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| andreykurilin | #startmeeting Rally | 14:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Sep 12 14:04:25 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is andreykurilin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 14:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'rally' | 14:04 |
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| rvasilets__ | Hi | 14:04 |
| andreykurilin | hi all | 14:04 |
| astarove | hi | 14:05 |
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| amaretskiy | hi | 14:06 |
| andreykurilin | #topic future of optional-requirements | 14:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "future of optional-requirements (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 14:07 | |
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| andreykurilin | we added optional-requirements long time ago to cover those libraries which we could not be added to main requirements due to global-requirements | 14:07 |
| andreykurilin | Currently we can add whatever we want libraries to our main requirements.txt | 14:08 |
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| andreykurilin | and all such requirements will be handled by intallation of `pip` | 14:08 |
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| amaretskiy | we could remove them at all and care about missing clients in runtime | 14:08 |
| andreykurilin | From this point of view, optional-requirements is redundant | 14:09 |
| andreykurilin | amaretskiy: it is already done | 14:09 |
| andreykurilin | in required_client validator | 14:09 |
| rvasilets__ | Does we need to use optional-requirement before\after we cut the release? | 14:10 |
| rvasilets__ | because openstack requirements | 14:10 |
| rvasilets__ | *because of global- requirements to the projects | 14:10 |
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| andreykurilin | rvasilets__: it doesn't relate to release at all | 14:11 |
| andreykurilin | :) | 14:11 |
| andreykurilin | and we are not depend on global-requirements any more | 14:11 |
| rvasilets__ | Okey, do we have side effect of removing them at all?) | 14:11 |
| andreykurilin | rvasilets__: sure :) | 14:11 |
| andreykurilin | So if we just remove optional-requirements without moving them to requirements.txt, we will miss ability to say waht client version we support and which not | 14:12 |
| rvasilets__ | Sure, after moving optional-requirements into requirements is there other problems|steps to remove optional-requirements?) | 14:14 |
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| amaretskiy | how about moving all clients from requirements.txt and optional-requiremets.txt into openstack-requirements.txt | 14:15 |
| andreykurilin | one more problem: for example, we have fuelclient in our optional-requirements. And it doesn't support Python 3. If we move it to main requirements it will be great step back for Rally | 14:15 |
| andreykurilin | amaretskiy: as far as I know, pip cares about only requirements.txt | 14:16 |
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| amaretskiy | i have no idea, let's keep this as-is | 14:16 |
| rvasilets__ | hm? maybe for the projects like fuel we will left them?) | 14:16 |
| rvasilets__ | s/hm?/hm, | 14:17 |
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| andreykurilin | rvasilets__: yes. we should. So my proposal to decide for what purpose we will use optional-requirements in future | 14:17 |
| andreykurilin | and let's save this decision at the top of optional-requirements | 14:18 |
| rvasilets__ | Oh? now I see | 14:18 |
| andreykurilin | for me, first rule: if package doesn't support the same python versions as Rally project, it should be added only in optional-requirements | 14:18 |
| amaretskiy | #agree | 14:19 |
| andreykurilin | rvasilets__ your vote:) | 14:19 |
| rvasilets__ | agree with this rule, is it the only one?) | 14:19 |
| andreykurilin | I have one more:) | 14:20 |
| andreykurilin | rule #2: if package doesn't have releases, it is hard to manage dependencies, so it should be added to optional-requirements | 14:20 |
| amaretskiy | #agree | 14:21 |
| rvasilets__ | agree | 14:21 |
| andreykurilin | nice | 14:21 |
| andreykurilin | I have no more ideas :) | 14:21 |
| rvasilets__ | Will we left clients in requirements? | 14:22 |
| andreykurilin | yes | 14:22 |
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| rvasilets__ | Okey, packages that are not maintained by global-requirements | 14:23 |
| rvasilets__ | Does they go into optional or into requirements? | 14:23 |
| andreykurilin | rvasilets__: when you finish refactoring validators, we will be able to move rally/plugins/openstack to separate repo and all not rally-framework requirements will move there | 14:23 |
| rvasilets__ | оО | 14:24 |
| rvasilets__ | ) | 14:24 |
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| rvasilets__ | More repos) | 14:24 |
| rvasilets__ | Okey | 14:24 |
| andreykurilin | rvasilets__: about "packages that are not maintained by global-requirements". we abandoned g-r to be able to add more packages to our requirements.txt | 14:24 |
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| rvasilets__ | Okey, its clear | 14:25 |
| andreykurilin | any other ideas? | 14:25 |
| rvasilets__ | No, I think that we don't need them for now) | 14:25 |
| rvasilets__ | I mean new ideas) | 14:25 |
| andreykurilin | ok, we have agreement about two rules and it is good | 14:25 |
| andreykurilin | I'll propose a patch soon | 14:25 |
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| andreykurilin | oh... | 14:26 |
| andreykurilin | I have another rule to discuss | 14:26 |
| andreykurilin | :) | 14:26 |
| rvasilets__ | Need to write those rules somewhere | 14:26 |
| rvasilets__ | in the docs | 14:26 |
| andreykurilin | rvasilets__: I'll add rules at the top of optional-requirements | 14:26 |
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| rvasilets__ | Great! | 14:26 |
| andreykurilin | so it will like description of purpose of "optional-requirments" | 14:27 |
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| andreykurilin | Another topic to discuss/rule . What we should do we clients who doesn't support keystone v3 ? should it be handled just by validators `required_services("keystone": "2")` or we should move such clients to optional-requirements too ? | 14:28 |
| rvasilets__ | Lets left them in requirements with others | 14:29 |
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| rvasilets__ | I think that this is the problems of "operators" to configure cloud in right way) | 14:29 |
| amaretskiy | handle by validators looks enough | 14:30 |
| astarove | are requirements will contain description for PIPpackages? | 14:30 |
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| rvasilets__ | No, setup.py contains it | 14:30 |
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| astarove | <andreykurilin> and all such requirements will be handled by intallation of `pip` | 14:31 |
| astarove | is it true? | 14:31 |
| rvasilets__ | *setup.cfg | 14:31 |
| astarove | probably `required_services("keystone": "2")` is good enouth? | 14:32 |
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| andreykurilin | ok, let's use required services for this purpose | 14:35 |
| andreykurilin | anything else? | 14:35 |
| rvasilets__ | No | 14:36 |
| andreykurilin | okay, let's finish meeting | 14:36 |
| andreykurilin | #endmeeting | 14:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:36 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Sep 12 14:36:22 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:36 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2016/rally.2016-09-12-14.04.html | 14:36 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2016/rally.2016-09-12-14.04.txt | 14:36 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2016/rally.2016-09-12-14.04.log.html | 14:36 |
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| anteaya | #startmeeting third-party | 15:10 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Sep 12 15:10:29 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:10 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 15:10 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 15:10 |
| anteaya | hello hello | 15:10 |
| eantyshev | Hello! | 15:10 |
| wznoinsk | hi | 15:10 |
| anteaya | I don't know why I always seem to get distracted at 2 minutes to 15:00 | 15:10 |
| anteaya | sorry about that | 15:10 |
| anteaya | how are you today? | 15:10 |
| eantyshev | Very well, thank you! | 15:11 |
| mmedvede | o/ | 15:11 |
| anteaya | great | 15:11 |
| anteaya | does anyone have anything they would like to discuss today? | 15:11 |
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| anteaya | I'm not hearing any topics folks would like to discuss | 15:12 |
| eantyshev | get past of my issues with Jenkins version, having the review for that: https://review.openstack.org/367232 | 15:12 |
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| eantyshev | reviewers welcome, but it is rather trivial | 15:12 |
| anteaya | eantyshev: thank you for sharing that | 15:13 |
| eantyshev | so my question is: who is the right person to ask for review for puppet changes? | 15:14 |
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| anteaya | ummmm, well EmilienM is a good puppet person | 15:14 |
| anteaya | but he is also very busy | 15:15 |
| EmilienM | hello | 15:15 |
| anteaya | hey EmilienM | 15:15 |
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| anteaya | we were just discussing who is a good reviewer for puppet changes | 15:15 |
| EmilienM | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/367232/ is about Infra | 15:15 |
| EmilienM | I can review it but i'm not the best person | 15:15 |
| anteaya | who might be? | 15:15 |
| EmilienM | I would rather ask nibalizer | 15:15 |
| anteaya | thank you | 15:15 |
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| anteaya | eantyshev: he isn't around much these days but try to find nibalizer | 15:16 |
| eantyshev | thank you, will try | 15:16 |
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| anteaya | thank you for the patches | 15:16 |
| anteaya | anyone have any other comments on eantyshev's patch (and dependency)? | 15:16 |
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| anteaya | does anyone have any other topic they would like to discuss? | 15:18 |
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| anteaya | does anyone have any objection to me closing the meeting? | 15:19 |
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| wznoinsk | I'm just interested is anyone else thinking of switching to using infra's CI suite | 15:19 |
| anteaya | from what to what? | 15:19 |
| mmedvede | wznoinsk: what do you mean by "infra CI suite" | 15:19 |
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| wznoinsk | mmedvede: zuul/nodepool | 15:20 |
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| eantyshev | wznoinsk: I tried to substitute zuul-launcher, but couldn't make it work with any version of JJB, and gave in | 15:21 |
| mmedvede | wznoinsk: oh, you mean jenkinsless setup. I am no switching until my back is to the wall :) Just not enough time to be living on the edge, waiting until zuulv3 is somewhat stable | 15:23 |
| mordred | yah - the intent from our side is that nobody use zuul 2.5 other than us | 15:23 |
| mordred | we did _no_ work to make it usable by other humans - it's a short-term hack to get us out of the woods | 15:23 |
| fungi | or rather, that we don't have the bandwidth to support its use | 15:23 |
| mordred | yah | 15:23 |
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| wznoinsk | mmedvede: yes, was wondering whether ppl would go for v3 too | 15:23 |
| mordred | now v3 ... that we hope for everyone to use | 15:24 |
| fungi | i mean, we won't stop others from trying to use it, but we don't plan for it to be a stable interface since it's being replaced in zuul v3 | 15:24 |
| mordred | ++ | 15:24 |
| wznoinsk | I have 2.1.1 and not sure will I switch to the jenkins-less one soon either, it's not hugely painful atm | 15:24 |
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| anteaya | wznoinsk: if you have something that works, keep it | 15:25 |
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| fungi | basically, _we_ needed to stop using jenkins for a variety of reasons (some lingering, some more urgent), so zuul-launcher in zuul 2.5 was the solution for us to be able to do that. but we don't intend to use that solution once zuul v3 is ready (though the solution in v3 has some resemblance to it) | 15:25 |
| mmedvede | I can not wait to get off jenkins though :) | 15:25 |
| fungi | so in short, if your need to drop jenkins and continue using zuul is urgent, zuul-launcher might also be the answer for you, but... if it breaks you get to keep both pieces | 15:26 |
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| fungi | it's possible avoiding documenting it wasn't the right way to indicate it's unsupported, and explicitly declaring in documentation that it's an experimental feature we don't plan to retain would have been a little clearer | 15:27 |
| wznoinsk | what's the issues with jenkis you see? | 15:27 |
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| mordred | wznoinsk: stability, security | 15:28 |
| mmedvede | not question to me, but I think jenkins is too complicated/heavy for what it is doing. | 15:28 |
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| mordred | wznoinsk: like, we _cannot_ run jenkins because the webui is unsuitable at this point for directly being on the internet and that's important for us | 15:29 |
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| mordred | wznoinsk: additionally, over the past few years we've had major issues everytime a security vuln has forced us to upgrade | 15:29 |
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| mordred | finally, it's just a thing that remotely executes shell scripts for us | 15:30 |
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| fungi | in particular, lack of sufficient security for running jenkins in the open on the internet and not in an isolated internal network is what pushed us to make zuul-launcher when we did, though being able to stop worrying about twice weekly reboots of all our jenkins masters was nice too | 15:30 |
| mordred | and is massive overkill for that task, especially considering its stability and security issues | 15:30 |
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| mordred | however, it's worth noting that we've been working slowly towards getting rid of jenkins in the system for several years - the recent 2.5 release was really a quick reaction to the escalated security issue, and was largely made possible because we were already close to ready to be done with it anyway | 15:31 |
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| mordred | so it's not like we had an issue a few months ago and thought completely from scratch "oh, we should replace this" :) | 15:32 |
| wznoinsk | yeah, I could imagine being the subject of all the vulnerabilities and changes you get with different jenkins releases compared to the fact what you actually get out of it I can understand why to look into a simpler/own solution | 15:32 |
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| mordred | wznoinsk: you said that much more succinctly than I did :) | 15:33 |
| wznoinsk | ok, it's clear in my head now then, thanks | 15:34 |
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| mordred | \o/ | 15:35 |
| anteaya | thank you for asking the question wznoinsk | 15:35 |
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| anteaya | thanks mordred and fungi for participating on short notice | 15:35 |
| anteaya | any more on this topic? | 15:36 |
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| anteaya | any other topics folks would like to discuss today? | 15:37 |
| anteaya | any objection to me closing the meeting today? | 15:38 |
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| anteaya | thank you all for attending and participating today | 15:38 |
| anteaya | enjoy the rest of your day/evening | 15:38 |
| anteaya | see you all next week | 15:39 |
| anteaya | #endmeeting | 15:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:39 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Sep 12 15:39:07 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:39 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-09-12-15.10.html | 15:39 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-09-12-15.10.txt | 15:39 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-09-12-15.10.log.html | 15:39 |
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| matjazp | #startmeeting training-guides | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Sep 12 17:00:35 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is matjazp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| matjazp | hey all | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: training-guides)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'training_guides' | 17:00 |
| matjazp | roll call | 17:00 |
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| ianychoi | hi, matjazp ! | 17:02 |
| matjazp | anyone here for the meeting? | 17:03 |
| matjazp | hey ianychoi | 17:03 |
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| matjazp | #link Agenda at https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/training-guides-meeting-agenda | 17:03 |
| diablo_rojo_phon | Hello | 17:03 |
| matjazp | hey diablo_rojo_phon | 17:03 |
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| ianychoi | Hello, diablo_rojo_phon ! | 17:04 |
| matjazp | #topic Review of action items from the previous meeting | 17:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review of action items from the previous meeting (Meeting topic: training-guides)" | 17:04 | |
| matjazp | see meeting minutes at http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/training_guides/2016/training_guides.2016-09-05-17.00.html | 17:04 |
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| matjazp | aha, ianychoi has a patch for this in queue, if I'm not mistaken | 17:05 |
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| matjazp | so nothing to review here, we'll do patches later | 17:06 |
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| matjazp | #topic Upstream training | 17:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Upstream training (Meeting topic: training-guides)" | 17:06 | |
| ianychoi | Yep, I have just seen your +1 review, thanks matjazp ! | 17:06 |
| matjazp | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/upstream-university-improvements | 17:06 |
| matjazp | #info Upstream training virtual sprint September 12-13 and 16: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/VirtualSprints#Upstream_training_Sprint | 17:06 |
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| matjazp | Review queue: | 17:07 |
| matjazp | DONE: Remove rejoin-stack.sh from the Devstack slides: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/366316/ | 17:07 |
| matjazp | still need eyes on: | 17:07 |
| matjazp | Improvements to the contribution process section: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/366255/ | 17:07 |
| diablo_rojo_phon | Thank you! | 17:07 |
| matjazp | #link Improvements to the contribution process section: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/366255/ | 17:08 |
| matjazp | #link New introduction block: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/366893/ | 17:08 |
| matjazp | #link Add #openstack-101 to meetbot channels: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/367005/ | 17:08 |
| matjazp | did I miss something? | 17:09 |
| matjazp | oh, right, gerrit workflow reorder | 17:09 |
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| matjazp | diablo_rojo_phon: I think the order is fine as is | 17:09 |
| matjazp | diablo_rojo_phon: why do you think it should be different? | 17:09 |
| matjazp | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/368889/ | 17:09 |
| diablo_rojo_phon | It's different than the normal workflow. | 17:11 |
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| diablo_rojo_phon | Or mine anyway. | 17:11 |
| matjazp | ianychoi: can you look at it and comment? Do you work differently? | 17:11 |
| matjazp | diablo_rojo_phon: true, it could be different.. but as it is the same as http://docs.openstack.org/infra/manual/developers.html#development-workflow, I think we should leave it? what do you think? | 17:12 |
| diablo_rojo_phon | I do work differently. Not sure why you'd ask people to review before pushing the patch. | 17:12 |
| matjazp | not review, just setup | 17:12 |
| diablo_rojo_phon | But if it's just me I can abandon it. | 17:12 |
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| matjazp | diablo_rojo_phon: no, lets just leave it and we can gather some more comments | 17:12 |
| diablo_rojo_phon | Okay sounds good. | 17:13 |
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| matjazp | revamping module 19 is nearly finished, right? | 17:14 |
| ianychoi | IMO it doesn't matter | 17:14 |
| ianychoi | Executing "git review -s" just before "git commit" would be fine | 17:14 |
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| diablo_rojo_phon | It's in progress. I just need to add exercises. | 17:15 |
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| matjazp | ianychoi: yes it would. I see git review -s as a part of the git repo clone process.. so the inner loop is different (modify, add, commit, review) | 17:16 |
| matjazp | diablo_rojo_phon: do you think you can add exercises in a separate patch? | 17:16 |
| matjazp | does it make sense? | 17:17 |
| matjazp | I'm telling this because I prefer smaller patches | 17:17 |
| diablo_rojo_phon | Yeah it will be a separate patch. | 17:18 |
| ianychoi | diablo_rojo_phon, I would suggest in module 14 to add 1) run tox instead of unit tests 2) git review before "invite reviewers" 3) leaving a comment before exercise.. | 17:18 |
| matjazp | but it can go in one if you prefer | 17:18 |
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| matjazp | ianychoi: don't forget to comment in gerrit ;) | 17:18 |
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| ianychoi | matjazp, sure :) | 17:19 |
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| ianychoi | diablo_rojo_phon, I can do it if you agree with me, of course | 17:19 |
| matjazp | so the focus of current virtual sprint is still contribution and intro, right? | 17:21 |
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| matjazp | btw: we didn't use RST "code-block" for console commands in upstream training, but I think it is better that we switch to it. For larger code blocks we would need to fix font size | 17:23 |
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| matjazp | what do you think? | 17:25 |
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| ianychoi | I agree with matjazp | 17:26 |
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| matjazp | ok, moving on | 17:27 |
| ianychoi | Hmm.. okay | 17:27 |
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| matjazp | #info we use ".. code-block:: console" for console commands in slides | 17:28 |
| matjazp | I have another pain point to discuss | 17:28 |
| matjazp | Trainees can loose track of the slide deck that the presenter is showing on screen (when using full screen view, URL is usually not visible) | 17:29 |
| matjazp | We could additionally generate one slide deck with all the slides (in PDF format?), so trainees can just sync with slide numbers? | 17:29 |
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| ianychoi | Hmm.. recently I am doing some research on using rst2pdf | 17:30 |
| matjazp | ianychoi: yes, that was the trigger that reminded me of this issue | 17:30 |
| ianychoi | I am not currently sure whether PDF slides are fine with rst2pdf. | 17:30 |
| ianychoi | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/364477/ | 17:30 |
| ianychoi | I have proposed it as the next goal :) | 17:31 |
| matjazp | I see | 17:31 |
| matjazp | hmm, we could easily generate a single all-slides deck | 17:31 |
| matjazp | or, as an alternative, presenter could deliberately leave URL bar visible | 17:32 |
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| matjazp | ok, for this sprint, we still concentrate on common items and code contribution | 17:34 |
| matjazp | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/upstream-uni-common-items | 17:34 |
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| matjazp | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/upstream-uni-code-contribution | 17:34 |
| matjazp | just mark what are you working on so that we dont duplicate effort | 17:35 |
| matjazp | is there anything else that needs discuccing here? | 17:35 |
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| matjazp | discuccing=discussing | 17:36 |
| diablo_rojo_phon | Sorry was in another meeting. I can make the Gerrit changes here shortly. | 17:36 |
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| matjazp | diablo_rojo_phon: np. you need anything else to discuss for upstream training? | 17:36 |
| ianychoi | diablo_rojo_phon, okay I see | 17:37 |
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| matjazp | move on to aob? | 17:39 |
| diablo_rojo_phon | No I don't think so. If anyone had ideas they'd like to see for code contribution exercises let me know :) | 17:39 |
| ianychoi | Actually today and tomorrow are sprints day. | 17:39 |
| ianychoi | So I encourage us to use #openstack-sprint channel for today and tomorrow :) | 17:39 |
| matjazp | ok | 17:40 |
| matjazp | #topic any other business | 17:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "any other business (Meeting topic: training-guides)" | 17:41 | |
| matjazp | anything left to discuss? | 17:41 |
| ianychoi | I have one for discussion: What would be a good name for openstack-dev/sandbox launchpad ? | 17:41 |
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| matjazp | lauchpad? you mean lounchpad project? | 17:42 |
| ianychoi | The name should be like https://launchpad.net/openstack-dev-sandbox ? | 17:42 |
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| matjazp | its ok | 17:42 |
| matjazp | it should be as close to the repo name as possible | 17:42 |
| matjazp | so +1 for this | 17:43 |
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| ianychoi | Okay I see. Then I will try to make and correlate this launchpad with openstack-dev/sandbox repository :) | 17:43 |
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| matjazp | ok | 17:44 |
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| matjazp | anything else? or do we wrap it up? | 17:45 |
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| ianychoi | For me, that's all | 17:45 |
| matjazp | #action ianychoi create openstack-dev/sandbox launchpad project | 17:46 |
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| matjazp | diablo_rojo_phon: you? | 17:46 |
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| ianychoi | #action ianychoi s/openstack-dev\/sandbox/openstack-dev/sandbox | 17:47 |
| ianychoi | #action ianychoi s/openstack-dev\/sandbox/openstack-dev-sandbox | 17:47 |
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| matjazp | ianychoi: you can use #undo, for last item | 17:47 |
| matjazp | if you mistype it | 17:48 |
| ianychoi | matjazp, Aha.. I forgot it, thanks! | 17:48 |
| matjazp | more action items for you :) | 17:48 |
| matjazp | ok, let's wrap this | 17:48 |
| ianychoi | Oops....... kkk | 17:48 |
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| ianychoi | yep thank you, matjazp and diablo_rojo_phon ! | 17:49 |
| matjazp | thanks for attending | 17:49 |
| matjazp | and thanks for contributing! | 17:49 |
| matjazp | see you next week | 17:49 |
| matjazp | bye ianychoi diablo_rojo_phon | 17:49 |
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| matjazp | #endmeeting | 17:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:49 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Sep 12 17:49:50 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:49 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/training_guides/2016/training_guides.2016-09-12-17.00.html | 17:49 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/training_guides/2016/training_guides.2016-09-12-17.00.txt | 17:49 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/training_guides/2016/training_guides.2016-09-12-17.00.log.html | 17:49 |
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| Patifa | #startmeeting app_ecosystem_wg | 22:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Sep 12 22:00:09 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Patifa. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 22:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: app_ecosystem_wg)" | 22:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'app_ecosystem_wg' | 22:00 |
| Patifa | Hello everyone | 22:00 |
| docaedo | Hello! | 22:00 |
| Patifa | Agenda can be found on our etherpad https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/2016_Sep_12_App_Ecosystem_Workgroup | 22:00 |
| Patifa | Let's get started | 22:00 |
| topol | Hi, can I add an agenda item at the bottom of the etehrpad? | 22:00 |
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| Patifa | #topic rollcall | 22:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: app_ecosystem_wg)" | 22:01 | |
| Patifa | topol sure! | 22:01 |
| topol | o/ | 22:01 |
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| craigs | o/ | 22:02 |
| topol | o/ | 22:02 |
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| Patifa | ok, welcome everyone | 22:02 |
| Patifa | #topic WG Chair | 22:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "WG Chair (Meeting topic: app_ecosystem_wg)" | 22:02 | |
| Patifa | As most of you know Michael left the WG and we're looking into getting a new co-chair. | 22:03 |
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| Patifa | Flanders is helping reach out to other companies to see if we can find a good name. | 22:03 |
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| Patifa | We've already contacted RedHat | 22:04 |
| docaedo | what's a co-chair need to do? I could make time to help more with this | 22:04 |
| docaedo | (and I'm not at HP or Intel so it'd be a chance of pace!) | 22:04 |
| Patifa | Organize meetings | 22:04 |
| Patifa | That would be a lovely change of pace... | 22:05 |
| docaedo | that's a short list! | 22:05 |
| docaedo | (short list of things the co-chair would need to do) .. I would have weighed in last week but trip to china and resulting jetlag took its toll | 22:05 |
| Patifa | I believe the main role is to help drive the execution of what ever the WG needs to deliver | 22:06 |
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| Patifa | Also help shape the direction group wants to go.. | 22:07 |
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| Rockyg | o/ | 22:07 |
| docaedo | well I'm pretty committed to making "apps on openstack" a thing, so I'll volunteer myself to be a co-chair with you Patifa | 22:08 |
| topol | docaedo ++ :-) | 22:08 |
| Patifa | Maria Bracho from Red Hat is also interested. | 22:08 |
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| docaedo | though there should be some voting probably, and hopefully a secret initiation ceremony somewhere | 22:08 |
| docaedo | Not really sure how we're running this working group when it comes to such things :) | 22:09 |
| Patifa | I like the idea of voting. | 22:09 |
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| Patifa | #action Patifa contact possible candidates | 22:09 |
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| Rockyg | docaedo, ++ | 22:09 |
| Patifa | #action Patifa start voting process | 22:10 |
| * docaedo gets to work on his campaign slogan | 22:10 | |
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| Patifa | any ideas on how we do the voting process? Mailing list? | 22:10 |
| * topol make apps on openstack great again | 22:10 | |
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| docaedo | topol: hahaha I was just typing that!! | 22:11 |
| docaedo | Patifa: mailing list sounds good to me | 22:11 |
| Rockyg | mailing list to advertise, the voting in meeting, plus proxies | 22:11 |
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| Patifa | besides stealing questionable slogans... | 22:11 |
| Patifa | and voting in a call meeting or IRC meeting? | 22:12 |
| Patifa | next one is a call meeting... | 22:12 |
| docaedo | I would say just email - anyone who cares will respond | 22:12 |
| csterret_ | we could just use a doodle | 22:13 |
| Rockyg | if you advertise today, you could vote next meeting, but otherwise, second meeting. | 22:13 |
| reed | a doodle for what? I don't follow | 22:13 |
| csterret_ | vote | 22:13 |
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| Patifa | vote for the new co chair | 22:13 |
| Rockyg | one week for nominations, then at least a couple days before vote | 22:13 |
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| Patifa | I want to give more time for new candidates to show up | 22:14 |
| reed | there is a vote system on IRC | 22:14 |
| reed | #vote | 22:14 |
| reed | or condorcet... but are there more than one candidate? :) | 22:14 |
| Patifa | There are 2 ATM... still talking to other companies to see if new names show up | 22:14 |
| anteaya | why does the working group need two chairs? | 22:15 |
| reed | http://docs.openstack.org/infra/system-config/irc.html#voting | 22:15 |
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| docaedo | so the new people - are they ones that have been involved with this working group, or is this an effort to sort of "reboot" the group by bringing in new folks? | 22:15 |
| Rockyg | condorcet's a bit heavy for this purpose | 22:16 |
| Patifa | I want to have 2 chairs to reduce the change of downtime when one is too busy. the other one is to help reboot this.. increase corporate diversity | 22:16 |
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| docaedo | sounds like a good plan | 22:17 |
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| anteaya | why don't you just start by asking for a volunteer to help increase attendance and participation in the working group? | 22:17 |
| anteaya | if that is the goal | 22:17 |
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| csterret_ | Any volunteers? | 22:18 |
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| Rockyg | docaedo? | 22:19 |
| Patifa | anteaya do you see any problems if we have 2 chairs? | 22:19 |
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| reed | for what exactly? at this point, I don't see any tasks I or others at DreamHost can help with | 22:19 |
| docaedo | reed: I think the bigger issue is to clarify the mission and start putting better action points to it | 22:19 |
| reed | until a while ago the focus was on the first app tutorial... nowadays I don't know what we need to work on | 22:20 |
| anteaya | Patifa: there is no problem, I was just wondering what the goal was | 22:20 |
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| maeca1 | increasing attendance is not something that can be done alone. A co-chair can help drive the effort and add activities that will increase participation, but the group can add ideas as well | 22:20 |
| Patifa | docaedo you're right. | 22:20 |
| docaedo | polishing a bunch of guides for different languages was great, but we definitely need more clarity on the path ahead, and the goal (as I understand it) is to build the ecosystem of humans developing apps on OpenStack | 22:20 |
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| reed | the hackatons are not very interesting for dreamhost frankly, unless they happen in North America | 22:21 |
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| clarkb | reed: I think the most recent one was in north america? | 22:21 |
| reed | clarkb, you're right :) | 22:21 |
| docaedo | reed: the hackathons are just one part, but certainly dreamhost would be interested in some in the states? | 22:21 |
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| Patifa | reed one of the goals for Barcelona is to try to define what other activities for the WG. And we have the AppHack WG now to work on future hackathons | 22:22 |
| reed | docaedo, I can justify states/canada, we're sponsoring one coming up on Ruby for example | 22:22 |
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| anteaya | reed: where? | 22:22 |
| docaedo | awesome | 22:23 |
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| reed | there is a separate WG for hackaton? | 22:23 |
| Patifa | reed yep. It's new... and we've been collaborating with them. | 22:24 |
| reed | anteaya, it happens online... https://www.rubyrampage.com/ | 22:24 |
| Rockyg | So, I'd like o mention there is an interop challenge that is based on some common apps. | 22:24 |
| Rockyg | I actually came here to taalk about starting an apps contrib repo for these sortss of apps. | 22:24 |
| docaedo | Rockyg: yep topol added that as an agenda topic at the end of the etherpad | 22:24 |
| reed | Rockyg, URL? | 22:25 |
| anteaya | reed: ah the rebranded rails rumble, nice | 22:25 |
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| Rockyg | I'll need to find it. It was one of the Austine talks. | 22:25 |
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| topol | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Interop_Challenge | 22:25 |
| anteaya | the feminine version of the last summit | 22:25 |
| Rockyg | So, I could see this group curating contributd apps, creating other language versions, identifying gaps in contributed apps. | 22:26 |
| docaedo | before we jump too far off the agenda | 22:26 |
| reed | that's the issue I have with all these community efforts lately: there is not a solid website where all these things can be found, discovered and shared | 22:26 |
| Patifa | can we move to the next topic? | 22:26 |
| docaedo | let's give Patifa a chance to knock off the other items :) | 22:26 |
| Rockyg | Currently there are some in the osops-contrib directory, but an apps contrib would be better | 22:26 |
| Rockyg | So, get the cochair, and work on more apps? | 22:27 |
| docaedo | next items are under Barcelona | 22:27 |
| Patifa | #topic Barcelona - WG Meetings and sessions | 22:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Barcelona - WG Meetings and sessions (Meeting topic: app_ecosystem_wg)" | 22:27 | |
| Rockyg | reed, ++ | 22:27 |
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| * topol need to go pickup my son. (thought today was a phone meeting). Rockyg will cover our item. Details of needs are in the etherpad | 22:28 | |
| Patifa | ok topol | 22:28 |
| Rockyg | thanks, topol ! | 22:28 |
| Patifa | We're still waiting for approval for our meeting in Barcelona, it looks we're getting it. | 22:28 |
| Patifa | We need to start planning the meeting there.. since it looks like a great opportinity to start over | 22:29 |
| Patifa | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/AppEcoSystem_WG_Barcelona_Meetup | 22:29 |
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| Patifa | I started an Etherpad so we can collect names... and start listing what we want our objectives to be | 22:30 |
| Rockyg | Would be good to coordinate with hackathon wg for ither a BoF or the meetup | 22:30 |
| docaedo | good plan to circle up in barcelona on this | 22:30 |
| Rockyg | ++ | 22:30 |
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| Patifa | I've added the need to increase the participation of other companies.. but I believe that might happen naturally if we have well defined goals and deliverables ppl can help with | 22:32 |
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| docaedo | agreed on that point - if what we are doing makes clear sense for the companies that are deeply invested in OpenStack we should start to see a lot more interest | 22:32 |
| Patifa | I think if we start drafting the plan before Barcelona we can have a better audience there | 22:33 |
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| Patifa | and come out with a more significant set of items... preferably with owners. heeh | 22:34 |
| docaedo | we'll need to be focused on making openstack relevant for the users (devs), and showing that we're building a welcoming platform for people who need a place to run large scalable apps | 22:34 |
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| Patifa | I started a conversation last meeting about audiences and actions to map what can be done | 22:35 |
| Patifa | https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1byHa_oTF2OTjfZZCJW0W3QXxs8PiQUqM8-6b0uWVOp4/edit | 22:35 |
| Patifa | have not had time to edit the diagram yet... with the feedback from last meeting. | 22:35 |
| Patifa | we can continue the conversation over the phone next week. | 22:36 |
| Patifa | (hard to discuss the diagram on IRC... at least for me) | 22:36 |
| Patifa | For the meantime we can start adding items to the list of goals... | 22:37 |
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| docaedo | sounds good to me | 22:37 |
| Patifa | ok. moving on | 22:38 |
| Patifa | #topic App Dev oriented session tracker | 22:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "App Dev oriented session tracker (Meeting topic: app_ecosystem_wg)" | 22:38 | |
| Patifa | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/App_Ecosystem_Workgroup-Barcelona_sessions | 22:38 |
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| Patifa | Here's where were listing all the sessions that might be of interest for app dev at the summit. | 22:38 |
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| Patifa | we started with our own submissions... but I believe we can add other sessions that were not submitted by members. | 22:39 |
| Patifa | it'll help with the App Dev Cheat Sheet we're trying to put together for app devs attending the summit | 22:40 |
| Rockyg | ++ | 22:40 |
| Patifa | so feel free to add! | 22:40 |
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| Rockyg | Interop challenge should be on there. I'll see if we can coolect and add them | 22:40 |
| docaedo | yep, I have it in mind to add any sessions that look relevant when I finally go through and work on my schedule | 22:41 |
| Patifa | yay! | 22:41 |
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| Patifa | we can also try to categorize them.. good for "new to openstack" dev, good for enterprise app devs.. | 22:42 |
| Patifa | etc... | 22:42 |
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| Patifa | #action Patifa clean session tracker - remove sessions not approved | 22:42 |
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| Patifa | #action Patifa add categories/tags to be used by "curators" | 22:43 |
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| Patifa | I'm calling you guys "curators" now.. I hope it's ok | 22:43 |
| Rockyg | another day, another hat ;-) | 22:44 |
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| Patifa | :D Rockyg | 22:44 |
| calebb | heh | 22:44 |
| docaedo | 15 minutes remaining :) | 22:44 |
| Patifa | is there anything else we could be looking at in terms of prework fro the summit? | 22:44 |
| vhdiaz | Patricia I got to drop :( | 22:44 |
| Patifa | ok vhdiaz :D get some rest | 22:45 |
| vhdiaz | c you all! | 22:45 |
| vhdiaz | thanks | 22:45 |
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| Rockyg | thanks! | 22:45 |
| Patifa | #topic OpenStack Academy | 22:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Academy (Meeting topic: app_ecosystem_wg)" | 22:45 | |
| Patifa | Flanders here | 22:45 |
| Patifa | ? | 22:45 |
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| Patifa | guess not. next! | 22:46 |
| Patifa | #topic First app | 22:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "First app (Meeting topic: app_ecosystem_wg)" | 22:46 | |
| Patifa | I move to make first app progress report status biweekly | 22:47 |
| Patifa | and created an etherpad for the status | 22:47 |
| Patifa | #link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18Zj2JU0jR4hy8y1HxFl30gTEGeqgBjc6hqv0ZAByVYo/edit#gid=0 | 22:47 |
| Patifa | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/firstapp_progress | 22:47 |
| Patifa | oops | 22:48 |
| Patifa | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/firstapp_progress | 22:48 |
| docaedo | +1 for bi-weekly | 22:48 |
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| Patifa | (bi-weekly = every other week) | 22:48 |
| csterret_ | I have not updated the sheet yet | 22:49 |
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| Patifa | we only have 10 min.. I'll move to the last item in the agenda | 22:49 |
| csterret_ | If anybody has time to do some testing on the jclouds version it is ready for testing | 22:50 |
| Patifa | #topic Interop CHALLENGE | 22:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Interop CHALLENGE (Meeting topic: app_ecosystem_wg)" | 22:50 | |
| Patifa | oops.. caps | 22:50 |
| docaedo | I like the caps, like Flanders is shouting CHALLENGE! | 22:50 |
| Patifa | Rockyg the floor is yours | 22:51 |
| Rockyg | OK. So the challng got started and started putting th apps in osops contrib. I suggestd th apps WG could start and own an apps-contrib repo where th donated apps sourc code could liv | 22:52 |
| Rockyg | You guys (and mayb an interop dv or two) would have merg priveliges | 22:52 |
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| docaedo | the problem with this sort of thing is that it's pretty intensive to validate the contributions work | 22:53 |
| Rockyg | Th apps wg definees rewquirements for documentation, testing, content, etc for an app to be included | 22:53 |
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| docaedo | I've had conversations with infra and have explored (a little) how we could actually check things and provide CI feedback, and the hard part is that for the feedback to be timely, we need a "long running cloud" to deploy these things on top of | 22:54 |
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| docaedo | not saying it's a reason not to do it! | 22:54 |
| Rockyg | That's why you guys defin the test requirements. So, it's more content review, not a full review. Others will file and fix bugs | 22:54 |
| docaedo | just saying there's more to automating this if we want it to actually include checks | 22:54 |
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| Rockyg | I suspect w could get OSIC | 22:54 |
| Rockyg | Yup. | 22:55 |
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| docaedo | sure, if it's just content review that's easier in a sense, but also can leave big gaps (like lots of ansible stuff looks good to me until I actually try to run it) | 22:55 |
| docaedo | Relevant thread Igor started a while back, trying to do something similar for Murano (and other) apps | 22:55 |
| docaedo | #link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/osops-tools-contrib/tree/ | 22:55 |
| docaedo | oops, thats not the link! | 22:55 |
| Rockyg | But, w've got seed apps that can be used to allow cloud vendors to demonstrate these apps work on their versions of openstack | 22:55 |
| docaedo | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-May/095917.html | 22:55 |
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| Rockyg | Yeah it is... | 22:56 |
| docaedo | I mean, I pasted the link you happened to be talking about Rockyg :) That's where there's stuff now. Second link is the ML thread from Igor | 22:56 |
| Notmars | We (internap) would be interested | 22:57 |
| Rockyg | It would be a lot like th old unix usr/bin/contrib directory. | 22:57 |
| reed | I've made a notice to myself to check the osops-contrib tree and test things with DreamHost cloud | 22:57 |
| Rockyg | Cool! even better! | 22:57 |
| docaedo | Notmars: you'll be the first one I lean on then when we're ready to start writing some tests! | 22:57 |
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| Notmars | And reed :-p he did say yes too :-p | 22:57 |
| docaedo | haha sure! | 22:58 |
| Rockyg | So, to get the repo, it's a matter of a couple of patches. The team here would need to define a workable dirctory structure so apps could be submittd | 22:58 |
| Rockyg | And miminum standards for docs and submittinhg bugs against an app | 22:59 |
| docaedo | oh time is up :( | 22:59 |
| csterret_ | What group did the interop challenge come out of? Are they asking us to take over hosting? | 22:59 |
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| Patifa | this looked interesting. I'll add to the agenda next week | 22:59 |
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| docaedo | good q csterret_ that's the question I was going to ask, how it moved from interop challenge to app ecosystem | 22:59 |
| Rockyg | They don't have a location. They grabbed a repo that had fewer hoops to gt merged. I think it belongs with this group | 22:59 |
| docaedo | yep would love to discuss further | 23:00 |
| Patifa | #action Patifa add interop conversation to the agenda | 23:00 |
| Patifa | time to go! | 23:00 |
| Patifa | thanks everyone! | 23:00 |
| Patifa | #endmeeting | 23:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 23:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Sep 12 23:00:30 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 23:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/app_ecosystem_wg/2016/app_ecosystem_wg.2016-09-12-22.00.html | 23:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/app_ecosystem_wg/2016/app_ecosystem_wg.2016-09-12-22.00.txt | 23:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/app_ecosystem_wg/2016/app_ecosystem_wg.2016-09-12-22.00.log.html | 23:00 |
| Rockyg | They meet at 1400 UTC on Wdnesdays | 23:00 |
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| Rockyg | used to b defcore. I'll post meting info in th etherpad | 23:00 |
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