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| hongbin_ | #startmeeting zun | 03:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 6 03:00:09 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is hongbin_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 03:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 03:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'zun' | 03:00 |
| hongbin_ | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun#Agenda_for_2016-09-06_0300_UTC Today's agenda | 03:00 |
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| hongbin_ | #topic Roll Call | 03:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:00 | |
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| yanyanhu | hello | 03:00 |
| Namrata | Namrata | 03:00 |
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| haiwei_ | hi | 03:00 |
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| sudipto | o/ | 03:00 |
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| Wenzhi | hi | 03:01 |
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| yuanying | hi | 03:01 |
| hongbin_ | Thanks for joining the meeting yanyanhu Namrata haiwei_ sudipto Wenzhi yuanying | 03:01 |
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| shu-mutou | hi | 03:01 |
| shubhams | hi | 03:01 |
| hongbin_ | shu-mutou: shubhams Thanks for joining | 03:02 |
| hongbin_ | #topic Announcements | 03:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:02 | |
| hongbin_ | 1. Project rename finished: our project has been renamed in Gerrit and Github last Friday. | 03:02 |
| hongbin_ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/329247/ | 03:02 |
| hongbin_ | So, everything is renamed to Zun now | 03:02 |
| yanyanhu | cool | 03:03 |
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| hongbin_ | #topic Review Action Items | 03:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Action Items (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:03 | |
| hongbin_ | 1. hongbin raise a ML to discuss container image (DONE) | 03:03 |
| hongbin_ | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-September/102777.html | 03:03 |
| hongbin_ | It looks nobody replied to the ML, but we can discuss it later in the agenda | 03:03 |
| hongbin_ | #topic Nova integration (Namrata) | 03:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Nova integration (Namrata) (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:03 | |
| hongbin_ | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/nova-integration The BP | 03:03 |
| hongbin_ | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-containers-nova-integration The etherpad | 03:04 |
| hongbin_ | Namrata: ^^ | 03:04 |
| Namrata | hi.. | 03:04 |
| Namrata | i worked on my bp last night(here) | 03:04 |
| Namrata | but i guess there is some error(-1 jenkins) | 03:04 |
| Namrata | so i will see it today | 03:04 |
| Namrata | i have some doubts to clear | 03:04 |
| hongbin_ | Namrata: btw, the -1 on jenkins has nothing to do with your patch | 03:05 |
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| Namrata | i am new.Then what it refers to? | 03:05 |
| hongbin_ | Namrata: it is something incorrect in project-config, and it will be fixed https://review.openstack.org/#/c/365803/ | 03:05 |
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| Namrata | okay cool | 03:06 |
| sudipto | hongbin_, wondering why that job is added as a part of the build? | 03:06 |
| sudipto | we don't need the devstack jobs for specs - do we? | 03:07 |
| hongbin_ | sudipto: the job will run on every patches | 03:07 |
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| hongbin_ | sudipto: however, we can disable it if the patch is a spec | 03:07 |
| sudipto | hongbin_, agreed, | 03:07 |
| sudipto | that was my point too. | 03:07 |
| hongbin_ | will create a bug for that | 03:07 |
| hongbin_ | #action create a bug to disable devstack job if a patch is a spec or doc change | 03:08 |
| sudipto | hongbin_, apologies for not replying to the ML - I had customer meet ups till Friday and yesterday was a site holiday. | 03:08 |
| hongbin_ | sudipto: NP at all | 03:09 |
| sudipto | I will catch up with you today! in your day time. Anyway - let's continue. | 03:09 |
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| hongbin_ | Namrata: anything else from you about nova integration? | 03:09 |
| Namrata | no | 03:09 |
| hongbin_ | Thanks Namrata | 03:09 |
| Namrata | i will update the patch | 03:09 |
| Namrata | thanks | 03:09 |
| hongbin_ | #topic Container image store | 03:09 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Container image store (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:09 | |
| hongbin_ | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/glance-integration | 03:10 |
| hongbin_ | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-container-image | 03:10 |
| hongbin_ | OK, let's discuss the container image | 03:10 |
| hongbin_ | let's continue from the ML | 03:10 |
| hongbin_ | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-September/102777.html | 03:10 |
| hongbin_ | what we agreed is to support a special prefix 'glance/' | 03:11 |
| hongbin_ | if a container image name has that prefix (i.e. glance/busybox), then pull it from Glance | 03:11 |
| hongbin_ | if not, pull it from the Docker Hub | 03:11 |
| hongbin_ | so far, any comment? | 03:12 |
| yanyanhu | yes, this makes sense. Another option is we always try to pull image from local registry(glance) | 03:12 |
| yanyanhu | if not found, try to pull from docker hub, e.g. | 03:13 |
| hongbin_ | yanyanhu: yes, that could be an alternative | 03:13 |
| hongbin_ | what are the pros and cons | 03:13 |
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| Wenzhi | glance can provide multi-tenancy support | 03:14 |
| sudipto | The reason why yanyanhu 's proposal is better is probably because - if you have a compose file that has been worked on a different COE (say kubernetes) - when you run it in zun - it should run as is, without any edits. | 03:14 |
| hongbin_ | sudipto: i see | 03:15 |
| yanyanhu | yes, this is one important reason | 03:15 |
| hongbin_ | sudipto: I agree with that the advantage is the portability | 03:15 |
| yanyanhu | to keep compatible | 03:15 |
| haiwei_ | agree, make glance as the first priority seems reasonable | 03:16 |
| hongbin_ | ok, any oppositing point of view? | 03:16 |
| hongbin_ | if no, i mark it as a agreed | 03:16 |
| sudipto | another conflicting point | 03:16 |
| shubhams | hongbin : should we provide a command to set up and config a local repo . something line : zun --repo-create and zun --repo-config (thats inside glance) and in zun --create provide option "use-repo" for which value can be "local repo" or "other" | 03:17 |
| sudipto | are we on the same page w.r.t having this in glance or glare? | 03:17 |
| sudipto | I can't seem to understand the way forward... | 03:17 |
| sudipto | nikhil, hi - are you here? | 03:17 |
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| sudipto | looks like he isn't. | 03:18 |
| hongbin_ | shubhams: your suggestion is to introduce a new API to manage image repo? | 03:18 |
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| shubhams | hongbin : yes and that way we can allow user/admin to manage their repo | 03:18 |
| haiwei_ | why not use glance directly? shubhams | 03:19 |
| Wenzhi | agreed ^^ | 03:19 |
| shubhams | there might be cases when they want to use their repo in private and do not want to share and their might be cases when they first want to pull images and then make changes and push them directly in their local repo only | 03:19 |
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| sudipto | glance should be able to handle that no? | 03:20 |
| haiwei_ | I think so | 03:21 |
| shubhams | sudipto: I think glance should be able to handle that but need confirmation and api should be added just for better management | 03:21 |
| sudipto | agreed some evaluation is needed. I am broadly confused about the way forward for image management vs artefact management as well. | 03:22 |
| shubhams | user/admin knows better from where they want an image (based on their usecase) | 03:22 |
| sudipto | yeah that's the functionality that glance provides - multi-tenancy | 03:22 |
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| nikhil | O/ | 03:23 |
| hongbin_ | I think shubhams point is valid. There might be use cases that users want to always pull from docker hub | 03:23 |
| sudipto | agreed. | 03:23 |
| hongbin_ | because all the images are versioned there | 03:23 |
| hongbin_ | in this case, a config is needed for operators to define a list of repo | 03:24 |
| hongbin_ | and the order of each repo | 03:24 |
| shubhams | If we try to decide it by ourself in zun code( like first check in local repo and then checks online) then it might add unnecessary time for pulling because you are first waiting for local repo and then asking for docker hun | 03:24 |
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| nikhil | I don't know your use case for artifacts , image management is currently only glance | 03:25 |
| sudipto | yeah the only thing is - you are going to still have the same problem with the ordering of config option. That is the lower order repo has the image - you would reach there only after evaluating the higher order ones. | 03:26 |
| sudipto | nikhil, ok | 03:27 |
| hongbin_ | yes, it is up to the operators to define a good list of repos and their orders to minimize the misses | 03:28 |
| hongbin_ | if they don't want multiple repos, define a list with single repo | 03:28 |
| hongbin_ | then images will be always pulled from that repo | 03:28 |
| shubhams | one more use case: If we manage repo and addition of images is the job of admin then they can pull images in background without affecting others and users of those images can seemlessly use local repo only. | 03:29 |
| shubhams | That will be a kind of abstraction which users of images will have . probably good from security perspective as well | 03:29 |
| nikhil | It almost looks like you guys are talking about different backends | 03:30 |
| sudipto | shubhams, how would the admin know - what image to pull? | 03:30 |
| nikhil | Rather than different repositories | 03:30 |
| nikhil | Key difference is abstraction fir | 03:30 |
| sudipto | nikhil, we are basically talking about everything atm, we will definitely use glance at some point in time after we settle the dust :) | 03:30 |
| hongbin_ | nikhil: the initial proposal is to pull from glance first, if there is a miss, pull it from DOcker hub | 03:31 |
| hongbin_ | nikhil: then the discussion evolve to let admins define a list of repos and define their orders | 03:31 |
| nikhil | From users perspective is way simple for diff backends rather than repo | 03:31 |
| nikhil | hongbin_: so... | 03:31 |
| hongbin_ | nikhil: nothing, just explain | 03:32 |
| nikhil | Glance has this image locations feature for admins | 03:32 |
| nikhil | Sryy ipad==typo and less speed | 03:32 |
| nikhil | Using locations you can define strategy to pull images from in a specific order /algorithm | 03:33 |
| hongbin_ | nikhil: thx. good to knnow | 03:33 |
| sudipto | nikhil, wasn't that something you wanted to deprecate? since it was a security hole or something? (Sorry if i am wrong) | 03:34 |
| nikhil | I think if we can think of docker hub as anothrt backend for glance | 03:34 |
| nikhil | Darn... We need better at communicating | 03:34 |
| nikhil | Not deprecate for admins | 03:34 |
| hongbin_ | ok, maybe we need to investigate the glance feature further | 03:35 |
| nikhil | Anyway, from my perspective a good opportunity to create a docker hub driver in glance store just like one exists for ceph, swift , http etc | 03:35 |
| nikhil | My$0.02, thx! | 03:36 |
| hongbin_ | nikhil: thanks for your advice | 03:36 |
| hongbin_ | ok, folks, let's think of this topic further, and re-discuss it at the next meeting | 03:37 |
| sudipto | nikhil, thank you! | 03:37 |
| hongbin_ | #topic Container network | 03:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Container network (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:37 | |
| hongbin_ | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/neutron-integration | 03:37 |
| hongbin_ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/365754/ | 03:37 |
| hongbin_ | for this topic, i proposed a spec | 03:37 |
| hongbin_ | i can briefly explain the spec a little | 03:38 |
| hongbin_ | requirement, bind neutron ports to container so that containers have networking | 03:38 |
| hongbin_ | like a vm, it should have private ip address, ability to attach floating ip, has security group, etc. | 03:39 |
| sudipto | hongbin_, sure... | 03:39 |
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| hongbin_ | the proposed method: | 03:39 |
| hongbin_ | 1. use nova-docker to provision an empty container | 03:39 |
| hongbin_ | 2. nova-docker will attach neutron ports to the empty container, so it has networking | 03:40 |
| hongbin_ | 3. has zun provision a container (called zun container), has the zun container attach to the empty container | 03:40 |
| hongbin_ | by using "docker run --net=container:<container>" | 03:41 |
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| hongbin_ | then, the zun container will have the same network with the empty container | 03:41 |
| hongbin_ | because the "--net" option allow to create a container to join the network namespace of existing container | 03:42 |
| sudipto | hongbin_, why nova-docker? | 03:42 |
| hongbin_ | sudipto: it doesn't need to be nova-docker, but it needs to be a nova virt driver that provision container | 03:42 |
| hongbin_ | sudipto: the point is to leverage nova to do everything for us | 03:43 |
| hongbin_ | sudipto: rather than re-inventing everything by ourselves | 03:43 |
| sudipto | ok, | 03:43 |
| sudipto | Ingress in kubernetes does a similar thing... | 03:44 |
| sudipto | however, that's for a POD. | 03:44 |
| hongbin_ | yes, consider it as a pod here | 03:44 |
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| sudipto | and why would you use a POD kinda thing for a single container? | 03:44 |
| hongbin_ | has nova-docker (or a new virt driver) to provision a pod | 03:44 |
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| hongbin_ | has zun to provision container inside a pod | 03:45 |
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| sudipto | ok - my confusion is -is this talking about the COE implementation of ZUN? | 03:45 |
| hongbin_ | sudipto: no, it is runtime implementation | 03:45 |
| sudipto | or you just in general want the containers to be accessible for users? | 03:45 |
| sudipto | ok | 03:45 |
| hongbin_ | i mean from implementation point of view, this is similar to k8s pod | 03:46 |
| sudipto | ok got it. | 03:46 |
| sudipto | POD == 1 container in this case. | 03:46 |
| hongbin_ | yes | 03:46 |
| sudipto | Also is this an config option? or is it mandatory? | 03:46 |
| sudipto | s/an/a | 03:47 |
| hongbin_ | this is mandatory, otherwise, container will have no networking | 03:47 |
| sudipto | but that makes us heavily dependent on nova to accept the nova docker or whatever virt driver we write... | 03:47 |
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| hongbin_ | sudipto: yes, there is a hard dependency on nova | 03:48 |
| hongbin_ | sudipto: however, we should control the virt driver | 03:48 |
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| sudipto | Talking about a situation where consumers of zun - will have to get the nova driver from out of tree or something. | 03:49 |
| hongbin_ | sudipto: we can develop a custom virt driver in zun tree | 03:49 |
| sudipto | hongbin_, hmm ok... | 03:50 |
| hongbin_ | sudipto: i know it might be complicated for consume, but other methods needs to copy almost the entire nova to zun | 03:51 |
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| hongbin_ | sudipto: at least, all the networking bits, which is undesirable | 03:51 |
| sudipto | hongbin_, hmm, yeah that's definitely not good. if unless we have any other alternative. | 03:51 |
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| hongbin_ | comment? | 03:52 |
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| yanyanhu | hongbin_, actually, agree with sudipto, maybe we should also consider other alternate if there is one | 03:53 |
| hongbin_ | yanyanhu: sure | 03:53 |
| yanyanhu | since this is really a hard dependency on nova-docker | 03:53 |
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| hongbin_ | that is true | 03:53 |
| hongbin_ | let's leave it one week, and revisit it at the next meeting | 03:54 |
| yanyanhu | sure | 03:54 |
| Wenzhi | I think it's Ok to depend on nova-docker or other virt driver for now, otherwise we need to copy code from nova | 03:54 |
| hongbin_ | at the same time, we could discuss it further on the review | 03:54 |
| yanyanhu | lets wait for more comments | 03:54 |
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| sudipto | agreed, let's wait a bit and revisit | 03:54 |
| Wenzhi | agreed | 03:54 |
| hongbin_ | #topic Open Discussion | 03:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: zun)" | 03:55 | |
| shu-mutou | since renaming to zun is finished, it's time to create zun-ui subproject, I think. | 03:55 |
| sudipto | Just one update, I have got my dev environment up - and i will push that code into my github | 03:55 |
| sudipto | mysql + keystone/rabbit + zun | 03:55 |
| shu-mutou | if you guys are interested in zun-ui, please write up your name at last of following etherpad. https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/plan-for-zun-ui | 03:55 |
| yanyanhu | shu-mutou, +1 | 03:55 |
| hongbin_ | shu-mutou: yes, i am ok with that | 03:55 |
| yanyanhu | that will be very helpful for enduer | 03:56 |
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| Wenzhi | +1 | 03:56 |
| haiwei_ | shu-mutou , great | 03:56 |
| hongbin_ | shu-mutou: i will submit a request to create a ui repo | 03:56 |
| hongbin_ | shu-mutou: then we can start working on that | 03:56 |
| shu-mutou | thanks guys!! | 03:57 |
| shu-mutou | also, I will invite someone from horizon. | 03:57 |
| shu-mutou | OK? | 03:57 |
| hongbin_ | sure | 03:57 |
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| hongbin_ | #action hongbin help shu-mutou to create a new repo for ui | 03:58 |
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| hongbin_ | ok, nothing else? | 03:59 |
| hongbin_ | then let's end the meeting. time is up | 03:59 |
| hongbin_ | all, thanks for your attending this meeting | 03:59 |
| hongbin_ | hope to see you all next week | 03:59 |
| hongbin_ | #endmeeting | 03:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 03:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 6 03:59:57 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 03:59 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-09-06-03.00.html | 04:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-09-06-03.00.txt | 04:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-09-06-03.00.log.html | 04:00 |
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| Qiming | #startmeeting senlin | 13:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 6 13:01:11 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'senlin' | 13:01 |
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| yanyanhu | hello | 13:01 |
| zzxwill | Hi. | 13:01 |
| Qiming | hi | 13:01 |
| Qiming | just started meeting in senlin channel, the meeting bot is working there too, ;) | 13:02 |
| yanyanhu | :) | 13:02 |
| zzxwill | I felt strange just now as I saw a meeting room in senile channel. | 13:02 |
| elynn | hi | 13:03 |
| Qiming | yup, a mistake | 13:03 |
| Qiming | let's get started | 13:03 |
| zzxwill | okay | 13:03 |
| Qiming | #topic newton work items | 13:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "newton work items (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:03 | |
| Qiming | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-newton-workitems | 13:03 |
| yanyanhu | rally support | 13:03 |
| Qiming | testing side, the profile context one is finally in | 13:04 |
| yanyanhu | profile context patch has been merged | 13:04 |
| yanyanhu | yep | 13:04 |
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| yanyanhu | will work on cluster context in next step | 13:04 |
| yanyanhu | and have proposed patch to revise existing test job in senlin repo | 13:04 |
| yanyanhu | to use profile context support | 13:04 |
| Qiming | okay, just keep working on it | 13:04 |
| yanyanhu | https://review.openstack.org/365878 | 13:05 |
| yanyanhu | yep | 13:05 |
| Qiming | can remove the working item related with cmcc? | 13:05 |
| yanyanhu | hmm, feel so | 13:05 |
| Qiming | don't think they are investing on that | 13:05 |
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| yanyanhu | I think they are still using old version rally to perform the test | 13:06 |
| Qiming | sigh | 13:06 |
| yanyanhu | since their environment is also not latest one | 13:06 |
| yanyanhu | so we'd better help them mirgate to latest one | 13:06 |
| yanyanhu | will talk to eldon about it | 13:06 |
| Qiming | okay, thx | 13:06 |
| yanyanhu | no problem | 13:06 |
| Qiming | don't think xinhui is online, I don't have update on health management | 13:06 |
| Qiming | no update on documentation either | 13:07 |
| Qiming | the tutorial doc has pretty much what we have got today | 13:07 |
| Qiming | that item on line 21 can be removed | 13:07 |
| Qiming | just need to polish the wiki | 13:07 |
| yanyanhu | ok | 13:07 |
| yanyanhu | versioning support on policy/profile, it will be a work session in Barcelona | 13:07 |
| Qiming | yes | 13:08 |
| Qiming | before that, we can do some experiments now | 13:08 |
| yanyanhu | yes | 13:08 |
| Qiming | base everything that should be versioned on oslo.versionedobjects | 13:08 |
| yanyanhu | ok | 13:08 |
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| yanyanhu | hi, ruijie, welcome | 13:09 |
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| Qiming | we can remove the whole item and add a version control item into the FEATURES.rst? | 13:09 |
| ruijie | hi，yanyan,evening | 13:09 |
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| Qiming | hi, ruijie! | 13:09 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, sure | 13:09 |
| yanyanhu | will add it | 13:09 |
| ruijie | hi,qiming | 13:09 |
| Qiming | container support is pretty much there already | 13:10 |
| Qiming | a lot of features to be added though, but as a POC, it is working now | 13:10 |
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| Qiming | finally haiwei has got cycles to work on it | 13:10 |
| yanyanhu | great | 13:10 |
| yanyanhu | we have a work session on this as well | 13:11 |
| Qiming | yep | 13:11 |
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| Qiming | maybe (some of) you have noticed | 13:11 |
| Qiming | we have added a 'dependents' column to the node table | 13:11 |
| Qiming | that property will be deserialized and exposed to users | 13:11 |
| Qiming | we will use that column to record that a node is being depended by another node (maybe of a different profile) | 13:12 |
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| Qiming | the current usage scenario is that a VM node may be hosting one or more containers (nodes) | 13:12 |
| Qiming | without getting those containers deleted, the VM node cannot be deleted | 13:13 |
| Qiming | this will be further extended into other usage scenarios in future | 13:13 |
| yanyanhu | ok | 13:13 |
| yanyanhu | I believe that field will be useful in more scenarios | 13:13 |
| Qiming | for example, a DB node may be treated as depended by a web node, thus it cannot be removed | 13:13 |
| yanyanhu | where dependency relationship exists | 13:14 |
| yanyanhu | yep | 13:14 |
| Qiming | just want to leave a note here that the 'dependency' we are talking about is pretty generic | 13:14 |
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| Qiming | I was trying the ceilometer driver using opentacksdk recently | 13:15 |
| Qiming | hoping that we can leverage that metering service for container scheduling | 13:15 |
| Qiming | we don't have to monitor loads on all VM nodes because ceilometer (maybe also monasca?) has already done so | 13:15 |
| zzxwill | Use ceilometer to meter the burden of each container? | 13:16 |
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| Qiming | we just need to check the statistics from ceilometer, and select the node with the lightest node to run a new container | 13:16 |
| Qiming | not sure if container monitoring is supported by ceilometer | 13:16 |
| zzxwill | Got it. Thanks. | 13:16 |
| yanyanhu | zzxwill, the burden of vm which will be used as the host for container cluster :) | 13:16 |
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| Qiming | still need some time to understand the pros/cons of ceilometer doing load monitoring | 13:17 |
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| Qiming | our best hope is that it can do a good job in this, though I know some drawbacks not yet fixed so far | 13:18 |
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| yanyanhu | one potential issue is the metric data could be inaccurate | 13:18 |
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| Qiming | even if users are not using ceilometer, they are using something else for monitoring, that 'something' should expose an API for query | 13:18 |
| Qiming | so we don't bother to do the monitoring outselves | 13:19 |
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| Qiming | yup, cpu overcommit is not yet handled well as far as I know, memory consumption may not be accurate | 13:19 |
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| Qiming | network bandwidth consumption is another complex area, it is really up to how the network is set up (i.e. how many nics, which one is for business data ...) | 13:20 |
| Qiming | anyway, we can assume that the metering project can solve those problems | 13:21 |
| yanyanhu | sure, that's why we want to rely on them :) | 13:21 |
| Qiming | next thing is receiver support | 13:21 |
| yanyanhu | working on trust building between enduser and zaqar service user | 13:22 |
| Qiming | yes, a soft dependency | 13:22 |
| yanyanhu | basic workflow is ok I think. Just some authentication issues need to figure out | 13:22 |
| yanyanhu | e.g. the roles to specify when building trust | 13:22 |
| Qiming | yep, pls think of a more generic multi-tenancy support scenario | 13:22 |
| yanyanhu | yes | 13:22 |
| yanyanhu | and need more tests here I think | 13:22 |
| Qiming | right, also the authentication thing | 13:22 |
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| yanyanhu | hopefully, basic support can be done before newtone release | 13:23 |
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| Qiming | receivers are not supposed to be reused across projects, right? | 13:23 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, sure | 13:23 |
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| yanyanhu | ideally, each user should create their own message type of receiver(s) | 13:24 |
| yanyanhu | for different purpose | 13:24 |
| Qiming | okay, that is one of the rules we are not supposed to break | 13:24 |
| yanyanhu | yep | 13:24 |
| Qiming | also security perspective | 13:24 |
| yanyanhu | right, that part need more thorough thinking | 13:25 |
| Qiming | how much do I have to know if I want to trigger an operation on a cluster/node I don't own? | 13:25 |
| yanyanhu | to avoid potential security risk | 13:25 |
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| Qiming | yup | 13:25 |
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| yanyanhu | Qiming, that is problem. Actually haven't got a clear idea about it yet | 13:26 |
| Qiming | sometimes a cluster is owned by Alice, but she trusts Bob to trigger some operations on that cluster | 13:26 |
| yanyanhu | need more thinking here after basic workflow is ok | 13:26 |
| Qiming | okay | 13:26 |
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| yanyanhu | good news is zaqar trust support works well till now :) | 13:26 |
| yanyanhu | as expected | 13:26 |
| Qiming | the initial step could be very restrictive, we can gradually relax the constraints when we feel comfortable | 13:26 |
| yanyanhu | so we can rely on it to build our solution | 13:27 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes, that makes sense | 13:27 |
| yanyanhu | starts from most strict one | 13:27 |
| Qiming | if we work in the other direction, we will receive a lot of complaints in near future | 13:27 |
| yanyanhu | yep | 13:27 |
| Qiming | events/notifications, we don't have them yet | 13:28 |
| Qiming | maybe cannot get them implemented this cycle due to short of hands | 13:28 |
| yanyanhu | understand | 13:28 |
| Qiming | #topic planning for RC releases | 13:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "planning for RC releases (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:29 | |
| Qiming | #link https://releases.openstack.org/newton/schedule.html | 13:29 |
| Qiming | Next week would be the RC-1 release | 13:29 |
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| Qiming | RC2 is 2016-09-26, 20 days away | 13:30 |
| Qiming | I'm planning to fix two things before RC2 | 13:30 |
| Qiming | 1. exception handling, regarding the interaction with nova/heat drivers | 13:31 |
| Qiming | 2. expected/desired capacity, when there are failures | 13:31 |
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| Qiming | now I'm working on the former one | 13:31 |
| yanyanhu | ok | 13:31 |
| yanyanhu | these two things are not related to features | 13:31 |
| Qiming | yes, if all these can be completed | 13:32 |
| Qiming | I'll resume the work on versioning support | 13:32 |
| yanyanhu | cool | 13:32 |
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| Qiming | using ovo to control request/response/notification etc | 13:33 |
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| zzxwill | What's ovo? | 13:33 |
| yanyanhu | we may also need a plan for features we want to include to newtone release | 13:33 |
| Qiming | also need to sync up with eldon on summit preparation | 13:33 |
| Qiming | oslo.versionedobjects, zzxwill | 13:33 |
| yanyanhu | since I feel we may not be able to finish all items we planned before for newton cycle | 13:33 |
| zzxwill | Thanks Qiming. | 13:34 |
| yanyanhu | in last summit | 13:34 |
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| Qiming | what's in your mind yanyan, regarding features? | 13:34 |
| Qiming | we are almost there | 13:35 |
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| yanyanhu | hmm, basic HA support, message receiver, basic versioning support, tests(almost done), doc(almost done) | 13:35 |
| yanyanhu | container cluster(partially done) | 13:35 |
| Qiming | versioning is a bigger problem than we thought, --- because we got too ambitious | 13:35 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes, almost there | 13:35 |
| Qiming | container cluster is a POC now | 13:35 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, seems so :) | 13:36 |
| elynn | basic HA support means service HA? yanyanhu | 13:36 |
| yanyanhu | version everything | 13:36 |
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| Qiming | not perfect, need more work on network/storage | 13:36 |
| yanyanhu | hi, elynn, VM HA | 13:36 |
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| Qiming | maybe also a very restrictive message receiver? | 13:37 |
| yanyanhu | service HA is another topic actually, but we have provides some basic supports for it I think :) | 13:37 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes | 13:37 |
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| yanyanhu | hopefully, it will be there | 13:37 |
| Qiming | the whole health monitoring loop is completed and working | 13:37 |
| Qiming | though I believe there are things to improve, as always | 13:37 |
| Qiming | that is the reason we put it as a design summit topic | 13:38 |
| yanyanhu | sure. Further improvement can be done step by step | 13:38 |
| yanyanhu | yea | 13:38 |
| Qiming | btw, we proposed 4 slots | 13:38 |
| yanyanhu | no much, but I think it's sufficient | 13:38 |
| Qiming | all working sessions | 13:38 |
| yanyanhu | hope we all can be there to have some f2f discussion :) | 13:39 |
| Qiming | I'd like to join more sessions from other projects, interact with them | 13:39 |
| yanyanhu | sure | 13:39 |
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| yanyanhu | like, zaqar, taker | 13:39 |
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| yanyanhu | also HA I think | 13:39 |
| yanyanhu | etc. | 13:39 |
| Qiming | magnum, zun, etc | 13:40 |
| yanyanhu | sure | 13:40 |
| Qiming | #topic open discussions | 13:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussions (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:40 | |
| yanyanhu | looking forward to listen to hongbin and eli's topic on zun :) | 13:40 |
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| yanyanhu | oh, BTW, I have removed integration test work item from etherpad | 13:41 |
| yanyanhu | but actually it is broken again after latest patch is merged... | 13:41 |
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| yanyanhu | the reason is zaqarclient was not setup correctly... | 13:41 |
| Qiming | but the integration fix is merged this afternoon, right? | 13:41 |
| yanyanhu | but I doubted that problem should be fixed in zaqar not devstack-gate | 13:42 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes, mysql service is there now | 13:42 |
| yanyanhu | but zaqarclient installing failed | 13:42 |
| Qiming | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/365875/ | 13:42 |
| Qiming | this one ^ | 13:42 |
| Qiming | we have to install zaqarclient? | 13:43 |
| Qiming | aren't we interacting with zaqar thru sdk? | 13:43 |
| yanyanhu | yep. very appreciated for Andreas and yolanda's quick approval | 13:43 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes, but client setting up is part of zaqar devstack setting up | 13:43 |
| Qiming | broken gate is always a high priority | 13:43 |
| Qiming | ... | 13:43 |
| yanyanhu | since we enabled zaqar as plugin, zaqar client will be setup automatically during zaqar installation | 13:44 |
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| yanyanhu | it failed during this progress | 13:44 |
| Qiming | that is not something to be fixed at gate side | 13:44 |
| Qiming | right? | 13:44 |
| yanyanhu | yes, feel so | 13:44 |
| yanyanhu | there could be some tricky things here | 13:44 |
| yanyanhu | will dig it | 13:44 |
| Qiming | I saw zaqar has functional tests | 13:44 |
| Qiming | they may have some tricks on this | 13:44 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, yes. and I also noticed zaqar rally test job failed for a while | 13:45 |
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| yanyanhu | so not sure whether that is caused by the same problem | 13:45 |
| Qiming | okay, pitty | 13:45 |
| yanyanhu | anyway, will investigate it | 13:45 |
| Qiming | okay | 13:45 |
| yanyanhu | after message receiver support is done, will add integration test for it | 13:46 |
| Qiming | okay | 13:46 |
| Qiming | anything else? | 13:46 |
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| yanyanhu | nope from me | 13:46 |
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| Qiming | elynn, zzxwill, ruijie_ ? | 13:47 |
| elynn | no from me | 13:47 |
| zzxwill | me neither. | 13:47 |
| ruijie_ | Actually, I got one | 13:47 |
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| ruijie_ | I jsut registered a BP for supporting cluster-replace-nodes | 13:47 |
| ruijie_ | from the TODO.rst | 13:47 |
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| yanyanhu | great, thanks for working on it :) | 13:47 |
| Qiming | cool | 13:48 |
| ruijie_ | So, I'm going work on it and try to figure it out asap | 13:48 |
| yanyanhu | any question about it, just feel free to ping me or mail me :) | 13:48 |
| Qiming | don't hesitate if you got questions ... | 13:48 |
| ruijie_ | Sure, I will :) | 13:48 |
| Qiming | or, better yet, stay on irc channel | 13:49 |
| Qiming | ask your questions | 13:49 |
| yanyanhu | yep, using irc is better :) | 13:50 |
| Qiming | mail is fine, but sometimes it is personal or private communication, not the community way, ;) | 13:50 |
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| ruijie_ | yea, I will attend IRC whenever I am free :) | 13:50 |
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| Qiming | okay | 13:50 |
| Qiming | thank you all for joining | 13:50 |
| yanyanhu | ruijie_, or you can leave msg if we are not online | 13:50 |
| Qiming | take your 10 minutes back into your sweet dreams | 13:51 |
| Qiming | #endmeeting | 13:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:51 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 6 13:51:12 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:51 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-09-06-13.01.html | 13:51 |
| zzxwill | Thank you. Have a good night. | 13:51 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-09-06-13.01.txt | 13:51 |
| yanyanhu | have good night | 13:51 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-09-06-13.01.log.html | 13:51 |
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| saggi | #topic karbor | 15:00 |
| saggi | #startmeeting karbor | 15:00 |
| chenying_ | hi | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 6 15:00:23 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is saggi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: karbor)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'karbor' | 15:00 |
| saggi | :) | 15:00 |
| saggi | Hi everyone | 15:00 |
| zhonghua | hi | 15:00 |
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| saggi | chenying ping | 15:01 |
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| saggi | Are we waiting on anyone? | 15:01 |
| chenying_ | hi | 15:01 |
| chenying_ | I don't think so. | 15:02 |
| saggi | OK | 15:02 |
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| saggi | There are no items in the agenda. | 15:02 |
| saggi | but I'll start with | 15:02 |
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| saggi | #topic post repository name change celebrations | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "post repository name change celebrations (Meeting topic: karbor)" | 15:02 | |
| saggi | hurray | 15:02 |
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| zhonghua | sorry, I forgot to update the date | 15:02 |
| zhonghua | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Karbor | 15:03 |
| saggi | Ho, I see | 15:03 |
| zhonghua | the last date should be 2016-9-6 | 15:03 |
| chenying_ | Good news. | 15:03 |
| saggi | We are now past the repo name change | 15:03 |
| saggi | everything seems to be working | 15:03 |
| saggi | So I can say we've officially changed | 15:03 |
| saggi | hurray | 15:03 |
| chenying_ | The fullstack tests seem not work. | 15:04 |
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| saggi | I know | 15:04 |
| saggi | I think I saw patches by yuval to try and fix it | 15:04 |
| chenying_ | yuval did lots of work about karbor name change. | 15:04 |
| leon_wang | hi | 15:04 |
| saggi | I know, too bad he isn't here | 15:04 |
| chenying_ | hi leon_wang welcome | 15:04 |
| saggi | We'll just say that chenying did all the work | 15:05 |
| saggi | good job chenying ! | 15:05 |
| saggi | :) | 15:05 |
| chenying_ | Thanks eveyone did lots of work about it. | 15:05 |
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| saggi | yuval: You are just in time | 15:06 |
| chenying_ | hi yuval. | 15:06 |
| yuval | hey, sorry for being late | 15:06 |
| leon_wang | haha | 15:06 |
| yuval | ^^ | 15:06 |
| chenying_ | We just say you did lots of work about karbor name change. good job! :) | 15:07 |
| chenying_ | yuval | 15:07 |
| yuval | thanks :) | 15:07 |
| yuval | still missing requirements patch which should be merged as soon as requirements cores finish review | 15:07 |
| yuval | you can help reviewing it: https://review.openstack.org/353371 | 15:07 |
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| leon_wang | yuval:I have installed the OpenStack on Ubuntu,but the local.conf you gave me didn't work | 15:08 |
| yuval | once this patch is merged, we can merge the requirements change in karbor and karbor-dashboard | 15:08 |
| yuval | leon_wang: replace every 'smaug' with 'karbor', should work now | 15:09 |
| leon_wang | yuval:ok | 15:09 |
| yuval | leon_wang: I managed to install devstack today a couple of times | 15:09 |
| saggi | Hopfully next meeting we'll have everything in working order | 15:09 |
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| yuval | leon_wang: oh, one thing | 15:09 |
| yuval | use these lines: | 15:10 |
| yuval | enable_plugin karbor http://git.openstack.org/openstack/karbor refs/changes/91/365191/2 | 15:10 |
| yuval | enable_plugin karbor-dashboard http://git.openstack.org/openstack/karbor-dashboard refs/changes/30/365330/1 | 15:10 |
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| leon_wang | yuval:thanks a lot | 15:10 |
| yuval | (it takes the karbor and karbor-dashboard with the specific change that should be merged soon) | 15:10 |
| yuval | (instead of master branch) | 15:10 |
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| saggi | #topic Generic database Bank implementation(chenying) | 15:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Generic database Bank implementation(chenying) (Meeting topic: karbor)" | 15:11 | |
| yuval | btw, almost all of the rename job was done by the infra team, and they did a great job | 15:11 |
| chenying_ | I have submitted a spec about database bank plugins. Plz help me to review it . That is the only thing I want to say. | 15:11 |
| yuval | so, I guess thanks should go to them | 15:12 |
| yuval | chenying_: sure | 15:12 |
| yuval | chenying_: one thing. We onced discussed single site protect and restore | 15:13 |
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| yuval | chenying_: and whether resources will be deleted or new resources will be created | 15:13 |
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| yuval | chenying_: remember? | 15:13 |
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| chenying_ | yuval: Oh I forget. | 15:14 |
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| yuval | chenying_: lol :) | 15:14 |
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| yuval | chenying_: we discussed that when I visited you | 15:15 |
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| chenying_ | yuval: Do you mean the resore action flow? | 15:15 |
| yuval | chenying_: yes, single site restore | 15:15 |
| chenying_ | yuval: OK I know. | 15:16 |
| yuval | chenying_: well, this is an issue we need to tackle, and probably mean creating new resources, possibly deleting the old ones | 15:16 |
| chenying_ | yuval: IMO, we can do different work about restore action from the plan parameter. | 15:17 |
| yuval | chenying_: there's more to just choosing the strategy | 15:18 |
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| yuval | chenying_: the issue is, if karbor creates new resources, where will they be created? same project? different project? how will the tenant understand which were the 'old' resources and which are the 'new'? | 15:19 |
| chenying_ | yuval: Ok we need think it over about it. | 15:19 |
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| yuval | chenying_: and if we intend to delete 'old' resources - how can karbor match a 'new' resource to an 'old' resource | 15:19 |
| yuval | chenying_: me, saggi and oshidoshi have some thoughts about it, just wanted to raise that into awareness | 15:20 |
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| * yuval breathes | 15:20 | |
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| zhonghua | yuval: what's the "delete old resources" meaning? | 15:21 |
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| zhonghua | restore target is the exsiting resource? | 15:22 |
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| yuval | zhonghua: consider you have resource A->B->C in a checkpoint, and you restore into a project having A->D->C . One option is to restore into a different project, or create new resources. Another option is to delete and create resources in order to bring the project into the checkpoint 'state' | 15:22 |
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| yuval | (clarification: even when you restore into a new project, new resources are created0 | 15:23 |
| zhonghua | I think the most use case is only one layer dependency. | 15:24 |
| zhonghua | especially only for volume. | 15:24 |
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| yuval | that's it from me | 15:26 |
| zhonghua | :) | 15:26 |
| saggi | Anything else? | 15:26 |
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| saggi | OK than were done here | 15:27 |
| saggi | Thanks everyone | 15:27 |
| saggi | #endmeeting | 15:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:27 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 6 15:27:44 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:27 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-09-06-15.00.html | 15:27 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-09-06-15.00.txt | 15:27 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-09-06-15.00.log.html | 15:27 |
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| leon_wang | so what's next topic? | 15:28 |
| saggi | leon_wang: There was no next topic | 15:29 |
| leon_wang | if not, I have some questions | 15:29 |
| saggi | Do you have something you wanted to talk about | 15:29 |
| saggi | Sure | 15:29 |
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| saggi | leon_wang: go ahead | 15:29 |
| leon_wang | i want to know why I can't find the rejoin file when install devstack | 15:30 |
| leon_wang | sorry, type on the phone so a bit slow | 15:30 |
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| saggi | leon_wang: No problem | 15:30 |
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| saggi | leon_wang: rejoin-stack was removed | 15:31 |
| leon_wang | what should I rejoin the OpenStack horizon when I reboot the machine | 15:32 |
| saggi | leon_wang: If you already ran stack.sh you can just screen -r stack | 15:32 |
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| leon_wang | saggi:that's it? | 15:32 |
| saggi | leon_wang: Should be | 15:34 |
| leon_wang | saggi:Also,I don't know what the "req" "body" "context" means when I read the source code | 15:34 |
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| saggi | In the dashboard? | 15:35 |
| leon_wang | no, the karbor source code | 15:36 |
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| leon_wang | i found a lot of parameters in the python code which I don't know | 15:37 |
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| leon_wang | If I want to create a plan then the API module will run a create(self, req),and I don't know what the req contains | 15:39 |
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| leon_wang | saggi:and when the api module calls the rpc module,then what does the code go? | 15:41 |
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| saggi | leon_wang: Could you send me a link to the specific file\line | 15:42 |
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| leon_wang | saggi:can I send it to you tomorrow? because I can't find it on my phone | 15:43 |
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| saggi | leon_wang: No problem | 15:44 |
| saggi | Find anyone on #openstack-karbor | 15:44 |
| saggi | They all should be able to help you even if I'm not there | 15:44 |
| leon_wang | Ok,thanks a lot,saggi😄 | 15:45 |
| leon_wang | saggi:it's almost 12:00 pm here so I have to go to bed,bye😴 | 15:47 |
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| saggi | leon_wang: Good night | 15:47 |
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| sridhar_ram | #startmeeting tacker | 16:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 6 16:01:57 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sridhar_ram. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tacker' | 16:02 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Roll Call | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:02 | |
| tbh | o/ | 16:02 |
| manikanta_tadi | o/ | 16:02 |
| dkushwaha | o/ | 16:02 |
| vishwanathj | o/ | 16:02 |
| neel | o/ | 16:02 |
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| mike_m | o/ | 16:02 |
| janki | o/ | 16:02 |
| sripriya | o/ | 16:02 |
| tung_doan | o/ | 16:02 |
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| sridhar_ram | howdy all !! | 16:03 |
| KanagarajM | o/ | 16:03 |
| sridhar_ram | #chair sripriya tbh KanagarajM | 16:03 |
| openstack | Current chairs: KanagarajM sridhar_ram sripriya tbh | 16:03 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Announcements | 16:03 |
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| sridhar_ram | We are heading towards Newton RC1 target .. | 16:04 |
| sridhar_ram | #link https://releases.openstack.org/newton/schedule.html | 16:04 |
| diga | Hi | 16:04 |
| sridhar_ram | just two more weeks left to wrap up Newton | 16:04 |
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| sridhar_ram | nothing else to announce from my side | 16:05 |
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| sripriya | sridhar_ram: when exactly is the server freeze, any specific date? | 16:05 |
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| sripriya | sridhar_ram: meant tacker main | 16:05 |
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| sridhar_ram | sripriya: as agreed earlier, that would be Sept 15th | 16:06 |
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| sripriya | sridhar_ram: thanks | 16:06 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Newton Release Status | 16:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Newton Release Status (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:07 | |
| bobh | sridhar_ram: sorry late | 16:07 |
| sridhar_ram | sripriya: again, on the deadline.. the reasoning is, once all server patchsets land by Sept 16th we will have one week of buffer time to take care of any critical bugs | 16:08 |
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| sridhar_ram | bobh: np | 16:08 |
| sridhar_ram | btw, s3wong won't be able to make it to this call today | 16:08 |
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| sridhar_ram | as always, we shd expect few last minute issues / tidy ups to take care | 16:09 |
| sripriya | sridhar_ram: ack | 16:09 |
| sridhar_ram | any question related to the deadline ? | 16:09 |
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| sridhar_ram | now, let's go around the outstanding features.. | 16:10 |
| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: team: can you give an update on alarm monitoring ? | 16:10 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: it is almost done.. Now, just need some minor updates.. if possible, scaling action could be fired in my spec... | 16:10 |
| tung_doan | #link: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/365435/ | 16:10 |
| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: thats great.. i know many community members are pitching in.. | 16:11 |
| dkushwaha | sridhar_ram, tung_doan I am trying to test the patch with respawn, but getting some issue. | 16:11 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: thanks all :) | 16:11 |
| sridhar_ram | dkushwaha: can you elaborate ? | 16:12 |
| tung_doan | dkushwaha: shoot please | 16:12 |
| dkushwaha | sridhar_ram, tung_doan it looks respawn not done, even cpu utilization goes upto limit | 16:12 |
| dkushwaha | sridhar_ram, tung_doan i am looking into that | 16:13 |
| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: one suggestion in this area, is to starting using audit-event logs introduced recently by KanagarajM and vishwanathj | 16:13 |
| tung_doan | other metrics you set the same, dkushwaha? | 16:13 |
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| dkushwaha | tung_doan, yea | 16:14 |
| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: it will serve both as an enhancement and help debugging such situations.. | 16:14 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: recognized it.. thanks sridhar | 16:14 |
| sridhar_ram | KanagarajM: vishwanathj: please guide tung_doan to add that capability | 16:14 |
| vishwanathj | sure | 16:15 |
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| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: given you are going for an all-in-one patchset .. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/365435/ | 16:15 |
| tung_doan | dkushwaha: i thivk the problem from ceilometer side | 16:15 |
| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: .. you also need to include unit and func tests as well | 16:16 |
| tung_doan | dkushwaha: please try with curl -X POST first to know what happens | 16:16 |
| dkushwaha | tung_doan, ok, i will try try with same also | 16:17 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: understand.. thanks | 16:17 |
| sridhar_ram | tung_doan: great.. i see this feature is coming together, it is going to cut close.. but i'm hopeful this will make it.. | 16:17 |
| janki | sridhar_ram, tung_doan: also shouldn't there be a single abstract_drvier file for all monitor drivers? | 16:17 |
| sridhar_ram | tacker-cores: can couple of you sign up to review this ? | 16:18 |
| tung_doan | janki: we think we already discussed that we should have an abstract driver for them.. could oyu elaborate it? | 16:18 |
| sridhar_ram | bobh: given your previous monitoring creds, would you be able give this a scan ? | 16:18 |
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| bobh | sridhar_ram: I can take a look | 16:19 |
| sridhar_ram | bobh: thanks! | 16:19 |
| janki | tung_doan, contents of this https://review.openstack.org/#/c/365435/6/tacker/vnfm/monitor_drivers/alarm_abstract_driver.py should be merged with https://github.com/openstack/tacker/blob/master/tacker/vnfm/monitor_drivers/abstract_driver.py | 16:19 |
| tung_doan | janki: it is the same with ping, httpping | 16:19 |
| janki | tung_doan, yes, I have noticed that. Are all these intentinally kept separate or they will be merged in future/ | 16:20 |
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| janki | sridhar_ram, your view on this ^^ | 16:20 |
| * sridhar_ram is looking up | 16:20 | |
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| sridhar_ram | janki: my initial thought is it should be merged.. | 16:21 |
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| janki | sridhar_ram, +1, for all infra, mgmt and other drivers | 16:22 |
| tung_doan | janki: i think we should sepaparat.. in the future, maybe we had a lot of function for drivers | 16:22 |
| sridhar_ram | janki: .. only thing we need to be careful is collateral damage to existing non-alarm monitoring like ping, http-ping, custom monitor drivers | 16:23 |
| tung_doan | janki: *sepaparat --> separate | 16:23 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: that's correct | 16:23 |
| sridhar_ram | let's take this specific item to the gerrit.. | 16:23 |
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| sridhar_ram | janki: good catch, btw!! | 16:24 |
| tung_doan | sridhar_ram: I realize that when implementing... | 16:24 |
| janki | sridhar_ram, thanks :) | 16:24 |
| sridhar_ram | anything else of concern on alarm-mon ? | 16:24 |
| sridhar_ram | I'm super glad to see this community coming together as a team to help on this feature! you folks are awesome! | 16:25 |
| sridhar_ram | moving onto VNFC | 16:25 |
| tung_doan | ok.. thank all guys for looking :) please continue reviewing it | 16:25 |
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| sridhar_ram | #link https://review.openstack.org/339798 | 16:25 |
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| sridhar_ram | Given where we are in the release window.. i propose we move this feature to Ocata | 16:26 |
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| sridhar_ram | This is a critical feature and there are still many review comments to be captured, agreed up and .. then to be implemented | 16:27 |
| sridhar_ram | we just don't have enough runway to land this | 16:27 |
| sridhar_ram | Let's make this (and NSD) as one of the initial features in Ocata | 16:27 |
| sridhar_ram | Thoughts ? | 16:28 |
| sridhar_ram | tbh: what do you think ? | 16:29 |
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| tbh | sridhar_ram, Yup, agree, instead of comprimising on features it provide, let's have a detailed discussion and implement completely in Ocata | 16:30 |
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| sripriya | sridhar_ram: given that we are stilll implementing/reviewing existing rfes/bugs, good to move them to next cycle but we can continue to implement/review the features and patches | 16:30 |
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| sridhar_ram | tbh: sripriya: thanks.. and i agree | 16:30 |
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| manikanta_tadi | sridhar_ram: tbh : I do agree with you | 16:31 |
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| sridhar_ram | tbh: again, just so that we don't loose focus, we can continue the current scope penciled in .. to use Heat SD as the initial VNFC mechanism.. | 16:32 |
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| sridhar_ram | I'll move the bp to Ocata | 16:32 |
| sridhar_ram | moving on.. | 16:32 |
| sridhar_ram | VNFFG | 16:32 |
| sridhar_ram | trozet: s3wong: provided offline status.. | 16:33 |
| sridhar_ram | most pieces should come together by end of this week.. | 16:33 |
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| sridhar_ram | diga: did you had chance to try the patchsets in your testbed ? | 16:33 |
| sridhar_ram | anyone else tried vnffg ? | 16:34 |
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| diga | sridhar_ram: I am contineously pinging to trozet about it but never got reply from his side | 16:34 |
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| sridhar_ram | diga: I think he was busy w/ OPNFV commitments last few days.. he shd be available this week | 16:35 |
| diga | my setup is ready but need to discuss with him for testing | 16:35 |
| sridhar_ram | diga: did anything fail explicitly in your trials ? | 16:35 |
| sridhar_ram | diga: fair enough, you probably need an initial cheat sheet of CLIs to fire at this feature ? | 16:35 |
| diga | sridhar_ram: yes | 16:36 |
| sridhar_ram | diga: alright.. will ping trozet for this | 16:36 |
| diga | I am waiting for trozet to provide me details so that I can understand the feature & test it appropriately | 16:36 |
| sridhar_ram | i know gongysh was also planning to try this feature out.. more eyes are better :) | 16:37 |
| diga | hmm | 16:37 |
| sridhar_ram | diga: sounds good.. | 16:37 |
| janki | sridhar_ram, diga I believe it should start with creating a vnffgd and then a vnffg based on it | 16:37 |
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| diga | okay | 16:37 |
| trozet | hi diga | 16:37 |
| diga | trozet: Hi | 16:38 |
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| diga | trozet: lets discuss on this feature after the meeting | 16:38 |
| trozet | diga: kk | 16:38 |
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| sridhar_ram | diga: trozet: thanks! | 16:39 |
| sridhar_ram | moving on.. | 16:39 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Newton Priority Issues | 16:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Newton Priority Issues (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:39 | |
| diga | sridhar_ram: wc! | 16:39 |
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| sridhar_ram | beyond major features.. please flag any issues that needs to be fixed for newton | 16:40 |
| sridhar_ram | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/tacker-newton-release-priority | 16:40 |
| sridhar_ram | ^^^ etherpad is still valid.. | 16:40 |
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| sridhar_ram | before picking any Ocata features, please help out on this for next two weeks... | 16:41 |
| sridhar_ram | I also realized we need reviewers for tacker-horizon | 16:42 |
| sridhar_ram | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/tacker-horizon+status:open | 16:42 |
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| sridhar_ram | please review them as well | 16:42 |
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| sridhar_ram | Specifically https://review.openstack.org/349755 and https://review.openstack.org/347779 | 16:43 |
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| sridhar_ram | moving on | 16:43 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Ocata Grooming | 16:43 |
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| sridhar_ram | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/tacker-ocata-grooming | 16:43 |
| sridhar_ram | Heads up on Ocata duration.. | 16:44 |
| diga | sridhar_ram: when we can start the dev for ocata ? | 16:44 |
| sridhar_ram | Ocata is going to be shorter dev cycle than Newton.. it is not the usual 6months window | 16:45 |
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| sridhar_ram | The guidance from TC is to plan our work to be less than we used to | 16:45 |
| diga | okay | 16:45 |
| sridhar_ram | diga: we can start by 3rd week of Sept.. | 16:45 |
| diga | okay | 16:46 |
| sridhar_ram | diga: in fact we can start to review / merge patchsets immediately after stable/newton branch is pulled | 16:46 |
| diga | sridhar_ram: okay | 16:46 |
| sridhar_ram | Let's continue to start writing blueprints and informally gather ideas in the etherpad above .. so that have enough discussion ahead of the design summit | 16:47 |
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| sridhar_ram | It will be great to use the design summit to make "final" implementation decisions and go into low-level design | 16:47 |
| diga | I will push my spec by tomorrow, due to Ganesh Festival I couldn't do that, but its ready now | 16:47 |
| sridhar_ram | diga: is that for API framework ? | 16:48 |
| diga | yes | 16:48 |
| sridhar_ram | diga: sounds good.. | 16:48 |
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| diga | sridhar_ram: :) | 16:48 |
| mike_m | hi, with regard to the EM module, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tacker/+spec/em-module, I'm not sure if caoyue is writing that? | 16:49 |
| diga | sridhar_ram: how many talks are selected from tacker project to summit | 16:49 |
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| sridhar_ram | diga: btw, for api framework, other projects have use a separate branch to develop the feature and then merge back to the master.. this is something we should consider doing to avoid affecting other features in flight | 16:49 |
| diga | sridhar_ram: yep +1 | 16:50 |
| sridhar_ram | mike_m: i haven't seen a detailed tacker-specs write up beyond that BP request | 16:50 |
| mike_m | Just wondering where we go with that, that is something I can help with, but not sure if someone else is picking that up. | 16:50 |
| sridhar_ram | mike_m: let's check with caoyue and go from there.. | 16:51 |
| mike_m | ok. | 16:52 |
| sridhar_ram | mike_m: can you briefly describe your "need" here ? | 16:52 |
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| sridhar_ram | mike_m: that BP write-up is bit too broad IMO and it needs to be narrowed down | 16:52 |
| mike_m | sure. I'd like to see a EM interface on the VNFM so that a EM could interact with the VNFM. | 16:53 |
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| mike_m | looking at the ETSI specifically, things like life cycle management for specific VNF's, configuration, notification of VNF/VFNS as they become instantiated, etc. | 16:53 |
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| sridhar_ram | mike_m: okay .. we can put this as an agenda for our upcoming meeting and drill down a bit | 16:55 |
| mike_m | ok thanks! | 16:55 |
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| sridhar_ram | moving on.. | 16:55 |
| sridhar_ram | #topic Open Discussion | 16:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: tacker)" | 16:55 | |
| sridhar_ram | diga: officially, there is a VNF FFG talk that got accepted for the summit | 16:56 |
| diga | sridhar_ram: Gr8! | 16:56 |
| sridhar_ram | I believe there are few other talks like the one on OPNFV Domino that is going to touch on Tacker | 16:56 |
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| sridhar_ram | Folks - anything else ? | 16:56 |
| diga | okay | 16:57 |
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| sridhar_ram | alright .. that's a wrap! | 16:57 |
| sridhar_ram | thanks everyone! | 16:57 |
| janki | sridhar_ram, there is a bug to move to keystone3 in functional tests. Cann't find its url right now | 16:57 |
| janki | sridhar_ram, that needs to go in newton too IMO | 16:57 |
| sridhar_ram | janki: sure, let's flag that into our etherpad.. | 16:58 |
| janki | sridhar_ram, will do, thanks | 16:58 |
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| sridhar_ram | we can catchup in #tacker as needed | 16:58 |
| sridhar_ram | bye folks | 16:58 |
| sridhar_ram | #endmeeting | 16:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 6 16:58:51 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-09-06-16.01.html | 16:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-09-06-16.01.txt | 16:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-09-06-16.01.log.html | 16:58 |
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| mmedvede | #startmeeting third-party | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 6 17:00:09 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mmedvede. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 17:00 |
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| mmedvede | #link meeting agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ThirdParty | 17:00 |
| mmedvede | anyone around for third-party wg meeting? | 17:01 |
| ja3 | I yam | 17:01 |
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| mmedvede | hi ja3 | 17:01 |
| mmedvede | I have one item on agenda | 17:02 |
| mmedvede | #topic Jenkins Security-170 | 17:02 |
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| mmedvede | it was brought up that people deploying puppet-openstackci still have non-functioning CI due to the security fix in new Jenkins | 17:03 |
| mmedvede | and it looks like the version pinning does not work for jenkins as proposed in | 17:04 |
| mmedvede | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/354086 | 17:05 |
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| ja3 | quoting jar jar: how wooed | 17:05 |
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| mmedvede | so maybe we should concentrate on getting jenkins config more flexible, as proposed in | 17:06 |
| mmedvede | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/262787/ | 17:06 |
| mmedvede | asselin: are you around? | 17:06 |
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| mmedvede | I'll update the patch, seems like there was no activity on it recently | 17:08 |
| mmedvede | #action mmedvede to update https://review.openstack.org/#/c/262787/ | 17:08 |
| mmedvede | ja3: did you have any troubles with jenkins? | 17:09 |
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| ja3 | I have not heard of any. I'm not sure that we're caught up to infra yet in terms of how we configure that piece. We might still be horsing around pre-refactoring in some areas. | 17:09 |
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| ja3 | ...but I also have been routing anythingn from here, and the -dev email I saw with [third party ci] today, same subject, to bob. | 17:10 |
| ja3 | It appears that The Bob is still OTL | 17:10 |
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| mmedvede | ja3: if you have Jenkins <= 1.651.1, you are fine. For newer version you'll need to have some workaround to allow it to set environment variables from zuul | 17:11 |
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| ja3 | ok | 17:12 |
| ja3 | always nice to know where damacles is lurking | 17:12 |
| mmedvede | :) | 17:12 |
| mmedvede | #topic Open Discussion | 17:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:13 | |
| mmedvede | I might be unable to chair the next two meetings | 17:14 |
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| mmedvede | so with low attendance, I wonder if we should cancel them | 17:14 |
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| ja3 | not sure - depends what ramy is up to. | 17:15 |
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| ja3 | if it's just the two of us, canceling (or not) won't hurt. | 17:16 |
| ja3 | if ramy has some new 3pci iron in the fire, potentially a different story. | 17:16 |
| mmedvede | +1, I'll catch him later | 17:16 |
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| mmedvede | ja3: do you want to discuss anything else? | 17:17 |
| ja3 | nope; Bob back, says we're not auto-updating | 17:17 |
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| mmedvede | it is wise | 17:18 |
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| mmedvede | thanks for attending | 17:18 |
| ja3 | prod is 1.642.1, dev is 1.651.2 | 17:18 |
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| mmedvede | dev is not broken? | 17:19 |
| ja3 | he says not. I call that "intewesting" | 17:20 |
| mmedvede | ja3: ^ | 17:20 |
| mmedvede | sorry | 17:20 |
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| mmedvede | ja3: ok, I got 1.651.1 from https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Plugins+affected+by+fix+for+SECURITY-170 | 17:21 |
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| mmedvede | maybe 1.651.2 is not completely broken | 17:21 |
| ja3 | that fits the observed behavior | 17:21 |
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| mmedvede | #endmeeting | 17:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:25 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 6 17:25:11 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:25 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-09-06-17.00.html | 17:25 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-09-06-17.00.txt | 17:25 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-09-06-17.00.log.html | 17:25 |
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| stevemar | ping ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, crinkle, claudiub, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, gagehugo, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, jaugustine, joesavak, jorge_munoz, knikolla, lbragstad, MaxPC, morgan, nkinder, notmorgan, raildo, rodrigods, rderose, roxanaghe, samleon, samueldmq, shaleh, stevemar, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong, xek, nishaYadav | 17:58 |
| rderose | o/ | 17:59 |
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| knikolla | o/ | 17:59 |
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| gagehugo | o/ | 17:59 |
| lbragstad | o/ | 17:59 |
| amakarov | hi | 17:59 |
| raildo | _o_ | 17:59 |
| lamt | o/ | 17:59 |
| breton | hello | 17:59 |
| roxanaghe | hi | 17:59 |
| gyee | \o | 17:59 |
| stevemar | #startmeeting keystone | 17:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 6 17:59:51 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is stevemar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 17:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 17:59 |
| samueldmq | hi all | 17:59 |
| jaugustine | o/ | 18:00 |
| dolphm | o/ | 18:00 |
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| NishaYadav | o/ | 18:00 |
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| shaleh | \o | 18:00 |
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| gagehugo | hey | 18:00 |
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| stevemar | #agenda: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting | 18:01 |
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| stevemar | o/ | 18:01 |
| browne | o/ | 18:01 |
| bknudson | hi | 18:01 |
| ayoung | Holla | 18:01 |
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| henrynash | hi | 18:01 |
| stevemar | ayoung: i moved your thing to the end of the agenda OK | 18:01 |
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| ayoung | stevemar, not really, no. | 18:01 |
| topol | o/ | 18:02 |
| stevemar | ayoung: we will get there by 2:05 :) | 18:02 |
| ayoung | We break the other projects, it is kindof like the worst thing to do | 18:02 |
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| stevemar | just push the pause button for 5 minutes | 18:02 |
| stevemar | #topic Announcements | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:03 | |
| stevemar | rderose is now core :) | 18:03 |
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| raildo | rderose, congrats :) | 18:03 |
| henrynash | yeah! | 18:03 |
| lbragstad | ++ | 18:03 |
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| knikolla | congrats! | 18:03 |
| stevemar | thanks rderose for your hard work | 18:03 |
| bknudson | nice | 18:03 |
| rderose | yeah! thanks guys :) | 18:03 |
| gagehugo | congrats! | 18:03 |
| gyee | rderose, u da man! | 18:03 |
| rderose | gyee: :) | 18:03 |
| henrynash | another rabbit bites the dust? | 18:03 |
| henrynash | just kiddin | 18:03 |
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| rderose | hahaha | 18:03 |
| stevemar | there are many other great contributors helping make keystone awesome, you're all great in my eyes | 18:03 |
| henrynash | stevemar:++ | 18:04 |
| ayoung | We just lost another productive community member to the burden of code reviews. | 18:04 |
| stevemar | rderose: thanks for all your coding and reviewing | 18:04 |
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| rderose | stevemar: thanks man, really appreciate all of your support | 18:04 |
| dolphm | ayoung: ++ | 18:04 |
| gyee | ayoung, then try to write less code damn it! | 18:04 |
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| stevemar | #topic Release status | 18:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Release status (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:05 | |
| stevemar | we're in the RC period, so only critical bug fixes should be merging now | 18:05 |
| stevemar | docs and tests are always OK to merge | 18:05 |
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| stevemar | please go and play with the latest master level and find bugs :) | 18:06 |
| stevemar | especially in the PCI support :D | 18:06 |
| ayoung | https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1619758 should be on that list | 18:06 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1619758 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "Credential Encryption breaks deployments without Fernet" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Adam Young (ayoung) | 18:06 |
| dolphm | and rolling upgrades :) | 18:06 |
| stevemar | dolphm: yes that too! | 18:06 |
| stevemar | dolphm: have prometheanfire test it for postgres :S | 18:06 |
| ayoung | where is the bug list? | 18:07 |
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| stevemar | ayoung: the only one targeted for rc1 is yours | 18:07 |
| stevemar | RC bugs will be tracked here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/newton-rc1 | 18:07 |
| dolphm | #link https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/newton-rc1 | 18:07 |
| ayoung | dolphm, thanks | 18:08 |
| stevemar | i encourage everyone to go and triage some of the open keystone bugs | 18:08 |
| stevemar | make sure we are not missing any | 18:08 |
| stevemar | that should go into newton | 18:08 |
| stevemar | alright, done all the organization stuff | 18:08 |
| stevemar | #topic credential encryption breaking the world | 18:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "credential encryption breaking the world (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:09 | |
| stevemar | some background on this | 18:09 |
| stevemar | actually, someone else want to take this one? dolphm? it's a lot of typing | 18:09 |
| stevemar | :P | 18:09 |
| dolphm | ayoung: ? | 18:09 |
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| stevemar | we broke tripleo | 18:09 |
| bknudson | did grenade break or did a change have to be made to devstack? | 18:09 |
| lbragstad | a change was made to both devstack and grenade | 18:10 |
| dolphm | we broke everyone that is not following our upgrade release notes and attempting to upgrade anyway | 18:10 |
| stevemar | bknudson: we upgraded grenade https://github.com/openstack-dev/grenade/blob/master/projects/10_keystone/from-mitaka/upgrade-keystone | 18:10 |
| ayoung | yeah, firedrill | 18:10 |
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| lbragstad | it fails because if there are credentials in the backend when the migration is run - it will attempt to encrypt them | 18:10 |
| ayoung | So...distribution of keys is hard | 18:10 |
| bknudson | do you need to do this even if you don't have any credentials? | 18:10 |
| lbragstad | bknudson no | 18:10 |
| stevemar | in an attempt to make keystone more secure, by encrypting credentials, we are *forcing* an extra upgrade step for mitaka -> newton, you must run `keystone-manage --credential_setup` | 18:10 |
| henrynash | dolphm: so an offline migration fails? | 18:11 |
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| lbragstad | bknudson it's conditional if you have credentials | 18:11 |
| ayoung | doing it right is pretty much beyond the scope of what Tripleo should be trying to do between now and release | 18:11 |
| lbragstad | bknudson https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/b47f10290ed83415149f3d2ab6b0dc64646e578a/keystone/common/sql/data_migration_repo/versions/003_migrate_unencrypted_credentials.py#L26 | 18:11 |
| * stevemar waves at EmilienM | 18:11 | |
| dolphm | lbragstad: the error in bug 1619758 is not super helpful, btw | 18:11 |
| openstack | bug 1619758 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "Credential Encryption breaks deployments without Fernet" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1619758 - Assigned to Adam Young (ayoung) | 18:11 |
| dolphm | should fix that with a better message | 18:11 |
| EmilienM | o/ | 18:11 |
| ayoung | To use the Credentials backend now requires a setup of the keys to encrypt the credentials | 18:11 |
| stevemar | ayoung: yes, as it should have been from day 1 | 18:12 |
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| lbragstad | dolphm sure - we can catch that and report something more useful | 18:12 |
| ayoung | and, this key needs to be in sync across all keystone servers that talk to the same database | 18:12 |
| lbragstad | dolphm bug report? | 18:12 |
| dolphm | stevemar: ++ we should never have been storing secrets in plaintext anywhere, but since we're already in that business, we need to correct our behavior ASAP | 18:12 |
| dolphm | lbragstad: https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1619758 | 18:12 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1619758 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "Credential Encryption breaks deployments without Fernet" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Adam Young (ayoung) | 18:12 |
| stevemar | lbragstad: https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1619758 | 18:12 |
| ayoung | dolphm, that is what happens when you record bugs after close of business on a Friday evening | 18:12 |
| lbragstad | dolphm want me to just tack the fix on to that? | 18:13 |
| stevemar | dolphm: what are the OSA guys doing? | 18:13 |
| dolphm | ayoung: i'm referring to needing to encrypt things, and not let deployers continue to store secrets in plain text using keystone | 18:13 |
| stevemar | lbragstad: you can make the error message improved related to the bug, not close it though | 18:13 |
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| dolphm | stevemar: running credential_setup ? | 18:13 |
| ayoung | EmilienM, check me on this, the breakage was due to Tempest run, rigjht? | 18:13 |
| lbragstad | stevemar yep | 18:13 |
| lbragstad | stevemar I can do that | 18:13 |
| lbragstad | stevemar i'll leave a comment | 18:13 |
| stevemar | lbragstad: thx | 18:13 |
| lbragstad | stevemar andymccr is working on it for OSA | 18:14 |
| lbragstad | i already had a conversation with him about it this morning | 18:14 |
| EmilienM | ayoung: tempest could not validate keystone without credentials | 18:14 |
| dolphm | stevemar: OSA is not broken because they're not attempting to upgrade to master or newton-rc1 yet | 18:14 |
| stevemar | ayoung: yes, so we had to decide... if someone is not encrypting their credentials, do we break them on upgrade, or when they are using the API | 18:14 |
| dolphm | stevemar: at least, not in their gate or anything | 18:14 |
| ayoung | stevemar, the answer is "Neither" | 18:14 |
| ayoung | but... | 18:14 |
| lbragstad | dolphm andymccr was hitting some issues on some tests he is working on locally | 18:15 |
| ayoung | So, lets get out of the way the real sin is in storing and retrieving credentials, and encrypting them is a bandaid (albeit necessarY) on a sucking chest wound. | 18:15 |
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| ayoung | Yes, unencrypted is worse | 18:15 |
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| ayoung | so, we should have no-opped this from the beginning, and given people at least one dev cycle to catch up | 18:16 |
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| dolphm | ayoung's patch provides a no-op credential provider, that basically doesn't require any configuration, and he's proposing it as the default. that would let operators switch to the fernet-based credential encryption provider later, but its probably broken by rolling upgrades now (?) | 18:16 |
| ayoung | the dropped the no-op | 18:16 |
| ayoung | now...I would be happy with having no-op as an option, but not the default option, as that would only require a single config change | 18:17 |
| ayoung | we can live with that if necessary | 18:17 |
| bknudson | can we add a warning to say to switch it? | 18:17 |
| ayoung | but, that is just me being selfish | 18:17 |
| dolphm | bknudson: i'd suggest marking the no-op as deprecated immediately to do exactly that | 18:17 |
| lbragstad | the no-op thing will only work if there aren't any credentials stored in the backend | 18:17 |
| ayoung | dolphm, that makes sense | 18:17 |
| lbragstad | when the upgrade takes place | 18:17 |
| samueldmq | dolphm: ++ | 18:18 |
| bknudson | I like the deprecated no-op as a solution. | 18:18 |
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| stevemar | bknudson: but will the noop driver work? | 18:18 |
| ayoung | passes unit tests | 18:18 |
| stevemar | i think lbragstad has doubts | 18:18 |
| bknudson | nobody knows if anything works. | 18:18 |
| ayoung | apevev said it failed due to a different problem | 18:18 |
| dolphm | ayoung: the rolling upgrade process migrates plaintext data in the database to be encrypted -- that's not something operators can postpone | 18:18 |
| ayoung | something about entrypoints | 18:18 |
| lbragstad | it won't work if someone has credentials stored in plaintext and they upgrade | 18:18 |
| dolphm | lbragstad: ++ | 18:19 |
| stevemar | right, the upgrade will fail | 18:19 |
| lbragstad | if they do that and then switch to the noop provider they will be return cipher text to the end user | 18:19 |
| ayoung | lbragstad, won't that migration fail if there is no key? | 18:19 |
| dolphm | ayoung: yes, you can't upgrade without running credential_setup first | 18:19 |
| bknudson | are there grenade tests with credentials? | 18:20 |
| dolphm | "In order to upgrade successfully to Newton, deployers must encrypt all credentials currently stored before contracting the database. Deployers must run keystone-manage credential_setup in order to use the credential API within Newton, or finish the upgrade from Mitaka to Newton. This will result in a service outage for the credential API where credentials will be read-only for the duration of the upgrade process. Once | 18:20 |
| dolphm | the database is contracted credentials will be writeable again. Database contraction phases only apply to rolling upgrades." http://docs.openstack.org/releasenotes/keystone/unreleased.html#upgrade-notes | 18:20 |
| ayoung | so noop really is not going to help, then, is it | 18:20 |
| lbragstad | bknudson now - but after the upgrade grenade will exercise the credential api | 18:20 |
| lbragstad | bknudson no* | 18:20 |
| dolphm | ayoung: i was hoping it would, but lbragstad is right -- it's only useful if you don't have any credentials anyway | 18:21 |
| lbragstad | bknudson the credential api was failing to do stuff because it didn't have any keys to encrypt with | 18:21 |
| ayoung | dolphm, so I don't think there are any easy answers here. | 18:22 |
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| stevemar | ayoung: are tripleo users upgrading? | 18:22 |
| dolphm | ayoung: i'm afraid to ask, but what's the complexity blocking tripleo from dropping fernet keys on disk prior to upgrading? | 18:22 |
| ayoung | stevemar, they will, so we need to cover that, too | 18:22 |
| ayoung | dolphm, good question, here it goes: | 18:23 |
| dolphm | ayoung: there's no reason to *require* credential_setup or any syncing if you can distribute them any other way | 18:23 |
| dolphm | them = fernet keys | 18:23 |
| ayoung | Tripleo does not have an easy way of distributing the credentials in a way that is not world readable | 18:23 |
| stevemar | dolphm: i think EmilienM is looking into that https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1619758/comments/3 | 18:23 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1619758 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "Credential Encryption breaks deployments without Fernet" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Adam Young (ayoung) | 18:23 |
| ayoung | if it were just a single entry, then hiera can hide it from the world | 18:23 |
| dolphm | ayoung: how are service user passwords and things distributed? or database passwords? | 18:23 |
| ayoung | but the fact that it is a directory can only, at the moment, make use of a crude mechanism | 18:24 |
| EmilienM | yes I'm currently working on tripleoclient to generate the keys for managing keystone credentials | 18:24 |
| EmilienM | so we can use puppet to put the files on keystone servers | 18:24 |
| ayoung | IN general, Tripleo is Heat generating Hiera which is used to configure puppet | 18:24 |
| stevemar | dolphm: the complexity is unknown :( | 18:24 |
| ayoung | so if the puppet modules can't do soemthing, we have limited tools available | 18:24 |
| ayoung | which means poor EmilienM is responsible for making everythign work | 18:24 |
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| antipsychiatry | Destroy " Israel" !!!!!!! They are antichrist !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They are synagogue of Satan!!!!!!!!!! | 18:25 |
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| ayoung | the keystone tooling assumes it is executed on the keystone node, but we need to generate the keys on the undercloud and then deploy them in sync to all the other nodes. | 18:25 |
| ayoung | hence my Proof of concept using the undercloud's keystone to generate the Repo for the overcloud. | 18:26 |
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| stevemar | thanks infra <3 | 18:26 |
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| fungi | (any time) | 18:27 |
| dolphm | ayoung: you should be able to generate them on either cloud, or outside the cloud, doesn't matter. it's a single line of python to generate a key | 18:27 |
| lbragstad | ayoung if you do use the keystone tooling, is there a way to sync them after they are generated? | 18:27 |
| lbragstad | like how osa does it with fernet keys? | 18:27 |
| ayoung | So, changes to fix tripleo usually require 1) Puppet changes and 2)triple-heat-template changes. In this case, I think a third change to generate the Keys might also be required | 18:27 |
| dolphm | i'm pretty sure mfisch has public puppet code out there to illustrate fernet key configuration and distribution without using keystone-manage at all | 18:27 |
| lbragstad | #link https://github.com/pyca/cryptography/blob/master/src/cryptography/fernet.py#L46 | 18:28 |
| ayoung | lbragstad, not a good way. | 18:28 |
| dolphm | lbragstad: don't even need to install cryptography! | 18:28 |
| ayoung | Possibly sufficient to get through gate, but not one I would support live | 18:28 |
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| lbragstad | nope just need standard lib stuff | 18:28 |
| ayoung | yeah, that is the easy part | 18:28 |
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| lbragstad | i believe EmilienM was working on something using that | 18:28 |
| lbragstad | generating the keys and storing them in puppet somewhere? | 18:29 |
| stevemar | while EmilienM hacks on his PoC, are there any other avenues we should look at ? | 18:29 |
| stevemar | revert the credential encryption? :) | 18:29 |
| ayoung | its not an impossible task, just one we should not expect the installers to deal with post Milestone 3 | 18:30 |
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| stevemar | i agree the timing is terrible, which is why i put the revert on the table | 18:30 |
| ayoung | stevemar, so, I'd be OK with a No op solution | 18:30 |
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| stevemar | what about a noop and a fernet, but another command to actually do the encrypting of all credentials? | 18:31 |
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| ayoung | lbragstad, what if we skip the encryption until the no-op provider is disabled, and do it as an offline operation | 18:31 |
| dolphm | stevemar: the problem there is that a database migration is required | 18:31 |
| ayoung | stevemar, that | 18:31 |
| dolphm | stevemar: and we can't do database migrations outside of the upgrade process | 18:31 |
| dolphm | it's not a standalone, at-will operation like credential rotation is | 18:32 |
| dolphm | or fernet key rotation | 18:32 |
| lbragstad | right | 18:32 |
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| bknudson | how about don't encrypt/decrypt if there are no keys? | 18:32 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, so, if the no-op provider is enabled, skip the encryption. If the no-op provider is enabled, and encryption has not happened, report an error | 18:32 |
| stevemar | bknudson: oh, like at all? | 18:32 |
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| stevemar | lbragstad: dolphm is that possible? | 18:33 |
| ayoung | do we drop the old column? | 18:33 |
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| bknudson | right, currently it's an error if there are no keys, so the proposal would be to allow no keys to work (don't decrypt/encrypt) | 18:33 |
| lbragstad | ayoung yes | 18:33 |
| dolphm | bknudson: that'd require either rewriting our migration history or introducing a new migration after the one that ayoung is struggling with to re-introduce a plaintext column or something | 18:33 |
| dolphm | ayoung: yes | 18:33 |
| ayoung | ok...what if we put the keys in the database or have a default key that gets removed later? | 18:33 |
| ayoung | encrypt, but poorly | 18:34 |
| dolphm | keys in the database defeats everything | 18:34 |
| ayoung | agreed | 18:34 |
| ayoung | and a default key in the config file does, too | 18:34 |
| dolphm | ayoung: hardcode your upgrade to use a null key | 18:34 |
| dolphm | ayoung: then credential rotate later | 18:34 |
| dolphm | #solved | 18:34 |
| Anticimex | (as a deployer, hashicorp vault seems better than puppet / puppet-db for distributing secrets - or similar) | 18:34 |
| ayoung | but...adding a key to the config file that we generate is probably easier than managing the repo... | 18:34 |
| breton | the situation with requiring keys is also bad because the keys will be in the backend in the next cycle (i hope) | 18:35 |
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| ayoung | Anticimex, we are not even using the puppet mechanism here | 18:35 |
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| EmilienM | this is the link of my PoC https://review.openstack.org/366287 (it's only a start and unit tests will fail but save the URL) | 18:35 |
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| * lbragstad starred | 18:36 | |
| dolphm | ayoung: EmilienM: seriously, hardcode tripleo to drop two credentials keys on disk that are just a bunch of nulls 'AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA=' | 18:36 |
| EmilienM | I also need to patch puppet-keystone and tripleo but I'll do it after my terrible dentist apt :( | 18:37 |
| dolphm | ayoung: EmilienM: finish the upgrade, and then at your leisure when running newton, you can rotate new keys in with credential_setup | 18:37 |
| ayoung | dolphm, that is essentially what EmilienM is saying, only actually generating a key instead. Its the file managment that is the fireddrill here | 18:37 |
| dolphm | or in a future release when you solve the syncing problem | 18:37 |
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| ayoung | but if Tripleo has to do it, everyone will have to, and keystone will have broken the world | 18:37 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: i assume the complexity in the file management is in coordinating the contents of the files? | 18:37 |
| bknudson | it would be great if tripleo was reporting CI failures | 18:38 |
| dolphm | not in writing a file with a known value | 18:38 |
| lbragstad | i imagine osa is going to use the same mechanism that it uses for fernet rotation | 18:38 |
| ayoung | dolphm, probably more important is to identify the existence of certain files and get them to the servers. | 18:38 |
| ayoung | the contents are always in sync across all nodes | 18:38 |
| dolphm | ayoung: /etc/keystone/credentials-keys/0 should always contain AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA= | 18:38 |
| dolphm | ayoung: /etc/keystone/credentials-keys/1 should always contain AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA= | 18:39 |
| bknudson | how do you re-encrypt the credentials with the new keys? | 18:39 |
| dolphm | bknudson: keystone-manage credential_rotate does the db work to do that | 18:39 |
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| breton | the requirement to have the keys before keystone starts bugs me | 18:39 |
| dolphm | bknudson: or keystone-manage credential_migrate? (help, lbragstad) | 18:40 |
| breton | i already tried to address it in https://review.openstack.org/362785 with low-priority | 18:40 |
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| lbragstad | bknudson keystone-manage credential_migrate assumes you have keys on disk in order to re-encrypt your credentials | 18:40 |
| lbragstad | bknudson https://gist.github.com/lbragstad/ddfb10f9f9048414d1f781ba006e95d1#encrypted-credential-key-management | 18:41 |
| dolphm | breton: that's only for the fernet token provider? | 18:41 |
| lbragstad | explained in more detail there ^ | 18:41 |
| EmilienM | ayoung: sorry I have to leave now, I'm back in 1h30 | 18:41 |
| dolphm | breton: not for the fernet credential provider | 18:41 |
| breton | dolphm: yes. But i guess it would have to be done for credential provider when the keys move to backend. | 18:41 |
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| bknudson | lbragstad: neat | 18:42 |
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| stevemar | bknudson: will your time be able to handle credential encryption? | 18:43 |
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| ayoung | so we could run the encrypt with a null key | 18:43 |
| stevemar | bknudson: i assume you guys are using fernet tokens now anyway | 18:43 |
| ayoung | er | 18:44 |
| ayoung | upgrade | 18:44 |
| bknudson | stevemar: arrrsula supports fernet tokens. | 18:44 |
| bknudson | not sure what's going to happen with this change. | 18:44 |
| stevemar | bknudson: i'm assuming you'll use the same mechanisms then | 18:44 |
| bknudson | nobody has reported any failures | 18:44 |
| dolphm | ayoung: does that make sense? | 18:44 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: it lets you postpone the hard part, and we can document it as a minimum viable upgrade solution | 18:45 |
| dolphm | (in keystone) | 18:45 |
| ayoung | dolphm, I think you misunderstand what I am saying | 18:45 |
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| ayoung | we could have keystone operate using the null key until one is provided | 18:45 |
| ayoung | if the key database is not populated | 18:45 |
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| ayoung | and deprecate that, too | 18:46 |
| ayoung | dolphm, we just need to give people breathing room, not maintain the no-change upgrade forever | 18:46 |
| lbragstad | why not just have tripleo drop two null keys on disk as /etc/keystone/credential-keys/0 and /etc/keystone/credential-keys/1 ? | 18:47 |
| dolphm | i'm a little lost on how why supporting insecure upgrades needs to be keystone's responsibility | 18:47 |
| ayoung | If we had landed this first thing in the cycle, I would be right there with you | 18:47 |
| ayoung | it is purely the timing that leads me to want to compromise here | 18:47 |
| breton | lbragstad: what would be the contents of the null keys? AAA...=? | 18:48 |
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| dolphm | breton: literally AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA= | 18:48 |
| lbragstad | breton yeah | 18:48 |
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| dolphm | breton: it's the null byte base64 encoded | 18:48 |
| dolphm | well, several null bytes :) | 18:48 |
| ayoung | The insecurity was Keystone's in the first place. A Credential Database is a scary thing, and it should never have existed, certainly not the way it was implemented. The encryption of credentials with a single key is still medicocre at best. | 18:48 |
| lbragstad | or if there is a syncing mechanism in place they could be randomly generated | 18:48 |
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| breton | dolphm: lbragstad: :( why should tripleo know such implementation details about keystone? | 18:49 |
| ayoung | It is not just Tripleo. It is all of the installers that are going to be messed up buy this. Tripleo was just the one that reported it | 18:49 |
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| bknudson | we already knew about it because of the grenade change | 18:50 |
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| lbragstad | breton i thought we considered encryption keys as configuration | 18:50 |
| dolphm | breton: this is something we can document "if you'd like to opt-out of securely storing credentials in your database, then put these two well-known keys in these two files on disk to operate insecurely" | 18:50 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, I know it seems simple, but until you've worked through the mechanisms, it is a change that has significant impact | 18:51 |
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| ayoung | "here are two file that have cryptographic info in them, but use defaults..." | 18:52 |
| dolphm | yeah, it seems like this is an option that could have been implemented before this meeting was over | 18:52 |
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| ayoung | what I did in my POC for Fernet tokens would also work for the credentials. it just would be world readable | 18:52 |
| ayoung | We broke it, we own it. | 18:53 |
| dolphm | ayoung: if you're implying that keystone broke tripleo, i don't think that's fair to say at all | 18:54 |
| ayoung | dolphm, I am saying keystone broken Tripleo. | 18:54 |
| dolphm | tripleo broke itself by attempting upgrades entirely blindly. we write release notes, documentation, examples, configuration docs, etc, for a reason | 18:54 |
| ayoung | and doing so is OKish early in the development cycle | 18:54 |
| ayoung | dolphm, Keystone broke every installer out there that uses this stuff | 18:54 |
| ayoung | We essentially deprecated no-op with no lead time and no transition time | 18:55 |
| ayoung | The end state, with encryption, is probably worth it | 18:55 |
| dolphm | i've literally never heard of anyone attempting to upgrade without at least reading release notes | 18:55 |
| ayoung | dolphm, it wasn't an upgrade | 18:56 |
| ayoung | it was an install | 18:56 |
| ayoung | that install used the credentials basckend | 18:56 |
| stevemar | the install is fine, it's trying to use the credentials backend that failed | 18:56 |
| ayoung | and that fails without the keys in place | 18:56 |
| stevemar | it's tempest that fails | 18:56 |
| stevemar | its the tests *after* install | 18:56 |
| ayoung | As I said, it is probably the right thing to do, in the absolute sense. Just that the timing sucks | 18:57 |
| dolphm | ayoung: an installation of master? | 18:57 |
| ayoung | dolphm, yep | 18:57 |
| bknudson | IBM public cloud process is going to automate upgrading. We're not going to have people reading release notes on every change. | 18:57 |
| ayoung | ++ | 18:57 |
| bknudson | at least that's the plan | 18:58 |
| breton | why... do we write them then | 18:58 |
| dolphm | bknudson: i'm all for automating it, but expect it to fail and to require maintenance to keep it working when changes to your moving target require additional steps | 18:58 |
| breton | git rm -fr release_notes | 18:58 |
| stevemar | breton: so when upgrades fail, we can point bugs to them | 18:58 |
| lbragstad | some folks rely on them for their upgrade process | 18:58 |
| bknudson | dolphm: yes, we'll have tests in place and do expect to do maintenance when the tests fail. | 18:59 |
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| stevemar | for most deployments, it'll be a one-time step | 18:59 |
| breton | 1 minute left | 18:59 |
| stevemar | that's the point of the scripts in grenade | 18:59 |
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| stevemar | tripleo is unfortunately, not a routine deployment of openstack | 18:59 |
| stevemar | otherwise it would be a 1 line command | 19:00 |
| stevemar | #endmeeting | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 6 19:00:09 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:00 |
| stevemar | move to -keystone | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-09-06-17.59.html | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-09-06-17.59.txt | 19:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-09-06-17.59.log.html | 19:00 |
| fungi | infra team, assemble! | 19:00 |
| SotK | o/ | 19:00 |
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| Zara | o/ | 19:00 |
| mordred | o/ | 19:01 |
| rcarrillocruz | o/ | 19:01 |
| rcarrillocruz | JUST IN TIME, phew | 19:01 |
| clarkb | hello | 19:01 |
| fungi | looks like we have a very light agenda today | 19:01 |
| ianw | o/ | 19:01 |
| fungi | one proposed spec from jeblair (corvus) if he's around to comment on it | 19:01 |
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| anteaya | if he isn't are we still meeting? | 19:02 |
| fungi | we can go through the other bits of the meeting quickly and end early | 19:02 |
| pabelanger | o/ | 19:02 |
| pleia2 | o/ | 19:02 |
| clarkb | I think jeblair mentioned he wuold be out this week? | 19:03 |
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| anteaya | okay thanks | 19:03 |
| zaro | o/ | 19:03 |
| mordred | yah - something about holes in his walls | 19:03 |
| fungi | aha, cool. i know how that goes | 19:03 |
| anteaya | oh yeah, something about vacation | 19:03 |
| fungi | anyway, i'll channel him on the spec | 19:03 |
| fungi | #startmeeting infra | 19:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 6 19:03:42 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:03 |
| bkero | o/ | 19:03 |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:03 |
| hrybacki | o/ | 19:03 |
| crinkle | o/ | 19:03 |
| fungi | #topic Announcements | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| fungi | #info Reminder: late-cycle joint Infra/QA get together to be held September 19-21 (CW38) in at SAP offices in Walldorf, DE | 19:04 |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Sprints/QAInfraNewtonSprint | 19:04 |
| fungi | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:04 | |
| fungi | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-08-30-19.02.html | 19:04 |
| fungi | pleia2 set up sprint booking for infra bug day | 19:04 |
| fungi | last week we settled on teh 12th, but it looks like that's taken for an upstream training sprint in #openstack-sprint | 19:04 |
| pleia2 | yeah | 19:04 |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/VirtualSprints#Upstream_training_Sprint | 19:04 |
| pleia2 | I am ok moving to tuesday or wednesday | 19:04 |
| fungi | wfm | 19:04 |
| anteaya | wednesday | 19:05 |
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| anteaya | fewer meetings | 19:05 |
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| pleia2 | yeah, Tuesday is pretty meeting heavy | 19:05 |
| clarkb | either day works for me though wednesday is slightly better | 19:05 |
| fungi | anybody who wanted to participate in the infra bug sprint have issues with or a preference for wednesday? | 19:05 |
| bkero | sgtm | 19:05 |
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| bkero | tuesday similarly heavy with meetings *cough* | 19:05 |
| fungi | and yeah, i'll echo the concern about meetings consuming most of tuesday | 19:05 |
| pleia2 | ok, I'll get that firmed up today w/ wiki+announcement | 19:05 |
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| anteaya | pleia2: thank you | 19:06 |
| zaro | either day wfm | 19:06 |
| Zara | (weds is storyboard meeting so... don't do anything exciting at 15:00 UTC) | 19:06 |
| fungi | #agreed Infra bug sprint is being moved to Wednesday, September 14 | 19:06 |
| * fungi double checks calendars | 19:06 | |
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| fungi | yeah, that looks right | 19:06 |
| anteaya | yup, the 14th is the wed | 19:06 |
| fungi | #action pleia2 set up sprint booking for infra bug day | 19:07 |
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| fungi | anything else on this? maybe at 15:00-16:00 utc during the sprint, we can take the hour to crash^H^H^H^H^Hpitch in on the storyboard meeting | 19:07 |
| Zara | :D | 19:08 |
| fungi | #topic Specs approval | 19:08 |
| pleia2 | or that can be when we begin | 19:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:08 | |
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| fungi | #info APPROVED: Docs Publishing via AFS | 19:08 |
| fungi | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/doc-publishing.html Docs Publishing via AFS | 19:08 |
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| fungi | #topic Specs approval: PROPOSED "Zuulv3: drop variable interpolation and add nodesets" | 19:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval: PROPOSED "Zuulv3: drop variable interpolation and add nodesets" (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:08 | |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/361463 Zuulv3: drop variable interpolation and add nodesets | 19:09 |
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| fungi | this change seems to have superseded the one we talked about last week, and appears to have some mindshare at this point | 19:09 |
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| mordred | sharing minds is important | 19:09 |
| fungi | so i'm going to guess it's jeblair's intent that we move forward with it instead | 19:09 |
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| anteaya | fungi: you added this one to the agenda though right? not jeblair? | 19:09 |
| mordred | that is my understanding | 19:10 |
| fungi | anteaya: yeah, well he asked last week that we vote on its predecessor, but then he superseded it with this new alternative before the voting period ended | 19:10 |
| anteaya | fungi: ah okay thank you | 19:10 |
| clarkb | I thouight we talked about this one last week? | 19:10 |
| anteaya | fungi: you explained before in -infra, just wanted the flow again for the logs | 19:11 |
| anteaya | fungi: thanks for being willing to repeat yourself | 19:11 |
| fungi | hrm, lemme go find it again | 19:11 |
| fungi | oh! yes | 19:11 |
| fungi | there were two versions, he had linked the earlier one | 19:11 |
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| fungi | okay, so i'm going ahead and approving 361463 now | 19:11 |
| anteaya | oh okay that was easy | 19:12 |
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| fungi | i forgot that the wrong (old) one had been linked in the agenda | 19:12 |
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| anteaya | ah | 19:12 |
| fungi | #info APPROVED "Zuulv3: drop variable interpolation and add nodesets" | 19:13 |
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| fungi | #topic Priority Efforts | 19:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:13 | |
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| fungi | we have some time, if there's anybody who had something in the priority efforts list they wanted to cover but were hesitant to put on the agenda | 19:14 |
| fungi | oh, i know, we were going to discuss making the "Docs Publishing via AFS" a priority spec | 19:14 |
| anteaya | +1 priority spec | 19:15 |
| clarkb | I started the newton-xenialing late last week as we seem to be stablizing our image build/new cloud provider situation. I think nova is all done at this point. So the migration is getting there | 19:15 |
| anteaya | clarkb: yay | 19:15 |
| fungi | i think we're needing some additional volunteers to help with the docs one | 19:15 |
| pabelanger | I should be able to start work on the AFS docs spec this week | 19:15 |
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| pabelanger | so feel free to assign me some tasks | 19:16 |
| fungi | last meeting mordred and pabelanger volunteered | 19:16 |
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| mordred | yup | 19:16 |
| fungi | so that's probably plenty | 19:16 |
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| mordred | I think we can make the progresses | 19:16 |
| fungi | i'll propose a change to add the two of you as additional assignees and make it a priority spec. just a sec | 19:17 |
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| fungi | huh, it also needs a review topic | 19:18 |
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| anteaya | afs-docs ? | 19:19 |
| fungi | yep | 19:19 |
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| anteaya | what a guess | 19:20 |
| pleia2 | great minds | 19:20 |
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| anteaya | :) | 19:20 |
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| anteaya | can we have more meetings like this? | 19:21 |
| anteaya | this is great | 19:21 |
| fungi | sorry for the delay | 19:21 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/366303 Prioritize Docs Publishing via AFS | 19:22 |
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| fungi | #info Council voting will remain open on the "Prioritize Docs Publishing via AFS" change until 19:00 UTC on Thursday, September 8 | 19:22 |
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| anteaya | no no, I loved it | 19:22 |
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| anteaya | a moment to actually relax with the team | 19:23 |
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| fungi | #topic Priority Efforts: Newton testing on Xenial | 19:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts: Newton testing on Xenial (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:23 | |
| fungi | clarkb: you were saying...? | 19:23 |
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| clarkb | just that I started picking this work up again | 19:24 |
| fungi | "nova is all done" meaning their unit tests, devstack jobs, everything? | 19:24 |
| clarkb | since the more pressing feature freeze make clouds work stuff has slowed down | 19:24 |
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| clarkb | fungi: ya for a master/newton change against nova their check/gate jobs appear to all have been xenialed where necessary according to zuul status | 19:25 |
| fungi | i've been a little too out of touch with this one, so couldn't recall what was already running on xenial | 19:25 |
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| clarkb | basically unit tests, docs, pep8, functional tests, and integration tests | 19:25 |
| clarkb | then grenade will happen when we switch grenade to doing newton -> master instaed of mitaka -> master | 19:25 |
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| clarkb | I think I am going to focus on using the zuul status page to identify the current gaps as that shows me projects that are active and haven't been xenialed yet | 19:26 |
| fungi | for other projects generally, what's the status? are most of them doing non-integration jobs on xenial already but not devstack-based? | 19:26 |
| clarkb | there is some work in progress to conservatively test some of the stragglers for neutron for example | 19:26 |
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| clarkb | fungi: correct. Basically the common "core" of python-jobs docs and pep8 unittests etc is mostly done. | 19:27 |
| fungi | and yeah, periodically sampling the zuul status.json is a great way to see what's running most often (though i guess you could parse it out of zuul's logs) | 19:27 |
| clarkb | then any projects using the common integration tests also are done | 19:27 |
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| clarkb | where the biggest gap seems to be now is where we have all of the one off jobs | 19:27 |
| clarkb | oslo messaging for example has like 30 jobs for this massive matrix of testing against different backends | 19:28 |
| clarkb | and ironic had >100 integration tests that need modifying last I counted | 19:28 |
| fungi | oh, or i guess you could get it from grpahite too | 19:28 |
| fungi | graphite | 19:28 |
| fungi | ironic isn't actually _running_ all those jobs though, right? | 19:29 |
| fungi | like they just did some sort of matric expansion template and only run a handful of the resulting set? | 19:29 |
| fungi | matrix | 19:29 |
| clarkb | yes though its a fairly large subset of that matrix | 19:29 |
| * fungi it typing worse than usual today | 19:29 | |
| clarkb | its complicated enough that I handed off to ironic a few weeks back and asked them to sort out what they want to do there | 19:29 |
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| fungi | got it | 19:30 |
| fungi | any specific bits of this you need volunteers to jump in and help on besides reviewing? | 19:30 |
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| clarkb | would also help if others could keep pushing patches to split the jobs between trusty and xenial as well | 19:31 |
| clarkb | its just going to be slow methodical work | 19:31 |
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| clarkb | I should probably also send mail to the dev list asking projects that have a lot of one off stuff like oslo.messaging and ironic and so on to do their own evaluation from their side | 19:32 |
| fungi | cool--hopefully we have people interested enough in this (as it's a team priority) who might at least be comfortable with being able to follow the recipe from your previous changes to promose some more | 19:32 |
| fungi | but yes, an ml thread covering that would be helpful | 19:33 |
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| fungi | #info Assistance welcome proposing incremental patches to split jobs between trusty (for <=stable/mitaka) and xenial (for >=stable/newton) welcome | 19:34 |
| fungi | er | 19:34 |
| fungi | #undo | 19:34 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Info object at 0x7f5bbff76b50> | 19:34 |
| fungi | #info Assistance welcome proposing incremental patches to split jobs between trusty (for <=stable/mitaka) and xenial (for >=stable/newton) | 19:34 |
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| fungi | don't want people to feel doubly-welcomed | 19:34 |
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| fungi | that's just a bit too much welcome, even for us | 19:34 |
| fungi | still not seeing any last-minute additions to the agenda, so... | 19:35 |
| fungi | #topic Open discussion | 19:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:35 | |
| fungi | anyone have anything else of a general nature to bring up? | 19:35 |
| pabelanger | we have a lot of clouds now | 19:35 |
| fungi | i've noticed | 19:35 |
| pabelanger | turned up osic-cloud8 today | 19:35 |
| pabelanger | while bumping internap-mtl01 to 150 | 19:36 |
| fungi | between the additional quota and feature freeze, zuul is hardly breaking a sweat | 19:36 |
| pleia2 | nice | 19:36 |
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| pabelanger | Ya, things look real good | 19:36 |
| pleia2 | pabelanger: really great work on all this, I know you've been putting in a lot | 19:36 |
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| clarkb | we ran out of disk on our log server and oinly have 2 months of log retention right now so I am poking around to see if I can find where all of that disk went | 19:36 |
| pabelanger | I hope to turn on rax-iad back online now that we have a new glean release too | 19:36 |
| fungi | oh, right, that | 19:36 |
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| clarkb | pabelanger: yes excellent work pushing on the clouds | 19:37 |
| anteaya | pabelanger: nice, thank you osic and internap for the additional nodes | 19:37 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:37 |
| pabelanger | pleia2: np, happy to do the work | 19:37 |
| zaro | looks like gerrit still has memory leak issue, anybody have any more ideas on tweeking? or suggest another course of action? | 19:37 |
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| fungi | i have a feeling one part of it is related just to general increase in activity. would be interesting to see if the upward curve in log volume started around the same time as an upward curve in our job volume, for example | 19:37 |
| rcarrillocruz | i thought we were being deffensive on bumping nodes prior to release | 19:38 |
| fungi | zaro: what sort of details do you think we should be gathering to provide to upstream to help track down the source of teh leak? | 19:38 |
| rcarrillocruz | re: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/364101/ | 19:38 |
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| rcarrillocruz | should we wait for merging this? | 19:38 |
| clarkb | fungi: ya but I don't think we doubled our job activity. The first major thing I notice is that a lot of jobs don't compress their logs before uploading them | 19:38 |
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| clarkb | and we don't appear to be compressing console logs anymore? | 19:39 |
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| fungi | clarkb: oh, right, and we only do a post-upload compression pass weekly | 19:39 |
| clarkb | oh that would explain why I don't see compressed console logs from yesterday | 19:39 |
| clarkb | compressing those upfront might be a good feature for zuul-launcher | 19:39 |
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| fungi | right, that's done each sunday by log_archive_maintenance.sh | 19:40 |
| clarkb | rcarrillocruz: we should figure out why infra cloud can't handle 10 servers before we bump to 50 | 19:40 |
| zaro | fungi: i've tried to provide all info i know that might help diagnose but we haven't gotten much help from upstream. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/repo-discuss/oj3h3JdioGs/37HTjJieBwAJ | 19:40 |
| fungi | #link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/puppet-openstackci/tree/files/log_archive_maintenance.sh log_archive_maintenance.sh | 19:40 |
| pabelanger | rcarrillocruz: So, I noticed some ConnectionTimeout exceptions on the controller, we should figure out what is causing that first | 19:40 |
| clarkb | rcarrillocruz: that timeout is likely to only get worse if we bump it | 19:40 |
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| rcarrillocruz | right, let's talk that on infra, because i don't know if it was due to sqlite or if you find the root cause already | 19:41 |
| zaro | fungi: i'm welcome to suggestions on providing anything else that may help but i'm not sure i know what other info to add. | 19:41 |
| fungi | #link https://groups.google.com/d/msg/repo-discuss/oj3h3JdioGs/37HTjJieBwAJ | 19:41 |
| zaro | the recent tweek with httpd threads did seem to help though, so i'm open to trying other tweeks if that's the path we want to take. | 19:43 |
| fungi | zaro: skimming that, i wonder if reducing our cache retention would help | 19:43 |
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| fungi | zaro: do you happen to know what gerrit release gerrithub.io is on? | 19:44 |
| zaro | hmm, i think flush cache should lower memory usage if that's the issue | 19:44 |
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| fungi | ahh, there we go. looks like they're running 2.12-1426-g7e45a46 | 19:45 |
| zaro | yeah, different version. | 19:46 |
| fungi | zaro: good point. i don't know that we've explicitly tested a cache flush to see what happens with memory usage inside the jvm. i'll give that a shot in a bit | 19:46 |
| zaro | i'm wondering if we should put effort into upgrading instead of tweeking? | 19:46 |
| clarkb | zaro: only if the upgrade is better ;) | 19:46 |
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| clarkb | zaro: its sort of hard to test the "make gerrit crash after 2 weeks of use" scenario though | 19:46 |
| fungi | zaro: well, upgrading _is_ something we should put effort into, but we may still find ourselves in need of tweaking after that's done | 19:46 |
| zaro | polygerrit UI is still not ready though | 19:46 |
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| zaro | i'm cool either way, just wondering which way you think we should go. | 19:48 |
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| clarkb | I will admit that I am extremely wary of gerrit upgrades at this point | 19:48 |
| fungi | #action fungi Test whether gerrit flush-caches significantly reduces memory utilization in Gerrit's JVM | 19:49 |
| clarkb | the last couple we have done appear to have caught critical bugs that no one else reported and upstream was unwilling to fix for siginficant amounts of time | 19:49 |
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| clarkb | wondering how we can do better testing on our end since upstream isn't able to shake the issues out | 19:49 |
| zaro | i would recommend skipping 2.12 and go to 2.13 but that's only in rc at this point. so maybe upgrade is prematue at this point. | 19:50 |
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| fungi | we're unlikely to want to upgrade between now and release day anyway | 19:50 |
| anteaya | zaro: is there a reason? | 19:50 |
| zaro | so maybe continue to look for memory fix until 2.13 shakes out. | 19:50 |
| anteaya | ah okay | 19:51 |
| fungi | i assume the suggestion for 2.13 is that at least some of backports we're running aren't present in 2.12 but only in 2.13? | 19:51 |
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| fungi | do they release on a schedule, or have any eta on 2.13? | 19:52 |
| zaro | yes, i believe 2.13 has more fixes we need. | 19:52 |
| clarkb | I wonder if this would be a use case for a read only slave gerrit | 19:52 |
| zaro | no schedule. | 19:52 |
| clarkb | basically have it chase upstream gerrit master and we can see if it breaks more or less awesome than the RW master | 19:52 |
| clarkb | (thats probably a really complicated setup to keep running though) | 19:52 |
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| fungi | i expect that unless people were using it as actively as the r+w master, we wouldn't really know anyway | 19:53 |
| clarkb | db migrations etc nto sure how you resolve that | 19:53 |
| clarkb | fungi: ya that too | 19:53 |
| zaro | clarkb: can do, but yeah more complex setup | 19:53 |
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| zaro | gerritforge does that for active/pass setup | 19:53 |
| zaro | pass/passive | 19:53 |
| fungi | for example, the big mess where we had to roll back (was it 2.10? 2.9?) only showed up once activity ramped up | 19:54 |
| fungi | so we could very easily have not seen it at all even on a full copy of our production data, because it wouldn't have a full copy of our user volume | 19:54 |
| clarkb | fungi: yes though it was trivially reproduceable on the dev server once we udnerstood the behavior | 19:54 |
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| fungi | right. just pointing out that we'd need a load generator that mostly mimics our usage | 19:55 |
| fungi | no idea how hard that would be to build | 19:55 |
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| fungi | though it's worth noting that, at least for now, review-dev has the same size server as production, so we could just leave it that way and let people try to build a load tester that exercises it | 19:56 |
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| zaro | ok. well maybe think about tweeks we can make to avoid the memory leak until it's a viable option to discuss another gerrit upgrade? | 19:57 |
| fungi | back when our git-review testing ran against review-dev, i was sort of able to generate some of that kind of load | 19:57 |
| fungi | just by firing up multiple instances of the test script | 19:57 |
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| zaro | review-dev load is very basic. not at all like review at this point. | 19:57 |
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| fungi | though that script obviously only tested git-review relevant interactions, and certainly not browsery things | 19:58 |
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| clarkb | ya its always difficult to mimic your users | 19:59 |
| fungi | zaro: i think we should plan for another gerrit upgrade regardless. there is a released version newer than what we're running, and we know from experience that the pain from running an extremely outdated version only delays the inevitable upgrade pain | 19:59 |
| clarkb | especially since gerrit has bits of the ui still not exposed to the rest api iirc | 19:59 |
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| fungi | we resolved after we got off our 2.4 fork to try and keep up with upstream releases | 19:59 |
| pleia2 | I wonder if there's some open source test tooling for testing browser load, there must be | 19:59 |
| fungi | worth looking into | 20:00 |
| pleia2 | I might poke around that | 20:00 |
| fungi | hey! we managed to fill up the hour | 20:00 |
| pleia2 | thanks fungi | 20:00 |
| clarkb | :) | 20:00 |
| fungi | thanks everyone! | 20:00 |
| fungi | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 6 20:00:19 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-09-06-19.03.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-09-06-19.03.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-09-06-19.03.log.html | 20:00 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 20:00 |
| ttx | o/ | 20:00 |
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| mestery | o/ | 20:00 |
| * jroll pokes his head in | 20:00 | |
| jlvillal | start the meeting? | 20:00 |
| dtroyer | o/ | 20:00 |
| ttx | jlvillal: need quorum first | 20:00 |
| ttx | annegentle, dims, dhellmann, mtreinish, mordred, russellb, sdague: around ? | 20:01 |
| jlvillal | Oh, different rules here | 20:01 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:01 |
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| * edleafe gets comfortable | 20:01 | |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | johnthetubaguy indicated he might be late or miss | 20:01 |
| dims | o/ | 20:01 |
| russellb | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | jlvillal: http://governance.openstack.org/reference/charter.html | 20:01 |
| fungi | jlvillal: the tc can't meet without having a quorum present | 20:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 6 20:01:35 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:01 |
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| mtreinish | o/ | 20:01 |
| sambetts | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | Hello everyone! Our agenda for today: | 20:01 |
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| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:01 |
| ttx | (remember everyone can use #info #idea and #link to make for a more readable summary) | 20:02 |
| ttx | #topic Add 'library convergence' to Requirements mission | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add 'library convergence' to Requirements mission (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
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| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/363502 | 20:02 |
| ttx | This is a follow-up patch to address one of my comments on the Requirements team mission | 20:02 |
| ttx | just reached majority approval | 20:02 |
| ttx | any objection to merging it now ? | 20:02 |
| ttx | I'll take that as a no | 20:03 |
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| dims | go for it ttx | 20:03 |
| ttx | approved | 20:03 |
| ttx | #topic Mention where the metric rules are defined/used | 20:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Mention where the metric rules are defined/used (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:04 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/342225 | 20:04 |
| ttx | This is a clarification of how those tags is actually applied | 20:04 |
| ttx | Looks like a good incremental improvement to me | 20:04 |
| ttx | flaper87: anything you wanted to mention ? | 20:04 |
| flaper87 | nope, I'll address the typos | 20:04 |
| flaper87 | if folks have questions, I'm happy to answer them | 20:04 |
| flaper87 | I noticed amrith's comment but dhellmann replied to him | 20:05 |
| dhellmann | since this is a formal-vote item, do you want to do the typos as a separate patch? | 20:05 |
| flaper87 | so, I think I'm good | 20:05 |
| flaper87 | yup, sounds good to me | 20:05 |
| ttx | yes typo, patches are fasttracked too | 20:05 |
| dhellmann | unless you wanted to do the more substantial rewrite annegentle proposed | 20:05 |
| annegentle | yeah I think that follow up's fine | 20:05 |
| dhellmann | k | 20:05 |
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| annegentle | plural possessive ftw | 20:05 |
| amrith | ./ | 20:05 |
| ttx | I think "proposed" is valid, so amrith -1 is probably shallow | 20:06 |
| mtreinish | flaper87: how does the tool handle repos with a single review in 6 months? | 20:06 |
| * mtreinish is just curious | 20:06 | |
| amrith | none of my concerns are of the ilk that require a hold up. my -1 is as ttx said, shallow | 20:06 |
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| flaper87 | mtreinish: mmh, good question. I should double check that. can't remember OTOH | 20:06 |
| ttx | mtreinish: we still use common sense when applying tag changes, fwiw | 20:06 |
| flaper87 | mtreinish: iirc, it considers the project as not active | 20:06 |
| ttx | which is why we end up reviewing the proposed changes | 20:06 |
| flaper87 | but yeah | 20:07 |
| flaper87 | common sense is still the rule | 20:07 |
| mtreinish | ttx: sure, its just we are encoding that it's what the script does in there right? | 20:07 |
| amrith | ttx, dhellmann, flaper87 just the observation is that the tool currently doesn't deal with patch proposal, rather with 'reviews during the period'. | 20:07 |
| amrith | the distinciton is subtle but one that exists ... | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | amrith : we're measuring the activity of the reviewer, right? | 20:07 |
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| ttx | mtreinish: patch just says we measure activity based on rules of the script. Not that we blindly apply script's output as law | 20:08 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: +1 | 20:08 |
| amrith | yes, dhellmann .. in that case you should consider reviews proposed during the period, not patches proposed during the period. | 20:08 |
| dhellmann | amrith : there is no requirement that a core-reviewer submit patches | 20:08 |
| flaper87 | mtreinish: the line was more generic and annegentle correctly pointed out that we may want to have some of the current rules explained in plain English | 20:09 |
| dhellmann | amrith : I'm not understanding whatever you're trying to say | 20:09 |
| amrith | dhellmann, if a review lasts longer than the six months | 20:09 |
| amrith | it was not 'proposed' within the period | 20:09 |
| amrith | it was 'reviewed' within the period | 20:09 |
| dhellmann | amrith : a "review" is when I click -1, etc. | 20:09 |
| amrith | that was the distinciton I was looking at | 20:09 |
| dhellmann | we count those events | 20:09 |
| dhellmann | those are point-in-time, and don't span releases | 20:09 |
| flaper87 | we don't count the proposed patches | 20:09 |
| ttx | "patches currently proposed for review" | 20:09 |
| flaper87 | but the reviews made to those patches | 20:09 |
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| ttx | not patches created in a given timeframe | 20:09 |
| sambetts | "have reviewed at least 2% of the proposed..." | 20:10 |
| dhellmann | I think the word order is confusing some people here | 20:10 |
| dhellmann | reviews need to be on patches that are open | 20:10 |
| dhellmann | they can have been opened at any time | 20:10 |
| amrith | the verbiage is "of the proposed | 20:10 |
| amrith | patches", change it to "of the proposed reviews" and I think it will say what you are saying here ... | 20:10 |
| dhellmann | the reviews need to happen in the period being measured | 20:11 |
| flaper87 | if annegentle's text is clearer, I'll update the patch | 20:11 |
| dhellmann | amrith : you are using the term 'review' to mean what I think this is meaning when it says 'patch' | 20:11 |
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| amrith | dhellmann, in that case we're saying the same thing. I withdraw my -1 | 20:11 |
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| annegentle | I'm not sure mine addressed the proposed, vs. not proposed in the window of reviews | 20:12 |
| dhellmann | flaper87 : "review comment" might be clearer | 20:12 |
| annegentle | but yeah | 20:12 |
| annegentle | main thing is to write it like we're talking about it | 20:12 |
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| flaper87 | dhellmann: would that still count as typo ? | 20:12 |
| flaper87 | :P | 20:12 |
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| * flaper87 can do a ninja fix during the meeting | 20:12 | |
| ttx | ok, let's try that and move on | 20:13 |
| ttx | we'll be back to this one on open discussion | 20:13 |
| annegentle | sounds good | 20:13 |
| dhellmann | ok | 20:13 |
| ttx | #topic Write down OpenStack principles (initial discussion) | 20:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Write down OpenStack principles (initial discussion) (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:13 | |
| ttx | timeboxing to 15min | 20:13 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/357260 | 20:13 |
| ttx | So... this one is an effort to document a few principles we historically follow in how we write OpenStack | 20:13 |
| ttx | Credits for the original draft goes to mordred | 20:14 |
| ttx | although I removed most of the swearing so you wouldn't be able to tell | 20:14 |
| annegentle | ha | 20:14 |
| ttx | Once we are happy with the draft, we should start a larger discussion on the ML before approving it | 20:14 |
| annegentle | there's no swearing in OpenStack | 20:14 |
| ttx | But I'd like to see some consensus on the TC before we move to that | 20:14 |
| annegentle | How do we revise to be more welcoming? | 20:15 |
| ttx | I've not seen objections from TC members, but from the larger community, so far there is some discussion around the wording of the "One OpenStack" principle | 20:15 |
| annegentle | I mean, I know I said somethign like that on the review, but hadn't offered a true revision. | 20:15 |
| ttx | annegentle: yes, I'll come back to that | 20:15 |
| annegentle | ttx ok thanks | 20:15 |
| ttx | On "One OpenStack" there are definitely some developers who would prefer to see OpenStack as a loose collection of independent projects | 20:15 |
| ttx | I'll just point out that this was discussed and decided before (in 2011) by the ancestor to the TC, the PPB | 20:16 |
| anteaya | can I just ask whoever is doing the style reviews if we could get some consenseus on language before we have a lot more on things like case used in headings | 20:16 |
| mtreinish | ttx: my only issue with it was already pointed out among the sea of comments there. Which is a definition of the 'OpenStack Way' | 20:16 |
| ttx | So this is nothing new, we are just copying it over. That doesn't mean we couldn't change it in the future, but that's not the goal of this change | 20:16 |
| ttx | mtreinish: yes, that is a bit fuzzy and could use other wording | 20:16 |
| ttx | The other one which seems to trigger reactions is the last one, "Participation is voluntary" | 20:16 |
| mtreinish | but other than that I was happy with most of what was there (for what I could parse amongst all the inline comments) | 20:16 |
| ttx | which is seen as overly negative and could probably be rewritten in a more positive way | 20:16 |
| ttx | The rest of the principles seem to be mostly acceptable so far, some wording tweaks might be necessary | 20:17 |
| ttx | like mentioning "the OpenStack Way" without defining it | 20:17 |
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| ttx | should probably just say "those principles" | 20:17 |
| notmyname | ttx: please don't read my comments on the proposed doc as disagreeing with previous TC rules. I simply found the phrasing inconsistent and unclear. I didnt' advocate for a particular "side" | 20:17 |
| mtreinish | ttx: well I have know what that is, (especially if it was an mordred draft originally) but I think definiing it would be useful | 20:18 |
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| mtreinish | I think we also mention it in the big tent resolution | 20:18 |
| ttx | So I'll probably propose a new revision and start a thread on the ML to expose it to more eyes | 20:19 |
| flaper87 | ++ | 20:19 |
| ttx | I don't think there are strong objections to any of those, but the wording matters | 20:19 |
| dims | ttx : agree | 20:19 |
| dtroyer | ttx: ++ | 20:19 |
| dhellmann | ++ | 20:19 |
| ttx | like notmyname says, they can be read in a lot of different ways and could use extra precision | 20:19 |
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| ttx | I certainly don't see any need to rush that. I see it more like missing documentation than a new thing though | 20:20 |
| annegentle | ttx I wondered if a set of positive statements "If we have these attributes, then these other results happen" along the lines of "we know we are doing these things when..." will help | 20:20 |
| dtroyer | I do like the amount of input from folk with different perspectives. we assume a bit too much tribal knowledge sometimes | 20:20 |
| annegentle | ttx I do see it as helping us to articulate what is not known by all | 20:20 |
| edleafe | dtroyer: +1 | 20:20 |
| annegentle | dtroyer exactly | 20:21 |
| flaper87 | dtroyer: yeah | 20:21 |
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| ttx | dtroyer: especially those that have been around forever assume that what they think is what others think | 20:21 |
| ttx | I'm guilty of that and I thank mordred for starting the effort to document those | 20:21 |
| anteaya | annegentle: ++ postiive statements | 20:22 |
| ttx | ok, so I'll do a new revision, let it bake a few days and if it holds the water start a thread on the ML to see how it floats | 20:22 |
| flaper87 | ttx: lol | 20:23 |
| flaper87 | sounds good to me | 20:23 |
| ttx | Currently assuming there are no objection to any of the principles from the TC, but that we need to refine the wording | 20:23 |
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| ttx | In particular the "my way or the highway" tone of the last one is, I think, missing the mark | 20:24 |
| dhellmann | yes, that needs some work | 20:24 |
| annegentle | ttx I only did a first read, and I would like to do a deeper read again... I feel it is missing some vision. | 20:24 |
| annegentle | ttx like why are we openstack at all? | 20:24 |
| annegentle | ttx sounds a bit philosophical I know, but it felt like it was missing vision and purpose | 20:25 |
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| ttx | annegentle: this is not a new thing we don't have, it's a write-up of rules we've been operating under | 20:25 |
| ttx | annegentle: I'd say the vision work is separate | 20:25 |
| ttx | annegentle: vision != principles != mission | 20:26 |
| flaper87 | yeah, I'd firs try to write down the things we've been operating on, see how sound they are and see if they still apply | 20:26 |
| flaper87 | we can let this evolve from there | 20:26 |
| edleafe | Positive statements are great, but the occasional "we don't do it this way" can also be enlightening to someone coming in new | 20:26 |
| jroll | document the world before you change the world :) | 20:26 |
| ttx | jroll: yes! | 20:27 |
| flaper87 | we can even trim it a bit and discuss some of those points separately if we find them controversial but let's first get some further feedback | 20:27 |
| ttx | Also like all things we do, the form of this one won't be eternal | 20:27 |
| ttx | it will evolve over time | 20:27 |
| annegentle | ttx I sense there's still tension between "are we building blocks for different types of clouds" or "a community that builds software for all clouds" (Hence the storage focused cloud vs. a compute focused cloud could give you a different set of project selections.) | 20:27 |
| annegentle | flaper87 you might be onto something, can the rules be collected in separate patches (they probably shouldn't be though if we really are getting agreement to the agreements we already operate within) | 20:28 |
| ttx | annegentle: I'd say this is a "mission" question -- and we have "interoperability" in the Openstack mission now | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | annegentle : do you think that tension goes beyond the question about whether we're talking about monolithic deployments vs. governance? | 20:28 |
| flaper87 | mmh, but I don't think that belongs to the principles | 20:29 |
| flaper87 | unless I'm misreading you, annegentle | 20:29 |
| annegentle | dhellmann hmmmm thinking | 20:29 |
| annegentle | I'm trying to get at the question of "be governed or hit the road" | 20:29 |
| ttx | one minute to timebox | 20:29 |
| annegentle | With governance comes accountability, so are we holding the contributors accountable? Yes. The deployers? Not so much. | 20:30 |
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| ttx | ok, let's continue the discussion on the review and the future ML thread | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | but isn't this about the contributors? | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | k | 20:30 |
| annegentle | So I'll re-read and try to offer revisions with those thoughts top-of-mind ttx | 20:30 |
| annegentle | dhellmann yep it is. | 20:30 |
| ttx | but please don't try to pile up too much on this doc. It's n,t a code of conduct nor a mission statement nor a vision description | 20:31 |
| ttx | Just a set of principles beyond the "4 opens" | 20:31 |
| dims | ++ttx | 20:31 |
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| ttx | It's not the answer to all the questions | 20:31 |
| ttx | ok, moving on | 20:31 |
| annegentle | yeah good point | 20:31 |
| ttx | #topic Add networking-cisco back into the Big Tent | 20:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add networking-cisco back into the Big Tent (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:31 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/363709 | 20:32 |
| ttx | Some history | 20:32 |
| ttx | networking-cisco was officially removed from the Neutron stadium back in April | 20:32 |
| ttx | That was following a decision by the Neutron team in February to "not vouch for projects that are purely interfaces to proprietary technologies" | 20:32 |
| ttx | So the networking-cisco folks would like to be recognized as a separate official project team | 20:32 |
| ttx | First of all, like flaper87 and dtroyer said, I don't think we should fast-track that application on the grounds that it was originally part of the Neutron stadium. | 20:33 |
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| ttx | We should consider if teams belong in OpenStack separately from decisions made in the past by a specific project team | 20:33 |
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| ttx | Looking at the proposal I have two concerns, which I mentioned in the review | 20:33 |
| ttx | The first is the timing -- post-FF is a pretty bad timing to add any project team. The release contents is set, the Design Summit tracks are assigned, elections are being organized | 20:33 |
| ttx | This should really have been proposed earlier, shortly after it was removed in April | 20:34 |
| ttx | So at this stage I'd rather reconsider this one at the start of Ocata | 20:34 |
| ttx | Then there is my second concern, which is around the "level and open collaboration playing field" requirement | 20:34 |
| flaper87 | ++ | 20:34 |
| dtroyer | ++ | 20:34 |
| mtreinish | ttx: also wouldn't this fall under the same thing as poppy, where it only works with a proprietary backend? Or because it's a neutron plugin does that make it different? | 20:34 |
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| ttx | To me a project team whose deliverables purely interface with proprietary technologies violates that requirement | 20:34 |
| flaper87 | mtreinish: that's the second concern :) | 20:34 |
| dhellmann | It's a bit unfortunate that the dissolution of neutron is leading to this being a question at all. Having different teams handle drivers in different ways is going to lead to a lot of confusion. | 20:34 |
| mtreinish | ttx: also I'm fine with deferring to O :) | 20:35 |
| ttx | mtreinish: yes, prettmuch | 20:35 |
| annegentle | do we know the original neutron requirements, are they written down? | 20:35 |
| ttx | Or in other words, should we provide open collaboration resources to a project that is clearly tilted in favor of one single organization contributors | 20:35 |
| russellb | dhellmann: ++ | 20:35 |
| annegentle | agreed on timing, btw | 20:35 |
| dougwig | mtreinish: being part of neutron does not confer magical vendor openness powers. it is not different, IMO. | 20:35 |
| mtreinish | dougwig: I agree with that. I was just playing devil's advocate with the second question | 20:35 |
| sambetts | the bad timing is my fault, I only realised we had been removed from the big tent too when I dug into why I couldn't publish to docs.openstack.org any more | 20:36 |
| ttx | So yes, I'd like to defer this one until RC1 at least, and probably the new TC elections | 20:36 |
| mtreinish | because in the past we were discussing a service with a proprietary backend, but this isn't a service | 20:36 |
| dhellmann | We have several teams struggling with how to handle vendor-specific contributions like drivers, and they're coming to different conclusions. It would be useful to see what sort of commonality there might be. | 20:36 |
| annegentle | dhellmann yeah I'd like this written down | 20:36 |
| ttx | But I wouldn't mind a quick read of the current TC on the "level playing field" requirement | 20:36 |
| annegentle | dhellmann and agreed to | 20:36 |
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| dtroyer | the projects that have proprietary components are all still useful on their own in some way without the proprietary bits | 20:37 |
| fungi | it's a bit of an existential question on drivers in general. was the code "more free and open" when it was under neutron's governance than it is when governed separately? | 20:37 |
| ttx | annegentle: yes, neutron subproject acceptance policy is written down | 20:37 |
| russellb | i just think it's organizational bizarre and awkward | 20:37 |
| russellb | organizationally* | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | fungi : as a part of a larger whole, maybe? | 20:37 |
| edleafe | How is this different than the VMWare or Hyper-V drivers for Nova? | 20:37 |
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| ttx | edleafe: it's not a separate team. If they were, they would fall under the same argument | 20:38 |
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| flaper87 | edleafe: It might not be but the governance rules are | 20:38 |
| dtroyer | edleafe: they are part of Nova, and subject to everything Nova is subject to as a whole, with at least one exception of testing in our environment | 20:38 |
| ttx | i.e. the "Nova team" is a level playing field | 20:38 |
| annegentle | #link http://docs.openstack.org/developer/neutron/stadium/sub_projects.html | 20:38 |
| flaper87 | I mean, Nova's requirement is not (was not) the same as the big tent | 20:38 |
| russellb | but it represents the consensus in neutron team at the moment | 20:38 |
| flaper87 | it's unfortunate | 20:38 |
| edleafe | I was thinking more in terms of Neutron kicking them out | 20:38 |
| dougwig | edleafe: the nova core team agreed to maintain those drivers. | 20:38 |
| fungi | it's possibel that the neutron stadium was masking vendor-specific teams under a larger non-vendor-specific team | 20:39 |
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| edleafe | dougwig: Hyper-v was kicked out because no one was supporting it | 20:39 |
| fungi | so once those subteams are cut loose, they're suddenly exposed as vendor-specific | 20:39 |
| ttx | In other words, if we were to accept networking-cisco, we'd have an "OpenStack project team" that is clearly a "Cisco project team" since Cisco contributors have access to more data than other contributors | 20:39 |
| dtroyer | fungi: isn't that what led to its undoing? | 20:39 |
| dhellmann | fungi : likely. do we see that in the other teams with vendor-specific drivers? | 20:39 |
| cburgess | fungi I'm pretty sure it was doing exactly like. But then I think you have a similar thing in cinder and nova with some of their driver teams as well. | 20:39 |
| russellb | fungi: of course it was | 20:39 |
| edleafe | They wer eonly let back in when there were resources from Microsoft and others | 20:39 |
| russellb | naturally, for any vendor driver ... | 20:39 |
| dhellmann | ttx: yes, that's right, I don't think I could vote to accept this as a standalone team :-( | 20:40 |
| russellb | i'd ask this another way ... do vendor drivers belong "in" OpenStack? | 20:40 |
| fungi | dtroyer: i'm mostly curious because neutron's stadium governance model is at least suprtficially to infra's council model | 20:40 |
| edleafe | IOW, Nova will not support it if the vendor support disappears | 20:40 |
| sdague | so... honestly the bigger concern is that, correct me if I'm wrong, in neutron drivers can actually change the API in substantial ways | 20:40 |
| * fungi really can't type today | 20:40 | |
| dhellmann | russellb : I would like to have them all in-tree, or at least in repos accepted by the parent project team. | 20:40 |
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| russellb | dhellmann: agreed | 20:41 |
| sambetts | in regards to openness, all our code and libraries are apache 2.0 opensource, and though we right now have mostly developers from Cisco, we are unbias to code contributions from anywhere | 20:41 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: ++ | 20:41 |
| persia | Is it important that it is a single vendor, or that the back end is not open, or only if both apply? | 20:41 |
| russellb | sdague: some have in the past, though it's frowned upon these days | 20:41 |
| dhellmann | persia : the closed backend is more important, imho | 20:41 |
| sdague | russellb: do we know where this driver falls on that line? | 20:41 |
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| russellb | in terms of hacking the API? i don't. sambetts, does networking-cisco add custom REST APIs? | 20:41 |
| dhellmann | persia : i have to have access to gear to test, and I have to have access to new project feature information that might not be public to develop | 20:41 |
| ttx | sambetts: but contributors from Cisco happen to have access to the code of the black box you're interfacing with... which gives them a clear advantage | 20:41 |
| fungi | lack of an open backend means nobody can test changes to the driver adequately unless they buy/license the target backend | 20:41 |
| flaper87 | sdague: not sure that's the biggest concern, tbh. | 20:41 |
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| ttx | sambetts: unless you end up providing every potential contributor with the appliances source code and test hardware | 20:42 |
| ttx | sambetts: the end result will be that only Cisco will contribute to that team, and that team will forever be single-vendor | 20:42 |
| cburgess | ttx sambetts how is this different from most of the cinder drivers? Is the difference the fact that this is *out of tree* from an already accepted project? | 20:43 |
| ttx | I don't see the point of putting that under OpenStack governance | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | rather than rejecting this, I would prefer that we work with the neutron team to reverse the dissolution decision | 20:43 |
| russellb | i think the more valuable conversation here is trying to figure out if we can make driver handling more consistent in openstack | 20:43 |
| flaper87 | russellb: dhellmann ++ | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | cburgess : yes | 20:43 |
| flaper87 | yes | 20:43 |
| dougwig | dhellmann: that's not likely to happen. | 20:43 |
| russellb | because this is going to come up 25 times | 20:43 |
| fungi | also that makes for some rather slow turn-around on adding new contributors if they do. for example i may want to propose some mass changes for a particular bug across many projects. i wouldn't be able to locally test my changes for that particular repo without some significant turn-around time to get the required hardware | 20:43 |
| russellb | just for neutron | 20:43 |
| ttx | So, let's use the delay to have a larger discussion about vendor drivers in OpenStack | 20:43 |
| ttx | and try to present a coherent front | 20:43 |
| flaper87 | sounds good to me | 20:44 |
| anteaya | dhellmann: I think that ship sailed when neutron decided to make driver testing optional | 20:44 |
| dhellmann | dougwig : does neutron have a stable driver API? | 20:44 |
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| russellb | stable-ish | 20:44 |
| sambetts | we have documented open APIs for our hardware, and I don't see why someone unrelated to Cisco who has a peice of our hardware couldn't contribute a feature they want | 20:44 |
| russellb | has been getting much better lately | 20:44 |
| annegentle | I think this is about consistency in treatment of driver teams -- the conversation about backports comes to mind as well. | 20:44 |
| dhellmann | sambetts : could I do the same for an unreleased piece of hardware? | 20:45 |
| dougwig | dhellmann: even simple requirements bumps can break things. and with 30+ drivers, and drive-by vendor contributors, it was a lot of work even to kick out the stuff that had gone idle. that solution doesn't scale. | 20:45 |
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| ttx | sambetts: they would still have a harder time than a Cisco developer with access to the black box code, and factory-cost hardware | 20:45 |
| sambetts | dhellmann: we wouldn't consider putting in there | 20:45 |
| dhellmann | dougwig : is the neutron team accepting any of these drivers, or are they all being pushed out? what's the dividing line? | 20:46 |
| sambetts | and we strive to provide third party CI for all hardware backends we support | 20:46 |
| ttx | We need to move on | 20:46 |
| russellb | everything is split, except for the "default" stuff, which was honestly too embedded to be split out (my take on how it went down) | 20:46 |
| dougwig | dhellmann: the ref implementation (ovs & lb) are all that remain. the plugin interfaces are being maintained as stable interfaces. | 20:46 |
| russellb | nobody motivated enough to extract that stuff | 20:46 |
| ttx | My take is, we need to delay this until Ocata is started and the var is open to new project teams again (and the next TC is elected) | 20:46 |
| ttx | bar* | 20:46 |
| fungi | sambetts: on the requirements change point, avoiding involvement in community processes which are hard to implement because your backend is proprietary doesn't make for a compelling argument for why it should be an official community project | 20:46 |
| cburgess | ttx I think you put too much on this whole access to the black box. I'm a cisco employee and I can't just go download the source for how one of our devices works. It doesn't work that way. | 20:46 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I agree with waiting. | 20:46 |
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| ttx | And we should take the time until then to reflect back on vendor drivers everywhere and present a more coherent front | 20:47 |
| russellb | ttx: +1, especially to the latter point | 20:47 |
| dhellmann | ++ | 20:47 |
| * flaper87 nods | 20:47 | |
| fungi | cburgess: i find that (and all proprietary software) unfortunate | 20:47 |
| ttx | ok, next topic | 20:47 |
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| dtroyer | cburgess: it really is not about individual contributors as much as it is about simply being open and accessible and available | 20:47 |
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| ttx | #topic Add ocata goal "support python 3.5" | 20:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add ocata goal "support python 3.5" (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:47 | |
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| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/349069 | 20:48 |
| ttx | Last week we explored three ideas -- making unit tests an optional part of the goal, rewrite it with full-stack-testing as an objective, or find some other goal entirely | 20:48 |
| ttx | notmyname said dropping unit tests would not really make the goal easier for Swift, so there seems to be little point in doing that | 20:48 |
| ttx | sdague said he would explore a py35 full-stack-testing goal variant but was worried about lack of activity drivers, since most py35-pushing folks are not involved with devstack/gate | 20:48 |
| ttx | ... and no alternate goal was proposed | 20:49 |
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| ttx | So this is a bit stalled | 20:49 |
| sdague | ttx: well, it was feature freeze week :) | 20:49 |
| sdague | + holiday | 20:49 |
| dhellmann | ttx: haypo has agreed to lead a team of helpers. I'll be on the team. We can recruit others. | 20:49 |
| russellb | this goal still seems to obvious to me ... i'm not sure what to say | 20:49 |
| dhellmann | where helpers != "we're going to write your patches for you" | 20:49 |
| ttx | sdague: yes, fair. Happy to put it back on agenda next week. Not much time left today anyway | 20:49 |
| russellb | s/to/so/ | 20:49 |
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| sdague | russellb: I think the end goal is good for sure | 20:50 |
| russellb | ok | 20:50 |
| sdague | I guess the question is if it's just implementation path, do we figure out how to fuzz that and agree on the end goal | 20:50 |
| dhellmann | I think it would be a mistake to say we can only have goals where we have a set of people "driving" the work. The point is to get project teams to integrate these things with their existing work. | 20:50 |
| russellb | i think it's good enough to just say "yes, we agree this end goal is important, and we should try" | 20:50 |
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| sdague | dhellmann: I think that assumes that it's complete rote | 20:51 |
| sdague | I'm not convinced we're at the completely rote stage here | 20:51 |
| ttx | personally I'd rather have goals that can be clearly "completed", as opposed to say "advance the state of py35" and have everyone evaluate what "some progress" means | 20:51 |
| notmyname | russellb: projects work on a goal and report progress? | 20:51 |
| dhellmann | sdague : we have seen over and over that having a central team try to do work across all repos does not scale. | 20:52 |
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| jroll | sdague: I wonder if you might get more folks hacking on nova/devstack/gate than you think, if only because so many projects full stack testing depends on nova working | 20:52 |
| ttx | but I also agree this one as proposed is a bit assymetric for that | 20:52 |
| dhellmann | jroll : right | 20:52 |
| sdague | jroll: that's fine | 20:52 |
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| mtreinish | dhellmann: it's more than just an isolated thing in each project. We've had projects declare they're py3 compat on the ML but it's just unit tests. No one is driving getting a dsvm job running or any of the cross project work | 20:52 |
| sdague | my instinct is that it won't just happen, but I'm happy to be proved wrong | 20:52 |
| dtroyer | ttx: I do think it is worth us saying this is a high community priority, as a lot of the decision makers in corporate sponsors watch these things… this is one way to influence how resources get allcated | 20:53 |
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| dhellmann | mtreinish : that is the entire point of this goal, to make all of that happen | 20:53 |
| ttx | OK, I propose to put it back on agenda next week (hopefully first item) and have people more ready to discuss it then | 20:53 |
| flaper87 | ttx: sounds good. We don't have much time left anyway | 20:53 |
| dhellmann | please be ready to say something more specific than "this won't work" | 20:53 |
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| sdague | dhellmann: ok, but which project team owns the sunk shared cost? Like getting the first job running is going to be 10x the cost of the second project joining in. | 20:53 |
| ttx | dhellmann: ++ | 20:53 |
| mtreinish | dhellmann: except nothing in the goal has people stepping up to do that work. Like d-g is an infra thing and devstack is an qa thing, but who owns getting things running with py3 | 20:53 |
| mtreinish | there is a lot of effort in getting things running in the gate on all projects, and it's not owned by a particular silo | 20:54 |
| dhellmann | sdague : do we need to pick someone up front? | 20:54 |
| ttx | mtreinish: a bit of everyone, that's the idea with the goals | 20:54 |
| sdague | mtreinish: ++ | 20:54 |
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| ttx | if we know who will do the work, what's the point in inspiring people to work on a thing | 20:54 |
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| dims | "tiger team"! | 20:54 |
| sdague | ttx: is that the point? | 20:54 |
| sdague | I thought the point was getting the thing done in a timely manner? | 20:55 |
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| flaper87 | sdague: well, that's one of the points. | 20:55 |
| sdague | if the point is to recruit new folks to a task, that's fine | 20:55 |
| flaper87 | If we have a goal, we also need to move it forward | 20:55 |
| ttx | one of the points at least | 20:55 |
| clarkb | mtreinish: there shouldn't be anything required from d-g to run openstack under python3 | 20:55 |
| clarkb | mtreinish: fwiw | 20:55 |
| sdague | but it is actually orthoginal to timely manner | 20:55 |
| mtreinish | clarkb: well flipping a devstack switch probably | 20:55 |
| mtreinish | clarkb: or in project-config | 20:55 |
| ttx | ok, need some time for open discussion, so we'll continue this one next week (or on the review in the mean time) | 20:56 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:56 | |
| amrith | ./ | 20:56 |
| mtreinish | clarkb: but it's a minimal change in code. It's more about tracking things and making it work. Which was kinda my point | 20:56 |
| flaper87 | patch updated | 20:56 |
| ttx | I announced the first PTG date/location (Atlanta, Feb 20-24, 2017) in a ML thread | 20:56 |
| clarkb | ya project-config might need to be edited to flip an env var, just pointing out python3 vs 2 isn't really something we care about when cloning git repos and collecting logs | 20:56 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-September/102981.html | 20:56 |
| flaper87 | ttx: w00h0000 | 20:56 |
| ttx | On the Design Summit side, it will soon be time to plan the cross-project workshop track | 20:56 |
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| ttx | Traditionally we had 7 time slots and used 3 parallel rooms | 20:56 |
| ttx | For this one, as sdague suggested we'll likely scale it back a little to preserve space for the "normal" sessions | 20:56 |
| ttx | i.e. use only 6 time slots instead of 7 (we can still use 3 rooms, or more if needed) | 20:57 |
| flaper87 | happy to help with that, btw! | 20:57 |
| ttx | does 6 time slots sound good ? | 20:57 |
| annegentle | #info PTG date/location (Atlanta, Feb 20-24, 2017) | 20:57 |
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| flaper87 | annegentle: +1 | 20:58 |
| sdague | ttx: honestly, I think we should see if we even have 6 x 3 sessions worth having | 20:58 |
| sdague | I feel like we got very mixed at the bottom of the list last time | 20:58 |
| fungi | i guess the minimal registration cost mentioned in the faq will have a specific number associated with it soon? | 20:58 |
| fungi | (ptg) | 20:58 |
| mtreinish | ttx: how does that effect scheduling. like how many sessions are there in a day? | 20:58 |
| amrith | ttx, I've put my questions into https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/gMPYW40Fmq and referenced it in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/342225/8/reference/tags/team_diverse-affiliation.rst; not sure if there's time to discuss here and now. | 20:58 |
| ttx | can be 6x (2 to 4 based on parallelization needs) | 20:58 |
| ttx | mtreinish: not sure I understand your question, but we can take it offline | 20:59 |
| ttx | flaper87: your patch is up ? | 20:59 |
| flaper87 | ttx: yup | 20:59 |
| annegentle | amrith you have a good point on change set nomenclature vs review | 20:59 |
| annegentle | vs patch set | 20:59 |
| ttx | Please rereview https://review.openstack.org/#/c/342225/ | 20:59 |
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| anteaya | annegentle: the gerrit wording is change and change set | 21:00 |
| ttx | If it gets to majority I'll just approve it, otherwise it will be back next week | 21:00 |
| annegentle | anteaya ah, good to know | 21:00 |
| anteaya | annegentle: patch review CR and others are socialization terms | 21:00 |
| amrith | ttx, to be clear, my question isn't a -1, rather a request to clarify. | 21:00 |
| ttx | and ... we are out of time | 21:00 |
| annegentle | wah | 21:00 |
| annegentle | :) kidding | 21:00 |
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| mtreinish | ttx: what's the diff between 6 session vs 7? Does that mean we have 1 non cross project session on the tues? I'm not sure I see what diff it makes | 21:00 |
| flaper87 | bye folks! | 21:00 |
| flaper87 | thanks everyone | 21:00 |
| sambetts | thanks :D | 21:00 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 6 21:00:53 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-09-06-20.01.html | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-09-06-20.01.txt | 21:00 |
| sdague | mtreinish: the xp sessions bleed into wed | 21:00 |
| ttx | mtreinish: -> #openstack-dev | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-09-06-20.01.log.html | 21:00 |
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| oneswig | Ready blairo? | 21:01 |
| b1airo | morning | 21:01 |
| oneswig | Take it away, Mr Music :-) | 21:01 |
| b1airo | #startmeeting scientific-wg | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 6 21:01:49 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is b1airo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'scientific_wg' | 21:01 |
| * anteaya pictures b1airo as Mr Music | 21:02 | |
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| oneswig | an easy picture! | 21:02 |
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| priteau | Good evening everyone | 21:02 |
| b1airo | heh, you happen to have that agenda handy oneswig ? | 21:02 |
| oneswig | Hello | 21:02 |
| oneswig | coming right up | 21:02 |
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| oneswig | #link agenda for today's meeting https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Scientific_working_group#IRC_Meeting_September_6th_2016 | 21:02 |
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| b1airo | and inline... | 21:03 |
| b1airo | WG activity space requested at the Barcelona summit. | 21:03 |
| b1airo | BoF for poster sessions and lightning talks | 21:03 |
| b1airo | Working group meeting for progress review and planning | 21:03 |
| b1airo | Possible venue for social (Thursday night) | 21:03 |
| b1airo | Supercomputing preparation | 21:03 |
| b1airo | Discussion topics for SC panel session | 21:03 |
| b1airo | Priority items for SC BoF (which was accepted!) | 21:03 |
| b1airo | Other business | 21:03 |
| b1airo | Diary date - OpenStack/HPC meetup in London on 1st December | 21:03 |
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| b1airo | Cloud-native applications for research computing - target list for App Ecosystem WG | 21:03 |
| b1airo | hmm sorry about the formatting | 21:04 |
| oneswig | Ah, forgot you preferred it that way | 21:04 |
| b1airo | #topic WG activity space requested at the Barcelona summit | 21:04 |
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| rbudden | hello | 21:04 |
| oneswig | I put in for two sessions but perhaps we should request another based on user-committee mails today | 21:04 |
| oneswig | Hi rbudden! | 21:04 |
| rbudden | sorry, i’m a tad late! | 21:05 |
| b1airo | o/ | 21:05 |
| oneswig | Question was whether we could get a BoF session together, and whether it would overspill one room into two | 21:05 |
| oneswig | No use if they are not close by though | 21:05 |
| b1airo | yeah | 21:05 |
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| b1airo | i'm not overly hopeful, sounds like things are gonna be tight | 21:06 |
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| oneswig | This session 2 weeks ago, martial suggested it might be good to bring posters - if anyone has one handy? | 21:06 |
| oneswig | blairo: it does. I'll ask anyway, we have 2 sessions reserved. | 21:07 |
| b1airo | i for one do not have any poster fodder readily available | 21:07 |
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| b1airo | but i suppose there is a chance we could create something as an artifact of our joint summit presentation... | 21:08 |
| b1airo | (...need to ping wojciech about that) | 21:08 |
| oneswig | Me neither but that's a good idea | 21:08 |
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| oneswig | Wojciech has tonsilitis, poor guy, will be offline for a few days | 21:09 |
| b1airo | nasty | 21:09 |
| oneswig | So don't expect an immediate response | 21:09 |
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| b1airo | i certainly like the idea of lightening talks in a scientific-wg bof | 21:09 |
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| oneswig | But a poster from the Lustre talk is a good idea, and talks are also good | 21:10 |
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| b1airo | anybody present keen to talk about their recent challenges and/or wins related to openstack for science/hpc ? | 21:10 |
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| b1airo | (in a lightening talk in barcelona) | 21:11 |
| jmlowe | maybe, I'll have to think of something | 21:11 |
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| oneswig | I'm happy to talk on either getting SRIOV devices configured in a TripleO deployment or configuring Dell BIOS using Ansible | 21:11 |
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| oneswig | ... been one crazy summer | 21:12 |
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| oneswig | Note as actions perhaps? | 21:12 |
| martial | (sorry I am late) | 21:12 |
| jmlowe | I might have something in lightening form to say about deploying 300 nodes using salt | 21:12 |
| b1airo | was thinking that but maybe let's hold it till a later date when we have more concrete details of summit sessions ? | 21:12 |
| b1airo | hi martial ! | 21:13 |
| b1airo | jmlowe, that sounds pretty interesting | 21:13 |
| b1airo | BM nodes? | 21:13 |
| priteau | I could give a quick presentation of the Blazar project and how we use it | 21:13 |
| b1airo | priteau, that would definitely be nice, i suspect a bunch of folks don't even know what it does | 21:14 |
| jmlowe | priteau: I'd go to that one | 21:14 |
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| oneswig | priteau: saw your UI today on chameleoncloud.org, looks good, I had no idea Blazar had that | 21:14 |
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| priteau | the Horizon support for Blazar that we have is half integration of two year old patches never merged, half own development | 21:16 |
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| oneswig | Patches that old, do they become like fine wine? | 21:16 |
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| b1airo | damn, australian access federation doesn't get me into chameleon | 21:17 |
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| b1airo | or mouldy cheese perhaps ? :-D | 21:17 |
| oneswig | OK it sounds like good enthusiasm for a lightning talk model right now, lets go with that and fill in the slots nearer the time | 21:17 |
| priteau | oneswig: some age better than others ;-) | 21:18 |
| rbudden | I may be able to do a lightning talk about using Ansible in conjunction with the Slurm prologue to allow Slurm reservations to automate the setup of Nova Compute/OVS for reserving traditional cluster nodes to host VMs/Containers | 21:18 |
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| priteau | b1airo: we're only federated with GENI so far | 21:18 |
| oneswig | rbudden: sounds good, what's the impact on job startup time? | 21:19 |
| jmlowe | b1airo: seems like AU/EU/US NSF federation should be a thing, especially with cloud resources | 21:19 |
| b1airo | rbudden, a sort of dynamic slurm? that sounds neat | 21:19 |
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| priteau | rbudden: I would be very interested to hear about this | 21:19 |
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| oneswig | All the more reason to attend the WG meeting then... | 21:20 |
| b1airo | we use slurm at monash but i'm not close enough to hpc queue admin-ing to have looked into existing slurm support for on-demand expansion/contraction of the cluster | 21:20 |
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| b1airo | is there such a thing already, or just the hooks? | 21:21 |
| rbudden | this is all in the early testing phases but we have a few non traditional use cases where we’ve had to spin up large quantities of VMs | 21:21 |
| rbudden | the idea was to have Slurm feed Ansible the requirements so we could metadata tag the nova hypervisors and auto create host aggregates for the user on demand | 21:22 |
| oneswig | The people at OSU use SLURM in a similar way IIRC, VMs are created for running each workload. Seems like hard work for the control plane if workloads are short lived? | 21:22 |
| oneswig | I think they do it to inject the inter-VM SHMEM gadget | 21:22 |
| rbudden | that way they could do a slurm reservation and within a few min have the resources just show up inside the dashboard and have proper flavors associated with the nodes | 21:22 |
| oneswig | rbudden: so you salloc in slurm and nova instances are created? Ooh. | 21:23 |
| b1airo | rbudden, ahh with you now, interesting, catering to "i want my own environment / i need root" hpc users | 21:23 |
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| rbudden | yep, exactly | 21:24 |
| rbudden | we use slurm for all our accounting, so it makes it easy to charge since the reservation is tied to a project/charge-id | 21:24 |
| b1airo | i would be very interested to see how that turns out, we have some of those cases here too | 21:24 |
| b1airo | grumble grumble bioinformaticians | 21:25 |
| oneswig | How does slurm know how many resources are available to it, and what happens when someone else uses them? | 21:25 |
| b1airo | of course, giving them a chunk of a parallel filesystem securely is another challenge | 21:26 |
| rbudden | we have slurm tied in with pam, so only admins and users who have an active job/servervation can login to the nodes they have been given | 21:26 |
| rbudden | b1airo: yes, filesystem access is complicated | 21:27 |
| rbudden | the majority of our VMs right now are gateway type workloads and they want access to distributed filesystems of Bridges | 21:28 |
| rbudden | so they don’t get root on those ;) | 21:28 |
| oneswig | We probably ought to move on? | 21:28 |
| b1airo | fair enough! | 21:28 |
| rbudden | eventually they can on our Slash2 filesystem because i’ll be implementing ticket based auth | 21:28 |
| rbudden | so that trust is not at the client level | 21:29 |
| b1airo | rbudden, how modern! :-) | 21:29 |
| rbudden | feel free to ping offline if ppl want to banter about it ;) | 21:29 |
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| oneswig | rbudden: might just do that | 21:30 |
| rbudden | :) | 21:30 |
| b1airo | yeah this sort of area would be good delve into more detail on | 21:30 |
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| b1airo | #action: take PFS auth discussion to mailing list | 21:30 |
| b1airo | #help | 21:31 |
| oneswig | Is anyone hungry? | 21:31 |
| b1airo | hmm meetbot may have gone awry | 21:31 |
| b1airo | yeah, last dot point here was drinks/dinner in barcelona | 21:31 |
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| oneswig | #link Possible candidate for Thursday evening in Barcelona - after Blair's talk - http://www.asadordearanda.net/en | 21:32 |
| oneswig | recommended by a former workmate who is an occasion local | 21:32 |
| rbudden | i’m hungry now | 21:33 |
| oneswig | It's under 5km from the conference venue, 8 stops on the metro. Could fit the bill | 21:33 |
| oneswig | I checked today, they have room for 30 :-) | 21:33 |
| jmlowe | I do have one concern, I'm not planning on bringing much if any cash, so if they are more friendly to a big pile of credit cards than the place in Austin was that would be good | 21:33 |
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| oneswig | jmlowe: hard to know, European places might be more open to it, cash is less prevalent than card AFAIK | 21:34 |
| b1airo | they have a bunch of set group menu options for ~45 euro / head | 21:35 |
| oneswig | Yes, thats' for something pretty big, I was reckoning on a course from the basic menu and some beer or wine... | 21:36 |
| martial | all of it sounds very nice so far :) | 21:36 |
| jmlowe | we did that at a Lebanese restaurant with a smaller group in Vancouver, it was great | 21:36 |
| priteau | oneswig: They have three venus in Barcelona, which one did you have in mind? | 21:37 |
| oneswig | jmlowe: sounds ideal. | 21:37 |
| oneswig | Calle ...err ... holdon | 21:37 |
| rbudden | jmlowe: yes, that was fun indeed | 21:37 |
| oneswig | Pau Claris | 21:37 |
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| b1airo | Vancouver was so far the winning summit for beer | 21:37 |
| b1airo | IMHO | 21:38 |
| rbudden | they did have good beer | 21:38 |
| b1airo | gotta get the basics right! | 21:38 |
| rbudden | gelatto was amazing too | 21:38 |
| priteau | http://www.asadordearanda.net/en/content/barcelona-pau-claris | 21:39 |
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| oneswig | Nearer the time, I might need to get a head count to ensure the booking's within a power of 10 | 21:40 |
| b1airo | lol | 21:40 |
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| b1airo | i assume it's just like Ceph PGs, round up to the nearest power of 2 ? | 21:40 |
| oneswig | Tell that to the maitre d', he'll love it | 21:40 |
| b1airo | i'd prefer to leave with my teeth intact | 21:41 |
| oneswig | lol indeed! | 21:41 |
| b1airo | #topic Supercomputing preparation | 21:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Supercomputing preparation (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)" | 21:41 | |
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| b1airo | firstly, our BOF was accepted - w00t! | 21:42 |
| oneswig | excellent! | 21:42 |
| rbudden | nice | 21:42 |
| oneswig | Does anyone know which days the panel and bof are? | 21:42 |
| jmlowe | Pannel is Thursday? | 21:42 |
| rbudden | panel is thursday at 3:30-5pm | 21:42 |
| oneswig | jmlowe: do you have a link to it? | 21:42 |
| b1airo | yeah that's right for panel, not sure the BOF timing is set yet though | 21:42 |
| jmlowe | checking.... | 21:43 |
| rbudden | http://sc16.supercomputing.org/presentation/?id=pan127&sess=sess184 | 21:43 |
| martial | really sweet on the BOF :) | 21:43 |
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| jmlowe | http://sc16.supercomputing.org/presentation/?id=bof180&sess=sess361 | 21:43 |
| b1airo | ah there it is! | 21:44 |
| oneswig | Wonderful, thanks jmlowe rbudden | 21:44 |
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| b1airo | i thought we take a moment to brain-dump some discussion points for the SC panel that might help get things underway | 21:47 |
| oneswig | It's an interesting one, who's a typical attendee? Cloud skeptics will probably steer clear. | 21:48 |
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| oneswig | In writing this study, I've learned some interesting capabilities I didn't know about what can be achieved in OpenStack. Do you think this is an infrastructure-level discussion or higher level? | 21:50 |
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| b1airo | i think if we get it right it will range higher level down to infrastructure and back to "business" level again | 21:51 |
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| b1airo | #link SC16 panel brainstorm etherpad - https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/scientificwg-SC16-panel | 21:52 |
| oneswig | Good plan, I'll keep thinking on it in the background | 21:53 |
| b1airo | excellent | 21:54 |
| oneswig | Next item? | 21:54 |
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| b1airo | #topic AOB | 21:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "AOB (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)" | 21:55 | |
| b1airo | london meetup oneswig ? | 21:55 |
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| oneswig | I had one item - limited use in this group - London meetup for HPC / OpenStack is now 1st December | 21:56 |
| oneswig | Sponsored by Mellanox | 21:56 |
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| b1airo | we're having an OpenStack Australia Government Day here soon - http://australiaday.openstack.org.au/ | 21:56 |
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| oneswig | This is selling to Government or government of OpenStack?? | 21:57 |
| b1airo | haha | 21:57 |
| b1airo | yeah i think it's more aptira selling to government | 21:58 |
| b1airo | or hoping to anyway | 21:58 |
| oneswig | Turns out the UK gov likes OpenStack, why not AU... | 21:59 |
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| b1airo | i have no idea where gov is at with private/hybrid cloud, but to complicate matters we have federal and state govs with separate practices and departmental guidelines | 22:00 |
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| oneswig | OK we are out of time alas, | 22:00 |
| oneswig | I am left wondering why they chose an image with no clouds in it... | 22:00 |
| b1airo | little bit silly with states of ~6-7 million ppl at most | 22:00 |
| oneswig | So typical of Australia | 22:01 |
| oneswig | :-) | 22:01 |
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| b1airo | i will turn to my NZ citizenship at this point | 22:01 |
| b1airo | ;-) | 22:01 |
| oneswig | Got to go, thanks all | 22:01 |
| jmlowe | pleasure as always | 22:01 |
| rbudden | thanks | 22:01 |
| b1airo | thanks folks! | 22:01 |
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| b1airo | #endmeeting | 22:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 6 22:02:07 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-09-06-21.01.html | 22:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-09-06-21.01.txt | 22:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-09-06-21.01.log.html | 22:02 |
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| priteau | bye everyone | 22:02 |
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