Tuesday, 2017-06-20

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hongbin#startmeeting zun03:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jun 20 03:00:05 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is hongbin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.03:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.03:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zun)"03:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'zun'03:00
hongbin#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun#Agenda_for_2017-06-20_0300_UTC Today's agenda03:00
hongbin#topic Roll Call03:00
*** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: zun)"03:00
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hongbinthanks for joining kevinz mkrai lakerzhou Namrata03:01
hongbinok, let's get started03:02
hongbin#topic Announcements03:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: zun)"03:02
hongbini have an announcement03:02
hongbini and kevinz will present at openstack day china next month03:02
hongbinboth of us has an accepted presentation about zun03:03
mkraiGreat :)03:03
hongbinthat is all from my side03:03
hongbinany announcement from you?03:03
lakerzhouwill you please share the slides?03:03
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hongbinlakerzhou: sure, i will share mine after the presentation03:04
kevinzlakerzhou: me too03:04
lakerzhouhongbin and kevin, thanks03:04
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hongbin#topic Cinder integration03:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Cinder integration (Meeting topic: zun)"03:04
hongbini am working on a WIP patch to introduce cinder integration03:05
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hongbini don't think it is ready to be reviewed yet, but the idea is there03:06
hongbinbasically, the idea is to connect to the cinder volume and bind-mount it to the container03:07
hongbinthe high level idea has been outlined in a spec03:07
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/468658/03:07
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hongbina WIP patch will be ready to be reviewed soon03:07
hongbinthat is all from me for this topic03:07
hongbinany question?03:08
mkraiThanks Hongbin. I will be happy to review03:08
hongbinmkrai: thanks madhuri03:08
mkraiI think I have one but that might be a vague question03:08
hongbinmkrai: go ahead03:08
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mkraiAfter reeading the spec, why do we have to use os-brick? Cinder doesn't provide the same device info?03:09
hongbinos-brick is the library to connect to different cinder backend03:09
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hongbinthe connection code will be very different for each backend, and os-brick provides a abstracted layer for that03:10
mkraiI see03:10
mkraios-brick is just a library?03:11
hongbinyes, it is a library (not a service)03:11
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mkraiOk thanks for the information03:11
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hongbinand it is maintained by the cinder team03:11
hongbinok, move on to the next topic03:11
hongbin#topic Introduce container composition (kevinz)03:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Introduce container composition (kevinz) (Meeting topic: zun)"03:12
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/437759/ The design spec03:12
hongbin#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-container-composition The etherpad03:12
hongbinkevinz: ^^03:12
kevinzI have several questions to discuss03:12
kevinzFirst is about the Object and db models of Capsule03:13
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hongbingo ahead03:13
kevinzDoes caspule need to include the container uuid? Or   container object store a capsule uuid03:14
mkraiCapsule should store the container uuid03:15
hongbinkevinz: from my perspective, it is better to make container's data model independent, so agree with mkrai03:15
kevinzOK, now I plan to use this: 'containers': fields.ListOfObjectsField('Container'),03:16
hongbinsounds like a good option to try03:16
kevinzCapsule store the container Object entry03:16
kevinzOr just a List of container uuid03:16
mkraiwhat is container object entry?03:17
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kevinzcapsule.containers will point to the container03:18
mkraii mean is it a dictionary or something else?03:18
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kevinzmkrai: I think it is a Object List03:19
mkraiIf we have decided to keep the container and capsule object independent. It will be good to store the container object itself03:20
hongbinmkrai: i think in db level, the capsule object will have a fields called "containers", which is a list of container objects03:21
hongbinsorry, in object level03:21
kevinzhongbin: that's what I mean. Thanks hongbin03:22
hongbini guess that is what kevinz mean as well :)03:22
hongbinListOfObjectsField is actually a list of "container" object per my understanding03:22
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kevinzyes it is03:24
hongbinmkrai: still have doubt?03:24
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mkraiGot it. Thanks03:24
mkraiSo I suggest to store container object in capsule db03:24
hongbinoh, in db level03:25
hongbinmkrai: just want to clarify, what is the goal for this proposal?03:26
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mkraikeep container and capsule db independent03:26
hongbini see03:27
mkraiThe same as you suggested :)03:27
hongbini think we can take this proposal as a homework, and eveyone give it more thoughts03:27
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hongbinkevinz: mkrai i did have some thoughts about the capsule feature, i think it is better to make it as an add-on03:28
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hongbinkevinz: mkrai like a api extension03:29
mkraihongbin: Would you like to tell it now?03:29
hongbinkevinz: mkrai i think this will make the end-users to tell the difference between "container" and "capsule", contianer-api is the core api, capsule is an add-on03:30
hongbinkevinz: mkrai i guess that is how it works in neutron (core api, extension)03:31
mkraiI am in favor of this idea03:31
mkraiOtherwise mixing container and capsule might get complicated in future as well03:32
mkraiSo its better to keep them independent03:32
kevinzI'm OK also, so that all tha API will be separated?03:33
mkraiYes I think so03:33
hongbinkevinz: just an initial idea, there will be a zun-api and zun-capsule-api03:33
hongbinkevinz: like a docker core api, and the swarm api03:34
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hongbin(swarm api is an add-on)03:34
hongbin(if swarm mode is disabled, there is just docker core api)03:35
kevinzhongbin: I see. It's a good point. We can decide to separate it, I think much work need to do03:35
hongbinkevinz: :) yes03:36
kevinzhongbin: So that the in the db level, container and capsule will separated?03:36
kevinzand capsule will maintain its own containers?03:36
hongbinkevinz: from my point of view, separation in api level is important, the data model is optional03:37
kevinzhongbin: got it. I think so. That will reduce the API cost as well03:38
hongbinkevinz: ack03:38
hongbinkevinz: btw, let's keep the disucssion open for this idea03:39
kevinzhongbin: ack:-)03:39
hongbinok, anything else on this topic?03:39
kevinza small one03:40
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hongbingo ahead03:40
kevinzI plan to place the yaml abstract functions in API server side.03:40
kevinzJust mkrai referred in last meeting03:40
kevinzThat's all from my side03:40
mkraiThanks kevinz for the consideration :)03:41
hongbinthanks kevinz03:41
hongbinNamrata: ready to talk about your htea integration work?03:41
kevinzmkrai:hongbin: Thanks for your help03:41
Namratayeah sure hongbin03:42
hongbinNamrata: go ahead03:42
hongbin#topic Add Zun Resources to Heat03:42
*** openstack changes topic to "Add Zun Resources to Heat (Meeting topic: zun)"03:42
Namrata Add Container to Zun resources03:42
hongbinlakerzhou: will talk about nfv as the next topic if you are still there :)03:42
NamrataHongbin update the patch03:42
NamrataThanks for that03:43
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lakerzhouI am still online03:43
NamrataI think only comments need to be incorporated03:43
NamrataSo hope to get this merged this week03:43
digasorry I got very late in joining the meeting03:43
hongbinNamrata: thanks Namrata03:44
hongbindiga: hey, thanks for joinning03:44
hongbinok, next topic03:44
digahongbin: Hi03:44
hongbin#topic NFV use cases03:44
*** openstack changes topic to "NFV use cases (Meeting topic: zun)"03:44
hongbin#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-nfv-use-cases03:44
hongbinlakerzhou: want to drive this topic?03:44
lakerzhouI am try to tackle SR-IOV use case for container first because it is relatively simpler than DPDK. However it is still too complicated. I am breaking it down to three BPs.03:45
lakerzhou1. build PCI resource data model. I am almost done with the design spec. Should have it ready for review tomorrow.03:45
lakerzhou2. Support PciPassthroughFilter in zun scheduler03:46
lakerzhou3. Support SR-IOV usage. It has dependency on Kuryr.03:47
hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/support-pcipassthroughfilter03:47
digalakerzhou: Hi, what dependency we have on kuryr for SR-IOV03:47
lakerzhouOnce I have #1 reviewed. I will finalize #3.03:47
hongbinlakerzhou: ack03:48
hongbinlakerzhou: i couldn't find hte bp for #3, do you have the link?03:48
digalakerzhou: I can help you if you need help on NFV side as I am working closely with OpenStack NFV orchestration team03:48
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lakerzhoutwo major changes in Kuryr. 1. matching a SR-IOV port to endpoint; 2. Binding endpoint to container03:49
lakerzhouHongbin, I don't have a BP for #3 yet03:50
hongbinlakerzhou: ack, mind i assigning you an action item to create a bp for #3?03:50
lakerzhouHongbin: sure, please.03:51
hongbin#action lakerzhou create a bp for supporting SR-IOV usage03:51
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hongbinlakerzhou: i will review the action item in the next team meeting03:51
hongbinlakerzhou: just fyi03:52
lakerzhouAlso, with #1 and #2 completed, we should in better position to support GPU in ZUN.03:52
hongbinsound good03:52
lakerzhouI am working with a large cloud operator with some requirements for GPU work load.03:53
hongbini see, it looks containerized gpu is a trend03:53
lakerzhouI will share the thoughts later. But some example in spec already use GPU as a example.03:54
digaYeah, so many consumers are asking about containerized GPUs03:54
hongbini see03:54
digamostly telcos03:54
lakerzhouthat is all from me. Will send the spec of #1 for review tomorrow.03:55
hongbinlakerzhou: thanks lakerzhou03:55
digaGood work lakerzhou03:55
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hongbin#topic Open Discussion03:56
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: zun)"03:56
hongbinanyone has a topic to bring up?03:56
digahongbin: about cinder integration, yesterday I made the setup ready, will test the patch & push it today03:56
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hongbindiga: ack03:57
digahongbin: will talk to you later as I have some questions on it03:57
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hongbindiga: ok03:57
hongbinanything else to discuss?03:58
hongbinseems no03:58
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hongbinall, thanks for joining the meeting03:58
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"03:58
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jun 20 03:58:51 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)03:58
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-06-20-03.00.html03:58
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-06-20-03.00.txt03:58
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-06-20-03.00.log.html03:58
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Dinesh_Bhorhi all04:01
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sagaraI heard Sampath won't come today's meeting04:02
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rkmrHonjoOK, I start this meeting.04:04
rkmrHonjo#startmeeting masakari04:04
openstackMeeting started Tue Jun 20 04:04:16 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is rkmrHonjo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.04:04
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.04:04
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: masakari)"04:04
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'masakari'04:04
rkmrHonjo#topic Bugs (stuck/critical)04:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (stuck/critical) (Meeting topic: masakari)"04:05
rkmrHonjoDo you have any items to discuss?04:05
tpatilI have reviewed two high priority bugs patches04:06
tpatilCan someone please review these patches?04:06
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rkmrHonjotpatil: Can you paste these URLs on here?04:06
tpatilDinesh: please give the reference of these patches04:06
Dinesh_Bhor#link: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/474184/04:07
Dinesh_Bhor#link: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/468771/04:07
tpatilDinesh_Bhor: thanks04:07
rkmrHonjotpatil, Dinesh_Bhor: thanks, I'll review these patches.04:08
Dinesh_BhorrkmrHonjo: thanks04:09
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rkmrHonjo#action: rkmrHonjo reviews https://review.openstack.org/#/c/474184/ , https://review.openstack.org/#/c/468771/04:09
rkmrHonjohttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/440999/ got two +2 at once, but it failed to pass workflow. So Takahara push new patch. Please review patch set 4.04:11
rkmrHonjotpatil: thank you. I already put +2 for patch set 4.04:12
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rkmrHonjoOptimize the link address https://review.openstack.org/#/c/472008/ is very simple patch. I think that we can review and merge this quickly.04:15
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rkmrHonjoI put +2 for that patch. I can merge this if someone put one more +2.04:16
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tpatilI will review the above patch today04:18
rkmrHonjotpatil: thanks! It won't take long.04:19
tpatilRight , it's indeed very simple patch04:20
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rkmrHonjoDo you have any other items? Let's go to next topic if you don't have it.04:23
tpatilNext topic please04:23
rkmrHonjo#topic Discussion points04:24
*** openstack changes topic to "Discussion points (Meeting topic: masakari)"04:24
rkmrHonjoDo you have any items to discuss?04:24
tpatilAbhishek : please discuss about mistral workflow execution04:24
abhishekkrkmrHonjo: the measure issue in adding mistral driver is business rules we have in masakari04:26
tpatilMistral allows to execute workflow synchronously04:26
tpatilNow we are checking if it's possible to add logic to suffice business rules in masakari engine and execute the evacuate workflow in mistral04:27
tpatilOnce that is analyzed, we will update specs04:28
rkmrHonjotpatil: How long does the researching take? (This question is just a my interest.)04:30
abhishekkrkmrHonjo: we might need to add certain actions in mistral04:30
tpatilPlan to finish it in this week04:30
rkmrHonjoabhishekk: oh, sorry, I didn't know it. What's kind of action will you add?04:32
rkmrHonjotpatil: thank you for telling me.04:33
abhishekkrkmrHonjo: that we are checking now but for example filtering the list to get HA Enabled instances (this action is not there in mistral or else need to analyze existing actions)04:33
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tpatil_We will check the existing evacuate workflow in mistral and see what new things we might need to add there04:35
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rkmrHonjoabhishekk, tpatil: I see. thanks.04:35
rkmrHonjoAre the any other items?04:37
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rkmrHonjoCan I go to next topic?04:39
rkmrHonjook. Do you want to talk about rpm? I'll skip it if you don't want.04:39
rkmrHonjo"rpm" means "rpm packaging". https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Masakari04:41
tpatil_Sampath has all the updates about rpm, rpm packing stuff is all done but some issue with the versioning and tags which he will resolve04:41
rkmrHonjotpatil_: Ah...that's right.04:43
rkmrHonjook, let's go to AOB topic.04:43
rkmrHonjo#topic AOB04:44
*** openstack changes topic to "AOB (Meeting topic: masakari)"04:44
rkmrHonjoI pushed a new spec.04:44
rkmrHonjo#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/473057/ Add event notification feature to masakari04:44
rkmrHonjoI'm appreciate it if you review this spec.04:45
rkmrHonjo(I'm not hurry.)04:46
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tpatil_I have started reviewing this spec. will update my comments in this week04:48
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rkmrHonjotpatil_: thanks a lot!!!04:49
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rkmrHonjook, do you have any other items?04:49
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rkmrHonjook... Time is not over. But we can close this meeting. Can I close now?04:52
abhishekkrkmrHonjo: yes04:52
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abhishekkthank you all, good day04:53
rkmrHonjothank you all.04:53
Dinesh_Bhorthanks all04:53
sagarathank you04:54
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"04:54
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jun 20 04:54:20 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)04:54
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-06-20-04.04.html04:54
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-06-20-04.04.txt04:54
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-06-20-04.04.log.html04:54
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yuval#startmeeting karbor09:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Jun 20 09:01:56 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is yuval. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.09:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.09:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: karbor)"09:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'karbor'09:02
yuvalHello and welcome to Karbor's weekly meeting09:02
yuvalwaiting a couple of minutes for people09:03
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yuvalhey chenying09:03
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edisonxiangHi team09:04
yuvalhey edisonxiang, zhonghua09:04
yuval#info chenying edisonxiang zhonghua in meeting09:04
edisonxianggood morning09:04
yuvalanyone else coming?09:05
yuvallets begin09:06
yuval#topic Karbor releases09:06
*** openstack changes topic to "Karbor releases (Meeting topic: karbor)"09:06
yuvalJust releases 0.3.0 for karbor and karbor-dashboard09:06
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yuvalwe are getting close to Pike release09:07
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yuvalin July 24th we have a feature freeze and final release deadline for python-karborclient09:08
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yuvaltherefor, anything that should be added to python-karborclient (and changes to the dashboard which require an update to python-karborclient) must be released until then09:08
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chenyingI know. I need submit the patches about OSC plugin before that time.09:09
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yuvalchenying: great job on osc, the patch passed09:09
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chenyingyuval: There are some patches about every resource API, need be submitted.09:10
yuvalchenying: I know, I'll review them quickly once they are up09:10
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chenyingyuval: OK Thanks.09:10
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yuvaledisonxiang: are you back on karbor?09:11
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chenyingAbout this patch, network protectable plugin, If the fullstack is OK, I hope it can be merged. chenhuayi is working on the protection pluin about network now.09:12
yuvalchenying: the fullstack fails09:12
edisonxiangyuval: not yet, but if I can do something for karbor, please feel free to ping me09:12
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chenyingyuval: The reason is not in karbor. The cinder-backup service fails because of the rbmit_mq error. I have mention it for several times.09:13
yuvalchenying: ok, I'll review today09:14
chenyingSome guy in cinder may need solve this problom.09:14
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yuval#topic Open Discussion09:15
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: karbor)"09:15
chenyingLast Irc meeting, I suggest that how about holding karbor irc meeting every two weeks? What's your oppions about it?09:16
yuvalYes, we'll hold the meeting once every two weeks, in the time of this meeting09:17
chenyingyuval: Good idea.09:17
chenyingTc now don't ask for periodic irc meeting any more.09:18
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yuvalI'll submit the patch to irc-meetings09:18
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yuvalanything else?09:20
chenyingGood job.09:22
yuvalRight. The next PTG is in Denver, September 11-1509:22
yuvalI'm suggesting to do a VTG - virtual team gathering09:22
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chenyingSound good.09:23
yuvalzhonghua: edisonxiang: ?09:23
edisonxiangyuval: are you going to Denver?09:24
chenyingyuval You means that you will not go to ptg?09:24
zhonghuayuval: what is "VTG"? vedio meeting?09:25
yuvaledisonxiang: chenying: zhonghua: not sure yet. VTG - video09:25
edisonxiangIt's a good idea09:25
yuvalanything else you would like to discuss?09:26
yuvalthanks for attending!09:28
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"09:29
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jun 20 09:28:59 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)09:29
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-06-20-09.01.html09:29
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-06-20-09.01.txt09:29
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/karbor/2017/karbor.2017-06-20-09.01.log.html09:29
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jlibosva#startmeeting networking14:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jun 20 14:00:24 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jlibosva. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)"14:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'networking'14:00
jlibosvahi everyone14:00
jlibosva#topic Announcements14:00
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking)"14:00
jlibosvaI don't have any announcements to make :)14:01
jlibosvadoes anybody have anything to announce?14:01
mlavalleJust remind people that Pike-3 is around the corner14:01
jlibosvait's 27 July, right?14:01
mlavalle#link https://releases.openstack.org/pike/schedule.html14:01
mlavalleyeap, Jul 24 - 2814:02
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amotokinote that library freeze is one week earlier14:02
mlavallegood point14:03
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jlibosvaok, thanks guys for bringing this up14:03
amotokione more thing, (partially related) neutron-fwaas/vpnaas-dashboard repo have been created today.14:03
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amotokii am preparing various things around this. fwaas-dashboard will be part of neutron.14:03
annphi, sorry for late14:03
amotokithat's all14:04
hichiharaamotoki: Core member is you only?14:04
hoangcx_amotoki: +114:04
amotokihichihara: the initial core will be neutron-fwaas-core + horizon-core. it will change gradually14:04
hoangcx_amotoki: will you announce a link to the thread you raised?14:04
hichiharaamotoki: I got it14:05
amotokihoangcx_: no announce thread. i will announce it once the setup is done14:05
hoangcx_amotoki: Yep.14:05
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amotokilet's move on14:06
jlibosvawe can move one14:06
jlibosvaoh, one thing14:06
jlibosvathere won't be a neutron ci meeting today14:06
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jlibosvait was announced on ML14:06
jlibosva#topic Blueprints14:06
*** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: networking)"14:06
jlibosvaas mentioned before14:07
jlibosvawe're in pike-3 now14:07
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jlibosvait seems some blueprints haven't been flipped yet14:07
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amotokiperhaps we need to re-target uncompleted blueprint from pike-2 to pike-314:08
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jlibosvathere are a few14:08
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jlibosvais anybody blocked on his work and need to raise a flag here?14:08
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mlavallejlibosva: a couple of the ones that show up in the pike-3 panel are docs14:09
jlibosvaI think we need to go through bugs and blueprints and flip them to p314:10
jlibosvaso nobody is blocked?14:11
mlavallenobody present in this meeting, it seems14:11
jlibosvaok, let's move on then :)14:12
jlibosva#topic Bugs and gate failures14:12
mlavalletmorin: did you mean your are blocked with a blueprint?14:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs and gate failures (Meeting topic: networking)"14:12
tmorinmlavalle: no, I was just arriving late and saying "hi"14:12
jlibosvawho was bug deputy for last week?14:12
hichiharamaybe kevin14:13
mlavalleKevinbenton took the role last week14:13
jlibosvaI guess kevinbenton is sleeping at this hour14:13
hichiharaI think so14:13
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jlibosvais anybody else aware of anything critical in the gate?14:14
amotokione thing related to gate failure. last week we broke heat dsvm py35 job (though it was already solved)14:15
mlavallewell we have a couple of critical bugs with no owners14:15
jlibosvahttps://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1697533 ?14:15
openstackLaunchpad bug 1697533 in neutron "test_install_flood_to_tun failed with: 'tun_id=0x378' not in u' unchanged'" [Critical,Confirmed]14:15
amotokiI wonder we need to enable some py35 dsvm job from the experience14:15
amotokimlavalle: jlibosva: cover critical bugs first14:16
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jlibosvaamotoki: we're working on functional job with python35 flavor, we had quite a progress there14:16
hichiharaI thought Ihar works it for py3514:16
jlibosvaso the bug I posted looks familiar14:16
jlibosvawe used to have a workaround for it, I remember that required some new openvswitch package14:16
amotokimy point is that some other projects already enable py35 tempest job and we potentially breaks their gate.14:17
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amotokiso I wonder we need to enable minimum set which cover py35 dsvm in addition to the func job. thought?14:18
jlibosvaok, let's talk about py35 first :)14:18
jlibosvaamotoki: we track the py35 goal in Neutron CI meetings14:18
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jlibosvaamotoki: currently we aim to make functional jobs voting so we have some coverage of python3 functionality. Then we want to add tempest14:19
jlibosvaamotoki: do you have a link to that failure handy?14:19
jlibosvaI wonder whether functional job would cover that issue14:19
amotokibug 169835514:19
openstackbug 1698355 in oslo.serialization "py35 dsvm job failing with RemoteDisconnected error" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1698355 - Assigned to Ihar Hrachyshka (ihar-hrachyshka)14:19
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amotokiit turned out an serialization issue and we hit MemoryError in py35. Good finding by Ihar14:20
amotokiIt happend inside db plugin module of SG.14:21
amotokiso I am not sure we can cover it by func job14:21
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jlibosvathat return value should be list sounds to me like UT should be able to catch that14:23
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amotokiyeah, it might be possible. it is a corner case around db_obj vs ovo with netaddr.IPNetwork handing in oslo.serialization.14:24
jlibosvabut yeah, definitely we should move towards having tempest python3 voting14:24
jlibosvathough we still have issues in functional tests that fail on real scenarios - like ip_lib commands14:25
jlibosvawhich would make agents failing14:25
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jlibosvaamotoki: so do you agree that functional tests should be first step?14:26
amotokijlibosva: agree.14:26
jlibosvaand also everyone else :)14:26
amotokiotherwise, we will have more issues in tempest jobs14:26
jlibosvaok, let's move on14:26
jlibosvaI'll assing https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1697533 to myself as I made that workaround there14:26
openstackLaunchpad bug 1697533 in neutron "test_install_flood_to_tun failed with: 'tun_id=0x378' not in u' unchanged'" [Critical,Confirmed]14:26
jlibosvait could be that ovs was updated or something14:26
jlibosvabut I don't see functional job busted, so it probably doesn't happen always14:27
jlibosvaanother critical bug is https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/169637614:27
openstackLaunchpad bug 1696376 in neutron "logging resource UT failures on networking-midonet gate jobs" [Critical,In progress] - Assigned to YAMAMOTO Takashi (yamamoto)14:27
jlibosvawhich has a fix proposed https://review.openstack.org/#/c/471699/14:27
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jlibosvait seems it requires some eyes from fwaas cores14:28
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mlavallejlibosva: I will take a look14:28
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jlibosvamlavalle: thanks!14:29
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reedip_mlavalle : it would be great if you can14:29
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jlibosvaI don't see any other critical bugs14:29
reedip_we are discussing the same on the fwaas meeting14:29
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jlibosvareedip_: is it running right now?14:30
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amotokifwaas uses the same slot at #-meetng-414:30
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reedip_jlibosva : yes14:30
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jlibosvaso unless there is any other critical bug, I'd move to my favourite part of meeting14:31
jlibosvaand that's getting a volunteer for bug deputy role, yay!14:31
jlibosvafor this week14:31
jlibosvaif there is no volunteer then I'll take it14:32
jlibosvaok, sold to me, I'll update wiki after the meeting14:32
amotokiI will be a volunteer for the NEXT week14:32
jlibosvaamotoki: ok, thanks. I'll write you to the wiki page too14:32
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jlibosvalet's move on then14:33
jlibosva#topic Docs14:33
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jlibosvamlavalle: hi :)14:33
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mlavalleI want to highlight that there is a review spelling out the plan to move all the docs to the project trees14:33
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mlavalleIf you don't have much time but still are interested on what is going on, there is a section here that summarizes what is going on:14:34
mlavalle#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/472275/8/specs/pike/os-manuals-migration.rst@23014:34
amotokithe docs-spec is here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/472275/ if you are interrested in what is happening14:34
mlavalleamotoki has already pushed patchsets covering some of thos action items, both for Neutron and the neutron client14:35
mlavalleand I will start moving soon the networking guide to the Neutron tree14:35
mlavalleIf anyone is interested in helping with this process, pelase ping amotoki or me, so we can coordinate14:36
mlavallethat's all from me14:36
jlibosvamlavalle: thanks for updates14:36
mlavalleamotoki: do you have anything else you would like to highlight?14:37
amotokinothing from me14:37
mlavalleI do14:37
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mlavalleI want to highlight the great job amotoki is doing in this area :-)14:37
mlavallethat's all14:37
jlibosvaand all other areas :)14:37
reedip_++ amotoki :)14:37
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jlibosvawe can move on then14:38
jlibosva#topic Transition to OSC14:38
*** openstack changes topic to "Transition to OSC (Meeting topic: networking)"14:38
amotokion OSC side, the remaining few commands are in slow progress14:39
jlibosvaamotoki: hi :) another yours area you are great at14:39
amotokithe remaining things are l3-agent and tags. I am the owner of these patches now.14:39
amotokigood news is that SDK patch on network tag support has been merged and released.14:40
amotokiso we can focus on OSC patches now.14:40
amotokithat's all from me14:40
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jlibosvaamotoki: you mentioned earlier today that libraries have freeze week before p3, is neutronclient considered a library? or it doesn't have a freeze?14:41
amotokijlibosva: this is non-client library freeze14:41
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amotokineutronclent has the same feature freeze as neutron14:42
jlibosvaamotoki: ok, thanks for clarification14:42
jlibosvaand updates :)14:42
jlibosvaI think we can move on14:42
jlibosva#topic Neutron-lib and planned neutron refactoring14:42
*** openstack changes topic to "Neutron-lib and planned neutron refactoring (Meeting topic: networking)"14:42
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jlibosvaboden couldn't make it to the meeting but he updated me beforehand14:43
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jlibosvahe wanted to highlight this spec https://review.openstack.org/#/c/473531/14:43
jlibosvaand also this new extension attribute - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/47557714:44
mlavallehe needs reviewing eyes, I guess14:44
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jlibosvayep :)14:45
jlibosvaand raise awareness14:45
jlibosvaand that's all from boden via me14:45
mlavalleadded to my pile14:45
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jlibosvadoes anybody have anything related to neutron-lib14:46
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jlibosvaI take it as no14:46
jlibosva#topic open discussion14:46
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: networking)"14:46
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jlibosvahas anybody a topic to discuss here?14:47
ralonsohMay I?14:47
jlibosvaralonsoh: sure, go ahead! :)14:47
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ralonsohThere is an small bug in os-vif bug/163237214:47
ralonsohrelated to Neutron, Nova and Neutron-lib14:48
ralonsohBecause the possible change in the API, I need your reviews14:48
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ralonsohAll the information is in PS1 comment14:49
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tmorinsorry, doing two things at a time14:49
ralonsohAnd that's all, thank you in advance14:49
tmorinthere one thing I have about neutron-lib14:49
tmorinhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/467277/ has now had a few reviews, and would benefit from reviews from cores14:50
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ralonsohhichihara: I will appreciate some reviews on this set of bugs14:51
jlibosvaralonsoh: hichihara so what would be the next steps? maybe raising this in a ML?14:51
jlibosvaI think that would be the best way to get feedback from both nova and neutron folks14:52
ralonsohjlibosva: thanks!14:52
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hichihararalonsoh: You're welcome. I agree witch jlibosva because the issue is cross project14:53
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amotokiregarding os-vif one, I am not sure it is an API change or not. we need to check where this new variable is consumed carefully. let's cross check14:53
ralonsohhichihara: I'll do this. Thanks14:53
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jlibosvatmorin: thanks for raising the review here14:54
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jlibosvahichihara: maybe you want to have a look at tmorin 's review :) https://review.openstack.org/#/c/467277/14:55
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jlibosvawe have 5 mins left, any other thing to raise here?14:55
ebbexhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1687896 , suppose I'll just file a new one for the errors we're seeing (that we didn't with another patch) now a "fix" has been released for neutron-rpc-server?14:55
openstackLaunchpad bug 1687896 in neutron "neutron-rpc-server fails to start on configuration that works under neutron-server" [Undecided,Fix released] - Assigned to Sean McCully (sean-mccully)14:55
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hichiharatmorin jlibosva: I'll review again. But we'd like to see bgpvpn members +1 before merging.14:56
ebbexSince technically neutron-rpc-server is actually running, but not very useful :)14:56
jlibosvahichihara: thanks14:56
tmorinhichihara: doude provided a +1, and pcarver as well on a later PS14:57
amotokiebbex: thanks for raising this. neutron-rpc-server needs more users to make it mature.14:57
tmorinhichihara: I'm not sure matrohon will have time to review, and not sure who else is active enough14:57
jlibosvaebbex: maybe it's worth ivestigating why we don't see the failure on the gate14:58
jlibosvaand possibly create a fullstack test for it14:58
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amotokijlibosva: I think we have not enabled it in the gate14:58
hichiharatmorin: I'm OK.14:58
ebbexjlibosva: Yeah, cause I don't think anyone has been running it as two separace uwsgi+rpc before.14:58
jlibosvaebbex: but yeah, if there are other new errors, please file a bug14:58
ebbexjlibosva: thanks :)14:59
tmorinhichihara: I'll see if matrohon can have a look, but please don't wait too long for him14:59
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jlibosvaamotoki: I guess little fullstack test would be a good candidate :) but that might be just me :)14:59
jlibosvaok, we're at the top of the hour14:59
hichiharatmorin: OK. Thanks.14:59
jlibosvathanks all for coming and all the discussions :)15:00
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tmorinhichihara: many thanks to you for your reviews15:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jun 20 15:00:10 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2017/networking.2017-06-20-14.00.html15:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2017/networking.2017-06-20-14.00.txt15:00
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openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2017/networking.2017-06-20-14.00.log.html15:00
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ralonsoh#startmeeting neutron_qos15:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jun 20 15:00:42 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ralonsoh. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_qos'15:00
ralonsohhi mlavalle15:00
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ralonsohhi davidsha, alisanhaji15:01
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ralonsohslawek is not going to attend today, but I have his updates15:01
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ralonsohhi reedip_15:01
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ralonsohlet's start15:01
ralonsoh#topic RFEs15:01
*** openstack changes topic to "RFEs (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)"15:01
ralonsohQoS, in general, has been a bit slow during last weeks15:02
ralonsohslaweq is the most active contributor right now15:02
ralonsoh#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/169295115:02
openstackLaunchpad bug 1692951 in neutron "[RFE] DSCP mark on the outer header" [Wishlist,Confirmed]15:02
ralonsohThis is a new possible RFE15:02
ralonsohit makes sense: currently there is no marking in tunneling headers15:03
alisanhajiYes, I filled it15:03
ralonsohalisanhaji: perfect. Do you have plans to implement it?15:03
davidshaWe could just extend the existing dscp rule with a new field.15:03
ralonsohalisanhaji: OVS or LB drivers15:03
alisanhajiWell I can but we can discuss the possible implementation15:04
ralonsohdavidsha: hmmmm also you should be able to copy the inner one15:04
alisanhajiBoth I think15:04
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ralonsohmlavalle: you have more experience in this. Do you think that should need an spec??15:04
mlavalleralonsoh: I think it will15:05
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mlavallebut before that, has the rfe been discussed int the drivers meeting?15:05
davidshaalisanhaji: Do you intend to have a separate dscp mark for each?15:05
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alisanhajithe solution is to use the MARK field to track the inner header and mark the outer header15:05
davidshamlavalle: Not ye I believe15:05
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mlavalleso the steps should be to have the rfe approved in the drivers meeting and then we can discuss the spec15:06
alisanhajiwe could just copy the inner DSCP but to have extended possibilities, I think we should separate both15:06
ralonsohalisanhaji: please, join http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/#Neutron_drivers_Meeting to discuss it15:07
mlavalleif this team has a strong feeling that this should be implemented, I will take a look at the filed bug and mark it as triaged, so it gets discussed by the drivers15:07
davidshaalisanhaji: kk, It probably won't need a seperate QoS rule, just add a new optional field for encap_mark or such.15:07
ralonsohalisanhaji: IMO, it makes sense15:07
mlavalleralonsoh: ^^^^15:07
ralonsohmlavalle: I agree15:08
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ralonsohperfect, next one15:08
ralonsoh#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/157898915:08
openstackLaunchpad bug 1578989 in neutron "[RFE] Strict minimum bandwidth support (egress)" [Wishlist,In progress] - Assigned to Rodolfo Alonso (rodolfo-alonso-hernandez)15:08
mlavallethe question the drivers have been asking about QoS RFE's is whether you are interested in the feature and whether you have resources to implement15:08
ralonsohmlavalle: this about this spec?15:09
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ralonsohmlavalle: the strict min?15:09
davidsharalonsoh: in general.15:09
mlavallethe comment was for the previous one15:09
mlavalleand in general15:09
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ralonsohin general: we are just two or three people implementing the features15:10
mlavalleif we can answer yes to both questions, drivers will support15:10
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ralonsohmlavalle: I can help/implement the DSCP mark RFE15:10
ralonsohmlavalle: so yes15:10
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ralonsohmlavalle: thanks15:11
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ralonsohmlavalle: what about the strict min one?15:11
davidshaI can review also.15:11
ralonsohmlavalle: because the spec is merged15:12
mlavalleralonsoh: with that one, I think we can move ahead15:12
ralonsohbut the main contributor and parent of the idea, ajo, is not working in the team anymore15:12
mlavalleI understand slaweq__ wanted to do some pieces, right?15:13
ralonsohmlavalle: I mean, I really don't know exactly which was the whole idea, who to implement it15:13
ralonsohmlavalle: I think ajo and me had different ideas about it...15:13
mlavalleI didn't realize that15:14
ralonsohmlavalle: that's the point15:14
mlavallewe could amend the spec15:14
ralonsohmlavalle: ok, I'll try to ping ajo. Do you think this is a good idea?15:14
mlavalleyou are here and if you have a clear concept of wht should be implemented, we can pursue that15:14
mlavalleI do15:15
ralonsohmlavalle: perfect15:15
ralonsohok, let's move to the next one15:15
ralonsoh#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/159661115:15
openstackLaunchpad bug 1596611 in neutron "[RFE] Create L3 IPs with qos (rate limit)" [Wishlist,Triaged] - Assigned to LIU Yulong (dragon889)15:15
ralonsohThe spec is merged15:15
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ralonsohbut there is no activity on the API and the LB implementation15:16
ralonsohI tried to ping the author with no luck15:16
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ralonsohI'll comment again the patches, just to know if he is going to continue the development15:17
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mlavalleyeah, let's do that15:17
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ralonsohperfect, next one15:17
ralonsoh#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1560961:15:17
openstackLaunchpad bug 1560961 in neutron "[RFE] Allow instance-ingress bandwidth limiting" [Wishlist,Fix released] - Assigned to Slawek Kaplonski (slaweq)15:17
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ralonsohgood progress: spec and OVS implementation merged15:17
ralonsohLB implementation: #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/475584/15:18
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mlavalleafter some API turbulence LOL15:18
ralonsohwaiting for reviews!15:18
mlavalleI'll add that to my pile15:18
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ralonsohmlavalle: hehehe but everything could be solved!!15:18
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ralonsohmlavalle: thanks!!15:18
ralonsohslaweq is doing a very good job15:18
mlavalleyeah, he is great15:19
mlavallekeep him happy15:19
ralonsohok, next topic (I think I'm not missing anything)15:19
ralonsoh#topic Bugs15:19
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: neutron_qos)"15:19
ralonsoh#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/169804615:19
openstackLaunchpad bug 1698046 in neutron " Add support for ingress bandwidth limit rules in ovs agent" [High,Confirmed]15:19
ralonsohI'll take this one15:19
ralonsohIs just the documentation15:20
ralonsohfor ingress rules15:20
ralonsohnext one15:20
ralonsoh#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/169793715:20
openstackLaunchpad bug 1697937 in neutron "TC shouldn't raise an exception when deleting qdisc if device doesn't exist" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Rodolfo Alonso (rodolfo-alonso-hernandez)15:20
mlavalleonly doc15:20
ralonsohthat was a bug requested by kevin15:20
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ralonsohthe patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/474244/15:21
ralonsohis waiting for last reviews15:21
mlavalleI'll look at this one today15:21
ralonsohnext one15:22
openstackLaunchpad bug 1676877 in neutron "Increase "TestQosPlugin.test_update_policy_rule" coverage" [Medium,In progress] - Assigned to Reedip (reedip-banerjee)15:22
ralonsohreedip_: how is going the patch?15:22
reedip_havent had the time to relook at it . Will do it after the meeting.15:22
ralonsohreedip_: thanks! I'll keep an eye on this one15:22
ralonsohnext one15:23
openstackLaunchpad bug 1649517 in neutron "qos policy attached to network, qos_policy_id is reflecting on neutron net-show , but not on the port with neutron port-show" [Wishlist,In progress] - Assigned to Reedip (reedip-banerjee)15:23
reedip_ralonsoh : just saw I already had an edit ready . Just pushed it15:23
ralonsohthis one is yours too15:23
reedip_ralonsoh : Just pushed a patch a minute ago15:23
ralonsohnow I see that! so I'll review it after the meeting, perfect!15:24
ralonsohand the last one15:24
ralonsoh#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/169439615:24
openstackLaunchpad bug 1694396 in neutron " qos scenario tests should be skipped if rule type is not supported" [High,In progress] - Assigned to YAMAMOTO Takashi (yamamoto)15:24
ralonsohyamamoto in not here.....15:24
ralonsohwhat a pity15:24
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mlavalleit makes sense, though15:25
mlavalleI mean the bug15:25
davidshaHe went offline about 10 mins ago.15:25
ralonsohI know15:25
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ralonsohbut only one project is using it15:26
reedip_its 0030 there in Japan :|15:26
ralonsohI know that backwards compatibility should prevail15:26
ralonsohbut IMO this change (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/461257/) should be merged and the project affected should modify the code15:26
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ralonsohfollowing the logic of not braking anything, there will be no new features15:27
ralonsohbut, of course, comments are accepted in the patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/468982/15:28
ralonsohto discuss if it makes sense to revert the patch or to modify the tests in the external project15:28
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ralonsohmlavalle: if you don't mind, please take a look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/468982/15:29
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ralonsohok, that's all the backlog I have15:29
ralonsoh#topic Open Discussion15:29
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ralonsohdo have any open?15:30
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reedip_ralonsoh : I was just thinking , and its just a simple point. do we ever consider MPTCP as a protocol for DCNs in Neutron?15:30
reedip_I havent explored it in Neutron, and was thinking if it can help DCNs ?15:30
ralonsohreedip_: uffff no.15:30
reedip_okk, the uffff means you have had this thought a lot15:31
ralonsohreedip_: do you have any doc to illustrate us?15:31
ralonsohno no the uffff means: if we put this in Neutron, it will explode15:32
davidshaExplosions are nice to watch though...15:32
reedip_ralonsoh : I was looking at XMP protocol ( a white paper ) and it had a mention of MPTCP . More about it here https://www.multipath-tcp.org/15:33
ralonsohreedip_: if you have something like an spec, doc or something else, please share it15:33
reedip_no I dont want the wrath of Neutron Cores on my head !15:33
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ralonsohbtw, ECN?15:34
reedip_It is basically multipath TCP which tries to use multiple paths to a destination  to reduce the overall load and improve the throughput15:34
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reedip_ralonsoh : I was working on the ECN only , it just branched from there15:34
davidshareedip_: Sounds like it could be a candidate for a l3 extension all to itself.15:34
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ralonsohbut this will improve the speed in the host?15:34
ralonsohI don't think so15:34
reedip_ralonsoh : it is useful for bulk data transfer like VM Migration15:34
ralonsohmust MPTCP be supported by TOR?15:35
reedip_or large chunks of data trasnfer15:35
reedip_it is not useful for low -latency transfers which is there for Hadoop , Map-reduce or cassadra15:35
reedip_anyways, just my thought.15:35
reedip_davidsha: let me first get ECN out of the way :) then I will think about MPTCP :P15:36
davidshareedip_: :P15:36
ralonsohreedip_: agree!!15:36
reedip_anyways, I got to go15:36
ralonsohno problem15:36
ralonsohany other open??15:36
davidshareedip_: cya!15:36
reedip_thanks , cya later guys :)15:36
davidshaI'm good.15:36
ralonsohthank you guys!!15:36
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:37
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jun 20 15:37:05 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:37
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_qos/2017/neutron_qos.2017-06-20-15.00.html15:37
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_qos/2017/neutron_qos.2017-06-20-15.00.txt15:37
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_qos/2017/neutron_qos.2017-06-20-15.00.log.html15:37
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lbragstadping ayoung, breton, cmurphy, dstanek, edmondsw, gagehugo, henrynash, hrybacki, knikolla, lamt, lbragstad, lwanderley, notmorgan, rderose, rodrigods, samueldmq, spilla, aselius18:00
lbragstad#startmeeting keystone18:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jun 20 18:00:13 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is lbragstad. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:00
samueldmqhenrynash: o/18:00
lbragstad#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting18:00
lbragstadhenrynash: rderose o/18:00
lbragstadsamueldmq: o/18:00
samueldmqand rderose too18:00
rderosesamueldmq: :)18:00
lbragstadgettin' the band back together ;)18:00
lbragstadalright - i suppose we can go ahead and get started18:02
lbragstad#topic announcements18:02
*** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:02
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lbragstad#info review focus should be on features and efforts that have large patch sets18:03
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lbragstade.g. policy-docs, project tags, api keys, documentation, etc...18:03
lbragstadspeaking of documentation, sjain and samueldmq shared a bunch of what they've accomplished last week18:03
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lbragstadand that's actually one of our topics for today18:04
lbragstad#topic documentation follow-up18:04
*** openstack changes topic to "documentation follow-up (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:04
lbragstadsamueldmq: sjain18:04
sjainso the reorganisation of docs is here, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/475119/18:04
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sjainthanks for your reviews lbragstad18:04
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sjainI'll take those in accounts18:05
lbragstadsjain: anytime - i think those patches look pretty good, thanks for putting them together18:05
sjainthe basic restructuring is done, we need to add some more descriptions in those18:05
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sjainmeanwhile for the theme change, somehow the build failed https://review.openstack.org/#/c/466066/818:06
lbragstadfor those who are unfamiliar with what's going to happen, there is a spec that details the work18:06
sjainI'll look into that18:06
lbragstad#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/472275/18:06
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henrynashyeah, like the new split18:06
lbragstadhenrynash: ++18:06
lbragstadi do too18:06
samueldmqhenrynash: ++ that's pretty awesome, the idea is to separate te docs for the different audiences18:06
lbragstadi think it will give us an opportunity to clean up a lot of things18:07
samueldmqso if you're a dev, all the docs for you will be in a single place, just for you18:07
samueldmqlbragstad: that's my feeling too18:07
rderosesamueldmq: ++18:07
lbragstadi'm not sure if this only applies to me, but i've always struggled with some of the content in our in-tree docs and if it should be in the offical openstack-manuals project18:07
samueldmqlbragstad: yeah there might be some overlap (very likely)18:08
lbragstadi'm hoping that if we pull more of that into our project, we'll have the ability to consolidate and reduce duplication if we notice any18:08
lbragstadwhich is the plan according to the openstack-manuals spec18:08
samueldmqyeah, lot of work going on18:08
sjainYes I have noticed some overlaps, which I will try to account while migrating18:08
samueldmqluckily we have sjain with us :D18:09
sjainhappy to help :)18:09
lbragstadyeah - we shouldn't be afraid to isolate the migration from the refactoring18:09
samueldmqsjain: yeah, take notes, and make fixes after migrating18:09
samueldmqso that we keep the migration clean18:09
samueldmqwhat lbragstad just said18:09
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lbragstadthat should make it easier for others to hop in and help too18:09
lbragstadthen we can start working patches in parallel18:10
sjainyup sure18:10
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lbragstadsjain: from what I can tell, i think the migration looks good18:10
sjainI migrated some docs and submitted the patches, but the docs team is currently working on those18:10
lbragstadsjain: it also looks like the comments holding up the theme switch were addressed in a follow on patch18:10
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sjainyes in this one, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/475119/18:11
lbragstadyep - good deal18:12
sjainThe comments mostly on toctree and sections are addressed with this reorganisation18:12
sjainand overall it looks better18:12
lbragstadjust a word for everyone reviewing those patches, if they are organizing things that fall inline with what we have to do for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/472275/ then we should be sure to use the doc-migration branch18:12
lbragstadthat will make it easier for us to track that work18:13
samueldmqlbragstad: branch -> patch?18:13
lbragstader - topic, yes18:13
lbragstadthanks samueldmq18:13
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samueldmqthere is a bunch of work in the docs migration (as per the cp spec lbragstad linked)18:14
samueldmqso anyone is welcome to help with that too18:14
lbragstad#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/472275/18:14
lbragstad^ we'll need to accomplish the project specific items listed in that spec for Pike18:14
lbragstadin order to be on track with the other projects18:14
lbragstadluckily sjain and samueldmq have given us a good start18:15
samueldmqyep, and we're ahead on the migration, we should be able to be done with it soon18:15
sjainI'm anyways here to work on that :P18:15
samueldmqlbragstad: when is P-3?18:15
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samueldmqor when we'll have the rc's?18:15
lbragstadsjain: samueldmq is there anything else you need from the rest of the team?18:15
lbragstadsamueldmq: let me check18:16
samueldmqthere will be more patches coming along the way18:16
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samueldmqthey'll need love18:16
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lbragstadsamueldmq: end of july18:16
lbragstadjuly 24 - 2818:16
lbragstad#link https://releases.openstack.org/pike/schedule.html18:16
lbragstadalso note that feature proposal freeze is next week18:17
lbragstad#info keystone feature proposal freeze is next week18:17
samueldmqthat's close18:17
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lbragstadwe should be in full on review mode18:17
lbragstadanything else docs-wise?18:18
samueldmqnot from me18:18
sjainnothing more for now18:18
lbragstadgood deal - moving on18:18
lbragstad#topic Office Hours / Bug Days18:18
*** openstack changes topic to "Office Hours / Bug Days (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:18
knikollaWe had bug day/office hours last friday. But nothing got merged because of low core attendance (only lbragstad). It would be nice to have at least 2 cores (3 would be ideal) during these activities so we can review and merge bugfixes.18:19
knikollaTo encourage more core attendance, we can either change the day to something more appropriate, instead of friday.18:19
knikollaAlternatively, if we can’t find a day appropriate for everyone, I can keep track of everyone’s active hours and request reviews from them when they have shown time online.18:19
knikolla</end copy paste>18:19
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lbragstadyeah - i like the idea of changing days18:19
lbragstadwith summer being here - it's hard to have good attendance on Friday's because of vacation and what-not18:20
* hrybacki agrees18:20
lbragstadwhich I find totally acceptable18:20
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lbragstad(not that anyone needs my permission)18:20
lbragstadso - with that18:20
lbragstadanyone have an alternate proposal for a bug day/office hours?18:21
hrybackilbragstad: do we want to dedicate an entire day?18:21
hrybackior would a half-day attract more folks?18:21
lbragstadhrybacki: that's a good question, what do you have in mind?18:21
rderosehow about after this meeting?18:21
hrybackiwe'd need to poll the group but -- Thursday afternoons for example might be easier to fit into a schedule18:22
hrybackior following this meeting per rderose18:22
lbragstadrderose: i was think something similar to that18:22
knikolla++ on poll. we're not having much attendance today to make a decision.18:22
hrybackiknikolla: would you like to make a Doodle poll?18:22
lbragstadrderose: other teams, like nova and openstack-ansible, dedicate 30 minutes to an hour to go through all new bugs and perform bug triage as a group18:22
hrybackilbragstad: I do like the idea of grooming the list and then setting goals to be accomplished by EOD18:23
rderoselbragstad: I see, I like that idea18:23
lbragstadhrybacki: rderose ++18:23
lbragstadi do, too18:23
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lbragstadi think if we want to actually get something done, there is going to have to be some amount of goal setting18:23
hrybackilbragstad: knikolla do we have a 'contributor' list that accurately depicts those that are interested and able to help out?18:23
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knikollahrybacki: stackalytics?18:24
lbragstadwe originally documented that here18:24
lbragstad#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-office-hours18:24
hrybackiknikolla: I'd say our targets are actually a subset of what would be on stackalytics18:24
knikollahrybacki: true, but that list is from october/november i think18:24
lbragstadsome folks are going tohave things pop up on various days that might limit their attendance18:25
knikollathe one on the etherpad lbragstad linked18:25
hrybackilbragstad: of course18:25
hrybackiknikolla: okay so maybe two first steps18:25
hrybacki1) Review list of people to help 2) Send Doodle poll to that group asking when (in general) would work best for them18:25
lbragstadwe could even just send it to the openstack-dev mailing list18:26
hrybackithen we stick to that. Regular time/placed events attract a better following18:26
hrybackilbragstad: we could. Personal emails will probably elicit a better response rate though18:26
lbragstadhrybacki: true18:26
hrybackiI think having a smaller, more committed crew (initially) will have a better pay off in the long run18:27
lbragstadonce we get consensus, we'll need a note sent to the openstack-dev mailing list advertising the changes18:27
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lbragstadanother note about this effort18:27
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lbragstadi think it would be beneficial for all folks planning on attending to come with several bugs in mind18:27
lbragstadhow you go about collecting those is totally up to you18:28
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rderoselbragstad: ++18:28
lbragstadbut we can use our 30 minute meeting to consolidate our lists into what we want to work on18:28
lbragstadand use that to set goals18:28
lbragstadi think that'd be better than having one person dictate what we work on for the day18:29
lbragstadif folks have the same bug on their list, they can break out into a group and blitz that specific set of bugs18:29
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lbragstadso - who's taking point on the Doodle?18:30
lbragstadand sending the email?18:30
knikollalbragstad: i can do that, but i have a flight in a few hours18:31
hrybackiI can construct the Doodle. knikolla lbragstad just give me the date/tiems18:31
lbragstadok - let's do that now18:31
lbragstadif you have a date/time in mind, throw it out18:31
lbragstadrderose: already proposed Tuesday afternoons18:32
hrybackihow long specifically?18:32
lbragstadI don't think I'd go shorter than 3 hours18:32
knikollalbragstad: i have no preferences. i am flexible on how i use my work hours.18:32
hrybackiokay, so maybe Tues, Wed, Thurs evenings18:32
hrybackiand Wed, Thurs mornings18:32
hrybackiso we'll always have had this meeting prior18:33
lbragstadso - nothing on monday or friday18:33
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hrybackiI think those are hard days18:33
lbragstadi would agree18:33
hrybackiMonday folks are catching up, Friday folks are winding down18:33
hrybackiboth have higher probability of folks just being gone18:33
lbragstadhrybacki: so you're going to build a doodle with time slots for those days?18:33
* hrybacki nods18:34
knikollasounds good18:34
hrybackiI'll put a morning and an evening block for each day (less Tuesday)18:34
lbragstaddo we want to have two sessions a week or just one?18:34
hrybackistart simple, grow complexity as it's needed18:34
lbragstade.g. how many votes do folks get?18:34
knikollalbragstad: one for now. after feature freeze we can have two maybe, since that will be the focus.18:35
lbragstadknikolla: ++18:35
lbragstadI'd agree18:35
lbragstadlet's get the format down and start proving that it works18:35
hrybackilbragstad: everyone in attendance gets one vote, cores get tie breaker rights?18:35
lbragstadonly if needed i'd say18:35
* hrybacki agrees18:35
lbragstadbut we do need cores to be there18:35
knikollawith a minumum of two cores18:36
lbragstadi can make any of those times work,18:36
lbragstadis there another core good with those days?18:36
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samueldmqTuesdays morning?18:36
samueldmqoops, it's said (less Tuesday)18:37
lbragstadsamueldmq: yep18:37
hrybackiI'm not opposed to ^^18:37
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samueldmqwell, I will do my best to be present18:37
samueldmqwhen do we start?18:37
hrybackisoon as we have the poll back18:37
knikollasamueldmq: awesome! much appreciated!18:37
samueldmqI wont complain to have things to review18:37
lbragstadif we agree on a day later this week, i would say immediately18:37
samueldmqand fix bugs, and make keystone better :)18:37
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lbragstadknikolla: hrybacki do you want to share the goal you have set? ;)18:38
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samueldmq0-bugs in keystone by end of Queens18:38
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hrybackithat would be phenomenal18:39
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knikollaincluding bug 968696? :P18:39
openstackbug 968696 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) ""admin"-ness not properly scoped" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/96869618:39
* lbragstad hears a rewrite in the making18:39
samueldmqah well, we have that.18:39
hrybackihush now about 'bug-who-shall-not-be-named'18:39
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samueldmqthe thing is, if we work on getting the list of open bugs really small18:40
samueldmqit's just a matter of quickly triaging/attacking new bugs18:40
* hrybacki nods18:40
lbragstadyeah - it's a behavioral thing18:40
samueldmqso we will always keep it small, and easy to keep track of18:40
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hrybacki'It is easier to stay fit than get fit'18:40
samueldmqlbragstad: exactly18:40
lbragstadideally - i think it would be great to get our bug queue down to 75 or less by the time we release Pike18:41
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samueldmqwould be awesome18:41
samueldmq+ much better docs18:41
knikollawith triaging and fixes should be doable18:41
samueldmqwould be a good deal for this cycle18:41
lbragstadknikolla: ++18:41
hrybackithat's a good gaol18:41
lbragstadwe have a lot of work that is long-running, so filling the spaces with consistent and predictable bug work is a good thing to do18:42
lbragstad#action hrybacki to build and send out doodle to collect feedback for new bug day times18:42
lbragstadcool - hrybacki knikolla do either of you have anything else for office hours?18:43
* hrybacki shakes his head18:43
knikollabesides looking forward to it? :P18:44
lbragstadgood answer18:44
lbragstad#topic open discussion18:44
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:44
lbragstadfloor is open18:44
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hrybackiI just want to say that after attending the upstream meetings for a couple months now things feel like they are going in positive direction :) Good job, team!18:44
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lbragstadhrybacki: thanks!18:45
knikollahrybacki: :)18:45
lbragstadalright - well if we don't have anything else to go over, we can get some time back18:46
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lbragstadthanks for coming and look for hrybacki's note!18:46
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"18:46
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jun 20 18:46:31 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:46
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-06-20-18.00.html18:46
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-06-20-18.00.txt18:46
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-06-20-18.00.log.html18:46
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fungicommence infra team muster drill19:00
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* zara_the_lemur__ waves19:00
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fungithis week we have action items assigned to and topics proposed by clarkb, ianw, eumel8, ianychoi and... er... me!19:01
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fungino general topics on the agenda, so i may wrap the meeting early if open discussion is not too heated19:02
fungithere's a tc meeting starting at 20:00 _and_ a board meeting starting at the same time i want to be able to dial into19:03
fungialso i believe we have some people travelling this week who won't be able to attend19:03
fungi#startmeeting infra19:03
openstackMeeting started Tue Jun 20 19:03:48 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:03
fungi#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting19:03
fungi#topic Announcements19:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)"19:04
fungi#info Don't forget to register for the PTG if you're planning to attend!19:04
fungi#link https://www.openstack.org/ptg/ PTG September 11-15 in Denver, CO, USA19:04
fungias always, feel free to hit me up with announcements you want included in future meetings19:04
fungi#topic Actions from last meeting19:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:04
fungi#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-06-13-19.02.html Minutes from last meeting19:04
fungiclarkb finish writing up an upgrade doc for gerrit 2.11 to 2.1319:04
fungi#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/gerrit-2.13.-upgrade-steps upgrade doc for gerrit 2.11 to 2.1319:04
fungistill available to work on testing that on review-dev in a couple hours?19:04
fungii'll be around to help however you need19:04
fungithough i may still be dialled into the board meeting and listening at the same time, depending on how long that ends up running19:05
clarkbif others are able to give that a look over in the next few hours that would be nice19:05
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fungiwe can also talk through it during open discussion if we want19:05
fungifungi start an infra ml thread about puppet 4, beaker jobs and the future of infra configuration management19:05
fungi#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2017-June/005454.html Puppet 4, beaker jobs and the future of our config management19:05
fungisorry that took a couple weeks, but everyone interested please follow up there19:05
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fungi#action ianw abandon pholio spec and shut down pholio.openstack.org server19:06
fungi(carrying that over so we don't forget)19:06
ianwnot yet, sorry ... gate issues have had my attention19:06
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fungiperfectly fine!19:06
fungiit's not a hurry, just cleanup19:06
fungi#topic Specs approval: PROPOSED PTG Bot (fungi)19:06
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval: PROPOSED PTG Bot (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:06
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/473582 "PTG Bot" spec proposal19:06
fungi#info Council voting is open for the "PTG Bot" spec proposal until 19:00 UTC on Thursday, June 22.19:06
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fungijust a reminder, i gave that one the extra week since i only proposed it just before the meeting last week19:07
fungii also have some initial changes proposed under that review topic i'll un-wip after it gets approved19:07
fungi#topic Specs approval: PROPOSED Provide a translation check site for translators (eumel8, ianychoi, fungi)19:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval: PROPOSED Provide a translation check site for translators (eumel8, ianychoi, fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:07
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/440825 "Provide a translation check site for translators" spec proposal19:07
fungii added this following conversation with ianychoi during the open discussion period in last week's meeting19:07
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fungiit seems to be ready enough for a vote; it's mainly just a change of direction on an already approved spec which ended up being untenable19:08
fungiany objections for putting it up for council vote until thursday?19:08
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AJaegerno objection by me19:09
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fungi#info Council voting is open for the "Provide a translation check site for translators" spec proposal until 19:00 UTC on Thursday, June 22.19:10
fungi#topic Priority Efforts19:10
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Meeting topic: infra)"19:10
fungiclarkb: any interest in talking more about the gerrit upgrade plan during the meeting?19:11
fungi#topic Priority Efforts: Gerrit 2.13 Upgrade19:11
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts: Gerrit 2.13 Upgrade (Meeting topic: infra)"19:11
fungiworth noting, this is a version skip. always fun19:11
clarkbI've got the rough plan sketched out in that etherpad for upgrading review-dev to 2.13.7.ourlocalbuild19:11
clarkbyes because it is a version skip we cannot do online reindexing after upgrade, we have to do a full offline reindex before starting the service19:12
fungiand per an earlier meeting, we're choosing to roll forward with 2.13.x instead of 2.14.x for now19:12
clarkbso fungi and I will walk through that on review-dev in order to watch the reindex process19:12
fungitimeframe for offline reindexing in 2.10 and online in 2.11 suggests we should budget at least 4 hours of downtmie19:12
clarkbonce that is done we will want to test services and scripts against 2.13. Particularly zuul as there may be new event types that we don't handle or otherwise want to handle btetter19:13
fungi(4 hours of downtime for the production review.o.o reindex i mean)19:13
clarkbya don't expect review-dev to take that long19:13
fungireview-dev will likely be far faster19:13
mordredfungi: I know we discussed not-14 before - but I think I thought that was partially because going to 2.14 was going to be significantly more expensive ...19:13
clarkbas reindexing is on a thread per repo basis19:13
clarkbmordred: it would require java 8 which requires xenial (or at least not trusty)19:14
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mordredfungi: if we're going to have to do an offline reindex in this case, is it work reconsidering that?19:14
fungimordred: yes, some much more significant changes in 2.14 which we didn't want to complicate the current progress with19:14
mordredclarkb: nod19:14
mordredkk. just making sure19:14
clarkbmordred: if we then go from 2.13. to 2.14 we should be able to do online reindex as part of that upgrade19:14
fungiand also because we already missed the boat on the 2.12 upgrade by deciding to refocus on 2.1319:14
clarkbmordred: I think it is a good idea to separate the distro upgrade from the 2.14 upgrade as a result19:14
mordredclarkb: ah - ok . so this should be the last offline reindex we need to eat19:14
mordredclarkb: ++19:15
clarkbmordred: hopefully19:15
mordreddefinitely agree19:15
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fungiso given how long it takes us to prepare for gerrit upgrades compared to their frequency of major releases, if we keep revising our plan to be whatever the latest major release is we may never upgrade19:15
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fungiand since we already have a lot of progress and 2.13 acceptance testing behind us, i'd rather not lose that momentum19:16
clarkbI also think that 2.13 has had a chance to mature (7 point releases) whereas 2.14 not so much yet19:16
fungialso there are a number of useful things we can do with 2.13 (and could have done with 2.12) that make the upgrade worthwhile even if it means we immediately begin planning for the next upgrade19:16
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clarkbso ya hopefully after today we can start poking at testing with zuul against review-dev and our hook scripts and the election roll geneartion and all that19:17
fungilike, enabling individual teams or the stable team to take care of the eol process, or simplifying the release automation19:17
clarkbthen maybe in a week or two we can schedule an upgrade in production19:17
clarkb(trouble is we are getting to the fun aprt of the release cycle)19:18
fungii don't mind if we get the upgrade details worked out and then have to put it on ice until a lull in release activity, even if that means between the ptg and summit19:19
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clarkbyup especially because momentum on process is here now19:19
clarkbjust somethign to be aware of as we get closer to being ready to upgrade production19:19
fungi#link https://releases.openstack.org/pike/schedule.html Pike Release Schedule19:20
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fungi_if_ we can swing it this cycle, it'll probably be in the next ~3 weeks19:20
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clarkbwhich is theoretically doable if we can get people testing it out on review-dev and making whatever changes we need to address bugs19:21
fungigiven what we don't yet know and may uncover while running through this, i'm hesitant to commit to being able to upgrade before we get into the library final release window and things start picking up19:22
fungiso while it would be nice if it works out, i'm not going to get my hopes up19:23
fungibasically we'd need the details ironed out in the next 2 weeks and then a maintenance announcement with a week of advance warning since the outage (for the entire ci system) will be pretty lengthy19:24
clarkbI think better to not kill ourselves with that effort19:24
clarkband instead be thorough19:24
fungianyway, let's see what we figure out this week and i'll make sure we touch on the updates status in next week's meeting too at which point we may have a better idea as to how feasible it is19:24
fungier, updated status19:25
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clarkbsoudns good19:26
fungihaving read through the etherpad, i'm wondering whether we need to disable puppet for gerrit?19:27
fungi(and disable puppet globally when we do teh real maintenance)19:27
clarkbfungi: my concern there is that puppet could update the war under us while we are in progress19:27
clarkbso basiclly we want to deactivate puppe ttehre until we get the change merged to reflect the right war19:27
fungino, that's what i meant, but i missed that you already have it as the first step there19:28
clarkbI don't think I have the step of merge change to reflect war though19:28
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fungigood point, and that probably has to be done after disabling puppet but certainly before stopping any of the other services19:28
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clarkbwell before starting pupept again at least19:31
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fungioh, sure, can be done at either end19:31
fungiafter makes the most sense i guess, since it's less to revert if we need to roll back19:32
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fungiour gerrit fork's tags are lagging behind too...19:33
fungi#link https://gerrit.googlesource.com/gerrit/+/v2.13.8 Gerrit 2.13.8 stable point release from April 26, 201719:34
fungimight make sense to confirm that still builds for us when we get time19:34
clarkboh hrm do we want to push the upgrade a day and get ^ built19:34
clarkbI thought I double checked for tags and 2.13.7 was latest19:35
fungii'm fine doing it that way too. i have even more time tomorrow to help (fewer meetings)19:35
clarkbI'm trying to get a changelog to see what 2.13.8 adds19:36
fungii think we need to rebase all our tags onto that if we do19:36
fungier, s/tags/backports/19:36
clarkbyes we'll need to rebase and merge the ~4 changes19:36
clarkb2.13.8 includes jgit and performance fixes19:37
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clarkbmy hunch is we probably do want those?19:37
fungithere are a few additional patches in the stable branch on top of that tag too19:37
fungi#link https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/gerrit/log/?h=upstream/stable-2.13 our fork of Gerrit stable-2.1319:38
fungiincluding some which look like bug fixes19:38
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fungimost recent is 2 days old19:38
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clarkbone thing is that if we have to delay for prod upgrade we may end up doing a point release upgrade on review-dev anyways just to get latest?19:39
fungiright, i would be cool doing one last minor update on review-dev before the production maintenance just to vet the latest stable state19:40
clarkbperhaps we should just bake that into our thinking for this upgrade process. Go to 2.13.7 now, start testing stuff like zuul against. Then do upgrade to 2.13.8/9/whatever closer to production upgrade then do 2.13.8/9/whatever in production19:40
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fungisure, sgtm19:40
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clarkbI actually like that as I think the jump to 2.13 and testing that is the biggest concern right now19:41
clarkbthen it will be easy to add on a different point release in the future.19:41
fungiupstream/stable-2.13 branch tip maybe19:41
fungisince they seem to apply fixes there far more often than they tag19:41
clarkbin that case lets stick with the original plan for review-dev for now19:42
clarkbthat gets us moving on the testing front19:42
clarkbthen we can incorporate a minor bump down the line when things are more firmed up for production19:42
fungi#agreed proceed with testing gerrit-v2. today, update to upstream/stable-2.13 branch tip and briefly re-test shortly before production upgrade maintenance19:42
fungi#topic Open discussion19:43
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)"19:43
clarkbDNS is really hurting us in osic.19:43
fungiwe've still got about 15 minutes before the tc and board meetings start if anyone has anything else to bring up19:43
clarkb(message:"failed: Temporary failure in name resolution." OR message:"Temporary failure resolving" OR message:"wget: unable to resolve" OR  message:"Could not resolve host") AND NOT message:"Could not resolve host: fake" AND tags:"console" is my logstash query19:43
fungiand yeah, sad dns19:43
clarkbI think that the problem is unbound's list of forwarders don't have priority/order so we are using ipv4 and ipv6 resolvers in osic19:44
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clarkbto hit ipv4 resolvers we have to go through PAT/NAT which I think is likely the cause of our troubles19:44
fungidid you consider my suggestion to have a udev rule rejigger unbound as soon as you get a v6 default route?19:44
clarkbI haven't yet19:45
* fungi has no idea how terrible that might be19:45
clarkbunbound-control does allow you to configure those things on the fly19:45
clarkbso we could have it remove resolvers from the existing list based on ipv6 coming up19:45
ianwoh, there is a period of no dns if you start all v6?19:45
fungigiven the async nature of boot in general and v6 autoconfig in particular, i think triggering reconfiguraion off kernel events is about teh fastest solution you're going to get there19:46
clarkbianw: more backrgound on that is my systemd unit file hack doesn't work because network-online comes up before we have working ipv6 because ipv4 is up19:46
clarkbianw: so my check of "do we have ipv6" isn't working right19:46
ianwahh, ok ... that makes sense, i guess :/19:47
clarkband we can't stop ipv4ing because github and gems and other things19:47
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clarkbanother option is to set it in a nodepool ready script based on whether or not ipv6 is present at that point (it should be because nodepool will prefer ipv6)19:47
ianwahh ... hence the discussions with mordred i'm guessing19:48
clarkbfungi: I think I have a preference for ^ because it is simple and straightforward19:48
clarkbfungi: though udev is likely workable as well19:48
mordredyah - I think doing it in a nodepool ready script is a great idea19:48
fungiudev addresses your concern of "how do you do this without a ready script and without zuul"19:48
mordredmost of the other discussion is more for "how do we do this action in v3" - I think we've got great information at ready-script/pre-playbook time to do this well19:49
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* ianw has no strong opinions, but is glad for such tenacity from clarkb investigating it!19:51
clarkbI'll push up an update to ready script it as that is quick and easy19:52
clarkbwell needs new images I guess19:52
clarkbbut otherwise is quick and easy :)19:52
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fungiokay, i'm ending the meeting 5 minutes early to give anyone who wants to time to dial into the board of directors conference call and/or grab popcorn before the tc meeting in here on queens goals refinement19:54
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mordredfungi: I'm landing ... which is going to make my participatoin in the TC meeting a bit difficult19:54
AJaeger5 mins is not enough to get popcorn ;/19:54
fungithanks everyone!19:55
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:55
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jun 20 19:55:26 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:55
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-06-20-19.03.html19:55
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fungireminder, tc meeting on queens goals begins here in 4 minutes19:56
mordredfungi: I have not yet been ableto address the review comments on my goals - but am still interested in pursuing them and hope folks can assume the wording review things can be fixed19:56
* mordred will also try to find wifi in the airport between flights- jbut just in case19:56
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* fungi peers around for tc members20:00
thingeehey everyone20:00
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* ttx just back from his RL meeting20:00
thingeewe have a ttx20:00
thingeettx: agenda has links to proposals20:00
ttxwe do! Who is around?20:01
fungijust a heads up, there's also a board of directors conference call happening concurrent with this (i'm dialled in listening to that too)20:01
sdaguethingee: can you put the link back in here?20:01
ttx#startmeeting tc20:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Jun 20 20:01:42 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"20:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'20:01
ttxLet's start the recording20:01
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee#Agenda20:02
* dtroyer is alive20:02
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fungimordred indicated moments ago that his current flight is landing, but that he might be able to find wifi in the airport to talk about his goals partway into the meeting if all goes well20:02
ttxThat makes 6 of us20:02
ttx#topic Review proposed Pike goals and come up with a proposed selection20:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Review proposed Pike goals and come up with a proposed selection (Meeting topic: tc)"20:02
ttxBasically Gerrit is a horrible way to select n out of m20:03
ttxWe already have one goal selected/approved (split-tempest-plugins)20:03
fungiclearly we should be doing condorcet20:03
ttxfungi: it's not a lot better, apples to oranges20:03
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ttxI'm not sure how to address this, maybe we should give a personal view and see if there is convergence20:04
ttxI can start20:04
sdagueyeh, it's more about conversation20:04
ttxThe "continuing Py35 support" sounds a bit like we failed to reach the objectives and push it back to the next cycle20:05
fungias i don't have a dog in most of those fights, i'm relying on this conversation to try and help me make up my mind ;)20:05
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thingeettx: I thought we did well for unit tests. we're now continuing on with functional20:05
thingeewas functional part of the previous goal release?20:05
ttxthingee: except the goal was to get functional test20:06
ttxnot unit test20:06
thingeeah k20:06
fungiwe're probably failing to capture there the bite-size chunks of progress slotted into each release cycle?20:06
ttxso rather than admit defeat today I would rather reflect at the end of Pike20:06
sdaguefungi: yeh, python 3.5 ends up being big20:06
dhellmannwell, it sounds like maybe some teams went off in a slightly wrong direction20:06
ttxI think interop and python 3.5 are priorities20:06
thingeettx: agreed. We'll do that in the feedback like EmilienM has done20:06
fungiso pike goal was really py3k integration testing, queens goal is py3k unit testing?20:06
ttxSo I'd like us to do at least the collections link20:07
thingeefeedback thread*20:07
sdaguedhellmann: interesting... is there data there?20:07
dhellmannfungi : unit testing was a "you may also want to do" thing for pike, but not specified for a future cycle20:07
sdaguedhellmann: I guess I didn't realize that was the the case20:07
ttxand if we do touch tempest-plugins anyway, why not do full-discovery20:07
dhellmannsdague : well, apparently some of them are working on unit tests instead of functional tests?20:07
dhellmannthough tbh, I haven't had time to review the progress recently, so that could be wrong20:07
dtroyerI agree on interop, I am wondering if new attention of this sort might be helpful in raising awareness across the community on the paste and policy situations?20:08
ttxMy personal pick would be to only do 2: split-tempest-plugin and full-discovery20:08
dtroyerthere is no doubt the py25 work needs to continue though20:08
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dhellmanndo we have a sense yet of how many teams are likely to need to continue working on the py35 stuff?20:08
sdaguettx: the full-discovery actually feels vague to me20:08
ttx+ look at the py35 gap at the end of Pike and see what we can do to help (R goal, or ad-hoc targets)20:09
sdagueso, the thing I like about the policy in code proposal is that 2 teams have done it already, nova and keystone20:09
ttxsdague: It feels vague to me too...20:09
fungiopenstack got a mention on the debian-python ml today in relation to filing bugs to track missing python3 support20:09
* EmilienM late but here20:09
sdagueso there is demonstration of what complete looks like20:09
dhellmannI would rather say that py35 is just carried over and folks should keep working on it, if it's not finished this cycle. why wait for r?20:09
sdagueand what the transition plan looks like20:09
dtroyerdhellmann: ++20:09
ttxsdague: it just indicates that the work would happen in the tempest plugin, and since we force teams to look into those already (with split-tempest-plugin goal)...20:09
sdagueI feel like the collection links & discovery are actually vague20:09
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sdaguethey don't demostrate having done it for any project yet20:10
sdagueespecially when there are concerns around microversioning the root document20:10
sdaguewhich is non addressed20:10
ttxdhellmann: I meant "wait for R if we need to do another goal to complete it20:10
sdagueI feel like goals are useful when it's already been done on N > 1 projects20:11
EmilienMsdague: +120:11
dhellmannttx: ok. we need to be careful about that messaging, so that teams don't stop during queens20:11
ttxsdague: let's see if mordred is still around to clarify it20:11
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dhellmannsdague : yeah, we did say that relatively early on20:11
dhellmannwe need examples, to prove out the idea20:11
EmilienMsdague: at least it helps to get directions and feedback (how it worked and how we can do better for other projects)20:11
dhellmanngiven that, do any of the other proposed goals have >1 example?20:12
ttxdhellmann: I would wait until end of Pike, then talk to teams who missed the mark and help them to get their stuff done ASAP20:12
dhellmannttx: ++20:12
sdaguedhellmann: policy in code20:12
fungiif mordred does manage to pop in, it'll probably be in the second half of the hour i'm guessing20:12
dhellmannsdague : I know nova did that, who else did?20:12
dhellmannok, cool20:12
ttxdhellmann: I just fear making it a Queens goal would be seen as a license to procrastinate20:12
ttxespecially if voted on now20:12
dhellmannttx: sure, makes sense20:13
sdagueso, honestly, the python 3.5 work probably needs a different mechanism than decentralized team goals20:13
dhellmannsimilarly, saying 'we will revisit this for r'20:13
ttxAnyone wants to make a case for migrate-off-paste or moving policy in code ?20:13
ttxI felt like the policy goal was a bit heavy20:13
sdagueit really needs project management, and harassing20:13
fungimight be reasonable to consider the pike py3k goal basically met (there are some notable services who couldn't get integration testing working yet, but on the whole most did)20:13
ttxsdague: we used to have a team20:13
sdaguettx: well, I'm arguing for policy in code, because 2 teams already did that20:13
sdaguein single cycles20:14
sdaguemigrate-off-paste has the problem of not being proven yet20:14
ttxsdague: so you would suggest: policy-in-code and split-tempest-plugins ?20:14
sdaguettx: yes20:14
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ttxyeah, migrate-off-paste seems a bit early20:14
fungistarting to wonder whether, for these goals which touch almost every project, whether we should consider "mostly done" to be good enough20:14
sdaguefungi: it depends on if mostly done is good enough20:14
dhellmanndo we want to address the questions about what goes in tempest directly vs. what goes into a plugin as part of that goal?20:15
sdaguewith python 3.5... I'm not convinced that mostly done is20:15
EmilienMttx: +1 on the 2 proposals20:15
ttxEmilienM: which ?20:15
EmilienMttx: policy-in-code and split-tempest-plugins goals20:15
dtroyermostly done might be good enough to carry the goal into the next cycle to complete it, but not to give the impression to stop working on it20:15
fungiif "most" projects met the goal, then the goal has fallen in scope to no longer being broadly cross-project after that20:16
ttxEmilienM: I fear that's a step up compared to Pike in terms of work needed, but otherwise agree they make good goals20:16
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dhellmannwe still have some teams that haven't even responded to the py3 goal :-(20:16
EmilienMttx: some projects already have met one of them (or both) - so we could at least start iterations for the projects who don't20:17
dtroyerdo we know which projects have the heavy work yet to do for policy? or is it "all services not named keystone or nova"?20:17
fungiso taking the py3k example, the remaining projects who are now the only ones not tested running under python3.5 have an additional incentive to finish that work (they don't want to be seen as the only ones left behind)20:17
smcginnisI wonder if for these goals wet should identify a "team" that is willing to do the work for these projects that can't themselves.20:17
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ttxsmcginnis, dhellmann: yes, was wondering if we should not take another approach20:17
ttxlike form a pop-up release goal team20:18
dhellmannwe tried it that way and teams pushed back on taking the patches.20:18
ttxthat would actively push to get it done20:18
sdaguesmcginnis: so, honestly, is it that we need a team, or we need more active project management?20:18
smcginnisI think both.20:18
ttxdhellmann: they would still be "goals" and supposed to be prioritized in reviews20:18
sdaguebecause honestly, bugging folks publicly on the request id thing (which is *much smaller* I realize) was really what got things moving20:18
EmilienMyeah both20:18
ttxsdague: yeah, that's what I'm coming to20:19
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EmilienMwe need to work with ptls so they know what the community expects20:19
rockygsdague, ++ and good job20:19
* dhellmann doesn't have the time or energy to do that this cycle20:19
EmilienMwhich is I think one of the good aspects of having goals: exposing what we want to do as a community20:19
ttxJust throwing goals at projects is not getting the optimal results20:19
sdaguettx: right, the goals definitely need active project management I think to be successful.20:20
ttxI still think we should bless release goals, so that teams know what's coming their way20:20
EmilienMmaybe we could do the other way around and let PTLs vote on the goals?20:20
ttxsdague: I fear they also need people to help write patches20:20
sdaguettx: maybe, and that might be fine20:20
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fungithe ptls who don't bother to vote on goals will likely also be the ones who ignore or resist attempts to implement them as well20:20
fungibut i guess it's worth a try20:21
ttxfrankly I'm surprised that even for simple goals ans answers we seem to be struggling20:21
EmilienMI don't thikn we can reach 100% of projects, I agree20:21
sdaguettx: it's about things falling through cracks20:21
EmilienMbut we we work with those who contributed already20:21
EmilienMs/we we/if we/20:21
sdaguethere is so much inbound being asked of teams, if someone's not helping paint picture of the next thing that is needed, no one knows to prioritize that review20:21
EmilienMmaybe we can engage them more in this process (also they know better if the team has bandwith to work on it or not)20:22
dhellmannisn't that what we expect PTLs to do?20:22
sdaguewe expect ptls to do a lot20:22
dhellmannincluding delegate20:22
sdagueyeh, well, not everyone is perfect20:22
ttxsdague: It's also easier to say "driving a goal is a meaningful contribution", than to say "every project must find a volunteer to cover that area this cycle"20:23
EmilienMwe could think of having a Goal Liaison per project20:23
sdaguettx: that could be20:23
EmilienMand having a sub-team at TC making the connections and helping the liaisons20:23
ttxEmilienM: I fear that won't scale to smalkler teams20:23
dhellmannif people are being asked to do too much, I agree something needs to give. I just don't think it's the stuff that we claim is important to the whole community.20:23
fungigoal liaisons will also likely emerge organically if they're needed. the ptl is the goal liaison by default, and if they need to do so they should delegate that responsibility20:23
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fungimaybe _tracking_ who they are per team is helpful, i don't know20:24
ttxDriving a goal across ~40 projects is a very significant task though, so not sure inverting the model will be a lot more successful20:24
sdagueso, I think if someone is tracking and reporting on the weekly (bi-weekly) progress of a goal it becomes more clear where things are getting lost. Without that highlighting it's tough. And it's also tough for new folks to know where they could help.20:25
sdaguebecause without that the only people that know what needs to be done are the people that are probably the busiest ones on the teams20:25
ttxSeriously, we can't get anyone to update the goal status once, I'm not sure asking for biweekly reports would work a lot better20:25
sdaguettx: it is different20:26
dhellmannttx: thought sdague was proposing that 1 volunteer would track that info20:26
thingeecan't remember now, but did we get ack's from the ptls that we're being defaulted to owning the goal?20:26
sdaguedhellmann: ++20:26
ttxah, ok20:26
sdaguethat's why it's different20:26
ttxso one champion20:26
ttx(or a set, I don't think it needs to be exclusive20:26
fungithingee: do you mean before we approve them, or after?20:26
dhellmannunfortunately, with the python 3 work, the main person who was driving the work before has gotten fed up with it and the TC sponsor (me) is embroiled in the dissolution of the docs team20:27
thingeefungi: after20:27
sdaguewhich also gives the global view of what the most important next thing is20:27
dhellmannso, ENOTIME20:27
ttxdhellmann: which is arguably sort of a goal20:27
fungithingee: yes, every project has to update the goal with their scope details20:27
ttxdhellmann: (the docs dissolution)20:27
fungiafter it merges20:27
dhellmannttx: yeah, I didn't file the paperwork because it seemed like more of an emergency than goal20:27
sdagueright, and I think also points out that there can be really important things to be done that aren't goals20:28
ttxSo, should we go back to the drawing table and ask on each of those proposal if there is one or more champions to actively project-manage it ?20:28
ttxI'm pretty sure that would clear a few20:28
thingeeI agree with sdague that we need someone coordinating with the projects on the goals.20:28
fungibeyond just having a tc sponsor i guess20:29
ttxfwiw the release team has been trying to ask for replies by the deadline, but that's about as far as we went20:29
sdaguettx: yeh, that would be good next step20:29
ttxsdague: should we ask one for the already-approved goal as well, and demote it if there isn't anyone ?20:30
sdaguettx: yeh, that seems fair if we're asking for it20:30
dhellmannthat seems fair20:30
dtroyergiven the conversation around that goal, yes20:30
thingeeif there isn't anyone, there's no sense in beating around the bush on keeping the goal. just log where we left off20:30
sdaguethingee: ++20:30
ttxsdague: would you say the main issue with getting that kind of stuff done is... writing the patch, or getting eyes/priorities on the resulting reviews ?20:31
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fungiyes, the approved goal needs a project management volunteer, i think20:31
fungi(though i suspect that won't be too hard to confirm in that one case)20:31
EmilienMwhat would be the expectation from the volunteer?20:31
sdaguettx: my experience is that most efforts touching > 1 project are lacking more on the project management side (meaning highlighting reviews and finding reviewers) than on the development side20:31
ttx#info Ask for one (or more!) champions for each goal, who would project-manage it to completion (and help/mentor people to do it)20:32
sdagueand that you can speed up an effort by 2 - 3x by active project management20:32
ttxsdague: certainly.20:32
EmilienMI would be happy to help here if we set expectations20:32
fungiEmilienM: probably periodic communication to the community at large about the overall status (and checking in with some teams if needed to determine that status in some cases)20:32
ttxI feel like the champion approach is an incremental improvement, easy to set in place for Q20:33
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EmilienMit's worth trying and we can see how it works - I volunteer to champion 1 or 2 goals for Queens20:33
ttxsdague: would we stop asking each project to submit their status snippet, and use some wiki page / etherpad / ethercalc updated by the champion ?20:33
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fungimight make sense not to get too into the weeds on exact expectations for a goals champion until we see what works there20:33
EmilienMmaybe we can take the opportunity to document what we're doing20:34
EmilienMfungi: fair enough20:34
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sdaguettx: yeh I think so20:34
dhellmannso we no longer want any acknowledgement from teams that they even see the goals?20:34
ttx(I like that it feels a bit less like throwing work at teams, since someone has to care enough to drive it)20:34
sdagueit would also make the consolidated information be of the same quality between projects20:34
dhellmannit's going to be left up to 1 person to drive all of that?20:34
fungii would worry that if we insist on bi-weekly status update e-mails to the dev ml, for example, that could be putting the cart before the horse20:34
ttxdhellmann: I think we still want PTLs to discuss the goals20:34
dtroyerI think we still want the ptl ACK, they need to be aware of what is going on around their projects20:35
EmilienMthe goal champion would check with PTL goals status, collect and share blockers with the community20:35
ttxbut the "goals response" process was less than a success this time around20:35
EmilienMmaybe 2 goals are too much also20:35
ttxdhellmann: I felt like the reason people wouldn't submit them was more due to process friction than laziness or ignorance20:36
dhellmannI'm disappointed that the only way we can get people to collaborate on these things is to hound them.20:36
thingeeif majority of projects did py3 unit tests versus functional tests, was there somehow miscommunication?20:36
EmilienMfor the projects who haven't met the 2 goals, and haven't enough people, 2 is really too much imho20:36
dhellmannttx: I only heard 1 person say there was any friction in the process. Did you hear that from others?20:36
EmilienMdhellmann: tbh, it's a bit the same in some projects (when being PTL)20:36
EmilienMdhellmann: (personal experience :-))20:36
ttxdhellmann: I know of several who are TC members and didn't submit their goal response, we could ask them20:37
* dhellmann looks at smcginnis 20:37
ttxMy understanding is that iut's somethign you always set to prio 220:37
ttxI'll submit that tomorrow20:37
ttxheck, even the release management response was not immediate :)20:38
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dhellmannyeah, that guy was new ;-)20:38
fungii took embarrassingly too long to update infra's no-op entries on this cycles goals, but i did also reply to the ml thread explaining (certainly not making excuses for) my error :/20:38
ttxdhellmann: but it's a fair point. I'd like people to know what they have to do without having to hound them20:39
EmilienMttx: anyway. If we're looking for someone to project-manage one or 2 goals, I do volunteer to help20:39
ttxbut I'm not sure a governance patch is the most frfictionless way to communicate that20:39
ttxEmilienM: you mean, whatever the goal ?20:39
ttxThe champion of champions :)20:40
dhellmannok. let's find a better tool for having that conversation then, but I still think it's important for it to be a conversation20:40
mriedemhonestly i need to be hounded20:40
mriedemwith all of the stuff that's coming out of the TC lately, i lose track and start to go deaf to it20:41
mriedemand get the impression things are happening in a vacuum, which i know they aren't - they are being communicated in the ML, i'm just not reading everything in the ML anymore b/c i can't20:41
mriedemanyway, feel free to hound me at least20:42
sdagueright, stop thinking about it as hounding, but as "there are a lot of demands on folks, I am here to make it easy on you and say this is the specific things I need from you this milestone"20:42
mriedemright, e.g. i needed sdague asking me to review global request id patches20:42
mriedemto keep those moving20:42
ttxOK, time check... Let me summarize a few findings so far20:42
sdagueand knowing that the person with that ask has filtered out the noise so that it is really important20:42
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ttx#info Goals need champions to project-manage them to completion20:42
dtroyerso maybe one of the things we should be asking sponsor companies for are actual PMs as contributors and not forcing dev-types to do all of those things?20:43
* mordred waves20:43
ttx#info We'll ask for champions on proposed (and the already accepted) goal20:43
EmilienMdtroyer: interesting approach20:43
ttx#info Migrate off paste might be a bit early, a success story in one project is probably needed first20:43
mriedemplacement isn't using paste.ini i don't think...20:44
ttx#info Python 3.5 should go to completion in Pike rather than being "extended" now to Queens20:44
fungii'd be hesitant to ask for traditional "project managers" as we're likely to end up with people who don't know much about the community or how we operate flung into this, and nobody listening to them because nobody knows them20:44
dhellmanndtroyer : I am no longer of the mind that we want to rely on companies to provide any resources other than devs. We build up processes around them, and then they disappear.20:44
ttx#info Full-discovery sounds vague to a few20:44
ttx#info Policy into code & Split tempest plugins seem to general have support20:45
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ttx#info Only 2 goals for Queens is probably a reasonable target20:45
ttxIs that a good summary so far ?20:45
thingeettx: I'll provide a follow up email to the list20:45
fungithis has been really helpful for me, thanks!20:45
EmilienMdo we have examples of PMs involved (really) in OpenStack community20:45
dtroyerit's the particular set of skills that I think we are looking for, the alternative is for the foundation to hire them?20:45
EmilienMttx: yes, lgtm20:45
ttxEmilienM: I would consider myself a PM20:45
dtroyersolution: clone ttx20:46
fungiEmilienM: that's part of the problem. the "traditional" project managers have mostly ended up in board working groups and then get frustrated at their inability to make traction herding development cats20:46
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ttxI feel like the work that sdague and dhellmann have done on some inter-project work is very close to PMing a goal20:46
ttx(also others)20:46
thingeeEmilienM, dtroyer : I have my PMP cert from way back when20:47
EmilienMthingee: you lucky :D20:47
fungiyeah, "project managers" who have emerged from within our contributor community have been far more effective than those injected from outside20:47
ttxmordred: so you want to address the "vagueness" in the discovery stuff ?20:47
mordreda large portion of it seems to be the combination of detailing steps, following up on them, being able to explain "why" on each step and driving for buy in as you do it20:47
ttxAlso, would you be its champion (and actually have time for it in Q ?)20:47
thingeeEmilienM: dark times :)20:47
thingeelearned a lot20:47
dtroyerI'm not knocking anyones work here, trying to highlight that dev skills and PM skills are different and only a few of us have good polished sets of both20:48
ttx80% of PMing in OpenStack is beating the drum20:48
dhellmanndtroyer : that's fair. I just don't think "find more new people" is very realistic right now.20:48
sdagueright, to be clear I'm talking about "project management" as a valuable task, which is different than project managers a roles20:48
mordredttx: yes, I would be its champion. I mean, I'm going to be working on that topic regardless20:48
fungiagreed, my answer was more to dtroyer's earlier suggestion of asking member companies to provide us with some project managers20:49
thingeemaybe instead of saying project manager we keep going with champion or drum beater20:49
mordredthingee: ++20:49
dhellmanndtroyer : I would rather find some existing contributors who want to expand and take on a new challenge, I guess. Someone who already has some cred.20:49
fungithingee: dj!20:49
ttxmordred: The only difference is that by making it a goal, we make sure it's prioritized up for acceptance in every team20:49
thingeeOpenStack champion no pmp or agile required20:50
dtroyerdhellmann: sure… the trick is (after watching how this works from the other side for two years now) is that isn't how resources are allocated in a lot of companies20:50
mordredttx: yup. although it's honestly very little work per-project, so even if it's not a goal I doubt I'll be completely dead in the water or anything20:50
ttxsdague: did you want to ask mordred for clarification on discovery goal vagueness ?20:50
dhellmanndtroyer : and after watching all of the writers leave, I'm not sure relying on finding a bunch of new specialists is either :-/20:50
ttxthingee: do you have everything you need for the next step ?20:51
dhellmanndtroyer : I mean, go for it, if you think there are people out there who'd be interested. I'm skeptical, but don't mind me. I'm also cranky today.20:51
sdaguettx: ah yeh20:51
thingeeyes. I would like to understand more about the champion thing so it can be communicated on the list20:51
thingeettx: ^20:52
thingeeor I can leave that out for now20:52
sdaguemordred: I didn't see anything in there about the microversioning strategy for changing these root docs which impacts some projects20:52
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rockygpart of dtroyer, dhellmann the problem is as openstack gains adoption, contributing companies see less of a need to drive strategy, just keep cutsomers happy.  much more tactical20:52
ttxthingee: I see the champion as the person who will push to get the goal completed, by providing help, keeping track of status, sometimes helping with the patches.20:53
ttxCurrently we drop a goal and then pick it up at the end of the cycle and realize it's not done yet20:53
mordredsdague: fair question. the answer to that is that the contents of the links list is completely undefined other than "will have self link" - so the answer is "it's not" - and the consume side is "if there is a collections link, this is what it means"20:53
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thingeethe champion should have some trust with core project reviewers as have seen the implementation of the goal too20:53
ttxAnd the scoreboard on the goal doc is not really enough to figure out the state, tbh20:54
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thingeerethink how we track goal progress20:54
thingeeat a glance20:54
sdaguemordred: I'm not sure I quite accept that in our current thinking on versioning. The contract has been any add or change requires versioning. I feel like there needs to be a story there before committing to it20:54
thingeettx: thank you. I'm good20:54
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ttxthingee: I'm happy to review email drafts if you want me to20:55
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mordredsdague: ok. I'll write something on that topic. also, if it's not there, I've alreayd implemented "just pop crap off the url" for keystoneauth and have written it up for other api consumers too...20:56
mordredso if that's just the api people do, shrug. it'll be better than that behavior being hard-coded and not documented at least20:57
ttxalright, any other question / discussion on this topic ?20:57
ttxwe have 3min left if needed20:57
thingeettx: thanks20:58
ttxWe did not exactly made progress in the direction I expected, but it's still progress20:58
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ttxI typo more at 11pm for some reason20:58
fungii'm happy with it20:59
ttx#topic Open discussion20:59
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)"20:59
EmilienMttx: thanks, it was good discussion20:59
fungidon't forget, tc office hours at 01:00 utc! i hope i'm not the only one this week, last week was lonely20:59
ttxAlright, that probably concludes our second adhoc meeting20:59
ttxfungi: I'll miss that one21:00
fungii expected that ;)21:00
dtroyerfungi: I'm planning to be here21:00
ttxI should tour the doc and sprinkle TC office hours info where needed21:00
ttxCurrently not so many people know they can reach out then21:00
ttxWe should mention it on the project-team-guide21:00
* ttx makes a note21:01
ttxOK, off time21:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:01
ttxThanks everyone21:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jun 20 21:01:08 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-06-20-20.01.html21:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-06-20-20.01.txt21:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-06-20-20.01.log.html21:01
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