Wednesday, 2017-02-01

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oneswig#startmeeting scientific_wg09:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Feb  1 09:00:51 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is oneswig. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.09:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)"09:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'scientific_wg'09:00
oneswig#link agenda for today
oneswigMorning priteau!09:02
oneswigQuiet one today ...09:02
priteauSmall crowd today?09:02
oneswigHow are you Pierre, your deadline's coming up?09:02
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oneswig#chair b1airo09:03
openstackCurrent chairs: b1airo oneswig09:03
oneswigg'day Blair, you made it :-)09:03
priteauoneswig: yeah we're in full swing09:03
oneswigWe were just getting going but it's just me and priteau thus far09:03
b1airoyes sorry for the being AWOL09:04
oneswigpriteau: new phase for chameleon?09:04
oneswigHi zioproto!09:04
b1airohi priteau zioproto !09:04
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oneswigb1airo priteau zioproto: I was wondering, what metrics do you use to gauge success on a cloud infrastructure project?09:05
zioprotooneswig, not bankrupting is a good start :)09:05
priteauoneswig: review of the current phase first09:05
zioprotooneswig, no kidding, is very different if you have paying customers or not09:06
oneswigtwo good points.  Sounds like the old "three envelopes" story :-)09:06
oneswigIsn't SWITCH public funded?09:06
zioprotoif you have paying customers it is easy to measure the success.  But usually in research the people dont pay for cloud resources provided by an institution. Or at least they dont pay like they would pay amazon. So it is more difficult to measure09:07
priteauoneswig: for a non commercial cloud, I would say utilization rate (quantity) and user success stories (quality)09:07
b1airohmm i suppose for private/hybrid cloud you'd have to define what success looks like before embarking... seems there are a lot of stories of management having the expectation that simply using cloud infrastructure will automatically make them more agile, but reality is somewhat different09:07
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StefanPaetowJiscGood morning all09:08
zioprotooneswig, I wish it was ! :) We dont run the cloud on public money. We have a tarif on our website.09:08
oneswigHi StefanPaetowJisc09:08
b1airoHi Stefan09:08
oneswigOK, thanks for that, think it answers my question!09:08
oneswigLets look at the agenda...09:08
StefanPaetowJiscSorry I'm late!09:09
oneswigBefore we get going, anyone going to the PTG in Atlanta in a few weeks?09:09
oneswigI am not but one of our team is09:09
zioprotoI cant go to US anymore :)09:09
StefanPaetowJiscNot me I'm afraid... the US is now out of bounds for me09:09
oneswigzioproto: legally - or morally?09:10
priteauNot me either09:10
zioprotooneswig, Iranian wife09:10
verdurinMorning - I'm not supposed to be here, but keeping an eye open09:10
StefanPaetowJiscCrazy, isn't it?09:10
oneswigAh.  I am outraged on your behalf...09:10
oneswigHi verdurin, we'll keep it quiet :-)09:10
zioprotoI have at least 1 trip to Iran every year since 2011, I dont want to be sent back after 6 hours flight just because I have been visiting my mother in law09:11
zioprotoso, for me no PTG and no Boston09:11
StefanPaetowJiscYeah, given current circumstances you wouldn't even get to board09:11
oneswigzioproto: I don't think it would be a good experience if that happened09:11
oneswigOK, how about Italy everyone?09:12
oneswig#topic Milan Ops meetup09:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Milan Ops meetup (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)"09:12
zioprotoI am going ! :)09:12
oneswigAny takers?  I booked a ticket this week09:12
StefanPaetowJiscI'll have a word with my boss to check if it's ok to go09:12
StefanPaetowJiscHe's in the office today09:13
oneswigStefanPaetowJisc: It's even closer than Rome, you have a clear precedent :-)09:13
zioprotoI am looking for other operators in Milano that are working on Kolla09:13
oneswigzioproto: you're working on Kolla?  We are working on Kolla :-)09:13
StefanPaetowJiscHaha. And it's Milano.09:13
zioprotoI have done a lot of work because we want to migrate our control plane to Kolla, but is hard to get documentation or talk to people with experience09:13
zioprotooneswig, good to know ! on ubuntu ??09:14
oneswigUbuntu?  No, sorry.  Not this time.09:14
verdurinzioproto: Kolla or Stackanetes? Or Kolla-Kubernetes?09:14
zioprotonow I am trying Kolla-ansible09:14
zioprotoon stable/newton09:14
zioprotoI am installing the operator seed node using snapcraft.io09:14
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oneswigverdurin: for us it's Kolla without Kubernetes, don't need that level of dynamism for launching the control plane, it's not that big for this system09:15
zioprotobecause Kolla is not packaged for ubuntu09:15
zioprotoit would be nice to gather in Milano with other people that use Kolla09:15
verdurinIf I get to go, very happy to contribute09:16
oneswigOK so we are deploying an Ironic system and developing Kolla containers for Monasca.  Should be well underway by the Milan meetup (and I should know a little more about it by then)09:16
zioprotooneswig, are you using centos ?09:16
zioprotoI think the most important thing to discuss is how you migrate from a existing cloud based on something else, to Kolla09:16
oneswigOne of our team - the guy going to the PTG - is well experienced in it and knows the way...09:16
oneswigzioproto: CentOS, possible RHEL09:17
zioprotooneswig, who is legendary person09:17
zioprotooneswig, is this person coming to Milano as well ??09:17
b1airozioproto, i agree - very much like the look of kolla... but how to get there when we have existing control plane and puppet configs??09:17
oneswigMark Goddard - was in my team at Cray09:17
StefanPaetowJiscWhy does that name ring a bell?09:18
zioprotob1airo, lets say I have more or less a plan, but I need to discuss it face to face with others to understand if it is doable09:18
oneswigzioproto: it's an interesting possibility... I'll ask him09:18
b1airoexcellent, i will watch this space and hope to benefit!09:18
verdurinzioproto: you're basically after something like the ceph-ansible playbook that does exactly this for Ceph09:18
zioprotob1airo, my idea is to describe also the existing puppet infrastructure in the kolla inventoruy, and then run kolla-ansible with --tags and --limits09:18
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oneswigzioproto: Is there already a session on Kolla planned?09:20
b1airoso kolla to deploy and containerise but optionally using puppet inside the containers or something along those lines...?09:20
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zioprotob1airo, no, no puppet in the containers09:21
zioprotohave you seen the Dockerfile.j2 shipped with Kolla ?09:22
zioprotothere is one for each container09:22
zioprotoif you read one of them, start with the horizon09:22
zioprotoyou immediately figure out that you can throw away your puppet modules09:22
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b1airoi like the sound of that09:22
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zioprotoWait I search a link for you09:23
oneswigzioproto: in-place migration to Kolla... I might look at spending some time crafting the equivalent Ansible config to your existing Puppet, Is that your paln?09:23
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oneswigMorning mgoddard, thanks for joining :-)09:23
b1airoyes, already open ;-)09:23
zioprotooneswig, it is a bit more because this will also create and run containers for you09:24
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zioprotooneswig, but yes, that is more or less the plan09:24
oneswigzioproto: sure, got it.09:24
mgoddardmorning all09:25
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oneswigmgoddard: we were just talking about how one might migrate to Kolla in-place from something non-containerised09:25
StefanPaetowJiscGood morning mgoddard09:25
zioproto#agreed a lot of interest in Kolla during the OPS Milano event09:25
mgoddardwe were building up a repeatable migration from systemd to Kolla at Cray09:26
mgoddardit was a PITA :)09:26
mgoddardbut is possible09:26
zioprotoPITA ?09:26
zioprotoI got it09:26
zioprotosorry :)09:26
oneswigGood to see there is lots of interest out there zioproto, as you say09:27
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mgoddardit will depend on your requirements - some downtime will be necessary09:27
zioprotofor example we would like to keep Ceph out of Kolla, but it is not clear if it is easy to maitain such a hybrid system09:27
oneswigmgoddard: Did you plan an upgrade in a single move or could it be done service by service?09:27
zioprotoalso, is kolla-ansible going to be maintaned ? or kolla-kubernetes will win ?09:28
mgoddardzioproto: the focus is one kolla-kubernetes currently but I think that's mostly because it's shiny09:28
mgoddardI certainly hope they continue to support kolla-ansible, kubernetes is one turtle too many for most deployments IMHO09:29
zioprotounfortunately I have a physical meeting at 10:30 ... I will keep an eye on the chat if you tag me for specific questions, otherwise I will read the logs later ! sorry !09:29
oneswigSee you later zioproto09:29
StefanPaetowJiscBye zioproto09:29
mgoddardshould be possible to upgrade service by service, with care (use enable_* feature flags and ansible tags where they fail)09:30
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oneswigmgoddard: might enable you to gain confidence in the method, changing one thing at a time09:30
oneswig... or might protract the pain endlessly...09:30
oneswigOK - move on?09:31
mgoddardprobably both09:31
oneswig#topic Boston summit09:31
*** openstack changes topic to "Boston summit (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)"09:31
oneswigRound we go again, only ever so slightly faster09:32
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oneswigAnyone with plans to speak, your deadline for submission is next Monday09:32
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b1airooneswig, i notice the agenda said "WG room bookings submitted"09:32
oneswigAh, a slight error of tense / possibly optimistic on my part09:33
b1airoah dang, i was so hopeful09:33
oneswigI had the plan to book the meeting plus double-bill BoF last night, but had to put up some curtains instead09:33
b1airosounds like a similar evening all round09:33
oneswigWe could, given it's been discussed, assume they are filed09:33
oneswigand I'll do it after the meeting :-)09:34
StefanPaetowJiscOk, got your email by the way, oneswig09:34
oneswigStefanPaetowJisc: great09:34
b1airosounds great - was that the consensus we ended up with in terms of WG sessions?09:35
oneswigb1airo: I think so.  How the two sessions are filled I recall discussion but forget details09:35
oneswigLightning talks and open discussion perhaps09:35
b1airook, i need to catch up on the meeting logs09:35
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b1airoyes that was certainly one of the original suggestions09:36
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oneswigOne development in progress - I have OpenStack-ised the documents from the last cycle and added empty space for gathering data from this cycle09:36
oneswig#link generated output from sphinx:
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b1aironice work oneswig !09:37
verdurinThat's an ugly verbing, oneswig09:37
priteauoneswig: Looks great!09:37
oneswigSorry, perhaps I should have verdurinned my sentence first?09:37
verdurinVery useful work, though09:38
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oneswigSo I'm hopeful we can put together a few additional topics from this cycle.  My next plan is to graft in much of the text of zioproto's use case on federation09:38
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oneswigAnd have the team take it from there.09:38
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oneswigUnless anyone thinks this is the wrong path, I'll start the process of getting it into openstack-infra09:39
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StefanPaetowJiscI'll have a look at what you sent hopefully this week or next09:40
oneswigOne idea previously discussed was to organise a working session at the Forum for hacking on it collectively09:40
oneswigTo keep the older bits up to date as well09:40
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oneswigAnother thought on Boston - anyone know the city enough to propose a venue for a social?  I used to live there but my knowledge is old09:42
StefanPaetowJiscOur dev team for Moonshot are based out there so I'll check with them this afternoon what they could suggest09:43
oneswigThanks StefanPaetowJisc, that'd be very useful09:43
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oneswigOK, any more to add on Boston this week?09:44
b1airodid we get anywhere with the cross-over sessions?09:44
oneswig#action Stig to file request for repo with OpenStack infra09:44
oneswigb1airo: Ah, good point, this must have been the second session... no I don't think so09:45
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b1airofrom the mailing lists it seems like there is a fair bit of interest in sessions on quota management and api policy09:45
oneswigThe discussion on Pike?09:45
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b1airothe latter is not particularly a scientific problem, but seems to impact our use cases fairly universally09:46
b1airoyes, the Pike thread was one09:46
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oneswigFor the summit arrangements, do you know how that session might be organised?09:47
b1airono, i took an action to figure it out 3 weeks ago and then disappeared down several day job rabbit holes09:48
oneswigI'll have a look afterwards, and if it's not obvious I'll mail Flanders - how's that for a plan09:49
b1airosounds great thanks oneswig (i have new ceph nodes to get ready for prod...)09:49
oneswigOK, thanks for the reminder b1airo - any more on Boston before we head west to Denver?09:50
oneswig#topic SC2017 workshops09:50
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oneswigThis opportunity came up - we can apply for one (or two) OpenStack hands-on workshops at SC201709:51
oneswigThere was some discussion on it last week and people were interested.09:51
oneswigLikely more of the US gang were planning on attending though - is anyone here planning to attend SC2017?09:52
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StefanPaetowJiscNo... not me09:52
priteauoneswig: I am pretty sure Kate will be there09:52
oneswigI'm probably going, but not guaranteed (especially if I'm going to Sydney)09:52
priteauI probably won't go09:53
b1airohighly like i will be there09:53
b1airoparticularly as i'll be reviewing papers!09:54
oneswigOK, so it's not fertile ground to hunt for volunteers to help with the workshop.  I think it's worth applying given the interest from the group's other wing.09:54
oneswigb1airo: I'd forgotten about that, have you started?09:55
oneswig#topic AOB09:55
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b1airoyes, i think the first order of business is brainstorming of topics and activities that could fill a workshop09:55
b1airopresumably flanders and his hackathon minions have that format down, but it's not all that clear to me whether the SC crowd would go for it - but i think it's worth proposing for sure09:56
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verdurinMaybe worth mentioning that I'll be attending a meeting with Tim Bell at Sanger in March, regarding CERN's (hyper-)activity09:56
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oneswigb1airo: Last week's discussion split on two themes - infrastructure and application workloads.  I was wondering about something like a clinic (susceptible to who turns up, and with what) or a set of worked examples09:57
b1airoas for infra centric stuff, maybe: architecting an openstack cloud for high-performance09:57
b1airoperformance tuning and monitoring09:58
oneswigverdurin: sounds good, hopefully see you there.  I understand there's an HPC pub night after-party09:58
oneswigb1airo: I think along those lines, makes sense.  The application side is more sketchy to me but Heat would kill a few hours...09:58
oneswigWe are nearly out of time - Any Other Business?09:59
b1airohowever it'd be hard not to make such a workshop opinionated about design/architecture choices, e.g., have to decide up front if we're doing Ironic or Nova KVM09:59
verdurinb1airo: before we go, thanks for you and your colleague's recent help09:59
b1airoverdurin, was that sam?10:00
oneswigShare and enjoy, verdurin b1airo - great to hear it!10:00
b1airoi don't remember doing anything! :-D10:00
StefanPaetowJiscNo AOB from me, sorry!10:00
oneswigOK all, we'd better clear off - thanks everyone10:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"10:01
openstackMeeting ended Wed Feb  1 10:01:12 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)10:01
openstackMinutes (text):
StefanPaetowJiscSee you soon10:01
b1airoGood night!10:01
StefanPaetowJiscNight Blair!10:01
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priteaubye all!10:02
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ad_rien_#startmeeting massively_distributed_clouds15:00
ad_rien_#chair ad_rien_15:00
ad_rien_#info agenda15:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Feb  1 15:00:37 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ad_rien_. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: massively_distributed_clouds)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'massively_distributed_clouds'15:00
openstackCurrent chairs: ad_rien_15:00
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serverascodehello :)15:01
ad_rien_menthos, denaitre, msimonin, ansmith, rcherrueau, hcoullon15:01
ad_rien_guys ?15:01
MenthosHey o/15:01
ad_rien_Hi serverascode15:01
ad_rien_#info agenda15:01
ad_rien_#link line 13615:02
ad_rien_OK let's way a couple of seconds, some folks from Orange might join15:02
denaitrehi o/15:02
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ad_rien_Ok, before starting may I ask you to add items in the open discussions if there are particular points you would like to discuss, thanks15:03
ad_rien_so let's start15:03
ad_rien_#topic  Announcement15:03
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ad_rien_Some new achievements regarding the ENOS framework as you may have seen on the pad, in particular a Vagrant driver that enables you to test Enos on your machine and a new official docs15:04
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ad_rien_Second point is about the proposal for Boston, we are going to submit with the University of Chicago15:05
ad_rien_#link if you want to give a look15:05
ad_rien_and that's all from the Inria side.15:05
ad_rien_Are there news from your side guys that you would like to share?15:06
ad_rien_serverascode: some news regarding the NVF Working group that can be shared here?15:06
ad_rien_ok seems not :-)15:07
serverascodesure, if you mean that we are working on a presentation for the summit on multi-site/cloud?15:07
ad_rien_yes ?15:07
serverascodeok :) Yup we are working on a joint presentation on an overview of multi site, cloud, distributed etc15:08
ad_rien_did you make progress? Unless I am mistaken, I didn't see any proposal?15:08
serverascodeI am writing the abstract today for the summit proposal15:08
serverascodeand will send it out to any intrested parties15:08
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serverascodeit'll be on an etherpad15:08
ad_rien_serverascode ok sound goods15:08
ad_rien_#action serverascode will share an etherpad regarding the NFV WG presentation that should deal with multi site cloud, distributed etc.15:09
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ad_rien_anything else?15:09
ad_rien_if not let's move to the next point15:09
serverascodenot from me right now15:09
ad_rien_#topic deployment scenarios15:09
*** openstack changes topic to "deployment scenarios (Meeting topic: massively_distributed_clouds)"15:09
ad_rien_Ok as mentioned in the pad, I think it would be valuable to spend sometimes on this point in order to move forward.15:10
dsantorowe have analysed the proposed scenarios regarding our action item15:10
ad_rien_maybe we can start from FBK institute15:10
dsantorofrom the last meeting15:10
ad_rien_please dsantoro15:10
dsantoroyes thanks ad_rien_15:11
dsantoroDescription of our use casesDuring past months we started to analyze few use cases in which our platform could fit and the relative motivation to have a distributed IaaS layer, finally we identified few:15:11
dsantoroSmart traffic light15:11
dsantoroHere is important to overcome network faults and latency having a system more resilient15:11
dsantoroApplication placements and roaming (see demo paper @ CloudCom 2016)15:11
dsantoroHere we need persistent storage on the edge to save application state and support the migration of the stateless components15:11
dsantoroVirtual reality gaming15:11
dsantoroNeed to have the video elaboration and the application state on the edge due to low latency requirements15:11
dsantoroPrivacy and data15:11
dsantoroAgain need of storage on the edge15:11
dsantoroDistributed content caching on the edge15:11
dsantoroProbably need of placement control over the distributed storage15:11
dsantoroDimensioning and optimization of the control channel15:11
dsantoroso about our preferred choice:15:11
dsantoroBased on the above use-cases we would exclude s1 and s2 for the final platform mainly because we need availability of all resources offered by a IaaS in the edge not only computational resources. Maybe what we are looking for is a yet different scenario in which we have a complete (but small) OpenStack environment installed on the edge nodes that are federated with others.15:11
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dsantorofinally, since the WG agreed to start with testing s1 we think it could be a good architecture where to start also our experiments on bare metal edge nodes we would like to setup in the near future.15:12
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ad_rien_dsantoro:  are you done?15:13
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ad_rien_so regarding the first remark, I think you right,15:13
ad_rien_HA can be an issue with S115:13
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ad_rien_but this is the simplest way to operate a massively distributed cloud15:14
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ad_rien_the idea would be to evaluate the impact of network latency, bandwidth and disconnections15:14
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ad_rien_When you said: "because we need availability of all resources offered by a IaaS in the edge not only computational resources."15:15
dsantorosure and in some use-cases HA is vital like in traffic light example15:15
ad_rien_what do you mean by not only computational resorces ?15:15
ad_rien_resources sorry sir15:15
ad_rien_i.e. we can maybe envision to run some workloads (either in VM or container sandboxing technologies)15:16
dsantoroI mean that basically we think we need for sure CPU and RAM capacity on the edge node15:16
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ad_rien_at the edge and these workloads can be temporarily disconnected from the rest of the architecture.15:16
dsantorobut for instance we are thinking on scenarios where we need to cache data (of videos) for example15:16
dsantorointhe edge nodes15:16
ad_rien_(i.e. the important aspect is that those workloads can discuss with the edge sensors, facilities)15:16
ad_rien_ok ?15:16
dsantoroso in this case we ned soem sort of distributed storage also15:17
ad_rien_basically you are tallking abou having swift15:17
ad_rien_(or a swift like solution)15:17
dsantorocould be15:17
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ad_rien_swift is already distributed so this could be feasible but this is a good remark15:17
ad_rien_try to extend this deployment scenarios analysis with the swift component15:18
ad_rien_#action Extend the scenarios deployment with object stores servies such as Swift.15:18
dsantorowe analysed also the case in which we have a stateless tier of an applicaiton15:18
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dsantororunning on the IoT GWs15:18
ad_rien_can you elaborate a bit more?15:19
dsantoroand it needs stateful/persitence on the edge node15:19
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dsantoroto support migration15:19
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ad_rien_not sure I correctly understood the point. Can you please explain?15:19
dsantoro(this is what we shown during CloudCom)15:19
ad_rien_I remind the IoT gateway use-case15:19
dsantoroimage to have a container running on the closest layer in the GW (very close to user)15:19
dsantorothat container retrieve temperature data form a user sensor15:20
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dsantoronow the user move15:20
ad_rien_so you have a container running on the Gateway, right? and what are the requirement on the edge cloud?15:20
ad_rien_go on please15:20
dsantoroto GW215:20
dsantorowhat we did15:20
dsantorowas to distroy the container on GW1 and crete it on GW215:21
dsantoroof course we need some persistent layer where to save the data collected form GW115:21
dsantorothat layer in our demo was a DB15:21
dsantoroon the edge15:21
ad_rien_so the point is that you need to ensure that data can be shared at any time and under any constraints between the different edge clouds.15:21
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dsantoroyeah that's the point15:22
ad_rien_(if obviously the two IoT gateways are attached to distinct edge clouds)15:22
dsantoromicroservices application could be distributed across GWs and EDGEs15:22
ad_rien_Ok I get the point15:22
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ad_rien_so here it is a bit tricky in the sense that you are at the level of the data plane15:23
dsantorolet me tell you another quick point15:23
ad_rien_and you want to ensure that your wokloads can communicate or at least adapt to external events such as network disconnections15:23
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ad_rien_am I right?15:23
dsantoroyes you are right15:23
dsantorolook this: in some cases we could need to store privacy information on the edge nodes15:24
dsantoroimaging a health center that do not want to share users sensible infos on the cploud15:24
ad_rien_ok I put some notes in the pad thanks, please go on15:24
dsantoroso that the reason why we think is important having storage on the edge also15:25
ad_rien_I agree15:25
ad_rien_I added that line 152.15:25
ad_rien_actually because swift is already based on a distributed model (i.e. a DHT-based blob system), we didn't put in the slides but you're right we should add it.15:26
ad_rien_#action Identify impact not only at the level of the core-services but also at the level of the data plane.15:26
ad_rien_ok anything else ?15:27
dsantoronot from my side15:27
ad_rien_ok thanks15:27
ad_rien_precious comments ;)15:27
ad_rien_so getting back to the slides. Joe(Chaoyi) added a few comments.15:27
ad_rien_It would be great if we can all do the same15:27
ad_rien_and try to criticize the different approaches15:28
ad_rien_in term of performance, HA, ….15:28
ansmithdsantoro: to clarify, is data collected from IoT gateway events/logs?15:28
ansmithor other data?15:28
dsantoroother data15:28
dsantorowe had a GW with a datareader container onboard15:29
dsantorowhich collected temperature data from an attached sensor15:29
ad_rien_dsantoro:  do you have a link toward you paper, it would be good to have it in the minutes (I think it might interest people)15:30
dsantorosorry guys15:31
ad_rien_but I didn't find the pdf :(15:32
ad_rien_(at least a preprinted version that we can share)15:32
dsantorofor sure I can share it by mail but I need to check this point of having it on a public link15:32
dsantoroI will add it on the etherpad after cheking ok ?15:32
ad_rien_guys if you are interested by additional information on the envisioned use-cases at FBK, please contact dsantoro by mail15:32
ad_rien_or give a look to the pad ;)15:33
ad_rien_Thanks dsantoro15:33
ad_rien_ok so let's move forward,15:33
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ad_rien_so I didn't find time to polish the slide but as mentioned now I think we should add comments on the different approaches and clearly mention the pros/cons of each approach15:33
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ad_rien_I will do but from my perspective/my understanding. It would be great if you guys, you can add comments like Joe did15:34
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ad_rien_do you think you can give a try for the next meeting ?15:34
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ad_rien_Follks from Orange also made a good work on that aspect BTW15:35
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* ad_rien_ is looking for another link15:36
ad_rien_I think it should be that one15:37
jfpeltieryes thanks15:38
ad_rien_ok so action for the next meeting:15:38
ad_rien_#action all: please add pros/cons comments on the deployment scenario  slides by Feb, the 1315:39
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ad_rien_#action adrien: polish the slide before the next meeting (i.e. between Feb the 13th and the 15th)15:39
ad_rien_anything else on this topic?15:39
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ad_rien_so let's switch to the next point15:40
ad_rien_#topic Boston presentations15:40
*** openstack changes topic to "Boston presentations (Meeting topic: massively_distributed_clouds)"15:40
ad_rien_so first question, who plan to attend the Boston summit next May?15:40
ad_rien_from Inria we should be two15:40
ad_rien_who else?15:41
jfpeltiernot going15:41
ansmithwill attend15:41
serverascodeI'll be there :)15:42
ad_rien_jfpeltier:  do you know whether mrohon or Abdelhdi will come?15:42
dsantoronone of us will attend probably15:42
ad_rien_dsantoro:  ok too15:42
kgiustikgiusti: planning to attend15:42
jfpeltiernot sure yet for Abdelhadi, Mrohon maybe15:43
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ad_rien_so I put remarks regarding official presentations.15:43
ad_rien_I have nothing to add15:44
ad_rien_in particular, maybe just that I'm waiting for the serverascode proposal because I'm convinced that we are addressing similar challenges and that both WGs are valuable.15:44
ad_rien_So does anyone plan to submit another presentation?15:45
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dsantorono from our side mainly because the short deadline for submission we are not able to drive a proposal on our use-cases/platform15:45
dsantorobut we are interested in contributing with few slides describing the use-cases, the platform or the requirements in the case you think is worth to mention about it on your Proposal 1.15:45
ad_rien_good to know that15:46
ad_rien_#action keep FBK folks in the loop for the presentation in order to present their use-case in the introduction15:46
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ad_rien_ok maybe a last point to discuss is15:46
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ad_rien_What you would like to discuss during the massively distributed WG session (i.e. face to face meeting)? and whether it makes sense to provide a webconference solution for the ones that cannot make the trip to Boston.15:47
ad_rien_I will open a pad so we can start to put items15:47
ad_rien_#action Adrien create a pad for the face-to-face meeting in Boston (please double check that there is no overlapping with the NFV one)15:48
ad_rien_serverascode: may I ask you how many session you plan to request for the NFV WG?15:48
serverascodeI did put in a request for two consecutive, but I would be surprised to get it15:49
serverascodeI would imagine one 40 min session15:49
ad_rien_good to know15:49
ad_rien_ok if makes sense we can merge our session so we can have two consecutive sessions15:49
ad_rien_let's see what will we get as preliminary agendas.15:50
serverascodethat's a possibllty, though we tend to get a lot of people who aren't necessarily interested :)15:50
serverascodethey just see NFV in the title15:50
ad_rien_like us ;)15:50
ad_rien_they see Fog/Edge ;)15:50
ad_rien_ok so let's move to the OpenDiscussion15:50
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ad_rien_#topic open discussions15:50
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussions (Meeting topic: massively_distributed_clouds)"15:50
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ad_rien_jfpeltier:  I do not know whether you see the comments ansmith and kgiusti put in the pad: maybe you want to say a few words or we can keep this item for the next meeting?15:51
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ad_rien_(I would  like to keep 3 minutes at least to discuss the  last point: how can we attract more people).15:52
jfpeltieryes we can keep that for next one as we don't have clear cut results yet15:52
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kgiustifyi: andy and I have thrown together some slides on different message bus deployment topologies:
ad_rien_ok #action jfpeltier (Orange) will provide information regarding the AMQP stresser)15:52
jfpeltierbasically the AMQP flooding is issued by sending many messages to the clients on one-to-one queues15:53
kgiustiwe can talk about this next meeting once folks have time to look it over.15:53
ad_rien_kgiusti:  ACL15:53
ad_rien_I put it on the pad thanks15:53
ad_rien_will definitely give a look15:53
ad_rien_BTW guys, do you think we can find a way to deploy QPID with ansible ?15:54
ad_rien_or any glue that can enable us to deploy it easily/in an automatic manner.15:54
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kgiustijfpeltier: stressing the broker itself - would be interesting to see how the other more point to point (non-brokered) technologies handle that (zeromq, dispatch router)15:54
ansmithansible is next up after we complete tripleo/puppet15:54
ad_rien_May I ask you a milestone/deadline?15:55
ad_rien_even if it is approximatie15:55
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ansmithduring pike is goal, in meantime we can discuss manual configuration if that is an option15:55
ad_rien_we can try it15:55
ad_rien_but manual means having a permanent testbed15:56
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ad_rien_we have a permanenent testbed but with more than 1000 users15:56
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ad_rien_so we get leases/reservations15:56
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ad_rien_it is preferable to have an automation mode.15:56
ad_rien_Ok we can discuss that point later15:56
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ad_rien_last question:15:56
ansmithunderstood, will provide update15:56
ad_rien_did you get feedbacks from RED Hat Fog/Edge guys?15:57
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ad_rien_It would be great to have them in our discussions: ansmith?15:57
ad_rien_any news on that point.15:57
ansmithwe reached out to a number of folks who are interested in the wg15:57
ansmithI will invite them to next session15:57
ad_rien_ok sounds good15:57
ad_rien_especially that now we have FBK that is strongly supporting Fog/Edge use-cases15:58
ad_rien_#info Fog/edge folks from redhat should join us next time15:58
ad_rien_Ok nothing more from my side15:58
ad_rien_Thanks for attending the meeting15:58
ad_rien_we have one more minute if someone wants to add something?15:58
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ad_rien_nothing ?15:58
serverascodenothing from me15:58
ad_rien_Ok thanks.15:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"15:59
openstackMeeting ended Wed Feb  1 15:59:10 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:59
openstackMinutes (text):
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smcginnis#startmeeting Cinder16:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Feb  1 16:00:10 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is smcginnis. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Cinder)"16:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'cinder'16:00
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smcginnisping dulek duncant eharney geguileo winston-d e0ne jungleboyj jgriffith thingee smcginnis hemna xyang1 tbarron scottda erlon rhedlind jbernard _alastor_ bluex karthikp_ patrickeast dongwenjuan JaniceLee cFouts Thelo vivekd adrianofr mtanino yuriy_n17 karlamrhein diablo_rojo jay.xu jgregor baumann rajinir wilson-l reduxio wanghao thrawn01 chris_morrell stevemar watanabe.isao,tommylikehu16:00
smcginnismdovgal ildikov wxy viks ketonne16:00
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smcginnis#topic Announcements16:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: Cinder)"16:01
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smcginnisRC-1 is tomorrow. We should try to wrap up any important bugs today if at all possible.16:02
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smcginnisAfter RC-1 we will really need to limit what, if anything, we allow in.16:02
smcginnisCritical only, ideally.16:02
smcginnisI need to start reworking the focus etherpad to start prepping for Pike, so I won't link that here for now.16:03
duleksmcginnis: master opens for Pike once RC-1 is tagged, right?16:03
smcginnisdulek: Correct. I need to branch stable/ocata when we tag RC-1. So once that is done, that means master will now be Pike.16:03
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smcginnisSo just hold off on anything until you see that stable/ocata is actually created. ;)16:04
smcginnis#link PTG info and registration16:04
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smcginnisI think it was mentioned there are only 18 spots left for the PTG as of this morning.16:05
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smcginnisIf you've been waiting on that, better get moving.16:05
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smcginnis#link PTG topic planning16:05
* dulek finally got his flight tickets for PTG. Wheee! :)16:05
smcginnisAdd any ideas to scottda's list of topics. ^^16:06
smcginnisdulek: Awesome!16:06
smcginnisI'll try to start arranging proposed topics into a logical-ish order soon so we can have a list to work through at the PTG.16:06
smcginnis#link Summit CFP16:07
smcginnisLess than a week left to submit talk proposals for the Summit.16:07
smcginnisI guess one final announcement item - PTL nomination period closed and I was the only one. So y'all stuck with me again. :)16:09
scottdaCongratulations, Great Leader!16:09
smcginnisHah, thanks.16:09
smcginnis#topic Consistent Versioned Endpoints in the Service Catalog16:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Consistent Versioned Endpoints in the Service Catalog (Meeting topic: Cinder)"16:09
smcginnisscottda: OK, all yours.16:09
scottdaSo, we'll be talking about this Mon or tues at the PTG16:10
scottdaOps have complained about the service catalog being inconsistent...16:10
scottdaand cinder is a good example.16:10
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scottdaI.e. that we have 'volume', 'volumev2', 'volumev3'16:10
jungleboyjsmcginnis, Thanks for continuing to be our fearless leader!16:10
scottdaI'm not sure anything can be done to change things. That might break a lot of code and scripts.16:11
scottdaBut we'll be talking about it. So either attend, or let me know opinions so I can represent them.16:11
smcginnisscottda: Would be great if we could just have 'volume' and figure out from there where to go.16:11
scottdasmcginnis: +1000016:12
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ildikovsmcginnis: +116:12
scottdaYes, volume could be the naked endpoint:16:12
scottdaand you get version info from there.16:12
e0nedo we have working version discovery in cinderclient?16:12
scottdaAnd I think that ops and API WG folks like that idea.16:12
erlonsmcginnis: +116:12
scottdae0ne: yes16:12
e0nescottda: cool16:13
scottdaboth CLI and a static method that takes a URL and no auth16:13
scottdaBut, I'm sure there will be debate about how to change things, deprecation, etc.16:13
scottdaPlease attend, or voice strong opinions somehow.16:13
scottdaOtherwise, they'll get my opinion.16:14
scottdaThat's it for this topic.16:14
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smcginnisscottda: OK, thanks!16:14
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smcginnisI think if we can work through migration issues, it would get us in a better place.16:15
bswartzscottda: I'll be there and full of opinions16:15
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scottdabswartz: Good to hear. Maybe after the meeting we can chat.16:15
smcginnisI'd love to revisit removing of v1 at some point too. But that's another big discussion for another time.16:15
smcginnis#topic Storing cinder version info and client caching in nova16:16
*** openstack changes topic to "Storing cinder version info and client caching in nova (Meeting topic: Cinder)"16:16
scottdasmcginnis: Yes, but we'll likley touch on that..16:16
scottdaOK, next topic...16:16
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scottdaI've a POC for how Nova can get cinder server (and client) info , and use for new APIs for attach/detach16:16
scottdaOne question is: Do we store that info, or get it dynamically for each call to the cinderclient?16:17
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scottdaAnother question is: Do we really need to instantiate a client for each call from nova -> cinder?16:17
scottdaWe currently do this 4 times for a volume attach.16:17
hemnascottda, where would the client even store it ?16:17
smcginnisscottda: Seems inefficient.16:17
scottdahemna: See my patch. It's clunky, but uses a Global16:18
scottdastored in nova/, not on the client16:18
hemnabetween invocations?16:18
scottdanova gets the version info, and puts it into a global16:18
hemnaoh.  ew ok.16:18
scottdaONce that is set, Nova can use that in code16:18
jungleboyjscottda, Wow, 4 times seems excessive.16:18
smcginnisIssue there would be what if the service gets upgraded. So Nova would have to get restarted to recognize Cinder changed.16:18
scottdaOther choice is to query the cinder server for each nova call that goes through cinderclient to cinder...16:18
bswartzinstantiating a object should be trivially cheap though -- what is the expensive part?16:19
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scottdasmcginnis: Yes, that's the issue. But how big of an issue is it?16:19
scottdabswartz: Expensive would be pinging cinder server each call to get version info16:19
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bswartzwhy would we do that?16:19
bswartzjust send the API request with the highest version you know...16:19
dulekIf the Cinder microversion was reported in the service catalog, it would be better - we're calling Keystone anyway.16:20
scottdabecause we've new APIs for nova to use with cinder for volume attach...16:20
bswartzthis is the whole point I was trying to make about version APIs16:20
scottdaBut nova code won't know at run time which version of cinder exists.16:20
bswartzyou never query the server for versions until after something has failed16:20
bswartzyou send the request, expect success, and deal with failure by negotiating down16:20
scottdabswartz: maybe16:21
scottdanot sure Nova wants to do it that way16:21
bswartzas an optimization, you cache the server version after negotiating down to avoid repeat failures16:21
dulekMaybe it should be in nova.conf? It's admin who knows what Cinder version is in the deployment.16:21
e0nebswartz: +1 on such solution16:21
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bswartzbut caching the version is dangerous because the server could upgrade without telling you16:21
smcginnisKind of more "pythonic" to try and fail, then failback to the old way I guess.16:21
scottdabswartz: if you're going to cache the server version, why not just get it upon first query and use it?16:22
bswartzscottda: because it's slow as hell16:22
scottdaI'm not personally married to any particular solution...16:22
bswartzand the negotiate down case should be rare16:22
scottdabswartz: Not sure it's any more round trips that the try- fail-try again16:22
bswartzyou always want the common case to be fast and the rare case to be slow16:22
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bswartzit's same in the fail case but more round trips in the happy case16:23
scottdabswartz: Yeah, it's maybe the best. Part of this conversation is to have another conversation about the same subject with Nova16:23
bswartzand in this specific case you're worried about it happening 4 times, which is easily avoidable16:23
e0neFYI,  cinder's patch "Make Nova API version configurable"
scottdaSince they will ultimately decide what goes in their code.16:23
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scottdaOK, well, I'm wanting to solicit ideas.. We'll likely discuss at the next nova-cinder api meeting...16:24
bswartzI'm worried that microversions are getting a bad name because people are deciding use to them wrong16:25
scottdatomorrow, Thurs, at 1700 UTC16:25
scottdabswartz: Well, I think they have a bad name. And it's a matter of education and information.16:25
scottdaIf you just try..except for everything, why do you need microversions?16:25
bswartzI can only educate and inform so much16:25
scottdajust see if the feature exists, and then fall back to the older way.16:26
smcginnisI think in this case though, it's not limited to just one call and failing back. It kind of dictates the whole workflow being done.16:26
scottdasmcginnis: That's right. There will be a lot of code in Nova for just attach and detach...16:26
smcginnisSo there probably should be some caching or something to know for the whole "transaction".16:26
scottdaAnd we might be adding more in the future for special cases like migration, shelve offload, etc.16:26
scottdaOK, well, I want to solicit opinions, and welcome people to join in.16:27
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scottdaildikov: Did I get the meeting time right for nova-cinder api talk?16:27
smcginnisildikov: Thursday's, same time, right?16:28
bswartzwhat channel is that meeting16:28
ildikovscottda: smcginnis: yes, Thursdays, 1700UTC, #openstack-meeting-cp16:28
smcginnisildikov: Thanks!16:28
scottdacool. That's it for me.16:28
smcginnisscottda: Thanks again.16:29
ildikovscottda: smcginnis: it's also registered now on eavesdrop, so it's official :)16:29
scottdaI'll shut up now16:29
smcginnisildikov: Ooh, nice.16:29
smcginnisscottda: Hah16:29
smcginnis#topic Open Discussion16:29
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Cinder)"16:29
smcginnisTHat was it on the agenda. Anything else today?16:29
jungleboyjildikov, Nice. Now the issues will get resolved then, right?  ;-)16:29
ildikovscottda: smcginnis: :)16:29
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ildikovjungleboyj: what issues? ;)16:29
smcginnisOr we can get 30 minutes to finalize bug fixes before the RC. :)16:29
hemnasmcginnis, I wanted to raise the question of marking drivers unsupported.16:30
jungleboyjildikov, Indeed.  ;-)16:30
smcginnishemna: Oh, good topic I guess. Especially given the timing.16:30
hemnaI'm re-running the latest report right now16:30
jungleboyjAnd here goes the next 30 minutes.16:30
hemnaI've spent some time reworking the tool to output some more information that gives us a better idea of the jobs for each CI16:31
smcginnisLast one hemna ran until he gets current results:
hemnathat one just finished16:31
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hemnait details every job in the CI and if the success rate is <=60% it shows the last success run for the job as well16:32
hemnado we care at this point to mark failing drivers as unsupported?16:32
hemnasome are low%16:32
smcginnishemna: I think with timing I would rather mark them unsupported as soon as Pike opens up.16:32
hemnasome are 0%16:33
smcginnisThough it can be argued we are going out with drivers supported that do not meet CI requirements at this point. :{16:33
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hemnayah, that's why I wanted to raise that now16:33
hemnaclearly some CI's are not working16:33
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xyang2hemna: whatever we decide, I think we should send out an email to the mailing list, describe what exactly is the criteria for marking a driver unsupported16:34
smcginnisI'm not as concerned about passing percentage (at least at this point) as the ones that haven't even reported for weeks.16:34
hemnaxyang2 we've done that every time we've met16:34
xyang2hemna: give driver maintainers the tools you used so they can run themselves16:35
smcginnisxyang2: We have and we've published it on our wiki. I think we said two weeks?16:35
hemnaI'm kinda of the mindset that we have been the nice guy for a while now to get people used to keeping the CI up16:35
xyang2smcginnis: right , two weeks16:35
jungleboyjsmcginnis, I think we should talk about what the acceptable percentage is at the PTG and clearly state that before doing anything right now.16:35
hemnawe either care about the CI failing and use the unsupported flag or...not16:35
xyang2smcginnis, hemna: I don't remember we published something based on percentage16:35
smcginnisjungleboyj: Yes, before we base anything on percentage we should discuss and publish it.16:36
hemnawe said 50% passing in a 2 week period at the last mid cycle16:36
jungleboyjObviously if it isn't running that means it is unsupported.16:36
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jungleboyjhemna, Did we announce that?16:36
xyang2hemna: put that on wiki then16:36
hemnayup, I'm sure smcginnis did16:36
xyang2hemna: it was not there when I checked last time16:36
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hemnaanyway, we have many CI's far less than 50% now16:37
xyang2hemna, smcginnis: I don't remember we agreed on a exact percentage before16:37
scottdaSeems we need to talk about a way to capture agreements from meetups...that's a topic for the PTG.16:37
smcginnisNot percentage. Just time based.16:38
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hemnaok it's not published, but I do remember smcginnis saying 50% in 2 weeks at the mid cycle16:38
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wiggin15Goodhart's law: "When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure."16:38
hemnawe have some that are 4%, 14%16:39
smcginnisWe do have the line "Other issues are found but failed to be addressed in a timely manner"16:39
hemnaI don't consider those as working16:39
smcginnisI think 4% passing is an "other issue".16:39
smcginnisThe problem now, is if we mark them unsupported today, that gives zero time for issues to be addressed.16:39
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smcginnisI don't really want to cause issues. I just want a strong incentive to keep CI running.16:40
hemnathat's what I thought the unsupported flag was16:40
hemnainstead of removing them from tree16:40
e0nehemna: +116:40
hemnahere is a good example16:40
xyang2too late for Ocata, already passed O-3, given that we didn't publish the percentage16:40
hemna11% success rate16:40
hemnalast success was 42 days ago16:41
smcginnisYeah, but it does have a negative impact on end users.16:41
hemnaand yet we are worried about upsetting them?16:41
hemnaI don't get it16:41
smcginnisMore concerned about the folks stuck using their gear.16:41
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smcginnisLet's talk about this at the PTG. I think we need to definitely decide on a passing percentage and timeframes for things.16:42
hemnacan we backport a bug fix to remove the unsupported flag?16:42
SwansonBetter they know they aren't being supported now?16:42
bswartzjust because cinder team declares a driver unsupported doesn't mean that an end user can't obtain support from their distro for that driver16:42
bswartzthat's between them and the distro16:42
Swansonbswartz +116:42
smcginnisbswartz: Right.16:42
hemnabswartz, +116:42
smcginnisOK, what do folks think. Should we flag these as unsupported now?16:42
xyang2I disagree16:43
scottdaSeems like there's not much warning.16:43
bswartzI personally thing the time periods are too short16:43
patrickeastYea... Let's wait16:43
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jungleboyjWell, for future discussion I think we need to plan at what point we are going to do the last check for adding the unsupported flag.16:43
xyang2If on the wiki, it clearly says there's a percentage, then that is different16:43
SwansonOcata probably isn't the release to do this with.16:43
SwansonShort cycle and all.16:43
smcginnisjungleboyj: +116:43
bswartzbut if we agreed to them we should change the agreement or enforce it16:43
xyang2this criteria is not clearly published16:43
jungleboyjThat can go with the percentage discussion.16:43
hemnafwiw every time we discuss this everyone waffles on it.16:43
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hemnathis was the entire point of creating the unsupported flag vs. removal.16:44
Swansonhemna, Everyone becomes terrified and thinks back to the last time their CI broke for a month.16:44
hemnanow we will ship drivers that haven't had a working CI in 42+ days.16:44
bswartzI also think percentages are the wrong measure16:44
jungleboyjhemna, But we have successfully moved forward over time.16:44
smcginnishemna: We do have a few marked unsupported that I plan on removing in Pike. I'm just concerned about the timing right now.16:44
bswartzbut I agree with hemna, we have to enforce what we have, or decide to change the rules16:44
jungleboyjsmcginnis, ++ Timing ...16:44
xyang2yes we should enforce the rule, but the rule did not specify a percentage16:45
smcginnisAnd out of the handful that we marked unsupported, at least half came back and didn't realize things were failing and fixed it. But it took a few weeks for that to happen.16:45
scottdaBut before hemna 's latest scripts, did we have a good way of getting data on CIs running?16:45
xyang2so it is not a written rule16:45
hemnaI'd argue that the timing is perfect for it because the CI's are broken16:45
e0nebswartz. hemna: +116:45
scottda That needs to be consistent and reliable16:45
hemnaand that's the point of showing that they are unsupported.16:45
bswartzmaking rules and ignoring them is just bad16:45
SwansonOf course if a CI is failing at the point we are releasing a product doesn't that generally mean it doesn't work?16:45
hemnaand that they haven't been around working on it, haven't been around telling us that the CI is broken because of X16:45
hemnaand not participating.16:45
xyang2bswartz: there is rule written in wiki currently but that rule does not say percentage16:46
bswartzxyang2: +116:46
xyang2I go by what says on wiki16:46
hemnayah it doesn't say it16:46
hemnabut do you think we should ship a driver that hasn't had a working CI result in 42 days?16:46
Swansonhemna +116:46
e0nehemna: +116:46
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hemnaor a CI that has a 30% success rate in the same time period?16:46
smcginnisI think we keep getting better at our CI policy. Now that we have a good tool to get the data we need, I think at the PTG we can iterate again and make our policy more clear and be in a better position to enforce it.16:47
hemnaif everyone is ok with shipping drivers marked as supported when they are broken, that's cool.16:47
bswartzwe ship it, but give it a red mark of shame -- that's the point of "unsupported" right?16:47
jungleboyjThe incremental improvement has been the key.16:47
hemnabswartz, yes16:47
Swansonbswartz, +116:47
* smcginnis looks through the latest output again...16:47
smcginnishemna: Do you know the list of which ones would be affected if we did it now?16:48
SwansonDoes it matter who?16:48
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hemnaI'd have to call them out by looking at the results16:48
hemnaI didn't want to do that here.16:48
smcginnisJust getting an idea of how many are impacted.16:48
bswartzSwanson: +116:48
* jungleboyj pictures smcginnis pulling out his red marker.16:48
xyang2are there any driver not covered by this output?16:48
smcginnisBlockbridge has been 63 days. That should probably get flagged.16:48
hemnathe data is there.16:49
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hemnathats the list of CI's I used to run the report16:49
hemnaI think some of them are dead now16:50
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SwansonHow about we set the bar low for ocata and then wiki up a higher bar for pike?16:50
hemnaSwanson, +116:50
smcginnisSwanson: That's kind of what I was thinking.16:50
potsSwanson +116:50
scottdaSwanson: +116:50
xyang2hemna: that list might have missed some drivers16:50
bswartzhemna: nice job computing results on a per-jenkins-job basis16:50
erlonSwanson: +116:50
xyang2Swanson: +116:50
hemnacan we backport a bug fix to remove the flag after O ships?16:50
smcginnisBut a few of these are pretty bad, so I would be open to flagging a couple of these that are really bad. Two months is a bit extreme.16:50
hemnasmcginnis, that's why I wanted to raise this.  some are really bad.16:51
jungleboyjsmcginnis, What about the question of backporting removal of the flag?16:51
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smcginnishemna: To be fair, some of these are already flagged, so the list isn't really that big.16:52
erlonjungleboyj: that seems a bad move IMO16:52
smcginnisOr at least not as big as I originally thought.16:52
SwansonOr you could just mark them all unsupported and then, if people contact you, take it on a case by case basis. 2 months isn't extreme for someone to get hold of you.16:52
hemnathat's a good thing :)16:52
dulekjungleboyj: I would be fine if that's before the release. After the release that's a bad practice.16:52
jungleboyjerlon, That was my thought too, just curious what people though.16:53
smcginnisjungleboyj: Yeah, I think I'd want to leave that to folks like RH and Mirantis to decide to "unmark" them after the release.16:53
dulekjungleboyj: Distros would have different drivers supported depending on minor version of stable release they're based on.16:53
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jungleboyjdulek, Ew, that sounds messy.16:54
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smcginnisJust based on the discussion here, I would feel better if we don't do anything right now and improve our policy at the PTG.16:55
erlonI would vote for flagging the drivers that are really bellow the bar and set tight bars in the next release16:55
erlonbut once flagged, is flagled16:55
hemnaso 30%?16:55
hemnaor less?16:55
smcginniserlon: I'll filter through this list and see.16:55
smcginnisNo percentage at this point, just time since last reporting success.16:55
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erlonhemna: jenkins -15%?16:56
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jungleboyjsmcginnis, I think that is safest for now.16:56
hemnaerlon, that's an interesting but valid measure I'd say16:56
smcginnisThat's it, I'm kicking Jenkins out. :D16:56
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smcginnisHitachi is consolidated under one CI now, right?16:57
hemnathe interesting thing is that some of the jobs in CIs are mostly good, but 1, and it causes the overall % to drop16:57
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erlonsmcginnis: we have 2 accounts 1 for HNAS and another for VSP/HBSD16:57
smcginniserlon: OK. Is the third party wiki page up to date?16:57
erlonsmcginnis: I believe yes, have to double check16:58
smcginniserlon: OK, thanks.16:58
smcginnis2 minutes. Anything else?16:58
Swansonsmcginnis WEAK ON CI! SAD! SOGGY!16:58
potssmcginnis remember that there's a CI that was marked unsupported inadvertently--can we fix that today?16:58
smcginnisSwanson: :)16:59
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smcginnispots: What?16:59
potsthe hpmsa driver inherited the dothill driver's unsupported flag, but the hpmsa CI is running fine16:59
smcginnispots: I thought you or someone was going to submit a patch to unflag that one?17:00
jungleboyjSwanson, And he is our PTL again.  What have we done?17:00
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smcginnisjungleboyj: Hah!17:00
smcginnisTimes up, let's continue in #openstack-cinder.17:00
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openstackMeeting ended Wed Feb  1 17:00:37 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:00
openstackMinutes (text):
jungleboyjsmcginnis, Thanks!17:00
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bh526r#startmeeting gluon18:01
openstackMeeting started Wed Feb  1 18:01:06 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is bh526r. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gluon)"18:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'gluon'18:01
bh526r#topic Roll Call18:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: gluon)"18:01
bh526r#info Bin Hu18:01
krenczewski#info Kamil Renczewski18:01
bh526rHi guys18:01
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pcarver#info Paul Carver18:01
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bh526r#topic Admin Update18:01
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bh526r#info Our next F2F is Monday Feb 6 and Tuesday Feb 7. The logistics information is:18:02
bh526r#info Tentative agenda is:18:02
bh526r#info Hope to see many of you there18:03
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bh526r#topic Gluon Tasks18:03
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jinliHi all18:03
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jinli#info JinLi18:03
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bh526r#info The primary goal is to review the status of task completion.18:04
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bh526r#info and decide/close actions18:05
bh526r#topic Status Update18:05
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bh526r#info Synchronization Issues: (1) Between MySQL and etcd; (2) Bind operation with SDN controllers18:06
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bh526r#info We need to see how far we go when Ian attends the meeting next week18:06
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bh526r#info 2. OpenContrail's Mechanism Driver18:07
bh526rKamil, any update?18:07
krenczewskiI am still having some issues with my test environment18:07
krenczewskiIt turns out that my first config was wrong18:08
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bh526rI see, hope that the issues will be addressed soon18:08
krenczewskiSzilard helped me with some network issues18:08
bh526r#info Kamil is continuing on setting up test environment18:08
krenczewskiI think I am now close to finish this18:09
bh526rGreat that he helped18:09
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bh526rExcellent, thank you Kamil18:09
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krenczewskiI'll let you know when I fix those18:09
bh526rSounds good18:09
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bh526r#info 3. Configuration files to replace hardcoded constants18:10
bh526r#info we need to look through all code, and find those hardcoded constants first, and then put them into config files18:10
bh526r#info 4. Testing18:11
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bh526r#info Darla re-tested the test code after we merged new code of new API model.18:12
bh526r#info So this was approved and merged on Jan 2718:12
bh526rJin, did you have a chance to re-test those 2 test code based on most recent repo that merged new API code?18:13
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jinliI will need make some changes to these two18:13
jinliwill get it done by end and tomorrow and send you email to notify the change18:13
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bh526rGreat, and thank you Jin18:14
bh526r#info Jin will make some changes to those 2 test patches in order to support new API model18:14
bh526r#info 5. Devstack Integration18:15
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bh526r#info We will see how far it goes at the f2f next week18:15
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bh526r#info 6. Use of “etcd” approved by infrastructure team18:16
bh526r#info I (or Ian) will work with infrastructure team. But low priority for Ocata because of "unofficial" nature18:17
bh526r#info 7. Fuel Plugin18:17
bh526r#info Good progress. Szilard submitted patch 8 this morning.18:18
bh526r#info All are encouraged to review and comment18:18
bh526r#info 8. Nova enhancement and related Neutron work18:18
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bh526r#info this is another goal of F2F next week so as to lock down all details and Sukhdev will represent Gluon to work with Nova and Neutron in PTG in Atlanta18:19
bh526r#info 9. Misc18:20
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bh526r#info Tom and Kamal have done great job in new API model, and RBAC. We also need to see if any house cleaning work needed for those 2 features18:20
bh526r#info And I am working on user guide of how to develop Proton YAML18:21
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bh526rThat's all from my side18:21
bh526rany other update or issue from your side?18:22
pcarverI have a design question18:22
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pcarverdoes a port have to be owned by a single SDN controller?18:23
bh526rPort is bound to one backend at one time18:23
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bh526rSo at any moment, a port is owned by one SDN controller18:24
pcarverSo is something like Neutron's hierarchical port binding impossible?18:24
bh526rBut a port can be re-bound to another SDN controller at another time18:24
pcarverI'm thinking of an SR-IOV use case where there may be different controllers managing the server side and switch side configuration18:24
pcarverML2 handles this by dispatching the port events to multiple drivers simultaneously18:25
bh526rThat is the service binding model, the hierarchy described in Georg's service binding mode patch and Tom's API spec patch18:25
bh526rwhat does this "multiple drivers simultaneously" exactly mean?18:26
bh526rA port is owned by multiple drivers simultaneously?18:27
pcarveryes, for example the OvS driver and a physical switch driver is an example that has been done with Neutron18:27
bh526rThen when VM sends the traffic to the port, will all of the drivers also handle the traffic simultaneously?18:27
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pcarverthe drivers don't handle traffic but the things they configure do18:28
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pcarverSo if the OvS driver configured OvS and the Arista driver configured an Arista switch then the traffic would pass through both OvS and the Arista switch.18:29
bh526rIn above example, will OVS driver and physical switch driver then be managed by one SDN controller?18:29
pcarverThe particular use case I'm thinking of is when we need to configure an SR-IOV virtual function (VF) and a physical switch.18:29
pcarverNot in the Neutron hierarchical port binding case. The drivers are the controllers.18:30
bh526rCan SR-IOV VF and physical switch be handled by SDN Controller simultaneously?18:30
pcarverhypothetically they could, but the the software we're currently using can't18:31
bh526rIf yes, then the port is bound to one SDN controller which handles those drivers including SR-IOV VF and a physical switch18:31
pcarverWe're currently using one controller that only manages VFs and a different controller that only manages physical switches18:31
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bh526rI see. Refer to the service binding model patch:18:34
bh526rIn the first diagram, a port can have multiple interfaces. An interface can have multiple services18:35
pcarverI've read that, but it doesn't appear to give enough info to bind to multiple controllers18:35
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bh526rSo we need to define 2 service interfaces that subordinates of the port, and bind each service interface to one SDN controller respectively18:40
bh526rLet me work offline to give an exemplary model description for you18:41
bh526rVery good question18:41
bh526rAny other question?18:41
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bh526rIf no other question, I will work offline with Paul for this model of multiple service interfaces18:43
bh526rAnd we can adjourn the meeting, and give back everyone 17 minutes18:43
bh526r#info Meeting Adjourned18:43
bh526rThank you everyone, and bye all18:43
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openstackMeeting ended Wed Feb  1 18:44:00 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:44
openstackMinutes (text):
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zara_the_lemur__anybody around for the storyboard meeting?19:00
SotKI am here!19:01
SotK#startmeeting storyboard19:01
openstackMeeting started Wed Feb  1 19:01:17 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is SotK. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:01
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'storyboard'19:01
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SotK#link Agenda19:01
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SotK#topic Announcements19:02
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SotKI don't think we have any19:02
SotK#topic Urgent Items19:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Urgent Items (Meeting topic: storyboard)"19:02
SotK#topic In Progress Work19:02
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zara_the_lemur__I've spent the last couple of days investigating support for other databases19:03
zara_the_lemur__there are lots of logs19:03
zara_the_lemur__my brain is fried so I don't have much to add; logs are extensive19:04
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SotKtl;dr: we don't support them yet19:04
zara_the_lemur__I'm learning how to postgresql for the first time19:04
zara_the_lemur__I think other-db-support was dropped in 201419:05
zara_the_lemur__so it's an exciting adventure19:05
zara_the_lemur__and if people are looking for a sitcom, I would recommend my working day in #storyboard19:05
SotKmeanwhile I managed to have even less time than I hoped to work on the migration scripts19:05
zara_the_lemur__(I also spotted a patch from tristanC about supporting mariaDB so maybe that's going better than postgres)19:06
SotKand somehow managed to discover that what I thought was a small bug is actually a big bad "some people can't login" bug19:06
zara_the_lemur__good that you discovered it, though19:06
diablo_rojoIndeed, good that you found it19:07
zara_the_lemur__(Hello, diablo_rojo!)19:07
SotKwelcome diablo_rojo19:07
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SotK(the bug is that if for some reason we fail to find the person's openid, they won't be able to log in to the user which is assigned to all the tasks I believe)19:09
zara_the_lemur__ahh, right19:10
zara_the_lemur__hm, I wonder why we would fail to find their openid?19:10
SotKand in a related way sometimes duplicate users will attempt to be added and cause everything to break19:10
zara_the_lemur__the first bit sounds like something that could be worked around manually19:10
zara_the_lemur__(by updating the db directly)19:10
SotKidk, I need to debug the depths of the openid library I think19:10
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SotKon the plus side this week coming up is looking marginally less busy than last week turned out, so I should have more time to figure it out19:11
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zara_the_lemur__I might get to take a look since I'm looking at db things anyway, but wary of committing myself while I'm nowhere near finishing19:13
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zara_the_lemur__blogpost still in the works; I have plans upon plans so now I just gotta *write* the thing ;)19:14
zara_the_lemur__(it'll be fine; I always do this.)19:14
SotKanything else in progress?19:15
zara_the_lemur__there are various things in review19:16
zara_the_lemur__gimme a sec19:16
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diablo_rojoI have migration scripts for branches on my todo list, but I haven't gotten around to actually DOING it.19:19
zara_the_lemur__hahaha I just pasted a wall of text in the wrong channel19:19
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diablo_rojozara_the_lemur__, lol19:20
zara_the_lemur__#link is a change I sent yesterday19:20
zara_the_lemur__which made the first few migrations function with postgres19:20
zara_the_lemur__that said, the db migrations fail at 018 anyway so it's not urgent19:20
zara_the_lemur__and I haven't checked it behaves nicely with mysql19:20
zara_the_lemur__PM what a fantastic patch.19:20
zara_the_lemur__^ was what I sent elsewhere19:20
zara_the_lemur__erm ignore the PM19:20
zara_the_lemur__that was from the timestamp19:20
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zara_the_lemur__that I did not successfully remove when pasting19:20
zara_the_lemur__I should give up now19:21
zara_the_lemur__#link is a patch I have had no time to look at19:21
SotKI will take a look at things19:21
diablo_rojoI can give it a look at some point towards the end of this week.19:22
zara_the_lemur__then there are sotk's patches which he's -1'd but I might as well link for completeness19:22
zara_the_lemur__so we have those in the logs19:23
SotKthey need abandonment and making better I believe19:23
zara_the_lemur__okay, abandon away!19:23
zara_the_lemur__abandon with abandon, if you will19:23
zara_the_lemur__and now I'm looking at review I see I have still not fixed the logic in that permissions patch19:23
zara_the_lemur__and useless ops manual is still in there19:24
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* SotK makes that one go away19:25
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* zara_the_lemur__ mutters something about wishing for other people to try out the test openid server19:26
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zara_the_lemur__I can't talk, since I'm behind on everything19:26
SotKI can try to find time but can't promise anything19:26
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zara_the_lemur__I hear ya19:26
SotKanything else?19:27
zara_the_lemur__not from me19:27
SotK#topic Discussion19:28
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zara_the_lemur__I don't think I actually have anything this week19:30
zara_the_lemur__when I close my eyes I just see sqlalchemy error messages19:30
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SotKthe worst kind of error message19:31
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* zara_the_lemur__ tries to remember what utility it is that just goes 'there was an error' and quits19:31
zara_the_lemur__that probably qualifies as the actual worst19:31
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zara_the_lemur__oh, any ideas for the blogpost after this one?19:33
zara_the_lemur__aw I lost the bikeshed etherpad link19:33
zara_the_lemur__but that's a good place for them19:34
SotKI don't have it on hand19:34
SotKone sec19:34
diablo_rojoI think I put a few on there19:35
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diablo_rojoIs the post almost done?19:36
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zara_the_lemur__well, I know what's going in it; I tend to actually *write* things in a big lump at the last minute19:36
zara_the_lemur__so no alarm bells are ringing for me19:36
* diablo_rojo rings a bell19:37
diablo_rojozara_the_lemur__,  :)19:37
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diablo_rojoThe sooner we get that out the better I think.19:37
zara_the_lemur__I used to drive my English teachers mad xD19:37
zara_the_lemur__if it's not up by next meeting then I'm behind my internal deadline for it.19:38
diablo_rojozara_the_lemur__, should I set a due date for you?19:38
diablo_rojoLol that sounds good19:38
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* zara_the_lemur__ will emigrate before next week then :D19:40
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zara_the_lemur__I think I'm all done for this meeting19:40
diablo_rojozara_the_lemur__, me too19:41
* SotK gives it a minute19:42
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SotKtime to end then19:45
SotKthanks folks19:45
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"19:45
openstackMeeting ended Wed Feb  1 19:45:41 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)19:45
openstackMinutes (text):
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notmynameswift team meeting time21:00
notmyname#startmeeting swift21:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Feb  1 21:00:10 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)"21:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'swift'21:00
notmynamewho's here for the swift team meeting?21:00
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notmyname...waiting just a bit for a few more people21:01
joeljwrightc'mon clayg!21:01
timburkei can see him...21:02
notmynamejoeljwright: he was so excited about it today ;-)21:02
notmynameacoles_ won't be here today21:02
zaitceva door jammed in a toilet stall?21:02
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notmynameI'm not sure about jrichli (she might be in an airport)21:02
notmynamesame with bkeller21:03
jungleboyjGoing to try and sit in on meetings more often.21:03
notmynamejoeljwright: it's the best part of the week21:03
claygjungleboyj: great!21:03
notmynameok, let's get started21:03
notmynamewelcome, everyone to the swift team meeting21:03
jungleboyj:-)  A new friend from Lenovo!21:03
jungleboyjOr an old IBM friend ... depending on how you look at it.21:03
notmynameonly two big topics to cover this week. so let's do the faster one first21:04
notmyname#topic ptg prep21:04
*** openstack changes topic to "ptg prep (Meeting topic: swift)"21:04
notmynamethat etherpad is for the three days we have at the ptg in a few weeks21:04
notmynameplease add stuff and fill out info21:05
notmynameeach of those topics need more info on them21:05
notmyname(yes I know I added most, so it's my fault more than others that it isn't filled out...)21:05
notmynamehowever, if you've got something to talk about, or if you know about somethng that's already written down, add info about it to the etherpad21:05
claygnotmyname: I feel like we used to have stuff like "wtf is this; who care about this; relevent docs/code/ideas" or some stuff?21:06
notmynamestarting next week (about a week from now) we'll organize who's interested in what so we do schaduling of the big topics21:06
notmynameclayg: in the past I've done a small template of name/description/interested for each21:07
claygnotmyname: something like that would probably be good - you don't have to do it now21:07
claygor do it now21:07
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notmynameok, I added a template. all those existing things need to be filled out21:08
notmynameand new stuff, too, as it's added21:08
notmynamethe PTG shouldn't have any surprises for us, with the way the swift room will work21:08
notmynamewe'll do this very much like we've done past summits and hackathons21:09
tdasilvanotmyname: sounds like we won't have a projector there thou...21:09
notmynamewe'll rearrange tables/chairs and break apart21:09
tdasilvaor TV21:09
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notmynametdasilva: oh, interesting. I missed that. whiteboards?21:09
tdasilvaI thought I saw an email from ttx on that21:09
notmynamethe etherpads for all the other projects are at21:10
notmynameso take a look at those if there's a topic that we need to participate in (especially for monday-tuesday)21:10
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notmynameeg the py35 support will probably be something we should be a part of to some extent21:11
notmynameFYI there will be several people who are only at the PTG for wed-fri21:12
notmynameany questions on the PTG or prep?21:12
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notmynameok, then let's move on to the release21:13
notmyname#topic upcoming release21:14
*** openstack changes topic to "upcoming release (Meeting topic: swift)"21:14
notmynamebefore the ptg the openstack ocata release will be finalized21:14
notmynamethat's happening the week of Feb 1321:14
notmynamewe are responsible for getting a tag on swift21:14
notmynamethe priority reviews wiki page has the stuff that we're working through to get done before the release21:14
zaitcevlooks like good progress21:15
notmynameyeah, it is21:15
notmynamethanks everyone for reviewing patches and responding to the reviews21:15
notmyname is the last of the "fix stuff to be better" patches that needs to land21:15
notmynametimburke already has a +2 on it, so just needing one more core to take a look21:16
notmynameis anyone currently reviewing that?21:16
notmynameclayg: do you know?21:16
timburketorgomatic around? no?21:16
notmynamelooks like mattoliverau and sam have looked21:16
claygknow what?21:17
notmynameIIRC mattoliverau just went on a trip or something (left today)21:17
notmynameclayg: who elese might be looking21:17
claygnotmyname: yeah that's ready to go21:17
claygI think torgomatic and be tricked into a +A21:18
claygmattoliverau: knows the problem space and signed off on the design21:18
notmynamelet's bug torgomatic and see if we can get his +A21:19
notmynameclayg: what was the patch you wanted to make people aware of?21:19
claygit'd be nice for acknowledgement from addl. core about my hi-jacking of handoffs_*first* - but everyone seems to understand the use-case for EC to prefer revert is *super* important21:19
notmynamewith the upgrade issue21:19
claygso this seems like the most straight forward path - although going into a major release it's possible there's some important meta-work even if we want the code to do exactly what's written21:19
zaitcevI'm very weak in the reconstructor area, unfortunately, but I can give it a good try...21:20
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clayg needs to land21:20
claygit's the final form of the suffix hashing fix21:20
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claygit's at least as important as the handoffs_first mode for EC fix21:20
claygwas hoping to get PavelK to sign off21:20
notmynameah right. and I'd missed it on the wiki21:20
timburkeclayg: did you ever give those docs a look through to see if any of your patches change things?21:21
notmynameonovy: ^21:21
claygin the 11th hour we'd discovered the data format migration of hashes.pkl isn't as backwards compatible as we thought21:21
claygso if you rollback you'll be unhappy until you delete all your hashes.pkl21:21
claygbut... you know - don't rollback21:21
claygthere was a bunch of %^&*ing bugs in the old code!21:21
notmynameso clean upgrade path, but with a rollback issue21:21
claygnotmyname: correct!21:22
notmynamewhen it comes time for the changelog, please help me remember that :-)21:22
claygbut srly, don't rollback - that junk on master is broken21:22
notmynameI'm really curious how many times ops have done a partial swift upgrade and rolled back21:22
claygi stuck an UpgradeImpact in the commit - dunno if that helps21:22
claygI've only done it once #neveragain21:23
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zaitcevI never had to do it. Not even when policy indexes were added.21:23
claygnot that anyone cares - but I'm going to merge cschwede's patch to fix this thing that really get's under my skin in swift-ring-builder
notmynameI'm not aware of it being a thing people do. good to note int eh changelog though21:24
notmynameclayg: ack21:24
notmynameok, kota_'s global ec patch21:24
notmynamekota_: what's the status there?21:24
notmynameI really would like to see that in this release :-)21:25
kota_notmyname: I hope so21:25
kota_notmyname: i think clayg and timburke is continuing the reviews21:25
kota_notmyname: only one rebase happend in this week21:25
claygalso on the hashes fix ( - it's a trixy little bit of code that took a bunch of work to get right - cschwede and PavelK (onovy) know what's going on21:25
claygI'm not sure who/when is going to +A21:25
notmynameclayg: do you want to get cschwede to give his blessing?21:26
notmynamekota_: that's good :-)21:26
notmynamekota_: looks like the current patch set is ready for next round of reviews21:26
claygnotmyname: ok well it's *really* important to note that ec_duplication is not a complete solution to global EC21:26
kota_notmyname: yes21:26
notmynamekota_: clayg: timburke: what's your sense of landing this patch this week? likely? possible? no way it's happening?21:27
claygnotmyname: I'm all for getting it in - but we won't be "delivering" anything to anyone that runs swift - it's only for dev/testing - first step on a journey - i'm acctually not entirely clear the right way to docuemnt or "release" ec_duplication - but I'm definately interested in the global ec story (I think the reconstructor is finally ready for it!)21:27
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claygnotmyname: I'd just be leary focusing on ec_duplicates during the final RC weeks if there's other operationally impactful stuff that needs to go in the release.21:29
timburkekota_: can we ensure good dispersion of the duplicates? if we can't, should we still land it (as experimental) and iterate?21:29
claygbut for my part - I'm done with operational stuff as soon as the handoffs_first and better suffix hashing land - then I'm full on 'development on future"21:29
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kota_timburke: not yet. to ensure the dispersion, we need to have one more big patch (i.e. composite ring) imo21:30
notmynameclayg: AFAIK, the other operationally impactful stuff has been landed (or just about to)21:30
timburkekota_: make sense21:30
claygso ec_duplciates is the right place for me to focus AFAIK - but it's not relevant in/out of the release for me21:30
notmynamemy understanding is that "in the release" is actually more important for kota_. so I'd defer to him on that question21:31
claygI think the important thing is that we have ec_duplicates under our belt by PTG so we can make progress on what needs to happen to finish global EC in the next cycle21:31
notmyname(bringing in the "fun" reality that we work for employers who want to see certain things happening)21:31
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claygI'll commit to "will land before Atlanta" - I might advocate for *not* in the release because of the experimental nature - but i'm open to being pushed around because of the long history of the patch21:32
claygI still stand by the reconstrcutor wasn't ready for work to begin until now - kota_ literally lives in the future - we've finally caught up21:32
kota_clayg: the commit sounds ok, "will land before Atlanta"21:32
notmynamekota_: what do you need or want? does this need to land in this OpenStack ocata release?21:32
notmynameah ok21:32
kota_hopefully it's in Ocata21:32
notmynamethe truth is, the window between the ocata release and the PTG is Friday February 1721:33
notmynameclayg: ^21:33
claygnotmyname: when does the RC get pulled off master?21:34
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notmynameI'll likely have to tag the ocata release on the 16th21:34
notmynameit's up to us, but the 16th is likely the last day possible21:34
notmynameand the ptg starts the following monday21:34
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notmynameso that being said, let's say we'll land this patch both "before atlanta" and also "in the ocata release"21:35
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notmynamesound ok?21:36
notmynameclayg: timburke?21:36
timburkei think we can do that21:36
claygnotmyname: I think "in ocata release" puts a bigger burdon to ensure the experimental nature is properly documented - but maybe only marginally so21:37
timburkeand it leaves us in a place where we can justify backporting the composite rings work21:37
claygoh dear goodness21:37
notmynameor not21:37
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clayglook - if you don't backport this feature ec_duplciation_factor doesn't give you global ec!?21:38
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timburkelumpy duplicates seems like a pretty bad place to be -- look, i can get m + k fragments! wait, i still can't reconstruct...21:38
notmynameno need to figure out backport policies for future work. we've got enough to think about for now21:38
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timburketrue enough21:39
notmynamefor now, land the patch we've got and we'll try hard to have good words in the release notes and docs about it21:39
notmynameok, now we need to have the same conversation about the part power increase patch
notmynameagain, an old patch with a ton of work21:40
notmynameI didn't see if cschwede was actually here today or not21:40
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notmynametimburke and zaitcev have been looking at it, along with some others21:40
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notmynameand mattoliverau21:40
notmynamebut again, IIR mattoliverau's out for the rest of the week21:41
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notmynameso where on we on this patch? will it land? what needs to happen?21:41
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timburkei'm fairly confident we can get it landed. seems really really close21:41
tdasilvait would be great to see it land before ocata21:41
zaitcevI convinced myself that it does the right thing, but I'd like to have someone else look, I may be getting dull to something obvious (like %f format hehe).21:42
notmynametdasilva: have you been looking at this one? I see you were added, but I don't see any comments21:42
notmynamekota_: same question ^21:42
tdasilvanotmyname: did not21:43
notmynametdasilva: ok21:43
kota_notmyname: not yet21:43
notmynamekota_: ok21:43
notmynamekota_: you've got the EC patch to spend time on21:43
kota_notmyname: true21:43
timburkei just want to say, i'm very sad that we do `... >> (32 - part_power)` instead of `... & ((1 << (part_power + 1)) - 1)`21:43
zaitcevYeah. I didn't bug Kota21:43
notmynameis there someone else who can take a look at this part power increas patch?21:44
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claygtimburke: i don't get it21:44
notmynameclayg: makes more sense when he draws it on a whiteboard21:45
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timburkeclayg: the way things are, increasing part_power moves *everything*. if we did it the other way, only half the world moves21:45
claygnotmyname: doubt it?21:45
claygnotmyname: the part-power-increase is a good example of something that has the potential to acctually impact swift operational deployments in octocat21:46
timburkeit's the difference between mapping X to either 2X or 2X + 1, and mapping X to either X or 2^n + X21:46
notmynametdasilva: would you be able to look at this patch this week?21:46
claygnotmyname: if we're resourced constrained and need to make hard calls you know where my heart lies21:47
tdasilvanotmyname: yeah, i can. One of the reason I haven't was more because we (rht) didn't feel comfortable we pushing it all (christian, pete and I)21:47
tdasilvaso I could review and not +A ??21:48
notmynametdasilva: ack, but (1) I've not ever seen that as a problem in all the years of swift and (2) it's also got a huge about of input from rax and swiftstack21:48
timburketdasilva: if it makes you feel better, i'm happy to be the +A21:48
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timburke...when the time comes, of course21:49
tdasilvanotmyname, timburke sounds good21:49
notmynameok, thanks21:49
notmynameanything else to cover about the upcoming release?21:49
claygtimburke: does it acctually effect the consumption of inodes?  do the parts that "don't move" still need hardlinks under the epoch-tree or whatever it's called?21:49
cschwedenotmyname: sorry, just arrived home :/21:50
claygtimburke: because if you can really decrase the inode useage by 2x - that should totally happen21:50
notmynamecschwede: no worries21:50
* cschwede goes reading the backlog21:50
zaitcevclayg: yes, temporarily 2x inodes, then back when relinker finishes21:50
claygnotmyname: is symlinks really further out than ec_duplicates and part-power-increase?21:50
claygnotmyname: what about tdasilva's patch that fixes 200 after DELETE21:51
notmynametdasilva: symlink question should go to you21:51
claygzaitcev: not just 2x - but +2x - a 200% increase (not just 100%)21:51
claygzaitcev: I wasn't clear if timburke's "I wish" was an oppertunity to get it down to 100%?21:52
tdasilvare: symlinks, timburke has left some great comments (but I think they are all minor fixups) so I've been waiting for more comments to try to limit the number of changes.21:52
tdasilvathe big ticket item that is left is the symlink target path on the container db that we talked about21:53
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claygoh right forgot about that one21:53
notmynameclayg: no. he want's a time machine to change the way the ring was written in 200921:53
timburkeclayg: my "i wish" would get us from a 2x during the migration down to a 1.5x, only we can't do it, because that's not how part_power works21:53
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claygtimburke: notmyname: ok great - I've wiped the conversation from my mind - thank you!21:54
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claygtdasilva: do you want to merge w/o putting the target in the container db or do you want someone to write a POC21:55
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tdasilvaclayg: I was planning on working on that as a dependent patch that would evolve on its own21:55
tdasilvaagain to limit the number of patchsets21:55
tdasilvaand if we think it is good, maybe we can squash ??21:56
timburketdasilva: looks like there were still some func test failures -- is that just because of the post-as-copy stuff? would a rebase fix most of those?21:56
tdasilvatimburke: yes21:56
claygyeah doing the POC in the follow on patch would be a great idea - my question is about merge.21:56
notmynameoh, and we need to get the community qa cluster redeployed with fast post I think too21:56
tdasilvatimburke: actually, not a rebase, we might need to skip symlink func tests if slow-post is on21:56
tdasilvasince we don't plan on supporting that at all21:57
claygeither we think we should merge w/o names in the listing (and effectively agree it just NBD if it ever happens, same as other manifest objects) or we want to see the POC and make the go-no-go call *before* we merge21:57
tdasilvanotmyname: right21:57
clayg... specifically becase we recognize it's hard to go back if you don't start with the data at point A21:57
tdasilvaclayg: agree, might also be an argument for not landing it for ocata21:58
notmynamewe're running out of time in the meeting room21:58
timburkeyup, 'cause we've still got the post-as-copy coverage. i still think we *could* support it if we really wanted, but maybe this'll be a nice carrot to incent people to get off the old, bad, slow code?21:58
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tdasilvatimburke: don't really want ;)21:58
claygok so no symlinks in octocat - wfm - we'll POC the names in the listings as soon as we can find a box of round tuits21:58
jrichlisorry im late o/21:58
tdasilvaclayg: yeah, my plan is to start playing with that POC before the end of this week21:59
tdasilvaclayg: jrichli is also looking at container sync for symlinks, so yeah, there's still some WIP21:59
claygtdasilva: well given the release crunch - it might be better to have you on some other outstanding issues21:59
notmynameok, so the plan is the landing of the smaller patches (most of which already have the reviews)21:59
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claygI'd like to pick up advocating for the GET 200 after DELETE fix (the 404 x-backend-timestamp bug thing)22:00
tdasilvanotmyname: fair enough22:00
tdasilvaclayg: that I do need help with22:00
notmynameclayg: ok. add it to the wiki page22:00
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claygtdasilva: ^ +1 get it on the wiki page22:00
claygthat's time yeah?22:00
tdasilvaclayg: i think we are done here22:01
notmyname....and the plan for the others is to continue to iterate and review the ec repl patch and the part power increase patch22:01
notmynameyeah, we're over time22:01
notmynamethanks everyone for coming. thanks for working on swift22:01
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openstackMeeting ended Wed Feb  1 22:01:28 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)22:01
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