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| hongbin_ | #startmeeting zun | 03:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 9 03:00:09 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is hongbin_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 03:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 03:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'zun' | 03:00 |
| hongbin_ | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun#Agenda_for_2016-08-09_0300_UTC Today's agenda | 03:00 |
| hongbin_ | #topic Roll Call | 03:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:00 | |
| Namrata | Namrata | 03:00 |
| shubhams | shubham | 03:00 |
| mkrai | Madhuri Kumari | 03:00 |
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| Wenzhi | Wenzhi | 03:00 |
| yanyanhu | hi, yanyan is here | 03:00 |
| itzdilip | Dilip | 03:01 |
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| vikasc | vikas | 03:01 |
| flwang | o/ | 03:01 |
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| hongbin_ | Thanks for joining the meeting Namrata shubhams mkrai Wenzhi yanyanhu itzdilip vikasc flwang | 03:01 |
| hongbin_ | #topic Announcements | 03:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:01 | |
| hongbin_ | I have no announcement, anyone has? | 03:01 |
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| hongbin_ | #topic Review Action Items | 03:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Action Items (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:01 | |
| hongbin_ | none | 03:01 |
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| hongbin_ | #topic Runtimes API design (mkrai) | 03:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Runtimes API design (mkrai) (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:02 | |
| hongbin_ | mkrai: ^^ | 03:02 |
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| mkrai | I have tested the api patch and it is working for all apis except for container-show command | 03:02 |
| mkrai | I have uploaded the patch in zunclient for all container related command | 03:03 |
| mkrai | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/352357/ | 03:03 |
| hongbin_ | Nice | 03:03 |
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| mkrai | Everyone please review the patch | 03:04 |
| hongbin_ | What is wrong with the show command though? | 03:04 |
| mkrai | The container controller patch needs a revision which I will do after meeting | 03:04 |
| hongbin_ | sure | 03:04 |
| mkrai | hongbin_, Issue is with response being an object | 03:04 |
| mkrai | It should not be a difficult issue | 03:05 |
| mkrai | I will fix it today | 03:05 |
| hongbin_ | sounds good | 03:05 |
| mkrai | Rest of the commands are working fine :) | 03:05 |
| mkrai | Please feel free to test the APIs and post your comments | 03:05 |
| mkrai | hongbin_, I have also updated your compute patch | 03:06 |
| hongbin_ | mkrai: Yes, I saw that. It looks good | 03:06 |
| mkrai | Yes it is working now | 03:06 |
| mkrai | That's all from my side | 03:07 |
| hongbin_ | Thanks mkrai . | 03:07 |
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| hongbin_ | Any question about the runtime API? | 03:07 |
| hongbin_ | #topic Nova integration (Namrata) | 03:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Nova integration (Namrata) (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:08 | |
| hongbin_ | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/nova-integration The BP | 03:08 |
| hongbin_ | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-containers-nova-integration The etherpad | 03:08 |
| hongbin_ | Namrata: ^^ | 03:08 |
| Namrata | I am working on the specs of nova integration | 03:08 |
| Namrata | and will submit it by this week | 03:08 |
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| hongbin_ | Great | 03:09 |
| mkrai | Namrata, let us know if you need any help on that | 03:09 |
| Namrata | yeah sure | 03:09 |
| Namrata | Thanks mkrai | 03:09 |
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| hongbin_ | Namrata: Could you tell us your general thoughs about the design? | 03:10 |
| Namrata | I will include both the implementation details which we discussed in last meeting | 03:11 |
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| Namrata | And as of now we don't of scheduler so we will consider Nova's scheduler only | 03:11 |
| Namrata | And the driver will work same as ironic driver | 03:11 |
| hongbin_ | OK | 03:12 |
| hongbin_ | I remembered we discussed two approach at the last meeting | 03:12 |
| hongbin_ | 1. Ironic approach (use nova shceduler) | 03:12 |
| Namrata | Yeah i will write both the implemenatations in the spec | 03:12 |
| hongbin_ | 2. VMWare approach (disable nova scheduler) | 03:13 |
| hongbin_ | En, ok | 03:13 |
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| mkrai | hongbin_, Is there a way to disable scheduler? | 03:13 |
| hongbin_ | mkrai: Just use Nova as a proxy | 03:13 |
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| hongbin_ | Nova -> ZUn API -> Zun scheduler -> Zun compute | 03:14 |
| mkrai | Ok got it | 03:14 |
| hongbin_ | Like this: http://docs.openstack.org/kilo/config-reference/content/vmware.html | 03:14 |
| yanyanhu | hongbin_, actually nova scheduler still takes effect. Just the scheduling happens cross multiple vcenters | 03:15 |
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| hongbin_ | yanyanhu: Then, it sounds like a two level scheduling | 03:15 |
| yanyanhu | hongbin_, yes, basically, the 'real' scheduling is done inside vcenter/zun | 03:15 |
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| hongbin_ | Interesting | 03:15 |
| yanyanhu | if we only have one zun/vcenter instance there | 03:15 |
| mkrai | yes scheduler is tightly coupled so it can't be disabled I guess | 03:16 |
| yanyanhu | so, what you stated is right | 03:16 |
| hongbin_ | ok | 03:16 |
| yanyanhu | mkrai, using the second way, the will be only one available host for nova scheduler to choose actually :) | 03:16 |
| yanyanhu | s/host/nova-compute node | 03:17 |
| yanyanhu | the compute-node is actually zun service | 03:17 |
| mkrai | yanyanhu, How? | 03:17 |
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| yanyanhu | in that case, Zun will be a nova-compute node for Nova | 03:17 |
| yanyanhu | so | 03:18 |
| yanyanhu | there is no real scheduling happen at nova side I feel | 03:18 |
| Wenzhi | yes just like ironic | 03:18 |
| yanyanhu | if we choose another way, nova will be responsible to schedule instance | 03:19 |
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| hongbin_ | I think the first appraoch is more scalable: Nova choose a cluster, Zun pick a node in the cluster | 03:20 |
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| yanyanhu | just my understanding, maybe not accurate | 03:20 |
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| yanyanhu | hongbin_, what you mean here by cluster? | 03:20 |
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| hongbin_ | Like VMWare, Nova pick a cluster, vcenter pick a host | 03:21 |
| yanyanhu | I see | 03:21 |
| hongbin_ | Oh, I might misunderstand something | 03:21 |
| yanyanhu | so two level scheduling | 03:21 |
| hongbin_ | Yes | 03:21 |
| hongbin_ | OK, let's discuss the detail in the spec Namrata will write | 03:22 |
| yanyanhu | sure | 03:22 |
| hongbin_ | Thanks Namrata for working on this | 03:22 |
| mkrai | +1 | 03:22 |
| hongbin_ | #topic Integrate with Mesos scheduler (sudipto) | 03:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Integrate with Mesos scheduler (sudipto) (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:23 | |
| hongbin_ | sudipto_: here? | 03:23 |
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| hongbin_ | It looks sudipto is not here. Anyone else want to discuss this topic? | 03:24 |
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| hongbin_ | OK. Then, let's start the open discussion | 03:24 |
| hongbin_ | #topic Open Discussion | 03:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:24 | |
| hongbin_ | I have one topic to discuss, if nobody else has anyting | 03:25 |
| mkrai | hongbin_, After we have the basic docker API support, what shall we work on? | 03:25 |
| yanyanhu | sure, go ahead plz | 03:25 |
| hongbin_ | mkrai: There are several priority | 03:25 |
| mkrai | We should decide on some features | 03:25 |
| hongbin_ | mkrai: image, network, storage | 03:25 |
| * sudipto_ is eavesdropping | 03:26 | |
| hongbin_ | mkrai: Do you have any feature in mind? | 03:26 |
| hongbin_ | sudipto_: hey | 03:26 |
| mkrai | So I think we should add few of these topics in next meeting | 03:26 |
| sudipto_ | sorry i am out for a customer visit... so couldn't join in time. | 03:26 |
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| mkrai | I also feel image, storage and networking are priority | 03:27 |
| hongbin_ | mkrai: sure, will start exploring additional topics next time | 03:27 |
| hongbin_ | sudipto_: NP at all | 03:27 |
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| mkrai | Let's enhance the docker support first | 03:27 |
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| hongbin | hey | 03:28 |
| mkrai | Thanks hongbin | 03:28 |
| hongbin | Not sure why my name changed | 03:28 |
| hongbin | .... | 03:28 |
| yanyanhu | haha | 03:28 |
| hongbin | OK. Let's continue | 03:28 |
| sudipto_ | yeah my view is the same, the mesos updates can wait till we finalise the docker support... | 03:28 |
| hongbin | sudipto_: ack | 03:29 |
| hongbin | For the next priority, I remembered we have an etherpad to list them | 03:29 |
| * hongbin is finding the etherpad | 03:29 | |
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| hongbin | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/container-management-service | 03:30 |
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| hongbin | Several things in the list | 03:31 |
| hongbin | 1. Implement a simple scheduler | 03:31 |
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| hongbin | 2. Neutron integration | 03:31 |
| mkrai | yes let's list it somewhere so that contributors can take it | 03:32 |
| hongbin | 3. Cinder integration | 03:32 |
| hongbin | mkrai: sure. First, we needs to decide which one is the priority first | 03:32 |
| hongbin | 4. Glance integration | 03:32 |
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| mkrai | Yes | 03:32 |
| hongbin | mkrai: Do we have a Keystone integration ready? | 03:33 |
| vikasc | neutron intergration should be easiest one | 03:33 |
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| mkrai | Yes | 03:33 |
| vikasc | since kuryr already supports libnetwork | 03:33 |
| hongbin | vikasc: hopefully, it is easy | 03:34 |
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| vikasc | and kuryr currently supports baremetal only | 03:34 |
| hongbin | mkrai: How about multi-tenancy? | 03:34 |
| mkrai | hongbin, No it is not yet supported | 03:35 |
| hongbin | mkrai: ack. I think multi-tenancy is very important | 03:35 |
| mkrai | We need to look into it | 03:35 |
| mkrai | Yes agree | 03:35 |
| hongbin | #action hongbin created a BP for multi-tenancy support | 03:35 |
| hongbin | Anything else? | 03:36 |
| hongbin | 5. Host management | 03:36 |
| hongbin | 6. Magnum integration | 03:36 |
| yanyanhu | also Composition maybe | 03:37 |
| yanyanhu | but not urgent | 03:37 |
| hongbin | yanyanhu: ack | 03:37 |
| mkrai | Shall we pick some priority topics to be included in next meeting? | 03:37 |
| hongbin | mkrai: if you want, yes | 03:37 |
| mkrai | I think multi tenancy and glance integration is priority I feel | 03:38 |
| sudipto_ | mkrai, totally agreed. I think we have to narrow our focus to get something working first. | 03:38 |
| hongbin | sudipto_: mkrai get the basic of runtime API working already | 03:38 |
| sudipto_ | hongbin, oh great. I wasn't aware. | 03:39 |
| yanyanhu | +1 as well for glance integration and multi-tenancy support | 03:39 |
| sudipto_ | Maybe i could do some code reviews - if you guys add me? | 03:39 |
| mkrai | sure sudipto_ I will add you | 03:39 |
| hongbin | sudipto_: as core reviewer? | 03:39 |
| sudipto_ | hongbin, well i didn't ask for that :) A basic reviewer would do too. | 03:40 |
| hongbin | sudipto_: a basic review don't need to be added :) | 03:40 |
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| hongbin | However, I can propose you to be a core | 03:40 |
| mkrai | +1 for it hongbin :) | 03:41 |
| sudipto_ | hongbin, alright sounds good! | 03:41 |
| yanyanhu | +1 from me | 03:41 |
| hongbin | sudipto_: will propose you later | 03:41 |
| sudipto_ | hongbin, ok thanks! | 03:41 |
| hongbin | anyone else want to become a core. Please contact me as well | 03:41 |
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| hongbin | OK. Back to the Glance integration. | 03:42 |
| hongbin | We have about 17 minutes left, want to discuss Glance integration now? | 03:42 |
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| mkrai | I see glance integration is taken by Fei long | 03:42 |
| hongbin | flwang: ^^ | 03:43 |
| sudipto_ | flwang, are you there? | 03:43 |
| hongbin | I am not sure if you guys know. Glare has been splitted out from Glance | 03:43 |
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| sudipto_ | I am not really sure where glance is going. | 03:43 |
| sudipto_ | with Glare and all that. | 03:44 |
| yanyanhu | yes, long thread in mailing list :) | 03:44 |
| yanyanhu | some discussion (argument as well :P ) | 03:44 |
| hongbin | Yes, it is a long debate | 03:44 |
| hongbin | Glare's API is suitable to implement layers of docker images | 03:45 |
| hongbin | Basically, Glare is like a superset of Glance | 03:46 |
| yanyanhu | oh, I thought it is for template storing before | 03:46 |
| hongbin | yanyanhu: It seems it is not. It is a model to represent the image and its meta-data | 03:46 |
| yanyanhu | I see | 03:46 |
| yanyanhu | so basically add versioning support | 03:47 |
| hongbin | What we needs is the ability to express dependencies between image layers | 03:47 |
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| hongbin | which Glare can do | 03:47 |
| sudipto_ | so you want to detach yourself from the docker hub and create a private registry of sorts? | 03:48 |
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| hongbin | sudipto_: Yes, that is an alternative | 03:48 |
| flwang | sorry | 03:48 |
| flwang | back | 03:48 |
| hongbin | flwang: hey | 03:49 |
| hongbin | flwang: I guess you saw the news that Glare was splited out? | 03:49 |
| flwang | yep i know | 03:49 |
| hongbin | flwang: Then, what the Glare API will look like, a superset of Glance API? | 03:49 |
| flwang | and as the discussion with nikhil, implement the layer in glance is most like 'impossible' | 03:49 |
| flwang | hongbin: it's an artifacts repo | 03:50 |
| flwang | not a superset of glance api | 03:50 |
| hongbin | flwang: I see | 03:50 |
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| flwang | in other words, or IMHO, it's most like a definition for an OS/image | 03:51 |
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| flwang | it can define very detailed attributes of an image | 03:51 |
| hongbin | flwang: but the image blob data must store somewhere? | 03:51 |
| sudipto_ | till glance and glare sorts out stuff, should we just go with a private registry? | 03:52 |
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| flwang | i would say the image data is still in glance | 03:52 |
| flwang | sudipto_: that's a reasonable option | 03:52 |
| flwang | since i can see it will still last very long time to settle down | 03:53 |
| sudipto_ | flwang, same feelings. | 03:53 |
| hongbin | The weakness of docker registry is the multi-tenancy support | 03:53 |
| hongbin | and keystone | 03:53 |
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| flwang | hongbin: right | 03:54 |
| hongbin | It looks docker registry is single tenant, that means we need to setup one registry per tenant | 03:54 |
| hongbin | or modify the docker registry to make it compatible with multi-tennacy model | 03:54 |
| flwang | hongbin: and it's hard to maintain i think | 03:54 |
| hongbin | flwang: I might have a crazy idea. Have Glance backed by docker registry | 03:55 |
| hongbin | so that we use Glance API at front, use docker registry as a backend | 03:56 |
| flwang | hongbin: that's the initial plan I discussed with Sam | 03:56 |
| flwang | years ago | 03:56 |
| flwang | but i can't remember the details now :( | 03:56 |
| hongbin | sounds like the idea was rejected | 03:56 |
| flwang | because even if you can work out docker registry as a glance backend, you still have to make glance respect the layers | 03:58 |
| flwang | right? | 03:58 |
| hongbin | flwang: maybe not | 03:58 |
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| flwang | how? | 03:58 |
| sudipto_ | how about an offline mailing list discussion on this? maybe not to the whole community but with a few of us in it? | 03:58 |
| flwang | ok, sure | 03:58 |
| sudipto_ | coz we are on the brink of the hour. | 03:58 |
| hongbin | sure... | 03:58 |
| flwang | let's back to zun channel | 03:58 |
| hongbin | All, thanks for joining the meeting | 03:59 |
| hongbin | #endmeeting | 03:59 |
| hongbin | ... | 03:59 |
| Namrata | thanks.. | 03:59 |
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| mkrai | Meetbot isn't working? | 03:59 |
| hongbin_ | #endmeeting | 04:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 04:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 9 04:00:00 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 04:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-08-09-03.00.html | 04:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-08-09-03.00.txt | 04:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-08-09-03.00.log.html | 04:00 |
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| yamamoto | #startmeeting networking_midonet | 07:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 9 07:00:35 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is yamamoto. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 07:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 07:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking_midonet' | 07:00 |
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| yamamoto | #topic Agenda | 07:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:04 | |
| yamamoto | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NetworkingMidoNet | 07:04 |
| yamamoto | not much agenda | 07:04 |
| yamamoto | #topic Announcements | 07:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:04 | |
| yamamoto | nothing from me | 07:05 |
| yamamoto | #topic Bugs | 07:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:05 | |
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| yamamoto | we had gate blocking issues recently but most of them have been solved | 07:06 |
| yamamoto | #topic Open Discussion | 07:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)" | 07:06 | |
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| * yamamoto waiting for a while before closing the meeting | 07:06 | |
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| yamamoto | thank you! | 07:20 |
| yamamoto | #endmeeting | 07:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 07:20 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 9 07:20:42 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 07:20 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-08-09-07.00.html | 07:20 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-08-09-07.00.txt | 07:20 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-08-09-07.00.log.html | 07:20 |
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| tommylikehu_ | who is openstack | 12:23 |
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| Qiming | #startmeeting senlin | 13:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 9 13:00:19 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'senlin' | 13:00 |
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| Qiming | hello? | 13:00 |
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| elynn | o/ | 13:02 |
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| Qiming | hi, elynn | 13:03 |
| guoshan_ | hi, everyone~ | 13:03 |
| elynn | evening Qiming | 13:03 |
| Qiming | hi, guoshan_ | 13:03 |
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| Qiming | pls feel free to add items to the meeting agenda | 13:04 |
| Qiming | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda#Weekly_Senlin_.28Clustering.29_meeting | 13:04 |
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| Qiming | due to firewall problem, adding meeting items is not easy now, we have to use proxy | 13:04 |
| Qiming | yanyan cannot join us today, I heard nothing from xinhui or haiwei | 13:05 |
| Qiming | let's get started? | 13:05 |
| guoshan_ | ok, It's my first time in IRC meeting | 13:05 |
| Qiming | thanks, guoshan_ | 13:05 |
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| Qiming | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-newton-workitems | 13:05 |
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| Qiming | let's go thru the etherpad and see where we are | 13:06 |
| lixinhui_ | hi | 13:06 |
| Qiming | yanyan has updated the etherpad for Rally support | 13:07 |
| Qiming | hi, lixinhui_ | 13:07 |
| Qiming | we just got started | 13:07 |
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| Qiming | the Rally side support was just merged, Roman has help review another patch in senlin code base, which is good ... | 13:07 |
| Qiming | I'm not gonna copy/paste yanyan's update here | 13:08 |
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| Qiming | please read it | 13:08 |
| Qiming | Will delete those text later | 13:08 |
| Qiming | integration test | 13:08 |
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| Qiming | test job has been merged at gate side | 13:08 |
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| Qiming | we found things to be fixed related to neutron set up | 13:09 |
| Qiming | these tests are pretty important for us to ensure we are not breaking any contracts with any other services | 13:09 |
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| Qiming | at the same time, I'm working on revising the docs about testing infrastructure | 13:10 |
| Qiming | #link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/senlin/tree/doc/source/developer/testing.rst | 13:10 |
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| Qiming | the current doc is only about unit tests | 13:10 |
| Qiming | while we have added api test, functional test, integration test and stress test (ongoing) | 13:11 |
| Qiming | need to update the docs so we all know how to run them in our local env | 13:11 |
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| Qiming | pls help review the patches and see if there things to be fixed | 13:12 |
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| Qiming | https://review.openstack.org/347654 | 13:12 |
| guoshan_ | sure, pleasure to do that | 13:12 |
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| Qiming | https://review.openstack.org/348110 | 13:12 |
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| Qiming | moving on ... | 13:12 |
| Qiming | health management | 13:12 |
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| Qiming | lixinhui_, the LB member status one is fixed? | 13:13 |
| lixinhui_ | 2 of 3 patches have been approved | 13:14 |
| lixinhui_ | the root one is pending for cores' approval | 13:14 |
| Qiming | great | 13:14 |
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| Qiming | next thing is about fencing | 13:15 |
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| Qiming | I know you have added some support into python-openstacksdk side | 13:15 |
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| Qiming | those are already well shaped, just address brian's concern would be fine | 13:15 |
| lixinhui_ | neutron-lbaas community is not very active | 13:15 |
| lixinhui_ | I added Armando as reviewer | 13:15 |
| lixinhui_ | hope he can help | 13:15 |
| lixinhui_ | in future, Octavia will replace lbaas | 13:15 |
| lixinhui_ | Brian just add comments there | 13:16 |
| Qiming | yep | 13:16 |
| lixinhui_ | okay | 13:16 |
| lixinhui_ | I will followup soon | 13:16 |
| Qiming | for those of you who are not aware of these patches: | 13:16 |
| Qiming | https://review.openstack.org/352723 | 13:16 |
| Qiming | https://review.openstack.org/351061 | 13:16 |
| Qiming | these are the ones added to sdk so that we can invoke nova service operations later -- for fencing's purpose | 13:17 |
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| Qiming | moving on to next item | 13:17 |
| Qiming | documentation, not much update from me | 13:17 |
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| Qiming | but I did submitted some patches about api docs | 13:18 |
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| Qiming | one thing to notice is that the global version requirement of os-api-ref has been bumped to 0.4.0 | 13:18 |
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| Qiming | which means it has a better support to success code and error code now | 13:19 |
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| Qiming | if you are interested in it, you can check this subsection: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/os-api-ref/tree/doc/source/usage.rst#n185 | 13:20 |
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| Qiming | moving on to next one | 13:20 |
| Qiming | profile/policy version control | 13:20 |
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| Qiming | yanyan has proposed a patch which I forgot to review | 13:20 |
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| Qiming | please jump on to it when you have time | 13:21 |
| Qiming | it is very important a feature, though in future we plan to generalize versioning control of many things | 13:21 |
| Qiming | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/348709/ | 13:22 |
| elynn | will review it later. | 13:22 |
| Qiming | ^ is the patch | 13:22 |
| Qiming | thx elynn | 13:22 |
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| Qiming | next topic is container cluster support | 13:23 |
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| Qiming | haiwei has a new patchset for review: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/349906 | 13:23 |
| Qiming | though it still not comprehensive, as a working prototype, it looks not bad | 13:23 |
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| Qiming | also need reviews from you | 13:24 |
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| Qiming | haiwei is not online today, seems | 13:24 |
| Qiming | so we move on to next one | 13:24 |
| Qiming | zaqar receiver support | 13:24 |
| Qiming | yanyan has been pushing hard on zaqar support at sdk side | 13:25 |
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| Qiming | due to api doc and some implementation nits, the patches are still pending for review/merge | 13:25 |
| Qiming | but we are pretty close to get it done | 13:25 |
| Qiming | next one | 13:26 |
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| Qiming | events/notifications | 13:26 |
| Qiming | not update from me on this, probably we won't have time to get it done in newton | 13:26 |
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| Qiming | some updates on cluster-collect | 13:27 |
| Qiming | the senlin side has a fix to the docs merged: https://review.openstack.org/350982 | 13:28 |
| Qiming | and finally we got API micro-versioning support merged in openstacksdk: https://review.openstack.org/343992 | 13:28 |
| Qiming | following that, we got a new API (collect_cluster_attrs) merged: https://review.openstack.org/350978 | 13:29 |
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| Qiming | I'm now working at senlinclient side on the micro-versioning and cluster-collect operation support | 13:29 |
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| Qiming | the output is something like this: | 13:31 |
| Qiming | $ senlin cluster-collect -p details.addresses.private[0] c1 | 13:31 |
| Qiming | WARNING (shell) "senlin cluster-collect" is deprecated, please use "openstack cluster collect" instead. | 13:31 |
| Qiming | 10.0.0.12 | 13:31 |
| Qiming | 10.0.0.13 | 13:31 |
| Qiming | 10.0.0.14 | 13:31 |
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| elynn | looks great! | 13:31 |
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| Qiming | and also this: | 13:32 |
| Qiming | $ openstack cluster collect -f value -c attr_value --path details.addresses.private[0] c1 | 13:32 |
| Qiming | 10.0.0.12 | 13:32 |
| Qiming | 10.0.0.13 | 13:32 |
| Qiming | 10.0.0.14 | 13:32 |
| Qiming | need to add test cases then commit the patch | 13:32 |
| elynn | a question, how would the users know what kind of attributes they can get? | 13:33 |
| Qiming | it is a JSON path | 13:33 |
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| Qiming | when you do senlin node-show <node_id> | 13:33 |
| Qiming | you get the attributes | 13:33 |
| elynn | oh, I see. | 13:33 |
| Qiming | then you think to yourself, how can I get all the values from all nodes instead of doing cluster node-show one by one | 13:34 |
| Qiming | well, that is when you decide to use senlin cluster-collect or openstack cluster collect | 13:34 |
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| Qiming | by the way, just found a bug in sdk and proposed a patch | 13:35 |
| Qiming | https://review.openstack.org/352853 | 13:35 |
| elynn | Glad that we could provide this API. | 13:35 |
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| Qiming | when senlin is retrieving the details about a nova server, the 'image' property disappeared, so does the 'flavor' property | 13:36 |
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| Qiming | hope it can be merged soon | 13:36 |
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| Qiming | besides that, I don't have more updates | 13:37 |
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| Qiming | questions/comments about items on etherpad? | 13:37 |
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| Qiming | okay, that is a no | 13:38 |
| elynn | Not from me, newton-3 will be end this month? | 13:38 |
| Qiming | :) | 13:38 |
| Qiming | yep, http://releases.openstack.org/newton/schedule.html | 13:38 |
| Qiming | newton-3 on august 29 | 13:39 |
| Qiming | rc-1 on sep 12 | 13:39 |
| elynn | okay.thanks | 13:39 |
| Qiming | rc-2 on sep-26 | 13:39 |
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| Qiming | since we don't have a lot of features pipeline | 13:40 |
| Qiming | so we don't need to practice a feature freeze type of thing | 13:40 |
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| Qiming | just work to our best ... deliver what can be made stable | 13:41 |
| Qiming | #topic open discussions | 13:41 |
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| Qiming | anything else? | 13:42 |
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| lixinhui_ | Qiming, have you tried the vertioned_nova? | 13:42 |
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| lixinhui_ | versioned_nova? | 13:42 |
| Qiming | no | 13:42 |
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| Qiming | what is versioned_nova? | 13:42 |
| Qiming | a software? | 13:43 |
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| lixinhui_ | https://review.openstack.org/350364 | 13:44 |
| Qiming | okay, you mean versioned notification from nova | 13:45 |
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| Qiming | it is good to add versioned_notifications as a target | 13:45 |
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| Qiming | my question was whether that new target can be used for notifications with 'notifications' as topic | 13:46 |
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| lixinhui_ | why that way? | 13:47 |
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| Qiming | or, a different way to ask the question ... has nova migrated all their notifications to this versioned way? | 13:47 |
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| lixinhui_ | is that enough to migrate all instance.update? | 13:48 |
| Qiming | a safer way to add 'versioned_notifications' as a Target is to keep the old one, we won't get hurt if there are not messages with that topic | 13:48 |
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| Qiming | but if nova is only migrating part of their notifications to the versioned way, ... that is bad | 13:50 |
| lixinhui_ | according to the doc, original one will be retired | 13:50 |
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| lixinhui_ | why we receive two channels | 13:50 |
| Qiming | I never trust their docs | 13:50 |
| Qiming | they said they will work out a v3 api | 13:50 |
| Qiming | they said they will split scheduler out | 13:50 |
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| lixinhui_ | I tested instance.update and service.update | 13:51 |
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| Qiming | we can listen to two channels, if one channel is really quiet, we can delete it later | 13:51 |
| Qiming | yes, I figured that | 13:51 |
| Qiming | but instance.update and service.update is not the whole world, right? | 13:52 |
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| lixinhui_ | how about noisy | 13:52 |
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| lixinhui_ | according to its design, yes | 13:52 |
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| lixinhui_ | whole world of nova notifications | 13:52 |
| lixinhui_ | just throw a question here | 13:52 |
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| lixinhui_ | we can leave the old one till compute service failure detection | 13:53 |
| Qiming | a target is constructed with a 'topic' and an 'exchange' | 13:54 |
| Qiming | we already set the 'exchange' to 'nova' | 13:54 |
| lixinhui_ | there is no change on exchange | 13:54 |
| lixinhui_ | I use Rabbitmq as message provide | 13:55 |
| Qiming | the combination means, we listen to 'notifications' from 'nova' | 13:55 |
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| Qiming | if nova has migrated all its notifications to the versioned implementation | 13:55 |
| Qiming | that target should be quiet | 13:55 |
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| lixinhui_ | provider | 13:55 |
| lixinhui_ | and confirm no change on exchange | 13:55 |
| Qiming | if it is not, it means nova is still doing the migration | 13:56 |
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| Qiming | I know you didn't change exchange | 13:56 |
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| Qiming | I'm trying my best to explain to you why I think keeping the existing target doesn't hurt us | 13:56 |
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| lixinhui_ | not I change the exchange | 13:57 |
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| lixinhui_ | I just trying to explain the test result | 13:57 |
| lixinhui_ | anyway | 13:57 |
| Qiming | if nova has migrated all notifications to versioned one, the existing target will be quiet, we won't get anything from it, we are not hurt | 13:57 |
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| Qiming | you are only testing instance.update and service.update, right? | 13:58 |
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| Qiming | do we know when an instance is stopped, or deleted? using the 'instance.update' notification? | 13:58 |
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| Qiming | or maybe the protocol has changed, I haven't looked into that for a time | 13:59 |
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| lixinhui_ | yes | 13:59 |
| Qiming | okay, I'll do some experiements to verify | 13:59 |
| lixinhui_ | stop or delete are details of instance.update | 14:00 |
| Qiming | thanks for bringing this up | 14:00 |
| Qiming | time is up | 14:00 |
| Qiming | thanks for joining, guys | 14:00 |
| Qiming | #endmeeting | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 9 14:00:21 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-08-09-13.00.html | 14:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-08-09-13.00.txt | 14:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-08-09-13.00.log.html | 14:00 |
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| lixinhui_ | good night | 14:01 |
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| saggi | #startmeeting smaug | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 9 15:00:04 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is saggi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: smaug)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'smaug' | 15:00 |
| saggi | Hi everyone | 15:00 |
| chenying_ | hi | 15:00 |
| saggi | Are we waiting on anyone? | 15:00 |
| xiangxinyong456 | hi | 15:00 |
| saggi | #topic Mascot and name selection | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Mascot and name selection (Meeting topic: smaug)" | 15:00 | |
| saggi | OK, so I'm going to announce the name change after this meeting. | 15:01 |
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| saggi | We are changing to Karbor | 15:01 |
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| yuval | heyt | 15:01 |
| yuval | o/ | 15:01 |
| xiangxinyong456 | :) | 15:01 |
| saggi | and our mascot will be the Tardigrade with the majority of the votes. | 15:01 |
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| saggi | Sorry beaver got +2 | 15:02 |
| yuval | do we need to wait for governance approval before we start changing the name? or can we start sending patches and update the wiki immediately? | 15:02 |
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| saggi | I already got approvals from Thierry | 15:03 |
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| chenying_ | Ok So we can start the patches about the name change. | 15:03 |
| yuval | Myself and chenying listed the things require change: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/smaug | 15:03 |
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| yuval | (under Project Affected by the name change) | 15:03 |
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| yuval | We need to submit one patch to openstack/governance, and all other patches must have "Depend-On" with that change id | 15:04 |
| xiangxinyong456 | I guess we have a lot of work to do | 15:04 |
| yuval | once everything is set, we pass the governance patch and the rest just get merged | 15:05 |
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| yuval | I can start working on that tomorrow morning, unless someone else wish to | 15:05 |
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| chenying_ | Yes I can do the patches about the project smaug and client. | 15:06 |
| saggi | yuval: IIRC it doesn't fix the github mirrors. We need to ask for those to be changed manually. | 15:07 |
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| saggi | So who does what? | 15:08 |
| chenying_ | There are about ten projects. | 15:08 |
| yuval | Saggi, can you do governance and mailing list announce? | 15:09 |
| saggi | Yes | 15:09 |
| yuval | I'll take infra, requirements and launchpad | 15:09 |
| xiangxinyong456 | I could do some works | 15:09 |
| chenying_ | I can do the patches about the project smaug and client. | 15:09 |
| yuval | xiangxinyong456: can you do devstack and wiki? | 15:10 |
| chenying_ | smaug | 15:10 |
| chenying_ | python-smaugclient | 15:10 |
| chenying_ | smaug-dashboard | 15:10 |
| chenying_ | openstack/requirements | 15:10 |
| chenying_ | openstack-infra/irc-meetings | 15:10 |
| chenying_ | openstack-infra/project-config | 15:10 |
| chenying_ | openstack-dev/devstack | 15:10 |
| chenying_ | openstack/governance | 15:10 |
| chenying_ | openstack-infra/system-config | 15:10 |
| chenying_ | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Smaug | 15:10 |
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| chenying_ | https://launchpad.net/smaug | 15:10 |
| chenying_ | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/smaug | 15:10 |
| xiangxinyong456 | yuval: ok | 15:10 |
| zhonghua-lee | let me check and update the documents | 15:10 |
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| xiangxinyong456 | I do Devstack and wiki | 15:11 |
| chenying_ | Have we missed some prjects? | 15:11 |
| yuval | updated here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/smaug | 15:12 |
| saggi | Could you add everything to this list https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/karbor-migration-tasks | 15:12 |
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| saggi | $ python -c "import random; print ['Beaver', 'Tardigrade'][random.randint(0,1)]" | 15:14 |
| saggi | Beaver | 15:14 |
| saggi | So Beaver won the tie | 15:14 |
| xiangxinyong456 | :) | 15:14 |
| yuval | IMO it's to similar to quokka | 15:15 |
| yuval | at least tell them to draw the distinguished funny tail :) | 15:15 |
| saggi | :) | 15:15 |
| chenying_ | :) | 15:16 |
| chenying_ | It is cute. | 15:16 |
| xiangxinyong456 | beaver is good | 15:16 |
| saggi | The reason is that it makes a den to store food for later | 15:16 |
| saggi | I assume? | 15:16 |
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| saggi | So I will just send the emails and notify Thierry that we are starting to send patches to move things around. | 15:17 |
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| saggi | Please add the relevant patches to the etherpad so that I can track everything | 15:18 |
| saggi | OK? | 15:18 |
| yuval | great | 15:18 |
| xiangxinyong456 | ok | 15:18 |
| chenying_ | ok | 15:18 |
| saggi | #topic open discussion | 15:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: smaug)" | 15:18 | |
| saggi | That was the only topic for tday | 15:18 |
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| saggi | We can finish early if no one has anything to add | 15:19 |
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| saggi | ... | 15:19 |
| saggi | OK | 15:20 |
| saggi | Than we're done | 15:20 |
| chenying_ | There is a good new. One backup software verdor cv, will develop a plugin about application protection. | 15:20 |
| saggi | what application? | 15:20 |
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| chenying_ | database | 15:20 |
| saggi | Are they supported in Trove? | 15:21 |
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| chenying_ | Maybe not. local database in vm | 15:21 |
| chenying_ | don't support in Trove | 15:21 |
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| saggi | Than it's important that we push yuval's patches | 15:22 |
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| saggi | since they are critical to enable proper application features | 15:22 |
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| chenying_ | I think so. | 15:23 |
| saggi | good news! | 15:23 |
| saggi | let me know when the patches are up | 15:23 |
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| saggi | Anything else? | 15:23 |
| chenying_ | maybe more then one backup verdors plan to develop the plugins. | 15:23 |
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| saggi | For the same DB? | 15:24 |
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| chenying_ | I don't know. | 15:24 |
| saggi | Anyway, the more support we get the better | 15:24 |
| saggi | :) | 15:24 |
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| * amrith sits in the back rows ... | 15:25 | |
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| yuval | lol | 15:25 |
| xiangxinyong456 | I see Sean fix some bugs in smaug. | 15:25 |
| chenying_ | I also see it. | 15:26 |
| xiangxinyong456 | he does a good job | 15:26 |
| saggi | :) | 15:27 |
| xiangxinyong456 | :p | 15:27 |
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| saggi | we need to take note for these stuff | 15:28 |
| saggi | I rarely check that all strings are properly translatable | 15:28 |
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| saggi | Anything else? | 15:29 |
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| saggi | Things seem to be looking up. Let's hope we get more cooperation in the future. | 15:30 |
| saggi | Goodbye everyone | 15:30 |
| yuval | goodbye :) | 15:30 |
| xiangxinyong456 | bye | 15:30 |
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| saggi | #endmeeting | 15:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:30 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 9 15:30:45 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:30 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/smaug/2016/smaug.2016-08-09-15.00.html | 15:30 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/smaug/2016/smaug.2016-08-09-15.00.txt | 15:30 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/smaug/2016/smaug.2016-08-09-15.00.log.html | 15:30 |
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| sridhar_ram | #startmeeting tacker | 16:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 9 16:04:48 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sridhar_ram. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tacker' | 16:04 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Roll Call | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:05 | |
| vishwanathj | o/ | 16:05 |
| sridhar_ram | who is here? | 16:05 |
| neel | o/ | 16:05 |
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| sridhar_ram | .. for tacker meeting :) | 16:05 |
| tung_doan | o/ | 16:05 |
| tbh | o/ | 16:05 |
| sripriya | o/ | 16:05 |
| manikanta_tadi | Hi all | 16:05 |
| janki | o/ | 16:05 |
| KanagarajM | o/ | 16:05 |
| sridhar_ram | Good to see you all ! | 16:05 |
| xuan_ | o/ | 16:05 |
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| sridhar_ram | lets start.. sorry for the delay | 16:06 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Agenda | 16:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:06 | |
| sridhar_ram | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Tacker | 16:06 |
| bobh | o/ | 16:06 |
| sridhar_ram | we have lot to discuss.. | 16:06 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Annoucements | 16:06 |
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| sridhar_ram | Thanks everyone for joining the Tacker Midycle Meetup ... i know it was lot of time commitment across two days | 16:07 |
| trozet | o/ | 16:07 |
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| sridhar_ram | #info https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/tacker-newton-midcycle | 16:07 |
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| sridhar_ram | #topic Newton Release timeline | 16:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Newton Release timeline (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:08 | |
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| sridhar_ram | #link http://releases.openstack.org/newton/schedule.html | 16:08 |
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| sridhar_ram | Given we are big-tent project.. we need to adhere to the openstack release teams deadlines.. | 16:09 |
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| sridhar_ram | Our project is marked as "release-with-intermediary" | 16:09 |
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| manikanta_tadi | So Aug 29 is the deadline for code freeze ? | 16:10 |
| sridhar_ram | .. for based on that and the newton schedule above, here is the plan.. | 16:10 |
| sridhar_ram | manikanta_tadi: will explain in a minute | 16:10 |
| manikanta_tadi | sridhar_ram: Ok | 16:10 |
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| sridhar_ram | #info Final release of tackerclient is on Aug 29th | 16:10 |
| sridhar_ram | This means all tackerclient changes - CLIs, API clients - needs to be finished by Aug 26th (Friday) | 16:11 |
| sridhar_ram | After this date no CLI change is possible for Newton | 16:11 |
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| sridhar_ram | for e.g. CLI portion of vnffg, scaling, audit-event log to wrap up by this date | 16:12 |
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| sridhar_ram | #info Intermediary release of tacker & tacker-horizon on Aug 29th | 16:12 |
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| sridhar_ram | this is a check point newton release for tacker (non-client) portions | 16:12 |
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| sripriya | sridhar_ram: does this include tacker-horizon freeze? | 16:13 |
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| sridhar_ram | If your feature this wrapped up by Aug 26th it will get released as part of it.. | 16:13 |
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| sridhar_ram | sripriya: no.. tacker & tacker-horizon always gets released together | 16:14 |
| sridhar_ram | #info Final release of tacker & tacker-horizon on Sep 23rd | 16:14 |
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| sripriya | sridhar_ram: ok | 16:14 |
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| sridhar_ram | We also need at least 1 - 2 weeks to take care of integration issues.. | 16:15 |
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| sridhar_ram | that puts us to Sep 12th as the code-freeze date to make it to newton | 16:16 |
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| sridhar_ram | manikanta_tadi: so, in short we have time till Aug 26th for CLI and Sept 12 for server & horizon changes | 16:17 |
| sridhar_ram | Any questions ? | 16:17 |
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| manikanta_tadi | sridhar_ram: Thanks for clear insight | 16:18 |
| sridhar_ram | We have a quick challenging time last time during Mitaka release, as we had teething integration and Critical bugs in the last week | 16:18 |
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| sridhar_ram | I'd like to avoid getting us in that situation this time around.. | 16:19 |
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| sridhar_ram | So, we might need to punt some features that are not "release ready" to the follow on Ocata release | 16:19 |
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| sridhar_ram | Looking for the team's support in making a feature rich but at the same time well rounded release - less bugs, better docs, etc | 16:20 |
| sridhar_ram | will stop my soap box now :) | 16:20 |
| sridhar_ram | please reach out if you think ur feature won't be able to make it in these deadlines | 16:21 |
| sridhar_ram | moving on.. | 16:21 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: is it possible to provide any critical fixes of these features after the release? | 16:21 |
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| sridhar_ram | sripriya: yes, you can .. a critical bug fix can go into stable/newton branch at anytime.. but there are some restrictions | 16:22 |
| sridhar_ram | like .. (a) no requirements.txt changes are allowed - you can pull in new dependencies | 16:22 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: hoping we don’t have to :-) | 16:22 |
| sridhar_ram | (b) no db migration scripts are allowed | 16:23 |
| sridhar_ram | sripriya: yep, stable team at times asks teams to revert a patchset if it violates this policy | 16:23 |
| sridhar_ram | it is lot easier to take care before the deadlines listed earlier.. | 16:24 |
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| sridhar_ram | #topic Newton Priorities | 16:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Newton Priorities (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:24 | |
| sridhar_ram | continuing on the subject, I'd like to request the team to prioritize patchsets, fixes and most importantly the reviews that are planned for Newton first | 16:25 |
| sridhar_ram | here is the etherpad with requests to help for newton release .. | 16:25 |
| sridhar_ram | #link newton | 16:26 |
| * sridhar_ram oops | 16:26 | |
| sridhar_ram | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/tacker-newton-release-priority | 16:26 |
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| sridhar_ram | can you please take a look at this etherpad and signup for NEED OWNERS and NEED REVIEWERS.. | 16:27 |
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| sridhar_ram | anything not listed in this etherpad is deemed low priority for Newton and hence need to move to Ocata | 16:28 |
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| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: Does it have any chance for alarm monitoring? I have intention to finish my code in this week or the early next week. | 16:28 |
| sridhar_ram | so, if you think your patchset is something that is *must have* in newton please add it to this etherpad | 16:28 |
| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: can you remind me, does alarm-monitoring has any CLI / tackerclient changes ? | 16:29 |
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| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: no | 16:29 |
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| manikanta_tadi | sridhar_ram : Should we also add VNFC BP to the priority list | 16:30 |
| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: okay.. | 16:30 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: I think I can finish before deadline | 16:30 |
| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: the main issue i see is getting reviewer's time .. other than that i don't see why it can't make it to newton | 16:30 |
| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: please add it to the blueprint list in the etherpad | 16:31 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: Ok. thanks sridhar | 16:31 |
| sridhar_ram | manikanta_tadi: VNFC BP, IMO, is a best effort.. it came in late in the cycle, so if there is bandwidth *after* we are done w/ the existing ones we shd take VNFC | 16:32 |
| sridhar_ram | manikanta_tadi: btw, does it have any dependency on tosca-parser ? | 16:32 |
| sridhar_ram | manikanta_tadi: in that case, the answer will be no | 16:32 |
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| janki | sridhar_ram: how about feature of passing vnfd file as API arg | 16:32 |
| tbh | sridhar_ram, we don't have any dependency on tosca-parser | 16:32 |
| manikanta_tadi | sridhar_ram: reviewers time is also a bottle neck to make the progess on spec | 16:32 |
| sridhar_ram | tbh: good.. | 16:33 |
| sridhar_ram | manikanta_tadi: agree, i acknowledge that is going to the bottleneck for next 4 - 6 weeks... no easy solution there | 16:33 |
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| sridhar_ram | janki: i think that is an RFE level work and it might be okay to support it... | 16:34 |
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| dkushwaha | sridhar_ram, Regarding nsd, are we not planning it for newton? | 16:34 |
| sridhar_ram | janki: again, if there is CLI impact it need to be done soon | 16:34 |
| janki | sridhar_ram: ok. I am almost done. Will submit in 1-2 days | 16:34 |
| janki | sridhar_ram: understood | 16:35 |
| sridhar_ram | dkushwaha: I don't think NSD can fit newton.. it is clearly post-newton | 16:35 |
| manikanta_tadi | sridhar_ram : true, I request the entire team in this forum to give their feedback on VNFC BP at their convenient time | 16:35 |
| sridhar_ram | dkushwaha: however i think it will be first feature we will take up post newton release.. | 16:35 |
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| sridhar_ram | dkushwaha: NSD is a significant feature with lots of new API and CLI... and i don't think we can wrap up spec & CLI by Aug 26th | 16:37 |
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| sridhar_ram | thanks for those who are already signing up in the etherpad .. please continue to do that! | 16:38 |
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| sridhar_ram | any question on newton priorities ? | 16:38 |
| manikanta_tadi | sridhar_ram,: So other low hanging bugs will be taken for review after sep 23 | 16:38 |
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| sridhar_ram | manikanta_tadi: we will use our good judgement.. if there are low hanging bugs that helps towards fit-&-finish of newton release .. nothing stoping us to review & merge bef Sep 23 | 16:40 |
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| sridhar_ram | manikanta_tadi: for e.g. we have a bug where if bad input is given in horizon, there is an ugly looking exception thrown back.. | 16:41 |
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| sridhar_ram | manikanta_tadi: it is a -ve scenario, yet.. but looks ugly as it is easy for users to get into that | 16:42 |
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| sridhar_ram | so, please help w/ your +1s .. | 16:42 |
| sridhar_ram | solicit folks to review and give their +1s.. | 16:42 |
| manikanta_tadi | sridhar_ram : Understood! Thanks.. | 16:42 |
| sridhar_ram | many +1s helps to get +2s :) | 16:43 |
| sridhar_ram | we have beaten this to death.. | 16:43 |
| sridhar_ram | moving on | 16:43 |
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| sridhar_ram | #topic Blueprint only development process | 16:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprint only development process (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:43 | |
| sridhar_ram | I'd like to propose a slight modification to our dev process... | 16:44 |
| sridhar_ram | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/352663/ | 16:44 |
| sridhar_ram | This is something I was planning to bring up in the mid-cycle but didn't had time | 16:44 |
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| sridhar_ram | There are already couple of blueprints in our queue that doesn't have a need to write an elaborate spec.. | 16:44 |
| sridhar_ram | For e.g. tacker mistral workflows.. | 16:45 |
| sridhar_ram | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tacker/+spec/tacker-workflows | 16:45 |
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| sridhar_ram | Please review the process change and leave your comments.. | 16:45 |
| sridhar_ram | tacker blueprints are looked up across openstack group and beyond .. like OPNFV, etc.. | 16:46 |
| KanagarajM | sridhar_ram, +1 :) | 16:46 |
| sridhar_ram | we should use that more to publicize all the nice work that is happening in this group | 16:46 |
| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: thanks | 16:46 |
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| sridhar_ram | My intention is to make the communities members life as easy as possible.. no process for process-sake :) | 16:47 |
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| dkushwaha | sridhar_ram, +1 | 16:48 |
| sridhar_ram | dkushwaha: thanks! | 16:48 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Sample mistral workflow - BP approval | 16:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Sample mistral workflow - BP approval (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:48 | |
| sridhar_ram | related to the previous topic.. | 16:48 |
| sridhar_ram | I'd like to request team's opinion on this BP.. | 16:48 |
| sridhar_ram | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tacker/+spec/tacker-workflows | 16:49 |
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| sridhar_ram | if anyone think this BP shouldn't be approved .. please reach out in the ML | 16:49 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic NSD | 16:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "NSD (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:49 | |
| sridhar_ram | dkushwaha: take it away | 16:50 |
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| dkushwaha | all please provide your opinion on spec | 16:50 |
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| sridhar_ram | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/304667/ | 16:51 |
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| sridhar_ram | the big decision is with or without mistral !! | 16:51 |
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| sridhar_ram | dkushwaha: I'm glad you are already coming up to speed quickly on mistral | 16:52 |
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| dkushwaha | sridhar_ram, I can try to finish the spec by august 26, please suggest the approach | 16:52 |
| sridhar_ram | I know we have only few mins left.. perhaps we shd put that specific question in the agenda and have the team come prepared with their thoughts | 16:53 |
| sridhar_ram | dkushwaha: again, are you looking to see if NSD can make it to newton release ? | 16:53 |
| dkushwaha | sridhar_ram, yes | 16:54 |
| sridhar_ram | dkushwaha: I frankly doubt it is possible .. but we can take that up in the #tacker channel after this meeting | 16:54 |
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| sridhar_ram | dkushwaha: anything else ? | 16:55 |
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| dkushwaha | sridhar_ram, not for now | 16:55 |
| sridhar_ram | dkushwaha: okay.. | 16:55 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Open Discussion | 16:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:55 | |
| sridhar_ram | for once we have 5mins.. :) | 16:56 |
| sridhar_ram | any general thoughts ? | 16:56 |
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| sridhar_ram | lots of good discussion in the midcycle .. we shd groom them into blueprints for Ocata.. | 16:56 |
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| dkushwaha | sridhar_ram, are we considering the meeting timing change ? | 16:57 |
| sridhar_ram | particularly any takers for Murano plugin for Tacker ? | 16:57 |
| manikanta_tadi | sridhar_ram : yeah , midcycle meetup helped the team to understand roadmap | 16:57 |
| sridhar_ram | dkushwaha: I didn't hear any consensus .. | 16:57 |
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| sridhar_ram | let's not change until the newton release deadline is over.. | 16:58 |
| sridhar_ram | anyone violently disagree with ^^^ ? | 16:58 |
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| sridhar_ram | we could move this meeting 2 hrs earlier .. 1400 UTC.. that was the something we discussed | 16:59 |
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| sridhar_ram | i can put a doodle pool to decide a new time.. | 17:00 |
| sridhar_ram | we are also missing gongysh | 17:00 |
| sridhar_ram | times up folks | 17:00 |
| sridhar_ram | thanks for joining | 17:00 |
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| sridhar_ram | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 9 17:00:25 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-08-09-16.04.html | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-08-09-16.04.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-08-09-16.04.log.html | 17:00 |
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| mmedvede | #startmeeting third-party | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 9 17:01:45 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mmedvede. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 17:01 |
| mmedvede | anyone is around for third-party CI meeting? | 17:02 |
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| asselin | hi, i'm here | 17:05 |
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| mmedvede | hey asselin | 17:05 |
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| mmedvede | not too big of a crowd lately | 17:05 |
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| asselin | no, but a few updates going on in puppet-openstackci | 17:06 |
| asselin | there was an incompatibility between zuul and nodepool dependencies reported yesterday and fixed in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/352560/ | 17:07 |
| mmedvede | are you talking about pins? | 17:07 |
| asselin | yes | 17:07 |
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| asselin | when installed on the same system. We don't have tests for this...but this would be caught only at the functional level which we don't really have right now. | 17:08 |
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| mmedvede | asselin: this is python package dependency problem, correct? | 17:09 |
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| asselin | mmedvede, yes, for apscheduler>=3.0 | 17:10 |
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| mmedvede | ok, so installing in venv should take care of that too | 17:10 |
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| mmedvede | it is not like zuul depends on nodepool and vice versa | 17:10 |
| asselin | zuul required < 3.0. so jeblair created a new zuul tag 2.5 yesterday that depends on >=3.0 | 17:10 |
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| asselin | mmedvede, yes that's another solution and a good idea actually | 17:11 |
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| asselin | having each service run in it's own venv, not sure if -infra folks would object to that | 17:12 |
| mmedvede | creating venv is not that much overhead | 17:12 |
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| jeblair | we won't run them in venv on infra production servers | 17:12 |
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| mmedvede | jeblair: is it because it adds complexity in debugging? | 17:14 |
| mmedvede | asselin: maybe can be optional just for all-in-one example somehow | 17:14 |
| jeblair | mmedvede: it's also inconvenient for sysadmins | 17:14 |
| jeblair | at any rate, the components should have compatible requirements, so i think we did the right fix this time | 17:15 |
| asselin | mmedvede, either way it would require updating the individual puppet-<service> modules to optionally running in a venv. | 17:15 |
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| mmedvede | right, might not be worth it | 17:16 |
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| asselin | ok, so as long as there are compatible tags of the tools working together in a single node, I'm fine with the current approach | 17:17 |
| jeblair | the 2.5.0 tag for zuul also includes *a lot* of bugfixes, btw | 17:17 |
| mmedvede | asselin: do you have an idea how many third-party CIs run all-in-one, as opposed to similar to infra team's architecture? | 17:17 |
| asselin | mmedvede, my guess is the majority of them...at least for cinder folks | 17:17 |
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| asselin | jeblair, thanks again for creating the zuul tag. | 17:18 |
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| mmedvede | jeblair: +1, I upgraded to 2.5.0 recently, and it runs better so far. I have noticed memory footprint looks better. | 17:19 |
| asselin | I personally prefer keeping tags for all 3rd party ci folks. They have enough stability/maintenance problems as is. | 17:19 |
| jeblair | yeah, we were holding off on tagging that until the known memory leak cleared up, which it seems to have done | 17:19 |
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| mmedvede | thank you for that | 17:21 |
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| jeblair | np :) | 17:21 |
| mmedvede | worth it, would upgrade again :) | 17:22 |
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| mmedvede | should probably set the topic, as there are no set items on agenda | 17:23 |
| mmedvede | #topic Open Discussion | 17:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:23 | |
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| mmedvede | asselin: it seems there are either less problems in CIs, or people do not know about the meetings :) | 17:25 |
| mmedvede | I hope it is the former | 17:25 |
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| asselin | I think there are less problems :) | 17:25 |
| mmedvede | common CI definitely helps with that | 17:26 |
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| mmedvede | thanks for watching that area | 17:26 |
| asselin | \0/ glad to hear it :) | 17:26 |
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| mmedvede | if there is nothing else to discuss, one fyi for today: | 17:28 |
| mmedvede | devstack has been switched to use neutron by default | 17:28 |
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| mmedvede | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/350750/ | 17:28 |
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| mmedvede | I did not notice any side effects in our nova CI, but have seen problems in ironic third-party CIs, that might have been related | 17:29 |
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| mmedvede | any objections to closing the meeting? | 17:30 |
| asselin | none from me | 17:30 |
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| mmedvede | thanks for attending | 17:32 |
| mmedvede | #endmeeting | 17:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:32 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 9 17:32:30 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:32 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-08-09-17.01.html | 17:32 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-08-09-17.01.txt | 17:32 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-08-09-17.01.log.html | 17:32 |
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| ayoung | KEYSTONERS.....chillll | 18:00 |
| stevemar | ayoung: o/ | 18:00 |
| dolphm | ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, crinkle, claudiub, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, gagehugo, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, jaugustine, joesavak, jorge_munoz, knikolla, lbragstad, MaxPC, morgan, nkinder, notmorgan, raildo, rodrigods, rderose, roxanaghe, samleon, samueldmq, shaleh, stevemar, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong, xek: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly | 18:00 |
| dolphm | -meeting | 18:00 |
| henrynash | chillin' | 18:00 |
| dolphm | * https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting | 18:00 |
| stevemar | dolphm: copy paste fail | 18:00 |
| raildo | _o_ | 18:00 |
| amakarov | hi all | 18:01 |
| gyee | \o | 18:01 |
| rodrigods | hello | 18:01 |
| crinkle | o/ | 18:01 |
| gagehugo | hey! | 18:01 |
| jaugustine | o/ \o | 18:01 |
| stevemar | /o\ | 18:01 |
| dstanek | o/ | 18:01 |
| knikolla | o/ | 18:01 |
| LamT_ | o/ | 18:01 |
| dolphm | stevemar: sounds like you're available to run the meeting? :D | 18:01 |
| ayoung | o/\o | 18:01 |
| lbragstad | o/ | 18:01 |
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| ezpz | o7 | 18:01 |
| bknudson | hi | 18:01 |
| dolphm | stevemar: i thought you were supposed to be eating steak with topol right about now | 18:01 |
| stevemar | dolphm: nah i'm at openstackSV, at the keynotes -- not as cool as keystones | 18:01 |
| bknudson | I thought stevemar was conferencing | 18:01 |
| ayoung | ezpz, wrong hand | 18:01 |
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| stevemar | i randomly had 5 minutes to log on | 18:02 |
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| stevemar | dolphm: take it away! | 18:02 |
| dolphm | alrighty | 18:02 |
| dolphm | #startmeeting keystone | 18:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 9 18:02:22 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dolphm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:02 |
| stevemar | dolphm: you remember how to run the meeting? | 18:02 |
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| stevemar | :) | 18:02 |
| bknudson | just like old times. | 18:02 |
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| stevemar | bknudson: #bettertimes | 18:02 |
| ayoung | maybe <o | 18:02 |
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| lbragstad | nostalgia | 18:02 |
| dolphm | #topic Scheduley bits | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Scheduley bits (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:03 | |
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| bknudson | trump will bring back the good old days. | 18:03 |
| dolphm | #info August 22-26 is final release for non-client libs | 18:03 |
| henrynash | (3 minutes in...and first Trump reference already..) | 18:03 |
| dolphm | #info Newton-3 deadline is August ~29 | 18:03 |
| stevemar | hehe | 18:03 |
| dstanek | "Let's make keystone great again" | 18:03 |
| rderose_ | ++ | 18:03 |
| gagehugo | +1 | 18:03 |
| rodrigods | lol | 18:03 |
| samueldmq | hi all | 18:04 |
| stevemar | dolphm: i think the client libraries freeze the same time as the server side | 18:04 |
| stevemar | the non-client libs (keystoneauth and keystonemiddleware) freeze a week before | 18:04 |
| bknudson | do we get to choose when our libs freeze? | 18:04 |
| stevemar | bknudson: nope! | 18:04 |
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| dolphm | #link http://releases.openstack.org/newton/schedule.html | 18:04 |
| dolphm | non-client libs freeze a week early to help ease requirements management at the end of the release | 18:05 |
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| dolphm | #topic Let's make HMT great again: support for delete and update | 18:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Let's make HMT great again: support for delete and update (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:05 | |
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| dolphm | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/project-tree-deletion | 18:05 |
| dolphm | Delete patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/244248/ (abandoned) | 18:05 |
| notmorgan | i might be lurking tody | 18:05 |
| * rodrigods hides in the corner | 18:05 | |
| dolphm | Update patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/243585/ (abandoned) | 18:05 |
| dolphm | stevemar: have a minute for this one, since your name is on it? | 18:06 |
| stevemar | dolphm: sure | 18:06 |
| stevemar | right | 18:06 |
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| stevemar | so, we implemented all this stuff in the controller and manager and backend | 18:06 |
| stevemar | and we don't have an API that can hit it | 18:06 |
| stevemar | so... kinda pointless right now | 18:06 |
| rderose_ | Revert it all! | 18:06 |
| rderose_ | :) | 18:06 |
| amakarov | dolphm, is my patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/285521/ somewhere on the schedule? | 18:07 |
| rodrigods | major issue is because in the HMT design, a project isn't owner of its subtree | 18:07 |
| dolphm | amakarov: no? but feel free to add it https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting | 18:07 |
| gyee | see, see, rderose_ said it | 18:07 |
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| stevemar | so yeah, as rodrigods said, there were issues around policy and what it should look like for deleting / updating a tree of projects | 18:07 |
| dolphm | rodrigods: so the implementation is not ready to be exposed to the API? | 18:08 |
| stevemar | i'm only half joking when i say revert it all | 18:08 |
| dstanek | stevemar: -- | 18:08 |
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| rodrigods | dolphm, looks like it is impossible to implement it cleany | 18:08 |
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| samueldmq | is there a REAL use case for it ? | 18:08 |
| stevemar | my argument is that no one has pushed for it in months, so do we really need it? | 18:08 |
| rodrigods | samueldmq, sure | 18:08 |
| gyee | stevemar, trump was half-joking when he accept the nomination too | 18:08 |
| notmorgan | rderose_: revert allof HMT! /snark, (sorry) | 18:08 |
| henrynash | I think part of the problem was a lack of clarity on the conceptual meaning ....i..e is delete/update tree a single command policied in its own right...or is it shorthand for issue update/delete on every node in the tree and teh regular policy applies to each one? | 18:09 |
| dstanek | rodrigods: so what can we do here? | 18:09 |
| stevemar | i'm trying to encourage anyone to pick this up and finish it :) | 18:09 |
| lbragstad | henrynash isn't that the cascade feature? | 18:09 |
| stevemar | lbragstad: yep | 18:09 |
| rodrigods | dstanek, think henrynash can be more precise about the issues since he made further investigations on it | 18:09 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: yes, because there is no way to specify that in the current policies | 18:10 |
| notmorgan | updating a whole tree is potentially scary (tm) | 18:10 |
| stevemar | anyway, i didn't expect a solution to come out of this, just a PSA | 18:10 |
| henrynash | lbragstad: yes, you could argue that this is expanding teh cascade capability to full delete/update (not just the enabled flag which is all you can do with it today) | 18:10 |
| rodrigods | notmorgan, the update is to disable, that is required for deletion | 18:10 |
| notmorgan | and/or deleting because of our lack of "soft delete" | 18:10 |
| stevemar | i was cleaning old BPs and this one keeps getting bumped | 18:10 |
| samueldmq | anyone picking this up ? | 18:10 |
| dstanek | what does 'update a tree' actually mean? | 18:10 |
| rodrigods | dstanek, disable it | 18:11 |
| henrynash | I'm happ to pick it up, just not sure whether can do this for Newton | 18:11 |
| stevemar | dstanek: only 'enabled' is allowed to be updated | 18:11 |
| dolphm | henrynash: why does a disable have to cascade to take effect? | 18:11 |
| bknudson | what happens if nobody picks it up? | 18:11 |
| notmorgan | dstanek: specifically a disable | 18:11 |
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| stevemar | bknudson: revert it all! <joking> | 18:11 |
| notmorgan | that cascades | 18:11 |
| dstanek | rodrigods: do you have to explicitly disable all child nodes then? | 18:11 |
| notmorgan | bknudson: since no public api... it could be removed? | 18:11 |
| dolphm | henrynash: if any of a project's parents are disabled, the project is disabled, and amakarov's table should make that check trivial | 18:11 |
| notmorgan | dstanek: today iirc yes. | 18:11 |
| rodrigods | dstanek, for the current design, yes | 18:11 |
| dstanek | sounds like we need to fix the glitch then | 18:11 |
| bknudson | ok, just checking there's no huge bug if we don't do something. | 18:11 |
| henrynash | dolphm: I was just describing what the current cascade does.... | 18:12 |
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| notmorgan | dstanek: explicit disable. it still preventx login so security is fine, just a cascade delete cannot occur w/o everything disabled as i understand it | 18:12 |
| dolphm | henrynash: right | 18:12 |
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| dolphm | rodrigods: it sounds like the problem is with checking the enabled/disabled state of a child (which is a read query), not with "cascading" a write to a bunch of rows in the db | 18:12 |
| notmorgan | dolphm: correct. a cascade write would be absurd | 18:12 |
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| notmorgan | and shouldn't be a thing we do. | 18:13 |
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| rodrigods | right | 18:13 |
| stevemar | bknudson: we just end up with lots of ugly branches in our code :( | 18:13 |
| rodrigods | but... as of today | 18:13 |
| notmorgan | doing the "is any of my parents disabled" check should be what is done. | 18:13 |
| rodrigods | we check if everyone is disabled | 18:13 |
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| samueldmq | I think the code is in | 18:13 |
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| notmorgan | this is a QOL change for operators/users imo | 18:14 |
| samueldmq | we just don't know how to expose that in the policies | 18:14 |
| stevemar | notmorgan: you are hardly lurking :) | 18:14 |
| stevemar | hehe | 18:14 |
| dolphm | samueldmq: the perceived "enabled" state of a project is just whether a project AND all of it's parent's are enabled | 18:14 |
| ayoung | samueldmq, policy is kindof all or nothing. It should check to see if you can do the operation based on a role, but dealing with hierarchy is kindof beyond scope | 18:14 |
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| stevemar | dolphm: so yeah, just a PSA, didn't expect an outcome here | 18:14 |
| ayoung | but.... | 18:15 |
| notmorgan | stevemar: i can go away again, i just was dropping in to voice the "this should be safe from a security standpoint" view. | 18:15 |
| dolphm | notmorgan: thanks :) | 18:15 |
| stevemar | notmorgan: we love having you around :) | 18:15 |
| dolphm | notmorgan: not for the going away again bit, though | 18:15 |
| notmorgan | dolphm: lol | 18:15 |
| ayoung | the part that should be checked is the applicability of the token used to request the operation to each of the node | 18:15 |
| henrynash | stevemar: Happy to get this assigned to me to go think about it ad come back with a spec (or not) for Ocata | 18:15 |
| ayoung | nodes to be dleted that is | 18:15 |
| rodrigods | ayoung, right | 18:15 |
| rodrigods | check auth in the whole tree | 18:15 |
| ayoung | and what do we say if the scoped does not match...probably deny | 18:15 |
| stevemar | henrynash: i'd be ok with that | 18:15 |
| samueldmq | dolphm: that made me think in something ... if a parent is disabled, shouldn't its children be disabled too (by consequence) ? | 18:16 |
| rodrigods | authz* | 18:16 |
| dolphm | notmorgan: /nick notnotmorgan ? | 18:16 |
| samueldmq | anyways, we don't do that today | 18:16 |
| dolphm | samueldmq: correct | 18:16 |
| rodrigods | samueldmq, that's the point | 18:16 |
| rodrigods | we don't do that today | 18:16 |
| ayoung | samueldmq, yes they should | 18:16 |
| samueldmq | and we can't | 18:16 |
| samueldmq | because backwards comapt | 18:16 |
| samueldmq | and that would disable auth | 18:16 |
| dolphm | samueldmq: i wouldn't not consider it to be backwards incompatible to fix that behavior | 18:16 |
| rodrigods | don't think changing that breaks the API | 18:16 |
| dolphm | samueldmq: great! | 18:16 |
| samueldmq | can taht be considered a securit issue then we fix ? | 18:17 |
| notmorgan | ayoung: uhm. wouldn't the owner of the top of the tree be allowed to delete even if they don't own down the tree? | 18:17 |
| dolphm | it's not an API change so much as a change in the API's behavior | 18:17 |
| notmorgan | just thinking through the usabilityu | 18:17 |
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| notmorgan | but traversing up the tree no. | 18:17 |
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| dolphm | notmorgan: right | 18:17 |
| rodrigods | the API remains the same, the internal representation that changes | 18:17 |
| ayoung | notmorgan, I was just thinking about that. I need to see what a Linux system does if you try that with a FS | 18:17 |
| rodrigods | although, every GET project needs to look at the parents | 18:17 |
| notmorgan | ayoung: depends on the FS iirc. | 18:17 |
| rodrigods | to check if someone is disabled | 18:17 |
| samueldmq | dolphm: ayoung: cool so we can technically fixthat | 18:17 |
| stevemar | i'm excited to get to the rolling upgrade topic :) | 18:18 |
| dolphm | it sounds like we have some consensus on the topic to move forward then? | 18:18 |
| samueldmq | ++ | 18:18 |
| rodrigods | henrynash will pick it up? | 18:18 |
| samueldmq | henrynash: picking it up? | 18:18 |
| dolphm | rodrigods: well played | 18:18 |
| henrynash | yes | 18:18 |
| rodrigods | :) | 18:18 |
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| samueldmq | henrynash: thanks | 18:18 |
| rodrigods | henrynash, o/ | 18:18 |
| notmorgan | ayoung: http://paste.openstack.org/show/552606/ | 18:19 |
| notmorgan | ayoung: now. iirc you can delete files just not directory inodes. | 18:19 |
| dolphm | #topic Let's make HTTP status code documentation and descriptions great again | 18:19 |
| dolphm | lbragstad: o/ | 18:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Let's make HTTP status code documentation and descriptions great again (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:19 | |
| dolphm | "The docs team wants to provide a template that we can add to our docs that gives some information regarding HTTP status codes along with formal and informal descriptions of what they mean." | 18:19 |
| ayoung | http://paste.openstack.org/show/552607/ | 18:19 |
| lbragstad | ^ | 18:19 |
| dolphm | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/349551/ | 18:19 |
| lbragstad | some projects have already started | 18:19 |
| lbragstad | ^ | 18:19 |
| ayoung | notmorgan, so, to a directory, anything inside it is a dentry, whether file or subdir | 18:19 |
| lbragstad | thoughts/comments/questions/concerns? | 18:20 |
| dolphm | "Thoughts about the documentation and additional descriptions? Should we organize an API sprint to knock this out?" | 18:20 |
| notmorgan | yes | 18:20 |
| lbragstad | I'll take feed back to the next docs meeting | 18:20 |
| notmorgan | ayoung: yes | 18:20 |
| ayoung | so if I don't have perms to delete a subdir, I can't remove the dir | 18:20 |
| ayoung | so if I have x/y/z | 18:20 |
| notmorgan | ayoung: http://paste.openstack.org/show/552608/ | 18:20 |
| ayoung | and I don't have permissions to delete y, the tree is protected | 18:20 |
| notmorgan | ayoung: exactly.for POSIX, non-POSIX... lets just pretend we on't care here | 18:21 |
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| bknudson | for keystone, each operation might have a different meaning for each status code. | 18:21 |
| gagehugo | lbragstad: seems like it would look nicer than what it currently is | 18:21 |
| lbragstad | bknudson yeah - that's the tough part | 18:21 |
| notmorgan | bknudson: also we have duplicated use of status | 18:21 |
| lbragstad | there are a lot of things that can represent a 401 | 18:21 |
| notmorgan | basically the answer should be an "error code" with the status | 18:21 |
| notmorgan | where we can provide it for security reasons | 18:21 |
| dolphm | lbragstad: it sounds like this is a reverse of the normal API documentation structure, which is "here's an API request, and the possible status codes that could result from it" | 18:21 |
| lbragstad | right | 18:21 |
| ayoung | so...on cascading delete, we are doing something like rm -rf proj | 18:21 |
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| lbragstad | for example - see https://review.openstack.org/#/c/349551/1/api-ref/source/v2/http-codes.yaml | 18:22 |
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| bknudson | also, we can have a single status code that has multiple reasons. | 18:22 |
| notmorgan | but we should at least clearly say status possible from API X is Y,Z,Q | 18:22 |
| * ayoung just realized we moved on | 18:22 | |
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| notmorgan | ayoung: yeah sorry, just wanted to hand you the infos for further digesting down the line. :) | 18:22 |
| stevemar | no one stops the ayoung train | 18:22 |
| ayoung | can we say "you need role R to perform this operatoin?" | 18:22 |
| amakarov | I'd be happy if I can find out where exactly was decided to raise 401 basing on status code in non-debug mode | 18:22 |
| samueldmq | bknudson: ++ | 18:22 |
| * stevemar runs off | 18:23 | |
| samueldmq | bknudson: and maybe generalizing isn't the ideal | 18:23 |
| stevemar | thanks dolphm | 18:23 |
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| notmorgan | amakarov: so, 90% of the cases a 401 cannot give much more info | 18:23 |
| samueldmq | why not define the status codes in each API ? as they may mean something different | 18:23 |
| bknudson | the status codes already have meanings defined by the HTTP standard. | 18:23 |
| notmorgan | because we're leaking auth related data to the user then (not auth info itself, auth related) | 18:23 |
| dolphm | there's a table of authentication errors by status code and their reasonings here http://developer.openstack.org/api-ref/identity/v3/index.html#authentication-and-token-management | 18:24 |
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| notmorgan | we would need to restructure our exceptions to directly obscure the auth data. | 18:24 |
| amakarov | notmorgan, ++ | 18:24 |
| bknudson | http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/keystone-specs/api/v3/identity-api-v3.html#http-status-codes | 18:24 |
| notmorgan | auth-related data | 18:24 |
| bknudson | ^ link to the old table of status codes | 18:24 |
| lbragstad | one thing the docs folks wanted was to see if the projects would be interested in this and they would provide us with a template to fill out | 18:24 |
| bknudson | "Normal response codes: 201 Error response codes: 413,415,405,404,403,401,400,503,409" -- not useful! | 18:24 |
| ayoung | the tricky thing we do that messes some poeple up is return 404 when we don't want people to know the resource is there but they don't have access | 18:24 |
| lbragstad | cc annegentle was driving that template effort | 18:25 |
| bknudson | a random string of numbers. | 18:25 |
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| bknudson | should have put "Sad!" | 18:25 |
| ayoung | 418 | 18:25 |
| notmorgan | so, i would recommend 1 of two things. | 18:25 |
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| notmorgan | ayoung: i am not a teapot | 18:25 |
| ayoung | notmorgan, I never said "you" were | 18:26 |
| ayoung | 418 says "I" am teapot. | 18:26 |
| dolphm | this seems like it's not super useful for a data-driven API, which is most of our API beyond auth | 18:26 |
| notmorgan | either we restructure our execptions | 18:26 |
| notmorgan | so we don't pass data back. | 18:26 |
| notmorgan | if this is something worth changing | 18:26 |
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| notmorgan | or we add some level of "error code" that can communicate more data to the end user | 18:26 |
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| notmorgan | but not leak important things like "does X exist, or do you not have any access" | 18:27 |
| amakarov | notmorgan, it will ease problem solving | 18:27 |
| samueldmq | looks like it's orthogonal to whether define the status code or not ? | 18:27 |
| ayoung | what I would like to see is that, if someone calls an API, but does not have any roles on their token, they get back a 401 with a list of roles that would be required | 18:27 |
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| bknudson | btw, these docs are looking good. Room for improvement like everything, but there has been improvement | 18:27 |
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| samueldmq | I see lbragstad as 'define status codes in a single place, in the same way other projects are doing' (which is this topic) | 18:27 |
| ayoung | something like a token with scope but no roles...not a pure unscoped token ,as that is a security thing.... | 18:27 |
| bknudson | we already have securityexception to indicate to hide the details from the user. | 18:28 |
| dolphm | can we keep the discussion on the documentation issue? | 18:28 |
| ayoung | Let the user then request a token with the appropriate scope, if they like the risk | 18:28 |
| samueldmq | dolphm: ++ | 18:28 |
| ayoung | dolphm, is this purely a documentaion question? Did not realize. I thought it was about actually changethe responses | 18:28 |
| notmorgan | the doc change is less useful when hitting the auth wall | 18:28 |
| samueldmq | lbragstad: I'd say that's nice to have, just get what we had already from the docs dolphm and bknudson linked above | 18:28 |
| notmorgan | since everything is 401ish | 18:28 |
| lbragstad | I mainly wanted to bring it up here to see what people though - anne was interested in getting a template rolling | 18:29 |
| notmorgan | otherwise the doc change is useful | 18:29 |
| * ayoung though descriptions meant the message we passed back in the response. Understand better now | 18:29 | |
| dolphm | i'm personally skeptical of the value of this, especially for us, because it doesn't match the workflow that i'd be following if i were utilizing API docs for the first time (i'd be looking at the operation first, then the status code i'm getting -- not the other way around) | 18:29 |
| lbragstad | i can go back to the doc meeting and asking for more information about the intended audience | 18:29 |
| bknudson | is the ask just do we want a summary of how we generally use return codes? | 18:29 |
| bknudson | or how to make something like "Normal response codes: 201 Error response codes: 413,415,405,404,403,401,400,503,409" actually useful? | 18:29 |
| dolphm | lbragstad: that's basically here http://developer.openstack.org/api-ref/identity/v3/index.html#authentication-and-token-management | 18:29 |
| lbragstad | dolphm i see | 18:30 |
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| dolphm | for auth, anyway | 18:30 |
| lbragstad | dolphm sure | 18:30 |
| samueldmq | dolphm: yes, having the status code described in the api description itself is more meaninigful to me | 18:30 |
| dstanek | bknudson: that's what i don't quite understand | 18:30 |
| dolphm | which is our only "interesting" use of status codes? | 18:30 |
| samueldmq | as the API (arguments, etc) would be all in one spot | 18:30 |
| dstanek | who is to use this, how and why? | 18:30 |
| dolphm | samueldmq: that's a better way to describe it | 18:30 |
| bknudson | any application writer wants to know this information! | 18:30 |
| bknudson | deployers want to know why something failed | 18:30 |
| ayoung | I suspect the goal is to keep the meaning of response codes consistent across the services, but having a single doc to start with | 18:31 |
| bknudson | and currently we don't provide that information. | 18:31 |
| ayoung | of course, we are long past "starting" | 18:31 |
| lbragstad | dstanek yeah - i can bring all this to the next meeting and see if I can clarify it further | 18:31 |
| amakarov | bknudson, as for me if I can determine the code that kicked request out, the problem is solved | 18:31 |
| bknudson | amakarov: what if the same code means lots of things? like a 400 ? | 18:31 |
| samueldmq | lbragstad: it would be nice to ahve an exceptions.yaml, somehting like parameters.yaml | 18:31 |
| amakarov | whather it'll be by status code or some magic in status message - doesn't matter | 18:31 |
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| amakarov | bknudson, that's the problem | 18:32 |
| samueldmq | lbragstad: you reference the exceptions in the api description, then they get rendered by getting what is in that file | 18:32 |
| lbragstad | ok so | 18:32 |
| lbragstad | summary | 18:32 |
| lbragstad | there is a fear of duplication | 18:32 |
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| lbragstad | (duplication of docs) | 18:32 |
| lbragstad | Does it match the workflow for anyone using this (why would they use this versus the regular API)? | 18:32 |
| lbragstad | Does this make sense for a data-driven API? | 18:32 |
| dstanek | done...you're welcome: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/api-wg/tree/guidelines/http.rst#n83 | 18:32 |
| dolphm | #topic Let's make rolling upgrades great again | 18:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Let's make rolling upgrades great again (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:33 | |
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| dolphm | so, last week after we approved henry's spec for rolling upgrades, I proposed a simplification (hopefully) of the spec | 18:33 |
| dolphm | this is the spec revision https://review.openstack.org/#/c/351798/ | 18:34 |
| dolphm | i also proposed a draft of what our docs would look like for deployers https://review.openstack.org/#/c/350793/ | 18:34 |
| bknudson | +154, -149 -- looks more complicated! | 18:34 |
| ayoung | dolphm, any propsal to deal with revocations during that time? | 18:34 |
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| dolphm | and implemented a read-only mode config option to support the spec https://review.openstack.org/#/c/349700/ | 18:35 |
| dolphm | ayoung: yes - in that you can't disable or delete anything anyway, so no need to revoke anything ;) | 18:35 |
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| henrynash | so I have a number of questions/concerns about this: | 18:36 |
| ayoung | dolphm, um..you do see thefallacy there, right? | 18:36 |
| ayoung | You are, I assume, just joking. | 18:36 |
| gyee | can't list ldap users either as we can't external IDs | 18:36 |
| henrynash | 1) Obviously it is different to what other services are doing | 18:36 |
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| gyee | can't issue tokens and shadow users | 18:36 |
| dolphm | the tl;dr of the change is that i cut out a few commands from henry's spec for managing metadata about the state of the rolling upgrade, added a read-only mode to protect the live migration process and the application from stomping on each other (which also prevents us from having to write code to handle multiple states of the DB in a single release) | 18:36 |
| henrynash | 2) It isn't clear to me that a RO mode will suit everyone (and of course certainly not anyon on UUID tkes) | 18:36 |
| dolphm | gyee: you can issue Fernet tokens of course, but not UUID/etc tokens | 18:37 |
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| gyee | dolphm, what about shadowing? | 18:37 |
| henrynash | 3) Minor concern over use of config variable, since it means keystone comes up, by default, as RO (on a clean install) | 18:37 |
| dolphm | gyee: there's certainly a constraint there, but my assumption is that if you're pursuing rolling upgrades, you're probably already on board with Fernet (if that's a bad assumption, i'd love to hear feedback) | 18:37 |
| dolphm | gyee: it'd be blocked :( | 18:37 |
| henrynash | (but you could get round that with a database variable instead) | 18:37 |
| rderose_ | gyee: you wouldn't be able to onboard new users during the upgrade | 18:37 |
| dolphm | gyee: no writes to the db during the data migration process at all | 18:37 |
| gyee | dolphm, rderose_, yeah that make sense | 18:38 |
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| dolphm | henrynash: (1) is my biggest concern, but i'd also wager that no other project other than maybe glance would remain particularly useful during a read-only mode | 18:38 |
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| dolphm | glance can still serve images, for example | 18:38 |
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| dolphm | (during a rolling upgrade of a similar nature to glance) | 18:39 |
| gyee | now rolling upgrade on a mult-site datacenter will be even more fun :-) | 18:39 |
| dolphm | so, during a rolling upgrade of keystone, you'd suffer a "partial service outage", wherein you can't onboard new users (including shadowing), manage authz, tweak your service catalog, etc, but you'd be able to create and validate tokens all day | 18:40 |
| rderose_ | ++ | 18:40 |
| bknudson | I hope it doesn't take all day | 18:40 |
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| dolphm | gyee: the duration of read-only mode becomes the concern in that case -- the more nodes you're upgrading, the more time you're likely spending in read-only mode | 18:40 |
| ayoung | dolphm, can we store revoations in a flat file, and run them all post upgrade? | 18:40 |
| dolphm | bknudson: i hope not too :) | 18:40 |
| dstanek | also PCI things would be off during that time. e.g. no recording failed auths | 18:41 |
| dolphm | bknudson: in reality, you're not upgrading one node at a time, but groups of nodes at once | 18:41 |
| bknudson | it would be interesting to see some kind of timing on this, since it's something we've had to guess on. | 18:41 |
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| rderose_ | dstanek: correct | 18:41 |
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| bknudson | I have no idea if the read-only period is 5 mins or 5 days. | 18:41 |
| henrynash | dolphm: so it's probably worth perhaps you giving the reasons why you feel the current spec isn't teh right way to go | 18:41 |
| * ayoung wonders if we should be backing revocations to a KVS anyway | 18:41 | |
| bknudson | we should be backing all keystone data to a kvs. | 18:42 |
| dolphm | ayoung: you can always write to the db yourself? keystone-manage revoke-things-manually | 18:42 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, nah, I am thinking of all the Horizon log-outs | 18:42 |
| gyee | anyone gone through multi-site upgrade so far, I presume there's a step to redo the replication after the upgrade? | 18:42 |
| lbragstad | raw sql for the win | 18:42 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: good point | 18:43 |
| dstanek | gyee: what replication? | 18:43 |
| bknudson | does the server return some http status? | 18:43 |
| bknudson | when it's read-only | 18:43 |
| henrynash | as far as I am concerned we have a perfectly good solution right now agreed...albeit with more steps required (which of course means more possibiliy of operater error) | 18:43 |
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| gyee | dstanek, like replicating data between sites? | 18:43 |
| dolphm | bknudson: yes, 503 on POST and PATCH, for example | 18:43 |
| lbragstad | gyee are you thinking part of the deployment is in read-only? | 18:43 |
| lbragstad | and the other part isn't? | 18:43 |
| dstanek | gyee: in RO mode everything is RO until the upgrade is completed | 18:44 |
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| lbragstad | dstanek ++ | 18:44 |
| lbragstad | dstanek thats how I understand it | 18:44 |
| dolphm | bknudson: new exception is implemented here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/349700/3/keystone/exception.py | 18:44 |
| gyee | dstanek, right, but we'll have to configure to replace any new tables don't we | 18:44 |
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| gyee | replicate | 18:44 |
| bknudson | makes sense. I'll not that we already see 503 errors (from proxy server) | 18:44 |
| dolphm | gyee: i don't understand | 18:44 |
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| lbragstad | gyee no we just not allowing writes through keystone | 18:45 |
| dolphm | bknudson: yeah, this would be the first 503 from keystone itself | 18:45 |
| lbragstad | gyee the upgrade will still write to the database | 18:45 |
| gyee | dolphm, you want to upgrade all the sites, then turn replication back on right? | 18:45 |
| lbragstad | gyee which will replicate like it normally would | 18:45 |
| dolphm | lbragstad: the database itself is not read-only, it's the keystone service that is rejecting write requests | 18:46 |
| gyee | including the new tables and tables we don't want to replicate | 18:46 |
| dolphm | gyee: *^ | 18:46 |
| lbragstad | gyee what dolphm said | 18:46 |
| dolphm | gyee: what tables don't you want to replicate? why do they exist | 18:46 |
| henrynash | dolphm: what about my question of how the RO mode is achiveed...si this by code in keystone itself? If so, would this change only be execuatable for Newton->Ocata | 18:46 |
| notmorgan | don't table creates get replicated? | 18:46 |
| dolphm | henrynash: yes, it's literally this one liner https://review.openstack.org/#/c/349700/3/keystone/common/sql/core.py,unified | 18:47 |
| lbragstad | henrynash read-only meaning keystone will reject requests to write to the database | 18:47 |
| notmorgan | in standard replication models? | 18:47 |
| lbragstad | notmorgan yeah | 18:47 |
| dolphm | henrynash: any driver trying to open a write session with respond to http requests with a 503 instead | 18:47 |
| notmorgan | why are we... i 'm not sure what the issue here is | 18:47 |
| henrynash | dolphm: so that means we can't use it to roll upgrades from Mitaka to Newton | 18:47 |
| notmorgan | henrynash: that is already the case. | 18:47 |
| lbragstad | we're not flipping any specific database bits to make this read only | 18:47 |
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| henrynash | notmorgan: ? | 18:48 |
| notmorgan | henrynash: mitaka => Newton is not rolling upgrade iirc, wouldn't the base be newton to -> o? | 18:48 |
| notmorgan | since support is landing in n? | 18:48 |
| dolphm | henrynash: and L129 documents a workaround for Mitaka->Newton https://review.openstack.org/#/c/350793/2/doc/source/upgrading.rst | 18:48 |
| henrynash | notmotgan: yes it is | 18:48 |
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| henrynash | notmorgan: that's what we agreed in the spec at the midcycle | 18:48 |
| henrynash | and that's what is already up for review | 18:48 |
| dolphm | notmorgan: yeah, good support will be newton to O | 18:49 |
| dolphm | cata | 18:49 |
| notmorgan | dolphm: ok :) | 18:49 |
| dolphm | but in my head, this is possible with some extra effort for mitaka -> newton upgrades if you really wanted to | 18:49 |
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| henrynash | so although I'm always up for simplification, I don't see why we should move away from a commitment of a full RW rolling upgrade.... | 18:50 |
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| dolphm | henrynash: no other project has successfully delivered on true rolling upgrades yet - i'm skeptical that we're going to be able to achieve it in a single release without serious race conditions and other unexpected bugs related to the complexity of the required implementations | 18:52 |
| dolphm | when we have the testing in place to assert that we're doing things correctly and safely (or to show that we're doing it wrong), i'll feel much more comfortable pursuing more complicated implementations | 18:53 |
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| gyee | yeah, lets give it a try, experimental | 18:53 |
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| dolphm | gyee: i can't stomach the idea of treating upgrades as "experimental" | 18:53 |
| rderose_ | I think the difficult part, is that the code has to behave differently based on the deployment phase, read/write to old and new columns for example. Whereas with read-only strategy, it's much simpler in that respect. | 18:53 |
| henrynash | given that in Newton we are doing all the migrartion in one go in the expand phase, I think this lowers our risk | 18:53 |
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| bknudson | if we implement the read-only upgrade, does that block moving to the full r-w upgrade? | 18:54 |
| dolphm | gyee: almost ANY bug during an upgrade is treated as critical | 18:54 |
| notmorgan | dolphm: ++ | 18:54 |
| rderose_ | bknudson: I don't think so | 18:54 |
| henrynash | bknudson: not technically...although the guidance from the offsite was have the same commands as the zero-downtime rolling upgrade approach, | 18:54 |
| gyee | dolphm, yeah, but we guarantee this going to work? | 18:55 |
| lbragstad | bknudson not that I am aware of - a RO upgrade is a little more restrictive and a few less cases | 18:55 |
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| dolphm | bknudson: no; because we can relax the requirement for read-only mode later, and introduce new commands for more granular steps in the ugprade process later | 18:55 |
| rderose_ | gyee: oh yeah, 100% guaranteed :) | 18:55 |
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| gyee | alllrighty then | 18:55 |
| dolphm | bknudson: the basic expand -> migrate -> contract pattern would still hold | 18:55 |
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| lbragstad | a lot of the complexity comes from the write-side of the problem | 18:56 |
| dolphm | all / most * | 18:56 |
| ayoung | 4 minutes left | 18:56 |
| dolphm | ayoung: thanks | 18:56 |
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| henrynash | lbragstad: which we are not doing in N anyway...we are doing the migration in one go.... | 18:56 |
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| lbragstad | henrynash but we don't claim any upgrade support currently, right? | 18:58 |
| dolphm | henrynash: i absolutely want to get to a full R/W capable upgrade, but this feels like a safe step in the correct direction for the next release or two, until we get some experience operating and testing minimal/zero downtime upgrades as a broader community | 18:58 |
| rderose_ | ++ | 18:58 |
| henrynash | lbragdatad: for M->N, yes we will | 18:58 |
| henrynash | lbragstad: we just doing do the migrations piecemeal, on the fly... | 18:58 |
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| dolphm | henrynash: you mean we can't / aren't going to refactor the migrations we've already landed? | 18:59 |
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| henrynash | dolphm: no, but we do repair anything the leave unset | 18:59 |
| dolphm | (time) | 19:00 |
| dolphm | let's carry this on in a mailing list discussion? | 19:00 |
| dolphm | i'd be happy to start it | 19:00 |
| dolphm | #endmeeting | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 9 19:00:34 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-08-09-18.02.html | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-08-09-18.02.txt | 19:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-08-09-18.02.log.html | 19:00 |
| fungi | infra team: assemble! | 19:00 |
| * mordred hands fungi the conch | 19:00 | |
| * jeblair attaches arms | 19:00 | |
| crinkle | o/ | 19:00 |
| AJaeger | o/ | 19:00 |
| jesusaur | o/ | 19:00 |
| * mordred found it laying outside | 19:00 | |
| anteaya | nice | 19:00 |
| fungi | (and i'll form the head) | 19:01 |
| fungi | (until next election, maybe) | 19:01 |
| Zara | o/ | 19:01 |
| pabelanger | present | 19:01 |
| nibalizer | o/ | 19:01 |
| SotK | o/ | 19:01 |
| mordred | fungi: if only we could vote on which body part each of us is going to be ... we need a 2-dimensional CIVS | 19:01 |
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| ianw | o/ | 19:02 |
| * mordred should clearly not be the liver | 19:02 | |
| jeblair | mordred: just exhaustively list all options? | 19:02 |
| zaro | o/ | 19:02 |
| jeblair | mordred: the civs folks will never expect that :) | 19:02 |
| Shrews | o/ | 19:02 |
| anteaya | ha ha ha | 19:02 |
| mordred | jeblair: but what if the top three answers were "fungi | head" , "fungi | arm" , "fungi | 19:02 |
| anteaya | mordred: no way do I want you as my liver | 19:02 |
| mordred | | gall bladder" | 19:02 |
| pleia2 | o/ | 19:02 |
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| jeblair | mordred: the people will have spoken | 19:02 |
| mordred | jeblair: good point | 19:03 |
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| ianw | fungi: i never realised there was a car voltron until recently, i thought it was only cats | 19:03 |
| * jeblair is *not* going to say brexit during *this week's* meeting! | 19:03 | |
| Zara | \o/ | 19:03 |
| Zara | oh wait! | 19:03 |
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| mordred | Zara: it's ok - the meeting hasn't started for real yet | 19:03 |
| Zara | :) | 19:03 |
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| fungi | today's topics brought to you by: zaro, ianw, AJaeger, jpmaxman, Krenair, fungi (if we get all the way through the proposed agenda anyway) | 19:04 |
| fungi | #startmeeting infra | 19:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 9 19:04:40 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:04 |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:04 |
| fungi | #topic Announcements | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:04 | |
| fungi | #info New IRC channel #zuul for discussions on development of Zuul | 19:04 |
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| fungi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2016-August/004614.html | 19:04 |
| fungi | #info New IRC channel #openstack-shade for discussions on development of the Shade library | 19:05 |
| fungi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2016-August/004616.html | 19:05 |
| fungi | apparently the #openstack-infra show has two exciting new spin-offs | 19:05 |
| fungi | hopefully these won't be like laverne and shirley | 19:05 |
| mordred | in stereo? | 19:05 |
| fungi | unless maybe it's the lesser known animated laverne and shirley. that might be okay | 19:05 |
| fungi | except we hope these channels will last more than one season | 19:05 |
| anteaya | I liked laverne and shirley | 19:05 |
| jesusaur | should that be #openstack-zuul? or is it just #zuul? | 19:05 |
| AJaeger | just #zuul | 19:05 |
| fungi | just #zuul, as it's not openstack-specific | 19:05 |
| jesusaur | gotcha | 19:05 |
| anteaya | looks like #zuul was created in 2009 | 19:05 |
| anteaya | which predates openstack | 19:06 |
| mordred | anteaya: we're really good at time travel | 19:06 |
| fungi | zuul gets used far and wide beyond our community borders, so trying to do what we can to avoid making it look like it's openstack-centric | 19:06 |
| anteaya | you are so | 19:06 |
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| ianw | there is also now #openstack-dib for diskimage-builder which may sometimes be relevant to infra concerns | 19:06 |
| AJaeger | Just as quick announcement - if we need more time, we can discuss later: | 19:06 |
| AJaeger | bindep: We've changed the default file name from other-requirements.txt to bindep.txt and once we have done a new bindep release, I suggest we advocate usage of it more. I plan to send an email to the mailing list about this. | 19:06 |
| AJaeger | constraints: All tox based jobs can now use constraints in the gate. I'm currently struggling with a translation change (waiting for merge) and still test a bit but plan to send an announcement to the list about this in the next days. | 19:06 |
| fungi | AJaeger: yeah, i left teh bindep one out of announcements for today, we still need a release, image updates... | 19:07 |
| AJaeger | fungi, yeah... | 19:07 |
| fungi | AJaeger: i have your items as meeting topics | 19:07 |
| fungi | so we can discuss | 19:07 |
| fungi | #info Results Presentation: Operator Information Needs | 19:07 |
| fungi | Piet has invited infra team members (at least those okay with proprietary videoconferencing systems) to see a presentation summarizing feedback from operator interviews | 19:07 |
| fungi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2016-August/004611.html | 19:07 |
| AJaeger | fungi, ok | 19:07 |
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| fungi | also the obligatory... | 19:07 |
| fungi | #info Reminder: late-cycle joint Infra/QA get together to be held September 19-21 (CW38) in at SAP offices in Walldorf, DE | 19:07 |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Sprints/QAInfraNewtonSprint | 19:07 |
| fungi | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:07 | |
| fungi | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-08-02-19.04.html | 19:08 |
| fungi | "1. (none)" | 19:08 |
| fungi | #topic Specs approval | 19:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:08 | |
| fungi | #info APPROVED: Pholio Service Installation | 19:08 |
| fungi | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/pholio.html | 19:08 |
| fungi | #topic Priority Efforts: A Task Tracker for OpenStack (zaro) | 19:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts: A Task Tracker for OpenStack (zaro) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:08 | |
| fungi | zaro: you have some changes linked on the agenda for gerrit 2.11.4 upgrades and its-storyboard fixes, which i approved earlier today | 19:08 |
| fungi | need to discuss anything specific about these? | 19:08 |
| zaro | yes, one more change for its-storyboar #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/353046 | 19:09 |
| zaro | also for gerrit upgrade. thanks for approving those. | 19:09 |
| AJaeger | FYI, there are two changes up to fix warnings/errors building specs: 352215 and 352218 | 19:09 |
| zaro | i'm going to test the features it bring today. | 19:09 |
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| zaro | i'm wondering if we need to schedule an upgrade time/date? | 19:10 |
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| zaro | i mean to review.o.o | 19:10 |
| zaro | or should i just work with an infra-root to approve and make sure it doesn't fail | 19:10 |
| fungi | sounds good. as soon as you're comfortable with the state of review-dev, we should decide on a convenient window (or have you already checked out review-dev at this point?) | 19:10 |
| zaro | have not tested on review-dev yet. | 19:11 |
| anteaya | we are in R-8, feature freeze is R-5 | 19:11 |
| fungi | since it's a minor update and we don't need to do any offline reindex, we should be able to schedule a brief outage on short notice | 19:11 |
| zaro | will do today but shouldn't take too long | 19:11 |
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| * mordred is excited | 19:12 | |
| fungi | but yeah, we're ramping up to high volume time for our whole ci, so soon it'll be harder to do much with it | 19:12 |
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| Zara | =D I've tested the storyboard changes on review-dev and they look good | 19:12 |
| AJaeger | It feels already very high volume ;( | 19:12 |
| fungi | zaro: i could help with the upgrade-related restart on this friday if all goes well. just let me know later today and i'll send out a maintenance announcement | 19:12 |
| anteaya | AJaeger: huge backlog at the very least | 19:12 |
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| SotK | \o/ | 19:13 |
| zaro | fungi: cool | 19:13 |
| fungi | #topic Switch to chrony (ianw) | 19:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Switch to chrony (ianw) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:13 | |
| fungi | ianw: there's a novel on the agenda for this topic. care to summarize? | 19:13 |
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| ianw | fungi: ntpd has been giving us some issues since we tried to deprecate ntpdate | 19:13 |
| anteaya | who is us? | 19:14 |
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| fungi | our (openstack's) ci system | 19:14 |
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| fungi | though it sounds like it primarily hit tripleo | 19:14 |
| fungi | or their workers | 19:14 |
| ianw | if i put up changes to switch everything to chronyd, will people have issues with this? | 19:14 |
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| pabelanger | I commented on the review, if we are going to do it, we'd need to create puppet-chrony as a drop in replacement for puppetlabs-ntp | 19:15 |
| ianw | it seems chronyd is better suited to our needs than ntpd, as discussed (as noted, at some length) in the attached bug | 19:15 |
| jeblair | what about ntpd for servers and chrony for zuul worker nodes? | 19:15 |
| ianw | pabelanger: yep, happy to do that, if we agree to follow that path | 19:15 |
| fungi | ianw: my take was that since chrony was what red hat is replacing ntpd with instead of rolling forward to a default ntpd that has deprecated ntpdate, we should switch to chronyd on red hat based platforms | 19:15 |
| ianw | so i just wondered if it's worth keeping two things running in our puppet, etc | 19:16 |
| jeblair | (could be an opportunity to move ntp out of the worker template and into a dib element) | 19:16 |
| ianw | why i was proposing a global change | 19:16 |
| pabelanger | jeblair: or ansible? | 19:16 |
| fungi | as debian/ubuntu are sticking with ntpd as their default time sync implementation, we continue to use ntpd there | 19:16 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: just so we're really, really, clear -- we are NOT using ansible to build images | 19:16 |
| jeblair | every week we seem to have a conversation about that | 19:16 |
| jeblair | and this is the last one i'm participating in | 19:17 |
| pabelanger | jeblair: right, but have DIB elements to run ansible (over puppet) | 19:17 |
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| fungi | pabelanger: which dib elements are running ansible? | 19:17 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: i don't have an opinion on that | 19:17 |
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| pabelanger | I'm pulling the topic sideways, but none today | 19:18 |
| fungi | i thought we were trying to get configuration management/orchestration services out of our dib elements over time | 19:18 |
| fungi | so that we can avoid having them installed on our images | 19:18 |
| fungi | but yes, different topic | 19:18 |
| pabelanger | I'm happy to talk more about it after the meeting | 19:19 |
| jeblair | ianw: anyway, we know that separating long-running server infra from our worker images is something we want to do anyway, so pulling ntp from the worker puppet (but keeping it in server puppet), then doing something to install chrony in the images via an element seems like a good step | 19:19 |
| fungi | so to bring this back around, are we saying switch from ntpdate/ntpd to chronyd on centos and fedora single-use job nodes, but stick with ntp-wait/ntpd on debian and ubuntu? or switch to chronyd on all single-use job nodes regardless of distro? | 19:19 |
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| jeblair | do we have the same ntp-wait problem on debuntu? | 19:20 |
| ianw | well i would rather not have two branches of time-keeping logic, so we should choose one or the other | 19:20 |
| ianw | jeblair: in the minutes there is a review where someone is having issues, they are using a snapshot though | 19:20 |
| fungi | to my knowledge, the symptom has so far only been observed on centos/fedora dib images booted in tripleo's environment | 19:21 |
| mordred | so, replacing ntpd seems strange to me BUT - if it's a thing we need to do, I tend to fall in favor of doing it everywhere rather than just half of the places | 19:21 |
| pabelanger | tripleo-test-cloud-rh2 was a networking issue | 19:21 |
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| pabelanger | tripleo-test-cloud-rh1 is actually working today | 19:21 |
| ianw | https://review.openstack.org/352621 | 19:21 |
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| jeblair | fungi: oh. hrm. | 19:21 |
| jeblair | okay, what's really going on then? | 19:21 |
| anteaya | I'm in favour of the solution addressing the problem | 19:22 |
| ianw | mordred: yes, that was my feeling, if we could get agreement | 19:22 |
| mordred | ianw: ++ | 19:22 |
| fungi | i just worry that switching all our distros to chronyd flip-flops us from using a non-default time sync implementation on one family of distros to using a non-default time sync implementation on the other family of nodes | 19:22 |
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| fungi | i'm more in favor of sticking with whatever each distro's default recommendation is, even if they disagree | 19:22 |
| jeblair | fungi: i lean toward that way of thinking as well | 19:22 |
| * crinkle too | 19:23 | |
| jeblair | (unless we have a Good Reason(TM)) | 19:23 |
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| fungi | debian and ubuntu seem to be moving forward with the assumption that ntpdate should no longer be used and ntpd needs a rapid quiescence at boot option, while red hat seems to say you should continue to use ntpdate, or switch to chrony because that's what they plan to default to | 19:24 |
| pabelanger | ianw: is 352621 an issue anymore now that ntpdate.service was enabled? | 19:24 |
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| ianw | pabelanger: i think it might be a separate issue due to the use of snapshots | 19:24 |
| fungi | but my interpretation of the bug ianw linked is that red hat's package maintainers have little interest in doing away with ntpdate, and would rather just drop ntpd altogether | 19:25 |
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| ianw | if the choice is to maintain two time-sync paths, then i think i'd prefer to just have a decree that infra uses ntpd and we just suck up any issues | 19:25 |
| jeblair | also, we don't use snapshots | 19:25 |
| jeblair | (and we're not planning on supporting them in nodepool in the future) | 19:25 |
| ianw | jeblair: sure, but my thought is that we might make life easier for everyone | 19:26 |
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| ianw | if chronyd is making better choices about keeping the time in sync for our situation | 19:26 |
| jeblair | yeah, just wanted to throw that out as not being a primary use case | 19:26 |
| fungi | ianw: well, if support for ntpd on red hat is planned to evaporate, it doesn't sound like we should continue using it there | 19:26 |
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| fungi | does chronyd do a good job of keeping subsecond synchronization over teh course of a long-running job, or is it going to be more subject to skips and jumps? | 19:27 |
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| fungi | (and do we care, i guess?) | 19:27 |
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| ianw | fungi: i think for the most part, we're syncing the time in devstack-gate, and from that point we're not going to be jumping much | 19:28 |
| ianw | of course we could move that sync out of d-g into a more generic part | 19:28 |
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| fungi | i guess the ultimate requirements are, 1. make sure we have a fairly high-precision global synchronization of time on our job workers, and 2. make sure it's actually in sync prior to starting job payloads | 19:30 |
| ianw | for something like this, are people happy with a "if redhat include ::chrony else include ::ntp" ? http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/puppet-kerberos/tree/manifests/client.pp | 19:30 |
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| ianw | really, that seems to want to say "kerberos needs the time in sync", but how that happens seems orthogonal | 19:31 |
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| jeblair | i'm still at: chrony in dib on rh, ntp in dib on debuntu (support both in d-g), and ntp in puppet for servers | 19:31 |
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| mordred | jeblair: what about rh servers? | 19:31 |
| AJaeger | mordred: do we have any? | 19:31 |
| mordred | git*.o.o | 19:31 |
| rcarrillocruz | gits | 19:32 |
| fungi | sure, our git servers at least | 19:32 |
| anteaya | the git farm runs centos | 19:32 |
| fungi | and pbx servers | 19:32 |
| anteaya | pleia2: centos6 isn't it? | 19:32 |
| mordred | I mean, it's old centos so does not have a problem currently | 19:32 |
| fungi | or did we switch those to trusty/. | 19:32 |
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| AJaeger | mordred: ah, thanks | 19:32 |
| fungi | mordred: git servers are centos 7.x... not sure how old you mean | 19:32 |
| mordred | me either | 19:33 |
| jeblair | if we want to advance the state of our puppet to be able to run servers on fedora, i'm not opposed to that conditional. | 19:33 |
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| pleia2 | yeah, they're on 7.2 | 19:34 |
| fungi | ianw: what was the bugzilla link for that ntpd systemd element dependency bug pabelanger opened and the maintainer closed>? | 19:34 |
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| fungi | er, systemd unit | 19:35 |
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| ianw | fungi: not sure i saw that one. was it to wait for the network to be up before ntpd starts? | 19:35 |
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| fungi | yeah, i thought that's the one where they had said red hat was going to be defaulting to chrony anyway | 19:35 |
| ianw | cause it kind of deliberately does *not* do that ... ntpd itself picks up when interfaces appear | 19:36 |
| pabelanger | fungi: I haven't created that one etc. It was a dependency issue on networking, which ntpdate.service provided | 19:36 |
| fungi | pabelanger: right, that's the one i'm referring to | 19:36 |
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| pabelanger | fungi: That fixed the need to restart ntpd to get ntp-wait working | 19:36 |
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| ianw | yeah, it is the default for rhel and fedora https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1361382#c7 | 19:37 |
| fungi | #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1361382#c3 | 19:37 |
| openstack | bugzilla.redhat.com bug 1361382 in ntp "ntp-wait hangs after boot for a long time, unless ntpd is restarted" [Unspecified,Closed: notabug] - Assigned to mlichvar | 19:37 |
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| fungi | just found it in the channel logs | 19:37 |
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| anteaya | fungi: thanks for the link | 19:37 |
| AJaeger | ah, fungi-the-irc-search-engine ;) | 19:37 |
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| ianw | alright, well in conclusion, not much interest in switching to chronyd everywhere | 19:38 |
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| fungi | "As a long-term solution it's probably best to switch to chrony. It's the default NTP client in Fedora/RHEL [...]" | 19:38 |
| ianw | i can see what it looks like to just switch centos/fedora, but i'm not really sold on keeping both paths tbh | 19:38 |
| fungi | that's the quote i was looking for | 19:38 |
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| fungi | so based on that i can see switching to chrony as our default ntp client in fedora/centos | 19:39 |
| fungi | because we're running a non-default on those distros right now | 19:39 |
| fungi | and our usual preference is to operate our servers and run our jobs on as default an upstream choice of options as possible | 19:40 |
| jeblair | we have a lot of switches like that in puppet, fwiw. comes with the territory i think. we could abstract it with a new module so we only have the switch in one place and use that module everywhere in puppet. | 19:40 |
| pabelanger | I believe that discussion could also happen upstream with puppetlabs-ntp too, improving support for RHEL / fedore | 19:40 |
| jeblair | (but i still think dib is the way to go if we want to focus on worker nodes first) | 19:40 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:40 |
| mordred | I think worker nodes are the most important part of this | 19:40 |
| fungi | i concur | 19:40 |
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| fungi | #agreed We should take a phased approach switching CentOS/Fedora DIB images from ntpdate and ntpd to chronyd, and then consider whether to also switch to chronyd on our long-running CentOS servers and with conditionals in any of our various puppet modules | 19:42 |
| ianw | ok, thanks, onward ... | 19:42 |
| fungi | that a close enough summary? | 19:42 |
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| anteaya | looks good to me | 19:42 |
| fungi | thanks ianw! | 19:42 |
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| fungi | #topic Bindep uses now bindep.txt by default (AJaeger) | 19:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bindep uses now bindep.txt by default (AJaeger) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:43 | |
| mordred | \o/ | 19:43 |
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| fungi | AJaeger just wanted to mention that some possoble mass change proposals are coming, i think | 19:43 |
| fungi | at least after we get a new bindep release tagged, and then confirmed present on all our images | 19:43 |
| AJaeger | yeah, exactly | 19:43 |
| mordred | only like 150 projects | 19:43 |
| AJaeger | yeah, only ;( | 19:43 |
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| fungi | i'm happy to submit that change when the time comes, if you want | 19:44 |
| AJaeger | If anybody wants to vote in all PTL elections, please tell me and youcan do the changes ;) | 19:44 |
| anteaya | I actually am surprised these days if I see an AJaeger patch that isnt' a mass change | 19:44 |
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| anteaya | ha ha ha | 19:44 |
| fungi | heh, AJaeger has a lot of good non-mass changes ;) | 19:44 |
| anteaya | true | 19:44 |
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| AJaeger | fungi, I'm fine doing it myself - like to complete this... | 19:45 |
| fungi | anyway, for those that missed the discussion, rationale is in the review and commit message | 19:45 |
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| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/350184 | 19:45 |
| fungi | there we go | 19:45 |
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| fungi | #topic Constraints can be used in tox (AJaeger) | 19:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Constraints can be used in tox (AJaeger) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:46 | |
| AJaeger | All tox based jobs can now use constraints in the gate. I'm currently struggling with a translation change (waiting for merge) and still test a bit but plan to send an announcement to the list about this in the next days. | 19:46 |
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| fungi | this was a ton of work, thanks for pushing through it AJaeger | 19:46 |
| mordred | \o/ | 19:46 |
| anteaya | thank you AJaeger | 19:46 |
| rcarrillocruz | ++ | 19:46 |
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| AJaeger | A lot of work by many different people - implementation, review, design discussions, .... | 19:46 |
| anteaya | thanks for shepherding it | 19:46 |
| * mordred suggests AJaeger celebrate at White Trash Fast Food (it's what I would do if I were anywhere near Berlin) | 19:46 | |
| anteaya | ha ha ha | 19:47 |
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| anteaya | AJaeger: are you near Belin? | 19:47 |
| anteaya | or just closer than the rest of us? | 19:47 |
| * AJaeger will drink a glass of wine after the meeting ;) | 19:47 | |
| AJaeger | anteaya: closer than the rest of you ;) 300 miles away | 19:47 |
| anteaya | ha ha ha | 19:47 |
| mordred | anteaya: :) | 19:47 |
| anteaya | day trip for some fast food ha h aha | 19:48 |
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| fungi | wow, now that i've searched for that venue, i'm all up for catching a punk show there | 19:48 |
| AJaeger | A plea for everybody: The tricky part are the post and release jobs with constraints. If anything unusual pops up, please carefully evaluate! | 19:48 |
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| mordred | fungi: it's like the best place ever | 19:48 |
| fungi | right, those have been switched the most recently, so not entirely certain all the bugs have shaken out | 19:49 |
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| AJaeger | and those are also the ones that most people do not check ;( | 19:49 |
| fungi | yep | 19:49 |
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| fungi | okay, anything else on constraints? | 19:50 |
| AJaeger | nothing further from me on this unless there are questions | 19:50 |
| fungi | #topic wiki status update (jpmaxman, Krenair, fungi) | 19:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "wiki status update (jpmaxman, Krenair, fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:50 | |
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| fungi | jpmaxman has done some awesome work getting through an in-place upgrade to mediawiki 1.27 with a copy of our production data | 19:50 |
| Zara | \o/ | 19:51 |
| fungi | that demo is up for all to poke at and see if they can spot anything broken, particularly plugins/extensions we may have forgotten about | 19:51 |
| fungi | #link https://wiki-upgrade-test.openstack.org/ | 19:51 |
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| anteaya | thank you jpmaxman | 19:51 |
| fungi | it's set up with the newer "nocaptcha" recaptcha which is supposed to be a lot better at thwarting spammers | 19:51 |
| * mordred hands jpmaxman a cat that isn't too angry | 19:52 | |
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| fungi | also Krenair has worked out the bits needed to puppet a mw 1.27 deployment on ubuntu trusty | 19:52 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:wiki-upgrade+is:open | 19:52 |
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| * AJaeger hands jpeeler a glass of wine and says thanks! | 19:52 | |
| AJaeger | argh, completion ;( | 19:52 |
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| * AJaeger hands jpmaxman a glass of wine and says thanks! | 19:53 | |
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| anteaya | thanks krenair | 19:53 |
| pleia2 | fungi: also important to note: "ReCaptcha module will be removed in the near future" https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/mediawiki-announce/2016-August/000193.html so it's good we're switching | 19:53 |
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| fungi | i've also added a trove database running mysql 5.6 and our "sane" configuration defaults which jpmaxman is working out some tests of our production data in next | 19:53 |
| jpmaxman | hah hah | 19:53 |
| fungi | after the meeting i'll be following up to the -dev ml with a call for testing on the wiki-upgrade-test site as well | 19:54 |
| anteaya | oh good | 19:54 |
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| anteaya | hopefully the keep the wiki folks will show up in droves | 19:54 |
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| * jpmaxman blushes | 19:55 | |
| fungi | worth noting, new account creation has been open again on the production wiki for a few weeks at this point (i'm just manually deleting spam and blocking spammer accounts a few times a day for now), but file/image uploads have been disabled since the older recaptcha plugin didn't cover them | 19:55 |
| pleia2 | super glad to have Krenair's help on this, lots of great patches | 19:55 |
| fungi | i don't think there's been any testing yet of whether the new nocaptcha confirmedit plugin covers file uploads but we can try that out after we switch production to 1.27 | 19:56 |
| jpmaxman | happy to help hopefully we can bring this home | 19:56 |
| anteaya | will new wiki allow file/image uploads? | 19:56 |
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| jpmaxman | anteaya: right now it is disabled | 19:56 |
| fungi | yeah, "to be determined" | 19:56 |
| anteaya | jpmaxman: thank you | 19:56 |
| fungi | there are also some other extensions we can try adding to further thwart spammers, if need be | 19:57 |
| jpmaxman | yeah there will be work still to be done for sure - the objective is a feature limited spam free wiki to start ;) | 19:57 |
| fungi | as well as the somewhat nuclear option of adding a robots.txt to stop search engines indexing wiki content entirely | 19:57 |
| fungi | if we need to | 19:57 |
| jpmaxman | fungi: I got word we can do that as a short term solution if needed | 19:57 |
| AJaeger | fungi, we could also only blacklist certain file types or all uploads from indexing... | 19:58 |
| jpmaxman | I think the foundation would rather that than the google juice be diluted for all of www.o.o - but that ideally people would be able to find content on the wiki in the future so it should be a short term fix only | 19:58 |
| fungi | AJaeger: yeah, we did that already. blacklisted pdfs and they switched to uploading images | 19:58 |
| AJaeger | ;( | 19:58 |
| anteaya | what do you mean you got word? | 19:58 |
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| jpmaxman | anteaya: briefly discussed with jamesmcarthur and sparkycollier | 19:59 |
| fungi | he checked with the foundation site maintainers as to whether they thought it would help mitigate their concerns about the wiki spam influencing keyword rankings for the www site | 19:59 |
| fungi | anyway, we're out of time | 20:00 |
| anteaya | thank you fungi | 20:00 |
| fungi | thanks everyone! | 20:00 |
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| fungi | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 9 20:00:25 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-08-09-19.04.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-08-09-19.04.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-08-09-19.04.log.html | 20:00 |
| flaper87 | TC folks? | 20:00 |
| flaper87 | annegentle dims dhellmann flaper87 johnthetubaguy mestery mtreinish thingee mordred morgan russellb sdague ttx | 20:00 |
| * amrith carries pop-corn to comfy seat | 20:00 | |
| flaper87 | o/ | 20:00 |
| russellb | hi | 20:00 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:00 |
| johnthetubaguy | o/ | 20:00 |
| annegentle_ | ohai | 20:00 |
| thingee | o/ | 20:00 |
| dims | o/ | 20:01 |
| * edleafe finds a comfy seat in the back | 20:01 | |
| * mugsie lurks | 20:01 | |
| flaper87 | ooooooooooooooook, we've quorum | 20:01 |
| flaper87 | #startmeeting | 20:01 |
| flaper87 | Hello everyone! | 20:01 |
| openstack | flaper87: Error: A meeting name is required, e.g., '#startmeeting Marketing Committee' | 20:01 |
| devananda | o/ | 20:01 |
| flaper87 | As usual, you can find today's agenda here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee#Agenda | 20:01 |
| flaper87 | Let's start with a few "easy" ones | 20:01 |
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| flaper87 | #topic Clarify that cycle-trailing projects follow the milestone deadlines | 20:01 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:01 |
| flaper87 | #link https://review.openstack.org/348501 | 20:01 |
| flaper87 | #fail | 20:01 |
| AJaeger | flaper87: readd #startmeeting | 20:01 |
| amrith | you want to startmeeting again | 20:01 |
| flaper87 | #startmeeting tc | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 9 20:01:34 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is flaper87. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| flaper87 | Hello everyone! | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| flaper87 | As usual, you can find today's agenda here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee#Agenda | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| flaper87 | Let's start with a few "easy" ones | 20:01 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:01 |
| flaper87 | #topic Clarify that cycle-trailing projects follow the milestone deadlines | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Clarify that cycle-trailing projects follow the milestone deadlines (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| flaper87 | #link https://review.openstack.org/348501 | 20:01 |
| mordred | o/ | 20:01 |
| mtreinish | ~o/ | 20:01 |
| flaper87 | AJaeger: I got this | 20:01 |
| flaper87 | #topic Refresh I18n ATC list | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Refresh I18n ATC list (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| flaper87 | #link https://review.openstack.org/351480 | 20:02 |
| notmorgan | flaper87: you can remove me from the ping list | 20:02 |
| flaper87 | notmorgan: yup | 20:02 |
| notmorgan | flaper87: as of today, I'm no longer part of the TC. | 20:02 |
| russellb | notmorgan: thanks again for your service :) | 20:02 |
| flaper87 | notmorgan: thanks for your service | 20:02 |
| * flaper87 will update the governance repo | 20:02 | |
| flaper87 | ok, this one has majority already | 20:02 |
| annegentle_ | notmorgan: sorry to see you go, thanks for the support and service | 20:02 |
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| flaper87 | any reason why this shouldn't be merged ? | 20:02 |
| annegentle_ | flaper87: looks good to me | 20:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | we could try wait for consensus instead, just for giggles, but otherwise, I am happy | 20:03 |
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| flaper87 | now, onto the one I skipped after my failed w/ my copy/paste to start the meeting | 20:03 |
| dims | +1 | 20:03 |
| annegentle_ | johnthetubaguy: 9 is pretty darn close :) | 20:03 |
| flaper87 | #topic Clarify that cycle-trailing projects follow the milestone deadlines | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Clarify that cycle-trailing projects follow the milestone deadlines (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:03 | |
| flaper87 | #link https://review.openstack.org/348501 | 20:03 |
| flaper87 | This one has 8 votes already | 20:04 |
| flaper87 | that's majority already. | 20:04 |
| flaper87 | Any reason why this shouldn't be merged? | 20:04 |
| dhellmann | does anyone have any other questions about that one? | 20:04 |
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| annegentle_ | can't think of one myself | 20:04 |
| * flaper87 is good with it | 20:05 | |
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| flaper87 | ok, sold... I guess | 20:05 |
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| flaper87 | Now, onto more heated topics | 20:05 |
| flaper87 | #topic Replacing Morgan's seat | 20:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Replacing Morgan's seat (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:06 | |
| flaper87 | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-tc/2016-August/001233.html, including various proposals | 20:06 |
| flaper87 | #link https://review.openstack.org/351104 (flaper87) | 20:06 |
| flaper87 | #link https://review.openstack.org/351295 (dhellmann) | 20:06 |
| flaper87 | #link https://review.openstack.org/351427 (anteaya) | 20:06 |
| flaper87 | There are several proposals. The first one proposes using the next closest election to elect all the missing seats. If 1 or more vacants would open before the election, those would be added to the number of seats up for election. | 20:06 |
| flaper87 | The second proposal is to adopt the same model as the foundation and it proposes three different scenarios: 1) Vacancy openned less than 4 weeks before the election and the seat will be contested, then nothing is done till the election. 2) Vacancy openned less than 4 weeks before the election and the seat will not be contested, then candidates that don't win a seat would be asked if they want to | 20:06 |
| flaper87 | serve 3) Vacancy opens more than 4 weeks before the election, the TC consults the last results. | 20:06 |
| flaper87 | The third proposal is to have by-elections as soon as the vacancies open, regardless what time in the cycle we're at. | 20:06 |
| flaper87 | #link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/By-election | 20:06 |
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| flaper87 | I'm fine with either the first or the third option, to be honest. The 2 first points of the second option are fine. The third one is the one that doesn't sit well with me. The main reason is that if it happens too late in the cycle, then I believe we'd be pulling in someone in the TC that could loose to others anyway. | 20:06 |
| flaper87 | The way the community and its members evolve in the cycle is really hard to predict, which is why I'd prefer to leave it up for elections either to the closest election or a by-election. | 20:06 |
| * flaper87 hopes that summarizes the three proposals | 20:06 | |
| flaper87 | (fairly summarizes would be better) | 20:06 |
| anteaya | flaper87: the third proposal is not by-election as soon as the vacany is open | 20:07 |
| flaper87 | anteaya: mind clarifying? | 20:07 |
| flaper87 | anteaya: sorry about that | 20:07 |
| anteaya | the third proposal is by-election, timing and details to be determined based on circumstances | 20:07 |
| flaper87 | anteaya: thanks! Sorry for not summarizing it well :) | 20:08 |
| dhellmann | it's reasonable to expect that we would want to do it relatively quickly, but it's not required | 20:08 |
| anteaya | dhellmann: right | 20:08 |
| mugsie | anteaya: but always holding a by-election? | 20:08 |
| anteaya | mugsie: yes | 20:08 |
| mugsie | OK. | 20:08 |
| anteaya | by-election could be held with other election | 20:08 |
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| anteaya | or if vacancy occurs at christmas the electon could be held when it makes sense to do so | 20:08 |
| annegentle_ | anteaya: other election such as a PTL election? Or along with the already-scheduled TC election? | 20:08 |
| anteaya | annegentle_: either | 20:08 |
| anteaya | whatever makes sense | 20:09 |
| annegentle_ | anteaya: check, thanks for clarifying. | 20:09 |
| anteaya | annegentle_: thanks for asking | 20:09 |
| mordred | there are times when I wish we could CIVS a set of competing specs | 20:09 |
| sdague | my preference is dhellmann's proposal, which aligns with how the board does it more or less. It feels to me like 5 month old results are still pretty fresh in the community given our current turn over rate. | 20:09 |
| dims | i agree with sdague and dhellmann | 20:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | so I am currently preferring option 2, because it saves lots of people a lot of time, and still seems to respect the will of the voters | 20:09 |
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| flaper87 | sdague: 5 months old results is exactly what doesn't sit well with me | 20:10 |
| mugsie | flaper87: no? | 20:10 |
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| russellb | the board doesn't actually specify "consult last results" | 20:10 |
| flaper87 | Things change, people come/go, opinions evolve, etc | 20:10 |
| russellb | it's just up to the individual directors to appoint, and in practice, that's how they've done it so far | 20:10 |
| sdague | russellb: that's why I said "more or less" | 20:10 |
| russellb | but it's not coded that way | 20:10 |
| thingee | I'm ok with the 5 month old results. Not ok with an election to happen and assume voters will be around. | 20:10 |
| russellb | the flexibility is nice | 20:10 |
| mugsie | its a pretty short period of time. | 20:10 |
| annegentle_ | I feel / sense that the 4 week window one is best for a bunch of groups; the electorate, the election officials not having to do a by-election on-demand, and the TC members themselves feeling like there's a process for when you just can't finish your term. | 20:10 |
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| anteaya | thingee: that is why the timing is not set in the patch | 20:10 |
| sdague | russellb: to be fair, I'd also be fine with more flexibility in there as well | 20:11 |
| edleafe | flaper87: we elect people for a full year; I doubt that someone who was voted for last election isn't desireable 5 months hence | 20:11 |
| * annegentle_ still needs to vote | 20:11 | |
| dhellmann | russellb : I would also be ok with a proposal that said it that way, but some other folks seemed to want the details written down | 20:11 |
| flaper87 | thingee: fwiw, my proposal says we could elect the open sits on the next closest election. Not saying it's better, though | 20:11 |
| anteaya | thingee: so the timing can be selected to ensure voters are around | 20:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | thingee: good point, we don't have the best turn out anyways, a by-election is likely much worse | 20:11 |
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| flaper87 | edleafe: well, if that person won already, there's not much to do. If that person didn't win, then there is | 20:11 |
| sdague | johnthetubaguy / thingee ++ | 20:11 |
| thingee | anteaya: that's hard to figure though | 20:11 |
| annegentle_ | oh, and I still am confused on one point... just a sec. | 20:11 |
| thingee | anteaya: we already have problems with usual scheduled elections | 20:12 |
| anteaya | thingee: we can look at email and gerrit activity | 20:12 |
| edleafe | flaper87: but "won" is a relative term in CIVS | 20:12 |
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| anteaya | thingee: yes we do, no argument there | 20:12 |
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| annegentle_ | so do we need the wording from https://review.openstack.org/351104 so that the four-week proposal works (https://review.openstack.org/351295)? They are independent, right? | 20:12 |
| flaper87 | edleafe: yeah yeah, made it into the N seats up for election | 20:12 |
| sdague | and picking voting times then becomes another extra effort | 20:12 |
| flaper87 | :P | 20:12 |
| anteaya | but I think we are futher ahead to have more elections, when warrented, not fewer | 20:12 |
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| thingee | sdague: right | 20:12 |
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| dhellmann | anteaya : flaper87's proposal and mine are mutually exclusive. We don't want both of them. | 20:12 |
| amrith | flaper87, dhellmann I think the compromise between the three proposals is my Aug 8, 6:43am comment. with threshold = 4 weeks. | 20:12 |
| annegentle_ | dhellmann: ok | 20:13 |
| thingee | going down a list of previous voted people is less effort imo | 20:13 |
| dhellmann | oops, meant that for annegentle_ , tab-complete-fail | 20:13 |
| * thingee is lazy | 20:13 | |
| anteaya | thingee: yes it is less effort | 20:13 |
| annegentle_ | dhellmann: happens all the time right anteaya ? :) | 20:13 |
| anteaya | no question about how much effort it is | 20:13 |
| anteaya | I'm talking about value | 20:13 |
| anteaya | and doing right by the electorate | 20:13 |
| sdague | given the historical drift of candidates on the TC list (who ranked where cycle after cycle), I think that a special election is largely going to give us the same results as just pulling from the last election, except with a ton of extra work | 20:13 |
| anteaya | annegentle_: all the time | 20:14 |
| edleafe | vacancies are filled with either appointment or re-vote. Picking from previous results is just one way to handle an appointed replacement | 20:14 |
| thingee | Looking at the list now of the next people in-line, are these people still active and participating? | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | amrith : I don't think civs results in ties, does it? | 20:14 |
| thingee | would anyone have a problem with them? | 20:14 |
| anteaya | dhellmann: it can | 20:14 |
| * flaper87 doesn't want special elections but a simple election on the closest one | 20:14 | |
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| amrith | dhellmann, let me check. I think I looked it up and found that it could. | 20:14 |
| anteaya | dhellmann: but we have rules for tie breaking | 20:14 |
| anteaya | dhellmann: we just have never had to invoke them | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | k | 20:15 |
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| edleafe | thingee: that's the vetting process. If they aren't active, or would upset affiliation, move on to the next in line | 20:15 |
| annegentle_ | thingee: yeah I wondered if we had polled the people next on the list yet... | 20:15 |
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| dhellmann | sdague : I think you're probably right. | 20:15 |
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| sdague | thingee: they mostly all seem active to me, and I wouldn't have a problem going down that list in order | 20:15 |
| edleafe | thingee: or if they are simply no longer interested | 20:15 |
| thingee | edleafe: +1 | 20:15 |
| anteaya | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TieBreaking | 20:15 |
| russellb | anyone have a link handy to the last TC election results? | 20:15 |
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| sdague | yeh, one sec | 20:15 |
| sdague | http://civs.cs.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/results.pl?id=E_fef5cc22eb3dc27a | 20:15 |
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| sdague | dtroyer would be the fix ask | 20:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | just to be clear, did we rule out the not filling the seat until its next up for election approach? | 20:16 |
| thingee | don't think anyone would be upset with dtroyer :) | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | johnthetubaguy : we did not explicitly decide that. | 20:16 |
| sdague | then david-lyle, sdake, anteaya, cdent (in that order) | 20:16 |
| amrith | dhellmann, anteaya found the link I was loking for; thanks anteaya | 20:16 |
| russellb | thingee: truth | 20:16 |
| anteaya | johnthetubaguy: that would leave the seat vacant until next north american spring | 20:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | anteaya: yes | 20:16 |
| notmorgan | johnthetubaguy: my seat would be up in spring. | 20:16 |
| anteaya | amrith: welcome | 20:16 |
| notmorgan | long time w/ an unfilled seat. | 20:17 |
| anteaya | johnthetubaguy: I didn't see that proposal up for discussion, no | 20:17 |
| dims | All 4 algorithms end up with same result dtroyer | 20:17 |
| anteaya | dims: this time | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | johnthetubaguy : you raise a good point, and I think we should at least agree that we want to fill the seat if there's some minimum amount of time left. | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | johnthetubaguy : my proposed minimum is 1 month | 20:17 |
| dims | anteaya : y | 20:17 |
| notmorgan | dhellmann: i think your review specified 4wks, i would go with that over 1 month | 20:17 |
| notmorgan | dhellmann: since months vary in length | 20:18 |
| dhellmann | notmorgan : tomato, tomato | 20:18 |
| anteaya | and the rules we are creating are for filling the seat in an uncontesed way even if someone has an issue with the candidate | 20:18 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: the only reason I think we must do that is because we don't have a consensus model for reaching agreement | 20:18 |
| notmorgan | dhellmann: precision :P | 20:18 |
| flaper87 | that being filling up the seat | 20:18 |
| mtreinish | dhellmann: yeah, I think that was a good minimum | 20:18 |
| flaper87 | otherwise we could live with an empty seat until the next election | 20:18 |
| sdague | yeh, 4 weeks seems like a very reasonable time frame | 20:18 |
| dims | either works for me 4 weeks or 1 month | 20:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | dhellmann: yeah, that seems a good minimum, 4 weeks | 20:18 |
| annegentle_ | #link http://civs.cs.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/results.pl?id=E_fef5cc22eb3dc27a | 20:18 |
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| dhellmann | flaper87 : that's a separate discussion, but sure | 20:18 |
| notmorgan | flaper87: to be fair, I could have also just disappeared and it would be the net effect of an empty seat until next election it was up | 20:19 |
| dhellmann | notmorgan : we would have noticed | 20:19 |
| flaper87 | notmorgan: sure, but we would have noticed | 20:19 |
| annegentle_ | dhellmann: what was an exercise in findability for me was "when do we hold TC elections" | 20:19 |
| dhellmann | are we at least agreed on the 4 week question? | 20:19 |
| anteaya | notmorgan: well then we would have had the disappearing leader issue again | 20:19 |
| dims | +1 on 4 weeks dhellmann | 20:19 |
| notmorgan | dhellmann: right, but there was no handling of that here, and has the same result. | 20:19 |
| annegentle_ | answer: 5 weeks before the Summit | 20:19 |
| anteaya | annegentle_: it is in the charter | 20:19 |
| dhellmann | http://releases.openstack.org/newton/schedule.html | 20:19 |
| sdague | dhellmann: yeh, seems like | 20:20 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: I'm not happy with it, tbh. 5 months old results don't sit well with be but most people seem to be happy with 4 weeks | 20:20 |
| flaper87 | so, I'll live by it | 20:20 |
| notmorgan | anyway. sorry. I'm going back afk and getting food. /me ducks out of this convo | 20:20 |
| dhellmann | flaper87: yeah, one question at a time: so you're ok with 4 weeks? | 20:20 |
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| flaper87 | dhellmann: no, I meant to say I'm not ok with 4 weeks. Perhaps we could make the threshold bigger: 8 weeks ? | 20:21 |
| dhellmann | flaper87 : so you're saying if I resign 8 weeks before the end of my term, you would not replace me until the next election? | 20:21 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: yes | 20:21 |
| dhellmann | that's not the direction I expected you to go | 20:21 |
| anteaya | annegentle_: The election is held 3 weeks prior | 20:21 |
| sdague | that seems long for me | 20:21 |
| anteaya | to each design summit, with nominations due 4 weeks prior to the summit and | 20:21 |
| dims | too long imho | 20:21 |
| anteaya | elections held open for no less than five business days. | 20:21 |
| dhellmann | why would you be willing to wait so long? | 20:21 |
| annegentle_ | anteaya: oh I'd better find the other source I found. | 20:21 |
| anteaya | annegentle_: #link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/tree/reference/charter.rst | 20:21 |
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| edleafe | dhellmann: 8 weeks before the next election, or the end of your term? | 20:22 |
| anteaya | annegentle_: under Election for TC seats | 20:22 |
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| dhellmann | edleafe : either, really | 20:22 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: the reason is that I don't feel ok with using a 5months old results to pick someone that will fill the remaining 7 months of the person leaving | 20:22 |
| anteaya | annegentle_: the only doc that trumps the charter is the foundation by-laws | 20:22 |
| dhellmann | edleafe : the question is how long do we want to allow an empty seat | 20:22 |
| sdague | so, I guess the question we should figure out, is whether anyone objects besides flaper87 ? Because we're +6 on dhellmann's proposal right now | 20:23 |
| edleafe | dhellmann: exactly. The next election keeps that vacancy short | 20:23 |
| dhellmann | edleafe : I think I'm not being clear, so I'm just going to stop offering alternatives. Let's pick one of the two that are written up. | 20:24 |
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| dhellmann | sorry, 3 | 20:24 |
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| edleafe | dhellmann: :) | 20:24 |
| edleafe | I think 8 weeks is much too long | 20:24 |
| sdague | dhellmann: agreed, we don't need to spend from now until the next election discussing how to fill an empty seat :) | 20:24 |
| flaper87 | Ok, there are 7 votes on dhellmann review | 20:24 |
| flaper87 | I guess we should go w/ that one | 20:24 |
| johnthetubaguy | Honestly, I don't think running a new by-election gains enough to justify the effort of all those nominations, voting, etc, etc | 20:24 |
| mordred | sdague: I disagree | 20:24 |
| dhellmann | flaper87: this is a sort of important one, so I'd like to get most everyone on board one way or the other if we can | 20:25 |
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| fungi | in the past we have had a tc election where some of the seats were for a one-year term and some for a half-year term, when bootstrapping the current committee size | 20:25 |
| anteaya | yeah charter changes aren't simple majority | 20:25 |
| annegentle_ | flaper87: only if you can support it. We can work towards consensus here. | 20:25 |
| russellb | dhellmann: would be good to know if the others are abstain / -1 / neutral ... | 20:25 |
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| flaper87 | dhellmann: I'm with your proposal. I'm not happy with the 4 weeks but I'm willing to live by it | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | fungi : yeah, that's more or less what I based my proposal on. | 20:25 |
| fungi | so there is precedent for a seat in an election being for a partial term | 20:25 |
| sdague | dhellmann: right, I'd like to have everyone on the TC register here | 20:25 |
| annegentle_ | only thing the charter says is, "After the initial election, the elections for the Technical Committee shall be held at least every six months." | 20:26 |
| * flaper87 is not trying to rush the discussion but rather trying to reach consensus | 20:26 | |
| sdague | I don't want to move forward on simple majority | 20:26 |
| annegentle_ | #link https://www.openstack.org/legal/technical-committee-member-policy/ | 20:26 |
| johnthetubaguy | +1 for getting everyones vote on this | 20:26 |
| dhellmann | flaper87 : ok. I'm willing to discuss changing that, maybe as a separate thing next week? | 20:26 |
| flaper87 | sdague: that is not what I said, fwiw | 20:26 |
| russellb | maybe quick poll of whoever hasn't voted yet? | 20:26 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: sounds perfect | 20:26 |
| annegentle_ | yeah I'm also fine with waiting | 20:26 |
| dhellmann | flaper87 : I picked what seemed like a pragmatic number but I'm not wedded to it | 20:26 |
| anteaya | Amendments to this Technical Committee charter shall be proposed in a special | 20:26 |
| anteaya | motion, which needs to be approved by the affirmative vote of at least | 20:26 |
| anteaya | two-thirds of the total number of TC members (rounded up: in a 13-member | 20:26 |
| mtreinish | russellb: assuming they're around | 20:26 |
| anteaya | committee that means a minimum of 9 approvers). | 20:26 |
| sdake | sdague fwiw, I am still available for TC seat filling if necessary -but sounds like dtroyer using the 4 algos gets the seat. | 20:27 |
| russellb | mtreinish: yup. | 20:27 |
| sdake | ttyl ) | 20:27 |
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| anteaya | #link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/tree/reference/charter.rst under Ammendment | 20:27 |
| sdake | :) i mean to say | 20:27 |
| dims | sdake ack :) | 20:27 |
| annegentle_ | sdake: thanks, good to know | 20:28 |
| sdague | so ttx is out, dhellmann hasn't voted, who is the missing vote on there? | 20:28 |
| anteaya | charter changes need 9 votes | 20:28 |
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| russellb | notmorgan hasn't voted, heh | 20:28 |
| annegentle_ | russellb: right :) | 20:28 |
| flaper87 | we have 12 votes | 20:28 |
| notmorgan | i am not a member of the TC, I do not get to vote | 20:28 |
| dims | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/351295/ | 20:28 |
| thingee | ttx did vote +1 at one point | 20:28 |
| flaper87 | and one is dhellmann's on his own patch | 20:28 |
| notmorgan | i officially stepped down effective today | 20:28 |
| thingee | just not the current patch :) | 20:28 |
| flaper87 | which counts like a vote | 20:28 |
| flaper87 | :P | 20:28 |
| sdague | mestery: ? | 20:28 |
| russellb | notmorgan: i know, just joking ... were couting up the votes (or missing votes) | 20:29 |
| notmorgan | email was sent to secretary@o.o confirming this. | 20:29 |
| russellb | mestery is probably out, at openstack silicon valley | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | flaper87 : I went ahead and registered my vote | 20:29 |
| annegentle_ | russellb: he's tweeting from there anyway :) | 20:29 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: thanks | 20:29 |
| flaper87 | that helps | 20:29 |
| flaper87 | ok, we're missing ttx and mestery | 20:29 |
| sdague | if we hold it open for 2 more days, think both of them will have a chance to weigh in? | 20:29 |
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| dhellmann | 10 is more than 2/3 of 12, right? | 20:29 |
| flaper87 | we can wait for those and address questions/concerns next week if there are more | 20:29 |
| sdague | it is | 20:29 |
| anteaya | dhellmann: you need 9 votes | 20:30 |
| flaper87 | but we should be fine | 20:30 |
| annegentle_ | dhellmann: it is but this is a good chance to practice consensus | 20:30 |
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| sdague | I just want to make sure people had the ability to voice an opinion | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | annegentle_ : sure | 20:30 |
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| flaper87 | So, Does anyone have concerns about dhellmann's proposal? | 20:30 |
| flaper87 | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/351295/ | 20:30 |
| edleafe | anteaya: the TC is only 12 members as of today, so technically, 8 are needed | 20:30 |
| flaper87 | Any other questions about the process? | 20:30 |
| flaper87 | Any other questions about the requirements? | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | alright, I'm fine leaving it open until next week. we should ask dtroyer to join us for the meeting. | 20:30 |
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| annegentle_ | dhellmann: sounds good | 20:31 |
| dtroyer | fwiw, I'm here | 20:31 |
| amrith | edleafe, normally in the computation of vote margins, it is the size of the body, not the number currently present. so 9 is still required; IMHO | 20:31 |
| dhellmann | dtroyer : I meant to make sure you were here next week :-) | 20:31 |
| annegentle_ | dtroyer: thanks for being here | 20:31 |
| edleafe | amrith: the body is only 12 | 20:31 |
| dtroyer | dhellmann: roger | 20:31 |
| amrith | no, the body is 13, 12 members. | 20:31 |
| mugsie | amrith: the wording would indicate 12 memebers | 20:31 |
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| sdague | dtroyer: so, question, do you remain interested in serving on the TC? | 20:31 |
| flaper87 | we'll have to wait till ttx is back anyway. I don't have +W and It'd be great to have his opinion (and mestery's too) | 20:31 |
| dhellmann | amrith : 10 is also > 2/3 of 13 | 20:31 |
| sdague | because if the answer is yes, that simplifies talking with folks down the list | 20:31 |
| dtroyer | sdague: yes, I would happily fill the remaining term if asked | 20:32 |
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| sdague | ok, cool, so we have that data point in public | 20:32 |
| dims | thanks dtroyer | 20:32 |
| flaper87 | dtroyer: danke | 20:32 |
| sdague | ok, I move we leave voting open until ttx and mestery express a vote, or next meeting, whichever comes first | 20:32 |
| sdague | and we move to next topic | 20:32 |
| dhellmann | ++ | 20:32 |
| flaper87 | sdague: just said that :P | 20:32 |
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| johnthetubaguy | ++ | 20:33 |
| dims | ++ flaper87 sdague | 20:33 |
| amrith | dhellmann, you are correct. sorry; 9 or > | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | flaper87 : as chair, will you ping both ttx and mestery in the mean time? | 20:33 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: yup, on it | 20:33 |
| flaper87 | moving on | 20:33 |
| flaper87 | #topic Community-wide goals | 20:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Community-wide goals (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:33 | |
| flaper87 | #link https://review.openstack.org/349068 | 20:33 |
| flaper87 | #link https://review.openstack.org/349069 | 20:33 |
| flaper87 | #link https://review.openstack.org/349070 | 20:33 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: I'll let you summarize/introduce this one | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | ok | 20:34 |
| dhellmann | this is the write-up of the idea that we discussed the thursday of the training in ann arbor | 20:34 |
| dhellmann | the idea is to be a little more active in encouraging the community to take some specific actions each cycle | 20:34 |
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| dhellmann | I've included 2 specific proposals from the list that we discussed as examples | 20:35 |
| dhellmann | there has been a fair amount of concern about consequences for not following through on goals, but very little discussion of the specific goals proposed | 20:35 |
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| sdague | I think both goals are good small scoped ones | 20:35 |
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| thingee | sdague: +1 | 20:35 |
| * flaper87 likes what's up there | 20:36 | |
| dhellmann | I'll try to summarize ttx's comments on the consequences by saying that failing to follow through is not an immediate trigger for being dropped, but it may be seen as part of a larger set of signals that a project does not really consider itself part of the community | 20:36 |
| mordred | I also think that starting from a "hey everybody, let's all try to ..." is great. nobody has done it yet. might someone choose to not play ball? sure | 20:36 |
| dhellmann | his wording on the mailing list is probably better | 20:36 |
| sdague | good to test the process, mostly I've been thinking about how to use something similar to help drive the upgrades conversation | 20:36 |
| mordred | and then yeah, ttx said that well | 20:36 |
| annegentle_ | dhellmann: are the two proposed the "typical" scope you'd expect? | 20:36 |
| annegentle_ | dhellmann: or are you ready for more to be proposed by others? | 20:36 |
| annegentle_ | sdague: yeah and I was thinking of something around api-ref now that I have the numbers and the nav is coming together. | 20:36 |
| thingee | ttx's wording http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-August/100670.html | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | annegentle_ : my sense is that we only want a couple of these each cycle, so I don't think we want more right now unless we reject one of these | 20:37 |
| mugsie | mordred: sure - but I am not sure I would be happy top have this morph into "do this or leave" conversation | 20:37 |
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| annegentle_ | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-August/100670.html | 20:37 |
| sdague | annegentle_: right, we'd probably have done *this* for api-ref this cycle if we had this process | 20:37 |
| mordred | mugsie: totally | 20:37 |
| sdague | we kind of ad-hoced it | 20:37 |
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| dhellmann | as far as scope, we want things to be finished in a cycle, rather than being of indefinite length, and that's going to naturally limit the scope | 20:37 |
| sdague | but, it would be a very reasonable 3rd thing to use this process this next cycle | 20:37 |
| mugsie | which is why I think there needs to be more concrete wording about consequences | 20:37 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: question: I don't remember if it was mentioned/discussed whether some of this goals would eventually become requirements for entrance to the big tent. I think I read new projects have 1 year to be compliant with some of these goals, is that right? | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | large initiatives will need to be broken into phases | 20:37 |
| mordred | mugsie: I think I'd rather just see people get excited about a few shared esprit-de-corps types of things - without us holding an axe over anyone's head | 20:38 |
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| annegentle_ | dhellmann: ok, makes sense | 20:38 |
| flaper87 | For example, if all projects manage to migrate to py35, we might want to ask new projects to be py35 compliant | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | flaper87 : I believe somewhere in that patch I say that all teams need to do the goals. that would apply to new teams, too. | 20:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: I was just going to suggest we might want to add it still | 20:38 |
| mugsie | mordred: yeah - but the ML has been hinting at it having consequences | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | flaper87 : if we need to clarify that, we can work on language in another patch? | 20:38 |
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| thingee | mugsie: I don't really find it productive to speculate that there would be a goal agreed that would cause problems. | 20:38 |
| annegentle_ | dhellmann: Also, forgive me if I'm behind on the ML discussion: do we see these as themes for a release such as what the product group has discussed? | 20:38 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: yup, sounds perfect. I;ve voted already | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | annegentle_ : a bit more narrow, though ttx did mention that the foundation might use them as "look what we did" type messaging at summits | 20:39 |
| johnthetubaguy | annegentle_: I think these goals are generally more specific | 20:39 |
| mugsie | thingee: well, teams are differning sizes. A team might decide that actully writing docs this cycle is better for users, for example | 20:39 |
| sdague | honestly, I really rather just think of this as information gathering and exposure | 20:39 |
| mordred | mugsie: I tihnk thingee just said what I was thinking - hopefully these are all just putting words to things that are already on people's lists anyway | 20:39 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: +1 | 20:39 |
| mordred | mugsie: and I think there's a difference in "we couldn't get to it" and "screw you guys, we're not doing it" | 20:39 |
| mugsie | the current 2 are fine, nice small, and common sense | 20:39 |
| sdague | because I think that we state some goals, ask people to work towards them, make sure we captures what's getting done, and it helps us all have a better picture of the state of openstack | 20:39 |
| thingee | mordred: +1 | 20:40 |
| flaper87 | I think this is a very good start for the community-goals effort | 20:40 |
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| thingee | flaper87: agreed, it has to start somewhere. | 20:40 |
| annegentle_ | I sorta read it as "replace the giant cross-project spec with smaller goals" -- is that an accurate assessment? | 20:40 |
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| thingee | annegentle_: I think specs will still exist as reference | 20:40 |
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| thingee | there is no replacing here | 20:40 |
| dhellmann | annegentle_ : not really. by the time something is ready to be approved as a goal, I would expect the path to finishing it to be very clear already. | 20:40 |
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| johnthetubaguy | dhellmann: so I was kinda expecting us to merge the goals post summit, but I guess this is us going to the summit with some merged ideas to spark the conversation? | 20:41 |
| dhellmann | for example, one of the other things discussed was moving all projects so they can be deployed behind apache | 20:41 |
| thingee | dhellmann: +1 | 20:41 |
| sdague | this feels more about execution support | 20:41 |
| flaper87 | johnthetubaguy: yeah | 20:41 |
| dhellmann | figuring out how to do that is going to require work up front | 20:41 |
| annegentle_ | ok that's useful thanks dhellmann thingee | 20:41 |
| dhellmann | johnthetubaguy : right, we need to land these in time for teams to (a) know about the fact that we expect them to dedicate time to them and (b) have time to do any planning at the summit | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | johnthetubaguy : in future cycles, we'll be doing this right before the PTG | 20:42 |
| annegentle_ | only other question that I hadn't put on review is related to: if you author the goal are you then responsible/accountable for follow up in supporting teams to get what they need to complete the goal? | 20:42 |
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| sdague | because a bunch of the openstack-specs were like "let's do this thing!" and even if they got approved, then actually doing that thing, and figuring out where that stood in all the projects, was pretty nebulous. And if you can't see how far away the end game is, people get demotivated | 20:42 |
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| annegentle_ | sdague: yeah exactly the scenario I played through too | 20:42 |
| sdague | it was amazing how much just doing this http://burndown.dague.org/ helped us work through our api-ref on nova | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | annegentle_ : that's a good question. I hope not. I've written this so that we only want goals to be documented by a tc member, in part to avoid having the governance repo turn into the cross-project specs repo. | 20:43 |
| annegentle_ | dhellmann: ayup, got it. | 20:43 |
| mugsie | so, in that line of thinking, would goals that only really affect a few projects be accepted? | 20:43 |
| thingee | annegentle_, dhellmann: I don't think it should. it should be up to the team. | 20:43 |
| dims | annegentle_ : +1 should have sufficient help to the teams | 20:43 |
| flaper87 | sdague: lol, I read "execution support" entirely wrong | 20:43 |
| flaper87 | sdague: good thing you elaborated on that | 20:43 |
| sdague | flaper87: heh | 20:43 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: it was so good we stole that for the configuration options: http://45.55.105.55:8082/config-options.html | 20:43 |
| thingee | annegentle_, dhellmann the TC may review who has followed through the goals though and may reach out to projects. | 20:44 |
| dhellmann | mugsie : the oslo goal that's up now affects fewer projects than I thought when I wrote it up, but we wouldn't be likely to take something as "community wide" if we knew from the outset that it was only 2 projects. | 20:44 |
| dhellmann | thingee : yes, we need to do that review at the end of each cycle | 20:44 |
| thingee | dhellmann: great, I think that's the only follow-up that needs to happen. leave the goal author out of it | 20:45 |
| dhellmann | sdague : I may be interested in the code for that for release tracking | 20:45 |
| annegentle_ | dhellmann: and is it worthwhile to propose something that affects one team only? Or is that a 1:1 convo with that team's lead? | 20:45 |
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| dhellmann | annegentle_ : these are for community-wide goals | 20:45 |
| sdague | dhellmann: yeh, sure, I have thoughts about how to make it more generic. We can do that offline. | 20:45 |
| thingee | dhellmann: I think it's going to be enough work just getting a goal agreed. | 20:45 |
| dhellmann | annegentle_ : if we need a way to make recommendations to individual teams, we need a new process | 20:45 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: markus_z did a bit of that, possibly | 20:45 |
| flaper87 | thingee: ++ | 20:45 |
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| dhellmann | annegentle_ : I'd be happy to collaborate on designing that | 20:45 |
| annegentle_ | dhellmann: ok, thanks | 20:46 |
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| flaper87 | ok, we have 5 more mins for this topic. Anything else people would like to ask? Other open questions? Huge objections? | 20:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | dhellmann: would we not just use the team's own process for work, if its team specific? | 20:46 |
| flaper87 | The review will be open till ttx is back so there's still time to comment on the review | 20:46 |
| russellb | i like it. thanks for driving this, dhellmann | 20:46 |
| annegentle_ | that's all I have, hadn't voted yet as I needed to ask these | 20:46 |
| sdague | I think this process is useful for even fully understanding how far away we are from things, as dhellmann said, we didn't even know how big the oslo gap was (which is smaller than anticipated) until doing that analysis | 20:46 |
| russellb | and the goals seem like obviously good ones | 20:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: +1 | 20:46 |
| sdague | which is incredibly valuable all on it's own | 20:47 |
| dhellmann | johnthetubaguy : if the tc is asking a team to do something they're not already prioritizing, we may want to do that a different way | 20:47 |
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| flaper87 | annegentle_: I always look forward to your questions, fwiw | 20:47 |
| flaper87 | :) | 20:47 |
| johnthetubaguy | dhellmann: honestly, that feels bad to me, but thats a separate conversation | 20:47 |
| annegentle_ | heh :) | 20:47 |
| johnthetubaguy | so I love the goals | 20:47 |
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| sdague | and I agree with russellb, thanks dhellmann for driving this | 20:47 |
| dhellmann | johnthetubaguy : right | 20:47 |
| johnthetubaguy | its totally something I wanted to see happen while I was on the TC, and love this approach | 20:47 |
| flaper87 | Ok, unless there are other questions/comments, I think we can move on | 20:48 |
| johnthetubaguy | I am tempted to say what we have before the PTG/summit is a draft that could get torn up, but thats just splitting hairs | 20:48 |
| annegentle_ | johnthetubaguy: yeah I do think timing will matter too | 20:48 |
| johnthetubaguy | we need something before, else nothing will happen | 20:49 |
| johnthetubaguy | but its likely to get revised | 20:49 |
| dhellmann | yeah, we're going to need to work quickly to get goals out of this summit to work on before the ptg in feb | 20:49 |
| johnthetubaguy | but honestly, we should just do it | 20:49 |
| flaper87 | johnthetubaguy: yeah, that was one of the goals | 20:49 |
| dims | we should encourage PTL's to file some too? (ex stevemar to add a goal for keystone v3 api support in all projects) | 20:49 |
| annegentle_ | dims: good Q | 20:49 |
| dhellmann | dims : as written, this says tc members will write them up | 20:50 |
| dhellmann | I want *us* to be active in this process. | 20:50 |
| dims | dhellmann : ok collaborate with one of us to file it | 20:50 |
| russellb | need to keep a reasonable limit on the number of these, too | 20:50 |
| dhellmann | everyone can propose them, but I want us to take the step of documenting them, and choosing them | 20:50 |
| johnthetubaguy | I guess its just a case of getting a sponsor via the ML | 20:50 |
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| flaper87 | dims: and I see those as different goals but we can elaborate on this later | 20:50 |
| sdague | dhellmann: ++ | 20:50 |
| dims | right | 20:50 |
| russellb | and just approve a couple/few highest priority ones.. | 20:50 |
| sdague | let's start with us deep in the middle of this | 20:51 |
| annegentle_ | dhellmann: yeah I'd imagine a deadline, then a discussion meeting at regular TC meeting time. | 20:51 |
| russellb | at least to start with | 20:51 |
| dhellmann | dims : also, I do not expect us to be choosing from a bunch of written up goals each cycle. I expect us to have a list of things coming out of the summit, get it narrowed down, then write up a couple of finalists. | 20:51 |
| russellb | dhellmann: ++ | 20:51 |
| flaper87 | russellb: I thin kthe priority of some of these goals will be the key of how they will be merged | 20:51 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: ++ | 20:51 |
| annegentle_ | dhellmann: oh even better | 20:51 |
| sdague | dhellmann: ++ | 20:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | dhellmann: ++ thats what I was kinda trying to say | 20:51 |
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| dims | ack dhellmann | 20:51 |
| flaper87 | ok, 10 mins left, let's move onto Open Discussion! Thanks again, dhellmann | 20:51 |
| dhellmann | we're the last step in this process | 20:51 |
| mtreinish | dhellmann: ++ | 20:51 |
| dims | makes sense | 20:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | +1 | 20:51 |
| dhellmann | well, aside from implementation :-) | 20:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | heh | 20:51 |
| flaper87 | #topic Open discussion | 20:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:52 | |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: got mestery to vote on the patch | 20:52 |
| dhellmann | flaper87 : ++ | 20:52 |
| flaper87 | ttx will vote when he's back | 20:52 |
| * dims is away on vacation next week | 20:52 | |
| flaper87 | * Agree to at least temporarily abandon stalled items: | 20:52 |
| flaper87 | #link https://review.openstack.org/338796 | 20:52 |
| flaper87 | #link https://review.openstack.org/314691 | 20:52 |
| flaper87 | #link https://review.openstack.org/295971 | 20:52 |
| flaper87 | #link https://review.openstack.org/295528 | 20:52 |
| * flaper87 is away on vacation next week too | 20:52 | |
| flaper87 | Any comments on those reviews? | 20:52 |
| dhellmann | flaper87 : those release model items can be dropped | 20:52 |
| mtreinish | flaper87: I'll abandon mine on that list | 20:52 |
| flaper87 | Any reason why those shouldn't be abandoned ? | 20:52 |
| flaper87 | mtreinish: thanks | 20:52 |
| flaper87 | sdake: ^ | 20:52 |
| mtreinish | I still need to write up the followup proposal | 20:52 |
| dhellmann | flaper87 : sorry, the 'type' tag items | 20:53 |
| mtreinish | I keep forgetting to do that | 20:53 |
| thingee | don't think 338796 is stalled ... the author has been active and waiting for a response from the tc | 20:53 |
| dhellmann | the release team isn't going to use those for now | 20:53 |
| thingee | mordred: ^ | 20:53 |
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| sdake | flaper87 it makes it hard for me to find the original comments | 20:53 |
| annegentle_ | thingee: yeah I'd agree with that assessment too | 20:53 |
| russellb | mestery voted on the tc vacancy review as well | 20:53 |
| sdake | flaper87 but i guess I can unabandon them when I get around to it | 20:53 |
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| flaper87 | sdake: yes | 20:53 |
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| dhellmann | sdake : yes, please | 20:53 |
| flaper87 | sdake: please :) | 20:53 |
| sdague | sdake: owner:self status:abandoned | 20:53 |
| flaper87 | sdake: both of them, if you don't mind | 20:54 |
| sdague | it's easy to search for them | 20:54 |
| mordred | thingee: yah - it's on my list | 20:54 |
| flaper87 | ok, who's out next week? | 20:54 |
| fungi | oh, that reminds me we need the vmt to weigh in on https://review.openstack.org/350597 (which will just be a request to start with a thread on the -dev ml) | 20:54 |
| sdake | flaper87 feel free to abandon them - they will be in my inbox | 20:54 |
| thingee | flaper87: me | 20:54 |
| thingee | spain and burning man | 20:54 |
| flaper87 | sdake: either you or ttx can do that :( | 20:54 |
| dhellmann | sdake : flaper87 doesn't have permission to do it | 20:54 |
| sdake | flaper87 i'll get around to em some day when shit isn't on fire ;) | 20:54 |
| sdake | oh ok | 20:54 |
| sdake | got specific links? | 20:54 |
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| anteaya | sdake: can we not swear please | 20:55 |
| sdake | sorry | 20:55 |
| sdake | some day when things are not on fire | 20:55 |
| dhellmann | sdake : https://review.openstack.org/#/c/295971/ and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/295528/ | 20:55 |
| anteaya | thank you | 20:55 |
| sdake | thanks dhellmann | 20:55 |
| flaper87 | sdake: https://review.openstack.org/295971 | 20:55 |
| flaper87 | sdake: https://review.openstack.org/295528 | 20:55 |
| flaper87 | so, thingee dims and myself will be out | 20:55 |
| flaper87 | anyone else? | 20:55 |
| annegentle_ | flaper87: your linking is on fire today :) | 20:55 |
| dims | good job flaper87 :) | 20:55 |
| mtreinish | flaper87: next week? | 20:55 |
| flaper87 | sounds like there will be quorum so, there should be meeting | 20:55 |
| dhellmann | yeah, thanks again for being chair flaper87 | 20:55 |
| flaper87 | mtreinish: yes | 20:55 |
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| annegentle_ | flaper87: yeah thanks | 20:56 |
| flaper87 | my pleasure :) | 20:56 |
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| edleafe | yeah - kudos flaper87! | 20:56 |
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| flaper87 | edleafe: annegentle_ danke danke :) | 20:56 |
| flaper87 | ok, anything else pressing to discuss ? | 20:57 |
| russellb | thanks, flaper87, and enjoy your time off! | 20:57 |
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| flaper87 | otherwise, we can call it a meeting and be happy to have closed it a couple of mins earlier | 20:57 |
| flaper87 | Or I can do the flaper87 thing and keep talking till time's up | 20:57 |
| * flaper87 is Italian, he knows how to do that | 20:57 | |
| flaper87 | russellb: thanks :) | 20:57 |
| sdague | thanks flaper87 | 20:58 |
| sdake | flaper87 your wish is my command :) | 20:58 |
| * flaper87 bows | 20:58 | |
| sdake | enjoy | 20:58 |
| flaper87 | ok, let's call it! | 20:58 |
| flaper87 | thanks everyone | 20:58 |
| flaper87 | have a great rest of your week | 20:58 |
| amrith | thx flaper87 | 20:58 |
| flaper87 | #endmeeting | 20:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 9 20:58:28 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-08-09-20.01.html | 20:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-08-09-20.01.txt | 20:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-08-09-20.01.log.html | 20:58 |
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| stevemar | dims: for sure | 21:05 |
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| dims | stevemar : how was your presentation? | 21:06 |
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