Monday, 2016-09-05

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rascabuongiorno ragazzi, bentornato BananaMagician06:48
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rasca(sorry, wrong chat)06:48
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aspiershi09:00
samPhi09:00
aspiershi samP :)09:00
samPhi o/09:01
aspiersbeekhof: are you around?09:01
aspiersI guess not09:02
aspiers#startmeeting ha09:02
openstackMeeting started Mon Sep  5 09:02:46 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is aspiers. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.09:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.09:02
beekhofmorning all09:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ha)"09:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ha'09:02
aspiersoh hi beekhof :)09:03
aspierscool09:03
* beekhof was on vacation last week09:03
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aspiershope you had a good time and your inbox is not too bloated ;-)09:03
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aspiersmine tends to get ~1000/week (excluding mailing lists)09:03
aspierswell, including the mailing lists I try to stay on top of09:04
aspiersso not openstack-dev ;-)09:04
beekhofhahaha09:04
samPsame here...lol09:04
aspiers#topic HA guide09:04
*** openstack changes topic to "HA guide (Meeting topic: ha)"09:04
beekhofyes, i went somewhere warm to escape winter09:04
aspiersdoes Australia even get winter? ;-)09:04
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beekhofindeed09:05
aspiers#info ddeja submitted a review to HA guide adding instance HA info https://review.openstack.org/#/c/359955/09:05
aspierssamP: I just added you as a reviewer09:05
samPaspiers: thank you. Ill take a look09:06
aspiershowever ddeja is now supposed to be on vacation09:06
aspiersso I'll submit a new patchset taking my feedback into account09:06
aspiers#action aspiers to update the HA guide review09:07
aspiersbeekhof: you wanna mention anything else about the HA guide?09:07
beekhofcan i defer? i got pulled into a meeting real quick09:08
beekhof5 minutes or so09:08
aspierssure09:08
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aspierssamP: shall we wait a few minutes for him to get back? I guess there's not too much to discuss today09:10
aspiersother topics: specs and Barcelona09:10
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aspiersand anything else you want to discuss09:10
samPsure, sorry I dont have much topic to dicuss09:11
aspiersthat's fine09:12
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aspiersOK that's 5 mins or so ;-)09:14
aspiers#topic specs09:14
*** openstack changes topic to "specs (Meeting topic: ha)"09:14
aspiersso the VM monitoring spec is almost finished09:15
aspiersjust 1 or 2 FIXMEs I think09:15
aspierssamP: how much detail do you think the spec should give about the event data?09:15
aspierssamP: also I think it should mention the need to work with https so that the communication is secure09:16
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beekhofi'm pretty much back09:17
aspierscool09:17
aspiers#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/352217 is the VM monitoring spec09:18
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samPatleast, we need events about unexpected stop, crash and IO error09:18
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aspierssamP: yes09:18
aspierssamP: and what about event filtering?09:18
aspiersthat should be configurable in the monitoring service, right?09:18
samPaspiers: yes09:18
aspiersbetter to filter at source than destination09:19
samPin client side09:19
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samPaspiers: agree09:19
aspiersmaybe it's enough for now to make the spec request filtering just by event type?09:19
aspierslater we could improve if required09:19
aspiersbut the spec doesn't need to be the final perfect solution09:19
samPaspiers: evetnt type is enough, as u said we can add more details later09:20
aspiersok cool09:20
aspiersI think masakari-instancemonitor already implements 95% of what we need, which is good news :)09:21
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samPaspiers: yes. it also has client side event monitoring. though hard coded09:22
aspiersyep09:22
aspiersand we need https09:22
aspiershow should it get the server's certificate?09:23
aspiersa) just trust there is no middle-man attach the first time, and cache the cert09:23
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aspiersb) require the sysadmin to provide the cert09:23
aspierss/sysadmin/Chef or Puppet or Ansible or .../09:24
aspiersI think b) is better09:24
samPb) is feasible09:24
aspierssince b) still allows the possibility of a)09:24
aspiersok cool09:25
haukebrunofrom my ops view: also b) sounds better09:25
aspiersoh hi haukebruno :)09:25
samPaspiers: yes. when we add a new computer node, thing are automated and b) is not a big issue09:25
haukebrunomorning all \o/09:25
aspiersthat's good to hear09:25
beekhofok, so you wanted to talk ha guide?09:25
samPhaukebruno: morning..09:25
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beekhofits mine, all mine i tell you!09:26
aspiersbeekhof: we're currently talking about the VM monitoring spec09:26
aspiershah09:26
aspiersbeekhof: anything from you on that? we can switch back to HA guide if you have more to add09:26
beekhofi've not done much09:26
beekhofi'd like to get around a table at summit and come up with a plan09:26
aspiers+109:26
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samP+109:27
beekhofsomething we can then tell people what they can do to help09:27
aspiersyep09:27
beekhofthere was a couple of folks09:27
aspiers#topic HA guide (part 2)09:27
*** openstack changes topic to "HA guide (part 2) (Meeting topic: ha)"09:27
beekhofwe kind of hashed most of it out over email09:27
beekhofbut we should document it and circulate it a bit more09:28
aspiers#info beekhof has ideas for future of HA guide09:28
aspiers#info we should discuss in Barcelona09:28
beekhofand of course it ties into the other conversation about the new RH arch09:28
aspiersright09:28
beekhofwhich i expect to get grilled about in spain09:28
beekhofwe can call it a spanish inquisition!09:29
aspiersor an Australian BBQ ;-)09:29
beekhofno-one expects those09:29
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haukebrunolol. are you guys all heading to barcelona?09:29
beekhofhahah, or that09:29
beekhofyep09:29
aspiersmy travel's not confirmed yet09:29
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aspierssince I didn't get a talk approved this time09:29
beekhofdoh09:29
aspiersbeekhof: do you know if RH saw a big reduction in approved talks?09:30
aspiersit was a massive drop for SUSE09:30
beekhofneither of my 2 got accepted09:30
beekhofi dont know about others09:30
aspiersvery strange09:30
beekhofmaybe florian doesnt like you anymore?09:30
aspiershah09:30
aspiersit's not up to him09:30
beekhofif i can get some time, i might try and get started on the docs plans09:30
aspiers#topic Barcelona09:31
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beekhofhave you had time to absorb the RH plans?  anything you still want to ask or critique?09:31
aspiersI think I already mentioned that it was not possible to get any official HA track this time :-/09:31
beekhofyeah09:31
beekhofwhich kinda blows09:32
aspiersbut it sounds like when they split the event in two it will be a lot easier09:32
beekhofunclear09:32
aspiersThierry suggested that will be the case, IIRC09:32
beekhofi expect that is the intention09:32
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aspiers#info still no official HA track, hopefully the future event split will fix this though09:33
aspiers#topic RH's new generation HA architecture09:33
*** openstack changes topic to "RH's new generation HA architecture (Meeting topic: ha)"09:33
beekhofaka. why beekhof is wrong09:33
samPcat we get the fish bowl?09:33
aspiersbeekhof: we don't need a dedicated topic to discuss that ;-)09:33
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beekhofdoes anyone not know what RH is planning regarding the HA arch?09:34
beekhofwould be hard to keep up if not :)09:34
aspiersbeekhof: I think your blog posts are pretty clear09:34
aspiersbeekhof: although I guess there is more they probably don't cover09:34
beekhofmaybe not everyone read it09:34
aspiershttp://blog.clusterlabs.org/blog/2016/next-openstack-ha-arch09:34
beekhofin any case, if anyone has questions or concerns... now is your chance09:35
aspiershttp://blog.clusterlabs.org/blog/2016/composable-openstack-ha09:35
aspiersone question is: how are you going to implement the service-level monitoring?09:35
aspiersand I just had a crazy idea for you to shoot down in flames09:36
beekhofi expect there will be two layers09:36
beekhofsimple systemd based + more advanced nagios style external monitoring09:36
aspierssince I plan to maintain the OCF RAs which have a "monitor" action which should do service-level monitoring (and in the cases where it doesn't, I can fix it)09:36
beekhofor sensu or whatever the flavor of the month is09:36
aspiersyes, by "service-level" I meant the non-systemd layer09:37
beekhofok09:37
aspiersIOW, how will your $nagios_or_similar know how to monitor each service?09:37
beekhofyeah, that will all be external09:37
aspiersI assume it will need some kind of plugin per service09:37
aspiersso here's my crazy idea ...09:37
aspiersreuse "monitor" action of the OCF RAs :-)09:37
beekhofthere will be something that gets called, yes09:37
beekhofthats one possibility09:38
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beekhofof course we might all be in containers by then, so we'd be doing something like http://kubernetes.io/docs/user-guide/production-pods/#liveness-and-readiness-probes-aka-health-checks09:38
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aspiersif the OCF RA needs to do some extra non-RA stuff to work with your monitoring layer, I'd be more than happy to accommodate it09:38
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beekhofi dont think there is any great desire to write this stuff, so if it exists in some consumable form i bet it would get reused09:39
aspiersyeah I've already been looking at that and stackanetes09:39
aspiersa simple service readiness problem could be too naive in some cases09:40
beekhofi've not come across that one09:40
beekhofaspiers: agreed09:40
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aspiersso let's agree that in principle, we're aligned on the idea of sharing/reusing code which does service-level monitoring09:40
beekhofthats one of the problems the kubernetes proponents will need to find a solution for if they want it adopted09:41
beekhofyes09:41
beekhofthe only real wrinkle, is if your agents expect parameters09:41
aspiersif OCF RAs seems to be a suitable home for that code, as the maintainer I'm 100% happy to look after it09:41
beekhofthought...09:41
aspierswell that should be easy to deal with09:41
aspierssimply pass the right environment variables09:42
beekhofand i get that this is contrary to everything i've said for 14 years09:42
aspiersand if k8s doesn't support that, a wrapper script can set them easily09:42
beekhofwhat if the monitor logic lived in a separate file/script09:42
aspiersI'm OK with that too09:42
beekhofwell the point is that we wouldn;'t have any... anything would be in the sysconfig file09:42
beekhofsince systemd doesnt have parameters09:43
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beekhofsep file would make them easier to consume == less resistance09:43
aspierssure09:43
* beekhof has to run again... kids bedtime09:43
aspiersI'm totally fine with that09:43
beekhofi'll try and make it a bit more often09:43
aspiersseparate files could still potentially live the o-r-a repo09:43
beekhofit == this meeting09:43
beekhofyes09:44
aspiersbeekhof: cool, was great to have you here this time09:44
aspierssamP: sorry yes, we should try to book a decent room in advance09:44
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aspierssamP, haukebruno: you want to discuss anything else?09:45
haukebrunonot from my site :(09:45
aspiersok np09:45
haukebrunojust looking forward to the barcelona summit to see some of you folks09:45
aspiersyes I hope I can make it! :-/09:45
samPaspiers: not from my side09:46
aspiersok then, let's close for today09:46
aspiersthanks all and bye for now!09:46
samPthank you all...09:47
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haukebrunohave a nice day all09:47
aspiersyou too :)09:47
aspiers#endmeeting09:47
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"09:47
openstackMeeting ended Mon Sep  5 09:47:57 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)09:47
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ha/2016/ha.2016-09-05-09.02.html09:48
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ha/2016/ha.2016-09-05-09.02.txt09:48
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ha/2016/ha.2016-09-05-09.02.log.html09:48
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andreykurilin#startmeeting Rally14:05
openstackMeeting started Mon Sep  5 14:05:11 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is andreykurilin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:05
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:05
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Rally)"14:05
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'rally'14:05
andreykurilinhi all14:05
rvasilets__\ะพ14:05
astarovehi14:05
andreykurilinunfortunately, we do not have a lot of things to discuss and our agenda is empty :(14:06
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andreykurilinbut it doesn't mean that we will skip it)14:06
andreykurilinso let's start14:07
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andreykurilin#topic rally 0.6.014:07
*** openstack changes topic to "rally 0.6.0 (Meeting topic: Rally)"14:07
andreykurilinI'm planning to cut a release today14:07
andreykurilinat least submit release notes:)14:07
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rvasilets__))14:07
andreykurilinso it is required to not merge big patches14:07
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andreykurilinonly fixes of critical bugs14:08
rvasilets__okey14:08
andreykurilinnext release will be 0.7.014:08
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andreykurilinand we need to try decrease time between releases14:08
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andreykurilinlet's concentrate on improvements of keystone v3 support for next release14:09
andreykurilinit is very important14:10
andreykurilinas much as db refactoring :)14:10
andreykurilinso that is all about release14:11
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andreykurilinand I have no topics to discuss...14:11
rvasilets__me too)14:11
rvasilets__bad roman)14:11
andreykurilinastarove: maybe you have something, do you?)14:12
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astaroveno, I din't14:12
astaroveno, I didn't14:12
rvasilets__i'm working now on moving to osclients into sessions(its about moving to v3)14:12
andreykurilinastarove: ok...14:12
andreykurilinastarove: okay14:12
andreykurilin:D14:12
andreykurilinlet's finish meeting, if we do not have anything to discuss14:13
andreykurilin#endmeeting14:13
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"14:13
openstackMeeting ended Mon Sep  5 14:13:42 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)14:13
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2016/rally.2016-09-05-14.05.html14:13
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2016/rally.2016-09-05-14.05.txt14:13
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2016/rally.2016-09-05-14.05.log.html14:13
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anteaya#startmeeting third-party15:06
openstackMeeting started Mon Sep  5 15:06:45 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:06
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:06
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)"15:06
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'third_party'15:06
anteayasorry lennyb15:06
anteayaand thanks for the ping15:07
anteayawas reviewing a patch15:07
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eantyshevo/15:07
lennybhi15:07
anteayahello15:07
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anteayahow are you today?15:07
anteayasorry I'm late starting15:07
anteayado we have anything to talk about today?15:07
lennybfine, thanks.how are you? Yes.15:08
lennybIn case of broken CI, what is the best/easiest way to run commits back or debug the issue? I mean I dont know what commit broke me, it can be neutron/cinder/devstack15:08
lennybfor example #link http://13.69.151.247/Cinder-ISER-ISCSI/2574_cloudx-26//testr_results.html.gz15:08
anteayagood questions15:08
anteayalennyb: was this the first test that failed15:08
anteayaoften it can be a timing issue15:09
lennybno15:09
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anteayafind the first failure15:09
eantyshevI also wanted to make an announcement15:09
anteayaand then check the timestamps off all the patches that merged before that failure15:09
lennybit started to fail a while ago, but I cant tell exactly when15:09
anteayabut since the last success15:09
anteayaeantyshev: ack, you are next, thank you15:09
anteayalennyb: oh okay15:09
anteayawell you asked about the best way and in my opinion, the best way is time stamp comparison15:10
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lennybI know I can export a branch in devstack (stable/mitaka) and it will apply to all15:10
anteayaif you can't work backwards to timestamps then I think you are one at a time removing patches to find the last best state15:10
anteayaor that15:10
lennybcan I provide a local.conf with a special commit for neutron for example?15:12
anteayaah sure15:12
anteayaI'm not sure how much help I personally can be if you do15:12
anteayabut sure you can do so15:12
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anteayaperhaps eantyshev might be get something useful from that15:12
lennybI know it works with refs/.../patchset number, but I need to map gerrit patchset with git commit15:13
anteayaeantyshev: we'll finish with lennyb and then you can share your announcement, if that is okay with you?15:13
anteayalennyb: hmmmm15:13
eantyshevanteaya: I don't see the problem at first glance15:14
anteayaeantyshev: thank you15:14
eantyshevanteaya: perfect15:14
anteayathanks15:14
anteayalennyb: we might be into the territory where we would need fungi, clarkb or jeblair's help15:14
lennybok, I will try to ping them later15:15
anteayabut it is Labor Day today in the states so they might not be online today15:15
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anteayalennyb: you can keep explaining and eantyshev and I can listen15:15
anteayaif you have more explaining to share15:15
anteayaI'm just not sure how much help I can be15:15
lennybSince each stack.sh run pulls the latest code I am interested to find a way to be persistent with the devstack15:16
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anteayawell that depends on what you want to test15:17
anteayadevstack for testing is designed to test the most recent code15:17
eantyshevlennyb: we solve this by working with local clone of devstack15:17
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anteayaif you don't want devstack to clone new code but want it to run with existing code you can set the config to offline I do believe15:17
anteayathe exact config setting is in the devstack docs15:18
mmedvedelennyb: if you want to go the path of bisecting which patch broke you, you can use commit sha as well. I once had to do it. It was tricky due to having to decide which repository out of about 20 to bisect15:18
anteayahey mmedvede, glad you are here15:18
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mmedvedelennyb: if you think it is devstack that broke you, makes it easier. Definitely many ways to pin devstack. One of them is to pin it in pre_test_hook (if you use devstack-gate)15:19
mmedvedehi anteaya15:19
lennybthe problem that I dont know were to start bisecting ( cinder/neutron/nova/devstack ) :).  I will start probably with devstack15:19
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anteayalennyb: yeah if you don't have timestamps to help you, I think you just pick one at a time, unless you have some indication in the test where to begin15:20
lennybthanks.15:20
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mmedvedelennyb: as anteaya mentioned, if you can narrow down time when you started breaking, it would help. You can then check which repositories had patches merge during that time window15:20
anteayathank you for asking about it, I hope you make progress15:21
lennybthanks. I am done with the issue.15:21
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anteayathanks lennyb15:22
anteayaanymore before we move to eantyshev's announcement?15:22
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anteayaeantyshev: you're up15:22
eantyshevlast time I asked here which version of Jenkins I need to setup CI. Turned out, I need some old version like 1.651.1. It needs some amendment to puppet-openstackci, which depend on puppet-jenkins (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/354086/)15:22
eantyshevbut the above change doesn't work, due to https://issues.jenkins-ci.org/browse/INFRA-9215:23
anteayahmmmm, that's unfortunate15:23
eantyshevas jenkins doesn't provide old versions in apt repositories. They only available as .deb files15:24
anteayathis is an old issue15:24
eantyshevSo, i'm deciding: should I strive to get rid of Jenkins in my CI, too15:24
anteayathe bug isn't getting any attention15:24
anteayacan you install from .deb files at all?15:25
anteayacan you try that route first?15:25
anteayaI'm guessing asselin is observing labor day today15:25
eantyshevI tried, but I want this to be automated in puppet, so I don't have to manually update everything15:26
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anteayaeantyshev: hmmm, I think we talked about taking this to the infra list last time but then it got resolved and we didn't have a ml discussion about it15:27
anteayaeantyshev: given this upstream issue that isn't getting any attention, do you feel you would post to the ml about this?15:27
anteayathis will affect other puppet jenkins users15:28
anteayaI think we need to increase the general awareness of what you have uncovered here15:28
anteayaeantyshev: what do you think?15:28
eantyshevwell, this is really a chance15:28
anteayachance or change?15:29
eantyshevI'll try it, to post this to ml15:29
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mmedvedethere was also the security workaround patch to make newer versions of jenkins work, at cost of disabling the security feature that breaks it. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/334400/15:29
anteayathank you I appreciate it15:29
mmedvedeit would not merge as is15:29
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anteayayeah, I think a post kicking off a general chat about the puppet-jenkins module would be good15:30
anteayamention the upstream version issue and this security issue15:30
anteayawe want the puppet-jenkins module to be usable15:30
eantyshevmmedvede: well, that's not the same problem, I know this one15:31
anteayaand if it has gotten into the state where it isn't we need to discuss this15:31
anteayaeantyshev: right but mmedvede's point I believe is that both issues affect the same module15:31
anteayaso having the discussion about the module as a whole might be the most effective way to introduce the topic15:31
anteayarather than considering the issues to be separate15:32
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mmedvedeeantyshev: my point was that the reason you need older jenkins is that it does not have that security feature in it15:33
mmedvedeso these two related. 3 ways to get jenkins to work: explicitly allow certain parameters to be passed15:34
anteayammedvede: ah sorry15:34
anteayammedvede: thanks for clarifying15:34
mmedvede2) use older version of jenkins15:34
mmedvede3) disable security in new version of jenkins15:34
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anteayaeantyshev: what do you think?15:37
anteayaare we still discussing this item?15:39
anteayaare we going to see a mailing list post?15:39
anteayawhat would we like to do?15:39
anteayaI can only assume that eantyshev has gone offline for some reason15:40
mmedvedelooks like it15:40
anteayadoes anyone have any other items they would like to discuss today?15:41
anteayammedvede: yeah, so we can come back to this or follow up in -infra15:41
anteayaanyone with any other items today?15:41
anteayaokay so when eantyshev comes back we can discuss in the -infra channel or pick up at next weeks' meeting whichever he likes15:42
anteayadoes anyone have any objections to me closing today's meeting?15:42
anteayanote I'm offline the rest of today to observe Canada's Labour Day15:43
lennybenjoy15:43
anteayathank you all for attending15:43
anteayalennyb: thank you15:43
anteayaenjoy the rest of your day/evening15:43
mmedvedethanks anteaya15:43
anteayasee you all next week15:43
anteaya#endmeeting15:43
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:43
openstackMeeting ended Mon Sep  5 15:43:33 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:43
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-09-05-15.06.html15:43
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-09-05-15.06.txt15:43
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-09-05-15.06.log.html15:43
anteayammedvede: :)15:43
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matjazp#startmeeting training-guides17:00
openstackMeeting started Mon Sep  5 17:00:38 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is matjazp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: training-guides)"17:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'training_guides'17:00
matjazphey all17:00
matjazproll call17:00
ildikovo/17:00
matjazpAgenda at https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/training-guides-meeting-agenda17:01
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diablo_rojoHello17:01
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matjazphey ildikov diablo_rojo17:01
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matjazpFirst, lets agree on IRC meeting frequency17:02
matjazp#info we'll switch back to the weekly meeting format, at least until Summit (agreed on Docs ML)17:02
matjazpthere were no objections, so I guess I'll see you all next week, right? :)17:02
ianychoiHello yes +117:02
matjazphey ianychoi17:02
ianychoiHi matjazp! :)17:03
ildikovmatjazp: I have a collision for next week17:03
ildikovbut that should not hold the whole team back from having the meeting :)17:03
matjazpildikov: np. I just hope the attendance will be >1 ;)17:03
ildikovso my vote is weekly until the Summit still17:03
ildikovmatjazp: that I hope so too!17:04
ildikov:)17:04
ildikovwe have lots of work to do17:04
ianychoiActually, we might change the wat of our current 1st and 3rd week in every month17:04
matjazpildikov: +1... since there were no objections on ML, I guess we can safely switch and that the attendance will be better17:04
matjazp#topic Review of action items from the previous meeting17:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Review of action items from the previous meeting (Meeting topic: training-guides)"17:04
matjazphttp://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/training_guides/2016/training_guides.2016-08-15-17.00.html17:04
matjazpildikov: just for backup.. did you check with dreamhost?17:05
ildikovthe last time I talked to Stefano at Dreamhost he was supportive17:05
matjazpcool17:05
matjazpI saw some feedback for openstack-training-virtual-environment17:06
ildikovI haven't talked to him since and in the meantime we also decided to go with local VMs17:06
matjazpso i guess that action item is developing17:06
ildikovI will ping him and double check to be sure we have backup17:06
matjazpildikov: yes, local as primary platform, but VMs in the cloud as a backup for a few17:07
ildikovI think so, I think Mark will be available tomorrow17:07
ianychoiCool... okay17:07
ildikovor at least according to Doodle17:07
matjazpwe don't need much.. just a plan b if someone's laptop "dies"17:07
matjazpok moving on17:08
matjazp#topic Upstream training17:08
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*** openstack changes topic to "Upstream training (Meeting topic: training-guides)"17:08
matjazp#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/upstream-university-improvements17:08
matjazp#info Upstream training virtual sprint September 6, 12-13 and 16: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/VirtualSprints#Upstream_training_Sprint17:08
ildikovmatjazp: well, if the laptop itself dies, that's a bigger issue than public cloud, but I got the point :)17:08
ildikovmatjazp: thanks17:09
ildikovI think I set up everything for the sprint days17:09
matjazpok, just to fine tune the topic17:09
ildikovI mean we have an IRC channel that can be used, I added a Google Hangouts link17:09
matjazp#topic Upstream training virtual sprint: topics and goals17:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Upstream training virtual sprint: topics and goals (Meeting topic: training-guides)"17:09
ianychoiCool :)17:09
matjazpildikov: stage is yours :)17:09
ildikovhaha, tnx :)17:09
ildikovmy bad, I should've changed the order17:10
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ildikovso we have four days when most of us is available17:10
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ildikovI added the details to the wiki, I can send out one more reminder mail, maybe I can even add the dev list this time, I don't know whether we would have anyone from there showing up to help17:10
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ildikovwith diablo_rojo we also started to add a few new etherpads to the topics to have better readability on the material17:11
ildikovand plan17:11
ildikovs17:11
matjazpexcelent17:11
ildikovI think as primary focus we would need to work on the common items and code contribution17:11
ildikovI mean these two bigger parts17:12
ianychoiHope that many more people will participate on.17:12
diablo_rojoI got code contribution :)17:12
ianychoiHow do think about sandbox launchpad?17:12
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ildikovalso if anyone has the capacity and haven't tried yet we also need to finalise the VM setup17:12
ianychoiildikov, you can try the VM setup during the sprint :)17:12
ildikovianychoi: I think that would be good to play with bug reports17:13
diablo_rojoOnce I get done with the code contribution section I can work on it if someone else hasn't picked it up by then.17:13
ildikovianychoi: right, when I'm sick of the content I'll go and play with the VMs :)17:13
matjazpildikov: true,.. in my experience, ppl always try to spin up the VM in the Devstack and expect to be available on the "internet".. so I usually modified similar setup as is this with a "proper" net config17:13
ildikovdiablo_rojo: kmARC is working on the VM setup, he needs feedback and maybe some finalisation with the network setup17:14
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diablo_rojoildikov, I can definitely give feedback, not sure how much I can help with networking, but I will try : )17:14
ildikovdiablo_rojo: if you can provide feedback, that's already very helpful :)17:15
diablo_rojoCan do :)17:15
matjazpI used vagrant for my class, and added a config for KVM provider, its much more performant that virtualbox17:15
ildikovdiablo_rojo: if you cannot reach kmARC on IRC, then just drop a mail if there's anything17:15
diablo_rojoSounds good.17:16
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matjazpnot tommorow, but I can look at the networking part and help there17:16
ildikovmatjazp: if that works for all operating systems more backup options is always better17:16
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matjazpildikov: sure, but with vbox, not with KVM provider17:17
ildikovmatjazp: cool, we have multiple days for virtual sprint and also the weekly meetings to discuss17:17
ildikovmatjazp: ah, ok17:17
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ildikovso back to the sprints a bit17:17
matjazpkvm provider needs Linux host17:17
matjazpok17:17
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matjazpwhat is the focus for tomorrow?17:18
ildikovsorry, I would like to be sure the sprints goals are set before we run out of time :)17:18
ildikovso as I said I think we have two main modules that would be great to finish asap17:18
ildikovthe common parts and code contribution17:19
ildikovdiablo_rojo volunteered to drive the code contrib part, we have an etherpad for it: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/upstream-uni-code-contribution17:19
ildikovi also started to draft my ideas for the common items: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/upstream-uni-common-items17:20
diablo_rojoI should have a patch up in the next day or so for the initial changes. The next step after that is to get the exercises in.17:20
matjazp#info Upstream sprint 6 Sep https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/upstream-uni-code-contribution and  https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/upstream-uni-common-items17:20
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ildikovI don't think we should work on only one or the other tomorrow17:21
diablo_rojoI agree.17:21
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ianychoi#link http://docs.openstack.org/upstream-training/#outline-and-online-slide-index17:22
ildikovif we have more people online at the same time we can brainstorm and finalise ideas and content any blocks in these two modules17:22
ianychoiildikov, so we may need to change the table of contents? like 'Common' section, 'Code contribution', ..?17:22
ildikovianychoi: we will need to, yes17:22
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matjazp#undo17:23
ildikovianychoi: is that generated from the trainig-guides repo also?17:23
openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0x7f5bc02e0ed0>17:23
matjazpildikov: thats the landing page17:23
matjazpin the same repo17:24
ildikovok, cool17:24
matjazpwe generate slides and a landing page that connects everything together17:24
matjazpso it's easy to change/restructure anything17:24
ildikovthat sounds great17:25
matjazpwe can easily move content form slide format to the text and vice versa17:25
ildikovI think we might change the overall ToC only at the end17:25
ianychoiYep actually I have not deeply seen two additional etherpads, but some table of content "organization" stuff is needed17:25
matjazpeverything in in RST17:25
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ildikovianychoi: I will add a main block to the top of the main etherpad17:25
ildikovand we can work on the details of each block in the separate etherpads17:26
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ildikovand the high level agenda can be the skeleton for the whole class and then we can agree on one level lower details in the separate etherpads17:26
ildikovif this makes sense17:26
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ianychoiildikov, okay, and I heard that Lego will not be used in Barcelona upstream training. However, I would like to keep Lego section as '(Optional)' section.17:27
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ildikovianychoi: we will not have Lego at all and also we only have 1,5 days this time17:27
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ildikovianychoi: I thought to focus a bit on the message of the Lego block at the beginning, talk a little bit about Agile terms and discuss why OpenStack has the way of working what it has today17:28
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ianychoiildikov, okay I see.17:29
ianychoiAnd it would be much better if we set our desired timeline during 1.5 days17:29
ildikovianychoi: also Lana cannot come to the training this time unfortunately and she really is the queen of facilitating that game :(17:29
ildikovianychoi: I agree17:30
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ildikovI had ideas to have the common items during Sunday afternoon and maybe Monday morning as well17:30
ianychoiildikov, Yep Lana updated a lot of Lego content last time.17:30
ildikovshe saved us in Austin, if she wasn't there the Lego game would've been a disaster!17:31
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ildikovafter the common parts we have options in my mind17:31
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ildikovwe either try to run parallel sessions or do things still in order, focus much on the code contribution, hands on parts and also talk about other ways of contributing, like working groups or docs as a main focus, etc.17:32
diablo_rojoThat sounds like a good plan to me17:33
matjazpyou mean parallel sessions with different topics?17:33
ianychoiI have just found that the 1st day (Sunday) is for 4 hours and the 2nd day (Monday) is for 6 hours17:33
ildikovthe training registration form has a question about people's primary interest, if everyone says code it will be easy to design the training :)17:34
ildikovmatjazp: at a certain point maybe, I'm less and less sure we can make that happen in Barcelona17:34
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ianychoiIt is relatively short.. but fine17:34
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ildikovmatjazp: the idea is not about distract the developers, but give a chance to architects, manager or operators to attend the training and participate in OpenStack17:34
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ianychoiParallel sessions may depend on the number of participants17:35
ildikovianychoi: I will double check, I remembered Sunday is relatively short, I thought Monday is longer17:35
ildikovianychoi: also much on the participants, so what I shared above is more long term ideas rather than strict plan for Barcelona17:36
ildikovthis is why I think we should focus on the common parts and code contrib during the virtual sprints with a 'hands-on and interactive' mind set17:37
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ildikovif we can get that two right and maybe some small blocks of info about other areas, then I think people will be satisfied when they leave17:37
ildikovI tried to get people involved to have content for other blocks, but that goes slow too17:38
ildikovianychoi: does it make sense? ^^17:39
matjazpfor the sprint: we could also increase the pool of possible contributors with a list of predefined smaller tasks they can pick up... for devs that just want to help a bit and don't have time to engage "full" time17:39
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ildikovmatjazp: that's a good idea17:39
ianychoiI have some ideas on parallel sessions if we would like to run. 1) defining what type of parallel sessions: a) bug report and fix b) code contribution c) user group (community) participation d) blueprint   2) how the number of each group will make sense? three? four? 3) For each group, there should be at least one mentor.17:40
diablo_rojoI had thought about that too, it will depend on what tasks exist in the community that are easy enough to pick up.17:40
ianychoiildikov, yep make sense :) I was writing my ideas above17:40
ildikovI think we could do that tomorrow in order to have more people next week to get stuff done17:41
matjazpildikov: we usually just enter this small tasks as bugs, but we can also leave them in the etherpad, but we need to see that there is no duplication of effort.17:41
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ildikovianychoi: hmm, I think bug and blueprint are under code contrib, but we can chat about it tomorrow or next week on one of the sprint days :)17:42
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ianychoiBefore upstream training, some mentors selected 'low-hanging-fruit' bugs which were relevant during upstream training17:42
ildikovmatjazp: sure, I thought to add items to the etherpad and then let people sign up17:42
matjazpdiablo_rojo: I'm talking about tasks to contribute to the Training guides/Upstream training (as in: rewrite the topic about IRC, include this and that on the page, etc.)17:43
matjazpdiablo_rojo: you're talking about tasks that they can do AT the training, right?17:43
ildikovianychoi: ah ok, I misunderstood what you wrote17:43
ildikovianychoi: if you check the common parts etherpad I added a question about creating groups already at the beginning, so I think we kind of think about a similar setup :)17:44
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diablo_rojomatjazp, Ah I missed the contributing to the training guides part, I thought you meant the big tent projects.17:44
ianychoiildikov, fine :) And I most liked IRC participation during upstream training. How was it during last Austin upstream training?17:44
ildikovianychoi: it wasn't that active17:44
matjazpdiablo_rojo: we need both types of tasks17:44
diablo_rojoI know that the focus is things they can do at the training though :)17:44
matjazpone for the training, and other for the sprint17:45
ildikovianychoi: unfortunately the presenters including myself we weren't prepared for the training well enough :(17:45
diablo_rojoildikov, We will be ready this time17:46
ildikovmatjazp: it could be one small task to people to identify items that people can work on17:46
ianychoiildikov, that's quite okay. For me I was so satisfied with upstream training because I learned how OpenStack people make decisions and how they contribute.17:46
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ildikovdiablo_rojo: nah, we will never be ready, I'm sure, but we will be way more prepared :)17:46
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ildikovianychoi: that's what I would like to bring back17:47
ildikovianychoi: much more discussions within the groups of students and with the trainers17:47
ianychoiFor common section, I am not sure, but usually famous guys emphasize '4 opens' for OpenStack and illustrate how '4 opens' reflect in OpenStack17:47
ildikovand also more things that teach people how to find information and how to solve problems, etc.17:48
diablo_rojoildikov, touche :)17:48
ianychoiAnd then trainers illustrated how IRC is important to discuss and make decision.17:48
ildikovianychoi: good point, I'll add it there17:48
ianychoiI will read ildikov 's common section items on Etherpad thanks, ildikov !17:49
ildikovianychoi: :)17:49
matjazpok, do we have any action items for next week?17:50
ianychoiAa, and project code contribution and document code contribution may be different, so both will be treated differently I think. How do you think, diablo_rojo ?17:50
ildikovI think to revisit what we've done this week mostly17:50
ildikovnext Monday is also a sprint day, so the meeting can be used as a checkpoint17:51
matjazpianychoi: contributing to the docs is very similar to contributing code17:51
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ildikovianychoi: diablo_rojo: I had a short mail chat with Lana and she is against differentiating17:51
matjazpianychoi: same process17:51
diablo_rojoianychoi, I think they are slightly, different, but I'm not sure they are different enough that they need to be different sections.17:51
matjazpdiablo_rojo: agree17:52
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ildikovmy thinking is that we should have that as part of the code contribution part on the level of 'write docs to you feature'17:52
ianychoimatjazp, doing launchpad and gerrit is the same and they have same process, but the perspective can be different.17:52
matjazpdiablo_rojo: they are similar enough that we don't need to distinguish them17:52
ianychoiMoreover, student's expectation might be different.17:52
ildikovI think if it comes to OpenStack Manuals, that's different17:52
diablo_rojoildikov, +117:52
ianychoi+1 for ildikov :)17:53
ildikovif we have tech writers among the students, I would like to have a docs section to them while others are playing with the unit tests and hacking the Python code17:53
diablo_rojoThat could work17:53
diablo_rojoSix min left as a heads up17:54
ianychoiAnd one more.... matjazp, I am not sure where upunbot on #upstream-university.. For this bot, maybe Tim Freund or Loic operated..17:54
ildikovI think that makes more sense, we might think about how to help those who're interested in OpenStack Manuals to work together with the community, understand projects and code on the level they need and most importantly really how to get along with people here17:54
matjazpianychoi: don't think so... we should just ask infra team17:54
ianychoiIn this case, incorporating "openstack" bot into the channel will be the right choice?17:54
ildikovbut that's not for Barcelona, that's too close to have this covered17:55
ianychoiI think upunbot is not openstack-infra's result..17:55
ianychoiI remember that the eavesdrop HTML results from upunbot was not eavesdrop.openstack.org17:56
matjazphmm.. anyone wants to investigate this?17:56
* ildikov is not a bot specialist17:56
ianychoiHmm.... Me will investigate this :)17:56
matjazp#action ianychoi looks into bot for #upstream-university channel17:56
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matjazpmove to aob?17:57
ildikovthanks ianychoi! :)17:57
ianychoiildikov, it's my pleasure :)17:57
ianychoiOkay17:57
matjazp#topic any other business17:57
*** openstack changes topic to "any other business (Meeting topic: training-guides)"17:57
ildikovif everyone has an idea on what to work on tomorrow, then AOB is fine with me :)17:57
matjazpanything else?17:57
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matjazpildikov: etherpad is the source of the truth ;)17:57
ianychoiBy the way, matjazp , will you attend all of four days on Summit?17:58
ildikovmatjazp: +1 :)17:58
matjazpianychoi: I'll try to, but don't know yet.. it's in the middle of the semester17:58
ianychoiI definitely wanted to go to Barcelona, but unfortunately my two presentation submissions were not selected.17:58
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matjazpok, I guess that's it for tonight17:59
matjazpthanks for your time17:59
matjazpsee you around17:59
ildikovthanks guys17:59
matjazpbye!17:59
ianychoiSo I am not still sure whether I can go to Barcelona, but I would like to help upstream training as much as possible17:59
ianychoiThank you all!18:00
matjazp#endmeeting18:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"18:00
openstackMeeting ended Mon Sep  5 18:00:08 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/training_guides/2016/training_guides.2016-09-05-17.00.html18:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/training_guides/2016/training_guides.2016-09-05-17.00.txt18:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/training_guides/2016/training_guides.2016-09-05-17.00.log.html18:00
ildikovianychoi: use that as a reason if you can!18:00
ildikovI mean to come to Barcelona18:00
ianychoiildikov, :-)18:00
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