Tuesday, 2016-03-08

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alex_xudansmith: hi, are you stil around?01:58
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alex_xudansmith: oops. sorry wrong window...01:59
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yamamoto_#startmeeting networking_midonet07:07
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar  8 07:07:04 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is yamamoto_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.07:07
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.07:07
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)"07:07
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'networking_midonet'07:07
yamamoto_#topic Agenda07:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)"07:07
yamamoto_#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NetworkingMidoNet07:07
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yamamoto_#topic Announcements07:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)"07:07
yamamoto_no announcements from me07:07
yamamoto_#topic Bugs07:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)"07:07
yamamoto_#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/networking-midonet/07:08
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yamamoto_as you may know, the gate is currently broken.07:08
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yamamoto_#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/287014/07:09
yamamoto_this patch is the blocker.07:09
yamamoto_if it won't be merged in a timely manner, we can workaround by folding multiple fixes into a single patch, though.07:10
yamamoto_i'll continue bug deputy as usual07:11
yamamoto_#topic Open Discussion07:11
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)"07:11
yamamoto_nothing from me.07:11
* yamamoto_ waiting for a while before closing the meeting07:12
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yamamoto_let's call it a day.07:15
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"07:15
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar  8 07:15:05 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)07:15
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-03-08-07.07.html07:15
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-03-08-07.07.txt07:15
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-03-08-07.07.log.html07:15
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anteaya#startmeeting third-party08:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar  8 08:01:15 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.08:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.08:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)"08:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'third_party'08:01
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anteayahi lennyb__08:02
anteayahow are you today?08:02
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lennyb__I am fine, fighting with Ironic:). how are you?08:02
anteayaI'm fine, not fighting with ironic08:03
anteayawhat are you doing with ironic?08:03
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lennyb__we are working on some features over our hardware, so CI is a very important phase. But currently I am trying to get my ironic tempest pass08:04
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anteayayou are working on a ci for ironic?08:05
lennyb__eventually yes.08:05
anteayado you have to meet their current deadlines?08:06
anteayaI think their deadlines are for current drivers08:06
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lennyb__I've noticed that there is only cisco CI as third party. I am not sure that we will meet the deadlines.08:08
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lennyb__we are still working on solutions that will satisfy community and our HW :)08:08
anteayaare you in conversation with ironic about the deadlines?08:08
anteayaI'm sorry I didn't know earlier you were putting together an ironic ci08:09
anteayawe could have talked about the deadlines08:09
anteayathis round the deadline was basically create a gerrit account and have it report to the sandbox08:09
anteayayou could have finished it in about 30 minutes08:10
anteayathe report to the sandbox didnt' need to be automated that I saw08:10
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anteayabut the deadline for doing this was m3 which has passed08:10
anteayathis deadline wasn't about having a system in place it was about interacting with the community08:11
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lennyb__I see. There is always a newer version of openstack :).08:12
anteayathat is the point of our release cycle08:12
anteayawe are always working on a release08:12
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lennyb__btw, do I need a new gerrit account for Ironic CI or I can use 'one for all' ?08:13
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anteayathat is a question you would need to ask them08:14
anteayahave you talked to anyone in ironic?08:14
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lennyb__ok. not yet, I've talked to them about the issues I had.08:14
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lennyb__I also cant 'ask' for CI yet, since our setup not working yet.08:15
anteayato whom did you speak?08:15
anteayathat is not the point08:15
anteayathe point of the ironic deadline was for you to interect with the ironic team08:16
anteayaso they knew who you are and what you are doing08:16
anteayahaving a working setup is not the expectation at this point08:16
anteayaensuring ironic knows you exist is the point08:16
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lennyb__I see. I asked  questions in irc and got some answers. I did not introduce myself 'properly'08:17
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anteayaplease introduce yourself08:17
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anteayatell them who you are and what you are wanting to do08:18
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anteayaso they can know about you and tell you what you need08:18
anteayaare you in the ironic channel?08:18
anteayawell that is good08:19
anteayaI'm glad to hear that08:19
anteayawell mrda is in the ironic channel, or was a short time ago08:19
anteayaintroduce yourself to him08:20
anteayahis time zone would overlap yours08:20
lennyb__ok, thanks.08:20
anteayaI'm sorry I didn't know this before08:20
anteayaI would have encouraged you to contact them before the deadline08:20
lennyb__you couldn't we started to work on ironic only recently08:20
anteayaoh you don't have a current driver in ironic?08:21
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lennyb__we suppose to work with ironic 'as is' we have some patches to support our HW, but it's not 'baked' yet08:22
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anteayaI don't understand08:23
anteayado you have code in ironic master currently?08:23
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lennyb__not yet08:23
anteayaokay thank you08:24
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anteayawell in that case it might be that the current deadline doesn't apply to you08:24
anteayabut make contact with ironic without delay and find out08:24
anteayaokay thanks08:25
anteayaand I hope your testing goes well08:25
anteayais there anything you would like to talk about today?08:26
anteayadid you read the logs from the monday 15:00 utc meeting?08:26
lennyb__not yet,08:27
anteayawe talked about ensuring operators read their email and reply in person to patches if need be08:27
anteayaand we talked about a memory leak issue with zuul08:27
anteayado you run zuul?08:27
lennyb__I've seen email regarding zuul, yes I am running it08:27
anteayahave you seen any memory leak issues?08:28
lennyb__no, but I also wasnt looking for it08:28
anteayawhat version of zuul are you running?08:29
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anteayacan you see how much memory it is using?08:30
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* lennyb__ checking08:30
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lennyb__1872604 kb08:34
anteayawell done08:35
anteayawhat else can you tell me about your zuul setup08:36
anteayahow often do you restart zuul?08:36
lennyb__looks like it was restarted recenly08:36
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anteayado you know how long ago it was restarted?08:37
anteayaand have you any idea who restarted it?08:37
anteayahow many people administer your ci system?08:37
lennyb__basically I restarted it once a week. Only me is working with it08:37
anteayahow long ago did you restart it?08:38
anteayaand why do you restart it once a week?08:38
lennyb__My manager can also work on CI in cases where I am not available. In cases that there are some failures and I am not sure what it is, I am stopping CI, debugging the issue and starting it again08:39
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anteayawhat was happening that you started restarting zuul weekly08:40
anteayait is possible the zuul memory leak is affecting you08:42
lennyb__it's statistics. I am not 'schedule' this. and more like once every 2 weeks. I can 'check' if you are interested08:42
anteayaI'm interested08:42
anteayayou don't have to do it now08:42
anteayabut yes we are gathering information from as many folks running zuul as wel can08:43
anteayabecause we still are trying to understand where the leak is happening08:43
anteayaso thank you08:43
anteayaif you are able to post to the mailing list thread about the zuul memory leak on the infra mailing list that would be wonderful08:44
anteayaso that's all I have08:44
anteayaany objection to me closing the meeting?08:44
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lennyb__ok, no, have a good rest of the night08:44
anteayaenjoy your day08:44
anteayasee you next week08:45
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"08:45
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar  8 08:45:05 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)08:45
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-03-08-08.01.html08:45
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-03-08-08.01.txt08:45
lennyb__you too08:45
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-03-08-08.01.log.html08:45
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alex_xu#startmeeting nova api12:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar  8 12:00:03 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is alex_xu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.12:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.12:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova api)"12:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova_api'12:00
alex_xuwho is here today?12:00
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* johnthetubaguy lurking12:00
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alex_xusorry, I didn't cleanup the agenda12:01
alex_xuI think we can go to the open direct today12:01
alex_xu#topic open12:01
*** openstack changes topic to "open (Meeting topic: nova api)"12:01
alex_xu#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/155444012:02
openstackLaunchpad bug 1554440 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "Show volume attachment exception does not looks good if server is in shelved_offloaded state" [Undecided,New] - Assigned to Ghanshyam Mann (ghanshyammann)12:02
alex_xugmann_: I think this is yours12:02
gmann_alex_xu: yea actually while implementing microversion tests 2.20 in tempest i saw this issue12:02
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alex_xugmann_: so good we have microversion test in tempest now12:03
gmann_I wanted to confirm 2 thing- 1. 'device' in volume attachments can be null any time?12:03
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gmann_alex_xu: sdague yea i updated patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/258391/2412:03
johnthetubaguyso device has lots of issues, as its only really a guess12:03
sdaguegmann_: I'll put that on my review list12:03
gmann_sdague: Thanks12:04
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gmann_sdague: also bases patches, hanging long12:04
gmann_those are for putting all microversion stuff in /lib12:04
allen_gaosdague: would you look at this ? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/289822/12:05
gmann_sdague: alex_xu any time mountppoint can be null - https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/api/openstack/compute/volumes.py#L22312:05
alex_xuallen_gao: would you mind wait a minutes, let's finish gmann_'s agenda first12:05
gmann_sdague: alex_xu because in tempest, we expect 'device' to be always present in response12:05
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allen_gaoalex_xu: sorry12:06
johnthetubaguyso honestly, I think both are wrong12:06
gmann_sdague: I saw those for shelved offload case12:06
alex_xuallen_gao: no worries :)12:06
johnthetubaguythe API should really have some sort of "empty" value12:06
johnthetubaguybut that is a new microversion12:06
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johnthetubaguyso the tempest test should make that optional, in the mean time12:06
johnthetubaguy... I think12:06
gmann_johnthetubaguy: but other than shelved offload state, can it be for any other state?12:07
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gmann_for v2.1 tempest expect it as mandatory and non none12:07
tojuvonehi, I am here. as of compute API docs12:07
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gmann_while doing for v2.20 testing i got doubt on those12:08
johnthetubaguygmann_: I suspect also during the attach, but I am not sure12:08
gmann_from nova code those can be absent or None but do not know scenario12:08
gmann_#link https://github.com/openstack/tempest/blob/master/tempest/lib/api_schema/response/compute/v2_1/servers.py#L270-L27512:09
johnthetubaguyseems like device is optional: https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/compute/api.py#L313212:09
johnthetubaguyyeah, device is optional in the API12:10
johnthetubaguywhen you do attach12:10
gmann_johnthetubaguy: yea and for virt nova does not honor eve if that is passed12:11
gmann_johnthetubaguy: but will it be optional in response too, i think while booting instance it gets mounted12:11
johnthetubaguyyeah, that12:11
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johnthetubaguyso I think its optional in the API, how we display that, is probably bad12:12
johnthetubaguynot sure if that helps12:12
gmann_sdague: johnthetubaguy in that case, we might need to make this optional in tempest schema validation too12:13
johnthetubaguysounds like the tempest tests are wrong here, and the API is badly designed, as it shouldn't really hide the device like that12:13
johnthetubaguyyep, I think thats what I am saying here, needs to be optional12:13
gmann_johnthetubaguy: ok, Thanks i will change that12:14
sdaguegmann_: sure, the schemas in tempest were best effort by oomichi, they weren't official from nova12:14
sdaguethey very well could be wrong12:14
gmann_sdague: yea12:14
gmann_sdague: johnthetubaguy alex_xu second issue is  - https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/155444012:14
openstackLaunchpad bug 1554440 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "Show volume attachment exception does not looks good if server is in shelved_offloaded state" [High,Triaged] - Assigned to Ghanshyam Mann (ghanshyammann)12:14
gmann_not sure though bug or ok12:14
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gmann_for shelved offload state, mount point will always be none and show attachment trow exception Not Found12:15
gmann_#link https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/api/openstack/compute/volumes.py#L28912:15
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johnthetubaguyI think we should return the attachment12:15
gmann_at least for shelved offload it should just ignore mount point and show response12:15
johnthetubaguylogically the volume is "attached", just the device is missing as its not yet been physically attached12:16
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johnthetubaguyits bad to have list inconsistent12:16
alex_xuso let return None for no mount point?12:16
gmann_yea, on unselve that will be attached12:16
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gmann_alex_xu: yea None or just not add like list12:17
johnthetubaguyyou want it to appear, to check your API call to attach "happened" I think12:17
johnthetubaguyyeah, it should match the list operation, for now, I think12:17
johnthetubaguythis feels like a bug fix, rather than a microversion, but it feels a little boarderline12:18
alex_xuI'm ok without microversion12:18
gmann_johnthetubaguy: +1 for as bug fix12:18
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gmann_and that fix for all version i mean not just for v2.20 right?12:18
gmann_i mean like list, if no mount point then just do not include 'Device'12:19
alex_xuI'm also think of only fix for v2.20, that sounds like more safe, if we think this is borderline12:19
johnthetubaguyinclude device? I thought we were talking about stopping the 404?12:20
johnthetubaguyah, sorry, missread I think12:20
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alex_xujohnthetubaguy: yea, stop the 404 in 2.2012:20
gmann_johnthetubaguy: not include if None same as list12:21
gmann_alex_xu: but for older version also it is bit inconsistent12:21
gmann_it is 404 -> 200, should not be issue12:21
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johnthetubaguythat sounds reasonable to me, easier once we have the change up, and think through it12:22
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: you mean fix it in all versions?12:23
gmann_johnthetubaguy: sounds good. I will put patch up early tomorrow. then we can discuss more12:23
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johnthetubaguypossibly fix in all versions, I think its easier to get the code up so we can see the impact12:24
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: ok, cool12:24
alex_xuso let's move on12:24
alex_xuallen_gao: I think your problem resolved, sdague already +2 your patch12:25
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alex_xutojuvone: your turn12:26
tojuvone#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-api-site/+bug/155405212:26
openstackLaunchpad bug 1554052 in openstack-api-site "os-services missing from compute API v2.1" [Medium,Confirmed] - Assigned to Tomi Juvonen (tomi-juvonen-q)12:26
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tojuvoneSo, os-services missing and also was wondering how it is with microversions. Should those api changes also be there?12:27
johnthetubaguyso right now, that doc is only documenting v2.1 (the base version), I think12:27
alex_xutojuvone: sorry, we don't support microversion in the api-site yet12:27
johnthetubaguyyeah, what alex_xu said12:27
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alex_xuyea, I think we try to figure out in newton, maybe we will have swagger support12:28
johnthetubaguynow, os-services, was that there before12:28
tojuvoneok, hope there is nothing else then missing than this os-services, I can continue to look this12:28
johnthetubaguyalex_xu: we really, really have to fix that next cycle12:28
johnthetubaguytojuvone: I though we added a load back in there, did this get dropped somehow?12:28
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: yea, otherwise we got another big gap between doc and api12:28
alex_xuyea, for now, I think we just need load it back12:29
tojuvoneI found some work from jichenjc, maybe I can contact him (where I think this was removed)12:29
gmann_yea, may be misplaced during some updates :)12:30
tojuvoneok, well I look it and good to know the microversion stuff12:30
johnthetubaguyI think annegentle pinged my about some removals12:30
alex_xutojuvone: yea, jichen help a lot of on that12:30
jichentojuvone:I am here12:30
johnthetubaguywe should really make sure there are no removals vs v2.012:30
johnthetubaguyI did go back a few months back and double check everything, and added a few back in12:31
johnthetubaguyseems we somehow lost some12:31
jichentojuvone: I didn't remove service related , as far as I remember ..12:31
allen_gaoalex_xu: yea, thank you ;)12:32
johnthetubaguyso I seem some stuff in here:12:32
johnthetubaguythis one totally makes sense: https://github.com/openstack/api-site/commit/5feaeccde67655db32e64ab408b2a108fbfe582412:32
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johnthetubaguyso I guess its where we had added microversion stuff in?12:33
johnthetubaguythose removals seem correct12:33
tojuvonejohnthetubaguy: yes, that is microversion12:33
jichenoops, yes, that's made by me12:33
jichensorry, I forgot this12:33
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alex_xuthat won't remove all the os-service doc I guess?12:34
johnthetubaguyjichen: no worries, you have been very busy :)12:34
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johnthetubaguyalex_xu: it looks like the existing things are still there, but I am not 100% sure12:34
tojuvonebut then there was change on ch_compute-v2.1.xml12:34
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johnthetubaguyso that sounds bad12:34
tojuvoneyes, I think os-services-v2.1.wadl is good12:35
alex_xuanyway let's add os-services back12:35
tojuvonethen some api sample was missing after I tried to fix ch_compute-v2.1.xml12:35
tojuvoneyep, no need to go further here ;)12:35
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alex_xutojuvone: if you still have trouble, free to ping me12:35
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alex_xuso I think we can move on12:36
* gmann_ curious about api sample missing12:36
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alex_xuKevin_Zheng: you have think want to discuss right?12:36
Kevin_ZhengI want to raise a topic12:36
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johnthetubaguytojuvone: alex_xu: sounds like we all agree on the direction for the docs, so thats the main bits, I guess12:37
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: yup12:37
tojuvonejohnthetubaguy: yep12:37
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Kevin_Zhenghere, we clarified twice about the length limit of injected file content12:37
Kevin_ZhengThe maximum limit refers to the number of bytes in the decoded data and not to the number of characters in the encoded data.12:38
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Kevin_Zhengand The file path and contents, text only, to inject into the server at launch. The maximum size of the file path data is 255 bytes. The maximum limit is The number of allowed bytes in the decoded, rather than encoded, data.12:38
Kevin_Zhengthe second one is in the chart of create instance parameters12:38
Kevin_Zhengbut in the code: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/nova/tree/nova/compute/api.py#n27012:39
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Kevin_Zhengwe are actually checking the base64 encoded data directly12:39
Kevin_Zhengdata length will grow after base64 encode12:39
Kevin_Zhengfor example 7680 bytes will grow to 1024012:40
Kevin_Zhenguser will have to determain the length of data after encode12:40
Kevin_Zhengand it is inconstant12:40
Kevin_ZhengWhat should we do?12:41
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johnthetubaguyI think the max has to be on what is input to the API, I think, isn't that correct here?12:41
Kevin_Zhengsorry inconsistant12:41
Kevin_Zhengyes it is, but the doc writes it should be decoded data12:41
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Kevin_Zhengand it will be harder for user to determain the data length after encode12:42
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johnthetubaguyso what does the user pass to the API, its the encoded data, I thought?12:43
johnthetubaguyor is that wrong?12:43
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Kevin_Zhengyes user should pass encoded data12:43
alex_xuyes, user padd to the API with encoded data12:43
Kevin_Zhengbut for example, using novaclient,12:43
Kevin_Zhenguser pass a file to client12:44
Kevin_Zhengclient will encode the content12:44
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johnthetubaguyyes, agreed12:44
Kevin_Zhenguser will not know the length after encode12:44
alex_xuI guess Kevin_Zheng's point is from end-user which use UI or CLI12:44
johnthetubaguyits the rest API point of view that should be taken here12:44
johnthetubaguyalthough I am wondering how this has been "wrong" for so long12:45
Kevin_ZhengI think it is not user friendly to let them calculate the encoded length12:45
johnthetubaguyso, the question here is what does the API actually do today12:46
Kevin_Zhengas show the file size will be pretty simple12:46
johnthetubaguynow, we might want to change that, but that is a breaking API change12:46
Kevin_Zhengit checkes the content directly12:46
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: agree12:46
Kevin_Zhengyes, as the current allowed size is smaller than the actual limit12:47
Kevin_Zhengthe current existed users will not be affected12:47
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alex_xuno, if user talk with two clouds with fix or without fix, this is breaking without microversion12:48
gmann_yea, interoperability can be issue12:48
johnthetubaguywell, actually, its a bit more odd12:48
Kevin_Zhengso, should we fix this?12:48
johnthetubaguyyou need to list your quotas to work out what is allowed12:48
johnthetubaguyKevin_Zheng: we should fix the docs, so they are correct, for sure12:48
Kevin_Zhengadding microversion12:48
Kevin_Zhengso we fix doc, not the code?12:49
johnthetubaguystep 1: fix docs12:49
Kevin_Zhengbut it will be less user friendly12:49
johnthetubaguystep 2: decide if we want to change newer microversions to be more friendly12:49
johnthetubaguynoting the old behaviour can't chnage12:49
Kevin_Zhengso change the doc to encoded data?12:50
johnthetubaguywe can have a newton spec to discuss this12:50
johnthetubaguyKevin_Zheng: make sure the docs match the current/existing behaviour, yes12:50
Kevin_ZhengOK, I will do that12:50
johnthetubaguywe should really be sure to add some tests around this12:50
johnthetubaguyI do worry if we changed this behaviour by accident at some point12:51
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alex_xuKevin_Zheng: is this ok for you?12:51
Kevin_Zhengyes, I will do it12:52
alex_xuKevin_Zheng: cool, thanks12:52
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Kevin_ZhengAnother question, can we add the support for "locked" filter when list servers?12:52
Kevin_Zhengcurrently we can only got the information using show API12:53
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Kevin_Zhengit will take forever to check all instances12:53
alex_xuKevin_Zheng: sounds ok, but I think we can decided that by spec12:53
Kevin_ZhengHm, sure12:53
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johnthetubaguydon't you get that with the show details api?12:54
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gmann_Kevin_Zheng: show detail shows that in v2.912:54
johnthetubaguyI am wondering why we need it int the regular list12:54
johnthetubaguygmann_: ah...12:54
Kevin_ZhengI will check that12:54
johnthetubaguyyeah, it feels like being in the detail list is the correct thing for locked12:54
gmann_i feel list should not show all12:55
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Kevin_ZhengI mean we add a filter12:55
gmann_johnthetubaguy: yea it is in show and detail list both12:55
Kevin_Zhengto filter out all the locked instances12:55
johnthetubaguygmann_: yeah, that seems correct12:55
Kevin_Zhenglike deleted12:55
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Kevin_ZhengI will check that12:55
johnthetubaguyKevin_Zheng: a filter seems OK, its worth a spec to add that in a microversion12:56
gmann_cannot that be done with regex, not sure though how exact that will be12:56
Kevin_Zhengjohnthetubaguy: hm, I will do that12:56
Kevin_ZhengThanks all12:56
alex_xuemm...sorry guys, 4 mins left. actually I want to talk about meeting time change12:57
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alex_xujust oomichi can't make this meeting, due to the meeting is 4:00 am for him12:57
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gmann_alex_xu: ohh12:57
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johnthetubaguyit does feel like we should alternate meeting times12:58
alex_xuso is there any propose for the time, I check the date, I founds really hard find one to propose12:58
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johnthetubaguymaybe its worth a quick doodle poll, or similar?12:58
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: emm...that also good idea12:58
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: yea, just found really hard find out a initial propose time :)12:58
johnthetubaguymaybe pick four times (possibly just think about mirroring the nova meeting times on a different day)12:58
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alex_xuok, let me try again, I will take care of this.12:59
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johnthetubaguyalex_xu: if it helps its 1pm for me right now12:59
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johnthetubaguyalex_xu: I can try help with ideas, ping me if I can help12:59
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alex_xujohnthetubaguy: not sure it is ok for gmann_13:00
alex_xujohnthetubaguy: thanks :)13:00
alex_xusoorry, it's time to close the meeting13:00
gmann_alex_xu: need to check JST13:00
alex_xuanyway, thanks all!13:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"13:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar  8 13:00:52 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)13:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2016/nova_api.2016-03-08-12.00.html13:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2016/nova_api.2016-03-08-12.00.txt13:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2016/nova_api.2016-03-08-12.00.log.html13:00
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gmann_Thansk all13:01
Qiming#startmeeting senlin13:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar  8 13:01:47 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.13:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.13:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'senlin'13:01
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Qiminggot some problems updating the meeting agenda page13:02
Qimingalso got a note from xinhui, she won't be able to join us today, because of some company activities ... parties?13:02
Qiminganyway, let's get started13:02
yanyanhualso can't access it even with proxy13:03
Qiming#topic mitaka work items13:03
*** openstack changes topic to "mitaka work items (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:03
Qiming#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-mitaka-workitems13:03
haiweime too13:03
Qiminggreat, site is down, :), not my fault13:03
QimingI was trying to reach xujun about scalability testing, but haven't got a response yet13:04
Qimingneed an update from bran on stress testing13:04
yanyanhuyes, he is not here I think13:04
QimingI myself spent some time on studying tempest13:04
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Qimingseems tempest is still the way to do api tests, but the code is suggested to live closer to individual projects13:05
Qimingso even we start work on that, we are not supposed to commit to tempest directly, will need to confirm this13:05
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haiweionly some core projects' function test are remained in tempest13:06
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Qimingif the code is to be commited to senlin, then we are still expected to use tempest lib13:06
Qimingtempest lib was a separate project, but recently it has been merged back to tempest13:06
Qiming... a lot things happen every day13:06
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Qiminghaiwei, it will be good if some one from NEC can help explain to us the right direction to go13:07
haiweiyou want to add API test?13:07
QimingI know you have some guys active on that13:07
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Qimingwe are also teaching us the right way to do stress tests13:08
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Qimingapi test, stress test and scenario test were all scope of tempest before13:08
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haiweilike I have said in mid-cycle, there is some thing called tempest external plugin13:08
Qimingbut I don't know the current situation13:08
Qimingokay, then that is the direction to go for api test13:08
Qimingany idea about stress tests?13:09
haiweithe tempest external plugin is something for scenario test13:09
Qimingare we supposed to invent our own wheel?13:09
Qimingscenario test is different from api tests13:09
haiweifor stress test, not heard it before13:09
haiweiI am not sure if tempest supports it13:09
Qimingline 24 is about api test13:10
Qimingline 39 is about scenario13:10
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Qimingline 50 is about stress test13:10
haiweioh, saw it13:10
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haiweiok, I will ask the tempest guys tomorrow13:10
Qimingnot sure that is still the consensus13:10
haiweior ask him to join Senlin IRC13:11
Qimingif we don't get an answer from them, we have to ask on -dev list13:11
Qimingokay, either way works13:11
Qimingyanyanhu is still on functional test?13:11
Qimingsaw some patches about profile level support to updates13:12
yanyanhuyes. but basic support is almost done13:12
Qimingapi surface test is important13:12
yanyanhuyea, that's what I hoped to do, but met some issues13:12
Qimingthose are supposed to test how the service fails in addition to how it succeeds13:13
yanyanhuthat I don't know how to address13:13
Qimingokay, maybe we need some experts in this field13:13
yanyanhuyes, we need to cover failure cases as well13:13
Qimingtesting is supposed to be our focus in the coming weeks13:13
Qimingnext, health management13:14
Qimingwe have a basic version of health manager and a basic health policy13:14
Qimingneed some tests on them to make sure they work, so that at least we can remove line 1613:14
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Qiminglb based health detection, yanyanhu do you know the progress?13:15
yanyanhuit's done I think13:15
yanyanhuoh, sorry13:15
yanyanhuyou mean health detection13:15
Qiminghealth monitor support part is done13:15
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yanyanhunot sure about it. Just ensure the HM support in lb policy works now13:16
Qimingwe need a poller to check it, right?13:16
yanyanhuyes, I think so13:16
yanyanhuthe poller need to check the health status of pool member13:16
yanyanhuto decide whether it is active or not13:17
Qimingyesterday, I noticed there have been some talks about HA in this channel, it turns out to be a HA team meeting13:17
Qimingyanyanhu, that is already good because we don't have to check individual nodes13:17
Qimingin that meeting, I gave people a quick update on senlin, what it is doing on HA13:18
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Qiminghopefully, we can work with more people on this to solve some real concerns from enterprise users13:18
Qimingthis will also be one of the subtopic in lixinhui's summit presentation13:19
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Qimingshe is working very hard on that, yesterday, she was working at 11pm ...13:19
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yanyanhuhard worker :)13:19
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Qiminghope we can have some thing to share soon13:20
yanyanhushe is back from party I think13:20
Qimingbasic problem is about neutron, lbaas and octavia integration13:20
cschulzSpoke with Marco on HA back a bit.  He said that simple restart of failed node was probably place to start.13:20
lixinhui_sorry for late...13:20
Qimingthanks, cschulz, for the input13:20
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Qimingwe are wondering if recovery should be really automated13:21
lixinhui_nice to catch this13:21
Qimingthere were some proponents on auto-recovery, not matter what the "recover" operation is13:21
Qimingwe can dig on that when we have some basic working code13:22
cschulzI agree that recover is a process that could be different for different customers.13:22
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Qimingcustomizability is always desired, however, we have to control the degree to which we want it to be customizable13:23
yanyanhuit really depends on the use case I think. Especially whether the app/service deployed in VM can restore automatically after restarting13:23
QimingI was thinking of the standby cluster support13:24
cschulzYes maybe we should have a list of common recovery procedures initially13:24
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Qiminghaving a standby cluster will speed up 'auto-scaling' and 'recovery'13:24
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Qimingbut it will waste some resources for sure, :)13:24
cschulzDepending on the accounting process, it may waste a lot of $13:25
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yanyanhusome nodes with role of 'backup'13:25
Qimingfor nova servers, we can do reboot, rebuild, evacuate, recreate13:25
Qimingin some cases, you will need fencing13:26
Qimingthere is no fencing API on openstack, which means, fencing has to be a per-device-model thing13:26
cschulzYes and in some cases there will be a cluster manager to get informed.13:26
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Qimingexactly, we need a division of the problem domain, work out solutions step by step13:27
Qimingstarting from the basics13:27
Qiminghow about an etherpad for this?13:28
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lixinhui_will get one up for this discussion13:28
Qimingthat way we can collect many inputs13:28
Qimingthanks, lixinhui_13:28
Qiminglet's move on13:28
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Qimingdocumentation will be my main focus in the coming weeks13:29
Qimingdocumenting use cases and the design of policies13:29
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Qimingend-to-end autoscaling story13:29
QimingI think xinhui is working on one13:30
lixinhui_I am prototyping this13:30
lixinhui_still some problem with neutron lbaas v213:30
Qimingcongrat's on your talk being accepted13:30
lixinhui_thanks for wisdom from all of you13:30
Qiminglixinhui_, any specifics we can help?13:31
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lixinhui_Thanks for suggestions on alarm side from you and yanyanhu13:31
yanyanhulixinhui_, can ceilometer generate samples of lbaas v2 pool correctly?13:31
lixinhui_accoring to my trial based half month ago13:32
lixinhui_it works13:32
lixinhui_but recently13:32
lixinhui_neutron can not13:32
lixinhui_create lbaas v2 loadbalancer successfully13:32
lixinhui_always "pending to create"13:32
yanyanhua new bug?13:33
lixinhui_I am blocked by this problem13:33
lixinhui_need to search more13:33
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Qimingah, I see, let's spend some time together tomorrow on this13:33
yanyanhuI recalled I met similar issue before, when using lbaas v113:33
Qimingseems to me like a VM creation problem13:33
yanyanhuit was caused by incorrect haproxy configuration13:33
lixinhui_Thanks in advance13:33
Qimingokay, will be online for this tomorrow13:34
yanyanhubasically, the driver of lbaas didn't work correctly13:34
Qimingnext, profile for container support13:34
yanyanhunot sure whether this is the problem you met13:34
Qimingthe profile part is easy ...13:34
Qimingthe difficult part is about scheduling13:34
Qimingwhen we have new containers to create, we have to specify a 'host' for it13:35
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Qiming(let's pretend we don't have network/storage problems at the moment)13:35
haiweiyou will start containers on vms?13:35
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Qimingthe 'host' could be a VM, it could be a physical machine13:35
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Qiminglet's start with container inside VMs, which seems a common scenario today13:36
Qimingthe VMs are created by senlin or other services13:36
Qimingwe need to do some kind of scheduling13:36
Qimingone option is to introduce mesos-alike framework, including mesos agents into guest images13:37
haiweiIf the containers run on vms, there will be two kinds of clusters at the same time13:37
Qimingthen we will still need a scheduler, e.g. marathon13:37
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Qimingusers don't need to care13:37
Qimingwe can manage the hosts for the containers13:37
Qimingin some use cases I heard of13:38
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Qimingpeople build a huge resource pool to run containers, but that huge resource (vm or physical) pool is transparent to users13:38
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Qimingone option, discussed with yanyanhu today, is to do some resource based 'host' selection13:39
Qimingthat will give us a very simple starting point to go forward13:39
haiweithe 'user' does not include cloud operator ?13:40
Qimingwe can leverage ceilometer (or others) to monitor per-vm resource availability and find a candidate node to launch the container13:40
Qimingcloud operator will know the underlying cluster of VMs13:40
Qimingthey may even need to autoscale this VM cluster to accommodate more containers13:41
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Qimingwe can start getting our hands dirty and see if this is just another 'placement' policy13:41
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Qimingbtw, congrat's to haiwei's talk proposal being accepted13:42
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Qimingwe are gonna help make that presentation a successful one13:43
haiweicurrently I can't think out one way to auto-scale containers to the vms which are not controlled by Senlin13:43
haiweiThank you for the help for session proposal13:43
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Qimingthere are two levels of entities to manage13:43
Qimingthe VM pool13:43
Qimingthe container pool13:43
haiweiI mean that vms seems not under control of Senlin13:43
yanyanhuactually, for that scenario, VM cluster have to be managed by Senlin I think13:44
Qimingwell, they may and may not be13:44
Qimingyou just need to know their IP13:44
Qimingand possibly some secrets to log into them13:44
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Qiminghaving senlin manage the two clusters makes total sense to me13:45
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Qimingwas just trying to be open minded on this13:45
Qiminghaiwei, can you help revise the specs13:45
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Qimingwe can start drilling down the details?13:46
haiweiok, I will do it13:46
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yanyanhuyes, resource(host) finding progress become necessary if the VM cluster is not created by Senlin13:46
Qimingor if a spec is not the right tool, we can use etherpads as well13:46
haiweiI can't spend much time on that recently, I will try my best to do it13:46
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Qimingwe need careful preparations for all the presentations13:47
haiweiyes, indeed13:47
Qiminglast item, rework NODE_CREATE/DELETE13:48
Qimingit has been there for a long time13:48
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Qiminglet's keep them there as is, :P13:48
Qimingdriver work13:49
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yanyanhuhave been done13:49
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Qimingit was much smoother than we had thought13:49
yanyanhujust need a little change in neutron driver13:49
Qimingthat was great13:49
yanyanhuyep :P13:49
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Qimingwe just relased mitaka-3 milestone for senlin and senlinclient last week13:49
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Qimingthat is a milestone for everyone13:50
Qimingthank you all for your contributions during to past months13:50
Qimingwe made it13:50
Qiming#topic open discussion13:50
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:50
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lixinhui_Qiming, I remember there is still a patch on senlinclient about check/recover, once13:50
lixinhui_once you -2 to avoid merge by accidently13:51
lixinhui_not sure we will merge it or not13:51
Qimingoh, yes13:51
lixinhui_at that time, the patch is blocked by sdk version13:51
Qimingthat one can be unblocked now13:52
Qimingshould have merge it into m-313:52
haiweiwhat about SDK's issue13:53
Qimingsdk version has been bumped into 0.8.113:53
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yanyanhuglobal requirement has been updated13:54
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Qiminganything else?13:55
yanyanhunope from me13:55
Qimingthanks everyone for joining13:55
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Qiminggood night/day13:56
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"13:56
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar  8 13:56:06 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)13:56
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-03-08-13.01.html13:56
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-03-08-13.01.txt13:56
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-03-08-13.01.log.html13:56
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gampelHi everyone who is here14:00
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zhonghua-leehi, gampel14:00
gampel#startmeeting Smaug14:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar  8 14:01:00 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is gampel. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Smaug)"14:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'smaug'14:01
gampelhi zhonghua-lee14:01
gampelwho is here  ?14:01
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gampel#info saggiq ,zhonghua-lee , gampel  in the meeting14:02
gampel#info xiangxinyong456 , yuval in the meeting14:02
gampelWelcome Yuval,   Please welcome yuval he joined the team this week14:03
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gampelLets start or should we wait for someone14:03
gampel#topic Smaug API v1.014:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Smaug API v1.0 (Meeting topic: Smaug)"14:03
gampel  I am the only one that approved it, please vote so we could merge tomorrow or fix it14:04
gampel#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/244756/14:04
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zhonghua-leeI will go over it later14:04
gampelare there any open issues in the  API that someone what to  talk about ?14:05
gampelwe are  Missing operation log will be added in another patch14:05
gampelsaggi will you take care of the next patch14:05
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zhonghua-leelooks good, no question14:05
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gampelyes xiangxinyong456:14:06
xiangxinyong456do you think we need the modify workflow in the version 1?14:06
gampelsaggi: ?14:06
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saggi1gampel: I don't understand the question14:07
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gampel#action saggi send another patch for the operation log14:07
gampelxiangxinyong456: can you please explain i am not sure i understand14:08
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xiangxinyong456about the update operation14:09
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gampelwhich update ?14:09
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xiangxinyong456you know we need add ,delete,select and update on the rest api14:10
gampel yes14:10
xiangxinyong456for example,modify the plan14:10
gampelwhats the work flow modification needed14:11
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gampelwhen we modify a plan it should be updated to the DB , as i discussed with @chenying  in his patch14:12
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xiangxinyong456e.g. modify the checkpoint14:12
gampelit shoudl be done only in suspended state14:12
saggi1You can't modify the checkpoint from the api14:12
saggi1except for changing the status for deletion14:12
gampelthe plan update is not relevant to the checkpoint all ready created we will serialize the plan into the checkpoint14:13
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gampeldo you see other work flow modification needed ?14:13
saggi1gampel: Checkpoint are inherently immutable14:13
xiangxinyongmodify trigger?14:14
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gampelI think if we modify a trigger we should update the operation engine14:14
gampeland update the trigger that are registered in the system14:15
saggi1plans can update but checkpoints are static data in the bank14:15
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xiangxinyonggampel: yeah, we need these workflow.14:15
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gampelxiangxinyong:  ok i agree can you create a file with all the needed workflow  and we could all verify them ?14:16
xiangxinyongok. we can gather these inforamtion and send to you14:17
gampel#action xiangxinyong will define and verify  workflow for update on all the rest API14:17
gampel#topic   REST API14:17
*** openstack changes topic to "REST API (Meeting topic: Smaug)"14:17
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gampel@chenying or @zengchen are here to update14:18
gampelzhonghua-lee: can you update the status of the REST api14:18
gampel#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/286412/14:18
gampel#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/286406/14:18
gampel#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/287036/14:19
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gampel  I think it will be good to start with the REST see how we can merge soon14:19
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gampelzhonghua-lee: can you please update the status for  @chenying and  @zengchen14:20
gampelzhonghua-lee:  ?14:20
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gampelxiangxinyong:  do you know the status of this patches ?14:21
gampelI review them all i think that they are almost there14:21
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zhonghua-leegampel: ok14:21
zhonghua-leechenying, adn chenzeng's work are in good progress14:21
gampelplease everyone review today or tomorrow so we can merge them14:21
xiangxinyonggampel: we will14:22
gampelI think we should create priority of all the patches so we could start merging14:22
gampelI think the fisrt to go in should be the REST14:22
zhonghua-leenow, we have much work on UI14:22
zhonghua-leegampel: totally greee14:22
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gampelOk next topic14:23
gampel#Protectables status   & issues14:23
gampel#topic Protectables status14:23
*** openstack changes topic to "Protectables status (Meeting topic: Smaug)"14:23
zhonghua-leeI think we should think about how to get the child resource14:24
zhonghua-leeright now , we get all volume from volume plug-in14:24
zhonghua-leeit's not easy to understand14:25
zhonghua-leeI think14:25
gampelyes each  Protectables retruns its type only on the get_child_r..14:25
saggi1zhonghua-lee: We know, it was something we thought about originally when designing the protectables.14:25
gampelwe had two option to do it top down or down to top14:25
saggi1There are two ways. Have the VM Protectable in charge of getting the dependencies of all types14:26
saggi1or have each type be reponsible for itself.14:26
zhonghua-leeyes, i know why do that but, I think we should change the method name14:26
gampelif this name is confusing no problem14:26
saggi1zhonghua-lee: I don't mind, do you have a suggestion?14:26
gampelwhats your suggestion14:26
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zhonghua-leesaggi1: how about support a method wiht filter function14:27
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gampel I am not sure i understand  ?14:27
zhonghua-leeI mean we can use the list_resouce method, and add a filter parameter14:28
zhonghua-leeso that this method can filter resource by parent resource14:29
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saggi1so changing it to filter_by_parent_resource()?14:29
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saggi1or list_by_parent_resource()?14:30
zhonghua-leesaggi1:something like that14:30
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gampelwe must provide the resource14:30
gampelas a param14:30
zhonghua-leelist_by_parent_resource sounds betterr14:30
saggi1of course14:30
saggi1the interface is the same14:30
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saggi1it's just the name14:30
zhonghua-leethere are some difference14:30
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zhonghua-leeI think "child resource" means the resource under the parent resource14:31
gampel zhonghua-lee: : I think that  what you are proposing is not possible14:31
zhonghua-leee.g. volume is the child resource of VM14:31
zhonghua-leegampel: why?14:32
gampelif it is changing the name no problem14:32
zhonghua-leegampel:it just change the name14:32
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gampelok so no problem14:32
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zhonghua-leegampel: it's just my suggestion.14:33
gampelso get_dependent_ ..14:34
gampelI am not sure i follow whats the proposed new name14:34
yuvalget_dependent_resources() ?14:35
gampelOk fine with me14:35
zhonghua-leesome like that, whatever do not contain the "child"14:35
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gampelOk saggi lets vote14:36
gampelsaggi: whats you view I am fine with both14:36
zengyingzhe_what's the options?14:36
gampelHi welcome :)14:37
gampelget_dependent_resources( parent)14:37
zengyingzhe_sorry i'm late.14:37
gampeland list_resource_by_parent14:37
gampelno problem14:37
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gampelzengyingzhe_: we need an update of the protactable status14:37
gampelOk lets vote get_dependent_resources( parent) or  list_resource_by_parent14:38
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saggi1I'm partial to get_dependent_resources14:39
zengyingzhe_get_dependent_resources +114:39
gampelok we got a winer14:39
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gampel#action rename fetch_child to  get_dependent_resources14:40
zengyingzhe_OK, i'll change this method name tomorrow.14:40
gampelzengyingzhe_: can you please  update of the protactable status14:40
zengyingzhe_you mean at etherpad?14:41
gampelno i mean the patches14:41
gampel#link   o    ProtectableRegistry https://review.openstack.org/#/c/281783/14:42
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gampel#link   oCinder https://review.openstack.org/#/c/285611/314:42
gampel#link   Nova https://review.openstack.org/#/c/286542/314:42
gampel#link   protectable RPC handlers https://review.openstack.org/#/c/285921/14:42
gampelwhats the status and what are we still missing14:43
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gampelzengyingzhe_:  ?14:44
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zengyingzhe_OK, i got it.14:44
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saggiHi, got disconnected14:44
gampelwelcome back14:45
zhonghua-leeright now , nove,cinder plug-in are ready14:45
saggigood jobs!14:45
zhonghua-leehow about network,image plug-in?14:45
gampelvery good job please ask everyone top review them so we could merge tomorrow14:45
gampelyuval do you want to take glace image14:45
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gampelnetworking should be easy as we look at it as one entity14:46
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zengyingzhe_I'll start to work on rest protectable plugins tomorrow.14:46
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gampelI think we all ready merged it14:47
gampel@chenying  did it14:47
zhonghua-leegampel:yeah, but after review :)14:47
gampelLets skip the    ·         Protection Plugin & Service14:48
gampelI think that the developers of that part  are not here14:48
gampel#topic UI dashboard status14:48
*** openstack changes topic to "UI dashboard status (Meeting topic: Smaug)"14:48
gampel xiangxinyong or zhonghua-lee do you what to update on the status14:49
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xiangxinyongi have submit two patches, please review them14:49
saggixiangxinyong: it's in my queue14:49
gampelyes in mine as well14:49
gampelplease ask all tyhe team to review it as well14:49
gampelare there any issues  ?14:50
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gampelopen issues ?14:50
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xiangxinyongnot yet14:50
zengyingzhe_Has the protectable resource paging issue discussed yet?14:50
gampellet discuss this @chenying  include it in his REST patch14:51
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gampelbut we can push the RPC and Plugin part to second phase14:51
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gampelxiangxinyong:  :) very good job keep us up to date and will try to review14:52
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gampel zengyingzhe_:  what do you think14:52
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zengyingzhe_I don't see why we need paging for protectable resources.14:53
xiangxinyonggampel: np14:53
zengyingzhe_it's represented as a graph14:53
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gampelyes but the user can access the API  of only a Volume lets say and a user could have 1000014:54
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saggiWe might need it if the user has a lot of VMS14:54
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saggiSo in the UI we'll need to page it14:54
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zhonghua-leeespecially the method "list_resource"14:55
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saggiFor dependencies we might not need ti14:55
saggisince we need to hold them all in memory anyway14:55
saggibut listing could be a problem14:55
xiangxinyongbut how to paging for protectable resources in a tree structure?14:56
gampeli agree it is not argent but  from user experience and performance  it will be required      in second phase14:56
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xiangxinyongbecause the resource is listed by a tree14:56
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zengyingzhe_this means we must record all resources info in some place, such as DB or memory14:57
zhonghua-leexiangxinyong: you mean UI?14:57
zengyingzhe_right now, there's no such implementation.14:57
gampelYes if the user as 10000 VMs you will have to show all the VMs and it will probebly take a very long time14:57
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xiangxinyongzhonghua-lee: yeah.14:57
saggiMost openstack listing APIs support paging so we just forward it.14:57
gampelI think that we will have to support this but it can be done in second phase14:58
zhonghua-leexiangxinyong:we can use async loading14:58
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xiangxinyongzhonghua-lee: the resources are listed in a tree.14:58
gampel zengyingzhe_: do you agree14:58
xiangxinyongzhonghua-lee: it is not related with async and sync.14:58
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zhonghua-leexiangxinyong: what's th problem14:58
dnearyJoining a few minutes late today14:59
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zengyingzhe_gampel, yes, i'll think through it to find how to implement.14:59
gampelwe could open a bug about it so we will not forget and currently be focused on the end to end integration14:59
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gampelso we could merge all teh  protactabole patchs14:59
dnearySorry - wrong channel14:59
xiangxinyongzhonghua-lee: the resource is listed by parent, i page the whole tree15:00
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gampel#action zengyingzhe_ open a bug about the pagination support in the protactable15:00
gampelsorry thank you every one15:00
gampelour time is done15:00
gampelby end thank you for all the good work15:00
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zhonghua-leexiangxinyong:let's disucss later15:00
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zengyingzhe_Thank you all, bye15:01
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gampel #endmeeting15:01
xiangxinyongzhonghua-lee: ok15:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar  8 15:01:09 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/smaug/2016/smaug.2016-03-08-14.01.html15:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/smaug/2016/smaug.2016-03-08-14.01.txt15:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/smaug/2016/smaug.2016-03-08-14.01.log.html15:01
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openstackcznewt: Error: A meeting name is required, e.g., '#startmeeting Marketing Committee'16:06
cznewt#startmeeting cznewt16:06
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar  8 16:06:30 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is cznewt. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.16:06
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:06
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cznewt)"16:06
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'cznewt'16:06
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liqw#topic openstack-salt16:07
Clintyou'll want to #endmeeting and start over16:07
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"16:08
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar  8 16:08:22 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)16:08
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cznewt/2016/cznewt.2016-03-08-16.06.html16:08
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cznewt/2016/cznewt.2016-03-08-16.06.txt16:08
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cznewt/2016/cznewt.2016-03-08-16.06.log.html16:08
cznewt#startmeeting openstack-salt16:08
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar  8 16:08:45 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is cznewt. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.16:08
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:08
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack-salt)"16:08
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstack_salt'16:08
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cznewt#topic roll call16:10
*** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: openstack-salt)"16:10
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cznewt#topic Introduction16:11
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*** openstack changes topic to "Introduction (Meeting topic: openstack-salt)"16:11
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cznewtThis meeting for the openstack-salt team16:12
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cznewtif you're interested in contributing to the discussion, please join #openstack-salt16:12
cznewt#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/#OpenStack_Salt_Team_Meeting16:12
cznewt#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/openstack-salt16:12
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cznewticeyao: hello16:12
cznewt#topic Review past action items16:13
*** openstack changes topic to "Review past action items (Meeting topic: openstack-salt)"16:13
cznewtwe'll go though items from last meeting, but as most of the members have gone away for today's meeting we'll go to todays issues16:14
cznewtgenunix tlo continue researching openstack packaging16:15
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cznewtgenunix is way is away fot this week, will forward to next week's meeting16:16
cznewt#action genunix to continue researching openstack packaging16:16
cznewtnext topic Research building RPMs using the openstack-ci16:17
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cznewtany news?16:17
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cznewtarif-ali is not present either, postponing till next week's meeting16:19
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cznewt#action Continue to research building RPMs using the openstack-ci16:19
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cznewtResearch big tent.  Determine which of our salt-formula-* projects should fall under the big tent umbrella, and which of the more host-generic formulas should be pushed up to the salt community16:19
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cznewtthis is being handled, we trying to reach salt community on this16:20
cznewttopic, but the problem is that most of the presented formulas already exist in the salt community16:21
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cznewtI'll give resolution when we have some answers16:21
cznewttalk to the  -infra team about using the openstack ci pipeline for building RPMs and more discussion needed on testing the RH stack16:22
cznewtAny update on this?16:22
cznewtIf not we'll move to today's agenda16:23
cznewt#topic Today's Agenda16:23
*** openstack changes topic to "Today's Agenda (Meeting topic: openstack-salt)"16:23
liqwfor those who are willing to test openstack-salt formulas and heat stack.. we still provide http://openstack-salt.tcpcloud.eu/develop/quickstart-heat.html16:23
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cznewticeyao: hello, can you introduce yourself, today's meeting is a little undermanned, as snow has fallen in czech :)16:24
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iceyaoI'm from 99cloud and I major in devops now16:27
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cznewtDo you at 99 deploy openstack using salt, or plan on to it?16:28
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cznewtI have some news about heat deployment labs16:28
iceyaoyeah, using salt deploy openstack now16:28
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cznewtWe have the labs single/cluster ready and tested16:29
iceyaoOnly on Centos716:29
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iceyaocznewt: I can test it16:29
cznewtfor ubntu for now, but the redhat based is ready but not tested16:30
cznewtyes, I can give you the password to the lab, so you can deploy the stack to start testing16:30
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cznewtthe steps are covered in temporary documentations16:30
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cznewt#link http://openstack-salt.tcpcloud.eu/develop/quickstart-heat.html16:31
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cznewticeyao: what version do you deploy / what networking?16:31
cznewtat your production deploys16:31
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iceyaocznewt: I found that doc using heat to deploy16:33
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iceyaoit can deploy on baremental centos os ?16:33
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cznewtyes, if you setup the minions in the same way as in the heat-based lab16:35
cznewtthis is something we would like to have tested16:35
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cznewtwe can give you support if you want to proceed testing on bare metal servers16:36
iceyaoI see16:36
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cznewtthe setup is centos7 nodes, cluster or single deploy you'll try?16:36
iceyaoI'll try aio first16:37
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cznewtand about networking, what plugin do you use? vanilla or some vendor SDN?16:38
iceyaouse ovs now16:38
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cznewt#action iceyao to test the centos aio deployment16:39
iceyaoDoes it suppourt ovs or linux bridge ?16:41
cznewtWe'll the support for ovs is a little outdated now, but you're welcome to make it up-2-date16:41
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Tux_I would like to see ovs work as well16:42
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cznewt#action get the neutron formula with OVS support ready16:44
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cznewtI'll get ready the ticket on launchpad, the OVS support is must have16:45
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cznewticeyao: when do you plan on testing the aio setup?16:46
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cznewtthe current setup works with opencontrail networking16:46
iceyaothis week.16:47
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iceyaoI may need your help , I'm not familiar with opencontrail16:48
liqwiceyao: if you look at http://openstack-salt.tcpcloud.eu/develop/quickstart-heat.html#testing-lab-at-tcp-cloud there's 'Openstack-salt single setup' which are 3 nodes. maybe it's easier to do the first test on virtual environment (lab).16:48
cznewtyes, the only thing that we'll need to be fixed for centos deloyment is the repository definition16:49
iceyaoliqw: thanks16:49
cznewtfor now it supports the ubuntu cloud archive repos16:50
iceyaohow can I do for repository definition?16:50
cznewticeyao: we'll get the repo setup ready tomorrow with the heat stack, so it's testable in heat setup16:51
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cznewticeyao: we are getting short on time, we'll continue to discuss this further on #openstack-salt channel16:52
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cznewt#action prepare the repositories for redhat deployments16:53
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cznewticeyao: do you have spare time to get the ovs support in salt formulas fixed?16:54
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iceyaoI try my best16:55
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cznewt#action look at getting OVS networking working16:57
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iceyaoCan you modify the meeting time next ? I live in Asia/ShangHai16:57
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cznewtwell, we have already us/europe members16:58
cznewtwhat time is it for you?16:59
cznewtthe time is up we'll continue at openstack-salt16:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"16:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar  8 16:59:57 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)16:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_salt/2016/openstack_salt.2016-03-08-16.08.html17:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_salt/2016/openstack_salt.2016-03-08-16.08.txt17:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_salt/2016/openstack_salt.2016-03-08-16.08.log.html17:00
iceyaowhat about utc 1400 ?17:00
asselin#startmeeting third-party17:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar  8 17:00:19 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is asselin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)"17:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'third_party'17:00
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asselinanyone here for 3rd party working meeting?17:01
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mmedvedehi asselin17:01
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* mmedvede was fighting fires17:02
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asselinhi mmedvede17:02
asselinfires under control?17:02
asselin#topic announcements17:03
*** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: third-party)"17:03
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asselinany announcements?17:03
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asselin#topic CI Watch17:03
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mmedvedeno news since last meeting17:04
mmedvede#link ciwatch unittests review queue https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack-infra/ciwatch+branch:feature/unit-tests+topic:ci-dashboard17:04
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asselinAnything specific? or just review all of them?17:05
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mmedvedeI was not merging any of it yet, asselin feel free +2 if you think it works well17:05
asselinwill do17:05
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mmedvedeasselin: so I realized that we can not merge from master or back to master yet17:06
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asselinoh? what does that mean exactly17:06
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mmedvedethere are fixes on master that I'd like to get backported17:06
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mmedvedeasselin: you can not push merge commits, need special permissions17:07
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* mmedvede looks for patch17:07
asselinI thought we enabled that17:07
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mmedvede#link https://review.openstack.org/#q,Ie645ef86551de74e3f53b8405e0d00f73f9c9b41,n,z17:07
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mmedvedeasselin: no, we did not. And you also need to be a member of ciwatch-release group, which now only has infra in it17:08
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asselinyeah seein ghtat17:08
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asselinok I can ask about adding us to that17:10
asselinanything else?17:10
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mmedvedeno, I think we can finally add some real unit tests next17:11
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asselinok cool!17:11
asselin#topic Common-CI Solution17:11
*** openstack changes topic to "Common-CI Solution (Meeting topic: third-party)"17:11
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asselinonly new issue is that the current docs basically ask users to reuse openstack-infra/system-config17:13
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asselinand this points to some pip sites that aren't recommended or accessible outside of -infra.17:13
mmedvedefor install_modules.sh and image building, correct?17:13
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asselinand install_puppet.sh17:14
asselinbut that one is less of a concern than the ones you mention17:14
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mmedvedeI see no problems with reusing install_puppet and modules17:14
asselinso there's a need to perhaps make image building more easily reusable by 3rd party folks17:14
mmedvedeimage building is confusing matters though17:14
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mmedvedethere is dib image builds, and there is image update that e.g. uses prepare_node.sh17:15
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mmedvedeasselin: we could just say that image building is up to third-party CI maintainers, and see system-config for example17:16
asselinyeah....that's bascially what it says now....but folks are having trouble with 'how to debug and maintain' image builds.17:17
mmedvedeanother way is to create a separate spec for pulling image building out17:17
mmedvede(I think it is a big effort)17:17
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asselinyeah. Not sure who'd do the work though....maybe if we write the spec we'll find some volunteers to drive the effort?17:18
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mmedvedeIt is tricky to estimate what it would take. I am familiar with prepare_node way. Less so with dib17:20
asselinit's basically the same thing17:21
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mmedvedeyes, both simply running bunch of scripts to get images ready17:21
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mmedvedeone of them involves puppet though17:22
asselinthey both do, actually17:22
mmedvedethey do? I thought dib just used elements17:22
asselinyes, and the element calls puppet :)17:22
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mmedvededo some of those elements apply some puppet manifests from system-config?17:22
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asselinelements are just script snippets. DIB composes them wherease snapshot-images you have to compose them17:23
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asselin#link https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/project-config/tree/nodepool/elements/puppet/bin/prepare-node17:24
mmedvedeyou see, for me it is hard to imagine how to abstract image building puppet manifests from system-config. Our images have a lot of custom setup in them17:24
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asselinbascially class {'openstack_project::single_use_slave': needs to be openstackci::signle_use_slave17:25
mmedvedeasselin: yes, but it might pull in a whole lot of things with it17:26
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asselinyes, probably need to strip it down a bit17:26
mmedvedeit is also very specific for building only particular type of images17:26
asselinthese are for the devstack images which (I think) is the common case for 3rd party ci17:26
mmedvedeI mean, some people might use different OS, or arch (points finger at self)17:27
asselinactually maybe only this is needed: https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/system-config/tree/modules/openstack_project/manifests/single_use_slave.pp#n4317:28
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asselin#link but slave_common.pp also looks important: https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/system-config/tree/modules/openstack_project/manifests/slave_common.pp17:30
asselinanyway perhaps these can be done in project-config-example17:30
asselininstead of asking users to copy from project-config17:30
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asselinbut we should write a spec to detail the work and get more feedback17:32
asselin#action asselin write a spec to create image builds reusable by 3rd party ci17:32
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asselin#topic Open Discussion17:33
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: third-party)"17:33
mmedvedeasselin: maybe start with etherpad instead first, just to iterate initial work estimate quicker?17:33
asselinmmedvede, sure, good idea17:34
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asselinanything else to discuss?17:34
mmedvedeI have already discussed apparent zuul memory leak during Mon meeting17:35
mmedvede(there is also email thread)17:35
mmedvedeSo if anyone else experiences higher memory footprint of zuul-server, please speak up17:36
asselinI haven't noticed it on our end. I'll have to check which version we're using17:37
mmedvedeit is slow (if it is a leak), about 500Mb a day17:37
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mmedvedeso on my VM with 8GB could take a whole week or longer17:37
mmedvedebefore crashing17:38
asselinwe're on this version: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/262579/17:38
mmedvede#link zuul memory leak thread http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2016-March/003971.html17:38
mmedvedeasselin: what version shows up on the bottom of zuul ui?17:39
asselinZuul version:17:39
asselinZuul version: 2.1.1.dev12117:39
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mmedvedelooks like the one before the patch that should fix the leak. So if anything, you should see more problems17:41
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mmedvedeasselin: do you know if your zuul gets restarted regurarly?17:41
asselinwe did restart it 'regularly' but due to other issues17:41
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asselinwhich patch fixes the leak?17:42
mmedvedeasselin: allegedly fixes the leak17:42
asselinsorry....alegedly :)17:42
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mmedvede#link https://review.openstack.org/#q,I81ee47524cda71a500c55a95a2280f491b1b63d9,n,z17:42
mmedvedeasselin: ^17:43
asselinok thanks17:43
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asselinanyone else around have something to discuss?17:45
mmedvedeI think zuul.o.o just recently got updated to the most recent version, so would be interesting to see if they have the same problem17:45
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asselinyeah. I'm going to pay more attention to ours.17:46
asselinmmedvede, anything else to discuss?17:48
asselinok thanks for the good discussion17:48
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:49
mmedvedethank you asselin17:49
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar  8 17:49:03 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:49
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-03-08-17.00.html17:49
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-03-08-17.00.txt17:49
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-03-08-17.00.log.html17:49
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dstanekit's almost time!17:59
bknudsonget ready!18:00
dstanekping ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, ericksonsantos, geoffarnold, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, joesavak, lbragstad, lhcheng, marekd, morganfainberg, nkinder, raildo, rodrigods, roxanaghe, samueldmq, shaleh, stevemar, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong, claudiub, rderose, samleon, xek, MaxPC, tjcocozz, jorge_munoz18:00
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ayoungdstanek, you running it today?18:00
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dstanekayoung: yep, not much to run so i think that's why stevemar asked me :-)18:00
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ayoungdstanek, I think he is training a replacement18:00
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dstanek#startmeeting keystone18:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar  8 18:01:25 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is dstanek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:01
dstanek#topic there are no topics - any late topics that need discussion?18:01
*** openstack changes topic to "there are no topics - any late topics that need discussion? (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:01
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henrynashdstanek: I tried to add one thing to the agend (but couldn’t save)...18:01
dstanekmany of us are bug squashing today...18:01
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dstanekhenrynash: what's the topic?18:01
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henrynashdstanek: just like clarification of the directory structure of unit tests…18:02
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henrynashdstanek: now that we are moving these all around18:02
dstanek#topic just like clarification of the directory structure of unit tests18:02
*** openstack changes topic to "just like clarification of the directory structure of unit tests (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:02
dstanekhenrynash: fire away18:02
bknudsonthe test file should be the same as the code file18:02
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henrynashbknudson: example?18:03
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bknudsonso if the code is in keystone/resource/backends/sql.py then the test is keystone/tests/unit/resource/backends/test_sql.py18:03
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bknudsonthen it's easy to find what test file you need to change18:03
dstanekbknudson: I agree that we should be moving that way for all unit tests18:04
henrynashbknudson: and the test_backends.py file sists in the unit/resource dir in your example18:04
ayoungbknudson, so we are not going to push for v2 vs v3 dir under test/unit?18:04
ayoungI'm OK with that18:04
dstaneki'm ok with small tests to get us there. like we have, i think, a keystone/tests/unit/assignment/test_backends.py or something like that18:04
ayounghenrynash, judgement there18:04
bknudsonthere are integration tests and there are component tests18:05
ayounghenrynash, I'd say put it in  keystone/tests/unit/resource/backends/18:05
bknudsonmost of our unit tests should be component tests18:05
ayoungtest_backend should not be named as such18:05
dstanekayoung: the old test_backends.py is now gone18:05
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ayounger..wait, which is the actual executable test file?18:05
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ayoungtest_sql, which calls into the common file, whatever that is now, right?18:05
bknudsonas in, the tests should test a single component and not cross component boundaries18:05
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henrynashbknudson: agreed18:06
dstanekbknudson: ++18:06
ayounghttp://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/keystone/tree/keystone/tests/unit/identity/test_core.py  right?18:06
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ayounggonna make it a pain to refactor the fernet-default code, but still worth it.18:07
henrynashbknudson, dstanek: but right now we have test_backends.py (split up it their single components tests) NOT in the , say, resource/backend dir…but i the one above18:07
bknudsonhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/289058/ is my first stab at a component test for backends.18:07
bknudsonwell, test_backends is really cross-component tests and not component tests, so it's wrong to begin with18:07
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henrynashbknduson: even the split up vesions are wroung, iyho?18:08
bknudsontest_backends is really testing the manager and not the drivers18:08
henrynashbknudson: ahh, different (and accurate) issue18:08
dstanekhenrynash: only in that they do too much in the tests18:08
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ayounghenrynash, all good?18:09
bknudsonso what I'd like to see is like https://review.openstack.org/#/c/289058/ where there's tests for the driver interface, and those run on all the drivers18:09
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henrynashdstanek: and many of the unit/component dirst have test_core.py as well18:09
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henrynashwhat’s that mean to do?18:09
bknudsonand then test_backends becomes test_manager and tests the manager with a canonical backend (sql, I guess)18:10
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ayoungif the logic is 100% the same between backeds, it goes in core18:10
ayoungtest_sql etc just the one offs and setup code18:10
dstanekhenrynash: my ultimate fantasy would be a patter to map from code.py to test_code.py that always works18:11
amakarov_We should use functional tests for backends18:11
bknudsonI should have said test_core not test_manager since the managers live in core.py18:11
henrynashayoung: ahh, so most of test_backends.py whould end up in test_core.py?18:11
ayoungI'd expect so, yes18:11
henrynashayoung: right, got it18:11
henrynashdstanek: yep, get it18:11
ayoungso... let's talk Newton18:12
dstanekhenrynash: all good?18:12
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henrynashdstanek: yep thx18:13
ayoungdstanek, I didn't add to the agenda, but we really need to discuss post-mitaka plans18:13
dstanek#topic {fig} newton18:13
*** openstack changes topic to "{fig} newton (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:13
dstanekayoung: sounds good to me18:13
bknudsonare fig newtons cookies?18:13
ayoungOK,  so, between now and the start of N1 opening up, we need to prioritize the basis for the new features we want to land in Newton18:13
ayoungIf we wait until the Summit, it won;'t happen18:14
ayoungthis is based on what I have seen in all releases from Diablo on forward18:14
amakarov_ayoung: +118:14
gyeeayoung, what's your hit list?18:14
ayoungat this point, onus is on the spec owners to keep them up to date, address issues, and get the specs clean18:14
ayoungfor me, that means dynaimc RBAC policy18:15
ayoungthere are a lot of details to work out in getting a policy framework that actually supports fine grained delegation18:15
bknudsonwhen does N1 open up?18:15
gyeewhatever happen to common policy scenarios18:15
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shalehayoung: maybe a list of specs should be gathered like we did when Mitaka started18:15
ayounggyee, that is right up there18:15
ayoungI'll link18:15
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ayoungCommon policy https://review.openstack.org/#/c/245629/18:16
gyeetoo many chef in the kitchen for that one I guess18:16
ayoung#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/245629/18:16
samueldmqhi, sorry I am late18:16
bknudsonlooks like N1 will open up Apr 4-818:16
ayoung#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/279379/18:16
ayounggyee, well, I think I want to split common policy into two parts18:16
dstanekayoung: yes, we should be getting specs approved and ready to work on too18:16
ayoungone is the top level roles, and the second is the fine grained permissions18:16
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shalehayoung: makes sense18:17
ayoungalso, I need to wake amakarov_ up, but unified delegation needs to start making progress, too, if we want it in18:17
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ayoungand they really are related18:17
amakarov_I want to come up with something working to the end of March18:17
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ayounggyee, I think those three, related efforts, are the burning platform.  I'd like them in, if experimental, in Newton, so they can be supported in Ocata long term18:18
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gyeeayoung, agreed18:18
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shalehplus we have the MFA ground work to lay18:19
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ayoungOn the dynamic RBAC policy, we are going to need a way to store the policy in the Database.  I am leaning towards storing it rule by rule as opposed to blob based18:19
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ayounghenrynash and I have a RBAC talk accepted at this summit. I'd like to be able to lay out the expected future of RBAC at the end of that talk18:19
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ayoungis there anything else that people see as major features desired for Newton or later?18:20
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shalehwhat is th status of shadow users?18:20
rderoseshadow ldap users18:21
bknudsonit would be great to have an ldap driver that works with python318:21
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shalehbknudson: ++++18:21
gyeeyeah, stablization, less moving stuff18:21
dstanekwe want to finish up shadow users, mfa and better DB upgrades this cycle18:21
henrynashI’ll be working with ayoung on some of the RBAC stuff, but will also be (re)propsoing the reseller phase 2 stuff18:21
shalehdstanek: *this?18:21
dstanekshaleh: N, i'm already in the future man18:22
brownebknudson: i wouldn't mind helping with that18:22
gyeev2 retirement party18:22
shalehgyee: ++18:22
ayoungbknudson, is LDAP Py3 within our control to affect?18:22
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dstanekayoung: morgan had ideas on a replacement library18:23
gyeeversioned endpoints retirement party18:23
bknudsonayoung: I guess we could always for ldappool?18:23
bknudsonor we just start over with a new driver that uses ldap3 driver18:23
morganldap3 has a pool built in18:23
ayoungso we ahvea plan, just need to execute on it?18:23
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shalehldap3 always seemed like the logical choice18:24
morgani'd ideally ask we write an isolate read-only ldap3 driver18:24
morganand deprecate all the old ldap code18:24
morgannot try and retrofit things in18:24
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morganit's a lot of work to make the current stuff ldap3 working18:24
bknudsondo we want a spec for ldap3?18:24
shalehmorgan: that does not sound too crazy actually18:24
ayoungmorgan, is an sssd based approach viable?18:24
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bknudsonI think you can already do sssd?18:25
gyeeayoung, last I checked, sssd wasn't ready for prime time18:25
morganayoung: i think it could be separately, but no not as a replacement18:25
morganayoung: we need to support ldap-current model, sssd would be a different/separate dirver18:25
bknudsonyou could use federation for ldap18:25
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morganwe aren't deprecating direct ldap access [if we were it would be easier]18:26
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morganthen SSSD would be more viable.18:26
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ayoungmorgan, did we deprecate writable LDAP ?18:26
morganayoung: in .. liberty? this cycle? we did18:26
morgani remember we did.18:26
bknudsonthis is where it would be nice to have unit tests for the driver interface18:27
morganit's got a run on it stil. also ldap3 is fully py3 compat18:27
gyeeSSSD is not read-only LDAP, just to be cleared18:27
ayoungOK, so we can yank that in +2 from deprecation.  At that point, yeah, we can pull a lot of the LDAP code out and toss it18:27
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ayounggyee, right18:27
shalehayoung: if we did most of the work now in N, marked it experimental it could go live in O18:27
morgani think ldap3 is the right choice fwiw. an sssd alternative would be good to have too long term18:27
ayoungthey are two different stages18:27
ayoungmorgan, SSSD works now, and several releases back18:28
morgansome deployments are going to get grumpy if we prescribe "needing" binary SSSD to access ldap18:28
morgansince we have not gone on record for that.18:28
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morganand have said we are maintaining the current model when we were previously asked18:28
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ayoungmorgan, agreed.  Just want to minimize the amount of effort needed for the existing LDAP code18:29
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ayoungIE..rewriting it to yank write access is minimal gain18:29
ayoungbut would be a lovely Masters Thesis project, IMHO18:29
morganexisting ldap code can pretty much sit - ldap3 is py3 and isolating the ldap code18:29
bknudsonit's the tests that are the problem with converting to ldap318:30
morgansince ldap3 has pool capabilities etc18:30
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morganand ldap3 is far far more pythonic18:30
bknudsonand probably config options are going to be different18:30
henrynashayoung: I’m expecting us to have problems trying to pull the writeable LDAP in +2 anyway….I think it will take longer18:30
morganalso ldap3 is pure python18:30
morganwhich is a win18:30
dstanekbknudson: we'll need a new fake! or a better way...18:30
ayoung(driver selection based on [identity]/driver` option is deprecated and will be removed in the "O" release).'),18:31
bknudsonif we have real unit tests for identity drivers we don't need a fake ldap like we did, can get away with mock.18:31
brownewhat about mockldap?18:31
ayoungthat is not the same as writable...18:31
gyeeI've got this funny feeling that if we are going for this full PCI thingy, writable LDAP may stick around :-)18:31
dstanekbrowne: mockldap is pretty interesting18:32
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bknudsonif mockldap works with ldap3 then that's fine.18:32
dstanekwho is going to spec this out?18:33
ayoungWrite support for Identity LDAP backends has been deprecated in the M  release and will be removed in the O release."18:33
tjcocozz_mockldap looks like it works with python-ldap18:33
bknudsonmaybe we'll wind up writing our own mockldap318:34
gyeewhy do we care about mockldap, isn't ldap all func tests?18:34
ayoung#link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/keystone/commit/?id=99a427833b70164e974c0d17b093dfbce695281318:34
shalehtjcocozz_: yeah, but either a) we help port it to the new lib or b) we come up with a similar layer for ldap318:34
shalehtjcocozz_: either is better than the current fake we are maintaining18:35
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bknudsonall reviews should be author stevemar, code-review +2 stevemar, workflow+1 stevemar18:35
tjcocozz_shaleh, that would be an interesting way of going about it18:35
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dstanekthere is also the real fakeldap project18:36
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morganayoung: i uh.. no. so we're deprecating SQL driver too?18:36
shalehlike I said a few minutes ago, it sounds like what we need is an etherpad with viable specs for N18:36
morganayoung: oh wit nvm.18:36
morganayoung: i misread18:36
morganayoung: nvm...18:36
bknudsonfakeldap looks like python-ldap, too18:36
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dstanekbknudson: hmm... i though it was more of a generic server18:37
dstanekmaybe we'll have some work to do18:37
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ayoungthis would be a great "Hey I want to get into Keystone" project for a new contributor18:37
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dstanekso do we have a spec or who will write it for ldap?18:37
bknudsonI wouldn't want to do the work to write up an ldap3 until we've got tests for the driver interface.18:38
bknudsonbecause the way the drivers are tested now is just going to mean all the tests run 20 times instead of 6 like they do now18:38
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ayoungbknudson, can you won the specs on that, and I'll help find coders?18:39
bknudsonI can write up a spec18:39
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dstanek#action bknudson to write up a spec for ldap!18:40
ayoungcool. So, any other long term plans for Keystone that we should all be aware of?18:40
gyeeayoung, small things, like revocation event optimization18:41
ayounggyee, ah, good point18:41
ayoungFernet default18:41
ayoungI had working code for "liveness" checks replacing many of the revocation events18:41
lbragstadayoung patch?18:42
gyeebetter logging to make it easier to monitor18:42
shalehgyee: I was typing that as you were18:42
ayoungIE.  instead of revoke by project, just chekc at token validation time if the project exists and is active18:42
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ayounglbragstad, sure18:42
shalehmake INFO actually usable for operators18:42
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amakarov_What about adding missing federation features to the os-cli? Is this job done already?18:42
ayoung#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/285134/  Remove unneeded revocation events18:42
shalehamakarov_: all of the pieces exist now. Someone just needs to synthesize an interface18:43
ayoungamakarov_, I think it is in the CLI, just not in Puppet18:43
shalehamakarov_: it was on my plan but I am not hacking on federation currently18:43
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ayoungwhat is missing from CLI?18:43
shalehayoung: --use-this-SP18:43
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shalehayoung: --with-this-type-of-auth18:43
ayoungshaleh, K2K is not Federation18:44
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amakarov_ayoung, shaleh: couple of months ago there was no way to register a service provider for ex.18:44
marekdis ksa merged into osc?18:44
ayoungOK, so please tag that stuff as K2K, as calling it Federation is really confusing.18:44
amakarov_ayoung: got it18:44
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gyeeayoung, what do you call K2K?18:44
ayounggyee, using  Keystone token in one Keystone via SAML to get a Keystone token in another18:45
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amakarov_gyee: it's when IdP is a Keystone in another cloud18:45
ayoungSP is only there for that case, not basic K2K18:45
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ayoungright, what he said bettern I did18:45
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shalehamakarov_: for K2K, the only bit outside of Keystone API is setting up the SAML bits inside shibboleth or whatever.18:46
ayounggyee, forget it18:46
amakarov_shaleh: ack, thank you18:46
dstanek#action dstanek to summarize the list of things people mentioned as need in N18:47
ayoungSo any other major items we need for Newton ?18:47
dstanekdo we have any other topics?18:47
gyeedstanek, that's a bucket-full already!18:47
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dstanekgyee: overflowing18:47
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dstanekwhat else is new?18:48
bknudsonlooks like we can skip the summit since we've got it all taken care of18:48
dstanekbknudson: ++18:48
bknudsonwe'll be out by the pool18:48
shalehbknudson: nah, we need to sit together and argue some more.18:48
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shalehbknudson: come to an agreement. Then have morgan change his mind and derail things.18:48
gyeenow we finally have time to wait for Franklin BBQ18:48
* shaleh hugs morgan18:48
dstanek#open open discussion18:48
morganshaleh: i've removed my -2s btw18:49
morganshaleh: but whatever :P18:49
shalehmorgan: for now :-)18:49
morganshaleh: even told gyee18:49
morganshaleh: forever.18:49
dstanekmorgan: put them back18:49
morgandstanek: nope.18:49
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dstanekif there's no real work conversation we can call the meeting early18:49
morgandstanek: mostly cause i can't login to launchpad :P18:49
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ayoungmorgan and I are tag teaming to add up to 1 termie18:49
lbragstadi have a question18:49
shalehmorgan: but, I need your disapproval to give me a reason to keep hacking.18:49
ayoungHe -2s and I derail conversations in IRC18:49
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lbragstadthoughts on the validity of https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1552795 ?18:50
openstackLaunchpad bug 1552795 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "enhance notification for user events with user name" [Wishlist,In progress] - Assigned to Lance Bragstad (lbragstad)18:50
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gyeelbragstad, username is not worldly unique18:50
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bknudsondo we still have 2 kinds of notifications?18:50
bknudsoncadf and whatever else they're called?18:50
lbragstadbknudson yes - kinda18:50
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lbragstadbknudson you can either have 'basic' or 'cadf' notifications18:51
bknudsondoes cadf have a field for user name?18:51
gyeebut I am also working on https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/153796318:51
openstackLaunchpad bug 1537963 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "notification not generated for authentication failure with invalid user name" [Wishlist,In progress] - Assigned to Guang Yee (guang-yee)18:51
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lbragstadcadf notifications just include information about the initiator i believe?18:51
ayoungBTW, Audit events from Keystone are totally spoofable18:51
ayoungas are any other messages on the bus18:51
bknudsonyou better protect your bus18:52
ayoungDoes anyone protect the bus?18:52
gyeebknudon, non-repudiation is what we need18:52
gyeenot about the transport18:52
ayounggyee, wrong18:52
ayoungit is about the transport, too18:52
bknudsonif I could spoof messages I'd start booting instances, too18:52
dstanekwhere's Keanu when you need him18:52
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ayoungwhat we need is access control18:52
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ayoungideally, only Keystone would be able to write to the keystone topic18:53
ayoungbut writing that as a regex would be frightening18:53
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ayoungwe should at a minimun have a keystone rabbit user on localhost18:54
gyeeayoung, still can run into man-in-the-middle18:54
ayoungand set up the acl that only the Keystone user can write to the keystone topic18:54
lbragstadi'm going to put the patch I was working on for adding usernames to notifications on hold then (and review other bug fixes instead)18:55
dstanekthere's also message signing18:55
ayounggyee, nah, not if we configure the broker right18:55
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ayoungbroker can enforce that keystone is local and is the only writer, or we need to set up TLS for distrbituted, and use X509 for client auth18:55
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ayounggyee, simplest case:  keystone is a localhost user, only keystone user can write to the keystone topic18:56
dstaneklbragstad: that sounds like a plan; i want to read over that bug18:56
ayoungeverything else extends from there18:56
lbragstaddstanek i'd be curious to know what your thoughts are18:56
dstaneklbragstad: that makes two of us18:56
ayoung[{rabbit, [{loopback_users, [guest, keystone]}]}]18:56
lbragstaddstanek seems like it would be easy to bloat the notification18:56
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dstaneklbragstad: yeah, without reading that bug, i'd wonder why that is needed if we have the actual id18:57
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lbragstadDmitri has some justifications for it18:57
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samueldmq2 mins left18:57
lbragstadbut we also run into cases where usernames are mutable18:58
dstanekok, i'm going to call it in a min and we can take it to our channel18:58
* morgan spoofs ayoung on the bus.18:58
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ayoungmorgan, if only the Keystone user can write to the topic, no spoofs18:58
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"18:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar  8 18:59:06 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-03-08-18.01.html18:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-03-08-18.01.txt18:59
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dstanekget back to work!18:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-03-08-18.01.log.html18:59
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fungiinfra team, assemble!18:59
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clarkbsystems operational19:00
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jeblairbzzt *pop*19:00
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fungiwow, everyone with their name next to a topic seems to be here!19:01
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fungimordred: SergeyLukjanov: nibalizer: infra meeting starting19:02
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fungi#startmeeting infra19:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar  8 19:02:30 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:02
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:02
fungi#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting19:02
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fungi#topic Announcements19:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)"19:02
fungi#info It's my extreme pleasure to welcom Paul Belanger (pabelanger) to the infra19:02
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fungi-core team and as an infra-root sysadmin.19:02
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openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Info object at 0xa998ed0>19:03
fungidarned stray newlines19:03
AJaegerwelcome, pabelanger !19:03
yolandacongrats pabelanger!19:03
fungiand typos19:03
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pleia2much deserved, pabelanger :)19:03
jeblairpabelanger: YAY!19:03
fungi#info It's my extreme pleasure to welcome Paul Belanger (pabelanger) to the infra-core team and as an infra-root sysadmin.19:03
fungithat's what i wanted19:03
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pabelangerThanks! I'm honored to join the team :)19:03
jheskethyay, congrats pabelanger :-)19:03
fungipabelanger has been with us for years, pioneering some of our first efforts at puppet testing and style normalization19:03
asselinpabelanger, congrats!19:04
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fungihelped design and maintain our pbx.openstack.org asterisk service19:04
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fungihas pitched in all over the place really19:04
fungiso just wanted to say thanks! and hopefully the additional responsibility doesn't beat you down too quickly ;)19:04
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pabelangerHappy to help where I can19:05
pabelangerand thanks again19:05
fungipabelanger: when you get a moment, submit a change to system-config to realize your account on all servers, and we'll try to get a majority of the current infra-root admins to +2 it19:05
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pabelangerfungi: ack19:05
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pleia2speaking of pabelanger, one of the two infra talks submitted to the summit was accepted: https://www.openstack.org/summit/austin-2016/summit-schedule/events/733719:06
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pleia2"OpenStack Infrastruture for Beginners19:06
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fungiyes, we'll need to make sure we crack open our design summit session brainstorming soon too, probably next week19:06
pleia2so thanks to him for leading the way on the talk submissions19:06
fungion that note i've confirmed with ttx and thingee that we'll stick with requesting what we had in tokyo, as far as room allocations19:07
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fungiokay, on with the show19:07
fungi#topic Actions from last meeting19:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:07
fungi#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-03-01-19.15.html19:07
fungi"1. (none)"19:07
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fungiwe really don't seem to use #action much any more, likely my fault19:07
fungi#topic Specs approval19:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)"19:07
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/287577 Create elections.openstack.org19:08
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fungitonyb: jhesketh: you wanted to talk about this a little?19:08
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fungiis this hoping to get set up in time for elections in a week-ish, or is this for newton?19:08
jheskethit'd be great to have it for elections this week19:08
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fungiit looks like it has a couple positive roll-call votes already19:09
tonybThe oroginal idea was to use it for this election cycle but I understand if we just trial it this time19:09
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tonyband use it as the primary source of tinformation in the ocata election19:09
anteayanominations open friday, right?19:09
tonybanteaya: right19:09
anteayawhat timeline do you want to see for the work on this spec?19:09
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anteayaI think we agree by friday would be tough to do19:10
tonybanteaya: sure.  It'd be great to have it done for say the opening of the TC nominations19:10
jheskethto begin with it's just publishing the output of the candidate list, so it's useful but I don't think (and tonyb will correct me if I'm wrong) it'll matter if it appears half way through the election too19:10
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tonybwith is about 2 weeks from now19:10
fungii'm still leaning more toward having this appear somewhere on governance.o.o, but i think that's an implementation detail. it's not hard to graft in a separate publication tree at a specific url in the vhost config (and saves us adding another subdomain in dns, another ssl cert, et cetera), plus seems more like the logical place for it19:10
jheskethbut yes, it'd be best to have it before opening19:10
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anteayaI'm all for doing great things for elections including communicaiton19:11
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tonybfungi: I'm coo with that but thought it'd be harder than the proposal, happy to be wrong19:11
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fungielections are a big part of our governance19:11
anteayaI'm hesitant to do somethign quick or fast as the amount of confusion around elections is high19:11
anteayado speak up if you disagree with me19:11
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jheskethanteaya: would this help with any of the confusion?19:12
fungiand the governance site is not called technical-committee.openstack.org but i guess ttx and the tc may object if we put non-tc-controlled content there19:12
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anteayajhesketh: I'm concerned it would create some rather than alliviating19:12
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fungianyway, feels like i'm bikeshedding now so i'll stop19:12
jheskethanteaya: how so?19:12
anteayaI'd be for implimenting this for the fall elections19:12
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anteayalast minute stuff of any kind really throws people19:13
anteayaI'm fine if I'm the minority19:13
tonybanteaya: I hear you point.19:13
bkeroWould it count as last minute if it were announced today?19:13
bkero(but not necessarily live today)19:13
anteayabkero: it would for me19:13
anteayaand announcing something that isnt' up would create confusion19:13
jeblairmaybe we should invite the tc to bikeshed on the proposal and hosting location?19:13
tonybanteaya: it may be I'm under estimating the level of confusion it'd cause19:14
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fungican't hurt to bring it up during open discussion in the meeting an hour from now, if there's time19:14
anteayatonyb: I may be overestimating19:14
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fungijust to let them know the spec has been proposed19:14
anteayabut my position would be this would be great to have in place for next fall19:14
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tonybanteaya: If it's more appropriate I can talk to you about this after the meeting19:15
anteayaif you like19:15
anteayabut you asked for the infra opinion19:16
anteayaand as a member of infra, I'm offering my opinion19:16
tonybanteaya: not trying to shut anything down etc just don't want to over stay my welcome19:16
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fungiso anyway, tonyb: jhesketh: timeline aside, you feel like this is ready to go up for final council vote with a spec approval in a couple days? and see if a tc member wants to -1 it calling for further discussion/deferral?19:16
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fungior give it another week to collect some more opinions/input?19:16
jheskethfungi: the scope of the spec is small enough (imo) that it could be voted on.. resolving the location and the timing is possibly something that can be done in the spec19:17
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jheskethsounds like it might be best to get concensus on that before it's approved19:17
jheskethtonyb: what do you think?19:17
tonybI'm fine with a week from now.19:18
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jeblairmy understanding is this should have minimal impact to the elections process, so i also don't mind if it shows up now, partway through, or after this cycle19:18
tonybjeblair: correct.19:18
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jeblairbut i take anteaya's point, and would suggest that perhaps a soft-launch might be the thing if we do decide to launch it earlier...19:19
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jeblairzaro: that's like in an out of the meeting in one line19:20
fungiokay, so let's push to next week, and give the tc members a heads up19:20
zarooops. had to leave for just a min.19:20
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jeblairi'm happy to volunteer to bring it to the tc's attention19:21
fungithanks jeblair!19:21
fungiuseful to have a tc member participate in our meetings ;)19:21
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AJaegerfungi, time for #action ?19:21
fungioh, sure19:21
hasharo/  good morning19:21
fungi#action jeblair Give the TC a heads up on "Create elections.openstack.org" spec19:22
fungi#topic Priority Efforts: Store Build Logs in Swift19:22
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts: Store Build Logs in Swift (Meeting topic: infra)"19:22
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/269928/1/specs/logs-in-afs.rst AFS strategy19:22
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jheskethso probably not much to discuss during the meeting... just want to get some feedback on comments I put in that review19:23
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jeblairoh, i should respond to that!19:23
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jhesketh(there is also https://review.openstack.org/#/c/254718/ which updates the swift strategy in case we wanted to return to that)19:23
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/254718 swift strategy update19:24
jeblairand then at some point we're going to have to make a decision.  :)19:25
jheskethyes, that would be helpful19:25
jeblairso it'd be good for folks to read up on both of those and leave questions/thoughts/etc19:25
fungidefinitely. anything else on this?19:26
jheskethnot from me, thanks :-)19:26
jeblairi think they're both valid options, so it's a tricky call.19:26
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fungi#topic Gerrit tuning (zaro)19:26
*** openstack changes topic to "Gerrit tuning (zaro) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:26
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clarkb++ to more info on how sharding would give us resiliency and more disk space19:27
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zarothere's a few things here, but probably start with most urgent.  the gerrit jvm gc issue?19:27
clarkbyes the gerrit jvm gc issue persists, I think the change to update the timeouts has helped (we no longer fall over consistently through the week only once the GC starts to get bad)19:27
zaroi haven't found a solution to this besides trying to throw more memory at Gerrit.  i think that's what we discussed last time as well.19:28
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fungiplan there is to have a plan for a gerrit server rebuild onto a larger flavor, with preemptive announcement about new ip address for companies who have bloched egress for their employees, yeah?19:28
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anteayaI think we were at the point of trying to understand how much memory19:28
clarkbI think what we need to do is determine how much space gerrit needs, boot a new VM of that size, tell people what the new IP will be then switch at some point after people have a chance to update firewalls19:28
anteayaso we could create a new vm and announce the ips19:28
clarkbanteaya: yup, we need to know how big the new VM needs to be19:28
anteayaso how big does the new vm need to be?19:29
fungilast time we did 1 month advance notice, right?19:29
anteayaasselin: was it one month?19:29
clarkbanteaya: I don't think anyone knows19:29
anteayaany guesses?19:29
fungi12 parsecs?19:30
zarocurrently there's 12 Gigs allocated. so i think last i suggested was up it to 20G+?19:30
clarkbcurrently we are in a 30GB VM with 12GB allocated to the jvm19:30
bkeroAny thoughts to overallocating for future-proofing?19:30
clarkbif we go to a 60GB VM we can probably bump the JVM up to at least 30GB19:30
zarothat sounds good.19:30
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jeblairand we actually use 20G of ram19:31
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jeblairincluding apache, etc...19:31
jheskethI'm guessing it's not possible to resize the vm or reattach the existing ip to a new one?19:32
fungithe other 10gb is mostly for cache/buffers so we don't have terrible i/o performance19:32
clarkbjhesketh: correct19:32
clarkbjhesketh: resize is not allowed and rax doesn't do floating IPs19:32
fungiclarkb: or at least not on the flavor we're currently using19:32
anteayafungi: it was one month advance notice: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-February/056508.html19:32
clarkbright, some flavors are resizeable19:32
fungi(maybe due to pvhvm, as jeblair theorized)19:32
jeblairwhen does xenial come out?19:33
bkeroUsually near the end19:33
clarkbright around summit time19:33
clarkbI think thursday before summit19:33
pleia2week before summit19:33
fungiapril 21 looks like?19:33
pleia2clarkb: yep19:33
pleia2fungi: yeah19:33
jeblairmaybe we can apt-get dist-upgrade to xenial before we do the switch...19:33
fungi#link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseSchedule Ubuntu Xenial Release Schedule19:33
jeblairsince we'll need to launch the machine soon to reserve the ip19:33
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pabelangerjeblair: do you know if anybody has tried our puppet manifests on Xenial yet?19:34
fungiit would certainly be nice to not have two ip moves for ram increase and distro upgrade19:34
clarkbpabelanger: I doubt it and they likely don't work around systemd19:34
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pabelangerlooks like xenial is still on puppet 3.7.219:34
jeblairif we decided to do that, we'd have 6-8 weeks to fix it...19:34
clarkbbut maybe they do, not sure how well the sysv init compat layer works for compatbility with upstarts sysv compat layer19:34
pabelangersorry 3.8.419:35
fungipabelanger: well, we use puppetlabs' packages anyway19:35
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pabelangerfungi: right, was curious if they made the jump to puppet 4 like fedora did. Either way, fun times head with systemd19:36
yolandawhat will be the policy for upgrading to xenial, in terms of our components, and of nodes for jobs?19:36
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zarowhy are we talking about distro upgrade?  that seems like more work.19:36
fungii don't know that we're going to have a policy. we'll be lucky to have more than a loose plan19:36
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persia+1 on upgrades being more work19:36
clarkbzaro: because the next lts happens in about a month too19:36
clarkbzaro: and we will want ot upgrade to xenial at some point19:36
hasharthat topic made me come. Might be out of topic but have you considered migrating to Debian Jessie ?  (just yes/no  no need to fork the discussion)19:37
clarkbzaro: if we combine them we can avoid two ip changes in a short span of time19:37
rcarrillocruzto avoid double migration i guess19:37
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clarkbzaro: but you are right it makes things more complicated19:37
rcarrillocruzwe had same situation in gozer on gerrit upgrade19:37
rcarrillocruzto upgrade OS + gerrit or just gerrit19:37
fungihashar: that's a definite rathole discussion. we can bring it up during open discussion if we have one this time19:37
rcarrillocruzimho, i think os upgrade is a bit tight in terms of schedule19:37
jeblairit's 2x the work if we do them together.  it's 4x the work if we do them separately.19:37
zarowell, i remember it took a lot of testing going from precise to trusty19:38
hasharfungi: yeah I guess it is better for out of meeting talks. Thank!19:38
fungiso i suppose it's important to decide if we're going to want to urgently start upgrading systems to xenial (noting that trusty's going to be supported for a long time still and we're even now struggling to finish migrating off precise for many of our servers)19:39
jeblairyes, if we want it to just live on trusty for a few more years, that's fine19:39
pabelangerdidn't pleia2 recommend waiting for a bit?19:39
anteayashe did19:39
fungii'm personally fine if rebuilding review.openstack.org on xenial is a 2017 timeline19:39
anteayafungi: I support that19:40
jeblairor 2018, more likely19:40
clarkband maybe start with precise to xenial jump19:40
pleia2it's mostly about when we want to tackle the systemd changes19:40
jeblairclarkb: ++19:40
fungiwell, review.o.o is on trusty now19:40
fungibut sure19:40
pleia2which is the main thin I'm concerned about WRT our puppet configs19:40
fungifor other systems19:40
anteayaso did we like the idea of a 60GB vm?19:40
jeblairfungi: that's how i took that suggestion19:40
anteayathat was the last/bigggest suggestion I was tracking19:40
fungiyeah, 60gb seemed to have some consensus19:41
clarkbanteaya: it sounded like zaro felt that 30GB jvm would be sufficient?19:41
clarkbzaro: ^ if so the nyes I think 60GB VM will work and we should launch that size19:41
fungi60gb instance i mean (for 30gb jvm)19:41
anteayaclarkb: and 60GB vm would give us 30GB for the jvm?19:41
jheskethis this something that we should consider baremetal for?19:41
clarkbanteaya: based on rough napkin math yes at least 30GB for jvm19:41
zaroi think that should work.19:41
anteaya+1 60GB vm19:41
jheskethand/or given the pain of having to do it more than once, just going for the biggest machine possible?19:42
fungii'm concerned about additional complexity with baremetal conflating this upgrade for similar reasons that i'm concerned about upgrading to xenial as part of the rebuild19:42
hasharwikimedia Gerrit is on baremetal with 24GB used out of 32GB19:42
clarkbfungi: yes, the images are different for example19:42
clarkband we can't easily provide our own if necessary, etc19:42
anteayahashar: gerrit 2.11?19:42
pleia2fungi: yeah, I was being more cautious about infra-cloud19:42
jheskethfungi: okay that makes sense19:42
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hashar14GB being buffers/cache.   Wikimedia probably has a similar traffic as your19:42
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hasharanteaya: still 2.8 :(19:42
clarkband maybe we should look into what is required for resizing19:43
* zaro likes jhesketh idea, go big!19:43
clarkbso that if we do need to resize it is an option19:43
jeblaira 60g vm would probably give us room for 40g or more for java19:43
anteayahashar: yeah 2.8 has less of a gc issue than 2.1119:43
jeblairwe started using a lot more ram in january19:43
fungiokay, so sounds like we're agreed on the instance size, and nobody's heavily advocating for a non-vm or for lumping in a distro upgrade19:43
hasharanteaya: I guess that is why WMF waits for you to upgrade Gerrit before we even consider doing it ;-}19:43
anteayahashar: I don't blame you19:44
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fungido we have an infra-root volunteer to spin up the replacement instance? and a volunteer (can be non-root, or the same person) to write up the announcement about the ip address change once that's done?19:44
jeblairdo we know why memory use increased in january?19:44
clarkbjeblair: we upgraded19:45
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clarkbjeblair: it actually started in december19:45
anteayaso if we announce this week, that puts us into the second or third week of april for the migration19:45
yolandafungi i can do it19:45
anteayashall we select a date?19:45
clarkbjeblair: yes we bumped the jvm from 8GB to 12 GB19:45
fungidecember the system sat mostly idle while everyone was sipping eggnog19:45
anteayaI'm away 1st week of april, here for the 2nd and 3rd weeks19:45
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jeblairclarkb: ah ok, thanks.19:45
clarkbbut the leaking and problems started in decemeber on 8GB19:45
fungijust weren't painful enough for us to bump the jvm up until people came back to work from holidays19:46
fungiyolanda: thanks!19:46
anteayaare folks around the 2nd and 3rd week of april?19:46
nibalizerfungi: re baremetal I agree we shouldn't baremetal lightly19:46
clarkbI will be around pre summit19:46
anteayaor are folks taking time off before teh summit?19:46
anteayaclarkb: thanks19:46
zaroi'm around except for week before summit and during19:46
yolandai should be19:46
anteayazaro: great19:46
fungi#agreed Gerrit for review.openstack.org will be moved to a new 60GB virtual machine instance19:46
nibalizerthough in my use of onMetal from rax its been straighforward and very much nova like19:46
anteayaso second week of april so zaro is around19:47
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anteayaI'm going to offer Thursday April 14th as a date?19:47
fungi#action yolanda Boot a replacement review.openstack.org and communicate the new IP address and maintenance window in an announcement E-mail19:47
nibalizerthats not great for me19:47
olaphthere is definitely a point of diminishing returns in terms of jvm memory size.  it can take some doing to find the sweet spot19:47
anteayanibalizer: what is better?19:47
anteayanibalizer: are you around that week?19:48
zaroi will be on vacation the week after though.19:48
nibalizerthe 7th?19:48
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anteayaI'm away19:48
clarkbwe don't all need ot be around if there are enough volunteers19:48
fungimy only travel plans are for the summit19:48
anteayaplus that just inside of 4 weeks19:48
anteayaokay if folks want the 7th19:48
pleia2fungi: same19:48
anteayaApril 7th19:48
fungiso i can be around whenever up until the saturday before the summit19:48
clarkblets do 14th19:48
pabelangereither date19:48
clarkbit gives us an extra week, people will be around, etc19:48
clarkbthe reason for the lead time is corp firewalls19:48
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zaro7th is better i think19:49
fungi14th is good for me. 20:00 utc? earlier? later?19:49
clarkbI am inclined to give them an extra week if we can otherwise they will complain and that whole idea is to avoid their complaining19:49
clarkbzaro: why is that?19:49
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zaroi will be on vacation week after 14th(week before summit)19:49
nibalizershould we just move the ip to a load balancer host?19:49
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clarkbnibalizer: I don't think so19:50
nibalizerthat way we can do gerrit moves and upgrades with less disruption19:50
funginibalizer: to avoid complaints?19:50
fungiit's our anti-complainment field19:50
clarkbbecause you still have to do this dance with the load balancer19:50
nibalizerright but haproxy doesn't have memory leaks19:50
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zaroi have no problem with 14th, just know that i won't be around week after.19:50
fungior bugs of any kind!19:50
clarkbnibalizer: no but haproxy has config updates and os upgrades like everything else19:50
nibalizerfungi: exactly19:50
persiaclarkb: Only once: next time will be easier19:51
bkeronibalizer: I think the right way is floating IP19:51
bkeroand maybe if we're switching instances we can use that?19:51
clarkbpersia: not once, we try to keep things relatively up to date19:51
nibalizerbkero: but we don't have that on rackspace19:51
clarkbbkero: floating IPs don't exist19:51
bkeroAh, I thought that was just for the instance type that it was on19:51
fungii can see potentially adding a floating ip and naming it something like ssh.review.openstack.org or something, but only having it for the use of people stuck behind firewalls who want us not to change addresses19:51
* persia has too much lag and goes back to lurking. The only once was about load balancer IP dancing.19:51
anteayanibalizer: is any date the second week of april better for you?19:52
anteayanibalizer: or is that whole week bad for you?19:52
fungiand even then, if we need to move it to a different region, or a different provider, or rackspace just needs to renumber their networks, we still have this issue19:52
nibalizeranteaya: i don't know what my plans are yet19:52
nibalizerbest not to count on me for anything19:52
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clarkbzaro: what about earlier in the week of the 14th?19:52
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clarkbzaro: say the 12th?19:52
fungii see making things hard on companies who have draconian egress filtering policies a feature, personally19:52
clarkbor 11th19:52
anteayawe could do the 11th19:53
yolandafungi what we did for gozer migration is just update dns entries. We had some automated scripts to move the data, then announce the outage, update the database, and update the dns entry to point to the new ip19:53
zaroyes, those all work.  just know that i'll be out week after.19:53
anteayathen we have all that week if we have issues19:53
anteayazaro: yup19:53
fungithe internet does not guarantee ip addresses will stay the same forever. that's why we have dns19:53
anteayais April 11th bad for anyone19:53
anteayathat knows their schedule19:53
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yolandahaving that in an automated way, supposed a small outage really19:54
fungii can also do monday april 1119:54
jeblairfungi: dns might catch on some day.19:54
anteayafungi: awesome19:54
rcarrillocruzyeah, we automated and iterated the script migration dozens of times really19:54
anteayawhat time of day do folks like?19:54
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anteayaI like when we start about 1600 or 1700 and have a 4 hour window19:54
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fungiyolanda: the outage for this is really pretty brief anyway. the impact is companies who need to petition their firewall admis through a bunch of red tape to change where they allow ssh traffic to go19:54
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anteayafungi: how long of an outage do we expect?19:55
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yolandaso we can have an ip reserved and announce that ip publicly with enough time19:55
fungiwe can look at how long it was for the trusty upgrade cut-over. my memory says we were down for just a few minutes19:55
anteayayolanda: yes19:55
jeblair(it's worth noting that users can use https to push changes, but third-party ci systems will still want to use ssh stream events)19:55
anteayafungi: awesome19:55
jeblairand indeed, we should note that in the ip announcement :)19:55
anteayaso a 30 minute window?19:55
jeblairyolanda: ^19:56
fungireally, our data is on a cinder volume and in a trove instance. the nova virtual machine instance for review.o.o is itself pretty stateless19:56
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yolanda30 minute - 1 hour range, to give more room ?19:56
jeblairit's cloud native enterprise java19:56
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anteayafungi had suggested 20:00 utc earlier19:57
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fungii don't mind announcing 1 hour. java is enterprise scale so our estimates should be too ;)19:57
anteayaApril 11th, 20:00 to 21:00 utc?19:57
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yolandajeblair, i have the numbers from gozer data migration, not from infra. Do you have timings from previous moves?19:57
fungianteaya: 20:00 is when our usual activity peak starts to wane which is the only reason we tend to gravitate toward then or later19:57
clarkbyolanda: rsync makes it fast19:57
hasharalways plan a schedule window larger than anticpiated19:57
rcarrillocruzhashar: ++19:57
anteayafungi: yup, makes sense if we expect a short outage19:57
yolandahashar is wise19:58
hasharworse thing that can happen:  maintenance is completed in advance and people praise how good you are doing maintenance19:58
pleia2hashar: hehe19:58
clarkbkeep the delta small ahead of time then rsync copies the difference with services off19:58
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clarkbthen update dns19:58
hasharso if you plan 30 minutes, make it 2 hours. So if you screw up something and take 1 hour to recover.  You are still done 30 minutes before deadline19:58
AJaegerfungi, two more mins19:58
fungipabelanger: AJaeger: well, we got to one topic we had held over from last week, but not to either of yours (ubuntu-trusty and constraints job migrations). want to keep them on the agenda for next week?19:58
anteayafungi: did you want to compose an agreed?19:58
hasharthen boss / end users / managers / product folks etc are all happy because you completed it soooo fast19:58
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pabelangerfungi: next week is fine for me19:59
AJaegerfungi, leave it on - let's see how we move forward with constraints...19:59
fungiagreed Gerrit RAM upgrade maintenance scheduled for Monday, April 11, 200:00-21:00 UTC19:59
fungilook good?19:59
fungi#agreed Gerrit RAM upgrade maintenance scheduled for Monday, April 11, 20:00-21:00 UTC19:59
fungii picked a day with fewer hours20:00
fungithose 200-hour days really get to me20:00
fungithanks everyone!20:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar  8 20:00:15 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-03-08-19.02.html20:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-03-08-19.02.txt20:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-03-08-19.02.log.html20:00
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jheskeththanks all!20:00
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ttxmestery, lifeless, mordred, dtroyer, jeblair, jaypipes, sdague, dhellmann: around ?20:01
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ttx#startmeeting tc20:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar  8 20:01:31 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"20:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'20:01
ttxHi everyone!20:01
ttxOur agenda for today:20:01
* edleafe hides in the back of the room20:01
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* rockyg is lurking but distracted20:01
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee20:01
ttxis Piet around20:02
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ttxhe added some topics one week ago20:02
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ttxthingee: do you know what he was looking for ? Adding personas and GUI checklist/heuristic to OpenStack Cross-Project Specifications20:03
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thingeettx: he's not around, perhaps should start in cross-project.20:03
flaper87this is the first time I've seen ttx confused at the beginning of a TC meeting20:03
* flaper87 writes this date down on a diary20:03
ttxwell, usually the people submitting topics show up20:03
thingeettx: I heard his talk in the product workgroup midcycle20:03
ttxhmm, ok. Let's skip20:04
annegentlethingee: based on that was TC needed? Or cross project consensus?20:04
ttxThe second topic kinda requires to have both mordred and lifeless in the room20:04
ttxand none of them are20:04
jeblairthis is going really fast20:04
ttxlooks like it will be a quick one20:04
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ttxlet's go back to that one if tey show up20:05
ttx#topic Review of stale governance changes20:05
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* flaper87 opens a new tab and loads netflix^Wgerrit20:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Review of stale governance changes (Meeting topic: tc)"20:05
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ttxI'll skip the first one since that was for mordred too20:05
thingeeannegentle: this should be a cross-project discussion20:05
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ttx* Neutron stadium things20:05
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thingeeannegentle, ttx I'll reach out to piet20:05
ttxrussellb posted an update on those. These reviews are basically stuck until the start of the next cycle20:05
flaper87russellb: thanks for the update! That was useful :)20:05
ttxShould I abandon them and ask that people re-propose them once it's ready for consideration ?20:05
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ttxWe usually only keep things that are ready for TC member voting on the slate20:06
russellbttx: i guess so20:06
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flaper87ttx: +120:06
ttxok, I will20:06
ttx* Split out the amended stackforge resolution (https://review.openstack.org/269862)20:06
ttxjeblair: any plans there, or still waiting for more feedback on the initial patchset ?20:06
armaxrussellb: did I miss the upadte?20:06
ttxarmax: that was a summary for the TC, I tink it was sent to the -tc list in reaction to my agenda item20:06
russellbarmax: it was by email, just tried to summarize the status, and also indicated that it's on backburner in favor of mitaka release work20:06
flaper87armax: trying to find the email link20:06
russellbarmax: should have CC'd you sorry20:07
jeblair862 is not really a think we're voting on -- it's something we already voted on...20:07
armaxoh, gotcha, thanks20:07
sdagueI guess on the general topic of the stadium, is there anything useful that the rest of the TC outside of neutron can do to help move thing along? (either now or in next cycle)20:07
flaper87armax: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-tc/2016-March/001139.html20:07
ttxjeblair: right, just wondering if I should keep it on the slate20:07
russellbsdague: i've been thinking about that, i'm not sure20:07
armaxrussellb: no worries, I am good with abandoning thsose for now20:07
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* jeblair waits for neutron discussion to end20:07
armaxflaper87: thanks20:07
flaper87armax: np20:07
russellbit's mainly a question of whether there's any general criteria we could write down that could have helped guide this20:07
ttxjeblair: or if you wanted to discuss the various suggestions live20:07
armaxrussellb: we’ll get this resolved as soon as I can spare more mental cycles to the matter20:08
armaxrussellb: with your help, of course :)20:08
russellbarmax: sure, i agree that finalizing mitaka is more important, don't worry about it20:08
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flaper87ttx: jeblair right, I don't think we need formal vote on that one. Other than making sure the edits are good and annegentle  and others are heling with that already20:09
flaper87I thought I had reviewed that one, though. I must have forgotten to click "review"20:09
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jeblairttx: well, i thought i did what we talked about in the tc meeting, so if we want to change the approach, discussing it here would be good20:09
annegentlejeblair: I did wonder about "why isn't git history good enough"20:09
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annegentlebut maybe I missed something20:09
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jeblairannegentle: apparently we as the tc decided it wasn't :) -- i think we decided we'd rather publish resolutions once, as we originally voted on them20:10
annegentlejeblair: ah, voting. ok20:10
jeblairannegentle: so, contrary to reference documentation, resolutions should be considered immutable20:10
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ttxjeblair: yeah, the remaining question is how do we make sure the end result is not confusing to the reader, and this is why I suggested moving the original resolution to a subdirectory20:11
jeblairso i guess the "big" question is whether we should do the approach in that change, or whether we should do what ttx suggests ^20:11
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jeblairi don't object to that; if folks like it, i can re-propose with that change20:11
ttxthe doc build is no longer live, but I remember the published result was pretty confusing20:11
flaper87tbh, I don't think jeblair patch is confusing20:11
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jeblairthe original does link to the updated one, so hopefully you end up at the right place regardless20:12
ttxflaper87: that's because you haven't seen the governance.openstack.org result20:12
flaper87I'm happy with it. It keeps things in one dir and they are sorted by date anyway so, I'm good20:12
flaper87ttx: oh, mmh. you got me there20:12
jeblairrecheck coming up :)20:12
ttxrecheck recheck20:13
* flaper87 rechecks ttx's recheck20:13
ttxlet's move on to open discussion in the mean time ?20:13
ttxWe can discuss best form in open discussion anyway20:13
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jeblairyeah, folks just let me know which style you prefer :)20:14
ttxAs far as the topic goes, I think this one shouldn't be abandoned20:14
jeblairhappy to oblige, just don't want to do it too many times :)20:14
ttx#topic Open discussion20:14
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)"20:14
ttx* Election season coming up20:14
ttxElection officials kicked off the election season:20:14
ttx#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-March/088558.html20:14
ttxI can't believe it's been 6 months since the last elections. Those sure passed by fast20:14
ttxOn the TC side, 7 seats are renewed (jeblair, lifeless, flaper87, markmcclain, jaypipes, dtroyer and myself)20:14
ttxjeblair: you wanted to add something ?20:14
russellbcan't believe it?20:14
russellbfeels like elections never end20:15
flaper87russellb: lol20:15
jaypipesis anyone *not* running again?20:15
* jaypipes promises to build a wall between OpenStack and AWS and have Amazon pay for it.20:16
flaper87jaypipes: does that answer your question?20:16
jaypipesflaper87: heh, yep :)20:16
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jeblairi'd like to bring the tc's attention to this spec: https://review.openstack.org/28757720:16
jeblairit was brought up in the infra meeting today20:16
markmcclainjaypipes: are you going to insist that all design sessions start with a pledge to openstack?20:16
jeblairi think it's fairly simple and straightforward, and it's a good idea20:16
jaypipesmarkmcclain: but of course.20:16
flaper87jaypipes: will take a look. Thanks for the heads up!20:17
russellbjeblair: seems sane20:17
sdaguejeblair: will it make it in time for this go around?20:17
sdagueor is this longer term20:17
annegentleI think we shouldn't need another subdomain and governance should suffice20:17
jeblairbut i do think it would be good for the tc to ack it, as well as provide feedback on whether we should host it under governance.o.o20:17
jaypipesjeblair: ++20:17
jaypipeswill check into it.20:17
ttxjeblair: I'm good with it being under governance20:17
russellbunder governance sounds fine to me.20:17
ttxelections are a by-product of our charter anyway20:17
flaper87under governance ++20:17
sdagueI'm fine either way20:17
fungiyeah, governance site feels like the right place for election details, but i don't want us to put content there which isn't directly controlled by the tc without some consensus20:18
ttxand election officials run them under formal delegation from the TC20:18
sdaguetop level makes it a bit more visible20:18
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sdagueand there were concerns on turnout20:18
flaper87It's already confusing to have the many subdomains we have now. IF we can have it under governance, let's do that20:18
ttxfungi: if it's a subdir it sounds fine20:18
ttxthen it's clear where the delegation ends20:18
dhellmannwe would have to make sure we don't ever add that same subdir to the existing governance repo, or we'd compete with patches publishing to the location20:18
fungiit's trivial enough to graft a publication tree into a subtree of that site. just a line in the vhost config20:18
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jeblairsdague: i'm not sure we got a firm conclusion on whether we should push for it this cycle (time is short), but it doesn't affect the actual process too much, so we should be able to start using it mid-election even, but we don't want to confuse people.  we might compromise on a soft-launch this cycle.20:19
fungidhellmann: nah, it would just get shadowed by the election tree if you did it the way i mentioned, but implementation details anyway20:19
dhellmannfungi : sure, either way we have a potential for overlap. not a big deal, but something to be aware of20:19
sdaguejeblair: yeh, if it's not going to hit before the elections start, seems best to soft launch and not really talk about it until next time20:20
ttxjeblair, fungi: have enough to proceed ?20:20
annegentleagreed on soft launch20:20
tonybif we use g.o.o would there be links between the rc content and the election content?20:20
sdaguejust to prevent confusion20:20
dhellmanntonyb : we could add those20:20
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tonybthat's the part I thought would be hard ...20:20
dhellmanntonyb : either to the header, or inline where appropriate, or both. I can work with you on that.20:20
tonybdhellmann: okay thanks.20:20
fungihyperlinks are simple. html borrowed them from gopher anyway ;)20:20
annegentlefungi: ha20:21
ttx* Leadership training20:21
ttxgothicmindfood posted an update on that20:21
ttx#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-March/088646.html20:21
ttxLooks like the 'not two consecutive weeks' camp won against the 'not two US travels' camp20:21
ttxshe is looking into other dates20:22
flaper87plus, some of us were already booked before the announcement of the dates went out20:22
ttxcomments/remarks ?20:22
annegentleheh I was the only one who lives in Austin :)20:22
flaper87I think that's great20:22
dhellmanndo we have a set of goals for this trip?20:22
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gothicmindfoodoh hai. Most people seem pretty cool with June 28/29th20:22
ttxdhellmann: I think colette described the goals well20:22
gothicmindfoodso - just fyi to everyone - that's what I'm going to look into and confirm via ML in the next couple days20:23
jeblairsomething about sandwiches iirc20:23
dhellmannok, I'm probably behind on email, I'll look for that20:23
flaper87my only recommendation so far is to not do it in the west coast20:23
gothicmindfoodjeblair: definitely sandwiches20:23
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gothicmindfoodflaper87: it will be in Ann Arbor, Michigan20:23
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sdagueflaper87: it's in Ann Arbor20:23
flaper87it's way too far and expensive for a 2 days trip20:23
ttxI'm still skeptical of leadership training, but she managed to turn that into a reason why I should go20:23
gothicmindfoodunless someone strongly objects to delicious sandwiches.20:23
flaper87gothicmindfood: ++20:23
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jeblairttx: she must have taken the course already :)20:23
flaper87I think I didn't read the location on the email (or wherever it was announced) :D20:23
gothicmindfoodttx: my ninja-psychology is strong this month. :)20:23
ttxgothicmindfood: more like judo20:24
russellbflaper87: a leader would have read it20:24
flaper87I *have* to go then20:24
ttxalright, next up20:24
* flaper87 can't miss that training20:24
ttxmtreinish: you had something to mention ?20:24
mriedemso the leadership training is for TC members? what about those not on the TC?20:24
ttxflaper87: you need more leader foo20:24
mtreinishttx: yeah20:24
russellbmriedem: thanks for bringing that up.  gothicmindfood ^^^ i got that question as well20:25
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mtreinishttx: I wanted to bring up that in investigating the stable breakages on trove with mriedem we found that they don't really comply with the standard testing interface20:25
mriedemi don't mind being a drone, but20:25
ttxmriedem: yeah, I'm not sold on that too. I think we should grow the next generation of leaders rather than camping on the existing ones20:25
mtreinishand also workaround things like global requirements as it suits their needs20:25
mriedemmtreinish: way to bring me into this...20:25
annegentlettx: agree20:25
jeblairoh dear20:25
flaper87mtreinish: o.020:26
ttxmriedem, annegentle: but then it's the first editoin and it's more of a test balloon20:26
anteayamtreinish: thanks for bringing your discovery to the tc20:26
mtreinishand this has been an issue for quite some time20:26
flaper87mriedem: do you have links to that? I know there's a thread on the m-l20:26
flaper87erm, mtreinish ^20:26
mtreinishmriedem: heh, I couldn't not drag you in20:26
gothicmindfoodmriedem: it initially, just because of scope, is meant for the TC/members of the board. but if we have extra space, I will definitely let the ML know and ask if anyone else wants to sign up!20:26
carolbarrettttx: we need to do both.20:26
ttxhmm, let's focus on trove now please20:26
mtreinishflaper87: https://github.com/openstack/trove/blob/master/tox.ini#L12-L1620:26
russellboh dear20:27
flaper87gothicmindfood: just *active* members or are we going to include previous members too?20:27
ttxI'd suggest discussing the scope of leadership training on colette's ML thread20:27
amrithwhat about trove ;)20:27
gothicmindfoodmriedem: it's definitely meant as a first step towards 'doing leadership' for the whole community, so it's not meant to be exclusive, just meant to be a place to start20:27
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flaper87gothicmindfood: I mean, members up for election in 2 weeks20:27
russellbflaper87: active and previous i believe20:27
flaper87russellb: don't tell me it was on the email20:28
jeblairgothicmindfood did answer all of these questions in her excellent email :)20:28
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gothicmindfoodflaper87: because we're straddling elections with this discussion, and we ostensibly have room for TC+others, it's been basically a given that current TC + future elected TC who are available and interested would be invited20:28
russellbflaper87: it was.20:28
anteayamtreinish: that is concerning20:28
* flaper87 -> head -> desk20:28
flaper87mtreinish: thanks for bringing that up20:28
dhellmannamrith : trove is using a version of pymongo not listed in global requirements, can you fix that?20:28
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amrithdhellmann, I can certainly fix that20:28
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dhellmannamrith : there's a custom install line in the tox.ini20:29
cdentIs following global requirements a requirement?20:29
amrithI'm more concerned with some of the 'broad and sweeping' statements that I've heard today about trove.20:29
flaper87amrith: and, please, in the future let's not do that again.20:29
dhellmannmtreinish : was there anything else?20:29
ttxmtreinish: what other kinds of violations of the project testing interface did you find ?20:29
flaper87cdent: it is if you're part of the big tent20:29
dhellmanncdent : it is for projects that claim to sync requirements20:29
amrithso I'd like to be more precise.20:29
mtreinishbesides the fact that it's really a functional test job, a unit test job, and a sample updater in one tox job (which is just confusing) the functional tests don't conform to the standard testing interface20:29
amrithflaper87, do what?20:29
mriedemtrove's test-requirements also uses the troveclient tarball20:29
flaper87cdent: dhellmann was more precise than I was20:29
mtreinishthey don't run with testr or emit subunit (which iirc was part of that doc)20:29
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dhellmannmtreinish : have you raised this with the trove team already?20:30
flaper87amrith: sorry for being vague. I meant to say that it's not recommended adding pip install calls to tox.ini. It'd be great if you could bring this feedback to the trove team20:30
mriedemtesting with trunk clients (unreleased) on stable branch has bit us in the past20:30
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mriedemand is biting us right now actually20:30
mriedemwhich is why this was coming up20:30
mtreinishmriedem: yeah there's that too, which is just kinda weird20:30
sdaguefwiw - this is where that was landed - 4 months ago - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/241754/20:31
mtreinishdhellmann: not recently, I just found it today20:31
amrithmriedem, I understand some of what you are saying20:31
mtreinishdhellmann: but digging through history this has been a known thing for some time20:31
amrithbut you'll also recall that on 2/5 I asked of the community http://openstack.markmail.org/thread/tmy2dema4baoulif20:31
amrithin regards to the bug we've been discussing today20:31
mtreinishdhellmann: like https://review.openstack.org/#/c/54436/20:31
fungifor clarity, keeping your deliverable repos in sync with openstack/requirements is not strictly a qualifier for inclusion in the big tent, though it is important to, e.g., repos which need care from other cross-project teams who expect some degree of standardization20:31
amrithso, I'm happy to do whatever it takes to make progress but let's be more precise and avoid sweeping generalizations please.20:32
amrithdhellmann, I will push up a change to add pymongo to global requirements.20:32
anteayathe trove ptl is cp16net20:32
anteayais that person around?20:32
mriedemamrith: pymongo is in g-r20:32
ttxlooks like we need to come up with a clear set of things that should be changed20:32
amrithanteaya, cp16net has been off on vacation for some weeks20:32
mriedemit's just not blacklisting or capping whatever version breaks trove20:32
dhellmannanteaya : I think amrith is filling in temporarily20:32
mtreinishfungi: I think it's more problematic if you say you subscribe to and respect g-r and then you don't20:33
amrithso I'm trying to catch a large number of balls that are in the air.20:33
fungimtreinish: yep20:33
anteayaamrith: oh do you have an idea of when they will return?20:33
anteayadhellmann: thank you20:33
amrithanteaya, no I don't.20:33
flaper87amrith: thanks for filling in for cp16net and attending the meeting20:33
amrithto be clear, the issue that mriedem and I are discussing is not "broken backward compatibility" but rather tests in liberty that are broken in a way that just needs fixing. Tests, not code that customers would use.20:34
amriththere's an ML discussion about this20:34
amritha change has been proposed.20:34
mriedemamrith: that's not accurate20:34
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amrithok, mriedem20:34
amrithlet's discuss it20:34
mriedemthe tests are using troveclient as a user would,20:34
mriedemto create an instance20:34
jeblairwe only recently started adding anything to the pti about openstack/requirements, and that was in relation to constraints.  we may want to elaborate a bit more in that document.20:35
mriedemit uses a kwarg in the troveclient api that was removed in master troveclient20:35
mriedemwhich breaks stable20:35
fungifor the record, it looks like this was added 4 months ago as a workaround https://review.openstack.org/24175420:35
mriedemso yes, the tests are busted, but they are busted b/c a deprecated kwarg was removed from troveclient 2.1.020:35
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amrithmriedem, removing the argument in master is fine, I believe20:35
mriedemit's fine if you're not following backward compat20:35
anteayafungi: sdague had linked to that in backscroll20:35
fungithey seem to be pinning things in tox.ini instead of requirements lists (and getting them into global requirements)20:35
amrithmriedem, that's not helpful.20:35
fungiahh, i missed sdague's link. sorry!20:36
mriedemspecifically, a spec that lifeless has for backward compat20:36
clarkbmriedem: amrith you also need to use semver20:36
mriedemamrith: basically, the idea being clients and libs are backward compat until the oldest stable branch that uses them are still around20:36
sdaguetroveclient 2.1.0 was also a semver failure20:36
mriedemyes, that too20:36
sdaguebut semver wouldn't have helped here anyway20:36
mriedemconstraints would have, but trove unit tests don't use constraints on liberty20:36
amrithsdague, what is semver and is that part of the solution or just something tangential?20:37
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dimsamrith : https://review.openstack.org/#/c/226157/ - details here20:37
amrithmriedem, please put your comments in review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/290069/20:37
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fungiso on 241754 i'm curious why there was a delay in getting a pin updated in global requirements. it seems that was acknowledged as a challenge in the review comments20:37
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amrithand please, I am trying to get caught up on what is going on so being cryptic and terse is not going to help me do anything20:37
anteayayou have a whole channel of people trying to help you20:38
anteayaperhaps you can express some gratitude to them20:38
amrithanteaya, and I'm happy to take any and all help.20:38
dhellmannamrith : semver is "semantic versioning" and is a way of choosing version  numbers to signal the nature of the changes in the release. http://docs.openstack.org/developer/pbr/semver.html20:38
mriedemyeah i'm not trying to be terse, i've given a few options today and spend most of my day on unwinding this20:38
amrithI have a review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/290069/20:38
ttxamrith: semver = major.minor.patch versioning.20:38
amrithwhich I would appreciate comments in.20:38
ttxif you break backward compat you should increment major20:38
dhellmannamrith : that wouldn't really fix the problem, but you should become familiar with that anyway20:39
fungii'd certainly like to figure out what challenges projects are encountering getting global requirements updates approved and propagated in a timely fashion. that the workaround got left on the project for months thereafter is a bit secondary i think20:39
mriedemi don't really know what our goal here is for the tc meeting20:39
dimsagree fungi20:39
amrithanteaya, I would love for some feedback on my ML request (for help) http://openstack.markmail.org/thread/tmy2dema4baoulif20:39
russellbi was wonder that myself, mriedem20:39
flaper87mriedem: I was about to say that20:39
ttxOK, so it looks like there are a number of things that should definitely be changed, in Trove's code and practices. Is there reason to believe any of those changes are impossible ?20:40
mriedempersonally, as of this morning, i wanted to either cap troveclient in liberty or revert the backward incompat change https://review.openstack.org/#/c/290048/20:40
russellbsounds like issues have been raised, amrith and trove team need some time to respond and address20:40
amriththanks, I just saw a mention of "trove" so my ears perked up.20:40
flaper87I see amrith is trying to catch up with the issue and working on a way to fix it20:40
flaper87so, I'd say let's give him and the trove team enough time to work on the fix20:40
amrithflaper87, thank you20:40
mriedemwell, there are fixes posted,20:40
mriedemit's a question of what's appropriate for end users20:40
mriedembut that can happen in gerrit20:40
flaper87I'm sure we can follow up on the mailing list and trove's channel if they need more support20:40
dhellmannit would be useful to have a list, maybe mtreinish and mriedem can put together an etherpad or something to help amrithwith tracking20:41
amrithdhellmann, ++20:41
ttxmriedem: now if there is resistance in fixing the issues, I think we should definitely intervene20:41
mriedemit's in the ML20:41
flaper87amrith: no, thank you for bearing with us20:41
dhellmannmriedem : ok, that works, too20:41
russellbttx: ++20:41
mriedem#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-March/088689.html20:41
amrithand while we're on the subject, dhellmann ttx we need to also discuss another python-toveclient for the FFE20:41
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dhellmannamrith : we can take that out of this meeting20:41
amrithwe could, maybe, roll all of these into one resolution.20:41
mtreinishmriedem: well parts are in the ML. Some of the issues I was raising weren't20:41
amrithdims, thanks for the link.20:41
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amrithdhellmann, for now, one request20:42
amrithwhat do you want re: pymongo?20:42
amrithI see https://github.com/openstack/trove/blob/master/tox.ini#L12-L1620:42
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dhellmannamrith : use the version listed in the global requirements repo20:42
mriedemwe can sort this out in -dev20:42
dhellmannamrith : and declare that you're using that version in the standard requirement list files20:42
mriedemi don't want to derail the tc meeting20:42
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dhellmannmtreinish : if you could follow up to the list with the rest of the issues, that would help20:43
anteayamriedem: according to the agenda, the agenda had been addressed prior to this item20:43
amrithok, thx dhellmann20:43
mtreinishdhellmann: well I don't like that because it requires me to do something :) But, sure I can follow up on the ml20:43
mriedemmtreinish: you dealt it20:43
ttxyep, let's bring discussion of the issues to -dev and -release. The Tc is now aware of the issues and will follow up on the resolution20:43
ttx#action ttx to put trove issues and status update on the agenda for next meeting20:44
dhellmannmtreinish : yeah, if you show up here asking for action, be prepared with documentation :-)20:44
sdaguethere is kind of a meta issue right, if a project core team isn't up on what it means to work on things in an openstack way, and it has to be caught outside and unwound outside of that team, we've got a bigger issue20:44
sdagueespecially because there is a very finite amount of global catchers time20:45
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anteayasdague: ++20:45
dhellmannsdague : Yes, clearly the trove liaisons need to become more active in their respective roles.20:45
russellbdepends if the issue is with trove, or that it's hard to keep up with and understand "openstack ways"20:45
mriedemglobal catchers are like, leaders right? :)20:45
flaper87sdague: I'd rather assume good faith20:45
ttxalso wondering about the PTl situation there20:45
sdagueflaper87: I'm not assuming bad faith20:45
anteayamriedem: ha ha ha20:45
edleafemriedem: heh20:46
flaper87sdague: sorry, misread you then!20:46
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sdagueI'm saying it's a problem that there ever was a disconnect here20:46
sdaguethat 2 core reviewers every thought the pymongo pin was a thing20:46
flaper87sdague: that I agree with20:46
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ttxif a PTL can go off the map without anyone knowing when he will likely be back, around release time...20:46
ttxthat's a bit of a concern20:47
sdaguesure. We just have to be very careful about deciding that it is mriedem and mtreinish's job to build a detailed fix plan for projects because they found issues20:47
russellbcould be a very good reason ... emergencies happen20:47
dhellmannsdague : I'm asking for a list of issues, not fixes20:47
sdaguebecause if that's the case, then people will stop raising issues that they find20:47
mriedemsdague: yeah...20:47
sdaguebecause they don't want to have to own fixing it20:47
anteayasdague: good point20:47
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dhellmannotoh, you can't just show up here in a TC meeting complaining about a project and not expect anyone to ask for details20:47
amrithttx, I understand that he let TC know.20:47
russellbttx: sounds worth following up on20:48
amriththe reasons he's not here are likely not worth airing on IRC20:48
anteayaamrith: do you know when or how?20:48
amrithbut I assumed y'all knoew abotu it.20:48
fungiwell, in the change which introduced it, the first patchset added it to the requirements list, but a (non-core) reviewer suggested putting it in tox.ini instead, rather than pointing out that there should be a change proposed to openstack/requirements20:48
amrithwhen/how what?20:48
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mtreinishdhellmann: did I not provide details?20:48
anteayawhen the trove ptl communicated wtih the tc20:48
ttxsdague: right, a lot is about education. The Project team guide helps, the Upstream dev track should help too20:48
mriedemfwiw, cp16net has been one of the only people helping with stable branch issues on trove,20:48
mriedemso i've appreciated his work there20:48
amrithanteaya, I don't know20:48
mriedemi didn't realize ht was out20:48
dhellmannmtreinish : I was responding to sdague, I think you're fine but a summary would be useful20:48
amrithmaybe a couple of weeks ago20:48
ttxbut there will always be siloed teams doing their own thing thinking it's great20:49
amrithmriedem, I thought I was helping today20:49
mriedemalso, if you're not part of gate-tempest-dsvm-full, these things happen in satellite projects20:49
amrithwith stable?20:49
fungioh, wait, worse, the suggestion to just put it in the tox.ini did indeed come from a trove-core reviewer20:49
mriedemamrith: yes, you are after i started the fire alarm :)20:49
anteayamriedem: good to know he has been helpful to the stable team20:49
ttxamrith: I don't know anything about it... but maybe others do20:50
anteayafungi: the owner of 241754 is the trove ptl20:50
fungianteaya: yep20:50
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fungii'm still hunting for the corresponding global requirements change20:51
dhellmannttx: I knew cp16net would be out, and amrith was filling in for their release, but I don't think I know the dates (if I do, I don't remember them)20:51
flaper87I'll try this again. I think the trove issue is going to be handled and we can follow up on that next week. If we want to discuss the "why" this happened, lets try to gather some more data and come with a better analysis and try to find a solution rather than wasting our time trying to find who we should blame20:51
anteayaflaper87: I don't think we are looking for blame20:51
fungii'm more interested in finding out what we should blame20:51
dhellmannyeah, I'm not sure doing this live in this meeting is the best way to handle it20:51
anteayaif anything we haven't clearly communicated as a team, so that's on us20:51
flaper87anteaya: well, unless I'm reading all the messages wrong, that's my impression20:52
anteayawe are trying to understand what happened and when20:52
ttxI think the topic is closed for this week and we'll follow up on progress on fixes next week20:52
anteayaflaper87: that's fine if that is your impression but that is not my motivation20:52
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ttxwas there anythig else that people wanted to raise for open discussion ?20:52
amrithflaper87, thank you.20:52
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ttxstill no piet, no mordred and no lifeless, so the skipped topics will stay skipped20:53
* dhellmann notes the time20:53
ttx#topic UX: Adding personas and GUI checklist/heuristic to OpenStack Cross-Project Specifications (piet)20:53
*** openstack changes topic to "UX: Adding personas and GUI checklist/heuristic to OpenStack Cross-Project Specifications (piet) (Meeting topic: tc)"20:53
ttxpiet: what did you want to propose there ?20:54
ttxin 5 minutes ?20:54
pietI wanted to throw out that we are working on a personas doc for the community20:54
pietStill some discussion on how it relates to the x-project doc for roles20:55
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pietAnd where the docs should live20:55
pietThoughts/suggestions are welcome20:55
ttxyou mentioned cross-project specs, too ?20:55
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ttxmaybe post links to those on the ML, and we could find a home for them ?20:56
pietSure, but felt like I was getting ahead of myself.  It might be, but would like to defer to the TC20:56
anteayawho is the target audience for consuming the personas doc?20:56
dhellmannpiet: docs.openstack.org/developer/$reponame ?20:56
pietanteaya Product WG, Foundation and the individual projects20:56
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anteayathank you20:56
pietWant to pick-up next week?20:57
russellbsome kind of written proposal would be helpful20:57
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ttxpiet: I would rather start with a ML thread, then engage with the cross-project specs group (led by thingee)20:57
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ttxnot sure if the TC would have to get involved (I prefer we stay out of the way whenever possible)20:57
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pietYeah, but need to let ya'll know what coming down the road20:58
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ttxIt's good! Looking forward to your talk btw20:58
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pietWe're also working on a spec on trying to drive consistency in anything with a GUI20:58
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ttxpiet: that would be a classic cross-project spec ?20:59
thingeepiet: engaging with the TC is getting a bit ahead. a lot of stuff like this starts with cross-project consensus so the TC can have better feedback20:59
thingeebetter feedback/informed20:59
pietthingee I'll reach-out to you later to discuss20:59
ttxalright, anything else, anyone ?21:00
ttxwe are out of time anyway21:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar  8 21:00:23 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-03-08-20.01.html21:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-03-08-20.01.txt21:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-03-08-20.01.log.html21:00
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