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| yamamoto | hi | 07:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| yamamoto | #startmeeting networking_midonet | 07:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 1 07:01:19 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is yamamoto. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 07:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 07:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking_midonet' | 07:01 |
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| yamamoto | #topic Agenda | 07:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:01 | |
| yamamoto | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NetworkingMidoNet | 07:01 |
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| yamamoto | #topic Announcements | 07:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:01 | |
| yamamoto | i have no announcements | 07:02 |
| yamamoto | #topic Bugs | 07:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:02 | |
| yamamoto | bug deputy for the last week was ryu | 07:02 |
| yamamoto | ryu25: ping | 07:03 |
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| yamamoto | #topic Open Discussion | 07:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:04 | |
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| yamamoto | it seems i'm alone. | 07:05 |
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| yamamoto | i'll take bug deputy for this week. | 07:05 |
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| yamamoto | bye! | 07:06 |
| yamamoto | #endmeeting | 07:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 07:06 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 1 07:06:07 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 07:06 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-03-01-07.01.html | 07:06 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-03-01-07.01.txt | 07:06 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-03-01-07.01.log.html | 07:06 |
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| anteaya | #startmeeting third-party | 08:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 1 08:01:39 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 08:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 08:01 |
| anteaya | hello | 08:01 |
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| lennyb | hi | 08:01 |
| anteaya | sorry I missed last week, that was my fault | 08:02 |
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| anteaya | I was traveling and my schedule was off | 08:02 |
| anteaya | sorry about that | 08:02 |
| anteaya | how are you today lennyb? | 08:02 |
| lennyb | looks like noone was here anyway | 08:02 |
| anteaya | well you were here | 08:02 |
| anteaya | sorry about that, lennyb | 08:02 |
| lennyb | I am fine, thank you. How are you ? | 08:02 |
| anteaya | good thanks | 08:03 |
| anteaya | glad to be home | 08:03 |
| anteaya | have you anything you would like to discuss today? | 08:03 |
| lennyb | looks like it's just 2 of us, and I have nothing interesting to ask or tell...So feel free t o.. | 08:04 |
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| anteaya | :) | 08:04 |
| anteaya | thanks lennyb | 08:04 |
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| anteaya | I'll keep the meeting open for a bit | 08:04 |
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| lennyb | 'see' you next week, anteaya | 08:13 |
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| anteaya | lennyb: see you | 08:16 |
| anteaya | thanks lennyb | 08:16 |
| anteaya | guess I'll close up for now | 08:16 |
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| anteaya | have a lovely day | 08:16 |
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| anteaya | and thanks for being here | 08:16 |
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| anteaya | #endmeeting | 08:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 08:16 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 1 08:16:45 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 08:16 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-03-01-08.01.html | 08:16 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-03-01-08.01.txt | 08:16 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-03-01-08.01.log.html | 08:16 |
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| alex_xu | #startmeeting nova api | 12:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 1 12:00:10 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is alex_xu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 12:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 12:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_api' | 12:00 |
| alex_xu | who is here today? | 12:00 |
| gmann_ | hi | 12:00 |
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| sdague | o/ | 12:00 |
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| alex_xu | today is quite | 12:01 |
| alex_xu | #topic API futures - patches for approved specs | 12:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "API futures - patches for approved specs (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:01 | |
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| jichen | o/ | 12:01 |
| alex_xu | we finish the goal we merge the LM patches \o/ | 12:01 |
| alex_xu | last week | 12:02 |
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| alex_xu | anything people want to bring up today? | 12:02 |
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| alex_xu | sdague: we will freeze the client in Thursday also? | 12:03 |
| sdague | alex_xu: yes, I think so, so probably we should get people to prioritize looking at the microversion lands in the clients | 12:03 |
| sdague | so that we can actually have users have these features on the command line | 12:04 |
| alex_xu | yea, those LM API client patch didn't merge yet | 12:04 |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/281335 | 12:05 |
| alex_xu | there is the first one | 12:05 |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/260383/ | 12:05 |
| alex_xu | there is the last one | 12:05 |
| alex_xu | then we won't have any more api patch landing in Mitaka | 12:06 |
| sdague | right, I'm pretty sure we're done on API patches for Mitaka | 12:06 |
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| alex_xu | sdague: https://review.openstack.org/281143 I changed this to the way you like, but I think it isn't hurry, it still can be merged after freeze | 12:07 |
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| eliqiao | o/ | 12:07 |
| alex_xu | I guess no more question, then let's move on | 12:07 |
| Kevin_Zheng | Sorry to be late, internet connection very bad today in our office | 12:07 |
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| sdague | alex_xu: right, that patch looks good | 12:08 |
| sdague | alex_xu: thanks for handling that | 12:08 |
| gmann_ | sdague: how about https://review.openstack.org/#/c/248662/ | 12:08 |
| alex_xu | sdague: np | 12:08 |
| gmann_ | sdague: as we are deprecating hook but still we should fix this issue? | 12:08 |
| sdague | gmann_: let's come back to that in open discussion | 12:08 |
| gmann_ | sdague: or not so critical | 12:08 |
| gmann_ | sdague: sure | 12:08 |
| alex_xu | #topic Nova Microversion testing in Tempest | 12:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Nova Microversion testing in Tempest (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:09 | |
| alex_xu | gmann_: sdague your turn | 12:09 |
| sdague | I believe we landed the change that gmann_ posted for that | 12:09 |
| gmann_ | sdague: yea | 12:09 |
| sdague | gmann_: where do we stand now? | 12:09 |
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| gmann_ | sdague: alex_xu i have posted other 2 patches to migrate to /lib and support microversion in all clients | 12:10 |
| cdent | o/ sorry I'm late | 12:10 |
| gmann_ | sdague: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/284387/ https://review.openstack.org/#/c/284414/ | 12:10 |
| gmann_ | sdague: after those we can implement any microversion tests | 12:10 |
| gmann_ | sdague: if you can have look into those | 12:10 |
| sdague | gmann_: sounds good | 12:11 |
| gmann_ | sdague: do you link for v2.20 tests patch | 12:12 |
| gmann_ | sdague: i can update that if you like | 12:12 |
| sdague | gmann_: oh, right, that would be great | 12:12 |
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| alex_xu | sounds we are good at here, so let us move on? | 12:13 |
| gmann_ | alex_xu: yea. | 12:14 |
| alex_xu | #topic open | 12:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:14 | |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/248662/ | 12:14 |
| alex_xu | gmann_: sdague ^ we can back to this | 12:14 |
| sdague | right, so there is a mailing list thread about nova.hooks now | 12:15 |
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| sdague | basically, I think we should either be testing this or deprecate it | 12:15 |
| sdague | if the deprecation patch lands, then I'm happy taking the fix without functional testing | 12:15 |
| gmann_ | sdague: +1 for deprecate | 12:15 |
| sdague | because spending a bunch of time functional testing a features we're going to remove in the near future is busy work | 12:15 |
| gmann_ | humm, right | 12:16 |
| alex_xu | yes | 12:16 |
| alex_xu | it is a medium prority bug, so sounds ok, not critical for something | 12:17 |
| alex_xu | at least not critical for this point | 12:17 |
| gmann_ | yea | 12:17 |
| sdague | gmann_: I updated my review comment | 12:17 |
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| gmann_ | sdague: i see. Thanks | 12:18 |
| sdague | so there were a couple of other interesting API bits that cropped up | 12:19 |
| sdague | have people noticed the regression tests in tree? | 12:19 |
| jichen | yeah | 12:20 |
| alex_xu | sdague: no, do you have link? | 12:20 |
| sdague | https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/10da208f02fee532171d1d9e4667d0b71c455b8a/nova/tests/functional/regressions/README.rst#L13 | 12:20 |
| sdague | I started building a little mini framework for building a functional test for a bug to verify behavior before a fix, and after | 12:20 |
| sdague | it is most applicable to API bugs | 12:21 |
| sdague | or, anythign you don't need actual libvirt for | 12:21 |
| sdague | https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/10da208f02fee532171d1d9e4667d0b71c455b8a/nova/tests/functional/regressions/test_bug_1522536.py | 12:21 |
| gmann_ | sdague: oh, that's very nice | 12:21 |
| sdague | anyway, I found it easier to think about some of the api bugs by actually building the reproduce in tree, then fixing the code for them | 12:22 |
| alex_xu | sdague: is there clear rule which kind of bug need add that regssion test? | 12:22 |
| gmann_ | sdague: it is written that, those can removed later if needed but should not we keep those as normal tests? | 12:22 |
| sdague | gmann_: honestly, I figured we'd keep them unless they got in the way | 12:22 |
| sdague | alex_xu: I think any bug is fine. We're not going to make this a requirement of any bug | 12:23 |
| sdague | but if you want to do that, it's a good way to go | 12:23 |
| gmann_ | sdague: and keep moving those to functional tests if suitable? | 12:23 |
| sdague | gmann_: I don't know, I think I'm fine if they are just in this directory | 12:23 |
| gmann_ | ok | 12:23 |
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| sdague | this is not about covering every possible edge case, it's about covering issues that come up often enough that people bothered to report bugs on them | 12:24 |
| gmann_ | sdague: those will run as functional tests gate job right | 12:24 |
| sdague | gmann_: yes | 12:24 |
| gmann_ | ok | 12:24 |
| sdague | alex_xu: I'm actually surprised your patch is passing this - https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/10da208f02fee532171d1d9e4667d0b71c455b8a/nova/tests/functional/regressions/test_bug_1541691.py | 12:25 |
| sdague | we should figure out what's happening there | 12:25 |
| alex_xu | sdague: emm...that is interesting, I will take a look it | 12:25 |
| sdague | we should just look at the test run in detail after the meeting | 12:25 |
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| alex_xu | sdague: ok, cool | 12:26 |
| sdague | the other thing of note is the case sensitivity issues on metadata | 12:26 |
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| sdague | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-February/087404.html | 12:26 |
| sdague | I think we've resolved that metadata keys are just going to be non case sensitive | 12:27 |
| sdague | because of mysql | 12:27 |
| sdague | but that means some python code to deal with it | 12:27 |
| cdent | it is just keys that's the issue, not values? | 12:27 |
| sdague | just keys | 12:27 |
| cdent | then yeah, that seems reasonable | 12:27 |
| sdague | because of the way that lookups / deletes are processed | 12:27 |
| sdague | that has some api implications, and I guess the real question is should we be enforcing lower case in the jsonschema for these | 12:28 |
| sdague | because the current behavior is all wonky | 12:29 |
| sdague | although, I think, largely synthetic. They look like the kind of bugs a qa team finds when they are poking at the world. I haven't seen a bug that looks like an actual field issue yet. | 12:29 |
| sdague | anyway, those were my API related things | 12:30 |
| alex_xu | yes, I didn't think any people depend on that also | 12:30 |
| gmann_ | humm, yea | 12:30 |
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| alex_xu | it is ok for enforcing lower case in the jsonschema | 12:30 |
| sdague | right, I don't know how much people might be setting upper case things today | 12:31 |
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| gmann_ | but will that be ok for DB support case sensitive keys? | 12:31 |
| sdague | gmann_: it won't break there | 12:31 |
| * gmann_ still need to read full mail | 12:31 | |
| gmann_ | sdague: but json schema will block upper case right | 12:32 |
| sdague | oh, right, so the issue is if we are going to fully enforce at json schema, then we'll also probably need a data migration to force all the keys to lower in the db | 12:32 |
| sdague | gmann_: right | 12:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | alex_xu: sdague: just to confirm on python-novaclient, we have to make the final release for Mitaka sometime before the end of Thursday, as I understand it | 12:32 |
| sdague | I think something like that probably needs an ops email, just to figure out if anyone is using upper case | 12:32 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: yep | 12:32 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: thanks, got it | 12:32 |
| gmann_ | sdague: yea | 12:32 |
| johnthetubaguy | not sure an Ops email helps though, isn't this an end user facing API? | 12:33 |
| alex_xu | sdague: is it ok just using a python code to convert the data from the db, then needn't data migration? | 12:33 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: and I think any API team focus should be on landing microversions in the client to support these new LM features | 12:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: +1 | 12:33 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: well, the first one is aggregate metadata | 12:33 |
| sdague | that's not user facing | 12:33 |
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| johnthetubaguy | ah, OK, true, I was thinking about server metadata | 12:33 |
| sdague | server metadata is also an issue | 12:33 |
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| sdague | and... I agree, that's more complicated | 12:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | I was thinking we should fix server metadata, and make the others match | 12:34 |
| sdague | ok, well aggregate metadata was the one we were working on first | 12:34 |
| sdague | mostly because if we get push back on the fix once people deploy it, it's easier to unwind | 12:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, yeah, thats true | 12:35 |
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| johnthetubaguy | any mess up there, is less impacting | 12:35 |
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| * eliqiao is still on line ? | 12:37 | |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: now that you are back up, the nova.hooks deprecation patch is updated | 12:37 |
| sdague | I also looked through the thread, and am skeptical about the usefulness of taking this to the ops list, because I have no idea what we'd do with the feedback | 12:38 |
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| sdague | as I don't think anyone has said that crytalizing the current interface is a good idea | 12:38 |
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| sdague | ok, anything else today? | 12:40 |
| sdague | we seem to have stalled out | 12:40 |
| eliqiao | yes | 12:40 |
| eliqiao | I got one bug. | 12:40 |
| sdague | eliqiao: ok, cool | 12:40 |
| eliqiao | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1536513 | 12:40 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1536513 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "os-getConsoleOutput fail with 500" [Medium,Confirmed] - Assigned to Eli Qiao (taget-9) | 12:40 |
| eliqiao | The thing is, we don't handler that exception in REST API layer. | 12:41 |
| sdague | yeh, that seems like a thing we should fix | 12:41 |
| eliqiao | And neither do compute api layer. | 12:41 |
| sdague | also, I think it should be a 404 not a 400 | 12:41 |
| sdague | because it's a console doesn't exist for that guest, right? | 12:41 |
| alex_xu | I think we should check more detail, ensure the virt driver raise a useful exception | 12:41 |
| eliqiao | sdague: not all drivers raise same exception for example https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/virt/hyperv/vmops.py#L667 | 12:42 |
| eliqiao | sdague: for others, they raise NovaException. | 12:42 |
| sdague | eliqiao: ok, I would suggest making a standard exception for that | 12:42 |
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| sdague | and getting all the virt drivers use that | 12:42 |
| cdent | drivers should cast to unified exception themselves and reraise yeah? | 12:42 |
| sdague | maybe a couple, depending on the failure modes | 12:42 |
| alex_xu | sdague: sometime people just raise NovaException for unexpected error, and we should return 500 for unexpected error? | 12:43 |
| sdague | cdent: right, some kind of detail that can be translated at the top layer | 12:43 |
| sdague | alex_xu: I think that's probably ok in general | 12:43 |
| eliqiao | yeah, I think we need to deep into driver case by case. | 12:43 |
| sdague | as we see these issues, we should try to make them more defined behavior | 12:43 |
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| eliqiao | sdague: I am think that in compute api layer(or compute manager) catch exception then do a reraise? | 12:44 |
| alex_xu | sdague: ok, just afriad that will hide some bug | 12:44 |
| sdague | alex_xu: a 500 error is always a bug | 12:45 |
| sdague | we even tell people to report them all | 12:45 |
| eliqiao | hmm... yeah, we do have that information to remine them to report bug... | 12:45 |
| alex_xu | sdague: so for RPC timeout, should we catch them? | 12:45 |
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| sdague | alex_xu: was that the root issue here? and RPC timeout? | 12:45 |
| eliqiao | but somthime it's the driver itself's issue not of nova... | 12:45 |
| sdague | this is my first look at this bug | 12:45 |
| alex_xu | sdague: maybe timeout just for huge load | 12:46 |
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| sdague | ok, what do you believe the root issue is here? | 12:46 |
| sdague | maybe we can work backwards from there, because I think I've gotten myself turned around | 12:46 |
| eliqiao | sdague: alex_xu or other folks, can you help to leave some comments on that bug. | 12:47 |
| alex_xu | sdague: ok | 12:47 |
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| sdague | eliqiao: sure, yeh, lets just leave comments on the bug | 12:47 |
| eliqiao | sdague: thx. | 12:47 |
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| jichen | https://github.com/openstack/api-wg/blob/master/guidelines/http.rst, API wg has some comments on the MessageQueueTimeout | 12:47 |
| jichen | seems in their guideline 500 is acceptable if timeout | 12:48 |
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| sdague | jichen: I think in some cases that's fine | 12:49 |
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| jichen | sdague: ok | 12:49 |
| jichen | I got one issue if eli's is done | 12:49 |
| sdague | 5xx is really supposed to mean "your servers are broken / breaking" | 12:49 |
| jichen | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/276144/ | 12:49 |
| sdague | hitting rpc timeouts seems to be in that camp | 12:49 |
| jichen | yeah | 12:49 |
| alex_xu | sdague: yea, that is what i'm thinking, some exception raise because server broken | 12:50 |
| sdague | jichen: what does neutron return in these cases? | 12:50 |
| jichen | my question is whether we need microversion if change from 503 to 409 , our microversion document didn't mention it's aceeptable to do this without microversion | 12:51 |
| eliqiao | alex_xu: does server mean nova? | 12:51 |
| gmann_ | jichen: not needed in v2.1? | 12:51 |
| eliqiao | alex_xu: what if lowlevel broken? | 12:51 |
| alex_xu | eliqiao: yeah, or the component of nova | 12:51 |
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| sdague | jichen: I think we ended up with not needed when downgrading a 500 error | 12:51 |
| jichen | gmann_ : I changed v2.1 code | 12:51 |
| jichen | sdague: you mean 5xx error? | 12:52 |
| sdague | yes | 12:52 |
| jichen | ok | 12:52 |
| sdague | I can comment back on it | 12:52 |
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| sdague | I was already +2 on it | 12:52 |
| sdague | ok, anything else? | 12:52 |
| jichen | I don't have chance to try neutron, will try and update it in the patch | 12:52 |
| jichen | also, I will write a follow up to change the microversion doc | 12:52 |
| johnthetubaguy | I have a feeling we said no bump if its an existing error message, but yeah, removing a 500 seems like another case we shouldn't have to bump | 12:53 |
| johnthetubaguy | we wouldn't want to leave the 5xx error in the old API versions, thats the key bit | 12:53 |
| cdent | johnthetubaguy++ | 12:54 |
| jichen | +1 | 12:54 |
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| gmann_ | i too +1 on not version bump for 500 fix, but we should update doc too | 12:54 |
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| jichen | yeah | 12:55 |
| alex_xu | +1 | 12:55 |
| eliqiao | +1 | 12:55 |
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| alex_xu | I remember our devref said that | 12:55 |
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| eliqiao | yeah, it's bug fixing, so no bump | 12:56 |
| alex_xu | ok, anyway, no more from me | 12:56 |
| johnthetubaguy | " Fixing a bug so that a 400+ code is returned rather than a 500 does not require a microversion change." | 12:56 |
| johnthetubaguy | http://docs.openstack.org/developer/nova/api_microversion_dev.html | 12:56 |
| alex_xu | johnthetubaguy: cool, thanks | 12:56 |
| sdague | ok, anything else? | 12:57 |
| alex_xu | nothing from me | 12:57 |
| eliqiao | not from my side. | 12:57 |
| alex_xu | 3... | 12:57 |
| alex_xu | 2.. | 12:57 |
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| alex_xu | 1. | 12:57 |
| alex_xu | thanks all! | 12:57 |
| eliqiao | bye | 12:57 |
| alex_xu | #endmeeting | 12:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 12:57 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 1 12:57:54 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 12:57 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2016/nova_api.2016-03-01-12.00.html | 12:57 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2016/nova_api.2016-03-01-12.00.txt | 12:57 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2016/nova_api.2016-03-01-12.00.log.html | 12:57 |
| gmann_ | Thanks all | 12:57 |
| jichen | thanks ! | 12:58 |
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| Qiming | #startmeeting senlin | 13:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 1 13:02:25 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'senlin' | 13:02 |
| Qiming | sorry guys, a little bit late again | 13:02 |
| yanyanhu | hi | 13:02 |
| zzxwill | Hello. It's fine. | 13:02 |
| haiwei | hi | 13:03 |
| Qiming | welcome, zzxwill | 13:03 |
| Qiming | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda | 13:03 |
| Qiming | please review agenda and see if you have things to add | 13:03 |
| Qiming | #topic Austin summit planning | 13:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Austin summit planning (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:03 | |
| yanyanhu | hi, Qiming, the etherpad link for summit is not added in agenda | 13:03 |
| Qiming | okay, pls help | 13:04 |
| yanyanhu | just can remeber the name | 13:04 |
| yanyanhu | ... | 13:04 |
| lixinhui | hi | 13:04 |
| Qiming | newton-senlin-sessions | 13:04 |
| yanyanhu | tried several different ones, all failed... | 13:04 |
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| Qiming | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-senlin-sessions | 13:04 |
| yanyanhu | ah, missed the last 's' | 13:04 |
| Qiming | following previous convention on naming the etherpad | 13:05 |
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| Qiming | as the summit is drawing near, we need to start brainstorm topics for discussion | 13:05 |
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| Qiming | the above link is an etherpad for proposals | 13:06 |
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| Qiming | we have a lot of things to discuss, especially those items from TODO.rst and FEATURES.rst | 13:07 |
| yanyanhu | yes | 13:07 |
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| Qiming | for example, the node-create/delete actions handling could be a discussion topic | 13:07 |
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| Qiming | I'm not sure we will figure that out by mitaka release | 13:08 |
| haiwei | so this time would be how long for senlin design summit? | 13:08 |
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| Qiming | Fishbow slots (Wed-Thu) | 13:08 |
| Qiming | Workroom slots (Tue-Thu) | 13:08 |
| Qiming | Contributors meetup (Fri) | 13:09 |
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| yanyanhu | just as usual | 13:09 |
| Qiming | it is up to the team (you and me) to figure out how many sessions do we need | 13:09 |
| Qiming | if possible, I'm getting back to ttx after we have a rough estimation | 13:10 |
| haiwei | yes | 13:10 |
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| Qiming | in the past, for example, some projects have 2+12+2 | 13:10 |
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| Qiming | some projects have 1+0+0 | 13:10 |
| Qiming | Some projects have 12+0+2 | 13:11 |
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| Qiming | just focus on the topics you want to discuss | 13:11 |
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| yanyanhu | just added two topics | 13:12 |
| Qiming | #action Everyone please input your proposals by end of Thursday (Feb. 3) | 13:12 |
| yanyanhu | will try to add more | 13:12 |
| Qiming | does that action item makes sense to everyone? | 13:12 |
| yanyanhu | I believe there will be many items we want to talk f2f :) | 13:13 |
| yanyanhu | sure | 13:13 |
| yanyanhu | totally makes sense to me | 13:13 |
| Qiming | On Friday, we need to do a consolidation | 13:13 |
| haiwei | is it necessary to send a mail? | 13:13 |
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| Qiming | just a side note | 13:13 |
| yanyanhu | ok, so we have 2 days for input | 13:13 |
| Qiming | once we have a schedule, we can send an email to the dev list | 13:14 |
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| Qiming | there will be someone collecting inputs from all projects and work out a summary like this: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Design_Summit/Mitaka/Etherpads | 13:14 |
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| Qiming | please mark your session's type: fishbowl or working | 13:15 |
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| yanyanhu | ok | 13:15 |
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| Qiming | let's move on | 13:16 |
| Qiming | #topic Mitaka release schedule | 13:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Mitaka release schedule (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:16 | |
| Qiming | #link http://releases.openstack.org/mitaka/schedule.html | 13:16 |
| Qiming | this week is the m-3 milestone | 13:16 |
| Qiming | ... time flies | 13:16 |
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| Qiming | it is a week for many things: feature freeze, requirements freeze, soft string freeze, final release of client libs | 13:17 |
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| zzxwill | As for soft StringFreeze, does it affect our project? | 13:18 |
| Qiming | we'll create a b3 tag this week | 13:18 |
| Qiming | that one is just a few commands | 13:18 |
| Qiming | but there are other things where helps are needed | 13:18 |
| Qiming | yes, zzxwill | 13:18 |
| Qiming | just talked to Daisy today | 13:18 |
| yanyanhu | one thing that is still unclear is when should we rework our driver for sdk release 0.8.0 | 13:19 |
| Qiming | if we have a focal for i18n, they can help try put senlin translation into their agenda | 13:19 |
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| Qiming | I'm seeing the translation to Japanese for senlin-dashboard is bumping back | 13:19 |
| Qiming | that one is something I should have taken care of | 13:20 |
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| yanyanhu | it will really cost some time to finish this job | 13:20 |
| Qiming | I have pushed sdk team to cut a version | 13:20 |
| zzxwill | I am a translator for i18n, I wonder whether I can overtake the role. But I still have so many things to learn. | 13:20 |
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| Qiming | however, 0.8.0 is not ideal | 13:20 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, understand | 13:20 |
| Qiming | it still misses some patches | 13:20 |
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| yanyanhu | oh, right, the path_arg patch is still hang there | 13:20 |
| Qiming | not sure if we should push them to release a 0.8.1 | 13:20 |
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| briancurtin | Qiming: if you have some that you want done i can easily do a 0.8.1 (path_arg is a part of a big refactoring, “path args” are going away) | 13:21 |
| Qiming | another thing is the version bump at global requirements got blocked again and again, for no good reason | 13:21 |
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| Qiming | hello, briancurtin, that would be REALLY REALLY helpful | 13:21 |
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| Qiming | there is a workaround for that, briancurtin | 13:22 |
| yanyanhu | hi, briancurtin, I noticed Terry abandoned his patches about path_args, does that mean this problem has been resolved? | 13:22 |
| briancurtin | Qiming: i don’t want to interrupt your meeting (my irc client just highlights on SDK) so if you want to send me some of the reviews you would need for a 0.8.1 | 13:22 |
| Qiming | we only need a patch for neutron lb member I think | 13:22 |
| Qiming | yanyanhu, pls help work we brian and see if it makes sense | 13:23 |
| briancurtin | yanyanhu: no it’s very much still a problem, but i am refactoring the Resource class to eliminate it. the old ways were not enough | 13:23 |
| Qiming | s/we/with | 13:23 |
| yanyanhu | understand | 13:23 |
| Qiming | the good thing is SDK is really great, it helps us eliminate all dependencies to xxxclients | 13:23 |
| briancurtin | yanyanhu: it’s a pretty big change to the insides of the SDK, but the proxy interface so far is the same so the changes user experience should not be that much | 13:23 |
| Qiming | final release for senlinclient | 13:24 |
| Qiming | that is very possible now | 13:24 |
| yanyanhu | I see. thank you so much, briancurtin. | 13:24 |
| Qiming | thanks to di xiaoli, we have all OSC plugin patches landed | 13:25 |
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| Qiming | now you can do a 'openstack cluster list' for example | 13:25 |
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| Qiming | as for string freeze, need to do an examination if there are things need fixes | 13:25 |
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| Qiming | starting from m-3 release, we should be really careful about introducing new strings | 13:26 |
| yanyanhu | cool | 13:26 |
| Qiming | moving on | 13:26 |
| Qiming | #topic Mitaka work items review | 13:26 |
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| Qiming | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-mitaka-workitems | 13:27 |
| Qiming | heat resource type support, it is done | 13:27 |
| Qiming | thanks for the great effort fro ethan | 13:27 |
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| yanyanhu | so all resources are available now? | 13:27 |
| Qiming | yes, all resources we planned to expose via Heat resource types | 13:28 |
| yanyanhu | great | 13:28 |
| Qiming | that blueprint has been marked 'completed' | 13:28 |
| yanyanhu | may the next step is some example template | 13:28 |
| yanyanhu | ok | 13:28 |
| Qiming | testing side | 13:28 |
| yanyanhu | s/may/maybe | 13:28 |
| Qiming | yep, I think ethan has already started some work | 13:29 |
| Qiming | that could be our focus in coming weeks | 13:29 |
| Qiming | just curious if something new to share, yanyanhu ? | 13:30 |
| yanyanhu | functional test for cluster update is in progress now. Have done some preparation by reworking test driver. | 13:30 |
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| yanyanhu | yes, made some progress | 13:30 |
| yanyanhu | hope can propose the first patch tomorrow | 13:30 |
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| yanyanhu | for test of cluster update with flavor being changed | 13:30 |
| Qiming | okay, we may need to start some stress testing next week | 13:30 |
| Qiming | cool | 13:30 |
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| Qiming | next, health management | 13:31 |
| yanyanhu | actually, I just added stree test topic into etherpad | 13:31 |
| Qiming | xinhui has helped added db table and an initial version | 13:31 |
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| Qiming | still polishing it | 13:31 |
| lixinhui | Yes, Qiming | 13:31 |
| yanyanhu | I think we may need more discussion about it, from both developer and user point of view | 13:32 |
| Qiming | hopefully, we can get it stable by RC1 | 13:32 |
| lixinhui | I will keep testing it and polish it | 13:32 |
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| Qiming | not sure we can finish the LB based health detection | 13:32 |
| lixinhui | yanyanhu, agree to you | 13:32 |
| yanyanhu | healthmonitor supported has added for lb policy | 13:32 |
| lixinhui | Alarm has been created successsfully based on status change | 13:33 |
| yanyanhu | patch is under review. It works in my env. | 13:33 |
| lixinhui | yanyanhu, I will test it also | 13:33 |
| yanyanhu | but still need more tests | 13:33 |
| Qiming | omg, you all unbelievable | 13:33 |
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| yanyanhu | lixinhui, thanks :) | 13:33 |
| lixinhui | just the bug is under resovling | 13:33 |
| lixinhui | yanyanhu :) you work so quicly! | 13:34 |
| Qiming | somehow, somewhere, we need to document this | 13:34 |
| Qiming | and we should warn users about the limitations of this naive solution | 13:34 |
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| Qiming | it is a starting point | 13:34 |
| yanyanhu | lixinhui, my pleasure :) | 13:35 |
| lixinhui | :) | 13:35 |
| yanyanhu | try my best to clean the obstacle before you guys | 13:35 |
| lixinhui | okay, Qiming | 13:35 |
| Qiming | more advanced health monitoring is out of senlin's scope, we do provide some entry level support etc ... | 13:35 |
| Qiming | policy documentation, have to resume that thread next week | 13:35 |
| Qiming | this week I'll focus on the jobs mandated by release schedule | 13:36 |
| Qiming | so far have documented deletion policy and scaling policy | 13:36 |
| Qiming | revising the affinity is almost done, then I'll document it as well | 13:36 |
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| Qiming | when lb policy is finalized, we document it later | 13:36 |
| lixinhui | super start, yanyanhu | 13:36 |
| lixinhui | s/start/star | 13:37 |
| Qiming | profile | 13:37 |
| lixinhui | Qiming is machine again | 13:37 |
| lixinhui | ... | 13:37 |
| Qiming | maybe should move disk update to TODO? | 13:37 |
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| yanyanhu | maybe we should move the item of nova disk updating support back to TODO list | 13:38 |
| Qiming | call me Machinagain | 13:38 |
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| yanyanhu | yes, have the same feeling | 13:38 |
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| lixinhui | :) | 13:38 |
| Qiming | yup, don't drop the ball at least | 13:38 |
| Qiming | I'll keep the NODE_CREATE/DELETE item there, until I'm sure I cannot finish it | 13:38 |
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| yanyanhu | ok | 13:39 |
| Qiming | lock breaker, that one has been finished? | 13:39 |
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| yanyanhu | guess so | 13:39 |
| Qiming | yanyanhu, are you seeing the error logs again? | 13:39 |
| yanyanhu | the db warning happened during engine starts has gone | 13:40 |
| yanyanhu | nope | 13:40 |
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| yanyanhu | ahh, sorry, that's another problem | 13:40 |
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| yanyanhu | but I really didn't see error logs again | 13:40 |
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| Qiming | okay, killing that item | 13:41 |
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| Qiming | ok | 13:41 |
| Qiming | added a job for you | 13:41 |
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| Qiming | you are welcome, yanyanhu | 13:41 |
| Qiming | haiwei, still there? | 13:41 |
| yanyanhu | thanks :) | 13:41 |
| haiwei | yes | 13:42 |
| Qiming | do we have any progress on container support? | 13:42 |
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| Qiming | if we need more time to come up with a prototype, we can add a design summit session for this | 13:43 |
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| Qiming | it can be a fishbowl session | 13:43 |
| haiwei | not really, I was learning Magnum, and try to figure out a good solution for container cluster | 13:43 |
| Qiming | okay | 13:43 |
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| Qiming | just please keep the team posted when you have some ideas | 13:43 |
| haiwei | currently there is not a clear image of container cluster for me | 13:44 |
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| Qiming | oh, missed some items | 13:44 |
| Qiming | haiwei, that is something interesting | 13:44 |
| yanyanhu | haiwei, any possible the bay can be built based on senlin cluster? | 13:44 |
| haiwei | ok, I will try to update the spec file | 13:44 |
| yanyanhu | :) | 13:44 |
| Qiming | my only big concern is that we still need to involve a global scheduler for placing containers | 13:45 |
| Qiming | other than that, bringing up container cluster over senlin is a piece of cake | 13:45 |
| haiwei | I think the problem we need to think about first is shall Senlin use Magnum or not for our container solution | 13:45 |
| Qiming | haiwei, I would think from the other direction | 13:45 |
| haiwei | I think it depends on what kind of container service senlin will provide | 13:46 |
| Qiming | I think Magnum should use senlin to create clusters | 13:46 |
| Qiming | this topic has been brought up several times before | 13:46 |
| yanyanhu | haiwei, I think magnum itself doesn't provide container management interfaces? | 13:46 |
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| haiwei | I think it does, yanyanhu | 13:47 |
| yanyanhu | ohh | 13:47 |
| Qiming | the Magnum team was always saying no, because 'senlin is a stackforge project', 'senlin is not an official project' ... 'we don't want dependency to non-official services ...' | 13:47 |
| haiwei | from magnum client, you can all create a container by 'magnum container-create' | 13:47 |
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| yanyanhu | so we can treat it as a container management service just as k8s or mesos? | 13:47 |
| haiwei | but we need a container cluster | 13:47 |
| Qiming | haiwei, why I'm doing that? | 13:47 |
| Qiming | why don't we call docker api directly? | 13:48 |
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| Qiming | any benefits users will get? | 13:48 |
| haiwei | that is a solution, but you need to handle the problems like scheduling, network and so on | 13:48 |
| Qiming | suppose we are going down this path | 13:48 |
| Qiming | does magnum do scheduling? | 13:49 |
| haiwei | I am afraid senlin will have to do some jobs which has already done by other projects | 13:49 |
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| Qiming | yes, senlin's scope is always limited | 13:49 |
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| haiwei | no, Magnum uses docker swarm things | 13:49 |
| Qiming | then why we need magnum in the middle? | 13:49 |
| haiwei | as I said, we should think about the use case first, what kind of container cluster senlin will provide | 13:50 |
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| Qiming | I'm open to any use case | 13:50 |
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| Qiming | to any benefits we or the users can get by having senlin to invoke magnum | 13:50 |
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| Qiming | if I'm a user, I don't care there is a cluster at all | 13:51 |
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| Qiming | the thing I care is, I have a docker image, please help me deploy it to your cloud | 13:51 |
| haiwei | yes, we should make user feel by using Senlin they can manage container cluster better, or else, they will use Magnum or other things | 13:51 |
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| Qiming | I want the service capable of handling autoscaling, load-balancing, high-avaialbility etc. all those non-functional requirements | 13:52 |
| Qiming | haiwei, I don't think so | 13:52 |
| Qiming | users really don't care the name of your project | 13:53 |
| lixinhui | agree to Qiming on this point | 13:53 |
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| Qiming | it is not the glue layer that matters to users | 13:54 |
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| haiwei | yes, I am not focusing on using which project, but on what kind of service | 13:54 |
| Qiming | it is the eventual user experience, service level you provide to users that matters | 13:54 |
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| Qiming | how about a service that can deploy and manage container clusters, while capable of handling autoscaling, load-balancing, high-avaialbility | 13:55 |
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| haiwei | that is great | 13:55 |
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| Qiming | how far are we from that goal? | 13:55 |
| Qiming | what are the specific feature gaps we need to fill? | 13:56 |
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| haiwei | I can't give a clear answer now | 13:56 |
| Qiming | for each feature missed, are there any existing OS-style service we can leverage so we can focus on the end goal? | 13:56 |
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| Qiming | that is something we need to think about | 13:57 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, I think the problem is which layer we want to be located | 13:57 |
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| Qiming | that is a good question | 13:57 |
| lixinhui | yanyanhu | 13:57 |
| yanyanhu | whether it's just a IaaS cluster management service | 13:57 |
| yanyanhu | or more | 13:57 |
| lixinhui | I think that does not matter | 13:58 |
| Qiming | yanyanhu, to be honest, I don't care | 13:58 |
| yanyanhu | yes, but that will decide the interface you expose | 13:58 |
| Qiming | I don't think any users care at all | 13:58 |
| lixinhui | if senlin can provide XXXXX service for container | 13:58 |
| yanyanhu | e.g. app/service-oriented | 13:58 |
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| lixinhui | that will be good | 13:58 |
| yanyanhu | or just bare container management | 13:58 |
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| yanyanhu | yes, but they are two different things | 13:59 |
| Qiming | bare container management is the corner stone | 13:59 |
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| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes, I also think so | 13:59 |
| Qiming | the upper layer interface is what users see | 13:59 |
| Qiming | as a service, you do all the labor | 13:59 |
| yanyanhu | right | 13:59 |
| Qiming | that is why people call you a service | 13:59 |
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| yanyanhu | so we should be a service on PaaS layer | 14:00 |
| Qiming | drawing a hard line between iaas and paas won't help solve the problem | 14:00 |
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| yanyanhu | if we want to provide that kind of support | 14:00 |
| Qiming | sorry, time's up | 14:00 |
| Qiming | back to senlin channel pls | 14:00 |
| yanyanhu | ok | 14:00 |
| Qiming | #endmeeting | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 1 14:00:39 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-03-01-13.02.html | 14:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-03-01-13.02.txt | 14:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-03-01-13.02.log.html | 14:00 |
| zzxwill | Thanks. | 14:00 |
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| ihrachys | #startmeeting networking | 14:01 |
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| xgerman | o/ | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 1 14:01:29 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ihrachys. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| mestery | o/ | 14:01 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| amuller | hiho | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:01 | |
| amotoki | o/ | 14:01 |
| annp | Hi | 14:01 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking' | 14:01 |
| ajo | o/ :) | 14:01 |
| johnsom | o/ | 14:01 |
| scheuran | o/ | 14:01 |
| vikram_ | hi | 14:01 |
| jschwarz | \o/ | 14:01 |
| HenryG | o/ | 14:01 |
| obondarev | hi | 14:01 |
| ihrachys | hello my friends ;) | 14:01 |
| haleyb | hi | 14:01 |
| rossella_s | hi all | 14:01 |
| dasm | o/ | 14:01 |
| * amuller salutes supreme commander chair | 14:01 | |
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| ihrachys | we'll try to have it short today since everyone is deep into mitaka3 pieces ;) | 14:02 |
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| Sam-I-Am | moo. | 14:02 |
| salv-orlando | aloha | 14:02 |
| hichihara | hi | 14:02 |
| ihrachys | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings Agenda | 14:02 |
| * ajo unburies head from code | 14:02 | |
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| ihrachys | #topic Announcements | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:02 | |
| ihrachys | ok, first thing first, we are approaching Mitaka 3 cut-off day | 14:02 |
| ihrachys | if you wonder when it happens for neutron... it's some time this week | 14:03 |
| mhickey | Hello | 14:03 |
| ihrachys | no exact day known so far | 14:03 |
| mestery | I just pushedt he patch | 14:03 |
| mestery | OR am pushing | 14:03 |
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| mestery | So it happens today or tomorrow | 14:03 |
| ihrachys | our glorious PTL will make the final judgement | 14:03 |
| mhickey | mestery: hurry! :) | 14:03 |
| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/286609 | 14:03 |
| ihrachys | right, it usually happens some time around Wed, and probably this time we'll stick to the tradition | 14:03 |
| ajo | please wed ;) | 14:04 |
| mestery | I see no reason we wouldn't ;) | 14:04 |
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| ihrachys | though we may accommodate for a bit if there are patches in flight that may be better getting in before the cut-off | 14:04 |
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| garyk | hi | 14:04 |
| reedip__ | so its Wednesday UTC ? | 14:04 |
| ihrachys | so long story short, you are short on time, so push harder if you want something in | 14:04 |
| * Sam-I-Am chants mtu | 14:04 | |
| ihrachys | another thing to note is we not only release neutron server packages (neutron + *aas) but also the client | 14:05 |
| ihrachys | probably this week | 14:05 |
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| amotoki | 4.1.0 is preparing https://review.openstack.org/#/c/286585/ | 14:05 |
| ihrachys | so if you have pieces in the client for features landed in server side, better hurry | 14:05 |
| amotoki | just waiting armando. | 14:05 |
| ihrachys | right. our glorious PTL will do the final call here too. :) | 14:06 |
| amotoki | perhaps 4.1.0 will be shipped soon and if needed we will release 4.2.0 too | 14:06 |
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| amotoki | armax and mestery will take care of them :) | 14:06 |
| ihrachys | that's fair. client patches are usually more safe-ish than server side | 14:06 |
| mestery | amotoki: Some of the changes post 4.1.0 look like we may need to bump the version again, so yes, a 4.2.0 would be the one | 14:07 |
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| ihrachys | and the final announcement is... | 14:07 |
| amotoki | yeah. as far as i see, it is backward-compat. | 14:07 |
| ihrachys | as you all probably know, a lot of team members were gathering in Minnesota wilderness the previous week for a midcycle sprint | 14:07 |
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| ihrachys | we have Armando report from the event on the ML: | 14:08 |
| ihrachys | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-February/087693.html | 14:08 |
| ihrachys | please make yourself aware of that, and reply if you have questions | 14:08 |
| ihrachys | thanks everyone who got there and made progress | 14:08 |
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| garyk | why was it not in europe? :) | 14:08 |
| amotoki | it seems very productive :) | 14:08 |
| mestery | garyk: The mid-cycle? | 14:09 |
| ihrachys | garyk: next time let's bug our PTL to get it somewhere in Europe ;) | 14:09 |
| garyk | mestery: yes :) | 14:09 |
| mestery | garyk: We were not even going to have a mid-cycle, but dougwig and armax decided at the last minute to go ahead with it | 14:09 |
| mestery | So I scrambled to find a location on very short notice | 14:09 |
| mestery | That's why :) | 14:10 |
| mhickey | ihrachys: Lets see how Brno goes! :) | 14:10 |
| ihrachys | mestery: yeah, that's one bad thing about the latest midcycle: short notice :) | 14:10 |
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| mestery | Yes | 14:10 |
| dasm | mestery: garyk: True. AFAIR, there was an email in mid-Dec or sth, that there will be no mid-cycle in this release | 14:10 |
| ihrachys | mhickey: Brno is limited in the scope and attendance, so it's not the same | 14:10 |
| * mestery still thinks there should be no mid-cycles | 14:10 | |
| mhickey | Rochester was very nice. | 14:10 |
| mestery | mhickey: It was! | 14:10 |
| garyk | i agree with mestery | 14:10 |
| amuller | mestery++ | 14:10 |
| Sam-I-Am | it was nice to see everyone in person | 14:10 |
| Sam-I-Am | we get to beat each other up in person | 14:11 |
| ihrachys | mestery: I bet then you take part in the thread on splitting the summit, don't you? | 14:11 |
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| mestery | ihrachys: I'm too old to take part in that thread ;) | 14:11 |
| mestery | But yeah, split them up! | 14:11 |
| garyk | yeah, it will be like the staidum, split them up and then get them back together and then split them up.... | 14:11 |
| mhickey | It was good for me to meet people for the first time. | 14:11 |
| xgerman | grays +1 | 14:11 |
| mestery | lol | 14:12 |
| xgerman | garyk +1 | 14:12 |
| reedip__ | garyk :+1 | 14:12 |
| amuller | garyk: it's "agile" | 14:12 |
| salv-orlando | sarcasm is great with garyk | 14:12 |
| amuller | "iterative" | 14:12 |
| ihrachys | garyk: openstack: it's all about process | 14:12 |
| garyk | :) | 14:12 |
| mestery | garyk: We have no idea what the next PTL will do, do we? | 14:12 |
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| xgerman | he might run on some stadium platform ;- | 14:12 |
| garyk | i hope that she/he does the right thing | 14:12 |
| salv-orlando | and indeed I'm sure mestery was very supportive of midcycles 2 years ago | 14:12 |
| ihrachys | mestery: unless we keep the one well known to us ;) | 14:12 |
| * Sam-I-Am runs for PTL | 14:12 | |
| mestery | salv-orlando: I'm nothing if not a flip-flopper, that's for sure | 14:13 |
| Sam-I-Am | mestery: you should run for president | 14:13 |
| garyk | garyk: runs from the PTL.... | 14:13 |
| amuller | mestery: False, I've never once seen you wear flip flops | 14:13 |
| salv-orlando | mestery: nah it's just that since you had your 4th your wife has threathened you to not live home anymore | 14:13 |
| salv-orlando | leave | 14:13 |
| mestery | amuller: lol | 14:13 |
| mestery | salv-orlando: ha! | 14:13 |
| reedip__ | garyk : hehe... | 14:13 |
| Sam-I-Am | ptl sounds like such a fun job lol | 14:13 |
| mestery | amuller: Challenge accepted for Austin :) | 14:13 |
| garyk | i think that it is cheaper to dye ones hair grey | 14:14 |
| * ihrachys waits until people waste all their jokes for the week | 14:14 | |
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| garyk | i think that we have digressed a little from the agenda | 14:14 |
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| ihrachys | oh really? ok let's move on then ;) | 14:14 |
| ihrachys | #topic Bugs | 14:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:14 | |
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| Sam-I-Am | we never digress from anything | 14:15 |
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| xgerman | +1 | 14:15 |
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| Sam-I-Am | its called agile meeting | 14:15 |
| xgerman | un conference | 14:15 |
| ihrachys | we have two things here. one is dasm report for the prev week | 14:15 |
| ihrachys | dasm: anything mind blowing from the week you served? | 14:15 |
| dasm | ihrachys: True. There was a very calm week. | 14:15 |
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| dasm | we had just one big incident with api gate | 14:15 |
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| dasm | where tempest_lib broke everything and glorious PTL(TM) fixed it | 14:16 |
| ihrachys | now that's the Leader! | 14:16 |
| dasm | and second one, when by accident neutron-fwaas broke support for postgres | 14:16 |
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| ihrachys | dasm: ok I guess you tagged all bugs as per rules, and all went smooth | 14:16 |
| dasm | and, about this postgres thing. we lack gate for this, because it would be visible earlier | 14:16 |
| dasm | ihrachys: i'm still buried under the pile of bugs :D | 14:17 |
| dasm | but progressing | 14:17 |
| ihrachys | dasm: I think we had postgres jobs before, but they never got enough attention so were dissolved | 14:17 |
| xgerman | they come and go | 14:17 |
| xgerman | I was for removing but... | 14:17 |
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| dasm | mhm. in this case at least two different projects noticed problems with db. so, probably we should again think about it | 14:18 |
| dasm | just my opinion | 14:18 |
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| salv-orlando | postgres got "sacrificed" - I believe - to limit gate job sprawl | 14:18 |
| ihrachys | dasm: I guess as long as you drive the job and fix it quickly, no one would object more coverage | 14:18 |
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| ihrachys | if sprawl is the issue, periodic jobs are always there as a mid solution | 14:18 |
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| amuller | as long as we don't have postgres-dvr, postgres-lb, postgres-*... | 14:19 |
| ihrachys | amuller: we should also add python34 to the matrix | 14:19 |
| ihrachys | and centos vs. ubuntu maybe | 14:19 |
| ihrachys | that would be fun | 14:19 |
| ihrachys | ok. | 14:19 |
| HenryG | there is some patch out to restore a postgres job somewhere | 14:19 |
| salv-orlando | ihrachys: sure. The sacrified happened before people started moving jobs to the periodic queue. a postgres job is useful because there's always the odd failure due to the different default isolation level | 14:19 |
| amotoki | iirc there was an idea of a periodic job rather than gate jobs, but I don't know how it goes. | 14:20 |
| salv-orlando | and why not batman vs superman? | 14:20 |
| * salv-orlando disappears | 14:20 | |
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| ihrachys | the 2nd thing on bugs is... we don't have anyone as the bug deputy for the week, neither for the next one. | 14:20 |
| HenryG | PG is back in the check queue, non voting. https://review.openstack.org/283812 | 14:20 |
| ihrachys | so if you feel like you want to please your glorious PTL and the team, it's time to make a step forward | 14:20 |
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| ihrachys | HenryG: oh cool! thanks for the link | 14:21 |
| dasm | HenryG: ++ | 14:21 |
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| ihrachys | anyone for the bug deputy thing? | 14:22 |
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| dasm | please, take it... it's fun! | 14:22 |
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| ihrachys | you heard that week was quiet. I bet it's the best time to get in, since I suspect this week to be as quiet as the previous one. ;) | 14:22 |
| Sam-I-Am | i cant take on any more stuff right now :/ | 14:23 |
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| ihrachys | note we have a table of people who already served the job for the project | 14:23 |
| ihrachys | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings#Bug_deputy | 14:23 |
| amotoki | it is now a big table! too wide to my browser | 14:24 |
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| scheuran | ihrachys, I can take over this week | 14:24 |
| dasm | amotoki: buy bigger monitor | 14:24 |
| ihrachys | I guess we reach the time when we should wrap up the list | 14:24 |
| ihrachys | scheuran: great! | 14:24 |
| ihrachys | scheuran: thanks a lot man. | 14:24 |
| ihrachys | we also need to cover the next week. | 14:24 |
| amotoki | dasm: right solution! | 14:24 |
| HenryG | scheuran rocks! | 14:24 |
| ihrachys | ok, let me trigger the wrap up, I will take the next week after that. | 14:25 |
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| ajo | we should probably think of reformating that table to something else :) | 14:25 |
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| rossella_s | ajo++ | 14:25 |
| HenryG | go ihrachys! | 14:25 |
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| dasm | ajo: so... you're a volunteer for reformatting? | 14:25 |
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| ihrachys | #topic Docs | 14:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:25 | |
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| reedip__ | Why do we need a matrix for the table ?? | 14:26 |
| Sam-I-Am | i recommend a 3-d table :) | 14:26 |
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| mhickey | scheuran:++ | 14:26 |
| ihrachys | Sam-I-Am: anything worth noting before Mitaka3 cut off? | 14:26 |
| xgerman | 3d +1 | 14:26 |
| ajo | dasm, :D next time I go for bug deputy I will fix it , I'll be happy to doit after FF | 14:26 |
| reedip__ | scheuran:+1 | 14:26 |
| Sam-I-Am | ihrachys: not much. trying to push some patches into the networking guide. | 14:26 |
| mhickey | ihrachys: ++ | 14:26 |
| Sam-I-Am | good to see a lot of contributions from neutrinos | 14:26 |
| Sam-I-Am | if we get MTU stuff merged, its probably fewer docs because it Just Works as it should | 14:27 |
| Sam-I-Am | rather than being a mess of workarounds | 14:27 |
| Sam-I-Am | so, removing docs is nice. | 14:27 |
| ihrachys | we'll get there, seems like we are on good track with MTU work | 14:27 |
| ihrachys | ok folks, one thing to note here is | 14:27 |
| ihrachys | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-February/087837.html | 14:27 |
| Sam-I-Am | yep | 14:27 |
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| ihrachys | ^ Armando posted a reminder on how to handle DocImpact tags | 14:27 |
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| ihrachys | basically, we don't want to have the tag in each and every patch for a feature | 14:28 |
| ihrachys | a single commit with the tag is enough | 14:28 |
| hichihara | And we shouldn't add the tag into spec | 14:28 |
| ihrachys | and also the tag should give brief clue which changes for docs are expected | 14:28 |
| amotoki | you don't need to add DocImpact flag for both server and client changes. | 14:28 |
| ihrachys | hichihara: yes, adding it to specs patch is too early, since code may not land | 14:29 |
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| amotoki | as summary we don't need docimpact for -specs and (in most cases) -client | 14:30 |
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| ihrachys | #topic i18n liaisonship | 14:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "i18n liaisonship (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:30 | |
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| ihrachys | one more thing to note is there was an email from i18n folks that they need a i18n liaison from all projects, including neutron | 14:30 |
| ihrachys | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-February/087757.html | 14:30 |
| ihrachys | we already have amotoki serving for the role for several cycles | 14:30 |
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| ihrachys | while Akihiro is too kind to serve for more, neither he will be against someone stepping in and freeing him from the obligation | 14:31 |
| ihrachys | right amotoki ? | 14:31 |
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| amotoki | i am working as i18n team as well, so it is not an additional job... but if someone volunteers it, feel free to go! | 14:32 |
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| ihrachys | great. so if someone is willing to share some burden there, please reach to amotoki or armax or me | 14:32 |
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| amotoki | perhaps it would be small burden. | 14:32 |
| ihrachys | (just an idea) could be a good start for someone not yet too involved into the team business | 14:33 |
| ihrachys | ok, moving on | 14:33 |
| ihrachys | #topic Open Discussion | 14:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:33 | |
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| ihrachys | amotoki: wanna reiterate on the client release? or we are good? | 14:33 |
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| amotoki | i don't want to discuss them again :) | 14:34 |
| -amotoki- just cannot find a right place | 14:34 | |
| ihrachys | ok great :) | 14:34 |
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| ihrachys | anyone has anything to raise in this tight pre-release time? | 14:34 |
| ihrachys | ok, I guess the answer is no and we can get back to reviews and coding and drinking coffee | 14:35 |
| ihrachys | thanks folks for attending, next time it will finally be US time, Monday | 14:35 |
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| dasm | thanks all. | 14:36 |
| ihrachys | keep up the good work ;) | 14:36 |
| ihrachys | #endmeeting | 14:36 |
| dasm | have a nice day! | 14:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:36 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 1 14:36:04 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:36 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2016/networking.2016-03-01-14.01.html | 14:36 |
| xgerman | o/ | 14:36 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2016/networking.2016-03-01-14.01.txt | 14:36 |
| rossella_s | thanks ihrachys | 14:36 |
| hichihara | bye | 14:36 |
| rossella_s | byt! | 14:36 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2016/networking.2016-03-01-14.01.log.html | 14:36 |
| rossella_s | bye | 14:36 |
| annp | Bye | 14:36 |
| amotoki | thanks | 14:36 |
| Sam-I-Am | thanks | 14:36 |
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| reedip__ | o/ | 14:36 |
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| mhickey | bye | 14:36 |
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| jasondotstar | #startmeeting openstack-salt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 1 15:00:03 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jasondotstar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack-salt)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_salt' | 15:00 |
| jasondotstar | #topic Roll Call | 15:00 |
| jasondotstar | o/ | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: openstack-salt)" | 15:00 | |
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| vhoward | o/ | 15:02 |
| jasondotstar | whoops sorry! I'm 1hr early i think :-0 | 15:02 |
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| carl_baldwin | One minute. Laptop not connecting... | 15:02 |
| jasondotstar | yes 1hr early. | 15:03 |
| arif-ali | hi | 15:03 |
| jasondotstar | #endmeeting | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:03 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 1 15:03:14 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:03 |
| carl_baldwin | Okay, had to restart client. | 15:03 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_salt/2016/openstack_salt.2016-03-01-15.00.html | 15:03 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_salt/2016/openstack_salt.2016-03-01-15.00.txt | 15:03 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_salt/2016/openstack_salt.2016-03-01-15.00.log.html | 15:03 |
| jasondotstar | arif-ali: we'll try this again in 1hr :-) | 15:03 |
| carl_baldwin | Hi all. I'm ready for the routed networks meeting. | 15:03 |
| neiljerram | hi | 15:03 |
| obondarev | o/ | 15:03 |
| carl_baldwin | #startmeeting neutron_routed_networks | 15:04 |
| jasondotstar | carl_baldwin: sorry, got hear 1hr early. your team has the floor. | 15:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 1 15:04:00 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is carl_baldwin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:04 |
| vikram_ | hi | 15:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)" | 15:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_routed_networks' | 15:04 |
| carl_baldwin | jasondotstar: No worries, it happens. I did it last week. ;) | 15:04 |
| carl_baldwin | #topic Announcements | 15:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)" | 15:04 | |
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| mlavalle | hi | 15:04 |
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| carl_baldwin | I think the latest version of the spec has general consensus. At least, I haven't heard any arguments against it. | 15:05 |
| carl_baldwin | And there is good support for it. | 15:05 |
| carl_baldwin | I'll try to keep the agenda on the meetings page. | 15:05 |
| carl_baldwin | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Neutron-Routed-Networks#March_1st.2C_2016 | 15:05 |
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| carl_baldwin | minus the stuff after the # | 15:05 |
| neiljerram | But I have at least a query... | 15:06 |
| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: Please, present it. :) | 15:06 |
| neiljerram | It's a bit long for here - I commented early Monday. | 15:07 |
| neiljerram | But in summary, it's about how Segment objects relate (or not) to segment descriptions in the multi-provider extension | 15:07 |
| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: I will look for it. I did not see it yesterday. Though, yesterday was filled with other catching up. | 15:07 |
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| neiljerram | carl_baldwin, Thanks - and I'm sorry for not getting to a full re-review earlier than I did. | 15:08 |
| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: They certainly relate. They share a table. | 15:08 |
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| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: The segments of the multi-provider extension are being "promoted" to a first class thing. Both extensions will be different views to the same data. | 15:09 |
| neiljerram | So how can there be independent CRUD for Segment objects then? Surely the only Segment objects that should exist are those implied by the content of the multi-provider (or provider) extension? | 15:10 |
| carl_baldwin | I hope that one day we can consolidate the extensions. The multi-provider extension has some usability drawbacks. | 15:10 |
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| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: It is a single data model with different views. | 15:11 |
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| carl_baldwin | The announcement that I had is that we are beginning to collect code contributions on the gerrit topic. | 15:13 |
| carl_baldwin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:bp/routed-networks | 15:13 |
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| carl_baldwin | These are all WIP for now but will be fleshed out quickly. | 15:13 |
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| vikram_ | nice | 15:13 |
| carl_baldwin | I actually have another patch locally that I will put up soon. | 15:13 |
| neiljerram | carl_baldwin, So, for example, if a Network was configured with multiprov seg1,seg2,seg3, three corresponding Segment objects would be auto-created. And then if a fourth Segment object was added by the operator, it would be as though the Network had been reconfigured with seg1,seg2,seg3,seg4 ? | 15:14 |
| carl_baldwin | And, I'm going to pull in an existing patch to move the segments table out of ML2 and in to core. Let me find a link. | 15:14 |
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| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: That sounds about right. | 15:15 |
| carl_baldwin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/242393/ | 15:17 |
| neiljerram | carl_baldwin, OK thanks. I'll defer to continuing this in Gerrit now, so as not to derail the meeting here. | 15:17 |
| carl_baldwin | ^ Patch to move segments table. | 15:17 |
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| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: Do you see something fundamentally wrong with this approach? | 15:17 |
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| mlavalle | carl_baldwin: is this patchset going to be the head of the dependency chain? | 15:18 |
| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: Yes, once I get things rebased. | 15:18 |
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| mlavalle | carl_baldwin: ++ | 15:18 |
| neiljerram | carl_baldwin, No; but I means that Calico can't use Segments to express its clustered IP allocation desires | 15:18 |
| neiljerram | s/I means/it means. | 15:19 |
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| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: That is a good point. My impression of our past conversations was that it wasn't going to work for that use case and you were looking at host aware IPAM. | 15:20 |
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| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: I had started that work on the plane and made some progress. I need to button it up and get it posted. | 15:21 |
| mlavalle | carl_baldwin: ok, i'll wait for you to post it and then align my patchset with it | 15:22 |
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| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: This is worth some more discussion. | 15:22 |
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| carl_baldwin | #topic Work items | 15:23 |
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| carl_baldwin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/225384/18/specs/mitaka/routed-networks.rst | 15:23 |
| neiljerram | carl_baldwin, Yes, more discussion. (I guess you mean the difference between hard and soft boundaries. But I think there are remaining migration questions for VMs in a genuinely segmented network too.) | 15:23 |
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| * carl_baldwin realizes he has some draft comments in reply to feedback from armax still on the spec. Needs to wrap that up. | 15:24 | |
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| carl_baldwin | I laid out work items starting on line 443 | 15:24 |
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| carl_baldwin | I got started on the first one and have a WIP patch up for that. | 15:25 |
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| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: you have started, and made good progress, on the third. | 15:25 |
| mlavalle | carl_baldwin: yeah | 15:26 |
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| carl_baldwin | By the end of the week, I'll have patches up for the rest of the sub-items in the first bullet. | 15:26 |
| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: Not ignoring your comment. Let's get to it in a few minutes. | 15:27 |
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| carl_baldwin | To be honest, I may need someone to help contribute to the segments model. I get pulled away from it a lot and so progress is slow. | 15:28 |
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| carl_baldwin | We also have a need for someone to start playing around with deferred IP allocation. | 15:28 |
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| neiljerram | carl_baldwin, I am definitely interested in the latter. | 15:28 |
| mlavalle | carl_baldwin: I am available to help...... you tell me where you want me to help | 15:29 |
| mlavalle | carl_baldwin: besides what I am already doing | 15:29 |
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| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: Great. Let me know what you need to get going on that. | 15:30 |
| neiljerram | I could do with a good and exhaustive picture of what the Nova/Neutron interactions are at the moment. | 15:31 |
| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: You mean what they currently are, or what they will be? | 15:31 |
| neiljerram | carl_baldwin, What they are now. | 15:32 |
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| neiljerram | carl_baldwin, I suspect there are possibilities that I'm not yet aware of. | 15:32 |
| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: Have you had a chance to read the Nova spec that I have up? | 15:32 |
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| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: Also, have you had a chance to review that one? | 15:33 |
| neiljerram | carl_baldwin, Not yet; I'll do that. | 15:33 |
| mlavalle | carl_baldwin: yes, I gave it a first pass yesterday. I intend to go over it again today | 15:33 |
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| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: It goes in to a little more detail. It describes a few use cases for how an end user interactions. For example, end user calls Nova boot with --net. Or, end user calls Neutron to create a port with no IP address and calls boot with that port, etc. | 15:34 |
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| carl_baldwin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/263898/ | 15:35 |
| carl_baldwin | It has gone without a meaningful review for a little while now and that concerns me. | 15:35 |
| carl_baldwin | As for the current nova / neutron interactions, mlavalle is my goto guy. :) | 15:36 |
| neiljerram | Sorry! | 15:36 |
| carl_baldwin | I learned quite a bit about it by reviewing his DNS code. | 15:37 |
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| mlavalle | carl_baldwin: yes, that is why I drew attention to it yesterday in the nova scheduler meeting | 15:37 |
| mlavalle | carl_baldwin: I meant the spec | 15:37 |
| mlavalle | carl_baldwin: maybe also I will attend the nova meeting on Tursday to start bringing it up | 15:37 |
| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: I should have jumped in yesterday. It was the end of an early meeting and I wasn't in a position to type. But, I was surprised that they seemed to think it was new. | 15:38 |
| mlavalle | Thursday^^^ | 15:38 |
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| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: I wanted to tell them that this work was featured prominently at the Nova mid-cycle and was the subject of a rather long discussion. Many of those guys were there. | 15:38 |
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| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: That would be great. Let's not let them forget this spec is out there and is important to Neutron. | 15:39 |
| carl_baldwin | :) | 15:39 |
| mlavalle | carl_baldwin: let's remind them during the next their next meeting | 15:39 |
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| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: So, back to deferred IP allocation. I think what we need is for someone to try it out. But, to try it out, we might need the work that I haven't posted yet to attach subnets to segments. | 15:40 |
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| carl_baldwin | #action carl_baldwin will post work to link subnets and segments. | 15:41 |
| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: Then, we need to defer IP allocation when the segment is not known until host binding and see how Nova reacts to that. | 15:41 |
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| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: ++ | 15:42 |
| neiljerram | carl_baldwin, Well I would hope that work on deferred IP allocation would _not_ be closely tied to segments. So that it could be applicable to scenarios that don't use segments. | 15:42 |
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| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: Yes. We just need to know what triggers deferred IP allocation in the non-segments case. | 15:43 |
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| neiljerram | carl_baldwin, Right. | 15:43 |
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| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: Because I don't think we want to defer for every port create. | 15:44 |
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| neiljerram | carl_baldwin, Agreed. | 15:44 |
| neiljerram | carl_baldwin, That would be a big change for lots of existing situations | 15:44 |
| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: ++ | 15:44 |
| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: Right now, one trigger for deferred allocation is that all of the subnets are tied to segments and the segment is not known. That doesn't have to be the only trigger. | 15:45 |
| neiljerram | carl_baldwin, So for me I think next step is to think what that trigger should be. | 15:45 |
| carl_baldwin | We could have another mechanism where IPAM itself triggers deferred allocation. | 15:45 |
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| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: I'm just thinking out loud here. | 15:46 |
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| neiljerram | Yes, I was just thinking the same. If a particular driver wants to be host-dependent, it should have a property that says 'that means I need deferred allocation' | 15:46 |
| neiljerram | IPAM driver, I meant there. | 15:46 |
| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: Something along those lines is what I'm thinking too. | 15:47 |
| neiljerram | Although I also wonder whether it might be interesting to look at Subnet/host mapping similar to the Segment/host mapping in the current spec. | 15:47 |
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| neiljerram | That could allow host/Subnet affinity in the core, separately with the connectivity implications of being a segment. | 15:48 |
| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: I think you may be on to something. | 15:48 |
| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: Are you following? | 15:49 |
| mlavalle | carl_baldwin: yes | 15:49 |
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| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: So, a plugin / driver could provide an interface for host / subnet mapping? It might go through segments and might not. Is that kind of what you're thinking? | 15:50 |
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| neiljerram | carl_baldwin, yes, that's it. | 15:50 |
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| carl_baldwin | And, I think the hard vs soft boundaries may come in to play here. | 15:51 |
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| neiljerram | carl_baldwin, For Calico in particular that would work very nicely, because I guess much of the core code would be common with the segmented case, but we wouldn't have to write a pluggable IPAM driver. | 15:51 |
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| neiljerram | The boundaries question is interesting in the segmented case too, I think. Can a VM on segment migrate to a host on another segment? | 15:53 |
| carl_baldwin | neiljerram: At the moment, no. | 15:53 |
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| carl_baldwin | Migration would be limited to same segment. | 15:53 |
| carl_baldwin | s/would/will/ | 15:53 |
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| mlavalle | carl_baldwin: we need to tweak the spec, don't we? | 15:54 |
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| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: For the mapping part? Let me think about it. I don't want to stall the current spec. This might just be a follow-on. | 15:55 |
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| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: I might want to consult with you later today to flesh this idea out. | 15:55 |
| mlavalle | carl_baldwin: yeah..... for the mapping part.... ok, let's talk later | 15:56 |
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| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: It doesn't really change what we need around segment / host mapping in the short term. | 15:56 |
| neiljerram | carl_baldwin, I'm sorry again for raising this so late - we've been focussing here on a release, for quite a while. But I have time to help now. | 15:56 |
| mlavalle | carl_baldwin: agree | 15:56 |
| mlavalle | carl_baldwin: but is additional stuff that we need to do | 15:57 |
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| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: Right. I think I want to go look at the segment aware DHCP patch too in this context. | 15:58 |
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| carl_baldwin | #action carl_baldwin will work out host / subnet mapping interface. | 15:58 |
| carl_baldwin | Well, we're about out of time. Anything else? | 15:58 |
| mlavalle | carl_baldwin: not from me.... actually I need to go to another meeting :-) | 15:59 |
| carl_baldwin | Thanks vikram_ obondarev mlavalle and neiljerram (did I forget anyone?) | 15:59 |
| neiljerram | Thanks! | 15:59 |
| vikram_ | thanks | 15:59 |
| mlavalle | thanks! | 15:59 |
| carl_baldwin | Hope to see more next week. | 15:59 |
| carl_baldwin | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 1 16:00:01 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_routed_networks/2016/neutron_routed_networks.2016-03-01-15.04.html | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_routed_networks/2016/neutron_routed_networks.2016-03-01-15.04.txt | 16:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_routed_networks/2016/neutron_routed_networks.2016-03-01-15.04.log.html | 16:00 |
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| jasondotstar | #startmeeting openstack-salt | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 1 16:00:40 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jasondotstar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack-salt)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_salt' | 16:00 |
| jasondotstar | let's try this again :-) | 16:00 |
| jasondotstar | #topic roll call | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: openstack-salt)" | 16:00 | |
| jasondotstar | o/ | 16:00 |
| arif-ali | hi | 16:00 |
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| cznewt | hi | 16:01 |
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| jasondotstar | hi cznewt, arif-ali | 16:01 |
| jasondotstar | another minute and we'll get going.... | 16:01 |
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| genunix | o/ | 16:02 |
| jasondotstar | hi genunix | 16:02 |
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| genunix | Hello :-) | 16:02 |
| kevinbenton | Hi | 16:02 |
| jasondotstar | hi kevinbenton | 16:02 |
| jasondotstar | #topic Introduction | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Introduction (Meeting topic: openstack-salt)" | 16:03 | |
| jasondotstar | This meeting for the openstack-salt team | 16:03 |
| jasondotstar | If you're interested in contributing to the discussion, please join #openstack-salt | 16:03 |
| jasondotstar | Meetings are Weekly on Tuesdays at 1600UTC | 16:03 |
| liqw | hello ;) | 16:03 |
| jasondotstar | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/#OpenStack_Salt_Team_Meeting | 16:03 |
| jasondotstar | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/openstack-salt | 16:04 |
| jasondotstar | ok.... | 16:04 |
| jasondotstar | #topic Review past action items | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review past action items (Meeting topic: openstack-salt)" | 16:04 | |
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| jasondotstar | we didn't have a meeting last week | 16:04 |
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| jasondotstar | so everything we had on the board was carried over. with that let's see where we are | 16:05 |
| jasondotstar | genunix to continue openstack packaging research | 16:05 |
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| jasondotstar | any updates? | 16:05 |
| genunix | jasondotstar: nope :-X | 16:05 |
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| genunix | jasondotstar: too busy with contrail packaging for ARM | 16:06 |
| jasondotstar | no worries | 16:06 |
| jasondotstar | let's move it up | 16:06 |
| arif-ali | this also ties in what I am doing, how are you proposing of hosting the formulas? | 16:06 |
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| arif-ali | and then to build? tarballs.openstack.org? | 16:06 |
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| jasondotstar | #action genunix tlo continue researching openstack packaging | 16:06 |
| carl_baldwin | xiaohhui: ping | 16:07 |
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| carl_baldwin | jasondotstar: sorry wrong room | 16:08 |
| genunix | arif-ali: I don't know tarballs.openstack.org, what did you find regarding RPM packaging of formulas? | 16:08 |
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| jasondotstar | carl_baldwin: no worries | 16:08 |
| arif-ali | well, all the projects in RDO, assume that the tarball of the project is hosted at tarball.openstack.org, (I think that is the URL) | 16:08 |
| cznewt | the formula packages are now hosted at tcpcloud repo for debain, we can look how we could use the tarballs.os.org | 16:08 |
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| genunix | our repo (apt.tcpcloud.eu) + Launchpad PPA (launchpad.org/~tcpcloud) | 16:09 |
| arif-ali | and then they use that on their build server and spec files | 16:09 |
| jasondotstar | just so that I understand.... | 16:09 |
| jasondotstar | as an example | 16:09 |
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| jasondotstar | the salt-formula-ceilometer project | 16:09 |
| jasondotstar | what will be in the pkg? | 16:10 |
| jasondotstar | what's the RPM or DEB comprised of? | 16:10 |
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| arif-ali | they are comprised of the actual formulas for the projects, I presume | 16:10 |
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| cznewt | yes the content of service dir | 16:11 |
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| jasondotstar | so we're simply packaging up the salt formulas we develop | 16:12 |
| cznewt | the install is simple copying over to proper place | 16:12 |
| cznewt | yes | 16:12 |
| jasondotstar | +1 | 16:12 |
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| arif-ali | I have an example of the RPMs in http://yum.ocf.co.uk/rh7/noarch/ for RPM packages | 16:12 |
| jasondotstar | #agreed the packages we build will be comprised of the actual salt formulas for each project | 16:12 |
| jasondotstar | #link http://yum.ocf.co.uk/rh7/noarch/ | 16:12 |
| cznewt | the ci is setup for building apt packages, not for rpm now | 16:12 |
| jasondotstar | cznewt: is that what you're working on figuring out? | 16:13 |
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| cznewt | we can look into building rpms using openstack ci | 16:13 |
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| jasondotstar | yeah, we'll need someone to take a look at that | 16:14 |
| jasondotstar | any takers? | 16:14 |
| cznewt | and switching the apt building as well | 16:14 |
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| arif-ali | ok, I have spec files available, that's listed in the etherpad | 16:14 |
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| jasondotstar | ok | 16:15 |
| jasondotstar | #action Research building RPMs using the openstack-ci | 16:15 |
| jasondotstar | ok let's keep moving | 16:15 |
| jasondotstar | jasondotstar to begin working on the launchpad integration (enlisting help from cznewt) | 16:16 |
| jasondotstar | so | 16:16 |
| jasondotstar | i've created all the launchpad projects | 16:16 |
| jasondotstar | for each of the salt projects we've got | 16:17 |
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| jasondotstar | from a discussion that I had with -infra | 16:17 |
| jasondotstar | since we've got the LP projects named the same as the git.o.o projects | 16:17 |
| jasondotstar | we should be able to simply reference bug-IDs | 16:17 |
| jasondotstar | in our commit msgs | 16:17 |
| jasondotstar | so that they close bugs that are filed in LaunchPad | 16:18 |
| jasondotstar | in a nutshell, LP is simply used for bug tracking, and blueprint documentation | 16:18 |
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| jasondotstar | all of our code and the review process is hosted on reviews.o.o | 16:19 |
| jasondotstar | that's about where that tasks sits atm | 16:19 |
| jasondotstar | questions? | 16:19 |
| genunix | good, so LP is ready now? | 16:19 |
| jasondotstar | yes | 16:19 |
| jasondotstar | it is ready | 16:19 |
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| jasondotstar | each of our core team members should be members of the LP groups | 16:20 |
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| jasondotstar | for bug tracking 'OpenStack Salt Bugs Team' is the group you should join. | 16:20 |
| cznewt | for the tasks, I'd use LP | 16:20 |
| jasondotstar | cznewt: true | 16:20 |
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| jasondotstar | tasks should go there as well. | 16:20 |
| arif-ali | +1 | 16:20 |
| jasondotstar | Blueprints are feature docs | 16:21 |
| jasondotstar | like the RPM and DEB packaging | 16:21 |
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| jasondotstar | im wondering if we should create a blueprint doc for that | 16:21 |
| jasondotstar | is that a feature? or just part of the business? | 16:21 |
| genunix | and in which project then? | 16:21 |
| cznewt | The first task https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-salt/+bug/1551817 | 16:21 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1551817 in openstack-salt "Testing of lab environments [vagrant, heat] results" [Undecided,New] | 16:21 |
| jasondotstar | each project has its own bug tracker | 16:22 |
| jasondotstar | for a common task | 16:22 |
| jasondotstar | we'd have that task replicated across each LP bug site | 16:22 |
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| genunix | so for RPM packaging you need to create one task for every formula? | 16:23 |
| cznewt | or use openstack-salt project? | 16:23 |
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| cznewt | for extra formula tasks | 16:23 |
| genunix | yes I would also preffer using openstack-salt for common formula-independent tasks | 16:23 |
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| jasondotstar | hmmmm | 16:23 |
| jasondotstar | i guess we could | 16:23 |
| jasondotstar | is that the general consensus here? | 16:23 |
| jasondotstar | any -infra team ppl listening in care to advise? | 16:24 |
| jasondotstar | ok for now, i'm good with that idea | 16:25 |
| egon | seems reasonable. | 16:25 |
| jasondotstar | #agreed For common forumula-independent tasks, those will be filed under the openstack-salt LP project | 16:25 |
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| jasondotstar | #agreed For more specific tasks, those will be filed under its associated salt-formula-* LP project | 16:26 |
| jasondotstar | ok next: | 16:26 |
| jasondotstar | cznewt to look at beaker gates and how to fold in a similar process into the openstack-salt workflow | 16:27 |
| cznewt | I've looked up a few solustions, I don't know which is best | 16:27 |
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| cznewt | we'd use jenkins and heat to automate lab tests | 16:28 |
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| jasondotstar | +1 | 16:28 |
| cznewt | does anyone have experience with beaver? | 16:28 |
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| jasondotstar | beaver or beaker? | 16:29 |
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| cznewt | beaker of course :) | 16:29 |
| genunix | sidenote: if we want to do lab tests, we should move all required formulas under openstack big tent (nginx/apache and so) | 16:29 |
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| jasondotstar | +1 | 16:30 |
| cznewt | yes it on the roadmap | 16:30 |
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| jasondotstar | I've tried out beaker for puppet stuff in the past, but I probably need to play with it more :-/ | 16:30 |
| genunix | I would create an action to make a list of these formulas and proceed with it | 16:30 |
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| jasondotstar | genunix: proceed with implementing beaker tests with each formula? | 16:31 |
| cznewt | Yes, but there's discussion whether to host generic formulas in salt ecosystem rather that openstack | 16:31 |
| jasondotstar | +1 | 16:31 |
| jasondotstar | i think the openstack specific ones should be under big tent, and any supporting formulas should be under salt | 16:32 |
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| genunix | But there are not any common salt formulas or sort-of salt big tent or anything. We would need to create such "tent" first :-) | 16:33 |
| cznewt | the formulas we have are generally more functional than official ones, but the metadata definition is very much different for some seamless integration with official salt formulas | 16:33 |
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| jasondotstar | i c | 16:34 |
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| cznewt | But preferably i'd have all essential formulas for openstack-salt managed from one place | 16:34 |
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| genunix | ..also try to standarize some things in community (btw still no response to my mailing list post) | 16:34 |
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| arif-ali | I agree, that have everything the openstack-salt depends on, should be under one place | 16:34 |
| jasondotstar | one place = one project? | 16:35 |
| genunix | one place = openstack big tent? | 16:35 |
| jasondotstar | or one place = projects hosted in one place (big tent) | 16:35 |
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| cznewt | yes this is big tent question :) | 16:36 |
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| cznewt | I prefer separation of formulas as it help integration with custom formulas and better reusability | 16:37 |
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| jasondotstar | cznewt: agreed. each service should have it's own formula project | 16:37 |
| jasondotstar | then we can figure out which ones belong under big tent | 16:37 |
| jasondotstar | and which ones don't. | 16:37 |
| cznewt | it is not the simplest way, but given the complexity and growing number of services to manage | 16:37 |
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| jasondotstar | right. plus it's nice to have the ability to have self contained services | 16:38 |
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| jasondotstar | as much as we can 'box' them | 16:38 |
| cznewt | well some of the essential formulas are listed for the regular discussion, and will remain still, but at the end we should end up having formula for each openstack service | 16:39 |
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| jasondotstar | +1 | 16:39 |
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| arif-ali | +1 | 16:39 |
| cznewt | now it's like 10 formulas, with core it's like 20-25, and with extra openstack services we can go up to 50 | 16:39 |
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| cznewt | and that is for start | 16:40 |
| jasondotstar | #action Research big tent. Determine which of our salt-formula-* projects should fall under the big tent umbrella, and which of the more host-generic formulas should be pushed up to the salt community | 16:40 |
| jasondotstar | ok let's keep moving: | 16:40 |
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| jasondotstar | cznewt to work on getting the cloud-based labs for openstack-salt testing fully operational | 16:40 |
| cznewt | and from this some 10 formulas are supplemetal not strictly openstack and the growing number will be openstack ones | 16:40 |
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| cznewt | #link http://openstack-salt.tcpcloud.eu/develop/quickstart-heat.html | 16:41 |
| cznewt | The documentation for running the heat and vagrant based has been updated | 16:41 |
| jasondotstar | \o/ | 16:41 |
| jasondotstar | nice | 16:42 |
| cznewt | the updates are tested, on linux for no | 16:42 |
| cznewt | now | 16:42 |
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| jasondotstar | cool. | 16:42 |
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| jasondotstar | ok next: | 16:42 |
| jasondotstar | UNASSIGNED => continue monitoring the salt mailing list for a response | 16:42 |
| jasondotstar | think we just heard that we've still had no response on this | 16:42 |
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| cznewt | yes | 16:43 |
| jasondotstar | ok | 16:43 |
| jasondotstar | next: jasondotstar to write a blog post that illustrates how to setup the openstack-salt local dev environment | 16:43 |
| jasondotstar | I've yet to write this. :-X | 16:43 |
| cznewt | I can help with this | 16:43 |
| jasondotstar | so, I'll move this one up | 16:43 |
| jasondotstar | cznewt: ok cool. | 16:43 |
| jasondotstar | I'll get with you on it | 16:44 |
| cznewt | Yes | 16:44 |
| jasondotstar | basically it's rewriting the steps you've got | 16:44 |
| jasondotstar | but I want to add a short terminal vid too. | 16:44 |
| cznewt | Yes, cool I liked that | 16:44 |
| jasondotstar | anyway, we'll work on this this week | 16:44 |
| jasondotstar | next: jasondotstar to coordinate 'sunsetting' of the salt formula repos under the stackforge/ namespace | 16:45 |
| cznewt | and a little copy-pasting for steps | 16:45 |
| jasondotstar | cznewt: right :-) | 16:45 |
| jasondotstar | ok this one is COMPLETE | 16:45 |
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| jasondotstar | all of the old stackforge repos have been marked as RETIRED via the process laid out by -infra | 16:46 |
| jasondotstar | and they are marked as RO | 16:46 |
| jasondotstar | so we shouldn't have dual salt efforts | 16:46 |
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| jasondotstar | with what we have under the openstack/ namespace and the stackforge/ namespace | 16:46 |
| jasondotstar | any questions on this? | 16:47 |
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| jasondotstar | ok next: arif-ali to confirm where the tarballed pkgs for the openstack salt formulas should be hosted | 16:47 |
| cznewt | yes, I've audited the formulas and found no additional functionality | 16:47 |
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| jasondotstar | most of those old ones didn't have much in them at all. | 16:47 |
| arif-ali | so, this, I think we have already discussed, and maybe there is another route we need to create the RPMs, i.e. via openstack-ci | 16:48 |
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| arif-ali | So, I need to understand how to do it via that, and can move the spec files into the relevant places to get them built | 16:48 |
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| cznewt | +1 | 16:49 |
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| jasondotstar | yep, i think we covered this - we just need to know how to use the openstack ci | 16:49 |
| arif-ali | does anyone here know? | 16:50 |
| cznewt | not for building tarballs, we'll have to go to -infra guys | 16:50 |
| jasondotstar | true | 16:51 |
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| jasondotstar | #action talk to the -infra team about using the openstack ci pipeline for building RPMs | 16:51 |
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| jasondotstar | ok running short on time | 16:51 |
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| jasondotstar | we've had quite a bit of discussion for topics from last meeting | 16:52 |
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| jasondotstar | anything else before we give the last 8 mins over to today's agenda? | 16:52 |
| cznewt | let's go | 16:52 |
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| cznewt | #topic Today's Agenda | 16:53 |
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| cznewt | Openstack-salt RedHat test stacks | 16:53 |
| jasondotstar | #topic todays agenda | 16:53 |
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| jasondotstar | go for it | 16:53 |
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| cznewt | what is the centos version required for testing redhat stack? | 16:54 |
| jasondotstar | 7 at this point i think | 16:54 |
| arif-ali | I am using centos 7.2 in most of my installations, so makes sense to 7 | 16:54 |
| jasondotstar | we can target 7 and if we find out otherwise | 16:55 |
| jasondotstar | we can add 6 | 16:55 |
| cznewt | we have the stack for single and cluster, the question is, do we make config node (salt-master) run centos for the begging as well | 16:55 |
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| cznewt | or do we wait until the packages are ready, or work with git based salt master? | 16:55 |
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| arif-ali | there is already salt-master for el7 | 16:56 |
| arif-ali | from epel | 16:56 |
| jasondotstar | +1 | 16:56 |
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| jasondotstar | we can use that | 16:56 |
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| arif-ali | that's what I am using in my test environments | 16:56 |
| jasondotstar | #action more discussion neede on testing the RH stack | 16:57 |
| cznewt | yes, delivering the formulas i was thinking | 16:57 |
| jasondotstar | #action more discussion needed on testing the RH stack | 16:57 |
| jasondotstar | how about this one? Testing lab: Schedule testing, prepare rules | 16:58 |
| cznewt | Now access to the testing lab | 16:58 |
| cznewt | let us know at #openstack-salt channel | 16:58 |
| jasondotstar | +1 | 16:58 |
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| jasondotstar | Discuss the Beaker-gate implementation possibilities, real experience | 16:58 |
| jasondotstar | Discussion about adding new formulas under openstack: Swift, Linux, OpenSSH, Salt, Reclass, Rabbit, Galera | 16:58 |
| cznewt | we'll have to figure rotating passwords and distributing them among team members | 16:58 |
| jasondotstar | let's move these two to the #openstack-salt channel | 16:59 |
| cznewt | yes this was tackled at tha beginning | 16:59 |
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| cznewt | ok | 16:59 |
| jasondotstar | right, we can continue there | 16:59 |
| jasondotstar | finally we've got to reviews that need to be addressed | 16:59 |
| jasondotstar | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/276353/ | 17:00 |
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| jasondotstar | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/276228/ | 17:00 |
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| jasondotstar | let's look at these as well | 17:00 |
| jasondotstar | ok... times up :-/ | 17:00 |
| jasondotstar | anything else? | 17:00 |
| jasondotstar | ok.... lost track of time, but good discussion | 17:01 |
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| jasondotstar | let's continue in channel | 17:01 |
| jasondotstar | thanks team | 17:01 |
| jasondotstar | #endmeeting | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 1 17:01:13 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_salt/2016/openstack_salt.2016-03-01-16.00.html | 17:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_salt/2016/openstack_salt.2016-03-01-16.00.txt | 17:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_salt/2016/openstack_salt.2016-03-01-16.00.log.html | 17:01 |
| gibi | #startmeeting nova notification | 17:01 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 1 17:01:29 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is gibi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova notification)" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_notification' | 17:01 |
| rlrossit | o/ | 17:01 |
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| * rlrossit actually remembered to be on time today | 17:01 | |
| gibi | rlrossit: hi! | 17:01 |
| cdent | o/ | 17:02 |
| gibi | cdent: hi! | 17:02 |
| gibi | #topic open reviews | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open reviews (Meeting topic: nova notification)" | 17:02 | |
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| gibi | cdent: thanks for the review on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/276363/ | 17:03 |
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| gibi | rlrossit: if you have time to check ^^ | 17:03 |
| cdent | gibi: seems like a great start | 17:03 |
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| rlrossit | I will put it on my TODO list, though I cannot guarantee when I will get to it | 17:03 |
| gibi | rlrossit: thanks :) | 17:03 |
| gibi | besides that patch I started working on the Newton spec | 17:04 |
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| gibi | I've just pushed the first version | 17:04 |
| gibi | with TODOs | 17:04 |
| gibi | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/286675/1/specs/newton/approved/versioned-notification-transformation.rst | 17:04 |
| gibi | It think I can sort out the TODOs this week | 17:05 |
| gibi | any early feedback is appreciated | 17:05 |
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| * rlrossit also puts that on his TODO list | 17:05 | |
| * rlrossit feels bad about shirking community responsibilities lately | 17:06 | |
| gibi | I share the feeling. I had bad weeks internall too | 17:06 |
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| gibi | anyhow that is the current state | 17:07 |
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| gibi | if you have no questions then I won't hold you here | 17:08 |
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| * gibi aims for the shortest meeting ever | 17:08 | |
| rlrossit | yeah nothing from me | 17:08 |
| rlrossit | and I know cdent is busy building inventories and whatnot | 17:08 |
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| cdent | yeah, pretty much | 17:09 |
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| gibi | OK. Thanks for dropping by. | 17:09 |
| cdent | I got nothing to add | 17:09 |
| gibi | See you around :) | 17:09 |
| cdent | \o/ | 17:09 |
| gibi | #endmeeting | 17:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:09 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 1 17:09:33 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:09 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_notification/2016/nova_notification.2016-03-01-17.01.html | 17:09 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_notification/2016/nova_notification.2016-03-01-17.01.txt | 17:09 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_notification/2016/nova_notification.2016-03-01-17.01.log.html | 17:09 |
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| stevemar | o/ | 18:01 |
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| raildo | o/ | 18:01 |
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| shaleh | \o | 18:01 |
| tsymanczyk | \o | 18:01 |
| topol | o/ | 18:01 |
| lhcheng | o/ | 18:01 |
| lbragstad | o/ | 18:01 |
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| tjcocozz | \o/ | 18:01 |
| henrynash | let’s make keystone great again | 18:01 |
| stevemar | courtsey keystone meeting ping for ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, ericksonsantos, geoffarnold, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, joesavak, lbragstad, lhcheng, marekd, morganfainberg, nkinder, raildo, rodrigods, roxanaghe, samueldmq, shaleh, stevemar, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong, claudiub, rderose, samleon, xek, MaxPC, tjcocozz, jorge_mu | 18:01 |
| stevemar | noz | 18:01 |
| ayoung | Woot! | 18:01 |
| gema | o/ | 18:01 |
| henrynash | oh, it is great | 18:01 |
| stevemar | henrynash: you are having too much fun :) | 18:01 |
| bknudson | foreigners think this is funny | 18:02 |
| samueldmq | hi all | 18:02 |
| stevemar | #startmeeting keystone | 18:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 1 18:02:18 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is stevemar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:02 |
| stevemar | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting#Main_Agenda | 18:02 |
| henrynash | just using teh ammunition he’s givin’ us | 18:02 |
| stevemar | not much on the agenda today! | 18:02 |
| dstanek | o/ | 18:02 |
| roxanaghe | \o | 18:02 |
| StefanPaetowJi-1 | Evening :-) | 18:02 |
| stevemar | #topic mitaka-3 release countdown | 18:02 |
| henrynash | bknudson: actually we’re pretty much all in a state of disbelief | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "mitaka-3 release countdown (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
| stevemar | welcome StefanPaetowJi-1 :) | 18:03 |
| breton | o/ | 18:03 |
| amakarov | hi! | 18:03 |
| stevemar | bknudson: we think it's down right hilarious | 18:03 |
| stevemar | anyyywho | 18:03 |
| stevemar | mitaka-3 is in good shape!!! https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/mitaka-3 | 18:03 |
| gyee | \o | 18:03 |
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| bknudson | just wait til we build that wall | 18:03 |
| stevemar | shadow users and reseller landed yesterday | 18:03 |
| raildo | stevemar: yay \o/ | 18:04 |
| rderose | o/ | 18:04 |
| stevemar | and we bumped cascade project detele/update since we couldn't decide on authorization for it | 18:04 |
| henrynash | stevemar: as indicated on irc, it would be nice to let https://review.openstack.org/#/c/286452/1 merge (51 mins away) | 18:04 |
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| stevemar | huge thanks to everyone involved :) | 18:04 |
| * topol looking fwd to those renegotiated trade deals with Canada and Great Britain... | 18:05 | |
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| stevemar | i know i've been pestering everyone about reviewing, but i think it paid off | 18:05 |
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| stevemar | both features look solid | 18:05 |
| stevemar | henrynash: yep, that'll go in | 18:05 |
| topol | excellent!!! | 18:05 |
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| henrynash | great job by all | 18:05 |
| stevemar | i'm waiting til bug 1549705 is fixed/merged | 18:06 |
| openstack | bug 1549705 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "migrate DB failed due to password cannot be null" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1549705 - Assigned to Dave Chen (wei-d-chen) | 18:06 |
| samueldmq | everybody happy :) | 18:06 |
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| gyee | happy on Super Tuesday! | 18:06 |
| henrynash | (does dance in clogs of the seven army blankets) | 18:06 |
| stevemar | henrynash: 286452 should merge soon, and i'll tag keystone when 285152 merges :) | 18:06 |
| morgan | gyee: lets leave politics out of this today :P | 18:06 |
| gyee | morgan, they started it :-) | 18:07 |
| henrynash | stevemar: excellent | 18:07 |
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| henrynash | gyee: oh, “politics”, that’s what it is…. | 18:07 |
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| stevemar | #topic mitaka-rc1 | 18:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "mitaka-rc1 (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:07 | |
| stevemar | #link https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/mitaka-rc1 | 18:08 |
| bknudson | do we get a stable branch? | 18:08 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: when is mitaka-rc1 due date? | 18:08 |
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| stevemar | samueldmq: http://releases.openstack.org/mitaka/schedule.html | 18:08 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: maybe get is_domain in the token in mitaka rc-1? | 18:08 |
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| stevemar | samueldmq: Mar 14-18 | 18:08 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: well, discuss here with others ? :) | 18:08 |
| stevemar | bknudson: a stable for mitaka? | 18:09 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: thx | 18:09 |
| bknudson | stevemar: yes, a stable branch for mitaka | 18:09 |
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| henrynash | samueldmq: not sure we want to add anything to the token after m3 | 18:09 |
| bknudson | so we can merge N features. | 18:09 |
| stevemar | bknudson: not yet, i assume those aren't created until after mitaka-3 is tagged, or rc1 | 18:09 |
| stevemar | dhellmann: ^ | 18:09 |
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| bknudson | you going to -2 reviews that propose new features? | 18:10 |
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| stevemar | bknudson: yep, all cores are welcomed to -2 new features that are proposed | 18:10 |
| stevemar | this should strictly be bug fixing | 18:10 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: ++ | 18:10 |
| henrynash | stevemar: I’m working on a fix for https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1517038, but it would need a driver interface change (i.e. moving yo a V9 interface for the domain_config)……although it is debatable as to whether an experimental driver interface is frozen or not | 18:10 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1517038 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "API-based Domain config method could temporarily show partial update" [Medium,New] | 18:10 |
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| stevemar | henrynash: hmm | 18:11 |
| rodrigods | o/ late | 18:12 |
| stevemar | henrynash: i would say not | 18:12 |
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| stevemar | now is a great time to go through the bug list if anyone has spare cycles and try to fix minor bugs during the rc1 period | 18:12 |
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| henrynash | stevemar: we have label it V8 (when they all got labled)….but the whole domain_config feature is marked as experimental still | 18:13 |
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| samueldmq | stevemar: just added another topic to agenda | 18:13 |
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| lbragstad | also - keeping up on the newly opened bugs will be important too | 18:13 |
| henrynash | if we are cool with keeping it at V8, then that maxes teh fix easier! | 18:14 |
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| stevemar | henrynash: yeah, let's milk the experimental status for all it's worth :) | 18:14 |
| henrynash | stevemar: spoken like a true leader | 18:14 |
| stevemar | gyee: raildo lbragstad i'm assuming you all have a handle on bug 1376937 and bug 1541621 | 18:14 |
| openstack | bug 1376937 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "No way to prevent duplicates in endpoints" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1376937 - Assigned to Raildo Mascena de Sousa Filho (raildo) | 18:14 |
| openstack | bug 1541621 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "Invalid fernet X-Subject-Token token should result in 404 instead of 401" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1541621 - Assigned to Guang Yee (guang-yee) | 18:14 |
| gyee | stevemar, working on it | 18:14 |
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| stevemar | gyee: thank you | 18:14 |
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| raildo | stevemar: working on it too | 18:15 |
| stevemar | samueldmq: your topic is not showing up, what is it? | 18:15 |
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| samueldmq | stevemar: looks like I should press 'Save PAge' | 18:16 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: * Add is_domain in the token for rc1 <code>henrynash, samueldmq</code> | 18:16 |
| stevemar | #topic Add is_domain in the token for rc1 | 18:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add is_domain in the token for rc1 (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:16 | |
| stevemar | henrynash samueldmq go for it | 18:16 |
| henrynash | samueldmq: I’ll let you argue this one | 18:16 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: k | 18:16 |
| stevemar | also, if editing the wiki page, it looks like there is a new security measure -- they have a "question" before saving the page, this is due to the spam attacks | 18:17 |
| samueldmq | so, projects now can act as domains | 18:17 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: yep | 18:17 |
| samueldmq | what we buy from it is to make it easier for other projs to adopt domain scoped tokens | 18:17 |
| rodrigods | samueldmq, can you point to the changes? middleware, client and keystone | 18:17 |
| samueldmq | that are project scoped tokens + is_domain flag | 18:18 |
| raildo | rodrigods: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/197331/ | 18:18 |
| bknudson | since no other projects are going to pick up a new feature now I don't see the need to put this in keystone in M. | 18:18 |
| samueldmq | raildo: thanks | 18:18 |
| rodrigods | raildo, thx | 18:18 |
| rodrigods | raildo, is that all? | 18:18 |
| samueldmq | bknudson: is this considered new feature? I mean, the feature is there, we have merged the API | 18:19 |
| samueldmq | it's just about making our change more complete | 18:19 |
| raildo | rodrigods: no, the topic will be better to get all patches | 18:19 |
| raildo | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bp/add-isdomain-to-token | 18:19 |
| bknudson | samueldmq: for another project to use this would be a new feature for them. | 18:19 |
| rodrigods | thanks raildo | 18:19 |
| ayoung | morgan, I think removing the cache exposed some leak over between tests | 18:19 |
| rodrigods | bknudson, not really... | 18:19 |
| rodrigods | it should be just a tweak in the policy file | 18:20 |
| bknudson | rodrigods: is any other project waiting on this for M? | 18:20 |
| henrynash | bknudson, samuedlmq: so no new project will use this in their M release, the only reason to cnsider this is to allow early work on N for other projects | 18:20 |
| ayoung | morgan, if I rebase my patch on top of master a bunch of the cache tests fail in setup | 18:20 |
| ayoung | RROR: InvocationError: '/usr/bin/bash tools/pretty_tox.sh keystone.tests.unit.test_backend_sql.SqlTokenCacheInvalidation.test_delete_unscoped_token' | 18:20 |
| ayoung | keystone.exception.ProjectNotFound: Could not find project: 91078ffd3935441f8fc0e7d3674472f1 | 18:20 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: ++ | 18:20 |
| bknudson | we can merge it when N opens | 18:20 |
| samueldmq | and iirc we have told hrizon guys about this feature | 18:21 |
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| rodrigods | henrynash, bknudson, deployers can use the feature by only changing the policy file | 18:21 |
| rodrigods | right? | 18:21 |
| rodrigods | if it lands in middleware | 18:21 |
| rodrigods | for other projects | 18:21 |
| samueldmq | bknudson: yes, I got your point; we may work together with them in our side + their side to merge all in a single cycle | 18:21 |
| david-lyle | horizon's not going to take advantage in M even if it's there | 18:21 |
| samueldmq | rodrigods: interesting; but in the case of horizon what bknudson is saying makes sense | 18:22 |
| samueldmq | and maybe changing token format is risky this late | 18:22 |
| ayoung | david-lyle, let's be hones,t Horizon won't take advantage of it in 'S' if it is there in 'M' | 18:22 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: ^ | 18:22 |
| henrynash | smaueldmq: I’ve had a look at the changes needs this morning, and while teh basic fucntionality is pretty straightforward, there are (in my mind) still some question about auth requests etc. (e.g. can you use project name + domain_id=None ?) | 18:22 |
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| samueldmq | henrynash: yes, so looks like there are others questions and corner cases to be thought | 18:23 |
| samueldmq | N is safer | 18:23 |
| samueldmq | imo | 18:23 |
| stevemar | i don't see the harm in adding it in M to keystone, but there is no rush | 18:23 |
| henrynash | samueldmq: agreed… I think this deserves extra thought | 18:24 |
| rodrigods | if it is the case, where it lands in M | 18:24 |
| rodrigods | and in the beginning of N everyone notices the design is wrong | 18:24 |
| rodrigods | its better to not rush than imo | 18:24 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: yes; my single point was that now, is_domain projects is just an alternate API to domains one | 18:24 |
| rodrigods | have been a while that i don't look the changes | 18:24 |
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| samueldmq | stevemar: but that's okay, it's a step anyways | 18:24 |
| david-lyle | ayoung ? | 18:25 |
| henrynash | samueldmq: it’s a huge step! | 18:25 |
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| bknudson | one small step for samueldmq, a giant leap for henrynash | 18:25 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: yes, I am not saying it wassn't something great | 18:25 |
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| samueldmq | henrynash: sorry didn't mean that :) | 18:25 |
| htruta | the basics of is_domain in token was tested a few weeks ago. But I do agree that we might be more careful on that | 18:25 |
| henrynash | bknudson: I can’r keep up with the real men…. | 18:25 |
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| raildo | I think it's a good idea discuss this topic with the phase 2 from reseller in a design session | 18:26 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: bknudson I meant it'd be still better, but not that it alone isn't good already :( | 18:26 |
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| henrynash | samueldmq: we know…we’re just ribbing you | 18:26 |
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| samueldmq | henrynash: :'( | 18:27 |
| StefanPaetowJisc | Awwwww | 18:27 |
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| ayoung | david-lyle, for examplem, Horizon really needs to only use password to get an unscoped token, then use that to get a scoped token, and then Keystone should defautl on the "unscoped to scoped only" rule | 18:27 |
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| samueldmq | stevemar: cool, so looks like we have an agreement, let's discuss more at the summit :) | 18:27 |
| samueldmq | and get this in N | 18:27 |
| ayoung | that has been there a few releases now. | 18:27 |
| henrynash | samueldmq: yep | 18:27 |
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| stevemar | samueldmq: good call | 18:27 |
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| ayoung | we have an explicit_unscoped flag | 18:28 |
| stevemar | no need to rush | 18:28 |
| stevemar | let's allow the storm that was mitaka-3 settle a little bit ;) | 18:28 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: ++ just would like to get more agreement and eyes on it :) | 18:28 |
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| htruta | stevemar: cascade operations is also punted to N, right? | 18:28 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: yes it ws, but we won | 18:28 |
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| samueldmq | htruta: yep; as anounced earlier by stevemar | 18:28 |
| stevemar | htruta: yep - couldn't come up with a good policy / authz for it | 18:28 |
| stevemar | htruta: all the work is there, just not the route | 18:29 |
| stevemar | htruta: it wasn't gating as of monday, so it didn't make the cut :( | 18:29 |
| gyee | ayoung, david-lyle, yeah the least privilege design came up a few times at yesterdays CSA Summit | 18:29 |
| StefanPaetowJisc | stevemar: probably stupid q; when does N open? | 18:29 |
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| htruta | stevemar: cool. That might be fast in N | 18:29 |
| htruta | is there any FFE ? | 18:29 |
| samueldmq | htruta: and safer, and better :) | 18:30 |
| stevemar | StefanPaetowJisc: should be soon! i don't have the exact day/time, but any week now | 18:30 |
| htruta | samueldmq: ++ | 18:30 |
| ayoung | gyee, have you hunted down nkinder yet? He's there | 18:30 |
| StefanPaetowJisc | Ok, ta | 18:30 |
| stevemar | StefanPaetowJisc: i think it's just after milestone-3 or just after rc-1, i always forget | 18:30 |
| gyee | ayoung, no, too many people there yesterday, room was full | 18:30 |
| stevemar | StefanPaetowJisc: the release managers do that for us :) | 18:31 |
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| stevemar | #topic open discussion | 18:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:31 | |
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| StefanPaetowJisc | Ok, will keep an eye on that re: my *ahem* request ;-) | 18:31 |
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| bknudson | what do you think about test refactoring during this rc phase? | 18:32 |
| ayoung | commit e8ac71f0360b88772044ac2638d161aa00ec5b55 | 18:32 |
| ayoung | Author: Adam Young <ayoung@redhat.com> | 18:32 |
| ayoung | Date: Wed Dec 17 12:40:54 2014 -0500 | 18:32 |
| gyee | stevemar, bknudson, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/277436, should I backout the v2 changes? | 18:32 |
| ayoung | wow | 18:32 |
| stevemar | bknudson: please do so! | 18:32 |
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| bknudson | I think samueldmq had some test refactoring lined up. | 18:32 |
| gyee | stevemar, bknudson, I thought correcting the return code is allowed, no? | 18:32 |
| stevemar | bknudson: i think samueldmq had some major test refactoring ready | 18:32 |
| stevemar | bknudson: yep.. | 18:32 |
| ayoung | http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/keystone/commit/?id=e8ac71f0360b88772044ac2638d161aa00ec5b55 david-lyle | 18:32 |
| bknudson | gyee: correcting return codes is not allowed. | 18:32 |
| bknudson | gyee: unless it was a 500 error | 18:32 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: bknudson yes, just need to rebase | 18:33 |
| gyee | alrighty then, I'll back out the v2 changes | 18:33 |
| samueldmq | it's the split of the huge test_backend.py | 18:33 |
| samueldmq | which now has up to 7k lines iirc | 18:33 |
| stevemar | samueldmq: nice :) | 18:33 |
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| stevemar | looking forward to it | 18:33 |
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| stevemar | we also released a new keystoneclient version: https://pypi.python.org/pypi/python-keystoneclient/2.3.1 , this should be the last one for M | 18:33 |
| bknudson | samueldmq: I've also got https://review.openstack.org/#/c/283822/ so maybe there's some overlap | 18:33 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: bknudson: I will rebase all that still this week | 18:33 |
| stevemar | bknudson: there is likely some overlap with samueldmq's work | 18:34 |
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| samueldmq | bknudson: nice, I will look at that too, and see if we're going through the same approach | 18:34 |
| stevemar | the rackers are quiet today :) | 18:35 |
| bknudson | the test_backend_* should be testing the driver and not the manager. | 18:35 |
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| samueldmq | dstanek: henrynash and I also discussed about where to put the new tests, we decided to put in (e.g) resource/test_backends.py | 18:36 |
| raildo | stevemar: lbragstad ayoung I believe that we can find a way to finish the fernet default token provider (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/258650/) on mitaka, we only have 8 failed tests, right now... | 18:36 |
| stevemar | bknudson: i'll go through a lot of the open changes today and -2 a bunch | 18:36 |
| samueldmq | bknudson: hmm, but yes that makes sense too, backends should test the drivers, tests for manager should have another name, I agree | 18:36 |
| samueldmq | bknudson: we can discuss more details in -keystone later :) | 18:36 |
| ayoung | raildo, raildo need the trust patch, too | 18:37 |
| stevemar | raildo: i'm in no rush to push, it's a default, a deployer can change what they don't want to use | 18:37 |
| ayoung | raildo, and..I need to get back to that...let's see | 18:37 |
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| stevemar | raildo: bugs only, and tests for the remainder of mitaka | 18:37 |
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| raildo | stevemar: hum.. got it, thanks :) | 18:37 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: will there be any release for ksclient yet ? | 18:38 |
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| stevemar | samueldmq: we just had one yesterday :) | 18:38 |
| stevemar | samueldmq: https://pypi.python.org/pypi/python-keystoneclient/2.3.1 | 18:38 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: oh, I will try to get some functional tests in | 18:38 |
| raildo | ayoung: if you want, I can help you :D | 18:38 |
| stevemar | the libraries are finalized at this point | 18:38 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: but that can easily come in the next cycle | 18:38 |
| ayoung | raildo, let me see if I can repro on my machine: | 18:38 |
| stevemar | samueldmq: go ahead, tests are more than welcomed, and encouraged at this point of the cycle | 18:39 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: we're already benefiting from it if it's on master anyways | 18:39 |
| stevemar | samueldmq: yep | 18:39 |
| StefanPaetowJisc | Switching devices... | 18:39 |
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| stevemar | tests and bug fixes should be the only things merging in all our repos for the next little while, until N opens | 18:39 |
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| * samueldmq still has a ton of work to do; he's commited to do a bunch of things this cycle :p | 18:40 | |
| ayoung | raildo, for example: tox -e py34 -- keystone.tests.unit.test_auth.FernetAuthWithTrust.test_delete_trust_revokes_token | 18:40 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: nice, thanks for clarifying | 18:40 |
| raildo | ayoung: running | 18:40 |
| ayoung | running testr | 18:40 |
| ayoung | db type could not be determined | 18:40 |
| ayoung | hmmm | 18:40 |
| stevemar | any other things to discuss? i think we're rambling on at this point :) | 18:40 |
| bknudson | ayoung: rm -r .testrepository | 18:40 |
| ayoung | bknudson, ah | 18:41 |
| ayoung | not just rebuild venv | 18:41 |
| stevemar | bknudson: =+ | 18:41 |
| stevemar | bknudson: ++ | 18:41 |
| stevemar | ayoung: yeah, if you run py27 before py34, there's a weird issue and you have to remove .testrepository | 18:41 |
| bknudson | I had a problem running py34 after py27 last time I tried | 18:41 |
| bknudson | gdbm wasn't installed or something | 18:42 |
| stevemar | if no one else has anything i think i'll stop the meeting here | 18:42 |
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| ayoung | I totally forgot we were having a meeting | 18:42 |
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| stevemar | ayoung: i'm just that memorable :) | 18:43 |
| stevemar | alright, let's go back to our home in -keystone | 18:43 |
| ayoung | stevemar, just getting work done... | 18:43 |
| stevemar | #endmeeting | 18:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:43 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 1 18:43:35 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:43 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-03-01-18.02.html | 18:43 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-03-01-18.02.txt | 18:43 |
| rderose | :) | 18:43 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-03-01-18.02.log.html | 18:43 |
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| samueldmq | thanks | 18:43 |
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| fungi | craige: that looks very detailed | 19:14 |
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| anteaya | woooo | 19:14 |
| fungi | oh, we have meetbot back | 19:14 |
| fungi | just a sec while i rewind all those for the log | 19:14 |
| fungi | #startmeeting infra | 19:15 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 1 19:15:04 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:15 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:15 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:15 |
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| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:15 |
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| fungi | #topic Announcements | 19:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:15 | |
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| fungi | #info Huge thanks to crinkle, yolanda, rcarrillocruz, greghaynes, nibalizer, SpamapS and jeblair for their hard work and planning on infra-cloud prior to our event last week. | 19:15 |
| fungi | #info Thanks to pleia2, jhesketh, wendar, purp and Hewlett-Packard Enterprise for logistics/sponsoring of the infra-cloud sprint. | 19:15 |
| fungi | #info Also thanks to HPE and IBM for picking up the group tab at dinner a couple nights in beautiful Fort Collins. | 19:15 |
| fungi | #link http://princessleia.com/journal/?p=11335 pleia2's awesome event summary | 19:15 |
| fungi | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:15 | |
| fungi | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-02-16-19.03.html | 19:15 |
| fungi | "1. (none)" | 19:15 |
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| fungi | #topic Specs approval | 19:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:15 | |
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| fungi | nothing new this week | 19:15 |
| fungi | #topic Priority Efforts: maniphest migration (craige) | 19:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts: maniphest migration (craige) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:15 | |
| fungi | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/maniphest-migration Created the maniphest-migration etherpad to track issues and progress | 19:15 |
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| fungi | okay, now we're caught up | 19:16 |
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| fungi | craige: that looks nice and detailed | 19:16 |
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| fungi | craige: anything specific you need to call out on that list you need help with next? | 19:16 |
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| fungi | i'm taking the silence here as a "no" | 19:18 |
| fungi | i guess we can come back to this one if craige returns | 19:18 |
| jhesketh | fungi: craige was after a new db dump but not sure if he got it yet | 19:18 |
| fungi | craige: get up with one of our infra-root admins to get you an updated database dump | 19:18 |
| fungi | #topic Stackviz deployment options (timothyb89, austin81) | 19:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Stackviz deployment options (timothyb89, austin81) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:19 | |
| fungi | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/BKgWlKIjgQ | 19:19 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/279317 | 19:19 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/212207 | 19:19 |
| fungi | care to catch us up on the current state there? | 19:19 |
| timothyb89 | sure, basically, we're looking for some high-level feedback on the two linked patches | 19:19 |
| anteaya | the both have wip in the title of the commit message | 19:20 |
| timothyb89 | our goal is to get stackviz running during gate cleanup, and we're hoping that what we've got can accomplish that without impacting anything else | 19:20 |
| AJaeger | timothyb89: what is stackviz and what makes it that special? | 19:20 |
| anteaya | would you care to remove that in case they gather enough reviews to be merged? | 19:20 |
| austin81 | anteaya: Sure, we just wanted to make sure they were in a close-to-merge state first | 19:21 |
| * AJaeger misses the context for this | 19:21 | |
| timothyb89 | stackviz is a visualization utility for tempest runs | 19:21 |
| fungi | probably what's special is that they want to have it run in/after every devstack-based job | 19:21 |
| greghaynes | I think there is a freenode split which is killing our meeting, FYI | 19:21 |
| timothyb89 | for example, https://stackviz.timothyb89.org/s/5a325c4c-be4d-463f-b282-c313c0d987b0/#/ | 19:21 |
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| fungi | oh, or maybe just the ones that use tempest at least | 19:21 |
| greghaynes | some folks are complaining about "meeting is silent" in another channel | 19:21 |
| anteaya | greghaynes: which channel? | 19:21 |
| greghaynes | a private one | 19:22 |
| anteaya | greghaynes: I thought I had checked them all | 19:22 |
| * craige returns | 19:22 | |
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| fungi | a meeting in a private channel? weird | 19:22 |
| AJaeger | So, stackviz just visualizes tempest runs? | 19:22 |
| timothyb89 | AJaeger: currently, yes, and hopefully other items in the future | 19:22 |
| AJaeger | a meeting in a private channel where they miss logging? Really weird | 19:22 |
| bkero | We think it's a netsplit | 19:22 |
| austin81 | AJaeger: It's primary purpose is to help devs get to the root of the problem when their patch fails and see what caused it | 19:23 |
| greghaynes | heh ;) in a social channel, just wanted to let youall know the likely reason for the silence | 19:23 |
| pabelanger | without diving into stackviz, I feel moving it out of dib elements and into puppet-stackviz is more inline with how we manage dependencies. | 19:23 |
| anteaya | line 7 and 8 of the etherpad has demo links | 19:23 |
| pabelanger | that's my only real comments atm | 19:23 |
| greghaynes | pabelanger: is the goal to bake this in to our test images? | 19:23 |
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| timothyb89 | pabelanger: would moving it into a puppet module still allow it to run on build nodes? | 19:24 |
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| bkero | nibz: wb | 19:24 |
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| pabelanger | greghaynes: I am not sure the goal to be honest | 19:24 |
| anteaya | I really like the details page: https://static.timothyb89.org/stackviz/#/0/timeline | 19:24 |
| greghaynes | pabelanger: ok. Asking because the future for images we buld is more dib less puppet AFAIK | 19:24 |
| fungi | we do have a longer-term goal of possibly dropping image-build-time puppet from our workers since we're in teh process of drastically simplifying what puppet does for us on them | 19:24 |
| pabelanger | timothyb89: yes, we manage all of our jenkins slave mostly with puppet, which runs after we do image builds | 19:24 |
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| pabelanger | greghaynes: right. but this would be the first time where we don't manage with puppet. Just confirming if we are okay with that | 19:25 |
| greghaynes | pabelanger: ah, good question to ask | 19:25 |
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| timothyb89 | so, our requirements are to build our repository, and then make the output available on build nodes during devstack-gate host cleanup - would that be possible to do with puppet? | 19:25 |
| fungi | i'm curious why this isn't baked into devstack | 19:26 |
| fungi | it seems like a natural fit | 19:26 |
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| fungi | e.g. add a script to the devstack libs dir which pulls in and sets up stackvis before you run tempest | 19:26 |
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| fungi | er, stackviz | 19:27 |
| timothyb89 | fungi: that's been discussed before, but I believe the verdict was that it made more sense for performance to do it during image build | 19:27 |
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| timothyb89 | the build process is fairly time consuming so we wanted to cache the output | 19:27 |
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| fungi | setup takes a while then? would add too much run-time repetition to devstack? | 19:27 |
| timothyb89 | it takes ~10 minutes | 19:27 |
| nibz | is that because of npm install? | 19:27 |
| timothyb89 | nibz: yes | 19:28 |
| austin81 | nibz: yup | 19:28 |
| fungi | ahh, okay, i recall you saying something about it pulling reference data from our subunit2sql database? | 19:28 |
| greghaynes | install? or js minimizing/lint? | 19:28 |
| timothyb89 | greghaynes: all of the above | 19:28 |
| nibz | we didn't deploy npm mirrors yet? or did we? | 19:28 |
| timothyb89 | fungi: its similar to subunit2sql, but it reads test repositories directly | 19:28 |
| greghaynes | the typical pattern for solving that is to make a package OOB from installation, so installation happens quickly... | 19:28 |
| fungi | okay, so npm-provided dependencies are the time-consuming part | 19:29 |
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| timothyb89 | fungi: yes, exactly | 19:29 |
| fungi | and yeah, being able to pre-cache your node.js deps locally isn't an option? you need to fully install them on the worker images? | 19:29 |
| AJaeger | Having reviewed earlier https://review.openstack.org/#/c/279317 - that did not include any reference on other patches or what stackviz what doing - I was very confused. | 19:29 |
| * AJaeger is now getting more what you intent to do - and suggest you write a spec for this | 19:30 | |
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| bkero | They should be cacheable in ~/.npm/$PACKAGE/$VER/ | 19:30 |
| fungi | timothyb89: how do you see this potentially interacting with other job payloads that use packages from npm? is there good sandboxing/isolation in node.js to prevent cross-dependency interactions? | 19:30 |
| timothyb89 | fungi: afaik node dependencies are local to the directory you run 'npm install' from | 19:31 |
| nibz | fungi: yes, npm install creates a dir node_modules where you run it | 19:31 |
| greghaynes | fungi: I am still unclear if its just installing deps or js minimization (apparently its both?) | 19:31 |
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| greghaynes | fungi: since those two need to be solved differently | 19:31 |
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| timothyb89 | greghaynes: it does both, we need to install the dependencies required to run the build process | 19:31 |
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| fungi | okay, so it's preinstalling rather than simply caching, but inherent isolation with npm in theory makes that safe | 19:31 |
| timothyb89 | greghaynes: it's basically 2 commands: 'npm install' and then 'gulp prod' to build | 19:31 |
| greghaynes | timothyb89: yea, but I am curious which one consumes most of the time | 19:32 |
| anteaya | umm meetbot seems to be taking the helm regarding the topic | 19:32 |
| austin81 | greghaynes: npm install by far | 19:32 |
| greghaynes | austin81: ah, ty | 19:32 |
| timothyb89 | greghaynes: 'npm install' is the time consuming one, 'gulp prod' takes maybe 15 seconds | 19:32 |
| bkero | npm caches things in ~/.npm, and if not there it fetches it from the internet | 19:32 |
| greghaynes | timothyb89: awesome | 19:32 |
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| fungi | leguin apparently unsplit and reset our topic, but that's fine | 19:32 |
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| bkero | So if you throw them in there they should be immutable, useful, and fast | 19:32 |
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| fungi | it'll get updated on next topic change unless something goes terribly wrong with the meetbot | 19:32 |
| fungi | timothyb89: so is most of the time in npm install spend downloading, or unpacking/building? | 19:33 |
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| timothyb89 | bkero: npm may cache things, but the install process is still time consuming because it will check remotely to verify package versions | 19:33 |
| austin81 | AJaeger: So with your added context, what do you think of https://review.openstack.org/#/c/279317 now? | 19:33 |
| timothyb89 | fungi: downloading | 19:33 |
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| AJaeger | austin81: Please write a spec ;) | 19:34 |
| fungi | timothyb89: so in that case, if we pre-cache them it should speed that up tremendously? or are you saying that it's actually the link checking/remote indexing which is the time-consuming part of the download process? | 19:34 |
| AJaeger | austin81: with the questions here, there's too much unknown and unusual going on, so we should document this properly | 19:35 |
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| timothyb89 | fungi: in my experience, pre-caching npm packages doesn't help much, you have to run a full 'npm install' on the project directory to see a real benefit | 19:35 |
| fungi | yeah, i'm mostly trying to nail down what aspect of this makes it necessary to fully install components into the workers when it will only be used by a subset of jobs | 19:35 |
| austin81 | AJaeger: Absolutley. Any helpful links to get us started? | 19:35 |
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| AJaeger | austin81: see the infra-specs repository | 19:36 |
| fungi | since that seems to be a major part of the design thrust | 19:36 |
| anteaya | #link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/infra-specs/tree/template.rst | 19:36 |
| fungi | #link https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/infra-specs/tree/README.rst | 19:36 |
| fungi | has instructions | 19:36 |
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| AJaeger | thanks fungi and anteaya for the links | 19:37 |
| anteaya | AJaeger: welcome | 19:37 |
| fungi | timothyb89: i'm also wondering if the npm install phase gets considerably faster when krotscheck's npm mirrors get deployed | 19:37 |
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| austin81 | fungi, anteaya: Thanks guys. | 19:37 |
| timothyb89 | fungi: I think it would! | 19:37 |
| anteaya | <-- female | 19:38 |
| anteaya | and you are welcome | 19:38 |
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| ianw | fwiw i'd also like to see a spec, because we've gone through having in devstack, having a specialised worker, installing via nodepool, but now have better mirroring infrastructure and other options around puppet | 19:38 |
| austin81 | anteaya: My mistake :) | 19:38 |
| fungi | because we have jobs already which npm install a lot of stuff (horizon functional test, i'm looking at you) which make improving that experience during job run-time imperative anyway | 19:38 |
| anteaya | austin81: no worries | 19:38 |
| * david-lyle blushes | 19:38 | |
| timothyb89 | a proper spec seems like a good plan :) | 19:38 |
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| austin81 | I think we've taken up enough of yalls time? Thanks for all the help | 19:39 |
| fungi | sounds great--thanks timothyb89, austin81! | 19:39 |
| timothyb89 | thanks everyone! | 19:39 |
| fungi | #topic Spec review : dib from git for nodepool (ianw / 2016-03-01) | 19:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Spec review : dib from git for nodepool (ianw / 2016-03-01) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:39 | |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/283877 | 19:39 |
| ianw | just a request for review on this spec, i don't have much to say that isn't in the spec | 19:39 |
| fungi | what's the current contention on this one? | 19:40 |
| anteaya | david-lyle: thanks for sharing | 19:40 |
| anteaya | :) | 19:40 |
| fungi | oh, i see. new spec just as most of our reviewers disappeared to spring on infra-cloud | 19:40 |
| nibalizer | ianw: i haven't read this but ill add it to the list | 19:40 |
| ianw | there was some contention in the reviews that the extra flag was not great | 19:40 |
| jeblair | i confess, i'm surprised | 19:41 |
| greghaynes | fungi: The fear I would have is the general tightly-coupled projects issue, rather than nodepool breaking when someone who releases is around itll be whenever we merge something | 19:41 |
| fungi | so this goes back to the conversation we were having a couple weeks ago about whether or not installing dib from git vs having to wait for a dib release to have new features in image builds was desirable | 19:41 |
| greghaynes | which is fine by me, but its something the folks who run nodepool should be aware of | 19:41 |
| jeblair | why is dib changing so fast this matters? | 19:41 |
| greghaynes | jeblair: mostly fedora releases IME | 19:41 |
| mordred | I'm not crazy about running from git on projects that infra-core does not have +2 on | 19:41 |
| jeblair | is dib encoding too much image building logic in itself? | 19:41 |
| fungi | it sounded like there was disdain at the up-to-several-day wait times for dib to tag a new release | 19:41 |
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| jeblair | fungi: yeah, but i feel like i expected dib to be a mostly static dependency | 19:42 |
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| ianw | i don't know if distain is the word, but it can really slow things down | 19:42 |
| mordred | there are some elements we use | 19:42 |
| ianw | jeblair: it is, until it isn't ... especially if you're brining up something new | 19:42 |
| mordred | like simple-init | 19:42 |
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| mordred | that are in the dib repo | 19:42 |
| jeblair | for me the problem is not that it doesn't change fast enough, but rather that it changes at all | 19:42 |
| mordred | and if we need to update it - it means that we have to update it in dib and then get a release | 19:42 |
| fungi | infra-specific needs should probably be in our nodepool elements rather than wrapped up in dib's default element set, yeah? | 19:42 |
| mordred | well | 19:42 |
| jeblair | ianw: could we solve this with better dib testing? | 19:42 |
| mordred | but simple-init and ubuntu-miniaml are generally applicable elements | 19:43 |
| mordred | we just happen to be their primary user, so we find the errors before other people | 19:43 |
| greghaynes | I don't think we have ever really had any desire for new dib changes beyond 1) random bugfix which IME isnt too common 2) something were not in a rush to get or 3) new distro release which is what we seem to hit a lot | 19:43 |
| ianw | jeblair: better dib testing will not hurt. but when you've fixed an issue, and then it takes literally up to a week to get out there, it can be a real pain | 19:43 |
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| fungi | so i guess the real push here is to find a way to be able to consume fixes for issues in dib elements more quickly? | 19:44 |
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| jeblair | ianw: right, so i'm thinking a change of focus: it's *dib* that should support a new distro release, and we should find a way to make that work happen in dib | 19:44 |
| greghaynes | jeblair: ianw re: better dib testing - I think testing of the images infra builds would help with this a lot, especially if we can test dib from git in those tests | 19:44 |
| jeblair | greghaynes: yeah, so maybe if we put a job on dib that builds the images specified in project-config? | 19:44 |
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| ianw | we are working on that | 19:44 |
| greghaynes | jeblair: or a job in project-config? | 19:44 |
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| fungi | is simply building them sufficient, or do we need to try to boot and exercise them to turn up most of the errors in question? | 19:44 |
| jeblair | greghaynes: i think we wanted that too | 19:45 |
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| fungi | mostly curious where the split between build-time and boot-time falls for the bulk of the issues encountered | 19:45 |
| jeblair | fungi: good q | 19:45 |
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| ianw | when you're bringing up a new platform, a lot of the issues are build time | 19:46 |
| greghaynes | As for dib testing - theres a large patch series I have been getting slowly merged about adding more functional testing, the issue we seem to hit most often is integration between dib and services it installs (simple-init being the great example) | 19:46 |
| greghaynes | which is harder to test in dib | 19:46 |
| ianw | for stable platforms, not so much | 19:46 |
| ianw | but if you get a change into project-config, it is there on the next build | 19:47 |
| fungi | my primary concern with this suggestion is that we're trading bugs in new stuff we want to try but take time to get working for potentially hitting more bugs in stuff we already rely on | 19:47 |
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| ianw | but once a change is in dib, it's not like it gets any more testing until release | 19:48 |
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| greghaynes | the main thing holding back the fuctional dib testing is just work hours, but I also worry it won't help us as much as we want since those tests are good at determining if a build can succeed and if it can boot, but not so much 'does glean run at the correct time to set up networking' | 19:48 |
| fungi | of course, my theory is based on the (possibly baseless) assumption that dib releases get more testing than just merged commits in master | 19:48 |
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| ianw | fungi: that is kind of my point, as described in the spec | 19:50 |
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| hashar | hello o/ | 19:50 |
| abregman | hello \o | 19:50 |
| jeblair | i don't want nodepool to be the last line of dib's ci | 19:50 |
| dougwig | greghaynes: just throwing this out there, but octavia jobs use dib from master to build their service vms, boot them, and then do load balancy tests through them. they've been fairly breaky due to that, and might be a reasonable short-term stand in for functional tests. | 19:50 |
| jeblair | i agree about the problem, but i'd like the solution to head the other direction | 19:50 |
| fungi | so on the issue of consuming unreleased code of deps not maintained by infra-core, i suppose that concern is also driven by an assumption that dib releases are better tested than dib's master branch state at any given point in time? | 19:51 |
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| greghaynes | dougwig: Yea, we have some dib tests which build and boot images and ping them, but theres a hard question of to what level dib should be testing the services it installs (since dib's just is really just to install them) | 19:51 |
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| fungi | or is it that we can more easily downgrade to an earlier dib release if a new one is broken, but figuring out what arbitrary commit to pin ourselves to is harder? | 19:51 |
| greghaynes | fungi: They arent better tested, no | 19:51 |
| greghaynes | My main concern as dib-core would be firefighting | 19:52 |
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| greghaynes | I try to release when I am around to solve issues | 19:52 |
| greghaynes | but I don't necessarially merge with that mindset | 19:52 |
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| ianw | nodepool is quite tolerant to failures, and many of us watch the builds | 19:52 |
| greghaynes | fungi: er, sorry, thery *arent | 19:52 |
| fungi | so release time is a controlled breakage window, as opposed to having to be careful not to merge a change unless you're around to see whether it breaks your downstream consumers | 19:52 |
| greghaynes | yep | 19:53 |
| ianw | i'd say it's better for us to fix any issue that affects nodepool the day after it hits, rather than wait until more changes are behind it | 19:53 |
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| fungi | that definitely turns nodepool into a post-merge ci test of dib though | 19:53 |
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| jeblair | perhaps what mordred was getting at was an expansion of dib-core to include nodepool-core to mitigate that | 19:53 |
| mordred | yah | 19:53 |
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| fungi | that's worth bringing up to the tripleo team i guess | 19:54 |
| mordred | that's my concern - not being able to react swiftly to a production outage | 19:54 |
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| mordred | if we're running from pip, we can always pin back at a previous pip revision if a release happens that breaks the world | 19:54 |
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| mordred | now - it's image builders | 19:54 |
| mordred | so breaking isn't QUITE breaking the gate | 19:54 |
| mordred | and there is more buffer | 19:54 |
| greghaynes | Its a good thing to talk about, dib *really* needs more cores. I don't know how wide infra-core is so that might be a bit overkill | 19:54 |
| fungi | but it _can_ be if the issue is one which causes a run-time problem rather than build-time/boot-time | 19:55 |
| mordred | greghaynes: there's 8 of us right now | 19:55 |
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| mordred | plus ianw on nodepool-core | 19:55 |
| jeblair | what i want is for dib to be solid and unchanging. if that's not possible, then if we are going to consider tighter integration, i think we need to consider *much* tighter integration. like, shared cores and shared change queues so we have working cross-testing. | 19:55 |
| fungi | though in that case we have the option of deleting the current images if we catch it within a day | 19:55 |
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| greghaynes | I feel like dib has been pretty solid everywhere except adding new features which infra wants, which is something that can't be solved dib side | 19:55 |
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| greghaynes | specifically supporting new dristros | 19:56 |
| ianw | jeblair: definitely better testing, and as mentioned, focus for dib currently. but speed of working with infra is not always great, and this can be a pain point | 19:56 |
| greghaynes | mordred: Yea, so we should bring that up, I am pretty sure I would be +1 on that | 19:57 |
| ianw | especially for new distros | 19:57 |
| ianw | anyway, maybe it's just me :) not sure what other distros are being worked on | 19:57 |
| jeblair | ianw: yeah, which is why i think the solution is to not do all of this work in openstack's production nodepool. get it out on the edges in dib. | 19:57 |
| fungi | also, we're down to 2 minutes, so i'm going to need to punt the last several agenda topics to next week. i hope that's okay pabelanger, yorkisar, zaro, AJaeger? if not, we can try to cover stuff in #-infra between now and next week | 19:58 |
| jeblair | at least, the *ideal* solution :) | 19:58 |
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| AJaeger | fungi, I'll paste my prepared lines to #openstack-infra ;) | 19:58 |
| pabelanger | all good here | 19:58 |
| ianw | sorry, didn't expect so much conversation on that :) | 19:58 |
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| fungi | so... nodepool-dev where we run the same config as production but with master dib instead of releases? | 19:58 |
| greghaynes | Yea, I think I didn't word it too correctly, dib should definitely be sure that a newly supported distro works, but using a new distro as a downstream consumer will always be a matter of pulling in some change so there has to be some level of integration testing | 19:58 |
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| fungi | nodepool does have namespacing for its alien cleanup now, so in theory production and dev can share an environment as long as we tweak max-servers to accommodate a small slice of quota dedicated to dev | 19:59 |
| jeblair | i wasn't suggesting that | 19:59 |
| jeblair | and i don't like the idea of maintaining 2 nodepools | 19:59 |
| jeblair | one is hard enough | 20:00 |
| fungi | i know, i was throwing out another idea between drinking from the firehost in production and only being able to use dib releases | 20:00 |
| fungi | anyway, we're out of time, but can continue in the review or #-infra | 20:00 |
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| fungi | thanks everybody! | 20:00 |
| fungi | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 1 20:00:45 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-03-01-19.15.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-03-01-19.15.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-03-01-19.15.log.html | 20:00 |
| ttx | o/ | 20:00 |
| mestery | o/ | 20:00 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:00 |
| fungi | sorry ttx, all yours now | 20:00 |
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| mordred | o/ | 20:01 |
| jeblair | o/ | 20:01 |
| russellb | hi | 20:01 |
| ttx | fungi: you were not really late :) | 20:01 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | annegentle, lifeless, dtroyer, markmcclain, jaypipes, sdague: around ? | 20:01 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:01 |
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| markmcclain | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:01 |
| jaypipes | o/ | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 1 20:01:47 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| abregman | o/ | 20:01 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:01 |
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| ttx | Good $timeofday everyone | 20:02 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 20:02 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:02 |
| ttx | #topic Add a "stable:follows-policy" tag | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add a "stable:follows-policy" tag (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
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| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/277918 | 20:02 |
| * edleafe hides in the shadows | 20:02 | |
| * rockyg squeezes into the back of the room | 20:02 | |
| ttx | So this is a tag that the stable maintenance team can use to certify that a given deliverable stable branches are following the common stable branch policy | 20:02 |
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| * sridhar_ram1 lurks | 20:02 | |
| ttx | That is made necessary because in the big tent there are a lot of stable/* branches that do not really follow policy those days | 20:02 |
| ttx | (and we still want to call them stable/* for other reasons) | 20:03 |
| ttx | So it is a pretty important piece of information to communicate to those who consume our deliverables | 20:03 |
| ttx | missing a few votes | 20:03 |
| ttx | I think mriedem addressed anne's remark | 20:03 |
| ttx | questions ? | 20:03 |
| sdague | lgtm | 20:03 |
| flaper87 | lgtm | 20:03 |
| * dhellmann wonders if we want to start migrating to series/* instead of stable/* | 20:04 | |
| ttx | dhellmann: there are lots of things that encode stable/* | 20:04 |
| dhellmann | yeah | 20:04 |
| sdague | dhellmann: there would be a pretty big cost to all our tooling for that | 20:04 |
| ttx | (hardcode) | 20:04 |
| ttx | dhellmann: but yes you are right, that's what it means today, hence the need for the tag | 20:04 |
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| * thingee lurks | 20:04 | |
| jeblair | still something about this seems wrong | 20:04 |
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| jeblair | i don't like a tag that says something follows a policy | 20:04 |
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| amrith | hello ... is this the TC meeting? (https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee) | 20:05 |
| russellb | amitry: yes. | 20:05 |
| flaper87 | amrith: yes | 20:05 |
| russellb | oops. | 20:05 |
| dhellmann | jeblair : we have the tag for following the deprecation policy, too. isn't this the same? | 20:05 |
| mestery | dhellmann: ++ | 20:05 |
| thingee | dhellmann: +1 | 20:05 |
| sdague | remembering the 3 weeks of trying to get the ceilometer grenade bits into a passing state because gnocchi had a custom branch structure | 20:05 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: slightly different, the other one is an assertion by the project itself | 20:05 |
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| jaypipes | jeblair: isn't that what the assert:XXX tags are? | 20:06 |
| jaypipes | kinda? :) | 20:06 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I suppose that's a reasonable distinction to make. | 20:06 |
| ttx | here the stable team grants it, so it is indeed a bit of a carrot/stick for the stable team to encourage policy following | 20:06 |
| ttx | not sure that is what jeblair objects to | 20:06 |
| jeblair | the reason we hardcoded stable in many places was because it meant the same thing | 20:07 |
| sdague | honestly, the stable team job is one of the more thankless jobs out there. If they feel this helps them accomplish it, I'm all for it. | 20:07 |
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| ttx | jeblair: currently in infra it means "series" | 20:07 |
| dtroyer | o/ | 20:07 |
| ttx | sdague: ++ | 20:07 |
| flaper87 | sdague: ++ | 20:07 |
| annegentl_ | sdague: yep | 20:07 |
| jeblair | why not say "stable/" means this thing, and if you do something that doesn't mean that, call your branch something else? | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | yeah, we have a conflict between the way it has ended up being used and the way it was intended to be used | 20:07 |
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| ttx | jeblair: I proposed that but that would break a lot of things apparently | 20:08 |
| jaypipes | jeblair: I could definitely get behind that. | 20:08 |
| jeblair | ttx: what does it break? | 20:08 |
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| dhellmann | could we rename existing branches? | 20:08 |
| ttx | jeblair: I think I raised it at an infra meeting and you shot it down | 20:08 |
| jeblair | at least i'm consistent ;) | 20:08 |
| flaper87 | lol | 20:08 |
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| sdague | I also think the lever there is weird | 20:08 |
| jeblair | ttx: i'm still trying to understand this though | 20:08 |
| ttx | jeblair: if not you, maybe fungi | 20:09 |
| jeblair | (i'm exploring, not advocating) | 20:09 |
| sdague | because project/foo thinks they are following stable branch policy | 20:09 |
| dhellmann | we have 3 types of stable branches: actually stable, using stable/$series for convenience, and using stable/$version | 20:09 |
| sdague | so they have stable/mitaka | 20:09 |
| sdague | stable maint team notices they aren't | 20:09 |
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| sdague | stable maint team has authority to delete project/foo stable/mitaka branch? | 20:09 |
| flaper87 | It'd be better for stable/* to actually be stable, fwiw. | 20:10 |
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| dhellmann | so yeah, even if we don't rename things we want to give the stable team a flag to say "yes, we agree that this is stable" | 20:10 |
| jeblair | maybe instead of deleting the branch, we remove the project | 20:10 |
| sdague | dhellmann: right, which is that | 20:10 |
| sdague | jeblair: o_O | 20:10 |
| flaper87 | not all projects must follow the stable policy | 20:10 |
| sdague | the only project we've removed before was one that was dead for 2 cycles | 20:10 |
| ttx | as if we could remove a project | 20:10 |
| dhellmann | jeblair : rename to openstack-not-actually-stable/$project ? | 20:10 |
| fungi | i think i didn't so much object, as express that devstack-gate's current branch mapping would get waaaay more complex if you needed to try to assert that your stable/1.3.0 or foo/bar branch should be tested against stable/liberty of some other project | 20:10 |
| annegentl_ | wobbly/1.1.0 | 20:10 |
| sdague | right, I don't believe removing a project is a thing that actually exists as a TC power | 20:10 |
| ttx | fungi: right | 20:11 |
| dhellmann | annegentl_ : ++ | 20:11 |
| jeblair | fungi: absolutely | 20:11 |
| russellb | sure it is | 20:11 |
| russellb | (removing a project) | 20:11 |
| jeblair | sdague: oh it definitely does | 20:11 |
| jeblair | if we can add, we can remove | 20:11 |
| russellb | we just never do it | 20:11 |
| sdague | ok, I'll believe it when it happens | 20:11 |
| jaypipes | stable-but-having-experimental-feature-backports/$project is too long of a branch name. | 20:11 |
| russellb | heh, right | 20:11 |
| dhellmann | sdague : I think he just means as an official project, not from gerrit? | 20:11 |
| ttx | I'm not saying this can't be implemented differently, I'm just saying a tag is the most convenient way to fix it for now | 20:11 |
| dhellmann | jaypipes : abbreviate it? | 20:11 |
| jaypipes | dhellmann: :) | 20:11 |
| jeblair | to try to get back onto the topic -- | 20:11 |
| sdague | dhellmann: it is an un-unit tested piece of policy | 20:11 |
| flaper87 | I like the tag as an immediate solution | 20:11 |
| fungi | the last time i remember it coming up was when some project (maybe an oslo lib) wanted more than one stable/x.y.z that would cross-test against a specific stable branch of other repos in devstack | 20:11 |
| flaper87 | if we find a better solution, we can always remove the tag | 20:11 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I agree. I think we want this tag regardless, because there's the "we're trying to be stable" state to consider. | 20:11 |
| ttx | and I'd like to fix it now before we cut stable/mitaka all around | 20:11 |
| ttx | starting tomorrow | 20:12 |
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| jeblair | the thing that's sticking with me is that we're giving our users an inconsistent story | 20:12 |
| flaper87 | I like the idea of renaming fake stable branches, fwiw | 20:12 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 20:12 |
| annegentl_ | jeblair: or is it quality checking for truth? | 20:12 |
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| mordred | it's bad enough that people think that "stable/liberty" is some how "more hardend" | 20:12 |
| ttx | jeblair: I get your point. I think we can fix it better tomorrow, but it's more work | 20:12 |
| jeblair | we're saying "stable/*" may or may not be stable | 20:12 |
| annegentl_ | jeblair: I mean, I see it either way, yeah. | 20:12 |
| flaper87 | jeblair: it's inconsistent now, anyway. The benefit of this tag is that it's provided by a team we trust | 20:12 |
| mordred | rather than "has a different policy for landing patches" | 20:12 |
| sdague | jeblair: we are admitting the truth | 20:12 |
| mordred | but as soon as we even step away from _that_ with things that have the openstack title on it | 20:13 |
| ttx | If we decide to replace the tag with some ownership of a branch space, we can do that another day | 20:13 |
| sdague | because the truth is stable/* may or may not be that today, which is what triggered it | 20:13 |
| ttx | But I expect that would run into a lot of implementation issues | 20:13 |
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| sdague | so, step 1 - acknowledge the state of the world, write it down | 20:13 |
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| ttx | like... projects can create branches | 20:13 |
| russellb | sdague: ++ | 20:13 |
| dhellmann | right, it would be useful to be able to declare what is actually stable and then go through the exercise of fixing the things that aren't | 20:13 |
| sdague | step 2 - figure out how you want to change it | 20:13 |
| flaper87 | I also proposed in the review that we could find a way to tag each stable branch individually | 20:13 |
| ttx | sdague: yep, baby steps | 20:13 |
| flaper87 | but again, I think the current proposal is fine for now | 20:14 |
| flaper87 | and we should evolve from there | 20:14 |
| mestery | Nicely put sdague, +1 | 20:14 |
| jeblair | sdague: sure, i'm just more aspirational and would like us to describe what we want things to be, rather than to follow the project and try to clean things up behind it. | 20:14 |
| jeblair | i typed that a while ago | 20:14 |
| jeblair | sdague: i guess i'm jumping to step 2 :) | 20:14 |
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| ttx | OK, let's approve step 1 and then someone can propose step 2 | 20:15 |
| sdague | jeblair: right, and if stable maint wasn't already such a giant thankless job, that would be fine | 20:15 |
| flaper87 | Ideally, I'd like each stable branch to actually be stable and follow the stable policy but that's not the goal right now | 20:15 |
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| sdague | but I think it needs a lot more people piled into helping on stable maint before step 2 is doable | 20:15 |
| ttx | I agree with that long-term goal | 20:15 |
| jeblair | sdague: yeah. i don't think a -1 from me will help step 2 happen. | 20:15 |
| ttx | sdague: exxxactlk | 20:15 |
| ttx | y | 20:15 |
| sdague | jeblair: right | 20:15 |
| ttx | ok, let's move on | 20:15 |
| ttx | we have 9 YES | 20:16 |
| ttx | jeblair: want to write down your aspirational next step on the review before I approve ? | 20:16 |
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| annegentl_ | jeblair: ayup | 20:16 |
| jeblair | ttx: done | 20:16 |
| ttx | alrighty approved | 20:17 |
| ttx | #topic Clarify test-only license requirements | 20:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Clarify test-only license requirements (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:17 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/279999 | 20:17 |
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| ttx | So this is definitely a good clarification to add, and it now has enough votes to be approved | 20:17 |
| ttx | do we have lifeless around | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | I'd like lifeless to expand on his point, if we have a minute for that? | 20:17 |
| ttx | lifeless mentions that this does not help with Scapy (being considered at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/277893/) | 20:18 |
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| dhellmann | because even with this clarification, I'm not comfortable approving gpl additions to the requirements list | 20:18 |
| ttx | I suspect his argument being we can't import libraries without creating derivative work, be it test-time or run-time code ? | 20:18 |
| ttx | dhellmann: right, or leaving MySQL-python in | 20:18 |
| dhellmann | right | 20:18 |
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| ttx | It appears to still be used in trove: | 20:19 |
| ttx | http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/trove/tree/requirements.txt#n38 | 20:19 |
| ttx | Although I couldn't find an import so it might just be a leftover | 20:19 |
| dhellmann | did you look in oslo.db? | 20:19 |
| mordred | I do not htink lifeless point is relevant | 20:19 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I'd say that the clarification is still a clarification, although it doesn't really clarify whether test-only deps are ok | 20:19 |
| dhellmann | mordred : not relevant to this, or not relevant to the patch adding scapy to the requirements list? | 20:20 |
| mordred | the license terms are about terms for cpoying | 20:20 |
| mordred | not relevant to the patch adding scapy | 20:20 |
| mordred | I do not think that openstack projects using scapy in testing produces any license violations | 20:20 |
| mordred | imho | 20:20 |
| dhellmann | ok, I'm not really worried about that case per se | 20:20 |
| ttx | mordred: that is where I was too | 20:20 |
| dhellmann | I'm worried about the fact that we have no way to enforce it going further than that | 20:20 |
| dims | mordred : yes, if it's in the base infrastructure itself. not in the project requirements | 20:20 |
| jeblair | mordred: i agree (regardless of where you fall on the import==derivative question) | 20:21 |
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| sdague | mordred: I would agree, we don't however have any mechanism for keeping things out of requirements.txt once it's in global-requirements.txt | 20:21 |
| ttx | I think that's another discussion though. Difficult to have without lifeless to sustain his argument | 20:21 |
| sdague | gr had been a bit more of a firewall up until this point | 20:21 |
| mordred | I think if people have not read the recent article by eben related to the ubuntu+zfs case | 20:21 |
| mordred | you should | 20:21 |
| ttx | sdague: taht's another technical issue | 20:21 |
| mordred | because eben makes some REALLY execellent points hwich are analogously relevant here | 20:21 |
| sdague | I'm still +2 on that, but it's a thing people concerned about this should raise | 20:21 |
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| annegentl_ | mordred: linkety? | 20:22 |
| ttx | OK, I propose we approve this and raise that discussion on another forum, like legal-discuss, with lifeless around | 20:22 |
| flaper87 | ttx: ++ | 20:22 |
| annegentl_ | ttx: sounds good | 20:22 |
| mordred | https://www.softwarefreedom.org/resources/2016/linux-kernel-cddl.html | 20:22 |
| jeblair | #link https://www.softwarefreedom.org/resources/2016/linux-kernel-cddl.html | 20:22 |
| annegentl_ | thanks! | 20:22 |
| fungi | worth noting that if the unified global requirements list remains our sole gatekeeping tool for this, then it's not actually effective if we start comingling test-time dependencies not held to the same standard in that list and we'll need to come up with a more fine-grained solution | 20:22 |
| jeblair | fungi: yes, that's the point dims raised | 20:23 |
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| fungi | oh, yep, i missed that comment | 20:23 |
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| ttx | yes, we should have one at some point. For the moment I'll probably do due diligence on problematic deps | 20:23 |
| jeblair | i don't actually think we intended it to be that, however | 20:23 |
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| dhellmann | fungi : yeah, we'll have to talk about that at some point soon, I think. | 20:23 |
| ttx | ok, approving now, and deferring taht discussion for when lifeless and mordred are here at the same time | 20:23 |
| ttx | done | 20:24 |
| ttx | #topic Applying Tacker for Big Tent | 20:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Applying Tacker for Big Tent (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:24 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/276417 | 20:24 |
| ttx | Round 3... As I said in the meeting reminder, would be good if we could come to a final decision here | 20:25 |
| ttx | All stated objections hinge on whether we trust Tacker can become a generally-useful OpenStack glue service rather than an NFV-infeodated purpose-built narrow application | 20:25 |
| ttx | We can either trust that they will become that and approve them now | 20:25 |
| ttx | Or we can apply caution and ask that they demonstrate being generally-useful first, and delay the application | 20:25 |
| ttx | (or assert that they can't become that and reject them outright) | 20:25 |
| ttx | I'm slightly leaning on the "trusting" side because I fear the catch-22 (not being able to truly be generally useful until it's officially adopted) | 20:26 |
| ttx | That said, the lack of TC member votes and enthusiasm around it should push us to caution | 20:26 |
| mestery | I think we should in general lean to trust | 20:26 |
| ttx | Still missing 6 votes, current expressed votes lean towards including it | 20:26 |
| mestery | So I agree with you ttx | 20:26 |
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| flaper87 | I'm on the trusting side. We've applied the same logic on other projects and we can evaluate again later | 20:26 |
| annegentl_ | generally trust as well | 20:27 |
| jaypipes | I have not changed my mind on Tacker. I continue to see it as a purpose-built application for telco that consumes a variety of OpenStack APIs and services. | 20:27 |
| dhellmann | I'm OK with trusting them, but would like to understand what it means if they don't? | 20:27 |
| dtroyer | I think they have shown good intentions and practice, I think we can trust the team so far | 20:27 |
| dtroyer | But I am still not certain this needs to be an OpenStack project. It looks like an application layer to me. | 20:27 |
| ttx | missing lifeless, mordred, dtroyer, jeblair, sdague, dhellmann | 20:27 |
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| mordred | yah. you are missing me | 20:28 |
| ttx | mordred: I do. | 20:28 |
| annegentl_ | dtroyer: I feel like that's the case for trove then too | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | do we set a time-frame? do we revisit this at some point? | 20:28 |
| russellb | it sounds like we should have a more general conversation about where we'd like to draw an upper scope bound | 20:28 |
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| mordred | I'm having trouble developing enough of an opinion on this to vote, tbh | 20:28 |
| russellb | and write that down | 20:28 |
| annegentl_ | russellb: yeah | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | russellb : ++ | 20:28 |
| dtroyer | annegentl_: maybe? although Trove is more general. | 20:28 |
| russellb | because other than that, this is fine to me | 20:28 |
| sdague | mordred: same | 20:28 |
| annegentl_ | I'd like to separate that discussion about scopes/bounds from this review though. | 20:28 |
| mordred | here are my thoughts, in no particular order | 20:28 |
| ttx | mordred: and I feel bad for voting as well. I have not nearly the same conviction as jaypipes has, yet my vote carries the same weight | 20:28 |
| ttx | and yet we need to, that's what we were elected for | 20:29 |
| mordred | a) in the big tent, I care most about humans who are like us doing development on things kind of like we do development on things | 20:29 |
| mordred | I don't particularly pass a lot of judgement on the validity of the thing itself | 20:29 |
| * jeblair expands voting scale 10x for ttx to register a 1/10 vote | 20:29 | |
| bswartz | +1 (with conviction) ? | 20:29 |
| jaypipes | ttx: the weight of one's conviction has never been a good indicator of correctness :) | 20:29 |
| ttx | +0 | 20:29 |
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| mordred | b) there is obviously an upper bound where things are just apps on top of openstack ... but I'm not sure if I have a good basis to judge that at th emoment | 20:29 |
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| russellb | i've tried to balance out jaypipes' conviction with equal and opposite conviction, to make it totally unclear where to go next | 20:30 |
| annegentl_ | jaypipes: heh | 20:30 |
| jeblair | russellb: my hero | 20:30 |
| mestery | heh | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | russellb : helping! | 20:30 |
| ttx | russellb: and then I summarized it with plenty of doubts and registered my +0 | 20:30 |
| russellb | this is in an upper bound grey area, but it's far from alone there | 20:31 |
| ttx | recipe for success and quick decision | 20:31 |
| mordred | c) I would like to do things to help our opnfv friends | 20:31 |
| russellb | IMO.. | 20:31 |
| russellb | ttx: :) | 20:31 |
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| russellb | ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | 20:31 |
| mestery | mordred: teamwork! | 20:31 |
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| ttx | we can totally decide that we need to think about it a lot more and defer the decision to next cycle | 20:31 |
| mordred | so, I thinkn I'm leaning towards a yes | 20:31 |
| mordred | largely because I think that to reject something from the big tent I need to have a specific reason for the no | 20:32 |
| ttx | we can also say yes but with the damocles sword of being removed based on that future discussion on scope | 20:32 |
| russellb | i'd propose yes for now, with an increased priority for discussing scope | 20:32 |
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| markmcclain | I still think caution is warranted and we should defer... would give team time to implement the integrations they've committed to | 20:32 |
| russellb | and an understanding that we may revisit the projects in the grey area based on the outcome | 20:32 |
| mestery | russellb: +1 | 20:32 |
| dtroyer | russellb: that is to me a reason to either defer or decide no | 20:32 |
| jaypipes | I'm not at ALL against helping out our OPNFV friends. I'm just saying I don't believe a purpose-built Telco MANO application "is OpenStack" and furthers the mission of OpenStack to be the ubiquitous cloud computing infrastructure for private and public clouds. | 20:32 |
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| * flaper87 will learn all the acronyms before this discussion ends... promised! | 20:33 | |
| ttx | russellb: "provisionally approved pending further discussion on scope" ? | 20:33 |
| jeblair | mordred's *rousing* speech seems to have gathered a few votes | 20:33 |
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| sdague | I'm formally abstaining | 20:34 |
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| mestery | I tend to agree with mordred that under the big tent I'm not seeing how I'd vote no on this one. | 20:34 |
| ttx | remember Donald Trump will soon be POTUS and the end of the world is near anyway | 20:34 |
| dougwig | This bike shed is starting to look like a psychedelic barber pole. That was lit on fire. | 20:34 |
| sdague | I did register it as such | 20:34 |
| anteaya | ttx: cory booker is in the wings | 20:34 |
| anteaya | ttx: I have hope for him post trump | 20:34 |
| mordred | jaypipes: I think that if it helps NFV folks use openstack as their cloud, then it helps that. I do not know if it will help that, but I do not think it will explicitly hurt that | 20:34 |
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| mordred | jaypipes: so worst case it seems to hurt no more than any of the other margianlly helpful things we have, and best case maybe it helps a little? | 20:35 |
| russellb | mordred: that's my feeling | 20:35 |
| mestery | 8 rollcall +1 votes now | 20:35 |
| ttx | OK, we have 8 votes yes at this stage, probably because it's easier to say yes than no. | 20:35 |
| rockyg | mordred: ++ makes ubiquitous openstack more ubiquitous | 20:35 |
| mestery | ttx: Isn't that the big tent's premise? | 20:35 |
| ttx | I'm fine with making it clear this is provisional approval | 20:35 |
| ttx | pending more discussion | 20:35 |
| mestery | ttx: Have we done a provisional approval before? | 20:35 |
| ttx | no | 20:36 |
| mestery | OK | 20:36 |
| ttx | all approvals are proviosnal | 20:36 |
| russellb | welcome to big tent era | 20:36 |
| mestery | lol | 20:36 |
| mestery | True | 20:36 |
| ttx | it's just that we need to psychologically prepare projects to be kicked out | 20:36 |
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| ttx | I have my list | 20:36 |
| jaypipes | rockyg: or does it make NFV architecture and ETSI more ubiquitous? | 20:36 |
| rockyg | jaypipes, Both? | 20:36 |
| ttx | some projects are going horribly wrong and should definitely not be openstack | 20:37 |
| jaypipes | rockyg: one is not the other | 20:37 |
| russellb | these folks are rallying around openstack, and i think we should be supporting that | 20:37 |
| jaypipes | rockyg: and it is that equivocy that I see as dangerous. | 20:37 |
| markmcclain | russellb: but they're rallying around openstack on their terms | 20:37 |
| mestery | Right, this makes openstack AND NFV/ETSI more ubiquitous IMHO | 20:37 |
| ttx | so we might not have kicked out anyone but it may happen. Especially now that we don't even have to rename the repos | 20:37 |
| russellb | markmcclain: huh? | 20:37 |
| anteaya | ttx: so happy to hear you say that | 20:37 |
| jaypipes | rockyg: the whole-hog consumption of OPenStack by the telco industry consortium is a real danger. | 20:37 |
| * dhellmann can't wait to see ttx's list | 20:37 | |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: ++ | 20:38 |
| rockyg | jaypipes, very true. | 20:38 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: projects without an install guide are up there on my list | 20:38 |
| sdague | ttx: if it's not tested it's broken? | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | ttx: ++ | 20:38 |
| ttx | anyway, back on topic | 20:38 |
| flaper87 | should we move on? I think there are enough votes to make a decision | 20:39 |
| mestery | flaper87: ++ | 20:39 |
| markmcclain | russellb: basically what japypipes said... telcos want a very specific vision for OpenStack | 20:39 |
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| ttx | dtroyer: you should register your vote as RollCall | 20:39 |
| jaypipes | rockyg: if you don't see the danger that a single industry driving feature requests and product direction is, please have a chat with any nova core contributor about how NUMA, CPU pinning, SR-IOV and PCI functionality has gone. | 20:39 |
| rockyg | jaypipes, can enterprise world adoption help balance the scales? | 20:39 |
| russellb | markmcclain: everyone has a vision | 20:39 |
| dtroyer | ttx: thanks, done | 20:39 |
| russellb | anyway, moving on | 20:39 |
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| ttx | 8 vs. 3, one abstain | 20:40 |
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| ttx | I think that means yes | 20:40 |
| flaper87 | it's missing lifeless' vote but that won't change the result | 20:40 |
| flaper87 | Unless lifeless convinces all +1's to be -1's | 20:41 |
| ttx | Although I agree with dtroyer's point. We are creating a larger grey mess we'll have to fix one day | 20:41 |
| flaper87 | :D | 20:41 |
| flaper87 | I think it's fair to say we'll revisit that grey mess in Newton | 20:41 |
| flaper87 | why not? Or every cycle | 20:41 |
| ttx | I think revisiting that grey mess should be our priority in Newton | 20:42 |
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| mestery | ttx: ++ | 20:42 |
| flaper87 | ttx: I'd agree with that | 20:42 |
| mestery | Spring cleaning | 20:42 |
| flaper87 | :) | 20:42 |
| ttx | We had two grey things being submitted recently | 20:42 |
| russellb | fine with me. | 20:42 |
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| ttx | previously that was easier | 20:42 |
| annegentl_ | grey matter for grey mess | 20:42 |
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| russellb | i'm sure we'll have plenty to argue around that | 20:42 |
| ttx | alright, closing the vote now | 20:42 |
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| ttx | It is in | 20:43 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:43 | |
| ttx | * OpenStack CI resources vs. project growth (sdague) | 20:43 |
| ttx | sdague: floor is yours | 20:43 |
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| sdague | sure, this is something I wanted to bring up in looking at the delays and turn around time we're hitting as we hit milestones | 20:44 |
| sdague | we've got project growth | 20:44 |
| sdague | growth of testing on projects | 20:44 |
| sdague | and are actually currently down on cloud resources from the last 3 releases | 20:44 |
| sdague | and while that last one may get addressed, I think the growth is always going to be pushing boundaries | 20:45 |
| sdague | for instance, there was a nodepool issue over the weekend, which basically put an 8 hour delay into everything yesterday until it could grind overnight | 20:45 |
| annegentl_ | sdague: so so true | 20:45 |
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| annegentl_ | for other cross project concerns also | 20:45 |
| ttx | annegentl_: I think infra is where the growth is creating the most impact though | 20:46 |
| dhellmann | we've even been hampered a bit with releases because of the check queue depth | 20:46 |
| sdague | so any hiccup in the system can trigger a cascade that taks a couple of days to clear | 20:46 |
| annegentl_ | ttx: yeah except for lack of install guides will cause longer-term delay in adoption. CI resources are easier to measure direct hit | 20:46 |
| sdague | I think it's too late to address anything for mitaka, but I wanted to get a conversation going around this | 20:47 |
| dhellmann | sdague : are you building up to a proposal, or just starting the conversation? | 20:47 |
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| fungi | yeah, the real shame is that the nodepool issue was addressed hours before we got into peak usage. it could have been far worse if it were just a little later in the day | 20:47 |
| annegentl_ | not saying one's more "valuable" but that one's easier to visualize on a timeline | 20:47 |
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| sdague | dhellmann: just the conversation | 20:47 |
| ttx | annegentl_: sure, "most visible impact" | 20:47 |
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| ttx | sdague: so... solutions include: more test hosts, less tests/project, less projects | 20:48 |
| ttx | any other solution ? | 20:48 |
| sdague | more guidance on use of test resources? | 20:48 |
| fungi | or finding a way to deprioritize jobs for some projects and prioritize others | 20:48 |
| sdague | right, prioritization on peaks | 20:48 |
| sdague | that's a 5th thing | 20:48 |
| jeblair | fungi: interestingly we looked at that a long time ago, and the use of ci resources by non "core" projects was almost negligible | 20:48 |
| ttx | FOr example, non-voting jobs seem to be completely ignored by most, yet consume a lot of resources | 20:48 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I was thinking if we reserved CI for official projects during peak times that might help, but only during those times and we'd move the peaks from other projects to other times | 20:48 |
| jeblair | i actually doubt it is that much different now | 20:49 |
| dhellmann | jeblair : does that still hold? | 20:49 |
| fungi | gearman hampers us there a bit since the protocol has a designed-in 3-level precedence implementation | 20:49 |
| annegentl_ | one question I have is, has anyone measured 3rd party impact | 20:49 |
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| mordred | annegentl_: what do you mean | 20:49 |
| mordred | ? | 20:49 |
| annegentl_ | and would more 3rd party testing help with resources? | 20:49 |
| anteaya | annegentl_: what impact | 20:49 |
| sdague | so, again, I think we come back to step 1 - do we have a real problem? | 20:49 |
| anteaya | how would you invision? | 20:49 |
| jeblair | dhellmann: my gut says it mostly still holds. but actual measurement might be useful. :) | 20:49 |
| fungi | jeblair: yeah, i suspect not much has changed there but it would be interesting to see updated numbers | 20:49 |
| dhellmann | jeblair, fungi : yeah | 20:50 |
| anteaya | annegentl_: the testing is different, proprietary vs open | 20:50 |
| annegentl_ | anteaya: wondering if we look at all testing as a pie, is 3rd party testing able to take on more of a large pie? | 20:50 |
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| anteaya | only to benefit themselves | 20:50 |
| annegentl_ | anteaya: ok | 20:50 |
| anteaya | third party testing has no benefit to openstack trunk code | 20:50 |
| ttx | sdague: I think we do have a problem yes. We could ramp up CI resources to accommodate growth before, and we are struggling to do that currently | 20:50 |
| jeblair | sdague: i think this is timely -- we are basically at capacity right now (where my definition of at capacity means our ability to finish 24h worth of jobs in 24h) | 20:50 |
| jbryce | when we have these periodic bottlenecks, how under-resourced are we? (ballpark) | 20:50 |
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| fungi | annegentl_: anteaya: right, the "third-party" solution is additional parties with available cloud resources donating quota to us so we can use that to run first-party (upstream) jobs there | 20:51 |
| jbryce | 10%? 50%? 100%? | 20:51 |
| annegentl_ | jeblair: time machine? | 20:51 |
| ttx | I would say 50%, but fungi should know better | 20:51 |
| sdague | jeblair: right, I think we have different definitions of at capacity, because if you can't turn around results on your patch in a timely manner it hampers the ability to address issues only seen in our gate | 20:52 |
| anteaya | jbryce: we would use any resources given to us to their maximum quota | 20:52 |
| russellb | and do you think paying some subset of providers for extra capacity would hurt our ability to get resources donated? | 20:52 |
| mordred | jbryce: we were hitting capacity before HP sunset | 20:52 |
| sdague | mordred: we were, it's definitely a lot more cramped since then though | 20:52 |
| fungi | jbryce: it's hard to put a hard number on, because the impact is "how much longer does it take to get certain kinds ofg job results" | 20:52 |
| jbryce | anteaya: i understand that, but i’m wondering at what level of additional resources we would not be hitting capacity | 20:52 |
| mordred | jbryce: so, I'd say we're at least under capacity by 600 VMs at peak times - but probably more. we are obviously working on finding more capacity | 20:52 |
| jbryce | mordred: ok cool | 20:52 |
| sdague | mordred: yeh, that's about as good an estimate as any | 20:52 |
| jbryce | how predictable is the arrival of peak times? it seems at least some of them we can see coming, eh? | 20:53 |
| fungi | we have graphs | 20:53 |
| anteaya | jbryce: every milestone and feature freeze | 20:53 |
| fungi | that can be trended fairly accurately | 20:53 |
| jeblair | we can define it more precisely if we agree on a service expectation (jobs report in 24h? 8h? 2h?) | 20:53 |
| anteaya | you can set a watch by it | 20:53 |
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| anteaya | jeblair: right, we have never set service expecations | 20:53 |
| * jbryce is mulling over some way to get temporary quota increases from providers within an agreed upon timeframe | 20:53 | |
| russellb | jbryce: i think it's the kind of thing worth spending $ on | 20:53 |
| sdague | jeblair: right, maybe that's part of the conversation | 20:53 |
| anteaya | we just live with what we have and communicate it | 20:54 |
| jbryce | yeah exactly | 20:54 |
| flaper87 | russellb: ++ | 20:54 |
| jeblair | currently, lacking any other metric, we've been going by 24h | 20:54 |
| sdague | because once we get past 2 hrs turn around, it definitely negative impacts development | 20:54 |
| annegentl_ | might as well do 24 hours, not sure smaller increments is meaningful for global work | 20:54 |
| fungi | there are daily, weekly and release cycle patterns which each have their own envelope | 20:54 |
| annegentl_ | any link to graphs? | 20:54 |
| dhellmann | jbryce: it would be useful to have more capacity around the 2nd and 3rd milestones, and during the RC1 period. | 20:54 |
| anteaya | sdague: 2 hours turn around for what? | 20:54 |
| anteaya | for the gate? | 20:54 |
| sdague | especially with global teams where you are only getting a couple of hrs of overlap to solve things | 20:54 |
| sdague | anteaya: check queue | 20:54 |
| anteaya | okay check queue | 20:55 |
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| markmcclain | when we have peak demand can we not automatically disable non-voting jobs? for instance neutron 8 of 18 and manilla 10 of 16 are non voting | 20:55 |
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| anteaya | markmcclain: every project uses non-voting jobs to mean different things | 20:55 |
| fungi | #link http://grafana.openstack.org/dashboard/db/zuul-status the zuul job queue is probably the best indicator of demand | 20:55 |
| dhellmann | that seems like a high % even during non-peak times | 20:55 |
| dhellmann | both to | 20:55 |
| dhellmann | do | 20:55 |
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| anteaya | despite what we would like, folks interpret them differently within their group | 20:55 |
| jeblair | markmcclain: i guess the question is -- are non-voting jobs valuable? if they are, we should run them; if they are not, we should not run them in check. | 20:56 |
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| anteaya | non-voting is supposed to be a step towards voting, but that isn't the reality for some | 20:56 |
| ttx | some/most | 20:56 |
| sdague | anyway, this was an intent not to solve the issue right here, because I think seeing our growth curves it's an important conversation to be having over the next cycle, with the TC folks being part of it | 20:56 |
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| ttx | sdague: and thanks for raising it | 20:56 |
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| annegentl_ | sdague: yep thanks | 20:56 |
| dhellmann | anteaya : do you have any idea what % of the jobs we run are non-voting overall? | 20:56 |
| jeblair | it's also worth noting that we have recently onlined some more clouds, and have others in the pipelin | 20:57 |
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| sdague | jeblair: yep, which definitely helps | 20:57 |
| fungi | also prioritization is hard to tweak, because as soon as we prioritize one thing (say, gating) then we discover how much people relied on faster turn-around on others (check results, post-merge publication) | 20:57 |
| anteaya | dhellmann: I do not, but I bet AJeager would have those numbers quickly | 20:57 |
| mordred | sdague: I love everyone on the TC - but do you have ideas of which ways are you thinking the TC can be helpful? | 20:57 |
| anteaya | dhellmann: can I get back to you on that? | 20:57 |
| jeblair | including infra-cloud (which ran 1 some jobs last week!) | 20:57 |
| dhellmann | anteaya : sure, I expect this is going to be a topic of discussion for a while | 20:57 |
| sdague | but our project and test growth rates seem to be accellerating faster than that | 20:57 |
| anteaya | dhellmann: I'll take that as an action item | 20:57 |
| dhellmann | mordred : I expect we're going to need to set some usage policies, don't you? | 20:58 |
| sdague | mordred: honestly, this feels like a more important issue to get a hold of than new tags. Maybe that's just me :) | 20:58 |
| dhellmann | sdague : no, I'm on board with that, too | 20:58 |
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| mordred | sdague: I agree it's super important - but I also just want to make sure we have an idea of how we think productive looks. perhaps usage policies for sure | 20:58 |
| flaper87 | sdague: dhellmann count me in | 20:58 |
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| ttx | No more time to discuss stale reviews, we can do that next week | 20:59 |
| sdague | mordred: usage policies and norms | 20:59 |
| sdague | and leadership back in projects we're a part of | 20:59 |
| dhellmann | it would be interesting to look at things like whether we could combine any of the shorter jobs so they run together, in parallel with the longer jobs, to use fewer nodes | 20:59 |
| ttx | Small heads-up, please review project team guide changes ! We have a number of changes stuck in that queue | 20:59 |
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| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/project-team-guide | 20:59 |
| mordred | sdague: k. that's also helpful in infra being able to prepare/provide input data that can help those | 20:59 |
| sdague | yep, for sure | 20:59 |
| mordred | like, depending on the quality of te discussion, different reports and data might be useful | 20:59 |
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| dhellmann | will this be the subject of an infra session at the summit? | 21:00 |
| dhellmann | or cross-project? | 21:00 |
| rockyg | ++ | 21:00 |
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| jeblair | dhellmann: that suggestion feels more like a technical infra suggestion than a tc topic? | 21:00 |
| flaper87 | jeblair: ++ | 21:00 |
| jeblair | dhellmann: (your combining jobs idea) | 21:00 |
| ttx | ok we are out of time | 21:00 |
| ttx | Thanks everyone | 21:00 |
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| flaper87 | o/ | 21:01 |
| dhellmann | jeblair : yeah, definitely | 21:01 |
| flaper87 | cheers | 21:01 |
| flaper87 | tty next week | 21:01 |
| mestery | thanks ttx | 21:01 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 1 21:01:11 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-03-01-20.01.html | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-03-01-20.01.txt | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-03-01-20.01.log.html | 21:01 |
| russellb | bye all | 21:01 |
| thingee | reminder cross-project meeting is SKIPPED this week http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-March/087871.html | 21:01 |
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| dhellmann | thingee : thanks for the reminder, I couldn't find that email | 21:02 |
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| lifeless | flaper87: ttx: so fwiw I'm -1 at this point :/ | 21:21 |
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| ttx | lifeless: on Tacker ? oh well, still a majority I guess | 21:24 |
| lifeless | yah | 21:25 |
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