Wednesday, 2017-05-24

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joehuang#startmeeting tricircle01:01
openstackMeeting started Wed May 24 01:01:28 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is joehuang. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.01:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tricircle)"01:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tricircle'01:01
joehuang#topic rollcall01:01
*** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: tricircle)"01:01
joehuang#info joehuang01:01
dongfeng#info dongfeng01:02
zhiyuan#info zhiyuan01:02
yinxiulin#info xiulin01:02
Yipei#info Yipei01:02
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joehuang#topic feature implementation review01:03
*** openstack changes topic to "feature implementation review (Meeting topic: tricircle)"01:03
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joehuanghello, we have a break on the weekly meeting two weeks for boston summit and bugsmash01:04
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joehuangplease has a short description about your feature implementation01:04
yinxiulinI am implementing sfc function01:05
yinxiulinalready submint a patch for create and delete01:05
dongfengI prepare to implement routing pagination. still read neutron pagination source code.01:05
joehuangto Dongfeng, I think it's also good to implement the routing cli in python-tricircleclient01:06
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joehuangsorry, async job cli01:06
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joehuangI recall that async job api was implemented, but cli is lack yet01:07
dongfenguse command line to call async job api?01:07
joehuangyou can refer to pod routing cli implementation in python-tricircleclcient01:08
joehuangboth SDK and cli01:08
dongfengok. I'll have a try01:08
Yipeifor lbaas, already reinstalled the octavia with tricircle, plan to test lbaas in the new env. and check whether the amphora reboot happens01:08
joehuangThere are some patches to implement pod routing cli, you can refer to
joehuangok, look forward to the news of lbaas01:10
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dongfengto joe, thanks, I'll refer to those patch and try to implement async job cli.01:11
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joehuangthere are several bugs and feature to be implemented during OPNFV demo preparation, zhiyuan, could you have a summary of the bugs not fixed?01:11
joehuangduring the opnfv demo preparation, cli to fix abnormal async job is very helpful01:12
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zhiyuanWe found four bugs during the demo setup and two of them have been fixed in the bugsmash01:13
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zhiyuanthe two left are "Local FIP not created after central FIP creation" and "Bridge network segment ID conflicts with local network's"01:13
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zhiyuanhere are the bug links: and
openstackLaunchpad bug 1691918 in Tricircle "Local FIP not created after central FIP creation" [Undecided,New]01:14
openstackLaunchpad bug 1692415 in Tricircle "Bridge network segment ID conflicts with local network's" [Undecided,New]01:14
joehuang#info two bugs left  are "Local FIP not created after central FIP creation" and "Bridge network segment ID conflicts with local network's"01:14
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joehuanggreat, hope this bug fix can be landed in Pike201:14
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dongfengbtw, what's the time of pike2?01:15
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zhiyuanyes, before the fix, we need to (1) create a FIP then update it to associate with port (2) instead of creating local type network, try creating a flat/vxlan/vlan type network and specifying the AZ as region name01:16
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zhiyuanaccording to the schedule, pike-2 is from Jun 05 to Jun 0901:22
joehuangwe 'll release on Jun 0901:23
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dongfengok. got it01:24
joehuang#topic Pike-2 preparation01:25
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joehuangas what we just discussed, we'd like to release the pike-2 on Jun 901:25
joehuangso would like to see if there is any challenges01:26
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dongfengrouting pagination needs more time,01:27
zhiyuandon't own any feature task so it's fine for me :)01:27
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Yipeino challenges currently, but i might encounter some problems and need your help.01:29
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hejiaweiShould metering complete before Jun 9?01:30
joehuangQoS will be a challenge to land on pike-201:30
joehuangthe spec is still in review01:31
joehuangand code update is not so frequently01:31
joehuangfor metering, the spec is also in review01:31
joehuangif you want to land early, please update in time too01:32
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hejiaweigot it01:32
joehuang#topic open discussion01:33
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joehuangany other topic?01:34
dongfengfor pagination, dose it need reverse shown feature?01:34
joehuangwhat do you mean "reverse"?01:34
dongfengafter one page is listed, then list the previous page rather than next page01:35
joehuangneed to check nova api server list and neutron port list01:39
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zhiyuanneutron api support reverse01:40
joehuangfor nova, seems no reverse01:41
dongfengyes. nova has no reverse01:41
joehuangonly maker for next01:41
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joehuangok, nuetron seems do it better than nova in query support01:42
joehuangso follow neutron pagination01:43
dongfenggot it~01:43
dongfengnow no other topic for me01:43
joehuangother topic?01:44
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Yipeino for me01:45
RonghUIno for me01:45
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joehuangok, let's end the meeting01:46
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"01:46
openstackMeeting ended Wed May 24 01:46:05 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)01:46
openstackMinutes (text):
joehuangthank you01:46
dongfeng:) bye01:46
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gongysh#startmeeting tacker05:30
openstackMeeting started Wed May 24 05:30:05 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is gongysh. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.05:30
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tacker)"05:30
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tacker'05:30
gongyshhi everyone05:30
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gongyshwelcome to tacker meeting05:30
gongysh#topic roll call05:31
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gongyshsridhar_ram hi05:32
gongyshYanXing_an, hi05:32
YanXing_antwo man's date?05:33
gongyshYanXing_an, it seems there are two of us in the meeting.05:33
gongyshYanXing_an, lets start05:34
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YanXing_anhahaha, ok05:34
dkushwahasorry I am late05:34
gongyshdkushwaha, it is just on time.05:34
gongyshok, we have one more.05:34
gongyshdkushwaha, welcome05:35
YanXing_andkushwaha, nice to see you here05:35
gongysh#topic annoucement05:35
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*** openstack changes topic to "annoucement (Meeting topic: tacker)"05:35
gongysh1. meeting time change is requested at
gongyshonce merged, we will update the meeting time.05:36
gongysh2. we have merged 6+ patches last week. a big progress05:36
dkushwahagongysh, can we give +1 on ?05:37
YanXing_anWill send a email to declare the meeting time changes?05:37
* sridhar_ram rolls in ..05:38
gongyshdkushwaha, anyone can review.05:38
gongyshsridhar_ram,  come on.05:38
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gongysh#topic project activity05:38
*** openstack changes topic to "project activity (Meeting topic: tacker)"05:38
sridhar_ramapologies for the delay05:38
gongyshsridhar_ram, welcome05:38
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gongyshYanXing_an and me were thinking this would be a two-men date meeting.05:39
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gongyshour commit activities is still behind on the ranking board.05:40
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gongyshcore members should be more active.05:41
gongysh#topic bp05:41
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gongyshdkushwaha, do you have anything to say about your bp?05:41
dkushwahagongysh, I could not work much  on this in this week05:42
gongyshdkushwaha, ok, I have some more comments on it.05:42
gongyshwe should merge it before p2 deadline.05:42
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dkushwahagongysh, yes will update it.05:43
gongyshdkushwaha, this feature is of the first priority on feature completeness of this tacker cycle.05:43
dkushwahagongysh, I have a question , how can i get network_src_port_id05:44
gongyshdkushwaha, maybe your standalone CP01, or by input05:44
sridhar_ramdkushwaha: it is the neutron port uuid of the first VNFs ingress CP05:45
sridhar_ramdkushwaha: this is where neutron-sfc applies the classifier to steer traffic05:45
sridhar_ram.. in the chain05:45
gongyshdkushwaha, I think we can treat  the first part on path as the network_src_port_id.05:45
dkushwahagongysh, so it should be their before VNF instance creation?05:46
dkushwahasridhar_ram, ^05:46
gongyshdkushwaha, creates path (CP01->CP11->CP13->CP21->CP31)05:46
YanXing_ansridhar_ram, yes, it's the first point of flow classifier applied05:46
gongyshyou can put CP01 as the network_src_port_id.05:47
sridhar_ramdkushwaha: no, it can't be known before VNF-1 instantiates05:47
sridhar_ramgongysh: the string "CP01" is just a string label05:47
gongyshsridhar_ram,         requirements:05:47
gongysh          - forwarder: CP0105:47
gongysh          - forwarder: VNF105:47
gongysh            capability: forwarder1  #CP1105:47
gongysh          - forwarder: VNF105:48
gongysh            capability: forwarder3  #CP1305:48
gongysh          - forwarder: VNF205:48
gongysh            capability: forwarder1  #CP2105:48
gongysh          - forwarder: VNF305:48
gongysh            capability: forwarder1  #CP3105:48
gongysh        symmetrical: true05:48
gongyshthe string label is the same in forwarder path.05:48
gongyshshould be  the same.05:48
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sridhar_ramthat's fine .. as along as we don't hardcode or interpret the suffix number (01) in the CP05:49
YanXing_angongysh, i think network_src_port_id can not be CP01. In my testbed, it's the gateway port uuid05:50
dkushwahasridhar_ram, gongysh i am referring   and
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gongyshit specifies the network_src_port_id.05:51
gongyshwe still need a way to do the same thing in your spec.05:52
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YanXing_antraffic sent to network_src_port_id will be transfered the first forwarder VNF.05:53
sridhar_ramYanXing_an: I'm afraid you might be correct05:53
* sridhar_ram checking networking-sfc docs05:53
gongyshso if we do not take the first part of the path as network_src_port_id, we need another way to do it.05:54
dkushwahagongysh, sridhar_ram I am not clear, but I think I am agree with YanXing_an05:54
gongyshmaybe it is the input of the NS, just like the way we do in vnffg spec.05:54
YanXing_annetwork_src_port_id -> vnf1 -> cp1 -> vnf2 -> cp2 -> ...05:54
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gongyshYanXing_an, at, it should be network_src_port_id -> cp01 -> vnf1:forward1 -> vnf1:forwarder3 ...05:56
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sridhar_ramthis behavior will be dictated by neutron-sfc .. we can try automating finding the "upstream" router port where the CP01 network is connected to05:58
gongyshok, dkushwaha so we need to elaborate the spec  on the network_src_port_id05:59
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dkushwahagongysh, I need to look more into this05:59
gongyshin vnffg, we are using input parameter to deal with it.05:59
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gongyshalso for symmetric chain, we also need a network_dst_port_id.06:00
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gongysh30 mins past06:00
gongyshnext bps06:00
YanXing_angongysh, i will spend some time on this bp06:01
gongyshYanXing_an, thanks06:01
gongyshUse mistral to do vim reachability monitor06:01
gongyshwe have got two +206:02
gongyshcan anyone of you approve it?06:02
sridhar_ramgongysh: i'll do it06:02
gongyshImplement VNF monitor policies with Mistral workflow06:02
gongyshI have write one more06:02
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gongyshafter barbican, and these two specs,  we will remove the obstacle to scale our tacker server.06:03
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sridhar_ramgongysh: i need to review vnf-monitor spec, but a quick question .. does this also use polling from mistral_action back to tacker conductor06:04
gongyshto remove it, we need to enhance mistral itself06:06
sridhar_ramperhaps a dumb question, can mistral action listen on an "unique" rpc channel ..06:06
sridhar_ram.. can this channel.. arg.. topic saved in the tacker-db and used to "stop" mistral action ?06:06
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sridhar_ramtacker-conductor will be bombarded with polls from all the moinitored VNFs and VIMs06:08
gongyshsridhar_ram,  allow tacker conductor to notifyy the actions is one way to do it.06:10
sridhar_ramgongysh: exactly ...06:10
gongyshsridhar_ram, lets do this way before mistral fixes its problem.06:10
sridhar_ramgreat .. this will go a long way towards scalability06:11
gongyshsridhar_ram, thanks the idea.06:12
gongyshblock volumes support bp06:12
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gongyshit seems the author slept for a long time.06:13
gongyshAdd service assurance engine for E2E services06:13
gongyshthis should be dealing with some kind of design bugs in VNFFG06:14
gongysh#topic bugs06:15
*** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: tacker)"06:15
gongyshtrinaths, hi06:15
YanXing_anneed more reviews on barbican06:15
gongyshthis is YanXing_an's brbican integration06:16
gongyshYanXing_an, you need to consider the db migration06:16
YanXing_angongysh, ok, i will add it06:16
sridhar_ramThe reporter of is looking for some help06:17
openstackLaunchpad bug 1691792 in tacker "Can't create forwarding graph on tacker" [Undecided,Incomplete]06:17
gongyshand to consider the existed VIM which has no your defined key_type.06:17
sridhar_ramYanXing_an: i'll review ur barbican06:17
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sridhar_ram.. patchset06:17
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gongyshsridhar_ram, yes, but I think the reporter pasted the log on tacker client side, not tacker server side.06:18
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YanXing_ansridhar_ram, nice to have your review opinions. thanks06:18
gongyshso we are not able to tell what is happened on server side.06:18
sridhar_ramYanXing_an: sure06:18
sridhar_ramgongysh: agree, we need server logs ...06:18
gongyshI have no other bugs to talk about.06:19
gongyshsridhar_ram, I remember you have a patch to unified the openstack drivers.06:20
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YanXing_anif existed vim has key_type, it will use fernet_key in local file system06:20
sridhar_ramgongysh: yes, i need to revive it and re-spin ... will get to it next week06:20
YanXing_an-> has no key_type06:20
gongysh#topic open discussion06:21
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: tacker)"06:21
gongyshso what other stuff do you guys want to talk?06:22
YanXing_anI think we need validate tosca template, what do you think?06:22
YanXing_anfor example,
openstackLaunchpad bug 1693070 in tacker "Should only support one mgmt-ports" [Undecided,New] - Assigned to Yan Xing'an (yanxingan)06:23
sridhar_ramalso, there was this weird issue reported here ..
sridhar_rami was scratching my head06:24
gongyshsridhar_ram, 2017-05-23 12:46:42.704 8178 DEBUG tacker.vnfm.plugin [req-14c6d1e2-ec5d-4da8-b582-0d55236fea13 2db962522806470c98bc1c4c1be4c002 b078332877a243c3be1644d4ae77f439 - - -] unknown vim driver openstack in ['noop', 'openstack']06:25
gongyshunknown vim driver openstack in ['noop', 'openstack']?06:26
sridhar_ramyeah, but the type is 'openstack' from the vim-list output06:26
sridhar_ramYanXing_an: need to think a bit, if multiple mgmt CPs are valid for any particular use-case ..06:27
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sridhar_ram... i *think* it shd be okay to restrict it to one per VNF06:27
sridhar_ramneed to update this doc if we change this behavior ..
YanXing_anmaybe openstack is not added into infra driver06:29
YanXing_ansridhar_ram, yes, i will think it06:29
gongyshok time is up.06:30
sridhar_rammgmt-driver can be configured to accept a list of mgmt_ips and process it06:30
gongyshthanks everyone.06:30
YanXing_anif infra_driver not in self._vnf_manager:  maybe self._vnf_manager is empty?06:30
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"06:30
openstackMeeting ended Wed May 24 06:30:20 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)06:30
sridhar_rambye folks06:30
openstackMinutes (text):
gongyshlets go to tacker channel06:30
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oneswig#startmeeting scientific-wg09:00
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openstackMeeting started Wed May 24 09:00:32 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is oneswig. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.09:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)"09:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'scientific_wg'09:00
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oneswig#link Agenda is at
oneswigGood morning etc.09:00
oneswigverdurin sends apologies - conflict with STFC UK cloud working group09:01
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priteauGood morning oneswig09:03
oneswigHi priteau good morning09:03
priteauIt seems very quiet today09:03
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priteauIs everyone out enjoying the sunshine?09:03
oneswigIt is indeed.09:03
oneswigVery nice here.  I met with some of your colleagues from Oxford yesterday.09:04
oneswigSquare Kilometre Array workshop09:05
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priteauI haven't seen much OpenStack activity in Oxford yet. Cambridge seems way ahead.09:05
oneswigI was interested if Chameleon keeps track of the scientific papers generated using the system?09:05
oneswigWould probably be a quite sizeable collection if true!09:06
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oneswigThese are people from Oxford using an OpenStack system at Cambridge, that is true...09:07
priteauYes, we ask our users to communicate their publications when they request a renewal of their Chameleon project. We also search on Google Scholar, for those users who forget to do it ;-)09:07
oneswigDid you see the user-committee thread from Tim Bell?09:07
priteauYes, I read the thread.09:07
oneswig#link for the record
priteauI will check our publication list09:07
priteauI expect that many papers will just be using bare-metal nodes to run something else than OpenStack, they shouldn't really be in this archive09:08
oneswigThanks priteau, that's a great way to seed the collection.  I wonder how we could keep it current and maintained09:08
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priteauBut I will look out for any OpenStack-specific ones09:08
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oneswigWe've been mapping CephFS into our bare metal nodes as a home filesystem.  Does anything like that happen on Chameleon?09:09
oneswigIt's got some interesting attributes...09:09
priteauWe've set up Ceph as a backend for Swift so we encourage users to use the object store09:10
priteauThis sounds very interesting. Do you have more details about how you set it up?09:10
oneswigFrom within the bare metal instances?09:10
oneswigpriteau: I ought to write it up.  But for now, it's fairly straightforward.  We made storage pools for the project and generated a key that's shared between users of that project.09:11
oneswigThe key is provided to user instances via Barbican - but actually it's just some Ansible that grafts it into place and does the fs mount09:11
oneswigSo we could have used ansible vault (but I prefer this solution because the ansible goes up onto github)09:12
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oneswigThe other tweak I've been deploying on these nodes is a PAM module that enables ssh connections to be authenticated with Keystone09:13
priteauI am not familiar with the authn/authz in CephFS. If users can get root, is it a security risk?09:13
oneswigto their own project, quite likely.09:14
oneswigWe do pools and keys per project to contain the risk09:14
priteauAnd each bare-metal node is set up to talk to CephFS on behalf of only one project at a time?09:15
oneswigOn this system, the project admins deploy the 'appliance' and users login as users09:15
oneswigpriteau: correct - the instances only server one project09:15
priteauI see09:15
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priteauI would like to investigate something like that over the summer. It would be a good alternative to the lack of Cinder volumes for Ironic09:16
oneswigWe are seeing OK performance for larger writes but scattered IO and metadata is currently pretty poor.  There's a study to be done on how and why09:17
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oneswigpriteau: true - and using this key users can access ceph rbd direct too.  Not that anyone does at present09:17
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oneswigIt works for an appliance model, where automated middleware deployment can include fiddly site config09:18
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oneswigWhat's the news on the next phase of Chameleon?09:18
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oneswigpriteau: cinder volumes for Ironic is still undergoing active development from what I've seen.  Don't give up on that just yet...09:21
priteauoneswig: nothing new regarding the next phase at this point09:23
priteauIn the meantime we're starting work on upgrade our venerable Liberty installation to Ocata!09:24
oneswigAh interesting.  How is it deployed?09:24
priteauRDO + OpenStack Puppet09:24
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oneswigOur current project has now filled the system.  It needs a mechanism for resource reservation...09:25
oneswigEver heard of Blazar in Kolla?09:26
priteauWe'll probably stick to this approach at first to stay in known territory, but I have heard about this thing called Kayobe…09:26
oneswigha!  Step into my office :-)09:26
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oneswigIt's still going well for us.  Quite happy with it.  Adding Barbican to our deployment for example just worked09:27
priteauI don't know of anyone using Blazar in Kolla, but if we get to investigate Kolla, I will let you know09:27
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priteauAnyway, Blazar is following the same patterns as other OpenStack projects, so it shouldn't be complex to build images for it09:28
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oneswigIf the resource contention on our system gets more acute, we could make a case for integrating Blazar.  Are you still carrying local patches for it, or is everything upstream?09:28
oneswigonly last month!  Good to see some activity here.  Will definitely follow up on that.09:29
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priteauChameleon still has many patches locally (because we're still running Liberty), but upstream is fixing lots of issues. We're aiming for a solid release for Pike.09:31
oneswigI'd be interested to help with any investigation of kayobe.  Let us know if you get the chance.09:31
priteauWill do09:32
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oneswigOK, I don't think I had anything else to raise.  Any other news from you?09:33
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priteauWe had good discussions at the summit about preemtible instances. Because Blazar already needs to terminate instances from nodes at the end of a reservation, it might take responsibility for being a "reaper" service in general.09:35
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oneswigThat sounds good.  Does it overlap with work already done for OPIE in that respect?09:36
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priteauI haven't looked at OPIE yet, but I assume it would overlap. But Nova core devs want the reaper activity done outside of nova-{conductor,scheduler}09:38
priteauI don't think we'll have time to actively work on this in the Pike cycle though09:39
oneswigsorry - phone call09:41
priteauno problem09:42
oneswigIn the pike cycle I'm very interested in the scheduler properties and how they apply to Ironic09:42
oneswigMust have good potential for what you can do on Chameleon as well - it's a natural place for us to attach BIOS/RAID changes - the kind of "deep reconfigurability" Chameleon talks aobut?09:43
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priteauWe actually had few requests for changing BIOS settings09:47
priteauMostly making sure SR-IOV is enabled09:47
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b1airobelated greets09:47
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priteauHi b1airo09:47
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oneswigHi b1airo how's things09:47
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b1airogood good - school open night scavenger hunt done09:48
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oneswigexcellent.  It's just me and priteau so far and we were catching up on our bare metal projects09:48
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b1airohow do folks feel about pushing this slot out one hour later09:48
b1airoah ok, i thought it seemed quiet09:49
oneswigWorks for me.09:49
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oneswigAdam's out at a cloud workshop and sent his apologies.09:49
b1airoi'm quite keen to get ironic going at monash sometime soon09:49
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b1airowondering if anyone has experience using it in a v1 Cell ...?09:50
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oneswigb1airo: not that I'm aware of, although doesn't CERN have a cell of Ironic and weren't they running cells v1?09:50
priteauI am fine with changing the time slot09:51
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b1airoyeah i am sure CERN has at least played with Ironic but not sure if they have done it in their prod cloud09:52
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oneswigb1airo: can you put a mail out to os-ops on the time change?  Its worth getting a few more opinions09:53
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b1airoyeah certainly will09:54
oneswigb1airo: for a presentation I was looking for an image of M3 or Monarch infrastructure - there's nothing I could find, howcome?09:54
b1airoother option would be to pull it back a couple of hours, but i haven't looked at how that works TZ-wise09:54
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b1airooh.. like a picture of physical kit?09:55
b1airolove a bit of rack pr0n09:55
oneswigYes - usual kind of stuff, for a slide on "prior art"09:55
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oneswigIs that kind of filth banned in Australia or something??09:56
b1airoyou're presenting something soon?09:56
oneswigyesterday :-09:56
b1airohaha, yeah we are very conservative here don't you know09:56
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b1airoi will have to dig a bit, i don't actually have any such imagery for M3 on hand09:56
oneswigno problem.  It was much easier to find an image of Chameleon...09:57
b1airo4 (now 5) heterogeneously populated racks is a bit hard to make look nice for those purposes i guess09:57
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oneswigOK we are nearly out of time - anything else to cover?09:58
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priteauWasn't there something about the IRC channel?09:58
oneswigAh - true.  We have scientific-wg up and running and I believe the infra is eavesdropping on it and taking logs too.09:59
b1airoah great09:59
oneswigWhen the time change goes through, we could also do a channel change to meet on #scientific-wg09:59
oneswigseems like a good idea to me.10:00
priteauoneswig: I remember seeing discussion about doing meetings in non #openstack-meeting-* channels with arguments against it10:00
oneswigpriteau: got link to it?10:00
priteauI am looking for it10:00
oneswigah - time's up, we should clear off.  Follow up afterwards on it?10:01
oneswigMight be worth just having the discussion on the list10:01
b1airoyep, i'll email...10:01
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openstackMinutes (text):
oneswigthanks b1airo priteau - until next time10:01
b1airoPS: are you planning to come to Sydney?10:01
oneswigoh yes10:01
oneswigCan you make it over? :-)10:02
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parnexius10:59 *** NAMES @openstack _alastor_ _matthias_ _nonameentername aarefiev abramley ad_rien_ adisky_ adreznec Adri2000 aeng afazekas ahale aignatov aimeeu ajo akuznetsova alex_xu alezil aloga ALUVial ameade amit213 amitry amotoki amrith andreaf andreas_s andreykurilin AndyU anilvenkata ankur-gupta-f4 annegentle ansmith Anticimex apetrich_ aprice arif-ali armax armstrong arnewiebalck__ artom arxcruz aselius asett15:00
parnexiushtokolov asingh_ askb asselin ataraday ataraday_ aunnam awaugama aweeks ayoung banhgao baoli bastafidli_ bauzas bcafarel bdperkin beagles beekhof belmoreira benj_ betherly bkeller` bkero bkopilov blair bnemec bollig bradjones brault breton bryan_att bswartz bzhao CaptTofu__ cargonza carl_baldwin cburgess cdub cebruns_ cFouts cgoncalves chenying ChrisPriceAB cinerama clarkb claudiub clayg clayton cleong cmurphy15:00
parnexiusud coreycb csatari cschwede_ d0ugal d34dh0r53 dabukalam dalvarez dane_ dankolbrs dansmith darvon dasanind davidlenwell Daviey dbecker denaitre designbybeck devananda dewanee dgonzalez dhellmann diablo_rojo_phon dims dimtruck DinaBelova Dinesh_Bhor dirk dmacpher dmellado Dmitrii-Sh docaedo donghao dosaboy dougshelley66 Douhet dpaterson dpyzhov draynium dstanek dteselkin dtrainor dtroyer dulek DuncanT e0ne edleaf15:00
parnexiusondsw edwarnicke eeiden efried egallen eglute egon eharney ekcs_ electrofelix eliqiao EmilienM esberglu etoews fdegir felipemonteiro_ fguillot finchd flaper87 fmccrthy fnaval francoblanco francois freerunner frickler fungi galstrom gcb geguileo gibi gmann gothicmindfood gouthamr greghaynes Guest16122 Guest41778 Guest6666 guitarzan gus guyr-infinidat harlowja hashar haukebruno hazmat hemna HeOS hogepodge homerp15:00
parnexiusin honza hrybacki htruta` hughhalf hugokuo hwoarang ianw ianychoi igordcard IgorYozhikov ijw_ ildikov imcsk8_ ionutbalutoiu ircuser-1 isq izaakk j_king_ jamemcc jamesdenton jamesmca_ jamesmcarthur jamespd janonymous jaugustine jaypipes jbadiapa jbryce jcook jdurgin jeblair Jeffrey4l jesusaur jgrassler jgriffith jhesketh JillS jinli jkilpatr jlvillal joanna johnsom johnthetubaguy jpmaxman jraim_ jrist jroll jtom15:00
parnexiusJulien-zte julim jungleboyj kaisers kaisers__ kamal___ kambiz karlamrhein karthikp kbyrne kencjohnston_ Kevin_Zheng kevinbenton kgiusti khappone kiltzman kiseok7 kmARC knikolla korzen_ kozhukalov krtaylor kylek3h LanceHaig larainema laurelm lbragstad leifz lennyb lhx__ lifeless lin_yang links llu longxiongqiu loquacities lpetrut ltomasbo luyao lyarwood mabderrahim macsz Maeca makowals manjeets margaret marios M15:00
parnexiuswood markmcclain markstur masayukig masayukig[m] mathiasb mattoliverau mdavidson mdbooth mdovgal med_ melwitt Menthos mfranc213 mgagne mhayden mikal mkrai mlakat mmedvede mmotiani mordred morgan mrhillsman mriedem mrmartin mrodden mrunge msimonin mtreinish mugsie myoung Nakato nakul_d ndahiwade neiljerram netapp nhelgeson nijaba nikhil NikitaKonovalov niska njohnston_ noslzzp notmyname ntata numans number80 ono15:00
parnexiusmichi otherwiseguy pabelanger palexster parnexius pasquier-s patriciadomin patrickeast pbressan pcaruana pcarver pchavva persia persia_ peterlisak peterstac pewp pfallenop phealy pleia2 pnavarro portdirect pots powerd pradk princenana priteau pshige_________ Qiming raddaoui radez raginbajin raj_singh rajinir rakhmerov ralonsoh rarora rasca rattboi rbergeron rbowen rbudden rcernin redrobot reed reedip rfolco rha15:00
parnexius ricolin rmcadams rmk robcresswell robputt rodrigods RonghUI rpi rpodolyaka rtrox rwsu sambetts samueldmq sankarshan satya1304 sballe_ scottda sdague sdake SergeyLukjanov serverascode sfinucan shaohe_feng sheeprine shu-mutou-AWAY sileht simonmcc slagle slaweq_ smcginnis smurke- sneti_ snuffkin soren SotK SpamapS sparkycollier spotz spzala sridhar_ram sripriya ssalagame stevebaker stevemar strigazi SumitNaiksata15:00
parnexius Swanson SWDevAngel__ sweston tbarron tdasilva tdurakov TheJulia thingee timothyb89 tinwood tnarg toabctl toanster tobberydberg tomhambleton_ tommylikehu tonyb topol toscalix treiz tris trozet ttrifonov ttx Ulver_ vdrok vgadiraj vipul- vishnoianil Vivek voxelblob[m] VW weshay wiggin15 wxy X-dark xgerman Xinran xyang1 yamamoto yantarou yinxiulin yonglihe yuanying yuval zaneb Zara zara_the_lemur__ zaro zengchen z15:00
parnexius zhangyang zhenguo zhhuabj zhiyuan zhonghua zhongjun zigo zxiiro15:00
ad_rien_   #startmeeting massively_distributed_clouds15:00
ad_rien_#chair ad_rien_15:00
ad_rien_#info agenda15:00
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ad_rien_#startmeeting massively_distributed_clouds15:00
openstackMeeting started Wed May 24 15:00:54 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ad_rien_. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: massively_distributed_clouds)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'massively_distributed_clouds'15:00
fungiad_rien_: the meetbot won't recognize commands prefixed with whitespace15:01
ad_rien_#chair ad_rien_15:01
openstackCurrent chairs: ad_rien_15:01
ad_rien_#info agenda15:01
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EmilienMad_rien_: you need to run #startmeeting again15:01
ad_rien_#link  Agenda Line 59715:01
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ad_rien_EmilienM:  thanks, just a stupid C/P15:02
mriedemis it coincidental i was just pinged and also replying to emails in the ML about massively distributed something or other?15:02
ad_rien_ok so roundtable as usual15:02
bretonparnexius: hi, please don't copypaste things like that15:02
ad_rien_I just C/P the agenda  (line 597)15:02
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fungimriedem: there was some bot regurgitating the entire nicklist of lurkers into the channel just before this meeting started. so coincidence, yes15:02
parnexiusSorry.... Fat fingers.15:02
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fungioh, not a bot!15:02
ad_rien_Please add your nick/name in the pad thanks15:02
parnexiusIt was just me hitting the wrong keys.... I apologize.15:03
ad_rien_#topic announcement15:03
*** openstack changes topic to "announcement (Meeting topic: massively_distributed_clouds)"15:03
ad_rien_Ok so from my side, the important news is related to the OpenDeV event the foundation is organizing next september close to San Francisco.15:04
ad_rien_The event will focus on Fog/Edge challenge.15:04
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ad_rien_The foundation is trying to finalize who should be come (i.e. end-users for specifying use-cases, technical/developers for doing technical stuffs or both).15:04
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ad_rien_I do not have much information right now but we had a rather long discussion during the last day (people around the table was Verizon, Canonical, OpenEdge initiative, the person in charge of the Mobile Edge Computing standard at ETSI me  and I apologize for the ones I miss)15:06
parnexiusWere does this group falls in these categories?15:06
ad_rien_Technical aspects right now15:06
ad_rien_but during our F2F meeting some persons were interested to take the lead of the use-case specification questions15:06
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parnexiusI would certainly be interested in participating with use cases..15:07
ad_rien_The main idea was to identify the main differences in terms of requirements between the different use-cases (If I'm right Andrew was the person)15:07
ad_rien_parnexius:  maybe it was you ;) ?15:07
parnexiusI did not make it to boston.... But I am interested.15:07
ad_rien_parnexius:  is it you Paul Andre ?15:08
ad_rien_ok sorry for the missunderstanding15:08
serverascodeis there a lot more work to be done on use cases? I feel like they are all pretty well identified, but we just call them all different names15:08
ad_rien_ok if you want to lead such discussions please put your name in the pad.15:08
parnexiusYes ... sorry for the nick change... parnexius = Paul-Andre15:08
ad_rien_line 633, please15:08
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ad_rien_serverascode: yes that what I thought but it seems that people wants to have more formal documentations15:09
ad_rien_so for the ones that are interested by such discussions please put your name below the item: Identification of use-case differences15:09
ad_rien_Maybe we can find some collaborations with others WGs15:10
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ad_rien_from my side to be honest (i.e. Inria) we are more interested by technical questions as we spent a lot of times on this question15:10
ad_rien_ok so that's all from my side15:10
ad_rien_Any news guys from your side?15:10
ad_rien_(the floor is yours)15:11
parnexiusad_rien: there was a group under OPNFV called eNFV who had done some work on use cases.15:11
ad_rien_yes I heard about that15:11
ad_rien_We are discussing on the operator mailing list how we can improve our exchanges between all groups15:12
ad_rien_I will add the link toward the thread in the ML15:12
ad_rien_you're welcome15:12
ad_rien_so can we move to the next topic?15:12
ad_rien_#topic one additional chair15:13
*** openstack changes topic to "one additional chair (Meeting topic: massively_distributed_clouds)"15:13
ad_rien_so the question is rather clear ;)15:13
ad_rien_We need one more chair from another continent if possible.15:13
ad_rien_So any candidate?15:13
parnexiusI am happy to volunteer15:13
pbressanso do I15:14
ad_rien_we have a candidate :)15:14
ad_rien_not two15:14
ad_rien_guys may I ask you where are you located ?15:14
parnexiusI am in USA (Virginia)15:14
parnexiuspbressan: aren't you in argentina?15:15
ad_rien_pbressan ?15:15
pbressanI'm working with Paul-Andre but located in Argentina (Cordoba)15:15
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ad_rien_so I don't know15:15
ad_rien_since both of you are working together15:15
ad_rien_and we just need one co-chair15:15
ad_rien_can you please tell us who should do the job :-P?15:16
parnexiusPut my name on. I will work offline with Pablo15:16
ad_rien_ok thanks parnexius15:16
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ad_rien_the work will consist in preparing the agenda twice a month15:16
ad_rien_and double check that either you or me can chair the discussion.15:17
ad_rien_That's all15:17
ad_rien_any question?15:17
parnexiusI can't guarantee I will do it as well.15:17
ad_rien_so let's move to the next topic15:17
serverascodethat's great, it's good to have two chairs :)15:17
ad_rien_parnexius:  I'm sure you will ;)15:17
ad_rien_ok so next topic15:18
ad_rien_#topic roadmap15:18
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ad_rien_So although we already discussed two concrete actions (AMQP alternatives and cockroachDB), I would like to start with EnOS as rcherrueau should leave at 15:3015:18
ad_rien_So regarding EnoS we plan to consolidate the framework but nothing more15:19
ad_rien_we recently started a discussion regarding the OSProfiler traces and the sequence diagram15:19
ad_rien_we can automatically generate.15:19
ad_rien_People from Neutron seems to be interested to dive into details15:19
ad_rien_georgk: rcherrueau please correct me If I'm wrong15:20
ad_rien_(line 642 in the pad right now)15:20
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georgkwell, I cannot consider myself a Neutron person, but I am interested15:20
ad_rien_ok sorry georgk ;)15:20
ad_rien_(good point :p)15:21
georgkno problem, just want to clarify that I don´t work on Neutron upstream15:21
ad_rien_anyway I think that we need inputs to know what can be valuable for this15:21
ad_rien_i.e. how can we identify such ''stupid'' patterns15:21
ad_rien_s/stupid/non efficient ;)15:22
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ad_rien_so if we can detect that by leveraging the OSProfiler traces it would be valuable15:22
ad_rien_but not sure how we can do it.15:22
ad_rien_and more precisely where we should look for.15:22
ad_rien_Maybe by identifying specific rally scenarios?15:22
ad_rien_remarks/comments welcome15:23
rcherrueauI think osprofiler could help here, then we have to run some analysis of traces produced by OSProfiler. But, doing such analysis is not easy.15:23
ad_rien_and time consuming, i.e. not sure whether we can handle this task at Inria.15:23
ad_rien_georgk:  do you think you can investigate this question?15:24
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parnexiusHow can we help?15:24
ad_rien_Maybe we can start to iterate by mail15:24
georgkI am just getting started with the tools15:24
parnexiusDo you need help running the scenarios or just parsing traces.15:24
ad_rien_as we did pour the OSLO message questions15:24
ad_rien_and then see where this drives us15:24
georgkcannot promise much today, but I am planning to look a bit into this15:25
ad_rien_do you think it is reasonable?15:25
ad_rien_msimonin:  yes?15:25
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msimoninThere is a review about integrating directly osprofiler in rally15:26
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msimoninThis way if you know some scenario that can highlights sub-optimal messages exchanges between service15:26
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msimoninyou should be able to trace everything using a dedicated scenario15:27
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rcherrueauSpeaking about pattern analysis, One thing I have in mind is looking for many consecutive rpc calls between two identical services. Maybe we can fold all these calls into one and limit the number of communications15:27
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msimoninlet me give some links15:27
ad_rien_maybe core-devs already know some weird scenarios. The sequence diagrams can help to confirm (or not) the issues.15:27
msimoninis an example in which we can see many messages exchanges from compute to other services to update the vms states during a boot15:28
msimoninor to neutron to get some network info15:29
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msimoninthis can almost be generated automatically from the rally scenario15:29
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ad_rien_so I propose to start a thread15:30
ad_rien_between people interested to move forward on that aspect.15:30
ad_rien_is it ok?15:30
ad_rien_georgk:  ?15:30
georgkrcherrueau: yes, I agree, that´s one reasonabl;e approach15:30
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georgksorry, I was looking at sequence charts :-)15:31
ad_rien_ok guys, as usual go in the pad and put your name if you are interested to follow how things move forward.15:31
msimoningeorgk: don't lost yourself in those charts :)15:31
ad_rien_#action rcherrueau start a discussion to clarify sequence pattern detection thanks to Enos15:32
ad_rien_no more from our side regarding EnoS, we plan to summarize what we did regarding the WAN experiments in a publication15:32
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ad_rien_as we have to publish as a research center. Paper will be available for the WG.15:33
ad_rien_ok so next action.: AMQP alternatives15:33
ad_rien_#info AMQP Alternatives.15:33
kgiustiI've updated the epad with some status from BOS15:33
ad_rien_So kgiusti and ansmith are leading the action15:33
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ad_rien_please folks the floor is yours15:34
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ansmithas noted in pad, dispatch-router added to kolla15:34
kgiustiThe take away from the BOS forum on oslo.messaging was which messaging backends will be supported going forward15:34
kgiustisee epad re: details.  The one concern that may impact this WG effort is the stability of zeromq15:35
serverascodewhat is qrouterd?15:35
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serverascodeis that part of zeromq?15:35
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kgiustiwe lost the zeromq contributors, and need to find a willing volunteer(s) to take over support of that15:35
ansmithThe qpid dispatch router is a direct messaging intermediary supported by the oslo.messaging amqp1.0 driver15:35
ad_rien_serverascode:  no it is an alternative solution. I will copy the link toward the kgiusti presentation15:35
kgiustino, qdrouterd is the qpid dispatch router15:35
msimoninserverascode: watch this :)15:36
ad_rien_thanks msimonin15:36
serverascodegreat thanks15:36
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ad_rien_ok kgiusti ansmith can we try to identify a roadmap15:36
ad_rien_for this question of evaluation alternatives AMQP solutions15:36
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ad_rien_Inria can perform some experiments15:36
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ad_rien_especially if now qpid router is available within the kolla framework15:36
msimoninI think I can put some time on qrouterd/kolla stuffs if needed15:37
kgiustiad_rien_: yes, that's important to us15:37
ad_rien_As dicussed during the boston F2F meeting, Orange will provide some financial support, so we should be able to hire an engineer to conduct those experiments15:37
ansmithinvestigating kolla-ansible work necessary now, we can target a roadmap by next meeting15:37
ad_rien_next meeting you mean 15 days ?15:37
ad_rien_Can we try to define a complete roadmap15:38
ansmithfor "roadmap" yes15:38
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ad_rien_I think that deploying qpid within Kolla need some ansible code15:38
kgiustimsimonin: that would be great15:38
ad_rien_you are talking about the roadmpa15:38
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ad_rien_that you can present by the next meeting?15:39
ad_rien_yes did I correctly understand?15:39
ad_rien_if so, I think it sounds great.15:39
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ansmithto clarify, by roadmap is meant work to support alternative messaging in kolla in support of Enos15:39
ad_rien_A good objective can be to target another ''performance oriented'' presentation for the next summit.15:39
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kgiustiansmith: msimonin: let's take this up again once we have that roadmap and can partition any tasks among us15:40
ad_rien_no I mean a roadmap to be able to submit a presentation and present real numbers to the community15:40
ad_rien_so this means for instance15:40
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msimoninkgiusti: sure, keep us updated in the meantime :)15:40
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ad_rien_1./ finalize the integration of QPidRouter in Kolla (and all the mandatory scripts)15:40
ad_rien_2./ meanwhile, investigate the current status of ZMQ15:40
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ad_rien_3./ identify benchmarks and relevant scenarios15:41
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ad_rien_4./ define experimental protocols at large scale? WanWide? with network disconnections?15:41
ad_rien_5./ do the experiments15:41
ad_rien_5./ gather metrics and analyse results.15:41
ad_rien_something like that ;)15:41
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* ansmith is focusing on 115:41
ad_rien_with milestones15:41
msimoninRegarding qpid dispatch router I have a technical question but don't know if it's the right time15:41
ad_rien_that can be a cool presentation for the WG for the next summit15:41
kgiusti#2 is in progress15:42
ad_rien_msimonin:  please put it in the pad.15:42
msimoninad_rien_: ack15:42
ad_rien_already and we still have to discuss other points.15:42
kgiustiad_rien_: +115:42
ad_rien_just want to launch the different actions.15:42
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kgiustiserverascode: fyi
kgiustiserverascode: a better deep dive of the router tech15:43
ad_rien_kgiusti:  ansmith should we highlight other aspects regarding the AMQP evaluation question?15:43
ad_rien_#action kgiusti ansmith prepare a complete roadmap for the evaluation of alternatives solutions (at the first sight Qpidrouter and ZMQ)15:43
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ad_rien_Anything more?15:44
kgiustiad_rien_: I'm a bit unclear - is there anything specific we should be covering aside from that task list?15:44
ad_rien_I don't know. I mean I just put some items without really thinking whether I missed some.15:45
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kgiusti:)  I'm sure we'll come up with more...15:45
ad_rien_I think the roadmap will be close to this list but it would be great to put milestones just to ensure that things are going smoothly15:45
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ad_rien_so next topic: cockroach DB15:46
kgiustiad_rien_: +1 I like milestones - especially the sound they make as they whoosh by... :)15:46
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jamemccRollign on floor laughing15:46
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ad_rien_#info cockroach OpenStack15:47
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ad_rien_Ok so as discussed in Boston, Inria is interested by investigating the cockroach db question15:47
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msimoninanyone interested as well ?15:48
ad_rien_1./ we would like to contact cockroach lab and see whether they are interested by this challenge15:48
serverascodeI would definitely like to help out in this area15:48
rcherrueaume also15:48
ad_rien_We believe it can be a win win action15:48
ad_rien_For cockroachLab it will enable them to prove that their system is able to support OpenStack exchanges and from our WG, it will enable us to investigate the question of the performance as well as the scalability.15:49
ad_rien_Among the drawback of our previous Reddis proposal was the question of the SQL API.15:49
ad_rien_Using Cockroach we should be able to tacke this issue.15:50
msimoninThe idea was raised by Keystone people maybe this could be a start (keystone) ?15:50
ad_rien_By combining an alternative AMQP solution as well as a scalable DB system, we can have a good opportunities to operate Massively Distributed Clouds.15:50
ad_rien_rcherrueau:  thanks15:50
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serverascodeso the first steps will be to talk with cockroachlabs?15:51
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ad_rien_we start to informally exchanges with people. In particular to investigate the question related to the deprecation of the PostGres driver15:52
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ad_rien_it seems that the driver will not be deprecated for the moment but only marked as not supported/not tested.15:52
msimonin+1 for involving cockroachlabs15:52
serverascodeyeah it sounds like the decision to deprecate has not quite been made, and doing some work with cockroachdb could help with that decision15:53
ad_rien_we would like to investigate the development cost and whether we can get external support to develop the code that is mandatory to perform preliminary experiments at least.15:53
serverascodeis there any desire to do some basic initial testing?15:53
ad_rien_you mean with cockroach or with postgres?15:53
serverascodelike start small and try keystone + cockroachdb15:54
serverascodejust to see what explodes15:54
serverascodeI could put time into that if we would like to do some intitial testing in some form15:54
ad_rien_I think we can try to define a roadmap (probably less ambitious than the AMQP one)15:54
serverascodeI juts don't know what that would look like15:54
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ad_rien_serverascode:  cool, just give us one week so we can gather enough information to start a real discussion.15:55
ad_rien_real in the sense we have at least key elements to start the discussion.15:55
ad_rien_I'm taking the aciton15:55
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ad_rien_#action ad_rien_ Gather key informations regarding cockroach15:55
ad_rien_ok that's all15:56
ad_rien_any comment/remark regarding cockroach DB (or new SQL solution).15:56
ad_rien_For instance someone proposed Vitess on the ML15:56
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ad_rien_but Vitess leverages a centralized server so it does not cope with our target.15:56
ad_rien_4 minutes15:56
ad_rien_let's move to the next topic15:56
ad_rien_#topic open discussions.15:57
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussions. (Meeting topic: massively_distributed_clouds)"15:57
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ad_rien_ok guys15:57
ad_rien_the floor is yours15:57
serverascodeI don't have anything to add today :)15:57
ad_rien_jamemcc:  any important information to share from LCCO15:57
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ad_rien_ok seems not15:58
ad_rien_thanks everyone for attending this meeting15:58
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serverascodegood meeting, I'm glad that there are enough people to have a second chair :)15:58
ad_rien_and let's iterate by mail before our next meeting15:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"15:59
openstackMeeting ended Wed May 24 15:59:18 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:59
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openstackMinutes (text):
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Jeffrey4l#startmeeting kolla16:00
openstackMeeting started Wed May 24 16:00:10 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Jeffrey4l. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: kolla)"16:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'kolla'16:00
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Jeffrey4l#topic rollcall16:00
*** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: kolla)"16:00
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geguileosmcginnis: lol16:00
SwansonSo, what's happening?16:00
Jeffrey4lsmcginnis, ?16:00
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jgriffithNice work smcginnis :)16:00
Jeffrey4loh sorry..16:00
Jeffrey4lwrong channel..16:00
SwansonSomeone lost their time slot?16:01
jungleboyjWe have been kicked out!?!16:01
Jeffrey4lshould i end it now?16:01
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smcginnisJeffrey4l: Please. :)16:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"16:01
openstackMeeting ended Wed May 24 16:01:31 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)16:01
openstackMinutes (text):
smcginnis#startmeeting Cinder16:01
openstackMeeting started Wed May 24 16:01:41 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is smcginnis. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Cinder)"16:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'cinder'16:01
smcginnisping dulek duncant eharney geguileo winston-d e0ne jungleboyj jgriffith thingee smcginnis hemna xyang1 tbarron scottda erlon rhedlind jbernard _alastor_ bluex karthikp_ patrickeast dongwenjuan JaniceLee cFouts Thelo vivekd adrianofr mtanino karlamrhein diablo_rojo jay.xu jgregor lhx_ baumann rajinir wilson-l reduxio wanghao thrawn01 chris_morrell watanabe.isao,tommylikehu mdovgal ildikov wxy16:01
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pewphemna (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻16:01
smcginnisviks ketonne abishop sivn breitz16:01
smcginnisWell that was funny. :)16:01
jungleboyjHello again o/16:02
e0newas it  the shortest kolla meeting :)16:02
scottdaHi again16:02
diablo_rojo_phonHello :)16:02
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smcginnis#topic Announcements.16:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements. (Meeting topic: Cinder)"16:02
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smcginnisTwo weeks left until Pike-2!16:02
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smcginnis#link Review focus16:02
DuncanTWe should run our meeting as fast as that16:03
smcginnisCores, please take a look through the new drivers in the etherpad to help them along. ^16:03
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smcginnisDuncanT: Hah16:03
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smcginnisSpecs could use a pass through as well.16:03
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smcginnisPTG planning is starting for September in Denver.16:04
smcginnisML discussion right now on rooms. Feel free to add anything there if you have any unput.16:04
smcginnisor input16:04
smcginnis#topic Versioned Objects - RTFM16:04
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smcginnisgeguileo: All yours :)16:04
geguileoI wanted to remind people that we must Read The Fantastic Manuals16:05
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geguileoprimarily regarding OVOs16:05
smcginnisFantastic... right. :)16:05
geguileobecause we keep merging things that break rolling upgrades16:05
tommylikehuoh, yes :)16:05
geguileowith things that are explained in the docs16:05
geguileoI have updated the error we get on the tests when we have to bump an OVO version16:06
geguileobut long story short16:06
smcginnisgeguileo: I think that error message should help.16:06
e0negeguileo: what about CI for it?16:06
geguileowe only need to bump a version if we add fields, remove fields, or add new values to a field that would break old versions16:06
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geguileoAnd if we bump a version we need backporting code16:07
hemnathis is the problem with OVO though, almost nobody understands them.16:07
geguileoe0ne: Well, we cannot have CI for everything in this case16:07
smcginnisUnit tests should catch issues, but folks need to know to write them.16:07
geguileoe0ne: Because it means we must pass all possible payloads between services16:07
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geguileothat are in different versions16:07
geguileoSo the easy rule to remember is what I just said16:08
geguileoso if we bump a version we need to add backporting code as mentioned in the docs16:08
geguileonothing more16:08
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geguileoafter this rant I'm done with the topic, unless someone has a question16:08
tommylikehugeguileo:  thanks16:09
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smcginnisgeguileo: Thanks. I think with the better message and better core awareness we can hopefully catch these.16:09
mdovgalhi folks)16:10
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hemnageguileo, do we have an example review of what not to do?16:10
diablo_rojoThanks for the re-education geguileo :)16:10
smcginnisgeguileo: Do we have details in a devref that explains unit testing,etc, for OVO changes?16:10
xyang1geguileo: can you provide a link to the Fantastic Manual?16:10
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jungleboyjgeguileo:  Thanks.16:10
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geguileosmcginnis: yup16:10
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geguileohemna: yes, it's in the meeting agenda16:11
geguileothe patch with the issue16:11
hemnageguileo, ok.16:11
geguileoand the patch with the fix16:11
geguileocode is actually really simple16:11
hemnageguileo, I have a bug that I'd like to discuss with you regarding OVO breaking something.  we can take it offline16:11
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geguileohemna: ok, we can discuss after the meeting16:12
smcginnis#link Missed patch16:12
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smcginnis#link Fix16:12
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smcginnisgeguileo: OK, thanks for bringing it up and fixing it.16:12
smcginnis#topic Open Discussion16:13
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smcginnisAnything else to bring up today?16:13
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jgriffithGeesh, I showed up for nuthin16:13
jungleboyjShould we mention mysql vs mysql+pymysql ?16:13
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smcginnisjgriffith: Want to give a little informercial on your recently merged stuff?16:14
smcginnisjungleboyj: Sure, after jgriffith I guess.16:14
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jungleboyjsmcginnis:  Sounds good.16:14
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jgriffithFor those that didn’t see it and may be interested:
jgriffithThat adds a standalone cinder deployment template into Cinder16:15
jgriffithIt leverages the LOCI project for image building and basically tries to get rid of the notion that “openstack/cinder” is hard to deploy16:15
jgriffithIt’s super easy if you have an external backend, and slightly more complex if you use LVM (slightly)16:16
jgriffithAnyway, I tried to document things pretty well. I would LOVE it if people were interested and took a look at it16:16
smcginnisjgriffith: I'd love to see a devref or something with a little detail of how you are using this for development instead of devstack.16:16
jgriffithThere’s certainly opportunity to grow it and integrate it more with the source tree16:16
xyang1jgriffith: is keystone still required for this?16:16
jgriffithsmcginnis for sure, I’d be happy to do that16:16
jgriffithxyang1 nope16:16
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xyang1jgriffith: great16:17
jgriffithNo keystone, but that can be added and at some point should perhaps be documented16:17
jungleboyjjgriffith:  Thanks for working on that.  Think it is a great add.16:17
smcginnisYeah, like you said, this is a start.16:17
jgriffithKeep in mind the current minderclient on pypy doesn’t have standalone support so you’ll need to build your own16:17
tommylikehujgriffith:  should I start from this link?
smcginnisCould be cool to see where it goes.16:17
jgriffithGnudge nudge smcginnis16:17
jgriffithtommylikehu yup16:18
e0nejgriffith: it looks awesome! I want to try it asap16:18
jgriffithAnd if folks have issues/problems hit me up16:18
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smcginnisjgriffith: Do we just need a new release?16:18
jgriffithsmcginnis yes :)16:18
jungleboyjsmcginnis:  Takes a hint quickly.  ;-)16:18
smcginnisjgriffith: OK, I can look at that soon.16:19
jgriffithSo something else that is going on and getting a bit more traction is the idea of creating a docker and kubernetes plugin for Cinder16:19
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jgriffithI know I’ve mentioned this before, but there’s an official open stack project for this effort16:19
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jgriffithIt would be really great if all of us vendors got together on this and made something really robust and solid16:20
patrickeastjgriffith: got links for those?16:20
smcginnisjgriffith: Pointers to that?16:20
jgriffithAnd also FYI this effort is pat of what drove the interest for the block-box stuff16:20
e0nejgriffith: what project do you mean?16:20
jgriffithPart of kuryr16:20
smcginnisFor the benefit of English speakers, that X makes a "sh" sound, so y'all can stop giggling.16:20
tommylikehuoh fuxi !16:20
jgriffithAlthough I’m not sure why it’s not a sub-project of Cinder, but that’s a whole different thing16:20
jgriffithsmcginnis :)16:20
jgriffithAnyway… there’s a bp that I’m working on to convert that code to golang16:21
xyang1smcginnis: so now you know how to pronounce my name:)16:21
* jungleboyj gigles anyway.16:21
smcginnisxyang1: Hah!16:21
e0nexyang1: :)16:21
tommylikehuxyang1:  lol16:21
jgriffithAnd, dims has worked up a first pass at a kubernetes flex volume plugin to use cinder16:21
smcginnisxyang1: I'll probably still not get it quite right, but I'm learning. ;)16:22
jgriffithSo for those of us at organizations where we are working on both sides of the aisle it might be interesting/worhtwhile to just make Cinder the answer16:22
jungleboyjxyang1:  It is like King , right?  ;-)16:22
jungleboyjjgriffith:  ++16:22
smcginnisjgriffith: +1, I think these are great efforts.16:22
xyang1Swanson: that sounds better16:22
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e0nejgriffith:  +116:23
hemnaalso, fwiw, I've used this stuff already and it's really great :)16:23
e0nehemna: does it work? :)16:23
jgriffithhemna :)16:23
smcginnisGreat infomercial, we even have endorsements. :D16:23
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jgriffithSo something to think about if you have time… ways to leverage this in your development cycle etc16:23
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e0nejgriffith: can we use if for functional tests for brickclient?16:24
jgriffithIt would be really neat if there’s interest and it works well for people we could publish some sort of blog like “tips from the team” or whatever16:24
jgriffithe0ne Yes, it works really well for isolated tests16:24
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e0nejgriffith: because I'm not sure when needed patch will be merged to devstack16:25
Swansonxyang1, Probably going to continue with X-ing.16:25
e0nejgriffith: ok. I'll play with it and let you know if I have any issues16:25
jgriffithe0ne so there’s effort to do containers in gate but I’m not very familiar with where it’s at or how it’s going16:25
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hemnae0ne, yes :)16:25
jgriffithI believe there are some projects that have it working so we could look into those and how to use their templates etc16:25
* jungleboyj is laughing at Swanson 16:26
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jgriffithAnyway, that’s it from me.. thanks smcginnis and hemna and all16:26
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smcginnisjgriffith: Thanks for putting that up there. Could be hyoooj.16:26
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smcginnisOK, jungleboyj brought this up:16:27
jungleboyjhyoooj ?16:27
smcginnisarnewiebalck__ did an awesome job sticking with this error.16:27
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smcginnisFinally came down to the DB connection string in cinder.conf.16:27
jungleboyjsmcginnis:  ++16:27
jgriffithNo way!!16:28
smcginnisSo if you have an older deployment that was installed after the guides switched to say to use pymysql, you could be running into deadlocks.16:28
smcginnisSo don't do that.16:28
jgriffithI was just trying to help a customer with this exact problem the other day!16:28
jungleboyjjgriffith:  Was that sarcastic ?16:28
smcginnisjgriffith: Almost perfect timing. :)16:29
jungleboyjjgriffith:  Ok, so not.  I was frustrated I didn't narrow it down to that faster.16:29
smcginnisjgriffith: Had you figured it out yet?16:29
jgriffithjungleboyj no, it was a ‘crap, wish I’d known this about 3 days ago'16:29
jgriffithsmcginnis NOPE!16:29
jungleboyjjgriffith:  +100016:29
hemnathat was the deadlock cause?16:29
smcginnisjgriffith: Well there you go... :)16:29
jgriffithI just manually cleaned their cloud up16:29
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jgriffithAnd said “don’t do that again"16:29
jungleboyjjgriffith:  Yeah, it will happen again if they don't make that change.16:29
smcginnishemna: Yep, basically the native driver completely blocks and causes problems.16:29
jgriffithjungleboyj but I told them “don’t do that again”. Doesn’t that count :)16:30
hemnathat's such an easy mistake to make16:30
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smcginnisSo I believe the plan out of this is oslo.log will add a warning if it sees it being used.16:30
hemnais there a way for us to puke at startup if we detect that config db string ?16:30
smcginnisSo at least there's a slim chance it will be noticed and fixed.16:30
jungleboyjjgriffith: Oh yes, because we never try something that hurt before again.  :-)16:30
hemnait should be more than a warning.   we should fail to start IMHO16:30
jgriffithjungleboyj :)16:30
jungleboyjSo, arnewiebalck__  Was going to work with oslo to get a warning output.16:31
smcginnishemna: There was some talk of just internally switching it over to mysql+pymsql, but there was some concern abou tust switching it.16:31
clarkbthere are tradeoffs involved16:31
jungleboyjI suppose we could step it up and puke or like smcginnis said, just ignore it.16:31
clarkbalso you can't assume that a user using the mysql driver has pymysql installed16:31
hemnaif it's a known issue, we shouldn't allow the setting to be used.16:31
hemnaas it will cause problems.16:31
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smcginnishemna: It is apparently more performant, so they didn't want to block it completely if a deployer had some good reason for sticking with it.16:32
clarkbhemna: again there are tradeoffs16:32
clarkbsmcginnis: right that, the C is faster16:32
smcginnisclarkb: +116:32
hemnasmcginnis, even thought that more performant config will cause deadlocks and failures ?!16:32
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hemnasomething doesn't make sense to me.16:32
smcginnishemna: Only if their usage causes a lot of simultaneous operations to be performed.16:32
hemnawe are really fast at getting you to deadlock!16:32
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eharneydoes anyone actually know why it deadlocks?  i.e. is it as risk for all cinder configs, or only when setup in certain ways?16:33
hemnaI dunno man, this is cloud sw.  it's supposed to work with parallel actions.16:33
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clarkbeharney: because mysql driver ffis out to C eventlet must block. aiui if that blocking happens at an unfortunate time you can deadlock16:34
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eharneyahh ok16:34
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clarkbeharney: pymysql doesn't have this problem because it is a pure python driver so eventlet just greentrheads it like everything else16:34
smcginnisIn this case, they had been running fine and only would run into problems when trying to delete 10+ volumes at the same time.16:34
Swansonsmcginnis, And that happens how often? All the time?16:35
hemnaso....when you want speed because you are trying to do lots of parallel operations, you are almost guaranteed a deadlock16:35
jungleboyjThe good news is that we are aware of it now and know how to fix it quickly.16:35
hemnabut when you don't care and only do 1 operation at a time.......16:35
smcginnisSwanson: Frequently I think.16:35
jungleboyj*Do dooo dooooh*  The more you know ....16:35
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jungleboyjSwanson:  Yeah, it sounds like it is done fairly frequently.16:36
hemnaso the reason why you use the C client is for speed, but it will cause problems.16:36
SwansonI vote for making it not break in the first place.16:36
hemnaseems like we should do more than warn.16:36
clarkbhemna: yes I think we are saying everyone should use pymysql and we will warn you if you don't. However, people have used the other driver for years and there may be valid reasons for them to continue to do so16:37
jungleboyjarnewiebalck__:  Was able to get around it by removing a lock, but that also seems potentially dangerous.16:37
smcginnisjungleboyj: And the problem went away once he updated his connection string.16:37
clarkbhemna: there re also people that use the other oracle driver I think16:37
smcginnisWell, feel free to chime in on that thread if you have other input.16:37
clarkbhemna: so if you force everyone to use pymysql there will likely be undesired fallout involved16:37
Swansonclarkb, so if this is setup a long time ago would someone be looking for the warning?16:37
jgriffithSeems to me that documenting it and warning is good step16:38
hemnaclarkb, I was just suggesting blocking mysql:// and using mysql+pymysql:// instead16:38
hemnanot blocking everything16:38
jgriffithPuking on startup for people that have configured a certain way (taking that ability away) is no bueno16:38
clarkbhemna: but the other driver alsos suffers the same problem16:38
jgriffithAnd the fact is that people will want to make that trade off16:38
clarkbhemna: as it runs in C too?16:38
jungleboyjjgriffith:  Have to start somewhere.16:38
clarkbanyways its a tradeoff and so communication is importnat16:38
smcginnisHence the post the the -operators ML and not just to -dev.16:39
hemnaseems dangerous.16:39
SwansonIf they want the 911 they'll have to risk putting it in a tree, I suppose.16:39
* jungleboyj is laughing16:39
hemnaI think the warning will simply be missed and ignored16:39
hemnauntil there is a problem16:39
hemnaanyway, I'll shut up. :)16:40
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SwansonWow, and he did.16:41
hemnaSwanson, shh!16:41
jungleboyjsmcginnis:  Thanks for bringing this up.  Glad we were able to help jgriffith16:41
smcginnisHah! Anything else for today?16:41
jungleboyjHuge thanks to arnewiebalck__  for chasing it and Gerhard for finding the solution.16:42
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smcginnisOK, thanks everyone.16:43
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"16:43
openstackMeeting ended Wed May 24 16:43:47 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)16:43
openstackMinutes (text):
jungleboyjThank you!16:43
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bh526r#startmeeting gluon18:00
openstackMeeting started Wed May 24 18:00:51 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is bh526r. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gluon)"18:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'gluon'18:00
bh526r#topic Roll Call18:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: gluon)"18:01
bh526r#info Bin Hu18:01
pcarver#info pcarver18:01
jinli#info JinLi18:01
jinliHello everyone18:01
bh526rHi Paul and Jin18:01
bh526r#topic Admin Update18:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Admin Update (Meeting topic: gluon)"18:02
bh526r#info We had a very good presence in OpenStack Summit in Boston18:02
bh526r#info We presented and demonstrated Gluon PoC in AT&T Booth and OPNFV Booth18:03
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bh526r#info We also presented and demonstrated Gluon in Open Source Days Mini Summit and Nirvana Stack Mini Summit18:03
bh526r#info We gave a summit presentation in Telco track too18:04
bh526r#info Thanks everyone for the hard work18:04
bh526r#topic Application for Gluon to be an official project18:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Application for Gluon to be an official project (Meeting topic: gluon)"18:04
bh526r#info We submitted an application for Gluon to be an official project18:05
bh526r#info There were many good comments, and suggestions18:05
bh526r#info We appreciated everyone's time to review, comment and suggest18:05
bh526r#info We will continue our discussion and work with Neutron team and find the best way to incorporate some Gluon features into Neutron.18:06
bh526r#info The application is put on hold, pending the outcome of those discussions with Neutron.18:07
bh526r#topic Gluon Pike Release18:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Gluon Pike Release (Meeting topic: gluon)"18:07
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bh526r#info While we continue the discussion with Neutron team, Ian and Sukhdev will work on those details of how to incorporate some Gluon features into Neutron18:09
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bh526r#info At the same time, improvement tasks continue to develop for Pike release, which may be moved into Neutron pending on Ian's proposal18:10
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bh526r#info 2 RFEs, which were submitted for PTG in Atlanta, will be updated too18:11
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bh526r#link (Neutron API enhancement - make network and subnets as optional)18:12
openstackLaunchpad bug 1664461 in neutron "[RFE] Neutron API enhancement - make network and subnets as optional" [Undecided,New]18:12
bh526r#link (Neutron API enhancement - add optional attribute to network)18:12
openstackLaunchpad bug 1664466 in neutron "[RFE] Neutron API enhancement - add optional attribute to network" [Undecided,New]18:12
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bh526r#info 3 patches were approved after Boston Summit18:13
bh526r#link (Update to use os-testr to get better report)18:13
bh526r#link (Replace six.iteritems() with .items())18:14
bh526r#link (Remove sqlite_db parameter from set_defaults)18:14
bh526r#info There are 5 outstanding patches18:15
bh526r#link is being reviewed, and comments were received.18:15
bh526r#link is being reviewed, and get one approval. I will wait for another 48 hours. If no other comments, I will take action to merge it18:16
bh526r#link is being reviewed, and comments were given. The author is expected to fix the issues in the patch in order to move forward18:17
bh526r#link is being reviewed, and comments were given. Author is working with reviewers to resolve the comments18:18
bh526r#link is devstack integration, and still a work in progress18:19
bh526r#info There were 2 relevant patches to integrate Gluon with Fuel installers18:19
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bh526r#link is sitting there. It may become irrelevant because Fuel installer is deprecated. New MCP is emerging18:20
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bh526r#link was abandoned because Gluon is not an official project18:21
bh526rThat's all update from my side18:21
bh526ranyone has any update?18:21
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bh526ror anything to share?18:22
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bh526rOK. If nothing else to share, or nothing else to discuss, we can adjourn the meeting to go back to work :)18:23
bh526rThank you everyone18:23
bh526r#info Meeting adjourned18:24
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"18:24
openstackMeeting ended Wed May 24 18:24:43 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:24
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zara_the_lemur__noting that this week's storyboard meeting is cancelled; we're still about in #storyboard!18:39
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ekhugen_alt#startmeeting wos_mentoring20:00
openstackMeeting started Wed May 24 20:00:30 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ekhugen_alt. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: wos_mentoring)"20:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'wos_mentoring'20:00
ekhugen_altHi, who's here for the women of openstack mentoring meeting?20:00
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* ekhugen_alt hears crickets20:03
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aimeeuHi Emily - I'm supposed to be on a conference call... and the host just arrived20:04
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ekhugen_althi NicoleH20:05
NicoleHHi Emily!20:05
ekhugen_altokay, thanks aimeeu20:05
ekhugen_altI think it might just be the two of us Nicole20:05
NicoleHHow are you? Have you recovered from the summit?!20:05
NicoleHhow are we collecting feedback?20:05
ekhugen_alti'm good, I think I'm still catching up from all the things that collected for me while I was away20:06
NicoleHme too!20:06
NicoleHi headed to disneyland the week after, so i'm just getting caught back up!20:06
ekhugen_altI didn't get together an etherpad yet to send out for feedback20:06
ekhugen_altoh wow, nice long time away from the office though!20:07
ekhugen_altI hope you had fun!20:07
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NicoleHyes, we had a great time! thanks!20:07
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ekhugen_altHi MeganR20:08
NicoleHHi Megan!20:08
MeganRHi Nicole!20:09
ekhugen_althow's this for a feedback etherpad20:09
NicoleHWe missed you at the summit!20:09
ekhugen_altwe so did, but it was great that Andrew came!20:09
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MeganRI missed you - would have loved to have been there, and yes really glad Andrew could be there.  His streak remains unbroken!20:10
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NicoleHWas great to see Andrew there!20:10
ekhugen_altI think we had a nice turnout for the speed mentoring lunch20:11
ekhugen_altit was a good ratio of mentors to mentees20:11
MeganRthat's great, so glad they were able to change it to a lunch session20:11
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NicoleHit seemed like very high quality conversations between the mentors & mentees20:12
ekhugen_altthe 10 minute rounds seemed like the right cadence too, I think20:13
MeganRfantastic, glad it was a success20:14
NicoleHyep, i agree, the 10 mins time worked well!20:14
NicoleHemily, is there a way to query the mentors & mentees who participated?20:14
ekhugen_altI think for me, I would've liked to have been in a room with AV equipment (to put up some slides about how it was going to go) and a microphone20:14
ekhugen_altmentors I have the list from the prep call, so I can send the etherpad out to them20:15
ekhugen_altmentees, I'm not so sure on, the rsvp list probably doesn't reflect who was actually in the room20:15
ekhugen_altI feel like we got a few drop ins20:15
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NicoleHtrue, i think you're right20:16
ekhugen_altNicole, anything on your side that you want to capture for feedback, or anything you heard from participants20:18
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NicoleHhmmm, thinking ...20:19
NicoleHperhaps we can go back to the input we received last time to see if we can measure how we did against that?20:19
NicoleHdo you have the link to that earlier etherpad? i can take a look to see if it jogs any questions we might want to ask.20:20
ekhugen_altI think our Barcelona feedback etherpad was pretty bare20:20
NicoleHah, ok20:20
NicoleHmaybe austin then?20:20
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ekhugen_altfinally found austin link
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NicoleHlooking now!20:27
ekhugen_altI think we did pretty well comparatively, in Austin it was tied in with the long term mentoring program, which is where a lot of the feedback came from20:28
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ekhugen_altdecoupling that helped a lot20:28
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NicoleHyes, i'm seeing that too20:30
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NicoleHline 33 ... what do you think about placing the numbers on the tables in a slightly different order to facilitate easier movement between tables?20:30
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ekhugen_altoh that's a good point, we should've put them in an order where everyone could've moved clockwise20:31
ekhugen_altjust to make it easy20:31
NicoleHyep ... and i'd forgotten about that until i saw line 3320:31
ekhugen_altstill, I think the transitions went really smoothly this time20:32
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NicoleHyes, i think the transitions did go smoothly20:35
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ekhugen_altso I'll send out the boston etherpad today to the mentors and we'll see if we get any additional feedback?20:37
NicoleHthat sounds great, emily!20:38
MeganRgreat idea20:38
ekhugen_altshould we talk at all about Sydney?  I think we might need to find some new speed mentoring showrunners for next summit20:38
* ekhugen_alt probably won't get funding to go to Australia20:39
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NicoleHi think i'll run into the same issue, emily20:39
NicoleHwe'll see!20:39
MeganRI am pretty certain that I won't be in Sydney20:39
ekhugen_altI just wondered if we should start advertising at the women of openstack meetings and see if someone wants to take it over20:40
ekhugen_altor if it should get taken off the schedule?20:40
MeganRthat's a good idea - let20:40
MeganR's see if someone can take over first20:40
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ekhugen_altcool, I think the next one of those is in June, so we can try to remember to bring it up then20:41
NicoleHok. and in the interm, i'll inquire internally at intel.20:42
ekhugen_altyes, I'll ask around here too20:42
ekhugen_altany other topics?20:42
MeganRI'm good20:43
NicoleHgood on my end!20:45
ekhugen_altcool, meet again in 2 weeks?20:45
MeganRperfect - enjoy the long weekend!20:46
ekhugen_altthanks, you too!20:46
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"20:46
openstackMeeting ended Wed May 24 20:46:45 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)20:46
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notmyname#startmeeting swift21:00
openstackMeeting started Wed May 24 21:00:45 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)"21:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'swift'21:00
notmynamewho's here for the swift team meeting?21:00
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notmynameit's torgomatic and jrichli!21:02
notmynameis cschwede_ going to be here?21:02
notmynameacoles: ?21:02
* acoles was in wrong channel21:02
notmynameok, I'm told cschwede_ is out this week21:03
claygme too21:03
notmynamelet's get started21:03
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notmyname#topic previous meeting follow-up21:03
*** openstack changes topic to "previous meeting follow-up (Meeting topic: swift)"21:03
notmyname* TC goals. there's a mailing list thread. I wrote some words on it (but not the governance patches)21:04
notmynamenot much more to discuss there. just stuff to track and get done21:04
notmynamelet's skip to some good stuff :-)21:04
notmyname*global EC patchs21:04
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notmynamecomposite rings landed! yay!21:04
acolesnotmyname: do you want me to draft a patch that documents when/how swift complies with the wsgi goal?21:04
notmynameacoles: sure, that would be great21:05
notmynameand per-policy config should likely land today, I think21:05
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notmynameacoles: timburke: kota_: clayg: anything more to say on the global ec patches?21:05
notmynamethat will give us something else to scratch off on
timburkespeaking of, we should totally go merge, too21:07
patchbotpatch 302494 - swift - Sync metadata in 'rsync_then_merge' in db_replicator21:07
kota_i think some follow ups are missing in the list (e.g.
patchbotpatch 465878 - swift - Small minor fixes for composite ring functionality21:07
notmynamekota_: true. I haven't added the follow-ups21:07
timburkelooking now...21:08
kota_i suppose timburke also has follow up doc change for composite ring21:08
acolespatch 465878 should be easy review21:08
patchbot - swift - Small minor fixes for composite ring functionality21:08
acolesin fact maybe I should have just +A'd it21:10
notmynameI'll update the priority reviews wiki to include the follow up patches21:10
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kota_notmyname: thx and I'll help that if i found something missing21:10
notmynamekota_: thank you21:11
kota_i didn't notice we have global ec patch list in the priority review21:11
claygwhoot global EC!21:11
claygis tdasilva and cschwede_ around?21:11
notmynamekota_: you've just got me bugging you about it :-)21:11
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notmynameclayg: scroll up. yes tdasilva. no csatari21:11
notmyname* cschwede_21:12
notmyname#topic LOSF follow-up21:12
*** openstack changes topic to "LOSF follow-up (Meeting topic: swift)"21:12
notmynamerledisez: jeffli: hello!21:12
rledisezthx jeffli for joining :)21:12
jefflihello, john21:12
rledisezfirst of all, thx to everybody for feedbacks on the etherpad21:13
notmynamewhat's going on with your comepeting implementations this week?21:13
rledisezso, correct me if i'm wrong jeffli, but we've been discussing a lot21:13
claygnotmyname: it's more like collaborating!21:13
rledisezand i think we settled on a volume format21:14
notmynamerledisez: great!21:14
rledisezthat's the first good news21:14
rlediseznow, what we need to focus on is the K/V format21:14
rledisezkey format, value format, and also which DB (rocksdb, leveldb, somethong else)21:14
notmynamemeaning rocks vs leveldb? or schema and file format?21:14
notmynameah ok21:14
notmynameso all of that :-)21:14
rledisezboth :)21:14
claygjust write a file in xfs whos contents point to the volume21:15
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rledisezalso, related to some raised questions about one big K/V21:15
rledisezwe made some benchmarks on memory usage21:15
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notmynamenice. do you have the results to sharE?21:15
rledisezit turns out spliting K/V in multiple small K/V would have a significant memory increase21:15
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rledisezno numbers right now, it was very quick tests, but i'll ask alecuyer to write that down somewhere21:16
notmynameok, thanks21:16
notmynamelink them on the ideas page (best) or in the existing etherpad (not great, but ok)21:16
rledisezi think that's all right now for me21:17
notmynamerledisez: jeffli: is there anything you two need from the rest of us during this next week?21:17
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rledisezi can't find anything right now. we are perfectionning the flat namespace (ease to increase part power)21:17
jefflii want to raise another question here21:18
notmynamejeffli: go ahead21:18
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jeffliit is about how to map volumes to partition. Currently Romain use multiple volumes per partition. We use one volume per partition.21:19
notmynamethat's a good question21:19
notmynamerledisez: didn't you use more small volumes to avoid some compaction/gc issues?21:20
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rledisezthe reason to have multiple volume is first for concurency, as volume are append only, it is locked during an uploaed21:20
rledisezsecond reason as notmyname said is for limiting the compaction effect when it happens (no need to move 40GB of data at once)21:21
notmynameso yeah, that makes lots of smaller volumes sound better (concurrency, so num_volumes should be roughly the same as the concurrency the drive supports)21:21
notmynamejeffli: what's your take on that?21:21
jefflifirst, map one volume per partition is simple. And we can increase the partitions to reduce the contention21:22
claygis # volume/journal essentially orthogonal to # of k-v/index21:23
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claygor are they related in your design (jeffli, rledisez)21:23
rledisezclayg:  no, right one one K/V, multiple volume21:23
rledisezin both design21:23
torgomaticif you take the limit as files-per-partition goes to infinity, you wind up in the current situation where there's one volume per object... I don't know if that helps anything, but it's sort of interestign21:23
claygone K/V for... each device?  node?21:23
torgomaticer, volumes per partition, not files21:23
rledisezclayg: each device21:23
claygtorgomatic: ohai!21:24
rlediseztorgomatic: in our design, the idea is to have a limit of volume per partition, so it's a kind of limit on concurrency per partition21:24
claygrledisez: ack - jeffli ?21:24
notmynamehmm... we should probably stop using "volume" to refer to the big flat file containing objects (since "volume" often means drive)21:24
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notmynamehow's "slab file"?21:24
notmynameor "slab"21:24
torgomaticnotmyname: I was just about to suggest that exact word21:25
rledisezby default we limit to 10, which in our experience should be enough, but we will send metric each time this number wouldn't be enough so that the operator can adjust21:25
jeffliit is call 'log' in Ambry. So journal could be ok.21:25
notmynamerledisez: is it something the operator has to set up, or does it change over time based on load/cardinality?21:25
* jungleboyj sneaks in late.21:26
rledisezit would probably has to set up, with a "reasonable" default21:26
notmynameclayg: the journal/log is the kv store, right? the slab is the big chunk of disk where the object are21:26
claygslab makes me thing of idk... like I allocate blocks and fill them in and stuff - but AIUI no one is doing that - you just append to the end - I don't think that is a slab - but w/e21:26
notmynamerledisez: hmm21:26
notmynamenaming things is hard ;-)21:26
claygjust don't call them kittens - cats make me sneeze so I wouldn't be comfortable with that name21:26
notmynameclayg: done21:26
claygor cantaloupe - i don't care for it - too sweet21:26
rledisezclayg: i'll write that in case we forget :)21:26
claygdon't call the volume/journal/slab cantaloupe21:27
notmynameok, so 2 outstanding question to answer this week (we can discuss not in the meeting)21:27
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notmyname(1) a better name for "volume". perhaps slab, journal, or log21:27
notmyname(2) how many of <thing we named in #1> per hard drive21:27
notmynameis that accurate?21:28
claygjeffli: rledisez makes a good case for contention if you *don't* have multiple volumes per device (at somepoint it's better to queue the request and possibly let the proxy timeout) than it is to throw another i/o into the kernel21:28
claygjrichli: are we done talking about object-metadata *in* the K/V then?21:28
tdasilvajeffli: rledisez: if it's operator defined, then maybe some people will start with 1 and others will start with 10. should be able to support both, no?21:28
clayggah... sorry - jrichli hi - I ment jeffli RE: *object* metadata21:29
rledisezsure, but i think jeffli want to make request wait until the "volume" is available,, right jeffli?21:29
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notmynametdasilva: that sounds ... like something we might should avoid? ie let's not repeat part power type questions that ops really have no business deciding21:29
rledisezwhile we prefer to fail quickly21:29
jeffliAlex confirms that the number of volumes per partition is configurable. But I am trying to make it simple  so we don't care about how to select a volume in partition21:30
claygrledisez: ah, yes now we're getting to something21:30
rlediseznotmyname: interresting point, decide for the oeprator, we never thought of that21:30
notmynamerledisez: that's cause YOU are the operator! ;-)21:30
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rledisezi like to decide by myself :D21:30
claygi like to decide too21:30
tdasilvaevery power user likes to decide21:30
claygstep #1 think I know something and write code I think is smart step #2 realize I didn't know *shit*21:31
jeffliyes, since we implement that in Go, if a volume is locked, the write attempt will block.21:31
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notmynameok, 3 more minutes on this topic, then we need to move on...21:31
notmynamejeffli: rledisez: (clayg?) where do you want to continue this conversation? IRC? email? phone call? etherpad?21:32
rledisezwe'll try to think a way it could work magically21:32
claygI'm not sure why - but my gut is let it block?  how *do* you decide which of N volumes on a device ultimately get the key allocated to them?21:32
notmynamerledisez: perfect!21:32
rledisezwe can continue by mail, i think alex proposed a webex to jeffli also21:33
claygoh.. i'm just interested - there's some off chance I might know something useful about swift that is helpful to contribute but most likely I'll just be asking-questions playing devils advocate and rubber ducking - not sure I need to be involved if i'm not writing code21:33
rledisezjeffli: just note that me and alex will be off until monday, so probably no answers to mail or whatever :)21:33
jeffliIRC is too difficult for me. Haha21:33
tdasilvawould be happy to setup a bluejeans session if folks are interested21:33
notmynamejeffli: that's ok21:33
claygi like to see conversations evolve on etherpads21:33
rledisezclayg: playing devil advocate is very useful!21:34
claygthey get messy and you have to throw them out21:34
notmynamerledisez: jeffli: would it be possible to get the webex link in IRC so others can join?21:34
rlediseznotmyname: sure21:34
claygbut like specifically for "how to select which volume and what do do when that one is locked... or the next"21:34
notmynameand if there's email, then keeping them on the m-dev mailing list (with [swift] in the subject) will help others stay involved21:34
claygI think someone could write 20 sentences about what they did and I could spin questions out21:35
claygemail is fine if that's best21:35
rlediseznotmyname: sure, we'll move the discussion on the public place :)21:35
jeffliGot it. Then I think we can discuss that in Email.21:35
claygi also agree doing on os-dev would be *very* good21:35
notmynamerledisez: jeffli: ok, thanks. and please let me know how I can help coordinate that, if needed. and don't forget tdasilva's offer of video chat :-)21:35
clayglike *very* good21:35
notmynameI agree (about the mailing list being a good place)21:35
claygEmail to os-dev21:35
rledisezclayg: will do ;)21:36
claygzaitcev: look!  using the ML!?21:36
notmynameok, two more topics21:36
notmyname#topic swift on containers21:36
*** openstack changes topic to "swift on containers (Meeting topic: swift)"21:36
notmynametdasilva: ?21:36
claygzaitcev: never thought he would see the day - having a positive influance on us after all these years after all ;)21:36
notmyname patch 46625521:36
patchbot - swift - Make mount_check option usable in containerized en...21:36
claygtdasilva: yeah!  what's going on with containers and stuff!21:36
zaitcevclayg, yes, I can die with regrets tomorrow21:36
zaitcevs/with /without /21:36
claygzaitcev: please don't - i mean... just finish the PUT/POST patch first ;)21:37
* jungleboyj hears containers are the next big thing. ;-)21:37
tdasilvaclayg: I think your comments summarized well there. basically this patch helps us support deploying swift on containers on tripleo21:37
zaitcevso, about that extra lstat()21:38
tdasilvathe issue is that we are trying to run each swift service in its own container, and we can't mount the disk in each of them, so we needed another way to mount_check21:38
zaitcevis it a real issue or not? Peter Portante used to think it was.21:38
claygtdasilva: notmyname: my big idea on patch 466255 and others that might "add cruft in the name of containers!" was maybe we should do a feature branch and encourage those interesting in working/progessing the topic of swift on containers to merge merge merge!21:39
patchbot - swift - Make mount_check option usable in containerized en...21:39
zaitcevI think he ran a download or something and a significant number of syscalls were those endless stat() calls. But then they probably aren't that expensive.21:39
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claygthen we can go back at the end with - here is the whole kube/quartermaster story - there's some non-trivial value here and we've done all the leg work - so let's rally folks together to maybe clean some stuff up and make better docs and viola patch series merge awesomesause new world order21:40
tdasilvaclayg: I think you have a valid point, OTOH, I think that's a small enough patch and it doesn't necessarily point to there being a ton more of patches like to support swift on containers21:41
tdasilvaso I'd hold off on moving this to a feature branch21:41
claygor we can eat it piecemeal as we go - I care more about the visibility/community-velocity/contributions than I do about adequate docs and some random lstat call21:41
zaitcevYou know what the next step is going to be21:42
claygtdasilva: if you really think there's not that many then I think cschwede_ should go ahead and do this patch right - but like... we haven't managed to get part-power-increase merged - or symlinks - or any other number of things21:42
rledisezabout this patch, it reminds me something i wanted to do, like having a flag-file saying this device should not be accessed anymore, like before i know i'll take the drive off because it needs replacement. is there something to do with this idea and the patch?21:42
zaitcevLike Tripple-O, Swift on undercloud, containing the ring. It has all the right IPs there and devices. And then little containers in the overcloud downloading ring.gz from that undercloud Swift. Voila, cluster map. Just like Ceph!21:43
claygrledisez: hummingbird had something like that - I also wanted to flag drives as READ_ONLY21:43
rledisezclayg: yeah, i like that too21:43
zaitcevso, do open() instead of stat() and maybe look at contents...? If we don't care about overhead anymore suddenly.21:44
claygrledisez: no that's not related to this patch - but would be a huge improvement than this undocumented magic file pull-string to make thinks that aren't mount points tell mount_check they are (?)21:44
claygzaitcev: I mean... rledisez's idea could be cached - check mtime every 30 seconds w/e21:45
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notmynameok, there's a lot going in here21:45
zaitcevor, have an explicit device list somewhere in /srv/node/DEVICES. Read that once, not for every drive.21:45
claygzaitcev: you know the history on mount_check - and how it's inherently racy -
openstackLaunchpad bug 1693005 in OpenStack Object Storage (swift) "mount check is racy" [Undecided,New]21:45
zaitcevhelps if you have 30 drives21:45
notmynamewhat do we need to do next to make progress in
claygzaitcev: *totally*21:46
patchbotpatch 466255 - swift - Make mount_check option usable in containerized en...21:46
rledisezxattr on the mountpoint? (is that even possible?) the inode wuld be in cache everytime so it could be fast21:46
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notmyname(1) it seems like there's a ton of stuff to talk about with drives21:46
claygnotmyname: merge it!  it's not the worst cruft we've ever taken on and all the "right ways to fix it" aren't really the author's problems.  PLUS *containers*21:46
notmyname(2) tdasilva doesn't think we need a feature branch21:47
tdasilvanotmyname: I'd suggest wait on for cschwede_ to be back next week and comment on the direction he would like to take. I also would prefer a less hacky approach, and maybe we can live with mount_check=false for now21:47
zaitcevIt always was racy, yes. The idea is to prevent Swift from doing a ton of work only to find that OSerror pops21:47
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notmynametdasilva: good. can you cork it (a -2) until he gets back?21:47
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zaitcevokay, so decision is to delay and kick the mount check can down the road a bit? I can rubber-stamp that.21:47
notmynameand we need to get resolution on the lstat() or not21:48
tdasilvanotmyname: done21:48
notmynameok, moving on. one more big topic21:49
claygtdasilva: with correct permissions you can avoid ever filling up root partition - if you plumb check_dir into account/container server (there's an existing patch from PavelK) you can have fast-507 response - I see no *technical* reason to need to make unmounted paths pretend to be mount points21:49
notmynamethanks for being patient, especially for those who live where it is very early or very late21:49
notmynamethis next topic is for you21:49
notmyname#topic new, alternate meeting time21:49
*** openstack changes topic to "new, alternate meeting time (Meeting topic: swift)"21:49
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notmynamein Boston, we talked about the fact that many of us cannot be at this meeting (hello mahatic) or it's very difficult (hello kota_, matt, cschwede_, etc)21:50
tdasilvaclayg: totally makes sense. thanks for the detailed explanation on bug
openstackLaunchpad bug 1693005 in OpenStack Object Storage (swift) "mount check is racy" [Undecided,New]21:50
notmynameso we proposed having a new bi-weekly meeting at a better time21:50
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notmynamehere's the proposal...21:50
notmynameWednesdays at 0700, every two weeks, starting next week21:51
notmyname(this is at 12:00am wednesday in california)21:51
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notmynamethis time slot is pretty good for about everyone who doesn't live between Boston and SF ;-)21:51
notmynamemahatic has agreed to chair the first meeting. I'll probably try to be there, too, for the first one21:52
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notmynamebut mahatic has also asked to rotate the chair. that will be one of the first meeting topics21:52
jeffliit is 3pm in China. That would be great.21:52
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notmynamejeffli: yes. you're amazing for being here at this meeting now :-)21:53
notmynamethe plan is to have a community sync point, like this meeting, where those who don't live in North America can more easily attend21:53
jungleboyjDarn timezones, 2 am in Minnesota.21:53
notmynamewe'll still have this weekly meeting21:53
notmynamelike all the things we've done in the past, we'll try it out and adjust as needed21:53
notmynamethe point is that our global community can communicate21:54
claygand please *talk* about stuff!  Whatever you're working on - just get together and make sure you say which bugs are annoying you and which patches you wish you had time to review (or don't understand why they're not merged)21:54
rledisezwould the topics be the same or a different topic list?21:54
notmynameclayg: well, said21:54
notmynamerledisez: different topic list21:54
claygI may not be awake/online at 12:00pm - but I *will* read the logs21:54
claygevery week21:54
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acolesnotmyname: 0700 UTC right?21:54
claygunless they get boring - so make sure you throw in a few jokes at my expense to keep me on my toes21:54
notmynamethis week, I will work with mahatic on getting the meetings wiki page updated with an agenda, and I'll also send a ML announcement about it21:54
notmynameacoles: correct21:54
claygrledisez: I think it should have it's own adgenda - but I think we should keep it on the same page21:55
kota_let me make sure the bi-weekly setting21:55
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claygif nothing specific comes up - you can discuss what was discussed in the past two weeks of regular scheduled meetings21:55
kota_do we have a couple of meeting per 2 weeks?21:55
notmynamethe challenge for all of us is to ensure that we don't use it to have two separate communities. we've still got to all be communication (not the meeting 1 group and the meeting 2 group doing different things)21:55
kota_or switch the time?21:56
clayg"does anyone who wasn't there have any thoughts on that stat call zaitcev was going on about last week?"21:56
notmynamethe first meeting will be in 7 days. the second will be 21 days from now21:56
notmynameie 2 weeks after teh first meeting21:56
notmynameMay 31 and June 1421:56
zaitcevclayg, you've already shot that question down as the root of all evil, by Knuth21:56
tdasilvanotmyname: does that mean that for folks that attend both meetings, they might have two meetings on the same day that are either very late or very early? i'm thinking someone like kota_21:57
notmynametdasilva: correct (however 0700 isn't very late for him. 4pm)21:57
tdasilvaor maybe not, i think it's already thursday for him21:57
claygkota_: I think this meeting isn't going away or changing21:57
notmynameI DO NOT expect that anyone should feel required to attend both meetings21:57
kota_tdasilva: strictly meaning, it's not both in a day (Wed and Thu morning)21:57
zaitcevJapan raises right about this time, I can tell by looking at Pawoo.21:57
kota_clayg: ok, thx21:58
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claygkota_: half as often - in a different timezone some of the same people that come here will come to a different meeting with perhaps other people that stuggle to make this meeting and try to remember that swift is happening *everywhere*21:58
claygand when people who use swift talk - ~magic~ happens21:58
acolestdasilva: the Europeans will get to have two meeting on same day :)21:58
notmynameI'll also admit that the 2 meeting coordination will be hard. but we've got a great community, and we'll work it out21:58
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claygtdasilva: acoles *loves* the swift meeting tho - he wishes he could have three a day every day21:59
notmynameyikes, we're at full time for this meeting21:59
tdasilvaacoles: oh yeah, it's the Europeans that have a sucky time, like 7am and 2221:59
acolesclayg: I have the log on continuous replay ;)21:59
notmynameit will be a lot better for onovy and seznam21:59
onovyit's 8/9 am for us22:00
kota_oops, run out of time?22:00
claygonovy: make PavelK show up too!22:00
onovyclayg: ok22:00
notmynameok, we're at time. gotta close this meeting. thank you, all, for your work on swift!22:00
tdasilvathis is really cool, i'm excited about this second meeting and making it easy for huge part of the community to participate22:00
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openstackMeeting ended Wed May 24 22:00:39 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)22:00
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