Tuesday, 2016-11-01

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mkrai#startmeeting zun03:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Nov  1 03:00:01 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is mkrai. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.03:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.03:00
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mkrai#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun#Agenda_for_2016-11-01_0300_UTC Today's agenda03:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'zun'03:00
mkrai #topic Roll Call03:00
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mkraiThanks for joining Namrata03:00
mkraiLet's wait for few more meeting for attendees to join03:01
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NamrataThanks mkrai03:01
mkraiWenzhi: hi03:01
mkraicloud_player: Hi03:01
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mkrai #topic Announcements03:02
mkraiHongbin is on vacation at Nov 1.03:02
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mkraiZun presentation at Barcelona summit is available.03:02
mkrai#link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Go8_G3iLyl403:02
mkraiFolks do watch our project presentation :)03:03
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mkraiAny announcement from team?03:03
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mkrai#topic Review Action Items03:04
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mkrai#topic Support interactive mode03:04
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mkrai#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/support-interactive-mode The BP03:05
mkraiI guess aditi is not here03:05
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mkraiAnyone willing to work on this?03:05
mkraiOk let's advance03:06
mkrai#topic Container image store (mkrai)03:06
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mkrai#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/glance-integration The BP03:06
NamrataI will have a look at the Bp03:06
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mkraiThanks Namrata. Feel free to assign it to yourself03:07
Namrataokay great03:07
mkrai#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/383678/ Madhuri's patch03:07
mkrai#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/380298/ Shubham's patch03:07
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mkraiOk so we have finished implementing the base patches03:08
mkraiThe one by shubham for image API endpoint is merged03:08
mkraiMy patch is pending for review.03:08
Wenzhiwill help to review03:09
mkraiThanks Wenzhi03:09
Wenzhinp :)03:09
Namratawill also help in reviweing03:09
mkraiThanks Namrata03:09
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mkraiFew follow up patches more to finish this off03:09
mkraiAny questions on this bp?03:10
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mkrai#topic Container sandbox (hongbin)03:10
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mkrai#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/neutron-integration The BP03:11
mkrai#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/380646/ The patch03:11
mkraiThe patch has got some good reviews I guess03:11
mkraiSo let's wait for Hongbin to return and submit a revision03:11
mkraiAny questions on this bp?03:12
mkrai #topic Open Discussion03:12
mkraiAnyone have any topic to discuss?03:13
Wenzhido we have any project roadmap for O release?03:13
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mkraiNot sure about this. When is the release date?03:14
Wenzhimaybe in April?03:14
cloud_playeris there any bp I can take? :)03:14
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mkraiWenzhi: If so, we can implement few more important features too03:15
Wenzhimkrai: yes03:15
mkraicloud_player: you can take a look at the list of blueprints03:15
mkraicloud_player: #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun03:16
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mkraicloud_player: Let me know if you're interested on working on any of these03:16
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mkraiWenzhi: Let's discuss with Hongbin and list out some important features to our timeline03:17
mkraiThat will be helpful I gues03:17
mkraiI will record an action for it03:17
mkrai#action Discuss with hongbin on features list for release o03:18
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mkraiAnything else? If no, I will end meeting early.03:19
cloud_playeris there any bp available for me to own?03:20
NamrataNot from my side03:20
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mkraicloud_player: There are few bps which doesn't have any assignee03:21
mkraiYou can take them03:21
Wenzhicloud_player: you can check the bp list and tell mkrai or me if you're planning to work on any03:21
cloud_playerI saw the bp list, but don't know which are planned in this release03:22
mkraicloud_player: You can ping me the link, I will try to help with it03:22
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mkraiDo you any specific bp to work on?03:22
cloud_playeryou know, the bps with no Assignee are not03:22
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Wenzhiwe'll list out some important features for O release later03:24
mkraicloud_player: If you see any bp that has been assigned to someone but not been worked so far. Share the link with me, I will assign it to you03:24
mkraiYes that will also help03:24
cloud_playermkrai, that's a good idea03:24
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mkraiThanks for your interest cloud_player03:24
cloud_playerI will find any bp with no action for long time though is assigned to somebody03:25
mkraisure cloud_player03:25
Wenzhicloud_player: you can also regiester new ones03:25
mkraiThanks for joining everyone03:27
mkraiHave a good day ahead!03:27
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openstackMeeting ended Tue Nov  1 03:27:20 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)03:27
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-11-01-03.00.html03:27
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-11-01-03.00.txt03:27
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-11-01-03.00.log.html03:27
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eranrom#startmeeting storlets08:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Nov  1 08:00:00 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is eranrom. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.08:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.08:00
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'storlets'08:00
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eranromtakashi: Hi. Shell we start?08:00
takashikota_: around?08:01
eranromtakashi: Do you know if he planned on joining?08:01
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eranromkota_: Hi.08:02
eranromok, lets start.08:02
kota_hi eranrom, just finished the previous meeting08:02
takashieranrom: yes :-)08:02
eranromI have one topic for today:08:02
eranrom#topic use destack for s2aio08:03
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eranromAt the summit, we agreed that the next step in the big-tent work would be to get rid of 'apt-get install keystone'08:03
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eranromI figured out that the best way to do that is to use devstack (with keystone and swift only) instead of the current 'proprietary' swift/keystone Ansible installation scripts08:04
takashieranrom: Do you mind if I explain some context for that to kota_?08:04
eranromtakashi: sure, please do08:04
takashieranrom: thanks08:04
takashiakihito: hi08:05
takashikota_: As I told you before I'm hitting a permission problem in my packaging work08:05
eranromakihito: hi08:05
akihitoSorry for the delay08:05
kota_takashi: liberasurecode?08:06
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takashitakashi: no. I forgot the precise name, but something like crypto08:07
takashi^^^^ not for me, but for kota_08:08
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takashiwhich is caused by duplicate install about the package by apt and pip08:09
takashiAs you advised me, I stoped to install requirement.txt for functional testing, but it can not be the solution because it seems to be required by python-keystoneclient, which is in test-requirements.txt08:09
takashis/it seems/that crypto package seems/g08:10
takashiThat's why we are currently trying to get rid of apt installation.08:11
kota_I didn't get yet why that causes using devstack?08:11
kota_I don't have opposite but wondering08:11
eranromkota_: It just seems the easiest way to install keystone without taking care of many dependenies.08:12
eranromtrying to do "pip install ." from a freshly checkout keystone master does not seem to work.08:12
eranromthat is, the install finished successfully, but nothing actually runs due to missing deps08:13
kota_eranrom: how about stable/xxx release?08:13
eranromof keystone?08:13
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kota_i think we have a couple of problems08:14
kota_A. installation, B. setup08:14
eranrom kota_: you mean installation and setup of keystone?08:15
kota_eranrom: yes08:15
eranromkota_: well, devstack takes care of both (with some config nobs as well)08:15
kota_eranrom: maybe?08:15
takashikota_: takling about the test for stable release, you can sepcify which tag/branch for each project do you checkout in devstack08:16
kota_i think devstack should work for both keystone installation and setup independently08:16
eranromregarding stable/release, the keystone docs specifically state that the keystone repo does not take care of deps. see note here: http://docs.openstack.org/developer/keystone/installing.html08:17
kota_but the problem takashi got seems virtual env installation on the keystone-installed environment???08:17
kota_that doesn't seem to be related to the way (whether using apt or devstack).08:18
eranromkota_: oh, so you were saying that if takashi used stable/XXX for keystone that conflict between apt and pip would have been gone?08:18
kota_eranrom: yup08:18
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kota_exactly, using devstack is an easy way to intallation/setup08:18
kota_but the environment should be similar with installed by apt08:19
kota_the keystone will be setup-ed in the out of virtualenv?08:19
eranromkota_: Apologies the ignorance, but does devstack install in a virtual env?08:20
kota_I cannot cleary say which way is the best though.08:20
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takashidevstack creates virtual env for each services, so keystone is installed in one virtual env, and swift is installed in the other env (if we also install swift in devstack)08:20
kota_takashi: you're wise08:21
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eranromtakashi: that is the idea. with devstack we also get for free additional distros, and no longer need to maintain our own install scripts08:21
kota_that mean, storlets also cannot use the keystone virtualenv?08:21
takashikota_: still need some more look, but maybe no08:23
eranromkota_: takashi: does it matter?08:23
eranromthat is if storlets can use the keystone virtual env?08:23
kota_i think what we need is to install keystone-client module in the virtual env, right?08:24
kota_s/the virtual env/storlets virtual env/08:24
eranromkota_: right08:24
kota_ah, it might work if duplicated installation for keystone-client to both keystone server virtual env and storlets virtual env08:25
kota_and no installtion to outside python.08:26
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kota_takashi: that's what you'd like to do?08:26
takashikota_: yes, and the important point here is that if we install keystone in virtualenv, we don't need 'sudo' anymore for installing keystone08:27
takashiThe current problem seems to be caused when we install one package in root (by apt), and again install the same package in non-root (by pip)08:27
kota_takashi: that looks a bit far from the fact, that avoids the installation from storlets anymore, right? IIRC?08:28
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takashikota_: oh, yes.08:31
kota_(or just, keeping as reference scripts)08:31
eranromSo are we in agreement for going the devstack way?08:32
kota_could try08:33
kota_but we have some tasks to consider08:33
kota_how we're migrating the test environment to devstack gate08:33
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eranromkota_: Well, currently, I am not looking at moving the storlets installation to devstack, only using devstack to install swift and storlets as part of s2aio.08:34
eranromkota_: unless I am missing here something.08:34
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kota_eranrom: k08:35
kota_eranrom: my point is08:35
kota_how to set up the gate job08:35
eranromkota_: we already have a gate job that calls s2aio followed by calling the functional tests08:36
kota_now we're using s2io setup script in the functional test gate job and it stops takashi's work08:36
takashikota_: At the first point, we can call stack.sh from s2aio.sh08:37
kota_the next step is adding devstack job to run functional? I'm not sure it works or not.08:37
takashiand keep using current func test setting08:37
kota_takashi: ah, you mean, we are including devstack dependency to current storlets master?08:38
takashikota_: yes08:38
eranromIs that a problem?08:39
kota_to be honest, i don't like that way because it increases extra dependencies which we don't need in production08:39
kota_i thought, just running storlets setup and functional on devstack vm instead of adding dependency to storlets repo.08:40
eranromkota_: this is only used in the s2aio script, which IMO, is not actually used in production08:40
kota_that should be crearly separated from our repo.08:41
takashikota_: FYI, some openstack projects like magnum has a devstack plugin in their repo, which is used for testing purpose08:41
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kota_takashi: but swift doesn't08:42
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takashikota_: That's because swift is totally cared in devstack and don't need any additional plugin08:42
eranromok, what do we mean by having dependency on devstack?08:42
kota_takashi: what's additional plugin?08:43
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takashikota_: something like this https://github.com/openstack/magnum/tree/master/devstack08:43
takashiNova, Cinder or other 'core' projects do not have this kind of things, because they are taken care by devstack totally.08:44
takashiBut young projects sometimes have this kind of additonal install framework for testing in their own repo08:45
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takashiSo for me, it seems reasonable to have installation framework for testing in our repo. Of cause we should mark them for 'testing purpose', not for production.08:46
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kota_takashi: I'm now confusing08:47
yuanying_Recently, devstack plugin is main stream. Heat moved devstack plugin from devstack itself08:47
kota_takashi: you said, we need to call stack.sh in the s2io.sh but the plugin looks to be prepared when devstack setuping08:47
kota_takashi: I think just making preparation for setuping for devstack, that looks good08:48
eranromyuanying_: and I think we should do the same as a next step. However, I think that we are currently trying to settle some other misunderstanding.08:48
kota_takashi: but I'm feeling that's bad to make install script via devstack (meaning fetch devstack and calling stack.sh) .08:49
kota_eranrom: that's what I'm feeling > misunderstanding.08:49
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eranromkota_: sorry. I think this is a first step that should be followed by having a storlet devstack plugin08:50
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kota_eranrom: sounds reasonable08:50
kota_maybe the steps are08:50
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takashieranrom: +108:51
kota_1. making plugin, 2. making devstack gate which can run with plugin (this should be successful) and then08:51
kota_3. making a package which can run in the env 208:51
kota_maybe 4. set the 2, 3 to voting job and deprecate current env or set as non-voting?08:52
takashikota_: do you mean to add another gate job which runs over devstack installation?08:52
kota_takashi: sur08:52
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kota_which can run successfuly with your new packaging?08:53
kota_otherwise, current gate job should fail forever?08:53
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kota_am i missing something?08:53
eranromkota_: 2 questions.08:54
kota_because current gate envrionment for functests is not on devstack, IIRC.08:54
kota_eranrom: go ahead.08:54
eranrom1. This means that we cannot land Takashi's work until we are done with step 208:54
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kota_eranrom: for 1, i think so.08:55
eranrom2. In the suggested steps, where do we place the functional tests?08:55
takashieranrom: are you talking about the way to run functional tests over devstack?08:56
takashi(the way to kick our functional tests over devstack08:56
eranromtakashi: yes.08:56
kota_eranrom: for 2, functests will run in current env until step 2, and since step 2 functests will run both environment08:56
kota_and then, after step3 or at the same time, we will stop to run functests in the current environment.08:57
kota_i think08:57
eranromok, I think I gotcha. I think we have two options to go forward:08:58
eranrom1. replace current swift/keystone installation with devstack installation, land takashis packaging work, and then proceed to adding a storlet devstack plugin and move the gate job08:58
eranrom2. follow kota's steps above.08:59
eranromI am afraid that getting a storlet plugin into devstack might take a long time.08:59
kota_eranrom: true08:59
takashi+1 for 1.08:59
eranromtime is up, shell we move to #openstack-storlets?09:00
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takashieranrom: yes09:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"09:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Nov  1 09:00:34 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)09:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2016/storlets.2016-11-01-08.00.html09:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2016/storlets.2016-11-01-08.00.txt09:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2016/storlets.2016-11-01-08.00.log.html09:00
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yanyanhu#startmeeting senlin13:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Nov  1 13:00:02 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is yanyanhu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.13:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.13:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'senlin'13:00
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yanyanhuhi, guys13:00
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yanyanhulets wait for while for other attenders13:00
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yanyanhuok, lets start, I think Qiming will join soon13:01
yanyanhuhere is the agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda#Agenda_.282016-11-01_1300_UTC.2913:01
yanyanhuplease feel free to add any item you want to discuss13:02
yanyanhu#topic ocata work items13:02
*** openstack changes topic to "ocata work items (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:02
yanyanhuhi, Qiming13:02
yanyanhuok, the first item13:02
yanyanhuperformance test. no progress recently13:02
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yanyanhuwill work on it later after versioned request job is done13:03
yanyanhunext one is HA13:03
yanyanhuhi, Qiming, lixinhui13:03
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yanyanhuI guess no code work in last two weeks13:03
lixinhuiwe delivered Auto-healing13:04
yanyanhubut do have some new ideas/plan after summit :)13:04
lixinhuiand get good feedback there, from masakari13:04
yanyanhuhow is it going13:04
yanyanhutaker team?13:04
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lixinhuithe HA team13:04
lixinhuiand Adam13:04
yanyanhuah, I see13:05
lixinhuithe suse guy13:05
lixinhuiand one pacemaker guy13:05
lixinhuithey suggest we cooperate on HA spec and integration together13:05
lixinhuion my side, I may draft a BP about mistral integration with Senlin13:06
lixinhuiin this week13:06
lixinhuiwill need your comments and suggestions13:06
yanyanhunice, please ping us in the channel and will definitely help to review13:06
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yanyanhuI believe there are lots of jobs we can do together with them13:07
elynnAnd they also suggest us to attend their weekly meeting.13:07
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lixinhuiYes :)13:07
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lixinhuiThursday afternoon?13:07
yanyanhuyes, I saw the message you left in the etherpad13:07
yanyanhuour afternoon?13:07
yanyanhuhope that won't conflict with your day time work13:08
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elynnCan't remember the time13:08
yanyanhuI think Qiming joined that meeting before13:08
yanyanhuok, we can check the schedule later. Hope you and Qiming can get time to join it, lixinhui13:08
elynnCan't find meeting time info from above page...13:08
lixinhuiwill find the time later13:09
yanyanhuelynn, I recall its our afternoon but not very sure13:09
yanyanhulixinhui, thanks :)13:09
yanyanhuok, plz update the etherpad if there is any new progress about HA, lixinhui Qiming, :)13:09
yanyanhuok, lets move on13:10
elynnAh, here http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/#High_Availability_Meeting Monday afternoon.13:10
yanyanhuelynn, nice13:10
yanyanhumaybe I will join it as well13:10
yanyanhuas listener :)13:10
yanyanhuok, next one13:11
yanyanhuversioned requests13:11
yanyanhuQiming is now focusing on it13:11
yanyanhuand I'm also trying to provide some help13:11
yanyanhuthe basic framework has been ready before summit13:11
yanyanhuso the current job is migrating old non-versioned implementation to versioned one13:12
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yanyanhuQiming is working on cluster related APIs and I'm now working on node related ones13:12
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yanyanhuyou guys can refer to our recent patches to get more idea about this work13:12
yanyanhuand welcome more hands on it if you guys have time :)13:13
yanyanhuthis the one of the most important work we want to finish this cycle13:13
yanyanhuand without it, it will be risky to make any change on our API interfaces13:13
yanyanhuand also rpc interface I think13:13
yanyanhuso hope can finish it soon13:14
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yanyanhuhi, Qiming, any more comment on the detail?13:14
yanyanhuok, lets move on13:15
yanyanhuzaqar message receiver13:15
yanyanhuspent some time in last two weeks to address some backlogs13:15
yanyanhuincluding add more support to openstacksdk13:15
yanyanhubrian have helped to review and approve those patches13:15
yanyanhuand I think message receiver can now work correctly13:16
yanyanhuI'm still working on integration test for it and this job has almost been done13:16
yanyanhuonly need to wait for sdk to bump its version to make it work13:16
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yanyanhuafter that, I will consider to build a story as reference for user13:16
yanyanhuto illustrate how to use this new type of receiver13:17
briancurtinyanyanhu: i’m actually doing a release right now so a new version should be out within an hour. would have been out right now but got busy at the end of yesterday13:17
yanyanhubriancurtin, great, thanks a lot :)13:18
yanyanhuI will try to check the integration test after new release is ready13:18
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yanyanhuok, any comments or question about this work?13:19
yanyanhuok, next one13:19
yanyanhuevent/notification, no progress I guess13:19
yanyanhunext one, batch policy13:19
yanyanhuruijie is not here?13:20
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yanyanhuruijie is now working on it13:20
yanyanhuthe basic support has been done and he is now adding batch policy support to more cluster actions13:20
yanyanhulike cluster_delete13:20
yanyanhunode_delete, etc.13:20
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yanyanhuplease help to review the code if you guys have time :)13:21
elynnokay, will13:21
yanyanhuok, above is all items in the etherpad13:21
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yanyanhuhi, XueFengLiu lvdongbing, plz feel free to add work items you are working on to the etherpad as well :)13:22
lvdongbingOk :)13:22
yanyanhuthat will be helpful for us to track them13:22
yanyanhuthanks :)13:23
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yanyanhuI believe you guys are also working on some important items13:23
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yanyanhualthough they are not on the list13:23
yanyanhuok, next item in agenda13:24
yanyanhu#topic news from Barcelona summit13:24
Qimingxuefeng is trying to rework the senlin lock thing13:24
*** openstack changes topic to "news from Barcelona summit (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:24
yanyanhuQiming, ah right13:24
Qimingbut I am not sure he is changing it in the right way13:24
yanyanhuthe first patch has been there13:24
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yanyanhuQiming, maybe this worth a spec/bp?13:25
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Qimingdon't think so13:25
yanyanhuI think we'd better make a more thorough discussion on it before starting code job13:25
Qimingneed some explanation why this change is needed13:25
Qimingyes, or else it would be a waste of time13:25
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yanyanhuxuefeng is not online now13:26
yanyanhumaybe we can have a discussion on this topic in irc tomorrow13:26
Qimingcan sync with him later13:26
yanyanhuso if no update for work item, maybe you guys can give us some update about summit :)13:27
yanyanhuQiming, lixinhui elynn :)13:27
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Qimingwe delivered the two presentations, well done13:27
Qimingparticularly the VM HA story, well received by the community wide vm-ha story team13:28
Qimingsenlin may play an important role in that story13:28
Qimingand it is now an expectation from product working group13:28
QimingAdam et al are working on a protocol for VM HA events so that different OpenStack components can be easily integrated13:29
yanyanhudo need more cross-project effort to build the HA solution13:29
QimingI asked him to leave a message when there is a draft for review13:29
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yanyanhuyes, that will very important for our listener13:29
Qimingthey have openstack-ha meetings every Thursday afternoon (need double check), they want us to join it13:30
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yanyanhuif there is a standard for the format, that will be very helpful13:30
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Qimingcould be Monday ...13:30
yanyanhuyes, maybe Monday13:31
yanyanhuelynn just found this link13:31
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yanyanhuwill join it as well as listener13:31
Qimingtime is not bad for UTC+813:31
Qimingnext thread is about integration with Magnum13:31
briancurtinyanyanhu: sorry to interrupt, but just wanted to say openstacksdk 0.9.9 is now available: https://pypi.python.org/pypi/openstacksdk/0.9.913:32
QimingI joined their design session, brought up this as an alternative to their new clustering feature13:32
yanyanhubriancurtin, great!13:32
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yanyanhuthank you so much for this quick verion bumping13:32
Qiminglet's see if gate is using the latest version of sdk13:33
yanyanhuwill test it tomorrow after I go back to office13:33
yanyanhuQiming, yes13:33
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Qimingmagnum team has some special requirements that they cannot get from Heat, seems falling completely into senlin's mission13:33
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QimingTon from the magnum team will have a call with me to understand the detailed requirements next week13:34
yanyanhuQiming, yes, I noticed their discussion about node group in mailing list13:34
Qimingthe third item is about integration with Tacker13:34
yanyanhunice, will jion it as well13:34
QimingHaiwei proposed a session with tacker time to start this13:34
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elynnCould you add me in that call? :)13:35
Qimingseems auto-scaling and auto-heaing are both features they want13:35
yanyanhuelynn, will let you know if the time is decided13:35
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Qimingsure, elynn, don't have the invitation yet, will forward13:35
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elynnThanks Qiming yanyanhu13:36
lixinhuime2 plus13:36
Qimingthey don't have a complete understanding about senlin, so we gave them an intro13:36
Qimingokay, lixinhui13:36
Qimingthe primary concern is about the invocation path:13:36
Qimingthat means two things: they have to use Heat for consuming TOSCA input13:37
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Qimingand they have to use senlin indirectly through heat templates13:37
Qiminghowever, after confirmation with Sadhev, neither one should be a barrier13:38
Qimingheat-translator can be easily adapted to generate senlin profile/policy specs directly13:38
yanyanhugood news13:38
Qimingalthough the implementation is not there yet13:38
yanyanhuI believe there should be no barrier here for we can have lots of discussion with TOSCA team last year13:39
yanyanhuwe already have13:39
Qimingthen they understood ... for single stack cosisting of a combination of many different type of resources, they will continue to use Heat13:39
Qimingwhen they need to build a pool of resources, they will turn to senlin13:39
Qimingthere may be some additional requirements for scaling pools of resources at a finer granularity13:40
yanyanhuyes, they can keep using heat as the orchestration engine. if they have requirement for resource pool, senlin cluster is a good choice13:40
Qimingdoesn't look like a barrier though13:40
yanyanhuyes, won't be13:41
Qimingyes, we have more knobs for them to manage such pools13:41
yanyanhuthat why we started this project13:41
Qimingthat was the 3rd item13:41
Qimingthe next item is about baremetal support13:41
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Qimingsome Huawei people joined out morning session, raising requirements on manageing edge devices, which are baremetal machines13:42
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Qimingwe shared the existing BP (from yongli) and expressed our expectation to resource investments13:43
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Qimingthe gentleman promised that they will invest some people to get this done13:43
elynnI think we can find more from this link for what they are doing. https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/meghdwar13:43
yanyanhuhope somebody can pick it up :)13:43
QimingI have just marked the BP as obsolete because we are not receiving requirements on it13:44
Qimingneed to resume it now13:44
yanyanhuelynn, thanks for the link :)13:44
yanyanhuQiming, yes13:44
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Qimingseems lixinhui and haiwei are both interested in the NFV story13:45
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yanyanhuactually baremetal cluster is a very common requirement for many use cases I think13:45
Qimingmaybe we can create a thread for that13:45
yanyanhuwill add this item to etherpad as well13:45
yanyanhuto make it easy to track13:45
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Qiminglixinhui, please amend if I'm missing anything13:45
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lixinhuino, your introduction is complete and perfect :)13:46
yanyanhuhave the same feeling, haha13:46
Qimingsuch a nice girl, never say things bad about me13:46
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elynnI think nova can manage bare metal, why do we need a bare metal cluster?13:46
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yanyanhuelynn, maybe manging it through ironic is a better way13:47
Qimingmanaging a server is not the same thing as managing a cluster, right?13:47
elynnyou mean we might need some special policy for bare metal ?13:48
Qimingwe need profile type13:48
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elynna profile type to use ironic ?13:48
yanyanhuyes, think so13:49
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yanyanhuand maybe for other barematel backends13:49
yanyanhuif needed13:49
Qimingtheir api is here: http://developer.openstack.org/api-ref/baremetal/13:50
elynnI see ..13:50
Qimingyou cannot treat it just as a different nova13:50
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yanyanhuok, looks good13:52
yanyanhuany more comments here?13:52
elynnI thought ironic is a driver for nova, seems I was wrong.13:52
yanyanhuelynn, it is also a individual service I think13:52
yanyanhujust nova has virt driver for it13:53
yanyanhuI guess13:53
QimingI think xuefeng is online, but he doesn't know how to join a channel, ...13:53
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yanyanhuI saw he dropped13:53
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yanyanhuand didn't join back13:53
yanyanhuanyway, we have 6 mins left13:54
Qimingwell, he left a message on code review , :D13:54
yanyanhuwill check it13:54
yanyanhu#topic open discussion13:54
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:54
QimingPatch Set 1:13:54
QimingI am online.But I can't access #openstack-meeting now.13:54
yanyanhumaybe network problem13:55
yanyanhuthe most interesting way to leave msg I've ever seen :)13:55
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yanyanhuok, we have 4mins13:56
yanyanhuany more topics?13:56
Qimingno from me13:56
yanyanhuhi, xuefengliu, good to see U again :)13:56
yanyanhuok, if not further item to discuss, we can release the channel a little bit earlier13:57
yanyanhuthis time13:57
xuefengliuuse phone now13:57
yanyanhunetwork is unstable13:57
xuefengliunetwork has some problem13:57
yanyanhuok, thanks all you guys for joining13:57
yanyanhuxuefengliu, yes...13:57
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yanyanhuwill end the meeting. Have a good night :)13:58
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Ruijie_have a good one13:58
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"13:58
openstackMeeting ended Tue Nov  1 13:58:45 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)13:58
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-11-01-13.00.html13:58
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-11-01-13.00.txt13:58
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-11-01-13.00.log.html13:58
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xuefengliuonly see. meeting topic:senlin.no other message13:59
yanyanhuxuefengliu, I also met this problem before :(13:59
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yuval#startmeeting Karbor14:59
openstackMeeting started Tue Nov  1 14:59:14 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is yuval. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:59
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:59
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Karbor)"14:59
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'karbor'14:59
yuvalhello everybody14:59
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yuvalsaggi: sorry, thought you are away. you go :)14:59
saggiAre we waiting on anyone?15:00
yuvalxiangxinyong, zhonghua, yinwei?15:01
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edisonxyhello i am xiang15:01
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saggi#topic Checkpoint API -- Partial Delete15:01
saggiI can't control the meeting15:01
saggiyuval: You do it15:02
yuval#topic Checkpoint API -- Partial Delete15:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Checkpoint API -- Partial Delete (Meeting topic: Karbor)"15:02
saggiWho suggested it?15:02
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saggiI guess we'll postpone discussing it for next week15:03
saggiJust in time15:03
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saggichenying1: could you explain Partial Delete?15:04
chenying1I submit this topic, just want to discuss whether we need consider this scene。15:04
chenying1saggi I have described the scene in the irc meeting wiki.15:05
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zhonghuaThe user create a plan with several volumes. These volumes don't have any relationships.15:06
zhonghuaAdd these resources to one plan, the user just want to protect them at the same time point.15:06
zhonghuaSo he have a request that operating the backup copies in one checkpoint separately.15:06
saggiI don't think so. Checkpoints are read only once they are created. We might suggest creating a new checkpoint which is a clone of parts of an existing checkpoint but I don't think it's anything near the top use cases we want to support15:06
saggifor at least the next 8 months15:06
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saggiWe have a lot more pending issues15:07
saggiSo unless we see real demand for it15:07
saggiI think we should put it on the back burner15:07
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zhonghuasaggi: need we consider it later?15:09
chenying1This scene is from the a private Cloud product.15:09
yuval#topic Openstack Barcelona15:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Openstack Barcelona (Meeting topic: Karbor)"15:09
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saggiyuval, zhonghua-lee edisonxy and I were in Openstack Summit last week15:10
saggiWe had a lot of productive talks15:11
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saggiBut it was too bad that some of you couldn't make it and participate15:11
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saggiWe summed up the meetings here15:12
saggiBut I think that for now going over: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/karbor-ocata-roadmap15:12
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saggiWe've highlighted things that we want to achieve in the Okata cycle15:13
saggiFirst, I'd like to remind everyone that it's a short cycle.15:13
saggiIt ends in February15:13
saggiSo there isn't a lot of time15:13
TommyLikeHu_yes, cinder had blocked most of the specs~15:13
Chenzengsaggi:hope for your sharing,sending an email is a good idea15:13
saggiChenzeng: I will, I'm sorry I was very ill the last few days.15:14
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saggiSecond, our goal for Newton was to be stable15:14
saggiWhich we failed to achieve15:14
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saggiWe have a lot of problems that prevent even the most common use cases from working15:15
saggiWe need to hold back on new features and start fixing bugs.15:15
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chenying1Some patches about operationengine need be reviewed and to be merged. Now the operationengine doesn't work in karbor's master branch.15:16
saggichenying1 email me the links15:16
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yuvalchenying1: what do you mean 'doesnt work'? did a specific patch break it?15:17
zhonghuachenying1: yeah, there are many patches are waiting for merging.15:17
saggiyuval, and I will make a detailed plan on what exactly it means. But first we need to make sure everyone can run and test everything, including the UI.15:17
chenying1saggi  OK I will send a etherpad link. some patches have adressed there.15:17
saggichenying1, +115:17
saggiThe things that are marked in bold are things that were accepted as part of the Okata cycle. It's still not set in stone. You can comment on the etherpad just make sure to put your name so we know who uses what color.15:18
saggiJust don't mark things bold15:18
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saggiJust add +1\-115:18
chenying1'doesnt work' means that karbor cann't run scheduled protection plan.15:19
yuvalchenying1: I understand, I was asking if a specific patch broke it15:19
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chenying1yuval: Yes not only one.  several patches.15:20
Chenzengsaggi:I think there are some issues about taskflow used in protect service to re-consider.15:20
yuvalChenzeng: what do you mean?15:20
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saggiChenzeng: ?15:22
Chenzengyuval:for example,we don't use the parallel executor of taskflow15:22
chenying1Yuval  What's your plan about the new design patches? IMO we need review and merge them ASAP. If there are some situation we have not think about clearly, we could submit new patch to fix it.15:23
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Chenzengyuval,:and  some other things,I will send an email to describe details15:24
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saggiyuval: Would you like to talk about the worksession we had on the subject?15:24
yuvalchenying1: we have discussed that in the summit. The idea for ocata is to have that api for protect operation, while restore operation is unable to use such api because of heat15:24
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yuvalchenying1: we were talking about removing heat, but until then, restore cannot have a pre and post for each resource15:25
chenying1Ok I need update the message to some verdors.   They are developing the plugins based on the new interfaces.15:26
yuvalchenying1: goal for ocata is to stablize the plugin api15:27
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saggichenying1: we already spoke about it that we don't say that the internal APIs are stable until we hit v 1.015:29
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chenying1saggi  we also need think about this,  some verdors are planing to develop the integration plugins.15:31
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saggichenying1: we already had this conversation and we agreed that we can't do that. That it makes sense to design supported interfaces properly15:32
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edisonxyyuval: does it mean your patches for protection service will not be merged in ocata?15:33
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yuvaledisonxy: they will, but further changes are required to them15:33
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chenying1So the southbound interface of karbor is high priority.15:34
saggiIt is15:34
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saggiWe have been asking for comments for weeks15:34
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edisonxyyuval: we want to meege your patches asap15:35
saggizhonghua-lee, edisonxy: How was the summit for you?15:35
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chenying1about the southbound interface of karbor  I think we need gather more solutions form backup software vendors.15:36
edisonxyyuval: and make some further modification15:36
edisonxysaggi: very well. we learned a lot of things and people.15:37
yuvalI feel the same way. It was great you meet you edisonxy and zhonghua-lee as well!15:40
yuval*to meet15:40
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saggiJust to sum things up we need to direct our efforts better. Getting stable and staying there is top priority for Okata. We can't afford to miss that deadline. We want to be able to say we are stable for Boston and that means being stable for Okata.15:42
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yuval#topic open discussion15:44
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: Karbor)"15:44
saggiAny last thoughts?15:45
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:47
openstackMeeting ended Tue Nov  1 15:47:19 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:47
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-11-01-14.59.html15:47
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-11-01-14.59.txt15:47
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2016/karbor.2016-11-01-14.59.log.html15:47
saggiThanks everybody15:47
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mmedvede#startmeeting third-party17:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Nov  1 17:01:13 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is mmedvede. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)"17:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'third_party'17:01
ja3moin moin misha17:01
mmedvedehey ja3 !17:01
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mmedvededid you go to summit?17:01
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mmedvedeI think I saw your presentation, but maybe you have a double17:02
ja3evil twin17:02
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mmedvede#link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ThirdParty#2016-11-15_1700_UTC17:04
mmedvede#topic Jenkins Security-17017:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Jenkins Security-170 (Meeting topic: third-party)"17:04
mmedvedethere are a few patches up right now that are all related to making puppet-jenkins work, and they seemed to have stalled17:05
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mmedvede#link install specific version of Jenkins https://review.openstack.org/#/c/366803/17:06
mmedvede#link disable security feature https://review.openstack.org/#/c/334400/17:06
mmedvedethis I do not think would go in ^17:07
mmedvedebut we should to try to push on:17:07
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mmedvede#link allow customized jenkins configuration https://review.openstack.org/#/c/262787/17:07
ja3Is Ramy still working any of them?17:08
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mmedvedenot sure, there is not much to improve on the last one17:10
mmedvedeI did bump it, maybe some more people would review17:10
ja3do you ever attend infra meetings?17:10
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mmedvedeja3: yes17:11
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ja3I don't remember if ramy had core in infra, but seems like this needs an infra core to nudge it along.17:11
ja3I'm actually impressed that Isaac hasn't given up after 10 months with this in the queue.  Not a great optic, that.17:12
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mmedvedepeople forget, and are busy. So some patches get forgotten17:13
mmedvedeI wonder if a lot of people are still on post Summit vacation17:14
ja3well ideally someone AT the summit would have met to get attn on things like this.  I admit I was not looking much at infra's track, to the degree they had one.17:15
mmedvede#topic Open Discussion17:15
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: third-party)"17:15
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ja3I don't have anything really17:16
mmedvedeme either17:16
mmedvedeja3: great presentation, by the way17:17
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mmedvedeanyone else around?17:17
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mmedvedeja3: thanks for stopping by17:19
ja3it is _so_ weird having people watch pres recordings.  still not used to being a youtube "star"17:19
ja3see you in 2 weeks there misha.17:20
mmedvedehold on, would post a link here17:20
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mmedvede#link ja3 Summit presentation https://youtu.be/aAKpRI1vjeo?t=6s17:21
mmedvedetangentially related to CI17:21
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:21
openstackMeeting ended Tue Nov  1 17:21:44 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:21
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-11-01-17.01.html17:21
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-11-01-17.01.txt17:21
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2016/third_party.2016-11-01-17.01.log.html17:21
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* ayoung sneaks in and turns up the volume on the mike17:57
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* stevemar tosses the mic out the window17:59
stevemarping ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, crinkle, claudiub, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, gagehugo, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, jaugustine, joesavak, jorge_munoz, knikolla, lbragstad, MaxPC, morgan, nishaYadav, nkinder, notmorgan, raildo, ravelar, rodrigods, rderose, roxanaghe, samleon, samueldmq, shaleh, stevemar, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong, xek, StefanPaetowJisc17:59
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stevemar#startmeeting keystone18:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Nov  1 18:00:01 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is stevemar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:00
crinkle o/18:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:00
stevemarboom right at 2!18:00
knikollao/ just in time as i finished reading the proposed specs.18:00
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stevemarhey its bknudson!18:00
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* stevemar goes up and gives bknudson a big hug18:00
stevemarwe've missed you18:00
* bknudson hugs back18:01
stevemarwe've got team at&t in the house too, lamt jaugustine and gagehugo18:01
stevemarnotbreton: ?! are you turning into morgan?18:01
samueldmqhi all18:01
notbretonstevemar: nah, I just have to irc via browser :(18:02
* stevemar pokes lbragstad dstanek and dolphm with a stick18:02
stevemardamn rackers18:02
stevemarlets get going18:02
stevemar#topic announcements18:02
*** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:02
stevemarbreton is core!18:02
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stevemarthanks for all the reviews and high quality feedback!18:03
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jaugustinecongrats !18:03
stevemarbreton: notbreton let me know if i forgot to flip any switches18:03
stevemarthanks for agreeing to guard the gate :)18:04
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stevemarnext announcement, i still don't have a draft of our turtle, which ayoung has nicked stoney18:04
stevemaras soon as i get it, i'll forward it to the ML18:05
ayoung#action ayoung Draw Stoney18:05
stevemar#action ayoung Draw Stoney18:05
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stevemar#topic spec reviews!18:05
*** openstack changes topic to "spec reviews! (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:05
ayoungeveryone see the rought sketch>?18:05
stevemar#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/keystone-specs+status:open18:06
ayoung#link https://twitter.com/admiyoung/status/78917975253166899218:06
stevemarthere are a few specs which were deemed a high priority as the summit, we should look at landing some of these18:06
stevemarayoung: s'all good18:06
stevemari've highlighted a few in the meeting etherpad18:07
stevemarcurrently we only have 4 specs targeting ocata, one of which is already implemented (thanks rderose!)18:07
stevemari'm hoping for a few more to be approved (properties for projects, PCI x 2, MFA)18:08
notbretonhaven't I proposed fernet backends to O?18:08
stevemarwhile we have a full room, is there a particular spec folks want to chat about?18:08
stevemarnotbreton: you did, i approved it (since it was already backlogged), see http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/keystone-specs/18:08
ayoungCan we agree to not bikeshed on the specs, and instead accept imperfect ones that can be corrected as we learn more?18:09
stevemari agree that the spec will never reflect the final implementaiton and am willing to not bikeshed on certain topics. but some need to be a bit more baked than others18:09
samueldmqbreton: notbreton: congrats, well done18:09
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ayoungstevemar, legitimate concerns are legitimate18:10
samueldmqstevemar: ++18:11
stevemarwould folks prefer to just review the specs? we can skip to the next topic18:11
stevemari figured now is a good time to ask the spec authors some quesitons in real time18:11
samueldmqI just would like to avoid facing conceptual issues when implementing18:11
dstanekstevemar: you have to poke harder next time18:11
ayoungproperties for projects  is that a good idea?18:12
notbretondo i need a spec to store token fernet keys in credential_api?18:12
lbragstadsamueldmq most of the time you can get around that by implementing as you write the spec18:12
notbretonayoung: yes18:12
stevemarayoung: we've had almost all operators come to us asking for it18:12
stevemar"extras" doesn't work for them18:12
ayoungstevemar, I know, but still not convinced.18:12
notbretoneveryone now does it via extras18:12
bknudsonshould have known when we started adding security to identity it would be an unending request for more features.18:12
samueldmqlbragstad: yes indeed, that helps18:12
notbretonwhich is bad18:12
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gagehugowould be nice to get away from extras18:13
samueldmqstevemar: what specs ? the ones in backlog ("Ocata approved specs") ?18:13
ayoungthis is like quotas.  It falls down on the details18:13
samueldmqstevemar: the ones you want us to review18:13
stevemarsamueldmq: the ones highlighted in the meeting agenda18:13
ayoungI've held off, but that one is making my -2 stamp itchy18:13
bknudsonif you have a good reason to -2 then please do it18:13
samueldmqstevemar: thanks18:13
bknudsonotherwise we don't know what the reason is18:14
ayoungI'm tempted to say that anything they are putting in Keystone should go into swift instead18:14
stevemarayoung: ? project properties?18:14
stevemarin swift?18:14
ayoungstevemar, yes18:14
ayoungstevemar, yes18:14
ayoungstevemar, swift is where you put unstructured data18:14
ayoungwe do a lot of that in Tripleo18:15
ayoungAlso, Heat templates tend to have this kind of stuff....18:15
stevemaryou're also now telling folks they require swift ;)18:16
ayoungKeystone, in general, should not have project specific data in it.18:16
ayoungstevemar, no, I am telling them that there are alternatives to putting it in Keystone18:16
ayoungand am challenging the notion that Keystone should be a RDBMS for the rest of OpenStack18:16
notbretonit's not actually unstructured data. It's key-value, where both key and value are ascii. Used for aggregation, for example.18:17
ayoungstevemar, for example, Post Orchestration Processing lead to the whole Vendor-Data spec for Nova18:17
ayoungbilling codes belongs with cloud kitty18:17
ayoungNow, I agree we need better notifications, but that is true anyway18:18
stevemarayoung: i'm still not getting how i'm supposed to use swift for this? create an object for every project or something18:18
ayoungnotbreton, if we really don't think Keystone can even correctly store Quota data, how can we say it should store aggregates?18:18
ayoungstevemar, yes18:19
ayoungstevemar, if the data is really unstructured, use swift.  If it is specific to some subsystem, like billing, push off to billing18:19
ayoungI can't think of one example where Keystone is the best option.  Anyone care to come up with one?18:20
stevemarit's metadata about a resource owned by keystone, if i delete the resource, the metadata will be cleaned up, not the case if i push it off18:20
ayoungstevemar two bad things you said18:21
ayoungone metadata is not meta.  It is just data18:21
stevemaragreed, but alright18:21
ayoungand 2 we already have notifications. it is up to the remote services to listen for them18:21
ayoungand clean up.  They need to do so anyway18:21
ayoungThat is workflow, and there are already workflow engines galore18:21
ayoungHeat, and Mistral and Ansible oh my18:22
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ayoungSo, I'm tempted to push back on this one18:22
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stevemarayoung: we also have 2 precedents now, nova stores metadata related to servers, and now you're suggesting swift for unstructured data18:22
notbretonayoung: I think keystone can correctly store quota limits data :p18:22
notbretonayoung: but lets talk about it later, after I post to ML.18:23
ayoungnotbreton, of course it can.  But yet, each time when we explain to the other projects what it means to do it, they balk.  Happend at just about every summit so far18:23
bknudsonwe should create microservices so that there can be more experimentation18:23
stevemarayoung: who implemented the work for the tripleo artifacts stuff, shardy?18:23
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ayoungstevemar, possibly, or someone else on the team at his direction18:24
stevemari'll be happy to add him and someone from nova to the review18:24
stevemaralso, the issue of consistency across openstack projects comes up18:24
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ayoungstevemar, I'd like to see better laid out justifications.  I'm not holding it up, but I am also far from convinced18:25
ayoungby "projects" here I assume you mean "services"18:25
stevemarthats fine. gagehugo lamt jaugustine you guys proposed the spec and i've done all the talking :P18:25
stevemarayoung: correct18:25
ayoungand, I don't think we are going to get that, and are, in fact likely to get conflicts18:25
notbretonif many things from openstack need metadata, maybe there should be a service for it18:25
ayoungwhat if both nova and neutron have a key names "network" for exdample18:25
stevemarayoung: nova and cinder do it the metadata way18:25
notbretonprojects needs metadata, servers need metadata, cinder stuff need metadata18:25
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notbretoncan we have metadata-as-a-service?18:26
ayoungI've voiced my concern.  We can move on.18:26
thingeenotbreton that has existed18:26
stevemarnotbreton: this is going back to your quota, we need a centralized service topic? :P18:26
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stevemara wild thingee appears18:26
stevemarthingee: what existed?18:27
ayoungTHink of "project" as a lable on others remote data instead of something that should be stored in Keystone18:27
notbretonthingee: we need to talk about quote limits btw18:27
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thingeea central place for metadata18:27
stevemarthingee: what was it called?18:27
ayoungthingee, its called Swift18:27
thingeeI believe that was the graffiti project18:27
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stevemardammit bknudson18:28
bknudsonit does seem like every project has metadata18:28
ayoungSo, a rule of thumb is, if when creating data for a remote machine, you have to define new datatypes, you are probably going to far.18:28
thingeefigured I should link it too :)18:28
bknudsonat least we're all looking at the same thing18:28
lbragstadfound the link - https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Graffiti18:28
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stevemarayoung please document your concerns in the review18:29
thingeeI'll email the dev ML with this link too, just in case.18:29
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ayoungstevemar, wilco18:29
stevemarwe can continue to discuss it there18:29
stevemarany other specs that folks want to talk about18:29
* ayoung on RBAC18:30
stevemari think the MFA and PCI notification specs are easily approved18:30
gagehugowhat about the expired users one?18:30
ayoungallow_expired is, as they say around here, wicked impohtant18:30
stevemar"non-admin access to TOTP credentials" -- i need to see APIs there, it need to be baked a bit longer18:30
stevemargagehugo: so that one still confuses me a bit18:31
gagehugohow so?18:31
stevemari don't like the fact that we've now got "disabled" and "expired" for users :(18:31
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stevemar#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/383832/18:31
gagehugoI don't either, but currently someone can be locked out and their enabled flag is still true18:32
ayoungstevemar, would we treat them differently?18:32
ayoungI think we would when validating a remote operation18:32
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stevemarayoung: i suppose we should treat them differently.18:32
ayounglike:  an expired user can't do a new operation, but if they created a trust, that trust should still be valid18:32
stevemarif i'm expired and not disabled, then resetting my password should work18:32
stevemarif i'm expired and disabled, resetting my password should not work18:32
notbretonlets just have it as boolean without any functionality18:33
stevemarboth should fail on other APIs18:33
stevemarwhich i think we do18:33
stevemargagehugo: did you get the API from an existing source? or make that up?18:34
stevemarthe bit here: password_expires_at={operator}:{timestamp}18:34
notbretonif it is needed for accounting and audit purposes, it can just be for information, and user's abilities should not depend on it18:34
gagehugothat is made up18:34
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stevemargagehugo: would be nice to get the API working group to OK it then18:34
gagehugothat bit came from another example that is linked in the comments18:35
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stevemaror if we have another service that already does something similar, we should do it like that18:35
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stevemaroh i see18:35
gagehugoyeah that18:35
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stevemargagehugo: add that to the spec so dummies like me don't waste meeting time :)18:36
stevemarasking silly questions18:36
gagehugowill do18:36
stevemari gotta go over this one again, but i think its OK18:36
gagehugooh I did have it, but lamt removed it :o18:36
stevemarits the best we can do to fulfill the PCI requirement of seeing all the expired users18:36
gagehugoI'll put it back18:36
stevemartsk tsk lamt18:37
stevemaror creating a notification for them anyway18:37
notbretonso does anybody even use notifications?18:37
ayoungnotbreton, ceilometer18:37
stevemarayoung: i think he means in production18:38
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stevemarnotbreton: i believe mfisch tried but ended up disabling them cause of rabbit18:38
ayoungstevemar, notbreton as far as the devstack setup, that is the only service that is registered to read Keystone events18:38
* notbreton sighs18:38
ayoungYou need to tune it.  We produce a lot of events18:38
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ayoungthere are config options to remove notifications for token validations and rejections and such18:39
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stevemaryou can use the non-CADF notifications, they are the default actually18:40
stevemarand not get bombarded18:40
stevemarwith auth requests18:40
ayoungAsk the operators who use it in production beyond that, but RDO and RH OSP enable them for ceilometer.18:40
lamtit is to sate the security office's auditing demands in case they want it.  Probably will need to tune that.18:40
* ayoung likes use of the word 'sate'18:40
ayoungcan I talk abouit RBAC now?18:41
stevemar#topic Token Verify Role Check18:41
*** openstack changes topic to "Token Verify Role Check (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:41
ayoungOK...so I think I have a very good, keystonesque way to do what we tried to do with dynamic policy18:41
ayoungI've written the spec quickly since the summit, so please ask questions18:41
ayoung#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/391624/18:42
stevemari haven't reviewed it yet :(18:42
ayounghere is the TLDR18:42
stevemarlooks like lbragstad has18:42
ayoungdo the role check inside of Keystone during token validation18:42
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ayoungeseentially, split the Role check off the rest of policy18:42
bknudsonhow does keystone what role a user needs?18:42
ayoungthe existing policy enforcement in the service specific code stays there18:42
ayoungbknudson, based on the URL pattern18:43
ayoungbknudson, the exampel I used was modify server18:43
ayoung     -H "X-Auth-Token:    3d0b48b7bcdd"  \18:43
ayoung     -H "X-Subject-Token: adb5c708a55f"  \18:43
ayoung     -H "Content-type: application/json" \18:43
ayoung     -H "X-Request-URL: https://nova1:8774/v2.1/2497f6​/servers/​83cbdc \18:43
ayoung     GET \18:43
ayoung     https://keystone1:35357/v3/auth/tokens?service=identity&verb=PUT&nocatalog=True18:43
ayoungthe request URL gets passed to keystone18:43
ayoungkeystone then matches it agains:18:43
ayoungET /v2.1/​{tenant_id}​/servers/​{server_id}​18:44
ayoungGET /v2.1/​{tenant_id}​/servers/​{server_id}​18:44
ayoungas well as the service=identity  part18:44
ayounger...that is a type18:44
ayoungshoudl be18:44
ayoungwe use the implied roles mechanism to link from roles to the url Patterns18:45
bknudsonso there's a table of operation+URL to roles?18:45
ayoungbknudson, yes18:45
ayoung2 tables18:45
lbragstadso keystone will ultimately own a subset of the policy?18:45
ayoungone for the url patterns, and then the existing role inference rules, but also allowing the patterns18:45
ayounglbragstad, the services will have their own rbac files, but they will get uploaded to Keystone at startup18:46
ayoungthe default rule will be role = Member18:46
lbragstadso there will be some duplicate data between what keystone owns and the policies of each service18:46
ayounglbragstad, not a lot.18:46
lbragstadbut some18:46
lbragstaddo we have a way to keep them in sync?18:46
ayounglbragstad, the duplication will be more between the rbac rules and the matching of the URLs for the WSGI processing18:46
ayoungfor example, in Keystone, we could easily tag the roles required in the routers.py Mapping setup18:47
lbragstad(ie. policy check in keystone passes but it fails the service policy check because the service policy has since been updated)18:47
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ayounglbragstad, so, this is limiting it to only the role check.  If a service first said an API should be allwed by, say, Member, but decides that it shoudl really be Admin then, yes, you would need to update the Keystone rules18:48
lbragstadkeystone will be in charge of checking that the roles associated to a specific scope can do a specific action, yeah?18:48
ayounglbragstad, right18:48
stevemarthe only issue here is the same one for all the other changes for policy and authz. they need to be backward compatible, and it's going to be like moving a mountain (pushing changes across all the projects)18:48
ayoungthat check happens during the token validation call, after the exisitng logic in the token provider18:48
lbragstadwhat's the benefit of keeping that check in the service if keystone is going to do it?18:48
ayoungstevemar, so, it is backwards compat18:48
ayoung that is why I am dancinfg with glee18:49
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ayounglbragstad, the services provide the default file, not checked in the services18:49
ayoungit is checked by middleware18:49
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ayoungwe can make a first cut for them, but we can also keep them in a separate repo if we want18:49
ayoungif we make the default Rule Member, and say Admin implies member, everything today still works18:49
lbragstadok - so if keystone is going to check the role policy in token validation - what other policy checks are needed?18:50
ayoungalso, this is not enabled by default18:50
ayoungwe give some transition time18:50
ayounglbragstad, the scope check still happens in code18:50
ayoungor anything Neutron specific, for example18:50
ayoungwe don't do anything *but* the role check in Keystone18:50
lbragstadscope as in - keystonemiddleware needs to check that a specific user can do a specific thing on a specific project?18:50
ayoungmaybe a few flags for keystone like things suych as is_admin_project18:50
ayounglbragstad, right:  check that the project in the token m atches the project for the resource (VM, network etc)18:51
ayoungso...beat up the spec, ask quesitons. I might even put a FAQ section right into the spec18:52
ayoungI think this is it.18:52
ayoungIt punts on some of the hard policy questions like the Moon project was trying to solve18:52
ayoungwe won't be responsibole for instance specific policy, for example18:53
ayoungOh, I also punted on endpoint specific, but we could support that in a future spec18:53
lbragstadfor that you'd need to do all the policy checks in keystone - i would think (which seemed like what moon was doing)18:53
ayounglbragstad, I have to admit, alot of this came from evaluating what Moon was doing.  I tried to strike a balance18:54
ayoungMoon could not actually do what they wanted18:54
ayoungby making their check in middleware, they lost the ability to query the database18:54
ayoungthey only had the URL and reuqest to work with18:54
ayoungso no ownership check, for example18:54
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stevemarthis is a massive change and definitely needs eyes on it18:54
ayoungin order to do that, you need to do it after the resource is fetched from the database18:54
ayoungstevemar, agreed, which is why I wanted to talk through it18:54
lbragstadayoung have you run this by any operators?18:55
ayoungstevemar, it also solves the question of how we tell Horizon what role is needed18:55
ayounglbragstad, not yet18:55
ayounglbragstad, It hit me on THursday, and then a second wave of realization since you first read it18:55
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stevemari need to actually read it18:55
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ayoungOK,  I surrender the conch for now18:56
stevemarhenrynash should weigh in on it too ^18:56
ayoungstevemar, ++18:56
henrynashI will (when I have read it too)!18:56
ayoungstevemar, I meant to add in an example of how domain specific roles could be used here18:56
stevemarthe last item on the agenda is a quickie18:56
stevemar#topic allow expired18:57
ayoungIE; we won't allow project specific policy, but we might allow domain specific policy...18:57
*** openstack changes topic to "allow expired (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:57
stevemarjamielennox is asking for reviews:18:57
stevemarKeystone: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/382098/18:57
stevemarkeystoneclient: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/382099/18:57
* dstanek needs to spend some time digesting this18:57
stevemaroh also, if someone wants to reply to the mailing list: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack/2016-October/017912.html go ahead and do so18:57
stevemari'm also out this [thursday -> sunday] just a heaads up18:58
ayoungEvenbrite signup for PTG is up18:58
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stevemaroh nice18:58
ayoung#link https://www.eventbrite.com/e/project-teams-gathering-tickets-2754929869418:59
ayoungI think they are limiting to 500.18:59
stevemarthanks everyone!18:59
stevemarlbragstad: yes, total18:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"18:59
ayoungTIcket are transferrable up to Feb 1419:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Nov  1 18:59:58 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-11-01-18.00.html19:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-11-01-18.00.txt19:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-11-01-18.00.log.html19:00
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fungiinfra team, assemble!19:01
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fungithis week's topics proposed by ttx, ianw, pabelanger19:02
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fungiAJaeger: thanks for keeping me on track19:02
AJaegerfungi: you're welcome19:02
fungi#startmeeting infra19:03
openstackMeeting started Tue Nov  1 19:03:04 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:03
fungi#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting19:03
fungi#topic Announcements19:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
fungi#info Many members of the Infra team met in person last week at the Ocata Design Summit in Barcelona; a summary will be provided to openstack-infra@lists.openstack.org later this week.19:03
fungi#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Design_Summit/Ocata/Etherpads#Infrastructure19:03
fungi#action fungi send summit session summary to infra ml19:03
fungias always, feel free to hit me up with announcements you want included in future meetings19:03
fungi#topic Actions from last meeting19:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
fungi#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-10-18-19.02.html19:03
fungipleia2 add skeleton infra session etherpads linked from the ocata design summit etherpads wiki page19:04
fungithat's done (see above link in this week's announcements)19:04
fungithanks for taking care of that!19:04
fungiianw work on deploying a pholio server19:04
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/38951119:04
fungithat looks pretty close19:04
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ianwyep, imagine that will be up this week19:04
* fungi rubs hands together evilly19:04
fungi#topic Specs approval: PROPOSED "Neutral governance website" (ttx)19:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval: PROPOSED "Neutral governance website" (ttx) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:05
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fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/382447 "Neutral governance website" spec19:05
fungi#info The "Neutral governance website" spec is open for Infra Council vote until 19:00 UTC Thursday, November 3.19:05
ttxMostly a rundown of all the steps I need to go through19:05
ttxto rotate current / to /tc with minimal disruption19:05
fungiit looked complete enough to me19:06
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fungianybody need to raise any quick questions about this?19:06
ttxlet me know if you have questions19:06
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fungiit's likely common sense for those who have been following te governance changes with the uc, but the commit message and spec description spell it out pretty explicitly19:07
clarkbI remember skimming this and it seems to be straightforward19:07
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ttxyeah, nothing fancy really19:07
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fungithanks ttx! if nobody objects, i'll be approving it in ~48 hours19:07
ttxcool, thanks!19:07
fungi#topic Priority Efforts19:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Meeting topic: infra)"19:08
funginothing is called out on the agenda19:08
fungithough rcarrillocruz has proposed to mark infra-cloud as implemented19:08
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/391443 "Mark infracloud spec as complete"19:08
fungiaside from the technicalities of the index change, anyone disagree that it's implemented enough to be listed as such?19:08
fungiwe seemed to have some consensus on this in the friday afternoon unconference anyway19:08
clarkb+1, we are in run the cloud mode now, but its there19:08
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fungiokay, cool. once rcarrillocruz corrects the patch (or when i get around to it if he doesn't have time), i'll approve it19:09
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fungicongrats crinkle, rcarrillocruz, yolanda and everyone who worked so hard on making this work!19:10
fungi#topic Cached image reduction changes (ianw)19:10
*** openstack changes topic to "Cached image reduction changes (ianw) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:10
fungiyou've got a pretty lengthy summary in the agenda, but care to restate it for posterity of the meeting logs?19:10
mordred(sorry I'm late)19:10
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ianwthis was proposed by xen people for devstack, to allow the image list to be reduced in devstacks ./tools/image_list.sh19:11
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ianwthus there is a project config change to only get those images for testing that we use in the gate19:12
fungii think this dovetails into the arbitrary object mirroring work we've discussed recently19:12
pabelangerI would agree19:13
clarkbya I think we probably want a minimal image list cached for devstack (cirros or its possible future replacement) and then put everything else on arbitrary file caching setup19:13
ianwso i've proposed that we stop devstack downloading images on the fly, and put in a way to block that, and proposed enabling it19:13
fungiit would be nice to figure out which of these we actually use in jobs, and then which of them we use often enough to benefit from pre-caching on job nodes vs local mirrors in each provider19:13
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fungibut i agree, not caching images we don't use at all in our jobs is a great place to start19:13
ianwhmm, so that would conflict with the "don't download testing images on the fly" approach, if some are to be grabbed from mirrors19:13
AJaegerI'm fine with the current change set in general. The initial changes contained duplicated hardcoded list, which I strongly objected to.19:14
clarkbianw: they may be grabbed via /afs though19:14
clarkbianw: in which case its not a download but a filepath that we set in our jobs19:14
AJaegerlooking at the paste, codesearch showed all images as beeing used - with exception of cirros-0.3.0-x86_64-disk.vhd.tgz. Not sure where this comes from19:14
fungijob nodes referencing via /afs paths misses out on a reusable cache though because the nodes aren't reused19:14
jeblairclarkb: as much as i love afs, that's almost certain to be slower than wget https://mirror/19:15
clarkbfungi: thats true19:15
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clarkbya forgot that we get the local caching from the apache servers which is handy19:15
ianwso, maybe that means we don't try trimming the image list for infra?19:15
fungiianw: yeah, the goal i have is that we find some balance between images that are too large and/or infrequently used such that we can stop embedding them in our images19:15
fungiand then provide those over local afs-backed mirrors19:16
jeblairianw: so what about having the flag permit downloading from the mirror, but not the internet?19:16
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ianwjeblair: yes, it could be some sort of allowed regex i guess19:16
mordredlike a tri-state flag19:17
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mordredtrue, false and maybe19:17
ianwi'm not sure it has a concept of downloading from a mirror at all, at the moment19:17
ianwit lists full image urls19:17
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jeblairyeah, and we definitely don't want to encode our mirrors in that list19:17
ianwit's probably fine to just leave the status quo of downloading all images to be safe then19:18
jeblairmaybe the flag could transform the url in that list to one on the mirror, then devstack would either download it from the mirror successfully, or fail it it was not mirrored.19:18
mordredotoh - I know that local mirrors of things are useful to developers in places that are not texas ... maybe adding the concept of an overridable mirror to devstack woudlnt' be _too_ terrible?19:18
mordredlike "if mirror is defined, fetch this image from $MIRROR/$PATH ; else from $UPSTREAM_URL" - or something?19:19
ianwyes, i can propose that19:20
mordredthen if someone wanted to set up a local apache to just host 5 images they use all the time, it's easy to do without hacking devstack a ton19:20
fungiand the $PATH portion of the url would be the same as the on-disk cache path maybe?19:20
mordredmaybe so, yeah19:20
fungithat way we don't been any fancy url mangling functions19:20
mordredthat would actually make it a nice easy interface19:20
fungiyou could even copy your local devstack cache to a webserver and serve it up without rearranging that way19:20
jeblairfungi: even easier if your local devstack cache is in afs :)19:21
* jeblair high fives clarkb19:21
ianwalright, so i'd propose we do NOT do the project-config change to get reduced set of images -> https://review.openstack.org/377159 and focus on ability to get images from a mirror?19:21
fungiianw: sounds reasonable19:22
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jeblairi thought we still wanted to have some local cache?19:22
jeblairjust more options -- like "used so frequently it should be in the image" vs "used infrequently enough we want to download from mirror"19:23
fungiright, but that's easily combined19:23
clarkbI think we should local cache the "base" small image19:23
clarkbbecause 95% fo jobs use that one19:23
clarkband its relatively tiny19:23
fungi#agreed Any image size reduction solutions should take care to avoid making HTTP mirroring or larger or infrequently-used files impossible.19:24
jeblairi like that, but if we feel that d/l it from the mirror would be sufficiently fast/reliable, i could get on board with attempting the no-image-cache idea...19:24
fungi^ yeah?19:24
jeblair(that was in response to clarkb)19:24
fungioh, typo19:25
openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Agreed object at 0x7fecfadbf710>19:25
fungi#agreed Any image size reduction solutions should take care to avoid making HTTP mirroring of larger or infrequently-used files impossible.19:25
ianwok ... yeah i have some more ideas to move forward with thanks19:25
fungianyone _disagree_ with that statement?19:25
ianwnot me :)19:25
fungithanks for bringing this hairy implementaiton change to the meeting, ian!19:25
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fungi#topic Force gate-{name}-pep8-{node} to build needed wheels (pabelanger)19:26
*** openstack changes topic to "Force gate-{name}-pep8-{node} to build needed wheels (pabelanger) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:26
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/391875 "Force gate-{name}-pep8-{node} to build needed wheels"19:26
fungithanks for hacking on this!19:26
fungii meant to do it months ago, and then as usual got distracted by other fires19:27
fungiit looks more or less like what we talked about on friday19:27
pabelangerSo, this popped into my head again at summit and was able to get it working quickly with an experimental zuul job19:27
clarkbas an alternative, maybe we want to push taht into the projects and they can do --no-use-wheels or whatever the pip flag is?19:27
pabelangerwanted to bring some eyes to the review and may discuss how we are forcing no wheels and the message about why we are doing this and date19:27
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pabelangerclarkb: I think we could do that too19:28
fungiclarkb: yeah, that's definitely an option i considered, but it's a lot of changes and a very lengthy transition19:28
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fungiin theory both could be done in parallel19:28
clarkbfungi: the nice thing about it is the magicalness isn't hidden in the ci system. every local run of pep8 will be the same as in ci19:28
mordredyah - and would make responding to fungi's concern in that review harder in the future19:28
clarkbwhich to me is very important19:28
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mordredthing is - the use of our wheel mirrors is special to our ci system - so working around them seems fair to do in the ci system19:29
clarkbmordred: sort of, aiui the intent is to make it so that somewhere we do installs using sdists19:29
fungianybody remember off the top of your head where we similarly test that you haven't broken sdist'ing? are we doing that in tox.ini or the job definition/scripts?19:29
clarkbwhich isn't a ci mirror things its a can we install our things without wheels19:29
ianwthey're likely to break because they don't have bindep system dependencies for things they are currently getting as wheels, right?19:30
mordredclarkb: yah - the mechanics of that are only important for the ci system itself19:30
clarkbfungi: I think that happened in the run-tox.sh script (or whatever the equivalent is for pep8)19:30
mordredianw: yah19:30
AJaegerfungi, in jenkins/scripts somewhere - let me get dteails19:30
clarkbmordred: thats not true, things break when sdist only19:30
clarkbmordred: and that happens regardless of ci or not19:30
AJaegerfungi: in run-pep8.sh19:30
fungiianw: yeah, there's a semi-frequent race with new dep releases that are sdist-only, where we won't have the wheels built for an hour or so after our pypi mirror updates19:30
mordredtotes. I'm just saying that removing extra-index-url from the /etc/pip.conf that's on our build nodes is an action specific to our ci system19:31
mordredbecacuse our ci system injects wheels into the environment that do not exist for normal users19:31
clarkbmordred: ya we hit it extra hard because of that but I think its a general issue19:31
mordredso doing this actually makes things _more_ similar to how they run for the user on their local machine19:31
fungithis is true19:32
pabelangerI agree with that too19:32
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fungithe reason i asked about our test that sdist works is that i think confirming these things in the same place would be a bit more consistent19:33
clarkbfungi: ya I can get on baord with that19:33
clarkbin which case we can move this awking to run-pep8.sh19:33
pabelangersure, I'll make some changes19:34
fungipabelanger: clarkb: "move" in this case would be after it baked in the job config for a bit (if ever) so that we can easily revert initially without having to rebuild images19:34
clarkbfungi: that sounds like a good idea :)19:35
pabelangerWhat sort of timelines are people thinking about making the change? 30days out?19:35
fungii worry that if the roll-out happens in a script embedded in our images, it makes us less able to respond to mistakes or premature change-over in a timely fashion19:35
AJaegerpabelanger: next 2 weeks?19:36
jeblairmaybe a good time to just move run-pep8.sh into jjb19:36
fungijeblair: agreed. we've talked about how these don't need to be in separate scripts for the most part19:36
pabelangerAJaeger: wfm, nobody objected19:37
fungipabelanger: 30 days seems fine, i'd also be okay with sooner19:37
pabelangerI can also start work on a ML post, get some eyes on it for spelling mistakes19:37
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fungithis is something that shouldn't cause an issue for most projects, and if it does it's because they're already arguably broken. also if they're using bindep.txt then it's a quick patch to fix things for them, and if they're not then odds are our bindep fallback already has all the needed deps covered anyway19:38
clarkbor there is some really subtle bug where wheels work and sdists don't19:38
clarkbbut cases of that seem far less common19:38
ianwyeah, sounds like a real win for keeping it real with bindep.txt19:39
fungi*cough* pandas *cough*19:39
clarkbfungi: :)19:39
fungithough they fixed that in 1.19.1 after much 'splainin19:39
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fungi#agreed Move forward filtering pip.conf to remove wheel mirrors for pep8 jobs in two weeks; optionally move run-pep8.sh into the calling JJB builder macro.19:41
fungi^ any disagreements on that?19:41
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pabelangernone from me19:41
pabelangerthanks for the help19:42
clarkbnope sounds good19:42
fungipabelanger: presumably just an e-mail announcing this to the openstack-dev ml now and a reminder before we merge teh change will be sufficient?19:42
pabelangerfungi: ++19:42
fungipabelanger: you want to do the announcing too?19:42
pabelangerfungi: sure, I'll get something into etherpad first19:42
ianwi wonder if we could tell people how to test with a debootstrap or something19:42
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fungi#action pabelanger announce upcoming wheel-less pep8 job transition to openstack-dev ml19:43
fungiianw: yeah... i was pondering that as well. testing in a chroot is certainly a fairly clean way to go about it but instructions could get lengthy19:43
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fungialternatively we could try to figure out how to pre-test it (add that experimental job to a bunch of projects and make dummy changes in them?)19:44
fungiwith the expectation that any pre-testing we do is sure to be incomplete19:45
fungithis is one place zuul v3 would make things so much simpler19:45
fungiprojects who are worried about it could just propose a change running that modified job and see what happens19:45
clarkbyou can also just run it locally using the infra images...19:46
* clarkb has done a ton of this with the xenial stuff19:46
fungithis is true, especially if we have a good walkthrough of using our dib elements19:46
clarkbthe build image script should just work currently19:47
fungiwhich is mostly just running that script in project-config19:47
clarkbbut I can double check that19:47
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fungimore like should we be recommending not pre-caching all the repos and stuff (does the script do that automatically)? and at least pointers for how to use the resulting image (loopback mount is likely fine in this particular case?)19:47
clarkbthe script should make you a 1:1 to what nodepool uses but we could modify it to be more minimal by default19:48
clarkbwith a toggle to add in the other elements19:48
ianwi don't think you can really stop the precaching19:48
clarkbianw: you can if you remove that element from the build, and since zuul-cloner knows how to work without a cache it should mostly just work19:49
clarkband result in much smaller images19:49
fungiwe could stand to refactor our elements to avoid pre-caching git repos, distro packages, devstack files, et cetera19:49
clarkbfungi: I think we already have it split out to handle that19:49
fungiwhich we've probably already at least mostly done19:49
ianwclarkb: yeah, but openstack-repos gets dragged in19:50
AJaegerclarkb: not yet - see https://review.openstack.org/32248719:50
clarkbright you can turn it all on or all off is what I mean to say19:50
ianwby cache-devstack, puppet, etc19:50
AJaegerI would appreciate some review of that one ^ - I wasn't sure whether that's beneficial or not19:50
clarkband thats already supported19:50
clarkbyou just remove the elements that do the caching19:50
fungialso we seem to be veering straight toward our last topic for the day...19:50
fungi#topic Open discussion19:50
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)"19:50
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jeblairdoes anyone know of work in progress to run a second openstack bot since we hit our channel limit?19:51
AJaegerjeblair: yeah - let me find a change...19:51
fungigerritbot presumably?19:52
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AJaegerjeblair: https://review.openstack.org/355588 - but this needs more work and looks abandoned ;(19:52
fungior have we hit the limit with meetbot now as well?19:52
AJaegerI assume gerritbot - 355588 is for gerritbot19:52
clarkbrelated to caching things, what do people think about not caching the debian package repos until they no longer happen to be complete forks of all our repos19:52
jeblairhuh, seems like we should hit the limit for both at the same time19:52
jeblairbkero: are you still working on that ^?19:53
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fungifewer teams moved to channel logging. gerrit event updates have been more pupular for longer19:53
fungipopular too19:53
AJaegerjeblair: not every channel that uses gerritbot uses meetbot as well. But yes, meetbot will be next ;)19:53
fungiyep, i haven't counted but wouldn't be surprised to hit it soon if we haven't already19:54
ianwclarkb: there is a heck of a lot of them ...19:55
jeblairclarkb: is there a plan for them not to be forks?19:55
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clarkbjeblair: sort of, in debian session last week the ubuntu folk were pretty adamant that their system of not making it a complete fork was great19:55
AJaegerfungi, jeblair 110 currently setup for meetbot if I counted correctly19:56
clarkband they basiaclly said we should do that or something similar19:56
clarkbneed zigo to come around to it19:56
fungioh, before next week i'll have the ocata cycle artifact signing key generated and ready for people to confirm/sign19:56
fungi#action fungi generate and sign ocata cycle signing key19:56
fungimeant to do it on friday but my brain was already turning to mush19:56
clarkbmine is still mush19:56
pabelangerclarkb: I still think ubuntu carries tarballs in tree19:56
AJaegerclarkb: yeah, not caching the deb repos looks fine to me.19:56
clarkbpabelanger: ya but they are point int time with a few of their things19:57
clarkbpabelanger: its not the 1GB of nova history or whatever it is19:57
clarkbwhich is what I think jamespage was trying to explain, you have much smaller repos19:57
pabelangerbut, they do contain some forked code, just less of it19:57
clarkbthe other alternative is the overlay thing you talked about19:57
fungiclarkb: is that to reduce the disk pressure on nodepool-builder or the image upload times? or just on principle?19:57
clarkbfungi: all of the above? :)19:57
clarkbfungi: its mostly to keep our images as small as possible because upload time is crazy right now19:58
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clarkband also build times are related to hygiene in the git repo cache19:58
AJaegerthat debian etherpad is not listed at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Design_Summit/Ocata/Etherpads ;(19:58
fungioh! right, we're caching those on all our repos right now19:58
fungier, on all our images19:58
fungiyes to brain still being mush19:58
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fungiwe're out of time--thanks everyone!20:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Nov  1 20:00:06 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-11-01-19.03.html20:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-11-01-19.03.txt20:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-11-01-19.03.log.html20:00
* EmilienM waves on ttx20:00
ttxanyone around for the TC meeting ?20:00
fungi(clearly i'm around)20:00
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ttxmtreinish & stevemar are excused20:00
ttxdhellmann, dims, flaper87, johnthetubaguy, mordred, sdague, thingee: around ?20:01
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ttxlet's see if we can reach quorum so close to summit20:01
fungii saw mordred internetting mere moments ago20:01
ttxI think that makes 720:01
ttx#startmeeting tc20:01
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openstackMeeting started Tue Nov  1 20:01:41 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"20:01
* mordred has the internets20:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'20:01
ttxHi everyone,20:01
mtreinishttx: I'm excused?20:01
ttxmtreinish: oh, I thought you said you wouldn't be attending this one20:02
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* jroll pokes his head in20:02
dimshey mtreinish. missed you at the summit20:02
ttxat least you're still on the apologies for absence on https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee20:02
mtreinishoh, I forgot to remove myself20:02
ttxmtreinish: welcome!20:02
mtreinishI was on vacation the past couple weeks20:02
thingeemtreinish yeah I had to announce "just fungi" in the lightning talks.20:02
ttxSince it was unclear that we would get enough people around, I focused of summit feedback and previously-submitted issues:20:03
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee20:03
ttx(remember to use #info #idea and #link liberally to make for a more readable summary)20:03
mtreinishdims: yeah, I'm upset I wasn't able to make it to BCN20:03
ttx#topic Barcelona feedback20:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Barcelona feedback (Meeting topic: tc)"20:03
ttx* General feedback20:03
ttxWas great seeing almost everyone last week20:03
ttxPersonally I wish I could have spent more time with teams but Summit week is not getting better in terms of conflicts20:03
ttxSo I'm looking forward to the PTG now20:04
dhellmannpretty soon we'll all have to move into the same airbnb together20:04
ttxAny other general feedback before we move on to discussing BoD+TC+UC meeting ?20:04
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* Rockyg shoots a wadded up openStack summit badge at jroll's head20:04
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* jroll throws a cough drop back at Rockyg20:05
fungiyeah, i normally don't present at the main conference, but missing most of a day of x-proj sessions to attend keynote rehearsals on tuesday taught me the pain of those who do20:05
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ttxok, moving on, we can comment more in open discussion at the end20:05
ttx* Following up on the BoD+TC+UC meeting20:05
ttxWe discussed several topics there, I think we have a number of action items20:06
ttxFor example it would be good to estimate which teams will be struggling in Ocata due to developer attrition20:06
ttxdhellmann and myself are working on that20:06
ttxWe also identified the need of encouraging users of OpenStack to directly support development20:06
ttxwhich would create a pretty virtuous circle...20:06
RockygThanks for that ttx and dhellmann20:06
amrithdhellmann, ttx, I'd like to speak with you about that (asking for a friend).20:06
EmilienMis there an etherpad we could contribute for that?20:06
ttxThe trick being they can't hire dozens of them, so we want to make sure those few get a good experience contributing20:07
ttxEmilienM: on the dev attrition ? I'd rather collect data semi-anonymously20:07
EmilienMttx: fair enough20:07
dhellmannEmilienM : I've been collecting data quietly. You can email me directly, if you like.20:07
EmilienMdhellmann: I will20:07
fungii agree, the force that keeps most free software projects running long-term is their users becoming active developers20:07
dhellmannfungi : ++20:07
smcginnisHave we ever thought of having an "intro to contiributing" at the ops midcycle?20:08
dimsdhellmann : email you with list of projects that i think will be affected?20:08
ttxsmcginnis: sounds like a good idea20:08
dhellmanndims : yes, please send any data you have. We'll also be contacting PTLs directly.20:08
dimsack dhellmann20:08
amrithan interesting twist ... at the ops midcycle ...20:08
fungismcginnis: could basically just do a day of "upstream university" the day before, like we've done at summits the past couple years?20:08
smcginnisfungi: +120:08
fungiseems like it should be reasonably portable20:09
smcginnisfungi: They would have a little different take on some of it, but it could be tailored to fit their perspective.20:09
ttxfungi: note that we'll have upstream recruitment classrooms in future summits (as part of the "academy")20:09
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fungiwell, i know the uu crowd are wanting to also be able to do on-site training for large contributor companies as well, so presumably are getting ready for audiences to vary pretty widely20:09
ttxprobably more project teams doing a deep dive, but could be generalist too20:09
Rockygif nothing else there could be a hot bugfix training session..20:10
ttxOn the "other communities" engagement, we said it would be great to be a bit more formal about it20:10
ttxlike knowing who is involved where and get regular reports from those "ambassadors"20:10
diablo_rojofungi: ildikov and I were just talking about doing a mini upstream with OSD's this morning20:10
fungidiablo_rojo: ildikov: that's excellent20:10
ttxFinally we discussed making sure we get critical mass of developers in both PTG and Summit/forum20:11
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ttxwhich will likely require some more discussion/education20:11
dhellmannthere's still a surprising amount of confusion about that20:11
amrithdims, maybe we can repurpose the talk we gave at BU20:11
dimsamrith : +120:11
ttxdhellmann: yes, at some point it feels like to much communication kills the message20:11
Rockygdhellmann, lots in the community learn by example, so first ones will be critical20:11
ttxAfter that meeting it was also pretty clear that we should communicate a bit more with board members and the community at large about recent decisions we made20:12
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ttxAt this stage it is too easy to interpret (or spin) the Swift/Go decision into "the TC doesn't want Go", or "the TC doesn't want innovation/competition"20:12
cdentdhellmann: how much of the confusion is actually fear about not being able to go because of budgetary concerns?20:12
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ttxcdent: the two are tied, definitely20:12
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dhellmannhmm, I know they're both out there but I didn't see them as tied.20:13
amrith#action [dims, amrith] repurpose talk from BU for general consumption as a "intro to contributing" (H/T: smcginnis)20:13
ttxSo I think we'll have to be clearer on the way forward -- what does it take for "OpenStack" to adopt other languages or technologies20:13
ttxSeveral of us plan to write blogposts to help with that20:13
smcginniscdent: +120:13
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ildikovttx: I would also be interested in figuring out the "other communities' engagement" things, like OPNFV for instance and help them out where we can, joint trainings for instance, etc.20:13
dhellmannttx: didn't we also get a volunteer to start writing up something in the governance repo when we talked last week?20:13
ttxWe'll discuss the UC part in a minute, any other feedback on the Board+TC+UC meeting ?20:13
ttxdhellmann: ISTR someone volunteering for something yes20:14
ttxit's all a bit fuzzy20:14
dhellmannwas that flaper87?20:14
ttxdhellmann: good bet, he always volunteers for things20:14
dhellmannand he's not here, so let's put him down for it20:15
ttxWondering if that wasn't Emilien though20:15
dimsildikov : i talked a bit in the meeting about what some of us do with kubernetes community20:15
dhellmannoh, maybe it was EmilienM20:15
EmilienMI can take it and work with Flavio20:15
dhellmanncool, thanks20:15
ttxdims/ildikov: the embassy / ambassador analogy was good there20:15
ildikovdims: cool, that sounds great too, it would be good to catch up on that later if you have some time!20:15
dimsildikov : ack sounds good20:16
ttx* An elected UC20:16
ildikovttx: +120:16
ttxDuring that same meeting the UC presented their plans to get to a proper mandate in the bylaws and an elected committee early 201720:16
ildikovdims: cool, tnx!20:16
fungiyes, mordred's political analogies were spot on20:16
EmilienM#action EmilienM & flaper87 to start writing up in governance repo about TC thoughts during board+tc+uc meeting20:16
ttxFrom that discussion it was clear to me that the two bodies will have more legitimacy and clearer boundaries if the electorate of one is not included in the other20:16
ttxWe do want to encourage as much overlap as we can between the two, but not inclusion IMHO20:16
fungiwell, not explicitly included at least20:17
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/38189420:17
mtreinishttx: that makes sense to me20:17
ttxSo I think the UC is moving fast enough (and we have enough overlap between electorates) that we don't need that one ?20:17
dimsttx : folks can end up in both, just won't get automatic privileges in the other if they are part of one20:17
mtreinishand kinda how I assumed it was gonna work anyway (being absent from the discussions)20:17
dhellmannyes, I'm glad to see this proposal moving forward with so much support20:17
fungithough 381894 made an excellent straw-man alternative20:18
ttxyea, that was useful to frame the discussion20:18
ttxmordred: want to defend it, or abandon it ?20:18
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mordredttx: I'll just abandon it20:20
ttx* Outcome of the proprietary drivers discussion20:20
ttxAnother thing we discussed in cross-project sessions which has TC implications was the proprietary drivers line20:20
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ttxThere is a thread now to discuss it:20:20
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ttx#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-October/106432.html20:20
ttxI think we can comment there and discuss it in a future meeting20:21
ttxAnything else re: Barcelona ?20:21
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dimsthanks to mordred to setup the dinner (though i had to drop off at the last minute!)20:21
EmilienMmordred: ++ thx20:22
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dhellmannttx: we also discussed setting up a special category of teams for driver-only projects. I'm interested in helping to work on that language. I think fungi said he was, too?20:22
fungiyes, count me in when the time comes to discuss20:23
mordredmy pleasure! I thuoght it was really great to get to see humans and talk to their faces20:23
ttxok, moving on!20:23
fungii'd love to pitch in on the mechanics and summary documentation around whatever we arrive at20:23
ttx#topic Overdue update of mission statement in charter20:23
*** openstack changes topic to "Overdue update of mission statement in charter (Meeting topic: tc)"20:23
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/38961120:23
ttxRealized recently we updated the mission statement in the charter to an intermediary version instead of the final20:23
ttxSo this fixes it20:23
ttxLooks like it's good to go20:24
ttxyes, "oops"20:24
ttx#topic Update QA's extra-atc20:24
*** openstack changes topic to "Update QA's extra-atc (Meeting topic: tc)"20:24
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/38932420:24
ttxThis one renews Scott Moser's ATC status20:24
ttxLooks like it's also good to go20:25
ttx"Narwhal, narwhal"20:25
dhellmannthat was a response to my cleanup patch: https://review.openstack.org/38817020:25
ttx#topic Tighten up language in "Contribution Is Our Currency"20:25
*** openstack changes topic to "Tighten up language in "Contribution Is Our Currency" (Meeting topic: tc)"20:25
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/38737020:26
ttxI think this is a good incremental improvement...20:26
ttxWould love to have mtreinish's opinion on it though, since he is the original author20:26
ttxchecking this doesn't denature his original goal20:27
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* ttx checks if that is a verb in english20:27
anteayait is20:27
mtreinishttx: I think that is a good reword. It gives off the same vibe I was looking for in the original20:27
ttxYou borrowed so many words from French that I'm sometimes lost20:27
dimswhoa, that's new one for me :)20:28
ttxmtreinish: Cool!20:28
ttxSo I think it is good to go20:28
ttxLast-minute comments/objections ?20:28
mtreinishttx: all I was looking for with that was that was basically to say things don't happen top down, some one still needs to push a patch to get something done20:28
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ttxok then, approved20:29
ttxcdent: many thanks20:30
cdentmy pleasure20:30
ttx#topic Add "Assume Good Faith" to OpenStack principles20:30
*** openstack changes topic to "Add "Assume Good Faith" to OpenStack principles (Meeting topic: tc)"20:30
dims++ thanks cdent20:30
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/36559020:30
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ttxWe don't have flaper87 around to defend it20:30
ttxI like the new wording on this one. Still slightly torn on adding behavior guidelines to a principles document (vs. CoC)20:30
fungii need convincing on this one. it doesn't seem at all specific to the openstack community20:30
ttxBut then last week showed how much of a trust issue there is in some corners of OpenStack, so maybe that can't hurt20:30
ttxI'm +020:30
fungiit strikes me as general advice for participating in a culturally-diverse organization20:31
anteayais this patch going to fix an existing trust issue?20:31
thingeeI also think it's wrong for the CoC to state that people should assume good faith20:31
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fungii seriously doubt this is a situation we're going to improve with messaging. it really only happens organically through example20:32
ttxAny other opinion ?20:33
fungiand we're already pretty good in this regard. on our mailing lists i don't see anything close to the rants and flame wars typical to lkml or debian-devel, for example20:33
EmilienMI agree actions would actually make this change happen, eg: when we add/remove projects from OpenStack -etc20:34
EmilienMfungi: true, our ML is pretty clean on this side.20:34
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fungiwell, i think it really happens by people seeing one another make mistakes in public and then apologize for the misunderstanding20:35
ttxThis one is struggling a bit to get people excited about it20:35
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dhellmannyeah, I want people to do this but I don't know if this is the approach to ensure it happens20:35
ttxand it feels like to make it to a "principle" we'd need to feel more strongly about it20:35
ttxNot sure we want a bunch or "yeah, whatever" principles20:36
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fungiand if we get too much nonspecific advice in this document, it loses its impact20:36
EmilienMwell, documenting it is still a good first iteration20:36
ttxIt's probably better to rediscuss it with flaper87 around20:36
persiaOn the other hand, some of what some of us may consider nonspecific advice may be new and interesting to those from other corners of the "open source community"20:36
ttxso let's table it a bit. No urgency20:36
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ttx#topic Open discussion20:37
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)"20:37
ttxWe have a bunch of important topics for next week20:37
dhellmannmaybe this is less a principle and something we should put into a "how to communicate successfully" section of the project team guide20:38
mugsie_dhellmann: ++20:38
fungii could be convinced of that20:38
ttxWe'll close the TC/PTL election timeframe discussion -- I'll send a new email to remind PTLs to express their opinion20:38
ttxdhellmann: ++20:38
dimsdhellmann : right, this came up in the election thread too (http://markmail.org/message/srbbu7pxnfire3yq) and we were able to uphold good faith there20:38
EmilienMttx: I'll update Wiki but I'm on vacations the next 2 weeks. I'll do my best to attend TC meeting but in case I can't do it, Doug or Flavio will be my proxies.20:38
ttxEmilienM: sounds good20:38
anteayadhellmann: then I'd encourage the route of discuss differences with people rather than make assumptions about them20:38
Rockyg"Community based on trust and good faith" is more a definition of the openstack community than a principle20:38
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dhellmannanteaya : sure.20:39
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anteayadhellmann: thanks20:39
ttxmordred: We'll have Tricircle on the agenda next week... will you be around ? Since you followed them20:39
dimsAnyone interested in "create a "new project" checklist for things that projects need to do when they join the big tent", i picked up a TODO in the release team meeting?20:39
ttxdhellmann: Should we defer "Add networking-cisco back into the Big Tent" until you have a proposal up for driver-only teams ?20:39
EmilienMdims: yes, please20:39
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dimsEmilienM : ack, i'll ping you when i get started on that :)20:39
EmilienMmtreinish: removing you from absence section in Wiki20:39
fungidims: like as a governance-oriented companion to our more technical process-oriented primer?20:39
EmilienMdims: I did this process many times, I think I can help there.20:40
dhellmannttx: yes, please. I want to vote yes, but we can't with our current rules and I'd rather not have them get a "no" then a "try again!"20:40
mtreinishEmilienM: ok, sure thanks20:40
dimsfungi : some details here (https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ocata-relmgt-plan Line 148)20:40
dimsfungi : y for governance repo20:40
ttx#action ttx to defer networking-cisco to after dhellmann proposed a driver-only team resolution20:40
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fungidims: oh, awesome. i was floating back and forth between infra and other rooms so missed that discussion. thanks!20:41
ttxBTW We are starting to see "goals acknowledgement" changes being posted. How do you want those approved ?20:41
ttxShould we use our usual "lazy consensus" rule ? I.e. one week without -1 is good enough ?20:41
dhellmannttx: we called that out specifically in the house rules document somewhere20:41
dimsttx : +120:41
dhellmann#link http://governance.openstack.org/reference/house-rules.html#goal-updates-from-ptls20:41
fungiyeah, i thought i remembered seeing it there20:41
ttxoooh, shiny20:41
fungigranted, i only read that because it was in my "tc orientation packet"20:42
EmilienMdims: sure thing, email is best for me20:42
ttxI wasn't in the upgrade cross-project workshop but it feels like we should now proceed on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/372686/ ?20:42
dimsEmilienM : yep, will add you and fungi20:42
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fungi372686 seems noncontentious, at least on the surface20:44
ttxfungi: we wanted to nail down testing first20:44
mtreinishttx: iirc the blocker for 372686 is that there is no method for verifying that. We need testing set up first before we can do that20:44
EmilienMttx: +1 for lazy consensus on this one20:44
mtreinishheh, I should type faster :)20:45
ttxAbout Barcelona: I found the cross-project workshops more useful than usual. Makes me think we might want to keep a fishbowl room at the PTG to facilitate inter-project discussions (think: the review scaling discussion)20:45
fungioh, thanks ttx, mtreinish20:45
dimsttx : the SWG session went well too i thought20:45
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dhellmannttx: ++20:45
smcginnisttx: +120:45
EmilienMttx: well, I wished some of cross-project sessions would be less nova-centralized20:45
ttxSomething we could book for an ad-hoc discussion20:45
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jrollttx: +1 on x-project workshops being super useful20:46
cdentEmilienM: ++20:46
fungiEmilienM: those weren't really _supposed_ to be entirely nova-specific, but they served as a primary example20:46
ttxthe trick being to not cross the line with stuff that would require all the community being present20:46
EmilienMfungi: I wish we could have talked more about other projects in general. Nova seems to have a lot of problems that other projects don't seem to have20:47
dimsright, kudos to mriedem to open up the nova team to the microscope20:47
fungiEmilienM: also possible that nova is having problems other projects haven't hit _yet_ due to being one of the earliest and largest20:47
mriedemi tried to get other project input20:47
ttxEmilienM: yes at one point it turned nova-specific, but the first part was pretty inclusive20:47
mriedemi took away that it's not just a problem for nova20:47
EmilienMcool, just giving feedback20:47
mriedembut amplified given the size20:48
jrollmriedem: ++20:48
dims++ mriedem20:48
dhellmannmriedem : yeah, that's more or less what I got, too20:48
fungiseemed like issues where nova is our canary in the coal mine20:48
EmilienMmriedem: thx for leading this session btw20:48
ttxit was also very useful to have all those projects in the room to get their advice/input/solutions20:48
dhellmannat least we learned that no one is keeping the answer to this problem a secret from other teams :-)20:48
dimsfungi : nova and neutron :)20:48
dimsdhellmann : hahaha20:48
EmilienMttx: right, it was useful20:48
ttxok... Anything else, anyone ?20:49
ildikovdims: amrith: if you would like to have some brainstorming about the 'How to contribute' session for the Ops mid-cycle we're quite in the middle of these with diablo_rojo due to our Upstream training assignments recently20:49
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amrithhello ...20:49
ildikovalso if anyone would be interested in shorter training version before in connection to the OSD events please reach out to either of us :)20:49
smcginnisIs there still a separate ops midcycle? If so, is there a date set?20:49
dimsack ildikov20:49
amrithildikov, ack20:49
fungii got from the ops ml that they're still working on scheduling20:49
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fungismcginnis: ^20:50
ildikovit would be great if we could connect local development communities with newcomers, who are interested20:50
smcginnisfungi: tx20:50
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dougwigmriedem: neutron had similar issues, we just traded them for different issues.20:50
dhellmannildikov : will that info be available for local meetups, too? my group in ATL is interested in something like this.20:50
ildikovseveral people have time zone issues and find people from whom they can ask to get started, etc.20:50
EmilienMdougwig: nicely said ;-)20:51
ildikovdhellmann: we are developing the content in the open, having weekly meetings with the training guides team20:51
dimsnice ildikov !20:51
dhellmannildikov : excellent, I'll look for that20:51
ildikovdhellmann: so if you know people/areas interested I think we could work together to have parts delivered people are interested at20:51
anteayasmcginnis: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-operators/2016-October/011866.html20:51
fungiyeah, the training guides team are doing an excellent job of being transparent with all this20:51
smcginnisanteaya: ty20:51
EmilienMOSD = OpenStack Days for the record (I had to google it)20:52
ttxAlright, if we have nothing else, let's get 5 minutes of our lives back20:52
ttxwe might need those later20:52
anteayaEmilienM: thanks, I also didn't know20:52
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ildikovEmilienM: tnx! :)20:52
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dhellmannttx: ++20:53
dimsaha EmilienM20:53
ttxThanks everyone! Take it easy this week :)20:53
EmilienMttx: thanks for chairing!20:53
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:53
openstackMeeting ended Tue Nov  1 20:53:39 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:53
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-11-01-20.01.html20:53
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openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-11-01-20.01.txt20:53
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-11-01-20.01.log.html20:53
fungiEmilienM: dims: so many of the foundation staff are wrapped up in the osd circuit i think they forget they may need to expand that acronym20:54
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fungithe events tend to not be very upstream dev focused, which is why a lot (most?) of our dev community don't know they exist20:55
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persiaBetter advertisement of the OSDs may also be useful.  I'm often surprised by them (and find myself far away from where they are located)20:55
EmilienMfungi: I went to some of them when I was living in Europe. They are very useful.20:56
mugsie_They are, but can be sales events for sponsors20:56
fungigood to know! i recall asking an organizer whether i should be extending a planned trip to attend one, and was told "expect it to mostly be people in suits"20:56
mugsie_Ireland's was great - but we have a huge amount of devs in Ireland (especially relative to our size) bit there was very few dev talks20:57
diablo_rojofungi: Some are better than others. I liked the OSD East one they held in NY.20:57
RockygSome days are better than otthers.  worth extending trip if it's one of the good ones.20:57
diablo_rojoRockyg: jinx :)20:57
fungiheh, thanks20:57
Rockyg++ on the NYC one.20:57
dhellmannfungi : we had a good hallway track at the one in NYC this summer.20:57
fungii'll keep that in mind20:57
diablo_rojodhellmann +120:57
Rockygdiablo_rojo, :P20:58
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Rockygdiablo_rojo, s/:P ;P20:58
diablo_rojoHa ha :)20:59
Rockygit feels like Monday again.20:59
diablo_rojoIf I only knew what day it actually was20:59
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zioprotois the meeting here for scientific working group ?21:00
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* dfflanders secretly wishes fungi would be a mentor at a hackaathon someday ;-)21:01
zioprotob1airo: good night :) here is 22:00 :)21:01
b1airozioproto, honestly i'm so jetlagged i have no idea what time my body is on21:01
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dfflandersblairo sounds like you need a squash sesh ;-)21:02
oneswigI think we are ready - take it away mr music?21:02
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b1airo#startmeeting scientific_wg21:02
martialhello all21:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Nov  1 21:02:48 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is b1airo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)"21:02
priteauGood morning / evening everyone21:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'scientific_wg'21:02
oneswigGood afternoon anyone?21:03
b1airo#chair oneswig21:03
openstackCurrent chairs: b1airo oneswig21:03
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b1airo#chair martial21:03
openstackCurrent chairs: b1airo martial oneswig21:03
oneswig#link agenda for today https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Scientific_working_group#IRC_Meeting_November_1st_201621:03
zioprotooneswig is stig ?21:03
zioprotohere is saverio21:03
b1airoand agenda dump is:21:04
b1airoSelection of New Activity Areas for Ocata Cycle21:04
b1airoBrainstorm of 'Forum' session proposals for Boston21:04
b1airoWG Picks from the Summit21:04
b1airoDeveloper sessions21:04
b1airoVideo Archive21:04
b1airoPlans for Supercomputing 201621:04
b1airoEvening social?21:04
b1airoSuperuser blog post?21:04
oneswig#topic new activity areas for ocata21:04
*** openstack changes topic to "new activity areas for ocata (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)"21:04
oneswigWell, we had a good session on this at the summit21:05
b1airoif you can check / add your details to the scientific-wg rolodex that'd be great -21:05
b1airo#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/scientific-wg-rolodex21:05
oneswigSee the etherpad link - line 39 onwards - https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/scientific-wg-barcelona-agenda21:05
martialoneswig: it sure was a busy meeting (we need a bigger room :) )21:05
oneswigPerhaps we do - but nobody has said we need a better view21:06
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oneswigI think we should pick four activities to focus on - seemed like about the right number.  Any view on that?21:06
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martialshould we go by number of people interested ?21:07
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b1airore. room / logistics etc, i think next time we should try for a double session for the meeting21:07
oneswigIdentity federation was a popular choice, clearly21:08
dfflandersoneswig, key is having people willing to hold up their hand to play lead on each activity imho21:08
oneswigb1airo: longer, rather than wider, I like it21:08
oneswigmakes sense21:08
martialoneswig Scientific Datasets21:08
priteauoneswig: big data processing and scientific datasets are two main topics, and they could possibly be under the same umbrella21:08
zioprotoI am interested in both Identity Federation and Scientific Datasets21:08
oneswigmartial: can you elaborate on what's involved there?21:08
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martialand GPGPU21:09
martialthose were the top three it seems21:09
b1airoi think that's the bring the compute to the data idea, oneswig21:09
b1airoand especially for large science clouds having interesting datasets easily accessible brings users21:09
oneswigso more than a directory of who hosts what data then? Something automated21:09
martialoneswig: was just listing the top topics from the etherpad21:10
oneswigmartial: ah ok21:10
b1airoyeah i have no idea what practices are out there today - i guess that's where we'd start21:10
dfflandershttp://docs.aws.amazon.com/AWSEC2/latest/UserGuide/using-public-data-sets.html <-- thoughts martial21:10
martialoneswig: the subtitle was "is anyone hosting or consuming Scientific Datasets with Openstack ?"21:10
zioprotomartial: I am21:10
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zioprotoso the idea is that Amazon is doing this21:10
zioprotowe want to host datasets21:10
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zioprotootherwise users will go away to the amazon cloud21:11
zioprotoI am hosting the Common Crowl dataset (part of it 30Tb)21:11
b1airoyes i'm sure we're all consuming them, but whether our clouds are hosting them in an accessible manner is another question, and then what are the choices/best-practices for hosting/moving/sharing21:11
oneswigzioproto: do you know how they are exposed in AWS?21:11
zioprotooneswig: yes with S321:11
oneswigzioproto: objects then - interesting21:11
zioprotothat is why amazon implements the Hadoop connector to S321:11
b1airothis would be a nice topic for engaging with NRENs too i suspect21:12
martialthe page zioproto shared lists the information and datatypes available on S321:12
zioprotob1airo: yes NREN are very interested21:12
oneswigzioproto: do you envisage a port to swift of the same?  I assume more is needed wrt metadata?21:12
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zioprotoI tested also swift21:13
zioprotobut the Hadoop connector for swift is buggy21:13
dfflandersjohn dickinson (PTL of Swift) would be interested in this21:13
zioprotocant work with files bigger than 5Gb21:13
martial(sorry dfflanders)21:13
zioprotothere is a open bug for that in openstack sahara21:13
zioprotoso NRENs got started this about SCientific Dataset collaboration #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/10YVe3Ex0tvR6p12t8kxhwgm_f2Ws_mMX7_w_AMm_BwM/edit?usp=sharing21:14
seattleplusNote that this is where SwiftOnFile comes into play21:14
oneswigzioproto: assume you've added your vote to it?21:14
zioprotowhere do I have to add the vote ?21:14
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martialzioproto https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/scientific-wg-barcelona-agenda21:14
martialzioproto line 11221:14
oneswigzioproto: comment, add yourself as a watcher, etc.21:14
zioprotosahara bug #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/sahara/+bug/159366321:15
openstackLaunchpad bug 1593663 in Sahara "[hadoop-swift] Cannot access Swift Static Large Objects" [High,Confirmed]21:15
seattleplusOtherwise, any large data stored in Swift requires manual chunking21:15
oneswigOh, you filed it.  Counts as interest I guess...21:15
zioprotooneswig: right I wrote that stuff21:15
* dfflanders thinks this would be a great poster for Forum in Boston to get PTLs of Sahara and Swift to meet this use case.21:16
notmynamemy irc client is going crazy over here21:16
zioprotoI was at the Sahara design session21:16
oneswigsounds good to me - and a good activity area21:16
zioprotothere was not a lot of enthusiasm around fixing this bug21:16
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oneswighello notmyname21:16
dfflanderslol popular notmyname21:17
notmynamehow can I help?21:17
clarkbit is filed against sahara but it looks like hadoop is what is actually failing?21:17
clarkbshould that bug be pushed upstream to hadoop?21:17
dfflanderswelcome John :)21:17
b1airohi John, thanks for watching!21:17
zioprotothere is a paternity problem about this swiftfs hadoop code, now it is maintained in Sahara... but should be a Apache Hadoop thing ?21:17
priteauWe have some users interested by the Swift+Hadoop use case in Chameleon as well, I know we checked out a few solutions at some points, I will try to share what we've learned21:18
martialthanks priteau21:18
zioprotoclarkb: see here https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/sahara-ocata-edp21:18
zioprotoat the end they talk about this bug21:18
seattleplusI would argue it depends on how often you want to access the common dataset21:19
zioprotopriteau: what is Chameleon ?21:19
seattleplusIf its >1, then there is great benefit to just copying the data out of Swift21:19
oneswigDoes this mean Sahara does not currently get used for objects of this size?21:19
b1aironotmyname, we were just discussing public scientific dataset hosting for openstack clouds and related to that hadoop+sahara - apparently there is a problematic bug in sahara with regard to large objects:  #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/sahara/+bug/159366321:19
openstackLaunchpad bug 1593663 in Sahara "[hadoop-swift] Cannot access Swift Static Large Objects" [High,Confirmed]21:19
clarkbzioproto: oh if sahara maintains it then you are probably fine. I was going off of the "error is emitted by hadoop process" in that bug21:19
priteauzioproto: testbed for cloud computing research built with OpenStack (http://www.chameleoncloud.org)21:19
dfflandersChameleon is NSF funded baremetal as a service for CS researchers in the USA21:19
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zioprotoseattleplus: if the dataset is 200Tb you want to consume it directly from object storage without holding another copy21:19
priteauWhat is the best way to share knowledge on this topic? etherpad or wiki page?21:20
b1airowe were just musing that Swift folks would be interested in this general data hosting topic and may be able to help move any related technical issues21:20
seattlepluszioproto: Well…again, if it takes 10x longer to process, then that isn’t always true21:20
zioprotoseattleplus: agreed !!!21:20
dfflanders+1 priteau21:21
arcimboldoit's a matter of *how* you download it. Also swiftfs downloads it in a sense21:21
notmynameb1airo: yes, absolutely!21:21
zioprotoseattleplus: object storage is slow if you have to list many objects in the bucket, is not trivial how to organize the data21:21
dfflanderspriteau, mt two pence = etherpad21:21
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dfflanderschairs, do we see an action coming from this, or potentially a lead who can take this forward?21:22
oneswigIf an activity area is a combination of a goal and overcoming obstacles, we've got a great case here21:22
b1airopriteau, dfflanders - agreed, etherpad for now until we have something written up21:22
zioprotoetherpad is good to me21:22
dfflanders+1 oneswig21:22
b1airooneswig, +1 this looks like a good topic21:22
b1airothere's lots of little areas inside it as well, e.g., object store design for large clouds etc21:23
oneswigSo that seems like 2 winners discussed so far - this and identity federation.  What shall we cover next, before we get on to assigning leads?21:23
zioprotoat switch we published a demo tutorial how to consume data with Hadoop from swiftfs #link https://github.com/switch-ch/hadoop-swift-tutorial21:23
* dfflanders looks at etherpad from barcelona21:24
oneswigI had one to propose based on discussions outside of the meeting - telemetry and monitoring.  Any interest in that?21:24
zioprotooneswig: but that stuff is a bit generic and not really focus on 'scientific wg', am I right ?21:25
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arcimboldooneswig, +121:25
b1airooneswig, sounds like one for martial21:25
oneswigI have an interest in connecting high-resolution telemetry data to workload manager data21:25
oneswigWhich works its way onto our territory21:25
zioprotook I think I did misunderstood the topic21:25
oneswigBut you're right, it's a problem on everyone's minds in general21:25
dfflandersoneswig if not immediate interest here I would think this would be worth circulating via sceintific-wg rolodex ?21:26
b1airodfflanders, mailing list perhaps21:26
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b1airoprefer not to direct email people unsolicited21:27
oneswigdfflanders: I'm hesitant to mail a massive distribution too often - keep the powder dry for whne you really need it21:27
dfflanderstimecheck = half way done21:27
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dfflandersoneswig blairo understood and agreed :)21:27
oneswigOK - the other candidates to discuss - perhaps park this one in reserve21:28
martialoneswig: I am very interested in the telemetry and monitoring21:28
b1airooneswig, what's the problem you are trying to solve here?21:28
martialoneswig: we are developing tools for that, I "quickly" presented those in the BoF talk21:28
oneswigb1airo: user-sourced telemetry data is part of it.  Understanding our system's performance is the rest21:29
b1airoother thing i wanted to discuss today is creating a HPC/Research Challenges/Gaps list that we could share with the community21:29
oneswigb1airo: Is that an activity area?21:30
oneswigfor ocata?21:30
b1airooneswig, user-sourced... as in they can feed telemetry data into the system in order to make scaling decisions etc?21:30
oneswigMore like MPI performance profiling I have in mind21:30
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b1airooneswig, it could be a standing activity21:31
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oneswigWhat activities were there around GPGPUs - anyone want to make a case?21:31
b1airooneswig, so the underlying problem is that of mashing together data from the user environment and the infrastructure into something meaningful?21:32
oneswigb1airo: yes - something to view performance telemetry from many contexts21:32
b1airooneswig, i think writing something up about how to make them work and any caveats would be very useful21:32
oneswigand correlate21:32
arcimboldoI get asked often question like "my app is slower on your VM than on my laptop"21:33
b1airothat's an activity i'd be able to lead without too much trouble21:33
oneswigb1airo: will do21:33
arcimboldoturns out it was a VM with overcommit and running on an old machine. But for the user it might be as everything is the same21:33
oneswig#action oneswig to elaborate on the case for telemetry21:33
b1airoarcimboldo, yes that statement sounds familiar21:33
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arcimboldoOn their defense, we are not giving any tool to predict the performance of the VM, not even after instance creation21:34
oneswigThe lingering question of "why did my app run slow" can get much trickier to answer in a cloud environment21:34
arcimboldoor to check how fast is the vvm21:34
b1airoregarding performance, i have some anecdotal evidence from M3 of applications that suffer very bad degradation without the appropriate pinning and topology21:34
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b1airoe.g. almost an order of magnitude!21:35
oneswigb1airo: strewth21:35
b1airoyeah, will try and get some real numbers for this particular case before SC21:35
oneswigGPGPUs anyone?21:36
b1airooneswig, +121:36
powerd+1 on the GPUs21:36
arcimboldotome the problem with GPU is that it's a scarse resource and you can't really do overbooking21:36
martialtesting them in production21:37
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arcimboldoI don't know what's the general feeling. I feel like gpus still work best with a batch system21:37
b1airore. that nomad project currently doesn't talk about gpgpu, seems more focused on NFV stuff?21:37
martialb1airo: it is very undefined yet21:37
oneswigmartial: what was the session like?21:38
martialb1airo: was at the Design summit session21:38
martialb1airo: they discussed the first steps to create the API21:38
b1airoarcimboldo, we run a batch system (SLURM) on top of openstack, it then handles the job scheduling for GPGPU flavors21:38
martialdetails at: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/nomad-ocata-design-session21:38
b1airowe also have some users who just want a CUDA dev environment, in which case an on-demand VM is good21:39
b1airomartial, thanks will take a look21:39
oneswigAre we including Xeon Phi in this?21:39
oneswig... anyone for phi?21:39
b1airowhy not? i have no direct experience, but sounds like it works21:39
oneswigme neither21:39
* dfflanders would like to learn more21:39
oneswigOK, motion carried.  One to go.21:40
powerdso phi seems a different beast in its latest incarnation - no a PCI devices / cores dont support VM21:40
b1airoat least with older gen phi, not sure whether the computing model of the current ones works...?21:40
martialwe have done some testing for Deep Neural Network and our depth was too little to trigger the Phi :(21:40
dfflanderstimecheck = 20 min remaining21:40
oneswigAnyone to step forward with a final activity area proposal?21:40
* arcimboldo still doesn't understand what nomad is exactly21:40
oneswigwe now have 421:40
b1airowhat's the list now oneswig ?21:41
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oneswigid federation, big data / sahara / datasets, gpu, monitoring - in that order21:41
dfflanderstime for people to o/ as activity leads?21:41
martialarcimboldo: an absrtaction layer for hardware, see https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Nomad21:41
dfflandersalso noting that this agenda item might need to be carried on to next meeting due to jetlags and tz differences?21:42
arcimboldomartial, a kernel then? :)21:42
zioprotomartial: it is a hardware salad, GPUs for HPC and Network chips for IPSec encpryption ...21:42
oneswigdfflanders: good point, perhaps ratify a list next week21:43
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oneswigOK - any more on activity areas?21:43
oneswigDo I have any volunteers for leading?21:43
oneswigI'm happy to do monitoring (since I'm doing it at work)21:44
powerdhappy to take on some gpu work!21:44
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zioprotooneswig: can you explain exactly what one should do when leading ?21:44
oneswigzioproto: good point, here's what I'd guess - track activities, represent the group, help advocate the use case at the forum in boston21:45
martialzioproto: participate in meetings, discuss the topics on MLs and  interact tiwht people21:45
b1airozioproto, herd cats towards some sort of outcome, however minor that might be...? :-)21:45
dfflanders+1 oneswig zioproto mt two pence : at a minimum attend meetings and report on progress + push forward any arising actions.21:45
oneswigin the case of big data, make sure the issue you raised is followed through for example21:45
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martialzioproto: given that you are working on it already, sounds like a good fit too21:46
zioprotook, I already do all this stuff but I am afraid to take officially the lead, cant be sure I will be there in Boston21:46
dfflandersblair, +1 cat herding ftw ;-D21:46
martialb1airo: at times, herding cats sounds easier though21:46
zioprotoI talk for Scientific Dataset21:46
dfflandersI will help support you zioproto if you lead21:46
oneswigzioproto: I'm unable to attend Boston either, alas - ain't going to stop me :-)21:46
b1airopowerd, sorry if i've missed this, but who are you? :-)21:46
oneswigzioproto: has taken the kings shilling :-)21:47
dfflanderszioproto, if its travel funding we should get your application in for travel support21:47
zioprotomay I confirm this lead thing at the next IRC meeting ? we have the topic also in the next agenda ?21:47
oneswigzioproto: sure, no problem21:47
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martialoneswig: we will talk on the monitoring, I am working on telemetry too, would love to know more about your model21:47
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b1airoall - regarding weekly meetings and agendas, oneswig and i sort of realised late last cycle that we should be pretty much repeating the agenda over the two different time slots so that we give everyone a chance to be on the same page21:48
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powerdaha - yes i should really have opened with that ;) David Power (working with a number of Unis on HPC, a number of whom now using openstack)21:48
oneswigmartial: that would be great - I've already made an action to elaborate on it...21:48
dfflanders+1 blair the WG has gotten to that size/distribution, it is unavoidable21:48
powerd(based in Ireland)21:48
b1airopowerd, cool! you are a consultant then?21:48
b1airowould you mind adding yourself to https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/scientific-wg-rolodex ?21:49
zioprotodfflanders: should not be a problem the travel expenses, just I have to check other activities going on in my radar :) thanks for asking21:49
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oneswigpowerd: a hearty welcome to the WG!21:50
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powerdSort of, few hats including Boston Ltd / vScaler21:50
dfflanderszioproto, kewly-o21:50
powerdthanks Stig!21:50
martialinterestingly, telemetry is not on the Etherpad21:50
martialdown to 10 minutes ?21:50
dfflanders+1 welcome welcome21:50
oneswigOK nobody yet has come forward for our most popular - identity federation.  Nobody else have this in their in-tray?21:50
dfflandersthis worth noting re Boston Cloud Declaration meeting as well.21:50
dfflandersthis worth noting re Boston Cloud Declaration meeting as well.21:50
oneswigmartial: no - only remembered it afterwards!  Will retrofit21:51
zioprotoat SWITCH we want to implement it asap21:51
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b1airooneswig, we can wait to see if anyone else volunteers interest next week or on the mailing list21:51
dfflanderszioproto, Jisc might support this work?21:51
b1airoalso worth noting Khalil's work on this already21:51
zioprotobut we have to carefully integrate it in our production system, it is not a easy migration from the existing running stuff21:51
dfflanderssorry rather powerd --> jisc might support the identity fed work?21:52
zioprotoguys when you say themailing list, which ML exactly ?21:52
oneswigb1airo: next week looks good for a leader21:52
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oneswigzioproto: usually operators gets the right audience21:53
dfflandersalso good to get redundacy with two leaders per activity where possible \o/ FTW21:53
zioprotodfflanders: most tools are there now with Mitaka. We need to upgrade the production infrastructure to Mitaka and start the testing of Keystone+Shibboleth.21:53
b1airopowerd, great, and welcome! we can collaborate on the GPU stuff21:53
zioprotothat is the current status21:53
powerdblario: thanks - looking forward to it!21:53
b1airook we need to wrap up21:53
b1airolast quick discussion on SC21:53
b1airo#topic SC1621:54
*** openstack changes topic to "SC16 (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)"21:54
oneswigwith ID federation, what I miss most is the information in one place21:54
dfflandersKhalil is helping put together a congress for international federation between academic clouds...21:54
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b1airooneswig, +1 an overview doc would be a great start!21:54
martialhere is what I have so far, missing anything? Telemetry    oneswig   martial21:54
martialScientific Dataset    zioproto21:54
martialGPGPU    powerd21:54
zioprotodfflanders: do you have a link ?21:54
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dfflandersping me email, I'll FWD info21:54
oneswigmartial: looks good to me21:54
oneswigadd b1airo to GPGPU I think21:55
dfflanders+1 NVIDIA can sponsor the next social evening ;-)21:55
b1airoyeah, have some work to do on that this cycle21:55
oneswigzioproto: I think Simon has had contact with Khalil's discussions from previous WG IRC meeting21:55
martialnobody on federation ?21:56
dfflandersblair, I've already pinged Mike21:56
oneswigmartial: not this week - carry over21:56
oneswigmartial: zioproto also pending confirmaiton next week21:56
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b1airodfflanders, for sydney summit?21:56
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martialokay added to etherpad21:57
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oneswigdfflanders: there was some discussion on Foundation helping organise WG evening socials - hope it wont get forgotten!21:57
dfflandersblair, for all of 2017 ;-)21:57
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oneswigb1airo: what to raise on SC activities?21:57
b1airooneswig, main thing was that the foundation seemed keen to do some promotion via superuser blog or some such21:58
dfflanders#action foundation via dfflanders to support organising sponsorship for scientific_wg social evening in Boston21:58
oneswiggood point b1airo21:58
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oneswigneeds doing by next meeting I guess?21:58
b1airothere were some comments added to the etherpad #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/scientific-wg-supercomputing1621:58
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b1airoyeah asap i'd say21:58
oneswigWho was the superuser contact? Nicole?21:59
dfflandersor Nicole21:59
b1airo#action b1airo to follow up with Denise re. SC activity promotion21:59
oneswigI see denise in the etherpad21:59
b1airoi'll send some email and CC you guys22:00
dfflandersDenise for SC, Allison for SU22:00
b1airook we're out of time22:00
b1airothanks for a very lively session all!!22:00
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oneswigwhat a session!22:00
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dfflandershasta luego22:00
zioprotothanks !22:00
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martialgood bye22:00
oneswigthanks all22:00
* dfflanders misses jamon22:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"22:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Nov  1 22:01:03 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)22:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-11-01-21.02.html22:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-11-01-21.02.txt22:01
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openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-11-01-21.02.log.html22:01
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b1airodfflanders, i know right - so good22:01
priteaugood bye!22:01
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b1airowhat food is boston known for?22:01
oneswigdfflanders: you should have come for the lamb my friend :-)22:01
oneswigis beer a food?22:01
dfflanderscan't wait for PTG so I can have some time to actually enjoy the places we visit :(22:02
dfflandersonly time I get to the city was with you two for breakfast22:02
priteaub1airo: Clam Chowder?22:02
dfflandersyes plz22:02
dfflandersmmmm boston clam chowder22:03
oneswiglobster, baked beans (probably not together)22:03
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b1airooneswig, heh sounds very sophisticated22:03
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oneswigb1airo: you know what I'm like :-)22:04
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b1airoover and out22:04
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