Tuesday, 2017-01-24

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hongbin#startmeeting zun03:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jan 24 03:00:18 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is hongbin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.03:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.03:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zun)"03:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'zun'03:00
hongbin#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun#Agenda_for_2017-01-24_0300_UTC Today's agenda03:00
hongbin#topic Roll Call03:00
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hongbinthanks for joining the meeting Namrata shubhams kevinz03:01
mkraiMadhuri Kumari03:01
hongbini knew these weeks are lunar new year, so some team members might not be able to join03:01
hongbinhey lakerzhou mkrai03:02
hongbinhi diga03:02
digahongbin: Hi03:02
hongbinok, let's start03:02
lakerzhouHi Jong in03:02
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hongbin#topic Announcements03:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: zun)"03:02
hongbini have one03:02
hongbinfor zun cores, please vote on the proposal: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-January/110724.html03:02
hongbin#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-January/110724.html03:02
hongbinthat is it from my side03:03
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hongbinanyone else has any announcement?03:03
hongbin#topic Review Action Items03:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Review Action Items (Meeting topic: zun)"03:03
hongbin#topic Cinder integration (diga)03:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Cinder integration (diga) (Meeting topic: zun)"03:03
hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/cinder-zun-integration The BP03:03
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/417747/ The design spec03:03
hongbindiga: ^^03:03
digahongbin: I started the development yesterday03:04
hongbindiga: cool03:04
digahongbin: By end of the week, will submit the first PS03:04
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hongbindiga: awesome, looking forward to your patch03:05
hongbinpksingh: hey03:05
digahongbin: :)03:05
pksinghsorry, i got litle late03:05
hongbinone thing i am going to add, the design spec of cinder integration has merged03:05
hongbin  #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/417747/ The design spec03:06
digahongbin: yes03:06
hongbinhowever, let diga know if there is something that you have a concern03:06
hongbinpksingh: np03:06
hongbinany other question for diga ?03:06
hongbinok, advance topic03:07
digahongbin: No, I think I am good to go now on the submitted spec03:07
hongbinthanks diga03:07
hongbin#topic Support interactive mode (kevinz)03:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Support interactive mode (kevinz) (Meeting topic: zun)"03:07
digahongbin: welcome!03:07
hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/support-interactive-mode The BP03:07
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/396841/ The design spec03:07
hongbinkevinz: ^^03:07
kevinzI have uploaded some wip patches both in server side and client side.03:08
hongbinkevinz: you have some links?03:09
kevinzhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/422525/     https://review.openstack.org/#/c/417681/03:09
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/422525/03:09
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/417681/03:09
hongbinkevinz: perhaps you could briefly talk about what is the current status of this bp and what these patches are about03:11
kevinzBTW, both the client and server side need more test cases03:11
pksinghwill find some time to review these patches today03:11
kevinzOK. The client side  is working for websocket client, user will do the "attach" command , get a websocket link from API server.03:12
kevinzThe client side use select poll mechanism and some interpt to deal with user input , output and stderr03:13
hongbinkevinz: cool03:14
kevinzIn server side, there are two API, one is about "attach", mainly to get the Docker daemon version. The other is "resize", to do the resize tty function in the compute node03:14
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kevinzThat's the briefly introduction about these two patch :-)03:15
hongbinkevinz: thanks for the introduction03:15
hongbinkevinz: is there any road blocker so far for implementing this bp?03:15
hongbinkevinz: e.g. the docker-py version, etc.03:15
kevinzHongbin: Just one problem, websocket link need the compute node ip, or hostname03:17
hongbinkevinz: use the host_ip in the config file will work?03:17
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kevinzhongbin: Does API server know all the compute nodes' IP?03:18
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hongbinkevinz: i am not sure exactly, it seems no03:19
kevinzI konw API server can search from DB to get all computes node's hostname, but I'm not sure this "hostname" can work in websocket link, I will check it03:19
hongbinkevinz: i think the compute host needs to return the ip address03:19
kevinzhongbin: OK, that is a solution, I will add to the attach function.03:20
hongbinkevinz: alternatively, there is a 'host' field in container, check that as well03:20
hongbinkevinz: thanks kevinz03:21
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hongbinall, any other question for kevinz ?03:21
kevinzYeah ,I will check this.03:21
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hongbinok, next topic03:21
hongbin#topic How to expose CPU configurations for containers03:22
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hongbinit looks sudipta is not here, but he discussed with me in before about that03:22
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hongbinboth I and he agree to expose the vcpu as the resource constraint03:22
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hongbinfor simplicity03:23
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hongbinat the backend, we tranaslate vcpu into docker specific config (e.g. cpu_period, cpu_share, etc.)03:23
pksinghseems interesting03:24
hongbinlater, sudipta will propose a feature to pin to container to specific cpu cores03:24
hongbinall, thoughts?03:24
pksinghi did not get much time last week, will look more into it03:25
mkraiI guess we need a spec for this03:25
pksinghmkrai: +103:25
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hongbinmkrai: ack03:26
hongbini think we need to create a bp first03:26
hongbin#action hongbin create a bp for exposing container cpu resource03:26
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hongbinok, it looks that is all the discussion about this topic, anything else to add?03:27
pksinghhongbin: you and sudipto discussed on zun channel, right?03:27
hongbinpksingh: i don't remember...03:28
pksinghhongbin: :)03:28
lakerzhouIs it related to CPU pinning?03:28
hongbinpksingh: if you cann't find the log in zun channel, perhaps, it is a private chat, sorry, i didn't pay attention at that time03:29
lakerzhouDo we support flavor in sun?03:29
pksinghhongbin: no problem03:29
hongbinlakerzhou: yes, the cpuset feature is about cpu pinning03:29
hongbinlakerzhou: the native docker driver don't have a flavor, the nova driver will have a flavor03:30
hongbinlakerzhou: this bp covers some of the details: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/auto-select-nova-flavor03:30
lakerzhouOk, I guess I should read it first03:31
lakerzhouThank you03:31
hongbinok, if there is no other comment, i am going to advance topic03:31
hongbin#topic Discuss BPs that are pending approval03:32
*** openstack changes topic to "Discuss BPs that are pending approval (Meeting topic: zun)"03:32
hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/support-port-bindings Support container port mapping03:32
hongbinthis proposal is about expose the port mapping feature in zun api03:32
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hongbinfolks, any thoughts on this one? good idea? bad idea?03:32
pksinghwe discussed on this one, that this will expose compute node network?03:33
hongbinyes, it seems it will03:33
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pksinghi think we also decided not to do it as of now, if i remmeber03:34
hongbinpksingh: ack03:34
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hongbinothers, thoughts?03:34
shubhamsI think its a good to have feature but not very much urgent for now03:35
hongbinshubhams: i think pksingh means this is not a good idea at all03:35
shubhamshongbin:  I got that and my view point stands same : We could have it03:36
hongbinshubhams: i see03:36
hongbinshubhams: could you elaborate? why it is good to have it?03:37
mkraipksingh: Can you tell us the reason of not supporting it?03:37
hongbinshubhams: would love to consider your input :)03:37
mkraiI just want to know the reason behind it03:37
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shubhamsIn some (or infact most) scenarios application would want to run on a specific ports and many apps tends to rely on certain ports03:37
pksinghmkrai: this needs to go through compute's node network, because port will be of compute node, and we dont want to give access of compute node to anyone03:38
hongbinshubhams: this sounds like a k8s service feature03:38
shubhamsIn such scenarios if users of zun could bind ports then it would be easy for them to deploy. They do not  need to change anything in their application03:39
shubhamshongbin: yes similar03:39
hongbinshubhams: ok, i see. i think your requested feature is valid, however, it could be achieved in an alternative way03:39
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hongbinshubhams: i.e. support k8s service similar feature in zun03:40
shubhamspksingh:  Do you mean to say, we do not want user to know which ports are free and which are in use ?03:40
mkraipksingh: got your point. But isn't the same way implemented in docker?03:40
hongbinshubhams: however, as pksingh said, the port mapping feature has security risk to expose the management network for attack, this is a critial pitfall i think03:40
shubhamshongbin:  may be that could solve the purpose but I am not sure as of now about it03:41
pksinghshubhams: i dont want that user access computenodeip:port03:41
pksinghwe can have different mechanism to do it03:41
hongbinshubhams: ack03:41
shubhamshongbin: pksingh  : acked03:41
hongbinok, then let me create a bp to record this use case03:42
hongbinhowever, i will leave the solution open, so we could further think about it03:42
pksinghmkrai: in docker user is controlling the his node, directly i thnk03:42
pksinghhongbin: +103:42
hongbin#action hongbin create a bp to add support for expose container port03:42
hongbinany additional comment about this one?03:43
hongbinok, next one03:44
hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/support-zun-top Support top command03:44
hongbinthis proposal is about adding support for 'docker top' command in zun03:44
hongbinwhat do you think abou the idea?03:44
shubhamshongbin: How this will work in multihost env ?03:45
mkrai+1 for this03:45
mkraisame question as shubhams03:45
hongbinshubhams: i am not sure exactly03:45
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mkrai#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/423971/03:45
mkraithere is patch already for this I guess03:46
pksinghshubhams: multihost means?03:46
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mkraiIs feng present today?03:46
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hongbinmkrai: i don't think so03:46
shubhamspksingh:  multiple hosts for container deployment03:46
pksinghshubhams: it is getting top logs of the container, i think, what is the challange03:47
shubhamsIMO, we should have it but we also need a small spec as well03:47
pksinghshubhams: +103:47
hongbinshubhams: could you relay your comment to the review?03:48
shubhamshongbin: yes sure03:48
hongbinshubhams: thx03:48
hongbinok, it looks that is all for this one03:49
hongbin#topic Open Discussion03:49
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: zun)"03:49
hongbinall, any other topic to bring up?03:49
hongbinNamrata: are you working on the Zun resource in Heat?03:50
Namratayes I am working on it03:50
hongbinNamrata: great, feel free to share if there is any update from your side :)03:50
Namratayeah sure I will add soem patches this week03:51
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pksinghhongbin: which cycle we are targeting? :)03:52
hongbinpksingh: zun is currently at indepedent release mode03:53
hongbinpksingh: that means we are free to decide which cycle to target03:53
hongbinpksingh: you have any thought about that?03:53
pksinghhongbin: ok, cool03:53
pksinghhongbin: i think if we can implement all the necesary BPs, then we can decide03:54
hongbinpksingh: agree03:54
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hongbinok, it looks there is no more topic03:54
hongbinall, thanks for joining the meeting03:55
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"03:55
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jan 24 03:55:08 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)03:55
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-01-24-03.00.html03:55
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-01-24-03.00.txt03:55
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-01-24-03.00.log.html03:55
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Dinesh_Bhorsagara: Hi04:01
Dinesh_BhorHi all04:01
samPhi all04:01
takashiHi all :-)04:01
takashiIs samP here?04:02
samP#startmeeting masakari04:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Jan 24 04:02:28 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is samP. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.04:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.04:02
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'masakari'04:02
samPHi all04:02
takashisamP: hi04:02
samPsince we do not have critical bugs, let jump in to discuttion04:03
tpatilIn the last meeting we discuss about signal handler issue04:03
samPtpatil: yes,04:03
tpatilsignal issue is fixed in patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/421767/04:04
tpatilJust saw you have approved that patch04:04
samPtpatil: LGTM04:04
rkmrHonjotpatil: thanks.04:05
samPrkmrHonjo: if its ok, then +1 the workflow04:05
abhishekkneeds to set w+ on that patch04:05
rkmrHonjosamP, abhishekk:sure.04:05
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samPis does not effect to other patches, so, no need to rebase them, right?04:06
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tpatilrkmrHonjo: We will submit a separate patch to exit child process gracefully04:07
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rkmrHonjotpatil:Is the patch use ServiceLauncher?04:07
tpatilrkmrHonjo: No, it uses same code as previous i.e ProcessLauncher04:08
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rkmrHonjotpatil: OK, thanks.04:09
samPtpatil: thanks..04:10
takashisorry for short disconnection. just come back from wifi trouble.04:10
samPtakashi: np04:11
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samPtpatil: when will you plan to submit the new patch?04:11
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abhishekksamP: tushar san is facing internet issue04:13
tpatil_sorry, I lost my internet connection04:13
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samPtpatil_: np04:13
samPtpatil: when will you plan to submit the new patch?04:13
tpatil_samP: can you please suggest what should be the default interval for the new periodic task?04:13
samPtpatil_: are you refering to https://review.openstack.org/#/c/423059/104:14
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tpatil_more the probability of notification failure , less should be the interval time04:16
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tpatil_Do you think 2 mins interval is appropriate to run the new periodic task?04:18
samPtpatil_: current default is 300 right, feels bit long. but 120 would be nice04:18
tpatil_samP: ok04:18
abhishekkI will update the lite-specs accordingly04:19
samPtpatil_: in nova, is 60. but we are not just polling things, in that case 120 would be OK04:19
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samPhowever, Im wondering, cat we recommend a minimum value for retry_notification_new_status_interval?04:20
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samPtpatil_: thanks, I put a minor comment on minimum value for retry_notification_new_status_interval04:21
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tpatil_samP: We can keep the default value to 60 for retry_notification_new_status_interval04:22
samPtpatil_: that meens, generated_time+60s it will re-try the new notifications04:23
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samPtpatil_: for my understandig, it wont take long befor recovery folw get the new notifications, which is way less than 60s.04:24
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samPso, 60s would be fine. I will add these comments to spec review.04:25
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tpatil_samP: execution time of each flow cannot be predicted as it goes through different services04:25
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samPtpatil_: ah, right. I will check other config values and comment to the spec04:27
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tpatil_samP: ok04:28
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samPone other question, how does the operator know which flow is not re-trying?04:28
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tpatil_Abhishek: Please explain the notification status flow04:29
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samPit seems, both notifications are end in "failed" states04:29
abhishekkso 1st is if notification ends in error state04:29
abhishekkthen periodic task will pick that notification and states will be error > running > success or failed04:30
samPah, got it04:30
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abhishekk2nd one if notification is ignored then it will be new > running > failed or success state04:30
samPif failed, the operator must look in to it04:30
tpatil_samP: correct04:31
samPabhishekk: thanks, got it.04:31
samPtpatil_: thanks04:31
tpatil_samP: All notifications whose status is Failed should be resolved by the operator04:31
samPtpatil_: clear.. thanks04:31
samPOK then, overall flow is LGTM except minor comments about default values. I will add my comment on them.04:33
samPif no other comments or questins abt periodic task, shall we move to "RESERVED_HOST recovery action"?04:34
samPhere is the spec.04:34
samPhumm... link is not working04:34
samPare we goning to set reserved=False at the end of the execution?04:35
tpatil_#link: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/42307204:35
abhishekksamP: as per current approach yes04:36
samPfor me it seems that, there is a possibility for multiple work folw could take the same reserved host...04:36
tpatil_samP: you are correct, the reserved host should be set to False immediately even before evacuating vms from the failed compute node.04:37
tpatil_sam: We will incorporate this use case in the current specs04:38
takashiOr do we need a lock about reserved host?04:38
tpatil_as per current design ,we don't want to call masakari db api from the workflow04:39
samPtpatil_: thanks..we may introduce a new flag/lock, but make reserved=false & nova-compute=disable is same effect right?04:39
samPah..no..it wont04:40
abhishekkIMO when setting reserved=false means we need to enable compute service for that host04:40
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samPabhishekk: yes, but we cant set reserved=fale at the start and set nova-compute=enable at the end, in the same flow.04:41
samPabhishekk: in the middle, we can set the error andlings04:42
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tpatil_samP: flow should be: loop through the available reserved host list->set reserved to False, enable compute node of reserved host->evacuate vms04:43
abhishekkwe need to enable compute service at the start only04:43
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takashiwe need to enable nova-compute service before evacuation, right?04:44
tpatil_takashi: correct04:44
samPtpatil_: before evacuate, correct04:45
tpatil_samP: yes04:45
samPtpatil_: from start to end of the recovery flow, how do we prevent nova-scheduler from assigning new VM to that host?04:46
tpatil_samP: That's not possible04:47
samPtpatil_: cant we use on maintenance? is it block the evacuation too?04:47
tpatil_samP: Evacuate api will fail if the compute host is out of resources and then it will get the new reserved host from the list and continue evacuation on new compute node04:48
abhishekksamP: nova does not know about on_maintenance, once compute service is enabled on reserved host then nova can use that host to schedule new instances04:49
tpatil_samP: Abhishek is correct04:51
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samPsorry, probably my mistake of nova service-disable --reason maintenance04:51
samPhowever, it seems that migrate can preform even in service-disable mode, may be that made me confuse04:52
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rkmrHonjosamP: Just a information: The software that is base of masakari didn't care this scheduling problem. (Of course, improving it is nice.)04:55
tpatil_IMO, the nova compute service should be enabled even in live migration case other RPC message won't work at all04:56
samPrkmrHonjo: correct.04:57
samPtpatil_: agree... I will chekck the current nova code and update myself...04:58
samPok then, its almost time...04:59
rkmrHonjoIn my understanding, http://docs.openstack.org/ops-guide/ops-maintenance-compute.html says that source-computenode can be disable. But, dest-compute node should be enable.04:59
takashiLet's keep discussion on specs. would be glad if we can get some feedback from previous masakari implementation04:59
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samPrkmrHonjo: right05:00
samPPlease put your comments and questions on the spec..05:00
samP#topic AOB05:00
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takashiI'll have a look about specs and some remainig patches05:00
samPtakashi: sure, thanks05:00
takashiShould we move to #openstack-masakari?05:01
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samPtakashi: sure, but I was thinkg to link gerrit with it05:01
samPSince, infra said thay dont have enough bots, I left it to TODO05:02
samPtakashi: sice we are out of time, lets dicuss it on next meeting..05:03
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samPany ohter questions or comments?05:04
rkmrHonjoCan I talk about other topic?(Sorry, I forgot to write topic on wiki.)05:04
samPrkmrHonjo: sure05:05
rkmrHonjosamP: Thanks.05:05
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rkmrHonjoMasakari-monitors: Takahara & I re-thought about "ProcessLauncher or ServiceLauncher" after last week meeting.05:05
rkmrHonjoAs a result, we thought that service launcher is better than process launcher. There are 2 reasons.05:06
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rkmrHonjo1: Using service launcher for non-http server is a general way.(This reason was already said in last week meeting.)05:06
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rkmrHonjo2: Launching 3 monitors as workers of one parent is not useful. Some users won't wish to use all monitors. And restating/shutoff one monitor is not easy in this way.05:07
rkmrHonjosamP: How do you think about this?05:08
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samPrkmrHonjo: Are you recomending the service launcher insted of current process launcher?05:09
rkmrHonjosamP: Yes.05:09
samPrkmrHonjo: For my POV, (1) is not that importent, however (2) is importent05:10
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samPrkmrHonjo: aggree with you on (2)05:10
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rkmrHonjosamP: Thanks. We'll change launcher after tpatil's patch will be merged.05:12
samPrkmrHonjo: if we are going to change this, then we have to discuss with tpatil and abhishekk too. because they are working on the new patch05:12
samPrkmrHonjo: can you create a doc on ether pad or PoC for that ptach?05:13
rkmrHonjosamP: "That patch" means change launcher, right?05:14
samPrkmrHonjo: yes05:14
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rkmrHonjosamP: OK. I create doc or PoC and notify it to you, tpatil and abhichekk.05:15
samPrkmrHonjo: thank you very much..05:16
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rkmrHonjosamP: thanks.05:16
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samPOK then, we are 16mis out of the schedule..lets wrap up05:17
samPis there are any other things to discuss?05:17
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samPif no, then lets finish the meeting. use #openstack-masakari for further discussions05:18
samPThank you all05:18
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"05:18
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jan 24 05:18:35 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)05:18
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-01-24-04.02.html05:18
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-01-24-04.02.txt05:18
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-01-24-04.02.log.html05:18
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eranrom_#startmeeting storlets08:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jan 24 08:00:36 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is eranrom_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.08:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.08:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storlets)"08:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'storlets'08:00
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eranromSeems like no one is able to join today, so I will end the meeting in few minutes.08:04
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eranromThanks you all for joining :-)08:08
eranromIf needed please find us on #openstack-storlets08:08
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yanyanhu#startmeeting senlin13:00
openstackyanyanhu: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.  Use #endmeeting first.13:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"13:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jan 24 13:00:31 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)13:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2017/storlets.2017-01-24-08.00.html13:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2017/storlets.2017-01-24-08.00.txt13:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2017/storlets.2017-01-24-08.00.log.html13:00
yanyanhu#startmeeting senlin13:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jan 24 13:00:50 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is yanyanhu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.13:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.13:00
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'senlin'13:00
yanyanhuhi, guys13:01
XueFenghi,yanyan, QiMing13:01
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yanyanhuhi, Qiming XueFeng13:01
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XueFenghi xinhui13:01
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XueFenghi elynn13:01
yanyanhuhi, elynn13:01
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yanyanhuok, lets get started13:02
yanyanhuhere is the agenda, please feel free to add items you want to discuss13:02
yanyanhu#topic Ocata-3 release13:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Ocata-3 release (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:03
yanyanhuthis week is the o3 release13:03
yanyanhuso we will cut o3 release of senlin service13:03
Qimingthere seem to be quite a few patches which will need sdk 0.9.12 for release13:03
yanyanhuand also make the final release of senlinclient13:03
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yanyanhuQiming: yes, Steve has updated the patch to bump sdk version13:04
Qimingneed to closely track the sdk version bump patch13:04
yanyanhuhopefully it can be done in one or two days13:04
yanyanhuQiming: yes13:04
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yanyanhuafter it is done, we can safely but senlinclient release :)13:04
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yanyanhuabout senlin service, is there any critical patch is still pending?13:05
Qimingyep, there are quite a few patches depending on the new sdk release13:05
yanyanhuI guess those fixes about health manager should be included13:06
yanyanhufor mistral driver, it is still in progess I think13:07
yanyanhuand also the vdu profile13:07
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yanyanhuI see, will stare at them13:07
yanyanhuand please just leave message or ping me if you have any critical patches need to deal with :)13:07
yanyanhuI plan to cut the release by the end of Thursday13:08
yanyanhufor both service and client13:08
yanyanhugreat, if no other questions, lets move on13:09
yanyanhu#topic Proposals for Boston Summit13:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Proposals for Boston Summit (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:09
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yanyanhuwe now have three proposals in the list13:09
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yanyanhutwo for NFV related topics and one for dtdream use case13:09
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yanyanhuand both of them have a etherpad to collect the idea13:10
yanyanhuhope you guys can take a look at them and leave your comments13:10
yanyanhusince the deadline is 6th, Feb13:10
yanyanhuwe may need to finish the proposal during our Spring festival :)13:10
yanyanhuhi, lxinhui, elynn, any thing you guys want to share :)13:11
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yanyanhuI guess haiwei is not here13:11
elynnI was preparing the edu profile13:12
yanyanhuruijie: hi, evening13:12
ruijiehi yanyanhu13:12
lxinhuiEthan and bran are working together13:12
elynnand also add needed attributes to heat senile resource13:12
yanyanhuelynn: great, that is for supporting the demo(if we have one)13:12
lxinhuion the VDU dev and tests13:12
yanyanhulxinhui: nice13:12
lxinhuiVMware has test bed will complete network support13:13
yanyanhuso have you submit the proposal to the website of summit?13:13
lxinhuiwill throw out draft for your comments13:13
lxinhuinot yet13:13
yanyanhuwill help to review it13:13
yanyanhuhi, ruijie, you are on the train?13:13
ruijieNot yet :)13:14
yanyanhuwill also review the proposal you leave in the etherpad and leave comments13:14
yanyanhuhi, team, please help to review those proposals as well :)13:15
ruijieBasically it's about ha and scalability for PaaS13:15
yanyanhuhope we can get chance to show people some pratical use cases13:15
yanyanhuruijie: about pass, you mean?13:15
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ruijieUse senlin to manage our PaaS13:15
ruijieThe App platform13:16
yanyanhuso the applications are also managed by senlin?13:16
ruijieTo provide HA and scalability for the VMs13:16
ruijieWhich contains a number of containers13:16
yanyanhuhave you tried senlin's container cluster :P13:17
ruijieThe app are managed by the cloud foundry13:17
yanyanhuI see13:17
yanyanhuso senlin is for preparing the iaas and cloudfoundry is staying upon it13:17
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ruijieYes yanyanhu13:18
ruijieIaaS-senlin-cloud foundry13:18
yanyanhuif so, I guess senlin can provide the ability of scaling and HA for cloudfoundry cluster13:19
ruijieBut I am not sure it's specific since ha and scalability has been talked for a long time13:19
Qimingyes, it is a huge field by itself13:19
ruijieRight, and we can use ansible to solve the deployment problem13:19
Qimingneed to be more specific about the requirements13:19
yanyanhuruijie: yes, they are. But I think we can focus on our use scenario13:20
yanyanhuand how it benefits from senlin's scaling and HA support13:20
ruijieE.g we have 10 vms13:21
ruijieIt's a fixed number13:21
ruijieCurrently we use these 10 VM to provide scalability for apps13:21
ruijieBut you see the VMs number is fixed13:22
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ruijieIf the load is high , it's not scalable at all13:22
ruijieSo we need 2 level scalability, VM and container13:22
yanyanhuruijie: yes13:22
yanyanhuactually we need to align the scaling of VMs and Containers to achieve the scaling of entire system13:23
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ruijieAnd also, the VM should be able to be rebuilt or recreate if it goes down13:23
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Qimingruijie, we talked about that before, back on the Tokyo summit13:24
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ruijieYes Qiming, I see, so I am not sure it's good13:24
Qimingit was a joint work with some university studentds13:24
ruijieJust change magnum to cloud foundry13:25
Qimingthey got it done in one month13:25
Qimingthe devil is in the details13:25
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Qimingthe metrics you collect, the way you collect those metrics, the threshold you set, the triggering mechanism, the cooldown period ...13:25
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Qimingwhen do you want to scale-in, when do you want to scale-out ... etc.13:26
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yanyanhuso maybe we consider to talk about it with a real use case in dtdream?13:27
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ruijieYes Qiming, that's how we use it too...13:27
ruijieLike Ali ESS13:27
yanyanhuwhat application you are running, and what its requirement on scaling/HA, and how to use senlin to suppor it?13:27
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QimingI'm not sure senlin can provide a complete solution, but senlin can evolve into a competent component for your integration13:28
yanyanhuand some traps you met and some data for sharing?13:28
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ruijieTo deployment13:28
yanyanhuyep, senlin is like the bridge here13:28
Qimingthat was my vision a long time ago, I mean, senlin + ansible for clustered app/service deployment and operation13:29
yanyanhuit will be a good story if you can build a complete workflow13:29
ruijieUse senlin to create a cluster and cluster collect... ansible to deploy13:30
ruijieThis could create a cluster contains control nodes13:30
ruijieAnd another is cluster contains compute resources13:31
ruijieHa policy scaling policy ... to provide HA and scalability for the compute cluster13:31
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yanyanhuso I feel describing the entire workflow clearly is important, and how it can be used to support your production environment13:32
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ruijieJust we extend the profile plugin to run ansible workflow13:35
yanyanhuso ruijie please consider to formulate the proposal from this aspect :)13:35
ruijieSure yanyanhu13:35
yanyanhuruijie: that's is not a problem, you can introduce that in the presentation :)13:35
ruijieThanks, will think about it :)13:36
yanyanhuthanks :)13:36
yanyanhuso any more question about this topic?13:36
yanyanhuplease just notice the deadline :P13:37
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ruijieFeb 6th13:37
yanyanhuok, lets move on13:37
yanyanhu#topic NFV related work item13:37
*** openstack changes topic to "NFV related work item (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:37
yanyanhulxinhui and elynn has introduced it13:38
yanyanhuso please help to review the code, guys13:38
lxinhuiand the proposal13:38
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elynnAnd the patch at heat side :)13:39
lxinhuiYes :)13:39
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yanyanhuand lxinhui elynn, please feel free to start the discussion if you meet any critical issue need to address13:39
yanyanhuespecially some critical changes in senlin13:40
yanyanhulets figure it out together13:40
elynnI will13:40
QimingI'll try my best to stay online, if youyou don't cry13:40
yanyanhuQiming: :)13:40
yanyanhuyouyou should have the highest priority13:40
Qimingshe was crying just now ...13:41
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yanyanhuQiming: you can leave for her now I think :)13:41
yanyanhu#topic Open discussions13:41
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussions (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:41
yanyanhuopen discussion now13:41
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yanyanhuso you guys are still in working status :)13:41
yanyanhuonly two days left before the most important festival in China :P13:42
ruijieI m on the way to train station:)13:42
QimingI'm playing with a Go version of senlin service13:42
yanyanhuoh, I think the next irc meeting could be cancelled13:42
Qimingdatabase is using etcd13:42
yanyanhuQiming: cool!13:42
yanyanhufor most of the team will be in vacation13:43
Qimingit is fun, a lot of things have to be done manually, for lacking of package support13:43
yanyanhuQiming: yes, python's lib is more abundon than go's I guess13:43
yanyanhuthere is even no built-in lib for random string generation...13:44
ruijieBut go could build once run anywhere :)13:44
yanyanhusorry, not random string13:44
Qimingthere is13:44
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yanyanhuoops, last time I tried to find one but failed...13:44
Qimingoh, I am using a lbi13:44
yanyanhuthere is 3rd part lib for it13:44
yanyanhuyep, that oe :)13:45
QimingI'm using this13:45
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Qiming47     p.CreatedAt := time.Now().Format("2006-01-02T15:04:05 MST")13:45
elynnYou can start a company if go version of senile is finished ;)13:46
Qimingthis line of code cost me a few hours as well13:46
yanyanhudefinitely, haha13:46
Qimingelynn, it is senlin, not senile ...13:46
elynnmy input method always correct me...13:46
elynnIn a wrong way...13:46
yanyanhuthat means we are not that popular to become a new english word13:47
yanyanhuok, so I guess we can end the meeting a little earlier today13:47
yanyanhuactually I have another meeting in 10:00pm...13:47
yanyanhumay need to leave for it13:47
yanyanhuso please keep in touch in coming week :)13:48
QimingXueFeng, online?13:48
yanyanhuand happy Chinese new year in advance13:48
elynnHappy new year to everyone :)13:48
Qimingguys, just want to bring up an issue13:48
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XueFenghi Qiming13:49
Qimingthere are cases people build a chain of patches having one depending on another13:49
yanyanhuhi, Qiming, so lets backup each other for the o3 relase, in case the network in the home of my parents in law is not good...13:49
Qiminge.g. p3 is a branch out of p2 which is a branch from master13:49
yanyanhuI will try to cut the release in Thursday13:49
Qimingin those cases and other cases, please don't use the gerrit Edit functionality to change the code13:50
yanyanhuthanks a lot13:50
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Qimingit will create a patch with a change-id only known to the server, now on the committer's local git repo13:50
yanyanhuagree with Qiming, public edit in gerrit is not recommened13:50
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elynnthanks for remind13:50
yanyanhuespecially for cod13:50
Qimingit will generate a lot chaos for rebase13:50
Qimingall comments are welcomed, but please don't edit other's patch unless you know it is independent, already in good shape to be merged ...13:51
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yanyanhuso have to leave to prepare for next meeting, please help to end the meeting at 10:00, thanks :)13:51
yanyanhutalk to you guys later13:51
XueFengOk, If we edit and  download this patch13:52
XueFengIt will work again?13:52
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Qimingno, in my local git, I may have patch 2 and patch 3 depending on that patch13:53
Qiminge.g. this is what I have done locally13:53
Qiminggit checkout -b fix-bug-113:53
Qiminggit commit13:53
Qiminggit review13:53
Qiminggit checkout -b fix-bug-213:54
Qiminggit commit13:54
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Qiminggit review13:54
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Qimingnow, if someone changed the first patch, I cannot easily rebase my second one onto it13:54
Qiminglocally, I don't have the new change-id13:54
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Qimingin some cases, I may have a 3rd, 4th patch depending on each other13:55
Qimingif someone has made changes at server side, I have to rework all local patches, and most of the time, it is a huge pain13:55
Qiminga lot of rebase errors will happen13:55
XueFengYes, if edit fix-bug-1 and we download fix-bug-1.13:56
XueFengthen in fix-bug-213:56
XueFenggit rebase -i fix-bug-113:56
XueFengIt will ok13:56
Qimingsometimes it work, sometimes it simply don't13:57
Qimingespecially when I have fix-bug-3 and fix-bug-413:57
Qimingit is ANNOYING13:57
XueFengif so maybe it  bug of git13:58
XueFengs/it/it's a13:58
Qiminga better option is STOP editing other's patch unless you know there is no dependency chain at the author side13:58
Qimingand the edit is the LAST thing to fix so it can be merged first13:58
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Qimingthat's all13:59
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Qimingrunning out of time13:59
Qimingbest wishes, guys13:59
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elynnneed yanyanhu back to endmeeting?14:00
Qimingor he can #chairn one of us14:00
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Qimingmeeting chair left, then no one can #endmeeting ?14:01
jpichSomeone from infra may be able to?14:02
yanyanhuI'm here will end it14:03
Qimingan awkward situ14:03
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"14:03
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jan 24 14:03:12 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)14:03
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2017/senlin.2017-01-24-13.00.html14:03
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2017/senlin.2017-01-24-13.00.txt14:03
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2017/senlin.2017-01-24-13.00.log.html14:03
yanyanhusorry for this, jpich14:03
jpichNo worries14:03
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saggi#startmeeting karbor15:03
openstackMeeting started Tue Jan 24 15:03:41 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is saggi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: karbor)"15:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'karbor'15:03
saggihi everyone15:03
diablo_rojo_phonHello :)15:04
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saggiWe've got a lot of stuff in the agenda today 😁15:04
yuvalhey diablo_rojo_phon15:04
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yuvalsaggi: I'm responsible for that..15:05
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chenying__hi welcome15:05
saggiPlease add your nick to the items you add so I know who the owner is.15:05
saggi#topic PTL Nominations15:06
*** openstack changes topic to "PTL Nominations (Meeting topic: karbor)"15:06
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saggiAs you all probably know this is PTL nomination time.15:06
saggiI regrettably will not be able to be able to perform my duty as PTL for the next cycle.15:07
saggiI need to shift my focus to different projects so I will not be able to give Karbor my full attention.15:08
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chenying__oh it not a good news15:08
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saggiI will still try and be active in the project like doing reviews and going over spec files15:08
saggiAnd show up for meetings15:09
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chenying__tks saggi15:09
saggiI believe that we have enough talented people so that the project can thrive without my full attention15:10
saggiIt's been a pleasure working with everyone getting Karbor off the ground and in to V1.015:10
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yuvalthanks saggi15:11
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saggiAnd with the same breath I would like to suggest Yuval as P cycle PTL.15:12
saggiHe has been instrumental in getting the past 2 cycles done.15:12
saggiHe does the most amount of reviews by a large margin15:12
saggiand has intimate knowledge on the inner working of the project.15:13
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chenying___sound good for15:13
yuvalsaggi: Thank you for the vote of confidence15:14
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saggi#topic Kolla deployment15:15
*** openstack changes topic to "Kolla deployment (Meeting topic: karbor)"15:15
diablo_rojo_phonCan I make one quick announcement before we move to the next topic? It's in regards to the ptg.15:15
saggiWho owns this?15:15
saggi#topic ptg hijack15:16
*** openstack changes topic to "ptg hijack (Meeting topic: karbor)"15:16
diablo_rojo_phonWe've been looking over registration numbers for Karbor and it didn't look like many had denoted they were coming for Karbor.  Just wanted to raise awareness that there aren't many registration spots left and the prices hike up soon so if you've been waiting to register, now is the time before the event fills up.15:16
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diablo_rojo_phonWe want to see Karbor succeed :)15:16
diablo_rojo_phonThat's all15:16
saggidiablo_rojo_phon, thanks15:17
diablo_rojo_phonsaggi: thanks for permission to hijack :)15:17
saggi#topic Kolla deployment15:17
*** openstack changes topic to "Kolla deployment (Meeting topic: karbor)"15:17
saggiWho owns this?15:17
yuvalI actually wanted to get the status of the kolla deployment15:18
yuvalNoticed that all relevant patches were merged15:18
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saggiWho was the owner?15:19
yuvalWei Cao. I believe he is not here15:19
yuvalwe can move on15:19
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saggi#topic Ocata RC115:20
*** openstack changes topic to "Ocata RC1 (Meeting topic: karbor)"15:20
yuvalOcata RC1 is next week15:20
yuvaland with it we will be branching out stable/ocata on all of karbor's repos15:20
chenyingcaiwei may want to notice that the kolla patch about karbor have been merged.15:20
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yuvaltechnically, we are indepenent release, but we adhere to the release cycle as we will want to become a cycle release in the near future15:21
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saggiWhat about packaging?15:21
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yuvalwhat about it?15:23
saggiWe had issues with that last release IIRC15:24
yuvalsaggi: don't recall exactly :\15:24
saggiThere is some thing that needs to be done so we are packaged correctly as part of the release15:25
saggiin pypi15:25
yuvalsaggi: I'll look into it15:25
saggi#topic Plan status (started, suspended)15:25
*** openstack changes topic to "Plan status (started, suspended) (Meeting topic: karbor)"15:25
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yuvalcurrently each plan has a 'started'/'suspended' status15:26
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yuvalseems like it is not being used by anything15:26
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chenyingIn the early design, 'started'/'suspended' statu is for the Replication.15:26
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saggiIt's not, it's going to be used for replication. We need to make sure we are started when we create a checkpoint15:27
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saggiAnd spit an error if the status is incorrect15:27
chenyingIt is not used for backup feature in karbor.15:27
saggiBackup assumes started since we might need the replication to be active to create a checkpoint.15:28
saggiIt's also a way for the tenant to stop a plan from running even if there are timed operations that invoke it from the outside.15:28
yuvalI see15:28
yuvalok, we need to fix that in docs and add a validation15:29
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saggiOpen a bug15:30
saggi#topic Protection Plugins (Glance, Nova, Neutron)15:30
*** openstack changes topic to "Protection Plugins (Glance, Nova, Neutron) (Meeting topic: karbor)"15:30
yuvalGlance is almost complete by chenying15:30
yuvalNova will follow15:30
yuvalis anyone working on Neutron?15:31
chenyingI will finished the nova plugin about the situation boot form volume tomorrow/15:31
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chenyingchenhuayi is working on the network plugin refactor these days.15:32
yuvalchenying: it must be complete before ocata release15:32
chenyingbut he may need some help about it.15:32
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yuvalchenying: well, he can start pushing it to gerrit with WIP15:32
yuvalchenying: so we can at least give comments during work15:32
chenyingyuval Ok Sound good. He need submit a new patch about it ASAP, so we can review and give some comments.15:33
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saggichenying, why is he not in the meeting?15:34
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chenyingsaggi He may don't now the irc meeting time about karbor. He retrun to work on karbor from last week.15:36
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saggiOK, we might need to return to sending reminders to the mailing list15:37
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saggi#topic dashboard15:37
*** openstack changes topic to "dashboard (Meeting topic: karbor)"15:37
yuvaldashboard is in good condition, zhangshuai fixed the plan edit15:37
chenyingI will tell him tomorrow. And we could discuss the network plugins in karbor's IRC channel.15:37
yuvaland we have the checkpoint status update patch almost ready15:37
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yuvalI'll open a bug about adding type parameters in plan15:38
yuvalwe can jump to open discussion imo15:38
chenyingyuval: Yes Zhangshuai did a good job about it.15:38
saggi#topic open discussion15:39
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: karbor)"15:39
saggiAnything else?15:39
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chenyingI notice that yuval have introduced backup the volume from a snapshot.15:40
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chenyingSo Do we consider  introducing a independent volume snapshot plugin?15:40
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chenyingin P cycle15:41
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yuvalchenying: I think we spoke about that earlier this week/last week15:41
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saggilast week15:41
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chenyingOh I remember it.15:42
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chenyingWhat I want to say, do we need dicuss the solution in PTG. Add it as a topic in the ptg.15:43
saggiAdd it with proper description and we'll see15:43
saggichenying, OK?15:44
chenyingThere are something that may need think carefully.15:44
chenyingsaggi: Ok15:44
saggiAnything else?15:44
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saggiOK, thanks everybody15:45
yuvalthanks, cya15:45
chenying bye15:45
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:45
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jan 24 15:45:45 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:45
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-01-24-15.03.html15:45
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-01-24-15.03.txt15:45
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-01-24-15.03.log.html15:45
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stevemar#startmeeting keystone18:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Jan 24 18:01:39 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is stevemar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:01
stevemarping ping agrebennikov, amakarov, annakoppad, antwash, ayoung, bknudson, breton, browne, chrisplo, crinkle, davechen, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, edtubill, gagehugo, gyee, henrynash, hrybacki, jamielennox, jaugustine, jgrassler, knikolla, lamt, lbragstad, kbaikov, ktychkova, morgan, nisha, nkinder, notmorgan, raildo, ravelar, rderose, rodrigods, roxanaghe, samueldmq, shaleh, spilla, srwilkers, StefanPaetowJisc,18:01
stevemar stevemar, topol, portdirect, SamYaple18:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:01
stevemar#agenda https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting18:02
stevemar#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting18:02
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stevemarquickly do announcements i suppose18:02
stevemar#topic announcements18:02
*** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:02
stevemartoday is the last week for ocata-3 and keystoneclient!18:02
stevemarwe'll be releasing both on thursday18:03
stevemarwe've got a few major patches that need to get in18:03
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stevemarhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/409874/ (add domaind_id to user table)18:03
stevemarhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/423705/ (refactor shadow user tests)18:03
stevemarhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/423708/ (set domain for federated users)18:03
stevemarhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/403916/ (PCI: force password reset) (has +2) (and a -1)18:03
lbragstad#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-sprint-to-ocata18:04
stevemarhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/424334/ (code defined resource specific options)18:04
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stevemarso it18:04
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stevemarso it's an all-hands on deck sort of week :)18:04
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bretoni would like to ask to review one more -- https://review.openstack.org/#/c/415545/18:04
bretonor decide what we do with it, if https://review.openstack.org/#/c/423708/ doesn't go in18:05
stevemarbreton: add it to the etherpad18:05
rderosebreton: federated user will belong to a domain soon18:05
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stevemari will release keystoneclient soon, no necessary work there18:05
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morganrderose: replied to your comment(s)18:05
morgan(whoopse meant that to be in -keystone)18:06
rderosemorgan: thanks18:06
lbragstadspilla had a patch that needed to go in keystoneclient for the password expires query stuff18:06
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stevemarlbragstad: add it to the etherpad too18:06
stevemari didn't see that one18:06
stevemarthanks for the heads up18:06
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stevemari'll postpone the ksc release until its in then18:07
morganftr, i am very close to a -2 on the password expires on first use due to it lumping more fucntionality on a terrible config option.18:07
ayoungspilla, +2 from me.  Nice18:07
stevemarmorgan: yeah, i think that's the most bumpable from me18:07
morgani have been working on a way to unwind it.18:07
morganbut it depends on if we want to land the code i've been working on and do the deprecation18:07
morgani didn't -2 since it was possible to unwind it.18:07
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ayoungmorgan, I can +2 that -2.18:08
morganbut if we're not i'd like to hold until pike18:08
morganayoung: hehee18:08
rderosemorgan: I'm happy to deprecate and use the new options list if we can get that in18:08
stevemarrderose: sounds like a plan18:09
morganyeah, lets see how we go on that front w/ dstanek and i'll solicit a review from ayoung too18:09
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stevemarmorgan: happy to review18:09
morganstevemar: i assumed you would :P18:09
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stevemar#topic ptg18:09
*** openstack changes topic to "ptg (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:09
ayoungrderose, when did you get the OK to go ahead with Triggers?  I'm OK with it, in general, but I thought there was real pushback. Are we just ignoring that, or have we convince d the amorphous OTHERS that it  is the only way18:09
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rderosethe okay or the force to use trigger?18:10
morganayoung: didn't convince, we didn't -2 it18:10
ayoungrderose, yes18:10
morganayoung: they went forward because not enough push back18:10
ayoungmorgan, you still against?18:10
morganayoung: oh well. not worth fighting it now18:10
morgani am, but it's landed and has prior art in newton18:10
knikollathis takes 2 seconds to review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/424704/ and was slipped in by my previous change18:10
morgani'm not foinf to force the issue18:10
rderoseayoung: since triggers was the agreed upon approach for zero downtime, had to implement18:10
ayoungmorgan, rderose OK..then I can get behind that patch stack18:11
morgantriggers are still terrible imsho18:11
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ayoungknikolla, +2A18:11
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knikollaayoung: thanks!18:12
stevemarokay, back to ptg18:12
ayoungSo...I am not going to the PTG.18:12
stevemaranyone else not going?18:12
morgani need to book a plane ticket18:12
bknudsonI got approval to go so plan to be there18:12
brownei'll be there18:12
* breton waiting for visa18:12
bknudsonlooks like it's in the same place where lbragstad got stabbed.18:12
lbragstadbknudson ack18:13
rderoseayoung: that sucks18:13
stevemarbknudson: really? thats surprising to hear :)18:13
knikollai'm going18:13
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stevemarbknudson: (about the approval, not lbragstad's stabbing)18:13
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lbragstadthe flashbacks have already started18:13
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morganwait lbragstad was stabbed? wut did I miss?18:13
* rodrigods not going18:13
stevemarhe actually didn't18:13
lbragstadmorgan it was terrible18:13
stevemarrodrigods: :(18:13
rodrigodsayoung was supposed to go18:13
stevemarsounds like we'll have more people at ptg than the last summit18:14
ayoungrodrigods, yeah, was hoping to hand on my ticket, too18:14
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lbragstadI have approval and my trip is booked, so i'll be there18:14
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stevemar#topic Pike PTG etherpad18:14
*** openstack changes topic to "Pike PTG etherpad (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:14
stevemarlbragstad: you're up18:15
lbragstadok - this has been around for a few weeks18:15
lbragstad#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-pike-ptg18:15
lbragstadayoung ^18:15
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ayoungyeah, I'm either too fast or too slow18:15
lbragstadwant to make sure people have had the chance to absorb it before we start grouping things into buckets and start planning18:15
* stevemar has to dial into org meeting, apparently there are 150 on the call18:16
armstrongHello is this the scientific-wg meeting?18:16
ayoungarmstrong, not yet18:16
ayoungarmstrong, keystone18:16
stevemararmstrong: nope, keystone time18:16
lbragstadarmstrong nope - this is the keystone team meeting18:16
armstrongok thanks18:16
stevemarlbragstad: i was going to wait until after this week to start adding to the etherpad18:16
lbragstadso that's all I really have for that, just a reminder for folks to look into the etherpad and make sure we have everything we want to talk abou ton there18:17
lbragstadstevemar cool18:17
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lbragstadstevemar that's it for me then18:17
samueldmqI've added somehting about having a pool of ideas for outreachy/gsoc programs18:17
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samueldmqit'd be nice to have internships going from times to times :)18:17
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nishaYadavsamueldmq, oh, that's nice18:18
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stevemarlbragstad: there was https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-ocata-summit-brainstorm from last summit18:18
samueldmqnishaYadav: :)18:18
stevemarwe could also look at the existing backlog18:18
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lbragstadstevemar ++18:18
stevemarlbragstad: done on this topic?18:19
lbragstadstevemar I can take an action item to parse that and add backlogged topics from the last summit18:19
lbragstadstevemar yeah18:19
stevemar#topic Should we move to storyboard18:19
*** openstack changes topic to "Should we move to storyboard (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:19
stevemarlbragstad: your item again18:19
dstanek++ to storyboard18:20
morganplease not fungi and my comment18:20
lbragstaddiablo_rojo pinged me with a bunch of information about story board18:20
morganit is highly recomended we do not move until the minimum VMT requirements are met18:20
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morgansince keystone is VMT managed18:20
lbragstadmorgan sure - that's valid18:20
morgani am a huge fan of storyboard over LP provided the VMT minimums are met18:20
morganfor keystone18:21
fungiyeah, i believe the point of diablo_rojo's questions was to ferret out whether there are any additional blockers the keystone team might have above and beyond other already identified blockers18:21
lbragstadthe main thing diablo_rojo was asking in his note was if there was anything else we could think of that needs to be added to storyboard18:21
diablo_rojoIt would be awesome if you all could take a look to see if there is anything else that keystone needs besides VMT support :)18:21
lbragstadfungi ++18:21
samueldmqwhat is VMT ?18:21
morganvulnerability management team18:21
lbragstadvulnerability management team18:21
lbragstadso - i spent a bunch of time playing with it last week18:22
lbragstadi encourage others to do the same18:22
morgandiablo_rojo: iow, i personally don't see anything needed for keystone besides the features the VMT requires, but i'll defer to other cores18:22
lbragstadalso there is a bunch of good resources in the etherpad18:22
samueldmqlbragstad: link ?18:22
lbragstad#link https://storyboard-blog.sotk.co.uk/why-storyboard-for-openstack.html18:22
stevemarsame opinion morgan18:22
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knikollai generally like new shiny toys18:22
diablo_rojomorgan, noted :)18:23
lbragstad#link sandbox https://storyboard-dev.openstack.org/#!/board/list18:23
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fungiyeah, we need people getting familiar with it. for projects like keystone i expect the main determining factor will be that you share quite a few lp bugs with other teams (nova, oslo, cinder, whatever) and will need to wait until you're all ready to migrate together18:23
lbragstadfungi diablo_rojo would keystone be migrated to the existing deployment here - https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2000814 ?18:23
fungilbragstad: yes18:23
lbragstadfungi cool18:23
diablo_rojofungi,  beat me to it :)18:24
fungiother more tangential/ancillary teams are free to start migrating sooner since they have less overlap18:24
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lbragstadif anyone decides to play with it and has feedback - feel free to pass it along to me and I can aggregate the notes18:24
ayoungJust do it18:24
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ayoungwe are never going to close 968696 anyway18:24
fungiinfra migrated a couple years ago and have been dogfooding it for some time already, to increasing levels of success18:24
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nishaYadavlbragstad, will try18:24
knikollafungi: unrelated question. is it available for non-big-tent teams?18:25
fungiknikolla: yes18:25
diablo_rojolbragstad, that would be a huge help if you wanna be my point of contact :)18:25
lbragstadfwiw - i think the concept of worklists is going to be super nice18:25
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samueldmqso the idea is that we partially migrate for next cycle ?18:25
lbragstad(a worklist for a release for example)18:26
samueldmqkeeping VMT related bugs in LP ?18:26
lbragstaddiablo_rojo yeah - i can do that18:26
ayoungwhat is the relationship going to be between Specs and Storyboard?18:26
diablo_rojosamueldmq, I would think you would want to wait so that you aren't using two tools at once, but I would think that would be okay. fungi?18:27
morganayoung: hopefully stories can encompass specs18:27
morganbut i am unsure if that is really the case18:27
fungiyeah, how to migrate private lp bugs is still up in the air since the migration tool isn't able to query them. sb does support creating private stories already for quite some time18:27
ayoungmorgan, so we are not going to submit them via Gerrit once we migrate?18:27
lbragstadI believe we will create a story in storyboard for a feature, but the description can still ink to the detailed specification in the keystone-specs repo (I could be corrected by fungi or diablo_rojo though)18:27
morgani would hope that would be the case ayoung18:27
samueldmqdiablo_rojo: that makes sense. is there support for it upstream ? (is it just anything to be enabled in OpenStack's storyboad)18:27
samueldmqor does it need to be implemented yet ?18:27
morganlong term i would like to see the gerrit reviews drop18:27
morganand just use stories18:28
morganbut there will be transition regardless18:28
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fungilbragstad: yep, and for infra specs we create a specs repo task in the story as teh first task18:28
ayoungGah...can't we use one tool. lbragstad lets lock the git repo, and just use storyboard.  Gerrit is tough way to edit what should be collaborative documents18:28
ayoungblueprints die, too18:28
morganfungi: i would like to just work so there is no longer a keystone-specs repo18:28
morganfungi: tbh18:28
lbragstadfungi do you break stories across worklists then (per release, backlog, accepted, etc..)?18:28
morganfungi: it would be nice if stories could fill that need18:28
morgandiablo_rojo: ^ i can talk with you on specifics for that18:29
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* morgan has always hated needing multiple (3?) methods of documenting work18:29
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fungiright, infra's "feature" stories are very hollow. they just link to/from a spec and then gerrit auto-updates the tasks in the story as they're implemented for tracking purposes18:29
morganfungi: ah cool18:29
ayoungOK...close out Ocata with existing toolchain, all Pike+ work on storyboard?  We ready for it?18:29
lbragstadwe'd have to have some way to denote state in a story for "accepted" or "bumped" specs18:29
fungiinfra's use of worklists and boards has been fairly ad-hoc so far. they're getting used more heavily for the zuul v3/nodepool v1 implementation work for example18:30
morganfungi: i'd like to see that inverted personally. i really dislike the specs-repo. gerrit is a bad tool for that.. but SB can grow to fill that need eventually18:30
diablo_rojolbragstad, I think you could just move the story to a different worklist18:30
stevemarfungi: is there tooling to move existing bugs and bps to storyboard?18:30
lbragstaddiablo_rojo oh - good point (that reminds me of trello)18:30
diablo_rojomorgan, definitely a direction it could take.18:30
morganto begin with best bet is going to be move bugs/work -> SB18:30
diablo_rojolbragstad, I <3 trello :)18:30
morganand keep specs repo for now18:30
fungistevemar: yes, we have an import script for lp bugs, though not for blueprints i don't think18:30
lbragstaddiablo_rojo so does dstanek!18:31
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morganfungi: bps can die in keystone18:31
morganas long as we do the switch at a release marker18:31
morgani'm ok with bps being left behind18:31
morgan(we tend to close non-active ones now)18:31
stevemarmorgan: some BPs are actually good ideas18:31
morganand use them just as a "hey X patch is associated to them"18:31
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stevemarwe would need to vet each of the open BPs (there are about 75 i think)18:32
morganstevemar: manual resubmission (those are far anf few w/o a spec already)18:32
fungistoryboard's boards feature is fairly basic trello-like kanban, with the addition that you can have cards automatically transition between colum,ns as the story tasks change state (usually triggered automatically by changes being proposed to or merging in gerrit)18:32
fungiif that's of interest18:32
lbragstadfungi I like that18:32
diablo_rojoA much nicer organization and flow than lp18:32
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fungithe subteam in infra working on zuul v3 have been doing more and more with automatic worklists and boards, so they can probably provide some better evaluations of what it's like for real-world use. i haven't done much but skim them so far18:33
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lbragstadis the api documented somewhere?18:34
stevemarwell OK, sounds like we can move to LP maybe during the PTG timeframe (before ideally)18:35
lbragstadi know various folks here have their own tools for pulling info from launchpad, so those would need to be rewritten to talk to storyboard18:35
stevemarwill LP be open for people to report bugs? like users and operator?18:35
lbragstadLP or storyboard?18:36
stevemari can't imagine this change will go over well with them :)18:36
diablo_rojostevemar, they will be able to report them in SB18:36
samueldmqstevemar: lbragstad perhaps we could use one of the Fridays/sprints for bugs for the initialmigration ?18:36
lbragstador are you talking about after the migration?18:36
Zaralbragstad: it is documented, will get link now (hi!)18:36
lbragstadZara thanks!18:36
stevemarlbragstad: talking about after18:36
lbragstadstevemar ah - good question18:36
Zaralbragstad: http://docs.openstack.org/infra/storyboard/webapi/v1.html18:36
diablo_rojoZara, the queen of storyboard :)18:36
stevemardiablo_rojo: have you received feedback from ops and users about the SB move?18:37
stevemarwill it require a new id?18:37
Zaradiablo_rojo: hah, I only know where the docs are18:37
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lbragstadright now it bases auth on ubuntu ONe18:37
diablo_rojostevemar, Not a whole lot yet, thats another thing that's on my todo list :)18:38
lbragstadbut it sounds like we can switch that to the OpenStackID auth system18:38
bknudsondoesn't even use keystone for authentication.18:38
diablo_rojostevemar, it should be the same id18:38
stevemardiablo_rojo: okay cool18:38
samueldmq bknudson ++18:38
lbragstadbknudson good?18:38
diablo_rojolbragstad, yep OpenStackID will rule all18:38
stevemari just don't want our consumers thinking this is yet-another-openstack-tooling-change :P18:38
stevemarunless theres a large benefit18:38
ayoungdiablo_rojo, has it been reimplemented in a reasonable IdP yet?18:39
fungiright, auth will initially be openid via lp because we need to keep account parity when we're importing bugs, but after the import is done teh plan is to switch it to openstackid.org authentication18:39
diablo_rojostevemar, understandable. I think this change has been a long time coming. There are a lot of things that SB sets out to fix that LP struggled with.18:39
lbragstadi think ttx does a good job explaining that in #link https://storyboard-blog.sotk.co.uk/why-storyboard-for-openstack.html18:39
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diablo_rojoayoung, IdP ?18:39
samueldmqfungi: nice, makes sense18:39
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stevemarmy worry is that folks will bail on filing a bug because they dont want to do a bit of extra work18:39
ayoungdiablo_rojo, openstackid was using some proprietary 3rd party hard to work with implementation18:40
stevemarwe already have a hard time getting feedback from users and operators18:40
diablo_rojolbragstad, stevemar yes, I plan on pointing out that article.18:40
ayoungIdP is Identity Provider18:40
diablo_rojostevemar, I want to do a talk on storyboard at the summit and then again at the ops meetup18:40
stevemardiablo_rojo: okie :)18:40
fungidiablo_rojo: ayoung: there is a separate but related effort to reimplement the openid provider piece of openstackid with ipsilon, though that effort is currently stalling for available interested devs18:40
ayoungfungi, Yay!18:41
fungithere is a poc ipsilon server up with some minimal glue to query the openstackid backend, and an emerging puppet module for deploying it, but that's as far as it's gotten18:41
diablo_rojoayoung, so if you are interested in a little bit of work on the side we would love you to get involved ;)18:42
stevemarso many bookmarks will be deleted :|18:42
fungithe idea there being that we would do a seamless transition for the openid provider interface when the time comes, so that effort can proceed in parallel18:42
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ayoungdiablo_rojo, ask nkinder.18:43
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diablo_rojoayoung, ha ha okay :)18:44
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stevemaralright, i think we can move to open discussion18:45
stevemar#topic open discussion18:45
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:45
rderoseplease welcome antwash_ (anthony), he was recently added to our team from qa (intel). he'll now be 100% on keytone.18:45
stevemarohhh just when i thought we were going to end early18:45
stevemarhi antwash_ !18:45
rderoseany good hazing ideas?18:45
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samueldmqrderose: nice!18:46
lbragstadi could come up with a few18:46
antwash_haha -- thanks for the intro ron! Hey everyone -- very happy to be apart of the team :)18:46
samueldmqantwash_:  welcome aboard!18:46
stevemarantwash_: it's customary to buy the incoming and outgoing ptl a beer at the ptg/summit -- just saying18:46
bretoni want to discuss https://pp.vk.me/c837734/v837734937/1d76a/ZYkP7Ez5HpU.jpg18:46
bretonoh wow18:46
bretonnot this18:46
breton(don't pin that visa photo for darts)18:46
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stevemarbreton: you look more aerodynamic18:47
morganbreton: nice!18:47
antwash_stevemar : haha I got you a nice cold one promise18:47
rderosebreton: what happened!18:47
stevemarbreton: if rderose's patch merges, it'll add domain id to federated users, do we still need yours?18:47
rderosebreton: how much did you pay for that haircut?18:48
stevemarrderose: he clearly lost a bet18:48
bretonstevemar: yes. Federated users still need to be in the groups18:48
samueldmqstevemar: "breton: you look more aerodynamic" this is the best comment ever possible :-)18:48
bretonrderose: $10 :p18:48
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rderosehaha you paid too much18:48
ayoungTrusts for Federated users should be solved by rderose 's current efforts18:48
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ayoungbreton, is there anything you need beyond that?18:49
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ayoungyou are adding groups to the identity via mapped...I think that is OK18:49
bretonayoung: no, only add federated users to groups when they authenticate18:49
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ayoungbreton, you might need to be forgiving there:18:50
ayoungif groups don't exist...I know that has come up18:50
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stevemarbreton: got it, that makes sense18:50
bretoni would rebase the patch on rderose's, but i am not sure that it will get in18:50
ayoungI think https://review.openstack.org/#/c/415545/2/keystone/identity/core.py  will be superceded by rderose work18:50
ayoungyou will always have a domain18:50
bretoni agree18:51
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stevemarbreton: i will release ocata with rderose's patch18:51
bretoni just want the patch to get merged in Ocata18:51
ayoungbreton, so rebase on his changes, please18:51
stevemarbreton: we won't release ocata without rderose's patch18:51
breton(and backport it to newton)18:51
bretonok, sounds good. Will rebase.18:52
stevemarbreton: backporting won't happen since it depends no a migration :918:52
bretonstevemar: can we backport with https://review.openstack.org/#/c/415545/2/keystone/identity/core.py ?18:52
bretonthe patch actuall works even for Mitaka18:52
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ayoungbreton, oh18:52
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bretonpeople are now testing it for a customer who ran into the issue18:53
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stevemarbreton: eh... you're going to be doing that same check all over the place18:53
stevemareven in clients18:53
stevemari don't think its a good backport candidate18:54
bretonok, i am good with what we have decided for the main patch. I will rebase and then will propose a backport and we'll talk about it18:54
stevemarokay with me18:55
breton(and sorry for the photo. stupid ctrl+v)18:55
breton(aerodynamics is cool indeed)18:55
stevemarit gave us some lulz18:55
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stevemaronly because we were not expecting it :)18:55
stevemaranyone else?18:56
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stevemarantwash_: it's also customary that the outgoing ptl's beer be served in a pitcher18:56
stevemarok ok, enough with the jokes stevemar18:57
stevemarlets wrap up ocata and ship it!18:57
stevemarthanks for coming everyone ! and for your hard work that will happen this week :)18:57
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"18:57
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jan 24 18:57:51 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:57
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-01-24-18.01.html18:57
antwash_stevemar: Well you got yourself a deal, 3 pitchers of beer it is18:57
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-01-24-18.01.txt18:57
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-01-24-18.01.log.html18:57
stevemarantwash_: now we're talking!18:58
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fungiinfra team, congeal!19:00
* jeblair oozes on over19:00
fungitopics this week from jeblair and clarkb19:00
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fungialso i'm disorganized today, so moving slowly. apologies19:01
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fungi#startmeeting infra19:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Jan 24 19:02:22 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:02
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:02
fungi#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting19:02
fungi#topic Announcements19:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)"19:02
fungii don't have any for this week19:02
fungias always, feel free to hit me up with announcements you want included in future meetings19:02
clarkbfungi: we are likely to be mostly afk next week19:03
fungiyep, i was going to make a call for substitute chairs during open discussion19:03
fungias i will almost certainly be unable to run the meeting next tuesday due to quarterly employer-mandated in-person meeting time19:04
fungi#topic Actions from last meeting19:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:04
fungi#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-01-17-19.04.html19:04
fungifungi Obtain docs.openstack.org X.509 certificate.19:04
fungifungi Obtain developer.openstack.org X.509 certificate.19:04
fungii've done both of those19:04
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fungithey're in the certs directory on puppetmaster.o.o and i'm working on the change to consume them from hiera now19:05
fungiwhile i was at it i updated the soon-expiring ask.o.o and zuul.o.o certs19:05
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fungipabelanger: i also got the requested cert for trystack.org, need to figure out how we want to do that redirect19:06
fungiright now the trystack domains are incorrectly configured as vhost aliases rather than permanent redirects19:06
fungi#action fungi announce the infra ptg pike etherpad to relevant mailing lists.19:06
fungii plan to get to that later today after the tc meeting wraps up19:07
fungijeblair mark http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/nodepool-zookeeper-workers.html implemented19:07
fungithat was done and approved yesterday19:07
jeblairi did a thing!19:07
fungimordred make the temporary branch for the Nodepool v3 shim.19:07
fungii see a feature/gearman-zk-shim branch in openstack-infra/nodepool19:08
jeblairthat thing has happened: feature/gearman-zk-shim19:08
fungiso that seems to be done, yes19:08
fungi#action fungi plumb https for docs.o.o and developer.o.o19:08
fungithat ought to be done in the next couple days depending on who reviews19:08
fungi#topic Specs approval19:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)"19:09
fungii have a few to report here... just a sec while i organize urls19:09
fungi#info Ethercalc spec approved19:10
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fungi#link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/ethercalc.html Ethercalc spec19:10
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fungi#info ABANDONED "Nodepool launch and delete workers" spec19:11
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fungi#link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/nodepool-launch-workers.html "Nodepool launch and delete workers" spec19:11
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pabelangerfungi: great19:11
fungi#info "Nodepool: Image build and upload workers" spec moved to implemented19:12
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fungi#link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/nodepool-workers.html "Nodepool: Image build and upload workers" spec19:12
fungier, wrong one19:12
openstackRemoving item from minutes: #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/nodepool-workers.html19:12
openstackRemoving item from minutes: #info "Nodepool: Image build and upload workers" spec moved to implemented19:12
jeblairso many specs19:13
fungi#info "Nodepool: Use Zookeeper for Workers" spec moved to implemented19:13
fungi#link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/nodepool-zookeeper-workers.html "Nodepool: Use Zookeeper for Workers" spec19:13
fungithat's the one i meant ;)19:13
fungi#topic Specs approval: PROPOSED Update zuulv3 spec to include job repo information (jeblair)19:14
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval: PROPOSED Update zuulv3 spec to include job repo information (jeblair) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:14
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/410442 Update zuulv3 spec to include job repo information19:14
fungifairly small but important clarification/addition19:14
jeblairi realized we'd been talking about how zuul preps all the repos for a job, but didn't actually write that in the spec.  :)19:15
fungialready has several rollcall votes19:15
jeblairhopefully this is not surprising19:15
fungianybody think it needs to incubate in review longer?19:15
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fungiseems likely already an unspoken consensus19:15
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fungi#info Infra Council voting is open on "Update zuulv3 spec to include job repo information" spec update until 19:00 UTC Thursday, January 26.19:16
fungiany related questions before i move on?19:16
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* jhesketh adds it to his review list 19:18
fungi#topic Priority Efforts19:18
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Meeting topic: infra)"19:18
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fungii don't see any updates in here today, though i did clear the19:18
fungi"Nodepool: Use Zookeeper for Workers" priority effort from the agenda now that it's implemented19:18
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fungi#topic Ethercalc Deployment (clarkb)19:19
*** openstack changes topic to "Ethercalc Deployment (clarkb) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:19
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clarkbhello, just wanted to get this in front of people as trying to get this up soonish to be used for ptg related activities19:19
fungi#link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/ethercalc.html Ethercalc spec19:19
clarkbthere are two changes I have up that could use review. The first updates the puppet module to run an ethercalc and the other is system-config to actually deploy it19:19
clarkb#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/422921/19:20
clarkb#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/424800/19:20
fungilooks like those need their topic set to match the one from the spec19:20
clarkbfungi: oh good point19:20
clarkbI will do that19:20
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:ethercalc19:20
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fungi(will actually display those changes once topical)19:21
clarkbthe other thing I wanted to ask about was how robust do we think we need to make ther service. Right now it uses a colocated redis server without authentication (relying on firewall to avoid outsdie connections) and doesn't have redis backups19:21
fungiredis is taking the place of mysql in etherpadland?19:21
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clarkbI think the firewall is sufficient for now rather than password authing. And maybe we don't need backups if we are just testing this out for a single event?19:22
clarkbfungi: correct19:22
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fungii.e., storing all the spreadsheet data?19:22
fungibackups seem useful19:22
jeblairi'd like to have backups for that data19:22
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clarkbthe two options are slow direct writes to disk (for testing) or redis for more rpduction like qualities. No mysql option19:22
clarkbok I will bump backups up the priority list as my next task there19:23
fungi#link https://www.npmjs.com/package/redis-dump Dump redis database into redis commands or json with command line or node.js19:23
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fungioh, wait, is redis implemented in javascript? or just something javascripty people use a lot?19:24
fungithough i guess ethercalc is node.js at least19:24
clarkbits not a js service just popular with that crowd19:24
clarkblooks like redis already snapshots to disk and those snapshots are viable backups so I just need to set up bup19:24
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fungioh, simple enough19:25
jeblairoh that's cool19:25
clarkbrather than needing an explicit db dump type action like you would have with a mysql server19:25
fungiin that case19:25
openstackRemoving item from minutes: #link https://www.npmjs.com/package/redis-dump19:25
jeblairclarkb: there are rotating snapshots?19:25
jeblair(so if bup runs while snapshot N is being written, N-1 is still untouched and viable (if old)?)19:25
clarkbjeblair: yes I think so, but I will confirm19:26
clarkbit however doesn't keep N-30, so we'd rely on bup for that19:26
jeblairyeah, the ideal thing for bup actually would just be N-119:26
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jeblair(so it isn't diffing 30 different backups)19:26
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jeblairthough something...something... git...packing...19:27
clarkbthats about all I had, reviews requested and will work on making sure that backups are a thing19:27
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fungiokay, cool. i guess we don't have any other questions on ethercalc19:30
fungii think i've reviewed those puppet changes already, but will make sure19:30
fungi#topic Open discussion19:30
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)"19:30
fungias mentioned earlier, i'll be sequestered for most of next week so don't expect me to respond much on irc and mailing lists19:31
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fungii'll need a volunteer to chair next week's infra meeting19:31
clarkbas will I19:31
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jlvillalJust curious when a new release of gerritbot will happen.19:32
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jlvillalOr whatever action is needed for latest gerritbot to be active :)19:33
clarkbI believe that is the action, if there is no objection to making a release I can probably do that today19:34
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jlvillalCool :)19:34
fungijlvillal: looks like we could stand to tag a new release. looks like we're running 0.2.1.dev13 probably manually installed19:34
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fungilooks like the puppet manifest just does an ensure=>present right now so isn't auto-upgrading19:35
fungithat likely ought to get revisited19:35
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dimsmany thanks to the infra and project-config teams, we have a gate-tempest-dsvm-py35-ubuntu-xenial-nv now that seems to be holding up19:36
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clarkb#action clarkb make a gerritbot release19:37
ianwi wouldn't mind another eye or two on https://review.openstack.org/424431 <- run wheel build in parallel.  currently that job is timing out19:37
clarkbianw: I have added to my list (will revie after lunch)19:37
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ianwalso i'm not sure if anyone has an opinion on https://review.openstack.org/423904 <- add bindep virtualenv to wheel slaves19:38
ianwi think the concern is that we're installing packages on a long-lived slave from requirements19:38
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clarkbya as much as possible I think we want to try and use distro pacakges19:40
clarkbwhich is what bindep does19:40
clarkbso kind of a chicken and egg there19:40
fungiyeah, the risk is that the requirements reviewers might be able to squeeze in a package that backdoors the server and then the mirrors19:41
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* ianw doesn't mention the d-word19:41
fungithough that mirror building job already does plenty of other risky things by running a script from the requirements repo and installing packages from pypi into a virtualenv to build up the wheel cache, right?19:42
fungiwhich is why we make those nodes separate from our other static nodes19:43
ianwit doesn't run a script, just reads the requirements files19:43
fungiwell, one of te reasons anyway19:43
fungioh, i thought the job payload called a script in the reqs repo19:43
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clarkbno it just runs a pip wheel global-requirements --cache-dir /some/path iirc19:44
fungibut on second look, those scripts are in project-config19:44
ianwfungi:  i can see the sneak attack ... but it would have to *also* be a sneak attack into a distro package?  because we're fundamentally just "yum/apt-get install"19:44
fungianyway, the bigger risk already present is that pip install, even with a virtualenv, is still running arbitrary code from pypi packages (invoking setup.py)19:45
persiaDistro packages also run arbitrary code from distro packages (maintainer scripts), but more exploration of any of this probably requires publication, and so should be avoided in this forum :)19:46
fungibasically a new release of anything listed in upper-constraints.txt could do just about anything (and probably more) than we're risking by using bindep19:47
fungiand i do agree there is an unpleasantness to having to constantly maintain parity between the packages listed in the puppet module for deploying that node and the bindep file in the requirements repo19:48
ianwpip is at least user-only, as opposed to pkg manager19:49
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fungiyeah, but the job user on that node has access to the only data of any value on the machine19:49
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fungiso denying it root access doesn't really buy us anything19:49
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fungiother than some assurance a job doesn't break the server19:50
fungiit's just the first time (to my knowledge) we'll have a job running on a static node installing distro packages at job runtime19:50
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fungiso reviewers are justifiably concerned and trying to consider possible corner cases19:51
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ianwyep.  i've been trying to think how we could we do the building on a regular slave somehow19:52
ianwwhich also seems better because it has up-to-date packages19:53
fungithe credential handling in zuul v3 probably makes this easier to switch to single-use nodes19:53
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fungiso i'm leaning toward just bindep'ing in that job given the other safeguards we already have in place and teh existing known risks which are in my opinion at least as serious if not moreso19:54
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ianwand maybe a longer term goal of either moving it towards any work we do with docker containers or using new stuff to convert to single-use slaves19:55
fungimy bigger concern is there exists some slippery slope here19:55
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fungijust because we're using bindep in the wheel mirror building jobs doesn't mean the same considerations hold for unrelated jobs running on other static nodes19:56
fungiso need to make sure it doesn't get used as an unqualified precedent19:56
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fungi3 minutes remaining before the next meeting. last call for volunteers to chair this meeting in my absence next week19:57
ianwi can call that out in a comment in the puppet19:57
persiaThat it builds a mirror is a useful distinction, because most of the security holes predume access to modify the mirror content anyway.19:57
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fungiand we're out of time. thanks everyone!20:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jan 24 20:00:04 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-01-24-19.02.html20:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-01-24-19.02.txt20:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-01-24-19.02.log.html20:00
ttxdhellmann, dims, dtroyer, EmilienM, flaper87, fungi, johnthetubaguy, mtreinish, sdague, stevemar, thingee: around ?20:00
ttxmordred is excused20:00
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fungii'm inexcusable20:00
ttx#startmeeting tc20:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jan 24 20:00:38 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:00
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*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"20:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'20:00
ttxHi everyone!20:00
ttxOur agenda for today is at:20:00
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee20:01
ttxlots to cover so let's get started and go quick20:01
* edleafe hides in plain sight20:01
mtreinishbut I'll have to leave a bit early to pack for my flight home in a few hours20:01
ttxmtreinish: I'll rearrange the ddschedule to handle the goals first then20:01
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ttx#topic 2nd Pike goal20:02
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*** openstack changes topic to "2nd Pike goal (Meeting topic: tc)"20:02
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mtreinishttx: thanks20:02
ttxSo we need to pick our second Pike goal20:02
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ttxsplit out tempest plugins20:02
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/36974920:02
ttxor deploy-api-in-wsgi20:02
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/41970620:02
ttxEmilienM: what's the status there ?20:02
EmilienMttx: stauts on wsgi goal:20:03
EmilienMI sent an email to PTLs to give feedback20:03
EmilienMa very few paid attention :/20:03
EmilienMbut at least we had positive feedback20:03
ttxcould be seen as a good sign20:03
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EmilienMI think I've addressed all comments in the reviews, if not please let me know major concerns20:03
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EmilienMI've seen some thoughts about "focusing on Apache webserver"20:03
ttxdo you feel like it's less contentious than the tempest goal ?20:03
EmilienMreminder: this goal doesn't tell you to deploy Apache20:03
* stevemar sneaks in20:04
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EmilienMthe tempest goal currently has negative feedback (not sure if it's negative or just under discussion)20:04
ttxmy read on the tempest goal is that there are people unhappy with the way tempest works and not wanting to make any further "progress" in that direction20:04
flaper87fwiw, as it is right now, I'd pick this goal over the tempest one20:04
fungiwith current infra ptl hat on, neither proposed goal seemed relevant to infra projects so i haven't commented. i bet there are lots of teams in the same boat. both seem like fine goals though20:04
smcginnisflaper87: +120:05
dtroyerfungi ++ (as PTL)20:05
ttxso they resist the goal20:05
EmilienMI think the 2 goals are good and we want them. Just pick one that has agreement I would say20:05
dimsagree flaper8720:05
EmilienMdtroyer, fungi: yes, no worries. I'm more concerned about projects that have API service.20:05
flaper87This goal is simple enough to pair with the py3.5 goal, it is simple enough for the second round of community goals and it's also extremely valuable (not that the tempest one isn't )20:05
stevemarthe wsgi goal has more deployer impact20:05
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ttxfine doing lazy progress on the tempest one -- the wsgi goal is more user-visible20:05
EmilienMand to be honest, people can still make the tempest goal in Pike if they can20:05
fungiand the tempest goal more dev impact20:05
EmilienMnothing will stop them20:05
stevemarEmilienM: yep!20:05
johnthetubaguyso on the tempest one, my -1 is a technical one, not a directional one20:06
mtreinishttx: they don't like how tempest works, but they use it anyway?20:06
EmilienMwhat I like with the WSGI goal, is the direct impact on ops20:06
smcginnisBases on the concerns with the tempest one, I would like to see a discussion at the PTG on that one first.20:06
dtroyerEmilienM: it sounds like the Tempest goal needs more consensus-building and pushing one cycle lets it do that20:06
mtreinishjohnthetubaguy: I did link an etherpad with the steps20:06
johnthetubaguybut I think the wsgi goal seems like bigger impact, and closer to us making progress20:06
johnthetubaguymtreinish: yeah, I reviewed that, looked good from what I remember20:06
EmilienMdtroyer: I agree20:06
ttxmtreinish: that's how I read some of the comments against "branchless tempest" yes20:06
dimsEmilienM : also helps eventually to get to point where we can have one port20:07
JayFWould the proposed WSGI goal include those services needing to be deployed into the shared devstack apache setup? Or would this just be documenting + providing configs to run an api service under wsgi?20:07
mtreinishttx: right, but that's something which won't ever change in tempest (it's been that way for years)20:07
EmilienMmaybe we can finish the tempest goal during PTG and early pike, and start preparing it during Pike to achieve it in Queen?20:07
* JayF just found the link, will RTFM20:07
EmilienMdims: ++20:07
mtreinishwe're also working on baking that into the api stability requirements20:07
* sigmavirus apologizes for tardiness20:07
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dhellmannJayF : it includes updating devstack20:07
ttxmtreinish: nor something we'd want to change. Means we might need to do some education before having it as goal20:07
dhellmannttx: ++20:07
dtroyerJayF: I read it as making the deployment possible, not requiring it be implemented in DevStack20:07
EmilienMJayF: yes, testing is the key point here20:07
dhellmanndtroyer : it needs to be testable.20:07
johnthetubaguyttx ++20:07
EmilienMdtroyer: it's the second point I think20:07
notmynameif a project has multiple individual components, will each part be deployed with mod_wsgi or is it just the user-facing part?20:08
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dtroyerdhellmann: right, I suppose I'm thinking as the default20:08
EmilienMdtroyer: in "Completion Criteria"20:08
johnthetubaguynotmyname: I read it as just the HTTP APIs20:08
ttxmtreinish: pretty sure that if the same people went through the same issues we went through they would see it the same way we do20:08
dhellmanndtroyer : it currently says to switch to using WSGI in Apache, until/unless devstack changes the container service it uses20:08
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* dtroyer sighs, makes note to re-read things before writing, like many databases20:08
dhellmannso it's targeting the state of what we have for tools, but allowing changes20:08
ttxjohnthetubaguy: my understanding too20:09
dhellmannnotmyname : control-plane APIs20:09
mtreinishttx: I'm not convinced of that, because I've seen the same objections from the same people repeatedly over the last year or so20:09
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EmilienMif people want nginx in devstack, this is out of scope now20:09
notmynamedhellmann: which could completely exclude swift, based on some previous TC discussions. or not. IDK20:09
ttxnotmyname: you already run under wsgi, no ?20:10
dhellmannnotmyname : I think EmilienM and I assumed swift was mostly data plane20:10
dhellmannttx: but not apache?20:10
EmilienMJayF: please do not consider my list of projects as accurate20:10
flaper87I guess the proxy is considered control plane, am i right ?20:10
EmilienMJayF: I did it very quickly and I'm happy to fix it in another patch20:10
ttxdhellmann: I think the latest draft doesn't mandate apache, only wsgi20:10
flaper87That said, I'd agree that this is mostly targeting control-plane APIs20:10
JayFEmilienM: it's not a big deal, just wanted to make sure you knew it wasn't true for Ironic. I filed the still-open bug about it :P20:11
dhellmannttx: draft 8 says apache on line 3220:11
ttxdhellmann: for testing iirc20:11
EmilienMJayF: ok:)20:11
* ttx looks20:11
dhellmannttx: yes, right20:11
notmynamettx: yes. and we've got docs for running under mod_wsgi (and it seems like there's som devstack support for that already built in). but we use some dusty corners of http that we don't have access to under mod_wsgi. so we'd have to keep the storage nodes running under eventlet's wsgi server. running the proxy under mod_wsgi should work (although I know of zero prod examples of this)20:11
ttxnotmyname: I think that's fair game20:12
notmynamemeaning that you can't "just use apache" for all of swift.20:12
EmilienMnotmyname: I agree with ttx20:12
dhellmannnotmyname : I think that's a reasonable response to the goal for the swift team. Doing that then documents it for anyone asking similar questions in the future.20:12
EmilienMthe goal targets API for now20:12
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EmilienMJayF: I'll fix the list in a top-patch20:13
ttxOK, I think we should select that goal. Doesn't mean we can't refine/adjust between now and PTG20:13
ttxwhat do you think ?20:13
dtroyerttx:  ++20:13
EmilienMttx: yes, it seems we have a concensus here20:14
notmynameI just don't want anyone to be surprised when some of the wsgi apps in swift (the storage servers) cannot be run under apache/mod_wsgi at all. specifically, crypto and erasure codes will not work20:14
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EmilienMnotmyname: that won't be the case, we target Rest API services now20:14
* flaper87 is sold on this goal20:14
stevemarttx: could have a vote, but i'm in favor of the mod_wsgi one20:14
ttxnotmyname: ack20:14
ttxok, please RollCall-Vote+1 on wsgi if in favor20:14
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dhellmannnotmyname : it's fine, really. like I said, we assumed there would be issues with some of the services, and specifically considered swift a likely case of "you don't want to do it that way". So when the time comes, just document that in the goal as the response.20:15
dhellmannzaqar also came up as a potentially bad fit, fwiw20:15
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notmynamedhellmann: it's another data-plane service20:15
ttxStill missing a couple votes to pass20:16
dhellmannremember, the point of these goals is not just to get everyone to do something, but to document our edge cases when we can't/shouldn't do something20:16
* sigmavirus wonders how this would affect glance20:16
lbragstaddhellmann +120:16
flaper87yeah, zaqar is not considered a control-plane service but its api uses wsgi20:17
flaper87since day 1 it's been recommended to use either apache or nginx20:17
dhellmannsigmavirus : glance also came up as a possibly bad fit, but we'll leave it up to the glance team to decide20:17
ttxAlright, let's close it20:17
flaper87so, despite being a different tipe of service it's still a good fit for the goal20:17
dhellmannflaper87 : good to know, thanks20:17
sigmavirusdhellmann: right, I'm not sure either way =P20:17
* flaper87 thinks glance should do wsgi too20:17
* flaper87 tried to do this like 3 or 4 cycles ago20:17
dhellmannsigmavirus : I predict a discussion on this topic at the PTG :-)20:17
mtreinishttx: so what is the next step for that tempest goal then?20:17
stevemarflaper87: definitely should be20:18
EmilienMgood, now we have 2 goals for Pike, thanks folks!20:18
EmilienMttx: i'll work with PTLs for the next steps20:18
flaper87EmilienM: thank you20:18
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ttxmtreinish: I think I would work on convincing people so that we can make it a Queens goal20:18
sigmavirusdhellmann: I'm sure it will be :)20:18
EmilienMand I volunteer to be liaison on $topic and give updates on ml + tc meeting when needed20:18
ttxand/or work on it project per project20:18
johnthetubaguyI few more examples of the tempest lib conversion landing before the end of pike would surely help things along20:18
EmilienMmtreinish: we need to make sure we have a session about your goal at PTG, so we can make good progress and make sure we have it in Queen20:19
mtreinishttx: with the exectption of those 3 -1s (which are really just people who don't understand the framework) everyone else is onboard20:19
johnthetubaguymtreinish: it might be the first goal to be completed without being a goal20:19
ttxmtreinish: should we encourage some projects to do their share and then handle the leftovers as a goal for Q ?20:19
mtreinishjohnthetubaguy: yeah, I'll get jroll to finish his work on that and get the ball rolling20:20
dhellmannmtreinish : if you have projects who don't understand the major testing framework within the community, that sounds like we need more education20:20
ttxin the mean time we can educate the vocal minority20:20
ttxwhat dhellmann said20:20
cdentIt's been an issue for a long time.20:20
dhellmannmtreinish : so I consider this a good outcome, for exposing that need20:20
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johnthetubaguyseems like the goal process is helping pull these problems out of the weeds, which is awesome20:20
ttxand yes, it's not as if that prevented anyone from working on it20:21
dimsttx : right20:21
ttxlet's move on20:21
mtreinishthat's true, and it's not like it's hard to implement either20:21
dhellmannright, this is very similar to what happened with python3 last time; we uncovered a need to do more prep work20:21
jrollmtreinish: there's someone (slowly) working on it, should get done early pike20:21
ttx#topic Team diversity update20:21
*** openstack changes topic to "Team diversity update (Meeting topic: tc)"20:21
ttxA few things to cover in that topic...20:21
ttxFirst we have two proposed fixes for the diversity script20:21
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/42230520:21
ttxI'll approve this one now unless there is a late objection20:21
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EmilienMship it20:22
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/42231220:22
ttxSince it is correct and we have a standing patch chain I'd rather approve this one and improve it after20:22
ttxOne more vote and I'll bypass flaper8720:22
flaper87yeah, lemme change my vote20:22
ttxWith those in, the resulting tag updates are proposed at:20:22
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/42128620:22
* dhellmann is glad to have a bunch of other folks willing to review that code20:23
ttxAny objection to those tag updates ?20:23
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flaper87s.h.i.p i.t20:23
dimsnope, ship it20:23
ttxA comment by Gordon and Emilien on that review pointed to things so inactive the stats don't mean that much20:24
EmilienM(no objection but I wanted to highlight what gordc said, some project look to be quite inactive over the last months, e.g. Solum)20:24
ttxSo I'd like to take a moment to discuss dead / low-activity teams, and what to do with them20:24
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EmilienMttx: same time :)20:24
ttxEspecially when those teams are not really central to fulfilling the OpenStack mission20:24
ttx#topic Discuss dead / low-activity teams20:24
*** openstack changes topic to "Discuss dead / low-activity teams (Meeting topic: tc)"20:24
ttxThe first one going nowhere this cycle is Solum20:24
ttxhttp://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/solum/log/ shows that most commits there are general typo / maintenance stuff20:24
dhellmannI have some stats on projects that did work but haven't done releases this cycle20:24
ttxand most ~= all20:24
ttxCould not find a single bugfix or feature20:24
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ttxSolum was always stretching a bit what we call "infrastructure"20:25
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dhellmannhttp://paste.openstack.org/show/596147/ are the changes in solum since their last release20:25
* flaper87 clicks20:25
dhellmann#link http://paste.openstack.org/show/596147/ are the changes in solum since their last release20:25
ttxI was fine with the experiment of stretching the goal posts a bit... but if it's not moving and not deployed... why continue20:25
EmilienMwe should reach Solum PTL and ask what's up20:26
stevemardhellmann: it clearly hasn't had much love in a while20:26
ttxEmilienM: yes indeed20:26
cdentIs there such a thing as stability or maturing in a project?20:26
dhellmannstevemar : they're landing patches, but it looks like mostly requirements and devstack updates20:26
dimsi think he may be asleep right now..20:26
ttxcdent: yes, some projects mature20:26
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flaper87and I believe this is a recurring issue in the solum team20:26
flaper87IIRC we also had a review like this one last cycle20:26
ttxcdent: but this one never really reached a point where it's used20:26
flaper87for solum, that is20:26
* cdent nods20:27
fungifwiw, solum has no ptl candidate proposed yet for pike20:27
mtreinishlets propose a patch to remove it from projects.yaml and discuss it from there?20:27
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dimsfungi : right20:27
dhellmannfwiw, my last act as release management ptl for this cycle will be to encourage the tc to drop projects that don't release20:27
dimsmtreinish : ++20:27
EmilienMmtreinish: I think we need to discuss before20:27
ttxyes, was just testing the waters before starting anything20:27
dimsdhellmann : ++20:27
ttxThe second one without much happening is the AppCatalog (although Murano is still alive)20:27
ttxFor the appcatalog I'll run a more thorough stakeholder analysis20:27
flaper87dhellmann: ++20:27
ttxbut I feel like if we can't do a stellar job at it, it can't compete with other more popular application marketplaces20:27
dhellmannI currently have 19 teams with unreleased changes in their deliverables, though we'll see what happens by the end of the cycle20:27
ttxmakes us look bad and competitive for no reason20:27
EmilienMdhellmann: did you send a warning?20:28
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ttxSo I'll reach out to AppCat folks and check their long-term strategy20:28
dhellmannEmilienM : I will20:28
dimsdhellmann : paste later please? (after the meeting)20:28
* EmilienM in favor of peaceful discussion before pro-active reactions20:28
ttx#action ttx to reach out to AppCatalog stakeholders on long-term strategy there20:28
dhellmannEmilienM : we had discussions with a few teams at the end of last cycle, too20:28
fungii know they had some ongoing work to switch the app catalog to using a standalone glare instance backend, but other than that i've not seen much out of them on the infra end20:28
ttxanyone taking the solum action ?20:28
dimsEmilienM : i would not want to keep poking people to make releases...20:28
EmilienMshould we have individual discusions or collective?20:28
ttxAny other project that appears dead at this point ?20:29
EmilienMdims: yeah I know20:29
dhellmannbut yeah, as dims says, the point of all the work I've been doing is to get teams to stand on their own for releases so the release managers don't have to keep begging them to cut releases20:29
dimsttx : i can take that action (solum)20:29
ttx#action dims to reach out to Solum to see if it's going anywhere20:29
fungias usual, i expect we'll see at least a handful with no ptl proposed come sunday and can have some related discussions after that20:30
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EmilienMfungi: sounds like a good plan20:30
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dimsagree fungi20:30
ttxanything else on that topic ?20:30
EmilienMgordc: thx for bringing it up20:30
gordcsure. blame me :P20:31
ttxok, moving on20:31
ttx#topic Disallow downtime of controlled resources during upgrades20:31
*** openstack changes topic to "Disallow downtime of controlled resources during upgrades (Meeting topic: tc)"20:31
ttxis dolphm around ?20:31
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/40436120:31
ttxNot much progress there since Jan 4.20:31
ttxfeels like this needs more work before being approvable20:32
ttxskip until there is some movement in it ?20:32
dhellmannwas this on the list to clear out a backlog item?20:32
ttxno it was put on the list because we skipped it twice and I was hoping we could determine what the next step is20:33
ttxbut hard to do without the proposer :)20:33
johnthetubaguyshould I reach out to dolphm about that around my comments20:33
johnthetubaguyI can take that action20:33
ttxjohnthetubaguy: that would be great yes20:33
ttx#action johnthetubaguy to reach out to dolphm re: https://review.openstack.org/404361 progress20:33
ttxwhich brings us to our next topic20:34
ttx#topic Review of stale changes20:34
*** openstack changes topic to "Review of stale changes (Meeting topic: tc)"20:34
ttxThere are a number of stale old changes opened against openstack/governance20:34
ttxI think we should only keep open changes that are ready to be considered by the TC20:34
ttx* Add minimal cold upgrade tag for Zaqar (https://review.openstack.org/333099)20:34
ttxZaqar is missing a grenade job in the gate, so probably this should be abandoned until that's added20:34
EmilienMttx: yes, Zaqar is not ready imho to have this tag20:35
ttx* Add the vulnerability:managed tag to Manila (https://review.openstack.org/350597)20:35
ttxOpen since last August, Manila needs to complete a threat analysis. I propose we abandon it until that's completed20:35
ttxunless fungi has some recent progress on that to report20:35
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funginone that's been brought to my attention20:36
ttx* Add puppet module for docker registry to infra (https://review.openstack.org/399181)20:36
ttxI'll also abandon this one, based on fungi's comment20:36
ttx* Equal Integration Chances for all Projects (https://review.openstack.org/342366)20:36
ttxOpen since last July...20:36
ttxWe said before that it's easier to handle those conflicts one by one rather than try to create magic legislation that would avoid them20:36
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mugsiettx: just abandoned it20:36
fungithanks ttx, due to the acls on the governance repo you and teh proposer are the only ones who can abandon anything i think20:36
bswartzttx: I'll follow up on that, but abandoning is fine w/ me20:36
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mugsietotally forfot it was still open20:36
ttxas it's extra hard to find wording that catches all cases20:36
ttxbswartz: note that you can easily "restore" it when ready20:37
ttxjust makes it easier for TC members to know what they should be actively reviewing20:37
ttxmugsie: thanks20:37
fungithere is a vulnerability:managed application for barbican which looks really close, but is held back on a technical issue with the governance change20:37
stevemarseems like no one knows what to do about https://review.openstack.org/#/c/421070/1 :)20:38
ttxyes I think I kept that one in the backlog20:38
fungioh, looks like it just got fixed20:38
bswartzttx: done20:38
ttxstevemar: indeed20:38
EmilienMstevemar: very complex problem20:38
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ttx#topic License for openstack/governance20:38
*** openstack changes topic to "License for openstack/governance (Meeting topic: tc)"20:38
ttxA bot proposed a LICENSE file for this repo20:38
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stevemarttx: also ptl +1'ed https://review.openstack.org/#/c/420713/20:38
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/421070/120:39
ttxany opinion on that ?20:39
dhellmannttx: I don't think we need that patch.20:39
fungidoes the bot take constructive criticism well?20:39
dhellmannwe don't release any of the software in that repo, and the scripts all have the header20:39
amrithas you said dhellmann ttx, this is bot based and I'd say abandon it.20:39
* mtreinish disappears20:39
amriththis bot is a human fungi and may take criticism20:39
ttxI mean, we have codeAlrightn abandon20:39
stevemardhellmann: yep -- any code has a licence at the top20:40
ttxI'm fine with abandoning that20:40
stevemarno deliverables, abandon20:40
ttx#topic Open discussion20:40
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)"20:40
ttxHave a few topics20:40
fungialso the LICENSE file isn't actually needed for apache license 2.0 afaik20:40
ttx* Skip next week meeting ?20:40
ttxNext week I'll be away for a Foundation offsite, same for fungi and thingee20:40
ttxShould we skip the meeting ? If not who would like to run it ?20:40
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dhellmannI may be traveling, too20:41
stevemarnext week will be all hands-on deck for most project teams i imagine20:41
dhellmannyeah, with rc1 next thurs20:41
ttxyes, busy 4-week pre-release period in Ocata20:41
EmilienMI can run it if nobody else volunteers20:41
EmilienMwho from TC thinks to be around?20:42
ttxI'll propose skipping it if nothing uregnt comes up20:42
ttx(later this week)20:42
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ttx#action ttx to propose next week meeting skip later this week if nothing urgent comes up20:42
ttxthen we can find a volunteer to run it if we have something urgent to cover :)20:43
ttx* TC+Board meeting date/meeting20:43
ttxvote still open @ https://framadate.org/bK8ziU1mhzjThdih20:43
EmilienMttx: if it's the case, i'll run it20:43
ttxI added on e option recently20:43
ttx#info EmilienM volunteers to run the meeting in case we need one20:43
flaper87FWIW, I can run the meeting if needed20:43
ttxso you may want to revisit it20:43
ttx#info flaper87 also volunteers to run the meeting in case we need one20:43
ttxExpect a decision on that meeting soon after the Board meeting today20:44
stevemarttx: nice, e option works for me :)20:44
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ttxtrying desperately to tie it to another of my US travels20:44
EmilienMttx: same as stevemar20:44
ttxbecause frankly I'm reaching Monty levels this next months20:45
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ttx* Driver teams / discoverability status20:45
ttxCouple of weeks ago we paused the discussion on driver teams, waiting for some progress on discoverability20:45
ttxis thingee around ?20:45
ttxwanted to set a next step20:46
ttxShould we plan to discuss that at some point at the PTG ? earlier ?20:46
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fungimildly concerned that neutron also wants to bow out of even providing guidance as to which drivers we should list in the marketplace20:47
fungior at least that has been the sentiment of a couple of prominent contributors anyway20:47
dhellmannfungi : I'm not sure we should leave it up to teams to say which to "include" vs. which they "support"20:47
fungii just replied to that thread attempting to find out who they think would be better suited to weigh in on drivers20:47
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fungii certainly wouldn't want the tc deciding what drivers work20:48
fungimaybe a working group of operators?20:48
dims++ fungi20:48
dhellmannfungi : "is available", "works", and "is supported" are 3 different things20:48
ttxit's tricky, not sure how that would work20:49
jbrycedhellmann: ++ that’s what i was about to try to say = )20:49
dhellmannalso "is supported upstream"  is different from "is supported by the vendor" or even "is supported downstream (not by vendor)"20:49
dhellmannI propose that the criteria for inclusion in the marketplace be that their code is hosted on our git server20:50
fungiat least for other teams, some of us were hoping they'd start to curate (or continue providing) a feature matrix of drivers20:50
jbryceand i think the weakness in discoverability up to now is we’ve gotten stuck on trying to come up with an answer for “supported” and “works” when projects handle those concepts differently20:50
dhellmannand that all of those other characteristics be listed separately20:50
dhellmannjbryce : it sounds like you're asking the tc to help standardize those definitions20:50
fungii don't see why they'd need to take advantage of our hosting just to provide a driver20:50
dhellmannfungi : that's fair, I was just proposing an objective criteria for inclusion20:51
fungii can completely understand some companies wanting to publish the source code/releases for their drivers from their own sites20:51
dhellmannI could also live with them providing minimal contact info20:51
dhellmannI do not think project teams need to get involved in the inclusion question, though20:51
jbrycedhellmann: no. i actually think “is available” is the more important piece of info that most consumers are looking for20:51
dhellmannjbryce : interesting, ok20:52
ttxyeah, don't want driver teams to be compelled to post code under our infrastructure just to be listed in the marketplace20:52
fungiright, i'd be thrilled if service teams just maintained lists of what drivers were available. that needs some sort of minimal gatekeeper familiar with how to vet the claim anyway20:52
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cdentInteresting I would think that a service team has done their job best when drivers can exist and be good when the service team is completely unaware of them.20:53
dhellmannfungi : if we want to include things that live outside of our infrastructure entirely, then I don't think it's fair to ask the contributors to the projects to keep up with that list. Those drivers seem like a part of the broader foundation mission, at that point.20:53
ttxyes, it's more a referencing exercise at that point20:54
fungiin that case i expect we'll just end up with a submission form that sticks these in a database backend and hope the authors of those drivers keep up with them20:54
dhellmannif we make the market place list centralized and let anyone propose additions or edits, then if community members are interested they can help with reviews, but I think the foundation should probably "own" the repo20:54
dhellmannfungi : or what you said, if that's simpler20:54
dhellmannusing git at least makes the crowdsourcing a little more consistent with our other things20:55
fungiso abandoning the earlier idea of relying on the driver feature matrices some services are currently maintaining?20:55
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ttxthat might be throwing the baby with the bath water20:55
jbrycefungi: i think the ideal might be a hybrid20:55
jrolldo any project teams maintain a feature matrix that includes out of tree drivers?20:55
dhellmannthose could be a starting point, but I don't think we're going to get consistent info from all teams if we don't centralize this20:55
mugsiedesignate did20:55
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jrollI think it's fairly clear that in-tree drivers are supported, and they're easy to find20:56
ttxI still think there is value in having a list of tested or 3rd-party-tested drivers20:56
mugsiethe driver got deleted though20:56
jrollmugsie: did or does?20:56
ttxfor projects happy with maintaining that20:56
mugsiebut our matrix supports external locations20:56
jbrycea “crowdsourced” list that is the superset of “is available” and then do some merging with the project maintained data to add in the concepts of supported/tested/in tree/last tested20:56
ttxjbryce: and "open source" :)20:56
dhellmannttx: right, that's why I thought a git repo where project teams who want to help expose that info could do so with normal commits or even bots20:56
dhellmannthis is just a collection of yaml files, right?20:57
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ttxit's always just a collection of yaml files20:57
fungiwell, right now there's the driverlog repo where that was ostensibly being maintained by any teams who wanted to propose changes20:57
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dhellmannfungi : and I guess from your phrasing that participation levels were low20:57
fungiconcern was raised that centralized maintenance like that wasn't as valuable as lists maintained by each team20:57
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mugsiewe have https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/designate/tree/doc/source/support-matrix.ini20:58
dhellmannwhich says to me that if we split this out into other repos, it will be equally out of date, but if we say "dear foundation staff, please maintain this list" then there is someone assigned to do it20:58
fungithat having the service teams unable to maintain those lists on their was leading to them not being kept up20:58
dhellmannmugsie : I think designate was exemplary on this front :-)20:58
fungihowever, that breaks for projects like neutron who may want to have noting to do with even tracking their drivers20:58
dhellmannfungi : right, that's the case I'm worried about20:58
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ttxam wondering if there is opposition to it, or just nobody wanting to do it20:59
ttxbecause the latter can be fixed with a volunteer20:59
jrollit does seem like a large task for neutron to track so many out of tree plugins20:59
dhellmannwe have a disappointing number of contributors who do not care about things not happening in their tree, and the point of this discoverability work was to address things happening outside of projects20:59
fungibased on the earlier discussions we seemed to have some projects who wanted to track and maintain lists of their drivers for the benefit of the driver marketplace, but i guess others who have no interest in doing so20:59
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dhellmannso we need to balance giving folks the choice to contribute vs. not having good data because they choose not to21:00
johnthetubaguyits probably lack of resources, and the lack of objective criteria, and wanting to avoid a massive argument?21:00
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dhellmannjohnthetubaguy : I'm sure all of those play a part21:00
ttxI would rather have people spend time inside Neutron team to keep that up to date, than a specific person on Foundation staff to do it as a completely separate website21:00
fungiso i'm guessing we need to come up with a model that allows some teams to participate in tracking drivers and others to let someone else do it21:00
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EmilienM(out of time)21:01
dhellmannttx: should we wait until there's a volunteer from within neutron, then? because if we block on that...21:01
ttxfungi: "let someone else do it" could be just find a volunteer who is wiling to do it21:01
fungiwith the knowledge that it probably won't be as accurate if uninvolved parties are tasked with maintaining that information21:01
ttxargh yes, endmeeting21:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jan 24 21:01:27 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-01-24-20.00.html21:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-01-24-20.00.txt21:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-01-24-20.00.log.html21:01
dhellmannfungi : and it sounds like the data model needs to say how actively maintained the list is21:01
EmilienMlet's continue on #openstack-dev21:01
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oneswigOK, lets get going...21:02
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oneswig#startmeeting scientific_wg21:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Jan 24 21:02:08 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is oneswig. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)"21:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'scientific_wg'21:02
oneswig#link agenda for today is https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Scientific_working_group#IRC_Meeting_January_24th_201721:02
armstrongit seem I am on the wrong channel? scientifig-wg?21:02
oneswigHi armstrong - you're in the right place for the Scientific WG21:03
oneswigJust starting the meeting now21:03
armstrongok thanks21:03
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oneswigMartial are you here?21:03
oneswigHi hogepodge21:03
oneswigHi priteau21:03
martialHi David, Stig21:03
trandlesHi everyone21:03
martialoneswig: fine thanks21:03
oneswig#chair martial21:04
openstackCurrent chairs: martial oneswig21:04
* cdent lurks21:04
oneswigHi dfflanders21:04
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oneswigIn fact, hi all, lets get this show on the road21:04
oneswig#topic Reproducible Science Frameworks21:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Reproducible Science Frameworks (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)"21:04
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oneswigSo there was a little discussion earlier this week on the idea of reproducibility21:05
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oneswigThought it might be interesting to hear the group's thoughts on how this is achieved21:05
oneswigmartial: want to provide some context on work at NIST?21:05
martialoneswig: sure21:05
priteauoneswig: link to the discussion if it was online?21:05
martialthere is a PhD student that is working on a model to create reproducable experiement results21:06
oneswigpriteau: alas it was in the semi regular "what shall we put into the agenda" mail...21:06
martialand he presented his tool to me last week21:06
priteaumartial: this page doesn't load for me21:07
martialthe idea is that you have an API to allow you to create records of runs21:07
oneswigmartial: I'm having trouble with it too - https issues21:07
martial(try without the s ?)21:07
armstrongthe page is broken21:07
priteauSSL error21:07
priteauhttp redirects to https21:07
martialgreat it worked yesterday :)21:07
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martialI will have to talk to the student on this one21:08
priteautext-only google cache copy: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:RRp1-4OeX04J:https://mgi.nist.gov/cloud-reproducible-records&num=1&hl=en&gl=uk&strip=1&vwsrc=021:08
armstrongis reproducibility here same as replication?21:08
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oneswigThe Demo Effect is strong with this one...21:08
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martialarmstrong: not entirely21:08
oneswigarmstrong: I think the idea is that results can be regenerated by others (or indeed by the same person twice)21:09
oneswigTo get independent corroboration of research21:09
martialoneswig: exactly21:09
martial(sorry was getting int touch with student)21:09
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oneswig... and the opportunity here is that cloud techniques enable us to do this in more effective ways21:10
armstrongi got you21:10
martialoneswig: yes I am trying to see about setting up a collaboration with the student to test on our stack21:10
martialamong this discussion we talked about a few tools of interest for such tasks21:10
martialand part of this effort was mentioning a few of those21:11
oneswigmartial: I circulated the links among the group in Cambridge and apparently there is a data-centric approach evolving there: https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/research/dtg/fresco/21:11
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priteaumartial: We have got a similar requirement for Chameleon. It's great to see that you're working on it!21:11
martialpriteau: yes I remember21:11
oneswigpriteau: did you have a specific approach in mind?21:11
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martialso a couple links of tools for people who share this interest: https://pythonhosted.org/Sumatra/ https://github.com/ViDA-NYU/reprozip21:12
priteauoneswig: I was thinking about something more integrated with OpenStack: describe your experiment as a kind of workflow with Heat stacks, which would include some helpers to persist results somewhere (e.g. Swift)21:12
priteaumartial's approach has the advantage of being portable across clouds21:13
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martialas well as CDE http://www.pgbovine.net/cde.html and Singularity  http://singularity.lbl.gov/about21:13
priteaumartial: thanks for the links21:13
oneswigMight tie in well with jmlowe and rbudden's work on using Murano to manage application images without storing away entire qcows21:14
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jmloweooh, I like that21:14
trandlesthrowing charliecloud in the mix too21:14
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martialIf there is some interest, I will try to get the student to join a meeting21:14
oneswigAha, as if by magic :-) Hi jmlowe21:14
jmlowedon't mind the smell of brimstone21:15
martialhe can explain his work far better than I can :)21:15
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oneswigmartial: would be good to follow up I think, it's a relevant issue21:15
martialbut let us just say we have an interest in the subject and wanted to judge interest21:15
martialoneswig: okay putting it out there (because tons of topic for today) and we can follow up21:16
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oneswigmartial: can you aggregate the links (eg for holding on the wiki for data?)21:16
jmlowemore or less you can think of murano as a service wraps up heat templates and presents them in point and click launch catalog in horizon21:16
martialoneswig: yes21:16
oneswigThanks martial :-)21:16
oneswigjmlowe: I may be on your case for Murano experience in the coming weeks, we are starting in that direction and would love to benefit from your experience21:17
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oneswigOK, move on?21:18
oneswig#topic Scientific OpenStack at SC 201721:18
*** openstack changes topic to "Scientific OpenStack at SC 2017 (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)"21:18
jmlowereproducing experiments is not getting the same results on the exact same lab equipment but rather following the same steps to construct similar lab equipment and getting similar results21:18
oneswigThe SC2016 show seemed to go well with plenty of interest21:18
oneswigHow to build on that and take it to the next level?21:19
oneswigdfflanders and hogepodge I think have an idea21:19
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oneswigWhich was to do a hands on workshop21:19
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hogepodgeoneswig: what would be the content?21:20
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oneswigAh, well here's a worthy discussion21:20
jmlowerbudden was getting crazy right before barcelona with a one click openstack deployment inside a vm, maybe I can get a piece of jetstream and everybody can stand up their own openstack?21:20
oneswigOne idea could be to do something like a clinic for optimisation / integration of HPC21:21
martialoneswig +121:21
oneswigjmlowe: also sounds good to me for a structured introductory session21:21
jmloweyeah, that's more of a tutorial idea21:22
hogepodgeso, we would be focusing on infrastructure over applications?21:22
oneswighogepodge: for such a session, where could we get infrastructure?21:22
trandlesoneswig: I think optimization/integration would be generate a lot of interest, especially when anything "cloud" as not being very performant21:22
hogepodgeIt seems like there could be two proposals, one for operators one for users21:22
oneswighogepodge: that might only be first prejudice but most of us here are that way inclined...21:22
hogepodgeoneswig: one of the partner universities, or possibly OSIC21:22
hogepodgeOSIC is sometimes available as a tenant cloud for short term projects. We can work out other options too21:23
dfflanderslots of public clouds would be willing to provide free credits21:23
dfflandersfor training21:23
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oneswigOSIC has the advantage of regularly exposing the underbelly of infrastructure to the great unwashed21:24
oneswigI'd be very unpopular doing that on the systems at work :-)21:24
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oneswigdfflanders: that would work for cloud applications.  I think the discussion's diverging onto infrastructure and application paths21:25
martialdfflanders: if only there was a public scientific cloud for all ... :)21:25
jmlowewould chameleon be available this far out?21:25
hogepodgeOSIC probably wouldn't work for the infra part, just because the RAX and Intel teams do the provisioning for those systems21:25
martialI take it trystack is out too ?21:26
oneswigAnother possibility might be "bring your own cloud" - ie for people to bring issues for WG members to hack on21:26
dfflandersmartial, ask me again in 9 months ;-)21:26
priteaujmlowe: depends how much resources we're talking about, it may be a possibility21:26
hogepodgebringing own cloud is challenging, but one option might be to get some basic hardware like NUCS that are easily transportable and can mimic a data center21:27
oneswighogepodge: au contraire - isn't OSIC all about testing infrastructure?  Or are there two parts to it21:27
jmloweyou could fill the gaps with "I'm ____ and this is how I work on my cloud" lighting talks21:27
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hogepodgeoneswig: it has the bare metal cloud allocations and the tenant cloud. I was thinking the tenant cloud.21:27
oneswigah ok - I've only ever used the former21:27
hogepodgeoneswig: I guess it couldn't hurt to submit a request and see if it could be available for a workshop as an installation exercise21:27
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martialSC is in 9 months, we can talk to Intel in Boston too21:28
oneswighogepodge: what's the harm in asking, eh?21:28
jmlowetell them we are considering pine64's as an alternative21:29
oneswigThe reason for discussing it now is that there's a deadline for workshop submission - 7th Feb21:29
martialjmlowe: or the new asus board :)21:29
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martialoneswig: I meant for bring your own cloud21:29
jmloweI'm fairly confident we can do the booth talk thing again at our booth as long as we are talking sc17 stuff21:30
oneswigjmlowe: thanks.  BTW my son's basketball hoop has broken, where do I send it for refund :-)21:30
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jmlowegood question, sc'16 was the first booth we didn't do ourselves21:31
oneswigSo I gauge there's a good deal of interest in a workshop session (of some form)21:31
oneswigOr perhaps a day of two halves (infrastructure then cloud apps)?21:32
hogepodgeoneswig: +1 to two halves21:32
oneswighogepodge: have you done this kind of workshop before?21:33
oneswigI think there are also viable alternatives for finding infrastructure / instances for lab resource21:33
hogepodgeoneswig: I taught an intro to openstack seminar once, many years ago. I've given some demos, though, and have some materials ready for doing an installation using Ironic and Kolla21:34
oneswighogepodge: saw that at the Barcelona keynote, nice job21:34
hogepodgeI don't have the expertise for tuning that I'm sure others here have, though21:34
hogepodge(fwiw I'm also attending the board meeting right now so I may be a bit distracted)21:35
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hogepodgedfflanders: how would you feel about helping with app dev content?21:35
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oneswig(he's taking a long time to type out 'yes'...)21:36
hogepodgeMy proposal for right now is to get concrete ideas down to start formulating a proposal21:36
hogepodgeI set up an etherpad21:37
hogepodge#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/SC17WorkshopWorksheet21:37
oneswighogepodge: great, thanks21:37
jmloweI'll go ahead and volunteer some significant number of instances on jetstream for either part or both21:37
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hogepodgejmlowe: +1 :-D21:37
armstrongcan you also mention some usecases?21:37
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martialFYI: https://mgi.nist.gov/cloud-reproducible-records works again21:38
oneswigyes it does!21:38
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armstrongyes web site working now21:39
oneswigarmstrong: interesting question.  HPC cloud apps - ones that actually use cloud technologies rather than run unaware of them - any thoughts?21:39
oneswigThere's some good stuff in the bioinformatics world around portals21:39
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dfflandershogepodge, yip21:40
jmloweI met with these guys last week, they were doing some very interesting "wrap your code and run on cloud" stuff, http://genapp.rocks/21:40
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oneswigIt might be interesting to look at deployment of "application topologies" - heterogeneous pipelines effectively21:41
martialis this still SC17 ?21:41
oneswigmartial: yes - the workshop ideas (apps this time)21:42
martialshould we just keep iterating on the etherpad for interested party; we have two topics left to discuss21:43
jmlowetime is getting a little short for both the meeting and the submission, should we solicit interested parties and continue oob?21:43
oneswigmartial: jmlowe: yes to both21:43
oneswig#topic Boston planning21:43
*** openstack changes topic to "Boston planning (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)"21:43
martialreminder: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/SC17WorkshopWorksheet21:44
oneswigThe major question here was how to organise WG activities at the summit21:44
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oneswigAnd the Boston Cloud Declaration activities on policy-level intercloud federation: would that enrich the summit or over-egg it to be held in the same concourse21:45
hogepodge(from osf point of view)21:46
martialenrich but the concern was the length needed to discuss its content21:46
jmloweeither way, it certainly simplifies travel arrangements21:46
oneswig#link Background context https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Boston-Cloud-Congress21:46
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trandlesis BCC as a follow-up the next week still up for discussion?21:46
trandlesor is it scheduled for 15-16th?21:46
oneswigI agree on co-scheduling, although there's an EGI event in Europe that conflicts with the summit, which is very unfortunate21:47
oneswigdfflanders: what's the latest?21:47
martialaccording to the link: "Venue being discussed (98ppl) with MIT for 'day and half event' for May 15th and part of May 16th, 2016."21:47
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martialwait we are in 2017 are we not21:48
martialok disregard21:48
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martialno wait it says May 15/16 in the header, so it is actual I guess21:49
trandleslol exactly...I'm confused now21:49
hogepodgedfflanders: and I can take space requests to our events and management team, and see how the congress could fit into the schedule. It's definitely something that's been on our minds so it wouldn't be a shock21:49
oneswigI don't know if it has been agreed either way.  I think Flanders may be elsewhere - dfflanders?21:49
hogepodgeWe just need a solid request, so space and time requirements21:50
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oneswigOK so lets cover the direct WG activities21:51
oneswigLast time, there was a committee meeting, a BoF and an evening social21:51
oneswigThe feedback was that the committee meeting should be bigger than 30 - noted21:51
martialand in a bigger room :)21:52
oneswigThe discussion from a couple of weeks back on BoF centred on the idea of two sessions, back-to-back possibly, right?21:52
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martialoneswig: that is also my recollection21:52
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martialoneswig: there was also the issue/question of the BCC as part of the SWG meetings, but we decided it needed it own time21:53
oneswigI don't recall the room sizes for the BoF but it was pretty big - 100 attendees approx?21:53
oneswigmartial: agreed, I think it's a discussion at a higher level21:54
martialthe BoF was well attended and we had (in Barcelona) one of the bigger tutorial room, which did help21:55
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oneswigOK, we should put in for a double session of space for the BoF.  What else, anyone?21:55
oneswigFinal item was a social.  Any Bostonians in the room?21:56
martialI have an item that might be of interest for the BCC, but I will email people directly for now to discuss interest21:56
oneswigLast summit, 57 people bought tickets - something about that size.  Any thoughts?21:56
jmloweseems like we should go to an oyster bar, but my nightmare is having food poisoning on a plane21:57
oneswigI haven't been there for 15 years, my local knowledge may be too dated...21:57
oneswigUnion Oyster House was the choice downtown - it's a bit of a warren inside though.21:58
oneswigMore of a lobster place nowadays anyway :-)21:58
martialoneswig: might have to have options too for people who do not eat oysters :)21:58
oneswigOK, we might need to widen it to anyone who knows a Bostonian...21:59
trandlesI know two but I'm not sure I trust their judgement21:59
oneswigmartial: agreed.  Wasn't equal with the Barcelona choice!21:59
oneswigWe'll need to defer this discussion, alas.  the thief of time strikes again22:00
fungithere are some awesome italian-american restaurants in the "little italy" area of town22:00
oneswigfungi: thanks, now you're making me hungry!22:00
martialdarn, time flies22:00
oneswigOK, got to clear the channel22:00
oneswigThank you everyone - and welcome to the WG armstrong22:00
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martialthanks all22:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"22:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jan 24 22:01:05 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)22:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2017/scientific_wg.2017-01-24-21.02.html22:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2017/scientific_wg.2017-01-24-21.02.txt22:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2017/scientific_wg.2017-01-24-21.02.log.html22:01
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priteaubye everyone22:01
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dfflandershogepodge, oneswig I've been working with Khalil and Wilfred re dates for event, will circulate via email22:36
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