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| yamamot__ | hi | 07:05 |
|---|---|---|
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| yamamot__ | #startmeeting networking_midonet | 07:06 |
| yamamot__ | #startmeeting networking_midonet | 07:06 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 12 07:06:19 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is yamamot__. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 07:06 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 07:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:06 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking_midonet' | 07:06 |
| yamamot__ | #topic Agenda | 07:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:07 | |
| yamamot__ | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NetworkingMidoNet | 07:07 |
| yamamot__ | #topic Announcements | 07:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:08 | |
| yamamot__ | Mitaka is out | 07:08 |
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| yamamot__ | #topic Bugs | 07:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:08 | |
| yamamot__ | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/networking-midonet/ | 07:09 |
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| yamamot__ | nothing important and new | 07:10 |
| yamamot__ | i'll continue bug deputy | 07:10 |
| yamamot__ | #topic Open Discussion | 07:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:10 | |
| yamamot__ | i don't have anything | 07:10 |
| * yamamot__ waiting for a few mins | 07:10 | |
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| yamamot__ | i guess i've done | 07:14 |
| yamamot__ | bye! | 07:14 |
| yamamot__ | #endmeeting | 07:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 07:14 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 12 07:14:23 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 07:14 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-04-12-07.06.html | 07:14 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-04-12-07.06.txt | 07:14 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-04-12-07.06.log.html | 07:14 |
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| anteaya | #startmeeting third-party | 08:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 12 08:00:34 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 08:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 08:00 |
| anteaya | hello | 08:00 |
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| lennyb | Hi | 08:01 |
| anteaya | hello lennyb | 08:01 |
| anteaya | how are you? | 08:01 |
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| lennyb | ok, thanks, how are you? | 08:02 |
| anteaya | good thanks | 08:02 |
| anteaya | I missed yesterday's meeting | 08:02 |
| anteaya | I was so focused on the gerrit server move that I missed it | 08:02 |
| anteaya | I'm sorry | 08:02 |
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| anteaya | #info http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-April/092026.html | 08:04 |
| anteaya | so we moved gerrit yesterday | 08:04 |
| anteaya | lennyb: have you seen any changes with your third party ci interations? | 08:04 |
| lennyb | not really. | 08:04 |
| anteaya | awesome thank you | 08:06 |
| anteaya | do let us know if you see anything unusual | 08:06 |
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| anteaya | that was all I had for today | 08:06 |
| anteaya | have you anything you would like to discuss? | 08:07 |
| lennyb | no. | 08:07 |
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| anteaya | wonderful | 08:08 |
| anteaya | will you be at summit? | 08:08 |
| lennyb | unfortunately no. | 08:09 |
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| anteaya | :( | 08:09 |
| anteaya | that is a shame | 08:09 |
| anteaya | I enjoy spending time with you | 08:09 |
| lennyb | sorry. probably next time | 08:09 |
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| anteaya | I hope so | 08:10 |
| anteaya | next time is in spain | 08:10 |
| anteaya | should be easier for you? | 08:10 |
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| lennyb | I hope so. | 08:11 |
| anteaya | :) | 08:12 |
| anteaya | lennyb: can you help me review this patch? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/304384/1/meetings/third-party-meeting.yaml | 08:12 |
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| anteaya | this is the patch to skip meetings and in the first edition I had all the skip dates under one day rather than split between monday and tuesday | 08:13 |
| * lennyb checking | 08:13 | |
| anteaya | thank you | 08:15 |
| lennyb | I am missing time zone on this patch, unless this is the common format | 08:18 |
| anteaya | lennyb: the current code is used to created this | 08:18 |
| anteaya | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/#Third_Party_Meeting | 08:19 |
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| lennyb | isee | 08:19 |
| anteaya | so the code doesn't have the 'UTC' designation that is true, but the result does | 08:19 |
| anteaya | lennyb: good eye | 08:19 |
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| anteaya | thanks lennyb | 08:22 |
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| anteaya | that's all I had for today | 08:22 |
| anteaya | well that and a reminder that meetings during summit week are skipped | 08:22 |
| anteaya | which is what that patch addresses | 08:23 |
| anteaya | so hopefully once this merges that will be clearly communicated at http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/#Third_Party_Meeting | 08:23 |
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| anteaya | any objection to me closing the meeting? | 08:25 |
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| lennyb | no. see you next time | 08:25 |
| anteaya | thanks lennyb | 08:25 |
| anteaya | I appreciate you being here | 08:25 |
| anteaya | enjoy the rest of your day | 08:25 |
| anteaya | see you next week | 08:26 |
| anteaya | #endmeeting | 08:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 08:26 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 12 08:26:06 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 08:26 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-04-12-08.00.html | 08:26 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-04-12-08.00.txt | 08:26 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-04-12-08.00.log.html | 08:26 |
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| Qiming | #startmeeting senlin | 13:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 12 13:00:05 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'senlin' | 13:00 |
| Qiming | hello guys | 13:00 |
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| elynn | Hi! | 13:00 |
| yanyanhu | hi | 13:00 |
| cznewt | hi | 13:00 |
| Qiming | please review agenda and see if you have things to add: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda | 13:00 |
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| yanyanhu | very slow to open this link... | 13:01 |
| cschulz_ | hi | 13:01 |
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| zzxwill | Hello. | 13:01 |
| Qiming | haiwei, just on time | 13:01 |
| haiwei | yes | 13:01 |
| haiwei | ? | 13:01 |
| Qiming | #topic container clustering progress | 13:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "container clustering progress (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:02 | |
| Qiming | any new progress to share? | 13:02 |
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| haiwei | I implemented most the needed functions, and thinking about auto-scaling things | 13:02 |
| Qiming | I have read your slides, but it would be better to share with everyone where we are in this thread | 13:02 |
| R_lixh | hi | 13:03 |
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| haiwei | also started to write the ppt, only some guidelines | 13:03 |
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| haiwei | about the picture you wanted, what about the one I sent it to you, Qiming | 13:03 |
| haiwei | not sure your idea about it | 13:04 |
| Qiming | they look good | 13:04 |
| Qiming | need to articulate our points in the talk | 13:04 |
| haiwei | I think we should finish all ppt materials within this week | 13:04 |
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| Qiming | it would be great if you (and everyone else who are interested in this) can check the latest discussion on dev mailinglist | 13:04 |
| Qiming | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-April/091947.html | 13:04 |
| haiwei | should we decide the division? | 13:04 |
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| Qiming | I'll start working on a storyline and share with you, we may need several conf call discussions | 13:06 |
| haiwei | i will read it | 13:06 |
| yanyanhu | interesting thread | 13:06 |
| haiwei | ok | 13:06 |
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| Qiming | As always, the community is still split on the right direction to go, that is the reason for the discussion | 13:06 |
| Qiming | there are proponents, there are strong opponents | 13:06 |
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| Qiming | it is a good discussion anyway | 13:07 |
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| yanyanhu | sure, this is a community not a company :) | 13:07 |
| yanyanhu | even in a company, it happened sometimes... | 13:08 |
| Qiming | right, that is why it is called open community and why we like it, :) | 13:08 |
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| yanyanhu | yep :P | 13:08 |
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| Qiming | autoscaling prototype would be nice, but we really need a story line, why are we doing this, how are we planning to do it ... so on and so forth | 13:09 |
| haiwei | agree | 13:09 |
| Qiming | anyway, will send you a draft tomorrow | 13:09 |
| haiwei | thanks | 13:09 |
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| Qiming | #topic API schema check | 13:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "API schema check (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:10 | |
| Qiming | after working on the API micro-versioning stuff, I was reviewing a api-wg spec about strictly checking REST API requests | 13:10 |
| haiwei | this topic is interesting | 13:10 |
| Qiming | not just the requested URI, but also the payload, e.g. the attributes you can specify when creating a resource | 13:11 |
| Qiming | We do have some ad-hoc checkings in the API layer, and I have added a TODO items in the TODO.rst file | 13:11 |
| Qiming | haiwei suggested we go API schema checking | 13:11 |
| Qiming | so I went digging nova api and keystone api | 13:12 |
| haiwei | I have some experiences with Nova API schema | 13:12 |
| Qiming | this kind of a feature is not a new wheel to invent | 13:12 |
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| yanyanhu | ah, I remember the issue we met before: neutron will complain if an unrecoginized attr is provided in api request body | 13:13 |
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| Qiming | just need to check in some basic framework then gradually fill in the schemas for each API | 13:13 |
| haiwei | yes, yanyanhu | 13:13 |
| yanyanhu | finally caused the path_arg problem on sdk side | 13:13 |
| Qiming | then finally turn it on | 13:13 |
| Qiming | neutron is doing the right thing, according to the approved api-wg spec | 13:13 |
| yanyanhu | yes | 13:14 |
| Qiming | at API layer, a silent failure sometimes is poisonous | 13:14 |
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| yanyanhu | agree. Or there should be an explicit description in API doc | 13:14 |
| Qiming | haiwei, do you have suggestions how we start this? | 13:15 |
| yanyanhu | to say unroconized attr will not fail the API request | 13:15 |
| Qiming | api schema check is much stricter than that | 13:15 |
| yanyanhu | s/unroconized/unrecognized | 13:15 |
| haiwei | we can refer to what is done in Nova, if we want to do this, we should list all the APIs, and do one by one | 13:15 |
| Qiming | people are using it to check data types, field length .. | 13:16 |
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| yanyanhu | Qiming, it includes type verification? | 13:16 |
| yanyanhu | oh | 13:16 |
| Qiming | the nova one is pretty complex, because it is somehow intermingled with api extensions | 13:16 |
| haiwei | for every API, every parameter, check the type/length and anything necessary | 13:16 |
| cschulz_ | should this be a topic for Newton release? | 13:17 |
| Qiming | add a decorator, say what you want to check, implement the checker | 13:17 |
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| cschulz_ | Sounds like a lot of work. | 13:17 |
| Qiming | cschulz_, doesn't sound a controversial topic | 13:17 |
| Qiming | it is .... just labor ... :) | 13:17 |
| haiwei | we can write a small test case use the jsonschema to see what happens if something guilty is passed | 13:17 |
| yanyanhu | sounds good | 13:17 |
| Qiming | we have a lot of fields to catch up | 13:17 |
| haiwei | yes, need much patience, Qiming | 13:18 |
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| Qiming | so far, we are doing pretty good, :) | 13:18 |
| Qiming | there are many projects lacking this | 13:18 |
| haiwei | yes | 13:18 |
| Qiming | we just focus on doing the right thing and the get the thing done | 13:19 |
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| Qiming | if you are experienced on this, haiwei, can you help lay out a roadmap? | 13:19 |
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| Qiming | what are the initial frameworks we need? | 13:19 |
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| haiwei | many existing checks in the api layer will be needless, if we import this schema | 13:20 |
| Qiming | then everyone can help fill in the gaps for individual api requests | 13:20 |
| haiwei | ok, Qiming | 13:20 |
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| Qiming | great! | 13:20 |
| Qiming | here is the keystone specs for reference: https://specs.openstack.org/openstack/keystone-specs/specs/juno/keystone-api-validation.html | 13:21 |
| haiwei | thanks | 13:22 |
| cschulz_ | I'll be away for a short time | 13:22 |
| Qiming | okay, cschulz_ | 13:22 |
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| Qiming | I also checked different wsgi frameworks, trying to find a better alternative | 13:22 |
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| Qiming | this has been discussed in the community again and again | 13:23 |
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| haiwei | yes, from grizzly cycle | 13:23 |
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| Qiming | the hope is that there could be some framework having builtin support to validation, documentation, middleware, ... | 13:23 |
| Qiming | that would be a huge reengineering | 13:24 |
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| Qiming | so .. let's keep the scope narrowed | 13:25 |
| Qiming | moving on | 13:25 |
| cschulz_ | I'm back | 13:25 |
| Qiming | #topic newton work items | 13:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "newton work items (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:25 | |
| Qiming | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-newton-workitems | 13:25 |
| Qiming | scalability experience sharing, haven't confirmed with suzhou guys on a conf call | 13:26 |
| Qiming | will try again | 13:27 |
| Qiming | tempest testing | 13:27 |
| yanyanhu | will they go to summit as well? | 13:27 |
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| Qiming | yes, they have topics accepted as well | 13:27 |
| yanyanhu | nice | 13:27 |
| R_lixh | nice | 13:27 |
| Qiming | elynn ? | 13:27 |
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| elynn | yes | 13:27 |
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| yanyanhu | can make further discussion with them in design session | 13:28 |
| elynn | Not much updated yet | 13:28 |
| Qiming | okay | 13:28 |
| yanyanhu | I think the basic framework looks good now | 13:28 |
| Qiming | stress testing | 13:28 |
| elynn | waiting for the patch to rename tempest folder to get merged. | 13:28 |
| yanyanhu | based on our discussion | 13:28 |
| yanyanhu | stress test: now we are focusing on rally | 13:28 |
| Qiming | agree, need some reviews | 13:29 |
| yanyanhu | hope to leverage it to support senlin benchmarking | 13:29 |
| Qiming | So it is not stress test, to be accurate? | 13:29 |
| yanyanhu | I think it is a good choice for this purpose | 13:29 |
| yanyanhu | yes, should be performance test | 13:29 |
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| yanyanhu | stress test should be covered by tempest? | 13:29 |
| yanyanhu | per our discussion, elynn ? | 13:29 |
| elynn | yes | 13:29 |
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| elynn | rally will do benchmark | 13:30 |
| yanyanhu | ok, so we have a concensus about how to organize senlin's test cases | 13:30 |
| elynn | tempest for API, scenerio, stress tests. | 13:30 |
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| Qiming | okay | 13:30 |
| yanyanhu | including api, scenario, benchmark, and maybe stress | 13:30 |
| Qiming | when we have a basic framework landed, guys can start fill it with more test cases | 13:31 |
| elynn | We should discuss what stress tests we are going to support. | 13:31 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes | 13:31 |
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| yanyanhu | About rally support for senlin, the first patch to add basic support looks good now. Need to wait rally team's decision | 13:32 |
| yanyanhu | link is in the etherpad, I still haven't open that page... | 13:32 |
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| Qiming | if we want to try that, we have to do a git review -d? | 13:32 |
| yanyanhu | -d? | 13:33 |
| Qiming | maybe we should reach out to that team and ask for opinions | 13:33 |
| Qiming | git review -d is used for check out a specific patch for review locally | 13:33 |
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| elynn | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/298109/11 | 13:33 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, oh. I ususally used the link provided in gerrit web UI :) | 13:33 |
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| elynn | This is the one for rally, I think. | 13:34 |
| yanyanhu | thank, elynn | 13:34 |
| yanyanhu | it is | 13:34 |
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| Qiming | maybe we should try ping the rally cores on IRC | 13:35 |
| yanyanhu | we can start work on senlin plugins I think | 13:35 |
| yanyanhu | although they depends on that patch | 13:35 |
| Qiming | it has been hanging there for over a week now, no reviews | 13:35 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes | 13:35 |
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| yanyanhu | just not sure how is the test going | 13:36 |
| Qiming | if that is the only blocker, remove it, and move on | 13:36 |
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| yanyanhu | I see | 13:36 |
| Qiming | then find their IRC channel, ask questions, :) | 13:36 |
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| yanyanhu | yes, I have. But I guess the time difference blocks the msg :) | 13:36 |
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| yanyanhu | anyway, will try to reach them | 13:37 |
| Qiming | cool | 13:37 |
| Qiming | time zone is never a critical issue | 13:37 |
| yanyanhu | oh, BTW, this patch works now | 13:37 |
| yanyanhu | https://review.openstack.org/303923 | 13:37 |
| yanyanhu | it | 13:37 |
| Qiming | health management, R_lixh ? | 13:38 |
| yanyanhu | it's a plugin for senlin tempest test | 13:38 |
| R_lixh | I just start to looking at the fencing agent | 13:38 |
| Qiming | okay, I was reviewing that, but distracted again today | 13:38 |
| R_lixh | and existing work done | 13:38 |
| R_lixh | on evacuation | 13:38 |
| R_lixh | trying to set up the project | 13:39 |
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| R_lixh | still trying to put the story together | 13:39 |
| R_lixh | then see what we can do in this feild | 13:39 |
| Qiming | okay, if you have some rough ideas, you can put them into the etherpad | 13:39 |
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| R_lixh | ok | 13:39 |
| Qiming | ping the team when you have new inputs there, :) | 13:40 |
| Qiming | documentation | 13:40 |
| R_lixh | Yes, I am thinking to monitor their IRC | 13:40 |
| Qiming | I have just started some work on this | 13:40 |
| Qiming | a tutorial on wiki is not a good idea -- difficult to maintain | 13:41 |
| Qiming | so I'm starting a new subdir in senlin doc tree | 13:41 |
| Qiming | the existing user doc will be used as a reference | 13:41 |
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| Qiming | there will be many links from the tutorial saying: for full documentation on ..., see .... | 13:42 |
| yanyanhu | is that necessary to put the tutorial into readthedocs? | 13:42 |
| Qiming | readthedocs is not openstack | 13:42 |
| R_lixh | agree | 13:42 |
| Qiming | I'm not sure we can publish docs directly to readthedocs | 13:43 |
| yanyanhu | yes, just think maybe it's a public place to hold the tutorial | 13:43 |
| Qiming | if the tutorial goes online in official openstack docs site | 13:43 |
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| Qiming | we can just add a link from the wiki | 13:43 |
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| yanyanhu | that will be the best | 13:43 |
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| Qiming | btw, xinhui's patch on auto-scaling tutorial will be merged into this tutorial as a sub-section | 13:44 |
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| Qiming | so I'm deleting line 29 on the etherpad | 13:44 |
| yanyanhu | ok | 13:45 |
| Qiming | the template used is also proposed to heat-templates project | 13:45 |
| Qiming | so the next item is done also | 13:45 |
| Qiming | event log generation bug has been fixed, finally | 13:46 |
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| Qiming | haiwei, do we have some place to check in your strawman code? | 13:46 |
| Qiming | I mean the container support? | 13:47 |
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| haiwei | I did it locally | 13:47 |
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| Qiming | we can find some place on github | 13:47 |
| Qiming | I can checkin my work there | 13:47 |
| haiwei | shall I make a patch ? | 13:47 |
| yanyanhu | or just push a patch to gerrit? | 13:47 |
| yanyanhu | just mark it as WIP | 13:48 |
| Qiming | not sure if the whole thing will be killed soon, yanyanhu | 13:48 |
| yanyanhu | ok | 13:48 |
| haiwei | anyway, we can abandon the patch | 13:48 |
| Qiming | I was also checking the way to run containers using nova with libvirt-lxc, lxd ... | 13:49 |
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| Qiming | really not sure we will support them all | 13:49 |
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| Qiming | last item, semi-autoscaling and zaqar support | 13:50 |
| Qiming | anything to share, cschulz_ ? | 13:50 |
| cschulz_ | Not much progress to report. | 13:50 |
| Qiming | okay | 13:50 |
| cschulz_ | Got caught up on other things last week. | 13:50 |
| cschulz_ | BTW are you in US now? | 13:51 |
| Qiming | speaking of a scaling request that may and may not lead to real actions | 13:51 |
| Qiming | not yet, cschulz_ | 13:51 |
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| Qiming | I'm thinking if we can add an option to the resize request | 13:51 |
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| yanyanhu | for? | 13:52 |
| Qiming | saying that this request is a "soft" one | 13:52 |
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| cschulz_ | What does 'soft' mean? | 13:52 |
| cschulz_ | How do you envision it would be handled? | 13:52 |
| Qiming | it may get executed, it may be not | 13:52 |
| cschulz_ | How is the decision made? | 13:53 |
| yanyanhu | hmm, if not, why just rejecting the request | 13:53 |
| Qiming | when receiving such a request, we can check if there are some approvals needed before translating that request to a real action | 13:53 |
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| yanyanhu | why not | 13:53 |
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| Qiming | yanyanhu, it involves some approval processs sometimes | 13:53 |
| yanyanhu | I guess we can achieve that goal in scaling policy? | 13:53 |
| elynn | sounds like an approval policy. | 13:54 |
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| Qiming | senlin doesn't know what to do actually | 13:54 |
| cschulz_ | One issue is that just the request may cause a request for approval | 13:54 |
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| cschulz_ | Yes elynn | 13:54 |
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| Qiming | it is a little bit too late if we handle it in scaling policy, because the cluster is locked, we cannot lock it for a infinite time | 13:55 |
| cschulz_ | Did some work on this previous to Zaqar | 13:55 |
| yanyanhu | a new policy is better way to support approval process IMHO :) | 13:55 |
| Qiming | today, all policis are checked with clusters already locked, that is the issue | 13:55 |
| cschulz_ | Am now looking into Zaqar as the messaging mechanism to handle request and response. | 13:55 |
| Qiming | cool, cschulz_ | 13:55 |
| Qiming | Zaqar PTL, Fei Long Wang was an ex-ibmer | 13:56 |
| cschulz_ | Yes the locking is a real issue | 13:56 |
| cschulz_ | Approval response could be a long time in coming | 13:56 |
| elynn | That would be a hook that we provide to handle request. | 13:56 |
| yanyanhu | if so, all request should support it | 13:57 |
| Qiming | unless we say... okay, we will break the policy checking logic | 13:57 |
| yanyanhu | if it is really that generic | 13:57 |
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| Qiming | so it doesn't look like a REAL request to senlin | 13:57 |
| Qiming | it is just a tentative one | 13:57 |
| yanyanhu | yes | 13:57 |
| cschulz_ | It all depends on how much you want to build into Senlin as opposed to having all the decision mechanism outside. | 13:57 |
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| Qiming | that is the reason why I was thinking of adding a parameter to the request | 13:58 |
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| yanyanhu | just don't want to break the design logic of scaling request | 13:58 |
| Qiming | yes, cschulz_, it is a trade-off | 13:58 |
| cschulz_ | Ah, I think I see | 13:58 |
| yanyanhu | existing logic of action, policy | 13:59 |
| Qiming | right, yanyanhu, but the request is a real one | 13:59 |
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| Qiming | we need to figure out a way to get it supported | 13:59 |
| yanyanhu | yes | 13:59 |
| Qiming | somehow | 13:59 |
| yanyanhu | need some discussion here | 13:59 |
| cschulz_ | If you have a autoscale solution, fully closed loop, then you might need a callout mechanism for approval in some cases. | 13:59 |
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| Qiming | time's up, let's keep brain storming on this | 13:59 |
| Qiming | thank you all, guys, talk to you next week | 13:59 |
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| yanyanhu | thanks | 13:59 |
| cschulz_ | Yes Thanks for the thoughts | 13:59 |
| * regXboi looks at the clock and finds a corner | 13:59 | |
| haiwei | bye | 14:00 |
| Qiming | #endmeeting | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:00 | |
| cschulz_ | bye | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 12 14:00:06 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:00 |
| *** haiwei has quit IRC | 14:00 | |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-04-12-13.00.html | 14:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-04-12-13.00.txt | 14:00 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-04-12-13.00.log.html | 14:00 |
| * mestery sits in the corner with regXboi | 14:00 | |
| ajo | hi mestery :) | 14:00 |
| ajo | hi regXboi | 14:00 |
| mestery | ajo: Howdy :) | 14:00 |
| ajo | :) | 14:00 |
| regXboi | o/ | 14:00 |
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| annp | Hi | 14:00 |
| amuller | hiya | 14:00 |
| blogan | hola | 14:00 |
| hichihara | hi | 14:00 |
| jlibosva | hi | 14:00 |
| hoangcx | hi | 14:00 |
| akamyshnikova | hi | 14:00 |
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| haleyb | hi | 14:00 |
| tonytan4ever | o/ | 14:00 |
| yamahata | hello | 14:00 |
| dasm | mestery: regXboi: this corner seems to be very big | 14:00 |
| sbelous_ | hi | 14:00 |
| amotoki | o/ | 14:00 |
| scheuran | hi | 14:00 |
| njohnston | ajo: I DMed you a question about that patch, let me know if you have a sec to respond. | 14:00 |
| dasm | g'morning | 14:00 |
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| * Qiming waving his hand to mestery | 14:01 | |
| tonytan4ever | clear | 14:01 |
| * regXboi mumbles things about incremental processing, code ugliness and storage persistence | 14:01 | |
| ajo | o/ | 14:01 |
| ajo | njohnston, which one? | 14:01 |
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| ihrachys | ok, let's get it rolling :) | 14:01 |
| ihrachys | #startmeeting networking | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 12 14:01:23 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ihrachys. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking' | 14:01 |
| johnsom | o/ | 14:01 |
| korzen | hello | 14:01 |
| ihrachys | hello my friends! | 14:01 |
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| njohnston | \o/ | 14:01 |
| reedip__ | |o| | 14:01 |
| HenryG | o/ | 14:01 |
| rtheis | o/ | 14:01 |
| mestery | o/ | 14:02 |
| ajo | ~o~ | 14:02 |
| amuller | (^.^) | 14:02 |
| ihrachys | #topic Announcements | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:02 | |
| ski3 | hey! | 14:02 |
| ihrachys | first thing first... | 14:02 |
| ihrachys | Mitaka is finally released | 14:02 |
| ihrachys | woohoo | 14:02 |
| ajo | yeah :D | 14:02 |
| dasm | uff. | 14:02 |
| * regXboi pulls the cord for the balloon drop | 14:02 | |
| blogan | hi | 14:02 |
| reedip__ | Thank God :) | 14:02 |
| ihrachys | but Newton is already open for a while, so it's not like a huge change for most of you | 14:03 |
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| ihrachys | still, stable/mitaka is now open | 14:03 |
| ihrachys | and we can land backports there. so welcome. | 14:03 |
| ihrachys | #topic Summit planning | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Summit planning (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:03 | |
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| ihrachys | as you all probably know, we will have some design summit sessions for neutron | 14:03 |
| dasm | ihrachys: 2 days. am i right? | 14:04 |
| ihrachys | kinda | 14:04 |
| ihrachys | it's one whole day and then another half | 14:04 |
| ihrachys | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-April/092049.html | 14:04 |
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| dasm | mhm. gotcha | 14:04 |
| ihrachys | ^ armax posted a draft schedule, take a look | 14:04 |
| ihrachys | note that Tue will be dedicated to cross-project sessions. | 14:04 |
| ihrachys | so for neutron specific matters it's Wed and part of Thu | 14:05 |
| ihrachys | and then Fri for meetups | 14:05 |
| ihrachys | in case someone is still alive | 14:05 |
| amuller | There's less pure Neutron slots this time around, and more slots for Neutron stadium projects | 14:05 |
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| amuller | We're probably gonna organize a few Friday sessions, I suspect testing, vlan aware vms (That one is a tradition we must uphold) | 14:05 |
| salv-orlando | amuller: stadium? what stadium? ;) | 14:05 |
| salv-orlando | the stadium is dead. Long live the stadium! | 14:06 |
| ihrachys | there will be another for upgrades, ... | 14:06 |
| ajo | Fri probably will have a QoS meetup too :) | 14:06 |
| ihrachys | anyhow. | 14:06 |
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| ihrachys | if you go to the schedule, you can see etherpad links there for each session | 14:06 |
| ihrachys | most of them are half baked or empty | 14:06 |
| Hunter | #openstack-meeting | 14:06 |
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| ihrachys | but folks that will lead those sessions are working on filling them in with relevant stuff | 14:06 |
| mhickey | hello | 14:07 |
| amuller | agendas / abstracts should be done this week | 14:07 |
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| ihrachys | last but not least, register for the official openstack party, it requires RSVP :) | 14:07 |
| ajo | ihrachys, link? | 14:07 |
| ihrachys | ^ yeap. what amuller told. | 14:07 |
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| ihrachys | #link https://www.eventbrite.com/e/stackcity-austin-a-community-festival-for-stackers-tickets-24174378216 | 14:08 |
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| -amotoki- failed to register Monday one :( it's full | 14:08 | |
| ihrachys | I guess we will plan for neutron gathering too, but I will leave it to the next meeting. | 14:08 |
| ajo | ihrachys++ | 14:08 |
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| ihrachys | ok, moving on to the next topic which is... | 14:08 |
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| ihrachys | #topic Gate status | 14:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Gate status (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:09 | |
| dasm | one more event. sunday: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/hold-my-beer-while-i-register-mini-brewery-tour-of-austin-tickets-24244360535 | 14:09 |
| ihrachys | dasm: thanks | 14:09 |
| ihrachys | a lot happened with gate lately | 14:09 |
| ihrachys | 1. some of you could notify api job is non voting | 14:09 |
| ihrachys | that's because we import from tempest, and there were breaking changes there | 14:10 |
| amuller | about api job, right now it's non-voting so we can make some changes to project-config | 14:10 |
| ihrachys | amuller and armax are hopefully on top of getting the job back in shape and voting | 14:10 |
| amuller | We have this patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/274023/ | 14:10 |
| amuller | and 3 patches linked in the review comments for that patch | 14:10 |
| amuller | we should get those in this week then flip the switch back to voting | 14:10 |
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| amuller | and we'll finally use the tempest plugin interface, which is neat | 14:10 |
| * ihrachys highly encourages reviewers to jump into those reviews. | 14:10 | |
| ihrachys | it's everyone's gate, right? :) | 14:11 |
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| ihrachys | once we get the plugin, we don't import from tempest, and all goes well, and we get back to voting. | 14:11 |
| ihrachys | another thing to note on gating is... | 14:11 |
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| ihrachys | 2. a lot of fixes for fullstack/functional jobs landed lately | 14:11 |
| ihrachys | that will hopefully make the jobs less fragile | 14:12 |
| ihrachys | it's still ongoing | 14:12 |
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| ihrachys | again, amuller and jlibosva are on top of that. I encourage everyone to help them getting things done. | 14:12 |
| amuller | fullstack is in good shape, it's non-voting so that's less of a concern to stability. The functional job is voting and currently has a very high failure rate. | 14:12 |
| ihrachys | for what I know, it's both reviews and debugging time that are needed right now. | 14:12 |
| amuller | This is the top issue: https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1567668 | 14:12 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1567668 in neutron "Functional job sometimes hits global 2 hour limit and fails" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Jakub Libosvar (libosvar) | 14:12 |
| * dasm is looking at grafana and indeed. failure rate dropped a little | 14:12 | |
| dasm | http://grafana.openstack.org/dashboard/db/neutron-failure-rate?panelId=5&fullscreen | 14:12 |
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| amuller | jlibosva is currently working on gathering more logs so we have a chance to understand what's wrong | 14:13 |
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| amuller | it starts from this patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/303053/ | 14:13 |
| amuller | currently 4 patches in that chain | 14:13 |
| ihrachys | amuller: why WIP on the bottom? | 14:14 |
| amuller | right now it's just logging stuff, jlibosva correct me if I'm wrong but we currently don't have a solid lead on what is actually causing the issue | 14:14 |
| amuller | ihrachys: just haven't updated the commit message, it's good to go on my end | 14:14 |
| jlibosva | The latest known thing is that ovsdb native interface gets stuck probably when creating bridge | 14:14 |
| ihrachys | other patches have +W but they are waiting for the first one to proceed | 14:14 |
| jlibosva | the reason why job gets stuck as well is probably due to cleaups | 14:14 |
| jlibosva | as they get stuck on the very same call as job | 14:15 |
| jlibosva | s/job/test/ | 14:15 |
| ihrachys | jlibosva: amuller: do we need someone to help you guys? | 14:15 |
| * jlibosva looks at otherwiseguy | 14:15 | |
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| ihrachys | ok make sure you have the needed help, and reach out. | 14:16 |
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| amuller | ihrachys: we could always use help. People can look at the final patch in the series, it reproduced the issue with logs | 14:16 |
| amuller | ihrachys: I've been unable to reproduce this locally, which is always fun... | 14:16 |
| ihrachys | link to logs? | 14:16 |
| jlibosva | http://logs.openstack.org/94/303594/2/check/gate-neutron-dsvm-functional/1f86f1d/ | 14:17 |
| ihrachys | thanks jlibosva | 14:17 |
| ihrachys | ok, on bright side of the gate... | 14:17 |
| * ajo hates when he's not able to reproduce locally | 14:17 | |
| ihrachys | usual tempest jobs are pretty stable lately | 14:17 |
| ihrachys | #link http://grafana.openstack.org/dashboard/db/neutron-failure-rate?panelId=4&fullscreen | 14:17 |
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| ihrachys | and that's a good time to add more jobs | 14:18 |
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| ihrachys | so first thing, dvr job is now voting! | 14:18 |
| carl_baldwin | In the gate queue no less. | 14:18 |
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| ihrachys | second thing, grenade multinode is on its way too, I expect it to be sorted out before summit | 14:18 |
| amuller | cheers to the DVR team | 14:18 |
| ajo | +++ congrats | 14:19 |
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| ihrachys | yeah, thanks everyone for getting it to where it is. | 14:19 |
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| ihrachys | it was a long way. | 14:19 |
| ihrachys | #topic Bugs | 14:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:19 | |
| ihrachys | previous week amotoki served as the deputy | 14:20 |
| ihrachys | and blogan is this week deputy | 14:20 |
| ihrachys | amotoki: anything worthy? | 14:20 |
| blogan | yes | 14:20 |
| amotoki | i think the deputy of the previous week was reedip | 14:20 |
| ihrachys | oh sorry, I misread | 14:20 |
| amotoki | but these weeks were quiet | 14:20 |
| blogan | i saw reedip doing bugs, but i thought armax said it was you last week | 14:20 |
| ihrachys | reedip: any specific bugs that need team attention? | 14:20 |
| ihrachys | blogan: yeah, that's why I assumed | 14:21 |
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| ihrachys | hm, it does not seem like reedip is ready for an update. I will reach him later. | 14:22 |
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| ihrachys | blogan: thanks for volunteering for the week. | 14:22 |
| blogan | ill try to hit him up too see if there's anything i need to know | 14:22 |
| ihrachys | thanks | 14:22 |
| ihrachys | we would need volunteers for next weeks. | 14:22 |
| blogan | ihrachys: its about time i do it :) | 14:22 |
| ihrachys | it may be hard to get someone on the summit week, so I highly encourage folks that don't go to step in | 14:23 |
| ihrachys | but I will leave that to be sorted on the next meeting. | 14:23 |
| dasm | ihrachys: armax will deal with it ;) | 14:23 |
| ihrachys | finally, the main part of the meeting, which is... | 14:23 |
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| ihrachys | #topic Newton blueprints | 14:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Newton blueprints (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:24 | |
| ihrachys | #link https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/newton-1 | 14:24 |
| ihrachys | the last time we were going thru the list, but have not completed it | 14:24 |
| amotoki | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/newton/+assignments | 14:24 |
| ihrachys | we should check all BPs to see whether new assignees are needed, and whether we want those to retarget. | 14:24 |
| ihrachys | amotoki: thanks, that's useful | 14:25 |
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| carl_baldwin | I'm looking to target https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/vm-boot-with-unaddressed-port for Newton. | 14:26 |
| ihrachys | the last time we ended at fwaasv2 and vlan-aware-vms. | 14:26 |
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| carl_baldwin | It turns out there is some synergy with it and routed networks' need for deferred IP address assignement. | 14:26 |
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| ihrachys | it's nova? | 14:26 |
| ihrachys | I guess that's something to discuss with nova folks | 14:27 |
| carl_baldwin | ihrachys: Maybe I got the wrong one, I thought there was a Neutron verison. | 14:27 |
| carl_baldwin | version. | 14:27 |
| * carl_baldwin goes looking. | 14:27 | |
| ihrachys | is it https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/vm-without-l3-address ? we will get to it later. | 14:27 |
| ihrachys | ok first thing is. | 14:28 |
| ihrachys | #link #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/neutron-lib | 14:28 |
| ihrachys | dougwig: wanna give an update on the spec? | 14:28 |
| carl_baldwin | ihrachys: Yep, that's it. Sorry. | 14:28 |
| ihrachys | sorry, bp | 14:28 |
| ihrachys | looking at the gerrit topic | 14:28 |
| ihrachys | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bp/neutron-lib,n,z | 14:28 |
| ihrachys | there is not much to review. | 14:28 |
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| ihrachys | mestery: since you are the approver, can you help with that? | 14:29 |
| HenryG | Well, I have some patches | 14:29 |
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| mestery | ihrachys: Looking | 14:30 |
| amotoki | I think most reviews have no bp/neutron-lib topic | 14:30 |
| amotoki | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/neutron-lib+status:open | 14:30 |
| amuller | ihrachys: Is there a point we can say the neutron-lib blueprint is accomplished? Otherwise we don't need a blueprint anymore to track it | 14:30 |
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| ihrachys | amuller: exactly my question, you beat me. when are we DONE? | 14:30 |
| HenryG | No | 14:30 |
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| * ihrachys tries hard to relate answer to a question | 14:31 | |
| HenryG | We have a session at the summit for neutron-lib | 14:31 |
| HenryG | There we will outline/discuss goals | 14:31 |
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| HenryG | And maybe figure out how to decide when to close the BP | 14:32 |
| ihrachys | HenryG: ok, fair enough. let's postpone. | 14:32 |
| HenryG | Because it will go on forever | 14:32 |
| ihrachys | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/service-subnets | 14:32 |
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| ihrachys | I saw haleyb respinned the spec. | 14:33 |
| haleyb | ihrachys: i need to update it again | 14:33 |
| ihrachys | ok as long as we have active interest. | 14:33 |
| haleyb | i saw your comment on tags, we decided against that at the mid-cycle | 14:33 |
| ihrachys | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/subnet-onboard | 14:34 |
| ihrachys | carl_baldwin: is it on your radar? do you have cycles? | 14:34 |
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| ihrachys | hm. ok let's assume the answers are yes and yes. | 14:36 |
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| ihrachys | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/enginefacade-switch | 14:36 |
| ihrachys | HenryG: akamyshnikova: you handle that right? we don't have a spec or smth, so it's a matter of review. | 14:36 |
| carl_baldwin | ihrachys: yes and yes | 14:36 |
| ihrachys | carl_baldwin: as I thought ;) | 14:36 |
| * carl_baldwin was delayed while focusing on the radar screen for a moment. | 14:37 | |
| reedip__ | hi | 14:37 |
| ihrachys | HenryG: how huge is the work there? | 14:37 |
| HenryG | ihrachys: We are working on a mini-spec listing the steps needed | 14:37 |
| amotoki | I see WIP patch has been posted on engine facade. it says step-1, so it woud be nice if the milestone is clarified. | 14:38 |
| akamyshnikova | ihrachys, there is one patch on review and more to come :) | 14:38 |
| ihrachys | akamyshnikova: do we have an estimation of the number of steps to take? | 14:38 |
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| akamyshnikova | ihrachys, it will be two or three steps, but the last one can contain a lot of patches, I'm still looking onto this | 14:39 |
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| ihrachys | ok, thanks. let's wait for the spec. | 14:40 |
| ihrachys | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/dhcp-options-per-subnet | 14:40 |
| ihrachys | that one is rather dead | 14:40 |
| ihrachys | there is a spec: https://review.openstack.org/247027 | 14:40 |
| ihrachys | but it's not actively worked on | 14:40 |
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| amotoki | yes, the author was not active lately.. | 14:40 |
| ihrachys | I guess unless the author gets back to work, we will realistically drop it from the target. | 14:41 |
| ihrachys | anyone interested to revive the work? | 14:41 |
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| amotoki | i will check the author about his bandwidth | 14:42 |
| ihrachys | I guess the answer is no. so I will discuss the drop with armax later. | 14:42 |
| ihrachys | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/bgp-spinout | 14:42 |
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| ihrachys | I believe we are on track with it | 14:43 |
| ihrachys | there are infra/governance patches in flight | 14:43 |
| ihrachys | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/268726/ | 14:43 |
| ihrachys | vikram_: I assume you will get it to completion in N1-N2 | 14:43 |
| vikram_ | ihrachys: sure | 14:44 |
| vikram_ | ihrachys: Need help for the repo creation approval | 14:44 |
| ihrachys | carl_baldwin: you had concerns on that spin-off? | 14:44 |
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| ihrachys | oh it was just about Mitaka. | 14:44 |
| carl_baldwin | ihrachys: right | 14:45 |
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| carl_baldwin | I'm +1 now | 14:45 |
| vikram_ | some minor polishing required to make armax happy ;) | 14:45 |
| vikram_ | will discuss and publish the next PS soon | 14:45 |
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| ihrachys | thanks. moving to the next one which is... | 14:46 |
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| ihrachys | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/keystone-v3 | 14:46 |
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| dasm | here | 14:46 |
| ihrachys | dasm: spec re-proposed for N, right? | 14:46 |
| dasm | ihrachys: i've seen your comments. will try to address it asap. i talked to HenryG and he's also planning to send some updates on this. | 14:46 |
| dasm | ihrachys: yes. | 14:46 |
| dasm | if there is still interest on get rid of legacy code, i'm in. | 14:47 |
| ihrachys | cool. I guess it's safe to say there will be progress on that one in N1. | 14:47 |
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| dasm | definitively | 14:47 |
| ihrachys | HenryG: please work with dasm to get spec ready, so that dasm can do coding | 14:47 |
| ihrachys | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/vm-without-l3-address | 14:48 |
| ihrachys | carl_baldwin: that's the one you wanted to raise. | 14:48 |
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| ihrachys | it's in Slow progress right now | 14:48 |
| carl_baldwin | ihrachys: I've assigned it to me. I'm going to pick it up, at least for the hard part which is the port deferral. | 14:48 |
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| carl_baldwin | So, I guess I'll be spinning the spec very soon. | 14:49 |
| ihrachys | carl_baldwin: thanks a lot, it's in good hands now :) ajo, make sure you provide feedback on the spec. | 14:49 |
| ihrachys | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/ml2-ovs-qos-with-dscp | 14:49 |
| ihrachys | hm. how is it still a thing? | 14:50 |
| ihrachys | haven't we landed it already? | 14:50 |
| njohnston | I guess it's just waiting for the fullstack tests to merge | 14:50 |
| ihrachys | aha | 14:50 |
| njohnston | that's all that is left | 14:50 |
| ihrachys | link? | 14:50 |
| njohnston | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/288392/ | 14:50 |
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| ihrachys | ok I will take a look after the meeting. | 14:50 |
| njohnston | and those are waiting on the next release of python-neutronclient so we can get a version that has the client dscp code for gate tests | 14:51 |
| ihrachys | amotoki: are we ready to release client? | 14:51 |
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| amotoki | ihrachys: will check soon. i don't see any problesm now. | 14:51 |
| ihrachys | amotoki: then let's cut it off and allow qos folks to proceed with fullstack | 14:51 |
| ihrachys | amotoki: let's discuss it after the meeting. | 14:52 |
| amotoki | ihrachys: sure | 14:52 |
| njohnston | thanks | 14:52 |
| ihrachys | ok cool. and the last one is... | 14:52 |
| ihrachys | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/vmware-vpnaas-service-driver | 14:52 |
| ihrachys | I am not sure why it's in neutron. | 14:52 |
| ihrachys | is it because vpnaas does not split drivers out of tree? | 14:52 |
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| blogan | ihrachys: if its like lbaas that is correct | 14:52 |
| blogan | and im pretty sure it is | 14:52 |
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| ihrachys | the patch in question is really tiny | 14:53 |
| amotoki | i think we can do either: in-tree and out-of-tree | 14:53 |
| ihrachys | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/303226/3 | 14:53 |
| ihrachys | which makes me wonder why we need a bp for that :) | 14:53 |
| ihrachys | but ok | 14:53 |
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| ihrachys | amotoki: right. we could at least encourage new drivers to go out of tree. | 14:53 |
| ihrachys | as we did in neutron while working on the split. | 14:53 |
| ihrachys | but probably vpnaas team has a different view on that. | 14:54 |
| ihrachys | anyhow, I don't see a problem with tracking the driver with BP. | 14:54 |
| ihrachys | and that's the whole list we currently have. | 14:54 |
| amotoki | correct. it is better to be discussed in the future of *aas session and clarified. | 14:54 |
| ihrachys | if you have more stuff that you want to target to N, and you have time and resources to handle it, please reach drivers team or PTL. | 14:54 |
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| ihrachys | and that's the agenda I had for today. | 14:55 |
| ihrachys | #topic Open discussion | 14:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:55 | |
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| ihrachys | anything that folks would like to raise now? | 14:55 |
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| reedip__ | hi | 14:55 |
| hichihara | I saw reedip__ | 14:55 |
| hichihara | :) | 14:55 |
| reedip__ | I found one bug of interest | 14:56 |
| reedip__ | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1568202 | 14:56 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1568202 in kolla mitaka "linux bridge agent gets out of sync with plugin" [Critical,Triaged] | 14:56 |
| reedip__ | which I thought might be important | 14:56 |
| ihrachys | reedip__: hi. you served as a bug deputy right? please sync with blogan who is serving on this week. | 14:56 |
| reedip__ | Yes, I will | 14:56 |
| ihrachys | reedip__: hm, this bug seems kolla only | 14:56 |
| ihrachys | reedip__: there is a patch for kolla | 14:56 |
| ihrachys | they just forgot to bundle brtcl into their containers | 14:56 |
| ihrachys | so I don't see how it's neutron | 14:57 |
| ihrachys | I remove neutron from the bug | 14:57 |
| hichihara | ihrachys: +1 | 14:58 |
| ihrachys | ok, let's call it a day. | 14:58 |
| ihrachys | #endmeeting | 14:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 12 14:58:08 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2016/networking.2016-04-12-14.01.html | 14:58 |
| blogan | adios! | 14:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2016/networking.2016-04-12-14.01.txt | 14:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2016/networking.2016-04-12-14.01.log.html | 14:58 |
| ihrachys | thanks everyone for joining | 14:58 |
| hichihara | bye | 14:58 |
| yamamoto | bye | 14:58 |
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| akamyshnikova | bye | 14:58 |
| mhickey | bye | 14:58 |
| njohnston | bye | 14:58 |
| hoangcx | bye | 14:58 |
| amotoki | thanks | 14:58 |
| annp | bye | 14:58 |
| mestery | later folks | 14:58 |
| scheuran | bye | 14:58 |
| anilvenkata | bye | 14:58 |
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| sbelous_ | bye | 14:59 |
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| dasm | o/ | 14:59 |
| vikram_ | bye | 14:59 |
| carl_baldwin | hi, time for routed networks? | 15:00 |
| blogan | hi | 15:00 |
| blogan | indeed | 15:00 |
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| reedip__ | yup | 15:00 |
| xiaohhui | hi | 15:00 |
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| carl_baldwin | #startmeeting neutron_routed_networks | 15:01 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 12 15:01:15 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is carl_baldwin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_routed_networks' | 15:01 |
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| carl_baldwin | #topic Announcements | 15:01 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)" | 15:01 | |
| carl_baldwin | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Neutron-Routed-Networks | 15:01 |
| tonytan4ever | o/ | 15:01 |
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| carl_baldwin | I don't have any announcements | 15:01 |
| carl_baldwin | Anyone else? | 15:01 |
| reedip__ | nope | 15:02 |
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| tonytan4ever | Well I guess I can use this chance to introduce myself | 15:02 |
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| mlavalle | o/ | 15:02 |
| rtheis | o/ | 15:02 |
| mlavalle | carl_baldwin: just remind the team the summit is 2 weeks aways | 15:02 |
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| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: Yes! It is coming fast. | 15:03 |
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| reedip__ | not coming .... Visa not yet approved :( | 15:03 |
| reedip__ | stuck in Administrative processing.... | 15:03 |
| reedip__ | will wait for the notes :) | 15:03 |
| vikram_ | reedip__: Hope you get it soon | 15:03 |
| carl_baldwin | reedip__: Very sorry to hear that. | 15:03 |
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| carl_baldwin | Okay, moving on. | 15:04 |
| carl_baldwin | #topic Progress | 15:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Progress (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)" | 15:04 | |
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| carl_baldwin | Progress slowed down this week a bit for me. But, there is still some. | 15:05 |
| carl_baldwin | #topic Basic CRUD | 15:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Basic CRUD (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)" | 15:05 | |
| carl_baldwin | This patch has stalled. I got feedback from armax that I need to address which will result in some rework. | 15:05 |
| carl_baldwin | I decided to finish up my action items from last week before I go back to address that. | 15:06 |
| blogan | carl_baldwin: is the rework just making it its own plugin and not a mixin to ml2? | 15:06 |
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| carl_baldwin | blogan: I think you're thinking down the right lines but the terminology might be a little off. | 15:06 |
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| carl_baldwin | The feedback is to use the extension manager instead of a mixin. | 15:06 |
| carl_baldwin | The mixin was never really tied to ml2. | 15:07 |
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| carl_baldwin | Anyway, I'm hoping to sneak in the changes before summit. But, with summit approaching, it is beginning to take my time away. | 15:07 |
| blogan | carl_baldwin: i guess i dont understand how the extension manager comes into play, but I can wait to see | 15:08 |
| carl_baldwin | blogan: I don't fully understand it either but mlavalle has been through a similar change for DNS. I have some memories of reviewing that. | 15:09 |
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| carl_baldwin | As I recall, mlavalle didn't think it was as bad as it first looked. Is that right mlavalle ? | 15:09 |
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| mlavalle | carl_baldwin: it is really easy | 15:09 |
| mlavalle | carl_baldwin: but maybe blogan has a point | 15:10 |
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| blogan | mlavalle: i probably dont, i'm more ignorant right now | 15:10 |
| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: Could you elaborate? | 15:10 |
| blogan | i was thinking it'd be more like a service plugin | 15:10 |
| mlavalle | the way I used th extension manager (and the way I understand it) the extension manager allows you to process additional attributes for existing top resources | 15:11 |
| reedip__ | Thats what my understanding is as well ... ^^ | 15:11 |
| blogan | mlavalle: it allows to extend existing resources yes, but something still has to handle it | 15:11 |
| mlavalle | carl_baldwin: are you adding create_segment, update_segment, etc methods to ml2? | 15:12 |
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| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: Later on, those will come. | 15:12 |
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| mlavalle | in that case the extension manager will be useful | 15:12 |
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| xiaohhui | so, the extension manager is for ml2, right? | 15:13 |
| mlavalle | xiaohhui: yes | 15:13 |
| blogan | ohhh ml2 extensions | 15:13 |
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| mlavalle | carl_baldwin: and the extension manager will allow you to add segment related functionality to existing top resouces | 15:13 |
| * blogan finally put 1 and 1 together | 15:14 | |
| reedip__ | carl_baldwin: while developing l2 adjacency, I also was thinking how to make all the extensions work in a single file | 15:14 |
| mlavalle | xiaohhui, blogan: neutron/plugins/ml2/extensions | 15:14 |
| blogan | mlavalle: yeah i was thinking of api extensions | 15:14 |
| xiaohhui | but the segment now is as a first class object, we will create/delete it in ml2 directly, will the extension manager still apply? | 15:15 |
| mlavalle | in any case, is not difficult at all. not worst than a mixin | 15:15 |
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| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: Interesting. I might have to pick your brain on this once I get the IPAM changes up for review. | 15:16 |
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| mlavalle | xiaohhui: yeah that is why I am making the distinction | 15:16 |
| carl_baldwin | reedip__: I might be able to provide some assistance once I get over the learning curve myself. | 15:16 |
| mlavalle | xiaohhui: we are going to add create, update, etc methods to ml2. Just for that, we might not need an extension | 15:17 |
| carl_baldwin | This discussion has given me a good starting point. I hope to get to it tomorrow. | 15:17 |
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| reedip__ | carl_baldwin: okay, I think review would be the best way to move forward | 15:17 |
| blogan | i look forward to learning about it too | 15:17 |
| carl_baldwin | OK, let's move on and plan to get to that in review later this week. | 15:18 |
| carl_baldwin | #topic Associate Subnets to Segments and IPAM | 15:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Associate Subnets to Segments and IPAM (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)" | 15:18 | |
| carl_baldwin | I'm still working this. I have it basically working in my sandbox but I have a bunch of UTs to fix. | 15:18 |
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| tonytan4ever | Well I am interested in picking this task up | 15:19 |
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| carl_baldwin | Basically, what I did was I added a way to pass the IPAM driver a list of subnet ids instead of just one. That way the driver can optimize. But, identifying the candidate subnets will still be in Neutron. | 15:19 |
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| carl_baldwin | tonytan4ever: I will welcome your feedback on the patch when I post it for review. From there, maybe we can work on a way for you to help it continue to move forward. | 15:20 |
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| tonytan4ever | sounds like a good plan. I will look at the PR once it is ready | 15:21 |
| carl_baldwin | I will reset my goal to get this posted by the end of the day today. | 15:21 |
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| tonytan4ever | cool. | 15:22 |
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| carl_baldwin | tonytan4ever: Thanks, I'll set the topic to "bp/routed-networks" so it should be easy to find once it is up. Watch for it in about 24 hours. | 15:22 |
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| tonytan4ever | Cool. I will keep an eye on it. | 15:22 |
| carl_baldwin | That's all I have on this. | 15:22 |
| carl_baldwin | #topic Nova Scheduler | 15:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Nova Scheduler (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)" | 15:23 | |
| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: Hi. I think we've made some progress on this. | 15:23 |
| mlavalle | yes, we made great progress on this | 15:23 |
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| mlavalle | esentially we wanted to get guidance / agreement from jaypipes on how to handle a couple of use cases between Nova resource pools and Neutron | 15:24 |
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| carl_baldwin | I ran our thoughts about Neutron remembering at what point a port got its IP address (deferred or at port create) by armax. | 15:24 |
| carl_baldwin | armax pointed out some synergy with that idea and this blueprint: | 15:24 |
| carl_baldwin | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/vm-without-l3-address | 15:24 |
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| mlavalle | great, will take a look and compare to what we discussed yesterday with Jay | 15:25 |
| carl_baldwin | In that blueprint, someone suggested a tri-state flag on the port to tell if the IP address will be 1) assigned right away, 2) deferred, or 3) never assigned. | 15:25 |
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| mlavalle | that starts sounding to something we might use | 15:26 |
| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: Given this data on the port, we can derive what we need to know about the port when Nova goes to unbind the port. | 15:26 |
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| mlavalle | yeah, I'll dig in :-) | 15:26 |
| carl_baldwin | It was a very astute observation by armax, our fearless leader. | 15:26 |
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| mlavalle | he is always astute... especially in Gerrit | 15:27 |
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| carl_baldwin | In a way, this gives us a head start in learning what obstacles we would run in to trying to get deferred IP allocation working with Nova. | 15:28 |
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| carl_baldwin | From a different more pessimistic perspective, it does look like a little bit more work. | 15:28 |
| mlavalle | yes | 15:29 |
| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: Anyway, let's make sure that we can make that blueprint successful and I think we'll get what we need out of it. | 15:29 |
| carl_baldwin | I've assigned it to myself. | 15:29 |
| mlavalle | the good news is that we are uncovering this hurdles early in the game | 15:29 |
| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: ++ | 15:29 |
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| reedip__ | I think the logs of the discussion would be very valuable .... | 15:30 |
| carl_baldwin | Anything else related to Nova? | 15:30 |
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| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: ^ | 15:31 |
| mlavalle | carl_baldwin: did you have a chance to talk to armax about discussing routed networks in the jont session with Nova in Austin? | 15:31 |
| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: Ah, yes we did discuss that a bit. | 15:31 |
| carl_baldwin | He was aware of the session and the time slot and this is on the top of his list for that session. | 15:31 |
| mlavalle | ++ | 15:32 |
| mlavalle | that's what we need, especially since this sesion goes right after the Nova team discusses the scheduler | 15:32 |
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| carl_baldwin | I'm actually feeling pretty good about the decision to keep track of those use cases in Neutron and adjusting the resource pools in Nova. | 15:33 |
| mlavalle | it was setup this way by mriedem to lead to the routed networks conversation | 15:33 |
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| carl_baldwin | We're going to have to have a pretty good idea about how we're going to manage host aggregates and resource pools in Nova. | 15:33 |
| blogan | mlavalle, carl_baldwin: was that on the schedule armax posted yesterday? | 15:33 |
| blogan | the joint nova sessions? | 15:33 |
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| mlavalle | blogan: no, it is in the nova schedule | 15:34 |
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| blogan | mlavalle: okay good to know | 15:34 |
| mlavalle | carl_baldwin: the other thing I want to mention to the team is that the Newton spec for generic pools resources is up for review here: | 15:35 |
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| carl_baldwin | blogan: Looks like our sessions start later that day. | 15:35 |
| mlavalle | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/300176/ | 15:35 |
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| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: Thanks, I'll read through it. | 15:35 |
| mlavalle | we need this spec to get off the ground on the Nova side for our work on routed networks to move ahead | 15:35 |
| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: ++ | 15:36 |
| mlavalle | so we can use all the help we can get | 15:36 |
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| carl_baldwin | Yes. | 15:37 |
| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: Anything else to discuss on this topic? | 15:37 |
| mlavalle | that's it for this week. we can move on | 15:37 |
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| carl_baldwin | #topic Host / Segment Mapping | 15:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Host / Segment Mapping (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)" | 15:37 | |
| mlavalle | hi again | 15:37 |
| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: You're a busy guy | 15:37 |
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| mlavalle | so I've been reviewing https://review.openstack.org/#/c/205631/33 since carl_baldwin pointed me to it | 15:38 |
| mlavalle | I definitely learned a bit from it | 15:38 |
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| mlavalle | we can re use check_segment_for_agent in SimpleAgentMechanismDriverBase | 15:39 |
| mlavalle | to decide on host segment mapping on data coming from the agents | 15:40 |
| mlavalle | and then we might refactor the work in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/205631/33 to help that woprk to scale up better | 15:41 |
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| blogan | this looks very similar to the dhcp agent scheduling for a segment too | 15:41 |
| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: That sounds pretty good. | 15:41 |
| mlavalle | the only de-tour we will have to take is with the SR-IOV mechanism agent | 15:41 |
| carl_baldwin | blogan: Yes, it is very related. In fact, it might be a good place to jump in and help things along. | 15:42 |
| blogan | carl_baldwin: definitely | 15:42 |
| mlavalle | it wasn't originally immplemented inheriting from SimpleAgentMechanismDriverBase | 15:42 |
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| mlavalle | so it doesn't inherit check_segment_for_agent | 15:42 |
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| mlavalle | the reason is that the SR-IOV driver originbally had the option to run without agent | 15:43 |
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| mlavalle | but that option was eliminated in Mitaka | 15:43 |
| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: interesting | 15:43 |
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| mlavalle | I checked with irenab this morning (the SR-IOV implementer) and she doesn't see any problem in having this mechanism driver inherit from SimpleAgentMechanismDriverBase | 15:44 |
| mlavalle | I will start a patch to do just that | 15:44 |
| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: Great, I'm happy to be a reviewer. blogan you too? | 15:45 |
| mlavalle | with that all the in tree mechanism drivers will have a uniform interface that we will leverage for host segment mapping and then improve the dhcp agent work | 15:45 |
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| blogan | carl_baldwin: yes! | 15:45 |
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| mlavalle | carl_baldwin: I thnk this is good progress report for this week :-) | 15:46 |
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| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: great! | 15:46 |
| carl_baldwin | #topic Create / delete segment in ML2 | 15:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Create / delete segment in ML2 (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)" | 15:47 | |
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| carl_baldwin | xiaohhui: hi, I'm not sure you can do much with this until I figure out what to do with the basic CRUD patch. | 15:47 |
| xiaohhui | yeah, | 15:47 |
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| xiaohhui | I added a new patch, the code looks good from DB's view | 15:48 |
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| xiaohhui | But I am afraid it will need change based on your change on basic CRUD | 15:48 |
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| xiaohhui | One thing to make sure, we will not support update for segment, right? | 15:49 |
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| rtheis_ | if name and description are added then update will be supported | 15:49 |
| rtheis_ | I think reedip was working on that | 15:49 |
| carl_baldwin | xiaohhui: I don't think so for the existing attributes. We might support it for the name attribute. But, that shouldn't be much of a problem I don't think. | 15:49 |
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| carl_baldwin | rtheis_: Right, and description . | 15:50 |
| reedip__ | my patch is STUCK | 15:50 |
| carl_baldwin | reedip__: Mine too. ;) | 15:50 |
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| xiaohhui | OK, I can continue to look into to see if there is any issue with the real functionality, now I only tried with DB data change. | 15:51 |
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| xiaohhui | I think that will be useful even if the code might change for the extension manager. | 15:51 |
| reedip__ | dont know why ...aLL: care to give some help ? https://review.openstack.org/293305 ? | 15:51 |
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| carl_baldwin | reedip__: I've got to prioritize the preceding patch adding the basic CRUD. It will need some rework. | 15:52 |
| carl_baldwin | xiaohhui: ack | 15:52 |
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| carl_baldwin | xiaohhui: I think you're right. | 15:52 |
| reedip__ | carl_baldwin :syn ack... | 15:53 |
| xiaohhui | I think that is all for this work | 15:53 |
| carl_baldwin | reedip__: Thanks. | 15:53 |
| blogan | reedip__: i think that should be a new extension | 15:53 |
| blogan | api extension | 15:53 |
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| carl_baldwin | blogan: Why a new extension? | 15:53 |
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| reedip__ | blogan; I dont think so, but please let me know ur reasons for the same? | 15:54 |
| blogan | oh god nvm dont mind me | 15:54 |
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| reedip__ | I think u r still in the extension Universe .... | 15:54 |
| blogan | i was thinking it was an older extension but realized it was the one just added | 15:54 |
| carl_baldwin | blogan: :) | 15:54 |
| blogan | too early for me, carry on | 15:54 |
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| carl_baldwin | blogan: After I asked I realized that's probably what you were thinking. | 15:55 |
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| carl_baldwin | I think we're safe to keep this extension open until the release. | 15:55 |
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| carl_baldwin | Let's just skip right to Open Agenda. | 15:55 |
| blogan | carl_baldwin: yep! | 15:55 |
| carl_baldwin | #topic Open Agenda | 15:55 |
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| carl_baldwin | Anything on the client, DHCP, or anything else? | 15:56 |
| carl_baldwin | 3.5 minutes remaining. | 15:56 |
| blogan | so i've been ramping up on the dhcp agent stuff, just learing at this point | 15:56 |
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| reedip__ | nothing on neutronclient , WIP for l2 publisjhed, the name/desc patch is stuck but needs API tests rewritten I guess | 15:57 |
| rtheis_ | osc client patches were updated to align with API changes | 15:57 |
| carl_baldwin | reedip__: Thanks. | 15:57 |
| blogan | who is someone who knows a lot about the dhcp agent parts that I could ask questions to whenever I need to? | 15:57 |
| rtheis_ | still a WIP but good progress | 15:57 |
| carl_baldwin | rtheis_: Thanks! | 15:57 |
| rtheis_ | yw | 15:57 |
| reedip__ | check the Lieutenant | 15:58 |
| xiaohhui | there is a patch in networking-ovn to read the data that routed networks need | 15:58 |
| reedip__ | blogan : | 15:58 |
| carl_baldwin | blogan: ZZelle might be a good one. mlavalle too by now. | 15:58 |
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| blogan | id rather nto talk to mlavalle anymore | 15:58 |
| blogan | did i say that out loud? | 15:58 |
| mlavalle | blogan: i'd buy you luncj ;-) | 15:58 |
| * blogan loves mlavalle | 15:58 | |
| carl_baldwin | blogan: I'm always looking for opportunities to talk to mlavalle | 15:58 |
| mlavalle | lunch^^^ | 15:58 |
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| blogan | carl_baldwin: you're a masochist i see | 15:59 |
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| reedip__ | who said there is no such thing as a free lunch :P | 15:59 |
| carl_baldwin | Well, we've got seconds left ... | 15:59 |
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| carl_baldwin | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 12 16:00:03 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_routed_networks/2016/neutron_routed_networks.2016-04-12-15.01.html | 16:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_routed_networks/2016/neutron_routed_networks.2016-04-12-15.01.txt | 16:00 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_routed_networks/2016/neutron_routed_networks.2016-04-12-15.01.log.html | 16:00 |
| blogan | have a good day everyone! | 16:00 |
| reedip__ | |o| | 16:00 |
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| ayoung-mobile | Keystoners assemble! | 17:58 |
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| amakarov | o/ | 17:59 |
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| stevemar | o/ | 18:00 |
| stevemar | #startmeeting keystone | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 12 18:00:21 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is stevemar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| roxanaghe | o/ | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:00 | |
| stevemar | hello! | 18:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:00 |
| stevemar | #link agenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 18:00 |
| crinkle | o/ | 18:00 |
| bknudson | hi | 18:00 |
| knikolla | o/ hello | 18:00 |
| * ayoung-mobile in lunch mode still | 18:00 | |
| dstanek | o/ | 18:00 |
| gsilvis | hello | 18:00 |
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| breton | hi | 18:00 |
| shaleh | \o | 18:00 |
| gyee | \o | 18:00 |
| raildo | \o/ | 18:00 |
| stevemar | they are testing the fire alarm right now in my building, fun times | 18:01 |
| morgan | oh | 18:01 |
| morgan | o/ | 18:01 |
| morgan | \o | 18:01 |
| stevemar | amakarov: hope you're around, you're on the agenda! | 18:01 |
| amakarov | Hi all | 18:01 |
| samueldmq | oh I am here | 18:01 |
| stevemar | #topic mitaka is out | 18:01 |
| samueldmq | and I was waiting for a courtesy ping :B | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "mitaka is out (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:01 | |
| samueldmq | bye mitaka | 18:01 |
| samueldmq | hello newton | 18:01 |
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| morgan | amakarov: i have things to talk to you about that caching btw... | 18:02 |
| stevemar | i am off my game... | 18:02 |
| morgan | oooooh | 18:02 |
| stevemar | ping ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, crinkle, claudiub, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, joesavak, jorge_munoz, knikolla, lbragstad, lhcheng, marekd, MaxPC, morganfainberg, nkinder, raildo, rodrigods, rderose, roxanaghe, samleon, samueldmq, shaleh, stevemar, tjcocozz, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong, xek | 18:02 |
| morgan | yay Mitaka | 18:02 |
| rodrigods | o/ | 18:02 |
| bknudson | we support mitaka for at least 12 months | 18:02 |
| amakarov | Why don't we cache new tokens in kmw cache right after they were issued? | 18:02 |
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| lbragstad | o/ | 18:02 |
| ayoung-mobile | Sam you are supposed tobsay "here I am!". It goes with the name | 18:02 |
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| shaleh | queue horrible bug discovery in 3,2,.... | 18:02 |
| stevemar | MITAKA is out! | 18:02 |
| jamielennox | o/ | 18:02 |
| stevemar | release notes! http://docs.openstack.org/releasenotes/keystone/mitaka.html | 18:02 |
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| samueldmq | here I am! <<< ayoung-mobile | 18:02 |
| lhcheng | o/ | 18:02 |
| stevemar | just wanted to say thanks to everyone that contributed | 18:03 |
| rderose | o/ | 18:03 |
| morgan | amakarov: hold up but yes. | 18:03 |
| stevemar | and i hope we have an awesome newton | 18:03 |
| stevemar | thats alL! | 18:03 |
| * morgan hides the microphone before ayoung-mobile gets it ;) | 18:03 | |
| samueldmq | we will ahve !! for sure | 18:03 |
| stevemar | alright, lets give the microphone over | 18:04 |
| raildo | stevemar, great job as PTL on mitaka! congrats :) | 18:04 |
| stevemar | #topic Pre-cache new tokens for 5 minutes in KMW cache | 18:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Pre-cache new tokens for 5 minutes in KMW cache (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:04 | |
| morgan | raildo: ++ so glad it wasn't me :) | 18:04 |
| raildo | morgan, haha | 18:04 |
| bknudson | I assume this this auth_token middleware? | 18:04 |
| breton | kmw == ksm? | 18:04 |
| morgan | yeah | 18:04 |
| morgan | keystonemiddleware | 18:04 |
| samueldmq | nice, I was confused too | 18:05 |
| amakarov | Well, I've ran into one stupid thing we do for every token: validate it right after it was issued | 18:05 |
| morgan | can i make a recommendation - do not abbreviate "ks, ksm, ksa,..." | 18:05 |
| gyee | damn acronyms | 18:05 |
| ayoung-mobile | Doesn't a shared memcache work now | 18:05 |
| amakarov | is it necessary? | 18:05 |
| morgan | so there is a reason for this | 18:05 |
| bknudson | how does auth_token know about the new token? | 18:05 |
| samueldmq | bknudson: ++ | 18:05 |
| bknudson | send it over a message bus? | 18:05 |
| amakarov | ayoung-mobile, yes, and we can cache new tokens there | 18:06 |
| morgan | bknudson: he's saying puysh the validated totken to memcache | 18:06 |
| morgan | directly from keystone | 18:06 |
| morgan | on issuance | 18:06 |
| amakarov | without validating them first | 18:06 |
| ayoung-mobile | Amakarov so this is on issue? | 18:06 |
| jamielennox | i don't think you could message bus it, keystone would have to go straight to memcache | 18:06 |
| samueldmq | jsut a config thing not ? | 18:06 |
| samueldmq | no* | 18:06 |
| morgan | so hold up before we discuss how we get tokens out there | 18:06 |
| ayoung-mobile | Nah right into memcache from keystone | 18:06 |
| morgan | often endpoints are grouped logically | 18:06 |
| morgan | and have some shared memcache but not all shared | 18:07 |
| amakarov | I'd suggest do that on client side | 18:07 |
| morgan | keystone would need to know what memcaches to push the token to. | 18:07 |
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| amakarov | morgan, that's not essential | 18:07 |
| morgan | amakarov: wait is this a client thing or a middleware thing? | 18:07 |
| amakarov | morgan, that's the client thing I think | 18:07 |
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| morgan | because lets draw the line in the sand, client is NOT trusted to put things in memcache that keystonemiddleware or keystone consumes | 18:08 |
| amakarov | the client should cache new tokens for middleware to get it | 18:08 |
| breton | so how is this different from our current flow in terms of performance? | 18:08 |
| samueldmq | morgan: amakarov: client think -> keystone auth thing ? | 18:08 |
| dstanek | morgan: +1000 | 18:08 |
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| morgan | and client will never be trusted. | 18:08 |
| morgan | to do so | 18:08 |
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| morgan | in fact, most deployments should lock down memcache more than they do... that is a different convo though | 18:08 |
| samueldmq | oh wait, that's just for new issued tokens | 18:08 |
| amakarov | samueldmq, by client I mean keystoneclient lib and everything it uses | 18:09 |
| samueldmq | is it that important? | 18:09 |
| bknudson | if the client can put tokens in the auth_token cache then there's no need for keystone at all | 18:09 |
| samueldmq | I think the effort doesn't pay the improvement (1 request) ? | 18:09 |
| amakarov | bknudson, hmm, right | 18:09 |
| morgan | bknudson: and no security in openstack | 18:09 |
| ayoung-mobile | Amakarov this is client as called from within middleware right? | 18:09 |
| amakarov | let's move it to server side then | 18:09 |
| bknudson | morgan: y, that too. | 18:09 |
| morgan | ok, so server side | 18:09 |
| morgan | you have keystone needing to know all the memcaches to push to | 18:09 |
| amakarov | ayoung-mobile, I want to avoid this first-time validation | 18:10 |
| morgan | i support shared memcache for endpoints | 18:10 |
| jamielennox | so as of a review i have open keystone can/will be consuming keystonemiddleware | 18:10 |
| bknudson | all the memcache clusters | 18:10 |
| amakarov | so I assume we can trust keystone server then | 18:10 |
| jamielennox | so where this code lives is not a big deal | 18:10 |
| morgan | bknudson: correct | 18:10 |
| amakarov | that token is valid | 18:10 |
| dstanek | are we talking about keystone pushing to another service's memcache cluster? | 18:10 |
| morgan | dstanek: possibly | 18:10 |
| ayoung-mobile | Amakarov allinone deploys? | 18:10 |
| dstanek | seems like bad architecture | 18:10 |
| morgan | allinone deployes are not really something we enginerr for | 18:10 |
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| morgan | we get it for free most of the time :) | 18:10 |
| samueldmq | dstanek: I don't like that too | 18:11 |
| amakarov | ayoung-mobile, not exactly | 18:11 |
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| samueldmq | dstanek: too much change for saving 1 validation request | 18:11 |
| morgan | amakarov: i made this argument before | 18:11 |
| morgan | and we explored it ( ayoung-mobile and i ) | 18:11 |
| bknudson | if keystone had a memcache where it could look up tokens quickly then the call from auth_token would be faster | 18:11 |
| morgan | sharing a memcache cluster for endpoints is good | 18:11 |
| morgan | however, keystone pushing to probably a separate cluster in big deploys | 18:12 |
| morgan | is bad | 18:12 |
| morgan | keystone as it is could pre-cache for itself making the validate faster | 18:12 |
| dolphm | morgan: ++ | 18:12 |
| morgan | and i'd be happy to add that to the caching layer for tokens | 18:12 |
| amakarov | anyway, if kmw uses another cache it will stil validate the token as usual | 18:12 |
| dstanek | morgan: i think that's a good idea | 18:12 |
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| morgan | but i wouldn't want keystone to push to the cache in the keystonemiddleware way | 18:12 |
| dolphm | morgan: ++ | 18:13 |
| morgan | keep keystonemiddleware in charge of keystonemiddleware semantics | 18:13 |
| morgan | if the cluster happens to be shared and the semantics are the same | 18:13 |
| morgan | sure | 18:13 |
| dstanek | from an architecture POV a cache is within a service and not a part of the API. | 18:13 |
| dolphm | keystonemiddleware can share the cache of other service's keystoenmiddlewares though, if that's convenient | 18:13 |
| morgan | but i'd focus on keystone pre-caching for itself. | 18:13 |
| samueldmq | dstanek: ++ | 18:13 |
| morgan | and i REALLY like recommending the various services sharing keystonemiddleware caches | 18:13 |
| amakarov | morgan, do you suggest to cache tokens in keystone server very own jaust to validate it faster? | 18:13 |
| morgan | regardless if keystone shares that or not. | 18:14 |
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| morgan | amakarov: it would be easy to on issuance to a pre-cache in keystone | 18:14 |
| amakarov | s/jaust/just/ | 18:14 |
| morgan | and it would make validations faster | 18:14 |
| morgan | for the window of cache | 18:14 |
| amakarov | morgan, sounds like a compromise | 18:14 |
| morgan | so ~300s by default | 18:14 |
| morgan | once keystone uses keystonemiddleware | 18:14 |
| morgan | and keystonemiddleware is on oslo.cache these pre-caches may look the same | 18:15 |
| gyee | morgan, I presume we still invalid the cache of the token changes? | 18:15 |
| amakarov | morgan, under our loads the majority of tokens are short living | 18:15 |
| morgan | so it accelerates everything | 18:15 |
| gyee | i.e. role changes in fernet | 18:15 |
| morgan | gyee: we would need to be smart about where we cache the data. | 18:15 |
| amakarov | gyee, there may be a trade-off | 18:15 |
| morgan | gyee: but we cache for 300s by default | 18:15 |
| morgan | gyee: which we've always said is within our acceptible clock skew | 18:16 |
| amakarov | 5 min cache is ok to wait for | 18:16 |
| jamielennox | morgan: so at least under current design we don't inherit the caching part of keystonemiddleware in keystone | 18:16 |
| morgan | jamielennox: and we shouldn't | 18:16 |
| stevemar | amakarov: are you satisfied with this discussion, is there still a need for the blueprint? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/pre-cache-tokens | 18:16 |
| jamielennox | right | 18:16 |
| gyee | behavior is a bit different though, middleware versus keystone | 18:16 |
| gyee | middleware cache validation results only | 18:16 |
| morgan | jamielennox: i'd like to see keystonemiddleware move to oslo.cache and we can see if they align | 18:16 |
| morgan | jamielennox: but i don't expect it to in the near term | 18:16 |
| amakarov | stevemar, I'm ok with current agreement | 18:16 |
| morgan | gyee: again, known window of validation we accept as tokens being valid for | 18:17 |
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| jamielennox | morgan: gah, i got it so close, but the edge cases are hard | 18:17 |
| shaleh | stevemar: might make sense to document the agreement in a bp | 18:17 |
| morgan | gyee: known risk and within what we consider clock-skew | 18:17 |
| gyee | morgan, sure, options and tradeoffs as always | 18:17 |
| shaleh | stevemar: people might want to know what we were thinking 6 months from now | 18:17 |
| gyee | just saying we need to doc the difference | 18:17 |
| stevemar | shaleh: that's what i'm doing :) | 18:17 |
| morgan | this is a relatively low bar (yay!) to hit for newton | 18:17 |
| morgan | i'm happy to sign up for helping on this front as long as someone else is willing to take a first stab at docs | 18:18 |
| amakarov | shaleh, modified the bp | 18:18 |
| morgan | and/or someone is willing to at least co-author so we have more cache knowledge :) | 18:18 |
| morgan | or take a stab and i'll review | 18:18 |
| morgan | ;) | 18:18 |
| stevemar | amakarov: i may have overridden your changes, launchpad :( | 18:19 |
| morgan | lets continue the impl details offline btw | 18:19 |
| amakarov | morgan, :) | 18:19 |
| bknudson | I'd like to know more about token validation performance since I'm sure our cloud folks will ask about it. | 18:19 |
| morgan | bknudson: sounds good! :) | 18:19 |
| morgan | bknudson: actually i think we have a lot of ways to improve that this cycle | 18:19 |
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| lbragstad | ++ | 18:19 |
| bknudson | how about we split token validation to another service? | 18:19 |
| bknudson | ;) | 18:20 |
| gyee | say what?! | 18:20 |
| * stevemar throws a rotten tomato at bknudson | 18:20 | |
| * morgan borrows a wet emu from mordred to throw at bknudson | 18:20 | |
| ayoung | Lets go tokenless everywhere | 18:20 |
| morgan | ayoung: good plan! | 18:20 |
| stevemar | next topic :) | 18:20 |
| stevemar | #topic OSProfiler integration | 18:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OSProfiler integration (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:20 | |
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| stevemar | amakarov: morgan ^ | 18:21 |
| amakarov | ok, what's holding us from accepting that thing? ) | 18:21 |
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| amakarov | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/294535 | 18:21 |
| morgan | amakarov: was working through the last bits (such as https://review.openstack.org/#/q/I4857cfe1e62d54c3c89a0206ffc895c4cf681ce5,n,z ) with DinaBelova | 18:21 |
| stevemar | amakarov: i don't want config options for it (not sure if this is still an issue_ | 18:21 |
| morgan | making sure we weren't doing something weird with either side | 18:21 |
| amakarov | morgan, yes, and I was fixing that job failures )) | 18:22 |
| morgan | stevemar: all options are [iirc] in osprofiler now | 18:22 |
| morgan | we have an external default set | 18:22 |
| morgan | to default it to off | 18:22 |
| stevemar | ++ | 18:22 |
| morgan | and a couple other things | 18:22 |
| morgan | i'll confirm, but the code is almost there and looks pretty good | 18:22 |
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| morgan | we should aim to land it early this cycle and i plan on opening a convo with DinaBelova at the summit about better ways to desgin for profiling going forward across openstack | 18:23 |
| amakarov | morgan, it has just passed jenkins tests | 18:23 |
| morgan | but we shouldn't wait since that'll be a few cycles out | 18:23 |
| morgan | this is a good starting place | 18:23 |
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| morgan | so in short, review it. | 18:23 |
| shaleh | morgan: ++ | 18:23 |
| morgan | please don't bikeshed it | 18:23 |
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| morgan | and if there are minor concerns lets stack the changes on top where possible | 18:24 |
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| morgan | i am happy where this has moved to and think it can land soon as long as it's reviewed. | 18:24 |
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| dstanek | morgan: we should take some hints from how things like newrelic are implemented | 18:25 |
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| morgan | dstanek: that is the plan. | 18:25 |
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| morgan | dstanek: and setting clear hook points in the projects so anything (not just osprofiler) can hool in | 18:25 |
| dstanek | morgan: i have some ideas, but no time :-( | 18:25 |
| morgan | hook* | 18:25 |
| jamielennox | question though, why doesn't that live in oslo.db? | 18:25 |
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| morgan | jamielennox: it isn't db only | 18:26 |
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| jamielennox | no, but i know i put a review on the oslo.cache one the other day that it should be in oslo.cache | 18:26 |
| dstanek | jamielennox: there should be support in oslo.db, but also in other things | 18:26 |
| jamielennox | as is you are going to be _wrap_session-ing in every project, why not just control it from oslo.db? | 18:26 |
| morgan | jamielennox: that is part of the larger conversation / x-project spec i want to work with DinaBelova on | 18:26 |
| shaleh | so start with it here in Keystone and move it down to oslo.db? | 18:26 |
| bknudson | maybe we can move it to oslo.db once we prove it out | 18:26 |
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| amakarov | shaleh, ++ | 18:27 |
| stevemar | its in all the pipelines too | 18:27 |
| amakarov | let's have something up and running first | 18:27 |
| dstanek | isn't this already in other projects? | 18:27 |
| morgan | dstanek: it is | 18:27 |
| morgan | we're one of the last | 18:27 |
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| jamielennox | that's ok - we can do it that way i'm just wondering why we'd do this particular case this way | 18:27 |
| morgan | iirc | 18:27 |
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| morgan | jamielennox: version 1, i think is the answer | 18:27 |
| dstanek | it that's the case why prove it again? just put it where it belongs | 18:27 |
| jamielennox | k | 18:27 |
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| morgan | dstanek: i think the architecture isn't there. | 18:28 |
| morgan | and having profiling hooks in keystone is a good thing (tm) | 18:28 |
| morgan | even if they are suboptimal for the moment | 18:28 |
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| morgan | once it is in oslo.db we move the stuff out of keystone, it's a pattern we've done before | 18:28 |
| stevemar | true | 18:29 |
| morgan | and should be pretty lightweight to do so as it improves. | 18:29 |
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| morgan | but if we;re adding changes to oslo, and othe rthings i think we should look at the design to be not just osprofiler specific | 18:29 |
| morgan | let anyone hook in | 18:29 |
| stevemar | alright, lets review it then | 18:29 |
| morgan | but in short,lets review it. | 18:29 |
| stevemar | any new issues we can leave as comments | 18:30 |
| morgan | critical concerns please highlight right away | 18:30 |
| morgan | minor concerns can be addon patches | 18:30 |
| morgan | bikeshedding... leave at the door ;) | 18:30 |
| ayoung | I'd rather not think of it as generic hooks, but rather profiling that can be 0 cost disabled | 18:30 |
| * morgan steps off the soapbox | 18:30 | |
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| stevemar | next topic | 18:30 |
| shaleh | ayoung: you mean 0 cost enabled right? | 18:31 |
| morgan | ayoung: join us at the summit and we will work on that :) | 18:31 |
| ayoung | shaleh, nah, meaning you don't pay for it if it is disabled | 18:31 |
| morgan | ayoung: please join us for that convo. | 18:31 |
| morgan | ayoung: that is the goal btw. | 18:31 |
| ayoung | morgan, speaking of summit.... | 18:31 |
| ayoung | is that next? | 18:31 |
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| stevemar | ayoung: next is federation functional tests | 18:31 |
| dstanek | shaleh: unfortunately profiling always has a cost. that's why i was advocating for defaulting to of | 18:31 |
| dstanek | off | 18:31 |
| stevemar | ayoung: what did you have in mind? | 18:31 |
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| morgan | dstanek: and why i -2d it up and down until it was default off | 18:32 |
| ayoung | stevemar, on Profiling? Nothing, just avoiding a general "hooks" approach. | 18:32 |
| shaleh | dstanek: fair anough | 18:32 |
| ayoung | Lets do Federation | 18:32 |
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| stevemar | #topic Keystone federation integration/functional tests | 18:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Keystone federation integration/functional tests (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:32 | |
| rodrigods | knikolla around? | 18:33 |
| knikolla | rodrigods, yeah | 18:33 |
| shaleh | ayoung: we talking k2k here? | 18:33 |
| ayoung | So...dumb Idea.... | 18:33 |
| gsilvis | shaleh: yup | 18:33 |
| knikolla | so, current CI gates do not do functional/integration testing for federation | 18:33 |
| ayoung | what if we made Keystone act as its own Federated IdP? | 18:33 |
| bknudson | devstack should be able to spin up 2 keystone instances so you can do k2k on 1 system. | 18:33 |
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| ayoung | Like...you get an url under OS-FEDERATION | 18:33 |
| ayoung | and it is protected with basic auth | 18:33 |
| rodrigods | ayoung, interesting | 18:33 |
| gsilvis | ayoung: I feel like testing something closer to a real setup would be a more reassuring test | 18:34 |
| shaleh | bkero: yeah, plausible. | 18:34 |
| breton | bknudson: why not use the same keystone as IdP and SP? | 18:34 |
| ayoung | gsilvis, this is testing the Federation code itself. | 18:34 |
| shaleh | bknudson: plausible | 18:34 |
| shaleh | stupid auto nick | 18:34 |
| ayoung | THis is not K2K | 18:34 |
| breton | ayoung: ++ | 18:34 |
| knikolla | ayoung, a real gate with 2 devstack would allow to test features that are enabled by k2k. | 18:34 |
| bknudson | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-March/091055.html says k2k | 18:34 |
| shaleh | knikolla: agreed | 18:34 |
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| gsilvis | ayoung: we had intended it to be a test of K2K | 18:34 |
| ayoung | this is just for getting rid of Password in the token request, and doing basic auth like the web Spec | 18:35 |
| rodrigods | i'd also like to see "regular" federation besides k2k | 18:35 |
| gsilvis | rodrigods: sure | 18:35 |
| ayoung | gsilvis, I care far more about regular federation | 18:35 |
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| breton | rodrigods: i am actually working on this | 18:35 |
| ayoung | but, if this is K2K, go on. | 18:35 |
| rodrigods | breton, wow | 18:35 |
| gyee | what is "regular"? | 18:35 |
| breton | rodrigods: there are patches by dstanek that i'm reviving | 18:35 |
| rodrigods | so... let's focus our efforts | 18:35 |
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| ayoung | gyee, SAML, OpenIDC, Federation with "2K" | 18:35 |
| rodrigods | breton, our idea is to use tempest instead | 18:35 |
| ayoung | without 2K | 18:35 |
| gsilvis | ayoung: yup, I can understand that | 18:35 |
| knikolla | ayoung, K2K includes the regular federation bits. | 18:35 |
| rodrigods | and run the tests using dvms | 18:36 |
| dstanek | is there different code paths between the SP in k2k vs "regular" federation? | 18:36 |
| rodrigods | dstanek, just for the idp | 18:36 |
| rodrigods | actually... | 18:36 |
| rodrigods | no? | 18:36 |
| rodrigods | it should be the same | 18:36 |
| breton | rodrigods: you still need to set up federation bits like mod_shib. Does tempest do that? | 18:36 |
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| rodrigods | breton, we setup it up in devstack | 18:37 |
| gyee | dstanek, no difference as far as I know | 18:37 |
| rodrigods | since it is FOSS software | 18:37 |
| dstanek | breton: not yet. that what my patches do, setup tempest | 18:37 |
| dstanek | rodrigods: ^ | 18:37 |
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| breton | dstanek: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/151310/9 these ones? | 18:37 |
| jamielennox | have we asked devstack about this? it would be a huge change to make two devstacks parallelably installable | 18:37 |
| morgan | jamielennox: infra supports multi-node | 18:37 |
| shaleh | when i was testing this I used some ansible to manipulate the N devstacks once they were up into being federated | 18:37 |
| ayoung | So....theoretically, could an application running in a VM inside of Nova accpet the SAML assertion from Keystone? | 18:37 |
| dstanek | breton: yep | 18:37 |
| morgan | we could hook into the muiltinode thing | 18:37 |
| morgan | if we wanted | 18:37 |
| shaleh | bknudson's suggestion lets it all live in devstack | 18:37 |
| breton | dstanek: cool. Hope you don't mind me tackling them. | 18:38 |
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| rodrigods | ayoung, yes | 18:38 |
| ayoung | Damnit we built an IdP. | 18:38 |
| dstanek | breton: nope, not at all | 18:38 |
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| gsilvis | ayoung: yup. | 18:38 |
| jamielennox | i think for functional testing it would be easy to have a 2 keystone only env, but i like the idea of being able to test beyond just the keystone effects and proper resource federation | 18:38 |
| ayoung | I knew this was a mistake | 18:38 |
| morgan | jamielennox: ++ | 18:38 |
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| bknudson | shaleh: it makes more sense to do 2 devstack vms if you want to expand this beyond keystone (e.g. image federation) | 18:38 |
| dstanek | i would rather, but get it all setup in devstack as it would be much easier and i think hits all the code paths | 18:38 |
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| breton | i still don't understand why we want 2 keystones | 18:38 |
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| shaleh | bknudson: tree | 18:38 |
| shaleh | true | 18:38 |
| breton | why not use the same keystone? | 18:38 |
| shaleh | bah | 18:38 |
| shaleh | breton: better insurance we are not lying to ourselves, right? | 18:39 |
| dstanek | the only reason not to do that would be to test against a specific IdP. | 18:39 |
| gsilvis | bknudson: exactly---we want to build resource federation tests on top of this | 18:39 |
| ayoung | breton, the second Keystone consumes the SAML generated by the first. We need to test that code path | 18:39 |
| shaleh | Functional should be a pretty real test | 18:39 |
| rodrigods | breton, like bknudson just said | 18:39 |
| jamielennox | you could loop it, but it's not a realistic functional test | 18:39 |
| rodrigods | the idp can be keytone... or not | 18:39 |
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| breton | Keystones don't consume SAML. Apache does. | 18:39 |
| * topol o/ better late than never | 18:40 | |
| dstanek | breton: .... for now ... | 18:40 |
| breton | dstanek: oh gawd | 18:40 |
| dstanek | ;-) | 18:40 |
| lbragstad | lol | 18:40 |
| rodrigods | i think we need to sync the efforts | 18:40 |
| amakarov | dstanek, are there plans to implement own shibboleth or something? | 18:40 |
| knikolla | as gsilvis said, this would allow as to test resource federation using k2k between two different devstack. | 18:40 |
| rodrigods | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Keystone-Federation-Testing | 18:40 |
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| knikolla | us* | 18:40 |
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| dstanek | amakarov: i am working on a POC to have keystone deal with the SAML bits | 18:41 |
| gyee | can we call "k2k" irregular federation? | 18:41 |
| gyee | :-) | 18:41 |
| breton | dstanek: but why? | 18:41 |
| stevemar | gyee: not so much :) | 18:41 |
| dstanek | amakarov: to support dynamic configuration among other things | 18:41 |
| lbragstad | it would make federation easier for ops | 18:41 |
| jamielennox | i would agree - the point here was to not build a full SAML parser into keystone | 18:42 |
| gyee | dstanek, yeah, PKI tokens :-) | 18:42 |
| amakarov | dstanek, cool. why have you chosen saml then? Just a preference or you compared it with oidc for ex. ? | 18:42 |
| gsilvis | dstanek: hm, the dynamic configuration is an interesting point | 18:42 |
| amakarov | jamielennox, ++ | 18:42 |
| ayoung | we should actually test both | 18:42 |
| dstanek | amakarov: i believe that it fits the Rackspace usecase | 18:42 |
| gsilvis | dstanek: though I definitely agree with jamielennox here too | 18:42 |
| ayoung | But K2K can't produce OpenIDC | 18:43 |
| ayoung | only SAML now | 18:43 |
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| morgan | correct | 18:43 |
| amakarov | jamielennox, we need an army to implement all of its bells and whistles! | 18:43 |
| bknudson | so was the plan to have a job in keystone for the multinode k2k test run? | 18:43 |
| jamielennox | also mod_shib is crazy in what it will do without an apache reboot | 18:43 |
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| ayoung | gyee, PKI tokens were written with this in mind, but let's let that go. | 18:43 |
| gsilvis | bknudson: yes | 18:43 |
| dstanek | gsilvis: jamielennox: fair point, but i'm actually not building the SAML parsing myself - it already exists | 18:43 |
| bknudson | gsilvis: no complaints from me. | 18:43 |
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| ayoung | jamielennox, craazy in a good or bad wy? | 18:43 |
| gyee | ayoung, oh I agree, PKI token is a "signed document" like SAML2 | 18:43 |
| ayoung | gyee, "was" | 18:44 |
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| ayoung | lets put itin the past tense. | 18:44 |
| gsilvis | gyee: has anyone ever suggested saml2 tokens | 18:44 |
| stevemar | dstanek: why not just use the plugins? | 18:44 |
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| jamielennox | ayoung: i'm undecided - but crazy | 18:44 |
| morgan | ayoung: it can do interesting things if configured right w/o a restart | 18:44 |
| amakarov | ayoung, gyee necromancy, hm? ;) | 18:44 |
| dstanek | stevemar: like mod_shib? | 18:44 |
| stevemar | dstanek: y | 18:44 |
| dstanek | stevemar: you have to restart apache for most changes | 18:44 |
| gyee | amakarov, I am being fair here | 18:44 |
| lbragstad | every time you add an idp you have to kick apache | 18:44 |
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| dstanek | stevemar: and you have to manage config files instead or using an API | 18:44 |
| morgan | dstanek: restart... graceful... | 18:45 |
| ayoung | I think that Apache can do a kill -1 type thing, and reread its config, no need to dump sessions | 18:45 |
| morgan | dstanek: potato potato | 18:45 |
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| jamielennox | so are we still talking k2k here? how many times are we adding this? | 18:45 |
| breton | how often does one add idps? | 18:45 |
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| morgan | ayoung: graceful - process current requests, new requests go to new workers with new things | 18:45 |
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| stevemar | dstanek: you're not wrong | 18:45 |
| dstanek | my vision is to build it as something that can sit outside of keystone's core code - so even if nobody else liked it we could still doit | 18:45 |
| gsilvis | jamielennox: well I'd like to... | 18:45 |
| lbragstad | breton depends on who you are | 18:45 |
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| ayoung | Have a related conversation on hold with #puppet-openstack about setting up Federation | 18:46 |
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| jamielennox | dstanek: and it's crypto so you want it to be fast - so an apache plugin? | 18:46 |
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| morgan | jamielennox: or something not pure cpython | 18:46 |
| amakarov | morgan, restarting apache... as for me is like buing a new car once it out of fuel | 18:46 |
| breton | lbragstad: i don't know. The guy who usually adds idp. | 18:46 |
| amakarov | s/buing/buying/ | 18:47 |
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| morgan | amakarov: graceful reload, it's what it's there for | 18:47 |
| lbragstad | breton well - public clouds might add idps a lot more than a private deployment | 18:47 |
| dstanek | jamielennox: if your using separate processes in apache then crypto is find in Python since it's in C anyway. it's when you use threading that it's a problem. | 18:47 |
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| gsilvis | lbragstad: I could definitely imagine adding idps all the time in our usecase | 18:47 |
| amakarov | morgan, not long ago wa had an issue with mod_wsgi desagree with graceful reloads | 18:47 |
| shaleh | lbragstad: resource federation also opens up the possibility of a much more dynamic setup | 18:47 |
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| morgan | amakarov: use uwsgi and mod_proxy_uwsgi ;) [actually a better setup for that reason] | 18:48 |
| dstanek | i think i side tracked us too much. | 18:48 |
| morgan | amakarov: separate convo though | 18:48 |
| bknudson | tornado drill... I should work from home. | 18:48 |
| morgan | amakarov: stay on federatio | 18:48 |
| amakarov | ack | 18:48 |
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| morgan | amakarov: :) | 18:48 |
| rodrigods | so... who is interested in having a CI for federation | 18:49 |
| rodrigods | join the etherpad | 18:49 |
| morgan | rodrigods: i think everyone is interested ;) | 18:49 |
| rodrigods | morgan, awesome | 18:49 |
| stevemar | rodrigods: link? | 18:49 |
| ayoung | rodrigods, would K2K be sufficient for SAML? | 18:49 |
| * morgan waits for open discussion has something. | 18:49 | |
| ayoung | testing, that is? | 18:49 |
| rodrigods | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Keystone-Federation-Testing | 18:49 |
| morgan | ayoung: it should be. | 18:49 |
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| rodrigods | ayoung, it would | 18:50 |
| stevemar | ty | 18:50 |
| amakarov | rodrigods, I'd start with testing on a single keystone and split it afterwards when you have tests to run in the new environment | 18:50 |
| stevemar | morgan: how many minutes you need? | 18:50 |
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| gsilvis | can someone link the etherpad in the meeting summary? (I don't know how that sort of thing works) | 18:50 |
| morgan | stevemar: 5 ish | 18:50 |
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| stevemar | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Keystone-Federation-Testing | 18:50 |
| morgan | stevemar: will be quick. | 18:50 |
| rodrigods | amakarov, put that idea there | 18:50 |
| gsilvis | stevemar: thanks | 18:50 |
| rodrigods | so we can discuss and vote, also i'm not complete aware of all the needed steps | 18:51 |
| stevemar | next topic for now, edit the etherpad for federation functional tests | 18:51 |
| rodrigods | where to send changes to have this kind of deployment and so on | 18:51 |
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| rodrigods | stevemar, ++ | 18:51 |
| gyee | vote for who? | 18:51 |
| ayoung | Pedro | 18:51 |
| stevemar | #topic morgan wanted 5 minutes | 18:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "morgan wanted 5 minutes (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:51 | |
| ayoung | Vote for PEDRO! | 18:51 |
| stevemar | lol nice one ayoung | 18:51 |
| rodrigods | lol | 18:51 |
| morgan | Keystone Midcyle | 18:51 |
| ayoung | PLease say Boston | 18:51 |
| morgan | i'm volunteering to help chase down venue in the bay area | 18:51 |
| morgan | sorry ayoung | 18:52 |
| ayoung | Dagnabit | 18:52 |
| shaleh | we already did Boston :-) | 18:52 |
| gyee | bay area sounds great | 18:52 |
| morgan | this is to change up the venue to a location we haven't been and switch coasts | 18:52 |
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| gsilvis | shaleh: is once really enough, when it's boston? | 18:52 |
| morgan | also summer in the bay is kindof awesome | 18:52 |
| shaleh | gyee: he means Vancouver Bay right? | 18:52 |
| morgan | shaleh: lol | 18:52 |
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| ayoung | I vote for the Hotel Formerly named the Ahawannee | 18:52 |
| lbragstad | those lobster rolls were top notch btw... | 18:53 |
| gyee | shaleh, love that one too | 18:53 |
| shaleh | ayoung: not exactly Bay Area but close | 18:53 |
| morgan | anyway, i'll start working on some details for it this week so we can roll into the summit with planning | 18:53 |
| ayoung | shaleh, If I'm flying to California.... | 18:53 |
| shaleh | ayoung: 2 hour drive when there is no traffic | 18:53 |
| morgan | i figure it's not a hard sell to get people to fly to California / SF [everyone has offices in that area] | 18:53 |
| ayoung | shaleh, thre 3.5 | 18:53 |
| ayoung | ttry | 18:53 |
| ayoung | try | 18:53 |
| shaleh | ayoung: maybe how you drive :-) | 18:53 |
| amakarov | morgan, if you change coasts it can be Vladivostok :) | 18:54 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: ++ | 18:54 |
| ayoung | shaleh, I did it most weekends for a decade | 18:54 |
| morgan | ayoung: i would have voted for yosemite | 18:54 |
| morgan | ayoung: but.. i think nothing would get done | 18:54 |
| jamielennox | amakarov: i offer sydney each time, nothign... | 18:54 |
| ayoung | morgan, lots would get done | 18:54 |
| morgan | ayoung: just not code. | 18:54 |
| ayoung | Priorities | 18:54 |
| anteaya | jamielennox: sydney! | 18:54 |
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| stevemar | jamielennox: hehe | 18:54 |
| lbragstad | ayoung ++ | 18:54 |
| shaleh | samueldmq: wanted it down his way. But you know, Olympics..... | 18:54 |
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| anteaya | Toronto | 18:54 |
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| ayoung | Push for Summit in Sydney afte Barthelona | 18:54 |
| samueldmq | shaleh: :-( | 18:54 |
| stevemar | anteaya ++ | 18:54 |
| amakarov | btw, why not Sidney? | 18:54 |
| samueldmq | shaleh: maybe next year | 18:54 |
| topol | what dates were we looking at for the midcycle? | 18:55 |
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| morgan | as a fallback would be Tronto if the bay area can't happen this time around | 18:55 |
| ayoung | Boston | 18:55 |
| morgan | topol: haven't looked at the scheudle | 18:55 |
| shaleh | late June right? | 18:55 |
| morgan | topol: will know more later this week, but it'll prob be june | 18:55 |
| samueldmq | FYI 5 mins left | 18:55 |
| ayoung | Late July I think | 18:55 |
| stevemar | topol: releases.openstack.org/newton/schedule.html late june or early july | 18:55 |
| jamielennox | amakarov: because enough people couldn't justify the flight to come | 18:55 |
| morgan | shaleh: typically. | 18:55 |
| topol | morgan so its gonna be city by the bay? Awesome | 18:55 |
| morgan | topol: that is what i want :) | 18:55 |
| gsilvis | ayoung: if only the midcycle were in a month with good weather in boston | 18:55 |
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| ayoung | gsilvis, is there such a month? | 18:56 |
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| lbragstad | 4 minutes | 18:56 |
| morgan | i'll send ML emails and such later this week | 18:56 |
| knikolla | ayoung, we can lie and say they all are. | 18:56 |
| * morgan is done. | 18:56 | |
| gsilvis | ayoung: ... well there's a week, sometimes, does that count? | 18:56 |
| topol | legal seafood in boston or fishermans warf in SF. Its a win win | 18:56 |
| stevemar | gsilvis: thats why i'm gunning for rochestor and toronto :P | 18:56 |
| ayoung | topol, not.even.close. | 18:56 |
| jamielennox | topol: where is this illegal seafood you eat? | 18:56 |
| ayoung | But there is much good food in SF | 18:56 |
| morgan | topol: sourdough is better in SF though. | 18:57 |
| stevemar | jamielennox: his fish tank | 18:57 |
| morgan | ayoung: ++ tons of fantastic food | 18:57 |
| jamielennox | stevemar: that... ugh.. | 18:57 |
| ayoung | morgan, are you looking for in SF proper? | 18:57 |
| topol | ayoung. well maybe if you took me to the good seafood restaurant in boston I could agree | 18:57 |
| jamielennox | not so much illegal as unhygenic | 18:57 |
| gyee | topol ate nemo? | 18:57 |
| ayoung | Cuz South Bay is not worth the trip. | 18:57 |
| shaleh | ayoung: nah, let's do something horrible like milptas | 18:57 |
| stevemar | gyee: and dory | 18:57 |
| ayoung | Vacaville | 18:57 |
| breton | lets do in Europe | 18:57 |
| * gyee cries | 18:57 | |
| breton | UK? | 18:57 |
| shaleh | ayoung: eeewww in June :-) | 18:57 |
| ayoung | Fremont! | 18:58 |
| shaleh | ayoung: Fremont is just Milpitas north | 18:58 |
| morgan | brazil! | 18:58 |
| amakarov | breton, spb? :) | 18:58 |
| jamielennox | we are getting to the point where we have a decent contingent of non-US people who would attend\ | 18:58 |
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| morgan | we can all visit samueldmq | 18:58 |
| ayoung | Dublin. Lunch at Gyee's | 18:58 |
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| stevemar | i imagine we'll hash this all out at the summit | 18:58 |
| shaleh | ayoung: sounds good. His Dad rocks the kitchen. | 18:58 |
| gyee | ayoung, sounds good | 18:58 |
| morgan | jamielennox: i think midcycles are going to be a different thing post austin. | 18:59 |
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| ayoung | shaleh, and we would be ahead of the City traffic headed out 120 to Yose | 18:59 |
| stevemar | whoever is willing to organize it has my vote | 18:59 |
| amakarov | ayoung, good idea! | 18:59 |
| morgan | jamielennox: and it'll make it easier [i hope] | 18:59 |
| anteaya | post barcelona | 18:59 |
| jamielennox | morgan: waiting to see how that one plays out | 18:59 |
| shaleh | ayoung: ++++++++.... | 18:59 |
| morgan | anteaya: ++ | 18:59 |
| ayoung | I mean Dublin, CA | 18:59 |
| lbragstad | oh... I was totally fore ireland | 18:59 |
| morgan | anyway, i'll start organizing this for this cycle. | 18:59 |
| stevemar | lets give infra time to assemble | 18:59 |
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| amakarov | ayoung, LOL | 18:59 |
| morgan | cheers. | 18:59 |
| stevemar | #endmeeting | 18:59 |
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| jamielennox | ayoung: oooo, i was thinking he hid that accent really well | 18:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 12 18:59:37 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-04-12-18.00.html | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-04-12-18.00.txt | 18:59 |
| *** shaleh has left #openstack-meeting | 18:59 | |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-04-12-18.00.log.html | 18:59 |
| samueldmq | thanks all | 18:59 |
| anteaya | thanks keystone folks | 18:59 |
| * stevemar salutes anteaya | 18:59 | |
| morgan | fungi: keystone totally didn't go overtime :P | 18:59 |
| samueldmq | anteaya: :) | 19:00 |
| morgan | seconds to spare! | 19:00 |
| anteaya | :) | 19:00 |
| fungi | indeed! | 19:00 |
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| stevemar | morgan: i've been pretty good about that! | 19:00 |
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| * mordred hands stevemar a cookie | 19:00 | |
| fungi | infra team, assemble! | 19:00 |
| jamielennox | stevemar: ruining it now though | 19:00 |
| nibalizer | o/ | 19:00 |
| Zara | o/ | 19:00 |
| SotK | o/ | 19:00 |
| mordred | o/ | 19:00 |
| crinkle | o/ | 19:00 |
| stevemar | oo.... cookie | 19:00 |
| pleia2 | o/ | 19:00 |
| morgan | stevemar: oo peice of candy | 19:00 |
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| jeblair | howdy | 19:00 |
| morgan | o\ | 19:00 |
| Shrews | hola | 19:01 |
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| *** tholtzen has left #openstack-meeting | 19:01 | |
| Clint | o/ | 19:01 |
| docaedo | "infra team, assemble!" is, hands down, the best way to start a meeting | 19:01 |
| clarkb | hello | 19:01 |
| anteaya | especially for the infra team | 19:01 |
| fungi | i have topics proposed by AJaeger, dmsimard and anteaya | 19:01 |
| cbader | hello | 19:01 |
| anteaya | I am here | 19:01 |
| eil397 | o/ | 19:01 |
| ianw | o/ | 19:01 |
| yolanda | o/ | 19:01 |
| fungi | and want to try to get through this fast enough to save 20-30 minutes for talking about design summit planning | 19:01 |
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| fungi | #startmeeting infra | 19:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 12 19:02:10 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:02 |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:02 |
| fungi | #topic Announcements | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| fungi | #info Tomorrow (April 13th) the Infra team will hold a bug day | 19:02 |
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| fungi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2016-April/004124.html April 13th Bug Day Announcement | 19:02 |
| * nibalizer hands out hammers | 19:02 | |
| *** tholtzen_ has left #openstack-meeting | 19:02 | |
| fungi | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| fungi | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-04-05-19.02.html | 19:02 |
| fungi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2016-April/004124.html pleia2 to announce small-scale/impromptu infra bug squash on apr 13 | 19:02 |
| bkero | o/ | 19:02 |
| fungi | thanks for organizing that, pleia2! | 19:03 |
| Zara | \o/ | 19:03 |
| fungi | #topic Specs approval | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| nibalizer | yes thanks | 19:03 |
| fungi | none new this week | 19:03 |
| fungi | #topic Priority Efforts | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| fungi | no critical/blocking updates this week, focus is mostly on post-release activities and upcoming summit | 19:03 |
| AJaeger | o/ | 19:03 |
| fungi | #topic Proposal jobs (AJaeger) | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Proposal jobs (AJaeger) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| fungi | He states: "We currently have some reviews for extra proposal jobs, what are our polices for adding them? Those run on the proposal jobs and thus we have to review for security:" | 19:03 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/301375 Implement periodic job to update Puppet OpenStack constraints | 19:03 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/267941 Update stable constraints url | 19:03 |
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| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/291514 Add periodic job to autogenerate grenade plugins list | 19:03 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/291517 Add periodic job to autogenerate tempest plugins list | 19:03 |
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| zaro | o/ | 19:04 |
| AJaeger | this is something we can also discuss in Austin if desired. | 19:04 |
| pleia2 | yeesh, Austin is coming up quick | 19:04 |
| fungi | it looks like our insistence that having jobs propose autogenerated commits back into projects being a terrible model is increasingly popular in spite our concerns | 19:04 |
| anteaya | indeed | 19:04 |
| fungi | or rather, our insistence is not doing much good | 19:04 |
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| fungi | to convince anybody else | 19:05 |
| AJaeger | I wonder what our policy should be for these. I think we merged similar jobs already - and I'd like to especially review "my" translatoion jobs with somebody, so put this on the etherpad | 19:05 |
| morgan | pleia2: ++ | 19:05 |
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| nibalizer | when files hold data and git holds the files, then something like this is the only way to modify it programatically | 19:05 |
| AJaeger | so far I've not reviewed any of these changes and will abstain reviewing... | 19:05 |
| olaph | o/ | 19:05 |
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| anteaya | I'd have more head space for this chat in austin personally | 19:05 |
| AJaeger | (abstain voting) | 19:05 |
| fungi | well, as you adeptly noted, any scripts being run on proposal.slave.openstack.org need to be closely analyzed because they could be used to expose credentials | 19:05 |
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| AJaeger | and some of these scripts are in other repositories... | 19:06 |
| fungi | and we have to make sure they don't run code from arbitrary locations | 19:06 |
| fungi | yes, especially not from other repositories | 19:06 |
| pabelanger | o/ | 19:06 |
| morgan | AJaeger: <security hat> yeah that is a bad choice it needs to be infra-controlled repo not project controlled </security hat> | 19:06 |
| jeblair | i think requiring the code to be in the project-config repo is reasonable | 19:07 |
| Clint | many things will need to be changed then | 19:07 |
| AJaeger | including requirements repo setup;) | 19:07 |
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| fungi | the credentials on that worker are... luckily not super highly sensitive since all they can do is propose changes which people might fail to look as closely at, but we should still take care not to put them at risk | 19:07 |
| jeblair | fungi: yeah, i was thinknig the same thing -- they aren't *that* interesting; otoh, they would let you propose a "translation update" to nova | 19:08 |
| jeblair | and it'd be pretty easy to slip something in there | 19:08 |
| * morgan is trying to think of a better alternative to offer folks vs many many more proposal bot things. | 19:08 | |
| fungi | backdoor^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Htranslation update to nova | 19:08 |
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| rcarrillocruz | o/ | 19:08 |
| fungi | there's the option to fan this out into multiple individual accounts so as not to cross privilege boundaries, but that's complex | 19:09 |
| jeblair | what's a grenade plugins list? | 19:09 |
| morgan | fungi: ++ at least isolated from the translations and requirements update account | 19:09 |
| jeblair | like, why is that something that needs to be kept in a git repo? | 19:09 |
| jeblair | (it sounds more like something that could be a cron job on a web server) | 19:09 |
| morgan | fungi: that have a lot of history of being safe to +2/+a with little in dpeth checking | 19:10 |
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| mtreinish | jeblair: http://docs.openstack.org/developer/devstack/plugin-registry.html for grenade | 19:10 |
| fungi | the other side of this is not exposure of creds but just the fact that this is complicated automation and it's already challenging to keep it from running haywire even when people experienced in this end of things are the ones reviewing/approving changes to it | 19:10 |
| AJaeger | mtreinish: we could generate that list also dynamically at publish time, couldn't we? | 19:10 |
| mtreinish | jeblair: it should live in tree so people can build things locally | 19:10 |
| anteaya | that is a good depiction of the other side of this | 19:11 |
| Clint | AJaeger: iirc, someone was told not to do that because the proposal bot is the openstack way of doing things | 19:11 |
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| jesusaur | o/ | 19:11 |
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| fungi | a job which could propose changes to gerrit and inadvertently (due to a misplaced while instead of a for or whatever) started shoving thousands of reviews in could do cause some major headaches | 19:12 |
| ianw | AJaeger: it walks all opentstack/* trees and takes about 20 minutes | 19:13 |
| fungi | Clint: yikes. we keep trying to tell people that's a terrible solution, it just happens to have been a tolerable fit for translations and, later, requirements synchronization | 19:13 |
| jeblair | ianw: does it use http to git.o.o? | 19:13 |
| ianw | jeblair: yes; it wasn't going to, but then the git trees aren't cached on the proposal slave | 19:13 |
| nibalizer | the app-catalog has a preiodic job that detects dead links | 19:14 |
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| Clint | fungi: i should point out that this is the first day i've heard anyone say this is a terrible solution and there is plenty of prior art | 19:14 |
| jeblair | cause that sounds like it should be about 1.2k web requests and take a couple of seconds | 19:14 |
| fungi | Clint: yep, the prior art is the pain point. i'm not sure where is best to document that these jobs are not a model of hos things should be done, but a model of how things ended up being done in a couple of very specific cases wher ethe alternatives were worse | 19:14 |
| Kiall | y | 19:15 |
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| anteaya | one of the problems with documenting how something shouldn't be done is that more folks do it the way you advise not to | 19:15 |
| anteaya | because you documented it | 19:15 |
| jeblair | we're also self-guilty -- we have a proposal job to clean up the projects.yaml | 19:15 |
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| jeblair | (which wouldn't be a problem if people didn't keep adding things to it ;) | 19:16 |
| nibalizer | fungi: ya im with Clint in this one | 19:16 |
| eil397 | antipattern attractive people | 19:17 |
| nibalizer | i've reccomended people set up periodic jobs that propose before | 19:17 |
| fungi | well, the underlying concern with the model is threefold: 1. tricky credentials handling causes us to run them in a constrained environment/conditions, 2. it's a complicated rube-goldberg-esque series of operations (moreso than our usual fare even), and 3. autogenerated content is not something you usually want in your git repositories | 19:17 |
| anteaya | all that job does is remove the source: line from gerrit/projects.yaml, I don't think it is a very important job | 19:17 |
| nibalizer | i thought this is basically the only way to do some of this stuff | 19:17 |
| pabelanger | Should also note, EmilienM has a patch up also adding code to proposal bot too for puppet. | 19:17 |
| bkero | fungi: it could be worse if it were removed from the repositories (like requirements.txt) only to be generated from some submodule or worse... | 19:17 |
| nibalizer | i would also say jobs that are rube goldberg stuff in our infra are prefered to random cron jobs out in the world that propose | 19:18 |
| EmilienM | pabelanger: right https://review.openstack.org/#/c/301375/ | 19:18 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: it may be the only way to automatically propose a change to a git repo -- i think the idea being expressed is that automatically generating content in a git repo is not the only way to do some higher level things. | 19:18 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: ya we put a lot of data in our git repos | 19:18 |
| nibalizer | i think you once said that when all you have is a hammer everything looks like a git repo | 19:18 |
| fungi | yeah, taking the projects.yaml cleanup job as an example, it would be better to just fix jeepyb/manage-projects to use some other mechanism than a one-time import line in an otherwise durable structured dataset | 19:18 |
| fungi | proposing changes to clean up those lines instead is a workaround | 19:19 |
| fungi | and one that causes ongoing work for people having to approve the changes from it | 19:19 |
| clarkb | its also something that is safe to leavein the file... | 19:19 |
| anteaya | or just leave the source: line there, it isn't hurting anything | 19:19 |
| clarkb | anteaya: +1 | 19:20 |
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| fungi | yep | 19:20 |
| AJaeger | fungi, it's also a santiy check that the import was done correctly - which could be done in jeepyb... | 19:20 |
| fungi | i think the only reason the desire to clean it up is there is because it confuses people into thinking it's used indefinitely and needs to be maintained | 19:20 |
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| jeblair | it's code is also in the project-config repo so isn't our biggest problem. :) | 19:20 |
| jeblair | iff we want to scale this, then i think more accounts is the best we can do. | 19:21 |
| fungi | yep, so anyway, i don't think we're going to come up with a blanket policy in the meeting today | 19:21 |
| jeblair | it's more upfront work for us, but less ongoing work. | 19:21 |
| nibalizer | ya lets chat in austin about it | 19:21 |
| fungi | but it's good to get the design concerns/constraints noted so everyone is on the same page | 19:21 |
| AJaeger | nibalizer: +1 | 19:21 |
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| jeblair | (in that we can say, sure, openstack-foo, go crazy with your creds) | 19:21 |
| jeblair | oh - idea: | 19:21 |
| fungi | rather than people getting lots of conflicting messages about this model | 19:21 |
| jeblair | pre-generate an account for every project | 19:21 |
| nibalizer | so to AJaeger's point, do we decline to merge that stuff until we have consensus in austin? | 19:22 |
| pabelanger | fungi: +1 | 19:22 |
| jeblair | so we don't need to spend any time doing this one-by-one | 19:22 |
| cody-somerville | \o_ | 19:22 |
| jeblair | we can automate the whole account creation/adding creds to puppet | 19:22 |
| jeblair | we still have the slave issue, at least until zuulv3 | 19:22 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: ya | 19:22 |
| nibalizer | slave per project! | 19:22 |
| fungi | jeblair: interesting idea, though yeah we'd need multiple workers for them | 19:22 |
| fungi | so zuul v3 | 19:23 |
| fungi | okay, any last minute thoughts on this other than people can try to come up with solutions to the stated issues and/or discuss at the summit? | 19:23 |
| fungi | moving on! | 19:23 |
| fungi | #topic Virtual Machines are provided with inconsistent swap configuration (dmsimard) | 19:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Virtual Machines are provided with inconsistent swap configuration (dmsimard) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:24 | |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/300122 Add fix_disk_layout script and builder | 19:24 |
| fungi | dmsimard doesn't seem to be around | 19:24 |
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| EmilienM | I can call him | 19:24 |
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| ianw | fwiw, i'm mostly ok with it, just wants a better name | 19:24 |
| fungi | anybody happen to know what he wanted to discuss regarding this? ianw and pabelanger seem to have reviewed the linked change | 19:24 |
| dmsimard | o/ | 19:25 |
| pleia2 | ugh, getting memory right on these seems to be a neverending battle | 19:25 |
| pabelanger | ah, there we go | 19:25 |
| dmsimard | I have to leave in literally 2 minutes to pick up kid at school | 19:25 |
| clarkb | fungi jobs that dont use d-g have swap.issues too | 19:25 |
| jeblair | i support the idea that this should run on all images rather than just inside devstack-gate | 19:25 |
| clarkb | goal is toaddress across the board | 19:25 |
| fungi | yep, this is true | 19:25 |
| pleia2 | jeblair: ++ | 19:25 |
| pabelanger | I think we just wanted to see if it was a dib element or JJB template | 19:26 |
| fungi | i have felt for a while that having a macro to add swap for a job is a good thing, and that we should not set up swap unless it's requested by a job | 19:26 |
| pabelanger | for more then devstack jobs | 19:26 |
| clarkb | I think it is a slave script that jobs can call | 19:26 |
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| dmsimard | I see value is taking that out of devstack-gate and into a more generic approach -- IMO all VMs should be provided equal | 19:26 |
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| fungi | the flip side, is there any benefit _outside_ the ci to having the setup tooling where it is now? | 19:26 |
| fungi | for example, do people run devstack-gate and expect it to set up their swap? possibly today, yes | 19:27 |
| jeblair | i don't see how we could do this in dib, without some sort of boot script which doesn't sound great. | 19:27 |
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| bkero | Isn't the functionality already there for boot scripts? | 19:27 |
| dmsimard | ianw was suggesting a first boot service script in dib, yes. | 19:27 |
| clarkb | bkero no | 19:27 |
| pabelanger | jeblair: I was thinking, create the swap file, then add something to crontab on @reboot to mount the swap | 19:27 |
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| clarkb | pabelanger this is what fstab is for | 19:28 |
| fungi | bkero: if we don't know in advance whether the job will need swap, then we can't predict whether to set it up on the worker at build/boot anyway | 19:28 |
| dmsimard | I have to step out to pick up my kid, sorry, brb. Will read backlog. | 19:28 |
| mordred | we could also start making full disk images complete with partition tables | 19:28 |
| pabelanger | everybody seems onboard with JJB | 19:28 |
| jeblair | if folks want it as a boot script -- ok -- but that sounds unreasonably difficult to maintain. | 19:28 |
| fungi | dmsimard: thanks for bringing it up | 19:28 |
| anteaya | dmsimard: travel safely | 19:28 |
| pabelanger | clarkb: Right | 19:28 |
| clarkb | the real issue here is every cloud is different | 19:28 |
| clarkb | some have swap some dont and they come in dofferent sizea | 19:29 |
| bkero | clarkb: some of the elements do it, but maybe there isn't a common method | 19:29 |
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| bkero | for example growroot | 19:29 |
| jeblair | (we have no choice with ip addresses, so we had no other choice than the 3 months we spent getting glean right) | 19:29 |
| ianw | yeah, writing something generic in boot is going to end up not very generic and a bear to maintain i feel | 19:29 |
| jeblair | (but if we do this with swap, we'll spend just as long getting it right and waiting for images to build after touching each of the edge cases) | 19:29 |
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| pabelanger | true | 19:30 |
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| jeblair | mordred: is this an option? | 19:30 |
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| clarkb | I would prefer jobs that need swap declare so | 19:30 |
| clarkb | just like with package deps | 19:30 |
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| fungi | also swap is something that _can_ be setup at runtime without needing to reboot, and shouldn't add significant delays (in theory) | 19:30 |
| mordred | jeblair: yes, I believe so | 19:30 |
| mordred | SpamapS: ^^ | 19:30 |
| clarkb | and once we are on ext4 again the cost is basically zero | 19:30 |
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| mordred | SpamapS: dib can make images with partition tables, right? can those be booted normally by nova? | 19:30 |
| clarkb | then we make those jobs stop needing swap | 19:30 |
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| clarkb | and openstack is better | 19:31 |
| jeblair | i have a slight preference for having all nodes have a sensible swap configuration all the time, because i don't believe in servers without swap. but i don't object to the jjb macros. | 19:31 |
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| pabelanger | Seems starting with JJB everybody can get onboard with | 19:32 |
| clarkb | right now the only real cost involved in this is dd'ing 8GBof zeros | 19:32 |
| clarkb | get rid of xfs and then that goes away | 19:32 |
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| fungi | my main concern is that we have a tradeoff on clouds with small rootfs and no additional ephemeral volume such that swap eats into already tight available filesystem space even for jobs which may need disk but don't come anywhere near filling up available ram | 19:32 |
| clarkb | jeblair I would be fine with that too | 19:33 |
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| fungi | though i suppose an alternative would be to invert the logic and have a macro that dows a swapoff -a and rm /swapfile or whatever before starting the job | 19:33 |
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| mordred | fungi: we could also investigate boot-from-volume on small-disk clouds | 19:34 |
| mordred | not saying it's a good idea | 19:34 |
| mordred | but maybe it's an option that's available that we have not explored? | 19:34 |
| fungi | or just to declare that jobs should not expect to have more than (lowest common denominator rootfs minus default swapfile) amount of available space to use | 19:34 |
| mordred | fungi: s/or/and/ | 19:34 |
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| mordred | we should at the very least publish the size | 19:35 |
| clarkb | fungi less git cache less rootfs its something like 60GB available but easy to co fi | 19:35 |
| fungi | so anyway, in the short term, i don't think we have any significant concerns over 300122 (moving the swap creation script out of devstack-gate), but some think that it could be improved further? | 19:35 |
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| clarkb | *confirm | 19:35 |
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| fungi | more specifically, moving the swap creation script out of devstack-gate and into a jjb macro/slave script | 19:36 |
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| fungi | bikeshed over giving it a better name aside | 19:36 |
| ianw | that doesn't really move it out of devstack-gate -- it just makes it available to !devstack-gate | 19:36 |
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| fungi | well, yes this step is duplicating it | 19:36 |
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| fungi | in theory next patch would be to add that macro to all d-g based jobs and then patch after that could delete it from d-g | 19:37 |
| fungi | and we still have one more (hopefully quick) topic to go before we talk about summit planning | 19:37 |
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| ianw | sure. it would be nice to hook it into the reproduce.sh script too | 19:37 |
| anteaya | hopefully | 19:38 |
| fungi | all good suggestions for the review | 19:38 |
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| fungi | but as far as the general direction sounds like this is a fine path for now? | 19:38 |
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| fungi | i'm taking further silence as tacit agreement | 19:38 |
| fungi | #topic timing issues with the ansible rename patch (anteaya) | 19:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "timing issues with the ansible rename patch (anteaya) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:39 | |
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| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/299192 Rename openstack-ansible-ironic to openstack-ansible-os_ironic | 19:39 |
| anteaya | thanks | 19:39 |
| fungi | they're in a hurry because they'd like it renamed before they release? | 19:39 |
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| anteaya | so I was looking at this rename patch and the commit message had said they want it renamed before they ta | 19:39 |
| fungi | anyone around to accommodate a rename this weekend? | 19:39 |
| anteaya | I didn't know until yesterday they want to tag friday or next week | 19:40 |
| fungi | on an unrelated note, i'll be entirely afk friday through sunday (mini-vacation to one of the more remote islands here) | 19:40 |
| clarkb | not me (I am swamped with !work currently) | 19:40 |
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| anteaya | fungi: good for you | 19:40 |
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| anteaya | I can help prep if someone is available to do the root work and the reindex which we now know takes 4 hours | 19:40 |
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| anteaya | if we don't rename they are goind to do documentation gymnastics on github as a work around | 19:41 |
| anteaya | which I don't entirely understand | 19:41 |
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| fungi | yeah, that offline reindex is a killer, and i guess the online reindex doesn't do what we need | 19:41 |
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| anteaya | it didn't last time we tried no | 19:41 |
| jeblair | can we downgrade to 2.8? ;) | 19:41 |
| anteaya | :) | 19:41 |
| anteaya | might be faster than reindexing | 19:42 |
| anteaya | so that's the item, thanks for your time | 19:42 |
| fungi | maybe bigger gerrit server will reindex faster | 19:42 |
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| fungi | okay, sounds like we don't have any takers to for a last-minute rename this weekend | 19:42 |
| anteaya | thank you | 19:42 |
| SpamapS | Sorry for the late response. Yes dib can make partitioned images. I don't know, however, if clouds will boot them without extra finagling | 19:42 |
| fungi | #info No Infra root sysadmins are available to volunteer for a Gerrit project rename maintenance/outage on short notice prior to the summit | 19:43 |
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| fungi | #topic Design summit session planning | 19:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Design summit session planning (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:43 | |
| fungi | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/infra-newton-summit-planning Infra Newton Summit Planning | 19:43 |
| fungi | #link https://www.openstack.org/summit/austin-2016/summit-schedule/global-search?t=Infrastructure: Infra Newton Summit Schedule | 19:43 |
| fungi | we have the following workrooms proposed (note we have 2 slots on wednesday, and a pair back to back on thursday which could accommodate a double-length working session): | 19:43 |
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| fungi | NA bug fixes (clarkb) | 19:44 |
| fungi | oh, that's not a title ;) | 19:44 |
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| pleia2 | hehe | 19:44 |
| fungi | Make ansible puppet more robust (clarkb) | 19:44 |
| jeblair | i am in favor of "not applicable bug fixes" | 19:44 |
| anteaya | ha ha ha | 19:44 |
| Zara | xD | 19:44 |
| fungi | A new landing page for contributors (ttx/thingee) | 19:44 |
| clarkb | ya can add the ssh problems to the ansible robjstness list | 19:45 |
| fungi | Fix puppet apply test not using the repo local hiera file (clarkb) | 19:45 |
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| fungi | Review of jobs on proposal slaves (AJaeger) | 19:45 |
| clarkb | nibalizer: ^ are you already working that? | 19:45 |
| anteaya | fungi: that is 4 right? | 19:45 |
| clarkb | the apply test may not be needed if nibalizer has it sorted | 19:45 |
| nibalizer | clarkb: ya it works except for f23/puppet 4 | 19:45 |
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| anteaya | 4 slots, 4 proposals? | 19:45 |
| fungi | someone suggested last week that mordred's "the interaction between launch-node, ansible and puppet and how group membership works" might be a fit for a work session? | 19:46 |
| fungi | instead of a fishbowl? | 19:46 |
| anteaya | jeblair: suggested that | 19:46 |
| nibalizer | fungi: i doubt that? | 19:46 |
| ttx | we can definitely discuss the landing page somewhere else if you don't have room for that. Just want to make sure we do it right, but we could take that off-DS | 19:46 |
| rcarrillocruz | i think that fits a hacking session, so my vote on making it work session... | 19:46 |
| mordred | fungi: yes please | 19:46 |
| ttx | but if you do have room, why not take advantage of being there to make progress | 19:46 |
| anteaya | rcarrillocruz: which one? | 19:46 |
| rcarrillocruz | mordred's one | 19:46 |
| fungi | ttx: i'd show up for the new contributor landing page session whether it's infra or not | 19:46 |
| mordred | I think there are two sides | 19:46 |
| nibalizer | it also sounds like we should have a fishbowl on periodic jobs? | 19:47 |
| anteaya | ttx: I like your proposal | 19:47 |
| mordred | there is work to be done on the above ansible/puppet/group topic | 19:47 |
| jeblair | ttx: ++ i will be happy to discuss that with you in Conference Room Pub | 19:47 |
| mordred | but also I'm pretty sure almost nobody in infra is on the _same_ page as far as how it currently works or should work | 19:47 |
| mordred | so some discussion is worthwhile I think | 19:47 |
| ttx | or Friday contributor meetup | 19:47 |
| nibalizer | mordred: ya | 19:47 |
| fungi | i've put the schedule summary times/locations at the top of the etherpad too, which may help us decide what ordering could work | 19:47 |
| anteaya | mordred: I'm not on a page with anyone else on that topic, and would like to be | 19:47 |
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| mordred | anteaya: ++ | 19:47 |
| fungi | there are two fishbowls on wednesday, one of which is even before the work sessions that day, but both of which are before the work sessions on thursday | 19:48 |
| anteaya | fungi: um, with 12 minutes left can you offer us some suggestions? | 19:48 |
| mordred | fungi: should that topic get a fishbowl, I will volunteer to run it | 19:48 |
| fungi | so if we did got for a fishbowl/work session split on something, that would be the ones to aim for | 19:48 |
| rcarrillocruz | mordred: i'd like to know what those 'pages' are, maybe worth opening a mail thread upfront before summit? | 19:48 |
| fungi | er, did go for | 19:48 |
| mordred | rcarrillocruz: bah. that involves writing email | 19:48 |
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| mordred | rcarrillocruz: just kidding, it's a great idea | 19:49 |
| fungi | we also have the option of doing three work session topics and making the back-to-back sessions on thursday a double-length session if one of these is a better fit for a long session and another is unpopular | 19:49 |
| rcarrillocruz | mordred: i'm open to discuss that pre-work session with some beers, that works too :P | 19:49 |
| mordred | :) | 19:49 |
| fungi | i'm leaning toward taking the four work sessions as proposed, to anteaya's point | 19:50 |
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| fungi | the number seems convenient, after all | 19:50 |
| fungi | anyone feel differently? | 19:50 |
| nibalizer | fungi: though the third one should be fixed beofre the summit | 19:50 |
| fungi | puppet apply local hiera repo? | 19:51 |
| nibalizer | i mean i have that in review the only thing needed is for pabelanger and to discuss f23 and why it is different | 19:51 |
| anteaya | as for fishbowls I think we should talk about: openstackid, the wiki, task tracker and xenial/operating system upgrades | 19:51 |
| fungi | maybe let's scratch that one from the list then | 19:51 |
| nibalizer | maybe change it to be about periodic/proposals ? | 19:51 |
| fungi | it doesn't sound like the puppet apply testing item would have enough work for a room full of people | 19:51 |
| anteaya | and have an active friday meetup for those sessions that didn't get a fishbowl | 19:51 |
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| nibalizer | could also leave it untopic'd and let people work on what they want | 19:52 |
| fungi | nibalizer: well, they can do that regardless. there will be breakout areas if a topic we're hosting is uninteresting | 19:52 |
| fungi | so probably better to have _some_ theme | 19:52 |
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| pabelanger | happy to help | 19:53 |
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| fungi | and proposal/periodic job stuff is already one of the proposed 4 | 19:53 |
| jeblair | you can move mordred's ansible thing into that spot. | 19:53 |
| nibalizer | oh right, reading | 19:53 |
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| jeblair | and you can back-to-back it with clarkb's ansible thing :) | 19:53 |
| fungi | indeed we can | 19:53 |
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| nibalizer | ok | 19:54 |
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| fungi | that leaves fishbowls as follows: trusty/xenial split for jobs, something about CICD i don't grok, task tracking, jjb 2.x, authentication service, and wiki upgrade | 19:55 |
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| jeblair | fungi: the cicd has been removed by the author i think | 19:55 |
| fungi | looks like the cicd thing was maybe scratched off the list by the proposer? | 19:55 |
| fungi | yeah | 19:55 |
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| anteaya | fungi: the second one doesn't have a chair it was offered by someone who won't be in attendance | 19:55 |
| jeblair | just not with actual removing having happened :) | 19:55 |
| anteaya | yeah I think we can scratch the second item | 19:55 |
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| fungi | so we have 5 options with 3 slots, and the two that remain can as anteaya said be good items for sprint breakout | 19:56 |
| eil397 | I can remove in a sec | 19:56 |
| fungi | eil397: it's cool, we figured it out ;_ | 19:56 |
| fungi | ;) | 19:56 |
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| anteaya | eil397: I think it is a good idea for a different venue | 19:56 |
| anteaya | eil397: we can discuss more later in channel perhaps | 19:56 |
| eil397 | thanks : - ) | 19:56 |
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| eil397 | of course | 19:56 |
| anteaya | can we take the extra fishbowl? | 19:57 |
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| anteaya | that would give us 4 fishbowls, right? | 19:57 |
| fungi | anteaya: i think they probably got snapped up | 19:57 |
| ttx | fungi: not really | 19:57 |
| fungi | i think i'd bump jjb 2.x, i'm on the fence between wiki and task tracking | 19:57 |
| fungi | ttx: oh? got a spare laying around? | 19:58 |
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| fungi | lying around, that is | 19:58 |
| ttx | Proposed one on the etherpad somewhere | 19:58 |
| jeblair | (NB from ttx: we can add one extra fishbowl on Thursday afternoon (conflicting with OSC) if needed) | 19:58 |
| fungi | i see, okay | 19:58 |
| ttx | 3:10pm or 4:10pm | 19:58 |
| fungi | ttx: thanks, we'll take it | 19:58 |
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| anteaya | yay | 19:58 |
| Zara | \o/ | 19:58 |
| fungi | ttx: i can work with either of those | 19:59 |
| ttx | 3:10 has OSC fishbowl and a QA workroom | 19:59 |
| fungi | though 3:10 is maybe preferred slightly | 19:59 |
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| SotK | \o/ | 19:59 |
| pleia2 | real quick, a reminder that I added a "Other sessions of interest" section at the bottom of the etherpad, our team is getting bigger and so is openstack, if there's anything outside our track we really should be aware of and may not be obvious, it may be helpful to add it there | 19:59 |
| fungi | oh, yeah those might be worse conflicts | 19:59 |
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| ttx | 4:10 has a Oslo fishbowl and a OSC workroom | 19:59 |
| fungi | pleia2: awesome--thank you! | 19:59 |
| anteaya | pleia2: thank you | 19:59 |
| fungi | ttx: let's grab the 4:10 | 19:59 |
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| anteaya | yeah 4:10 sounds better | 20:00 |
| jeblair | i think wiki and osc may not have a lot of people-overlap? | 20:00 |
| fungi | thanks everybody! i'll work up the schedule and try to arrange the least-conflicting solutions | 20:00 |
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| fungi | jeblair: yep, agreed | 20:00 |
| AJaeger | thanks ,fungi | 20:00 |
| anteaya | fungi: thank you | 20:00 |
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| fungi | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| ttx | fungi: ok, ask me again tomorrow and I'll make it happen | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 12 20:00:28 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-04-12-19.02.html | 20:00 |
| Zara | thank you! | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-04-12-19.02.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-04-12-19.02.log.html | 20:00 |
| fungi | thanks ttx, i will | 20:00 |
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| ttx | alright... anyone around for the TC meeting ? | 20:01 |
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| mestery | o/ | 20:01 |
| thingee | o/ | 20:01 |
| morgan | o/ | 20:01 |
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| * tristanC sits in the back | 20:01 | |
| ttx | annegentle, dims, flaper87, mtreinish, mordred, russellb, sdague: around ? | 20:01 |
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| russellb | hi | 20:01 |
| mtreinish | o/ | 20:01 |
| dims | pong | 20:01 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | ( johnthetubaguy & dhellmann are excused ) | 20:01 |
| dims | o/ | 20:01 |
| * edleafe wipes away his tears and takes his seat in the back of the room | 20:01 | |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:01 |
| * mestery consoles edleafe | 20:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 12 20:01:45 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:01 |
| mordred | ttx: sup? | 20:01 |
| ttx | Welcome to the Newton membership ! | 20:02 |
| * mordred looks around and is scared by all the new faces | 20:02 | |
| ttx | dims, mtreinish, morgan, thingee: welcome | 20:02 |
| agentle | mordred: they're not that new :) | 20:02 |
| ttx | This is the agenda for our first meeting: | 20:02 |
| morgan | ^_^ | 20:02 |
| dims | thanks ttx | 20:02 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:02 |
| mordred | agentle: inorite? | 20:02 |
| mtreinish | ttx: thanks | 20:02 |
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| ttx | #topic Welcome Newton TC members | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Welcome Newton TC members (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| russellb | have you told them about the initiation ritutal yet? | 20:02 |
| russellb | or is that a surprise? | 20:02 |
| ttx | surprise | 20:02 |
| thingee | mordred: you're no longer the only one sitting up front with blue hair. | 20:02 |
| ttx | * Update member roster | 20:02 |
| mordred | thingee: WOOT | 20:03 |
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| ttx | I did update voting rights in Gerrit and the -tc ML moderation bits | 20:03 |
| ttx | We just need to approve the new roster, which was +1ed by election officials | 20:03 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/303119 | 20:03 |
| mordred | thingee: the hair-posse has doubled in size (and tripled in awesome) | 20:03 |
| edleafe | no wonder jay left | 20:03 |
| ttx | if anyone else wants to boost their +2 stats before I approve | 20:03 |
| mordred | ttx: what happens if we do not approve it? | 20:03 |
| ttx | mordred: then I approve it | 20:03 |
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| morgan | ttx: hehe all about the boosting of +2 stats | 20:04 |
| russellb | we're all about gaming governance voting stats, huh? | 20:04 |
| sdague | and we kick you off the island | 20:04 |
| morgan | russellb: totally | 20:04 |
| mordred | ttx: I was wondering if it was lke the US Debt Ceiling or something | 20:04 |
| mestery | russellb: It's in our DNA | 20:04 |
| dims | :) | 20:04 |
| ttx | alright it's in | 20:04 |
| ttx | * Select chair | 20:04 |
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| ttx | The chair is responsible for making sure meetings are held (and decisions made) following our charter rules | 20:04 |
| ttx | I'll be happy to continue to serve as the guardian of the rules and meeting organizer | 20:04 |
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| agentle | hurrah ttx | 20:04 |
| ttx | If another member is interested in such duties they should file a change similar to https://review.openstack.org/303308 | 20:04 |
| sdague | ++ | 20:04 |
| morgan | ++ | 20:05 |
| mestery | yay for ttx! | 20:05 |
| jaypipes | edleafe: :) | 20:05 |
| ttx | If nobody else is interested, we should just approve https://review.openstack.org/303308 | 20:05 |
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| flaper87 | o/ | 20:05 |
| edleafe | ttx 4ever! | 20:05 |
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| ttx | Alright | 20:05 |
| dims | ++ttx | 20:05 |
| ttx | Thanks everyone ! | 20:05 |
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| ttx | * Confirmation of change approval rules & agenda buildup process | 20:05 |
| ttx | Next in the boring things we need to cover today... | 20:06 |
| * mordred puts on boring hat | 20:06 | |
| ttx | Quick reminder of the rules we followed in Mitaka to build agenda and approve governance changes | 20:06 |
| russellb | thanks for all you do, ttx. | 20:06 |
| * flaper87 steals mordred's hat | 20:06 | |
| * mordred puts on flaper87 | 20:06 | |
| ttx | Anyone can propose a change to openstack/governance or a topic to be discussed at the following TC meeting (by editing the agenda wiki page directly) | 20:06 |
| ttx | Things need to be proposed before EOD Thursday to be considered for next meeting, to give time for evaluation and/or community discussion | 20:06 |
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| ttx | For openstack/governance changes, there are 4 types. | 20:06 |
| flaper87 | mordred: mmh... you won... | 20:06 |
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| ttx | 1. typo fixes, where the content we publish is obviously wrong, and I'm authorized to fast-track them. | 20:06 |
| ttx | 2. code changes, which affect the tools or doc publication in the repository, for which we use the classic "two votes in addition to the author" code review rule | 20:07 |
| * dims pays attention | 20:07 | |
| ttx | 3. project team updates (like a new repository addition or the assertion of a tag), where as long as the PTL approves the change (+ security team for security: tags, release team for release: tags, stable team for stable: tags...), we do lazy consensus approval | 20:07 |
| ttx | which means if nobody objected after one week the change has been proposed, it is automatically approved | 20:07 |
| ttx | 4. formal votes (everything else), where we'll discuss the topic at the next TC meeting, and require motion approval | 20:07 |
| ttx | which generally means reaching 7 votes in favor (or if that fails, at least 5 votes in favor and more votes in favor than votes against after calling for a final vote) | 20:08 |
| ttx | Changes to our charter text are a special case requiring 9 votes in favor. | 20:08 |
| agentle | this is a good review :) | 20:08 |
| ttx | The idea being to limit the number of changes we actually need to discuss | 20:08 |
| ttx | We use the topic "formal-vote" for all formal votes, so you can quickly filter using | 20:08 |
| dims | makes sense | 20:08 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/governance+topic:formal-vote | 20:08 |
| ttx | In all cases the chair applies W+1 when the rules are met. Don't hesitate to call me out if you feel I'm not following those rules. | 20:09 |
| edleafe | agentle: there will be a test at the end | 20:09 |
| * mtreinish likes having less things to worry about | 20:09 | |
| ttx | Will this work for you in Newton ? Any change you'd like to make to that ? | 20:09 |
| * morgan agrees with mtreinish | 20:09 | |
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| morgan | this all sounds pretty spot on an reasonable. | 20:09 |
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| * agentle is furiously taking notes | 20:09 | |
| sdague | this all seems fine | 20:09 |
| dims | ttx : sounds good to me | 20:09 |
| mtreinish | ttx: wfm | 20:09 |
| mestery | LGTM ttx | 20:09 |
| agentle | I don't have suggestions, it's working fine to me. | 20:10 |
| ttx | Alright, we can always change that after some time, nothing is set in stone here | 20:10 |
| ttx | * Austin reminders | 20:10 |
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| * morgan puts away chisel. | 20:10 | |
| ttx | We'll have a joint Board/TC meeting, Sunday starting at 2:30pm | 20:10 |
| ttx | at the JW Marriott, Level 3, Salons G/H | 20:10 |
| mestery | ttx: Is it 2:30-5:30? | 20:11 |
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| ttx | checking | 20:11 |
| ttx | unclear... | 20:11 |
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| mestery | ttx: Ack, thanks for checking :) | 20:11 |
| mordred | Level 3 of the JW Marriott is quite nice | 20:11 |
| agentle | heh has it been on time before? | 20:11 |
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| mordred | agentle: nope | 20:12 |
| mestery | mordred: It's pretty lush indeed | 20:12 |
| ttx | No closure hour announced, but there is WOO at 6pm after that | 20:12 |
| sdague | it was on time in vancouver | 20:12 |
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| ttx | There is also optional dinner with the BoD, UC, Gold Member Reps and Foundation Staff, Saturday before the event at 7pm | 20:12 |
| ttx | note the *Saturday* | 20:12 |
| ttx | You should all have received the link to RSVP if you're around / interested. | 20:12 |
| mestery | Boo to Saturday :) | 20:12 |
| agentle | sdague: good memory. Vancouver was so awesome. | 20:12 |
| sdague | yeh, no go on the sat for me, I shall be on the plane | 20:12 |
| ttx | Please RSVP asap since they were supposed to close teh RSVP one week ago | 20:13 |
| ttx | so I have no idea how much longer they will wait | 20:13 |
| ttx | Questions on Austin ? | 20:13 |
| * morgan has RSVPd and made sure to book appropriate flight to not miss these things. | 20:13 | |
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| russellb | i most likely won't be in person this time around | 20:13 |
| anteaya | russellb: for the board meeting or for the summit? | 20:14 |
| dims | thanks ttx i won't make it to the Dinner. should be in time for the 2:30 meeting | 20:14 |
| russellb | whole thing ... having another kid due summit week | 20:14 |
| mestery | russellb: You'll be there in spirit | 20:14 |
| anteaya | russellb: congratulations | 20:14 |
| russellb | thanks | 20:14 |
| dims | russellb : congrats! | 20:14 |
| morgan | russellb: good reason to not be there, congrats! | 20:14 |
| ttx | russellb: keep us posted, with pictures | 20:14 |
| sdague | russellb: congrats, and will miss you | 20:14 |
| anteaya | russellb: healthy experience to your family | 20:14 |
| mestery | russellb: You're naming the new child Newton, right? ;) | 20:14 |
| ttx | Isaac | 20:14 |
| russellb | thanks for the kind words, everyone :) | 20:14 |
| dims | :) | 20:14 |
| mtreinish | russellb: Cognrats! heh, you know how to time things :) | 20:14 |
| dims | lol | 20:15 |
| * Rockyg thinks Austin is a great name for a kid | 20:15 | |
| ttx | Rockyg: better than Bexar for sure | 20:15 |
| russellb | ha | 20:15 |
| ttx | ok, next topic... | 20:15 |
| ttx | #topic Propose topics for Joint board / TC meeting agenda | 20:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Propose topics for Joint board / TC meeting agenda (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:15 | |
| ttx | Alan Clark reached out to me to build an agenda for the joint meeting, I replied we'd wait for the elections to conclude and for us to have our first meeting | 20:15 |
| sdague | DCO status? | 20:16 |
| ttx | So... What should we be discussing there ? | 20:16 |
| morgan | sdague: ++ | 20:16 |
| sdague | as that's still not thing yet | 20:16 |
| * mordred will give russellb a billion dollars to name his kid bexar | 20:16 | |
| ttx | yeah, that sounds like a regular | 20:16 |
| anteaya | sdague: ++ | 20:16 |
| mordred | sdague: it's blocked on us | 20:16 |
| mordred | no need to discuss with board | 20:16 |
| mestery | sdague: ++ | 20:16 |
| sdague | mordred: define "us" | 20:16 |
| anteaya | mordred: he'll need the whole billion to pay for the therapy | 20:16 |
| mordred | sdague: well, bug tracking is the main thing | 20:16 |
| ttx | mordred: we could still give an update, esepcially if that depends on "us" | 20:16 |
| russellb | mordred: i'd call you on your bluff, but that sounds like a lot of work on my part | 20:16 |
| mestery | ttx: ++ | 20:17 |
| Rockyg | anteaya, you got that right! | 20:17 |
| ttx | like "we are still working on it" | 20:17 |
| mordred | sdague: we still do not have an option to get bug tracking off of launchpad openid, which means we don't have a solid 'so now we can move gerrit off of launchpad openid' story | 20:17 |
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| sdague | mordred: yeh, I think it's still appropriate, as it would be good to track to completion | 20:17 |
| mordred | sdague: which is the thing we need to do to fulfill ourside of the "move to dco is ok" agreement | 20:17 |
| mordred | sdague: ok | 20:17 |
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| sdague | and, maybe is now a TC ask back to infra to make that a priority | 20:18 |
| ttx | I also wanted the board to know that we would likely kick out from the "big tent" some projects that do not follow the rules during this cycle, if only to warn them that this can happen | 20:18 |
| mordred | sdague: it is | 20:18 |
| mordred | already | 20:18 |
| ttx | but this may not require a full topic | 20:18 |
| agentle | ttx: sounds like we might need a technical discussion on container v vms? | 20:18 |
| mestery | ttx: I think it makes sense to keep them aware | 20:18 |
| anteaya | mordred: but would be fair to keep the tc updated on status, yes? | 20:18 |
| mordred | agentle: ++ | 20:18 |
| agentle | esp. at API levels | 20:18 |
| mordred | agentle: TOTALLY | 20:18 |
| morgan | ttx: that sounds like a reaonable bit | 20:18 |
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| dims | agentle : ++ | 20:18 |
| mestery | I recall at the Tokyo joint TC/board meeting there was confusion on the big tent still from some board members | 20:19 |
| ttx | let me etherpad this | 20:19 |
| mordred | I'm not opposed to talking about DCO/openid at all - I just want to make sure we're going in to the discussion with the riht context | 20:19 |
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| russellb | i think there's a lot of big tent concern in the board | 20:19 |
| ttx | Please throw thoughts to https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/KAZvzrNkoM | 20:19 |
| mordred | mestery: there is always confusion on the topic :) | 20:19 |
| mestery | mordred russellb: Indeed :) | 20:19 |
| russellb | in general, about the picture of openstack being totally unclear to people | 20:19 |
| morgan | russellb: that is a concern i've had echoed to me privately | 20:19 |
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| russellb | might be worth hearing concerns and brainstorming | 20:20 |
| mordred | thing is ... to be blunt | 20:20 |
| mestery | russellb: ++ | 20:20 |
| mordred | every time it comes up in the board meeting, it's the same set of concerns as last time it was brought up | 20:20 |
| russellb | mordred: pretty much | 20:20 |
| mordred | I'm sure we'll talk about it again this time | 20:20 |
| russellb | it's about lack of focus and clarity | 20:20 |
| mordred | but it woudl be really great if we could nudge people to get up to speed | 20:20 |
| mtreinish | mordred: that doesn't sound too surprising | 20:20 |
| mestery | mordred: Is there a way out of that quagmire other than not discussing it? | 20:20 |
| ttx | russellb: I'd say it's not ours to put in the agenda, if they have questions they should add it | 20:20 |
| russellb | honestly, that was a theme in TC candidacy messages, too | 20:20 |
| russellb | ttx: fair enough | 20:21 |
| mordred | ttx: ++ | 20:21 |
| * russellb doesn't desire to have it on the agenda | 20:21 | |
| ttx | russellb: you being a Board member can switch hats and add it to Alan's portion of the agenda :) | 20:21 |
| * mordred realizes he's being grumpypants - apologizes | 20:21 | |
| mestery | russellb: I see what ttx did there ;) | 20:21 |
| dims | ninja move :) | 20:21 |
| ttx | mordred: anything we could discuss to push/encourage interoperability or end user experience ? | 20:21 |
| mordred | oh god. | 20:21 |
| mestery | dims: lol :) | 20:21 |
| * russellb wearing TC hat firmly toeday | 20:21 | |
| thingee | mordred: heh | 20:21 |
| russellb | today, not toeday. toeday is a weird idea. | 20:22 |
| mordred | ttx: so many things - but I'd actually be wearing my board hat on that one | 20:22 |
| mordred | ttx: I believe the only direcitonal ask would be for the board to ask the TC to do more about it | 20:22 |
| ttx | Like, "now that the mission statement is changed, what can we actually do (TC or board) to make it happen" | 20:22 |
| mordred | ttx: see - you say things so much better than I do | 20:22 |
| agentle | ttx: api docs clarity | 20:22 |
| agentle | and yes, I'm willing to report latest and how hellish the path has been | 20:23 |
| russellb | there was discussion at the last board meeting about defcore trying to decide if they want to own their own test suite | 20:23 |
| mordred | agentle: on your containers vs vms discussion - at the last board meeting we talked about openstack as a single platform for baremetal, vms and containers ... | 20:23 |
| russellb | that was slightly alarming | 20:23 |
| sdague | agentle: is that another item, or in reference to the interop story? | 20:23 |
| mordred | agentle: it seems we should maybe tlak about what that means with the TC | 20:23 |
| mordred | but I don't want to dilute the other topic | 20:23 |
| agentle | sdague: for interop and end user both | 20:23 |
| agentle | sdague: as a general indicator of "this is difficult in execution with volunteer staffing" | 20:24 |
| russellb | i don't think it needs to be on the agenda though ... | 20:24 |
| mtreinish | russellb: yeah I heard the tail end of some of that discussion. It doesn't seem to have any traction though | 20:24 |
| russellb | i'm just going to keep bringing up things i don't think need to be on the agenda | 20:24 |
| sdague | so I think ttx's openning sounds like the right place to open that up | 20:24 |
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| thingee | russellb: oh yeah that's good. I was attending the last defcore meeting and also was alarmed. | 20:24 |
| mordred | agentle: meh. I just added it as a sub bullet | 20:24 |
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| mtreinish | russellb: weirdly enough it came up in qa spec review too | 20:24 |
| thingee | /meeting/midcycle/ | 20:24 |
| sdague | as long as we time box interop, we can ask questions, and also highlight some things going on that could use more hands | 20:24 |
| russellb | mtreinish: well good that it's on QA radar. i think people are aware and talking about it, so no need to raise alarm yet i suppose ... | 20:24 |
| morgan | sdague: +1 on timebox | 20:25 |
| agentle | sdague: I suppose it's also about scope -- big tent drowns the middle such as API docs | 20:25 |
| mtreinish | russellb: https://review.openstack.org/301879 | 20:25 |
| dims | sdague : critical technical debt that needs man power like we talked about oslo.messaging/rabbitmq etc | 20:25 |
| thingee | russellb: I wrote "some people" ... there was disagreement at the midcycle | 20:25 |
| ttx | dims: so "areas needing more resources" ? | 20:25 |
| * russellb thinks we should just use rabbitmq as little as possible isntead | 20:25 | |
| dims | ttx : yep | 20:25 |
| sdague | I'm a little afraid that's going to turn into a giant laundry list | 20:26 |
| russellb | that's a blog post i need to get out of my system ... | 20:26 |
| ttx | yeah, we should have a target | 20:26 |
| cdent | sdague: perhaps it will but maybe it is also true | 20:26 |
| agentle | to be clear, when I talk about volunteer staffing I specifically mean web dev | 20:26 |
| mordred | ttx: ++ | 20:26 |
| sdague | if we want to have a specific tack on this around interop, we could maybe do something about it | 20:26 |
| ttx | like determine top 3 areas and discuss that | 20:26 |
| morgan | ttx: ++ | 20:27 |
| ttx | which would be the top 3 areas struggling at this point that critically need resources | 20:27 |
| ttx | Technical writers working on docs ? | 20:27 |
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| ttx | With dims and dhellmann helping with release management, we are covered there | 20:27 |
| agentle | ttx: no more about web delivery issues, we have much of the content and can spread out the content dev | 20:28 |
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| ttx | I feel like what we really need is more people working cross-project from within vertical teams | 20:28 |
| mordred | agentle: I'd love to hear more about the web delivery issues - although maybe not in the middle of the TC meeting :) | 20:28 |
| agentle | ttx: sdague's efforts of late are about web dev and nova only | 20:28 |
| mordred | ttx: ++ | 20:28 |
| agentle | mordred: heh | 20:28 |
| ttx | like cross-project liaisons | 20:28 |
| agentle | right | 20:28 |
| anteaya | ttx: yes | 20:28 |
| mordred | ttx: that actually came up at the last board meeting too, amusinglyenough | 20:29 |
| ttx | and peopel ready to tackle cross-project work but having a foothold in a project already | 20:29 |
| sdague | ttx: but is that a board discussion? I guess I don't know how the board helps fix that? | 20:29 |
| dims | we are also struggling with things like quotas and scheduling across projects | 20:29 |
| ttx | sdague: I was thinking influencing them to provide resources there. But I agree it's mostly shouting to the wind | 20:29 |
| agentle | +1 to all cross-project work, but maybe not for board discussion | 20:29 |
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| ttx | At the first BoD/TC meeting there was this big push for providing tech writers already | 20:30 |
| dims | so what can we ask or tell them? (from previous meetings?) | 20:30 |
| morgan | dims: and some other bits related to authz/interproject-communication. mostly the same as quotas and scheduling when you bridge across the services | 20:30 |
| mordred | so - at the last board meeting, the topic of cross-project-with-foothold came up in the context of wanting to do more work with other communities | 20:30 |
| ttx | They all said something like 'we'll provide one each' | 20:30 |
| anteaya | ttx: did they say when? | 20:30 |
| mordred | russellb and I pointed out that there was some of that, but it usually involved a person being solidly grounded in at least one place and being an ambassador to the other place | 20:30 |
| mordred | I could see that being a topic the board might want to discusss similarly with us | 20:31 |
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| morgan | mordred: ++ | 20:31 |
| agentle | that could be a good discussion then | 20:31 |
| sdague | yeh, that could be useful | 20:31 |
| ttx | I think explaining, again, that we need more people working cross-project than we need features, can only help | 20:32 |
| anteaya | well it is the truth | 20:32 |
| russellb | yeah, and in genreal, how to encourage more outreach and collaboration with other communities | 20:32 |
| dims | ttx : +1 | 20:32 |
| mordred | yah. but also that that's not about adding more people as much as it's reducing the feature pressure. just having 100 new devs show up to "work on cross project" is unlikely to be helpful :) | 20:32 |
| russellb | how to incentivize that type of behavior | 20:32 |
| ttx | We could give out stats about developer retention and other community insights | 20:32 |
| morgan | ttx: getting that sentiment grounded in the community is something we need to figure out how to incentivize (x-project, feature pressure reduction, etc) | 20:33 |
| * morgan is typing slow today as others cover that sentence almost exactly as i was typing it ;) | 20:33 | |
| ttx | morgan: magic eh | 20:33 |
| dims | morgan : true :) | 20:33 |
| morgan | ttx: i know! | 20:33 |
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| dims | i can get out only a few words at at time :) | 20:33 |
| ttx | OK, let's keep the etherpad open at least until Thursday, and I'll collect it and discuss it with Alan then | 20:34 |
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| mestery | dims morgan: Welcome to the machine :) | 20:34 |
| morgan | mestery: hehe | 20:34 |
| ttx | so if you think of something else just add it there | 20:34 |
| dims | ha! | 20:34 |
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| ttx | ideally with your name | 20:34 |
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| ttx | mordred: how are we doing infra-resource wise. Should we ask for more from the board members ? Or are public clouds not that well represented there anyway ? | 20:36 |
| mordred | public clouds are not well represented on the board | 20:36 |
| mordred | I mean, we can always use more resources - would it be useful to present a report on that perhaps though? | 20:37 |
| mordred | just to get people aware and on the same page? | 20:37 |
| sdague | mordred: yeh, I think so | 20:37 |
| sdague | given how low we are on nodes | 20:37 |
| fungi | yeah, infra is always oversubscribed, but the community's done a not-terrible job of keeping us staffed | 20:37 |
| russellb | can ask for foundation funding if you want to cross that bridge | 20:37 |
| dims | mordred : +1000 | 20:37 |
| anteaya | mordred: it would be great to say the names of those donating resources publicly | 20:37 |
| morgan | ++ | 20:37 |
| sdague | anteaya: that too | 20:37 |
| dims | right | 20:37 |
| mordred | k. I'll sign jeblair up to help me with that. he likes it when I do that | 20:38 |
| sdague | but our current node counts are not going to handle milestone 2 or 3 this time around | 20:38 |
| anteaya | ha ha ha | 20:38 |
| sdague | it will impact the ability to land features and bug fixes for the release | 20:38 |
| agentle | sdague: that's good data to get out there ahead of the milestones for sure | 20:38 |
| fungi | i'd like to be able to have our root sysadmins and core reviewers around more often (some of them seem to also be mired in internal company stuff), but we'll take what we can get ;) | 20:38 |
| mordred | sdague: yah - I want to give some more detailed reports to folks | 20:38 |
| morgan | sdague: that is a really good thing to highlight | 20:38 |
| mordred | sdague: so that people can know what is and isn't causing problems | 20:38 |
| dims | fungi : especially off US work hours :) | 20:39 |
| mordred | and what we do and don't have, etc | 20:39 |
| fungi | dims: yep! | 20:39 |
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| ttx | the Bod/TC meeting is also about communicating and educating | 20:39 |
| fungi | anteaya: good point. we do recognize the ones that are at or over our target threshold | 20:39 |
| Rockyg | might be worth putting together a "this is what we need to use a public cloud for nodepool" doc for the board to send out to corporste members | 20:39 |
| anteaya | yup, good to say thanks often | 20:39 |
| dims | ttx : so update about how we are streamlining release processes and scaling up would help? | 20:39 |
| fungi | #link https://www.openstack.org/foundation/companies/#infra-donors Infrastructure resource donors | 20:39 |
| ttx | OK, we need to move on, but keep on working on that etherpad | 20:40 |
| jeblair | wha? | 20:40 |
| ttx | dims: not sure | 20:40 |
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| ttx | jeblair: you thought you would get rid of us | 20:40 |
| ttx | jeblair: nice try | 20:40 |
| anteaya | Rockyg: http://docs.openstack.org/infra/system-config/contribute-cloud.html | 20:40 |
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| anteaya | Rockyg: share it liberally | 20:40 |
| ttx | OK, let's cover a few more topics now | 20:40 |
| jeblair | wait are we talking about cloud resources? | 20:40 |
| ttx | jeblair: yes, we want more | 20:41 |
| mordred | jeblair: yah. well, specifically about a report at the board/tc meeting | 20:41 |
| mordred | jeblair: so taht we can get people up to speed on the actual situation | 20:41 |
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| jeblair | great | 20:41 |
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| jeblair | i wasn't planning on being there | 20:41 |
| ttx | mordred can do it | 20:41 |
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| ttx | or fungi | 20:41 |
| fungi | i planned to show up | 20:41 |
| jeblair | i've done a lot of work in this area | 20:41 |
| mordred | jeblair: yah. I can do it - I just mostly wanted some help compiling data | 20:41 |
| jeblair | but am surprised by this | 20:42 |
| jeblair | i would like to be involved | 20:42 |
| jeblair | but i did not know we were at the stage of going to the board | 20:42 |
| agentle | jeblair: it's brainstorming BoD topics time, maybe we're not at that stage | 20:42 |
| mordred | we're not going to the board asking for resources | 20:42 |
| fungi | i do suspect that some of the impression we're low on cloud resources is running in a time lag and hasn't caught up with the present | 20:42 |
| jeblair | i thought this was something we were going to start talking about amongst ourselves | 20:42 |
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| jeblair | fungi: that is definitely the case | 20:42 |
| ttx | how about giving just a status update | 20:43 |
| fungi | "how we dealt with the loss of hpcloud" | 20:43 |
| jeblair | i will attempt to help how i can, but i would also like to express my strong desire to be involved in this | 20:43 |
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| jeblair | if that means showing up for meetings like this, it would be nice to have some advance warning | 20:43 |
| ttx | jeblair: we can scrap the idea if that creates more issues than it solves | 20:44 |
| fungi | it doesn't seem to me like it's something so urgent we have to bring it to the board (it's basically solved for now?) | 20:44 |
| jeblair | who else is involved? | 20:44 |
| ttx | I'll let you discuss that offline with fungi and mordred | 20:44 |
| jeblair | okay | 20:44 |
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| ttx | #topic Tidy of item 5 of the vulnerability:managed tag | 20:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Tidy of item 5 of the vulnerability:managed tag (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:44 | |
| jeblair | will do -- we'll see what's necessary, thanks | 20:44 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/300698 | 20:44 |
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| ttx | I'd like to have the VMT's blessing on that one, since this tag is theirs | 20:45 |
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| ttx | Feels like it needs to bake a bit more before getting their blessing | 20:45 |
| ttx | so let's revisit that once it has their approval ? | 20:45 |
| mestery | ttx: I think that's reasonable, it's got enough votes once that happens too | 20:45 |
| morgan | it does look like there is still a bit more conversation there. | 20:46 |
| morgan | but i don't think it's going to materially change much | 20:46 |
| ttx | yep, not ready for us yet | 20:46 |
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| morgan | stick it back in for a bit longer :) | 20:46 |
| ttx | #agreed wait until it gets VMT's approval | 20:46 |
| ttx | #topic Cross-project workshops at the Austin summit | 20:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Cross-project workshops at the Austin summit (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:46 | |
| tristanC | moreover there is a session at Austin to discuss that item 5 | 20:46 |
| ttx | sdague: Could you give us a quick update on that ? All set ? No complaints on the scheduling ? | 20:46 |
| sdague | sure | 20:47 |
| ttx | tristanC: ok, maybe mention htat we should defer that post-Austin | 20:47 |
| sdague | #link https://www.openstack.org/summit/austin-2016/summit-schedule/global-search?t=Cross%20Project%20workshops%3A | 20:47 |
| morgan | sdague: i just want to say the x-project sessions look amazing :) | 20:47 |
| sdague | cross project sessions all scheduled there, I've yet to get hard complaining about conflicts | 20:47 |
| sdague | as we already did a bunch of conflict dodging to get that together | 20:47 |
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| agentle | yeah nice work sdague! | 20:47 |
| sdague | yeh, I'm pretty excited by the content in the schedule, this should be good | 20:47 |
| sdague | thanks to all TC members voicing opinions, and dtroyer and ttx for helping on the scheduling | 20:48 |
| thingee | thanks sdague | 20:48 |
| dims | agentle : morgan : +1 | 20:48 |
| dims | thanks sdague | 20:48 |
| mtreinish | sdague: I could complain about the overlap between stable and devstack keystone v3 :) | 20:48 |
| sdague | mtreinish: you could :) | 20:48 |
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| ttx | questions on that ? | 20:49 |
| sdague | ttx: ok, unless there are questions, I think that's done on topic | 20:49 |
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| ttx | #topic Video with advice for design summit session moderators | 20:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Video with advice for design summit session moderators (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:49 | |
| ttx | Not much of an update there, we are "shooting" tomorrow | 20:50 |
| morgan | nice. | 20:50 |
| ttx | We'll send the link to TC for review before sending to big-tent PTLs to disseminate to their session moderators | 20:50 |
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| ttx | For those who missed previous episodes, that would make up a short video with tips specifically targeted to session moderators | 20:50 |
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| ttx | since with so many project teams we can't assume everyone knows how this works | 20:51 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:51 | |
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| ttx | Alright... open discussion now. Anything you'd like to achieve during the coming 6 months ? | 20:51 |
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| ttx | Other topics to add to the BoD/TC meeting agenda ? | 20:51 |
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| docaedo | I was wondering if this might be an appropriate TC agenda item: | 20:52 |
| morgan | I think post summit i'll have a better idea of the next 6mo and ideas there :) besides what we already put on the BoD/TC meeting agenda | 20:52 |
| ttx | Maybe the newcomers could tell us what they plan to achieve/push over the Newton session | 20:52 |
| docaedo | "unifying application development efforts" | 20:52 |
| ttx | docaedo: explain | 20:52 |
| * mordred steps back slowly from the can of worms docaedo is opening ... | 20:53 | |
| docaedo | I joined the app dev WG and have been lurking in product WG and following along with much of the conversations | 20:53 |
| docaedo | I'm seeing many people have very different versions of what an openstack application would look like | 20:53 |
| mordred | docaedo: ++ | 20:53 |
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| kfox1111 | +1 | 20:53 |
| Rockyg | ++ | 20:53 |
| * jroll pushes mordred back into the mosh pit | 20:53 | |
| agentle | yeahhhh docaedo | 20:53 |
| docaedo | and would like help getting some focus on this | 20:53 |
| mestery | docaedo: Seems like a nice can of worms right there :) | 20:53 |
| docaedo | I'm trying to get educated to see where I can help | 20:53 |
| russellb | those are definitely words | 20:54 |
| docaedo | (and I am all about cans of worms :D ) | 20:54 |
| jroll | I'm curious if "openstack application" is meant to be "an app that runs on an openstack cloud" or? | 20:54 |
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| morgan | docaedo: +1 | 20:54 |
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| mordred | jroll: this is the thing | 20:54 |
| mordred | exactly | 20:54 |
| mordred | people say "app developer" | 20:54 |
| dims | more developer-centric? | 20:54 |
| kfox1111 | jroll: yeah. | 20:54 |
| Rockyg | jroll, what mordred said | 20:54 |
| mordred | and pretend that it means something | 20:54 |
| kfox1111 | often a lot of the openstack projects assume user = developer. | 20:54 |
| agentle | jroll: yeah this is about the app catalog, heat templates, containers, all of it | 20:54 |
| mordred | are you an openstack app developer if you deploy a production gerrit on an openstack cloud using ansible and puppet? | 20:54 |
| kfox1111 | we want a world where that assumption doesn't hold true. app devloper provides program though the app catalog, and a 'user' launches it on their cloud. | 20:55 |
| jroll | right, I guess idk what's special about an "openstack application" versus a "software application" | 20:55 |
| mordred | or are you only an app developer if you wrote a from-scratch cloud-native app that stores its data in swift and its keys in barbican | 20:55 |
| kfox1111 | without knowing how the thing works. | 20:55 |
| russellb | but ... APPS! | 20:55 |
| * morgan dislikes "app developer" as a term | 20:55 | |
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| mordred | morgan: +10000000 | 20:55 |
| docaedo | My intention is not just to try to make the app catalog relevant - it's to help define who we are trying to reach, and get better at that as a community | 20:55 |
| kfox1111 | docaedo: +1 | 20:55 |
| dims | containerize all the stuff! then everyone is happy :) | 20:55 |
| morgan | russellb: hehehe | 20:55 |
| kfox1111 | right now we're pretty exclusive to non developers. | 20:55 |
| mtreinish | jroll: yeah, I'm not sure where the distinction is | 20:56 |
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| mestery | docaedo: Sounds like an admirable goal, and I think it would help our USERS a lot to clarify that | 20:56 |
| jroll | I'm still confused, I guess, but maybe that's the point | 20:56 |
| * docaedo notes only 4 minutes left, and appreciates the grenade he lobbed | 20:56 | |
| mestery | jroll: It may indeed be :) | 20:56 |
| kfox1111 | you have to be at least devops to use openstack for the most part. | 20:56 |
| agentle | kfox1111: oh I hadn't thought of an app dev that way, interestign | 20:56 |
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| agentle | kfox1111: that's a cloud architect writing templates to me, but what I think continues to be shaped heh | 20:56 |
| mordred | kfox1111: I do not agree with you | 20:56 |
| jroll | sounds like some folks maybe have an end goal for openstack clouds to be "push a button, get a deployment of a FOSS application". is that a valid interpretation? | 20:56 |
| kfox1111 | you should be able to have pure ops as an example. cloud dev provides a heat template to launch a scalable trac website. | 20:57 |
| ttx | docaedo: I bet dfflanders would like to speak to you about that | 20:57 |
| mordred | kfox1111: and I think that is one of the biggest misconceptions about openstack | 20:57 |
| kfox1111 | pure op uses it to launch and maintain track sites using openstack. | 20:57 |
| mordred | openstack is a great tool for traditional ops | 20:57 |
| docaedo | I'm happy to discuss in person or on IRC further, but mainly want some attention around the issue because it's important to whether we're able to engage USERS of clouds in addition to people who are building clouds | 20:57 |
| thingee | I would like to increase our quality with cross-project efforts that I have already been part of. | 20:57 |
| docaedo | ttx: dfflanders and I are talking muchly about it | 20:57 |
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| fungi | the infra team uses a lot of openstack public cloud as a traditional operations workflow enhancer | 20:57 |
| kfox1111 | I want end user scientists, chemists, bioligists to be able to use openstack with the app catalog to run "apps" and consume resource. :) | 20:57 |
| mordred | fungi: ++ | 20:57 |
| morgan | docaedo: i think this also plays into the general definiton of what openstack really is (to deployers, end users, developers storing data in clouds). | 20:58 |
| thingee | Things like installation docs being a necessary thing for big tent projects. | 20:58 |
| anteaya | thingee: awesome! | 20:58 |
| docaedo | fungi: yep - infra is a good example for sure | 20:58 |
| dims | kfox1111 : interesting | 20:58 |
| ttx | so looks like we should start a taxonomy of "users" | 20:58 |
| morgan | ttx: ++ | 20:58 |
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| docaedo | ttx: ++ | 20:58 |
| ttx | because we are lacking the words to describe things | 20:58 |
| ttx | and "app dev" and "end user" won't cut it | 20:58 |
| kfox1111 | openstack is an OS. right now its simliar to linux in its infancy. back then, users = developers. | 20:58 |
| dims | yep | 20:58 |
| anteaya | thingee: I agree installation docs are rather important | 20:58 |
| dtroyer | that has been a recurring theme lately, needing a common vocabularty to be able to discuss these thingss clearly | 20:59 |
| morgan | ttx: absolutely | 20:59 |
| fungi | it sounds to me like maybe the disconnect is that there should also be an audience of people consuming this stuff without needing to know how to be server sysadmins? that seems like a dangerous idea though | 20:59 |
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| mordred | kfox1111, dims that's just not true | 20:59 |
| kfox1111 | we need to seperate the two use cases so more users then just developers can consume resource. | 20:59 |
| mordred | like, not even a little bit | 20:59 |
| jroll | mordred: ++ | 20:59 |
| mordred | it's what peopel keep saying | 20:59 |
| mordred | but it's absolutely inaccurate | 20:59 |
| mordred | and I would like to stop the meme | 20:59 |
| dims | mordred : my yep was on "app dev" and "end user" :) | 20:59 |
| ttx | in one min | 20:59 |
| jroll | there's been multiple discussions about "is an application built on top of openstack, openstack?" | 20:59 |
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| jroll | and I think this loops back to that | 20:59 |
| mordred | jroll: wow. that sounds like a fun one | 20:59 |
| ttx | One min left | 21:00 |
| ttx | Personally in Newton (as discussed in my candidacy email) I'd like to have the time to do some tent cleanup, discuss the limits of the tent (i.e. the Poppy/Tacker type issues), and nail down the split event format | 21:00 |
| lifeless | jroll: meep | 21:00 |
| lifeless | jroll: hope you've got alcohol for that one | 21:00 |
| agentle | ttx: +1 on tent | 21:00 |
| jeblair | jroll: openstack is built using servers running on openstack. ;) | 21:00 |
| * jroll runs away from the grenade he threw | 21:00 | |
| morgan | ttx: +1 | 21:00 |
| anteaya | ttx: sounds good | 21:00 |
| kfox1111 | its true. whats the difference between a rest api and a linux syscall? abstraction? syscalls? both have it. both let you run programs, both provide datastorage abstractions, etc. | 21:00 |
| ttx | Oh, btw, if new TC members would like to get involved in the project team guide, just ask | 21:00 |
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| ttx | Also the comms team (flaper87/agentle) would probably not mind some help/rotation | 21:01 |
| agentle | that's a good idea ttx | 21:01 |
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| ttx | so feel free to reach out to them | 21:01 |
| ttx | and we are out of time | 21:01 |
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| ttx | Thanks everyone ! | 21:01 |
| docaedo | thanks! | 21:01 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 12 21:01:38 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:01 |
| dims | thanks ttx | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-04-12-20.01.html | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-04-12-20.01.txt | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-04-12-20.01.log.html | 21:01 |
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| jeblair | ttx: fwiw, i will be happy to continue to work on the ptg (i reviewed patches friday) | 21:01 |
| morgan | can i throw fluffy things toward agentle instead of reaching out? | 21:01 |
| morgan | agentle: :) | 21:02 |
| agentle | :) | 21:02 |
| ttx | jeblair: sounds good! We have a bit of a backlog now | 21:02 |
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| kfox1111 | jroll: an application using openstack is not nessisarily openstack. the same way as a linux app is not nessisarily linux. | 21:02 |
| agentle | morgan: happy to have ya comm'ing | 21:02 |
| kfox1111 | :) | 21:02 |
| morgan | agentle: lets chat for sure at the summit :) | 21:03 |
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| morgan | agentle: happy to jump in and help there. | 21:03 |
| jroll | kfox1111: but what about the thing that installs that application? | 21:03 |
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| morgan | (comms) | 21:03 |
| docaedo | join us on #openstack-app-catalog if you want to talk more about defining an app :) | 21:03 |
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| kfox1111 | jroll: the best example of an OS yet. :) every self respecting operating system deploys itself. Linux does.... So does openstack. TripleO. :) | 21:03 |
| morgan | docaedo: oh man, another channel! :P | 21:03 |
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| docaedo | but it's the BEST channel | 21:04 |
| docaedo | we offer free cheese once a week | 21:04 |
| dims | docaedo : yum! | 21:04 |
| Rockyg | ooh! I love cheese. What day? I'll bring wine! | 21:04 |
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| ttx | hmm. wine | 21:05 |
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| * docaedo is enjoying a homebrewed hefe :P | 21:06 | |
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| mordred | docaedo: I read "wife" and not "hefe" | 21:24 |
| dims | LOLOL | 21:25 |
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