Wednesday, 2016-08-17

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_dezblanchfield_ping? anyone in the house?01:38
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anteaya_dezblanchfield_: you are in a meeting channel, try #openstack-dev01:52
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oneswig#startmeeting scientific_wg09:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Aug 17 09:00:47 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is oneswig. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.09:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)"09:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'scientific_wg'09:00
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oneswig#link Agenda from wiki
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oneswigGood morning all09:01
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dariovgood morning!09:01
priteauGood morning09:01
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oneswigHi there!09:02
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oneswigblairo: where's the '1'?09:02
oneswig#chair blairo09:02
openstackCurrent chairs: blairo oneswig09:02
blairowondered whether you'd notice09:02
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oneswigI miss nothing (except family birthdays)09:03
blairocoming to you live from the office tonight09:03
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oneswigThe Presidential suite?09:03
blairo(where i have my client configured properly for my irc bouncer)09:03
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oneswigAha, well lets get the show on the road - I don't think there's a massive amount this week, it's holiday season over here09:04
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oneswig#topic Accounting and Scheduling09:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Accounting and Scheduling (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)"09:04
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oneswigDid you see the mail from Danielle Mundle?09:04
blairore. quota study?09:04
oneswigthat's the one.  Seemed relevant to some in this wG09:04
dariovyep, saw that09:05
blairoyes i volunteered (i they can accommodate me being away next two weeks)09:05
dariovI think a couple of guys here might be interested, but they’re on holiday for the next two weeks ;-)09:05
dariovbad timing09:05
blairoin the last UX thing i did (horizon mock-up review) i made some comments around quotas and the nectar use-cases09:05
oneswigQuite an involved approach to have a video interview but it sounds like it could be useful way to capture feedback09:06
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blairowould be good to formalise that09:06
blairoit's particularly relevant to large distributed clouds running cells i think09:06
blairoyeah i guess they are after qualitative rather than quantitative data09:07
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oneswigI recall Tim Bell's gripe was the combination of a user quota and a group quota09:08
oneswigI hope that's well covered in their survey09:08
blairoreminds me i have not been back to review, summarise, share the results of the research/science cloud survey we knocked up for austin09:08
oneswigperfect holiday activity?09:08
blairocould be (if my wife is not looking ;-)09:09
oneswigYou take concerns over data confidentiality very seriously, that's impressive :-)09:09
oneswigOK well I think that's the UX message covered09:10
priteauIn Chameleon the main pain point about quota is that they get out of sync regularly, and have to be corrected manually in the database. I have seen it reported on launchpad, anyone here seen it as well?09:10
oneswigWas there more on accounting and scheduling to cover?09:10
blairoi think cern in particular want a nested quota structure that works for a department - project/team - individual layered approach09:10
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dariovsame here blairo09:10
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dariovwe actually discussed with Tim on that back in march I guess09:11
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dariovwe would *love* to have the same thing at the EBI09:11
blairopriteau: yes we have that problem in many large deployments i think09:11
dariovit would solve many problems09:11
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oneswigGood points people - stand up and be heard09:11
blairoin nectar our cron box runs a regular quota sync task09:11
dariovlike the “Give the PI a big quota, and then let him decide how to split it among his people” kind of thing09:11
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blairodariov: ok, well i'll be sure to make sure the UX folks are aware of that requirement and the people interested in it09:12
dariovthis would save some paint at our cloud guys09:12
dariovblairo, thanks09:12
blairotim has blogged pretty extensively on this already so i think we can just say: that please09:12
oneswig#link Sign up here for UX discussions
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oneswigAny more to cover on this?09:13
blairomaybe one thing09:14
blairopriteau: i can point you to what we're doing in nectar for quota sync (i'm not intimately familiar with the code but sounds like it may be the same problem)09:15
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blairothat was all09:15
oneswig#topic User stories09:15
*** openstack changes topic to "User stories (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)"09:15
priteaublairo: I'd like to take a look if you've got the scripts in a public repo. I have found another one on GitHub as well09:15
oneswigOK I'm still working away on the OpenStack/HPC paper but I've realised I need some more data points, perhaps you can help09:16
blairopriteau: details here:
priteauthanks blairo09:17
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oneswigThanks blairo looks handy09:18
oneswigYou might have seen on the operators list, I'm looking for an IB user, ideally in production09:18
oneswigThought there were loads, turns out not so much09:18
oneswigDoes anyone know one?09:19
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blairoyou might be first oneswig o_009:19
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oneswigI don't have IB (although I might be getting some second-hand kit to experiment with)09:20
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dariovso, just because I’m noob, what’s an IB?09:20
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oneswigJon Mills said they used to, but found IPoIB was slower than 10GE09:20
oneswigIB = infiniband, sorry09:20
blairoah yes, crossing my link-layers - cambridge has SN2700 ethernet fabric too09:20
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verdurinMorning. I will have it shortly, as I've already told oneswig.09:21
oneswigThanks verdurin, and good morning09:21
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blairooneswig: are you wanting folks that are doing IB all the way to guest, i.e., sriov, or just using IB as their DC interconnect ?09:22
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oneswigWell I'm not sure, whatever turns up09:22
blairo(i assumed the former, but realised i could be wrong)09:22
oneswigI'm trying to think of ways an HPC user might think of what OpenStack can't do09:23
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oneswigI think I'm trying to prove an apple is an orange09:23
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blairoso long as there are no lemons involved i don't see a problem09:24
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oneswigRight!  Bowled you a slow one there :-)09:24
blairolike australia against sri lanka09:25
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oneswigI think I missed that one09:25
blairoclean sweep of latest test series to them09:25
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oneswigThere's a strange randomness to cricket outcomes I don't fully understand09:26
oneswigOK, I'll keep looking.  Anything else to cover on user stories?09:26
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blairoi'm finally reading your draft now oneswig09:26
oneswigblairo: great thanks, appreciate that09:27
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oneswig#topic Bare metal09:28
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oneswigI don't think I have anything on bare metal this week.  What's new in the Ironic world?09:28
oneswigverdurin: will your new cluster be bare metal with IB or virtualised?09:29
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oneswigThink he's gone...?09:31
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oneswigOK lets move on09:32
priteauoneswig: All the multi-tenant network support appears to have been committed, but we have yet to evaluate it09:32
blairoprobably to get coffee09:32
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oneswigpriteau: great, thanks for the update on that, good to know09:32
oneswigI'll be interested to see how they are mapping physical machines to physical network ports - do you know?09:33
priteauI think you have to define the port number when registering a node09:33
oneswigAh OK, defer the mapping problem...09:33
oneswigThis might be something the Ironic Inspector could learn, I wonder09:34
oneswigcogs whirring09:34
oneswigpriteau: BTW did you get any further with your patches for Blazard?09:34
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priteauoneswig: not yet unfortunately09:35
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oneswigok, just wondering.  A big set of patches can be like being carried away by a helium balloon - the longer you leave it, the more it'll hurt09:36
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oneswigOK, move on?09:36
oneswig#topic Parallel filesystems09:37
*** openstack changes topic to "Parallel filesystems (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)"09:37
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oneswigI believe the team at Cambridge have got Lustre into their VMs but I don't know how it's performing.  Progress for them though.09:38
verdurinoneswig: virtualised, at least initially09:38
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verdurinWe plan to investigate GPFS into our VMs09:38
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blairogood to hear09:39
oneswigverdurin: via IB I assume?09:39
verdurinoneswig: preferably. Ethernet is possible, too.09:39
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oneswigverdurin: how close are you to getting this system up and running?09:39
blairoours on M3 is going fine, still tuning the filesystem for performance at a more basic level, no performance issues caused by sriov at this stage09:40
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verdurinoneswig: not very - super busy with other stuff but people are starting to ask about it more, so I'll have to find the time09:40
oneswigblairo: That's Lustre right?09:40
blairousing o2ib LNET09:41
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oneswigdariov: what do you use at EBI?09:41
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dariovoneswig, NetApp I think09:42
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dariovbut the guys are moving loads of stuff lately09:42
dariovso I might need to check with them09:42
oneswigBe interesting to hear what they migrate to09:42
oneswigIf that's the plan09:42
dariovI don’t think09:42
dariovwe got “some” new kits coming in in the near future09:43
dariovwhen they’ll be here they’ll start migrating everything to Mitaka09:44
blairooneswig: one thing to be aware of that i discovered recently is that device passthrough, e.g. for sriov NICs/HCAs, means that transparent huge pages cannot be allocated by the host09:44
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oneswigGiving a consequence for memory-intensive workloads?09:44
blairo(because IOMMU requires guest memory to be pinned)09:44
dariovbut the storage backend will be the same09:45
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oneswigIf guest memory must be pinned what effect does that have on things like KSM, overcommitment and ballooning?09:45
blairoyes will probably be very sucky for memory intensive workloads if you have very large guests (as bigger memory footprint means more top-level TLB misses)09:45
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blairoe.g. 200+GB of 4kB pages09:46
blairobut! you just have to know to use static huge pages instead09:46
oneswigCan you note this in the doc?  Pearls of wisdom from Down Under09:46
blairoi don't have any numbers yet that quantify this, but i hope to produce something at least anecdotal09:46
oneswigOK, AOB?09:47
blairoand yes, that would impact KSM etc, but you already want those disabled if you care about HPC-like performance09:47
oneswigbut perhaps this means you must have them disabled?09:47
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oneswig#topic AOB09:48
*** openstack changes topic to "AOB (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)"09:48
oneswigI had an interesting problem this week09:48
oneswigMellanox NICs, anyone got those? ;-)09:48
blaironot sure about ballooning as does that even work in libvirt+kvm reliably? but for KSM and overcommit just means they won't work09:48
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oneswigWe've had this kernel barf whenever a TCP connection is initiated via VXLAN09:49
oneswigDoes anyone see that?09:49
blairothough if you are overcommitting by force, like with nova scheduler, it probably means you'll end up DOS-ing your compute nodses09:49
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blairoi.e. they'll OOM09:49
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blairohaven't tried any VXLAN traffic on them yet, but we are quite close to doing that with midonet09:50
oneswigMidonet?  Interesting.  We have VXLAN+OVS and VLAN+SRIOV networks09:51
blairosounds worrisome09:51
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oneswigOnly the VXLAN ones have this issue with kernel backtraces09:51
blairolatest firmware+driver i take it?09:51
oneswigI think so.09:52
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blairooh, do you the Pro models specifically that support VXLAN and GRE offload?09:52
oneswigWorking on it now with support - I'll report back09:52
blairo*you mean09:52
oneswigDon't think so, we have ConnectX4-LX09:52
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oneswigDon't recall any reference to pro on these ones09:52
blairoyeah all newer cards just support that09:52
blairobut earlier CX-3 cards did not09:53
blairomellanox will tell you they are all pro now ;-)09:53
oneswigI think we must be doing something wrong: VXLAN bandwidth is ~1.6Gbits/s at best - on a 50G link09:53
blairofineprint: except for the bugs09:53
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oneswigThat's for iperf.  If there's a hardware offload, it's not engaging09:54
blairoyeah definitely09:54
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oneswigQuestion is, what counts for decent bandwidth in a VXLAN world?  I don't have much hope for it.09:54
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oneswigThrough SR-IOV, we sustained 10.5GBytes/s (bi-directional)09:55
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blairowell i believe early testing in nectar land with iperf over midonet (which is just vxlan once established) managed 4-5Gbps melbourne to queensland (no h/w offload)09:56
oneswigmidonet is based on OVS too, right?09:56
blairoyeah OVS dataplane09:56
oneswigstandard MTU?  It appears to be massively interrupt-dominant in the hypervisor09:56
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openstackMeeting ended Wed Aug 17 10:16:26 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)10:16
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tonyb#startmeeting requirements12:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Aug 17 12:00:15 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is tonyb. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.12:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: requirements)"12:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'requirements'12:00
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tonyb#topic rollcall12:00
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tonybwe have me and prometheanfire who else?12:00
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sdake_yo folks :) morning12:02
sdake_although not atteending this meeting - thought i'd say hi :)12:02
* coolsvap_ is here but bit occupied at couple of places12:02
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toabctldirk is on vacation12:02
tonybsdake_: howday ... come to the view stay for the fun :)12:02
sdake_i'll lurk ;)12:03
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tonyb#topic agenda12:03
*** openstack changes topic to "agenda (Meeting topic: requirements)"12:03
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tonyb#topic Any controversies in the Queue?12:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Any controversies in the Queue? (Meeting topic: requirements)"12:03
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tonybthe dogtag-pki one isn't a problem but personaly I'm not 100% certain it's right12:04
tonybso I think we're basically okay12:05
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toabctltonyb, what's wrong with it?12:05
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prometheanfireya, that one is more odd12:05
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prometheanfirethe dep on python-nss makes it more odd12:06
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tonybtoabctl: like we talked about in the requirements channel I'm preety sure that nss shoudln't be in g-r but I haven't actually done any testing.12:06
toabctltonyb, you mean python-nss , right?12:06
tonybtoabctl: Yeah.12:06
toabctlhm. I'm not sure about that tbh12:07
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toabctlth thing is that when you do a "pip install python-nss" it installs version 0.17 or something. but for python3 support we need 1.0.0beta1 at least.12:08
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tonybtoabctl: Hmm okay that's strange12:09
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toabctltonyb, I guess pip installs the latest non-beta/rc/dev release.12:09
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tonybtoabctl: Yeah that could be it.12:10
prometheanfireyou can't pass it the constraint and make sure it installs that?12:10
tonybtoabctl: like what prometheanfire says.12:11
toabctl$ pip install python-nss>=1.0.0beta112:11
toabctl^^ like that?12:11
tonybtoabctl: not quite12:12
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toabctlhm. then I don't get the question. sorry12:12
tonybadd python-nss to upper-constraints.txt12:12
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tonybthen pip install -c upper-constraints.txt dogtag-pki12:12
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tonyb*should* get the beta1 version without it needing to be in g-r12:13
toabctlthat works iirc12:13
tonybtoabctl: okay.  that's what I'd expect.12:13
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tonybSo I think we should move on12:15
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tonyb#topic Additional Gating12:15
*** openstack changes topic to "Additional Gating (Meeting topic: requirements)"12:15
toabctlyeah. Not sure if I understood what you expect but we can discuss that in the changeset12:15
tonybdo we have anythign for that or can we remove it form the agenda?12:16
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prometheanfiretonyb: I think we were looking at even more coverage, but nothing specific12:16
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tonybtoabctl: sure.  Like I said I haven't done my local testing to *know* what (if anything) needs to be done12:17
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tonybprometheanfire: okay.12:17
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tonybI guess that brings us to ....12:18
tonyb#topic Tasks from Etherpad12:18
*** openstack changes topic to "Tasks from Etherpad (Meeting topic: requirements)"12:18
tonyb... I added some stuff to item 7 for things that 'Additional Gating' might/should do12:19
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prometheanfireI added an item as well12:20
prometheanfire    figure out _ vs - in the canonical names for django_openstack_auth, glance-store and ironic-lib (etc)12:20
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tonybWe probably need to make anything that writes packages names to a constraints file do so in canonical form.  Assuming pip does the right thing if ...12:22
tonybthe constraints file contains foo_bar and the pip install -c .... foo-bar12:22
tonyb(or vice versa)12:23
prometheanfireya, I think the reason things are confused is that we allow both in reviews12:23
tonybanyone wnat to run with that?12:23
prometheanfireit's been on my radar, just busy12:23
tonybI s'pose we could warn/error/fail if *new* things are NOT in canonical form12:24
tonybokay, wanna add you name to it and maybe add a "review assignment date" in a month?12:24
prometheanfireya, just need to have a test for that12:25
tonybkinda like a timed mutex12:25
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tonybAnything else for tasks?12:27
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tonybSeems not .....12:29
tonyb#topic Volunteer for next 2 meetings12:29
*** openstack changes topic to "Volunteer for next 2 meetings (Meeting topic: requirements)"12:29
tonyb- Aug 24th?12:29
* tonyb can't do it12:29
tonybcoolsvap: already said no ....12:29
prometheanfireI thought we had someone for next week12:29
tonybprometheanfire: I'll check the logs again but it didn't make it to the wiki  ...12:30
prometheanfireguess not12:30
prometheanfireI can do it12:30
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tonybprometheanfire: good man12:31
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tonyb- Aug 31st?12:31
coolsvapI can do Aug 3112:31
tonybcoolsvap: Thanks12:31
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tonyb#topic Open Discussion12:33
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: requirements)"12:33
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tonybanything ....12:33
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tonybnumber80: has a thing but isn't here ... I might drop it from the agenda12:33
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tonybWell it's open discussion so I can tell you that they're cooking empanadas on TV and it's torture ....12:35
tonybif we don't have anything else shall we have 25mins back?12:35
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tonybgoing once ....12:37
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tonybgoing twice ....12:37
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tonybThanks all!12:38
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"12:38
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openstackMeeting ended Wed Aug 17 12:38:41 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)12:38
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joehuang#startmeeting tricircle13:01
openstackMeeting started Wed Aug 17 13:01:01 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is joehuang. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.13:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tricircle)"13:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tricircle'13:01
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joehuang#topic rollcall13:01
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joehuang#info joehuang13:01
joehuanghi, liukun13:01
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zhiyuan#info zhiyuan13:01
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Dongfeng#info dongfeng13:01
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yinxiulin#info xiulin13:01
ronghui #info ronghui13:01
Yipei_#info Yipei13:01
ronghui#info ronghui13:01
joehuang#topic progress review o features13:02
*** openstack changes topic to "progress review o features (Meeting topic: tricircle)"13:02
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joehuanghello, for policy based api authorization, I just submitted a patch13:02
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yinxiulinI finished the nova_apigw microversion feature, and Jenkins has passed13:03
joehuangso that the API authorization could be done based on policy13:03
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joehuanghi, all13:03
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joehuangto Xiulin, good to know the microversion feature passed the jekin test13:04
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hejiaweiI write a patch to force detach a volume ,I'm learning how to test it13:04
joehuanghow about the py27 unit test?13:04
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joehuangto Jiawei, good job13:04
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yinxiulinpy27 passed13:04
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joehuangto Xiulin, good news, then we can begin to review the patch13:05
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zhiyuanfor me, patches for floating ip deletion and subnet deletion have been submitted. router deletion is under development.13:05
joehuangHi, Jawei, you can learn by patches which had been merged13:05
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Yipei_about dynamic pod binding, i submitted a patch, but it still needs to be improved. So i did not add you guys into the reviewer list. i will improve it based on Zhiyuan's comments first.13:06
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joehuangyou can search all merged patches here:
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joehuangTo Yipei, it's a great progress :)13:08
ronghuithere is some reception work this last week and this week, and for the blog i have question how to add the picture in the wiki13:08
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ronghuiand solve this problem i will finish this blog today13:09
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joehuangyou can try edit some wiki pages which include pictures(but don't submit), you can learn how to add picture13:10
Yipei_@joe, i will go on improving it13:10
joehuangadd the link in the wiki first, then if you click the link, you have to upload a new picture13:11
ronghuiok i will try this and to submit the blog today as much as possible13:11
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joehuangto Zhiyuan, great job13:11
joehuangI'll try tempest test cases for server start/stop based on your patches13:13
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joehuangSo everybody is encouraged to review other13:13
joehuang's patch13:13
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Dongfengthe documentation on pod and pod binding may be not perfect. because I don't understand the functions very well. If there are some  mistakes please tell me. next i am studying tempest test for pod features.13:13
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zhiyuanto joe, fine, but you need to merge all the patches first locally :)13:14
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joehuangTo Dongfeng, thank you, will review it soon13:14
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joehuangYou can also refer to
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joehuangwhich is the api guide from OpenStack13:16
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joehuangnext topic13:18
joehuang#topic open discussion13:18
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joehuanghow do you think about the risk for the feature parity implementation13:19
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joehuangand other topics13:20
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zhiyuanthe risk for neutron part is that whether we are going to support UPDATE operation13:20
zhiyuansome UPDATE operation may not be easy to implement13:21
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joehuangwill the update operation block tempest for other features? We did not open tempest test on any Neutron feature for Tricircle plugin yet13:22
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zhiyuanserver attach detach interface operation may rely on port UPDATE operation13:24
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joehuanghow about only support port update in this cycle13:25
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hejiaweiwhen I test my environment ,I can't attach a volume to server ,have the attach patch been finished?13:26
zhiyuanmaybe we decide what to support based on tempest test for server13:26
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zhiyuanif server tempest test need port UPDATE, we just implement it13:27
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joehuangyes, based on the needed for tempest test13:28
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joehuangTo jiawei and zhiyuan, volume attchment has been implemented13:31
hejiaweiI will try it again.13:32
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ronghuiand how to attach the volume to the VM we just try the command "nova volume-attach #volume-ID"13:33
zhiyuanto jiawei, if you still have problem, you can send out the log and error message via mail list13:33
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ronghuiis the command right?13:34
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ronghuior should we need to add the os-region-name?13:34
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hejiaweiok,got it13:34
zhiyuanno need to add os-region-name13:35
joehuangadd --debug to see what happened13:35
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joehuangfor example nova --debug volume-attach or openstack --debug13:35
ronghuiok we will try it13:36
joehuangother topics?13:36
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Yipei_no for me13:37
ronghuino for me  if there is another problem we will send email to you13:37
joehuangok, let's end the meeting13:37
joehuangthank you13:37
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"13:37
openstackMeeting ended Wed Aug 17 13:37:37 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)13:37
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Dongfeng bye13:37
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krotscheck#startmeeting javascript14:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Aug 17 14:00:02 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is krotscheck. Information about MeetBot at
krotscheckGooood morning everyone!14:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: javascript)"14:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'javascript'14:00
krotscheck#chair vkramskikh14:00
openstackCurrent chairs: krotscheck vkramskikh14:00
yujunzGood evening!14:00
krotscheckyujunz! You're here!14:00
krotscheckHi! I mean14:00
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krotscheck#link Agenda:
krotscheck#topic Action Followup14:01
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krotscheckAlright, so vkramskikh managed to propose (and land) the eslint 4.0.1 update14:01
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krotscheckI've been trying to convince infra to land our patches, with mixed results. There's a lot of pressure to get bindep landed first, which is tricky because AJaeger is in germany and just went on vacation.14:01
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krotscheckUpside, we have a docs draft build14:02
krotscheck(which I'm currently testing with
cardeoisbut didn't you do the bindep thing already?14:02
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krotscheckcardeois: It's one thing to do the work, it's another to find two members from a different, busy team to +2 it :(14:03
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krotscheckThere's a bunch of projects that are under the infra banner that I can't +2, since I write most of the patches. Ergo, we have to convince two non-javascript types from the infra team to +2 it, and they're a little allergic to javascript14:04
krotscheckI'm currently working on the keystone version selection API, more details later in the meeting.14:05
krotscheckHas anyone thought about how to handle microversions at all?14:05
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yujunzWhat's it about?14:05
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krotscheckBasically, each service will slowly increment their versinos based on changes.14:06
krotscheckThat version is communicated via a header: "OpenStack-API-Version: <servicename> ##.##"14:06
krotscheckFact is that microversions can very easily break our client library if we're not careful.14:07
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krotscheckSo we'll have to be careful about how/which versions we can support.14:07
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krotscheckAt the moment it's not so much a problem, because we're really just making HTTP requests on our user's behalfs.14:07
msmoldo we want to support *every* version or a subset?14:08
krotscheckBut once we start writing convenience methods, that gets tricky.14:08
krotscheckmsmol: Exactly. I don't know.14:08
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krotscheckEven if we support a subset, how do we test that subset?14:08
cardeoisI think we should support at least latest version, and let people contribute older versions if they need it14:08
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cardeoisIf that's easy to plug a new version support, that shouldn't be a problem14:08
krotscheckcardeois: Latest as in master, or latest as in the last integrated release?14:09
cardeoisGood question...14:09
krotscheckOpenStack has a 2 version deprecation cycle.14:09
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krotscheckPart of me is thinking that we set up gate jobs that do DSVM against release-current, release-1, and master.14:10
krotscheckAnd somehow make sure that our assumptions for the unit tests remain the same.14:10
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krotscheckAnyway- this is rapidly switching into design discussion - I'll take it that nobody's brainstormed on it yet?14:11
krotscheckDoes anyone want to take that on and write a proposal?14:11
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cardeoisYeah that would make sense. And when a release-1 becomes a release-2, we could keep the code say it's deprecated and rely on unit tests only (cause functional tests are not possible anymore)14:11
krotscheck(note, we don't really have to deal with it until after Newton is released)14:11
krotscheck('cause that's when we start having to support two versions rather than just master)14:12
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krotscheckAlso, we can ask the OSC people on how they do things.14:12
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krotscheckOk, we'll table this one for the time being.14:13
krotscheck#action Discuss microversions in depth next meeting14:13
krotscheck#topic jsdoc integration with sphinx14:13
*** openstack changes topic to "jsdoc integration with sphinx (Meeting topic: javascript)"14:13
krotscheckyujunz: You've got a proposal?14:13
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yujunzJust curious that is there any existing example for library api?14:14
yujunzI didn't find one.14:14
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krotscheckyujunz Not for javascript. Probably for the various client libraries like shade or libcloud14:14
yujunzOK, I'll have a look at them14:16
krotscheckSo, your overall proposal so far is to host jsdoc on a third party site.14:16
krotscheckI _think_ there's precedent for that in OpenStack. Let me doublecheck something14:17
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yujunzAnd for the layout, the default style looks good to me.14:17
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krotscheckThere's an openstack project that's hosted on readthedocs.io14:18
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krotscheckyujunz: Urm...’s server DNS address could not be found14:18
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krotscheckWow, I love the formatting on those docs.14:19
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krotscheckyujunz: Is that a statically built site that's then uploaded?14:19
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krotscheckyujunz: We should be able to host that on The only question remaining would be wether the documentation team will be unhappy if we don't follow OpenStack's formatting.14:20
yujunzJust pushed the jsdoc_build directory to github page branch14:20
krotscheckBut, well, some documentation is better than pretty documentation14:20
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yujunzWe can add openstack styling in TODO list14:21
krotscheckI agree.14:21
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krotscheckHOw's everyone else feel about this? Get jsdoc output uploaded to, worry about integration into shinx later?14:21
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vkramskikhi'm fine with it14:22
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betherlysounds good to me14:22
cardeoisYeah me too, and I really like the jsdoc style14:22
krotscheck#agreed Keep jsdoc output unintegrated from sphinx for the moment, get uploaded with the rest of our docs.14:22
krotscheckyujunz: Do you have a patch that demonstrates how that documentation is built? I can get it integrated into our usual doc build.14:23
yujunz`npm run jsdoc`14:23
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krotscheckOh, I didn't see that patch!14:24
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yujunzI'm sure you have +2'ed it14:24
krotscheckAhh, betherly approved that one .14:24
krotscheckOk, cool.14:25
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krotscheck#action krotscheck get jsdoc building added to our docs build14:25
krotscheckCool, does anyone else have questions on this topic before we move on?14:25
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krotscheck#topic bindep14:26
*** openstack changes topic to "bindep (Meeting topic: javascript)"14:26
krotscheckStill a few outstanding patches, see
krotscheckOnly the ones that are specificiall js-* are relevant to us14:26
krotscheck#topic Keystone Development progress14:27
*** openstack changes topic to "Keystone Development progress (Meeting topic: javascript)"14:27
* krotscheck is making slow, but solid progress14:27
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krotscheckI'm currently working on the versions() resource, which will hopefully provide a pattern for other resources.14:27
krotscheckAlso, I discovered that ES6 has string variable replacement14:28
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msmolsorry krotscheck, I was on vacation until yesterday so I haven't been keeping up with reviews, of which I saw this morning there are a few14:28
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krotscheckmsmol: Vacation is more important than Javascript14:28
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krotscheckmsmol: The real discussion about what I'm doing is the next topic.14:28
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krotscheckMy current goal is to create a series fo methods: versions(), version(), serviceEndpoint(), and catalog(), which will take us from Logging in all the way to "We know what's running on this cloud"14:29
krotscheckSome of those will be cached promsies, since it doesn't really make sense to run the request more than once.14:29
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krotscheckMy current hope is to get all that done by the end of this week.14:30
* krotscheck is hoping things will get easier as he builds up a body of experience and copy/pasteable code :)14:30
krotscheckAny questions?14:31
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vkramskikhcan't wait to see how it will look like :)14:31
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betherlyvkramskikh: ++14:32
cardeoisNo question, reviewing the first steps right now14:32
krotscheckCoolio, moving on14:32
krotscheck#topic Method promise response signature14:32
*** openstack changes topic to "Method promise response signature (Meeting topic: javascript)"14:32
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krotscheckOk, so this is a messy one.14:32
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krotscheck99% of requests will likely only care about the json() decoded response.14:33
krotscheckIn some cases (as with errors or responses with header metadata) more of the request should be accessible.14:33
krotscheckAngular introduced $q in order to create a then((body, response) => {} ) signature (which @Krotscheck has found useful).14:33
krotscheckHow can/should we handle this?14:33
krotscheckI've come up with three options.14:33
krotscheckWait, four.14:33
krotscheckmethod() returns json, method.raw() returns raw response14:33
krotscheckproblem-> Can't grab the header when a response is unexpected14:33
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vkramskikh"Can't grab the header when a response is unexpected" - could you please elaborate?14:33
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vkramskikhwhat is an unexpected response?14:34
krotscheckSo, fetch() will trigger a .then() on a 3xx, 4xx, or 5xx.14:34
krotscheckinstead of a catch()14:34
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krotscheckSo you make a request, and get a 401 response.14:35
krotscheckThat requires checking the WWW-Authenticate header.14:35
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krotscheckBut since we automatically decode the json() content, the client has no idea that they've received an error response.14:35
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krotscheck(i.e. what if your keystone token expires)14:35
vkramskikhprobably fail callbacks should always get raw response, though this needs to be thinked through14:36
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cardeoiswhat about `method()` returning json + status code would that help?14:37
msmoldoesn't fetch have response.ok to check that the status code is < 30014:37
krotscheckWell, that's option two.14:37
vkramskikhor porbably our new http abstraction should treat 3xx-5xx as errors14:37
krotscheckmethod() returns { body, response }, permitting destructuring ( then({body, response}) => {} )14:37
krotscheckOr (body,status, headers}, etc14:37
cardeoisbody being json object?14:38
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krotscheckvkramskikh: If we do that, then we have to consider the difference between a thrown exception and an error response.14:38
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krotscheckcardeois: Yeah, basically. Return a json structure that's consistent (enforced inside HTTP)14:38
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krotscheckThe third option is "Do what angular did, introduce Q and use q.spread() internally."14:39
* krotscheck played around with that one, it ended up a bit fiddly.14:39
krotscheckAnd the last is the "Do nothing" action, Just return the raw response instance, let each developer invoke `return response.json()`14:39
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krotscheckSo the cirst question I have is: Should we do anything?14:39
vkramskikhI propose to always return raw response for keystone and see how it goes14:40
msmolI am in favor of not introducing Q14:40
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* krotscheck agrees with msmol 14:40
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krotscheckDoes anyone like the idea of introducing Q?14:41
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vkramskikh+1 for not introducing q approach, it will be incompatible with await/async which are stage 4 since july14:41
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krotscheckThat's three against Q, let's just drop that option.14:41
krotscheckWe have one in favor of not making any changes.14:41
cardeoisI'm not familiar with Q so I don't know if it' s a good idea. I don't like returning raw response where developper have to invoke `response.json`. I'm more in favor of handling `3xx - 5xx` as errors14:42
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* krotscheck is being assaulted by an angry toddler, afk for a sec.14:43
cardeois(and always return a json object). On a second choice I'm still ok if we handle all responses as a `then` but still to the json decoding, I think we can safely assume response will always be json14:43
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cardeoisFinally, in a future development it would be nice to introduce autoreconnect if your token expired, so I guess we'll have to do some logic and catch those authentication errors14:44
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krotscheckcardeois: That second choice I'm not a huge fan of, since we lose the HTTP resposne status context.14:45
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vkramskikhi believe there should be an action item for everyone to think about the approach and propose something on the next meeting - I believe we won't decide anything today14:45
krotscheckI feel that it comes down to: Should we do a convenience response.json() for the user? If so, we should probably return a destructurable json object with both the body and the raw response.14:46
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vkramskikhthis is crucial decision and needs to be thinked through thoroughly14:46
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krotscheckNot having a decision in place makes developing the keystone api a bit tricky.14:46
krotscheckBut I can go down one path and modify patches as I go.14:46
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cardeoisyes I agree to do some homework, but as I'm not very familiar with the API can anyone give some usecases we want to cover?14:47
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vkramskikhI think we should make json decoding and treat 3xx-5xx as an error for the user14:47
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cardeoisAnd I'm fine with that krotscheck, start with what you think is best, and we'll modify once we took a decision14:47
krotscheckAlright, let's table this and have everyone think about it this week.14:48
krotscheck#action Everyone brainstorm method promise response signatures.14:48
krotscheckMoving on14:48
krotscheckOpen discussion!14:48
krotscheck#topic Open Discussion14:48
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: javascript)"14:48
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krotscheckSo, there is a large but not absolute chance that my contributions to openstack will be severely limited starting in september.14:48
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krotscheckAs such, I'd like to discuss potential contributor recruitment, elevation of new cores, and future plans for the SDK14:49
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krotscheckDoes anyone have any ideas?14:50
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cardeoisOn our team we "could" have 2 more contributors, we definitely have to check with them, but they "could" help contribute build some code14:51
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larainemakrotscheck, I am sorry no updates this week for glance api, I am still on travel this week and next week and have no time to work on it14:51
krotschecklarainema: thanks for the update, have fun traveling!14:52
betherlyI think it would be good to have on the agenda at some point a discussion of the purpose of this team and the work we are doing so questions can be asked re the docs and people can feel included more to start contributing?14:52
krotscheckgood call, betherly14:53
krotscheckcardeois Thatd be 20% time, right?14:53
betherlyalso, docs are up for eslint-config-openstack
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msmolkrotscheck: yes, 20%14:53
krotscheck#action Agenda for next meeting: team purpose and scope.14:54
betherlywhen we decide when we plan to have an agenda item dedicated to education and questions we could promote that with all our connections and use it as an outreach thing14:54
krotscheck5 minute warning14:54
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krotscheckGood idea :)14:55
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msmolhow are we (are we?) planning on handling persistence? if our lib is used in the browser, is it up to our users to store token in local storage (meaning we need to be able to instantiate client with an existing token), or do we need a re authentication every time?14:56
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krotscheckbetherly: I thing that might need to be fleshed out  a bit more, could you do that?14:57
vkramskikhmsmol: I think it should be up to the user14:57
krotscheckmsmol: In the past, ive created cached promises.14:57
betherlykrotscheck: what are you referring to?14:58
krotscheckbetherly: outreach education.14:58
* krotscheck is typing one handed14:58
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krotscheckOk, le'ts add that to the agenda for enxt week.14:58
krotscheck#action token persistence added to next week's agenda14:59
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krotscheckWe're out of time.14:59
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msmolhave a nice week everyone14:59
krotscheck#action Outreach education on next week's agenda14:59
krotscheckThanks everyoen!14:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"14:59
openstackMeeting ended Wed Aug 17 14:59:55 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)14:59
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openstackMinutes (text):
SotKAnyone here for the storyboard meeting?15:00
ZaraI AM15:00
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SotK#startmeeting storyboard15:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Aug 17 15:00:27 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is SotK. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storyboard)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'storyboard'15:00
SotK#link Agenda
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SotK#topic Announcements15:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: storyboard)"15:01
SotKWe have Gerrit integration!15:01
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Zara:D merged on, anyway!15:01
SotKthanks to the various folk behind that :)15:01
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ZaraI'm putting off making a #success announcement until it's turned on for projects15:02
Zarafungi has volunteered to switch it on,
Zaraso thanks, fungi! :D15:02
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Zarathen we will take over the worl-- I mean, then gerrit will update stories15:03
SotKand it will be wonderful!15:03
fungiyep, maybe later today. we'll see how far i manage to unroll my todo list15:04
SotKwoo, thanks fungi15:04
Zarahaha, yeah, i gather there were wiki fires earlier :S15:04
Zarathanks for fixing that15:04
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SotKI think that is it for announcements/urgent things15:05
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SotK#topic In Progress Work15:07
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SotKZara: you are first on the agenda :)15:07
Zaraoh no!15:07
Zarahaha, okay, so the page to view all boards is merged15:07
Zaraand you can search boards and worklists by tasks they contain15:07
Zaratasks and stories15:07
Zarasearching boards by title should work, but doesn't.15:07
ZaraANYWAY. it's now easier to find them15:07
Zara(hi betherly!)15:07
SotKah, I was going to send a patch to fix that15:07
Zaraoooh, brilliant15:07
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Zarayeah, that'll make it 9000x stronger15:07
*** openstack changes topic to "In Progress Work (Meeting topic: storyboard)"15:07
Zaraonce we have gerrit things turned on, I'll let people know on the list, because that way I can demo an automatic board in action15:08
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ZaraI try only to announce big things so we don't spam.15:09
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SotKthat seems sensible15:09
Zarahopefully that will be interesting to folks. :D15:09
Zarathat's all from me on that15:09
SotKI sent patches for an events timeline for worklists and boards15:09
SotKI also sent patches for notifications about worklists you're subscribed to15:10
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SotKsaid notifications are off-by-default, because of their potential to be more annoying than useful15:10
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ZaraI started reviewing the first patch in the timeline events series15:10
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Zarafound it gave an error. it's been reworked but is still giving hte same error15:11
Zarait doesn't break anything15:11
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Zaraa smart person would already have the paste open in a tab so they could link it, gah15:11
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Zarait's in the #storyboard irc logs15:11
Zaraanyway, that's where that's at on my side; I can continue checking it or wait15:12
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SotKhm, same error in the same place? :(15:12
Zaraseems like, it's for the same actions15:13
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Zarathat's a few different actions15:13
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Zaraon the most recent version of the patch. maybe best to come back to it in-channel15:14
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SotKanything else in progress?15:16
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Zaramatthewbodkin has just merged a patch to fix the storyboard developer docs15:16
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ZaraI'm not sure if he's in this channel15:16
Zarahey there! :D thanks for the docs fix!15:17
matthewbodkinIt's fine, nice thing to start off with :)15:17
SotKthanks :)15:17
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SotKhopefully our docs finally work when followed now15:18
Zarawe say that every time :)15:18
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matthewbodkinYe let's hope15:19
Zara:) I don't have anything else listed as in-progress; I'm on review-duty for a bit15:20
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SotKmy next thing is to unblock the complex priorities patch, once I've fixed the events timeline15:20
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SotKanything else?15:20
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Zararealised we forgot to announce15:21
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Zarawe had a fantastical web development meetup this week, thanks everyone!15:21
Zarathere was lots of haribo15:21
matthewbodkinand cake15:21
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Zaramain things to come out of that were  that we need to sort out eslint things and mobile view things; actual timeline for that still mysterious15:22
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Zaramatthew is looking at a bugfix for the sidebar15:23
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Zaraso at some point we should plan out eslint upgradeness15:24
Zararight that's actually all from me there15:24
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SotKlast call for anything else?15:25
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SotK#topic Removing incubated oslo code15:26
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Zara:) so this came up in last night's TC meeting, as a planned goal for Ocata15:27
Zarathe repos for the storyboard api and the python-storyboardclient are affected15:27
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Zara(I kind of wish the goals were lodged *in* storyboard since I'd've noticed it way sooner, but affected projects are scattered across trackers atm, so it's not realistic to ask anyone to use a specific one)15:28
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SotKI guess the most-work part of this will be the client15:29
Zarathere are more affected things in storyboard15:29
Zarabut I don't know how wide-ranging those things are15:29
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SotKwell, the client uses oslo's deprecated apiclient thing15:29
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SotKI assume it has a replacement, but I am expecting to have to rework a bunch of things15:30
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Zarayup :( I think the best time to look at it will be sometime after I've finished reviewing events timeline things and am looking again at PUTs for worklists and boards15:31
Zara(and in the gaps, but that's how I intend to prioritise)15:31
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SotKseems sensible to me15:32
Zaraa side-effect is that many other projects use that apiclient15:32
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Zaraso we could be in a good position to help out there.15:33
Zaraalternatively, if it takes ages to get to it, we'll know where to find help...15:33
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SotKheh :)15:35
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SotKin the gaps is likely to be the best available time to look at extracting the other stuff from storyboard too I think15:35
ZaraI think this goal is planned to be done by the Ocata release, so it's not like we need it tomorrow15:36
Zarabut in practice15:36
Zarait's easier to do it while looking at related things15:36
Zaraand I'd rather not worry about it15:36
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SotKAny other opinions on this stuff?15:38
Zaranot from me15:38
Zaraassume it's loosely assigned to me, I guess15:38
SotK#topic Open Discussion15:39
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Zaraoh yeah!15:40
ZaraI have travel confirmation for barcelona15:40
SotKme too15:41
Zaraso we should start thinking about summit things15:41
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Zarawell, we probably should have done that a while ago15:41
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Zarathough what we do depends a bit on where things are up to15:43
Zarare: migration15:43
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Zaraif we have a list of stakeholders, some f2f time could be very helpful for establishing requirements; easier to see demo workflows in person and to ensure we understand things15:44
Zaraif we have a list of requirements, hack sessions are more useful15:44
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Zaraand I guess a status report should be handy either way15:45
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Zaraperhaps we're best sketching out a plan for identifying stakeholders.15:46
Zarathough I'm just thinking aloud now15:47
SotKyep, I imagine a status report of some kind will be useful15:47
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persiaTo take advantage of physical presence, I'd strongly suggest hack sessions, inviting the stakeholders (identified pre-summit) to attend for discussion/review of previously described expectations.15:48
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SotKthat sounds like a sensible idea to me15:50
Zaraokay, shall we have 1) identify stakeholders and 2) get requirements from them as goals to meet before summit?15:50
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persiaAside from my preference for the word "expectations" to "requirements", that sounds ideal to me.15:51
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SotK+1 for expectations15:51
persia(where "requirements" are derived from "expectations" after reviewing multiple potentially conflicting expectations to find a way to map all desired workflows, etc.)15:51
Zaraokay, cool, that's fine15:51
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Zaranow for the hard part xD15:52
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SotKI suspect that will take longer than our remaining time15:54
Zarayeah, things are still hazy in my head so that's all from me for now15:54
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SotKAnything else?15:57
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SotKwell then, thanks everyone for your time :)15:57
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"15:57
openstackMeeting ended Wed Aug 17 15:57:44 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:57
openstackMinutes (text):
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smcginnis#startmeeting Cinder16:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Aug 17 16:00:09 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is smcginnis. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Cinder)"16:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'cinder'16:00
smcginnisping dulek duncant eharney geguileo winston-d e0ne jungleboyj jgriffith thingee smcginnis hemna xyang1 tbarron scottda erlon rhedlind jbernard _alastor_ bluex vincent_hou kmartin patrickeast sheel dongwenjuan JaniceLee cFouts Thelo vivekd adrianofr mtanino yuriy_n17 karlamrhein diablo_rojo jay.xu jgregor baumann rajinir wilson-l reduxio wanghao thrawn01 chris_morrell stevemar watanabe.isao,tommylike.hu16:00
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smcginnisHey everyone16:00
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geguileoHi! o/16:00
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jgregorHello :)16:00
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smcginnis#topic Announcements16:01
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smcginnis#link Newton release schedule16:01
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smcginnisNext week is the non-client library release deadline.16:01
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smcginnisAKA os-brick16:01
hemnaI thought it was friday?16:01
smcginnis#link Open os-brick reviews16:01
smcginnishemna: Yeah, looks like we have through next week, so a few more days.16:02
scottdaDo we a list of os-brick priorities?16:02
smcginnisIf anyone has anything critical outstanding there, let me know.16:02
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hemnaok phew16:02
smcginnisNot really.16:02
diablo_rojohemna: Are you trying to get the patch you sent me yeaterday in?16:03
hemnaI put up the patch to remove the locks in iSCSI and FC16:03
smcginnisThe c-vol/n-cpu locking issue is kind of a high priority.16:03
hemnaseems like most of the CI's are passing16:03
jgriffithhemna: go figure :)16:03
smcginnishemna: I don't think that's actually what we want, but we'll see.16:03
DuncanTAn awful lot of unanswered -1s on brick patches there16:03
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hemnathat needs to be rally tested16:03
jgriffithhemna: the only ones I think should be affected are Pure, Dell and 3Par16:03
hemnajgriffith, yah16:03
jgriffithMaybe others I don't know about but those are the main ones16:03
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smcginnishemna: This is actually the approach I think they were looking for:
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* patrickeast wanders in late16:04
jgriffithshared target devices16:04
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smcginnisBut definitely need lot's of rally testing.16:04
hemnasmcginnis, well we also discussed removing the locks entirely16:04
smcginnisjgriffith: Yeah, I think so too.16:04
patrickeastjgriffith: yep16:04
patrickeasthemna: that approach scares me a bit16:04
smcginnishemna: Yeah, at the time we talked about removing the locks and just having retries, but I think the locks are valid for some scenarios.16:04
hemnapatrickeast, me too.  there are obvious race conditions in the code16:05
xyang1jgriffith: I think we have that too16:05
hemnaand the locks were in there to help prevent that, but the locks aren't shared.....16:05
jgriffithI'm still not sure I agree with the statement that we need them... but I don't want to derail meeting :)16:05
hemnaretries....may help, but also cause other problems16:05
smcginnisAnyway, just be aware that deadline is coming up quick.16:05
hemnaso it's a crap shoot.   I'd like to get all of this rally tested IMHO16:05
smcginnis#topic Moving the failing jenkins tests to check-experimental until they pass16:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Moving the failing jenkins tests to check-experimental until they pass (Meeting topic: Cinder)"16:05
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patrickeastjgriffith: yea i don't think we need them for all platforms, situations, deployment configs, etc 100% agree there16:05
patrickeastjgriffith: but we do for some of em16:05
jgriffithboris-42: you around ^^ :)16:05
smcginnisDuncanT: Was this new this week, or left over from last week?16:05
DuncanTLeft over form last week, we ran out of time16:06
smcginnisOh, OK. So we still need to discuss it then.16:06
jgriffithhemna: I'll bet boris-42 would be happy to help with rally tests if you want/need16:06
e0nejgriffith: who sad rally?16:06
DuncanTIt's a pretty straight-forward thing, I hope16:06
jgriffithoh yeah... e0ne is another potential victim... err candidate :)16:07
e0nejgriffith, hemna: please, ping me if you need any kind of help with rally16:07
hemnajgriffith, yah, I kinda want to create a rally gate test for brick as well16:07
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DuncanTWe currently approve new jenkins jobs with no evidence of them passing, then they slowly get fixed up16:07
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hemnaI'm just busy training my replacement this week.16:07
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jgriffiththaks e0ne16:07
DuncanTIt means there's no way of knowing which of the none-voting jobs you should pay any attention to16:07
smcginnisDuncanT: Won't hiding them in experimental just make it worse (playing devil's advocate)16:07
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jgriffithhemna: OMG, not even going to try and respond16:08
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e0nejgriffith, hemna: I'm ready to help with rally job if needed16:08
smcginnisDuncanT: Still there?16:08
DuncanTsmcginnis: Until they pass at all? No, I don't think so. It isn't like most people work on fixing them, just a small group, who can run "check experimental" easily enough until the job passes at least once16:08
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DuncanTsmcginnis: Sorry, injured finger, slow typing16:09
smcginnisDuncanT: Do you have a list of jobs you'd like to move.16:09
smcginnisDuncanT: Sorry. :)16:09
DuncanTsmcginnis: I think they're all passing right now, but there were a few a week and a half ago16:09
diablo_rojoDuncanT: Swing dancing injury?16:09
hemnae0ne, ok thanks man.16:10
smcginnisDuncanT: So just looking for general consensus that we should do that if/when we get another batch of failing ones?16:10
DuncanTgate-tempest-dsvm-neutron-identity-v3-only-full-nv I haven't seen passing, but I haven't checked in carefully16:10
smcginnisDuncanT: I think that's fair. If it's being worked on, would be good to get working in experimental before polluting our normal results.16:10
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DuncanTsmcginnis: I'm asking so that there's a consensious behind me if I go asking on the infra review as to whether the jobs actually work yet16:10
smcginnispatrickeast: Didn't you have a patch for that identity v3 issue?16:10
scottdaIf a test is failing for some great length of time, that sounds ok. But merging patches into infra repos can be a lengthy process.16:11
DuncanTsmcginnis: I'd like to be able to say we discussed it before I go off complaining16:11
e0nesmcginnis, DuncanT: +1 on moving such jobs to experimental queue16:11
patrickeastsmcginnis: i dont think so16:11
smcginnisDuncanT: +1 from me as well.16:11
smcginnispatrickeast: OK, thought I saw something.16:11
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patrickeastsmcginnis: haha, i'll have to check... i've got a bunch of random crap up for review16:11
jungleboyjDuncanT: I think that makes sense.16:11
DuncanTI don't promise to catch them all, but I'd like to change the culture of randomly failing tests if I can16:12
smcginnisGotta catch em all.16:12
hemnaDuncanT, I think there are many of those :(16:12
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jungleboyjsmcginnis: +216:12
diablo_rojosmcginnis: :)16:12
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smcginnisDuncanT: Yeah, make sense. You've got backing on it if you do.16:12
DuncanTI've also been gently poking 3rd party CI folks who've been failing a lot - netapp apparently have a plan in place to improve theirs for example16:12
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DuncanTsmcginnis: Thanks. I'm done with this subject then16:13
smcginnisDuncanT: Thanks!16:13
smcginnis#topic Cinderclient issues to discuss16:13
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smcginnisscottda: Hey16:13
scottdaSo, Deadline to release is R-5 Aug29-Sep0216:13
hemnaDuncanT, we got the wiki names in the drivers now16:13
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bswartzDuncanT: netapp has plans to invest a lot in making CI more reliable16:13
DuncanThemna: Yup, I've started playing with tooling around that :-)16:14
scottdaIt'd be especially good to have client CLI support for features that are already in the server...16:14
DuncanTbswartz: Great to hear. Anything that can be shared in terms of lessons learnt would be good to hear too16:14
scottdaso perhaps authors of the server code can help us get the client parts in.16:14
patrickeastscottda: +116:14
smcginnisRelated to that...16:14
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e0nesmcginnis: thanks:)16:15
smcginnisHuh, thet're all merged now though. :)16:15
DuncanTOne thing that would be good for client reviews is some evidence of testing... since tempest doesn't cover any of these new calls16:15
scottdaNot much in brick-cinderclient that hasn't merged...16:15
e0neDuncanT: we could require functional tests16:15
DuncanTI've been holding off on client reviews because I don't currently have time to test them16:15
scottdaYeah, good to test as well as review client16:15
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bswartzDuncanT: right now we suspect that we're overloading our hardware with too many jobs executing in parallel16:16
DuncanTe0ne: Not sure if that's practical, but would be nice16:16
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DuncanTbswartz: Servers or arrays?16:16
bswartz1 array, 40 jobs16:16
DuncanTbswartz: Got you. Thanks.16:16
scottdaback to cinderclient?16:17
e0neDuncanT: I mean that we already have a solution to get cinderclient patches tested16:17
* bswartz apologies for being offtopic16:17
e0neDuncanT: but it's really low functional tests coverage for it16:17
smcginnisbswartz: :)16:17
DuncanTe0ne: Do we have a good example functional test in there yet?16:17
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smcginnisKind of related to that, would be good to get input on this:
diablo_rojoDuncanT: Good question16:18
e0neDuncanT: everything we have is here
e0neDuncanT: ther covers only CLI now:(16:18
DuncanTe0ne: I'll take a look. It would be nice to be able to point people at a small number of good examples to emulate16:18
scottdastevemar: Are you around? stevemar is working on OpenSTack Client stuff and has volunteered to keep cinder team informed on OSC stuff. And you can bug him as well .....16:19
smcginnisOh, here's the endpoint v3 I was thinking of:
e0neDuncanT: my team is working on extend functional tests. ping me if we  want to implement something faster16:19
smcginnisstevemar: Thank you for that!16:19
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DuncanTe0ne: It would be nice to have some sort of test that matched the client and server bits together16:19
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DuncanTe0ne: Getting one example up ASAP would suit my purposes well16:20
stevemarwe had sheel rana working on a blueprint to fill the holes that were in OSC16:20
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stevemarbut he's gone AWOL16:20
DuncanTe0ne: I can review it, I'm not going to be able to code it ATM16:20
stevemarluckily, huanxuan has decided to pick up the blueprint! :)16:20
e0neDuncanT: ok. I'll try to get patch proposed asap16:20
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DuncanTe0ne: Much appreciated16:21
stevemaryou can see hes' been pumping out OSC patches for volume support:
diablo_rojoOur guys that were working on it for a while got pulled off too.16:21
stevemarhis latest patches could use some eyes from cinder folks: and since they are not as straight forward16:21
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stevemarscottda: smcginnis i'll try to bring issues we're having to the meeting here, but otherwise i'm hoping i have time to create a compatibility matrix for cinderclient vs osc16:22
scottdastevemar: Thanks for that. I find the OSC is not really on my radar screen, and probably true for most of us..16:22
stevemarscottda: it's the bees knees!16:22
smcginnisstevemar: That would be hugely useful.16:22
stevemarsmcginnis: right!16:22
jungleboyjstevemar: That would be great!16:22
jungleboyjSo we have an idea where we are at and what needs to be done.16:23
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stevemari'll mention the osc and the cinder CLI command16:23
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stevemarwe've diverted in some ways, hopefully for the better16:23
diablo_rojosmcginnis: Agreed16:23
hemnafwiw, I had to stop using osc from git recently due to failures to configure keystone.  :(16:23
stevemarhemna: that's cruddy16:24
stevemarhemna: file a bug in osc, we can help out16:24
stevemarwe've heard good feedback from a UX perspective16:24
hemnastevemar, ok will do.  it was easy to reproduce.  devstack wouldn't come up16:24
e0necan we just implement OSC plugin inside cinderclient and not re-implement all things in OSC?16:24
e0nethis plugin should be mandatory16:24
stevemare0ne: swift asked the same thing16:24
DuncanTe0ne: I asked that too :-)16:25
stevemare0ne: and i think it's feasible, it's just code after all16:25
scottdaYeah, we discussed at the summit..16:25
stevemarjust depends on where it lives16:25
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e0nestevemar, DuncanT:  we discussed it and I was not able to try implement it :(16:25
DuncanTOne downside is that it risks missing the OS team's holistic view and standardisation of terminology16:25
e0nestevemar: I like how heatclient implemented OSC plugin16:26
smcginnisDuncanT: Probably the biggest risk.16:26
DuncanTAKA renaming metadata and breaking all the docs16:26
e0neall code is inside heatclient repo16:26
stevemarDuncanT: righto!16:26
stevemare0ne: yes, all our plugins (there are many!) have code in-tree except for the big 6 services (identity, compute, volume, image, object, network) -- we have those in osc16:26
DuncanTAt while point OS becomes a thing wrapper around a bunch of heavily deseparate clients, and therefore entirely pointless16:26
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stevemarnot sure i follow that one16:27
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e0neDuncanT: OSC is only for CLI16:28
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stevemare0ne: to answer your question -- i think its possible, but we risk losing consistency16:28
stevemare0ne: but you'd be inheriting a bunch of our stuff, so maybe y'all can just follow the established pattern16:28
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DuncanTe0ne: Yes, but unless terminology within the CLI is standardised, there's no point adding the extra layer of having a 'single' CLI16:28
e0neDuncanT:  +116:28
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e0nestevemar: we can try to do it if somebody has a time for this effort16:29
DuncanTstevemar: How are you avoiding such terminology fragmentation now?16:29
e0nestevemar: plugin will help implement CLI faster16:29
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stevemare0ne: yeah, it would involve some poking around, but it would look a lot like how heat client did it16:29
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stevemarDuncanT: we publish dev guides in osc docs16:30
e0nestevemar: it's better than having to CLIs, IMO16:30
DuncanTstevemar: But are the various plugins actually following it?16:30
smcginnisscottda: Maybe we should move on to the last subtopic?16:30
erlonstevemar: do you ahve an ideia on how much is missising in OSC to meet all functionalities already in openstack client?16:30
scottdaI'm ready.....16:31
DuncanTstevemar: Is there anyway to extract the command tree, including all the plugins?16:31
stevemarDuncanT: i hope so, i'll admit we can't keep up with all the reviews, but i hope they are copying established patterns16:31
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scottdaSo, patch is up to deprecate support for 'cinder endpoints' #link
stevemarerlon: i mentioned i'll get that info in a week or so16:31
stevemarwe can totally jump to another topic, i don't want to hold the bus up16:31
erlonstevemar: mhm, I think we need to wait to see if is worth to work in the plugin then16:32
smcginnisscottda: So the background on that is it was carried over from nova and it doesn't quite fit. But do we care enough to clean it up now.16:32
smcginnisscottda: Is that the jist of it?16:32
smcginnis#link Keystone v3 support bug16:32
scottdaand further complicated with this bug:
openstackLaunchpad bug 1614104 in Cinder "Cinder endpoints throws error in Keystone V3" [Undecided,New] - Assigned to Jay Conroy (jayconroy)16:32
scottdaSo, we'd want to fix that ^^ if we continue to support cinder endpoint.16:33
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e0newe can fix it in any case16:33
smcginnisscottda: We probably would need to fix it anyway, right. We'd have to deprecate the command so it will need to stick around a little while anyway.16:33
e0nedeprecated!=not working16:33
scottdayes, deprecation will take time, so we'll end up fixing that bug.16:33
DuncanTe0ne: +1 - it's a bug, we should fix it if we can16:33
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scottdaOK, forget about the bug. Do we want to deprecate that command?16:34
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smcginnisBut good point in that we are needing to devote time and resources to something that doesn't really need to be there.16:34
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stevemarsmcginnis: hmm, i thought i fixed that bug...
openstackLaunchpad bug 1608166 in python-cinderclient "cinder list endpoints results in parsing error" [Undecided,Fix released] - Assigned to Steve Martinelli (stevemar)16:34
smcginnisI'm actually in favor of deprecation/removal.16:34
DuncanTHas anybody seen a script that actually uses it? I've found one in our internal tools dump I've got, but it was a one-shot thing and can be trivally updated16:34
smcginnisstevemar: Yeah, seemed like we already did something there. SOmething must have snuck in and broke it again or it's slightly different.16:34
stevemarsmcginnis: funky16:35
smcginnisDuncanT: Yeah, should be trivial to change.16:35
DuncanTDo we need functional tests for OSClient as well?16:35
smcginnisJust switch everything over to osc, right stevemar? :)16:35
stevemarDuncanT: those already exist in osc's tree16:35
jungleboyjsmcginnis: Not so fast!  :-)16:35
smcginnisjungleboyj: :)16:35
stevemarsmcginnis: you wouldn't have to deal with all these bugs :P16:35
stevemarnova had the same command did deprecate it as well16:36
smcginnisSo I guess the question on the table is deprecate or keep maintaining the endpoint command.16:36
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stevemarfor the same reasons16:36
DuncanTstevemar: Do they run against the cinder side changes though?16:36
scottdaProbably not a big deal to deprecate. Just wanted to ask for feedback...We said we weren't ready to depricate the cinderclient. But this is a bit different.16:36
stevemarscottda: yerp16:36
e0nesmcginnis: fix and deprecate it16:36
DuncanTsmcginnis: I've no objection to deprecating it16:36
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jungleboyjSounds like the way to go ... especially if Nova has done that.16:37
smcginnisscottda: Yeah, I see that as completely different. I don't want to deprecate the cinder client any time soon, but an individual command that doesn't make sense, I'm all for deprecation.16:37
jungleboyjsmcginnis: ++16:37
e0nesmcginnis: +116:37
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scottdaok. It was the cinderclient deprecation that caused me to put on the breaks. I'll remove -1 and others can review, etc.16:37
smcginnisGreat, no major objections. Let's get it marked deprecated.16:37
scottdaI'm done. Thanks.16:38
smcginnisThanks scottda16:38
smcginnisAnd now on to the fun stuff...16:38
smcginnis#topic Driver deprecation policy16:38
*** openstack changes topic to "Driver deprecation policy (Meeting topic: Cinder)"16:38
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smcginnis#link ML Thread16:38
* jungleboyj waits for fireworks16:38
e0nesmcginnis: I like hemna's proposal16:38
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stevemarthanks all!16:39
smcginnisMy thoughts if anyone is interested:
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smcginnisI do like the idea of marking unsupported.16:39
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smcginnisThe question is whether that still breaks policy if we disable those by default.16:40
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smcginnisSince upgrades will break without making config changes.16:40
e0nesmcginnis: let's change the policy16:40
jgriffithe0ne: which one?16:40
DuncanTGiven that they're likely to break anyway, I think explicitly calling them out is good16:40
e0nejgriffith: does it matter?16:40
jgriffithwait... let's back up a second :)16:40
DuncanTI still support removal - backporting is easy enough for a savy deployer, and a non-savy deployer would be better off migrating before upgrade16:41
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jgriffithSo there's a LOT of stuff in that thread and even a LOT of stuff in just Sean's posting16:41
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jungleboyjsmcginnis: I just used the threat of removal to get exec attention.  :-)16:41
jgriffithI think Sean touched on a version of each proposal that's feasible16:41
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jgriffithin his ML post16:41
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jgriffithAfter an awful lot of thought and consideration I felt that the third option while not the one with the most teeth was the most reasonable16:42
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jgriffithie a new tag that marks the status of each driver16:42
jgriffithI know a number of folks want the power of removal, and that makes sense... I totally get it and it's the largest stick you can have16:42
jgriffithBut it's also a pretty destructive stick the more I think about it... and not just for the driver being removed16:43
jungleboyjjgriffith: Can we combine that with deprecation?16:43
smcginnisjgriffith: And I guess to expand on that, tag it and also mark as deprecated so if they don't turn around we actually can remove them.16:43
smcginnisjungleboyj: jinx16:43
jgriffithjungleboyj: yes, and smcginnis yes :)16:43
jungleboyjsmcginnis: :-)16:43
jgriffithwould've been funny if I answered each of you differently :)16:43
smcginnisjgriffith: Wouldn't have been the first time. :P16:44
jungleboyjI think it is very important that we don't make it appear that Cinder doesn't follow deprecation policy.16:44
DuncanTjgriffith: Is leaving a deployer unable to access their volumes because the drive ris broken actually better?16:44
jgriffithDuncanT: you don't know that it's broken though16:44
jungleboyjI also think we need to stick to our guns that unmaintained drivers can't stay in.16:44
jgriffithDuncanT: and in some cases... yeah, it kinda is16:44
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jgriffithIMO anyway16:44
patrickeastDuncanT: with the tag they would presumably get a warning that says "this driver is probably broken"16:44
patrickeastso it would at least give a clue16:45
jgriffithAs a consumer/operator you chose poorly.. there are consequences16:45
jungleboyjSo, kind-of like we are doing with XIV/DS8k right now we have said they need to opensource and have given them a grace period.16:45
DuncanTpatrickeast: Not until after they've upgraded, and it's a bit late by then16:45
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jgriffithbut at the same time, we as an OpenStack community aren't going to rip the rug out from under your16:45
jungleboyjThey are 'deprecated ' right now.  Will be removed in the next release if the problem isn't resolved.16:45
patrickeastDuncanT: true, maybe we document the list of drivers and their status for each release so its not a suprise16:45
smcginnisSo mark as unsupported, check and log a huge warning when it's loaded, mark as deprecated, and if they don't start working on things remove it in the next release.16:45
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jungleboyjsmcginnis: I think that is the best of both worlds.16:46
smcginnisEasier on deployers who are already in an unfortunate situation that have a cloud running on deadbeat storage.16:46
diablo_rojosmcginnis: That sounds reasonable16:46
hemnacheck out that patch and try it out.16:46
jgriffithpatrickeast: DuncanT the documentation of drivers and status was something we're supposed to be doing anyway :)16:46
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patrickeastjgriffith: heh yea, supposed to16:46
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jgriffithpatrickeast: :)16:46
DuncanTpatrickeast: A big stonking list of 'possibly broken, really, upgrading your cinder version might eat all your data' warning in the release notes for sure16:46
smcginnishemna: So the only difference from what we discussed before I think is not needing to edit the config to say to run it anyway.16:46
jgriffithDuncanT: I think that might be a little dramatic in reality16:47
hemnawell, I do like forcing admins to do that to re-enable16:47
DuncanTjgriffith: Good.16:47
smcginnisFor non-compliant drivers, rather than a removal patch, we put up a patch to add the flag to their driver and mark it deprecated.16:47
DuncanTjgriffith: Actually data-loss is really dramatic, every time16:47
smcginnishemna: Yeah, but then we have the "grenade" issues of broken upgrades.16:47
jgriffithDuncanT: if you as an operator are aware of the tag, and note that it's not in the state it should be at release... then I would hope you'd do some testing16:47
jgriffithDuncanT: but we're not going to *eat* volumes off the back end16:48
smcginnisnom nom16:48
hemnasmcginnis, it won't affect the grenade tests unless we mark LVM as unsupported :)16:48
jgriffithDuncanT: there's a difference between data LOSS and data UNAVAILABLE16:48
DuncanTjgriffith: Making the tag obvious helps a lot, both the operation and the stick that it represents16:48
flip214well, if they're tasty with a little cheese?16:48
DuncanTjgriffith: Data unavailable is still quite a big drama16:48
smcginnishemna: Well, not the actual grenade tests we run in gate, but it would break the principle that is trying to enforce.16:48
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jgriffithDuncanT: sure, but that quite frankly is between vendor and customer... or perhaps vendor, customer and distro16:49
hemnait's a grey area IMO.  we used to completely delete drivers.....16:49
* jgriffith avoids inappropriate joke about the number 316:49
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smcginnishemna: Right, it's completely better overall.16:49
jgriffithjungleboyj: quiet!16:49
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smcginnisI think we'd still get called out on it though, and I'd rather just set this straight and be done with it.16:49
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jungleboyjjgriffith: You don't want to be around when number 3 happens.  :-)16:49
hemnathe TC folks seemed ok with it16:49
jgriffithDuncanT: I'll raise my point again about the fact that distros are requiring a seperate qual/test process for every driver on every release anyway16:50
hemnaI dunno, if we remove that, then the stick to whack vendors becomes very.....limp.16:50
jgriffithhemna: stop that16:50
DuncanTjgriffith: They've got no choice right now, the upstream testing is pretty weak16:50
scottdahemna: nice visual16:50
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jgriffithDuncanT: BS... they have me run the EXACT same upstream tests16:50
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jungleboyjhemna: Ok with which?16:51
jgriffithDuncanT: there's nothing special or different16:51
patrickeastjgriffith: +116:51
jgriffithnot a damn thing16:51
DuncanTjgriffith: ok, the distro tests are pretty weak too then ;-)16:51
jgriffithit's just a bull shit process that causes me extra work16:51
jgriffithDuncanT: :)16:51
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jgriffithDuncanT: but that's a ridiculous argument anyway...16:51
smcginnisOK, disabling by default aside, is everyone in agreement to set a flag in the driver and mark as deprecated?16:51
jungleboyjhemna: You would be surprised the damage you can do with a limp stick.  ;-)16:51
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DuncanTjgriffith: Honestly, I don't have strong answers there, distros have a history of being a pain and requiring work... you can always choose to not be certified16:52
jgriffithDuncanT: You're saying "remove them cuz they don't run upstream tests" but then saying "upstream tests are weak and aren't good enough anyway"16:52
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jgriffithDuncanT: I don't have nice things to say on that topic so I"m going to do as I was taught as a child and say nothing about it ;)16:52
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jungleboyjsmcginnis: Yes, I think so.16:52
DuncanTjgriffith: In house, we found passing upstream tests was not a good indicator that it will actually work in a real system16:52
smcginnisjungleboyj: Thank you :)16:52
DuncanTsmcginnis: I still prefer removal, and fixing the tag16:53
jungleboyjsmcginnis: At least I thought we were.16:53
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jgriffithDuncanT: understood, but not really germain to this discussion I don't think16:53
DuncanTsmcginnis: But I'm not going to fight it16:53
jungleboyjDuncanT: I agree, but are we going to get wide spread agreement on that.16:53
patrickeastsmcginnis: i'm on board16:53
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smcginnisDuncanT: After trying to change the stable policy (and the SS that triggered) I'm hesitant to push for an openstack wide tag change.16:53
jgriffithDuncanT: don't get me wrong... I have no real problem with removal... but I do think that there are some consequences that we would have that I don't want to deal with16:53
DuncanTsmcginnis: SS can be really healthy though, things need reexamining from time to time16:54
hemnaremoval is a good stick for vendors, but it's awful for deployments.16:54
jgriffithDuncanT: like it or not the deprecation policy tag exists, and if we lose that it *could* have consequences for drivers in Cinder.16:54
jgriffithDuncanT: at least for those that don't belong to a distro16:54
smcginnisDuncanT: True. But other than a small number of supporters for our policy up to this point, I didn't get the feeling I was getting much buy in on the idea.16:55
jgriffithDuncanT: things like "we're the only driver we can guarantee will be there next release"16:55
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hemnaI think we should be punishing vendors for not supporting their drivers and give deployments and chance to get off that vendor's backend.16:55
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hemnahence the proposal I made16:55
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DuncanTjgriffith: Yeah, I guess the best bet is to follow the policy, put flashing lights in the release notes and review the tag definition in slow time16:55
DuncanThemna: +116:55
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jgriffithhemna: I think we should publish their contributions... including reviews, code submissions to core etc and show comparisons :)16:55
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flip214in the release notes16:55
hemnajgriffith, :)16:56
hemnajgriffith, +116:56
jungleboyjDuncanT: +116:56
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jungleboyjjgriffith: Rough. ;-)16:56
smcginnisOK, so if we have general agreement towards tagging the driver and deprecating it, the next question is the automatic disabling of the driver without and explicit config file setting saying to load it anyway.16:56
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hemnare: limp stick16:57
smcginnisAKA, the limp stick issue. :D16:57
jungleboyjsmcginnis: I think that firms up the stick a bit.16:57
scottdaI'm glad HR doesn't pay attention to IRC....16:57
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hemnascottda, shhh!16:58
jungleboyjscottda: Chicken.  ;-)16:58
patrickeastscottda: no worries, these logs aren't logged or anything :p16:58
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diablo_rojopatrickeast: Lol16:58
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diablo_rojoTwo min left btw16:59
diablo_rojoMake that one16:59
patrickeastsmcginnis: so i'm not sure how much that config option really buys us other than as an annoyance for deployers16:59
patrickeastsmcginnis: at the point they've upgraded and still have a bad driver, they are going to use it anyway16:59
jungleboyjsmcginnis: I think we should have it.  It will get some pressure on the vendor from customers that will be made more aware of what is going on.16:59
hemnapatrickeast, that's kinda the point really16:59
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smcginnis#link Driver tag patch16:59
hemnasince we don't remove the drivers, we don't have much of anything to really annoy the vendors to force them to comply17:00
smcginnisSince we're out of time, please comment in the review. ^^17:00
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smcginnisTimes up. Thanks everone17:00
smcginnishemna: Seriously? :)17:00
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openstackMeeting ended Wed Aug 17 17:00:36 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:00
openstackMinutes (text):
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jlvillal#startmeeting ironic_qa17:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Aug 17 17:00:42 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jlvillal. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ironic_qa)"17:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ironic_qa'17:00
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jlvillalHello everyone17:00
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jlvillalAs always the agenda is at:
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jlvillal#topic Announcements17:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: ironic_qa)"17:01
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jlvillal#info IPA post jobs are showing up on now.17:01
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jlvillalAny other announcements?17:01
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jlvillalOkay moving on then17:02
jlvillal#topic Multi-node Grenade testing of Ironic17:02
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jlvillal#info Progress is being made. Big thanks to Vasyl Saienko for all of his work on this.17:03
jlvillal#info master testing patch at:
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jlvillal#info Current status is that the SSH keys need to be propagated. A test run is in progress to see if a potential fix works.17:04
jrollnice work!17:04
jlvillal#info jlvillal and vsaienko have started doing daily sync-ups to allow each to continue work in their time zones.17:05
jlvillaljroll: Thanks17:05
jlvillalThat's all I got so far.17:05
jlvillalAny questions/comments before moving on?17:05
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clarkbyes, could you just reuse the existing test ssh key instead?17:05
jlvillalclarkb: I could investigate that. Do you have a pointer? Sounds like a good idea.17:06
clarkbthat may make the setup simpler (since we already configure ssh to allow communication among all the test nodes and for eg nova live migration)17:06
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jlvillalclarkb: Thanks!17:07
jlvillalI will check it out today17:07
jlvillalAny other questions/comments?17:07
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jlvillalMoving on17:07
jlvillal#topic 3rd Party CI presented to you by krtaylor17:07
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jlvillalkrtaylor: The floor is yours. Let me know when you are done please.17:08
krtaylorjlvillal, sure thing17:08
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krtaylorso email has been sent to systems that need to get their CI going asap or get moved out17:09
krtaylorthe stackalytics driver patch is making progress, I thought it was there, but jroll brought up a question about the wiki links17:09
jrollyeah, that's my only nit17:10
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* jroll wants to point out a thing after krtaylor is done speaking17:10
krtaylorso, I looked that over and I think it should actually be the required wiki page17:10
jrolloh? why is that?17:10
jroll(I'm fine with that, just curious)17:11
krtaylorthe ThirdPartySystems wiki17:11
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krtaylorthat makes the most sense, this is for info and contacts, and it would be consistent since all are required to have it anyway17:11
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jrollkrtaylor: some of the drivers have links to docs, so let's fix those instead I guess :)17:12
krtaylorthe only catch is for community drivers, since those are not third party, they would point to docs?17:12
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krtaylorits not clean either way17:12
krtaylorunless we require all ironic drivers to also have doc pages17:13
jroll(which we totally should)17:13
krtaylorI listed all the ThirdPartSystems links I could find in the drivers page17:14
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krtaylorjroll, so if we require docs pages (which I'm fine with) , we can stub out those that aren't there I guess17:14
* devananda fails at calendaring, comes in late ...17:15
jrollkrtaylor: yeah, I guess it depends on what driverlog is intended to do17:15
jrollif it's to list drivers, it should be docs pages17:15
jrollif it's to track CI, it should be wikis17:15
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krtaylorheh, it tries to be all things, but in this case, I think it is to just make sure they are listed in the marketplace, real useful status is tracked elsewhere in third party CI working group tools17:17
jrollok, let's make it doc pages then, if users will be seeing this in the marketplace :)17:17
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krtaylorwell I was leaning toward wiki links, but now docs make more sense, thanks for discussing17:17
krtaylorI'll make that change today (tonight)17:18
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krtaylorthe only other thing I wanted to bring up is the CI documentation patch17:18
jrollah yeah, I need to review that17:19
krtaylorI am proposing the location and outline be merged first, then we can start writing sections and spread the work a bit, hopefully17:19
jrollsounds good17:20
krtaylorI will have a section that references all the agreed wording in the spec, so this will become the requirements documentation going forward17:20
devanandakrtaylor: ++17:20
* jroll has a thing to bring up17:20
krtaylormaybe next patch after outline, if everybody is fine with that17:20
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jrollso folks have been re-thinking this approach in cinder17:21
krtaylorthats all I had, jroll?17:21
jrollit's a looong thread, so don't read it during this meeting :)17:21
krtayloryes, I saw that, some softening of the requirements17:21
jrollbut it makes me wonder if we want to rethink how we do this as well17:21
jrolleven if it's super late :(17:21
krtaylorhow about we do that when we get a patch pushed for the requirements section of the doc?17:22
jrollwe need to spin up an email thread or something, I think, a few other cores are re-considering after reading this17:22
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* jroll has been procrastinating on that17:23
krtaylorI'm fine with email thread, as long as it gets translated into patch comments at some point17:23
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jrollyeah, just needs a broader discussion17:23
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devanandajroll: would you like to summarize / discuss the change in our policy that you're envisioning?17:23
jrolldevananda: I am not envisioning things yet17:24
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jrollbut I don't want to nuke a bunch of drivers and then next cycle have the same conversation17:24
jrollya know?17:24
jrollso we should have that conversation now17:24
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krtaylorsame conversation? about new ones to nuke or ?17:25
jrollthe conversation cinder is having17:25
jroll"is this really the right way to do this"17:25
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krtaylorgotcha, yeah, we can revisit our requirements with this in mind, I don't see a problem with that17:26
devanandajroll: if you want to punt on that until everyone's had time to catch up on the cinder thread, that wfm17:26
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jrolldevananda: yeah, I'm not sure if it's changed my mind, but a couple other ironic cores said they kind of agree17:27
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jlvillalWe do have the 3rd party drivers repo. If that makes us any different from Cinder.17:27
jrolldevananda: so I want to email the list by like, friday, and have the discussion17:27
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jrolljlvillal: "we" have no such thing. a couple people in the community have that thing. it isn't official17:28
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jlvillalAh okay.17:28
krtaylorso, mjturek1 and I will get the doc outline skeleton finished this week, we could push a requirements proposal early next week and maybe clarify some sections via comments17:28
jrollyeah, sounds good17:29
krtaylordiscussion first via email17:29
krtaylorsounds like a plan17:29
mjturek1yep, sounds good17:29
krtaylorok, anything else for CI?17:29
krtaylorelse, I'll turn it back over to jlvillal17:30
jlvillalThanks krtaylor17:30
jlvillal#topic Open Discussion17:30
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: ironic_qa)"17:30
jlvillalThe floor is open17:30
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* jroll has nothing17:31
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* devananda also has nothing QA-specific right now17:31
jlvillalOkay, I think we are done.17:31
jlvillalThanks everyone!17:31
jrollthanks jlvillal17:31
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bh526r#startmeeting gluon18:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Aug 17 18:00:53 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is bh526r. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gluon)"18:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'gluon'18:00
bh526rhello guys18:01
bh526rHi Paul18:01
bh526rHi Georg18:01
bh526r#topic  Roll Call and Introduction18:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call and Introduction (Meeting topic: gluon)"18:01
bh526rHi Kamal18:01
bh526r#info Bin Hu18:01
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bh526rPlease info your attendance18:02
ALUVial#info Vincent Button18:02
kamal___#info Kamal Hussain18:02
pcarver#Paul Carver18:02
georgk#info Georg Kunz18:02
bh526r#topic Admin Update18:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Admin Update (Meeting topic: gluon)"18:03
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bh526rI don't have any admin update18:03
bh526r#info No admin update18:03
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bh526r#topic Logistics and Agenda Items for Face-to-Face on August 18 and 1918:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Logistics and Agenda Items for Face-to-Face on August 18 and 19 (Meeting topic: gluon)"18:04
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Jeffreyc42Hey guys - Jeff is here18:04
bh526rSo we are preparing for F2F tomorrow and Friday in Sunnyvale18:04
Jeffreyc42#info Jeff Collins18:04
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bh526rHi Jeff18:05
bh526rThere are about 7 persons confirmed for attendance18:05
bh526rone is "maybe"18:05
bh526rand at least 3 more for remote participation18:05
bh526r#info 7 confirmed for F2F attendance18:06
JayF#info Jay Faulkner18:06
bh526r#info 3 or more for remote participation18:06
JayFuh, I'm in the wrong meeting room, apologies18:06
bh526rHi Jay, welcome to join the meeting18:06
bh526rNo problem, you are welcome to join us too :)18:07
JayFbh526r: my calendar said this would be docs meeting, I'm clearly wrong :) apologies for the interruption18:07
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bh526rNo problem. It is Gluon meeting18:07
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bh526r#info one is "maybe", pending on his travel approval18:08
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bh526r#info draft agenda of F2F is
bh526r#info F2F logistics is
bh526rAny question regarding F2F tomorrow?18:09
Jeffreyc42what time are we meeting at the Juniper office tomorrow?18:10
georgkwill you have a good mic in place for us?18:10
pcarverdo we have remote access?18:10
bh526rHonestly, I don't know - I will get their early to work with Nachi for mic and speaker etc.18:11
Jeffreyc42I'm bringing a good video camera with mic for the whiteboard sessions18:11
Jeffreyc42atleast reviews say its good :)18:11
bh526rExcellent Jeff. I can host AT&T connect on your laptop with good camera and mic18:11
bh526rPaul: yes, I will host an Connect bridge18:12
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Jeffreyc42What time are we meeting at?18:13
ALUViallogistics link says 9am18:13
bh526rPaul: I just sent an meeting invite with my Connect information to you18:13
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bh526rMeeting Time: 9am-5pm Local Time18:13
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bh526rwhich is Pacific Time18:13
pcarverbh526r: Thanks. I have conflicts throughout the day but will dial in to the parts when I'm available18:14
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bh526rVince: I sent the meeting invite to you too18:14
bh526rSo on your calendar, the time should be adjusted to your Central Time18:14
ALUVialI'll be there in person.  Sorry if not clarified by email.18:15
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bh526rGreat, I will let Nachi know so that he can make a name bagde for you18:15
ALUVialI'll email both of you shortly.18:15
bh526rExcellent, Vince18:15
bh526rSo now we have 8 confirmed for F2F18:16
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bh526r#info Vince just confirmed his F2F attendance, so  there are 8 persons confirmed now18:17
bh526rany question regarding F2F?18:17
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bh526r#topic Discuss Gluon and Nova/Neutron Interaction Model Proposal (if any)18:18
*** openstack changes topic to "Discuss Gluon and Nova/Neutron Interaction Model Proposal (if any) (Meeting topic: gluon)"18:18
bh526r#info this is also the agenda item of F2F on Thursday and Friday18:18
bh526r#info everyone is working on proposals, and bring it to discuss on F2F18:19
bh526r#topic Discuss PoC Proposal in OpenStack Summit in Barcelona (if any)18:20
*** openstack changes topic to "Discuss PoC Proposal in OpenStack Summit in Barcelona (if any) (Meeting topic: gluon)"18:20
bh526r#info this is also one of the agenda items in F2F18:20
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Jeffreyc42so I think we can remove the if :)18:20
bh526r#info it depends on the conclusion of interaction model too18:20
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bh526r#info more details are expected after F2F18:21
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bh526r#topic Discuss Project Roadmap and Schedule18:21
*** openstack changes topic to "Discuss Project Roadmap and Schedule (Meeting topic: gluon)"18:21
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bh526r#info it depends on previous 2 items - model and PoC scope18:21
Jeffreyc42o I have something18:22
Jeffreyc42we can discuss in detail tomorrow18:22
Jeffreyc42but basically18:22
Jeffreyc42we have more servers we can use now18:22
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Jeffreyc42but the OPNFV lab is moving to 1 of ericsson's very large datacenters18:23
Jeffreyc42so we have some options18:23
bh526r#topic Discuss Infrastructure Need of Development and PoC18:23
*** openstack changes topic to "Discuss Infrastructure Need of Development and PoC (Meeting topic: gluon)"18:23
bh526rnow we are under this topic :)18:23
Jeffreyc42they will move everythign for us where we will have zero downtime18:23
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bh526rgreat. what do you mean "move everything for us"?18:24
Jeffreyc42or we can do a new install if we want since we are adding new servers and we may want to distribute stuff on additional servers18:24
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bh526rwill they give us the whole datacenter?18:24
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Jeffreyc42no :)18:24
Jeffreyc42but they are giving us more servers there :)18:24
bh526r:) Cool. I asked too much then :)18:25
ALUVialexcellent.  more servers the better18:25
Jeffreyc42so they can move our stuff and we will never know we moved to new servers18:25
Jeffreyc42or since we have more servers we may want to move stuff around so we can choose to do a new install if we want18:25
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Jeffreyc42it's up to us and we can discuss more tomorrow if we want18:25
bh526rHow many blades shall we have? Are we using the same access method? Or shall we re-apply for access?18:26
Jeffreyc42same access method18:26
Jeffreyc42we will see no change from that point of view18:26
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Jeffreyc42they are giving us 4 and we can ask for more if we see the need18:26
Jeffreyc42so let's add this to the agenda for tomorrow18:27
bh526rFor example, we first need to Putty to G/W proxy server. Shall we use the same IP address even if tge G/W proxy server moved to new data center?18:27
bh526rThen we VNC to blade (another IP address).18:28
bh526rIf we have more blades, do we need to know those IP addresses of additional blades?18:28
Jeffreyc42it will be the exact same just more IPs for more servers18:28
bh526rLet me add this topic in the agenda for F2F18:29
bh526r#info We will have more blade servers in Ericsson's new data center18:29
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bh526r#info Access method stays the same.18:30
bh526r#info Everything stays exactly the same, but more IPs for more blades18:30
bh526r#info This topic is added to agenda for F2F18:30
bh526r#topic Discuss Project Next Steps18:31
*** openstack changes topic to "Discuss Project Next Steps (Meeting topic: gluon)"18:31
bh526r#info We will discuss lots of items at F2F18:31
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bh526r#info Once we conclude model, PoC scope, dev environment etc, we will have a good plan of next steps18:32
bh526rIn addition to adding the Infrastructure topic on the agenda, anything else?18:33
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bh526rAny other topic you want to discuss?18:34
bh526rIf no other topic, we are good for today.18:34
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bh526rHave a safe trip.18:35
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bh526rGeorg and Niko - have more sleep to prepare for late night tomorrow :)18:35
Jeffreyc42see you all tomorrow18:35
georgktalk to you tomorrow18:35
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ALUVialtill tomorrow18:36
bh526rSee you all tomorrow18:36
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kamal___see you tomorrow18:36
bh526rMeeting adjourned18:36
bh526rThank you all and bye18:36
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"18:36
openstackMeeting ended Wed Aug 17 18:36:43 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:36
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Sam-I-Amhello. docs meeting?19:00
rcaballeromxI'm here.19:00
Sam-I-Amannegentle: you running the meeting today?19:00
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Sam-I-Amor... anyone?19:01
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rcaballeromxIs there anything we need to discuss?19:02
Sam-I-Amwell, there's a standing docs meeting at this time19:02
Sam-I-Amalways something to discuss19:02
lbragstadi had some questions on
Sam-I-Am#startmeeting docteam19:02
openstackMeeting started Wed Aug 17 19:02:53 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Sam-I-Am. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: docteam)"19:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'docteam'19:02
Sam-I-Amguess we'll get this thing rolling19:03
annegentleSam-I-Am sorry, can't today19:04
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Sam-I-Amannegentle: well, you had two action items19:05
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Sam-I-Amso if you can fill us in on those, that's good19:05
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Sam-I-Am#topic action items from last meeting19:05
*** openstack changes topic to "action items from last meeting (Meeting topic: docteam)"19:05
Sam-I-Amannegentle will post to the dev mailing list regarding status code standardization19:06
Sam-I-Amannegentle to add file renaming to newton deliverables19:06
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Sam-I-Amok, guess not19:07
annegentleSam-I-Am both done19:07
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Sam-I-Amannegentle: thanks19:07
Sam-I-Am#topic specs in review19:07
*** openstack changes topic to "specs in review (Meeting topic: docteam)"19:07
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Sam-I-Ami dont have much to add here19:07
rcaballeromxI will have something by next week's meeting.19:07
Sam-I-Amin specs?19:08
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rcaballeromxBut it is not there yet.19:08
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annegentleany preview rcaballeromx ? :)19:09
rcaballeromxIt is an expansion on the personas.19:09
Sam-I-Amok, so we'll see that at some point19:09
rcaballeromxIncluding how they affect interface development.19:09
rcaballeromxWith examples!19:09
annegentlercaballeromx ok, thanks19:09
lbragstadannegentle looking for your note to -dev on the status code standardization. Do you remember when you happen to send that?19:10
annegentlelbragstad sorry, I realized I sent that giant status update and read only status not status code. After talking to mugsie after the meeting, I proposed a patch.19:10
annegentlelbragstad let me find it19:10
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annegentlelbragstad until those land I wasn't going to email the -dev list19:11
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lbragstadannegentle gotcha - thanks19:11
lbragstadi brought it to the keystone group last week and we has some questions19:12
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annegentlelbragstad ok we can go over it during the api specialty topic19:12
lbragstadannegentle cool19:12
Sam-I-Amin that case...19:12
Sam-I-Am#topic specialty teams19:12
*** openstack changes topic to "specialty teams (Meeting topic: docteam)"19:12
Sam-I-Amapi.. go.19:12
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annegentlefirst alphabetically too!19:12
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ShillaSaebihello everyone! sorry I'm late, i had another meeting that ran late19:13
annegentle#info Anne patching the os-api-ref repo with example HTTP status codes19:13
annegentlehey ShillaSaebi :)19:13
ShillaSaebiAnne thank you for chairing!!19:13
ShillaSaebiit's been one of those days...19:13
Sam-I-Amexcept i'm chairing...19:13
annegentleit's Sam-I-Am who can do it! :)19:13
ShillaSaebioh thank you Matt!19:13
Sam-I-Amanyway, continue...19:13
annegentlelbragstad carry on kind sir19:13
lbragstadannegentle i brought this up to the keystone meeting last week19:13
lbragstadand we were looking through the examples and were curious who the intended audience was for the document?19:14
lbragstadwould this be considered developer documentation?19:14
annegentlelbragstad content published to is intended for app developers19:14
annegentlelbragstad contributor developers also, of course. but primary app devs, consumers of the services19:14
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lbragstadis the intent to give app developers a place to go when certain things go wrong, or they get unexpected error codes?19:15
annegentlelbragstad so that was why I was leaning away from "informal"19:15
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annegentlelbragstad yep19:15
annegentlelbragstad hence my "uh let's not poke the bear" on the informal19:15
lbragstadannegentle gotcha - in keystone's case we mask a lot of things with a 40119:15
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annegentlelbragstad yeah you do have the chance to give specfiic info on that. if you have it.19:16
annegentlelbragstad instead of "informal" you'd use something more like "blah-blah-401"19:16
annegentlelbragstad like line 4 of
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annegentlelbragstad because they know more about that when it happens on a particular resource, they can sub in image-data-20019:17
annegentlelbragstad in the inc file19:17
lbragstadso - would it be accurate to say this seems to be the inverse document of something like?
lbragstadwhere you have the request your making and all the possible response codes?19:18
annegentlelbragstad you can keep with that bulleted list thing if you like. But we're giving you the option of "A required attribute was missing." when you know that's what 401 means in a particular case every time.19:18
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annegentlelbragstad the idea is "add a pointer to more precise descriptions for each code"19:19
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annegentlelbragstad and also gives nice table formatting19:19
annegentlelbragstad your generic one is ok19:19
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lbragstadso - what's being proposed isn't exactly a *new* document but one that can enhance what we already have if we choose to use it?19:20
annegentlelbragstad it's a more-parallel option19:21
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annegentlelbragstad parameters.yaml and status.yaml maintenance19:21
annegentlelbragstad right, it's a new tool19:21
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annegentlenew feature in the os-api-ref tool19:21
* annegentle gets precise with words19:21
Sam-I-Amwords have meaning19:22
annegentledat's right19:22
annegentlelbragstad you'd be a good reviewer on both those patches19:22
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annegentlelbragstad comment on clarifying when to use it, perhaps19:22
lbragstadannegentle sounds good - i guess the biggest thing the keystone folks were wondering is if it would duplicate doc efforts?19:23
* rcaballeromx will take a look as well.19:23
annegentlelbragstad the idea behind the example yaml is that it would give teams a good starting point19:23
lbragstadmaybe the way i relayed the message made it seem like a reverse lookup of traditional api docs19:23
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annegentlelbragstad then it's all consistent messages, and teams can further clarify as needed19:23
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annegentlelbragstad basically trying to make it easier for teams19:23
annegentle25 APIs and all that19:24
annegentlethanks rcaballeromx19:24
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Sam-I-Amanything else for api?19:25
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rcaballeromxno problem annegentle19:25
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annegentleSam-I-Am that's it.19:25
* annegentle has to head out early19:25
annegentlethanks Sam-I-Am ShillaSaebi19:25
ShillaSaebithanks annegentle have a good one!19:25
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Sam-I-Amnetworking guide... i'm trying to backport the reorg patch which involves another patch to add redirects19:26
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lbragstadso - i'll bring this all back to the keystone group and see if it clears up some of the confusion we had19:26
annegentlelbragstad thanks19:26
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lbragstadannegentle thanks for the explanation :)19:26
Sam-I-Amwhile that's in the queue, i'm reorganizing the deployment scenarios to use building blocks rather than more or less repeating a LOT of information19:26
Sam-I-Amstart simple, get more complex is the theme19:26
Sam-I-Amits a lot of work, but hopefully it ends well19:27
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ShillaSaebifingers crossed19:28
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Sam-I-Amthats it for networking19:28
Sam-I-Aminstall guide19:29
Sam-I-Amthis is about when i'd expect to see config updates for newton, but i havent seen any19:29
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Sam-I-Ambut its not my project19:29
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Sam-I-Amany other specialty team reports?19:29
ShillaSaebiops/arch guide update: ops guide reorg in progress19:29
Sam-I-Ami've seen some of those patches go by19:30
ShillaSaebiworking on getting some more enterprise docs added into the ops guide19:30
ShillaSaebithe rabbit MQ troubleshooting one was the start of it19:30
Sam-I-Amthose would make sense19:30
Sam-I-Ami'm still on the idea we should consolidate our books to make things easier to find19:31
Sam-I-Ambut thats another topic...19:31
ShillaSaebiArch Guide working group proposed a series of short sprints and working in pairs as SMEs...Dates TBD19:31
ShillaSaebiyeah i don't disagree with you there19:31
Sam-I-Ami've been trying, but its not gaining a lot of traction19:31
Sam-I-Ameverything in one place, organized by service19:31
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ShillaSaebiyeah I can see that19:32
ShillaSaebithat's all I got really on the ops/arch guide19:32
Sam-I-Ammaybe a spec for O :)19:32
ShillaSaebiyeah maybe :)19:32
Sam-I-Amok. any other specialty groups?19:32
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Sam-I-Am#topic #open discussion19:33
*** openstack changes topic to "#open discussion (Meeting topic: docteam)"19:33
Sam-I-Am#topic open discussion19:33
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: docteam)"19:33
Sam-I-Amanything else?19:33
ShillaSaebiare u going to be in NY?19:33
ShillaSaebifor either OpenStack East or the mid cycle?19:33
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Sam-I-Ami'm going to the ops mid19:33
Sam-I-Amand apparently moderating the docs session19:34
ShillaSaebiill be at openstack east but not the mid cycle19:34
* rcaballeromx is sad to miss it.19:35
Sam-I-Amdoh. they're close, arent they?19:35
ShillaSaebiyeah i think openstack east is Tues/Wed and midcycle is Thurs/Friday?19:35
ShillaSaebiboth in NY19:35
Sam-I-Amsomething like that19:35
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ShillaSaebiwell i don't have anything else19:35
Sam-I-Amme neither19:35
ShillaSaebisorry i was late!19:35
Sam-I-Ami think we're done19:35
ShillaSaebihave a good one and talk to you all later!19:36
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"19:36
openstackMeeting ended Wed Aug 17 19:36:16 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)19:36
openstackMinutes (text):
rcaballeromxTake care guys.19:36
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notmynameswift meeting time21:00
notmyname#startmeeting swift21:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Aug 17 21:00:05 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)"21:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'swift'21:00
notmynamewho's here for the swift team meeting?21:00
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notmynameagenda this week is
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notmynameI want to go over "this week in the tc..." and then hear from people as to what you're workign on and how's it going21:01
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notmynametimburke: torgomatic: courtesy ping21:02
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notmyname#topic tc goals21:02
*** openstack changes topic to "tc goals (Meeting topic: swift)"21:03
notmynameyou may have seen this email thread on the mailing list21:03
notmynamehere's the summary of the tc decision this week:21:03
notmynamethe TC will set openstack-wide goals for every project to implement in a given development cycle21:03
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notmynamethe 2 proposed goals for the octa release are (1) stop using any oslo incubated code and (3) full py35 compatibility, including all tests and all services running under py3521:04
notmynameif the second one sounds ... ambitious, you aren't alone :-)21:05
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notmynameand there are likely other projects (including nova) that will likely not be able to implement that during the octa cycle21:05
notmynameso the debate continues21:05
notmynamebut that being said, there's the current status and something we'll all be affected by21:05
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notmynameif you want the details, I'll point you to the ML thread and/or the gerrit review21:06
cschwedenotmyname: can you link them here?21:06
notmynameok. give me a moment21:06
mattoliveraunotmyname: you mean you weren't prepared :P21:06
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patchbotnotmyname: patch 349068 - governance - describe a process for managing community-wide goals (MERGED)21:07
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patchbotmattoliverau: patch 349068 - governance - describe a process for managing community-wide goals (MERGED)21:07
acolesthe TC meeting log is here
cschwedenotmyname: mattoliverau: acoles: thx a lot!21:08
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notmynameand seems to be close enough to the top of the thread to pick it up21:08
notmynamethe recent branch of it is at
notmynameso peruse those and feel free to ask questions21:09
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notmynameany questions or comments on that topic before we move on?21:10
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notmynameok, let's move on then21:11
acolesnotmyname: what useful input can be made to the debate?21:11
acolesfrom swift I mean21:11
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notmynamewhen it comes to the goals themselves, we'll need to give realistic feedback about what it will take for us to implement them21:12
notmynameas to the process itself, it seems that the debate is over21:12
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acolesunderstood re process, just wondering how they will decide on the py35 for ocata goal21:13
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notmynamemy understanding is that the goal is proposed and approved by the tc and then the feedback is given by the projects by a relatively early date in the release cycle21:14
notmynamealthough there seemed to be some debate in the meeting on if that was actually a good process or not. so it might be tweaked21:15
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notmynamebut that's what's on record now21:15
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notmynameI guess what I'm saying is that "py35 in octa" is decided. we can give feedback later on what we're doing to make that happen21:16
notmynameat least, that's my understanding of the current situation21:16
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notmynameacoles: is that how you saw it?21:17
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acolesnotmyname: thanks for clarifying. I was not sure if the py35 goal had been adopted or just proposed21:18
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notmynameactually, it hasn't landed yet, so it's not formally adopted. so there might be some small changes, I suppose21:18
patchbotnotmyname: patch 349069 - governance - add ocata goal "support python 3.5"21:18
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notmynamelooks like a new patch set was uploaded in the past hour, so i'll need to look at that21:19
notmynameanythign else on this topic?21:19
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notmynameok, moving on21:20
notmyname#topic status updates21:20
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notmynameit's been a crazy few weeks, with the golang stuff and the other tc debates21:21
notmynameor at least, it's been crazy for me. I hope you've been more productive :-)21:21
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notmynameso that being said, I want to hear what you're working on, how's it going, and where we can all pitch in21:21
onovyLooking for final +A for ionice / nice patch21:22
notmynameonovy: yeah, I think between mattoliverau and clayg, we should have that21:22
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nadeemstill working on repconn patch..hoping to finish it this week.21:22
notmynamenadeem: great!!21:22
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notmynamenadeem: I'm looking forward to seeing that21:22
notmynametimburke:  you've been working on the history mode versioning, right? what's going on there?21:23
mattoliverauonovy: yeah, if clayg is only co-authored by doeing some nits, then I can change mine to a +A21:23
onovymattoliverau: coauthored was added by Peter21:23
timburkenotmyname: responding about as quickly as i can now that it's finally got some attention21:23
onovyJust because he used few ideas from clay21:23
timburkehasn't changed materially in months21:23
torgomaticI wrote multi-range GETs for SLOs; it's in gerrit. I mostly did that since I'm reusing SegmentedIterable in some other code for which I need multi-range support, not because there's some burning desire for this functionality in SLO.21:24
notmynametimburke: so are we going to land it soon?21:24
cschwedejust uploaded a new patchset for the partpower increase - will continue with the tempurl stuff21:24
notmynamecschwede: nice!21:24
jrichlitimburke: I owe you a reply on history mode.  It's on my list.  I need to talk with somebody21:24
timburkethat's the hope :-)21:24
acolesoshritf and I have been working on process concurrency for container sync, patch is ready for review
cschwedejrichli: timburke: me to, i will do another review tomorrow morning21:24
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timburkethere's also the slo-etag-in-sysmeta change -- patch 34753821:25
patchbottimburke: - swift - Store SLO Etag and swift_bytes in sysmeta21:25
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timburkewhich fell out of some investigation for swift3 about conditional requests and SLOs. the long and short of it was, don't mess with SLO etags :(21:26
timburke(at least on swift pre-that-patch)21:26
jrichlilol.  large object are such a problem child!21:26
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notmynamejoeljwright: I've still got "release swift client" on my todo list... anything to update on work needed there?21:27
onovymattoliverau: so I think you can +A if nobody complains :-)21:27
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timburkethere's at least one new bug (which i'm still writing up) that would block it21:27
joeljwrightnotmyname: it would be great to see the copy method patch added21:27
patchbotjoeljwright: patch 280200 - python-swiftclient - Add copy object method21:27
onovyAha copy from Marek21:27
notmynamejoeljwright: welll *somebody* put a -1 one on it! ;-)21:28
mattoliverauonovy: I'll take a look again post meeting and breakfast21:28
onovyMarek is not working for Seznam anymore. So he will not update it21:28
timburke(requests started getting picky about header types/format)21:28
onovymattoliverau: cool thanks21:28
joeljwrighttimburke: what's the bug?21:28
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notmynameonovy: ah, good info. thanks21:28
joeljwrightand there it is21:28
notmynamejoeljwright: can you push your typos fixes over?21:28
onovynotmyname: but Peter can work on it. But not now, too busy21:28
timburke-H 'X-Storage-Policy: EC' doesn't work. needs to be -H 'X-Storage-Policy:EC' now (no space)21:29
onovySo I am fine if someone can take it and finish it21:29
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joeljwrightnotmyname: yeah, the -1 I put on could be easily fixed with a small patch21:29
joeljwrightI can do that tomorrow21:29
notmynamejoeljwright: ok. thanks.21:29
onovyCool, thanks21:29
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notmynametimburke: ummm...that's...weird?21:29
redboI'm benchmarking a golang container server.  And an alternative backend that uses boltdb.21:30
mattoliverautimburke: whitespace is from the devel after all :P21:30
timburkenotmyname: related (at least vaguely) to my reply on the ML:
redboI may try leveldb/rocksdb, but it's a little more complicated because there aren't transactions.21:31
notmynameredbo: interesting.21:31
onovyAnd do we need transactions?21:31
notmynamemattoliverau: speaking of containers, any progress on sharding?21:32
redbothings like merging objects kind of need to be able to read/modify/write transactionally.21:32
onovyAh right21:32
joeljwrighttimburke: let me know if there's something I can look at when you've got a patch/bug report21:32
jrichlitdasilva has been working on symlinks ( I guess he is away now ).  I still need to play around with the latest patchset!21:33
mattoliverauyeah, i've been distracted with the Flu and the wifes surgery the last week or so.. but making progress, container backend has support for the 2 databases.. still more to do there.. and about 1/2 thorugh the container consistency engine.. I have a trello board I try and keep up to date (which I shouhd update).. its linked on the ideas page21:33
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notmynamemattoliverau: ack21:33
mattoliveraunext steps will me sharder modification.21:34
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acolesI put up a patch to get rid of .durable files so we use less inodes
notmynameacoles: yay21:35
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cschwedeacoles: nice! adding this to my to-review-list21:36
notmynamelot's going on. instead of feeling overwhelmed, it makes me happy. :-)21:36
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notmynameI need to update stars/priority reviews/etc. I'll do that asap21:36
acolescschwede: notmyname 90% of the diff lines are in tests :/ but lots of those are duplicating for old and new durable scheme21:37
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notmynameI'll be traveling to NYC next week for OpenStack East and the ops meetup.21:37
notmynameI think I'll see tdasilva there21:37
notmynameanyone else going?21:38
notmynameacoles: you'll be out all next week? and the following?21:38
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mattoliveraubit far for me :P21:38
notmynamemattoliverau: swim ;-)21:38
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mattoliveraunotmyname: lol, I see what you did there!21:38
acolesnotmyname: yes I am away for next two weeks21:39
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notmynamekota is out this week and IIRC will be back next week21:39
notmynameand joeljwright, you'll be on vacation soon right? end of this month?21:39
mattoliverauacoles: vacation? is it suppose to be summer on the other side of the world or something.21:40
joeljwrightno, end of sept21:40
notmynamejoeljwright: ah, ok21:40
jrichliacoles is going to the US!21:40
onovyBtw: what is release plan? Any deadlines? :-)21:40
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notmynameonovy: great question21:40
* onovy need to prepare Debian package :-)21:41
notmynamewe need to have a release for newton by the end of september21:41
notmynamefor swift21:41
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acolesmattoliverau: ironically it is quite summer-like in UK but we're heading elsewhere21:41
notmynameI suspect that will be the next release we have (we *might* could have one before then, but I doubt it)21:42
onovyAnd client?21:42
mattoliverauacoles: lol, you should save up your leave and come to Oz in your winter.. how theres a holiday ;)21:42
notmynameand I'd like to do a client release asap. call it the next couple of weeks?21:42
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onovyNice thanks21:42
joeljwrightok, I'll get some time put aside for reviews and updates on the client21:42
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notmynameI propose we do not meet next week. unless someone would like to volunteer to chair21:43
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notmynameanything else from anyone to bring up in this week's meeting?21:44
joeljwrightyeah, actually I have21:44
joeljwrightwhile I've been hiding21:44
mattoliverauI'm happy no meeting.. if we decide that needs to change, then we can figure something out.. I'm excited about possibly sleeping in a little :)21:44
joeljwrightI've been working on a middleware I'd like to open source21:44
notmynamejoeljwright: cool21:44
joeljwright(based on SLO to make TAR objjects)21:45
notmynamejoeljwright: oh? like a reverse bulk upload?21:45
joeljwrightbut what's the best process to make this thing available?21:45
joeljwrightI still have work to do, but it's at a point where feedback would be helpful :)21:45
notmynamejoeljwright: do you want it to be upstream in swift? or do you just want it to be open?21:45
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onovyCreate new os project with infra?21:46
onovyOr merge it to swift21:46
joeljwrightnotmyname: I suppose that depends on interest21:46
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notmynamejoeljwright: if it's the reverse of the bulk upload, I'm interested :-)21:46
* onovy too 21:46
cschwedejoeljwright: i’m interested! had something similar in mind for some time...21:46
mattoliveraujoeljwright: start as a patch to swift, we can take it from there ;)21:46
notmynameso there's 2 options21:46
notmynameeither just straight up propose it to swift as a patch in gerrit21:47
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notmynameor write up something and put it in your own code hosting thing (github or otherwise) and link it on the ideas wiki21:47
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onovy+1 for first option21:47
notmynamebut either way, then you'll need to bug people to look at it. and we can take it from there21:47
csmartnice one joeljwright21:47
joeljwrightthe hardest part for me with option 1 is that it's targetted at 2.2.x21:48
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timburkeoh yeah, there's another thing i've been working on!
patchbottimburke: patch 342857 - swift - Add defaulter middleware21:48
joeljwrightbut making a patch might be the easiest way to get it under noses21:49
joeljwrightthanks everyone21:49
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mattoliverautimburke: I've been meaning to look at that.. I'll try and get to it this week21:49
onovyBtw I added all manpages21:49
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notmynameonovy: thanks21:49
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onovyCan't found patch now,  I am on cellphone21:50
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timburkeanother thing (still thinking of that requests upgrade): what do we think about developers passing headers like {'X-Object-Meta-Foo': 1000}? should we change swiftclient to str-ify all header args, or should we go fix ? probably worth considering the discussion at
patchbotnotmyname: patch 355187 - swift - Added missing manpages for all cli tools21:50
onovyYep that's it21:50
onovyHelp2man is your friend21:51
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notmynametimburke: I'm not up to date on teh requests upgrade topic, but my gut reaction is that we should assume headers are strings and not any other particular type21:51
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notmynametimburke: where's the requests upgrade discussion/but/whatever happening?21:52
notmynamehow do I get caught up there?21:52
timburkebut when they aren't, should we (a) yell loudly, (b) do nothing and let requests (maybe) yell loudly, or (c) coerce it to a string21:53
onovyAnd another topic we was working hls live streaming directly from swift. And guess what, it's working and we will use it :-)21:53
timburkenotmyname: go see the requests pull21:53
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notmynametimburke: ok. has this trickled into openstack yet?21:54
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notmynameonovy: awesome21:54
onovyI will show demo when it will be ready21:54
timburkenotmyname: i've seen a message on the ML related to it21:54
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joeljwrighttimburke: I'll have a read of that requests backgroud and try to form an opinion21:54
timburkejoeljwright: thanks21:54
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notmynameanything else from anyone this week?21:54
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onovy-> bed, thanks, gn21:55
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mattoliverauonovy: o/21:55
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mattoliveraukota_: little late, but you made it!21:55
kota_sorry, my alarm has been stopped.21:56
notmynamekota_: no worries :-)21:56
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notmynameeveryone, thank you for coming to the meeting this week21:56
notmynameand thank you for working on swift. it's very nice, for me, (especially after all the recent discussions) to hear about the feature being written, the bugs being fixed, and the prod use cases being addressed :-)21:57
notmynameno meeting next week, and I'll see you in #openstack-swift21:57
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mattoliverauthanks again notmyname!21:57
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