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| hongbin | #startmeeting zun | 03:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 2 03:00:30 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is hongbin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 03:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 03:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'zun' | 03:00 |
| hongbin | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun#Agenda_for_2016-08-02_0300_UTC Today's agenda | 03:00 |
| eliqiao | o/ | 03:00 |
| hongbin | #topic Roll Call | 03:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:00 | |
| mkrai | Madhuri Kumari | 03:00 |
| Namrata_ | Namrata | 03:00 |
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| yanyanhu | hi, sorry, I'm late | 03:01 |
| sudipto | o/ | 03:01 |
| Wenzhi | Wenzhi Yu | 03:01 |
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| itzdilip | Dilip | 03:01 |
| hongbin | Thanks for joining the meeting eliqiao mkrai Namrata_ yanyanhu sudipto Wenzhi itzdilip | 03:01 |
| hongbin | #topic Announcements | 03:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:01 | |
| hongbin | I have no annoucement | 03:02 |
| hongbin | Any of you have? | 03:02 |
| hongbin | #topic Review Action Items | 03:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Action Items (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:02 | |
| hongbin | None | 03:02 |
| hongbin | #topic Runtimes API design (mkrai) | 03:02 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Runtimes API design (mkrai) (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:02 | |
| hongbin | mkrai: ^^ | 03:02 |
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| mkrai | I have implemented the APIs using pecan | 03:03 |
| mkrai | Uploaded the patch yesterday | 03:03 |
| mkrai | Currently some of the APIs are not running | 03:03 |
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| mkrai | Waiting for the RPCs to test it | 03:03 |
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| mkrai | I see hongbin has already uploaded patch for compute agent | 03:04 |
| hongbin | yes | 03:04 |
| eliqiao | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/328444/ mkrai? | 03:04 |
| mkrai | I will test using it this week | 03:04 |
| mkrai | Yes eliqiao | 03:04 |
| shubhams | Hi o/ | 03:04 |
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| mkrai | I would like team to review patch once I set it as ready for review | 03:04 |
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| mkrai | That's all I have. | 03:05 |
| mkrai | Anyone have any question? | 03:05 |
| hongbin | Thanks mkrai | 03:05 |
| eliqiao | We may use zun to test swarm bay(created bay Magnum) mkrai | 03:05 |
| mkrai | eliqiao, Yes we can | 03:05 |
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| mkrai | It depends on the implementation of compute apis now | 03:06 |
| hongbin | eliqiao: Or you can simply run a docker daemon at localhost and test it | 03:06 |
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| eliqiao | okay | 03:06 |
| eliqiao | hongbin: sure. | 03:06 |
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| mkrai | Also there is change in the APIs endpoint | 03:07 |
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| mkrai | which I will update in spec etherpad | 03:07 |
| hongbin | The API endpoint should be a configurable string | 03:07 |
| mkrai | That is for all the action APIs | 03:07 |
| hongbin | ok | 03:08 |
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| hongbin | #topic Nova integration (Namrata) | 03:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Nova integration (Namrata) (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:08 | |
| hongbin | Namrata_: any update from you? | 03:08 |
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| Namrata_ | as per discussion with hongbin | 03:09 |
| Namrata_ | That is using nova scheduler with nova integration | 03:09 |
| mkrai | hongbin, I, sudipto had some discussion last week which we recorded in etherpad | 03:09 |
| mkrai | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-containers-nova-integration | 03:09 |
| Namrata_ | and if without nova zun's scheduler | 03:10 |
| Namrata_ | can we ask opinion fro the team | 03:10 |
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| hongbin | Namrata_: I think you can relay your inputs to the etherpad above | 03:11 |
| Namrata_ | Okay hongbin | 03:11 |
| * hongbin is reading hte etherpad | 03:11 | |
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| mkrai | Namrata_, In that case does it mean our Zun scheduler should be optional? | 03:12 |
| Namrata_ | yes | 03:12 |
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| mkrai | Hmm that means we expect host information in APIs | 03:13 |
| Namrata_ | True that | 03:13 |
| hongbin | Yes, Zun should be able to return a list hosts | 03:13 |
| mkrai | Not sure about this implementation | 03:13 |
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| hongbin | mkrai: That is exactly how Ironic is integrated with Nova | 03:14 |
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| hongbin | mkrai: Ironic return a list of nodes for nova scheduler to pick | 03:14 |
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| yanyanhu | hongbin, you mean providing host list to nova and let it choose one? | 03:14 |
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| hongbin | yanyanhu: yes | 03:14 |
| mkrai | But ironic doesn't have a scheduler. Right? | 03:14 |
| hongbin | mkrai: yes | 03:15 |
| Wenzhi | then maybe we need to enroll the nodes manually | 03:15 |
| hongbin | Yes,all nodes should be enrolled at Zun | 03:15 |
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| yanyanhu | any one know how vcenter being integrated with nova? | 03:17 |
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| Wenzhi | ok, but how does Nova decide the dest node? | 03:17 |
| hongbin | yanyanhu: no idea from me | 03:17 |
| yanyanhu | which is a similar case I guess? | 03:17 |
| mkrai | Wenzhi, based on filters | 03:17 |
| hongbin | Wenzhi: nova retrieve the list of hosts, use filters and weithers to choose a host | 03:18 |
| Wenzhi | mkrai: yes, but currently nova do not have any filters for container case , right? | 03:18 |
| eliqiao | yanyanhu: +1 | 03:18 |
| yanyanhu | some reference: http://docs.openstack.org/kilo/config-reference/content/vmware.html | 03:18 |
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| mkrai | Yes Wenzhi | 03:19 |
| hongbin | Wenzhi: container is represented as a Nova instance if nova integration | 03:19 |
| eliqiao | in that case, nova-compute is just a gateway, vcenter will decide vm will be runing on which host. | 03:19 |
| mkrai | But some general filter would work for us too | 03:19 |
| mkrai | eliqiao, What is vcenter? | 03:19 |
| yanyanhu | eliqiao, right, that's why I feel it could be a similar case :) | 03:19 |
| yanyanhu | "The VMware vCenter driver enables the nova-compute service to communicate with a VMware vCenter server that manages one or more ESX host clusters." | 03:20 |
| eliqiao | mkrai: just talking about how vmware driver works from yanyanhu | 03:20 |
| Wenzhi | hongbin: if so, seems we need to introduce something like container flavor | 03:20 |
| hongbin | Wenzhi: yes | 03:20 |
| yanyanhu | Wenzhi, yes I guess so | 03:20 |
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| eliqiao | yanyanhu: the case of vCenter is strange, it will allow 1 compute node have multiple hosts. | 03:21 |
| eliqiao | for libvirt: only one compute node vs one host | 03:21 |
| Wenzhi | eliqiao: like powervc, hha | 03:21 |
| hongbin | eliqiao: In Ironic, there could be multiple hosts as well | 03:21 |
| hongbin | In the case of vcentre, basically, the nova scheduler is disabled? | 03:22 |
| itzdilip | no with respect to compute, vcenter is considered as host | 03:23 |
| Wenzhi | hongbin: not sure but I guess so | 03:23 |
| Wenzhi | vcenter itself is a cloud | 03:23 |
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| yanyanhu | eliqiao, yes, just considering the use case of container is very different from vm(at least in Zun scope), I guess this could be a feasible way to integrate Zun with nova? | 03:23 |
| hongbin | sounds like we need more investigation in this area | 03:23 |
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| yanyanhu | just providing limited support for provisioning container through nova | 03:24 |
| hongbin | That will work as well | 03:24 |
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| mkrai | Let's get a very simple implementation as Ironic and later we can of course enhance it as we evolve | 03:25 |
| eliqiao | If we intergrate with Nova, things get sucks, if not, we will lose the entry point of Nova ... | 03:25 |
| Wenzhi | maybe nova-zun-driver can just pass the nova cmd to zun and let zun do the whole work | 03:25 |
| yanyanhu | Wenzhi, yes, that's is what I'm thinking | 03:26 |
| hongbin | That is the proxy approach, basically, bypass the nova scheduler | 03:26 |
| Wenzhi | yes | 03:26 |
| yanyanhu | yes, Zun has its own scheduling strategy, based on 'container' use cases | 03:26 |
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| hongbin | ok | 03:27 |
| eliqiao | hongbin: just heard from colleague from nova mid-cycle, nova scheduler will be split out in one of two release. | 03:27 |
| yanyanhu | eliqiao, good news :) | 03:27 |
| hongbin | great | 03:27 |
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| Qiming | in the long run, we as one community, should converge to one scheduler as possible as we can, we are not supposed to reinvent everything | 03:28 |
| hongbin | Qiming: agree | 03:28 |
| Qiming | for the short term and mid-term experimentation, it might be okay to run a simple stupid scheduler algorithm, but the interface to that to-be-split scheduler should be clear | 03:29 |
| eliqiao | Qiming: ++ | 03:30 |
| yanyanhu | +1 | 03:30 |
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| hongbin | Namrata_: do you have enough information to proceed? | 03:31 |
| hongbin | Namrata_: or anything that needs to be clarify? | 03:31 |
| Namrata_ | Hongbin I will investigate more on it | 03:32 |
| Namrata_ | or maybe start with code | 03:32 |
| hongbin | Namrata_: sure. you can start with code, or start with a spec is also fine | 03:33 |
| Namrata_ | okay hongbin | 03:33 |
| hongbin | Thanks Namrata_ | 03:33 |
| Wenzhi | Namrata_: I think you need to start with a spec, nova demands that | 03:33 |
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| hongbin | Wenzhi: We started the work totally out of Nova I think | 03:34 |
| hongbin | Although start with a spec is a good idea | 03:34 |
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| Namrata_ | It will bot be in nova tree. Do we still need it? | 03:34 |
| hongbin | We can push it to nova tree later | 03:34 |
| hongbin | but I am not sure if Nova team will accpet it | 03:35 |
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| hongbin | If not, then the driver needs to stay at our tree | 03:35 |
| Wenzhi | I have the same concern ^^ | 03:35 |
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| Namrata_ | I will submit spec in zun | 03:35 |
| yanyanhu | no harm to have a try :) after we are ready | 03:36 |
| hongbin | yes | 03:36 |
| Wenzhi | agreed | 03:36 |
| hongbin | OK. advance topic | 03:36 |
| hongbin | #topic Integrate with Mesos scheduler (sudipto) | 03:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Integrate with Mesos scheduler (sudipto) (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:36 | |
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| hongbin | sudipto: could you outline the idea of integating with mesos secheduler that you mentioned before ? | 03:37 |
| yanyanhu | let zun stay upon mesos? :) | 03:37 |
| sudipto | hongbin, ok - so my thought was to have a way to run zun as a framework on top of mesos. | 03:37 |
| sudipto | keep in mind, this is just one way | 03:38 |
| sudipto | there is going to be a z-sched as you guys are discussing so far. | 03:38 |
| sudipto | but i'd like that to be pluggable. so that it can be overridden by a mesos scheduler. | 03:38 |
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| sudipto | the job of creation of container will also be done using mesos via it's executor. | 03:39 |
| mkrai | +1 sudipto. Schedulers should be pluggable so that we can integrate with any runtimes scheduler easily | 03:39 |
| sudipto | this would allow you to run zun with other container frameworks. presently the ones integrated with mesos are kubernetes and marathon as a frameworks | 03:40 |
| sudipto | so keep the interfaces clean and pluggable - that should do. | 03:41 |
| sudipto | unless there are thoughts/comments - i am done hongbin :) | 03:41 |
| hongbin | sudipto: I guess mesos is not just a scheduler | 03:42 |
| hongbin | sudipto: it also manages hosts? | 03:42 |
| yanyanhu | hongbin, it does | 03:42 |
| sudipto | hongbin, it has to run a slave on each of the hosts. | 03:42 |
| yanyanhu | it is a resource pool management service IMO | 03:42 |
| yanyanhu | and frameworks upon it provide strategy | 03:43 |
| hongbin | Yes, then with this idea, the mesos slave will replace the compute agent | 03:43 |
| yanyanhu | to manage lifecycle of tasks | 03:43 |
| hongbin | yanyanhu: what do you think about this idea? | 03:43 |
| yanyanhu | hongbin, interesting idea :) | 03:43 |
| yanyanhu | just not sure whether we should deeply depends on mesos | 03:44 |
| hongbin | yanyanhu: you steal my comments :) | 03:44 |
| yanyanhu | hongbin, :) | 03:44 |
| hongbin | (interesting idea) | 03:44 |
| yanyanhu | another concern about mesos is it's C++ based | 03:44 |
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| hongbin | yes | 03:44 |
| hongbin | Qiming: what do you think? | 03:44 |
| yanyanhu | could that be a problem for dependency building? | 03:44 |
| sudipto | so the workflow happens like this: there's a mesos master that talks to the mesos slaves. The mesos master gets a list of offers and presents it to the framework. the list of offers is nothing but a set of resources for a task deployment and then the framework makes the decision of where to schedule it. | 03:44 |
| sudipto | i would suggest keep this as optional. | 03:45 |
| yanyanhu | sudipto, just like how k8s on mesos works :) | 03:45 |
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| sudipto | yanyanhu, yeah precisely. | 03:45 |
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| hongbin | Yes, it should be optional at the beginning | 03:46 |
| sudipto | mesos allows you to simultaneously run two frameworks on the same set of hosts. | 03:46 |
| sudipto | that's the value add. | 03:46 |
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| sudipto | s/two/two or more | 03:46 |
| hongbin | I think another value add is that we don't need to re-implement resource management from scatch | 03:46 |
| sudipto | well that depends if you want to treat as mandatory or optional | 03:47 |
| hongbin | however, it is optional, so we still need a resource management | 03:47 |
| hongbin | yes | 03:47 |
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| hongbin | A drawback is as yanyanhu mentioned, it is C++ | 03:47 |
| sudipto | no that is not a drawback | 03:48 |
| hongbin | however, it could be solved by containerized the mesos-master and slave | 03:48 |
| sudipto | it has the python bindings. | 03:48 |
| hongbin | yes | 03:48 |
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| sudipto | so why is C++ a drawback then? :) | 03:48 |
| sudipto | the mesos core is written in C++ - we don't have to touch that code. | 03:48 |
| hongbin | I guess packing will be more difficult | 03:48 |
| hongbin | There is a big discussion about whether openstack should allow Golang | 03:49 |
| hongbin | and the packing team has a strong disagreement with the proposal | 03:49 |
| hongbin | same for c++ | 03:49 |
| sudipto | i don't think we will package mesos with openstack ? | 03:49 |
| sudipto | or intend to. | 03:49 |
| hongbin | no, if it is containerized | 03:50 |
| hongbin | OH, I see what you mean | 03:50 |
| hongbin | No, it is packaged by the OS distro | 03:50 |
| hongbin | so that looks fine | 03:51 |
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| sudipto | i mean this could be something very similar to this : | 03:51 |
| sudipto | #link: https://github.com/docker/swarm/blob/master/cluster/mesos/README.md | 03:51 |
| hongbin | yes | 03:52 |
| sudipto | but this is definitely not a priority i would say. | 03:52 |
| hongbin | I guess hte network and storage needs to be investigated | 03:52 |
| sudipto | more focus at the moment should be on the API design and the other pieces that would make zun stand on it's own feet first. | 03:52 |
| hongbin | yes | 03:53 |
| hongbin | #topic Open Discussion | 03:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:53 | |
| janki | Hi. I am Janki, new to Zun. I am looking for contributing to Zun. | 03:53 |
| hongbin | welcome to join the meeting janki | 03:53 |
| janki | Not quite sure where to start as all BP are taken and those not taken are all long term | 03:53 |
| sudipto | so are we looking at timelines yet to achieve things? I am guessing i'd be able to meet you guys at Barcelona. But should we aim for a PoC before that? | 03:54 |
| janki | hongbin: Thank you :) | 03:54 |
| sudipto | janki, don't worry about the BPs yet. Start with the reviews if you like it. | 03:54 |
| mkrai | Yes atleast docker support sudipto :) | 03:54 |
| janki | sudipto: Will do | 03:54 |
| hongbin | sudipto: PoC? | 03:54 |
| sudipto | hongbin, i mean something to work with or demo with. | 03:54 |
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| sudipto | i change my words - a working project :) | 03:55 |
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| sudipto | mkrai, yeah agreed. | 03:55 |
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| hongbin | yes, if we can make that, that is great | 03:55 |
| mkrai | Janki there is lots of work to be done in Zun | 03:55 |
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| mkrai | Attend meetings you will get the idea on which things you can work | 03:55 |
| janki | mkrai: I would be happy to work on those. | 03:55 |
| janki | mkrai: Sure, will attend | 03:56 |
| mkrai | cool : | 03:56 |
| sudipto | like for instance, can we say that during the next meeting we can have the API design finalised and mostly up for review? | 03:56 |
| mkrai | Hopefully yes sudipto :) | 03:56 |
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| sudipto | mkrai, i am happy to help! | 03:57 |
| mkrai | hongbin, Can I use the compute code now? | 03:57 |
| mkrai | Is it ready? | 03:57 |
| mkrai | Thanks sudipto | 03:57 |
| hongbin | mkrai: I haven't tested it yet :) | 03:57 |
| hongbin | mkrai: but everyone are free to revise it | 03:57 |
| mkrai | Ok I will try once | 03:58 |
| mkrai | Sure | 03:58 |
| hongbin | There will be a lot fo bugs though :) | 03:58 |
| sudipto | mkrai, i think the API code can move with stubs for now? | 03:58 |
| mkrai | The current one is just bypassing the RPC calls | 03:58 |
| sudipto | are we going to be using the docker remote apis ? | 03:58 |
| sudipto | anyway i think we are on the brink of the hour. I will catch on the zun channel. | 03:59 |
| mkrai | We will use the compute rpc apis | 03:59 |
| mkrai | Sure | 03:59 |
| mkrai | Thanks all! | 03:59 |
| hongbin | All, thanks for joining the meeting | 03:59 |
| Namrata_ | Thanks.. | 03:59 |
| hongbin | Next meeting is the next week the same time | 03:59 |
| hongbin | #endmeeting | 03:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 03:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 2 03:59:49 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 03:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-08-02-03.00.html | 03:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-08-02-03.00.txt | 03:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-08-02-03.00.log.html | 03:59 |
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| mkrai | janki, catch us on #openstack-zun if you have any doubts | 04:00 |
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| janki | mkrai: Thanks. I am an active listener there | 04:00 |
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| loquacities | hi everyone, we're due to start the install guide meeting, but i'm just going to wait 5 mins as andreas is running late | 06:00 |
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| loquacities | ok, shall we get started? | 06:06 |
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| loquacities | #startmeeting docinstallteam | 06:06 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 2 06:06:19 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is loquacities. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 06:06 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 06:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: docinstallteam)" | 06:06 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'docinstallteam' | 06:06 |
| loquacities | who's here? | 06:06 |
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| * AJaeger | 06:06 | |
| loquacities | heya :) | 06:06 |
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| loquacities | hrm | 06:07 |
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| loquacities | is katomo around? | 06:07 |
| katomo | o/ | 06:07 |
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| loquacities | hi! | 06:07 |
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| loquacities | anyone else? | 06:07 |
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| loquacities | might be just us three | 06:07 |
| dbite | hello | 06:08 |
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| loquacities | oh hi dbite | 06:08 |
| loquacities | ok, not too much to go through, but a couple of things that need to be discussed | 06:08 |
| dbite | I should be able to attend more regularly now :) | 06:08 |
| loquacities | #topic Manila patch is stalled | 06:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Manila patch is stalled (Meeting topic: docinstallteam)" | 06:08 | |
| loquacities | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/317152/ | 06:08 |
| loquacities | dbite: that's great! :) | 06:09 |
| loquacities | i'm not sure what needs to happen here, but i can reach out to goutham | 06:09 |
| AJaeger | please do, loquacities | 06:09 |
| katomo | T_T | 06:09 |
| loquacities | #action loquacities to ask goutham about 317152 progress | 06:10 |
| loquacities | #topic ops:docs:install-guide tag | 06:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ops:docs:install-guide tag (Meeting topic: docinstallteam)" | 06:10 | |
| loquacities | #info original patch abandoned: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/341933/ | 06:10 |
| loquacities | #info Followed up here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/347224/ | 06:10 |
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| loquacities | not sure if there's any action there from us, but it's an FYI, at the very least | 06:11 |
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| loquacities | #topic Testing | 06:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Testing (Meeting topic: docinstallteam)" | 06:12 | |
| loquacities | it's occurred to me that we need to start thinking about this | 06:12 |
| loquacities | i assume we'll go ahead and test the core install guide as per usual | 06:12 |
| loquacities | does anyone have any thoughts on that? | 06:12 |
| loquacities | i don't want this to be too arduous, as it defeats the purpose of splitting off the guides otherwise | 06:12 |
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| AJaeger | I'm under the impression we test only "our" part - not the one in the project-teams. | 06:14 |
| loquacities | yeah | 06:14 |
| loquacities | my thoughts too | 06:14 |
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| loquacities | ok, if that's all we have to say on that | 06:15 |
| katomo | something automation, such as Ansible or Puppet, works for us? | 06:15 |
| loquacities | #topic Work Items | 06:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Work Items (Meeting topic: docinstallteam)" | 06:15 | |
| AJaeger | might still be good to include them and ask them to test... | 06:15 |
| loquacities | #undo | 06:15 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x7f5bbf33cc10> | 06:15 |
| loquacities | katomo: there is a work item for automation | 06:15 |
| loquacities | AJaeger: i assume nothing has happened on that at this point, though? | 06:16 |
| loquacities | and yes, i'll ping the individual projects when we go into testing mode | 06:16 |
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| loquacities | i'll also engage with the CPLs to get testers, as well as the packagers for the distros | 06:16 |
| dbite | How long before we have the testing mode? | 06:16 |
| AJaeger | loquacities: nothing coordinated has happened | 06:16 |
| loquacities | AJaeger: i suspected that | 06:17 |
| loquacities | dbite: what do you mean by testing mode? | 06:17 |
| dbite | loquacities: Your words "before we go into testing mode" | 06:17 |
| loquacities | oh, i see | 06:18 |
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| loquacities | i meant "when we begin testing" | 06:18 |
| loquacities | which i would think will be in the next week or two | 06:18 |
| loquacities | i want to go through the guide more thoroughly before then | 06:18 |
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| loquacities | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/InstallGuideWorkItems | 06:19 |
| loquacities | so other than those couple of tasks we mentioned, we're pretty much ready | 06:19 |
| dbite | loquacities: Ok, I will try to coordinate trainig-labs scripts for Newton around the same time. Hopefully we could make things easier to test for the install guides team. | 06:20 |
| loquacities | that would be great :) | 06:20 |
| katomo | great | 06:20 |
| dbite | :) | 06:20 |
| loquacities | #topic other business | 06:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "other business (Meeting topic: docinstallteam)" | 06:20 | |
| loquacities | anything else? | 06:20 |
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| AJaeger | loquacities: I lost overview on what all needs to be done, too busy with other stuff. I hope you have not lost it. | 06:21 |
| loquacities | yeah, that's cool | 06:22 |
| loquacities | i think we're in good shapee | 06:22 |
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| loquacities | shape* | 06:22 |
| AJaeger | great! | 06:22 |
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| loquacities | with the exception of manila, everything is pretty close to ready | 06:22 |
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| loquacities | we just need to do the usual testing/update before newton, then publish everything up | 06:22 |
| katomo | facilitate any other projects? | 06:22 |
| loquacities | we probably need to consider some patches to the index page, too, but it will work until then | 06:23 |
| AJaeger | loquacities: is designate on your radar? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/341622/ | 06:23 |
| loquacities | katomo: yes, but i'm pretty much waiting for them to come to me at this stage | 06:23 |
| AJaeger | That's one I'm aware of as well (just checking my open reviews) | 06:23 |
| katomo | loquacities: got it | 06:23 |
| loquacities | ah, no i hadn't seen that one! | 06:23 |
| loquacities | cool :) | 06:23 |
| AJaeger | seems stuck as well ;( | 06:24 |
| loquacities | yeah, OS problems ... | 06:24 |
| katomo | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/333536/ | 06:24 |
| loquacities | same old same old | 06:24 |
| katomo | maybe zaqar | 06:24 |
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| loquacities | i was aware of zaqar, but thought they had everything in | 06:25 |
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| katomo | k | 06:25 |
| loquacities | thanks for this, i'll investigate further | 06:25 |
| loquacities | last i spoke to flwang he said they had all their jobs in, but was worried zaqar wouldn't get published with everything else | 06:26 |
| katomo | hm | 06:26 |
| AJaeger | it's up here: http://docs.openstack.org/project-install-guide/messaging/draft/ | 06:27 |
| AJaeger | We still need to implement the publishing logic to publish to /newton once a newton branch is created... | 06:27 |
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| loquacities | yeah, i told him we'd take care of that | 06:27 |
| katomo | yeah | 06:27 |
| AJaeger | My only known open action item on this ;) | 06:27 |
| loquacities | lol | 06:27 |
| loquacities | that and the automated testing, but that can be held over :P | 06:28 |
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| AJaeger | automated testing is for dbite ... | 06:29 |
| loquacities | heh | 06:29 |
| loquacities | i'll let you two argue over that :P | 06:29 |
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| dbite | Awesome :) | 06:29 |
| katomo | :) | 06:29 |
| loquacities | ok, cool | 06:30 |
| loquacities | shall we call it done? | 06:30 |
| dbite | AJaeger: Taking a look at the work items. | 06:30 |
| dbite | loquacities: Its not done | 06:30 |
| AJaeger | no need to argue - I won't have time to do it. I discussed a bit with dbite and will continue if needed but cannot do anything myself | 06:30 |
| loquacities | oh, i meant the meeting, not the automation ;) | 06:30 |
| AJaeger | ;) | 06:30 |
| loquacities | AJaeger: ok, cool | 06:30 |
| dbite | loquacities: lol, yes. | 06:30 |
| loquacities | i know the automation isn't done yet ;) | 06:31 |
| loquacities | anything else? | 06:31 |
| dbite | loquacities: Yes it is partially done on my private repository | 06:31 |
| loquacities | ah, excellent :) | 06:32 |
| dbite | trying to get it completed. | 06:32 |
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| loquacities | well, best of luck | 06:32 |
| dbite | thanks | 06:32 |
| AJaeger | loquacities: do we need to update the basis guide for Newton? Do you know what needs to be done? Hope that's on the agenda for the future... | 06:32 |
| loquacities | i want to engage the packagers and the CPLs | 06:33 |
| loquacities | to work out what we need to do before we begin testing | 06:33 |
| loquacities | so yes, definitely on the agenda, but i don't yet know what needs to be done | 06:34 |
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| loquacities | ok, we're out of time here | 06:37 |
| loquacities | any other items? | 06:37 |
| AJaeger | none from my side | 06:37 |
| katomo | nothing from me | 06:37 |
| loquacities | ok, cool | 06:37 |
| loquacities | thanks guys :) | 06:37 |
| dbite | im good | 06:37 |
| loquacities | #endmeeting | 06:37 |
| katomo | thanks, all | 06:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 06:37 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 2 06:37:36 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 06:37 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docinstallteam/2016/docinstallteam.2016-08-02-06.06.html | 06:37 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docinstallteam/2016/docinstallteam.2016-08-02-06.06.txt | 06:37 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docinstallteam/2016/docinstallteam.2016-08-02-06.06.log.html | 06:37 |
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| saggi | #startmeeting smaug | 09:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 2 09:00:34 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is saggi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 09:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 09:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: smaug)" | 09:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'smaug' | 09:00 |
| saggi | Hi everyone | 09:00 |
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| xiangxinyong | hello | 09:00 |
| zhonghua-lee | hi | 09:00 |
| yuval | hey | 09:01 |
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| saggi | Are we waiting on anyone? yiwei, chenzeng, etc | 09:02 |
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| yuval | chenzeng should be here, he wanted to discuss his suggestion | 09:03 |
| chenying | yinwei is off the office today. | 09:03 |
| zengchen | yuval:yes | 09:03 |
| saggi | Do you guys know where everyone is? | 09:03 |
| xiangxinyong | :) | 09:04 |
| zhonghua-lee | I am here :) | 09:04 |
| zengchen | yuval:as i descirbed on the launchpad, we may need to add a new executor | 09:04 |
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| saggi | OK let's start | 09:05 |
| saggi | #topic mascot selection | 09:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "mascot selection (Meeting topic: smaug)" | 09:05 | |
| saggi | We didn't get the koala mascot | 09:05 |
| saggi | Kolla won the coin toss | 09:05 |
| zengchen | saggi:i am online | 09:05 |
| zhonghua-lee | is there any option? | 09:05 |
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| saggi | Their name is also an alternative name for a Koala so they have the same claim on the animal. | 09:05 |
| chenying | we use Karbor as the name or voting a new name? | 09:06 |
| zhonghua-lee | so we have to pick another one? | 09:06 |
| saggi | We can change the name since we did not announce the name yet | 09:07 |
| saggi | We suggested a tardigrade http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap130306.html which is the most resilient animal on earth. | 09:07 |
| saggi | Not as a name but a mascot | 09:07 |
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| zhonghua-lee | saggi:what's that? | 09:07 |
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| saggi | https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%BC%93%E6%AD%A5%E5%8A%A8%E7%89%A9%E9%97%A8 | 09:08 |
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| zhonghua-lee | looks good | 09:10 |
| zhonghua-lee | except looks like maggot | 09:10 |
| saggi | :) | 09:10 |
| zhonghua-lee | forgive me | 09:10 |
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| chenying | It looks fearsome. | 09:10 |
| saggi | That's the problem. It fits thematically but it not as cute. | 09:10 |
| yuval | imo it is quite cute | 09:11 |
| chenying | Can we pick another cute animal? | 09:11 |
| zhonghua-lee | :) | 09:11 |
| saggi | Yes | 09:11 |
| xiangxinyong | :( | 09:11 |
| saggi | But it needs to be somewhat related. | 09:11 |
| zhonghua-lee | can we use dragon? | 09:12 |
| saggi | They don't allow mythical animals. | 09:12 |
| zhonghua-lee | oj | 09:12 |
| zhonghua-lee | ok | 09:12 |
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| xiangxinyong | I guess this animal is from the mars | 09:12 |
| chenying | can we use panda? | 09:12 |
| xiangxinyong | :) | 09:12 |
| saggi | yuval: Where is the list of the taken mascots? | 09:13 |
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| yuval | https://www.openstack.org/project-mascots | 09:13 |
| yuval | they just added another batch of taken mascots | 09:13 |
| saggi | The problem with panda is that the name is to generic. | 09:13 |
| saggi | And that the WWF already uses it as a mascot | 09:14 |
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| xiangxinyong | what about the glass crab? | 09:14 |
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| xiangxinyong | http://image.baidu.com/search/detail?ct=503316480&z=0&ipn=d&word=glass%20crab&hs=0&pn=5&spn=0&di=25493893821&pi=&rn=1&tn=baiduimagedetail&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&cl=2&lm=-1&cs=1366933940%2C1128410029&os=3481574606%2C599075615&simid=0%2C0&adpicid=0&ln=30&fr=ala&fm=&sme=&cg=&bdtype=15&oriquery=&objurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpre01.deviantart.net%2F736a%2Fth%2Fpre%2Ff%2F2016%2F005%2F3%2F8%2Fglass_toon_crab_by_laticis-d9mu0k1.jpg&fromurl=ippr_z2C%24qAzdH3FA | 09:14 |
| xiangxinyong | zdH3Fg5pj_z%26e3Bpwwksj_z%26e3Bv54AzdH3Fr5fpAzdH3F8nC0AzdH3F4w6t3jkj6ptg2_z%26e3B1jetwgpw6p_z%26e3Bv54AzdH3Fw6pAzdH3FLwvj-Lw1y-cb8mn09an&gsm=0 | 09:14 |
| yuval | btw Quokka taken | 09:14 |
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| chenying | crab? | 09:15 |
| yizhihui | camel? | 09:15 |
| xiangxinyong | yizhihui: welcome to join the weekly meeting | 09:16 |
| yizhihui | :) | 09:16 |
| zhonghua-lee | camel, good idea | 09:16 |
| yizhihui | or Black Mamba | 09:16 |
| zhonghua-lee | ohh...no | 09:17 |
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| chenying | golden monkey | 09:18 |
| zhonghua-lee | I think we can not get the conclusion this time | 09:18 |
| saggi | Please send suggestions if you have any. | 09:18 |
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| xiangxinyong | I guess we can submit the mascot in this link. https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/smaugmascot | 09:18 |
| chenying | http://s15.sinaimg.cn/mw690/65d9d9a5tx6CFUsY8z4be&690 golden monkey | 09:19 |
| saggi | #topic Add a new executor for Operation Engine service | 09:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add a new executor for Operation Engine service (Meeting topic: smaug)" | 09:19 | |
| zhonghua-lee | saggi: +1 | 09:19 |
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| saggi | ping zengchen, this is your item | 09:20 |
| zhonghua-lee | https://bugs.launchpad.net/smaug/+bug/1608415 | 09:20 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1608415 in Smaug "Add a new executor for Operation Engine service" [High,Triaged] - Assigned to zengchen (chenzeng2) | 09:20 |
| chenying | It is better add the mascot with a picuter link. | 09:20 |
| zengchen | saggi: | 09:21 |
| tommylike_321 | monkey +1 | 09:21 |
| zengchen | saggi:ok | 09:21 |
| zengchen | do you have seen it. | 09:21 |
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| yuval | zengchen: sounds like a good idea | 09:21 |
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| saggi | zengchen: It's a great idea | 09:22 |
| saggi | Looks simple enough to implement | 09:22 |
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| saggi | and have it retrofitted so we don't need the threaded one | 09:22 |
| zengchen | yuval:ok, if you all agree with it, i will try to implement it. | 09:22 |
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| saggi | zengchen: will it come instead of the threaded one | 09:23 |
| saggi | ? | 09:23 |
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| zengchen | saggi:we can keep the thead, because we can set the config to choose which to be used. | 09:23 |
| zhonghua-lee | is it a addition or default? | 09:23 |
| zengchen | zhonghua-lee:i suggest to be default. | 09:24 |
| saggi | isn't the green thread one more powerful. Why would you want the threaded one? | 09:24 |
| zhonghua-lee | zengchen: thanks | 09:24 |
| chenying | I only care about the executor whether meet all the test scene of engine. | 09:24 |
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| zengchen | saggi:you mean delete the codes of thread? | 09:25 |
| saggi | yes | 09:25 |
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| zengchen | saggi:i suggest to wait a time. when the new executor runs, we can try to delete it. | 09:26 |
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| zhangshuai_ | +1 | 09:26 |
| saggi | zengchen: OK, but I'd rather not have a lot of code goes unused. | 09:26 |
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| zengchen | saggi:ok, i will keep the codes clean. | 09:27 |
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| saggi | # topic Scheduled Operation Improvements Proposal | 09:27 |
| saggi | ping xiangxinyong | 09:27 |
| xiangxinyong | hello saggi | 09:27 |
| xiangxinyong | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/scheduledoperation | 09:28 |
| xiangxinyong | could you take a look at this link? | 09:28 |
| saggi | I already did | 09:28 |
| xiangxinyong | thanks | 09:28 |
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| gsagie | So what is Smaug mascot? | 09:28 |
| gsagie | Chenying? | 09:28 |
| xiangxinyong | saggi:what do you think about it? | 09:29 |
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| chenying | We will add the suggested mascot to the link. | 09:29 |
| saggi | It's fine by me as long as you can set retention time and max checkpoint to be infinite | 09:29 |
| chenying | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/smaugmascot | 09:29 |
| zhonghua-lee | I think it's reasonable to add the description | 09:29 |
| saggi | gsagie: We already selected a mascot: https://media.licdn.com/media/p/2/000/18e/3dd/1d99b9c.jpg | 09:30 |
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| xiangxinyong | yeah. i need to add description into scheduled operation | 09:30 |
| yuval | saggi: :P: | 09:30 |
| zengchen | xingxinyong:+1 | 09:30 |
| zhangshuai_ | xiangxinuong:+1 | 09:31 |
| saggi | xiangxinyong: +1 | 09:31 |
| saggi | The rest can be added if they are optional | 09:31 |
| xiangxinyong | saggi: about retention_duration and max_backups | 09:31 |
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| chenying | add description into scheduled operation--- I also think add the description filed to other resources. like plan resotre | 09:31 |
| xiangxinyong | yeah. description is optinal | 09:31 |
| zhonghua-lee | chenying:+1 | 09:32 |
| saggi | chenying: Also retention and max_backups | 09:32 |
| saggi | xiangxinyong: | 09:32 |
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| saggi | should be optional | 09:32 |
| chenying | name and description field have different meaning. | 09:32 |
| saggi | xiangxinyong: I think we are all in agreement that these are good additions as long as they are optional. | 09:33 |
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| chenying | yes it is optional | 09:33 |
| xiangxinyong | understood. | 09:33 |
| saggi | Is retention time per checkpoint? | 09:33 |
| xiangxinyong | but how to implement max_backups and retention_duration for scheduled operation? | 09:33 |
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| xiangxinyong | do you have some suggestions? | 09:33 |
| zhonghua-lee | add new Operation? | 09:34 |
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| saggi | You run the operation periodically looking for checkpoints that you created that are older than duration. | 09:34 |
| saggi | You will need to keep record of all created checkpoints in the operation db since querying the bank is slow. | 09:34 |
| yuval | I don't understand: if I manually create a checkpoint, and then later a scheduled operation is defined with max_backups, it may delete my checkpoint? | 09:35 |
| saggi | If it was created by this operation | 09:35 |
| xiangxinyong | I guess we need to launch a delete checkpoint request from the operation engine service | 09:35 |
| zhonghua-lee | saggi: who will trigger this operation? Operation engine? | 09:35 |
| saggi | yes | 09:35 |
| saggi | Since it's policy | 09:36 |
| xiangxinyong | I guess operation engine service will trigger | 09:36 |
| chenying | all retention time and max backups are the parameters of policys. | 09:36 |
| xiangxinyong | OK. I will write a spec about this features | 09:37 |
| xiangxinyong | thanks guys | 09:38 |
| zhonghua-lee | xiangxinyong:+1 | 09:38 |
| chenying | xiangxinyong:+1 need a spec about these parameters. | 09:38 |
| zhonghua-lee | xiangxinyong: some guys may want to know the detaild flow | 09:38 |
| yuval | How will the scheduled operation find all the checkpoints? | 09:38 |
| yuval | originated from it? | 09:38 |
| chenying | call the list checkpoint api | 09:38 |
| xiangxinyong | chengying:+1 | 09:39 |
| saggi | yuval: When it creates the checkpoint it will need to keep the ID returned | 09:39 |
| yuval | chenying: and list ALL checkpoints? | 09:39 |
| yuval | chenying: we don't have filter on metadata | 09:39 |
| yuval | saggi: keep where? | 09:39 |
| saggi | operation engine db | 09:39 |
| xiangxinyong | yuval: but i guess we filter it by plan | 09:39 |
| saggi | Since it's local | 09:39 |
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| chenying | make sure we have save the checkpoint id to the operation engine db | 09:40 |
| chenying | not the operation engine db some operation db table. | 09:40 |
| zhonghua-lee | xiangxinyong: do you consider the use case: user can create it manually | 09:40 |
| zengchen | i suggest xiangxinyong give a complete desgin. | 09:41 |
| saggi | Don't design anything that filters the checkpoints. It won't scale until we decide on a querying mechanism. This will only happen for P-version, not Newton. | 09:41 |
| saggi | zengchen: +1 | 09:41 |
| xiangxinyong | zhonghua-lee: yeah. The requirement is only about the scheduled protection | 09:41 |
| xiangxinyong | OK.guys. I will specify a spec about this feature | 09:42 |
| zhonghua-lee | xiangxinyong: so it is just a policy, not for the protection resource | 09:42 |
| saggi | #action xiangxinyong write a BP on advance backup policy | 09:42 |
| saggi | #topic Volume OPTIONS_SCHEMA Improvements Proposal | 09:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Volume OPTIONS_SCHEMA Improvements Proposal (Meeting topic: smaug)" | 09:42 | |
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| saggi | Don't Huawei implement this through Cinder Backup? | 09:43 |
| chenying | i note that SAVE_SCHEMA not being used when creat checkpoint data. | 09:43 |
| xiangxinyong | saggi: there is some differenece | 09:44 |
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| xiangxinyong | we could add emc volume plugin or eisoo volume plugin. | 09:44 |
| xiangxinyong | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/volumeschema | 09:45 |
| xiangxinyong | guys,please review it. thanks | 09:45 |
| saggi | xiangxinyong: I would like to have everything else in the reference implementation working perfectly before adding new protection plugins. | 09:45 |
| saggi | Also we need these to be tested as well | 09:45 |
| saggi | I the full stack tests | 09:45 |
| yuval | xiangxinyong: you want these to be added to the default cinder protection plugin? | 09:46 |
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| xiangxinyong | yuval: yeah. I want to add a new protection volume plugin | 09:47 |
| saggi | xiangxinyong: Id | 09:48 |
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| xiangxinyong | saggi:? | 09:48 |
| saggi | xiangxinyong: I'd rather wait with alternative plugins until we have everything we gurantee for v1 solid.. | 09:48 |
| zhonghua-lee | saggi:+1 | 09:49 |
| zhonghua-lee | saggi: do we accept other vendors to join us? | 09:49 |
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| xiangxinyong | saggi: good suggestions | 09:49 |
| saggi | zhonghua-lee: Sure, everyone is invited | 09:49 |
| zhonghua-lee | espacially the backup vendors | 09:50 |
| zhonghua-lee | saggi: :) | 09:50 |
| saggi | And if they spend the time on their plugins it's OK. But we, as the core team, should concentrate on the core for now. | 09:50 |
| chenying | I think verdor can add their plugins. Like backup software verdor can add ther plugins. | 09:50 |
| saggi | We also need to take the Cinder route and only accept plugins with proper tests and CI | 09:50 |
| zhonghua-lee | saggi: OK | 09:51 |
| saggi | Otherwise we have to do all the testing ourselves, which doesn't scale. | 09:51 |
| zhonghua-lee | saggi:+1 | 09:51 |
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| zhonghua-lee | according the conclusion, I think we prefer to delay this proposal | 09:52 |
| yizhihui | when will v1 solid? | 09:53 |
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| saggi | When N is stable hopefully | 09:53 |
| saggi | That the target | 09:53 |
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| zhonghua-lee | yizhihui: why you ask this question? | 09:54 |
| zhonghua-lee | yizhihui: do you have any plan to add your plug-in? | 09:54 |
| yizhihui | yes | 09:55 |
| saggi | If we get there sooner we can tag and start building v2. BTW, v2 roadmap will be discussed at Bacelona. | 09:55 |
| chenying | <yizhihui is from a backup software vendors. They plan to develop a new plugin about app backup. | 09:55 |
| zhonghua-lee | saggi: yizhihui: I guess you can add it as you please | 09:56 |
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| saggi | roadmap is here https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/smaug | 09:56 |
| zhonghua-lee | saggi: what's your opinion? | 09:56 |
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| yizhihui | ok | 09:56 |
| saggi | zhonghua-lee: about what? | 09:56 |
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| zhonghua-lee | saggi: yizhihui is from 3rd backup vendor, he wants to add a plug-in into Smaug | 09:56 |
| zhonghua-lee | saggi: can he add it now? | 09:57 |
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| saggi | You can add anything to Ocata. it's just candidates | 09:57 |
| saggi | We will filter the list in Barcelona | 09:57 |
| zhonghua-lee | saggi:OK | 09:58 |
| saggi | We will accept 3rd party plugin code even now. But we can't gurantee it will ship as supported in N. | 09:59 |
| saggi | Also, it will require dedication as things are moving fast and breakage may oocure in the plugin interface before N. | 09:59 |
| yizhihui | saggi: I got it | 09:59 |
| zhonghua-lee | saggi: +1 | 09:59 |
| saggi | We are out of time | 10:00 |
| saggi | #topic open discussion | 10:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: smaug)" | 10:00 | |
| yuval | mascot? | 10:00 |
| saggi | any last words? | 10:00 |
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| saggi | Thank you everybody | 10:01 |
| xiangxinyong | Thanks | 10:01 |
| zhonghua-lee | thanks | 10:01 |
| xiangxinyong | good bye | 10:01 |
| saggi | yizhihui: Hope to see you next time as well | 10:01 |
| saggi | :) | 10:01 |
| saggi | #endmeeting | 10:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 10:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 2 10:01:23 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 10:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/smaug/2016/smaug.2016-08-02-09.00.html | 10:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/smaug/2016/smaug.2016-08-02-09.00.txt | 10:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/smaug/2016/smaug.2016-08-02-09.00.log.html | 10:01 |
| yizhihui | :) | 10:01 |
| yizhihui | I | 10:01 |
| yizhihui | I'd like to | 10:01 |
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| Qiming | #startmeeting senlin | 13:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 2 13:00:36 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'senlin' | 13:00 |
| Qiming | hello | 13:00 |
| lixinhui_ | hi | 13:01 |
| haiwei_ | hi | 13:01 |
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| Qiming | evening, xinhui, haiwei | 13:01 |
| yanyanhu | hi | 13:01 |
| yanyanhu | sorry I'm late | 13:01 |
| Qiming | hi, yanyan | 13:01 |
| Qiming | np | 13:01 |
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| Qiming | pls review agenda and see if you got items to add | 13:02 |
| Qiming | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda#Weekly_Senlin_.28Clustering.29_meeting | 13:02 |
| Qiming | first item, newton work items | 13:02 |
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| Qiming | #topic newton work items | 13:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "newton work items (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:02 | |
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| Qiming | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-newton-workitems | 13:02 |
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| Qiming | updates ? | 13:03 |
| yanyanhu | rally plugin | 13:03 |
| yanyanhu | the patch for rally side is still in progress, will check and fix latest issues tomorrow morning | 13:04 |
| yanyanhu | hope can finish it soon | 13:04 |
| Qiming | okay, just got some comments from Roman ... | 13:04 |
| yanyanhu | for senlin repo, plugin for cluster scaling has been proposed | 13:04 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes | 13:04 |
| yanyanhu | need quick fix and also some explanation | 13:05 |
| Qiming | okay | 13:05 |
| yanyanhu | https://review.openstack.org/346656 | 13:05 |
| Qiming | interesting ... we are still exposing 'parent' to client? | 13:05 |
| yanyanhu | the one for cluster scaling | 13:05 |
| yanyanhu | I guess there is still some out of date msg in doc? | 13:05 |
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| Qiming | okay, it has been hanging there for some days | 13:06 |
| yanyanhu | will check it and reply to roman | 13:06 |
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| Qiming | sounds great | 13:06 |
| yanyanhu | yes, hope can complete it soon | 13:06 |
| Qiming | maybe we can ask some helps from cmcc | 13:06 |
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| Qiming | don't know eldon can offer a hand | 13:06 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes, I think we can ask them for some use case reference | 13:07 |
| yanyanhu | for coding, it's ok for me since | 13:07 |
| Qiming | okay | 13:07 |
| yanyanhu | there is no critical issue left I feel | 13:07 |
| yanyanhu | anyway, will keep working on it | 13:07 |
| Qiming | anything else in this space? | 13:07 |
| yanyanhu | nope I think | 13:08 |
| Qiming | moving on | 13:08 |
| lixinhui_ | About Fencing | 13:08 |
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| Qiming | health management, no progress from my side last week | 13:08 |
| lixinhui_ | I add some points on Qiming's HA etherpad | 13:08 |
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| lixinhui_ | First step is to target fencing nova compute service | 13:09 |
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| lixinhui_ | Second step is fencing of vm | 13:09 |
| lixinhui_ | for compute service fencing | 13:09 |
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| lixinhui_ | which should happen when some host failure happens | 13:10 |
| Qiming | that is actually abouf fencing a nova compute node, correct? | 13:10 |
| Qiming | yep | 13:10 |
| lixinhui_ | Yes, Qiming | 13:10 |
| Qiming | I don't have a multi-node setup at hand | 13:10 |
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| Qiming | cannot produce a compute node failure to observe the host failure events | 13:10 |
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| lixinhui_ | So I wonder if proper to add this into healthmonitor | 13:10 |
| lixinhui_ | Qiming | 13:11 |
| Qiming | have you got any hints on that? either by digging into the source or doc or thru experimentation? | 13:11 |
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| lixinhui_ | compute node failure can only be known by polling service status | 13:11 |
| Qiming | observing host failure could only be done thru events | 13:11 |
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| lixinhui_ | Actually | 13:12 |
| Qiming | I'm a little reluctant to poll nova compute services | 13:12 |
| lixinhui_ | Nova today use heartbeat to know if host is alive or not | 13:12 |
| Qiming | that is their internals | 13:12 |
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| Qiming | we are not supposed to peek into that | 13:12 |
| lixinhui_ | There are only two types of event for nova to notice | 13:13 |
| lixinhui_ | one if the node.update | 13:13 |
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| lixinhui_ | the other is service.update | 13:13 |
| Qiming | IIRC, nova has event reports when a host fails | 13:13 |
| Qiming | okay, then we can listen to those events | 13:14 |
| lixinhui_ | Service.update can be sent only when the change happen on the nova services by nova service* | 13:14 |
| Qiming | don't understand | 13:14 |
| lixinhui_ | you can read the code of nova/objects/service | 13:15 |
| lixinhui_ | .py | 13:15 |
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| Qiming | can you pls just explain your last sentence? | 13:15 |
| lixinhui_ | my experiments proove this | 13:15 |
| lixinhui_ | that means the up or down of nova services will be changes based on heatbeat without notice | 13:16 |
| lixinhui_ | but service.update will be sent when I enable or disable some serivce | 13:16 |
| Qiming | okay, those are the nova internal state maintenance, we cannot check it from outside | 13:16 |
| lixinhui_ | so | 13:17 |
| Qiming | if nova-compute is down, no event notification is sent? | 13:17 |
| lixinhui_ | no | 13:17 |
| lixinhui_ | after two cycle | 13:17 |
| lixinhui_ | the serivce becomes down | 13:17 |
| lixinhui_ | that is all | 13:17 |
| lixinhui_ | after detection that, we can fencing the compute | 13:18 |
| Qiming | good/bad to know ... | 13:18 |
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| Qiming | sounds like the only way for failure detection is polling? | 13:18 |
| Qiming | need to double check that | 13:18 |
| Qiming | that was my understanding | 13:19 |
| lixinhui_ | or read the status of nova service | 13:19 |
| Qiming | but last time in a mailinglist discussion, I raised this question | 13:19 |
| lixinhui_ | that would be good if you can double check | 13:19 |
| Qiming | someone told me that nova is already capable of sending out notifications when a compute service is down | 13:19 |
| Qiming | I hope I have ten heads | 13:20 |
| Qiming | need to dig that email | 13:20 |
| Qiming | or the source code | 13:20 |
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| Qiming | #action Qiming to double check nova's capability of notifying host down | 13:21 |
| lixinhui_ | they indeed add some notices | 13:21 |
| Qiming | moving on | 13:21 |
| lixinhui_ | nova/nova/objects/service.py | 13:21 |
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| Qiming | documentation side | 13:21 |
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| Qiming | added some user references docs last week | 13:21 |
| Qiming | mainly a reorg around auto-scaling, receivers ... etc | 13:21 |
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| Qiming | I was thinking of adding a tutorial about auto-scaling, but later I realized that is a huge topic, not suitable for a tutorial, which is supposed to be pretty short | 13:22 |
| Qiming | I have also moved the heat based autoscaling under a scenarios subdirectory | 13:23 |
| Qiming | where in future we can add more scenarios for references | 13:23 |
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| Qiming | will check if tutorial doc can be left there ... | 13:24 |
| Qiming | next ... | 13:24 |
| Qiming | yanyan just started adding version control to profile and policy specs | 13:24 |
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| Qiming | this is necessary, pls help review | 13:24 |
| yanyanhu | yes, just proposed the first patch https://review.openstack.org/348709 | 13:24 |
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| Qiming | thanks | 13:25 |
| yanyanhu | to add version support to schema and spec | 13:25 |
| Qiming | in parallel, I'm looking into oslo.versionedobjects for a more wholistic solution | 13:25 |
| Qiming | will update later | 13:25 |
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| Qiming | moving on ... | 13:25 |
| yanyanhu | my pleasure. Really need some discussion about this topic | 13:25 |
| Qiming | container profile support | 13:25 |
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| Qiming | haiwei just pushed a commit: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/349906 | 13:26 |
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| haiwei_ | yes, Qiming | 13:27 |
| Qiming | I haven't got time to review | 13:27 |
| haiwei_ | I only tested it partly | 13:27 |
| Qiming | just a quick glance | 13:27 |
| Qiming | team, please take a look at it and help polish it when you got cycles | 13:27 |
| yanyanhu | sure, will check it | 13:28 |
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| Qiming | thx | 13:28 |
| Qiming | moving on | 13:28 |
| haiwei_ | I think the point for that patch is where should we store 'host_node' uuid? in that patch I stored it in the metadata of profile | 13:28 |
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| Qiming | maybe node.data ? | 13:29 |
| Qiming | if you check other policy decisions such as zone placement, region placement ... | 13:29 |
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| haiwei_ | ok, I will think about it | 13:29 |
| Qiming | we are injecting data into the 'data' field of the node (abstract one) | 13:29 |
| Qiming | then when we are about to create the physical resource, we extract those policy decisions | 13:30 |
| Qiming | profile metadata was designed for users to use | 13:30 |
| haiwei_ | in service layer we got host_node, but it is not the server's id, so we need to pass server's id to profile | 13:30 |
| Qiming | e.g. {'author': 'haiwei', 'last-updated': '2016-08-02', ... } etc | 13:31 |
| Qiming | we can pass those information in node.data field | 13:31 |
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| haiwei_ | I will check it later | 13:31 |
| Qiming | the node.data field was designed to carry those data around | 13:31 |
| Qiming | great | 13:31 |
| Qiming | pls also think if we can move the policy decision out into a policy type | 13:32 |
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| Qiming | 1. that will make the engine code cleaner; 2. we could later improve/replace that policy type implementation easily | 13:33 |
| haiwei_ | what policy decision? | 13:33 |
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| haiwei_ | currently I am thinking about node_create | 13:33 |
| Qiming | by "policy decision" I mean the selection of node in a hosting cluster | 13:33 |
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| Qiming | just something to keep in mind, I'm not sure how feasible it is without digging into the code | 13:34 |
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| haiwei_ | ok | 13:34 |
| Qiming | great, moving on | 13:34 |
| Qiming | zaqar based receiver | 13:34 |
| Qiming | yanyan has been busy working on that ... | 13:35 |
| yanyanhu | yes, have confirmed with zaqar team again about the usage of "project_id" and "client_id" today | 13:35 |
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| yanyanhu | just as you said, we should expose them out for invoker of sdk proxy call | 13:35 |
| yanyanhu | have post the latest result in the follow patches: * https://review.openstack.org/349369 | 13:36 |
| yanyanhu | * https://review.openstack.org/338041 | 13:36 |
| Qiming | okay, the thing to bear in mind is ... | 13:36 |
| Qiming | if you put 'client_id = Header('Client-ID') in that Message class | 13:37 |
| Qiming | the header still won't appear in the final request ... | 13:37 |
| Qiming | that is something I missed when reviewing your last patch | 13:37 |
| yanyanhu | overriding resource calls will make it take effect I think? | 13:38 |
| Qiming | so ... your way of overriding those methods are still valid, though there are rooms for improvement | 13:38 |
| Qiming | yes | 13:38 |
| yanyanhu | like the latest patch does | 13:38 |
| yanyanhu | yes | 13:38 |
| yanyanhu | really not graceful way | 13:38 |
| Qiming | it is ugly, but ... you know, people need time to understand the issue we are facing | 13:38 |
| yanyanhu | yea | 13:38 |
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| Qiming | we should allow custom headers in all those create, get, list calls | 13:39 |
| yanyanhu | hope brian can figure it out when building resource2 | 13:39 |
| yanyanhu | using better way | 13:39 |
| yanyanhu | yes | 13:39 |
| Qiming | resource2 is already there ... | 13:39 |
| yanyanhu | if so, that will be much better | 13:39 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, it still needs some improvement I think | 13:39 |
| Qiming | but he doesn't seem buy in the idea of adding more parameters | 13:39 |
| yanyanhu | for those "corner" use cases | 13:40 |
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| Qiming | thanks for keeping the balls rolling | 13:40 |
| Qiming | will review your new patchset tomorrow | 13:40 |
| yanyanhu | thanks a lot | 13:40 |
| Qiming | moving on | 13:40 |
| Qiming | events/notifications | 13:40 |
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| Qiming | no update from me in this space | 13:40 |
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| Qiming | actually I was trapped in a more general issue .... versioning of things | 13:41 |
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| Qiming | okay, next topic | 13:41 |
| Qiming | #topic newton deliverables | 13:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "newton deliverables (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:41 | |
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| Qiming | though I've been digging into the issue of versioning of things, I don't think we can get it done by this cycle | 13:42 |
| Qiming | on the other hand, the new features about cluster-collect and cluster-do will have to base on micro-version support | 13:43 |
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| Qiming | which is also blocked here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/343992/ | 13:43 |
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| Qiming | still need time to convince brian that the current patch is already okay | 13:43 |
| yanyanhu | this part is really complicated... | 13:44 |
| Qiming | the overall design and impl is good, there are some trivial coding style things for communication | 13:44 |
| Qiming | health policy implementation ... | 13:44 |
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| Qiming | I do hope we can deliver a basic, working version by this cycle | 13:45 |
| yanyanhu | sure | 13:45 |
| Qiming | as for container cluster | 13:45 |
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| yanyanhu | really need to achieve that goal I feel | 13:45 |
| Qiming | it would be GREAT we can have a basic, working version | 13:45 |
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| Qiming | yes, people are asking questions on that | 13:45 |
| haiwei_ | yes | 13:46 |
| Qiming | let's keep working hard on this | 13:46 |
| Qiming | s/this/these | 13:46 |
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| Qiming | next topic I added is about versioned objects | 13:46 |
| Qiming | when adding new properties to policy (e.g. the lb policy revision lately) | 13:46 |
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| Qiming | we need to bump policy version | 13:47 |
| Qiming | so ... we have a lot of things to be versioned | 13:47 |
| Qiming | 1. API micro-version | 13:47 |
| Qiming | 2. API request body version | 13:47 |
| Qiming | 3. API response version | 13:47 |
| Qiming | 4. RPC version | 13:47 |
| Qiming | 5. DB object version | 13:48 |
| Qiming | 6. Event/Notification version | 13:48 |
| Qiming | 7, Policy type version | 13:48 |
| Qiming | 8. Profile type version | 13:48 |
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| Qiming | 9. Receiver version | 13:48 |
| Qiming | without proper versioning infra at hand, we will quickly loose control of things | 13:49 |
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| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes, almost every elements that could vary over time | 13:49 |
| Qiming | and things will break in a thousand ways | 13:49 |
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| Qiming | so... I'm investigating oslo.versionedobjects, every single line of code there | 13:49 |
| Qiming | and also jsonschema doc/implementation | 13:49 |
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| Qiming | I think I have got a rough idea on how to unify all object versioning into the same framework | 13:50 |
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| Qiming | but that warrants a lot of experimentation and code churn | 13:50 |
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| Qiming | will leave that as a long term work, maybe by end of Ocata we will have this framework completely landed | 13:51 |
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| Qiming | ideally, after that, when you want to add a new property to an existing resource | 13:51 |
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| Qiming | you won't need to modify a few hundred lines of code while still worrying about breaking existing users | 13:52 |
| yanyanhu | great, we can add version support for different elements gradually I think | 13:52 |
| Qiming | some preliminary code have proved the feasibility of this | 13:52 |
| Qiming | we can even make the api-ref documentation generated out of these objects | 13:53 |
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| yanyanhu | start from most basic part and keep it in mind when making changes on those "unversioned" stuff | 13:53 |
| Qiming | yep | 13:53 |
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| Qiming | so that is my update in this thread | 13:53 |
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| Qiming | I didn't leave any time for questions/comments | 13:54 |
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| Qiming | #topic open discussion | 13:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:54 | |
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| yanyanhu | no problem, will check the code :) | 13:54 |
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| yanyanhu | voting is open now :) | 13:54 |
| yanyanhu | good luck for senlin's topic | 13:54 |
| yanyanhu | topic(s) | 13:54 |
| Qiming | yup | 13:55 |
| Qiming | blessing | 13:55 |
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| Qiming | this is a very strange document to read ... http://json-schema.org/latest/json-schema-validation.html | 13:55 |
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| yanyanhu | yes... | 13:55 |
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| Qiming | and that is their most comprehensive one I guess .... :) | 13:56 |
| namnh | Hi | 13:56 |
| yanyanhu | really hope we are native eng speaker :) | 13:56 |
| Qiming | hi, namnh | 13:56 |
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| Qiming | anything else? | 13:57 |
| yanyanhu | nope from me | 13:57 |
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| Qiming | seems lixinhui has dropped | 13:58 |
| yanyanhu | yea | 13:58 |
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| yanyanhu | will over time soon | 13:58 |
| Qiming | but anyway I will look into the nova code | 13:58 |
| Qiming | thanks, guys | 13:59 |
| Qiming | let's meet next week | 13:59 |
| yanyanhu | thanks, have a good night | 13:59 |
| Qiming | #endmeeting | 13:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:59 | |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 2 13:59:28 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-08-02-13.00.html | 13:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-08-02-13.00.txt | 13:59 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-08-02-13.00.log.html | 13:59 |
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| HenryG | Hello neutrinos | 13:59 |
| mlavalle | o/ | 14:00 |
| HenryG | #startmeeting networking | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 2 14:00:01 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is HenryG. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking' | 14:00 |
| manjeets_ | hi | 14:00 |
| haleyb | hi | 14:00 |
| john-davidge | hi | 14:00 |
| hichihara | hi | 14:00 |
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| hoangcx | Hi | 14:00 |
| korzen | hello | 14:00 |
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| dasm | o/ | 14:00 |
| ajo | o/ :) | 14:00 |
| amotoki | o/ | 14:00 |
| njohnston | o/ | 14:00 |
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| Sam-I-Am | hello | 14:01 |
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| HenryG | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings | 14:01 |
| HenryG | #topic Announcements | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:01 | |
| yottatsa | o/ | 14:02 |
| HenryG | The midcycle is approaching | 14:02 |
| HenryG | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-neutron-midcycle | 14:02 |
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| Sam-I-Am | i'll be missing it :/ | 14:02 |
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| annp | Hi | 14:02 |
| HenryG | We have a comprehensive list of workitems | 14:02 |
| HenryG | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-neutron-midcycle-workitems | 14:03 |
| HenryG | Any other announcements? | 14:03 |
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| amotoki | I will announce the API reference cleanup sprint soon. | 14:03 |
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| amotoki | please check my email on the dev list. in the meeting last week we decided to start it this week, | 14:04 |
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| HenryG | Looking forward to it amotoki, thanks. | 14:04 |
| amotoki | but the preparation took time more than what I expected :-( | 14:04 |
| HenryG | No problem. We appreciate the effort. | 14:05 |
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| HenryG | #topic Blueprints | 14:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:06 | |
| HenryG | #link https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/newton-3 | 14:06 |
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| HenryG | A reminder to keep your progress up to date in the BP whiteboards | 14:06 |
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| HenryG | I think the Keystone V3 (tenant_id rename to project_id) patch will merge this week and it could be quite disruptive. | 14:09 |
| HenryG | Please pay close attention. Especially if you maintain a sub-project. | 14:09 |
| HenryG | #topic Bugs | 14:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:09 | |
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| HenryG | electrocucaracha was deputy? | 14:10 |
| jlibosva | I was | 14:10 |
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| HenryG | Sorry electrocucaracha is this week | 14:10 |
| mlavalle | I think electrocucaracha is this week | 14:10 |
| HenryG | Anything to report jlibosva | 14:10 |
| jlibosva | yep | 14:11 |
| HenryG | ? | 14:11 |
| jlibosva | so we had two bugs as gate-failures: one broke tempest fwaas - https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1607625 - is fixed by now | 14:11 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1607625 in neutron "gate-neutron-fwaas-dsvm-tempest is not working properly" [Critical,Fix released] - Assigned to YAMAMOTO Takashi (yamamoto) | 14:11 |
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| jlibosva | second didn't occur that often - https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1607412 - also fixed by now | 14:11 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1607412 in neutron "gate-grenade-dsvm-neutron-multinode fails server build on newton side with "Unrecognized attribute(s) 'dns_name'"" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Miguel Lavalle (minsel) | 14:11 |
| mlavalle | For this one, the fix is close to merge | 14:12 |
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| jlibosva | we have a critical bug that appeared after switching to native of_interface - https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1607787 | 14:12 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1607787 in neutron "Missing secure fail mode on physical bridges" [Critical,In progress] - Assigned to Hynek Mlnarik (hmlnarik-s) | 14:12 |
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| hynekm | It seems that native ofctl interface does not work properly under high load, ovs loses connection with the ryu controller and that leads to interruption of network traffic. It seems that there is setting secure fail mode missing on phys bridges, but something more than it might be an issue. Under investigation currently. | 14:12 |
| jlibosva | it breaks l2 connectivity via phys bridges in case of ovs agent restarts or when node is under heavy load | 14:13 |
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| jlibosva | the work in progress for that last one can be found here: https://review.openstack.org/348889 | 14:13 |
| jlibosva | HenryG: that's all from my side | 14:14 |
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| HenryG | Thanks jlibosva | 14:14 |
| HenryG | Any other bugs to highlight from anyone else? | 14:15 |
| mlavalle | jlibosva, HenryG: for 1607412, we need a final nudge for the fix: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/349214/ | 14:15 |
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| jlibosva | good point, sorry I marked it as fixed :) backport is crucial | 14:15 |
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| HenryG | Who wants to volunteer for bug deputy next week? | 14:16 |
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| john-davidge | I can do it if there are no other volunteers | 14:17 |
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| HenryG | Thanks john-davidge !! | 14:17 |
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| john-davidge | HenryG: No worries :) | 14:17 |
| HenryG | #action john-davidge bug deputy for the week of August 8th | 14:18 |
| dasm | should we also find someone for mid-cycle week? | 14:18 |
| dasm | or leave it to armax? :) | 14:18 |
| amotoki | john-davidge: thanks for volunteer twice these two months! | 14:18 |
| HenryG | Anyone can volunteer at any time. Just add your name to the table in https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings | 14:19 |
| john-davidge | HenryG: Actually, I think I have to un-volunteer myself :( I have a wedding to go to next week | 14:19 |
| HenryG | #undo | 14:19 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Action object at 0x7f5bc0020550> | 14:19 |
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| john-davidge | HenryG: Sorry to get your hopes up!! :( | 14:19 |
| HenryG | john-davidge: no problem, weddings are important too :) | 14:20 |
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| john-davidge | If there's anything reading this wondering if they should volunteer for the first time, do it! It's a great learning experience :) | 14:20 |
| john-davidge | *anyone | 14:20 |
| njohnston | I'll do it next week | 14:20 |
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| mlavalle | and there's plenty of help around | 14:20 |
| HenryG | njohnston: No weddings next week? ;) | 14:21 |
| HenryG | njohnston: Thanks! | 14:21 |
| HenryG | #action njohnston bug deputy for the week of August 8th | 14:21 |
| * regXboi likes the idea of anything being the bug deputy for a week | 14:21 | |
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| john-davidge | regXboi: BugDeputyBot? I think that would be very popular... | 14:22 |
| regXboi | it very well could be ... | 14:22 |
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| HenryG | Somehow I don't think a bot would be good at this. | 14:22 |
| HenryG | Moving on... | 14:22 |
| HenryG | #topic Docs | 14:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:23 | |
| HenryG | We already touched on the upcoming api-ref sprint | 14:23 |
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| Sam-I-Am | moo. | 14:24 |
| Sam-I-Am | couple patches to the networking guide in review | 14:24 |
| Sam-I-Am | other than that, i'm trying to work on updates to the config scenarios | 14:24 |
| Sam-I-Am | for those of you who missed it, the reorg patch merged | 14:25 |
| HenryG | Sam-I-Am: Thanks. Do you have the review links handy? | 14:25 |
| Sam-I-Am | now it might be backported, so the mitaka guide has better organizaion | 14:25 |
| Sam-I-Am | no, i dont | 14:25 |
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| amotoki | handy review links https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/openstack-manuals+path:%255Edoc/networking-guide/.* | 14:25 |
| HenryG | amotoki: nice! | 14:25 |
| HenryG | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/openstack-manuals+path:%255Edoc/networking-guide/.* | 14:26 |
| Sam-I-Am | thats one way to do it | 14:26 |
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| HenryG | #topic OSC | 14:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OSC (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:27 | |
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| HenryG | rtheis: Anything to report this week? | 14:27 |
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| rtheis | progress continues both on OSC network commands and OSC plugin in neutronclient | 14:28 |
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| rtheis | just one reminder | 14:28 |
| rtheis | when writing commands, please review https://github.com/openstack/python-openstackclient/blob/master/doc/source/commands.rst | 14:28 |
| amotoki | rtheis: according to https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/osc-neutron-support, it seems all planned network commands in OSC side has been implemented. | 14:29 |
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| rtheis | amotoki: no, the first pass of core command are done | 14:29 |
| rtheis | amotoki: there are several more to go and likely some missing options which we can handle separately too | 14:30 |
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| amotoki | rtheis: ah.. we need to see L.165 or after in the etherpad page | 14:30 |
| rtheis | yes | 14:30 |
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| HenryG | #link https://github.com/openstack/python-openstackclient/blob/master/doc/source/commands.rst | 14:30 |
| HenryG | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/osc-neutron-support | 14:30 |
| rtheis | addition OSC guidance for plugins is under https://github.com/openstack/python-openstackclient/tree/master/doc/source | 14:31 |
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| rtheis | that's it for now | 14:31 |
| HenryG | #link https://github.com/openstack/python-openstackclient/tree/master/doc/source | 14:31 |
| HenryG | Thanks rtheis, and amotoki | 14:31 |
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| rtheis | yw | 14:31 |
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| HenryG | #topic Open Discussion | 14:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:31 | |
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| yottatsa | Hi, I'd like to discuss rfe about CIDR updating | 14:32 |
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| yottatsa | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1605343 | 14:32 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1605343 in neutron "[rfe] update CIDR for subnet" [Wishlist,Triaged] - Assigned to Vladimir Eremin (yottatsa) | 14:32 |
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| HenryG | yottatsa: unless there is someone present who wants to chime in, I would suggest a discussion with carl_baldwin present | 14:34 |
| yottatsa | Ok, skip | 14:34 |
| HenryG | yottatsa: Let's try on Thursday at the drivers meeting | 14:35 |
| john-davidge | Perhaps an ML thread? I'd be interested to hear more about the use case | 14:35 |
| HenryG | An ML post would help, yes. | 14:35 |
| yottatsa | john-davidge HenryG I'll drop email in openstack-dev then and will be on Thursday | 14:35 |
| HenryG | yottatsa: great, sounds good | 14:35 |
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| HenryG | If there is nothing else, let's get back to real work. | 14:37 |
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| hichihara | nice | 14:37 |
| dasm | thanks o/ | 14:37 |
| HenryG | #endmeeting | 14:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:37 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 2 14:37:59 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:38 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2016/networking.2016-08-02-14.00.html | 14:38 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2016/networking.2016-08-02-14.00.txt | 14:38 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2016/networking.2016-08-02-14.00.log.html | 14:38 |
| manjeets_ | thanks | 14:38 |
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| jlibosva | bye | 14:38 |
| yamamoto | bye | 14:38 |
| amotoki | thanks | 14:38 |
| hichihara | bye | 14:38 |
| hoangcx | bye all | 14:38 |
| namnh__ | Bye | 14:38 |
| mlavalle | have a nice day | 14:38 |
| annp | Bye | 14:38 |
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| carl_baldwin | Hi | 15:00 |
| john-davidge | hi | 15:00 |
| mlavalle | o/ | 15:00 |
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| carl_baldwin | #startmeeting neutron_routed_networks | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 2 15:01:25 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is carl_baldwin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_routed_networks' | 15:01 |
| carl_baldwin | #topic Announcements | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)" | 15:01 | |
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| carl_baldwin | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/routed-provider-networks-notes | 15:01 |
| carl_baldwin | Standard announcements | 15:02 |
| carl_baldwin | Mid-cycle is just about two weeks away in Cork, Ireland. | 15:02 |
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| carl_baldwin | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-neutron-midcycle | 15:02 |
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| carl_baldwin | I'm going. | 15:03 |
| mlavalle | me too and john-davidge too | 15:03 |
| carl_baldwin | We have just four weeks left until Newton-3 | 15:03 |
| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: john-davidge: it will be great to see you there. | 15:03 |
| carl_baldwin | #link http://releases.openstack.org/newton/schedule.html | 15:03 |
| carl_baldwin | Any other announcements? | 15:04 |
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| carl_baldwin | #topic Reviews | 15:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reviews (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)" | 15:05 | |
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| carl_baldwin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:bp/routed-networks | 15:05 |
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| carl_baldwin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:bp/neutron-routed-networks | 15:06 |
| carl_baldwin | ^ these are the Nova ones. | 15:06 |
| carl_baldwin | I think we've done a pretty good job of whittling these down. | 15:06 |
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| carl_baldwin | It is great to see that the deferred IP port one in Nova has just been approved. | 15:07 |
| mlavalle | ++ | 15:07 |
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| * blogan sneaks in late | 15:07 | |
| mlavalle | bad blogan | 15:08 |
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| carl_baldwin | Many thanks to the Nova team, especially johnthetubaguy and mriedem for all their help getting this through. | 15:08 |
| carl_baldwin | We will continue to refine this Nova / Neutron interaction but this is a big step just to be sure that we can used deferred IP ports. | 15:08 |
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| mriedem | \o/ | 15:09 |
| carl_baldwin | We should include this too. | 15:09 |
| carl_baldwin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:bp/service-subnets | 15:09 |
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| mlavalle | yeap | 15:09 |
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| john-davidge | carl_baldwin: Thanks, the main CRUD patch is in good shape. I'll be ready to push the follow-up for review very soon | 15:10 |
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| carl_baldwin | john-davidge: great. I look forward to reviewing that. Make sure to ping me when it is up for review. | 15:10 |
| john-davidge | carl_baldwin: Will do. Expect it by the end of today or early tomorow | 15:11 |
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| john-davidge | carl_baldwin: Great news on the update from armax! Thanks | 15:12 |
| carl_baldwin | xiaohhui: you around? I see you're making some progress on your patches. I hope you're settling in to your new position comfortably. | 15:13 |
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| xiaohhui | yeah | 15:13 |
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| xiaohhui | I did a rebase to the patch | 15:13 |
| xiaohhui | Thanks | 15:13 |
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| carl_baldwin | I'd like to get https://review.openstack.org/#/c/317358/ wrapped up. What do you think we need there/ | 15:14 |
| carl_baldwin | s,/,?, | 15:14 |
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| xiaohhui | I think we need some review to it | 15:15 |
| carl_baldwin | xiaohhui: I guess seeing if kevinbenton could take another quick look would be a good first step. | 15:16 |
| xiaohhui | kevin will be good person for the review | 15:16 |
| carl_baldwin | xiaohhui: Would you mind sending him a quick note? | 15:16 |
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| xiaohhui | he had given some good feedback | 15:17 |
| xiaohhui | I will send him a mail today | 15:17 |
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| carl_baldwin | xiaohhui: Great. | 15:17 |
| carl_baldwin | I just noticed https://review.openstack.org/#/c/333716/ has made some good progress while I was away. I'll have a look at it today to see if it can be merged. | 15:18 |
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| mlavalle | yeah, I think that one is ready to merge | 15:19 |
| blogan | +1 | 15:20 |
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| carl_baldwin | Any other work in progress that should be discussed? | 15:20 |
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| carl_baldwin | I think our pace has continue to be pretty impressive. | 15:21 |
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| carl_baldwin | #topic Docs | 15:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)" | 15:21 | |
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| carl_baldwin | I dropped the ball here for a few weeks. I did start something locally but didn't get very far. | 15:22 |
| carl_baldwin | I'm at a point where I think I can knock out at least a rough beginning. | 15:22 |
| carl_baldwin | So, I'll take that action item. | 15:22 |
| carl_baldwin | #action carl_baldwin will knock out initial docs | 15:23 |
| carl_baldwin | #topic Testing | 15:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Testing (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)" | 15:23 | |
| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: | 15:23 |
| mlavalle | we are making progress with the tempest tests | 15:24 |
| mlavalle | Bin has posted two revisions to the scenario test | 15:24 |
| mlavalle | experiencing some problems that he is working on | 15:24 |
| mlavalle | janzian is working on the api tests | 15:24 |
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| mlavalle | We should have a scenario test by the end of this week | 15:25 |
| mlavalle | with the two happy paths | 15:25 |
| mlavalle | and to that we will add a connectivity test of vm's on different segments | 15:25 |
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| mlavalle | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/347188 | 15:26 |
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| carl_baldwin | Sounds like good progress. | 15:27 |
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| mlavalle | that's it this week | 15:28 |
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| carl_baldwin | #topic Integration with Nova Scheduler | 15:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Integration with Nova Scheduler (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)" | 15:29 | |
| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: back to you. :) | 15:29 |
| mlavalle | I have started coding the interaction of Neutron with the generic resource pools api | 15:29 |
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| mlavalle | I am using the client I wrote for generic resource pools | 15:30 |
| mlavalle | it's been slower that I expected. But I should have a first prototype soon | 15:30 |
| carl_baldwin | Sounds cool. | 15:31 |
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| carl_baldwin | Anything to discuss? | 15:31 |
| mlavalle | Not now. I'll yell if I need help | 15:32 |
| carl_baldwin | Thanks. | 15:32 |
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| carl_baldwin | #topic Service Subnets | 15:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Service Subnets (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)" | 15:32 | |
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| carl_baldwin | john-davidge: haleyb: I guess we already talked about this a bit. | 15:33 |
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| carl_baldwin | There was something I wanted to bring up but I'm having just a little trouble finding it. | 15:33 |
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| john-davidge | carl_baldwin: Yeah I think i covered eveything from me on this | 15:33 |
| haleyb | yes. I just pushed a new OSC patch, think it's close as well, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/342976/ | 15:34 |
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| carl_baldwin | I remember now. | 15:34 |
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| carl_baldwin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/304647/15/neutron/services/segments/plugin.py | 15:34 |
| carl_baldwin | ^ I wanted to point this out. | 15:34 |
| carl_baldwin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/304647/16/neutron/services/segments/plugin.py | 15:35 |
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| carl_baldwin | ^ I put a TODO here. | 15:35 |
| carl_baldwin | I hope it makes sense. | 15:35 |
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| * john-davidge looking | 15:36 | |
| carl_baldwin | Basically, with service subnets and routed networks, we'll eventually have subnets that aren't attached to segments. The main one is floating IP service subnets. | 15:36 |
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| carl_baldwin | That was my thinking anyway. | 15:36 |
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| john-davidge | Yes, that sounds right to me I think | 15:38 |
| haleyb | yes, think that makes sense | 15:38 |
| john-davidge | Either way that simplification seems sensible for now | 15:38 |
| carl_baldwin | It could be tricky given that a few places in code make the assumption that all of the subnets are attached to segments. | 15:39 |
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| john-davidge | A fun hurdle to deal with when we come to it :) | 15:39 |
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| carl_baldwin | But, I think we can finish the initial service subnet functionality without regard to routed networks. Then, we can look at reconciling the two. | 15:40 |
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| carl_baldwin | One step at a time. | 15:40 |
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| haleyb | yes. i'm sure there will be some implementation details wrt the service subnet being different from the FIP subnet for example, whether we need to tweak routes/rules, etc | 15:41 |
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| carl_baldwin | haleyb: I'll take a look at your OSC patch. | 15:41 |
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| haleyb | carl_baldwin: thanks, i might need to add more tests now that i seem to have it working | 15:41 |
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| carl_baldwin | Anything else? | 15:41 |
| haleyb | not from me | 15:42 |
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| carl_baldwin | Thanks. | 15:42 |
| carl_baldwin | #topic Client | 15:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Client (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)" | 15:42 | |
| carl_baldwin | rtheis: Are you around? | 15:42 |
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| carl_baldwin | Anything in the client being neglected? | 15:42 |
| rtheis | carl_baldwin: yes | 15:42 |
| rtheis | right now I'm waiting on create and delete segment in neutron to merge | 15:43 |
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| rtheis | then I can remove WIP from "network segment create" and "network segment delete" | 15:43 |
| carl_baldwin | rtheis: Yeah, that is one that we're focusing attention to now. | 15:43 |
| rtheis | cool | 15:43 |
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| rtheis | carl_baldwin: are there any other client changes that are needed | 15:44 |
| rtheis | I will review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/342976/ | 15:44 |
| carl_baldwin | rtheis: Off the top of my head, I can't think of any. | 15:44 |
| rtheis | ok | 15:44 |
| carl_baldwin | rtheis: thanks. | 15:44 |
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| rtheis | carl_baldwin: do you think name and description will be added to segment | 15:45 |
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| carl_baldwin | rtheis: I'll let you know if I discover any others as I'm writing the documentation. | 15:45 |
| rtheis | ok | 15:45 |
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| rtheis | If so, then I'll have a few minor updates for that | 15:45 |
| carl_baldwin | rtheis: We have a patch for that. It has been somewhat neglected due to priority but I think we can start taking another look. | 15:45 |
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| rtheis | sounds good | 15:46 |
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| rtheis | nothing else | 15:46 |
| carl_baldwin | rtheis: Thanks. | 15:46 |
| carl_baldwin | #topic Open Discussion | 15:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: neutron_routed_networks)" | 15:46 | |
| carl_baldwin | Anything that we 're neglecting? | 15:47 |
| mlavalle | I am working on a patchset to return the segment id in the port dictionary | 15:47 |
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| mlavalle | I only need to add unit tests. I will push it later today | 15:47 |
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| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: Great, is that one already listed on the etherpad? It keeps slipping my mind. :( | 15:48 |
| mlavalle | it is | 15:48 |
| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: But, that is an important piece. I'm glad it's not slipping yours. | 15:48 |
| mlavalle | lol | 15:49 |
| mlavalle | I return the segment id in the port dictionary if the network is routed | 15:49 |
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| carl_baldwin | Thanks, let us know when it is up. | 15:50 |
| mlavalle | and it is built on top of the work you did for the deferral attribuet | 15:50 |
| mlavalle | attribute^^^^ | 15:50 |
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| mlavalle | I also want to introduce yb to the team | 15:51 |
| mlavalle | He is the one working on the tempest scenario test | 15:51 |
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| mlavalle | and he will be attending this meeting from nw on to report his progress on that subject | 15:51 |
| carl_baldwin | yb: hi | 15:51 |
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| yb | hi :) | 15:52 |
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| mlavalle | His name is Bin Yu and he is based out of Shanghai | 15:52 |
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| yb | cal_baldwin: hi:) | 15:52 |
| mlavalle | That's all fom me and yb | 15:53 |
| carl_baldwin | mlavalle: yb: thanks | 15:53 |
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| carl_baldwin | Anyone else have anything? | 15:53 |
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| john-davidge | carl_baldwin: endmeeting? | 16:01 |
| carl_baldwin | #endmeeting | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 2 16:01:38 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_routed_networks/2016/neutron_routed_networks.2016-08-02-15.01.html | 16:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_routed_networks/2016/neutron_routed_networks.2016-08-02-15.01.txt | 16:01 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_routed_networks/2016/neutron_routed_networks.2016-08-02-15.01.log.html | 16:01 |
| carl_baldwin | doh! | 16:01 |
| john-davidge | carl_baldwin :) | 16:01 |
| carl_baldwin | My apologies if someone was waiting for that. | 16:02 |
| mlavalle | Have a nice rest of the day / evening / night | 16:02 |
| carl_baldwin | john-davidge: Thanks! | 16:02 |
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| stevemar | o/ | 17:59 |
| stevemar | #startmeeting keystone | 17:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 2 17:59:53 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is stevemar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:59 |
| stevemar | ping ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, crinkle, claudiub, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, gagehugo, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, jaugustine, joesavak, jorge_munoz, knikolla, lbragstad, MaxPC, morgan, nkinder, notmorgan, raildo, rodrigods, rderose, roxanaghe, samleon, samueldmq, shaleh, stevemar, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong, xek | 17:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 17:59 | |
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| bknudson | hi | 17:59 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 17:59 |
| nk2527 | o/ | 17:59 |
| lbragstad | o/ | 18:00 |
| dolphm | \o | 18:00 |
| stevemar | o/ | 18:00 |
| Raildo | o/ | 18:00 |
| breton | o/ | 18:00 |
| rodrigods | hello | 18:00 |
| rderose | o\ | 18:00 |
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| henrynash | \\o// | 18:00 |
| browne | o/ | 18:00 |
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| stevemar | dolphm, rderose and henrynash gotta be different | 18:00 |
| dstanek | o/ | 18:00 |
| rodrigods | stevemar, hey, cascade deletion is useful! | 18:00 |
| rderose | :) | 18:00 |
| rodrigods | just kidding | 18:00 |
| topol | o/ | 18:00 |
| stevemar | we're missing gyee and samuel today | 18:00 |
| dolphm | stevemar: someone has to wave back | 18:00 |
| henrynash | (practicing my yoga) | 18:00 |
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| dolphm | stevemar: we can't all just wave in the same direction | 18:00 |
| stevemar | henrynash: lol | 18:00 |
| stevemar | henrynash: kudo to you if you can still get into \\o// | 18:01 |
| stevemar | agenda: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting | 18:01 |
| henrynash | zero chance...I'm the entertainment for the class | 18:01 |
| stevemar | hehe | 18:01 |
| crinkle | o/ | 18:01 |
| breton | ////o\\\\ | 18:01 |
| stevemar | wait a minute for the rest of the folks to trickle in | 18:01 |
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| topol | \o | 18:02 |
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| henrynash | breton: those spiders really get me | 18:02 |
| ayoung | Oyez Oyez | 18:02 |
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| * stevemar avoids topol because he's gonna ask about our openstackSV presentation and if i'm done the slides... | 18:02 | |
| adriant | o/ | 18:02 |
| topol | stevemar!!!!! Im comin for ya | 18:02 |
| stevemar | we got critical mass, lets go! | 18:02 |
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| stevemar | #topic release status | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "release status (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:03 | |
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| stevemar | we've got a few weeks to go til newton-3! http://releases.openstack.org/newton/schedule.html | 18:03 |
| stevemar | #link http://releases.openstack.org/newton/schedule.html | 18:03 |
| stevemar | we've got a bunch of bugs and blueprints, see https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/newton-3 | 18:03 |
| stevemar | good news is almost everything has patches up | 18:03 |
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| stevemar | so we're in decent shape | 18:04 |
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| stevemar | and almost all patches associated with those blueprints and bugs have been seeing good reviews | 18:04 |
| stevemar | so thanks everyone for that | 18:04 |
| dolphm | +2 | 18:04 |
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| stevemar | just gotta keep it up for another 4 weeks til newton-3 and we're smooth sailing til barcelona (tapas on me) | 18:05 |
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| * topol wish our OpenStackSV prez was in as good shape :-) | 18:05 | |
| stevemar | OK that was good | 18:05 |
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| stevemar | :) | 18:05 |
| ayoung | dngit we need the OSC client support for DSRs | 18:05 |
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| stevemar | so if you're looking for things to review, pick a bug or BP from https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/newton-3 and look for the gerrit link | 18:06 |
| stevemar | ayoung: henrynash is working on that | 18:06 |
| stevemar | i'm done my spiel | 18:06 |
| henrynash | ayoung: DSR patch for osc is in final review | 18:06 |
| stevemar | thanks again for the reviews and triaging everyone! | 18:06 |
| stevemar | #topic fix cache invalidation | 18:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "fix cache invalidation (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:06 | |
| lbragstad | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1607553 | 18:07 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1607553 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "Revocation event caching is broken across processes" [High,New] | 18:07 |
| stevemar | breton, lbragstad, dstanek ^ | 18:07 |
| breton | hey | 18:07 |
| breton | i and lbragstad ran into the same issue independently: https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1607553 | 18:07 |
| lbragstad | ok - I spent a good portion of friday trying to figure out why we can't switch to fernet | 18:07 |
| dstanek | this is a fun one | 18:07 |
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| bknudson | so just looking at the review comments "this is a hack" and "this doesn't work" | 18:07 |
| breton | patch for it doesn't fully work, but because of a technical issue | 18:07 |
| bknudson | not sure what the point is of discussing it. | 18:07 |
| breton | the bug is a blocker for making fernet the default | 18:07 |
| stevemar | bknudson: slow down turbo | 18:08 |
| breton | the patch we are talking about is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/327885/ . | 18:08 |
| lbragstad | I think we need to figure out what our best option is for moving forward so that we can invalidate cache regions across processes | 18:08 |
| breton | the problem with it is that it *will* break with the new release of dogpile.cache | 18:08 |
| breton | because it relies on internal interfaces of dogpile.cache | 18:08 |
| bknudson | so -2 | 18:08 |
| breton | but using internal interfaces looks like the only way in stable dogpile.cache | 18:08 |
| dstanek | breton: i think that my version won't once it's working | 18:09 |
| amakarov | bknudson: OTOH it's the only solution for current stable/* branches | 18:09 |
| breton | the fix for the bug also needs to be backported to stable/mitaka | 18:09 |
| bknudson | does dogpile.cache not accept code submissions | 18:09 |
| lbragstad | bknudson they do - amakarov added support for region invalidation across processes | 18:09 |
| dstanek | bknudson: the problem is (and according to dolphm we can push back) the policy for bumping version numbers in stable branches | 18:09 |
| lbragstad | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/349704/ this is dstanek's approach to fixing the problem | 18:10 |
| breton | dstanek: have you and lbragstad tested it against fernet patches? | 18:10 |
| stevemar | i see amakarov's commit here: https://bitbucket.org/zzzeek/dogpile.cache/commits/all | 18:10 |
| dstanek | i think this is a solved problem there and ideally that's what i'd like to use | 18:10 |
| amakarov | lbragstad: but I needed to ask zzzeek for permission - it's not automatic | 18:10 |
| dstanek | breton: i get similar results. less test failures, but i was still getting some | 18:10 |
| breton | dstanek: is it backportable to stable/mitaka? | 18:11 |
| dstanek | breton: should be, but i didn't try it | 18:11 |
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| amakarov | stevemar: yes, and with this update it's possible to solve the issue in oslo | 18:11 |
| dstanek | but i'd rather push forward | 18:11 |
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| stevemar | dogpile is currently capped at 0.5.7 in stable/mitaka | 18:12 |
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| amakarov | stevemar: exactly | 18:12 |
| breton | stevemar: can we merge one fix for stable/mitaka and completely different to master? | 18:12 |
| dolphm | amakarov: what would the new version of dogpile be released as? | 18:12 |
| bknudson | http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/requirements/tree/global-requirements.txt?h=stable/mitaka#n41 | 18:13 |
| stevemar | breton: you ... can, it's not ideal, but it's possible | 18:13 |
| bknudson | according to this dogpile.cache is not capped. | 18:13 |
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| stevemar | bknudson: https://github.com/openstack/requirements/blob/stable/mitaka/upper-constraints.txt#L118 | 18:13 |
| amakarov | I suggest using breton's patch and cap dogpile.cache to the version prior to my patch | 18:13 |
| bknudson | that's not a cap that's just what is used for testing. | 18:14 |
| stevemar | the one after 0.5.7 is 0.6.0 | 18:14 |
| bknudson | if the min version is updated then that means every deployer/packager needs to upgrade. | 18:14 |
| dstanek | amakarov: i'd want to immediately follow up with the right way to do it in master | 18:14 |
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| breton | dstanek: me too | 18:14 |
| amakarov | bknudson: yes, though if we miss dogpile.cache release with my patch with breton's on merged, we'll be in trouble ) | 18:14 |
| dolphm | bknudson: ? http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/requirements/tree/upper-constraints.txt?h=stable/mitaka#n118 | 18:14 |
| breton | dstanek: but we need to do something with mitaka | 18:15 |
| lbragstad | dstanek breton but are we sure the propose path actually fixes the race conditions? | 18:15 |
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| bknudson | upper-constraints is what the community uses for testing. It's not a cap. | 18:15 |
| breton | lbragstad: lets leave technical issue aside | 18:15 |
| amakarov | dstanek: right now breton follows it ) | 18:15 |
| dstanek | breton: right, that's why i said we should immediately fix master | 18:15 |
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| breton | lbragstad: i thing we can figure it out in reviews/#openstack-keystone | 18:15 |
| dstanek | lbragstad: i don't think this fixes the race at all | 18:15 |
| amakarov | sounds like a consensus | 18:15 |
| stevemar | bknudson: but that's what'll be laid down when the dsvm tests run | 18:16 |
| dolphm | packagers are not likely going to repackage dogpile 0.6.0 just for us (potentially breaking other consumers), especially if it contains a breaking API change | 18:16 |
| dstanek | unspoken alternative is to recomment revocation caching be turned off | 18:16 |
| amakarov | dolphm: good point! | 18:16 |
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| breton | dolphm: it doesn't contain breaking api change | 18:16 |
| dolphm | dstanek: so i might have to take back the idea to bump the requirement | 18:16 |
| breton | dolphm: the patch relies on private stuff :( | 18:16 |
| lbragstad | dstanek at least until it works properly | 18:16 |
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| dstanek | dolphm: i don't know that it contains a breaking api change | 18:17 |
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| dolphm | oh, only we would break if we upgraded, then? | 18:17 |
| lbragstad | right - it breaks because we rely on internal interfaces of dogpile | 18:17 |
| dstanek | dolphm: out hacks are monkey patching protected variables | 18:17 |
| breton | dolphm: yes | 18:17 |
| bknudson | can dogpile.cache do a fix release 0.5.8 ? | 18:17 |
| dstanek | s/out/our/ | 18:17 |
| bknudson | probably not. | 18:17 |
| dolphm | why would dogpile require a 0.6.0 release instead of a 0.5.8 release, then? because this is perceived as a feature? | 18:17 |
| lbragstad | amakarov ^ ? | 18:18 |
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| stevemar | breton: the 0.6.0 release had an api change, they moved things around IIRC | 18:18 |
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| breton | stevemar: oh, ok. | 18:18 |
| breton | zzz... is not here | 18:18 |
| dolphm | stevemar: unrelated to this fix? | 18:18 |
| dstanek | stevemar: really?j | 18:18 |
| amakarov | dolphm: don't remember exactly if the patch has a bug specified ( | 18:18 |
| breton | ok, since dstanek has a patch, here is what i suggest | 18:19 |
| breton | 1. Try his patch out, it doesn't rely on protected variables | 18:19 |
| breton | 2. if it works, merge, backport, code using amakarov's new feature | 18:19 |
| lbragstad | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/349704/ | 18:19 |
| stevemar | dolphm: i thought so? https://bitbucket.org/zzzeek/dogpile.cache/commits/761dc0a9e4c08f9af4b732ced3604e72d74f09af | 18:19 |
| amakarov | #link https://bitbucket.org/zzzeek/dogpile.cache/issues/38/invalidate-entire-cache | 18:19 |
| breton | 3. if not, figure out at the next meeting | 18:20 |
| amakarov | oops... it's a bugfix | 18:20 |
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| breton | what do you think? | 18:20 |
| dstanek | breton: i still need to figure out if the transients are my fault or not | 18:20 |
| lbragstad | breton that path will require us to bump the version of dogpile for the backport - right? | 18:20 |
| dstanek | that's the case for both patches i guess | 18:20 |
| breton | lbragstad: dstanek's? No. | 18:20 |
| dstanek | breton: lbragstad: no version bump needed for mine | 18:21 |
| stevemar | breton: #2 "code using amakarov's new feature" << whats that mean? | 18:21 |
| dolphm | stevemar: ++ | 18:21 |
| dolphm | consume it in master, maybe? | 18:21 |
| breton | stevemar: ^ > i see amakarov's commit here | 18:21 |
| breton | stevemar: the one in dogpile.cache | 18:21 |
| breton | stevemar: https://gerrit.sqlalchemy.org/#/c/108/ | 18:22 |
| lbragstad | #link https://bitbucket.org/zzzeek/dogpile.cache/commits/d521db7eb4eab4ad2bacf5f1f5fd89bd3e43a0fa | 18:22 |
| stevemar | breton: hmm, his dogpile commit, has it been released yet? | 18:22 |
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| breton | stevemar: it is not release yet, but i guess it will soon be | 18:22 |
| breton | stevemar: and when it is, "code using amakarov's new feature". | 18:22 |
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| stevemar | ohhhh okay | 18:22 |
| bknudson | when you backport to mitaka you can have the code check for the right version of dogpile.cache before using the new features. | 18:23 |
| stevemar | i get it | 18:23 |
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| stevemar | breton: sounds like a plan | 18:23 |
| breton | bknudson: dstanek's patch won't need any version checking | 18:23 |
| rodrigods | nice work on chasing this down | 18:23 |
| dstanek | ok, so concensus is breton, lbragstad and i will work on making sure my patch works and we'll get that merged and backported | 18:24 |
| dstanek | ? | 18:24 |
| stevemar | merge dstaneks patch in master and mitaka, then using amakarov's new feature when it's released in master | 18:24 |
| breton | #action breton, dstanek, lbragstad: check if patch by dstanek works not worse than https://review.openstack.org/#/c/327885/ | 18:24 |
| dstanek | ++ sounds good | 18:24 |
| stevemar | #action breton, dstanek, lbragstad: check if patch by dstanek works not worse than https://review.openstack.org/#/c/327885/ | 18:24 |
| lbragstad | sweet | 18:24 |
| stevemar | i was expecting some bot feedback *shrugs* | 18:24 |
| stevemar | great | 18:24 |
| stevemar | thanks breton, lbragstad and dstanek | 18:24 |
| lbragstad | thanks for the time | 18:25 |
| stevemar | np | 18:25 |
| stevemar | #topic Validating trust-scoped tokens with v2.0 API | 18:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Validating trust-scoped tokens with v2.0 API (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:25 | |
| stevemar | breton you're up again | 18:25 |
| breton | a trust-scoped token can be obtained via v2.0 API | 18:25 |
| breton | why cannot it be validated against v2.0 API? | 18:25 |
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| stevemar | maybe it was just overlooked? is this by design ayoung? | 18:25 |
| lbragstad | I believe that was something that changed when we consolidated the fernet token provider into the common provider | 18:26 |
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| amakarov | good point: trust doesn't scope to domains | 18:26 |
| breton | ./test_auth.py heavily relies on getting trusts via v2.0 | 18:26 |
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| ayoung | breaking that is still a backwards non-compat change until v2.0 goes away | 18:26 |
| lbragstad | I worked on getting a patch up for supporting trust auth/validate for v2.0 | 18:27 |
| lbragstad | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/278693/ | 18:27 |
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| breton | lbragstad: for fernet or for all types of token? | 18:27 |
| lbragstad | breton specifically for fernet | 18:27 |
| jamielennox | is this a fernet only problem? | 18:27 |
| breton | jamielennox: no | 18:27 |
| breton | jamielennox: initially i found it for uuid | 18:27 |
| jamielennox | i'm sure there is trust code in v2 | 18:27 |
| lbragstad | jamielennox nope | 18:27 |
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| stevemar | so this should be working with any token provider | 18:29 |
| stevemar | breton: file a bug and let's get it fixed | 18:29 |
| lbragstad | breton we can probably fix it with https://review.openstack.org/#/c/278693/ (once it's revived) | 18:30 |
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| bknudson | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/278693/ says you can validate trust with v2 | 18:30 |
| breton | ok | 18:30 |
| bknudson | uuid | 18:30 |
| stevemar | breton: file a bug for it, currently https://review.openstack.org/#/c/278693/ is missing one :\ | 18:31 |
| stevemar | bknudson: pki | 18:31 |
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| bknudson | pki what? | 18:32 |
| bknudson | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/278693/ says that uuid works | 18:32 |
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| stevemar | bknudson: ah damn, it does eh | 18:32 |
| stevemar | but breton found the bug with uuid | 18:32 |
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| breton | ok, i will file a bug | 18:33 |
| bknudson | there's a contradiction here. | 18:33 |
| stevemar | breton: yeah, let's start there, we need more info on this one | 18:33 |
| stevemar | i guess the only good part is that no one has noticed this is broken | 18:34 |
| stevemar | next topic | 18:34 |
| stevemar | #topic Rolling upgrades | 18:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Rolling upgrades (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:34 | |
| stevemar | henrynash: you're up | 18:34 |
| henrynash | ok | 18:34 |
| stevemar | i'm just about ready to +A this spec, but if anyone else wants to chime in, now is the time | 18:34 |
| henrynash | so that was first thing.... | 18:34 |
| henrynash | any other comments? (dtsanek, thanks for yours) | 18:35 |
| stevemar | spec is here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/337680/ | 18:35 |
| henrynash | 3 patches are up for implementation, starting at: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/349703/2 | 18:35 |
| stevemar | dolphm: ayoung lbragstad ? | 18:35 |
| stevemar | and it would land for newton | 18:36 |
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| lbragstad | stevemar I haven't weighed in on it yet | 18:36 |
| henrynash | some of the implementation is still WIP, but it IS functional, and I am closing out some corner cases, adding more testing and then add docs | 18:36 |
| dstanek | henrynash: the only think i didn't quite get was the steps that appeared to be duplicated | 18:37 |
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| dolphm | stevemar: i was pretty happy with our discussion at the midcycle, only had a few nits on the spec itself that i don't care that much about | 18:37 |
| henrynash | dstanek: so I added a comment on that...it is to prevent problems once we have on-the-fly migrations | 18:37 |
| henrynash | dtsanek: but happy to followup with clarifications | 18:38 |
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| stevemar | okay i'll give lbragstad til EOD then punt it through | 18:38 |
| stevemar | henrynash: keep workin on the code ;) | 18:38 |
| lbragstad | stevemar I might not get around to it today - but I trust the judgement of others who have weighed in on it | 18:39 |
| henrynash | stevemar: yes sir | 18:39 |
| stevemar | henrynash: you even got a +1 from xek | 18:39 |
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| stevemar | lbragstad: rgr that | 18:39 |
| henrynash | stevemar: yep, gonna bank that one | 18:39 |
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| stevemar | henrynash: turns out mulling this over for a year makes it safe | 18:39 |
| stevemar | next topic | 18:39 |
| henrynash | stevemar; shockin' that | 18:39 |
| dstanek | henrynash: so in step #3 we have all nodes upgraded and only reading/writing from old column. after that you only need to start reading from the new column | 18:40 |
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| stevemar | #topic MFA | 18:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "MFA (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:40 | |
| stevemar | adriant: o/ | 18:40 |
| stevemar | sorry for the wait :) | 18:40 |
| adriant | Hey | 18:40 |
| adriant | np :) | 18:40 |
| adriant | so | 18:41 |
| dstanek | henrynash: i thought that set #5 would actually stop using the old column altogether | 18:41 |
| stevemar | spec: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/345113/ and patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/343422/ | 18:41 |
| adriant | I'd like to get MFA working in OpenStack, and easiest way without breaking anything is password+passcode concatenation. | 18:41 |
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| adriant | Optional MFA plugin, works like password auth | 18:41 |
| stevemar | adriant: does it matter to you if this lands in N or O? | 18:41 |
| adriant | just also checked TOTP if present. | 18:41 |
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| adriant | stevemar: N would be better, but can wait | 18:42 |
| stevemar | *nods* | 18:42 |
| adriant | stevemar: I can backport for our own purposes easily enough | 18:42 |
| henrynash | dstanek: (whct you need to prevent is one node that thinks its Ok to write to just the new column and one thinking it only has to read from teh old column...and since I decided against a spooky entaglement at a distance lock, we need a send phase of reboots, I think) | 18:42 |
| stevemar | adriant: so you guys are running something like this already correct? | 18:42 |
| adriant | My main worry is the v2 api | 18:42 |
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| adriant | stevemar: Not yet | 18:42 |
| adriant | stevemar: but the goal is to be up and running with MFA in the next 3-6 months | 18:42 |
| stevemar | rgr that | 18:43 |
| jamielennox | i have most of the same concerns i've had in the past once we get in to which projects require what level of 2fa, what happens when they don't ahve a totp key etc | 18:43 |
| adriant | jaminelennox: I've kept per project MFA out of this spec and patch | 18:43 |
| stevemar | if no TOTP key, it should act just like password auth | 18:43 |
| jamielennox | and do federation, but i feel like i've beat that drum a fair bit now | 18:43 |
| adriant | jamielennox: as it's a requirement that would need too much work across all of keystone to make viable | 18:44 |
| stevemar | and no per-project support | 18:44 |
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| jamielennox | yep, ok | 18:44 |
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| adriant | if a project needs MFA, it is up to the project to enforce all users have it active | 18:44 |
| jamielennox | most other concerns are negated by the fact we already support a totp of some form | 18:44 |
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| stevemar | jamielennox: it'll enable MFA support for SQL users, which as we've found out, a lot of people use -- and they won't be moving all those users to federation any time soon | 18:45 |
| adriant | Should also work for LDAP users. | 18:45 |
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| adriant | I've suggested in the docs that disabling V2 is part of the suggested method to enable MFA | 18:46 |
| stevemar | adriant: can you elaborate why it won't work with v2? | 18:46 |
| adriant | as I'm not sure touching the V2 auth code for this is a good idea | 18:46 |
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| adriant | v2 doesn't appear to be pluggable, and unless edited, does not do the TOTP check. | 18:47 |
| bknudson | we don't require tempest testing for features? | 18:47 |
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| rodrigods | bknudson, no :( | 18:47 |
| bknudson | scary. | 18:48 |
| adriant | stevemar: are there ways to edit the v2 auth without changing the default? | 18:48 |
| adriant | My worry is, a user with a TOTP cred on v3 will need password+passcode | 18:48 |
| adriant | on v2, just password | 18:48 |
| adriant | so v2 is a way around MFA unless v2 also has some MFA changes | 18:49 |
| dolphm | adriant: don't deploy v2 | 18:49 |
| dstanek | adriant: disable v2? | 18:49 |
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| stevemar | dstanek: dolphm right, that's what adriant recommended | 18:49 |
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| stevemar | v2 auth won't be going away for a long time | 18:49 |
| stevemar | I think if the v2 auth limitation is clearly documented then it's good enough. | 18:50 |
| bknudson | why doesn't v2 use the password plugin? | 18:50 |
| adriant | not the v3 one | 18:50 |
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| dolphm | bknudson: as in, just hardcode it to use the native password plugin? | 18:50 |
| adriant | bknudson: It looks to be it's own separate auth plugin | 18:51 |
| bknudson | right, just like v3 auth hardcodes the "external" plugin. | 18:51 |
| stevemar | https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/9d54eb33c1d74ff39c947af6ff984ef2e0bf4be4/keystone/token/controllers.py#L63 | 18:51 |
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| dolphm | this seems like a rabbit hole. why does v3 hardcode the external plugin? | 18:51 |
| stevemar | we could create a v2_password plugin | 18:52 |
| bknudson | v3 uses the "external" plugin if there's EXTERNAL_USER or whatever it is. | 18:52 |
| jamielennox | lol, don't look at auth! | 18:53 |
| jamielennox | it makes you sad | 18:53 |
| adriant | stevemar: yep, I've looked at how i could edit that v2 auth controller to support MFA, but I didn't want to edit older defaults. | 18:53 |
| stevemar | adriant: we could just add credential lookup to the v2 auth code | 18:53 |
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| adriant | stevemar: maybe, but it would need to be based on if the v3 auth is using the the "password_totp" plugin | 18:54 |
| stevemar | so core team, i'm putting you on the spot here, thoughts on this? y'all are being unusually quiet... | 18:54 |
| bknudson | found it: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/keystone/tree/keystone/auth/controllers.py#n504 | 18:54 |
| bknudson | my opinion - we need to clean up existing keystone before adding new features. | 18:54 |
| stevemar | lbragstad: dstanek bknudson dolphm jamielennox everyone, yay or nay? | 18:54 |
| bknudson | otherwise we're just adding technical debt on top of debt. | 18:54 |
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| rodrigods | bknudson, this is something that has being raised a couple of times | 18:55 |
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| bknudson | and using crappy existing code as a reason to not support v2 is a poor excuse. | 18:55 |
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| stevemar | bknudson: in my grand scheme, PCI and MFA were the last "features" i wanted to add, then start paying off technical debt | 18:55 |
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| stevemar | so i'm a bit biased here | 18:55 |
| rodrigods | stevemar, bknudson, can we track somewhere stuff that is simply not good enough and need to be revisited? i guess the next topic falls into that | 18:56 |
| dstanek | stevemar: so what is the proposal...to fix v2? | 18:56 |
| bknudson | I'm actually fine with the feature since it's optional. | 18:56 |
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| stevemar | dstanek: whether or not to add MFA as its designed in the currently spec | 18:57 |
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| bknudson | although we really need to start requiring tempest testing for features. | 18:57 |
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| jamielennox | i agree with bknudson, i'm concerned about the layers on layers of stuff and how you do things like message that a 2fa cred is required | 18:57 |
| jamielennox | the whole pipeline through there is a disaster | 18:57 |
| jamielennox | but honestly the scariest parts of this have already been merged so at this point whatever | 18:58 |
| dolphm | adding totp auth support to v2 is not an API change, right? | 18:58 |
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| stevemar | jamielennox: the alternative is we wait until the S release to include new features :P | 18:58 |
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| bknudson | adding totp to v2 is as much an api change as adding it to v3. | 18:58 |
| stevemar | ++ | 18:58 |
| adriant | dolphm: the problem isn't adding totp auth, it's adding password+totp auth | 18:58 |
| stevemar | to the existing password auth | 18:59 |
| stevemar | bah, move to -keystone | 18:59 |
| stevemar | #endmeeting | 18:59 |
| dolphm | maybe i need to revisit the new spec again | 18:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 2 18:59:23 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-08-02-17.59.html | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-08-02-17.59.txt | 18:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-08-02-17.59.log.html | 18:59 |
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| fungi | who's up for another exciting installment of [GENERIC INFRA TEAM WEEKLY MEETING]? | 18:59 |
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| ianw | me | 18:59 |
| Shrews | ooh, ooh. me!!! | 18:59 |
| Zara | sure! | 18:59 |
| fungi | good, i'm not alone ;) | 19:00 |
| jeblair | fungi: who's our sponsor this week? | 19:00 |
| fungi | today's topics brought to you by craige, fungi, pabelanger | 19:00 |
| bkero | o/ | 19:00 |
| crinkle | o/ | 19:00 |
| rcarrillocruz | o/ | 19:00 |
| nibalizer | wooo meeting | 19:00 |
| SotK | o/ | 19:00 |
| * jeblair is brought to you by a fried chicken sandwich | 19:00 | |
| fungi | the part of craige will be played by yours truly in case he's still asleep | 19:00 |
| * mordred rides in on a pillar of fire fueled by toml thoughts | 19:00 | |
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| jeblair | oh good, i'm glad we've moved on. :) | 19:01 |
| anteaya | is pabelanger around? | 19:01 |
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| fungi | maybe he'll show up before his topic comes around. if not i can move it to last position to give him a few extra minutes to get here | 19:02 |
| zaro | o/ | 19:02 |
| anteaya | k | 19:03 |
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| olaph | o/ | 19:03 |
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| fungi | okay, i'll get started | 19:04 |
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| fungi | #startmeeting infra | 19:04 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 2 19:04:40 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:04 |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:04 |
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| fungi | #topic Announcements | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:04 | |
| fungi | #info Reminder: late-cycle joint Infra/QA get together to be held September 19-21 (CW38) in at SAP offices in Walldorf, DE | 19:05 |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Sprints/QAInfraNewtonSprint | 19:05 |
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| fungi | #info Reminder: get me additions for the announcements section of the meeting if you have any additions for next week | 19:05 |
| fungi | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:05 | |
| fungi | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-07-26-19.03.html | 19:05 |
| fungi | pleia2 Submit a spec to host an instance of limesurvey | 19:05 |
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| pabelanger | o/ | 19:06 |
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| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/349831 spec "Survey Server" | 19:06 |
| anteaya | pleia2: thank you | 19:06 |
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| fungi | maybe next week we'll see it proposed for council vote | 19:06 |
| fungi | she mentioned earlier she won't be around for the meeting today | 19:06 |
| fungi | but her spec is here in her place! | 19:06 |
| fungi | fungi start a poll for infra mascot | 19:07 |
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| fungi | done, have a meeting topic later to discuss the results | 19:07 |
| fungi | i haven't officially closed the poll yet, so that i can maintain some air of mystery around the results until we get to that point in the meeting (even i have no idea what people picked!) | 19:07 |
| fungi | stay tuned... | 19:07 |
| rcarrillocruz | *drumroll* | 19:07 |
| fungi | #topic Specs approval: PROPOSED: Pholio Service Installation (craige, fungi) | 19:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval: PROPOSED: Pholio Service Installation (craige, fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:07 | |
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| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/340641 spec "Pholio Service Installation" | 19:07 |
| fungi | craige probably isn't around for the meeting but this is already in progress | 19:07 |
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| fungi | so i'm going ahead and seeing if we can get council agreement on it in its latest iteration | 19:07 |
| fungi | allowing us to track the changes a little better | 19:07 |
| fungi | any objection to putting it to a vote by this time thursday? | 19:08 |
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| anteaya | I do not object | 19:08 |
| anteaya | we can still tweak the spec if need be after it is published | 19:08 |
| jeblair | no, earlier is better with specs. :) | 19:08 |
| fungi | #info Spec "Pholio Service Installation" is open for council voting un til 19:00 UTC Thursday, August 4 | 19:09 |
| fungi | #undo | 19:09 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Info object at 0x7f5bc06f8e90> | 19:09 |
| fungi | #info Spec "Pholio Service Installation" is open for council voting until 19:00 UTC Thursday, August 4 | 19:09 |
| fungi | stray space snuck into that first one | 19:09 |
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| anteaya | ah | 19:09 |
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| fungi | basically this is a distillation of the earlier phabricator spec but just for the pholio design wireframe/mockup subsystem so the ui/ux team can move off of the (proprietary) invision service they're using | 19:10 |
| anteaya | which is a great direction | 19:10 |
| fungi | they've already tried out a demo craige put together a while back and are very eager to be able to use it once we can get it running | 19:10 |
| anteaya | oh wonderful | 19:10 |
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| fungi | piet has already started archiving pdfs of their old work from invision so they'll have it to refer to for historical context | 19:11 |
| fungi | #topic Priority Efforts | 19:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:11 | |
| fungi | looks like no new blockers on the agenda this week | 19:11 |
| fungi | #topic Infra mascot/logo (fungi) | 19:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Infra mascot/logo (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:12 | |
| fungi | thought about saving this for last, but i guess we'll just get it out of teh way now | 19:12 |
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| fungi | The poll has been ended. It was announced to end 2016-08-01 23:59:59 UTC. | 19:12 |
| fungi | #link http://civs.cs.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/results.pl?id=E_c2c11d642eafb0e0 and the results and just now coming in... | 19:13 |
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| Shrews | *drumroll* | 19:13 |
| jeblair | is this going to be like brexit? ("i only voted for ... because i didn't think it would win") | 19:13 |
| Zara | ;_; | 19:13 |
| fungi | top choices in descending order: | 19:13 |
| fungi | ant | 19:13 |
| fungi | honeycomb | 19:13 |
| SotK | too soon :( | 19:13 |
| fungi | bee | 19:13 |
| fungi | turtle | 19:13 |
| anteaya | SotK: :( | 19:13 |
| fungi | beaver/woodchuck (i think we just planned for this to be beaver after subsequent discussion) | 19:14 |
| jeblair | SotK, Zara: sorry :( | 19:14 |
| anteaya | well as I said before, ant and bee are ruled by queens | 19:14 |
| * bkero petitions the leadership for a re-vote followed by searching Google for 'what is the infra?' | 19:14 | |
| anteaya | which I didn't think the group would like the symbology of | 19:14 |
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| fungi | i'll give the full ranked list to heidijoy for review so she can cross off ones that are in conflict with what other teams have already picked | 19:14 |
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| anteaya | well keystone picked turtle | 19:14 |
| fungi | yep | 19:14 |
| fungi | i like the ant. they work together and build things. the queen is just a figure head after all | 19:15 |
| fungi | anyway, we'll see what heidijoy comes back with | 19:15 |
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| Shrews | can I now nominate mordred as our queen? | 19:15 |
| persia | Ant and Bee feeding strategies are also a good map to cores in different projects. | 19:16 |
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| fungi | fair point. my mom does a lot of beekeeping and i hear all sorts of great ideas i should begin applying to our team ;) | 19:16 |
| zaro | Shrews: dress him up for a pic | 19:16 |
| anteaya | zaro: ++ | 19:16 |
| rcarrillocruz | lol | 19:16 |
| * fungi would pay for queen mordred photos | 19:16 | |
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| fungi | crown and sceptre are a must though | 19:17 |
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| anteaya | fungi: I want to see your version of the nectar dance | 19:17 |
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| fungi | that'll take some planning | 19:17 |
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| Zara | there are some dramatic videos out there of swarms of bees being removed from walls and things | 19:17 |
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| Zara | have ended up chain-watching when in the grip of insomnia before | 19:18 |
| fungi | okay, unless anyone else has any important mascot discussion items, we can revisit this next week with something solid | 19:18 |
| jeblair | we'll have an ascii version of the mascot, right? | 19:18 |
| fungi | i thought that was the only version we'd have? ;) | 19:18 |
| jeblair | ++ | 19:18 |
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| fungi | #topic AFS mirror for puppet module Git repos (pabelanger) | 19:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "AFS mirror for puppet module Git repos (pabelanger) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:19 | |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/345669 AFS mirror for puppet module Git repos | 19:19 |
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| pabelanger | hello | 19:19 |
| fungi | the floor is yours | 19:19 |
| fungi | and maybe a wall or two | 19:19 |
| pabelanger | This has come up as part of the effort to remove private infrastructure from tripleo-ci | 19:19 |
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| pabelanger | as a result, they currently mirror some git repos (github.com) to that server | 19:19 |
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| pabelanger | there were some objections about mirroring git repos however | 19:20 |
| fungi | i think a great example for this is our infra puppet module tests | 19:20 |
| pabelanger | since we don't really like doing that | 19:20 |
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| jeblair | i'd be more on board with this if we had a story about how it was needed by more than one project | 19:20 |
| fungi | we have jobs that reclone a ton of puppet modules from github for testing (should/can we get them from tarballs or something instead?) | 19:21 |
| jeblair | what about puppet-openstack-puppet? | 19:21 |
| pabelanger | Right, I think we could make this use tarballs for puppet modules, and I think tripleo is on board with that. | 19:21 |
| pabelanger | which means we don't need a git afs mirror | 19:21 |
| jeblair | (what do they need -- while i go look up which order their project's name is in) | 19:22 |
| jeblair | PuppetOpenStack! that's the one :) | 19:22 |
| EmilienM | hi | 19:22 |
| pabelanger | basically, this is a list of there current mirror: http://8.43.87.241/repos/ a lot of things are puppet modules | 19:22 |
| bkero | Non-openstack puppet modules at that | 19:23 |
| EmilienM | not sure I'm in the context but we have tarballs for every puppet module, tarballs.openstack.org/puppet-* | 19:23 |
| EmilienM | except non PuppetOpenStack :-) | 19:23 |
| bkero | yeahhh | 19:23 |
| pabelanger | right, this applies to external puppet modules | 19:23 |
| jeblair | EmilienM: in ci, where do your external dependencies come from? | 19:24 |
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| crinkle | github | 19:24 |
| jeblair | so would a local mirror as either a git repo or (daily generated?) tarballs be helpful? | 19:25 |
| fungi | which is why i was using our puppet module tests as an exampkle | 19:25 |
| fungi | example | 19:25 |
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| fungi | we do see false negative results from time to time because we failed to clone from github successfully in one of our module test jobs | 19:26 |
| pabelanger | I actually don't know the requirement for tripleo-ci, I was hoping just to offer up another mirror that was under the control of openstack-infra | 19:26 |
| pabelanger | I can go back and find out the answers | 19:26 |
| jeblair | fungi: ya. i guess we count too, though i'm personally not sure our problems rise to the point of needing this. | 19:26 |
| fungi | agreed, we're an example of the behavior, not necessarily a reason to change anything | 19:27 |
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| bkero | A lot of the external module cloning comes from using a tool called r10k to clone repos from a file | 19:28 |
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| jeblair | if it's just tripleo that needs this, then, for me, this underscores the unusual situation that tripleo-ci is in | 19:28 |
| crinkle | puppet-openstack sees the same false negatives issue and would benefit from such a mirror | 19:28 |
| bkero | Here: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/puppet-openstack-integration/tree/Puppetfile | 19:28 |
| crinkle | i can't speak for chef but i would expect they would see the same thing from time to time | 19:28 |
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| jeblair | (which we should probably address one way or the other -- either make it part of the ci system available to everyone, or run it as a third-party ci) | 19:29 |
| mordred | it would be important to make sure that things like r10k can deal with the mirror if it's present and if not use the stated upstream | 19:29 |
| jeblair | i also wonder if a proxy would be more appropriate for this? | 19:29 |
| mordred | and/or figure out what pre-cloning would be good for | 19:29 |
| jeblair | our _mirrors_ are _mirrors_ where as this is starting to look more like 'cache some local data'. | 19:30 |
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| pabelanger | right | 19:30 |
| pabelanger | a proxy would work too | 19:30 |
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| mordred | ssl ? | 19:30 |
| jeblair | mordred: i believe true http proxies support ssl | 19:32 |
| fungi | yeah, looking at the proposed change it's not entirely clear to me how this would be leveraged | 19:32 |
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| pabelanger | I am happy to table this for now and move to the next topic. I don't have a need for an answer today, but something I wanted to highlight and get the ball rolling on | 19:32 |
| fungi | how we actually serve up the cache in a way jobs could conveniently consume would be a big (missing) part of this puzzle for me | 19:33 |
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| bkero | Aren't things like this something we traditionally preload on nodepool images? | 19:33 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: i'm happy to discuss further any of the points i raised if you are interested | 19:33 |
| pabelanger | jeblair: sure, I'd like that | 19:34 |
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| fungi | bkero: we have time. there's only one other item on the agenda for today anyway and it's a quick one | 19:35 |
| fungi | er, pabelanger ^ | 19:35 |
| fungi | sorry bkero | 19:35 |
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| fungi | i'd be curious how tripleo-ci jobs are currently using their cache of these repos | 19:36 |
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| fungi | do they have their own custom tooling that knows to look for cached copies before downloading? | 19:37 |
| fungi | or are they using some existing puppet ecosystem tool that has that as a feature? | 19:37 |
| pabelanger | right, custom tooling. | 19:37 |
| fungi | like, a primary clone url and a backup one? | 19:37 |
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| pabelanger | from what I see, they simply clone from the mirror 100% of the time | 19:38 |
| fungi | would you also want the smart http git backend cgi set up on the mirror servers, with the model you're suggesting? | 19:38 |
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| fungi | or were you thinking they'd just be served as flat filesystem copies? | 19:38 |
| pabelanger | that way the patch is written is just to use apache to server up the bare git repos. It's a pretty crude first step | 19:39 |
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| pabelanger | I think for now, the question highlight this is not ready to move forward at the moment and maybe requires a spec to be put in place | 19:40 |
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| pabelanger | and I am happy to do that and talk more about it | 19:40 |
| fungi | sounds good--looking forward to reading that | 19:40 |
| fungi | thanks pabelanger! | 19:40 |
| fungi | #topic Attesting to our new artifact signing key (fungi) | 19:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Attesting to our new artifact signing key (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:41 | |
| fungi | #link http://docs.openstack.org/infra/system-config/signing.html#attestation Attesting to our new artifact signing key | 19:41 |
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| fungi | in short, we have a documented process for infra-root members confirming this signing key via ssh access checking local disk on the puppetmaster server | 19:41 |
| fungi | it would be excellent if as many of us as possible could follow that process soon and push key signatures up to the keyserver network for it | 19:42 |
| fungi | i've just done a successfuly test as part of the bindep 2.0.1 release today to create detached signatures for its sdist and wheel and serve them from tarballs.o.o alongside | 19:43 |
| fungi | er, successful test | 19:43 |
| pabelanger | excellent | 19:43 |
| jeblair | yaay! | 19:43 |
| anteaya | has anyone other than you attested so far fungi? | 19:43 |
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| fungi | anteaya: not to my knowledge | 19:43 |
| fungi | and soon expect that all our new release artifacts on tarballs.o.o | 19:43 |
| jeblair | anteaya: i think we were waiting for fungi to tell us he was ready | 19:43 |
| anteaya | thanks | 19:43 |
| ianw | fungi: cool, just use our most connected key? | 19:43 |
| anteaya | jeblair: ah, very good | 19:43 |
| fungi | ianw: yep | 19:44 |
| fungi | er, that all our new release artifacts on tarballs.o.o will start having these | 19:44 |
| fungi | also the same key is being used by dhellmann in tests now for automated signing of git tags | 19:44 |
| fungi | i think we have a couple of outstanding patches that need review | 19:44 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:artifact-signing+status:open | 19:45 |
| jeblair | fungi: signing01 creates the git tags? | 19:45 |
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| fungi | jeblair: right, from metadata approved by the release team in the releases repo | 19:45 |
| jeblair | cool, gtk | 19:45 |
| fungi | jeblair: or at least that's their thought behind it. they want to get out of teh business of pushing tags into gerrit themselves | 19:45 |
| jeblair | yep | 19:46 |
| fungi | anyway, the attestation instructions are hopefully pretty straightforward | 19:46 |
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| fungi | i included an example using gnu privacy guard v2 | 19:47 |
| fungi | but really it's just a matter of retrieving, signing and pushing up the keysig via whatever tool you're normally comfortable with | 19:47 |
| mordred | fungi: the instructions are straightforward - however, "Some" confused me for about 5 seconds, fwiw | 19:47 |
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| fungi | the important bit is making sure the fingerprint of teh key on puppetmaster.o.o matches the fingerprint of teh key you retrieved | 19:47 |
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| jeblair | mordred: the "Some Cycle" is a new HBO production based on a long running fantasy series | 19:48 |
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| fungi | mordred: yeah, the "Some" was a placeholder because i was trying to generalize this process to apply to each time we rotate our per-cycle keys | 19:49 |
| anteaya | how original | 19:49 |
| fungi | okay, any questions on this? if not i'll move on to open discussion time | 19:50 |
| mordred | fungi: yah - I understand that now. also, I have signed the key | 19:50 |
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| fungi | thanks! | 19:50 |
| mordred | thank YOU | 19:50 |
| fungi | #topic Open discussion | 19:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:51 | |
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| prometheanfire | mordred: depending on how close the ansible bits are to being used I'd rather work on adding gentoo support to them than puppet then ansible both | 19:51 |
| prometheanfire | also, hi | 19:51 |
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| mordred | hi prometheanfire - I think rcarrillocruz has started looking at that area | 19:52 |
| prometheanfire | cool, I'll try to remember to bug them | 19:53 |
| jeblair | i think we're confused about this again | 19:53 |
| jeblair | what ansible bits? | 19:54 |
| rcarrillocruz | jeblair: indeed | 19:54 |
| rcarrillocruz | :D | 19:54 |
| prometheanfire | the ones to replace puppet in nodepool images | 19:54 |
| rcarrillocruz | so mordred stuff is about creating base images | 19:54 |
| jeblair | there are no ansible bits to replace puppet in nodepool images | 19:54 |
| zaro | last week we talked about approving these changes for storyboard gerrit integration: https://review.openstack.org/330922 https://review.openstack.org/330925 and https://review.openstack.org/344519 | 19:54 |
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| rcarrillocruz | i thought the role was about images in general | 19:54 |
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| jeblair | prometheanfire: everything that you and i and others talked about this the last time is still the case | 19:54 |
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| rcarrillocruz | so yeah, we can use that to create base images and follow the plan as you explained to me about using plain dib elements and nothing puppet | 19:54 |
| zaro | it's still outstanding, was wondering whether if we can get eyes on it? | 19:55 |
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| fungi | zaro: i think i +2'd them all already, so probably if one other helpful core reviewer has time it'll be a quick review | 19:55 |
| prometheanfire | jeblair: just to be clear then, is the ansible work being done only for infra side? not nodepool side? | 19:55 |
| fungi | zaro: hrm, i haven't +2'd those. i'll review this afternoon | 19:56 |
| zaro | fungi: a few of them already have 2 +2 but no approval | 19:56 |
| anteaya | zaro: I think mordred felt that some of that series would require a gerrit restart or reindex | 19:56 |
| fungi | and approve ;) | 19:56 |
| fungi | zaro: oh, right, that was an outstanding question | 19:56 |
| anteaya | zaro: do any require a reindex? | 19:57 |
| fungi | the one that adds story tracking lookups implied possibly an addition to the search indexes, so does that require an offline reindexing? | 19:57 |
| jeblair | prometheanfire: i honestly don't know much about it. i think it's an experimental effort to see about using ansible to create base images for infra. i'm not certain that we have really discussed it as a group or decided it's a direction we want to go. | 19:57 |
| prometheanfire | jeblair: ah, k, guess it'd be further off then anyway and I should do puppety stuff | 19:58 |
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| jeblair | prometheanfire: that is, to create base images for our long running servers | 19:58 |
| zaro | fungi: none really needs reindex. 344519 will only work after reindex | 19:58 |
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| fungi | i've as of yet heard nothing to indicate that it would be sane to replace teh puppet bits in our image builds with ansible vs just some shell scripts | 19:58 |
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| fungi | zaro: okay, so if we want the feature implemented, we need to plan for a reindex outage (4+ hours or so) | 19:59 |
| prometheanfire | jeblair: ah, diferent then | 19:59 |
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| * Zara is really excited about gerrit integration! :D | 19:59 | |
| zaro | fungi: sure, that's accurate | 19:59 |
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| fungi | zaro: thanks. we'll make sure to incorporate that into planning for the restart | 20:00 |
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| Zara | \o/ | 20:00 |
| fungi | oh, we're out of time--thanks everyone! | 20:00 |
| fungi | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 2 20:00:38 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-08-02-19.04.html | 20:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-08-02-19.04.txt | 20:00 |
| bkero | o/ bye | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-08-02-19.04.log.html | 20:00 |
| ttx | o/ | 20:00 |
| fungi | all yours, ttx | 20:00 |
| annegent_ | o/ | 20:00 |
| * gothicmindfood lurks | 20:00 | |
| amrith | greetings from 36,000 feet | 20:01 |
| notmyname | here | 20:01 |
| ttx | dims, dhellmann, flaper87, johnthetubaguy, mestery, mtreinish, thingee, mordred, morgan, russellb, sdague : around ? | 20:01 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:01 |
| russellb | hi | 20:01 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:01 |
| thingee | o/ | 20:01 |
| devananda | o/ | 20:01 |
| dims | o/ | 20:01 |
| * mugsie lurks | 20:01 | |
| * jroll pokes his head in | 20:01 | |
| flaper87 | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 2 20:01:42 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:01 |
| ttx | Hello everyone! Our agenda for today: | 20:01 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:01 |
| * flaper87 bows and says hi | 20:01 | |
| ttx | (remember to use #info #idea and #link liberally to make for a more readable summary) | 20:02 |
| flaper87 | ++ | 20:02 |
| ttx | #topic Limited Use of Alternate Programming Languages vs. Policy and process for alternate programming languages | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Limited Use of Alternate Programming Languages vs. Policy and process for alternate programming languages (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| ttx | (NB: if the discussion gets too noisy we might switch to voice turns, but let's try simple first) | 20:02 |
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| ttx | We have two proposals on how we could selectively allow alternate programming languages | 20:02 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/339175 | 20:02 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/346243 | 20:02 |
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| ttx | The first one from dims I would summarize as "allow selectively after analysis" | 20:03 |
| ttx | The second one from notmyname I would summarize as "allow by default, get progress reports, potential veto before merge" | 20:03 |
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| ttx | Both introduce the concept of two tier of languages (official/supported vs. alternate/unsupported) as a way to clearly state what the "default" languages are. | 20:03 |
| thingee | that was my understanding of each as well | 20:03 |
| dims | good summary ttx | 20:03 |
| ttx | Both assume that we actually want to allow usage of such alternate languages whenever that usage is "warranted" (i.e. when the default languages can't be used to solve the issue at hand) | 20:03 |
| ttx | (rather than, say, find a way to artificially keep things written in another language outside of official "OpenStack") | 20:04 |
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| ttx | So maybe we should first discuss that (agree on the end goal), and if we do, then discuss the less painful and most efficient way to reach it | 20:04 |
| mtreinish | o/ | 20:04 |
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| mordred | o/ | 20:04 |
| ttx | (i.e. the best way to discourage gratuitous usage of alternate languages and limit team frustration when rejected) | 20:04 |
| ttx | So question to TC members to kick this off: how much do you like the idea of allowing usage of alternate languages whenever that usage is "warranted" ? | 20:04 |
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| mtreinish | ttx: define warranted | 20:05 |
| mtreinish | that's my issue with proposals like that because it's always kinda subjective | 20:05 |
| flaper87 | not much. My concerns remain and I think we'll have a hard time defining warranted objectively | 20:05 |
| ttx | mtreinish: as defined above: when the default languages can't be used to solve the issue at han | 20:05 |
| ttx | d | 20:05 |
| dims | one thing to add ttx, in my proposal, TC acts as a gatekeeper for new languages and the cross project team acts as keeper for allowing projects to use the blessed languages on a need basis | 20:05 |
| flaper87 | My concerns == community impact | 20:05 |
| russellb | i like the idea of allowing usage of alternative languages when warranted. (for some definition of warranted) | 20:06 |
| gordc | flaper87: community impact on the project or on openstack? | 20:06 |
| flaper87 | gordc: both ? | 20:06 |
| mordred | gordc: openstack | 20:06 |
| flaper87 | but yeha, mostly openstack | 20:06 |
| thingee | gordc: both | 20:06 |
| gordc | ack. | 20:07 |
| ttx | johnthetubaguy seems +1 on the intent if I read his comments correctly (he had to drop off the meeting) | 20:07 |
| mordred | so ... I don't have well structured thoughts here, even though the topic has been lurking for quite a while now | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | my reluctance to take this path is still based on the teams asking to go first. One team hasn't demonstrated to me that they need to use another tool, and the other team hasn't demonstrated that they have the community commitment to be the right group to establish best practices for a new tool. | 20:07 |
| prometheanfire | how are we going to track the dep trees of these new languages, will this need to be done in requirements? | 20:07 |
| devananda | after a quick skim of the current state of both specs, i don't see a clear and objective definition of how the TC can decide what is or is not "warranted" | 20:07 |
| gordc | if it's openstack, i'm assuming it's always going to have some non-trivial impact. | 20:08 |
| notmyname | hasn't the idea of alternate languages already come up when javascript was added to python? | 20:08 |
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| mordred | notmyname: no, not really | 20:08 |
| ttx | notmyname: I think it was more discussed when we decided to keep Horizon "in" OpenStack | 20:08 |
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| mordred | javascript is not an alternate language for writing openstack services | 20:09 |
| ttx | and JS being grandfathered in as a result | 20:09 |
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| flaper87 | mordred: ++ | 20:09 |
| annegent_ | to me, the line is about REST API services also | 20:09 |
| mordred | I do not think JS and openstack is a relevant comparison, grandfathered or no | 20:09 |
| dims | mordred : ++ | 20:09 |
| notmyname | mordred: horizon isn't an openstack service? | 20:09 |
| ttx | yeah, I don't place Go in the same group as JS (or YAML for the matter) | 20:09 |
| mordred | annegent_: yes | 20:09 |
| annegent_ | the "pain outweighs gains" warranted line | 20:09 |
| mordred | notmyname: it does not implement a server process in javascript | 20:09 |
| ttx | basically we have one language for one task currently | 20:09 |
| annegent_ | er, maybe I mean that the other way 'round | 20:09 |
| mugsie | well, just to play devils advocate ... there is nothing in the policy that blocks a nodejs server project ... | 20:09 |
| mordred | notmyname: it uses javascript in browser to interact with the REST API it has that is written in python | 20:09 |
| devananda | mordred's point is key -- and also goes to the other languages in your proposal, notmyname | 20:09 |
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| annegent_ | mugsie there is policy that blocks that now. | 20:09 |
| devananda | bash and yaml are languages, sure, but have not been used to write an openstack service | 20:10 |
| mordred | we have PLENTY of non-python code in openstack | 20:10 |
| notmyname | I think my point is that the supported language set used to be len 1, and now it's len > 1. so the idea of "only python is sufficient for openstack" seems to have already been crossed off the list | 20:10 |
| notmorgan | devananda: if you write an openstack service in yaml (only), I'll be so impressed. | 20:10 |
| annegent_ | #link http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20150901-programming-languages.html | 20:10 |
| mordred | all of that code is in service either of specific communities (ruby for puppet/chef) or domain specific piurposes (browser actions) | 20:10 |
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| jroll | notmorgan: I need deva doing useful things, please don't challenge him :D | 20:10 |
| ttx | yes, so there seems to be room for allowing extra languages whenever Python can really not be used (think JS) | 20:11 |
| mordred | notmyname: I can see why you'd think that, but I disagree | 20:11 |
| mtreinish | jroll: but I kinda want to see a service all in yaml too :) | 20:11 |
| mordred | notmyname: and I refer to my previous 2 sentences | 20:11 |
| notmorgan | jroll: *shiftyeyes* | 20:11 |
| jroll | hah | 20:11 |
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| dhellmann | could we cut the chatter today, please? | 20:11 |
| * edleafe is back home | 20:12 | |
| mordred | dhellmann: ++ | 20:12 |
| * jroll apologizes | 20:12 | |
| ttx | The way I see it, we are OK with adding languages where Python can't be used. If Go was used to implement a piece that handled disk i/o in Swift I think we wouldn't have the same discussion -- the issue here is that it also is used for code that we usually run Python for (the REST API) | 20:12 |
| flaper87 | ttx: are we waiting for other votes from other TC members? How can we move the discussion forwarD? | 20:12 |
| flaper87 | ops | 20:12 |
| flaper87 | you faster than me | 20:12 |
| mordred | it has been and continues to be my position that if we're going to start rewriting parts of openstack services in not-python, it should be as part of an effort to completely rewrite everything | 20:12 |
| notmyname | ttx: an internal api that happens to be rest-ish right now and may or may not be in the future | 20:13 |
| ttx | hence the risk of contagion to other services and the threat of gratuitous usage | 20:13 |
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| russellb | and if we were rewriting everything, i dont' think language would be problem #1 to deal with | 20:13 |
| mordred | it is my opinion that the cost of just having some bits of some services in python and some in go is not a clear enough win to justify the cost | 20:13 |
| mugsie | so, is the problem the people who asked to use the language, or the possibility of the new language. the former seems to be the bone of contention for some people | 20:13 |
| notmyname | ttx: that's what we've been working on in swift in golang | 20:13 |
| ttx | notmyname: good point -- do you mean there wouldn't be a rewrite of the proxy server in Go ? | 20:13 |
| thingee | russellb: +1 | 20:13 |
| mordred | russellb: ++ | 20:14 |
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| notmyname | ttx: I'm not interested in that right now. IMO there's a ton of other stuff we should be focusing on, and the ecosystem cost to dropping python (actually, wsgi) from the proxy server would be huge | 20:14 |
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| notmyname | ttx: clarification: I'm not interested in a golang proxy server. I am interested in this discussion and your thoughts | 20:15 |
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| ttx | flaper87: to answer your question, I want to have an idea of how much we support the end goal of those two proposals. We ended up the previous run with the idea that we could explore selectively adf | 20:15 |
| ttx | adding* | 20:15 |
| ttx | rather than blanket adding | 20:15 |
| thingee | as from the thread kevin fox posted on issues that pre-date big tent ... there are some other priority technical issues to be dealt with | 20:15 |
| ttx | Those two proposals propose selective add | 20:15 |
| ttx | so are we ok with that goal ? No point in debating the details of each if we aren't. | 20:15 |
| notmyname | mugsie: good question :-) | 20:16 |
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| ttx | Personally I'm fine with the idea, but would like the implementation to prevent contagion | 20:16 |
| mordred | ttx: I am not on board with that goal, personally, no | 20:16 |
| flaper87 | ttx: you might want to use a #vote here, I guess | 20:16 |
| flaper87 | That way I think it'd be clearer | 20:16 |
| mordred | so, consider me in the "no, I don't think it's worth debating details" camp | 20:16 |
| ttx | ok, let me set that up | 20:16 |
| flaper87 | and it'd also stay logged/summarized | 20:16 |
| devananda | fwiw, I am still not convinced we need to add another language, like Go, within the openstack namespace, for implementing components of the services that a) are implementable in python b) could be implemented as an external library and then consumed by existing python | 20:17 |
| flaper87 | I'd also try to avoid the "if warranted" part in the question as that's, imho, not relevant to this vote | 20:17 |
| mugsie | flaper87: ++ | 20:17 |
| annegent_ | I'd also say I'm unconvinced of a warranted need for a service rewrite in Golang. | 20:17 |
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| mordred | flaper87: ++ | 20:17 |
| ttx | #startvote Do we agree with the end goal of selectively allowing extra languages in OpenStack whenever Python ends up not being not the optimal tool for the task? yes, no | 20:17 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: Do we agree with the end goal of selectively allowing extra languages in OpenStack whenever Python ends up not being not the optimal tool for the task? Valid vote options are yes, no. | 20:17 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 20:18 |
| edleafe | devananda: +1 | 20:18 |
| ttx | does that work ? | 20:18 |
| mordred | ttx: actually ... | 20:18 |
| mordred | I think it would be worth being clearer | 20:18 |
| ttx | #undo | 20:18 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0x7f5bbf2ca950> | 20:18 |
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| mordred | since as notmyname points out we already have other lnaguages | 20:18 |
| dhellmann | you might have to endvote first? that removed a link... | 20:18 |
| russellb | heh, that undo didn't quite work .. | 20:18 |
| ttx | #endvote | 20:18 |
| openstack | Voted on "Do we agree with the end goal of selectively allowing extra languages in OpenStack whenever Python ends up not being not the optimal tool for the task?" Results are | 20:18 |
| ttx | sigh | 20:18 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/346243 | 20:18 |
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| ttx | le sigh | 20:18 |
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| mordred | I think the thing we're talking about is specifically key/necessary components of services | 20:18 |
| flaper87 | "Do we agree with the end goal of selectively allowing extra languages in OpenStack?" | 20:19 |
| dhellmann | #link http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20150901-programming-languages.html | 20:19 |
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| ttx | mordred: propose alt text | 20:19 |
| mordred | "Do we agree with the end goal of selectively allowing extra languages in OpenStack for the purposes of writing services?" | 20:19 |
| flaper87 | mordred: ++ | 20:19 |
| * devananda deletes what he was typing | 20:19 | |
| devananda | mordred: ++ | 20:19 |
| dims | "when absolutely necessary"? :) | 20:19 |
| ttx | mordred: dedfine services, as the objectserver is an internal node in Swift... would that count ? | 20:19 |
| mordred | ttx: yes | 20:20 |
| ttx | Would the dns proxy from designate count ? | 20:20 |
| russellb | "However we should not limit OpenStack service projects to these three programming languages in the future, as it would either mean using suboptimal tools, not being able to address specific problem spaces, or artificially excluding specific project teams." | 20:20 |
| mordred | it's a key/required part of the swift service | 20:20 |
| devananda | russellb: three? | 20:20 |
| russellb | devananda: quote from the resolution dhellmann linked, bash/JS/Python | 20:20 |
| mordred | that hummingbird is not the rest api itself does not make it any more essential in a world where it's merged, to swift as a service | 20:20 |
| ttx | mordred: ok, so services/nodes | 20:20 |
| mordred | s/more/less/ | 20:20 |
| ttx | let me cast that one | 20:21 |
| mordred | sorry for that mistype -it really does change the meaning of the sentence | 20:21 |
| mugsie | ttx: miniDNS is also a required sub service of designate | 20:21 |
| mordred | mugsie: we do not write miniDNS | 20:21 |
| mugsie | designate does | 20:21 |
| mordred | oh - is that the go dns thing? | 20:21 |
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| mugsie | designate-mdns is (currently) a pythoin DNS server | 20:21 |
| mordred | so yes - I agree, it's the equivilent example | 20:22 |
| mugsie | mdns stands for miniDNS | 20:22 |
| annegent_ | is miniDNS something that can be reviewed and packaged separately? | 20:22 |
| ttx | #startvote Do we agree with the end goal of selectively allowing extra languages in OpenStack for the purpose of writing services? yes, no | 20:22 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: Do we agree with the end goal of selectively allowing extra languages in OpenStack for the purpose of writing services? Valid vote options are yes, no. | 20:22 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 20:22 |
| mordred | #vote no | 20:22 |
| flaper87 | #vote no | 20:22 |
| mtreinish | #vote no | 20:22 |
| ttx | #vote yes | 20:22 |
| thingee | annegent_: this was our proposal to have the separate swift component written in go be packaged separately. | 20:22 |
| dims | #vote yes | 20:22 |
| dhellmann | #vote no | 20:22 |
| thingee | #vote no | 20:23 |
| russellb | #vote yes | 20:23 |
| ttx | (for some serious amount of "selectively" | 20:23 |
| ttx | ) | 20:23 |
| annegent_ | #vote no | 20:23 |
| * edleafe wishes he could vote... | 20:23 | |
| sdague | #vote no | 20:23 |
| ttx | #endvote | 20:23 |
| openstack | Voted on "Do we agree with the end goal of selectively allowing extra languages in OpenStack for the purpose of writing services?" Results are | 20:23 |
| openstack | yes (3): dims, ttx, russellb | 20:23 |
| openstack | no (7): annegent_, mtreinish, thingee, sdague, mordred, dhellmann, flaper87 | 20:23 |
| ttx | OK, so far from consensus with heavy leaning on NO | 20:24 |
| ttx | My next question then would be... | 20:24 |
| ttx | How do we address Swift needs ? What is their next step ? | 20:24 |
| notmyname | fantastic question | 20:24 |
| ttx | They clearly rujn into an issue where Python don't get them the disk i/o behavior they need | 20:24 |
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| thingee | ttx: when this was originally proposed, the TC recommended it be packaged separate for the component that warrants a different language. | 20:25 |
| russellb | artificial code split of in/out of OpenStack is kind of lame IMO... | 20:25 |
| jbryce | russellb: ++ | 20:25 |
| mugsie | russellb: ++ | 20:25 |
| edleafe | Wasn't the suggestion that hummingbird be packaged separately rejected becuase it would "fracture the team"? | 20:25 |
| mugsie | yes | 20:25 |
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| dougwig | russellb: so is an inconsistent policy in this case. | 20:25 |
| ttx | russellb: yes, I'm not happy with that solution either | 20:25 |
| devananda | thingee: that has been my suggestion a couple times, but it creates a significant impact on any developer(s) writing the go-side of that | 20:25 |
| ttx | All those who voted no, would the "external" development be your answer to the "next step" question, or do you have other ideas ? | 20:25 |
| thingee | devananda: for the folks who have leaned on separate packaging, it was to reduce the impact by having it be on a project, not the entire community. | 20:26 |
| notmyname | beyond the team impact (which would be huge), it would also have a significantly high technical cost, and beyond that, it would force us into a situation of presenting to users an upstream "openstack" version that isn't supported/maintained or just flat out missing | 20:26 |
| mordred | ttx: IFF the external development item can be installed via normal distro package mangaers in a way that allows for pip + other-requirements to express the need | 20:26 |
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| edleafe | notmyname: there are lots of requirements that are used by projects that are not part of OpenStack | 20:27 |
| tdasilva | does "external" development mean completely outside of the openstack namespace? | 20:27 |
| mordred | ttx: if the thing is an external component that is onlyu installable by cloning a git repo and running a build process somewhere, I do not think that would be particularly useful | 20:27 |
| edleafe | that doesn't make them any less 'upstream' | 20:27 |
| dhellmann | tdasilva : no | 20:27 |
| ttx | tdasilva: no, just outside of TC's reach | 20:27 |
| flaper87 | ttx: that would be the solution I'd propose too. | 20:27 |
| ttx | so smae tooling | 20:27 |
| flaper87 | tdasilva: CI/gerrit/etc will still be available | 20:28 |
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| ttx | which kinda reduces the technical pain, but the lameness stays imho | 20:28 |
| tdasilva | so we would break apart a repo like openstack/swift and openstack/hummingbird just because....seems really lame | 20:28 |
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| jbryce | for me it’s not just about hummingbird, it’s about losing the thing that has made openstack work as a competitive maketplace of ideas. tools will change and grow. many of the things we use for our great development process around python didn’t exist in their form before we put them together over the last few years. future innovation is going to happen in languages other than python and that can happen in openstack or | 20:28 |
| jbryce | outside of openstack, wherever those contributors feel welcome | 20:28 |
| russellb | lame++ :) | 20:28 |
| mugsie | i will give an example from designates side - for us to add a new record type (A, AAAA, CNAME, etc) we would have to release a version of designate that created the tables, then a version of mdns that could render it to wire format, then a version of designate that used the version of mdns with tghe new code | 20:28 |
| devananda | same tooling, with the end goal of being packaged by various distros and installable via apt/yum/... would be technically feasible and yet still alienate that team | 20:28 |
| russellb | jbryce: ++ | 20:28 |
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| mordred | another option is to write performance critical bits in cython or something similar | 20:29 |
| jbryce | sometimes it feels to me like when a proprietary company gets really stuck on the decision of what to do when they have a cash machine on an existing product while facing a disruption from a cheaper competitor | 20:29 |
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| ttx | There is another solution, which is to grant Swift a specific exception, but it's also lame because it's just one more way Swift is special, and this time it's not coming from them | 20:29 |
| jbryce | mordred: the thing is, developers in our community already wrote a more performant version. they wrote winning code and a winning implementation | 20:29 |
| mtreinish | mordred: that is the normal pattern for something like this | 20:30 |
| mugsie | mordred: that is a possiblity - but are we allowed? | 20:30 |
| mugsie | its C, whihc is not on the list | 20:30 |
| edleafe | mordred: you could write them in go and compile to a Python module | 20:30 |
| mugsie | which comes back to the "ever have a new language vote" that just happened | 20:30 |
| russellb | right, not sure why that's different or better (Python C bindings) | 20:30 |
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| dougwig | if you're setting the expectation of non-python projects in infra as non-openstack projects, what kind of priority level for support will there be for breakages? i would implicitly assume it's less than official projects? | 20:31 |
| ttx | dougwig: best effort I would say, yes | 20:31 |
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| mugsie | which some of the critical gate infra structure might rely on | 20:31 |
| jbryce | the thing that can keep an open community from falling into that proprietary company trap (milk the cash cow or disrupt yourself because someone else will do it if you don’t), is that we don’t have the income imperative and we can develop these technologies in the open and see which approaches are working or not. | 20:32 |
| mugsie | i.e. if there is a bug in hummingbird and it is an unoffical project - but it blocks the gate for $reason - what do we do? | 20:32 |
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| annegent_ | jbryce my sense is that it's the plugability that I struggle with. If you can't make the golang piece plugable it means you're abandoning the other service implementation? | 20:32 |
| mordred | mugsie: actually, cythion is done in a python syntax, and pip/setuptools deals with it just fine | 20:32 |
| mordred | so to me it's still 'python' | 20:32 |
| mugsie | mordred: OK, I would not have made that distinction. | 20:33 |
| annegent_ | jbryce which is what I read from notmyname "presenting to users an upstream "openstack" version that isn't supported/maintained or just flat out missing" | 20:33 |
| mordred | jbryce: I hear that argument, I really do. I'm not ignoring it. just in my personal best judgement it is not currently worth the pain | 20:33 |
| annegent_ | jbryce it's still too black and white. | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | my concerns about doing this, in this way, starting with this team, are too long for irc, so: http://paste.openstack.org/show/545744/ | 20:34 |
| ttx | My desired outcome here is that we find a solution for Swift that lets them use the tech they need, but without creating a contagion effect of gratuitous rewrites throughout OpenStack services. I'd also like an outcome where other Python coders in our community would go and help Designate write their stuff in Python (or allow them to use Go too if that ends up not being possible, but I don't | 20:34 |
| ttx | believe in that). Feels like I'm a minority though | 20:34 |
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| mordred | jbryce: I do not believe we have achieved the success we have achieved by letting everyone do everything in whatever way they feel. in fact, I think we have achieved success in spite of the amount of divergence we already have. I do not believe introduction of more divergence will lead to greater success | 20:34 |
| ttx | #link http://paste.openstack.org/show/545744/ | 20:34 |
| russellb | ttx: i'm with you. | 20:34 |
| mordred | that is, of course, merely my point of view, and as always, I'm happy to defer to others happily should I wind up to be wrong | 20:35 |
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| mugsie | dhellmann: so, your conceres are still the teams, not the "should we have another language" ? | 20:35 |
| russellb | but i'm not getting the feeling that any positions are changing here | 20:35 |
| mugsie | concerns* | 20:35 |
| dhellmann | mugsie : both, but this is why I'm comfortable sticking with "no" for now | 20:36 |
| devananda | jbryce: innovation is happening in many languages, not just golang or python, but our development process/tooling is, as you pointed out, pushing the envelope of what can be done with python. allowing in another language doesn't immediately create the same benefits for that languages' developers | 20:36 |
| dhellmann | mugsie : all of the community division and technical divergence concerns I have would be addressed better by a team that had proven willing to collaborate on those areas in the past | 20:36 |
| sdague | mordred: I think I mostly agree with you there, especially as someone that has wrangled with a lot of that divergence (though less so than dhellmann) | 20:36 |
| JayF | devananda: jbryce: My fear; and I think the underlying fear in jbryce's comments, is that we'll lose smart folks who want to point their brain in that direction, rather than winning them over to the "OpenStack way" | 20:37 |
| jbryce | devananda: but goland is the other language where innovation is happening amount OUR developers already. right now. dramatically improving the operation of a core service | 20:37 |
| devananda | jbryce: in fact, trying to enable the same scale of development process we have done in Python for other languages will take away resources from what we're doing with pyhton today | 20:37 |
| mordred | jbryce: it improves the operational performance. it does not improve its alignment with the operation of the other openstack services | 20:37 |
| jbryce | devananda: that’s assuming that making an inclusive decision here will not include anyone else who wants to pitch in on those things | 20:37 |
| ttx | So my read of the TC today is "the majority of us don't want to selectively add alternate languages, components in another language should be written as unofficial repositories and be depended on" -- is that correct ? | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | ttx: that is my position, for now | 20:38 |
| flaper87 | ttx: yes | 20:38 |
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| annegent_ | mine as well | 20:38 |
| mordred | ttx: yes | 20:38 |
| ttx | I'll info it then | 20:38 |
| mugsie | dhellmann: what could be done to help move your position? | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | mugsie : address the concerns I've described in that pastebin | 20:38 |
| ttx | #info the majority of us don't want to selectively add alternate languages, components in another language should be written as unofficial repositories and be depended on | 20:39 |
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| annegent_ | mugsie I won't speak for dhellmann but addressing the concerns listed there would help show a willingness and attitude shift. | 20:39 |
| dhellmann | mugsie : and not just ticking the boxes, but demonstrating a difference in approach over the long term | 20:39 |
| mordred | annegent_, dhellmann ++ | 20:39 |
| ttx | still need to read that pastebin | 20:39 |
| mugsie | dhellmann: and for designate - I would think we cover most if not all of these | 20:39 |
| russellb | what we call "in" vs "out" of openstack is feeling more and more artificial and meaningless ... this position makes that worse | 20:40 |
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| dhellmann | mugsie : in the email thread where this came up someone showed significant performance improvements with what seemed like quite small changes to designate, so you haven't met the technical bar, in my mind | 20:40 |
| jbryce | russellb: ++ | 20:40 |
| ttx | russellb: worse, but not unfixable in the future | 20:40 |
| mugsie | dhellmann: they were not "quite small" | 20:41 |
| dhellmann | russellb : my position isn't set in stone. this is how I feel today, based on what I've seen | 20:41 |
| ttx | i.e. having a separate repo for the Go piece kinda makes sense to me | 20:41 |
| mordred | russellb: same with dhellmann | 20:41 |
| mordred | I could totally be convinced | 20:41 |
| dhellmann | mugsie : ok, my impression was that some were things like moving database queries out of tight loops | 20:41 |
| mordred | I just have not yet been convinced | 20:41 |
| ttx | i.e. one language per repo | 20:41 |
| ttx | that's sane practice anyway | 20:41 |
| dhellmann | mugsie : I have not tried to dig into the patches myself, so I may be completely misunderstanding | 20:41 |
| notmyname | ttx: shall we drop rst and yaml and bahs from repos that include python? | 20:41 |
| mordred | notmyname: no, and you know that's not the case | 20:42 |
| mtreinish | ttx: yeah, that would make things much easier to swallow for me too | 20:42 |
| mtreinish | I work in some dual language repos, it makes things more difficult | 20:42 |
| mugsie | dhellmann: there was never any patches. just numbers, and a direction to "go use caching" | 20:42 |
| ttx | notmyname: ask distro packagers (that's where my belief comes from) and they will tell you the same thing | 20:42 |
| mugsie | which, for a component that can be global distributed is .... interesting | 20:42 |
| devananda | notmyname: that's a strawman. rst and yaml are not service languages, they're documentation and configuration. | 20:43 |
| annegent_ | russellb jbryce in and out, it's a false dichotomy that I won't buy into. I'm definitely willing to keep discussing and become convinced of a solution. | 20:43 |
| dougwig | this entire discussion feels to me like we are letting day-to-day operational concerns define the vision and scope of openstack, which feels entirely backwards to me. IMO. | 20:44 |
| edleafe | annegent_: +1 | 20:44 |
| JayF | To be clear; an alternative not yet mentioned here would be for swift to voluntarily choose to not be an official openstack project anymore as a whole, correct? | 20:44 |
| jbryce | annegent_: you just told them it’s out | 20:44 |
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| mordred | re: in and out - I don't think this has created a false dichotomy at all. I think that we've said "we want to be able to install openstack via a combination of pip and distro packaging" | 20:44 |
| ttx | So the way forward that the majority recommends for Swift is, if I read right, to land the alternate object server in Go (hummingbird) into a specific repo and make it unofficial for the time being | 20:45 |
| mordred | many of our python projects have dependencies that are not written in python - but we consume them from stanard linux distro sources | 20:45 |
| mordred | where those components is developed, whether in openstack's repos or elsewhere, is irrelevant | 20:45 |
| flaper87 | JayF: it wasn't mentioned here but it was mentioned when this discussion started. I'm not advocating for that, though. | 20:45 |
| ttx | I have the feeling this is not the last time we discuss this | 20:45 |
| flaper87 | ttx: ++ | 20:45 |
| mugsie | dougwig: ++ | 20:45 |
| flaper87 | ttx: but that's good, isn't it ? | 20:45 |
| edleafe | Please don't forget the middle ground of gopy - https://github.com/go-python/gopy | 20:46 |
| * flaper87 has no problems with revisitng this again in the future | 20:46 | |
| ttx | yes, it's good, just not sure how practical the proposed way forward is for Swift | 20:46 |
| jbryce | mordred: i disagree that it’s irrelevant. but we may need to be on a beach to really have this discussion. = ) | 20:46 |
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| flaper87 | ttx: It's a start, for sure. | 20:46 |
| mordred | jbryce: :) | 20:46 |
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| ttx | We need to switch topic | 20:47 |
| mordred | jbryce: I think what I'm trying to say is that if people are hearing a weird false distinction, then we're communicating something wrong | 20:47 |
| mordred | the actual thing is quite clear and distinc to me | 20:47 |
| dhellmann | mugsie : you're right, I don't see actual patches in http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-May/094568.html | 20:47 |
| mordred | jbryce: I'd be more than happy to use you as a sounding board to figure out who we're being unclear though | 20:47 |
| tdasilva | I just don't understand how this decision helps with all the arguments being made. In the end, swift will be forced to create another repo, where we you have swift developers in reviewing/writing code in both. It won' t really help with the 'community impact' anyway... | 20:47 |
| mugsie | dhellmann: fwiw i asked - I was quite interested in them | 20:48 |
| ttx | tdasilva: I think the idea is taht it will prevent contagion and further fragmentation | 20:48 |
| tdasilva | will it? | 20:48 |
| mordred | tdasilva: we're focused on the total of openstack developers broadly, not the swift developers specifically. yes, this will suck for swift. sometimes things suck for one part of a larger whole | 20:48 |
| dhellmann | mugsie : good, and I expect there's a lot more to the story that I haven't heard | 20:48 |
| ttx | tdasilva: I'm not convinced, which is why I voted for some sort of compromise | 20:48 |
| gordc | is there a requirement that they maintain both the 'unofficial' go version and the 'official' python version? | 20:49 |
| flaper87 | The compromise I voted for is to start with this and evaluate the growth and impact as it comes | 20:49 |
| flaper87 | Also, what dhellmann said in the pastebin | 20:49 |
| ttx | gordc: no | 20:49 |
| tdasilva | mordred: it's not just that it sucks for swift, but we might be forcing other projects to follow the same route. | 20:49 |
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| ttx | gordc: a lot of things in openstack depend on components written in other languages outside teh official projects | 20:49 |
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| ttx | nothing says 'everything has to be python' | 20:50 |
| mordred | tdasilva: my desire would be that they learn from this experience and don't get themselves into such a rough place | 20:50 |
| flaper87 | mordred: ++ | 20:50 |
| ttx | ok, next topic | 20:50 |
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| notmyname | mordred: nice project you got there. shame if something were to happen to it | 20:50 |
| ttx | #topic Adds a docs: URL entry to projects.yaml | 20:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Adds a docs: URL entry to projects.yaml (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:50 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/316396 | 20:50 |
| annegent_ | thanks dhellmann for the patche | 20:50 |
| annegent_ | patching | 20:50 |
| ttx | this one is close but it's a rebase hell so I think we can quickly rebase / review / merge it in-meeting and be done | 20:51 |
| mtreinish | I had a question inline, it lgtm though | 20:51 |
| annegent_ | notmyname threats do not have a place here. | 20:51 |
| annegent_ | mtreinish ok | 20:51 |
| annegent_ | mtreinish I can look | 20:51 |
| mtreinish | it was just about projects that use developer/ for everything not just contribution docs | 20:51 |
| * flaper87 not a super fan of the missing `api` items but he's got no strong opinions there | 20:51 | |
| dhellmann | mtreinish : that's a good point | 20:52 |
| annegent_ | mtreinish oh right. that's not what we're looking for _quite_ yet, mostly need to get a handle on the sizes. | 20:52 |
| mugsie | it is a lot of projects | 20:52 |
| notmyname | apologies, my last comment wasn't meant to be a threat at all. it didnt' translate in text | 20:52 |
| ttx | notmyname: I read it as joke fwiw | 20:53 |
| mugsie | and linking to designate/developer has a lot of completly unreleated docs | 20:53 |
| annegent_ | such as, Oslo has 28 of the 80 contributor docs links | 20:53 |
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| mtreinish | annegent_: size as in the number of things that have things up on docs.o.o/developer? | 20:53 |
| ttx | annegent_: given how difficult it is to merge things without triggering a merge conflict, I'd rather approve it now if we can | 20:53 |
| dhellmann | ttx: ++ | 20:54 |
| mugsie | should this not link to the actual contributor docs? | 20:54 |
| annegent_ | mtreinish mugsie yeah, basically a content audit when there's 80 projects, what percentage are developer-centric? Turns out quite a lot on a page basis. | 20:54 |
| thingee | ttx: +1 | 20:54 |
| * dims just finished reading the pastebin | 20:54 | |
| mtreinish | ttx: I was fine with landing it as is, since it helps. I was just worried about the messaging around contributor (or whatever it was) | 20:54 |
| annegent_ | ttx yay yes | 20:54 |
| flaper87 | ttx: ++ | 20:54 |
| mtreinish | but we can fix that in a followup | 20:54 |
| ttx | ok, let's merge it now then, please pile on +1s | 20:54 |
| annegent_ | mtreinish yes, I do want to address that eventually... | 20:54 |
| dhellmann | mugsie : with this patch in place, I think annegent_ could ask teams to "fix" their links either in this repo, or by getting publishing working, or both | 20:54 |
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| annegent_ | mugsie also I think it might help us think more about "frameworks" for docs rather than "write the docs" | 20:55 |
| mugsie | dhellmann: annegent_ ack | 20:55 |
| mugsie | annegent_: you read my mind :) | 20:55 |
| annegent_ | :) check! | 20:55 |
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| mtreinish | dhellmann: did you mean to -1 the patch? There wasn't a reason on it | 20:56 |
| dhellmann | mtreinish : no, I can't remember how to use gerrit | 20:56 |
| annegent_ | heh | 20:56 |
| mtreinish | dhellmann: heh, that's what I figure it was :) | 20:56 |
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| dhellmann | mtreinish : thanks for pointing that out :-) | 20:57 |
| ttx | ok, merging now | 20:57 |
| ttx | hopefully | 20:57 |
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| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:57 | |
| ttx | I'll miss next week meeting again -- flaper87 still interested in replacing me ? | 20:57 |
| annegent_ | thanks all, whew! | 20:57 |
| flaper87 | ttx: yup, I'll be around | 20:58 |
| amrith | annegent_ ++ | 20:58 |
| dims | dhellmann : will you be posting that pastebin somewhere? Mailing list? gerrit comment? | 20:58 |
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| dhellmann | I would appreciate some more feedback on the "goals" process proposal: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/349068/ | 20:58 |
| ttx | Anything else, anyone ? | 20:58 |
| flaper87 | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/342069/ | 20:58 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I was a bit surprised at the initial reaction on it... A lot of people seemed to conflate defining a few release themes into some intolerable intrusion in project design territory | 20:58 |
| dhellmann | dims : I hadn't planned to post it anywhere other than these meeting logs | 20:58 |
| flaper87 | round-table discussions for meetbot | 20:58 |
| flaper87 | needs some love | 20:58 |
| * flaper87 will ping infra folks | 20:59 | |
| flaper87 | mordred: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/342069/ | 20:59 |
| flaper87 | :P | 20:59 |
| dims | dhellmann : the content may get lost :( | 20:59 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I was less surprised by that than the concern about being kicked out immediately | 20:59 |
| russellb | flaper87: cool patch :) | 20:59 |
| flaper87 | russellb: thanks :D | 20:59 |
| dhellmann | dims : ok, I'll post it as a comment on your patch | 20:59 |
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| dims | thanks dhellmann ! | 20:59 |
| * flaper87 will add more to it as soon as the first version lands | 20:59 | |
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| anteaya | thanks ttx | 21:00 |
| amrith | dhellmann, yes, surprising reactions. | 21:00 |
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| ttx | ok, end of meeting, thanks everyone | 21:00 |
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| russellb | bye, all | 21:00 |
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| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:00 | |
| dims | thanks ttx | 21:00 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 2 21:00:41 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-08-02-20.01.html | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-08-02-20.01.txt | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-08-02-20.01.log.html | 21:00 |
| amrith | thx ttx | 21:00 |
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