Tuesday, 2017-03-21

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hongbin#startmeeting zun03:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 21 03:00:04 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is hongbin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.03:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.03:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zun)"03:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'zun'03:00
hongbin#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun#Agenda_for_2017-03-21_0300_UTC Today's agenda03:00
hongbin#topic Roll Call03:00
*** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: zun)"03:00
mkraiMadhuri Kumari03:00
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hongbinthanks for joining mkrai lakerzhou shubhams Namrata kevinz03:01
hongbinthanks for joining pksingh03:01
hongbinlet's get started03:01
hongbin#topic Announcements03:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: zun)"03:01
hongbin1. Zun will have a 45 minutes on-boarding session at Boston Summit03:01
hongbin#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-March/114149.html03:01
hongbinzsli_: thanks for joining shunli03:02
hongbinback to the topic03:02
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hongbinthe on-boarding session will be provided to on-board new contributors03:02
hongbinbasically, we will send one or more team member to there and chair the session03:03
hongbinwe will introduce new contributors how to contribute to zun project03:03
mkraihongbin: This is happening for the first time in summit, right?03:04
hongbini guess it will cover how to run tests, how this component is going to work, etc.03:04
hongbinmkrai: yes, it is the first time03:04
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hongbinif anyone want to chair this session, please feel free to let me know, otherwise, i can be the default chair03:04
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hongbinany other question about this?03:05
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hongbinif not, hope to see you all there03:05
hongbin#topic Cinder integration (diga)03:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Cinder integration (diga) (Meeting topic: zun)"03:05
hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/cinder-zun-integration The BP03:05
hongbindiga sent me an email saying that he cannot attend03:06
hongbinhere is the update he sent me03:06
hongbinI have resolved fuxi/docker issue and things are working for me at last.03:06
hongbinAPI level integration with Cinder & Docker is completed03:06
hongbinWill upload latest patch with test cases as it is failing CI jobs.03:06
hongbinThat is all from him03:06
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hongbinany comment about this bp?03:06
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hongbinok, move on03:07
hongbin#topic Kuryr integration (hongbin)03:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Kuryr integration (hongbin) (Meeting topic: zun)"03:07
hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/kuryr-integration The BP03:07
hongbinat last week, most of the patches i submitted to kuryr-libnetwork got merged03:08
hongbinbased on how the patches were merged, i submitted a revision to the spec03:08
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/447732/03:08
hongbinhere is the general idea03:08
hongbinto create a network, users are expected to pass an existing neutron net to zun03:09
hongbinfor example, it could be a "private" net pre-created by most of hte cloud03:09
hongbinwhen a user request to create a container, zun will use user's token to create a port from private net03:10
hongbinthen, zun will figure out all the information from the port, e.g. the subnetpool id, the cidr, the gateway, etc.03:11
hongbinthis information will pass to kuryr to create the network and configure the network of hte container03:11
hongbinin general, the behaviour should be similar to nova (user create vm by specifying a neutron net)03:11
mkraiSo do we need the network API now?03:12
hongbinmkrai: yes03:12
mkraiI see it is just storing the info in db03:12
hongbinmkrai: however, the network api would be just a wrapper of a neutron network at the first iteration03:12
mkraiAnd what else is the thing can be done by the API?03:12
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hongbini guess nothing else at the first iteration03:13
hongbinlater, we might store additonal information, such labels, subnet, etc.03:13
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mkraiOk I will try to review the spec and provide my input if any03:14
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hongbinmkrai: ack, thx03:14
mkraihongbin: Thanks for your great effort on this03:14
pksinghhongbin: is it necessary to provide the API to store information in DB?03:15
kevinzhongbin: thanks hongbin, great work03:15
pksinghhongbin: cant we do it during container create?03:15
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hongbinpksingh: i think the answer is yes03:16
hongbini guess there would be benefits for two container to connect to the same "container network"03:16
hongbine.g. two containers can discover each other if they are in the same docker network03:17
pksinghhongbin: i see,03:17
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hongbinhowever, we could provide a short cut version for users to allow them to bypass the network api03:17
hongbinthis could directly create container from neutron net03:18
pksinghhongbin: we store the network infor just for multitenancy?03:18
hongbinpksingh: i think it is more than that03:19
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hongbinpksingh: a network in zun is basically represents a docker network if driver is docker03:19
pksinghhongbin: OK, thanks for explaining, will look into the spec and put my queries there03:20
hongbinpksingh: sure03:20
hongbinmore comments?03:20
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hongbinok, advance topic03:21
hongbin#topic Introduce host capabilities and cpusets (sudipto)03:21
*** openstack changes topic to "Introduce host capabilities and cpusets (sudipto) (Meeting topic: zun)"03:21
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/427007/ The spec03:21
hongbinit looks sudipta is not here03:21
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hongbinwe could skip this one unless anyone want to comment on this topic03:22
hongbinok, next topic03:22
hongbin#topic Introduce container composition03:22
*** openstack changes topic to "Introduce container composition (Meeting topic: zun)"03:22
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/437759/03:22
hongbinkevinz: ^^03:22
kevinzHi all, I've uploaded a net version of the spec03:23
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kevinzAdd the implementation procedure of this03:24
kevinzalso I have a proposal of the data model. http://kevinzhao.org/2017/03/18/zun-capsule-object.html   hope your feedback of this03:25
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pksinghkevinz: i am not able to open the link in office, may be i will check this at home03:27
kevinzSorry, I have move the link to etherpad: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-container-composition03:28
kevinzthat will be easy to discuess03:28
pksinghkevinz: thanks, it better03:28
hongbinthanks kevinz for moving it to etherpad03:28
kevinzyw :-)03:29
hongbini guess i will give everyone a few minutes to comment on the etherpad03:29
kevinzYeah, Also I have three question inline to discuss in the v1.CapsuleElement03:29
pksinghi think we need to make a naming convention and at all places we should use capsule03:31
kevinzyes sure03:33
mkraiI wonder how we will manage both capsule container and our docker/nova-docker containers at same time03:33
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mkraikevinz: This implementation will be a new driver for container_driver?03:34
kevinzmkrai: Now I prefer to reuse the container driver03:34
hongbini guess it is a new api instead of a new driver03:34
mkraiYes I agree for new API03:34
pksinghkevinz: i think we dont need to expose HOST information to user03:34
mkraiBut not sure how we will manage both containers concurrently03:35
kevinzYeah, API server will read the yaml info from CLI, then scheduler to create the container.03:35
kevinzto  zun compute03:35
pksinghkevinz: may be you are storing HOST in DB only for internal use03:36
kevinzPlan to add a new field to container Object, to show whether it is in a capsule03:36
kevinzpksingh: Yes, for internal use. will not expose it to user03:36
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mkraikevinz: IMO I think we should keep the container_driver and capsule implementation seperate03:37
mkraikevinz: Adding the capsule field to container will make the things more complex03:37
pksinghmkrai: i think capsule is going to user container_driver internally03:37
kevinzpksingh: Yeah just internally use it03:38
mkraipksingh: Yes but I don't we need to add the merge both the implementations03:38
hongbinmkrai: basically, what we have right now is 1 infra container + 1 real container, which is basically a 1 container capsule03:39
hongbinmkrai: i think the proposal is just an extension to support 1 infra container + multiple real containers03:39
kevinzhongbin: +103:40
mkraihongbin: thanks for explaining03:41
pksinghpoint is how to make a relationship between container and capsule in DB?03:41
hongbinpksingh: this is a good question03:41
pksinghif we remove the container API and keep only capsule APIS then things would be easier?03:41
mkraiYes that is same question03:41
kevinzThat a question need to discuss03:41
mkraiThanks pksingh for puttng in better words :)03:42
kevinzpksingh: Yeah that will be totally like a pod03:42
hongbini think there are several options here03:42
hongbin1. make capsule as a wrapper of the infra container, and the relationship between capsule and real containers is a one-to-many relationship03:43
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hongbinfor example, for a 2 container capsule, there will be 1 db entry for capsule, 2 db entry for container03:44
hongbin2. make capsule as a whole03:45
hongbinthen, there will be 1 db entry per capsule that is for capturing all the information (no extra db entry for contianer)03:45
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hongbinthat is all i can think of03:45
pksinghhongbin: for approach 2, what if i want the specific information for a conatiner inside the capsule?03:46
hongbinoption #2 would be more like a pod and they are stored as a unit03:46
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kevinzapproach 1 has the minium change. option 2 like a pod03:46
hongbinpksingh: i guess you need to read inside the db entry and parse information about individual containers03:47
mkraiI think option 1 is better and preferable03:47
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pksinghhongbin: OK, so we will be storing all the information in DB for every container as blob?03:47
hongbinpksingh: sort of ...03:48
hongbinpksingh: perhaps it worth to discuss at the api leverl03:48
mkraihongbin: Right. Unify the container and capsule apis03:48
hongbini guess option #2 will make the api looks like a pod03:48
hongbinzun capsule-create will create some containers, but it won't be listed by running "zun list"03:49
mkraithe concept of container and capsule is same, so having single API layer makes much sense03:49
pksinghI think if we use approach two, then keeping both the APIs would be more manageable03:49
hongbinmkrai: ack03:50
pksinghand we need to have two set of APIS, one for containers and one for capsules03:50
kevinzpksingh: yes03:51
mkraipksingh: container is also a capsule but with just one container, so why do we need different api03:51
hongbinon the other side, these two set of apis would be duplicated somehow03:51
mkraihongbin: Exactly03:52
pksinghyes, thats why i said we may need to just put the capsule API only03:52
hongbinpksingh: i believe some users prefered the simplicity of hte container api03:52
pksinghhongbin: but then there will be lot of duplication internally03:53
mkraihongbin: kevinz pksingh I think the current solution could be to implement the capsule API now and see if is at all worth having 2 APIs03:53
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hongbinpksingh: i would lean to option #1 that make a capsule as a wrapper of sandbox03:54
pksinghhongbin: then we need to have two set of APIs03:54
pksinghhongbin: ok, got it03:55
hongbinpksingh: yes, but they are not dupicated anymore03:55
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mkraipksingh: Why so?03:55
hongbinok, let continue the dicussion at the next meeting03:55
pksinghhongbin: ok, +1 for approach 103:55
kevinzI guess capsule don't need much api for operation03:55
hongbin#topic Open Discussion03:55
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: zun)"03:55
hongbinwe have 5 minute left03:55
hongbinfeel free to continue the discussion until then03:56
mkraiI also prefer option 1 but not sure why would we need two APIs03:56
pksinghhongbin: since we are close to release, we may priortise the tasks03:56
pksinghmkrai: as hongbin said some people want docker like APIs,03:57
mkraipksingh: +103:57
hongbinpksingh: what do you think about the priority?03:57
mkraipksingh: Ok I think that is a valid point. Simplicity03:57
pksinghhongbin: i am not sure, i was thinking a MVP zun03:58
pksinghminimum vaiable product03:58
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hongbinok, since mvp has many meaning :)03:58
pksinghso i was thinking if user can use the zun for basic operation03:58
pksinghlike accessing the container from putside is still not possible03:59
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hongbinpksingh: agree03:59
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hongbinpksingh: right now, i marked the netowrk and storage bp as hte highest priority03:59
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pksinghso if we priortize the tasks then we can implement those04:00
kevinzhongbin: +104:00
pksinghyse i think they are very necessary04:00
hongbintime is up04:00
hongbinoverflow on #openstack-zun channel04:00
pksinghbye :)04:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"04:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 21 04:00:41 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)04:00
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openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-03-21-03.00.html04:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-03-21-03.00.txt04:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-03-21-03.00.log.html04:00
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rkmrHonjo#startmeeting masakari04:00
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openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 21 04:00:55 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is rkmrHonjo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.04:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.04:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: masakari)"04:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'masakari'04:00
rkmrHonjoHi all.04:01
rkmrHonjoI provide this meeting instead of samP.04:01
sagararkmrHonjo: thanks04:01
rkmrHonjo#topic bugs04:01
*** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: masakari)"04:01
rkmrHonjoDo you have any bugs to discuss?04:02
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rkmrHonjoCan we go to next topic?04:04
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tpatilI will review patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/444801 soon04:04
rkmrHonjotpatil: thanks.04:04
rkmrHonjoaction: tpatil reviews https://review.openstack.org/#/c/44480104:05
rkmrHonjo#action: tpatil reviews https://review.openstack.org/#/c/44480104:05
rkmrHonjo#action tpatil reviews https://review.openstack.org/#/c/44480104:05
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sagaraI will also review that.04:05
sagaraIs there any bug?04:06
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rkmrHonjoOK, let's go to next topic.04:06
rkmrHonjo#topic Pike work items04:06
*** openstack changes topic to "Pike work items (Meeting topic: masakari)"04:06
rkmrHonjo#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/masakari-pike-workitems04:07
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rkmrHonjoDo you have any items to discuss? BTW, I think that we had already discussed enough about items last week.04:07
sagararkmrHonjo: Yes04:07
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tpatilRequest Sampath to approve BP: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/masakari/+spec/enable-openstack-proposal-bot04:08
Dinesh_Bhor^^ I am ready with the patches to submit but waiting for the blueprint to be approved04:09
sagararkmrHonjo: I don't know which items needs blueprint and spec. everything?04:09
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sagaratpatil, Dinesh_Bhor: thank you04:09
tpatilItem :auto_priority and rh_priority recovery_methods04:10
rkmrHonjosagara: Sorry, I don't know, too. We should discuss it when sampath participate to meeting.04:10
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tpatilDinesh has address review comments, need to review his patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/433669/04:11
rkmrHonjo#action Sampath checks and approves BP: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/masakari/+spec/enable-openstack-proposal-bot04:11
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sagara#action Sampath confirms which Pike items needs blueprint and spec04:13
rkmrHonjosagara: Can you review Dinesh's patch?04:15
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sagararkmrHonjo: Sure, I have reveied Dinesh's patch, once. And I will review that again.04:16
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sagara#action sagara reviews https://review.openstack.org/#/c/433669/04:17
rkmrHonjosagara: thanks.04:17
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rkmrHonjoany other items?04:18
rkmrHonjoOK, let's go to next topic.04:19
rkmrHonjo#topic AOB04:19
*** openstack changes topic to "AOB (Meeting topic: masakari)"04:19
rkmrHonjoDo you have any other topics?04:20
rkmrHonjoOK, this meeting is over.04:20
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rkmrHonjothank you all.04:21
tpatilThank you all04:21
Dinesh_Bhorthanks all.04:21
sagaraI think need to confirm about which Pike items need bp and specs, And then we need to start development from "Recovery method customization"04:21
sagaraok, thanks04:21
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"04:22
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 21 04:22:01 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)04:22
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-03-21-04.00.html04:22
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-03-21-04.00.txt04:22
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-03-21-04.00.log.html04:22
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eranrom#startmeeting storlets08:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 21 08:00:10 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is eranrom. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.08:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.08:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storlets)"08:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'storlets'08:00
eranromHi akihito08:00
eranromKota said he cannot join.08:00
eranromDo you know if Sagara plans on joining?08:01
akihitooh.. ok.08:01
akihitojust moment please.08:01
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akihitoSagara is absent.08:02
eranromakihito: ok. Then its only us.08:03
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eranromA small update:08:03
eranromDuring the next week I will be giving a demonstration of Storlets in a web meeting.08:03
eranromThe demo will show how to use storlets to do end to end machine learning. Specifically, I will show how to do face recognitions using storlets08:04
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eranromI will send an invite later today through the openstack mailing list.08:05
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akihitowow! fantastic! I am looking forward to it.08:06
eranromakihito: thanks.08:06
akihitoI will tell sagara and takashi.08:06
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eranromakihito: great. I assume you all get the openstack-dev mails.08:07
eranromDo you want to discuss anything on the fie deletion / cleanup work that you are doing?08:07
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akihitoI do not have anything today. I am modifying the code based on the comments you received.08:09
akihitoThank you for your comment in <https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/storlets-pike-design-summit>08:09
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eranromakihito: ok. sure.08:10
eranromso I guess we can end up now...08:10
eranromassuming there is nothing else (?)08:11
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akihitoyep. I have not a topic..08:11
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eranromok, so thanks for joining.08:12
eranromtalk to you later08:12
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"08:12
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 21 08:12:33 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)08:12
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2017/storlets.2017-03-21-08.00.html08:12
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2017/storlets.2017-03-21-08.00.txt08:12
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2017/storlets.2017-03-21-08.00.log.html08:12
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Qiming#startmeeting senlin13:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 21 13:00:11 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.13:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.13:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'senlin'13:00
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yanyanhuhi, evening13:00
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Qimingagenda posted, please add if you have things to talk about13:01
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Qiming#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda#Weekly_Senlin_.28Clustering.29_meeting13:01
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Qimingle'ts get started13:02
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Qiming#topic pike work items13:02
*** openstack changes topic to "pike work items (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:02
Qiming#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-pike-workitems13:02
Qimingapi test for profile-only is in now13:03
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Qimingwe need to revisit if all api changes since microversion 1.2 have been properly tested13:03
Qimingso I'm leaving that item there13:04
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Qimingnext, feature rich nova server13:04
elynnno progress yet13:04
elynnwill try to start it this week13:04
Qimingokay, sounds great13:04
elynnAs we talked before13:04
Qimingwe have some very limited versioning support today13:04
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Qimingin the long run, maybe we should replace the "schema" module with versioned objects13:05
elynnI'm about to say I'm going to use versioned schema for it..13:05
Qimingwe may need to derive some subclasses from base VersionedObject for this purpose13:05
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elynnBut I haven't tested it yet...13:05
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yanyanhuhi, Qiming, so the member of the derived versioned object will still be versioned object?13:06
elynnwill spend some time on it13:06
Qimingwe don't have to do nested versioned objects13:06
yanyanhue.g. a versioned obj for nova server profile will be consist of a set of versioned object of image/net/storage, etc.13:06
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Qimingthe goal is simple, make sure any changes of the spec would require a version bump13:07
Qimingif we manage nested objects, there will be two or more layers of objects to be managed in versions13:07
Qimingtoo boring13:07
yanyanhuyes, more than one layers of oversioned obj will be there if so13:08
Qimingnext, engine improvement, wrt CLUSTER_CHECK13:08
Qimingyes, yanyanhu, and each of them will have to be versioned13:08
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XueFengNo update this week13:09
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XueFengAttend a meetup in NanJing13:09
Qimingalright, would you give an update on your talk during open discussion?13:09
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Qimingnext item is about node adopt13:10
XueFengAnd will have a article for the meetup13:10
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yanyanhuXueFeng, that's great :)13:10
Qimingjust added some resources to SDK, for getting environment, files and template back13:10
Qimingsenlin side driver patches are ready for review13:10
Qimingem... both are in now: https://review.openstack.org/447001 and https://review.openstack.org/44686613:11
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Qimingreview.openstack.org is slow ....13:12
yanyanhuyes, it is...13:12
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Qimingactually, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/447001/ should not get in13:13
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Qimingbecause there is another patch at sdk side to be merged13:13
Qimingand we will need to wait for another release from sdk to get the whole thing work13:13
Qimingbut anyway, cannot wait for so long13:13
QimingI think we are ready to move forward with node adoption13:14
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elynnIt's an important feature in senlin13:15
Qimingnext is from ruijie13:15
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RuijieI cannot open etherpad .,..13:15
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Qimingthe main requirement is about doing an optional health check before doing scaling13:16
Ruijieyes Qiming.13:16
RuijieWe do desired_capacity check in scaling proces13:16
QimingI'm okay with this feature13:16
Qimingdesired capacity is expressed by a user's request13:16
Qimingthat is how we call it "desired"13:17
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Qiminglooking at your story, I'm kind of feeling it is making things too complicated13:17
Ruijieem .. Qiming, you mean which part13:18
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Qimingcalculate new desired capacity based on old desired_capacity13:18
Qimingthe old value is never reliable13:18
Qimingit might have been broken since last time you scaled your cluster13:18
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RuijieI thought that is the mean of "desired" ..13:19
Qiminga more reasonable process is to do your operations based on current scale13:19
Ruijiee.g, current desired=3, num of nodes=3, we do scale out to 5. then the desired is 513:19
Qimingwe have a long debate several months ago13:19
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Qimingwhen you do scaling, you express your expectation in parameters, senlin will compute your "desired capacity"13:20
yanyanhuhi, Ruijie, I think the basic idea is senlin won't maintain the "desired" capacity. In opposite, users will maintain/remind this value in their own mind :)13:20
Ruijiebut if this process failed, say we only have 4 nodes, but the desired is still 5 ... I want 5 nodes in the cluster but not 4..13:20
Qimingbut this computation has nothing to do with the curren value of "desired_capacity"13:21
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Qimingthis is especially true when you do auto-scaling13:21
yanyanhuusers can observe and know what is current size of cluster, then they scale their clusters based on the observation result13:21
Qimingthe metrics that trigger an auto-scaling is the active number of nodes, not the current "desired capacity"13:21
Ruijieyanyanhu, you mean the "desired" is invisiable to user ?13:21
Qimingdesired is calculated from your last scaling operation13:22
yanyanhuRuijie, I mean senlin won't be responsible to maintain the "desired" value13:22
Qimingthat was your "desire"13:22
yanyanhuits users' "desire" :)13:22
Qimingwhen senlin adjusts cluster scale, it is always based on the "reality", the current size of the cluster13:22
yanyanhuso they always know this value and they don't need to rely on senlin to keep it13:23
Qimingif you want to make sure the current size (cached in cluster's nodes list) is correct, you can still do a health check13:23
Qimingthere is no conflict ther13:23
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Ruijieokay, I think I got it .. we show the desired and current size, let user decide what to do13:24
yanyanhuQiming, maybe we should consider to rename the property of "desired_capacity"...13:24
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Qimingthat is how a user should be doing13:24
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Qimingand that is actually what a monitoring software doing13:24
RuijieHere is an problem we met.13:24
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Qimingyanyanhu, suggestions on renaming?13:25
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Ruijiecurrent is 3, scale to 5, but 1 failed.13:25
yanyanhuQiming, yes. Or we keep it in current status but add some explanation on it13:25
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Ruijiethen to make the process corrct, I need to scale out 1 again13:25
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QimingRuijie, in that case, the current size is 4, your last desired_capacity is 513:26
RuijieAnd now we are using receiver to do scale, that means, I need to create another receiver to scale out 1 ..13:26
Qimingyou can see that from openstack cluster show13:26
Qimingwe don't do convergence13:26
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Qiminguses should check the current size of a cluster after an operation and explicitly tell us what to do next, via another service request13:27
Ruijieyes Qiming, I understand, I mean if we based on old desired capacity, senlin will correct this process, then user will be free ...:)13:28
Qimingno, it may be too dangerous13:28
Qimingwe actually don't know what happened13:28
Qimingmaybe the server has run out of resources13:28
Qimingkeep on trying creating a new node is only a waste of time13:29
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Qimingyour other point, as I read from etherpad, is to ensure cluster recover to its desired capacity13:29
Qimingthat makes sense to me13:29
Qimingif only we make the behavior configurable13:30
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Ruijie__sorry just dropped...13:30
Qiming<Qiming> your other point, as I read from etherpad, is to ensure cluster recover to its desired capacity13:30
Qiming<Qiming> that makes sense to me13:30
Qiming<Qiming> if only we make the behavior configurable13:30
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QimingI'd suggest we make the service robust and predictable first13:31
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Ruijie__yes Qiming13:31
Qiminginstead of trying to make it a smart robot13:31
Ruijie__to correct the failure scaling when do scaling action again13:31
Qimingespecially be cautious when we teach senlin to guess what users meant13:31
QimingRuijie__, that makes perfect sense to me13:31
Qimingthat is what the English word "recover" means, IMO13:32
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Qimingthx for bringing up these topics13:32
Ruijie__another option is: we make scale as scale, and to do this process in recovery ..13:32
Qimingmake the service dumb and stable13:33
Ruijie__then all scaling based on current number of nodes,  cluster recover to correct all failures13:33
Qimingyes, that is what I was suggesting13:33
Qimingdon't mix scaling with recovery instead13:34
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Ruijie__okay Qiming, that makes sense. And shell we do health check in scaling process, to make it configurable13:34
Qimingyes, that sounds reasonable too13:35
Qimingadding line 20 to etherpad just now13:35
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Ruijie__okay, Qiming, I will modify the draft :)13:35
Ruijie__yes Qiming13:35
Qimingokay, you may want to create a BP for  this13:36
Qimingor maybe two BPs?13:36
Qimingmoving on13:36
Qimingnext is about RDO packaging13:36
XueFengRdo is in debug13:36
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Qiminghealth mgmt13:37
QimingI'm not aware of any progress there13:37
Qimingsenlinclient functional test13:37
Qimingno progress there either?13:37
XueFengYes, will do it13:37
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QimingLB policy improvement13:38
Qimingyet waiting to see a patch on that13:38
Ruijie__let me see13:38
Qimingem, that's all on the list13:39
Qimingwebsite is so slow13:40
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Ruijie__yes XueFeng13:40
Qimingokay, Ruijie__ , will jump onto that13:40
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XueFengit seems its the same with base.13:41
Qimingcool, the link is in etherpad now13:41
Ruijie__yes XueFeng, just removed one parameter.13:41
XueFengDon't get the point13:41
Ruijie__I am still thinking how to process the data in a better way13:41
XueFengSo will update the patch?13:42
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Qimingtake your time then13:42
Ruijie__yes XueFeng, will update it latter. :)13:43
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Qiminganything else on pike work items13:43
Qimingwe can move on now13:43
Qiming#topic boston summit prep13:43
*** openstack changes topic to "boston summit prep (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:43
QimingI haven't got time to touch base with xinhui on the talk preps13:43
Qimingwill do that asap13:44
Qimingelynn, any news you can share?13:44
elynnnot yet now13:44
elynnYou could touch with xinhui13:44
Qiming#topic open discussion13:44
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:44
Qimingelynn, will do13:44
QimingXueFeng, your turn13:45
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elynnxinhui and I are working on open-o staff recently.13:45
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XueFengIn 2017.3.18 there is a openstack meetup in NanJing China.13:45
XueFeng And there will be a atricle about the meetup in weixin "yunkaiyuan".13:45
Qimingelynn, take my knees13:45
yanyanhu18th, April?13:45
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yanyanhuoh, you mean the meetup has finished13:46
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XueFengHave finished:)13:46
XueFengThe first topic is about senlin project.13:46
elynnJust some trivial things which trap xinhui too.13:46
yanyanhuXueFeng, that is great13:47
XueFengAnd I do a introduce for senlin:)13:47
elynnGood to know more people in Nanjing get to know senlin!13:47
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XueFengThat will be13:48
XueFengFour parts about this topic.13:48
XueFeng1. Cluster requirements in openstack13:48
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QimingXueFeng, I think most of us have read the article you wrote13:49
Qimingit is great13:49
XueFeng2.What is senlin and what is senlin can do13:49
yanyanhuyep :)13:49
Qimingwhat we are curious about is the questions13:49
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Qimingor problems we can help address13:49
Ruijie__also shared it to my colleagues13:49
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XueFeng3.How to slove as+ha+lb all in one.Senlin can do this13:50
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XueFeng4.Senlin Boston submit13:50
XueFengSenlin in Boston Submit13:50
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XueFengAnd in the meetup13:51
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XueFengAnohter people intordue Sahara13:52
XueFengAnd I think we need to do some explaination about senlin and sahara13:53
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XueFengWhat is the different. Many peoples don't know13:53
Qimingany other feedback?13:55
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Qimingokay, if you have a summary13:57
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Qimingyou can send it out later to the team13:57
Qimingif there are no other topics for discussion13:57
Qimingwe can release the channel now13:57
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XueFenggood night,all13:58
Qimingthanks for joining, guys13:58
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"13:58
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 21 13:58:31 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)13:58
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2017/senlin.2017-03-21-13.00.html13:58
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2017/senlin.2017-03-21-13.00.txt13:58
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2017/senlin.2017-03-21-13.00.log.html13:58
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bcafareligordcard: ccf meeting? calendar says it's now :)14:09
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tmorino/    hi folks14:32
tmorinsorry for being late14:32
tmorinor perhaps I'm not late...?14:32
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bcafareltmorin: o/14:36
tmorinhi bcafarel :)14:37
tmorinis ccf meeting this week ?14:37
bcafarelit should be the correct time (if I setup my calendar correctly), maybe a DST change side-effect for igordcard :)14:37
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reedipis it Now ????14:38
igordcardhi all14:38
igordcardunfortunately I got held in internal discussions here, and I have to get used to this new time too :( apologies all14:39
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igordcardping bcafarel tmorin reedip still around?14:39
tmorinyep ! hi  :)14:39
bcafareligordcard: hi! and yes14:39
reedipYeah, parallel meetings14:39
reedipnext week its going to be 3 simultaneously !14:39
igordcardyou are good participants :)14:40
igordcardI'll start it now, it's a very lightweight meeting today and davidsha isn't around to go deep on the PoC14:40
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igordcard#startmeeting network_common_flow_classifier14:40
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 21 14:40:53 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is igordcard. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:40
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:40
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: network_common_flow_classifier)"14:40
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'network_common_flow_classifier'14:40
igordcard2 min while I make a change to the wiki14:41
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igordcard#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/CommonFlowClassifier#Discussion_Topic_21_March_201714:42
igordcard#topic PoC status14:42
*** openstack changes topic to "PoC status (Meeting topic: network_common_flow_classifier)"14:42
igordcarddavidsha has kindly submitted the PoC code for review at:14:43
igordcard#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/445577/14:43
igordcardI see some comments from ralonsoh already14:43
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igordcardI invite all to take a look at it, I will as well14:43
igordcardI'd say there is no need to be very detailed in the reviews since it's just a PoC14:44
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igordcardthe most important for now is agree on the architecture and work towards consistency with the spec (bidirectionally)14:44
igordcard#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/333993/14:45
igordcardping pcarver xgerman14:47
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igordcardif you left because the meeting didn't start, we're here now :)14:47
bcafarelxgerman at least should not be far away, I see fwaas meeting in progress in meeting-414:48
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igordcardbcafarel: also see yushiro there, but he's not on this channel14:48
reedipI pinged him... he is in the fwaas meeting fright now14:48
igordcardalright it's all about the PoC, moving on...14:49
tmorinI'm listening, willing to make a pass on both specs and poc code when I find the time14:49
igordcard#topic Open discussion14:49
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: network_common_flow_classifier)"14:49
reedipyushiro is chairing the meeting, it would be difficult for him to come right now but would come after some time14:49
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igordcardnetworking-fwaas meeting: Weekly on Tuesday at 1400 UTC in #openstack-meeting-414:49
igordcardwill always conflict with this one, hopefully we can still make progress14:50
igordcardreedip: right... that justifies why he couldn't vote for this time14:50
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igordcardthanks tmorin14:51
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igordcardI haven't submitted a new patchset after xgerman reviews  in order to accumulate more feedback14:51
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igordcardalright, it's all from my side14:52
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igordcardmy main commitment for the next couple of weeks is to review to PoC and address further ccf spec comments14:52
igordcardas I work very close to davidsha, we'll also actively attempt to address divergences between spec and PoC (or future code) as quick as possible14:53
reedipigordcard : thanks for adding me as a reviewer, will also look into the PoC ...tomorrow though :) ( its late here now )14:53
igordcardI'm keeping this meeting session running until 1459UTC in case the fwaas finishes early14:54
bcafarelhopefully I will have enough time to catch up on spec (and poc code too now) in the meantime14:54
igordcardthanks reedip14:54
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igordcardthanks bcafarel14:55
tmorinigordcard: I haven't read PS13 of the specs, but I have one question: did you already had time to add the items I suggested to the TODO list at the top, or some of them ?14:55
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igordcardtmorin: yes, I either addressed all of them or almost all of them14:57
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igordcardtmorin: depending on how extensive I was in my changes14:57
tmorinigordcard: good, one additional reason for me to make a pass on it :)14:57
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igordcardalright folks I'm closing the meeting14:59
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igordcardthank you all14:59
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tmorinbye !14:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"14:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 21 14:59:32 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)14:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/network_common_flow_classifier/2017/network_common_flow_classifier.2017-03-21-14.40.html14:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/network_common_flow_classifier/2017/network_common_flow_classifier.2017-03-21-14.40.txt14:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/network_common_flow_classifier/2017/network_common_flow_classifier.2017-03-21-14.40.log.html14:59
reedipthanks igordcard ..14:59
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yuval#startmeeting karbor15:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 21 15:00:24 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is yuval. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: karbor)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'karbor'15:00
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yuvalHello everybody15:00
yuvaland welcome to the weekly karbor meeting15:00
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yuval#info zhonghua and chenying in meeting15:01
yuvalwaiting for anyone else? zhangshuai?15:01
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yuvallet's begin15:02
zhonghuasorry, I donot know15:02
yuval#topic fullstack15:02
*** openstack changes topic to "fullstack (Meeting topic: karbor)"15:02
yuvalchenying: you added this item15:02
chenyingI want to add a new fullstack job, focus on the operationengine tests.15:03
chenyingWhat's your oppion about it?15:03
yuvalchenying: add new fullstack jobs? sounds great15:03
yuvalchenying: wait, new job or new tests?15:03
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chenyingIMO, the fullstack takes too much time.15:04
chenyingnew job, so we can move some fullstack tests to new job.15:04
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yuvalchenying: do you know how much time each test takes right now?15:05
yuvalchenying: why not enable concurrency, as zhangshuai is trying to do?15:05
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chenyingAs you know, zhangshuai works on this patch for a long time. 'Update fullstack efficiency'  There are some error about swit when parallelly runing tests.15:06
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yuvalchenying: ok, and?15:07
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chenyingThe reason is that, the swif will handle the request  parallelly, the time is too long and the rcp will timeout, because of the swift runing the vm, the vm don't have high performance.15:08
yuvalchenying: if zhangshuai ran into a swift error, there might be real issue there, that we need to solve. Separating the tests into two gate jobs will not resolve that15:08
yuvalchenying: are you sure this is the issue?15:09
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chenyingyuval: yes  I and zhangshuai test this patch for one or two days.15:09
yuvalchenying: how do you know the problem is swift performance?15:10
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chenyingyuval: When cinder call swift api to do volume backup, it may take  4 or 5min to backup a volume.15:10
yuvalchenying: wait15:10
yuvalchenying: the main issue about zhangshuai patch is, that swift _fails_ for some calls15:11
chenyingyuval in the situation runing the test parallelly.15:11
yuvalchenying: not the long time it takes15:11
yuvalchenying: besides, how do you know swift is the bottleneck?15:11
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chenyingyuval: No The reason is taking too long .15:12
yuvalchenying: I do not understna15:12
yuvalchenying: please reiterate15:12
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chenyingyuval: The reason is that swift taking too long time, and the rpc will timeout.15:13
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yuvalchenying: do you have something to support that claim? log file?15:15
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chenyingYes log file, We have calculated the handling time of swift by the time log of rpc messages id when cinder call the backup api(backup colume to swift).15:17
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chenyingIn the situation runing the test parallelly It take about 4 -5 min.15:17
yuvalchenying: very interesting. Can you refer me to the log messages later? Maybe we can do something to resolve that in the same gate job. If we don't have a choice, we will split into two different gate jobs15:18
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chenyingzhangshuai can provide the log file about using swift to backup volume tomorrow. I don't have it now.15:21
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yuvalchenying: great15:21
yuvalchenying: great job15:21
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yuval#topic pike15:22
*** openstack changes topic to "pike (Meeting topic: karbor)"15:22
yuval#link https://ethercalc.openstack.org/karbor-pike15:23
yuvalchenying: never updated that etherpad15:23
yuvalchenying: see the ethercalc15:23
chenyingyuval We have added our name to the task that want to do.15:23
yuvalalso, please do not change or add tasks, just assign to yourself15:23
yuvalit is sorted by priorirty and size (estimation)15:24
chenyingOK I will ask other guys to update this link tomorrow.15:25
yuvalalso, we have a launchpad milestone:15:25
yuval#link https://launchpad.net/karbor/+milestone/pike-ms15:25
yuvalchenying: again, please update only the assignee15:26
chenyingI know.15:27
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yuval#topic Open Discussion15:29
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: karbor)"15:29
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yuvalAnything else?15:31
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chenyingI don't have any topics.15:31
yuvalHave a good night!15:31
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:31
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 21 15:31:43 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:31
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-03-21-15.00.html15:31
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-03-21-15.00.txt15:31
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-03-21-15.00.log.html15:31
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ihrachys#startmeeting neutron_ci16:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 21 16:00:23 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ihrachys. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.16:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)"16:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_ci'16:00
ihrachysgood day everyone16:00
* ihrachys waves at mlavalle 16:00
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* mlavalle waves back at ihrachys16:01
ihrachysok let's start with reviewing action items from prev meeting16:01
ihrachys"ihrachys fix e-r bot not reporting in irc channel"16:02
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ihrachysdidn't happen, I am a slug, will need to wrap into this week16:02
ihrachys#action ihrachys fix e-r bot not reporting in irc channel16:02
ihrachysnext is "haleyb and mlavalle to investigate what makes dvr gate job failing with 25% rate"16:02
ihrachys#link http://grafana.openstack.org/dashboard/db/neutron-failure-rate?panelId=8&fullscreen16:02
mlavalleI've been digging in Kiabana into this16:03
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mlavallesince it is in the check queue, it is laborious to separate failures caused by patchset and real failures16:03
mlavallefor real failures, I don't have a conclusive diagnostic yet16:04
ihrachysany idea why gate-tempest-dsvm-neutron-dvr-multinode-full-ubuntu-xenial is not in grafana board at all?16:04
mlavallemaybe haleyb might speak to that16:04
mlavalleI don't see him around, though16:04
ihrachysoh because it's gate-tempest-dsvm-neutron-dvr-multinode-full-ubuntu-xenial-nv now16:05
ihrachysnote -nv16:05
mlavalleok cool16:05
ihrachys#action ihrachys to fix the grafana board to include gate-tempest-dsvm-neutron-dvr-multinode-full-ubuntu-xenial-nv16:05
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ihrachysmlavalle: it's hard to say if there is any trend beyond regular check queue issues16:05
mlavalleof the real failures that I have analyzed, the most common case is {u'code': 500, u'message': u'No valid host was found. There are not enough hosts available.'16:06
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ihrachyswhich is usually because scheduler failed to talk to libvirtd isn't it?16:06
mlavalleYeah, I think so16:06
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mlavalleI haven't seen enough evidence yet, though16:07
mlavalleI would like to watch this a few more days16:07
mlavalleI just wanted to share with the team the trend that I am seeing16:07
ihrachysok let's sync the next week when the board is hopefully fixed16:07
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ihrachysok next was "ihrachys explore why bug 1532809 bubbled into top in e-r"16:08
openstackbug 1532809 in OpenStack Compute (nova) liberty "Gate failures when DHCP lease cannot be acquired" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1532809 - Assigned to Sean Dague (sdague)16:08
mlavalleI'll keep watching this over the next few days16:08
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ihrachysI checked logs, and it was because ODL gate was triggering it, it's just their gate setup issue I believe16:08
ihrachysoverall the query seems to me rather generic: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/445596/16:09
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ihrachyshence delete request ^16:09
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ihrachysnext was "jlibosva fix delete_dscp for native driver: https://review.openstack.org/445560"16:09
ihrachysit's merged, yay. there are still issues in the job that bring us to the next item16:09
ihrachys"jlibosva to fix remaining fullstack failures in securitygroups for linuxbridge"16:09
ihrachysjlibosva: progress there?16:09
jlibosvaI attempted to make it work then I was pointed out kevinbenton started similar patch16:10
ihrachysis it conntrack issue reintroduced by kevinbenton lately?16:10
jlibosvathe thing is that iptables driver in linuxbridge agent doesn't remove conntracks due to missing zones16:10
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jlibosvaconntracks == conntrack entries16:11
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ihrachysmakes sense, gotta have a closer look, though it's failing in unit tests right now16:11
ihrachysjlibosva: so we proved it fixes the failure?16:11
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jlibosvaI don't think that patch is final.16:11
ihrachysI see test_securitygroup(ovs-hybrid) is failing there16:12
jlibosvaI'll try to support kevin or take over if needed16:12
jlibosvaihrachys: which means it fixes the LB one :)16:12
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ihrachysor that it breaks ovs?16:12
jlibosvathat's a side-effect, yes. It still needs some work to be done16:12
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jlibosvathat's all I can tell about that16:14
ihrachysI see test_controller_timeout_does_not_break_connectivity_sigkill bubbles up since we landed it16:14
jlibosvayep, I reported a bug about that some time ago I think16:14
* jlibosva searches16:14
openstackLaunchpad bug 1673531 in neutron "fullstack test_controller_timeout_does_not_break_connectivity_sigkill(GRE and l2pop,openflow-native_ovsdb-cli) failure" [Undecided,New]16:15
jlibosvaI haven't looked at it yet though16:15
ihrachysjlibosva: I understand that fullstack is not voting but would probably make sense to tag those bugs as gate-failure nevertheless16:16
ihrachyssince they may indicate something actually broken16:16
jlibosvaihrachys: alright16:16
ihrachysand since we want it voting this time :)16:16
ihrachysI added the tag16:16
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ihrachysok next item was "anilvenkata to follow up on HA+DVR job patches"16:17
ihrachysthe patch is still up for review: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/383827/16:18
ihrachysthere were some back and forth comments, seems the patch is finally ready for merge16:18
ihrachysclarkb: would be cool to see you revisit ^16:19
ihrachysok, next item was "jlibosva to figure out the plan for py3 gate transition and report back"16:19
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jlibosvathis is still 'to be done'16:19
ihrachysok let's repeat it16:20
jlibosvacan you please move it to the next week?16:20
ihrachys#action jlibosva to figure out the plan for py3 gate transition and report back16:20
ihrachysnext was "manjeets respin https://review.openstack.org/#/c/439114/ to include gate-failure reviews into existing dashboard"16:20
manjeetsihrachys, done16:20
ihrachysI see the patch was respinned yesterday: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/439114/16:20
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manjeetsdashboard will look like https://tinyurl.com/lqdu3qo16:21
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ihrachyscool, let's review that and then chase infra to get it in16:21
manjeetsscroll all the way to end16:21
ihrachysack. I would like to see it higher the stack16:21
ihrachyssomewhere near Critical16:21
manjeetsthat'll be one line change i believe I can do that16:22
ihrachyswithout gate, we can't land anything, so it would make sense to give it a priority16:22
ihrachysand... that's it for action items from the previous week16:22
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ihrachys#topic State of the Gate16:23
*** openstack changes topic to "State of the Gate (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)"16:23
mlavallequite a few!16:23
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ihrachysmlavalle: as always, makes it easier to track things16:24
ihrachysseveral breakages happened the prev week that we dealt with16:24
ihrachysone was a hilarious breakage by os-log-merger integration that was hopefully unraveled by https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:fix-os-log-merger-crash16:24
ihrachysturned out os-log-merger was not really too liberal about accepted output16:24
ihrachysthen there was a eventlet induced breakage from yesterday fixed by https://review.openstack.org/#/c/447817/16:25
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ihrachysthere is a follow up for the patch here up for review: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/447896/116:25
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ihrachysthere is still a gate breakage by an OVO test up for review here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/447600/16:26
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ihrachysit's not consistent, but may hit the gate sometimes16:26
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ihrachyssince it's unit tests, we gotta make it stable before people are used to recheck16:26
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ihrachysany other fixes that we are aware that will fix some gate failures?16:27
jlibosvanot that I'm aware of16:28
* manjeets remember oslo-log-merger crashing multiple jobs 16:30
ihrachysmanjeets: that is fixed and discussed above16:30
ihrachys#topic Gate failure bugs16:30
*** openstack changes topic to "Gate failure bugs (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)"16:30
ihrachys#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bugs?field.tag=gate-failure16:30
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ihrachysI am wondering about https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/162710616:30
openstackLaunchpad bug 1627106 in neutron "TimeoutException while executing tests adding bridge using OVSDB native" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Terry Wilson (otherwiseguy)16:30
ihrachyshas anyone seen it lately?16:30
manjeetsihrachys, yea i noticed that from jenkins results16:30
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ihrachysthe query is at http://status.openstack.org/elastic-recheck/#162710616:31
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ihrachysand it shows 0 fails in 24 hrs / 0 fails in 10 days16:31
ihrachyswhich apparently means that we squashed it somehow :)16:31
ihrachysotherwiseguy: ^ are we in agreement?16:31
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otherwiseguyihrachys, I *hope* so :)16:32
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ihrachysok let's close the bug and see if it shows up again16:32
* otherwiseguy dances16:32
ihrachysnice job everyone and especially otherwiseguy16:32
manjeetsotherwiseguy, \o/16:33
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ihrachysI also believe we can close https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1632290 now that metadata-proxy is rewritten to haproxy?16:33
openstackLaunchpad bug 1632290 in neutron "RuntimeError: Metadata proxy didn't spawn" [Medium,Triaged]16:33
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jlibosvaotherwiseguy rocks16:33
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otherwiseguyjlibosva misspelled "openstack"16:34
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ihrachysthe only place the metadata logstash query hits is this patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/401086/16:35
ihrachyswhich is all red16:35
ihrachysso it's not unexpected that metadata is also borked there16:35
ihrachysI will close the bug16:35
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ihrachysI am looking at https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1673780 and wonder why we track vpnaas bugs in neutron component16:37
openstackLaunchpad bug 1673780 in neutron "vpnaas import error for agent config" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to YAMAMOTO Takashi (yamamoto)16:37
ihrachysit's not even stadium participant16:37
manjeetsihrachys, would it make sense to have gate failures at Top before RFE's ?16:37
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ihrachysmanjeets: yeah, probably16:38
ihrachys#action ihrachys to figure out why we track vpnaas bugs under neutron component16:38
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ihrachysanother bug of interest is this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1674517 and there is a patch from dasanind for that: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/447781/16:39
openstackLaunchpad bug 1674517 in neutron "pecan missing custom tenant_id policy project_id matching" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Anindita Das (anindita-das)16:39
ihrachysas you prolly know we switched to pecan lately and now squash bugs that pop up16:40
mlavalleyeap, they are going to show up now16:40
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mlavallebut it's the right time to do it, early in the cycle :-)16:41
manjeetsihrachys, it will be now like  https://tinyurl.com/mj2uyw516:41
ihrachysmanjeets: +16:42
ihrachysthere were several segfaults of ovs vswitchd component16:43
ihrachyssee https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/166990016:43
openstackLaunchpad bug 1669900 in neutron "ovs-vswitchd crashed in functional test with segmentation fault" [Medium,Confirmed]16:43
ihrachysand https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/167260716:43
openstackLaunchpad bug 1672607 in neutron "test_arp_spoof_doesnt_block_normal_traffic fails with AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'splitlines'" [High,Confirmed]16:43
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ihrachysI don't think we can do much about segfaults per se (we don't maintain ovs)16:44
ihrachysand afaik in functional job, we don't even compile ovs from source16:44
ihrachysbut the second bug is a bit two sides16:44
ihrachysone, yes, it's a segfault16:44
ihrachysbut that should not explain why our code fails with AttributeError16:45
ihrachyswe should be ready that ovs crashes, and then we may get None from dump-flows (or whatever is called there)16:45
ihrachysI was thinking that latter bug should be about making the code more paranoid about ovs state16:46
ihrachysit's ofctl though, which is not default driver, so maybe not of great criticality16:46
ihrachysotherwiseguy: thoughts on ovs segfaults?16:47
otherwiseguyihrachys, I haven't looked at the crash bugs unfortunately (other than a cursory "oh, ovs segfaulted. that's bad".16:48
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ihrachysI don't recollect segfaults in times when we were compiling ovs16:49
otherwiseguyI'd love for a vm snapshot to be stashed away in that case that we could play around with the core dump etc., but ...16:49
ihrachysotherwiseguy: yeah16:49
ihrachysotherwiseguy: I don't think we collect core dumps16:49
ihrachysotherwiseguy: just dumps would be helpful16:49
ihrachysno need for the whole vm state16:50
otherwiseguyat least a thread apply all bt full output or something16:50
ihrachysmaybe it's just oversight.16:50
ihrachysanyone want to chase infra about why we don't collect core dumps? :)16:50
ihrachysI suspect it may be a concern of dump size16:51
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otherwiseguyare core dumps really that useful without the environment they were created?16:51
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ihrachysotherwiseguy: you have config and logs; you can load debuginfo into gdb to get symbols16:52
otherwiseguyif you have *exactly* the same libraries, etc.16:52
ihrachyswe have exact rpm version numbers16:52
ihrachysI don't think it moves so quick you can't reproduce the environment as in gate16:53
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ihrachysin the end, it will be glibc and ovs-whatever-lib and some more, but not whole system16:53
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ihrachysbtw .rpm -> .deb above, it's xenial16:54
ihrachysok we gotta figure out something, at least patching neutron so that not to crash so hard16:54
ihrachysI don't see any more bugs in the list that may be worth discussing right now16:55
ihrachys#topic Open discussion16:55
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)"16:55
manjeetsihrachys, even though it is related with upgrades but somehow ci16:55
ihrachyshttps://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:new-neutron-devstack-in-gate is slowly progressing, if you have spare review cycles, please chime in, there are some pieces in neutron16:55
ihrachysmanjeets: shoot16:55
clarkbI think ideally people would be replicating locally for the vast majority of failures. Then for those that fail to reproduce we figure out grabbing a core dump specifically for that16:55
manjeetsgrenade-multinode-lb is mostly failing on one kind of cloud16:56
clarkbhas anyone tried running ./reproduce.sh and then hitting ovs until it segfaults/16:56
ihrachysclarkb: it happened like twice in last weeks16:56
manjeetson which instance brings up time out according to me16:56
manjeetsit passes on ovh, osic clouds but fails on rax16:56
clarkbihrachys: ah ok so ya in that case I think you'd set it up to handle that specific case16:56
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ihrachysclarkb: so we would cp /var/run/*.core or wherever they are stored into logdir?16:57
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ihrachysideally like /var/run/ovs-vswitchd*.core or smth16:57
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manjeetsI am experimenting tempest_concurrency=2, which 4 by default on rax if that is causing failure on rax node for failure over smoke tests16:58
clarkbihrachys: ya, you may also need to set ulimit(s)16:58
ihrachysmanjeets: yeah, may be worth that16:58
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ihrachysmanjeets: at least to understand if it's indeed the case of concurrency and load16:58
ihrachysmanjeets: I think it fails rather often to catch it with rechecks?16:59
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manjeetsrecheck also depends on which cloud it get placed on I want to make sure if concurrency is not one breaking things16:59
ihrachysmanjeets: ok let's follow up in gerrit17:00
ihrachyswe are at the top of the hour17:00
ihrachysthanks everyone17:00
manjeetssure thanks17:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 21 17:00:17 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ci/2017/neutron_ci.2017-03-21-16.00.html17:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ci/2017/neutron_ci.2017-03-21-16.00.txt17:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ci/2017/neutron_ci.2017-03-21-16.00.log.html17:00
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jlibosvathanks, bye17:00
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* notmorgan pretends to not be here... dangnabbit... ok maybe time to make coffee while I wait.17:52
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bretonthat feel when wake up 10 minutes before the alarm17:52
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thingeeankur-gupta-f4: we're going to bring up https://review.openstack.org/#/c/330027/ in the tc meeting. This is going to help with the visibility of vendors issue http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-January/110151.html17:55
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thingeeankur-gupta-f4: what do you think about my last comment for dealing with the target statuses?17:56
ankur-gupta-f4I agree.17:56
ankur-gupta-f4It will need some work17:56
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ankur-gupta-f4Neutron just merged its version of feature classification yesterday as well.17:57
thingeemugsie and I think sdague mentioned about this following the os-api-ref model17:57
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thingeeankur-gupta-f4: ^17:57
thingeeI'm not sure I know what that means17:57
ankur-gupta-f4We can ask in the tc meeting. When is it?17:58
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thingeeankur-gupta-f4: an hour17:58
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mugsiethingee: it means have this as a separate sphionx extension17:58
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sdaguethingee: what I mean was, don't add it to oslo.sphinx17:59
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sdaguestart a new library17:59
mugsieso the feature classification can be versioned separatly17:59
ayoungKeySTONER! ASSEMBLE!18:00
lbragstad#startmeeting keystone18:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 21 18:00:08 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is lbragstad. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:00
* thingee runs18:00
lbragstadping agrebennikov, amakarov, annakoppad, antwash, ayoung, bknudson, breton, browne, chrisplo, cmurphy, davechen, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, edtubill, gagehugo, henrynash, hrybacki, jamielennox, jaugustine, jgrassler, knikolla, lamt, lbragstad, kbaikov, ktychkova, morgan, nishaYadav, nkinder, notmorgan, portdirect, raildo, ravelar, rderose, rodrigods, roxanaghe, samueldmq, SamYaple, shaleh, spilla, srwilkers,18:00
lbragstad StefanPaetowJisc, stevemar, topol, shardy, ricolin18:00
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lbragstadagenda #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting18:00
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lbragstadmaybe next week we will start doing roll call18:01
bretonyes, that would be useful18:02
bretoni think the list will be twice less after that18:02
lbragstadand give people and opportunity to opt into the ping list again18:02
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* lbragstad makes a note18:03
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lbragstadalright - we have a lot to do today so let's go ahead and get started18:03
dstaneki bet you can just look at the speakers in the last 10 meetings18:03
lbragstad#topic Pike goals: deploy in wsgi18:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Pike goals: deploy in wsgi (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:03
lbragstadso far there are two community goals that have been accepted for Pike18:03
lbragstadthe first one is deploy in wsgi - which we already support18:04
lbragstadso that's good18:04
lbragstad#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/440840/18:04
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lbragstad#topic Pike goals: python3.5 support18:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Pike goals: python3.5 support (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:04
lbragstadthe second is supporting python 3.5 which we already do as well18:04
lbragstad#link https://governance.openstack.org/tc/goals/pike/python35.html18:04
notmorganexcept python-memcached*18:04
rodrigodsgreat :)18:04
lbragstadnotmorgan that's the only case where we don't support py3 deployments, right?18:05
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notmorganyeah, well also mod_wsgi is weird with py318:06
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notmorganbut you can make it work...ish18:06
lbragstad(and i think that would be mitigated after/if we move pymemcached18:06
dstanekpython-memcache has a py3 version....but i think we just don't like it18:06
notmorgandstanek: it has been spotty in actually working18:06
ayoungSummary     : Pure python3 memcached client18:06
ayoungURL         : https://github.com/eguven/python3-memcached18:06
dstaneknotmorgan: i use it all the time outside of keystone without any issues18:06
notmorganbehaves badly at times then gets fixed...then doesn't...18:06
notmorganbasically move to pymemcache18:07
ayounglooks to be actively worked on18:07
notmorganayoung: not really18:07
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notmorganI've talked with the maintainer, he has next to no time on it18:07
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notmorganI tried to take it over 3 different times18:07
ayoung https://github.com/linsomniac/python-memcached18:07
notmorganyeah linsomniac has no time18:08
ayoungWhat was last touched in December18:08
notmorgannot a bad dude, just overwhelmed18:08
notmorganwith other work18:08
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lbragstadthat happens18:08
notmorganpymemcached is maintained by Pinterest18:08
lbragstadbut should it stop us from asserting that pike goal?18:08
lbragstador do we need to move to pymemcached?18:08
notmorganwe should move to pymemcached18:09
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lbragstador use the goal as an excuse to move to pymemcached this release?18:09
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notmorganuse the goal as the excuse18:09
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lbragstadfair enough18:09
ayoungNeed to get it into the distributions.  Does Debian support it?18:09
dstanekif we want it then we should create a spec. it doesn't change the fact that we already assert py3 support18:09
notmorganiirc, everyone but fedora18:09
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notmorganwe support py3, except in some cases with other deps18:10
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ayoungShould not be hard to get the package accepted then18:10
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* notmorgan will brb, coffees18:11
ayounghttps://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/package/rpms/python-pymemcache/  Fedora has it, too18:11
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lbragstaddstanek well - it would prevent keystone from running in specific python3 environments, so i'm wondering if that is enough to keep us from asserting the goal?18:11
dstaneklbragstad: python-memcached is a packaging issue. there is no work for us there.18:12
notmorganayoung: cool.18:12
ayoungYeah we have python3-pymemcache.noarch18:12
lbragstador if the goal is only specific to keystone source?18:12
ayoungis just not memcached, only client18:12
notmorgandstanek: we need a driver for oslo.cache and a fix in ksm18:12
notmorgandstanek: not just packaging18:12
dstaneki can't speak to any mod_swgi issues, but uwsgi is fine with py318:12
notmorganuwsgi works fine, mod_wsgi is odd, but works, you need to be very specific about how you configure it18:13
dstaneknotmorgan: a driver to use python3-memcached?18:13
lbragstadoh - i was under the assumption that parts of python-memcached weren't py3 compatible18:13
notmorganit assumes py2 (iirc)18:13
ayoungSo mod_wsgi is the C code part18:13
notmorganlbragstad: python-memcache behaves weirdly in py318:13
notmorganayoung: yes18:13
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notmorganbut you can specify a different interpreter18:13
notmorganand it has always seemed to work18:13
notmorganuwsgi doesn't care.18:13
notmorganand works perfectly18:13
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notmorganbut by default py2 is what mod_wsgi uses18:14
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lbragstadok - so what i'm hearing is that we should be good to move forward with asserting that goal is completed for keystone18:14
lbragstadok - but we should move at some point18:15
notmorganbut we *should* ensure we move to pymemcache this cycle if at all possible18:15
lbragstads/move/move to pymemcached/18:15
lbragstadis anyone interested in helping dig into that work18:15
notmorganand make sure we have mod_wsgi for keystone configured to run in py3 mode in gate at least for some tests18:15
ayoungits a different package  in Fedora18:16
notmorganthe work is 1) write a dogpile/oslo.cache driver, 2) convert ksm to use pymemcached instead of python-memcached *or* to use oslo.cache18:16
notmorgan3) default keystone to use the new oslo.cache driver instead of the python-memcache one18:16
notmorganall should be very easy to do18:16
lbragstadi can only imagine that a spec is required for #218:17
notmorgan(you might need a minor layer of conversion, since pymemcache does not support the same interfaces as python-memcached)18:17
notmorganlbragstad: nah.18:17
notmorganjust do it as a straight up conversion.18:17
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notmorganthis imo, is a bug if we do a conver to pymemcache18:17
notmorgana spec if we move to oslo.cache18:17
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lbragstada spec if we move ksm to use oslo.cache?18:18
notmorganbecause that isa  much bigger change18:18
notmorgana lot of "setuyp the region" etc18:18
notmorgansame things we do in keystone18:18
notmorganwhere direct use of pymemcache is "create translation and instantiate correct object"18:18
notmorganno functional changes, no option changes, etc18:19
notmorganoslo.cache is a *much* bigger change18:19
lbragstadnotmorgan is there a noticeable advantage to one approach over the other?18:19
notmorganoslo.cache might impact swift more18:19
lbragstadi could see having everything using oslo.cache consistently being an advantage of simplicity18:19
notmorganpymemcache, if you use a simple translation object, would have no impact18:20
notmorganoslo.cache is more consistent with *all* of openstack18:20
dolphmlbragstad: ++18:20
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notmorganthose are the two sides of the concerns18:20
notmorgani prefer oslo.cache18:20
notmorgani think pymemcache might be *way* simpler to just drop in18:20
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lbragstadok - i can work on drafting a spec that details the work and at least propose it for review18:20
notmorgandepenmding on the amount of time folks have to dedicate to it18:20
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dstanekwe use python-memcache directly not because we wanted to limit dependencies right?18:21
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lbragstaddstanek or was it because keystonemiddleware's caching implementation pre-dated oslo.cache?18:23
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dstaneklbragstad: someone told me way back when that is was a dep thing. not sure who though18:23
dolphmlbragstad: that's definitely true, but i don't know if it's the *because*18:23
lbragstaddolphm me either18:24
lbragstadnotmorgan do you know?18:24
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lbragstadwe can circle back on this, too18:25
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dstanekwha... https://review.openstack.org/#/c/268662/18:25
ayoungdstanek, yes?18:26
lbragstaddstanek huh18:26
lbragstaddstanek looks like jamie was at least planning on moving to oslo.cache18:26
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lbragstadthat's a good enough answer for me18:27
lbragstadi can attempt to document this in a keystonemiddleware spec18:27
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lbragstad#action lbragstad to propose spec to keystonemiddleware detailing the steps required to move to oslo.cache18:27
lbragstad#topic Boston Forum Brainstorming18:28
*** openstack changes topic to "Boston Forum Brainstorming (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:28
dstaneklbragstad: ++18:28
lbragstadwho all is planning on going to the forum?18:28
dstaneklbragstad: there is a linked bug that you touched last too18:28
lbragstadapparently there are planning sessions and we have a deadline of April 2 to have things submitted18:29
dstaneki'm planning on going. just have to work out parking.18:29
lbragstad#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/BOS-Keystone-brainstorming18:29
gagehugoI might be going18:29
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* cmurphy likely going18:29
lbragstadi just need a rough idea of what our attendance might look like18:30
knikollai'm going18:30
lbragstadand possible topics18:30
ayoungI'll be there18:30
knikollait's a 15 min walk from my office18:30
lbragstadknikolla nice18:30
lbragstadi'm planning on organizing this just like we did for the PTG18:30
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dstaneklbragstad: are you planning on doing keystone sessions?18:31
lbragstadjust start dumping information in the etherpad and i'll go through and organzie it18:31
lbragstaddstanek that's what i'm trying to figure out18:31
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lbragstadgiven a list of topic, i'll try and organize them into buckets and propose them18:31
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dstaneklbragstad: i probably won't be in many of those. i'm planning on going to presentations and hallway talking about openstack18:31
lbragstadand since the deadlines is within a couple weeks - it would be nice if everyone threw their ideas down sooner rather than later18:32
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ayoungI'm presenting on the RBAC proposal, along with knikolla18:32
lbragstadi was under the assumption that the forum was going to be tailored for operator feedback, so i wasn't expecting to have to organize many keystone specific dev sessions18:33
ayoungHope to have a demo ready for then18:33
dstaneklbragstad: as in having a keystone "room" for operators to visit?18:33
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lbragstaddstanek yeah - i was for sure going to try and get that18:34
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ayoungWill also plan on having a Climbing gym night.18:34
lbragstadit seems like a lot of other projects are planning on having dev-like discussions (like the PTG)18:34
dstaneki'm actually hoping to learn more about the rest of the ecosystem18:35
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lbragstadok - maybe i'll swing by the release room and ask specific in there18:36
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lbragstadbecause I'm kind of unsure what to plan for based on who is going to be there in comparison to past summits18:36
lbragstadregardless, if there are things you want to talk about at the forum, please feel free to add them to the etherpad #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/BOS-Keystone-brainstorming18:36
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lbragstadanyone have any questions on the forum that they want me to relay?18:37
notmorgandstanek: in ksm, we uses python-memcached because swift passes us an object in some cases, and 2) history (not dep related)18:38
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notmorgansorry for the delay18:38
lbragstadnotmorgan no worries, thanks for the update18:38
* notmorgan is chatting with landlord about dishwasher and potential "giving up the ghost" issues.18:38
henrynash(henry joined, sorry to most unfashionably late)18:38
dstaneknotmorgan: thanks. i wish i could remember who told me is was a dep issue18:38
ayounghenrynash, !  You coming to Boston?18:38
henrynashno, unfortunately not18:39
lbragstadif there aren't any more questions specific to the forum we can move on18:39
lbragstadhenrynash o/18:39
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lbragstad#topic VMT Update: keystonemiddleware diagram and docs18:39
*** openstack changes topic to "VMT Update: keystonemiddleware diagram and docs (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:39
lbragstadknikolla gagehugo18:39
notmorgandstanek: in ksa it would be a dep issue18:39
notmorganbut we don't cache there18:39
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gagehugowip draft review is here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/447139/18:40
gagehugowhich has the updated arch diagram18:40
lbragstadknikolla gagehugo you two just need reviews on #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/447139/ ?18:40
lbragstadas of right now?18:40
gagehugoyeah, but those docs still need to be filled in more18:41
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lbragstadyeah - i parsed it a bit18:41
lbragstadgagehugo i need to review it again18:41
ayoungum... knikolla isn't the fetch from Memcache prior to the call to keystone?18:42
lbragstadgagehugo knikolla anything else VMT related?18:42
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knikollaayoung: nice catch.18:42
gagehugoah yeah18:42
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ayoungI thought we stored the token validations in memcache, so why else would we be doing memcache stuff if not to see if we have a valid token? Is there another reason?18:42
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knikollai'll double check to make sure, but it would make sense that memcache is checked first.18:43
gagehugoayoung I probably just put the numbers in the wrong order18:43
ayoungDo we also pass on the memcache key for the service to use later on?18:43
knikollaayoung: i do not think so. will check that too, see if they share config sections for that.18:44
ayoungso, it should be steps 3, then 4, then 2, with something to indicate that steps 2 depends on there being no response in step 418:44
lbragstadsounds like we can keep this going in the review18:45
lbragstadgagehugo knikolla ayoung thanks!18:45
lbragstad#topic pike specs18:45
*** openstack changes topic to "pike specs (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:45
lbragstad#info 3.5 weeks until Spec Proposal Freeze18:45
lbragstad#info 11 weeks until Spec Freeze18:46
ayoungRBAC in middleware should be there18:46
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ayoungits already approved, but in future state18:46
lbragstadlets spend the last 15 minutes on spec18:46
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lbragstadayoung i think its in ongoing18:46
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lbragstad#topic pike specs: Project Tags18:46
*** openstack changes topic to "pike specs: Project Tags (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:46
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lbragstadgagehugo o/18:46
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lbragstad#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/431785/18:46
lbragstadthis one is looking good18:46
ayounglbragstad, right, and knikolla is picking up active development of the server side piece.  It was working in Nov, but then has lain fallow18:47
lbragstadi only had a couple last minute/minor questions18:47
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gagehugoI am fine with limiting tags by # per request18:47
ayoungI think I am actually OK with this. I've seen how Kubernetes uses labels, and I think this will be done is somewhat the same way18:47
lbragstadgagehugo do we have an idea of what that number should be?18:47
ayoungthe real question is priority:18:47
gagehugonova uses 50 for instances18:48
lbragstadgagehugo they limit the total number of tags an instance can have to 50?18:48
gagehugono that was per request18:48
gagehugofrom that schema18:48
ayoungIE:  who can set the tag.  And I think that was the issue we had last time.  I could see a scalability issue with number.18:48
lbragstadi.e. bulk tag options are limited to 50 as a part of API validation?18:48
lbragstadayoung yeah - that was something edleafe was describing to me the other day18:48
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lbragstadit's better to have a bunch of smaller tags than to have one *massive* tag18:49
ayoungcuz I think the way that you explained it to me before it was a huge gaping security hole18:49
lbragstadwhich begs another question, do we want to do more strict validation on the length/size of individual tags?18:49
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ayoungyes. yes yes18:49
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ayoungmake sure they are URL safe18:50
lbragstadi think that's a requirement of the API WG18:50
lbragstader, a guideline that they suggest for tag implementation18:50
ayounggagehugo, BTW... you do realize that this is going to be a security nightmare, right?18:50
ayoungpeople are going to want to be able to tag their own projects, but that will get in the way with the "official" tags18:51
ayoungwhich will have security/billing info implications18:51
lbragstadayoung right now only a project admin is going to be able to modify tags18:51
ayounglbragstad, define "project admin"18:51
lbragstad"god-mode" admin18:51
lbragstadwhatever admin we use in the rest of our policy file18:52
ayounglbragstad, admin and is_admin_project=True?18:52
ayounglbragstad, gagehugo what if....18:52
ayoung2 distinct entities18:52
ayoungone which is the labels that a user can put on their own resources, the other which are admin only18:52
lbragstadayoung it should require the same rules as https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/master/etc/policy.json#L40-L4118:52
lbragstadat least until we have a better way to define granularity in policy that allows us to get around the security concerns18:53
ayounglbragstad, three little words:18:53
ayoungall the same issues come up here18:53
lbragstadI expect that to make this more complicated18:53
ayounga global set of tags is going to be a  nuisance18:53
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ayounglbragstad, I wonder if tags should be scoped to domains.18:54
ayounglets as henrynash18:54
ayounghenrynash, should tags be scoped to domains?18:54
lbragstadwe're going to run into similar permission issues with the limits proposal18:54
henrynashon tags my cut feel is probably yes18:54
dstaneki don't know how you'd do that18:55
ayoungdstanek, me either18:55
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dstanekif i want to see all the projects that i have access to that are tagged with 'dev' - which dev?18:55
ayounggagehugo, lets plan on a pretty heavy brainstorming session on this at the summit18:55
gagehugoayoung: ok18:55
dstanekto me tags are really an arbitrary string added by the user that has permission to modify the resource18:56
lbragstaddstanek ++18:56
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gagehugodstanek: ++ that is the intended goal18:56
ayoungdstanek, if the tag is used for some billing purposes, then you want to limit who can add that tag to any resource18:56
ayoung or remove it18:56
lbragstadthat's how i was thinking ofit18:56
ayoungso, if the end goal is to be able to tag all "high-cost" projects you can't do that without removing the ability to set tags from the project admin18:57
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lbragstadi would think that would be up to the deployer to make sure if they are using billing tags that they control who has that access18:57
dstaneklbragstad: how would they do that?18:58
ayoungso, if you want tags as a way to be able to self organize, that is a very different use case than the "tag all projects across domains for billing purposes"18:58
lbragstaddstanek currently our project api requires an admin18:58
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dstanekayoung: ++18:58
lbragstaddstanek i'd keep the tags api for projects consistent with that18:58
dstaneklbragstad: but you could have domain admins be able to edit and they there's a security hole for the billing usecase18:58
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dstanekhmmm...i have to think about this a little more. i just got done reading the spec and was pretty happy18:59
lbragstaddstanek can domain admins have the admin role?18:59
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lbragstad#link https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/master/etc/policy.json#L40-L4118:59
bretonno my topic today again, eh?19:00
dstaneklbragstad: that is our default policy and not the policy everyone necessarily uses19:00
ayoungTimes up19:00
lbragstadbreton wanna talk about in -keystone?19:00
lbragstaddstanek right19:00
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 21 19:00:36 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-03-21-18.00.html19:00
dstaneklbragstad: for example, i just something base on the cloud sample19:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-03-21-18.00.txt19:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-03-21-18.00.log.html19:00
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* clarkb looks around and waits for infra assemblage19:01
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zara_the_lemur__oh, wondered if I'd missed a memo19:02
* AJaeger waves at clarkb19:02
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* jeblair eats sandwich19:02
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fungiinfra team, something!19:02
* jeblair eats sandwich19:02
fungithis week we have action items assigned to and topics proposed by [refreshes agenda]19:03
fungiand cmurphy!19:03
funginow i don't feel quite so alone19:03
fungi#startmeeting infra19:03
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 21 19:03:52 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:03
fungi#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting19:04
fungi#topic Announcements19:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)"19:04
fungisomething something forum something19:04
fungi#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-March/114352.html if you think we should have specific forum sessions for infra. please tell me19:05
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fungioh, slightly wrong link (but mostly right)19:05
openstackRemoving item from minutes: #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-March/114352.html19:05
fungi#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-March/114352.html if you think we should have specific forum sessions for infra, please tell me19:06
fungimy perspective of infra at the openstack forum is that we fight for the users (like tron)19:06
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anteayahow are those links different?19:06
anteayathey look the same to me19:06
AJaegeranteaya: hidden white space? ;)19:07
fungiyeah, they're not :/ one more19:07
openstackRemoving item from minutes: #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-March/114352.html19:07
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anteayaand I was believing AJaeger19:07
fungi#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-March/114399.html if you think we should have specific forum sessions for infra, please tell me19:07
fungiTHAT one19:07
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fungias always, feel free to hit me up with announcements you want included in future meetings19:07
clarkbI'm going to propose a sessions to talk about https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-user-api-improvements but thats not infra specific and is instead fighting on light cycles19:07
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fungiclarkb: i'm in favor of anything involving lightcycles. go for it19:08
fungi#topic Actions from last meeting19:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:08
fungi#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-03-14-19.03.html Minutes from last meeting19:09
fungiianw try booting a Xenial-based replacement for planet.openstack.org19:09
ianwnot yet sorry ... will do19:09
fungieh, no worries19:09
fungi#action ianw try booting a Xenial-based replacement for planet.openstack.org19:09
fungi#topic Specs approval19:10
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)"19:10
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fungi#info APPROVED: Zuul v3: remove references to swift19:10
fungi#link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/zuulv3.html#jobs Zuul v3: remove references to swift19:10
fungi#info APPROVED: Zuul v3: update job trees to graphs19:10
fungi#link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/zuulv3.html#projects Zuul v3: update job trees to graphs19:11
fungidoesn't look like there are any new proposed for council vote this week, but keep an eye on open specs changes for any which are ready to be brought forward19:11
fungi#topic Priority Efforts19:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Meeting topic: infra)"19:12
funginothing called out specifically here for this week19:12
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fungi#topic puppet 4? (cmurphy)19:12
*** openstack changes topic to "puppet 4? (cmurphy) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:12
fungiexercising chair privilege to reorder my topic to teh end19:12
cmurphyfirst of all I apologize for being out of the loop for a while19:13
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cmurphyI wanted to gage current temperature on some old ideas19:13
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cmurphyis it worthwhile to try to move to puppet 4?19:13
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ianwwe use puppet 4 on fedora?  so things should mostly work?19:14
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fungii assume as long as we're using puppet we should try to keep current on it, but i grant that not everyone necessarily shares my ideas on that matter19:14
jeblaircmurphy: welcome back!19:14
clarkbI think its trickier in some of our more involved manifests (the test image builds are relatively simple and work on 4)19:14
cmurphyianw: that is my thinking, most of it should work already19:14
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fungiianw: i expect most of our puppet modules are not exercised on the f25 jobs19:15
clarkbhow soon will puppet 5 be a thing and should we just jump if its soon?19:15
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ianwahh, yes, for general deployment19:15
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* fungi also wonders about puppet 6 and 2319:15
cmurphyI think we we enhance some of our beaker testing we can do a better job of validating whether our modules work on puppet 419:15
cmurphyi got puppet-openstackci to work on puppet 4 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/447243/19:15
clarkbfungi: well I think 5 is in dev and coming soon? I may have confused myself though and am thinking of something else like ansible19:15
AJaegerpuppet 3 is not supported by puppet anymore AFAIK19:16
clarkbAJaeger: yes that is correct19:16
AJaegerso, no more security release if something comes up19:16
fungiclarkb: sure, i'm mostly wondering if we in general should stay on the puppet train wherever it leads, until we decide otherwise19:17
cmurphyalso the upstream modules are moving away from supporting puppet 319:17
clarkbAJaeger: ya which is a really small surface for us because we don't run the puppet master anymore. The upstream modules leaving us behind is the bigger issue I think19:17
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fungiyeah, the upstream puppetlabs support of puppet is less of a concern as we have distro packages we could use19:17
fungimodules on the other hand19:18
cmurphyrelatedly I was wondering if it would be a good idea to try to move openstack_project::single_use_slave into dib elements so that the nodepool images no longer need to depend on puppet19:18
pabelangerYa, we talked about that for zuulv3 things19:18
jeblairthat should be pretty close now, yeah?19:19
cmurphyit is?19:19
* fungi feels like zuulv3 is close for that matter19:20
jeblairi thought we made significant progress a while back.  what's left?  iptables, unbound, exim?  did the ssh key thing get worked out?19:20
clarkbssh is a non issue imo19:20
clarkbwe use devuser element and its done19:20
fungiit should be a fairly hollow class at this point, and i don't think we have any objections to cleaning out the rest of it19:21
cmurphyah I wasn't part of that19:21
pabelangerya, we have a base zuul-worker element now, we should start iterating more on that19:21
jeblairbindep was a big step for that19:21
clarkbbut yes iptables, unbound, exim would be the big ones19:21
ianwdeploying admin users too19:21
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clarkbiptables is likely straightforward as well and we could/should use a generic element for that if one doesn't arleady exist19:21
jeblairthe bindep part is done right, or do we still depend on puppet for fallback?19:22
clarkbianw: we had talked about just installing zuul/jenkins19:22
pabelangerianw: we discussed about stopping deploying admin users, in favor of using zuul19:22
pabelangerclarkb: ++19:22
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clarkbianw: and force admin users to get on the hosts the same as anyone else using the images locally19:22
fungiianw: i'm fine with not having my account on the workers and just logging in as jenkins^Wzuul19:22
cmurphyI can try to dedicate some time to finishing that up19:22
cmurphyand I can propose a spec to finish the puppet 4 work19:22
fungicmurphy: that would be highly appreciated19:22
clarkbfwiw I can't find a release date for puoppet 5 so I am probably mistaken on that being soon19:23
fungiboth the cleanup and any puppet 4 spec you want to kick around19:23
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pabelangerI would not object to createing ubuntu-xenail-ng in nodepool.yaml, and iterating on that in parallel for zuulv3 things19:24
pabelangerif we don't think that complicates things19:24
fungii doubt we even need a new image for that19:24
fungiunless there's something obvious i'm overlooking19:24
clarkbya I think just go piece by piece and test local builds should be good19:25
fungiwe already integration test with the nodepool devstack job right?19:25
pabelangerbut no ready-script things any more19:25
pabelangerbut, that should be okay19:25
bkeroThat seems simpler19:25
clarkbwe erady script on master19:25
fungiyeah, i'd like to assume our current testing is sufficient, or improve it19:25
pabelangerhowever, we don't use install_puppet.sh for our nodepool dsvm jobs19:26
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fungigranted, it's possible i live in some sort of fairly land19:26
fungifairy land too19:26
clarkbya its a much simpler ready script19:26
pabelangereither way, I am happy to help19:26
clarkbbut the machinery is there still19:26
anteayawould be great if you lived in fairly land, I'd go there19:26
fungiit's a fairly satisfying place19:26
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anteayasounds like it19:26
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fungiif you like compromises, i recommend it19:27
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fungicmurphy: anything else on this, or do you have what you need?19:28
cmurphyfungi: nothing else, just wanted to float the idea19:28
fungiidea floated, reinforced, and currently planned for condo units19:28
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fungi#topic Can we ever get rid of openstack-infra and openstack-dev Git namespaces? (fungi)19:29
*** openstack changes topic to "Can we ever get rid of openstack-infra and openstack-dev Git namespaces? (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:29
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fungithe shade split-out discussion has brought this back to the forefront19:29
* fungi gets link19:29
jeblairthe whatnow?19:29
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fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/446426 Move shade into its own top-level team19:30
jeblairi feel like someone buried the lede on this19:30
fungithe idea that shade, requestsexceptions and oaktree belong in a team unto themselves (probably with some/lots of infra people)19:30
clarkbin part beacuse apparently openstack wants to be able to consume these tools and can't do that unless they are part of openstack themselves?19:31
jeblairneat?  did i miss something?19:31
fungiavoiding making infra deliverables direct deps on openstack[tm] services19:31
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fungimaybe that should have been an infra meeting topic instead19:31
jeblairi'm sorry, i don't want to distract from the topic at hand.  but i am curious what newsletter i should sign up for so i get to hear about this sort of thing.19:32
fungimordred is not here to defend himself so feel free to have at him ;)19:32
clarkbI'm still not sure I agree with that premise (I also don't think that openstack should dep on shade and friends on principle/principal? english hard)19:32
ianwumm, does that mean our recent discussions about dib mean it's not appropriate for infra? (do not wish to derail, but seems similar)19:32
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clarkbjeblair: I only caught it bceause I saw the governance patch go by in #opensatck-dev19:32
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Shrewsjeblair: i think this came from a discussion in #openstack-shade between mordred and dhellmann19:33
Shrewsbased on scrollback i read19:33
clarkbianw: IMO it should be fine for openstack to consume libs from not openstack as long as the licensing is compatible and the software is not dead19:33
fungiianw: that's a good point if dib is a dep of official openstack[tm] services (the subsequent discussion there brought up that dib-utils is a dependency of tripleo)19:33
clarkbianw: which means it should be fine from that perspective to consume dib from infra and shade from infra19:33
clarkb(I separately think that shade being the hack around openstack's problems means that openstack itself shouldn't dep on it and should instead fix its problems)19:33
Shrewsclarkb: such yes19:34
fungishade as a dep of openstackclient and oaktree is what i think brings this discussion to a head19:34
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anteayaclarkb: oxford says 'principle' http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2011/08/principle-or-principal/19:34
Shrewsfungi: osc depends on shade? that's news to me19:34
Shrewsocc, yes, but not shade19:35
fungiShrews: oh, occ, not osc. you're right19:35
jeblairthe dependency thing doesn't make sense to me.  however, if folks who work on shade more than i do think that it should become a first-class deliverable of the openstack project because openstack needs this kind of interface to actually make it work, that sounds more compelling.  that's not what the commit message says though.19:35
fungiif folks who work on openstack are okay with the fact that openstack needs this kind of interface to actually make it work, i'm pretty sad19:36
fungibut that seems like where things are headed19:36
pabelangeris the issue more that we shade doesn't have stable branches?19:36
pabelangerwhich makes it hard to track against19:36
fungiand isn't under openstack release management19:36
jeblairi'd prefer realism to idealism either way.  :)19:37
Shrewsjeblair: Can't say it was a group decision. I was just informed about it yesterday myself and haven't put much thought into whether or not it is a good idea or not.19:37
fungifwiw, i haven't voted on it in either a ptl or tc capacity (yet). mordred did briefly run the commit message by me19:38
clarkbyesterday in #openstack-dev mordred said "I think the actual problems go away with restification"19:38
clarkbwhich is already the plan aiui19:38
jeblair(also, minor footnote for history, requestsexceptions was pulled from gertty)19:38
pabelangerclarkb: ya, that also makes packaging easier too19:39
clarkbjeblair: replacing shade's deps on python-fooclient and just talking openstack api with rest directly19:39
fungii think requestsexceptions was rolled into the proposal because shade depends on it19:39
fungiagain i highlight the term "proposal"19:39
jeblairoh, the packaging problems, yeah19:39
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jeblairrestification is great for that.  it makes nodepool packagable.  :)19:40
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clarkbmy only real concern here is that it feels like we are proxying the real issues with this proposal rather than directly tackling the problems that shade users face19:40
clarkbits possible that this is actually a good fix for those problems but its hard to know without calling them out more explicitly19:40
fungishade is one (fairly successful) attempt by openstack users to make sense of the openstack api landscape19:41
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jeblairclarkb: yeah, i'd love it if we can have a conversation about what's actually going on.  hopefully mordred will drop by and chat.19:41
jeblairfungi: i dunno if you want to get back to the actual topic, or if this one is more fun -- but yeah, i'd love to flatten the namespace.  :)19:42
fungihe indicated to me that he's unable to attend this week. i'm happy to table this discussion until he's around. it's not like that governance proposal is getting approved without my vote19:42
clarkb+1 to further flattening19:42
clarkbI think the biggest pain there is going to be devstack19:43
jeblairhonestly, the stackforge transition was doable.  the big thing is..19:43
jeblairyeah devstack :)19:43
clarkbbut maybe we just set up a window, do it, accept things will be broken and fix them as quickly as possible19:43
fungiso anyway, to un-derail (my fault really) this topic, the suggestion of moving shade to its own official team was met with the objection "but it's in the openstack-infra git namespace"19:43
jeblairwhich is irrelevant, but i'm happy to take the opportunity to clean it up (to further show it's irrelevant) :)19:44
fungi"users will be confused if openstack-infra namespace repos are dependencies of openstack proper namespace services"19:44
clarkbbut also we could use redirects more aggressively in places19:44
jeblairfungi: that's a quote said by a person?19:44
clarkbto alleviate the pain of transitioning19:44
pabelangerfungi: I am more confused my the statement :)19:44
fungiit would be relatively simple even now to redirect all namespaces on git.o.o19:44
jeblaira related question is: should we drop openstack/ from gerrit and git.o.o?19:45
fungipabelanger: so the supposition is that the current semi-random use of different git namespaces is non-random, because people want to assume patterns when they look at things, and so will assume misleading meanings19:45
fungijeblair: if we can, absolutely in my opinion19:45
jeblairi think that would be a nice benefit to help justify the pain19:46
ttxjeblair: yes19:46
ttxThat would remove assumptions altogether19:46
fungii thought it was the most compelling reason, honestly19:46
persia+1 to dropping namespaces instead of merging.19:46
clarkbjeblair: ++19:46
jeblairimagine how much "money" we will save by not making developers type so much!19:46
zara_the_lemur__hahaha, I was thinking how much it'd be nicer as a user though!19:46
zara_the_lemur__user of gerrit19:47
fungiend result being that github has openstack/\(.*\) and we serve git.o.o/\119:47
ttxwhich also makes sense, and clearly establishes github as a mirror19:47
fungiand project shortnames in gerrit (and storyboard for that matter)19:47
ttxoh, yes, that!19:47
pabelangerdon't forget tox.ini 128 char limit too :)19:47
* ttx always wanted to get rid of the prefix in storyboard19:48
jeblairso maybe we should just do all of those things at once?  pick a nice time in a cycle to do it (is there a nice time?).  lots of warnings, etc.  prepare project-config changes ahead of time.  use codesearch to help prep related changes.19:48
SotKyeah, it would make shortname support in storyboard much easier19:48
ttxjeblair: summit week?19:48
ttxat least it's not around release time19:48
fungior very early queens19:48
ttxand we expect lower activity19:48
jeblairttx: tempting -- though would it annoy people that we will "break" things while they are summiting?19:48
fungithis is something which would probably need wide advance notice (much like the stackforge migration, but without the sliding migration opportunity probably)19:49
ttxjeblair: only drawback I think is that we might have less bandwidth to fix it for people who are trying to do work during that week19:49
fungii expect to need to fix quite a lot19:49
pabelangerfungi: how much time in advance was the stackforge migration again?19:49
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jeblairfungi: yeah -- if we start now, we can probably do it in conjunction with the boston summit19:49
ttxI'll have to check how much would need fixing19:50
fungii don't remember, but my recollection is at least 4 months19:50
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ttxpeople will complain, but at least we won't hear about it anymore after that19:50
fungittx: i expect we'd end up manually bypassing gating for more than a few circular dep changes19:50
jeblairi'm not sure that much more than a month is very useful.19:50
jeblairbut obviously as much as possible.19:50
anteayathe people who will listen will listen if you give them a month, the people that won't listen won't listen regardless of how much time you give them19:51
fungiwell, there's a good point. with new redirects on git.o.o (and as usual on github) we really only need the dev community aware beforehand19:51
jeblairwe're at ~7 weeks before summit19:51
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fungimainly because there will be LOTS of .gitreview changes needed19:52
* EmilienM is hoping to have time for quick open discussion19:52
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fungii'm mostly convinced we should exercise admin oversight and just manually approve .gitreview patches in bulk even19:53
pabelangerthat might work19:53
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jeblairmaybe someone can write up a quick proposal and we can iterate on the ml?19:53
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jeblaircause it seems like we're generally in favor and have folks willing to do the work.19:53
fungiyeah, i'm happy to put this one forth, since it's my meeting topic19:53
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ttxI'll look up the release machinery for openstack/ or / stickyness19:54
fungiinfra people are generally in favor, the wider community may raise objections but as long as we have good answers that's probably tractable19:54
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ttx"takes less space on disk"19:55
fungi#action fungi put forth proposal to flatten git namespaces19:55
fungittx: now you're getting it19:55
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fungi#topic Open discussion19:55
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)"19:55
fungiEmilienM: what's up?19:55
EmilienMhey infra! I want your feedback & vote on moving DIB to infra project: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/445617/19:55
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ttxIIRC at one point we proposed replacing all git repo names with UUIDs to avoid renaming altogether19:55
EmilienMI think I resolved all concerns in my patch19:56
fungiEmilienM: funny, that just came up in the context of the reason shade was proposed to move out of infra ;)19:56
anteayattx: I want to see that patch19:56
jeblairit's okay, it's already in openstack/ :)19:56
fungittx: sold, as long as we can spell fun things in hexidecimal19:56
pabelangerare we doing any precise migrations this week?19:57
jeblairEmilienM: seems good to me -- it's important enough i'm happy to contribute to emergency maintenance if needed.19:57
fungipabelanger: ianw is still planning to test planet.o.o on xenial, jeblair and clarkb snapshotted lists.o.o to test in-place upgrading, and puppetdb can just be deleted for now until someone has time to fix the service entirely. that's all our remaining precise servers afaik19:58
pabelangerokay, I can dive into puppetdb19:58
fungipabelanger: if you want to difure out puppetdb and puppetboard, then awesome. otherwise feel free to remove the server from site.pp and delete it in the meantime19:59
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pabelangerfungi: sure, I'll propose a patch for removal19:59
pabelangermaybe get a spec up for ARA?19:59
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fungiseems like a reasonable alternative now that we ansibkle19:59
fungialso we're at time19:59
fungithanks everyone! productive meeting20:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 21 20:00:10 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-03-21-19.03.html20:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-03-21-19.03.txt20:00
jeblairansikibbles and bits20:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-03-21-19.03.log.html20:00
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clarkbre ARA, we may have to filter the raw puppet syslog20:00
clarkb(just somethign to keep in mind)20:00
ttxdims, dtroyer, EmilienM, flaper87, johnthetubaguy, sdague, stevemar: around ?20:00
ttxdhellmann, mtreinish and thingee are excused20:00
ttxmordred had a last-minute emergency20:00
ttxso small committee today20:00
ttx#startmeeting tc20:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 21 20:01:07 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"20:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'20:01
ttxHi everyone!20:01
* edleafe acts nonchalant20:01
ttxOur agenda for today is at:20:01
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee20:01
ttx(friendly reminder: you can all use #info #idea and #link to help build a more readable summary)20:01
thingeettx: I'm here20:01
ttxcool! I was misinformed20:01
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ttx#topic Add naming poll info for R release20:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Add naming poll info for R release (Meeting topic: tc)"20:02
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/44573320:02
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ttxI don't see any objection to this one, will approve now20:02
EmilienMship it20:02
* rockyg kicks some dirt, looks up and whistles a tune20:02
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ttxI think we can volunteer mordred in his absnece to drive the next steps ?20:02
* cdent waves from the kitchen20:02
* mugsie lurks20:02
ttx#action mordred to drive the R naming process20:02
* flaper87 likes volunteering mordred for stuff20:02
ttxOn a related topic, we need to renew part of the TC, voting on the week of April 1720:02
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fungialways a good bet to volunteer mordred in his absence20:03
ttxWhich means nominations/campaigning early April20:03
ttx#action ttx to contact election officials to organize April TC elections20:03
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ttxIn particular they may build in a campaigning week as that was requested by people after last election20:03
ttx#topic Add Golang CTI20:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Add Golang CTI (Meeting topic: tc)"20:04
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/41035520:04
ttxdtroyer: o/20:04
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ttxcare to introduce it ?20:04
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dtroyerThis is the common test interface for projects containing golang components, assuming mixed language projects may exist.20:05
ttxLooks like there are still a bunch of typos + late suggestions from sdague on target renaming20:05
dtroyerThere are a few things not completed yet, listed in the commit and inside the doc20:05
ttxBeyond that I'm fine with it as a first version. CTIs are living documents anyway20:05
sdagueyeh, on the target renaming the only thing I really think we want to consider is hardcoding of test types in here20:05
dimsttx : dtroyer : this is a living document right? wanted to ask before but slipped.20:05
dtroyerModulo sdague's comments I have a PS ready for the rest of those20:05
sdaguewe evolved that on the python side over time20:05
ttxdims: yes20:05
sdagueand seems weird to be that specific20:06
dtroyerdims: I believe so20:06
flaper87dims: dtroyer it's a living doc20:06
sdaguemake test, and make test-* would just seem to open up flexibility20:06
fungiseems fine to me20:06
dtroyerI called out both unit and functioanl testing targets because they are both specifically listed in the language requirements doc20:06
flaper87mod nits, I think it looks good20:06
fungiworth noting, whatever project's jobs come first will probably de facto define those anyway20:07
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fungias we'll mostly want to just reuse common job templates20:07
sdaguedtroyer: yeh, we should probably roll that back there, because I honestly think we should be more flexible to adjusting that stuff as we go.20:07
dtroyerwhether the 'test' target is specific or just calls some subset of the 'test-*' targets is just something we need to decide20:07
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mugsieI do like the suggestions sdague made for the makefile targets, but overall it looks good20:07
mugsiedtroyer: do we? as long at the "make test" call does something cnsistantly, do we really care?20:08
dtroyersdague: so just specify 'test' as the default testing and other test targets prefixed with 'test-*'?20:08
sdagueright, agreed20:08
sdaguemugsie: ++20:08
ttxdtroyer: want to quick-rev it ? Or need more time ?20:08
dtroyerI can quickly do that...20:08
* flaper87 has his voting pen ready20:09
johnthetubaguyand the plan is to merge what we have and work on the TODOs in a follow up patch?20:09
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EmilienMjohnthetubaguy: that's how I understand it too20:09
fungiif that's the plan, i'm still good with it20:09
ttxjohnthetubaguy: yes20:09
johnthetubaguycool, makes sense, just wanted to check20:09
ttxPython CTI wasn't built in a day20:09
fungi"living document" and all20:09
dtroyerjohnthetubaguy: yes20:10
johnthetubaguyyep, my preference is totally to iterate on it20:10
fungigo cti sprung from odin's forehead, fully formed, right?20:10
dimsnext PS, let's merge then iterate :)20:10
ttxNot Odin's, just Doug Graves's20:10
flaper87ttx: it took like 6 years :P20:10
* fungi mixed up odin and zeus anyway20:11
funginot the right time of day to be bringing mythological references into the discussion20:11
* dtroyer looks around suspicously for that Eric guy20:11
ttxOK, maybe let's cover another topic real quick while Odin^WDean revs the patch20:11
dtroyernew PS up20:11
ttxok, let's review it now then20:12
fungiin-meeting review is the best kind of review20:13
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ttxalright, lgtm20:13
EmilienM7 votes, we have quorum20:13
EmilienMdtroyer: nice work, thanks :)20:14
ttxdtroyer: thanks for pushing this!20:14
dtroyerthanks everyone20:14
ttx#topic Add a "docs:install-guide-verified" tag20:14
*** openstack changes topic to "Add a "docs:install-guide-verified" tag (Meeting topic: tc)"20:14
ttxis asettle around?20:14
annegentledarn, I don't see her20:14
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/44553620:15
EmilienMit's 10.14pm in London I don't think so20:15
johnthetubaguyits sure late over here20:15
ttxannegentle: oh. Ho!20:15
ttxnot 10.14. Merely 8.14pm20:15
johnthetubaguywell, 8.15pm, but thats worse in some ways20:15
annegentleheh, yeah20:15
fungiEmilienM: ever been to london? that's early ;)20:15
EmilienMerr, sorry I was confused20:15
ttxThis looks pretty close20:15
EmilienMfungi: ahah, I've never been :)20:16
* ttx looks up late revisions20:16
flaper87fungi: rofl20:16
ttxthingee has a -120:16
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thingeejust on the fixing of distro packages20:16
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annegentlethingee yeah there's some dependence there?20:16
mugsiebut, seen as the guide is package based, there is not much choice, is there?20:17
johnthetubaguything is the install guide requires the use of the distro packages right?20:17
mugsiejohnthetubaguy: yeah20:17
dtroyermaybe I missed this in the early going, what are the consequences if the testing is not completed in a timely manner?20:17
dtroyeris that a tag-per-release?20:17
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sdaguethingee: just commented on that20:17
ttxjohnthetubaguy: could it "support" some components not using distro packages ?20:17
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sdagueI think using the ops midcycle as representative of the whole community is a biased sample20:18
johnthetubaguyit does feel like this would be per release, in some ways, or reviewed20:18
fungiis it a priority review and testing list for the docs team?20:18
mugsiethe way it is currently laid out, I dont think it could ttx20:18
ttxdtroyer: tags are not pre-release. But things like the project-navigator use a snapshot of tags from release time20:18
thingeethe last time I spoke with the docs team on other projects getting their install guides in, it was agreed that we'd allow other forms of installations besides packages because of the reason given in comment20:18
ttxper-release* I mean20:18
thingeeI don't think the tag really helps anything otherwise.20:18
johnthetubaguyttx: its possible, just would be very strange20:18
flaper87the doc says it;'ll be reviewed per-release20:18
annegentlethingee as in, "is this installable" yeah20:19
thingeewell it helps the projects that can get attention from distros20:19
ttxflaper87: yes, a few weeks befroe so tha tthe tag is current when the release it out20:19
annegentlethingee but things are installable without distros20:19
thingeeannegentle: from previous ops midcycles it has been expressed that packages are not the most common way people deploy openstack20:19
mugsiethingee: the issues can be wiht the docs themselves as well20:19
flaper87ttx: right, which I honestly think is fine20:19
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annegentlethingee yeah20:19
thingeeand I don't believe the docs team should be dictating this20:19
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mugsiethingee: how do people deploy?20:19
fungiis the docs team overseeing the install guide testing?20:19
sdaguethingee: the ops midcycles are the top 1% of the operators20:19
ttxSounds like a nice cross-community discussion to have20:20
sdagueand are doing much more custom stuff20:20
johnthetubaguysdague: +120:20
annegentlethingee right, okay, so then is there a way for the docs team to get approved install instructions from each project at a certain point in time? I think there still is.20:20
sdagueI think it's fine to have a tag which is "we've verified the install guide"20:20
fungifollowing the docs ml, in the past install guide testing has been coordinated there at any rate20:20
flaper87ttx: +120:20
sdaguewhich assumes using packages20:20
sdaguebecause that's how install guides are, and work best for most people20:20
mugsiethingee: there is also deployment guides now as well20:21
EmilienMI agree that it would be a nice topic to propose at forumtopics.openstack.org20:21
annegentleEmilienM +120:21
thingeeI agree with with sdague it should be just verified. I still believe it shouldn't just be off of packages though.20:21
sdagueexcept, is it going to be any more informative there. We have to be really careful of sample bias in conversations like that.20:21
ttxsdague: I think "we ahve verifies the install guide is fine", however would be great not to bake install-using-packages in the tag, so that the install doc can evolve20:21
thingeeyou might as well request a tag "accepted by distros" then20:22
sdaguettx: given there are currently no install guides that do it a different way, it seems fine to me, and evolve it later20:22
fungii can understand the concern that distro-package-based installation instructions, at least where commercial distros are concerned, is a bit of a gimme to those companies20:22
annegentleThis was a good first point for discussion, I think it's good to write down what happens now and evolve.20:22
annegentlefungi yep :)20:22
sdaguefungi: well, it's been that way for the last 4+ years in openstack20:22
dtroyerthe problem with a "we verified it" tag is the time.  in 6 months with a new rreelase does that tag apply to the current one or the previously verified one?20:22
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fungisdague: totally aware, i've felt that way for 4+ years ;)20:23
thingeesdague: not sure that's true. mugsie can you comment on designate's deployment guide, since you can't have the right to the word of install guide?20:23
annegentledtroyer the docs team currently doesn't cut a stable branch for openstack-manuals until the install guide is verified, is that what you mean?20:23
mugsiethingee: the docs team has a deployment guide section20:23
annegentledtroyer and the stable branch is for the trailing-by-a-few-weeks release20:23
sdaguefungi: well, you can write a new guide if you don't like the current one :)20:23
annegentlesdague everyone else does ;)20:23
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ttxthingee: how about we approve the current version, and you submit a change to decouple it from package-based installs ? So far the install guide is all package-based so not much hurt in merging the first version as-is ?20:23
mugsie#link https://docs.openstack.org/project-deploy-guide/ocata/20:23
annegentlethingee yeah, the deployment guide is new this release20:24
dtroyerannegentle: I just left an example in a comment, but if Ocata is verified, when Pike rolls around, the status of the Ocata verification does not change, but if Pike is not verified what happens?20:24
annegentledtroyer no team gets the tag for Pike until verification20:24
fungisdague: yeah, i'm not arguing that the current install guides are bad, just that if they're only covering commercial distros then there's not a lot of gain in us regulating them and as a community eating the testing coordination20:24
thingeeI'm fine with everyone else approving it. I'm not going to approve it and kind of tired of fighting this.20:24
johnthetubaguythere is no "for pike" right, you would have to either loose the tag or keep the tag "from" that point in time where it is no longer verified20:24
dtroyerso there is a tag per release?20:24
ttxdtroyer: I suspect they would remove the tag before release20:24
johnthetubaguyyeah, what ttx said20:25
annegentlethingee it's better to not approve and say what you think the better fight is?20:25
annegentlethingee I'm not entirely clear of the alternative20:25
sdaguefungi: debian is in the current install guides20:25
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ttxdtroyer: no it's a tag updated once before every release20:25
dtroyerttx: but the Ocata status has not changed.  Or do we not let users have install guides for the relases they are actually deploying?  (based on annegentle no-branch comment)20:25
ttxa bit like we update the diversity tags regularly20:25
annegentlettx oh I mirespresented that then.20:26
sdaguettx: that does seem weird thought, I think we need branch tagging20:26
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fungisdague: debian is always hanging by a thread in the install guides due to lack of commercial backing20:26
mugsiesdague: ++20:26
* dtroyer has not actually used these guides so really doesn't know this bit20:26
fungisdague: or popularity, depending on what word you prefer ;)20:26
ttxsdague: we do tag governance repo around elections. We could tag around releases20:26
thingeeannegentle: my recommendation to you and asettle is to update the patch to be consistent with what has been discussed with previous guides. Don't lean on distro packages.20:26
annegentlettx the stable/ocata does not exist yet for openstack-manuals20:26
annegentlettx due to install guide issues20:26
sdaguettx: right, but if horizon was not verified in queens20:26
annegentlethingee ok thanks20:26
sdaguethen there is no history that is was in pike20:26
thingeeannegentle: it's not going to help adoption of the smaller projects otherwise.20:27
ttxsdague: except if we tag around release time20:27
ttxto capture the picture "then"20:27
sdaguettx: ok, I think we disagree on needing the historical bits20:27
sdaguebut we probably won't resolve here20:27
annegentlethingee yeah, do you think that wider is better than narrower? In other words, right now the goal with the install guide is "be able to launch a VM" -- of course that can change but also it indicates nova-centric20:27
dtroyeryeah, I think we do need history somehow…20:27
ttxsdague: I mean we use the word "tag" too much, and that we agree20:28
annegentledtroyer sdague okay, the idea being, these projects had install guides at these releases?20:28
ttxWe have history if we tag the governance repository around releases20:28
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jroll"Any projects that maintain project-specific Installation Guides must have this tag for their guide to be linked from docs.openstack.org." - this makes me sad, with the requirement of "work alongside the docs team to test the instructions". the reason we have out of tree install guides is because the docs team didn't have time to do this :/20:28
flaper87ttx: was going to propose that20:28
* jroll adds comment to gerrit, but wanted to point it out here20:28
thingeejroll: +120:28
fungijroll: i agree, it has a baked-in bottlenect20:28
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johnthetubaguyjroll: hmm, I missed that bit20:29
ttxOK, sounds like this one needs a bit more baking20:29
annegentlejroll thingee sure, good to note20:29
ttxI propose we continue to iterate on the review20:29
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flaper87ttx: ++20:29
annegentlethanks all20:29
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ttx#agreed continue to iterate on review20:29
annegentleI can try to summarize with info?20:29
dtroyerthanks annegentle20:29
ttxannegentle: please20:29
fungibottleneck of the docs team deciding when this governance tag can be applied seems fine, but needs more self-service20:30
annegentle#info Questions on timing of application of the tag: when is it applied, and what history can we include for past releases?20:30
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annegentle#info Concerns about distro dependence mean that as-yet-unpackaged projects felt like they couldn't be included; however those project can be included20:31
annegentle#info Need for re-assurance that frameworks and tooling are in place for self-service docs written by projets20:31
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ttxnice summary, thx!20:32
johnthetubaguywell, its the publishing restrictions that seem problematic I think20:32
johnthetubaguybut that captures it I think20:32
annegentle#help Propose a forum discussion for data on whether many people need distro packages for install instructions20:32
ttxthe "install guide" session20:32
fungiannegentle is a master of summary20:32
annegentlejohnthetubaguy we can talk more about that in the review yeah20:32
ttxannegentle: care to add the session to https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/BOS-TC-brainstorming ?20:32
ttxthat way we won't forget20:33
* ttx moves to next topic20:33
ttx#topic Add tag assert:never-breaks-compat20:33
*** openstack changes topic to "Add tag assert:never-breaks-compat (Meeting topic: tc)"20:33
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/44656120:33
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ttxmordred is not around but we should still complain about his change20:33
ttxAs stated in my comment, I'd like to make sure this is realistic, and desirable20:33
sdaguehonestly, I'd rather table for mordred to be around20:33
ttx(since tags should drive desirable behavior i think)20:33
ttxhe told me he would take our feedback in20:34
sdagueI'm not quite sure I understand the purpose of this, and would like him to express it20:34
ttxah, ok, fair20:34
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ttxI encouraged him to reorder his patches so that the shade stuff can be approved without this one20:34
ttxwhich will likely take more time20:34
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dimsi like the steps in "If a breaking change is accidentally released,"20:35
flaper87sdague: mmh, I guess if it's not clear enough from the tag definition then it's probably a bad sign of the patch itself?20:35
dimsdunno if we have that already somewhere else20:35
ttxsdague: probably something missing in the rationale section yes20:35
* ttx moves on20:36
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ttx#info will be discussed when mordred will be around, sdague would like to hear him speak about it20:36
ttx#topic Open discussion20:36
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)"20:36
ttx* FYI on Unified Limits20:36
ttxsdague: floor is yours20:36
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EmilienMttx: I have one for later20:36
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/440815/20:36
ttx#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-March/114230.html20:36
ttxI have several!20:36
sdagueso there is a spec, and a called out email thread (which also went to ops list)20:36
sdaguewe've got agreement in a subset of folks over a new approach to limits that would store them in keystone20:37
sdagueas part of the path to a real hierarchical quota solution20:37
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sdaguebut, it would be really good to get more folks engaged there to make sure making a big shift like this isn't going to freak people out later20:38
sdaguewe are dangerously close to having a plan here that I think will work20:38
sdaguewhich emerged out of the PTG20:38
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sdagueso... tell your friends, dig in if this is something you have thoughts on20:39
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* johnthetubaguy loves sdague's plan20:39
dimssdague : a PTL mailing list would have been handy?20:39
ttxsdague: do you want to expose the plan to more users at the Forum, or will it be too late for that ?20:39
sdaguettx: the intent is to be working on implementation by then20:40
sdaguemy timeline is that we're going to give it this week, and next for feedback, then make the go no go on the concept20:40
sdagueand I need to write up the detailed interface adds for keystone still20:40
thingeesdague: setup a cross-project meeting?20:40
sdaguebut the keystone team is pretty good with this so far20:41
sdaguethingee: maybe?.... honestly, during Pike it's basically 100% keystone work20:41
ttxsdague: anything more on that ?20:41
thingeesdague: could've argued that with the servce catalog tng?20:41
sdaguethingee: plan is here - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/440815/4/specs/keystone/backlog/unified-limits.rst@19320:42
sdaguettx: nope20:42
ttx* Moving "Split out tempest plugins" to Queens potential goals20:42
ttx#link  https://review.openstack.org/36974920:42
ttxRather than abandoning this one I'll bootstrap the Queens goal directory and then move this one to a Queens potential goal20:42
ttxunless someone objects...20:42
ttx#action ttx to set up Queens goal directory and move https://review.openstack.org/369749 to it20:42
sdagueseems fine, would be good to have mtreinish around for conversation around it as there still seems to be some friction20:43
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fungidims: with my ptl hat on, i don't know that a ptl-only ml is a great way to reach teams which are so out of the loop that their members ignore the more general discussion lists20:43
EmilienMttx: to we want all sessions from https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/BOS-TC-brainstorming recorded into http://forumtopics.openstack.org/ ?20:43
ttxwill be a change on the governance repo anyway, so we'll rediscuss it20:43
ttx* Forum topics20:43
jrollfungi: ++20:43
ttxEmilienM: yes we are now at the stage where we should formally propose the results of the brainstorming20:43
ttxThe website is up at:20:43
ttx#link http://forumtopics.openstack.org/20:44
dimsfungi : problem is many folks complain later on (ex placement service)20:44
EmilienMttx: I'll do it20:44
* fungi relies on other team members to point discussions out to him20:44
ttxLooking at the TC brainstorming, we should convert that in a series of proposals, before the deadline on April 220:44
ttx#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/BOS-TC-brainstorming20:44
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EmilienM#action EmilienM to grab sessions from https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/BOS-TC-brainstorming and propose them to http://forumtopics.openstack.org/20:44
ttxAnything that you think wouldn't make a good proposal ?20:44
ttxOr should be merged before being proposed ?20:44
sdaguettx: what is the forum going to look like logistically?20:44
jrollI know nobody here runs that cheddar install, but as a note, it sends the launchpad auth over plain text :(20:44
fungii think i know who runs that cheddar install20:45
ttxthe "TC vision" one looks a bit fuzzy20:45
fungijroll: you'll be happy to know that your actual auth happens between you and launchpad and is over https20:45
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ttxsdague: fishbowl setup, like cross-project sessiosn at old design summit20:45
sdaguebecause I'm still a little confused on what kind of track / day structure is being attempted to be created, and I don't think I'm the only one confused20:45
jrollfungi: yeah, just the oauth token, idk how risky that is20:45
fungijroll: but i agree, it's not great that cheddar asks for authorization over plain http20:46
ttxthingee: we have... 3 parallel rooms over 4 days ?20:46
jrollsdague: +120:46
fungijroll: not terrible, but also not great, if that counts as an answer20:46
ttxsdague: I thought I sent an email about that20:46
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jrollfungi: :)20:46
* ttx checks20:46
sdaguettx: you might have20:46
bauzasshould we propose project-specific sessions into forumtopics.o.o ?20:46
* thingee checks too20:46
sdaguebut it definitely doesn't feel like it sunk in20:46
ttxcan't force people to read20:47
sdagueand given that the answer isn't "just like last time"20:47
sdagueit needs to be pretty heavily over communicated20:47
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EmilienMsdague: ++20:47
ttxthingee and fifieldt are the contacts on the Foundation staff side. EmilienM and dhellmann on the TC side20:47
fungifrom an infra team perspective, i got the impression we fit more as users/operators in the feedback spectrum and so should show up for sessions but not necessarily have coordinated things to propose there20:48
ttxsdague: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-March/113459.html20:48
thingeettx: verified three rooms20:49
ttxthingee: let's plan another thread around Forum specifically20:49
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ttxlike repeat the deadline, the submission site, and the structure (4 days / 3 rooms / fishbowl)20:50
sdagueand probably examples of sessions that were run during past summits that would be appropriate20:50
jrollttx: "cross-community discussions" doesn't necessarily mean "cross-project", right?20:50
jrolland will these be 40 minute sessions, as usual?20:50
sdagueI think right now there is a bunch of self censoring because no one is sure if their stuff is appropriate20:51
ttxjroll: the idea is to have discussions we can't have anywhere else because a part of our community is missing20:51
ttxsdague: EmilienM's original email gave examples20:51
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jrollttx: I think that answers my question, thanks20:51
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sdaguettx: non of those were sessions that were proposed in past events right? Those were new whole cloth ideas.20:51
ttxjroll: we can have double-slot sessions where needed, so 40 or 90min I would say20:51
ttxbut then I'm not on the selection committee :)20:52
ttxsdague: hmm, sounded like old sessions20:52
ttxwith actualized names maybe20:52
ttxEmilienM: is it what you wanted to cover ?20:52
sdagueok, I missed barcelona, so maybe they were there20:52
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EmilienMttx: yes, I'll work on https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/BOS-TC-brainstorming this week and put something into cheddar20:53
ttxsdague: some session ideas were brand-new because the old format did not leave any room for them. Like Appdev-feedback oriented sessions20:53
EmilienMttx: I'll probably ask for reviews from TC team20:53
ttxEmilienM: the "TC vision" entry looks a bit fuzzy to me. You migt want to confirm before copying it over20:53
EmilienMttx: noted.20:54
ttx* Vision exercise feedback20:54
ttxTwo weeks ago after the Board+TC+UC meeting we started working on a TC vision20:54
ttxAnyone wants to say anything on that ?20:54
johnthetubaguydims and I are working on getting a draft together to bring lots of etherpads into one20:54
jrollis there a rough timeline for the "rest of us" seeing the output of that?20:54
mriedemthat's this thing right? http://superuser.openstack.org/articles/community-leadership-charts-course-openstack/20:54
ttxmriedem: no20:54
sdaguejroll: first week of April20:54
jrollcool, thanks sdague20:55
sdaguethat's the target for getting things into sharable state, so pretty soon20:55
ttxmriedem: on the day after that one we did go through an exercise to produce a draft of a vision for the TC itself20:55
sdagueand with enough time for people to ponder pre Boston20:55
jrollyep :)20:55
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ttxmriedem: the article is about the Board+TC+UC meeting where we tackled strategic questions20:56
fungithe concern is that it's supposed to present a unified voice of the current tc, so distributing it in an incom,plete state risks implying opinions we don't all agree on20:56
sdaguemriedem: it was similar, but this is a bit different.20:56
jrollfungi: yeah, I totally get it. just curious / excited to see it20:56
fungijroll: me too! ;)20:57
ttxGoal is to have something to present before Bosto, definitely20:57
* zaneb too :)20:57
ttx* Next week meeting20:57
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ttxI'll be traveling around meeting time next week, so I may not be around for the meeting20:57
dimsso, this is a vision for the TC itself, not a technical direction for openstack :)20:57
sdagueit is probably worth a write up of the process when the whole thing gets out there as well so we have a reference like the superuser article to explain how we got here20:57
ttxI may be having dinner with flaper87 instead20:57
dimszaneb : jroll : ^20:57
ttxAny volunteer to chair the meeting ? I'll work on agenda and all20:57
jrolldims: indeed20:57
sdaguedims: well, a bunch of it bleeds through :)20:57
ttxand might end up being present20:57
fungidims: well, seems to me like a vision for the tc _and_ technical community we lead/represent20:57
* thingee disappears as mai tai appears and plane is landing20:57
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ttxthingee: good timing20:58
fungidims: but not a vision for openstack the software20:58
dimsfungi : sdague : tempering expectations :)20:58
zanebdims: aware of that, but it's blocking the next thing, which is to have a technical vision of openstack20:58
fungiyeah, there is certainly overlap20:58
flaper87ttx: \o/20:58
dims++ zaneb20:58
EmilienMttx: I can try20:59
ttxvolunteer for sharing next week meeting in case I'm too stuffed of currywurst to chair ?20:59
ttxEmilienM: thanks!20:59
fungiflaper87 and EmilienM can fight over it20:59
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EmilienMonly if you're helping me :D20:59
dimshere's a plug for zaneb's effort https://review.openstack.org/#/c/447031/20:59
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ttxwell flaper87 mighy have currywurst overdose as well20:59
flaper87fungi: I'll pass this time, I want currywurst21:00
ttxand we are out of time21:00
ttxThanks everyone21:00
fungiflaper87: me too, but it probably doesn't ship well21:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 21 21:00:28 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-03-21-20.01.html21:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-03-21-20.01.txt21:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-03-21-20.01.log.html21:00
ttxflaper87: my hotel has a "currywurst package"21:00
oneswigThanks ttx21:00
EmilienMttx: I'll make my best to be prepared21:00
ttxwhich means breakfast included and a currywurst.21:01
fungithat's downright frightening21:01
oneswig#startmeeting scientific_wg21:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 21 21:01:13 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is oneswig. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)"21:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'scientific_wg'21:01
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oneswigAlas, all this talk of currywurst has made me hungry21:01
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oneswig#chair martial_21:01
openstackCurrent chairs: martial_ oneswig21:01
martial_hello stig21:01
trandlesyeah...mid-afternoon doldrums have taken hold and currywurst isn't helping21:01
martial_hi tim21:02
rbuddenhello everyone21:02
oneswig#link OK here's an agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Scientific_working_group#IRC_Meeting_March_21st_201721:02
oneswigGood afternoon America :-)21:02
oneswig#topic WG round-up from Milan21:03
*** openstack changes topic to "WG round-up from Milan (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)"21:03
oneswigWas anybody else present or was it just me?21:03
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martial_oneswig: nope sorry, not me21:03
oneswig... in which case I'll do my best to share what I'd learned from a WG perspective21:03
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flanders_Spill the goss ;)21:04
Guest81586Hi there21:04
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oneswigFirst up, our hosts in Milan were excellent, just great21:04
oneswighi y'all21:04
oneswigThere was one discussion which may require a little follow up21:04
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oneswigThe team at OSIC were looking for test case workloads for testing live migration21:05
oneswigAnd they didn't have anything representative for science.21:05
Guest81586Do you have more details?21:05
oneswigI am not sure of the finer details.  Unfortunately the guy I spoke to is on vacation this week.21:06
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oneswigI believe what they want is a heat stack (or equivalent) that deploys some busy busy workload that runs for long enough for them to experiment with migrating21:06
oneswigAnd at the end, a yes/no pass fail21:06
oneswigHi b1airo!21:06
oneswig#chair b1airo21:06
openstackCurrent chairs: b1airo martial_ oneswig21:06
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oneswig#link might be further details here (but I don't recall it) https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/MIL-ops-live-migration21:07
martial_oneswig: any use of ansible in that model?21:07
oneswigmartial_: I'd have thought that's a good fit.  Create a long-ish running workload - easy thing to initiate the infrastructure for that with ansible21:08
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oneswigSo... how are we all doing with our cloud-native deployment of science workloads ... ?21:08
oneswigyes it's on my list too21:08
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b1airooneswig, if i wanted cloud native i'd go to azure21:09
martial_oneswig: related to ansible, they just posted their videos from their recent meet in DC, see: https://www.ansible.com/videos-ansible-automates-201721:10
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oneswigInteresting you'd say that.  From what I've heard recently Oracle bare metal's the new king of the hill21:10
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b1airoi took "cloud-native" to be more about application architecture...21:11
mrhillsmanoneswig izaak can speak more to the workload when he gets back21:11
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mrhillsmanin particular the framework21:11
oneswigHi mrhillsman, thanks for dropping in!21:11
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oneswigmrhillsman: can you give examples of other test cases you're working with?21:12
Guest81586Oneswig: are you planning a dinner event like in Barcelona?21:12
oneswigb1airo: I was thinking of the packaged deployment, cluster-as-a-service creation etc.21:12
mrhillsmanwe defined the workloads ourselves to get the framework to a "v1" status21:12
mrhillsmandetails can be found here - https://github.com/osic/ops-workload-framework21:13
oneswigGuest81586: would very much like to - Boston coming up on the agenda21:13
mrhillsmanizaakk has more detail than me however21:13
mrhillsmanhopefully the readme sheds some light for you in prep for that meeting when he gets back21:14
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oneswigmrhillsman: how would you like people to contribute - pull requests?21:15
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b1airoi'm confused by the VM types described in that readme21:16
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b1airo"Large VM ( CPU: 6, RAM: 4g, Disk: 6g)" - doesn't seem particularly large?21:17
oneswigb1airo: I wonder if it's large for something that can be live-migrated?21:18
b1airohmm not in our experience21:18
Guest81586Maybe it's european21:18
oneswigAre you doing live migration with NUMA passthrough - does that work?21:19
oneswigGuest81586: European VMs, compact and bijoux...21:19
b1airooneswig, no we're not, though i believe it is supposed to work if the destination can meet the topology requirements, however in our case we are also doing SRIOV VF passthrough so live-migration is out due to that21:20
b1airoalso this sounds odd: "Spans 60 disk workers that fills up the disk by creating 1 gb blocks of data."21:20
b1airoin the context of a VM with on 6G of disk how is that supposed to work...?21:21
martial_(looking at the agenda, I think we will need to move to the next topic soon, even if we come back to this one later if time permits)21:21
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b1airomrhillsman, i must be misunderstanding something? ^^^21:21
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mrhillsmani think there will be a discussion with izaakk about the ask21:21
oneswigmartial_: thanks, good prompt.  I think we'll need to follow up with izaakk and mrhillsman21:22
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mrhillsmani do not have detail unfortunately but hopefully looking at the repo gives you some context rather than having to wait a week to get the same info21:22
mrhillsmanit is a good starting point21:22
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martial_mrhillsman: thanks :)21:22
mrhillsmanstepped away, apologies21:23
mrhillsmanthe sizes are related to the defaults21:23
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martial_#topic Boston Summit Forum - contribution to discussion21:23
*** openstack changes topic to "Boston Summit Forum - contribution to discussion (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)"21:23
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mrhillsmanhope in discussion with different stakeholders is that things will change based on need21:23
martial_#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/BOS-UC-brainstorming-scientific-wg21:24
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martial_so the link for the brainstorming etherpad is above21:24
oneswigThanks martial_ - so the activity on the list indicates it's time to collect these diverse thoughts together21:24
oneswig#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/user-committee/2017-March/001856.html21:25
martial_yes, I wanted to try to go from the etherpad to a list of topic to be discussed and a list of people assigned to those topics21:25
martial_I could not find the 1-to-1 match from the etherpad history21:25
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martial_I figure we ought to have a person working on each topic present this discussion21:26
martial_what do you think?21:27
martial_(in a way that was my question to flanders_ yesterday)21:27
oneswigSeems like a good idea to find advocates for each21:27
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b1airorecall the original instructions were to include a leader for each21:27
trandles"Please add contact information next to your topic, so we can contact you for formal "forum" session posting. Thank you"21:28
oneswigflanders_: Can people participate in this stage who will not be present at the forum?21:29
flanders_And have that leader identify which upstream contributors to invite, who can act as advocates for actions arising from forum sessions.21:29
martial_trandles: yes, I added this earlier today21:29
flanders_oneswig: not sure, would post that Q publucally on UC ML21:30
b1airooneswig, can't see why not - at least half the effort is just in getting it organised21:30
martial_looking at the history, I think "Supporting Pre-emptible instances" is "Adam Huffman"21:30
oneswigOK I can take a couple of these up provisionally21:30
flanders_b1airo: +1 but would be great for other WGs to understand this.21:31
oneswigmartial_: equally likely that aloga_ would advocate it21:31
oneswigCan we pick up tasks using #action?21:31
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Guest81586I got to go now but I'll check the meeting log for details on any Boston event21:32
oneswigOK thanks Guest8158621:32
b1airoi am guessing Tim is still happy to take "Quota management pain points, workarounds, cross-project needs"21:32
martial_Maybe we ought to email the SWG ML with the link to the etherpad to try to determine our "champions"21:33
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martial_because reading the pad/history I am not sure who to contact directly mostly21:33
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oneswigmartial_: agreed, it's not a reliable method21:34
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martial_okay, I will send an email to the scientific wg with this request post our meeting21:35
martial_this ought to help us concretize a list of topics21:36
oneswigThanks martial_21:36
martial_April 2nd is coming fast after all :)21:36
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martial_I have not seen must additional discussion on the Cloud Declaration21:37
martial_(must -> much)21:37
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martial_#topic Other Boston Summit planning21:38
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*** openstack changes topic to "Other Boston Summit planning (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)"21:38
oneswigIn general the lightning talks format of the BoF seemed popular.21:39
oneswigAny thoughts on that?21:39
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martial_oneswig: seems feasible, although if the foundation is taking care of hte schedule it might be good to ask people how long they expect to discuss a topic for?21:40
martial_(sure there are the after summit hours :) )21:40
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oneswigmartial_: the guillotine on overrunning talks?21:41
martial_oneswig: my worry exactly :)21:41
martial_flanders_: any opinion on this topic?21:41
oneswigSurely easy enough to enforce21:42
martial_oneswig: the question is are those going to be during the SWG discussions?21:42
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oneswigI haven't had confirmation but my understanding is we have a meeting session and a BoF session.21:43
martial_#link https://www.openstack.org/summit/boston-2017/call-for-presentations/preview/17698  Scientific Working Group planning meeting21:43
oneswigThis would be the Bof21:43
b1airoi think judging from feedback on how we ran things in barcelona people wanted more time for discussion21:43
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martial_#link https://www.openstack.org/summit/boston-2017/call-for-presentations/preview/17699 Scientific OpenStack BoF21:44
b1airothey liked the lightening talks, but there was a general feeling we need more time in the planning session21:44
martial_b1airo: and a bigger room :)21:44
b1airothat also21:44
oneswigmy bad - thought a 100-person meeting was best avoided! :-)21:45
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martial_oneswig: many scientists :)21:45
b1airoactually i didn't mind, makes it easier to hear people and others are more likely to shutup and listen :-)21:46
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martial_okay, so no consensus on this at this point21:47
martial_we can open this for question to the champions21:47
oneswigmartial_: no I think a bigger room for the WG meeting makes more sense21:47
martial_I can add it to the email (format + time needed)21:47
martial_I think there was also a question about a dinner for the SWG? any plans at this point?21:48
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b1airo"Martial Michel: To be extended."21:48
martial_trandles: you were involved in this discussion, I remember21:49
oneswigI'm looking for a volunteer on the ground for the evening social21:49
trandlesmartial_: which discussion?  dinner?21:49
martial_do we have a boston local?21:49
martial_trandles: yes, was I incorrect?21:49
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trandlesI passed along info that a Boston-local friend provided me21:49
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martial_I remember, thanks Tim21:50
b1airothough you won't actually be there trandles ?21:50
trandlesyeah, I'll be there21:50
trandlesI get the feeling that I'm being volunteered :P21:50
b1airoah ok great21:50
b1airoit is feeling that way isn't it... weird21:50
flanders_Volontold ;p21:50
martial_trandles: not really, just asking politely :)21:50
trandlesI'll submit21:50
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b1airoawesome! i love it when oneswig doesn't have to do everything21:51
martial_b1airo: stig is not going to be there either sadly21:51
oneswigI'm pretty pleased with that - great work all21:51
trandlesoneswig: if you have any likely sponsors for me to hit up...21:52
martial_look at that, one topic, 10 minutes :)21:52
oneswigtrandles: I am sure, we can work that.21:52
b1airono, some nonsense about a child's birthday - my own family are guilting me about being away for my birthday21:52
oneswigit was my birthday in Barca ...21:52
jmlowedidn't keep me from the Austin summit21:52
hogepodgeWith time running out, can I have the floor for the last topic?21:52
oneswigtake it away hogepodge21:53
b1airoplease hogepodge..?21:53
martial_oneswig: mine as well :)21:53
martial_#topic Future Online Analysis Platform Workshop21:53
*** openstack changes topic to "Future Online Analysis Platform Workshop (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)"21:53
hogepodgeIn a couple of weeks I'm going to a workshop to talk about OpenStack and scientific computing21:53
hogepodgeI have a 30 minute talk, and I'm hoping to incorporate examples from existing systems.21:53
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b1airois that the future platform thing Kate Keahey was looking for someone to attend?21:54
jmloweI have a quick question, any chance anybody will be at the HPC Advisory council meeting in Lugano next month?21:54
b1airocool, looking for slideware etc?21:54
oneswigjmlowe: see you there/21:54
hogepodgeI was hoping that members of the WG could forward me some talks or slides they've given that I could incorporate into my talk21:54
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hogepodgeyes :-D21:54
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jmloweoneswig: excellent21:54
hogepodgeyou can send it to chris at openstack.org21:54
jmlowehogepodge: we have a pile of stuff for our roadshow21:55
oneswighogepodge: I'll see what I've got that might help.21:55
martial_should we crowdsource the ML as well ?21:55
hogepodgesome background on the event: "developing capabilities that would help us transform HPC resources to be more usable to experimental communities running analytics rather than simulation codes "21:55
b1airohogepodge, sure will share a deck or two and you can just ping me any questions21:55
rbuddenhogepodge: i can deliver some slides as well21:55
hogepodge" those researchers need more on-demand access and more data management capabilities than the traditional data centers allow. The attendees will be primarily people designing various elements of these solutions — plus a panel of application scientists."21:55
hogepodgefantastic, thank you everyone!21:55
hogepodgeI'm going to be in Berlin the week before the event, so I'm trying to get the slides put together this week.21:56
oneswigTough crowd hogepodge21:56
b1airohogepodge, so basically sounds like they are saying, "we want IOPS oriented filesystems now please" ...?21:56
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oneswigb1airo: is that on our etherpad yet?21:56
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jmlowehogepodge: going to pitch openstack extras for scientific clouds at Lugano a few days later21:56
flanders_Serverless compute and frictionless data for everyone!21:56
b1airooneswig, which?21:57
hogepodgeoneswig: b1airo: et. al. I'm also interested in any advice on how to communicate to the audience21:57
oneswigb1airo: forum topics...21:57
hogepodgeThat's it for me. thanks everyone!21:57
oneswigjmlowe: me too - don't steal the show :-)21:57
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martial_#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/BOS-UC-brainstorming-scientific-wg21:57
b1airooneswig, are you referring to my IOPS comment or the general topic?21:57
b1airoanyone planning to attend ISC ?21:58
jmloweoneswig: no worries, I barely get by on my public speaking abilities21:58
oneswigb1airo: iops.  I made a comparison between bare metal RBD and virtualised Cinder a couple of weeks ago.  ouch21:58
hogepodge(I'll be taking copies of the book too, so that work will also be represented)21:58
martial_hogepodge: great thanks21:58
oneswigb1airo: no plans as yet for ISC.21:58
martial_hogepodge: I owe you this conversation for DockerCon as well21:58
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b1airoor the HPC Knowledge Meeting (http://www.hpckp.org/) ?21:58
oneswighogepodge: you have more copies?  Can I get ~50?21:59
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b1airooneswig, sounds fun - what was the virtualised backend ?21:59
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hogepodgeI ordered for dockercon21:59
martial_hogepodge: see you there then21:59
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b1airoso basically, baremetal ceph versus virtual ceph?22:00
hogepodge100 copies22:00
oneswighogepodge: let me know if you have more - conference is iirc 10-12 april22:00
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oneswigb1airo: correct - quite different (as you might expect)22:00
oneswigAh, times up22:00
b1airointeresting thing to figure out tuning for though22:01
hogepodgeoneswig: yeah, we'll have 100 copies available22:01
martial_hogepodge: seems reasonable. Dcon will be big, so we just have to make sure not everybody walks away with a copy right away, otherwise you will be done in minutes22:01
oneswiggoing... going...22:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"22:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 21 22:01:36 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)22:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2017/scientific_wg.2017-03-21-21.01.html22:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2017/scientific_wg.2017-03-21-21.01.txt22:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2017/scientific_wg.2017-03-21-21.01.log.html22:01
trandleso/ later folks22:01
hogepodgemartial_: see you there!22:01
oneswigthanks all!22:01
b1airohogepodge, oneswig - make them work for it, like openstack t-shirts22:01
oneswigb1airo: each will be won with blood sweat and tears...22:02
rbuddenttyl later22:03
martial_good meeting :) I will email our ML to see who can help "champions" tasks/topics22:03
oneswigkeep it up everyone! :-)22:03
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martial_bye all22:03
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