Tuesday, 2016-09-13

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topolk bye01:16
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hongbin#startmeeting zun03:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Sep 13 03:00:02 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is hongbin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.03:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.03:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zun)"03:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'zun'03:00
hongbin#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun#Agenda_for_2016-09-13_0300_UTC Today's agenda03:00
hongbin#topic Roll Call03:00
*** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: zun)"03:00
mkraiMadhuri Kumari03:00
Vivek_Vivek Jain03:00
haiweihaiwei, hi03:00
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hongbinThanks for joining the meeting Namrata mkrai shubhams Vivek_ haiwei03:01
hongbinPause a few more seconds for potential participants03:01
hongbinbtw, yanyanhu cannot attend this meeting, he is travelling this week03:01
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hongbinok, let's start03:02
hongbin#topic Announcements03:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: zun)"03:02
hongbin1. The zun-ui repo was created (thanks Shu)03:02
hongbin#link https://github.com/openstack/zun-ui03:02
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hongbin2. sudipto shared an apporach to bootstrap Zun development environment03:02
mkraiYay!! Thanks Shu03:02
hongbin#link https://github.com/sudswas/zun-docker03:02
hongbinshu-mutou: thx03:03
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hongbinany comments regarding to the annoucement?03:03
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mkraiThanks sudipto03:03
hongbinsudipto: just mentioned your work :)03:03
sudiptohongbin, mkrai thanks! Sorry joined late.03:04
sudiptothat work needs a lot of work still. But i think i will finish automating everything with docker-compose by end of this week03:04
mkraihongbin, Can we add this to guide?03:04
hongbinmkrai: if you want03:04
shubhamssudipto : are there any dependencies or prerequisite for this to work ?03:04
sudiptoshubhams, just to have docker installed.03:05
sudiptowherever you are trying this.03:05
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shubhamssudipto : cool , great work!03:05
mkraiI think its good to add it.03:05
hongbinmkrai: sure03:05
hongbin#topic Review Action Items03:06
*** openstack changes topic to "Review Action Items (Meeting topic: zun)"03:06
hongbin1. Create a bug to disable devstack job if a patch is a spec or doc change (DONE)03:06
hongbin#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/zun/+bug/162224403:06
openstackLaunchpad bug 1622244 in Zun "Diable devstack job for a doc-only change" [Undecided,New] - Assigned to prameswar (prameswar)03:06
hongbin2. hongbin help shu-mutou to create a new repo for ui (DONE by Shu)03:06
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/366489/03:06
hongbinThat is all for AIs03:06
hongbin#topic Nova integration (Namrata)03:06
*** openstack changes topic to "Nova integration (Namrata) (Meeting topic: zun)"03:06
hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/nova-integration The BP03:06
hongbin#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-containers-nova-integration The etherpad03:06
hongbinNamrata: ^^03:07
NamrataThe updated patch is up for reviw03:07
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hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/354553/03:08
hongbinNamrata: i have another proposal which might touch a little about nova03:08
hongbinadisky: hey, thanks for joining03:09
hongbinNamrata: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/365754/03:09
Namrataokay .whats the proposal03:09
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hongbinNamrata: i guess your proposal will depends on the decision of the other proposal03:10
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hongbinNamrata: we will discuss the network proposal later03:10
Namrataokay sure03:10
hongbinAny other comment regarding to the nova integration spec?03:11
shu-mutou(^^)/ sorry, I'm late.03:11
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hongbinshu-mutou: hey, np. thanks for coming03:12
hongbin#topic Support interactive mode03:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Support interactive mode (Meeting topic: zun)"03:12
hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/support-interactive-mode03:12
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hongbini will explain this bp a bit03:12
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hongbinin docker, there is an interacive mode: docker run -it ubuntu /bin/bash03:12
hongbinthe bp is about doing something similar in zun03:13
hongbinfor example, zun run --image ubuntu --interactive03:13
sudiptohongbin, waiting for your assessment on how we will do it :)03:13
hongbinsudipto: i haven03:14
hongbinsudipto: i haven't investigate on it yet03:14
sudiptogiven the zun run can happen from anywhere03:14
sudiptoOk i feel at this time, that it's not possible to do.03:14
hongbinjust want to get feedback on whether this is a good idea03:14
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hongbinsudipto: why?03:15
sudiptoyou can't launch an interactive session just like docker does by running this command from a remote machine03:15
sudiptoyou could do so via VNC - but that won't probably replicate the exact same behavior/03:15
hongbinsudipto: but swarm did that03:15
sudiptodocker does it by attaching a serial console to the process locally03:15
sudiptook - then i am least knowledged, i should find out how swarm did it.03:16
hongbinyes, that is part of the job of the bp owner (if someone interest to take the bp)03:16
mkraiI like the idea, but yes we have to look at the implementation details03:16
sudiptoI will do the investigation03:17
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hongbinsudipto: thx03:17
hongbinsudipto: i just wanted to ask if there is a volunteer to take the work :)03:18
sudiptohongbin, yeah i can take it and let you know if this is conclusive.03:18
hongbinok, then we can wait for sudipto to do an initial investigation, then re-discuss it at the next meeting03:19
sudiptoSure thing.03:19
hongbin#topic Container image store03:19
*** openstack changes topic to "Container image store (Meeting topic: zun)"03:19
hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/glance-integration03:19
hongbin#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-container-image03:19
hongbinwe discussed this at the last meeting03:19
hongbinat the last meeting, we discuss a solution:03:20
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hongbinsolution 1: pull image from glance first, if miss, pull from docker hub03:21
hongbinthen, somebody proposal an alternative solution03:21
hongbinsolution 2: define a list of repo to pull images, and support it as configurable values03:22
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hongbinfor example, there is config like ['dockerhub', 'glance'], then image will be pulled form docker hub first03:22
hongbinfinally, the glance ptl suggested to leverage the location feature from glance03:22
hongbinsolution 3: leverage location feature from glance03:23
mkraiWhat is that location feature?03:23
hongbinhopefully, i summarize everything correctly03:23
hongbinmkrai: i don't know it in details, here is the general idea03:24
hongbinmkrai: glance image has an attribute called "locations"03:24
hongbinmkrai: it defines a list of locations to pull the glance image03:24
hongbinmkrai: for example [swift://...., http://...]03:24
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mkraiSo it can pull from docker hub also?03:25
hongbinmkrai: also, glance has a configure called location strategy03:25
hongbinmkrai: the location strategy will decide how to pull the image based on a location list03:25
hongbinmkrai: re. docker hub, we needs a backend for glance to support docker hub03:26
hongbinso, if we choose solution #3, the first thing we needs to do is to contribute a patch to glance to support docker hub as a backend03:27
mkraiOk got it. If glance can support all possible solutions, then it better to go with #303:27
shubhamshongbin : we will provide the user of zun api to provide the link location or it will be internally managed by zun ?03:27
mkraiThen we have only one solution which will be easy to maintain03:28
hongbinshubhams: i think it will internally defined by operators03:28
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hongbinshubhams: users just needs to specify the name of hte image, then zun / glance will decide how to pull it03:29
mkraihongbin, is anyone working on this bp?03:29
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hongbinmkrai: as far as i know, nobody is working on that so far03:29
mkraiOk I will take it03:29
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shubhamshongbin : what if as an operator I want to access image from a specific repo (local or remote whatever)03:30
mkraiDo we have all this information on etherpad or anywhere?03:30
hongbinmkrai: assigned it to you03:30
shubhamsmkrai : I can work on this with you03:30
mkraiThanks hongbin shubhams03:31
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hongbinshubhams: good question (what if as an operator I want to access image from a specific repo)03:32
hongbinshubhams: frankly, i don't have a perfect answer for that03:32
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hongbinsudipto: what is your opinions?03:32
sudiptoi tend to believe the operator should have the flexibility03:33
shubhamsThat was the reason, I proposed a "configure repo" kind of solution in last meeting03:33
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sudiptolet's gather our thoughts on the ether pad?03:33
sudiptoand decide it eventually?03:33
shubhams+1 sudipto for etherpad03:33
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hongbin#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-container-image03:33
hongbinthis one is the old discussion03:34
sudiptoNo one from the china team joined today?03:34
hongbinwant to reuse that one or create a new one?03:34
sudipto(sorry if you had announced this before)03:34
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hongbinsudipto: yanyanhu is in travel this week03:34
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hongbinhe didn't seem to be here today03:35
hongbinok, all let's forward your input to the etherpad: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-container-image03:36
shubhamshongbin : sure03:36
hongbinthe discussion in that etherpad might be outdated, remove it if you want03:36
hongbinok, next topic03:37
hongbin#topic Container network03:37
*** openstack changes topic to "Container network (Meeting topic: zun)"03:37
hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/neutron-integration03:37
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/365754/03:37
hongbinwe discussed this one at the previous meeting as well03:38
hongbinlet me do a recap03:38
hongbinthe proposal is about using nova to create a sandbox container03:38
hongbinthe sandbox container is an empty container, but with neutron ports attached (with network, ip)03:39
hongbinall containers created in zun will go into sandbox containers03:39
hongbinthat is03:40
hongbinin zun, create a container will do two things03:40
hongbin1. call nova to create a sandbox container03:40
hongbin2. have zun-compute to create a zun container, by using the namespace of the sandbox container03:40
hongbinthe point is to reuse nova to do the networking, scheduing, etc.03:41
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hongbinbasically, the idea is to re-use everything in nova03:41
hongbinhowever, containers are created by zun API03:41
hongbinthat is all03:42
mkraihongbin, How is this sandbox container created in nova?03:42
sudiptoand i had an objection towards it - because that makes us dependent on nova...however i would like to also get a sense of how much nova code is applicable as is for this work...03:42
sudiptothat is via the nova-docker driver i thought?03:42
sudiptoto answer mkrai03:42
mkraiI have an objection using nova-docker as it is not maintained anymore03:43
hongbinmkrai: that is something similar as how a instance is created in nova03:43
haiweihongbin, have a question, both the sandbox container and zun container will be created on  the same host(vm or baremetel)?03:43
hongbinsudipto: the code to allocate IP address, securtiy group, firewall03:43
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hongbinhaiwei: yes, they have to be in the same host03:44
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hongbinsudipto: want to listen to your opinions more, what are the disadvantages of depending on nova?03:45
haiweihongbin, so can zun takes over that sandbox container directly, not create a new one again03:45
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sudiptohongbin, depending on if we are using nova-docker - it has not future. IF we have problems with the nova code that we will use for containers - we are in trouble again.03:46
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sudiptoLest - if someone just wants to use zun - they will have to install nova as well03:46
hongbinhaiwei: i think no, zun will create another container in the namespace of the sandbox container03:46
hongbinsudipto: i see03:47
mkraisudipto, I think it will be important to install nova anyhow, may be in future we would need it to run host for our containers03:47
sudiptomkrai, run host means?03:48
mkraiPersonally I feel its ok to reuse nova code03:48
mkraisudipto, VMs where we run our containers03:48
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hongbinsudipto: to address your concern about dependency on nova, i revised the proposal as follow03:48
hongbinsudipto: introduce a sandbox driver, where could have multiple implementation, and nova is hte default implementation03:49
hongbinsudipto: would that address your concern?03:49
sudiptohongbin, yeah that works :-)03:49
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sudiptoin the world of pluggable configurations - everything seems to fit in well :D03:50
sudiptomkrai, running containers inside VMs doesn't mean our code has to dependent on the guy who creates the container IMHO.03:50
sudiptobut we are kinda settled on this now! Thanks!03:50
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hongbinany other question / concern about this proposal?03:51
mkraiI will have a look at the spec03:51
mkraiThanks hongbin03:52
hongbinmkrai: yes, i will revise the spec later03:52
hongbinand discuss it again if there is any concern03:52
hongbinok, that's it for this topic03:52
hongbin#topic Open Discussion03:53
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: zun)"03:53
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hongbinany other topic that needs to be discussed?03:53
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hongbinif nothing, let's end this meeting a little earlier03:54
hongbinthanks all for joining this meeting, the next meeting is next week the same time03:54
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"03:54
openstackMeeting ended Tue Sep 13 03:54:37 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)03:54
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-09-13-03.00.html03:54
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-09-13-03.00.txt03:54
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-09-13-03.00.log.html03:54
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eranrom#startmeeting storlets08:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Sep 13 08:00:22 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is eranrom. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.08:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.08:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storlets)"08:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'storlets'08:00
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eranromCongrats for our first official meeting :-)08:01
eranromtakashi: Do you know it Kota plans on joining?08:01
takashieranrom: yes! :-)08:01
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takashieranrom: I don't know.08:02
eranromtakashi: ok, so lets start08:02
eranrom#topic python update08:02
*** openstack changes topic to "python update (Meeting topic: storlets)"08:02
takashieranrom: maybe we need to ping him in storlets channel08:02
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eranromtakashi: good idea.08:02
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takashieranrom: I think we can go ahead. I already shared the current status about python storlet work to him.08:03
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eranromtakashi: ok, sure. So I see that the next step is the StorageFile calss.08:04
eranromI will review08:04
eranromThat is:08:04
eranrom#action eranrom to review Add StorletFile class: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/367560/08:04
takashieranrom: thanks08:05
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eranromtakashi: Do you want to land the doc patch and do the Application doc in a follow up?08:05
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takashieranrom: IMO it is better to write doc based on that StorletFile interface08:06
takashiif we do not have big objections on it08:06
takashiso I'd like to land StorletFile class first, and submit a doc to depend on that change08:07
eranromtakashi: sure. anything else on the topic?08:07
takashieranrom: no big other things now. After we land doc changes, I'll work about remaining items listed on the python-storlet etherpad08:08
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eranromtakashi: ok, great. I will move to the next topic then.08:09
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eranrom#topic bit tent work08:09
*** openstack changes topic to "bit tent work (Meeting topic: storlets)"08:09
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eranromFirst, thanks for the Java coding style patch08:09
eranromI guess its high time we added a style check for java08:09
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takashieranrom: ++08:10
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eranromStill, I guess we first need to replace the build.xml with a pythonic build08:10
takashiit was not so hard work to replace tabs as expected, because I can use sed for that :-)08:10
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takashieranrom: agree08:10
eranromtakashi: right, the thing is, there was a mixture of spaces and tabs with IMO sometimes 8 spaces per tab and sometimes 4 - agrrrr08:11
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eranromAlso there is 367477 which IMO will be the next step08:12
eranrom367477 Create storlets package08:13
* eranrom acting as patchbot08:13
takashieranrom: I'm drafting some patches to integrate all build stuffs into setup.py08:14
takashiThis one https://review.openstack.org/#/c/367477/08:14
takashiand this one https://review.openstack.org/#/c/368177/08:14
takashiIMO, we can integrate buiding/installing of c/java module to setup.py using Extentions08:14
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eranromtakashi: I thought Extensions only support c, but will recheck08:15
takashieranrom: I still need to check that, or at least I think we can kick some script, maybe.08:15
eranromIf indeed Extensions support c only, there is another trick to extend the default behavior of the setup process to add arbitrary functionality08:15
takashieranrom: yes08:16
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takashiI think it does not take so much time to create the setup.py mechanism itself,08:16
takashibut I need more time to update ansible playbook based on that.08:17
eranromtakashi: what do you have in mind regarding the ansible part?08:17
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takashieranrom: I'll first create a framework with single setup.py, and after that I'll try to address how we should update current ansible scripts08:19
takashieranrom: At that time I'd like to ask you comments/help08:20
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eranromtakashi: ok, gotcha. So actually you are taking the setup.py action item :-)08:20
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takashieranrom: I'll submit a draft of setup.py first, which at least passes unit tests (maybe updated version of 367477)08:21
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eranromtakashi: ok great thanks.08:21
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* eranrom looking for something else to do. Ah - spark-storlets08:21
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eranromtakashi: Will be looking out for the setup.py and review.08:22
takashitalking about ansible, we still have another big one08:22
takashifunctional tests on swift/keystone master08:23
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takashiEOL for Liberty is coming soon (when Newton is released), and at least we need to migrate to Mitaka or later08:24
eranromtakashi: right. The change itself is changing a single line of code in the storlet-swift-install repo.08:24
eranrom#action eranrom to make that change and see all hell breaks loose08:24
takashiIs there anything we need to do for keystone v3 before that migration?08:25
takashikeystone v3 API08:25
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eranromtakashi: Well, since keystone is backward compatible, we can start with Keystone master using v2 auth API and then migrate to V3 API08:26
takashieranrom: ok08:26
takashiI'm just afraid we need to finish that work before the migration because I tried it and found it may take some time for me... :-(08:26
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eranromtakashi: I will need to update joss in between to support V3 API so that spark-storlets does not break08:26
takashieranrom: great to hear that08:27
eranromtakashi: you mean that you tried Keystone master with v2 API and it did not work?08:27
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takashieranrom: Akihito tried it and failed to run ansible scripts, because v2 API is disabled. I'm currently supposing he missed some configration to turn on v2.08:28
takashiv2 API08:28
eranromtakashi: could be. ok Let me do this in 2 steps (with a third one that follows):08:29
eranrom1. Update to swift master08:29
eranrom2. update to keystone master08:29
eranromThat is keystone master with v2 API08:29
eranrom3. update joss / keystone V3 API08:29
takashieranrom: makes sense08:29
eranromtakashi: next topic?08:30
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takashieranrom: ok08:30
eranrom#topic java code style08:30
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eranromI do not have much to say on the topic, other then it would be good to introduce so as not to loose the work on the tab expansion08:31
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eranromwhich can be overriden by mistake if we do not have a stlyle checker08:32
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eranromI will try to make progress on this next week08:32
takashieranrom: totally agree08:33
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eranromtakashi: ok, anything else?08:33
eranrom#topic open discussion08:34
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: storlets)"08:34
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takashieranrom: As I added to the agenda, I think we need to care about long existing patches08:35
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takashimainly I'm little bit warried about installation in docker patch, which exists long time on gerrit08:36
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eranromtakashi: right. We had a problem were I could not run this on my VM, and it took quite a while till be overcome all problems08:37
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eranromIn fact I spent a lot of time yesterday and today to08:37
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eranromignore last line08:37
eranromDoron and I spent a lot of time finding this.08:37
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eranromthat is overcoming this problem08:37
eranromToday I uploaded an updated patch, and Doron has fixed merge problems...08:38
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eranromSo hopefully it will land soon.08:38
eranromThanks very much for bringing this up.08:38
eranromLooking at the other two.08:38
takashieranrom: please ping me if you need some review08:39
eranromtakashi: sure, thanks08:39
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takashiabout the other two things, I'll ask kota_'s plan.08:39
eranromtakashi: sure. Myimpression was that they are still W.I.P but please let me know is I got it wrong.08:40
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takashiIf we start working about packaging, it may cause so may merge conflict on existin items08:40
takashiso I'd like to land things we can merge first, if we only have small improvements remaining.08:41
eranromtakashi: right. Good point!08:41
takashieranrom: I'll have a meeting with kota_ this week, so will ask him there.08:42
eranromtakashi: ok please update me, in the meantime I will work on reviewing and landing all other stuff that AFAIK is not W.I.P and is not in conflict.08:43
takashieranrom: ok, thanks08:43
eranromtakashi: Thanks for bringing up this topic08:44
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eranromtakashi: anything else for today?08:44
takashieranrom: :-)08:44
takashieranrom: no08:45
takashiI still need to update design summit etherpad, sorry.08:45
takashiI think I can take some time for that next week08:46
eranromtakashi: that's ok. Its not that urgent08:46
eranromtakashi: great.08:46
eranromThanks for joining (our first official meeting)08:46
eranromSee you on #openstack-storlets08:47
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takashieranrom: thank you08:47
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"08:47
openstackMeeting ended Tue Sep 13 08:47:37 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)08:47
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2016/storlets.2016-09-13-08.00.html08:47
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2016/storlets.2016-09-13-08.00.txt08:47
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2016/storlets.2016-09-13-08.00.log.html08:47
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saggi#startmeeting karbor09:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Sep 13 09:01:03 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is saggi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.09:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.09:01
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'karbor'09:01
saggiHi everyone09:01
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saggiYinwei has a bunch of stuff in the agenda09:01
saggidoes anyone know if she's coming?09:02
leon_wangsaggi:she not here?09:02
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zhonghuashe will join in 10 mins09:02
yuvalmeanwhile, if anyone is lurking in #openstack-smaug, please leave that channel09:03
leon_wangtoday we'll have a lot to talk :)09:03
saggi#topic Decouple checkpoint API from provider API to become an standalone API(leon_wang)09:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Decouple checkpoint API from provider API to become an standalone API(leon_wang) (Meeting topic: karbor)"09:03
leon_wangHere is the patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/369170/09:04
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leon_wangwe can talk about it free09:05
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saggileon_wang: I read it. I have to say that I don't agree with it. There is no way for us to decouple it from the provider since this is where the information is.09:05
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zhonghuaas my email said, I am afraid of that there will be many impact points09:05
saggiIt's like accessing a file without knowing the directory09:05
saggiThis is where the information is09:06
saggiquerying all the providers can be done from the API or UI09:06
chenying_What's your oppions about it. I think if this API is independent. we need think more about how to save checkpoint metadata/data to bank.09:06
leon_wangsaggi:then we can create a new directory and we should do it.09:06
saggiI don't think you understand the analogy.09:06
saggiHow do I know where to find a checkpoint id09:06
saggiI will have to check all the providers09:07
saggiWe also don't guarantee that a checkpoint ID is unique between providers09:07
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leon_wangsaggi:maybe you have a little misunderstand...09:08
leon_wangsaggi:i don't mean to decouple all of it ,just api09:08
zhonghualeon_wang: what's your proposal?09:08
yuvalwe do have redundancy of parameters in checkpoint rest API09:09
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zhonghualeon_wang: what's your meaning? change the API file location?09:09
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yuvalwhen you query checkpoints from a provider, provider_id is both in url and in request body09:09
yuvalzhonghua: what impact points?09:09
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zhipengi think what leon meant is that we have a seperate checkpoint api rather than have it all in the provider api09:10
zhonghuayuval: framewrok, model, I don't know09:10
leon_wangzhonghua:kinda, we can just add a database table to save the provider_id and some other parameters.09:10
zhonghualeon_wang: yes, we have.09:10
saggiI understood it's about removeing the paramter from the URI09:10
saggiwe can remove it from the body but not the URI09:11
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leon_wangzhonghua:then we don't need to pass provider from client09:11
chenying_Now if a tenant want query all the checkpoint which he create. He must know all the provider_id he have slected. If the checkpoint api is independent without provider_id, he can query the checkpoint with different provider at the same time.09:11
saggiI don't like being able to query all the banks at once09:12
zhonghuasaggi: sounds not your understanding if i am correct. he wants to change the URI instend of parameter09:12
saggithey query could get stuck because one bank is inaccessible09:12
saggiand we could get duplicates09:12
zhonghualeon_wang: make sense09:12
yuvalchenying_: he meant moving the provider id to the body of the request. the provider id is still required09:12
leon_wangi don't mean to remove provider from checkpoint09:13
chenying_oh  just move the place of provider.09:13
leon_wangwe can just save the provider_id when we create the checkpoint09:14
saggiI look at it like how swift users /{container}/{object}09:14
chenying_What would be the benefit of moving the provider_id from url to post body?09:15
saggiIt would just be harder to convery that it's mandatory09:15
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zhonghuachenying_: that's the decouple meaning. I think09:16
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leon_wangchenying_:By definition in WIKI, Protection Provider is a composition of Protection Plugins covering supported resource types, and a Bank Plugin for persisting the data, whereas Checkpoint is the state, data, and metadata of protected resources, in a point of time.09:17
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saggicheckpoints are contained in a bank. But since a Bank doesn't have an explicit API entry the provider is the closest point09:18
leon_wangIMO,the checkpoint operation is some like plan09:18
saggiplans are local09:18
saggithey don't exist in the bank09:18
zhipengsaggi: but users do want to operate on the checkpoints right?09:18
zhipengdo all the CRUD operations09:19
saggiSimilar to objects in swift09:19
zhipengor if they have an orchestrator, it should be able to perform LCM of checkpoints in Karbor09:19
yinwei_labzhipeng, the difference of checkpoints and plans is: checkpoints will be shared among karbors but plans won't09:19
saggiWhen you want to list a checkpoints you are actually listing a provider09:20
saggisimilar to a container and ojects09:20
leon_wangsaggi:And checkpoint may provide much more function later,why don't we do it now?09:20
saggileon_wang: It's not a question of functionality. You can have all the functionality under any URI09:21
saggithe main issues is that09:21
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saggiGET /api/v1/checkpoints/ will never work09:21
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saggionly GET/api/v1/checkpoints/?provider_id=12309:21
saggithis means you have a trivial endpoints that doesn't work09:21
zhipengleon_wang meant he will still have the provider_id in the post body right ?09:22
leon_wangsaggi:we can't remove the provider_id?09:22
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saggiYou can't query all the providers at once in the same call. It will mean that Karbor has to go list all the banks.09:22
zhonghualeon_wang: does that mean your proposal is only to change rest api?09:22
leon_wangsaggi:we just move the provider_id to the body.09:22
chenying_a provider_id mean a constant bank. Here the provider_id in the checkpoint api url mean this checkpoint data belong to this bank of provider. So I think it is reasonable.09:23
zhipengzhonghua yes I think he might mean that09:23
saggileon_wang: It still means that GET /api/v1/checkpoints can't just work09:23
saggiIt's problematic to have such a simple thing not work. It's the first things people will try and do and it can't work.09:23
leon_wangsaggi:even after we create a checkpoint API module?09:24
zhonghuazhipeng: ok, it makes sense09:24
saggiIt can't logically work. Since if the user doesn't specify the provider_id we don't have enough information09:24
saggialso /api/v1/checkpints/123 is not unique09:24
saggisince we don't guarantee that IDs are unique across providers09:25
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saggisince a bank could have been cloned09:25
saggiSo simple REST invariants are violated09:25
saggiThis is why Swift did it09:25
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zhonghuasaggi: the user can provide the provider_id via filling the request body parameter, if I understand correctly. :)09:26
leon_wangsaggi: Sorry i stiil no get it why checkpoint is related a provider.09:27
saggiThis is far from trivial or standard09:27
leon_wangsaggi:why we can't promise it's unique?09:27
saggileon_wang: Since the checkpoint sits in the bank which is part of the provider09:27
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saggileon_wang: Since banks are not coordinated09:28
leon_wangsaggi: but logically they don't belong.09:28
saggileon_wang: What does not belong logically?09:28
leon_wangsaggi:according to the wiki definition09:28
saggiAccording to the definition it's a group of plugins+bank09:29
saggiYou can't directly access the bank09:29
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saggiso the only way to know what bank you are referring to is the provider09:29
zengchensaggi:IMO, from the user's perspective, they will query the checkpoints they create. at present, if they do so, they should query each provider one by one, which sounds not very reasonable.09:29
leon_wangsaggi: we don't have to access the bank09:29
yuvalzengchen: that is a must09:30
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zengchenyuval:why? that's too complex.09:30
saggiIf they don't query one by one Karbor will have to do it. This might be problematic since one bank might be unresponsive and that means that requests will fail when the information the user needs might be there.09:31
yinwei_labour checkpoints name space is divided by provider by design09:31
zhonghuazengchen: how to index the checkpoints? by tenant?09:31
leon_wangsaggi:we can add a table, when user delete a checkpoint first it will go through the table to find provider_id09:31
saggiWe can't user a database since it will only work for a single site09:31
yuvalleon_wang: checkpoint already includes provider_id in it09:31
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leon_wangyuval:where? bank?09:32
yuvalyes, in the checkpoint metadata09:32
zengchenzhonghua:would be better by user.09:33
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leon_wangyuval:i know what you mean, but the database table just save provider_id because API don't contain provider_id09:34
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saggiThe api contains provider id it's part of the URI09:34
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yuvalleon_wang: API contains provider_id. whether it is in the URL by the current API, or in the body as you suggest09:34
leon_wangyuval:yeah ,in the body09:35
leon_wangsaggi: as long as the body contains provider_id, we can solve the problem about url.09:35
saggileon_wang: You can't force the API user to add a body to the request. This is not how REST works.09:36
saggiYou don't put a body on GET requests09:36
leon_wangsaggi:they just need the body when they create09:36
chenying_You don't put a body on GET requests  +109:36
yuvalchenying_: yes, +109:37
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leon_wangsaggi:other they don't need anything but checkpoint_id.09:37
saggiNo, since /api/v1/checkpoints/123 will not work without use knowing in the request what provider id to use09:37
saggiWe will not look at all the providers09:37
saggiAnd even if we do the ID is not unique09:38
saggiacross providers09:38
saggiSo we can't use it as an ID09:38
leon_wangsaggi:when we create a checkpoint, we can save provider_id to the database besides the bank09:38
saggileon_wang: We can't use a database since it's not synced across sites09:38
zengchenleon_wang:if you just want to move the provider id to the requst body, i can not see any benifit.09:39
leon_wangthen other operations, it will at first get the provider_id.09:39
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leon_wangzengchen:no,that's not my point09:39
leon_wangsaggi: what do you mean?09:40
leon_wangsaggi: synced across sites?09:40
zengchenleon_wang:sorry, if i misunderstand you.09:40
chenying_leon_wang: checkpoint metadata/data will be used in cross-restoration. So if the checkpoint api depend on the local database, I think it is not a good idea.09:40
chenying_ cross-site-restoration09:41
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zhonghuawhat I am thinking about is the cross-site restoration senario.09:41
saggileon_wang: I think we discussed this enough. I'll put a summary after the meeting on the blueprint and we can continue there.09:41
saggiWe still have more topics than time09:41
leon_wangsaggi: ok,thanks09:41
saggi#topic Enable ConsistencyGroup and full vm protection (snapshot/backup) through Karbor (yinwei)09:42
*** openstack changes topic to "Enable ConsistencyGroup and full vm protection (snapshot/backup) through Karbor (yinwei) (Meeting topic: karbor)"09:42
saggiyinwei_lab: is there a BP?09:42
yinwei_labnot yet09:42
yinwei_labtalked this with ying, and I'm thinking we need enable this capability in our sample vm/volume plugins09:43
yinwei_labwhat do you guys think about?09:43
yinwei_labif it's agreed, I will go to draft the bp09:43
saggiyinwei_lab: Maybe for O cycle. We are still struggling with regular VM backup09:44
saggiBut put the BP up09:44
saggiWe need to start having concrete things before bcn09:44
saggiToo bad most of you guys won't make it09:45
yinwei_labwe will come for a bp09:45
zhonghuayinwei_lab: agree09:45
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yinwei_labif the bp is agreed, we will go to implement it09:45
yuvalyinwei_lab: what do you mean by 'full vm protection'?09:45
saggi#topic Enable replicate protection plugin(yinwei)09:45
*** openstack changes topic to "Enable replicate protection plugin(yinwei) (Meeting topic: karbor)"09:45
yuvalyinwei_lab: nvm, let's speak afterwads09:45
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yinwei_labsame status as above09:46
saggiI think this is the same as the previous topic09:46
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yinwei_labbut there's a problem for replicate09:46
saggi#topic Add a dict type parameter for Protectable Instances API (chenying)09:46
*** openstack changes topic to "Add a dict type parameter for Protectable Instances API (chenying) (Meeting topic: karbor)"09:46
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yinwei_labhow to catch a checkpoint for replication?09:46
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saggichenying ...09:47
chenying_I have expain it why I need add parameter for this api in the wiki page.09:47
saggiFor the public API?09:47
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saggiIt seems like a good suggestion but what I'm missing is how it all fits in the user-story09:48
saggiDo we use it during plan building?09:48
chenying_one scenario is cross-region-query-instance.09:48
yuvalchenying_: are the only 2 use cases right now are region and vendor auth?09:48
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chenying_I will submit a bp about it. What's your oppions about it.09:50
yuvalchenying_: I belive there is a room for it, but a user will have to know what parameters to pass09:50
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saggiI also have trouble seeing how dashboard integration would work09:51
chenying_cross-region-query-instanc may also consider how to protect the instance in different region.09:51
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chenying_saggi: we may need define the certain key of the parameter.09:53
chenying_saggi: I will discuss this with xinyong.09:53
saggichenying, it's a good idea but we need more specifics. I think a BP is in order and make sure xiangxinyong also signs off on it.09:53
xiangxinyongsaggi, chenying: ok09:53
xiangxinyongwe will discuss the bp together09:54
chenying_Ok I will submit a bp later.09:54
saggichenying thanks.09:54
saggi#topic open discussion09:55
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: karbor)"09:55
saggiWe have only 5 minutes09:55
saggiSo any last words?09:55
leon_wangsaggi:sorry ,my bad.09:55
yinwei_labzhonghua, you guys won't go to bcn?09:55
saggileon_wang: np09:55
zhonghuayinwei_lab:not sure09:55
yuvalleon_wang: good to see you on the irc meetings09:55
zhonghuayinwei_lab:how about you?09:56
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leon_wangsaggi: I will modify further, we can talk about it later, ok?09:56
saggileon_wang: Sure, np09:56
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yinwei_labzhonghua: not sure, I still suffers with my passport09:56
yuvalI just want to say thanks for zhangshuai and xiangxinyong, they are doing many reviews09:56
xiangxinyongthanks yuval09:56
leon_wangsaggi:i also have a question about restore api09:56
saggileon_wang: shoot09:57
leon_wangwhy it have delete in client but not in api?09:57
zhangshuaithanks for yuval09:57
yuvaland zhangshuai did a great work on docs and api09:57
saggileon_wang: I don't understand the question09:57
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chenying_zhangshuai: good job!09:58
zhonghuazhangshuai xiangxinyong: thanks09:58
leon_wangsaggi: i will submit a patch later.09:58
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saggiIs that all?09:58
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"09:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue Sep 13 09:59:42 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)09:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-09-13-09.01.html09:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-09-13-09.01.txt09:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-09-13-09.01.log.html09:59
saggiThanks everybody09:59
leon_wangthanks saggi09:59
leon_wangsaggi: really thank you :)10:00
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guoshansenlin weekly meeting tonight?13:01
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Qiming#startmeeting senlin13:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Sep 13 13:02:55 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.13:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.13:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'senlin'13:03
Qiminghi, sorry for being late13:03
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guoshanhi, everyone13:03
Qiminghi, everyone13:03
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Qimingplease let me know if you have topics to discuss13:04
ruijie_Evening, everyone13:04
Qimingwelcome, guoshan and ruijie_13:04
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Qimingmeeting agenda here13:04
Qiming#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda#Weekly_Senlin_.28Clustering.29_meeting13:04
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Qiminglet's start with the newton work items etherpad13:05
Qiming#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-newton-workitems13:05
ruijie_Will we talked about the desired_capacity today?13:05
Qimingyes, we can13:05
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Qimingadded to meeting agenda13:06
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QimingI'm not aware of any progress in performance test during last week13:06
Qimingyanyan is on vacation13:06
Qiminghe has been pushing the rally side on this13:07
Qiminghealth management, no new patches related to this topic either13:07
Qiminglixinhui_, the lb bug closed or not?13:08
lixinhui_closed for Octavia13:08
lixinhui_I will change the status for that bug13:08
lixinhui_but for others not13:08
lixinhui_depends on driver13:08
elynnSo if we use haproxy then we will encounter this bug?13:09
Qimingokay, so we still cannot get node status correct?13:09
lixinhui_and neutron team is pushing change towards Octvia from lbaas13:09
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Qimingokay, fine, cannot rely on non-stable features there13:09
Qimingwe may have to postpone this feature to Ocata cycle then13:10
lixinhui_once the node status change, octavia will send RPC call to lbaas for it to change the da status13:10
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lixinhui_but not implement the notify13:10
Qimingit is a very useful feature, realy hope that can be landed and get stabilized soon13:10
lixinhui_just PPC call13:10
lixinhui_RPC call13:11
Qimingbut can we get pollers work?13:11
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lixinhui_oh, I see. will try this in vacation13:11
Qimingmany thanks13:12
Qimingdocumentation side, we have merged quite some doc fixes recently, about syntax and grammar13:12
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Qimingother than that, no new docs added13:12
Qimingone thing I just realized is about testing13:12
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Qimingwe do have testing section in the developer's guide13:13
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Qimingbut we failed to let people know we have a cloud_backend = openstack_test option13:13
Qimingthat should be added13:13
Qimingadded this item to etherpad for tracking13:14
Qimingcontainer profile13:14
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Qiminghaiwei has commited some patches about node/cluster dependencies13:14
Qimingour discussion concluded that these dependencies can be generalized13:14
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Qimingso there have been db level and engine level patches13:15
Qimingthere are still a few patches about this to be reviewed13:15
Qimingpls spend sometime on this when you are not so busy13:15
Qimingzaqar receiver13:16
Qimingthe whole invocation flow is working13:16
Qimingthe most tricky part is about trust building13:16
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Qimingan end user trusts 'senlin' account to perform cluster operations13:16
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Qimingand he/she would trust 'zaqar' account to trigger such operations by sending in some messages13:17
Qimingthe trust between the requesting user and the 'senlin' account is much easier, thus solved a long time ago13:17
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Qimingthe other one means we have to know zaqar user id to build such a trust13:18
Qimingyanyan has worked out a solution there, so no worries13:18
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Qimingthe current vision is that zaqar will enable more flexible action triggering if used properly13:18
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Qimingnext topic is event/notification13:19
Qimingno progress I'm aware of13:19
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QimingI myself have been tweaking nova server profile update recently13:19
Qimingbuiding a long chain of patches13:19
Qimingthe goal is to make profile update more reliable and maintainable13:20
Qimingalso applied some optimizations related to name update or password update etc.13:20
Qimingthat's all about newton work items etherpad13:20
elynnI'm a little concern about zaqar part13:21
elynnsince not all users will enable zaqar in their openstack13:21
elynnIs it better to provide an option to enable/disable it in senlin?13:22
Qiminggood question13:22
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Qimingbut I hate options, which may get deprecated later13:23
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Qiminghow about we do a check at api layer13:23
elynnThat sounds great13:23
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Qimingif you are creating a message type of receiver, and we know zaqar is not installed, we throw some exception?13:24
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Qimingwe cannot do this by simply checking if zaqar is installed on the local machine13:24
elynnservice unavailable or bad request?13:25
Qimingwe should check keystone service catalog13:25
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Qimingshould be a bad request of something 4xx13:25
Qimingit is definitely not a 5xx error13:25
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Qimingadded an item13:26
Qimingwon't be a huge task13:26
elynnen, bad request is better13:26
Qiminganything else?13:27
elynnnope from me.13:27
ruijie_For the desired_capacity...13:28
ruijie_If we do not specified the max and min size13:28
Qimingruijie_, we leave that to the next topic13:28
ruijie_Sorry about that.13:28
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Qiming#topic planning for RC release13:28
*** openstack changes topic to "planning for RC release (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:28
Qimingany high priority bugs seen recently?13:28
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openstackLaunchpad bug 1619842 in senlin "after cluster-check, the status of cluster is warning" [Critical,Triaged] - Assigned to miaohb (miao-hongbao)13:29
Qimingthis one should be already closed ...13:29
Qiminganyone looking at this #154696013:31
Qimingbug #154696013:31
openstackbug 1546960 in senlin "node-create's index will be -1 if create more than 1 node,then cluster-node-add will fail as well" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/154696013:31
Qiminglixinhui_, is the 'idontknow' you?13:31
lixinhui_No, Qiming ...13:32
Qimingen, youdontknow13:32
ruijie_I did not reproduce the situation the bug describled13:32
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Qimingthanks ruijie_, for confirmation13:33
Qimingmarking as incomplete for now13:33
Qimingbug #160924413:33
openstackbug 1609244 in senlin "Getting image authentication failed when use fernet in keystone" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160924413:33
Qimingthis one seems fixed, it was a keystone configuration problem13:33
QimingI'm gonna cut RC1 this week, probably on Thursday13:34
Qimingif you have got any patches you want a review please speak up on #senlin channel13:35
Qiming#topic dealing with desired_capacity13:35
*** openstack changes topic to "dealing with desired_capacity (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:35
Qimingruijie_, room is yours13:35
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Qimingruijie_, still awake?13:37
ruijie_yea, the eval)stauts() will check the desired_capacity13:37
ruijie_if we do not specified the max and min size of the cluster13:37
Qimingyou get min_size=0, max_size = -113:37
ruijie_this method weill change the reason to ' number of active nodes is above desired_capacity'13:38
ruijie_is that ok?13:38
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Qimingyes, it means the cluster is operational, just may be wasting some additional resources13:38
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Qiminghaving the number of active nodes equal to the desired_capacity would be great13:39
ruijie_That's true13:40
ruijie_The number of active nodes is equal to desired_Capacity13:40
ruijie_but the max_size is sitll -113:40
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Qimingbut if we only set cluster status to 'ACTIVE' when that number is exactly desired_capacity, we may be a little too restrictive13:41
Qimingmax_size means no upper limit13:41
ruijie_I understand that, but I think the reason of should be more friendly13:42
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Qimingthat whole condition is about desired_capacity <= current capacity <= max_size13:43
Qimingor if max_size is set to -1, there is no limit13:44
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ruijie_Ok. I get it13:45
Qimingfeel free to propose a better description when you get one13:45
Qimingwhen speaking of desired_capacity13:45
ruijie_Sure :)13:46
QimingI'm gonna work on that during the coming week13:46
Qimingthe change would be about all cluster operations13:46
Qimingespecially those that change the size of a cluster13:46
Qimingthe goal is to make sure all operations are based on currently observed number of nodes, not desired capacity13:47
ruijie_Yes, that will be good for the Healty Manager13:47
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Qimingsay if you have a cluster of 3 nodes, and your desired_capacity is 513:47
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Qimingfine, cluster is in WARNING status13:47
Qimingwhen I do scale out13:47
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QimingI'll use the observed 3 nodes as the basis13:48
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Qimingwe are not basing the resize operation on the desired_capacity13:48
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Qiming'desired_capacity' of a cluster is always a "desired", not the reality13:49
ruijie_and recalculate the desired_capacity or not?13:49
Qimingif not for senlinclient being freezed, I'm even thinking of adding a 'active_nodes' property to a cluster13:49
Qimingruijie_, will recalculate13:49
Qimingusing the above example13:50
Qimingyou have 3 nodes, your previous desire was 5 (not realized)13:50
Qimingnow you say 'cluster-scale-out -c 3'13:50
Qimingthat means you will want the cluster to have 6 nodes, your new desire13:50
Qimingsenlin will try its best to achieve that13:50
Qimingbut ... in real world, you may still have 3 nodes, or maybe just 4, because you have running out of quota or resources ...13:51
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Qimingso, yes, desired_capacity will always describe your new desire13:51
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Qimingit will be changed13:52
ruijie_how does senlin treat the ERROR nodes when we do a 'SCALE_OUT' action13:52
Qimingno matter the operation/action succeeded or not13:52
Qimingwe leave them there13:52
ruijie_I know senlin will delete ERROR nodes first when we do a 'SCALE_IN'13:52
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Qimingthat's a good question, I haven't thought it thru yet13:53
Qimingmaybe add a cluster-reset operation, delete all inactive nodes?13:53
Qimingnot sure13:53
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ruijie_Maybe just let the user deside how to treat them13:54
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Qimingyup, will keep working on that when I finish the desired_capacity one13:54
Qiming#topic open discussion13:54
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:54
Qiminganything for a quick discussion?13:56
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ruijie_nope from me13:56
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Qimingokay, thanks everyone13:57
Qimingbest wishes to you and your family, ...13:58
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Qimingit's mid-autumn season13:58
Qimingthanks for joining, see you13:58
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guoshangood night, and have fun in festival days13:58
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"13:58
openstackMeeting ended Tue Sep 13 13:58:47 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)13:58
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-09-13-13.02.html13:58
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-09-13-13.02.txt13:58
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-09-13-13.02.log.html13:58
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ihrachys#startmeeting networking14:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Sep 13 14:01:06 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ihrachys. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)"14:01
ihrachyshello everyone :)14:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'networking'14:01
ajo_Hi :)14:01
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ihrachys#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings Agenda14:01
jschwarzhey guys14:01
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ihrachys#topic Announcements14:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking)"14:01
ihrachysfriendly reminder we are into RC1 release week14:01
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ihrachysmeaning, we don't generally land anything except things meant for Newton ('meant' as in 'targeted for RC1 in Launchpad and approved by your PTL)14:02
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ihrachysI will send a release request just after the meeting14:02
ihrachys(will post the link in #openstack-neutron when it's up)14:03
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ihrachysonce it's up, please put patches you think are almost ready and will land the tree quickly in the comments.14:03
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ihrachys(I will put the release request to WIP)14:03
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ihrachyswe'll collect candidate links and see what we can fit in14:03
ihrachysanyhow, rc1 happens this week, meaning the master branch will be open for Ocata this week too14:04
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ihrachysthis is also nomination week14:04
ihrachys#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-September/103115.html14:04
ihrachysthe link points to a proposal to add a 'release steward' role to projects14:05
ihrachysanyhow, we will still need a PTL, so if someone feels like stepping in, it's your time14:05
ihrachys(not here, in openstack-dev@)14:05
ihrachysfinally, don't forget to update Newton post mortem: #topic Blueprints14:06
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ihrachys#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/360207/ post-mortem14:06
ihrachys#topic Blueprints14:06
*** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: networking)"14:06
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ihrachysnothing specific here, just a note that armax cleaned up Newton dashboard14:07
ihrachys#link https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/newton-rc114:07
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ihrachysit should now be completely relevant to Newton, so reviewers should use the dashboard to prioritize their last reviews for N14:07
ihrachysas for other blueprints that were targeted before for N, they are rolling into O (obviously)14:08
ihrachyswe may want to untarget some of those that don't show much progress last several cycles.14:08
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ihrachysfor non-obsolete specs you may have in neutron-specs, make sure you retarget them to Ocata too14:09
ihrachys#topic Bugs14:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking)"14:09
ihrachysthat week it was jschwarz as the bug deputy14:09
jschwarzHello :)14:10
ihrachysjschwarz: things we should care about?14:10
jschwarzthere were a huge amount of bugs opened last week and all those who've gotten my attention has either been fixed or is being worked on14:10
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jschwarzthere are 3 un-triaged bugs from this week that are yet untriaged (I'm not aware of a bug deputy this week):14:11
jschwarzhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1622654 https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1622917 https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/158064814:11
openstackLaunchpad bug 1622654 in neutron "Security Group doesn't work if the specific allowed-address-pairs value is set" [Undecided,New]14:11
openstackLaunchpad bug 1622917 in neutron "Failed to update router to ha mode when overlapping is disabled" [Undecided,New] - Assigned to lavanya (lavanya-annam)14:11
openstackLaunchpad bug 1580648 in neutron "Two HA routers in master state during functional test" [Undecided,Confirmed]14:11
jschwarzthat's about it :)14:11
ihrachysright, don't we have anyone picked the last time?14:11
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jschwarzihrachys, I'm not aware of a new assignee14:11
mlavallethere was no meeting last week due to US holiday14:11
ihrachysoh right, no meeting, that's why14:12
ihrachysok, we need someone for this and next weeks14:12
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ihrachysI can do the next one14:13
ihrachyswho's for this week?14:13
* ihrachys snoozes14:14
hichiharaOK. I can.14:14
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ihrachyshichihara: you won the prize! thanks!14:14
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ihrachyshichihara: please update the agenda page to include your name for this week14:15
hichiharaihrachys: Sure14:15
ihrachyshichihara: while at it, maybe put me for the next one. thanks.14:15
jschwarzhichihara, thanks for stepping up - see the 3 bugs I posted before as they are from the past days and aren't yet triaged :)14:15
ihrachyshichihara: please make sure you triage the three bugs that jschwarz pointed out above14:15
hichiharaSure. I will.14:16
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matrohonany chance we target newton for this bug : https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/153709114:16
openstackLaunchpad bug 1537091 in neutron "Prevent the attachment of a subnet to a router" [Wishlist,In progress] - Assigned to Mathieu Rohon (mathieu-rohon)14:16
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matrohonits is needed for net-bgpvpn to fix a bug properly14:17
ihrachysmatrohon: I see the fix, and should be easy to review. let's target it though it may be best effort.14:17
matrohonihrachys, thanks14:18
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ihrachysok, if folks have more candidates for RC1, ping me or armax in the usual channel14:18
ihrachysplease don't target every single bug to rc1 yourself though :)14:18
ihrachys#topic Gate failures14:19
*** openstack changes topic to "Gate failures (Meeting topic: networking)"14:19
ihrachys#link http://grafana.openstack.org/dashboard/db/neutron-failure-rate?panelId=5&fullscreen Integrated Tempest Grafana14:19
ihrachysI see -dvr is not particularly happy.14:19
ihrachyshaleyb: do we have an idea what's up with it?14:19
haleybihrachys: let me look, seemed fine yesterday i thought14:20
ihrachysif I choose 7 days frame, it seems it started around 00:00 9/1314:21
ihrachysanyhow, if folks see a failure in any of jobs, please make sure it's reported14:21
ihrachys#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bugs?field.tag=gate-failure14:21
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ihrachysbefore blindly rechecking14:21
haleybi'll see what merged that might have broken something once i find a gate failure on that job14:22
ihrachysok, thanks14:23
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ihrachysfolks, please check the list of gate-failure bugs to see if anything seems related to your latest landings :)14:23
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ihrachys#topic Docs14:24
*** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: networking)"14:24
ihrachyswe have quite some doc bugs in the queue14:25
ihrachys#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bugs?field.tag=doc14:25
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ihrachysagain, let's clean those up before the final release. I hope folks who pushed DocImpact patches will help with cleaning up that list.14:25
ihrachys#topic Transition to OSC14:26
*** openstack changes topic to "Transition to OSC (Meeting topic: networking)"14:26
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ihrachysrtheis: are you closed for Newton now?14:26
ihrachysrtheis: I see someone on post mortem suggested we can backport some neutron bits to stable/newton. is it correct?14:27
rtheisHere is the release notes http://docs.openstack.org/releasenotes/python-openstackclient/newton.html14:27
ihrachysI mean this: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/360207/9/specs/newton/postmortem/postmortem.rst@50614:27
amotokiI think OSC has been closed for Newton. new features cannot be backported to stable/newton. right?14:27
rtheisihrachys: yes, osc generally doesn't do backports but could consider14:27
rtheisexceptions should be discussed with dtroyer and stevemar14:28
ihrachysamotoki: assuming they have stable:follows-policy governance tag, I would think no, they can't14:28
amotokiihrachys: that's my understanding. just I would like to confrim it again.14:28
ihrachysI don't immediately see why we really want to push for those backports. I guess I miss something.14:29
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ihrachysok, I guess we will discuss Ocata plans in some more details some next meeting when masters are open14:30
ihrachys#topic Moving to Keystone v3 API in Neutron14:30
*** openstack changes topic to "Moving to Keystone v3 API in Neutron (Meeting topic: networking)"14:30
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amotokiFor Ocata release, we really would like to mark Neutron CLi as deprecated. Let's use OSC and report missing features!14:30
ihrachysamotoki: what's there? I saw some patches flying re keystone314:30
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amotokiihrachys: sorry . it's about CLI stuff14:30
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ihrachysamotoki: np, that was clear :)14:31
amotokire keystone v3 stuff, project_id support in API just has been merged.14:31
amotokiit allows API users to use project_id and tenant_id equivalently.14:32
amotokiif you find some bugs, file a bug!14:32
ihrachysI see matrohon complaining about some tests failing in their gate in our channel as we speak! :)14:32
matrohonihrachys, I'm always complaining :)14:33
ihrachysI also saw midonet needed to modify their devstack plugin somehow14:33
matrohonthe issue for net-bgpvpn is taht project_id is added automatically in the dict resulting from an API call14:34
HenryGThat just seems to be midonet's way of keeping up with new extensions14:34
amotokithere might be missing ponits related to project-id or usage of project-id extension.14:34
matrohonand we are testing results of API calls...14:34
amotokimatrohon: is it a problem?14:35
matrohonamotoki, we need to accomodate, since the asserting concerning the result is not true anymore14:35
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amotokimatrohon: ah... i got it. you are checking all of responses.14:36
ihrachysok cool.14:36
matrohonamotoki, yep14:36
ihrachysamotoki: do you envision anything that we should squeeze into N?14:36
amotokiihrachys: about keystone v3 stuff?14:37
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amotokihonestly we don't need to rush it in newton.14:37
ihrachyswell we kinda did by landing api change, didn't we? :)14:38
amotokiyes. it is a API change. I thought it does not affect anything as it is additive change, but the really is not.14:39
amotokianyway we need to talk it with armax14:40
ihrachysbut now that we landed it, I merely want us to not leave the release with a partial feature that crashes and misbehaves. so if you know about upcoming bug fixes for the feature, please raise them in release request I will push shortly.14:40
ihrachys#topic Neutron-lib14:41
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ihrachysI don't believe it's under active tracking right now because Newton branch and release was cut off a while ago.14:41
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ihrachysHenryG: right? should we skip?14:41
HenryGOn the back-burner until Ocata revs up14:41
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ihrachys#topic On Demand Agenda14:42
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ihrachysI see "Distributed gateway for optimized local SNAT" by ishafran14:42
ihrachysfrom the gist of the question, it seems like a question that is better addressed to neutron-drivers though. all RFEs/blueprints are supervised by the group.14:43
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ihrachysI also don't see the author14:43
ihrachysanything else folks want to discuss?14:43
ihrachysok then, we'll meet next week on Monday then. see ya all14:44
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"14:44
electrocucarachathanks ihrachys14:44
openstackMeeting ended Tue Sep 13 14:44:14 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)14:44
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2016/networking.2016-09-13-14.01.html14:44
njohnstonthanks ihrachys!14:44
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2016/networking.2016-09-13-14.01.txt14:44
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2016/networking.2016-09-13-14.01.log.html14:44
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dasanind_thanks ihrachys14:44
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carl_baldwinmlavalle: rtheis: haleyb: hi15:01
carl_baldwinjohn-davidge told me that he would have to miss today.15:01
carl_baldwinAnyone else around?15:01
carl_baldwinLet's get going...15:02
carl_baldwin#startmeeting neutron_routed_networks15:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Sep 13 15:02:16 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is carl_baldwin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:02
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carl_baldwin#topic Announcemestn15:02
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carl_baldwin#topic Announcements15:02
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carl_baldwinThat's better15:03
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carl_baldwinRC1 will be today, I think.15:03
carl_baldwinIf I recall, RC1 is usually when the branch is cut and the master branch opens for the next cycle.15:03
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carl_baldwinIt'd be cool to start getting some things lined up soon. But, I know there are some things still to wrap up  (e.g. tests and docs)15:04
carl_baldwinSummit is approaching fast.15:04
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carl_baldwinAny other announcements?15:05
mlavallePTL nomination ends 2016-09-18, 23:45 UTC15:05
carl_baldwinThat's this Sunday.15:06
carl_baldwin#topic patches15:06
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haleybdoesn't look like any hats are in the ring yet15:06
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carl_baldwin#link haleyb nope15:07
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carl_baldwin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+(topic:bp/routed-networks+OR+topic:bp/neutron-routed-networks+OR+topic:bp/service-subnets)15:07
carl_baldwinI think we got everything that I wanted merged for Newton done.15:08
carl_baldwinThat's pretty cool.15:08
carl_baldwinDoes anyone have patches that need some attention?15:08
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carl_baldwinmlavalle: How are the testing patches coming along?15:09
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mlavallewe are making good progress15:09
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carl_baldwinI see that amuller has given them some attention. That is great, thanks amuller15:09
mlavallethe scenario test is running reliably now in our vagrant environment15:10
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mlavalleamuller pointed correcty to the next challenge15:10
mlavallewhich is to make it runable more generallly15:10
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mlavallein any environment15:10
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mlavallewe will address that this week15:11
carl_baldwinMakes sense.15:11
carl_baldwinSounds like progress.15:11
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mlavalleI also started a conversation with clarkb about getting this running in Jenkins15:11
mlavalleexpect to address it over the next 2 weeks15:11
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mlavalleAnd finally the API tests from janzian are also progressing15:12
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mlavalleamuller reviewed his patchset yesterday and suggested a couple more test cases15:12
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mlavallethat should be done over the next 2 days15:12
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mlavallethat's all this week in that front15:13
janzianYes, thanks amuller for the helpful suggestions15:13
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carl_baldwinCool. I am finishing up some improvements to the docs based on the feedback I've received. I'll post it soon.15:14
carl_baldwinI think that's it.15:14
carl_baldwin#topic Ocata15:14
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carl_baldwinI have three main things to do for Ocata. I put them on the etherpad around L4315:14
carl_baldwin#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/routed-provider-networks-notes15:15
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carl_baldwinmlavalle is all over the first one.15:15
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carl_baldwin"Integration with Nova Scheduler"15:15
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mlavalleWe are making good progress there15:15
mlavalleActually, we are ahead of the Nova guys15:15
mlavalleAs of this past Sunday, I have the entire subnet lifcyle debugged and running15:16
* carl_baldwin expects nothing less. :D15:16
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mlavalleMeaning that we can create / update / delete subnets in routed networks and the corresponding resource pools, agregates and inventories are created / updated and eleted15:17
carl_baldwinmlavalle: Do you need any help in that area? Are you ready for reviews yet? Or, would that still be premature.15:17
mlavallenot yet15:17
mlavallethe Nova team is still making some changes to the inventories api15:18
mlavalleand they need to get the association of aggregates with resource pools working15:18
mlavalleBut that is not stopping our testing15:19
mlavalleI am working around those bits15:19
carl_baldwinSounds like this is in good hands.15:19
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mlavalleI think I will be done testing the functionality next week15:19
mlavalleand then I will write unit tests15:19
carl_baldwinmlavalle: cool15:19
mlavalleand also a tempest scenario test15:19
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mlavalleGood progress overall15:20
carl_baldwinmlavalle: You might consider writing tests along with writing the functionality. I find that helps me focus my efforts when I write the functionality.15:20
mlavallewill do. Thanks15:20
carl_baldwinThe next thing is "Using a routed network as a router:external network"15:21
carl_baldwinThere are two issues with this right now.15:21
carl_baldwin1. We can't put floating IPs on a routed network.15:21
carl_baldwin2. We need routing for the floating IPs.15:21
carl_baldwinFor 1, I think we should be close. My plan is to use service subnets for floating ips.15:22
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carl_baldwinIn other words, if you put a floating IP subnet on a routed network, it *must* have a service subnet of whatever the device owner for a floating IP is.15:23
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carl_baldwinThen, it should just be a matter of figuring out how to deploy BGP routing. I'm not sure if the BGP routing will need any tweaks.15:25
carl_baldwinmlavalle: I'm now thinking it'd be very cool to install quagga on the router in your vagrant environment and play with this.15:25
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mlavallecarl_baldwin: will start looking at it15:25
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carl_baldwinmlavalle: I'm not asking you to do it. I hope to dive in to it myself. I've been meaning to brush up on my BGP skills.15:26
carl_baldwinmlavalle: I'm also not trying to discourage you from being involved if you want.15:26
mlavallecarl_baldwin: I want to be involved15:26
carl_baldwinmlavalle: cool15:26
mlavalleI also want to expand my skills ;-)15:27
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carl_baldwinAre there any questions about this one?15:28
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carl_baldwinThis is the overall plan. I wonder if we'll need a new blueprint for this or if we can continue working under the existing blueprint.15:29
carl_baldwinI'm sure a few more details will pop up as we go. But, I think the overall plan is pretty sound.15:30
mlavallewas ther a 3rd point?15:30
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carl_baldwinThe third one builds from the 2nd.15:31
carl_baldwin"Floating IPs with no router on routed networks"15:31
carl_baldwinGoDaddy is doing this already in their deployment.15:31
carl_baldwinI think it is a pretty cool idea.15:31
mlavalle"no router" meaning no Neutron router?15:31
carl_baldwinThis one also has a few steps.15:31
carl_baldwinmlavalle: Right. I should clarify that.15:32
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carl_baldwinmlavalle: good point.15:32
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carl_baldwin1. We need to be able to associate floating IPs with ports on the same routed network. Currently, the floating ip association will look for a router to handle the fip.15:33
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carl_baldwinSorry, got pulled off for a minute.15:35
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carl_baldwin2. The VM port has to have some way to accept the traffic for the floating IP.15:35
carl_baldwin^ This one could be difficult.15:36
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carl_baldwinAt GoDaddy, the VM actually knows it has the floating IP and accepts traffic destined to it.15:36
carl_baldwinI think it will be hard to generalize this.15:36
carl_baldwinAnother possibility that I thought of is doing NAT at the port.15:37
carl_baldwinI think this could use some broader discussion.15:37
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mlavallewhere would we place the iptables for that?15:38
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carl_baldwinmlavalle: Around the same place as the security groups, I guess. It is a good question. One that I haven't thought through yet.15:39
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mlavalleyeah, security gorups comes to mind15:39
mlavallehow about doing NAT with flows in the switch?15:39
haleybit should work there i think, just in a different table/chain15:39
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carl_baldwinI think this topic deserves a new RFE / spec. It doesn't really fall in the scope of the original routed networks spec.15:41
haleybno, sounds like a design change15:42
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* haleyb will just sit here and state the obvious :)15:42
carl_baldwinhaleyb: Or, at least more design that wasn't included in the original.15:42
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carl_baldwinhaleyb: It is good to get feedback, even if it is just nodding along. :)15:43
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* haleyb nods15:43
carl_baldwinI'll file an RFE with a brief description. We'll see if a spec is necessary.15:43
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carl_baldwinIs there anything else we should be doing with routed networks during Ocata?15:45
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mlavalleI think that's plenty15:45
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mlavalleLet's keep in mind that Ocata is the cycle where we rally make routed networks operational15:46
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mlavalleso we should not forget to focus on that15:46
carl_baldwinmlavalle: ++ The most important piece is the one that you're working on.15:46
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carl_baldwinSo, I think we have a few action items.15:47
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carl_baldwin1. mlavalle continues doing what he's doing15:47
carl_baldwin2. Get quagga installed on the vagrant router and deploy BGP.15:48
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carl_baldwin3. Write spec for floating IPs without neutron routers.15:48
carl_baldwinThese should get us started.15:48
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carl_baldwinI guess that's the plan then. Please let me know if you'd like to pitch in.15:49
carl_baldwin... and where15:49
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carl_baldwinI guess that's all I have for today. Anything to add?15:51
carl_baldwinGoing once...15:51
mlavalleGood meeting!15:51
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carl_baldwinmlavalle: ++15:52
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carl_baldwinGoing twice...15:52
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:52
openstackMeeting ended Tue Sep 13 15:52:21 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:52
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_routed_networks/2016/neutron_routed_networks.2016-09-13-15.02.html15:52
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_routed_networks/2016/neutron_routed_networks.2016-09-13-15.02.txt15:52
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sridhar_ram#startmeeting tacker16:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Sep 13 16:00:31 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is sridhar_ram. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.16:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:00
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sridhar_ram#topic Roll Call16:00
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sridhar_ramHi folks!16:00
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sridhar_ramGreeting everyone.. !16:02
sridhar_ramchecking few folks...16:02
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sridhar_rams3wong: tung_doan: are you here ?16:02
sridhar_ram#chair sripriya tbh bobh16:02
openstackCurrent chairs: bobh sridhar_ram sripriya tbh16:02
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sridhar_ram#topic Agenda16:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:03
sridhar_ram#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Tacker#Meeting_Sep_13th.2C_201616:04
sridhar_ramwe can take up "other" items in open discussion16:04
sridhar_ram#topic Announcements16:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:04
sridhar_ramWe are in Newton RC1 week -16:05
sridhar_ram#link https://releases.openstack.org/newton/schedule.html16:05
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sridhar_ramwe will discuss more on this..16:05
sridhar_ramnothing else to announce from my side16:05
sridhar_ramexcept.. i know bunch of Tacker devs got travel support from OpenStack Foundation and going to go to Barcelona !16:06
sridhar_rammoving on..16:06
sridhar_ram#topic Newton Release16:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Newton Release (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:07
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digasridhar_ram: I didn't get travel support unfortunately :(16:07
sridhar_ramlets wait to see if s3wong and tung_doan joins to get a status on those two last-minute feature16:07
sridhar_ramdiga: ah, too bad... hopefully next time16:07
digasridhar_ram: hope so16:08
dkushwahasridhar_ram, me too :(16:08
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sridhar_ramdkushwaha: unfortunate.. the decision making is still a bit of black box. Again, keep trying16:09
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sridhar_ramback to newton release...16:09
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sridhar_ramHere is the plan..16:09
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sridhar_rammost patchsets identified for Newton needs to land by this week..16:09
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sridhar_ramcores: please use this  etherpad to review and merge - https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/tacker-newton-release-priority16:10
s3wonghello; sorry, late16:10
sridhar_rams3wong: hi, np16:10
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sridhar_rams3wong: taking up .. newton release priority, will circle back to vnffg soon16:11
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s3wongsridhar_ram: sure16:11
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sridhar_ramFolks - anyone missing any *MUST HAVE* in newton in the above etherpad ?16:11
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digas3wong: my setup is ready, need your help for e2e VNFFG testing16:12
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sripriyasridhar_ram: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/334256/ ?16:12
sridhar_ramdiga: hang on one min, we will get to vnffg shortly16:12
s3wongdiga: great. Let's work on that offline16:12
sripriyasridhar_ram: and also https://review.openstack.org/#/c/329759/ ? i will respin it16:13
sridhar_ramsripriya: it is already in the list16:13
sripriyasridhar_ram: ah ok, sorry i missed it16:13
sridhar_ramsripriya: np..16:13
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dkushwahasridhar_ram, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/346665/16:14
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sridhar_ramsripriya: for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/329759/ .. please respin and add it to the etherpad please16:14
sripriyasridhar_ram: sure. will do16:14
sridhar_ramdkushwaha: add it to the list..16:15
sridhar_ramOne general word of caution..16:15
sridhar_ram.. your patchsets in this list need to in the healthy state.. CI shd pass fine at the minimum..16:15
sridhar_ramwe can't afford to take any collateral damage at this state..16:16
sridhar_ramanything else folks ?16:16
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sridhar_ramNow, starting next week... we need to test the heck out of the master branch..16:17
sridhar_ramI need all your help to hammer different features, horizon ui and even install steps (particularly manual install) and report any issues16:17
sridhar_ramI'll request a newton release by 2nd half of next week16:18
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sridhar_ramany general questions on newton release ?16:18
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sripriyasridhar_ram: the one thing i would request is if we cherry pick any patch to stable release and it changes the manual installation, other tham chaning the main doc, good to add that change to manual doc’s stable version16:19
sridhar_ramsripriya: that's a good point..16:19
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sridhar_ramI remember there is a patchset (from venkatamahesh) on doing various cleans in the manual install doc..16:20
sridhar_ramI'll find that and add it to the priority list..16:20
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sridhar_ramHaving the good install story is very, very important... !16:21
sripriyasridhar_ram: yes, for sure our doc needs to improve. thanks16:21
sridhar_rammoving on16:21
sridhar_ram#topic Newton-VNFFG16:21
*** openstack changes topic to "Newton-VNFFG (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:21
sridhar_rams3wong: can you give an update ?16:21
sridhar_ramdiga: ^^16:21
s3wongsridhar_ram: I think we are ready for integrated / end to end test16:22
s3wongsridhar_ram: diga has volunteered to get things going (Thanks!)16:22
s3wongsridhar_ram: the one thing missing in the patchset now is to make it a mixin with openstack infra driver16:22
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s3wong(previously trozet has volunteered to make that change... but he didn't get to it before his vacation)16:23
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sridhar_ramsripriya: you've handled the infra_driver refactoring.. what do think of the above ^^ ?16:23
digas3wong: which timezone you live in ?  so that I can work accordingly16:23
s3wongdiga: pacific daylight time16:24
sripriyasridhar_ram: sure i can take a stab at it16:24
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s3wongdiga: but I usually work on non-day-job related stuff after 10pm PDT16:24
digas3wong: :)16:24
s3wongdiga: what timezone are you at?16:24
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digas3wong: IST(India STandard Time)16:25
digas3wong: will plan for this after the meeting16:25
s3wongdiga: so 10pm here should work well with you?16:25
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digas3wong: yep16:25
s3wongdiga: cool16:26
s3wongdiga: let's get that going :-)16:26
sridhar_ramdiga: as you are doing this, can you also "write up" a devref user guide doc..16:26
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digasridhar_ram: will do16:26
s3wongsridhar_ram: so hopefully we will have good news on integration test / end2end by next meeting16:26
sridhar_rams3wong: okay16:27
s3wongsridhar_ram: that's all I have16:27
sridhar_ramFrom blueprint point of view (assuming diga will take care of the docs)..16:27
s3wong(other than that trozet has made sure everything works from VNFFG TOSCA to no-op driver .... GOOD JOB trozet!!!)16:28
sridhar_ram.. the pending item will be functional test16:28
sridhar_rams3wong: Agree, kudos to trozet .. starting from last fall where he demo'd Tacker + FFG using ODL in the OPNFV Summit.. he followed through!16:28
digasridhar_ram: will take care of it whichever remaining on the VNFFG side16:28
sridhar_ramdiga: great, thanks..16:29
digasridhar_ram: welcome!16:29
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sridhar_ramdiga: given you are testing .. both doc and func test will be appropriate for you to take up..16:29
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digasridhar_ram: yes +116:29
sridhar_rami know we might come short in time.. but please try your best16:29
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digasridhar_ram: sure16:30
sridhar_ramBeyond that, given this (and alarm monitor) are coming in late.. I think it is appropriate to mark these two features as "experimental" ..16:30
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sridhar_ramthis is to set appropriate expectation to our user community16:31
s3wongsridhar_ram: +116:31
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sridhar_ramwe will use the next cycle to fix any outstanding / corner case issues and remove the "experimental" tag16:31
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sridhar_rammoving on..16:32
sridhar_ram#topic Newton-Alarm-Monitor16:32
*** openstack changes topic to "Newton-Alarm-Monitor (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:32
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sridhar_ramlooks tung_doan is not here...16:32
dkushwahasridhar_ram, I pinged him, but no response16:32
sridhar_rambut tung_doan and dkushwaha are putting some amazing effort here..16:32
sridhar_ramdkushwaha: can you give an update ?16:33
dkushwahasridhar_ram, Mainly I were involved in testing the patch and notified to Tung, and he keep updating accordingly.16:33
sridhar_ramdkushwaha: good collaboration..!16:33
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dkushwahasridhar_ram, its running successfully16:34
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sridhar_ramdkushwaha: can you describe the scenario you tested ?16:34
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dkushwahasridhar_ram, I tried by puting high cpu load on create vm16:35
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sridhar_ramdkushwaha: what action did it trigger ?16:35
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dkushwahaand respawn is success now16:35
sridhar_ramdkushwaha: good.. did you had a chance to try "scale" action ?16:36
dkushwahai tested it for respawn only for now16:36
dkushwahasridhar_ram, not yet, but i have to test it16:36
sridhar_ramdkushwaha: okay..16:36
sripriyasridhar_ram: dkushwaha: the scale url and alarm action url are different16:36
sripriyasridhar_ram: i did not see a way to handle the scale action in create_alarm_url logic16:37
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sridhar_ramsripriya: process_alarm / receiver should bubble up to the plugin level to invoke whatever action specified in the TOSCA template16:38
sridhar_ramsripriya: if that is not happening, we have a serious "workflow" problem16:39
sridhar_rambobh: did you had a chance to review this ?16:39
bobhsridhar_ram: not yet - on my list for today/tonight16:39
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sridhar_rambobh: dkushwaha: sripriya: i'm trying to assess if this feature ...16:40
sridhar_ram(a) has progressed enough to become an "experimental" feature of Tacker16:40
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sridhar_ram(b) doesn't introduce any collateral damage16:40
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sridhar_ramif, as reviewers, can provide some feedback in next couple of days on these two aspects.. i'd really appreciate that16:41
bobhsridhar_ram: will do16:41
sripriyasridhar_ram: i have not yet looked into code in depth, but scale api expects a certain url and body which needs to be handled. i may be missing something. will get back.16:41
sridhar_rambobh: sripriya: thanks..16:42
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sridhar_ramanything else on alarm mon ?16:42
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sridhar_ram#topic Ocata Grooming16:43
*** openstack changes topic to "Ocata Grooming (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:43
sridhar_ram#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/tacker-ocata-grooming16:43
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sridhar_rammike_m: can you share you ideas around EM BP ?16:43
sridhar_ram#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tacker/+spec/em-module16:43
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mike_mthe premise of what I think this blue print is about is related to a multi-vm strategy, and coordination between them.16:44
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mike_mthink of a network service where there are different VM's, and there is a relationship between them.16:44
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mike_m(this is just one example though of FCAPS, the Config part)16:44
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mike_mif you look at juju canonical, it has a "relation" concept to associate different VM's, its very similar to that.16:45
digasridhar_ram, sripriya : I have pushed API framework spec - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/368511/16:45
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mike_mthe ETSI NVF framework also discusses this API, the "em" interface.16:46
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sridhar_rammike_m: if we take up the "C" part of FCAPS in this "relation" .. is it about supporting a sequence of "configuration" for a set of related VMs ?16:46
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mike_myes it could be.  But then the VNFM starts to become more specific, complicating the VNFM.  Imagine instead there was a EM interface, where the VNFM told some entity (the defined EM), about all the VNFs.16:48
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mike_mso maybe the VNFM tells the EM, VNF "x" is instatiated, this is the mgmt ip16:48
mike_mand so forth16:48
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sridhar_rammike_m: I see, you are proposing an Tacker VNFM interfacing with an "external16:48
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sridhar_ram... "external" EM16:49
mike_myes exactly.16:49
mike_mscaling decisions should also be allowed by this external EM16:49
vishwanathjjust wanted to make sure that EM is Element Manager, right?16:49
mike_mI see this interface becoming an East/West API16:50
sridhar_rammike_m: mgmt_driver framework that we have served this purpose to some extent.. announce a VNF is instantiated to the ODL controller to do "something"16:50
mike_mthats right, Element Manager as per ETSI NFV16:50
mike_myes, have been looking at the mgmt_driver, so that it could do something like that, but i think it needs additional APIs.16:51
sridhar_rammike_m: here is my suggestion.. i think we could use a small google doc writeup (with some simple diagrams) to illusrtate this further.. is that something you can take up ?16:51
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mike_msridhar_ram: sure I can do that16:51
sridhar_rammike_m: thanks.. as we wind down newton release, we can use more mtg time to dig this further..16:52
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mike_msridhar_ram: thanks for the time to explain.16:52
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sridhar_ramdiga: noted, good to see API framework spec starting..16:53
sridhar_ramI'd like to step back a bit and ask the team to think the bigger picture for Ocata...16:53
sridhar_ramso far we have kind of went with the flow of a roadmap and picked the top things on the list and executed..16:54
sridhar_ramGoing forward it will good to have a specific "theme" for an upcoming release and have the whole team converge and "make it happen" instead of the community spreading thin on 10 to 15 different things16:54
sridhar_ramThoughts ?16:55
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* sridhar_ram notes 4mins left16:56
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sridhar_ramHere is my suggestion along those lines ..16:56
sridhar_rambucket-1) over-arching theme for Ocata - enable an healthy eco-system of infra drivers - vmware, aws, kubenetes16:57
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sridhar_rambucket-2) wrap up left overs - VNFC, NSD, TOSCA CSAR16:57
sridhar_rambucket-3)  project maintenance - API framework, OSC, deprecation16:57
sridhar_ramPlease think in these term / buckets16:58
sripriyasridhar_ram: +1 to the bucket slots16:58
sridhar_ramthere could be other buckets too.. but we can't have too many as we will lose focus16:58
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sridhar_ramI'll put Ocata as the top agenda for next meeting...16:58
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sridhar_ramplease come w/ your thoughts so that we can start making the final "goals" for Tacker Ocata release16:59
digasridhar_ram: +1 - nice plan16:59
sridhar_ramsripriya: diga: thanks!16:59
sridhar_ramwe are out of time today..16:59
sridhar_ramtalk to you all next week .. specially on Ocata!17:00
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sridhar_rambye everyone17:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Sep 13 17:00:18 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-09-13-16.00.html17:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-09-13-16.00.txt17:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-09-13-16.00.log.html17:00
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stevemarping ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, crinkle, claudiub, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, gagehugo, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, jaugustine, joesavak, jorge_munoz, knikolla, lbragstad, MaxPC, morgan, nishaYadav, nkinder, notmorgan, raildo, rodrigods, rderose, roxanaghe, samleon, samueldmq, shaleh, stevemar, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong, xek18:00
stevemar#startmeeting keystone18:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Sep 13 18:00:14 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is stevemar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:00
stevemarhey everyone!18:00
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raildoolá! o/18:00
stevemartopol: joining us today :)18:01
stevemarhenrynash is AFK, on a plane18:01
gagehugono wifi?18:01
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stevemargagehugo: excuses excuses eh18:01
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jaugustine$10 for a flight ?! pshhh18:01
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stevemar#link agenda: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting18:02
stevemarhey bknudson18:02
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stevemari think we're at a close enough consensus18:02
stevemarwe need ayoung and lbragstad eventually18:02
ayoungI was here first18:02
stevemaranteaya: tru tru18:02
lbragstadstevemar i'm here homes18:02
stevemarayoung: damn18:02
stevemari give up18:02
lbragstadstevemar need a nap?18:03
ayoung2 laws of thermo18:03
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stevemar#topic project stuff18:03
*** openstack changes topic to "project stuff (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:03
ayoung1.  you can't win, best you can do is break even18:03
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ayoung2.  you can't break even18:03
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stevemarif you're interested in serving as PTL, send a review request18:03
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stevemari think to here: https://github.com/openstack/election18:03
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dolphmmailing list is also appreciated / helps advertise your candidacy, but it's not a required step anymore18:04
stevemardolphm: ++18:04
stevemar#topic newton release status18:04
*** openstack changes topic to "newton release status (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:04
stevemarwe'll be tagging RC1 this week18:04
samueldmqhi keystoners18:05
stevemarso keep an eye out for critical bugs18:05
ayoungwhere are we WRT  KSA and KC releases relative to the Newton release?18:05
bknudsonlooks like requirements is incorrect18:05
bknudsonso should get that fixed before release18:05
stevemarayoung: those are closed out18:05
stevemarbknudson: requirements meaning the blocking out a specific ksm version?18:06
stevemari saw a bug for that this morning18:06
jamielennoxbknudson: which requirements are incorrect? they're frozen now18:06
stevemarbknudson: we can ask for that, but they are frozen18:06
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bknudsonthen we need to revert a bunch of changes that require a newer version of ksm18:06
stevemarsomeone want to create a patch for that? and push it to requirements?18:06
openstackLaunchpad bug 1623091 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "keystonemidleware dependency should be > 4.0.0" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to tamil vanan (tamilhce)18:07
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ayoungsomeone locked the python-requests-Kerberos version out, but only for Py3+ ...more KSA brokeness due to global deps18:07
stevemarOK, i guess i'll submit a patch to requirements18:08
stevemarbknudson: let's hope the requirements team allows it18:09
stevemardolphm: you opened bug 1623117 recently, is that needed?18:09
openstackbug 1623117 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "Prevent keystone from serving requests when schema or data migrations are not up to date" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/162311718:09
bknudsonprobably won't like it since this will affect several projects18:09
dolphmstevemar: not strictly, but it's something that if we have a fix ready for ocata, i'd like to slip it into the newton release IF we have an actual release blocker to warrant a respin / etc18:10
ayoungI like that one18:10
stevemardolphm: fair enough, i'll mark it as rc-potential18:10
dolphmstevemar: ++18:10
ayoungit will catch pain at a reportable point in the deploy process18:10
dolphmayoung: ++18:10
stevemarlast one is bug 162120018:11
openstackbug 1621200 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "MySQLOpportunisticIdentityDriverTestCase.test_change_password fails in UTC+N timezone" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1621200 - Assigned to Ron De Rose (ronald-de-rose)18:11
ayoung"It is never a keystone bug"18:11
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stevemarrderose and breton have been hacking away at it18:11
stevemarwhats the news there you two18:11
rderoseI have fix that address that bug and another issue with the timestamp default18:12
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stevemarrderose: is the bug not reflective of the change?18:12
stevemarcause i thought it was just a test issue18:12
rderosestevemar: no, the other issue is that the created_at value may not be UTC with the default datetime18:13
rderoseI'll update the bug to include that18:13
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stevemarrderose: yeah, i'll mark it as rc-potential, i'm not sure its a blocker18:13
rderosethe patch is mostly ready, but we're having an issue with the migration tests running out of order18:13
ayoungserver_default=sqlalchemy.func.now()  that is new to me18:14
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rderosestevemar: dstanek is working on that issue. my patch will likely be based off of his fix18:14
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stevemarrderose: okay, we could probably slip it into rc2 if needed, i'll re-evaluate once you update the bug18:15
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bretonstevemar: rderose: i have a much simpler fix18:15
dstanekrderose: i'm not working on the timestamp issue at all. is that what you are talking about?18:15
rderoseayoung: recommended by zzzeek at the time, but problematic with some versions of mysql18:15
bretonstevemar: rderose: and actually i am not sure which bug rderose tries to fix :p18:15
rderosedstanek: no, tests running out of order issue18:15
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ayoungyeah, looks strange.  Why but default is not sufficient because not-null needs a value ?18:15
notmorganayoung: pretty much18:16
dstanekrderose: yeah, that i'm looking into18:16
rderosebreton stevemar: https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1621200 + the UTC issue18:16
openstackLaunchpad bug 1621200 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "MySQLOpportunisticIdentityDriverTestCase.test_change_password fails in UTC+N timezone" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Ron De Rose (ronald-de-rose)18:16
notmorganrule 1 of keystone: ALWAYS store/convert/workwith date time objects in UTC/TZ agnostic forms18:17
notmorganrule 2 of keystone: see rule 118:17
bretoni proposed https://review.openstack.org/#/c/367374/ and it worked for me, since i reported the bug :p18:17
bretonso maybe a new bugreport needs to be opened for what Ron's doing18:17
notmorganrule 3: if you're relying on the system clock to be consistent in tests, you're doing it wrong. control the clock in tests directly18:18
rderosebreton: I don't trust that it will work for all versions of mysql18:18
bknudsonmaybe our unit tests could set a random timezone18:18
rderosenotmorgan: agree18:18
ayoungwhy is that not: server_default=datetime.datetime.utcnow18:18
notmorganayoung: because that is calculated once iirc18:18
bknudsonserver_default is calculated on mysql server18:19
rderoseayoung: server_default=datetime.datetime.utcnow doesn't work for setting the server default18:19
notmorganbknudson: ah wait that is passed to the server yeah no doesn'tmwork then18:19
notmorganit's not python18:19
dstanekusually i use something like server_default='CURRENT_TIMESTAMP'18:19
ayoungOK, no.18:19
dstaneki don't think python code will work there18:19
ayoungthat is not what is meant by not null18:19
notmorganso, uhm. this is a bad plan to set a datetime default at the server level18:20
bknudsonyou might want to look at what sqlalchemy generates for the SQL18:20
ayoungthat is making a null value that is just trash18:20
notmorgandon't do that.18:20
ayoungit says "the user can insert a row and if they don'18:20
ayoungt provide a value, one will be provided for them"18:20
notmorganthis is going to make you sad because you're getting whatever TZ the server is in18:20
ayoungwhich is not what we want18:20
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ayoungso...no there should not be a server_default18:20
notmorgandstanek: ^18:20
rderosedstanek: server_default='CURRENT_TIMESTAMP' will automatically update the timestamp column whenever any other column is updated18:20
ayoungit should be a Not Null column, with a value required to be passed in when a record is created...am I wrong?18:21
notmorganayoung: or a server default can be set to a known bad value (0?) that we can directly check for.18:21
notmorganbut same argument18:21
ayoungOr does SQL A somehow make it painful18:21
bknudsonyou can't add a not null column without a default value18:21
rderoseayoung: my latest patch is removing the server_default18:21
ayoungnotmorgan, I don't want to "check" I want it to be required at dataload18:21
ayoungrderose, excellent18:21
bknudsonmaybe you can drop the default value after adding the column.18:21
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notmorganbknudson: unlikely18:22
ayounganyway...not for this meeting...drive on18:22
ayoungshout if it is readyu for review18:22
bretonbtw: the bug i reported happens to me only on unit tests18:22
* ayoung adding myself18:22
bretonnot in production18:22
stevemarthank you ayoung18:22
stevemarlet's discuss the timezone thing in -keystone18:23
bknudsonbreton: do you have a different timezone in production servers?18:23
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notmorganagain, our code and tests are wrong if we rely on system TZ ever.18:23
notmorganwe should make sure we aren't18:23
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notmorganbut carry on in -keystone after meeting18:23
bretonbknudson: my localhost production keystone doesn't suffer that :p18:23
stevemarrderose: sounds like you need more investigation here18:23
stevemarmove to -keystone for this later, bah18:24
stevemar#topic encrypted credentials update18:24
*** openstack changes topic to "encrypted credentials update (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:24
ayoungso, while painful, this is not a stop ship.  It sounds like a test only issue, and should be fixed in the tests18:24
rderosestevemar: will do18:24
stevemarjust a quick note that i wanted to give lbragstad a round of applause for saving our bacon last week18:24
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ayoungmost of the patches are throug Tripleo, so I think I'm good on encrypted creds18:24
stevemartripleo / rdo was broken cause of the credential encryption work, and required key setup18:24
ayoungof course, that is a brushoff to the rest of the installers18:25
lbragstadfwiw - we added support to grenade for a proper update18:25
stevemarbut lbragstad came up huge by including a null key if no fernet keys are seen18:25
stevemarso thanks! :D18:25
rderoselbragstad: ++18:25
samueldmqlbragstad: thanks18:25
ayounghttps://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:keystone/credentials   all merged  and I wanted to keep lance's work quiet so they got through18:25
bknudsonmore great work from lbragstad18:25
lbragstadit was dolphm's idea, i was just the gnome that did the finger work ;)18:26
stevemarit made ayoung happy, you know it was hard!18:26
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stevemarwell thanks to dolphm too :)18:26
dolphmgo lbragstad go18:26
lbragstadglad we got something worked out, thanks for all the reviews18:26
ayoungActually, forcint Tripleo to be able to support encrypted creds and fernet made me happy, I just didn't want to be too obvious about it18:26
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stevemarayoung: :)18:27
stevemarayoung: you're up next18:27
stevemarand possibly jamielennox18:27
stevemar#topic Bug 968696 update18:27
*** openstack changes topic to "Bug 968696 update (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:27
openstackbug 968696 in Glance ""admin"-ness not properly scoped" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/968696 - Assigned to Sharat Sharma (sharat-sharma)18:27
* stevemar cue the daunting music, DUM DUM DUM18:27
ayoungSo...according to Jamie, we stil have 2-3 services that are not compliant18:27
samueldmq968696 I know that number18:27
stevemari've lost track of what is left to do for this one18:27
ayoungto get this bug fixed required changes to Keystone (long done)18:27
ayoungthen oslo-context18:28
ayoungalso long sinve done18:28
samueldmqstevemar: ++18:28
stevemarayoung: all good so far :)18:28
jamielennoxi think we have the majority of services not compliant18:28
samueldmqayoung: could you give a quick recap in what's the plan ? what's missing ?18:28
ayoungand then each of the services needed to load all of the value from oslo conf to policy check18:28
jamielennoxall the oslo.context work is done, and most took on the helper functions that are needed18:28
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ayoungso there are patches out for nova nca cinder, and one not even written for neutron18:28
ayoungbottom line, we are not going to have this closed out for Newton18:29
jamielennoxthe last step is to make them use context.to_policy_values() as the dict, however this is a bit more of a concern for most projects as we are changing the values that go into the policy engine18:29
jamielennoxand keeping compatibility there is harder than you would think18:29
ayoungand https://review.openstack.org/#/c/341905/  are examples of what needs to happen18:29
stevemarayoung: jamielennox simple enough changes18:30
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stevemarayoung & jamielennox what do you need from the keystone team, or is this striclty an update?18:31
jamielennoxthey are, but technically backwards incompatible because currently everyone drops context.to_dict into the enforcement18:31
stevemardo you need some of us to patch other projects?18:31
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ayoungjamielennox, why is is_admin_project not part of that?18:31
stevemarcan i help with that by allocating a fishbowl to this topic?18:31
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jamielennoxayoung: is_admin_project comes from the base context object18:32
jamielennoxstevemar: i've had a request to do an oslo.context as a cross-project already18:32
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jamielennoxstevemar: i need to follow up on that, just not sure with whom at the moment18:32
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ayoungI still don't get it18:32
stevemarjamielennox: sounds good to me18:33
ayoungdo we need to inject is_admin_project into  context.to_dict ?  Why would that break anything?18:33
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jamielennoxayoung: https://github.com/openstack/oslo.context/blob/master/oslo_context/context.py#L13618:33
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jamielennoxayoung: no, i want to stop people using to_dict because it throws a whole lot of crap into policy enforcement that there is no reasonable way you would ever want to use18:34
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jamielennoxi just need to convince people it's ok to let that stuff go18:34
stevemarayoung & jamielennox thanks for the update18:34
stevemarcan we move on?18:35
stevemar#topic The identity v3 gate (non-voting) is broken18:35
*** openstack changes topic to "The identity v3 gate (non-voting) is broken (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:35
stevemarlooks like raildo already volunteered to look at this18:35
stevemarit's been failing for a month :(18:35
dolphmthis is the devstack job that does not run v2?18:35
stevemarits a devstack job18:35
stevemardolphm: i believe so18:36
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raildo_yes, i`ve been working on it in the last months, and I want to help on it18:36
notmorganhaving it not have teeth is the same as not testing. it will continue to break unless we get it working.18:36
jamielennoxthanks raildo, i hadn't noticed this18:36
notmorganand make it voting18:36
raildo_jamielennox: np18:36
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raildo_dolphm: yes, it is18:37
stevemar#link bug that is seen: https://bugs.launchpad.net/tempest/+bug/162099918:37
openstackLaunchpad bug 1620999 in tempest "gate-tempest-dsvm-neutron-identity-v3-only-full-nv 100% failure rate" [Undecided,New]18:37
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stevemarthey are posting the removal since clarkb is moving it from trusty to xenial18:37
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raildo_stevemar: ++18:37
samueldmqas the goal is now to get it voting18:38
samueldmqwe need to make sure they're stable18:38
stevemarraildo_: i'll leave it to you to look at, i'll put it on next weeks agenda for an update18:38
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raildo_the problem is when the devstack try to get the image in glance, it`s not related to keystone v318:38
samueldmqotherwise project teams won't want to add it as voting18:38
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raildo_stevemar: ok, thanks18:38
jamielennoxright, the problem is this one gets broken because other teams don't configure for v318:38
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stevemarraildo_: i suggest you see what went into glance around the time it started to fail18:39
raildo_samueldmq: ++ the idea is to make this voting asap18:39
ayoungok, is this service catalog nonsense?18:39
jamielennoxthe intent was to get it voting to stop that from happening18:39
samueldmqraildo_: if it is not related to keystone v3, there is a proejct that CI is broken for 1+ month?18:39
ayoungI notice that, at least in tripleo, we append versions to the URLs in the service catalog18:39
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ayoungso the identiyt one ends int /v2.018:39
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stevemarayoung: no one has any clue what the cause of this is, we're just guessing, no one has actually done any investigation18:39
raildo_samueldmq: CI is broken because they couldn`t set the job properly, since this glance image issue18:39
stevemari'd rather not toss darts blindly, it was just a PSA for someone to look at it18:40
samueldmqraildo_: ok18:40
raildo_samueldmq: but i have to investigate deeper18:40
samueldmqraildo_: I suggest to keep a very close eye on the jobs if we want to get them voting :)18:40
dolphmraildo_: thank you!18:40
samueldmqraildo_: kk gotcha, thanks for working on it18:40
dolphmwe should make that job voting around summit time :)18:40
stevemardolphm: ++ thanks for looking at it raildo_18:40
raildo_samueldmq: i wil :)18:40
bknudsondevstack doesn't put /v2.0 on the identity endpoint anymore18:41
stevemarmoving on, i like this next topic18:41
raildo_dolphm: stevemar no problem, I hope to get it fixed asap18:41
stevemar#topic Newton post-mortem18:41
*** openstack changes topic to "Newton post-mortem (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:41
ayoungHe was killed by an apple18:41
stevemarthe Neutron team is having one: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/360207/1218:41
dolphmba dum tsh18:41
stevemarayoung: thats actually pretty funny, +118:42
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dolphmstevemar: ayoung: +118:42
stevemari usually just clean up the spec repo, but i like this idea18:42
ayoungWe want to have it prior to the summit, I assume18:42
stevemari've always found it frustrating that we just skimp on docs, testing, and client changes, when we mark the BP for the server complete18:42
stevemari think having a post mortem would hold feet to the fire, before we continue implementing new features18:43
bknudsonidentifying technical debt?18:43
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stevemar*cough* domain specific config support for keystoneclient18:43
ayoungThat was my original complaint about specs.  I felt that that they should have bee written as docs, and had a lifespan accordingly18:43
stevemarbknudson: is that what we're calling it now? :)18:43
stevemarthoughts on trying this out?18:44
ayoungare there rules to the game?18:44
stevemarayoung: no rules, and the points don't count!18:44
stevemarayoung: honestly, none yet, i think we just want to identify where we missed18:44
ayoung"Alex, I'll take lighting things on fire for 500"18:44
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bknudsonI think of a postmortem as "what went well, what didn't go well"18:44
stevemarand tack on names for things that missed18:45
stevemarbknudson: i'm used to that definition too18:45
dstanekwhat's missing is a task management system of some sort18:45
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stevemarbknudson: maybe port mortem isn't the right term here, but it would be "did we actually deliver on what we initially scoped"18:45
stevemardstanek: yeah18:45
ayoungone thing that the AAR format suggests is a neutral 3rd party to moderate18:45
dstanekwe software engineer without the engineer... so do we just software?18:45
stevemarOK, let me take this as a TODO and repropose this in a few days18:46
stevemari'll think of the outcomes I want to see18:46
samueldmqstevemar: ++18:46
lbragstaddstanek please software responsibly18:46
stevemarkeep an eye on the mailing list18:46
dolphmlbragstad: ++18:46
bknudsonhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/360207/12/specs/newton/postmortem/postmortem.rst -- here's the doc18:47
stevemar#topic Mitaka status18:47
*** openstack changes topic to "Mitaka status (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:47
stevemarwe've got 2 different attempts to backport dstanek's cache fix18:47
bretoni am working on it18:48
stevemarbreton: awesome18:48
bretonand have only 2 tests failing18:48
stevemarthat sounds promising18:48
bretona lot of things changed from mitaka to newton.18:48
dstanekit's hard to duplicate awesome18:48
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dstanek... which one is closer?18:48
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stevemarwe've got a few changes in stable/mitaka that haven't been released yet: https://github.com/openstack/keystone/compare/9.1.0...stable/mitaka18:49
stevemarso it would be nice to get the cache fix in, and we release 9.2.018:50
bretonmine i guess18:50
stevemarsince in a few weeks it'll be n-2 and only security fixes get merged :(18:50
dstanekbreton: cool, i'll review that one today then18:50
stevemarthanks dstanek18:50
stevemartodo, breton to code, dstanek tor review, stevemar to propose new release when ready18:51
stevemarlbragstad: got 9 minutes!18:51
stevemar#topic Update on making fernet the default18:51
*** openstack changes topic to "Update on making fernet the default (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:51
lbragstadwell - here it is18:51
lbragstad#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/345688/1918:51
stevemari've seen a lot of action for this lately, thanks for picking this one up18:52
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lbragstadthat patch is dependent on everything needed to make fernet the default token provider18:52
lbragstadlooks to be passing the transient issue we noticed the first time we made the switch18:52
lbragstadwhich appears to be a mysql rounding thing18:52
lbragstadI've doc'd that here - https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/162201018:53
openstackLaunchpad bug 1622010 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "MySQL rounds timestamps" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Lance Bragstad (lbragstad)18:53
samueldmqlbragstad: you merged a fix for that (mysql rounding up the timestamp) ?18:53
lbragstadsamueldmq i didn't merge it - i just proposed one solution18:53
lbragstadhappy to see others though18:53
samueldmqlbragstad: ++18:53
samueldmqso, other solutions could be :18:53
ayoungCan we hack the tests in Tempest instead?18:53
samueldmqstore subsecond precision in another column18:53
ayoung"we never promised that a revoked token would be seen immeditatly, your tests are too aggresive"18:54
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dolphmayoung: ++18:54
bknudsonwe couldn't promise that anyways due to caching18:54
ayoung"revocations will not be visible for 5 minutes.  Deal with it"18:54
samueldmqor just have a long int column storing the time18:54
lbragstadayoung the issue is when mysql would round a timestamp up18:54
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stevemarayoung: i think that is fair18:54
samueldmqlbragstad: and that is an issue18:55
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dolphmsamueldmq: if you go that route, it'd be far easier to just store a bigger integer in one column and divide it by 10^x to get the subsecond precision you want18:55
samueldmqdolphm: yes, just listed as the second option .. ^ have a long int column storing the time (from 1970s I think)18:55
stevemarlbragstad: have you spoke with sdague and the qa team about this?18:56
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stevemargive them plenty of heads up18:56
samueldmqand we can be as precise as we want to be, without worring about rounding/truncating anything18:56
lbragstadstevemar about making fernet the default?18:56
stevemarlbragstad: yes18:56
lbragstadstevemar I figured we would only consider that once ocata opens18:56
stevemarlbragstad: that'll be in 2 weeks or so :P18:57
lbragstadbut yes - we'll for sure need to give them a heads up18:57
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stevemarbut OK, i guess it can wait18:57
lbragstadstevemar i have a list under the topic on the meeting etherpad asking who we need to update18:57
lbragstador reach out to,18:57
lbragstadis anyone else aware of other groups that need to be on that list?18:57
samueldmqI think a cp thread would be nice18:58
samueldmqto let everyone know what our intentions are18:58
stevemartalking with the the install guide folks will be an interesting talk18:58
stevemarit does complicate setup18:58
samueldmqstevemar: ++18:59
bknudsoncan we do the same null-keys trick with fernet?18:59
samueldmqit's nice we have dedicated teams for those thigns18:59
bknudsonthat would be dangerous18:59
stevemarbknudson: you'll still be left with a bearer token18:59
stevemarlbragstad: i'll add to the list if i think of more19:00
stevemarlbragstad: probably RDO / tripleo19:00
samueldmqyes, you token is : role:admin,project:admin19:00
lbragstadwe'll it's a bearer token regardless, you're just make it easier for attackers to create their own19:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Sep 13 19:00:14 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:00
samueldmqthansk all19:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-09-13-18.00.html19:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-09-13-18.00.txt19:00
stevemarthanks for attending all!19:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-09-13-18.00.log.html19:00
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fungiinfra team, assemble!19:00
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* jeblair attaches arms19:01
jeblair17:32 <jeblair> i feel like there may be some kind of miscommunication19:01
fungithere are no topics on the agenda, so this will probably be over quickly...19:01
anteayaha ha ha19:01
anteayalove it19:01
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* jesusaur lurks19:02
fungi#startmeeting infra19:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Sep 13 19:02:36 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:02
fungi#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting19:02
fungi#topic Announcements19:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)"19:02
fungi#info pleia2 published a book along with mfisch!19:02
fungi#link http://www.informit.com/store/common-openstack-deployments-real-world-examples-for-9780134086231 "Common OpenStack Deployments: Real-World Examples for Systems Administrators and Engineers"19:02
fungithis is awesome19:03
mordredwoot pleia219:03
pleia2very exciting, worked on it with mfisch and crinkle helped a bunch too19:03
fungiany good quotes? are you going to be hosting a book signing anywhere?19:03
pleia2I'll have copies at the openstack summit, signing TBD19:03
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fungialso a dramatic reading would be awesome19:03
pleia2I do have an appendix about contributing, where infra is heavily featured19:04
pleia2I even managed to remove jenkins from the diagrams before printing19:04
fungii could only have hoped ;)19:04
anteayayay book19:04
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anteayayay crinkle19:04
fungi#info Reminder: late-cycle joint Infra/QA get together to be held September 19-21 (CW38) in at SAP offices in Walldorf, DE19:04
fungi#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Sprints/QAInfraNewtonSprint19:04
fungistill 3 slots open before you have to get on the waiting list19:04
timrcfungi should do the audio for audible19:05
fungilooks like AJaeger says he's coming for a day too19:05
timrcBecause he's not busy enough.19:05
notmorganfungi: unfortunately I am going to pass. I really just don't have sitting on a plane that long in me.19:05
notmorganmordred: ^ cc19:05
jeblairfor anyone *not* going, knuth is giving a lecture on metafont at the sfpl19:06
funginotmorgan: yeah, i'm passing this time as well, but will keep the home fires burning with the release looming so everyone can focus on sprinting19:06
pleia2thanks for holding down the fort, fungi19:06
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clarkbnotmorgan: its direct from pdx!19:06
notmorganfungi: lmk if I can be of help on that front too.19:06
clarkbthat was a big part in me caving to go19:06
funginotmorgan: i will indeed!19:06
notmorganclarkb: that is part of the issue. I can't sit on the plane atm :(19:07
fungi#topic Actions from last meeting19:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:07
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fungi#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-09-06-19.03.html19:07
fungifungi Test whether gerrit flush-caches significantly reduces memory utilization in Gerrit's JVM19:07
fungii guess i forgot, but will try to test later this week, sorry!19:07
fungi#action fungi Test whether gerrit flush-caches significantly reduces memory utilization in Gerrit's JVM19:07
fungipleia2 set up sprint booking for infra bug day19:07
fungi#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/VirtualSprints#Infra_Bug_Day Infra Bug Day19:07
fungisomebody's on the ball19:08
anteayathat's tomorrow yeah?19:08
anteayaokay great, thanks19:08
fungi#info Infra Bug Day September 14, 2016 (tomorrow) at 16:00 UTC in #openstack-sprint19:08
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pleia2#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2016-September/004722.html19:09
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fungithanks pleia2!19:09
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fungialso a reminder, for those who can make it, the storyboard weekly meeting is the hour before the sprint starts19:10
Zarawe can give you a heads up on any ui changes from last time...19:10
fungithat's in #openstack-meeting19:10
fungi#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/#StoryBoard_Meeting StoryBoard Meeting19:11
fungi#topic Specs approval19:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)"19:12
fungi#info "Docs Publishing via AFS" added to Priority Efforts list/topics19:12
fungi#link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/doc-publishing.html Docs Publishing via AFS19:12
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fungijust documenting that we're putting a bit of a rush on this one since we don't want to be evicted from cloudsites before we're done :/19:12
jeblairi started working on that today, i may have some things to ask others to help with soon19:12
anteayajeblair: andreas offered to help you19:13
fungiAJaeger also indicated he'd be interested in collaborating in person on this on tuesday of the sprint in walldorf19:13
fungiyeah, that19:13
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jeblaircool; i'm hoping this won't take up too much sprint time19:13
mordredjeblair: let me know if I can be helpful and stuff19:13
ianwalso happy to help, if i can19:13
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ianwAJaeger and I have some cross-over time in my afternoon19:14
fungicool. and if you need continuation in american timezones after you all hit the biergarten, let me know19:14
fungii don't expect to run an infra team meeting that day anyway19:14
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fungibut have a few liters of hels for me19:14
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pleia2no problem :)19:15
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fungi#topic Priority Efforts19:15
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Meeting topic: infra)"19:15
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fungiother than the aforementioned addition here, nothing to report it seems from the agenda19:15
fungiany last-minute additions for priority efforts updates?19:16
clarkbxenialification continues19:16
fungiresistance is futile?19:16
clarkbpretty much. I am learning things that I hope will be good input for zuulv3 too19:16
fungi#topic Priority Efforts: Newton testing on Xenial19:16
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts: Newton testing on Xenial (Meeting topic: infra)"19:16
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notmorgantimrc: not buffalo chips though.19:24
fungiopenstack is back!19:24
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fungibut clarkb is not (yet)19:24
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zigoLet's move to OFTC... :P19:24
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ianychoiWow openstack !19:24
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* zigo sets the topic to OFTC migration ... :P19:24
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fungithere's clarkb19:24
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fungiclarkb: care to repeat your comments about Newton testing on Xenial?19:24
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anteayathe bot missed everything after fungi set the topic19:24
fungizigo: if only we could... we discussed it more than once but i think freenode would have to be down for a week before the community would begrudgingly relocate19:24
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clarkbswift and nova are basically done at this point19:25
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clarkbI am learning things that will likely be good feedback for zuulv319:25
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clarkb(basically we shouldn't ocnflate where jobs run with what jobs run)19:25
fungiand what was with that broken xenialing patch from last night?19:26
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fungior is that what you're talking about?19:26
clarkbthank you for the reviews and feel free to push changes too19:26
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clarkbya basically I got into this deep hole that kept getting deeper with the way we use jjb19:26
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clarkbI wanted to convert the identity-v3-only jobs all to xenial because they are already >= newton only and non voting19:26
fungiokay, so basically just that heavy reliance on templates which are overly-parameterized can make this harder rather than easier?19:27
clarkbbut it turns out we share the definition with most of those with a ton of other jobs too19:27
fungiand risk turning it into a big-bang migration?19:27
fungigranted, the "old" way we did it for precise->trusty was all big-bang19:27
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fungiso using duplicate jobs with different names gives us the opportunity to migrate piecemeal, but maybe sometimes it's just the illusion of being able to do that19:28
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clarkband it worked well for the jobs that qa/infra curate more directly19:28
clarkbwe mostly seem to run into problems where projects have gone off and done their own thing (and cargo culted things between each other)19:29
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fungioh, right there were also, e.g., neutron jobs with hacky kernel module and userspace updates that were working around too-old versions in trusty that complicated things19:29
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clarkbthough figuring that out is still ongoing so not sure what the end result will be there19:30
clarkbbut overall things are going well I think19:30
fungiand there was also something to do with the loosely-devstack-based functional test jobs for the "lessons learned" pile?19:30
fungior was that the same as the hacky upgrade workarounds?19:31
clarkbI think thats the same hacky upgrade workarounds19:31
fungiokay, cool, so not as bad as i thought at least19:31
clarkbbasically what happens is we put a ton of effort into making sure things work and we deploy it to the "core" set of jobs19:31
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clarkbthen later we find out that people have hacked around what is sane to do random things and it breaks the assumptions that our deployment just works everywhere because of devstack/d-g19:32
fungigot it. anything else?19:32
clarkbthats about it19:32
* mordred hands clarkb a sandwich19:32
clarkbfound a bug in d-g reproduce.sh19:32
clarkbmy fix fails unittests so fixing is ongoing19:32
fungianybody else have questions/concerns about the xenial jobs transition?19:32
fungii guess my main concern is making sure we impress upon projects that the switch needs to happen _soon_19:33
fungireleasing with half of openstack newton tested on xenial and half tested on trusty seems like it would be bad19:33
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mordredwhat could possibly go wrong?19:34
fungiand then we'd have to decide whether we push to migrate remaining stable/newton jobs to xenial or support trusty for an additional cycle after mitaka is eol19:34
clarkbI think I would push to migrate to xenial more19:34
clarkbbecause really the only issues we have found are where we are actually broken19:34
clarkband not because xenial is broken (assuming the neutron tests turn out to be related to the custom compiles)19:35
fungii tend to agree, but if we end up in that situation we need to make sure we've got buy-off from the stable-maint team19:35
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fungior at least they need to go into it being aware of the situation19:36
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fungi#topic Open discussion19:36
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)"19:36
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fungianybody have anything else while everyone's here?19:36
pleia2any suggested prep for the sprint next week?19:37
anteayahave fun in germany everyone19:37
fungipleia2: make sure your gertty's synced before you get on the plane? ;)19:37
pleia2the usual ;)19:37
fungidon't forget to bring a towel?19:37
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jeblairbrush up on the zuulv3 spec :)19:38
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fungiif your gertty is in sync and you're subscribed to openstack-infra/infra-specs (i hope you all review infra-specs!) then you've got a copy of all the (proposed _and_ approved) specs already ;)19:39
mtreinishpleia2: heh, memorize the mqtt protocol spec :)19:39
anteayaha ha ha19:40
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anteayalike reading just isn't enough19:40
fungilooks like we can end this and give everyone a 20-minute break before the tc meeting19:40
anteayafungi: thank you19:40
anteayattx: no?19:40
ttxjust kidding19:40
fungii took that as a surprise "boo" like a ghost19:41
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fungithe tc is hiding in wait19:41
anteayaI took it as negation19:41
anteayafungi: i like your interpretation better19:41
mtreinishfungi: not boo as in boo-urns?19:41
fungii try to find the most amusing interpretation of any ambiguous statement. gives me more entertainment value19:41
anteayaI should watch more cartoons19:42
fungimtreinish: that works for an entertaining interpretation19:42
* fungi was _not_ saying boo-urns, unlike hans moleman19:42
fungithanks everyone!19:42
fungioh, wait, i should info the skipping of the meeting before i end this19:42
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fungi#info The Infra team meeting for next week (September 20) will not be held, but we will resume our normal meeting schedule on Tuesday the 27th19:43
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fungithanks everyone, and enjoy walldorf!19:44
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:44
openstackMeeting ended Tue Sep 13 19:44:19 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:44
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-09-13-19.02.html19:44
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-09-13-19.02.txt19:44
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-09-13-19.02.log.html19:44
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* dhellmann pastes random characters into his buffer, too20:00
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annegentlewinking snowman?20:00
ttxyours look a lot more organized20:00
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dhellmannttx: it took an infinite number of monkeys to produce that sequence20:00
ttxdims, dtroyer, johnthetubaguy, mtreinish, thingee, mordred, russellb, sdague: around ?20:00
mordredhey ttx20:00
ttxflaper87 is excused20:00
* edleafe stands up in the back of the room20:01
ttxI think that makes 7, let's get started20:01
dimsannegentle : LOL20:01
ttx#startmeeting tc20:01
thingeeo/ <-- back from vacation20:01
edleafehey dtroyer_zz - wake up!20:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Sep 13 20:01:26 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"20:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'20:01
annegentlewelcome back thingee20:01
ttxOur agenda for today:20:01
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* dtroyer_zz kicks bouncer again20:01
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee20:01
ttx(remember to use #info #idea and #link liberally to make for a more readable summary)20:01
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ttx#topic Add Sukhdev as extra-atc for ironic20:02
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*** openstack changes topic to "Add Sukhdev as extra-atc for ironic (Meeting topic: tc)"20:02
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/36689020:02
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* jroll lurks20:02
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ttxAs mentioned in the commit message, it's past the deadline for elections or summit discounts20:02
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ttxBut that should not prevent us from approving that one20:02
jrollyep, this is for the future20:02
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ttxLooks like overwhelming support, will approve now unless someone objects20:02
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ttxok approved20:03
ttx#topic Tags for devstack and tempest plugins20:03
annegentlethanks jroll for explaining to Sukhdev20:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Tags for devstack and tempest plugins (Meeting topic: tc)"20:03
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jrollannegentle: no problem :)20:03
ttxmtreinish proposed the addition of two new tags in the same vein as type:horizon-plugin20:03
ttx* Add tag for devstack plugins (https://review.openstack.org/366301)20:03
ttx* Add tag for tempest plugins (https://review.openstack.org/366302)20:03
ttxmtreinish: anything to add ?20:04
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mtreinishttx: well the only open thing about those is what to do about in repo plugins20:04
* ttx refreshes his vote20:04
mtreinishby themselves the tags are pretty straightforward now20:04
ttxmtreinish: it's a similar question for horizon-plugins20:04
mtreinishbut the majority of plugins are included in project repos (it's an antipattern for tempest plugins, but expected for devstack)20:04
annegentlenice thing is the repos are named consistently20:04
* devananda lurks20:05
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johnthetubaguyso we could add that type tag into the main project repo, or is that a bit odd?20:05
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dhellmannmtreinish : are there docs explaining why it's an anti-pattern?20:05
ttxjohnthetubaguy: so far we haven't (for horizon-plugins)20:06
mtreinishdhellmann: there are (and they're linked in the tempest tag commit msg)20:06
ttxsince for the releases website we have those in separate paragraphs20:06
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dhellmannmtreinish : ah, ok, I hadn't looked at that patch since I voted20:06
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johnthetubaguyttx: ah, right.20:06
dtroyer_zzis there expected to be only one type_ tag per repo/deliverable?20:06
mtreinishjohnthetubaguy: I was thinking about adding a subtype on the tag like contains:tempest-plugin or something like that20:06
dhellmanndtroyer_zz : yes20:06
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ttxWe have majority on those two, and nobody objected during the week, so I think we can approve those now20:07
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dhellmanndtroyer_zz : although if we end up moving the values we use for rendering releases.o.o into the releases repo, we could allow multiples in governance20:07
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dtroyer_zzthat might solve a couple of things then20:08
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dhellmannyeah, types and release models change more often than anticipated20:08
* dtroyer_zz was thinking about the client-library stuff we kicked about a few weeks ago20:08
ttxand deliverables contents20:08
johnthetubaguymtreinish: seems simpler using the same tag for both though, but that makes we think about tag precedence order20:08
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ttxI propose we approve those and use them for pure plugins repo until we have a larger solution20:09
dhellmannttx: ++20:09
ttx(like for horizon-plugins)20:09
mtreinishjohnthetubaguy: it is, I was just thinking out loud20:09
johnthetubaguyttx: ++20:09
mtreinishttx: ++, that's why I proposed it that way :)20:09
ttxok, approving now20:10
ttx#topic Barcelona Design Summit cross-project workshops20:10
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dimsmtreinish : thanks, sounds good to me20:10
ttxOK, so we need to start organizing the cross-project content we'll have in Barcelona20:10
ttxIn terms of resources, we can use up to 6 time slots and up to 4 parallel rooms20:10
ttx(we can, of course, use less)20:11
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ttxGiven that Ocata is a short cycle, I'd rather focus on a few key topics (giving some of them a double-slot) rather than the usual scattergun20:11
ttxWho is interested in setting that up ?20:11
johnthetubaguyI personally find 3 parallel rooms frustrating, so maybe 4 would be pushing it20:11
johnthetubaguyI could help with that20:11
dhellmannI would offer, but I'm up for election this term.20:12
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ttxjohnthetubaguy: we can mix and match. Have a few slots with only 1 or 2 in parallel and others with 3 or 420:12
anteayadhellmann: why does that matter?20:12
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ttxdepeding on the topic20:12
anteayadhellmann: tc and non tc folk have worked on this in the past20:12
johnthetubaguyttx: good point, that works20:12
dhellmannanteaya : I thought it has been mostly tc members20:12
* dtroyer_zz raises hand again incase my disconnect didn't pass it through20:13
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annegentle2 parallel is about my limit johnthetubaguy :)20:13
anteayadhellmann: it has been, but it doesn't have to be20:13
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ttxHow would you prefer to do the topic selection ?20:13
ttxCan't remember what we used last time20:13
annegentledtroyer_zz I didn't see ya do it so might not have gotten thru20:13
anteayadhellmann: I don't see how your status would interfere with your ability to participate if that is what you want20:13
dhellmannttx: the etherpad worked well for collecting ideas20:13
ttx(but then I delegated it last time)20:13
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johnthetubaguydid we do etherpad, then narrow them down?20:13
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annegentlejohnthetubaguy yeah I think so20:13
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anteayadhellmann: I would offer to help but I won't be in barcelona20:14
johnthetubaguyyeah, the google forms we tried sucks because not all computers in the world can use a google form20:14
ttxso let's create an etherpad, set expectations that we'll likely only select a few topics20:14
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dimswas this what we used last time? https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-cross-project-sessions20:14
ttxset some deadline20:14
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ttxand start cracking ?20:14
dimsttx : i can help with this20:15
dtroyer_zzdims:  that looks familiar20:15
johnthetubaguyso the newly elected TC should probably vote on that, so is that the deadline? or do we need it before then?20:15
ttx#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ocata-cross-project-sessions20:15
ttxjohnthetubaguy: we usually don't vote. We only select a few members to run it. We could select members that are not for reelection like dhellmann suggested20:16
johnthetubaguyI didn't mean formally as such, just infromally20:16
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johnthetubaguyttx: when do you need the details uploading into the schedule?20:17
johnthetubaguytwo weeks before that seems a good deadline for suggestions20:17
* ttx adds a bit of data20:17
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ttxOK, we have the basic data in20:20
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ttxany volunteer for a -dev thread announcing the etherpad ?20:21
ttxWhat deadline should we set ?20:21
johnthetubaguyI can send a note out in the morning20:21
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johnthetubaguyif we pick a date20:21
annegentlettx so six slots, am I reading it right?20:21
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annegentlethanks johnthetubaguy I can help with the etherpad wrangling20:21
ttx#action johnthetubaguy to announce the CPW planning etherpad20:21
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dtroyer_zzOct 1-ish?  thats a few days to still get to two weeks befor for the schedule20:21
ttxannegentle: yes, see above20:21
annegentlettx got it, thanks20:22
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johnthetubaguydtroyer_zz: that sounds about right20:22
ttxdtroyer_zz: yes, something like end of week Sunday Oct 220:22
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johnthetubaguyyeah, just thinking about giving us time mon/tuesday to look through before this meeting20:23
ttxOct 1 sounds good20:23
johnthetubaguy#info oct 1 deadline for adding suggestions to https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ocata-cross-project-sessions20:23
dhellmannttx: did I correctly identify the slots that could serve as doubles?20:24
ttxdhellmann: yes20:24
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dhellmannone was obvious, the other had more of a gap20:24
ttxplease #info yourself if you volunteer to help20:24
ttx#info ttx volunteers to help20:24
dhellmannand of course we could have 2 part sessions spread over the 2 days if we want, too20:25
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ttx#info johnthetubaguy volunteered to help too20:25
annegentle#info annegentle volunteers too20:25
dtroyer_zz#info dtroyer volunteers20:25
mtreinishttx: I can help if there aren't enough people already :)20:25
ttxusually all the TC members end up participating in the vote selection anyway20:26
anteayamtreinish: info yourself20:26
dims#info dims volunteers to help20:26
ttxit's more who is availabel to take more of a lead position20:26
ttxor available20:26
mtreinishttx: ah, ok voting is enough for me then20:26
ttxOK, anything else we need to settle now ?20:26
johnthetubaguythat sounds like a good starting point to me20:26
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annegentlejohnthetubaguy ttx Oct 7th eob a good deadline then? Or did you mean Oct 2nd?20:27
ttxOct 1 is good20:27
johnthetubaguyI thought we said Oct 1st20:27
annegentleend of day I mean20:27
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annegentlethat's easier, updting etherpad20:27
ttxOne thing I would really like to see discussed is some common understanding around plugins for proprietary technologies20:27
ttxannegentle: I see it on te etherpad already20:27
ttx(although we'll probably have to prepare that one up front so that it doesn't turn into a shoutfest)20:27
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ttxOK, let's move on to next topic20:29
ttx#topic Finalizing Ocata goals20:29
*** openstack changes topic to "Finalizing Ocata goals (Meeting topic: tc)"20:29
ttxdhellmann: want to introduce this one ?20:29
ttxor should I20:29
dhellmanngiven that we're so close to the summit, and we haven't nailed down this goal definition, I have withdrawn it for now20:30
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/34906920:30
dhellmannI will propose a session for the summit, and haypo has agreed to lead it, to discuss what needs to be done and figure out what our next steps are20:31
dhellmannand then over the course of ocata we can discuss the goal definition more20:31
dhellmannwith the intent to resubmit it for pike20:31
ttxThat will come soon enough20:31
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ttxdhellmann: is there anything to do to formally close the list for Ocata ?20:32
mtreinishdhellmann: so we'll only have the one goal for ocata?20:32
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dhellmannmtreinish : unless someone else proposes another20:32
dhellmannttx: we've approved the one goal, so I think that's it20:32
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mtreinishdhellmann: I can write up one for the tempest plugin split out (like we talked about in nyc) this week20:33
dhellmannI'll propose a session to discuss that, too, in case folks have implementation questions that they would like shared20:33
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dhellmannmtreinish : we should get that on the list, but given the time frame I don't know if it's realistic to get that approved either :-/20:33
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mtreinishdhellmann: yeah, that's fine. But it'll be a starting point if nothing else20:33
ttxfeels like we could use a (small) backlog of goals20:34
dhellmannmtreinish : sure20:34
ttxsince we were a bit short this time20:34
annegentlettx that's a good idea20:34
johnthetubaguyso thinking about to the goals for pike, do we start the discussion on those at the PTG? or at this summit?20:34
dhellmannttx: we have https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ocata-tc-goals but we were missing someone to do the writing work20:34
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mtreinishjohnthetubaguy: both?20:34
dhellmannjohnthetubaguy : we need to be collecting info at the summit20:34
ttxjohnthetubaguy: start the discussion at the summit, but refine goal selection in the month(s) before PTG20:34
dhellmannright, what ttx said20:35
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johnthetubaguyright, thats what I was thinking, I am just wondering what we are doing to help make that happen, I am wondering if we have a slot to discuss that at the end of the week, probably not I guess20:35
ttxok, let's move on. Skipping next topic since flaper87 is not around and would rather be when we discuss it20:36
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dhellmannttx: are we going to hold "forum" sessions in barcelona?20:36
ttxjohnthetubaguy: I think the idea is to think about things that could make good goals, not really to discuss any particular one in detail20:36
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ttxdhellmann: not really, although some of the fishbowl sessions will look a lot like what Forum sessions will be20:36
dhellmannit might be useful to have a cross-project session to discuss them in general20:36
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annegentledhellmann I like that idea20:37
johnthetubaguydhellmann: yeah, I am thinking that, if only to get folks thinking about them20:37
ttxdepends on the topic really20:37
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dhellmannmaybe someone else could volunteer to lead that20:37
dtroyer_zzdhellmann: yes, as they are new and generated a lot of questions already20:37
* dhellmann doesn't want this to be "Doug's goals for OpenStack"20:37
johnthetubaguyI don't mind leading something along those lines20:37
ttxlet's rotate the burn20:37
dhellmannjohnthetubaguy : great, thanks20:37
ttxok, moving on20:38
ttx#topic Open discussion20:38
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)"20:38
ttxI have several things to discuss20:38
annegentledhellmann nice, yeah20:38
ttxI'll do a new version of the "principles", probably tomorrow. Hopefully it will be more consensual20:38
ttxalthough I need to check back with original drafters if they will still be comfortable co-authoring it :)20:38
ttxthe fringe of people who think we should not define principles at all will probably still be disappointed20:39
ttxAnother thread that went ballistic last week is the alignment of the future election periods w/ the cycle20:39
ttxThe language in the charter is a bit non-deterministic, mentions both "design summit" and "summit", so we need to update it (after this election round) for the PTG/summit new world order20:39
dimsy fireworks20:39
ttx3 options have been proposed: elections just before summit, elections just before summit but with PTL overlap and delayed "takeover", or elections before PTG20:39
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ttxI'd argue that there is no perfect time to run elections, we are always busy.20:40
ttxBut then the current timeframe (R-4 to R+0) arguably falls when we are the busiest20:40
ttxwell no, R-7/R-5 would actually be worse20:40
ttxWhat's your take on that ?20:40
ttx(not that we'd make a decision now, more of a temperature read on the room20:41
dtroyer_zzThere is a definite perception in parts of the community that PTLs are per-cycle already, even if that is not strictly true20:41
johnthetubaguyI am not sure there is a good time, with all the extra staggering we have coming up20:41
mtreinishttx: tbh, I'm fine keeping it relative to the summit like now, even if it's in the middle of the cycle in the post-ptg world20:41
dtroyer_zzadjusting the election to better prepare for actually making that true seems like a less-disruptive adjustment20:41
dhellmannI underestimated how many teams see their PTL as their release driver, so I think I'm OK with shifting elections to align with the PTG. When we do that, we could build in more lead time than we have now.20:41
mtreinishit just adds more buffer incase the torch is passed on20:42
dhellmannalthough I would also be ok with the proposal as it stands20:42
sdagueI think more lead time would be good just to make transitions smoother20:42
ttxPersonally I dislike the whole idea of asking the current PTl for room requirements at the Design Summit while elections are started. Makes for weird discussions20:42
johnthetubaguyyeah, more lead time would certainly help smooth the bumps20:42
dhellmannsdague : yeah, I just think 4 months is too long20:42
sdaguedhellmann: sure20:42
edleafeare there many cases of non-smooth transitions?20:42
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ttxedleafe: there were enough of them20:43
dtroyer_zzunder the old way, would 2 more weeks have been enough? 1 month?20:43
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sdaguehonestly, this could also be a time where we've grown so much diversity in projects that there is no one size fits all here20:43
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annegentlesdague that's my sense of it too20:43
dhellmannedleafe : we've had several PTLs disappear right at the end of the cycle when we needed them to coordinate release work, yes20:43
sdaguebecause the base iaas things definitely work as PTL is release driver20:43
edleafedhellmann: ttx: ok thanks20:43
sdaguebut tons of horizontal things don't even have releases per say20:43
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dhellmannsdague : I do not think this is an area where we want teams to "innovate"20:44
fungias a ptl for a project with no real ties to the cycle, it seems like we shouldn't be pinning ptls to some release cycle anyway, but while deliverables following the release cycle are a minority, projects with at least one of those deliverables are likely a majority20:44
johnthetubaguywell, in base iaas decisions are very often heavily aligned with in person meet up cycles, more than the release as such20:44
ttxI also would like to make sure we use the summit in the now-middle of the cycle to bootstrap the thinking about the next cycle, and not knowing who will drive that next cycle by then is kind of a problem20:45
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sdaguedhellmann: maybe, but it's also going to be odd to just apply spherical human rules to all projects an assume uniformity20:45
dhellmannsdague : the only reason this is even coming up as an option now is the ptg change; no one has objected to a single schedule for elections before afaik20:46
ttxThere is no urgency since we won't be able to change the charter until after this election round anyway, but if you could think about it and the various options we have, that would be great20:46
johnthetubaguyttx: I see most projects working more like a team than that, but I guess thats different in different projects20:46
anteayajohnthetubaguy: yes, different in different projects20:47
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ttxjohnthetubaguy: I still think it's easier if the person in charge of the current cycle is not necessarily the person in chargfe of the next, and you know who is in charge of the next early enough to prepare the cycle properly20:47
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fungihowever, with the described cycle "overlap" this seems better suited to delegates anyway20:48
david-lyleassuming delegates exist20:49
fungiit seems like in situations where projects realize they have a need for that, they grow delegates to take it on?20:49
johnthetubaguyttx: maybe, not sure I am totally visualising your suggestions properly yet, will apply thinking cap20:50
persiaFor this purpose, it is probably best to assume there is *someone* in charge of a release, even if that role ends up switching mid-development cycle or remains the PTL, or whatever.20:50
david-lylewhen it works, ulitimately it all cascades back to the PTL20:50
sdaguefungi: that does assume there is a bench willing to do that. And that that coordination cost doesn't outweigh the benefits of the extra hands there.20:50
annegentlemy instinct says there's less of a bench than we think --- because there are many more small projects than large20:51
dtroyer_zzI do think having a common model for the cases where the PTL delegates this stuff is the important bit.  for small enough projects it is all PTL20:51
fungiand at any point in time, there are probably two releases in progress (one in the early stages of planning, one being finalized) and so you'll have a ptl changing in the middle of one of them regardless20:51
sdagueannegentle: and in even large projects, the amount you need to put into your head to do that role effectively, means it's unlikely to end up with 2 to 3 folks being able to commit to that in overlapping windows20:52
annegentlesdague true that20:52
johnthetubaguysdague: I think that articulates my concern well20:52
annegentlesdague bigger brains20:52
sdaguethat's at least largely how things have faired in the Nova space, the PTL is the one that needs to sort all the parts and keep that straight20:52
sdaguewhich frees up other core team members to focus on landing those parts20:52
ttxsdague: I'd argue that the person in charge of the release has an easier job if they don't need to care about the next, though20:53
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ttxAnd currently they do20:53
pleia2 1/g 11420:53
sdagueas they don't also need the whole picture20:53
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sdaguettx: that assumes everything gets done in a cycle, and things are 3 or 4 cycle efforts20:53
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sdaguewhich, all the hard stuff usually is20:53
ttxI mean, *I* send those PTls emails about room requirements, I can tell you they would prefer not to have to think about it20:53
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fungiwas there more of a driver for this proposal besides the release team being concerned that there was a lack of continuity for release liaisons over the course of a release, or poor hand-off between liaisons?20:54
sdagueanyway, just thinking aloud here to make sure all the info is on the table if a decision does get made20:54
ttxfungi: which proposal are you talking about ?20:54
ttxWe have words in the charter that won't mean anything post-Barcelona, so we need to decide what to do :)20:55
fungiwell, the change in ptl election scheduling/efficacy and release stewards proposals tend to dovetail into each other, so both i guess20:55
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ttxthe release stewards stuff was just a way to make the "let's keep them scheduled against SUmmit" option easier20:56
fungirelease steward delegation seems like at least a partial answer to retaining the current election schedule20:56
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ttxensure a bit of extra continuity20:56
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fungirecognizing that there's probably no perfect time in the schedule for ptl changing of the guard anyway20:56
ttxbut you get the same with waiting 3 months to take over as sdague suggested20:56
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