Tuesday, 2017-02-28

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hongbin#startmeeting zun03:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Feb 28 03:01:09 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is hongbin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.03:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.03:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zun)"03:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'zun'03:01
hongbin#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun#Agenda_for_2017-02-28_0300_UTC Today's agenda03:01
hongbin#topic Roll Call03:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: zun)"03:01
hongbinthanks for joining the meeting pksingh kevinz Namrata lakerzhou Wenzhi03:02
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hongbin#topic Project mascot03:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Project mascot (Meeting topic: zun)"03:02
hongbin#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-February/112516.html03:02
hongbinthis is a continued discussion from the last meeting03:02
hongbinwe need to choose a team mascot to repersent zun03:03
hongbinso far, the proposed mascot is03:03
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hongbinany other proposal?03:03
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hongbinseems no :)03:04
hongbini was told that barrel falcon are not a good choice03:04
eliqiaohaha ...03:05
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hongbinbarrel is not animal or natual element, so disqualify03:05
hongbinfalcon seems to be chosen by other team03:05
eliqiaohow about mythi03:05
hongbinwhat is left is03:05
lakerzhouseems fish/ocean animals are popular for container projects03:05
hongbineliqiao: what is mythi? picture?03:06
hongbinlakerzhou: yes, it seems it is03:06
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hongbinlakerzhou: you have a proposal?03:06
eliqiaohongbin: wait a min03:06
lakerzhouI vote for dolphin03:06
hongbinlakerzhou: ack03:07
eliqiaohttps://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj57ZP257HSAhUN5WMKHSnZD4sQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.30yes.com%2Fcontent%2F99531.html&bvm=bv.148073327,d.cGc&psig=AFQjCNE7qQHCJ5FR6N4PQeJ15GAJkkOIlg&ust=1488337626958245 hongbin03:07
Wenzhiah... Pi Xiu03:08
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pksingheliqiao: page in chineese :(, i cant read it03:08
eliqiaoyep :)03:08
hongbini am from chinese, but i still don't know what is pi xiu :)03:09
hongbinfirst time see t03:09
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eliqiaohttp://www.wentaisun.co.uk/culture.php?culture_id=5 hongbin pksingh03:10
Wenzhiit's a mythical animal03:10
eliqiaoPi Xiu03:10
eliqiaoWenzhi: :)03:10
hongbineliqiao: ok, thanks for the proposal03:10
hongbinany other proposed mascot?03:10
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pksingheliqiao: thanks for english version03:11
hongbinok, if nothing else, let's have a vote03:11
hongbinhere is the choice03:11
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hongbin1. Storks03:11
hongbin2. Dolphins03:11
hongbin3. Tiger03:12
hongbin4. Pi Xiu03:12
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hongbinall, happy voting03:12
hongbinno vote?03:13
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eliqiao4 :)03:13
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hongbinkevinz: ^^03:13
hongbinNamrata: ^^03:13
kevinzhi  I prefer 203:14
Wenzhieliqiao: seems Pi Xiu is not a natural element either03:14
hongbinok, all thanks for your vote03:14
hongbinWenzhi: ^^03:14
hongbini am not sure if it is nature as well03:14
hongbinbut we decided 203:15
WenzhiGo Dolphins03:15
eliqiaoK. cool..03:15
hongbin#agreed choose dolphins as the zun team mascot03:15
hongbinok, move on03:15
hongbin#topic Cinder integration (diga)03:15
*** openstack changes topic to "Cinder integration (diga) (Meeting topic: zun)"03:15
hongbinit seems diga is not here03:15
hongbinanyone else want to discuss this topic?03:16
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hongbinok, next one03:16
hongbin#topic Kuryr integration (hongbin)03:16
*** openstack changes topic to "Kuryr integration (hongbin) (Meeting topic: zun)"03:16
hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/kuryr-integration The BP03:16
hongbinfor this one, i am waiting for the kuryr patches to merge03:17
hongbini will continue to work on it03:17
hongbinany question for this bp?03:17
pksinghhongbin: i have one question03:17
hongbinpksingh: go ahead03:18
pksinghhongbin: if user create any network, would you pass that to nova docker driver in nics option?03:18
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hongbinpksingh: i haven't thought through it carefully03:19
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hongbinpksingh: i will try to get the native docker driver work at the first iteration03:20
pksinghhongbin: actually i was thinking we should, because you are implementing the same in docker driver, but not sure03:20
hongbinpksingh: then, i check if it fits into nova-docker in the second iteration03:20
pksinghhongbin: cool03:20
hongbinpksingh: yes, i am open to that03:20
pksinghhongbin: i tried this day before yesterday and it works :)03:21
hongbinok, any other question?03:21
hongbin#topic Introduce host capabilities and cpusets (sudipto)03:22
*** openstack changes topic to "Introduce host capabilities and cpusets (sudipto) (Meeting topic: zun)"03:22
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/427007/ The spec03:22
hongbinit looks sudipta is not here, i can update on behalf03:22
hongbini worked with sudipta to submit a few patches for this03:23
hongbinfirst, there is a spec03:23
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/427007/03:23
hongbinhe revised the spec to make it simple at the first iteration03:23
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pksinghhongbin: will look into it today03:24
hongbinwe tried the resource provider model, but found it is very complicated03:24
hongbinpksingh: ack03:24
hongbinafter dicussion, we decided to switch to a simpler model (compute_node model)03:24
hongbinwe will switch to the resource_provider model later, possibly after nova split out its scheduler03:25
hongbinthat is the plan03:25
eliqiaohongbin: ACK, we can switch back to resource provider after it get implemented.03:25
hongbineliqiao: yes03:25
eliqiaomaybe 3/4 release later.03:25
hongbinyes, and we pushed up a few patches for that03:25
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/436714/03:25
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/436572/03:26
hongbinthe first patch is the datamodel03:26
hongbinthe second patch is the basic for inventory numa resources03:26
hongbinthat is all from my side03:26
hongbinany question?03:27
hongbinok, next topic03:27
hongbin#topic Discussion of the image API03:27
*** openstack changes topic to "Discussion of the image API (Meeting topic: zun)"03:27
hongbin#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-image-api the etherpad03:27
hongbinit looks there are a lot of discussion of the image api03:28
hongbinso i created an etherpad to let everyone work on the design03:28
hongbinall, please feel free to cast your input to the etherpad03:28
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hongbinwe can revisit the etherpad in the next meeting03:28
hongbinany comment for the image api?03:29
pksinghare we discussing on etherpad?03:29
hongbinpksingh: yes, we can03:29
pksinghthat would be better03:30
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hongbinpksingh: do you have any comment to bring it up here, or prefer to work on the etherpad later?03:30
pksinghhongbin: i have the same comment, if we want to have the API, then we can go ahead as suggested in etherpad03:31
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hongbinpksingh: ok03:31
hongbinthen, next topic03:31
hongbin#topic Use 'uuid' instead of 'id' as object ident in data model (Wenzhi)03:31
*** openstack changes topic to "Use 'uuid' instead of 'id' as object ident in data model (Wenzhi) (Meeting topic: zun)"03:31
hongbin#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-February/112585.html03:31
hongbinWenzhi: want to lead this discussion?03:32
Wenzhiper the feedback form the maillist, seems everyone agree with this proposal -- replace 'id' with 'uuid'03:32
Wenzhiactually I already replaced the 'id' with 'uuid' in etcd API backend for containers/images03:33
hongbinWenzhi: yes, it seems so03:33
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hongbinthen, we need to work on the sql side03:34
WenzhiI plan to leave the sql side as it is by now03:34
Wenzhiand start with etcd side03:34
Wenzhiif everything goes fine, then we can modify the sql side03:35
pksinghWenzhi: +103:35
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kevinzWenzhi: +103:36
hongbinWenzhi: mind creating a bp for the sql side when the finished the etcd side?03:36
hongbinWenzhi: thx03:36
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hongbin#action Wenzhi created a bp for migrate from 'id' to 'uuid' in the sql backend once the etcd backend is finishing migration03:36
hongbinany other comment on this topic?03:37
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hongbinthen, move to the last topic in the agenda03:38
hongbin#topic Introduce container composition03:38
*** openstack changes topic to "Introduce container composition (Meeting topic: zun)"03:38
hongbinWenzhi: kevinz : any of you want to lead this topic?03:38
kevinzHi hongbin03:38
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/437759/03:38
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kevinzwe just finish the WIP specs for this03:39
Wenzhiyes, still need to address some comments03:39
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hongbinWenzhi: ack03:40
kevinzRight, we've introduce the new object "capsule", the same as the compose or pod03:40
hongbinyes, there is one thing we need to give it more thoughts03:41
hongbinthat is how do you like to design the "capsule", i.e. make it as compose, or make it as a pod03:42
hongbinor make it between docker compose and k8s pod03:43
lakerzhouwhat is the use case of the capsule? pod is specific to k8s.03:43
WenzhiIMO we can make it a 'pod', and add support for docker compose file03:43
hongbinlakerzhou: there is a demand to run multiple container and patch them into the same host03:44
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hongbinlakerzhou: i think the use case is simple, run a containerized application that are comprosed with multiple containers03:45
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hongbinWenzhi: ack03:45
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Wenzhiyes, the user cases are just like k8s pod03:45
hongbinany other comment about the pod vs compose debate?03:46
pksinghso it will be like POD correct?03:47
hongbinpksingh: that depends on how we designed it03:47
hongbinpksingh: we can make it like a k8s pod or a docker compose03:48
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pksinghin future if we are going to integrate with k8, then i think we may need pod like thing03:48
hongbinpksingh: yes, it might03:49
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hongbinit seems most people prefer to make it like a pod?03:50
pksingh+1 for pod03:50
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hongbinok, we can continue the discussion in the review03:51
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hongbinmy suggestion is to take care the portability03:52
hongbinfor example, if we make it as a pod, make sure the file format are similar to pod03:52
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hongbinthen, users can easily migrate between pod and capsule03:52
Wenzhigot it03:53
kevinzack, thanks hongbin03:53
pksinghhongbin: +103:53
hongbinok, then let's enter open discussion03:53
hongbin#topic Open Discussion03:53
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: zun)"03:53
hongbinNamrata: i knew you were working hard on the heat side, do you want to give some updates?03:53
NamrataHongbin I will update the patches today03:54
Namratano other updates03:54
hongbinNamrata: ack03:54
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hongbinNamrata: i saw those patches, which will look very good after addressing the outstanding comments03:55
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Namratayes.I will work on that03:55
Namratathanks for the help hongbin03:55
hongbinNamrata: thanks for the work03:55
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hongbinall, do you have any other topic to bring up?03:56
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hongbinit seems no03:57
hongbinall, thanks for joining the meeting03:57
pksinghbye all03:57
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"03:57
openstackMeeting ended Tue Feb 28 03:57:19 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)03:57
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-02-28-03.01.html03:57
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-02-28-03.01.txt03:57
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-02-28-03.01.log.html03:57
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samPhi all..04:00
sagarasamP: Hi04:00
samP #startmeeting masakari04:00
samP#startmeeting masakari04:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Feb 28 04:00:50 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is samP. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.04:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.04:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: masakari)"04:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'masakari'04:00
samPHi all, right after PTG..04:01
samPlets start with bugs...04:01
samP#topic open bugs04:01
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tpatil# link: https://bugs.launchpad.net/masakari/+bug/166351304:01
openstackLaunchpad bug 1663513 in masakari "Masakari failed to rescue PAUSED instances" [Undecided,Confirmed] - Assigned to Dinesh Bhor (dinesh-bhor)04:01
Dinesh_BhorHi all04:01
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tpatilNeed feedback on Dinesh's comment on LP bug04:02
Dinesh_Bhor# link: https://bugs.launchpad.net/masakari/+bug/1663513/comments/504:03
openstackLaunchpad bug 1663513 in masakari "Masakari failed to rescue PAUSED instances" [Undecided,Confirmed] - Assigned to Dinesh Bhor (dinesh-bhor)04:03
sagaraI agree Dinesh opinion. I also Masakari should maintain the vm_state before recovery.04:04
samPI agree that we need to maintain the consistency for VM state. Hoever rescue VM has same issue, right?04:04
Dinesh_BhorsamP: yes04:05
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samPOK, then solution is, store the previous state of the VM and, return it to previous state after doing recovery04:06
samPI mean, the solution should be a general one for all cases.04:06
tpatilsamP: At the time of instance recovery action, if the vm is in paused vm state, then what should be the final vm state after executing recovery action?04:07
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tpatilsamP: this question is in context of the scenario highlighted in above LP bug04:08
samPtpatil: I think we can not use reset-state api to set the state to PAUSED, right?04:09
Dinesh_BhorsamP: yes, we can only set to error or active04:09
samPfor instance recovery action it should be, paused-> active -> paused04:11
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samPtpatil: IMO, final state should be paused04:12
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tpatilsamP: OK, for all other cases, vm state will go into ACTIVE status04:12
tpatilsamP: for above LP bug, the final vm_state will be PAUSED04:13
samPtpatil: yes.04:13
tpatilsamP: Thank you04:13
sagaraI think PAUSED VM are going to lost their memory, and it not working before recovery, so is it good to remain it SHUTDOWN?04:13
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tpatilsagara: You have a good point there04:14
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samPsagara: correct. once we start the VM, we will lose the internal state of the VM04:15
samPon the other hand, if shutdown it, it will not be the expected recovery04:17
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tpatilThere should be some indication to the user that the instance has been recovered due to qemu process termination04:17
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tpatilif we keep the vm_state into PAUSED state04:19
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tpatilWhat would operators do if such problem occurs at present?04:21
samPif the VM in PAUSED state, doing nothing would be a solution?04:21
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samPtpatil: I think currently we are not using that API, but let me confirm it04:22
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sagarasamP: please confirm it.04:22
sagaraIt might be nice to have some configuration. operator(admin) or user can specify VM recovery state, system default and per VM or per segment.04:23
samPsagara: sure, I will do.04:23
samPI will ask around for how ops handaling this issue, including sagara's point.04:25
samPAnd, I will update the LP for this.04:25
tpatilsamP: Ok, please add your feedback on the LP bug04:26
tpatilsamP: thank you04:26
samP#action samP Add FP to https://bugs.launchpad.net/masakari/+bug/166351304:26
openstackLaunchpad bug 1663513 in masakari "Masakari failed to rescue PAUSED instances" [High,Confirmed] - Assigned to Dinesh Bhor (dinesh-bhor)04:26
samPOther bugs?04:27
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sagaraTakahara reported a bug04:28
sagara# link: https://bugs.launchpad.net/masakari/+bug/166724604:28
openstackLaunchpad bug 1667246 in masakari "When masakari-engine adds reserved_host to aggregate, 404 error occurs" [Undecided,Fix released] - Assigned to takahara.kengo (takahara.kengo)04:28
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sagaraHonjo and me, already reviewed this patch, and yesterday it merged.04:29
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samPsagara: thanks04:30
tpatilsamP: Do we need to back port this patch to stable/ocata branch?04:30
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samPtpatil: thatz what im thinking now04:31
samPI think this is critical and better to back port to oacata. any objections?04:32
sagarasamP, tpatil: I think it is high or critical bug. reserved host feature could not work without this patch, so we must do backport that stable/ocata.04:33
samPif no objections, lets back port this to stable/ocata04:34
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sagarasamP: I agree to backport.04:34
tpatilsamP: sure, we will upload patch today04:34
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samP#action tpatil backport https://review.openstack.org/#/c/437312/ to stable/ocata04:35
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samPtpatil: I hv just put that action to you.04:35
tpatilsamP: ok04:36
samPtpatil: thank you04:36
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tpatilsamP: we need functional test soon to find out such issues04:37
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samPtpatil: agree, lets discuss pike work items including functional tests.04:38
tpatilsamP: sure04:39
samPtpatil: sorry that I didn't have time to sort the things. Lets have that discussion on next week IRC, I'll create a etherpad for this.04:39
samPany other bus to discuss?04:40
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tpatilsamP: Ok04:40
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sagarasamP: ok04:40
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samPIs this still valid https://bugs.launchpad.net/masakari-monitors/+bug/1661517 ?04:41
openstackLaunchpad bug 1661517 in masakari-monitors "masakari-instancemonitor fails to start with error “required config option auth-url”" [Undecided,New] - Assigned to Pooja Jadhav (poojajadhav)04:41
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tpatilsamP: I will request Pooja to try it on the latest masakari-monitors code04:42
samPtpatil: sure, thanks04:43
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samPif no other bugs, lets jump into discussion04:43
samP#topic discussion points04:43
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samPAs I said previously, I will create a etherpad for pike work items. Please add any item you would like to work or any proposals are welcome.04:44
tpatilsamP: Ok04:45
samPI would like to discuss those items and prioratize them in our next IRC.04:45
sagarasamP: OK04:45
samP#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/masakari-pike-workitems04:47
samPHere ^^ is the link for Pike work items04:47
sagaraas of now, it has no contents :)04:48
samPI will also create wiki item for pike release schedule which will be same as other official projects04:49
samPsagara: Just created it :), I will populate it with my thoughts later..04:49
tpatilI will add " Implement auto_priority and rh_priority recovery_methods" as pike work item. Dinesh has already pushed patch for this implementation04:50
tpatil#link : https://review.openstack.org/#/c/43366904:50
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samPtpatil: thanks, that will do04:50
samPany other points to discuss?04:51
samPah.. I will share PTG updates for masakari in mail.04:52
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samPif no other topics, lets jump in to AOB04:52
samP#topic AOB04:52
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samPNothing else to discuss, lets finish the meeting..04:57
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samPThank you all for your time...04:57
tpatilsamP: yes04:57
sagarasamP: I heard from you, TC are willing to add mentor to our project. When does it starts?, do we need anything to prepare?04:58
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samPsagara: I have reach them first. I will post that details in mail to you all.04:59
samPsagara: no need to specially prepare04:59
sagarasamP: thank you04:59
samPOK, then its almost time, lest finish05:00
samPthank you all...05:00
tpatilThank you.05:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"05:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Feb 28 05:00:39 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)05:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-02-28-04.00.html05:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-02-28-04.00.txt05:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-02-28-04.00.log.html05:00
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kota_storlet meeting?08:07
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kota_er, eranrom seems to be absent looking at the meeting etherpad08:08
kota_ping akihito08:09
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akihitoHi! sorry..  I'm late.08:13
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akihitoI'm looking <https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/storlets-pike-design-summit>. Thank you update summary.08:16
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kota_akihito: still here?08:47
kota_akihito: it looks like only we're here so I'd skip this meeting today08:47
akihitoOK. I see.08:48
kota_akihito: thx!08:48
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yanyanhu#startmeeting senlin13:00
yanyanhu#startmeeting senlin13:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Feb 28 13:00:26 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is yanyanhu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.13:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.13:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'senlin'13:00
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openstackyanyanhu: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.  Use #endmeeting first.13:00
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yanyanhuhi, elynn_ Qiming13:01
yanyanhuhi, XueFengLiu13:01
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ruijiesorry for late :)13:02
yanyanhuhi, ruijie13:02
ruijiehi yanyanhu13:02
yanyanhunot at all :)13:02
yanyanhuplease review the agenda and add items you want to discuss13:02
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ruijiewe are in pike now ?13:02
Qimingsame question, ;)13:03
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yanyanhi, sorry, just dropped...13:05
yanyannetwork is very unstable13:05
yanyanruijie, yes, we are in pike now13:05
Qimingcreated pike etherpad: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-pike-workitems13:06
yanyanthanks, Qiming13:07
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yanyanhuhi, sorry, dropped again...13:08
Qimingyanyanhu, seems your network connection is very bad13:09
yanyanhuyes... don't know why13:09
yanyanhuit is ok usually13:09
yanyanhuso where are we now?13:09
Qiminglooking at API section I guess13:09
Qimingthe 436288 is merged13:09
Qimingneed more patches on request object and api layer13:10
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yanyanhuand also test I guess13:10
yanyanhuok, next one13:11
yanyanhu"Feature Rich" Nova Server13:11
yanyanhuhi, elynn_13:11
yanyanhuso the first template works now?13:11
yanyanhusaw your mail :)13:11
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yanyanhucould you please paste the link to etherpad as well so we can easily access it13:12
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elynn_yes, a simple template works now.13:12
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elynn_I will do it.13:12
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Qimingnova server is never about a bare server resource itself13:12
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Qimingso I'm wondering if we should merge it back to nova server profile13:13
elynn_And still working on update operation13:13
Qimingleft some comments to both patches13:13
elynn_too early to merge it back13:13
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elynn_I saw them, will revise it.13:14
Qiminghow about we merge them in small patches?13:14
elynn_Will it break the compatibility13:14
Qiminganother option is one patch with a thousand lines of code, including unit tests and api/functional tests13:15
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Qimingit doesn't matter now because ocata is out13:15
elynn_do you like the later option ??13:15
Qimingwhat do you think?13:16
elynn_after it's stable, I will merge it back with small patches...13:16
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Qimingthat's fine, though13:16
QimingI was suggesting we work these two threads in parallel13:16
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Qimingif that is possible13:17
elynn_I guess that will break many things...13:17
Qimingsay, add port support13:17
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Qimingthen add other properties one by one13:17
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elynn_How about using a new version for this profile?13:18
elynn_like os.nova.server-2.0?13:18
Qimingthe implication for code in contrib is that we may throw it away13:18
Qimingyes, we will bump versions along the way13:18
elynn_could we do that?13:18
elynn_and also leave the code of version 1.0 I guess?13:19
Qimingthe version support is very limited13:19
yanyanhuif so, should we maintain os.nova.server-1.0 and os.nova.server-2.0 at the same time?13:19
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yanyanhuor we add deprecated warning for os.nova.server-1.0 profile once 2.0 is supported?13:20
elynn_I'm more afraid of compatibility issues.13:20
yanyanhume too...13:20
Qiminga valid concern13:20
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Qimingthat's the reason I suggested we do it in small patches13:20
Qimingwe cannot add 500 lines of new code and ensure back compatibility13:21
yanyanhuI think Qiming's suggestion is feasible13:21
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Qimingand ... once the POC is there, people usually hate to rewrite it again13:21
yanyanhuwe enhance the current nova server step by step13:21
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yanyanhuuntil we meet uncompatible issue13:22
yanyanhuthen we stop to figure it out13:22
yanyanhuand them keep going go13:22
Qimingright, we don't know how difficult it will be yet13:22
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elynn_that's right.13:23
yanyanhujust one more question, does this template meet the requirement raised by xinhui at the beginning?13:23
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Qimingone lesson we learned in the past is about deploying container clusters13:23
Qimingthat has been done separately on github13:23
elynn_This template is what xinhui found.13:23
Qimingbut code is kind of abandoned13:24
elynn_When xinhui gets back, I will check with her.13:24
Qimingalright, it's up to you, sir13:24
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yanyanhuelynn_, I see13:24
Qimingif bran has been involved into this, I'm optimistic on that, yanyanhu13:25
yanyanhuok :)13:25
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yanyanhuso lets move on if there is no more question on this item?13:26
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yanyanhuEngine Improvement13:26
yanyanhuhi, XueFengLiu13:26
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yanyanhuany new progress on cluster check13:26
XueFengLiuTwo patches has been merged13:26
XueFengLiuthe api for target delete13:27
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XueFengLiuAnd delete actions when delete cluster.13:27
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XueFengLiuThis is the a new one for cluster check actions13:28
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yanyanhuso action number will be reduced now13:28
yanyanhuso, please keep working on it, thanks a lot :)13:28
XueFengLiuNeed review13:29
XueFengLiuand modify13:29
yanyanhugreat, that is what we want13:29
yanyanhuwill help to review it13:29
yanyanhuok, next one13:30
yanyanhu- Add senlin to RDO13:30
yanyanhuXueFengLiu, still your turn :)13:30
yanyanhuQiming said you have filed bug for it?13:30
XueFengLiuI report a bug to rdo project.13:30
XueFengLiuAnd next13:31
XueFengLiuWe need write a spec for senlin13:31
yanyanhulike the spec in openstack?13:31
yanyanhuor it is a template for building package?13:31
XueFengLiuNo , for rpm13:31
XueFengLiuI generate a spec by python command automic13:32
yanyanhuso the maintainer should be responsible for defining how to build the rpm13:32
XueFengLiubut it seems need do some change13:32
Qimingbetter raise questions in the #rdo channel if helps needed13:32
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yanyanhuXueFengLiu, may thanks for starting this job13:33
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XueFengLiuMy pleasure13:33
yanyanhuok, lets move on?13:33
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yanyanhufunctional test for client13:33
yanyanhuit is ready for review now13:34
Qimingwrt to rpm spec, I'm not sure if the fully fleged version is created manually13:34
yanyanhubtw, we met some problems which failed our gate in last several days13:34
yanyanhuand that problem has been fixed13:35
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Qimingstill not sure if we should move post-config stuff to project-config13:36
yanyanhuso, I guess we still need some change on our test hooks?13:36
XueFengLiuQiMing, I tested to genereate by python setup.py bdist_rpm13:36
Qimingneed to keep an eye on it13:36
yanyanhuQiming, yes, looks sean suggested that in the mail13:36
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yanyanhubut there is still no concensus I guess13:36
Qimingyep, both approaches have drawbacks13:36
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XueFengLiuAnd the spec and rpm are generated. But not whole13:37
Qimingmoving things to gate will increase infra workload13:37
Qimingyes, XueFengLiu, I know that13:37
yanyanhuQiming, yes, that means any change could need revision in project-config13:37
QimingI mean, for the generation of a FULL version, there may be other tools we don't know13:38
yanyanhuthat will significantly increase the overhead of infra team13:38
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Qimingkeeping those settings in individual projects will be a pain for devstack tools13:38
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Qimingit may occasionally break this project or that13:39
yanyanhuyes, there is no perfect solution currently I guess...13:39
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yanyanhuanyway, about the functional test for client, once the gate job is ready, we can start working on the base test in senlinclient side13:39
Qimingyep, that is a great starting point13:40
yanyanhuXueFengLiu, will work together with you to setup the basic one13:40
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Qimingjust want to remind everyone, we are supposed to write functional tests for OSC plugin only13:40
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yanyanhuthat's what we need13:40
yanyanhuso lets move on?13:41
yanyanhuSupport CLUSTER_RECOVER action in LB policy13:41
yanyanhuhi, ruijie13:41
yanyanhuyour turn :)13:41
ruijieyes yanyanhu13:41
ruijieI proposed 1st patch today13:42
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yanyanhuthis one13:42
ruijieyes, basicly will add logic to post_op()13:42
ruijieto handle the data passed from do_recover(...)13:42
yanyanhuthis is important if we want lb policy works with cluster recovery action13:42
Qimingmaybe we will need some logic for CLUSTER_CHECK as well?13:43
yanyanhuruijie, also we may need to consider the situation that the IP doesn't change13:43
yanyanhuafter node is recovered13:43
yanyanhuQiming, yes13:43
yanyanhugood idea13:43
ruijieyanyanhu, you mean the server ip will changed during running?13:44
yanyanhubut one question is we are not sure whether lbaas support to manually set the health status of a member13:44
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yanyanhuruijie, I mean if the IP of node doesn't change during recovery progress, maybe we don't need to perform lb member update operation13:44
ruijieyes, I noticed the cluster_recover is under revising to sync the status of server13:45
ruijiewill add logic to cluster_recover() too13:45
yanyanhuruijie, thanks :)13:45
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Qimingif a server is recreated, the IP may get changed13:45
ruijieyes, if the server is just soft-reboot, will not remove it from lb13:46
yanyanhuQiming, yes, that is likely to happen13:46
Qimingso no matter recovery is a success or not, we need to check it13:46
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yanyanhusure, the check is necessary13:46
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ruijieI am thinking we still use "creation"/"deletion" to handle the data13:47
yanyanhuruijie, you mean?13:47
ruijiecreation data contains the node is that need to be added to lb, and deletion means need to be removed13:48
ruijiein the action layer we check that13:48
Qimingif they are not sufficient13:48
Qimingfeel free to dump the related node info into the 'outputs' field of the action13:48
ruijieand then pass it to post_op13:48
ruijieokay Qiming, will propose another tomorrow13:49
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yanyanhuruijie, great, and please ping me if you need any help on lb policy13:49
ruijiesure yanyanhu:)13:49
QimingI believe you have a good understanding about how policy works13:49
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yanyanhuso lets all in the list I think13:50
yanyanhuand we have some items in Wishlist or with Low Priority13:50
yanyanhubut I guess no progress on them in this week13:51
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yanyanhuthat's all, sorry misclicked...13:51
yanyanhuany more items in progress?13:51
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yanyanhuok, open discussion now13:51
yanyanhu#topic Open discussions13:52
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussions (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:52
yanyanhuany more topics from you guys?13:52
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yanyanhuQiming, xinhui is still in travel?13:52
Qimingnot sure13:52
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Qimingone question ...13:52
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yanyanhulooking forward to the news about ptg from her :)13:52
Qiminganyone is interested in trying deploy a kubernetes cluster using senlin?13:53
ruijieI am working on deploy a cloud foundry cluster ..13:53
Qimingwow ...13:53
ruijieno very familiar with k8s13:53
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Qimingit would be great to learn any experiences / lessons from you13:54
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ruijievery happy to share it after I finish it :)13:55
yanyanhuruijie, thanks :)13:55
XueFengLiugood boy:)13:55
Qimingdon't hesitate if there are things we can help from senlin side13:55
ruijielol ..13:55
ruijiethe role of node will be a big problem ..13:56
ruijiesince the recover and scaling are both need to based on that13:56
Qimingshould we extend 'role' to be a list?13:57
Qimingmany other apis should be made role aware, I guess13:57
yanyanhuenhancing role support is critical for many cases I believe13:57
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yanyanhuso may need more attention on it13:57
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yanyanhuso lets think more about it :)13:58
yanyanhuok, that's all for today I guess13:58
yanyanhuthanks all you guys for joining, have a good night :)13:59
XueFengLiuHi,YanYan. About receiver will ask you tomorrow13:59
yanyanhuXueFengLiu, sure13:59
ruijiehave a good night13:59
yanyanhuplease ping me13:59
XueFengLiugood night13:59
yanyanhugoog night14:00
yanyanhugood night :)14:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"14:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Feb 28 14:00:11 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)14:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2017/senlin.2017-02-28-13.00.html14:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2017/senlin.2017-02-28-13.00.txt14:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2017/senlin.2017-02-28-13.00.log.html14:00
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dasmis anybody here?14:00
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kevinbentonhi everyone14:00
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dasmphew :)14:00
kevinbenton#startmeeting networking14:00
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openstackMeeting started Tue Feb 28 14:00:57 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is kevinbenton. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)"14:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'networking'14:01
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kevinbenton#topic announcments14:01
*** openstack changes topic to "announcments (Meeting topic: networking)"14:01
kevinbentonI sent out an email last night with a big summary of things that were covered at the PTG14:02
kevinbenton#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-February/113032.html14:02
ihrachysthat's huge, wow.14:02
kevinbentonTake some time to look over it14:02
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dasmkevinbenton: thanks for doing that14:03
kevinbentonIf there were any topics I completely forgot, please reply to that email with a brief summary14:03
kevinbentonbut if there is anything you want to expand on or have a discussion about, please start a new email thread with a different subject14:03
ajolate o/14:03
kevinbentonso it doesn't become the Neutron development megathread14:03
john-davidgekevinbenton: Thanks, this is great14:03
kevinbentonThis announcement is from the last meeting, but a quick reminder that the Pike spec repository is open14:04
kevinbentonso if you had any specs for Ocata, retarget them to Pike14:05
kevinbentonand propose new specs under that folder14:05
kevinbentonIf you had any features that were targeting Ocata, please review the postmortem patch from armax14:06
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kevinbenton#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/425990/14:06
kevinbentonThis applies to all stadium projects IIRC14:06
kevinbentonDoes anyone have any questions about the above or have any other announcements to make?14:07
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john-davidgekevinbenton: Do you intend to keep the postmortems going for future releases? Personally I think they're great.14:07
kevinbentonjohn-davidge: yeah, i'll try to keep that tradition up14:08
kevinbentonjohn-davidge: i may conscript armax to help14:08
john-davidgekevinbenton: :)14:08
kevinbenton#topic Bugs14:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking)"14:09
kevinbentoni see from the wiki electrocucaracha was bug deputy last14:09
kevinbentonbut he's not online14:09
kevinbentondoes anyone have any bugs that need discussion with the wider team?14:10
ihrachysI would like to remind folks that if you cannot join, you should send a report as per https://docs.openstack.org/developer/neutron/policies/bugs.html#neutron-bug-deputy14:10
ihrachysI mean, if you are a bug deputy :)14:10
ihrachysdo we have deputies for next weeks?14:11
kevinbentonspeaking of which, does anyone want to volunteer to be bug deputy this week?14:11
kevinbentoni can do it14:12
kevinbenton#info kevinbenton for bug deputy week of feb 28th14:13
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ihrachysthanks kevinbenton14:14
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kevinbentonany volunteers now for next week?14:14
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dasanindkevinbenton: I can do next week14:14
kevinbentondasanind: thanks14:14
kevinbenton#info dasanind for bug deputy week of mar 6th14:15
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kevinbenton#topic gate issues14:16
*** openstack changes topic to "gate issues (Meeting topic: networking)"14:16
kevinbentonihrachys: quick update since we have a separate meeting, any big blockers we need to be aware of?14:16
ihrachyswe had breakages due to devstack-gate local.conf logic on Fri but those are contained for the most part in neutron repo14:17
ihrachysit also broke some stadium repos like fwaas (fix should be in for master, maybe backport needed)14:17
ihrachysI advise stadium project owners to check their gates and fix/reach out to me about details14:17
ihrachysit also seems we have fragile gate hook14:18
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ihrachysthere is ongoing work on that matter in scope of https://review.openstack.org/43868214:18
ihrachysthat may also need to be backported later14:18
ihrachysapart from that, business as usual (oom-killers, libvirtd crashing, dragons burning villages)14:19
ihrachysthat's all I have, we'll elaborate in CI meeting in 2h14:19
kevinbentonihrachys: fragile in the sense that it randomly fails, or we are just a patch away from broken?14:19
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ihrachyskevinbenton: as in 'gonna be broken in next weeks if we don't adopt to the right path'14:19
kevinbentonihrachys: ack14:19
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kevinbenton#topic neutron-lib14:20
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kevinbentonboden: any news?14:20
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kevinbenton#info neutron-lib is complete :)14:21
bodenkevinbenton: sorry I stepped away for a min14:21
ihrachyshuh, WAT. is it 2025 already?14:21
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kevinbentonboden: no prob14:22
kevinbentonboden: wanna give us a quick neutron-lib update?14:22
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bodenas listed on the neutron meeting wiki; we have 2 lib impact changes in progress… they’ve been out for awhile so IMO they are about ready to merge14:22
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bodenas we discussed at the PTG and I summerized in ML yesterday, we are proposing a single set of hacking checks for neutron-lib consumers.. just a heads up (again) as this impacts a number of projects14:23
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bodenthere are also a number of patches ready for review in neutron-lib… if you get time please take a peek :)14:24
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kevinbentonboden: are these the impact changes? https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+message:%22NeutronLibImpact%2214:24
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ihrachysI think we should speed up landing for neutron context patch. it's the best timing for such a huge change.14:25
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ihrachysarmax mentioned that this should happen after subprojects release ocata, I think sfc was the last one sched for this Wed14:25
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bodenkevinbenton: yes but that list is a bit messy a cleaner picture might be: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+message:%22NeutronLibImpact%22+project:openstack/neutron14:26
bodenihrachys: agree… the same goes for moving to the neutron-lib callbacks14:26
ihrachysI also see a lot of helpers to be killed with https://review.openstack.org/#/c/433034/ was it ever announced?14:26
ihrachysoh sorry, those helpers were already marked with deprecations14:27
bodenihrachys: I didn’t see an announce, but perhaps I missed it… I’ll follow up with garyk on that one14:27
kevinbenton#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/388157/14:27
kevinbentoncontext spinoff patch14:27
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mlavalleso we want this merged soon, right?14:28
kevinbenton#info any importers of neutron.context will break after merge of https://review.openstack.org/#/c/388157/ . please import from neutron-lib14:28
kevinbentonmlavalle: yep14:28
kevinbentonmlavalle: deal with the pain now14:29
ihrachysmlavalle: I would hope so. it's start of the cycle, better soon than late14:29
mlavalleAgree with both14:29
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bodenalso FYI: I sent a note to ML yesterday, but there was some discussion on forbidding provider net extended attrs update (PUT) at the API layer in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/421961/   however it doesn’t appear folks think this is the right approach so I’m guessing it won’t end up merging14:31
dasmfyi. neutron-lib 1.2.0 got released recently and soon should land in requirements. so from now on, all the latest features provided by boden can be used14:31
bodenwell; not just my features :)14:31
dasmok, so fancy features from boden and couple others, not so fancy ;)14:31
ihrachyskevinbenton was going to look at allowing updates for the field14:31
ihrachysthat's why we put -2 for now14:31
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kevinbentonihrachys: yeah, with our internal segments API now, it may be much simpler to allow this14:32
kevinbentonihrachys: but I haven't had a chance to look into it yet14:32
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ihrachysspeaking of stadium projects, I just spotted dynamic-routing has broken periodic job in grafana14:33
ihrachysthat's due to models moved in Ocata, and the fix will be https://review.openstack.org/#/c/438739/14:33
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ihrachysplease approve so that we can land next breaking changes "safely"14:34
ihrachysotherwise they will need to squash and that's not cool14:34
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ihrachysoh also midonet and ovn broken14:35
ihrachysas per the dashboard at least. though I don't see any ovn failure in gerrit14:35
russellbwhen did the breaking change land?14:35
russellbnetworking-ovn has merged several changes in the last 12 hours or so14:36
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ihrachysrussellb: then you are good and it was one off14:36
dasmbtw. are we still in neutron-lib section? shouldn't we change that?14:36
ihrachysI think the impactful is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/436312/14:36
russellbihrachys: ok thanks for looking out14:36
ihrachysmidonet is definitely borked by it, and there is no fix yet14:36
kevinbentondasm: we divered a bit14:37
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kevinbentonboden: any other neutron-lib related things?14:37
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bodenkevinbenton: I think that’s enough for now14:37
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kevinbenton#topic OSC14:38
*** openstack changes topic to "OSC (Meeting topic: networking)"14:38
kevinbentonany updates on the OSC transition?14:38
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amotokino update to report.14:39
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kevinbenton#topic docs14:39
*** openstack changes topic to "docs (Meeting topic: networking)"14:39
kevinbentonjohn-davidge: anything?14:39
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john-davidgeSo kevinbenton mentioned in in the PTG summary email, but I'd like to highlight the point about DocImpact14:40
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john-davidgeWhen reviewing patches with a DocImpact tag, please make sure the commit message includes a summary of the doc change needed, whether its in the neutron tree or openstack-manuals14:41
john-davidgeThat helps a lot with triaging the resulting bugs14:41
john-davidgeAlso, we have some chnages planned for the Networking Guide over the Pike cycle: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/networking-guide-improvements14:41
john-davidgeAnybody who's interested in working in the guide is most welcome :)14:42
john-davidgeThat's it14:42
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kevinbentonjohn-davidge: thanks14:42
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kevinbentonsome on demand topics on here from the last meeting14:42
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kevinbenton#topic Disable security group filter refresh on DHCP port changes14:43
*** openstack changes topic to "Disable security group filter refresh on DHCP port changes (Meeting topic: networking)"14:43
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kevinbentoni don't think mdorman is around14:43
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kevinbentonhe wanted to discuss https://review.openstack.org/#/c/416380/14:43
kevinbentonI think that will be superceded by https://review.openstack.org/#/c/432506/ if we go that route14:44
kevinbenton#topic Logging API for security groups14:45
*** openstack changes topic to "Logging API for security groups (Meeting topic: networking)"14:45
kevinbentonI think this was discussed at the PTG14:45
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kevinbentonso we probably don't need to discuss it again here14:45
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hoangcx+1. Thanks kevin14:45
kevinbenton#topic Open Discussion14:46
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking)"14:46
kevinbentonanyone have anything else to discuss?14:46
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mlavallekevinbenton: quick update to your PTG summary of last night. For moving floating ips to central node in DVR, swami already filed a RFE: https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/166787714:46
openstackLaunchpad bug 1667877 in neutron "[RFE] DVR support for Configuring Floatingips in Network Node or in the Compute Node based on Config option." [Undecided,New] - Assigned to Miguel Lavalle (minsel)14:46
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dasmone thing from me: all stadium projects are now following cycle with milestones. everything will be synced now: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/437699/14:47
mlavalleand I assigned it to me :-)14:47
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ihrachysdasm: oh that's nice, less headache for release team.14:48
kevinbentonmlavalle: thanks, do you want to reply to that email with just a pointer to the RFE?14:48
mlavallekevinbenton: will do14:48
dasmihrachys: i agree14:48
electrocucarachasorry for being late, regarding the bugs of last week most of the criticals were reported by you kevinbenton , there is a couple of invalid and other features14:48
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kevinbentonelectrocucaracha: ok, thanks14:49
electrocucarachathere is only one that I would like to bring to discussion https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/166750014:49
openstackLaunchpad bug 1667500 in neutron "Openstack add 'deafult' security group to a VM when attaching new interface to new network even the VM have customized secgroup" [Undecided,New]14:49
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kevinbentondasm: cool. hopefully this works smoothly :)14:49
electrocucarachabut that discussion can happen offline14:49
kevinbentonelectrocucaracha: ack. i'll take a look14:50
ihrachyselectrocucaracha: sounds like behaviour as designed14:51
ihrachyssec groups are per port14:51
kevinbentonihrachys, electrocucaracha: yeah, i think it would need to be a feature change on the nova side if they wanted this14:51
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kevinbentonto alter the port create request nova is making14:51
amotokitend to agree with ihar, but there may be a room to improve nova interaction14:51
electrocucarachaihrachys: agree14:51
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dasmamotoki: "improve nova integration" as always ;)14:52
kevinbentonelectrocucaracha: i would mark nova as an affected project because I don't think there is anything we can do on the neutron side14:52
ihrachysit's always nova's fault14:52
amotokiperhaps nova side instead of nova interaction14:52
ihrachys+, close neutron side as Won't Fix and allow nova folks to triage14:52
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kevinbentonfrom neutron's perspective it's just a normal port create and we can't change that behavior14:52
electrocucarachabut there is a place in neutron where we ensure the existence of the default security group rule14:53
kevinbentonelectrocucaracha: right, but that's different from which security group is assigned to the port14:53
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kevinbentonelectrocucaracha: if they want a different group assigned to the port, that needs to be in the port create body14:53
ihrachysI just closed it from neutron side and opened for nova14:54
electrocucarachathanks ihrachys14:54
amotokinova maintains security groups associated with a VM itself, so nova can take care of the default secgroup when creating a new port from nova.14:54
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kevinbentonamotoki: right14:54
kevinbentonamotoki: seems like a reasonable feature request for them14:54
kevinbentonanything else?14:54
amotokikevinbenton: agree14:54
kevinbentonok, thanks everyone!14:55
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"14:55
openstackMeeting ended Tue Feb 28 14:55:43 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)14:55
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2017/networking.2017-02-28-14.00.html14:55
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2017/networking.2017-02-28-14.00.txt14:55
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2017/networking.2017-02-28-14.00.log.html14:55
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mlavallehave a nice rest of your days!14:57
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ihrachys#startmeeting neutron_ci16:00
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openstackMeeting started Tue Feb 28 16:00:26 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ihrachys. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.16:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)"16:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_ci'16:00
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ihrachysI think kevinbenton and jlibosva won't join today for different reasons but nevertheless it's worth running through outstanding actions16:01
ihrachys#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NeutronCI Agenda16:01
ihrachys#topic Action items from previous meeting16:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Action items from previous meeting (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)"16:02
ihrachys"ihrachys to look at e-r bot for openstack-neutron channel"16:02
ihrachysthis landed: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/433828/16:02
ihrachyshas anyone seen the bot reporting anything in the channel since then? :)16:02
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ihrachysdoesn't seem like it did a single time16:03
ihrachysgotta give it some time and see if it's some issue in configuration, or just no positive hits16:03
ihrachys#action ihrachys to monitor e-r irc bot reporting in the channel16:03
ihrachys"manjeets to polish the dashboard script and propose it for neutron/tools/"16:04
ihrachysmanjeets: I know you proposed the patch for neutron tree but armax asked to move it to another place16:04
ihrachyshas it happened so far?16:04
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ihrachys(the neutron patch was https://review.openstack.org/#/c/433893/)16:05
manjeetsi'll move it today was busy with other stuff yesterday16:05
ihrachysok cool, thanks for working on it16:05
ihrachys#action manjeets to repropose the CI dashboard script for reviewday16:05
ihrachysnext item was "jlibosva to try reducing parallelization for scenario tests"16:05
ihrachysthis landed: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/434866/16:06
ihrachysI believe scenario job was still not particularly stable due to qos tests so we also landed https://review.openstack.org/#/c/437011/ that temporarily disables the test that measures bandwidth16:07
ihrachysajo was going to rework the test once more16:07
ihrachysat this point the failure rate for the job is: ovs ~ 40% and linuxbridge ~ 100%16:08
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ihrachysseems like lb trunk test fails consistently due to missing connectivity: http://logs.openstack.org/69/438669/1/check/gate-tempest-dsvm-neutron-scenario-linuxbridge-ubuntu-xenial-nv/a16519c/testr_results.html.gz16:09
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ihrachyscould be a legit failure, will need to follow up with armax on the matter16:09
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ihrachys#action ihrachys to follow up with armax on why trunk connectivity test fails for lb scenario job16:09
ihrachysok next was "ihrachys to look at getting more info from kernel about ram-locked memory segments"16:09
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ihrachysthere are a bunch of patches on review16:10
ihrachysone is enabling the needed logging in peakmem_tracker service: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/434470/ (needs some small rework)16:10
ihrachysbtw we enabled peakmem_tracker service in all gates yesterday, to help with memory consumption / oom-killer debugging: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/434511/16:10
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ihrachyssince the first patch renames peakmem_tracker, this patch also enables the service with the new name: https://review.openstack.org/43447416:11
dasmihrachys: according to johndperkins, kibana isn't showing oom-killer issues since Feb 2316:11
ihrachysI hope that will give us an answer if any process blocks huge chunks of memory from swapping16:11
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ihrachysdasm: oh nice. do we still see libvirtd crashes?16:12
dasmi don't know. i didn't look into that16:12
ihrachysthere is an etherpad tracking oom-killer from infra side: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/OOM_Taskforce16:13
clarkbyes I think libvirt crashes are still happening16:13
dasmalthough, lack of oom-killer problems could be connected to lesser usage of infra, during ptg.16:13
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clarkbdims had one pulled up yesterday16:14
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* electrocucaracha wonders if <beslemon> discovered something16:14
ihrachysclarkb: could it be indeed correlated with the lower utilization of the cloud as dasm suggests?16:15
dimsclarkb : i was looking through libvirt logs for 2nd and 3rd items in the rechecks list - http://status.openstack.org/elastic-recheck/ - not much luck16:15
clarkbihrachys: maybe? the other angle people were looking at was OOMs seem to happen more often on Rax which is Xen based os potentially related to that16:15
ihrachysclarkb: I assume that would require some close work with the owners of the cloud. do we have those relationships?16:16
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clarkbihrachys: for rackspace johnthetubaguy is probably a good contact particularly for compute related things?16:16
electrocucarachaclarkb: the other thing that beslemon mentioned me was the recent update of their centos images16:16
ihrachyselectrocucaracha: who is beslemon, I probably miss some context.16:17
clarkbinfra runs its own images too that should update daily16:17
electrocucarachaihrachys: she is racker (perf engineer of the RPC)16:17
electrocucarachaihrachys: she was helping us(me, dasm, johndperkins)  last week to discover something16:18
ihrachysok. if she works on any of that, it could make sense for her to join the meeting and update on her findings.16:18
electrocucarachaihrachys: well, she only has a limited time for that assignment but I'm going to tell her to include her findings16:19
ihrachysin related news, several projects notice instability in their scenario jobs because of broken (or disabled) nested virtualization in some clouds. I heard that from octavia.16:19
ihrachysneutron also experienced some slowdown and timeouts for some jobs16:20
ihrachysdumping cpu flags of the allocated nodes could give some clue: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/433949/16:20
ihrachyselectrocucaracha: ack. at least an email or smth, otherwise we work in isolation and don't benefit from multiple eyes looking at the same thing from the same angle.16:20
electrocucarachaihrachys: +116:21
ihrachysok these were all action items from the previous meeting, moving on16:21
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ihrachys#topic PTG update16:21
*** openstack changes topic to "PTG update (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)"16:21
ihrachyssome CI matters were covered during the PTG the prev week16:22
ihrachyssome points were captured in the etherpad: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/neutron-ptg-pike-final line 15-3816:22
ihrachyssome things were also captured by kevinbenton in his report email: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-February/113032.html16:23
ihrachyswe will need to follow up on those, so that at least tasks from our CI scope don't slip thru cracks16:23
ihrachysI will do that this week, and we will run through the items next week16:23
ihrachys#action ihrachys to follow up on PTG working items related to CI and present next week16:24
ihrachystl;dr there is a lot of specific work items on gate stability and also reshaping gate (removing jobs, adding new ...)16:24
ihrachysany specific questions about PTG?16:25
ihrachys(we will discuss it in detail next week, but if you have anything time sensitive)16:25
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ihrachysok moving on16:26
ihrachys#topic Known gate issues16:26
*** openstack changes topic to "Known gate issues (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)"16:26
ihrachys#link https://goo.gl/8vigPl Open bugs16:26
ihrachys#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1627106 ovsdb native timeouts16:27
openstackLaunchpad bug 1627106 in neutron "TimeoutException while executing tests adding bridge using OVSDB native" [Critical,Triaged] - Assigned to Miguel Angel Ajo (mangelajo)16:27
ihrachysthis did not get much progress per se16:27
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ihrachysbut there are some developments that should help us to isolate some of its impact16:27
ihrachysspecifically, otherwiseguy is working on splitting the ovsdb code into a separate project: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/438080/16:27
ihrachysat which point some of unstable tests that cover the code will move into this new repo16:28
ihrachyswhich will offload some of the impact from neutron tree into the new tree16:28
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ihrachysand hopefully will reduce impact on integrated gate.16:28
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ihrachyssome may say it's just a shift of responsibility. it indeed is.16:28
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ihrachysotherwiseguy also had plans to work on a native eventlet state machine for the library once we get initial integration of it with neutron.16:29
ihrachyshe is hopeful replacing existing solution that is based on native threads with something more integrated with eventlet may squash some bugs that we experience.16:29
ihrachysonly time will tell.16:30
ihrachysfor other bugs in the list, I gotta walk thru them and see if they need some love16:30
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ihrachys#action ihrachys to walk thru list of open gate failure bugs and give them love16:30
ihrachysany other known gate failure that would benefit from the discussion here?16:31
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ihrachysok let's move on16:32
ihrachys#topic Gate hook rework16:32
*** openstack changes topic to "Gate hook rework (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)"16:32
ihrachyssome of you may have noticed the gate breakage that hit us on Friday due to the change in devstack-gate in regards to local.conf handling16:33
ihrachysI think the breaking change was https://review.openstack.org/#/c/430857/16:33
ihrachysthis was fixed with https://review.openstack.org/#/q/Ibe640a584add3acc89520a2bbb25b6f4c5818e1b,n,z16:33
ihrachysthough Sean Dague then raised a point that the way we use devstack-gate in our gate hook is not sustainable and may break in the future16:34
ihrachysthere is a WIP patch to fix that here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/438682/16:34
ihrachyswe will need to backport it too16:34
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ihrachysI suspect that other repos that were affected by the initial d-g change and patched that to pass gate may also need to follow up with a better fix16:35
ihrachysI believe armax was going to at least assess the impact on other stadium repos16:35
ihrachys#action armax to assess impact of d-g change on stadium gate hooks16:35
ihrachysI will shape the Sean's patch today to make it ready to merge16:35
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ihrachys#action ihrachys to prepare https://review.openstack.org/#/c/438682/ for merge, then backport16:36
ihrachysstadium projects are advised to take another look at their gate setup16:36
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ihrachysgo ask me or sdague about details if you are lost16:37
ihrachys#topic lib/neutron for devstack-gate16:37
*** openstack changes topic to "lib/neutron for devstack-gate (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)"16:37
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ihrachysOne final thing, a heads-up that several folks work on switching gate to lib/neutron (from lib/neutron-legacy)16:37
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ihrachysthe result can be seen in https://review.openstack.org/436798 and the list of dependent patches16:38
ihrachysonce the patches are in better shape and in, we may need to do some more validation work with gates for other projects to make sure it won't break anything16:38
ihrachys#topic Open Discussion16:39
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)"16:39
ihrachysanything anyone?16:39
ihrachysI will merely note that the patch that disables ovs compilation for functional job is in the gate: https://review.openstack.org/43704116:39
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ihrachyselectrocucaracha: any updates on memory consumption tracking work you looked at a while ago?16:40
ihrachysok I believe we lost him :)16:42
ihrachysok folks thanks for joining and bearing with me16:42
ihrachysI hope that next meetings will be more active and more populated :)16:43
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"16:43
openstackMeeting ended Tue Feb 28 16:43:11 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)16:43
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ci/2017/neutron_ci.2017-02-28-16.00.html16:43
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ci/2017/neutron_ci.2017-02-28-16.00.txt16:43
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ci/2017/neutron_ci.2017-02-28-16.00.log.html16:43
dasmihrachys: it looks pretty much like single-man meeting :)16:43
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ihrachysdasm: which sucks16:43
ihrachysdasm: one may argue it shows the interest in the topic overall16:43
ihrachysor I do something wrong16:43
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ihrachysif someone knows what, please tell me in private :)16:44
ihrachysor in public, public shame also works16:44
dasmpublic one works even better, i think ;)16:45
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igordcard#startmeeting network_common_flow_classifier17:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Feb 28 17:00:09 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is igordcard. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: network_common_flow_classifier)"17:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'network_common_flow_classifier'17:00
igordcardhi davidsha, all17:00
igordcardlet's wait 2 minutes for people17:00
reedipthough I am a bit sleepy ...17:02
igordcardhi reedip17:02
reediphi igordcard17:02
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reediphi davidsha17:02
davidshaHey reedip!17:03
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igordcardalright, let's kick this off!17:03
igordcard#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/CommonFlowClassifier#Discussion_Topic_28_February_201717:03
igordcard#topic Post-PTG summary17:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Post-PTG summary (Meeting topic: network_common_flow_classifier)"17:03
igordcardmore people became interested in this effort during the PTG17:04
igordcardthe spec got more reviews since then17:04
igordcard#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/33399317:04
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igordcardI'm correcting it and will submit a new patchset today or tomorrow17:05
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igordcardthere seemed to be good agreement on the current approach17:05
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reedipI would be pushing it in the TaaS meeting , hopefully I can get some more people from Tap-as-a-Service to review this17:05
igordcardreedip: great!17:06
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igordcardalso, there was some discussion regarding the grouping of classifications17:06
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igordcardwe didn't reach an agreement on how and in what way, but we seemed to agree that some grouping should be provided (from day one of the first CCF release)17:07
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igordcardsome kind of validation of classificatons (when applied to consuming services) needs to occur, and the framework might even do part of it itself - more discussion needs to happen around this subject as well17:08
reedipyeah , as well as the proposal on how to group them ( AND / OR )17:08
igordcardreedip: exactly17:08
igordcardthere was good agreement that there is no need allow classification updates17:09
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igordcardand we seemed to be converging to a workflow where classifications shouldn't be deleted if they are being used - which also prevents duplication of information in the database, as a simple mapping between classifications and the consuming project's own resources, is enough17:09
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igordcardam I missing something important?17:10
reedipCLI side ??17:10
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igordcardreedip: in regards to the validation of classifications?17:11
reedipI mean the CLI based implementation was also discussed  and IIRC it was decided that CLI side implementation would be project dependent17:11
reedipigordcard : umm, yup17:11
davidshareedip: You mean if a project supports a particular classification?17:11
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igordcardreedip: yes/no... so each project will have to make their own CLI changes to allow users to pass on classifications UUIDs17:12
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igordcardreedip: but still the CCF needs its own CLI to define the classifications17:12
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reedipdavidsha ,igordcard : the problem / issue is when we use a common classifier with a project17:15
reedipwhose CLI needs a specific value ( which is a positional argument )17:15
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reedipbut by linking the common classifier , the CLI can retrieve this information from the classified17:15
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reedipdavidsha, igordcard : something like Network attribute for Subnets17:16
igordcardreedip: right, that was the discussion on how/whether CLI should itself fetch the classification and validate it before passing it to the own project17:16
reedipwe cannot create a subnet without a network17:16
reedipigordcard : there is a side-effect of common classifier with OpenstackClient 's implementation17:17
reedipTL;DR , we need to modify the CLIs so that attributes which can be considered in a common classifier need to be made optional arguments in CLI17:18
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reedipin case they are NECESSARY in the current iteration17:18
igordcardreedip: wait, does this also relate to the discussion where projects might already have their own "classifier APIs", and so the use of the CCF is optional or possible conflicting?17:19
reedipigordcard : umm, I didnt consider it yet. This discussion was in terms of CLI implementation and modification.17:20
reedipigordcard ; What I am saying is changes in the OSC project17:21
reedipigordcard; your changes may be more in neutron-xyz projects17:21
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igordcardreedip: changes in the OSC project beyond the plain support of classifications UUIDs in neutron-xyz's resources?17:21
igordcardreedip: in other words, networking-sfc's port-create CLI command allows --flow-classifier UUID to be passed...17:22
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igordcardreedip: would there be any change to that specific command after the CCF?17:23
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igordcard(this is an example where a project already has a way to pass in classificatin UUIDs / other projects may not have this yet)17:23
igordcardhi xgerman17:23
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reedipxgerman : Hi ( again )17:23
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davidshaxgerman: Hey17:25
reedipigordcard : not for Networking-sfc project maybe . Because the flow-classifier is not a common classifier/attribute across different APIs ( is it ?)17:25
igordcardreedip: visual clarification: "port-create --flow-classifier <UUID> my-port-chain"17:25
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igordcardreedip: alright, so is it fair to say that OSC will require the following changes? :17:27
igordcard- OSC classification CRUD commands17:28
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igordcard- OSC classification consumption commands (in networking-sfc's example fashion above) per neutron-xyz/networking-abc/others project17:28
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davidshaWill we move on?17:30
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igordcardit's only been 2 minutes, he might still be typing17:30
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reedipigordcard : yes you are correct. But I think we need to discuss this once with dtroyer and the osc team :)17:30
davidshakk, sorry!17:30
reedipdavidsha : I am also discussing other bugs  in the OSC team :D17:31
reedipsorry davidsha : took some time !17:31
igordcardreedip: thanks, I will note that17:31
igordcardanything else in terms of PTG summary?17:31
reedipnone that I recall17:31
igordcardmoving on...17:32
igordcard#topic PoC status17:32
*** openstack changes topic to "PoC status (Meeting topic: network_common_flow_classifier)"17:32
davidshareedip: no problem!17:32
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* igordcard hands over the mic to davidsha 17:32
davidshaSo I have the resources made, the service plugin working, and it storing the classifications in a database. I'm working on the rpc server/client so that the classifications can be retrieved from the neutron classifier project.17:33
igordcarddavidsha: great17:34
davidshaOnce I get the RPC stuff working I'll realign the PoC to match the updates that are being added to the spec.17:34
reedip+1 :)17:34
igordcardmoving on...17:35
igordcard#topic Next steps for the CCF17:35
*** openstack changes topic to "Next steps for the CCF (Meeting topic: network_common_flow_classifier)"17:35
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igordcard#action igordcard to address comments in spec17:36
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igordcardshould we contact the OSC team at this point?17:36
davidshaigordcard: Maybe wait until we can show them the PoC.17:37
igordcardyeah.. if it pops up in a conversation great, otherwise let's get this a bit more refined, both spec and code, for now17:38
igordcard#action davidsha to submit an initial PoC17:39
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igordcardother next steps seem to be: clarifying the CLI, including if validation should be done there (there are 4 possibilities, which I'll document in the spec); and reach consensus on the grouping of classifications17:40
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igordcardwhich also has 3 or 4 possibilities17:41
igordcardany other next steps?17:41
igordcardalright, moving on...17:43
igordcard#topic Open discussion17:43
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: network_common_flow_classifier)"17:43
reedipigordcard : Lets discuss it with them after the PoC as mentioned by davidsha17:43
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igordcardalright reedip17:43
igordcardanything else we need to discuss?17:43
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reedipnone from my end17:44
davidshaNothing from me.17:45
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igordcardI will likely not be able to attend/chair the (expected) meeting in 2 weeks17:45
igordcardif there aren't critical items to discuss, I will cancel it closer to the date17:46
igordcardotherwise a solution will be found!17:46
igordcardokay folks, this is all17:46
davidshakk, We'll see anyways on the spec I can chair if people are about.17:46
igordcardthank you for joining davidsha, reedip, xgerman17:46
igordcarddavidsha: yep17:47
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reedipgreat to meet again u guys17:47
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:47
openstackMeeting ended Tue Feb 28 17:47:25 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:47
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/network_common_flow_classifier/2017/network_common_flow_classifier.2017-02-28-17.00.html17:47
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/network_common_flow_classifier/2017/network_common_flow_classifier.2017-02-28-17.00.txt17:47
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/network_common_flow_classifier/2017/network_common_flow_classifier.2017-02-28-17.00.log.html17:47
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lbragstad#startmeeting keystone18:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Feb 28 18:00:37 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is lbragstad. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:00
lbragstadping agrebennikov, amakarov, annakoppad, antwash, ayoung, bknudson, breton, browne, chrisplo, cmurphy, davechen, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, edtubill, gagehugo, henrynash, hrybacki, jamielennox, jaugustine, jgrassler, knikolla, lamt, lbragstad, kbaikov, ktychkova, morgan, nishaYadav, nkinder, notmorgan, portdirect raildo, ravelar, rderose, rodrigods, roxanaghe, samueldmq, SamYaple, shaleh, spilla, srwilkers,18:00
lbragstad StefanPaetowJisc, stevemar, topol, shardy, ricolin18:00
* notmorgan hides18:00
lbragstadagenda #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting18:00
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lbragstadhopefully everyone had a productive week18:02
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lbragstadravelar antwash o/18:02
ravelarlbragstad o/18:02
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lbragstadalright - let's get started18:03
lbragstad#topic PTG Topics18:03
*** openstack changes topic to "PTG Topics (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:03
lbragstad#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/pike-ptg-keystone-ocata-carry-over18:03
lbragstad#topic PTG Topics18:03
*** openstack changes topic to "PTG Topics (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:03
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lbragstad#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/pike-ptg-keystone-ocata-carry-over18:03
* lbragstad notes that copy paste fails with meeting bot18:03
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lbragstadwe planned on having a session at the PTG dedicated to addressing carry over topics from ocata18:04
lbragstadas well as backlogged specs18:04
lbragstadbut we came to the conclusion that is something we can do in meeting versus valuable hacking time person18:04
lbragstadso i figured we'd try and knock a few of them out today, while the discussions from the PTG are still fresh18:05
lbragstad#topic PTG Topics: Project and domain tags18:05
*** openstack changes topic to "PTG Topics: Project and domain tags (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:05
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lbragstadi wasn't there for this particular topic, but it sounds like someone had an action item to rework a spec?18:05
gagehugolbragstad https://review.openstack.org/#/c/431785/18:06
notmorganproject and domian tags?18:06
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notmorganoh that18:06
lbragstadnotmorgan yeah - it was the first thing on the schedule wednesday morning18:06
* notmorgan shrugs.18:06
* notmorgan is generally not a fan but doesn't care to argue about it too much18:06
lbragstadgagehugo aha - cool18:06
lbragstadgagehugo i'll update the PTG etherpad, too18:07
ayoungcall em labels, and be consistent with Kubernetes18:07
lbragstad#topic PTG Topics: Microversioning18:07
*** openstack changes topic to "PTG Topics: Microversioning (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:07
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gagehugolbragstad ok18:07
lbragstadbased on the feedback in the etherpad, it doesn't sound like we're going to pursue this?18:07
lamtI think the discussion is ongoing with the API-WG18:07
* ayoung prefers macroversioning18:07
lbragstadlamt was there a consensus reached at the PTG in the API-WG session?18:08
dstaneklbragstad: yes, we decided to pass since we don't have a reason for it and it makes client/horizon's life much harder18:08
lamtbut it is needed to resolve some bugs at some point: https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/166060318:08
openstackLaunchpad bug 1660603 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "Difference in Implied Roles check API return code" [High,Confirmed]18:08
samueldmqdstanek: ++18:08
* ayoung proposing Keystone API Version 6. Cuz termie already claimed 4 and 518:08
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rderosedstanek: yeah, that was my understanding as well18:09
lbragstadwould anyone be opposed to me removing it from the backlog until the API-WG comes to consensus on the approach?18:09
lamtno there are some issues they raised regarding interop18:09
dstaneki mention using the microvesion approach next time we update major versions as a way to make trasition easier18:09
notmorganayoung: wfm.18:09
samueldmqlbragstad: that sounds a reasonable plan for me.18:10
notmorganayoung: though i'm -2 on an even number, #justbecause18:10
lbragstadI feel like our spec would probably need to be rewritten in order to encompass the direction of the API-WG18:10
dstaneklbragstad: we talked about having a non-backlog dumping ground for this sort of stuff18:10
notmorganlbragstad: i dislike microversions intensely. but i don't really care about shuffing it off the backlog or not.18:10
dstaneki don't remember what the possible names were18:10
notmorganso if it makes it easier for you, lets do it18:10
lbragstadI personally wouldn't mind periodically updating the backlog so that new folks on the project don't go chasing something we've already come to a decison on18:11
ayoungnotmorgan, 7 it is18:11
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ayoungI thought we were going to go fibonacci18:12
notmorganayoung: i like prime numbers18:12
dstaneklbragstad: yeah, backlog should be the things we intend on doing rather than just a parking spot18:12
lbragstad#action lbragstad to remove microversion spec from backlog linking to this discussion18:12
samueldmqdstanek: lbragstad: I agree with you.18:12
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lbragstad#topic PTG Topics: Improving OIDC support18:13
*** openstack changes topic to "PTG Topics: Improving OIDC support (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:13
lbragstadis anyone interested in picking up the spec proposal to get it merged to backlog if it's still useful?18:13
lbragstad#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/373983 ?18:14
lbragstadwe can keep it in review until we have someone to do it, too18:14
rderoselbragstad: I haven't reviewed, but could take a look18:15
lbragstadI was thinking if it sounded useful and if it's something we should do, we should at least merge it to backlog until we have bandwidth to adderss it18:15
lbragstadrderose ++ that'd be helpful18:15
knikollai'll give it a read18:15
bretonthe only thing that bugs me in the spec is that keystone makes request to external resource via http18:15
samueldmqlbragstad: I think aloga proposed that ^18:16
lbragstadsamueldmq aha - good call18:16
samueldmqcould be useful to check with him if he wants/has time to to revive it :-)18:17
lbragstadsamueldmq ++18:17
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lbragstad#topic PTG Topics: Pluggable fernet backend18:18
*** openstack changes topic to "PTG Topics: Pluggable fernet backend (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:18
lbragstaddo we have an outlook on this for Pike?18:18
lbragstadif not, that's just fine, i'm just trying to gauge the current status18:18
bretoni won't work on it this cycle and i don't think it is still needed18:18
lbragstadanyone else feel differently about this?18:19
bretonfor kubernetes it was solved via secrets18:19
lbragstaddstanek ?18:19
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ayoungI do!18:20
ayounglbragstad, there is a tool called Custodia18:20
ayoungits designed to do Secrets right, and the goal is to plug it in to oslo-config18:21
bretonoh, well, yes, from the perspective this is still needed18:21
ayoungso on a given field, you say "and this field comes from custodia18:21
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ayoungthen we get secure secrets without having to rewrite ever single service in OpenStack18:21
dstaneklbragstad: i wasn't pushing this one18:22
lbragstadayoung breton so are we fine opting for that instead of a pluggable fernet backend?18:22
ayoungand...once we get it working for Custodia, we can use the same tool for fernet, and might I add, credentials18:22
lbragstadok - that makes sense18:22
ayounglbragstad, yes18:22
dstanekcustodia would just be a backend right?18:22
lbragstadregardless - that should be a new spec that proposes using that implementation over our own pluggable implementation18:23
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dstaneklbragstad: hmm....so that wouldn't just be a backend?18:23
ayoungdstanek, sort of18:23
bretonthe spec should describe why we want it18:23
ayoungdstanek, it would be an optional plugin to oslo-config18:23
dstanekhow does that relate to storing fernet keys off of the filesystem?18:24
ayoungload it the way we do the Kerberos modules18:24
ayoungdstanek, that is what Custodia is for18:24
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ayoungsecret delivery. Can be stored in the kernel keyring, delivered vuia DBSU, or a few other options18:25
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lbragstadso maybe we should remove the implementation details of the fernet key store spec and make it super general,18:25
dstaneki'm not following  why it's an oslo.config thing18:25
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ayoungdstanek, and, if that does not work for everyone, at least we have a proof-of-concept in place for doing secrets securely in oslo, maybe using different plugins there18:25
ayoungdstanek, because you are thinking about how Fernet is done today18:26
ayoungwhich is dumb18:26
ayoungit is dumb because it has to be18:26
dstaneki was thinking something super simple like a backend that has a single method that returns a list of keys.18:26
ayoungbecause we did not give proper key support in oslo-config so lbragstad and the other Fernet devs had to solve it themselves18:26
dstaneki don't want to do something that would make us depend on another service18:26
ayoungdstanek, oh, we could do that,.18:26
ayoungbut then we still have database passwords in config files18:27
ayoungand rabbit passwords18:27
ayoungand all that crap18:27
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ayoungsolve it once;  and then Fernet makes use of that solution.  As does credentials18:27
dstanekayoung: i'm not saying that we shouldn't try to get rid of it only that making keystone depend on another service is a big deal18:27
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ayoungdstanek, it isn't18:27
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ayoungdstanek, it is going to depend on oslo-config.  Only that18:28
dstanekkeystone -> oslo.config -> credentia?18:28
ayoungCustodia will be there only for people that want it off system18:28
lbragstadso - where is oslo.config going to store things?18:28
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dstanekor are you proposing make introduce the idea of backends to olso.config18:28
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ayoungdstanek, I am proposing, on a key-by-key bases, to have backends for oslo.config18:29
lbragstadthat's how i understood it18:29
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ayoungI know who is going to implement this, but I am not yet at liberty to say18:29
dolphmso, fernet keys would be a multistringopt?18:30
ayoungdolphm, I think so, yes18:30
lbragstaddoes it rhyme with Shemed Bat?18:30
ayounglbragstad, nope18:30
dolphmi've never met a deployer that could deal with multistring opts18:30
ayoungdolphm, heh18:30
ayoungdolphm, it could still be 3 string options: fernet1 fernet2 fernet318:30
ayoungI don't really care18:30
dstanekif we only do this in oslo.config then key rotation will suck for file based keys18:31
ayoungdstanek, key rotation already sucks unless you are doing it solely on a single instance18:31
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lbragstadit was designed to work for a cluster from a single instance18:32
dolphmto be orchestrated, though18:32
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ayoungyeah but that is nothing like a complete solution.  Copying around cleartext keys is a poor security mechanism18:33
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dolphmthat's not really different than copying around secrets in config files in plain text18:33
dstaneki'm just saying that we need to understand the whole picture before we change direction too much18:34
ayoungso...we should be able to continue to support the fernet-in-its-own file thing via oslo anyway, as we already have some code like that for domain specific backends18:34
lbragstaddo we agree that we *don't* want to pursue a pluggable fernet backend?18:34
ayoungso...let me redefine the problem18:34
dolphmi've been trying to read back, and i'm lost as to what the problem being solved here actually is?18:34
dstaneki'd be interesting in seeing an x-project spec that deals with oslo.config, rotation, etc.18:34
ayounghow do we manage secrets; fernet, credentials, sql passwrods, and rabbit passwords18:35
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lbragstaddolphm i'm revisiting all the carry over topics from ocata18:35
dstanekdolphm: there is a want to make a fernet backend for keystorage18:35
lbragstadi really just need to know if we want to pursue the fernet key store backend spec18:35
dstanekso that someone can store in DB, something else, etc and not on the filesystem18:35
lbragstador if I can remove it from the backlog18:35
dstaneklbragstad: someone actively wanted that...are they still interested?18:35
dolphmdstanek: oh, sure. how does this relate to oslo.config? barbican does not return config files18:36
lbragstaddstanek i thought that was breton but I could be wrong18:36
dstanekdolphm: ayoung wants to update oslo.config to optionally use a third-party service to store passwords so that they are not in the config file18:36
dstanekit's on tangentially related18:36
ayoungand I want fernet and credentials keys to use that same mechanism18:37
lbragstadif that's the case - we should document the need for a pluggable backend of somekind and fix the spec18:37
dstanekif we do break this up into backends then one for that wouldn't be terribly hard18:37
ayounglbragstad, I am waiting for the person that is going to work on this to take it over.  I'll let that person write the spec18:37
dstaneki don't think that's necesarily a pike thing....but is fernet backends?18:38
lbragstadayoung can you suggest to said person to take over the fernet backend spec?18:38
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bretondstanek: lbragstad: it was me for a specific reason -- containers18:38
lbragstador update it if/when we come to consensus on the approarch?18:38
ayounglbragstad, if and only if it is done by Custodia (first) as that is what the engineer is hired to work on.  Otherwise, that person will just work on oslo.config support for secrets.18:39
ayoungnot my call18:39
bretondstanek: lbragstad: it was solved for containers and i don't work at a place where containers are, so i don't want that that much any more18:39
bretonbut ayoung has a point18:39
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dstanekbreton: ah right18:39
ayoungdstanek, lbragstad please read up on Custodia, and I will have the person working on it engage as soon as orientation is complete18:40
dstaneklbragstad: if nobody i actively asking for it i say punt18:40
dstanekwe can always revisit later if/when someone cares18:40
dstanekayoung: it sounds like a simple version of barbican18:41
lbragstadworks for me18:41
lbragstad#action lbragstad to remove the fernet pluggable backend spec linking back to this discussion18:41
ayoungdstanek, that ideas are very comparable18:41
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lbragstad#topic Backlogged specs: Using alembic for migrations18:41
*** openstack changes topic to "Backlogged specs: Using alembic for migrations (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:41
dstanekwoot - another one bites the dust18:41
lbragstaddo we have consensus that this is not needed?18:42
lbragstadthat was prior to all the work for rolling upgrades18:42
lbragstadwhich makes our structure around using sqla a little more involved18:42
rderoselbragstad: ++ not needed18:43
lbragstadso - i would have imagined that if we wanted to accomplish this, we would have done so before we implemented rolling upgrade support18:43
dstaneki thought migrate was on it's last let and we will need to move eventually18:43
bknudson_we might not have a choice if sqlalchemy-migrate is dropped18:43
dstanekbknudson_: ++18:43
lbragstadsqla-migrate might be dropped?18:44
dstanekthis wasn't for rolling upgrades it was because alembic is the new, supported hottness18:44
bknudson_I don't think it's being maintained anymore.18:44
dstaneklbragstad: iiuc it's dead18:45
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samueldmqso that means we still want to replace sqla-migrate with that18:45
lbragstadso - does it make sense to update the alembic spec specifying the need to keep it around for that case?18:45
samueldmqlbragstad: should be nice to have this cycle if that does not take too much effort18:45
dstaneklbragstad: probably18:46
samueldmqlbragstad: it does for me18:46
lbragstadwell - that's the real question... so far i don't think i've heard much negative feedback on our current approach18:46
lbragstadso if it's any more than trivial i would probably not spend cycles on it18:46
dstanekwe forked it to make updates since it's dead https://github.com/openstack/sqlalchemy-migrate18:46
lbragstads/it's/moving to alembic/18:46
dstaneklbragstad: agreed.... we are ok in the short term18:47
lbragstad#action update the alembic spec to clarify the need if sqla-migrate goes away18:47
lbragstadi think we have time for one more18:47
lbragstad#topic Backlogged specs: Centralized Policies Distribution Mechanism18:47
*** openstack changes topic to "Backlogged specs: Centralized Policies Distribution Mechanism (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:47
bknudson_I wonder how many projects are using sqlalchemy-migrate?18:47
dolphmglance *just* switched to alembic18:48
lbragstad#link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/keystone-specs/specs/keystone/backlog/centralized-policies-delivering-mechanism.html18:48
lbragstaddoes this still make sense?18:48
samueldmqlbragstad: I think all those in policy should be invalid/on hold for now18:48
samueldmqgiven the agreed cross-project directions/priorities18:49
dstaneksamueldmq: ++ i don't know how to reconcile that with our current nova-driven direction18:49
lbragstadyeah - i'm inclined to say the same18:49
samueldmqwe're not focusing on centralizing it in any way inthe cross-project, at least now18:49
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knikollaayoung: that includes role check in middleware i believe18:49
ayoungdepends on whether my talk gets approved18:50
samueldmqwould be nice to keep'em in a separate place (things-we-might-consider-revisiting-in-the-future), but not backlog18:50
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* samueldmq refers to his specs on centralizing policy on keystone and fetching'em on middleware for enforcement18:51
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lbragstadif after all the policy-in-code and documentation work happens we have a clear path forward with an approach that centralizes policy, we can repropose it18:52
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samueldmqlbragstad: ++18:52
lbragstad#action remove  Centralized Policies Distribution Mechanism spec from backlog18:53
lbragstadalright - we can be done there... leaves some time for open discussion18:53
lbragstad#topic open discussion18:53
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:53
samueldmqlbragstad: there was also Decouple auth from API version and Materialized Path for HMT18:54
samueldmqwant to discuss that next time ?18:54
lbragstadsamueldmq yeah - i figured we can discuss those next week18:54
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lbragstaddoes anyone have anything they want to talk about from the ptg?18:55
lbragstadI should have a recap posted sometime today that summarizes things from a keystone-perspective18:55
dstaneki enjoyed the PTG - from my perspective it was just like the design summit, but maybe more focused18:55
lbragstaddstanek ++18:56
lbragstadI'm curious to see how the feedback gets rolled into the next one18:56
samueldmqsame here, although the first 2 days (cross-proj) might need some restructure/organization on topics18:56
samueldmqparticipation was quite low on the first 2 days when compared to the rest18:56
lbragstadyeah - i'm going to try and push to be there the first two days next time, if we follow the same horizontal/vertical format18:57
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samueldmqother than that, it was great to see you all there :)18:57
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lbragstad++ yeah - it was a good week18:58
rderosesamueldmq: ++18:58
lbragstadunless anyone has anything else, i'll let everyone get a couple minutes back18:58
dstanekyeah, that was a little difficult, but i think was mostly company driven18:58
lbragstaddstanek true18:58
lbragstaddstanek that could be a thing that is cleared up with communication, too18:59
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lbragstadwell - thanks for coming everyone!18:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"18:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue Feb 28 18:59:42 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:59
samueldmqlbragstad: thanks!18:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-02-28-18.00.html18:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-02-28-18.00.txt18:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-02-28-18.00.log.html18:59
dstaneklbragstad: yep. it was just thefirst one :-)18:59
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fungiinfra team, conjugate!19:00
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clarkbfungi: does that require doing maths?19:00
fungieven better... grammar!19:00
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Zaragerund gerund gerund19:00
Zaradid I do it right19:00
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fungithis week we have topics proposed by ianw, pabelanger, clarkb, fungi19:01
JayF/win 2219:01
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JayFsorry :(19:01
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fungi#startmeeting infra19:03
openstackMeeting started Tue Feb 28 19:03:22 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:03
fungi#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting19:03
fungi#topic Announcements19:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
fungiclarkb: want to #info the zanata maintenance here?19:03
fungiwe can cover general discussion about it later19:04
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clarkb#info upgrading translate.openstack.org to Xenial + java 8 + zanata 3.9.6 Wednesday March 1 at 2300 UTC19:04
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clarkbthis adds a bunch of features that the translators have been asking for19:04
fungias always, feel free to hit me up with announcements you want included in future meetings19:04
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fungi#topic Actions from last meeting19:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:05
fungi#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-02-14-19.03.html Minutes from last meeting19:05
fungi"1. (none)"19:05
fungiand done19:05
fungi#topic Specs approval19:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)"19:05
fungiwe don't seem to have anything new up this week, though there are a few hanging out there that could use some eyeballs19:06
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/434951 Stackalytics Persistent Cache19:07
fungithat one in particular could stand to get some attention since it is basically the last bit standing between us and being able to move to running stackalytics.openstack.org as production19:07
fungiso anybody with an interest in stackalytics, please weigh in19:08
clarkbfungi: isn't that something better for the stackalytics devs to weigh in on?19:08
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clarkbI guess I don't really feel like I'd be a great reviewer19:08
fungiwell, we need to review it from the standpoint of whether this is a fit for the current automation and configuration management issues we have with the service19:08
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pabelangerI can take a look, only because I helped get stackalytics.o.o online. But would agree with clarkb , we should ping core reviewers on stackalytics19:09
fungibut yes, the implementation on the stackalytics side would still need buy-off from their maintainers19:09
fungimrmartin: ^ reminder that the stackalytics devs should also take a look at that spec19:10
fungi#topic Priority Efforts19:10
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Meeting topic: infra)"19:10
funginothing called out specifically here for this week, but we got a lot tackled at the ptg last week19:10
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fungi#topic Apache workers on static.o.o (ianw)19:11
*** openstack changes topic to "Apache workers on static.o.o (ianw) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:11
ianwhi, this has caused several problems for me lately19:11
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fungilooks like the first change linked there has already merged19:12
ianwpeople reporting job failures, and on monday at least two reports for static.o.o and docs.o.o of intermittent connections19:12
ianwdid i link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/426639/ ?19:12
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fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/426639 Switch static.openstack.org to worker MPM19:12
pabelangerI gave a +2 a while back, thought we were ready to move it into production19:12
pabelangerdidn't +3 as couldn't monitor19:13
ianwyeah, i just didn't want to go fiddling with it without consensus19:13
fungioh, right, it didn't get workflow +1 yet, i misread19:13
jeblair+2.  is mpm-event in xenial?19:14
fungi#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-infra/%23openstack-infra.2017-02-26.log.html#t2017-02-26T23:57:30 discussion of job failures and user downtime19:14
clarkbjeblair: its the default in xenial iirc19:14
jeblairso this might be short lived if we organize our xenial virtual sprint19:14
ianwi believe that the xenial version has, however, put in fixes for this particular issue19:14
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ianwalright, if no major issues then i might babysit it this afternoon when it's quiet.  in theory, at least, it should just be an apache restart19:15
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fungiyeah, i can't personally participate in the xenial upgrades sprint until at least week-after-next but hope we can do that rsn19:16
fungiianw: sounds fine to me. go for it19:16
fungianything else we need to cover on this topic?19:17
ianwnope /EOT19:17
fungi#topic migrate github/bagpipe-bgp into openstack/networking-bagpipe (pabelanger)19:18
*** openstack changes topic to "migrate github/bagpipe-bgp into openstack/networking-bagpipe (pabelanger) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:18
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pabelangerso, clarkb and I talked a little about this topic this morning. I think we have it under control now.19:18
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/438573 migrate github/bagpipe-bgp into openstack/networking-bagpipe19:18
pabelangerI wasn't sure if we had an automated process for re-import or it was manual19:18
pabelangerlooks like manual wins out19:18
pabelangerso, we just need to schedule this with project owner I think19:19
fungiright, there's no automation since we expect it to be a rare occurrence19:19
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pabelangergreat, thats all I had19:19
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fungiexcellently brief topic!19:19
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fungi#topic translate.openstack.org upgrade (clarkb)19:19
*** openstack changes topic to "translate.openstack.org upgrade (clarkb) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:19
clarkbjuts wanted to let people know that things are going well on this and plan to run through it tomorrow19:20
fungi#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/translate.o.o-upgrade translate server upgrade maintenance plan19:20
clarkbtranslate-dev has been ahppy on new code once I igured out how jboss and zanata are different19:20
clarkbianychoi has tested translate-dev and is happy with it19:20
clarkbso now we are ready to do production19:20
fungiis translate-dev back to authenticating against openstackid-dev.o.o now?19:21
clarkbfungi: there is a change up for that but I don't think it has merged19:21
clarkblet me find it really quick19:21
funginevermind, i just tested and it's not19:21
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clarkbplease read through the etherpad steps and let me know if you think anything is missing19:21
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/419667 Switch to openstackid-dev for translate-dev19:22
clarkbwe are doing it at an apac friendly time so that ianychoi and others can help test once done19:22
fungii'll go ahead and approve that one now19:22
pabelangerI can be on standby if needed19:23
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fungi23:00 utc wednesday. i _may_ be around or might show up partway into the maintenance19:23
fungihard to know what dinner plans will be with family here19:24
fungibut i'll review the changes you've got linked in the pad at least19:24
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pabelangerfungi: I don't mind doing it19:24
fungithanks pabelanger!19:24
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/438738 Add translate01 to cacti19:25
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fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/438737 Update db creds for translate01.o.o19:25
clarkbnote ^ is WIP because I don't want new server talking to db until we are ready to switch19:25
fungiyep, i assumed so19:26
fungilooks like it hasn't actually saved a db dump yet19:27
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fungii guess that merged more recently than utc midnight19:27
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funginothing in the etherpad is jumping out at me as overlooked or concerning19:28
clarkboh it should've done a db dump since I manually ran one19:28
clarkbfungi: I ran both the mysqldump command and bup command from cron (in that order) to jump start the backup process19:29
fungithe /var/backups/mysql_backups dir is empty except for what looks like a logrotated empty file19:29
fungion translate0119:29
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clarkbfungi: on translate.openstack.org?19:29
clarkbya translate01 does not have backups yet19:29
clarkbtranslate.o.o had never had backups so I wanted those in place first, then will transition backups to 01 when we switch19:30
fungigot it. i saw it had the dump job in its crontab, but i guess it doesn't have access to the production db yet anyway19:30
fungiyou're going to use zuul enqueue-ref to test/prime teh periodic translation jobs?19:31
clarkbwell not enqueue-ref since they re periodic iirc19:32
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fungienqueue needs a change id19:32
fungiand patchset19:32
fungienqueue-ref can be provided a branch tip or whatever19:33
clarkbah ok19:33
fungithough i guess the ref itself is irrelevant in that case19:33
clarkbright just need to say run nova's periodic translation jobs early19:33
fungii haven't personally tried manually enqueuing a periodic job in zuul. you might find you have to compose a trigger-job.py invocation for each one instead19:33
fungibut hopefully the zuul cli works in this case19:34
clarkbotherwise they run around 0600 UTC which is quite a bit later19:34
clarkbI will sort out what the command to enqueue periodic jobs is19:36
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fungimight save you some time later19:37
fungiokay, anything else on this? if not, open discussion ensues19:37
clarkbI don't have anything else. ianychoi has done a bunch of user side testing and I think I have the system side sorted so expect it to be mostly happyness (now I have jinxed it)19:38
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fungiwell, here's hoping that if nothing else, we only need to upgrade to zanata 3.9.6 once19:38
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fungi#topic Open discussion19:39
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)"19:39
clarkbfor open discussion more and more groups seem interested in upgrading our nodepool builders19:39
clarkbwe might want to schedule that oto19:39
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fungiin service of assembling a ptg summary, i've seeded an etherpad from the zuul v3 accomplishments mentioned in yesterday's zuul meeting19:40
fungi#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/infra-ptg-pike-recap brainstorming pad for ptg recap19:40
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fungipeople who worked on other things during the ptg (storyboard, translations tooling, job failure diagnosis, et cetera) please add some bullets!19:41
pabelangerclarkb: agreed, should be something we can roll into production19:41
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clarkblooking at the puppetry for builders it apperas that we should already work with systemd except for possibly needing to do the systemctl command to reload units (in this case our sys v scripts)19:41
pabelangerWe'd need xenial for epensuse images too19:41
felipemonteiroHi, Mirantis currently hosts Murano's CI environment. They've expressed interest in moving it to me. Would it be possible to have infra do this?19:41
fungifelipemonteiro: does it do anything special or have any special requirements which they were unable to upstream previously?19:42
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jeblairclarkb: can you elaborate on 'upgrading our nodepool builders'?19:42
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clarkbjeblair: ianw/dib have wanted us to upgrade to xenial from trusty to be closer to how dib is running CI. And SUSE is interested in building suse images but that requires zypper install that works which isn't available on trusty but is on xenial19:43
fungiadding xenial-based builders19:43
felipemonteirofungi: I doubt it. Serg Melikyan told me it's "1 medium sized VM with Jenkins and 1 hardware node with 96 RAM".19:43
clarkbjeblair: so adding xenial based builders, then deleting the trusty ones19:43
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mordredfelipemonteiro: the hardware node with 96 ram would be the thing that might make running the jobs in infra tricky19:44
mordredfelipemonteiro: is that node just being used as a source of vms?19:44
mordred(I believe I remember Serg was doing things with libvirt builders)19:44
jeblairclarkb, fungi, pabelanger: sounds good to me.  we wanted to only change one variable at a time with nodepool.  i think we're good to change the next now.  ;)19:44
fungifelipemonteiro: you probably want to look at https://docs.openstack.org/infra/manual/testing.html to confirm there are no known show-stoppers for you19:45
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clarkbfelipemonteiro: mordred fungi I think what we'd want to do is port the jobs over into our infra and not host a separate jenkins19:45
fungi#link https://docs.openstack.org/infra/manual/testing.html Test Environment documentation19:45
mordredclarkb: yes19:45
pabelangerjeblair: ya, I'm not rushing nodepool-builder swap. Maybe in a few weeks :)19:45
mordredclarkb, felipemonteiro: yes. that is19:45
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ianwi'm happy to take as an action item getting a xenial builder into some pre-production state19:46
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ianwi would like that for dib reasons19:46
mordredclarkb: also s/not host a separate jenkins/not host a jenkins at all/19:46
clarkbianw: cool, I think that would be a good first step to just make sure that systemd and friends work due to funnyness around how puppet deals with that19:46
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fungi#action ianw launch a "beta" nodepool builder on xenial19:47
clarkbianw: I half expect our post puppet reboot to fix that for our first install, but in general case it may not work since you need a systemctl load-units or whatever to pick up sysv scripts19:47
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ianwif that's the only systemd issue, i think we call ourselves lucky :)19:48
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felipemonteiromordred: Thanks. I'll check with Mirantis to see if these requirements are good enough for murano-ci.19:48
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clarkbfelipemonteiro: so I think you want to read over the document that fungi linked to understand the limitations involved, then if you can work with those start porting your jobs into our CI by adding new jobs like everyone else19:49
mordredfelipemonteiro: awesome.19:49
felipemonteiroclarkb: You mentioned how you don't want to host a separate Jenkins...does this mean you want everything infra if I understood correctly?19:49
felipemonteiroin infra19:50
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mordredfelipemonteiro: yes19:50
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clarkbfelipemonteiro: right we would not take over the setup by running a new jenkins for you. Instead you would need to run your jobs as first party jobs in infra19:50
mordredfelipemonteiro: either all of the jobs should just be ported into our project-config repo and run as normal jobs, or none of it should be run in infra19:50
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blancosI had a question regarding setting up CI gates for a new(ish) project19:51
mordredif the jobs are already written in jenkins-job-builder, then porting them over into project-config should be _fairly_ easy19:51
clarkbblancos: feel free to ask, or hop over to #openstack-infra after the meeting and ask there19:52
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felipemonteiromordred: I see. I'll try to get more information regarding whether it's just the ci jobs that are hosted by Mirantis. I have no objection with moving everything to infra.19:52
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mordredfelipemonteiro: cool. if it's possible, it certainly seems like a good direction!19:53
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blancosclarkb: I guess the question is really just procedural; i.e., what's needed from me?19:54
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clarkbblancos: you'll need to propose changes to openstack-infra/project-config that adds jobs in jenkins/jobs and then tells zuul to run them via zuul/layout.yaml19:54
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fungi#link https://docs.openstack.org/infra/manual/creators.html#add-basic-jenkins-jobs Project Creator’s Guide: Add Basic Jenkins Jobs19:55
fungiblancos: ^ not sure if you've been following that guide19:55
blancosfungi: Thank you :)19:55
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fungiayoung: those are fun19:57
ayoungsorry wrong room19:57
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fungiayoung: no problem. thought maybe you were reporting a problem/need wrt those19:57
ayoungnah, more as a solution to other problems fungi19:58
fungiokay, open discussion seems to be winding down. i'll go ahead and polish up the ptg recap this evening. don't forget to add your highlights to the recap etherpad if you have any19:58
fungithanks everyone!19:58
clarkbI'm going to enter a cave this afternoon to do track chair duties for summit19:58
clarkbI will try to watch irc for fires but really need to get ^ done before dealdine19:59
fungii have family in town still so am mostly not around19:59
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fungiand that basically brings us to time for the tc meeting, up now!19:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue Feb 28 19:59:44 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-02-28-19.03.html19:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-02-28-19.03.txt19:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-02-28-19.03.log.html19:59
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* fungi checks back in for tc shenanigans20:00
* dims back just in time20:00
ttxdhellmann, dtroyer, flaper87, fungi, mordred, mtreinish, stevemar: around ?20:01
thingeeexcellent first ptg!20:01
* rockyg is pretending to be at a live meeting while really sitting in the back eating popcorn...want some?20:01
dimsthingee ++20:01
ttx#startmeeting tc20:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Feb 28 20:01:30 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:01
mtreinishttx: o/20:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"20:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'20:01
thingeegood work to ttx and diablo_rojo and erin disney for planning it20:01
ttxsdague has an unexpected family thing to take care of20:01
ttxOur agenda for today is at:20:01
mtreinishttx: sdague said he won't be able to make it today20:01
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee20:01
mtreinishheh, I'm too slow :)20:02
ttxmtreinish: yeah, saw that20:02
ttxreordered agenda a bit in consequence20:02
ttx(friendly remember to use #info #idea and #link liberally to make for a more readable summary)20:02
ttx#topic move the UX team to legacy status20:02
*** openstack changes topic to "move the UX team to legacy status (Meeting topic: tc)"20:02
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/43795720:02
ttxWas proposed following the discussion @ http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-January/109622.html20:02
EmilienMship it20:02
ttxWe'll definitely have a Forum discussion about how to drive future UX efforts20:02
ttxMost likely using a workgroup (like the API WG) if there are enough people interested20:03
ttxIn the mean time, should retire the "project team" since it doesn't even have a PTL20:03
thingee++ working group20:03
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mtreinishttx: I think UX makes a lot more sense as a WG20:03
* edleafe tiptoes in late20:03
johnthetubaguyyeah, good plan to discuss at the forum with a working group20:03
johnthetubaguywell, to create one20:03
ttxok, approving now20:03
flaper87yeah, working group sounds like a better format for UX20:03
* flaper87 states what everyone has stated already20:03
ttx#topic PTG postmortem20:03
*** openstack changes topic to "PTG postmortem (Meeting topic: tc)"20:03
ttxAny feedback on PTG ?20:04
ttxWe already identified a number of potential improvements20:04
flaper87AWESOME PTG!20:04
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ttxLike doing a smarter split, or making the schedule more globally visible20:04
dtroyerOverall I was very happy with the format20:04
ttxBut need to be careful to not kill what made the event great20:04
* flaper87 calms down20:04
* notmyname wishes we'd had more ops present20:04
lbragstadnotmyname ++20:04
johnthetubaguyyeah, something more globaly visible, certainly for the first two days cross project things20:04
flaper87the feedback I got was quite positive20:04
thingeeflaper87: ++20:04
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dhellmannI've seen a couple of people suggest a bit more scheduling for cross-project discussions on the first few days, and I think that might help. Especially for the goals rooms.20:04
johnthetubaguyyeah, more ops would have been nice, although in Nova we were lucky20:04
johnthetubaguyI wonder if PTG + Ops meetup would make sense20:05
mtreinishdhellmann: yeah, I think that would definitely help20:05
jbrycejohnthetubaguy: i was actually going to ask about that20:05
notmynamejohnthetubaguy: YES!20:05
dimsttx : it was great!. 2 items as feedback - 1) shorten the first 2 days to a 1-1/2 days and 2) more structure, better time slots for the first 2 days20:05
thingeecombine the ops midcycle?20:05
ttxLast I checked they wanted to keep them separate20:05
lbragstaddhellmann I would agree20:05
ttxand go local20:05
flaper87In general, it'd be great to provide a way for teams to make their agenda public, even if it's not immutable (ethercal?)20:05
EmilienMdhellmann: we'll fix that next time I guess20:05
notmynamettx: yeah, but that was the same exact thing that individual prject teams said too ;-)20:05
fungii thought the ptg worked out great, wouldn't change much. maybe small incremental improvements20:05
jbryceat one point we did have an idea to potentially colocate, but it seemed like there was some pushback from both dev and ops side. i'm open to having that discussion again though20:05
edleafeYeah, +1 to a clearer schedule20:05
dhellmannflaper87 : ++, though ethercalc doesn't work on a phone, so it's not great when moving between rooms20:05
lbragstadfwiw - keystone approached it very similar to how we schedule midcycles and that seemed to work well for us20:06
johnthetubaguynow... the forum, depending might be the dev + ops thing we need, but hard to tell till we try that I guess20:06
dims++ dhellmann20:06
thingeeif they're not combined, I'd imagine we'd always hit this problem for people to justify to employers ptg + forum + ops midcycle20:06
flaper87dhellmann: good point20:06
flaper87i guess some tool like that that would allow for mutable schedules to be published20:06
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ttxright, once we have one "forum" the ops+dev feedback loop will be clearer20:06
dhellmannjbryce : if the point is to have an opportunity for contributor teams to focus internally on their work, I'm not sure colocation helps. Isn't that what the forum is for?20:06
ttxdhellmann: ++20:06
johnthetubaguyhearing from the smaller projects was interesting, they had a lot more time, and benefited from that20:06
dimsttx : jbryce : i saw numbers posted on -ptg channel. repost here for wider audience? :)20:06
flaper87that way everyone can know what the heck is going on in each room20:06
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notmynamethere's still a lot of confusion around what the PTG means for the summit or forum (or even what those are) and who should be where20:06
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ttx508 registered with 478 on site20:07
johnthetubaguydhellmann: but... without operators answering out questions in the Nova room, I am sure we would go way off track20:07
dhellmannflaper87 : even something that pulled from the ethercalc and presented a scrollable html page might be good enough20:07
jbrycedhellmann: i agree, just throwing it out there for discussion20:07
flaper87dhellmann: ++20:07
fungicurious what the drive to add more non-upstream-developer operators into the mix is. i thought we wanted to push operator and user feedback to the forum20:07
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ttxAnyway, that's a good cue for the next topic20:07
mordredjohnthetubaguy: yah - I liked how we had folks from 'smaller' projects in the importnat conversations20:07
dhellmannjohnthetubaguy : I'm not saying exclude everyone, I'm just not sure turning this into another giant event will solve the problem we said the split was addressing20:07
johnthetubaguyfungi: its more it was obviously missing, I think once the forum happens, yeah, it might be different20:07
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johnthetubaguymordred: true, it worked both ways I think20:08
dims++ johnthetubaguy20:08
mordredjohnthetubaguy: ++20:08
johnthetubaguydhellmann: yeah, it might just be a messaging thing, the 3/4 ops folks in our room was great, but they came to our midcycles anyways, so maybe they don't count20:08
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* mordred wonders if there is a difference in pre-incrementing and post-incrementing a johnthetubaguy20:08
dhellmannjohnthetubaguy : some balance with more than 0 ops would be good20:09
ttxAlright -- if you have more feedback, the survey should still be up20:09
jbryceit's probably a good idea to get through the full cycle (ptg, ops meetup, forum) and then see if we're getting the right interactions or not20:09
* mordred tweets that johnthetubaguy said some ops people don't count20:09
ttxjbryce: yes20:09
johnthetubaguymordred: heh20:09
mordredjbryce: ++20:09
ttxwhich brings up to next topic20:09
mtreinishjohnthetubaguy: heh, yeah the nova room looked like the normal midcycle crowd when I was there20:09
ttx#topic Forum is next20:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Forum is next (Meeting topic: tc)"20:09
johnthetubaguymtreinish: yeah, which was nice20:09
ttxBoston Summit is in 10 weeks (!)20:09
dhellmannjbryce : mid-stream isn't the best time to change horses?!20:09
ttxWe need to start building the schedule for the cross-community discussions at the "Forum" there20:09
mordreddhellmann: or replace horses with leopards?20:09
mordredttx: oy. really? 10 weeks?20:10
ttxThe general idea is to start collecting ideas on etherpad(s)20:10
jbrycedhellmann: ha...i'm known for being deliberative. especially about my horses = )20:10
ttxThen to submit the result of that brainstorming to some CFP system (probably good old odsreg system)20:10
mtreinishttx: that seems like its too soon :)20:10
ttxAnd then a group from TC / UC / Staff would select and schedule the discussion topics on available slots20:10
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ttxPlan is for 2 of each group to keep the committee small20:10
* mtreinish hasn't even processed all his todos from the ptg yet20:10
ttxSo first question, who here would be interested in being part of that selection committee ?20:10
ttxBetter if your term does not finish in April I guess... So mordred sdague stevemar dhellmann emilienM fungi20:10
mtreinishttx: I can help with that I think20:11
mtreinishheh, or not :)20:11
fungiyeah, i'm happy to pitch in on it20:11
dimslol flaper8720:11
* stevemar sneaks in20:11
johnthetubaguyjust to throw an idea out there, it seems like there are two sets of things: new ideas/requirements and prioritising the current planned things20:11
johnthetubaguyttx: I am happy to help, but yeah, my term is closing soon too I think20:11
EmilienMttx: I'm interested for sure20:11
johnthetubaguyare there other bit groups of things we want, rather than those two? I am curious20:12
ttxThen I think the TC should start a brainstorming etherpad, and invite other groups to start thinking about it20:12
dhellmannjohnthetubaguy : some sort of retrospective or issue list for ocata would be good20:12
ttxShould send something along the lines of http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-operators/2017-February/012793.html20:12
* fungi wonders why we shouldn't extend the organizing to any tc emeritus and, well, maybe others in the community who are interested in helping20:12
jbrycei'd add a 3rd set which i think is slightly different than your first one: more of the strategic higher level thinking for the future20:12
fungiahh, invite other groups. got it20:12
johnthetubaguy(priority picking includes feedback on existing ideas)20:12
dhellmannfungi : anyone can contribute, but we need a small group to make decisions20:12
fungidhellmann: yep, that seems fine20:13
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dimsack dhellmann20:13
johnthetubaguydhellmann: yeah, I guess general feedback, the more typical ops sessions at the summit are a bit like that I guess20:13
EmilienMdhellmann: I agree20:13
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fungiselection committee basically == track chairs20:13
ttxI think we need to get in the habit of discussing things that require ops presence at the Forum, vs. things that are mostly internal-facing at the PTG20:13
ttxwhich is why a full cycle will help20:13
ttxfungi: yes20:14
johnthetubaguyttx: totally, we need to try that before we change course20:14
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flaper87ttx: I think I like that idea better.20:14
dhellmannjbryce : I like the idea of near- vs. longer- term for framing it. Something like "how is ocata working out for you?" then "what are you interested in seeing in queens?" then "what about after queens?"20:14
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dhellmannalthough there will also be sessions on specific things like "how should quotas work?"20:15
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ttxdhellmann: yes, that is how the email on the ops list framed it20:15
ttx#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-operators/2017-February/012793.html20:15
jbrycedhellmann: yeah exactly. i think one of the big potential benefits of the forum is actually decoupling some conversations from a release cycle20:15
* dhellmann hasn't looked at that email20:15
lbragstaddhellmann that would be helpful for projects to determine priority for sure20:15
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fungiand the perennial ptl dunking booth, of course20:15
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johnthetubaguythe thing I don't want to miss is direct feedback on current ideas for the future, often the big problem is picking what things should be done first, discarding things that will not really help20:16
ttxok, so the unquestionable volunteer would be EmilienM (fungi being Foundation staff could use one of the staff helper slots if nobody else takes it), so I'll work with him to get that email sent tomorrow20:16
dhellmannjohnthetubaguy : so a "we're planning X, are we headed in the right direction?" session20:17
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fungithanks EmilienM!20:17
EmilienMwell, I did nothing yet :P20:17
ttxEmilienM: we'll customize http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-operators/2017-February/012793.html20:17
johnthetubaguydhellmann: yeah, and which of these 10 ideas should be our top 5 for next cycle20:17
ttxif you want to start on that work early20:17
fungiand yeah, don't want too much foundation representation on the committee20:17
EmilienMttx: yes, let's work together offline20:17
dhellmannttx: apparently I have a lot of opinions on this, too, so I can help if you need another non-staffer20:17
johnthetubaguydhellmann: dependencies such of course, so its an interactive debate20:17
ttxdhellmann: you got it.20:17
fungibut i'm happy to be standby20:17
EmilienMdhellmann: thanks :)20:18
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dhellmannjohnthetubaguy : yep. it'll be challenging to organize a session like that for every project team.20:18
johnthetubaguygetting the ops -> dev feedback working better is close to my heart, but yeah20:18
ttx#action EmilienM to work with ttx to announce the start of Forum brainstorming20:18
johnthetubaguydhellmann: agreed, we would need to group stacks of things20:19
dhellmannwe also need to make sure this is ops <-> contrib not just ops -> contrib20:19
fungiso i guess if projects are putting together their roadmaps, this provides a great opportunity to have the community help them filter it down20:19
johnthetubaguyyeah, I drew the arrow wrong20:19
johnthetubaguythe problem is ops -> something -> dev always goes wrong20:19
dimshow about the other groups like the LCOO folks?20:19
dhellmannyeah, I wasn't picking on you, just highlighting how this is a different thing than some of our other feedback sessions20:20
ttxdims: forum is everyone <-> everyone20:20
flaper87johnthetubaguy: ^20:20
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johnthetubaguyflaper87: ?20:20
ttxOK, anything else on that topic ?20:21
dimsbiggest problem is turning the feedback we are getting into actionable items for the dev teams. any ideas there to do differently?20:21
ttxdims: I'd like the person who drives the discussion to post something at the end to the ML20:21
johnthetubaguydims: my reviewing of existing ideas is where we have seen the most success20:21
ttxto extend the discussion20:21
ttxI see Forum discussions as the start of a long story20:22
johnthetubaguyyeah, basically what ttx said20:22
EmilienMttx: yes20:22
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ttxwhich is why the ops email frames it as "the start of the Queens cycle"20:22
dimsright ttx johnthetubaguy20:22
EmilienMttx: that can be transformes in specs in WGs or Community Goals for example20:22
EmilienMtransformed *20:22
mordredEmilienM: ++20:22
fungiwould be especially nice if representatives of the relevant dev teams were there to receive feedback, of course20:22
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ttxEmilienM: in time for being prioritized at the start of thde dev cycle 3 months later, yes20:23
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johnthetubaguyyeah, it has to be two way converation20:23
johnthetubaguya debate20:23
dimsfungi : right20:23
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mordredsome of that will probably feel natural too at some point- the api/discovery discussions at the PTG seemed to produce some rough consensus on some topics which should probably get written up as goals at some point - I imagine similar things will emerge from the ops forum stuff20:24
fungia team which is functioning well should be capable of directly turning that feedback into something actionable on their own, i would think20:24
mordredand the nice part about those is that all of the goals will get to start off with "the operators at the forum all said ..."20:24
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ttxNot just ops. I'd like to see API users there too20:24
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mordredfungi: yah. being able to synthesize so that the teams have clear communication on what is actually being requested is the fun part20:25
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mordredttx: wait - what? we want to hear from API users?20:25
fungi"the people who actually install and run your software put down their torches and pitchforks for a moment and said..."20:25
ttxmordred: shocking I know20:25
clarkbmordred: we can show up with API user hats on20:25
mordredclarkb: we need actual API user hats20:25
mordredthat would be awesome20:25
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* dtroyer makes a note...20:25
ttxOK, I think we have enough to make process here... proposing we switch to next topic20:26
dhellmannfungi : let's not get ahead of ourselves by expecting them to put the torches down20:26
fungifair enough ;)20:26
johnthetubaguyttx: I am curious, how are we recruiting those API user folks?20:26
johnthetubaguytotally want more of that representation20:26
mtreinishjohnthetubaguy: that's a good question, I've very rarely heard from api users directly20:26
ttxjohnthetubaguy: there are a number of tracks targeted to app developers at the summit20:26
jbrycethe infra team is one of the best examples in the world20:26
mtreinishwell except for mordred, but meh :)20:26
fungijohnthetubaguy: dfflanders is trying to find them from the foundation side too20:26
ttxBy having a "Forum" that is not specifically branded "ops" or "devs" I hope to attract them20:26
dtroyerjohnthetubaguy: we hear from them occasionally in -sdks20:26
dimsmtreinish : lol20:27
fungijohnthetubaguy: tracking down and engaging with api users turns out to be challenging20:27
johnthetubaguydtroyer: ah, good point, not sure that gets down to the project much, some of that is good20:27
ttxOne of the issue with the old branding is that it encouraged separation20:27
fungiwe mostly just get the ones wo show up to engage with us instead20:27
jbryceAPI users are definitely harder to find and i think they are less knowledgeable finding their way around the summit. if you have any specific sessions that you think would be important for them, we can probably do some direct outreach to some of the ones we know will be there20:27
johnthetubaguyfungi: +1, I am glad we restarting that effort20:27
mordredjbryce: we should make a big flashing sign "this way lovely API users"20:28
fungiyea, all leads appreciated20:28
ttxOK, we have a bit more to cover, so let's switch topics20:28
ttx#topic Board + TC workshop & TC visioning day in Boston next week20:28
*** openstack changes topic to "Board + TC workshop & TC visioning day in Boston next week (Meeting topic: tc)"20:28
johnthetubaguywe should have an API users feedback rant session maybe? and direct them there in the keynote?20:28
johnthetubaguy(clutches as straws)20:28
dhellmannttx: +UC, right?20:28
ttxwe can come back to Forum brainstorming in open discussion at the end, time permitting20:28
ttxNext week we'll have a board + TC + UC workshop in Boston to try to tackle difficult strategic questions20:28
ttxdhellmann: yes, title typo20:28
johnthetubaguyttx: do we have a list of the topic in advance?20:28
ttxI had reservations that a 30+ people workshop could lead to anything useful...20:28
ttxbut Allison Randall, Alan Clark and Mark Collier worked on a workshop structure that could lead to constructive results20:29
ttxjohnthetubaguy: I can ask Alan to publish something yes20:29
ttxEvent logistics @20:29
ttx#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-tc/2017-February/001338.html20:29
fungijohnthetubaguy: from what i gather it's at least partly following that etherpad we've all been collaborating on20:29
johnthetubaguyttx: that would be awesome, given how I think20:30
johnthetubaguyfungi: ack20:30
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fungibut i agree specific agenda items would be nice20:30
AlanClarkThe agenda is on the wiki:https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/Foundation/8Mar2017BoardMeeting20:30
AlanClarkthat has links to the etherpads that you just referenced20:30
dhellmann#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ocata-strategic-review-board20:30
* flaper87 is sad to be missing the workshop20:30
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* ttx scraps the action he was about to assign himself to20:30
dimsthanks AlanClark20:31
fungithanks AlanClark!20:31
ttxColette and I took the opportunity of having a good share of TC members around to tack a "TC visioning" exercise to the event20:31
ttxMakes the travel a bit more worthwhile20:31
ttxIt will be driven by instructor(s) from ZingTrain, and Colette should be there too.20:31
ttxIf you're looking for a hotel near the event, a number of us will be staying at the Godfrey. Some other(s) are at the Omni.20:31
* dims will be commuting :)20:32
ttxOr we can all crash dims's house20:32
ttxtempting I know20:32
johnthetubaguy#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/Foundation/8Mar2017BoardMeeting20:32
fungii gather the kimpton (zero-nine?) overlooking the burying ground is pretty neat too20:32
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ttxneat but slightly more expensive :)20:32
ttxQuestions on that event ?20:33
* mordred waves at AlanClark20:33
ttxI'll be arriving on Tuesday afternoon and departing late Thursday20:33
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dhellmannis anyone else going to be around for dinner Thursday evening?20:34
mtreinishdhellmann: my plan is to drive up tues. and head out fri morning. I assume sdague is riding with me20:34
thingeedhellmann: o/20:34
mtreinishso we'll likely both be around20:34
dimsdhellmann : i should be able to make it20:35
dhellmanngreat, it sounds like we'll have several folks20:35
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ttxok, if no more questions let's move on to next topic20:35
fungii'm around, not departing until friday morning20:35
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ttx#topic Deprecate postgresql in OpenStack20:35
*** openstack changes topic to "Deprecate postgresql in OpenStack (Meeting topic: tc)"20:35
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/42788020:35
ttxsdague is not around, so quick update on that20:36
ttxThis was mentioned last week at PTG in the context of the "base services" discussion at the Arch WG20:36
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ttxLooks like one good way of approaching base services is to start with a set of viable options20:36
ttx... delivering basic functionality that happens to be the common denominator20:36
ttxThen once the market picks a winner, we contract to that and start using more advanced features from that specific implementation20:36
ttxThis review discussion shows that for databases we may be approaching the point where contraction makes sense20:36
ttxBut for it to make sense we'd have to have MySQL-specific features we'd like to take advantage of.20:37
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ttxThe main issues raised (on the review) are around different defaults and behaviors that the abstraction is not really hiding20:37
ttxMy gripe about this is that we have OpenStack distributions at Huawei and SUSE (which arguably are rising rather than declining) using postgresql20:37
ttxSo I'm wondering if the key problem is not that postgresql is creating a QA / abstraction gap, a gap that those distros should help filling20:37
ttxAnd if after this discussion they still don't, then it may make sense to proceed20:37
ttxThoughts ?20:38
johnthetubaguyI think the key problem is signalling we need more help to keep PostgresSQL supported20:38
dhellmannI'm concerned, based on what I've seen so far, that if folks who want PG show up to help maintain support, they'll be turned away.20:38
johnthetubaguyturned away, why?20:38
dtroyerdhellmann: I think it may take more now than in the past to convince us that the help is long-term20:38
ttxdhellmann: why ? I still haven't seen a clear feature we'd start suing tomorrow in MySQL20:38
thingeedtroyer: ++20:38
dhellmannit seems like there is a very strong voice in favor of dropping support as quickly as possible and not encouraging any support20:39
fungiit's raised a more general concern for me, that any time we mention an alternative solution in official documentation the downstream consumers will assume that's an officially supported solution they can rely on20:39
johnthetubaguyits not really about using features in mysql, its about keeping postgres working, cause it seems to accidentally break all the time20:39
dhellmannttx: no, I haven't seen anything either, that's why I'm concerned20:39
thingeefungi: ++ we're doing a disservice by claiming otherwise20:39
mtreinishjohnthetubaguy: at least it has in the past20:39
dhellmannfungi : yes, we need to be more careful there20:39
ttxjohnthetubaguy: right, so if someone steps up to help and managed to convince us, I don't see why we should proceed20:40
johnthetubaguyfungi: +1 I think a more general statement on support20:40
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johnthetubaguyttx: I think deprecating it should never be considered one way, its the flag to get the help we need to change direction, but maybe thats just me20:40
thingeeFrom the people that are using PG w/ openstack, I want to know who is using completely upstream code. Not their hacked together patches on top.20:40
ttxI don't like "support". I prefer to think in terms of base services20:40
mtreinishthingee: that's a good question20:41
gordci've seen people fixing pgsql. i think you don't see a pgsql person in community is because quite frankly, it's not broken all the time.20:41
flaper87and if there are d/s patches, why those patches have not been pushed upstream20:41
flaper87it'd help us understand better the problem20:41
thingeeflaper87: always a mind blowing question20:41
dimswho can we ask? -operators ML? how do we reach the downstream folks?20:42
jrollI think the main problem here is, there's two arguments about postgres - some people say we're missing out on mysql-only optimizations, and others say we don't have the hands to do QA upstream20:42
dtroyergordc: so it really is not in that bad of shape?  just nobody to quickly jump in when things do happen?20:42
dhellmannflaper87, thingee : you're (a) assuming someone is carrying patches that (b) would be accepted upstream. Are those things true?20:42
fungisome of them have been weighing in on that resolution proposal20:42
thingeedims: sure. we had some public clouds come out and say they're using it20:42
jrollthe former group of people will continue to say we should drop it, the latter might accept help20:42
mtreinishdhellmann: I think the thing is we're not sure about a)20:43
gordcdtroyer: i would say a lot/most of the sql we use is rather generic and works on both. it's just that when it breaks, it's broken on consuming gates since a lot of projects don't test pgsql20:43
ttxjroll: actually 3 sides, as I mention in my review comment20:43
flaper87dhellmann: not really assuming, tbh. I'm just saying that if that happens to be the case, I'd be interested to know why they have not been pushed. The answer could be they were already proposed and rejected or that there's been some other discussion20:43
thingeeNot going to point fingers, but I have reasons to believe some are possibily not using complete upstream code. Which is why I ask this question20:43
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johnthetubaguyfor me its more about timely feedback loops, than extra patches20:43
dhellmannmtreinish : sure. If gordc is right and it doesn't break all that often, maybe there's not a huge set of patches out there, though.20:43
ttxthingee: that said, we should try to bring them back in the fold, rather than isolate them20:43
dimsright thingee20:43
jrollttx: ah yes, fair20:43
johnthetubaguynow the extra patches do slow down the feedback loops20:43
flaper87I don't have reasons to believe there are d/s patches but if there happen to be, I'd like to know what drove that decision20:43
thingeeand this is based on bug reports I get from things trying to use their clouds. mordred knows exactly what I'm talking about20:44
flaper87to understand if we have a technology problem, a community problem or what else20:44
dhellmannthingee : ok, well, if we can't go on the record here I don't know how we address their concerns.20:44
thingeeansible, shade, etc20:44
gordcdhellmann: i guess that's also an argument for not supporting pgsql. because its rather easy to maintain out of tree since it needs very minor tweaks.20:44
smcginnisgordc: For now.20:45
ttxmordred: you mentioned at last meeting that we could leverage features only present in MySQL, if we dropped other support. Any example of a feature that projects would like to use ?20:45
dhellmannI'm guilty of saying "I'm not doing this any more" too (see requirements management), but that's a pretty blunt way to be asking for help.20:45
johnthetubaguyyeah, that would change quickly20:45
gordcsmcginnis: right. :)20:45
dhellmanngordc , smcginnis : right, that only lasts as long as we don't say "mysql-only is ok" and start having some sort of customizations put into place20:45
mordredttx: for instance, knowing whether an schema alter can be done online or not varies very specifically by the type of alter that is happening20:45
johnthetubaguyso... if we create a resolution that says "we have a problem here that needs fixing" rather than mentioning support, would we merge that?20:45
dhellmannjohnthetubaguy : what problem do we have?20:46
mordredttx: so to handle things _generically_ we have to put in rules that say things like "no column alters" - but in reality there are some that are safe and some that are not - but it's highly dependent on db backend20:46
thingeedhellmann, ttx have we actually verified pg jobs are passing today in gate? If not, and people are making it work somehow, there's your answer. These people that want it to continue should help us upstream continue the support.20:46
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ttxmordred: ok20:46
johnthetubaguydhellmann: it keeps breaking, and we need help to keep that working and passing20:46
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mordredttx: to the point where making it reasonable to validate the particular schema alter approach in the large is unworkable and we have to resort to always copying20:46
dhellmannthingee : and I reiterate, would those patches be accepted? because my sense is that some folks would -1 if not -2 them20:46
mtreinishthingee: we turned off the postgres jobs in the integrated gate a while ago20:47
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thingeemtreinish: exactly20:47
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johnthetubaguyassuming it doesn't break the world, they would get accepted, but DB migrations are hard to modify without breaking the world20:47
mordredttx: similarly, the way DDL works on MySQL+Galera is different than on MySQL+Replicatoin and is different still than how it works with postgres with or without postgres ha modes20:47
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thingeedhellmann: I would be in favor of not turning people away that want to help. It's just history has shown in this area people don't stick around to help.20:47
fungiceilo was still running _a_ job that relied on pgsql until very recently tough, so that much at least was working20:47
thingeeas dtroyer has pointed out20:47
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mordredttx: which prevents us from having our services take care of some of theoperations for our operators, because we'd need to know way too much about deployment choice sthey made - even though it's all knowable and actionable20:48
ttxmordred: basically I want to point out direct operational gains, rather than indirect development / maintenance gains20:48
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mordredttx: right. these are direct operational gains20:48
mordredttx: that we cannot develop as developers20:48
ttxso that the pain we introduce on the operational side is compensated by other operational gains20:48
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thingeettx: It's also making the decision of whether or not OpenStack continues to provide options and not opinions of your deployment.20:48
rockygrealize that most folks running postgres are at least one, if not more releases behind.  they aren't following trunk and would only fix stuff that would be backportable.  Otherwise, maintain private patch20:49
mordredwe basically _have_ to punt db ops to our operators rather than being able to aggressively take care of it for our operators20:49
dhellmannrockyg : good point20:49
johnthetubaguywell its about where the options really help or not, vs how much we can help folks20:49
thingeeas we have decided in the past with dlm, we decided to gate against (not yet) zookeeper. We claim support with other implementations because of tooz20:49
ttxmordred: ok, I think we need to express that more clearly in the review. I don't want this to turn into a "dev convenience vs. ops convenience" debate20:50
mordredttx: totally. I honestly could not care less about dev convenience here20:50
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mordrednot that I don't like devs20:50
gordccan we maybe shrink/split review... and start by removing any explicit 'postgresql is supported' text from docs?20:50
mordredI care more that we're literally held back from making more easily operatable things because of the split20:51
fungiyeah, if we're not testing it today, it's disingenuous to have documentation implying it's a supported option20:51
ttxwe'll need to re-propose this as a patch to base-services.rst anyway20:51
dhellmannI don't feel like there's a middle ground here. We either need to say it's supported or say it's not.20:51
thingeefungi: ++20:51
dhellmannbecause if we don't say either, we're just encouraging folks to carry patches on their own20:51
dtroyergordc: like johnthetubaguy's recent (~2 hours old) comment splitting into three things?20:51
thingeeI would say at this point, we say it's not20:51
mordredand as I said before, I'd personally be just as happy if the move were to only support postgres - my point is mostly that in being able to understand the real-world operational characteristics of the persistence layer, we can make operators lives easier20:52
dhellmannthingee : so what's the migration story for all of those deployments currently using it?20:52
gordcdtroyer: didn't read patch recently. will take a look20:52
ttxdhellmann: "openstack services can assume the presence of a MySQL-family database through oslo.db" -- doesn't mean it can't work with anything else, but just means you can take advantage of MySQL-specific optimizations20:52
mordred(albeit at a very real cost to a subset of the existing operators - which is why it's a difficult conversation)20:52
rockygSince it's at least partly a resource problem, why not consider a third-party type of testing with the interested community members providing the hw and monitoring resources?20:52
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dhellmannttx: the moment any application introduces mysql-specific logic somewhere, they will break all postgresql deployments.20:52
thingeedhellmann: they can continue doing their outside patches to keep it working.20:52
* dims googles "migrate from postgres to mysql"20:52
rockygIf the community doesn't come forward, well, they don't want it all that much20:53
mordredrockyg: because the problem I'm trying to solve is actually not a resource problem at all, it's a structural problem20:53
thingeedhellmann: I think it sucks from our perspective too that there is no support20:53
ttxdhellmann: yes. And those will (like today) need patching to continue to work20:53
* jroll returns "gl;hf" to dims20:53
ttxtoday they likely already do20:53
ttxsince they are not CI-tested20:53
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ttxthey can be broken at any time20:53
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ttx(not saying I agree, just unfolding the decision completely)20:54
mordredrockyg: we can't make openstack do more advanced things to manage itself (which is a complaint I get _constantly_ from the people who complain to me) because the semantics of data persistence layers are only marginally similar20:54
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ttxAnyway, sounds like a great side topic for our meeting next week :) Please continue debate on the review / ML thread20:54
mordredthat we could stop installing postgres in the gate is not really a win that is worth anyone's pain20:54
ttx#topic Open discussion20:55
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ttxWe'll skip TC meeting next week as most will be traveling to Boston20:55
EmilienMimho, what is not Ci-tested shouldn't be supported20:55
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EmilienMttx: sounds good20:55
ttxEmilienM: I think we need to stop saying "supported" as it is a bit misleading20:55
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EmilienMttx: also that yes :)20:56
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johnthetubaguyttx: we totally need to define what we mean by that (or not as the case maybe)20:56
ttxI prefer to reuse the language in base services. "Components can assume the presence of..."20:56
ttxwhich is the same without the implications of commercial support20:56
johnthetubaguypeople use the phrase either way, I think we need to say what it means20:56
fungi(or even volunteer support)20:56
dimsEmilienM : rockyg : if we do have third party CI which project(s) will they report success/failures to?20:56
johnthetubaguyfungi: yeah, thats a good way to say what we have20:56
dhellmannttx: in this case, mordred seems to be making the case for "Components can assume the absence of Postgresql"20:57
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ttxdhellmann: I think we'd keep oslo.db as the abstraction20:57
dhellmannoslo.db just gives you a connection, right? it doesn't prevent you from then doing db-specific things with it.20:57
fungii don't know that having postgresql absent prevents projects from using mysql given they can assume _that_ will always be present20:57
dimsdhellmann : so if they want to code their own migrations online or offline without using our migration scripts we should be ok?20:58
dhellmannit's not a full abstraction layer20:58
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ttxwe also should not reject patches that make postgresql work, if that doesn't break MySQL20:58
dimsttx : until when?20:58
dhellmanndims : I'm just asking that we be honest, and not imply that it's going to be easy or possible for anyone to support postgresql in 6-12 months after we've done MySQL-specific things in applications.20:58
dimsagree dhellmann20:58
johnthetubaguyttx: the problem is understanding and validating those patches without CI20:58
ttxdims: It provides a useful abstraction for narrow use cases that want to plug another DB type (at their own risk)20:58
fungithird-party testing aside, it's also a bit much to ask projects not to "turn away" postgresql fixes they can't test reliably20:59
johnthetubaguydhellmann: +1 for the more honest statement20:59
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johnthetubaguyfungi: +120:59
dhellmannso we need to be honest with them that we're dropping support, and honest with ourselves that the change is going to be a big one with need for tools to help those existing contributors who have deployed with PG already.20:59
fungijohnthetubaguy types faster than i do ;)20:59
dimsfungi : indeed20:59
dhellmannfungi : +1, we also don't want some projects accepting them and others rejecting them20:59
dimswe get to rid the bandaid slowly...21:00
dhellmannat least not arbitrarily21:00
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dhellmannif a team wants to keep supporting pg, that's fine21:00
ttxalright, time is up21:00
bswartzI don't see how you stop projects from accepting pg patches -- some of us still have pg in our gates, so we *have* to keep it working21:00
EmilienMttx: thanks for chairing!21:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Feb 28 21:01:05 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:01
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openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-02-28-20.01.html21:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-02-28-20.01.txt21:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-02-28-20.01.log.html21:01
rockygReport upstream. which would mean they would report things that break Postgres, but would need to fix the PS stuff if it breaks not caused by code21:01
rockygfrom OS21:01
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dimsbswartz : the latest round of debate started when ceilometer had a gate job and nova fell down because of a recent change21:01
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dimsceilometer itself was fine...21:02
fungican move discussion to #openstack-dev i guess21:02
dims+1 fungi21:02
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