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| mkrai | #startmeeting zun | 03:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 12 03:00:02 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mkrai. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 03:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 03:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'zun' | 03:00 |
| mkrai | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun#Agenda_for_2016-07-12_0300_UTC Today's agenda | 03:00 |
| mkrai | #topic Roll Call | 03:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:00 | |
| Wenzhi | Wenzhi Yu | 03:00 |
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| sudipto | o/ | 03:00 |
| yanyanhu | hello | 03:00 |
| shubhams | shubham o/ | 03:00 |
| eliqiao | o/ | 03:00 |
| mkrai | Thanks Wenzhi sudipto yanyanhu shubhams eliqiao for joining today | 03:01 |
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| mkrai | Let's wait for a minute for others to join | 03:01 |
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| mkrai | #topic Announcements | 03:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:02 | |
| Namrata_ | O/ | 03:02 |
| mkrai | hongbin is on travel this week so I will chair this meeting. | 03:02 |
| mkrai | Hey Namrata_ | 03:02 |
| mkrai | Any other announcement from team? | 03:02 |
| yanyanhu | he is gonna join openstack day china I think :) | 03:02 |
| mkrai | Yes I think he already have done it | 03:03 |
| yanyanhu | yea | 03:03 |
| flwang1 | o/ | 03:03 |
| mkrai | Hey flwang1 | 03:03 |
| eliqiao | mkrai: not yet, it's the day after tomorrow. | 03:03 |
| vivek___ | o/ | 03:03 |
| flwang1 | mkrai: hey there | 03:03 |
| mkrai | Oh I see | 03:03 |
| mkrai | Hi vivek___ | 03:03 |
| mkrai | #topic Review Action Items | 03:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Action Items (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:03 | |
| mkrai | hongbin create an etherpad for the COE API design (TBD) | 03:04 |
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| mkrai | This task is still to be done | 03:04 |
| mkrai | We will discuss the status in next meeting | 03:04 |
| mkrai | Anyone has something to add on this? | 03:04 |
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| mkrai | Ok let's advance topic | 03:05 |
| mkrai | #topic Runtimes API design | 03:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Runtimes API design (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:05 | |
| mkrai | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/api-design The BP | 03:05 |
| mkrai | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-containers-service-api Etherpad | 03:05 |
| mkrai | Ok so I have written down all the basic APIs for containers | 03:06 |
| mkrai | And also some advanced and miscellaneous | 03:06 |
| mkrai | I will wait for few minutes for everyone to read | 03:06 |
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| mkrai | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-containers-service-api-spec | 03:07 |
| mkrai | Please see above link | 03:07 |
| mkrai | Please feel free to add or update any APIs | 03:08 |
| mkrai | I plan to submit spec this week | 03:08 |
| yanyanhu | quick question, for basic operations like CUDR, will COEs and runtime based implementation share the same API interface? | 03:08 |
| mkrai | yanyanhu, As of now, no | 03:09 |
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| yanyanhu | I see | 03:09 |
| mkrai | It is quite not possible to club both APIs | 03:09 |
| yanyanhu | yes, feel so as well | 03:09 |
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| mkrai | We will create APIs for COEs this week or so | 03:09 |
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| mkrai | Ok I will leave etherpad offline, please add your ideas | 03:10 |
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| mkrai | Shall we advance or someone has to add anything? | 03:11 |
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| yanyanhu | will add comment offline | 03:11 |
| mkrai | Ok thanks yanyanhu | 03:12 |
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| mkrai | #topic Nova integration | 03:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Nova integration (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:12 | |
| mkrai | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/nova-integration The BP | 03:12 |
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| mkrai | Is aditi here today? | 03:12 |
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| yanyanhu | guess not | 03:13 |
| mkrai | Ok I think she has not attended quite few meetings | 03:13 |
| mkrai | And as I feel this bp is important for us, so please feel free to take up this one | 03:13 |
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| mkrai | Anyone interested here to work on this? | 03:13 |
| Namrata | Yes I am | 03:14 |
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| mkrai | Thanks Namrata | 03:14 |
| mkrai | Please connect with aditi | 03:14 |
| yanyanhu | And I guess we may need a spec or etherpad for this topic as well | 03:14 |
| Namrata | Okay | 03:14 |
| yanyanhu | for discussion and tracking | 03:14 |
| mkrai | Agree yanyanhu | 03:14 |
| Wenzhi | +1 | 03:14 |
| mkrai | Yes it will be bit complex as compared to ironic driver | 03:15 |
| mkrai | #action mkrai to create an etherpad for nova-integration | 03:15 |
| yanyanhu | yes, not that straightfoward I think | 03:15 |
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| sudipto | If i may - what does the nova-integration actually mean? Creating a compute driver for zun? | 03:16 |
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| mkrai | sudipto, yes | 03:16 |
| Namrata | Yes | 03:16 |
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| sudipto | and ... how does it have similarity to ironic? In terms of a 2 layered scheduler? | 03:17 |
| mkrai | sudipto, yes that's what I am trying to highlight that it would be complex as Zun will also have its own scheduler | 03:17 |
| sudipto | also, how is it going to be different from the nova-docker driver? | 03:17 |
| mkrai | nova-docker driver has very limited functionality I guess | 03:18 |
| mkrai | And not even maintained well | 03:18 |
| sudipto | but has an overlap to this...you probably know why it had issues... | 03:18 |
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| sudipto | that is w.r.t not integrating well with nova. | 03:18 |
| mkrai | I agree to it to some extent as containers and vms are not same | 03:19 |
| sudipto | yeah and i think the same debate is going to come up again with this? | 03:19 |
| mkrai | But here we just aim to provide same set of nova APIs for containers | 03:20 |
| mkrai | Yes certainly | 03:20 |
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| mkrai | Nova is good point to sell Zun IMO | 03:20 |
| sudipto | Nova providing same set of APIs for containers was the problem with the nova-docker driver AFAIK. | 03:20 |
| Wenzhi | I agree, limited by nova data model, I think nova-zun driver will also be difficult to design | 03:21 |
| mkrai | sudipto, ack | 03:21 |
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| mkrai | It is quite difficult to take out common APIs between VMs and containers, but still we have few that satifies both | 03:22 |
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| sudipto | I tend to think that the Nova workflow could actually cater to something like an isolated/secure container workflow, that has overlaps with a VM lifecycle. | 03:23 |
| mkrai | And IMO it's worth spending some effort to consider this | 03:23 |
| mkrai | sudipto, Sorry I don't get it. Could you please explain? | 03:24 |
| sudipto | mkrai, going with a container API that fits the VM APIs is fundamentally wrong and it would lead to the same fate as nova-dockers at least that's what i feel. However, if you imagine something like a container in a VM workflow - that probably fits the APIs of a Virtual Machine. | 03:25 |
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| sudipto | however with that said - we are free to try and still do whatever we think is the best :) | 03:26 |
| mkrai | sudipto, What I understand here is the host where we are running our containers. Right? | 03:26 |
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| sudipto | mkrai, didn't understand your last statement? | 03:27 |
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| mkrai | Ok the point you stated is one where we are running containers inside vm or not inside vm | 03:27 |
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| sudipto | we have stated that we want to support hyper like workflows into openstack - i meant that use case could fit into a nova integration per say - but in general running containers with Nova APIs - sounds similar to nova-docker. | 03:28 |
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| sudipto | I would like to hear everyone's thought around it as well, who knows - i might be short sighted here :) | 03:29 |
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| mkrai | yes I agree that is similar to nova-docker but with more features | 03:29 |
| mkrai | More container runtime tools and also COEs | 03:29 |
| mkrai | Yes I want to ask team here | 03:30 |
| shubhams | You are right sudipto , but anyway from an instance's perspective (baremetal/vm/container) , we need to use nova only, right? | 03:30 |
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| mkrai | Do they feel this work is worth spending some effort? | 03:30 |
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| sudipto | shubhams, you mean provision the instance via nova and then have containers run inside them via zun? | 03:30 |
| shubhams | nope, I mean everything ( a vm/bm or container ) should be provisioned by nova | 03:31 |
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| mkrai | shubhams, Yes we aim to do so | 03:31 |
| mkrai | But it is not hard and fast | 03:31 |
| sudipto | shubhams, why? | 03:31 |
| sudipto | are you referring to the host management being done by nova? | 03:31 |
| shubhams | Yes sudipto | 03:32 |
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| mkrai | Ok let's take this discussion in Open discussion | 03:32 |
| sudipto | alrite. | 03:32 |
| shubhams | are we bound to use nova for all this ? | 03:32 |
| mkrai | Thanks | 03:32 |
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| mkrai | #topic Re-consider RabbitMQ. How about using key/value store (i.e. etcd) for passing messages | 03:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Re-consider RabbitMQ. How about using key/value store (i.e. etcd) for passing messages (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:32 | |
| mkrai | In our last meeting, we discussed about managing state of containers in Zun | 03:33 |
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| mkrai | We talked about etcd which is distributed key-value store | 03:33 |
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| mkrai | However we also discussed few more options like rabbitmq and taskflow. | 03:33 |
| mkrai | I want to know team's opinion on it. | 03:33 |
| mkrai | I gues yuanying is not present today | 03:33 |
| mkrai | s/gues/guess/ | 03:33 |
| Wenzhi | for passing messages, I prefer rabbitmq | 03:34 |
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| sudipto | I think we need a PoC for etcd | 03:34 |
| mkrai | +1 sudipto | 03:34 |
| Wenzhi | I think etcd is not designed for this(message exchange) | 03:34 |
| mkrai | I strongly feel so | 03:34 |
| mkrai | Yes it is meant to store distributed data | 03:34 |
| Wenzhi | yes | 03:34 |
| mkrai | Anyone is interested in doing this work? | 03:35 |
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| shubhams | ok .. I will take this up | 03:36 |
| shubhams | althouugh its new for me .. but will see how to do that | 03:36 |
| mkrai | Thanks shubhams | 03:36 |
| mkrai | Appreciate it | 03:36 |
| mkrai | I feel a bp is also needed for it | 03:36 |
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| mkrai | #action shubhams to create a bp for managing state of containers | 03:37 |
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| itzdilip | <mkrai> <shubhams> i like to join too in that | 03:37 |
| mkrai | Thanks itzdilip | 03:37 |
| mkrai | You can work together with shubhams | 03:37 |
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| mkrai | Please feel free to ping me or hongbin anytime on this | 03:38 |
| shubhams | thanks itzdilip | 03:38 |
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| mkrai | Do anyone has something to add? | 03:38 |
| itzdilip | <shubhams> <mkrai> sure I will | 03:38 |
| mkrai | Also yuanying is good point of contact for same | 03:39 |
| shubhams | mkrai, ok we will connect with yuanying | 03:39 |
| mkrai | Thanks shubhams | 03:40 |
| mkrai | Shall we advance topic? | 03:40 |
| shubhams | yep | 03:40 |
| mkrai | #topic Open Discussion | 03:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:40 | |
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| mkrai | sudipto, We can continue the discussion | 03:41 |
| sudipto | mkrai, well i guess i was trying to understand shubhams point on 'why nova is needed' | 03:41 |
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| mkrai | shubhams, Would you like to answer? | 03:42 |
| shubhams | My point on nova integration was : Before going ahead , we should first note it down (may be on etherpad) that do we really want to work around "Nova" or we want a separate solution . | 03:42 |
| shubhams | s/work around/work around with nova | 03:43 |
| mkrai | shubhams, Separate solution for us is Zun itseld | 03:43 |
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| sudipto | Zun should be designed as independently as possible IMHO | 03:43 |
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| mkrai | Yes sudipto that we all agree | 03:43 |
| sudipto | ok - i don't mean to derail the approach...please go ahead if you think it's needed :) | 03:44 |
| sudipto | and it's something that can eventually fly. | 03:44 |
| sudipto | I am sure there are probably strong reasons behind doing it. | 03:44 |
| mkrai | This bp just aims to provision containers from nova as we provision baremetal | 03:44 |
| mkrai | And that shouldn't impact Zun design at all | 03:45 |
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| sudipto | baremetal provisioning forms a pre-requisite to VM provisioning, i am not sure that's the case here. | 03:45 |
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| sudipto | if you ask me, i feel baremetal could be made as a pre-req for container provisioning - but that means an ironic integration to zun | 03:46 |
| mkrai | That is the host where we run our container i.e host management | 03:47 |
| mkrai | And we are not targeting host management in this bp | 03:47 |
| mkrai | Exactly the same way nova-docker does | 03:47 |
| shubhams | Yep .. so let host management be the responsibility of nova and container management is left for Zun , right? | 03:48 |
| mkrai | shubhams, agree with later part | 03:48 |
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| mkrai | But host management is itself a huge topic in itself | 03:48 |
| sudipto | think of it like this - if host management is done by nova or something else - why make zun worry about it? | 03:49 |
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| shubhams | Sudipto, agree | 03:49 |
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| mkrai | Host management can be independent of Zun. Operators can manage host or we might in future want to manage it ourself | 03:49 |
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| mkrai | It can be either we already have pool of host or we provision one at runtime | 03:50 |
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| mkrai | There are many options that we can think of | 03:51 |
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| mkrai | Team I want to record an action, whether we want to spend effort on this task? | 03:52 |
| shubhams | I may be wrong but my whole point is : if we are creating something relevent to what already exists (ex: nova-docker) then we should we have clear boundaries and reasons that why we need the solution that we want to create. | 03:52 |
| mkrai | +1 shubhams | 03:52 |
| shubhams | and so far I am not sure why we need this | 03:52 |
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| mkrai | #action madhuri Add points why we want to integrate with nova on BP whiteboard | 03:53 |
| mkrai | Team feel free to add any points that you have in mind | 03:53 |
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| shubhams | Yes sure | 03:53 |
| mkrai | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/nova-integration | 03:54 |
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| mkrai | Any more discussion do you want to have? | 03:55 |
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| mkrai | If not, I will end meeting early | 03:55 |
| shubhams | seems ok to me | 03:55 |
| mkrai | Thanks everyone for joining | 03:55 |
| Wenzhi | thanks all | 03:55 |
| Namrata_ | Thanks | 03:55 |
| mkrai | #endmeeting | 03:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 03:56 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 12 03:56:02 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 03:56 |
| shubhams | Thanks | 03:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-07-12-03.00.html | 03:56 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-07-12-03.00.txt | 03:56 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-07-12-03.00.log.html | 03:56 |
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| Qiming | #startmeeting senlin | 13:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 12 13:00:07 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'senlin' | 13:00 |
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| Qiming | evening | 13:00 |
| zzxwill_ | Good evening. | 13:00 |
| cschulz | Hi | 13:01 |
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| xuhaiwei_ | hi | 13:01 |
| yanyanhu | hi | 13:01 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, I thought you are offline :) my network is really poor, sigh | 13:01 |
| elynn | Hi, already started? | 13:01 |
| Qiming | yanyanhu, ok | 13:01 |
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| Qiming | let's get started | 13:01 |
| Qiming | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-newton-workitems | 13:02 |
| Qiming | newton work items | 13:02 |
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| Qiming | I don't have additional agenda items to propose, if you have some, please revise the agenda and let me know | 13:02 |
| Qiming | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda | 13:02 |
| lixinhui_ | hi | 13:03 |
| Qiming | back to etherpad | 13:03 |
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| Qiming | tempest testing - done? | 13:03 |
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| yanyanhu | hi, looks like my network disconnected for a little while | 13:03 |
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| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes | 13:04 |
| yanyanhu | tempest test is done | 13:04 |
| Qiming | great, thx | 13:04 |
| Qiming | removing line 4-6 | 13:04 |
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| Qiming | do we want to add some integration tests? | 13:04 |
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| Qiming | doesn't look like a challenging task, but still need some design | 13:05 |
| yanyanhu | no problem :) | 13:05 |
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| Qiming | ok | 13:05 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes, that's a good idea | 13:05 |
| Qiming | next is performance evaluation | 13:05 |
| yanyanhu | we can start from a simple one | 13:06 |
| Qiming | any updates? lixinhui_ ? | 13:06 |
| yanyanhu | just to verify the interaction between senlin and nova | 13:06 |
| lixinhui_ | around the end of July | 13:06 |
| lixinhui_ | I can get performance test bed again | 13:06 |
| Qiming | yanyanhu, that's fine | 13:06 |
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| Qiming | thanks, lixinhui_ | 13:07 |
| lixinhui_ | then we can try the nova | 13:07 |
| lixinhui_ | settings | 13:07 |
| Qiming | okay | 13:07 |
| Qiming | what's the status of rally stress testing now? yanyanhu | 13:07 |
| yanyanhu | that patch for cluster/profile plugins is still pending there | 13:08 |
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| yanyanhu | will contact with rally team to merge it | 13:08 |
| yanyanhu | I think it has been ready | 13:08 |
| Qiming | sounds good | 13:08 |
| yanyanhu | in my local repo. I also finished test job for scaling and resizing | 13:09 |
| Qiming | moving on ... | 13:09 |
| Qiming | health management | 13:09 |
| yanyanhu | but will wait for the basic cluster/profile support | 13:09 |
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| lixinhui_ | I am investigating the nova event | 13:10 |
| lixinhui_ | about host failure | 13:10 |
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| Qiming | are they sending out any notifications when a compute node is down? | 13:10 |
| lixinhui_ | and manually try live miggration | 13:10 |
| lixinhui_ | Qiming, still need check | 13:10 |
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| lixinhui_ | will give result this week | 13:11 |
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| Qiming | great! | 13:11 |
| lixinhui_ | seems live migration | 13:11 |
| lixinhui_ | behave not steady | 13:11 |
| lixinhui_ | and need quiet few of settings | 13:11 |
| lixinhui_ | like libvert version | 13:12 |
| lixinhui_ | and ssh connection between the source and target host | 13:12 |
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| Qiming | live migration is not easy | 13:12 |
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| lixinhui_ | if so, we may need to involve system level operation | 13:13 |
| Qiming | not sure how many people are doing live migration in production environments | 13:13 |
| lixinhui_ | since we can not think all the nodes ready for live migration | 13:13 |
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| Qiming | but we will need to know host failures anyway | 13:14 |
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| lixinhui_ | okay | 13:14 |
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| lixinhui_ | anyway, KVM live migration is less efficient than vsphere | 13:15 |
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| Qiming | the lbaas bug has been there for quite a while, just checked the bug comment history | 13:15 |
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| lixinhui_ | the bug is tagged as "low handing fruit" | 13:16 |
| Qiming | it is labeled 'low-hanging-fruit' ... but no one is fixing it, it is assigned and reassigned and reassigned ... | 13:16 |
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| lixinhui_ | ... | 13:16 |
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| lixinhui_ | I already assigned it to myself | 13:16 |
| lixinhui_ | but need people to review | 13:16 |
| lixinhui_ | if saw the history | 13:16 |
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| Qiming | yes, it was reported on Feb 23 | 13:17 |
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| lixinhui_ | I already sticked the fix link there | 13:17 |
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| Qiming | okay, that two patches are all that needed to fix the bug? | 13:18 |
| lixinhui_ | yes | 13:18 |
| lixinhui_ | one is framework, the other is implements for driver of octvia | 13:18 |
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| Qiming | then you are supposed to add the 'bug' tag like this in both patches: partial-bug: #1548774 | 13:19 |
| openstack | bug 1548774 in neutron "LBaas V2: operating_status of 'dead' member is always online with Healthmonitor" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1548774 | 13:19 |
| Qiming | because neither patch is closing the bug | 13:19 |
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| lixinhui_ | okay | 13:21 |
| lixinhui_ | I will try | 13:21 |
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| Qiming | if we need to push octvia team, we should do it | 13:21 |
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| lixinhui_ | need let the framework one pass firstly | 13:22 |
| lixinhui_ | then octavia and nsx will follow quickly | 13:22 |
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| Qiming | so there is a dependency between those patches | 13:22 |
| Qiming | need to remind the reviewers as well | 13:22 |
| lixinhui_ | yes | 13:22 |
| Qiming | ok | 13:23 |
| Qiming | threshold for cluster health status | 13:23 |
| lixinhui_ | already add the dependency in the commit message | 13:23 |
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| lixinhui_ | will add comments if help | 13:23 |
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| Qiming | lixinhui_, contact the reviewers if necessary | 13:23 |
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| Qiming | not all reviewers have subscribed to bug reports I think | 13:24 |
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| lixinhui_ | oh, okay | 13:24 |
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| Qiming | comments there may get unnoticed/ignored easily | 13:24 |
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| Qiming | threshold for cluster health status, do we agree to remove that item from the etherpad? | 13:25 |
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| Qiming | we had that discussion at least twice in the past, it seems to me we don't have an urgent need to add an additional watermark at the moment | 13:26 |
| Qiming | ? | 13:26 |
| lixinhui_ | I agree | 13:27 |
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| yanyanhu | hi, just dropped | 13:27 |
| xuhaiwei_ | yes, we can remove I think | 13:27 |
| Qiming | okay, removing it | 13:28 |
| Qiming | about the HA story line, I'm not aware of any comments/revisions at this moment | 13:28 |
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| Qiming | please don't hesitate to input your thoughts if you have got some | 13:29 |
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| Qiming | fencing support | 13:29 |
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| Qiming | any design/code for review? | 13:30 |
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| lixinhui_ | I can share manual steps out | 13:30 |
| lixinhui_ | but got no much time thinking design yet | 13:30 |
| Qiming | okay, if needed, we can create a BP for this | 13:31 |
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| Qiming | or a spec | 13:31 |
| lixinhui_ | okay | 13:31 |
| Qiming | need a "whiteboard" to collect ideas | 13:31 |
| Qiming | moving on | 13:32 |
| lixinhui_ | need cluster-do firstly to install fencing lib | 13:32 |
| lixinhui_ | maybe ... | 13:32 |
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| lixinhui_ | we discuss more in next few days | 13:32 |
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| Qiming | no update on documentation from my side, deeply trapped by troubles/happiness at home | 13:32 |
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| Qiming | okay, we can discuss that for sure | 13:33 |
| zzxwill_ | 'some use cases' for what function? | 13:33 |
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| Qiming | I'm not sure if we need to install something | 13:33 |
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| Qiming | zzxwill_, it is about autoscaling, load-balancing, rolling-upgrade, high-availability ... | 13:34 |
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| zzxwill_ | Noted. | 13:34 |
| Qiming | the idea is to write something so that users will get a better idea what they can do with senlin | 13:34 |
| Qiming | moving on ... | 13:35 |
| Qiming | container support, haiwei? | 13:35 |
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| xuhaiwei_ | I want to have some discussion with you guys | 13:35 |
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| Qiming | sure, feel free to call for a online discussion or a phone call, ... whatever | 13:36 |
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| xuhaiwei_ | first one is shall we use floating_ip in docker client's url | 13:36 |
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| Qiming | last review comment was from May 26 | 13:36 |
| Qiming | (referring to the spec) | 13:36 |
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| xuhaiwei_ | the spec may be not a good place to discuss | 13:37 |
| zzxwill_ | Qiming, for example, we need to complete 'Making Your Cluster Elastic | 13:37 |
| zzxwill_ | ' http://docs.openstack.org/developer/senlin/tutorial/autoscaling.html? | 13:37 |
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| xuhaiwei_ | I will create an ether pad to list the questions I want to discuss with you | 13:37 |
| Qiming | okay, got it, we have quite some tech details for discussion | 13:37 |
| Qiming | okay, pls share with the team | 13:38 |
| xuhaiwei_ | ok | 13:38 |
| Qiming | zzxwill_, correct, that is the tutorial documentation we have yet to work on | 13:38 |
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| zzxwill_ | Got it, thanks. | 13:39 |
| Qiming | engine side, no update from me | 13:39 |
| Qiming | zaqar receiver | 13:39 |
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| Qiming | yanyan has proposed patches to openstacksdk, not elegant solution, but workable | 13:40 |
| yanyanhu | yes, spent some time working on zaqar driver last two weeks | 13:40 |
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| Qiming | hopefully we can convince that team that a 'headers' param is needed for sure | 13:40 |
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| yanyanhu | I think biran has agree we can use current implementation as solution for zaqar api resources | 13:41 |
| Qiming | we need that param to send 'openstack-api-version' header so that 'cluster-collect' can work | 13:41 |
| yanyanhu | but not sure whether there will be a more generic solution come in future | 13:41 |
| Qiming | I think that is a wrong decision | 13:41 |
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| Qiming | the correct fix should be revise the resource2.Resource code, so that a 'headers' param can be passed | 13:41 |
| Qiming | then you don't have to duplicate the code in your queue implementation | 13:42 |
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| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes | 13:42 |
| Qiming | anyway, a small step is still a step forward | 13:42 |
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| yanyanhu | btw, a more difficult issue we will encounter is zaqar queue update API needs special definition for 'content-type' header | 13:42 |
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| Qiming | event/notification --- I don't have progress to update, sorry | 13:43 |
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| Qiming | we can hide that behind the zaqar service api in SDK | 13:43 |
| yanyanhu | but in keystoneauth, request method will always set 'content-type' to 'application/json' when sending out patch request | 13:43 |
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| yanyanhu | so still didn't find a workaround for it | 13:44 |
| Qiming | the internal resource2.Resource class should open to all headers | 13:44 |
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| Qiming | .... I'm speechless on this | 13:44 |
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| Qiming | have you mentioned that to feilong? | 13:44 |
| yanyanhu | unless we can make some changes on the implementation of keystoneauth1.session | 13:45 |
| yanyanhu | although we currently don't need queue update API interface I think | 13:45 |
| Qiming | it sounds like their problem to fix | 13:45 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes | 13:45 |
| yanyanhu | I feel so as well | 13:45 |
| yanyanhu | will talk with feilong about it | 13:45 |
| yanyanhu | looks like a big problem | 13:45 |
| Qiming | okay | 13:45 |
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| Qiming | let's move on to the next topic | 13:46 |
| Qiming | #topic barcelona summit | 13:46 |
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| Qiming | I have spent some time yesterday and today on reviewing all the proposals I know of | 13:46 |
| Qiming | 15208: Get Your Resource Pool Managed on OpenStack | 13:46 |
| Qiming | 15209: Managing clusters of thousands of VMs using Senlin | 13:46 |
| Qiming | 15037: On Building an Auto-healing Resource Cluster using Senlin | 13:46 |
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| lixinhui_ | And | 13:47 |
| lixinhui_ | 15251 | 13:47 |
| lixinhui_ | Extensible, Flexible, Fine-granularity Cluster Management and Controlling Tool - Senlin | 13:47 |
| Qiming | when reviewing these proposals, I really like 15037 - the HA story and 15209 - the scalability analysis and experience sharing | 13:48 |
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| Qiming | still strugging with 15208 - the comparison between heat resource types and senlin service | 13:48 |
| yanyanhu | for 15208, maybe change the name to "Get Your Resource Pool Better Managed on OpenStack"? | 13:48 |
| Qiming | when revising that one, I have got some feeling that the comparison is unfair | 13:49 |
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| Qiming | we are comparing apple to orange | 13:49 |
| Qiming | we cannot compare a resource type to a service | 13:49 |
| xuhaiwei_ | I think we can say by using Senlin, user can use Heat better | 13:50 |
| Qiming | what's more, we have already delivered a strong message during Austin summit -- what senlin is, why we started it, it's status, its plan | 13:50 |
| elynn | I just want users to be aware of senlin cluster and maybe migrate from heat ASG to senlin cluster after listening this presentation. | 13:50 |
| Qiming | elynn, users have their own concerns when doing this migration | 13:51 |
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| Qiming | if that is the point we want to deliver, we'd better provide some tool/guide for them | 13:51 |
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| yanyanhu | so maybe we focus on a specific scenario, autoscaling to deliver the idea | 13:51 |
| Qiming | it doesn't sound that sexy a topic for the barcelona summit | 13:52 |
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| yanyanhu | we compare the cons and pros and why there are those difference | 13:52 |
| yanyanhu | then give user the knowledge about both of them | 13:52 |
| elynn | By comparing the details of heat ASG and senlin, they might know of what heat ASG can do and what Senlin cluster can do, so they won't keep asking heat to add more features to ASG | 13:52 |
| Qiming | why do we need to do that again and again? | 13:52 |
| Qiming | elynn, are you aware of any such requests lately? | 13:53 |
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| yanyanhu | this can be a pure technical comparison I feel | 13:53 |
| Qiming | if there are such request, can we redirect them to senlin ? | 13:53 |
| elynn | Not from community | 13:54 |
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| yanyanhu | I guess some users will ask this question :P | 13:54 |
| Qiming | back in austin, we have three talks, and in each one of them, we mentioned that difference | 13:54 |
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| yanyanhu | since they don't have time to read the code and they want to understand the tech differentiation between these two designs :) | 13:54 |
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| Qiming | it is not interesting to me | 13:54 |
| Qiming | I'm more interested in topic 4 | 13:55 |
| elynn | I think we might need to address those questions in a public place, like summit. | 13:55 |
| Qiming | the cluster-do feature | 13:55 |
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| Qiming | which is totally new, and designed to solve real life problems for operators | 13:55 |
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| Qiming | this time, we have got some restrictions on proposals | 13:56 |
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| Qiming | each presenter can have at most 3 talk proposals, and each proposal may have at most 3 speakers | 13:56 |
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| Qiming | so ... I'd like moving my name from the 3rd topic to the 4th one | 13:57 |
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| yanyanhu | that is ok I think. We can reorg our presentation later if they are accepted I think ? | 13:57 |
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| yanyanhu | to better present to the audience | 13:58 |
| lixinhui_ | sounds good | 13:58 |
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| lixinhui_ | the limits are hash | 13:58 |
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| lixinhui_ | s/hash/harsh | 13:58 |
| yanyanhu | so the deadline is tomorrow night beijing time? | 13:58 |
| Qiming | yes | 13:59 |
| Qiming | we don't have much time on this | 13:59 |
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| yanyanhu | ok, so we have one day to revise the proposal | 13:59 |
| Qiming | I have revised topic 3 | 13:59 |
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| yanyanhu | need to finish it tomorrow morning | 13:59 |
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| zzxwill_ | 'The content on this page is obsolete. The autoscaling solution is offloaded from Heat to Senlin since Mitaka." I learn this official message recently. Sounds cool! | 13:59 |
| Qiming | I mean the text, I'd propose replace my name by someone else | 13:59 |
| elynn | yes, not much time to do it | 13:59 |
| Qiming | ... oh ... time's up | 13:59 |
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| Qiming | pls go back to #senlin channel for this | 14:00 |
| yanyanhu | lets move back to senlin channel | 14:00 |
| Qiming | we'd release this channel | 14:00 |
| lixinhui_ | ok | 14:00 |
| zzxwill_ | Okay. | 14:00 |
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| Qiming | thanks for joining everyone | 14:00 |
| Qiming | #endmeeting | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 12 14:00:17 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-07-12-13.00.html | 14:00 |
| zzxwill_ | Thank you. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-07-12-13.00.txt | 14:00 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-07-12-13.00.log.html | 14:00 |
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| sridhar_ram | #startmeeting tacker | 16:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 12 16:01:06 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sridhar_ram. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tacker' | 16:01 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Roll Call | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:01 | |
| manikanta_tadi | o/ | 16:01 |
| janki | o/ | 16:01 |
| s3wong | o/ | 16:01 |
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| sripriya | o/ | 16:01 |
| tbh | o/ | 16:01 |
| vishwanathj | o/ | 16:01 |
| sridhar_ram | Howdy folks ! | 16:01 |
| xuhaiwei_ | hi, I am new to Tacker, this is my first team meeting | 16:02 |
| tung_doan | Hi all | 16:02 |
| sridhar_ram | Here is a shout out to silent observers .. if they are interested in introducing themselves. ! | 16:02 |
| sridhar_ram | xuhaiwei_: welcome to the project! | 16:02 |
| vishwanathj | xuhaiwei_ Welcome | 16:02 |
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| xuhaiwei_ | thanks, guys | 16:02 |
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| sridhar_ram | lets start.. | 16:03 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Agenda | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:03 | |
| sridhar_ram | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Tacker | 16:03 |
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| sridhar_ram | anything else beyond the ones listed ? | 16:03 |
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| sridhar_ram | I've one last minute item related to Team mascot | 16:04 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Announcements | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:04 | |
| sridhar_ram | #info Lin Hua Cheng has stepped down tacker-horizon core team | 16:05 |
| vishwanathj | oh | 16:05 |
| sridhar_ram | Lin's work has moved away from OpenStack and he has stepped down both as horizon core and in tacker-horizon project | 16:05 |
| sridhar_ram | I'd like to thank Lin for his help so far in the project.. | 16:06 |
| sripriya | +1 | 16:06 |
| vishwanathj | +1 | 16:06 |
| manikanta_tadi | +1 | 16:06 |
| tbh | +1 | 16:06 |
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| sridhar_ram | He has introduced Tacker project to Horizon PTL for further tacker - horizon collaboration | 16:06 |
| KanagarajM_ | really appreciate Lin, thanks ! | 16:06 |
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| sridhar_ram | A shout out for Tacker is planned in Horizon project's upcoming mid-cycle | 16:07 |
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| sridhar_ram | next... | 16:07 |
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| sridhar_ram | Summit talk deadline is tomorrow.. | 16:08 |
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| sridhar_ram | Please use #Tacker to tag all the talks related to this project.. | 16:08 |
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| sridhar_ram | It was initially missing and i had the Summit team add it for us | 16:09 |
| sridhar_ram | anything else to announce from anyone here ? | 16:09 |
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| sridhar_ram | moving on.. | 16:09 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Alarm based monitoring | 16:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Alarm based monitoring (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:09 | |
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| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: please take over.. | 16:10 |
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| tung_doan | sridhar, thanks | 16:10 |
| tung_doan | Currently, I started to code. My first focus is on implementing new abstract driver, alarm-listener and modifying monitoring framework | 16:10 |
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| tung_doan | I will finish soon and hope you guys review later. | 16:10 |
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| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: cool, some code / prototyping helps to shape the spec better | 16:11 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: yeah.. i try to do it... | 16:11 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: As Sridhar mentioned in the last meeting, in case scaling is triggered by alarm-based monitoring driver, I agree that it has an overlap with scaling spec | 16:11 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: So in the view of alarm spec, can I support KanagarajM to implement scaling usecase? | 16:12 |
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| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM_: do you need tung_doan to pitch in for scaling ? | 16:13 |
| tung_doan | KanagarajM: last week, I reviewed scaling code and realized that Heat driver should add alarm monitoring policy. I would like to update this... | 16:13 |
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| tung_doan | KanagarajM: , please help me to review.. if possible | 16:13 |
| KanagarajM_ | sridhar_ram, I am fine if tung_doan really want to impl | 16:14 |
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| KanagarajM_ | tung_doan, sure. I will review. thanks for looking at it. | 16:14 |
| tung_doan | KanagarajM: thanks.. I will update ASAP | 16:14 |
| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: it is unclear to me which part of scaling you are interested.. my understanding is scaling is fully taken care in KanagarajM_ spec and code.. | 16:14 |
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| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: alarm-mon spec will stop at invoke *any* specified action.. one of the action could be scaling | 16:15 |
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| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: so, the only thing i anticipate is an integration work after both yours and KanagarajM_ work lands | 16:16 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: right.. I mean that auto-scaling will need to have monitoiring policy if we want to do it automatically | 16:16 |
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| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: not about alarm-based monitoring driver.. it is different | 16:16 |
| KanagarajM_ | sridhar_ram, yes. one change needed from scaling is, setup the metadata to support auto-scaling | 16:16 |
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| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: yes, but scaling feature is designed in a way it doesn't matter who triggers it.. manual vs alarm-mon | 16:17 |
| KanagarajM_ | tung_doan, sridhar_ram i will do it once scaling impl lands | 16:17 |
| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM_: okay... | 16:17 |
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| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM_: tung_doan: sure, you guys can definitely collaborate to get that delta taken care.. | 16:18 |
| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: KanagarajM_: thanks for the explanation.. | 16:18 |
| KanagarajM_ | sridhar_ram, sure. | 16:18 |
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| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: thanks for reviewing my spec :) | 16:18 |
| sridhar_ram | another general sticking point is .. "vnf-update" to change the threshold | 16:19 |
| sridhar_ram | this is something new for Tacker.. | 16:19 |
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| sridhar_ram | not sure, if we have thought about all the implications it brings in | 16:19 |
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| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: i think that's something we should support | 16:19 |
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| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: why ? can't we expect the VNF operator to feed to correct threshold values during instantiation ? | 16:20 |
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| sridhar_ram | *feed he | 16:20 |
| sridhar_ram | **feed the | 16:20 |
| KanagarajM_ | sridhar_ram, if we want to change any thing mentioned int VNFD after provisioning, we may need to peacefully handle VNFD first before updatign the actual VNF | 16:20 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: actually, ceilometer already support this for alarm | 16:21 |
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| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM_: we can't "touch" VNFD after it is uploaded.. FWIW, it could in a git repo | 16:21 |
| KanagarajM_ | sridhar_ram, yes. | 16:22 |
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| KanagarajM_ | sridhar_ram, i just insisted on it :) | 16:22 |
| sridhar_ram | NFV catalog evolution is a whole different topic :) | 16:22 |
| KanagarajM_ | sridhar_ram, got it :) | 16:22 |
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| sridhar_ram | back to updating alarm thresholds in the middle of a VNF life-cycle .. i'm trying to judge whether it is MUST-HAVE or a nice-to-have | 16:23 |
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| sridhar_ram | what is the team's take ? | 16:23 |
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| KanagarajM_ | tung_doan, is therosold not captured in the VNFD ? | 16:24 |
| vishwanathj | Have you see any requests for that feature lately? | 16:24 |
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| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: yes. | 16:24 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: it is nice-to-have, we can then just parameterize the template for the thresholds and then update it on the VNF | 16:25 |
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| vishwanathj | sripriya good point | 16:25 |
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| sridhar_ram | sripriya: agree, but our parameterization story stops at initiation .. and it doesn't come into picture after a VNF goes ACTIVE | 16:26 |
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| sridhar_ram | that is my I see this as a new precedence.. in fact, not even related to alarm-mon.. | 16:26 |
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| sridhar_ram | it has other implications.. to change VNF properties after it is instantiated.. | 16:26 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: yes, right now we only update the config and this will be something new to be handled as part of vnf-update | 16:26 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: agree it is a separate RFE and need not be mixed with alarm-mon feature | 16:27 |
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| sridhar_ram | exactly, that is why i don't want this to come in as part of alarm-mon, instead consciously bring it in as a tacker capability | 16:27 |
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| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: our vnf-update flow is currently restricted to invoking mgmt-driver | 16:28 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: yeah | 16:28 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: it's fine for me. | 16:29 |
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| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: I'd recommend we take the "vnf-update" portion of your spec in a follow on | 16:29 |
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| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: other than this, i'm good to go w/ the spec.. | 16:29 |
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| sripriya | tung_doan: you could capture it in future enhancements nice-to-have in your spec | 16:29 |
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| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: sripriya: thanks | 16:30 |
| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: captured few editorial comments as well | 16:30 |
| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: overall looks good ! | 16:30 |
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| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: ok.. will do | 16:30 |
| sridhar_ram | anything else on alarm-mon ? | 16:30 |
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| sridhar_ram | #topic NSD support | 16:31 |
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| sridhar_ram | dkushwaha: tbh: are you here ? | 16:31 |
| manikanta_tadi | sridhar_ram: I think you have missed VNFC Support in the agenda ? | 16:32 |
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| tbh | hi sridhar_ram , I couldn't have much updates from NSD side this week, dharmendra updated the spec regarding the ReST APi | 16:32 |
| sridhar_ram | manikanta_tadi: will get to VNFC after NSD | 16:33 |
| manikanta_tadi | sridhar_ram: Ok | 16:33 |
| sridhar_ram | tbh: thanks, np | 16:33 |
| sridhar_ram | team: here is the spec to review .. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/304667/4/specs/newton/nsd-support.rst | 16:33 |
| sridhar_ram | we can continue the discussion in the gerrit | 16:34 |
| sridhar_ram | moving on.. | 16:34 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic VNFC support | 16:34 |
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| sridhar_ram | tbh: manikanta_tadi: please take over | 16:34 |
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| manikanta_tadi | sridhar_ram, I am working with tbh to bring the spec to better shape. | 16:34 |
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| tbh | sridhar_ram, we have created the spec for VNFC support https://review.openstack.org/#/c/339798/ | 16:35 |
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| manikanta_tadi | i have one doubt in mind, Why should not we have VNFC as seperate resource in the Tacker ...rather as parameter in the TOSCA templates ? | 16:36 |
| KanagarajM | sorry team, my internet became too bad today ! | 16:36 |
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| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: noticed that, it is like weather | 16:36 |
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| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, :) | 16:36 |
| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, not sure if i missed to answer . | 16:37 |
| sridhar_ram | manikanta_tadi: it about modeling, logically VNFC maps to the runtime s/w within a Virtual Machine (VDU) | 16:37 |
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| sridhar_ram | so, VNFC is a sub-component of VNF | 16:38 |
| sridhar_ram | we don't have a tacker resource that is granular than VNF today.. | 16:38 |
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| manikanta_tadi | sridhar_ram: Ok | 16:39 |
| tbh | sridhar_ram, manikanta_tadi raised that point because we want to make use of VNFC for updating of s/w too | 16:39 |
| sridhar_ram | VNFC is something a VNFD author need to decide when "designing" a VNF.. it is not the "Operator" job to decide which VNFC should go where | 16:39 |
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| sridhar_ram | tbh: yes, we need to support "vnf-upgrade" operation in the near future | 16:40 |
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| manikanta_tadi | sridhar_ram: But then i am not sure how a vnf upgrade needs to be handled | 16:40 |
| sridhar_ram | tbh: we can still refer to the VNFC within the VNFD for the upgrade / update operation... | 16:40 |
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| tbh | sridhar_ram, if it binds to VNF, how can we try to use vnf-upgrade? | 16:41 |
| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, tbh, i was assuming that VNF mostly go with golden image concept instead | 16:41 |
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| sridhar_ram | manikanta_tadi: that could be similar to how we do "vnf-scaling <policy-name>" | 16:41 |
| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: Exactly | 16:41 |
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| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, so do we need to support software installation on top of running VNF ? | 16:42 |
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| sridhar_ram | the spec need to clearly mention the motivation behind this ask.. operators want security hardened, golden base image (like CentOS) and populate installation s/w on top of it | 16:42 |
| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: yes, that is the crux of the VNFC support.. | 16:43 |
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| manikanta_tadi | KanagarajM, sridhar_ram : We should some one wants to build the images , I think its good to have the loose coupling between the software component and underlying image? | 16:43 |
| sridhar_ram | instead of sneaking in s/w installation into cloud-init.. VNFC will explicit "model" the s/w installed on golden base image | 16:43 |
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| sridhar_ram | manikanta_tadi: yes, +1 for loose coupling | 16:44 |
| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, +1 | 16:44 |
| sripriya | i had the same concern, so this spec deals with installing VNF application on a running VNF instance with prebuilt image than having the application also tightly integrated with the VNF instance | 16:44 |
| sripriya | +1 | 16:44 |
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| sridhar_ram | sripriya: sorry, what is the concern here ? | 16:45 |
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| sridhar_ram | IMO, the main design knot to crack is the mechanism by which tacker will install, uninstall s/w on the VM it spawned | 16:46 |
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| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: i'm assuming Heat's SoftwareComponent would've solved this problem for cloud-init enabled VMs ? | 16:47 |
| manikanta_tadi | sridhar_ram: I thought Operator will be the VNFD Author , is it not true | 16:47 |
| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, yes | 16:47 |
| sridhar_ram | well, the person who pushes the button on "vnf-create" is probably the not the same person who wrote the VNFD template | 16:48 |
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| tbh | sridhar_ram, I am here not totally depending on the SoftwareComponent of heat | 16:49 |
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| sridhar_ram | Here is my key take away for the VNFC effort (a) we need TOSCA modeling for the s/w running in "blank" VMs - this is not possible today and we need this support (b) once specified in the VNFD model, tacker server need to get the bits into those blank VMs spawnd and invoke the install sequence .. that is the scope of this effort .. Make sense ? Did i miss | 16:50 |
| sridhar_ram | anything ? | 16:50 |
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| KanagarajM_ | sridhar_ram, why blank VM ? | 16:51 |
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| manikanta_tadi | sridhar_ram : I think,we should consider adding vnf component upgrade in this spec ? | 16:52 |
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| sridhar_ram | tbh: take a look at heat SoftwareComponent.. it is works for the above funtionalty we shd make use of it - to save effort + tosca-parser / heat-translator also has SoftwarreComponent support (AFAIK) | 16:52 |
| tbh | sridhar_ram, for invoking, can we provide multiple options to the user? | 16:52 |
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| sridhar_ram | manikanta_tadi: no, differ to the next follow-on | 16:52 |
| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM_: by blank VM i meant VM with just the base OS | 16:53 |
| tbh | sridhar_ram, in the spec we mentioned about using SSH instead of SoftwareComponent | 16:53 |
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| sridhar_ram | tbh: you can definitely list diff options in the spec.. | 16:53 |
| sridhar_ram | tbh: .. we can discuss it | 16:54 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: tbh: i thought the spec mentioned about limited capability of Sofware Component | 16:54 |
| vishwanathj | Is SoftwareComponent support available for a VM that is already up and running? | 16:54 |
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| tbh | sripriya, yes I am not sure, does all types of VDUs can support cloud-init itself which SoftwareComponent is using I guess | 16:55 |
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| tbh | vishwanathj, am not sure it will support | 16:56 |
| sridhar_ram | tbh: ssh might be an option.. i'd suggest you to make some reasonable assumptions.. like the base VMs need to be cloud-init enabled.. | 16:56 |
| sripriya | tbh: it can only depend on the image itself if it has cloud-init capability, i dont think we should be based off that dependency | 16:56 |
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| sridhar_ram | sripriya: is it unreasonable in this day & age to insist cloud-init ? | 16:57 |
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| sripriya | sridhar_ram: does openwrt support this? | 16:57 |
| sridhar_ram | ssh has many downsides as well, the primary being credential storage | 16:57 |
| sridhar_ram | openwrt is different story.. here we are talking about an horizontal capability | 16:58 |
| sridhar_ram | Folks .. we are out of time for today | 16:58 |
| sridhar_ram | let's continue this next week.. | 16:58 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: ack | 16:58 |
| sridhar_ram | tbh: please capture different install options in the spec.. | 16:59 |
| tbh | sridhar_ram, thanks for the inputs | 16:59 |
| sridhar_ram | tbh: we can zoom in on 1 or more based on further discussion | 16:59 |
| sridhar_ram | good discussion | 16:59 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Open Discussion | 16:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:59 | |
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| sridhar_ram | sorry no time this week :) | 16:59 |
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| sridhar_ram | bye everyone... | 16:59 |
| s3wong | bye | 17:00 |
| sridhar_ram | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:00 | |
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| manikanta_tadi | Thanks All..Bye ! | 17:00 |
| tung_doan | bye | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 12 17:00:02 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-07-12-16.01.html | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-07-12-16.01.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-07-12-16.01.log.html | 17:00 |
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| mmedvede | #startmeeting third-party | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 12 17:00:20 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mmedvede. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 17:00 |
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| mmedvede | hi everyone, time for third-party WG meeting | 17:00 |
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| ja3 | ye haw | 17:00 |
| mmedvede | quick announcement | 17:00 |
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| mmedvede | #topic Announcements | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:01 | |
| mmedvede | In case anyone is tracking master branch of nodepool, it is now time to pin it | 17:01 |
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| mmedvede | (thanks to asselin__ for sending email to ML) | 17:02 |
| mmedvede | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/293112/ | 17:02 |
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| mmedvede | #topic Action items from last meeting | 17:03 |
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| mmedvede | #topic cmmedvede to add jenkins version cap in puppet-jenkins | 17:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "cmmedvede to add jenkins version cap in puppet-jenkins (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:04 | |
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| mmedvede | right after meeting I noticed there was a patch to puppet-jenkins to work around jenkins new security feature | 17:05 |
| mmedvede | #link workaround for Jenkins' SECURITY-170 https://review.openstack.org/#q,I737a6e46b05ec2c02a4a38c94d51b0f6f1bb665e,n,z | 17:05 |
| mmedvede | so there is no need to cap jenkins version, given the patch above would merge | 17:05 |
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| mmedvede | reminder - the new security feature in jenkins would prevent you from sending arbitrary non-whitelisted parameters to the job | 17:06 |
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| mmedvede | #topic Open Discussion | 17:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:07 | |
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| ja3 | [crickets] | 17:08 |
| mmedvede | any topic for discussion? | 17:08 |
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| mmedvede | I wonder who else is here :) | 17:08 |
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| ja3 | nobody but us chickens | 17:09 |
| mmedvede | show yourselves | 17:09 |
| mmedvede | hehe | 17:09 |
| ja3 | hey hey, no harry potter spells there | 17:09 |
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| mmedvede | ja3: do you have anything to discuss, or lets make it under short today? | 17:10 |
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| ja3 | no topics heya | 17:10 |
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| mmedvede | *wanted to say under 10 minutes, but it is not happening now :) | 17:10 |
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| mmedvede | ja3: thanks. I'll keep the meeting open for a bit, in case someone shows up | 17:10 |
| ja3 | well at least it will be amusing, read (a) later (b) quickly (c) out of context | 17:11 |
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| mmedvede | so seems none around. thanks ja3 for joining | 17:16 |
| mmedvede | #endmeeting | 17:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:16 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 12 17:16:25 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:16 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-07-12-17.00.html | 17:16 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-07-12-17.00.txt | 17:16 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-07-12-17.00.log.html | 17:16 |
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| breton | time? | 18:00 |
| henrynash | about 7pm, guv | 18:00 |
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| breton | time! | 18:00 |
| stevemar | o/ | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | o/ | 18:00 |
| stevemar | meeting time! | 18:00 |
| stevemar | get in here! ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, crinkle, claudiub, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, gagehugo, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, jaugustine, joesavak, jorge_munoz, knikolla, lbragstad, MaxPC, morgan, nkinder, notmorgan, raildo, rodrigods, rderose, roxanaghe, samleon, samueldmq, shaleh, stevemar, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong, xek | 18:00 |
| amakarov | o/ | 18:00 |
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| roxanaghe | o/ | 18:00 |
| browne | o/ | 18:00 |
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| gagehugo | o/ | 18:01 |
| raildo | o/ | 18:01 |
| stevemar | #startmeeting keystone | 18:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 12 18:01:09 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is stevemar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:01 |
| jaugustine | o/ | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:01 |
| knikolla | o/ | 18:01 |
| stevemar | of course they are testing the fire alarm now... | 18:01 |
| nk2527 | howdy | 18:01 |
| bknudson_ | hi | 18:01 |
| dstanek | o/ | 18:01 |
| henrynash | stevemar: pardon? can;t hear you | 18:01 |
| rderose_ | o/ | 18:01 |
| stevemar | \o/ | 18:01 |
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| samueldmq | hey folks o/ | 18:01 |
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| gagehugo | hi | 18:02 |
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| stevemar | silenced it | 18:02 |
| stevemar | okay, let's go! | 18:02 |
| lamt | hello | 18:02 |
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| stevemar | lamt: hey! | 18:02 |
| stevemar | agenda link: Newton-2 is being cut this week | 18:02 |
| stevemar | err | 18:02 |
| stevemar | agenda link: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting | 18:02 |
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| stevemar | copy paste fail | 18:02 |
| gyee | \o | 18:02 |
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| stevemar | fun and full meeting today! | 18:03 |
| stevemar | so many topics | 18:03 |
| stevemar | #topic Newton-2 is being cut this week | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Newton-2 is being cut this week (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:03 | |
| stevemar | this is just an update | 18:03 |
| stevemar | friday we will propose our newton-2 driver | 18:03 |
| stevemar | no serious bugs so far | 18:03 |
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| stevemar | i bumped the following blueprints to newton-3: I have bumped the following blueprints: pci-dss, microversions, schema-validation, project-tree-deletion | 18:04 |
| stevemar | The credentials-encryption blueprint is the only one left targeted for newton-2: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/317169/ | 18:04 |
| stevemar | and it could use some eyes... dolphm ^ nonameentername ^ | 18:04 |
| nisha_ | o/ | 18:04 |
| stevemar | there were no new specs that landed last week (henrynash's is still pending) | 18:05 |
| stevemar | any questions / comments? | 18:05 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: hmt spec ? | 18:05 |
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| stevemar | samueldmq: yes, that is henrynash's that i was referring to | 18:06 |
| samueldmq | gotcha | 18:06 |
| stevemar | but it's not approved, we agreed to wait til midcycle to discuss | 18:06 |
| henrynash | stevemarL indeed | 18:06 |
| stevemar | oh breton had a spec approved, can you create a blueprint for it and target newton-3? | 18:06 |
| * samueldmq nods | 18:06 | |
| breton | stevemar: yep | 18:07 |
| stevemar | breton: thank you! | 18:07 |
| stevemar | next topic ? | 18:07 |
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| stevemar | #topic keystone mascot/logo | 18:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "keystone mascot/logo (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:08 | |
| lbragstad | i think dstanek had a suggestion for our mascot... | 18:08 |
| stevemar | this one is bound to be fun | 18:08 |
| stevemar | there is a mailing list topic about it: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-July/099046.html | 18:08 |
| nisha_ | :D | 18:08 |
| stevemar | The foundation wants consistent logos from each openstack project/service, they're taking suggestion based on things in the natural world: an animal, fish, plant, or natural feature such as a mountain or waterfall. A professional illustrator will be creating them for all projects | 18:08 |
| henrynash | i added a few suggestions :-) | 18:08 |
| stevemar | i think it's a great idea | 18:09 |
| rderose_ | ++ | 18:09 |
| stevemar | Deadline is July 27th | 18:09 |
| stevemar | Info: http://www.openstack.org/project-mascots | 18:09 |
| stevemar | Suggestions: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-mascot | 18:09 |
| raildo | #link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOdsuNr2T-o for more informations | 18:09 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: i'm pretty sure it wouldn't be allowed :-) | 18:09 |
| stevemar | awww, sorry to whoever recommended fluffy, only *real* things are allowed | 18:09 |
| stevemar | so no unicorns, dragons, 3 headed dogs, etc :) | 18:10 |
| gyee | pikachu? | 18:10 |
| amakarov | stevemar: A big fat burocrat sitting behind his desk! | 18:10 |
| dstanek | what about a wombat? | 18:10 |
| stevemar | Can my mascot be an imaginary animal/feature? | 18:10 |
| stevemar | No. (Dragons, unicorns, centaurs, etc., are excluded.) | 18:10 |
| stevemar | amakarov: are you calling me that or is that a logo suggestion? :] | 18:11 |
| bknudson_ | Do wombats actually exist? | 18:11 |
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| dstanek | we nicknamed a project wombat because it looks cool, but can also stand for 'waste of money brains and time' - management didn't know the second part | 18:11 |
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| amakarov | stevemar: Are you sitting behind a buro? ;) | 18:11 |
| lbragstad | dstanek lol | 18:11 |
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| dstanek | unicorns exist | 18:12 |
| samueldmq | yeah, there are many in Brazil | 18:12 |
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| gyee | dstanek, whatever you are smoking, I want some of that | 18:12 |
| dstanek | next topic! | 18:12 |
| lbragstad | what about the loch ness monster | 18:12 |
| stevemar | oh i like the turtle idea | 18:12 |
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| dstanek | ....or i will waste all your times | 18:12 |
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| stevemar | anyway, please add +1's or i'll send out a survey soon | 18:13 |
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| amakarov | stevemar: http://www.stihi.ru/pics/2015/10/23/5845.jpg | 18:13 |
| stevemar | thats me! | 18:13 |
| stevemar | hehe | 18:13 |
| samueldmq | lol | 18:14 |
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| stevemar | alright, so please add suggestions to the etherpad | 18:14 |
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| stevemar | i'll send out a poll EOW to anyone who has had a patch land this release or last | 18:14 |
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| notmorgan | I hear pokemon are real gyee,you just need an app on your phone to see them. | 18:14 |
| stevemar | if i can figure that out :P | 18:15 |
| dstanek | trolls under a bridge | 18:15 |
| stevemar | next topic, should be quick | 18:15 |
| breton | oh these non-tech topics | 18:15 |
| notmorgan | may i recommend a "keystone" animal | 18:15 |
| gyee | notmorgan, I know! :-) | 18:15 |
| stevemar | breton: they get more participation :P | 18:15 |
| notmorgan | look it up :) | 18:15 |
| stevemar | #topic Keystone API sprint | 18:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Keystone API sprint (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:15 | |
| stevemar | it's tomorrow! | 18:15 |
| amakarov | notmorgan: squeezed Scrappy from Ice Age? ;) | 18:16 |
| stevemar | details here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-api-sprint | 18:16 |
| samueldmq | notmorgan: hmm, looks like there is something called "keystone species" | 18:16 |
| samueldmq | :) | 18:16 |
| stevemar | i'll add a google hangout link to the etherpad | 18:16 |
| samueldmq | oops, topic changed, sorry | 18:16 |
| notmorgan | samueldmq: yes. | 18:16 |
| stevemar | you can see the APIs are being pulled from the keystone repo now | 18:16 |
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| stevemar | let's remove them from the keystone-specs repo, and have a single source of truth | 18:17 |
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| samueldmq | stevemar: ++ | 18:18 |
| stevemar | looking forward to it | 18:18 |
| samueldmq | stevemar: a good thing is that the code merges with the API change | 18:18 |
| stevemar | #topic Midcycle sprint agenda | 18:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Midcycle sprint agenda (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:18 | |
| stevemar | samueldmq: yep | 18:18 |
| samueldmq | as separate from the spec, so the code *always* match the API docs | 18:18 |
| stevemar | midcycle is coming up: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-newton-midcycle | 18:18 |
| stevemar | keep the etherpad for the agenda, use the wiki to find information about the location and such | 18:19 |
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| stevemar | it'll be fun to see everyone soon! | 18:19 |
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| stevemar | i'll cancel next weeks meeting since we'll be traveling | 18:19 |
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| stevemar | no questions, good, got through all this in 20 minutes! | 18:20 |
| stevemar | #topic microversions | 18:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "microversions (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:20 | |
| stevemar | henrynash: ^ | 18:20 |
| henrynash | ok right | 18:20 |
| stevemar | breton: you have your wish :) | 18:20 |
| henrynash | so we merged a spec for this…but questions is…should we do it anyway….or only if we have a chnage to the API that needs it? | 18:21 |
| samueldmq | I think we should start with a real use for it | 18:21 |
| henrynash | (however, you *could* argue that any change to the API should be microversioned, even teh addtion of a new attribute) | 18:21 |
| samueldmq | otherwise seems unnecessary ? | 18:22 |
| henrynash | like rderose’s password_valid_to attribute | 18:22 |
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| rderose_ | * password_expires_at :) | 18:22 |
| rodrigods | should be used only if it is impossible to keep API compatbility without it | 18:22 |
| dstanek | i don' | 18:22 |
| henrynash | oops, sorry | 18:22 |
| breton | stevemar: huh? | 18:22 |
| dstanek | t think adding should be microversioned | 18:22 |
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| dstanek | i don't think it would be bad to start supporting it now. that way we get it in and get some experience before we're under the gun | 18:23 |
| jamielennox | so we've always had the incrementing API version, just noone really uses it | 18:23 |
| stevemar | breton: we're finally on a technical topic :) | 18:23 |
| knikolla | dstanek: ++ | 18:23 |
| samueldmq | when we add we create a new version anyways (keystone 3.6, 3.7 and so on) | 18:23 |
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| henrynash | jamielennox: yep…and there is no way of asking for an API for any other version that the current one | 18:23 |
| topol | o/ catching up | 18:24 |
| jamielennox | i'm not sure anyone would use the microversions either unless we had a reason people had to for different behaviour | 18:24 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: jamielennox but generally changes that add things are backward compat | 18:24 |
| jamielennox | henrynash: well it means that every new addition to the API has been optional, the old behaviour is just not adding the new options | 18:24 |
| samueldmq | so new arguments are optional making it still possible to use an old version... | 18:24 |
| gyee | I don't think OCLI have a generic way to facilitate microversion right now | 18:25 |
| bknudson_ | is the change to add password_expires_at backwards compatible? If I start sending that to an old keystone it's not going to work as expected. | 18:25 |
| stevemar | gyee: true | 18:25 |
| jamielennox | bknudson_: that could be argued for every API change > 3.0 | 18:25 |
| gyee | there will be a whole bunch of changes, including the way we load the plugins | 18:26 |
| henrynash | samueldmq: … and a on old client would get slight different things back if they spoke to an old and a new server at the moment | 18:26 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: speaking to 2 different versions of keystone ? | 18:27 |
| samueldmq | the same client? that seems odd | 18:27 |
| dstanek | samueldmq: i do it all the time | 18:27 |
| bknudson_ | for example is_domain on projects... that would break using old keystone. | 18:27 |
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| henrynash | bknduson:_: yep | 18:27 |
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| samueldmq | hmm, so other projects can't decide whether is_domain is available or not ... e.g if version is 3.6 then is_domain exists | 18:28 |
| henrynash | smaueldmq: imagine access differnet pubcl cloud kestones with agiven client, how would you know what you would get | 18:28 |
| samueldmq | but there is no way to differentiate things inside 3.x | 18:28 |
| bknudson_ | you can get the version from keystone. | 18:28 |
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| rderose_ | bknudson: password_expires_at is only returned in the response object | 18:28 |
| rderose_ | bknudson: so response now has the new attribute, but not allowed in the request | 18:28 |
| samueldmq | bkeller`: you're correct | 18:28 |
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| stevemar | i don't think we've thought about how to fully use microversions end to end | 18:29 |
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| stevemar | osc doesn't have support for it :( | 18:29 |
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| stevemar | so how are keystone users going to take advantage of microversions | 18:29 |
| henrynash | stvevemar: not generic support, no | 18:29 |
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| jamielennox | i realy don't think it's something that should ever be exposed to users via OSC | 18:30 |
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| dstanek | i would really like to start baking in the support first and before we expose things to the end user. | 18:30 |
| jamielennox | but i'm pretty sure i lost that | 18:30 |
| dstanek | lots of details need to be looked at...how do have support different validation for different versions...etc | 18:30 |
| henrynash | dstanek: that’s kind of my feeling….. | 18:30 |
| samueldmq | dstanek: ++ | 18:30 |
| stevemar | yep, thats what i was referring to | 18:31 |
| samueldmq | otherwise we endup as driver versioning | 18:31 |
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| bknudson_ | doesn't sound like we have an immediate need for microversions so let's not add the complexity | 18:31 |
| samueldmq | (which we are droping support now) | 18:31 |
| stevemar | agreed | 18:31 |
| stevemar | bknudson_: that somewhat brings up the next topic | 18:32 |
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| rderose_ | bknudson_++ | 18:32 |
| bknudson_ | the next person to propose a backwards-incompatible change is going to have technical debt to deal with | 18:32 |
| gyee | ++ | 18:32 |
| henrynash | ok, so general feelin is..whait till we nned it | 18:32 |
| bknudson_ | and hopefully we can get them to pay down the debt rather than just adding more. | 18:32 |
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| stevemar | henrynash: cue the topic change? | 18:32 |
| henrynash | yep | 18:32 |
| dstanek | fwict keystone have never been backward compatible between releases | 18:32 |
| jamielennox | yep, i don't think we need it yet | 18:32 |
| samueldmq | ++ | 18:33 |
| stevemar | #topic Booleans or key-only query attributes in our Identity spec | 18:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Booleans or key-only query attributes in our Identity spec (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:33 | |
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| dstanek | that's a little scarry...(to wait)...but alright | 18:33 |
| notmorgan | dstanek: fwiw, people have run keystone with older openstacks usually if they upgrade one component | 18:33 |
| notmorgan | vs. all | 18:33 |
| henrynash | ok, query attributes as booleans | 18:33 |
| notmorgan | we are mostly compatible in most cases. | 18:34 |
| henrynash | so we have mixture in our API | 18:34 |
| bknudson_ | great, now we're going to find out we need microversion. | 18:34 |
| henrynash | some are key-only, some are booleans (where we expect ‘0’ for flase) | 18:34 |
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| rodrigods | booleans are the "more" correct | 18:35 |
| henrynash | the api guidlines group are discussing this, but no conclusion | 18:35 |
| rodrigods | at least, for the API spec | 18:35 |
| jamielennox | please go booleans | 18:35 |
| topol | please keep interoperability in mind as we discuss things like microversions, etc | 18:35 |
| gyee | where's the API working group when we need them? | 18:35 |
| jamielennox | i really dislike the raw flag, particularly if it then doesn't check like ?nocatalog=0 for false | 18:35 |
| gyee | this is API consistency matter | 18:35 |
| henrynash | if the API working have a leaning, it appears to be for booleans rather than key-only | 18:35 |
| rodrigods | gyee, yes... but we started using key-only | 18:35 |
| notmorgan | as long as you don't change that "0" works if it works today | 18:36 |
| gyee | I mean guidelines should come from API working group | 18:36 |
| notmorgan | again, don't break backwards compatibility | 18:36 |
| rodrigods | and then realised they are not so great | 18:36 |
| gyee | I don't care what it is so as long as it is consistent for ALL APIs | 18:36 |
| notmorgan | you can prefer booleans | 18:36 |
| notmorgan | ut if 0 works today, maintain it | 18:36 |
| rderose_ | gyee++ | 18:36 |
| bknudson_ | I'd prefer no booleans but instead essentially enums | 18:36 |
| bknudson_ | e.g. ?catalog=none | 18:36 |
| notmorgan | bknudson_: i like that the best. | 18:37 |
| dstanek | when we say boolean we are talking 'false' instead of 0? | 18:37 |
| rodrigods | bknudson_, ++ not "booleans" but key/value pair | 18:37 |
| notmorgan | but again, if we support it today, don't break it. | 18:37 |
| stevemar | what does the API working group recommend? | 18:37 |
| notmorgan | also do not make a config flag that changes behavior. | 18:37 |
| henrynash | the challenge for booleans is that there isn’t really a standard for what should match true/false as aI said we chsoe ‘0’ for false and anyting eles mans true (including myvalue=’false’) | 18:37 |
| rodrigods | key-only generates weirdness like: https://github.com/openstack/python-keystoneclient/blob/master/keystoneclient/base.py#L357-L364 | 18:37 |
| lbragstad | there also isn't a python library to convert key/value query strings, is there? | 18:38 |
| rodrigods | henrynash, that challenge was introduced by key-only | 18:38 |
| bknudson_ | requests or our crappy library not supporting key-only is a poor argument. | 18:38 |
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| dstanek | lbragstad: sure is | 18:38 |
| rodrigods | lbragstad, sure | 18:38 |
| rodrigods | key-only doesn't | 18:38 |
| lbragstad | ah - gotcha | 18:38 |
| notmorgan | also shouldn't ?nocatalog | 18:38 |
| notmorgan | just work | 18:38 |
| notmorgan | even without a value? | 18:38 |
| gyee | nocatalog works | 18:39 |
| raildo | notmorgan, I believe so | 18:39 |
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| notmorgan | so, key-only seems to be api breaking. fwiw | 18:39 |
| gyee | while we are at it, should names be case-sensitive? :-) | 18:40 |
| samleon | ?include_names, without value still works, what's confusing is ?include_names=false, it returns true | 18:40 |
| henrynash | dolphm: you here - I know you have some string feelings here…? | 18:40 |
| lbragstad | henrynash dolphm is on vacation today i believe | 18:40 |
| rodrigods | accepting all kind of "positive" values with key-only was the first mistake | 18:40 |
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| notmorgan | it is easy to convert values to booleans fwiw | 18:40 |
| rodrigods | but now we need to be backwards compatible | 18:40 |
| lbragstad | so can we deprecate the use of key-only? | 18:41 |
| jamielennox | >>> parse.parse_qs('test=1&nocatalog') | 18:41 |
| jamielennox | {'test': ['1']} | 18:41 |
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| notmorgan | {'false', False, 0, "0", None}[key.tolower()] | 18:41 |
| bknudson_ | we can introduce a microversion to change the arguments | 18:41 |
| henrynash | lbragstad: with a microversion :-) | 18:41 |
| lbragstad | and introduce key/value instead? | 18:41 |
| notmorgan | or well | 18:41 |
| rodrigods | jamielennox, ++ | 18:41 |
| jamielennox | so it's not just a requests/client problem | 18:41 |
| jamielennox | it means we have to scan the string manually | 18:41 |
| notmorgan | or whatever. but you can check the string | 18:42 |
| notmorgan | basically make it a set. | 18:42 |
| notmorgan | and lower it. | 18:42 |
| henrynash | notmorgan: which is how I think I tried to write it orgionally way back when we first added passing filter queries down to SQL…but go shot down | 18:42 |
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| henrynash | notmorgan: what abour foreign languages? do we have support Non, Neit etc.? | 18:43 |
| gyee | hahah, nice one | 18:43 |
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| rodrigods | lol | 18:43 |
| notmorgan | henrynash: we only support documented python falses. | 18:43 |
| rodrigods | não :) | 18:43 |
| stevemar | can we not just document how it'll work if there's a key-only and deal with the technical debt | 18:43 |
| gyee | nocatalog=是 | 18:43 |
| notmorgan | it is all we can expect to support. | 18:44 |
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| rodrigods | stevemar, makes sense | 18:44 |
| notmorgan | but in either case, this is api incompatible change | 18:44 |
| notmorgan | but i'm tired of harping on this point | 18:44 |
| henrynash | notmorgan: I agree with you (but not everyone did at the time) | 18:44 |
| amakarov | gyee: i18n for keys too! ftw )) | 18:44 |
| bknudson_ | are there proposals for new query arguments? | 18:44 |
| bknudson_ | how about document what should be done for new ones? | 18:45 |
| notmorgan | going forward and new query argts we can be much more strict | 18:45 |
| notmorgan | and we should be | 18:45 |
| jamielennox | so we can't break backwards compat, future API should all use booleans | 18:45 |
| notmorgan | jamielennox: yes. | 18:45 |
| gyee | let me ask again, what is OpenStack API working group for? | 18:45 |
| notmorgan | and we should be very explicit goring forward and very strict | 18:45 |
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| dstanek | jamielennox: what is the value of a boolean? 0/1, 'false'/'true'? | 18:45 |
| rodrigods | dstanek, 0/1 | 18:45 |
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| bknudson_ | how about "maybe"? | 18:46 |
| rodrigods | haha | 18:46 |
| dstanek | 'roll dice' | 18:46 |
| notmorgan | bknudson_: "sortof" | 18:46 |
| jamielennox | dstanek: as dfeined by: https://github.com/openstack/oslo.utils/blob/master/oslo_utils/strutils.py#L111 | 18:46 |
| notmorgan | bknudson_: ?nocatalog=sortof | 18:46 |
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| bknudson_ | I'd be worried about using the library since they change the lib to add more and our API changes. | 18:47 |
| amakarov | shreddinger_arg=0/1 | 18:47 |
| jamielennox | dstanek: not my favourite way to do it, but it's predefined | 18:47 |
| notmorgan | true/false imo is the boolean i'd support | 18:47 |
| jamielennox | 1/0 as what we would recomment | 18:47 |
| jamielennox | recommend | 18:47 |
| dstanek | jamielennox: is anything else false? | 18:47 |
| notmorgan | but 1/0 is also fine. | 18:47 |
| bknudson_ | we should define what happens if the value is not one that's expected | 18:47 |
| bknudson_ | e.g., maybe 400 | 18:47 |
| dstanek | 1/0 would be my preference....certainly for the docs even if we support other values | 18:47 |
| notmorgan | i'd look at http spec/jaascript/rfcs for general consistency | 18:48 |
| dstanek | bknudson_: ++ | 18:48 |
| jamielennox | dstanek: you can strict=True | 18:48 |
| henrynash | ok, so proposal is: 1) document how it works today (since I don’t think we really do that), and s2) omehow when you introce a new boolean define how it should work…which would be different exits booleans (yuk) | 18:48 |
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| amakarov | bknudson_: why not 'true/yes' is TRUE, and FALSE - everything else? | 18:48 |
| dstanek | amakarov: i'd rather have a strict false value | 18:49 |
| bknudson_ | OpenStack seems to be moving towards being less lenient. | 18:49 |
| lbragstad | dstanek ++ | 18:49 |
| notmorgan | be strict / explicit | 18:49 |
| notmorgan | other web services tend to not be "true" or "yes" | 18:49 |
| rodrigods | http://webmasters.stackexchange.com/questions/78512/how-to-fail-in-case-of-incorrect-uri-parameter | 18:49 |
| notmorgan | they tend to expect a single "true" value | 18:49 |
| notmorgan | if boolean | 18:49 |
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| stevemar | notmorgan: what if unspecified? | 18:49 |
| dstanek | otherwise we'll get in a situation where we want 'yes', 'no' or 'it depends' and we'll be talking about backward compatibility again | 18:49 |
| notmorgan | stevemar: most apps throwout/ignore invalid params unless they are filters | 18:50 |
| notmorgan | iirc | 18:50 |
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| rodrigods | fallback to default values | 18:50 |
| jamielennox | i don't like to ignore things you don't understand, always better to error | 18:50 |
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| stevemar | got a point | 18:51 |
| bknudson_ | we'll definitely need microversions if we don't ignore unexpected inputs | 18:51 |
| amakarov | rodrigods: the question I see, what if client passes "param=yep" and expects it treated as true | 18:51 |
| stevemar | yeah, can't start tossing up errors | 18:51 |
| notmorgan | amakarov: just be clear going forward what is expected | 18:52 |
| amakarov | I'm agree about ignoring | 18:52 |
| rodrigods | notmorgan, ++ | 18:52 |
| notmorgan | amakarov: doesn't matter what the client does after that | 18:52 |
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| stevemar | henrynash: can you recap again, but include what happens if value is not present :) | 18:52 |
| notmorgan | amakarov: if it doesn't conform ... it isn't valid | 18:52 |
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| samleon | stevemar, if value not there, it will be true | 18:53 |
| henrynash | stevemar: so in today’s spec we have two different types of “booleans”…we weither say they are key-only (and no value is epcted) or “real” boolean | 18:53 |
| amakarov | notmorgan: yes, the concern is: should we ignore the parameter of throw an error | 18:53 |
| rodrigods | should *always* be key/value | 18:53 |
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| gyee | samleon, I wish that how we count votes in election day :-) | 18:53 |
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| rodrigods | imo | 18:54 |
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| notmorgan | amakarov: specify for new params the response. | 18:54 |
| henrynash | if keyonly, then if it;s in there we say it is true, irrespective of value (if one was supplied0 | 18:54 |
| samleon | gyee++ | 18:54 |
| dstanek | amakarov: i would ingore unknows params, but 400 on know params with invalid values | 18:54 |
| henrynash | if boolean, if value is ‘0’ it is false, anything else is true | 18:54 |
| stevemar | dstanek: +++++ | 18:54 |
| amakarov | notmorgan, dstanek: why? :) | 18:54 |
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| dstanek | amakarov: why which part? | 18:54 |
| notmorgan | amakarov: because it's the common behavior | 18:54 |
| notmorgan | go to any webapp | 18:55 |
| notmorgan | pass random query args | 18:55 |
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| dstanek | notmorgan: ++ | 18:55 |
| notmorgan | they are thrownout/mostly ignored | 18:55 |
| amakarov | dstanek: I mean: do we have some measurables to say: yes - this approach is true | 18:55 |
| stevemar | so let's live with the existing ones and document the behaviour that we want (ugh) | 18:55 |
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| henrynash | so one challenge is that if we intrioduce the “new improved boolean”, that operates different to the old boolenas, it might be pretty confusing | 18:55 |
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| stevemar | if we go forward with microversions, this'll be item #1 to fix :P | 18:55 |
| bknudson_ | we could add a microversion and bring the existing behavior up to spec. | 18:55 |
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| bknudson_ | oops, behaviour | 18:55 |
| dstanek | amakarov: we will define what values are acceptable for true/false | 18:55 |
| notmorgan | bknudson_: ++ | 18:56 |
| stevemar | bknudson_: thanks for speaking canadian | 18:56 |
| anteaya | eh? | 18:56 |
| gyee | nice one | 18:56 |
| stevemar | jamielennox: you have 3 minutes | 18:56 |
| henrynash | stevemar: “document what we want”….you mean what we supprot today? | 18:56 |
| jamielennox | oh, gah | 18:56 |
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| stevemar | henrynash: both, what we support today vs what we just agreed upon | 18:57 |
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| jamielennox | So quickly i proposed https://review.openstack.org/#/c/339356/ | 18:57 |
| stevemar | #topic Require auth_context middleware | 18:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Require auth_context middleware (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:57 | |
| stevemar | i don't see the issue with depending on auth_context | 18:57 |
| jamielennox | it would make auth_context required in the pipeline and remove the last of the places where keystone again validates a token | 18:57 |
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| gyee | jamielennox, ++ | 18:58 |
| jamielennox | looking around at how auth_context is used i think you would find a bunch of edge cases that fail if you don't have auth_context enabled today | 18:58 |
| topol | jamielennox waiting for the downside | 18:58 |
| gyee | does auth_context always need a token? | 18:58 |
| gyee | it shouldn't | 18:58 |
| stevemar | notmorgan: dolphm y'all are the history buffs here, any thoyghts? | 18:58 |
| stevemar | or even thoughts | 18:59 |
| jamielennox | so mostly it's an awareness thing, i want everone to know it's happening and a chance to stop it if you know anywhere we will have problems | 18:59 |
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| amakarov | jamielennox: according to the last phrase the solution looks like a workaround... | 18:59 |
| bknudson_ | I think you're saying that auth_context is actually required now? | 18:59 |
| henrynash | I just raised the concern to make sure we’re not going to break any deployments | 18:59 |
| gyee | jamielennox, make sure token is NOT required | 18:59 |
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| jamielennox | gyee: it would be enforced in @protected | 18:59 |
| gyee | that's good | 18:59 |
| jamielennox | so it will only be required in places where you are already going to do a policy check | 18:59 |
| stevemar | let's just to -keystone to continue | 19:00 |
| stevemar | #endmeeting | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 12 19:00:07 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-07-12-18.01.html | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-07-12-18.01.txt | 19:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-07-12-18.01.log.html | 19:00 |
| notmorgan | as long as it all continue to work. | 19:00 |
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| fungi | infra team, ensemble! | 19:00 |
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| fungi | today's topics courtesy of clarkb, mtreinish, fungi, jeblair, anteaya, heidijoy, wznoinsk, pleia2 | 19:00 |
| clarkb | does that mean we sing? | 19:00 |
| anteaya | I am here | 19:00 |
| anteaya | ha ha ha | 19:00 |
| pleia2 | o/ | 19:00 |
| anteaya | clarkb: what do you want to sing? | 19:00 |
| rcarrillocruz | o/ | 19:00 |
| fungi | clarkb: clearly you should follow up to the barcelona singing thread on the ml | 19:00 |
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| notmorgan | fungi: ooh can i sleep instead then :P since i'm not on the list. | 19:01 |
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| clarkb | anteaya: whatever an ensemble sings | 19:01 |
| pabelanger | beep boop | 19:01 |
| anteaya | ha ha ha | 19:01 |
| Zara | o/ | 19:01 |
| notmorgan | pabelanger: robot? | 19:01 |
| fungi | the infra core dodecatet ensemble? | 19:01 |
| ianw | o/ | 19:01 |
| pabelanger | waiting for fungi to setup the game and reference voltron | 19:01 |
| SotK | o/ | 19:01 |
| jeblair | notmorgan: yeah, but i am, and i'm going to say your name ;) | 19:01 |
| pabelanger | step-up* | 19:01 |
| notmorgan | jeblair: crud. | 19:01 |
| bkero | o/ | 19:01 |
| notmorgan | jeblair: i guess sleeping is right out | 19:02 |
| notmorgan | then | 19:02 |
| zaro | o/ | 19:02 |
| jesusaur | o/ | 19:02 |
| fungi | people seem to be around and paying attention already. also very full agenda (i doubt we'll get to it all but i'll try) so guess we can get started | 19:02 |
| fungi | #startmeeting infra | 19:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 12 19:02:40 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:02 |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:02 |
| fungi | #topic Announcements | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| fungi | #info Reminder: late-cycle joint Infra/QA get together to be held September 19-21 (CW38) in at SAP offices in Walldorf, DE | 19:03 |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Sprints/QAInfraNewtonSprint | 19:03 |
| fungi | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| zaro | Gerrit hackathon is on same week! | 19:03 |
| fungi | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-07-05-19.02.html | 19:03 |
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| fungi | there were "(none)" | 19:03 |
| clarkb | zaro: at the asme place, see you there? :) | 19:03 |
| fungi | #topic Specs approval | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| zaro | i bee there! | 19:03 |
| fungi | #topic PROPOSED: Spec for testing Newton on Xenial transition (clarkb) | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PROPOSED: Spec for testing Newton on Xenial transition (clarkb) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/337905 | 19:03 |
| fungi | #info Council voting is open on "Spec for testing Newton on Xenial transition" until 19:00 UTC, Thursday, July 14 | 19:04 |
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| fungi | note that's being proposed as a priority spec | 19:04 |
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| fungi | anything we need to say about it this week clarkb? | 19:04 |
| fungi | other than it's basically already underway | 19:04 |
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| clarkb | just that there is also a zuul and nodepool change proposed that I should update the topics on and I am doing a ton of testing for tox things across the projects that run python-jobs in zuul | 19:04 |
| fungi | cool | 19:05 |
| clarkb | and other claenup stuff is shaking out of that like empty repos and repos missing tox.ini and so on | 19:05 |
| clarkb | so will likely transition to trying to clean that up post xenial switch | 19:05 |
| clarkb | its amazing what you find when you run all the tests in a giant loop :) | 19:05 |
| fungi | yeah, daunting! | 19:05 |
| clarkb | but no major issues with xenial yet | 19:06 |
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| anteaya | thank you for dusting out the corners | 19:06 |
| clarkb | a possible sqlite3 problem and nodepool is unhappy with the newer mysql | 19:06 |
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| clarkb | notmorgan: ^ I think you have a change to address the nodepool thing? | 19:06 |
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| zaro | looks like bindep is the trick to make this work however i don't see any examples of an actual others-requirements.txt file. can we add something that's definative? | 19:06 |
| zaro | i mean in the docs | 19:06 |
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| fungi | zaro: AJaeger has been proposing a bunch of them to projects so far, so get up with him when he's around | 19:07 |
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| fungi | or i can find you some after the meeting | 19:07 |
| zaro | cool. | 19:07 |
| clarkb | oh right for python-jenkins | 19:07 |
| clarkb | I can help with that too | 19:07 |
| fungi | thanks clarkb! | 19:08 |
| fungi | #topic PROPOSED: Firehose, a unified message bus for Infra services (mtreinish, fungi) | 19:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "PROPOSED: Firehose, a unified message bus for Infra services (mtreinish, fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:08 | |
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| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/329115 | 19:08 |
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| fungi | #info Council voting is open on "Firehose, a unified message bus for Infra services" until 19:00 UTC, Thursday, July 14 | 19:08 |
| pabelanger | I am excited for this | 19:08 |
| fungi | fun side project i promised to help mtreinish with | 19:08 |
| fungi | don't really need to discuss it in meeting unless there are serious concerns with it at this point | 19:08 |
| pleia2 | my questions are already addressed in the spec, so yay exciting | 19:09 |
| fungi | but please review. we're submitting a talk for the upstream dev track about it | 19:09 |
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| rcarrillocruz | i'm very intrigued what things we'll be able to do with it :-) | 19:09 |
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| fungi | #topic Priority Efforts: Zuul v3 and Nodepool+Zookeeper (jeblair) | 19:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts: Zuul v3 and Nodepool+Zookeeper (jeblair) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:10 | |
| fungi | i guess i should have listed Shrews there as well | 19:10 |
| jeblair | prepared text bomb to save time: | 19:10 |
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| fungi | (consider yourself pinged!) | 19:10 |
| jeblair | i think the zuulv2.5 work is stable now, and i and some other folks are focusing significantly on zuulv3 now. we're setting an ambitious goal of having enough done to do serious migration work by the time of the infra/qa latecycle. | 19:10 |
| jeblair | i'm volunteering to help people find things to work on in v3 -- here's what people are working on now | 19:10 |
| jeblair | Shrews is working on zookeeper for nodepool, which i consider in the critical path for v3 | 19:10 |
| jeblair | notmorgan is working on converting zuul to py3 so that we can have nice websockets and console streaming | 19:10 |
| jeblair | i'm working on the mind-bending configuration changes in the v3 spec | 19:10 |
| jeblair | jhesketh is working on forward-porting some of the stuff we learned about ansible in v2.5 | 19:10 |
| jeblair | mordred is working on figuring out how we can securely run jobs that are native ansible | 19:10 |
| jeblair | so if you want to pitch in or follow any of those efforts, those are the folks to talk to | 19:11 |
| jeblair | if you have significant time and ability to contribute to zuulv3, let me know and i can find something for you | 19:11 |
| jeblair | if you are looking for smaller things, then at this point, probably helping review those efforts would be best, | 19:11 |
| jeblair | or, alternatively, i have been sprinkling the code with lots of "TODOv3" items -- many of those could probably be worked in smaller chunks (they have my name on them, but that just means i have to explain what they mean, not that i have to do them) | 19:11 |
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| fungi | [bam] | 19:11 |
| jeblair | (also, i'm stuffing my face with a sandwich, so that helps) | 19:11 |
| clarkb | jeblair: can we also tack on there "fix floating ip support in nodepool" | 19:11 |
| clarkb | its not directly related but is important because we have ltos of users of nodepool that may not be able to use provider nets | 19:12 |
| fungi | i have doubts that fip support in nodepool is tied to zookeeper | 19:12 |
| notmorgan | so fwiw | 19:12 |
| clarkb | it isn't | 19:12 |
| jeblair | clarkb: s/nodepool/openstack/? :) .... but er, what's that about? | 19:12 |
| fungi | but yeah, that's something that can be worked on regardless i'm sure | 19:12 |
| notmorgan | the py3 stuff, zuulv3 will not be py27 compat. | 19:12 |
| clarkb | jeblair: well that too, but we know that nodepool can be made to work better bceause it did work better in the past | 19:12 |
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| notmorgan | we will be dropping (currently planned) py27 support | 19:12 |
| clarkb | jeblair: but recent chagnes have been a major regression in the reliability even though things weren't perfect before | 19:13 |
| pabelanger | I'm happy to help get our zookeeper cluster online. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/324037/ adds a single instance to nodepool.o.o but wonder if we should expand it to the full cluster out of box | 19:13 |
| rcarrillocruz | jeblair: i'm happy to get streams of work | 19:13 |
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| jeblair | pabelanger: i'd like to just run one zk on nodepool.o.o | 19:13 |
| rcarrillocruz | so i'll follow up with people you mentioned or feel free to ping me later with whatever you think i could work on | 19:13 |
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| pabelanger | jeblair: then we are ready :) | 19:13 |
| jeblair | rcarrillocruz: cool, we'll chat later | 19:13 |
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| fungi | we're mainly not impacted by the fip issues at this point because one of our fip-requiring providers went out of business, one switched to provider networks and one is offline | 19:14 |
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| fungi | but presumably other users of nodepool are in situations where fip use is mandatory for silly reasons | 19:14 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: this feels like a +mordred+Shrews conversation; mordred is not in a compatible tz atm | 19:14 |
| clarkb | ok maybe we can pcik this up when mordred and shrews are in compatible timezones | 19:15 |
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| jeblair | yeah, let's pick this up later... but i agree, i don't want to be in a position where we have to turn down a cloud because fips dont work | 19:15 |
| fungi | i think the fip takeaway (and i share clarkb's concern) is that we ought to make sure that new development on nodepool stuff doesn't cause us to forget that we still need to fix a use case we were supporting and severely regressed | 19:15 |
| jeblair | ++ | 19:16 |
| fungi | we are technically turning down bluebox right now for that reason | 19:16 |
| pabelanger | I'd also be interested in a discussion to maybe convert a few of our JJB templates into ansible roles. When time permits, maybe get a short list together | 19:16 |
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| pabelanger | or ansible playbooks | 19:16 |
| jeblair | i hope the fix for that is in shade anyway | 19:16 |
| jeblair | so it should at least have a good api barrier | 19:16 |
| mordred | morning all | 19:16 |
| clarkb | fungi: yup that | 19:16 |
| bkero | pabelanger: what's the impetus behind that? | 19:16 |
| fungi | pabelanger: i'm hoping that i can pitch in on the jjb->ansible conversion effort when zuul v3 draws closer | 19:16 |
| pabelanger | bkero: we won't have JJB for zuulv3 | 19:17 |
| bkero | Ah, makes sense | 19:17 |
| clarkb | pabelanger: you can likely automate/compile the vast majority to start | 19:17 |
| clarkb | pabelanger: shell builder becomes ansible shell module | 19:17 |
| jeblair | fungi, pabelanger: yeah, i'm hoping we can do a lot of that closer to the end -- maybe during the latecycle meetup. but starting to poke at it a little may help inform development/testing | 19:17 |
| clarkb | and so on | 19:17 |
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| fungi | cool, anything else on the zuul v3 and nodepool+zookeeper topic? | 19:18 |
| jeblair | clarkb: there's two forks -- how to convert all of our jobs, but also, how would we redesign the jobs with the additional tools we have | 19:18 |
| bkero | Moving to ansible should get us better resources to analyze run failures tool \o/ | 19:18 |
| pabelanger | clarkb: Yup, if we get some good working examples, other projects can be quickly bootstrapped for the conversion | 19:18 |
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| fungi | bkero: yep | 19:19 |
| clarkb | jeblair: ya definitely don't want to stick to the jjb model long term if we can make things better | 19:19 |
| pabelanger | ++ | 19:19 |
| jeblair | fungi: the only other point i wanted to raise is.... | 19:19 |
| fungi | aha, see it in the agenda now | 19:19 |
| jeblair | that i had been thinking we would drop dedicated zuul mergers in v3, in favor of combined ansible merge/launch workers | 19:19 |
| jeblair | but after writing 340597, i think zuul may need some horsepower to gather proposed config changes | 19:20 |
| jeblair | and i'm wondering if having a dedicated merger option might be a good idea | 19:20 |
| fungi | it does seem reasonable to make the merge work independently scalable from the job runnning | 19:20 |
| jeblair | i honestly don't know, but it's a potentially significant deployment difference | 19:20 |
| fungi | one is a per-changeish/enqueue workload, the other is a per-job-run workload | 19:21 |
| jeblair | so i wanted to bring it up as something for folks to think about | 19:21 |
| jeblair | fungi: exactly -- and i'm wondering, can we skim off the top of the merge-launchers for that, or will it be too much... | 19:21 |
| clarkb | jeblair: the underlying concern being related to in project configs? | 19:22 |
| jeblair | fortunately, i hadn't gotten far in gutting them, so it's not too hard if we want to keep em around | 19:22 |
| fungi | jeblair: i guess if the merge task is treated in the abstract like a kind of job, then maybe? | 19:22 |
| jeblair | clarkb: yes -- we need mergers to merge and read those files | 19:22 |
| anteaya | will this affect zuul downstream consumers? | 19:22 |
| fungi | so you have a "job" to create teh merge commits, and then your other jobs depend on that "job" | 19:22 |
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| jeblair | fungi: it's a bit less abstract than that because it happens before zuul decides what jobs to run | 19:23 |
| fungi | and i guess teh v3 ref push model does get simpler if the launcher has those commits locally on hand already | 19:23 |
| jeblair | fungi: but the main thing is that it's using *part* of the merger-launcher resources, but not as much as a real launched job | 19:23 |
| fungi | jeblair: good point, since the merge commits reflect repo states that have job configuraiton in them | 19:23 |
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| fungi | oh, though one launcher would be generating the merge commits, other launchers might run the jobs? | 19:24 |
| fungi | so you'd still need to shuffle them around the network | 19:25 |
| jeblair | fungi: indeed. so instead of that, we'd probably just end up merging commits more than once. :( | 19:25 |
| clarkb | anteaya: yes the whiole thing is a large non backard compat change | 19:25 |
| anteaya | clarkb: okey dokey | 19:25 |
| clarkb | anteaya: so anyone downstream will need new configs and deployment stuff | 19:25 |
| anteaya | or can pin to v2.5 and stay there a while | 19:25 |
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| jeblair | (if we don't have dedicated workers, there is a small chance a merge-launcher could reuse a commit on hand, but we will be large enough that won't happen often) | 19:25 |
| fungi | zuul 3.0.0 will be a major configuration, dependency and behavior change from <3 | 19:26 |
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| anteaya | ack | 19:26 |
| jeblair | anteaya: yeah, so all this is happening in a branch; deployment of it will be a very considered affair later on | 19:26 |
| jeblair | fungi: (that's eot from me) | 19:26 |
| anteaya | ah okay, sorry, I'll table my question | 19:26 |
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| fungi | anybody else have questions on this work before i move on to general meeting topics? | 19:26 |
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| fungi | What is the current status of the gerrit its-storyboard plugin? (anteaya) | 19:27 |
| fungi | er | 19:27 |
| fungi | #topic: What is the current status of the gerrit its-storyboard plugin? (anteaya) | 19:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to ": What is the current status of the gerrit its-storyboard plugin? (anteaya) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:27 | |
| fungi | #undo | 19:28 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x7f5bc0869990> | 19:28 |
| fungi | #topic What is the current status of the gerrit its-storyboard plugin? (anteaya) | 19:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "What is the current status of the gerrit its-storyboard plugin? (anteaya) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:28 | |
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| fungi | must be time for my afternoon coffee | 19:28 |
| anteaya | this is a question for zaro | 19:28 |
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| anteaya | so there are some patches: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:its-storyboard | 19:28 |
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| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:its-storyboard | 19:28 |
| anteaya | and some look ready to go save for some reviews | 19:28 |
| anteaya | zaro: do you just need reviews at this point or do you need anything else? | 19:28 |
| zaro | yes, they are all ready | 19:29 |
| zaro | jesusaur says change https://review.openstack.org/#/c/340605/ is failing due to https://review.openstack.org/#/c/340529/ | 19:29 |
| anteaya | well the one system-config patch depends on two puppet-gerrit patches, one of which is failing lint tests | 19:29 |
| zaro | i really have no idea if that's true or not | 19:29 |
| fungi | i guess it would be good to go ahead and get those through. i should probably have put this under Priority Efforts: A Task Tracker for OpenStack | 19:29 |
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| anteaya | zaro: this has a lint failure: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/331523/ | 19:30 |
| anteaya | ah sorry, I'll put it there next time | 19:30 |
| zaro | yes, 340529 is causing that lint failure according to jesusaur | 19:30 |
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| anteaya | zaro: ah thank you | 19:30 |
| zaro | but he also says he wasn't able to test it so i'm not sure whether it's a fact | 19:31 |
| anteaya | so nibalizer crinkle rcarrillocruz could anyone spare some puppety type review time for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/340529/ | 19:31 |
| anteaya | and I guess that is it for this topic, thank you | 19:31 |
| anteaya | unless you have more zaro | 19:31 |
| zaro | nope, other than it's been testing with review-dev & sb-dev | 19:31 |
| zaro | seems to be working | 19:32 |
| Zara | \o/ | 19:32 |
| anteaya | wonderful, thank you | 19:32 |
| anteaya | thanks fungi | 19:32 |
| SotK | that's good news, thanks for working on this zaro :) | 19:32 |
| fungi | awesome | 19:32 |
| fungi | #topic Mascot/logo for your project (heidijoy, fungi) | 19:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Mascot/logo for your project (heidijoy, fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:32 | |
| fungi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-July/099046.html | 19:32 |
| fungi | just a heads up that the foundation wants some consistent logos/mascots for each project team, primarily for them to use on foundation sites, but they have an illustrator on board to work with us on the design and we can reuse the artwork for any other community things we want | 19:32 |
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| fungi | i figure there are probably some on the team who have an affinity for this sort of bikeshed, so we can do that via ml or etherpad | 19:33 |
| bkero | infra badger? | 19:33 |
| rcarrillocruz | awww | 19:33 |
| fungi | preference? | 19:33 |
| anteaya | well we have had a gear | 19:33 |
| pabelanger | omfra animal | 19:33 |
| Zara | fungi's pet betta? | 19:33 |
| * rcarrillocruz remembers pleia2 showing zuul mascot in some talk :D | 19:33 | |
| anteaya | that was a pink dragon I think | 19:34 |
| fungi | yeah, pleia2's awesome mascot is disqualified for being a mythological creature | 19:34 |
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| rcarrillocruz | hah | 19:34 |
| pleia2 | it was a pink dragon | 19:34 |
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| anteaya | fungi: what, there are rules? | 19:34 |
| fungi | apparently that's an important aspect for reasons i'm unable to entirely reconcile | 19:34 |
| pabelanger | ocelot | 19:34 |
| fungi | anteaya: see the linked e-mail for details | 19:34 |
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| bkero | It's hard to get mythical creatures for the OpenStack field trip to the Sydney petting zoo | 19:35 |
| fungi | but anyway, i don't want to take up meeting time soliciting mascots, just to figure out where we should coordinate ideas and come to some consensus (for those who care about it) | 19:35 |
| anteaya | it just says "from nature" | 19:35 |
| anteaya | it doesn't say no dragons | 19:35 |
| persia | It says "animal or natural feature" at http://www.openstack.org/project-mascots | 19:36 |
| fungi | anteaya: touché. komodo dragon is probably already taken though | 19:36 |
| anteaya | I'll pick it up later, moving on | 19:36 |
| anteaya | we can try | 19:36 |
| anteaya | I'm arguing for dragon as a feature | 19:36 |
| anteaya | okay I'll stop | 19:36 |
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| fungi | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/infra-mascot-ideas | 19:37 |
| fungi | #info post mascot ideas and discussion to the etherpad, and we'll have a vote in the meeting next week | 19:37 |
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| fungi | or we can decide in next week's meeting to do a civs poll instead | 19:38 |
| fungi | whatever | 19:38 |
| fungi | anyway, week for feedback | 19:38 |
| fungi | #topic Intel/Mellanox Barcelona talk proposal: Openstack CI - testing SRIOV/NFV (wznoinsk) | 19:38 |
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| fungi | wznoinsk_: around>? | 19:39 |
| fungi | i guess let's come back to this at the end if we still have time | 19:39 |
| fungi | #topic Translations Checksite status and call for help, now with more data! (pleia2) | 19:40 |
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| fungi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2016-July/004524.html | 19:40 |
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| pleia2 | mostly I just need some feedback here | 19:40 |
| pleia2 | I outlined the issues we're having, hopefully clearly, in that email | 19:41 |
| pleia2 | happy to have this discussion on list, I just need that to happen :) | 19:41 |
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| clarkb | I'll admit to raeding the email and not knowign where to start | 19:41 |
| fungi | yep, so the primary issue is that redeploying devstack periodically is extremely failure-prone? | 19:41 |
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| rcarrillocruz | yeah, i'm confused why devstack is needed | 19:42 |
| fungi | specifically deploying from master branch tip with most services (those getting active translations) enabled? | 19:42 |
| clarkb | fungi: and configuring the fakes on the backend I think | 19:43 |
| fungi | rcarrillocruz: well, we don't need devstack exactly, we just need running openstack services deployed from master branch tip, with accounts configured for translators to log into and check their applied translations | 19:43 |
| rcarrillocruz | well | 19:43 |
| pleia2 | yeah, so translations cleanly apply | 19:43 |
| pleia2 | since they're also translating from dev | 19:43 |
| rcarrillocruz | that looks like a job the launcher could help with | 19:43 |
| rcarrillocruz | i assume the issue is doing the initial boostrap of the 'cloud' | 19:43 |
| rcarrillocruz | projects, users et | 19:43 |
| rcarrillocruz | c | 19:43 |
| rcarrillocruz | ? | 19:43 |
| clarkb | rcarrillocruz: no I don't think so, that all works fine with devstack | 19:44 |
| fungi | yeah, we need to import/carry over the config | 19:44 |
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| rcarrillocruz | so yeah, or no? | 19:44 |
| clarkb | could we run it as a periodic zuul job on a dedicated static host? | 19:44 |
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| fungi | do we also need to preserve database contents between redeploys? | 19:44 |
| clarkb | then we don't have to worry about puppet or any of that | 19:44 |
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| pleia2 | the trouble is we're not really involving CI in this right now, since the in-progress translations come from Zanata, not git | 19:44 |
| pleia2 | they only hit git when they reach 75% complete | 19:45 |
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| pleia2 | fungi: no | 19:45 |
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| fungi | well, we _could_ have a zuul job which does the devstack deployment and retrieves the translations i guess, with a static node as clarkb mentioned, though i'm not sure that changes the nature of the problem much | 19:46 |
| clarkb | fungi: it avoids the runtime issues | 19:46 |
| rcarrillocruz | yeah, i mean | 19:46 |
| pleia2 | fungi: nods | 19:46 |
| rcarrillocruz | the real issue is fragility of puppetry | 19:46 |
| clarkb | fungi: and uses the tools we expect to work all day | 19:46 |
| rcarrillocruz | ? | 19:46 |
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| pabelanger | it would be cool if we could use selenium some how to long into devstack and take screenshots of the current pages, then store them for people to review | 19:46 |
| pabelanger | I have no idea how much work that is | 19:46 |
| clarkb | basically trying to keep up with master of openstack is hard | 19:46 |
| clarkb | the benefit of using the CI tooling is it by definition needs to keep up | 19:47 |
| clarkb | pabelanger: we already do that | 19:47 |
| ianw | could you snapshot a .qcow2 that people run locally? | 19:47 |
| clarkb | pabelanger: in the horizon functional job | 19:47 |
| pabelanger | clarkb: really? | 19:47 |
| pabelanger | wow | 19:47 |
| clarkb | pabelanger: yup | 19:47 |
| pabelanger | TIL | 19:47 |
| fungi | problem though is unreliability of devstack deploying, so whether it's puppet or ansible/shell doing that if we're reusing teh same environment it's hard to fall back to an old but working version | 19:47 |
| pleia2 | clarkb: yeah, that's why I had my #4 in my email - we have this "make devstack every day" tooling, can we use it? | 19:47 |
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| fungi | for red/blue i guess we could deploy to alternating nodes and update dns, but we don't currently have any dns automation either | 19:48 |
| pleia2 | ianw: most translators don't have access to the resources (and sometimes lack the expertise) to run such a thing, they need a hosted solution they can just log into with a web browser | 19:48 |
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| fungi | yep, which was basically the crux of the request from the translation team to start with | 19:49 |
| fungi | run something where we can demo our translations, because we can't all run openstack | 19:50 |
| * pleia2 nods | 19:50 | |
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| pleia2 | I don't think we need to solve this in this meeting, but I could use one or two of you to hash over some options with | 19:50 |
| fungi | it boils down to a very constrained continuous deployment of openstack problem, but it is as noted still very hard to continuously deploy openstack from master with any real consistency | 19:51 |
| clarkb | fungi: it won't sovle anything to use the gate infrastructure but so much of that tooling is literally make devstack reliable | 19:51 |
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| fungi | clarkb: yep, i think using the ci for this is a viable choice, it just wasn't what got chosen in the original spec and subsequently partially implemented | 19:51 |
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| ianw | well, i can help with devstack ... but yeah, devstack just isn't very good for keeping things running longer-term in a no-touch manner | 19:52 |
| fungi | anyway, i can try to carve out some time to poke at this, though hopefully there are others with available time to help | 19:52 |
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| pleia2 | I'm not traveling again until the end of the month, so just grab me whenever, I'm around | 19:52 |
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| fungi | #topic Make it more obvious that OpenStack source on GitHub is a mirror (pleia2) | 19:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Make it more obvious that OpenStack source on GitHub is a mirror (pleia2) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:53 | |
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| fungi | this will almost certainly eat up the remainder of the meeting time | 19:53 |
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| fungi | wznoinsk_: if you're around, find us in #openstack-infra after the meeting | 19:53 |
| rcarrillocruz | pleia2: yeah, happy to help on ansible/puppet front | 19:53 |
| pleia2 | we talked about this before the meeting a bit :) | 19:53 |
| pleia2 | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-infra/%23openstack-infra.2016-07-12.log.html#t2016-07-12T18:35:15 | 19:53 |
| rcarrillocruz | i need to really read the whole thing to understand the problems | 19:53 |
| pabelanger | I think the idea in general pleia2. Update the descriptions is a good first step I think | 19:54 |
| pleia2 | rcarrillocruz: thanks, the spec + what we have in the puppet module is pretty comprehensive | 19:54 |
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| pleia2 | I've seen an increase in people submitting pull requests on github against OpenStack projects, about once a day | 19:54 |
| pabelanger | s/think/like/ | 19:54 |
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| pleia2 | I think this is just an increase in popularity of github in general, but we don't have obvious blinking banners telling people not to do that | 19:54 |
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| persia | Just a link to the cgit repo in the README is probably enough for most things. | 19:55 |
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| persia | Part of the issue is that github has better google-fu than cgit | 19:55 |
| fungi | persia: yep, and we do that, but this is solving the corner cases | 19:55 |
| bkero | There's always something like https://nopullrequests.appspot.com/ | 19:55 |
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| bkero | pull request bot that closes them and leaves them a message about the proper place to submit patches | 19:55 |
| fungi | bkero: we also automatically close all pull requests with a polite message | 19:55 |
| pleia2 | bkero: we have one | 19:56 |
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| bkero | oh cool | 19:56 |
| pleia2 | but it makes people feel sad and angry | 19:56 |
| rcarrillocruz | yeah, iirc jeepyb does something like that | 19:56 |
| pleia2 | they put in effort, just to be told "nope, go here" | 19:56 |
| pabelanger | Yup, I can confirm the rage of closing a PR | 19:56 |
| pleia2 | anyway, the point of this agenda item is to make sure it's worth my time and effort for a multi-prong approach to improve the situation | 19:56 |
| pleia2 | as pabelanger said, maybe appending descriptions we sync with Read Only: | 19:56 |
| anteaya | pleia2: what do you want to fix and do you think it will be fixable? | 19:57 |
| fungi | as mentioned before the meeting, i'm in favor of doing whatever else is relatively easy and automated to help make this even more obvious. just be wary that we'll never cover 100% of people who don't read what's right in front of them nor people who get incredulous over the idea of using anything besides github | 19:57 |
| pleia2 | also looking into adding a PR template explaining | 19:57 |
| anteaya | if you want to spend time doing this, I support you | 19:57 |
| persia | fungi: My suggestion is to have that near the top, rather than later on. As an example, maybe replace "OpenStack Compute (Nova) http://openstack.org" with "OpenStack Compute (Nova) http://openstack.org https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/nova/" or something. | 19:57 |
| Zara | I feel like better contributors would be willing to understand, so I'd be wary of trying too hard to please the grumps | 19:57 |
| pleia2 | Zara: agreed | 19:57 |
| anteaya | but I don't think we will reduce or eliminate people who have bad experiences | 19:57 |
| pleia2 | it won't solve the problem, but I seek to reduce it as much as possible | 19:57 |
| fungi | also be aware that mass api operations against github are terribly slow and unreliable | 19:57 |
| fungi | we used to update project descriptions via jeepyb/manage-projects | 19:57 |
| fungi | we had to stop | 19:58 |
| pleia2 | I didn't realize we had stopped | 19:58 |
| pleia2 | /o\ | 19:58 |
| fungi | a couple years ago, yeah | 19:58 |
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| pleia2 | alright, I'll see what's feasible for automation and report back in the form of patches and things | 19:58 |
| clarkb | it was making important ops like make project fail | 19:58 |
| fungi | you can fairly reliably update _a_ project's description via the github api | 19:58 |
| clarkb | I think you get 5k requests per hour | 19:58 |
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| fungi | if you try to update a hundred in a loop, you should expect it to not work so well | 19:59 |
| jeblair | for a one time thing, i'm sure we can handle updating descriptions slowly | 19:59 |
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| fungi | and if you want to do all 1k+ of our repos in one go, brace yourself for disappointment | 19:59 |
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| pleia2 | noted | 19:59 |
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| fungi | yep, that's basically my point. don't expect that we'll be able to dynamically adjust this at will. plan for it to be a manual update and for it to take a while | 20:00 |
| anteaya | thanks for the meeting | 20:00 |
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| fungi | thanks everyone! | 20:00 |
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| fungi | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 12 20:00:35 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-07-12-19.02.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-07-12-19.02.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-07-12-19.02.log.html | 20:00 |
| ttx | ohai | 20:00 |
| devananda | o/ | 20:00 |
| mestery | o/ | 20:00 |
| amrith | <cough> | 20:00 |
| * bkero waves | 20:00 | |
| jamespage | o/ | 20:00 |
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| flaper87 | o/ | 20:01 |
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| ttx | annegentle, dims, dhellmann, johnthetubaguy, mtreinish, thingee, mordred, morgan, russellb, sdague : around ? | 20:01 |
| jroll | \o | 20:01 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:01 |
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| annegentle | o/ | 20:01 |
| johnthetubaguy-w | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | waiting for the 7th | 20:01 |
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| dims | o/ | 20:01 |
| * edleafe sips his coffee | 20:01 | |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 12 20:01:40 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| * johnthetubaguy-w sits on train waiting to loose signal | 20:01 | |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:01 |
| * flaper87 bows | 20:01 | |
| ttx | Hello everyone! Our agenda for today: | 20:02 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:02 |
| ttx | Remember to use #info #idea and #link liberally to make for a more readable summary | 20:02 |
| ttx | #topic Propose Stewardship Working Group (SWG) | 20:02 |
| flaper87 | ++ | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Propose Stewardship Working Group (SWG) (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/337895 | 20:02 |
| ttx | amrith: care to introduce the topic ? | 20:02 |
| amrith | sure, thx ttx | 20:02 |
| amrith | in re: https://review.openstack.org/337895, the proposal for the SWG. | 20:02 |
| amrith | I took an action item to submit this proposal on behalf of a number of people, mostly | 20:02 |
| amrith | members of the TC, on the third day of the training we attended in Ann Arbor. A quick | 20:02 |
| amrith | synopsis about that training; it was conducted at ZingTrain (http://www.zingtrain.com). The | 20:02 |
| amrith | training focused on a concept called 'servant leadership' which it turns out is surprisingly | 20:02 |
| amrith | well applicable to the model of leadership in OpenStack. | 20:02 |
| amrith | Our feeling was that there was much that we could learn from this and that it was something | 20:03 |
| amrith | that we must investigate further, as a group, and not something that we could just discuss | 20:03 |
| amrith | and decide there as a small group. | 20:03 |
| amrith | We therefore felt that it would be appropriate to setup an OpenStack | 20:03 |
| amrith | working group that would make specific recommendations to | 20:03 |
| amrith | the TC, and that the TC could then deliberate and if | 20:03 |
| amrith | applicable, adopt. | 20:03 |
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| flaper87 | #info this is an advisory group | 20:03 |
| flaper87 | amrith: thanks for writing this down! | 20:03 |
| Rockyg | /me multitasks poorly | 20:03 |
| amrith | <sorry for the formatting> | 20:03 |
| amrith | I am happy to see that even in the drafting of this resolution, we have received and | 20:03 |
| amrith | incorporated input from jroll, johnthetubaguy, and eglynn. eglynn if you are here, I hope | 20:03 |
| amrith | the comment from dhellmann addresses your concern; the SWG is purely an advisory body, it | 20:03 |
| amrith | has no authority to make decisions, merely make recommendations to the TC that the TC can | 20:03 |
| amrith | then deliberate and decide on a course of action. | 20:03 |
| * johnthetubaguy-w makes happy noises in the general direction of that group and its intent | 20:03 | |
| amrith | All are welcome to participate. There's an OpenStack channel (#openstack-swg), there's a | 20:04 |
| amrith | weekly meeting that has been proposed (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/338134/) for | 20:04 |
| amrith | Thursdays at 1800UTC. At this point, the time does not appear to be broadly acceptable, I | 20:04 |
| amrith | will have to find an alternate time. This will likely result in a doodle | 20:04 |
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| * Rockyg can't even type right | 20:04 | |
| amrith | thx to flaper87 for the #info | 20:04 |
| amrith | #link https://review.openstack.org/337895 | 20:04 |
| amrith | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/338134/ | 20:04 |
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| amrith | Thanks TTX. I'll shut up now and listen. Thoughts, comments, questions, ... | 20:04 |
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| flaper87 | unless someone has a strong opposition against this group, I think it's an "easy" one. | 20:04 |
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| ttx | need to digest what you just pasted | 20:05 |
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| flaper87 | I really look forward to see what this group comes out with and to see the group grow | 20:05 |
| ttx | protip: paste one line at a time and pretend you type superfast :) | 20:05 |
| annegentle | ttx knows | 20:05 |
| annegentle | :) | 20:05 |
| amrith | I prepared a paste; among friends, no need to pretend :) | 20:05 |
| ttx | We already have enough votes to pass this. Is there any question ? | 20:05 |
| flaper87 | I'd love to see the knowledge in this group to be spread | 20:05 |
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| flaper87 | no objections or comments here | 20:06 |
| dims | and recruit actively PTL(s), core(s) etc | 20:06 |
| amrith | dims, that is part of the plan | 20:06 |
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| amrith | there is a session proposed for summit | 20:06 |
| amrith | <shameless plug> | 20:06 |
| dims | ++ amrith | 20:06 |
| ttx | Looks like the present membvers all voted for it anyway, so we won't have more questions | 20:06 |
| amrith | where we'd like to share more about the concept | 20:06 |
| amrith | and get more people involved. | 20:06 |
| johnthetubaguy-w | I want to help with that group, an awesome effort | 20:06 |
| annegentle | I like it, and can it then take on the work that ttx and flaper87 and I were going to do last week of coming up with more communications ideas? | 20:06 |
| amrith | is eglynn here? | 20:06 |
| dhellmann | I'm not sure how big we want this group to really be. At some point it will grow big enough to not be that productive. | 20:07 |
| amrith | thx johnthetubaguy-w | 20:07 |
| jroll | dhellmann: true that | 20:07 |
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| ttx | let's see how it goes | 20:07 |
| dims | dhellmann : "Anyone | 20:07 |
| dims | interested in leadership, stewardship, and OpenStack is welcome to | 20:07 |
| dims | join the working group." | 20:07 |
| amrith | one question for all; can we have the first meeting on thursday at 1800UTC | 20:07 |
| amrith | and figure out the best thing to do for schedule moving forward | 20:07 |
| eglynn | amrith: I am ... and TBH happier that the proposed WG is not restricted to the Ann Arbor training attendees | 20:07 |
| ttx | amrith: I won't be around, but don't let that stop you | 20:07 |
| amrith | or should I resort to a doodle? | 20:07 |
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| jroll | amrith: I'm free | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | dims : yes, though I don't know if we want to heavily recruit. the point was to have a small working group. | 20:08 |
| johnthetubaguy-w | dhellmann understand that concern it's totally valid, need to make progress, not just talk | 20:08 |
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| mestery | eglynn: ++ | 20:08 |
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| dims | ++ johnthetubaguy-w dhellmann | 20:08 |
| ttx | Alright, I'll approve this now | 20:08 |
| amrith | thx eglynn; wanted to make sure we closed the loop with you | 20:08 |
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| flaper87 | dhellmann: true! The growth I'd love to see is more like new members coming and others passing the torch. I'd love to see the knowledge in the group to be shared and a process to exist. | 20:08 |
| amrith | dhellmann, will go ahead with first meeting | 20:08 |
| eglynn | amrith: thanks! | 20:08 |
| * amrith shuts up | 20:08 | |
| flaper87 | eglynn: I don't think it was meant to be like that but I'm glad you commented. That helps clarify it for others too | 20:08 |
| dhellmann | amrith : so the 14th at 1800 UTC? | 20:08 |
| amrith | dhellmann, correct | 20:08 |
| Rockyg | Thanks! sounds rally healthy for OpenStack | 20:08 |
| amrith | thursday (my math was bad; i said 15th earlier) | 20:09 |
| amrith | 14th, 1800UTC | 20:09 |
| * gothicmindfood high fives everyone | 20:09 | |
| ttx | #info first meeting Thursday Jul 14 at 1800 UTC | 20:09 |
| flaper87 | amrith: I don't think I'll be able to make it at that time but I'll follow it on ML and logs | 20:09 |
| amrith | as currently proposed in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/338134/ | 20:09 |
| ttx | Alright approved | 20:09 |
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| amrith | thx ttx | 20:09 |
| flaper87 | w000h0000 | 20:09 |
| ttx | Let's move on | 20:09 |
| jroll | gothicmindfood: ^5 | 20:09 |
| ttx | #topic Add Juju Charms for OpenStack | 20:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add Juju Charms for OpenStack (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:10 | |
| amrith | thx gothicmindfood ... | 20:10 |
| annegentle | jroll: nice | 20:10 |
| ttx | gothicmindfood: ^5 | 20:10 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/224797 | 20:10 |
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| ttx | Quick bit of history, this was originally proposed in September 2015 | 20:10 |
| ttx | It was rejected back then due to absence of prior activity. | 20:10 |
| * johnthetubaguy-w wonders how long he will have data know :( stupid trains | 20:10 | |
| ttx | Then it was reproposed in May 2016, but since then we clarified the licensing requirements and the Juju Charms were not compatible | 20:10 |
| ttx | This is now fixed and "third time's a charm" | 20:10 |
| dhellmann | third time's the charm? | 20:10 |
| dhellmann | heh | 20:10 |
| ttx | (slow clap) | 20:10 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I win | 20:10 |
| * dhellmann yields | 20:11 | |
| * Rockyg *groans* | 20:11 | |
| edleafe | ttx: did you reject them twice just so you could write that? :) | 20:11 |
| ttx | Questions ? | 20:11 |
| ttx | edleafe: Noooooo | 20:11 |
| * flaper87 can tell ttx is laughing right now | 20:11 | |
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| annegentle | groaaan | 20:12 |
| flaper87 | it looks good to me! | 20:12 |
| dims | lol | 20:12 |
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| annegentle | you win at #dadjoke ttx | 20:12 |
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| ttx | jamespage: My main objection at this point is that my spam filter tags all [charms] emails as [SPAM] | 20:13 |
| mestery | ttx: seems legit ;) | 20:13 |
| jamespage | ttx, lol | 20:13 |
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| annegentle | that's funny! | 20:13 |
| jamespage | I'll replace some of the letters with [ch4rm$] | 20:13 |
| jamespage | see if that helps | 20:13 |
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| johnthetubaguy-w | Heh | 20:14 |
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| ttx | Could use one more vote | 20:14 |
| notmorgan | jamespage: [sɯɹɐɥɔ] | 20:14 |
| jamespage | that will make my neck hurt | 20:14 |
| ttx | annegentle, johnthetubaguy-w ? | 20:14 |
| johnthetubaguy-w | Oh, I thought I voted already | 20:15 |
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| ttx | new patchset | 20:15 |
| ttx | annegentle: same | 20:15 |
| jamespage | diff was for the readthedoc.io link to the charm-guide | 20:15 |
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| johnthetubaguy-w | Yeah, I missed that, my bad | 20:15 |
| annegentle | jamespage: cool, thanks for doing that | 20:16 |
| ttx | annegentle: last call | 20:16 |
| jamespage | np - thanks for the reviews and feedback :-) | 20:16 |
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| annegentle | ttx: done! | 20:16 |
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| ttx | and win | 20:16 |
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| ttx | jamespage: thanks for your patience ! | 20:17 |
| flaper87 | jamespage: seriously! :) | 20:17 |
| ttx | Alright, next up | 20:17 |
| jamespage | ttx, no problem - thankyou for being patient whilst we re-licensed! | 20:17 |
| ttx | #topic Add project Tricircle to OpenStack big-tent | 20:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add project Tricircle to OpenStack big-tent (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:17 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/338796 | 20:17 |
| joehuang | hello | 20:17 |
| ttx | joehuang: thanks for being present! Hoping you're not based in China | 20:18 |
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| joehuang | first, [Flavio Percoco]'s comment was just answered | 20:18 |
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| ttx | because that would be an unresonable hour | 20:18 |
| annegentle | hi joehuang | 20:18 |
| flaper87 | joehuang: just read them1 Thanks for explaining :) | 20:18 |
| joehuang | I am in china :( | 20:18 |
| joehuang | hei | 20:18 |
| ttx | joehuang: oops. | 20:18 |
| annegentle | joehuang: eesh, thanks for joining us | 20:18 |
| ttx | OK, let me introduce the topic first | 20:18 |
| joehuang | thanks for understanding | 20:18 |
| flaper87 | joehuang: :( it must be super late. thanks for joining | 20:18 |
| ttx | Tricircle is a mechanism for scaling Nova/Cinder/Neutron beyond a single installation and onto several bottom pods | 20:19 |
| ttx | joehuang: feel free to correct me | 20:19 |
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| ttx | It uses a top setup with Keystone and API proxies, which record the tenant / pod relation, and then pass requests through | 20:19 |
| joehuang | will do if needed | 20:19 |
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| ttx | Reading the current comments on the review, we can find on the positive side that it's mostly stateless, using a design close to how Ubernetes scales beyond a single K8s cluster | 20:19 |
| ttx | On the negative side, it reimplements some APIs into the proxies, adds a layer of complexity, and is a bit orthogonal to the Cellsv2 effort | 20:19 |
| joehuang | correcet, simally as ubernets | 20:20 |
| ttx | Let's try to have an actionable discussion about this, I propose we take turns exposing our views rather than talk all together at the same time | 20:20 |
| ttx | Will make it easier for joehuang given it's like 3am where he is | 20:20 |
| annegentle | ttx: such as with handraising? | 20:20 |
| flaper87 | ++ | 20:20 |
| dhellmann | ++ | 20:20 |
| ttx | annegentle: yes | 20:20 |
| annegentle | ttx: and ++ good idea | 20:20 |
| annegentle | ttx: got it | 20:20 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 20:20 |
| johnthetubaguy-w | I'll be honest, it's the proxies that worry me, it reimplements APIs in a not very interop friendly way | 20:20 |
| ttx | flaper87 has the mike | 20:20 |
| flaper87 | johnthetubaguy-w: hand raising >.> | 20:21 |
| maishsk | o/ | 20:21 |
| flaper87 | :P | 20:21 |
| joehuang | hello, john, already explained in the reply to ttx, | 20:21 |
| flaper87 | Well, as johnthetubaguy-w said, I think the proxying part is the one that really worries me. It's good that they are using tempest | 20:21 |
| johnthetubaguy-w | I worry we will end up with two ways of scaling openstack that are not API compatible | 20:21 |
| flaper87 | which makes it less worrisome as it actually tests the API. However, I've the feeling that won't be enough | 20:21 |
| flaper87 | And we'll make clouds not interoperable | 20:22 |
| flaper87 | I'm done | 20:22 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:22 |
| joehuang | ok, let me answer a little | 20:22 |
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| joehuang | first, the bottom openstack can still use cellsv2 in nova | 20:23 |
| dims | o/ | 20:24 |
| joehuang | second, tricircle deals cross neutron networking | 20:24 |
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| joehuang | the third, some use cases, for example, use case2, use cases3 use case 4, multiple openstack instances required | 20:25 |
| joehuang | not just to scale single openstack | 20:25 |
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| ttx | (next up dhellmann, dims, maishsk) | 20:25 |
| joehuang | the deployment decision has already for multiple openstack instances | 20:25 |
| joehuang | especially use case 2 | 20:25 |
| joehuang | financial area is serious on security | 20:26 |
| mordred | o/ | 20:26 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: go for your question | 20:26 |
| joehuang | for flaper86 | 20:26 |
| dhellmann | I share the concerns about this being a proxy. | 20:26 |
| dhellmann | We've previously declared that DefCore should not test via proxies, because it removes control of the API definition from the team implementing the API. http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20160504-defcore-proxy-tests.html | 20:27 |
| dhellmann | Regardless of whether the intent is to be absolutely compatible or not, the practice of using a "smart" proxy introduces the chance that some incompatibility will be there, and so a cloud with Tricircle and a cloud without Tricircle will behave differently. | 20:27 |
| dhellmann | So while the team itself seems to be doing things a good way, I'm afraid adding this project will break our previous proxy rule. | 20:27 |
| * dhellmann hands the mic back to ttx | 20:27 | |
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| joehuang | we'll use tempest test cases to test the tricircle for compatibility, and defcore test if needed | 20:28 |
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| * dhellmann picks up the mic for a follow-up response | 20:28 | |
| ttx | dhellmann: that was not a question, more of a statement of incompatibility, but that's fair | 20:28 |
| joehuang | to dhellman, defcore test can be added | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | joehuang : the point is that we have already very clearly said that defcore should not test projects through a proxy like this | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | so whether or not the tests pass isn't the point | 20:28 |
| joehuang | if the api is incompatible, the tricircle has no value | 20:28 |
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| ttx | dims: you're up | 20:29 |
| flaper87 | o/ (again) | 20:29 |
| dims | joehuang : has tricircle team been able to influence other teams? to make things easier for you? | 20:30 |
| johnthetubaguy-w | o/ (joins queue) | 20:30 |
| joehuang | tricircle is to route the nova/cinder api, can discuss how to pass the defcore test | 20:30 |
| dims | joehuang : how is the collaboration going say with Nova etc? | 20:30 |
| jroll | \o | 20:30 |
| * dims waits for response | 20:30 | |
| joehuang | to dims, currently has interaction with L2GW | 20:31 |
| ttx | (next up: mordred, flaper87, johnthetubaguy-w, maishsk, jroll) | 20:31 |
| joehuang | and no feature requirements on nova yet, so new requirement to nova | 20:31 |
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| ttx | mordred: go for it | 20:31 |
| flaper87 | ( mordred before me? I won't ever talk) | 20:31 |
| maishsk | ;) | 20:32 |
| dims | joehuang : looking for any positive collbarations. thanks for your answer | 20:32 |
| mordred | haha | 20:32 |
| joehuang | thanks | 20:32 |
| mordred | so - two short things: | 20:32 |
| flaper87 | mordred: <3 | 20:32 |
| joehuang | and also tacker talked to tricircle for multi-site support | 20:32 |
| annegentle | wait did maishsk get to go? | 20:32 |
| mordred | a) you said that api compat is important, but then you're hiding region names from your api proxy - can you explain the difference? | 20:32 |
| ttx | (annegentle: I prioritize TC members over non-TC, hopefully there will be time for outside questions as well) | 20:33 |
| mordred | b) for the TC folks - this is a big tent, not a defcore inclusion discussion, so I do hope we don't fall into the trap of judging all of the tech decisions the tricircle team has made | 20:33 |
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| * jroll is fine putting his comments in gerrit instead, if it comes to that | 20:33 | |
| joehuang | to mordred, region name is not used in any api to nova/cinder/neutro yet : ) | 20:33 |
| joehuang | yes, thankyou | 20:34 |
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| joehuang | for big tent | 20:34 |
| joehuang | I think two factors to discuss: | 20:34 |
| mordred | joehuang: but it is used in the keysotne connection, and it's pretty important data for an end user to understand where their resource are? | 20:34 |
| joehuang | does tricircle ruin the mission of openstack | 20:34 |
| joehuang | whether tricircle follow the four "open" | 20:35 |
| joehuang | it's bigtent, not core project | 20:35 |
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| mordred | yah. I agree with that. I think the only bigtent concern I have is actually on the subject of duplication of effort | 20:35 |
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| ttx | flaper87: you're back | 20:36 |
| joehuang | to mordred, in keystone, all region, subregion can be shown by the admin | 20:36 |
| mordred | which I think is why I was asking about the region name thing - it seems like a difference in conceptual model which could lead it to be a competing view of how we should think of resources | 20:36 |
| joehuang | and keystone supports region/sub-region model | 20:36 |
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| flaper87 | Still on the proxy argument. I wonder how tricircle is planning to keep up with project's adding new APIs. It takes a bit longer for defcore to add an API but projects could add new APIs every cycle. In addition to this, I'd like to remind ppl that Glance is still paying the price of nova's image proxy. | 20:36 |
| flaper87 | If someone uses Tricircle internally, I think it's less of a problem. Tricircle as a public service is probably what worries me the most. | 20:36 |
| joehuang | so you will see like a region/sub-region tree | 20:36 |
| flaper87 | Re mordred's #b point. I'm worried about the proxy and the technical impact that has on the projects and the duplication of efforts. | 20:36 |
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| ttx | (next up: johnthetubaguy-w, maishsk, jroll) | 20:37 |
| joehuang | to flaper87 | 20:37 |
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| joehuang | first, this is bigtent application, and I answered the concerns on one bigtent project, am I wrong? | 20:38 |
| joehuang | second | 20:38 |
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| joehuang | the reference matrial[1] has listed the use cases where we have to use the tricircle | 20:39 |
| joehuang | for adding new api, tricircle is a bigtent project(if), will not block nova,cinder/neutorn to add new appi | 20:39 |
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| ttx | I guess one way to see this question is whether Tricircle is OpenStack, or something that consumes OpenStacks. It's not an easy question and this will likely require several meetings to iron out. | 20:40 |
| joehuang | if these projects add new api, tricircle will implement later(not reimplement all code) | 20:40 |
| ttx | johnthetubaguy-w: you're next | 20:40 |
| * johnthetubaguy-w notes nova adds lots of API microversions on every cycle http://docs.openstack.org/developer/nova/api_microversion_history.html | 20:40 | |
| jroll | ttx++ | 20:40 |
| johnthetubaguy-w | So I am worried this hurts the openstack mission | 20:40 |
| flaper87 | johnthetubaguy-w: my point exactly | 20:41 |
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| edleafe | ttx: my thoughts too | 20:41 |
| johnthetubaguy-w | We have regions and federation, etc | 20:41 |
| flaper87 | #info Is Tricircle OpenStack? Or is it a project consuming OpenStack? | 20:41 |
| joehuang | to john, for these who use nova/cinder/neutron directly can have latest api | 20:41 |
| flaper87 | not really info, more like a note | 20:41 |
| johnthetubaguy-w | Now if it were all client side I would wave it through say, sounds fancy might help someone, cool bananas | 20:42 |
| ttx | johnthetubaguy-w: +1 | 20:42 |
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| flaper87 | #info most members worried about the duplication of efforts and the gateway aspect of tricircle | 20:42 |
| joehuang | tricirle will introduce the feature and microversion later | 20:42 |
| johnthetubaguy-w | Now if it's a different API that does a specific thing, then that's not so bad either, it's more like competing with heat orchestration | 20:42 |
| johnthetubaguy-w | Feels like heat should orchestra setting up the security groups and l2 gateways between regions | 20:43 |
| joehuang | to john, could you read the reply to you about heat | 20:43 |
| joehuang | and we need to consider the use cases in the material[1] | 20:43 |
| johnthetubaguy-w | Been offline most of the day, so not read all the conversation on there yet | 20:43 |
| ttx | maishsk: thanks for waiting. What was your question ? | 20:43 |
| ttx | (if it wasn't answered yet) | 20:44 |
| maishsk | ttx: THanks | 20:44 |
| maishsk | Firstly I think the concept would be a great addition to OpenStack. My question is about the DB. You mentioned in the commit that Tricircle uses its own DB - can you elaborate a bit more on that? What DB is used? Are you re-using existing DB technologies already present in other OpenStack projects? | 20:44 |
| joehuang | to maishsk, | 20:44 |
| joehuang | no, it's a small db for routing table | 20:44 |
| ttx | jroll: Thanks for waiting. What was your question ? | 20:44 |
| jroll | I'm curious how Tricircle does the scheduling. Does it choose an OpenStack instance at random, or does it actually inspect the resources available in each instance and schedule based on that? I worry that this will eventually reimplement Nova's scheduler, or even be different enough that a request would be scheduled to an OpenStack instance that cannot satisfy the request. | 20:45 |
| jroll | (also posted in gerrit) | 20:45 |
| joehuang | to jroll, not random, in expansion scenario | 20:45 |
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| jroll | this is about when the user does not specify an openstack instance, by the way | 20:45 |
| joehuang | if one exhausted, the new added one should be selected | 20:45 |
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| joehuang | it's on openstack instance level | 20:46 |
| jroll | joehuang: how about geo-distributed case? | 20:46 |
| maishsk | joehuang: I dont think you answered the question. A small DB - which means another DB technology in OpenStack? | 20:46 |
| joehuang | not on compute node level | 20:46 |
| joehuang | to maishsk, | 20:46 |
| jroll | joehuang: how does tricircle know that an instance can satisfy the request? | 20:46 |
| ttx | maishsk: I think he means a separate database, not a special one | 20:47 |
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| joehuang | the database has several tables for the tricircle | 20:47 |
| jroll | right, it appears to use sqlalchemy https://github.com/openstack/tricircle/blob/master/tricircle/db/models.py | 20:47 |
| joehuang | to ttx, +1, thanks | 20:47 |
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| maishsk | joehuang: understood - much obliged! | 20:47 |
| Rockyg | joehuang, is db mysql? | 20:47 |
| joehuang | to jroll, support geo-distributed case | 20:48 |
| Rockyg | oops. Thank jroll | 20:48 |
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| ttx | We still have time for one or two questions before we need to move on to Open discussion | 20:48 |
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| joehuang | more question can be commented in the patch | 20:48 |
| joehuang | so can answer in detail | 20:48 |
| jroll | I'm still curious how tricircle knows that an openstack instance can satisfy a build request before scheduling, but that can be answered in gerrit | 20:49 |
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| flaper87 | joehuang: thanks again for your patience and your time. We'll try to put everything on the patch and spare you another meeting | 20:49 |
| ttx | The main concern, I think is that a Tricircle cloud is not really an OpenStack cloud. It may look like one, but it's different | 20:49 |
| joehuang | to ttx : +++++1 | 20:49 |
| johnthetubaguy-w | +1 for async | 20:49 |
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| annegentle | joehuang: thanks for either staying awake or waking early | 20:49 |
| ttx | and including it in "OpenStack" would make it a bit confusing | 20:49 |
| joehuang | so how to express to reduce missunderstanding | 20:50 |
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| joehuang | but for bigtent, the tricircle does not ruin the openstack mission | 20:50 |
| ttx | joehuang: we'll likely have to think about this question quite a bit, iterate on the review and future meetings. | 20:50 |
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| joehuang | please consider the use cases | 20:50 |
| johnthetubaguy-w | It's the API I find confusing, rather than the text / presentation | 20:50 |
| joehuang | which need the tircircle | 20:51 |
| ttx | joehuang: thanks again for staying up so late. We'll try to make progress through the review and ML threads to reduce dependence on presence in the meeting | 20:51 |
| johnthetubaguy-w | I don't get the need for a single API endpoint I guess | 20:51 |
| jroll | the big red flag to me is that tricircle doesn't do microversions yet, which shows me how behind the APIs might get from reality | 20:51 |
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| flaper87 | Let's put all these comments on the review if they are not there already | 20:51 |
| johnthetubaguy-w | Jroll +1 | 20:51 |
| joehuang | to jroll, this could be implemeted step by srep | 20:51 |
| jroll | joehuang: I understand that :) | 20:52 |
| joehuang | yes in the review comment, so I can answer offline in detail | 20:52 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:52 | |
| jroll | ++ | 20:52 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 20:52 |
| flaper87 | just a quick, hopefully, one | 20:52 |
| flaper87 | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/332751/ | 20:52 |
| dhellmann | ttx: do we know when the joint tc/board/uc meeting is in barcelona? | 20:52 |
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| flaper87 | Can we do a quick review on that one? I've moved all the changes requiring discussion to the follow-up patch | 20:52 |
| ttx | dhellmann: just asked for update. Looks like the plan is to have it Monday afternoon | 20:53 |
| ttx | (summit starts on Tuesday) | 20:53 |
| dhellmann | ttx: ok, thanks | 20:53 |
| flaper87 | ++ | 20:53 |
| * dhellmann is trying to plan travel | 20:53 | |
| ttx | "2:30-5:00pm Joint TC / UC / BoD mtg" | 20:53 |
| dhellmann | those are local times? | 20:53 |
| ttx | #info Board+TC+UC meeting planned for 2:30pm Monday Oct 24 | 20:53 |
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| ttx | yes | 20:53 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: yup | 20:53 |
| ttx | flaper87: I'm fine approving it if you can gather enough votes in-meeting to make it happen :) | 20:54 |
| ttx | Next week we have a lot of TC members on the road, due to conferences and various midcycles, so I propose we skip it | 20:54 |
| flaper87 | annegentle: dhellmann mestery mordred https://review.openstack.org/#/c/332751/ | 20:54 |
| flaper87 | :P | 20:54 |
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| ttx | The week after, July 26, I'll be off -- flaper87 are you still interested in standing in for me ? | 20:54 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: oh you voted already | 20:54 |
| mestery | flaper87: I got your back, the first one was good to me | 20:54 |
| flaper87 | +! for skipping next week's meeting | 20:55 |
| flaper87 | +1 | 20:55 |
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| ttx | mordred: any progress on the P/Q naming side ? | 20:55 |
| flaper87 | I'm taking the 26th meeting | 20:55 |
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| dhellmann | +1 to skipping next week | 20:55 |
| mordred | ttx: yes - I spoke with Andrew from Cornell | 20:55 |
| mordred | I uploaded too many emails at a time - which has also caused Cornell IT to be cross with him | 20:55 |
| mordred | once things have settled down, I'll reupload in batches | 20:55 |
| mordred | and all should be good | 20:56 |
| ttx | mordred: I'd love to meet that guy! | 20:56 |
| flaper87 | mordred: annegentle: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/332751/ :D | 20:56 |
| * flaper87 got his email | 20:56 | |
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| johnthetubaguy-w | +1 on the skip | 20:56 |
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| flaper87 | ttx: 7, go! | 20:56 |
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| annegentle | I'm out 7/26 anyway | 20:56 |
| joehuang | hello, may meet some tc in OpenStack china days to talk about the tricircle f2f | 20:56 |
| ttx | #info Skipping Jul 19 meeting due to too many TC members on the road. Next meeting on Jul 26 with flaper87 chairing | 20:57 |
| * flaper87 writes that down in his calendar | 20:57 | |
| flaper87 | "Do not travel on the 26th" | 20:57 |
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| mordred | flaper87: good luck with that | 20:57 |
| ttx | flaper87: you might not have quorum either on Jul 26 but worth a try | 20:57 |
| flaper87 | mordred: :P | 20:57 |
| ttx | Any other work in progress someone wants to report on ? | 20:57 |
| flaper87 | ttx: yeah | 20:57 |
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| annegentle | I'd like to reschedule with ttx and flaper87 this week to talk comms, I'll send an invite | 20:58 |
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| annegentle | and of course anyone else who wants to join | 20:58 |
| dims | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/339175/ | 20:58 |
| flaper87 | annegentle: thanks! | 20:58 |
| ttx | At the TC meeting time, I'll be watching a play at the Avignon theater festival | 20:58 |
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| ttx | (on the 26th) | 20:58 |
| dims | would love to have folks chime in again | 20:58 |
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| flaper87 | ttx: I'll make sure to have OPs pwoer to kick/ban you if you show up on the 26th from the play | 20:59 |
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| ttx | annegentle: I'm off Wed-Fri this week, then traveling Mon-Thu next week. Feel free to move to email or have it without me | 20:59 |
| ttx | Anything else, anyone ? | 20:59 |
| flaper87 | dims: on my to read for tomorrow! Thanks for writing that down | 20:59 |
| * flaper87 stfu | 20:59 | |
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| dims | thanks flaper87 | 21:00 |
| annegentle | ok | 21:00 |
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| ttx | alrighty, closing this | 21:01 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 12 21:01:15 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:01 |
| ttx | Thanks everyone! | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-07-12-20.01.html | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-07-12-20.01.txt | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-07-12-20.01.log.html | 21:01 |
| mestery | Thanks ttx! | 21:01 |
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| mestery | And thanks joehuang for staying with us late into the night :) | 21:01 |
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| ttx | I hope he is in bed now | 21:01 |
| mestery | ++ | 21:01 |
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| oneswig | Nearly there y'all | 21:03 |
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| b1airo | hello! | 21:05 |
| jmlowe | Hello | 21:05 |
| priteau | evening! | 21:05 |
| b1airo | sorry - had to have coffee in hand, brain slightly mushy this morning | 21:05 |
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| rbudden | hello | 21:05 |
| oneswig | Take it away b1airo | 21:05 |
| b1airo | #startmeeting scientific-wg | 21:05 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jul 12 21:05:50 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is b1airo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:05 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)" | 21:05 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'scientific_wg' | 21:05 |
| b1airo | #chair oneswig | 21:05 |
| openstack | Current chairs: b1airo oneswig | 21:05 |
| oneswig | Hi everyone | 21:06 |
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| b1airo | #topic Review of Activity Areas and opportunities for progress | 21:07 |
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| b1airo | #topic Bare metal | 21:07 |
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| oneswig | b1airo: any development with your plans here? | 21:08 |
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| b1airo | purely for selfish reasons (we are planning a datacentre move and complete border, core, DC network refresh and design) i'd like to talk about Ironic's network requirements | 21:08 |
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| oneswig | my experience (a year old now) is that provisioning is flat but any other network can have VLAN segmentation | 21:09 |
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| b1airo | traditionally we've used Cisco FEXs as our out-of-band switching, connecting e.g. to iLO/DRAC and we also usually have a separate 1G interface into our hypervisors (separate to the high-bandwidth front-side/fabric) just in case we have driver issues etc | 21:10 |
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| b1airo | oneswig, i believe there is at least some work towards segregated provisioning nets | 21:11 |
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| priteau | oneswig: How do you configure Ironic to do perform provisioning on a different network than the one used by the instance in the end? | 21:12 |
| rbudden | b1airo: we have a similar setup | 21:12 |
| oneswig | There's a long-standing patch, still digging for it | 21:12 |
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| b1airo | when i last looked i figured FEXs wouldn't work, but since then i see Cisco seem to have broad Nexus support in an ML2 driver | 21:12 |
| oneswig | priteau: we had trusted instance images, I'm not sure if you can "unconnect" the provisioning network once the node is up | 21:12 |
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| b1airo | anyone used it (with or without Ironic)? | 21:13 |
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| priteau | oneswig: I see. In Chameleon we are developing our solution for this, currently in testing phase | 21:13 |
| b1airo | oneswig, priteau - sorry i should have been clear, disconnecting the BM instance from the provisioning network would be a requirement for us | 21:13 |
| priteau | Will be specific to our networking hardware (Dell S6000) | 21:14 |
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| b1airo | so we'd be trying to use the DRAC provisioning driver in the first instance | 21:14 |
| oneswig | b1airo, priteau: how do you / will you hide access to the provisioning network? | 21:15 |
| b1airo | and looking for a provisioning network whose Neutron driver untrunked the relevant V[X]LAN from the BM instances physical ports after boot | 21:15 |
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| priteau | oneswig: we are instrumenting OpenStack to change VLAN port config once the provisioning is done | 21:16 |
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| b1airo | priteau, cool - you had to do that yourself? i assumed it'd end up being Neutron driver dependent, no? | 21:16 |
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| priteau | b1airo: Yes we had to develop Neutron integration ourselves | 21:17 |
| priteau | it's currently in testing phase | 21:18 |
| b1airo | and of course we'd prefer not to have a flat provisioning network too, to avoid boot hijacking hijinx and so forth, but not strictly needed as we probably wouldn't use this for anything more than our own UnderCloud provisioning and perhaps HPC team | 21:18 |
| oneswig | priteau: is there an Ironic state machine transition you can trigger this from? I wonder if there's an 'official' way to do that | 21:18 |
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| priteau | oneswig: I haven't seen the code yet actually, it's developed by Northwestern University and quite recent | 21:19 |
| b1airo | #action b1airo to ask about Ironic provisioning network unplugging on os-dev[ironic] | 21:19 |
| oneswig | priteau: in a more general form I am sure this would find value in many other places | 21:19 |
| priteau | I know there is similar work happening upstream | 21:20 |
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| oneswig | priteau: I assume Rackspace onmetal has already solved this | 21:20 |
| priteau | it was discussed at the Austin meeting | 21:20 |
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| b1airo | ok, i've scratched my itch sufficiently - thanks! shall we move on unless anyone has other BM things to discuss? | 21:21 |
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| oneswig | nothing here | 21:21 |
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| b1airo | #topic Parallel filesystems | 21:21 |
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| b1airo | so, seems like a HPFS panel at Barcelona might be a goer | 21:22 |
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| oneswig | b1airo: I think it's going to be popular! | 21:23 |
| oneswig | you might find it difficult to get a room big enough once the panel are all sitting down :-) | 21:24 |
| jmlowe | Great, how many panelists have you found? | 21:24 |
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| b1airo | i particularly liked jmlowe's comment | 21:24 |
| b1airo | oneswig, lol | 21:24 |
| b1airo | IIUC the max for a panel session is 4 panelists plus a moderator | 21:25 |
| oneswig | jmlowe: not sure exactly but I saw some quick uptake following your mail | 21:25 |
| b1airo | though i can't imagine that is a hard ceiling | 21:25 |
| b1airo | just on that thread we already have 4 without counting me :-) | 21:26 |
| b1airo | not sure i'd make a great moderator, but i'd give it a crack | 21:26 |
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| b1airo | i may give it another 24 hours in the ether and then through something into the proposals | 21:27 |
| oneswig | b1airo: asking the questions not answering them? Given your experience it makes more sense the other way? | 21:27 |
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| devananda | b1airo: ironic/neutron network integration has been underway for a couple cycles - we're trying to get it in, but the feature is complex, and involves nova integration as well | 21:28 |
| b1airo | oneswig, may as well have a moderator that knows the lay of the land to some extent though | 21:28 |
| oneswig | There was also the question on vendors vs users | 21:28 |
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| b1airo | hi devananda - thanks for jumping in! | 21:28 |
| oneswig | Hi devananda! | 21:28 |
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| rbudden | hello devananda! | 21:29 |
| devananda | b1airo: short version is that ironic will call out to neutron at specific stages in provisioning/cleaning to attach/detach the instance from provider networks, so that tenants are isolated from the control plane -- and from each other | 21:29 |
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| oneswig | devananda: any idea on an ETA? | 21:29 |
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| devananda | on the network side, neutron ML2 framework is used. I've been testing with OVS, which seems to have broad support (your TOR must have HW VTEP support, at least) | 21:30 |
| b1airo | devananda, ok cool, so that's what i had thought was happening in current versions or is still in dev? | 21:30 |
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| devananda | b1airo: there's a partial implementation, where we can move the Node onto a special 'cleaning_network', that exists today | 21:30 |
| oneswig | devananda: what is the current solution for mapping ironic ports to physical switch ports for manipulating vlan state - is it a per-driver solution? | 21:30 |
| devananda | but tenant isolation and tenant-defined networks is not in-tree yet | 21:30 |
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| devananda | oneswig: that's in flight still. several companies have downstream solutions, but the upstream / generic solution is taking time | 21:31 |
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| b1airo | right, so a BM instance must be connected to a specific provider network then? | 21:31 |
| oneswig | devananda: ok thanks, which solutions are leading this? | 21:31 |
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| devananda | as far as ETA - I'd love to have a definitive answer, but I don't. I _HOPE_ we'll land enough of this in Newton to cal lit functional | 21:31 |
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| devananda | oneswig: arista, HP, rackspace, cisco are the main contributors to the code right now. I won't speak to any vendor-specific products/solutions | 21:33 |
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| oneswig | devananda: LLDP-enabled ramdisk? | 21:33 |
| b1airo | devananda, i was originally asking about this in the context of building a new out of band network infrastructure in a new DC. i'm assuming if we go with a policy of separate physical iLO + 1x embedded connection that we'll have covered ourselves sufficiently, but then comes the question of vendor support for Neutron | 21:33 |
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| devananda | b1airo: if your TOR supports OVSDB and HW-VTEP, I think it should work | 21:34 |
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| devananda | I've even done some testing on relatively old Juniper switches (with new firmware) and had some success | 21:34 |
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| devananda | oneswig: that's been proposed, but is separate work | 21:35 |
| b1airo | awesome, thanks | 21:35 |
| devananda | np! hope that info is helpful :) | 21:35 |
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| oneswig | Thanks devananda | 21:35 |
| b1airo | oneswig, back to your question re. vendors in HPFS panel - | 21:36 |
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| oneswig | I think the "war stories" can't come from manufacturers of munitions... | 21:36 |
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| b1airo | i think Dean specifically would be fine, but ultimately if there are other interested end-users/deployers it'd probably be better to have them | 21:36 |
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| b1airo | certainly we don't want product managers or "technical" sales | 21:37 |
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| oneswig | It's most important to have speakers who who are well informed and objective on vendor products | 21:38 |
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| b1airo | brb... | 21:38 |
| oneswig | Perhaps he is both, I don't know | 21:38 |
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| oneswig | How do people envisage structuring a panel on HPFS? Might be good to have lightning talks from each member on their use case scenario before open discussion | 21:40 |
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| b1airo | back | 21:41 |
| b1airo | (2yo decided to fall off the bathroom stool) | 21:41 |
| oneswig | all well I hope :-) | 21:42 |
| b1airo | oneswig, good idea yeah | 21:42 |
| b1airo | and then leave plenty of time for audience question/discussion | 21:42 |
| oneswig | I wonder if it's possible to ask for more than 40 minutes for the session | 21:42 |
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| oneswig | Recall the Austin summit, we had 4x Ironic lightning talks and no panel discussion in 40 minutes | 21:43 |
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| b1airo | oh PS: i'm one of the track chairs for HPC/Research, did you ever through your name in oneswig ? | 21:44 |
| oneswig | I did, think it's come through | 21:44 |
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| b1airo | ok, so we are in a good position to try and get a longer spot then :-) | 21:44 |
| oneswig | Perhaps we can run a couple of much longer sessions, drawing from WG activity areas | 21:45 |
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| b1airo | that'd be nice, 40 mins in a good energised session never seems enough | 21:46 |
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| b1airo | i guess bare-metal would have enough working group contributors, and it'd probably facilitate good UC <-> Dev crossover | 21:47 |
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| oneswig | I wonder if we could have a session in which representatives from various deploy projects (OpenStack-Ansible, TripleO, etc.) demonstrate how to deploy and configure some HPC-like capabilities using their projects | 21:48 |
| b1airo | not sure about accounting/scheduling though, i feel like there are a lot of large subtopics there without a lot of clear solutions | 21:48 |
| oneswig | b1airo: agreed, too nebulous right now | 21:48 |
| rbudden | oneswig: that would be interesting | 21:48 |
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| b1airo | oneswig, think it's worth calling out to the relevant dev list topics for takers? | 21:50 |
| oneswig | #action oneswig to make enquiries re: deployment and report back | 21:50 |
| oneswig | b1airo: my thoughts exactly :-) | 21:50 |
| b1airo | great minds | 21:50 |
| oneswig | I wouldn't know... | 21:50 |
| b1airo | ok, i think we'll skip account and scheduling unless anyone has something to raise? | 21:50 |
| b1airo | (in today's meeting i mean) | 21:50 |
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| b1airo | #topic OpenStack & HPC white paper | 21:51 |
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| b1airo | anything to talk about on this oneswig ? | 21:51 |
| oneswig | So this is starting to come together, here's the latest | 21:51 |
| b1airo | i guess you are just in the think of plugging away whilst also trying to help with the Cambridge deployment? | 21:51 |
| oneswig | In time for SC, we are looking to generate content on 5ish topics | 21:52 |
| oneswig | I'm pretty maxed out on the Cambridge deployment right now but as of this week we have a lull | 21:52 |
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| oneswig | Each topic, a problem statement, solution concept plus some positive words from a subject matter expert | 21:53 |
| oneswig | I'll find those topics... | 21:53 |
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| rbudden | is this related to or in conjunction with the SC Panel? | 21:53 |
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| oneswig | rbudden: in addition - this is basically brochures and a whitepaper download | 21:54 |
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| rbudden | ok great | 21:54 |
| oneswig | OK they are: | 21:54 |
| b1airo | rbudden, related, though i guess oneswig might be calling in the direction of the panel for SMEs as needed | 21:54 |
| oneswig | 1) Virtualisation strategies and alternatives for HPC | 21:54 |
| rbudden | i missed last meeting, but did have an action item on this… I have PSC approval for passing out brochures, etc. at our boot | 21:54 |
| oneswig | 2) OpenStack and HPC network fabrics | 21:55 |
| oneswig | 3) OpenStack and high performance data (filesystems, objects etc) | 21:55 |
| oneswig | 4) OpenStack and HPC workload management | 21:55 |
| b1airo | rbudden, brilliant, thanks for following that up! | 21:55 |
| oneswig | 5) OpenStack and HPC infrastructure management | 21:55 |
| rbudden | b1airo: no problem. if we want to do demos/presentations that possible with additional heads up and/or approval | 21:56 |
| oneswig | Possible bonus topic on federation, but that's not HPC-specific plus I think we'll have our hands full | 21:56 |
| oneswig | I'm generating much of this content as part of my contract with Cambridge but will be seeking SME input in many areas - look out y'all | 21:57 |
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| b1airo | #topic Other Business | 21:57 |
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| b1airo | time's almost up | 21:57 |
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| b1airo | i did quickly want to call out for contributions to the hypervisor tuning guide, particularly on hypervisors other than KVM | 21:58 |
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| b1airo | Joe Topjian from Cybera put it together originally from the output of various hypervisor tuning ops sessions, but we haven't quite figured out what to do with it from there | 21:59 |
| oneswig | Isn't KVM something like 90% of deployments now? | 21:59 |
| b1airo | would be nice to lift it out of wiki obscurity | 21:59 |
| b1airo | oneswig, yes it's certainly the most popular, don't know about the actual numbers breakdown of the top of my head though | 22:00 |
| rbudden | KVM is pretty dominate | 22:00 |
| b1airo | the Xen people always have nice t-shorts though, so i have a soft spot for them :-D | 22:00 |
| rbudden | i remember the Havana Summit and I was the only one doing Xen in general in an entire room :P | 22:00 |
| b1airo | *t-shirts | 22:00 |
| oneswig | I wonder if there's anything you can tune with Canonical's LXD | 22:00 |
| b1airo | not sure what a t-short is, but it sounds uncomfortable | 22:01 |
| b1airo | oneswig, i guess there would be | 22:01 |
| jmlowe | sorry, re SC'16: I'm still waiting for the scheduling for our booth, it's just a question of how many time slots for booth talks, at least 30 min /day would be minimum | 22:02 |
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| oneswig | #action oneswig to ask his friends at canonical re LXD tuning | 22:02 |
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| oneswig | We are over time | 22:02 |
| b1airo | jmlowe, are you planning to show off any of your OpenStack work? | 22:03 |
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| rbudden | speaking of SC, one thing to add, if we want talks/demos we should prep that earlier. I can likely get approval for those but the content/timeslots need arranged earlier rather than later | 22:03 |
| b1airo | rbudden, yes certainly need to have that organised well in advance. at this stage i suspect it'll largely be the whitepaper oneswig was talking about plus some other generic foundation materials | 22:04 |
| jmlowe | b1airo: yes, I was also thinking general Openstack and HPC booth talks open to any wg member | 22:04 |
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| rbudden | b1airo: sounds good. I do have a pair of NUCs I can bring if we had a purpose to show a demo of sorts | 22:05 |
| b1airo | in terms of demos, that'd be cool but i'm not sure we'll get anything from folks that do not already have a booth presence, unless the foundation has a wheel-in demo system already going (only things i have seen are vendor specific) | 22:05 |
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| b1airo | jmlowe, ok that's great to know. we may get a better idea once we see some of the summit proposals and then match up with folks who might be at SC | 22:06 |
| rbudden | jmlowe: maybe the talk we are working on about Murano/Heat w/VM Repo would be interesting to demo | 22:07 |
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| * b1airo ears prick up | 22:08 | |
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| jmlowe | Yep, should cross you inbox as a summit talk soon | 22:08 |
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| rbudden | b1airo: we are working on a talk for Barcelona | 22:08 |
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| rbudden | we won’t ruin the surprise ;) | 22:08 |
| b1airo | excellent! | 22:08 |
| oneswig | Can't get you guys off the stage it seems :-) | 22:08 |
| rbudden | haha, that’s the plan! | 22:08 |
| b1airo | ok, must run - got to get to work o_0 | 22:09 |
| oneswig | Look forward to it | 22:09 |
| oneswig | OK, lets wrap up? | 22:09 |
| jmlowe | Cross site collaboration is a great way to wrestle loose some travel money | 22:09 |
| rbudden | yeah we are a bit over anyway | 22:09 |
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| b1airo | thanks once again all! | 22:09 |
| oneswig | thanks everyone | 22:09 |
| b1airo | #endmeeting | 22:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:09 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jul 12 22:09:47 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:09 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-07-12-21.05.html | 22:09 |
| rbudden | thanks! | 22:09 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-07-12-21.05.txt | 22:09 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-07-12-21.05.log.html | 22:09 |
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