Tuesday, 2017-05-30

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hongbin#startmeeting zun03:00
openstackMeeting started Tue May 30 03:00:05 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is hongbin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.03:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.03:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zun)"03:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'zun'03:00
hongbin#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun#Agenda_for_2017-05-30_0300_UTC Today's agenda03:00
hongbin#topic Roll Call03:00
*** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: zun)"03:00
hongbinhi Namrata mkrai03:00
hongbini knew today is chinese holiday03:00
hongbinperhaps not too much ppl will join today03:00
mkraiOk so do we have our meeting?03:01
hongbinlet's pause for a few minutes for potential attendees, we could have a short meeting today03:01
mkraiWhat is the holiday?03:02
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hongbindragon boat festival03:02
mkraiYes I searched in google03:02
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hongbinok, let's get started03:02
hongbinNamrata: i am reviewing your heat patch03:03
hongbinNamrata: just uploading a revision for a few fixes03:03
Namrataokay will go through it and update the patch03:03
hongbinNamrata: will continue to test the patch and might upload a few more revisions03:03
hongbinNamrata: ack03:04
Namrataand regarding the heat doc I havent started yet03:04
NamrataI will do that by this week03:04
hongbinNamrata: sure, thx03:04
hongbinNamrata: you have taken another import BP03:04
hongbinNamrata: which is hte python35 bp03:04
hongbinNamrata: do you still have time to work on it ?03:05
Namratawill try to this week03:05
Namrataif i will not be able to i will unassign it03:05
hongbinNamrata: sure03:05
hongbinNamrata: thanks Namrata03:05
Namratathanks hongbin03:06
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hongbinmkrai: you wanted to give a short update about your work?03:06
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mkraiBut I haven't been working much on Zun these days due to other priorities at work03:07
mkraiBut I will be posting few patches these week to the api doc03:07
hongbinmkrai: ok, take your time03:07
mkraiAnd after that I want to complete the image api.03:07
mkraiThat's all03:08
hongbinmkrai: thx madhuri03:08
mkraiNow hongbin do you want to tell us about your work?03:08
hongbini will give a short update of my part03:08
hongbini am working on the cinder spec03:08
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/468658/03:09
hongbinit is still a WIP, but you could take a look at it if you interest03:09
mkraiI will take a look this week03:09
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hongbinthe idea is to make the volume driver pluggable as other drivers03:09
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hongbineventually, i want to decouple from fuxi because there are several limitation of fuxi03:10
mkraiOk so cinder is also configurable03:10
hongbinmy major concern is that operators might find it overhead to install an extra service03:10
hongbinmkrai: yes, it should be03:10
hongbinmkrai: they will have a choice between direct cinder and fuxi03:10
mkraiAh I see03:11
mkraiBut I had this impression that Fuxi is used by Cinder03:11
mkraiWhat is the relation b/w these two projects?03:11
hongbinfuxi is used by cindre?03:11
mkraiI am not sure03:11
hongbincinder is a docker volume plugin03:11
hongbinfuxi is a docker volume plugin03:12
hongbinwhen user create a data volume in docker api, docker call fuxi, fuxi calls cinder/manila03:12
mkraiOk got it03:12
hongbinif fuxi is hte driver, the flow is zun->docker->fuxi->cinder03:12
hongbinif cinder is the driver, the flow is zun->cinder03:13
mkraiOk so cinder can also be used by docker directly03:13
hongbinit needs be used via a driver , i.e. fuxi/flocker/rexray03:13
hongbinoh, if you mean the cinder driver in zun, then yes03:14
mkraiI will read the spec for more clarity03:14
hongbini guess that is all from me03:15
NamrataI will also traverse through the spec03:15
hongbinthe last thing i want to bring up before ending the meeting03:15
hongbinwe need a critical fix: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/468961/03:16
hongbincurrently, we cannot use CLI to spin up a container, so we need this fix03:16
mkraiOk I wil review this right now03:16
hongbinneed both of you to review it :)03:16
Namratayeah sure03:16
Namratawill review the same03:16
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hongbinok, that is it03:16
hongbinthanks for joining the meeting today03:17
mkraiThank you03:17
hongbinsee you next time03:17
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"03:17
openstackMeeting ended Tue May 30 03:17:16 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)03:17
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-05-30-03.00.html03:17
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-05-30-03.00.txt03:17
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-05-30-03.00.log.html03:17
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samPHi all for masakari04:00
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samP#startmeeting masakari04:00
openstackMeeting started Tue May 30 04:00:54 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is samP. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.04:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.04:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: masakari)"04:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'masakari'04:00
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samPhi o/04:01
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samPrkmrHonjo: hi04:01
samPI haven't had enough time to change the agenda in wiki, just the date04:02
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samPseems like only few members are here..04:02
samPAnyway lets start..04:02
samP#topic critical bugs04:02
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samP#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/masakari/+bug/169076804:03
openstackLaunchpad bug 1690768 in masakari "Notification status will be "error" if recovered instance was "resized"." [High,In progress] - Assigned to Dinesh Bhor (dinesh-bhor)04:03
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samP#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/468770/04:03
samPThanks Dinesh ^^04:04
rkmrHonjoI commented to the patch. It looks good to me.04:04
abhishekkHi all, we are facing network issue in office04:04
samPrkmrHonjo: OK thanks04:04
rkmrHonjoabhishekk: Hi04:04
samPabhishekk: NP04:04
abhishekkrkmrHonjo: hi04:05
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abhishekkmy response might be slow as I am joining from mobile04:06
abhishekkSorry for inconvenience04:06
samPabhishekk: NP, lets wait for a while...04:06
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samPrkmrHonjo: Yesterday you told that you wants to discuss something about VM_Status and how to recover them. Is this related to Dines's fix?04:07
rkmrHonjoI'd like to talk about https://bugs.launchpad.net/masakari/+bug/1692435 . And the patch for that report is not pushed yet.04:08
openstackLaunchpad bug 1692435 in masakari ""ERROR" instances will be unexpectedly changed to "ACTIVE" when host failure happenes" [Undecided,New] - Assigned to Dinesh Bhor (dinesh-bhor)04:08
rkmrHonjoBut, I think that we should decide the policy for instance's state.04:09
rkmrHonjo"Error" instance will be recovered as "ACTIVE" now. Is this correct or not?04:10
samPrkmrHonjo: it is not correct04:10
abhishekkrkmrHonjo: as per new solution this instance will be stopped04:11
samPrkmrHonjo: In my point of view masakari should not try to activate error instances04:11
samPFor other states, https://bugs.launchpad.net/masakari/+bug/1690768/comments/504:11
openstackLaunchpad bug 1690768 in masakari "Notification status will be "error" if recovered instance was "resized"." [High,In progress] - Assigned to Dinesh Bhor (dinesh-bhor)04:11
samP#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/masakari/+bug/1690768/comments/504:12
abhishekksamP: rkmrHonjo: we are working on that and will push.patch today04:12
samPabhishekk: thanks04:12
rkmrHonjoabhishekk: thanks a lot. I'll review the patch.04:13
abhishekkTesting is complete, just some refactoring is required04:13
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abhishekkrkmrHonjo: thanks :)04:13
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samPI was disconnected04:16
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abhishekkrkmrHonjo: samP: does it sound good that instance which are in error state will be stopped after evacuation?04:16
samPAny other bus to discuss?04:16
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samPabhishekk: my worry is, VM will start before you stop it.04:17
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abhishekkYes, that is true and we dont have any controll over that :(04:18
rkmrHonjosamP: I think that we can't avoid the behaviour.04:19
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samPabhishekk: yep.. in current nova code, we cant04:19
samPHowever, does it make sense to stop after rebuild in evacuation?04:20
samPI mean, if the instance is in stopped state, then it will evacuate to stopped state. not for active state. right?04:21
abhishekksamP: yes04:21
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samPTherefore, we can consider 2 options, (1) stop it before evacuate, (2) evacuate to given VM state04:22
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samPIn (1), I dont think we nova API can stop the instance and change its status to "stopped", with broken compute-node04:23
samPOn the other hand, (2) needs to fix nova.04:24
samPmatter of fact, need to fix nova for (1) also04:25
abhishekksamP: right, but I doubt nova will accept this04:25
samPabhishekk: I could understand the reason for (1)04:26
samPabhishekk: Do you think (2) also not acceptable for nova?04:26
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abhishekksamP: for 2 as well that is expected behavior from nova's point of view04:26
samPabhishekk: right..that may be the expected behavior... but not what we expect..:)04:28
abhishekksamP: nova is not allowing evacuation of instances which are having vm state other than active, error and stop04:28
abhishekksamP: :)04:28
rkmrHonjoOr, modify Reset State API? For example, cinder's Reset state API can change the status freely.04:29
samPrkmrHonjo: I think in nova, we had this discussion...04:29
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abhishekkBecause in case of resize it will be overhead to know to which flavor instance has resized and will require to perform whole action again04:31
abhishekkrkmrHonjo: this will also not acceptable because changing vm_state to resized or shelved does not make any sense04:32
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rkmrHonjoabhishekk: thank you for explaining.04:33
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samPabhishekk: thanks04:33
samPI could not find the like to previous discussion..04:34
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samPLet's think about this... for next week I will crate some details on etherpad for this.04:35
rkmrHonjosamP: tahnks.04:36
abhishekkSo can we push the patch or not04:36
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abhishekkBecause in current patch we are stopping the instance after evacuation04:36
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samPabhishekk: you can push the patch, with current nova code we could not do nothing else04:37
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abhishekksamP: ok04:37
samP#action samP create doc for how to rescue in to stopped state04:38
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samPAny other bugs to discuss?04:38
samPif not, let go to Discussion points04:39
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samP#topic Discussion04:39
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samPabhishekk: thanks for update on recovery-method-customization04:40
samPI will review new changes04:40
abhishekksamP: ok04:40
samPAny updates on other topics?04:41
abhishekkFor destructive testing we are checking rally-hooks04:41
samPabhishekk: thanks04:41
abhishek_k#link https://docs.openstack.org/developer/rally/plugins/implementation/hook_and_trigger_plugins.html#problem-description04:42
samPabhishekk: thanks.. (not directly related to masakari... right?)04:42
abhishek_kusing rally_hooks it is possible to trigger some faults like restart rabbitmq, openstack services, mysql etc04:42
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abhishek_ksamP: yes :)04:43
abhishek_ksamP: sorry for mixing :)04:44
samPabhishek_k: Lets make a another place for destructive testing topics..04:44
rkmrHonjosamP: +104:44
abhishek_ksamP: agree04:44
samPabhishek_k: NP.. I will send a mail to ML.04:44
abhishek_ksamP: yes04:44
samPso we can discuss how to proceed with that...04:45
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samPabhishek_k: BTW, thank you for the work04:45
abhishek_ksamP: thanks :)04:46
rkmrHonjosamP: What kind of tag will be added to the mail? QA?04:46
samPfrom my side, Force Stonith04:46
samPrkmrHonjo: It will be QA and LCOO04:46
samPfrom my side, Force Stonith is almost done. I will push it soon04:47
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rkmrHonjosamP: ok, I got it.04:47
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samPOther than that, I think no more updates on Pike work items04:47
abhishek_ksamP: thank you, we will like to understand how it will work :)04:48
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abhishek_ksamP: need to review doeumentation patch04:48
samPabhishek_k: thanks.. I will do that04:49
abhishek_ksamP: #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/459516/04:49
abhishek_ksamP: thank you04:49
samP#action samP review documentation patch04:49
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samPif no other topics, lets move to AOB04:51
samP#topic AOB04:51
*** openstack changes topic to "AOB (Meeting topic: masakari)"04:51
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samPGreg was trying to push new spec for Intrusive Instance Monitoring.04:52
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samPHowever, he was having some problems with git04:52
samP#link https://www.mail-archive.com/openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org/msg106194.html04:52
samP#link https://www.mail-archive.com/openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org/msg106186.html04:53
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samPI couldn't find any problem with spec repo side...04:53
rkmrHonjoI read that mail, but I have no idea why he failed.04:53
Dinesh_BhorsamP: me too04:54
samPme neither04:54
samPif you find some useful info, please let him know..04:54
rkmrHonjosamP: sure.04:55
samPmay be rebase and do it again will do the trick04:55
samPlest wait for the replay..04:55
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samPAny other topics?04:55
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abhishek_ksamP: nothing from us04:56
Dinesh_BhorMasakari PY27 job is failing right now. This patch unblocks it: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/468767/ It will be great if someone approves that.04:56
sagaraSorry, I have no..04:56
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samPDinesh_Bhor: done04:57
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Dinesh_BhorsamP: thanks04:57
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samPIts almost time and let's finish the meeting here.. please bring other topics to ML or #openstack-masakari04:59
samPThank you all04:59
Dinesh_Bhorthank you all04:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"04:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue May 30 04:59:33 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)04:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-05-30-04.00.html04:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-05-30-04.00.txt04:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-05-30-04.00.log.html04:59
rkmrHonjothanks, bye.04:59
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igordcard#startmeeting network_common_flow_classifier14:01
openstackMeeting started Tue May 30 14:01:14 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is igordcard. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: network_common_flow_classifier)"14:01
igordcardhi all14:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'network_common_flow_classifier'14:01
igordcardagenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/CommonClassificationFramework#Discussion_Topic_30_May_201714:01
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igordcardhi hai_shi14:02
igordcardhi davidsha14:02
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igordcardhai_shi: interested in the CCF?14:03
igordcardhi bcafarel14:03
igordcardalright let's dive in14:04
igordcard#topic Closing the spec14:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Closing the spec (Meeting topic: network_common_flow_classifier)"14:04
igordcardthe newly-submitted v16 spec: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/333993/1614:04
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igordcard(neutron-specs is kinda broken, sphinx dependency has to be capped at <1.6.1, will probably submit a patch to fix it soon)14:05
igordcardanyway, we didn't have any critical issues or critical requests on the v15 spec14:06
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igordcardso I'd say we have enough agreement on the spec now and it can now be reviewed with the goal of merging14:06
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igordcardlike I talked with kevinbenton at the summit, I will now request him to give rights to the neutron-classifier repo14:07
igordcardso we can start submitting and merging code14:07
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igordcardthis is it, really14:09
igordcardany questions?14:09
davidshacool, I'm good.14:10
igordcardmoving on...14:10
igordcard#topic Access to the repository14:10
*** openstack changes topic to "Access to the repository (Meeting topic: network_common_flow_classifier)"14:10
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igordcardwell I've kinda addressed this topic already14:10
igordcardgoing to ask for access to neutron-classifier, start commiting code and building the team from there14:11
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igordcarda first commit will "wipe" the existing neutron-classifier code14:11
igordcardmoving on...14:11
igordcard#topic Open discussion14:11
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* bcafarel has his coffee ready for open discussion14:12
* igordcard was exactly wondering if everybody had their coffees ready14:12
davidshaSo the first commit is just to wipe the repo correct?14:12
igordcarddavidsha: yep I think that's the safest14:13
igordcarddavidsha: so we don't swim in the old code14:13
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davidshaigordcard: ack, I suppose a deprecation period isn't necessary because there has never been a release of classifier14:14
igordcarddavidsha: exactly, as far as I understand it was a PoC14:14
bcafarelwill the wipe pass the current gates for the repo?14:15
igordcardwe got some inspiration from that PoC, and we've credited them in the spec, but with a whole new codebase for it, there's no point in keeping the old code laying around the new code14:15
davidshabcafarel: Hopefully!14:16
* igordcard removes the last comma14:16
igordcardbcafarel: it might be a soft wipe, as in wipe everything PoC-specific, but keep what makes it an openstack repository14:16
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bcafareligordcard: or even full wipe+cookiecutter, this should be enough for the generic gates14:18
igordcardbcafarel: yep I'm not the most familiar with cookiecutter (yet), but that sounds about right from what I've heard/seen14:18
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davidshaWill we need to look into expanding the test cases in neutron-classifier as well through the governance repo?14:19
reedip_just joined in14:19
reedip_traffic ....14:19
davidshareedip_: hey14:19
reedip_need to catch my breath14:20
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igordcarddavidsha: for now the repo will be ungoverned so we can technically do whatever we want, but we should aim towards being compliant to then become neutron stadium or maybe neutron-lib14:20
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igordcardthe effort required to make the ccf compliant, and to maintain it over time, has to be evaluated and we have to know who is willing to participate on that14:22
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igordcardbut for now let's just get an initial version out, then work on 1 or 2 consumer PoCs14:22
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davidshakk, I'll try to work out a QoS one, when I get the chance.14:23
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bcafareland I still hope to find some time to do one for SFC14:25
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igordcardgreat, great14:25
davidshabcafarel: sfc will be tricky won't it, you'll need to maintain support for the flow classifier plugin also correct?14:26
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bcafareldavidsha: indeed, I will probably try to parse the ccf first, then add local parameters (if any)14:27
bcafarelnot sure if it will be the end method, but for a POC it would be enough14:28
bcafareland for the demo only use ccf :)14:28
davidshabcafarel: ack, make sure to link me in the patch!14:29
bcafareldavidsha: sure will :)14:30
igordcardhmm the flow classifier plugin isn't needed for the sake of being needed14:30
igordcardit's simply what the project has for defining traffic classifications14:30
davidshaigordcard: it would need to be deprecated over a release though.14:30
igordcardhaving said that, it should have a deprecation period14:31
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igordcardthe main sfc API (including create-port-chain --flow-classifier UUID) could be kept completely unchanged14:31
igordcardbut the UUID would internally come from a different source14:32
igordcardthe problem is that the flow classifier API is also being used14:32
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igordcardbcafarel: maybe we could make the sfc plugin lookup classifications in both the flow classifier tables and in the CCF? and have the flow classifier API as deprecated14:33
davidshaigordcard: you could try with the flow classifier api and catch the exception if the ID doesn'thave a FC db entry.14:33
davidshathen try classifier.14:33
igordcardbcafarel: or change both APIs so that port-chain can choose either --flow-classifier or --classification-group, each would lookup in a different place14:33
igordcarddavidsha: yeah also14:34
bcafarelhmm I like the general idea yes!14:34
bcafarelboth cases that leaves the existing flow classifier alone, which is simpler14:35
igordcardbut yeah for PoC is fine, the rest should be with the networking-sfc team and the neutron-lib experts14:35
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igordcardalright great people, I think this is it14:36
igordcardthanks for coming14:37
davidshaThanks, cya!14:37
igordcardI'm going to pursue access to the repo now, cya in gerrit!14:37
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bcafarelnext meeting, we have a repository? ;)14:37
igordcardbcafarel: yesss14:37
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"14:38
openstackMeeting ended Tue May 30 14:38:05 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)14:38
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/network_common_flow_classifier/2017/network_common_flow_classifier.2017-05-30-14.01.html14:38
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/network_common_flow_classifier/2017/network_common_flow_classifier.2017-05-30-14.01.txt14:38
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/network_common_flow_classifier/2017/network_common_flow_classifier.2017-05-30-14.01.log.html14:38
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yuval#startmeeting karbor15:02
openstackMeeting started Tue May 30 15:02:11 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is yuval. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: karbor)"15:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'karbor'15:02
yuvalHello everyone. Most of Karbor's contributors will not attend the meeting today because of holidays15:02
yuval If anyone would like to discuss, please say so in the next 5 minutes, otherwise I'll end the meeting15:02
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openstackMeeting ended Tue May 30 15:06:45 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:06
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-05-30-15.02.html15:06
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-05-30-15.02.txt15:06
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ihrachyssorry lost track of time16:01
ihrachysanyone to quickly discuss CI?16:02
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ihrachys#startmeeting neutron_ci16:02
openstackMeeting started Tue May 30 16:02:25 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ihrachys. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.16:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:02
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ihrachys#topic Action items from prev meeting16:03
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ihrachysthe last time was 3 weeks ago, that's a long time16:03
ihrachysfirst was: jlibosva to post a patch to disable port sec for trunk scenarios16:03
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jlibosvauh, I need to look into gerrit16:03
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ihrachysI see this https://review.openstack.org/#/c/462227/16:03
jlibosvaoh, I did :)16:04
jlibosvajenkins voted -1 but it seems it's not related to the change16:04
ihrachysI see the test still fails16:04
ihrachysin scenarip16:04
ihrachysfor dvr16:04
ihrachyswhich suggests the patch hasn't helped?16:04
ihrachysor wasn't it an expectation that it will heal the failure?16:05
jlibosvayes, I hoped it will heal16:05
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jlibosvait seems that parent port didn't even get address from dhcp16:06
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ihrachysFailed to start Raise network interfaces16:07
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ihrachysthat's in console log for the instance16:07
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jlibosvaI'll investigate that16:08
ihrachysI guess we won't be able to get more data from inside the instance. the details are probably in journald.16:08
ihrachysok great, let's move on16:08
ihrachys#action jlibosva to understand why instance failed to up networking in trunk conn test: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/462227/16:09
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ihrachysok next is "jlibosva to talk to higher summit beings on python3 gate strategy for Pike"16:09
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jlibosvaso there was a discussion regarding python3 goal16:10
jlibosvaas part of the forum16:10
jlibosvathe requirement is to have functional and integration test running python316:10
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jlibosvaas there is a lack of overview where other projects stand in the transition, the goal I think slips into Queens16:11
ihrachyswe talked with kevinbenton afterwards, and agreed that functional could be a good start because we control the pipeline there.16:12
ihrachysas for integration, it's harder because we depend on broader strategy. we can't really move independently there.16:12
jlibosvabut I also briefly talked with kevinbenton about what tempest configuration makes most sense for us. to not consume gate resources, I think it makes sense to have at one tempest job16:12
jlibosvayeah, functional first, that's for sure16:13
jlibosvaI was more wondering about the tempest configuratoin as neutron testing matrix is huge. So for tempest we'll go with multinode dvr - maybe +ha. The most complex scenario16:14
haleyb+1 to that16:14
ihrachysre ha: we don't have +ha anywhere. I would say that should be achieved first for py2 before we look to transit to py3.16:14
jlibosvathat's why the "maybe" word. :)16:15
ihrachysok. focus on functional for now, and we'll revisit tempest once closer to passing func.16:15
ihrachysI started py3 work for func16:15
jlibosvayep, I see you already started :)16:15
ihrachysthere is now a experimental job for that16:15
ihrachysand we landed some fixes already16:15
ihrachysI think it's still ~150 failures right now. but a lot of them are identical16:16
ihrachysI would say, ~7 distinct failures probably16:16
jlibosvamaybe we could fetch a list of failures and put them in sort of groups with similar failures16:16
jlibosvaand split the failures among members16:16
jlibosvaso we don't work on the same failure16:16
ihrachysthis is the gerrit topic to use for py3 functional work: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:func-py316:17
ihrachysjlibosva, that would be nice, yes. who's up for the job?16:17
jlibosvaI can take some failures16:17
jlibosvaor you mean to fetch the list?16:17
jlibosvaI can do that too16:17
ihrachysyeah, fetch and categorize16:18
ihrachysthen we can spread the load16:18
ihrachysand ask others to help16:18
jlibosvaok, I'll make a list, on etherpad probably16:18
haleybi should be able to take some as well16:18
ihrachys#action jlibosva to fetch and categorize functional py3 failures16:18
ihrachyshaleyb, nice, let's wait for the list and then see if we want to pull external help16:19
ihrachysjlibosva, thanks for handling it16:19
ihrachysjlibosva, please use the etherpad we had before16:19
jlibosvayeah, makes sense16:19
ihrachysI mean https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/py3-neutron-pike16:19
ihrachysok, next item was organizational and handled so I will skip it16:20
ihrachysnext is "jlibosva to report fullstack trunk failure bug once he has a reproducer"16:20
ihrachysjlibosva, you have stuff on your plate don't you?:)16:20
* ihrachys recovers context on that one, sec16:20
jlibosvaso if I remember correctly - I suspected ovs to delete bridge16:20
jlibosvabut then I realized fullstack runs in parallel and we don't have isolation of ovsdb data between fullstack ovs-agents16:21
ihrachysthis is the context: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ci/2017/neutron_ci.2017-05-02-16.01.log.html#l-12216:21
ihrachysthat's another trunk failure, now in fullstack16:22
jlibosvawhich means - all ovs-agents running in fullstack will start processing all trunk ports16:22
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ihrachyshm. will they irrespective of l2 extension being on?16:23
jlibosvaand once trunk port is deleted, whoever gets the notification first from ip monitor will remove also the trunk bridge. As only one server is the source of truth, other servers will say they don't know this trunk16:23
jlibosvaas a consequence it leaves subport patch ports between br-int and trunk-bridge16:23
jlibosvaihrachys: can you explain?16:23
ihrachysoh sorry. you mean two ovs agents running in scope of the same test case?16:24
ihrachysnot cross test race?16:24
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jlibosvacross test race16:25
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jlibosvain case we have two agents in the same test, both agents will think they handle the trunk .. so they get correct information from server16:26
ihrachyshm. how does the agent detect removal? independently of server?16:26
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jlibosvayep, it gets events from ip monitor that tap device was removed and will start processing trunk removal16:26
jlibosvasince all agents use the same ovsdb, all of them will get this event and start processing16:26
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ihrachysaha. and all of them monitor the same thing.16:27
ihrachysmakes sense16:27
jlibosvathere were attempts in the past to have multiple ovsdb running but it didn't go well16:27
jlibosvaI don't know any details though16:27
ihrachysit may make sense to talk to ovn/ovs folks, they should know better.16:28
jlibosvaovs devs said ovsdb has never been designed to run with other ovsdb process on the same node16:28
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ihrachysI would start with reporting a bug and collecting ideas from ovs folks.16:29
ihrachysif nothing else, maybe we can somehow tell agents to handle their own devices only (like passing a prefix for devices)16:29
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ihrachysjlibosva, what's the next step?16:30
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jlibosvaihrachys: I was thinking about hacked l2 agent for fullstack that would react only on its resources. But I don't like the idea that we have hacked agents (we already have l3 and dhcp). In the end we end up testing hacked neutron but not neutron16:31
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jlibosvaI also vaguely remember otherwiseguy saying something about having ovsdb events per agent. I'll need to talk to him16:32
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ihrachysyeah, but if we are limited by ovs, we can make a workaround. ofc first thing would be asking for alternatives/experimenting with isolated ovsdb.16:33
ihrachys#action jlibosva to talk to otherwiseguy about isolating ovsdb/ovs agent per fullstack 'machine'16:33
ihrachysI guess we covered all items from the prev meeting16:34
ihrachys#topic Grafana16:34
*** openstack changes topic to "Grafana (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)"16:34
ihrachysI don't see anything horrific there16:34
ihrachysjust scenarios and fullstack failing for reasons already discussed (all trunk)16:34
ihrachysfunctional job stays stable despite gating.16:35
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jlibosvathere was a functional pike yesterday16:35
ihrachysofc sometimes it flickers but not a lot16:35
ihrachysgate or check?16:35
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jlibosvalet me check the gate16:35
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ihrachyshm yeah I see it 30% yesterday. do we have an idea?16:36
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jlibosvaI didn't look at failures. Also the gate has some kind of pike. makes sense as gate won't get triggered if check is busted16:37
ihrachysI actually see one failure that doesn't seem neutron specific. like:16:37
ihrachysand I saw that in the past16:37
ihrachysfor some reason mostly in functional job.16:37
ihrachysI believe there was some infra issue with shade that infra tackled the prev week. could be a fallout.16:38
ihrachysthe reason why it hits functional job can be because of how we (ab)use devstack to deploy rootwrap/deps in the job.16:38
ihrachysstill would make sense to have a look closer.16:38
ihrachysI will take it16:39
clarkbihrachys: I don't think that it is related to shade. Since that is devstack checking the local machine to determine its IP16:39
ihrachys#action ihrachys to understand why functional job spiked on weekend16:39
clarkbihrachys: that looks like a bug in devstack unable to handle the ip ranges in citycloud. I can poke a bit more16:39
ihrachysclarkb, in regular devstack-gate runs, do we preconfigure the IP in localrc?16:39
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clarkbihrachys: I think we may. Though someone wanted to stop doing it16:40
ihrachysok. maybe this logic is not triggered in regular jobs and hence doesn't bother other projects. I will poke clarkb once I have a grasp of impact and read d-g.16:40
ihrachysclarkb, citycloud, is it something new?16:41
clarkbyes it is a new cloud we are running jobs in16:42
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clarkbwith 4 regions16:42
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ihrachys#topic Gate setup16:45
*** openstack changes topic to "Gate setup (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)"16:45
ihrachysI was looking at the jobs that we have in check queue lately16:45
ihrachysf.e. see in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/468056/16:45
ihrachysand I see a lot of -nv jobs16:45
ihrachysI wonder if we need them all.16:45
ihrachysfor one, what's gate-tempest-dsvm-neutron-identity-v3-only-full-ubuntu-xenial-nv ?16:46
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ihrachyshasn't we enabled v3 in gate for other jobs?16:46
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clarkbihrachys: yes I think devstack is v3 by default now, so we can likely drop those identity-v3 jobs acorss the board. Double check with keystone and qa ?16:47
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ihrachysclarkb, thanks for the info. I will check.16:48
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ihrachysthen there is gate-tempest-dsvm-neutron-dvr-ha-multinode-full-ubuntu-xenial-nv that seems passing (not sure how stable it is)16:48
haleybihrachys: i think that's the one i just added16:48
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ihrachyshm nice. so you are monitoring it?16:49
haleybyes, i've been watching, it generally rises and falls with all the other jobs16:50
ihrachyshaleyb, what's your plan re this job? will it replace any existing ones?16:50
haleybihrachys: it replaced another one, basically swapped it to the experimental queue16:51
ihrachysyeah but I mean, will it be promoted to voting (replacing something?)16:51
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haleybit should be able to replace the dvr-multinode tempest job if the failure rates are equal, i will look how it's behaved recently16:52
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ihrachysyeah I think dvr-multinode are good candidates.16:54
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ihrachys#action haleyb to monitor dvr+ha job and maybe replace existing dvr-multinode16:54
haleybi don't know what the multinode-full job difference is, so there might be multiple overlaps16:54
ihrachys#action ihrachys to talk to qa/keystone and maybe remove v3-only job16:54
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clarkbhaleyb: the regular multinode-full job is going to run the full tempest suite against multinode setup without dvr16:55
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clarkbhaleyb: in that case controller node is also a network node and all things terminate there16:56
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clarkbassuming dvr works with live migration we can likely drop non dvr multinode everywhere as its definitely not as interesting as the dvr multinode case I think16:56
haleybso i guess we have to keep that non-dvr job then, but for the rest might as well have all the moving parts16:57
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ihrachysI feel there is some scoping/writing up to do. the set of l3 job flavours becomes hard to comprehend.16:57
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ihrachysonce we would have the scope, we could bring it to wider team to see what we can afford to drop16:58
haleybyes, i will track down all the settings, perhaps something like the single-node one can go away in favor of the multinode (non-dvr), for example16:58
ihrachysone can argue both ways - either that legacy mode should stay covered, or that dvr only should stay (in addition to the new dvr/ha)16:58
ihrachyshaleyb, afaik single node was a requirement for integrated gate in the past, but maybe now that we have multinode, it can go away.16:59
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ihrachysok we are at the top of the hour16:59
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ihrachys#action haleyb to analyze all the l3 job flavours in gate/check queues and see where we could trim17:00
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ihrachysthanks folks17:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:00
jlibosvathanks, bye \o17:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue May 30 17:00:22 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ci/2017/neutron_ci.2017-05-30-16.02.html17:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ci/2017/neutron_ci.2017-05-30-16.02.txt17:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ci/2017/neutron_ci.2017-05-30-16.02.log.html17:00
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lbragstad#startmeeting keystone18:00
openstackMeeting started Tue May 30 18:00:03 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is lbragstad. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:00
lbragstadping ayoung, breton, cmurphy, dstanek, edmondsw, gagehugo, henrynash, hrybacki, knikolla, lamt, lbragstad, notmorgan, rderose, rodrigods, samueldmq, spilla, aselius18:00
lbragstad#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting18:00
lbragstadagenda ^18:00
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lbragstadhow is everyone?18:00
gagehugoweekend was too short18:00
samueldmqhi all18:00
lbragstadgagehugo: ++18:00
samueldmqgagehugo: need more? :)18:00
gagehugosamueldmq it would be nice18:01
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lbragstad#topic announcements18:01
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*** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:01
lbragstad#info spec freeze is next week18:02
lbragstadfor reference this is what we have committed for specs this release18:02
lbragstad#link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/keystone-specs/18:02
lbragstadwe have several others in review - so this week is our last week for the final push without requiring a spec freeze exception18:03
lbragstaddoes anyone have questions on specs that have been merged or are in flight?18:03
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lbragstadwe will need reviews on the unified limits spec18:04
lbragstad#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/455709/18:04
ayoungkill it18:04
ayoungimpossible to implement18:05
ayoungwill cause world famine18:05
lbragstadwe also have the API key/application specific password one in flight yet18:05
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lbragstad#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/450415/18:05
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lbragstadthat's about all i have for specs18:07
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hrybackicrickets love specs18:07
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lbragstad#topic outreachy program starts today18:08
samueldmqlbragstad: api-key + limits?18:08
*** openstack changes topic to "outreachy program starts today (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:08
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ayoungso we are punting on RBAC in middleware?18:08
samueldmqthere is also the policy ones correct, I saw you have a few outlining that18:08
lbragstadsamueldmq: two of those are general documents18:09
lbragstadsamueldmq: that don't really tie to any work18:09
samueldmqlbragstad: neat18:09
lbragstadsamueldmq: the third is the one that would require some work for us, but i realize it's late18:09
lbragstadas far as the RBAC in middleware - we're missing feedback from other projects18:10
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lbragstadunless johnthetubaguy is around?18:11
ayoungyou are never going to get it18:12
ayoungonce people understand a problem, they jump right to implementing their own, service specific solution18:12
ayoungbest to just leave them out of it and solve the problem for them18:12
lbragstadayoung: let come back to this in open discussion18:13
lbragstadrodrigods: o/18:13
rodrigodshey everyone18:13
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rodrigodsso the new round for the outreachy program starts today18:13
rodrigodsand we have an awesome intern, lwanderley18:13
lwanderleyhi, everyone :)18:14
lbragstadlwanderley: o/18:14
rodrigodsshe will be working in the LDAP integration tests18:14
knikollalwanderley: o/18:14
samueldmqlwanderley: welcome aboard18:14
rodrigodsfinally addressing this for us18:14
hrybackican we get context -- one liner on the outreachy program (sorry if everyone else already knows)18:14
gagehugolwanderly o/18:14
lbragstadhrybacki: ++ good question18:14
samueldmqthat's great, also remember we have sjain who will be working on docs18:14
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raildohrybacki, https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Outreachy18:15
rodrigodsme and raildo are going to mentor her in the project18:15
knikollarodrigods: have we decided what ldap backend we're using for the integration tests?18:15
samueldmq#link https://gnome.org/outreachy/18:15
hrybackiahh, wonderful. Thanks raildo rodrigods18:15
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raildohrybacki, it's an intern program from OpenStack and other Open Source projects :)18:15
rodrigodsknikolla, open ldap for now (it is the current plugin devstack provides)18:15
lbragstadrodrigods: lwanderley the openstack-ansible folks are looking to do something similar for their gate18:16
rodrigodslbragstad, awesome18:16
lbragstad(standup keystone with open ldap to test with)18:16
samueldmqdevstack does support setting up ldap to a certain degree, doesn't it ?18:16
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rodrigodsthe project is a really cross-project effort and will involve lots work in keystone, devstack and possibly tempest18:16
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lbragstadit might be worthwhile to check in with that group18:17
ayoungsamueldmq, it did at one point18:17
knikollasamueldmq: yes. anybody confirms that it still works? i don't think that piece of code has been touched in over a year.18:17
rodrigodsknikolla, it is currently broken18:17
samueldmqayoung: ah cool, I had the impression there was something in there (not sure it worked)18:17
rodrigodswill be lwanderley first task to fix it :)18:17
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lbragstadlooks like the library is still there - https://github.com/openstack-dev/devstack/blob/dec121114c3ea6f9e515a452700e5015d1e34704/lib/ldap18:18
knikollarodrigods: ok, cool!18:18
knikollalwanderley: good luck18:18
ayoungshould be set up as part of the keystone gate job if we don't want it to break again18:18
rodrigodsayoung, absolutely18:18
raildoayoung, ++18:18
rodrigodsthat's the idea18:18
lbragstadayoung: that's exactly what openstack ansible wanted to help us with during the PTG in Atlanta18:18
knikollarodrigods: still leaving the code in devstack, or splitting it out as part of our devstack plugin?18:19
ayoungfix the devstack one first18:19
ayoungalways work from success18:19
ayoungmove it to Keystone as step 218:19
rodrigodsknikolla, what ayoung said :)18:19
lbragstadfwiw - we will be splitting out our tempest plugin into it's own repository next release https://governance.openstack.org/tc/goals/queens/split-tempest-plugins.html18:19
lbragstad#link https://governance.openstack.org/tc/goals/queens/split-tempest-plugins.html18:19
rodrigodslbragstad, ++18:20
raildoayoung, should be a mentor with us, haha18:20
samueldmqlbragstad: that's great18:20
ayoungraildo, Qui ducis super ducis?18:20
ayoungQui docent doctores?18:21
ayoungWho mentors the mentors?18:21
knikollait's turtles… ehmm… mentors all the way down18:22
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lbragstadrodrigods: raildo lwanderley don't hesitate to ping me if you need anything18:23
raildolbragstad, thanks :)18:23
rodrigodsbe certain that we will18:23
lbragstadrodrigods: cool, anything else on the outreachy front?18:23
lwanderleylbragstad: thanks :D18:23
lbragstadlwanderley: thanks helping out!18:24
lbragstadthanks for*18:24
* lbragstad can't type after holiday s18:24
lbragstadmoving on18:24
lbragstad#topic open discussion18:24
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:24
lbragstadfloor is open18:24
clarkbI'm trying to go through e-r's uncategorized bugs and classify them today and ran across an itneresting thing with grenade + keystone18:25
lbragstadclarkb: o/18:26
clarkbtempest times out to keystone logged at http://logs.openstack.org/36/458636/16/gate/gate-grenade-dsvm-neutron-ubuntu-xenial/5f07eaa/logs/tempest.txt.gz?level=DEBUG#_2017-05-23_19_00_51_09818:26
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clarkbthen in the keystone log we find that that user isn't found http://logs.openstack.org/36/458636/16/gate/gate-grenade-dsvm-neutron-ubuntu-xenial/5f07eaa/logs/apache/keystone.txt.gz?level=WARNING#_2017-05-23_19_01_18_40818:26
clarkbpossible upgrade/migration bug?18:26
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clarkbin any case would be good if keystone could look into it a bit more18:27
lbragstadclarkb: cool - is there a current bug open?18:27
clarkbno thats as far as I have gotten18:27
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lbragstadis anyone interested in taking a poke at this?18:28
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ayoungSo, back to my question18:29
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lbragstadclarkb: i'll set aside some time later to look into it. I'll probably open a bug to track stuff for now though18:29
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ayoungis Keystone abdicating its responsibity to implement a reasonable RBAC solution?18:30
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lbragstadclarkb: but thanks for bringing this to us18:30
ayoungDo we really have an obligation to do any more begging for feedback from people that have shown they do not care?18:30
lbragstadayoung: no18:30
ayoungOK, then approve the dang spec.18:31
lbragstadseveral folks have expressed concerns with the approach18:31
ayoungOr provide a better viable spec18:31
morganproviding actionable requests is important18:31
morganif the concerns are actually blocking the approval18:31
lbragstadand it's something that impacts projects, getting their opinion and buy in is important if the approach is going to be successful18:32
morganif they are "I dunno, this looks wrong", we can't hold things up on that18:32
lbragstadi know i had concerns on the upgrade approach18:32
ayoungthey have built broken policy based on Keystone not providing the appropriate tools18:32
ayoungwe need to fix 96869618:32
ayoungand we need RBAC in middleware18:32
morganas long as they are actionable "hey, upgrade needs to be more clear because X, how dow e do that"18:32
morganthat is reasonable18:32
ayoungand both have been laid out18:32
lbragstadtwo separate but related things18:32
ayoungand both are sitting there18:32
morganand we should demand improvement to the spec.18:33
morganbut again if it is "i don'18:33
morgant like this" or #bikeshed18:33
morgani'll support approving as long as the main concerns that are actionable are addressed/not still an issue18:33
morganayoung: is that fair?18:33
morganlbragstad: ^ same question to you18:34
lbragstadThere was a ton of feedback on the spec after it merged18:35
lbragstad#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/391624/18:35
lbragstadI'd like to make sure those things are addressed, along with the upgrade case18:35
morganthat souinds pretty specific/directed18:35
morganespecially the questions on the upgrade case(s)18:35
ayoungupgrade was answered several times18:36
lbragstadayoung: where?18:36
edmondswI remember being upset when it merged because a bunch of comments hadn't been addressed yet18:36
lbragstadwhat happens if a project changes a policy and upgrades18:36
ayounglbragstad, in the weekly policuy discussion, and with an update doc18:36
edmondswso it's not just post-merge comments18:36
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ayoungwe need a better way to do new development18:37
ayoungthis is not workable18:37
lbragstadthe default route?18:37
lbragstadwhich is in keystone database18:37
ayounglbragstad, I think I can link directly...18:38
lbragstadcould be completely different from the default registered in a service18:38
lbragstadthere is nothing keeping the two defaults in sync18:38
lbragstadif new policies are added to the service (which are added to the default policies in code) how do we ensure those are added to keystone new API for storing all that data?18:39
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lbragstadI can't see how that is going to be pleasant for operators to handle anyway I look at it (but I'll defer to operator opinion here, too)18:40
ayounglbragstad, short answer is, we start by defaulting to services continue to enforce "Admin required" in policy.  Default rule would be "Member".  Once we can clean up Admin in policy, we make the default rule "Admin"18:40
ayoungand I know I added that to the doc....18:40
ayoungAh...but I'm l;ooking at the old review...one sec18:41
lbragstadDoes the address the upgrade case?18:41
lbragstadA lot of projects want to move towards fixing or improving default roles (introducing roles that make sense)18:42
lbragstadwe're going into this knowing that those changes are coming down the pipe18:42
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ayounghttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/452198/8/specs/keystone/pike/role-check-from-middleware.rst  line 537 or so18:43
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lbragstadayoung: yes - sure18:44
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lbragstadayoung: but again, that's a blanket default that can be inconsistent from the default the service or project has implemented18:44
ayoungIf anyone touches Default roles without being a regular attendee of the Policy meetings they are in a state of sin18:44
ayounglbragstad, no18:44
ayounglbragstad, projects no longer get to say anything about roles18:45
ayoungthe role data is not their to touch18:45
ayoungthere is exactly one role they can depend on18:45
ayoungand that is admin18:45
ayoungthe rest of it is data managed in the keystone database, and can be a huge array of anything18:46
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lbragstadthat goes back to my cross-project communication bits, i don't see signoff for any of that18:47
ayoungThis is what Keystone is supposed to do.  I'm willing to entertain alternate approaches to solve it, but solutions need to be applicable across all the projects.18:47
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ayoungnova does not get to Veto18:48
lbragstadayoung: have you talked to the other core services yet?18:48
ayoungfor years18:48
ayoungincluding recently18:48
lbragstadayoung: about *this* specifically18:48
lbragstadhow this affects them18:48
lbragstadand what this means for their project18:48
ayoungyou mean beside scheduling a full session about it at the Openstack summit and have it filled with Keystone plus 1 or 2 others?18:49
ayoungYou mean other than all the effort you know I have put in to this?18:49
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lbragstadayoung: I'm not questioning your effort, i'm looking for buy in from the other projects that this won't be another failed attempt18:50
ayounglbragstad, this will not be a failed attempt because it bypasses their approval18:50
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ayoungit does in middleware what it should be doing./18:50
ayoungNote sdagues comment on the 968696 wtyuff...18:50
ayoung"so, I don't really understand why we would leak through this implementation detail on is_admin_project to Nova instead of having keystonemiddleware and oslo.context process the abstraction for us."18:51
ayoungthey want the solution to be in middleware18:51
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ayoungif we could solve 968696 in middleware, they would be happier18:51
ayoungand so would I18:51
ayoungwhy, then, should we shirk our responsibilituy on RBAC18:52
ayoungwhich is totally a Keystone Kreation?18:52
ayoungreferenced comments here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/384148/18:53
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lbragstadayoung: what sdague is saying there is why don't we have oslo.context process the is_admin_project bits for us, not do the middleware role check18:54
ayounglbragstad, please give me more credit than that, and more closely read what I wrote.18:55
ayoungI know exactly what he was asking for there.  And I was explicitly extrapolating.18:55
lbragstadayoung: the reason why i say that is because he left the same response here - http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-May/117534.html18:55
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ayoungregardless of what we call it, policy needs to know about it at the scope check level18:56
ayoungwe could call it godmode and it would make no difference18:56
ayoungit can't be done in middleware18:56
lbragstadayoung: regardless - i can take an action item to follow up with him to get clarification18:57
lbragstadbecause it sounds like we're talking about two different interpretations18:57
ayounggo for it18:57
lbragstad#action lbragstad to follow up with sdague about comments on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/384148/18:57
ayoungI'm done.  I'm going to let you drive this.18:58
lbragstadalright - we have a couple minutes left18:58
ayoungCall me if you need clarification18:58
lbragstadanyone else have anything?18:58
lbragstadayoung: will do, thanks18:58
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hrybackilooks like that's it18:59
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lbragstadyep - thanks for coming18:59
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"18:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue May 30 18:59:54 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-05-30-18.00.html18:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-05-30-18.00.txt18:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-05-30-18.00.log.html18:59
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fungicc infra-team.c -Wall -ansi -lmeeting -o now19:00
fungiaction items and topics courtesy of bkero and pabelanger19:00
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* fungi refreshes the agenda looking for any last-minute additions19:01
ianwso we're done faster19:02
jeblaircan we distcc and just use the cache from last time?19:02
bkero-fomit-instructions # what are we doing here?19:02
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fungijeblair: that's basically what i do by copying a meeting template ;)19:02
fungiokay, let's get compiling19:03
pabelangerdistcc saved me when I was doing a bunch of work on an embedded powerpc box. Mac G4 FTW19:03
fungi#startmeeting infra19:03
openstackMeeting started Tue May 30 19:03:18 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:03
fungi#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting19:03
fungi#topic Announcements19:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
fungi#info OpenStack general mailing list archives from Launchpad (July 2010 to July 2013) have been imported into the current general archive on lists.openstack.org.19:03
fungi#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack/ OpenStack general mailing list archives19:03
fungias always, feel free to hit me up with announcements you want included in future meetings19:03
fungi#topic Actions from last meeting19:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
fungi#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-05-23-19.02.html Minutes from last meeting19:04
fungibkero draft an upgrade plan for lists.o.o to xenial19:04
fungii saw you talking about this a lot last week in #openstack-infra19:04
fungihave you firmed up any thoughts about it yet?19:04
fungigot a new etherpad you can #link?19:04
bkeroYes, I took the snapshot and did the update similar to the precise -> trusty update. The update went about as expected with the new version serving the content.19:04
bkeroI haven't had it send any test emails yet, I'll need to crete some mailman accounts/admins to be able to do that.19:05
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fungii saw one hiccup where the data was somewhere other than where teh package expected it? did that get sorted out?19:05
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bkeroThe lockfile directory didn't exist was the problem with that. I haven't nailed down the reason yet, although the service was running.19:06
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bkeroWe could manually create it root:mailman with 2775, although I'd prefer to have that handled by the package. Maybe --reinstall will create it for us.19:06
fungicould have to do with how we disabled services before taking the snapshot maybe?19:06
* fungi is grasping at straws19:06
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bkeroThe dir is created by the package, although maybe with an upgrade something is different19:07
clarkbbut it existed on the lists.o.o server19:07
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bkeroIt likely existed on the snapshot before do-release-upgrade-ing as well19:07
fungiso something cleaned it up... is it in a directory which doesn't persist between boots (e.g., /var/run)?19:07
bkerojeblair had the theory that systemd manages /var/run and clobbered it for us19:07
jeblairyeah, it doesn't persist across reboots.  normally the init script makes it when starting mm.19:08
fungiyeah, i wouldn't be surprised (not actually bashing systemd here)19:08
jeblairso only a problem if you upgrade a system which had not run the program since boot.19:08
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fungiright, that is teh sort of direction i was going as well19:09
pabelangerseems to make sense19:09
fungiokay, i guess let's do what we can to test and maybe next week get a topic on the agenda to discuss a time to roll forward with the production upgrade window assuming it seems viable?19:09
bkeroSounds good to me19:10
fungiwe probably don't need quite so long of an outage as we took for precise->trusty since we're not doing the filesystem conversion as part of the maintenance again19:10
bkeroFor a trail, things done on the snapshot for the update are listed on the trusty etherpad: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/lists.o.o-trusty-upgrade19:10
bkeroUnder "Things done on snapshot:". Should likely be moved to a new etherpad.19:11
fungi#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/lists.o.o-trusty-upgrade has notes about the xenial upgrade for now19:11
clarkbmight be nice to have an etherpad for xenial upgrade without the unneeded noise from the trusty upgrade19:11
clarkbjust to make it clear when reviewing/executing19:11
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fungiagreed. also if we can get some rough runtime estimates for things like the system package upgrading step, that will help inform our maintenance duration for the announcement19:12
bkeroGood point. For that I might need another snapshot to time the tasks.19:12
fungijust give one of us a heads up in #openstack-infra when you're ready for another instance booted from the original snapshot19:13
fungishouldn't need a new snapshot, just a new instance19:13
fungianyway... thanks bkero, jeblair, clarkb and everyone else who has helped with this so far. sounds like excellent progress19:14
fungi#topic Specs approval19:14
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)"19:14
fungi#info APPROVED: "Nodepool Drivers" spec19:14
fungi#link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/nodepool-drivers.html "Nodepool Drivers" spec19:14
jeblairyay!  tristanC started hacking on this too19:14
fungithis reminds me, we should consider adding a help-wanted section to the specs page where we keep specs that have no assignee (yet)19:15
fungithough in this case it's getting picked up fairly quickly19:15
jeblairfungi: good idea19:15
fungi#action fungi propose a help-wanted section to our specs index for unassigned specs19:15
fungi#topic Priority Efforts19:16
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Meeting topic: infra)"19:16
funginothing called out specifically here, though the spec approved above is closely related to the "Zuul v3" priority19:16
fungi#topic Use ansible for zuulv3.openstack.org (pabelanger)19:16
*** openstack changes topic to "Use ansible for zuulv3.openstack.org (pabelanger) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:17
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/468113 WIP: Use ansible for zuulv3.openstack.org19:17
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fungia nice segue from the zuul v3 priority too ;)19:17
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pabelangerI wanted to get the pulse of people and see if running puppet to bootstrap a server, then have ansible take over as cfgmgmt on the server19:17
pabelangerI know we cannot hard cut over today, but wanted to see if dual stack make sense19:17
fungithat's definitely new territory19:17
fungiin the past we've considered puppet good at configuration management (and mediocre at orchestration/automation) while ansible was held up as sort of the reverse of that19:18
jeblairpabelanger: by bootstrap, do you mean users/mta/dns/iptables/etc?19:18
pabelangerjeblair: yes, template::server.pp today is still puppet19:18
clarkbmy only real concern with this is that there seems to be the thoguht that using ansible will fix the config management issues with the zuulv3 deployment. I think the real issues are independent of puppet/ansible (lack of reporting, slow turn around in application loop, etc) and personally feel effort would be better spent on addressing those problems. But I don't have much time to address either so19:18
clarkbwon't get in the way19:19
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fungii will admit to being pretty uninformed on the current state of ansible as an idempotent/declarative configuration management solution19:19
jeblairpabelanger: (if so, i'd assume you'd want puppot to continue doing that -- so i think it's more both puppet and ansible both cfg-mangaging, just different areas of the system)19:19
jeblairclarkb: i don't think this is intended to "fix the config management issues with the zuulv3 deployment" ?19:19
clarkbjeblair: that was the impression I got from the discussion in #zuul the other day19:20
jeblairhuh, not what i got19:20
clarkbit was basically "the puppet doesn't work and no one is updating it, lets just delete it"19:20
jeblairi thought this was pabelanger likes writing ansible more than puppet.19:20
jeblairagain, not what i got at all19:20
pabelangerjeblair: Well, that phase, user/mta/dns/iptables is a larger change, since it affects more then 1 server. But I think we could do ansible for the long term.  But currently, logic is the only shared code between our servers.  I think having that as puppet then ability to run ansible after might be a go step to migrating19:20
fungii think i missed the discussion. what the current wip change could certainly benefit from is rationale in the commit message19:20
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jeblairzuulv3 puppet will be no more complex than zuulv2 puppet which works just fine19:20
fungiit does more to describe the what without really addressing the why19:21
pabelangerright, I am writing way more ansible the puppet today. That doesn't mean we can upgrade puppet-zuul to support zuulv3.19:21
jeblairthe only complication is if we want the same thing to support v2 and v3.  but that has nothing to do with the language.  you could make that as "easy" by just not supporting both in puppet19:21
pabelangerPersonally, I am hoping to support a 3rd party CI system in all ansible. To provide another option to puppet-openstackci19:22
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clarkbjeblair: the argument I heard was puppet was in the way and ansible would fix the problems. I just think the problems aren't really due to puppet (like lack of reporting, difficulty of local deployment, and slow turnaround in production)19:22
* mordred shows up - sorry, last thing ran over19:22
jeblairclarkb: okay, that's not what pabelanger just said19:22
clarkbI'm fine with using either tool. I just think we are better served fixing those problems before changing tooling19:22
jeblairclarkb: what problems?19:22
jeblairclarkb: what does "lack of reporting" mean?19:23
clarkbjeblair: lack of reporting, slow turnaround in production, and difficulting of local deployment19:23
clarkbjeblair: people making changes to puppet do not know if/when/how their things get applied19:23
jeblairyes you have said that 3 times, and i still don't know what those mean19:23
clarkbwhich will also be true should we use ansible19:23
fungilack of reporting from the puppet apply invocation?19:23
clarkbfungi: yes and generally where the ansible loop is "eg do I just need to wait longer"19:24
jeblairara may help with that19:24
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pabelangerI'd like to get ARA working, but I think we need to do some dev to support our scale19:24
jeblairis anyone working on setting up ara for "puppetmaster" ?19:24
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pabelangerI have looked at it19:24
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jeblairthat would, at the very least, get us back to "last run timestamp" level of reporting19:25
pabelangerAgree, I can first set that up if it is a requirement19:25
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fungiand success/fail output19:25
jeblairclarkb: slow turnaround in production?19:25
clarkbjeblair: it sometimes takes an hour for a config change to get applied19:25
clarkbjeblair: even though we in theory run every 15 minutes19:26
fungithe time between run_all.sh loops?19:26
clarkb(and sometimes longer if ansible has gone out to lunch)19:26
mordredjeblair: fwiw, I thnk cloudnull uses ara for managing openstack clouds - so it might not be too bad for our scale19:26
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clarkbfungi: ya19:26
clarkbjeblair: basically slow turnaround makes it really hard for people to be around and address config changes more iteratively19:26
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jeblairclarkb: gotcha.  we might be able to do some refactoring now, but we can also consider having zuulv3 drive more specific tasks once it's ready.19:27
mordredyah- I think some of that time issue stems from the fact that we're treating it as one single loop - my understanding of how people recommend running things in more ansible-ish ways are to have playbooks broken out a bit more, so that applying an update to system A doesn't depend on applying an update to system b19:27
mordredjeblair: ++19:27
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mordred(specific tasks)19:28
fungiand maybe we can find some way to be more selective about when we do targeted puppet apply for servers impacted by a specific change vs full runs19:28
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pabelangeragree, I think we could debug the execution more too. I know I haven't tried to see why things are slow on puppetmaster19:28
clarkbhttp://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23zuul/%23zuul.2017-05-25.log.html#t2017-05-25T16:52:03 is why I have/had the impression I did re using ansible19:28
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clarkband I just think if we are going to say config management isn't working for us those ~3 reasons are why far more so than ansible vs puppet19:29
jeblairi interpreted that more as mordred saying "if no one wants to write puppet then maybe we should switch"19:29
mordredI agree with clarkb that changing systems will not magically fix anything19:29
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jeblairclarkb: regardless of the different perceptions both of us had to that, i think "all of the above" are relevant, and they are all related19:29
mordredbut - if we're having issues with people fixing the current system because they just don't want to work on puppet any more, then I think that is relevant and a thing we should consider19:29
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clarkbwe already use both tools so happy to use ansible more. I just didn't want us going down that rabbit hole with the idea it will fix the real issues with config management we have19:31
mordredclarkb: ++19:31
mordredtotally agree19:31
jeblairi think there are some things we can do with the hybrid system we have now to address the issues clarkb raised.  i think puppet continues to be workable in the long run.  i also think that if we did want to switch from puppet to ansible, it may further address clarkb's issues and also be more fun for some of us.  :)19:31
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mordredjeblair: ++19:31
* mordred just ++ people today19:31
jeblairmordred: ++19:32
fungii also think that we have a decent enough separation right now between ansible for orchestration and puppet for configuration management and are (mostly) using each to its strengths. if we want to switch that around, as we've said in the past, we need a coordinated plan19:32
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jeblairfungi: yeah, this would be a step over a line we have drawn.  it would be good to know what the steps following that are.  :)19:32
bkeroHaving been at several projects who tried to switch configuration management systems over, I can tell you that there is no endgame there.19:32
bkeroFeature parity is expected, but it never comes19:32
mmedvedeside note from a third-party CI maintainer, switch from puppet to ansible would be painful for us. It is more or less starting from scratch. This at least should be considered if decision is made to go full in ansible19:32
mordredmmedvede: ++19:33
fungipabelanger: also, to reiterate, while discussion in the meeting is useful the commit message for 468113 really needs to summarize the reasons it's being proposed19:34
mordredin fact, I think that's a really good reason why, even if we do make ansible playbooks to install/manage a zuulv3 - we also need puppet modules for the same for puppet-openstackci19:34
pabelangerfungi: right, it was mostly a POC to have people look at code. I am thinking some document outlineing how it might work is the next step?19:35
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mordredsince we have a bunch of people depending on that19:35
fungipabelanger: sure, beefing up the commit message would be a start, but based on the discussion in here so far i'm pretty sure you'd need to start a spec19:35
pabelangerokay, I can start iterating on that19:36
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jeblairi am open to moving openstack-infra to ansible, and at this point, i'd even be okay doing it piecemeal, but i'd like us to agree that's the point we want to get to so that we know the ultimate destination before we start.19:36
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fungibecause the nuances of the decision will make for a very wordy commit message and burying an important decision there when it's broader-reaching isn't great for discoverability19:36
fungii won't #action that as i have no idea what direction you want to take it19:37
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pabelangerperfect, that is all I had on the topic. Thank you19:38
fungiit should also take some of the open specs we have (including the ansible puppet apply spec which is still in our priority efforts list) into account too19:38
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jeblairmeanwhile, i feel that we may need to deploy zuulv3 for openstack-infra before we resolve this issue19:38
jeblair(unless we think we'll have a decision by next meeting)19:39
fungii also expect a number of downstream consumers who are more or less happily using our puppet module now would like to get the benefits of zuul v3 without having to switch up their configuration management significantly19:39
clarkbcan always make the config management turtles go deeper. ansible runs puppet which runs ansible >_> (I'm not serious)19:40
mordredfungi: ++19:40
fungiso for those reasons, fixing what we have now enough to be able to at least initially support zuulv3 seems pretty necessary regardless19:40
jeblairfungi: agreed19:40
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mordredfungi: I definitely think we need to consider puppet-openstackci a first-class deliverable regardless of how we decide to run infra19:40
jeblairfungi: if there's a longer term switch, we should give enough time for folks who depend on puppet-zuul to step up to maintain it before we abandon it.19:41
fungii'm inclined to agree19:41
fungithanks for the interesting topic pabelanger!19:41
pabelangerthanks for chatting about it19:41
jeblairmordred: sure, but realistically, if we move infra to ansible, it will need another maintainer (there may still be overlap) in the long run.19:41
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mordredjeblair: agree19:42
fungithere's nothing else on the agenda, so we can go to open discussion for teh last few minutes and still talk about this if people want19:42
fungi#topic Open discussion19:43
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)"19:43
fungipabelanger: you got a couple of replacement nodepool builders up on xenial, right? how'd that go?19:43
pabelangerfungi: yes, we have 100% migrated19:43
fungilooks like the service is running on them and stopped on the old builders now... time to delete the old ones yet?19:43
pabelangeryup, I can delete them today19:43
clarkband zypper works on xenial (we have suse images booted in clouds now)19:43
pabelangeryes, that too19:43
fungioh, right, we have opensuse nodes! (and jobs!)19:44
pabelangerit should be much easier to bring on new operating systems now thanks to cmurphy work19:44
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fungicmurphy: awesome work!19:44
pabelangermordred: clarkb: did we want to push on citycloud for ipv6 networking?19:44
pabelangerI haven't done anything since friday19:44
fungidid they ever get back to us about the weird extra addresses in that one region?19:45
clarkbpabelanger: maybe? perhaps we first attempt another region to see if it is more reliable there and possibly use stateless dhcp rather than just slaac?19:45
fungior has the problem maybe magically vanished?19:45
clarkbfungi: I haven't heard from them on it beyond that they were looking into it. We worked around it in shade on our end19:45
pabelangerfungi: I thought we pushed a fix in shade too19:45
pabelangerclarkb: yes, I can look at la1 tomorrow19:45
fungioh, right there was that. did it also solve the reasons for the boot failures?19:45
pabelangerthey appear to have decreased19:45
pabelangerbut I see a few still19:46
fungimaybe those are for different reasons too19:46
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clarkbthe only servers in sto2 with multiple private IPs currently are the pabelanger-test server and the multinode set of servers I held for debugging19:46
clarkbI will go ahead and delete the multinode servers, pabelanger's we gave to citycloud as an example so maybe keep that one around a little longer?19:47
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fungimaybe they found/fixed that issue and just didn't reply to us in that case19:47
clarkbya which is what happened with the flavor issue in la119:47
fungibut yeah, let's give them a little longer19:47
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clarkbpabelanger: but re ipv6 maybe lets try the other options available to us first (stateless ipv6 and other citycloud region) and then take what we learn to citycloud19:48
clarkbpabelanger: so far they seem receptive to the feedback so thats good19:49
pabelangerclarkb: wfm19:49
clarkber s/ipv6/dhcpv6/19:49
fungiyep, quite pleased with citycloud's generous assistance and donation19:49
fungiseems like it went really smoothly, all things considered19:50
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fungiand quite a lot of capacity19:50
clarkbI'm looking for feedback on https://review.openstack.org/468705 which is another d-g journald related change to help address SUSE runs19:51
fungidid we hear any further news about the kolla job failures they (at least originally) thought were only manifesting in citycloud?19:51
clarkbit puts a little more effort on the end user grabbing the logs but not significantly more19:51
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clarkbprobably need sdague though who appears out today19:51
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clarkbfungi: Ihaven't heard more on that no19:51
fungisdague has the right idea ;)19:52
pabelangerdidn't somebody say there was a web interface for systemd logs?19:52
clarkbfungi: however found a possibly related problem in neutron functional tests where they don't use our ipv4 safe range19:52
clarkbpabelanger: there is but it would require work to make useful for our current steup19:52
bkeropabelanger: systemd-journal-gateway19:52
clarkbfungi: so wondering if maybe kolla is also not using the safe range and the IPs are conflicting19:52
fungiclarkb: which web interface was that? a search i just did turned up one called cockpit19:53
jeblairclarkb: i think sdague is out this week19:53
clarkbfungi: the one bkero named, its part of systemd19:53
clarkbjeblair: ah so maybe we need to just decide without him :)19:53
fungioh, cool! and i guess cockpit is a more general management frontend, not just a log viewer19:53
fungilooks like maybe it's systemd-journal-gatewayd (d on the end)19:54
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fungi"serves journal events over the network. Clients must connect using HTTP"19:55
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fungioh, right, discussion in the channel covered some missing features we've come to rely on in os-log-analyze19:56
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fungiespecially hyperlinking to individual loglines19:56
clarkbcockpit does look shiny though I expect it will have similar issues19:56
clarkbbasically everything is built assuming one giant journal19:56
bkeroCockpit is a...big thing.19:57
fungimore likely we'd just teach osla to run journalctl commands under the covers or something19:57
fungiprobably less work than trying to integrate something like those19:57
fungisince we have lots of other logs we still need osla for19:58
fungiso it's not like it's going anywhere19:58
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fungiand we're at time. find us in #openstack-infra for subsequent discussion! (need to make way for the no-tc-meeting now)20:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue May 30 20:00:12 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-05-30-19.03.html20:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-05-30-19.03.txt20:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-05-30-19.03.log.html20:00
jeblairthere is a systemd.journal module for python too20:00
fungiup next, no tc meeting!20:00
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jeblairso might not be too hard20:00
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openstackmartial: Error: A meeting name is required, e.g., '#startmeeting Marketing Committee'20:59
martial#startmeeting Scientific Working Group Meeting20:59
openstackMeeting started Tue May 30 20:59:18 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is martial. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:59
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:59
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Scientific Working Group Meeting)"20:59
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'scientific_working_group_meeting'20:59
martial#chair oneswig20:59
openstackCurrent chairs: martial oneswig20:59
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oneswigHi Martial (again) :-)20:59
martialHi Stig (fancy seeing you here)21:00
trandleshi folks21:00
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oneswig#link Agenda for today https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Scientific_working_group#IRC_Meeting_May_30th_201721:00
martial#topic Collecting together research papers: user stories of Scientific OpenStack21:00
*** openstack changes topic to "Collecting together research papers: user stories of Scientific OpenStack (Meeting topic: Scientific Working Group Meeting)"21:00
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priteaumartial: We usually start the meeting with #startmeeting scientific-wg21:00
oneswigHi trandles priteau21:01
priteauI am not sure if the logs will go to the right place with your command21:01
priteaunothing is showing up in http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2017/ yet21:01
oneswigpriteau: true - what will happen?21:01
martialpriteau: sorry let me see if I can change that21:01
martial#startmeeting scientific-wg21:01
priteauthey're here: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_working_group_meeting/2017/21:01
openstackmartial: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.  Use #endmeeting first.21:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue May 30 21:01:41 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_working_group_meeting/2017/scientific_working_group_meeting.2017-05-30-20.59.html21:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_working_group_meeting/2017/scientific_working_group_meeting.2017-05-30-20.59.txt21:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_working_group_meeting/2017/scientific_working_group_meeting.2017-05-30-20.59.log.html21:01
martial#startmeeting scientific-wg21:01
openstackMeeting started Tue May 30 21:01:47 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is martial. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)"21:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'scientific_wg'21:01
martial#topic Collecting together research papers: user stories of Scientific OpenStack21:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Collecting together research papers: user stories of Scientific OpenStack (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)"21:02
priteaubetter :-)21:02
martial#chair oneswig21:02
openstackCurrent chairs: martial oneswig21:02
oneswigAnd now for something completely different! :-)21:02
oneswigtoo good!21:02
oneswig#link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Scientific_working_group#IRC_Meeting_May_30th_201721:02
oneswigOK, lets get this show on the road.21:02
oneswigBlair sends apologies - he is in flight21:02
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martial#topic Scientific datasets blog from SWITCH21:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Scientific datasets blog from SWITCH (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)"21:03
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martial#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/user-committee/2017-May/002051.html#21:04
martialso switch people?21:04
oneswigright - this was a blog post by Saverio from SWITCH21:04
oneswigit's late night for them.21:04
oneswigI put it on the agenda because I thought it might interest some people (including me)21:04
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martial#link https://cloudblog.switch.ch/2017/05/22/hosting-and-computing-public-scientific-datasets-in-the-cloud/21:05
martial#topic Collecting together research papers: user stories of Scientific OpenStack21:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Collecting together research papers: user stories of Scientific OpenStack (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)"21:05
martialdo we have anybody else able to contribute such user stories21:05
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oneswigI've not previously used Zenodo21:06
trandleswe've been talking about public datasets in the cloud internally but that's as far along as we are21:06
oneswigHow do we check a paper is appropriate for sharing?21:06
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martialI would guess it has to do with the use of the dataset21:10
martialis it public, can it be used, etc ...21:11
oneswigHello TheMistyMay, welcome21:11
martialas for the paper, "user stories" might also be good ways for people to share technology work / success they are having21:12
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martialmaybe we ought to have those peer reviewed21:12
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martialthe plan is still to have those added to a possible v2 of the book?21:12
oneswigmartial: for sure, user stories is another level.  The papers I've seen up on Zenodo are more academic in style21:12
oneswigmartial: I'd like to collect user stories, each being approximately a chapter in scope.21:13
oneswigeg, identity federation (the current work in 'progress' - although I blush to call it that)21:13
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martialhow long are we talking about here?21:14
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martialMike (TheMistyMay) made a demo at the lighting talks, would a 3-4 pages description of why/how/links be a good user story for example?21:14
oneswigmartial: no fixed constraint but a working rule of thumb was about 8 pages (plus some images) in a google doc...21:14
oneswigThat sounds good, but the other sections bring in ~3 related user stories into a common theme - what was the demo on Mike?21:15
TheMistyMayI'd be happy to write something up as a "Helping to Prevent Bit Rot" in the style of a user story21:15
oneswig#link existing work for Scientific WG study here: https://github.com/openstack/scientific-wg/tree/master/doc/source21:16
TheMistyMayIt was a demo of CI/CD build base images for openstack (and other common IaaS). As well as an nginx reverse proxy plugin that took care of authentication so researchers (users) didn't have to worry about edge security.21:17
martialthat actually sounds pretty cool to me21:18
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oneswigThat might be a useful contribution on a wider section on how people go about doing research computing development on cloud - what people sometimes call "ResOps"?21:19
martialoneswig: too early for me and Dmoni and such ... a public beta planned for a couple of weeks from now21:19
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oneswigWhat's interesting to me is that there isn't really an analogy to working at the system image level on conventional infrastructure.  It's a new level of freedom - conversely a new level of burden :-)21:20
oneswigmartial: plenty of time for that though, right?  I think we are targeting November...21:21
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martialoneswig: I know but a user story based on it would be great21:22
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martial(ie will make it happen after we introduce it here)21:23
oneswigMail just in from Lauren Sell - http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/user-committee/2017-May/002091.html21:24
oneswigShould we have people's video picks of outstanding talks they saw in Boston?21:25
martialthat sounds like a good idea to me21:25
oneswig#topic summit video picks21:25
*** openstack changes topic to "summit video picks (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)"21:25
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martial(remembering the presentation name is going to be the tricky part)21:26
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oneswig#link Manila, CephFS at CERN - watched this video, it's quite similar to some things we are doing, was intrigued by the question at the end on RDMA (thought that was not active) https://www.openstack.org/videos/boston-2017/manila-on-cephfs-at-cern-the-short-way-to-production21:28
martial#link Container as a Service on GPU Cloud: Our Decision Among K8s, Mesos, Docker Swarm, and OpenStack Zun https://www.openstack.org/videos/boston-2017/container-as-a-service-on-gpu-cloud-our-decision-among-k8s-mesos-docker-swarm-and-openstack-zun21:29
oneswigOne thing that we are stuck on is that there's no Manila equivalent of provider networks - 'provider filesystems' if you will - I want to manage access to existing filesystems, which can be big and long-lived21:29
trandlesoneswig: +1 on 'provider filesystems'21:30
priteau+1 for the CephFS talk at CERN, that was a good one21:30
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martial#link OpenStack + OpenHPC = HPC Cloud https://www.openstack.org/videos/boston-2017/openstack-openhpc-hpc-cloud21:30
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oneswigCool - something we are interested in too!21:31
trandlesWhat's the deadline on providing some input on videos?  I haven't even had a chance to start through my watch list. :(21:32
oneswigThat you George? :-)21:32
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Georgem_On the train, poor connection:(21:32
oneswigtrandles: lets scrape these links and keep going via openstack-operators in the next few days21:33
oneswigI haven't had a good look through myself yet, not even made it through the HPC/Research track21:34
trandlesOk.  I'll try to provide some feedback by the end of the week.21:34
martial#link The U.S. Army Cyber School OpenStack Use Case: Saving Millions and Making Changes for the Benefit of National Defense https://www.openstack.org/videos/boston-2017/the-u-s-army-cyber-school-openstack-use-case-saving-millions-and-making-changes-for-the-benefit-of-national-defense21:34
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martial(that last one was very interesting, an extension of the keynote presentation)21:35
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oneswigI love the fact they are presenting in uniform!21:35
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TheMistyMayfun fact: cyber schools architecture was build around a deployable mobile cloud architecture that was mission oriented21:36
martial#link Towards a Platform for Science - Initial Lessons from the Science Accelerator Platform at LBL https://www.openstack.org/videos/boston-2017/towards-a-platform-for-science-initial-lessons-from-the-science-accelerator-platform-at-lbl21:36
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martialthat's it for me for now21:38
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oneswigmartial: How was the Cyborg talk in the end - I know that's one you're interested in21:39
martialoneswig: it was very interesting and a good introduction for people to join the team21:39
priteauI haven't watched it yet, but there was another CERN presentation, about containers21:39
priteau#link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOh0dwPGeSM21:39
martialbut my colleague goldenfri is on the team for the presentation, so I will let him talk about it21:40
oneswigpriteau: very interested in new work from CERN OpenLab21:41
martial#link OpenStack Acceleration Service: Introduction of Cyborg Project https://www.openstack.org/videos/boston-2017/openstack-acceleration-service-introduction-of-cyborg-project21:42
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oneswigOK, I'll collect these together and follow up to the list, we'll get a thread going there21:44
martialsounds like a good plan21:44
martial#topic Working Group activities for the new release cycle21:44
*** openstack changes topic to "Working Group activities for the new release cycle (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)"21:44
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oneswigThere's definite interest in updating and extending the studies done so far.21:45
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martialstig: extending those would make a lot of sense I agree21:46
oneswigWhat's bugging everyone else?21:47
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martialstig: as you know, I want to make our set of tools open to the SWG for testing, and hopefully have a stable version for the next in person meeting in November21:48
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martialMy team and I will welcome comments, recommendations and bug reports (and fixes :) )21:49
oneswigmartial: good for you, sounds like a very worthwhile contribution21:49
oneswigYou think it'll be public in a couple of weeks?21:49
martialwe are packaging it internally as an alpha21:50
trandlesbare metal is still bugging me and it looks like progress is being made on that front21:50
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trandlesif that's the case I'll be happy to show off our use case in November21:50
trandlesbut it's nothing new for the WG I'm afraid21:50
martialgoing to try to have a few people to use it, comment on the "docs" ... we all know we write our docs for people who already know how to use it21:50
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martialthen release a beta on github21:51
martialtim: although it is not new, it is still relevant21:51
oneswigtrandles: one area I am hopeful for progress is in the new roles in the Ironic state machine and how that might enable us (with the new Nova scheduler capabilities) to find a more elegant way of reprogramming BIOS and RAID for bare metal instances21:51
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martialtim: looking forward to progress or best case definition21:52
oneswigI think Mike Lowe was interested in continuing the project on handling datasets21:53
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martialstig: I think this is correct21:54
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martialdoes not seem there is much to be discussed today21:55
martial#topic Any other business21:56
*** openstack changes topic to "Any other business (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)"21:56
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martialopen floor...21:56
trandlessorry I'm being pulled in two directions at the moment so only about 50% present here21:56
martialtim: no worries, we understand. Feel free to follow up if you are able to21:57
oneswigAnyone using CephFS in bare metal?  We've got curious problems with metadata latency21:57
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trandlesin fact, I have to run...  I'll follow up on the mailing list thread with video feedback21:57
oneswigbandwidth is good but directory operations really seem to hurt21:57
oneswigsee you trandles21:57
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oneswigI think I've got a blog article to make on it, but only if I can find an answer...21:58
themisty_We're experimenting with bare metal Ceph too21:59
oneswigthemisty_: cool - lets keep in touch - #scientific-wg is the place to be :-)21:59
themisty_:) I plan to try and be around more22:00
oneswigI leave you with this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMwP7nEuDGA22:00
oneswigOK folks, got to pop22:01
oneswiguntil next week22:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"22:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue May 30 22:01:28 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)22:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2017/scientific_wg.2017-05-30-21.01.html22:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2017/scientific_wg.2017-05-30-21.01.txt22:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2017/scientific_wg.2017-05-30-21.01.log.html22:01
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martialdarn that was a good pilot22:02
priteaugood bye22:02
martialbye all :)22:02
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