Tuesday, 2016-08-16

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hongbin#startmeeting zun03:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Aug 16 03:00:08 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is hongbin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.03:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.03:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zun)"03:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'zun'03:00
hongbin#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun#Agenda_for_2016-08-16_0300_UTC Today's agenda03:00
hongbin#topic Roll Call03:00
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yuanyingOTSUKA, Motohiro03:00
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hongbinThanks for joining the meeting sudipto yuanying Wenzhi03:01
hongbinPause a few more seconds for potential attendees03:01
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hongbinI know Madhuri is not able to join today03:02
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hongbinOK. Let's start03:03
hongbin#topic Announcements03:03
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hongbin1. I am proposing Sudipta Biswas and Wenzhi Yu to join the core team. Your feedback on the ML are welcome :).03:03
hongbin#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-August/101344.html03:03
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hongbin#topic Review Action Items03:03
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hongbin1. hongbin created a BP for multi-tenancy support (DONE)03:03
hongbineliqiao: hey03:03
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hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/support-multi-tenancy03:04
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hongbinThanks Wenzhi for volunteering to take this BP03:04
WenzhiI'll work on that03:04
yanyanhuhi, sorry just finished another meeting03:04
Wenzhinp :)03:04
hongbinyanyanhu: NP. Glad that you are here :)03:04
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eliqiaodoes multi-tenancy support mean that we can allow mulitple container running on same host?03:05
hongbinWenzhi: For the multi-tenancy BP, what I normally do is to ask the owner to report status every week at the meeting03:05
hongbinWenzhi: Do you mind to do that?03:05
Wenzhisure thing03:05
hongbinWenzhi: thx :)03:05
hongbineliqiao: NO, that is different thing03:06
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hongbineliqiao: multi-tenancy support simply means hide containers from other tenants03:06
hongbineliqiao: For example, in Nova, you  cannot list VMs from other tenants03:06
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eliqiaookay, seems same as magnum/nova implementation.03:06
eliqiaowe need to consider more since we are containers not VMs03:07
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hongbinThat is correct03:07
eliqiaofor the containers' isolation issue etc.03:07
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hongbinYes, isolation is another thing we need to solve03:07
sudiptofrom multi-tenancy per say - we would probably want to define quotas too?03:07
hongbinsudipto: Yes, possibly03:07
hongbinsudipto: Like how many containers a tenant can create ?03:08
sudiptohongbin, yeah03:08
hongbinsudipto: that would be a cool feature03:08
hongbindefinitely, it can be implemented03:08
sudiptoand then i was thinking, if we want to do a COE implementation - we probably have to have that same quota imposed in a different way for a cluster.03:08
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hongbinsame quota imposed across different COEs?03:09
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sudiptocluster = sum(containers) . so that could mean two impositions, one on the level of clusters - how many clusters can a user provision + how many containers can be within in.03:09
sudiptobut both can be independent of each other.03:10
hongbininteresting idea03:10
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Wenzhihow about different quota for clusters and  containers03:11
sudiptoand then depends on what level of exposure we have - w.r.t IPs - if we want to have quota imposed at the level of services (like k8s) - then it's a different thing vs having it on crude containers.03:11
sudiptoso yeah - i guess it deserves a ether pad discussion too IMHO.03:11
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WenzhiI'll create that etherpad03:12
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hongbinCool. Anything else regarding to the multi-tenancy topic?03:12
sudiptoare we aiming at segregate the COE implementation completely from the native docker APIs?03:12
Qiming-1 to inventing a zun-specific quota management ifra03:13
sudiptoas in it's an either and or?03:13
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hongbinsudipto: My understanding is we are doing the container api now03:14
sudiptoQiming, ideally the quota management should be at the level of keystone, however all the projects seems to have implemented their own ways of doing it right?03:14
Qimingsudipto, check this: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/284454/03:14
sudiptoQiming, sigh. I was involved in this effort :)03:15
sudiptosadly i don't think it's going to fly.03:15
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Qimingit is not specific to any individual project ... if openstack doesn't provide quota management, fine, it is a cross-project thing, if there is one, it should be a cross-project solution03:15
sudiptohowever, there's none at the m moment.03:16
Qimingright, cross-project thing is never easy ... sigh03:16
sudiptoand delimiter is not going anywhere either.03:16
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sudiptodelimiter ideally should have been done as a keystone API.03:16
sudiptoHowever, if you want the latest status, i can get back in the next meeting with the same.03:16
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Qiminggreat, don't want to hijack the meeting, :)03:17
sudiptoQiming, :) sure.03:17
eliqiaoSeems we can have a new service to deal with quota for all OpenStack service  :)03:17
Qimingeliqiao, +10003:17
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hongbinOK. Let's advance topic03:17
hongbin#topic Runtimes API design (mkrai)03:18
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hongbinMadhuri is not able to attend today03:18
hongbinHowever, her patches were landed03:18
hongbinThe basic runtime API was implemented03:18
hongbinFor everyone, you could try the runtime API now and feedback are welcome03:18
hongbinJust pull the lastest server and client project03:19
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sudiptoyeah, i have been trying to use it - however i was busy doing customer travels the last entire week. I am trying to build this thing in a docker container  and see how it behaves.03:19
hongbinsudipto: great03:20
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hongbinIdeally, there is a devstack support to set everyone up03:20
eliqiaoI tried yesterday, work well to create a new container03:20
hongbinThat might come later03:20
eliqiaofiled a bug for container naming stuff.03:20
sudiptoeliqiao, great.03:20
eliqiaoand seems need to improve exception handling later, but we can do it evently.03:20
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hongbinOK. any other comments for this topic?03:21
hongbin#topic Nova integration (Namrata)03:21
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eliqiaosudipto: FYI, need to run zun-compute as root or docker user because zun-compute uses unix socket to talk with docker daemon03:21
hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/nova-integration The BP03:21
hongbin#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-containers-nova-integration The etherpad03:21
sudiptoeliqiao, alright, thanks!03:22
hongbinIt looks Mamrata is not here03:22
hongbinHowever, I saw a spec was uploaded03:23
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/354553/03:23
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hongbinI looked thought the spec. It looks more details need to be filled at the implementation session03:24
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hongbinLet's work with Namrata offline in this regards03:25
hongbin#topic Container image store03:25
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hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/glance-integration03:25
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hongbinThis is the BP about a docker image store solution03:25
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hongbinSo far, there is not too much information there03:26
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hongbinThe general idea is to use Glance as contaienr image store03:26
eliqiaocan flwang provide some advanced information from glance?03:27
hongbinThe difficulty is that Glance don't support layer of images so far03:27
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hongbinI and flwang talked to the Glance PTL before03:27
hongbinIt seems it will take a while to land the image layer support in Glance03:28
eliqiaodo we need to hard depend on glance?03:28
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hongbineliqiao: there are alternatives though03:28
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hongbineliqiao: which is using docker registry03:29
hongbineliqiao: The dackback is the multi-tenancy support is week at docker registry03:29
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hongbinA third soluation is to implement a private docker registry API as a service03:30
hongbinMaybe we could brainstorm all the ideas in an etherpad03:30
hongbin#action hongbin creates an etherpad to brainstorm ideas for container image store solution03:31
hongbinAny other comments / remarks ?03:31
hongbinOK. Then, let's start the open discussion03:32
hongbin#topic Open Discussion03:32
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hongbinsudipto: what do you think about the image store solution?03:33
sudiptohongbin, i would think that - we should not invest too much time in dependency resolution for other projects - which in this case is glance. It's easier to go with a private docker registry for starts and build the support around it.03:34
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hongbinsudipto: I see03:34
sudiptobecause, building this support in glance is a different beast all together. It would also depend on that project's maintainership headache - how comfortable they are with this etc.03:35
sudiptoand that would slow down our goals.03:35
hongbinThat is true03:35
hongbinIf it is not done in Glance, it seems we need to implement one?03:35
hongbinand skip Glance?03:36
Wenzhiwe can build our own first03:36
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sudiptoi believe you had a talk with Nikhil?03:36
hongbinYes, I had03:36
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* nikhil lurks03:37
hongbinnikhil: hey03:37
sudiptonikhil, glad to see you?03:37
nikhilha :)03:37
nikhilright back at'ya03:37
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sudiptonikhil, your valuable inputs would help us here :)03:37
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nikhilyou guys planning this for newton?03:38
nikhilor ocata?03:38
hongbinnikhil: there is no specific deadline03:38
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nikhilhongbin: I would definitely love to see the requirements list for you guys03:38
nikhilhongbin: I am not sure atm to advice either way. The depenency mgmt is something that can be handled by glare03:39
hongbinnikhil: you want we list hte requirements here or send it in the ML?03:39
nikhilhongbin: a spec would be nice03:39
hongbinnikhil: ack03:39
nikhil(or a BP if you use that)03:39
hongbinnikhil: Thanks for the guidance :)03:40
sudiptoso nikhil, you basically want us to list down - what we need from the image management project right?03:40
sudipto(just to be sure)03:40
nikhilhongbin: tbh, I wouldn't recommend a separate solution currently .. because there are many cases where it will become difficult. But best to discuss the details of "whys" and "whats"03:41
nikhilsudipto: yeah03:41
sudiptook i should re-visit the task - i was supposed to do with you - around 2 months back :)03:41
hongbinnikhil: get that03:41
nikhilwe can start with an etherpad and then go to spec if that's what you guys prefer03:42
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hongbinOK. Looks like nobody else has other topics to discuss?03:43
hongbinThen, we can end the meeting earlier03:44
hongbinAll, thanks for joining the meeting today03:44
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"03:44
openstackMeeting ended Tue Aug 16 03:44:32 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)03:44
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-08-16-03.00.html03:44
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-08-16-03.00.txt03:44
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-08-16-03.00.log.html03:44
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loquacitiesanyone here for the install guide meeting?06:00
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loquacitieshi ildikov o/06:00
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ildikovhi Lana :)06:01
loquacitiesjust the two of us tonight?06:01
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ildikovit seems or maybe others are just late06:02
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loquacitieswell, let's give it a couple of minutes06:02
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loquacitieshi katomo06:03
loquacities#startmeeting docinstallteam06:04
openstackMeeting started Tue Aug 16 06:04:13 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is loquacities. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.06:04
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.06:04
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: docinstallteam)"06:04
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'docinstallteam'06:04
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loquacitiesok, this'll be quick, i don't really have anything to report06:04
loquacities#topic testing06:04
*** openstack changes topic to "testing (Meeting topic: docinstallteam)"06:04
loquacitiesso i'm planning on kicking this off next week06:04
ildikovI was a bit out from this activity so I thought to catch up on where we are now06:05
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loquacitieswhich means i'll go through the bug list, etc06:05
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loquacitiesildikov: ok, let's go through status on the next agenda item06:05
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loquacitiesany questions/comments on testing first of all?06:06
ildikovloquacities: cool, tnx06:06
ildikovdo we have people to test or how does it usually work?06:06
loquacitiesi admit i'm not properly into release mode yet, but i promise to start next week, once i've gotten some other work out of the way06:06
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loquacitiesildikov: i'll contact the package maintainers, and our cross project liaisons06:07
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loquacitiesi'll also ping the usual suspects ;)06:07
ildikova-ha, ok, sounds good :)06:07
loquacitiesok, let's move on06:07
loquacities#topic Work Items06:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Work Items (Meeting topic: docinstallteam)"06:07
loquacities#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/InstallGuideWorkItems06:07
loquacitiesso, in terms of the project-specific guides, everything is in place06:08
loquacitiesmany projects have their guides up06:08
loquacitieswe just need to review the core services guide, which is smaller than previously06:08
loquacitiesi would like to get a comprehensive list of which projects have guides ready to be published for newton, but i haven't done that thing yet06:09
ildikovIs there any draft published version out already?06:09
ildikovOr it's the next step to compile all these guides into one?06:10
loquacitiesyou can see it on /draft for each project repo06:10
loquacitieswe have the index page up06:10
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katomo#link http://docs.openstack.org/project-install-guide/draft/06:10
loquacitiesit can probably do with another patch to improve it, but that's cosmetic06:10
loquacitiesthanks katomo06:10
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ildikovkatomo: thanks!06:11
ildikovloquacities: sure, I just wanted to see the structure in the sense of how readable that is at this stage06:11
ildikovloquacities: when you start the cosmetics phase that can be a never ending story, so I would not want to force that :)06:12
loquacitiesyeah, that will be ongoing, anyway, so i'm really not worried about it06:12
ildikovloquacities: +106:13
loquacitiesso about the only actual work item outstanding is the testing automation06:13
loquacitiesand i'm not holding my breath ;)06:13
loquacitiesanyway, that's about all i have06:14
loquacitiesany other comments?06:14
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katomonothing from me06:15
loquacitiesi'll take that as a no ;)06:15
loquacitiesok, thanks katomo06:15
loquacitiesthanks for stopping by, both of you :)06:15
ildikovI'm still waking up :)06:15
loquacitiesildikov: lol, i'm about done for the day ;)06:15
ildikovso sorry for my quietness and dumb questions, I'll improve for next time! ;)06:15
loquacitiesheh, it's all good06:15
loquacitiesgo have a coffee!06:16
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"06:16
openstackMeeting ended Tue Aug 16 06:16:07 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)06:16
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docinstallteam/2016/docinstallteam.2016-08-16-06.04.html06:16
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docinstallteam/2016/docinstallteam.2016-08-16-06.04.txt06:16
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docinstallteam/2016/docinstallteam.2016-08-16-06.04.log.html06:16
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ildikovloquacities: I'm on it, thanks :)06:16
katomothanks, loquacities, ildikov06:16
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loquacitiesthanks :)06:16
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ildikovthanks :)06:16
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saggi#startmeeting karbor09:03
openstackMeeting started Tue Aug 16 09:03:45 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is saggi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.09:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.09:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: karbor)"09:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'karbor'09:03
saggiHi everyone09:03
saggi1st karbor meeting09:04
zengchengood morning09:04
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xiangxinyongmorning sir09:04
saggi#topic renaming issues09:04
*** openstack changes topic to "renaming issues (Meeting topic: karbor)"09:04
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saggiI saw that there are already patches for renaming09:05
saggiBut as yuval found out we can't change some stuff until the renaming window09:05
chenyingI will submit a patch of smaug-dashbard for name change today.09:05
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saggithe question is should we change all the import now or later09:05
yuvalWe can start renaming stuff (code, deliverables, etc) but the repistory name will have to wait until the gerrit maintenance window09:06
saggiyuval: can we rename\alias the packages?09:06
saggiThank I think we should rename now09:06
saggiwho agrees?09:06
yuvalI agree09:06
saggiWe don't have a lot of projects depend on us now.09:06
yuvalThe maintenance window could take a few weeks and we are in the middle of the transition09:07
saggiAny import path change will cause them to rename as well09:07
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saggirenaming now ill make it easier for people to depend on karbor09:07
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chenyingonly  rename\alias the packages smaug to karbor?09:09
yuvalbtw, yinwei, zhonghua here?09:09
saggi#startvote Should we rename code now? Yes, No09:09
openstackBegin voting on: Should we rename code now? Valid vote options are Yes, No.09:09
openstackVote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.09:09
yuvalchenying: any reason why not to change?09:10
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saggiconfusing with the repository?09:10
zhonghuahi, sorry for my late coming09:10
saggimaybe the packages can't be changed?09:10
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yuvalsaggi: we should also rename on pypi09:11
chenyingI think we shoudld change code now. I mistake it.09:11
yuval#vote yes09:11
zhonghuasaggi: sorry, I am late, what are we voting for?09:11
yuval#vote Yes09:12
saggi#vote Yes09:12
xiangxinyongguys, so the another meaning of this vote is whether merged this code https://review.openstack.org/#/c/354024/?09:12
chenying#vote yes09:12
saggizhonghua: On whether to change the code now or later09:12
saggiafter the repo change09:12
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zhonghuasaggi: thanks09:13
zhonghua#vote Yes09:13
yuvalplease note that we need to make a small change to project-config to make the fullstack ci work correctly after we change the karbor directory09:13
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saggiI'm ending the vote09:13
openstackVoted on "Should we rename code now?" Results are09:13
openstackYes (4): saggi, chenying, zhonghua, yuval09:13
saggiOK, a lot of patches are going to break so let's fast track these patches09:14
chenyingI am afraid that if the repo have not been changed, the CI may be failed/09:14
yuvalsaggi: I think there are some patches we must pass before09:14
saggiyuval: Which?09:14
xiangxinyongI agree09:15
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yuvalfixes fullstack09:15
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saggiI was close to passing a few minutes ago09:16
chenyingI will rebase the patch of smaug about name change.09:16
yuvalchenying: only fullstack will break, we need to make a slight change to project-config in order to make it work again09:16
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xiangxinyongcould you merge these two patches?09:17
saggiI added the workflow to it09:17
chenyingI submit the patch about name change. I have kept all the unit tests Ok.09:17
xiangxinyongThey are simple, but it is important09:17
saggiThey already had +2 from me09:17
chenyingxiangxinyong: You can wait the patch about name change is merged.09:18
saggiSo I'll give priority to renaming patches.09:18
yuvalchenying: saggi: please wait before you merge the name change. we need to post a fullstack fix to project-config09:19
yuvalalso verify deliverables are ok09:19
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yuvalnot sure we can change setup.cfg as it affects packages and maybe pypi09:20
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yuvalalso we cant change the name of packages. smaug depends on python-smaugclient which requires a a change in requirements project09:21
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saggiyuval: We could just have new packages.09:22
saggithe old packages would still exists but never updated09:22
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saggiprojects that need to upgrade will change the dependency09:22
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yuvalsaggi: IMO smaug cannot depend on python-karborclient unless it is added to openstack/requirements09:23
saggithan we should add it there09:23
chenyingI have comment the python-karborclient in the requirements.txt.09:23
yuvalok, let's continue the technicals after the meeting09:24
saggi#topic How d#topic Dashboard Items Review (xiangxinyong)09:25
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*** openstack changes topic to "How d#topic Dashboard Items Review (xiangxinyong) (Meeting topic: karbor)"09:25
saggi#topic topic Dashboard Items Review (xiangxinyong)09:25
*** openstack changes topic to "topic Dashboard Items Review (xiangxinyong) (Meeting topic: karbor)"09:25
saggi#topic Dashboard Items Review (xiangxinyong)09:25
*** openstack changes topic to "Dashboard Items Review (xiangxinyong) (Meeting topic: karbor)"09:25
xiangxinyongwe could review these dashboard patches, since some vendors are using karbor to develop their plugin.09:25
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xiangxinyongBut it seems like if these patches are merged, chenying will rebase his patch09:25
saggiThey have reviews09:25
xiangxinyongthanks saggi09:25
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yuvalI'll try to get to it09:26
xiangxinyongthanks yuval09:26
saggixiangxinyong: The problem is I'm kind of reluctant to do workflow+1 on the dashboard.09:26
saggiI can do it but I'm not always sure about the order09:27
saggi#topic Support checkpoint scheduled clean (xiangxinyong)09:28
*** openstack changes topic to "Support checkpoint scheduled clean (xiangxinyong) (Meeting topic: karbor)"09:28
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xiangxinyongI have updated this spec.09:28
saggiThe bp is up. It looks OK to me apart from some of the technical details are missing.09:28
saggiWhen will the check happen09:28
xiangxinyongThe scheduled operation is triggered09:29
xiangxinyongI have updated the database struct.09:29
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zhonghuaare we sure to restore the checkpoint into two places?09:29
saggiSo it will check for deletions when it start to backup?09:30
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saggiIf the maximum is changed than it will have to wait until the next tirggering to delete09:30
saggiI'm OK with that09:30
chenyingThe bp now add a database table checkpoint_records. when we create/update checkpoint data in bank. at the same time, create/update the data in datbase.09:30
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xiangxinyongsaggi: yeah09:30
xiangxinyongchenying: +109:31
saggiI'll probably +2 and merge it later today if it doesn't have any objections on it.09:31
saggiI'm still waiting for +2s on my BP09:31
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zhonghuaxiangxiyong: do you consider to config the bank as an optional store place?09:31
xiangxinyongThanks saggi09:31
saggi#topic The new implementation about the 'suspend/resume' operation (zengchen)09:32
*** openstack changes topic to "The new implementation about the 'suspend/resume' operation (zengchen) (Meeting topic: karbor)"09:32
yuvalzhonghua: what do you mean as an optional store place?09:32
zhonghuayuval: let us discuss later09:32
yuvalzhonghua: ok09:32
xiangxinyongzhonghua: ok09:32
zengchensaggi:do you have seen my comments?09:32
saggizengchen: This is what I don't understand. We can now update (in the classic sense) an operation.09:33
saggiWhy do we need this specialized mechanism?09:34
saggiIt's not that bad to send the entire object.09:34
saggiand it keeps the interface as a classic REST API09:34
zengchensaggi:first we have not senario to update the operation except the 'suspend/resume' operation09:35
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saggizengchen: Changing the plan attached09:35
saggichanging the trigger09:36
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zengchensaggi:I mean user can 'suspend/resume' operation by invoking 'update' interface.09:37
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saggiI think we shouldn't have the update interface. Use the regular POST update and send the full object.09:37
zengchensaggi:yes, i aggree with you.09:38
saggiThat just have the suspend\resume us it.09:38
saggiLet's first see if it becomes and issues before adding something specialized for it.09:38
zengchensaggi:if we want to update the operation, we should define the senarioes.09:39
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zengchensaggi:i mean update the operation by different senario.09:40
saggiYou just need to look at the new object and compare it to the new one.09:41
saggi1. If the trigger changed you need to unregister from the old one and register to the new09:41
saggi2. If the plan changed just update it in the DB09:41
saggi3. if the status changed wither remove or add to the trigger.09:41
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zengchensaggi:it is not only update the db, but also update the logic.09:41
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saggiOther fields are only relevant upon triggering09:42
zengchensaggi:i understand you. i will try. but it is not simple.09:43
saggizengchen: Thanks09:43
saggi#topic  New protection plugin I/S implementation (yuvalbr)09:43
*** openstack changes topic to "New protection plugin I/S implementation (yuvalbr) (Meeting topic: karbor)"09:43
saggiI will go over it TODAY!09:43
saggiIt's just so long09:43
saggiand daunting09:44
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yuvalhas anyone else had the chance to look into it?09:44
chenyingI think these patches in smaug wait the patch about name change being merged/09:44
saggichenying: It's a huge patch. It will probably get a bunch of revisions. Review it now but we will push it after the name change.09:45
chenyingIt is terrible for me to rebase the patch.09:45
saggiEveryone please review it. It's important since we need it for things like guest agent support and it's a must for stabilizing the plugin interface.09:45
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saggichenying: We will not push it before the name change. But you can star leaving comments about the content09:46
chenyingsaggi: Ok09:46
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saggiyuval: Anything you would like to add?09:47
yuvalsaggi: bope09:47
saggi#topic open discussion09:47
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*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: karbor)"09:47
saggiAnything else?09:47
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saggiOK than we're done09:49
saggiThanks everyone09:49
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"09:49
openstackMeeting ended Tue Aug 16 09:49:49 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)09:49
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-08-16-09.03.html09:49
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-08-16-09.03.txt09:49
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-08-16-09.03.log.html09:49
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Qiming#startmeeting senlin13:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Aug 16 13:00:32 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.13:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.13:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'senlin'13:00
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QimingI don't have extra items to put into the agenda13:01
Qimingif you have got one or two, please update it here:13:01
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Qimingevening everyone13:01
Qiming#topic newton work items13:02
*** openstack changes topic to "newton work items (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:02
Qiming#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-newton-workitems13:02
Qiminglet's start with the etherpad, as usuall13:02
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yanyanhi, about rally support13:03
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yanyanI'm working on context for senlin resources, like profile or cluster per roman's suggestion13:03
yanyanprofile context patch has been proposed and roman has left some comments there13:04
yanyanwill keep working on it in coming week13:04
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yanyanafter that, will be cluster context which will be useful for test case like cluster scaling, resizing13:04
Qimingany plan on how many test cases we want to land in rally?13:04
yanyancurrently, I plan for cluster creating, resizing, scaling, deleting, node creating, deleting13:05
yanyanand also lb policy related ones13:05
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yanyansince those operations could have concurrent issue13:05
Qimingis lb related test cases relevant to performance?13:06
yanyanem, actually it's more about lbaas's performance I feel13:06
Qimingexactly, I'm a little bit concerned about lbaas/octavia's stability13:06
yanyanbut since there is still chance senlin's problem to cause concurrency issue, maybe we need related test case13:07
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yanyanQiming, yes, that could be a problem13:07
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Qimingif it is not stable, then we are propagating that problem into rally13:07
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Qimingit seems to me rally gate is already fragile13:07
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yanyanQiming, yes. But use can also make test locally using those test scenarios13:08
Qimingrally is for performance test, maybe we can use tempest for concurrency tests?13:08
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yanyanwill could be more practical13:08
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yanyanQiming, yes, sorry my expression is not accurate13:08
Qimingthat makes some more senses to me13:08
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yanyanso, that is my current plan13:08
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Qimingsorry I haven't got cycles to spit on that patch 34665613:09
yanyanwill also listen to users' voice, like voice from cmcc guys :)13:09
yanyanQiming, no problem13:09
yanyanit is now blocked for context support13:09
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yanyanwill revise it later after profile/cluster context is ready13:09
Qimingokay, that is a technical problem, can fixed eventually when we work harder on it13:10
Qimingnot so worried about it13:10
Qimingnext thing is integration test13:10
yanyanyes, it still doesn't work correctly...13:10
yanyanneed further fix13:10
QimingI haven't checked any integration test log recently, because they are not voting, ;)13:11
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yanyanI have proposed the patch13:11
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yanyanQiming, it is ok I think13:11
yanyanwe can make it vote after it works correctly13:11
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yanyanalso add zaqar support in this patch for coming test for message support13:12
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Qimingmoving on13:13
Qiminghealth management13:13
QimingI'm working on fixing the health manager13:13
Qimingthis one is critical: https://review.openstack.org/35574313:13
Qimingand it is the reason why sometimes I cannot get any nova notifications from listeners13:14
Qimingthis one is an optimization: https://review.openstack.org/35575113:14
Qimingit is about postponing hm initialization after service table cleansing13:15
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Qimingthe latest one is this: https://review.openstack.org/35579013:15
yanyanso the dead service blocks those notifications13:15
Qimingit is about dynamically disable/enable listening to a specific cluster13:15
Qimingyes, dead service may still have db records left13:16
yanyanI see13:16
yanyanyes, those service will be cleaned when new service is initialized13:16
Qimingwhen hm is trying to pick a cluster for listening, it will skip all those have a service record in db13:16
Qimingyes, any new engine restart will cleanse the table13:16
yanyanI see13:17
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Qimingdynamical enabling/disabling is useful when we want to fully support health policy (thus a HA usage scenario)13:17
Qimingwhen I'm doing a cluster-scale-in13:17
Qimingsome nodes are supposed to be deleted from the cluster13:18
yanyansure, it is very useful I think13:18
Qimingand those nodes (assuming they are nova servers) will generate notifications when they are killed13:18
Qimingthe health policy has to know that these events are generated intentionally13:18
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Qimingso ... eventually, the health policy may have to get itself hooked into those actions that are shrinking a cluster13:19
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Qimingbefore such actions happen, it will dynamically disable itself, and after such actions are completed, it dynamically restore health maintenance13:20
yanyanyes, so health policy should take effect when this kind of operations is performed13:20
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Qimingor else, you will get a cluster with nodes you cannot delete13:20
Qimingit is always recovered by the health policy13:21
yanyanor hm ignores those events?13:21
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Qiminghm "suspends" itself when those actions are performed and resumes after those actions are completed13:21
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yanyanQiming, yes. Just in case node failure happens during cluster scaling, those failure event will be omitted13:22
Qimingdue to the fact we have at least two types of "checkers", it is hard to inject these info directly into the checkers13:23
yanyanI mean those "unexpected" failure events13:23
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Qimingem ... health policy is not designed to handel senlin action failures13:23
yanyancheckers, you mean?13:23
Qimingone checker is the poller (for vm status), anther type of checker is event queue listener13:24
yanyanQiming, sorry, I didn't express clearly. I mean nova server is down during cluster scaling13:24
Qimingmaybe in future we can add a 'pinger' ...13:24
yanyanand that down is expected to be caught by hm13:24
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yanyanQiming, I see13:25
Qiminghm has to know whether a vm is down due to request, or due to exceptions/errors13:25
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Qimingit should do recovery only for the later cases, but it is currently receiving all VM down events13:25
yanyanQiming, yes, unless we have a "list" of VMs need to monitor13:26
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Qimingeven with that13:26
Qimingwhen you are getting an event about VM1 being shutdown13:27
Qimingthat cluster is already monitored13:27
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Qiminghow would you follow up?13:27
Qimingthe key is that hm should be able to deduce the reason behind vm "failure"13:28
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yanyanhmm, so the monitoring may be done with node granularity?13:28
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Qimingthe events are per-node (vm)13:28
Qimingyou got to filter them13:28
yanyanfiltering is needed13:28
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Qimingit is not about whether you CAN get a vm notification13:29
Qimingit is about WHAT you should do after got such a notification13:29
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yanyanI see. You mean hm collects all events, then decide which of them should be reacted13:30
Qimingso the easier path to attack this is we suspend health check during cluster shrinkage13:30
Qiminghm cannot be that smarter13:30
Qimingit is a separate rpc server, ...13:30
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yanyangot it13:31
Qimingit needs too many information to make a call13:31
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Qimingso the flow would be something like this13:31
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Qimingscale_in request -> scale-in action -> cluster locked -> hm disable itself (if enabled) -> scale in -> hm reenable itself -> cluster unlocked -> action complete13:32
yanyanQiming, sounds reasonable13:33
QimingVM failures during action execution cannot be handled, it is a pity13:33
yanyanjust one thing may need attention, that the hm could be disabled for a long while if scaling action hangs for some reasons13:34
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yanyanQiming, yes13:34
Qiminganyway, that is the current design, will continue try things up and see if the loop can be closed soon13:34
yanyanlooks great13:35
Qimingyes, during that period, you are not supposed to enable health recovery13:35
Qimingcluster status is in transition13:35
Qimingwe have got some fencing code proposed, please help review13:36
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Qimingand xinhui is pushing more to gerrit13:36
yanyanyes, will check it13:36
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elynnwill check it later13:36
Qimingprofile/policy version control, again, sorry, didn't got time to look into it13:37
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yanyanno problem :)13:37
Qimingcontainer profile fixes ...13:37
yanyanit's not that urgent13:37
Qimingmostly looks okay13:38
Qimingsdk side blocked13:38
yanyanyes, have posted patch to add claim support13:38
Qimingboth patches look good now13:39
yanyanbut need to add test case13:39
Qimingjust need another +213:39
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Qimingevents/notifications .... I am not aware of any activities therein13:39
yanyanyes, after this support is done, will try to work on message based receiver13:39
Qimingso, that's the etherpad13:39
yanyanQiming, another thing want to mention is senlinclient is broken for latest sdk change I think...13:40
yanyanit works correctly with sdk 0.9.213:40
Qiminglast week I was reworking the exception catching logics for profiles, now it's all settled, please test13:40
yanyanbut broken using master13:40
yanyanQiming, sure, saw that huge work :)13:40
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yanyanme and elynn tested this afternonn13:41
Qimingokay, I checked the bouncer ...13:41
yanyanerror just happened at client side13:41
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Qimingclientside has some patches not reviewed13:41
yanyanok, will check them13:42
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Qimingoh, all self approved I think13:42
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Qimingare you using latest cliend with latest sdk?13:42
yanyanboth are latest code13:43
Qimingthe error message?13:43
yanyanI can't remember it, I13:43
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yanyanI'm now using my own laptop :)13:43
yanyansomething like "unexpected header-*** attr"13:43
yanyancan't recall it exactly13:43
yanyanhi, elynn, do you have the log of error?13:44
Qimingthe additional_headers problem could be caused by keystoneauth version13:44
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Qimingin global requirements, it has been bumped to "keystoneauth1>=2.10.0 "13:45
Qimingdon't confuse keystoneauth with keystoneauth113:45
elynnyanyan, no, I'm using another computer now.13:45
Qimingthe latter one is the correct package13:45
yanyanelynn, I see. thanks13:45
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yanyanso any fix we need to apply on client?13:46
Qimingcheck this: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/343992/6/openstack/session.py13:46
Qimingline 96 was using the additional_headers parameter added to latest version of keystoneauth113:47
Qimingthat is the way we pass the additional header "openstack-api-version: clustering 1.2" to server13:47
Qimingthus we are getting cluster-collect operation work properly13:48
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Qimingif you are seeing errors about set_api_version, that means you sdk version is too old13:48
yanyanhmm, that is weird13:48
yanyanwill test it again tomorrow13:49
Qimingit is also added in this patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/343992/6/openstack/profile.py13:49
yanyanI have cleaned my sdk installation and reinstalled it13:49
Qimingsenlinclient now will automatically add a 'clustering 1.2' header value to indicate it knows the cluster-collect call13:49
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yanyanI see. Will have a try tomorrow13:50
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Qiminganything else?13:52
yanyanno from me13:52
Qimingguoshan, thanks for joining13:52
Qimingare you based in China?13:52
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yanyanguoshan, welcome :)13:53
QimingI see, so it is 21:53 for you too13:53
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yanyanmaybe some self introduction?13:53
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QimingI'm not single, but always available, period.13:53
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guoshanI work in Awcloud, base in wuhan. New comer in senlin.13:55
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guoshanAnd I am single and available :)13:56
yanyanwelcome, any question, plz feel free to ping us in senlin channel :)13:56
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elynnhaha, welcome guoshan13:56
Qiming4 mins left13:56
elynnbtw, I'm working on profile/policy validation, please help to review those patches if you have time.13:57
yanyanelynn, sure, great work13:57
yanyanvery glad you have time to work on it recently :)13:58
Qimingthanks, elynn13:58
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elynnFinally I got some spare time.13:58
elynnnp Qiming13:58
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Qimingif you don't have other things to talk, we can release the channel now13:59
Qimingthanks for joining13:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"13:59
yanyanthanks, have good night13:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue Aug 16 13:59:45 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)13:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-08-16-13.00.html13:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-08-16-13.00.txt13:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-08-16-13.00.log.html13:59
elynngood night13:59
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carl_baldwinAnyone around?15:01
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mlavalledasm: are you in Cork?15:02
dasmmlavalle: yes15:02
dasmClarion Hotel15:02
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mlavalledasm: lol, me too. Seaeting at the lobby15:02
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dasmhmmm. i dont see anyone with opened laptop, besides me.15:03
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dasmmlavalle: because i'm also in lobby :P15:03
mlavalledasm: I am the handsome guy with Lenovo laptop15:04
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carl_baldwinShould we have a short meeting for routed networks?15:04
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carl_baldwinI'll be at the Clarion later tonight. Not sure exactly what time but probably not before 9pm.15:06
carl_baldwinmlavalle: dasm: ^15:06
carl_baldwinSo, I'll probably just see you folks in the morning.15:06
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dasmmlavalle: i was looking just for poor-looking guys L15:06
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dasmcarl_baldwin: ok. so you won't join us for a dinner15:06
carl_baldwindasm: Unfortunately not. :( I wanted to use today to drop in on HPE's Galway office.15:07
dasmcarl_baldwin: :/ ok. see you tomorrow.15:08
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mlavallecarl_baldwin: so dasm now knows what "good looking' guy means ;-)15:11
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carl_baldwinmlavalle: lol15:12
dasmcarl_baldwin: i don't agree with mlavalle :P15:13
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carl_baldwindasm: mlavalle: Glad you found each other. We can have a beauty contest later in the week when every one has arrived.15:14
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anteayacarl_baldwin: will you be entering?15:54
carl_baldwinanteaya: definitely not15:54
anteayaoh shame15:54
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sridhar_ram#startmeeting tacker16:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Aug 16 16:00:35 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is sridhar_ram. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.16:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tacker'16:00
sridhar_ram#topic Roll Call16:00
*** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:00
manikanta_tadiHi All16:00
sridhar_ramhi folks!16:00
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tung_doanhi all16:01
luleihi All16:01
n_haradaHi, I'm new to Tacker and this is my first time to join weekly meeting.16:01
s3wongn_harada: welcome16:01
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sridhar_ramlulei: tung_doan: vishwanathj: s3wong: tbh: manikanta_tadi: n_harada: neel: Good morning, afternoon, evening.. late night, for some of you ;)16:02
sridhar_ramn_harada: welcome to the team!16:02
sridhar_ram#chair s3wong sripriya16:02
openstackCurrent chairs: s3wong sridhar_ram sripriya16:02
sridhar_ramI'm in a flaky n/w situation, chairs .. please continue to run the meeting if i disconnect16:02
luleisridhar_ram: you too :)16:03
sridhar_ramlet's start..16:03
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sridhar_ram#topic Agenda16:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:03
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sridhar_ram#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Tacker#Meeting_Aug_16th.2C_201616:03
sridhar_ramanything else beyond this?16:03
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sridhar_ram#topic Annoucements16:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Annoucements (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:04
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sridhar_ramTacker Client release deadline is Aug 26th..16:04
sridhar_ram.. approaching fast16:04
sridhar_ram#link http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/to?iso=20160826T11&p0=283&msg=Tacker+Client+Release&font=slab16:05
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sridhar_ramjust 10 calendar days left..16:05
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sridhar_ramno API change can happen after this deadline16:05
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sridhar_ramas we get close to the openstack release window, expect longer than normal gate jobs wait times..16:06
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sridhar_ramso, please accordingly.. sometime i've noticed jenkins / dsvm jobs takes 4 - 5 hours :(16:07
sridhar_ramhere are some tips .. to both handle it and being a good citizen16:07
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sridhar_ram1) avoid spurious rechecks ..16:07
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sridhar_ram.. as much as possible use local "tox" runs to verify before pushing16:08
sridhar_ram.. meaning, don't use OpenStack CI resources in-lieu of local tox verifications16:08
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sridhar_ramnext, an heads up..16:09
sridhar_ram#info OpenStack Summit Travel support program16:09
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sridhar_ram#link https://www.openstack.org/summit/barcelona-2016/travel-support/16:09
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sridhar_ramPTLs (and core-reviewers) have a vote (a strong +3 vote!) in the decision making process...16:09
santoshksridhar_ram, quick tip while running tests locally..16:09
sridhar_ram… particularly if they think a contributor’s presence in the design summit will add lot of value to the project.16:09
sridhar_ramSo, if you’ve applied for barcelona summit travel support program, please PM me.16:10
sridhar_ramThanks saju_m for bringing this to our attention.16:10
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santoshkincrease defaults for number of vms and neutron ports in /etc/neutron/neutron.conf (restart neutron) before running16:10
sridhar_ramsantoshk: sure, pls share the tip16:10
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sridhar_ramsantoshk: for running tox -e functional ?16:11
santoshksridhar_ram, yes sridhar...as system defaults are less16:11
sridhar_ramsantoshk: thanks!16:11
sridhar_ramany questions on these announcements ?16:12
sridhar_rammoving on..16:12
sridhar_ram#topic Newton Release Status16:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Newton Release Status (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:12
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sridhar_ramPlease use the release priority etherpad to prioritize your reviews and patchsets..16:13
sridhar_ram#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/tacker-newton-release-priority16:13
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sridhar_ramthanks tbh manikanta_tadi for taking things and knocking them off16:13
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sridhar_ramplease consider picking few things off, including reviews...16:14
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sridhar_ramn_harada: ^^^16:14
sridhar_ramdoes anyone have a blocking newton issue ?16:15
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sridhar_ramdoes anyone have a client patchset that needs to go into newton, but lacking reviewers ?16:15
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sridhar_ramlulei: which one ?16:17
diga__sridhar_ram: VNFFG review is pending from my side, i will review it today.16:17
luleisridhar_ram:I have committed a pacth for bp(tacker openstackclient plugin). Here is the bp links:https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tacker/+spec/tacker-openstackclient-plugin.16:17
sridhar_ramdiga__: thanks, that would help16:17
manikanta_tadisridhar_ram : should we also consider docs patchsets related to client ?16:17
luleisridhar_ram:And here is the pacth:https://review.openstack.org/#/c/348124/. Can u review it?16:18
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diga__sridhar_ram: sure16:18
sridhar_ramlulei: is this feature complete ?16:18
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luleisridhar_ram: yes, Cause I have started the next working is to map tacker commands to openstack commands, and I think I can finished this bp in Newton version. Thanks:)16:19
sridhar_ramlulei: meaning, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/348124/ is all required for OSC support ?16:19
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vishwanathjClient patchset for audit support needs to be added to that list as well https://review.openstack.org/#/c/349722/16:19
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sridhar_ramlulei: i doubt we will have time to finish the reviews by next Friday (Aug 26th)16:19
luleisridhar_ram: ok16:20
sridhar_ramlulei: okay, getting reviewers time is the problem.. we can try, but no guarantees as we have other higher priority items16:20
luleisridhar_ram: It's OK. Thanks :D16:21
sridhar_rammanikanta_tadi: docs patchsets have time, can come in by Sep 15th16:21
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manikanta_tadisridhar_ram : Ok thanks, Will prioritize accordingly16:22
sridhar_ramvishwanathj: sure, i think multiple reviews had happened, so hopefully we can merge that soon16:22
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sridhar_rami looking for a volunteer for https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-tackerclient/+bug/152424316:22
openstackLaunchpad bug 1524243 in python-tackerclient "infra driver is fixed by python tacker client" [High,New] - Assigned to yong sheng gong (gongysh)16:22
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sridhar_ram... any takes? should be a simple one16:22
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diga__sridhar_ram: I will take it16:23
sridhar_ramdiga__: great, thanks.. please assign it to yourself16:23
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sripriyasridhar_ram: we decided to remove the infra_driver attribute from the api as well right?16:24
sridhar_ramsripriya: yes, thanks for reminding..16:24
sridhar_ramdiga__: fyi, both infra_driver and mgmt_driver attrs in the CLI and API need to be deprecated..16:24
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diga__sridhar_ram: okay16:24
sridhar_ramdiga__: we can use this same bug to do both..16:25
diga__is there any dependancy currently at API side ?16:25
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sridhar_ramdiga__: no, these are unused / hardcoded values .. carry over from our legacy past..16:25
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diga__sridhar_ram: okay, got it16:25
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sridhar_ramdiga__: better to deprecate and remove it after stable/newton gets pulled..16:26
sridhar_ram*deprecate now16:26
tbhsridhar_ram, mgmt_driver too?16:26
diga__sridhar_ram: okay16:26
sridhar_ramtbh: well, the API portion of mgmt_driver..16:26
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sridhar_ramtbh: mgmt_driver shd be purely off the TOSCA template and not controlled by the API16:26
tbhsridhar_ram, got it16:27
sridhar_ramanything else related to newton release ?16:27
sridhar_ram#topic VNFC16:27
*** openstack changes topic to "VNFC (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:27
sridhar_ram#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/339798/16:28
sridhar_ramtbh: manikanta_tadi: please jump..16:28
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tbhsridhar_ram, we have updated the spec providing diff approaches using barbican16:28
manikanta_tadiwe have two options for the VNFC drivers in mind at the moment16:28
manikanta_tadi1.Heat software deployment and ssh driver16:29
* redrobot pokes head in at the mention of barbican16:30
manikanta_tadifor ssh driver, we would like to leverage barbican, by storing keys as the secret payload16:30
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tbhif the community can review the spec, it will be more helpful16:31
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sridhar_ramredrobot: fyi, we have an use case to securely execute commands in the workload VMs by an openstack service (tacker)16:31
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sridhar_ramtbh: manikanta_tadi: here is my guidance, particularly given the timeframe we are in (close to the release window)..16:32
sridhar_ram.. which is to pick one of the approaches first and try it..16:33
sridhar_ram.. even that would be squeeze for this release16:33
tbhsridhar_ram, yes we are following the same procedure, but highlighting the different approaches in the spec..16:34
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sridhar_ramtbh: is it fair to say, heat SD will be easier to implement ?16:34
tbhsridhar_ram, but from the coding point of view we are trying out using second approach from the spec16:34
sridhar_ram.. i'm also conscious of making barbican a requirement for tacker..16:34
tbhsridhar_ram, heat SD hardly requires changes in the tacker code base, as it is handled by heat translator16:35
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sridhar_ramtbh: then I'd try to "ship" it first :)16:35
tbhsridhar_ram, yes having new requirement is the major concern at this point of time16:35
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tbhsridhar_ram, sure16:36
sridhar_ramthere is also effort in docs, samples,etc.. so if this is a "low-hanging" feature that we can get out in newton using Heat SD.. i think we shd just focus on it and do it16:36
sridhar_ramagain, just to be clear, is there any CLI or API impact ?16:37
manikanta_tadisridhar_ram : there is no impact on CLI16:37
sridhar_ramnext, is there a TOSCA parser impact ?16:37
manikanta_tadisridhar_ram : no impact on TOSCA parser too16:38
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sridhar_ramteam - if the scope is reduced to just do Heat SD based VNFC, are you comfortable approving this, this late in the cycle?16:39
sridhar_ramcores: sripriya s3wong KanagarajM  -^^^16:39
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* sridhar_ram hears crickets16:40
KanagarajMi feel ok based on i put we got now16:41
sridhar_ramtbh: manikanta_tadi: I'd suggest you to update the spec w/ Heat SD only scope.. do capture barbican as possiblty as a follow on16:41
sridhar_ramKanagarajM: thanks for chiming in16:41
manikanta_tadisridhar_ram : yes, sure16:41
sridhar_rammanikanta_tadi: thanks16:42
sridhar_ramtbh: sounds okay to you ?16:42
KanagarajMi believe heat translator already support sd16:43
sripriyasridhar_ram: is that okay if the bp is not implemented even if its approved?16:43
sridhar_ramKanagarajM: thats good to know16:43
sridhar_ramsripriya: yes, we can carry it over to the next dev cycle (Ocata)16:43
tbhsridhar_ram, but we can mention all possible approaches too, right?16:43
sripriyasridhar_ram: okay cool16:44
sridhar_ramtbh: yes, but for the implementation let's be specific and mention only Heat SD based VNFC will be supported16:44
tbhsridhar_ram, yeah sure16:44
sridhar_rammany folks, outside openstack, like in OPNFV read our specs..16:45
sridhar_ram#link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/tacker-specs/16:45
sridhar_rammoving on..16:45
sridhar_ramsorry, before that.. anything else on VNFC ?16:45
sridhar_ram#topic NSD16:46
*** openstack changes topic to "NSD (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:46
tbhsridhar_ram, that's all from my side, thanks for taking this topic!16:46
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sridhar_ramtbh: sure16:46
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sridhar_ramdkushwaha: are you here ?16:47
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tbhsridhar_ram, I think he is not around16:47
sridhar_ramtbh: just pinged him in the #tacker channel16:47
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sridhar_ramjust to be clear, this feature is clearly post-Newton..16:48
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sridhar_ramI'm going to mark the BP target as Ocata..16:48
sridhar_ramalready started doing that for some BPs..16:48
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sridhar_ramthe big architectural question, is whether to start design this with mistral from get go and iterate16:49
tbhsridhar_ram, yes as we have changes in client too16:49
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sridhar_ramtbh: of course, you are the co-author..16:50
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sridhar_ramteam - anyone have a position on this mistral or no-mistral ?16:51
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sridhar_ramplease readup on mistral and provide your inputs in the spec16:51
sridhar_ram#link https://review.openstack.org/30466716:51
diga__sridhar_ram: will do it16:52
sridhar_ramtbh: btw, can you review the tacker-mistral workflows from Shaik ? https://review.openstack.org/34116416:52
sridhar_ramdiga__: thanks!16:52
sridhar_ramanything else on NSD ?16:52
tbhsridhar_ram, sure will do16:52
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sridhar_rammoving on..16:53
sridhar_ram#topic Open Discussion16:53
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:53
sridhar_ramanything else?16:53
sridhar_ramalright.. then wrap this for today16:54
sridhar_ramthanks everyone for attending..16:54
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"16:54
openstackMeeting ended Tue Aug 16 16:54:49 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)16:54
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openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-08-16-16.00.html16:54
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-08-16-16.00.txt16:54
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-08-16-16.00.log.html16:54
KanagarajMbye. have good time16:55
sridhar_ramtung_doan: hi, can u please join us in #tacker channel for few mins ?16:55
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stevemarajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, crinkle, claudiub, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, gagehugo, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, jaugustine, joesavak, jorge_munoz, knikolla, lbragstad, MaxPC, morgan, nkinder, notmorgan, raildo, rodrigods, rderose, roxanaghe, samleon, samueldmq, shaleh, stevemar, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong, xek17:59
stevemarping for meeting!17:59
gagehugohey hey17:59
jaugustineYo yo18:00
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knikollao/ hi everyone!18:00
stevemarhowdy partners18:00
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henrynashbonsoir, mes amis18:00
samueldmqhi all18:00
stevemarhenrynash: your french accent is so elegant18:01
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stevemarmuch better than your english one18:01
samueldmqstevemar: lol18:01
stevemar#startmeeting keystone18:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Aug 16 18:01:16 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is stevemar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:01
henrynashit's the beret & onions that do it18:01
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stevemaralright keystoners, let's get ready!18:01
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stevemar(un)fortunately, no one added anything to the meeting agenda :O18:01
stevemar#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting18:01
shalehyay short meeting18:01
henrynashstevemar: don't tempt us18:02
stevemarshort topics, just status, bugs, and then open discussion18:02
dstaneki showed up for no reason?18:02
stevemardstanek: tiny reasons18:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:03
dstaneki have a goal to get a few patches up to address some of the caching issue18:03
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stevemar#topic release status18:03
*** openstack changes topic to "release status (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:03
stevemarthe following blueprints are not yet complete: https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/newton-318:03
stevemarbut are in pretty darn good shape18:03
stevemarPCI is a few hours away from being done18:04
stevemarldap preprocess is pretty close18:04
stevemarrolling upgrades is chugging along18:04
stevemarand lbragstad picked up credential encryption (thanks!)18:04
ayoungWow, my name does not even appear on that page.  Tripleo has taken over my life18:04
stevemarayoung: you're forever with us in spirit18:04
henrynashrolling upgrades is good shape (one final issue to settle on, but time to make teh chanegs which ever way we go is only an hour)18:04
dstanekhenrynash: nice!18:05
ayoungI'll be back...18:05
dolphmstevemar: quick, create a high priority blueprint and assign it to ayoung18:05
rderosehenrynash: ++18:05
bknudsonayoung: I've been really impressed with your work in triple-o. This kind of cross-project work helps us do better.18:05
ayoungbknudson, thanks18:05
henrynashbknudson: ++18:05
stevemardolphm: can it be to say things from terminator movies?18:05
ayoungI was able to get the Policy deployment to work the way I want it to in Tripleo18:05
topoldolphm we could give him some music to transpose18:05
dolphmstevemar: that seems actionable enough for a bp18:06
stevemara compliment of the highest order from bknudson!18:06
dolphmstevemar: ++18:06
dolphmbknudson: ++18:06
stevemarfor real dates:18:06
stevemarNext week (Aug 22) is the last release of keystoneauth and keystonemiddleware18:06
stevemarNext Next week (Aug 29) is the last release of keystoneclient and newton-3 driver / keystone feature freeze!  (it's actually mid-week -- Sept 1)18:07
stevemarso the blueprints and bugs should ideally be completed *before* the 29th, or have a +2 and very close18:07
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dolphmbut if it's not gating by august 29, it probably won't make it18:07
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dolphmbecause the gate queue will explode in length18:07
stevemardolphm: bingo18:07
lbragstadso - monday it is18:07
stevemardolphm: i was just gonna say...18:08
stevemarlbragstad: basically18:08
dolphmlbragstad: ergo, aim for EoD Friday18:08
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lbragstadfriday it is18:08
lbragstad... so tomorrow? right?!18:08
stevemarlbragstad: 1 more week :)18:08
dolphmtransient error rates will also sky rocket, so that gives us a couple days to recheck things18:08
stevemardolphm: yeeeep18:08
stevemardolphm: have you been through this before? i feel like you have18:09
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* topol this release will be different. I keep telling myself... re transient errors :-)18:09
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* dolphm is going on my 11th release18:09
stevemarblueprints aside, we have a few nasty bugs18:09
samueldmqdolphm: nice!18:09
stevemar#topic bugs18:09
*** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:09
ayoungdolphm, that can't be right...this is *my* 11th, and you were there before me, no?18:10
stevemarthe biggest of which is the caching issues we've been seeing: caching woes: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/160039418:10
openstackLaunchpad bug 1600394 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "memcache raising "too many values to unpack"" [Critical,Confirmed] - Assigned to David Stanek (dstanek)18:10
dolphmi started immediately after the cactus release18:10
dolphmayoung: so, diablo was my first18:10
stevemardstanek has been heads down on this stuff18:10
dstanekstevemar: i'm going to tackle that one after the current cache bugs i'm working on18:10
stevemardolphm & ayoung the camp fire is over at -dev :)18:10
ayoungAh....I think technically Essex was mine...18:11
lbragstadthanks dstanek!18:11
dstanekthat one is very mystical though18:11
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bknudsonI thought this might be due to a collision from the sha-1 hash.18:11
stevemardstanek: do what you can, let us know when it's ready for review, and most importantly -- if you need elp18:11
bknudsonbut now I don't know.18:11
dstaneki have found that we had a few tests that worked only because revocation list caching was messed up18:12
bknudsonmaybe it's a threading issue?18:12
henrynashI think https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1604479 will be a Not A Bug18:12
openstackLaunchpad bug 1604479 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "tenantId/default_project_id missing on Keystone service user in Mitaka" [Critical,In progress] - Assigned to Kam Nasim (knasim-wrs)18:12
stevemarhenrynash: why do you say that?18:12
bknudsonfor some reason we're using the memcached pool and there's no need for it since we got rid of eventlet.18:12
dstanekafter this meeting i have to figure out why this tests raises two different exceptions http://paste.ubuntu.com/23062173/18:13
henrynashstevemar: from everything I can see... it is simply that the puppet module was assuming v2 fucntinality for teh v3 create user API18:13
stevemarhenrynash: that would be good news18:13
stevemarhenrynash: i was going to take a second look at that one today, if we can bounce it back, that would be great18:13
henrynashstevemar: there were assuming a user with a default project would be granted a role on that project (which we don't do in v3)18:14
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stevemarhenrynash: okay, comment as such in the bug and review, i'll catch up18:14
stevemaron that list in the agenda we also have https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/159216918:14
openstackLaunchpad bug 1592169 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) newton "cached tokens break Liberty to Mitaka upgrade" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Colleen Murphy (krinkle)18:14
henrynashstevemar: already done so18:14
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stevemarbut crinkle has a fix up and mfisch volunteered to verify it (since he is the originator too)18:15
stevemarthanks again crinkle :)18:15
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samueldmqstevemar: crinkle: it's also a flag for reviewers18:15
samueldmqI particularly had never hit that issue before18:15
samueldmqbut it's interesting18:16
stevemarlast on the list is  https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystoneauth/+bug/1613498 -- jamie had a long chat with the bug originator last night and i think it's a no-op, but if you're interested, please weigh in18:16
openstackLaunchpad bug 1613498 in python-openstackclient "Token Auth does not work (not fetching catalog)" [Undecided,New]18:16
dstanekdid the token format change at all?18:16
bknudsonNot sure how we could have testing for these kinds of issues in general. Seems pretty much impossible.18:16
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bknudsonmaybe the best thing to do is to say to wipe out your memcache on upgrade18:17
dolphmdstanek: something could be passing ?nocatalog in the token request18:17
stevemarbknudson: the upgrade ones are definitely tricky18:17
ayoungjamielennox not here...hmmm18:17
bknudsonwhen we do remember to put the code in to handle the case it's ugly.18:17
stevemarbknudson: that is what dolphm recommended too18:18
bknudsonmaybe have a version in the cache lines18:18
dolphmbknudson: buuut.... when do you restart memcached when it's shared by multiple nodes that are undergoing a rolling upgrade?18:18
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bknudsonyikes, that's scarier. versioning would be safer.18:18
dstanekdolphm: turn it off during an upgrade?18:18
ayoungthat sounds like a spectacularly bad idea.18:18
dstanekayoung: which one?18:19
dolphmayoung: well, it would workaround the issue at least18:19
ayoungcache shared across nodes...is not something that makes me feel good18:19
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dstanekthat's the whole point of memcached though18:19
dolphmayoung: it's the best way to take full advantage of your memory footprint18:19
ayoungdstanek, it violates the whole reason to use a Transactional database18:19
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dolphmayoung: ? memcached is neither transactional nor a database18:20
knikollait's more of a kvs18:20
ayoungdolphm, exactly.  SQL is18:20
ayoungand memcache violates pretty much any transaction benefit18:20
stevemar#topic open discussion18:20
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:20
dolphmi'm not following18:20
ayounganyway...I'm derailing18:21
stevemarayoung: for once, i don't mind your derailing :)18:21
ayoungIt seems to me that Keystone first off has to be accurate18:21
dolphmayoung: are you saying that things can be written to memcache before a larger transaction is complete?18:21
ayoungand we do a lot of caching in the interest of scalability18:21
ayoungand I wonder if we are being pennywise and pound foolish here18:21
stevemarit's open discussion now, folks can drop off if they want, or ping me if they have topics they want to chat about18:22
stevemaror propose it to the etherpad, i have it open18:22
ayoungwe also have issues with Galera.  I wonder if all the errors add up to ...well, something nasty18:22
dolphmstevemar: something something rolling upgrades18:22
henrynashdolphm: ha!18:22
raildostevemar, should we get it touch with the TC to remove the support on v2 on Otaca release? :)18:22
bknudsoncaching is disabled by default18:22
dstanekayoung: i would partially agree since our caching is broken in a few ways18:22
dstanekbut it can be good and safe. my goal is to make that happen18:23
stevemarraildo: IIRC we deprecated v2 in M, and we said we would have it around for 4 releases, so not yet :)18:23
stevemarraildo: i think the deprecation message says the Q release18:23
dstanekwe only cache data that is already in the DB so the acid guarantees are still there18:23
bknudsondstanek: some people might have a different definition of safe.18:23
shalehbknudson: yes, but anyone with more than a few users enables caching so that is kind of a useless statement18:23
raildostevemar, hum... got it :)18:23
raildostevemar, yes18:23
henrynashdolphm: (as per the comment I've added on the patch, if the weight of opinion of reviews is to go for 3 new repos, I'll have teh changes done and up by tonight)18:23
stevemar#topic something something rolling upgrades18:24
*** openstack changes topic to "something something rolling upgrades (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:24
dstanekbknudson: you could always keep it off18:24
stevemardolphm henrynash rderose is there any impact in renaming the old repo?18:24
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dolphmstevemar: yes and no? renaming it won't break anything in and of itself18:25
dolphmstevemar: but there's no reason to18:25
ayoungdstanek, dolphm I do suspect this is why people go no-sql. We've essentially converted Keystone into a large, distributed, eventually-consistent store18:25
ayoungbknudson, I took a course with Brewer18:26
henrynashI can't think of a technical issue, I think it is more conceptual cleanness vs keep doing what we've been doing (for Newton) for the "expand" cycle18:26
dolphmstevemar: and more importantly, repurposing the old repo to be the new expand repo prevents the 3 repos we're going to go forward with from having the same migration number at all times18:26
dolphmstevemar: which is something that would be easy to enforce, and would help us prevent deployers from accidentally running migrations out of order18:26
* topol why is bknudson referencing the CAP theorem?18:26
* topol things getting intersting..18:26
ayoungbknudson, that class is one of the reasons I realize just how hard Database stuff can be to get right18:27
bknudsontopol: because ayoung was saying that we could somehow use a consistent database. It can't happen.18:27
henrynashdolphm: you thinking that we would check on, say, a --migrate, that the spand repo was not at a lower nummber?18:27
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topolayoung the answer is eventual consistenc.. always .. except for banks :-)18:27
henrynash(...that the expand repo....)18:27
topolbknudson. agreed. dont go up against the CAP theorem18:28
ayoungtopol, what we've done is doubled our exposuie to its limitations18:28
ayoungfirst at the Galera level, and then again at the memcache level18:28
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topolayoung, uggh. really? How so18:29
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ayoungtopol, SO, Gallera odes "the best it can" to be ACID compliant in a distributed sense18:29
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henrynashdolphm: if so, then I'm sold...since the one thing I liked about the "status based" code I wrote originally was that we stopped deployers doing things out of order18:29
ayoungand if it fails, well, we kindof get notified18:29
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ayoungOTOH, memcache adds an additional layer of "distributed inconsistancy"18:29
dolphmhenrynash: yes, definitely to your question18:30
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dolphmhenrynash: you can also do some other cool stuff like call migrate_repo(expand_version_number)18:30
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dolphmhenrynash: contract_repo(migrate_version_number)18:30
henrynashdolphm, rderose: OK, it's a fair cop (guvs) I'll come quietly (and make the changes today!)18:31
ayoungWe think of distributed memcache as a single system, but it is not, it is multiple nodes, and they are no-where-close to thinking about consistency across them18:31
rderosehenrynash: ++18:31
stevemarhenrynash: ++18:31
stevemarrderose: hey thats my line!18:31
ayoungthey are just supposed to be a cache.  As such, it is "yes I have it" or "no let me get it"18:31
rderosestevemar: I was first18:31
dolphmhenrynash: i feel like you're making some british pop culture reference that just went over my head lol18:31
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ayoungbut if changes are happening behind the cache, such as what we do when we hammer on our tests, memcache does not deal18:32
topoldolphm, I think he has been arrested before18:32
ayounghenrynash, I thought the line was "its a fair court?"18:32
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dolphmayoung: if you're clustering memcache nodes, then there's nothing to keep consistent because you're sharding data across them18:32
dstanekayoung: there is no consistency across memcached nodes by design18:32
ayoungdolphm, right.  dstanek right18:32
dstanekthere isn't and shouldn't be - a give can can only be on a single node ever18:33
henrynashayoung: maybe, blended by folk law...18:33
henrynashstevemar: ++18:33
ayoungdstanek, and *we* kinda get that.  But people outside of Keystone think of it as a single, database backed, transaction system.  Hence revocations18:33
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stevemarayoung: i think the expectation is becoming that keystone scale globally and handle these more difficult scenarios18:34
ayounghenrynash, all these years I've been misinterpreting the dead Bishop sketch18:34
rderosethanks henrynash, that cleared it up18:34
dolphmstevemar: http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/10/10e71fd6edca008ff7ab182e9c428ea756412398815dbeec35f25092e913ed2c.jpg18:34
topoli dont get it18:35
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stevemari think we're all sleep deprived and delirious18:35
stevemarwe need more open discussion? we're just arguing and posting memes at this point?18:35
lbragstadleave it to the LA Kings18:36
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shalehayoung: so we are back to dropping revocations?18:36
henrynashI like to think of us all as sleep deprived and delicious....18:36
rderoselbragstad: that's better than the Fargo???  wait, what teams do you have?18:36
lbragstadrderose ... well played18:37
topolhenrynash I have no idea how offensive this really is18:37
lbragstadrderose we settle for the Minnesota Wild ;)18:37
rderoselbragstad: there you go18:37
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rderosetopol: ++18:38
ayoung"Well, I meet a lot of people and I'm convinced that the vast majority of wrongthinking people are right. "18:38
ayoungshaleh, so, yeah, I think we can drop revocations if we go with the plan jamielennox and I were dreaming up at the midcycle18:38
stevemarand topol is gonna have a talk with HR18:38
ayoungwell, most revocations. Explicit will still be needed18:39
* topol took a risk18:39
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stevemarayoung: i liked that plan FWIW18:39
shalehayoung: if a) works and b) confuses people less that sounds good18:39
ayoungBut if we make tokens short lived...yeah, most go away18:39
ayoungMaybe all18:39
henrynashtopol: :-)18:39
ayoungstevemar, me, too.. Just need the time to work on it18:39
stevemarayoung: like 95+%18:39
stevemarayoung: just ditch tripleo :P18:39
stevemarcome back to us, you know you want to18:39
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henrynashayoung: what;s the path to short lived tokens?18:40
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ayoungstevemar, I do want to, but it turns out that people can't actually use the crap we build if the installer disables it18:40
stevemarhenrynash: 2 options, one complex, one simple18:40
henrynash( and don't say fly to Boston and turn left)18:40
lbragstad`[token] expiration` = 60018:40
dstaneklbragstad: ++18:41
stevemarhenrynash: we re-work it completely and use "reservations" by jamie18:41
ayounghenrynash, bascially, this:  we make tokens live for a really short time as authentication proxies, but honor the data that they represent for the life time of the workflows18:41
stevemarhenrynash: or we yeah, taht ^18:41
ayoungstevemar, lets not call them reservations.  That was a different mechanism, where the user goes to Cinder first, creates a reservation, and passes that to Nova18:41
henrynashayoung: right we discussed that at he midcycle...what's stopping us18:41
stevemarso you have 5 minutes to use a token, but if you used it, it's valid for 24 hours18:42
stevemarayoung: i think i have that right?18:42
ayounghenrynash, time18:42
ayoungI need to get some team priorities done, and it is eating up my time18:42
ayoungstevemar, you are right18:42
lbragstadhenrynash I think we need more ten-digit gnomes to do the neeful18:42
stevemarayoung: i like the solution, it's neat18:42
ayoungand that is OK because we go back to Keystone and expand out the data each time18:42
stevemarlbragstad: someone has their big book of british slang open18:43
stevemardstanek: i like what breton said here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/349704/5 :)18:43
shalehhow do we settle that with the ops request for 4 hour tokens to limit security exposure18:43
stevemarshaleh: the 24 hours part if a config option, could set it to 4 hrs or 118:44
dstanekstevemar: breton: woot! there is a transient failure though :-(18:44
dstaneksoon as we are done here i shall go fix18:44
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stevemaranyway, let's actually end this18:45
stevemarthanks for coming everyone18:45
stevemarthanks dolphm for covering me last week and next week18:45
rderosewell, bye18:45
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"18:45
openstackMeeting ended Tue Aug 16 18:45:36 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:45
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-08-16-18.01.html18:45
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-08-16-18.01.txt18:45
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-08-16-18.01.log.html18:45
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lbragstaddolphm ooo how's that bus feel?!18:46
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dolphmlbragstad: it was quick18:46
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Krenairfungi, pleia2: I have to go and won't be able to attend the infra meeting, but please try to get my puppet patches some review18:55
Krenaireven if it's just the first18:55
fungiKrenair: totally, thanks for the heads up!18:55
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fungiany infra peeps want to crash the meeting channel for an hour?19:00
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* bkero sits down on a comfortable sofa and kicks his feet up onto the table.19:00
fungithis time we have topics courtesy of jeblair, zaro, jpmaxman, Krenair, fungi and rcarrillocruz19:00
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fungi#startmeeting infra19:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Aug 16 19:02:10 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:02
fungi#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting19:02
fungi#topic Announcements19:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)"19:02
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fungi#info Reminder: late-cycle joint Infra/QA get together to be held September 19-21 (CW38) in at SAP offices in Walldorf, DE19:02
fungi#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Sprints/QAInfraNewtonSprint19:02
funginote that there's only room for 30 attendees19:02
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rcarrillocruzi can confirm i'll be attending ^19:03
rcarrillocruzgot approval for travelling19:03
fungiand 22 have already added themselves to that wiki19:03
fungiso... if you're going, put yourself on the list as soon as possible or you'll end up on the waiting list19:03
anteayaor in the hall19:03
fungii don't know if sap has hallways19:03
zaroi will probably drop in for a day19:04
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fungithey could be avant-garde19:04
zarodoes that mean i should put myself on the list?19:04
anteayazaro: yes19:04
anteayafungi: it is possible19:04
fungizaro: yeah, it sounds like they might be pretty strict about the 30 attendees limit19:04
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fungi#topic Actions from last meeting19:05
zaroi don't want to take a seat away from someone else that will be there all week19:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:05
fungi#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-08-09-19.04.html19:05
fungithere were none19:05
anteayazaro: then you might not get a seat if you try to attend, your call19:05
fungi#topic Specs approval19:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)"19:05
fungiwe have nothing new this week19:06
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fungi#topic Priority Efforts: Infra-cloud (rcarrillocruz)19:06
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts: Infra-cloud (rcarrillocruz) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:06
fungisays you have an update?19:06
rcarrillocruzso, it seems we got past all DC and net issues19:06
rcarrillocruzi set up the bifrost controller19:06
rcarrillocruzand spotted few bugs on bifrost since we last used it19:07
rcarrillocruzbut with in place fixes19:07
rcarrillocruzhappy to report i can provision nodes from it19:07
rcarrillocruzi showed up a deploy to pabelanger today19:07
rcarrillocruzi'm more than happy to show how the thing works to whoever is interested19:07
rcarrillocruzand let me know if you want to help out19:07
rcarrillocruzthat it19:07
fungithat's excellent!19:07
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crinkleawesome rcarrillocruz19:08
rcarrillocruzas a matter of fact19:08
rcarrillocruzanother redeploy just in time:19:08
rcarrillocruz"2016-08-16 19:07:42.901 9824 INFO ironic.drivers.modules.agent_base_vendor [req-03204eef-f9d5-4524-b459-91e307d62a8a - - - - -] Deployment to node d1d4232d-91ec-41d9-9f9b-80350ae9f048 done"19:08
clarkbdo we need to revuew changes for puppeting mitaka?19:09
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ianwrcarrillocruz: cool, could you do some sort of "intro to" session in irc/something at a known time, if a few people are interested?  count me as one...19:09
rcarrillocruzi believe crinkle started something  for that?19:09
rcarrillocruzianw: sure, i believe we overlap during my morning for an hour or so19:10
rcarrillocruzmore than happy to do so in a screen session or something19:10
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jeblairrcarrillocruz: if there's no private info, you could do this: http://amo-probos.org/post/1719:10
rcarrillocruzah nice19:11
bkerorcarrillocruz: https://github.com/yudai/gotty is a great tool for pop-up terminal sharing sessions19:11
rcarrillocruzi think it would be fine19:11
bkeroor that19:11
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rcarrillocruzno passwords are shown by default on ansible output19:11
rcarrillocruzmaybe agree a date/time on ML so people can join  ?19:11
crinkleif it's not currently on mitaka then i haven't started anything19:11
crinklelooks like it is mitaka http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/puppet-infracloud/tree/manifests/controller.pp#n2419:12
fungioh, even better19:12
crinkleso nothing to do there for a few more weeks :)19:13
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fungianything else we need to cover on infra-cloud?19:13
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rcarrillocruznothing from me19:14
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fungi#topic Priority Efforts: A Task Tracker for OpenStack (zaro)19:14
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts: A Task Tracker for OpenStack (zaro) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:14
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/347486 Enable gerrit/storyboard integration19:14
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fungizaro: anything specific about this change?19:14
zarolook in commit message of #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/347486/19:14
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zaroit hasn't been enabled yet.  we need to enable it19:14
zaroshould we just enable for all projects?19:15
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fungiwhat's the potential impact? other than letting changes for those projects update sb stories and tasks through commit message lines?19:15
zarobtw, i think that general task tracker effort is Zara19:15
Zarayeah, I'm just watching rn19:16
fungisounds like something we'd just want to enable globally for all repos19:16
zaroi think so19:16
Zara(since my questions are being covered at this very moment :))19:16
fungizaro: i moved your topic into the priority effort slot because it's related to a priority effort19:16
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zarono other impacts i guess19:17
fungiZara didn't mention anything specific on the agenda, so i figured she'd chime in if needed19:17
fungianybody opposed to us enabling storyboard integration for all projects in our gerrit?19:17
Zarayeah, I got the impression an infra core needed to do something to enable it? so I'm just watching atm, but if there's something I should do, please let me know19:17
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fungii'll take this silence as a tacit agreement19:18
fungi#agreed We'll enable Storyboard integration for all projects in our Gerrit19:18
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Zaraso I know what's going on and don't annoy people, who needs to do what to make that happen?19:19
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fungi#action fungi Add [plugin "its-storyboard"] enabled = true to All-Projects config per https://review.openstack.org/34748619:19
Zaraoh haha ace19:19
fungii'll also update our sample config in the system-config docs while i'm at it19:19
Krenairfungi, I'm back earlier than expected, can talk wiki stuff when it comes up19:20
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fungiKrenair: thanks--we will!19:20
Zarafungi: thank you! :)19:20
fungiZara: zaro: anything else on this?19:20
Zaranot from me, yaaaaay I'm so happy! :D19:20
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fungi#topic Priority Efforts: Zuul v3 (jeblair)19:20
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts: Zuul v3 (jeblair) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:20
jeblairfor the nodepool zookeeper work (which i consider on the critical path for zuulv3) we wanted to avoid a feature branch and try to land small stepwise changes.  that's going to be very difficult, and probably not have the intended effect anyway, so i've created a feature/zuulv3 branch of nodepool where we can work on swapping out the builder.19:20
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jeblairi still think we should adhere to the spirit of that, and once we have the zookeeper builder ready, start running it and merge it into master19:21
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fungijeblair: so it's specifically for separate (but related) priority nodepool spec we have?19:21
fungi#link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/nodepool-zookeeper-workers.html Nodepool: Use Zookeeper for Workers19:21
jeblairfungi: yep, i may have misfiled under the agenda :)19:22
fungino worries. close enough19:22
jeblairoff by one19:22
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clarkbwe are going to tag a release prior as well right?19:23
clarkbor did that already happen19:23
jeblairclarkb: already done19:23
fungiwell, we discussed it briefly late last week in #zuul i think, but i'm still in favor now19:23
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jeblair0.3.0 is the 'nodepool before zookeeper' tag19:24
jeblairwe also tagged zuul19:24
fungiclarkb: yeah, some weeks ago we tagged a final pre-zk version for nodepool and made an announcement to downstreams that they might ought to pin to that19:24
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fungizuul was tagged as 2.5 in keeping with it being the culmination of the "v2.5" ansible-launcher work, even though that meant skipping a couple of minor version numbers to get there19:25
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jeblairi also think that we'll be able to switch fairly easily between current nodepool builders and zk when the time comes19:26
jeblair(if something goes awry)19:26
jeblair[that's all i had on the topic]19:27
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fungiokay, so we should expect some transitional period where we may go back and forth between the old and new style builders along with zuul v2(.5)?19:27
jeblairyeah, that's what i'm thinking.19:28
fungiwell in advance of zuul v3 running in production anyway19:28
jeblairthough, hopefully without the back-and-forth.  :)19:28
fungionly forth!19:28
* Shrews expects perfect integration the first time19:28
jeblairyeah, the nodepool zk builders are still pre-zuulv319:28
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jeblairas soon as it's ready we should start using it19:29
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fungianybody have other questions on this?19:29
jeblair(then make sure we like it before we go all in on zk for the nodepool launcher)19:29
* fungi sallies forth to general meeting topics19:29
fungi#topic Gerrit online index testing (zaro)19:30
*** openstack changes topic to "Gerrit online index testing (zaro) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:30
fungizaro: so what's going on with this?19:30
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zaroso just to give everyone background on this topic.19:30
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zaroi am attempting to test the new gerrit online reindex feature on review-dev19:30
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zaroi initially tried to import nova into review-dev so we can get some prod like data to test with19:31
zarobut that really just wasn't working due to how the importer plugin works19:31
zarofungi suggested we just pump changes into review-dev to load up it up for testing, so just fake data19:32
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fungilack of corresponding accounts for change owners/reviewers and whatnot, if memory serves?19:32
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zaroi've done that, so now review-dev has about ~100k changes19:32
anteayazaro: awesome19:32
zarofungi: yes, and plugin had bugs19:32
fungibugs? impossible ;)19:32
zaroand i've tested with just me poking at review-dev while reindexer is runnning19:32
zaroeverything seems good but that's not the test i was after.19:33
zaroi wanted to run online reindex and have multiple users use review-dev while it's running.19:33
anteayahow long does the reindex take with 100k changes?19:33
zarobut problem now is review-dev is low on resources due to much more changes that got pumpped in19:33
zaroanteaya: about 1.5-2hrs19:34
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zaroif we want that better test then we need to up the resources on review-dev19:34
fungiso next suggestion i think was that we could rebuild review-dev on a bigger instance19:34
fungikeep the db/homedir from the old server19:34
zaromore RAM and more disk please!19:35
zaroohh cpu too19:35
anteayahow much more?19:35
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fungiyeah, that's the main question19:35
zaroif i had a list of flavors to pick from that would be great19:35
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fungithey mostly double except after 15 it goes to 3019:36
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fungifor gigabytes of ram19:36
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zaromaybe just half of whatever's on prod would be enough19:36
zaroi think currently it's only got 4gig19:36
fungilooks like current review-dev is a 4gb flavor19:37
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anteayaprod is 30 right?19:37
zarois half of prod asking too much19:37
fungireview.o.o (prod) is 60gb19:37
zaroprod is 60gg19:37
zaroand disk space on review-dev is really low19:37
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anteayaI personally have no objection19:38
anteayait is based on quota, yeah?19:38
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anteayahave we quota available?19:38
fungithough keep in mind we only really bumped production because we thought it would help the java gc memory pressure. instead that seems to just be a leak so no amount of extra ram is going to help19:38
zaroyeah, well aware of that.19:39
fungidisk space doesn't really change on the new flavors, we ought to just move ~gerrit2/review_site into a cinder volume19:39
zaro++ there19:39
fungiwe can make that as big as we want, effectively19:39
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fungi(or at least bigger than we'll need for this purpose)19:39
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fungiokay, so while 30gb is a bit much, perhaps we could rebuild again on a smaller flavor once you're done trying to heavily load-test it?19:40
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fungialso, any infra-core volunteers to launch the new review-dev server and add a cinder volume to it?19:41
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zaroalso i have tested the project change scenario with online reindex and it works like a charm.19:42
zaroproject change/ project name change19:42
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rcarrillocruzfungi: ^19:42
anteayazaro: that is good to know, thank you19:42
ianwfungi: i'm new to it, but can help with maybe some pointers19:42
fungi#action rcarrillocruz launch new 30gb review-dev and add an appropriately sized cinder volume for ~gerrit2/review_site19:43
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fungiianw: maybe you and rcarrillocruz have some overlap time at the end of your day and early on his19:43
fungidefinitely team up. we have stuff pretty heavily documented19:43
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fungianything else for the gerrit online reindex testing?19:44
fungi#topic wiki status update (jpmaxman, Krenair, fungi)19:44
*** openstack changes topic to "wiki status update (jpmaxman, Krenair, fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:44
* Krenair waves19:44
fungithanks to jpmaxman's great testing and instructions, i manually upgraded production wiki.openstack.org in-place to mw 1.27 and ubuntu trusty on friday19:45
anteayathank you19:45
jpmaxman:) how's the spam?19:45
fungiseems to be working well so far. hasn't put a stop to spam but the newer captcha for confirmedit seems to have drastically reduced it19:45
jpmaxmanhaven't checked if it actually worked19:45
fungiwe got several new accounts adding spam pages on saturday, and another one a few hours ago19:46
fungibut previous weeks that would have been an order of magnitude higher19:46
fungisince the upgrade there have been more days with no new spammers than with them19:47
jpmaxmancool - so some spam is still getting through?19:47
fungijpmaxman: yeah, just not nearly as much19:47
Krenairdoes this spam (that still gets through) contain links?19:47
jpmaxmanok well it is a start!19:47
fungisame kind of spam though (phone numbers for scammers claiming to provide software/hardware support)19:47
fungiKrenair: nah, not for the most part19:47
fungiit's phone number spam19:48
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jpmaxmanI mean if it is really a person - I guess there isn't a lot to be done19:48
Krenairyeah we have that on mediawiki.org sometimes19:48
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fungialso curious to try turning file uploads back on and seeing if confirmedit is covering those with the captcha now19:48
anteayastop bots from indexing the wiki19:48
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fungianteaya: that's an option we're still reserving as a possibility19:49
anteayathat is still an option19:49
jpmaxmanyeah I mean ideally you want people to find the content through a google search19:49
anteayaand past experience shows that vitually eliminates the spam19:49
fungithough i'd also like to see if we can give the stopforumspam blacklist extension a shot19:49
anteayathat is fair19:49
fungibasically they track and maintain a live list of ip addresses where they see abusive comments originating from, and the extension refuses to allow page edits from those ip addresses19:50
anteayajpmaxman: what we would really like is for people to find docs.openstack.org and git.openstack.org via search engines19:50
jpmaxmanahh that reminds me19:50
Krenairimagine if wikipedia.org did that anteaya19:50
jpmaxmanThere is an additional configuration option for this module, $wgReCaptchaSendRemoteIP (default: false), which, if set to true, sends the IP address of the current user to a server from Google while verifying the CAPTCHA19:50
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anteayaKrenair: the business model is different19:50
fungijpmaxman: oh, so maybe nocaptcha has some built-in ip address blacklisting too?19:51
jpmaxmanfungi we can try setting that to true - seems similar to stopforumspam blacklist but baked into the nocaptcha19:51
jpmaxmanyeah we just didn't enable it19:51
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fungiworth a try. the risk obviously is we're disclosing ip addresses to a third party, but... we'd be doing that via things like google analytics too19:52
anteayaKrenair: one of our options is not having a wiki19:52
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fungianteaya: Krenair: right. on the spectrum of options we're evaluating, having a wiki that isn't indexed by major search engines might still be a good compromise between having a wiki full of spam or having no wiki at all19:53
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jpmaxmanso next steps - Krenair I still need to go through your commits one thing I brought up with fungi was apache config changes for hosting the site in /srv/mediawiki - I wasn't sure if there was a reason for that - would be able to keep more defautls if it was in /var/www19:53
anteayafungi: right19:53
fungijpmaxman: oh, right, i was still composing an e-mail reply19:53
Krenairjpmaxman, isn't that the existing place puppet puts it?19:53
KrenairI don't think I changed that19:53
fungiwe mostly try to follow the filesystem hierarchy standard and not write non-packaged, static content into /var19:53
jpmaxmanI'm not sure - just on the existing server it is /srv/mediawiki19:54
fungipretty much all our apache vhosts are served out of /srv/something on our servers19:54
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jpmaxmanok - that's fine - just need to consider that for Krenair puppet config19:54
fungiwhich we often (as will also be the case with wiki.o.o) mount from a separate cloud block storage device19:54
jpmaxmanubuntu apache package assumes /var/www and adds some config options to that directory which need to then be applied to the alternate location19:55
KrenairYou're referring to this change jpmaxman? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/352033/1/templates/apache/mediawiki.erb19:55
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jpmaxmansorry Krenair - I'm just talking generally - I apologize I haven't taken a dive into the changes19:55
jpmaxmanif it's already considered then just ignore me :)19:56
KrenairIt's not considered19:56
KrenairIt's not relevant19:56
KrenairThe existing directory puppet uses is under /srv19:56
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KrenairChanging MW and Ubuntu versions doesn't affect that19:56
fungii think the underlying point was that when updating our apache vhost config in production to cope with the apache 2.2 to 2.4 move there were (typical) updates needed to directory allow/grant and options19:57
jpmaxmanok I had to make some changes going 2.2 --> 2.4 - you have one in here -                         Require all granted19:57
jpmaxmanI'll double check if anything else is necessary19:57
jpmaxmanit may not be19:57
fungijpmaxman was suggesting that using /var/www instead of /srv/mediawiki might make that unnecessary, but i'm pretty sure 1. it won't since we still need some pretty specific directory blocks for various mediawiki bits, and 2. we would rather stick with /srv for other reasons i already mentioned19:58
fungijpmaxman: Krenair i have a diff i can link, just a sec, before the meeting ends19:58
jpmaxmanfungi: agreed.  The only reason it is not necessary is ubuntu package for apache puts it in the "upstream" conf for /var/www19:59
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fungi#link http://paste.openstack.org/show/558525 apache vhost diff for 2.2 to 2.4 update19:59
jpmaxmanit's more important I'd think to keep things consistent with your other servers19:59
anteayathanks for the meeting fungi19:59
fungianyway, we're out of time19:59
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fungioh, also before i endmeeting, reminder20:00
zaroI have the verify-status plugin (publishing test metadata to gerrit) on #link if anyone is interested to see how it works.20:00
* amrith waits for the doors to open20:00
Krenairfungi, um.20:00
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:wiki-upgrade+is:open changes for wiki puppetization20:00
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fungithanks for that Krenair!20:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Aug 16 20:00:34 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-08-16-19.02.html20:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-08-16-19.02.txt20:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-08-16-19.02.log.html20:00
Krenairfungi, you put that Require all granted inside the <IfModule mod_expires.c>?20:00
* bkero waves20:00
bkeroThanks everyone.20:00
ttxoyez oyez20:00
Krenairamong other places20:00
fungiKrenair: yeah, we can move to #openstack-infra20:01
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* amrith thanks ttx for unlocking the doors and finds a seat in the back20:01
* amrith waves at ttx20:01
ttxAnyone here for the TC meeting ?20:01
KrenairI have to go now fungi, will be back later20:01
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edleafe~/me tries to find a comfortable seat20:01
ttxannegentle, dhellmann, mtreinish, mordred, thingee : around ?20:01
annegentlefeeling lefthanded20:01
ttxAlright, we have quorum20:01
ttx#startmeeting tc20:02
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openstackMeeting started Tue Aug 16 20:02:04 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"20:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'20:02
ttxHello everyone! Our agenda for today:20:02
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee20:02
ttx(remember to use #info #idea and #link liberally to make for a more readable summary !)20:02
ttx#topic Appoint Dean Troyer as replacement for Morgan20:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Appoint Dean Troyer as replacement for Morgan (Meeting topic: tc)"20:02
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/35463320:02
ttxmestery and myself have approved post-meeting the charter change proposed last week, which merged20:02
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ttxThis change is applying the process described there and appointing Dean in replacement or Morgan20:02
ttxThis has enough votes to pass now, so I'll approve it unless someone screams20:03
russellbdtroyer: thanks for being willing to jump in20:03
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dtroyerrussellb: I am happy to20:03
annegentlethanks dtroyer20:03
ttxWelcome dtroyer, let me flip your ACL approval rights too20:03
ttxdone, you can Rollcall Vote now20:04
dtroyerthank you ttx20:04
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ttxI think I fixed up your -tc ML rights the other day already20:04
dtroyerand everyone20:04
ttx(but shhh)20:04
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ttx#topic Community-wide goals20:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Community-wide goals (Meeting topic: tc)"20:05
ttxWe had another week of discussion around community goals, and I think we need to move now20:05
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/34906820:05
ttxthis one is the general process description20:05
ttxSome wording could still be adjusted, but I think the current version can be merged now and subsequent adjustements be proposed as separate changes20:05
ttxThe only strong opposition was the concern that this would result in "top-down design" (jaypipes, hongbin), but I think we cleared out that this is not the intent of the goals at all20:06
ttxThe other concern (expressed by notmyname, sdague) is that some goals might be so much work that prioritizing them over everything would create conflict with other natural priorities in the team20:06
notmynameif you think working should change, what's the rush on landing it now over getting better wording20:06
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ttxnotmyname: I think wording could be improved. Doesn't mean there would be a majority of members agreeing with that20:06
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annegentleI'd like to see rephrasing as well before landing it. Shows work towards consensus-basis.20:07
dhellmannsomeone needs to propose specific wording changes20:07
ttxbut if we have consensus around another wording now, that's fine too20:07
ttxit's just simpler to judge as a separate patch20:07
annegentledhellmann sorry I hadn't caught the "technical debt" line, was on my phone (hence all the typos previously, bwah)20:07
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ttxI think careful selection of goals can help with that second concern20:08
ttxAlso, Murphy's law states that shit will always happen20:08
ttxif a team finds themselves in an exceptional situation and ends up not being able to complete the goal, it's fine20:08
ttxWe just need to document that exceptional situation for future reference20:08
annegentlettx I'm overall fine with the effort, hence my vote. Still... any chance to revise would be welcomed20:08
dhellmannannegentle : np, I do want to make sure the info is clear20:08
dhellmannannegentle : what would you like to see changed?20:08
annegentledhellmann ok if I review now inline?20:08
annegentledhellmann really just was buying time before meeting to sit at a computer again... it's a crazy pre-kids-back-to-school-week20:09
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ttxI was interested in approving this version and iterating on it since the current patchset has all +1s nicely lined up20:10
johnthetubaguyttx: +1 fix ups being a follow on patch20:10
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ttxthis is a reference document, so it's a living document. Not like a resolution where the wording can't change20:11
annegentlettx hm...20:11
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annegentlettx I guess I can be convinced with that because it offers more long-term flexibility too as we try this out20:11
annegentleplus a spelling error seems like it could be fixed :)20:11
ttxannegentle: that's why it lives in the reference/ directory and not in the resolutions/ one20:11
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dhellmannyeah, spelling errors fall under the trivial fix house rule20:12
sdaguettx: yeh, I think that's a nuance that was missed by me20:12
ttxerr, it actually lives in its own directory20:12
ttxI guess we could add to README.rst that goals are also living documents like reference20:13
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ttxsince README describes the directory structure of the repo20:13
annegentleok, looking at my suggestions they seem to fall under the "can be fixed in future" rewording camp20:13
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annegentledhellmann er, took off my -1 in case it blocks20:14
ttxWe have almost everyone +1ing here so this sounds like a good starting point.20:14
dhellmannannegentle : I replied to your comments inline20:14
russellbttx: ++20:15
ttxObjections to merging this now and proposing subsequent improvements as separate reviews ?20:15
mtreinishttx: that works for me20:15
ttxperfect being the enemy of good and all20:15
dhellmannttx: I'll update the readme in a follow-up20:15
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annegentlenotmyname is the concern about the wording mentioned on the ML also mentioned in the review?20:15
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notmynameannegentle: good question. I haven't added it in the review (didn't want to have one conversation in 2 places)20:16
notmynameannegentle: would you like me to add a reference in gerrit?20:16
ttxI'll add my alternate wording suggestion in there for reference, before approving20:16
dansmithseems like removing three words would make this first version acceptable to almost everyone, right?20:16
annegentlenotmyname ttx yeah that's helpful for archival purposes (and when our future selves look back after trying this out)20:16
dansmith"above other work" the sticking point for me20:16
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notmynamedansmith: yeah, that's the worst part20:17
ttxrecorded my alternate wording suggestion20:17
dhellmanndansmith : that would make it unacceptable to me, fwiw20:18
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dansmithif we removed that I'd be +1 (for what it's worth) and much happier to iterate from _that_ afterwards20:18
sdaguedhellmann: why?20:18
dansmithbased on the goals proposed after this general doc, I don't understand why it matters that they're highest priority20:18
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dhellmannsdague : because I consider that phrase an important part. Saying "they will prioritize the work" allows it to be a low priority and not even worked on.20:18
annegentlethe whole point is to get agreement that we're investing our resources wisely.20:19
sdaguesure, but there are lots of really important things that never will fit into a process like this20:19
dansmithdhellmann: if that's the case then maybe it's best not to land this and then plan to iterate later, because that'd be the thing I'd like to see iterated upon first :)20:19
ttxI think we can discuss the semantics in the subsequent patch when it's proposed by someone who cares enough about the issue to propose it20:19
annegentleso I'd rather keep strong wording and ensure that the comms around it show the benefits outweigh the concerns20:19
sdaguelike upgrade support20:19
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annegentlesdague ah, ok, so it's the timing/scoping.20:19
sdagueand it is fine that things that fit into one cycle are as important as other things20:19
flaper87o/ kinda here20:19
sdaguebut I'm not sure why things that fit into one cycle trump all other things20:20
dhellmannsdague : it is not "above all other work" it is "above other work"20:20
annegentlesdague that may be where I'm hesitant on value as well. hm.20:20
sdaguedhellmann: ok, I guess I was reading it as the first20:20
dansmithdhellmann: the other words about being a single cycle move that from implicit to explicit, I thnk20:20
dansmithdhellmann: because so much of our important stuff is multi-cycle20:20
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dhellmanndansmith : I have a high level of confidence that the nova team can do 2 things at one time20:21
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notmynamedhellmann: I get the impression you wouldn't be ok with a goal being prioritized as second from the last. that's "above other work". so what's the substantive difference between "over other work" and "over all other work"?20:21
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edleafedhellmann: we're already doing like 6 things at once20:21
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dhellmannnotmyname : I expect teams to have to drop things from their priority lists for a cycle in order to fit these things in. I do not expect them to drop everything.20:22
dansmithdhellmann: we surely can, but I think most of us feel like py3 (as an example) is just not realistically completable in O, and that's kinda the benchmark goal I'm using in my head, since it's very cross-project-y20:22
flaper87notmyname: I guess common sense will come into play in that case. These goals are cross-project and have significant relevance20:22
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flaper87I'd expect teams to be able to prioritize some of their tasks to be able to achieve these goals. Not all tasks should be dropped or de-prioritized20:22
ttxOK, since there is no consensus on alternate wording right now, I'd rather merge the version that actually has 10+ TC members agree with it20:23
annegentleflaper87 also the benefits should be amenable to all of OpenStack, amenable as in "yep that reasoning makes sense"20:23
ttxand let people propose alternate wording20:23
sdagueso, to be clear, I don't want us to die on the hill over whether the word "all" feels implied or not. So as long as we all agree to be reasonable humans unit testing this process with some real things, I'm fine moving forward20:23
dhellmanndansmith : I tried to answer sdague's concerns on that in the review. tl;dr is documenting the plan, and making significant progress on it, would be ok for me.20:23
flaper87annegentle: correct20:23
flaper87ttx: ++20:23
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sdaguebecause I think the reality is we're going to learn a lot trying to do this20:23
annegentlettx are we on deadline for this release though?20:23
flaper87sdague: yes20:23
dhellmannsdague : agreed20:23
russellbsdague: ++20:23
thingeesdague: +120:23
ttxannegentle: we need to define the goals ASAP if they are to have any chance of success20:23
dtroyerin one of the reviews sdague spelled out the Nove issues with mox3, that is the sort of thing I would want to see in a why-this-didn't-hit-once-cycle statement in the doc..  we'll never know _all_ of those things up front, and if we wait for that to even try, well, here we are20:23
johnthetubaguysdague +120:23
annegentlettx oh for next. got it.20:23
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dhellmanndtroyer : exactly20:24
dansmithdhellmann: then why not say that instead of "above other work"?20:24
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ttxOK, approved20:24
dansmithanyway, we're clearly moving20:24
ttxNow onto the goals for Ocata20:24
ttxwhich should be the important discussion, rather than wording details that can change at any point in the future20:24
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ttx#topic Add ocata goal "support python 3.5"20:24
*** openstack changes topic to "Add ocata goal "support python 3.5" (Meeting topic: tc)"20:24
dhellmanndansmith : it's all in there. I don't want every goal to turn into a multi-cycle effort, though. *try* to do the thing in the cycle.20:24
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/34906920:24
amriththanks dhellmann on moving this forward20:24
sdagueok, so in the unit testing mode. I think the question in my mind is where the analysis for what's required happens20:25
ttxthe py35 one is mostly consensual, the only opposition I could track was the comment from sdague20:25
annegentlettx I have concerns20:25
ttx(that mox has some crazy races with python 3 that seem completely non deterministic, and Nova still has 2440 instances where it's called)20:25
* ttx refreshes review20:25
dansmithI have concerns, I don't think py35 is doable in one (the next) cycle for nova20:25
sdaguettx: well, I think it's one of the few projects that exposed what is required inside a specific project20:25
notmynamelikewise, I do not thing py35 is doable in swift in the next cycle20:25
ttxnotmyname: could you express that as a -1 on the review for reference ?20:26
dhellmanndansmith , notmyname : do you think you could make significant progress on it? I think nova and swift are behind some of the other projects in terms of starting point.20:26
notmynamettx: sure. I was holding off until the other patch was resolved :-)20:26
dtroyernotmyname: is there some discrete subset that might be?20:26
sdaguedhellmann: we've been making significant progress for 4 cycles20:27
ttxnotmyname: one -1 at a time ? :)20:27
dansmithdhellmann: we already have20:27
dansmithdhellmann: and will continue to20:27
dhellmannsdague, dansmith : ok, but specifically toward the list of things in this proposal. what *could* you do?20:27
sdaguethe point is the scope per project is assumed to be small20:27
ttxdhellmann: maybe it's a bit early to have that as a goal then20:27
dhellmannsdague : no, I have no doubt this is a big one.20:27
notmynamettx: well, as I said at the beginning, I didn't want to agree to a proposal when I didn't agree with the framework for it. but I'm not sure it needs a -1 because it can't be done all in one cycle?20:27
ttxif for some projects it's more work than they can swallow in a (short) cycle20:27
annegentleso, we're uncovering dependencies issues with Ansible and 3.5, plus the sizing.20:28
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notmynamesure, we'll make progress on py35 compat during the next cycle. as we've done in previous ones20:28
dhellmannannegentle : the ansible thing is not an issue20:28
dansmithdhellmann: I don't actually know anyone actively working on it, so it's really hard to even plan that20:28
ttxnotmyname: the concept of development cycle goals is that they have to be "completed" within a cycle20:28
dhellmanndansmith : what would it take to ensure that there was someone actively working on it?20:28
annegentledhellmann ah ok, re-reading the "integration tests" piece.20:28
ttxso if it's not doable for, say, Nova to complete the goal, it may not be a good goal20:28
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sdaguethe unit tests aren't doable for sure20:28
sdaguebecause of the mox issue20:29
russellbwell, nova is one of the biggest projects, it could also just be an exception20:29
dtroyerfor both Nova and Swift, is there a subset that is doable?20:29
russellbwe expect most projects to complete this, but could have a few documented exceptions where we expect it to be too big to complete20:29
dhellmannyes, I'm not sure we want to size everything based on whether nova can do it in one cycle20:29
dansmithdhellmann: I dunno, money? :)20:29
sdaguenova's functional tests are different than others, so it's actually not super clear that's actually useful20:29
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notmynamerussellb: might need to take it as a sign that nova might not belong in openstack? ;-)20:29
sdaguethe integration testing is the most likely next step20:29
mesteryrussellb: ++, that sounds reasonable20:29
russellbwith the size of openstack, i'm sure exceptions will be common20:30
annegentleI'm not completly convinced of the benefits for here/now.20:30
dhellmannnotmyname : not funny20:30
sdaguebut, someone actually needs to own that bit cross project, to my knowledge python3 devstack is not actually a thing anyone is running voting anywhere20:30
notmynamedhellmann: awe come one. I'm laughing :-)20:30
dansmithannegentle: agreed, I'm not *really* sure who is clamoring for this, tbh20:30
sdaguewhich is unstaffed and not from any particular project, right?20:30
russellbannegentle: because this is a requirement from the python community we have to keep up with?20:30
annegentleand one thing I want to know is, how to propose an alternative to this particular goal? I'm okay with the Oslo one, but this one, I'm not as sure of.20:30
mtreinishsdague: yeah we don't have that voting anywhere20:30
sdaguemtreinish: do we have it running anywhere?20:30
mtreinishsdague: the last I looked there was a patch which flipped the switch dhellmann added a while back for testing20:31
dhellmannsdague : how long before python 2 EOL do you want to wait? if you already think it's going to take >1 year, and we have something like 3?20:31
ttxI think this goal only has value if we can achieve it for all projects, not with already-known missing projects20:31
sdaguedhellmann: we're going to make progress, I just don't think the unit tests are doable20:31
annegentlerussellb but who does that benefit exactly? I'm not sure.20:31
sdagueunless we do things like delete the xenserver driver20:31
ttxannegentle: it benefits us20:31
dhellmannsdague : that's fine with me. I'm much more interested in the integration tests, personally.20:31
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sdaguewhich doesn't mean the code won't work, it's just the unit test issue20:31
mtreinishsdague: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/331224/20:32
patchbotmtreinish: patch 331224 - openstack-dev/devstack - DNM: Test with python 3.4 enabled20:32
russellbannegentle: it affects everyone who runs openstack20:32
dhellmannit just felt weird to say that we'd do those before unit tests20:32
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sdaguedhellmann: right, well unit tests are technical debt too20:32
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ttxdhellmann: maybe limiting to integration tests would make it more... reasonable for the ocata goal20:32
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dhellmannyeah, logically those seemed easier, mox notwithstanding20:32
annegentleclients are in scope here also?20:32
dhellmannttx: I would be ok with that20:32
dansmithttx: sdague: do we have any idea how close we could be to integration tests for all projects?20:33
dhellmannannegentle : yes, everything20:33
sdaguedhellmann: yeh, if it wasn't the mox issue, it would be easy20:33
dansmithbecauseI feel like we know less about those than unit tests20:33
sdaguedansmith: I have no idea20:33
ttxnotmyname: how much more doable would that make it for swift ?20:33
sdaguethat's the part that feels unstaffed20:33
notmynamewhat is an integration test? is that running the service under py3 and running functional tests?20:33
dhellmannsdague : is the solution to the mox thing to rewrite all of those tests?20:33
russellbif we throw goals out because of a minority of exceptions, it feels like we'll just end up with the least common denominator of goals20:33
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mtreinishttx: so change the goal to have a voting dsvm tempest python3.5 job on every project?20:33
dansmithso if this is one cycle, prioritized above other work, how can we possibly even adopt this as a goal?20:33
russellband it won't be a very interesting exercise20:33
sdaguedhellmann: pretty much20:33
sdaguedhellmann: which we've been doing20:33
dhellmannnotmyname : devstack-gate with the service under python 320:33
sdagueit's slow going20:34
dhellmannsdague : ok, if we drop the unit tests does that make it more doable?20:34
dhellmannrussellb : right, consensus is not 100% agreement20:34
notmynamettx: it's hard to stay. yeah, that's less scope, but I'd have to explore more of the current py3 gaps before committing to a deadline20:34
russellband seems like it could be useful to carry goals over to the next cycle for projects that didn't finish it, tracking which needed a bit more time to wrap it up20:35
dansmithnotmyname: that's my point, I feel like it is less easy to answer if you remove the one known bit, at least for nova20:35
russellbpy3 seems like a good example of that20:35
dhellmanndansmith : what I want is for projects to try it. If we discover that it doesn't work, then that's an outcome. But if we never set a goal of trying it, then everyone is going to keep saying "we have N more years"20:35
ttxdhellmann: looks like this one needs more work, should we switch to discussing the other one ?20:35
dhellmannttx: ok20:35
ttx#topic Add ocata goal "remove copies of incubated Oslo code"20:35
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*** openstack changes topic to "Add ocata goal "remove copies of incubated Oslo code" (Meeting topic: tc)"20:35
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/34907020:35
dhellmannrussellb: carry-over is built into the process20:35
ttxI noticed objection from mugsie that designate likes using its own copy of the small memorycache wrapper20:35
dansmithdhellmann: I'm all for it, but we just agreed it was going to be pretty high priority and we hardly know what the extent is :)20:35
ttxBut that seems to point to either the need to split that function from the lib or just accept the benefits of the maintained lib approach (disk space is cheap)20:35
ttxNo other objection last time I looked20:36
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sdaguettx: ok, so this again is the process question20:36
sdaguehow many teams should check in with the scope for their project before moving this forward20:36
sdaguebecause it's super easy for me to +1, this directory doesn't exist in nova20:36
sdaguebut, that's kind of a cop out :)20:36
jrollthere's a paste in the patch with a list of all the things this includes20:36
jrollwhich isn't large20:36
ttxsdague: I expect that even in the worst case scenario that would be reasonable amount of work20:37
sdaguettx: I'd rather we didn't guess20:37
dhellmannsdague : if the work is done, then that's all that needs to be reported.20:37
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jrollthis is the current estimate:20:37
jroll#link http://paste.openstack.org/show/55041820:37
ttxsdague: that is why we cced all PTLs on that review20:37
dhellmannsdague : this was a purposefully small goal, because the other was larger20:37
sdaguettx: ok20:37
dtroyerwe are fast-tracking the bits that would get more time to research in future goals20:37
sdaguedtroyer: we're still setting a pattern20:38
sdagueI guess the question is, should the PTLs actually update the patch with what their project needs to do20:38
annegentleok, for this one can I get the rewording since the comms here are pretty critical?20:38
mtreinishjroll: that's not that many20:38
sdagueso with TC hat on, it's easier to say, "yeh, this seems very reasonable to push through on this cycle"20:38
ttxannegentle: agree wording is more important to get right on this one20:38
dhellmannsdague : yes, the PTLs should all prepare patches to update the details for their project20:38
jrollmtreinish: exactly, and it isn't likely to break things hard, so I think it should be fairly easy20:38
annegentlesdague I think the other document says PTLs track separately?20:38
dhellmannannegentle : they need to provide links to their tracking artifacts, or details as to why those do not exist20:39
sdaguedhellmann: ok, but the TC is going to evaluate goals before the data exists on project scope?20:39
sdagueI guess I imagined this a slightly different way20:39
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johnthetubaguysdague: +1 on the process causing some confusion for me, I imagined something slightly different again20:40
sdagueTC: we think this should be a goal for the next cycle, how hard is it for projects20:40
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dhellmannsdague : we're bootstrapping this process with some goals that we all discussed before. I picked 2 I knew about to write up.20:40
sdagueProjects: this is what it requires of us (into the review)20:40
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sdagueTC: ok, now we have the data to evaluate prioritizing this20:40
dhellmannthey don't have to provide that until the O-1 milestone20:40
sdaguedhellmann: so then how do we know these are reasonable goals?20:41
johnthetubaguyhang on... at what point to we work out we screwed up20:41
johnthetubaguyerm, I mean what sdague said...20:41
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johnthetubaguyare these proposals we talk to the summit, and then projects follow up on the winners?20:41
ttxgoals should not originally come from a vacuum20:41
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ttxthey should be the result of community discussions where we see the topic emerge as a potential goal20:42
johnthetubaguys/we talk/we take/20:42
dhellmannthe normal order is: discuss goals in community to determine scope and interest (summit); plan goals in the community (before PTG); TC pick a couple, write up, and approve by PTG; plan implementation (PTG); submit artifact docs (1st milestone); submit final docs (release)20:42
ttxthe job of the TC is to detect that trend and propose it as goal. We can get it wrong20:42
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dhellmannfor this coming cycle, we have the summit and cycle start happening at the same time20:43
ttxbut the review should uncover those20:43
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dhellmannbut I did not want to wait a full year before starting to work out how to handle goals20:43
sdagueok, I guess I assumed we'd get some first cut plan in this doc before it landed20:43
ttxdhellmann: I don't think we need to wait one year either20:43
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ttxdhellmann: looks like we'll need another round on that goal as well, if only t oinclude the wording from anne in there20:44
dhellmannsdague : no, those are meant to be individual follow-ups so we can discuss them20:44
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dansmithso, we as a project pick our priorities at the summit/beginning of the cycle,20:44
dhellmannttx: ?20:44
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ttxdansmith: summit won't be at beginning of cycle20:44
dansmithI would think the goals have to be vetted and reasonable by that point to be included in our prioritization20:45
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dansmithttx: yeah, which is why I said /beginning20:45
ttxoh ok20:45
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dansmithttx: but dhellmann said O1, which presumably means first milestone for any cycle, is where we find out if it's doable, right?20:45
ttxdhellmann: we don't have majority yet and Anne proposed extra words for that one20:45
fungion the "submit artifact docs" stage, i can imagine it getting tiresome for some teams (for example, i18n who has no code repositories whatsoever, or stable branch team who won't be able to backport any of this) to have to provide the tc with updates on why each and every one of these priorities doesn't apply to their team. is the tc going to actuall expect to get word back from every single team,20:45
fungior just use common sense on what projects will actually be impacted?20:46
dhellmanndansmith : you're skipping the discussions between summit and ptg20:46
ttxoh we actually have a majority now20:46
ttxdhellmann: do you want to do another patchset including anne's proposed wording ?20:46
dhellmannfungi : we'll see how that goes. I'm curious about infra's plans to port tooling to py3, though. :-)20:46
annegentledhellmann or I can20:46
ttxWe need to switch to next topic20:47
dhellmannannegentle : I do not see any suggested wording changes?20:47
johnthetubaguyI was imagining we agree a draft list of goals in the last session of the cross project track, so that can trickle down, and we loop back at the end of the week20:47
ttxdhellmann: Add lead sentence: "By ensuring all projects are using released Oslo libraries, OpenStack can ensure that Oslo bug fixes and security releases are available to all projects."20:47
annegentledhellmann would like a single sentence lead/lede20:47
annegentledhellmann I can do it, after merging20:47
fungidhellmann: me too!20:47
dhellmannoh, I'm looking at the wrong patchset20:47
annegentledhellmann it's not controversial20:47
annegentlefungi heh20:47
sdagueI don't think the goal is controversial, I just want to get the pattern right going forward20:47
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annegentledhellmann it kinda sucks since it uses "ensure" twice.20:47
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annegentledhellmann I can work on it20:48
dhellmannannegentle : ok, let's work on that separately, I agree it's a good addition20:48
ttxannegentle: let's approve it and refine it later ?20:48
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annegentledhellmann ttx yep, I'm good with that20:48
ttxok done20:48
sdagueI would personally much rather have some chunk of the listed projects inline have data about whether or not it applies to them20:48
notmynameon this general topic then, what's next for PTLs?20:48
sdagueand what the scope would be20:49
notmynamewhere do we submit patches to reference things? when?20:49
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ttxsdague: we can always add that20:49
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dhellmannnotmyname : update the goal page in the governance repo with links to plans or other artifacts by the first ocata milestone20:49
ttxneed to switch to next topic20:49
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ttx#topic Storlets (initial discussion)20:49
*** openstack changes topic to "Storlets (initial discussion) (Meeting topic: tc)"20:49
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/35369320:49
ttxDo we have anyone from the Storlets project ?20:49
eranromyep. Thanks for having us20:50
eranromttx: I have replied to your initial questions in Gerrit20:50
ttxeranrom: thanks20:51
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ttxFWIW what I mean by viable standalone is a team taht actually works outside of the original team it was developed under20:51
ttxI missed  your meetings since they are not logged under the offciial channels20:52
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annegentleis there any other project working like this today?20:52
ttxso I was wondering how long you've been operating as a separate team20:52
eranromWell, the fact is the from day 1 storlets have been developed outside of the Swift team20:52
eranromfor about a year now20:53
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eranrom14 month to be precise :-)20:53
notmynamettx: what eranrom said. storlets didn't come out of the openstack swift developer team. this is an ecosystem project asking to join openstack, not a separation of one project out of another20:54
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russellbsounds like a very cool project, btw20:54
eranromrussellb: thanks!20:54
annegentleyeah I'm excited about the possibilities20:54
notmynamealthough, of course, eranrom and anyone doing storlets is/has also been talking to people who do swift things (and quite a bit)20:54
bswartzThis project is Java code... doesn't that disqualify it?20:54
thingeeopenjdk is not known at this time to work according to comments. I believe other solutions in openstack have hit this wall in just being a proposed dependency.20:54
russellbbswartz: end users write java code20:54
dhellmanneranrom : how do you test the java bits under CI?20:54
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jrollthingee: where does it say openjdk doesn't work?20:55
eranromwell, all the Java code is running in a Docker container, we have a Jenkins job that builds it, and then we drive our middleware to test it20:56
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jrollthingee: oh, found it, sorry20:56
dtroyerwe don't (AFAIK) have any other projects promoting Java as a user-facing language20:56
mesteryeranrom: That's a slick way to do it using containers, very nice20:56
annegentledtroyer jclouds is governed by Apache Foundation fwiw20:56
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dtroyerit's an sdk/app developer thing, is this the same category20:56
eranromdtroyer: Doesn't the SDK uses Java and other?20:56
dtroyerusing that logic, we can run powershell in projects20:57
bswartzI'm just confused about why we can say no to golang and yes to java...20:57
jrollbswartz: this isn't a java project20:57
jrollit's a project that runs java20:57
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bswartzjroll: thanks20:57
eranrommestery: Well containers are at the heart of the project, we cannot just execute end user code on a storage system20:57
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mesteryeranrom: Exactly, but still, it's a neat model and lets you do some interesting things with regards to CI20:58
annegentlebswartz it's not a REST service written in Java20:58
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eranrommestery: right20:58
mesteryeranrom: We do some similar things for the work we've done in upstream ovs/ovn for scale testing20:58
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eranromannegentle: bswartz: Right, its more if a language binding20:58
eranromwe are now working also on Python20:59
kota_eranrom: for running user's python code20:59
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eranromkota_: right, thanks20:59
kota_on a storage system20:59
ttxOK, unfortunately we do not have a lot of time to cover this today and will have to continue this in a future meeting. In the mean time, please review and comment on the change itself20:59
dtroyerhas there been any thought with regard to auditing/securing the container running user-supplied code?20:59
ttxsince this teaser seems to have picked your interest20:59
eranromttx: thanks20:59
annegentledid I miss any answer for my question about the model, has it been done before or is it happening elsewhere?21:00
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johnthetubaguyI remember this coming up: https://zerovm.readthedocs.io/zerocloud/overview.html21:00
jrollannegentle: zerovm did something similar but implemented totally different21:00
annegentlethe project dependency model21:00
ttxeranrom: you could retrofit some of the answers to my questions in the commit message for reference21:00
annegentlejroll ok21:00
eranromjohnthetubaguy: right21:00
jrollannegentle: and not openstack21:00
bswartzttx: s/picked/piqued/21:00
eranromttx: sure21:00
ttx(especially the details around language, which will avoid a lot of questions)21:00
ttxbswartz: damn, owned by a French verb21:00
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ttx#topic Open discussion21:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)"21:01
annegentlettx quelle horreur21:01
ttxA lot of us will be at OpenStack East / Ops midcycle in New York next week so it's probably a good bet to skip that one21:01
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annegentleso, shall I propose another idea for a goal to get all projects using the common API docs tooling? Is that the sort of thing we're looking at?21:01
ttxI'll propose that in a -tc thread21:01
mtreinishannegentle: ++21:01
annegentleI don't mind skipping next week21:02
ttxAnd we are over time21:02
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:02
openstackMeeting ended Tue Aug 16 21:02:32 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:02
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-08-16-20.02.html21:02
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openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-08-16-20.02.txt21:02
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-08-16-20.02.log.html21:02
ttxThanks everyone21:02
amriththx ttx21:03
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