Tuesday, 2017-07-11

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hongbin#topic Roll Call03:00
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hongbin#startmeeting zun03:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jul 11 03:00:13 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is hongbin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.03:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.03:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zun)"03:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'zun'03:00
hongbin#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zun#Agenda_for_2017-07-11_0300_UTC Today's agenda03:00
hongbin#topic Roll Call03:00
*** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: zun)"03:00
hongbinthanks for joining the meeting kevinz shubhams FengShengqin spn_ kiennt Namrata mkrai lakerzhou103:01
hongbinok, let's get started03:01
hongbin#topic Announcements03:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: zun)"03:01
hongbin1. Hongbin, Kevin and Shengqin will be at OpenStack China Day 2017-07-25.03:01
hongbinSomeone volunteer to hold the team meeting at 2017-07-25? or cancel it?03:01
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hongbinhi Shunli03:02
mkraiI can chair it but seems most of the  active members will be on leave so its better to cancel03:02
mkraihongbin: WDYT?03:02
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hongbinmkrai: ok, then let's cancel it03:03
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hongbini will send out a ML to announcement that03:03
mkraihongbin: Ok03:03
Shunlisee you next time.03:03
hongbin2. New BPs created03:03
hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/internal-dns-resolution Neutron DNS Using Container hostname03:04
hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/multi-node-ci Setup CI for multi-node Zun deployment03:04
hongbin#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/container-actions-api Introduce API to track status of each container actions03:04
mkraiSounds good03:04
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mkraiAll the best for presentation :)03:04
hongbinthe purpose of these announcement is to let everyone know what BPs we are creating, so that everyone would have a chance to review the new BPs03:05
Shunlisorry for later, you are talking that next team meeting will be canceled?03:05
hongbinmkrai: thank you03:05
hongbinShunli: the next next one :) since some of us is at China day03:05
Shunliack ,thx hingbin03:05
hongbinok, any other comment for the two announcement today?03:06
hongbinok, move on03:07
hongbin#topic Review Action Items03:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Review Action Items (Meeting topic: zun)"03:07
hongbin1. hongbin figure out why project logo is missing in Project Navigator (DONE)03:07
hongbin#link https://www.openstack.org/software/project-navigator The logo is there now03:07
hongbin2. hongbin figure out why project logo is missing in LB as well (DONE)03:07
hongbin#link https://launchpad.net/zun The logo is there now.03:07
kevinzthx hongbin :-)03:07
hongbinkevinz: my pleasure :)03:07
mkraihongbin: What was the issue?03:07
mkraiAnyway thanks for fixing it :)03:08
hongbinmkrai: the first one is the website maintained by OpenStack Foundation is not updated03:08
hongbinmkrai: the second one is resolved by configuring the LB03:08
mkraihongbin: I see. Thanks03:09
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hongbinok, that is all the action items, move on to the next topic03:10
hongbin#topic Introduce container composition (kevinz)03:10
*** openstack changes topic to "Introduce container composition (kevinz) (Meeting topic: zun)"03:10
hongbinkevinz: ^^03:10
hongbinfrom what i knew, kevinz uploaded a WIP patch for this BP03:11
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/480456/03:11
Shunlireally a huge patch03:12
kevinzA little huge, I will reuse some code to cut off the patch size:-)03:12
mkraiCan we break it in multiple patches ?03:13
Shunlino problem, as it's a huge feature.03:13
kevinzmkrai:Yeah of course03:13
kevinzThat will make it easy to read03:13
mkraiSo that easy to review if at all possible. Like split the api  and server code03:13
mkraikevinz: Thanks03:13
mkraikevinz: Is the patch functional?03:14
kevinzI will split this week after the Slides for China day is ready03:14
mkraiI would like to try creating a capsule03:14
mkraikevinz: Ok03:14
kevinzmkrai: Yeah you can try it, now support capsule and list03:14
kevinzcapsule create and capsule list03:14
mkraikevinz: That's great03:14
spn_sorry trying to figure out. is capsule like a pod?03:15
mkraispn_: Yes03:16
hongbinspn_: i think yes, you could consider it as a similar concept of pod03:16
kevinzspn_: yeah you can treat it like a pod, container composition03:16
mkraicapsule consist of multiple containers03:16
spn_mkrai: hongbin kevinz : thank u :)03:17
hongbinany additional comment for this topic?03:17
hongbinkevinz: thanks for your huge contribution on this feature !03:18
hongbin#topic NFV use cases03:18
*** openstack changes topic to "NFV use cases (Meeting topic: zun)"03:18
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hongbinlakerzhou1: hi, you want to drive this topic ?03:19
kevinzhongbin: My pleasure:-)03:19
hongbin#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zun-nfv-use-cases03:19
lakerzhou1I am working on the second design spec, hopefully I can send it for review this week03:19
hongbinlakerzhou1: cool, perhaps you could explain to others what is the second design spec is about03:20
lakerzhou1a couple of questions that need to have answers: 1. should we work with Kuryr, or kuryr is the only option03:20
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lakerzhou1the second spec will define how to create SR-IOV network and attach container to the network.03:21
hongbini see03:22
spn_second spec is use case 2?03:23
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lakerzhou1If we follow Nova/neutron SR-IOV implementation, SR-IOV network and ports are create first, then03:23
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lakerzhou1the port are bound to VMs03:23
lakerzhou1spn_. second spec is actually the first use case. In case you did not know, the first spec is to define the PCI-passthrough data model03:24
Shunlilakerzhou1: seems kuryr is the only option in zun now. anyway we need a network plugin to create network for container.03:24
hongbin#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/475913/03:24
lakerzhou1so scheduler can use the data model to schedule workload on corresponding node03:24
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lakerzhou1Shunli, if Kuryr is the only option, we need kuryr support on create SR-IOV virtual Function and bind it to container03:26
Shunlilakerzhou1: ok, so is there other options?03:26
lakerzhou1Mellanox has a driver available and looks simple to me.03:27
hongbin#link https://github.com/Mellanox/docker-passthrough-plugin03:27
lakerzhou1the driver should work for other vendors NIC too03:27
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lakerzhou1I am not sure how Kuryr can support the remote driver like this.03:28
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lakerzhou1if it can be done, it is probably the easiest option for both zun and kuryr03:28
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spn_lakerzhou1:  for i350 some one mentions here #link http://jason.digitalinertia.net/exposing-docker-containers-with-sr-iov/03:29
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hongbini think using kuryr is probably the optimal solution, if the implementation is feasible03:29
mkraihongbin: +103:29
lakerzhou1spn_, it is another remote driver based on pipework03:30
spn_lakerzhou1: yup03:30
Shunlias i know nova support pci passthrouh. kuryr just forward request to neutron.03:30
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Shunliso i prefer kuryr can support pci passthrough. this may need some investigation.03:31
hongbinlakerzhou1: if using mellanox, it will build another virtual network, that is in parallel with neutron?03:31
lakerzhou1the last puzzle to me is how kuryr bind a sriov port to container03:31
lakerzhou1the mellanox SR-IOV network is only visible on the docker node03:32
hongbini see03:33
ShunliI guess user using zun will not configure two drivers, or switch it between two drivers.03:33
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lakerzhou1kuryr should have existing implementation to map a neutron network to a docker network03:34
hongbinFrom end-users point of view, they will just see neutron (all docker drivers will be invisible)03:34
lakerzhou1and vise versa03:34
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spn_knowledge of neutron subnets i think03:34
hongbinlakerzhou1: i think neutron net and docker net is one-to-many mapping03:35
lakerzhou1So there are two options in kuryr, with the new mellanox driver, or without the driver.03:35
hongbinlakerzhou1: perhaps you could outline these options in a spec?03:36
lakerzhou1hongbin, I am trying to say it is existing kuryr function, to do the mapping.03:36
lakerzhou1yes, I will document all the options03:37
mkrailakerzhou1: hongbin We aslo need to see how well Mellanox driver is maintained?03:37
lakerzhou1please let me know any ideas03:37
mkraiI see there is only one contributor03:38
hongbini see03:38
lakerzhou1mkrai, do you know if intel has similar activity? I know intel were working on DPDK container support03:38
mkrailakerzhou1: I am sure there are work going on it but I am not connected to containers team03:39
mkraiAll are based in US03:39
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mkrailakerzhou1: If you want I can try to check it with the containers team03:40
lakerzhou1mkrai, please. you can send me a contact if you want.03:40
mkrailakerzhou1: Sure will do that03:40
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hongbinok, let's conclude this topic03:41
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hongbinto proceed, lakerzhou1 will upload a spec to clarify the options about sr-iov binding03:42
hongbinafter that, everyone could review the spec and weight the pros and cons for each option03:42
hongbinthen, we could re-discuss it at the next time we meet03:43
hongbincomments on it before moving to the next topic?03:43
hongbinlakerzhou1: thanks for driving this effort03:44
hongbinand all the hard work to write the specs03:44
hongbin#topic Deprecate NovaDocker driver03:45
*** openstack changes topic to "Deprecate NovaDocker driver (Meeting topic: zun)"03:45
hongbinfirst, i can introduce the background03:45
Shunli+1 fro deprecate the NovaDocker driver.03:45
hongbinright now, there are two drivers: native docker driver and nova docker driver03:45
lakerzhou1hongbin, no problem.03:46
hongbinthe nova docker driver was created in before as experimental driver03:46
hongbinthe goal is to leverage nova's capability to connect containers to neutron03:46
hongbinat that time, the native docker driver hadn't integrate with kuryr yet, so doesn't have neutron connection03:47
hongbinhowever, right now, we have the kuryr integration03:47
hongbinthen, it looks the nova-docker driver is not needed anymore03:47
hongbintherefore, i propose to deprecate it03:48
mkrai+1 for deprecating it03:48
hongbinmkrai: ack03:48
hongbinif everyone agree, i will work on a patch to move the code to /contrib folder03:49
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hongbinseems there is no objection so far03:49
digaHi, sorry I joined late, was stuck in traffic03:49
hongbindiga: hi, thanks for joining03:50
digahongbin: wc!03:50
hongbin#agreed deprecate nova docker driver03:50
hongbinthis finished all the topics in the agenda, le'ts move on to open discussion03:50
hongbin#topic Open Discussion03:50
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: zun)"03:50
hongbinthis is the free discussion time, please feel free to bring up any topic if you have one to discuss03:51
digaI was on leave last week, I will try to submit patch by passing gate this week on cinder integration03:51
hongbindiga: ack03:52
hongbindiga: thanks for that03:52
digahongbin: welcone!03:52
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hongbinkiennt: spn_ i remembered you two are the first time to joiin the team meeting, want to introduce youself to the team?03:54
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spn_hongbin: sure03:54
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hongbinspn_: please go ahead :)03:56
spn_I work for Dell EMC as Sr.prinicipal engineer. I am based in Dublin. I used to join for magnum meetings before. Then I got send to do some other work inside Dell. Now I am back to work on Openstack. I initially worked on ceilometer in 2012. I used work on Linux kernel specifically qemu/kvm. Now since sometime I am working on Dell openstack reference architecture03:56
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hongbinspn_: impressive introduction03:57
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mkraispn_: Welcome :)03:57
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kienntOh, hi everyone03:57
spn_mkrai: thank you03:57
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hongbinspn_: welcome to the zun team meeting03:58
diga_kiennt: spn_ Welcome to Zun !03:58
kiennti'm Kien Nguyen from Fujitsu VietNam, just call me Kien :)03:58
spn_diga_: thank you03:58
kienntdiga_: Thank you03:58
mkraikiennt: Welcome :)03:58
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hongbinkiennt: welcome,03:58
hongbinall, thanks for joining hte meeting03:59
hongbinsee you next time03:59
kienntmkrai, hongbin: Thank you.03:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"03:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jul 11 03:59:37 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)03:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-07-11-03.00.html03:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-07-11-03.00.txt03:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2017/zun.2017-07-11-03.00.log.html03:59
diga_kiennt: you can change your irc nic name to kien :)04:00
samPThanks Zun teem...!04:00
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samPHi all for Masakari04:00
samP#startmeeting masakari04:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jul 11 04:00:25 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is samP. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.04:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.04:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: masakari)"04:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'masakari'04:00
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samPhi all o/04:00
Dinesh_Bhorhi all04:00
samPlet's start..04:00
samP#topic Critical Bugs04:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Critical Bugs (Meeting topic: masakari)"04:01
samPany bugs to discuss?04:01
samPBTW, review request is done..04:01
samPIf no bugs to discuss, then let's move to discussion points.04:02
abhishekksamP: ok04:03
samP#topic Discussion points04:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Discussion points (Meeting topic: masakari)"04:03
samP1. Make nova on_shared_storage configurable04:03
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rkmrHonjoWe discussed about this topic last week.04:04
Dinesh_BhorIn last meeting it is decided to make "on_shared_storage" option configurable. Will submit patch soon.04:05
samPAgenda is not uptodate then..:)04:05
samPDinesh_Bhor: rkmrHonjo thanks..04:05
samPsorry, I should hv update it..04:06
rkmrHonjoDinesh_Bhor: Do you want to discuss about this now?04:06
Dinesh_BhorJust have one question related to this: will there be a situation like half of the instances are on shared-storage and half not in real deployment?04:06
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tpatilexample: host aggregate, some host aggregate on shared storage and others on non shared storage04:08
samPFirst, in order to use Masakari, instance must be on shared storage.04:09
samPif instance in not in shared storage evacuate = rebuild and can not rescue it.04:09
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tpatilThen  there is no point of making this option configurable04:11
samPCan you pass on_shared_storage option through nova API?04:11
rkmrHonjosamP: How do you think about user who uses boot-from-volume(and non shared storage)?04:12
tpatilYou can evacuate instance if it's not on shared storage04:12
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samPrkmrHonjo: in that case, on_shared_storage does not make any diff.04:13
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samPrkmrHonjo: because, it will be volume detach and re-attach after evacuate. right?04:13
tpatilDinesh : please update our findings about on shared storage parameter true and false04:14
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rkmrHonjosamP: I got it.04:14
Dinesh_Bhortpatil: yes04:15
Dinesh_Bhorif on_shared_storage option isTrue and the instance files are not on shared storage actually then evacuate calls fails04:15
samPI remember I fixed some thing related to this in past..04:15
samP#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/320231/04:15
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Dinesh_Bhorwhereas if the on_shared_storage option is False then there is no issue04:16
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samPDinesh_Bhor: true04:18
samP#link https://developer.openstack.org/api-ref/compute/?expanded=evacuate-server-evacuate-action-detail04:19
samPPlease see ^^04:19
samPStarting since version 2.14, Nova automatically detects whether the server is on shared storage or not.04:19
samPTherefore this parameter was removed.04:19
samPAm I going in wrong direction?04:20
rkmrHonjosamP: Should we bump nova API version  over 2.14 in masakari? Current version is 2.9.04:20
rkmrHonjo#link https://github.com/openstack/masakari/blob/master/masakari/compute/nova.py#L4204:21
tpatilin which micro version this parameter was removed04:21
Dinesh_Bhor#link https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/releasenotes/notes/remove-on-shared-storage-flag-from-evacuate-api-76a3d58616479fe9.yaml04:22
Dinesh_Bhorit is removed in microversion 2.1404:23
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tpatilWhat if the instances are booted from imaages?04:23
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samPtpatil: glance images?04:24
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samPsorry, Still cant see the problem..04:26
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samPfor image booted instance, if ephemeral disk is in shared_storage then, it works in normal way, right?04:27
tpatil_samP: you said the on_shared_storage parameter is removed, what if the instances are booted from images. THe data storage on the instances will be lost after evacuation, right?04:28
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tpatil_samP: if instances path is not using shared_storage04:28
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samPnova automatically detects whether it is in shared storage or not..04:29
samPtpatil_: in that case, yes04:29
tpatil_samP: If it's not on shared storage, does it fail to evacuate if instance is booted from image04:29
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samPtpatil_: I have to check, but I think it will not fail. instance will still evacuated (= rebuild)04:30
tpatil_samP: ok, do we want to allow masakari to evacuate instance in such cases04:30
Dinesh_BhorsamP: I have checked this. It evacuates = rebuilds04:31
abhishekksamP: i.e. if instance_path is not on shared storage04:31
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samPtpatil_: if operator define non shared storage cluster in masakari, then masakari will evacuate those instances..04:33
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samPtpatil_: which operator should not do..04:33
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samPif we can prevent that by set on_shared_storage option, then that would be good.04:34
tpatil_samP: in future, we might need to use nova version 2.14 above so making this option configurable is not a good solution04:35
samPHowever, my point is we can not control it after API v2.1404:35
tpatil_samP: so let's not make on_shared_storage option configurable04:35
samPtpatil_: agree.04:36
rkmrHonjotpatil_: +104:36
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samPdo we have bug report for this issue?04:36
tpatil_samP: but the questions remains if instances are booted from image, then there will be data loss. I don't think it's acceptable to the users04:37
tpatil_samP: I think we can document saying use masakari only if the instance path are on shared_storage04:37
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samPtpatil_: understand.. but instances booted from image on non shared storage... how do we rescue it when compute node no longer there..04:38
tpatil_samP: I understand that we don't have any control, but I just wanted to point from users perspective that there will be data loss04:39
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samPtpatil_: agree. we should put this in README.rst04:39
tpatil_samP: sure04:40
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samPtpatil_: that is a good point.. all the presentations we did in the past, this was an unspoken agreement..04:41
rkmrHonjotpatil: Will you modify masakari codes? I think that we should bump nova API version to 2.14 and remove on_shared_stroage parameter from nova.py.04:42
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tpatil_rkmrHonjo: Sure, we will submit a patch soon04:43
abhishekk2. Instance gets auto-confirmed(uses new flavor) if masakari evacuates an instance which was partially resized(resize-confirm is not performed)04:43
rkmrHonjotpatil: thanks.04:43
samPtpatil_: thanks..04:43
abhishekksamP: regarding second point, I have sent mail to operators mailing list but haven't got any constructive feedback yet, #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-operators/2017-July/013905.html04:43
samPabhishekk: thanks..04:43
samPI asked some ops to take a look at this..04:44
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abhishekksamP: I am also discussing same on operators IRC channel, but tow pepoples said they havent got this situation where they need to evacuate resized instance04:44
samPcurrently only Saverio has replied ..04:44
samPIt is a very rare situation04:45
samPBut still critical to us..04:45
abhishekksamP: #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-operators/%23openstack-operators.2017-07-10.log.html#t2017-07-10T08:37:1304:46
samPOn the other hand, most people do not use evacuate ..04:47
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Dinesh_BhorIn the meantime until nova makes changes to evacuate api to address this issue in masakari04:47
Dinesh_BhorFrom masakari side I have updated the patch which evacuates and stops the resized instance after evacuation on the basis of power_state of instance: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/469029/04:47
tpatil_samP: IMO, we should fix this issue in masakari first and keep following up with nova community to address this issue in nova04:48
samPDinesh_Bhor: Thanks04:48
samPtpatil_: agree.. fix nova will take time04:48
tpatil_samP: Ok, I will review Dinesh's patch taking this point into consideration04:49
samPLet's review and merge this..04:49
samPtpatil_: thanks..04:49
tpatil_samP: Sure04:49
samP3. Remove ERROR instances from recovery targets when host failure happen04:50
rkmrHonjoI want to add a configurable option. Error instances will be remove from recovery targets if the option is set.04:50
rkmrHonjoBecause some users don't want to launch error instances after recoverying.04:50
rkmrHonjoOfcourse there is a possibility that following patch resolve this issue, but that will take time.04:50
rkmrHonjo#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/469029/04:50
samPrkmrHonjo: do you want to remove only "ERROR" instances?04:52
rkmrHonjosamP: Yes. But I think that there is another solution. Writing the rescuable statuses in masakari.conf.04:52
Dinesh_BhorWith the above patch error instance will be stopped after evacuation04:53
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Dinesh_BhorIn the master code error instances will be evacuated and the final state will be active04:54
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samPDinesh_Bhor: rkmrHonjo's proposal is not to evacaute error instance, which is slightly different from stop after evacuate, right?04:54
rkmrHonjosamP: yes.04:55
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samPrkmrHonjo: "rescuable statues" in config is much like Recovery method customization04:55
abhishekkso even isntance which is in error state and marked as HA_Enabled True will be ignored in this case right?04:55
samPabhishekk: right04:55
abhishekksamP: thanls04:56
rkmrHonjoabhishekk: yes, that is my wish.04:56
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abhishekk3 minutes left04:57
samPI do not think it is a good idea to list down all rescuable statues in config, where we have spec for "Recovery method customization"04:57
samPabhishekk: yep04:57
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samPLet's continue this discussion in ML04:57
abhishekkI will fix comment given by rkmrHonjo on API specification patch04:57
rkmrHonjosamP: OK. I'll send a mail.04:57
samPI will send a mail with my thoughts..04:58
rkmrHonjoabhishekk: thanks a lot! I'll check it.04:58
samPrkmrHonjo: please..04:58
abhishekkI have submitted updated specs for recovery method customization #link https://review.openstack.org/45802304:58
samPabhishekk: thanks..04:58
abhishekkin this specs I have mentioned which actions we need to add in mistral04:58
abhishekkplease have a look at it04:58
samPabhishekk: great.. I will review this..04:58
samP1m  left04:59
abhishekksamP: thank you04:59
samPplease offload to #openstack-masakari or ML with [masakari] for further discussions..04:59
samPthank you all04:59
rkmrHonjothank you.04:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"04:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jul 11 04:59:55 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)04:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-07-11-04.00.html04:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-07-11-04.00.txt04:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/masakari/2017/masakari.2017-07-11-04.00.log.html05:00
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Qiming#startmeeting senlin13:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jul 11 13:00:57 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.13:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.13:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'senlin'13:01
Qimingevening, guys13:01
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Qiminganyone online?13:03
Qiminghi, elynn13:03
XueFenghi ,Qiming13:03
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elynnParallel attending other meetings at the same time...13:03
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xinhuili_hi, everyone13:03
QimingThanks you drafting the agenda, XueFeng13:03
Qiminghi xinhui and ruijie13:03
Qiminglet's get started13:04
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Qiming#topic agenda13:04
*** openstack changes topic to "agenda (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:04
Qiming#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda13:04
XueFengHi, Qiming ,my pleasure13:04
Qimingpls add items if you have one13:04
Qiming#topic pike work items13:04
*** openstack changes topic to "pike work items (Meeting topic: senlin)"13:04
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Qiminglet's see if there are any updates on the work items etherpad13:05
Qiming#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-pike-workitems13:05
XueFenghi Guest53985,13:05
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Qimingjust noticed the new item about API test13:05
XueFenguse /nick name can change you nick13:05
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Qimingbut no one has yet claimed that item13:06
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Qimingelynn has committed a new patch to "feature rich nova server"13:07
elynnI test it locally today, and I think it could work as expected.13:07
Qimingit is still a WIP13:07
elynnI didn't add any version information to those new properties,13:08
XueFengI think liyi is test api and do pathch for the doc. We can leave a comment in his patch13:08
elynnSo I just leave it as WIP13:08
Qiming486 lines added to the server profile, not counting the test cases, :)13:08
Qiminggot it, elynn13:08
QimingGuest53985 is liyi probably?13:08
elynnWhat do you suggest about adding version info to those new properties?13:09
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Qimingideally, I'd suggest we port all profile implementation to oslo.versionedobjects13:10
elynnokay.. I will look into that.13:11
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Qiminghowever, if we can hide the details from end users, maybe it is still okay to use the current versioning support13:11
XueFengGuest53983 is yaofenghua I think13:11
XueFengI leave a comment in liyi's patch13:11
QimingXueFeng, thanks13:12
QimingI'm not aware of any other changes to senlin engine13:12
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Qimingdo we still have a lot to do regarding runtime_data implementation?13:13
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ruijieQiming, I want to add some data to action.outputs after execute is13:13
Qimingem, that is good suggestion13:14
Qimingalthough we don't have a strict schema for action inputs or outputs13:14
ruijiebut that may need to query databases, e.g  nodes created13:15
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QimingI'd still prefer a systematic way to get it done13:15
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Qimingdifferent actions produce different data as outputs13:16
Qimingmaybe we should document them in the design docs13:16
ruijieyes, that should be formatted13:16
Qimingso at least we are still not losing control of what was dumped in P version and what was added later in Q version ... so on and so forth13:17
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Qimingwe don't need a strict protocol on that, right?13:18
QimingI mean we don't want to check if a field exists and if it is actually an integer for example13:18
Qimingactions are primarily provided as a debugging tool13:18
ruijieit could be something like the action payload?13:19
Qimingjust document what are expected as inputs and/or outputs would be okay13:19
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Qimingthe action.outputs only surface when you do 'action show'13:20
ruijieit is mainly used for later processing in policies and dumping events to MQ13:20
Qimingalthough internally it may get checked by some policies13:20
Qimingright, events ...13:20
Qiminggo ahead and do it, :)13:21
ruijieokay :)13:21
Qimingmoving on13:22
Qimingwe got some progress on RDO packaging, right?13:22
openstackbugzilla.redhat.com bug 1426551 in Package Review "Review Request: Senlin - is a clustering service for OpenStack" [Unspecified,Assigned] - Assigned to jpena13:22
Qimingsomeone has taken over that job13:22
XueFengGot  process these days13:22
XueFengand in rdo project code is in review13:23
Qimingif there are things needed from senlin side, just let yell in #senlin channel13:23
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Qimingany other updates regarding pike work items?13:25
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Qimingany updates to that bp, XueFeng ?13:27
xinhuili_what kind of order? could you explain more,XueFeng13:27
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XueFengI want to ask which state about this bp13:28
Qimingit is there13:28
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Qimingno follow up after the review13:30
Qimingno new patch13:30
Qimingno response to the comments13:30
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XueFengSo the better way is  to add a column to the cluster table, followed by an upgrade of the cluster apis?13:30
xinhuili_why index is important13:30
xinhuili_I do not get the point of this BP13:31
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Qimingindex will be used as part of node name13:31
Qimingif name can be predictable, the 'hostname' of a VM is predictable13:31
xinhuili_is any dependency on the node name13:31
xinhuili_by exited adoption?13:31
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Qimingand it will help applications running in nodes13:32
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Qimingcurrently, there are two possibilities, all nodes named the same13:32
Qimingor names have random suffixes13:32
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Qimingneither one meets the requirement sketched above13:32
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Qimingif anyone is interested in working on this, I can share my thoughts on it13:33
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Qimingactually, I wrote some ideas in the first review13:35
XueFengcurrent the name is the same, it's better to improve I think13:35
elynnIf we don't specify name in profile, I think it's different?13:35
Qimingit is definitely a good feature13:35
Qimingdifferent is not enough13:36
Qimingusers want the name predictable13:36
Qimingsay, 'k8sworker-1', 'k8sworker-2'13:36
elynnLike cluster_name-index?13:36
Qimingor 'redis-1', 'redis-2', ...13:36
elynnYes, that's reasonable.13:37
Qimingthen user can predict the node names13:37
Qimingnot 'node-blah', 'node-xyz123', ...13:37
elynnI remember our node name have some rules like that.13:37
elynnWhy not just make it the same as node name?13:38
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xinhuili_or in order words, what kind of name protocal will be preferred13:39
elynnIt's easy to do so, some monitoring system is based on vm name I guess.13:39
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xinhuili_for this BP13:39
xinhuili_easy to map?13:39
xinhuili_keep unified?13:39
xinhuili_fir for different use cases?13:39
Qimingxinhuili_, read the first comment I left there13:40
Qiming#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/461673/13:41
QimingI was suggesting we may this configurable13:41
xinhuili_reading ...13:41
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xinhuili_good idea to make the rule configurable13:42
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Qimingokay, back to the agenda13:42
Qimingdon't know if people have interests in standing up a k8s cluster using senlin13:43
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QimingI don't see that a big challenge, just need hands to work it out13:44
XueFengQiming , share the idea to us13:44
QimingXueFeng, not today, the agenda is already too long13:44
XueFengMore detail13:44
Qimingwe are not supposed to overrun13:44
* Qiming trying to find a pointer13:45
Qiminghere: https://github.com/kubernetes/kubernetes/tree/master/cluster/openstack-heat/kubernetes-heat13:45
Qimingsome hints for those who are interested13:46
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Qimingit is part of official k8s code13:46
elynnI guess that heat template is not easy to use :P13:46
Qimingyes, that is where we can help13:47
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Qimingrecent feedbacks: users still have lock problems13:47
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Qimingmaybe because they were using old version13:48
XueFengYes ,in Ocata version13:48
Qimingthe complaint I got is about 3.0.013:48
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ruijieI am :)13:48
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Qimingruijie, you got lock problems recently?13:49
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XueFengCan't clean lock when restart engine13:49
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ruijiedidnt't see that problem again13:49
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ruijieI said I am interested in the interations of senlin & k8s13:49
Qimingplease ring the bell when you see things abnormal13:50
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Qiming#topic sydney proposals13:50
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Qimingit is drawing near13:50
Qimingpls think about what you want to propose if any13:50
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Qimingif you want, you can pass your draft across the team for comments13:51
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elynnDo you have any proposals?13:51
XueFengAbout adoptation we can do a proposal13:51
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Qimingadoption be one, but the story is not that attractive for users13:52
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QimingI'd like to see k8s standing up on senlin13:52
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Qimingwith very few parametes to tune13:52
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elynnThat's another proposal I guess13:53
XueFengAnd if we use k8s+ senlin13:53
Qimingbut ... I myself is overrrrr committed at the time13:53
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XueFengShould we intergate kuryr?13:53
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elynnI could try to do some poc codes if you like13:54
QimingXueFeng, it depends13:54
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XueFengI am interested13:54
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Qimingso .... good elynn13:54
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Qimingfrom k8s side, they are assumming the cloud provider provides a clustering service13:55
Qimingon openstack that interface has not been claimed13:55
elynnBut you have to share more info to us, ur the expert of k8s :)13:55
Qimingwe are almost a perfect fit for that role13:55
elynnLike how lb and network work.13:55
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Qiminglb should be hidden, ideally13:56
XueFengThis is the bp fo integration kuryr13:56
Qimingjust expose one IP for a cluster as the service IP13:56
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elynnI remember that k8s has api service and can be integrate with lb I assume?13:56
Qimingthanks for proposing that, XueFeng13:57
Qimingit would be better if someone has started the coding/testing work, :D13:57
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XueFengMy pleasure13:57
Qimingyes, k8s has that13:57
Qimingbut ... I'm very disappointed by lbaas on openstack13:57
QimingI'd prefer calling out to haproxy or nginx directly ...13:58
elynnYou mean we can get rid of laas in k8s cluster?13:59
elynnHmm, that's another approach13:59
Qimingavoid ocativa when possible, I mean13:59
Qimingit is terrible13:59
XueFengWe can do in this way13:59
Qimingsorry, running out of time13:59
Qimingthanks for joining boys & girls13:59
Qiminggood night13:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"14:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jul 11 14:00:02 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)14:00
XueFenggood night:)14:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2017/senlin.2017-07-11-13.00.html14:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2017/senlin.2017-07-11-13.00.txt14:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2017/senlin.2017-07-11-13.00.log.html14:00
elynnWe can arrange another time for proposals14:00
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Qimingsure, elynn14:00
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ihrachys#startmeeting neutron_ci16:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jul 11 16:00:37 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ihrachys. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.16:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)"16:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_ci'16:00
ihrachyshi jlibosva16:01
* ihrachys waves at haleyb too16:01
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ihrachyswe haven't had a meeting for a while16:01
ihrachys#topic Actions from prev week16:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from prev week (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)"16:01
jlibosvaweek :)16:01
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ihrachysmore than a week no? anyhoo.16:02
ihrachysfirst AI was "jlibosva to craft an email to openstack-dev@ with func-py3 failures and request for action"16:02
ihrachysI believe that we made significant progress for py3 for func tests16:02
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ihrachysjlibosva, can you briefly update about latest?16:02
jlibosvayep, team did a great job and took down failures pretty quick16:02
jlibosvalast time I checked we had a single failure that's caused likely by a bug in eventlet16:03
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jlibosvasome thread switch takes too long - increasing a timeout for particular test helps: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/475888/16:03
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jlibosvabut that's not a correct way to go16:03
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jlibosvaI planned to reach out to some eventlet peeps but I haven't yet16:03
ihrachyswho would be the peeps?16:03
jlibosvaI'll try vstinner first16:04
ihrachyscool, seems like we are on track with it16:05
jlibosvaI can take an AI till the next mtg16:05
ihrachys#action jlibosva to reach out to Victor Stinner about eventlet/py3 issue with functional tests16:05
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ihrachysnext AI was "jlibosva to talk to otherwiseguy about isolating ovsdb/ovs agent per fullstack 'machine'"16:06
jlibosvaso that's an interesting thing16:06
ihrachysjlibosva, I was trying to find the patch that otherwiseguy had for ovsdbapp with the test fixture lately and couldn't find it. have a link?16:06
otherwiseguyihrachys, we've been talking about it quite a bit today. :p16:06
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jlibosvaihrachys: it's hidden :)16:06
jlibosvahere https://review.openstack.org/#/c/470441/30/ovsdbapp/venv.py16:06
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ihrachysoh ok that patch. I expected a separate one.16:07
otherwiseguyyeah, that should have been separate. :(16:07
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jlibosvaI was actually doing some coding and I'm trying to use the ovsdb-server in a sandbox16:07
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jlibosvamy concern was whether we'll be able to connect "nodes"16:07
jlibosvameaning that bridges in one sandbox must be reachable by bridges from the other sandbox16:08
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jlibosvait seems the ovs_system sees all entities in the sandboxes - so I hope we're on a good track16:08
ihrachysok cool. how do you test it? depends-on won't work until new lib is released right?16:09
jlibosvacurrently I have some code that runs ovs agent, each using its own ovsdb-server16:09
jlibosvaI haven't pushed anything to gerrit yet so I have an egg-link pointing to ovsdbapp dir16:09
ihrachysah ok.16:09
jlibosvabut generally, yeah, for gate we'll need a new ovsdbapp release16:10
ihrachysotherwiseguy, can we get it split separately this week?16:10
otherwiseguyIt's entirely possible that I will have enough in for 1.0 this week.16:10
otherwiseguymaybe 0.99 just to be safe. :p16:10
ihrachysotherwiseguy, but this patch is not in yet right?16:10
ihrachysoh it is16:10
otherwiseguythe venv patch is.16:11
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otherwiseguyjust not in a release.16:11
jlibosvaI have some WIP for ovsdbapp too, to not start ovn schemas, would be nice to get it in release too, if the patch makes sense16:11
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ihrachysjlibosva, why github fork?16:11
jlibosvaihrachys: to show the WIP patch16:12
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jlibosvaihrachys: it's 2 hours old :)16:12
ihrachysthe idea of the patch makes a lot of sense. I think we discussed that before.16:12
ihrachysplease post to gerrit so that we can bash it16:12
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jlibosvaoh did we? maybe I forgot, I just wanted to have the small minimum for my fullstack work16:13
ihrachys#action jlibosva to post patch splitting OVN from OvsVenvFixture16:13
jlibosvaI'll push it once I polish it16:13
jlibosvaI'm also not sure e.g. if vtap belongs to ovn or ovs ...16:13
ihrachysjlibosva, two weeks ago while drinking beer. I am not surprized some details could be forgotten :)16:14
jlibosvadamn you beer16:14
ihrachysnah. yay beer. it spurred discussion in the first place.16:14
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ihrachysok, we'll wait for your patch on gerrit and then whine about it there16:15
ihrachysnice work otherwiseguy btw, it's a long standing issue for fullstack and you just solved it16:15
* otherwiseguy crosses his fingers16:15
ihrachysnext AI was on me "ihrachys to update about functional/fullstack switch to devstack-gate and rootwrap"16:15
ihrachysso, to unblock the gate, we landed the patch switching fullstack and functional test runners to rootwrap, then landed the switch of those gates to devstack-gate16:16
ihrachyswhich resulted in breakage of fullstack job because some tests are still apparently not using rootwrap correctly16:16
ihrachyswhich is the reason why fullstack is 100% failing in grafana ;)16:16
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ihrachysI didn't have time to look at it till now. I should have some till next meeting.16:17
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ihrachys#action ihrachys to look at why fullstack switch to rootwrap/d-g broke some test cases16:17
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ihrachysnext was "haleyb to continue looking at prospects of dvr+ha job"16:17
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haleybyes, i'm here16:17
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ihrachysthe last time we talked about it you were going to watch the progress of the new job16:18
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* ihrachys looks at grafana16:18
haleybthe job looks ok, it is still non-voting of course16:19
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haleybit can still be higher than the dvr-multinode job16:19
ihrachysI see it's 25%+ right now. is it ok?16:19
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haleybwhen i looked yesterday it was lower, need to refresh16:20
haleybihrachys: maybe it's time to split that check queue panel into two - grenade and tempest16:21
ihrachysyeah I guess that could help. it's a mess right now.16:21
ihrachyshaleyb, will you post a patch?16:21
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haleybsure i can do that.  i don't know why it's failing more now, i'll have to look further16:22
ihrachys#action haleyb to split grafana check dashboard into grenade and tempest charts.16:23
ihrachyshaleyb, re failure rate, even dvr one seem to be on too high level16:23
haleybas part of the job reduction was going to suggest making it voting to replace the dvr-multinode16:23
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haleybyes, they usually track each other.  last time i saw higher failures it was node setup issue, which is more likely to happen the more nodes we use16:24
ihrachysit's 3 nodes for ha right?16:24
haleybyes, 3 nodes versus 216:25
ihrachysack. yeah, replacing would be the end goal. if we know for sure it's just node setup thing, I think we can make the call to switch anyway. we should know though.16:25
ihrachys#action haleyb to continue looking at dvr-ha job failure rate and reasons16:26
haleybi will have to go to logstash to see what's failing and if it's not just bad patches, since it is the check queue and not gate16:26
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ihrachysnext was "ihrachys to talk to qa/keystone and maybe remove v3-only job"16:26
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ihrachysthis is done as part of https://review.openstack.org/47473316:27
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ihrachysnext is "haleyb to analyze all the l3 job flavours in gate/check queues and see where we could trim"16:27
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ihrachyswe already touched on it somewhat16:27
haleyblet me cut/paste a comment16:27
haleybregarding the grenade gate queue16:27
haleybgrenade-dsvm-neutron and grenade-dsvm-neutron-multinode are both16:28
haleybvoting.  Propose we remove the single-node job, multinode will16:28
haleybjust need a small Cells v2 tweak in its config.  This is16:28
haleybactually two jobs less since there's a -trusty and -xenial.16:28
haleybdoh, that pasted bad16:28
ihrachysclarkb and other infra folks were eager to see progress on it because they had some issues with log storage disk space.16:28
ihrachyshaleyb, trusty is about to go if not already since it was newton only, and mitaka is EOL now16:28
haleybbasically there are single-node and multinode jobs, i think we can just use the multinode ones16:28
clarkbihrachys: trusty should mostly be gone at this point16:29
haleybihrachys: i was going to ask about -trusty, that would be a nice cleanup16:29
ihrachyshaleyb, since the single node job is part of integrated gate, do you imply that we do the replacement for all projectd?16:29
clarkbif you notice any straggler trusty jobs let us know and we can help remove them16:29
ihrachysclarkb, nice16:29
haleybneutron has a bunch16:30
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clarkbhaleyb: still running as of today?16:30
clarkbmost of the cleanup happened late last week16:30
haleybihrachys: i would think having multi-node is better than single-node, and more like a real setup16:30
haleybclarkb: i don't know, just see them on the grafana dashboard16:31
clarkbhaleyb: ya I think we kept them in the dashboard so you don't lose the historical data?16:31
ihrachysgrafana may have obsolete entries, not everyone is even aware about its existence in project-config16:31
clarkbbut we may have missed things16:31
ihrachysclarkb, we use those dashboards for current state so it's ok to clean them up16:31
clarkbas for making multinode default in the integrated gate, I've been in favor of it because like you say it is more realistic, but resistance/concern has been that it will be even more difficult for developers to reproduce locally and debug16:32
clarkbnow you need 16GB of ram and ~160GB of disk just to run a base test16:32
ihrachyshaleyb, since you are going to do some cleanup there anyway, I will put that on you too ;)16:32
clarkbbut I think its worth revisiting that discussion because maybe that is necessary and we take that trade off (also how many people reproduce locally?)16:32
ihrachys#action haleyb to clean up old trusty charts from grafana16:33
haleybok, np16:33
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haleybclarkb: yeah, i was looking more at the failure rates, which are about the same, and which is more important16:34
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haleybthe grenade jobs where the only ones with this overlap16:34
haleybthe other thing is we would still have the multinode and dvr-multinode jobs, but i had a thought on that16:35
ihrachysclarkb, I think the switch would fit nicely in your goal of reducing the number of jobs. where would we start from to drive it? ML? I guess folks would want to see stats on stability of the job before committing to anything?16:35
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clarkbyes I think the ML is good place to start. QA team in particular had concerns16:36
clarkbincluding stats on stability would be good16:36
haleybsince we don't want to reduce coverage on non-dvr code, i was wondering if it was possible to use the dvr setup, but also run tests with a "legacy" router16:36
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clarkband maybe an argument for how it is more realistic, eg which code paths can we test on top of the base job (metadata proxy, live migration come to mind)16:36
ihrachysok. I guess it may make sense to focus on neutron state for a bit to prove to ourselves it's a good replacement, then go to broader audience.16:36
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haleybso i can send something to the ML regarding the grenade jobs16:38
clarkband I can respond with info on log server retention and trying to get that udner control16:38
clarkband how reducing job counts will help16:38
ihrachyshaleyb, in theory, each test class could be transformed into a scenario class passing different args to create_router (scenarios could be generated from the list of api extensions except for dvr that may incorrectly indicate support at least before pike)16:38
ihrachysok, let's start a discussion on grenade reduction now, we can polish multinode job in parallel16:39
haleybihrachys: right, the only problem could be that only the admin can create non-dvr routers in a dvr setup16:39
ihrachys#action haleyb to spin up a ML discussion on replacing single node grenade job with multinode in integrated gate16:40
haleybunfortunately the tempest gate didn't have the overlap the grenade one did16:40
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* haleyb stops there since every time he talks he gets another job :)16:42
ihrachyshaleyb, I would imagine tempest core repo, being a certification tool, may not want to see dvr/ha specific scenarios.16:42
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ihrachyshaleyb, haha. well we may find other candidates for some items that are on you. speak up. :)16:43
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haleybihrachys: nah, the grafana and jobs are easy, digging into my other dvr option would be harder16:43
ihrachysok ok16:43
ihrachysand just to piss you off16:44
ihrachys#action haleyb to continue looking at places to reduce the number of jobs16:44
ihrachysok those were all items we had16:44
ihrachys#topic Grafana16:44
*** openstack changes topic to "Grafana (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)"16:44
ihrachyswe somewhat discussed that before16:44
ihrachysone thing to spot there though is that functional job is in a bad shape it seem16:44
ihrachysit's currently ~25-30% in gate16:45
ihrachysI checked both https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bugs?field.tag=functional-tests&orderby=-id&start=0 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bugs?field.tag=gate-failure&orderby=-id&start=0 for any new bug reports that could explain it, with no luck16:45
ihrachysI also checked some recent failures16:45
ihrachysof those I spotted some were for https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/169393116:46
openstackLaunchpad bug 1693931 in neutron "functional test_next_port_closed test case failed with ProcessExecutionError when killing netcat" [High,Confirmed]16:46
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ihrachysbut I haven't done complete triage16:47
ihrachysI will take it on me to complete it asap16:47
ihrachys#action ihrachys to complete triage of latest functional test failures that result in 30% failure rate16:47
ihrachysanyone aware of late issues with the gate that could explain it?16:47
ihrachysI guess not. ok I will look closer.16:48
ihrachysone other tiny thing that bothers me every time I look at grafana is - why do we have postgres job in periodics?16:49
ihrachysit doesn't seem like anyone really cares, and TC plans to express it explictly that psql is second class citizen in openstack16:49
* ihrachys wonders if we need it there16:50
ihrachysI would be fine to have it there if someone would work on the failures.16:50
ihrachysbtw I talk about http://grafana.openstack.org/dashboard/db/neutron-failure-rate?panelId=4&fullscreen16:50
ihrachysit's always 100% and makes me click each other job name to see their results are 0%16:50
jlibosvajust send a patch to remove it and let's see who will complain :)16:51
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ihrachysok ok16:52
ihrachys#action ihrachys to remove pg job from periodics grafana board16:52
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ihrachysfinally, fullstack is 100% but I said I will have a look so moving on16:52
ihrachys#topic Gate bugs16:52
*** openstack changes topic to "Gate bugs (Meeting topic: neutron_ci)"16:52
openstackLaunchpad bug 1696690 in neutron "neutron fails to connect to q-agent-notifier-port-delete_fanout exchange" [Undecided,Confirmed]16:52
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ihrachysthis was reported lately16:53
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ihrachysseems like affecting ironic16:53
ihrachysit seems like a fanout queue was not created16:55
ihrachysbut shouldn't neutron-server itself initialize it on start?16:55
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ihrachysok doesn't seem anyone has an idea :)16:58
* jlibosva ¯\_(ツ)_/¯16:58
ihrachysseems something ironic/grenade specific, and they may in the end need to be more active poking us in our channel to get more traction.16:58
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ihrachyswe have little time, so let's take those 2 mins we have back16:58
ihrachysthanks everyone16:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"16:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jul 11 16:59:03 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)16:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ci/2017/neutron_ci.2017-07-11-16.00.html16:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ci/2017/neutron_ci.2017-07-11-16.00.txt16:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ci/2017/neutron_ci.2017-07-11-16.00.log.html16:59
jlibosvathanks, bye16:59
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lbragstadping ayoung, breton, cmurphy, dstanek, edmondsw, gagehugo, henrynash, hrybacki, knikolla, lamt, lbragstad, lwanderley, notmorgan, rderose, rodrigods, samueldmq, spilla, aselius18:00
lbragstad#startmeeting keystone18:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jul 11 18:00:15 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is lbragstad. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:00
lbragstad#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting18:00
lbragstadwelcome back!18:00
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samueldmqhey lbragstad18:00
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lbragstadwe'll give it another minute for folks to trickle in18:01
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lbragstad#topic Announcements18:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:03
lbragstad#info let's start planning for the PTG in september18:03
lbragstad#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-July/119299.html18:03
lbragstadi've started an etherpad and bootstrapped it with the usual topics18:03
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lbragstad#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-queens-ptg18:03
samueldmqlbragstad: just added to the etherpad, we will have somethign interesting for Queens18:04
lbragstadplease feel free to start adding to it18:04
samueldmq#link https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/master/keystone/common/controller.py#L36-L4518:04
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lbragstadsamueldmq: yeah - that'd be a good one to finally get rid of18:04
samueldmqremoval of v2.0 CRUD APIs18:04
lbragstadin a few weeks we will start grouping like topics together much like we did for the PTG in atlanta18:05
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samueldmqthat will help on being productive at the PTG18:05
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lbragstadstart thinking of cross project items - i'd like to start coordinating those topics sooner rather than later18:05
lbragstad#topic Removing sample_data.sh18:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Removing sample_data.sh (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:06
lbragstadi sent a thread about this18:06
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lbragstad#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-July/119309.html18:06
lbragstadcmurphy: thanks for your reply there18:06
lbragstadi'd appreciate opinions or ideas on what we should do with that18:06
lbragstadright now - i think we either need to formally test it somehow or remove it18:06
samueldmqwhat does devstack use to set up the sample data?18:06
samueldmqthat data seems pretty similar to some of what devstack sets up18:07
lbragstad`keystone-manage bootstrap`18:07
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samueldmqlbragstad: but that smaple_data also includes adding other services, other users and projects (like demo, admin)18:07
bknudsonwhat sample data?18:07
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samueldmqbknudson: ^18:07
bknudsonright, like a demo user18:07
samueldmqand our script also does that https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/82f60fe22c405829f8e5f6576f25cf3663b10f73/tools/sample_data.sh#L31-L3818:08
lbragstadit'd be nice to have the backstory on that18:08
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lbragstadi'm not sure where that script came from - but if it's useful and if we want to keep it, we should find a way to test it18:08
samueldmqI wonder if ours isnt somehting that is replaced by what they have, then there is no reason to keep ours18:09
bknudsonthe history is in git.18:09
lbragstad#link https://github.com/openstack/keystone/commit/09a64dd862463fe116c4ddb8aee538e4bc7f56e018:10
samueldmqlbragstad: exactly. and I guess it isnt used by devstack anymore18:10
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samueldmq#link https://github.com/openstack-dev/devstack/blob/66109302ab51ce89c5d2e9fe0e01cbdca8963fbf/lib/keystone#L30918:12
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samueldmqthis should replace what we have ^ since it's what devstack uses18:12
bknudsonwe don't need to do what devstack does.18:12
bknudsondevstack is for testing18:13
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lbragstaddevstack already does it - so if anything i would think we could remove it18:13
samueldmqand that means we dont need what that script does18:13
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samueldmqkeystone goes standalone, keystone-manage bootstrap is enough18:13
lbragstadok - sounds like i need to follow up on my ML thread then18:13
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samueldmqif one wants to get more things in keystone for testing, get a devstack18:14
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samueldmqcmurphy: does that make sense to you too ?18:14
samueldmqlbragstad: ++18:14
lbragstadmoving on18:14
lbragstad#topic VMT Coverage18:14
*** openstack changes topic to "VMT Coverage (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:14
lbragstadgagehugo: o/18:14
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gagehugo#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/447139/18:14
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gagehugowe had talked about getting VMT coverage for multiple keystone services at the Atlanta PTG18:15
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samueldmqgagehugo: can we get an overview what VMT is about again?18:15
samueldmqso we're all in the same page18:15
gagehugosamueldmq uh sure one sec it's been awhile18:15
gagehugothere was an etherpad on it from the ATL PTG18:16
lbragstad#link https://security.openstack.org/vmt-process.html18:16
gagehugolbragstad thanks18:16
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lbragstadnotes from the session18:16
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lbragstad#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/pike-ptg-keystone-vmt-coverage18:16
lbragstadlast i remember is that we were waiting on reviews from the security team18:17
gagehugoyeah, the middleware doc was written right before the osic thing happened18:17
lbragstadthings kinda fizzled out after that18:17
gagehugowe had a couple people to review it, but I think they were no longer full-time security after that18:17
lbragstadgagehugo: maybe reach back out to the security team and see where things stand?18:18
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gagehugolbragstad will do18:18
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lbragstad#action gagehugo to reach back out to the security team about keystonemiddleware VMT coverage18:18
lbragstadgagehugo: thanks!18:18
gagehugowasn't sure if there was anything else we should do?18:18
lbragstadgagehugo: i don't think so - we were waiting on feedback18:19
lbragstadgagehugo: anything else VMT related besides that?18:19
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lbragstad#topic Configuration guides from openstack-manuals18:19
*** openstack changes topic to "Configuration guides from openstack-manuals (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:19
lbragstadsjain_: o/18:19
sjain_the configuration references docs have been migrated as per the specs18:20
lbragstad#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/474543/18:20
lbragstadlooks like it's all being generated automatically from the code, too18:20
lbragstadwhich is great18:20
sjain_just need someone to review those :D18:20
lbragstad#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/479631/18:21
sjain_thanks for the review lbragstad18:21
lbragstadsjain_: no problem18:21
lbragstadsjain_: that should be the last few patches for the doc-migration work for keystone, right?18:21
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sjain_samueldmq: can you also review these pls18:21
sjain_yes I think18:21
samueldmqsjain_: sure18:21
lbragstadthen we have to go through all the other identity project docs - but that shouldn't be too bad18:21
sjain_these were all we needed to migrate18:21
sjain_I have one thing to discuss18:22
sjain_thanks gagehugo for the review here18:22
gagehugosjain_ np!18:22
sjain_should this change from policy.json to policy.yaml be done on all other docs too?18:22
samueldmqsjain_: lbragstad: all approved.18:22
sjain_thanks :)18:23
lbragstadsjain_: i would make it consistent for sure18:23
lbragstadotherwise it could be confusing18:23
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samueldmqsjain_: there were a couple of comments from gagehugo, make sure to addresss them in a follow up18:23
samueldmqlbragstad: ++18:23
lbragstadwe should also try to include a statement explaining the difference between a policy.yaml and policy.json18:23
sjain_samueldmq: yes I'm working on those18:23
gagehugolbragstad ++18:23
samueldmqlbragstad: agreed18:23
lbragstador if that's already done in oslo.policy, we can just link to it18:23
samueldmqotherwise people will find htey have different intents18:23
lbragstadi wouldn't be opposed to doing that in a follow on patch18:24
* lbragstad has a ton of documentation patches to rebase18:24
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sjain_okay a new patch explaining the difference18:25
lbragstadsjain_: chances are that's already documented somewhere18:25
lbragstadprobably in oslo.policy18:25
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lbragstad#link https://docs.openstack.org/oslo.policy/latest/admin/index.html18:25
sjain_okay I'll search there18:25
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lbragstadwe can tastefully incorporate a link to that document somewhere in our docs though18:26
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lbragstadsjain_: do you have anything else doc-migration wise?18:27
sjain_no, once this is migrated I'll be making new directories as per the spec18:28
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sjain_I have one thing docs related18:28
sjain_I was earlier working on improving devdocs18:28
sjain_this patch is failing tests after several rechecks, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/476541/18:29
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sjain_all other changes have been made18:29
sjain_and it should be easy to review18:29
lbragstadDetails: {'created': '2017-07-11T10:31:28Z', 'code': 500, 'message': 'Build of instance 6b4db404-333d-4e98-b4f9-6158486b6687 aborted: Block Device Mapping is Invalid.'}18:29
gagehugojenkins was super unstable yesterday it seems, maybe also early this morning18:30
lbragstadat first glance - it looks unrelated18:31
samueldmqyes, definitely unrelated18:31
sjain_yes it seems so18:31
samueldmqour docs should not cause Block Device Mapping to be invalid :-)18:31
sjain_the two patches after that are already complete18:31
sjain_so I'm just waiting for these tests to pass18:32
lbragstadsjain_: sounds good18:32
lbragstadwe also need to migrate each of our libraries18:32
lbragstad#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/doc-migration-tracking18:32
lbragstadline 21018:32
bknudsonthere should be a way to skip tests if only the docs are changing.18:32
lbragstadbknudson: yeah - that'd quicken up the queue for sure18:33
sjain_oh is there any?18:33
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bknudsonI think other projects have something set up like that…18:34
bknudsonbut I've never looked into it myself.18:34
lbragstadi'm not sure we do for keystone specifically18:34
sjain_oh okay18:34
gagehugoI think we just run everything18:34
gagehugocould probably do that, would need to change the gates18:34
lbragstadfor the identity related libraries - i'll take a stab at keystoneauth and keystonemiddleware18:35
sjain_lbragstad: I'll look into migration of some libraries too18:35
lbragstadsjain_: do you want to take ldappool and pycadf?18:36
sjain_yup sure18:36
lbragstadsjain_: thank you18:36
sjain_no prob :)18:36
lbragstadi'll get that on my schedule or thursday18:36
lbragstadthey should hopefully go quick18:37
lbragstadsjain_: anything else doc related?18:37
sjain_no that would be all :)18:37
lbragstad#topic Office Hours18:37
*** openstack changes topic to "Office Hours (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:37
lbragstadjust a reminder that we have office hours today after the keystone meeting18:38
lbragstadfor those interested in attending18:38
lbragstadis anyone else planning on being available for it?18:38
hrybackilbragstad: it's almost 9 here and I need to go eat dinner =/18:39
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gagehugoI'll be available18:39
lbragstadhrybacki: no worries18:39
lbragstadgagehugo: ++18:39
lbragstadthat's all for the agenda18:40
lbragstad#topic open discussion18:40
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:40
lbragstadthe floor is open18:40
samueldmqlbragstad: I am around for reviews18:40
lbragstadsamueldmq: ++ good deal18:40
samueldmqfor the office hours18:40
samueldmqso anyone needing reviews for bug-related stuff, please feel free to ping me18:40
eanderssonHow about the deprecation of templated?18:40
eandersson*templated catalog18:40
eanderssonWas that discussed already?18:41
bknudsonFor some reason I thought the templated catalog was deprecated a while ago.18:41
lbragstadi thought so too18:41
bknudsonIt was never updated for v3 even.18:41
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lbragstad#link https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/0731dab01a5d2da9650b67ebe8b91e825795c0ba/keystone/catalog/backends/templated.py18:41
eanderssonThe v3 catalog code was in the base class for some reason18:42
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eanderssonI moved it into the templated class in this https://review.openstack.org/#/c/482364/18:42
samueldmqI wouldnt expect many people to use it in production, a quick note in the operators list + deprecation would be nice18:42
bknudsonsure, but it's still broken for v3 since there's info missing.18:42
eanderssonYea - for sure18:43
bknudsonendpoint IDs, I think.18:43
lbragstadwe should keep the interfaces in base.py, push sql stuff to sql.py and remove template.py all together18:44
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bknudsonpeople liked the templated backend since it should be faster.18:44
eanderssonIt's easiest to manage as well imo18:44
bknudson(maybe caching makes the sql backend as fast)18:44
lbragstadeandersson: are you opposed to fixing it versus removing it?18:44
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lbragstadbknudson: that's certainly a possibility if configured properly18:45
eanderssonEither one is fine for me18:45
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eanderssonWe use it, it works18:45
bknudsonmight be a good idea to bring it up to date for v3 (maybe use yaml)18:45
lbragstadok - that makes me lean towards keeping it and fixing it18:45
eanderssonbut yea - I like the yaml idea18:46
lbragstadi agree18:46
eanderssonWould be nice to backport a fix though18:46
bknudsonreally just need someone willing to do the work18:46
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lbragstadeandersson: backport https://review.openstack.org/#/c/482364/ ?18:47
eanderssonThat is the major issue with catalog templates18:47
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eanderssonBreaks basic services like Horizon18:47
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lbragstadeandersson: would you be able to open a bug for that?18:48
lbragstadthen we can discuss the possibility of a backport based on the proposed solution and document it there18:48
eanderssonSounds good18:49
lbragstadeandersson: awesome - thank you18:49
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lbragstaddoes anyone have anything else?18:49
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gagehugofeature freeze is july 28th right?18:49
lbragstad#link https://releases.openstack.org/pike/schedule.html18:50
lbragstadgagehugo: how's the project tag implementation coming along?18:51
lbragstadgagehugo: i need to review it soon18:51
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gagehugomaking progress, still needs more unit tests18:51
gagehugoI know ksc and osc work is going as well18:51
lbragstadgood deal18:52
lbragstadthe final release for client libraries is going to be that same week18:52
gagehugogood to know18:52
lbragstadalso - for those interested18:52
bknudsonI think oslo is next week.18:52
bknudsone.g. oslo.policy18:53
lbragstad#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-July/119465.html18:53
* morgan is lurking18:53
lbragstadfwiw - i have a PoC of global roles implemented locally18:54
lbragstadi'll be pushing that for review soon18:54
samueldmqlbragstad: nice18:54
samueldmqalready integrated with policy? used in other services?18:54
samueldmqor just keystone crud for now?18:54
lbragstadno - it's just the assignment bits18:54
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* samueldmq nods18:54
lbragstadi need to write another patch to implement the scoping parts18:55
samueldmqthat's a lot already :)18:55
samueldmqwill be nice to have a complete poc for the ptg18:55
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lbragstadthen it should be consumable18:55
lbragstadyeah - that's the goal18:55
lbragstadalrighty - anything else?18:56
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lbragstadthanks for coming!18:57
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"18:57
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jul 11 18:57:09 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:57
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-07-11-18.00.html18:57
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-07-11-18.00.txt18:57
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2017/keystone.2017-07-11-18.00.log.html18:57
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fungiinfra team, colligate!19:00
* fungi had fun with the thesaurus19:01
* clarkb looks up the word19:01
fungithis week we have action items assigned to and topics proposed by me, ianw, mordred, jeblair and clarkb19:01
fungisince we skipped last week, the agenda is a bit oversubscribed19:01
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* mordred waves19:01
fungisome of the general topics i added can hopefully be squeezed in quickly at the end19:01
fungior worst case carried over to next week as backlog if we can't knock them out via other discussions between now and then19:01
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* fungi grabs a glass of water before the #startmeeting19:02
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fungi#startmeeting infra19:03
openstackMeeting started Tue Jul 11 19:03:09 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:03
fungi#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting19:03
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fungi#topic Announcements19:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
fungi#info Many thanks to jlk (Jesse Keating) and tobiash (Tobias Henkel) for agreeing to take on core reviewer duties for zuul/nodepool and related repos!19:03
fungi#info Also belated thanks to larainema (Dong Ma) for a willingness to help with jenkins-job-builder core reviewer responsibilities!19:03
jeblair\o/  congrats!19:04
pabelangeryay people19:04
mordredwe should probably get jlk to join us in here ...19:04
fungimoar peoples19:04
tobiashthank you :)19:04
fungitobiash: don't thank me yet!19:04
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* mordred hands tobiash a lovely box of pies he found over in the corner19:05
fungithank you for the hard work and willingness to take on additional responsibility19:05
* Shrews needs additional reminders for this meeting. o/ all19:05
jeblairShrews: there's a meeting now19:05
* fungi scrounges around for some other annuoncements here19:05
* jeblair is helpful19:05
fungiannouncements too19:05
Shrewsjeblair: how timely! :)19:05
fungi#info Don't forget to register for the PTG if you're planning to attend19:05
fungi#link https://www.openstack.org/ptg/ PTG September 11-15 in Denver, CO, USA19:06
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fungi#info If you have something you want to present at the Summit, submit your abstract by Friday19:06
fungi#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-July/119494.html July 14 CFP Deadline - Sydney Summit19:06
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pabelangerThanks, still need to submit something19:06
fungias always, feel free to hit me up with announcements you want included in future meetings19:06
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fungi#topic Actions from last meeting19:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:07
fungi#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-06-27-19.03.html Minutes from last meeting19:07
fungiianw abandon pholio spec and shut down pholio.openstack.org server19:07
fungiianw mentioned he's on vacation this week, but he seems to have shutdown the server19:07
fungineed the spec abandoned still, so just readding that for when he returns19:07
fungi#action ianw abandon pholio spec19:07
fungifungi get details on current server models, presence of rails and switchport counts for infra-cloud19:08
fungii've put in a request to kevin coker, data center manager at hpe and am still waiting on some details19:08
fungihe confirmed at least that the mounting rails wouldn't fit the new racks we moved into and they didn't have any appropriate replacements on hand19:08
fungialso that due to lack of available storage space the unused mounting rails and original network switches were discarded19:08
fungii was able to find a fairly recent spreadsheet with the server models and some other details noted, which i've imported into a paste:19:08
pabelangerYa, I read up on that thread last night. Consider me available to help drive infracloud things if needed19:08
fungi#link http://paste.openstack.org/show/613968/ infra-cloud server hardware details19:09
fungikevin also assures me he should have the switch port/media type counts for me this week, _along_with_ photos of the back panels for everything so we can see it for ourselves19:09
fungithanks pabelanger! i'll make sure to lean on you for some of this once we have more concrete action items19:10
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fungireadding action item for the part i'm still waiting for...19:10
fungi#action fungi get switchport counts for infra-cloud19:10
fungialso can't really do the ml thread justice until i have that, so...19:10
fungi#action fungi start a ml thread about the infra-cloud rails and switching situation19:10
fungigoes back on the to do pile19:10
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fungi#topic Spec proposal: Ansible Puppet Apply is implemented (fungi)19:11
*** openstack changes topic to "Spec proposal: Ansible Puppet Apply is implemented (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:11
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/478610 "Ansible Puppet Apply is implemented" specs change19:11
fungiprobably not contentious, as per the commit message we already basically agreed to this cleanup during our june 6 meeting19:11
fungii just forgot to include it in the batch with the others19:11
fungi#info Council voting is open on the proposed "Ansible Puppet Apply is implemented" specs change until 19:00 UTC Thursday, July 1319:11
fungi#topic Spec proposal: Gerrit ContactStore Removal (fungi)19:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Spec proposal: Gerrit ContactStore Removal (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:12
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fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/479058 "Gerrit ContactStore Removal" specification19:12
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fungithis is something we've talked about for ages, but didn't have a good solution for vetting foundation membership of voters in technical elections until last month19:12
fungiand turns out it was an unexpected prerequisite for our upcoming gerrit upgrade too19:12
fungii'm already digging into the first work item19:12
fungithe foundation needs it for sane handling of contributor ptg registration discounts anyway19:12
fungiwhich they'll want me to send next week once extra-atcs are nailed down by the tc19:13
fungispec's been up for a couple weeks now and looks like it's had a few reviewers already19:13
fungihopefully straightforward, but any questions about this?19:13
* mordred is sure fungi will solve all the things19:13
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funginot really much to solve at this point19:14
clarkbit is necessary for gerrit upgrade beacuse gerrit 2.13 removed the contact store feature entirely19:14
clarkbbecause no one was using it19:14
fungii think 2.12 removed it actually, from what i could tell in their git history19:14
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jeblairsounds great, though i have to admit the way you worded the alternatives section really makes me want to propose a solution, but i'll try to restrain myself.  ;)19:14
fungiso basically we're running the last gerrit release to support the feature19:14
* jeblair likes a challenge19:14
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fungijeblair: yeah, i phoned the alternatives in. happy to entertain better phrasing or more options there ;)19:15
jeblairfungi: no i think it's great.  it's just "this is impossible" is like catnip for me19:15
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fungisure. i mean, i thought of several alternatives but none of them covered all the drawbacks19:16
jeblairi will look it over more carefully after meeting19:16
fungiany objections to putting it up for council vote between now and this time thursday?19:16
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jeblairsounds good19:17
fungi#info Council voting is open on the proposed "Gerrit ContactStore Removal" specification until 19:00 UTC Thursday, July 1319:17
fungialso, a follow-on topic...19:17
fungi#topic Spec proposal: Make Gerrit contactstore removal a priority (fungi)19:17
*** openstack changes topic to "Spec proposal: Make Gerrit contactstore removal a priority (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:17
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/479887 "Make Gerrit contactstore removal a priority" specs change19:18
fungias noted in the aforementioned spec itself, this is a hard dependency for the priority effort around our gerrit 2.13 upgrade19:18
fungiand so is probably also a transitive priority19:18
fungianyone disagree?19:18
jeblairsounds reasonable19:18
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clarkbya I think it has to be because transitive property of getting work done19:19
fungi#info Council voting is open on the proposed "Make Gerrit contactstore removal a priority" specs change until 19:00 UTC Thursday, July 1319:19
fungi#topic Priority Effort Zuul v3: OpenStack rollout discussion (mordred, jeblair)19:19
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Effort Zuul v3: OpenStack rollout discussion (mordred, jeblair) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:19
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fungi#link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/zuulv3.html "Zuul v3" specification19:19
fungiexciting news?19:19
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* jeblair looks at mordred to see if he should talk19:20
* mordred thinks about talking19:20
* mordred goes for it19:20
* jeblair relaxes somewhat in his chair19:21
mordredSO --- guess what? we're finally at "make plans to roll v3 out into production" time!!!19:21
fungii shuold have popped some popcorn19:21
jeblairi love laying plans the best.19:21
mordredthat doesn't mean we're done - but it does mean that enough unknown-unknowns are done that the finish line is reasonably in sight19:21
bkerojeblair: if you lay them will they still roll?19:21
mordredI made that etherpad with a proposal on a plan19:22
mordredif you don'twnat to read it - the summary is:19:22
mordreda) do some more stuff b) roll live at the denver PTG19:22
fungishould i link the etherpad?19:22
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mordredwith an asterisk in that there is still at least one thing we want to succeed at first before we commit to denver19:22
mordredo - yah19:22
mordredI stuck it on the iwki -- oh, no I didn't19:23
fungi#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zuulv3-migration Zuul v3 migration plan19:23
mordredI opened the wiki19:23
fungi's okay19:23
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mordredI *almost* linked it on the wiki19:23
fungia for effort19:23
mordredthere's a bit of a phased approach - adding a few more things over the next few weeks to exercise increasingly large amounts of our job content19:23
mordredwhile we work on making sure that we've got nice new shiny versions of the bulk of the jobs19:24
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mordredthere's no way we pre-translate all the jobs into shiny new versoins - but that's ok - we're currently running auto-translated versions, so we KNOW we can generate ugly versions19:24
* Shrews senses a hectic PTG with much alcoholz19:24
pabelangerShrews: ++19:25
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AJaegerbefore we do the merge over, what about encouring teams to retire dead repos? That means less jobs to move over and special case - and especially old jobs...19:25
clarkbwe should be careful not to impact other work going on at the ptg too19:25
fungiyeah, any cleanup people want to work on between now and then reduces the scope of work somewhat19:25
jeblairclarkb: yeah, that's a special concern19:25
clarkbeveryone else there is going to be writing and pushing lots of code and if they all of a sudden can't get CI or merge things that may be sadness19:25
mordredAJaeger: well - it shouldn't matter too much - we should have a script to auto-migrate jobs that are in zuul now - so if dead repos have some ugly jobs, it's not the WORST thing - but yeah, people cleaning their bedroom isn't a terrible idea19:26
mordredclarkb: yup. totally. I do not think we should go for it if we do not hav ea high degree of confidence19:26
jeblairclarkb: i think the thinking is that there's actually a lot of planning going on.  and while there's some coding, it's not central to why people are there, and things are actually a little quieter than normal.19:26
fungithe plan laid out there includes a lot of testing including scale testing19:26
clarkbjeblair: I'm not sure thats what we saw in atlanta at least. Maybe to a degree but not quite like we had with the old summit format where no coding happened19:27
clarkb(the rooms I sat in on involved tons of coding work)19:27
mordredyah - and also - our worst-case scenario is that we have 'ugly' copies of the current jobs19:27
fungiso i believe if we stick to the plan, either we'll have strong confidence that we can avoid causing undue disruption to the ptg _or_ well postpone the cut-over19:27
jeblairfungi: yeah, that sounds reasonable19:28
mordredso actually executing them really shouldn't be a change in behavior- I do not think we should auto-translate any jobs to newly structured jobs if we're iffy on the success - an auto-translated devstack-gate job that's a copy of the current script is better than an attempt at a nicer thing that doens't work19:28
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mordredjeblair: ++19:28
mordredfungi: ++19:28
fungi++ all around19:28
Shrewsmordred: maybe we should move up the shade conversion to our dev system so we can shake out any MAJOR kinks ahead of time? would there be anything preventing us from doing that?19:29
mordredthat said- I do expect a lot of questions about how to make changes - which is why I think the PTG will be a good venue, since folks can find us and get face time19:29
Shrews(being the 1st victim, it might be helpful to do that)19:29
mordredShrews: yes - that should be on the list reasonably early-ish19:29
mordredShrews: since shade exercises devstack-gate pretty extensively19:29
fungiyeah, looks like shade and devstack-gate are the next repos to add which aren't job definition repos, per "the plan"19:30
pabelangermordred: does this mean we are ready to start adding more projects to zuulv3.o.o today? If said projects want to start experimenting?19:30
jeblairso are we comfortable with 'light' impact to operations at the ptg?  like, if some projects have some trouble, or we have a few unexpected zuul restarts for bugfixes at the ptg, is that okay?19:30
mordredpabelanger: no - I dont think so19:30
mordredpabelanger: I think we still want to keep it constrained for now so that we know what we're debugging if we need to debug19:30
pabelangermordred: ack19:30
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clarkbjeblair: ya I think light impact is ok. If expectation is nothing will work for 3 days that wouldn't be ok19:31
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mordredclarkb: ++19:31
clarkbbut "we might restart your jobs a few times tomorrow" or "some jobs might get lost during lunch" is doable19:31
AJaegerfungi, what about having a session early at the PTG "Zuul v3 - the new way of running jobs" ?19:31
fungijeblair: i'd be comfortable with disruption which causes delays testing changes by an hour here or there, but having testing dead in the water for long stretches risks people coming to the infra room, lart-in-hand19:31
jeblairok.  we can keep that in mind when we're making go/nogo decisions, and in our communications with the dev community so they know what to expect.19:32
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mordredAJaeger: I think that's actually a great idea19:32
Shrewsmy worry is suddenly throwing a whole lot of work to the system that's only seen relatively light work19:32
mordredAJaeger: "so we just made a big change, here are some things you might want to know"19:32
AJaegermordred: exactly...19:32
pabelangerAJaeger: Ya, I was considering doing a talk about that at the summit, PTG might actually be better19:32
fungiAJaeger: you're predicting an upcoming meeting topic ;)19:32
mordredShrews: yah - I think we definitely want to ramp up the load considerably before throwing the switch19:32
AJaegerpabelanger: both :)19:32
jeblairmordred, Shrews: we can silently shadow production to generate load19:33
mordredjeblair: ++19:33
Shrewsjeblair: yeah, good idea19:33
pabelangerya, increasing load is something I'd love to see too19:33
fungiShrews: scale testing is included in "the plan" too19:33
fungiwell, maybe not completely19:33
mordredit is - but I think that's a different kind we should note19:33
fungiwe have "Test config reading/restarting on all 2k repos"19:33
jeblairyeah, the "load configuration from 2k git repos" is something i'm particularly interested in.  :)19:33
fungiso yes, maybe running lots of jobs isn't in there yet19:33
mordredlet's add that ...19:34
jeblairthat's something we've never done before, though running lots of jobs is.19:34
pabelangernodepool, give me 2k nodes for my job :D19:34
jeblair(so if we run into problems with running lots of jobs, we have some experience with that.  if we run into a problem with config loading/parsing, we're going to need to be more creative)19:34
fungiwe could plan a soft outage of zuul v2 some friday where we coopt our aggregate quota for zuul v3 load testing i guess19:35
mordredk. added to etherpad19:35
jeblairfungi: oh that's a good idea19:35
fungii would want to see a very clear test plan leading into that sort of window though, so we don't waste the relatively little bit of time we set aside for it19:35
jeblair(nb: we should be saying load configuration from 6k branches, not 2k repos)19:36
fungilike, at least knowing which scenarios we want to trst and having the sequence and hopefully commands lined up in advance19:36
mordredjeblair: good point19:36
jeblairfungi: ++.  it'll probably have to come after we have some of the bulk config generation done.19:36
fungiit'll likely be pretty close up against the ptg19:37
mordredwe might come up with some clever ways to test things between now and then too19:37
fungidepending on how fast the rest of this goes19:37
jeblairrealistically, yeah.19:37
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jeblairone thing i just realized we don't have on here is docs19:38
jeblairof course, we've just landed some major docs changes so zuulv3 actually *has* docs19:38
jeblairwe know we want to improve them19:38
jeblairbut also, we should start talking about what kind of docs we need to write for the openstack dev audience19:38
jeblairlike "so you jjb your openstack job now -- here's what you need to know"19:38
jeblairthings like what we would talk about at the ptg, but we'll want written as well19:39
fungi#agreed We're shooting for production migration to Zuul v3 immediately prior to (or possibly during) the Queens PTG in Denver, week of September 1119:39
fungi^ yeah?19:39
clarkbwe probably also need some sort of message to prevent the chef/puppet/salt/!ansible crowd from revolting19:39
clarkbas far as dev docs go (since there are strong feelings in that space)19:39
jeblairclarkb: yeah, we should start working a communications plan into this as well19:39
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mordredclarkb: indeed. in fact - it's probably worth adding to the list getting some jobs done for a few non-ansible repos19:40
fungilet's hold ptg-specific discussions for the separate meeting topic i've set aside19:40
jeblairmordred: ++19:40
mordredlike maybe the infra puppet repos - so we can hav ea thing to point to19:40
mordred"look, this is what driving puppet looks like"19:40
fungiwe use puppet for a lot of our infrastructure, so adding that makes sense anyway19:41
mordredclarkb: do we still have active salt and chef teams? I thought we were down to puppet, ansible and juju at this point?19:41
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clarkbmordred: I don't think we have salt but we do have chef19:41
clarkband now also have things like helm and friends19:41
jeblairmordred: i'm taking some quick notes at the top of the etherpad for things to add to it.  i have docs, communication plan, puppet jobs19:41
mordredjeblair: cool19:42
fungifocusing examples on technologies our community infrastructure is actively relying on makes sense, and shouldn't be seen as "playing favorites" hopefully19:42
mordredI mean- their jobs have been run with ansible for the last year - so hopefully it's not 100% shocking19:42
mordredbut yes19:42
jeblairmordred: that's a great way to introduce it19:42
mordredthe intent is certainly not to remove anyone's ability to do non-ansible things - in fact, we would hope it'll empower them to do more stuff19:43
clarkbI think a lot of the anti ansible sentiment out there has to do explicitly with the lagnuage used. Its pretty terrible (wee yaml as code). So having examples that don't force you to write a ton of ansibly ansible may be good19:43
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clarkbsimilar thing with puppet if you were to try and run jobs with puppet. The DSL makes a lot of people mad19:43
mordredclarkb: yup. agree - and should be easy to do19:43
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mordredluckily "just do this giant block of shell script" totally works19:44
clarkbcommunicating that ^ is an option is likely what we want to do here19:44
clarkbwhile also saying if you like ansible go to town19:44
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mordredthere's also an important audience split19:45
jeblairand we'll have a large library of friendly base jobs to build on19:45
fungiexamples of shell scripts in yaml blocks should look pretty familiar to people who have written jjb configs anyway19:45
mordredwhich is that for many of the base jobs people will build on top of - we as infra/zuul people will be writing ansible things19:45
mordredbut that doesn't mean that people writing job content for their project need to19:45
mordredit can be easy to miss that distinction - and important that we make it clearly for folks19:45
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fungianything else we need to iron out for this during the meeting, or should i try to get to some more of the agenda in the next 13 minutes?19:46
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mordredgood from my end!19:47
fungithanks! and this is awesome, in case i haven't said so enough already19:47
fungi#topic Priority Effort Gerrit 2.13 Upgrade: Status update (clarkb)19:47
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Effort Gerrit 2.13 Upgrade: Status update (clarkb) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:47
fungi#link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/gerrit-2.13.html "Gerrit 2.13 Upgrade" specification19:47
clarkbI just upgraded review-dev to this morning. This has the latest gerrit 2.13 release from last week wtih our mysql fix and the fix poitned to us by wikimedia foundation for account lookups against the cache.19:48
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clarkbI expect that unless we find other bugs this is the version we will deploy to production because gerrit isn't supposed to release any more 2.13 releases19:48
fungialso puppet/ansible is enabled again for review-dev (also mentioned in the infra status log)19:49
clarkbtopic:gerrit-upgrade has a chnage up to fix one upgrade sequence thing I ran into today. Reviews on that would be good. But next step is largely going to be testing19:49
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clarkbplease go use review-dev for common tasks that you have. gertty, ui code review,s pushing code, api queries, whatever19:49
jeblairbtw, are folks okay with tobiash's fix for the case sensitive label thing in zuul?19:49
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clarkbseparately I hope to get up a noopy zuul instance to ensure that things are working there. ^ is related19:50
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jeblairhttps://review.openstack.org/469946 and child19:50
fungijeblair: i have it on the gerrit testing etherpad19:50
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fungidunno if anybody's tried to confirm it on review-dev yet19:50
tobiashwill 2.13 upgrade be before or after zuulv3 rollout?19:50
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jeblairi don't have a better alternative.  but if anyone has any bright ideas, now would be a good time.19:51
mordredis it worth also pointing the v3 at review-dev too?19:51
fungitobiash: hard to say19:51
clarkbI've already fixed a small number of issues that I have found with comment links. Gerrit changed urls just for fun19:51
mordredclarkb: oh goodie19:51
clarkbmordred: tobiash ya we may want to test both a v2.5 and a v3 zuul just to have options19:51
jeblairif before, i reckon we will need to backport?19:51
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jeblairthe actual fix should be easy to backport.  the tests, less so :(19:52
tobiashI could try if I have spare time next week19:52
clarkbtobiash: that would be great19:53
clarkbso ya go out and use it real quick to make sure your workflows work19:53
mordredtobiash: a workaround is making sure the events are listed in lower-case in the zuul config, right?19:53
clarkband I will attempt to get zuul tested against it19:53
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tobiashmordred: nope that doesn't work19:53
mordredah. AWESOME19:53
fungiand feel free to point a test zuul at review-dev and trigger stuff there19:53
tobiashthat was my first try to solve this with 2.1319:53
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tobiashzuul (gate) then sends the lowercased label together with submit to gerrit resulting in a +2d but not submitted change :(19:55
mordredoh. that truly is fantastic19:56
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fungianything else we want to cover on the gerrit upgrade status?19:56
fungi#topic PTG planning (fungi)19:57
*** openstack changes topic to "PTG planning (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:57
fungi#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/infra-ptg-queens Infra planning pad for Queens PTG in Denver19:57
fungijust kicking off the async brainstorming process here...19:57
fungiadd your ideas on the pad19:57
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fungii suppose starting with the zuul v3 stuff we just discussed a few minutes ago ;)19:58
jeblairdoes the ptg have a facility for having some kind of session of general interest?19:58
jeblairlike, can we fit something into the venue/schedule requirements?19:58
fungiyes, the format this time has evolved a bit19:58
ttxthere will be reservable discussion room(s)19:58
fungii've slotted all five days for us, for starters19:58
fungiand the first two days are intended more for general cross-project/community outreach19:59
fungilike we can do "office hours" inservice type things19:59
jeblaircool, so we can have a big zuulv3 session the first day, then have consultations as needed19:59
fungibut as ttx mentions there are also separate rooms we can schedule19:59
pabelangerjeblair: ++19:59
jeblairand maybe even a repeat for folks that miss the first big one19:59
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fungiand the ptgbot also comes into play where we can announce what we're doing in a more discoverable way19:59
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fungiplus we still have the ethercalc for scheduling things further in advance20:00
fungianyway, we're out of time20:00
fungiand there's a tc meeting20:00
jeblair#thanks ptgbot :)20:00
fungithanks everyone!20:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jul 11 20:00:26 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-07-11-19.03.html20:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-07-11-19.03.txt20:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2017/infra.2017-07-11-19.03.log.html20:00
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* fungi is still here20:00
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fungilooking forward to goalspeak20:01
ttxcdent, dhellmann, dims, dtroyer, johnthetubaguy, mordred, stevemar: around ?20:01
ttxsdague is excused20:01
dimsttx o/20:01
* flaper87 swaps fungi's PTL hat with a TC hat20:01
ttx#startmeeting tc20:01
* flaper87 is sure fungi didn't notice20:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Jul 11 20:01:33 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"20:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'20:01
ttxHi everyone!20:01
* rockyg grabs a box pof popcoren for the show20:01
ttxOur agenda for today is at:20:02
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee20:02
ttxRemember that you can all use #info #idea and #link to help build a more readable summary20:02
ttxTwo topics to discuss today20:02
ttx#topic Final selection of Queens goals20:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Final selection of Queens goals (Meeting topic: tc)"20:02
ttxLet's start wit hthe less open-ended one20:02
ttxwe have a proposed set of goals:20:02
ttx* Split Tempest plugins (already approved)20:02
ttx* Policy and docs in code: https://review.openstack.org/46995420:02
ttxIn the ML thread champions volunteered to drive those:20:03
ttx- Chandan Kumar for split-tempest-plugins20:03
ttx- lbragstad for policy-in-code20:03
ttxAre there objections to those being our two Queens goals ?20:03
* mordred welcomes our new Queens goals overlords20:03
ttxIf not I'll approve 469954 and the two follow-ups, then abandon the others until they can be re-proposed20:03
dimsno objections20:03
ttxI'll submit a follow-up change to add the champion names to those, if approved20:03
smcginnisThey seem enough to try to tackle.20:04
* flaper87 gives our new Queens goals overlords a standing ovation20:04
ttxI was wondering if mtreinish or sdague would shadow Chandan and make sure he is successful20:04
EmilienMno objection20:04
dhellmannyes, I was just thinking along the same lines, ttx20:04
ttxSince those are our first champions, I don't want to drop him in the dark. That said very happy to see new leaders emerging20:04
dhellmannlet's help them actually emerge :-)20:05
cdentI’m fine with the goals. I stil think that tempest’s asserition that some projects are more equal than others is a problem, especially in the context of the goal, but I don’t want to stop progress because of that20:05
* dims visualizes a butterfly20:05
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dhellmanncdent ++20:05
* edleafe wanders in late20:05
* mordred is happy to provide grumpy old man services to Chandan or lbragstad as needed20:05
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lbragstadmordred: :)20:06
ttxalright then. I'll clean everything up tomorrow20:06
ttxthingee: if you have comments/objections please let me know20:06
dimslbragstad, Chandan, i can make some time to help if you need20:06
fungii still think that tempest is getting unfairly painted as giving preference to projects which just happen to still have their tests in the tempest tree (interop/refstack tests aside)20:06
lbragstaddims: thank you20:06
ttxChandan is chandankumar on irc20:07
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ttx(present in #openstack-qa at least)20:07
EmilienM(note he's in India and offline at this time)20:07
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* flaper87 knows chandankumar, he's an awesome human20:07
flaper87also, what EmilienM said20:07
mtreinishttx: I can probably shadow him if needed20:07
flaper87mtreinish: ++20:08
mtreinishI was gonna watch that goal pretty closely anyway20:08
ttx#info ttx to approve policy-in-code early tomorrow and clean up other proposals, and approve subsequent typo patches, and propose a change adding champion names20:08
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EmilienMmtreinish: thanks20:08
* mtreinish might have a vested interest in it20:08
flaper87mtreinish: u think? :P20:08
ttx#topic TC 2019 vision next step20:08
*** openstack changes topic to "TC 2019 vision next step (Meeting topic: tc)"20:08
fungialso, the in-tree tempest tests are orthogonal to the plugins issue. most of the tempest plugins are coming from repos with stable branches, which is the crux of the problem. tempest is branchless and so therefore are its in-tree tests20:08
ttxOK, now the big piece20:08
ttxfungi: ++20:08
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ttxWe have three subsequent stages of drafting up for review:20:09
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/45326220:09
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/473620/20:09
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/482152/20:09
ttxThe question is, what's the next step ?20:09
ttxWith a short horizon for this vision (2019) I feel like we should approve it soon rather than wait for end of year and be too close20:09
cdentIs johnthetubaguy here?20:09
ttxUnfortunately has a concert tonight20:10
flaper87can we just merge #1 in #2 and just merge things?20:10
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dhellmannI think we should land all of these patches and continue to refine the language if we need to. eglynn's comments about applicability aside, this is what we wrote at a point in time, and we expect to write new visions as we move ahead.20:10
flaper87I'm happy with the current version, fwiw20:10
cdentOkay, in that case I can explain why things are structured like that, and also related some john’s concerns.20:10
ttxflaper87: I think they are subsequent patches, so we can approve them all20:10
EmilienMI think we've done enough iterations to have a first text in place, and we can keep iterating on it later20:10
EmilienMdhellmann: yes20:10
flaper87ttx: yeah, I was more worried about the -1 in the first patch but what dhellmann said makes sense to me20:10
cdentdtroyer, johnthetubaguy and I decided we wanted to present a second draft as a second change to keep it clear from the initial feedback, and have an evident diff20:10
dhellmannI also don't think we want to refine this to perfection. It's meant to be a guide.20:11
cdentthe third change is just typos on the second20:11
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flaper87cdent: ++20:11
ttxYeah, it's not policy20:11
smcginnisI think it would be good to merge them, then iterate as we go as needed.20:11
ttxnotr governance20:11
ttxit's vision. It doesn't have to be perfect20:11
cdentI agree that merging would be good/nice20:11
ttxIt's not a contract20:11
smcginnisIf we had perfect vision, we wouldn't all need to be here.20:11
flaper87I guess we should all also vote on the first draft and let the merging countdown begin20:11
cdentJohn raised some concerns that since the version was written before the latest reality check that it may be perceived as even more out of line with reality than it was at first (by some respondents)20:12
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ttxIf you agree to merge them, please pile up +1 votes on the review. I can announce a "will merge in 3 days" on the next TC status update20:12
dhellmanncdent : there's a date on it, right?20:12
persiaIf the consensus is that vision is not to be perfect, it is worth asserting that the TC will review the vision every cycle, or some similar language as a resolution.20:12
ttxon the reviews* I mean20:12
cdentbut said “doing the process again woul be wasteful” (paraphrase)20:12
dhellmanncdent : maybe we can add a date in the title to address that20:12
rockygpersia, ++20:12
cdentdhellmann: that feels like a good idea20:12
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ttxYes, it should have a date anyway20:13
dims++ cdent dhellmann20:13
ttxAnd be filed as a resolution20:13
dhellmannit has a "for" date but not an "on" date20:13
cdenti like the idea of promising a regular review20:13
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flaper87cdent: johnthetubaguy thanks for working on this20:13
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ttxI would say revision after each election20:13
dhellmannI'll submit that one20:13
ttxdhellmann: I think it should be a resolution rather than a reference doc20:14
ttxthat way it's dated20:14
ttxand not a living document20:14
fungiwell, the normal expectation for this vision pattern seems to be that it's reviewed at its expiration date and superseded by a new vision, but i guess there's nothing stopping us doing an intermediate vision course correction if we have the time20:14
ttxand we can post new versions of it20:14
dhellmannttx: good point. Shall I move the file around?20:14
ttxdhellmann: I think that would be a good idea20:14
persiafungi: And nothing wrong with a future TC rubber-stamping it if they wish to do so.20:14
dhellmannok, let me do that quickly20:14
ttx(and add date to it)20:14
fungii agree that as it's a vision of the people who were in office at the time it was drafted, revising after each election makes some sense too20:14
dimsyep fungi20:15
ttxIf a future TC feels like teh old vision is off, they can produce a new one20:15
rockyg++ fungi20:15
flaper87ttx: indeed20:15
ttxI don't think they HAVE TO revise it, but they sure should have that option20:15
ttxby publishign a new resolution20:15
flaper87I like the idea of revisiting the vision on every election. It should help bringing new TC members up-to-speed too20:15
fungias with any of our governance documents really20:15
smcginnisflaper87: Good way to make sure the vision is kept in sight.20:16
flaper87smcginnis: right20:16
ttxOK, so if I summarize...20:16
fungii do wonder whether spending a couple days together every cycle dedicated solely to vision drafting is the best use of the tc's time, but am open to convincing20:16
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fungia more lightweight process might be called for20:17
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ttx- Add the date, and a blurb about next TC having the option to revisit it and publish their own corrected vision if needed20:17
smcginnisfungi: That may be overkill, but spending at least a meeting time block to check in would be good.20:17
persiafungi: I would argue that it is usually *not* a good use of time, excepting when it is. and that a future TC is better placed to decide when that time happens.20:17
ttx- Make it a resolution rather than a reference doc20:17
ttx(that way it will have a date since all resolutions are dated20:18
mordredyah- I think the future tc doing a rubber stamp - unless the new tc is now strongly opposed at which point time needs to be spent, yeah?20:18
dhellmannttx: https://review.openstack.org/482686 moves the vision doc20:18
ttxdid I miss something20:18
mordredttx: ++20:18
fungipersia: fair point. no decision we make about this is binding for a future tc makeup (or even on the current tc roster)20:18
ttxmordred: they should definitely look at the last vision and check if they feel it's completely off20:18
smcginnisttx: That looks like a good summary from my understanding.20:18
cdent(thanks dhellmann )20:18
mordredttx: ++20:18
ttxoff enough to jutify them going through the process of replacing it20:18
dhellmannoh, I missed the bit about adding a blurb20:18
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mordredttx: but they shodl not feel compelled to change it just because20:19
dhellmanndo we really need to say that? isn't everything up for revision by future tcs?20:19
ttxdhellmann: fair point20:19
mordredsaying "yes, this is still the vision" is a fine thing - and actually the preferred thing unless there is a problem or clarification, yeah?20:19
persiadhellmann: They may not remember that.  Precedence is a powerful thing.20:19
fungidhellmann: which was why i said "as with any of our governance documents really"20:19
cdentdhellmann: I think the reason for doing it, if we want to, is to make it clear that we _encourage_ revision20:19
cdentand at least some of the people here this evening (me, flaper87 , ?) want that20:19
dhellmannI think you're all over thinking this, but ok.20:19
flaper87cdent: ++20:19
ttxdhellmann: maybe just say "this is the vision of the TC from that date. Future TCs may publish new visions for the future.20:19
dhellmanngive me words to use20:19
rockygcdent, ==20:20
fungii'm cool with that phrasing20:20
mordredcdent: I want to encourage revisoin, as long as we dont' encourage revision so stronlgy that a future tc feels compelled to revise to show they're doing their job20:20
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mordredttx: ++20:20
persiamordred: ++20:20
dimsagree mordred20:20
rockygmordred, ++20:20
ttxI don't thgink we should change the vision every 6 months. Every two years we definitely should. Truth probably lies between those two extremes20:20
mordredttx: ++20:20
flaper87ttx: yup20:21
cdentmordred: fair point, but I’d argue that if we’re not changing the vision at least once a year, we’re not paying enough attention to the world around us20:21
cdentit’s not a mission20:21
edleafeif in the future something about it doesn't seem to fit, someone should bring that up and propose an update20:21
mordredminor course corrections as we learn thing are likely quite frequent20:21
cdentit’s a vision20:21
mordredcdent: well - we may be quibbling over the word "change" :)20:21
cdentbut yeah, it doesn’t need to be heavyweight, or required, or onerous, or ….20:21
ttxcdent: from the zingerman's experience you have to keep the vision for "some time"20:21
ttxenough to be able to judge your ability to reach those goals20:21
ttxbasically We shouldn't replace it because it starts to be late or anything. We should replace it when it's no longer a good vision20:22
ttxIt's ok to get to 2019 and fail to deliver on some20:22
flaper87ok, let's move this forward and also learn from the experience. I think it's fair to encourage revision but not force it to avoid (as mordred pointed out) encouraging the wrong behavior20:22
flaper87we're not going to get everything right this time around20:22
mordredgolly no20:22
ttxIt's not OK to get to 2019 and chase goals that we no longer think are good20:22
mordredflaper87: :)20:22
dimsthis is the first, so let's roll the dice :)20:22
cdenthaving not had the pleasure of doing the zingerman thing, my attitude towards this thing is mostly as reader from the communit, so take my input with that grain of salt20:22
flaper87mordred: :D20:23
mordredcdent: I think that input is hugely helpful, since _most_ of the folks in openstack haven't been to ann arbor20:23
EmilienMflaper87: well, said, let's move forward now20:23
edleafeflaper87: even if you get everything right today, it may not be right next year20:23
* mordred starts floating20:23
ttxanyway, I think creating a new vision is enough work to deter casual changing of the vision20:24
flaper87edleafe: prolly right but that's too deep of a thought for my poor, night mode, brain :P20:24
dhellmannI have to drop off -- if you need more changes to that patch, someone please take it over20:24
edleafeflaper87: :)20:24
fungithanks dhellmann!20:24
ttxOK, I think we have a way forward. Merge early, stamp it as our vision at this date.20:24
flaper87dhellmann: ++20:24
flaper87ttx: deal20:24
ttxBecause frankly, we are already using that vision in our decisions right now20:24
EmilienMdhellmann: thanks20:24
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ttxso there is little point in holding it up20:25
ttxAnything else on that topic before we move on to open discussion ?20:25
dimsSo do the minimal changes needed and get it out right? who has the pen ttx ?20:25
cdentttx: yes, as far as I can tell there has been a very positive reaction to the constellation idea, and lots of positivity around other stuff too20:25
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ttxdims: a patch from dhellmann, votes from TC members on all the patch chain20:26
ttxthen I'll announce the 3-day merge warning20:26
dimssounds like a plan20:26
ttx#topic Open discussion20:27
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)"20:27
ttxWe've been looking for election officials to handle the PTL election20:27
ttxWe have two volunteers currently: persia and diablo_rojo20:27
ttxany objection to them running the show ?20:27
dimsthanks persia and diablo_rojo20:27
ttx(Most of the other usual suspects may run for PTLship)20:27
smcginnisNone from me.20:27
ttxHow do you think our effort to rely less on meetings is going ?20:28
ttxFeels like office hours have low attendance, but I feel like having designated time slots still helps20:28
cdentI think it is good for us, but potentially bad for the community20:28
ttxcdent: expand?20:28
smcginnisOffice hours seem to be picking up activity lately.20:28
EmilienMno objection at all, thanks a lot20:28
cdentI think we are disconnected somehow, I’m not sure I can put my finger on it.20:29
cdentBut if office hours pick up, it might be okay.20:29
ttxLess outside participation on office hours than on meetings ?20:29
cdentI certainly like the fact that for me, at least, having office hours means I’m talking to the rest of you more often20:29
EmilienMttx: low attendance on which side? I saw most of TC members around (if not all)20:29
fungipersia: diablo_rojo: thanks for volunteering. get up with me if you have any questions on the tooling (and i'll be syncing up with you anyway on some development work i've got underway for it this week)20:29
ttxLike rockyg attendingt every meeting but none of the office hours ?20:29
dimsEmilienM : i have been lax attending them so far20:29
cdentbut I’m not feeling observed/participated by/with the community.20:29
cmurphyfwiw i usually follow the office hours discussions20:29
* edleafe is in the same boat as rockyg 20:30
ttxedleafe, rockyg: do you know when the office hours are ?20:30
fungi*reminder* office hours at 01:00 (in roughly 3.5 hours)20:30
ttx(this is a test)20:30
fungiheh, oops20:30
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fungii blew that test, sorry :/20:30
persiacdent: Some of us are observing you.20:30
rockygI don't have great IRC access, so meetings are currently on my calendar, but I haven't gotten the office hours on yet.20:30
persiafungi: Thanks.20:30
cdentpersia: creepy?20:31
edleafettx: nope. I should have written them down somewhere. :(20:31
ttxI wish office hours were more "ask TC anything" rather than cocktail hour between us, but that may happen in the future :)20:31
jeblairttx: i've been regularly missing office hours because i'm bad at whatever skills are required in showing up at them20:31
dimsttx : could do we do a ping list for the office hours too?20:31
EmilienM#link https://governance.openstack.org/tc/#office-hours20:31
edleafeand 0100 UTC is not when I'm near a compute20:31
fungii will say, our 01:00-02:00 wednesday office hour seems to be very under-attended even by the tc. most weeks it's been just me, though dtroyer showed up for one20:31
rockygI am reading the summaries from both cdent and ttx, and following the office hours announcements, but....20:31
ttxdims: we could20:31
jeblairttx: but i found the retroactive "we had an important discussion" announcement you did *very* useful20:31
edleafeor even a computer20:31
jeblairttx: so please keep doing those as warranted :)20:32
diablo_rojofungi, sounds good :)20:32
ttxI feel like between teh new status tracking system / weekly updates + office hours + occasional meetings we make good progress20:32
rockygjeblair, ++20:32
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dimscdent : ttx : many many thanks for the summaries20:33
ttxI won't hide that it's a bit of work for the chair to keep track of everything (rather than rely on that hour in the week to sync) but worth it imho20:33
fungithe 09:00-10:00 tuesday office hour seems to be the most active, which i'm usually asleep during20:33
ttxIt's becauise europeans are so cool20:33
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jeblair(the especially weird thing about that was that i was sitting at a terminal eating a bowl of cereal during that discussion unaware it was going on, then saw the email, then read the backscroll, then everyone was gone and i had an empty bowl)20:34
rockygI think that's a good sign of the other parts of the world wanting to participate20:34
ttxOnce flaper87 gets rid of the meeting channel check in irc-meetings, we'll be able to add them to the meeting calendar20:34
dimsjeblair : LOL20:34
ttxmight increase visibility20:34
fungiif i didn't feel compelled to be up for the 01:00 the "same day" (from my waking hours perspective) i might try to be awake for the 09:00 one20:34
ttxI also dropped pointers to the office hours all over the Project Team Guide20:34
ttxwhich I hope everyone reads of course20:34
EmilienMjeblair: valid use case :)20:34
fungibut staking awake from 09:00-02:00 utc for me once a week is a little bit of a stretch20:34
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ttxThe wednesday morning one is for reaching out to China/APAC20:35
ttxIt's under-attended because we have a lot of work to do on raising leaders there20:35
dimsso, have folks read the diversity report yet? http://superuser.openstack.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/OpenStack-Gender-Diversity-Report_Apr2017.pdf20:35
ttxA lot of us did, yes20:36
ttxSome good insights, although the contributor data looks questionable20:36
persiaWould it be worth moving one of the 9:00 and 2:00 so that they are not on adjacent days?20:36
fungidims: yeah, it got discussed at length in #openstack-tc20:36
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ttxpersia: that was suggested yes20:36
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ttxWe accept patches20:36
fungipersia: yeah, that was an early suggestion of mine when going over the final scheduling20:36
fungibut the counterargument was that i should just avoid trying to be awake for all three office hours and not worry about it20:37
smcginnisYeah, for me spreading out days won't make a difference for a bad time slot.20:38
ttxI'm fine with considering another layout, as long as we manage to reach the three TZs sometimes in the week where people in those TZ actually work :)20:38
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ttxwhich generally means targeting Tue-Thu20:38
fungithere are at least several of us on the current tc lineup for whom the tuesday slot is 5am local and the wednesday slot is 9pm tuesday local20:39
fungiso attending both isn't a stretch if they didn't fall within 24 hours of one another20:39
rockygSo, you could move the APAC to a Monday timeslot.20:39
rockygTheir Tuesday is mostly the NA Monday20:40
ttxLike Tuesday 1:00utc ?20:40
EmilienMfungi: 2am local now :D20:40
ttxwe can certainly move the 9am one to Wednesday to spread them out20:41
rockygWell, maybe I take that back.  China is +820:41
fungiEmilienM: yeah, but dims, dhellmann and i are still in the eastern usa timezone20:41
cdentmaybe we should instead of trying to find a good slot for westeners to be in chinese time we should try harder to create some chinese tc members?20:42
funginot that i'm going to pretend to know whether those timeslots are as convenient for them as they are for me20:42
EmilienMfungi: right, I think 5am is also too early20:42
ttxAnother topic to quickly discuss: we have two items on our "Top 5 help wanted list". While I think we don't have to allocate every single spot, there is room for a few more if you see critical areas20:42
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ttxThis list will be heavily promoted in an effort to get contributors20:43
mordredcdent: I think the worry is that if we can't start by finding a good slot shared by western and chinese fokls it will be hard to develop chinese tc members20:43
ttx(in OpenSTack Days, in Summit keynotes, at Board meetings...)20:43
EmilienMttx: I thought about it and I think we already have 2 things, it would be great to not having too much areas and focus on the 2 for now20:43
cdent(another potential topic before we close, if want to go there, is glance/glare)20:43
cdentmordred: yes, I know, I was sort of being snarky.20:43
fungicdent: the goal of having a known time for north americans to be around while apac tz'ers are awake is to encourage adding more apac tc members20:43
mordredcdent: :)20:43
ttxEmilienM: sure, I just don't want people to hold up or anything20:43
ttxIf you see an area needs urgent help, don't be shy20:44
mordredcdent: glance/glare I think has some specific technical questions pending before it's actionable20:44
mordredcdent: there is an assertion that needs to be backed up20:44
cdentthat’s just it, I think we’ve kicked that assertion dead20:44
mordredwhich I _think_ is going to spur an excellent discussion20:44
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fungi(well, and south american community members too; we don't have any of them on the tc either)20:44
EmilienMttx: we could have proposals at any time I guess, but maybe we could keep the list of active areas "short"20:44
dimsmordred : REST API equivalence and data migration path?20:44
ttxglance/glare... probably the topic for our next "occasional" meeting20:44
mordreddims: api equiv - I think he claims data migration path is the easy part20:44
mordredand I _think_ it should be easy to do api equiv20:44
ttxAt this stage the thread is still evolving and useful to raise the right issues20:44
mordredfrom looking at it20:45
ttxso not stuck yet20:45
mordredit just needs to be declared important and then done20:45
smcginnismordred: But not there yet, from my understanding.20:45
ttxI think the critical point is the defcore stuff20:45
mordredsmcginnis: yah20:45
dimsttx : are we saying that they can be under governance only IF they are able to do this?20:45
ttxWe don't have a mechanism to replace something that is in the defcore set20:45
mordredI'm not - but it would certainly help if we had one and only one project that did images20:45
ttxthat goes beyond us20:46
mordredsince we're having issues staffing the one we have20:46
fungii would suggest that we shouldn't be encouraging competing implementations of something we also insist needs to be cross-deployment interoperable20:46
ttxdims: doing what ?20:46
mordredthis is one of the few cases where I think the internet snark about our interests being too diverse would actually be appropriate20:46
rockygSo, defcore would still require glance.  Even if glare were there.20:46
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dimsttx : seems like the thread is saying, we can only add glare to governance only if you can be a replacement for glance20:46
rockygDoesn't mean it has to be used much, but it has to be accessible to use.20:46
mordredrockyg: I think if we wanted to propose replacing glance with glare we'd need to propose a plan to defcore and get everyone's buy in20:47
ttxrockyg: If you still need to run Glance, the pain/value proposition of adding Glare is limited20:47
smcginnisrockyg: I think that glare can be dropped in instead of glance and things still work.20:47
cdentsmcginnis: s/can/could with some changes/20:47
mordredI think IF glare can be dropped in in place of glance and things still work, THEN we can propose replacing one with the other20:47
edleafesmcginnis: if that's truly the case, then fine. But I really doubt they are there20:47
mordredif they cannot, that is a dead discussion20:47
edleafemordred: jinxish20:48
mordrededleafe: :)20:48
smcginniscdent: Preface my statement with "It would need to be able to be dropped in..." :)20:48
rockygYeah.  Until the glance *code* is removed from being required, it would still need to be there.  Board decision that is suggested to them by defcore20:48
mordredBUT - there is no reason that technical state cannot be achieved20:48
smcginnisI agree, they are not there yet.20:48
fungiif glare were decided on as a successor to glance and we just called it glance, then there's no defcore/interop issue20:48
rockygThere is a deprecation process in defcore, though.20:48
mordredrockyg: I agree - and I think that's a thing we can work through with the board/defcore20:48
ttxmordred: so are you saying that perfect compat is necessary for us to add them ? Or that if they say they will pursue it we should add them ?20:48
mordredbut I tihnk we're not even to the point of starting that conversation yet20:48
mordredbecause right now it's unpossible20:48
rockygAnd, remember, defcore is like 2+ releases behind where you guys are.20:49
mordredttx: I'm saying that THEY are claiming that they provide the value of being able to replace glance20:49
mordredI'm currently judging them on that standard since it's part of what they claim20:49
EmilienMmordred: I liked your request of the devstack job to test glare instead of glance and see results20:49
mordredI do not think it needs to be true for them to be added to governance20:49
mordredbut right now it's a claim20:49
mordredso I'm judging it20:49
fungimerge a change to glance that replaces the underlying implementation with one ported from glare (or turns it into a thin api shim) and defcore requirements are basically sidestepped. but i agree it's still tricky and assumes basically completely identical behavior20:49
EmilienMmordred: the answer would be binary and would confirm if yes/no we can replace it20:49
mordredEmilienM: exactly - or we, can confirm whether it's worth people's time to start the discussion with the board20:50
mtreinishmordred: fwiw, I'm like 100% sure it will fail tempest horribly if you point it at glare and say its glance20:50
mordredright now it's not worth bothering the defcore wg20:50
jeblairfungi: it would not be the first time we have done that20:50
dimsmtreinish : hey20:50
mordredmtreinish: I know for a fact that it will20:50
mordredI went and read the aPI20:50
mordredit is not compatible20:50
fungijeblair: this is true!20:50
mordredbut - an endpoint could be added that would be20:50
ttxSo it's a complex discussion, and I fear it will take time for us to reach a decision here. One issue is that Glare would like to join the PTG, which is in theory limited to official projects. Would you be happy with giving them a free ride ? If only because we could have those discussions at the PTG20:51
mordredand I'm happy to work with them on defining what that would need to look like20:51
fungianyway, i still believe that if they declare replacing glance as a primary goal of their project and we don't have a solid plan for making that possible then we shouldn't be making glare an official project team20:51
ttxfree ride = give Glare a PTG room20:51
mordredttx: I would be happy to discuss this topic with them at the PTG - and it would not bother me to have them there this time20:51
dimsttx : i am ok to give them the free ride to encourage them20:51
rockygmordred is right.  Not worth bothering InteropWG (defcorc) right now.  That's at least a year, more likely 1.5 or 2 out.20:51
dimssmcginnis : trying to get out of here :)20:52
edleaferockyg: mordred: +120:52
smcginnisdims: Hehe20:52
fungiwell, glare said they'd love to "present a session at the ptg" which suggests to me that they're still pretty disconnected from the community at large and don't have any context as to what the ptg is20:52
ttxFWIW We've been doing that at the past PTG as well -- give rooms to projects in the pipeline20:52
ttx(if we still have space)20:52
mordredyah- so let's get them there so they can see it - set up a time for them to talk witha few of us that have some good context on what this might look like20:52
smcginnisI think it would be worth having some time for them to pitch their case there.20:52
mordredand we should be ableto come out of that with a "this is a possible plan" or "wow, this is never going to work"20:52
smcginnisOr maybe even a glance time slot if they're willing to work it out.20:53
ttxdiablo_rojo: ^ we should add Glare if we can20:53
ttx(to the PTG)20:53
dimsmordred : i'd like to know how many folks are actively engaged in Glare and want to pursue this goal as well20:53
rockygI think InteropWG will also be there.20:53
fungiit sounds more like they want to present a proposal at the forum20:53
mordreddims: I agree20:53
smcginnisBased on the current Glance participation, I don't see them filling a room for a few days straight.20:53
ttxrockyg: yes!20:53
mordreddims: I think there are many things I'd like to dig in to on that topic :)20:53
dimsfor sure :)20:53
ttxsmcginnis: but since they are on the top 5 list, millions of devs will join!20:54
rockygttx, gotta double check, but I'll specifically ask tomorrow.20:54
smcginnisttx: I admire you're optimism. Or snark. Either one. :)20:54
ttx11pm optisnark20:54
diablo_rojottx, there is space since Karbor dropped out.20:54
ttxdiablo_rojo: deal.20:54
diablo_rojoI will update the spreadsheet :)20:54
dimsdiablo_rojo : ++20:54
ttxAlso some teams may drop if they realize they won't have enough people joining20:55
ttxOK, anything else, anyone ?20:55
dimsthat's it. good night ttx20:56
fungithanks for a productive meeting, ttx!20:56
ttxThanks everyone for attending20:56
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:56
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jul 11 20:56:41 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:56
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-07-11-20.01.html20:56
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-07-11-20.01.txt20:56
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2017/tc.2017-07-11-20.01.log.html20:56
cdentthanks ttx20:56
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fungianyone who's awake at 01:00 utc feel free to pop into #openstack-tc and help me not feel so lonely!20:58
EmilienMttx: thanks20:58
EmilienMfungi: yes I will be there20:58
EmilienMit's only 6pm for me20:58
oneswig#startmeeting scientific_wg21:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jul 11 21:00:42 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is oneswig. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)"21:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'scientific_wg'21:00
oneswighey hey hey21:00
oneswig#chair martial21:00
openstackCurrent chairs: martial oneswig21:01
oneswigHi bob21:01
martialHi Stig; I was not sure you were around :)21:01
oneswigHi hogepodge martial21:01
* cdent passes the bourbon on to this meeting21:01
* cdent waves21:01
oneswigCheers cdent :-)21:01
martial(I was checking the channel name to be safe :) )21:01
armstron_Hello everyone21:01
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oneswiggreetings armstron_21:01
oneswig#link Agenda for today is https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Scientific_working_group#IRC_Meeting_July_11th_201721:02
oneswigEvening priteau21:02
oneswigSo we have only a short agenda for today but a couple of useful items.21:02
oneswig#topic SC201721:02
*** openstack changes topic to "SC2017 (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)"21:02
oneswigHi lizhong, welcome21:02
oneswigSC2017 is the week after OpenStack Sydney21:03
oneswigCall in on your way home :-)21:03
trandleshi everyone21:03
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oneswigHi trandles21:03
trandlesoneswig: I'm planning on going to Sydney then straight on to SC17 before home21:03
trandlesif I can help with either21:03
oneswigLast year I think the books and stuff were pretty handy - thoughts anyone?21:03
martialstig: I will add an item to the agenda as #4 :)21:03
oneswigcan't wait!21:04
rbuddenagreed, the books were great21:04
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rbuddeni should be at SC as well and can help with booth/talks/books/etc.21:04
oneswighogepodge: is there a possibility for printing an update of the book, similar to last time?21:04
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oneswigcool - do you know how we can organize that?21:05
jmloweHi everybody21:05
oneswigHi jmlowe21:05
hogepodgeWe can't send staff this time, mainly because it's the week after the summit, but we want to support folks from the community who can go21:05
martialtrandles: lukcy you on Syndey -> Denver, as per our email discussion, I am in Limbo on that one for now21:05
oneswigLikely it'll be my colleague John from our gang, and I'll take Sydney21:06
trandlessounds lucky now, we'll see what state I'm in come mid-SC17 week ;)21:06
armstron_is it late to submit a paper to SC2017?21:06
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trandlesarmstron_: paper submission is well past :(21:06
oneswig#link deadlines for SC2017 are here https://submissions.supercomputing.org21:07
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oneswigI think it's gone but you can still do posters and BOFs21:07
martialhogepodge: I am going to check with GWU, I know they usually go and a past contributor of ours might go, maybe they can help21:07
jmloweDo you think we would be successful with another BoF?21:08
martialstig: George Washington University21:08
oneswigah ok, thanks21:08
armstrongOk I will prepare a poster21:08
jmloweI was under the impression they wanted year over year variety21:08
martialstig: a PhD student worked with us in the past21:08
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oneswigI think it's worth a shot.  Can't remember much about the BoF from last time - it was a blur.21:09
oneswigI do recall it was busy, and I do recall most people attending were planning to try openstack rather than actual users21:09
hogepodgeThe bof was well attended21:09
oneswigSo perhaps we should check in with them and see how they're getting on21:09
hogepodgemartial: great. Are there any organizing etherpads for the event?21:10
martialhogepodge: not yet, to my knowledge21:10
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martial#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/SWG-SC1721:11
martialCreated one :)21:11
oneswigThanks martial, on fire today :-)21:12
hogepodgeFor the books, I think we'll be writing with Denise. We should start soliciting for new content now21:12
martial#chair b1airo21:12
openstackCurrent chairs: b1airo martial oneswig21:12
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martialblair: I thought you were on vacation? :)21:12
hogepodgeKathy is on a leave of absence21:12
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oneswigG'day b1airo, how's the pancakes?21:13
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oneswighogepodge: OK thanks, can you get some deadlines from Denise we can work to?21:13
b1airoGetting started with a porridge entree oneswig21:13
hogepodgeWill do21:13
oneswigThanks hogepodge - that's BOF and books covered.  Anything else?21:14
jmloweI'm fairly confident I can get slots for booth talks again21:15
rbuddenjmlowe: +!21:15
oneswigjmlowe: that went pretty well, I remember some awesome demos :-)21:16
rbuddenare we planning more short talks again?21:16
jmloweI think rbudden also said he can get space21:16
martialI think we can demo the short talks at the Summit :)21:16
rbuddenyes, we can use the PSC booth as well21:16
b1airoRe. book, do we have any new sections possible or looking at a refresh of the existing?21:16
oneswigb1airo: If somebody who knows was to pick it up, I'm sure a federation chapter is within reach21:16
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jmloweI might be on the hook for doing a globus auth openid connect keystone federation21:17
oneswigOtherwise, some refresh is needed I'd guess21:17
oneswigjmlowe: I heard that, well volunteered :-)21:17
martialjim: lots of keywords there :)21:17
rbuddenI’m in the middle of an Ironic refresh Liberty -> Ocata at the moment, possible I could have refresh on that use case21:18
oneswigWhat we'd want to do is find someone else (eg, Nectar, CERN, etc) with a different case study, and combine them21:18
hogepodgeFederation chapter would be way cool21:18
oneswighogepodge: certainly would!21:18
martialI can talk to my colleague at NIST, Robert Bohn, who is involved in a Federation effort21:18
rbudden+1 on Federation21:18
rbuddenjmlowe: are we still going to attempt a federation setup at some point?21:19
martialhe was there in Boston and presented at the Open Research Cloud meeting21:19
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jmloweyeah, I'd like to21:19
oneswigOk, lets try to make it happen - hogepodge tell us by when21:19
rbuddenprobably not enough time to get it together for the book for SC, but just random thoughts ;)21:19
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martialjim: added an action item with your name on it on the Etherpad :)21:20
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oneswigany takers for filing the BoF submission?21:20
rbuddensure, I can take that21:21
b1airorbudden: do you have architecture diagrams of your setup between SLURM and OpenStack? I've described it to other HPC people who have been interested...21:21
oneswigIt's probably worth submitting from a widely spread group, to add some gravitas - but someone's got to stump up the wording21:21
oneswigb1airo: ooh, I'm doing some on that recently.21:22
b1airooneswig: suggest we start from last year's submission and update?21:22
martialbob: can you use the etherpad to draft the wording and let us know if you want us to add/extend ?21:22
oneswigGot heat stacks that'd make you scream21:22
rbuddenb1airo: we have some arch diagrams but i’m not sure they’re openstack related21:22
rbuddenmore networking, etc.21:22
rbuddenbut i’d be happy to talk to ppl that are interested in what it looks like21:22
jmloweI can go in with rbudden on the BoF21:22
oneswigb1airo: good idea on starting from last year.  er... anyone got a copy?21:23
b1airoI'm looking for stuff I can adapt into slideware for OpenStack+HPC talks21:23
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rbuddenstarting from last year’s submission would be great ;)21:23
oneswigb1airo: gotta mention the SKA if this is at Pawsey21:23
martialstig: I can also reach out to Mike to see if he can formalize his presentation at the last lighting talk into a book chapter21:23
b1airoI always tryvto talk about different ways of doing things but it's generally very hand wavy and I'd like to make it clearer for the HPC Advisory Council tal21:24
rbuddenb1airo: if you want to ping me offline we can chat about the setup21:24
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b1airothanks rbudden , will do21:24
oneswigb1airo: graphs are good for that kind of talk.  preferably with the axes labelled21:24
b1airoI'll find the BoF submission, let me right with Google Drive for a moment - if I don't come out can someone please call Anonymous to find me...21:25
b1airo*fight with21:25
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martialwhile blair is looking this up, should we see if there is anything else to discuss re: SC17?21:26
rbuddenthe few times we’ve been able it seems to be a hit21:27
rbuddeneven if it’s just informal21:27
rbuddeni don’t want to throw trandles under the bus ;)21:27
martialyou mean for the summit or sc17?21:27
oneswigI also added an item on booth space for lightning talks21:27
rbuddenunfortunately I don’t think i’m going to be able to acquire funding to get to Sydney :(21:28
martialbob: welcome to my club21:28
b1airoThey're just worried you won't return!21:29
martialbob: I would tell you that Mr Hoge was kind enough to remind me that the foundation has a travel aid21:29
martialnot sure if it would work, but it is worth trying if you are presenting21:29
rbuddenmartial: true, kinda forgot about that. i’d consider it, but would want to be presenting or something to put it to good use21:30
b1airoHere's the panel draft, I think we just adapted / used the same text...21:30
rbuddenyeah, not sure if i can make the presentation deadline, we’ll see21:30
oneswigMy instinct is an evening social at SC17 could be a big table (or two) for a meal and beers.21:30
oneswigGood job b1airo21:30
martial#link https://docs.google.com/document/d/19kjs_HQ2bQw4ydjqY6ECMSBlAq6w2N0BELrxHtSfzn0/edit?usp=drivesdk21:30
oneswigReminder: deadline for Sydney presentations is THIS FRIDAY21:30
martialstig: shoot21:31
rbuddenoneswig: ugh21:31
rbuddenthanks though, good to know21:31
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oneswigso plenty of time, right?  I've got three on the go!21:31
b1airoI haven't proposed anything myself but I think I'm featuring in three vendor submissions :-P21:32
* rbudden counts hours left to work on ironic/ocata and contemplates if sleep is futile ;)21:33
oneswig... nvidia, dell, mellanox?21:33
martialokay, 30 minutes to go and 3 topics left :)21:33
oneswigmartial: good point , which brings us to...21:33
armstron_how is the presentation evaluated? like conference papers?21:33
oneswig#topic Application catalog(ue) updates21:33
*** openstack changes topic to "Application catalog(ue) updates (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)"21:33
oneswigarmstron_: exactly like that - a review committee21:34
jmloweI'm sitting in the cloud and container image bof at PEARC right now21:34
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oneswigjmlowe: what's PEARC?21:34
jmloweit was the xsede conference but was renamed21:34
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trandlessorry, I stepped away for 10 mins...RE: social...ugh ;)21:35
oneswigtrandles: you've done your time on that!21:36
jmloweyeah, trandles you didn't say anything so you have to do the social again :)21:36
trandles+1 oneswig   -1 jmlowe21:36
armstrong oneswig: Thanks, I will be submitting a paper this Friday.21:36
oneswigah, for a united front21:36
trandlesthat said, we go to Denver several times a year, so I'm happy to make suggestions but organizing might be a step too far21:36
oneswigOK - app catalogues - there has been some recent discussion here21:36
martialtim: I think Jim was volunteering in truth :)21:37
oneswigSome interest because the OpenStack.org app store is going EOL and there may be a brighter future for scientific apps21:37
oneswigb1airo mentioned that Nectar have a well-stocked instance of Murano21:38
oneswigI think last week there was some interest from CERN21:38
oneswigEarlier tonight we deployed Murano on our Kolla dev system21:39
oneswigIs there a mechanism for sharing these things?21:39
oneswigrbudden: jmlowe: I recall you guys exchange apps for Murano, right?21:39
b1airoI think like Tim suggested, simply GitHub?21:39
oneswigjmlowe: just noticed you're in New Orleans.  Is this bof in a piano bar?21:40
oneswigb1airo: right, that makes sense21:40
rbuddenoneswig: not yet, that was the idea for an end goal of a proposal we have in21:40
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rbuddenjmlowe: that reminds me we should chat offline about the next steps with the PIF21:41
jmloweoh, nice, we are still waiting to get paid to make a well stocked catalog21:41
oneswigrbudden: jmlowe: in your experience, how portable are Murano apps?21:41
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jmloweoneswig: no, but they did chase us out of breakfast with a jazz band21:42
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rbuddenoneswig: i’m not sure how much we (i) can attest to the portability. what was largely done was a POC setup using devstack to flesh out the ideas of using Murano for OpenStack integration21:43
b1airoI guess they are similar to Heat templates, portability wise, with possible extra Murano version requirements21:43
oneswigI remember it sounded much fancier than that in the presentation abstract :-)21:44
rbuddenso we didn’t exactly test across OpenStack versions or even Murano version for that matter21:44
jmloweI definitely had trouble pulling the aps.openstack packages due to backing images21:44
rbuddenthink of the presentation as selling the idea ;) backed by some usage to show the idea was feasible :)21:44
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rbuddenin all honesty it was slightly more difficult than I originally imagined, but that have been due to my expectations going in21:45
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oneswigrbudden: I get it, might be something where the feasibility of sharing is learned through experience21:46
jmloweThis bof has some of it's roots in that talk, if we could convince our learned openstack colleagues, then we could sell this to xsede as a viable project21:46
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oneswig... anyone else in the room with jmlowe who can help out with that? :-)21:47
jmloweI think we both struggled with the ui elements, confirms my belief that I need to be kept away from end users21:47
oneswigI might be in the same boat on #scientific-wg come tomorrow21:47
oneswigOK, I'll gather these thoughts and follow up21:48
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oneswigshall we move on to the next topic - martial what have you got for us?21:48
martialstig: maybe follow up on this next week then21:48
martialstig: well there is topic #3 AOC unless I missed that?21:49
martialmake that AOB21:49
rbuddenoneswig: i’m not at PEARC but I’m in the same boat and can help jmlowe21:49
oneswigmartial: that's any other business - put it at the end21:49
martialahhh well then #4 is a #3 then21:50
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martial#topic Introducing Conducere and DMoni21:50
*** openstack changes topic to "Introducing Conducere and DMoni (Meeting topic: scientific_wg)"21:50
trandlesgotta run to another meeting folks, ttfn  o/21:50
martialSo after many things to clear, I am happy to give you a link to the software we promised for a bit21:50
martial#link https://github.com/usnistgov/Conducere Conducere21:51
martial#link https://github.com/usnistgov/DMoni DMoni21:51
martialLizhong, Maxime and Pooneet are here I believe, they helped make this release21:51
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martialit is still a little rough but it is public, and I know a few people have been interested to get their hands on it21:52
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martialso for those interested, please test it, let us know what you thing and how we can make it better and thank you for letting me announce it here :)21:52
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rbuddenapologies, i have to go AFK as well… little man just got back from daycare21:53
martialbob: no worries, thank you for spending time with us :)21:53
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martialas you can guess, I am very interested in knowing what people think :)21:53
oneswigmartial: looks great, I could start using conducere tomorrow!21:53
b1airoBye rbudden21:53
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martialstig: we welcome users and contributions obviously21:54
oneswighow does packer compare with disk-image-builder?21:55
martialstig: I was really worried that I would not be able to release it before this meeting, but I got the final okay late this morning, so we have scrambled to make it "finished"21:55
b1airoPacker came first?21:56
clarkboneswig: that came up in the infra channel earlier today in a different context. A big difference is dib lets you build one image and push it everywhere. packer is more snapshot based and has a dsl rather than just letting you execute code21:56
oneswigIn the heat templates, would I be able to provision groups of nodes of different types?  I was working on a problem earlier (in Dask) where a few nodes might need to be high memory, or example21:56
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oneswigclarkb: thanks, that's interesting21:57
martialI am not sure about Packer vs disk-image-builder21:57
jmloweok, BoF over gtg21:57
martialstig: I do not see why we could not mix flavors in heat21:57
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oneswigwe've been hacking on DIB, I'm interested to know the alternatives21:57
martialthanks clarkb21:58
oneswigHere's what we've been working on21:58
b1airoWe use Packer for Nectar "official" images, have had to resort to DIB for some Trove stuff21:58
oneswigand science-y image elments as extensions https://github.com/stackhpc/stackhpc-image-elements21:58
hogepodgeBefore the meeting end, word is book update may be too much of a lift for us with Kathy out. We're taking about it internally. Sorry to talk out of topic21:59
oneswighogepodge: OK thanks for the update.  A reprint might be manageable though?21:59
martialstig: sweet, I wonder if we can mix your solution with ours21:59
oneswigmartial: my thoughts exactly, I like the apps you've got going!21:59
lizhongStig: Packer can support multiple clould providers (OpenStack, AWS, etc.). Basically, it connenct to the cloud env to create an instance, do configurations and save it as a image to be reused.22:00
martialhogepodge: thanks for letting us know. We can still publish a PDF version if we have time22:00
oneswigwe are out of time, alas22:00
clarkblizhong: right, whereas dib you'd make a single image, convert to N output formats then use it wherever you like22:00
clarkblizhong: for us that is important because we can use the same image everywhere easily22:00
Maxime_@oneswig About the flavors, you should be able to customize it in the heat template22:01
oneswigMaxime_: today's case was 3 types of node in the topology.  Can I do that?22:01
oneswigI think there's some exciting potential here - thanks for sharing22:02
oneswigwe need to wind up the meeting.  Thanks everyone!22:02
martialstig: we can and will gladly follow up next time if welcome22:02
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"22:02
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jul 11 22:02:27 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)22:02
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2017/scientific_wg.2017-07-11-21.00.html22:02
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2017/scientific_wg.2017-07-11-21.00.txt22:02
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2017/scientific_wg.2017-07-11-21.00.log.html22:02
lizhongclarkb: that's a really good use case22:02
oneswigyes please martial22:02
martialall: feel free to reach to us with questions so we can try to be ready by then22:02
oneswigthanks all, good session22:02
martialthanks everybody22:03
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Maxime_@oneswig This template provides a way to bring up one master, n clients and m workers. Each group can have its flavor customized, so 3 different flavors is possible22:03
oneswigMaxime_: nice!  But tomorrow I will ask for 4, you know it :-)22:04
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Maxime_@oneswig Of course :-)22:04
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martialstig: bring it :)22:05
Maxime_@oneswig Thanks for bringing up this point22:06
martialare the minutes automatically generated? (I was trying to add them to the wiki page)22:06
oneswigThanks for sharing!  over and out (I'm adding minutes now martial)22:06
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