Thursday, 2016-03-31

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thinrichsramineni_, ekcs, masahito, tsandall: courtesy ping00:00
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thinrichs#startmeeting CongressTeamMeeting00:01
openstackMeeting started Thu Mar 31 00:01:00 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is thinrichs. Information about MeetBot at
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.00:01
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'congressteammeeting'00:01
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thinrichsHi all00:01
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thinrichsAgenda is simple: Austin summit and Mitaka release00:02
thinrichsAnything else?00:02
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thinrichs#topic Austin summit00:03
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thinrichsThere's a tentative agenda for our working sessions in Austin…00:03
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thinrichsWe have 4 sessions: 11:00a - 3:20 on Wednesday00:04
thinrichsThe first is a fishbowl session, where we'll be discussing integrations with other teams.00:04
thinrichsThe next 3 are working sessions, where we can discuss whatever we need, mainly within our own team.00:05
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thinrichsWe'll need to decide what we want to discuss in those 3 sessions.00:06
thinrichsAny suggestions?00:06
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thinrichsHere are some thoughts…00:07
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thinrichs(i) distributed architecture, (ii) HA architecture built on top of distributed arch00:08
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thinrichsWe could also have a session where we do some more long-range planning00:08
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ekcssounds good.00:09
thinrichsA bug-squashing session.00:09
thinrichsWe should all think about what would be most beneficial to discuss over the next couple weeks.00:10
thinrichsIdeal topics are those where we've all had some time to work/think about them before the summit, so the middle of a conversation, not the beginning.00:10
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thinrichsSo let's all take an action item to give that some thought over the next couple of weeks.00:11
thinrichsOne other thing that is related to the fishbowl session.00:11
thinrichsI've been helping a group of people who want a policy-enabled Nova scheduler.00:11
thinrichsWe put together a spec and plan to discuss that spec as part of the fishbowl session.00:12
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thinrichsThe idea right now is to have the scheduler use Congress's datalog engine, which we'd need to pull out into a library.00:12
thinrichsAdmins write policies that describe which hosts a new VM request is permitted to be scheduled on.00:13
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thinrichsThe policies would be written either in Datalog or a simple fragment of Datalog codified in YAML.00:14
thinrichsThis effort is related to the delegation functionality we've worked on a bit in the past.00:15
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thinrichsThere are still details to work out about where the policy lives, how it gets updated, and so on.00:16
thinrichsAny questions or comments?00:16
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ekcssounds great.00:17
masahitosounds nice.00:17
ekcsI’ve been wanting to make a YAML embedding of Congress datalog. and letting congress accept policy in YAML.00:18
ekcsMaybe I’ll be able to borrow/help from this effort.00:18
thinrichsekcs: In that spec we only have  a *fragment* of Datalog encodable in YAML.  I tried a full encoding, but no one liked it b/c it was still datalog.00:18
thinrichsekcs: It'd be great to have help.00:18
ekcshaha i see.00:20
thinrichsThe spec asks for feedback for a couple of things, so I'm planning to hold off on doing any implementation until we understand what the Nova community thinks and what the parameters are.00:20
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thinrichsI'm excited at the prospects, but I'm also waiting to see what the Nova scheduling team thinks.00:22
thinrichsAnything else for Austin?00:22
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thinrichs#topic Mitaka00:23
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thinrichsA few important dates (from the release team):00:23
thinrichs1. Tomorrow is the final day for a release candidate00:24
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thinrichs2. Friday (2 days from now) is the last day to request a full release00:24
thinrichs3. Early next Thursday, final release happens00:25
thinrichsWhat this means is that we need to merge any outstanding fixes by tomorrow.00:25
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thinrichsAny fixes after that will only be allowed in if they are Critical.  Release team has final say.00:25
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ekcsGot it.00:26
thinrichsFor us, we have 1 decision to make about the release00:26
ekcsI'd like to figure out what to do with the keystone authentication issue. I think it's important to get some fix in for Mitaka.00:26
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thinrichsekcs, ramineni: does one of you want to lay out the decision we need to make?00:27
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ramineni_thinrichs: i thought we could go for sessions only for problematic clients and deal with others later in N release00:28
thinrichsramineni_: That sounds good to me.00:28
ramineni_thinrichs: but just going through ekcs comments on the patch00:28
ramineni_thinrichs: i think there shouldn't be any problems in using sessions if client supports it ..00:29
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ekcsFor some of the datasource drivers, a workaround is needed where Congress manually refreshes the auth token after it expires. But the workaround is broken for some drivers (depends on the corresponding client)00:30
thinrichsRight now we think the datasources we need to fix are Glance, Heat, Murano.  Correct?00:30
ramineni_thinrichs: glance heat , im able to reproduce in my env .. murano havent checked yet00:31
ekcsI have fixes that instantiate a new client each time the token expires.
ekcsramineni_ has a fix that uses a new a better model (keystone session) for authentication.
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ekcswe mostly agree that in the future the session model should be used. question is what to do for mitaka.00:31
ekcsthinrichs: yes those three.00:31
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ramineni_ekcs: mitaka also, how about using sessions only? there shouldnt be any problems right , as we are usig their functionality directly00:33
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thinrichsekcs did a good thing in preparing both versions so we can make the decision and merge today, if we need to.00:34
thinrichsSo we just need to make a decision.00:34
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thinrichsI think we agree that the keystone sessions are the right long-term play.00:34
thinrichsWhat's the possible downside to using sessions in Mitaka?00:34
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thinrichsBugs in other peoples' code that we don't know about b/c we haven't tested thoroughly.00:35
thinrichsAnything else?00:35
ekcsOne issue with sessions, I couldn’t get it to work for murano. But if we can fix that right away then that’s an option for mitaka.
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thinrichsAre we thinking that for Glance/Heat, we should definitely go with sessions then?00:36
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ekcsthinrichs: that and the potential that we’re not quite using it correctly. I haven’t been able to find detailed docs for the clients, so I’m just doing trial and error at this point swithing to sessions. With the client instantiation workaround, it’s all the same code we’ve been using so less risk of introducing a problem because we’re not using the client the way they expect.00:37
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ekcsthinrichs: I’m in favor of all one or the other. should make future mitaka support easier.00:38
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thinrichsI'm thinking that since the Glance/Heat seems to be working with sessions, we should merge it.00:40
ekcsthinrichs: I see.00:41
thinrichsIf we can get the Murano one working by tomorrow morning in the US, we merge it too.00:41
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thinrichsOtherwise, we use the other Murano fix.00:41
thinrichsekcs: Would you prefer to do all in keystone sessions or none?00:42
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ekcsramineni_: how did you figure out exactly what to pass to client instantiation? seems heat takes endpoint but glance does not. I’m trying to get a sense of how confident we are about how we’re calling the client using session.00:42
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ekcsthinrichs: If it’s just murano I’m okay with splitting.00:43
ramineni_ekcs: i have checked the client code , what parameters it accepts00:43
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ekcsgot it. ramineni_ if you feel confident about it then I’m okay with using session for glance and heat.00:44
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ekcsit worries me a little bit why glance doesn’t take endpoint. like what if by not providing endpoint something goes wrong later.00:45
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thinrichsekcs: when you tried the sessions with Glance, did you see the same problem you saw before?00:45
thinrichsNo, right?00:45
ekcsRight. my testing says it works.00:46
ramineni_ekcs: using keystone sessions is straight forward, I have used the same example code in keystoneclient itself00:46
thinrichsCould always be another, different issue down the road that we just haven't waited long enough to see.00:46
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thinrichsBut I think that with that kind of bug, we probably wouldn't catch it even if we merged this patch a month ago.00:47
ekcsI’m happy with using session. It just scares me when we’re deducing from code how to call client instantiation. but well.00:47
thinrichsekcs: makes sense.  It's good that you raise it.00:48
ekcsI’m almost exactly on the fence. So I think we should do sessions since thinrichs and ramineni_ like that.00:48
ekcsI would’ve argued muchmore strongly for staying with the workaround if the action execution wasn’t an issue.00:49
thinrichsekcs: action-execution is an issue?  I missed that somehow?00:49
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ramineni_ekcs: me too..action-execution?00:49
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openstackLaunchpad bug 1564152 in congress "When 1 driver fails to load, all drivers fail to list (Error 500)" [Undecided,New]00:50
ekcsoh wrong bug.00:50
openstackLaunchpad bug 1564115 in congress "auth_token expiry on action execution (Glance, Murano)" [Undecided,New]00:51
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ekcssession would fix this issue. extending the client recreate workaround to this issue would be ugly.00:51
thinrichsI was actually barely on the side of the sessions before.  This pushes me more toward sessions.00:52
ramineni_ekcs: did u test with sessions00:52
ekcsI guess we have a decision then.00:53
ekcsramineni_: no I didn’t test with sessions. but sessions should fix it.00:53
ramineni_ekcs: action execution, i didnt do any testing related to that ..so00:53
ekcsright that’s a worry. but authentication *should* be the same.00:54
thinrichsSounds like we want to do 2 things before tomorrow morning...00:54
thinrichstest that action-execution works for Glance/Heat with sessions00:54
thinrichsand fix up Murano to either use sessions properly.00:54
thinrichsor to use the workaround (which ekcs finished).00:55
ramineni_thinrichs: ok00:55
thinrichsSorry…that was unclear:00:55
thinrichs(i) Test action-execution for Glance/Heat with sessions.00:55
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thinrichs(ii) Fix up Murano to use sessions or abandon that and use the workaround. And then test polling and action-execution.00:56
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thinrichsramineni_, ekcs: do either of you have time for those?00:56
ramineni_thinrichs: ill check (ii) , ekcs, can u do quick testing on i, as you have env?00:57
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ekcsI can work on testing. but I’m not sure I’ll be able to do action execution test on heat.00:57
thinrichsekcs: why the problem with Heat?00:57
ekcsI’ll give it a go.00:58
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ekcsThe only action I could find was start a new stack. and I haven’t been able to get that working.00:58
thinrichsramineni_: if you finish up with Murano soon, maybe ekcs will still have time to test it.00:58
thinrichsekcs: makes sense00:58
ekcsbut at least I should be able to check that the client attempted the action execution and didn’t run into auth issue.00:59
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ekcseven if the action failed.00:59
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thinrichs1 minute remaining.  Let's hop onto #congress to finish up quickly.00:59
ramineni_thinrichs: sure, i will check on it, as soon as i reach office00:59
ramineni_thinrichs: dont have test env now00:59
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thinrichsramineni_: Great!  It's worth a shot at having ekcs do the testing at least.  Otherwise, we may not have time.01:00
thinrichsramineni_: How long until you think you'll have something?01:00
thinrichsekcs: If we can't test Heat action execution, that's fine.01:00
ekcsok see you on #congress.01:00
thinrichsekcs: maybe if you have some spare time, and ramineni_ hasn't finished the Murano session, you could test the Murano workaround.01:01
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thinrichsOut of time.01:01
thinrichsThanks all!01:01
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openstackMeeting ended Thu Mar 31 01:01:07 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)01:01
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* fifieldt spots jproulx13:58
jproulxHi fifieldt13:59
fifieldtpumped and ready?13:59
jproulxdazed and confused :)13:59
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fifieldtdo we have a Shamail?14:00
jproulxI was expecting one...14:00
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fifieldtwait for a few?14:01
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fifieldtjproulx, look!14:01
fifieldtit's a shamail14:01
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fifieldtas if by magic :)14:01
shamailHi jproulx and fifieldt!14:01
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shamailSomeone needs to start the meeting :)14:03
fifieldtgot the commands handy?14:03
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fifieldtor I can look them up14:03
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shamailDo "#startmeeting ops tags"14:03
fifieldt#startmeeting ops tags14:04
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openstackMeeting started Thu Mar 31 14:04:09 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is fifieldt. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:04
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ops tags)"14:04
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ops_tags'14:04
shamailAwesome, thanks.14:04
fifieldtThanks for arranging the agenda14:04
fifieldtlooks like 3 items today14:04
fifieldt1) Review open changes14:04
fifieldt2) Discuss tag update plans for Mitaka14:04
fifieldt3) Planning for ops-tags meeting at the Austin Summit14:04
fifieldt#topic Review Open Changes14:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Review Open Changes (Meeting topic: ops tags)"14:05
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jproulxproj_since_descriptor: Thierry says this is already on the navigator (derived from repo info).  Is there a reason to duplicate (or replace) as an ops-tag?14:05
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shamailYes I agree.14:05
jproulxthat there's no reason to duplicate?14:05
shamailWhen I had proposed it, I wasn't aware it was on navigator.  I can abandon the request.14:05
jproulxI didn't realize that either, OK one down :)14:06
fifieldtless maint effort is good :)14:06
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shamailThe only question I have is whether it makes to show this for other projects beyond navigator coverage?14:06
shamailOr if that data is accessible somewhere too?14:06
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fifieldtthe data is coming from somewhere14:06
fifieldtI'm just not sure where14:06
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fifieldtthe navigator is populated from public sources14:07
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shamailI am fine with abandoning because I don't think we need to maintain, but I would like to find the source eventually :)14:07
jproulxTheirry said it was auto derrived but not recorded anywhere execpt the navigator14:07
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fifieldtI think it's under the release info14:08
jproulxIf we find we need ot start duplicating that code, then making it a tag taht used that code makes sense14:08
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fifieldtthat has the versions of projects released14:08
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fifieldtso possible to derive age from that14:08
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fifieldtall good?14:09
shamailI can't copy his comment from the review but he said they use git history and git tags.14:09
fifieldtsame stuff then14:09
jproulx#agreed proj_since_descriptor: not needed at this time as it duplicates info already in teh navigator14:10
fifieldtnext up, an easy one: Add Ops tag template files14:10
fifieldtbasically just needs someone to finish it14:10
jproulxodd this one has stalled, can we just add in fifieldt's suggestion and publish it?14:10
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shamailI can take the action14:11
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fifieldt#action shamail to update template patch to incorporate comments and publish14:12
fifieldtok, next up14:12
fifieldtAdd ops:ha tag14:12
fifieldtThis has a few comments that appeared to reach a consensus on an update14:12
jproulxthat one is probably in need of face to face discussion in Austin14:12
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shamailjproulx: +114:12
fifieldtwould be nice to get those updates made prior to the discussion if possible14:12
fifieldtso we present the latest thinking14:12
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fifieldtany takers?14:13
shamailSorry was reviewing the comments14:13
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shamailI think it makes sense and I can also check status of HA guide coverage14:13
shamailI'll take it as well14:14
fifieldtthank you!14:14
fifieldt#action shamail to update ops:ha tag with latest comments in prep for austin discussion14:14
fifieldtfinal one14:14
jproulxshamail needs a prize...14:14
fifieldtthis one was submitted incomplete14:14
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shamailjproulx: :-)14:14
jproulxcriteria is a bit weak "someone somewhere claims to have done", perhaps docs or it didn't happen? This seems to be noted in comments as well14:15
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fifieldtprobably not fixable without further discussion]14:15
shamailWe had discussed this one previously and we debated the intent/usefulness14:15
shamailfifieldt: +114:15
fifieldtleave it and see how it goes in austin?14:15
jproulxfifieldt +114:15
fifieldt#agreed - leave containerizable to austin14:16
fifieldtok, next agenda item14:16
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fifieldt#topic Discuss tag update plans for Mitaka14:16
*** openstack changes topic to "Discuss tag update plans for Mitaka (Meeting topic: ops tags)"14:16
shamailI wanted to start automating some of the tags but as I looked around, I couldn't identify sources for some.14:16
fifieldtso, we have 4 tags to update14:16
shamailHas install guide is self explanatory14:16
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fifieldtops-docs-install-guide, ops-packaged, ops-production-use, ops-sdk-support14:17
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shamailBut is the SDK data published somewhere or the packaging data?14:17
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fifieldtSDK support comes from
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fifieldtrequires a quick run through the "alive" SDKs to see if any new support added14:17
fifieldtthat was last done in December, so probably not too out of date14:18
annegentlefifieldt: is that spreadsheet sorta derived from the firstapp?14:18
shamailThat is harder to automate than I expected, was anticipating a doc or repo source.14:18
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jproulxpackaging I think we need to search some (yet to be?) defined repos14:18
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annegentleshamail: yeah was thinking of something we could tie it to14:18
shamailannegentle: +114:18
fifieldtannegentle, naw14:18
fifieldtbasically I've been digging into the SDKs themselves14:18
annegentlefifieldt: ah yeah it's wider net casting which is also good14:19
fifieldtkey feature - noting "dead" SDKs :)14:19
annegentleyeah wonder if it could be automated from github api then if that's the main piece of data14:19
shamailJust to record it when I go looking for it again.14:19
fifieldtCraig S at Intel has been contacting the SDK-builder communities of late14:19
fifieldthe may have good enough contacts now that we can just send one email per SDK saying "any updates?"14:20
fifieldtbut I expect few over the past months14:20
shamailI can investigate the repos for the SDKs to see if there are any clues in commits14:21
fifieldtAppEcoWG might be able to help, too14:21
fifieldtthey have a few more peeps than us14:21
shamailCraig is a good starting point though to update/refresh for the new release14:21
shamailfifieldt: +1, I'll contact Flanders and John14:21
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fifieldt#action shamail to ask flanders and john for help on updating sdk-support tag14:22
shamailThe packaging one is interesting...14:22
fifieldtalways :)14:22
fifieldtbasically looking for new projects and new major bugs14:22
fifieldta key source of the latter is the docs team :)14:22
fifieldtfrom their install guide testing14:22
jproulxseems we should be able to search some well know repos (though bugs are trickier to identify than does it exist)14:23
fifieldtwith that one, I'd start by copy/pasting the previous releases json and submitting it as-is for mitaka14:23
fifieldtthen taking a look at what new and upcoming projects are listed in the user survey14:23
fifieldtsee if they're freshly packaged for mitaka in a couple distros14:23
shamailthe other thing I wanted to mention is that we only tag it as "good" and don't provide specifics on which distributions have packages.  Any reason for that?14:23
fifieldtthe old ones should not really go away14:24
fifieldtshamail, maintenance14:24
fifieldtthe effort to create an exhaustive matrix is significant14:24
jproulxdon't have the tag in  front of me, do you know if it defines where we look for packages?  probably should so people can point us at new places if the pop up14:24
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fifieldtand, if you want to know if a package exists for your distro, apt-cache search :)14:24
shamailGot it.14:24
fifieldtit doesn't define where we look14:25
shamailthanks fifieldt14:25
fifieldtit's a general quality indicator14:25
fifieldtthat also provides some info about any traps14:25
fifieldtkey things we're looking for are mostly to do with new projects14:25
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fifieldtor badly botched packaging for older ones14:25
jproulxfifieldt +114:25
fifieldtops-production-use is directly from the user survey14:26
shamailAlright, so I wanted to refresh that one then I would need to talk to the docs team to find out the condition and look for new things in the packaging repos?14:26
fifieldtyeah, matt kassawara is a good individual, but basically the docs install guide specialty team14:26
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shamailGot it.  Thanks.14:26
annegentlefifieldt: which is just Matt right now :)14:26
shamailI'll try to get a head start on this before Austin14:27
shamailSo we can review in person14:27
annegentleshamail: he's Sam-i-am on irc14:27
shamailThanks annegentle14:27
fifieldtto kill two birds with one stone, docs team should also be contacted about the install guide tag14:27
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fifieldtsee if they have any new projects14:27
fifieldtany worries or concerns about existing ones14:27
annegentlefifieldt: should that be discoverable without having to contact a person?14:28
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fifieldtof course :)14:28
jproulxI think it *should* be14:28
fifieldtjust cuz politeness14:28
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annegentleI'd love to automate docs completeness somehow, ideas?14:29
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annegentlefilenaming is pretty consistent14:29
annegentlecould scrape the docs repos ever release?14:29
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fifieldtand the guides in individual project repos ? :)14:30
fifieldtwhere's that xkcd comic about automation14:30
shamailIs there a classification matrix anywhere today that shows the doc types per project and branch?14:30
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annegentleyes fifieldt it wouldn't be too bad since we're consistent in dir names and tox jobs14:30
annegentleshamail: thinking it wouldn't be hard to make, but there isn't one now14:30
* fifieldt is all for automation14:30
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annegentleonly headache is sometimes there's a folder but there's garbage docs14:31
fifieldtin the case where automation doesn't exist, just cp liberty/install-guide.json mitaka/install-guide.json14:31
shamailannegentle: +114:31
annegentlebut still if it has build jobs, someone somewhere thought it was ready to publish? I am asking not telling :)14:31
fifieldtvery few changes between releases14:31
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shamailYeah, fifieldt I was going to wait until the user survey report is released and snag the data.14:31
annegentleI also envision automating "docs drift" where you measure the time between code commits and docs commits difference14:32
shamailFor install guide, I'll take your approach.14:32
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fifieldtoh, I like that one annegentle :)14:32
annegentledo you mind posting a link to the repo here?14:32
shamailthat would be interesting annegentle14:32
fifieldtthis one annegentle ?
annegentlefifieldt: yes thank you14:32
annegentlesaves me a lookup :)14:32
fifieldtshamail - will have to see when the survey is released14:33
fifieldtif it isn't released before release day14:33
fifieldtI have pre-release data we can use14:33
shamailSo far, I am struggling to find where we could automate validation for ops tags.  Sadly.14:33
shamailfifieldt: +114:33
shamailI don't think it will be... The plan is in next couple of weeks14:33
shamailBut release week is stretch14:34
fifieldtok, I'll take the action on production-use then14:34
annegentleshamail: what mechanisms are in place now? Basically "take the json from the ops-tags-team repo and publish to matrix?"14:34
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fifieldt#action fifieldt to udpate project-use tag14:34
fifieldtthat's how it happens, annegentle :)14:34
annegentlefifieldt: ok thought so.14:34
fifieldtone thing I would love is some json validation in the gate :)14:34
shamailI was also referring to updating the JSON on the tag itself14:34
annegentlefifieldt: oh so like writing a schema?14:34
annegentlefifieldt: or "this is json yes it is"14:34
fifieldtjust plain json test14:34
fifieldtyes :)14:34
shamailIn these conversations, we identified very little things that could be scraped (except for docs)14:35
fifieldtat the moment lacking even that14:35
annegentleyeah we have that14:35
fifieldtit totally exists14:35
annegentleI mean, we have that gate test, just a matter of patching infra14:35
fifieldtjust need to write the jobs14:35
* fifieldt is the worst offender of broken json14:35
annegentleprolly me :)14:35
fifieldtok. is everyone happy with the updates of existing tags for mitaka?14:35
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shamailfifieldt: +114:35
fifieldtok, goodo14:36
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fifieldtmoving on14:36
fifieldt#topic planning for Austin14:36
*** openstack changes topic to "planning for Austin (Meeting topic: ops tags)"14:36
fifieldtops-tags-team was submitted as a WG for Monday's ops summit stuff14:36
shamailYeah, saw that.14:36
fifieldtis a 40 minute slot enough14:36
shamailLast time we went over but it was a meeting worth having popcorn for!14:37
jproulxI suspect a longer slot would be better14:37
shamailjproulx: +1, we usually have more participants14:37
fifieldtI will wrangle a schedule so we get a good slot that both of you are available for14:38
jproulxWe've got containerizable and ha on the table already each of thos is probably good for 30min14:38
fifieldtthis is harder than normal14:38
fifieldtsince we're doing working sessions and general sessions in parallel this time14:38
shamailI can email you my schedule for Monday later this evening14:39
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fifieldtso, schedule for the double session then?14:39
* jproulx should probably look at his summit schedule real soon now14:39
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fifieldtas in, what's our agenda?14:40
shamailI'll start populating ideas on the etherpad14:40
fifieldtas a start, I think we need some brainstorming14:40
fifieldthow about
shamailYep, that's the one14:41
jproulxwell we have the two hot tags we've carried forward14:41
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jproulxand we should think & work hard on automating what we've got14:41
shamail"Revising automation"14:41
jproulxso maybe 1st 1/2 tag review second 1/2 tag automation roughly14:42
shamailexpand/discuss maturity components14:42
shamailAnd missing tags based on definition14:42
fifieldtneed some time to try and come up with new tagsd14:42
fifieldtleech the newcomer's ideas14:42
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shamailjproulx: sounds good... 1st half could be discussion on tags content and 2nd half could be focused on procedures and processes14:43
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jproulxYes that's a better description14:44
shamailDocumenting sources for all the tags (maybe in the tag itself) might be a useful thing to consider in 2nd half as well14:44
fifieldtalso, at some point, we need to define how core review rights on the repo works14:44
fifieldtat the moment it's just the UC14:44
fifieldtand I think shamail should be included :)14:44
fifieldtso someone just needs to make a decision about how we do that14:44
shamail:-) definitely an in person topic14:44
fifieldtaye, aye14:45
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fifieldtok, so we have the skeleton of the agenda for austin14:45
fifieldtanything else?14:45
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shamailThat's all from me!14:45
jproulxSounds good14:45
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fifieldt#topic anything else?14:46
*** openstack changes topic to "anything else? (Meeting topic: ops tags)"14:46
fifieldt14 minutes left in this slot14:46
shamailI'll start on action items and report out (if you don't see changes coming in)14:46
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fifieldtwant it back?14:46
jproulxmeetings are so fast and efficient with 4 participants :)14:46
fifieldtbig props to guest star annegentle14:46
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annegentledocs drift. it's a thing14:46
shamailThanks Ann!14:46
fifieldtok then14:47
jproulxthanks all14:47
shamailMy phone... :(14:47
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"14:47
openstackMeeting ended Thu Mar 31 14:47:13 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)14:47
openstackMinutes (text):
shamailThanks!  See you in Austin everyone14:47
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fifieldtsee you in Austin14:47
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dmelladoHi ;)16:02
Sam-I-Amanyone here for the networking guide meeting?16:02
dmelladommm I thought it was qa meeting now16:03
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* dmellado checking time zones and calendar16:03
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* Sam-I-Am looks too16:03
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dmelladobut now I'm kinda confused16:04
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Sam-I-Amits also not 1700 utc16:04
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dmelladoSam-I-Am: my fault16:04
Sam-I-Ami see the qa meeting in 1 hour16:04
dmelladotime zone changed in my zone due to daylight saving16:05
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Sam-I-Ammadorn: you here for networking?16:05
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Sam-I-Amdmellado: yeah, mine did that a couple weeks ago and messed stuff up16:05
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dmelladosorry for the noise Sam-I-Am16:05
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Sam-I-Amdmellado: no problem16:06
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Sam-I-Amanyone else for the networking guide meeting?16:06
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Sam-I-Ammadorn: might just be you and me16:08
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madornSam, are you still working on the guide? Thought you passed the torch to Edgar16:09
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Sam-I-Amedgar is just heading up the sub-team16:09
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Sam-I-Amhowever neither of us have time to work on the guide anymore16:10
Sam-I-Amwe're seeing some contributions from neutron devs which is great16:10
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Sam-I-Ambut updating the guide for mitaka will not happen16:10
Sam-I-Amat least not by me16:10
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Sam-I-Ami am very limited in how much i can contribute upstream16:10
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Sam-I-Amso if you want to update the scenarios for mitaka, that'd be great. there's not a whole lot that needs to be done. mostly config changes and testing.16:11
madorni see, have there been any mitaka networking guide contributions yet?16:11
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Sam-I-Amyeah, mostly new features for neutron16:12
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Sam-I-Amno updates to the existing scenarios16:12
Sam-I-Amthere is a new scenario in the pipeline for some dvr thing16:12
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madorni can mention to phil as well16:12
Sam-I-Ami havent had a chance to look at it16:12
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Sam-I-Amtheres pretty much no way to get it done before release now16:13
Sam-I-Amso it'll just go stale like it did for other releases16:13
Sam-I-Ami'm tired of being held responsible for it16:13
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Sam-I-Amif openstack wants it, openstack can maintain it16:13
Sam-I-Amif they dont, it'll just die slowly16:13
madorni understand, are you guys still going to publish the link to mitaka guide though16:13
madornthis one:
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Sam-I-Ami didnt even know that was published yet16:14
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Sam-I-Ambut yeah, thats where it'd be16:14
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dmelladojust out of curiosity, now than I'm here, what would you be missing for the guide, guys?16:16
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dmelladoI tried to help on that but I usually just lack time ;)16:16
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Sam-I-Amdmellado: the scenarios all need to be updated for mitaka16:17
Sam-I-Amand tested16:17
Sam-I-Amits days of work16:17
dmelladoI see, so quite the stuff yet16:17
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madornSam, when you originally created the guide and tested the deployment scenarios, when type of environment (source, package, etc.) were you working of16:18
madornwhen = what16:18
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emaganasorry.. I am late...16:23
emaganaits a busy day16:23
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emaganaanyway, I dont see the meeting was started.. Sam-I-Am we did not have quorum?16:24
Sam-I-Amemagana: nope16:24
emaganagot it... maybe we should have one catch up between us..16:24
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Sam-I-Ammadorn: i was usually using some sort of packages... based on the install guide.16:24
Sam-I-Amemagana: it was just me and madorn16:24
navinrioHi Everyone16:24
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madornSam, also, for the newly added stuff for Mitaka, are they using the same program that you used to create the images? were you using omnigraffle?16:25
madornlooks different16:25
Sam-I-Ammordred: you mean the patch in the queue for dvr stuff?16:26
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Sam-I-Amerrr madorn16:26
madorni havent seen that yet - i was talkin about that new macvlan stuff16:27
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Sam-I-Ammadorn: oh, i have no idea what was being used16:28
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Sam-I-Ammadorn: i still use omnigraffle when i can16:30
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Sam-I-Ami would like to keep everything consistent, but i just dont have time anymore16:30
Sam-I-Amfor pretty much anything upstream16:30
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Sam-I-Amits creating a lot of technical debt16:30
madorndo you have any of the original project files from the work you did?16:30
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Sam-I-Amthe original .graffle files are in the repo16:31
emagananavinrio: HI.. I think we did not have enough people for the meeting16:31
emaganajust having a casual chat16:31
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Sam-I-Amemagana: i'm guessing you havent had much time lately either16:33
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emaganaSam-I-Am: I was on vacations for a couple of weeks16:33
madornSam, I will get with Phil let him know we need deployment scenarios for Mitaka.16:33
emaganajust came back..  :-)16:34
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navinrioemagana: I was also holiday too16:35
Sam-I-Amemagana: you're allowed vacation?16:36
emaganaSam-I-Am: This time I was forced!16:36
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emaganatrip to take care of some family staff16:36
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navinrioDVR feature i am planning to do testing and document is this still open ?16:38
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mordredSam-I-Am: I do mean the patch in queue for dvr stuff ;)16:41
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Sam-I-Ammordred: ?16:41
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mordredSam-I-Am: you accidentlaly pinged me earlier, and now I'm just trying to be funny16:42
Sam-I-Ammordred: oh, ok. haaaaa :)16:42
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Sam-I-Amwell, i guess we're done here16:45
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oomichi#startmeeting qa17:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Mar 31 17:00:51 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is oomichi. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)"17:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'qa'17:00
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oomichihi, anyone here today ?17:01
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dmelladooh, hi tosky ;)17:01
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oomichihi all :-)17:02
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oomichiok, lets get start17:02
oomichi^^^ today agenda17:02
oomichi#topic #Spec reviews17:02
*** openstack changes topic to "#Spec reviews (Meeting topic: qa)"17:02
oomichithere are some active specs17:03
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oomichione is o-h spec17:03
oomichithat seems old now, is it necessary still now?17:03
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mtreinishoomichi: I think I asked that exact question in the spec :)17:04
oomichimost part seems already implemented, it seems unnecessary17:04
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oomichimtreinish: to andreaf?17:04
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jordanPoomichi, no, in a comment17:05
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jordanPI mean, yes to andreaf, but on Gerrit17:05
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oomichijordanP: ah, I see.17:05
oomichiok, lets wait for andreaf comment17:05
mtreinishoomichi: yeah I left a comment on it asking why it's still need. I also screwed up with gertty and dropped my -1 by accident17:06
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dmelladogertty is dangerous, even more if there's a cat around...17:06
oomichimtreinish: yeah, it is nice to put -1 for getting attention17:06
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oomichibtw, I put another spec:
oomichithat is for changing json-schema format for fitting swagger17:07
oomichiswagger is defined as standard in all openstack projects17:07
mtreinishoomichi: is that just changing how we write the dictionaries in the schema files?17:08
oomichiso I feel it is nice to make our json-schema also fit it17:08
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oomichimtreinish: yeah, right. that is a small changes17:08
oomichiin schema files17:08
jordanPdoes Swagger "enforce"/check the response as json-schema does ?17:08
mtreinishoomichi: is there something we gain by doing that? I mean sure swagger is "the direction" but it's not like we're gonna generate api docs from tempest17:08
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oomichijordanP: sorry, I cannot catch your meanin17:09
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oomichimtreinish: no, that is not current purpose.17:09
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jordanPI though we use json-schema because it has a python binding that checks that the responses we got match the expected response17:10
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oomichiI don't think it is nice to generate doc from tempest at this time, but that is a surper long-term direction for me17:10
oomichijordanP: yeah, you are right.17:10
jordanPin Tempest we  have "import jsonschema", are we going to replace this with "import swagger" ?17:10
jordanPanyway, this looks like low priority to me, like a "nice to have"17:11
oomichijordanP: swagger is using jsonshema as the definition. but we defined some part of our jsonschema by our own way17:11
mtreinishoomichi: right, so I'm wondering is all the churn necessary just to be consistent with an API WG recommendation?17:11
oomichiI am trying to change it to swagger way17:12
jordanPok. If that's a relatively small/contained change, then go for it :)17:12
oomichimtreinish: nice point. all jsonschema definition can be changed in tempest for that.17:12
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dmelladooomichi: so then all the jsonschema will have to be changed?17:13
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oomichidmellado: yeah, I hope so.17:13
oomichiit is not difficult, but many ;-(17:13
dmelladoagain xD17:14
oomichiso it is nice to get some helps for that17:14
oomichidmellado: yeah, nice point. sorry about that17:14
dmelladoI've one question, would the API WG change (swagger) affect the tempest compatibility when it comes to previous os pversions?17:14
dmelladoI'm not really savy in terms of this swagger stuff, so I could use some explanation on this17:15
mtreinishoomichi: right, that's why I'm asking do we really want to do this? I feel like this doesn't buy us anything really useful besides saying we use swagger17:15
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oomichimtreinish: humm, *I* really want to buy ;_)17:16
oomichimtreinish: humm, *I* really want to buy ;-)17:16
mtreinishoomichi: ok, I'll tkae up my concerns in the review17:17
mtreinishwe continue discussing there17:17
oomichimtreinish: thanks, yea, lets move on17:17
oomichithanks all :-)17:17
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oomichidoes anyone have more topic about spec now?17:17
oomichiok, lets move on to the next topic17:18
oomichi#topic priority items17:18
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mtreinishoomichi: fwiw, there is 1 week left in mitaka :)17:19
oomichimost targets are done in mitaka17:19
mtreinishnot a lot of time left to close any last min things17:19
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oomichimtreinish: yeah, just one week17:19
oomichido we have any items before mitaka now?17:19
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jordanPI think "Finalize ssh-auth bp" is done17:20
jordanPthat's what jlanoux and andreaf said17:20
jordanPlast meeting17:20
oomichijordanP: cool :_)17:20
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oomichiok, how about concentrating on the next cycle?17:21
oomichifor the next summit topics17:21
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oomichithat is next next next topic17:21
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jordanPsure sure sure17:22
oomichiok, lets move on17:22
oomichi#topic Tempest17:22
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oomichithere are still a lot of tempest patches17:22
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oomichiI dont have any topic about tempest now17:23
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oomichido anyone have that?17:23
jordanPmy patch to replace httplib2 by urllib3 is green:
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dmelladojordanP: saw it, I think it'd be great to have that in mitaka17:24
jordanPother than that, my next match is going to remove our dependency on mox17:24
dmelladoand not related directly to tempest, but I'd love to have reviews on this17:24
jordanPwe should use mock nowadays17:24
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dmelladojordanP: any other 'deprecated' lib?17:25
mtreinishjordanP: we use mock in most places IIRC17:25
oomichijordanP: ok, will review it later17:25
mtreinishthere might be a few lingering mox usages from when I first added unit tests17:25
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jordanPyeagh, replacing mox is going to be triviial17:25
jordanPI already have the patch, it's a 30 lines patch. Going to submit it soon17:25
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jordanPdmellado, you should seek support from Neutron guys on this patch17:26
oomichijordanP: one question17:26
dmelladojordanP: I'm doing that too ;)17:26
oomichijordanP: about
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oomichithat is adding volume test, and most volume test tends to wast the time17:27
mtreinishthe only critical thing I have for tempest this week is:
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oomichijordanP: the patch is good from the viewpoint?17:27
mtreinishwe just need to make sure that lands before we can push the next tempest release to mark mitaka17:27
oomichimtreinish: that contains jordanP comment, that seems reasonable17:27
jordanPoomichi, this patch is good yes. But let's not merge it before we reach concensus about what should we do about long running tests17:27
jordanPand tests that only touch one service17:28
oomichijordanP: ok, nice info. nice to mark it as WIP17:28
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mtreinishjordanP: we do have the slow tag, which will make it only run on periodic/experimental17:28
jordanPit's not a WIP, anyway. Ahh yeah, I forgot about the slow tag. Good idea17:29
jordanPlet's not worry about this patch17:29
dmelladoyes, please it'll be nice to add that slow tag in the notes too17:29
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oomichijordanP: hehe, ok. fine :-)17:30
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jordanPnext cycle I am going to focus on reducing technical debt and complexity in tempest17:30
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jordanPand try to have faster running tests17:30
mtreinishjordanP: awesome17:30
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oomichijordanP: cool ;)17:30
dmelladohow about the tempest refactor?17:30
dmelladowill that be included in your goal jordanP ?17:30
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oomichidmellado: ah nice point.17:31
jordanP"refactor" is a big vague. what do you have in mind ?17:31
dmelladojordanP: well, it was marked as a point for mitaka17:31
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jordanPif refactoring needs to be done, refactoring will be done17:31
jordanPdmellado, link ?17:31
dmelladoand I was wondering about the exact meaning too17:32
oomichidmellado: maybe you are saying ?17:32
dmelladooomichi: let me check17:32
jordanPah ok17:32
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dmelladojordanP: yep17:32
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dmelladomaybe we can chat about the exact goal in the design summit17:32
mtreinishoh, that etherpad I made. It was just a title, I didn't put deep meaning behind the title17:33
jordanPyeah, there are some good ideas there17:33
oomichithat is already put on the session proposals on the etherpad17:34
oomichias design session17:34
dmelladooomichi: cool then ;)17:34
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oomichiok, anyone have more topic about tempest now?17:34
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oomichi#topic DevStack + Grenade17:35
*** openstack changes topic to "DevStack + Grenade (Meeting topic: qa)"17:35
oomichidtroyer: are you there for devstack?17:35
mtreinishthe only news here I think is we've branched devstack and grenade for mitaka17:36
oomichimtreinish: nice news:-)17:36
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oomichiah, one question about devstack17:36
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oomichisometime devstack makes bugs disappear because it changes default setting values17:37
oomichiand we faced bugs on production clouds17:37
oomichiso I feel it is nice to make devstack small as possible17:38
mordredoomichi: ++17:38
oomichiis it a right direction17:38
jordanPthat's the current direction indeed17:38
jordanPdevstack plugins and stuff17:38
mtreinishoomichi: devstack tries to use the defaults where possible, but sometimes we can't always17:38
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mordred(also, btw, devstack-gate should contain as little extra logic that's not in devstack itself)17:38
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oomichimtreinish: yeah, that is difficult point17:38
oomichimordred: ah, nice advice, thanks17:39
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oomichiok, my question is done, thanks17:39
jordanPI didn"t see any question :)17:39
jordanPI yes, my bad17:39
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jordanPthe question mark came after17:40
oomichijordanP: yeah, I was not sure that is right direstion to be honest17:40
jordanPI think it is the right direction and devstack plugins are awesome17:40
mordredI have a question that may fit on this general topic, but it might should have come up when the topic was tempest (sorry)17:40
jordanPwe have so many of them, it works17:40
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mtreinishmordred: go for it17:41
oomichijordanP: ok, lets talk about it on open discussion17:41
mordredI have been told that tempest does not do well on clouds that do not have floating ips ... is there anybody working on support for provider-network only clouds and it not would work on such a thing be acceptable?17:41
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mordred(assuming everyone knows how evil I tink fips are in the first place)17:41
mtreinishmordred: it should work fine, but I don't think that's the default configuration17:41
mordredmtreinish: ok. so there should be a config setting I just need to find? cool17:41
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jordanPI don"t think it should work well17:42
mordredmtreinish: I will look harder and find you for follow up questions if I can't find it17:42
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jordanPthe scenarios assume floating ip now17:42
mtreinishmordred: likely a couple of options17:42
mtreinishjordanP: really, that's broken17:42
mordredjordanP: so I might need to update scenarios?17:42
jordanPlemme double check, but I think so17:42
dmelladomordred: but that could also be the case for scenarios coming from plugins...17:42
mtreinishmordred: I was gonna point you to:
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dmelladolet's wait for jordanP17:43
mordreddmellado: I think right now we're just trying core stuff, but good point - I'll start looking through those next17:43
mordredmtreinish: awesome docs thing17:43
jordanPno I think am wrong :)17:44
jordanPsorry about that17:44
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jordanPthe relevant config flag is CONF.validation.connect_method17:44
mordredwoot! that's happy making.17:44
mordredbest openstack meeting ever. thanks everybody17:44
dmelladoso that's the same as per mtreinish link ;)17:45
oomichimordred: cool :)17:45
oomichianyone have more items about devstack?17:45
oomichiok, lets move on17:46
oomichi#topic Austin Summit17:46
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oomichiwe have 8 ideas now for 8 slots17:46
jordanPpb is we have a couple of scenarios (2 or 3) that calls directly manager.create_floating_ip(). This should be fixed and use get_server_ip() instead. This is something to look at17:46
oomichiso it is nice to get more ideas on the etherpad17:46
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mtreinishoomichi: I counted 9 :)17:46
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oomichimtreinish: ah, miss:-(17:47
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oomichiare there any strong recommendation about the summit topic? ;)17:47
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oomichiit is nice to vote for each session by writting names17:48
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mtreinishoomichi: when will we make decisions?17:48
-openstackstatus- NOTICE: Job failures for missing traceroute packages are in the process of being fixed now, ETA 30 minutes to effectiveness for new jobs17:48
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oomichimtreinish: you and me, and when..? sorry, I need to know it17:48
mtreinishoomichi: well we've done it as part of the qa meeting in the past17:49
dmelladowhat's the ETA for the decission before the summit?17:49
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oomichithat is based on the voting I feel17:49
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mtreinishoomichi, dmellado: I think we'll probably make decisions on like the 14th17:50
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mtreinishwe need to have things sorted a week or 2 before summit starts17:50
oomichimtreinish: thanks. OK, I will send a mail to -dev about this later with the deadline17:50
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oomichiok, lets move on17:51
oomichito the next topic17:51
oomichi#topic critical reviews17:51
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oomichiplease put patch links for that;-)17:51
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jswarrenNot critical, but would love to get eyes on
oomichijswarren: thanks17:52
oomichiany more?17:53
jordanPjswarren, it would be great if you could ping andreaf about it17:53
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jswarrenjordanP: Ok.  Will do.17:54
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mtreinishjswarren: does that conflict with the change we pushed at the midcycle for cleaning up the aliasing in one of those files17:54
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jswarrenmtreinish: trying to remember.17:55
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jswarrenThat was
mtreinishjswarren: yeah I think so17:55
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jswarrenIt does not conflict.17:56
mtreinishok cool17:56
mtreinishwas just curious17:56
oomichiboth are now by jswarren now17:57
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oomichiit is nice to write on dependency?17:57
oomichijust an idea17:57
jswarrenThey are actually not dependent.17:58
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oomichijswarren: we can avoid some concern like mtreinish's one17:58
oomichijswarren: it is nice to keep it on current way also17:58
oomichijust one idea ;)17:59
oomichiare there any topic about this more?17:59
oomichiok, thanks all18:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"18:00
openstackMeeting ended Thu Mar 31 18:00:05 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:00
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Qijinghas anybody tried the patches for nested quotas driver api?18:18
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QijingThey don't work, I tested them with devstack master branch.18:21
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dtroyer#startmeeting openstackclient19:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Mar 31 19:00:42 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is dtroyer. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstackclient)"19:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstackclient'19:00
dtroyerHey folks, who is here?19:00
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dtroyerfor the first time in a while we have some non-default agenda items19:02
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sheeldtroyer: :)19:03
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baumannHappy to help out :D19:03
dtroyerI added the first one first because It should be much shorter and I want to get to it19:03
dtroyer#topic meeting time19:03
*** openstack changes topic to "meeting time (Meeting topic: openstackclient)"19:03
dtroyerThere was a discussion in IRC yesterday about changing the meeting time.  The initial proposal was to move it earlier on Thursday19:04
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dtroyerIRC meeting rooms are mostly booked at the time that was suggested19:04
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sheelyep, I checked it... from 1300 til 1800 -all days were booked19:05
dtroyeralso, it drives the time deeper into the night for APAC folks19:05
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dtroyermany project alternate meeting times to attempt to deal with this19:05
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sheelI would suggest for alternate in our case as well if possible19:06
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dtroyerSince we do not have everyone represented here, we should have the final discussion on the ML to find an acceptable alternate time, if that is where we want to go19:07
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rtheissounds good19:07
rtheisany initial suggestion for alternate time?19:08
stevemardtroyer: we could use a doodle thing19:08
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dtroyersheel: would you mind starting that, and proposing a couple of times to consider?19:08
dtroyera doodle works for me too19:08
sheeldtroyer: I think it is ok to keep 14:00 UTC to 16:00 UTC19:08
sheeldtroyer:  means any slot between this time19:09
dtroyerI want to be sure to get input from Tang and the others in APAC19:09
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dtroyersheel: can you start an ML thread about this?19:10
sheeldtroyer: sure, will do it19:10
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dtroyer#action sheel begins the meeting time conversation on ML19:11
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dtroyerok, next up…19:11
dtroyer#topic Cinder and OSC19:11
*** openstack changes topic to "Cinder and OSC (Meeting topic: openstackclient)"19:11
dtroyerwho wants to get this started?19:11
baumannWe'll let sheel start this one off I think19:11
sheelok, so this is about Using the "volume" keyword before all volume commands19:11
sheelthat we have for cinder19:12
* stevemar pokes DuncanT and dulek 19:12
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dtroyerI want to clarify something about that19:12
sheelThe idea was suggested in yesterday's cinder meeting to have volume before every cinder command in OSC19:12
sheelyes please19:12
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stevemardtroyer: apparently we're doing a great job of upsetting cinder folks :D19:12
rtheisthere are some objects that are common where this isn't needed19:13
dtroyerwhen we use 'volume' in 'volume type' for example, it isn't a prefix, it is as part of the resource name19:13
baumanndtroyer: Yeah I noticed that. Like volume type or volume qos19:13
dtroyerthe distinction means it isn't a blanket assumption that all 'cinder commands' gets it19:13
dtroyerit is part of the resource name19:13
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baumanndtroyer: The thing we are worried about is that if someone wants to create a "snapshot" for example, how do they know they aren't creating a "stack snapshot" or a "manilla snapshot"?19:13
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dtroyerthat makes sense to use 'volume snapshot', but because that is the resource name, not because it is a 'cinder command'19:14
dtroyerthe end result is the same, but the path to get there is different19:14
sheeldtroyer:  right19:14
dtroyerin other APIs, it is not always the same word used19:14
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dtroyerthat's why I want to be clear on the path19:15
baumanndtroyer: Agreed. But wouldn't it make it easier for the user if all volume commands just had the "volume" prefix?19:15
dtroyerhow does a user know that?19:15
jungleboyjdtroyer: What do you mean?19:15
sheelfor user these resources are nothing but the names that we are giving..19:15
dtroyerpart of the entire reason for OSC to exist is to free the user from knowing which API owns which resource19:15
sheelso adding volume makes good sense here19:16
baumanndtroyer: I agree 100%. But they have to differentiate between commands if other services use them19:16
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dtroyerso making a blanket statement that all commands supporting an API get the API name is a bad one in my opinion19:16
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baumanndtroyer: And if we always used "volume" before volume commands, there would never be confusion from users19:16
sheeldtroyer: actually idea is to segregate components19:16
baumanndtroyer: I don't disagree with you19:16
jungleboyjdtroyer: I don't understand how we can free users from knowing what resource they are acting upon.19:17
baumanndtroyer: But consistency across projects might prove to be difficult in that case, right?19:17
dtroyerthe know what resources they need, not which API or project controls them19:17
jungleboyjSo, if they are working on volume resources we shouldn't hide that.19:18
baumanndtroyer: But would it hurt to have volume before all of the volume resources?19:18
jungleboyjhaving a generic 'snapshot' command is incredibly confusing.19:18
dtroyerso a great example is 'flavor'  we have a stand-alone flavor resource that is for servers, other projects came along later and want to use flavor so they qualify it with the thing it describes19:18
dtroyer'server flavor' should be a thing, and probably will be at some point19:18
dtroyernote 'server' and not 'compute'19:18
dtroyerthis is why I make that distinction19:18
sheelif we say snapshot, they are related to volume19:18
baumanndtroyer: Then the user will need to determine if "server" has a flavor before using flavor for compute19:19
sheelso adding volume before them is ok for user as well19:19
jungleboyjdtroyer: That is where things fall apart.  There is no consistency to me it seems.  It is first come first serve and left to the user to try to figure out if they need just flavor or 'server flavor' or 'volume flavor' .... but wait, what was the first flavor?19:19
dtroyerso I can't go back and change history 4 years ago19:20
dtroyerif I was starting fresh now, it would be 'server flavor' and not just 'flavor'19:20
dtroyerso that is why 'volume snapshot' makes perfect sense19:20
baumanndtroyer: Could the projects go back and change history? :)19:20
dtroyerbut not because of the API that is being called19:20
jungleboyjdtroyer: :-)19:21
dtroyerbut because of the kind of snapshot it is19:21
sheelsame is with backup, they used to be for volume backup19:21
baumanndtroyer: That was actually one of our topics as well. Could we go back into snapshot and rework it all to be "volume snapshot"?19:21
dtroyerbaumann: I do expect we will add the qualified versions of flavor and others at some point19:21
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sheeldtroyer: so at least adding volume before backup and snapshot is good option19:21
dtroyerbut that is a loooooong transition period19:21
jungleboyjdtroyer: It was suggested that we add 'volume snapshot' and eventually deprecate the 'snapshot' one.19:21
sheeldtroyer:  and we are open to work on that19:21
baumanndtroyer: Most definitely is a long transition19:21
dtroyersure, that is the same thing19:22
dtroyerbut again, we CAN NOT break backward compatibility for a while19:22
sheeldtroyer: yes, we can deprecate older with new in parallel for some time19:22
sheeldtroyer: as suggested by jungleboyj19:22
dtroyerright, that is the process.  plus a major rev.  I expect our next major rev will have a number of breaking changes19:23
sheeldtroyer: great19:23
baumanndtroyer: It sounds like we are pretty much on the same page here, right?19:23
sheeldtroyer: I will propose this change through one spec19:23
jgregordtroyer: Gotcha19:23
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dtroyerwe are on the same page if it is clear that the process is to clearly name resources and not to just assume an API name goes at the front of a command19:24
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sheeldtroyer: yes, that is why i am saying we should propose it through spec for clear cut understanding19:24
jungleboyjsheel: ++19:24
dtroyeryes…restating it for the log ;)19:24
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sheeldtroyer:  ok, I will propose one next week...19:25
sheelthanks , may be we can move to next topic19:25
dtroyergo ahead19:25
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jungleboyjdtroyer: Just to be clear, I think we aren't trying to replace there there used to always be the word 'cinder' I.E. cinder snapshot but to clearly label when we are acting on volumes, etc.19:25
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dtroyer#action sheel to propose a spec outlining resource naming19:25
jungleboyjdtroyer: Does that help with your concern?19:26
dtroyerjungleboyj: yes.  The reason I make the distinction is the wording I way in yesterday's meeting log seemed to be just to use a blanket prefix19:26
jungleboyjdtroyer: I think we were thinking that way, but I see your concern.  We need to find the right middle ground.19:27
jungleboyjdtroyer: Thank you for discussing/considering this and we can keep working it through a spec.19:27
dtroyerthe middle ground is where the user lives.  and btw, we are doing UX testing on OSC to get an idea of how far off we are19:28
jungleboyjdtroyer: That is good.19:28
baumannDefinitely. Thanks for working with us dtroyer. I feel like we can get some good stuff done working together on this.19:28
sheeldtroyer: that's really good ... may be jgregor  and baumann  attend if time allows19:29
jungleboyjbaumann: ++19:29
dtroyerthis is all to make the user's life easier, even if it makes ours harder19:29
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dtroyerOpenStack is hard enough as is19:29
jgregordtroyer: Tep, thanks for the insight19:29
baumanndtroyer: +119:29
jungleboyjdtroyer: +!19:29
sheelok, so should we move ahead?19:30
sheelok, here we go19:30
sheelKeyword "properties" vs "metadata"19:30
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sheelshould i copy paste large text here19:30
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sheelThis may be ok if we are using property for metadata in OSC.19:31
sheelBut corresponding component must be informed about changes19:31
sheelfor their counterparts for better user experience.(I am explaining further what i mean by better user experience)19:31
sheelFurther, this may not be related as components are different and their implementations19:31
sheelare independent.19:31
sheelSo, keeping different names may be ok, which is fair enough.19:31
sheelBut actual thing is that there are certain documents/components which use metadata instead of property.19:31
sheelIn case user see metadata in docs or related component but property in OSC, then this may spoil the target for achieving good user experience.19:31
sheelAlso, we are trying to generate single CLI for user in OSC in same way as we have single horizon for GUI.19:31
sheelBut here also we are loosing similarity in terms as horizon displays metadata.19:31
sheelSo, I would suggest to keep parity for different terms upto the extend it is possible.19:31
sheelThis may be discussed and decided whether property should be changed to metadata or vice-versa.19:31
sheelBut something needs to be changed.19:31
baumannsheel: Give me a minute to read this novel ;)19:31
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jgregorbaumann: +119:31
jungleboyjAhhhhh Spam bot!19:32
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rtheissheel: OSC is using --property not --metadata options today, are you looking to change that?19:32
sheelrtheis:  this may be changed in other components19:33
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baumannrtheis: Yes or at least talk about the whys19:33
sheelrtheis: this is just for discussion where to change19:33
baumannAbout why we use properties vs metadatas in osc*19:33
dtroyerOSC strives for consistency within itself.  we go to great length to hide differences in projects19:34
stevemardtroyer: apparently cinder uses both properties and metadata?19:34
stevemarthey also argue that all the docs/manuals/APIs all say "metadata"19:34
dtroyerthe decision to use properties was made almost 4 years ago, in a discussion with an admittedly small group, but it included over half of the PTL's at the time19:34
stevemarso we are the ones being inconsistent :)19:34
jgregorstevemar: That sounds right, but we use metadata alot more19:34
sheelstevemar:  :)19:35
sheelstevemar:  dtroyer rtheis what you guys think about changing property to metadata ?19:35
sheeljust a quick thought only19:35
rtheisnot a fan19:36
dtroyerI have no desire to make that large of a consistency break19:36
jgregorsheel: I am thinking we should actually change to property19:36
baumannjgregor: +119:36
sheeldtroyer:  ok, no issues from my side19:36
sheeldtroyer: I am open for reverse as well19:36
baumannIn the meeting yesterday, opinions seemed to be split about this in Cinder. But I personally think properties sounds way better than metadata :D19:37
sheeldtroyer: so, should we inform other projects about changing things vice-versa19:37
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jgregorAtleast switching metadata to property makes more sense to me. We definitely seem to be overusing metadata in Cinder as I see it.19:37
dtroyerbaumann: that was part of the consensus in the original discussion.  we thought it was clearer to users19:37
baumannsheel: Or we can at least keep the conversation open. I don't think we are going to be able to force either side19:37
sheelstevemar:  jungleboyj  rtheis ^^19:37
baumanndtroyer: Yeah putting myself in a user's shoes, properties makes way more sense19:38
sheelbaumann: this is just an idea for now19:38
baumannsheel: Exactly :)19:38
sheelbaumann: we have to start somewhere to go ahead... so taking views only for now19:38
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rtheisdoes cinder use both properties and metadata on the same resource19:38
stevemari think there are two issues here, where is DuncanT?!19:39
baumannstevemar: For real!19:39
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stevemari swear someone told me that cinder has both properties and metadata, as in they were distinct things19:39
sheelstevemar:  DuncanT  seems not present today for time being19:39
sheelstevemar:  ah, actually we were about to use this in one proposal19:39
dtroyerthere are two (at least) kinds of metadata on a volume, volume properties and properties copied from the image in case it came from glance19:39
dtroyeris this correct?? ^^^^^19:39
sheelstevemar:  for now, as far as  i know, we use metadata only19:39
stevemarwe could also... support --metadata very easily with an alias19:40
baumannstevemar: I'm pretty sure they are distinct things in cinder, but I'm not sure19:40
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jungleboyjdtroyer: Yes, I think that is correct.19:40
sheeldtroyer: user metadata and image metadata19:40
* dtroyer glares at stevemar19:40
baumanndtroyer: I think we should all just listen to stevemar... :D19:41
stevemardtroyer: hey it's possible, that's all i'm saying19:41
dtroyerha!  then we'd all be cheering for the Blue Jays19:41
stevemarwe're making a come back this year!19:41
jungleboyjBlue Jays.  :-)19:41
jungleboyjMy favorite bird.19:41
stevemarbut we *could*, the only hiccup would be the output (list/show)19:41
stevemarto keep the baseball theme going... it'll show we play ball with cinder :P19:42
dtroyerstevemar: why do we want to make things inconsistent?19:42
jgregorDefinitely an interesting option.19:42
* dtroyer dusts off his brushback pitch19:42
stevemarwe could suppress it in the help19:42
stevemarjust an alias19:43
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stevemarif people *really* like typing metadata, they still can19:43
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baumannstevemar: dtroyer: I don't want to make things worse for you guys. I don't know how everyone else thinks.19:43
dtroyerso if a user can't find it, why add it?  we do that for getting rid of things already in use19:43
stevemartrue true19:43
stevemarif someone is migrating from cinderclient to osc, they will have to make a lot of changes anyway19:44
stevemarvolume-type vs volume type19:44
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baumannBut I feel like making it consistent is more important than appeasing Cinder. (Don't tell anyone I said that)19:44
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sheelthis is on records :)19:44
jungleboyjbaumann: !?!19:44
baumannbaumann is just an alias19:44
jungleboyjbaumann: is actually jgiffith ?19:45
stevemardtroyer: maybe we need to step back and take a look at use cases / user stories.. who will be using OSC -- new folks and folks migrating from cinderclient19:45
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stevemarit only impacts one of those groups19:45
dtroyerstevemar: We did 9 UX study sessions last week.  we'll have some results soon.  doing a bunch with ops-types in Auston19:45
jgregorOverall though,  I do agree that keeping things consistent seems the better way to go19:45
dtroyerwe are getting feedback19:46
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stevemardtroyer: oh thats nice19:46
sheelwe are left with 14 more minutes19:46
dtroyerand the consistency is often mentioned, especially from AWS and project CLI users19:46
stevemarmaybe we don't make a decision this time around, wait for more data from UX feedback19:46
dtroyerright sheel, what next?19:46
jgregorstevemar: +119:46
sheeldtroyer: Name is not a necessary field in cinder, but is in openstackclient19:47
sheeldtroyer: one patch was proposed for some changes19:47
baumannI think only size is required in cinderclient19:47
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dtroyerI did that because I wanted … wait for it … consistency.  It isn't harmful from an operational standpoint19:47
dtroyerI can see where we might make that optional, but my purity brain cells are shaking19:48
dtroyeralso, using "" as a name works ;)19:48
dtroyerbut that is bad UX19:48
sheeldtroyer: agree on this19:48
baumanndtroyer: I don't personally see a harm in requiring a name. But this isn't my battle either. I don't remember who was worried about this from the Cinder team19:49
dtroyerin that review, rtheis is right… we'll want to test both cases19:49
dtroyerbaumann: that was basically my thinking.19:50
jgregordtroyer: So is Name a field that is required across multple commands in OSC?19:50
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sheeldtroyer:  will add test case for those soon19:50
dtroyerfor create commands, yes19:50
dtroyerit is the name of the resource that is being created19:50
sheelfor reference19:51
dtroyerthere have been a number of places where not having name and ID causes minor pain in using OpenStack APIs19:51
dtroyerat least you don't let the user specify ID ;)19:51
jgregordtroyer: Gotcha.19:51
* dtroyer cough flavors cough19:51
jgregordtroyer: Yea, I do not think it is a big deal either way19:52
stevemarbaumann: i think DuncanT was just highlighting differences19:52
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baumannstevemar: Yeah, I think you are right19:52
baumannThere wasn't any serious backlash from it as much as I remember.19:53
dtroyeri'd prefer to leave it.  if there are technical reasons it should change we can change it19:53
sheelOk, so for now we can target and discuss later on about other cases like volume create and other create commands19:53
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baumanndtroyer: Did that recent mailing list thread come to a consensus?19:53
dtroyerwe changed from verb-object to object-verb for tab-completion for example19:53
dtroyerbaumann: I think I killed that thread off, didn't see any replies19:54
baumanndtroyer: I noticed that too. You must be powerful19:54
dtroyer^^ not intentionally19:54
dtroyerI wish19:54
-openstackstatus- NOTICE: Any jobs which erroneously failed on missing traceroute packages should be safe to recheck now19:54
stevemardtroyer: maybe we just need to draw a line in the sand and say "expect differences, sorry"19:54
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dtroyercoming up on 5 minutes19:54
sheeldtroyer: 619:55
dtroyeranything else here?  I do have one review I want to point out yet19:55
stevemardo it now!19:55
sheelI think done....19:55
jgregordtroyer: Nope, think we have everything covered19:55
sheelbaumann: jgregor  anything else we have?19:55
baumannsheel: dtroyer: I think we are good for now19:55
dtroyer#topic reviews19:55
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dtroyerwe talked about this last week, and just after the meeting I realized we should have used —no-address-scope there, and in general use —no-NN rather than —clear-NN19:56
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dtroyerthere is only one use of —clear- in the wild atm19:57
stevemarwhich command is that?19:57
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rtheisyes,  router19:57
dtroyerrouter set and/or unset19:57
dtroyerone thought is that —clear makes sense when there are multiple things19:57
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dtroyerI think it is simpler to remember if everything just uses —no-19:57
rtheisrouter set [--route|--clear-routes]19:57
stevemari think --no- is better19:58
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stevemarless typing19:58
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rtheisdevref here captures using --no
dtroyerit's also a GNU standard, not that we would ever admit to that here19:59
dtroyerok, just wanted to highlight this since we left it different in last weeks' log19:59
stevemargood meeting19:59
dtroyerthanks everyone, we're out of time19:59
sheel#link      this is for volume transfer, I am waiting for approval on command signature -  refer line 84      -> #link
sheelok, lets close19:59
dtroyerand thanks for stopping by Cinder folks… if you have more questions you know where to find us19:59
sheelthanks :)20:00
dtroyervolume transfer ;)20:00
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"20:00
openstackMeeting ended Thu Mar 31 20:00:21 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)20:00
openstackMinutes (text):
baumanndtroyer: Thanks man :) Hope we chat more in the future!20:00
jgregordtroyer: Thanks for discussing this with us!20:00
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dtroyernp guys, anytime20:01
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* BassT lurking20:57
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mriedem#startmeeting nova21:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Mar 31 21:00:06 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is mriedem. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)"21:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova'21:00
mriedem#link agenda
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mriedemanyone around?21:00
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mriedemalright, getting started21:01
mriedem#topic release status21:01
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mriedem#info RC3 has been released:
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mriedemApr 4-8, Release week21:01
mriedem#info Final mitaka release tag should be pushed on Thursday 4/7:
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mriedem#help Looking out for release critical bugs, potential release blocker:
mriedemhowever, it has to be earth-shattering to make mitaka GA at this point21:02
mriedem#link New review focus list:
mriedem#link Draft Newton release schedule is up:
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mriedemwe'll be going over the nova-specific newton release schedule stuff on thursday at the summit21:02
mriedemlike spec freeze, non-priority FF, etc21:02
mriedemany questions on release?21:03
mriedem#topic bugs21:03
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mriedem#link check queue gate status
mriedemsomeone seems to have gone haywire in infra a couple of hours ago, i don't know if that's fixed yet21:03
mriedembut expect rechecks21:03
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mriedemotherwise no new gate issues that i'm aware of21:03
mriedem#link 3rd party CI status
mriedem#info mellanox sriov for macvtap CI is going to be running on nova now21:04
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mriedembut the same subset that the mellanox sriov direct CI runs on21:04
mriedemi've been prodding the mellanox and intel CI people lately about where we have coverage since all of the NFV code scares me21:05
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mriedemcritical bugs - there are none in the agenda21:05
* bauzas waves late21:05
mriedemanyone have anything for bugs?21:05
mriedem#topic reminders21:05
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mriedem#info Get specs re-proposed for Newton if they were approved but not implemented (completed) in Mitaka. This is the list we're using before the summit, everything else that's new is on freeze until after the summit.21:06
mriedem#help Volunteers for 1 week of bug skimming duty?21:06
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mriedem#link Volunteers21:06
mriedemmarkus was saying the bug team meetings have been pretty dead, it's mostly him and auggy21:06
mriedemi've been trying to attend the one that fits my tz21:06
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mriedemand i emailed some people in AP timezones asking them to get their devs involved, i.e. the same people that push for a big global bug smash around the 3rd milestone every release21:07
mriedemi'd like them to be involved earlier in the cycle rather than dump on us at the end21:07
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mriedem#topic stable branch status21:07
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mriedem#link Stable branch status:
mriedemno news here for nova21:08
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mriedemstable/mitaka is on lockdown until mitaka is released21:08
mriedem#topic stuck reviews21:08
*** openstack changes topic to "stuck reviews (Meeting topic: nova)"21:08
mriedemthere were none in the agenda, so does anyone have a stuck review they want to bring up?21:08
mriedemdisclaimer: Please note "stuck review" means a review where there is some disagreement that needs resolving. Its not for reviews that just haven't had attention, except for exceptional cases.21:08
mriedem#topic open discussion21:09
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: nova)"21:09
mriedem#link Austin Design Summit ideas:
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mriedem#info There is a draft schedule at the bottom of the newton-nova-summit-ideas etherpad. Some of the sessions might happen on the Tuesday cross-project day though, so Nova will probably hold off on formalizing the design summit session schedule until the week of 4/11.21:09
mriedem#info We're going to stop fixing latent bugs in the v2.0 API code since it's deprecated for removal. devref patch to follow on policy.21:09
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dansmithif we end in 15 seconds, world record for shortest meeting at 10 minutes21:09
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openstackMeeting ended Thu Mar 31 21:10:01 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)21:10
openstackMinutes (text):
dansmith[14:10:01]  <mriedem>#endmeetin21:10
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dansmithyou started at 6 seconds past21:10
mriedemseriously, did anyone have anything to bring up?21:10
dansmithso you win21:10
tonybmriedem: do better next time!21:10
bauzasmriedem: Frank Underwood thanks you21:10
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mriedemgiven not much for attendance today i'm assuming no one wanted to discuss anything21:11
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Qijinghierachical multi-tenancy project is active?21:12
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* edleafe wanders in late21:14
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* auggy too21:14
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edleafelooks like I missed all the funa and games21:15
edleafefun, even21:15
auggyi knowww21:15
auggymust have been a short one today :)21:15
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armaxkevinbenton, carl_baldwin, dougwig, HenryG, amotoki and anyone else interested in joining the neutron drivers in a few minutes21:58
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armaxjschwarz: go to bed!21:58
armaxI order you!21:58
jschwarzarmax, nah, I'm already here ;-)21:59
armaxjschwarz: follow an unsolicted advice, you need  good sleep21:59
armaxamuller, Sukhdev ping21:59
jschwarzarmax, I woke up late so I'm quite alright.. thanks for the advice though21:59
armaxfair enough21:59
Sukhdevarmax : sorry - back now21:59
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armaxIhar has kindly declined22:00
armax#startmeeting neutron_drivers22:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Mar 31 22:00:19 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is armax. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.22:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_drivers)"22:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_drivers'22:00
armaxwelcome to this exciting episode of neutron drivers, Newton Series22:00
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armaxyou ready for some action?22:01
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dougwigget off my lawn.22:01
SukhdevHenryG : :-)22:01
armaxwhose lawn? yours?22:01
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kevinbentonremember to register for the austin party!22:01
armaxwhose party?22:01
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armax#action kevinbenton to buy beer to anyone who register to this party22:02
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armaxok, let’s dive in, but before we do that, I’d like to share a few reminders22:03
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armaxReviewing neutron-specs changes is just as important as reviewing neutron ones22:03
armaxdon’t forget that as drivers members you’re the custiodian of the +A22:04
armaxwithout that, specs stall22:04
armaxand no-one wants that22:04
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armaxso please take the time out of your busy schedule to spare sometime going over the backlog and nudge contributors, review, approve and pending changes in that repo22:05
carl_baldwinNot a long list22:05
armaxthe backlog is rather small now, so it’s pretty easy to clear22:05
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dougwigoh boy, stackalytics /90 on that repo is grim.22:05
armaxcarl_baldwin: thanks you beat me to it22:05
armaxcarl_baldwin: there’s a link on the drivers page for your convenience22:05
kevinbentonwell i personally de-prioritized all spec reviews during the last part of the cycle to work on stability and bugs22:06
armaxkevinbenton: fair enough, but now it’s time to switch gear again22:06
armaxhence the reminder22:06
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armax#link needs some love22:06
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* amuller slotting spec/RFE reviews in to his calendar22:07
armax#link is close22:07
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armaxas for the latter, we’d need to nudge the submitter to respin22:07
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armaxbear in mind that we need to repurpose specs for Newton22:07
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armaxduring the next team meeting we’ll go over N-1/Mitaka backlog and remind people to nudge these to the right release22:08
armaxbut if you’re proactive (for the stuff you’re approver of) then, we might save a day or two22:09
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dougwigarmax: are we fast-tracking missed and backlog specs again, or do they need to go through this meeting?22:09
armaxthey can be fast-tracked22:09
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armaxno need to go back to the end of the queue, but it’d be good to understand if they need new owners/approvers22:09
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armaxhence I’d like to have a recorded conversation22:10
armaxdougwig: does that answer your question?22:10
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dougwigwell, no.22:11
dougwigyour answers are kind of contradictory.  :)22:11
armaxso are yours :)22:11
armaxlet me give you an example22:11
armaxthe spec is in the backlog22:11
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armaxit need to be resubmitted to Newton22:12
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armaxthat doesn’t require a full blown spec approval process22:12
armaxbut I’d like to understand if the original approvers/owners assigned in Mitaka intend to continue to work in Netwon22:12
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armaxif not, then before fast tracking we’d need to find new owners22:13
armaxotherwise what’s the point in fast tracking?22:13
armaxyou with me now?22:13
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dougwigso, simple +2/+A, but bring it up briefly in the meeting to verify owner/approver before the +A?22:13
dougwigwith you22:13
Sukhdevarmax : good explanation - reasonably clear now22:13
amotokisounds fair22:14
armaxdougwig, Sukhdev sorry I wasn’t crystal clear22:14
carl_baldwinarmax: speaking of vlan-aware-vms, does it currently have an active approver?22:14
armaxrossella_s was in charge of it22:14
armaxwe’d need to check with her if her priorities have changed22:14
armaxbence too, I haven’t seen him being super active on its patch22:15
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armaxlast spin of is as old as Feb 222:15
Sukhdevarmax : Ironic needs it as well - if no one comes forward, I will try to find a taker for this22:15
* armax hurts himself22:15
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armaxSukhdev: I am sure we have many people interested22:16
kevinbentonwhoever takes over this really needs to understand the l2 agent well for the implementation22:16
armaxbut no-one with the right endurance :)22:16
kevinbentonotherwise it will stall22:16
armaxkevinbenton: exactly22:16
armaxbut this isn’t just l2 agent alone22:16
armaxpitfalls may be all over the place22:16
dougwigand all of those people committed themselves.22:16
armaxanyhow we’ll discuss about this in the right venue22:16
armaxdougwig: to a mental institution?22:17
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* armax is unclear22:17
armaxI am funny aren’t I?22:17
* kevinbenton thinkgs dougwig is the active peanut gallery22:17
armaxif there’s nothing else, shall we dive in?22:17
HenryGI'd like to quickly revisit an RFE from last week: bug 156000322:17
openstackbug 1560003 in neutron "[RFE] Creating a new stadium project for BGP Dynamic Routing effort" [Wishlist,Triaged] - Assigned to vikram.choudhary (vikschw)22:18
armaxHenryG: you bully22:18
HenryGIt was pointed out to me that there is an exist repo, networking-bgpvpn22:18
armaxHenryG: go ahead22:18
armaxHenryG: aye22:18
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HenryGDo we want a different repo for BGP dynamic routing?22:18
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armaxit’s my udnerstanding that the two are not quite the same22:19
HenryGSome in the team indicated that they do want it separate22:19
mickeysThere are two different architectures. Many discussions in the past about the differences and the need for both, which has always resulted in both moving ahead so far22:19
dougwigi wouldn't think they are the same.22:19
kevinbentonbgpvpn is closer related to vpnaas than it is to the BGP dynamic routing that recently merged22:19
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armaxbut to be fair, I did make the point repeately that neutron-bgp is probably not appropriate as a name22:19
dougwigi assumed it'd be networking-bgp22:19
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HenryGThat's all I wanted cleared up22:20
armaxHenryG: actually I just reviewed both bug and patch from vikram22:20
armaxHenryG: thanks boos22:20
armaxlet’s keep an eye on this22:20
HenryGThe naming can be discussed in the bug22:20
dougwigthe ultimate bikeshed topic.22:21
armaxHenryG, dougwig: ack22:21
* salv-orlando did anyone say bikeshedding?22:21
armaxoh my, the painter awoke22:21
dougwigok, too many chocolate covered espresso beans.22:21
armaxsalv-orlando: go back to bed22:21
* kevinbenton awkward silence22:21
armaxbug 150749922:22
openstackbug 1507499 in neutron "[RFE] Centralized Management System for testing the environment" [Wishlist,Triaged]
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armaxthis is not going away easily22:22
kevinbentonseems to be disagreement on what people want from this22:22
armaxwe had a new related proposal on bug 156353822:22
openstackbug 1507499 in neutron "duplicate for #1563538 [RFE] Centralized Management System for testing the environment" [Wishlist,Triaged]
armaxwe punted to the mid-cycle, we’re close enough to the summit that we could punt there easily22:23
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dougwigextension or separate command-line tool, this could proceed in a separate repo, to see if it goes anywhere.22:23
kevinbentonyeah, maybe a session on what kind of debugging we want built in22:23
amulleror a friday session22:23
armaxI still think that we’d need to augument our API to report more sophisiticated health information on a resource basis22:24
armaxto start off22:24
armaxthen we can worry about how we provide the toolkit to implement remedy actions22:24
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salv-orlandoI think both armax and dougwig provided good arguments to close the discussion on this rfe22:25
bodenI added some notes to #link
amulleras long as we actually come to an agreement for this cycle I'm game22:25
armaxI’ll make the point on the bug report again, see if I can find proselytes22:25
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* salv-orlando on this node goes back to this sleep22:25
armaxamuller: follow me and I’ll show you the light22:25
armaxsalv-orlando: have a good one, we love you22:25
armaxbug 152071922:26
openstackbug 1520719 in neutron "[RFE] Use the new enginefacade from oslo_db" [Wishlist,Triaged] - Assigned to Ann Kamyshnikova (akamyshnikova)22:26
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armaxHenryG: I look at you to get this resolved22:26
HenryGApprove it and it shall be done22:26
armaxHenryG: I’d like to see a plan first22:26
armaxbut aye22:26
armaxlike what to expect in the course of the release22:27
armaxbut thanks for taking ownership22:27
armaxyou shall be rewarded22:27
armaxbug 153033122:27
openstackbug 1530331 in neutron "[RFE] [ipv6] Advertise tenant prefixes from router to outside" [Wishlist,Triaged]
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armaxshall we consider something within the scope?22:28
carl_baldwinIt would be a third way to get IPv6 routes back in to tenant networks.22:28
carl_baldwinIt could be the simplest way though.22:29
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haleybyes, if you could stuff a /128 in there22:29
carl_baldwinhaleyb: I wasn't even thinking about host routes yet.22:29
carl_baldwinhaleyb: That would take some more thinking.22:30
armaxto be honest, I’d rather choose a single way to address the specific use case22:30
haleyboh, the CVR doing this22:30
carl_baldwinThe thing is, I haven't heard much demand for this.22:31
carl_baldwinMaybe asking operators would be good.22:31
armaxcarl_baldwin, haleyb do I read that this needs more baking until it formalized into an actionable proposal?22:31
carl_baldwinarmax: I think so.22:31
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armaxcarl_baldwin: most likely we’ll have an operators sponspored session at the summit22:32
haleybyes, more baking22:32
armaxcarl_baldwin: let’s make sure we get the time to talk about this22:32
carl_baldwinarmax: ++22:32
armaxhaleyb: you can’t leave the cake in the oven unattended22:32
armaxit’ll burn!22:32
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armaxhaleyb: can I trust you and carl_baldwin will see through this?22:32
carl_baldwinarmax: set a timer.  ;)22:32
* haleyb is already hungry and that didn't help22:32
armaxhaleyb: but it’s gonna burn22:32
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armaxit’s not gonna taste good22:33
armaxbug 155263122:33
openstackbug 1552631 in neutron "[RFE] Bulk Floating IP allocation" [Wishlist,Triaged]
carl_baldwinarmax: I'll take it.22:33
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armaxcarl_baldwin: don’t oversubscribe22:33
armaxI hear haleyb is a slacker22:33
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* armax spreads false rumors22:33
haleybi can help too, only one RFE on my plate22:33
dougwighonestly, i think this is a horizon rfe, and not appropriate for neutron api22:33
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* carl_baldwin passes it on to haleyb22:33
carl_baldwinI added one comment to this one about contiguous fip allocations.22:34
armaxcarl_baldwin: ack22:34
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carl_baldwinBut, that might be a different request altogether.22:34
armaxtalking about FIPs22:34
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armaxand contiguous space22:35
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armaxI wonder if we22:35
armaxwill end up causing users to stamped on each other22:35
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armaxI appreciate some customers may indeed ask for this, but at the same time, I think it’s right to say no if that means taking the rope away from users22:36
carl_baldwinarmax: In what way?22:36
armaxif you have concurrent requests asking for the same contiguous space22:36
dougwigif there's a contiguous fip rfe, we should deal with that separately.  if this is really just the horizon use case, the ui should be driving the api.22:37
armaxdougwig: fair point22:37
carl_baldwindougwig: +1 I fear I've expanded the scope of this rfe with my comment.22:37
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armaxcarl_baldwin: but that’s an important aspect nonetheless22:37
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armaxamotoki: what do you reckon?22:38
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armaxyou’re the resident Horizon SME22:38
amotokiI think we call multiple APIs as they want.22:38
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armaxmeaning we can provide a client side binding that accepts # of FIPs22:38
amotokiif someone wants 2 FIPs in GUI, it is more tough compared to running CLI two times...22:38
armaxand return a list of FIPs?22:39
haleybarmax: i just added a comment there as well, i'm remembering a customer wanting say a /28 contiguous, so they had one SG rule.  I think they were using the IPs on their end as well so it impacted their VPN config22:39
dougwigamotoki: django does two api calls instead of one, in that case, i think, right?22:39
amotokithere are two caniddate to implement it. horizon API wrappers or neutron client library.22:39
amotokidougwig: yes22:39
armaxhaleyb: ok22:39
armaxamotoki: I can see value in having the client library binding22:40
haleybwe wrote a "trawler" to scoop up all the blocks and keep them just for them22:40
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dougwigarmax: you hate orchestration, but you're in favor of a binding that a simple for loop can handle?22:40
amotokiarmax: agree to some extent.22:40
armaxdougwig I do hate orchestration server side22:41
amotokiif we support in in the client library, how about openstacksdk side? do we need to support it in openstacksdk?22:41
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armaxdougwig: but not all orchestration22:41
armaxif I can’t live without22:41
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dougwigi'm opposed to an api change, mildly opposed to a client orchestration, but will lose sleep over neither.22:41
armaxdougwig: good, then we’re on the same page22:42
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armaxbug 155268022:42
openstackbug 1552680 in neutron "[RFE] Add support for DLM" [Wishlist,Triaged] - Assigned to John Schwarz (jschwarz)22:42
armaxsee if you lose sleep over this one22:42
* jschwarz ^_^22:42
dougwigthis could either be awesome or a disastrous nightmare of epic proportions.  i don't think it has a middle ground.22:43
armaxI wonder if this an opportunity for us to take and experiment with this for ‘new’ stuff and leave stuff we built up until now alone22:44
kevinbentonwithout adopting it in every place that touches an object protected by a lock, it's not buying us much22:44
jschwarzif it does end up being a disastrous nightmare as dougwig says, we can easily revert back22:44
armaxat least until we’ve given ourselves enough time to master the space22:44
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jschwarzI agree with kevinbenton - the key is identifying specific places that can benefit from it greatly.22:45
armaxso I wodner if we can make a recommendation that for new work items this be considered22:45
armaxpotentially overlapping with the ovo work that ihar, rossella et al are working on22:46
armaxnot sure if I am making any sense22:46
amullerarmax: you want to lock an object every time it's mutated, at the OVO layer?22:46
armaxI’ll need to give some more thought22:46
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armaxamuller: I am saying that I am not sure I am prepered to warrant refactoring to adopt DLM22:47
amullerkevinbenton: Did you give any thought to locking at what low of a layer vs locking at higher layers like jschwarz's PoC?22:47
amullerat that*22:47
dougwigaside from our ability to make use of this well, is tooz stable enough to wrap our stuff around?22:48
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armaxbut I am definitely open to seeing how this may play out in the context of a new effort22:48
amotokiwe have the real first need in L3 area? if so, we can try PoC without overlapping efforts22:48
amullerjschwarz: are you aware of any users of tooz's DLM API?22:48
kevinbentonamuller: locking that low won't help when it's related objects (e.g. router and it's HA network)22:48
amullerkevinbenton: aye22:48
jschwarzamuller, dougwig, ceilometer uses it22:48
amullerjschwarz: the locking API or grouping API?22:49
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jschwarzamuller, grouping iirc22:49
amullerso we'd probably be adding tooz and contributing to it in parallel22:50
armaxlet’s keep brainstorming on this one22:50
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amullerdougwig: So I don't know if anyone can make that determination at this point22:51
armaxbug 155486922:51
openstackbug 1554869 in neutron "[RFE] Make API errors conform to API working group schema" [Wishlist,Triaged] - Assigned to xiexs (xiexs)22:51
jschwarzdougwig, I think that part of the stability of tooz is the stability of the backend we choose22:51
dougwigthat means the answer is unknown, so no.  i personally don't want to risk neutron's adoption momentum for something like that, and if we do it, i'd want to see it behind a config/enable toggle.22:51
dougwigare these api error changes additive, or will we be breaking backwards compat to switch?22:52
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armaxdougwig: taht’s what I am questioning too22:53
armaxfrom the specs proposal it looks like they are non bw compat22:53
armaxhas anyone given this any thought?22:54
dougwigjust my opinion, but i'm in favor of applying those standards to additions and any new v3 api, but not to potentially breaking users.22:54
armaxyes, but before doing that we’d nee to see what that v3 api looks like and who is interested in working on one22:55
amotokiv3 or versioned API22:55
dougwig"next major rev, if", then.  :)22:55
armaxamotoki: rather the latter I’d say, but a bump needs to happen nonetheless22:55
armaxbug 155729022:56
openstackbug 1557290 in neutron "[RFE]DVR FIP agent gateway does not pass traffic directed at fixed IP" [Wishlist,Triaged]
armaxI agree with carl_baldwin that this should be treated as a regular bug22:56
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armaxcarl_baldwin: do you see many architectural changes involved?22:57
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carl_baldwinarmax: I don't think so.22:57
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armaxgood to know22:57
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armaxbug 155881222:57
openstackbug 1558812 in neutron "[RFE] Enable adoption of an existing subnet into a subnetpool" [Wishlist,Triaged]
armaxthis is interesting, and I think it makes sense, how that is going to end materializing I am not quite sure, so I’d advice us to iterate on a spec22:58
dougwiggoes against pets vs cattle, but i guess this is the real world we're living in.22:58
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carl_baldwinMy biggest concern here is how to make an API that ensures consistency on a network.22:58
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armaxperhaps iterating on a spec may help us shed some lights on these types of issues22:59
carl_baldwindougwig: Imagine an external network with lots of things on it.  You want to tear them all down?  You can't kill your whole herd.22:59
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armaxtoo bad we had one bug left from the lot22:59
armaxnot sure if we can cover it in the last few seconds left22:59
armaxbug 156306922:59
openstackbug 1563069 in neutron "[RFE] Centralize Configuration Options" [Wishlist,Triaged]
armaxI see no point in rushing on this, but right now I have a kneejerk reaction to say ‘go away'23:00
armaxand on that note23:00
armaxthank you all23:00
dougwigcarl_baldwin: there's a place for herds of pets.23:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"23:00
openstackMeeting ended Thu Mar 31 23:00:24 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)23:00
openstackMinutes (text):
armaxthoughts? we may still have the stage23:01
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* carl_baldwin gotta run. Hard stope23:01
dougwigarmax: a single config file would be *sweet* from a deployer perspective. but the current mechanism is not that onerous.23:02
kevinbentondougwig: but a deployer can already just use one config file if they want23:02
kevinbentondougwig: neutron agents/servers don't know anything about which files were used23:02
dougwigneutron.conf, ml2_conf.ini; i think it's at least two.23:02
kevinbentonoslo config bundles all of that up23:02
kevinbentondougwig: but you don't need those23:02
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kevinbentonall of those options can be in one file23:03
kevinbentonfrom neutron's perspective it just gets a config object which is all of those options parsed23:03
dougwigoh, nice.  though i'm not going to spend one second changing my hypervisor deploy strategy, since it involves a tarball of gunk anyway.23:03
kevinbentondougwig: one advantage of having two files is that you can have global defaults in one, and then overrides in the second one23:04
dougwiga dubious use of the word 'advantage'.23:04
kevinbentondougwig: so if you want to turn on debug for one thing, you put the debug flag in that one config and it doesn't impact others23:04
dougwigok, that's fair.23:04
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kevinbentonbut yeah, which config files are used are basically up to deployers/packagers23:04
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amullerThat RFE is not about the conf files though23:05
kevinbentonamuller: right23:05
amullerit's about the way we register opts in the code23:05
amullerspecifically the location of the opts23:05
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kevinbentonthis RFE is purely about how they are handled internally23:05
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amullerit's quite simple, it's just having the opts declared in one place instead of scattered all over23:05
dougwighow is that not just re-arranging deck chairs?23:05
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amullerit's just moving stuff in the code from one place to the other23:05
amullerdougwig: it is23:05
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amullerdougwig: ... and some extra stuff, like have a consistent template to doc opts23:05
dougwigamuller: is that a problem for us?23:06
amullerdougwig: I can't say I fully understand the advantage of that proposal23:06
amullerdougwig: but it's not a problem I don't think23:06
amullerjust kinda meh23:06
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amotokihonestly i'd like to see  option definitions match conf files.23:07
amulleramotoki: I'm not sure that distros and installers use conf files consistently23:07
dougwigwell, it's not a bad proposal, but if i can choose to spend time on that or (adding a new networking feature or beefing up testing), i'll pick the latter any day.23:07
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amullerdougwig: I'm in the same boat23:08
amotokiamuller: understand. as an operator, it is not easy to know which options affect which process (server or agents or all)23:08
amullerthough we have generated conf files23:09
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