Tuesday, 2016-08-23

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hongbin#startmeeting zun03:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Aug 23 03:00:16 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is hongbin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.03:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.03:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zun)"03:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'zun'03:00
hongbin#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun#Agenda_for_2016-08-23_0300_UTC Today's agenda03:00
hongbin#topic Roll Call03:00
*** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: zun)"03:00
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mkraiMadhuri Kumari03:00
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hongbinThanks for joining the meeting sudipto eliqiao Namrata mkrai03:01
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hongbinWenzhi sent a message to me that he won't attend this time03:02
hongbinLet's start03:02
hongbin#topic Announcements03:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: zun)"03:02
hongbin1. Welcome Sudipta Biswas and Wenzhi Yu to the core team03:02
hongbinThanks sudipto and wenzhi for the contribution03:03
sudiptoThank you everyone who voted!03:03
mkraiCongrats sudipto Wenzhi. Welcome to the team:)03:03
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hongbin#topic Review Action Items03:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Review Action Items (Meeting topic: zun)"03:03
hongbin1. hongbin creates an etherpad to brainstorm ideas for container image store solution (DONE)03:03
hongbin#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-container-image03:03
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hongbinWant to work on the etherpad or do it as a homework?03:04
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mkraiLet's take it the end after we finish the rest of the discussion03:04
hongbin#topic Runtimes API design (mkrai)03:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Runtimes API design (mkrai) (Meeting topic: zun)"03:05
hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/api-design The BP03:05
hongbin#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-containers-service-api The etherpad03:05
hongbin#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-containers-service-api-spec The spec03:05
hongbinI think the basic of the runtime API is there03:05
mkraiWe now have the docker APIs running.03:05
hongbinThanks mkrai for the hard work03:05
mkraiI hope rest of the team have tried :)03:05
mkraiThanks to you too hongbin :)03:06
eliqiaogood work mkrai. thanks.03:06
mkraiThanks eliqiao03:06
hongbinFor now, I think it is a good time for everyone to try the API03:06
hongbinand enhance it03:07
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hongbinFor example, I am thinking if we should add support for interacive mode03:07
eliqiaoActually, I am thinking to add tempest api cases and enable it in gate03:07
hongbinLike, docker -it busybox03:07
sudiptoeliqiao, that'd be great.03:07
hongbinYes, that would be great03:08
sudiptoYeah, I am in the process of trying it out - however I am struggling with a few things on the start up doc - i hope to find a solution to it today.03:08
sudiptoLike i told in the group before, i am trying to create a very quick bootstrap env for the developers to try out zun03:08
hongbinsudipto: I guess the easier way is devstack03:08
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hongbinsudipto: however, ping me if you want any help though03:09
sudiptoyeah for now - for sure. But hopefully once i am through you can evaluate this option too.03:09
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sudiptoas a part of that - i have created 2 containers - 1. mysql 2. rabbit + keystone. and a 3rd container with a privileged mode to run zun03:09
sudiptowhile on the 3rd container - i have some minor issues, that will hope to sort out today.03:10
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sudiptoThe docs probably need a refresh too - i mean the startup doc03:10
sudipto#link: https://github.com/openstack/higgins/blob/master/doc/source/dev/quickstart.rst03:10
hongbinYes, it possibly needs03:10
hongbinIt hasn't been updated for a while03:10
hongbinsudipto: as usual, just ping hte channel if you need any help03:11
sudiptoSure i will do that.03:11
sudiptomkrai, i might need some time of yours today - if you are free for sometime.03:11
mkraiSure sudipto03:11
hongbinOK. Let's advance topic03:12
hongbin#topic Nova integration (Namrata)03:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Nova integration (Namrata) (Meeting topic: zun)"03:12
hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/nova-integration The BP03:12
hongbin#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-containers-nova-integration The etherpad03:12
hongbinNamrata: ^^03:12
Namratai was on  holiday for last week so unable to updat the patch03:13
Namratai will do this week03:13
hongbinNamrata: get that03:13
hongbinNamrata: anything you need from the team so far?03:14
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Namratai see some good comments on patch03:14
Namratai will ping on irc if i need anything03:15
hongbinNamrata: awesome03:15
hongbinThanks Namrata03:15
hongbinNext one03:15
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hongbin#topic Container image store03:15
*** openstack changes topic to "Container image store (Meeting topic: zun)"03:15
Namratathanks everbody for reviewing03:16
hongbin#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-container-image03:16
hongbinWant to discuss the container image now?03:16
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sudiptoMy vote is for Yes.03:17
hongbinMaybe I pause for a few minutes for you to read though the etherpad03:17
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hongbinsudipto: Yes for?03:17
sudiptoAs in - let's discuss a bit03:17
mkraiThere is no perfect solution as of now03:17
sudiptoDO we want to support 'building' of images?03:18
sudiptovia a zun API?03:18
hongbinsudipto: what is your opinion about that?03:18
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sudiptobasically that would help us answer the image management question better.03:19
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sudiptoI haven't used the APIs yet - but how do we select a image now to run a container?03:20
sudiptofrom zun i mean03:20
hongbinIt pull it from docker hub03:20
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mkraiIt now downloads from docker hub03:20
sudiptoOk - so basically it creates a image cache on the local host03:20
sudiptofor the next 'run'03:20
sudiptoOk that workflow works for all public images03:21
sudiptoHowever, there's no way to segregate these images via tenant isolation.03:21
hongbinNo, there is not03:21
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sudiptoso when we say glance/glare support - we are basically cutting off from docker hub completely?03:22
hongbinWe need a multi-tenant image store03:22
hongbinsudipto: Not necessary03:22
sudiptolet's say i have the images in glance. A docker run - then would get the images from glance right?03:23
mkraiWe should keep it configurable I think so03:23
hongbinGet it from Glance first,03:23
sudiptoCan we really do that?03:23
hongbinIf not there, get it from docker hub03:23
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sudiptoas in a docker run would want to boot from the local cache eventually by either docker pull or if it's cached - then just reading it from there.03:24
sudiptoso do you expect glance to do something like a docker pull?03:24
hongbinThere is a solution though03:24
sudiptoas in zun does a docker pull from glance03:24
hongbin1. store docker image as a tar file03:24
hongbin2. pull hte tar file from Glance03:25
hongbin3. docker import xxx.tar03:25
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hongbinThen, the tar file is extracted to localhost03:25
hongbinI guess this is the nova-docker solution?03:26
sudiptoyeah that's how nova docker should have worked.03:26
sudiptoEven though i haven't used it.03:26
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hongbinThe disadvange is the layer of image is not supported03:26
sudiptoyou mean every pull is a fresh pull03:26
hongbinsince there is a tar file, no layer03:26
hongbinYes, every pull is a full pull03:27
hongbinno layer03:27
sudiptoi guess it needs us to also consider what storage driver is supported on the host03:27
sudiptowhich docker does for us now.03:27
sudiptoSo if the host is X - it might have a storage driver Y - and similarly a different combination for another host.03:28
hongbindocker export/import is indepedent of storage driver I think03:28
sudiptono no - i am not talking about that.03:28
sudiptoI am probably jumping the gun and looking at glance or something else outside of docker supporting image layering03:28
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sudiptomy point being, if we put it outside of docker - the software which would eventually store this image - would have to be aware of the storage driver - no?03:29
hongbinMy guess is no03:29
sudiptomaybe not.03:29
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hongbinsince docker has a way to import/expose images as I mentioned03:30
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sudiptoOk i was talking about running 2 containers with the same image - with a union filesystem backing on a host.03:30
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sudiptodocker i guess should be able to take care of that - post we have downloaded the image.03:30
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sudiptoI will write my thoughts on your ether pad hongbin :)03:31
sudiptoand have a discussion on the IRC channel.03:31
mkraiSorry got disconnected03:31
hongbinmkrai: we were talking about docker image for different storage driver03:31
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hongbinsudipto is writing on the etherpad. Let's check how he write03:32
mkraihongbin: How can we commit to a image in localhost?03:36
hongbinthere is a docker commit command03:36
hongbinwe can add support for that in zun03:36
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sudiptoI feel we can support both - the docker registry or glance03:39
sudiptoglance comes in with being slow03:39
sudiptowhile docker registry comes with no multi-tenancy03:39
sudiptoat this time of the writing.03:39
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hongbinsudipto: could we have both03:39
hongbinsudipto: glance and docker hub03:39
sudiptoglance and docker hub won't be possible i think03:39
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sudiptoor we can introduce a API flag - that would either get it from glance or from docker hub - based on what the user wants.03:40
hongbinsudipto: we could get it from glance first, if not there, get it from docker hub03:40
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sudiptoyeah - and possibly get it from docker hub into glance - would be the ideal behaviour then03:41
hongbinan alternative is to introduce a flag03:41
sudiptozun run <image_id> --> look up glance --> not there --> try from docker hub --> image found --> download to glance --> download to the localhost --> boot the container.03:41
hongbinzun pull busybox (get it from glance)03:41
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hongbinzun pull docker.io/busybox (get it from docker hub)03:42
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mkraisudipto: you mean private docker registry. Right?03:42
sudiptomkrai, no03:42
sudiptoprivate docker registry is another option all together03:42
sudiptothat would not need glance.03:42
mkraiWe should consider the case, not all users might have internet access03:43
sudiptobasically IMO - we should have one place for zun to get images from - be it local docker registry or glance or docker hub or xyz03:43
sudiptothat could be a tenant setting?03:44
hongbinsudipto: could be a config03:44
sudiptohongbin, per host config?03:44
hongbinmaybe per zun03:44
sudiptoor zun wide?03:44
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sudiptook if you basically want multi-tenancy - set zun to use glance.03:45
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hongbinsounds good03:46
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hongbinmaybe we could write down the proposal to the etherpad03:47
sudiptoSure i will do that.03:47
hongbinThen, let the team revisit it next meeting03:47
sudiptoand exchange it over ML?03:47
sudiptoor not needed?03:47
hongbinyes, ML could work as well03:47
mkraiEither works03:47
sudiptoI am just thinking ML might get some glance/glare folks interested.03:47
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mkraiYes good point03:48
sudiptonothing to loose kinda situation :)03:48
sudiptoGet to ether pad - discuss and then once we have consensus - send to ML03:48
hongbinThen, let's advance topic03:49
hongbin#topic Multi-tenancy (Wenzhi Yu)03:49
*** openstack changes topic to "Multi-tenancy (Wenzhi Yu) (Meeting topic: zun)"03:49
hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/support-multi-tenancy03:49
hongbinWenzhi cannot attend the meeting today, but he left me a message for the status03:49
hongbin(Wenzhi): I submitted patch "Load wsgi apps with paste.deploy"03:49
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hongbin(Wenzhi): https://review.openstack.org/#/c/357615/ . The patch has already landed.03:49
hongbin(Wenzhi): With this patch, we can now group the containers by tenants -- to each tenant, containers in other tenants are invisible.03:49
hongbin(Wenzhi): If folks may have comments about this bp, please ask them to leave their comments on this etherpad https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-multi-tenancy03:50
hongbin(Wenzhi): I will read and address them later.03:50
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hongbin#topic Open Discussion03:50
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mkraiWe should now start on some documentation03:51
mkraiIt will attract some develops03:51
hongbinYes, the quickstart guide need to enhance03:51
sudiptomkrai, totally agreed.03:51
hongbinLet's create a bug for that03:52
sudiptowe need to expand base :)03:52
mkraihongbin: Can we create architeture diagram now03:52
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hongbin#action hongbin create a bug for enhancing the quickstart guide03:52
mkraiI guess we have the base ready03:52
mkraiI will create architecture diagram03:53
sudiptomkrai, count me in03:53
hongbinmkrai: there is one though03:53
hongbin#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-container-state-management03:53
mkraiAnd try to write some information03:53
mkraiI will take this as reference03:54
mkraiI want to create a doc that is short introduction to Zun03:54
hongbinfor sure03:55
mkraiI get some pings asking for introduction of Zun03:55
mkraiI want to avoid answering everytime ;)03:56
hongbinoh, from who?03:56
hongbinyour manager?03:56
mkraiSome developers from community and manager too03:56
hongbinOK. Let's wrap up the meeting a bit earlier03:57
hongbinand discuss in the IRC channel03:57
mkraiThanks all :)03:57
hongbinAll, thanks for joining hte meeting03:57
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"03:57
openstackMeeting ended Tue Aug 23 03:57:47 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)03:57
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-08-23-03.00.html03:57
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-08-23-03.00.txt03:57
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-08-23-03.00.log.html03:57
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yamamoto#startmeeting networking_midonet07:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Aug 23 07:00:21 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is yamamoto. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.07:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.07:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)"07:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'networking_midonet'07:00
yamamoto#topic agenda07:00
*** openstack changes topic to "agenda (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)"07:00
yamamoto#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NetworkingMidoNet07:00
yamamoto#topic Announcements07:00
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)"07:00
yamamotono announcement from me07:01
yamamoto#topic Bugs07:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)"07:01
yamamotowe have a few gate issues07:01
yamamotofixes for fwaas related ones are in review07:01
yamamoto#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/neutron-fwaas+branch:master+topic:bug/161557707:01
yamamotoi think it's better to separate jobs to avoid being affected by other projects07:03
yamamoto#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/networking-midonet/+bug/161566807:03
openstackLaunchpad bug 1615668 in networking-midonet "make voting-job minimum" [High,New]07:03
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yamamoto#topic Open Discussion07:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)"07:03
yamamotonothing from me07:03
* yamamoto waiting a few mins07:03
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yamamotothank you!07:05
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"07:05
openstackMeeting ended Tue Aug 23 07:05:53 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)07:05
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-08-23-07.00.html07:05
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-08-23-07.00.txt07:05
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-08-23-07.00.log.html07:05
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Qiming#startmeeting senlin13:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Aug 23 13:00:28 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.13:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.13:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'senlin'13:00
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Qiminghi, guoshan13:00
Qimingevening, yanyan13:01
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Qimingxinhui just texted me that she cannot join because of stomachache13:01
Qiminghi, elynn13:01
yanyanhuhope she will be fine13:01
Qiminglet's get started, quite somethings to go thru13:01
Qiming#topic newton work items13:02
*** openstack changes topic to "newton work items (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:02
Qiming#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-newton-workitems13:02
yanyanhuabout rally plugin, just kept working on profile context support last week13:02
Qimingstill some complaints about rally patch?13:02
yanyanhumay need more time to finish it13:02
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yanyanhubut I think there is no critical issue13:03
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Qimingfine. let's go their way13:03
Qimingintegration test13:03
yanyanhujust need more discussion on some detail13:03
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yanyanhuanother fix has been proposed and need another +2 and workflow13:04
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yanyanhuhope this is the last fix needed...13:04
Qimingif needed, we may ping the reviewers for a push13:04
yanyanhusure, Qiming13:05
Qiminghealth management13:05
QimingPOC almost done13:05
yanyanhugreat news13:05
Qimingfixed a lot of corner issues13:05
Qimingwe can listen to nova events and take recover actions automatically13:05
Qimingthough there are follow ups about fencing, fixed in some other patches13:06
Qimingthe reason is that we were doing fencing regardless the failure's nature13:06
Qimingif we are already got an event notification from nova, that means the vm is already stopped, shutdown, deleted etc.13:06
Qimingwe don't need to do a 'fencing' operation to ensure that the vm is dead13:07
yanyanhuQiming, so in that case, fencing just means "confirmation" maybe13:07
Qimingfencing is still needed, if we are detecting vm failure from external monitoring software/service13:07
Qimingcurrent fencing implementation is a forced delete13:07
yanyanhuI see13:07
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Qiminghowever, if we unconditionally enables fencing that means:13:08
yanyanhuthe most completed one13:08
Qimingserver deleted -> nova sends notification -> senlin heard it -> senlin try to 'fence' it -> senlin force delete the server -> nova sends another notification -> senlin heard it again ...13:08
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Qimingit is an endless loop13:09
Qiminganother fix is we temporarily removed network/storage fencing13:09
yanyanhuthe second notification was caused by deleting request from senlin?13:09
Qimingbecause they are not there yet13:09
Qimingyes, yanyan13:09
Qimingso I have my node recovered twice ...13:09
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yanyanhuyes... that is unexpected13:10
Qimingif I am stopping a node13:10
Qimingyet another patch was submitted to oslo.messaging, because there are filter bugs there13:10
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Qimingwe sometimes got an ValueError from the listener because some notifications have 'project_id' set to None13:11
QimingI'm working on a new method eval_status for cluster13:11
Qimingthat can be invoked at any time to reevaluate a cluster's "health status"13:12
yanyanhuyes, that's a very useful interface13:12
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yanyanhuuser can manually trigger it13:12
Qimingthis method can be invoked after a cluster_check operation ... when all node checks are done13:12
Qimingwe need to reassess the cluster's status13:12
yanyanhuand build their own health check logic based on this interface13:12
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Qimingyep, that is another possiblity, I mean, expose the interface to users13:13
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Qimingit can be invoked after a scaling operation, be it a success or a failure13:13
yanyanhuthat will be semi-auto healing :)13:13
Qiminganyway, still work on it13:13
Qimingas a user, I need to know the cluster status for sure13:14
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Qimingdocumentation side, fixed some trivial bugs in api-ref and user tutorial13:14
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Qimingsmall patches for review13:14
Qimingprofile/policy version control, yanyan has a new patchset?13:15
yanyanhua new patchset based on your comments13:15
Qimingwill review it tomorrow13:15
yanyanhuthanks a lot :)13:15
Qiminghaiwei is not in, right?13:15
yanyanhuseems so13:15
Qiminghaven't heard from him for a while13:15
Qimingthen we can skip container support today13:16
Qimingrecevier with zaqar13:16
Qimingsaw your patches, almost there I think13:16
yanyanhusupport in sdk side has almost been done13:16
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yanyanhuyes, will fix those issues you mentioned13:16
QimingI have added an item to the meeting agenda for you to talk about the receiver design13:16
Qimingversioned notification ... emm ... no cycles on that13:17
yanyanhuwill quick go through the basic idea13:17
Qiminghave been contacting brian about sdk version cut13:17
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QimingI think we are in good shape for a new sdk version and we actually need it badly, it is breaking senlin gates13:18
yanyanhuhope it will include all those features we are expecting13:18
yanyanhuthe gate is broken now...13:18
Qimingany other topics beside policy/profile validate and zaqar support?13:18
yanyanhunope from me13:18
QimingI was thinking about adding start_server and stop_server today13:18
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Qimingas part of the HA story13:18
Qimingif we know a sever was just accidentally stopped, we can just start it13:19
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Qimingit can even get used in an autoscaling scenario13:19
yanyanhuyes, that will be useful13:19
Qimingif you want to scale out, just "start" a sever that was previously stopped13:19
Qimingthat will make things very quick13:19
elynnyes, like nova-compute are shutdown and recover13:20
elynnThen we might need to start our vm nodes.13:20
Qimingit is a little bit complicated when we are talking about nova-compute ...13:20
yanyanhumaybe this feature can be used to support quick scaling :)13:20
QimingI hope there are notifications about nova-compute going down, but got no confirmation so far13:21
yanyanhuas well as scaling to standby cluster13:21
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elynnoh, you remind me a topic about standby cluster13:21
yanyanhuelynn, :)13:21
Qimingit could be very easy, 90% documentation + 10 % code13:21
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Qimingokay, anything else about newton work items?13:21
elynnit is a useful scenario.13:21
Qimingwe'll try get a new sdk version this week and have the gate fixes13:22
yanyanhuthen standby cluster will be real "standby"13:22
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Qimingthen we freeze senlinclient, then senlin rc113:22
zzxwill@Qiming, based on OSC 3.0?13:22
yanyanhuQiming, ok, will finish the patches for zaqar v2 api13:22
Qimingzzxwill, we already support OSC13:22
Qimingjust there are some defects about the --profile parameter13:23
Qimingit is ... a conflict with the existing osprofiler parameter13:23
Qimingwe don't want to change the name13:23
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Qimingso OSC will deprecate '--profile' parameter in April 2017, according to the plan13:23
Qimingthen we can completely throw away our own CLI13:24
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elynnSince people seldon enable osprofiler in their env, that would be ok...13:24
zzxwillGot it. I saw your comments to a bug.13:24
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Qimingthat is the best result we can get, considering the concern about the existing users13:24
Qiming#topic health checking update13:25
*** openstack changes topic to "health checking update (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:25
QimingI think I have gone thru most of them just now13:25
Qimingthere are still a lots of gaps, will do my best to close them one by one13:25
Qimingany questions/comments about health?13:26
yanyanhugreat. hope there will be a fantastic demo for summit13:26
yanyanhuif our topic is accepted13:26
QimingI can already give you one, :)13:26
yanyanhucool :)13:26
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Qimingif you cherrypick the patches, you can try it yourself, ;)13:26
yanyanhuok, will make try13:27
Qiminglet's move on13:27
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yanyanhuhope my devstack is not too old13:27
Qiming#topic zaqar receiver's design13:27
*** openstack changes topic to "zaqar receiver's design (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:27
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Qiming#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-message-type-receiver13:27
yanyanhuyes, this is the etherpad to record the idea13:27
Qimingif you haven't checked this etherpad, you may need to go thru it quickly13:27
yanyanhuspent some time to think about the design of message type of receiver13:28
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yanyanhubased on my current understanding of zaqar message13:28
Qimingokay, please do your best to avoid a new middleware13:28
yanyanhuQiming, yes, I considered to reuse webhook13:29
yanyanhujust found some gaps there13:29
yanyanhuneed more thinking here13:29
Qimingwebhook is already dirty13:29
QimingI'm not sure if there are security breaches there13:30
yanyanhuit could be13:30
yanyanhuactually the same situation for message notification13:30
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elynnIt might be...13:30
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Qimingso we need to create an endpoint for zaqar to invoke anyway, right?13:31
yanyanhuyes, Qiming13:32
Qimingthat endpoint, for zaqar, is a webhook?13:32
yanyanhuit's for subscriber13:32
yanyanhuQiming, yes, currently, zaqar supports two types of subscriber, webhook and mail13:32
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Qimingit is not like we create a listener, hook it to some target, topic then get notified?13:33
yanyanhuit doesn't work as message broker13:33
Qimingsigh, that is not a message queue13:33
elynnare we going to port webhook based on zaqar?13:33
yanyanhuanother kind of message service13:33
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yanyanhuelynn, that could be possible, but the use case will be different13:34
Qimingsounds like it could be13:34
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yanyanhusince for message type of receiver, user will send message to zaqar queue to trigger action13:34
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yanyanhuby for webhook type of receiver, user directly send http request to trigger action13:34
Qimingthat step we don't care in our code, though we can document it in senlin tutorial13:35
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yanyanhufor the former one, zaqar will stay between enduser and senlin to transimit message13:35
Qimingfor senlin, the only difference is that the zaqar is playing the user's role, invoking our webhook13:35
yanyanhuQiming, you mean?13:35
yanyanhuQiming, yes13:35
yanyanhujust zaqar actually can do more13:36
yanyanhuincluding some security help13:36
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elynnthat's great13:36
Qimingokay, so we can somehow extend webhook to accommodate it?13:36
yanyanhuI can't find the link, but zaqar team are now working on a new feature called authenticated subscription notification13:36
yanyanhusomething like this13:36
yanyanhucan't recall the exact name13:37
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Qimingem, sounds an interesting feature13:37
Qimingjust like the semi-autoscaling scenario previously mentioned by chuck13:37
yanyanhuyes, with it, the subscriber, e.g. senlin can choose to reject notification from zaqar which is triggered by message posting13:38
Qimingthere are things out of senlin's domain13:38
yanyanhuQiming, yes, I think so13:38
QimingPOST webhooks/{webhook_id}/trigger13:38
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yanyanhuno sure this feature will be completely support after newton cycle13:39
Qimingwith a body and/or params13:39
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yanyanhubut it is very useful I think13:39
Qimingis zaqar providing some additional info in the request body or header?13:39
yanyanhuno, sadly...13:39
yanyanhuzaqar simply send post request to subscriber url with fixed body13:40
Qimingso that we know that is a notification different from others?13:40
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Qimingthen maybe we can just extend webhook middleware/api?13:40
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yanyanhuI think there should be information embedded in the request body13:40
Qimingdo hope so13:41
yanyanhubut I don't think user can customize the notification13:41
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yanyanhuwill do more investigation on it13:41
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Qimingokay, thanks13:41
yanyanhuactually, the control bar provide by zaqar is mainly supported using "claim"13:41
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Qimingem, needs some experimentation on it13:42
Qimingif their docs are not so great13:42
yanyanhuwhich is a kind of "initiative" message grasping from queue13:42
yanyanhuyes, need more tests13:42
Qimingokay, that sounds something with value13:42
yanyanhuanyway, will focus on this in coming week13:42
yanyanhuand will also ask feilong for his suggestion13:43
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yanyanhuI think it is too late for him now :)13:43
yanyanhuwill contact him tomorrow13:43
Qimingyep, very too late, :)13:43
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Qimingokay, move on?13:43
Qiming#topic open discussions13:44
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussions (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:44
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Qimingso ttx has sent out notes about room requirements during barcelona summit13:44
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Qimingwe need to figure out how many sessions we need this time13:44
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yanyanhuyes, we need to figure out our work sessions13:45
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QimingI'll create an etherpad for soliciting ideas13:45
yanyanhuwill propose the idea13:45
Qimingwill let the team know13:45
elynnwill fill things in after you created it.13:45
yanyanhudo have something want to make f2f discussion13:45
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Qimingthe space is not so plentiful when compared to austin13:46
yanyanhuyes... seems so13:46
yanyanhuhope can get chance to travel, haha13:46
QimingSenlin: 1fb, 5wr, cm:half13:46
Qimingthat is the data from austin, we had 1 fishbowl, 5 working room and half day committer meetup13:47
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Qimingthe last session is almost useless, would rather spend that half day talking to other teams13:47
yanyanhucross team communication is important13:48
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Qiming#action Qiming to create an etherpad for design summit session proposals13:48
yanyanhuvery helpful to talk some important issues and reach concensus13:48
yanyanhuthanks, Qiming13:48
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Qimingeven there is no conclusion, communication is still .... as usual ... sometimes .... useless13:49
Qimingdid I say useless?13:49
QimingI meant useful13:49
yanyanhuthat's sad, but true sometimes...13:49
elynnTalking about cross team communication, I remember haiwei mentioned that tacker will try to use senlin in their project13:49
elynnNot sure how is that going.13:50
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yanyanhuoh, right, hope can get a chance to talk with tacker team13:50
yanyanhuI just didn't find the bp which was approved13:50
Qimingit will save their a lot energy doing things not aligned to the core value of tacker13:52
yanyanhuhave the same feeling13:52
Qimingbut, it is still an open community, people decides what they want to do13:53
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Qiminggood news from brian just now: "I'm back to work today so I will get caught up on reviews and do a release asap. I'll let you know when it happens.13:53
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Qiminganything else?13:54
yanyanhuwill propose new patchset for zaqar claim support asap tomorrow13:54
yanyanhunope from me13:54
elynnHope we can get our patches in before cutting a new release.13:54
Qimingyes, let's make it happen13:55
elynnno more from me :)13:55
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Qimingalright, thanks for joining13:55
yanyanhuthanks, have good night13:55
Qimingit's late, good night13:55
zzxwillThanks, good night.13:55
elynngood night all:)13:55
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"13:55
openstackMeeting ended Tue Aug 23 13:55:52 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)13:55
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-08-23-13.00.html13:55
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-08-23-13.00.txt13:55
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-08-23-13.00.log.html13:55
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saggi#starmeeting karbor15:01
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saggi#startmeeting karbor15:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Aug 23 15:01:44 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is saggi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: karbor)"15:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'karbor'15:01
saggiHi everyone15:01
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saggiHow are we all doing?15:02
yuvalgreat :)15:02
saggiThere are no suggested items in the agenda15:03
saggiSo I'll jump straight to:15:03
saggi#topic open discussion15:03
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yuvalthe rename is in process15:03
yuvalopenstack infra has a meeting today later, which I won't be able to attend15:03
saggiAt what time?15:04
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yuvalhopefully we will have the rename window soon15:04
yuval19:00 utc15:04
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saggiDo we need representation there?15:05
saggiSo we need to ask the to do something?15:06
yuvalit is supposed to be on their agenda15:06
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saggiIt's at 22:00 IST15:06
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saggiI'll try and be there15:06
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saggiI'll be in front of the computer anyway15:07
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yuvalthat's it15:07
saggiDo you want me to ask them something?15:07
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saggiabout requirements.txt ?15:07
yuvalNot really15:08
saggiHow we should handle those problems?15:08
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yuvalthat's it?15:09
yuvalsaggi: ?15:10
saggiyuval: pinged you on os-dev15:11
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anteayadon't expect an infra rename window soon15:12
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anteayait requires a gerrit downtime which we won't schedule until after feature freeze for sure and may be longer than that15:12
anteayabut yes, attending the infra meeting will help15:12
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saggianteaya: What kind of timeline are we talking about?15:13
anteayaunknown, putting something on the infra meeting agenda and attending is the best way to find out15:13
anteayawe haven't discussed it in a while15:13
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saggiI assume renames are not that common15:14
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saggiIf there is nothing else, I'll wait here a bit to see if someone is going to come late.15:17
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saggiThe western hemisphere meetings are much quieter but this is when most unexpected guests show up. :)15:18
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saggiOK, thanks everyone15:29
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:29
openstackMeeting ended Tue Aug 23 15:29:12 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:29
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-08-23-15.01.html15:29
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-08-23-15.01.txt15:29
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-08-23-15.01.log.html15:29
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sridhar_ram#startmeeting tacker16:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Aug 23 16:01:49 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is sridhar_ram. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.16:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:01
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tacker'16:01
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sridhar_ram#topic Roll Call16:01
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sridhar_ramHi folks, who is here?16:02
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sridhar_ramGreetings everyone!16:02
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sridhar_ramlet's start...16:03
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sridhar_ram#topic Agenda16:03
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sridhar_ram#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Tacker#Meeting_Aug_23rd.2C_201616:03
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sridhar_ramthere are many items.. we will cover as much as possible today16:03
sridhar_ramobviously Newton release related things are higher priority16:04
sridhar_ram#topic Annoucements16:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Annoucements (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:04
sridhar_ramjanki: hi16:04
jankisridhar_ram, hey16:04
sridhar_ramI'm proposing to expand Tacker Core team with Yong Sheng Gong16:05
sridhar_ram#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-August/102126.html16:05
jankisridhar_ram, was just reading that of yours16:05
jankisridhar_ram, +1 from me16:05
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sridhar_ramPlease provide your inputs to the thread in the ML16:05
sridhar_rams3wong: ^^^ gongysh is proposed to joined to tacker-core16:06
s3wongsridhar_ram: that is great!16:06
s3wongsridhar_ram: he certainly has made the contributions and done a lot of reviews16:06
sridhar_ramhe is not in the channel due to the tz, which we need to fix the mtg timing - hopefully post newton release..16:06
sridhar_ramanything else to announce?16:07
sripriyasridhar_ram: tackerclient release?16:07
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sridhar_ramsripriya: yes, thanks for reminding..16:08
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sripriyasridhar_ram: np16:08
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sridhar_rama checkpoint tackerclient 0.6.0 is released now16:09
sridhar_ram#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-announce/2016-August/001461.html16:09
sridhar_ramThis includes auto-scaling and event-logging api changes..16:09
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sridhar_ramwe still need to wait for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/358612/ to merge for this to show in your nearest devstack :)16:10
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sridhar_ramNote, this is not the final new tackerclient release.. we will get to it shortly16:10
sridhar_ram#topic Newton Release Status16:10
*** openstack changes topic to "Newton Release Status (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:10
sridhar_ramWe just have 3 days left to make your final tackerclient changes for Newton..16:11
sridhar_ram#link http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/to?iso=20160826T11&p0=283&msg=Tacker+Client+Release&font=slab16:11
digasridhar_ram: https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-tackerclient/+bug/1524243 - pending on me, will push the patch in sometime16:11
openstackLaunchpad bug 1524243 in python-tackerclient "infra driver is fixed by python tacker client" [High,New] - Assigned to Digambar (digambarpatil15)16:11
sridhar_ramdiga: looking up16:11
digasridhar_ram: was on vacation in the last week so got late, sorry for that16:12
sridhar_ramdiga: that is a biggee, we need that deprecation warning to merge .. this is a MUST do16:12
digasridhar_ram: yes, I am pushing in next half an hour16:13
sridhar_ramdiga: thanks, again .. the scope is just to throw deprecation warnings for mgmt_driver and infra_driver in the API16:13
sripriyadiga: will you be handling mgmt_driver deprecation as well?16:13
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sripriyadiga: thanks16:13
sridhar_ramsripriya: it make sense to do this in one shot..16:13
sripriyasridhar_ram: regarding https://bugs.launchpad.net/tacker/+bug/159136116:14
openstackLaunchpad bug 1591361 in tacker "Fix data handling for vnfd, config and param yaml templates" [Medium,New] - Assigned to Janki Chhatbar (jankihchhatbar)16:14
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digasripriya: np16:14
sripriyasridhar_ram: yes16:14
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sripriyasridhar_ram: are we only looking for deprecation warning to go into newton?16:14
jankisripriya, as of yesterday's discussion with sridhar_ram, we decided to move it to Ocata16:14
digaNo, we have decided to remove those16:15
jankisridhar_ram, sripriya, the above mentioned bug16:15
sridhar_ramsripriya: let's quickly recap as there is some confusion here...16:16
digajanki: wait wait, lets finish on one thing16:16
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jankidiga, I replied to the sripriya's comment on bug 159136116:16
openstackbug 1591361 in tacker "Fix data handling for vnfd, config and param yaml templates" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1591361 - Assigned to Janki Chhatbar (jankihchhatbar)16:16
sridhar_ramsripriya: janki: we *cannot* deprecate the current attributes: carrying raw-string vnfd until we introduce the vnfd: <json>16:16
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sripriyasridhar_ram: okay got it16:17
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sridhar_ramdiga: the deprecation related to the one you are handling .. mgmt_driver and infra_driver .. are orthogonal to this discussion16:17
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sridhar_ramsripriya: janki: my current sense is we are cutting too close to make this API change this late, until you folks can convince me this is a fairly a trivial change that can be handled in next couple of days16:18
sridhar_ramsripriya: janki: thoughts ?16:18
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jankisridhar_ram, lets move it to ocata16:19
sripriyasridhar_ram: let me evaluate the changes today and get back?16:20
sridhar_ramsripriya: sure..16:20
jankifrom what Isee, there is no deprecation involved. completing removing "string" and adding "json" should be done16:20
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sridhar_ramjanki: we *cannot* remove string attributes:vnfd .. that is by API policy, we never remove .. we can only deprecate in release X and remove it in release X+116:21
sridhar_ramjanki: there are users who are using Tacker directly using its API.. not just the tackerclient CLIs16:21
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sridhar_ramjanki: we cannot break them16:22
jankisridhar_ram, ohh, ohk. So adding just the dperecation warning should'nt take much time.16:22
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jankisridhar_ram, it would be just a line in client.py right?16:22
sridhar_ramjanki: let sripriya take a swag at this .. and we can go from there16:23
jankisridhar_ram, sure :)16:23
sridhar_ramwe need to get to other things in this mtg16:23
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sridhar_ramFolks - if you see anything in https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/python-tackerclient .. that needs to go into Newton.. please flag it to the core team ASAP16:24
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sridhar_ramotherwise, it will miss Newton!16:24
sridhar_ramFrom my scan, https://review.openstack.org/341389 (VNFFG client) is the significant pending this..16:25
sridhar_ramand the two issues we discussed today - diga's deprecation fix and json vnfd16:25
sridhar_ramanything else with client impacting change?16:25
sridhar_ram#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/tacker-newton-release-priority16:25
sridhar_ramLooking at ^^^16:26
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sridhar_ramsripriya: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/344592/ - is this a must do for Newton ?16:27
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sripriyasridhar_ram: i’m not sure when exactly will the keystoneclient lib will be removed in favor of keystoneauth116:28
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sridhar_ramsripriya: then i would punt this to Ocata.. we have enough in the plate now16:28
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sripriyasridhar_ram: there is no specific release mentioned in the deprecation bp16:29
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sripriyasridhar_ram: so yes, we can move this to Ocata16:29
sripriyasridhar_ram: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/python-keystoneclient/+spec/deprecate-to-ksa16:29
sridhar_ramsripriya: okay, lets punt!16:29
sridhar_ramMoving to areas beyond client, auto-scaling and event-log has merged..16:29
sridhar_ramVNFFG and alarm-monitoring are pending16:29
sridhar_ramthey have few weeks to wrap it up..16:30
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sridhar_ramTeam - please continue to help out picking https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/tacker-newton-release-priority16:30
jankiVNFFG horizon support patch in review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/347779/16:31
sridhar_rambobh: any heads from the tosca-parser / heat-translator world for Newton ?16:31
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sridhar_ram*heads up16:31
sridhar_ramjanki: again, we have 2 - 3 week window to wrap it up16:31
bobhsridhar_ram: nothing major that I know of - substitution_mapping is in the works I believe, otherwise just minir features16:31
sridhar_rambobh: thanks..16:31
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jankisridhar_ram, yes. Just pointed it. No other intentions :)16:32
tbhsridhar_ram, bobh substituion_mappings initial patch got merged16:32
sridhar_ramjanki: sure, no worries :)16:32
sridhar_rambobh: I know KanagarajM is looking for a heat-translator change to fix a bug in auto-scaling .. this fix is needed for selective VDU scaling, which is a must do Newton16:33
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sridhar_ramtbh: bobh: if you folks can help to guide that fix in heat-trans side, that would greatly help16:33
sridhar_ramanything else on Newton ?16:34
tbhsridhar_ram, sure16:34
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sridhar_ramtopic Barcelona Design Summit space16:35
* sridhar_ram expects this to be a quick one16:36
sridhar_ramCurrently we are allocated "Tacker: 1fb, 3wr, cm:half"16:36
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sridhar_ramwhich translates to 1 big Fishbowl slots, 3 Working Session and 1 Contributor meetup16:36
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sridhar_ramI think this is more than enough..16:36
sridhar_ramanyone thinks we need more?16:37
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sridhar_ramI'm going w/ no.. unless i hear any specific ask16:37
sridhar_rammoving on..16:37
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sridhar_ram#topic Late Newton BPs16:38
*** openstack changes topic to "Late Newton BPs (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:38
sridhar_ram#info VNF create with direct TOSCA template input16:38
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sridhar_ram#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tacker/+spec/vnf-inline-template16:38
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sridhar_ramThis has been a blocked for some NFVOs to start using Tacker as the VNFM16:39
sridhar_ramcurrently they need to push a VNFD first, followed by a vnf-create..16:39
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sridhar_ramthis BP is asking to support a vnf-create where VNFD template is passed in ..16:39
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sridhar_ram.. no VNFD template is pre-populated..16:40
sridhar_ramthoughts ?16:40
sridhar_rambobh: <poke>16:40
bobhsridhar_ram: sorry, got pulled away - let me catch16:40
sridhar_rambobh: np16:41
s3wongsorry, guys. Need to drop off; will read the log later16:41
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sripriyasridhar_ram: will this tomorrow be applicable for vnffg too?16:41
bobhsridhar_ram: seems like a reasonable request - could always put it into the catalog and deploy it all in one motion16:41
sridhar_ramsripriya: hmm, good question..16:41
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vishwanathjif the VNFD is not stored in the catalog, will there be a column in VNF that will capture the VNFD info?16:42
sridhar_rambobh: .. it would be nice, if the template doesn't even gets into the catalog16:42
sridhar_ramvishwanathj: yes, it need to be16:43
vishwanathjok, then it makes sense16:43
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sridhar_ramanyone see a major risk to approve it this late.. ?16:43
sripriyasridhar_ram: so this is a separate workflow other than catalog management16:43
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sridhar_ramsripriya: yes..16:43
sridhar_ramsripriya: a one short usage of tacker - to directly get to vnf-create..16:44
mike_mHi, isn't this more of an optimization of api calling?16:44
sridhar_ramthe assumption is the required mgmt-drivers and mon-drivers are already in place16:44
vishwanathjwould this also support providing a params file along with VNFD template?16:44
sripriyasridhar_ram: ok, but we will not save this to catalog db. just to understand this clearly16:44
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sridhar_rammike_m: agree, you can look at this that way.. basically use one API to get both info but in the backend do the two operation that we do today16:45
bobhsridhar_ram: this could be done via shell script wrapper16:45
mike_mtrue, or get the NVFO to do the 2 calls16:45
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sridhar_rammike_m: that doesn't gel well for the NFVO workflow, where we can expect *every* vnf-create to turn into {vnfd-create + vnf-create} .. there will be *ton* of VNFD catalog entries in the Tacker.. which will be ugly16:47
mike_mok I understand the use case better16:47
bobhsridhar_ram: they want custom VNFDs for every VNF deployment?16:47
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sridhar_rambobh: not necessarily, they don't want Tacker to host a Catalog. these are maintained in either in NFVO or at times even a component adjacent to NFVO16:48
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bobhsridhar_ram: ok - interesting use case16:49
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tbhsridhar_ram, but is it not deviating from the standard?16:49
sridhar_ramthis goes into the realm of delivering a "version" of Tacker that is purely a "VNFM" .. no NFVO-ish creep16:49
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sridhar_ramtbh: not necessarily, we have smudged the layering a bit already.. infact, remember we discussed a bit more pure NFVO-VNFM separation in the midcycle ?16:50
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sripriyasridhar_ram: + catalog separation16:51
bobhsridhar_ram: so are there standard APIs that decouple the two, so VNFM/vnf-create would always accept a VNFD from the NFVO side?16:51
sridhar_ramsripriya: yep16:51
sridhar_rambobh: there is no API standardization, AFAIK.. there is an effort in OPNFV to do that though..16:51
sridhar_rambobh: we should present Tacker's API as one of the seeds for that effort16:52
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* sridhar_ram notes 8mins left in the mtg16:52
sridhar_ramoverall, looks we might need more time to discuss this .. perhaps a tacker-specs is warranted to discuss this through ?16:53
mike_myes I agree16:53
sridhar_rammike_m: okay..16:53
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sridhar_ramback to nfvo-vnfm separation, again from the midcycle, we envisioned a possible subproject within official Tacker umbrella to move all NFVO-ish feature out of the VNFM portions16:54
sridhar_ramsomething for you all to think about :)16:54
sridhar_ramgithub.com/openstack/tacker-nfvo :)16:55
tbhsridhar_ram, are we ignoring client sides changes or we also include as apart of this BP?16:55
tbh*as part16:55
sridhar_ramtbh: thats where the bind is.. as there will be API / client changes..16:55
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sridhar_ramtbh: i think this is practically impossible for Newton..16:56
tbhsridhar_ram, yup I think so16:56
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sridhar_ramI know we touched a bit of Ocata.. which is natural consider where we are and the right thing to do16:57
sridhar_ramlet's take up Ocata grooming next week16:57
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sridhar_ramone major thing I'd like to bring up for Ocata track .. is decomposed vim-drivers (infra_driver)..16:57
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sridhar_ram.. so that we can start supporting many of them16:58
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sridhar_ramQuickly on VNFC ..16:58
sridhar_ram#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/339798/16:58
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sridhar_ramanyone have issues to approve this with a scope only to support Heat SoftwareComponent ?16:59
tbhand also implementation https://review.openstack.org/#/c/358321/16:59
sridhar_ramwell, we are out of time for today..16:59
sridhar_ramlets take it up in gerrit16:59
sridhar_ramthere is no client changes for VNFC.. so there is room16:59
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sridhar_rambobh: mike_m: please review above vnfc spec17:00
sridhar_ramthanks everyone17:00
bobhsridhar_ram: will do17:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Aug 23 17:00:19 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:00
mike_mwill do17:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-08-23-16.01.html17:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-08-23-16.01.txt17:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-08-23-16.01.log.html17:00
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mmedvede#startmeeting third-party17:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Aug 23 17:01:30 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is mmedvede. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)"17:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'third_party'17:01
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mmedvedeanyone around for third-party CI WG meeting?17:02
ja3I yam17:02
mmedvedeI just realized the date was wrong in the agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ThirdParty#Agenda_for_next_Working_Group_meeting17:02
mmedvedeso fixed17:02
mmedvedehi ja317:02
ja3pish posh who pays that much attn to agenda contents? shirley not me.17:02
mmedvedethere is no agenda other than standard topics :)17:03
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mmedvede#topic Open Discussion17:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: third-party)"17:04
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asselini don't have any topics to discuss17:05
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mmedvedeme neither. Slow time lately for CIs17:06
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ja3we're still chasing internal problems and scaling limits (in our own code)17:06
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mmedvedebusiness as usual then :)17:08
mmedvedeour CI keeps running into problems with zuul17:09
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mmedvedejust have to watch it. Hoped it would be more stable at 2.5 tag17:09
mmedvedememory leak seem to have gone, which is good17:10
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mmedvedeI'll keep the meeting open for a bit, in case someone with questions shows up17:13
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mmedvedethanks for attending17:21
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:21
openstackMeeting ended Tue Aug 23 17:21:35 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:21
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-08-23-17.01.html17:21
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-08-23-17.01.txt17:21
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dolphmajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, crinkle, claudiub, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, gagehugo, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, jaugustine, joesavak, jorge_munoz, knikolla, lbragstad, MaxPC, morgan, nkinder, notmorgan, raildo, rodrigods, rderose, roxanaghe, samleon, samueldmq, shaleh, stevemar, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong, xek, nishaYadav: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/key18:00
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dolphmi assume stevemar is still planning to be lazy18:01
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bknudsonhe's off partying18:01
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dolphmalrighty then18:01
knikollao/ hello!18:01
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dolphm#startmeeting keystone18:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Aug 23 18:01:57 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is dolphm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:01
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:02
dolphm#topic fishbowls / work rooms / meetups18:02
*** openstack changes topic to "fishbowls / work rooms / meetups (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:02
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dolphmso, this summit is going to be layed out a bit differently (as i suppose every summit is), but the schedule is also going to be a bit cramped18:02
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dolphmso, we're being asked to choose the last few details of our schedule18:02
dolphmto quote the agenda: In Austin we had 5 fish bowl sessions, 8 work room sessions; 2 half-day meetups18:02
ayoungHere we have one 15 minute meeting18:03
ayoungOf which 12 minutes are already booked18:03
bknudson3 minutes to get started...18:03
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lbragstadsounds like my kinda meeting18:03
samueldmqhi keystoners!18:03
dolphmwe don't have a summit planning etherpad yet, do we?18:03
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gagehugoI haven't seen one yet18:04
dolphmwithout one, does anyone recall us having too many / not enough fish bowls and/or work rooms in austin?18:04
dolphmotherwise, i assume we can aim for the same basic schedule regarding bucket topics18:05
ayoungLets blow it off and go rock climbing in the Pyrenees18:05
dolphmwe know where to find ayoung on monday :)18:05
jamielennoxi cant' really rock climb, but sangria on the other hand...18:05
dolphmthe biggest outstanding question regarding schedule that we have is whether we want to have a contributor meetup on *friday afternoon* -- it's the only available time slot18:06
dolphmtypically, a lot of people start flying out sometime after lunch on friday18:06
bknudsonjamielennox can hold the rope in one hand and sangria in the other.18:06
knikollai'll probably leave friday morning, friday afternoon/evening flights were crazy expensive18:06
dolphmso this is basically a question for those of you that have already booked travel - will you be available and interested in having a contributor meetup on friday afternoon?18:06
lbragstadthey are useful if you can make it but it's always subject to travel plans :/18:06
ayoungbknudson, Sangria will go in a Camelback I think.18:06
* breton will stay till Sunday18:06
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* rodrigods Monday to Friday18:07
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* amakarov will stay for weekend18:07
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samueldmqdolphm: could Thursday night work?18:08
samueldmqlooks like everyone will still be there18:08
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ayoungsamueldmq, hard to have a meetup over the sound of Flamenco Guitarres18:08
dolphmsamueldmq: this is our only wiggle room in the schedule18:08
dolphm#callvote FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVE ALREADY BOOKED TRAVEL, will you be available AND interested in a contributor meetup on Friday afternoon (say, 1-5pm)? Yes, No, I didn't read the question, I haven't booked travel, What is a contributor meetup again?18:09
dolphm#startvote FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVE ALREADY BOOKED TRAVEL, will you be available AND interested in a contributor meetup on Friday afternoon (say, 1-5pm)? Yes, No, I didn't read the question, I haven't booked travel, What is a contributor meetup again?18:09
openstackBegin voting on: FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVE ALREADY BOOKED TRAVEL, will you be available AND interested in a contributor meetup on Friday afternoon (say, 1-5pm)? Yes, No, I didn't read the question, I haven't booked travel, What is a contributor meetup again? Valid vote options are Yes, No.18:09
openstackVote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.18:09
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henrynash#vote  Yes18:09
* dolphm has not booked travel so i'll abstain18:09
amakarov#vote yes18:09
rderose#vote yes18:09
lbragstadI haven't booked so I'll abstain as well18:10
* jamielennox will be around friday night regardless18:10
rderoseI haven't booked travel, but plan to18:10
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ayoung#vote  I haven't booked travel18:10
samueldmq#vote I haven't booked travel18:10
gagehugo#vote I haven't booked travel18:10
lbragstaddolphm when do we have to have an answer?18:10
ezpz#vote I haven't booked travel18:10
henrynash#vote I haven't booked travel18:10
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dolphmlbragstad: within a couple days, i think18:10
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dolphmlbragstad: we had time to take a vote here, and that was about it IIRC18:10
dolphmmaybe til end of week?18:11
dolphmbut it sounds like a yes so far18:11
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knikolla#vote no18:11
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dstanek#vote I haven't booked travel18:11
breton#vote I didn't  read the question, I haven't booked travel, What is a contributor meetup again?18:11
lbragstadi assume that if we commit to a meetup, we would get a room and stuff like that18:11
dolphmlbragstad: yes18:11
ayoungThis trip is between my Wife's Birthday and Haloween, making it hard for me to extend on either end.18:12
openstackVoted on "FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVE ALREADY BOOKED TRAVEL, will you be available AND interested in a contributor meetup on Friday afternoon (say, 1-5pm)? Yes, No, I didn't read the question, I haven't booked travel, What is a contributor meetup again?" Results are18:12
henrynash#vote Yes18:12
samueldmqare the results showing up for you ?18:12
samueldmqI can't see them ... is the bot broken?18:12
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ayoungdolphm killed the votebot dolphm killed the votebot18:13
dolphmsamueldmq: the bot is holding us in anticipation18:13
knikollano results, but it looks like a yes18:13
dolphmwhatever, it's a yes18:13
dolphm3 vs 1 IIRC18:13
samueldmqc'mmon openstack18:13
dolphmnow, everybody go book travel :)18:13
jaugustinethe suspense !18:13
* lbragstad pats votebot on the shoulder 18:13
dolphmnow onto more pressing matters...18:14
dolphm#topic Release status18:14
*** openstack changes topic to "Release status (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:14
dolphmthe gate has been rough lately, so please get things gating!18:14
dolphmAll feature work and high priority bugs should be approved or gating by friday, the gate is crazy backed up18:14
bknudsongate backup started early this time.18:14
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dolphmif you're looking for something to review (and want to get a heads up on using our new rolling upgrades approach), review credential encryption... which has the most outstanding patch sets to be merged of the remaining bps: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/credential-encryption18:15
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lbragstadhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/355618/14 is the most indepth review18:16
lbragstadthe rest are pretty trivial and documentation18:16
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dolphm#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/355618/18:16
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dolphm(removed the patchset from the link)18:16
lbragstadi would be forever grateful for reviews on the database triggers18:16
lbragstaddstanek thanks18:16
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dstaneklbragstad: you're welcome anyway18:17
dolphmthe mapping_populate patch needs a nudge (last I looked, I +2'd, but the release notes needed a rev)18:17
dolphm#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/343028/18:17
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dolphmand while lbragstad is pre-occupied knocking out credential encryption, we could use some hands to performance validate amakarov's patch18:17
dolphm#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/309146/18:17
ayoungI can18:18
dolphmand then we have a nasty list of bugs18:18
ayoungI'll look at both18:18
samueldmq"The patch uses dogpile.cache internal functionality so some calls may look strange"18:18
henrynashon triggers/rolling upgrade, also look at: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/357789/18:18
dolphmhenrynash: ++18:19
amakarovsamueldmq: say you like it ))18:19
dstanekmy cache invalidation patch could use some eyes too18:19
dolphm#topic steve's list of big bad hairy bugs18:19
*** openstack changes topic to "steve's list of big bad hairy bugs (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:19
dstanek#link https://review.openstack.org/349704 Distributed cache namespace to invalidate regions18:19
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dolphmdefinitely the nastiest, widest impact bug we have right now18:20
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dolphmand then henry's rolling upgrade fix is on steve's list18:22
dolphm#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/159650018:22
openstackLaunchpad bug 1596500 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "Passwords created_at attribute could remain unset during rolling upgrade" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Henry Nash (henry-nash)18:22
dolphmthere's some good background there before you dive into the code review18:22
dolphmwhich uses rolling upgrades :)18:22
amakarovif for some reason dstanek's patch won't go, here is the old way approach: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/354831/18:22
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dolphmrderose got another major bug fixed in https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1615000 (thanks!)18:23
openstackLaunchpad bug 1615000 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "Entry to User table creates entries in local_user table for ldap and custom driver users" [High,Fix released] - Assigned to Ron De Rose (ronald-de-rose)18:23
samueldmqrderose:  nice!18:23
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dolphmand then, if you're looking for something to work on -- we still have a couple that need to be investigated & debugged further18:23
dolphm#link https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/newton-318:23
rderosesamueldmq dolphm: thank you :)18:24
dolphmthey all seem related, but again, the impact could be substantial, so the more eyes the better18:24
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dolphmhas anyone kept up with bugs opened recently?18:25
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lbragstadI have not :(18:25
rodrigodsdolphm, latest one i remember was the credential type18:25
rodrigodsfix was approved already18:25
lbragstadfwiw - here is our weekly report - http://openstack-weekly-reports.lbragstad.com/keystone-weekly-bug-report.html18:25
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samueldmqlbragstad: ++18:26
dolphmi'm going to pick up the fernet key one - that's something i poked at recently anyway18:26
dolphm#topic Outreachy program in Keystone ends today18:27
*** openstack changes topic to "Outreachy program in Keystone ends today (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:27
dolphmsamueldmq: nishaYadav: o/18:27
dolphmfloor is yours18:27
nishaYadavhey :)18:27
samueldmqso, nishaYadav has been working with us in the last couple of months18:28
rodrigodsreally good work by nishaYadav and samueldmq18:28
samueldmqwe were participating of the Outreachy round (which ends today)18:28
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nishaYadavthanks rodrigods18:28
samueldmqnishaYadav has implemented functional tests in ksclient, now most of v3 managers have tests18:28
samueldmqrodrigods: thx18:28
bretonsamueldmq: interesting, GSoC ends today too18:28
samueldmqbesides the tests, nisha has improved the docs too!18:28
samueldmqit's been >30 patches merged!18:29
dolphmnishaYadav: your patches were a pleasure to review (and approve!)18:29
nishaYadavbreton, yeah that's right outreachy and GSoc run in parallel :)18:29
bknudsongreat work. It'll be running multiple times a day keeping keystone working.18:29
samueldmqI just would like to tell everyone the round was succcessful for keystone18:29
dstanekthat's great. looks like a success for keystone then!18:29
samueldmqand thanks nishaYadav for her awesome work18:29
rderosenishaYadav: thank you!18:29
dstaneknishaYadav: thanks!18:29
anteayanice work, nishaYadav18:30
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gagehugothanks nishaYadav!18:30
rodrigodskeep contributing nishaYadav !18:30
nishaYadavthanks samueldmq for bringing this up in the meeting :)18:30
samueldmqthanks to everyone who helped me mentoring her .. and reviewing her work18:30
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dolphm#info Thank you for all your awesome work, Nisha Yadav!18:30
nishaYadavI am glad I worked on this project.18:30
dolphmthere, now it'll be buried in your google results somewhere :)18:31
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nishaYadavdolphm, rderose anteaya gagehugo rodrigods thanks a lot18:31
ayoungwell done18:31
dolphm#topic Open discussion18:31
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:31
dolphmthat's all on the official agenda - anyone have anything else for today?18:32
ayoungSo...got one18:32
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nishaYadavrodrigods, can't thank you enought :D18:32
anteaya<-- has an item18:32
bretonwhat do you think about storing quota in keystone?18:32
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ayoungbreton, nope18:32
ayoungbreton, has come up many times18:32
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ayoungit is not the right place for it18:32
ayoungeverytime, we've gone around the same race track18:32
amakarovayoung: separate service?18:32
dstanekbreton: if it's not identity related we shouldn't we involved18:33
ayoungthe quotas are service specific items.  They don't have enough commonality18:33
amakarovdstanek: it's project related (18:33
ayoungyou need a way todistribute them18:33
dolphmbreton: i'd love to see a centralized quota management service, and it could be under the identity umbrella, but i don't think keystone itself is the right service18:33
nishaYadavI plan on keep contributing and hopefully meet you all in the upcoming OpenStack summit :)18:33
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dolphmit's an authorization problem, which is our wheelhouse18:33
dstanekamakarov: it's not though. it's maybe a 'foreign key' to a project with serivce specific meaning18:33
ayoungIts a billing problem18:34
dolphmayoung: turns out we own the tenants :P i mean projects18:34
samueldmqnishaYadav: ++18:34
amakarovdolphm: ++18:34
ayoungDoes that make us slumlords?18:35
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dolphmayoung: .. yes.18:35
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amakarovayoung: helllords!18:35
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ayoungOK, so lets discuss at the summit. If we do centralized quota, we need to decide what that means18:35
dolphmi think it's a complicated, valuable problem with it's own scaling concerns, so it makes sense to me to have it as a standalone service18:36
dolphmit's also something i wish someone had built 5 years ago18:36
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shalehdolphm: ++ to all of that18:36
dolphmanteaya: don't hold back, it's an open floor18:37
ayoungOK...I have one, if we are done with that18:37
dolphmayoung: sure18:37
anteayawe discussed meetbot in infra18:37
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ayoungSpec to ignore expiry and revocation on token validation18:37
dolphmanteaya: about me breaking it?18:37
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anteayait seems that it doesn't like two spaces when expecting one18:37
anteayaalso it is case sensitive18:37
ayoungIt would be an incremental step toward what jamielennox was proposing at the midcycle18:37
anteayait didn't feel it got any vote information18:37
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anteayawe are discussing making it case insensitive in -infra18:38
anteayafeel free to share your thoughts18:38
anteayathank you18:38
dolphmdid i double space something?18:38
anteayasomeone did18:38
ayoungthe gist is this:18:38
jamielennoxayoung: oh - i still was intending to do that, i just had too much on directly after the midcycle to get it done for this release18:38
anteayathe only case correct vote18:38
jamielennoxayoung: was still planning on it for early next cycle18:39
ayoungwe would allow, say, glance, to validate the user's token passed along with the service token, but ignore the expiry or revoke status,18:39
anteayathe options were Yes and No, most folks used all lover case18:39
notmorgano/ ish18:39
jamielennoxayoung: turns out the auth_token middleware is the hard bit, just because of the framework that's built there18:39
ayoungso if Nova called Glance, we would have the mechanism18:39
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ayoungjamielennox, yep18:39
dolphmanteaya: ah, i do wish the vote responses were case insensitive, or numbered? (which might also require a direct reply to show you what option you selected)18:39
bretoncan we just sign requests from Nova to Glance? We already have x.509 authn in place18:39
ayoungjamielennox, one thing I was thinking was we could first get this part working, and then optimize with bulk token validations.  Bulk meaning two here18:39
anteayawell it appears that making it case insensitive is on the table18:40
anteayado speak up in -infra18:40
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ayoungjamielennox, I thought we already had a mechanism to account for service tokens?18:40
anteayabut that was why there were no results18:40
jamielennoxayoung: we do, but it's just treated as a seperate validation request18:41
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ayoungbreton, so...even if we did, glance still needs to validate that the user has perms to do what nova is asking on behalf of the user18:41
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jamielennoxayoung: just the way auth_token is setup, and keystone relies on it being set up, there's no way to pass through multiple tokens at once18:41
ayoungjamielennox, I think that is fine to start, then18:41
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jamielennoxayoung: but that should be just some delicate code reshuffling18:41
dolphmdid we have an argument / alternative to the "Return expired tokens within a grace period" option?18:41
dolphm#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/345092/18:42
ayoungwe use service token for Nova, and pass the token as per normal, and glance needs the config to say "validate both, but on user pass this flag."18:42
dolphmayoung: the flag being "ignore expiration on this second token?"18:42
bretonayoung: what if we sign a token and skip revocation for the token if it is signed18:42
ayoungdolphm, this is essentially the spec for that, but didn't realize we had a review18:43
dolphmi didn't realize there was a spec18:43
ayoungbreton, ++  that is part of it18:43
jamielennoxdolphm: i had some code i was messing with, but its not up as i wasn't going to get it finished this cycle18:43
ayoungdolphm, I think there is a need for an API change, which is why I posted the spec18:43
ayounganyway, pleae hack on the spec, and make the APi code sane.18:44
jamielennoxthe code is pretty easy really, just needs a few different pieces in place18:44
ayoungjamielennox, skipping revocation, too, please18:44
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lbragstadhenrynash still around?18:44
ayoungdeal with the Horizon-log-out problem18:44
jamielennoxi didn't change that18:44
henrynashlbragstad: hi18:44
ayoungdolphm, yes, that is the flag.18:45
jamielennoxi wouldn't have thought we would skip revocation18:45
ayoungjamielennox, yeah, I think we need to.18:45
lbragstadhenrynash dolphm and I were poking at an issue I was having when writing tests for the credential encryption migration18:45
lbragstadhenrynash wonder if you happen to see this at all? http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-keystone/%23openstack-keystone.2016-08-22.log.html#t2016-08-22T17:49:5818:45
dolphmthis thread also popped up on the mailing list, but hasn't gotten any love from us yet (there's no [keystone] in the subject line, so i'm assuming a lot of people missed it)18:45
dolphm#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-August/102012.html [openstack-dev] Mitaka: Identity V3 status and observations usingdomains18:45
ayoungjamielennox, if the project or role is revoked, the token should just not show those roles assigned, but an explicit revocation should be ignored, I think.18:46
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notmorganjamielennox: we do need to skip revocation because horizon logout is an explicit revoke18:46
henrynashlbragstad: so we do run the previous (legacy) migration first...18:46
notmorganwhich would cause things to fail18:46
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lbragstadhenrynash interesting...18:46
dolphmhenrynash: but that test suite does not18:46
lbragstadhenrynash when it gets into my migration that does things to the credential table - it doesn't think it exists18:47
henrynashlbragstad: ...at least that was my attempt...in fact, if we didn;t then my patch would also fail (since I refer to the password table)....and this DID fail until I added the code to first migrate the legacy repo18:47
lbragstadwhich wouldn't necessarily be caught because the 001 migration is a noop18:47
notmorgandolphm: i didn't even read that thread because no [<tag>] (emails without a tag get filtered out of my inbox completly18:47
dolphmnotmorgan: i figured18:47
lbragstadhenrynash did you add the code to migrate the legacy repo in your password migration patch?18:48
lbragstadhenrynash or is that somewhere else?18:48
henrynashlbragstad: look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/357789/ ...it would fail if we didn't run the legacy migration first18:48
lbragstadhenrynash because I'll need to probably rebase my work on taht too18:48
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henrynashlbragstad: nope it's alreayd in master...see lines 1532/33 of test_sql_upgrade18:49
* dolphm is looking to end the meeting early ...18:50
lbragstadhenrynash ah - the setUp of SqlExpandSchemaUpgradeTests18:50
henrynashas an aside, you should do self.upgrade(self.max_version) in your test, but you should do self.upgrade(2)18:50
dolphmlbragstad: henrynash: it's not a broad topic, so take it back to #openstack-keystone :)18:50
henrynashsorry...you shouldn't do self.upgrade(self.max_version) in your test, but you should do self.upgrade(2)18:50
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"18:50
openstackMeeting ended Tue Aug 23 18:50:52 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:50
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-08-23-18.01.html18:50
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-08-23-18.01.txt18:50
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openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-08-23-18.01.log.html18:50
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notmorganwait what... the meeting over early?!18:55
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anteayasaggi: after the docs in afs agenda item add "discuss next rename window (saggi)" as an agenda item please: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting18:57
anteayaor whatever words you like that means that18:58
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anteayabut puts it on the agenda18:58
saggianteaya: sure, thanks18:58
anteayathank you18:58
anteayaand thanks for attending18:59
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saggimy pleasure18:59
fungiinfra team, i bid you awaken and come forth!19:00
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fungitoday's exciting topics provided by fungi and jeblair19:00
anteayafungi: and saggi19:00
fungianteaya: thanks, i just refreshed and see it on there now19:00
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anteayaawesome, thank you19:00
fungitoday's exciting topics provided by fungi, jeblair _and_ saggi!19:00
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fungi#startmeeting infra19:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Aug 23 19:01:15 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:01
fungi#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting19:01
fungi#topic Announcements19:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)"19:01
fungi#info Reminder: late-cycle joint Infra/QA get together to be held September 19-21 (CW38) in at SAP offices in Walldorf, DE19:01
fungi#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Sprints/QAInfraNewtonSprint19:01
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fungilooks like there are a scant 5 slots remaining, so if you're going you should hurry up and put your name in the registration table on that wiki page (or else be confined to the standby waiting list!)19:01
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fungialso, as always, if you have announcements get them to me prior to the meeting so i can add them here19:02
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fungi#topic Actions from last meeting19:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:02
fungi#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-08-16-19.02.html19:02
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fungifungi Add [plugin "its-storyboard"] enabled = true to All-Projects config per https://review.openstack.org/34748619:02
fungii've done it, and also proposed the documentation update for it19:02
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fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/358250 Document use of its-storyboard in Gerrit config19:02
fungircarrillocruz launch new 30gb review-dev and add an appropriately sized cinder volume for ~gerrit2/review_site19:02
fungii think i saw in scrollback that ianw was working on that some last night?19:02
ianwso ...19:02
ianwi've added a larger cinder volume and migrated ~gerrit2 to that on review-dev19:03
fungiooh, awesome19:03
ianwbut launch-node.py doesn't work?19:03
ianwthe new host comes up without ipv6 address19:03
ianwi'm not sure if this is a new issue, or user error at this point19:03
fungiseems like a new issue19:03
ianwwe can take it up after the meeting if there's nothing obvious19:03
* rcarrillocruz would like to give an infracloud update when all topics are covered19:03
fungircarrillocruz: i'll work that into the priority efforts section in a sec19:04
fungiianw: yeah, let's troubleshoot the launch script after the meeting19:04
fungibut i am eager to get to the bottom of it as i'm about to need to use it to launch some wiki servers19:04
fungi#topic Specs approval19:04
mordredI would also like to know what's up19:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)"19:04
funginone this week, but jeblair proposed a topic for later in the meeting to discuss one he hopes to bring up for a vote next week19:04
fungi#topic Priority Efforts: Infra-cloud (rcarrillocruz)19:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts: Infra-cloud (rcarrillocruz) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:05
fungircarrillocruz: now would be the perfect time for that update!19:05
rcarrillocruzwe haz minimal infracloud19:05
rcarrillocruzricky@ricky-Surface-Pro-3:~$ export OS_CLOUD=infracloud19:05
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rcarrillocruzricky@ricky-Surface-Pro-3:~$ openstack endpoint list19:05
rcarrillocruz| ID                               | Region    | Service Name  | Service Type |19:05
rcarrillocruz| 58f9b46f6a614f0b9e01a3a86953a5a0 | RegionOne | nova          | compute      |19:05
rcarrillocruz| 9f83cc19ad9c46c9b7426942c3b9e8f9 | RegionOne | Image Service | image        |19:05
rcarrillocruz| 5adbea48dfbc458b90081bdfa9b7317a | RegionOne | keystone      | identity     |19:05
rcarrillocruz| b8f288f2eb8a4fb7897e732f880ccfbf | RegionOne | neutron       | network      |19:05
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AJaegergreat, rcarrillocruz !19:05
rcarrillocruzcontroller.vanilla.ic.openstack.org if you want to take a peak19:05
fungifor posterity!19:05
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jeblairyay, but we want maximal infracloud!19:05
rcarrillocruzi'll start tomorrow deploying compute hosts19:05
pabelangerto the extreme!19:05
mordredI both want and dont' want to know why glance's Service Name is "Image Service"19:06
fungimaximify next19:06
rcarrillocruzjeblair: indeed!19:06
clarkbrcarrillocruz: after the first compue is up maybe we can do the performance sorting out in parallel?19:06
rcarrillocruzclarkb: ++19:06
clarkbeg boot upload an nodepool image out of band and just manually time some test runs19:06
rcarrillocruzand yeah, i talked last week about doing a demo about deploying with bifrost and all19:07
rcarrillocruzas soon as i get the ball rolling on computes19:07
rcarrillocruzi'll work up on the tooling suggested by jeblair and bkero and will send an email to the mailing list for suitable times19:07
jeblairi'll make the popcorn19:08
fungii could use some popcorn right about now. haven't had time to grab lunch yet19:08
fungianything else on this topic?19:08
rcarrillocruznot really19:08
fungithanks rcarrillocruz!19:08
rcarrillocruzwell, yolanda has used infracloud for opnfv19:08
* mordred salutes our new infra cloud overlords19:08
rcarrillocruzso that's also worth noting :-)19:09
notmorganooh nice rcarrillocruz !19:09
fungiindeed. way to go, yolanda! downstream use cases already19:09
fungi#topic Design summit session planning (fungi)19:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Design summit session planning (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:09
fungi#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/infra-ocata-summit-planning Infra Ocata summit planning pad19:09
fungii've added an excerpt from ttx's e-mail to the ptls late last week, and a section at the bottom where we can start pitching session ideas19:09
fungii'll follow up with a message to the infra ml after today's meeting but wanted to get an idea of how many slots we think we might use this time19:09
jeblairdidn't we just do this?19:09
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fungi(taking into account how effectively we did/didn't use our allocation last time)19:09
fungiyeah, seems like just last week19:09
fungithe main takeaway for slot allocations is that there are fewer available this time (shorter schedule plus new teams)19:10
fungibut the up-side is that the coming development cycle is shorter too19:10
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fungiin an effort to sync the conference/forum schedule up to mid-cycle timing so we can have the project team gatherings at the start of cycles19:11
mordredI actually don't have a ton of topics that I feel need in room discussion ... it seems like we're still working through the last set of topics19:11
mordredI mean,  Ilike all of you people and everything19:11
fungii _always_ feel like that for some reason19:11
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mordredjust saying - very few burning issues19:11
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clarkbya still working on xenial and ansible reporting reliability and zuulv3 etc19:12
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fungiso anyway, last time we had 3 fishbowls and 4 workrooms (plus the team gathering time)19:12
jeblairmordred: i agree -- i think we will have an opportunity to do what we need with zuulv3 planning at the infra meetup, and i think we'll mostly just be heads down around summit time19:12
mordredwe coudl always just schedule an infra track in a bar19:12
clarkbmaybe we can try to do more workroom sprint type stuff and actually hack on things19:12
mordredthat is more heads down hacking19:12
fungiclarkb: that's where i was heading too19:12
mordredand we can ignore everyone else19:12
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rcarrillocruz++ to more hacking19:12
mordredclarkb: ++19:12
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fungii feel like our fishbowl sessions turn into hacking sessions, and our workroom sessions turn into hacking and some planning19:13
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fungiso turning the question around, is there a topic anyone's been thinking of that _needs_ a fishbowl with room for a larger group involvement?19:13
zaroanybody feel like planning another gerrit upgrade?19:13
ZaraI'm not sure about task-tracking, since that also is cross-project19:14
fungizaro: i would love to. i wanted to have one before we got to this point in the cycle. but the cycle sort of got away from us19:14
anteayazaro: do we need a design summit session to do that?19:14
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Zaraso if we're doing a status report or similar, that might be interesting to a wider audience19:14
anteayazaro: for me, if you say there is something to upgrade to and you have tested it, all I need to participate in is selecting the date19:14
zaromight be premature to actually plan the upgrade atm though since i think we need to do a lot of work to even get to that point.19:15
anteayazaro: and confirming the workflow19:15
fungiand anteaya makes a great point. i think we can just decide to upgrade soon after release week, but probably don't need an in-person discussion for gerrit upgrading19:15
anteayazaro: yeah, so maybe tell us when you are ready and if you need us to do anything to help you get ready19:15
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anteayathen we can select a date19:15
fungiZara: agreed, the task tracking fishbowl has become a summit tradition. i would hate to let people down by not having one this time ;)19:16
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mordredfungi: we could have an old school xml vs. json argument in its place19:16
Zaravim vs emacs?19:16
mordredooh. a systemd bitch session!19:16
fungizara types faster than i do19:16
fungiwe could take other sessions as an opportunity to complain about systemd if we want19:17
rcarrillocruzlol, bring back upstart!19:17
fungiokay, so how about i ask for two (maybe one?) fishbowl and 4-6 workrooms?19:17
mordredfungi: I thnk I'm going to set a goal to complain about systemd in every session I attend. let's see how many times I can do it before I get kicked out19:17
mordredfungi: ++19:17
funginote that the contributor gathering time in barcelona will also be shorter (just a half day)19:18
anteayaare we just going to assume we will be folded into a meetup space with qa and release?19:18
anteayathat seems to work19:18
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fungianteaya: it's possible. ttx didn't say anything (yet) about shared space for that, just the compressed timescale19:18
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fungii do anticipate needing to do some release management automation work in person, which might fall into a workroom slot for either the release managers or infra (last time we ended up doing a lot of it in a breakout on the last day, but that was kinda disorganized)19:19
clarkbmaybe an informal drop in and out monday hacking spot if people are around early19:20
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clarkber for infra things19:20
anteayayeah, if we can find a monday space that would be awesome19:20
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fungialso krotscheck had an interest in doing a session for javascript tooling, though that might also end up in a different "track" depending on what's more appropriate and who has available allocation19:21
anteayaapparently it is a holiday hence we can't summit monday19:21
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anteayarcarrillocruz: what might be open on the holiday monday?19:21
krotscheckThough, my travel has not yet been approved.19:21
fungii think the board meeting is on monday?19:21
anteayarcarrillocruz: restaurant? park bench? church?19:21
anteayaoh is it?19:21
fungii'd have to double-check19:21
rcarrillocruzwell, given that barcelona is a very touristic and cosmopolitan city i don't really expect lots of restaurants closed19:21
anteayarcarrillocruz: thank you19:22
fungibut we could always get together and heckle the board members19:22
fungiespecially mordred19:22
anteayarcarrillocruz: is this a relgious holiday?19:22
mordredfungi: I mean, I'll likely be hacking19:22
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fungihacking the board, as always19:22
anteayarcarrillocruz: bank holiday?19:22
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rcarrillocruzi'd need to check, i suspect it may be a local/regional holiday19:22
anteayarcarrillocruz: thanks, I'm just curious19:23
clarkbin austin the private session seemed long19:23
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anteayaclarkb: for the board?19:23
clarkbgiving plenty of hacking time for those doing both19:23
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clarkbanteaya: ya19:23
fungiclarkb: yes, usually the closed session abuts lunch, so prime opportunity to gather and eat and hack, in some order19:23
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fungiunless you're on the board, i guess19:24
* rcarrillocruz suggests http://www.parkguell.cat/es/ as hacking place for the bank holiday :D19:25
fungiokay, i didn't want to burn too much time on this. i'll get a preliminary allocation request going (we've got until the 31st to revise it) and move this discussion to the ml... cool?19:25
anteayarcarrillocruz: thank you19:25
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anteayarcarrillocruz: yes!19:25
fungii'll keep this topic on the agenda for next week's meeting too, so we can make any last-minute decisions on revising the allocation request if needed19:26
rcarrillocruzit's a park full of Gaudi awesome things19:26
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fungi#topic Docs in AFS spec (jeblair)19:26
*** openstack changes topic to "Docs in AFS spec (jeblair) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:26
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/276482 Update doc publishing spec for AFS19:26
dmsimardSorry to disrupt the meeting but there's a couple of us bumping into unavailability issues for review.o.o ?19:26
anteayarcarrillocruz: that is where I will be19:26
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AJaegerwith Rackspace having sold Cloud Sites - which we currently use for docs.openstack.org and developer.openstack.org (see http://venturebeat.com/2016/08/08/rackspace-sells-cloud-sites-hosting-business-to-liquid-web/ ), this spec might have some more urgency to it19:27
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jeblairAJaeger: indeed!  that was my motivation for dusting it off19:28
dmsimardreview.o.o is back now, my apologies.19:28
AJaegerthanks, jeblair19:28
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jeblairi wanted to bring it up at this meeting to call attention to it so that we can vote on it at next week's meeting19:28
fungii'm also cool with a proposal to move it into the priority efforts list, given the circumstances19:28
anteayadmsimard: thank you for your discretion19:28
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AJaegerfungi, yes, please19:29
fungirackspace has also contacted us with a request to "trim or relocate" the docs.o.o content19:29
jeblairfungi: ok, i can propose that in a followup and we can vote at the same time19:29
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fungijeblair: sounds good19:29
jeblairnote -- i did revise the spec and it now has a zuul v2.5 specific option19:29
fungi#link http://paste.openstack.org/show/560837/ Cloud Sites ticket about docs.o.o size19:29
fungifor the record19:29
jeblairfungi: assumed urgency is real then... :)19:30
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jeblairmost of you will know i'm generally not in favor of adding things to zuul v2.5 -- but i believe that what i've proposed is significantly better than the alternatives, and it includes a straightforward transition to v3.  so i do not think it increases our tech debt.19:30
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anteayafungi: thank you19:31
fungii haven't looked back over the spec revision yet, but am interested a lot in the execution/logistics being covered. we'll want to see how long it takes to retrieve the current content, probably, and try stuffing it into afs to see if it breaks any of the reference count limits19:31
jeblairi also enumerated the work items in some detail... mordred has volunteered to help.  i think there will be opportunities for others to help too.  especially with the part where we have to put placeholder files at the start of our "virtual roots" in order to get the rsync stuff right19:32
AJaegerlooking at the ticket: We have *very* old content on docs.openstack.org. Do we want to move all of that over? Like docs for *all* nova releases?19:32
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anteayaAJaeger: for me that is a question for the doc team19:33
jeblairfungi: yah, i put the initial sync in as early as possible in the work items19:33
fungigiven that not all the content there is built from existing jobs and will (presumably) need to be preserved, we likely will need a significant quiescence period for docs jobs so we can refresh (especially because it's currently only accessable via ftp)19:33
AJaegerOr start a new site from scratch?19:33
* AJaeger is fine with starting from scratch19:33
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fungiAJaeger: how do we get, e.g., the diablo install guide on there in that case?19:33
AJaegeranteaya: this is for more than docs team IMHO - I think we need to have a policy, e.g. we publish only "maintained" documents and not 10 year old documents19:33
fungifair enough. i think that's a decision the docs team will need to come to though19:34
AJaegerfungi, that specific one might have been removed - the docs team removed old content and redirected19:34
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anteayaAJaeger: perhaps it starts with doc team and moves to maling list?19:34
docaedoI've enjoyed the ability to find docs from older (even EOL'd things), would be a bummer for that stuff to just go away19:34
fungii'm happy for us to provide input on the challenges caused by hosting unmaintained documentation which we don't have jobs to produce any longer19:34
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AJaegerShall I start a discussion with the docs team?19:35
anteayaAJaeger: that is what I would encourage19:35
fungiAJaeger: yes, in parallel with this spec, it would be good to know the actual constraints from the docs side around retention and old content19:35
AJaegerfungi, give me an action, please19:35
jeblairwell, i think syncing is possible.  not syncing would be easier.  i think we can have it either way.19:35
fungisince that may alter the migration plan in significant ways19:35
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jeblairAJaeger: let's try to decide on that and update the spec accordingly before next meeting so we can vote on the final plan then19:36
fungi#action AJaeger start a docs ml thread to refresh constraints around retention of old/unmaintained documents19:36
fungifallback is that we plan to keep it all, of course19:37
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fungibut if we discover partway into the process that keeping it all presents a significant problem, then having an out would also be great19:37
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fungianybody else have anything they want to ask/suggest on the docs publication draft plan before we move subsequent discussion to gerrit?19:38
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krotscheckI don't suppose we have anything like open analytics that lets us see whether or not anyone's still using that content?19:38
clarkbthe docs team uses google analytics19:38
AJaegerkrotscheck, loquacities has google analytics and can tell us some - I'll ask her19:38
fungikrotscheck: i think the docs team has urchin or something configured, so they may have reports19:38
jeblairif there are other volunteers to help with the work items (or if you would like clarification on them) please leave a comment in gerrit19:38
* krotscheck blinks.19:39
* krotscheck remembers getting his hand slapped 2 years ago when he asked to use Google Analytics.19:39
jeblairthis effort will be highly parallelizable, so it does not need to block on me or a small group.  :)19:39
fungikrotscheck: yeah, non-open analytics19:39
fungikrotscheck: docs.openstack.org is the docs team's dominion, so we haven't imposed open ideals on them (yet anyway!)19:40
clarkbkrotscheck: and last time we tried to change the hosting we were told no...19:40
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fungikrotscheck: though i'm sure they would be thrilled to switch to a different and more open analytics solution if it gets them what they need19:40
AJaegerIf you set up piwik or another open analytics tool, I'm happy to advocate for it.19:41
* krotscheck is short-timing, so someone else will have to take that on.19:41
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fungii'd be happy to see that proposed as a project (by anyone who wants to work on getting it going)19:41
jeblairfungi: [eot from me]19:41
fungii suspect having more direct control over the content and publishing (which this spec gives us) will go a long way toward making that easier too19:42
fungithanks jeblair!19:42
AJaegerthanks, jeblair !19:42
fungi#topic Discuss next rename window (saggi)19:42
*** openstack changes topic to "Discuss next rename window (saggi) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:42
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fungilooks like the project formerly named higgins and the project formerly named smaug both want a repo rename19:43
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saggiWondering about timelines19:43
saggiand things to watch out for19:43
fungi#link https://releases.openstack.org/newton/schedule.html Newton release schedule19:43
fungiwe're coming up on week r5 when the third milestone releases happen19:44
anteayato me it looks like October19:44
anteayamaybe first week of Oct19:44
anteayathe only week in sept that looks halfway possible is the infra sprint week19:44
fungiwell, we could try to squeeze it in at the end of r5? (releases usually happen on thursdays)19:44
pleia2the reindex is what takes the longest, I don't know that it would be very disruptive to our sprint19:44
fungipleia2: though on a positive note, we have online resizing now!19:45
pleia2fungi: yeah :)19:45
fungibut this would be the first maintenance to try and make use of it19:45
jeblairfungi: online resizing?19:45
fungiso we still need to plan the outage for an offline reindex in case something unexpected happens19:45
fungier, online reindexing19:45
* fungi has filesystems on the brainz)19:46
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jeblairwhew ok19:46
fungionline resize all open changes by 50 additional lines of code19:46
fungijust because19:46
anteayaha ha ha19:46
mordredfungi: yay stackalytics numbers!!!19:46
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pleia2I knew what you meant ;)19:46
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fungii often fail at words19:47
anteayathey are overrated19:47
fungiokay, so what was the argument against friday september 2?19:47
clarkbis labor day around then?19:47
pleia2wfm, and it's just before a US holiday so people might be leaving early19:47
anteayafor me was just who is willing to do the offline reindex if online fails19:47
pleia2labor day is the following Monday19:48
clarkbpeople might be camping which can be goof or bad19:48
anteayaand timing19:48
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pleia2clarkb: goof is right19:48
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anteayafungi: but if you want sept, 2, I can be around to help19:48
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zaroi'm a maybe for the 2nd.19:48
clarkb2nd wfm too19:49
clarkbno camping plans19:49
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fungii can do the 2nd as well19:49
fungishall we say 20:00-24:00 utc?19:49
anteayaI'm fine with that19:50
fungior earlier?19:50
mordredI have no plans19:50
anteayawell I am wondering if ff will be done on the thursday19:50
clarkbI can do as early as 1500utc19:50
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anteayaor if we will have fallover19:50
fungias you say, with a big chunk of the usa likely turning that into a 4-day weekend, out volume might slack off pretty early in the day19:50
saggiIs there something we need to do when right before\after ?19:50
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anteayasaggi: be attentive for reviews on your rename patch19:51
pleia2saggi: just make sure your rename patches are in good shape19:51
fungisaggi: yes, as soon as you can you need to propose a change to rename your project in the openstack-infra/project-config repository19:51
saggiWe are already renaming19:51
anteayafungi: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/353304/19:51
saggiWe will be all changed up internally19:51
fungianteaya: oh, thanks. i missed it on the agenda19:51
anteayait is the depends on in the governance change that is linked to the wiki19:51
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saggiwe will just have a few patches regarding git paths19:52
anteayasaggi: what do you mean?19:52
AJaegeranteaya: no, governance change depends on this one.19:52
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fungiso how about 18:00-22:00 utc friday september 2?19:52
pleia2saggi: yeah, we usually submit a .gitreview change as part of our process19:52
zaroi vote earlier the better.19:52
pleia2fungi: +119:52
saggianteaya: We are already changing the code and import paths19:52
anteayaAJaeger: the link on the meeting agenda is to a governance patch19:52
anteayasaggi: ah okay19:52
AJaegeranteaya: ah, ok - let's change that.19:53
anteayaAJaeger: feel free19:53
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AJaegersaggi: can you do that, please?19:53
anteayaI was just saying what is there19:53
fungidhellmann: any feel for if having a gerrit maintenance start at 18:00 utc on friday the 2nd (the day after milestone 3) is going to cause issues for the release team?19:53
AJaegersaggi: 353304 should be in the wiki19:53
fungialso, who wants to send the maintenance announcement?19:53
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saggiAJaeger: Where in the wiki ?19:54
pleia2fungi: I can take care of it19:54
fungi#action pleia2 send maintenance announcement for upcoming gerrit project renames19:54
fungithanks pleia2!19:54
anteayathanks pleia219:55
AJaegersaggi:  https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting - the Upcoming rename section19:55
fungi#agreed Tentatively scheduled Friday, September 2 from 18:00-22:00 UTC for Gerrit rename maintenance, pending feedback from Release Managers19:55
fungianything else we need to cover on renames?19:55
anteayasaggi: thanks for attending and motivating the discussion19:55
fungi#topic Open discussion19:56
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fungiwe've got a bunch more puppet changes up for wiki updates, in case anyone is interested in reviewing those19:56
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:wiki-upgrade+is:open Open wiki-upgrade changes19:56
saggianteaya: np19:56
fungialso the release managers and i would be thrilled to get the launchpadlib stuff for the signing node approved rsn19:56
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:artifact-signing+is:open Open artifact-signing changes19:56
pleia2I started having a look, will revisit19:56
fungipleia2: yep, thanks for going through those19:56
fungiyolanda, Krenair and jpmaxman have been reviewing too19:57
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anteayaI move we close the meeting so fungi can eat19:57
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fungiheh, i plan to eat while i spectate/lurk the tc meeting ;)19:57
zaroi'm soliciting feedback for Gerrit verify-status plugin.  would appreciate some eyes on it,
anteayafungi: none today19:57
fungiright, openstack east has eaten most of our tc19:58
anteayafungi: they are in nyc for operators and openstack east19:58
fungiwell then, i'll just work and try not to get too much grease on the keyboard19:58
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pleia2thanks for chairing, fungi19:59
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fungiwe're out of time--thanks everyone!19:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:00
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openstackMeeting ended Tue Aug 23 20:00:01 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-08-23-19.01.html20:00
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openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-08-23-19.01.txt20:00
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openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-08-23-19.01.log.html20:00
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dhellmannfungi : a maintenance window the day after milestone 3 feels a bit tight. I guess we're running out of good times at this point in the cycle, though.20:01
dhellmannfungi : I'll move to -infra20:01
fungithanks dhellmann20:01
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oneswig#startmeeting scientific-wg21:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Aug 23 21:00:44 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is oneswig. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)"21:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'scientific_wg'21:00
oneswighello!  How are y'all?21:01
priteauGood evening oneswig21:01
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oneswigpriteau: trandles: julian1: hello!21:01
julian1All good.21:01
julian1How about yourselves?21:01
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oneswignot 3 bad :-)21:01
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oneswigblairo sends his apologies.21:02
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oneswigI think he's back from vacation next week21:02
oneswigLets get rolling21:02
oneswig#link Agenda for today https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Scientific_working_group#IRC_Meeting_August_23rd_201621:02
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oneswig#topic Planning for WG events in Barcelona21:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Planning for WG events in Barcelona (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)"21:03
oneswigIs everyone planning to go?21:03
priteauI am planning to go21:03
julian1Sadly not.21:04
trandlesstill waiting on travel approval :(21:04
julian1My institution only pays for in-country conferences.21:04
oneswigjulian1: apologies for that.  Hopefully it'll be good from afar...21:04
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oneswigBTW there are travel grants, for governments, non-profits and charities IIRC?21:04
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julian1Thanks oneswig. Yup, I will be living vicariously through irc.21:05
trandlesI thought the grants were only for students but I might be wrong about that.21:05
oneswigtrandles: you are probably correct, I never qualified so don't know the details21:05
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oneswig(as in, I never qualified for the grant, not qualified as a student...)21:05
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oneswiganyway, back in Austin there was a session which was quite busy and hard to make constructive21:06
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oneswigThere were ~100 people there, for 40 minutes!21:06
priteauit's not just students as far as I know21:06
oneswigthanks priteau21:06
priteaubut the deadline was August 821:07
trandlesIn theory that wg session was a nice idea.  In practice there were too many people.21:07
trandlesor not enough structure...21:07
oneswigFor the WG sessions I was thinking we should do some short BoFs on the 4 activity areas, running consecutively21:08
oneswigIf we have time pressure, perhaps pick 221:08
oneswigIn some way this might bring together all the discussions and activities of WG members over the cycle21:08
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oneswigThoughts on that?21:09
priteauoneswig: I wasn't at the Austin summit, but I think it's a good idea to have focused discussions21:09
oneswigThanks priteau, good point, last time there wasn't really time to sharpen focus on anything21:10
trandles+1 the idea.  Consecutively would be nice but if that's not possible maybe parallel with an executive summary session to bring the 4 back together?21:10
oneswigtrandles: Right, Id prefer consecutive sessions over concurrently-running sessions, I think some people might want to be in more than one21:11
oneswigWhat's the best way to organise a BoF?21:11
martialI agree, last time was a little hard to 1) know where to go and 2) so many people and the room acoustics was not that great21:11
oneswigThanks martial, it was a bit like that21:12
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trandlesoneswig: there's actually an RFC on BOFs21:12
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oneswigQuite a big RFC it turns out...21:13
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oneswigCan you summarise what you've seen to work well?  I was wondering whether we should do lightning talks, panel, open discussion, all 3?21:14
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oneswigI just saw a part about posting a CFP on the mailing list - that would make good sense21:14
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trandlesUnfortunately I haven't had great experiences at BoFs.  They need some good organization and focus to be productive.21:15
martial_do you think we would be able to get 4 rooms ? there was quite a few people per topic and some people wanted to be in more than one discussion21:15
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martial_meeting in the corridor on Friday was fun (the lack of chairs less so :) )21:16
oneswigI think they are more constrained for rooms in Barcelona, that's all I know right now21:16
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trandlesDo you want the BoF to be a generic "sharing of stories" or something more targeted?21:17
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oneswigIf we were able to get room for two sessions, which two?  Parallel filesystems, bare metal, accounting/scheduling or user stories?21:17
oneswigtrandles: I have something more like sharing of stories in mind, what about you?21:17
martial_I think the first two were the ones with the most participants last times ?21:18
oneswigmartial_: I'd go along with that, there's more of a defined problem with those two for people to get around as well.21:18
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priteauI am interested in bare metal of course, but wouldn't it duplicate with meetings from both Ironic developers and OpenStack operators?21:18
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trandlesoneswig: if the BoF is sharing of stories then it could/should be captured and used to fulfill the user stories focus area for the WG.21:19
oneswigpriteau: ideally we'd get some of the Ironic people to join in.  And it would be dumb if we scheduled so there was a conflict.  Something to bear i mind21:19
oneswigtrandles: good point, yes21:20
anteayathere will be space and time conflicts, it is unavoidable21:20
oneswigHi anteaya21:20
anteayamostly select your priorities in decending order21:20
oneswigthanks for joining21:20
anteayahey oneswig21:20
anteayaand then the organizers can do their best21:20
anteayanoone will get everything they want21:20
anteayahopefully everyone will get something in their top 321:20
oneswiganteaya: I'll do that and when the request goes out I'll try to flag up some of the conflicts to avoid with the main conference trac21:21
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anteayayeah, I would talk to thingee and ttx early21:21
anteayaso they are aware of your priorities21:21
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anteayaand they will try to do their best for you21:21
oneswigOK thanks I'd not thought of approaching them21:21
anteayabut no promises21:22
anteayaif they aren't the folks to help you they will find the right person for you21:22
anteayabut they are a good starting point21:22
oneswigI think with some BOF sessions, the actual committee proceedings will be pretty short.  I like the idea of some separation between them21:23
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martial_last time, the room was pretty full too21:23
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anteayamartial_: rooms will be full this time too21:23
oneswigmartial_: it was massive :-)21:23
anteayahopefully boston will be more roomy21:23
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oneswigThere's also discussion on an evening social.21:24
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anteayagood idea21:24
oneswigLast time there was an informal plan.21:25
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oneswigPerhaps we should plan something21:25
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martial_I guess the mailing list is a good way to plan this :)21:25
oneswigIt's also possible we might get vendors to contribute some beer21:25
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oneswigDoes anybody object to me enquiring on that?21:26
priteauoneswig: it would be good to synchronize with the Ops Meetup as well to avoid conflicts, but they don't have any info online yet: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Operations/Meetups21:27
oneswiganteaya: do you know more?21:27
priteauthe planning etherpad is empty21:27
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oneswigThey have a meetup in NYC this Thursday - anyone going?21:27
anteayaoneswig: do I know more about getting sponsors for an evening event?21:28
oneswiganteaya: sorry, no, do you know if the ops have an evening social planned?21:28
anteayaor do I know more about objections to you getting sponsors?21:28
anteayaah, I have no idea21:28
anteayafifield is your best person there21:28
anteayahe would know21:28
oneswiganteaya: OK thanks, I'll check21:29
anteayaor co-ordinate if that is the best path21:29
oneswigBetter note some of these, hold on21:29
anteayathis meeting is logged21:29
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oneswig... any objections for the record?21:29
anteaya#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-meeting/%23openstack-meeting.2016-08-23.log.html21:29
oneswigThat'll recurse off to infinity!21:30
oneswigHopefully infra's made of stronger stuff21:30
anteayawe are fairly hearty21:30
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oneswigOK was there anything more to mention re: Barcelona?21:31
trandlesany ETA on talk acceptance21:31
trandlesthat's the kind of thing that often breaks loose travel approvals21:32
anteayatrandles: you can contact the foundation directly21:32
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oneswigtrandles: The deadline for selection was Monday, I think the Foundation were going to let people know imminently21:32
anteayain the past the selection committee took most of august to go through submissions21:32
trandlescool, thanks21:32
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martial_I was wondering ... seems very researchy ... how about posters sessions for the scientific working group for people to talk about their work ?21:33
anteayamartial_: the problem is the space to put them21:33
martial_would be a great social opportunity21:33
oneswigmartial_: as a format for the BOF or generally?21:33
anteayaif you want to put things virually and share the links in an etherpad that would work21:33
martial_oneswig: as an add on in a way21:33
martial_anteaya: that might be good, not "talk" talk but would help with the user story component and then we can do the filesystem/baremetal21:34
oneswigI think if we can get enough contributors it might work.  Posters might get less uptake than a lightning talk though?21:34
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anteayathe issue with the summit is anything one group does all the vendors want to do too21:34
anteayaand wall space doesn't scale21:35
anteayawhere as urls do21:35
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martial_I just feel like most of the swg people have great ideas and tests that they are ready to discuss if given the chance21:35
martial_(last time was a great example of that)21:35
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anteayait almost might be worthwhile for the swg to have its own meetup21:36
anteayathen you can do posters since you have the venue21:36
martial_and as such giving them an opportunity to do so in a "social" mode might help21:36
oneswigOK how about take it to the user-committee21:36
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martial_(just a crazy thought)21:36
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anteayamartial_: it is a good thought21:36
oneswiganteaya: I think we are - if the BOFs count as that21:36
anteayamartial_: just finding the right venue is the trick21:36
martial_oneswig: how does that work ? happy to try to help if I can21:37
anteayaoneswig: well except you are alloted space by someone else21:37
anteayawhere as if you had your own meetup like the ops meetup in manchester you have the space21:37
anteayabut anyway, I'm likely getting ahead of the group21:37
anteayasorry about that21:37
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oneswiganteaya: that's a possibility but perhaps you're right its ahead of where we are today.  Cost justifications for travel might be tricky for example, would need to put on a compelling event21:38
anteayaso again, finding the right balance21:39
oneswigLet's move forward, thanks for all the ideas21:39
oneswig#topic UX Interviews on quota management21:39
*** openstack changes topic to "UX Interviews on quota management (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)"21:39
oneswigOK, just wanted to make people aware given this has come up a few times in WG meetings21:39
oneswigAdmittedly mostly in the other timezone21:40
oneswigThere's an effort by some people to gather views on improving quota management.21:40
oneswigHold on, I'll post a link21:40
oneswig#link quota management mail http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/user-committee/2016-August/001186.html21:40
oneswigPrevious WG discussions have focused on the difficulties of managing both personal quotas and group quotas in a hierarchical manner21:41
oneswigI wanted to make sure that if there were people in the WG who have pain points here, this is the opportunity to make them clear!21:41
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oneswigI think that's all I had on this - they are looking for input up to the end of the month IIRC21:42
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martial_I saw the deadline as yesterday, nothing from me21:43
oneswigAh, isn't it end of this week?21:44
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uxdanielleHi there! Yes, we have someone scheduled in the first week of September, so any time before 9/7 works21:44
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oneswigThanks uxdanielle!  Can you shed any light on how the interviews work?  What kind of information are you looking for?21:45
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uxdanielleInterviews are 45 minutes long - we are simply trying to learn about how people manage quotas, so we can understand what the pain points are21:46
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uxdanielleThe findings will be used for user stories, and feedback will be provided to teams working to improve quotas21:47
oneswigAnd user stories will find their way to the PTLs of the right projects, I guess?21:47
uxdanielleEarlier this week we've asked people to describe their cloud and how they set up and modify quotas21:47
anteayaoneswig: that is the theory, however talk to a few ptls and ask them how many user stories they have seen or accessed21:48
uxdanielleYes, I've met with some folks that have weighed in on the questions of the interviews, so they will hopefully get some useful information from this :)21:49
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anteayaI do hope folks in the swg are attending project weekly meetings of the projects they are interested in21:49
oneswigI have been to some, probably not enough...21:49
anteayaeavesdrop.openstack.org is the url for the meeting information21:49
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anteayasome is a good start21:49
trandlesI try to attend ironic meetings but likewise, probably not often enough.21:49
anteayathe meetings will show you what information the ptls pay attention to21:50
anteayatrandles: thank you for attending21:50
oneswigDid see this though - soliciting input for Ocata cycle for Ironic: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ironic-ocata-summit21:50
anteayaalso logs of meetins are available again at eavesdrop.openstack.org21:50
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uxdaniellehttp://doodle.com/poll/7tid473za2hpi6e7  << This is the link you can use to sign up for an interview slot if you're interested in participating21:50
anteayaif you see a project asking for feedback, give feedback21:51
trandlesoneswig I hadn't seen that, thank you21:51
oneswiguxdanielle: Thanks21:51
anteayathat is your best route to being heard21:51
anteayanot trying to undermine ux research, we need better ux21:51
oneswigTime is getting the better of us, anything more to say on this subject?21:51
trandlesanteaya I definitely read logs when I can't attend21:51
anteayabut don't wait on user stories to convey your needs, go to meetings yourself21:51
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anteayatrandles: awesome, thank you21:51
uxdaniellePing me with any other questions; thanks for bringing this meeting to my attention!21:51
oneswiguxdanielle: you're very welcome21:51
oneswig#topic Planning for SC201621:52
*** openstack changes topic to "Planning for SC2016 (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)"21:52
martial_thanks anteaya & uxdanielle21:52
oneswigActually I don't have news here.  I know there is an OpenStack BoF application but I didn't hear if it has been accepted.21:52
trandlesoneswig: that acceptance is first week in Sept. IIRC21:53
oneswigtrandles: Ah, thanks, I will look out for that21:53
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oneswigIn the meantime, fingers crossed21:53
martial_would be nice, likely going to SC2016 too :)21:54
oneswigtrandles: did you contact Mike Lowe IIRC he was looking for OpenStack presentation subject matter for the IU booth?21:54
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trandlesoneswig: I did not21:54
oneswigAh OK I seem to remember that coming up21:54
oneswigmartial_: It's possible I may see you there...21:55
trandlesI'll look for details21:55
martial_oneswig: and in Barcelona if all goes well21:55
oneswigmartial_: of course - excellent21:55
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oneswigI am generating content for the OpenStack HPC white papers - 2.5 in draft now, awaiting selected reviews before they'll go to the group for further refinement21:57
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oneswig#topic Any other business21:57
*** openstack changes topic to "Any other business (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)"21:57
oneswigNews from the Scientific OpenStack world?21:58
trandlesWho do I see about creating 30 hour days so I can get more done?21:58
anteayai asked in #openstack-ironic about user stories, if anyone had heard of them, I got no reply21:58
anteayaheard of any that applied to ironic21:59
trandlesanteaya I'd be happy to chat about my use case for using ironic to provision HPC clusters21:59
oneswiganteaya: ah, sounds like there's a blockage in the process plumbing ...21:59
oneswigShall we arrange for a future meeting to invite some people from Ironic?22:00
anteayatrandles: I think spending time in #openstack-ironic is your best way to be heard22:00
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anteayaand attending the ironic weekly meeting22:01
oneswigAlas I think we are out of time but we have plenty to follow up on here22:01
anteayaor attend the ironic weekly meeting22:01
trandlesanteaya sounds good22:01
anteayatrandles: thank you22:01
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oneswigThanks all, time to wind up22:01
martial_thanks all22:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"22:02
openstackMeeting ended Tue Aug 23 22:02:11 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)22:02
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-08-23-21.00.html22:02
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-08-23-21.00.txt22:02
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-08-23-21.00.log.html22:02
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