Tuesday, 2016-09-20

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hongbin#startmeeting zun03:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Sep 20 03:00:05 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is hongbin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.03:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.03:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zun)"03:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'zun'03:00
hongbin#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun#Agenda_for_2016-09-20_0300_UTC Today's agenda03:00
hongbin#topic Roll Call03:00
*** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: zun)"03:00
shubhamsShubham Kumar Sharma03:00
Vivek_JainVivek Jain03:00
yuanyingOtsuka, Motohiro03:01
hongbinThanks for joining hte meeting Namrata shubhams eliqiao Wenzhi mkrai kevinz adisky yanyanhu Vivek_Jain yuanying03:01
hongbin#topic Announcements03:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: zun)"03:01
hongbinI have no announcement03:01
hongbinanyone else has?03:01
hongbin#topic Review Action Items03:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Review Action Items (Meeting topic: zun)"03:02
hongbin#topic Nova integration (Namrata)03:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Nova integration (Namrata) (Meeting topic: zun)"03:02
hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/nova-integration The BP03:02
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/354553/ The proposed spec03:02
hongbinNamrata: ^^03:02
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Namratawas reading the comments about the fate of nova docker03:03
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Namratanot sure what should i do next03:03
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hongbinNamrata: maybe give the team a summary of the status03:03
hongbinand brief what comments you got from the reviewers03:04
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Namratai havent read the comments yest03:05
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Namratacan we discuss this in open meeting03:05
hongbinthen, talk this topic03:06
hongbinnext one03:06
hongbin#topic Support interactive mode03:06
*** openstack changes topic to "Support interactive mode (Meeting topic: zun)"03:06
hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/support-interactive-mode03:06
hongbinthe proposal is about whether to support interactive mode for container03:06
hongbinfor example, in docker, users can enter a container with : docker run -it ubuntu /bin/bash03:07
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hongbini am thinking whether it makes sense for zun03:07
hongbinto support the same03:07
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yanyanhuhongbin, one question is how it is done for container created in remote host?03:08
hongbinyanyanhu: sudipta asked the same question at the last meeting03:08
hongbinyanyanhu: i don't know how right now, this needs investigation03:08
yanyanhuI see03:08
hongbini know swarm / k8s did it03:08
hongbinjust need to investigate how these COE did it03:09
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yanyanhuso the problem become what kind of interface this interaction is done through03:09
hongbini see03:10
hongbinok, this bp needs a volunteer to investigate03:10
hongbinlet me know if anyone interest to take the bp03:10
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adiskyi will investigate03:11
hongbinadisky: thx03:11
hongbin#action adisky investigate how to support interactive mode to enter container03:11
hongbinadisky: thanks for your volunteer03:11
hongbinok, next one03:12
hongbin#topic Container image store03:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Container image store (Meeting topic: zun)"03:12
hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/glance-integration03:12
hongbin#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-container-image03:12
hongbinmkrai: flwang ^^03:12
mkraiI and shubhams did discussion last week03:12
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mkraiAnd we feel option 3 is best solution for it that is supporting both glance, docker hub and registry03:13
mkraiAs glare and glance both doesn't fit in our requirements03:13
hongbinmkrai: maybe a brief recap of what is option 3?03:13
mkraiAdditionally we feel that we can have a new resource in Zun that is repo which can be used to manage resources03:13
mkraiYes sure hongbin03:14
flwangyep, what's the option 3?03:14
shubhamsOption#3 is to use glance03:14
mkraiOption #3 explains that we support all 3 possible options to store images that is glance, docker hub and docker registry03:14
mkraiAnd repo will be selected based on namespaces03:15
flwangshubhams: mkrai: seems what you're talking are different03:15
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shubhamsflwang : no no , I was talking the same but didnt write my second statement as mkrai finished it :)03:16
shubhamsBasically in last meeting we discussed that we should have repositories for different use cases03:17
flwangfor docker hub and docker registry, seems clear and straightforward03:17
flwangcould you pls explain the glance part?03:17
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mkraiflwang, We haven't looked on how we gonna support layering in glance03:17
hongbinthe layering can be a future work (i think)03:18
mkraiBut yes for first use case that is just storage of image, we do it same way as nova-docker does03:18
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mkraiThat is storing tar file of images03:18
flwangdoes that mean we don't need any change of glance?03:19
mkraiWhat I feel is that it depends on operator and their use case03:19
flwangbecause seems like it's just a normal simple glance user case03:19
mkraiIf they need layering they should go for later two options03:20
mkraiYes flwang03:20
mkraiDo you feel is it feasible to support such features in glance?03:20
flwangmkrai: it's very hard to do in glance, because it's like implement a git/version control system in glance03:20
flwangyou know what i mean03:21
mkraiGlance is just for managing VM images so they will not support features like layering03:21
mkraiYes flwang that's what I am saying03:21
flwangmkrai: you got it :)03:21
mkraiAnd glare aims to do it but nothing has been done yet03:21
mkraiSo of course we can support glare when it has the support03:22
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adiskyagreed with you mkrai03:22
flwangIIUC, even glare supports the layering, it does still need to work with glance to provide the whole image serivce flow03:22
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mkraiGlare don't have the layering support yet03:23
mkraiGlare also aims to support multiple backend like docker hub and registry03:23
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hongbini think we need to get the tar file working first, don't think we need to worry the layering for now03:25
mkraiYes hongbin I totally agree03:25
mkraiThat I and shubhams will do it this week03:25
mkraiDo a PoC to check tar support in glance for container images03:26
hongbinmkrai: i think the key we discussed at the previous meeting is how to support both glance and docker hub at the same time03:26
mkraiNamespaces, isn't it?03:26
hongbinmkrai: ok03:26
mkraiNamespace is a prefix to the images like glance/busybox03:26
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mkraihongbin, Also what do you feel about new repo resource?03:27
hongbinmkrai: i think both sudipta and yanyanhu challenged this approach03:27
mkraiI see03:27
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mkraisudipto, Hi03:28
sudiptomkrai, hello, extremely sorry for being late.03:28
mkraiWe are discussing about the namespaces feature with container image03:28
mkraiDo you have any concern on it?03:28
mkraiyanyanhu, ^^03:28
yanyanhuhi, mkrai, for new repo resources?03:29
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mkraiNo yanyanhu03:30
mkraii think both sudipta and yanyanhu challenged the approach of namespaces03:30
mkraiNamespace is a prefix to the images like glance/busybox03:30
yanyanhuah, I recalled.03:30
mkraiWill be needed to support both glance and docker hub at the same time03:31
yanyanhuI thought we should try different repos with sequence03:31
yanyanhue.g. glance first, than docker hub, etc.03:31
mkraiyanyanhu, I feel user should have power to pick any repo03:31
yanyanhuyes, mkrai, agree with this03:32
mkraiAlso your implementation will incur extra time03:32
shubhamsyanyanhu : I agree with you but what about giving this  choice to admin like : I want to pull from docker hub or I want to pull from glance or local repo03:32
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mkraiLook into glance, then look into docker hub etc03:32
yanyanhuso should not be completely automatic choosing03:32
mkraishubhams, +103:32
yanyanhuif user provides namespace, we should follow it03:32
yanyanhumakes sense to me03:33
hongbinflwang: you get the idea of namespace?03:33
sudiptoIt all depends on what we eventually want to achieve too. Do we want to support an orchestration engine based out of docker (let's say something like k8s or swarm) - and we eventually want to use their templates. In such cases you would have to change it to work with zun. That's all was my concern.03:33
yanyanhubut we should not enforce user to provide namespace prefix, right?03:33
shubhamsyanyanhu : so you want to say that : if user has not asked an imnage  for any specific repo then zun be able to judge and fetch it (based on our priorities/order) ?03:34
yanyanhuyes, shubhams03:34
yanyanhupriorities can be configured in zun.conf maybe03:34
sudiptowell i think them middle ground could be - you ask the user to explicitly specify it - if they want a specific repo - else it can go to the default repo order and pick up stuff.03:34
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sudiptoif i as a user specify glance/busy-box - it picks it up explicitly from glance.03:35
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yanyanhusudipto, exactly03:35
sudiptoHowever if i just say busy-box - and zun.conf has docker hub as the default registry - it goes and picks it up from docker hub.03:35
mkraiI think everyone has same opinion03:36
yanyanhusudipto, yes, that priorities/order should be configurable03:36
hongbinok, sounds good to me03:36
sudiptoyanyanhu, agreed.03:36
shubhamssudipto: yanyanhu : I agree with your point03:36
mkraiCool :)03:37
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hongbinany other comment ?03:37
shubhamsNow the question is : what we want to implement first : the scenario where user gives repo name explicitly or the one where zun decides about from where to pick the image from03:37
eliqiaopick the repo user specified first then use default.03:38
sudiptoeliqiao, +103:38
eliqiaomaybe configured on zun.conf.03:38
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hongbin#agree support multiple repo with namespaces, make default repo configurable03:39
mkraiI guess let's support glance first, then docker hub with namespaces support03:39
yanyanhuagree with mkrai since that means we start from the simplest one03:39
sudiptoJust to also let you know - right now docker hub itself does not support a universal image format. So for example - if i specify something like busy-box/ppc64le - it will go and map it to the ppc64le namespace on docker hub - otherwise get a x86 based image.03:40
yanyanhunamespaces is meaningful only after multiple image backends are supported03:40
sudiptoso there's already some bit of namespacing in docker hub - with respect to CPU arch.03:40
shubhamssuipto : good to know about that03:40
sudiptoBut I think, we can take care of that under the hood. as in if the user requests a glance image from a compute node based on CPU arch X - we only go and fetch that image.03:41
sudiptowhich applies to arch X.03:41
sudiptoinstead of asking the user to specify something ugly like glance/busy-box/ppc64le or glance/busy-box/arm03:41
sudiptodo you guys agree?03:42
hongbinyes, could be done later03:42
sudiptosame goes for the normal case too - if the user specifies busy-box (and it expects zun to take care of everything) - then we should be able to determine the arch of the compute node and request the image as per from docker hub03:43
mkraiYeah that makes sense sudipto03:43
hongbinok, let's advance topic now03:43
sudiptoI am just looking at a few value adds we can give on top of the docker-registry...anyway yes - it would be an implementation detail we can sort out later.03:43
hongbinthere is one more topic to discuss03:44
hongbin#topic Container network03:44
*** openstack changes topic to "Container network (Meeting topic: zun)"03:44
hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/neutron-integration The BP03:44
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/365754/ The proposed spec03:44
hongbindoes anyone has a chance to look at the spec?03:44
hongbinor maybe i can summary it here03:45
mkraiI had a look03:45
hongbinthe proposal is about to introduce another concept called "sandbox"03:45
eliqiaoso sandbox is just a logic name?03:45
hongbina sandbox is actually a docker container03:45
hongbinthe zun container will sort of run inside a sandbox03:46
hongbinso there are two containers03:46
hongbina sandbox container and a zun container03:46
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hongbinthe zun container is requested by end-user to create03:47
mkraiIs it zun container inside sandbox container?03:47
hongbinmkrai: yes and no03:47
hongbinthe zun container will join the Linux namespaces of the sandbox container03:47
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hongbinin particular, using these options on docker run03:48
hongbin``--net=container:<sandbox>``, ``--ipc=container:<sandbox>``03:48
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hongbin``--pid=container:<sandbox>`` and/or ``--volumes-from=<sandbox>``03:48
eliqiaowhat about the performance?03:48
hongbineliqiao: let me explain the performance a little03:48
hongbinsince i am going to propose to use nova to provision sandbox, the performance is the nova03:49
hongbinso, sandbox is provisioned by nova03:49
hongbinzun container is provisioned by zun03:49
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hongbinthe point is to reuse nova to do whatever nova provided (neutron ports, scheduling, etc.)03:50
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mkraiAnd that can be reused by Nova's sandbox?03:51
hongbinsandbox is like a vm, it has networking, volumes, resource constraints, etc.03:51
hongbinmkrai: i guess yes03:51
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eliqiaohongbin: I get03:51
eliqiaobut kinds of waste for create an sandbox03:52
mkraihongbin, I think this will have resource overhead of having 2x containers03:52
sudiptoI do feel that the sandbox is the step in the right direction because that's how most of the container orchestration engines too are working.03:52
WenzhiI think this approach is reasonable, just like 'join' network mode in docker, and we can avoid copy networking code from Nova03:52
eliqiaoso they are only sharing one port?03:52
hongbineliqiao: yes, the ports are shared03:52
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hongbindefnitlely, i agree there is performance overhead03:53
mkraiThis sandbox container will not be public03:53
eliqiaowhat's the sandbox looks like, what's image it using?03:53
hongbinmkrai: no, it is internal03:53
hongbineliqiao: like a 'pause' image used by k8s03:54
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hongbineliqiao: an empty docker image that is keep running03:54
hongbineliqiao: and doesn't do anything real03:54
mkraihongbin, I like the idea but we have to write a driver for Zun to create this containers?03:54
eliqiaoget, thx.03:54
eliqiaomkrai: Nova will creat that, hongbin?03:55
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hongbinmkrai: yes, the sandbox needs to be implemented in zun by a driver03:55
hongbineliqiao: yes, nova is responsible to create the sandbox03:55
mkraiWill nova-integration bp help there?03:55
hongbinhowever, the nova-integation bp is about using nova api to manage container03:56
hongbinmy proposal is about using nova api to mange sandboxes03:56
hongbinwhich is two independent ideas03:57
mkraiYeah we can revisit the nova-integration bp keeoing this use case in mind03:57
hongbinany other comment ?03:58
mkraiI will provide my comments on spec03:58
hongbinmkrai: thx03:58
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hongbin#topic Open Discussion03:59
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: zun)"03:59
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hongbinlast meeting comment ?03:59
hongbinlast minutes03:59
mkraiTime is up :)03:59
hongbinall, thanks for joining the meeting03:59
adiskyi want to discuss about cinder integration in next meeting03:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"03:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue Sep 20 03:59:48 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)03:59
sudiptoThank you, and sorry about being late.03:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-09-20-03.00.html03:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-09-20-03.00.txt03:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-09-20-03.00.log.html03:59
hongbinadisky: sure03:59
hongbinsudipto: np at all04:00
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yamamot__#startmeeting networking_midonet07:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Sep 20 07:01:30 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is yamamot__. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.07:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.07:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)"07:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'networking_midonet'07:01
yamamot__#topic Agenda07:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)"07:01
yamamot__#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NetworkingMidoNet07:02
yamamot__#topic Announcements07:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)"07:02
yamamot__no announcements from me07:02
yamamot__#topic Bugs07:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)"07:02
yamamot__no critical bugs i'm aware of07:02
yamamot__although i haven't checked the status this week yet07:02
yamamot__i'll continue the bug deputy role as usual07:03
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yamamot__#topic Open Discussion07:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking_midonet)"07:03
yamamot__#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/370585/07:04
yamamot__i'm going to make ml2 the primary dev target.07:04
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yamamot__if anyone has concerns, please raise it, either online or offline.07:05
* yamamot__ waiting for a few mins before closing the meeting07:05
amotokione person meeting ?07:05
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yamamot__amotoki: exactly :-)07:05
yamamot__but now two :-)07:06
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liuyulongI have a patch may have side effects to midonet, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/372298/07:11
liuyulongIf you midonet guys have time, please take a look, thank you very much.07:11
yamamot__liuyulong: thank you.  i'll take a look.07:11
yamamot__#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/372298/07:11
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amotokiAlthough the master branch has been open for Ocata, we are still careful on refactoring patches07:13
amotokibecause it makes backport to newton difficult.07:13
amotokibut i think yamamot__ can validate the change :)07:14
liuyulongamotoki, yep, thank you. : )07:14
yamamot__amotoki: i don't think he's asking to merge it immediately. :-)  and anyway it has armax's -207:14
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yamamot__let me skip the next meeting (Dec 4) as i have some conflicting schedule07:16
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* yamamot__ waiting for another few mins before closing meeting. ie. having coffee07:17
liuyulongyamamot__, you are YAMAMOTO Takashi? right? I think I've already added you as a reviewer to that patch. : )07:18
yamamot__liuyulong: yes i am07:18
yamamot__i think i missed gerrit notification mail for that though. :-)07:19
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yamamot__#info next meeting (Dec 4) will be cancelled07:21
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yamamot__ok, i think we've done07:24
yamamot__thank you for attending07:24
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"07:24
openstackMeeting ended Tue Sep 20 07:24:40 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)07:24
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-09-20-07.01.html07:24
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-09-20-07.01.txt07:24
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_midonet/2016/networking_midonet.2016-09-20-07.01.log.html07:24
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liuyulongthank you, bye07:25
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eranrom#startmeeting storlets08:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Sep 20 08:00:06 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is eranrom. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.08:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.08:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storlets)"08:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'storlets'08:00
eranromLets start! Agenda is here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Storlets08:00
eranromdo you want to add anything?08:00
takashiI'll talk little about python package in 2nd topic08:01
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kota_looks good to me on the agenda08:01
takashibut no big change is needed08:02
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kota_i thought to add my multiinput thing but it exists in :D08:02
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eranromtakashi: So I take it there are no python updates other then package - right?08:03
kota_eranrom: and i think, i and takashi should be today's meeting quickly beause, a big typhoon is comming to Japan08:03
takashikota_: yes :-(08:03
eranromwow. sure. do you want to cancel?08:03
kota_eranrom: so we should be back home as soon as possible08:03
takashieranrom: you mean, python storlet, right?08:03
kota_eranrom: no worries, we can do maybe ,that comes to early moning tmorrow08:04
eranrombut seems we best end now.08:04
takashinp for me. I was thinking to go back home after this meeting. :-)08:04
kota_takashi: me too!08:04
takashiit is not hard wearther now08:05
eranromalright so lets be quick.08:05
takashigo back to python storlet thing08:05
eranrom#topic Big tent work08:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Big tent work (Meeting topic: storlets)"08:05
eranromtakashi: its all yours08:05
takashijust a little about python storlet. I still need to work about docs, but still need to take some time for that08:05
takashiand about big tent08:06
takashiI submitted the patch for python packaging, patch 37033208:06
takashiIn this patch, we can install all things, including java codes and c codes using simply calling python setup.py08:06
takashisorry, this one https://review.openstack.org/#/c/370332/08:07
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takashiI'm still trying to find what is the best practice to do so, but I hope I don't need so big change from current one08:07
eranromok, Is it switll WIP?08:07
takashieranrom: At least I need to fix ansible script, based on the change08:08
eranromtakashi: ok gotcha. So I will start looking08:08
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takashieranrom: At first, I'd like to ask some feadback about new directory structure.08:09
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eranromok. The current structure can sure use some refactoring...08:09
eranrom#action eranrom to first look at the dir structure08:10
takashiCurrently I'm checking if it is really good idea to merge java codes installation totally to setup.py08:10
takashiAs far as I check monasca, which also has python codes and java codes, they have independent maven setting only for install java codes08:11
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takashibut about directory structure I basically follow some existing projects which have java/c codes08:12
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eranromtakashi: ok. Do you think that we will need to switch from ant to maven? (not now)08:13
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takashieranrom: I don't know so much about maven, but it makes sense to me at some points. Maven seems to be used generally08:14
takashibut currently ant is enough for us08:14
eranromtakashi: ok.08:14
eranromtakashi: anything else on the topic?08:14
takashieranrom: nothing from my side08:15
eranromok. Lets defer the discussion on big tent and switch to long lasting patches.08:15
eranrom#topic Long existing patches08:16
*** openstack changes topic to "Long existing patches (Meeting topic: storlets)"08:16
eranromkota_: all yours08:16
kota_the first thing multiinput08:16
kota_this morning, I was working on rebasing/addressing for takashi's comment08:17
kota_the rebasing succeeded, the patch got +1 from jenkins at the gerrit08:17
kota_in the perspective for takash's comment, I think only one thing is remaining to discuss08:18
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kota_what I didn't get yet08:18
kota_takashi: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/347258/23/Engine/swift/storlet_gateway/gateways/docker/runtime.py@582 this one.08:18
takashikota_: ok08:18
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takashikota_: When I checked the code, I noticed you don't pass metadata of extra sources from gateway to sdaemon08:20
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kota_from extra resourcces?08:21
takashikota_: Currently metadata of input object is included in the metadata of the read fd of input object08:21
kota_and you mean user metadata of extra objects08:22
takashikota_: right08:22
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kota_takashi: good point. maybe just my lazy implementation08:23
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takashikota_: IMO we need to refactor DockerRequest somehow to manage multiple input08:23
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takashikota_: so I currently just make sure it is intended or not08:23
takashijust want to make sure08:24
kota_takashi: exactly it might be useful to include user meta, just it was unecessary for my use case.08:24
eranromdo you want to have it as a follow on or not (I am good with both)08:25
kota_either is fine to me, to do in the patch or later though. if we try to address right now, I need to update some functional tests to assert it08:25
takashikota_: I'm also good with both08:26
eranromkota_: takashi: What do you say about:08:26
eranrom1. land it now (unless there are other issues)08:26
eranrom2. have a doc update patch that specifies user metadata of extra resources is not available08:26
eranrom3. follow on patch that adds yuser metadata to code and doc08:27
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takashieranrom: maybe we do not have paticular order about 2 and 308:28
eranromtakashi: ok with me08:28
eranromIts just that I would like the doc updated sooner then later...08:28
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eranrombut its not a big deal anyway.08:29
eranromAlso, I can help with the doc.08:29
kota_yey, that definately helps me :)08:30
eranromkota_: with pleasure08:30
eranromanything else on this topic?08:31
takashiabout multi input?08:31
* kota_ is thinking we can move to the next08:32
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kota_ok, on the next thing for long exiting patches08:34
eranromImprove file_manager: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/349834/08:35
eranromtakashi: you still here?08:35
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kota_but nothing progress, I need more time for rebasing and consideration with current master.08:35
takashilast week I rebased the patch to validate file_manager option, to prevent unsafe status at least08:35
kota_maybe, I can take a time to work on that after Newton Swift released08:36
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eranromkota_: Just curious, when is the release planned for?08:37
kota_eranrom: notmyname is planning around this week (he said in the swift meeting)08:37
eranromkota_: ok, thanks08:38
takashiAs far as I know about other projects, Oct 5 seems to be a deadline08:38
kota_in the last meeting08:38
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takashiIt seems that Oct 6 is Newton release data08:39
kota_looking at SwiftPriority reviews https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Swift/PriorityReviews, it's close to cut a release (almost priority patches have been landed)08:39
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eranromok thanks. Takashi, would the python packaging work cause a painful merge to the file manager stuff?08:40
takashieranrom: I tested some rebasing this week, and I already confirmed the way to rebase my package patch08:40
takashieranrom: so I don't think so08:40
eranromtakashi: ok, greate!08:41
eranromSo anything else on this?08:41
takashieranrom: just a thing. I saw you had some discussion about design summit slot in dev ml.08:41
takashisorry not on this. should be talked in open discussion08:42
eranromtakashi: yes. I think that the 'math' is not done yet, and Thierry is still gathering information.08:42
takashieranrom: ok08:42
kota_eranrom: nice08:43
eranromIf I do not hear from him, I will ask later this week.08:44
ttxeranrom: so far we have more requests than we have available free slots08:44
ttxSo I don't think you would end up with more than one08:44
ttxbut then you can use it as a gathering point and then meet up in the hallway somewhere :)08:44
eranromttx: I was afraid this is the situation. Thanks anyway.08:44
ttxI expect teams to liberate some slots later this week though08:44
ttxI'll keep you posted anyway08:45
eranromsure, I think that fb is what we are really after. We are a small team and will find a space to do the workings.08:45
eranromttx: Thanks very much!08:45
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ttxso far nobody released a fishbowl08:45
ttxthose are precious :)08:45
eranromttx: I see. ok08:45
ttxWill try to give it to you if I get one08:46
eranromttx: Thanks!08:46
eranromok, so lets move on.08:46
eranrom#topic open discussion08:46
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: storlets)"08:46
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eranromFrom my side, would be happy if someone looked at the recent storlet acl patch08:47
takashieranrom: will have a look. I saw you updated your bp08:47
eranromtakashi: Thanks. I wanted to have it in two patches, but ended up with one as I have changed course during the implementation.08:48
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eranromAnyway the spec reflects the implementation08:48
takashieranrom: I see08:48
eranromAnything else?08:49
takashinothing from my side08:49
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eranromTake care with the typhoon. How many time a year do you get one?08:50
kota_nothing else for me.08:51
kota_aproxymately 2-3 hit Japan for a year, this year is more than usual :/08:51
eranromI see.08:52
takashiwe already have 5 for this year...08:52
eranromSo do take care.08:52
takashieranrom: thanks!08:52
eranromThank you very much for joining!08:52
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takashithank you.08:52
eranromEnding a few minutes earlier :-)08:53
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"08:53
openstackMeeting ended Tue Sep 20 08:53:11 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)08:53
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2016/storlets.2016-09-20-08.00.html08:53
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2016/storlets.2016-09-20-08.00.txt08:53
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2016/storlets.2016-09-20-08.00.log.html08:53
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yuval#startmeeting karbor09:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Sep 20 09:00:16 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is yuval. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.09:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.09:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: karbor)"09:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'karbor'09:00
yuvalHello everybody, welcome to Karbor weekly meeting09:00
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yuvalanyone here for the karbor meeting?09:01
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"09:04
openstackMeeting ended Tue Sep 20 09:04:45 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)09:04
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openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-09-20-09.00.html09:04
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-09-20-09.00.txt09:04
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-09-20-09.00.log.html09:04
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yanyanhu#startmeeting senlin13:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Sep 20 13:01:06 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is yanyanhu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.13:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.13:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'senlin'13:01
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guoshanhi, all13:02
yanyanhuQiming will come soon13:02
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yanyanhuso lets go through the newton work item list first13:03
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yanyanhuthis one13:04
yanyanhuPerformance test13:04
yanyanhuno progress in last week I think13:04
yanyanhu#topic newton workitem13:04
*** openstack changes topic to "newton workitem (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:04
yanyanhuabout more senlin support in rally side, didn't get time to work on it recently13:05
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yanyanhuworking on message type of receiver support in last two weeks13:05
yanyanhuwill resume the performance test work after this job is done13:05
yanyanhuHealth Management13:06
yanyanhuI think Qiming has something to update. Lets skip this and wait him come back to update13:06
yanyanhuDocument, no progress I guess13:07
yanyanhucontainer profile13:07
yanyanhuhaiwei is not here I think?13:07
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yanyanhulooks so. lets move on13:07
yanyanhuZaqar message type of receiver13:08
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yanyanhuI'm now working on it. The receiver creating part has been done, including queue/subscription creating, trust building between enduer and zaqar trustee user13:08
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yanyanhuand also api and rpc interface13:09
yanyanhunow working on message notification handling13:09
elynnzaqar trustee user is a configuration option in senlin.conf?13:10
yanyanhuhi, Qiming13:10
yanyanhuelynn, yes13:10
yanyanhuit is configurable13:10
yanyanhusince operator can define the trustee user in zaqar side as well13:10
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Qimingit is a configuration option stolen from oslo_config I think13:10
yanyanhualthough the default trustee user will be 'zaqar'13:10
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yanyanhuQiming, yes13:11
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yanyanhuwill well document this part to make it clear for user/operator13:11
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QimingI'd suggest we don't add this kind of config options only to be deprecated/invalidated some day13:11
yanyanhuQiming, yes13:11
yanyanhuthat also depends on how zaqar support it13:12
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yanyanhuso will keep looking at it and talking with zaqar team to ensure our usage is correct13:12
Qimingsounds something negotiable13:13
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yanyanhuit now works as expected13:14
yanyanhuhttps://review.openstack.org/373004 after applying this patch which is in progress13:14
yanyanhuafter creating a message type of receiver, user can trigger different actions on specific cluster by posting message to the message queue13:15
yanyanhuthe queue can be reused multiple times13:16
yanyanhuutil receiver is deleted13:16
Qimingneed a tutorial doc on this, so that users know how to use it13:16
yanyanhuQiming, absolutely13:16
yanyanhuthat is necessary13:16
yanyanhuwill work on it after basic support is done13:16
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Qimingcool, thx13:17
yanyanhumy pleasure13:17
yanyanhuso this is about the progress of message receiver13:17
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yanyanhui, hQiming, we just skipped the HA topic, could you plz give the update on it. thanks13:18
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Qimingyep, there is a patch which need some eyes13:18
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Qimingthe only problem we found so far is about the context used when calling cluster_check13:19
Qimingthe health manager will invoke cluster_check periodically using an admin context13:19
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Qimingan admin context is special, in that it has no meaningful fields except for the is_admin set to True13:20
yanyanhuQiming, yes13:20
Qimingsuch a context will be referenced later in the action, and the action wants to record the requesting user/project13:20
Qimingwhich, in this case, are both None13:20
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Qimingan action having user/project set to None cannot be deserialized later because we strictly require all actions objects have user/project associated with it13:21
yanyanhuI see13:21
Qimingxuefeng has helped proposed a fix to this. pls help review13:22
yanyanhumaybe we should invoke cluster_check using senlin service context?13:22
yanyanhuQiming, will check it13:22
Qimingservice context has a different user/project13:22
Qimingit makes sense also13:22
yanyanhufrom the cluster owner13:22
yanyanhuwill think about it13:22
Qiminga service context is more appropriate imo13:22
Qimingmore accurate13:23
yanyanhuyes, since this action is actually done by senlin13:23
QimingI've added something to the agenda today13:24
Qimingone thing is about desired capacity13:24
yanyanhuok, I noticed some recent changes are about it13:24
QimingI'm still dealing with the last relevant action (CLUSTER_DEL_NODES)13:24
Qiminghopefully can get it done early tomorrow13:25
Qimingthe idea is to encourage such a usage scenario13:25
Qiminga user observes the current/actual capacity when examining a cluster13:25
Qimingthe desired capacity means nothing, it is just an indicator of an ideal case13:26
yanyanhuso the current logic is all desired_capacity recalculation will be done based on 'real' size of cluster when adding/deleting node to/from cluster13:26
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Qimingwhich cannot be satisfied most of the time in a dynamic environment I'm afraid13:26
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Qimingat the end of the day, users have to face the truth13:27
Qimingthey need to know the actual/current capacity and make decisions about their next steps13:27
yanyanhuQiming, it makes sense when the real size of cluster is different from desired_capacity13:27
Qimingactually, that is the logic behind our auto-scaling scenario13:27
ruijieWill senlin provide a cron or something to do health check automaticly?13:28
Qimingthe metrics collected then used to trigger an auto-scaling operation are based on the actual nodes a cluster has13:28
Qimingthat implies the triggering was a decision based on real capacity, not the desired capacity13:28
QimingI'm trying to make things consistent across all actions related to cluster size changes13:29
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yanyanhuQiming, I think it's reasonable for node creating/deleting scenarios13:29
yanyanhubut for cluster scaling/resizing scenarios, I'm not sure13:29
Qimingwhenever an action is gonna change a cluster's size, it means the users are changing their new expectation, i.e. the new desired_capacity13:30
Qimingeven after those operations are performed, you will still face two numbers: actual and desired13:30
yanyanhuespecially if we want to differentiate 'scaling' and 'recovering'13:30
yanyanhuQiming, yes13:30
Qimingokay, I was talking about manual operations, without taking health policy into the picture13:31
ruijieMy bad:)13:31
Qimingwhen health policy is attached, users will get more automation in keeping the actual number of nodes close to the desired number13:32
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Qimingthere are some tricky cases to handle13:32
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yanyanhuConsider this case: a cluster desired_capacity is 5, its real size is 4, so it is not totally health now(maybe in warning status)13:32
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Qimingcurrently, the recover operation is not trying to create or delete nodes so that the cluster size matches that of the desired capacity13:32
Qimingyes, yanyan, that is a WARNING state13:33
yanyanhuthen user perform a cluster_scale_out operation(or node_add operation). If the desired_capacity is recalculated with real size, it will still be 5.13:33
yanyanhuand a new node will be created/added13:33
Qimingas we gain more experiences on health policy usage, we can add options to the policy, teach it to do some automatic 'convergence' thing13:33
yanyanhuthen the cluster will switch to health status(active, e.g.)13:33
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Qimingyes, in that case, the cluster is healthy13:34
Qimingusers new expectation is 5 nodes13:34
Qimingand he has got 513:34
yanyanhuQiming, exactly, what I want to say is, if the desired_capacity is done using real size, cluster scaling could become kind of recovering operation13:34
yanyanhuand will change the cluster's health status13:34
Qimingthat is an implication, very subtle one13:34
QimingI was even thinking of a cluster_resize operation with no argument13:35
yanyanhuso I think we may need to decide whether this kind of status switch is as expected13:35
elynnyanyanhu: actually I think user is expecting 6 if he do cluster_scale_out...13:35
Qimingthat operation will virtually reset the cluster's status, delete all non-active nodes and re-evaluate the cluster's status13:35
yanyanhuelynn, yes, that is something could confuse user13:35
yanyanhuwe may need to state it clearly13:36
elynnsince desired_capacity is what he desired before and now he want to scale out...13:36
Qimingif we are chasing the desired capacity, we will never end the loop13:36
Qimingdesired is always a 'dream'13:36
Qimingso to make that clear13:36
yanyanhuQiming, yes, if the new desired_capacity become 6. the cluster real size will be added to e.g. 5. and cluster will remain on warnning13:36
QimingI'm proposing add a 'current_capacity' property to the cluster, automatically calculated at client side or before returning to client13:37
yanyanhubut maybe this is what user want :)13:37
ruijieMy be desired_capacity is 6, and real size is 5? And then use health policy to keep the cluster healthy13:37
Qimingexactly, you will never get your cluster status fixed13:37
yanyanhuso I mean cluster status will only be shifted when user perform recovering operation13:37
yanyanhusince it is health status related operation13:38
elynnso when user scale_out, cluster should do: 1. check cluster size 2. create nodes to desired_capacity now, which is 5 3. add new nodes to 613:38
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Qimingelynn, step 2 could faile, step 3 could fail13:38
yanyanhuelynn, yes, that is kind of implicit self recovering13:38
yanyanhuthat is possible13:38
Qimingthe only reliable status you can get is by automatically invoke the eval_status method after those operations13:39
yanyanhuso maybe we only change the cluster's health status when user explicitly perform recovering operation?13:39
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yanyanhuQiming, yes13:39
elynnIf it failed, just show warning and change desired_capacity to 6.13:39
Qimingusers will always know the 'desired' status, as he/she expressed previously, and the 'current' status, which is always a fact13:39
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yanyanhueval_status is for that purpose13:39
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Qimingelynn, if there is no health policy, how would you make the cluster healthy?13:40
yanyanhuso my thought is we keep cluster health status unchanged after cluster scaling/resizing/node_adding/deleting13:41
Qimingeach time you want to add new nodes, you are pushing the desired capacity higher13:41
yanyanhuQiming, yes. maybe manually perform cluster_recover?13:41
Qimingcluster_recover is not that reliable13:41
elynncould we provide an operation like cluster_heal?13:41
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elynnmanual perform by users?13:42
Qimingand it is too complex to get it done right13:42
Qimingcluster_recover + cluster_heal ?13:42
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elynnhmm... yes, that will become more complex...13:43
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Qimingit is too complicated, maybe I haven't thought it through, but I did spent a lot time on balancing this13:43
elynnlet's forget about cluster_heal, just cluster_recover.13:44
QimingI was even creating a table on this ...13:44
Qimingany url to paste a pic?13:44
yanyanhuunderstand your intention. just if cluster scaling doesnt change cluster desired_capacity, that is confused imho13:44
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Qimingcluster scaling does change cluster's desired_capacity13:45
Qimingsay if you have a cluster: desired=5, current=413:45
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Qimingand you do scale-out by 213:45
yanyanhubut if I scale out by 1, new desired will still be 5?13:46
Qimingthe current explanation of that request is: users know there are 4 nodes in the cluster, he/she wants to add 213:46
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elynnthen I get d=7, c=713:46
Qimingso the desired_capacity is changed to 613:46
Qimingand we create 2 nodes as user requested13:46
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yanyanhuif the desired is calculated with real size. then this scaling will actually become "recover"13:46
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Qimingit is not recover13:47
Qimingplease read the recover logic13:47
yanyanhuI mean for scale out 1 case13:47
Qimingit heals those nodes that are created13:47
yanyanhuQiming, ah, yes, sorry I used wrong item13:47
Qimingit doesn't create new nodes13:47
yanyanhumaybe cluster heal as ethan mentioned13:48
Qiminggive me a url to paste pic pls13:48
yanyanhuwhich will try to converge the cluster real size to desired one13:48
elynnwhy cluster recover can't create nodes?13:48
Qimingit is a limitation13:48
yanyanhuelynn, currently, recover means recover a failed node13:48
Qimingwe can improve it do do that13:48
yanyanhuthrough recreating, rebuilding, e.g.13:48
elynnTo me cluster recover should bring cluster back to heal, from its words...13:48
yanyanhuelynn, +113:49
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yanyanhujust we haven't made it support creating node13:49
yanyanhumaybe we can improve it as Qiming said13:49
elynnI just talk about the logic here...Not the implementation...13:49
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Qimingyes, go ahead think about changing the desired_capacity based on current desired_capacity then13:50
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Qimingsee if you can fill the table with correct operations13:50
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Qimingin that picture, min_size is 1 desired is 2, max is 513:50
Qimingthe first row contains  (active)/(total) nodes you have in a cluster13:51
Qimingthen you get a request from user13:51
Qimingtell me what you will do to keep the desired capacity a reality, or even near that number13:51
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Qimingso ... I was really frustrated at chasing desired_capacity in all these operations13:52
yanyanhuQiming, I think user will understand that the real size of cluster could be always different from their desired13:52
Qimingwe should really let users know ... you have your clusters status accurately reported13:52
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yanyanhufor some reasons13:53
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elynnlet me go through this table , it  takes some time...13:53
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Qimingyou make your decisions based on the real size, not the imaginative (desired) capacity13:53
yanyanhubut once that happen, they need to recover their cluster to match the real size to desired13:53
Qimingthat is an ideal case, senlin will do its best, but there will be no guarantee13:53
yanyanhuthat's why we call that opertion "recover" or "heal"13:53
Qimingyanyanhu, what if recover fails13:54
QimingI mean, fails in the middle13:54
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yanyanhuthat could happen13:54
Qimingwe cannot hide that13:54
yanyanhuand it just means recovery failed13:54
Qimingthe recover operation still cannot solve this problem13:54
yanyanhuand user can try it again later maybe13:54
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elynnQiming: let cluster show warning status?13:54
Qimingthen why do we pretend we can achieve desired capacity at all?13:54
elynnAnd stop there..13:55
yanyanhuQiming, yes, but I think no one can ensure that user can always get what they want, right13:55
Qimingyes, recovery operation fails, what's the cluster's status?13:55
Qimingso the logic is really simple13:55
yanyanhuwarning I think13:55
Qimingexpose the current capacity to users13:55
Qiminglet them do their decisions based on the real capacity13:56
elynnfor example, d=5, c=4, scale_out=213:56
Qimingnot the desired capacity13:56
elynnrecover failed13:56
elynnd=7, c=413:56
Qimingthe desired capacity has been proved to be a failure if you have 4 nodes created for a d=5 cluster13:56
elynnit's a warning status I think?13:56
Qiminghow do you explain scale_out=2 ?13:56
Qiminguser mean he want to create 7 nodes?13:57
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ruijieQiming, maybe each action should just do what it should? and let other action or policy to keep the real_capacity=desired13:57
yanyanhuscale_out=2 means the desired_capacity will increase 213:57
elynnuser want to scale_out 2 nodes, he totally want 7 nodes here...13:57
yanyanhuwe even can't guarantee the 2 new nodes will be created correctly13:57
Qimingelynn, users already saw only 4 nodes in the cluster13:57
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elynnIf he only want current nodes +2 ,then he should do recover first and then scale_out I think...13:58
Qimingalright, take a step back13:58
Qimingthink about this13:58
Qimingyou have d=3, c=2, then ceilometer triggers an autoscaling13:58
Qimingskip the user intervention for now13:58
elynnThat's another scenario....13:58
yanyanhuelynn, that is also what I'm thinking actually13:58
Qimingwhat was that decision based?13:58
elynnthat's based on actual nodes...13:59
Qimingwhy shouldn't we keep this consistent?13:59
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yanyanhuQiming, if user leave the bar to ceilometer, I think we can treat ceilometer as the user13:59
Qimingsigh ...13:59
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elynnthat's the confused part...14:00
Qimingpls go through that table14:00
yanyanhuumm, time is over... may keep on discussing it in senlin channel?14:00
Qimingyou will realize what a problem we are facing14:00
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yanyanhuQiming, I see. Will think about it and have more discussion on it14:00
yanyanhuwill end meeting14:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"14:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Sep 20 14:01:01 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)14:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-09-20-13.01.html14:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-09-20-13.01.txt14:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-09-20-13.01.log.html14:01
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yuval#startmeeting karbor14:59
openstackMeeting started Tue Sep 20 14:59:42 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is yuval. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:59
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:59
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: karbor)"14:59
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'karbor'14:59
yuvalHello everybody15:00
yuvalWelcome to Karbor meeting15:00
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yuvalWho's here for the Karbor meeting?15:01
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yuvaloh, hey saggi15:02
saggiHi. On the phone.15:03
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yuvalWell, let's begin15:04
yuval#topic Dashboard Tasks15:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Dashboard Tasks (Meeting topic: karbor)"15:05
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yuvalI noticed there are a few things missing in dashboard15:05
yuval1. we have no scheduled operations page15:05
yuvalscheduled operations created for plans can not be deleted/edited15:05
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yuval2. pages displaying objects, such as checkpoint page, trigger page, etc, do not update the objects statuses15:07
yuvalif a checkpoint is being created, it will stay so until the page is refreshed15:07
yuval3. you can not edit a plan15:07
yuvalxiangxinyong: what do you think about these?15:07
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xiangxinyongyuval:about 115:08
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xiangxinyongas I mentioned, should we add a panel for scheduled operation?15:09
xiangxinyongor add the scheduled operation into operation logs panel?15:09
yuvalxiangxinyong: do we have an alternative?15:09
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yuvalxiangxinyong: not sure how can it fit inside the operation log panel15:10
saggiI think it should have a separate tab.15:10
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xiangxinyongbut what's the difference between the two panels?15:11
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yuvalxiangxinyong: scheduled operations is which operation assigned to which trigger. operations log shows past and current running operations15:12
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yuvalxiangxinyong: regarding 2, I posted a bug regarding it, with details on how cinder handles volume creation15:14
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xiangxinyongyuval: it means we will show scheduled_operations and scheduled_operation_logs table's data15:15
xiangxinyongscheduled_operations table's data is in the scheduled operations panel?15:15
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yuvalxiangxinyong: if I get your right, then yes15:16
xiangxinyongscheduled_operation_logs table's data is in the operation logs panel?15:16
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xiangxinyongwhat about the restores?15:16
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xiangxinyongwe add another panel to show restores?15:17
yuvalyes, that too15:17
xiangxinyongoh. big change.15:18
yuvalwell, that's a discussion15:18
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xiangxinyongat present, we have not API interface aboutscheduled_operation_logs15:19
xiangxinyongat present, we have no API interface about scheduled_operation_logs15:19
yuvalI'll continue to the next topic15:19
yuval#topic Protectables issues15:20
*** openstack changes topic to "Protectables issues (Meeting topic: karbor)"15:20
yuval2 issues here:15:20
yuval1. we list protectables that might be not in an available status15:20
yuval2. glance protectable lists kernel and ramdisk, and I'm not sure it is supposed to15:21
yuvalAlso, when we show a plan that includes a deleted resource, we get an error in dashboard15:21
yuvalI'll open bugs for all of these15:22
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yuval#topic Open Discussion15:22
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: karbor)"15:22
yuvalleon_wang: I believe you wanted to bring something up?15:22
leon_wangI have a proposal that we can collect requirements from OPNFV about Recurer and then launch them in Karbor as BP.What do you think?15:23
leon_wangsorry, Rescurer15:24
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yuvalwhat is rescurer?15:24
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leon_wangThe reason is below:as a system integrater, OPNFV can provide some requirements from customers, I think it would be win-win.15:25
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leon_wangyuval: it's a project about data protection.15:25
zhonghua-leeleon_wang: protection for what?15:26
leon_wangyuval: We will propose it in OPNFV soon.15:26
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leon_wangzhonghua-lee: one of OPNFV key components is OpenStack, so it is what it means.15:27
zhonghua-leeleon_wang: I think i am very interested in that, could you please introduce more?15:27
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leon_wangzhonghua-lee:Since OPNFV will set up a Storage WG, then we want to propose a project about data protection.15:28
zhonghua-leeleon_wang: what's that meaning? what's the difference between Rescurer and Karbor?15:30
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leon_wangzhonghua-lee:it's totally different. the former only collects requirements.15:31
zhonghua-leeleon_wang:only collect requirements, does that mean there is no project?15:33
zhonghua-leeno really coding project15:33
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zhonghua-leemake sense, sounds a good idea.15:33
yuvalleon_wang: sounds like there is a room for collaboration15:33
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yuval*is room15:33
leon_wangyuval:what do you mean?15:33
yuvalleon_wang: we would like to hear more about your proposal15:34
zhonghua-leeyuval:yeah, me too15:34
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yuvalanything else?15:36
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leon_wangyuval: it's my rough thoughts, if you guys thinks it so, I will communicate with OPNFV about concrete things/15:36
yuvalleon_wang: we would like to hear more15:36
leon_wangThey will hold workshop next week and i can communicate with them.15:37
leon_wangthanks yuval and zhonghua-lee.15:37
yuvalthank you!15:37
yuvalanything else?15:37
zhonghua-leeleon_wang: thank you15:37
leon_wangyuval:one thing left.15:37
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leon_wangyuval:about the bp about user isolation,what should i do next?15:38
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yuvalleon_wang: we will discuss it on your patch, and once approved we can start moving to code15:39
leon_wangyuval:ok, thanks15:39
leon_wangI'm done.15:39
yuvalgood night :)15:39
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:40
openstackMeeting ended Tue Sep 20 15:39:58 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:40
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-09-20-14.59.html15:40
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-09-20-14.59.txt15:40
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-09-20-14.59.log.html15:40
leon_wangyuval:good night15:40
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sridhar_ram#startmeeting tacker16:05
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openstackMeeting started Tue Sep 20 16:05:03 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is sridhar_ram. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.16:05
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:05
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:05
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tacker'16:05
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sridhar_ram#topic Roll Call16:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:05
sridhar_ramHi folks !16:05
sridhar_ramsorry for the late start16:06
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sridhar_ramlet's start16:06
sridhar_ram#topic Agenda16:06
*** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:06
sridhar_ram#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Tacker#Meeting_Sep_20th.2C_201616:06
sridhar_ramanything else ?16:06
sridhar_ramI also want to briefly start the discussion on Barcelona Design Summit agenda16:07
KanagarajMsridhar_ram, nice !16:07
sridhar_ramKanagarajM: thanks!16:07
sridhar_ram#topic Announcements16:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:07
sridhar_ram#chair sripriya bobh s3wong KanagarajM16:08
openstackCurrent chairs: KanagarajM bobh s3wong sridhar_ram sripriya16:08
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sridhar_ramOpenStack CLI reference guide include Tacker CLIs...16:09
sridhar_ram#link http://docs.openstack.org/cli-reference/tacker.html16:09
sridhar_ramPlease bookmark this ^^^16:09
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sridhar_ramThis also means we can skip documenting CLI syntax in our usage guide docs and use that instead to describe the feature and its functional benefits16:10
sridhar_ramnext ..16:11
sridhar_ramYou folks stuck with me as the PTL for one more cycle :)16:11
sridhar_ram#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-September/103881.html16:11
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sridhar_ramI've listed few of my thoughts in this email above ^^^16:12
sripriyasridhar_ram: congrats!16:12
sridhar_ramsripriya: thanks!16:12
KanagarajMsridhar_ram, +1 congrats :)16:12
digasripriya: Congrats!16:12
digasridhar_ram: congrats16:12
tung_doansridhar_ram: congrats!16:13
sridhar_ramit just gives me a chance to write about all the amazing things this team delivered ... !16:13
sridhar_ramThanks folks16:14
sridhar_ramI'll also plan for a Newton Retrospective for the next weekly meeting.. please come with your thoughts on what worked well and what didn't ..16:14
sridhar_ram.. we will course correct going forward.16:14
sridhar_rammoving on16:14
sridhar_ram#topic Newton Outstanding items16:14
*** openstack changes topic to "Newton Outstanding items (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:14
sridhar_ramWe are in the last few days for Newton.. mostly for integration issues..16:15
sridhar_ram... except for Alarm Mon.. which is an exception16:15
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sridhar_ramtung_doan: where do we stand ?16:15
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sridhar_ramanyone who reviewed alarm mon - I'd like to hear your opinion16:16
tung_doansridhar_ram: alar monitor  is ready to merge now.. just need some minor changes16:16
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tung_doansridhar_ram: alarm + scaling was lauched16:16
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sridhar_ramtung_doan: good news!16:16
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tung_doansridhar_ram: I need a bit time to finish usage guide16:17
sridhar_ramagain, please keep in mind this (and FFG) will be marked experimental features for Newton... we just need to understand the "boundary" of this16:17
sripriyasridhar_ram: the feature looks fine, i have few concern on the design, but i think we can take it in the next iteration16:17
sridhar_ramtung_doan: usage guide fix ups can come in immediate follow ons.. i want to get in this feature so that it gets atleast few days of soak time16:18
sripriyasridhar_ram: also because the token is set to tacker user context, i’m not sure how the UI is impacted during the webhook callback16:18
sridhar_ramsripriya: anything that would impact existing features (collateral damage) ?16:18
sripriyasridhar_ram: nothing for now16:19
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sridhar_ramsripriya: you mean, the respawn & scale out will happen using different user than the original vnf user ?16:19
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sridhar_rambobh: KanagarajM: did you folks had a chance to review this feature ?16:20
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sripriyasridhar_ram: i’m suspecting that, i can confirm it to you today, i had few issues with my local setup when i pulled this feature yest.16:20
KanagarajMsridhar_ram, I didn't. sorry ...16:20
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bobhsridhar_ram: me neither - I'll try to get to it tonight16:21
sridhar_ramsripriya: sounds good.. thanks a ton for pulling this and trying out..16:21
* bobh 30 lashes....16:21
sridhar_ramKanagarajM: no worries16:21
sridhar_rambobh: thanks16:21
sripriyasridhar_ram: np16:21
tung_doansridhar_ram: thanks all16:21
* sridhar_ram pardons bobh16:21
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sridhar_rami know dkushwaha and gongysh pitched in .. again making this a team effort.. awesome folks16:22
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sridhar_ramhopefully we can gets this in by tomorrow16:22
sridhar_ramnext.. VNF FFG16:22
sridhar_rams3wong: can you give an update on n-sfc driver ?16:22
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trozetsridhar_ram: going to test it in the next hour or so16:23
sridhar_ramtrozet: ah, welcome..16:23
s3wongsridhar_ram: I did some update --- the NeutronClient problem should be fixed by now16:23
sridhar_ramtrozet: s3wong: sounds good..16:23
sridhar_rami'm in the testing team as well :)16:24
sridhar_rami'll pull the latest n-sfc driver ..16:24
digatrozet: Downloading ubuntu16.04, hope my setup will complete by today EOD. Will let you know once done16:24
s3wongsridhar_ram: right now for some reason, my Python and the python within tox doesn't give me the same neutronclient16:24
trozetdiga: cool16:24
sripriyasridhar_ram: can we setup ubuntu 16.04 on gate for functional testing?16:24
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s3wongsridhar_ram: still need to figure it out (I just upgrade my VM to 16.04 yesterday)16:25
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digatrozet: :)16:25
sridhar_ramsripriya: yes, i just looked into this yesterday.. it is easy, i just need to mark the node type to xenial .. but i'm concerned doing this release week16:25
KanagarajMs3wong, sripriya, sridhar_ram, how does the ubutu version affect the tacker testing ?16:25
s3wongsripriya: depends on whether we actually want networking-sfc running as part of our gate16:26
sridhar_ramKanagarajM: for now, newer Ubuntu pulls newer OVS (v2.5) which is a must for n-sfc16:26
sripriyasridhar_ram: okay16:26
KanagarajMsridhar_ram, oh ok thanks16:26
sridhar_ramsripriya: func test for ffg + n-sfc needs to come in a follow on.. we can have a separate dsvm job just for ffg+n-sfc and mark that job to use xenial (16.04)16:27
sripriyasridhar_ram: ok16:28
sridhar_ramtrozet: s3wong: can you take ownership of this work item ... even if this mean post stable/newton ?16:28
sripriyas3wong: maybe having a separate job as above would be good16:28
digasripriya: sridhar_ram16:29
trozetsridhar_ram: i'm definitely not experienced in modifying OS CI, only OPNFV16:29
trozetsridhar_ram: but I can try (would like to learn)16:29
trozetmight take me longer to figure out it out than someone else who already knows it16:29
sridhar_ramtrozet: no worries, i understand.. anyone from the wider tacker community want to take this up16:29
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s3wongsridhar_ram: sure16:30
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sridhar_ramI'm looking to spread Tacker CI job knowledge to the wider tacker community... i can guide anyone who signs up16:31
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sridhar_ramLet me summarize the plans for VNF FFG -16:32
sridhar_ram(1) wrap final integration testing for n-sfc driver by Wednesday and merge the n-sfc driver patchset by Wed EOD16:32
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tbhsridhar_ram, I can take it up, if you want16:32
sridhar_ram(2) trozet owns writing a devref for VNF FFG and this needs to wrap and merge by Friday16:32
sridhar_ram(3) func test and CI job using 16.04 dsvm will be added post newton release16:33
sridhar_ramtbh: thanks, that will be a good skill set for you to pick up16:33
s3wongsridhar_ram: sounds like a good plan16:33
sridhar_ramtbh: so, you own (3) above. Sounds okay ?16:34
digasridhar_ram: +116:34
tbhsridhar_ram, yes16:34
sridhar_ramtbh: thanks!16:34
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sridhar_rams3wong: diga: ack!16:34
sridhar_ramtrozet: what do you think ?16:34
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digasridhar_ram: I can take func test if you want16:35
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sridhar_ramdiga: let tbh take a swing at it first, we can percolate that knowledge further as needed16:35
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digaif tbh is ok with it :)16:35
sridhar_ramanything else related to Newton ?16:36
KanagarajMsridhar_ram, one small patch on scaling :)16:36
sridhar_ramI'll request the final newton tag and release request by Monday Sept 26th16:36
sridhar_ramKanagarajM: link pls16:36
sripriyasridhar_ram: we have few non feature related patches that needs to be merged16:36
trozetsridhar_ram: fine with me16:37
sridhar_ramtrozet: thanks!16:37
sridhar_ramsripriya: pls flag them in the channel after this meeting.. hopefully it is a short list16:37
sripriyasridhar_ram: yes16:37
sridhar_ramtbh: btw, did the heat-translator fix merge ?16:38
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tbhsridhar_ram, KanagarajM  decided to go with the scaling changes in Tacker16:39
KanagarajMsridhar_ram, seems tbh is not there .. we had a quick meeting today16:39
KanagarajMtbh, pls go ahead :)16:39
sridhar_ramKanagarajM: bobh: team: is any of your features waiting for a newer tosca-parser or heat-translator ?16:39
sridhar_ramtbh: KanagarajM: can you elaborate on the new plan?16:39
KanagarajMsridhar_ram, as this the release time, i have asked to make sure that new translator does not break tacker functioanlity16:39
bobhsridhar_ram: I just chatted with spzala and we may hold the new heat translator version until after Newton releases16:40
sridhar_ramKanagarajM: +2, i was super worried about that as well16:40
KanagarajMand it was concluded that, if anything break, translator would provide an quick fix on it16:40
bobhsridhar_ram: so we can get a whole cycle in with the changes16:40
sridhar_rambobh: phew, sigh of relief16:40
KanagarajMsridhar_ram, yes,16:40
sridhar_ramKanagarajM: now, what is the plan to support selective VDU scaling ?16:41
sridhar_ramKanagarajM: assuming, we are not going to wait for a fix in heat-translator16:41
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KanagarajMsridhar_ram, in newton, i think its not possible :( and we could enable it early ocata.16:42
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sridhar_ramKanagarajM: ouch :(16:42
KanagarajMsridhar_ram, considering the time for release, i would like to go this way, instead of breaking existing support atleast !16:42
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sridhar_ramKanagarajM: is there any work around (bug fix) possible in the tacker scaling code itself ?16:42
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sridhar_ramKanagarajM: overall i agree, new heat-translator version at this stage is risky16:43
KanagarajMsridhar_ram, workarround, might not possible now.16:43
sridhar_ramKanagarajM: okay, can you place a "Note" in the scaling devref regarding this ?16:44
KanagarajMsridhar_ram, because, it would involve more no. of lines in tacker side, which would repeat the logics from the heat translaotr16:44
KanagarajMsridhar_ram, sure. I will do that.16:45
sridhar_ramKanagarajM: would those new lines isolated to the scaling logic of Tacker ?16:45
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KanagarajMsridhar_ram, i don't think so and it would be part of the scaling logic and it would need to change the way tmpl generated in tacker heat driver. at this point in time, it would be risky to even address it16:47
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sridhar_ramKanagarajM: I see..16:47
sridhar_ramKanagarajM: okay16:47
KanagarajMsridhar_ram, thanks.16:48
sridhar_ramtbh: bobh: KanagarajM: spzala: thanks for trying hard on this.. i appreciate it. I agree it is not work the risk at this stage..16:48
sridhar_ram*not worth16:48
* sridhar_ram notes 10mins left16:49
sridhar_ramanything else on Newton ?16:49
sridhar_ram#topic Ocata Planning16:49
*** openstack changes topic to "Ocata Planning (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:49
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sridhar_ramFew quick notes on Barcelona Design Summit16:50
sridhar_ram#link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TQ-RSlbiBBEclkonIbfUP7R1ExZSJylF1uiEKV2G_Cw/pubhtml?gid=1107826458&single=true16:50
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digasridhar_ram: I have submitted API framework spec - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/368511/16:50
digaplease review16:50
sridhar_ramPlease mark you calendars for Tacker design summit slot mentioned in the above schedule ^^^^16:50
sridhar_ramI also created an etherpad to "all-things-barcelona" here..16:51
sridhar_ram#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/tacker-ocata-summit16:51
sridhar_ramPlease use this for all summit related things16:51
sridhar_ramdiga: sure, will review16:51
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sridhar_ramIMO, we should wrap up the low-hanging fruit items for Ocata .. which is VNFC and NSD spec..16:52
sridhar_ramshall we shoot to land these two specs within next two weeks ?16:52
sridhar_ramtbh: dkushwaha: manikanta_tadi: what do you think ?16:53
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manikanta-tadiWe can try16:53
tbhsridhar_ram, sure I am not sure will get the reviews on the spec at this moment16:54
sridhar_ramI'll give a shout out to the reviewers and core team to start reviewing VNFC and NSD16:54
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tbhsridhar_ram, because we still not decided the VNFC drivers to support yet16:55
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tbhsridhar_ram, :) thanks16:55
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sridhar_ramtbh: let's put VNFC for next week's call16:55
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sridhar_ramwe are out of time for today..16:56
tbhsridhar_ram, sure, that will be helpful16:56
sridhar_ramplease continue to think along the lines we documented for Ocata ..16:56
sridhar_ram#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/tacker-ocata-grooming16:56
sridhar_ram#topic Open Discussion16:56
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:56
sridhar_ramanything else team ?16:57
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sridhar_ramlets wrap then16:57
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"16:57
openstackMeeting ended Tue Sep 20 16:57:40 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)16:57
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-09-20-16.05.html16:57
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-09-20-16.05.txt16:57
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-09-20-16.05.log.html16:57
sridhar_rambye everyone16:57
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asselin__#startmeeting third-party17:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Sep 20 17:01:17 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is asselin__. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)"17:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'third_party'17:01
asselin__anyone around for 3rd party ci working meeting?17:01
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ja3da I yam17:01
ja3IIRC, misha is out today17:02
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asselin__yes he is17:02
asselin__ja3 do you have any topics to cover today?17:03
ja3I assume we're pretty much recycling the agenda.  Nothing new.  Ji Chen will be talking to nova "soon" about us becoming non-voting.17:03
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asselin__Yeah, there's not much active working going on. I take it as a good thing: means stuff is working.17:04
ja3"good problem to have" as someone once said17:05
asselin__But this patch pair is still open:17:05
asselin__Enable a specific version of jenkins to be installed https://review.openstack.org/#/c/366803/17:06
asselin__#link Enable a specific version of jenkins to be installed https://review.openstack.org/#/c/366803/17:06
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ja3seems to be waiting for a core to +2 it17:07
asselin__I pinged fungi yesterday, but most folks are doing an in-person sprint. Maybe next week I'll ping some more folks.17:08
fungiyeah, i'm not actually there with them, but as a result i'm a bit more busy trying to make sure they can focus17:08
ja3in person, must be nice ;-)17:08
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fungisap wanted to host a sprint for the qa team, and offered to let infra team members join in and make it a co-op17:09
asselin__I think that's great. I bet lots of good things will come out of that.17:10
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asselin__#link firehose.openstack.org announcement http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-September/103985.html17:11
asselin__This is really neat ^^17:11
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ja3yes, ji chen forwarded that around17:12
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asselin__ja3 anything else to bring up? otherwise we can keep this meeting short17:15
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ja3nope, I'm all about short.17:16
asselin__ok thanks!17:16
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:17
openstackMeeting ended Tue Sep 20 17:17:02 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:17
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-09-20-17.01.html17:17
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-09-20-17.01.txt17:17
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-09-20-17.01.log.html17:17
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dstanekkeystone meeting ping: ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, crinkle, claudiub, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, gagehugo, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, jaugustine, joesavak, jorge_munoz, knikolla, lbragstad, MaxPC, morgan, nishaYadav, nkinder, notmorgan, raildo, rodrigods, rderose, roxanaghe, samleon, samueldmq, shaleh, stevemar, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd,18:00
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dstanekwanghong, xek18:00
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lbragstaddstanek o/18:00
dstanekstevemar is busy so y'all are stuck with me today18:00
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samueldmqhi all18:01
ayoungWhat is it now?18:01
shalehayoung: more diapers :-)18:01
dstanekshaleh: ++18:01
dstanekok, let's get rolling18:01
dstanek#startmeeting keystone18:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Sep 20 18:01:40 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is dstanek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:01
dstanek#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting18:01
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dstanekthe first bunch or topics are really just announcements; let's get started18:01
dstanek#topic RC status18:02
*** openstack changes topic to "RC status (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:02
dstanekRC1 was tagged on Thursday last week, we will be releasing RC2 this week or next18:02
dstanek#link https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/newton-rc218:02
dstanekOnly bug has been backported so far: link https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/162120018:02
openstackLaunchpad bug 1621200 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) newton "password created_at does not honor timezones" [High,Fix committed] - Assigned to Ron De Rose (ronald-de-rose)18:02
dstanekif you know of other bugs that need to be backported we should get on that18:02
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dstanekquestions, comments or concerns?18:03
bknudsonother than this problem keystone is perfect.18:03
dstanekmoving along then18:04
dstanek#topic newton retrospective18:04
*** openstack changes topic to "newton retrospective (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:04
dstanek#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-newton-retrospective18:04
dstanekhas everyone seen this yet?18:04
bknudsonnew to me18:04
rderosestarted, but need to add more18:05
dstanekit would be really great if everyone can help out and add some content18:05
dstanekthis way we can all improve and make sure as a project we are healthy18:05
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dstanekno reason to 'make keystone great again' if we never let it slip18:06
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dstanekso please do take a few minutes to give some honest feedback18:06
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dstanekquestions, comments or concerns?18:07
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* ayoung needs more time to work on Keystone18:07
* bknudson too18:07
gagehugowtb more time18:08
dstanekmaybe this cycle you'll get to focus more on it18:08
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dstanek#topic release stable/mitaka18:08
*** openstack changes topic to "release stable/mitaka (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:08
dstanekwe were waiting on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/369618/ but this is now merged18:08
dstanekproposed to release 9.2.018:08
dstanek#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/372771/18:08
dstanekAre there any other fixes that folks want in mitaka? it'll soon become the N-2 release -- only security and critical fixes are backport candidates18:09
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dstanekthis is the part where you guys/gals give some feedback18:10
rodrigodshope the ksc functional tests issue is not related to keystone server18:10
rodrigodswill talk more about when the topic arrives18:11
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stevemar_droidI'm marginally paying attention18:11
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dstanekeither everyone is sleeping or keystone/mitaka is perfect :-) either way i'll move on18:12
dstanek#topic service provider filters [knikolla]18:12
*** openstack changes topic to "service provider filters [knikolla] (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:12
stevemar_droidI was expecting Breton to have a few he wanted to back port:)18:13
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dstanekknikolla: are you around?18:13
dstanekyou have the floor18:13
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knikollaso i ran into that spec in the backlog. was interested in picking it up. what's the status? why was it sent back to the backlog? is there interest for me to pick it up?18:13
dstanekstevemar_droid: i don't think i saw him at roll call18:13
knikollait's potentially useful for some of my projects18:14
knikollain the long term18:14
rodrigodsknikolla, you can pick it up18:14
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dstanek#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/371754/18:14
rodrigodsabout the status... i'm not sure18:14
rodrigodsthink the better source is the bp18:14
dstanekwho created the spec?18:14
lbragstadI thought folks were on the fence about it since we couldn't decide if we wanted to improve OS-EP-FILTER or just create something new18:14
samueldmqlbragstad: ++18:14
stevemar_droidI don't remember why it went to backlog. It involves creating a lot of new APIs :(18:14
* rodrigods did18:15
samueldmqI was for creating a new, as sp has nothing to do with endpoints18:15
stevemar_droidThe os-ep-fikter stuff has been buggy18:15
rodrigodssamueldmq, it has everything to do with endpoints18:15
samueldmqnot in our APIs18:15
rodrigodsthat's true18:15
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rodrigodsconceptually, they are just another region endpoint18:16
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dstanekis there more discussion needed about the actual proposal?18:16
rodrigodsbut was implemented/displayed differently18:16
bknudsonI think we should create something new rather than continuing with endpoint filtering18:16
notmorgan bknudson ++18:16
lbragstadbknudson why is that?18:16
samueldmqbknudson: ++18:16
samueldmqthat's my opinion too18:17
notmorganthe catalog should be almost static18:17
bknudsonI just don't see how endpoint filtering can be efficient18:17
notmorganchanging based upon scope is just awful and will never be efficient18:17
bknudsonright, since the catalog is static there should be what are essentially named catalogs.18:17
rodrigodsthat idea came from reseller18:17
* notmorgan gets on this soapbox again18:17
rodrigodsand hide SPs based on domains18:17
rodrigodsso if i'm inside a reselled cloud (aka a domain)18:18
notmorganSPs should be removed from the catalog and under their own api18:18
rodrigodsmy seller won't be able to see my SPs18:18
notmorgansince they are much more limitedly used18:18
notmorgancatalog is used for a ton of things18:18
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notmorganto make the basic cloud work18:18
samueldmqnotmorgan: ++18:18
dstaneknotmorgan: ++18:18
dstanekit doens't make sense to have them there18:19
notmorganSPs are used for federation and are use heavily when federated, but shouldn't be conflated with the catalog wich is the local cloud.18:19
lbragstaddstanek the service providers in the catalog you mean?18:19
samueldmqauth catalog ?18:19
rodrigodsthink our plugins rely on them being on the catalog18:19
dstaneklbragstad: yes18:19
* rodrigods needs to double check18:19
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bknudsonplugins can be changed18:19
notmorganrodrigods: somewhat, but that can be changes18:20
notmorgansamueldmq: no. call it service providers18:20
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notmorgandon't overload the name catalog more ;)18:20
notmorgani don;t know where catalog Tng work is18:20
rodrigodsisn't this an API change?18:20
notmorganbut with that work, SPs should not exist in the catalog18:21
bknudsonmaybe catalog TNG work will get started back up in O.18:21
ayoungI think I had a spec that matches "named catalogs" bknudson18:21
notmorgancatlog tng should also move catlog to /catalog18:21
bknudsonayoung: yep, I've seen it.18:21
notmorganwhich could then handle named catlogs18:21
notmorganor whatever18:21
ayoungnotmorgan, yes18:21
notmorganbut again catalogs should be effectively static18:22
ayoungcatalog/default  and catalog/all18:22
notmorgannamed or not18:22
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ayoungmake it a git repo and you can do git checkout catalog:<tag>18:22
ayoungcatalog fetch should be separate from the token anyway18:22
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dstanekayoung: ++18:22
notmorganayoung: yes18:22
lbragstadthat would be glorious18:22
ayoungWant to do it based on hash, actually, so we can tell if the default has changed18:23
rodrigodsback to PKI!18:23
ayoungrodrigods, that was where the idea came from, but it stands on its own even for uuid tokens18:23
dstanekknikolla: so are you still interested in this topic?18:23
samueldmqafter all this :-)18:23
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knikolladstanek: yes, if you have a spec for me which also filters the service providers18:23
samueldmq(all this motivation)18:24
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knikolladstanek: i'm ok with doing it the some other way, if the current spec is not the right way18:24
rodrigodsat least any work that has been merged in this front should be reverted18:24
dstanekknikolla: it sounds more like a new spec has to be created for this work18:24
lbragstadso - it sounds like instead of improving the current filter the general consensus is to move service providers to their own api18:24
lbragstaddstanek ++18:24
lbragstador we can try to rework the existing spec18:24
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rodrigodsif removed from catalog18:25
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rodrigodsfiltering it is just matter of adding a domain_id field18:25
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rodrigodsjust like we did for roles18:25
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knikollai can do the implementation, for the spec we should have a longer discussion.18:26
knikollafor now lets give the floor to the ksc gate18:26
dstanekknikolla: ok, if you can start to drive that discussion in #openstack-keystone using what was said here as the base18:26
dstanekyou can give our a spec based off of those discussions18:26
knikolladstanek: sounds good.18:27
dstanek#action knikolla to start driving discussions for a service provider api18:27
dstanek#topic keystoneclient gate is busted18:27
*** openstack changes topic to "keystoneclient gate is busted (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:27
dstanek#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/python-keystoneclient18:27
* rodrigods did a bit of investigation18:27
dstanekany volunteers to look at it?18:27
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dstanekrodrigods: what did you find out?18:27
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rodrigodssometimes the tokens are not authorized18:28
stevemar_droidIt started around 3 days ago18:28
bknudsonlots of unauthorized18:28
dstanekhave you been able to find clues as to why?18:28
bknudsonI like how the test output has the request ID : req-3b10a7e2-abe2-4e46-9809-d56456e21a79 !18:29
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rodrigodsfor example: http://paste.openstack.org/show/582301/18:29
raildoI wondering if it's the same issue on the v3-only gates18:29
stevemar_droidNice, didn't know that merged... bknudson18:29
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rodrigodsksc functional tests uses the devstack user18:29
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bknudsonthen of course the keystone log is useless.18:29
ayoungcould it be an artifact of Fernet and things happening too fast?18:30
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rodrigodsso it should be authorized18:30
stevemar_droidRaildo, probably not. The devstack one looks glance related18:30
stevemar_droidayoung, fernet isn't merged yet18:30
lbragstadafaik the only fernet related patches were the consistent handling of datetimes18:30
dstanek"Invalid user token" - what causes that?18:30
bknudsonit looks like it's saying there's no token in the request.18:31
rodrigodsthe error is also reproducible in my local devstack18:31
ayoungrevocation.  expired18:31
dstanekrodrigods: oh, cool. that makes it much easier to actually debug.18:31
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samueldmqdstanek: +=18:31
samueldmqjust put LOGs everywhere and narrow it down18:32
bknudsondstanek: The "Invalid user token" was a different request.18:32
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lbragstadwe modified the token expiration to always round down - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/368244/2/keystone/token/provider.py,unified18:32
lbragstadbut that shouldn't have any impact on this18:32
bknudsonthere's 3 logs for the req-3b10a7e2-abe2-4e46-9809-d56456e21a79 request18:32
dstanekbknudson: yeah, i was that. i don't remember seeing that in my logs, but with 100k lines per request i may have just missed it18:33
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dstanekrodrigods: ok, are you going to continue on this bug?18:33
bknudson100k lines per request!18:33
dstanekbknudson: i may be rounding down :-P18:34
rodrigodsyes, but i might be preempted soon18:34
rodrigodsso more volunteers can help a lot18:34
dstanekrodrigods: ok, when you feel like that time is coming if you help my get my devstack in this state i can help pick it up18:34
rodrigodsdstanek, sounds good18:34
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bknudsonkeystone still needs better logging.18:35
dstanek#action rodrigods to continue debugging the ksc gate issue18:35
dstanekbknudson: are you volunteering?18:35
bknudsonIt's been on my plate for a long time.18:35
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dstanekbknudson: i'd love to review that!18:36
dstanek... moving on18:36
dstanek#topic identity v3 job for devstack (non-voting) broken18:36
*** openstack changes topic to "identity v3 job for devstack (non-voting) broken (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:36
dstanekwas mentioned last meeting18:36
dstanekthe job is: gate-tempest-dsvm-neutron-identity-v3-only-full-ubuntu-xenial-nv18:36
dstanekany update on this?18:36
samueldmqraildo: ^18:36
dstanekLooks like someone posted https://review.openstack.org/#/c/369675/ to partially fix it18:36
raildoso about this issue, I investigated and talk with jamielennox earlier, we saw that glance could not find the switf endpoint using keystone v3.18:36
raildoas you can see here: http://paste.openstack.org/show/582302/18:37
rodrigodsis the call using ?nocatalog for some reason?18:37
raildoin addition, this commit had changed this code: https://github.com/openstack/glance_store/commit/fb77cb73c5daa9f78dbf13d9c943c91f92ba0298 not sure how this change impact this problem.18:37
rodrigods^ just throwing out guesses18:38
bknudsonhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/369675/ passes v318:38
* ayoung suggests getting rid of glance18:39
bknudsonthat's a change in devstack18:39
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raildofinally I have a patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/324100/6 to add keystoneauth sessions support on glance, so this patch may fix this v2-v3 issues on glance.18:39
ayoungraildo, Nice18:39
raildobut we have to go deeper on this glance-swift issue...18:40
raildosince, this jobs didn't changed anything about that18:40
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notmorganhave a breif thing for the end of the meeting dstanek18:40
notmorganlike ~2m if tht is ok18:41
dstanekraildo: is this something you are going to continue to work through?18:41
dstaneknotmorgan: shore18:41
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raildodstanek, I'll continue working on the keystoneauth support on glance, and on this glance-swift issue18:41
bknudsonif https://review.openstack.org/#/c/369675/ is merged is that going to cause problems getting a better fix in place?18:41
bknudsonbecause it looks like https://review.openstack.org/#/c/369675/ gets it working again.18:42
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raildobknudson, I think we have to fix it when we solve this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/glance-store/+bug/162099918:43
openstackLaunchpad bug 1620999 in glance_store "swift driver ignores user_domain_name and project_domain_name settings" [High,Triaged]18:43
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dstanekraildo: please ask if you need help18:45
dstanek... moving along18:45
dstanek#topic Cannot list flavors using a v3 token18:45
*** openstack changes topic to "Cannot list flavors using a v3 token (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:45
dstanekNova team is asking for help with a bug18:45
dstanek#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/159357318:45
openstackLaunchpad bug 1593573 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "flavor image listing failed while calling Nova API with token from http://[host-ip]/identity/v3 " [Undecided,Incomplete] - Assigned to viswesuwara nathan (viswesn)18:45
raildodstanek, sure, I think jamielennox will work with me on it18:45
dstanekraildo: great18:45
dstanekdoes anyone have any bandwith to help with this one?18:46
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shalehdstanek: stevemar posted on it18:46
shalehit looks to be working now?18:46
dstanekshaleh: yes, he's also looking for help on it :-)18:47
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dstanekok, sounds like a no18:48
lbragstadi can poke at it18:48
shalehdstanek: I mean he posted on the bug itself. It appears to be ok now.18:48
shalehit may just need another validation.18:48
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lbragstadi'll see if I can recreate it on a fresh devstack18:48
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shalehlbragstad: ++18:48
dstanekshaleh: that would be great if it now just works!18:48
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dstaneklbragstad: thx, maybe there's not much to do here. you can also reach out to the nova crew and see if they are still seeing the issue18:49
dstanek#action lbragstad to look into helping on https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/159357318:49
openstackLaunchpad bug 1593573 in OpenStack Compute (nova) "flavor image listing failed while calling Nova API with token from http://[host-ip]/identity/v3 " [Undecided,Incomplete] - Assigned to viswesuwara nathan (viswesn)18:49
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lbragstaddstanek agreed, I'll see if they are still seeing and updated the meeting agenda with the action item18:49
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dstanekok notmorgan18:50
dstanek#topic a brief topic from notmorgan18:50
*** openstack changes topic to "a brief topic from notmorgan (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:50
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notmorgankeystone, keystonemiddlwarew, keystoneauth, pycadf need some security love18:50
notmorganwe need to get a pblic threat analysis done on them18:51
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notmorgana couple of these projects are not covered by the VMT18:51
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notmorgannotably, keystonemiddleware and keystoneauth18:51
notmorgan(KSC needs it too, but less important since it[s ust the client software)18:51
dstanekhow do we get them covered?18:51
notmorganyou need to go through the process to get them covered18:52
notmorganwith starts with a threat analysis that is accepted by the ossg18:52
lbragstadvulnerability maangement team?18:52
notmorganshaleh: vuln. management team18:52
dstaneknotmorgan: is there a link for the process?18:52
notmorgandstanek: looking for it sec.18:52
notmorgan#link https://governance.openstack.org/reference/tags/vulnerability_managed.html18:53
notmorgansee the Tag application process18:53
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notmorganand requirements18:54
notmorgannumber 5 for the requirements is what we need18:54
notmorgankeystone and ksc are covered atm18:54
bknudsonis this just because we broken authtoken out of keystoneclient?18:54
bknudsonand auth out of keystoneclient?18:54
notmorganksm was never covered after the breakout18:54
notmorgansame with ksa18:54
notmorganan oversight, but it is where we are today18:55
dstaneknotmorgan: how do we get a third party audit18:55
notmorgandstanek: someone (rax, RH, etc) can volunteer to have a security audit18:55
bknudsonmaybe something to get done during the summit?18:55
notmorganor a group that does it normally (some company/individual that is capable)18:55
notmorganthis should be something not done at the summit but as a general task18:56
notmorgana TA is not usually summit timeline type thing18:56
dstanekok, running out of time....18:56
notmorganbut in short18:56
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dstaneki'll take the task of figuring out our nexts steps here and working with stevemar_droid to make it happen18:56
notmorgankeystone is covered, but we (the VMT) are going to start requiring refreshes of threat analysis / security review long term18:56
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notmorganso we should lead here as keystone18:57
notmorganand get all our repos covered *and* evaluated18:57
notmorganespecially ksa and ksm18:57
dstaneknotmorgan: is #openstack-security a good resource for questions i have on the docs?18:57
notmorganyes. also you can ask fungi, tristanc, myself, gmurphy18:57
notmorgan(the VMT)18:57
notmorganbut openstack-security is where i'd start18:58
dstanek#action dstanek to take the task of figuring out our nexts steps here and working with stevemar_droid to make it happen18:58
* fungi is thrilled to see this starting18:58
dstanek2 mins.....18:58
notmorganyou might want to make tht action more descriptive ;)18:58
lbragstaddstanek... makin' it happen18:58
dstanek#topic open discussion18:58
notmorganbecause you're making "what" happen18:58
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:58
notmorganfungi: ;)18:58
dstanek#action dstanek to be project manager for getting identity team repos under VMT19:00
notmorganthere we go19:00
* dstanek will make it rain19:00
notmorgandstanek: i... uh19:00
* notmorgan goes back to lurking under a rock19:00
dstanekthat's time19:00
lbragstad'um yeah - we're gonna have to have you come in on Saturday'19:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Sep 20 19:00:47 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-09-20-18.01.html19:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-09-20-18.01.txt19:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-09-20-18.01.log.html19:00
fungiNOTE: no infra meeting this week with most of the team at an in-person sprint, per http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-09-13-19.02.html19:01
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notmorganfungi: but... i wanted to have a meeting with just you and me19:01
notmorganso we can make all sorts of whacky declarations19:01
notmorganand see if anyone pays attention to them19:01
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fungii already do that anyway, i just do it in #openstack-infra19:02
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notmorganrelated: I've very happe to not have been on an plane this week19:02
notmorganI do not envy those who were19:02
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ttxknock knock20:00
mesterywho's there?20:00
* dtroyer_zz will bite20:00
amrithwho's there20:00
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ttxannegentle, dims, dhellmann, flaper87, johnthetubaguy, mtreinish, thingee, mordred, russellb, sdague: around ?20:00
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* jroll pokes his head in20:00
* edleafe sits on the side for a better view20:00
ttx#startmeeting tc20:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Sep 20 20:01:06 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"20:01
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'20:01
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ttxOur agenda for today:20:01
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee20:01
ttx(remember to use #info #idea and #link liberally to make for a more readable summary)20:02
ttx#topic Update tags per the validate tags script20:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Update tags per the validate tags script (Meeting topic: tc)"20:02
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* Rockyg sneaks in a side door20:02
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/36808620:02
ttxOur semi-regular diversity tag updates20:02
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ttxOn the good side, OpenStack-Chef now has diverse-affiliation (thanks to WorkDay & CloudBau's involvement)20:02
ttxand Murano is no longer single-vendor, thanks to 99cloud's involvement20:02
ttxOn the sad side, Telemetry lost its diverse-affiliation, and TripleO is now single-vendor20:02
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ttxWe have enough votes and no objection to approve this now20:03
annegentle#info  OpenStack-Chef now has diverse-affiliation (thanks to WorkDay & CloudBau's involvement)20:03
annegentle#info Murano is no longer single-vendor, thanks to 99cloud's involvement20:03
annegentle#info Telemetry lost its diverse-affiliation, and TripleO is now single-vendor20:03
flaper87annegentle: NICE! thanks :D20:03
* ttx approves20:03
annegentleheh, copy/paste to success20:03
ttx#topic Add Ocata goal split out tempest plugins20:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Add Ocata goal split out tempest plugins (Meeting topic: tc)"20:04
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/36974920:04
ttxmtreinish proposed this alternate goal for Ocata, I think it's a reasonable one20:04
ttxThe question is more, is the Ocata goal list still open at this stage20:04
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ttxI'm fine with it if we approve it ASAP, but it feels like the PTLs haven't seen that one yet, so we migth want to wait a bit, which may push us beyond acceptable time20:05
ttxOpinions ?20:05
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flaper87ttx: we probably don't need to be as strict with it as we just worked on this20:05
sdagueI think it's a good thing to do for sure20:05
dhellmannyes, my only real concern with this is the timing20:05
anteayawhat is the consequence of not reaching the goal?20:05
flaper87I mean, I'd be good to have it in Ocata if the plan sounds realistic for the Ocata timeframe20:05
ttxdhellmann: what are the things taht are sticky to timing ?20:05
ttxdhellmann: there is the cross-project workshop list20:05
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ttxand then there is the goal assessment deadline on the release schedule20:06
ttxanything else ?20:06
sdaguebut, I thought the goals were supposed to be stuff everyone more or less agreed on, and there are some comments in there that make it sound like some projects don't fundamentally agree with it20:06
dhellmannyeah, and resolving whatever issues people felt we had with the goal process in general that kept us from being able to approve the python 3 goal20:06
amrithsdague ++ I thought that we'd agreed that we would have discussions on the ML before a goal was approved. I don't know that we have done that, I certainly have missed it if we did.20:06
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mugsieso, for most porject sthat have an in-tree plugin this should be simple enought to split out20:06
ttxargh, missed those recent objections20:06
* jroll is not fully convinced on the usefulness of doing this, but not enough to -1 here20:06
sdaguemugsie: yes, it's honestly all very mechanical20:06
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mugsiethe issue is that it forces projects to make API changes compatible20:07
mugsiewhich can slow down dev20:07
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mugsiebut in turn helps users20:07
amrithmugsie, please note that there is some funny tooling for at least two projects (trove is one) as mentioned by matt in his comments.20:07
flaper87FWIW, I don't think anyone has said we should approve when there's disagreement. At least I was not expecting it to be approved now.20:07
sdaguemugsie: which is supposed to be a standard20:07
dhellmannmugsie : right, that's a thing we want as a community20:07
mugsiedesignate has it, and I think it is definitly the way forward20:07
ttxanteaya: bad karma20:07
flaper87mugsie: ++20:07
anteayattx: okay, thank you20:07
annegentlemugsie thanks for that20:07
mugsieit has made us stop and think quite a few times20:08
sdaguejroll: tempest is a branchless model, so plugins in branches end up causing massive confusion20:08
mugsieamrith: what weird tooling do you have for tempest?20:08
sdaguethe plugin structions really need to mirror the consuming structure20:08
amrithmugsie, read mtreinish' comment in the review20:09
sdaguewhich is why this is different than devstack, where it has branches that match project branches20:09
* ttx reads the comments he somehow failed to receive notifications for20:09
johnthetubaguyI like mtreinish's recent comments on why it needs splitting out20:09
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mugsieyeah, me too20:09
dougwigi get the impression that some of us have difference experiences with "drive by contributors" and follow-up patches, which is where multi-repo becomes a massive heartache, especially with non-fun follow-ons.20:09
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johnthetubaguythat was all news to me, and kinda makes sense20:09
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dtroyer_zzthose comments need to be preserved, like johnthetubaguy pointed out, maybe added to the doc?20:10
ttxok, I don't think we can get to consensual state in the timeframe we have for Ocata goals20:10
mugsiethere is a hack to make it work the way it should, and doing this removes the need for the hack, is what i am reading20:10
flaper87dougwig: what about Depends-On, is that something projects are aware of and using ?20:10
jrollsdague: yeah, I get it, I'm someone who has the plugin in-tree. not opposed, just not convinced yet20:10
johnthetubaguydtroyer_zz: yeah, I think it should be in the doc20:10
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dhellmannjohnthetubaguy , dtroyer_zz : ++20:10
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thingeeflaper87: +120:11
dougwigflaper87: certainly, but once "the code" is in, there's no way to force someone to finish the test commit.  maybe that means the initial code shouldn't have landed, but we have problems there today with one repo.20:11
dhellmannalso the point about helping to ensure API compatibility is maintained should be added20:11
johnthetubaguydepends-on is what makes this palatable I think20:11
sdaguedougwig: right, you can block on depends-on20:11
dougwigdepends-on doesn't work branchless, either.20:11
sdaguedougwig: yes it does20:11
dhellmannit would be good to address the process questions dougwig is raising20:11
flaper87dougwig: have you hit any issue?20:11
flaper87dhellmann: perhaps something to also have as recommendation in the goal itself20:12
flaper87mtreinish: ^20:12
dhellmannflaper87 : yeah20:12
dhellmannthat's what I meant20:12
dougwigoh?  my mind was just blown.  so a stable/mitaka commit can depend on a master commit?20:12
sdaguedougwig: yes20:12
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dhellmanndougwig : yes20:12
dougwigoh, sweet.20:12
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flaper87dhellmann: a-ha, gotcha :D20:12
ttxdhellmann: what's your take -- do you really think we can get fast enough ietartions/response to get that one in Ocata in a reasonable time ?20:13
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flaper87I'm happy to help, fwiw20:13
flaper87mtreinish: ^20:13
dhellmannttx: I'm skeptical, but I don't know how busy mtreinish is right now.20:13
ttxI think that people like to resist goals and we need a /lot/ of time to pass them20:13
anteayahe is at a sprint in germany this week20:13
johnthetubaguyI was kinda expecting to approve a some goals post summit, it feels like this could be one of those20:14
mugsieI think a lot of the work can be nearly coookie-cuttered20:14
dhellmannwe should make sure there's a cross-project session on this20:14
johnthetubaguydhellmann: in the goals session, or separate?20:14
dhellmannmugsie : yeah, the work itself is going to be pretty mechanical. the bigger hurdle is convincing projects to actually do it.20:14
mugsiedhellmann: yup20:14
ttxjohnthetubaguy: post-summit we'll start the process of approving Pike goals20:14
dhellmannjohnthetubaguy : if we need to dig into the details, it should have its own session20:14
dhellmannjohnthetubaguy : the goals session we have up now is supposed to be about the general process, right?20:14
annegentleyeah, I think revising to add the use cases and benefits up front could mean we can get this discussed by leading with the "why"20:15
johnthetubaguydhellmann: yeah, I think thats the way I am leaning too, more just clarifying20:15
annegentleand seems do-able by summit20:15
dhellmannjohnthetubaguy : ++20:15
annegentleand at summit revisions as needed20:15
johnthetubaguy#idea have a cross project session on tempest plugins and patterns20:15
jrollmugsie: it's actually not a super easy transition to move from in-tree to out-of-tree, it involves project-config changes that aren't self tested, and a bunch of cross-repo commits. it's doable but is easy to break a gate or be running less tests for some time20:16
ttxOK, so maybe we should just consider the Ocata list closed and start the discussion in Barcelona for a potential Pike goal around tempest20:16
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flaper87fwiw, I think it's fine to have this in Pike too. I'd love to see it as part of Ocata but I don't want to rush things20:16
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jrollI agree easy to get done within a cycle, but it isn't trivial20:16
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dhellmannjroll : right, part of the pre-work for this will be to document a reliable process for the transition20:16
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mugsiettx: I think Pike is a better goal, just based on timing20:16
annegentlettx part of the point of goals is to prioritize work20:16
dhellmannttx: unfortunately, I think that's the state we're in, yes.20:16
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jrolldhellmann: cool20:17
ttxmugsie: yeah20:17
mugsiefor example I had no idea this was a thing until I ready the agenda this afternoon20:17
annegentlettx so if we think it's important enough, then we could prioritize it with discussion20:17
anteayathe ocata goal could be to have this be a pike goal with documentation and process in place20:17
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mugsieso, ptls might like a longer heads up20:17
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annegentleyeah might be mugsie20:17
dimsttx : yeah it probably late :(20:17
dhellmannmugsie : ++20:17
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ttxmugsie: yeah, we can't just throw a new goal idea into the process so late20:17
ttx#info A bit late to insert a new goal into the Ocata list (since Ocata just started)20:18
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dhellmannI do think this one is a strong contender for pike, though. with a little more detail added it'll be quite doable in that time-frame.20:18
mugsiebut ++ for Pike20:18
dimsdhellmann ++20:18
sdagueso... another pike goal to think about for the list. All API services running under a non-eventlet webserver.20:18
ttx#info let's make sure we discuss this in Barcelona in time for it to be a potential Pike goal20:18
amritha request, could we discuss this on the ML as we agreed in https://governance.openstack.org/goals/index.html#identifying-goals20:18
annegentleamrith yeah20:19
dimsamrith : reasonable to do that. +120:19
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dhellmannsdague : that's listed on https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ocata-tc-goals (which we should probably move somewhere with a less cycle-specific name)20:19
mugsieamrith: +120:19
ttxamrith: yes, that's part of the "too late" thing20:19
flaper87amrith: I think this will be discussed in the ML anyway20:19
flaper87what ttx said20:19
ttxOK, I propose we move on20:19
* flaper87 chose his words poorly20:19
dougwigsdague: isn't eventlet py3 compatible now? i thought that was the only objection.20:19
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amriththx flaper87 ttx.20:19
sdaguedougwig: no, it's not the only objection20:19
ttxI think we have a way forward, and I'll summarize it on the review20:20
flaper87ttx: thx20:20
ttx#topic Update tc-approved-release application policy20:20
*** openstack changes topic to "Update tc-approved-release application policy (Meeting topic: tc)"20:20
sdaguefor the API services being under a real webserver actually means much better scale up / down in resource usage instead of a fixed worker pool20:20
* flaper87 notices that without his glasses ttx and thx just look the same20:20
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/36824020:20
mugsie#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/368240/20:20
ttxThis change proposes to let anyone propose additions to the tc-approved-release tag20:20
ttxAs a reminder, this tag is used to describe what should be considered "the TC-approved release" (a concept used in the Foundation bylaws)20:21
ttxOur current policy around this tag is that (since all projects would be interested in having that badge) we would wait for /some/ interest from the defcore committee before evaluating projects20:21
ttxPersonally I see no reason to change that policy20:21
ttxThat said, this review raised interesting side-discussions.20:21
ttxIn particular mugsie raised that tc-approved-release is used outside of the Foundation bylaws context, which I think is generally a bad idea20:21
dhellmannyes, we were careful to set this up to avoid lots of unnecessary discussion over this tag20:21
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ttx(as it overloads the tag meaning and makes it desirable outside of Defcore context)20:22
mugsieYeah, so bazsed on the discussion on the patch, I think I would be better capturing the discussion in the policy20:22
ttxIn the QA case he raised (in-tree tempest tests), it may be some sort of full circle though, as tempest is required to maintain DefCore-related tests...20:22
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ttxmugsie: would you like to propose a new change (or a new patchset) that would bring those clarifications ?20:22
mugsieyeah, if there is agreement that there is confucsion, I will propose it20:23
ttxI felt like the tag was sufficiently self-explaining, but it's easy to "improve"20:23
ttxmugsie: where is the confusion, exactly ?20:23
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ttxaround the usage of teh tag ?20:24
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annegentleyes, in the spirit of writing things down, what else do we need to write down?20:24
mugsiewell, the confusion (for me anyway) is that previous comments would indicate that it was the TC who could add/remove projects20:24
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ttxIt is the TC which approves additions20:24
ttx(as a way to handle the communication with Defcore folks)20:24
mugsieyup, approve20:25
dhellmannsomeone on the tc might even technically submit the patch to add something, based on discussion with the defcore folks20:25
mugsienot propose20:25
dhellmannthe point is that we don't want PTLs or project contributors to propose those sorts of patches20:25
mugsiedhellmann: well, is that not in breach of the policy?20:25
ttxThere is basically no point in proposing something that defcore is not interested to add20:25
sdaguethe previous working theory is that defcore / board knew what the market for trademark looked like20:25
sdagueso they would be the best ones to initiate "we want this thing in the trademark" because either their users, or their vendors, wanted products with that feature stamped openstack20:26
fungior at least should be the ones responsible for figuring it out if not20:26
dimsfungi : sdague : right20:26
ttxsdague: also they add projects far less often than we do :)20:26
annegentlethat's my understanding as well ^^20:27
dhellmannlike I said, the point is not that a patch is invalid because the wrong person submitted it. the point is to avoid extra work from folks who want the tag but don't understand the process.20:27
mugsiefor me, the enitire process was murky. asking in def-core I was told one thing (which was later clarified, but the inital reading looked like defcore was waiting for the TC to update), and then the policy said another20:27
dhellmannif we have to make a hard rule that only defcore committee members can submit the patch, that's not ideal but I could live with it20:27
mugsiedhellmann: is that not what it says right now?20:28
ttxOK, so I think we can reject this change as it stands, and we'll consider other clarifications in the wording in the future if they are submitted20:28
dhellmannmugsie : yes, I think you're the first project to go through this process so I'm not surprised it's not fully understood20:28
dhellmannmugsie : I don't think we anticipated anyone saying the TC could not modify its own git repo.20:28
sdaguettx: I can give a shot at updating the document with the current understanding20:28
sdagueI'll submit a patch tomorrow20:28
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dhellmannobviously removing something from the list takes communication with defcore, too20:28
dhellmannttx: ++20:29
ttxsdague: you mean iterate on the same change ?20:29
sdaguettx: no, I'll do a new change20:29
ttxore some new change ?20:29
ttxok, so we can reject the current one20:29
annegentlesdague thanks for doing that20:29
ttxanyone disagreeing on rejection of 368240 ?20:29
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ttx#agreed https://review.openstack.org/#/c/368240/1 should be rejected, expecting another clarification to be proposed in the near future20:30
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ttxI'll process it after I slept20:31
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ttx#topic Mention where the metric rules are defined/used20:31
*** openstack changes topic to "Mention where the metric rules are defined/used (Meeting topic: tc)"20:31
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/34222520:31
ttxflaper87: want to lead this one ?20:31
flaper87so, This patch should update these tags with what the teamstats script does20:31
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flaper87we've invested quite some time arguing on what should be the next step as new things about the behavior of the script were found20:32
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flaper87There are proposals to update the current wording, land this patch and then do further improvements to the script20:32
flaper87and there's another proposal to just revert the whole thing20:32
ttxand a bunch of people who don't care enough either way to weigh in20:33
ttx(including me)20:33
flaper87I personally think we should go with the first one as it should reflect the current status while we work on improving the script forward20:33
flaper87ttx: right20:33
dhellmannwe could also trim it down to just "This tag is applied based on the `tools/teamstats.py` script."20:33
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flaper87dhellmann: or that too, which I think was the first version of this patch20:33
dhellmanntrying to explain what the script does in english is where we keep getting tripped up, because of vague words like "patch"20:33
ttxdhellmann: maybe we should add that we review the changes proposed by the script to check if they are reflecting reality20:33
dhellmannwhich is why I didn't want us to try to do that in english in the first place20:33
dhellmannttx: sure20:33
dtroyer_zzwhich is why flaper87's suggestion is preferable to me20:34
johnthetubaguyyeah, I quite like just referring to the script, and noting the human element20:34
ttxjohnthetubaguy: ++20:34
dhellmannflaper87 : do you want to do that now?20:34
flaper87dhellmann: doing it as we speak20:34
flaper87if there are no objections, we can just move on and revisit this on Open discussion20:35
ttx#topic Write down OpenStack principles20:35
*** openstack changes topic to "Write down OpenStack principles (Meeting topic: tc)"20:35
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/35726020:35
ttxSo... The new draft seems to have addressed most of the concerns around the "One OpenStack" principle20:35
ttxThe only principle that seems potentially controversial at this stage (beyond just choice of words) is the "OpenStack First, Project Team Second, Company Third" one20:35
ttxeglynn / jaypipes seem to prefer to say that it's OK to represent company opinion, as long as you disclose it (using the 'hats' analogy)20:36
ttxI don't see that as being orthogonal to what's in there though. This principle just says that as leaders you're supposed to put the interests of OpenStack first.20:36
ttxDoesn't mean you can't represent/voice the interests of the company as well20:36
ttxSo you should definitely explain why your company would prefer it differently, but in your vote, you're supposed to make the choice that is beneficial to OpenStack in case of conflicts of interests20:36
edleafeYeah, it's not "company never"20:36
ttxI'll try to rewrite the last sentence so that it's clearer20:36
ttxHopefully that will solve it20:37
ttxAs TC members, is there anything in the current draft that you think does not accurately represent our principles ?20:37
ttxOr something I should definitely try to catch on my next revision ?20:37
ttxOr something that would prevent you from +1ing it ?20:37
eglynnFWIW I think the hats analogy better captures the more nuanced balancing of interests that goes on in reality (IIUC)20:37
eglynn(as opposed to a strict 1,2,3 ordering)20:37
annegentlettx I had comments that I'd like in a new revision around the software aspect vs. API implementation20:37
johnthetubaguyI honestly think its more about wording to stop miss read of the intent, it feels like we are all trying to point towards the same thing20:37
ttxeglynn: it's not as widespread as you think outside of Red Hat :)20:37
ttxjohnthetubaguy: yeah20:38
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ttxjohnthetubaguy: precision which we can address in subsequent patchsets, too20:38
johnthetubaguyttx: thats a very good point20:38
eglynnttx: hmmm, I'll take that in jest20:38
annegentlettx one reason for -1 for API implementation would be that we can't really do anything about projects outside of OpenStack that implement an API, is that not a concern? It's possible it's not a concern because they don't call it OpenStack?20:38
annegentle(heh lots of use of it_20:39
anteayaannegentle: you are your own grammar police20:39
johnthetubaguyI certainly wore many "hats" at Citrix in a closed sourced world, maybe its UK + Ireland thing, we must love hats or something20:39
annegentlewhat I mean is, do we stop Ceph implementing Object Storage API or do we not care?20:39
annegentleand even can we stop anyone? :)20:39
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mugsiejohnthetubaguy: I think it might be ...20:39
annegentleanteaya some days I just can't English20:39
eglynnjohnthetubaguy: because all that rain :)20:40
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dhellmannannegentle : we don't care what they do as long as they don't say it's OpenStack20:40
dtroyer_zzannegentle: ok, that's what I was wondering … is it that we don't want 3rd party implementations?  or that you can't call yourself OpenStack if you use one?20:40
johnthetubaguyeglynn: heh20:40
flaper87dhellmann: ++20:40
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annegentledhellmann ok, that's fair enough then, maybe we should clearly state that as a principle "we don't care"20:40
dtroyer_zzor that it only matters if it's a defcore-tested api?20:40
dhellmannannegentle, dtroyer_zz: right, the point of this principle is to reiterate our defcore response about designated sections20:40
annegentledtroyer_zz good question, I'm not sure myself.20:40
ttxannegentle: we don't care and can't do anything about what's done outside of openstack20:40
annegentlettx I put some suggested wording rather than just saying "no" at least :)20:41
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anteayanoone can stop third party implimentations20:41
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annegentlettx I'd like that in before giving a +220:41
dimstrademarks kick in for that right?20:41
johnthetubaguyI like it because we say we ship software and not APIs, and its a nice expression of that20:41
dhellmannannegentle : I just replied to you on the review20:41
johnthetubaguys/APIs/API specs/20:41
dtroyer_zzannegentle: right, wanting to make sure I read the right questions :)20:41
ttxok, so it feels like as far as TC members go, you could LIVE BY the current set, I just need to make a few more wording tweaks20:41
annegentlejohnthetubaguy yeah me too20:41
sdagueI do feel like there is something missing here about do-acracy or something.20:41
dhellmannjohnthetubaguy : right, that was one of the fundamental arguments when openstack started, was whether we deliver code or specs.20:41
johnthetubaguysdague:oooo... you are right20:41
sdaguebecause there isn't a lot said here about the fact that people doing the work are the ones that should be making the decisions20:42
ttxsdague: easy to propose as a subsequent patch too20:42
johnthetubaguydhellmann: +120:42
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annegentlesdague so, such as "code or it doesn't count" Yeah I could see that is relevant20:42
ttxsdague: though I could slip something about in in the representative democracy principle too20:42
johnthetubaguysdague: your spot on though, thats totally missing right now20:43
ttxsdague: though I think it warrants its own thing20:43
sdaguettx: you could, but I know a concern that was widely raised when I first joined was the invasion of astronaut architects20:43
dtroyer_zzLet's nail down what is there and tack that on?  else we'll keep iterating on the rest of this too20:43
jrollI'd say follow up patches, or we just keep adding to this patch every time we think of something20:43
dhellmannttx, sdague : yeah, that's worth it's own point20:43
annegentlesdague heh I was remembering the same session I think20:43
dhellmanndtroyer_zz : ++20:43
ttxdtroyer_zz: yeah, definitely not looking forward a whole new one20:43
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flaper87ttx: sdague I'd probably leave it for a follow-up patch20:43
sdagueand that it was really important the voices that had weight were the ones doing work20:43
dims+1 to follow up patches jroll20:43
flaper87this one has enough content, in my opinion20:43
dimssdague : totally20:44
flaper87I do think it's worth mentioning it20:44
johnthetubaguyjroll: yeah, I think we should do that, I like flaper87's proposed add (well its direction)20:44
flaper87johnthetubaguy: :)20:44
ttxOK, so I'll do a new revision to catch the latest wording suggestions. Then we'll try to approve it at next week meeting20:44
annegentlettx sounds good20:44
ttxand then we can start a subsequent patch fair20:44
flaper87ttx: wfm20:44
dimssounds like a plan ttx20:44
ttxwe won't get it perfect the first time around. We never do20:44
johnthetubaguyyeah, I think we need to get into iterate mode on this soon-ish20:44
flaper87(shameless plug if ppl want to review the metrics patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/342225/)20:44
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ttxOK, let's move to open discussion, quite a bit to discuss there too20:45
ttx#topic Open discussion20:45
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)"20:45
flaper87#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/342225/ Metrics patch20:45
* flaper87 stfu20:45
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ttxno no I was about to say that :)20:45
dtroyer_zzflaper87: looks good, I expect 'verify it matches reality' to receive some interpretation though20:45
flaper87dtroyer_zz: English, I'll eventually stop trying and go with the flow :P20:46
ttxGiven the opposition on this patch, I don't feel comfortable approving it right away though20:46
ttxunless we can get the -1ers to approve it20:46
dhellmannthat seems reasonable20:46
flaper87it's fine, no need to rush it20:47
russellbif people -1 this, we should all just pack up and go home20:47
ttxok, so, next open discussion topic20:47
ttxWe have a load of missing PTLs: Astara, OpenStackSalt, OpenStack UX, Security20:47
amrithttx, did anyone on tc even -1 it?20:47
amrithdon't think so20:47
ttxrussellb: inorite20:47
flaper87I also prefer waiting for -1ers to read this version20:47
dougwigrussellb: you did not just throw down that gauntlet.20:47
flaper87russellb: :P20:47
ttxI received a private email from Piet (UX) saying he waited until the last minute and experienced some issues posting his candidacy20:47
anteayattx technical issues?20:48
ttxso the election repo UX failed the test20:48
dhellmannhas he posted it since then?20:48
ttxNo news from the others though, which points to some significant level of disconnect with the community20:48
piet_Yeah - we ran into an issue, but definitely want to continue as PTL20:48
annegentleso is it only Astara and OpenStackSalt we need to find potential people for?20:48
RockygThere was an ML post by the Astara guy who got it in too late20:48
anteayaI thought adam lawson posted to the mailing list about astara20:48
sdagueor just retire them20:48
ttxusually when we publish the "oops you missed" list, people show up20:48
jrollastara also had a late submission20:48
ttxSo, speaking of Astara20:49
ttxmarkmcclain: around ?20:49
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markmcclainttx: yes20:49
ttxmarkmcclain: could you give us the state there20:49
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anteaya#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-September/103943.html20:49
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markmcclainI've been chatting with a few folks the last few days about Astara20:49
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markmcclainwe think it makes sense to remove the project from governance and let anyone who wants to take reorganize do so after it is outside of governance20:51
sdagueI kind of feel like we should default to removing official status from projects that don't have PTLs show up20:51
ttxif it's a completely different team, then yes, it makes sense20:51
sdagueand handle not doing that as an exception20:51
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Rockygtough to remove security from governance20:51
jrollsdague: I lean that way too20:51
sdagueUX would get an exception this time, but the rest we should just take out of the fold20:51
markmcclainthe main contributors have all scattered to different companies after Akanda wound down and I don't expect any holdovers20:51
ttxsdague: for example, I'm not sure we can't have anyone leading Security since the VMT depends on it20:51
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sdagueRockyg: not really, it's basically just creating a couple of tools20:52
anteayaRockyg: they aren't the vulnerability management team, they are a different team20:52
sdaguettx: in which way?20:52
sdagueI thought the whole point of them being different was they were different deliverables20:52
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ttxanteaya: the VMT is now a subteam of Security20:52
* dhellmann is surprised to learn that security and vmt are not the same team20:52
anteayattx: ah sorry I missed that20:52
dhellmannoh, they are, nevermind20:52
sdaguedhellmann: ish20:52
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fungithe vmt moved from release management to security for better alignment20:53
sdaguehonestly, I would rather make VMT a top level team20:53
fungibut the vmt still operates as a completely autonomous entity20:53
anteayasdague: me too20:53
dhellmannI see20:53
sdagueI feel like their output is measurable, the security team... less so20:53
markmcclainI'm willing to handle proposing the patches to remove Astara from governance and then help handoff to those who might be interested in reorganizing20:53
ttxmarkmcclain: ++20:53
sdaguemarkmcclain: that sounds great, thank you20:53
dtroyer_zzmarkmcclain: thanks20:53
dhellmannmarkmcclain : what time-frame do you have in mind for that?20:54
fungibasically teh release management team wanted to stop being a catch-all, and since the security team had newly formed the vmt agreed to relocate there20:54
dimsmarkmcclain : ++20:54
sdaguefungi: sure, as a point in time it made sense20:54
sdaguebut I think we should just call the VMT an independent entity20:54
ttxSo, we save UX since Piet reached out. We remove Astara to enable a clean hand-off20:54
sdaguewhich is basically is20:54
markmcclainI was thinking of proposing it this week with goal of making official during first meeting of new TC term20:54
ttxLeaves us with Salt and Security20:54
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jrollsdague: yeah, +120:54
markmcclainthat should give time for any community members to chime in20:54
ttxFWIW Salt also missed all of the emails about Design Summit allocation20:54
fungii wouldn't object to the vmt being an officially independent official team, but we only have four members (until recently it was only 3)20:55
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ttxand you know how many reminders I send20:55
sdaguefungi: release isn't any bigger20:55
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anteayathis is the second salt team that disappeared, the first has modules in retirement20:55
fungisdague: fair point20:55
annegentlewe once had the security team own/ review the Security Guide all the security, oh what are they called, reports?20:55
johnthetubaguy+1 for a separate VMT team20:55
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Rockygannegentle, audits?20:55
ttxfungi: they co-publish on security.o.o, too20:55
dhellmannis there someone who would lead the vmt team that wouldn't be willing to lead the security team?20:55
fungittx: correct20:55
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sdaguedhellmann: there was never really much overlap20:56
fungidhellmann: most of the vmt are not heavily involved in the rest of the security team's output20:56
ttxShould we rather have someone from the VMT take over Security PTLship ?20:56
fungiwe're more... allied?20:56
dhellmannfungi : ok20:56
ttxthat doesn't prevent them from doing their side of work20:56
annegentleah, OSSA, OpenStack Security Advisories.20:56
sdaguettx: no, we should just split it off20:56
anteayattx: I think salt should be moved out of governance and left to its own devices20:56
dhellmannttx: it sounds like no20:56
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johnthetubaguy+1 for the split20:56
annegentle Nathaniel Dillon was who worked on the docs side20:56
anteayattx: if someone picks up the work again, so be it20:56
sdagueanteaya: ++20:56
annegentle(and prior PTL?)20:56
thingeemaybe put a call on the mailing list for someone in the vmt to step up20:56
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flaper87thingee: +120:57
dimsthingee +120:57
sdaguehonestly, our focus should be on the folks doing the work, and not spending a lot of time shepharding and safeguarding people that don't show up20:57
ttxSo, all those teams have design summit space20:57
piet_what do you need from me re:20:57
johnthetubaguyI would rather the VMT just became its own thing20:57
fungiannegentle: right, the vmt generates ossa. there are a set of editors on the security team who generate ossn, which are like security advisories but more in the vein of recommendations. probably getting off-topic for a tc meeting but i'm happy to explain in greater detail later20:57
anteayasdague: ++20:57
ttxwould we just prevent those teams from meeting, too ?20:57
johnthetubaguyttx: oh, thats an interesting twist on the problem20:57
sdaguettx: I think it's fair to give up their slots20:57
sdaguethis is kind of fundamental failure to show up20:58
dhellmannttx: the astara team wanted a slot to coordinate the hand-off, iiuc20:58
ttxor maybe reduce their allocation a bit20:58
dougwigdoes the vmt as a separate autonomous team need a ptl?20:58
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dhellmanndougwig : yes, it would20:58
ttxsdague: could be seen as the error of one person making a problem for a whole team20:58
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fungifwiw the security team's efforts are pretty cool, and they're reasonably active. i just don't know what's up with nobody stepping up to be ptl for them20:58
anteayapiet_: stand by, so far just your presence at the meeting and your prior communication with ttx20:58
mugsiettx: reduce slots for them20:58
dougwigdhellmann: i guess i'm challenging the notion that every little cross project team should have a "ptl". do the members of that team need weekly meetings and summit space, e.g.?20:58
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ttxmugsie: yes, that was my idea20:59
ttxReduce slot allocation20:59
sdaguettx: it could be, but again, all the time we spend chasing teams not showing up is time we're not spending on / with projects that are working hard20:59
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dhellmanndougwig : from a governance perspective the important function of the PTL is to be the single-point-of-contact when all else fails.20:59
mugsieif I flew in to BCN, and found no sessions I would be ... annoyed20:59
piet_anteaya What does the TC need from me to make sure I stay UX PTL?20:59
ttxSo Salt would be down to one slot (which is what we try to give to unofficial projects in the pipeline of becoming official20:59
anteayapiet_: I think you have done it, stand by20:59
ttxpiet_: no, we'll make it happen20:59
anteayapiet_: yay, congratulations20:59
piet_ttx Sweet20:59
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fungidougwig: the vmt only has one git repo (at the moment), and is pretty constrained at being around 3-4 members most likely indefinitely. it could probably just be considered a cross-project effort and not need to be an official anything as far as i'm concerned21:00
dougwigfungi: right, if you want a PTL, go nuts. but it seems a heavyweight construct for one size fits all.21:00
fungibut i won't speak for the other three vmt members who don't seem to be in here at the moment21:00
piet_ttx anteaya For the record, we're doing some good stuff these days21:00
ttxOK, so I'll start a thread on retiring teams without PTLs (and reducing their summit allocation) and see how it falls21:00
dhellmannfungi : we could designate it a working group if you'd rather. I don't know if it has any contributors who wouldn't otherwise get to vote in the tc elections.21:00
ttxand our time of off21:00
anteayapiet_: awesome!21:00
ttxis off21:00
flaper87bye everyone21:01
jrollthanks ttx21:01
fungidhellmann: i'm pretty sure we're all already atc on a consistent basis, so you're probably right21:01
ttx#action ttx to start a thread on retiring teams without PTLs (and reducing their summit allocation) and see how it falls21:01
dhellmannfungi : yeah, that's what I expected21:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Sep 20 21:01:28 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-09-20-20.01.html21:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-09-20-20.01.txt21:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-09-20-20.01.log.html21:01
johnthetubaguyyeah, a working group could be a better solution there21:01
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oneswig.... and ... relax21:02
oneswig#startmeeting scientific_wg21:02
ttxand sleep you mean21:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Sep 20 21:02:23 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is oneswig. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)"21:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'scientific_wg'21:02
oneswig#chair b1airo21:02
openstackCurrent chairs: b1airo oneswig21:02
ttxoneswig: sorry we were a bit late.21:02
b1aironp ttx !21:02
oneswigttx: no problem, you guys have to type fast!21:02
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trandleshi folks21:03
oneswigGood afternoon, good evening, and good morning21:03
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oneswig#link Meeting agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Scientific_working_group#IRC_Meeting_September_20th_201621:03
b1airohi priteau , hi martial , hi trandles - good turn out!21:03
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oneswigb1airo: your turn to drive the bus?21:04
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b1airo#topic Barcelona21:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Barcelona (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)"21:05
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oneswigWe have confirmation - two rooms for BoF session, next to each other.  30 people capacity in each so not massive21:06
oneswigHi rbudden21:06
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martialstill pretty good21:06
b1airohi rbudden21:06
martialI see on the agenda that poster are listed, so is this related ?21:06
b1airoyeah, though i don't think it is a space that can be merged, so two separate groups21:07
oneswigI think it'll work.  The idea was to have talks in one and mixing (and possibly posters) in the other21:07
priteauoneswig: How long do we have the rooms for?21:07
oneswig40 minutes21:07
priteauWe'll have to be efficinet21:07
oneswigwhen are we ever not :-)21:08
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martialI feel like efficiency is what we are always trying to extract from our work :)21:08
anteayaI really would discourage posters, you will take a significant portion of your 40 minutres trying to organize them21:08
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oneswigHi anteaya21:08
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martialanteaya: I understand your concern21:08
anteayaI know your audience likes them, but I don't think they would be practical at summit21:08
anteayahey oneswig21:08
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b1airohmm, it's a good point21:09
anteayachairs and a projector are our usual fare21:09
oneswigIt might depend on whether the rooms are used for something else before our slot21:09
anteayaoneswig: they will be21:09
jmlowe+1 on that, I always like to review posters in a leisurely fashion21:09
martialanteaya, b1airo: it would have been good to be able to do posters separate from the main meeting21:09
b1airooneswig, we are not yet wedded to two concurrent rooms versus two back-to-back slots (1.5 hours) i thought?21:09
anteayaif they weren't you would have had the room21:09
anteayamartial: sure but summit really isn't a scientific poster kind of venue21:09
oneswigmartial: there's a main meeting which is separate from the bof session21:09
martialotherwise we have to skip them I would agree21:10
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oneswigmartial I am curious, do you have a specific poster in mind?  It's possible to put it onto a flip chart and then make it into a lightning talk?21:11
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b1airoif there is enough interest i'm sure we could organise some space around the common areas to put a poster display (assuming the org. committee folks have the bandwidth to handle it)21:11
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b1airothen it could stay there the whole week21:11
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martialoneswig: I was more thinking that given that it is a scientific working group, our community is used to this type of work, and it might have been useful for people to present their work21:12
priteaub1airo: I think that would work better21:12
oneswigmartial: for sure, it's a common thing to browse in a coffee break21:12
oneswigI agree21:12
martialoneswig: that said, I would understand if it was not possible to discuss it during the summit21:12
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b1airo#action b1airo to email list to gauge interest in posters21:13
martialb1airo: thanks21:13
oneswigok, I suggest we ask if we can install them - this may be a non starter anyway.  The time to setup is only a distraction for the person doing the setup21:13
b1airothink we need to know we'd at least have a committed handful before following up more?21:14
oneswigb1airo: agreed, one's a bit lonely21:14
martialoneswig, b1airo: agree :)21:14
b1airooneswig, back to my earlier question on the slots...21:14
b1airoconcurrent or back-to-back still seems to be open21:14
martialb1airo: back-to-back seems to make more sense21:15
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oneswigActually I think concurrent for the Bof?  We can fit in more people in two rooms21:15
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b1airoso i think concurrent is fine if we are splitting off to organise action on specific areas, but if we are more just networking etc then back to back is better21:16
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rbuddenb1airo: +121:16
rbuddenif we are trying to engage two major topics, then splitting seems logical, otherwise if it’s just networking i think more time would appeal (at least to me)21:17
b1airooneswig, that's true but the two rooms can't communicate21:17
oneswigConcurrent is how the request is currently - one for lightning talks and the neighbour room for other discussion.21:17
b1airo(except via etherpad o_0)21:17
oneswigIt's not clear if they join or are just next to one another...21:17
b1airoah there's a follow up from Jimmy just a few hours ago21:18
b1airo"I think there was some confusion regarding "adjoining" vs. "next to". We do have 2 rooms next to each other, but they're not connected. So one, want to make sure that will work, otherwise we'll have to go to the informal room."21:18
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b1airo"Second, is your preference to have 2 rooms together at the same time (for 40 minutes), or to have the space for 1.5 hours, back to back? Basically, you have the option of having 2 40 min. Working Group sessions and 2 40 min. BoF sessions."21:18
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anteayaare you expecting more than 30 people to attend your sessions?21:19
b1airoanteaya, based on austin, yes21:19
oneswiganteaya: quite likely21:19
anteayaif yes, then I suggest concurrent, if no then I suggest consecutive21:19
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oneswigThat's my assumption.  Perhaps we can vote on it?21:20
anteayaotherwise you are going to have to deal with people who can't get in teh room21:20
b1airoseems like 2x rooms concurrently for 2x slots (1.5 hours) is the best option21:20
b1airothen we can be a bit flexible with how things turn out21:20
oneswigb1airo: sounds good to me21:21
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oneswigI'll respond to Jimmy21:22
b1airoone thing that i've maybe missed so far is whether this time needs to include an "official" working group report?21:22
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anteayato whom would you report?21:22
b1airoour members / anyone interested21:23
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oneswigIt's a good question, I'm not sure what kind of governance obligations we have to meet as a working group.  Hmmm.21:23
anteayaan no, noone is going to require any output from you in exchange for a time slot21:23
anteayayou don't have any obligations21:23
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anteayabesides making good on any promises you make to others21:24
oneswiganteaya: that's my favourite response :-)21:24
anteayafolks will consume anything you produce21:24
anteayabut you aren't obliged in any way21:24
anteayaoneswig: :)21:24
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b1airoyeah i'm not thinking there was an obligation there, just wanting to make sure there weren't separate slots hiding21:24
oneswigSo we should at least figure out a way to sit down and talk over how we are doing during the WG meeting slot21:25
anteayaoh okay, perhaps I mis-understood the original point21:25
oneswigIn a way that works for the size of group21:25
b1airooneswig, i'm thinking we can draft some sort of current state thing to put in an etherpad before the sessions (e.g. when we meet on the weekend)21:26
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oneswigGood plan.21:26
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b1airoif anyone wants to talk about it more they can in the BoF21:26
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b1airothat brings me to your earlier email...21:26
b1airo#topic US based chair21:27
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oneswigI had been thinking we ought to have a third co-chair from the Americas21:27
b1airoif only so we have someone else who feels obliged to do things :-D21:27
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oneswighelps to create some regional ties, and keep the WG aware of events in North America (or South)21:28
martialoneswig: can I get a job description ?21:28
rbuddenmartial: +121:28
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oneswigI'm not sure there is one to hand...21:28
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anteayathere isn't21:29
trandlesoneswig: that implies you and b1airo have been making this up as you go along ;)21:29
anteayamostly be available, be intersted and communicate21:29
oneswigMostly, I try to keep in the back of my mind what's going on and whether it would be interesting to involve the WG on it21:29
anteayathe rest you learn as you go along21:29
jmlowejust out of curiosity, how many other people in the meeting are north americans?21:29
oneswigtrandles: unthinkable!21:29
rbuddenjmlowe: me obviously ;)21:30
trandlesjmlowe: me21:30
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jmloweN=3 and counting21:30
b1airoactually flanders posted something on user-committee recently that is a pretty good description21:30
oneswigLots more than the 0900 slot, for some reason...21:30
anteayaoneswig: funny that21:30
martialmartial: I am next to DC21:31
oneswig4 out of 7 present?21:32
priteauI am kind of half and half ;-)21:32
oneswig4.5 and rising...21:32
julian1Resident of North American here. (Transplanted from the Antipodes)21:32
jmloweN=6ish, satisfies my curiosity21:33
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martialjulian1: from France :)21:33
oneswigI think there's grounds for discussion and nomination at the WG session21:34
b1airoah, finally found it!21:34
b1airo#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/user-committee/2016-August/001205.html21:34
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oneswigAh yes that's a good description21:35
oneswigAlthough I'm feeling bad about how many of these I actually do...21:35
b1airothat whole conversation is interesting and important, something to be followed up in barcelona21:35
b1airoi think the scientific-wg is interesting in this regard because we are not organised around any particular project, it's more of a common community21:36
anteayathat is a good list21:36
anteayaplease if you want to talk on irc just the #openstack-dev channel21:37
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anteayarather than create a new channel21:37
b1airoto that end i think there is potential to engage more broadly, e.g., to get attention/input on blueprints etc21:37
anteayait encourages visability on what you are doing21:37
oneswigb1airo: we should make new-cycle resolutions to be more involved with those activities21:38
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b1airo#action oneswig to solicit interest in America's based co-chair21:38
martialb1airo: I am interested in discussing the possibility if that is welcome21:39
b1airoi did woefully in that regard this cycle because i never had time to properly peruse everything (which continues to be harder and harder with big tent), so really need a way to highlight stuff21:39
b1airomartial, great thanks! let's take it to the list then to see if there was any other interest to include21:40
oneswigmartial: I think it makes sense to have some regional organisation given it's so global21:40
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b1airo#topic working group dinner & drinks in barcelona21:40
*** openstack changes topic to "working group dinner & drinks in barcelona (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)"21:40
oneswigOne item missing from Flanders' list is having a social gathering...21:41
b1airooneswig, read my mind21:41
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b1airooneswig, has put together a nice eventbrite and we've got at least one sponsor21:41
anteayawell I think it was not included on purpose since in the past some folks believe them to be required and then it becomes a status thing21:41
anteayabut folks are welcome to have them, and yours looks well organized21:42
anteayawell done21:42
oneswig#link Anyone who has not got a ticket yet go here https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/openstack-scientific-working-group-barcelona-social-tickets-2756715610621:42
oneswiganteaya: thanks, but it remains to be seen if it is well organised21:42
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oneswig8 tickets left at current levels of subsidy...21:43
anteayaoneswig: well you are off to a good start21:43
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trandleswish I could attend but my wife is arriving on the 27th...21:43
jmloweAny chance somebody fluent in Spanish will be attending, I'm a bit ashamed to say I don't really speak any?21:43
anteayaI'm giving you the benefit of the doubt21:44
oneswigtrandles: tickets for 2?  What better dinner date than this?21:44
rbuddenjmlowe: +121:44
oneswigWe have at least one spanish national attending21:44
martial7 left :)21:44
b1airooneswig, lol - i reckon my wife could answer that question pretty comprehensively21:44
anteayajmlowe: I don't speak any of the languages of any of the non english speaking summit locations and I've never had a problem21:44
fungii'm led to understand the locals in barcelona speak catalan, which is almost nothing like spanish (though they are generally also fluent in spanish)21:45
anteayaI usually learn please thank you and excuse me and I've done okay so far21:45
trandlesoneswig: maybe, thx for that, depends on if her mum and dad arrive on the 27th or 28th...they live in Geneve21:45
oneswigfor the record, I speak Spanish with a perfect English accent :-)21:45
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anteayaoneswig: ha ha ha21:45
b1airo#topic Supercomputing'1621:46
*** openstack changes topic to "Supercomputing'16 (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)"21:46
b1airofirstly, i thought we should try to get a list of working group folks who are attending SC21:46
oneswigb1airo: do you have a link to the SC schedule?21:47
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trandlesmy SC travel was approved21:47
b1airoin its full glory: http://sc16.supercomputing.org/full-program/21:47
oneswigI expect to be there (first timer...)21:47
martialoneswig, b1airo: unclear if I will be coming to SC16 in the end, will know on Oct 5th21:47
priteauI am not going, but I think Kate will be there.21:48
jmloweI'm meeting with our communications office about the booth talks on Friday morning, I should have updates to send to the list shortly thereafter21:48
b1airothanks jmlowe21:49
trandlesI'll only be there half of the 14th and all day on the 15th.  I need to get back here for something the rest of the week.21:49
b1airopriteau, yes i hope Kate will be there, she is listed on the panel!21:49
rbuddeni’ll be there for the week21:49
jmloweM-F for myself21:49
rbuddenstill available if there is anything that I can help with at our booth21:49
rbuddenpapers, talks, etc.21:49
rbuddenjmlowe may have it all covered already though ;)21:50
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b1airohas anyone found anything on the schedule that looks relevant to the community, i.e., that we might want to point folks to?21:50
b1airoobviously there is http://sc16.supercomputing.org/?post_type=page&p=3273&id=bof180&sess=sess36121:51
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b1airoand http://sc16.supercomputing.org/?post_type=page&p=3273&id=pan127&sess=sess18421:51
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b1airoKate also has a BoF: Experimental Infrastructure and Methodology for HPC Cloud Research (http://sc16.supercomputing.org/?post_type=page&p=3273&id=bof200&sess=sess368)21:51
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oneswigDoes that bird have more feathers than Chameleon?21:52
b1airoand there are a few student research papers that might be interesting21:52
b1airooh and another BoF! "HPC Virtualization and Cloud in the OpenHPC Context" http://sc16.supercomputing.org/?post_type=page&p=3273&id=bof190&sess=sess36421:53
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b1airoplus a panel "HPC File Systems, Challenges, and Use Cases" (http://sc16.supercomputing.org/presentation/?id=pan120&sess=sess185) with Sage Weil (Ceph) amongst others21:55
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oneswigSomething interesting on using QoS in storage networks: http://sc16.supercomputing.org/presentation/?id=post248&sess=sess31821:56
oneswigthats a poster, that is21:56
b1airoa few papers on scheduling that might be relevant too21:56
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b1airoshould be a fun & busy conference for us by the look of it21:57
b1airo#topic AOB21:57
*** openstack changes topic to "AOB (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)"21:57
oneswigI thought I'd share this experience21:58
oneswigI went to OpenStack Day UK and met priteau21:58
priteauI went to OpenStack Day UK and met oneswig21:58
anteayasounds like openstack day uk was the place to be21:58
oneswigThere were 125 attendees - all male - incredible (and shocking!)21:59
priteauHe gave an excellent talk!21:59
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martialsounds like it was fun I agree :)21:59
oneswigpriteau: ha, thanks!  Might put it in for the lightning talk in Barcelona21:59
b1airoreally oneswig, that's a bit sad, but well done on the talk21:59
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oneswigthanks b1airo.  I'd not seen this at a conference before22:00
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b1aironormally 95% though :-/22:00
oneswigIs there anything the WG might do in support of Women of OpenStack I wonder22:01
oneswignot sure what22:01
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anteayaor just women working in openstack22:01
fungisorry to interject on the earlier "posters" topic (looks like you don't have time today for an open discussion period), but i got word back from the summit organizers and they said if you have a need for some central/common area where you can display research then contact summit@openstack.org with the details. i expect it's unlikely they can work something out this late in the timeline given they22:01
fungihave to get venue approval for any displays (this doesn't work the way academic conferences do), but it's worth a shot i guess22:01
anteayanot all women are represented by Women of OpenStack22:01
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oneswigfungi: wow, thanks for that!22:02
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anteayawell I do have some suggestions, if you are going to be attending an event reach out to your female colleges and ask if they also will be attending22:02
b1airothanks fungi !22:02
oneswigWe are over time alas22:02
martialfungi: thanks, very cool22:02
b1airoanteaya, +122:02
anteayaencourage them to submit speaking proposals, offer to review them for them by way of encouragement22:02
trandlessaid something to the missus about dinner and drinks on the 27th...my wife must know b1airo's wife...22:03
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b1airo(my way of encouragement this time around was to write the proposal and then put my colleagues name on it :-D )22:03
anteayato the extent you can remember, try to use the terms folks people or group rather than guys when referring to a group, even if the group is all men22:03
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"22:03
openstackMeeting ended Tue Sep 20 22:03:42 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)22:03
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-09-20-21.02.html22:03
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-09-20-21.02.txt22:03
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-09-20-21.02.log.html22:03
anteayab1airo: yay, thank you22:03
anteayaoneswig: I have more thoughts anytime you want to hear them22:04
b1airowhoops, let that spill over a bit22:04
anteayaoneswig: thanks for caring enough to raise the topic22:04
oneswigThanks anteaya, always good to hear them22:04
anteayaoneswig: thanks for asking22:04
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b1airoone way is to support groups and sessions on gender diversity22:04
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anteayayes, personally I find them not to be effective22:05
b1airoe.g. at both the summit and SC there are relevant items on the programme - go to them22:05
anteayabut others may find them useful22:05
priteauoneswig: I sat in front of a women during one of the talk so I am sure there was at least one!22:05
oneswigpriteau: then I stand corrected :-)22:05
priteaubut still, sad to see such a low ratio22:05
anteayai find those that go are usually not the ones that need the most support22:05
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anteayabut if folks find them useful then wonderful22:06
oneswigSaw a good article once, "The loneliness of the female engineer", was very instructive at the time22:06
b1airomust run - work to get to etc. have a great day, afternoon, evening, sleep, etc!22:06
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oneswigUntil next time22:06
rbuddencatch ya’ll later22:06
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anteayab1airo: oneswig thanks for another great meeting22:06
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oneswigThanks as always anteaya22:07
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priteaubye everyone22:08
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martialbye everyone, until next time22:08
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