Tuesday, 2017-03-14

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hongbin#startmeeting zun03:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 14 03:00:03 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is hongbin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.03:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.03:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zun)"03:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'zun'03:00
hongbin#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun#Agenda_for_2017-03-14_0300_UTC Today's agenda03:00
hongbin#topic Roll Call03:00
*** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: zun)"03:00
mkrai_Madhuri Kumari03:00
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hongbinthanks for joining the meeting mkrai_ shubhams pksingh kevinz03:01
hongbinlet's get started03:01
hongbinoh, hey FengShengqin03:01
hongbinFengShengqin: thanks for joining03:01
hongbin#topic Announcements03:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: zun)"03:01
hongbin1. Zun will have two presentations in Boston Summit03:02
hongbin#link https://www.openstack.org/summit/boston-2017/summit-schedule/events/18591/project-update-zun Project Update - Zun03:02
hongbin#link https://www.openstack.org/summit/boston-2017/summit-schedule/events/17988/future-of-containers-in-openstack Future of Containers in OpenStack03:02
mkrai_Yayy !!03:02
pksinghFengShengqin: You had some problem with IRC in your organization? Good to see you here :)03:02
hongbinThere are a few other talks that will related to zun03:02
pksinghi can't be part of the talk03:02
FengShengqinyes,I'm glad too03:02
hongbin#topic Review Action Items03:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Review Action Items (Meeting topic: zun)"03:03
hongbin#topic Cinder integration (diga)03:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Cinder integration (diga) (Meeting topic: zun)"03:03
hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/cinder-zun-integration The BP03:03
hongbinit looks diga is not here, perhaps we could skip this topic for now03:03
hongbinwe could revisit it if diga showed up later in the meeting03:04
hongbinfyi, it seems he was working on this patch last week03:04
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/429943/03:04
hongbin#topic Kuryr integration (hongbin)03:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Kuryr integration (hongbin) (Meeting topic: zun)"03:05
hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/kuryr-integration The BP03:05
hongbini submitted several patches to kuryr-libnetwork, but still waiting for them to be merged03:05
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hongbini wanted to get them all merged first before starting to work on the zun side because the implemenation depends on how the patches will be accepted in kuryr side03:06
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pksinghhongbin: is there any problem in acceptence of those patches in kuryr?03:06
hongbinfyi, here are the patches03:06
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/kuryr-libnetwork+and+owner:%22Hongbin+Lu+%253Chongbin.lu%2540huawei.com%253E%2203:06
pksinghmost of them got +2 :)03:07
hongbinpksingh: reviewers might have some advices on revising the patches03:07
hongbinpksingh: the design might change to address comments from their reviewers03:07
hongbinyes, it looks most of them are close to merge03:08
pksinghhongbin: ok03:08
mkrai_It seems only few are left to be merged03:08
hongbinhopefully, i can get them all merged by this week03:08
pksinghgreat !!03:08
hongbinok, any other comment on this topic?03:08
digasorry got late03:09
hongbindiga: hi diga, thanks for joining03:09
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hongbin#topic Cinder integration (diga)03:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Cinder integration (diga) (Meeting topic: zun)"03:09
hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/cinder-zun-integration The BP03:09
digahongbin: yeah03:09
hongbindiga: ^^03:09
digahongbin: Most of the work is completed, I am facing some problem with Fuxi,03:10
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digahongbin: if you have time tomorrow your day time, can you help on it ?03:10
hongbindiga: yes, i will try03:10
mkrai_diga: What kind of issue?03:10
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digahongbin: Fuxi installation & some integration issues are there03:11
digahongbin: will mail you seperately on this,03:11
pksinghShunli: Welcome :)03:12
digahongbin: mostly on integration level, something is messing up in docker volume call to fuxi03:12
hongbinShunli: hey, thanks for joining  !03:12
hongbindiga: i see03:12
Shunlimy pleasure03:12
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digahongbin: I will send you details on this, I am not able to trace the issue at docker level03:12
hongbindiga: sure, i will try my best to help03:13
digahongbin: thank you03:13
hongbinthanks diga03:13
digahongbin: wc!03:13
hongbin#topic Introduce host capabilities and cpusets (sudipto)03:14
*** openstack changes topic to "Introduce host capabilities and cpusets (sudipto) (Meeting topic: zun)"03:14
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/427007/ The spec03:14
hongbinit looks sudipto is not here right now03:14
digahongbin: I have to join another office meeting at 9, need to leave now03:14
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hongbindiga: ok, ttyl, thanks again for joining the meeting03:14
digahongbin: np03:15
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hongbinok, let's table this topic to next week03:15
hongbinnext one03:15
hongbin#topic Discussion of the image API03:15
*** openstack changes topic to "Discussion of the image API (Meeting topic: zun)"03:16
hongbin#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-image-api the etherpad03:16
hongbinmkrai_: shubhams : want to drive this topic?03:16
mkrai_Ok so I will try to give an update on this03:16
mkrai_hongbin: Yes03:16
mkrai_We (shubham, pksingh and I) had meeting on this and decided on few things03:16
mkrai_pksingh: Please feel free to chime in03:16
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pksinghmkrai_: go ahead :)03:17
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mkrai_We decided to have some of the image APIs(POST, GET, DELETE) and all restricted to admin03:17
mkrai_For multiple hosts, pulling images should be possible for single host, all hosts or list of hosts separated by comma. This can be done in parallel if optimization is needed03:17
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mkrai_And we will have the 'host' field in image DB to store the hosts information03:18
FengShengqincan anyone help how to use mulit zun-computes?03:18
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mkrai_And some of the APIs like search can be removed03:18
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mkrai_That's is all from our discussion03:19
hongbinFengShengqin: your questions is about the image api?03:19
mkrai_What are teams' opinion on it?03:19
hongbinFengShengqin: we can revisit your question later in the meeting agenda03:20
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hongbinmkrai_: if the search api is removed, users won't be able to search in dockerhub/glance?03:20
mkrai_hongbin: Yes03:21
hongbinmkrai_: then they are expacted to use docker/glance cli to do that03:21
hongbinmkrai_: which seems to be fine03:21
mkrai_hongbin: Yes03:21
hongbinmkrai_: the only concern i have is scalability of storing all images X hosts db entries03:22
hongbinmkrai_: however, i think it would be fine to get started in this way as proposed03:22
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hongbinmkrai_: we can revisit it if the scalability is proven to be a problem later03:23
mkrai_I think having a single entry with 'host' field a list to store the images should do03:23
mkrai_sorry store the host info03:23
hongbinperhaps it is better to start with a simpler implementation (host per image)03:24
hongbinthe optimization like storing list of hosts could be done at the second iteration03:24
mkrai_Ok sounds good03:24
pksinghhongbin: +1, it sounds good as of now03:25
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mkrai_Cool. Thanks pksingh and shubhams for the same :)03:25
hongbinmkrai_: pksingh : i have no problem of this approach, it sounds good to me03:25
hongbinothers, any comment?03:25
mkrai_Thanks hongbin03:25
mkrai_I will go ahead with the implementation03:26
hongbinmkrai_: thanks03:26
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hongbinmkrai_: shubhams pksingh thanks for all of you to work out the proposal03:27
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hongbinany other comment before advancing topic?03:27
hongbinok, move on03:28
hongbin#topic Introduce container composition03:28
*** openstack changes topic to "Introduce container composition (Meeting topic: zun)"03:28
hongbinkevinz: want to drive this topic?03:28
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/437759/03:28
kevinzYeah ~ Wenzhi and me will work on this topic03:28
kevinzAnd I've uploaded new version of the spec now03:28
hongbinthe spec looks quite close to remove the wip03:30
kevinzIn the new spec, we plan to implement capsule as K8S pod and incompatible with docker compose yml file(by setting the kind filed)03:30
hongbinkind field?03:31
kevinzYeah "kind" field in yaml file.03:31
hongbinwhat this field is going to represent?03:31
hongbindocker or pod?03:32
kevinzThe "kind" can be set to "compose", if we want to praser the docker-compose file03:32
hongbini see03:32
hongbinnot sure how much this field would help03:33
hongbinbut that is just my feeling03:34
mkrai_Me too. What are the other valid option for field?03:34
pksinghmay be having different APIs would help more, but not sure03:34
kevinzNow just "pod" and "compose", may be add more in the future03:35
kevinzDifferet "kind" field will call different praser for the yaml03:36
mkrai_Ok. I will try to visit the spec today and get more detail.03:36
yuanyingDoes latest docker swarm support docker-compose?03:36
kevinzpksingh: Yeah that is another way to implement03:36
hongbinyuanying: hey, good to see you here :)03:37
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yuanyinghongbin: hi, me too03:37
kevinzyuanying: Not sure, I will check. So IMO, if docker-compose is not important, we will remove its support ?03:37
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yuanyingI guess, docker-compose and pod are different03:38
yuanyingdocker-compose is just a template, right??03:38
kevinzYeah, just a template for multiple dockers. Don't have much functions03:39
yuanyingyes, but pod has other meaning03:39
yuanyingit has tightly related conatiners03:40
yuanyingSo, I think we should avoid to think03:40
hongbinkevinz: i think yuanying bring up a great point here03:41
yuanyingto regard the same between pod and docker-compose03:41
hongbincompose and pod are very different in implementation and meaning03:41
kevinzYeah, compatible with docker compose file may introduce more problem.03:41
hongbini would rather to pick one instead of picking both03:41
kevinzRight, so I think pod is good to implement now03:42
hongbinok, wfm03:42
mkrai_+1 for pod03:42
kevinzMay be table docker-compose compatible in the future03:42
kevinzOK Thanks~ I will update the spec for review03:43
hongbinit looks we agreed on a direction03:43
hongbinkevinz: thanks03:43
kevinzMy pleasure ~ Thanks all for the valuable advice03:43
hongbinany other comment on this topic?03:43
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hongbin#topic Manage resource constraints per sandbox03:44
*** openstack changes topic to "Manage resource constraints per sandbox (Meeting topic: zun)"03:44
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hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/resource-management03:44
hongbini wanted to bring this up to see if everyone agree on this proposal03:45
hongbinor feel free to bring up any opposing point of view03:45
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hongbinthe idea is very simple: adding --cgroup-parent option to poin to the sandbox (infra container) when lauching the real container03:46
hongbine.g. docker run ... -cgroup-parent <sandbox> ...03:46
mkrai_hongbin: Currently there is one container per sandbox. Right?03:46
hongbinmkrai_: yes03:47
mkrai_And does this mean we can have multiple container inside one sandbox?03:47
yuanyingIs this related to Pod implementation?03:47
mkrai_so it means we are exposing the sandbox containers as well03:47
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hongbinyuanying: yes, i guess it will be used by kevinz 's proposal03:48
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mkrai_hongbin: ^03:48
hongbinmkrai_: not really, pod doesn't expose infra container either03:48
mkrai_Yes so that is what I was thinking03:49
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hongbinmkrai_: i mean you know there is a pod, but you don't know the infra container, although you can see the resource constraints of the pods03:49
mkrai_I can't realise the design now, are you planning to submit any spec for this feature?03:50
hongbinmkrai_: you have any specific concern?03:50
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hongbinmkrai_: i can if i am the one who will take this bp :)03:51
mkrai_That will be great :)03:51
hongbinif nobody want to take it, i can be the default, then i can work out a spec, that is fine.03:51
mkrai_As per my knowledge it is not possible to add containers to pod after it is launched. Right ?03:52
hongbinmkrai_: although i am not sure, i think it can03:52
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hongbinmkrai_: the cgroup should be able to change at runtime03:52
mkrai_hongbin: Ok I need to check in k8s03:53
hongbinmkrai_: i don't think k8s allow it, but i mean it is technically possible03:54
hongbinok, let's move to open discussion03:54
hongbin#topic Open Discussion03:54
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: zun)"03:54
hongbinmkrai_: any other concern you have?03:55
mkrai_No but I would prefer to have a spec for this, if everyone is ok03:55
hongbinmkrai_: ack03:55
mkrai_Thanks hongbin03:55
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hongbinFengShengqin: i think you had a question in before, now it is the right time to ask :)03:56
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hongbinothers, any topic to bring up?03:57
hongbinseems no, we can end the meeting a little earlier today03:58
hongbinall, thanks for joining the meeting, see you next time03:58
mkrai_Thank you everyone03:58
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"03:58
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 14 03:58:42 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)03:58
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-03-14-03.00.html03:58
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-03-14-03.00.txt03:58
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-03-14-03.00.log.html03:58
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sagaratoday, sampath maybe cannot join this meeting04:02
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tpatilwho would like to drive this meeting?04:03
rkmrHonjoOK, I try to drive.04:03
sagararkmrHonjo: thanks04:03
rkmrHonjo#startmeeting masakari04:03
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 14 04:03:57 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is rkmrHonjo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.04:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.04:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: masakari)"04:04
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'masakari'04:04
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rkmrHonjo#topic bugs04:04
*** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: masakari)"04:04
rkmrHonjoDo you have any bugs to discuss?04:04
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tpatil# link : https://bugs.launchpad.net/masakari/+bug/167094004:05
openstackLaunchpad bug 1670940 in masakari "If failure host is the reserved host, the compute service of the failure host finally beccomes the enable status" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to takahara.kengo (takahara.kengo)04:05
sagarado we need to talk https://bugs.launchpad.net/masakari/+bug/1670940 ?04:05
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tpatilThere is already a patch up to fix this issue04:06
tpatilI will review this patch soon04:06
rkmrHonjotpatil: Thank you. I'll review it, too.04:06
sagarame too04:06
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rkmrHonjoany other items?04:07
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rkmrHonjook. Let's go to next topic.04:08
rkmrHonjo#topic Pike work items04:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Pike work items (Meeting topic: masakari)"04:08
sagara#link: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/masakari-pike-workitems04:08
rkmrHonjoDo you have objections about priorities written in etherpad?04:09
sagaraI have read all items, I agree those priorities.04:10
tpatilme too04:10
Dinesh_Bhoryes, me too04:11
rkmrHonjome too.04:11
Dinesh_BhorAbout this: Python 3.x support04:12
tpatilIt will be nice to see specs for high priority items04:12
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Dinesh_BhorI think most of the masakari code is already PY3 compatible04:12
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tpatilDinesh_Bhor: Do we have any gate jobs that run on PY3?04:14
Dinesh_Bhortpatil: No, not yet04:14
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tpatilIt's better to add this support before declaring it's py3 compatible04:15
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Dinesh_Bhortpatil: Agree04:15
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sagaratpatil, Dinesh_Bhor: Do we need to change py3 priority?04:16
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tpatilAnyone want to run masakari on Py3?04:18
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tpatilIf yes, we can make it high priority04:18
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sagaraI haven't heard run masakari on Py3.04:19
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sagaraSo, I think we don't need to change that priority (remains Low)04:20
rkmrHonjoI think that there are a few people running openstack on Py3.04:20
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rkmrHonjosagara: I agree to your opinion.04:22
Dinesh_Bhorsagara: I am ok with L04:23
tpatilrkmrHonjo: Let's these people comment on the Py3 item on etherpad and we can change it's priority to high. What do you guys think?04:23
sagaratpatil: I agree04:24
tpatilDinesh has added a new BP04:24
tpatil# link: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/masakari/+spec/enable-openstack-proposal-bot04:24
rkmrHonjotpatil: I agree.04:24
tpatilsagara, rkmrHonjo: Thanks04:25
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tpatilAdd devstack plugin for masakari-monitors04:25
tpatilFor above item , I don't think there is a need for specs04:26
tpatilpresently, masakari doesn't install masakari-monitors on single node04:26
tpatilwe should add this support in masakari devstack plugin itself04:27
sagaratpatil: I agree, I think it also need for destructive testing for masakari04:28
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tpatilsagara: correct04:29
tpatilRecoverable libvirt events customization04:29
tpatilWho will write specs for this item?04:29
rkmrHonjotpatil: me.04:29
rkmrHonjosorry, not me.04:30
sagaraIs it sampath idea?04:30
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tpatilWe need to understand which libvirt events to support and what action to take for each of them04:31
rkmrHonjosagara: the idea is written by me. but the person who writes specs is not decided.04:31
rkmrHonjotpatil: yes.04:31
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rkmrHonjosagara, tpatil: OK, I try to write specs.04:32
tpatilAdd ssl support to Masakari API04:32
tpatilWe have worked on this item before. Will upload patch soon04:33
rkmrHonjo#action rkrmHonjo write Recoverable libvirt events customization spec04:33
abhishekktpatil: for this no changes needed in masakari04:33
tpatilabhishekk: need to confirm it again04:34
abhishekktpatil: we need to get this patch merged in devstack https://review.openstack.org/#/c/416009/04:34
sagara"Add ssl support to Masakari API" have already implemented (but not merged)?04:34
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sagaraI confirmed it. ok so I will review it.04:35
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rkmrHonjoabhishekk: Can we use HTTPS endpoint if we install current masakari by manual(not devstack)?04:36
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sagarasorry, I misunderstood about https://review.openstack.org/#/c/416009/04:37
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abhishekkrkmrHonjo: I have not tried mannualy, but IMO it will work04:37
rkmrHonjoabhishekk: ok, thanks.04:38
abhishekkyou just need to create https endpoints04:38
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rkmrHonjoabhishekk: Really? Is specifying key files in masakari.conf unnecessary?04:40
abhishekkrkmrHonjo: you need to specify ssl_key_file = /opt/stack/data/CA/int-ca/private/devstack-cert.key and04:42
abhishekkssl_cert_file = /opt/stack/data/CA/int-ca/devstack-cert.crt04:42
abhishekkunder wsgi section in masakari.conf04:42
rkmrHonjoabhishekk: thanks!04:42
abhishekkthese key files you can found in devstack repo04:43
sagaraLet's talk next item04:46
rkmrHonjoOK. After all, should we need to change the priority? I think that it is not needed.04:46
rkmrHonjosagara: sorry, ok. let's go to next item.04:47
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sagararkmrHonjo: don't need to change "add ssl support"'s priority. and it maybe already works well.04:48
rkmrHonjosagara: ok.04:49
sagaraIs there any comment for items below?04:50
rkmrHonjosagara: no.04:50
tpatilcan we proceed to the next topic?04:52
rkmrHonjotpati: Yeah. Next topic is AOB.04:52
sagaratpatil: yes. I already agree04:52
rkmrHonjo#topic AOB04:52
*** openstack changes topic to "AOB (Meeting topic: masakari)"04:52
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rkmrHonjoDo you have any other topics?04:53
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rkmrHonjoOK, thank you all. this meeting is over.04:54
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rkmrHonjo(I'll write "endmeeting" after that.)04:55
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"04:55
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 14 04:55:20 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)04:55
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-03-14-04.03.html04:55
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-03-14-04.03.txt04:55
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-03-14-04.03.log.html04:55
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rkmrHonjothank you all. bye.04:56
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eranrom#startmeeting storlets08:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 14 08:00:28 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is eranrom. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.08:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.08:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storlets)"08:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'storlets'08:00
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eranromLet's start.08:01
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eranromakihito: Hi08:02
eranromI did not add anything to the agenda08:02
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eranromThere is something on stopping unused containers08:02
eranromwhich I am looking at08:02
kota_takashi: !!!!08:03
akihitotakashi: Hi!08:03
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kota_we missed you takashi at the PTG08:03
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takashiall: hi08:03
takashikota_: sorry about that :-( I'll check your great discussion result...08:04
eranromtakashi: Hi!08:04
takashiThere are no big topics from my side today. I think I should review some of the patches about agent refactoring08:05
takashieranrom: o/08:05
eranromtakashi: great to see you here!08:05
takashieranrom: me too :-)08:05
takashiit would be great if I can ask some review about https://review.openstack.org/#/c/426586/08:05
takashiespecially from kota_ :-P08:05
kota_what's that?08:06
takashiabout range handling08:06
eranrom#topic: Patches priority reviews08:06
*** openstack changes topic to ": Patches priority reviews (Meeting topic: storlets)"08:06
takashieranrom: thx08:06
takashiI'm afraid this is very affective bug, so I'll backport it to stable later.08:07
takashiafter we land the fix08:07
takashiI think we also need to backport the patch to fix breaking unit test to stable08:07
eranromtakashi: yep, good point.08:07
eranromtakashi: I think I did that.08:08
takashiwhich is submitted by kota_ and already merged to master08:08
takashieranrom: I'm afraid that I overlooked that. thx!08:08
kota_if no big topic here, can we look at the patch together?08:08
kota_what's the difference after the version i reviewed08:08
kota_sorry, I have to re-install the change in my head :/08:09
akihitoI have 'stopping unused containers' topic.08:09
takashikota_: added some unit tests to assert my change08:09
sagaraI have resource limiting topic, but now I am writing that to etherpad.08:09
sagara#link: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/storlets-rate-resource-limiting-design08:09
takashikota_: in tests/unit/swift_middleware/handlers/test_obj.py and tests/unit/swift_middleware/handlers/test_proxy.py08:10
eranromok lets spend few minutes on the patch, and then proceed with Sagara's and Akihito's topics08:10
takashieranrom: +108:10
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akihitoThank you! I wrote my topic in etherpad.08:10
akihitoNo. 10 - 1208:10
eranromkota_: takashi: we want to go over this one https://review.openstack.org/#/c/426586/ right?08:11
kota_takashi: quick question, current *file* object range shouldbe [start, end] but http range [start, end), right?08:11
eranromakihito: yes, I saw good topic!08:11
kota_eranrom: yes08:11
takashikota_: yes08:11
kota_k and the middleware (which in http layer) resolves (translates) to file08:11
kota_make sense.08:11
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kota_takashi: can you make sure https://review.openstack.org/#/c/426586/2..4/tests/unit/swift_middleware/handlers/test_obj.py@25808:13
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kota_the http range calls 1-6 there08:14
takashikota_: oh, sorry08:14
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kota_and http range should be [1, 6) so that 1, 2, 3, 4, 508:14
takashiIn http rfc, range should include end08:14
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takashiso http deals range as [start, end]08:14
kota_that means, opposite?08:14
takashikota_: yes08:14
takashicurrent file object deals range as [start, end)08:15
takashiso we need some translation between them08:15
takashimore precisely, current python file object08:15
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kota_ah, ok, the docs in middleware says, general range as (include start, and exclude end)08:15
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takashikota_: I believe that is general range diffinition :-P08:16
eranromkota_: Thanks!08:20
takashikota_: thx!08:20
eranromanything else on reviews?08:20
kota_I still like clear cleanup for convert http range <-> general range (class or functions)08:20
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eranromkota_: My understanding is that the translation between http and files requires adding +1 to the end.08:21
kota_eranrom: correct08:21
eranrompreviously that +1 was in the SBus layer, and Takashi changes that to happen in the middleware level08:21
takashieranrom: previously that +1 was done in Java SDaemon08:22
takashiand not done in Python SDaemon (storlet-daemon)08:22
eranromoh, even worse...08:22
eranromtakashi: right!08:22
takashiwith my patch, +1 is done in gateway side08:22
kota_takashi: that means, Java SDaemon is now +2 for the range?08:22
takashikota_: I removed that +1 in my patch08:22
takashiall range execution case python/java proxy/object is now tested in functional tests08:23
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eranromanything else on ramges?08:24
takashinothing more from me08:25
takashiI'll submit backport patch to stable/ocata later, and ping you after that08:25
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eranromtakashi: sure. thanks!08:26
eranromanything else on patches before we continue?08:26
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kota_please go ahead eranrom08:29
takashilet's move to the next topic08:29
eranromSince I have already read, lets continue with Akihito's topic.08:29
eranrom#topic: Stopping unused containers / storlet demons08:30
*** openstack changes topic to ": Stopping unused containers / storlet demons (Meeting topic: storlets)"08:30
akihitoThank you!08:30
eranromI like the suggestion, I have two comments so far:08:30
eranrom1. We need to add a configurable timeouts for all 3 (I think you mention a timeout only for the third, which is the storlet app)08:31
eranrom2. I would like to understand how you plan to enforce the storlet app timeout. for the factory and storlet daemon it seems pretty streight forward08:32
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eranromsorry one more comment:08:33
eranromRegarding file deletions. Have we agreed on having a storlet create a file?08:33
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kota_sorry, I'm missing the etherpad which we reffers right now08:35
akihitoeranrom: Thank you comments. first. Why we need to set Timeout for daemon_factory and agent process?08:35
akihitoNo. 10-12 :-)08:35
kota_akihito: ah, you added to that one, ok thx08:36
kota_please continue08:36
eranromakihito: because when we, e.g. start the container, and hence the daemon_factory there may be some time passing before any storlet_daemon is started08:36
akihitoOh. I understand! OK. fix it.08:37
eranromsimilarly, there may pass some time after we start a storlet_daemon and before we get a storlet request08:37
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akihitofor No2 comments. I want to add timeout for storlet app in agent_process.08:39
akihitohttps:/In /github.com/openstack/storlets/blob/master/storlets/agent/daemon/manager.py#L223-L22408:39
akihitosorry <<https://github.com/openstack/storlets/blob/master/storlets/agent/daemon/manager.py#L223-L224>>08:39
akihitorefer to <<https://review.openstack.org/#/c/410296/5/storlets/agent/common/server.py>>08:40
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akihitooh. sorry..08:40
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eranromMaking a suggestion:08:43
eranromHow about writing comments on the etherpads, and use the time now for questions.08:44
kota_i support that idea08:45
eranromakihito: I will comment on the Etherpad regarding your answer to comment 2.08:45
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akihitoeranrom: I see. Thank you.08:46
kota_eranrom: on the question for you08:49
eranromkota_: yep08:49
kota_eranrom: meaning "should we support that storlet app can write some files into the local in the container"08:49
kota_eranrom: I strongly recommend to support that option08:49
eranromkota_: right, we started this discussion. and I think takashi also wanted to ask on this.08:50
kota_eranrom: I know, we *don't* want such in-effective use case for our storlet streaming apps08:50
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kota_eranrom: however, from my experience with my custormers, absolutely we will have a clif (might be wall) when translating leagcy app to the storlet one.08:51
kota_i'm calling *legacy* app is something like which can run on file system08:51
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eranromkota_: I see.08:52
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kota_eranrom: i can manage the translation with my custormer but almost case for our poc starts with just running legacy app in the storlet container08:52
kota_that is enabled to write the files to read08:53
kota_i have certain cases for now,08:53
kota_not only oss08:54
eranromkota_: I was asking because I had the same problem with ffmpeg for which I found a solution08:54
eranromkota_: got it08:54
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eranromok, note that cleaning up those files is as simple as restarting the container (and deleting the older instance)08:54
kota_eranrom: maybe it's one of them. espically, a kind of hard-coded 'path-forced' input format.08:55
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eranromkota_: yep08:55
kota_like "progam -i file_to_path"08:55
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eranromWill you be interested to setup another time this week to discuss the comments for Sagara's and Akihito's suggestions?08:56
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eranromwe can read it all and comment by then08:56
eranromwe can meet in #openstack-storlets08:56
sagarayes, I would like you to review resource limiting design.08:56
eranromTomorrow same time?08:57
kota_i could have08:58
takashiI'll join if possible08:58
takashiI had some local discussions about the topics with sagara-san and akihito, so I think you can have the discussion without me.08:59
sagarajust a wait08:59
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eranromtakashi: ok, sure!08:59
sagaraI can join tomorrow meeting at same time.09:00
eranromsagara: greate thanks09:00
eranromI must end here.09:00
sagaraeranrom: thanks09:00
eranromLets go to #openstack-storlets09:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"09:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 14 09:00:37 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)09:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2017/storlets.2017-03-14-08.00.html09:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2017/storlets.2017-03-14-08.00.txt09:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2017/storlets.2017-03-14-08.00.log.html09:00
yuval#startmeeting karbor09:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 14 09:00:48 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is yuval. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.09:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.09:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: karbor)"09:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'karbor'09:00
yuvalHello, and welcome to Karbor's weekly meeting!09:00
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zhangshuaihi, all09:01
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yuvalOn the agenda today: finalizing the list of goals for Pike, including schedule09:01
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yuvalLet's wait 2 more minutes for people to arrive09:02
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yuvalchenying_: zhonghua, xiangxinyong, chenzeng, wu, chenhuayi are coming?09:05
chenying_yuval: waiting  I will make a call.09:06
chenying_I am not at the office.09:06
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zengchensorry, i'm late09:08
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yuvalwhat about chenhuayi? wu?09:10
zhonghuahe is sick09:10
yuvallet's start09:10
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yuval#topic Pike09:10
*** openstack changes topic to "Pike (Meeting topic: karbor)"09:10
yuvalSee the agenda and the link to the purposed final goals in https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Karbor09:11
yuvalThe Google document in the agenda includes a list of goals and schedule09:12
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yuvalBesides specs and features, we should put heavy emphasize on deployment documentation09:13
yuvalSpecifically plugin developer guides and API reference09:13
yuvalDoes anyone has a suggestion about a missing feature, or priority for a listed goal?09:14
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yuvalIf you have, please burst in to say, I'll go over the high priority goals09:15
zhonghuayuval, should we discuss the list one by one?09:15
yuvalI'll go over the important ones only09:15
chenying_Hi yuval suggest that write the agenda to openstack etherpad. Most of time the Google document is unavailable for us.09:16
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yuvalCopied it here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/karbor-Pike-planning09:17
chenying_Ok Thanks.09:17
yuval1. release-with-intermediary09:18
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yuvalWe have adopted release-with-intermediary release model09:18
yuvalsee https://releases.openstack.org/reference/release_models.html09:18
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yuvalthis basically means that we have to release python-karborclient on time (over a month before the actual release)09:19
yuvaland we will have a feature freeze in karbor, about a month before the actual release09:20
yuvalso remembering new features in the last minute will not get inside Karbor. Plan accordingly09:20
zhonghuadoes that mean we should make a milestone plan09:21
yuvalWe are not bound to milestones, but we should try to follow them as best we can. We must comply to the feature-freeze deadlines09:22
zhonghuaonly FF?09:22
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yuvalThis means that we should put very high effort on specs in the following 1-2 months, then high effort on features, then high effort on bugs in the last 1-2 months09:23
yuvalzhonghua: see here https://releases.openstack.org/pike/schedule.html09:23
chenying_Bank indexing: about this goal, do we need intreoduce a new indexing component to karor in pike?09:24
yuvalchenying_: we will get to that in a minute09:24
yuvalI opened a milestone for pike in launchpad: https://launchpad.net/karbor/+milestone/pike-ms09:25
yuvalPlease bookmark it. Specs and bugs for pike should be attached to it09:25
yuvalImportant specs for Pike:09:25
yuvalWe have the Tiramisu spec and implementation in Cinder, which is relevant to Karbor:09:26
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yuval2. Bank indexing spec - important spec about interface for indexing and querying checkpoints. The interface should provide a solution for single-site and multi-site scenarios09:28
yuvalchenying_: to your question: add the interface and reference implementation09:28
chenying_yuval  single-site usecase, we can database bank. The Bank indexing may is not needed.09:29
yuvalchenying_: database can be used for the bank backend, but karbor currently doesn't have a index/query interface09:30
zhonghuachenying_, +109:30
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yuvalchenying_: by adding the index/query interface, we can use the database inherent indexing in single-site scenario09:30
chenying_yuval: IMO introduce a new project or component to karbor , it is too heavy and make it more complex for bank module.09:31
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chenying_yuval IMO introduce a new project or component about indexing to karbor09:31
yuvalchenying_: there must be misunderstanding, as this is not about introducing a new project09:31
chenying_yuval  a new project or component like searchlight09:32
zhonghuayuval, Iam not sure is it neccessary to add this interface as a standard interface09:32
yuvalchenying_: as said, there is a misunderstanding, nobody said anything about adding a new project or component09:33
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yuvalchenying_: we are speaking about karbor requirement to query checkpoints: by date, by plan, by metadata, etc09:33
yuvalthis can be used by using database indexing, in single-site scenarios where database is used as a bank09:34
yuvalby indexing into a sqlite database in the bank itself09:34
yuvalor an external component09:34
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yuvalindex/query will be part of the bank interface. we will provide a reference implmentation for sqlite indexing in the bank, and database indexing for database bank plugin09:35
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chenying_yuval I know,  an external component will be intrduced about swift bank. Do we really add extra interface about indexing. In the usecase of database, the default query interface also support indexing  by date, by plan, by metadata, etc09:37
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yuvalchenying_: no, in the case of a object storage bank (e.g swift) we will provide an sqlite index which will reside in the bank itself. Anyone who will want to index the bank in an external component will have to write that for his bank plugin09:38
yuvalwe are short on time, let's continue this specific discussion in karbor channel after meeting09:38
yuvalmoving on to the next item09:38
yuvalMulti-Tenant Isolation spec09:39
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yuvalvery important spec about how to expose checkpoints to users without exposing them to unauthorized users09:39
yuvalthis is relevant to single and multi site scenarios09:39
zhonghuayuval, +109:40
yuvalthis spec is very high priority09:40
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yuvallast critical spec - removing heat09:42
yuvalRegarding documentation - zhonghua is working on getting us a technical writer to assist with documentation09:42
yuvalthis is a critical part of the Pike release09:43
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zhonghuayuval, od you know is there any community team can help us09:43
yuvalzhonghua: yes, I spoke with docs team in PTG. They will be able to assist in reviewing, but they will obviously not write the docs for us09:44
zhonghuagot it09:44
yuvalQuestions? Suggestions?09:45
zhonghuaI will try to find the right guys09:45
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yuvalzhonghua: great09:46
yuval#topic Open Discussion09:47
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yuvalzengchen: xiang12345: chenying_: zhangshuai: ?09:47
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chenying_About the  goal :Deployment09:48
yuvalanything specific?09:48
chenying_Do you have any suggestion about the tools or project which karbor should support.09:49
yuvalchenying_: we currently have Kolla, I think we should extend to OpenStack Ansible09:49
chenying_You know, There are many project or tools about openstack deployment.09:50
yuvalchenying_: RPM/DEB packages are a low hanging fruit IMO09:50
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chenying_yuval: Of course.09:51
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yuvalanything else?09:52
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yuvalThanks for attending, everybody!09:54
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"09:54
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 14 09:54:27 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)09:54
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-03-14-09.00.html09:54
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-03-14-09.00.txt09:54
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-03-14-09.00.log.html09:54
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yanyanhu_#startmeeting senlin13:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 14 13:00:42 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is yanyanhu_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.13:00
Qiming#startmeeting senlin13:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.13:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'senlin'13:00
openstackQiming: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.  Use #endmeeting first.13:00
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Qimingthanks yanyan13:01
yanyanhu_hi, Qiming, sorry a little bit later. the network is unstable, have to use vpn to connect13:01
yanyanhu_Qiming, please go ahead : )13:01
yanyanhu_my pleasure :)13:01
Qimingmeeting agenda posted13:01
Qiming#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda#Weekly_Senlin_.28Clustering.29_meeting13:02
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Qimingbasically the things on the list is about work items update, pike goal tunings, summit pre13:02
Qimingpls add items if any13:02
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Qiminglet's get started13:03
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Qiming#topic pike work items13:03
Qiming#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-pike-workitems13:03
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Qimingapi - profile_only13:04
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Qiming444100 is in now13:04
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QimingAPI test just added: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/445298/13:05
Qimingfound a serious bug in version negotiation13:05
Qimingneed more eyes on it13:05
Qimingthere could be similar bugs in other request objects13:06
XueFengwhich problme?13:06
Qimingsee the about patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/445298/13:06
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Qimingthe obj_make_compatible is not deleting the primitive keys properly13:07
XueFeng            if 'profile_only' in primitive['senlin_object.data']:13:08
XueFeng                del primitive['senlin_object.data']['profile_only']13:08
Qimingmoving on to next topic?13:08
Qimingfeature rich nova server13:08
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elynnI guess current patches are in now13:08
Qimingboth 438891 and 432587 are in13:09
yanyanhu_got merged this afternoon13:09
Qiminglet's see if there are more patches coming in13:09
elynnNeed some tuning and address Qiming's -1 :)13:09
elynnI think it's done for now13:09
Qimingyou can leave those to your backport work13:09
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elynnAnd I plan to move it to nova.server13:09
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elynnpiece by piece13:10
QimingI believe the top priority is to make it work13:10
elynnActually xinhui did a demo internal13:10
Qimingand make sure the summit sessions are well prepared13:10
elynnUse this vdu profile together with monitor from vmware, to create a NFV scenario .13:11
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Qimingmoving on13:11
Qimingengine improvement -- cluster check13:12
XueFengno update this week13:12
Qimingare we working on self-destroyable actions?13:12
Qimingnode adopt13:12
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XueFengprepare for the meetup 2017.3.1813:12
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Qimingproposed a patch:13:12
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yanyanhu_this is what we are expecting13:13
Qimingthere are things very tricky13:13
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Qimingis an attribute you cannot get back from a server13:13
Qimingnetworks, we cannot get the original request if it was created from port ids13:14
Qimingand, port id, even extracted, doesn't seem that useful13:14
Qimingwith elynn's suggestion, I'm only extracting network name13:14
Qimingthe worst thing is about user_data13:15
Qimingwe really need them back13:15
elynnI always thought we can not get user_data...13:15
Qimingnova api microversion 2.3 added this support13:15
elynnSince I didn't find a rest API for it...13:15
Qiminghowever, the attribute is renamed to OS-EXT-SRV-ATTR:user_data ...13:16
elynnokay, good to know13:16
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yanyanhu_yes, user_data is important for further scaling operation13:16
Qimingand it is limited to admin users, as of now13:16
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Qimingtalked to nova-api group, they are onto it.13:16
Qimingthey won't fix the name issue in near future, but they will fix the privilege restriction13:17
XueFengsounds good13:17
Qimingfrom sdk side, brian came up with a hack: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/444933/13:17
Qimingit is not an easy choice to make13:17
Qimingthings are always complicated when we are talking about nova13:18
Qiminguntil that is released, we cannot get user_data back13:18
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Qiminganother todo is about creating snapshot when adopting a server node13:19
Qimingthis is made optional13:19
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Qimingwill need to work on profile level and then engine -> api -> sdk -> client path13:19
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Qimingmoving on13:19
XueFengsorry, this week rdo is also no update13:20
Qimingokay, pls keep pushing13:20
Qimingnext, health management13:20
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Qimingxinhui is not in?13:21
yanyanhu_seems so13:21
yanyanhu_she has been back in last week13:21
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Qimingalright, we have got a talk about enterprise monitoring + senlin + mistral13:21
Qimingthat story has to be made ready13:22
yanyanhu_yes, there is a presentation on it13:22
Qimingmaybe we should move fencing support back to TODO list?13:22
Qimingit is not a trivial job13:22
yanyanhu_maybe another meet in vmware :P13:22
yanyanhu_for the summit preparation13:22
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Qimingem, xinhui called me the other day13:23
Qimingtalking about having senlin make placement decisions13:23
Qimingbecause we are already there, with quite a few policies13:23
yanyanhu_placement policy?13:24
Qimingher question was about how to make it work with the new placement api from nova13:24
QimingI don't have a vision on that either13:24
elynnXinhui is busy recent days and she is sick..13:24
QimingI'm not sure how the placement API is positioned, where it is heading13:24
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yanyanhu_so nova has new api for advanced placement operations?13:25
yanyanhu_if so, that could be helpful13:25
Qimingis it very ambitious to cover all aspects of placement decision? including network and storage factors?13:25
yanyanhu_that is ambitious13:25
Qimingor is it only about host resources and many also other multi-az, multi-region scheduling?13:26
yanyanhu_especially for network13:26
elynnyanyanhu_, yes, nova has a placement API in nova codes now.13:26
Qimingit is mandatory if an devstack installation now13:26
Qiminganyway, let's see what will happen13:26
elynnI guess recent days she will get more details of this requirement, and later we could figure out how we fit in this requirement.13:26
Qimingat the same time, I really don't want to waste time duplicating features from another project13:27
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Qimingokay, so we can stick to our own agenda13:28
elynnyes, we won't reinvent the wheels.13:28
Qimingwe have less than one month to release p-113:28
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elynnJust need to fill the gap.13:29
Qimingwe hope we can may operators life easier, not more painful13:29
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Qiming#link https://releases.openstack.org/pike/schedule.html13:29
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Qimingmoving on?13:30
QimingI guess no progress on client functional tests?13:30
Qimingthough the gate job (non-voting) is ready13:30
Qimingpolicy improvement, wrt LB policy and CLUSTER_RECOVER13:31
Ruijieem, this can be removed ..13:31
Qimingor ... still some minor improvements needed?13:31
Ruijiemay need to improve the data13:32
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XueFengAfter meetup will do all things hard13:32
Qimingokay, thx13:32
Ruijieyes Qiming, still some improvements needed, will look forword to it13:32
Qimingleaving that item there for a while13:33
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QimingNFV support is on the wishlist13:33
Qiminggot no news from Haiwei, although we have a talk on that13:33
QimingXinhui's live demo is for that session, elynn ?13:33
elynnFor haiwei's session?13:34
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elynnNo, xinhui's demo is for internal review.13:34
XueFenghaiwei is busy, and he said he will do the patch in tacker13:34
elynnBut could do some modify and be prepare to other presentation.13:35
Qimingno matter what we are talking about13:35
XueFengAnd then we prepare for the session13:35
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Qimingit has to be in the master, for users to try out13:35
elynnCause it's not purely openstack, including some vmware software. But definitely for NFV.13:36
Qimingokay, then  the openstack part has to be ready13:36
Qimingand possibly an alternative to vmware software as a generic solution would be great13:36
Qimingthere is nothing wrong to present vendor specific solution13:37
XueFengYes, that will be great13:37
Qimingbut a generic one would be more useful to most audience13:37
elynnWe can find a day to let her show us again.13:37
elynnUntil she is not busy and recover from cough .13:38
Qiminganything else on pike work items, the etherpad?13:38
yanyanhu_write a article for senlin[XueFeng Finished13:38
QimingI'm suffering too from coughing lately13:38
yanyanhu_great job from xuefeng13:38
Qimingwould be nice if we have an English version, :)13:38
yanyanhu_Qiming, take a good rest13:39
Qimingcannot reset, man13:39
yanyanhu_really busy recently13:39
XueFengSo we need a English version?13:39
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Qiminggot some instructions to share your workload, just this afternoon13:39
yanyanhu_Qiming, yes, I also got the call...13:40
yanyanhu_need more discussion on it tomorrow13:40
yanyanhu_you know, about the handover13:40
yanyanhu_which will come soon13:40
Qimingmoving on13:40
elynnhandover what?13:40
Qiming#topic pike goals13:40
yanyanhu_elynn, you will get it soon :P13:40
Qimingwe talked about this very briefly last week13:41
XueFengironic container adoption health improve ;do some use cases13:41
elynnokay...bless it's a good news13:41
XueFengMy option in pike13:41
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Qimingmore thoughts?13:42
XueFengcontainer is hot now maybe13:42
Qimingironic has a bp, container is there for improvement, adoption is already started, health improvement needs update from xinhui13:43
QimingXueFeng, when ironic support work has started, please help ensure it is tracked in the workitems etherpad13:44
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yanyanhu_in my mind, both ha and container are very important. For HA, we need a practical use case, for container, we need deployment and orchestration support13:44
XueFengAnd maybe some stories container in baremetel13:44
yanyanhu_I mean something like k8s deployment(or at least something like compose)13:44
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Qimingcontainer on baremetal would be next step when both components are stable13:44
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QimingI'm thinking of a cluster config property13:45
Qimingintroducing yet another abstraction is gonna make things difficult to understand13:45
XueFengRecently, some guys put into zun, and I talk with them13:45
elynnAgree with you, Qiming13:46
Qimingzun is good if it can really make the container runtime easy to use/manage13:46
Qimingstill a lot of things to do in the HA space13:47
Qimingmore thoughts?13:47
XueFengAnd we need to let them know senlin and zun13:47
yanyanhu_yes, if it is reliable for managing container, will be really helpful13:47
XueFengWhich is different13:47
QimingI think that team is aware of both projects' mission13:48
QimingI'd like to see closer integration happen earlier than later13:48
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XueFengSo we can integrate zun+senlin13:48
Qimingwhy not?13:49
Qiming#topic boston summit prep13:49
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QimingI'm only included in one of the talks accepted, the senlin + mistral one13:50
Qimingso that will be my top priority13:50
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QimingI believe xinhui is involved in all three talks?13:50
Qimingmaybe she will be the best driver for this13:51
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Qimingwill sync with her offline13:51
elynn:) you add a lot work to her.13:51
Qimingor better yet, online, when she stops by the #senlin channel13:51
XueFengcongratulate senlin:accepted three sessions in bostion summit.13:51
Qimingelynn, I think she enjoys driving things13:52
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yanyanhusorry just dropped13:52
Qimingor, she may want to offload that to you, elynn13:52
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elynnQiming, I believe what you say.13:52
elynnI will handle all trivial things :)13:53
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Qimingalright, people need some believes, no matter what he/she is working on13:53
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Qiming#topic open discussions13:53
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Qimingsince we cannot talk about talks without xinhui joining us13:54
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Qimingmoving on to open discussions13:54
elynnWill you go to boston summit Qiming ?13:54
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yanyanhu_what is the exact date of summit13:55
elynnMay 5-1113:55
yanyanhu_May 08 - May 1213:55
elynnMay 8-1113:55
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QimingI love pep8 errors13:55
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Qimingit took me almost 3 hours to narrow this down to a pep8 error, :)13:56
Qiminganything else, gentlemen?13:57
yanyanhu_nope from me13:57
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XueFengHi all, I think  container is important in pike cycle:)13:58
Qimingthanks for joining, I have saved one minute for you, remember it13:58
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Qimingyanhan has to end the meeting13:58
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yanyanhunetwork connection is terrible...13:59
yanyanhuhi, Qiming, has the meeting finished?14:00
yanyanhuif so, I will end the meeting14:00
yanyanhuok, seems so14:00
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jlibosvayanyanhu: maybe you need to rename to yanyanhu_ ?14:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"14:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 14 14:01:39 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)14:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2017/senlin.2017-03-14-13.00.html14:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2017/senlin.2017-03-14-13.00.txt14:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2017/senlin.2017-03-14-13.00.log.html14:01
yanyanhujlibosva, it's ok now :)14:01
jlibosvaah :) thanks14:01
jlibosva#startmeeting networking14:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 14 14:01:54 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jlibosva. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:01
yanyanhulooks like my network is poor :(14:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)"14:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'networking'14:01
yanyanhusorry for this14:02
jlibosvaHello friends!14:02
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jlibosva#topic Announcements14:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking)"14:02
jlibosvaSeems like there are no new announcements on the wiki14:02
ajolate o/14:02
jlibosvattx sent out an email with information about Forum at the next OS summit, might be worth reading for those who plan to attend14:03
jlibosva#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-March/113459.html14:03
jlibosvaAlso Emilien sent one to collect ideas about the format14:03
jlibosva#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-March/113115.html14:03
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jlibosvaSo that was about upcoming summit14:03
jlibosvaRegarding stadium14:04
jlibosvaofagent is about to be retired14:04
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EmilienM(let me know any question)14:04
jlibosva#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/441488/14:04
jlibosvaThat's all announcements from me, anybody has anything to announce?14:05
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jlibosvaLet's move on then14:05
jlibosva#topic Blueprints14:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: networking)"14:05
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jlibosvaWe have 14 BP - Does anybody want to raise anything here? Is anybody blocked with his work?14:06
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jlibosvaSeems like we can jump to bugs then14:07
jlibosva#topic Bugs and gate failures14:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs and gate failures (Meeting topic: networking)"14:07
jlibosvaThere has been one critical bug around for a while14:08
jlibosvathis one https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/162710614:08
openstackLaunchpad bug 1627106 in neutron "TimeoutException while executing tests adding bridge using OVSDB native" [Critical,In progress] - Assigned to Terry Wilson (otherwiseguy)14:08
ihrachysit's gone right?14:08
jlibosvaIt looks like it would worth to get https://review.openstack.org/#/c/425623/ in14:08
ihrachysI see functional is stable lately14:08
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jlibosvayes, I was about to say that14:08
ihrachyssee http://grafana.openstack.org/dashboard/db/neutron-failure-rate?panelId=7&fullscreen14:08
jlibosvabut it seems the failure rate got down even before we merged terry's patch :)14:09
jlibosvaand there is still the patch ajo has ^^14:09
ihrachysdid it? there were several fixes by otherwiseguy14:09
ajoAbout the patch14:09
ajoI'd like to talk with terry about it14:09
ajoIt was my understanding that that wasn't the timeout to tweak14:09
ajothis tweaks the timeout of a request to ovsdb14:09
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ajoit was some sort of low level heartbeat protocol timeout what I understood was timing out14:10
ajoand dropping the connections14:10
ajoabut I could have got it wrong14:10
ajoping otherwiseguy14:10
jlibosvaajo: did you see his last comments on the patch?14:10
ajojlibosva in fact I didn't: reading14:10
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ajoso let's move forward14:11
jlibosvaso we should decide whether we want to get that in and eventually close the LP bug14:11
jlibosvawe can discuss on review or LP :)14:11
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ajoIs anything missing on my current patch?14:11
ajocommit message ok14:11
jlibosvaajo: ihrachys has -1 due to closing the bug14:12
ajojlibosva just published an edit, thanks :)14:12
jlibosvaok, moving on14:12
jlibosvathanks ajo :)14:12
jlibosvaOther than that, I don't see any critical bugs14:12
jlibosvaBug deputy for last week was dasanind - he sent a report to ML, good job14:13
dasanindjlibosva: thank you14:13
jlibosvadasanind: oh, you're around, good :) Do you want to update here?14:13
dasanindthere were approximately 25 bugs last week14:13
dasanindI was unable to triage 2 of them :(14:14
dasanind https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/167234514:14
openstackLaunchpad bug 1672345 in neutron "Loadbalancer V2 ports are not serviced by DVR" [Undecided,New]14:14
openstackLaunchpad bug 1672433 in neutron "dhcp-agent should send a grace ARP after assigning IP address in dhcp namespace" [Undecided,New]14:14
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dasanindIn addition to these there were couple of RFEs14:14
ihrachysthe last one is quite interesting. seems like we may want to send garps for dhcp ports too. the use case is a bit blurry and debatable, but ping should work anyhow.14:15
dasanindalso there was an old bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/162909714:16
openstackLaunchpad bug 1629097 in neutron "neutron-rootwrap processes not getting cleaned up" [Undecided,Confirmed]14:16
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dasanindThat's all I had for the bug deputy report :)14:17
jlibosvadasanind: thanks for good work :)14:18
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dasanindjlibosva: thank you14:18
jlibosvaseems like the first one might be a duplicate, would be worth to get feedback from assignee of https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1583694 to confirm14:18
openstackLaunchpad bug 1583694 in neutron "[RFE] DVR support for Allowed_address_pair port that are bound to multiple ACTIVE VM ports" [Wishlist,In progress] - Assigned to Swaminathan Vasudevan (swaminathan-vasudevan)14:18
jlibosvaanybody else has any other bug worth highlighting here?14:19
jlibosvaok, moving on14:20
jlibosvasindhu is bug deputy for this week14:20
jlibosvaand we need a volunteer for next week :)14:20
sindhujlibosva: yes :)14:21
ihrachysI can do next14:21
jlibosvaihrachys: thanks14:21
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jlibosva#info ihrachys bug deputy for week Mar 20th14:21
jlibosva#topic Docs14:22
*** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: networking)"14:22
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jlibosvaI saw john-davidge waving at the beginning of the meeting :)14:22
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jlibosvajohn-davidge: do you want to give any updates?14:22
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jlibosvaok, looks like he's not behind keyboard14:24
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jlibosvawe can get back the topic after OSC if amotoki wants to give any updates? :)14:25
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amotokiare we changing the topic?14:25
jlibosva#topic Transition to OSC14:25
*** openstack changes topic to "Transition to OSC (Meeting topic: networking)"14:25
jlibosvayes :)14:25
amotokino new patch landed last week related to neutron in OSC, but several patches are near to merge.14:26
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amotokiit is a good news.14:26
amotokiI have one thing to note.14:26
amotokiFiltering of OSC networking "list" commands does not work correctly due to the lack of openstacksdk support.14:27
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amotokiI will track the progress of the filtering feature later this week.14:27
amotokiin addition to that, some patches to neutron OSC plugins are proposed reagridng stadium inclusion.14:28
amotokiif you have some, add me to a reviewer.14:28
amotokithat's all from me.14:28
ihrachysre filtering, you mean users can't scope requests?14:29
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amotokiwhat i mean is like 'neutron port-list --network-id <net-id>' or something.14:29
jlibosvaamotoki: is there a LP bug for sdk?14:29
ihrachysyeah. so everything always returned?14:29
amotokijlibosva: I am searching it.....14:29
amotokiihrachys: yeah, all are returned :(14:30
amotokiopenstack network list --external returns all :(14:30
hoangcx"neutron OSC plugins are proposed reagridng stadium inclusion" => https://review.openstack.org/#/c/439978/14:30
amotokihoangcx: VPNaaS is one of them14:30
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hoangcxamotoki, yes. Thank you for your review14:31
reedipamotoki : added :)14:31
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amotokidoes anyone know octavia folks are implementing their OSC plugin? If not I will ask them14:32
dasmamotoki: i think some work is going on, thanks to sindhu and ankur-gupta-f114:32
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amotokidasm: thanks. I was not aware of it.14:33
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amotokiif nothing, let's move on14:34
jlibosvaamotoki: ok, thanks for updates14:35
dasmamotoki: i've double checked. sindhu didn't start her work, but ankur-gupta-f1 has something,. they still waiting for v2 for octavia14:35
bzhaoamotoki, no, I found nothing. And last meeting of ocavia, there is nothing about osc..14:35
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reedipamotoki : ankur posted a patch for octavia14:36
reedipoh , just saw the other messages, thanks dasm14:36
amotokiokay, it looks better to sync their plan on CLI on the progress with octavia. thanks for the input.14:36
amotokiplan and progress.14:36
dasmamotoki: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/428414/14:37
jlibosva#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/439978/14:37
jlibosva#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/428414/14:37
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jlibosvaamotoki: re openstacksdk bug - is network the only resource that can't be filtered?14:38
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amotokijlibosva: I think no. I haven't checked all, but the comment says it does not support query....14:39
youzp#topic specs14:39
jlibosvaso it sounds to me that not only Neutron might be affected14:40
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jlibosvaok, thanks all for osc updates14:40
ankur-gupta-f4Sorry im late :(14:40
amotokiyou're welcome.14:40
jlibosvalet's move to neutron-lib unless there is still something related to osc to discuss14:40
bodenhi, I can provide a quick neutron-lib summary if we’re done with OSC14:41
jlibosva#topic Neutron-lib and planned neutron refactoring14:41
*** openstack changes topic to "Neutron-lib and planned neutron refactoring (Meeting topic: networking)"14:41
john-davidgejlibosva: Sorry about that, had to step away from keyboard for a few minutes14:41
jlibosvaboden: thanks:) go ahead14:41
jlibosvajohn-davidge: no problem, we can get back Docs after neutron-lib, if that's fine14:42
john-davidgejlibosva: Sure :)14:42
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bodenlast week we discussed a new lib release.. we have a release patch proposed https://review.openstack.org/#/c/445483/14:42
bodenas noted; there are 2 other patches I was hoping we could pick up for the release; so hopefully we can close on those in the next day or few14:42
ihrachysboden: no links to patches14:43
ihrachysoh there is one14:43
ihrachysnot another though14:43
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bodenihrachys: yes the other is still under dev in my workspace14:43
bodenif we need a release of lib today; we can go ahead without them, but if no rush it would be helpful to wait14:44
jlibosva#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/442763/14:44
jlibosva#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/44548314:44
ihrachysboden: is it something user visible?14:45
ihrachysbecause e.g. doc update does not merit a release blocker14:45
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bodenihrachys: true, but it clarifies our pep8/hacking check process which will now be “live” for all consumers14:45
bodenis there a rush to release lib, are people waiting on something in the release?14:46
amotokii think docs.o.o/developer/neutron-lib is published from the released version.14:46
amotokiwoops... i am wrong..14:46
dasmamotoki: nope. it's published with every change14:47
ihrachysnot me, I don't wait on it, but would be nice to get e.g. callbacks earlier14:47
bodenihrachys: the patch I’m working on and would like to get in makes neutron-lib api-def consumption work… but again it could wait for the next release if needed14:49
bodenin any case; we can move forward with the release with or without my patches… last time checked the periodic gate was green14:49
dasmditto. both neutron-lib and neutron periodics are green14:50
jlibosvaMaybe we can discuss on the docs update in 445483 change?14:50
bodenthat’s all I have for lib14:50
jlibosvaboden: alright, thanks for update and bringing up the discussion14:50
jlibosva#topic Docs14:50
*** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: networking)"14:50
jlibosvajohn-davidge: hi :)14:50
john-davidgejlibosva: Hi14:50
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john-davidgeWe had a large number of patches merge for the RFC 5737 fix this week. Thanks especially to caoyuan for the chnages14:51
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john-davidgeThere is also a lot of activity on moving documented neutron client commands to OSC. I'd like to remind contributors to make sure the output is being updated as well as the input where neccessary.14:52
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john-davidgeThose are the only major points from me this week, thanks14:53
jlibosvajohn-davidge: thanks!14:53
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jlibosvaany comments anybody for docs?14:53
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jlibosvaok, moving to open discussion, we have 5 mins14:54
jlibosva#topic Open discussion14:54
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: networking)"14:54
annpHi jlibosva and everyone14:54
jlibosvaThere are no new topics in On Demand Agenda14:54
jlibosvaannp: hi :)14:55
annpWe have updated logging api spec (#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/203509) and also uploaded our implementation for OVS firewall driver logging (#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/396104/).14:55
annpCould you please take a look on this and leave your comments?14:55
annpThank you :)14:55
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ihrachysthe prev drivers meeting, we discussed that a tad, and I think the only thing to decide is whether we want to wait for ml2 framework for binding validation before allowing that in14:55
jlibosvaI promised at PTG that I'm gonna have a look :)14:56
ihrachyskevinbenton was for not waiting, but wanted to check with rkukura first14:56
annpjlibosva: Thanks :)14:56
ihrachysI think we should have some go-decision this week14:56
jlibosvaihrachys: the drivers meeting is on Thu?14:57
ihrachyslog: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_drivers/2017/neutron_drivers.2017-03-09-22.00.log.html14:57
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ihrachysin unrelated news, would be nice to see progress on https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:new-neutron-devstack-in-gate14:58
ihrachyssome bits are devstack controlled so not much we can do, but there are some small bits on neutron side14:58
ihrachysso reviews welcome14:58
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jlibosvaannp: thanks for bringing up the SG logging API - seems like it's on radar14:59
annpihrachys: I got it. thanks for your information.14:59
john-davidgeihrachys: Any movement on approval of https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1667329 in drivers meeting?14:59
openstackLaunchpad bug 1667329 in neutron "[RFE] Floating IP Subnets on Routed Provider Networks" [Undecided,Triaged]14:59
jlibosvaihrachys: thanks for the link - I'll try to go through the open changes14:59
ihrachysjohn-davidge: it was not discussed14:59
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john-davidgeihrachys: Ok, thanks15:00
jlibosvawe're out of time15:00
jlibosvathanks everybody for showing up :)15:00
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 14 15:00:19 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2017/networking.2017-03-14-14.01.html15:00
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openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2017/networking.2017-03-14-14.01.txt15:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2017/networking.2017-03-14-14.01.log.html15:00
ralonsoh... and hello to QoS15:00
ralonsoh#startmeeting neutron_qos15:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 14 15:00:54 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ralonsoh. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_qos'15:00
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ralonsohlet's wait 30 secs15:01
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slaweqok, 1..2..3.. :P15:01
ralonsoh#topic RFEs15:01
*** openstack changes topic to "RFEs (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)"15:01
ralonsohlet's go15:01
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ralonsohthe first one15:02
ralonsoh#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/165708915:02
openstackLaunchpad bug 1657089 in neutron "[RFE]Add bandwidth_limit to vip" [Undecided,New]15:02
ralonsoha new one15:02
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reedipnice transition15:02
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ralonsohnot assigned, but should be in the whislist15:02
ralonsohI mean, there are other features to be implemented in QoS15:03
ralonsohfor example, QoS on FIP15:03
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ralonsohI'll ping ajo to set this to low priority15:03
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ralonsohnext one15:03
ralonsoh#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/150562715:03
openstackLaunchpad bug 1505627 in neutron "[RFE] QoS Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) Support" [Wishlist,Incomplete] - Assigned to Reedip (reedip-banerjee)15:03
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ajohi ralonsoh , betherly , slaweq , reedip  :) o/ (sorry to be late)15:04
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ralonsohajo: np!15:04
ralonsohreedip: any update on this one?15:04
slaweqhello ajo15:04
reedipralonsoh : awaiting review on the etherpad from you guys. I have created the environment, would be testing for qrouter and update you with the results soon15:04
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ralonsohas soon as you have patches, ping us to review them15:05
davidshareedip: this is the etherpad right? https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/QoS_ECN15:05
reedipralonsoh : ok, I will draft the spec now, I guess it would be better to get it in for now... else it would always be in the nascent stage15:05
reedipdavidsha  yeah15:05
ralonsohreedip: ok, yes15:06
davidshareedip: cool.15:06
ralonsohreedip: I need to take a second look and make some comments15:06
ralonsohnext one15:06
ralonsoh#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/159661115:06
openstackLaunchpad bug 1596611 in neutron "[RFE] Create L3 IPs with qos (rate limit)" [Wishlist,In progress] - Assigned to LIU Yulong (dragon889)15:06
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ralonsohmy main concern with this one: to make it compatible with current qos implementation15:07
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ralonsohthe spec in under review15:07
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ralonsohone sec15:07
ralonsohI don't find the spec now15:08
ralonsoh#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/374506/15:08
ralonsohYes, thanks15:09
ralonsohis LIU here?15:09
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davidshaIs dragon889 his irc?15:09
ralonsohI don't know....15:09
ralonsohOK, please continue with the reviews. I'll try to ping him15:10
ralonsohnext one15:10
openstackLaunchpad bug 1639220 in neutron "[RFE] Introduce Network QoS policy "is_default" behaviour" [Low,In progress] - Assigned to Rodolfo Alonso (rodolfo-alonso-hernandez)15:10
ralonsohajo: I need you to answer to Ihar and me15:11
ralonsohin launchpad15:11
ajooh, let me check15:11
ralonsohok, let's move to bugs15:12
ralonsoh#topic Bugs15:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)"15:12
ralonsoh#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/166943015:12
openstackLaunchpad bug 1669430 in neutron "Deprecation warning in Neutron QoSDSCPMarkingRule functional tests" [Low,In progress]15:12
ajoI'll answer on LP I need to think :D15:12
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ralonsohajo: np, and thanks!15:12
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ralonsohthis bug should be closed because is addressed by https://review.openstack.org/#/c/43814815:13
ralonsohas soon as the patch is merged15:13
ralonsohactually, I don't think this is a QoS problem15:13
reedipralonsoh : -1 Add related bug or partially closes :)15:14
ralonsohok, but we should remove qos tag15:14
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ralonsohis not related15:14
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davidsharalonsoh: Sorry, saw it in a functional test for a patch I was reviewing!15:14
reedipralonsoh : if this bug is being closed by the above patch, some sort of indication needs to be given, isnt it15:15
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ralonsohreedip: you are right15:15
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ralonsohdavidsha: can you take this one?15:15
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davidsharalonsoh: Sure.15:16
ralonsohdavidsha: just follow it properly15:16
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ralonsohnext one15:16
ralonsoh#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/166713815:16
openstackLaunchpad bug 1667138 in neutron "Minumum bandwidth can be higher than maximum bandwidth limit in same QoS policy" [Medium,In progress] - Assigned to Reedip (reedip-banerjee)15:16
ralonsohreedip: how is going?15:16
reedipaah , I will push this patch in another hour....15:16
reediptest cases pending15:17
slaweqfor me it looks fine now15:17
slaweqbut needs tests still15:17
reedipyeah slaweq :)15:17
ralonsohhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/442375/: we will follow the patch15:17
ralonsohreedip: thank you for taking care of it15:17
ralonsohnext one15:18
ralonsoh#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/166390815:18
openstackLaunchpad bug 1663908 in neutron "Qos rules not cleaned by L2 agent" [Undecided,New] - Assigned to David Shaughnessy (david-shaughnessy)15:18
reedipralonsoh : naah , just doing my job15:18
ralonsohdavidsha: how is going?15:18
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davidsharalonsoh: I was looking into it, wanted to ask slaweq a few question. I'll follow up after the meeting15:19
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slaweqdavidsha: ok, no problem :)15:19
ralonsohperfect, and thanks15:19
ralonsohnext one15:19
ralonsoh#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/166210915:19
openstackLaunchpad bug 1662109 in neutron "tempest scenario test_qos fails intermittently" [High,Confirmed] - Assigned to Miguel Angel Ajo (mangelajo)15:19
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ralonsohthis one is problematic...15:20
ajoyup it is15:20
ajothe test is disabled15:20
ralonsohyes... and there is no solution or clue about the problem?15:20
ajoas far as I could understand, the issue we have is that somehow, the agent doesn't realize that a port has been updated to have a policy15:20
ajoeither because the notification about port update doesn't arrive under some condition15:20
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ajoor because it talks back to neutron, and the policy isn't there?15:21
ajoI couldn't identify the exact root cause15:21
ajoI could see how the policy was created, and attached to port15:21
ajoand agent never sees the port being updated with the policy15:21
ajohance, the rule is not applied15:21
ralonsoha rpc problem?15:22
ajoI should probably unassign the bug from myself if anybody else has bw to look at it15:22
ajothere were changes recently on the ML2 plugin15:22
ajofor port_updates15:22
ajoand notifications15:22
ajomay be it's related to that15:22
ajobasically, we check wether the policy_id changed, and hence trigger the update15:22
ajolet me grab a link15:22
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ajojust look for qos_policy_id in that file, same thing for network policies15:23
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ralonsohnow I don't have time to take a look at this bug15:24
ralonsohin two weeks I'll have more time15:25
ralonsohajo: so if you need help, ping me15:25
ralonsohok, next one15:25
ralonsoh#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/165926515:25
openstackLaunchpad bug 1659265 in neutron "Network level QoS policies should apply to network:router_gateway" [Wishlist,In progress] - Assigned to Maxime (maxime-guyot-p)15:25
ralonsohthis one is under review15:26
ralonsohIMO, the logic implemented is not correct15:26
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ralonsohone sec15:26
ralonsohThis logic allows a net qos policy to override a port qos policy15:27
ralonsohreviews to this patch are welcome15:27
slaweqralonsoh: I will check it today15:27
ralonsohnext one15:27
ralonsoh#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/165738115:27
openstackLaunchpad bug 1657381 in neutron "QoS drivers need to implement a precommit for the actions" [Medium,In progress] - Assigned to Miguel Angel Ajo (mangelajo)15:27
ralonsohajo restarted this one15:28
ajoI had a talk on summit with the ODL people15:28
ajoand they explained me that they had some synchronization constraints in the way the implement things15:28
ajoand they don't need to stop a transaction15:28
ajobut need a log entry in their journal before DB change is commited15:28
ajoI can't remember all the details now, but it made sense at that time :]15:29
ajomanjeets could probably explain it again if necessary15:29
ralonsohperfect: now all extensions will have the qos service extended with this new events15:29
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ajobtw, I need to leave, I'll read the log later15:29
reedipajo : its basically how the newtorking-odl's v2 driver is created15:29
ralonsohsee you!15:29
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ajothank you folks15:30
reedipit needs both pre-commit and post-commit behavior15:30
davidshathanks, see ya15:30
ralonsohnow ajo needs to write the tests in this patch15:30
ralonsohok, last one15:30
ralonsoh#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/164950315:30
openstackLaunchpad bug 1649503 in neutron "Mechanism driver can't be notified with updated network" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Hong Hui Xiao (xiaohhui)15:30
ralonsohit has high importance15:31
ralonsohand it's stopped15:31
ralonsohtoday i'll ping the author. If there is no answer, I'll take this one15:31
ralonsohor anyone here, of course15:31
slaweqit's waiting for kevinbenton opinion AFAIR15:31
ralonsohno no15:31
ralonsohlook at this: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/410101/15:32
slaweqralonsoh: yes, and there is comment from armax15:32
ralonsohand there is no activity in launchpad15:32
slaweqthat maybe kevinbenton has a better suggestion15:32
ralonsohI'll try to re-activate this patch and, eventually, I'll take care of it15:33
ralonsohif you don't mind, of course15:33
slaweqme, no :)15:33
ralonsohok, next topic15:33
ralonsohany other hidden bug?15:34
slaweqbugs no15:34
slaweqbut I think You forgot earlier about https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/158605615:34
openstackLaunchpad bug 1586056 in neutron "[RFE] Improved validation mechanism for QoS rules with port types" [Wishlist,In progress] - Assigned to Slawek Kaplonski (slaweq)15:34
slaweqor I missed it15:34
ralonsohno no15:34
ralonsohyou are right15:34
slaweqso patch is there https://review.openstack.org/#/c/426946/ and waiting for review15:34
slaweqI will address ralonsoh comments today15:34
ralonsohI think this patch is going fast and very well15:35
slaweqthere is one strange thing with fullstack tests15:35
ralonsohbuy reviews are always welcome15:35
slaweqyes :)15:35
slaweqsome of tests are failing but I'm not sure how it can be related to this patch15:35
ralonsohslaweq: ping ajo to review it15:36
slaweqalso, ralonsoh, please double check if supported rules and attributes are properly set15:36
ralonsohslaweq: ?15:36
slaweqbecause e.g for linuxbridge driver https://review.openstack.org/#/c/426946/13/neutron/services/qos/drivers/linuxbridge/driver.py there was MINIMUM BANDWIDT LIMIT RULE15:36
slaweqbut I'm not sure if it's really supported currently15:37
ralonsohno, it's not15:37
slaweqthat's what I thougt but I wasn't sure15:37
ralonsohsriov: max, min15:37
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ralonsohovs: max, dscp15:37
ralonsohlb: max, dscp15:37
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slaweqok, so I have it like that15:37
slaweqthx ralonsoh15:37
ralonsohok, next topic!15:38
ralonsoh#topic Other Changes15:38
*** openstack changes topic to "Other Changes (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)"15:38
ralonsohThere is no agenda...15:38
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ralonsohany suggestion?15:38
betherlyim in process of developing qos panel in horizon15:38
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betherlyajo has been awesome at helping me know what information you will want in the panel and so far i have a basic view available15:38
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ralonsohbetherly: yes, I put this in open discussion15:39
betherlyralonsoh: ah sorry!15:39
ralonsohbetherly: no!15:39
davidshabetherly: Have you a link to the patch?15:39
ralonsohdoesn't matter15:39
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betherlyno actions currently available but its getting there bit by bit15:39
ralonsohI'm not an expert in horizon, but I'll take a look at it15:40
betherlyralonsoh: awesome thanks :)15:40
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ralonsohI'll add this patch to our meetings15:40
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slaweqI will look at it also15:40
ralonsohand if you have any problem, ping us15:40
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ralonsohok, last topic15:41
ralonsoh#topic Open Discussion15:41
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)"15:41
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ralonsohAny other announcement??15:41
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slaweqFYI: I will have talk about QoS in Neutron on Openstack day in Poland15:41
davidshaI should have a PoC for the common classifier up within the next hour or 215:41
slaweqit's next wednesday :)15:41
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davidshaslaweq: congrats and good luck!15:42
ralonsohslaweq: send the link!!15:42
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slaweqdavidsha: thx15:42
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slaweqralonsoh: link to what? slides?15:42
ralonsohslaweq: the youtube video hehehe15:42
slaweqralonsoh: if it will be on Youtube I will send on next meeting :)15:43
slaweqbut it will be probably in polish so You will not understand it :P15:43
reedipgood luck slaweq :)15:43
davidshaslaweq: Half the fun is seeing what google translate will say you said :P15:43
ralonsohyoutbe translator hehehe15:43
ralonsohgood luck15:43
slaweqthx reedip15:43
ralonsohok, guys, thank you very much!!15:44
reedipdavidsha : LOL15:44
ralonsohlet's finish15:44
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:44
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 14 15:44:47 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:44
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_qos/2017/neutron_qos.2017-03-14-15.00.html15:44
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_qos/2017/neutron_qos.2017-03-14-15.00.txt15:44
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_qos/2017/neutron_qos.2017-03-14-15.00.log.html15:44
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ihrachys#startmeeting neutron_ci16:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 14 16:00:55 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ihrachys. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.16:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)"16:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_ci'16:01
ihrachyshi everyone16:01
* ihrachys waves back at manjeets, jlibosva, and dasanind16:02
ihrachys#topic Action items from previous meeting16:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Action items from previous meeting (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)"16:02
ihrachysfirst was: "ihrachys fix e-r bot not reporting in irc channel"16:02
ihrachysI haven't got to that one just yet, need to talk to mtreinish I guess on why it's not reporting, I suspect wrong configuration that is too limiting. lemme repeat the action for the next week.16:03
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ihrachys#action ihrachys fix e-r bot not reporting in irc channel16:03
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ihrachysnext was "ihrachys to clean up dsvm-scenario flavor handling from gate-hook"16:03
ihrachysthat happened16:03
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ihrachyswe landed https://review.openstack.org/#/c/442758/16:03
ihrachysbeyond cleanup, there is some failure in ovs scenario job that started showing up after latest hook rework16:05
ihrachyswe will discuss later16:05
ihrachysnext was "ihrachys to walk thru list of open gate failure bugs and give them love"16:05
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ihrachysI did, closed some bugs that didn't seem relevant16:05
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ihrachysok next was "ihrachys to chase down armax on d-g local.conf breakage assessment for stadium"16:05
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ihrachysarmax posted some patches since then: https://review.openstack.org/442884 for client, https://review.openstack.org/442890 for fwaas16:06
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ihrachysboth were backported into stable branches16:06
ihrachysthere is also ongoing work for sfc gate: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/445037/ and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/442882/16:07
ihrachysI assume that's all there is16:07
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ihrachysok next was "haleyb and mlavalle to investigate what makes dvr gate job failing with 25% rate"16:08
clarkbihrachys: e-r reports that dhcp lease failures are causing problems16:08
clarkbnot sure if that is on your radar or not16:08
ihrachysclarkb: it wasn't. is there a bug?16:08
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clarkbihrachys: yes its top of e-r list http://status.openstack.org/elastic-recheck/index.html16:09
ihrachysmlavalle: hey. we were looking for update on dvr job failure rate that was 25% prev week16:09
clarkbihrachys: the bug is over a year old and "fixed" in nova net, I think we must be rematching errors from syslog? against neutron jobs16:09
clarkbihrachys: so the bug there may not be the most up to date16:09
mlavalleihrachys: I couldn't make progress on that last week :-(16:10
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ihrachysclarkb: yeah, seems like catching generic message16:10
ihrachysmlavalle: ok then I leave the action on you16:10
ihrachys#action haleyb and mlavalle to investigate what makes dvr gate job failing with 25% rate16:10
mlavalleihrachys: thanks. I was sick a few days last week16:10
ihrachysclarkb: thanks for bringing up, we will have a look16:11
ihrachysmlavalle: np, get well16:11
ihrachys#action ihrachys explore why bug 1532809 bubbled into top in e-r16:11
openstackbug 1532809 in OpenStack Compute (nova) liberty "Gate failures when DHCP lease cannot be acquired" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1532809 - Assigned to Sean Dague (sdague)16:11
ihrachysnext was "ajo to chase down fullstack 100% failure rate due to test_dscp_qos_policy_rule_lifecycle failures"16:11
ihrachysalso jlibosva was going to help ajo16:12
ihrachysjlibosva: any progress?16:12
jlibosvaihrachys: yes16:12
manjeetsI may sound dumb asking that question can some explain a bit what is e-r ?16:12
jlibosvaI started looking at it like hour-ish ago :)16:12
jlibosvaIt got broken by https://review.openstack.org/#/c/38032916:12
jlibosvaI suspect that delete_dscp doesn't work with native driver16:12
ihrachysmanjeets: elastic-recheck, it's a tool that captures failure patterns in logs and reports in gerrit, on elastic recheck webui, and in irc16:12
jlibosvaI'm just trying a local run and I'm about to send a simple patch to verify the fullstack fix16:13
manjeetsohk thanks ihrachys16:13
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ihrachysjlibosva: niiice16:13
jlibosvaI need to make sure that's really it, I didn't give it much love yet16:14
ihrachysjlibosva: I wonder why we have different API for drivers16:14
jlibosvayeah ...16:14
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ihrachysstill this is a nice step to check if that fixes the issue16:14
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ihrachysif so, we can look at making them consistent16:14
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jlibosvathere is also a constant failure in securitygroups for linuxbridge16:15
jlibosvaI didn't get a chance to look at that yet16:15
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jlibosvacan be an AI to me till the next meeting ;)16:16
ihrachys#action jlibosva fix delete_dscp for native driver: https://review.openstack.org/44556016:17
ihrachys#action jlibosva to fix remaining fullstack failures in securitygroups for linuxbridge16:17
ihrachyswe are getting closer to stable functional job (it shows normal failure rate now), let's do the same for fullstack16:18
ihrachysnext AI was "ajo to restore and merge patch raising ovsdb native timeout: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/425623/"16:18
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ihrachyswe restored, but now I am not sure16:18
ihrachysas seen on http://grafana.openstack.org/dashboard/db/neutron-failure-rate?panelId=7&fullscreen functional is back to normal16:18
ihrachysand not the old normal, but actual normal16:18
ihrachysits failure rate is less than -api job that is considered rather stable and is voting16:19
ihrachysso I am not sure we should land the timeout bump16:19
jlibosvaI would go for it16:20
jlibosvaas the worst that can happen is that some actions might take longer before failing16:20
jlibosvaif transaction is successful, it won't be longer16:20
ihrachysbut doesn't it open door wider for performance regressions16:22
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jlibosvayou mean that if we make a change that would create a longer transaction it would fail for us in gate while with higher timeout it would get pass?16:24
ihrachysyeah. we will catch it a lot later when we pile up more regressions on top16:24
ihrachysat the point when it may be harder to unravel things16:25
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jlibosvamaybe we can close the bug and discuss this on the review with pros and cons16:26
ihrachysI also want to get back to the question of voting for the job in several weeks16:26
ihrachysassuming we prove it's stable16:26
ihrachysok let's discuss further in gerrit16:27
ihrachysnext AI was "anilvenkata_afk to track inclusion of HA+DVR patch for devstack-gate"16:27
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jlibosvaihrachys: you mean putting functional to gate queue?16:27
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ihrachysjlibosva: yes16:28
jlibosvaor talking about fullstack16:28
ihrachyswe told we want it stable and voting?16:28
ihrachysmaybe just check, we'll see16:28
ihrachysbut voting16:28
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ihrachysehm, sorry, I mix things :)16:28
ihrachysyes, gate queue16:28
jlibosvagot it :)16:28
ihrachysfor fullstack, it will be first check voting16:28
ihrachysfor that we need to show weeks of steady stability16:29
ihrachysonly time will tell if we can do that16:29
ihrachysok back to HA+DVR job16:29
ihrachysthe patch is still sitting there: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/383827/16:29
ihrachyswe may want clarkb and other infra gurus to chime in16:30
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ihrachysI see clarkb +2d it in the past16:30
clarkbI can rereview16:30
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ihrachys#action anilvenkata to follow up on HA+DVR job patches16:31
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ihrachysthere was a test failure in the new ha-dvr job, probably because of the new topology used16:32
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ihrachysI assume Anil will look at it once we have infra side done16:32
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ihrachysthough actually, since devstack-gate is part of the same queue, we don't need to wait, we can start fixing the test runs with depends-on patches16:33
ihrachysgotta check with Anil on his plans16:34
ihrachysand, that was it for action items from the previous week16:34
ihrachyslet's move on16:34
ihrachys#topic Action items from PTG16:34
*** openstack changes topic to "Action items from PTG (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)"16:34
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ihrachysthe prev meeting, we covered most of them16:34
ihrachysthe only thing that was left behind is python3 strategy16:35
ihrachysduring ptg, we decided there should be a bunch of jobs that should transfer to py316:35
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ihrachysI believe functional and fullstack were in short list16:35
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ihrachysalso we need some tempest job switched to py316:36
ihrachysjlibosva: what's the plan?16:36
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jlibosvayes, I believe functional, fullstack and full-tempest makes most sense. I don't think we have any blueprint or bug where we can track the effort16:37
jlibosvaso I'm gonna create some16:37
jlibosvaand same for tempest split16:37
ihrachysjlibosva: which full-tempest?16:37
ihrachysI think we have several16:37
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ihrachysthere is one all-in-one, and two multinodes16:38
ihrachys(which are 2nodes really)16:38
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jlibosvabut none of multinode are voting, are they?16:39
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ihrachysand that's a shame16:40
ihrachysbut consider that the single node one is part of integrated gate16:40
ihrachysso it wouldn't be a neutron only decision to switch it16:40
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ihrachysand I suspect it wouldn't go smooth16:40
jlibosvahmm, I need to update myself on that, I see we already have some py35 tempest: http://logs.openstack.org/29/380329/24/check/gate-tempest-dsvm-py35-ubuntu-xenial/4ed1870/logs/testr_results.html.gz16:41
ihrachysjlibosva: it's not working16:41
ihrachysbecause swift is not really compatible16:41
ihrachysand devstack attempts to execute it as py316:41
ihrachysI think that's going to be tackled with https://review.openstack.org/#/c/439108/16:42
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ihrachysbut so far it doesn't move anywhere16:42
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jlibosvaso what does the job run?16:43
ihrachysit runs everything that devstack determines as py3 compat in py316:44
ihrachysand there was a hack in devstack that enforced py3 for swift16:44
ihrachysthat was honestly totally wrong16:44
ihrachysbecause they have py3 SyntaxErrors in their code, not to mention it was never tried16:45
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ihrachysanyhoo, let's leave AI on you and move on16:46
ihrachys#action jlibosva to figure out the plan for py3 gate transition and report back16:46
ihrachysthere will also be some CI related work once we get to switch to lib/neutron: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:new-neutron-devstack-in-gate and mod_wsgi16:47
ihrachysone other thing than I wanted to raise is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/439114/16:47
ihrachysmanjeets: what's the status of the dashboard patch? are you going to respin it?16:47
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manjeetsihrachys, yes16:48
ihrachysI was thinking, maybe we should squash that with existing neutron review dashboard16:48
ihrachyshaving a single tool may make more sense16:48
manjeetsyes that make sense since some of existing method can be used as well16:48
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manjeetsjust creating a new section for all gate patches in existing dashboard16:49
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ihrachys#action manjeets respin https://review.openstack.org/#/c/439114/ to include gate-failure reviews into existing dashboard16:49
ihrachysanother thing I wanted to note is that we made some progress on the path to index functional and fullstack logs in logstash16:50
ihrachyswe now generate a -index.txt file with all INFO+ messages in each gate run16:51
jlibosvaihrachys: good job :)16:51
ihrachysthe only missing bit is actually updating logstash config to index it16:51
ihrachysI hope to get infra review it today16:51
ihrachysclarkb: maybe you have +2 there too? system-config ^16:51
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ihrachysspeaking of more logs collected, another stalled work is collecting info on mlock-consuming processes: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:collect-mlock-stats-in-gate16:52
ihrachysI haven't seen oom-killers lately. is it just my perception?16:53
* jlibosva hasn't checked the status16:53
clarkbihrachys: ya I can look a tthat too16:53
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ihrachysok any more topics to raise this time?16:56
jlibosvanot from me16:57
manjeetsnot from me either atm16:58
ihrachysok let's call it a day16:58
ihrachysthanks everyone16:58
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"16:58
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 14 16:58:16 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)16:58
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ci/2017/neutron_ci.2017-03-14-16.00.html16:58
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ci/2017/neutron_ci.2017-03-14-16.00.txt16:58
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ci/2017/neutron_ci.2017-03-14-16.00.log.html16:58
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lbragstad#startmeeting keystone18:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 14 18:00:28 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is lbragstad. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:00
lbragstadping agrebennikov, amakarov, annakoppad, antwash, ayoung, bknudson, breton, browne, chrisplo, cmurphy, davechen, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, edtubill, gagehugo, henrynash, hrybacki, jamielennox, jaugustine, jgrassler, knikolla, lamt, lbragstad, kbaikov, ktychkova, morgan, nishaYadav, nkinder, notmorgan, portdirect raildo, ravelar, rderose, rodrigods, roxanaghe, samueldmq, SamYaple, shaleh, spilla, srwilkers,18:00
lbragstad StefanPaetowJisc, stevemar, topol, shardy, ricolin18:00
lbragstadagenda #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting18:00
henrynashhowdy y’all18:00
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ayoungHey Ho, Lets Go!18:01
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lbragstadalright - we have a lot on the agenda today so let's get started18:03
lbragstad#topic Mascot18:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Mascot (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:03
lbragstadi got an email last week from the foundation asking if we liked our mascot18:03
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lbragstadwe have the opportunity to make changes if we want them18:03
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gagehugoI like the design18:04
lbragstadHeidi, from the foundation, mentioned that someone thought about incorporating a key into the shell of the turtle18:04
lbragstadright now - it's in the shape of a shield18:04
ayoungI thought a keyhole would be more appropriate18:04
* ayoung looks for early prototypes18:05
knikollaayoung: ooo i remember those prototypes18:05
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* notmorgan doesn't wanna.18:05
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notmorgani kinda still like the Keystone Lite logo we had.18:06
notmorganthat said, i don't feel strongly the turtle needs to change18:06
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ayoungnotmorgan, will live forever on our jackets18:06
lbragstaddoes anyone else have things they'd like to incorporated into the logo?18:06
notmorganthe only mascot that i could see on a laptop of mine is the new Ironic one, fwiw.18:06
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lbragstads/to/to see/18:07
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lbragstadalright - i'll give ayoung's feedback to Heidi and if they roll a new version we can vote on it18:08
lbragstad#action lbragstad to give feedback to the foundation and keep team posted on outcomes18:08
lbragstad#topic Upstream training liaison18:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Upstream training liaison (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:08
lbragstadildikov o/18:08
ildikovlbragstad: tnx18:09
ildikovHi All :)18:09
lbragstadildikov and i talked about various upstream training efforts at the PTG18:09
gagehugoildikov o/18:09
ildikovthe plan is to have liaisons from every team18:09
lbragstadildikov but i'll let her give an intro18:09
ildikovboth for the training and to on board new contributors in general18:10
ildikovthe training itself is one and a half days long, interactive and hands-on and that aims to show the first steps to the contributors18:10
ildikovwe are running it before every Summit, the next one will be in Boston, Saturday afternoon and Sunday18:11
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ildikovwe are running a short survey, so students can voice their interest in contribution areas and projects18:11
ildikovwe would like to have coverage for the areas they are interested in on site18:12
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ildikovas for the liaisons, the expectation is that if they can help us with the training material and/or attending the training and help the students that would be great18:13
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lbragstadildikov i know dstanek expressed interest in helping18:13
ildikovlbragstad: sounds great! :)18:13
lbragstadildikov but i assume you wouldn't be opposed to others helping out if they are interested?18:14
ildikovnot at all!18:14
lbragstadildikov you all planning on having a weekly meeting, right?18:14
ildikovthe current volunteers are all enthusiastic people, but we can always use more ideas and help18:14
ildikovwe will soon start the preparation to the Boston Summit and we will look into run weekly meetings18:15
ildikovwe have anew IRC channel: #openstack-university18:15
lbragstadildikov are liaisons expected to be at the Boston forum?18:15
ildikovthis is for mentors, trainers, coaches and anyone who's interested in this activity18:16
ildikovwe are flexible in terms of travel, we will ask the liaisons first especially if there's much interest in the area they cover18:16
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lbragstadthat makes sense18:17
ildikovso someone can still be a liaison even if he/she is not able to travel to some of the trainings18:17
rodrigodsi'm already mentor for other internship programs18:17
rodrigodsi can help here as well18:17
lbragstadrodrigods ++18:18
rodrigodsmostly with material18:18
ildikovwe are also in discussion with a few OpenStack Days event organizers who would like to run a one day long version of the training18:18
ildikovrodrigods: sounds great, thanks!18:18
knikollai'm based in boston, if the liason won't be able to attend for keystone i can fill in18:18
ildikovso we will also ask help from the liaisons/teams to find local people for these smaller events18:18
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ildikovknikolla: great, thank you!18:19
ildikov#link https://docs.openstack.org/upstream-training/ - this is the training website, we will start to update it soon:18:19
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ildikov#link ttps://etherpad.openstack.org/p/upstream-training-team - this is the list of volunteers and so far identified liaisons18:20
lbragstad#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/upstream-training-team18:20
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ildikovwe will use [os-university] as ML tag18:20
ildikovso if any of you would be interested in helping out just add yourself to the etherpad and look for the tag on the ML for news and also jump on the IRC channel I posted above18:21
ildikovalso feel free to ping me anytime if you have questions18:21
lbragstadildikov awesome - thanks for all the information18:21
ildikovI can give more updates, but I don't want to hijack the whole meeting now :)18:22
ildikovlbragstad: thanks for the opportunity and support!18:22
lbragstadildikov anytime, i'm happy to see the involvement here (thanks rodrigods knikolla)18:22
ildikovthank you all!18:23
lbragstadildikov thanks!18:23
lbragstad#topic VMT Update: keystonemiddleware diagram and docs18:23
*** openstack changes topic to "VMT Update: keystonemiddleware diagram and docs (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:23
lbragstadknikolla gagehugo18:23
lbragstadyou both started working on this as a result of last weeks meeting - how are things going?18:23
gagehugoknikolla and I made a first draft for an architecture diagram for keystonemiddleware: http://i.imgur.com/1KIUsRh.png18:24
ayoungwhat is a VMT?  I thought that was the state I passed through to get to Canada?18:24
lbragstad#link http://i.imgur.com/1KIUsRh.png18:24
lbragstadayoung vulnerability management team18:24
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lbragstadwe need to initiate a security analysis of all identity projects to get coverage18:25
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ayoungOK, makes sense now18:25
lbragstadgagehugo knikolla have either of you been able to get through to the security folks?18:25
lbragstadcc unrahul ^18:25
gagehugolbragstad: wanted to double check with keystone people first about the accuracy of the diagram18:26
lbragstadgagehugo and just do double check - this is only targeting keystonemiddleware initially18:26
unrahulgagehugo:  may be you can initiate the review by starting a gerrit review against security-analysis repo18:26
bknudson_do we have the ability to encrypt the memcache data?18:27
gagehugounrahul sure18:27
unrahulSo that security community may also coment18:27
unrahulthanks gagehugo18:27
ayoungbknudson_, I swore we had that at some point18:27
gagehugobknudson_ that would be something we should note then if that's the case18:27
lbragstadi know the ksm caching implementation is different than that of oslo.cache18:27
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lbragstad#link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/keystonemiddleware/tree/keystonemiddleware/auth_token/_cache.py#n24318:29
ayounglass SecureTokenCache(TokenCache):18:29
notmorganalso, a service can pass a cache handle to ksm18:30
ayoungmake that class SecureTokenCache(TokenCache):18:30
notmorgan(like swift)18:30
gagehugoah ok18:30
knikollalooks like the answer is yes18:30
notmorganand ksm will use that cache handle/connection to do the lifting as well18:30
bknudson_ok, might be useful to put cache encryption into the diagram (the key is in the config file)18:31
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gagehugowill do!18:31
lbragstadsounds like also need to open a review to the security repo18:32
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lbragstadone other thing about the diagram is that it might be easier to read if we numbered the steps18:33
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gagehugoah, yeah the process tutorial does that18:33
gagehugobasically provide a walkthrough then I assume18:34
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lbragstadthe diagram has arrows in it the denote some sort of flow18:34
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knikollathe arrows denote the initiator of the communication18:36
lbragstadlooks like there are arrows here #link https://openstack-security.github.io/collaboration/2016/01/16/threat-analysis.html18:36
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knikollaand numbers also. cool, we'll update the diagram.18:37
lbragstadawesome - thanks again18:37
lbragstadwe can keep reviewing offline18:37
lbragstadgagehugo knikolla did either of you have anything else on VMT?18:37
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gagehugoI think that is it for now?  We can open a review and see what to do from there (after we update the diagram)18:38
lbragstaddo you want me to keep the topic on the agenda for next week?18:38
knikollaif it's a light agenda18:38
gagehugolbragstad: sure18:38
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lbragstadknikolla gagehugo sounds good18:38
lbragstadthanks guys, let's move on18:38
lbragstad#topic Pike specs18:38
*** openstack changes topic to "Pike specs (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:38
lbragstadwe have several specs in the works18:38
lbragstadfigured we could use a little time during today's meeting to work through them18:39
lbragstada couple of them are close18:39
lbragstad#topic Pike specs: API keys18:39
*** openstack changes topic to "Pike specs: API keys (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:39
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lbragstadrderose o/18:39
lbragstad#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/438761/18:39
rderoseWe discussed this at the PTG, the problem: users storing their username/password in configuration files for their scripts / 3rd party tools.18:39
rderoseInstead allow users to create access key credentials with limited scope (subset of their roles).18:39
rderoseThe key would be used like a password credential; thus, used to request a scoped token.18:39
rderoseThe questions we've been discussing is, should we instead, treat the keys more like bearer tokens where you could use the key to make an API call and not have to request a scoped token.18:40
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bretonwill it replace service users' username/password18:40
lbragstaddstanek has an alternate spec proposed - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/440593/118:40
rderosebreton: yes18:40
lbragstadbreton yes - that would be the intent18:40
gagehugorderose: the key would be scoped then I assume?18:40
bretonoh well.18:40
rderosegagehugo: yes18:40
bretoni wonder how many people it is going to break18:40
rderosebreton: shouldn't break anyone18:41
rderoseusername/password will still work18:41
lbragstadbreton i assume we will gracefully switch18:41
lbragstadi don't expect it to break anyone18:41
bretonbecause it broke people when we moved to plugins18:41
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lbragstadwe should just encourage people to deploy service users more securely18:41
bknudson_not having to request a scoped token is follow-on work.18:41
rderosebknudson_: ++18:42
lbragstadthe big different between rderose's approach and dstanek's approach that I see is that one treats api keys like credentials and one treats it like a token18:42
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lbragstadin one you use the api key to *get* a token and in the other you use the api key *as* the token18:43
bretonmaybe we should continue the x509 stuff that gyee started some time ago18:43
bretonit has code ready on the server side18:43
lbragstadbreton what's left to do there?18:43
bretonand the only thing that was missing is auth plugins18:43
bretoni remember i could validate a token with it18:44
lbragstadbreton does x509 allow you to delegate subsets of roles?18:44
bretonlbragstad: i don't remember, probably no.18:44
bretonbut... we have trusts to delegate subset of roles18:44
lbragstadwe'd have to find a way to get that in there in order for it to be on par with the direction of API keys18:45
bknudson_we could have a header for the roles to include in the token18:45
bknudson_(then we'd have to store the roles in the fernet token)18:45
lbragstadrderose the other difference between dstanek's approach and yours is that he requires the roles in the API key to be a subset18:46
rderoselbragstad: I see, but I'm not sure why that has to be a hard requirement18:46
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lbragstadi think dstanek is out today :(18:47
lbragstadit would be nice to have him here for this discussion18:47
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rderoseand I like the approach of request a scope token for now (far less complicated)18:47
rderoseand not request a scoped token as future work18:47
rderosethe approach will solve the use case in the spec18:47
lbragstadyeah - i guess it depends on what we want this to look like eventually18:48
lbragstadwe could implement it with using api key as an authentication method/auth plugin18:49
notmorganhonestly, i prefer the model where you don't exchange the API key for a token18:49
lbragstadnotmorgan so a traditional api key18:49
notmorganbecause that mirrors more accurately what an API-Key in other areas of the industry ends up being18:49
notmorganit is a lot more work to make happen18:49
notmorganchanges to KSA, to KSM, and Keystone18:49
notmorganvs just changes to Keystone18:49
notmorganand an auth-plugin for KSA18:50
notmorganyou will likely still need to support API-Key for Token18:50
rderosenotmorgan: I think we can get there, but yeah, to start API-key for token18:50
lbragstadif we use api access as an auth plugin, then i'd say we need to name it something different than API key (we can call it whatever we want)18:50
lbragstadi just don't want to accidentally advertise API keys when that's not what they are18:51
notmorgani would really prefer to never implement api-key for tokne that is18:51
rderosenotmorgan: ah18:51
notmorganand yes do not name it "api-key" as the auth method18:51
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rderosecurrently, I've named it 'access-key'18:51
notmorgancan we call it something totally not related...18:51
notmorganmake up a word18:51
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notmorganknikolla: veto ;)18:52
notmorganif we can avoid api-key-for-token it would be much better. however......18:53
notmorgandiscovery/catalog would still be needed.18:53
bknudson_could we pass the api key in the password?18:53
notmorganbknudson_: in theory18:53
notmorganbut that is something i don't wnat18:53
henrynashwhat’s the rush that means we can’t do the work for a real api key?18:53
notmorganif we can avoid it18:53
lbragstadwe tried to do something like that with TOTP18:54
notmorgannow... let me say this clearly18:54
notmorganSince i am not going to implement this, my view is pretty much just a "what makes sense and mirrors the industry"18:54
lbragstadnotmorgan so - take the long road and do real api keys?18:55
bknudson_I'm going to need to talk to keystone to get the service catalog.18:55
notmorganAPI-Key should be used directly in lieu of the keystone-tokne, it should be a subset of roles, and should require an expiration on creation (where 0, or -1 is "never"). it should be revokable by the user.18:55
rderosenotmorgan: I hear you, but...  this would solve the use case and it doesn't prevent us from extending this in the future18:55
notmorganrderose: if we don't ever want real api-keys. do it as an exchange for token18:56
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notmorganrderose: don't do a short-cut because "it solves the case but is easier" unless that is the mechanism you really want people to use18:56
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lbragstadthen it would be an application specific password - right?18:56
notmorganremember, once it is implemented, it is in keystone *forever* effectively18:56
notmorganlbragstad: pretty much18:57
notmorgani'm fine with application-specific passwords18:57
notmorganits a very different UX than api-keys18:57
notmorganwhat are we aiming to solve? application-specific-passwords, API-Keys, a specific use-case that is agnostic to that, etc18:57
lbragstadanother question - for the development cost, what's going to give users and operators more bang for their buck?18:58
rderosenotmorgan: we're aiming to solve having users put there usernames/passwords in config files which has access to all of the user's roles18:59
notmorganapplication-specific password would then use trusts *as well* for subsets of roles18:59
rderosenotmorgan: there isn't really an industry standard around access/api keys18:59
* breton whispers about time19:00
notmorgando not lump in a new special password-thing that works totally different from current passwords, if it works like passwords19:00
notmorganuse "trusts" in that case.19:00
lbragstadbreton thanks19:00
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lbragstadand we're out of time, let's take this to -keystone19:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 14 19:00:32 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-03-14-18.00.html19:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-03-14-18.00.txt19:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-03-14-18.00.log.html19:00
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clarkbfungi: is it time?19:01
fungiinfra team, i summon you19:01
fungiso it seems19:01
* jeblair arrives with sandwich19:02
cmurphyhi o/19:02
fungibehold, this week we have action items assigned to and topics proposed by pabelanger, jeblair, clarkb19:02
fungi#startmeeting infra19:03
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 14 19:03:39 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:03
fungi#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting19:03
fungi#topic Announcements19:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)"19:04
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fungii don't have any this week19:04
fungias always, feel free to hit me up with announcements you want included in future meetings19:04
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fungi#topic Actions from last meeting19:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:04
fungi#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-03-07-19.01.htm19:05
fungipabelanger to send ML post to get more feedback on our current run-tox playbooks / role19:05
fungii want to say i read it cover to cover19:05
jeblairfungi: then say it!19:06
fungi#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2017-March/005230.html Feedback requested for tox job definition19:06
fungilooks done to me19:06
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fungipabelanger: per yesterday's zuul meeting, you're no longer blocked on that, right?19:07
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pabelangerfungi: right, we are merged19:07
fungi#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zuul/2017/zuul.2017-03-13-22.02.log.html#l-120 Status updates: Zuul sample jobs19:08
fungi#topic Specs approval: PROPOSED Zuul v3: remove references to swift (jeblair)19:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval: PROPOSED Zuul v3: remove references to swift (jeblair) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:08
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fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/443984 Zuul v3: remove references to swift19:09
jeblairoh thanks19:09
jeblairi was looking for that link under my sandwich19:09
jeblairthis is pretty short.  we talked about it at the ptg, and a little in irc since then19:10
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jeblairthe gist is that we think sending logs to swift is a thing people will still probably want to do, but we don't need built-in support in zuul for it19:10
fungiany feel for whether there are downstreams relying on that feature?19:10
jeblairso we can drop that from the spec, and later add it back to what we're calling the 'standard library'19:10
fungiahh, right, can just be in a role/playbook19:10
fungiseems entirely non-contentious to me19:11
fungianyone object to opening council voting on this until 19:00 utc thursday?19:11
jeblairi think based on informal conversations, it's ready for vote19:11
fungi#info Council voting is open on "Zuul v3: remove references to swift" until 19:00 UTC Thursday, March 1619:12
fungilooks like it also depends on some silly whitespace fixes19:12
jeblairthey are absolutely critical.19:12
fungiwhich are now approved19:13
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fungi#topic Specs approval: PROPOSED Zuul v3: update job trees to graphs (jeblair)19:13
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*** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval: PROPOSED Zuul v3: update job trees to graphs (jeblair) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:13
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/443985 Zuul v3: update job trees to graphs19:14
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jeblairthis also has a follup clarification which i don't think needs its own vote, but it may be helpful to look at it since it makes the example more clear19:14
jeblair#link https://review.openstack.org/445022 Zuulv3: clarify job dependencies example19:14
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jeblairthis one is substantial -- it changes the job and project-pipeline definition syntax19:15
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jeblairit also has an implementation based on a patch which was proposed to the master branch some time ago19:15
jeblairso you can see it in action19:15
fungiwhile a small part of me feels like this is scope creep, it was apparently stated that this would be a part of zuul v3 and as it's basically already written, i don't see any reason to object19:15
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jeblairyeah, we probably should have put at least a placeholder in the spec earlier to say "we're going to do this but we don't know what the syntax will look like yet".  sorry about that.19:16
jeblairbefore v3.0 is definitely the time to do this though, since it's a major configuration syntax change.  we won't have any users left if we put them through two of those.19:17
fungiright, that's the best argument in favor for me. much harder to do after the big bang syntax change19:17
fungianyone object to opening council voting on this until 19:00 utc thursday?19:17
jeblair(the main thing to note in the spec update is that we lose the ability to structure jobs in a yaml tree.  so you don't *visually* see the dependencies in the config file.  but you are able to express them fairly easily, and of course it allows more topologies than before.)19:18
clarkbno objection here. I think i have already voted positively on this one19:18
fungi#info Council voting is open on "Zuul v3: update job trees to graphs" until 19:00 UTC Thursday, March 1619:19
fungiseemed pretty consensual in the zuul subteam meeting yesterday anyway19:19
fungi#topic Priority Efforts19:19
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Meeting topic: infra)"19:19
fungii don't see any specific updates/blockers for these called out in the agenda19:20
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fungii know that the task tracker and zuul v3 work are proceeding, and zaro was inquiting about some of the testing prerequisites for the gerrit upgrade just before the meeting19:20
fungiat some point we likely need to revisit the ansible puppet apply spec and see whether whatever's remaining on it is still a priority19:21
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fungi#topic Zuulv3 sample jobs (pabelanger)19:22
*** openstack changes topic to "Zuulv3 sample jobs (pabelanger) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:22
fungiis this a holdover from last week?19:22
fungilooks like the thing which spawned the action item19:23
pabelangerit is, sorry for not deleting it from the wiki19:23
fungino problem, sorry for not cleaning up the agenda )or paying close enough attention to last week's meeting minutes)19:23
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fungi#topic Plan sprint for getting off precise. Should happen within the next month or so. (clarkb)19:23
*** openstack changes topic to "Plan sprint for getting off precise. Should happen within the next month or so. (clarkb) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:23
fungithis looks fresh, or at least worth rediscussing19:23
clarkbone of the things we siad pre ptg was that we should have a sprint to finish up the precise cleanup (and possibly work on xenialification)19:24
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clarkbprecise EOL is a month away or so so we should work on that19:24
pabelangeryes, we talked a little about this last week in open discussions19:24
pabelangerthanks for bringing it up again19:24
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clarkbah ok, I missed last week (I guess i hsould've checked logs)19:25
clarkbwas a time frame selected? I think we likely need at least several days19:25
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pabelangerno, we didn't select a date19:25
clarkbI'm basically wide open between now and summit (no planned travel)19:26
fungii won't be able to pitch in a week from tomorrow (wednesday the 22nd) as i have a prior obligation which will occupy most of my day19:26
fungiaside from that i don't have any more travel until april 10th19:26
pabelangerI should be good anytime between now and summit19:26
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pabelangerno travel on the books19:27
clarkbmaybe we can target next week and just deal with fungi being out :)19:27
clarkbI think sooner we start working on this the better19:27
fungialmost a month with no travel for me--quite thrilled19:27
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jeblairdo we have a list handy?19:27
fungiwell, i'm only out one day. i'll happily work on it the rest of the week if that's the plan19:27
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ianwi'm around (in au time) and happy to help on this too19:28
clarkbI don't have a list handy, but shouldn't be had to get one from ansible/puppet?19:28
jeblairmight be helpful to estimate how many days19:29
clarkbgood point19:29
* fungi remembers the days when he could just pull that up in puppetboard19:29
clarkbfungi: me too :(19:29
fungispeaking of servers still running on precise...19:29
fungi(for some definitions of "running in this case)19:29
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clarkbhttps://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-infra-distro-upgrade-plans found our old etherpad19:30
fungiperfect. if anybody's deployed anything at all on precise since then, they're clearly not paying attention19:30
fungiwiki can come off that list19:30
clarkblists, static, planet, puppetd, wiki, zuul. And pretty sure soe of those are done19:31
fungizuul is now trusty, just checked19:31
clarkbstatic is done too19:31
fungiso that brings us to lists, planet and puppetdb (puppetboard)19:32
clarkband I checked those all are precise19:32
jeblairis puppetdb still useful?19:32
fungiit's so very, very broken19:32
clarkbplanet wants an upgrade to xenial iirc19:32
clarkbjeblair: I think if the service could be made to work yes19:32
pabelangerci-backup according to site.pp19:32
pabelangerjeblair: not to me19:32
fungipabelanger: oh, i think there is an upgraded one for that which hasn't been switched into production yet?19:33
clarkbjeblair: the use case we need from something like it is reporting to humans that are not roots so they cansee when their changes happen19:33
pabelangerfungi: not sure, site.pp just lists precise19:33
jeblairclarkb: but only if they look quickly, before the next 10 runs19:33
clarkbjeblair: yes. Not sure puppetboard is the best way to solve that problem. But its the problem we'd like to have solved19:34
fungiwell, in this case i say it's "not useful" because it's completely and thoroughly offline for a year or more now19:34
jeblairi vote we drop it.  i'd love the use case to be handled, but we should stop pretending it is.  :|19:34
fungiperpetual "internal server error"19:34
fungiyeah, i won't object to someone redeploying it and getting it working, we can keep the config management around for it19:34
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fungibut it's not like deleting the current precise host it's un-running on will be a regression19:35
clarkbso mostly lists and planet then19:35
fungiyup. lists is tricksy because we'll need to defer inbound messages on a secondary mx (ideally) while we test out the replacement with copied (migrated?) data19:36
pabelangerinterwebs not great for me currently19:36
fungiplanet should be a relative non-event since there's no persistent data. just need to get it working (on xenial i guess?) and then switch dns19:37
clarkbfungi: jeblair (email noob here) couldn't we set up a second MX record for ne whost with higher priority which would cause senders to fall back on existing host until ne whost existed?19:37
clarkbis problem in syncing the data in mailmain?19:38
jeblairfungi: well, we don't really need a secondary mx if the downtime is small (say < 30m).19:38
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fungii'm not sure the term "sprint" is really applicable here, but we do need one or (preferably) more people carefully planning the lists switch and then pre-testing the replacement19:38
jeblairsending servers don't usually generate bounces for connection errors until they persist a while19:38
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fungiright, holding the inbound queue on a secondary mx would really only be necessary if we can't make the switch (including dns propagation) happen in a reasonably short timeframe19:39
jeblairbut if we did want no interruption in mx service, we could probably just have the existing one queue and then deliver to the new host.19:39
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jeblairdownside for that is it's an extra bit of mta configuration that needs its own testing19:40
fungitrue, and that's only a few lines of exim config19:40
fungibut right, we'd probably want to test it somewhere else beforehand19:40
clarkbI think we can take a few minutes downtime for queuing19:40
jeblairthe worst part of this is that we will lose our ip and its reputation19:41
fungiso maybe we should just take volunteers to work on the planet replacement and to work on the lists replacement and maintenance plan?19:41
clarkband worst worst case some small number of people might need to resend their emails?19:41
clarkbjeblair: we could try an upgrade in place...19:42
jeblairyeah.  we can practice with snapshots.19:42
fungiit worked reasonably well for the wiki server19:42
fungiand while that would preserve our ip address, it's fairly out of character for us to upgrade that way19:43
clarkbhaving had ubuntu lts' installs upgraded in place over years it ends up being pretty messy19:43
fungibut worth considering nonetheless19:43
clarkbbut functional19:43
clarkbjeblair: how important is that reputation? do you expect we will end up being rejected by a bunch of MXes if we change IPs?19:44
fungiworth noting, i strongly suspect a redeploy from scratch will end up renotifying all the listadmins in the lists class manifest about their lists being created (along with the default listadmin password)19:45
ianwprobably depends on who had that IP before :)19:45
jeblairclarkb: it would not surprise me if it took a few days or a week to settle out.19:45
fungiyeah, quite the gamble19:45
jeblairrackspace's vetting usually means we're not getting spammer ips, but still.19:45
fungi#link https://www.senderbase.org/lookup/?search_string=lists.openstack.org19:46
ianwi can take bringing up a xenial planet if you like;  i maintained a planet in a previous life19:46
clarkbso probably worht testing the inplace upgrade with a snapshot then?19:46
fungiemail rep. is "good" for both ipv4 and ipv6 addresses19:46
fungiianw: awesome, pleia2 indicated it should be viable on xenial, we just weren't quite ready to run xenial servers yet at that time19:47
jeblairyeah, i'm thinking in-place may be worth trying for this.19:47
fungino objection here19:47
pabelangerworth a try19:47
fungi#action ianw try booting a Xenial-based replacement for planet.openstack.org19:47
ianwit's pretty much the same mailman version right?19:48
fungi#agreed We'll attempt an in-place upgrade of lists.openstack.org from Precise to Trusty, practicing on instance snapshots beforehand19:48
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clarkbianw: yes precise -> trusty mailman is baically the same19:48
fungi#link http://packages.ubuntu.com/mailman19:48
clarkb2.1.14 -> 2.1.1619:49
ianwyep, that's good, not also shoehorning a v3 upgrade on top :)19:49
fungilast news i read, mmv3 is still in a questionable state19:49
ianwyeah, that was what i thought too, with all the configuration being quite different19:50
clarkbis that something people will be able to work on soon?19:50
clarkbany volunteers to work on mailman? I can help there but am definitely not an email expert19:50
fungiif we're already incurring the pain on precise->trusty, do we want to follow that with a trusty->xenial in short order? anybody remember which release got the dmarc workaround patches?19:50
jeblairclarkb: i will volunteer to help19:51
clarkbfungi: I think we may want to do a single in place upgrade, evaluate how that went. Then decide from there if we want to d oa second to xenial19:51
fungi#link https://wiki.list.org/DEV/DMARC says 2.1.26 added frim_is_list19:51
jeblairbetter yet, i *do* volunteer to help19:51
openstackRemoving item from minutes: #link https://wiki.list.org/DEV/DMARC19:51
fungi#link https://wiki.list.org/DEV/DMARC says 2.1.16 added frim_is_list19:51
clarkbfungi: oh 2.1.16 is what precise has so maybe thats less urgent?19:52
fungiso trusty should get us dmarc-related options without needing to consider xenial quite yet19:52
fungi2.1.18 added some more stuff though per that wiki19:52
clarkb(I think we should also work to xenialify in the near future too, but don't want to make the goalposts to far ahead since precise is eol real soon now)19:52
fungixenial would get us 2.1.2019:52
jeblairto be honest, i'm not sure we should enable that option19:53
fungii too am fine with sticking to our guns on ignoring dmarc19:53
fungisome listservs i've got subscriptions on have decided to unsubscribe and block subscribers from affected domains instead19:53
fungiwell, block posts from19:53
jeblairthat is appropriate and consistent with what those domains have expressed as their policy via dmarc.19:54
jeblairi'm intrigued by the 2.1.18 dmarc behaviors.  i'll have to think about that a bit.19:54
fungiyea, half the blame is on dmarc-asserting domains for not telling their users they shouldn't post to mailing lists, and the other half on dmarc-validating mtas on ignoring the incompleteness which is dmarc19:55
jeblairi'm going to spend the rest of the day trying to shoehorn "systemdmarc" into a sentence somehow.19:56
fungiso anyway, i can volunteer to help on the lists.o.o stuff too (i feel fairly confident with its cil utilities, pickle file manipulating tool and archive filesystem layout), though i worry i don't have time to drive the effort19:56
fungijeblair: i'm sure lennart already has a plan for that one19:57
clarkbdo we wnat to pick a specific time next week to work on this further or let volunteers poke at it as they are able?19:57
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clarkbI guess jeblair and ianw can grab fungi and me for help as needed and go from there?19:58
fungior is there any other infra-root who wants to gain a deeper understanding for mailman?19:58
fungithere's nothing like the stress of an upgrade to hammer home key concepts ;)19:58
* Shrews hides in the darkest corner19:58
jeblairfungi, clarkb: maybe let's poke at it as able, but plan on spending thurs-fri next week making real headway if we don't before then?19:58
clarkbjeblair: ++19:58
fungijeblair: i'm happy to commit to that19:59
ianware we defaulting to rax as a provider for these hosts?19:59
ianwwell clearly the inplace upgrade stays19:59
clarkbianw: for lists yes due to IP19:59
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jeblair(hopefully that gives us some time to asynchronously make some snapshots, etc).  maybe keep an etherpad with a work log.19:59
fungithat's a good question we don't have time to answer in the next 30 seconds19:59
clarkbplanet could potentially be hosted by vexxhost?19:59
fungii'm fine with that idea19:59
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jeblairno objections to planet vexxhost19:59
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fungiobviously the plan for lists.o.o is rackspace for now since we're doing in-place20:00
fungiand we're out of time20:00
fungithanks everyone!20:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 14 20:00:17 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-03-14-19.03.html20:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-03-14-19.03.txt20:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-03-14-19.03.log.html20:00
fungiall yours, tc20:00
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fungiwhy, thank you, infra!20:00
ttxdhellmann, dims, flaper87, mordred, stevemar: around ?20:00
* edleafe finds a comfortable chair20:01
ttxmtreinish is on a plane, or sleeping, or both20:01
ttxthingee is out too20:01
sdagueon a plane, he got out before the snow storm in NY20:01
ttx#startmeeting tc20:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 14 20:01:24 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"20:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'20:01
ttxHi everyone!20:01
* lbragstad finds the next most comfy chair next to edleafe 20:01
ttxOur agenda for today is at:20:01
* mugsie lurks20:01
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee20:01
ttxWe have three big sections20:01
ttx#topic New working groups20:01
*** openstack changes topic to "New working groups (Meeting topic: tc)"20:01
ttxI'm a bit torn on those, as I really don't want to make it look like you need to apply to the TC in order to set up a working group20:02
ttxI mean, anyone should be able to form a group on anything20:02
ttxI get that a formal resolution gives the group some weight though, which is why the Stewardship WG was created from a TC resolution20:02
fungi(and in fact they do, often)20:02
ttxOpinions on that, before we dive in the specific requests ?20:02
sdagueyeh, my feeling is people should just start gathering and doing useful things20:02
dtroyerI generally agree20:02
johnthetubaguyI don't want to make a resolution required20:02
EmilienMttx: I can abandon mine if it makes no sense and just keep Wiki updated20:02
johnthetubaguybut then I do like the TC saying something is important, and needs addressing20:03
sdagueit feels like TC appoval ends up making these look like permanent institutions, vs. people coming together to solve things20:03
fungiany time we create a new list of things in governance, people will want to try to add to it20:03
sdaguefungi: ++20:03
johnthetubaguysdague: thats a good point20:03
dtroyerI guess the question to the authors is "what might make these worth the exception"?20:03
ttxEmilienM: we could maintain a registry of the workgroups but it feels overkill too20:03
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dhellmannI do think there will be cases where we want to "charter" working groups, but both of these cases feel like we could skip that step20:03
johnthetubaguyttx: although the UC was talking about the issues they had without a registry20:03
ttxjohnthetubaguy: ah ?20:03
dhellmanna registry makes a lot of sense to improve discoverability20:04
dtroyera directory?20:04
dhellmannand that doesn't need to be in the governance repo20:04
dtroyerless official sounding20:04
sdagueso, I think the real issues are, if people are coming together to solve a thing: a) how does anyone discover they exist? b) how would one get involved if they wanted to c) what do those folks see as their scope20:04
johnthetubaguythem mentioned at the board meeting, they found it hard having no ... directory I guess20:04
ttxWe could list them on the governance website20:04
fungia registry for the uc is somewhat necessary, as it factors into their electorate20:04
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johnthetubaguyI mean a wiki page would totally work20:04
ttxbut that means extar review20:04
sdaguea wiki page solves it all except discovery20:04
johnthetubaguyfungi: true20:04
ttxWe can point to the wiki page from the governance website20:04
dhellmannwe could link to the wiki from the governance site, or we could share a registry with the uc20:04
ttxavoids crazy reviewing20:04
fungiwould we want to extend separate election privileges to "active" members of these working groups who are not already active technical contributors through other means?20:05
johnthetubaguyttx: yeah was about to type the same20:05
persiaIf the need for a directory is partially driven by UC electorate concerns, might it make sense for the UC to perform the reviews to extend the directory?20:05
dhellmannpersia : the uc has its own working groups20:05
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dtroyerI like the combination of linking to the wiki from governance, it seems to strike the right official vs "just do it balance"20:05
ttxok, let's dive into each specifically20:05
ttx#topic Propose VM and Bare-metal Platform Working Group20:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Propose VM and Bare-metal Platform Working Group (Meeting topic: tc)"20:05
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/44238720:05
ttxjohnthetubaguy: want to introduce this ?20:05
johnthetubaguyso this really is an thing that keep coming up over beer20:06
johnthetubaguyget a group to worry about the VM + baremetal platform20:06
ttxworkgroups: no resolution needed, but beer welcome20:06
johnthetubaguythere are a few problems that keep coming20:06
johnthetubaguymostly user experience related20:07
johnthetubaguyboth in the human and machine case20:07
johnthetubaguyhumans using REST APIs, horizon, etc20:07
ttxsure, feels like a good vehicle to solve inter-project pains within that platform20:07
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fungiit sounds like there are already people who worry about this, so the point is to just provide some rallying point for them?20:07
johnthetubaguyyeah, its more about looking at the whole problem, and priorities between the efforts20:07
ttxfungi: also creates some inter-PTL agreement on priorities20:07
johnthetubaguyone example, I think we should work together to work out what needs to happen at the forum for that set of use cases20:08
dhellmannhow is this group different from the architecture working group?20:08
* jroll sneaks in the back, late20:08
cdenton the topic of having groups be something that involves tc application: a win from that is that it is easier to get support from an employer to spend time on it when it is officially sanctioned20:08
johnthetubaguydhellmann: the main thing here, is the reduced scope20:08
mugsieor API-WG ?20:08
ttxdhellmann: arguably a VM+Baremetal platform focused Arch WG20:08
dhellmanncdent : good point20:08
mugsie(for the eaxmple of humans using a rest API)20:08
dhellmannjohnthetubaguy : how are conflicting decisions between the two groups resolved?20:08
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dimsjohnthetubaguy : how does the TC stamp help? (curious)20:08
johnthetubaguydiscussions between the groups20:09
ttxcdent: could make it worth the pain of maintaining the list as a governance doc, good point20:09
lbragstadwould everything the done by the PWG fall under the umbrella of the API or Arch WG?20:09
johnthetubaguyso the TC stamp here, was more to identify a set of problems that need attention20:09
dhellmanndims : we've had plenty of companies only give permission for folks to work on "official" projects20:09
sdaguejohnthetubaguy: ok, so the API-WG started with a rough plan and 3 people20:09
fungicdent: if it gets employer support to work more upstream, i'm happy to rubber stamp numerous taskforce resolutions ;)20:09
ttxdhellmann: I suspect conflicting decisions don't get solved20:09
dimsdhellmann : ack20:09
johnthetubaguysdague: yep, I think thats what this needs too20:09
sdagueI guess my practical question is who are the key players here besides yourself?20:09
dhellmannttx: or they come up to the tc?20:09
ttxdhellmann: yes20:09
cdent(sorry for making that statement after we had moved on a bit, but I had been pulled away momentarily)20:09
sdaguebecause, I think we still have the johnthetubaguy's not allowed to sign up for more things by himself rule enforced on alternate tuesdays20:10
johnthetubaguysdague: not got commitment from folks yet20:10
johnthetubaguysdague: heh, that should be a thing20:10
dhellmannin the past, we've also said we wanted new groups to show that they're actually doing work before approving them. does that apply to working groups, too?20:10
johnthetubaguydhellmann: that makes sense20:10
sdaguedhellmann: yes please20:11
dims++ dhellmann20:11
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johnthetubaguyso there is one piece that I wanted to check we are in agreement20:11
dhellmannand for the record, I think it's fine to have a group doing this, I just want to work out whatever approval process details we need worked out20:11
sdaguethe last thing I want to see is a ton of shadow governance locks on problems20:11
ttxat the same time I don't want to spend time vetting working groups20:11
dhellmannthat doesn't seem like a good use of our time, no20:12
ttxthey just should not exist if they are not doing things20:12
fungito sdague's point, it would be unfortunate to approve a working group who ends up having no time to commit to the issue at hand, but ends up preventing others who are available from making progress on the same problem space themselves20:12
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sdagueright, which is why I kind of think staying out of blessing is best. It was a long time before the api-wg became "official"20:12
johnthetubaguyso my idea was more to identify these problems need fixing20:12
johnthetubaguya resolution is probably a poor way of doing it20:12
cdentjohnthetubaguy: that list of issues is a good one20:13
johnthetubaguyit feels good if we as the TC can flag those things up20:13
dhellmannit may work better to start a ML thread and ask people who are interested in solving those issues to self-organize20:13
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mugsiedhellmann: ++20:13
sdaguejohnthetubaguy: honestly, I'd be totally happy if we took that list of issues, made an attempt at 1-N prioritization20:13
sdagueand if a collection of people show up to help there, ++20:13
ttxjohnthetubaguy: it feels like you should define your set of issues, start working... and if you need the TC to point to you and say: "that's a good thing" there are a variety of ways to do it20:13
johnthetubaguysdague: who is we in this context20:13
johnthetubaguysdague: yeah, in the working group, if it becomes a thing20:13
dhellmannright, if we need resolutions to codify specific decisions or something, we could do that20:14
sdaguejohnthetubaguy: well, you, and perhaps the TC stamping the issue list20:14
johnthetubaguyttx: yes, I was just wondering if we as a TC should do something to high light the issues, frankly this discussion is probably enough20:14
fungiperhaps simply making the "membership" or working groups fluid is sufficient to allow others to pick up the work without having to get some institutionalized group to relinquish it first?20:14
johnthetubaguysdague: OK, I see what you mean, propose the list, and maybe stamp it, that makes sense20:14
dimsi like the idea of TC saying this stuff needs attention20:14
ttxjohnthetubaguy: you could request some time to present the WG issues to the TC and have some pile of +1s20:14
sdaguebecause I think that's a very good starting point of key issues with the openstack platform20:14
johnthetubaguydims: thats the bit I am wondering about how we would do that20:15
dhellmanniirc, last week the idea of some sort of priority list that wasn't tied to the goals process did come up20:15
sdaguethat aren't horizontal, or vertical, but much more usage based20:15
ttxjohnthetubaguy: just ask for some time at a TC meeting and present*20:15
ttxthen I'm happy to pile it +1s20:15
sdagueand solving any single one of those would make openstack as whole better20:15
dims++ sdague20:15
ttxpile up*20:15
johnthetubaguyso maybe the key bit I am getting here, is "this is not crazy"20:16
ttxwe could also have that list of issues and "delegate" it to wgs20:16
funginot crazy, but maybe we lack the framework to slot this and similar priorities into?20:16
johnthetubaguyI will try run with this to the ML, and see if there is a motley crew keen to work on this20:16
dhellmannoh, yeah, the issue list idea came up with finding ways for new contributors to engage constructively, instead of through typo patches20:16
ttxI basically prefer that we support the WGs rather than bless them20:17
johnthetubaguyI quite like the flagging issues that need solving bit20:17
* fungi certainly doesn't want to have to get ordained20:17
ttxjohnthetubaguy: ok so next step is to raise a ML thread. We can discuss visibility of a WG registry separately20:17
johnthetubaguyyeah, we should move on20:18
dhellmannand then someone needs to start a storyboard list of those issues :-)20:18
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ttx#info Workgroup should get set up on the ML. TC is happy to supprot and encourage the work of the workgroup20:18
jrollI like this20:18
dimsjohnthetubaguy : throw in a etherpad20:18
EmilienMttx: +120:18
ttx#info potential future work: how to maintain list of WGs and ensure discoverability, and a blessed list of high-value targets20:19
ttx#topic Propose Deployment Working Group (DWG)20:19
*** openstack changes topic to "Propose Deployment Working Group (DWG) (Meeting topic: tc)"20:19
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/44276120:19
ttxEmilienM: want to introduce this one ?20:19
EmilienM#action EmilienM to transform https://review.openstack.org/#/c/442761 into a ML thread to communicate about this new WG and what we plan to do20:19
ttxalthough I suspect it will meet the same fate20:19
EmilienMttx: no need to spend time on it IMHO20:20
fungiit's like we just had most of this discussion already! ;)20:20
ttxEmilienM: for the record, I like that workgroup too.20:20
sdaguettx: ++, great start there EmilienM20:20
EmilienMI like the fact you like :)20:20
fungiit seems to already have more or less formed, based on discussions of related topics i've seen on the ml over the past couple weeks20:20
ttxwe need more of those interproject groups20:20
EmilienMfungi: ++ indeed20:20
johnthetubaguyyeah, seems like a good thing to do there too20:20
ttxok, moving on20:21
ttx#topic Describe what upstream support means20:21
*** openstack changes topic to "Describe what upstream support means (Meeting topic: tc)"20:21
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/44060120:21
ttxjohnthetubaguy: you again20:21
dhellmannttx: another justification for some sort of registry may be to know which groups to ask about PTG and Forum space20:21
ttxdhellmann: ack20:21
dhellmannit could still be a wiki page20:21
fungidhellmann: i completely concur there20:21
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johnthetubaguyso this came up in the postgresSQL discussion20:21
johnthetubaguy"supported upstream" is a strange phrase right now20:22
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johnthetubaguyso I attempted to write down some ideas20:22
ttxI like it -- still a bit of polishing work needed20:22
johnthetubaguyseeing some good comments from ttx and dtroyer on there20:22
johnthetubaguyI like the idea of defining the conditions for claiming support20:22
ttxavoids the weird "volunteer" mention20:23
ttx(although I see what you mean by that)20:23
johnthetubaguyI totally stole the phrase from fungi as I couldn't come up with a better one20:23
* dims has not reviewed that yet20:23
fungii still like the word20:23
johnthetubaguyshould we just say "upstream support" then?20:23
johnthetubaguyI also don't really want to get bogged down into listing all the requirements for support20:24
fungivolunteers may refer to the individuals, or to the employers who volunteer their employees' time to participate, after all20:24
johnthetubaguyI was more wanting to baseline on definitions really20:24
ttxjohnthetubaguy: yes, I like we keep it inspirational20:24
johnthetubaguyfungi: totally20:24
dhellmannthis feels a bit like "open source 101"20:24
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ttxfungi: yes -- just know that some people will read it wrong20:25
fungiwe have a disproportionately high number of users (and even contributors) who could use a regular support of "open source 101"20:25
dtroyerunfortunately ++20:25
fungier, regular dose20:25
johnthetubaguydhellmann: maybe, but its good to write down our shared assumptions20:25
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ttxjohnthetubaguy: maybe make it clear that this is nothing new, more of a reminder20:25
dhellmannjohnthetubaguy : oh, I'm not objecting, just making the comment20:25
johnthetubaguyttx: yeah20:26
fungiall those people who think openstack is "like free vmware" are wondering where their support contract is20:26
johnthetubaguydhellmann: very fair comment too20:26
dtroyermore in the spirit of writing down our principles?20:26
johnthetubaguydtroyer: yep20:26
johnthetubaguyon that note, is it really a "definition" rather than a resolution?20:26
ttxjohnthetubaguy: hmm... wondering if it could fit in the project team guide... although I guess it's more directed to specific tactical groups20:26
johnthetubaguyso lives near the principles not the resolutions?20:26
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johnthetubaguyanyways, answers on a postcard, I mean gerrit review comment20:27
ttxjohnthetubaguy: I think it's a statement, not a living document20:27
ttxso I'd rather file it under resolutions/20:27
dhellmannit seems reasonable to have a resolution saying "we're going to delete things when people stop contributing to them"20:27
sdaguedhellmann: yeh20:28
fungii think it's a statement at a point in time (resolution) which could be used to inform future updates to a living document such as principles et cetera20:28
johnthetubaguyttx: OK, I just never like trying to get things correct first time20:28
ttxok, let's iterate on the review20:28
ttxand move on20:28
sdagueor even that we delete things that are considered debt if it helps us move the whole platform forward20:28
ttxjohnthetubaguy: thanks for pushing those20:28
johnthetubaguysdague: didn't want to repeat the standard deprecation tag, but lets see what we come up with20:28
sdaguebecause, I kind of think that's really what's behind the next one...20:28
fungiwhen you prune a shrub, you may lose a few live branches in the process ;)20:28
johnthetubaguysdague: yeah, thats totally why I raised this one20:29
dimsooh, i got to write that down fungi :)20:29
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ttxwhich brings us to....20:29
ttx#topic Deprecate postgresql in OpenStack20:29
*** openstack changes topic to "Deprecate postgresql in OpenStack (Meeting topic: tc)"20:29
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/42788020:29
ttxSo this one is a bit stuck, although the previous resolution will help with it20:29
ttxI think there are multiple ways to slice this one20:29
ttx0/ Make a statement that we'll deprecate it unless there is more consistent upstream work to support it20:29
ttx1/ Pass a resolution now saying it's generally deprecated due to lack of upstream support20:30
ttx2/ Contract the "database" base service to the MySQL family (now or after the deprecation period)20:30
ttx(That last one would signal we can start breaking non-MySQL deployments)20:30
ttxBefore we do (2) I'd like to give people a last chance to step up and save it. Maybe that's my soft side speaking though...20:30
dhellmannhave we had any input at all from Huawei or SuSE?20:30
johnthetubaguyyou know how I said we should find a way to flag problems, how about we just say "the status quo of supporting many databases isn't working"?20:30
ttxAlso before we do (2) I'd prefer non-MySQL numbers to drop below 5% (currently at ~10%)20:30
dhellmannI mean in the sense of their interest in supporting PG?20:30
dtroyerit feels like we've done that already, but not this formally?20:30
dtroyerttx: ^^^20:31
smcginnisMight be better to start with 1, with the statement that 2 will follow.20:31
fungiunder 2/, are we feeling obligated to provide conversion/migration tools or instructions for people switching at upgrade time?20:31
ttxwe haven't done anything formal. I guess the question is should we do (0) or jump directly to (1)20:31
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dhellmannfungi : maybe20:31
ttxthis proposal is basically (1)20:31
dtroyerI would pref to go straight to 1 to help signal "we mean it this time"20:31
johnthetubaguyI don't see deprecation as a one way process, so I am fine with (1)20:31
gordcdhellmann: can we define what 'more consistent upstream work to support it' means?20:31
dimsttx : i vote for (1)20:31
dhellmanngordc : excellent question.20:32
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ttxit feels like more than one person asked "what consistent upstream work means", so (0) seems warranted20:32
johnthetubaguypart of me things part of fixing this problem is digging deep to understand what the real issue is, and enumerate the possible solutions20:32
ttxalthough I wasn't involved in previous iterations of the discussion so I may ignore how many times (0) was already done20:33
dhellmannI also want us to answer clearly yes/no whether we *want* that contribution, or if we're more interested in dropping support than having help with maintenance.20:33
fungii do feel like we're still operating a little on the misconception that it was already broken when we stopped testing it. i stand by the reasons for ceasing testing, but there were no outward complaints of breakage until the issue ceilo hit recently20:33
sdaguedhellmann: right, I think we don't want that contribution20:33
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johnthetubaguydhellmann: I don't think we can, till someone has all the options laid out20:33
dhellmannsdague : how do we determine consensus on that?20:34
johnthetubaguyI think we need to do (1) before we make that decision20:34
dhellmannjohnthetubaguy : aren't the options (1) someone says they will work on gate failures and we support pg or (2) we do not want anyone working on gate failures, pg is going away?20:34
johnthetubaguydhellmann: its more about how you avoid the gate failures in the first place, not working on that seems bad at this point20:35
ttxthat's two different ways of writing (1), for sure20:35
dhellmannjohnthetubaguy, ttx : option 1 presumes we would want support if someone showed up. We should not ask for help if we're going to turn people away.20:35
sdaguemy slightly snark answer to gordc's question is:20:35
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gordcdhellmann: +20:35
sdaguewhen pg folks implement consistent unicode name support for both mysql and pg across the starter kit20:35
dhellmannthe real option 1 seems to be that we do not want to support it because we want to use $features of mysql20:35
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sdaguebecause the issue is that the community has to pay a pg tax on every feature, even if a small one20:36
dimswe have to signal that we are "contracting" the options20:36
johnthetubaguyits more about stopping trying to think about all these different database on every patch, somehow20:36
gordcsdague: cool, i dont know what that issue is personally. but good to have some qualifer20:36
sdagueand saying that pg folks only need to be engaged when it's entirely their platform at issue, instead of helping on general things to pay back that tax20:36
johnthetubaguydims: +1 thats why I want (1) to start the deeper discussions20:36
dhellmannsure, but then let's be honest. it's not about lack of support from anyone in our community, right? it's about a fundamental underlying difference in the database engines.20:36
ttxdims: I don't think we should contract until the alternate option is below 5% though20:36
ttxI mean... open question20:37
sdaguedhellmann: right, it's based on the fact the dev community and operator community largely has the skills knowledge on one backend20:37
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ttxwhat's the adoption bar under which it's fine to contract ?20:37
ttx20% ? 10% ? 5% ?20:37
gordcdhellmann: tbh, i don't think we can accept/support pgsql if there is no gate on it since it's going to be impossible to measure if it's maintained or not.20:37
sdagueand "make it work for this other one too" is a real cost, even just at coming up with base plans20:37
ttxPG is currently ~9% of deploys20:37
dhellmannsdague : are the unicode issues addressable via sqlalchemy, for example?20:37
sdaguedhellmann: no20:37
fungithere was a distinct impression in the joint board/tc/uc meeting last week where the ecosystem perceives openstack as complex, and overall we need to shed some weight (in terms of providing deployers/users too much flexibility) to simplify it20:38
sdaguefungi: ++20:38
dtroyerfungi: ++20:38
dimsyep fungi20:38
johnthetubaguyfungi ++20:38
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dhellmannsure, I don't have a problem with that, I just want us to be honest about the reason we're doing it.20:38
fungieasy ways include removing backend options where the ecosystem has already mostly chosen a winner20:38
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johnthetubaguyso the request for help is helping people move between databases?20:38
ttxyes, we shouldn't say it's for lack of upstream commitment then20:38
fungiand thos in particular seemed like a fairly clear-cut example of that scenario20:39
ttxwhich makes johnthetubaguy's resolution a bit redundant20:39
dhellmannjohnthetubaguy : would we accept features in service projects to ease that migration? like some sort of db-neutral dump and import tool?20:39
johnthetubaguywell, irrelevant I guess20:39
dimswe can cite both reasons ttx20:39
sdagueright, and hopefully prevent more people from being on the "wrong" side of a "don't worry wesley, likely to kill you in the morning"20:39
johnthetubaguydhellmann: thats the kind of thing I was thinking20:39
ttxdims: I would argue it should just be submitted as a base-services.rst patch then20:40
* dhellmann has a use case for that tool independent of a db transition20:40
johnthetubaguydhellmann: maybe os-ops scripts that use some alembic magic, but something20:40
dimsttx : agree20:40
ttxdims: no need for a resolution citing lack of commitment if we'd do it anyway in the name of contracting options20:40
sdaguebecause I suspect that suse and huawei ended up over on that side of the line based on us not being properly expressive that there was a preference here upstream20:40
dhellmannjohnthetubaguy : I want it to be schema-neutral for my use case, too20:40
dhellmannsdague : exactly. let's not make it worse by suggesting there is any amount of upstream commitment that could reverse this course.20:41
gordcsdague: not really from huawei pov.20:41
johnthetubaguydid we get explicit about rabbitmq already?20:41
ttxjohnthetubaguy: nope20:41
dimsjohnthetubaguy : we can line both up :)20:41
sdaguejohnthetubaguy: the non rabbit solutions hard failed enough that a resolution was never really needed practically20:41
johnthetubaguysdague: true, but its good to let folks know that20:42
dhellmannthere are people actively working on zeromq, and maybe other drivers20:42
johnthetubaguydhellmann: maybe its time to tell them to stop that (unless it fixes rabbitmq ha)20:42
dhellmannso we need to engage those teams when we start talking about deprecations there20:42
dimsdhellmann : mirantis has stopped work on zeromq20:42
ttxdhellmann: it fixes a specific distributed cloud case20:42
dhellmanndims : ok, I thought it was someone else20:42
ttxdifferent discussion though20:43
dhellmannttx: right, my point is someone still thinks there's active work to be done there20:43
johnthetubaguyfeels like they should both get the same treatment20:43
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dtroyerI think that is a reasonable starting point20:43
johnthetubaguy"hey we tried to abstract this stuff, we failed, sorry"20:43
dhellmannwe'll want to consider the rpc and notification cases separately, I think, but yeah20:44
EmilienMwe're also investing in amqp driver (without rabbitmq) in tripleo20:44
ttxOK, so two different facets to polish: be clear why we are doing it to not open false hopes, and also be clear of when we'd be fine with breaking setups (after deprecation period I guess)20:44
johnthetubaguydhellmann: thats true, I was thinking RPC20:44
EmilienMwhich would solve the rabbitmq ha20:44
sdaguejohnthetubaguy: or more importantly, the abstraction isn't going to make anyone really happy20:44
johnthetubaguysdague: true, thats realisation here really20:44
dhellmannttx: and suggest that folks start thinking about transition plans, and encourage project teams to allow feature additions to support that transition.20:45
ttxjohnthetubaguy: I prefer to see it as the natural end of an expand/contracting of options, once the market /operators picked a winner20:45
ttxnot a failure in abstracting20:45
ttxanyway, I think we know what to work on to improve the proposal(s), let's move on to next topic20:45
johnthetubaguyttx: maybe... a bit of both for sure20:46
dhellmannjohnthetubaguy : that last thing I said may be something to add to your resolution (that we'd want projects to build transition tools)20:46
ttx#info two different facets to polish: be clear why we are doing it to not open false hopes, and also be clear of when we'd be fine with breaking setups (after deprecation period I guess)20:46
johnthetubaguydhellmann: I think thats covered in the deprecation tag already, but I will check20:46
dhellmannjohnthetubaguy : ok20:46
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ttx#info if we'd do it to contract options, maybe the resolution on upstream support is unnecessary20:47
ttx#topic Status update on other proposals20:47
*** openstack changes topic to "Status update on other proposals (Meeting topic: tc)"20:47
ttxLet's go quick on those20:47
ttx* Golang CTI (https://review.openstack.org/410355) and Dims's Small steps for Go (https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/go-and-containers)20:47
ttxdtroyer, dims: quick update ?20:47
dtroyerI rev'ed the CTI doc Friday, think I got the comments, and see one last tab fail on my part20:47
dimswe have a git repo for golang-commons for oslo style ini and logs. trying to rustle up some contributors20:48
dtroyergolang-client is current on the proposal (as far as it goes) for a real-world example20:48
ttxok so still WIP20:48
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notmynameI have a quick question on this topic20:48
ttxdtroyer: let me know when ready for formal vote20:48
ttxnotmyname: sure20:48
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dtroyerttx: there are a few details to be added, but the only thing really missing from the CTI is a translation story20:49
notmynamedoes the TC want to see the dims/dtroyer work happen before anythign else? how does it fit with the things in the flavio resolution? what order does the tc want to see things happen in?20:49
dimsdtroyer : k8s folks are struggling there too20:49
dhellmanndtroyer : translation may not be a high priority unless the i18n team is planning to change their scope to include non-ui tools20:50
clarkbdtroyer: dims no gettext support in Go?20:50
dimsclarkb : tools around it20:50
ttxnotmyname: I think flaper87's framework calls for approval of the technical case before we work on how that would work20:50
fungialso we should be pretty up-front with reasons golang-client is not a replacement of gophercloud. we already have enough reputation problems outside our community when it comes to reinventing other people's wheels20:50
dtroyerclarkb: honestly I haven't spent more than an hour on it so far, so IDK20:50
dimsfungi : right20:50
ttxnotmyname: here they started working on part 2 assuming you would file something20:51
ttxI think20:51
ttxdims: ?20:51
dtroyerI added a short history of that to dims' etherpad, and am using it here because it existed and I already had core on it and could iterate quickly wihtout impacting anyone else20:51
notmynamewe've held off once the new ML thread and proposals started20:51
dhellmann#link https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/new-language-requirements.html20:51
ttx(I feel like we went over the technical use case for Swift already, but we could use some formal stamp)20:52
dimsnotmyname : i'd like swift team to help with the golang-commons if possible20:52
johnthetubaguyttx: +1 I was going to check the same thing20:52
dhellmannfungi : +120:52
cdentit was unclear to me if the "why not gophercloud?" question was answered?20:52
notmynamedims: from what I've seen, the new golang commons thing looks like a client tool? which was never under the no not python rule20:52
notmynamewhich was somewhat confusing20:53
mugsiecdent: me too20:53
notmynamefiguring out the ci and stuff like that is good, but the specifics seemed tangental20:53
ttxnotmyname: so we still need some "use case analysis" around swift to be approved. I don't think you need a lot more than what you already presented, but we need it to go through the new proces (and be approved rather than rejected)20:53
ttxI suspect dims will help you do that20:53
notmynamettx: yeah, and we're planning on that. but my question is if the tc wants to see that before or after the current dims/dtroyer work20:54
ttx(assumed that was in progress)20:54
ttxI would say before20:54
dimsnotmyname : it's not a client tool, it's code that can help with standardzing some of the operator visible things like logs and ini files20:54
ttxbased on "step 1" in that document coming before "step 2"20:54
ttxneed to switch to open discussion, as I had a couple topics to cover there20:55
dtroyerccdent, mugsie: let's talk in -dev after this if I can answer more20:55
notmynamettx: ack20:55
ttxwe can continue in #openstack-dev the discussion between dims and notmyname20:55
ttx#topic Open discussion20:55
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)"20:55
ttxI have two topics to cover20:55
ttx#info Encouraging Forum brainstorming20:55
ttxLooks like we have a lot of "we could discuss this with operators at the Forum" moments, but not so many translate into ideas on the etherpads20:55
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Forum/Boston201720:55
ttxLast week we discussed using the Forum to fill the missing link between user stories and implementation ideas and complete the feedback loop20:56
ttx(in particular build up-to-date gap analysis by involving developers in the discussion)20:56
ttxIt feels like email reminders are not really cutting it, so I'd like to encourage you to get personal20:56
ttxtry to encourage people to think about and post discussion topics ideas20:56
ttxPlan was to start filing formal topic ideas next week, so that the committee would be able to select a schedule for first half of April20:56
ttxThe deadline was pushed back one week20:56
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ttx(initial deadline was ~today)20:56
ttxBut maybe the whole timing is too short, I don't know20:57
johnthetubaguyit feels quite soon after the PTG, but having the topics soon helps with requesting budget to attend20:57
dhellmannthe mysql/pg and messaging deprecations should go on that list20:57
ttxyeah, wondering if the whole timing is not just too short20:57
ttxgoal was to publish schedule a month early20:58
ttx(before the event)20:58
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johnthetubaguyttx: I totally missed we had a deadline, I probably did know, but I think my head is assuming we sort that all much nearer the time20:58
dhellmannI don't see a list from the Arch WG, is there one somewhere?20:58
ttxon one hand we want time to figure out which topics are interesting, on the other we need the schedule published so people realize what will be discussed20:58
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johnthetubaguyttx: I don't have all the specs approved for this cycle yet, so I am not totally thinking about next cycle20:59
ttxdhellmann: I posted mines on the TC catchall20:59
ttxMy other topic was around Vision exercise feedback20:59
ttxwe can cover that one next week20:59
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johnthetubaguyI have a photo with 6 bullet points on it, that looks good20:59
ttxok, we are out of time.21:00
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ttxThanks everyone!21:00
cdentif folks get a chance look at https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/pull/237121:00
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ttxlet's overflow to #openstack-dev21:00
cdentwhoops not that!21:00
jrollthanks ttx21:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 14 21:00:45 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:00
cdentthis https://review.openstack.org/#/c/421846/21:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-03-14-20.01.html21:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-03-14-20.01.txt21:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-03-14-20.01.log.html21:00
ttxcdent: oops21:01
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cdentsuch is life in the world of cut and paste21:03
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dimscdent : starred it21:05
cdentthanks dims21:05
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