use in M.20:40
stevebakerrandallburt: sure20:40
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shardyI think it's about the message - saying we commit to reasonable bugfix backports shows we want non-developer consumers of heat to actually use it and report back20:41
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skraynev_stevebaker: shardy: I will send mail about our plan to openstack-dev . That convergence is officially ready for testing and it's still alternative feature, which can contain some sporadic errors.20:42
randallburtsure, I'm ok with it for certain values of "reasonable" :)20:42
ryansbalso higher risk backports might be acceptable since it's a nondefault20:42
ryansb(note: that isn't a license to ignore "reasonable")20:43
skraynev_also what do you think about doing convergence default in N master after rc-1 ?20:43
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shardyskraynev_: I think it is too soon20:43
shardywe have to get feedback from real consumers of heat for a while, e.g a TripleO CI job running for a month or so20:44
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randallburtshardy:  however, it *would* provide some incentive for those (like myself) that are coming in late to help20:44
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skraynev_shardy: ok. can we then enable it for our tripleo job on gate20:45
skraynev_and after 1 month from this event do it default ?20:45
shardyrandallburt: I guess, but I see it as poor form to force an unstable feature on all users by default because we've not found all the bugs yet ;)20:45
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shardyskraynev_: Yeah, perhaps we can get the tripleo job running against heat again by default20:45
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skraynev_my main idea is to have defined time line for convergence20:46
shardyand make that enable convergence on the undercloud20:46
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skraynev_sounds like a plan.20:47
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shardyRelated to convergence, there is a propoal to add Tacker (NFV orchestration service) to the big tent:20:48
skraynev_#action skraynev will send mail about convergence related plans20:48
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shardythere is a comment from russellb that some aspects of their proposed functionality may overlap with our long term roadmap for convergence20:48
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shardyit'd be good to get some feedback there from folks close to the convergence work20:49
randallburtouch. that commit message tho20:49
shardye.g to add a summary of the current state, and the immediate roadmap20:49
russellbrandallburt: the tacker one?  yeah.  it's acronym heavy.  read my version in a comment that tries to explain it with less telco buzz.20:49
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shardyrandallburt: heh, yeah it's pretty acronym heavy ;)20:49
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randallburtreading now russellb. thanks!20:50
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russellbit's a bit of an essay ..20:50
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skraynev_russellb: 100 % like an essay :)20:51
stevebakertacker uses heat, but ancient tacker didn't use heat to provision nova - I haven't got a clear answer if that has changed20:51
skraynev_but looks interesting20:51
russellbstevebaker: it has a "nova" driver and a "heat" driver20:51
stevebakerhmm, ok20:52
russellbfor its "infrastructure driver" option ...20:52
russellbi asked if that was just for historical reasons, or if there was some reason the nova driver was still there20:52
skraynev_#topic Open discussion20:52
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shardyI guess the question is do we need to be actively collaborating on "monitoring, healing and scaling" aspects20:52
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shardyit'd certainly be good to get visibility of their requirements in that area20:53
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russellbthey monitor VMs with ping or simple HTTP requests, and if it stops responding, it will execute some policy.  policy is pretty simple too: respawn, log_and_kill, log20:54
zaneboh hey it's meeting day20:54
ryansbzaneb: yup..20:54
russellbsome more info on
skraynev_zaneb: hey. we are really close to the end20:54
russellblooks like they want to do auto-scaling too ...20:55
stevebakerthey should really be talking to the Senlin folk then20:55
russellbjust occurred to me as something that really shouldn't be tacker-specific20:55
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stevebakerbecause that would be a significant overlap20:55
russellbok, if there's another project that should be looked at, a comment on the review would be great20:55
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ryansbI guess everyone wants in on that sweet, sweet autoscale action. If only there were a project trying to do autoscaling...really well...20:55
randallburtyeah, it sounds like this could/should leverage several other openstack apis20:56
shardyrussellb: thanks for highlighting it, there are certainly several potential areas for integration by the look of it20:56
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russellb*nods* that's what we're trying to figure out for their application20:57
russellbbasically, are they sufficiently taking advantage of existing stuff vs. reinventing stuff20:57
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skraynev_time is out20:59
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skraynev_thank you all.20:59
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skraynev_all questions and discussion -> #heat20:59
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openstackMeeting ended Wed Feb 10 20:59:48 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)20:59
openstackMinutes (text):
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notmynamethanks, heat, for continuing to be awesome with the meeting times :-)21:00
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notmynameswift meeting time21:00
notmyname#startmeeting swift21:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Feb 10 21:00:25 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)"21:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'swift'21:00
notmynamewho's here for the swift meeting?21:00
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* onovy 21:01
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notmynamewelcome, everyone21:02
notmynameclayg: ping21:02
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notmynameagenda ^21:02
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notmynamea few things to go over this week21:02
notmynamea couple of general things first21:03
notmyname#topic general things21:03
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notmynamesummit talk voting is open. so do that21:03
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notmynamealso, there's been some questions about releases for swiftclient and swift-bench21:03
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notmynameI'll work on getting those done before the hackathon (within the next 2 weeks)21:04
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notmynameand lastly, I've finished my summary of responses to the "what's going on in swift" questions I asked a few weeks ago21:04
notmynameI sent it out to a few people, and assuming nobody comes back real soon with a "this is totally terrible", I'll publish that for the world to see21:05
notmynamehopefully later today or tomorrow21:05
notmyname#topic hackathon21:06
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notmynamethe hackathon is coming up! have you got your plane tickets and passport yet?21:06
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notmynamethere is an etherpad to collect ideas to talk about in bristol21:06
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notmynamethank you for adding stuff :-)21:07
notmynameany questions about the hackathon?21:07
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clayggah I don't *want* to vote on summit topics - I did *every* session last time and it took ---- FOREVAR21:08
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notmynamethe votes are advisory to the track chairs21:09
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clayglol - ORLY!?21:09
notmynameso you can either say that it doesn't count or it's the way to make your voice heard. just depends on your perspective :-)21:09
mattoliveraulol, and clayg if you don't do it, who will!21:09
claygoh gosh i need to read the hackathon21:09
joeljwrightclayg: I already volunteered you for a session…21:10
claygFWIW my only plan is to take the much needed time away from work for upstream focus to merge fast-POST (bonus points if I get to reconstructor or concurrent gets changes)21:10
joeljwrightclayg: but only at the hackathon21:10
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notmynamesounds like a nice segue to talk about patches21:11
notmyname#topic patches -- auditor bug21:11
*** openstack changes topic to "patches -- auditor bug (Meeting topic: swift)"21:11
openstackLaunchpad bug 1183656 in OpenStack Object Storage (swift) "object auditors don't finish" [High,Confirmed]21:12
notmynamewhat's going on here?21:12
mattoliverauclayg: I better get concurrent gets going again then.. especially before my life turns up side down :)21:12
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notmynameonovy: I belive you were looking into this bug?21:13
onovyno? :)21:13
claygjoeljwright: wat?  now I *really* better go read that eatherpad (thanks jrichli!)21:13
claygonovy: honesty is the best policy - notmyname can take it21:13
jrichliclayg :p21:13
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notmynamehmm..ok then21:13
notmynameI thought it was either onovy or peterlisak21:14
notmynamebut it seems I misremembered21:14
onovyi think it's related to ionice21:14
onovy"related" :)21:14
notmynamebut the point still stands that it's a bug that needs to be squashed21:14
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notmynameok, so that leaves us with...21:14
notmynamewho can volunteer to work on a patch for this bug this week?21:15
notmynamecschwede: interested?21:15
claygnotmyname: wow you like went right out there for it - baller21:15
cschwedenotmyname: yup, just wanted to raise my hand21:15
notmynamecschwede: awesome, thanks!21:15
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claygcschwede: !!!! how you been doing man!  I think my schedule's been getting later - am I going to see you in bristol!?21:15
cschwedeclayg: :) of course, can’t wait to meeting all of you in Bristol!21:16
notmyname#topic patches -- in process functests with fast-POST21:16
*** openstack changes topic to "patches -- in process functests with fast-POST (Meeting topic: swift)"21:16
notmynameacoles: this is your topic21:16
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notmynamepatch 27408621:17
patchbotnotmyname: - swift - Enable in-process func tests to optionally use fas...21:17
acoleswe discussed this last week - still need another +2 on that ^^21:17
notmynameand patch 27682321:17
patchbotnotmyname: - openstack-infra/project-config - Add job gate-swift-tox-func-in-process-fast-post21:17
acolesannd here's the gate change ^^21:17
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acolesnotmyname: thanks for feeding the links :)21:17
acolesI have been ultra-cautios with the gate change and made the tox-func-... job non-voting21:18
mattoliverauI was going to look at the first one, sorry acoles. Conference had too many good talks.. will look at it today21:18
notmynamemattoliverau: last week you said you'd look at it21:18
acolesmattoliverau: thanks man!21:18
notmynamemattoliverau: ah. thanks :-)21:18
notmyname#topic patches -- rbac21:18
*** openstack changes topic to "patches -- rbac (Meeting topic: swift)"21:18
notmynamepatch 20241121:18
patchbotnotmyname: - swift - Add functional test for access control (RBAC) with...21:18
acolesso nothing *should* fail but we'll let the gate runa few times then go back to voting, and imho we lose no coverage cos the regular func tests are still there21:18
notmynamehere's a quote from last week's meeting21:19
notmyname"21:41:03 <notmyname> ok, so between torgomatic cschwede clayg and kota_, it *should* be either landed or have other patch sets by next week"21:19
clayghrrmm.. patch 274086 has two reviewers - I can think of *one* soltuion21:19
patchbotclayg: - swift - Enable in-process func tests to optionally use fas...21:19
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notmynameso torgomatic cschwede clayg kota_, what's the status of the rbac patch? doesn't look like any activity in gerrit since last week21:19
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torgomaticwelp, there's your status :|21:19
notmynamewell, maybe you've got something local :-)21:20
* notmyname hopes21:20
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torgomaticI can come shrug at your desk if it helps21:20
kota_sorry, I couldn't have a time to look at21:20
kota_will see21:21
cschwedenotmyname: i had a look, but unfortunately didn’t make much progress :/ the list of expected test result is quite long, doesn’t make it easier to read21:21
claygnotmyname: I'm *pretty* sure I have keystone working - but I honestly wasn't intending to look at the rbac tests again - I really am pretty sure if I do I'll want to push up another revision to address some of the stuff acoles already pointed out but couldn't bring himself to demand21:21
notmynamecschwede: thanks21:21
acolesfwiw ho_away 's patch adds a load of time to a test run, BUT less time than patch 277465 removed21:22
patchbotacoles: - swift - Speed up functional testing (MERGED)21:22
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notmynameyeah, we talked about that in tokyo. it's a complicated set of test conditions. IIRC clayg was suggesting spot-checking and pattern matching to review21:22
claygacoles: two steps forward but only one step back sounds like progress!21:22
notmynamecschwede: can I ping you about it at next weeks meeting?21:22
notmyname(this rbac patch)21:23
claygacoles: also I'm not sure how much I care about func test run time?  It's been a long time since I was able to "wait" for a swift test run21:23
cschwedei don’t feel comfortable about - the list of expected returns21:23
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cschwedenotmyname: sure, i’ll have another look at it. worst case is that i add only some comments21:23
notmynameor that could be best case :-)21:23
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acolesclayg: yeah, its beyond 'watch and wait' but not long enough to do much else useful21:24
notmynamego grab a pint at the windchester and wait for the whole test suite to finish running21:25
cschwedei might bother acoles about the patch then ;)21:25
claygcschwede: wait which line?  You just don't like the whole idea of a data driven test matrix - and would prefer explicit behavior based tests with names - or you're ok with exahaustive matrix testing but want the format somewhat different?21:25
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cschwedeclayg: the last; data driven is fine, but the format in this patch feels not familar (yet)21:26
acoleswe did discuss reformatting to something more readable, in Tokyo, IIRC21:27
notmynameis ho_away here?21:27
claygpoor ho_away21:27
acolessomeone asserted that would be easy in emacs ;)21:27
mattoliverauyeah, using dictionaries so the fields are readable would be nice21:27
claygI think maybe he's not clear on exactly what formatting would be most appreciated (I'm not even sure we *know* what format would be ideal)21:28
cschwedehe, true!21:28
claygmattoliverau: acoles: +1 I think that was what folks said21:28
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ho_awayclayg: yeah, exactly :-)21:29
notmynameI'll bet ho_away would be interested in seeing your format bikeshed^W great ideas as a follow on ;-)21:29
notmyname(was that too snarky?)21:29
notmyname(it had a winky face. that makes it ok, right?)21:29
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claygnotmyname: that is an EXCELLENT point21:30
mattoliverauwinky face makes everything ok21:30
claygnotmyname: winky face makes everything ok21:30
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claygmattoliverau: JINX!21:30
acolesso TBH I did not press ho_away too hard on the format because without other reviewers its maybe wasted effort, but it would be nice21:30
* mattoliverau thinks damn, cause he can't talk21:30
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claygmattoliverau: you get so many cool points if you can continue the rest of the meeting by "mimeing" your input21:31
notmynameI sympathize with what cschwede said. the format of the tests isn't familiar yet. not that it's inherently bad21:31
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clayg#X$%^U it - let's merge it and file a bug to clean it up with an example of what we like?21:31
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claygtag it low-hanging-fruit for the faries21:32
claygthey LOVE that mechanical len/pep8/assertEqual crap anyway21:32
cschwedeclayg: yep, that was my idea as well, since there is already one +2 from acoles21:32
claygcschwede: do eeeet!  notmyname is right!21:32
claygcschwede: well... think hard about what format might be better and open the bug too - then DOOOO EEEET21:32
notmynamecool. there's a plan and expected resolution Real Soon Now21:33
notmyname#topic patches -- pyeclib version migration21:33
*** openstack changes topic to "patches -- pyeclib version migration (Meeting topic: swift)"21:33
acolesemacs will save us21:33
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notmynameacoles: thanks for adding this one21:33
ho_awayall: sorry & thanks for your help21:33
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notmynameho_away: thanks for sticking with it for so long!21:34
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notmynameso the original pyeclib plan was this21:34
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notmynameupdate to 1.0.7 because of migration reasons (mostly with -infra reasons), then jump to 1.1.121:35
notmynamewe did the first part21:35
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notmynameand now we're at 1.0.8 and there's an upstream 1.2.021:35
* onovy have simple question: if pyeclib is only for swift, what is reason for using older version than newest?21:35
notmynamethe final step in all of that was to then move the repos into the openstack namespace21:35
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notmynameonovy: IMO, we should go all the way (but the bump to 1.0.8 doesn't hurt anything)21:36
onovyyep. i don't have problem to package 1.2.0 in debian (already done it, not uploaded yet)21:36
onovyand it was simple, so others distro will not have any problems too21:37
claygonovy: i've been fighting liberasure packaging most of the day yesterday?21:37
claygand I think I only got 1.1.021:37
notmynameonovy: ah! you're the one who did the bump to 1.0.8 :-)21:37
onovynotmyname: yes :)21:37
claygoh that's liberasure tho - I don't know yet what pyeclib i'm going to package today21:37
onovyclayg: clayg liberasure 1.1.0 is newest21:37
notmynameclayg: you aren't packaging the latest from VCS? wow.21:38
claygonovy: I thought zigo did all the debian openstack packaging - does he have HELP!?21:38
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notmyname;-)   <--- winky face makes it all ok21:38
claygnotmyname: no no i was - i think - onovy says i'm golden21:38
onovyclayg: yep, i'm doing swift packages21:38
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notmynameclayg: zigo isn't doing it anymore. right onovy?21:38
adisda li ima neko ovdje iz Bosne za razgovor21:38
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adisbilo ko .neka se javi21:38
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onovynotmyname: zigo is working on it too21:39
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onovyadis: a ga la mo ne to vyra?21:39
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notmynameonovy: ah ok21:39
onovynotmyname: os packages are team maintained in debian21:40
notmynamegot it21:40
claygadis: govoriti o openstack hitri ?21:40
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notmynameso let's continue the pyeclib upgrade with 1.2.0. sound reasonable to everyone?21:41
claygnotmyname: so... version "migration" - what was the question/notice exactly?21:41
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claygnotmyname: it has a bigger number - why do we even need to discuss it ;)21:41
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notmynameyeah, that's exactly what I was about to ask21:41
onovy+1 for 1.2.0 version. don't see any cons here21:41
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notmynameacoles: did you have something else specific on this? or just the "what's going on?"21:41
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onovyand what about migration to os-infra?21:42
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notmynameonovy: I don't have anything there except "yup. that's the plan"21:43
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onovyok, let's do it21:43
acoleswell mainly what's going on and when do we move up again? does 1.0.8 have everything required to use the liberasurecode-rs-vand?21:43
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clayg"to" os-infra - or for the package/source/bitbucket21:43
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claygacoles: in my experience 1.0.8 was sufficient21:43
notmynameclayg: in the openstack/* namespace (instead of bitbucket)21:43
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notmynameno I don't think 1.0.8 is sufficient21:44
acolesclayg: k. thanks21:44
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notmynameit still has the liberasurecode bundling21:44
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notmynamethat's why I think we need 1.2.0 (from what I see of the pyeclib changelong)21:44
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claygnotmyname: it has what now?  i think 1.0.8 requires liberasure-dev to install21:44
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claygwhat?  rly?21:44
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onovyexactly in debian pyeclib don't have liberasure bundling, becuase it can be disabled on "configure"21:44
claygwhere is tsg he's the only one that knows how this works21:45
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onovyso pyeclib package need liberasure package, it doesn't work without it21:45
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onovyclayg: i know it too :)21:45
claygonovy: the way that god intended packages to work21:45
notmynamewhich is why the move to openstack/* is the goal. so not only tsg knows of it and can patch it :-)21:45
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onovypyeclib <1.2.0 have option "disable erasure bundling"21:45
onovy*liberasure bundling21:46
onovy1.2.0 don't have liberasure at all21:46
notmynameah ok. option to disable it. and 1.2.0 fully removes it21:46
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claygonovy: wtf is liberasure "bundling" why is that that i don't even?21:46
notmynameonovy: thanks21:46
onovyclayg: it uses liberasure lib from pyeclib repo21:46
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notmynameclayg: that was what we didn't like about the earlier versions (we == anyone doing packaging). the pyeclib was downloading/installing the c lib21:47
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claygnotmyname: not anywhere anyone was packinging it wasn't - everyone worked around it21:47
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acolesok, i admit i am confused and stupid, but without liberasurecode how does liberasurecode-vs-rand work? or is the key word here "bundling"? what am i missing?21:47
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onovyacoles: pyeclib have dependency21:48
onovyit needs liberasure21:48
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onovybut older version had this version "distributed together"21:48
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onovy*this deps21:48
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kota_liberasurecode-rs-rand bundled in liberasurecode21:48
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onovykota_: liberasure-rs-rand is just one EC inside liberasurecode lib21:49
notmyname  <-- 5th slide from the bottom ;-)21:49
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kota_and it expected to be installed via os packaging21:49
kota_os packaging repo21:49
acolesoh, so what notmyname said "the pyeclib was downloading/installing the c lib" <- 1.2.0 stops doing this?21:49
kota_or by hand, in 1.2.021:49
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onovyacoles: yep21:49
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notmynameacoles: correct. and 1.0.7(?)->1.1.1 had an option to disable it21:49
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kota_older pyeclib repo has tar ball in inside.21:50
kota_liberasurecode tar ball21:50
onovyyes, here:
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acolesok thanks everyone. so 1.0.8 brings us liberasurecode_rs_vand, 1.2.0 decouples the install21:51
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onovythis option: --install-liberasurecode=no21:51
notmynamesummary is pyeclib 1.2.0 is better than the earlier versions and that's what we should use in swift21:51
onovynotmyname: +1 :)21:51
notmynameeveryone agree? any more questions on that?21:51
claygonovy: where is that option?21:52
acolesso...why did we not jump to 1.2.0, why step to 1.0.8?21:52
onovyclayg: install --install-layout=deb --install-liberasurecode=no21:52
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onovyacoles: because i wanted to drop jerasure defaults21:52
notmynameacoles: ah, because it was code that was written to solve a different problem. and code written to solv that other thing makes the project better.21:52
onovyacoles: a i done "smallest" step to achieve this21:52
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onovyso, should i make review to bump to 1.2.0? or anyone else wants?21:53
notmynameacoles: basically it comes down to the fact that onovy got the 1.0.8 change into global-requirements.21:53
notmynameonovy: go for it21:53
onovyok, i will do it21:53
acolesnotmyname: ok, i get it :)21:53
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notmynameacoles: I've been trying to apply a "working code that is good enough but maybe not the perfect end solution is better than no code" :-)21:54
notmyname#topic open discussion21:54
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: swift)"21:54
acolesheh, another merge master to feature/crypto on its way then :P21:54
notmynameanything else to discuss in the meeting this week?21:54
notmynameacoles: that should be a regular thing anyway, right?21:54
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onovyunit coverage boost ^^!! :)21:54
notmynamemoar tests!21:54
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onovywaiting ~3 weeks, anyone?21:55
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* notmyname should make patchbot detect full gerrint urls too21:55
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acolesnotmyname: right21:55
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acolestimburke: whats important to land in swiftclient before next release?21:56
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mattoliverauonovy: I'll add them to my list this week21:56
timburkepatch 265417 is some nice cleanup on the retry-partial-downloads work21:56
patchbottimburke: - python-swiftclient - _RetryBody doesn't need to take explicit etag/cont...21:56
onovymattoliverau: thanks21:56
acolestimburke: joeljwright other than "everything" :)21:56
timburkealong the same lines, patch 26925221:56
patchbottimburke: - python-swiftclient - Check responses when retrying bodies21:56
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claygonovy: good to ping on those patches - you don't have to wait for a meeting21:56
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timburkereally want patch 25232821:56
patchbottimburke: - python-swiftclient - Fix debug and info option parsing21:56
acoles^^ oh yeah, must do that21:57
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joeljwrightI've been reading through the outstanding patches today21:57
onovyclayg: ok21:57
timburkepatch 269359 is just stupid21:57
patchbottimburke: - python-swiftclient - Display proper name when failing to create segment...21:57
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timburkeand can't forget acoles's patch 27571921:57
patchbottimburke: - python-swiftclient - Support --os-identity-api-version option21:57
notmynametimburke: so, "all of them"? ;-)21:57
timburkeall low risk, but nothing critical21:58
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onovyand for me this: patch 276280 is must have! :)21:58
patchbotonovy: - swift - Script for checking sanity of manpages21:58
joeljwrighttimburke: agreed21:58
joeljwrightthe only other thing is solving the logging bug before another release21:58
acolestimburke: --debug position was annoying me again today, will try to review asap21:58
joeljwrightor asap21:58
timburkenotmyname: hey, as  long as i curate a little, you won't be *too* overwhelmed :-)21:59
timburkejoeljwright: true, good point21:59
joeljwrightI think I saw a candidate21:59
notmynamefor p in patches_by_author['timburke']: star(p)21:59
joeljwrightbut it's a little confusing as there are 2 bug reports that are very similar21:59
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notmynamewe're out of time for this meeting slot21:59
joeljwrightuntil next time…22:00
notmynamethank you everyone for coming today. it's great to work with you on swift (and swiftclient!)22:00
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timburkepatch 259273 or patch 19488422:00
openstackMeeting ended Wed Feb 10 22:00:22 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)22:00
patchbottimburke: - python-swiftclient - ecnode auth token in swiftclient log message22:00
patchbottimburke: - python-swiftclient - don't log sensitive request and response header va...22:00
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onovynotmyname: and swift-bench you forgot!22:00
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notmynameonovy: ...maybe... ;-)22:00
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