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| hongbin | #startmeeting higgins | 03:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 31 03:00:03 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is hongbin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 03:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 03:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: higgins)" | 03:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'higgins' | 03:00 |
| hongbin | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Higgins#Agenda_for_2016-05-31_0300_UTC Today's agenda | 03:00 |
| hongbin | #topic Roll Call | 03:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: higgins)" | 03:00 | |
| yuanying | OTSUKA, Yuanying | 03:00 |
| madhuri | Madhuri Kumari | 03:00 |
| Namrata | Namrata Sitlani | 03:00 |
| yanyanhu | hi, yanyan hu | 03:00 |
| haiwei_ | xuhaiwe | 03:00 |
| haiwei_ | xuhaiwei, hi | 03:00 |
| adisky | hi, aditi | 03:01 |
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| eliqiao | hi | 03:02 |
| hongbin | Thanks for joining hte meeting yuanying madhuri Namrata yanyanhu haiwei_ adisky eliqiao | 03:02 |
| hongbin | Pause a few more minutes for potential participants | 03:02 |
| shu-mutou | o/ | 03:03 |
| hongbin | hey shu-mutou | 03:03 |
| Qiming | o/ | 03:03 |
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| hongbin | hey Qiming | 03:04 |
| hongbin | #topic Announcements | 03:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: higgins)" | 03:04 | |
| flwang1 | o/ | 03:04 |
| hongbin | I have no annoucement | 03:04 |
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| hongbin | Anyone else has annoucement? | 03:04 |
| hongbin | flwang1: hey | 03:04 |
| Qiming | announcement: flwang1 joined | 03:05 |
| hongbin | #topic Review Action Items | 03:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Action Items (Meeting topic: higgins)" | 03:05 | |
| hongbin | Qiming: :) | 03:05 |
| flwang1 | Qiming: :) | 03:05 |
| hongbin | 1. Hongbin start a ML to discuss the container composition topic (DONE) | 03:05 |
| hongbin | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-May/095833.html | 03:05 |
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| hongbin | From the ML, it looks we agree to revisit the idea later | 03:05 |
| hongbin | Comments? | 03:06 |
| madhuri | Yes agree | 03:06 |
| flwang1 | hongbin: as for that thread, i think Joshua mad a valid point | 03:06 |
| hongbin | flwang1: could you elaborate more? | 03:06 |
| flwang1 | s/mad/make | 03:06 |
| flwang1 | we need to define a vision for higgins | 03:07 |
| hongbin | Yes, that is true | 03:07 |
| hongbin | I can tell you that I have a vision, everyone else has it too | 03:07 |
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| hongbin | So we have a meeting to gather opinions | 03:07 |
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| hongbin | flwang1: you have any suggestion for that? | 03:08 |
| hongbin | like actionable suggestion | 03:08 |
| flwang1 | hongbin: i think we should define some basic features and advanced features | 03:08 |
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| flwang1 | and create some small sub teams | 03:09 |
| hongbin | agree | 03:09 |
| eliqiao | +1 | 03:09 |
| flwang1 | to investigate those advanced topics | 03:09 |
| flwang1 | and report/propose in ML and with specs | 03:09 |
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| hongbin | wfm | 03:10 |
| flwang1 | IMHO, which can speed up our progress | 03:10 |
| hongbin | OK | 03:10 |
| flwang1 | and to avoid duplication effort | 03:10 |
| flwang1 | duplicated | 03:10 |
| flwang1 | just my 2 cents | 03:10 |
| hongbin | For basic features, I tried to define them in this meeting | 03:11 |
| hongbin | For advanced features, I need to identify the list of features that needs to be discussed | 03:11 |
| hongbin | Then, discuss it one-by-one | 03:11 |
| hongbin | #action hongbin collect a list of advanced features | 03:12 |
| hongbin | flwang1: sounds good? | 03:12 |
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| eliqiao | I have a basic question, what the archeture looks like for higgins? only higgins-api and higgins-cond? | 03:12 |
| flwang1 | hongbin: good, thanks | 03:12 |
| eliqiao | should we run a agent on each host like nova does? | 03:12 |
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| madhuri | eliqiao: Yes for now | 03:13 |
| flwang1 | eliqiao: it's related to the scope, IMHO | 03:13 |
| hongbin | eliqiao: I think yes | 03:13 |
| hongbin | Let's discuss it later in the agenda | 03:13 |
| eliqiao | ok | 03:13 |
| hongbin | Maybe in hte open discussion | 03:14 |
| hongbin | 2. hongbin start a ML to discuss container host management (DONE) | 03:14 |
| hongbin | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-May/095833.html | 03:14 |
| hongbin | For this one, it looks we agree to not expose host to end-users | 03:14 |
| yanyanhu | yea | 03:14 |
| hongbin | However, I think it is really up to operators | 03:15 |
| hongbin | Eventually, operators need to tune the policy.json to decide which APIs to expose | 03:15 |
| flwang1 | hongbin: yep, we do have host apis, but admin only | 03:15 |
| hongbin | OK, Le't make the host API default to admin only | 03:15 |
| hongbin | Agree? | 03:15 |
| eliqiao | +1 | 03:16 |
| yanyanhu | hongbin, that's reasonable | 03:16 |
| madhuri | Yes | 03:16 |
| hongbin | #agreed make host api admin only by default | 03:16 |
| hongbin | #topic Project rename (shu-mutou) | 03:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Project rename (shu-mutou) (Meeting topic: higgins)" | 03:16 | |
| hongbin | shu-mutou: could you propose the idea? | 03:16 |
| hongbin | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-May/095746.html ML discussion | 03:16 |
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| shu-mutou | How about "Gatling"? It's only association from Magnum. It's not used on both Launchpad and PYPI. | 03:17 |
| madhuri | What does Gatling mean? | 03:17 |
| eliqiao | madhuri: a gun | 03:18 |
| shu-mutou | yes | 03:18 |
| yanyanhu | machine gun :) | 03:18 |
| madhuri | We could have some more options and then have a voting | 03:18 |
| hongbin | shu-mutou: maybe you can explain a bit about why renaming is necessary? | 03:18 |
| madhuri | What do you guys think? | 03:18 |
| shu-mutou | Now, our project name on Launchpad and PYPI (=package name) is 'python-higgins', because 'higgins' is already used in other product. | 03:19 |
| haiwei_ | the 'Gatling' word is not using by some business use? | 03:19 |
| shu-mutou | It means 'python-higgins' is used for package name. | 03:20 |
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| flwang1 | maybe we can ask TC or foundation to get some legal support about the name | 03:20 |
| shu-mutou | haiwei_: I'm not sure, but 'gatling' is not used in Launchpad and PYPI | 03:21 |
| shu-mutou | flwang1: yes. The naming 'python-higgins' is according to the guide for project naming as following. http://docs.openstack.org/infra/manual/creators.html#choosing-a-good-name-for-your-project It says, "Try 'python-' as a prefix if necessary". | 03:22 |
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| Qiming | I'm not sure 'gatling' is a good option | 03:22 |
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| haiwei_ | there is a test tool named gatling https://github.com/gatling/gatling | 03:23 |
| Qiming | better avoid some sensitive words in a project name | 03:23 |
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| hongbin | OK. Let's table this if we cannot think of a perfect name | 03:24 |
| hongbin | #action hongbin raise a ML to collect idea of project naming | 03:24 |
| hongbin | #topic Drive consensus on project scope | 03:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Drive consensus on project scope (Meeting topic: higgins)" | 03:24 | |
| hongbin | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/container-management-service etherpad for collaborating on project requirements | 03:24 |
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| hongbin | In the etherpad, at the bottom, there is a set of decision to make | 03:25 |
| hongbin | That includes the basic features and advanced features | 03:25 |
| hongbin | In the last meeting, we covered half of the list | 03:26 |
| hongbin | Let's start with what is left over | 03:26 |
| hongbin | Topic: Integration with Other OpenStack Project | 03:26 |
| hongbin | There are a list of projects were mentioned as intergration candidates | 03:27 |
| hongbin | 1. Nova | 03:27 |
| hongbin | 2. Magnum | 03:27 |
| hongbin | 3. Heat | 03:27 |
| hongbin | 4. Neutron/Kuryr | 03:27 |
| hongbin | 5. Cinder | 03:27 |
| hongbin | 6. Glance | 03:27 |
| hongbin | 7. Keystone | 03:27 |
| hongbin | For me, we should start a project with minimum dependencies | 03:28 |
| Qiming | 1, 4, 5, 6, 7 sound higher priority to me | 03:28 |
| hongbin | Qiming: ack | 03:29 |
| hongbin | Qiming: 6 is interesting | 03:29 |
| Qiming | 2, 3, are more of higher level orchestration / management | 03:29 |
| Qiming | right, to start a container, you will need to provide an image somewhere | 03:29 |
| Qiming | that "somewhere" in the openstack native way would be glance | 03:29 |
| hongbin | An alternative is docker registry | 03:30 |
| hongbin | OH, we know we can host a private docker registry backed by swift | 03:30 |
| madhuri | 4 is also a priority | 03:30 |
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| hongbin | For glance, I know there is a drawback, which is that it cannot support layers of images | 03:30 |
| eliqiao | maybe we chose swift which will be better than glance | 03:31 |
| Qiming | layers of images ... is it a hard requirement? | 03:31 |
| flwang1 | hongbin: yep, layered images is in review | 03:31 |
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| * flwang1 is putting his glance hat | 03:31 | |
| hongbin | No, layer of images is not a hard requirement | 03:32 |
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| hongbin | flwang1: That is great | 03:32 |
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| flwang1 | hongbin: i can take a look at that | 03:32 |
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| Qiming | layered images sounds more like a docker-specific thing | 03:32 |
| flwang1 | i mean from the higgins side | 03:32 |
| hongbin | ok | 03:33 |
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| Qiming | if we focus on providing a openstack native runtime support for containers, image layering is not that interesting, imho | 03:33 |
| hongbin | maybe | 03:33 |
| hongbin | flwang1: right now, glance supports docker image? | 03:34 |
| hongbin | flwang1: if not, what is the timeline? | 03:34 |
| flwang1 | hongbin: yes | 03:34 |
| hongbin | flwang1: do you have any link? | 03:34 |
| Qiming | glare? | 03:35 |
| hongbin | oh, glare? | 03:35 |
| flwang1 | hongbin: a good proof https://github.com/openstack/nova-docker#1-enable-the-driver-in-glances-configuration :D | 03:35 |
| hongbin | nice | 03:35 |
| hongbin | #link https://github.com/openstack/nova-docker#1-enable-the-driver-in-glances-configuration | 03:35 |
| hongbin | Then, I have no problem for glance | 03:35 |
| flwang1 | hongbin: :) cool | 03:36 |
| hongbin | Back to the integration list, Qiming mentioned 1, 4, 5, 6, 7 | 03:36 |
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| hongbin | What are other opinions | 03:36 |
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| madhuri | 4 | 03:36 |
| flwang1 | hongbin: yep, i will take a look at the #6, Glance part | 03:36 |
| hongbin | flwang1: thx | 03:37 |
| wang-jian | madhuri | 03:37 |
| wang-jian | madhuri;: +1 | 03:37 |
| madhuri | Is Kuryr ready to be used? | 03:37 |
| hongbin | Qiming: I think 1 could be optional at current stage | 03:37 |
| madhuri | Agree hongbin | 03:37 |
| madhuri | We are implementing non-nested containers in first stage | 03:38 |
| eliqiao | what function will nova provide us? | 03:38 |
| eliqiao | create vm as higgins host? | 03:38 |
| hongbin | madhuri: AFAIK, it is not stable yet | 03:38 |
| madhuri | Host to run containers | 03:38 |
| yanyanhu | actually, even for nested cases, we may no need talk to nova directly :) | 03:38 |
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| yanyanhu | some services can help us manage VMs easily I think | 03:39 |
| madhuri | How yanyanhu ? | 03:39 |
| yanyanhu | e.g. Heat as what magnum is doing | 03:39 |
| Qiming | so... we are not adopting nova-docker ? | 03:40 |
| yanyanhu | or Senlin | 03:40 |
| hongbin | eliqiao: 1) container host, 2) compute API to call higgins | 03:40 |
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| Qiming | eliqiao, I'm thinking about scheduling | 03:40 |
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| eliqiao | Qiming: get it | 03:41 |
| Qiming | but ... maybe we can start something simple stupid | 03:41 |
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| flwang1 | hmm... i think Higgins is on the similar position like Ironic | 03:41 |
| hongbin | Qiming: Use nova scheduler, higgins as a virt-driver? | 03:41 |
| flwang1 | hongbin: yes, that's one of two ways | 03:41 |
| Qiming | yep, I think we may take nova-docker | 03:41 |
| hongbin | I think so, we are replacing nova-docker | 03:42 |
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| hongbin | However, I am not sure if it is a priority now | 03:42 |
| madhuri | But container and vms have different use cases. So will nova-scheduler fit for us? | 03:42 |
| Qiming | on one hand, we keep nova-docker alive ... and higgins provide a simple naive driver for nova | 03:42 |
| Qiming | on the other hand, higgins is growing its own apis | 03:42 |
| hongbin | Yes, we should support two APIs | 03:43 |
| hongbin | 1. nova | 03:43 |
| hongbin | 2. higgins native | 03:43 |
| yanyanhu | madhuri, so I guess leveraging those services can provide higgins an easier way to manage those VM which will be used as container host | 03:43 |
| flwang1 | hongbin: yes, +1 for that | 03:43 |
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| Qiming | we don't have a lot to do regarding #1 | 03:43 |
| hongbin | Qiming: ack | 03:43 |
| hongbin | Let's call out each one | 03:44 |
| hongbin | For #1, nova | 03:44 |
| hongbin | Do everyone agree this is a priority? | 03:44 |
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| yanyanhu | agree | 03:44 |
| flwang1 | hongbin: it's | 03:44 |
| madhuri | Yes scheduling is | 03:45 |
| hongbin | any opposing point of view? | 03:45 |
| haiwei_ | not a priority currently I think | 03:45 |
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| hongbin | haiwei_: could you elaborate a bit? | 03:45 |
| haiwei_ | what is the thing you want if you want to do with Nova? scheduler? | 03:46 |
| haiwei_ | or host? | 03:47 |
| wang-jian | Maybe we can focus on higgins own apis for now, and implement a simple sheduler | 03:47 |
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| hongbin | I guess the benefit is a single compute API for container/VM/baremetal | 03:47 |
| madhuri | hongbin: I don't get it | 03:47 |
| madhuri | Could you please explain last point? | 03:48 |
| hongbin | madhuri: launching vm/container/baremetal with a single API | 03:48 |
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| madhuri | We are writing our own APIs | 03:48 |
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| eliqiao | container and vm has different APIs, but how can we reuse nova API? | 03:48 |
| madhuri | hongbin: From nova? | 03:48 |
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| hongbin | madhuri: Ironic has its own API | 03:48 |
| hongbin | madhuri: but it can be called by nova api | 03:48 |
| hongbin | madhuri: Ironic API is a superset of nova API | 03:49 |
| madhuri | Ok got it | 03:49 |
| yanyanhu | actually, there was a long discussion in ML about unified API interface for bare metal/VM/containers | 03:49 |
| madhuri | hongbin: Thanks for the explanation | 03:49 |
| yanyanhu | higgins will be part of it :) | 03:49 |
| hongbin | Let's table the nova | 03:49 |
| hongbin | We can discuss it later | 03:49 |
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| hongbin | 4. Kuryr/Neutron | 03:50 |
| Qiming | that is interesting ... "container and VM has different APIs" ... is it a conclusion or a premise? | 03:50 |
| eliqiao | Qiming: permise | 03:50 |
| hongbin | Qiming: I believe they do have different API, with a common set | 03:50 |
| hongbin | container and vm share some common features, but vary differently on each other | 03:51 |
| Qiming | eliqiao, if that premise is true, you don't need openstack at all, ;) | 03:51 |
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| hongbin | ........ | 03:51 |
| eliqiao | ... | 03:51 |
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| eliqiao | Qiming: I agree that we can think higgins as Ironic | 03:52 |
| flwang1 | eliqiao: cool, more guys are on the same page :D | 03:52 |
| Qiming | openstack is irrelevant if you really need the unique features of containers (or more specifically, dockers) | 03:52 |
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| Qiming | +1, on that metaphor | 03:53 |
| hongbin | Qiming: that is why we need to provide both APIs, higgins and nova | 03:53 |
| Qiming | yes, hongbin, totally agree | 03:53 |
| madhuri | +1 hongbin | 03:54 |
| hongbin | THe prboem is which one is hte priority | 03:54 |
| hongbin | I guess both are needed | 03:54 |
| yanyanhu | the common set? | 03:54 |
| Qiming | IMHO, they are equally important | 03:54 |
| hongbin | But we disagreed on which one we should focus right now | 03:54 |
| hongbin | Qiming: Yes, maybe both are important | 03:54 |
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| madhuri | Higgins API is priority now | 03:55 |
| Qiming | can we start with some use cases and work on some API design? | 03:55 |
| madhuri | the basic CRUD APIs | 03:55 |
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| yanyanhu | madhuri, that's for sure | 03:55 |
| yanyanhu | +1 | 03:55 |
| Qiming | yes, basic CRUD | 03:55 |
| flwang1 | Qiming: +1, re define core user case | 03:55 |
| eliqiao | if I get the nova part correctlly, we may need to implement a virt-driver and put it to nova repo, right? | 03:56 |
| madhuri | We have few mins left | 03:56 |
| hongbin | #agreed define core use cases for API design | 03:56 |
| madhuri | Yes eliqiao | 03:56 |
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| eliqiao | Nova doesn't support 3rd part driver now. | 03:56 |
| hongbin | #topic Open Discussion | 03:56 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: higgins)" | 03:56 | |
| hongbin | Sorry, don't have time to cover other integrating projects yet | 03:57 |
| eliqiao | and Nova is spec freeze this thursday | 03:57 |
| yanyanhu | hi, hongbin, just post some comments on your draft of announcement of higgins project | 03:57 |
| yanyanhu | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/higgins-announcing-statement | 03:57 |
| madhuri | Anyone tried setting up Higgins | 03:57 |
| hongbin | yanyanhu: will check that. thx | 03:57 |
| yanyanhu | but they are just suggestion :) | 03:57 |
| madhuri | We need it to pace up the work | 03:57 |
| eliqiao | madhuri: yes, I did | 03:57 |
| madhuri | DB part is not yet ready I guess | 03:57 |
| madhuri | eliqiao: What were your observation? | 03:58 |
| hongbin | madhuri: The API part is not ready as well | 03:58 |
| madhuri | Yes I will be working on it to have a running Higgins | 03:58 |
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| eliqiao | we have devstack plugin now | 03:58 |
| madhuri | It's at highest priority now | 03:58 |
| hongbin | Last minute | 03:59 |
| hongbin | Let's wrap up | 03:59 |
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| madhuri | Thanks everyone | 03:59 |
| yanyanhu | need more eyes on this patch https://review.openstack.org/319143 I think | 03:59 |
| hongbin | All, thanks for joining hte meeting. Hope to see you all in the next team meeting | 03:59 |
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| yanyanhu | it's important as well | 03:59 |
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| hongbin | #endmeeting | 03:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 03:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 31 03:59:55 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 03:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/higgins/2016/higgins.2016-05-31-03.00.html | 03:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/higgins/2016/higgins.2016-05-31-03.00.txt | 03:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/higgins/2016/higgins.2016-05-31-03.00.log.html | 04:00 |
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| Qiming | #startmeeting senlin | 13:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 31 13:00:35 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:00 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'senlin' | 13:00 |
| Qiming | evening | 13:00 |
| xuhaiwei__ | hi | 13:01 |
| elynn | o/ | 13:01 |
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| Qiming | #topic newton work items | 13:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "newton work items (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:02 | |
| Qiming | yanyan won't be able to join today duing family reasons | 13:02 |
| Qiming | tempest | 13:02 |
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| elynn | tempest api gate job is enabled | 13:02 |
| Qiming | gate job added and enabled as experimental, yes | 13:02 |
| elynn | in experimental queue | 13:03 |
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| Qiming | removing line 6-7 | 13:03 |
| elynn | negative tests are slow... | 13:03 |
| Qiming | event show test is in, right? | 13:03 |
| elynn | yes | 13:03 |
| elynn | I will continue negative tests during my part time. | 13:04 |
| Qiming | I suggest we do finer granularity test for cluster actions | 13:04 |
| Qiming | one of the reasons we didn't document api using openapi is that we have many cluster actions, all on the same uri | 13:04 |
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| elynn | So you suggest to test rest cluster actions? | 13:05 |
| Qiming | those actions differ from each other regarding parameters, better test each and every of them because they are all different apis | 13:05 |
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| Qiming | yes, cluster_add_node cluster_del_node cluster_resize ... etc | 13:06 |
| elynn | Okay, I will work on them. | 13:06 |
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| elynn | Do we need to test all parameters? | 13:06 |
| Qiming | thanks | 13:06 |
| elynn | for each cluster action | 13:06 |
| Qiming | by the way, I spent quite some time rework the tempest test cases | 13:07 |
| elynn | I saw that, you move some functions to util.py | 13:07 |
| Qiming | separating util functions out; and use setUp and addCleanup for test case preparation | 13:07 |
| elynn | Thanks for doing that! | 13:07 |
| Qiming | I don't get the idea of doing resource_setup classmethod calls | 13:08 |
| Qiming | it is very cumbersome to do cls.profile = ... then later reference it as self.profile | 13:08 |
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| elynn | Yes, I thought it's weird... | 13:09 |
| Qiming | I think adding new ones would be much easier now | 13:09 |
| elynn | Most of them are classmethod... | 13:09 |
| elynn | Thanks for that job | 13:09 |
| Qiming | I started trying on a few of them and it worked, so I extended the revision to all tests | 13:09 |
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| Qiming | I have removed some validations after api triggering | 13:10 |
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| Qiming | because they were making the api test impure, i.e. making them more like functional tests | 13:10 |
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| elynn | Saw that too, some of tests are using two or more API in one test. | 13:11 |
| Qiming | once the whole collection of api tests are in place, we may want to make the gate voting | 13:11 |
| elynn | I will follow your mofication to add new tests. | 13:11 |
| Qiming | or, maybe we can enable it now | 13:11 |
| Qiming | thanks | 13:11 |
| elynn | Okay, I will submit a patch to enable it later :) | 13:12 |
| Qiming | lixinhui_, there? | 13:12 |
| lixinhui_ | Yes, Qiming | 13:12 |
| Qiming | hi, any news from stess tests? | 13:12 |
| lixinhui_ | Sorry, Qiming | 13:12 |
| Qiming | np | 13:12 |
| Qiming | good news is that #138453 is in | 13:13 |
| lixinhui_ | We are stilling focus to intergate the Senlin with VIO 2.5 | 13:13 |
| Qiming | now we can add some more rally tests when yanyan gets cycles | 13:13 |
| lixinhui_ | but I am thinking to delay it | 13:13 |
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| Qiming | okay, let's switch to that later | 13:14 |
| Qiming | health management ... no progress last week | 13:14 |
| lixinhui_ | not really | 13:14 |
| lixinhui_ | Qiming | 13:14 |
| lixinhui_ | I am thinking | 13:14 |
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| Qiming | i have refactored the health_manager code last week, to make room for event listener | 13:15 |
| Qiming | oh? | 13:15 |
| lixinhui_ | to use heat stack installing the linux ha | 13:15 |
| lixinhui_ | agent | 13:15 |
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| Qiming | into vm instances? | 13:15 |
| lixinhui_ | is that a right way to think that? | 13:15 |
| lixinhui_ | yes | 13:15 |
| lixinhui_ | to help fencing | 13:15 |
| Qiming | that is one option | 13:16 |
| Qiming | fencing has to be done on physical servers, which is beyond heat control | 13:16 |
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| lixinhui_ | do we have other choice? | 13:16 |
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| lixinhui_ | I know | 13:16 |
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| lixinhui_ | just still need to install a agent in the vm | 13:17 |
| lixinhui_ | for vm level control, right? | 13:17 |
| Qiming | I have am impression that nova has some work on fencing interface, but cannot recall the details at the moment | 13:17 |
| lixinhui_ | did get any info about that | 13:17 |
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| lixinhui_ | did not | 13:17 |
| Qiming | ... I am not a fan of installing things into VMs | 13:17 |
| Qiming | not at this stage at least | 13:18 |
| lixinhui_ | I see | 13:18 |
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| lixinhui_ | so I am trying to know if any other choice | 13:18 |
| Qiming | our next topic on agenda will touch this topic | 13:18 |
| Qiming | okay | 13:18 |
| lixinhui_ | okay | 13:18 |
| lixinhui_ | go head | 13:18 |
| Qiming | no comment received on the senlin-ha-recover etherpad | 13:19 |
| Qiming | moving on | 13:19 |
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| Qiming | no news about documentation last week, we have done api-ref migration I believe | 13:19 |
| Qiming | the new site is up and looks great so far | 13:19 |
| Qiming | container support | 13:20 |
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| xuhaiwei__ | yes, i am working on adding docker driver | 13:20 |
| Qiming | saw that, xuhaiwei__ | 13:20 |
| Qiming | thanks | 13:20 |
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| xuhaiwei__ | need to get the ip from nova server | 13:21 |
| Qiming | let's see if our driver work can help shape the API design of higgins | 13:21 |
| Qiming | yes, you will get that info | 13:21 |
| xuhaiwei__ | currently I am concerning about one thing | 13:21 |
| Qiming | when node-create, or cluster-create is triggered | 13:21 |
| Qiming | the profile will get those information filled in | 13:21 |
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| xuhaiwei__ | that is Senlin supports two kinds of nodes, nova server and heat stack, heat stack node can contain more than one nova server | 13:22 |
| Qiming | it is like the region_name, scheduler_hints we fed to nova server | 13:22 |
| Qiming | then we don't support specifying a heat stack cluster as the hosting cluster for containers | 13:22 |
| Qiming | that is the easy, quick decision | 13:23 |
| xuhaiwei__ | ok | 13:23 |
| Qiming | in the long run, I think we can re-enable heat stack clusters to play this role, provided it has a OS::Server output | 13:23 |
| xuhaiwei__ | maybe for the first step, we care about nova server node only | 13:24 |
| Qiming | I have an impression that a heat stack has a secret output attribute allowing to treat that stack as a nova server | 13:24 |
| Qiming | if you really need that, please dig it out | 13:24 |
| Qiming | as the first step, it is fine | 13:24 |
| Qiming | will take a look at the driver code and think about it, ... how can we generalize that | 13:25 |
| Qiming | no progress on engine work | 13:25 |
| xuhaiwei__ | In fact when I did the demo for the summit session, I used heat stack output directly to get the server's ip | 13:25 |
| Qiming | yes, it is possible | 13:25 |
| xuhaiwei__ | it's convenient | 13:26 |
| Qiming | so long as we controle the heat template ... to ensure that the template has server ip in its output | 13:26 |
| Qiming | please keep on exploring that | 13:26 |
| xuhaiwei__ | yes, that's kind of forcing user to do it | 13:26 |
| Qiming | and feel free to call for discussions on details | 13:27 |
| xuhaiwei__ | ok | 13:27 |
| Qiming | it is not generic, but still doable, :) | 13:27 |
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| xuhaiwei__ | yes | 13:27 |
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| Qiming | zaqar support, em ... I'm thinking if we can get some support from fei long on that | 13:27 |
| Qiming | there have been a spec proposal | 13:28 |
| Qiming | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/318202/3/specs/newton/mistral-notifications.rst | 13:28 |
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| Qiming | haven't got time to catch up on the review history | 13:28 |
| Qiming | if you are interested in connecting the dots, that might be an interesting thread to follow | 13:29 |
| Qiming | moving on | 13:29 |
| Qiming | event/notifications | 13:29 |
| Qiming | that is a big topic than I imagined | 13:29 |
| Qiming | so after reading the nova specs, I figured that we need to get oslo.versionedobject landed first | 13:30 |
| Qiming | all senlin db objects then can be represented as a versioned object | 13:30 |
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| Qiming | we can isolate the db changes from senlin-engine/senlin-api, so in future, live upgrade of the service is possible | 13:31 |
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| Qiming | when working on that, I was also hoping that we can use o.vo to model API requests which should be versioned as well, and notifications, which needs version too | 13:32 |
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| Qiming | notification's priority is higher than requests because we got requirements to notify other software what happened in senlin | 13:32 |
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| Qiming | that is a key interface for integrating with existing software | 13:33 |
| Qiming | will keep working on that in coming weeks | 13:33 |
| Qiming | so ... that's all from the agenda | 13:33 |
| Qiming | the first topic | 13:34 |
| Qiming | questions/comments? | 13:34 |
| Qiming | while implementing the o.vo, there were two blockers ... | 13:35 |
| Qiming | can share with you as experiences | 13:35 |
| elynn | That's great! | 13:35 |
| Qiming | one is that many database are storing DateTime fields without time zone info | 13:35 |
| Qiming | including mysql | 13:35 |
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| Qiming | but o.vo is forcing the DateTimeField to carry TZ info by default | 13:36 |
| Qiming | to solve this conflict, you can either turn off TZ in o.vo, or enable TZ at sqlalchemy layer | 13:36 |
| Qiming | I chose the latter | 13:36 |
| Qiming | another one is about obj_name, which was a column in the event table in senlin db | 13:37 |
| Qiming | but o.vo VersionedObject has a obj_name method | 13:37 |
| Qiming | yes, the same name | 13:38 |
| elynn | Then?... | 13:38 |
| Qiming | so we had to change to db schema to make things smooth | 13:38 |
| Qiming | that is reason why we have version 5 of db migration | 13:38 |
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| Qiming | we changed obj_id, obj_name, and obj_type to oid, oname and otype correspondingly | 13:39 |
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| Qiming | still working on some complaints about some IDs not being UUID format | 13:39 |
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| Qiming | but anyway, stricter checkings do help make the code stable | 13:39 |
| Qiming | #topic senlin cluster-do operation | 13:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "senlin cluster-do operation (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:40 | |
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| Qiming | during a discussion with lixinhui_ and a long 4.5 hours meeting today with a customer | 13:40 |
| Qiming | I'm feeling an urgent need to add the cluster_do operation to senlin-api | 13:40 |
| xuhaiwei__ | what is it? | 13:41 |
| Qiming | in general, it is an API that allows users to do things they want on all or some specific nodes in a cluster (focus on nova server cluster now) | 13:41 |
| Qiming | I'm thinking of three layers of "things to do" at the moment | 13:42 |
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| Qiming | layer one: operations exposed by the backend drivers, thus implementable in senlin profiles | 13:42 |
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| Qiming | e.g. nova evacuate, nova reboot, nova shelf, ... | 13:43 |
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| Qiming | these operations are specific to a profile type | 13:43 |
| Qiming | e.g. 'evacuate' only makes sense to nova servers | 13:43 |
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| Qiming | we can augment senlin profile types by adding an 'operations' property that captures the operations a backend can understand | 13:44 |
| Qiming | then a user can do this: | 13:44 |
| Qiming | senlin cluster-do evacuate <cluster_id> | 13:44 |
| Qiming | or | 13:44 |
| Qiming | senlin cluster-do evacuate --role blue_region <cluster_id> | 13:45 |
| xuhaiwei__ | sounds reasonable | 13:45 |
| Qiming | it is a batch operation you can perform on a cluster, and the operation logic is programmed into the profile type implementation | 13:45 |
| Qiming | layer two: run some user specified scripts on a cluster (still nova cluster here) | 13:46 |
| Qiming | senlin cluster-do --script <install_linux_ha.sh> <cluster_id> | 13:46 |
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| Qiming | senlin can take the specified script and scp that code to each and every cluster node, and ssh to those nodes for execution | 13:47 |
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| Qiming | it is a generic logic, that can be used to run any shell scripts | 13:48 |
| Qiming | its function is comparable to the software-config and software-deployment, but with less constraints | 13:48 |
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| Qiming | layer three: enable senlin to run a ansible playbook directly | 13:49 |
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| Qiming | senlin cluster-do --playbook install_mysql_cluster.yml <cluster_id> | 13:50 |
| Qiming | behind the scene, you can imagine, senlin is calling ansible to run the playbooks | 13:50 |
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| lixinhui_ | very useful | 13:51 |
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| Qiming | this is a measure to save those guys trapped by heat softwareconfig/deployments | 13:52 |
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| Qiming | we have been working with them a long time ago to set up a multi-tiered enterprise application | 13:52 |
| Qiming | at least layer one and layer two will be useful for your use case, lixinhui_, right? | 13:53 |
| lixinhui_ | to be honesty | 13:53 |
| lixinhui_ | I wanna layer3 | 13:53 |
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| Qiming | :D | 13:53 |
| lixinhui_ | or a super CLI | 13:53 |
| lixinhui_ | you know | 13:54 |
| lixinhui_ | install some agent | 13:54 |
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| lixinhui_ | or remove some gent | 13:54 |
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| Qiming | yes, it would be very useful and very convenient to provision application HA | 13:54 |
| lixinhui_ | :) | 13:55 |
| Qiming | I have already tried to invoke ansible from a python program ... it works | 13:56 |
| lixinhui_ | cool | 13:56 |
| Qiming | though I need to figure out how to manage the keys | 13:56 |
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| Qiming | I'm not a super fan of layer 3, to be honest | 13:56 |
| lixinhui_ | reasons | 13:57 |
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| Qiming | it sounds a wrapper to ansible, if users already have some ansible playbooks, they may want to use ansible directly | 13:57 |
| lixinhui_ | yes | 13:57 |
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| Qiming | the advantage of layer 3 ... is that with such an API, it can be exposed to horizon | 13:58 |
| lixinhui_ | yes | 13:58 |
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| Qiming | a user can paste their playbook directly into the web page | 13:58 |
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| Qiming | or the link to the playbook to the web page, and click 'run', :) | 13:59 |
| Qiming | oh ... time's up | 13:59 |
| lixinhui_ | ... | 13:59 |
| Qiming | have to free the channel | 13:59 |
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| lixinhui_ | okay, talk more tomorrow | 13:59 |
| Qiming | thanks for your time, guys, you are always good listeners, :D | 13:59 |
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| Qiming | good night | 13:59 |
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| Qiming | #endmeeting | 13:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 31 13:59:55 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:59 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-05-31-13.00.html | 13:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-05-31-13.00.txt | 14:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-05-31-13.00.log.html | 14:00 |
| saggi | yamamoto: Hi, how are you? | 14:00 |
| saggi | Did you come to the Smaug meeting? :) | 14:00 |
| gsagie | my first official smaug IRC meeting.. | 14:00 |
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| gampel | welcome :) | 14:01 |
| xiangxinyong | hello | 14:01 |
| saggi | #startmeeting smaug | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 31 14:01:05 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is saggi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| yuval | hello everybody :) | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: smaug)" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'smaug' | 14:01 |
| saggi | Are we waiting for anyone? | 14:01 |
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| zhonghua-lee | hi | 14:01 |
| xiangxinyong | ^-^ | 14:01 |
| gampel | hi everyone | 14:01 |
| gsagie | o/ | 14:01 |
| chenhuayi | hi | 14:01 |
| yamamoto | saggi: hi | 14:01 |
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| saggi | #topic news | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "news (Meeting topic: smaug)" | 14:02 | |
| saggi | We had an internal meeting earlier this week. | 14:03 |
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| saggi | We are trying to use trello more | 14:03 |
| zengchen | saggi:great | 14:03 |
| saggi | Also every day at 09:00 UTC is happy hour at the #smaug channel. | 14:04 |
| yuval | Currently the Trello is organized by topics | 14:04 |
| gsagie | saggi, yuval: Trello link | 14:04 |
| zhonghua-lee | saggi: could you please print the Trello link here | 14:04 |
| saggi | where you can get you patch boosted to the top of the core reviewer list just by showing up. | 14:04 |
| xiangxinyong | yeah. I update some bugs which need to be reviewed | 14:04 |
| yuval | https://trello.com/invite/b/Sudr4fKT/826e3dcffc7259b1447d4ecc448c1a45/smaug | 14:04 |
| saggi | I' | 14:04 |
| gsagie | #link https://trello.com/invite/b/Sudr4fKT/826e3dcffc7259b1447d4ecc448c1a45/smaug | 14:05 |
| zhonghua-lee | yuval: thank you | 14:05 |
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| yuval | Feel free to open cards in tasks you think need review | 14:05 |
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| yuval | Archive tasks that are complete and requrie no further discussion or work | 14:05 |
| xiangxinyong | ok. good rules | 14:06 |
| yuval | If someone is in need of admin priviliges for the Trello, tell me | 14:06 |
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| saggi | We currently give priority in review to the Protection Service. | 14:06 |
| xiangxinyong | yuval: could you give me admin priviliges | 14:07 |
| xiangxinyong | ? | 14:07 |
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| xiangxinyong | saggi: yeah. protection service is very important | 14:08 |
| gampel | additional update--> yuval and zhonghua-lee will propose a topic about smaug to openstack day in china | 14:08 |
| yuval | chenying here? | 14:09 |
| saggi | I submitted the patch for the meeting change but it hasn't gotten merged yet. Hopefully this is the last week the guys from china need to stay up late. :) | 14:09 |
| saggi | #topic china openstack day | 14:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "china openstack day (Meeting topic: smaug)" | 14:09 | |
| gampel | please share so we could vote | 14:09 |
| zhonghua-lee | gampel:yeah | 14:09 |
| saggi | Could you elaborate on what you intend to do there? | 14:09 |
| zhonghua-lee | gampel:but there still have some work to do | 14:10 |
| gampel | zhonghua-lee: yuval: what topics are you planing to propose ? | 14:10 |
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| zhonghua-lee | gampel: I am planning to present all the projects related protection that OpenStack have | 14:11 |
| yuval | We are proposing an introduction talk about Smaug. The intention is to give people idea what is smaug, how does it work, the difference and interface with other DR solutions | 14:11 |
| zhonghua-lee | gampel: we may think it over | 14:12 |
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| xiangxinyong | Architecture and high availability? may be this one | 14:12 |
| zhonghua-lee | yuval: yeah that's the important one | 14:12 |
| xiangxinyong | zhonghua-lee: :) | 14:12 |
| zhonghua-lee | yuval: especially the difference between Smaug and Freezer | 14:12 |
| gampel | xiangxinyong demo video could be part of it | 14:13 |
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| zhonghua-lee | xingxinyong:I think so, it should be part of the presentation | 14:14 |
| xiangxinyong | gampel: got iy | 14:14 |
| xiangxinyong | got it. | 14:14 |
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| saggi | #topic full stack testing | 14:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "full stack testing (Meeting topic: smaug)" | 14:15 | |
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| gampel | i noticed it is failing, does any one know why ? | 14:16 |
| saggi | How are the patches for $topic? We've got a important stuff being blocked on this. | 14:16 |
| yuval | chenying not here? | 14:16 |
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| zhonghua-lee | yuval:he is connecting | 14:17 |
| xiangxinyong | the failed reason is this patch. | 14:17 |
| xiangxinyong | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/323316/ | 14:17 |
| zhonghua-lee | yuval: as far as I know :) | 14:17 |
| xiangxinyong | I research it and find the novnv should be removed from the ci | 14:18 |
| gampel | Ok i saw that patch from chenying | 14:19 |
| saggi | So we're blocked on infra | 14:19 |
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| saggi | There was also a patch with misc fixes that was supposed to be related. | 14:19 |
| saggi | I asked for it to be split to several logical bits. | 14:19 |
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| chenying_ | hi | 14:20 |
| gampel | hi | 14:20 |
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| gampel | we were just talking about the CI (fullstack) | 14:20 |
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| saggi | chenying, what is preventing it from working? | 14:21 |
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| chenying_ | This afternoon, zhangshua and chenpengzhi have test protent/delte full test OK | 14:22 |
| chenying_ | Did they submit the patches? | 14:22 |
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| gampel | that's great news so we have end to end with cinder volume ? | 14:22 |
| yuval | We have this patch, which should fix the noVNC issue. Please review and +1 it: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/323316/ | 14:22 |
| saggi | As I said, I saw a huge patch of misc fixes. I asked for it to get split up. | 14:22 |
| yuval | (patch by xiangxinyong) | 14:23 |
| chenying_ | jikins check have problom, xiangxinyong have submit a patch to fix it. | 14:23 |
| chenying_ | As I said, I saw a huge patch of misc fixes. I asked for it to get split up. Yes I am splitint up it. | 14:23 |
| saggi | chenying, thanks! | 14:24 |
| chenying_ | Yes I am spliting up the patch. I will submit it later. | 14:24 |
| xiangxinyong | hi guys, about the fullstack. | 14:24 |
| xiangxinyong | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/owner:1523688226%2540qq.com+status:merged | 14:24 |
| xiangxinyong | these patches are merged by chenpengzi | 14:24 |
| xiangxinyong | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/323166/ | 14:25 |
| xiangxinyong | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/322725/ | 14:25 |
| xiangxinyong | these patches are reviewing by zhangshuai | 14:25 |
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| chenying_ | I have submited a patch about checkpoint delete. This flow works now. | 14:26 |
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| saggi | So we just need to tie up a few loose threads and then it should all work | 14:27 |
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| saggi | #topic patch splitting | 14:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "patch splitting (Meeting topic: smaug)" | 14:28 | |
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| saggi | I try and not be too strict about patches containing more than one fix | 14:28 |
| saggi | But it's becoming harder and harder to review | 14:29 |
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| saggi | Please make sure to take out parts of you patch that are unrelated to the core fix and can be submitted independently. | 14:29 |
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| saggi | It also makes more patches require to be manually rebased | 14:30 |
| yuval | May I add: write commit messages | 14:30 |
| saggi | +1 | 14:30 |
| gampel | the patch will be merged faster if it is small | 14:30 |
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| chenying_ | I think so | 14:30 |
| saggi | So try and get all the cleanups in a base patch and the complex logic in a patch on top of it | 14:30 |
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| gampel | we have currently 32 open patch for review | 14:31 |
| saggi | It will make things easier for everyone. Most of the time the base patches can just be merged and at least part of your change is now in master. | 14:31 |
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| saggi | If you don't already know about `git add -p` and `git reset -p` I suggest you read the man page. It will help you split up patches once you are done with a fix. | 14:32 |
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| xiangxinyong | saggi: thanks your guide | 14:33 |
| saggi | git is built to make this kind of stuff easy. | 14:33 |
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| saggi | #topic open discussion | 14:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: smaug)" | 14:34 | |
| saggi | Since we already did a team meeting yesterday there isn't much coordination to do. | 14:35 |
| saggi | Anyone else anything they want to raise? | 14:35 |
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| chenying_ | about the wiki and doc. saggi can you give a link to us? | 14:36 |
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| saggi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Smaug | 14:36 |
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| gampel | we need to add install Guide and maybe a tutorial how to use it | 14:37 |
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| chenying_ | the api docment Can we need write like othe project such as cinder ? | 14:37 |
| gampel | you mean in md file | 14:37 |
| saggi | chenying: I can try and generate it from the swagger yaml | 14:37 |
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| chenying_ | Ok | 14:38 |
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| gampel | saggi: we could convert the swag to html | 14:38 |
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| chenying_ | install Guide and maybe a tutorial how to use it I think I can do this work. | 14:38 |
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| saggi | xiangxinyong, do you have time to work on the user guide? | 14:38 |
| xiangxinyong456 | yeah. | 14:39 |
| zhonghua-lee | chenying_:please add me in | 14:39 |
| saggi | zhonghua-lee: Add you where? | 14:39 |
| gampel | https://github.com/swagger-api/swagger-codegen#generating-static-api-documentation | 14:39 |
| zhonghua-lee | saggi: document work | 14:39 |
| saggi | chenying, you can work on the install guide. | 14:39 |
| saggi | or zhonghua-lee | 14:39 |
| chenying_ | zhonghua-lee Do you have time to do this? | 14:40 |
| zhonghua-lee | saggi:ok | 14:40 |
| zhonghua-lee | chenying_: let's work together | 14:40 |
| chenying_ | Ok | 14:40 |
| chenying_ | we work together | 14:41 |
| saggi | Don't forget to add links to the wiki pages you make to the main wiki page. | 14:41 |
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| saggi | anything else? | 14:42 |
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| gampel | I think we need html view of the API | 14:42 |
| chenying_ | xiangxinyong I think we could plan to do integration testing with UI. what's your opinion? | 14:42 |
| saggi | I'll generate it from swagger | 14:42 |
| saggi | I should already have the tools installed | 14:42 |
| gampel | :) | 14:42 |
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| zhonghua-lee | chenying_: do you mean the manual test from UI? | 14:44 |
| xiangxinyong456 | chenying: i think it is not most important at present. | 14:44 |
| chenying_ | Net step I think most importent work is review. We need spent more time to review and get these patches marged ASAP. | 14:44 |
| saggi | +2 | 14:44 |
| yuval | chenying_: I agre3e | 14:44 |
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| xiangxinyong456 | +1 | 14:45 |
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| xiangxinyong456 | we should stable our present function | 14:45 |
| zengchen | hi, guys, please review my two patch which are listed in the trello. | 14:45 |
| saggi | BTW, tomorrow I'll be available an hour early on IRC from 10:00-11:00 IST which I think is 15:00 in China and then I'll be gone for the rest of the day. So try and be there if there are stuff you want me to look at. | 14:46 |
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| zengchen | saggi:got it. | 14:47 |
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| yuval | I'll be here all day, but on Thursday I'll be at the OpenStack Israel conference | 14:47 |
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| saggi | I'm going to try and be available for an hour or two the days I'm not working so that things don't get stuck but I need your help. Can't make any promises though. Finals month is next month :( | 14:48 |
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| saggi | OK, thanks everybody. | 14:48 |
| yuval | thanks | 14:48 |
| xiangxinyong456 | thanks guy | 14:48 |
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| saggi | #endmeeting | 14:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:49 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 31 14:49:13 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:49 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/smaug/2016/smaug.2016-05-31-14.01.html | 14:49 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/smaug/2016/smaug.2016-05-31-14.01.txt | 14:49 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/smaug/2016/smaug.2016-05-31-14.01.log.html | 14:49 |
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| sridhar_ram | #startmeeting tacker | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 31 16:00:53 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sridhar_ram. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tacker' | 16:00 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Roll Call | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:01 | |
| vishwanathj | o/ | 16:01 |
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| sridhar_ram | who is here ? | 16:01 |
| tbh | o/ | 16:01 |
| s3wong | o/ | 16:01 |
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| janki91 | o/ | 16:01 |
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| sripriya | o/ | 16:01 |
| tung_doan | o/ | 16:01 |
| sridhar_ram | howdy all ! Let's start... | 16:01 |
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| sridhar_ram | #topic Agenda | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:01 | |
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| sridhar_ram | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Tacker#Meeting_May_31.2C_2016 | 16:02 |
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| twm2016 | o/ | 16:02 |
| santoshk | Hi | 16:02 |
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| sridhar_ram | anything else to discuss beyond this ? | 16:02 |
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| sridhar_ram | twm2016: santoshk: hi | 16:02 |
| KanagarajM | hi | 16:02 |
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| sridhar_ram | BTW, going forward please suggest your agenda items few days before the meeting.. | 16:03 |
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| sridhar_ram | #topic Annoucements | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Annoucements (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:03 | |
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| sridhar_ram | We are at Newton release milestone 1 (m1) | 16:03 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: any session for alarm-based monitoring driver today? | 16:03 |
| sridhar_ram | #link http://releases.openstack.org/newton/schedule.html | 16:03 |
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| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: yes, we plan to discuss that .. important to get that going :) | 16:04 |
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| sridhar_ram | While we don't have a formal spec approval deadline, it is important to wrap up as many specs as possible within next couple of weeks. | 16:04 |
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| sridhar_ram | next .. | 16:05 |
| sridhar_ram | I'd like to welcome Lin Hua Cheng as a core member in tacker-horizon project, | 16:05 |
| sridhar_ram | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-May/096218.html | 16:05 |
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| vishwanathj | very good addition to the tacker-horizon project.... | 16:06 |
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| sridhar_ram | Lin is a core member in the main horizon project. He has been our go to person for things related to UI dashboard in Tacker. | 16:06 |
| sripriya | congrats lhcheng | 16:06 |
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| vishwanathj | lhcheng congrats | 16:06 |
| sridhar_ram | vishwanathj: indeed, thanks for introducing Lin to our team ! | 16:06 |
| santoshk | lhcheng congrats.. | 16:06 |
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| sridhar_ram | I can imagine interesting UI additions for our upcoming features.. particularly VNFFG ! | 16:07 |
| natarajk | Congrats lhcheng | 16:07 |
| sridhar_ram | moving on .. | 16:07 |
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| sridhar_ram | #topic Project Review Cadence | 16:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Project Review Cadence (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:07 | |
| sridhar_ram | couple of mins on this last min topic.. | 16:08 |
| sridhar_ram | We have received few offline suggestions to improve our review response time in this project. | 16:08 |
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| sridhar_ram | This is a valid request though the solution needs some collective effort. | 16:08 |
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| sridhar_ram | I'm open for ideas in this area.. | 16:08 |
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| sridhar_ram | as I see from my side, first, we need more time from the Tacker core team dedicated to reviews. | 16:09 |
| vishwanathj | sridhar_ram are there are any metrics that you can share | 16:09 |
| sridhar_ram | Second, the order in which patchsets are reviewed and merged. | 16:09 |
| sridhar_ram | One tool available in this area is the review report from stackalytics, | 16:09 |
| sridhar_ram | #link http://stackalytics.com/report/reviews/tacker-group/open | 16:09 |
| sridhar_ram | Keep an eye on the ones that are 'starved' with high response times. My hope is to drive down the average wait times. | 16:10 |
| vishwanathj | thanks for the link | 16:10 |
| sridhar_ram | Third, perhaps more impactful one, is to increase the core team strength. I'm looking for opportunities to do this as we get more committed team members. | 16:10 |
| sridhar_ram | If you are interested in working towards becoming a core team member in an openstack project, please do consider Tacker 8-) | 16:10 |
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| sridhar_ram | if you've other ideas, please drop a line.. thanks | 16:11 |
| sridhar_ram | moving on... | 16:11 |
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| sridhar_ram | lhcheng: welcome to Tacker core team! | 16:11 |
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| lhcheng | all, thanks for all the support! | 16:12 |
| KanagarajM | i think if core team could spare little more time daily, eventaully review will come to normal rate | 16:12 |
| janki91 | sridhar_ram: I am interested in contributing | 16:12 |
| lhcheng | would try my best to help :) | 16:12 |
| KanagarajM | lhcheng, congrats ! | 16:12 |
| tbh | congrats lhcheng | 16:12 |
| janki91 | sridhar_ram: I do solve bugs, would like to contribute to a feature though | 16:13 |
| vishwanathj | the core team that is small in number has done a great job.....have seen them review and merge over weekends as well | 16:13 |
| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: yes, I'd encourage tacker-core team spend more time reviewing... i'm personally planning to time box some time everyday for reviewing. | 16:13 |
| sridhar_ram | vishwanathj: thanks! | 16:14 |
| sridhar_ram | lets move on... | 16:14 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Spec progress round up | 16:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Spec progress round up (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:14 | |
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| sridhar_ram | janki91: sure, absolutely ! | 16:14 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Resource Audit Logs | 16:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Resource Audit Logs (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:14 | |
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| sridhar_ram | the new kid in the block.. | 16:15 |
| sridhar_ram | vishwanathj: KanagarajM: can you guys give a quick update ? | 16:15 |
| vishwanathj | KanagarajM and I had a very productive discussion last week and this week..... | 16:15 |
| vishwanathj | we now have a spec at a stage that is ready for review and feedback | 16:15 |
| KanagarajM | yeah, i really flet good dicussion and it helped to fine tune the spec | 16:16 |
| sridhar_ram | vishwanathj: cool, link please | 16:16 |
| vishwanathj | KanagarajM please feel free to chime in.....https://review.openstack.org/#/c/321370/ | 16:16 |
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| trozet | hi tacker team, joining late | 16:17 |
| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: vishwanathj : great, thanks for getting this going | 16:17 |
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| sridhar_ram | trozet: np, we are about to get to VNFFG soon..! | 16:17 |
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| trozet | cool | 16:17 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Networking-SFC driver | 16:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Networking-SFC driver (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:18 | |
| sridhar_ram | VNFFG spec from trozet merged .. https://review.openstack.org/292196 | 16:18 |
| trozet | thanks everyone reviews and getting it through | 16:18 |
| trozet | for reviews* | 16:19 |
| vishwanathj | trozet nice work | 16:19 |
| sridhar_ram | now, we need to complete the food chain further down.. the networking-sfc driver.. | 16:19 |
| sridhar_ram | #link https://review.openstack.org/290771 | 16:19 |
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| sridhar_ram | s3wong: can you give an update ? | 16:19 |
| sridhar_ram | is Louis is in the channel ? | 16:20 |
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| sridhar_ram | trozet: did you had a chance to review this spec ? | 16:20 |
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| trozet | sridhar_ram: not the latest patch set, will do it today | 16:21 |
| sridhar_ram | trozet: okay, thanks...! | 16:21 |
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| sridhar_ram | s3wong: are you here ? | 16:22 |
| sridhar_ram | i'll follow up w/ the networking-sfc team offline.. | 16:22 |
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| sridhar_ram | lets move on... | 16:22 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Alarm based monitoring | 16:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Alarm based monitoring (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:23 | |
| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: can you give an update on your spec ? | 16:23 |
| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: are things clear from architecture, scope and work items for this spec .. ? | 16:23 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: I already update new patchset.. please see https://review.openstack.org/#/c/306562/9/specs/newton/alarm-based-monitoring-driver.rst | 16:24 |
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| sridhar_ram | okay.. we can spend rest of this meeting to talk about this spec and the related auto-scaling... | 16:24 |
| tung_doan | In this spec, the alarm based monitoring should be generic framework | 16:25 |
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| sridhar_ram | looking at the diagram at L45.. what you think the interface between the different components... | 16:26 |
| tung_doan | sridhar: In real implemenntation, I will go with Ceilometer first | 16:26 |
| sridhar_ram | VNFM plugin <---> alarm-f/w <--> [Ceilometer, ...] | 16:26 |
| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: sounds good... | 16:27 |
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| sridhar_ram | question to tung_doan and team... does alarm-framework be a separate process taking to main tacker-server using RPCs ? | 16:27 |
| sridhar_ram | s/be a/need to be a/ | 16:28 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: that is what i have in mind as well | 16:28 |
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| sridhar_ram | s/taking/talking/ | 16:28 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: monitor/alarm should be a separate module of its own emitting events | 16:28 |
| sridhar_ram | sripriya: I see... | 16:28 |
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| sridhar_ram | tacker-server is already overloaded with lots of in-process threads | 16:29 |
| KanagarajM | i feel its better to split api and plugins over RPC | 16:29 |
| sripriya | sridhar_Ram: before all this, we need to extract our monitor monolithic file out of vm dir. and carve a module for this | 16:29 |
| KanagarajM | but it might be BIG thing to go ! | 16:29 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: i created a RFE to refactor it | 16:29 |
| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: yes, we need to do that.. but exactly.. it is a BIG thing, perhaps for Ocata | 16:29 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: regrading to the intefarce, tacker monitoring driver can use Ceilometer alarm interface and Monaca alarm interface.. Once we go with Ceilomester, monasca is the same | 16:30 |
| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, ok | 16:30 |
| sridhar_ram | however, we can be oppurtunistic and introduce some new features with that future decomposition in mind | 16:30 |
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| KanagarajM | tung_doan, only thing to abstact, while defining the TOSCA model for alarm based monitoring, better to keep it generic | 16:31 |
| sridhar_ram | future (Ocata) we could decompose to api , plugin and alarm/mon f/w in separate scalable processes | 16:31 |
| KanagarajM | tung_doan, instead of carrying the ceilometer jargan to it. b | 16:31 |
| sripriya | yes, +1 | 16:31 |
| sridhar_ram | +1 | 16:32 |
| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, yes, that is good plan | 16:32 |
| tung_doan | KanagarajM: agree | 16:32 |
| sridhar_ram | near term (Newton) tacker-server (api, pluging) and alarm-mon f/w process .. | 16:32 |
| sridhar_ram | is this doable ? | 16:32 |
| sripriya | tbh: ^^ VIM could be using this monitoring framework as well | 16:33 |
| sridhar_ram | bobh_: ^^ | 16:33 |
| tbh | sripriya, yes we can leverage to use this framework too | 16:34 |
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| sridhar_ram | tbh: sripriya: it could be a follow on .. but let's not add too much to tung_doan spec / scope ! | 16:35 |
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| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, yes, i feel its better to bring in the feature (alarm) then we could latter make into seprate process | 16:36 |
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| sripriya | sridhar_ram: yes, it need not be dependent, but just to keep in mind of how it could evolve | 16:36 |
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| sridhar_ram | sripriya: sure | 16:36 |
| tbh | sridhar_ram, no at present I am trying to check reachability only. But once we implement monitoring fw, we can leverage VIM monitoring part, it won't disturb the spec I think | 16:37 |
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| sridhar_ram | tbh: sure, as a follow on.. | 16:37 |
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| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: I'd like to hear your thoughts .. on separating alarm mon to separate process as part of your spec. | 16:38 |
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| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: you think it is better to bring-in this feature into the current monolithic tacker-server first and then break it out as a separate process ? | 16:38 |
| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, yes, bec, IMO, when we bring the RPC in place, it would make it simple to impl | 16:39 |
| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, so in O release, we easily make it. I hope :) | 16:40 |
| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: okay... | 16:40 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: agree wuth KanagarajM | 16:40 |
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| sridhar_ram | sripriya: i know you are looking at refactoring tasks... does this sound reasonable ? | 16:40 |
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| sripriya | sridhar_ram: i would still hope to remove the actions out of monitor module as a day 0 refactoring just to get things started | 16:41 |
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| sripriya | sridhar_ram: we need not do a full fledged refactoring of monitor framework this cycle | 16:42 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: i will do take that ASAP | 16:42 |
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| sridhar_ram | sripriya: what you mean by "remove actions out of monitor module" | 16:43 |
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| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: same question | 16:43 |
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| sripriya | sridhar_ram: i'm referring to log and respawn action logic that are in monitor file | 16:43 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: given scaling spec is coming in, scale out scale in can be other actions | 16:44 |
| sridhar_ram | sripriya: ah, you mean.. move them into say, separate files in our code tree ? | 16:44 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: it is better to have a separate interface for these actions than integrating them into our monitor fie | 16:44 |
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| sridhar_ram | sripriya: agree.. | 16:44 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: thats correct, but i'm open to people' thoughts | 16:45 |
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| sridhar_ram | So, the conclusion i'm hearing, atleast so far, is to bring in the "new features" like alarm-based mon, scaling using existing single process architecture... | 16:46 |
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| KanagarajM | +1 | 16:46 |
| sridhar_ram | .. and then have a follow on specs to re-architecture tacker into decomposable / scalable function (api, plugin, mon) | 16:46 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: agree | 16:46 |
| sridhar_ram | perhaps we can start this re-arch work later half of newton and deliver it in O-release | 16:47 |
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| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: so, this means getting the correct interfaces between VNFM --> alarm-mon --> Ceilometer is important | 16:48 |
| sridhar_ram | please review the latest alarm-mon spec from tung_doan with this discussion in mind.. | 16:48 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: sure | 16:48 |
| sridhar_ram | moving on.. | 16:48 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Scaling | 16:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Scaling (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:48 | |
| KanagarajM | https://review.openstack.org/318577 | 16:49 |
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| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: before talking about Scaling... | 16:49 |
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| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: ... thank you so much for your contributions beyond Scaling... much appreciated ! | 16:49 |
| sripriya | a big +1 | 16:49 |
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| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, thanks, i really like to work in tacker as technology and team :) | 16:50 |
| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: :) | 16:50 |
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| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, i am addressing your comments and having some questions asked | 16:50 |
| KanagarajM | sripriya, thanks :) | 16:50 |
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| KanagarajM | like whether to giving caling per vdu or per VNFD? | 16:51 |
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| KanagarajM | *scaling | 16:51 |
| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: I had similar thoughts on VDU scaling vs VNF scaling... | 16:51 |
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| sridhar_ram | If a VNF has only one VDU.. then mapping is trivial | 16:52 |
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| KanagarajM | yeah, but in other cases | 16:53 |
| qwebirc81199 | Have we talked about containers and microservices yet? | 16:53 |
| KanagarajM | sonus, shall we go in phases | 16:53 |
| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, now introduce the scaling at VDU level first | 16:53 |
| sridhar_ram | BTW, we need to nail the TOSCA portion of this spec...some scaling policies have "targets: [VDU1, VDU2, ...] | 16:53 |
| KanagarajM | and once its in place, then extend it to VNF | 16:53 |
| sridhar_ram | qwebirc81199: can you clarify your question please ? | 16:54 |
| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, yeah i tried to go thru the NFV scaling part and it does like this, | 16:54 |
| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram and team, your suggestions | 16:55 |
| * sridhar_ram notes 5 mins left... | 16:55 | |
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| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: this question is specific to manual scaling, correct ? | 16:56 |
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| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, no, in both manual & auto, it would applicable. | 16:57 |
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| sridhar_ram | okay... i think we can take this back to the gerrit review.. | 16:57 |
| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, sure. | 16:58 |
| sridhar_ram | Team - please review the scaling spec... | 16:58 |
| sridhar_ram | moving on... | 16:58 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Open Discussion | 16:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:58 | |
| KanagarajM | ok, i have a topic https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/tacker-db | 16:58 |
| KanagarajM | i'm trying to optimze the db schema | 16:58 |
| * sridhar_ram looking up... | 16:58 | |
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| KanagarajM | as i felt its good to optimze now than latter.. | 16:59 |
| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: agree... | 16:59 |
| sripriya | KanagarajM: very cool, yes. | 16:59 |
| sridhar_ram | times up folks.. | 17:00 |
| sridhar_ram | thanks all for joining! | 17:00 |
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| sridhar_ram | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 31 17:00:24 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-05-31-16.00.html | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-05-31-16.00.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-05-31-16.00.log.html | 17:00 |
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| mmedvede | #startmeeting third-party | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 31 17:00:57 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mmedvede. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 17:01 |
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| asselin | hi mmedvede | 17:01 |
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| mmedvede | hi asselin | 17:01 |
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| mmedvede | nothing new on agenda for this week's meeting | 17:02 |
| ja3 | howdy ho | 17:02 |
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| ja3 | there must be an internet meme for that state of affairs, misha. | 17:02 |
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| mmedvede | #link meeting agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ThirdParty | 17:03 |
| mmedvede | hey ja3 | 17:03 |
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| ja3 | actually "nothing new on agenda" works well for me, I have to ditch in about 10 minutes | 17:04 |
| mmedvede | #topic CI Watch | 17:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "CI Watch (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:04 | |
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| mmedvede | I did decide to rework the long patch series I have on unit-tests branch to address asselin 's comments and to simplify | 17:04 |
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| mmedvede | I'd like to merge land patches without it becoming a long chain | 17:05 |
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| asselin | mmedvede, yeah saw a bunch of related e-mail this morning. Any specific reviews you need? +1 on landing smaller merges, if possible. | 17:06 |
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| mmedvede | asselin: please give a quick look to this one, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/267980/ | 17:06 |
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| mmedvede | if you +1, I'll merge it | 17:06 |
| mmedvede | so we get it moving | 17:07 |
| asselin | will take a loook | 17:07 |
| mmedvede | thank you | 17:07 |
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| mmedvede | #topic Common-CI Solution | 17:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Common-CI Solution (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:08 | |
| mmedvede | I did not see anything new | 17:08 |
| mmedvede | asselin: any updates? | 17:08 |
| asselin | seems stable now. saravana had issues on the mailing list, but no replies yet. | 17:09 |
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| mmedvede | thanks | 17:09 |
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| mmedvede | #topic Open Discussion | 17:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:09 | |
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| ja3 | bob is starting to construct our dev CI using the latest upstream infra so we can converge prod CI to it | 17:10 |
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| mmedvede | ja3: are you using openstackci? | 17:10 |
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| mmedvede | *puppet-openstackci | 17:10 |
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| ja3 | I think that's his intent. latest+greatest. | 17:11 |
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| asselin | anyone know what's going on with this patch? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/239810/ | 17:12 |
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| ja3 | not me | 17:12 |
| mmedvede | asselin: no | 17:12 |
| mmedvede | looks like it has not been updated lately | 17:12 |
| asselin | no...getting stalled since last -1 | 17:13 |
| mmedvede | I wonder if the work should be split into bite-size pieces, like migrate single thing to common CI | 17:14 |
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| ja3 | I have to drop, see you folks in 2 wks. | 17:14 |
| mmedvede | I personally just deployed graphite/grafana | 17:14 |
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| mmedvede | so I think it is useful for other operators | 17:14 |
| mmedvede | ja3, thanks for being here | 17:14 |
| asselin | mmedvede, yeah that's a good point. It is a bit too open-ended. | 17:15 |
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| mmedvede | asselin: I did not have time to work on the spec, and probably would not have time in near future | 17:17 |
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| asselin | mmedvede, if you could add your comment ^^ I think that can help. | 17:18 |
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| asselin | add to the patch | 17:18 |
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| mmedvede | bump it :) | 17:19 |
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| mmedvede | asselin: also, I still think I need to remove the logstash/elastic search puppet that has landed in puppet-openstaci | 17:19 |
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| mmedvede | and abandon the other patch that removes it from system-config | 17:20 |
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| asselin | mmedvede, why's that? | 17:20 |
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| mmedvede | it was supposed to be an atomic change - as soon as it landed, it should have been removed from system-config | 17:20 |
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| mmedvede | now there are two copies | 17:21 |
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| mmedvede | and they have diverged a lot | 17:21 |
| * asselin sighs | 17:21 | |
| mmedvede | yeah | 17:21 |
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| mmedvede | in retrospect it should have been smaller change, not entire elk moved | 17:22 |
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| asselin | there's 3 manifests | 17:23 |
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| asselin | so you'd prefer to do each separately? | 17:24 |
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| mmedvede | yes | 17:25 |
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| mmedvede | if we still would move it. it needs to be smaller pieces | 17:25 |
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| asselin | ok, maybe we should discuss with more folks. perhaps in the infra meeting? | 17:25 |
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| mmedvede | yes | 17:26 |
| mmedvede | I am checking agenda to see if there is a spot | 17:26 |
| asselin | today's agenda is light. we can add it | 17:26 |
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| mmedvede | asselin: I'll add it. thanks for bringing it up | 17:27 |
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| asselin | cool | 17:27 |
| mmedvede | I have another thing | 17:28 |
| mmedvede | (should have added to agenda) | 17:28 |
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| mmedvede | zuul-merge hangups | 17:28 |
| mmedvede | I brought it up during another meeting last week | 17:28 |
| mmedvede | and noone seemed to have seen the problem | 17:29 |
| asselin | I haven't seen it either....what's the issue? | 17:29 |
| rcarrillocruz | hey folks | 17:29 |
| rcarrillocruz | randomly reading | 17:29 |
| rcarrillocruz | so, i chatted with pschwartz at the meeting | 17:30 |
| mmedvede | hi rcarrillocruz | 17:30 |
| asselin | rcarrillocruz, yeah ricky | 17:30 |
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| rcarrillocruz | he told me he planned to get back to that spec | 17:30 |
| rcarrillocruz | to sort out -1s, etc | 17:30 |
| rcarrillocruz | hey asselin :-) | 17:30 |
| rcarrillocruz | to be fair, nibalizer comments are spot on | 17:31 |
| rcarrillocruz | i had same opinion and removed the server abstraction in a previous patchset | 17:31 |
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| rcarrillocruz | but per yolanda's comment, i refused to get into that rabbit hole | 17:31 |
| rcarrillocruz | imho, server abstraction should be out of puppet-openstackci | 17:31 |
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| rcarrillocruz | that should be a downstream thing | 17:31 |
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| rcarrillocruz | creating an interface to server seems a bit unnecessary to me | 17:32 |
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| mmedvede | I need to reread the spec. But what you are saying makes sense to me | 17:32 |
| mmedvede | server class should not be part of openstackci | 17:32 |
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| mmedvede | server setup is specific to each environment | 17:34 |
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| mmedvede | rcarrillocruz: thanks for the update | 17:35 |
| rcarrillocruz | np | 17:35 |
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| mmedvede | asselin: on zuul-merger: git fetch is basically taking upwards 15 minutes to get changes off of review.o.o. Maybe you would not notice if you are not looking for it | 17:36 |
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| mmedvede | my workaround so far is to detect the stall and to kill the ssh process that is hanging | 17:37 |
| asselin | cbader, have you noticed this ^^ ? | 17:37 |
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| asselin | i'll follow up with him later | 17:40 |
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| mmedvede | I mentioned I'll get an email out once I have something tangible, nothing I can see so far. At least the workaround works | 17:41 |
| mmedvede | asselin: thanks | 17:41 |
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| mmedvede | this is all on zuul-merger topic | 17:41 |
| asselin | ack | 17:43 |
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| mmedvede | if nothing else to discuss, see you here in 2 weeks | 17:44 |
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| mmedvede | thank you for attending | 17:45 |
| mmedvede | #endmeeting | 17:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:45 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 31 17:45:26 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:45 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-05-31-17.00.html | 17:45 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-05-31-17.00.txt | 17:45 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-05-31-17.00.log.html | 17:45 |
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| asselin | thanks mmedvede | 17:46 |
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| * lbragstad wanders in early | 17:57 | |
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| notmorgan | lbragstad: it's not early. | 18:00 |
| henrynash | big ben strikes.... | 18:00 |
| notmorgan | lbragstad: also.. congrats you're now on the hook for running the meeting | 18:00 |
| notmorgan | lbragstad: :P | 18:00 |
| * lbragstad slowly wanders towards the door | 18:01 | |
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| henrynash | the ‘ol “first person to ask who is running the meeting gets the job” approach | 18:01 |
| notmorgan | ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, crinkle, claudiub, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, joesavak, jorge_munoz, knikolla, lbragstad, lhcheng, marekd, MaxPC, morgan, nkinder, notmorgan, raildo, rodrigods, rderose, roxanaghe, samleon, samueldmq, shaleh, stevemar, tjcocozz, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong, xek | 18:01 |
| rodrigods | o/ | 18:01 |
| raildo | o/ | 18:01 |
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| samueldmq | howdy | 18:02 |
| ayoung | woo hoo | 18:02 |
| amakarov | hi | 18:02 |
| samueldmq | o/ | 18:02 |
| gyee | \o | 18:02 |
| notmorgan | ttps://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting | 18:02 |
| breton_ | o/ | 18:02 |
| notmorgan | erm... | 18:02 |
| ayoung | notmorgan, no jamielennox running it today? | 18:02 |
| jamielennox | i'm here | 18:02 |
| notmorgan | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting | 18:02 |
| notmorgan | ayoung: i'm not running it, just collecting people | 18:02 |
| jamielennox | just | 18:02 |
| nk2527 | o/ | 18:02 |
| jamielennox | #startmeeting keystone | 18:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 31 18:02:52 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jamielennox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:02 |
| lhcheng | o/ | 18:03 |
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| jamielennox | hey everybody | 18:03 |
| jamielennox | quick reminder as with last week that the spec proposal freeze is this week | 18:03 |
| rodrigods | hi jamesmcarthur | 18:03 |
| rderose_ | o/ | 18:03 |
| rodrigods | oops | 18:03 |
| dolphm | ooh, damn, i have one to get up | 18:03 |
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| rodrigods | jamielennox, | 18:03 |
| jamielennox | hopefully there is nothing still outstanding that wants to get up this cycle | 18:04 |
| jamielennox | :) | 18:04 |
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| amakarov | week of new ideas: the new ideas growth is doubled this week :) | 18:04 |
| jamielennox | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting | 18:04 |
| jamielennox | #topic Multiple datacenters | 18:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Multiple datacenters (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:05 | |
| jamielennox | agrebennikov, amakarov: all yours | 18:05 |
| nonameentername | o/ | 18:05 |
| agrebennikov | jamielennox, I guess we discussed it last week after meeting | 18:05 |
| dstanek | o/ | 18:05 |
| amakarov | I've created a spec for ayoung patch (see etherpad ^) | 18:05 |
| nk2527 | o/ | 18:05 |
| agrebennikov | and ayoung's comment was "create a spec if you need it " | 18:05 |
| agrebennikov | amakarov, I believe it is there | 18:06 |
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| ayoung | does anyone really have a problem with a cloud admin being able to create a project with a specificID? | 18:06 |
| amakarov | agrebennikov: https://review.openstack.org/323499 | 18:06 |
| ayoung | ACKing that we would need a microversion anyway? | 18:06 |
| notmorgan | ayoung: no, not as a break-glass scenario as long as it conforms (uuid) | 18:06 |
| amakarov | ayoung: I believe there were no complains in API v2 | 18:06 |
| henrynash | ayoung: microversion spec approved! | 18:07 |
| gyee | done done | 18:07 |
| jamielennox | ayoung: the only case i'm comfortable with is the restore a project so you can deleete its resources | 18:07 |
| agrebennikov | heyhey! | 18:07 |
| ayoung | henrynash, we were pretty close to microversion compliant thus far anyway | 18:07 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, what about syncing two sites? | 18:07 |
| jamielennox | personally i think that's a keystone-manage command but ok | 18:07 |
| notmorgan | jamielennox: that would be the use-case imo. but you kindof open the door to lots of things. | 18:07 |
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| shaleh | vanity IDs for one | 18:07 |
| jamielennox | ayoung: nope, there's a bunch of ways to do syncing that we shouldn't touch | 18:07 |
| jamielennox | shaleh: nope | 18:07 |
| notmorgan | jamielennox: and i am *ok* with the ability being added, not specific to where/how it makes it into the db. | 18:07 |
| gyee | in that case, why stop at project, why not ALL IDs? | 18:08 |
| shaleh | jamielennox: not saying I support them :-) | 18:08 |
| notmorgan | gyee: honestly, i think this is a case of backing away from the remove the row on delete | 18:08 |
| amakarov | so what are the objection? | 18:08 |
| ayoung | are we limiting it to projects ? | 18:08 |
| notmorgan | in general | 18:08 |
| jamielennox | gyee: exactly, currently projects is all that is required because they can LDAP backend the rest - but that's just the current pain point | 18:08 |
| amakarov | ayoung: this is the current need | 18:08 |
| notmorgan | gyee: but.... | 18:08 |
| ayoung | not users, .... roles ... meh the ids for roles should be the role names | 18:08 |
| notmorgan | ok hold on | 18:09 |
| ayoung | uuids are dumb there | 18:09 |
| gyee | jamielennox, I worry about consistency | 18:09 |
| gyee | special cases = magic | 18:09 |
| notmorgan | "restore" is off the table as part of this discussion right now | 18:09 |
| jamielennox | not sure why you can't LDAP backend the projects but whatever | 18:09 |
| notmorgan | this is the API need amakarov is asking for | 18:09 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, we killed that off | 18:09 |
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| amakarov | ayoung: ++ | 18:09 |
| notmorgan | to have consistent ids across different deployments in keystone | 18:09 |
| notmorgan | so. | 18:09 |
| henrynash | so let’s review the conceptual objection to this….since we now know of multiple requirements (which various of us may or may not think important) | 18:09 |
| notmorgan | on that topic | 18:09 |
| notmorgan | what is the feeling? | 18:10 |
| notmorgan | this is clearly an API change. | 18:10 |
| ayoung | what is the risk? | 18:10 |
| gyee | I don't have a problem with it, I understand the objective, but the argument seem pretty weak | 18:10 |
| henrynash | I think the conceptual objection was to avoid collisions across clouds? | 18:10 |
| notmorgan | henrynash: no. | 18:10 |
| ayoung | I go to a remote system, create a project with a deliberate UUID, and the thing already exists... | 18:10 |
| ayoung | that was probably deliberately done | 18:11 |
| notmorgan | henrynash: to have the same resources (projects, by id) in multiple deplyments | 18:11 |
| ayoung | cuz...uuid clash... not too likely | 18:11 |
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| notmorgan | if a uuid collides | 18:11 |
| jamielennox | notmorgan: more i don't like the precendent of having different subsets of data present in different keystones | 18:11 |
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| lbragstad | this allows for more than just making sure the same id exists in a single keystone - for that case wouldn't you just share the resource backend? | 18:11 |
| notmorgan | i'll buy the next round of drinks for the entire keystone team at the summit | 18:11 |
| gyee | if DB replication is not an options because 1) too expensive, 2) unreliable, and 3) error prone | 18:11 |
| notmorgan | the whole team. (everyone here) | 18:11 |
| gyee | then lets say it in the spec | 18:11 |
| ayoung | notmorgan, like I said, its probably deliberate | 18:11 |
| rodrigods | you could be bolder notmorgan | 18:11 |
| jamielennox | assuming that because you can create a project in another keystone that you can just use that keystone as if it was the original | 18:11 |
| dstanek | jamielennox: ++ that worries me | 18:11 |
| jamielennox | it's not | 18:11 |
| rodrigods | everyone in -meeting maybe | 18:12 |
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| henrynash | notmorgan: that’s the specific requirement here….weve discused this on many occasions, but always felt uncomfortabtle…just trying to (re)flush out the ojections | 18:12 |
| notmorgan | rodrigods: sure. | 18:12 |
| jamielennox | it doesn't have the roles or any other information | 18:12 |
| ayoung | but that could be done today with V2 | 18:12 |
| jamielennox | domains will suffer the same proble | 18:12 |
| jamielennox | and it can be done today with either a custom backend or a working database sync | 18:12 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, I feel that your new role is the "I say no to things" person. | 18:12 |
| notmorgan | ayoung: someone has to do it | 18:13 |
| jamielennox | but i don't want keystone to figure out how to provide keystone sync-ing via PAI | 18:13 |
| jamielennox | API | 18:13 |
| jamielennox | because i'm still not sure why project is special from other things that would need to be transfered to effective duplicate a keystone deployment | 18:13 |
| gyee | jamielennox, ++ | 18:13 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, why not. We really don't provide people with sufficient tools for K2K yet | 18:14 |
| notmorgan | so specifically on this topic, there has been a lot of asking for this feature. because when a cloud has a new deployment they want to have the customer in the same project. and they don't sync keystones. | 18:14 |
| notmorgan | i don't know if this is a usecase we need to solve? | 18:14 |
| lbragstad | didn't we have an action item from the last meeting to see what about our federation implementation was preventing this? | 18:14 |
| agrebennikov | jamielennox, because users are the same in the backend, and roles are pretty static | 18:14 |
| notmorgan | jamielennox: and roles are referenced by name, not id, outside of keystone. | 18:15 |
| jamielennox | agrebennikov: "same backend"? why not put projects in this same backend that works? | 18:15 |
| gyee | lbragstad, right | 18:15 |
| agrebennikov | jamielennox, I'd love to have them in ldap! | 18:15 |
| lbragstad | gyee do you know if/where that list of short-comings is? | 18:15 |
| jamielennox | notmorgan: i don't understand your use case | 18:16 |
| ayoung | With K2K, we need some form of sync. And we need to map from local to remote. THat could be done by naming, or could be done by ID | 18:16 |
| gyee | lbragstad, no, I was hoping to see them in the spec | 18:16 |
| dstanek | agrebennikov: you can't assume that users are in LDAP | 18:16 |
| ayoung | dstanek, why not? | 18:16 |
| dstanek | so jamielennox's question is valid...how is project different from other data | 18:16 |
| ayoung | projects in LDAP was based on an assumption that is no longer valid | 18:16 |
| jamielennox | agrebennikov: so do it :) we may not provide the backend upstream but there's nothing stopping you from doing what works for your case | 18:16 |
| dstanek | ayoung: like it or not we still support other backends | 18:16 |
| ayoung | if we do resources in LDAP, we need to redesign, and I would not recommend that | 18:16 |
| notmorgan | jamielennox: i'm just echoing what i've been asked for. | 18:16 |
| ayoung | dstanek, that is not the same thing | 18:17 |
| agrebennikov | dstanek, right, if they are not the rest of the stuff doesn't make any sense, since it will not be "clouds in sync" usecase | 18:17 |
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| ayoung | LDAP users and groups should not be tied to assignments in the LDAP backend | 18:17 |
| jamielennox | notmorgan: i mean i'm not understanding what's being asked for, 'customer in the same project' why does this involve preset uuids? | 18:17 |
| notmorgan | jamielennox: oh hold on. customer HAVING the same uuid (project) for ease of access | 18:18 |
| ayoung | we go out of our way to be hostile to users...UUIDs are not pleasant things to work with | 18:18 |
| ayoung | remember the whole Killer for dynamic policy? | 18:18 |
| notmorgan | ok so. | 18:18 |
| ayoung | "Don't make use add an endpoint, get the uuid, and stick that in the config fil" | 18:18 |
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| notmorgan | i think this feature is asking for something that opens weird edge cases and doesn't solve them. | 18:19 |
| ayoung | notmorgan, that was already open | 18:19 |
| notmorgan | basically there is nothing to prevent name collisions in domains if both are active. | 18:19 |
| notmorgan | for domains* | 18:19 |
| notmorgan | you have the same issues with domains. | 18:19 |
| henrynash | ayoung: so although I wasn’t thinking about this use case, the spec I’m working on might help here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/318605/4 | 18:19 |
| notmorgan | you have the same issues with user_ids. | 18:19 |
| ayoung | henrynash, yep | 18:20 |
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| ayoung | notmorgan, I have the same issues with everything! | 18:20 |
| notmorgan | i really don't think we can reliably say this is a good plan - creating specific ID'd resources across multiple installations that don't share the authoritative data backend | 18:20 |
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| henrynash | ayoung: this would certainy allow project scopig without eitehr domain ID or project ID | 18:20 |
| notmorgan | you need far more syncronization than just project ids... to the level of "not something keystone should figure specifically" imo | 18:21 |
| lbragstad | notmorgan that sounds like federation | 18:21 |
| ayoung | notmorgan, you also need role assignments, etc | 18:21 |
| dolphm | i think the spec i want to post for newton will actually address this rather elegantly -- what's the spec proposal deadline exactly, end of week? | 18:21 |
| ayoung | you can do it with out IDs. Just not via K2K | 18:21 |
| ayoung | dolphm, yep | 18:21 |
| notmorgan | lbragstad: federation would be the logical goal to solve this imo. | 18:21 |
| henrynash | so to pick up on ayoungs: point, what if you didn’t need to use projectIDs to auth…would that solve this use case? | 18:21 |
| jamielennox | dolphm: yes | 18:22 |
| ayoung | dolphm, what's the gist of it? | 18:22 |
| ayoung | notmorgan, then we need to seriously look at cleaning up the mapping mechanism | 18:22 |
| agrebennikov | notmorgan, but is is allowed for users (since they may be inthe same backend), and All others Must be different. Or federation. No other options | 18:22 |
| dolphm | ayoung: leverage shadow users and make the mapping engine way more powerful | 18:22 |
| amakarov | lbragstad: there is a place on Earth where peaple are killing eachother for that word | 18:22 |
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| amakarov | people* | 18:22 |
| jamielennox | notmorgan, lbragstad: federation is a difficult thing to set up here because you would need to map every project to every other project - and then assume things like horizon can make the jump | 18:22 |
| jamielennox | it's not a transparent operation | 18:23 |
| dstanek | that's what i think we are missing. that sort of project mapping. | 18:23 |
| dolphm | ayoung: user presents keystone with a saml doc, keystone creates a shadow user, maybe creates a project, maybe even creates a role, then does a role assignment... all according to the mapping engine output | 18:23 |
| gyee | we support project mapping today | 18:23 |
| notmorgan | dolphm: that sound sreasonable | 18:23 |
| notmorgan | at face value (i'd need to see more obviously) | 18:23 |
| dstanek | i think talking about this as a sync is going down the wrong path | 18:23 |
| amakarov | jamielennox: the strait-forward way is to allow usage of wildcards and aliases in mappings | 18:23 |
| ayoung | dolphm, so..in order to makethat manageable, we need to limit "this is what you canmap TO" | 18:24 |
| lbragstad | dolphm so building on our current mapping engine | 18:24 |
| amakarov | I'm not sure we want that ) | 18:24 |
| ayoung | and make it so IdP admins can manage their own mapping files | 18:24 |
| dolphm | lbragstad: ++ | 18:24 |
| notmorgan | ok so, going to call time box on this in 5 minutes. | 18:24 |
| jamielennox | amakarov: yea, ew could improve the mapper to handle something like that properly i just don't think it will today | 18:24 |
| henrynash | ayoung: we need that anyway, imho | 18:24 |
| dolphm | ayoung: i'd like to see a stronger constraints around domains to manage that | 18:24 |
| ayoung | henrynash, ++ | 18:24 |
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| ayoung | idp to domain associations | 18:24 |
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| henrynash | ayoung: actually, i’ll raise a spec for that anyway | 18:25 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: basically yes. so a domain admin is also free to manage a mapping | 18:25 |
| ayoung | this idp can map to domain X,y,z butn not p,d,or q | 18:25 |
| agrebennikov | folks, don't you think federation setup will dramatically slow down the process of authorization in production? | 18:25 |
| notmorgan | generally speaking, as an API, I am against user-provided IDs. | 18:25 |
| amakarov | agrebennikov: ++ | 18:25 |
| ayoung | agrebennikov, nope | 18:25 |
| notmorgan | ayoung, dolphm, henrynash: lets see what the federation spec looks like before we dive too far into it, but it sounds like an option | 18:25 |
| dolphm | notmorgan: you don't love race conditions? | 18:25 |
| dstanek | amakarov: are you alredy solving your usecase and just looking to upstream the idea? or have you not started to do it yet? | 18:26 |
| notmorgan | dolphm: hehe | 18:26 |
| ayoung | agrebennikov, look at the Federation via SSSD and Mod_lookup_+identity setup I did a few years ago | 18:26 |
| ayoung | no slower than LDAP, and much cleaner | 18:26 |
| ayoung | https://adam.younglogic.com/2014/05/keystone-federation-via-mod_lookup_identity/ | 18:26 |
| dolphm | amakarov: your use case on the mailing list is exactly what i have in mind | 18:26 |
| dstanek | agrebennikov: it shouldn't | 18:26 |
| amakarov | dstanek: I'm sticking to upstream wherever possible | 18:26 |
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| agrebennikov | ayoung, I mean if every time user tries to authorize in one cloud it has to call to remote keystone | 18:26 |
| dolphm | s/wherever possible// | 18:27 |
| dstanek | amakarov: ok, was just going to see about any experiments you've done | 18:27 |
| amakarov | dolphm: thanks ) | 18:27 |
| dstanek | agrebennikov: not authorize, just authenticate | 18:27 |
| jamielennox | ayoung: explain to me from before why you think you couldn't implent a custom LDAP resource backend? | 18:27 |
| agrebennikov | dstanek, we are talking about projects, rigth? | 18:27 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, OK, so when I first did LDAP Identity and Assignment were in a single backend | 18:27 |
| notmorgan | amakarov: fwiw, this really sounds like db replication is the solution (or LDAP backend, or anything with replication) | 18:27 |
| dstanek | agrebennikov: once you have a token for the cloud you want to operate on you won't talk to the other keystone | 18:27 |
| ayoung | today, there would be no clean way to pull in users from federation etc via LDAP | 18:28 |
| ayoung | I mean, you could put it in LDAP, but it would be Keystone only data | 18:28 |
| agrebennikov | dstanek, but when you bring it to local keystone, does it have to verify the token against the remote one? | 18:28 |
| ayoung | and not have the role assignments, as those really should be in SQL | 18:28 |
| jamielennox | notmorgan: ++ to db replication, this stemmed from having problems doing reliable sync but i think something behind the scenes is still correct here | 18:28 |
| amakarov | notmorgan: and db replication souns like an overkill :) | 18:28 |
| dolphm | ayoung: the problem is that you want to manage user-specific authorization before there are users, right? | 18:28 |
| ayoung | amakarov, you can never have too much overkill | 18:29 |
| notmorgan | amakarov: it provides consistency and a shared authoritative data store | 18:29 |
| jamielennox | ayoung: but for whatever reason they are not having to duplicate the assignments backend, just resources, so you could put that in LDAP ? | 18:29 |
| agrebennikov | notmorgan, why do you always try to enforce third-party service to do the job which may be avoided? :) | 18:29 |
| notmorgan | amakarov: allowing user-provided ids only solves a very small case and i am almost 100% sure you're going to need a lot more. | 18:29 |
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| ayoung | jamielennox, they would be aback asking for assignments once they realized.... | 18:29 |
| ayoung | you need the whole kit and kaboodle | 18:30 |
| notmorgan | agrebennikov: because the NIH in openstack is strong. | 18:30 |
| jamielennox | ayoung: i'm pretty sure that's going to happen here anyway | 18:30 |
| ayoung | and it should not be in LDAP | 18:30 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, so...I like dolphm 's approach | 18:30 |
| agrebennikov | ayoung, please, bring it back to ldap)) | 18:30 |
| ayoung | or SQL sync | 18:30 |
| ayoung | agrebennikov, Nope. | 18:30 |
| ayoung | agrebennikov, not the right tool | 18:30 |
| ayoung | LDAP is general purpose data, not app specific | 18:30 |
| jamielennox | dolphm's approach being allow the mapper to create projects on first access? | 18:31 |
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| ayoung | why is ldap replication any better than SQL replication? | 18:31 |
| dolphm | jamielennox: ++ | 18:31 |
| gyee | ayoung, because LDAP data is "highly static" | 18:31 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, it also solves the long standing "autoprovisioning" feature request | 18:31 |
| notmorgan | ok we have other topics to cover | 18:31 |
| jamielennox | dolphm: i like that - but it still wouldn't let you specify a static project id output right? | 18:31 |
| notmorgan | we should close up this one. | 18:31 |
| dolphm | jamielennox: first authN, or on an authN when the mapping produces a new result (new attribute in SAML, or new mapping rules) | 18:31 |
| dstanek | dolphm: would your approach deal with the project id issue so that users only have to know one? | 18:32 |
| notmorgan | we can circle back at the end. | 18:32 |
| dolphm | notmorgan: ++ let me get this into a spec, and we can resume next week | 18:32 |
| jamielennox | yea, ok, allow for evolution of mapping | 18:32 |
| dolphm | dstanek: yes, it could | 18:32 |
| amakarov | notmorgan: what's the conclusion? | 18:32 |
| notmorgan | so, in wrapping up | 18:32 |
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| notmorgan | lets see what dolphm proposes | 18:32 |
| dolphm | amakarov: conclusion is i owe you a spec :P | 18:32 |
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| notmorgan | i personally am against supporting this in the API, what do the other folks feel (temperature) wise on the user supplied ids? | 18:33 |
| * amakarov writing down in a very special notebook "claim a spec from dolphm" | 18:33 | |
| notmorgan | #action dolphm to write up federation spec for next week. | 18:33 |
| jamielennox | i'm still -1 on the whole idea, i feel like you need only projects because of a very specific deployment setup | 18:33 |
| jamielennox | to do this properly would require access to a whole lot more | 18:33 |
| jamielennox | and i think the answer should be db replication, because you are actually trying to horizontally scale keystone | 18:34 |
| notmorgan | ayoung, henrynash, dstanek, shaleh, rodrigods, samueldmq ? | 18:34 |
| notmorgan | lbragstad? | 18:34 |
| agrebennikov | yeah, give me my custom project IDs! :P | 18:34 |
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| lbragstad | i'm not a huge fan of user defined IDs because it can cause weird edge cases | 18:34 |
| ayoung | notmorgan, meh | 18:34 |
| rodrigods | lbragstad, ++ | 18:34 |
| dstanek | generally i'm -1 on this idea. it seems like it would open too many corner cases | 18:35 |
| amakarov | last time it was OK as an admin-only action, no | 18:35 |
| ayoung | notmorgan, I want them for other reasons, see no reason to feat them | 18:35 |
| henrynash | i remain skeptical of user defined IDs as well | 18:35 |
| amakarov | ? | 18:35 |
| dolphm | what is the reasoning behind avoiding DB replication? what's described on the agenda just sounds like a technical exercise rather than a use case | 18:35 |
| ayoung | fear | 18:35 |
| agrebennikov | you man check they are unique | 18:35 |
| henrynash | dolphm: ++ | 18:35 |
| notmorgan | dolphm: ok lets get an answer to that then close up the topic | 18:35 |
| lbragstad | but if we can do it with something like the mapping engine and solve the auto-provisioning case that would be cool | 18:35 |
| notmorgan | agrebennikov, amakarov^ | 18:35 |
| shaleh | notmorgan: via the API, not so keen. As say a keystone-manage so it was ensure for admins for special purposes. Maybe. | 18:36 |
| dolphm | "Customer doesn't want to replicate databases between several geo-distributed datacenters" -- why not? | 18:36 |
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| amakarov | agrebennikov: ^ | 18:36 |
| notmorgan | dolphm: a low-volume of change, small dataset db. | 18:36 |
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| notmorgan | dolphm: keystone with fernet isn't crazy changing data. | 18:36 |
| * notmorgan narrows the case down a little | 18:37 | |
| dstanek | dolphm: last week it was said that they had a sync issue and they killed the DBs in multiple datacenters | 18:37 |
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| samueldmq | notmorgan: I am with other cores, don't like the idea of changing only the porject API for a very specific case | 18:37 |
| ayoung | what about revocations | 18:37 |
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| rodrigods | samueldmq, another good point | 18:37 |
| jamielennox | ok, we do need to move along | 18:37 |
| ayoung | those would need to be replicated. | 18:37 |
| notmorgan | ayoung: i know hold up. | 18:37 |
| notmorgan | dstanek: ok. fair enough. | 18:37 |
| samueldmq | sounds like an issue that should be solved at deployment level, like dolphm just mentioned | 18:37 |
| agrebennikov | dstanek, that was exactly the issue they had | 18:38 |
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| jamielennox | so i'm going to take it as a -1 from most cores to the general idea but we can continue to discuss it all after the meeting | 18:38 |
| notmorgan | jamielennox: ++ | 18:38 |
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| dstanek | agrebennikov: is it possible that they were just doing it wrong or is this a problem with the sync software you use? | 18:39 |
| notmorgan | jamielennox: that was the result here. | 18:39 |
| jamielennox | #topic Return request-id to caller" and other meta values | 18:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Return request-id to caller" and other meta values (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:39 | |
| lbragstad | let's all resync after dolphm gets a spec up? | 18:39 |
| jamielennox | breton_: yours | 18:39 |
| breton_ | as far as i remember, you guys decided to talk about the subject at the summit | 18:39 |
| breton_ | and choose which approach to use for adding properties to responses returned by ksc | 18:39 |
| breton_ | there were 2 possible ways: | 18:39 |
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| breton_ | 1. Somehow add properties to default python types (eeryone boo here) | 18:39 |
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| notmorgan | breton_: euuuuwwww :( | 18:40 |
| breton_ | 2. Create a new class, "Response", and do things there | 18:40 |
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| notmorgan | breton_: generally speaking, working with a response object (imo) sounds more correct than wedging data onto python primatives. | 18:40 |
| breton_ | i am interested in this because i need to do something similar for horizon -- they want to consume flag "truncated" returned for list operations | 18:40 |
| dstanek | breton_: i didn't just boo. i threw my laptop in a fit of rage | 18:41 |
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| breton_ | and we decided that i'll do it the same way as "return request id to caller" | 18:41 |
| gyee | dstanek, I can only imaging that :D | 18:41 |
| breton_ | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/261188/ | 18:41 |
| breton_ | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/261188/ is moving but too slow, and i want finally some consensus on that | 18:41 |
| jamielennox | ah, there it is, i couldn't find it | 18:41 |
| jamielennox | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/261188/ | 18:42 |
| breton_ | because i need to do my thing too | 18:42 |
| breton_ | did you discussed it? Also, please add your thoughts to https://review.openstack.org/#/c/261188/ | 18:43 |
| amakarov | breton_: maybe you contack the author and pick that up? | 18:43 |
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| breton_ | amakarov: the author wrote to the mailing list today | 18:43 |
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| dstanek | breton_: isn't that review doing #1? | 18:43 |
| breton_ | dstanek: it is | 18:44 |
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| jamielennox | i'm not sure that request_id ever escapes keystoneclient doing it this way | 18:44 |
| jamielennox | but they can be review comments | 18:44 |
| dstanek | jamielennox: ++ i said that early on. that casting or type maniplation may give you a new python primitive without the request id. | 18:45 |
| jamielennox | breton_: ok, so we need to get some eyes on that review - i think we need to look at a better response object, i'm not sure about wrapt-ing the whole thing | 18:45 |
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| dstanek | i think a response object is in order so that we can expose other meta data | 18:45 |
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| jamielennox | dstanek: right, so that response gets turned into a manager specific resource before returning to the user, so we should be able to figure out something there | 18:46 |
| jamielennox | breton_: ok for me to move on? | 18:46 |
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| breton_ | jamielennox: yes. Everyone, please comment on that review. | 18:46 |
| jamielennox | #topic KeystoneAuth Release today | 18:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "KeystoneAuth Release today (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:46 | |
| shaleh | any chance this work could also assist with the cross project goal of having a shared request_id so a request can be tracked through the layers of OS? | 18:46 |
| notmorgan | just an FYI, we're going to release ksa this week. | 18:47 |
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| jamielennox | shaleh: sigh - that's a long discussion | 18:47 |
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| notmorgan | it has new betamax support etc. | 18:47 |
| shaleh | jamielennox: I know :-( | 18:47 |
| jamielennox | so https://review.openstack.org/#/c/321814/ is the only outstanding review i would want to see in this review | 18:47 |
| notmorgan | scream and yell if you're unhappy. | 18:47 |
| jamielennox | there are a couple of +2s but no +A as ayoung has offered to test it for us :) | 18:48 |
| notmorgan | ayoung: can you confirm/ upgrade to +2/+A today? | 18:48 |
| notmorgan | ayoung: or tomorrow | 18:48 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, was wokring on getting a setup running again | 18:48 |
| ayoung | turns out I was running OSP 7...Pre mitaka stuff | 18:48 |
| jamielennox | ayoung: yea, it broke for me too | 18:48 |
| jamielennox | love to get a gate going on this stuff | 18:49 |
| ayoung | but I should be able to test that on my laptop talking to it | 18:49 |
| notmorgan | i'll hold the release until you've tested it/are ok (at least until wednesday) | 18:49 |
| ayoung | will do | 18:49 |
| notmorgan | ayoung: thanks. :) | 18:49 |
| jamielennox | #action ayoung test and approve https://review.openstack.org/#/c/321814/ | 18:49 |
| shaleh | ayoung: you have 6 hours, run..... | 18:49 |
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| jamielennox | #topic Service user permissions | 18:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Service user permissions (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:49 | |
| notmorgan | s/wednesday/thursday | 18:49 |
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| samueldmq | ayoung: thanks | 18:50 |
| jamielennox | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/317266/ | 18:50 |
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| jamielennox | so i prompted everyone to think about the consequences of this last week (week before?) and so far have no reviews | 18:50 |
| shaleh | on the face of it this sounds like a bad idea | 18:51 |
| jamielennox | i'd really like everyone's impression of this because it's a big conceptual change that i would like people to be on board with or kill | 18:51 |
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| gyee | jamielennox, I suggest OSS folks take a look at it as well | 18:51 |
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| shaleh | "just trust me" is never good security | 18:51 |
| jamielennox | gyee: good point - i need to ML it with [security] | 18:52 |
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| ayoung | yeah, disagree | 18:52 |
| ayoung | we don't want the token validated, we want the "user still has this allowed" validate | 18:52 |
| notmorgan | ayoung: i disagree so much with that | 18:53 |
| ayoung | two distinc things...a service user should not be tied to the token expiry, but they should only be able to do things a user has asked them...its like S4U2Proxy | 18:53 |
| notmorgan | validating that every single step is crazypants imo. | 18:53 |
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| notmorgan | but then again i clearly am in the minority here. | 18:54 |
| gyee | something to consider, if we are sharing memcache for token validation result, it will have similar issues, security-wise | 18:54 |
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| dstanek | notmorgan: validating the authz is crazypants? | 18:54 |
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| jamielennox | ayoung: that was my initial gut feeling here as well, still validate the credential headers for consistency at every step | 18:54 |
| jamielennox | but i'm having a hard time coming up with what that solves rather than just trusting everything from another service | 18:55 |
| notmorgan | dstanek: validating at every single stage in the chain is crazypants because we end up with the broken model of "oh we didn't know you cant do X 5 services deep" | 18:55 |
| ayoung | notmorgan, if a user loses access to, say a Cinder volume, that she might have had a month ago, the service user should not be able to override | 18:55 |
| gyee | I have two words, PKI tokens! | 18:55 |
| ayoung | the service user should not be tied to token expiry, but the delegation should not be infinite, either | 18:55 |
| ayoung | a service request should be good for , say, 24 hours | 18:55 |
| notmorgan | ayoung: and if you're coming back a month later, you shouldn't be using the same request :P | 18:55 |
| ayoung | and a token for 5 minutes | 18:56 |
| ayoung | notmorgan, exactly | 18:56 |
| jamielennox | yea, i don't think a month is reasonable here, there is a certain level of trust we would need to put on the services to forward the right thing, but we have that anyway | 18:56 |
| notmorgan | ayoung: within a specific scope/request validating permissions (not general auth) at every step is crazy. once you know you're allowed to do X, let them do it. | 18:56 |
| notmorgan | ayoung: i think we're quibbling over some small details thugh, mostly we're on the same page. | 18:56 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, so what is proposed here is that nova would be able to do anything anywhere | 18:57 |
| jamielennox | also unfortunately this doesn't fix the enforce policy only at the edge either, just token expiration | 18:57 |
| dstanek | i'm generally +1 to this idea, but i have to admin i haven't read the spec yet | 18:57 |
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| jamielennox | ayoung: it has that effect - however conversely to make things work at all nova service user typically has admin already | 18:58 |
| notmorgan | jamielennox: that is a big step forward | 18:58 |
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| notmorgan | jamielennox: the expiry check is a huge win for openstack | 18:58 |
| ayoung | notmorgan, we are not 100% on the same page. I do wantto check up front "can the user do, right now, everything they are erequesting" and return a 40X if they can't | 18:58 |
| ayoung | there we both agree | 18:58 |
| notmorgan | jamielennox: so, generally +1. | 18:58 |
| ayoung | but there are 2 things I want byond that | 18:58 |
| ayoung | 1. that the servcie use does not have carcte blanche to do anything anywhere | 18:58 |
| jamielennox | ayoung: that is a possible future thing | 18:59 |
| ayoung | 2. that the permission gets rechecked based on the delegation at the time of execution | 18:59 |
| notmorgan | ayoung: fwiw, they already pretty much do :P most service users *are* admins. | 18:59 |
| ayoung | I care far more about 1 than 2 | 18:59 |
| ayoung | notmorgan, I know | 18:59 |
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| ayoung | notmorgan, I'm the crazy person that came up wiuth trusts....remember? | 18:59 |
| jamielennox | ok - were out of time again | 18:59 |
| lbragstad | o/ | 18:59 |
| jamielennox | i'll send a ML this week | 18:59 |
| notmorgan | jamielennox: ++ | 18:59 |
| jamielennox | lbragstad: ? | 19:00 |
| notmorgan | that is the next logical step. | 19:00 |
| jamielennox | quick | 19:00 |
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| jamielennox | please review | 19:00 |
| jamielennox | #endmeeting | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 31 19:00:36 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-05-31-18.02.html | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-05-31-18.02.txt | 19:00 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-05-31-18.02.log.html | 19:00 |
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| fungi | infra team, assemble! | 19:00 |
| SotK | o/ | 19:00 |
| Zara | \o/ | 19:00 |
| dmsimard | \o | 19:01 |
| rcarrillocruz | o/ | 19:01 |
| asselin | o/ | 19:01 |
| nisha_ | o/ | 19:01 |
| fungi | looks like we have some topics added by mmedvede and dmsimard | 19:01 |
| clarkb | hello | 19:01 |
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| bkero | o/ | 19:01 |
| ianw | o/ | 19:01 |
| mmedvede | o/ | 19:01 |
| pabelanger | hi | 19:01 |
| fungi | ttx: if you're around, i wanted to talk about moving forward with the task tracker spec today too | 19:01 |
| jhesketh | Morning | 19:02 |
| fungi | pleia2: jeblair: mordred: nibalizer: around? | 19:02 |
| fungi | yolanda doesn't seem to be in channel | 19:03 |
| fungi | #startmeeting infra | 19:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 31 19:03:20 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:03 |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:03 |
| nibalizer | fungi: not really | 19:03 |
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| nibalizer | (sorry) | 19:03 |
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| fungi | no worries, just making sure you know there's a meeting afoot | 19:03 |
| fungi | #topic Announcements | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| fungi | #info REMINDER: Gerrit downtime on Friday 2016-06-03 at 20:00 UTC | 19:04 |
| fungi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2016-May/004322.html | 19:04 |
| fungi | for those planning to help with that, remember that's this friday | 19:04 |
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| fungi | also we're still missing a review for the openstack-infra/ansible-puppet -> openstack-infra/ansible-role-puppet rename, in case someone wants to volunteer to write it before friday | 19:04 |
| fungi | in unrelated news, anyone have any stats for the rename sprint from last week? | 19:05 |
| fungi | er, upgrade sprint | 19:05 |
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| fungi | like how many servers we upgraded? how many left to go? | 19:05 |
| pabelanger | I think we managed to upgrade about 43 servers last week | 19:06 |
| fungi | (don't all shout at once!) | 19:06 |
| pabelanger | with 5 (or 6) remaining | 19:06 |
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| clarkb | pabelanger: I counted closer to 30, we will have to see where our numbers differ :) | 19:06 |
| clarkb | 20 logstash-workers, 6 elasticsearch, logstash.o.o, eavesdrop, zuul-dev, cacti, and probably a small handful I am forgetting | 19:07 |
| jeblair | o/ | 19:07 |
| pabelanger | zuul-merger | 19:07 |
| pabelanger | graphite.o.o | 19:07 |
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| pabelanger | zm was 8 | 19:07 |
| fungi | #info At least 30 servers were upgraded from Ubuntu 12.04 to 14.04 during last week's sprint, with roughly half a dozen remaining | 19:07 |
| clarkb | oh right the mergers | 19:07 |
| clarkb | gg | 19:07 |
| anteaya | apps.o.o | 19:07 |
| fungi | so more than 40? | 19:07 |
| notmorgan | o/ | 19:07 |
| clarkb | fungi: sounds like it :) | 19:07 |
| fungi | #undo | 19:07 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Info object at 0x7f2dd3915910> | 19:07 |
| fungi | #info At least 40 servers were upgraded from Ubuntu 12.04 to 14.04 during last week's sprint, with roughly half a dozen remaining | 19:08 |
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| fungi | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:09 | |
| fungi | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-05-24-19.03.html | 19:09 |
| fungi | set up filtering to direct provider account contact address(es) into a high priority inbox | 19:09 |
| fungi | er, pleia2 set up filtering to direct provider account contact address(es) into a high priority inbox | 19:09 |
| fungi | (my highlighter didn't highlight right the first time) | 19:09 |
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| anteaya | I think she said she was going to work on that while she was vacationing | 19:10 |
| fungi | pleia2 was travelling this week, so might not be around for the meeting | 19:10 |
| fungi | yeah | 19:10 |
| fungi | i'll punt discussion of that to next week | 19:10 |
| fungi | #action pleia2 set up filtering to direct provider account contact address(es) into a high priority inbox | 19:10 |
| fungi | #action fungi start an ml thread revisiting current priority efforts list | 19:10 |
| fungi | i didn't get to that either | 19:10 |
| fungi | hopefully tonight | 19:11 |
| clarkb | fungi: on that I think we can finally remove the nodepool dib effort | 19:11 |
| clarkb | that is all done now with the bare-precise nodes gone | 19:11 |
| fungi | excellent, and yes i agree. if you want to propose that for removal i'll happily approve it | 19:11 |
| pabelanger | the only thing left is tripleo-cloud, they still do a fedora-22 snapshot build | 19:11 |
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| pabelanger | I'm still working to migrate them to centos-7 DIB | 19:11 |
| fungi | oh, hrm | 19:11 |
| fungi | right, i wonder for purposes of our priorities list whether that matters | 19:12 |
| clarkb | oh for some reason I thought taht was done too, in any case really close | 19:12 |
| pabelanger | The work is done, but they are having HDD issues (lack of space) | 19:12 |
| jeblair | i would like to remove the snapshot code from nodepool | 19:12 |
| asselin | we had to use different centos images with large partition | 19:12 |
| pabelanger | So, I could use some help getting tripleo on board with the migration :) | 19:12 |
| fungi | yeah, so if we want to consider removing snapshot support from nodepool a priority, then it needs to stay on the list for now | 19:12 |
| fungi | anyway, we can discuss this on the ml | 19:13 |
| asselin | pabelanger, ping me or jesusaur later on that | 19:13 |
| fungi | #topic Specs approval | 19:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:13 | |
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| fungi | (very) late addition to the agenda, but i wanted to propose the current state of https://review.openstack.org/314185 (A common task tracker for OpenStack) for council vote | 19:14 |
| fungi | or at least test the waters on how close we are to being able to vote on it | 19:14 |
| fungi | i tried to address the outstanding questions/concerns on it today | 19:14 |
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| Zara | :) | 19:15 |
| fungi | and if we don't think it's ready for voting this week, i wanted to at least try to get some consensus on whether we should encourage unofficial projects who are interested in helping beta test it and possibly contribute to development | 19:16 |
| fungi | i know dmsimard is interested in having task tracking for his ara project and was disinterested in using lp for that, and wanted to use storyboard if possible | 19:17 |
| fungi | (that was you, right dmsimard?) | 19:17 |
| dmsimard | yeah, I'd like to skip an eventual migration from launchpad especially for a new project | 19:18 |
| dmsimard | I don't like launchpad too much anyway so I'm biased :) | 19:18 |
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| Zara | in a move that surprises nobody, I'm in favour of having more contributors :) | 19:18 |
| * anteaya is not surprised | 19:18 | |
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| dmsimard | I don't think I have the bandwidth or the throughput to contribute code to storyboard but if I can contribute feedback, comments and ideas, I sure will | 19:19 |
| anteaya | I'm in favour of letting folks who want to use storyboard use storyboard | 19:19 |
| SotK | I'm also in favour of allowing folk like dmsimard to jump on and use it | 19:19 |
| * fungi wonders if the usa contingent is fighting holiday weekend hangovers | 19:19 | |
| anteaya | dmsimard: your contributions have been supportive thus far, thank you | 19:19 |
| clarkb | fungi: paint fume induced yes | 19:19 |
| anteaya | clarkb: mmmm paint fumes | 19:19 |
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| anteaya | I have no objections to putting the spec to a council vote | 19:20 |
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| anteaya | I'm hearing no one else object | 19:21 |
| clarkb | I am fine with opening it up to the adventurous | 19:21 |
| * jhesketh is fighting the morning.. | 19:21 | |
| fungi | oh, i should have linked it for convenience :/ | 19:22 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/314185 | 19:22 |
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| clarkb | and putting the spec up for voting seems fine, we need to start moving on that early this cycle if we want to have something concrete done by the end of the cycle | 19:22 |
| jhesketh | +1 | 19:22 |
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| fungi | #info Council voting on "A common task tracker for OpenStack" is open until 19:00 UTC Thursday, June 2 | 19:23 |
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| fungi | #topic Priority Efforts: Common OpenStack CI Solution (mmedvede) | 19:24 |
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| fungi | some questions here about a couple of reviews for elasticsearch and logstash support? | 19:24 |
| mmedvede | yes | 19:24 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/240011 | 19:24 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/199790 | 19:24 |
| dmsimard | I have a topic item but I have to step away for around 20 minutes -- sorry. Keep me for the end ? | 19:24 |
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| mmedvede | spec had the move of elasticsearch/logstash to openstackci | 19:25 |
| dmsimard | Be back asap. | 19:25 |
| mmedvede | the move is half done (patch that adds things to openstackci merged, removal patch did not) | 19:25 |
| fungi | dmsimard: sure (though you're the only other topic besides open discussion, but i can always add something) | 19:25 |
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| dmsimard | fungi: either that or feel free to discuss it, I think the review and the openstack-infra thread contains a sane amount of information | 19:25 |
| clarkb | mmedvede: we likely need to reconverge the setups then get the deletion one in | 19:26 |
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| mmedvede | so I'd like advise on either to abandon the move as it is now, and revert the patch that merged, or split the move in smaller pieces | 19:26 |
| clarkb | mmedvede: my suggestion would be to do it per service | 19:26 |
| clarkb | elasticsearch, lgostash worker, logstash.o.o, and subunit workers as 4 migrations | 19:26 |
| clarkb | will be easier to debug issues and revert if we need to | 19:26 |
| jesusaur | ++ | 19:27 |
| anteaya | mmedvede: what paatch do you want to revert? | 19:27 |
| asselin | should we revert the puppet-openstackci changes and do them clean? | 19:27 |
| fungi | yeah, it's a lot of moving parts, i agree an incremental move would introduce fewer things to have to debug at each step | 19:27 |
| clarkb | asselin: I don't think you need to do that, just updat ethem | 19:27 |
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| mmedvede | anteaya: the patch that merged into openstackci | 19:27 |
| anteaya | well I think we need to take a look at who is using openstackci | 19:27 |
| anteaya | does the target audience want elk too? | 19:28 |
| anteaya | mmedvede: have you a url? | 19:28 |
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| mmedvede | that is the only concern, if any of thrid-party CI operator use the pieces already | 19:28 |
| asselin | anteaya, yeah it was part of the original spec | 19:28 |
| asselin | #link openstack common-ci spec https://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/openstackci.html | 19:28 |
| fungi | just a separate change for each class in 199790 right? | 19:28 |
| anteaya | mmedvede: I have not come across anyone asking about elk for their third party ci | 19:29 |
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| mmedvede | fungi: yes, I'd prefer to split it, and make it as atomic as possible | 19:29 |
| jesusaur | I think if we rework https://review.openstack.org/#/c/240011/ to be a short stack of changes that each address a separate service, then we can move forward without a revert | 19:29 |
| clarkb | anteaya: I think people are more interested in it for their on prem CI maybe less so for CI that reports to us | 19:29 |
| anteaya | that is fine | 19:30 |
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| anteaya | my concern is having to field support questions on it from folks who can't get their zuul figured out, it it is an all in one | 19:30 |
| anteaya | asselin: and my apologies for not following the spec closly enough to know elk was in it | 19:30 |
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| asselin | anteaya, no worries elk is an acronym. spec as written is only inlcuding the 'l' and 'k' poritons: Logstash / kibana (optional) | 19:31 |
| mmedvede | ok, so as I understand, agreed on reverting the patch (maybe send out email just in case) and do the move by service? | 19:32 |
| asselin | mmedvede, no revert, just update | 19:32 |
| mmedvede | ok, no revert. thanks | 19:33 |
| fungi | okay, so way forward determined? | 19:33 |
| mmedvede | fungi: affirmative | 19:33 |
| clarkb | I think so, update openstackci, do one srevice at a time for migrations | 19:33 |
| asselin | any core sponsers to help review? | 19:33 |
| jesusaur | anteaya: if your main concern is fielding support questions, I understand the system pretty well and generally reply to pings | 19:34 |
| clarkb | I can help with it though am fairly swamped iwth life right now | 19:34 |
| fungi | #agreed Split proposed elasticsearch/logstash refactor changes into incremental per-class migrations rather than the current big bang | 19:34 |
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| anteaya | jesusaur: well yes I know it is less that we don't know how to support it and more the consumers don't know enough to even be able to explain what they are experiencing | 19:35 |
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| jesusaur | anteaya: ahh | 19:36 |
| anteaya | jesusaur: yeah | 19:36 |
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| anteaya | anyway looks like there is agreement on a thing | 19:36 |
| anteaya | moving on | 19:36 |
| asselin | #link storyboard for common-ci https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2000101 | 19:36 |
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| fungi | i think the stated goal of the openstackci module was to be able to stand up a complete ci system (eventually including log analysis and code review system) | 19:36 |
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| fungi | and that it was just starting at the third-party ci use case with plans to extend to the rest of our commonly-consumed ci stack | 19:37 |
| asselin | fungi, ++ | 19:38 |
| fungi | anyway, sounds like this is licked for now | 19:38 |
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| fungi | #topic Gauging interest in a late-cycle in-person sprint (fungi) | 19:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Gauging interest in a late-cycle in-person sprint (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:38 | |
| fungi | filler topic while we wait for dmsimard to return | 19:39 |
| anteaya | fungi: do you have any idea on location and suggested dates? | 19:39 |
| anteaya | neutron just announced theirs in cork ireland for 17-19 aug | 19:39 |
| fungi | it's been offered that the organization interested in sponsoring the qa sprint this cycle would be interested in making it a joint qa and infra sprint | 19:39 |
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| clarkb | my biggest thing would be to have a cohesive topic that we can collaborate on. I really liked how the infra cloud one turned out (maybe we do infra cloud pt 2?) | 19:39 |
| rcarrillocruz | about to say that thing | 19:40 |
| rcarrillocruz | :-) | 19:40 |
| anteaya | qa isn't in the wiki yet | 19:40 |
| fungi | yeah, this is my concern as well. for one, i don't want us to get locked into the idea that we need to have a "mid-cycle" get together every cycle | 19:40 |
| anteaya | where and when is the qa sprint? | 19:40 |
| anteaya | mtreinish: ^^ | 19:40 |
| fungi | it's still being debated, but the proposal is in the frankfurt area again, latter half of september | 19:41 |
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| * notmorgan would consider showing up to a late cycle sprint. | 19:41 | |
| rcarrillocruz | ohhh | 19:41 |
| anteaya | wow that is late | 19:41 |
| jeblair | we could consider a zuulv3 sprint -- that may be a good time for it | 19:41 |
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| notmorgan | jeblair: :) | 19:41 |
| fungi | my concern is that this puts it during the final rc weeks, immediately prior to release week | 19:41 |
| * rcarrillocruz is cool with germany again | 19:41 | |
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| fungi | i'd be cool with a reduced-scope agenda for it so that it doesn't seem like something everyone in infra feels like they need to show up for | 19:42 |
| jeblair | (i'm hoping by then we're on our way to running it) | 19:42 |
| pabelanger | +1 for zuulv3 | 19:42 |
| rcarrillocruz | is it going to be a single topic to get the most out of it or a couple of them | 19:42 |
| ttx | fungi: I'm available for questions | 19:42 |
| jhesketh | I | 19:42 |
| rcarrillocruz | i think the numbering pattern pls renaming could be good too | 19:42 |
| anteaya | late september is also during the ptl and tc elections | 19:43 |
| fungi | ttx: awesome, i'll wedge in a topic for further task tracker discussion in just a sec | 19:43 |
| jhesketh | *I think a sprint on any of our priority efforts would be time well spent | 19:43 |
| anteaya | jhesketh: hope you can attend this time, missed you last time | 19:43 |
| fungi | anteaya: yeah, i have a feeling i wouldn't go mostly because i want there to be some coverage for election and release activities, but i also don't want to turn down a hosting offer on behalf of our team if there are people interested in taking advantage of it | 19:44 |
| anteaya | fungi: I understand | 19:44 |
| jhesketh | anteaya: so do I :-) | 19:44 |
| anteaya | jhesketh: :) | 19:44 |
| anteaya | fungi: but this hosting opporunity doesn't have to be the only opportunity for an infra sprint | 19:44 |
| anteaya | it is just _an_ opportunity | 19:44 |
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| jhesketh | I have no objection to Germany but it'll be more expensive for most people | 19:45 |
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| fungi | anteaya: agreed. i'd also be strongly in favor of doing a virtual sprint for one of our priority efforts (including zuul v3) | 19:46 |
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| fungi | i feel like last week's upgrade sprint wet awesomely (did i mention that earlier? thanks everyone for pitching in on that!) | 19:46 |
| fungi | s/wet/went/ | 19:47 |
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| clarkb | 3 europe trips in less than 6 months does seem like a bit much but I am happy to go if we think it would be useful | 19:47 |
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| jhesketh | On the election if I could get some reviews on https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:add_elections it'd be good to do soon | 19:48 |
| fungi | okay, so if i get back to the people offering to host a joint qa/infra thing in late september in germany, any guess how many people i should estimate from infra? | 19:48 |
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| anteaya | fungi: fair enough | 19:48 |
| jhesketh | clarkb: 3? | 19:48 |
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| clarkb | jhesketh: I get on a plane for openstack day prague on saturday | 19:48 |
| anteaya | jhesketh: agreed | 19:48 |
| jhesketh | Ah cool | 19:49 |
| dmsimard | I'm back o/ | 19:49 |
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| pabelanger | fungi: Depending on travel approval, I'm a maybe | 19:49 |
| fungi | jhesketh: foundation staff are taking advantage of openstack events in hungary and czech republic to co-opt a meeting space for our quarterly meeting | 19:49 |
| rcarrillocruz | i depend on approval | 19:49 |
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| jhesketh | fungi: I would make an effort to go but can't promise anything (budget, timing etc) | 19:49 |
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| rcarrillocruz | obviously is more likely i get approval on EMEA than US/APJ | 19:49 |
| fungi | sounds like maybe we would be in the 5-10 infra attendees range? | 19:50 |
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| clarkb | that sounds about right. ft collins was a little closer to 20 iirc | 19:51 |
| fungi | okay, i'll iterate with them and i guess position it as a zuul v3 polishing sprint? | 19:51 |
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| fungi | or infra cloud second installment? | 19:51 |
| clarkb | I htink both of those make good sprints | 19:52 |
| fungi | those were the only concrete ideas i saw pitched so far | 19:52 |
| pabelanger | ++ | 19:52 |
| jhesketh | fungi: why not just priority efforts? | 19:52 |
| fungi | that doesn't seem like a focus | 19:52 |
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| jeblair | also, i bet in a few weeks/months we will have a better idea of which might be effective... | 19:53 |
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| fungi | i guess for some people it is, but ideally our priority efforts on the whole are hopefully things we're generally working on anyway | 19:53 |
| jeblair | (current/future infra-cloud hardware state -- progress/roadmap on zuulv3) | 19:53 |
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| jhesketh | It allows others to come and pick their work, but I do see the advantages of being narrow | 19:53 |
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| anteaya | waldorf or dresden | 19:54 |
| fungi | yeah, if everyone picks their work then we'll likely be sitting in a room together more or less working on what we always work on | 19:54 |
| anteaya | can we get to dmsimard's thing and come back to the sprint? | 19:55 |
| fungi | yep | 19:55 |
| dmsimard | \o | 19:55 |
| anteaya | thanks | 19:55 |
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| fungi | #topic Ara project interest (dmsimard) | 19:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ara project interest (dmsimard) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:56 | |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/321226 | 19:56 |
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| fungi | dmsimard: i guess you put this on the agenda because you're curious about whether infra use cases are compelling for it? | 19:56 |
| dmsimard | Hi, tl;dr ARA is a project born out of RDO because we have a lot of CI that installs and tests openstack-related things through ansible. | 19:56 |
| dmsimard | And we have logs like these: https://dmsimard.com/files/ansible-jenkins.txt | 19:57 |
| dmsimard | These are not fun. | 19:57 |
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| fungi | that looks familiar to me | 19:57 |
| rcarrillocruz | well, i can tell that tool can be useful in the world where we automate one-off playbooks against our infra servers... looks very cool | 19:57 |
| jeblair | oh yeah, we ran into the "all puppet stdout in one line" thing too :) | 19:57 |
| dmsimard | We're seeking a home for the project and believe that OpenStack is a good one for it | 19:57 |
| dmsimard | Projects like jenkins job builder were also born out of OpenStack requirements | 19:58 |
| fungi | dmsimard: starting as an unofficial project in openstack's gerrit, sounded like and maybe looking to join infra later or something? | 19:58 |
| dmsimard | Up to you guys, really - a first step would be to join the ecosystem first, yes. | 19:59 |
| dmsimard | I added the item on the agenda due to lack of -2 or +2, really, though | 19:59 |
| jeblair | i think it might prove really useful in zuulv3, but i don't think we're ready to think about the details yet. i'd love to see it generating some static stuff from devstack-gate tempest runs though -- that might be useful, shouldn't be too hard, and would show it off a bit | 19:59 |
| dmsimard | Because the project needs a home and if that home isn't openstack, we can house it as a RDO project | 19:59 |
| jeblair | we might want to think about using in in connection with/instead of puppetboard | 19:59 |
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| jeblair | (for infra system-config reporting) | 19:59 |
| dmsimard | jeblair: yes, ara is fairly analogous to puppetboard | 20:00 |
| fungi | yeah, it seems like it might be a fit for becoming an infra project, _if_ we get to the point where we're depending on it. i'd just hesitate to adopt it officially if we're not making use of it | 20:00 |
| fungi | also we're out of time | 20:00 |
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| anteaya | thank you fungi | 20:00 |
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| dmsimard | thanks for your time :) | 20:00 |
| rcarrillocruz | ttyl folks | 20:00 |
| fungi | anyway, i guess anyone interested in maybe implementing ara, review dmsimard's change and get up with him | 20:01 |
| fungi | thanks everyone! | 20:01 |
| fungi | #endmeeting | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 31 20:01:18 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-05-31-19.03.html | 20:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-05-31-19.03.txt | 20:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-05-31-19.03.log.html | 20:01 |
| * amrith coughs discreetly | 20:01 | |
| *** olaph has left #openstack-meeting | 20:01 | |
| bkero | thanks everybody, have a good week! | 20:01 |
| ttx | o/ | 20:01 |
| mestery | o/ | 20:01 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 20:01 |
| *** galstrom_zzz is now known as galstrom | 20:01 | |
| amrith | ./ | 20:01 |
| acabot_ | o/ | 20:01 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:01 |
| thingee | o/ | 20:01 |
| russellb | o/ | 20:01 |
| notmorgan | ttx: i owe you an email. | 20:01 |
| dims | o/ | 20:01 |
| jwcroppe | o/ | 20:01 |
| * rockyg quietly snacks on blueberries | 20:01 | |
| notmorgan | russellb: o/ HI :) | 20:01 |
| ttx | annegentle, johnthetubaguy, mtreinish, mordred, sdague : around ? | 20:01 |
| annegentle | \o | 20:02 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:02 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 31 20:02:07 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:02 |
| * devananda heats up lunch and sits in the back | 20:02 | |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:02 |
| russellb | notmorgan: hello there! | 20:02 |
| mtreinish | o/ | 20:02 |
| ttx | Hi everyone! | 20:02 |
| ttx | almost full house today | 20:02 |
| * dims is at a soccer field parking lot | 20:02 | |
| * flaper87 bows and says hi | 20:02 | |
| annegentle | why hello there | 20:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | o/ | 20:02 |
| ttx | Our agenda: | 20:02 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:02 |
| mestery | dims: that sounds fun :) | 20:02 |
| * edleafe waves from PyCon | 20:02 | |
| dims | :) | 20:02 |
| ttx | NB: We'll skip the golang discussion this week as we made little progress over the past week | 20:02 |
| * dhellmann waves to edleafe from pycon | 20:02 | |
| ttx | We should gather enough info to push it forward next week though. | 20:02 |
| notmorgan | edleafe: i'll wave from a couple miles away from pycon :) | 20:03 |
| ttx | In the mean time let's burn some backlog | 20:03 |
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| ttx | #topic Add resolution explaining which tests we think defcore should use | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add resolution explaining which tests we think defcore should use (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:03 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/312718 | 20:03 |
| ttx | dhellmann: care to present this one ? | 20:03 |
| dhellmann | sure | 20:03 |
| dhellmann | this is the result of a part of the discussion at the summit | 20:03 |
| dhellmann | there was some talk of supporting tests outside of tempest, and in fact tempest and or refstack already do | 20:03 |
| dhellmann | but for the purposes of defcore, I think that having a strong central review team is valuable | 20:04 |
| dhellmann | and so I am proposing that we "indicate the technical direction" of the project by asking defcore to look only at tests in the tempest repo | 20:04 |
| dhellmann | that will mean adding or moving tests from other places, but I didn't want to specify the process for doing that in the resolution itself | 20:05 |
| dhellmann | the defcore, qa, and project teams can handle the details | 20:05 |
| ttx | ok. It's not completely crazy to require some consistency in tests that are used to assess interoperability | 20:05 |
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| notmorgan | ttx: ++ | 20:05 |
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| dims | dhellmann : are the respective teams ok to carry out this work? | 20:05 |
| ttx | s/require/encourage | 20:05 |
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| mestery | ttx: I think require is actually fine | 20:06 |
| dhellmann | dims : I discussed it with the qa team, and they agreed | 20:06 |
| notmorgan | AIUI the QA/tempest team were ok with this | 20:06 |
| dims | notmorgan : dhellmann : cool | 20:06 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: so, the QA team will do most of this work | 20:06 |
| sdague | the qa and refstack folks were in the room, right? | 20:06 |
| ttx | and the qa PTL supported the change | 20:06 |
| catherineD | sdague: yes I am from the refstack team | 20:06 |
| dhellmann | flaper87 : no. as tests are identified for defcore needs, I would expect the project teams to work with the qa team to get them moved | 20:06 |
| sdague | flaper87: the qa team does the review work, they don't write every test | 20:06 |
| dhellmann | with trademark and interop support as the carrot to do that | 20:06 |
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| notmorgan | 058698 | 20:07 |
| flaper87 | sdague: yeah, I meant that and some of the moving work, not really writing the tests | 20:07 |
| * flaper87 should have been more specific | 20:07 | |
| * notmorgan sighs. | 20:07 | |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: ok, thanks for clarifying | 20:07 |
| notmorgan | stupid OTP. | 20:07 |
| * dhellmann waits for notmorgan to touch his yubikey again | 20:07 | |
| johnthetubaguy | so I totally like the idea of it being in a central place, tempest sounds good if tempest folks like that idea | 20:07 |
| rockyg | I have a question: Defcore may also include "scenario tests" in the future (like my first app) can we make this a "future" collaboration with QA? | 20:07 |
| notmorgan | dhellmann: it'll get me out of sync and i'll need to re-sync the token soon enough. | 20:07 |
| sdague | rockyg: yeh, future things are always subject to figuring out the right thing to do in the future | 20:07 |
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| dhellmann | rockyg : likely. The proposal is that we ask defcore to only use tests from tempest, which will trigger adding more tests there to support them. | 20:08 |
| sdague | this seems more like a statement of how to do all the things that are being done now | 20:08 |
| hogepodge | as a defcore working group member I am happy to work with the qa team and projects | 20:08 |
| notmorgan | hogepodge: good to hear | 20:08 |
| flaper87 | hogepodge: ++ | 20:08 |
| ttx | OK, we seem to have agreement | 20:08 |
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| dhellmann | hogepodge : great! and I want to be clear that although we may rely on defcore to identify tests, I think it's entirely reasonable to leave the work of moving/updating them to project teams | 20:09 |
| ttx | 8 votes without counting Doug | 20:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | I guess we start marking tests as explicitly interop tests in tempest at some point? | 20:09 |
| rockyg | Mom and apple pie | 20:09 |
| hogepodge | note that markvoelker and eglute are the chairs of the working group, so speak on an official capacity for it | 20:09 |
| dhellmann | johnthetubaguy : yes, that's a good idea | 20:09 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy: maybe, refstack already has a way to track that in their repo | 20:09 |
| mtreinish | johnthetubaguy: maybe, how we tag things isn't necessarily that straightforward | 20:09 |
| hogepodge | I administer defcore for the foundation | 20:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | dhellmann: I loved your point on them needing a different sort of review | 20:09 |
| mtreinish | johnthetubaguy: because there is already a list maintained | 20:09 |
| sdague | that's why the stable uuid exists to make that external tagging work well | 20:10 |
| dhellmann | johnthetubaguy : thanks | 20:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | I was thinking a more reverse things | 20:10 |
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| johnthetubaguy | hang on, thats nonsense | 20:10 |
| ttx | dhellmann: do you think that needs a new patchset or should it be approved as-is ? | 20:10 |
| annegentle | ttx: do we know who all needs to agree for this resolution to work out? | 20:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | I mean make it clear to reviewers the intent of the test is interop | 20:10 |
| dims | as a result of this action, is there a project likely to drop from defcore radar/coverage? | 20:10 |
| annegentle | wondering as I read some of the comments | 20:11 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I can spin a new version if needed. I don't remember any edits that I thought I needed, but let me look again | 20:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | I know we track it, but its not infront of your else right now, but I could be missing something | 20:11 |
| ttx | annegentle: the way it's phrased it's just a TC resolution, so majority of TC member votes | 20:11 |
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| dhellmann | annegentle : TC, QA, DefCore? | 20:11 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: the only one I remember is the third option but we can add that in a follow-up patch | 20:11 |
| mtreinish | dims: not really, the projects currently covered by defcore all have existing tempest tests | 20:11 |
| hogepodge | dims: defcore is completely covered in tempest right now, with additional features from heat and swift in external test repos | 20:11 |
| dhellmann | flaper87 : at that point in the resolution I was recording history, and that option was not part of the history | 20:11 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: ok so do we need Mark and Egle to vote or is it okay as-is? | 20:11 |
| dims | mtreinish : hogepodge : cool! | 20:12 |
| ttx | but then to "work out" someone will have to carry the work, so QA+Defcore support can't hurt | 20:12 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: ah, fair enough | 20:12 |
| hogepodge | the additional features are not required or advisory, just under review | 20:12 |
| dims | ttx : +1 | 20:12 |
| dhellmann | annegentle : it's a tc resolution, so we need to vote and then it's our suggestion/request to them | 20:12 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: ok check | 20:12 |
| dims | hogepodge : ack. | 20:12 |
| ttx | dhellmann: ready to approve on your command | 20:12 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I'm happy with this draft | 20:12 |
| ttx | ok, sold | 20:12 |
| devananda | dhellmann: I thought there was an initiative to move a lot of the tempest tests to use tempest-lib -- ie, put them in the project specific repos | 20:13 |
| ttx | #topic Add resolution asking defcore committee to avoid using proxy APIs in tests | 20:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add resolution asking defcore committee to avoid using proxy APIs in tests (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:13 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/312719 | 20:13 |
| dhellmann | devananda : that's good for non-interop functional tests | 20:13 |
| ttx | dhellmann: you again | 20:13 |
| * ttx sits back | 20:13 | |
| dhellmann | devananda : and in the review comments I mention that this resolution may result in some test duplication | 20:13 |
| dhellmann | ok, this one is another "please take this as technical direction" request for defcore to avoid using tests that use features of one service proxied through another | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | for example, calling nova apis to proxy to glance to test image management features | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | they have used those tests because those were the ones that existed, which is understandable | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | I think a better outcome is to identify the need for those tests and ask for new ones to be written that do not use the proxies | 20:14 |
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| dhellmann | and then those are more appropriate for interop testing and trademark | 20:14 |
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| dhellmann | enforcement | 20:15 |
| dhellmann | questions? | 20:15 |
| ttx | That sounds sane, actually already has majority votes in support | 20:15 |
| rockyg | fyi, DefCore is on top of this, but having the resolution is a hard direction point that makes it easier to score "future direction -not" | 20:15 |
| sdague | dhellmann: yep, all very sensible. Also, fyi, Nova is deprecating all those proxies this cycle | 20:15 |
| flaper87 | I'm sold already | 20:15 |
| ttx | I agree with comments who say that we should probably also state at some point that proxy APIs are evil and should diaf | 20:15 |
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| dhellmann | johnthetubaguy pointed out that this follows nova's -- what sdague said faster | 20:15 |
| dims | dhellmann : sounds good to me | 20:15 |
| mtreinish | dhellmann: in most cases those tests which go right to the projects already exist (and have for a long time) | 20:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | so I think the image api is a bad example here in some ways, but totally agree with us saying not to add the proxy APIs | 20:15 |
| thingee | http://docs.openstack.org/developer/nova/project_scope.html#no-more-api-proxies | 20:15 |
| annegentle | can someone define proxy as we see it? | 20:15 |
| mestery | ttx: ++ | 20:15 |
| * flaper87 thanks all the gods for the proxies deprecations | 20:15 | |
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| dhellmann | mtreinish : ok, cool. | 20:15 |
| sdague | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/312209/ | 20:15 |
| devananda | fwiw, I'm very much in agreement with this | 20:15 |
| rockyg | In fact, I think this is a great start for doing this with more phase-out or phase-in stuff | 20:15 |
| flaper87 | thingee: that was me, I think. Happy t owrite that down | 20:16 |
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| flaper87 | erm | 20:16 |
| flaper87 | ttx: ^ | 20:16 |
| annegentle | so is a proxy only one service to another service? | 20:16 |
| flaper87 | thingee: sorry | 20:16 |
| annegentle | what about keystone v2.0 to v3? Is that not a proxy? | 20:16 |
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| notmorgan | annegentle: that is not a proxy | 20:16 |
| annegentle | or is that a redirect? | 20:16 |
| sdague | annegentle: no, that's not a proxy | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | annegentle : yeah, if I call nova to do something and it really only talks to another service to do the work where I could have called that API myself | 20:16 |
| notmorgan | not even a redirect | 20:16 |
| dims | annegentle : if we test something in glance by calling Nova's REST API for example | 20:16 |
| notmorgan | they are separate paths. | 20:16 |
| annegentle | dims: I get that one. I'm not sure about the keystone case. | 20:17 |
| notmorgan | and run concurrently today | 20:17 |
| sdague | this is things like /images or /volumes in Nova which are really just proxies to another REST service, there for historical reasons | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | if you want to test the feature of an openstack project, you should talk directly to it as much as possible | 20:17 |
| sdague | because that other service used to be Nova | 20:17 |
| annegentle | okay, got it. | 20:17 |
| notmorgan | sdague: ++ :) | 20:17 |
| sdague | but it isn't any more | 20:17 |
| dims | annegentle : ah. listening :) | 20:17 |
| rockyg | definition of "proxy api" would be good to have in the resolution | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | it's ok to use other projects to "set up" for a test, but better if you don't have to | 20:17 |
| annegentle | yeah I'll comment on the review, I already said I approve but just want to be clear | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | that way we get good test isolation, and don't have implicit things being wrapped up in interop tests | 20:18 |
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| dims | annegentle : good one. | 20:18 |
| ttx | rockyg: feels clear enough, there is an example in the text | 20:18 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: ok, looks like there is agreement. Shall I approve current version of the text or do you want to make changes ? | 20:18 |
| rockyg | ttx, thanks. I have problems reading two things at once, especially when one is changing rapidly;-) | 20:18 |
| annegentle | actually, reading it again, it's fine. There's a clear statement of "service to service" | 20:18 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I'm happy with this draft | 20:19 |
| ttx | rockyg: I wonder which :) | 20:19 |
| ttx | OK then, approving now | 20:19 |
| ttx | #topic Add Juju Charms for OpenStack | 20:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add Juju Charms for OpenStack (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:19 | |
| jamespage | o/ | 20:19 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/224797 | 20:19 |
| ttx | This was originally proposed in Sept 2015. | 20:19 |
| ttx | jamespage: o/ | 20:19 |
| ttx | Back then it was postponed waiting for some activity in the team and clarification of our licensing rules | 20:20 |
| ttx | Since then activity has happened, and to me it appears to be following the OpenStack way enough | 20:20 |
| ttx | But we also clarified our licensing rules | 20:20 |
| dhellmann | what was the outcome of the license discussion? | 20:20 |
| ttx | #link http://governance.openstack.org/reference/licensing.html | 20:20 |
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| ttx | Under those rules it seems difficult to accept charms that would be GPLv3. They should be ASLv2, MIT or BSD (any form) | 20:20 |
| mtreinish | ttx: then wouldn't this be blocked until things are relicensed? | 20:21 |
| dhellmann | it seems so | 20:21 |
| ttx | mtreinish: that is my interpretation of the current rules yes | 20:21 |
| thingee | mtreinish: +1 | 20:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, +1 | 20:21 |
| notmorgan | that is what it sounds like to me. | 20:21 |
| dhellmann | does that need a vote on the patch, or do you want to just communicate that to them ttx? | 20:22 |
| russellb | i figure we don't need to pile on -1s | 20:22 |
| dims | ttx : jamespage : what happens to existing forks under GPLv3 (from folks outside of canonical) if they want to be folded back to our repo? | 20:22 |
| flaper87 | russellb: ++ | 20:22 |
| dhellmann | russellb : right, that seems excessive | 20:22 |
| ttx | Yeah, maybe I can just register a -1 if you agree with my reading | 20:22 |
| russellb | ++ | 20:22 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I certainly agree. | 20:22 |
| notmorgan | a single -1 for that seems reasonable | 20:22 |
| ttx | and then if the relicensing discussion takes forever we'll temporarily abandon the review until it's settled | 20:22 |
| dhellmann | ++ | 20:23 |
| * jamespage crosses fingers it won't take for ever but he has some running around todo for that | 20:23 | |
| ttx | do you have other objections that we should record ? | 20:23 |
| anteaya | ttx when you -1 can you say that you do so as a representative of the group, for archival purposes | 20:23 |
| notmorgan | i also want to voice a minor disappointment they're doing independant releases instead of trailing. as long as they're happy with that placement, i'm ok with it | 20:23 |
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| notmorgan | but minor disappointment is strictly because i don't want concern that it's not "part" of the release. | 20:24 |
| dhellmann | jamespage : yeah, if you'd like to talk about release models we can do that next week when I'm back on a non-conference schedule | 20:24 |
| dims | i am good with just the relicensing | 20:24 |
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| jamespage | dhellmann, sure sounds good - we're every 3 months atm | 20:24 |
| notmorgan | down the road. | 20:24 |
| dims | notmorgan : ++ | 20:24 |
| dhellmann | jamespage : ok, you may have the right model then, but let's make sure | 20:25 |
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| dhellmann | sort out the license stuff first, the model is easy enough to deal with | 20:25 |
| dims | dhellmann : agree | 20:25 |
| ttx | FTR I'm good with the proposal if we can get the licensing fixed. I think those packaging teams have been pretty successful collaboration efforts in the big tent | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | ++ | 20:25 |
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| flaper87 | ttx: agreed! | 20:25 |
| johnthetubaguy | +1 | 20:25 |
| dims | +1 | 20:25 |
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| ttx | It's like magic that turns a dozen crappy github forks into something usable | 20:26 |
| notmorgan | ttx: ++ | 20:26 |
| russellb | ha... packaging teams? or you mean the config mgmt teams? | 20:26 |
| ttx | OK, if we don't have further questions on this topic I propose we move on | 20:26 |
| russellb | not sure the packaging teams have been terribly productive .. | 20:27 |
| ttx | russellb: packaging/deployment-recipes thingies | 20:27 |
| russellb | k, moving on is fine | 20:27 |
| ttx | russellb: traditional packaging, yeah | 20:27 |
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| ttx | Alright, moving on | 20:27 |
| ttx | #topic Add project Vitrage to OpenStack big-tent | 20:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add project Vitrage to OpenStack big-tent (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:27 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/320296 | 20:27 |
| ttx | Anyone from Vitrage present ? | 20:27 |
| ifat_afek | hi, I'm here | 20:28 |
| ttx | Hi Ifat! | 20:28 |
| * flaper87 just noticed gertty didn't store his comment on the Vitrage review | 20:28 | |
| alexey_weyl | Hi | 20:28 |
| ttx | flaper87: would you mind explain your -1 ? | 20:28 |
| dims | flaper87 : what was your -1 for? | 20:28 |
| dims | :) | 20:28 |
| flaper87 | I just commented again | 20:28 |
| ttx | blaming gertty will get you NOWHERE | 20:28 |
| notmorgan | flaper87: ah now your -1 is more clear | 20:28 |
| flaper87 | It's a nit. The project uses Engine instead of service | 20:28 |
| dims | ah. thx | 20:29 |
| flaper87 | I wonder if there's an real motivation for that | 20:29 |
| ttx | oh, nice nit | 20:29 |
| flaper87 | otherwise I'd prefer using service | 20:29 |
| flaper87 | Vitrage is a service (tagged type:service) so, it kinda makes more sense to use service instead | 20:29 |
| ifat_afek | flaper87: can you please explain? | 20:29 |
| notmyname | flaper87: there isn't an "engine" type defined, is there? | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | ifat: we get picky about the wording there, because we want projects to all look the same in the rendered veersion of the documentation | 20:30 |
| notmorgan | dhellmann: ++ | 20:30 |
| annegentle | ifat_afek: it matters for REST API docs too | 20:30 |
| ifat_afek | Oh, you mean we should call it RCA service? | 20:30 |
| flaper87 | ifat_afek: ^ | 20:30 |
| ttx | ifat_afek: yes | 20:30 |
| notmorgan | ifat_afek: yeah | 20:30 |
| flaper87 | ifat_afek: yeah | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | ifat_afek : right | 20:30 |
| flaper87 | ifat_afek: sorry for not being clear | 20:30 |
| flaper87 | :) | 20:30 |
| ifat_afek | I see you all agree :-) guess it's fine with us | 20:31 |
| notmorgan | ifat_afek: unless there is a real reason to call it an "engine" | 20:31 |
| ttx | Otherwise Vitrage seems to fit the requirements for me - definitely developed in the OpenStack Way | 20:31 |
| flaper87 | I panic'd when I noticed my comment was missing | 20:31 |
| flaper87 | :D | 20:31 |
| * thingee is already imagining how this will be expressed in the service type auth repo | 20:31 | |
| ttx | Like I said in the review, the use case seems a bit focused on specialized private clouds where exposing the user to underlying topology is seen as a feature rather than a bug | 20:31 |
| flaper87 | yup, that's my only comment, otherwise it looks good | 20:31 |
| ifat_afek | notmorgan: no real reason, it just sounded good to us. We weren't aware of these terminology issues | 20:31 |
| notmorgan | ifat_afek: no worries then, easy fix | 20:31 |
| ifat_afek | sure | 20:32 |
| edleafe | ttx: anti-cloud? | 20:32 |
| notmorgan | edleafe: what happens if anti-cloud and cloud touch? | 20:32 |
| mtreinish | notmorgan: warp drive? | 20:32 |
| edleafe | notmorgan: you don't want to know | 20:32 |
| annegentle | ifat_afek: do you see this as an admin API only? Or is there a way to configure for admins only to view the topology? | 20:32 |
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| ttx | ifat_afek: could you explain how multitenancy would fix that ? It feels like Vitrage provides clarity in a cloud where by design some people want to hide which switch is connected to which VM | 20:32 |
| sdague | ttx: it is a pretty common use case though. self service users make a ton of sense when you have addition trust in your users. | 20:32 |
| ifat_afek | ttx: we would like to let admin see everything; and for users of other tenants filter what they see - only their instances, stacks, alarms, etc. | 20:33 |
| ttx | sdague: I understand the use case, I'm just wondering about that comment which says multitenancy would fix it | 20:33 |
| ttx | ifat_afek: I see, makes sense | 20:33 |
| ifat_afek | ttx: we can add a comment | 20:33 |
| ttx | ifat_afek: it's not blocking the review, just wanted to make sure I understood | 20:34 |
| jroll | sounds like the use case for end users could be something like "alert infra@openstack.org that git01.openstack.org is down because foo" | 20:34 |
| ttx | Other questions, objections ? | 20:34 |
| amrith | ttx ./ | 20:34 |
| * ttx passes mike to amrith | 20:34 | |
| amrith | thx ttx | 20:35 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: should ifat_afek update the wording in this patch, or via a second? | 20:35 |
| ttx | dhellmann: yes, if that's the only objection | 20:35 |
| * dhellmann doesn't need a mic | 20:35 | |
| amrith | jus a question about the relationship, if any with the telemetry projects. | 20:35 |
| fungi | jroll: or notify jroll when we have issues with his employer's cloud and can't get a response on a ticket ;) | 20:35 |
| amrith | is this a part of 'telemetry' | 20:35 |
| ttx | amrith: it gets alamrs from them | 20:35 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: if ifat_afek does it now, I think we can vote quickly | 20:35 |
| dhellmann | flaper87 : ++ | 20:35 |
| ifat_afek | amirth: we are currently working on integration with aodh | 20:35 |
| dims | looks like they are using oslo_messaging, aodh/ceilometer etc | 20:35 |
| annegentle | ifat_afek: my question on the review is about whether you'll expect operators to protect the API or if a policy is already builtin | 20:35 |
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| amrith | ttx, would that mean it should be part of telemetry or is it a top level project in its own right. | 20:35 |
| amrith | that's my only question | 20:36 |
| jroll | fungi: :D | 20:36 |
| * amrith returns mic to ttx | 20:36 | |
| ttx | amrith: different team, different project team | 20:36 |
| ifat_afek | we already have an aodh datasource, and we are designing a notifier of vitrage alarms to aodh, in coordination with aodh guys | 20:36 |
| ttx | amrith: we don't do "programs" anymore | 20:36 |
| ttx | so there is no reserved territory for telemetry | 20:36 |
| amrith | ah, thanks ttx | 20:36 |
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| ttx | here it's a complement service that doesn't duplicate feature | 20:36 |
| ttx | and actually integrates with telemetry services | 20:37 |
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| dims | ttx : ++ | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | we have more and more projects now consuming the output of existing projects and building on their features | 20:37 |
| ifat_afek | annegentle: I'm no sure I understand the question, can you please explain? | 20:37 |
| flaper87 | ifat_afek: are you amending the review now? Or planning to do it later? | 20:37 |
| ttx | ifat_afek: could you quickly fix the wording to say "service" ? I think we could approve it just after you post it | 20:37 |
| * flaper87 hands ifat_afek a marker | 20:37 | |
| ttx | We can review Watcher in the mean time | 20:37 |
| ifat_afek | ttx: sure, doing it now | 20:37 |
| ttx | ifat_afek: thanks! | 20:37 |
| ttx | #topic Add project Watcher to OpenStack big-tent | 20:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add project Watcher to OpenStack big-tent (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:38 | |
| acabot_ | o/ | 20:38 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/320941 | 20:38 |
| ttx | acabot_: o/ | 20:38 |
| annegentle | ifat_afek: Wanted to also ask the same as ttx | 20:38 |
| sballe_ | o/ | 20:38 |
| ttx | This one sounds mostly straightforward to me. Developed in the OpenStack Way, good diversity already for a non-official project | 20:38 |
| annegentle | ifat_afek: do you expect this to be an admin api and if so, what's the mechanism | 20:38 |
| * mestery waves at sballe_ :) | 20:38 | |
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| flaper87 | ttx: acabot_ looks like there's a small thing to fix. | 20:38 |
| ttx | flaper87: yes | 20:38 |
| flaper87 | I held off my vote waiting on that fix, fwiw | 20:38 |
| flaper87 | otherwise, lgtm | 20:38 |
| mestery | flaper87: ++ | 20:38 |
| ttx | Proactive resource optimization sounds like a useful thing to have in most use cases, be it public or private cloud, and at any size -- so that fits the mission well | 20:38 |
| notmorgan | flaper87: ++ | 20:39 |
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| ttx | If we remove the diverse-affiliation claim which is incorrect (as of now), I'm fine approving it | 20:39 |
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| johnthetubaguy | lots of operators seemed interested in the project at the ops meetup in manchester, not that thats really relevant to the approval, just interesting | 20:39 |
| ttx | questions ? | 20:39 |
| notmorgan | ttx: wfm | 20:40 |
| flaper87 | acabot_: any chance you can address ttx's comment now? that way we can approve it now | 20:40 |
| annegentle | good to know johnthetubaguy | 20:40 |
| dhellmann | sorry for not reading up in advance, but what sort of optimizations are we talking about here? | 20:40 |
| ttx | johnthetubaguy: yes it seems to strike a chord. Or whatever is appropriate to strike in a tuba | 20:40 |
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| * ttx is a piano guy | 20:40 | |
| acabot_ | flaper87 : yes | 20:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | ttx: you can do that actually, multi-phonics, but anyways, yeah, it did just that | 20:40 |
| edleafe | dhellmann: dynamic relocation of resources based on pre-defined criteria | 20:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | dhellmann: shuffle the deck so you can fit more VMs in, or some other handy things | 20:41 |
| ttx | dhellmann: resource placement. Think: consolidate VMs on machines and turn off others to reduce energy consumption | 20:41 |
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| ttx | or spread out heat | 20:41 |
| thingee | so heat mentions of doing auto scaling ... this wants to optimize resources | 20:41 |
| dims | ttx : i am wondering what kind of things they would need in say Nova or Neutron to make the optimizations possible. guess i have to go read up on what they are doing :) | 20:41 |
| edleafe | dhellmann: or spread them ouot to reduce noisy neighbors | 20:41 |
| dhellmann | very neat. how does that fit with congress' role? | 20:41 |
| johnthetubaguy | basically, it calls Nova's live-migrate, as I understand it | 20:41 |
| johnthetubaguy | post creating of instances | 20:41 |
| sdague | dims: there have been some specs | 20:41 |
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| edleafe | Congress could be a source for the strategies | 20:42 |
| dims | sdague : ah cool | 20:42 |
| * ttx has been doing his homework and can explain projects today | 20:42 | |
| dims | yay ttx :) | 20:42 |
| ttx | but really I should let acabot answer | 20:42 |
| * flaper87 copied ttx's homework | 20:42 | |
| thingee | so heat autoscale would be to add more instances and watcher is to move things around? | 20:42 |
| * edleafe hands ttx a sticker | 20:42 | |
| sdague | there were some concerns about how we were adapting our os-migrations API | 20:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | dims: actually edleafe's spec is one, about passing in a list of candidate hosts into live-migrate | 20:42 |
| sdague | thingee: yeh, this does not assume your stuff is 12 factor stateless apps | 20:42 |
| edleafe | dims: yeah, what johnthetubaguy said | 20:43 |
| sdague | it assumes the apps you launched is what you want | 20:43 |
| gordc | amrith: just fyi, we have a list of services that extend existing services under telemetry umbrella: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Telemetry#Externally_Managed | 20:43 |
| dims | edleafe : ack | 20:43 |
| sdague | and then tries to rejigger their placement to optimize for various things as time goes on | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | sdague : so watcher may know more about the cloud implementation than heat would take advantage of? | 20:43 |
| sdague | "cloud defrag" | 20:44 |
| flaper87 | acabot_: another small nit, sorry for not catching it earlier | 20:44 |
| edleafe | sdague: +1 | 20:44 |
| dhellmann | but less about the application? | 20:44 |
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| dims | acabot_ : one thing about heat was excessive polling of Nova API (as there's no other way to know what's going on)...wondering what kinds of hooks you need more than what exists today | 20:44 |
| * amrith responds to gordc privately to reduce cross-talk | 20:44 | |
| sdague | dhellmann: it knows about the application from a black box perspective | 20:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | heat starts VMs, watcher moves them later on | 20:44 |
| dhellmann | ok, makes sense | 20:44 |
| edleafe | dhellmann: yes. Heat is for tenants to optimize their apps, while Watcher is for ops to optimize their deployment | 20:44 |
| annegentle | sdague: I want a visual tool for that cloud defrag | 20:44 |
| johnthetubaguy | moves them after all your friends got deleted as they were less pet-ey than you | 20:45 |
| dhellmann | edleafe : that's very clear, thanks | 20:45 |
| russellb | this is a very traditional data center virt type feature, but i'm supportive of it | 20:45 |
| dhellmann | annegentle : little colored squares in your terminal? :-) | 20:45 |
| sdague | so, hey, people shut stuff down, I've got idle capacity on 4 racks, maybe I could get to 3 racks and power down rack 4 entirely to save cooling/power | 20:45 |
| dims | "pet-ey" :) nice johnthetubaguy | 20:45 |
| annegentle | dhellmann: zactly | 20:45 |
| acabot_ | flaper87 : done ;-) | 20:45 |
| sdague | it's still early, but it's definitely an interesting space to be tackling | 20:45 |
| johnthetubaguy | dims: heh, thats better than I intended | 20:45 |
| thingee | sdague: ok I think I got it. it's just confusing with things like auto scaling. | 20:45 |
| ttx | I like to think of it as more generally the background process that will apply some long-term optimization policy as you have churn on your resources | 20:45 |
| jroll | another example use case besides power saving: shuffle things around to get a bunch of empty hypervisors, update kernels on the empties, move things back around to get other empties | 20:46 |
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| sdague | jroll: right, from the "oh noes hypervisor exploit!" | 20:46 |
| sdague | pov | 20:46 |
| dims | jroll : sold! | 20:46 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, the updates is what makes defrag critical | 20:46 |
| edleafe | jroll: good point | 20:46 |
| jroll | sdague: or even basic cleanliness :) | 20:46 |
| russellb | "policy based live migration" is what it's called in some other things ... | 20:46 |
| ttx | Looks like we have a winner: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/320941/3 | 20:46 |
| sdague | jroll: yup | 20:47 |
| flaper87 | acabot_: thanks | 20:47 |
| acabot_ | thanks ! | 20:47 |
| sballe_ | thanks! | 20:47 |
| ttx | please vote there | 20:47 |
| ttx | and also at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/320296 | 20:47 |
| acabot_ | and sorry for not being reactive enough on all your comments ! | 20:47 |
| flaper87 | ifat_afek: one more nit, sorry :( | 20:47 |
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| dims | acabot_ : no worries. | 20:47 |
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| ttx | acabot_: you were reactive alright. Thanks for staying up | 20:47 |
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| edleafe | flaper87: eagle-eye! | 20:48 |
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| ttx | hmm https://review.openstack.org/#/c/320296 needs another turn | 20:48 |
| dhellmann | flaper87 : we could fix that in a follow-up to keep this moving. ttx can approve typo-fixes | 20:48 |
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| ttx | yeah | 20:48 |
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| dims | dhellmann : ttx : +1 | 20:49 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: good for me, just thought this one could be super quick | 20:49 |
| flaper87 | :D | 20:49 |
| ifat_afek | flaper87: sure, will fix in a minute. | 20:49 |
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| dhellmann | flaper87 : sure, either way, just wanted ifat_afek to get the vote today :-) | 20:49 |
| flaper87 | ifat_afek: you can do it in a follow-up | 20:49 |
| ttx | ok, let's give Ifat a couple more minutes | 20:49 |
| dims | acabot_ : ifat_afek : thanks! | 20:49 |
| ifat_afek | ifat | 20:49 |
| * flaper87 stfu | 20:49 | |
| flaper87 | we're confusing ifat_afek | 20:49 |
| flaper87 | hahahah | 20:49 |
| ttx | I'm approving Watcher now, please vote if you want to be counted | 20:49 |
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| annegentle | ttx: voted | 20:50 |
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| ttx | Alright done | 20:51 |
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| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:51 |
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| acabot_ | thanks ttx | 20:51 |
| sballe_ | +1 | 20:51 |
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| ttx | We have a number of stale changes that it might be good to quickly review | 20:52 |
| ttx | unless someone has another topic | 20:52 |
| jwcroppe | thx | 20:52 |
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| annegentle | I didn't get to my projects.yaml patch with the three-day weekend | 20:52 |
| ttx | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/293140/ was proposed by lifeless and was supposed to get another revision. If someone is interested you can pick it up | 20:52 |
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| flaper87 | We haven't posted anything lately (comm wg) and I think we've accumulated some interesting topics for a blog post | 20:53 |
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| flaper87 | annegentle: I can help drafting it | 20:53 |
| annegentle | flaper87: oh yeah, good point | 20:53 |
| ttx | There is also the series of changes for type:packaging and type:deployment tags (proposed by sdake) but I think those were made mostly redundant by our new cycle-trailing release model | 20:53 |
| dims | ttx : i'll volunteer to touch up that review from lifeless | 20:53 |
| ttx | dims: thx | 20:53 |
| dhellmann | annegentle, flaper87 : a summary of the golang discussion in particular, even though that's ongoing | 20:54 |
| ifat_afek | pushed another fix, waiting for git review :-) | 20:54 |
| ttx | If those don't get a refresh soon I'll probably abandon them to avoid clogging the view | 20:54 |
| notmorgan | ttx: just a drop the names? | 20:54 |
| notmorgan | ttx: who should be included for the review, the TC? | 20:54 |
| annegentle | flaper87: we've done a summit wrapup in the past (though is that old news by now?) | 20:54 |
| notmorgan | ttx: for the AGPL change | 20:54 |
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| annegentle | dhellmann: agreed, though that's difficult :) | 20:55 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: yeah, I think that one will take a couple of blog posts for sure. I guess we should start with a summary as you suggested | 20:55 |
| flaper87 | annegentle: mmh, I'd say it's | 20:55 |
| * notmorgan will fix that line quickly if we have direction on who should be included | 20:55 | |
| ttx | notmorgan: not sure what you're talking about | 20:55 |
| notmorgan | ttx: Good people to seek initial | 20:55 |
| notmorgan | opinions on such cases include Monty Taylor, Jim Blair and Robert Collins | 20:55 |
| annegentle | flaper87: a summary is straightforward | 20:55 |
| notmorgan | ttx: just drop that line? | 20:55 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I'll pick up those type tag reviews in the next couple of weeks if sdake_ doesn't | 20:56 |
| ttx | notmorgan: somethign like that. dims said he would pick it up though | 20:56 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: ok | 20:56 |
| notmorgan | ah ok | 20:56 |
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| dims | notmorgan : ttx : yep | 20:56 |
| * notmorgan didn't see dims responding | 20:56 | |
| johnthetubaguy | so I just did an inline edit, does that look better? | 20:56 |
| flaper87 | I ran the validate tags script yday and there are some "team" tags updates to do. I'll submit a patch in the next couple of days | 20:56 |
| notmorgan | johnthetubaguy: that was what i was going to do | 20:56 |
| notmorgan | ;) | 20:56 |
| flaper87 | do we have that automated ? | 20:56 |
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| ttx | Hmm, feels like we have enough votes on the Vitrage review with an S | 20:56 |
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| ttx | hm | 20:57 |
| ttx | ah, merge conflict now | 20:57 |
| ttx | bad voodoo on this one | 20:57 |
| flaper87 | :( | 20:57 |
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| ttx | ifat_afek: is your git review going through ? | 20:58 |
| ttx | And I thought my network was slow... | 20:58 |
| dhellmann | ttx: we've previously delegated rebasing approved patches like that and said you can approve once the rebase passes the tests | 20:58 |
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| ifat_afek | ttx: got messed up with some other updates, working on that | 20:58 |
| ttx | dhellmann: yeah, but looks better with proper recorded approvals | 20:58 |
| dims | johnthetubaguy : we should provide something like "drop a note to legal-discuss" or something like that at least | 20:58 |
| dhellmann | ttx: ok | 20:58 |
| johnthetubaguy | dims: we could | 20:58 |
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| annegentle | ok | 20:59 |
| ttx | flaper87, annegentle: so are you up for a blog post ? Feels like the project additions and the various other things we passed since the beginning is enough material | 20:59 |
| flaper87 | ttx: yes | 20:59 |
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| annegentle | ttx: ayup | 20:59 |
| dims | 1 min left | 20:59 |
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| flaper87 | annegentle: that's how one sneezes in spanish... almost | 20:59 |
| flaper87 | annegentle: s/y/ch/ | 21:00 |
| * amrith wonders if others have ticketed for the training in just over a month. | 21:00 | |
| annegentle | hee | 21:00 |
| flaper87 | random comment for the last minute open discussion | 21:00 |
| dhellmann | amrith : yes, I'm all booked | 21:00 |
| ttx | all booked | 21:00 |
| amrith | dhellmann, sheraton? | 21:00 |
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| amrith | ttx sheraton? | 21:00 |
| dims | have fun you all ! | 21:00 |
| dhellmann | amrith : one of the b&b options | 21:00 |
| * notmorgan needs to book travel. | 21:00 | |
| flaper87 | amrith: all booked | 21:00 |
| ttx | At a B&B | 21:00 |
| * jroll is local and commuting, no booking needed \o/ | 21:00 | |
| ttx | jroll: nice | 21:00 |
| notmorgan | jroll: oh nice. | 21:00 |
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| amrith | ok, thanks folks. | 21:00 |
| ttx | ok, time is up | 21:00 |
| * flaper87 is at the same b&b as ttx | 21:00 | |
| jroll | amrith: I have a couch! | 21:00 |
| ttx | we own the HOUSE | 21:01 |
| annegentle | oh nice jroll | 21:01 |
| dhellmann | thanks everyone, good meeting | 21:01 |
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| flaper87 | jroll: lucky | 21:01 |
| flaper87 | ++ | 21:01 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 31 21:01:16 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:01 |
| *** bIairo is now known as b1airo | 21:01 | |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-05-31-20.02.html | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-05-31-20.02.txt | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-05-31-20.02.log.html | 21:01 |
| oneswig | Take it away Mr Bethwaite... | 21:01 |
| b1airo | #startmeeting scientific-wg | 21:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 31 21:02:01 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is b1airo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'scientific_wg' | 21:02 |
| b1airo | #chair oneswig | 21:02 |
| openstack | Current chairs: b1airo oneswig | 21:02 |
| oneswig | Thank you sir! | 21:02 |
| b1airo | morning | 21:02 |
| oneswig | evening | 21:02 |
| b1airo | :-) | 21:02 |
| leong | hi | 21:02 |
| b1airo | hi leong | 21:02 |
| oneswig | Hi Leong | 21:02 |
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| b1airo | hi LyleWinton | 21:03 |
| LyleWinton | hey Blair | 21:03 |
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| oneswig | Hi Lyle | 21:03 |
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| LyleWinton | Stig? | 21:03 |
| oneswig | The same! | 21:04 |
| LyleWinton | Hi! | 21:04 |
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| b1airo | ok, let's get into it then | 21:05 |
| b1airo | quick roll call... | 21:06 |
| oneswig | here | 21:06 |
| leong | o/ | 21:06 |
| craigs | here | 21:06 |
| LyleWinton | here | 21:06 |
| b1airo | (if for nothing more than to get the meetbot stats up ;-) ) | 21:06 |
| oneswig | +1 :-) | 21:06 |
| anteaya | an important stat | 21:06 |
| b1airo | leong, craigs - would you please remind me of your names so I can try to recall? | 21:07 |
| leong | leong from Intel | 21:07 |
| craigs | Craig Sterrett | 21:07 |
| craigs | from Intel | 21:07 |
| leong | Yih Leong Sun :) | 21:07 |
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| b1airo | actually i should probably check irc before asking (sorry) ... | 21:08 |
| b1airo | thanks! | 21:08 |
| b1airo | #topic User Stories | 21:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "User Stories (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)" | 21:09 | |
| anteaya | do we have an agenda? | 21:09 |
| oneswig | We do, bear with me... | 21:09 |
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| anteaya | might we link to the agenda if we have one? | 21:09 |
| b1airo | yes: #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Scientific_working_group#IRC_Meeting_May_31st_2016 | 21:09 |
| anteaya | oneswig: thanks | 21:09 |
| anteaya | wonderful thank you | 21:09 |
| oneswig | Got there first b1airo! | 21:09 |
| b1airo | had it open | 21:10 |
| anteaya | :) | 21:10 |
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| oneswig | OK, first item under user stories was the idea of creating a whitepaper describing the current position on OpenStack and HPC | 21:10 |
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| rockyg | o/ | 21:11 |
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| oneswig | There is interest in creating this in a similar form to the previous papers on OpenStack and containers (for example) | 21:11 |
| b1airo | yes, so perhaps you can remind us of the approach you're talking with the cambridge paper oneswig ? | 21:11 |
| * b1airo admits he hasn't read one of those papers | 21:11 | |
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| oneswig | OK, so the background is I have a contract with Cambridge Uni to deliver a very similar study for informing their purposes | 21:12 |
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| rockyg | cool | 21:12 |
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| b1airo | and by the way, still happy to contribute to that if we can do so usefully | 21:12 |
| oneswig | And the plan is to extend that paper with further contribution, reshape it and improve it and then work with th eFoundation to shape it to their needs | 21:12 |
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| oneswig | b1airo: thanks, looking forward to that, will be in touch... | 21:13 |
| anteaya | what needs does the foundation have here? | 21:13 |
| anteaya | the user stories are for the scientific working group's consumption I had thought | 21:13 |
| b1airo | glossary brochures by the sound of it :-) | 21:13 |
| leong | oneswig can you share the whitepaper/sutdy with cambridge? | 21:13 |
| anteaya | b1airo: can't have too many of those | 21:13 |
| oneswig | anteaya: I'd say it's for anyone but the Scientific WG members | 21:14 |
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| oneswig | In the sense that that would be preaching to the choir | 21:14 |
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| oneswig | It's aim I think is to be outreach for organisations that could be considering this option | 21:14 |
| anteaya | oneswig: oh I mis-understood then | 21:14 |
| LyleWinton | agree with oneswig | 21:14 |
| b1airo | but you make a good point anteaya - the User Stories we want to define should be from the user base of the scientific-wg | 21:14 |
| leong | I think it will be great to produce a whitepaper talking about how OpenStack can support the HPC use case | 21:14 |
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| LyleWinton | Was the most frequent question after the scientific clouds panel in Austin, HPC and OS. | 21:15 |
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| anteaya | b1airo: yes that was what I had thought I heard from the beginning | 21:15 |
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| b1airo | yeah, there's a big gap there - we should simply create a wiki.o.o/HPC in the mean time | 21:15 |
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| anteaya | LyleWinton: what was the most frequent question? | 21:15 |
| b1airo | "Can I do HPC with/on OS?" | 21:16 |
| LyleWinton | anteaya: questions regarding HPC and OS. | 21:16 |
| anteaya | LyleWinton: right | 21:16 |
| anteaya | yes, that was what I had thought | 21:16 |
| anteaya | I just wonder where the foundation needs got in there? | 21:16 |
| oneswig | The interesting item to discuss for this WG is what members of this group might be able to contribute as material that exemplifies how OpenStack can be configured to deliver HPC | 21:16 |
| b1airo | to which the answer is "yes, for some definitions of HPC and OS" | 21:17 |
| oneswig | b1airo: Right, but lets say the document sticks some stakes in the ground (helping to skirt that tar pit!) | 21:17 |
| anteaya | b1airo: awesome and the user stories provide the definitions and examples, yeah? | 21:18 |
| b1airo | anteaya, i guess that would be ideal - but we need to define those... | 21:18 |
| anteaya | okay thanks | 21:19 |
| oneswig | I'm intending to produce with Cambridge a document that describes in some technical depth how a series of capabilities are delivered on OpenStack and introduce case studies and input from project leaders to reinforce | 21:19 |
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| anteaya | oneswig: can that be open sourced and considered a user story? | 21:19 |
| b1airo | oneswig, by project leaders i guess you mean science projects that use the infrastructure | 21:19 |
| oneswig | yes and yes, that's what I menat :-) | 21:20 |
| anteaya | oneswig: awesome! | 21:20 |
| anteaya | I think that will make a great user story | 21:20 |
| anteaya | and help drive the conversation in this space when you lead by example | 21:20 |
| oneswig | There would be a varying degree of reworking by the Foundation to make it into a freestanding whitepaper - or perhaps a set of connected chapters | 21:21 |
| LyleWinton | I have a slide (as of last night) on clusters/HPC cases in the NeCTAR research cloud. 11 specific cases I could follow up in more detail if needed. | 21:21 |
| anteaya | oneswig: 'reworking by the Foundation' what do you mean? | 21:21 |
| oneswig | LyleWinton: that's exactly the kind of material that would be help | 21:21 |
| LyleWinton | b1airo happens to be one of them ;) | 21:22 |
| oneswig | anteaya: I don't think anything i can produce matches the technical material the Foundation can produce, it'll need some polishing without doubt | 21:22 |
| anteaya | oneswig: as long as you have a licence on it that is one of our accepted open source licences it should be good | 21:22 |
| oneswig | ASL2? | 21:22 |
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| anteaya | oneswig: ah let's not put the cart before the horse, I think if you open source what you produce for cambridge we can address any issues that arise | 21:23 |
| anteaya | let's not create obstacles before you begin | 21:23 |
| oneswig | Every deliverable for this project is open source - terms of the contract | 21:23 |
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| anteaya | oneswig: awesome, makes it easy then | 21:23 |
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| b1airo | so should we have a 5 minute brainstorm on what some of our User Stories might be? | 21:24 |
| oneswig | Good idea | 21:24 |
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| LyleWinton | Other user stories do you mean b1airo: | 21:25 |
| oneswig | One user story that is endless in its variation is cluster-as-a-service. Is it possible to capture that in some constructive way and compare the ways? | 21:25 |
| b1airo | #idea I want to give users an easy on-demand HPC platform | 21:25 |
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| b1airo | jinx oneswig | 21:26 |
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| b1airo | or perhaps from the user's perspective (i always think architect/operator) ? | 21:26 |
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| LyleWinton | oneswig: we have a number of operators re-using patterns (orchestration scripts) created by other operators for building clusters, and several are in production use. | 21:27 |
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| anteaya | what is your definition of cluster? | 21:28 |
| oneswig | LyleWinton: that's useful information. And another way of doing it too. Vive la difference | 21:28 |
| anteaya | is a cloud a cluster? | 21:28 |
| b1airo | #idea I want to run my (persistent) HPC platform/service using OpenStack as the infrastructure provisioning system | 21:28 |
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| oneswig | anteaya: typically I'd say in scientific compute people would think of a workload manager queue system - typically SLURM | 21:29 |
| anteaya | thanks | 21:29 |
| LyleWinton | anteaya: these are mostly HPC like clusters, slurm or torque front ended. | 21:29 |
| b1airo | anteaya, yes probably, but i think we're usually talking about HPCC (high performance cluster computing) when we say clusters - which means batch system and/or low-latency interconnect | 21:29 |
| b1airo | good to see we all agree on that :-) | 21:30 |
| LyleWinton | anteaya: but some of the users say "they aren't HPC" because they use general purpose cloud infrastructure. never stopped most researchers using the definition in the past, but it's a distinction | 21:30 |
| oneswig | There's an open-ended discussion on how to count the ways, should we go onto idea 2? | 21:30 |
| b1airo | please | 21:30 |
| anteaya | thank you | 21:31 |
| dfflanders | Perhaps in addition to this ideas for the use cases you would like to have, would be to approach contacts from around the community and ask them to put forward use cases? See what arises from requesting use cases be put forward from well known scientific users like CERN, NASA, NSA, Cambridge, etc. | 21:31 |
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| oneswig | dfflanders: that's a good point | 21:32 |
| b1airo | dfflanders, definitely - but part of the problem i think we want to get towards solving today is figuring out a few examples to set the scene, else it's very open ended | 21:32 |
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| dfflanders | +1 | 21:32 |
| b1airo | so i said: "I want to run my (persistent) HPC platform/service using OpenStack as the infrastructure provisioning system" as a possible #2. thoughts? | 21:33 |
| oneswig | b1airo: how does OpenStack as an infrastructure provisioning system (idea 2) differ? | 21:33 |
| dfflanders | going to the users with some exemplars you'd like to achieve is a good approach imho. | 21:33 |
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| oneswig | Is this "I submit a job to SLURM, SLURM uses OpenStack to create infrastructure to run the job"? | 21:33 |
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| b1airo | that's distinct from HPC-aaS because the end-user does not necessarily see cloud anywhere | 21:33 |
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| b1airo | oneswig, it could be that dynamic yes, or just that all the compute nodes managed by SLURM are running on an OS cloud | 21:34 |
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| b1airo | with operator controlled expansion/contraction | 21:34 |
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| LyleWinton | Could I offer a perspective on how this might look to the world. scientific openstack = HPC ! Should we seek a different user story to HPC. | 21:35 |
| b1airo | and also typically a managed system, whereas HPC-aaS is usually fire and forget | 21:35 |
| b1airo | LyleWinton, for sure - getting there :-) | 21:36 |
| sdake_ | dhellmann i'll pick up the tag reviews this week | 21:36 |
| b1airo | you have #3 | 21:36 |
| LyleWinton | K | 21:36 |
| sdake_ | dhellmann apologies on lag, been super busy dealing with backlog | 21:36 |
| sdake_ | which keeps getting longer and longer | 21:36 |
| b1airo | oneswig, make sense? | 21:36 |
| sdake_ | going wrong direction :( | 21:36 |
| b1airo | sdake_, there's a meeting on in here :-) | 21:36 |
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| rockyg | sdake: could you be in the wrong channel? Maybe you want openstack-release? | 21:37 |
| oneswig | I'm thinking ... what a nice way of hiding the details of a cloud-centric implementation | 21:37 |
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| b1airo | i think #2 is where HPFS is likely to come in too | 21:38 |
| oneswig | A discussion for a user story would be interesting and I'd be interested to see how it might hide the overhead of OpenStack infrastrcutre creation | 21:38 |
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| rockyg | So, in some ways, what I'm reading is that you folks are identifying "work loads" or "work flows" which the scientific community uses and you need to define what they look like on OS | 21:39 |
| oneswig | HPFS could cut across many use cases, lets not box it in | 21:39 |
| b1airo | that's true, but is that a use case on its own ? | 21:40 |
| oneswig | rockyg: I think so, there's an amount of transposition between the interactive and flexible world of cloud versus the fast-but-inflexible world that HPC has lived in thus far | 21:40 |
| b1airo | or does it just fit into various others ? | 21:40 |
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| oneswig | b1airo: perhaps discussion HPFS impelmentation strategies falls better as reference architecture than user story, could this be a distinction? | 21:41 |
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| rockyg | then another good set of user stories is how OS allows a team/multi-team to move from one format to another or live side by side on the same cloud.... | 21:41 |
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| LyleWinton | One of our use cases is a bit hybrid if you like. Automated Galaxy portal creation back-ended by clusterman HPC creation. | 21:42 |
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| b1airo | rockyg, +1 | 21:42 |
| LyleWinton | rockyg +1 | 21:42 |
| b1airo | oneswig, yes that sounds eminently sensible | 21:43 |
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| LyleWinton | rockyg: we may have stories where OS allows separate research project to live side by side, which is of significant research value | 21:43 |
| b1airo | LyleWinton, I think that's a great exemplar of #1 ? | 21:44 |
| rockyg | oneswig, ++ so identify architectures, identify workloads, the boundaries of each and how to morph across them? | 21:44 |
| b1airo | Galaxy I mean | 21:44 |
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| LyleWinton | Ah, yes, you're right | 21:45 |
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| oneswig | LyleWinton: The Galaxy project is a good example of how cloud can be used to deliver something better than matching the functionality of what came before. I'd put it above cluster-as-a-service | 21:45 |
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| LyleWinton | b1airo: Oh, yes, it was one of the 11 that I was speaking of | 21:46 |
| b1airo | So we might be slowly getting somewhere here :-) - sounds like we want use-cases with exemplars and reference architectures for specific capabilities ...? | 21:46 |
| LyleWinton | oneswig: me too, but it's a cluster related pattern. One with a newer front end than slurm | 21:47 |
| rockyg | blairo, ++ might be easier to start with exemplars and fit the defining bits around them | 21:47 |
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| b1airo | rockyg, sure, either way is fine with me | 21:47 |
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| anteaya | sounds like it would be up to the person who wants to write them | 21:48 |
| rockyg | Pick a set of projects, then figure out the buckets that are the same and the ones that are different. Build the matrix, then reason about the info displayed | 21:48 |
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| b1airo | so just quickly, before we spend the last 10 minutes on this did anyone want to move on to other specific topics? i think this is a valuable discussion and happy to keep it going... | 21:48 |
| anteaya | I think that would depend on who is volunteering to do the work, so far it is oneswig | 21:48 |
| anteaya | so I'd say whatever he is most comfortable with | 21:49 |
| b1airo | we are more than open to having volunteers! | 21:49 |
| oneswig | I am definitely interested in hearing about volunteers to discuss areas of subject expertise! | 21:49 |
| rockyg | anteaya, ++ | 21:49 |
| anteaya | b1airo: oh yes | 21:49 |
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| oneswig | I have your powerpoint in my sights Lyle :-) | 21:50 |
| LyleWinton | On my todo list to send you! | 21:50 |
| oneswig | LyleWinton: thanks, appreciated | 21:50 |
| oneswig | b1airo: last ten minutes. | 21:51 |
| oneswig | Anything to report from last week | 21:51 |
| b1airo | yeah let's move on then | 21:51 |
| b1airo | #action Send summary of use-cases discussion to lists and seek input | 21:52 |
| b1airo | so i have a skeleton for the science cloud wiki page up: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Science_Clouds | 21:52 |
| b1airo | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Science_Clouds | 21:52 |
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| b1airo | still need to transfer more of the actual list over and follow up on checking out some of the clouds that were listed at the bottom | 21:53 |
| anteaya | the table looks good | 21:53 |
| b1airo | but mainly interested in feedback around the "Science Cloud" definition | 21:53 |
| anteaya | did you mean for Grid500 to be in square brackets? | 21:54 |
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| oneswig | Looks good so far. There are many Euro projects in this area I'm only dimly aware of | 21:54 |
| b1airo | anteaya: no, just a formatting glitch | 21:54 |
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| anteaya | b1airo: okay great, the wiki has a preview button you might find handy | 21:54 |
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| anteaya | also when editing a page it is helpful to add a note so you can find edits in the history | 21:55 |
| b1airo | i think the original etherpad was dfflanders brainchild but scientific-wg is best place to curate it from i guess | 21:55 |
| anteaya | the page looks good to me | 21:55 |
| rockyg | So, it sounds like this is more the Public Research cloud definition than Science | 21:56 |
| anteaya | I have something if we are in open discussion phase | 21:56 |
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| b1airo | rockyg, what's the distinction there (especially, what do you mean by Public)? | 21:56 |
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| b1airo | #topic General | 21:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "General (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)" | 21:57 | |
| oneswig | rockyg: It's interesting that there is a distinction. Mostly the distinction is in who gets to use it perhaps? | 21:57 |
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| oneswig | anteaya: shoot | 21:57 |
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| anteaya | thanks I have some suggestions for https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Scientific_working_group | 21:57 |
| rockyg | Well, both are good questions. The reason I said public research is specifically because of the footnote for "non-commercial" | 21:57 |
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| anteaya | put the history section above meetings and the meetings section as the last itme | 21:58 |
| anteaya | item | 21:58 |
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| anteaya | then have the agendas in reverse chronological order, so the most recent agenda is at the top | 21:58 |
| oneswig | anteaya: no problem with that, makes sense to me | 21:58 |
| LyleWinton | Feedback on wiki page. Not sure if research "data" needs mentioning explicitly. | 21:58 |
| anteaya | the page will get very long very fast | 21:58 |
| b1airo | rockyg, ahh right - i meant not-for-profit cloud infrastructure, not clear enough i guess | 21:58 |
| anteaya | oneswig: thanks | 21:58 |
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| anteaya | oneswig: I think it will improve useabiltiy once you have 30 or so meeting agendas in there | 21:58 |
| oneswig | anteaya: by that point perhaps all but the most recent meetings ought to be punted onto another page? | 21:59 |
| b1airo | i think we should just cap the number of agendas there | 21:59 |
| leong | that might also be different for "community science cloud" whereby it is only used by a subset of universities but not offered to "public consumption" | 21:59 |
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| anteaya | let's not plan on that | 21:59 |
| anteaya | let's plan for what we have now | 21:59 |
| rockyg | leong, ++ | 21:59 |
| anteaya | and then make changes once we have something concrete | 22:00 |
| b1airo | oneswig, better yet, we just dump the agenda into the IRC history and let that be the Internet reference for it (then delete from the wiki) | 22:00 |
| anteaya | b1airo: there you go | 22:00 |
| oneswig | b1airo: seems OK to me, no value in keeping it for too long | 22:00 |
| rockyg | blairo ++ | 22:00 |
| b1airo | just creating work for ourselves in shuffling content around | 22:00 |
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| anteaya | technical committee and infra just change the same agenda in place: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 22:01 |
| anteaya | and link to the meeting logs | 22:01 |
| oneswig | time's up | 22:01 |
| anteaya | thank you | 22:01 |
| oneswig | thanks everyone | 22:01 |
| b1airo | so it is! | 22:01 |
| anteaya | lovely meeting | 22:01 |
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| b1airo | thanks all | 22:01 |
| oneswig | until next time! | 22:01 |
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| rockyg | Thanks all! | 22:01 |
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| LyleWinton | TTFN | 22:01 |
| b1airo | #endmeeting | 22:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 31 22:01:44 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-05-31-21.02.html | 22:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-05-31-21.02.txt | 22:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-05-31-21.02.log.html | 22:01 |
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| lifeless | dims: thanks | 22:50 |
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